July 18, 2023 • 43 mins
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Imagine the possibilities if you could communicate with your pets as you do with a three-year-old child. Join us on this fascinating journey with our guest, Bryndon
, an experienced dog trainer known for his holistic and relationship-based approach. This episode is filled with insightful discussions about the importance of kindness in training and the power of positive reinforcement. Through Bryndon
expert guidance, we learn to see our pets as unique individuals, each with their own needs and emotions.
We'll unpack the concept of offering choice to our pets, rather than demanding obedience, and the impact this can have on our bond with them. Bryndon illuminates the topic of rewarding behavior, which not only promotes engagement but also stimulates the dopamine levels in our pets. We'll also underscore the vital role of consistency in achieving a positive relationship with our pets. Training, we'll discover, is not just about compliance but an opportunity for relationship building and improving communication.
Wrapping up, we'll delve into various strategies for managing pet behaviors. Bryndon shares valuable insights on the importance of managing the environment and limiting physical access as a means to prevent unwanted behaviors. Plus, we'll examine the power of choice in training and the need for mindfulness in our reactions to our pets' behavior. Get ready to redefine your relationship with your pets and elevate your pet parenting skills to a new level! Tune in for an episode that promises to be both enlightening and heartwarming.
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- Intensive Workshop: Strengthen Your Relationship With Your Pets with Kind Training - Register For The Intensive Workshop.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr Edward (00:25):
Okay, welcome everyone to this full episode of
the Pets.
I'm super excited to have withus now in our teaser episode.
I kind of messed up and said itwas only 2019 that took a
sharp turn from corporate worldto go into dog training.
It was actually 2009.
(00:46):
So Brendan's been playing withdogs in this way and training
dogs for a long time.
He's got a lot of livedexperience out there in the
trenches, so to speak, with allkinds of dogs with all kinds of
problems and helping them,making them changing their lives
(01:07):
.
He takes a really holistic,relationship-based approach to
behaviour modification, andthat's one of the things that I
really love about how Brendanworks is relationship positive
reinforcement techniques.
And, speaking of dogs, mitzi'scome to help us out here.
Hello, mitzi, he loves to geton the podcast and now I've got
(01:29):
my Wifit one in to come up too,so it's going to be dog centra
up here.
We've got dogs everywhere.
Bryndon Golya (01:35):
Oh, I love Mitzi.
Mitzi's food we're going tohave-.
No, mitzi's not happening.
Dr Edward (01:41):
You have to go over there mate, I've got my phone
with the two dogs and thecomputer and cameras everywhere.
So Mitzi's obviously got alittle sore spot under his tummy
where I picked him up.
I'll have to check that out ina minute.
Okay, this is Pets.
This is what happens on thispodcast.
Is that we have-?
Bryndon Golya (01:58):
I got one here too.
Dr Edward (01:59):
Animals all over the place.
So Mitzi's now been-.
I just have to give him a patbecause he's got-.
I was supposed to be in themiddle of things and now Pearl's
taken the primary spot becauseshe's 15 and a half.
That's what happens.
So the title of our podcasttoday is Strengthen your
Relationship With your PetsThrough Deeper Understanding.
And, brendan, the three pointswe're going to go through are
(02:22):
kindness as a training principle, using management and rewards,
and offering choice versusdemanding behavior from your dog
.
So let's dig into the first oneKindness is a training
principle.
How this inspires you.
Bryndon Golya (02:38):
You know this is not something I learned in a
textbook.
It wasn't something that was ina dog behavior course that I
took.
It's something that I'velearned over, I guess more and
more and more over a year of mylife and seen how it affects my
relationships, my own dog'srelationships between other
(03:02):
people.
And it does fit in with themanagement rewards and offering
choice as well, which the choicepart of it is something I've
probably put more attention toin the last three to five years,
mostly in the last three, andso the kindness that is an
aspect of that.
It's not being so demanding anddominant the word, a big D word
(03:27):
that we hear out there a lotbetween dogs and it's misused.
And there's a long history oftraining animals and people and
trying to figure out a way tocoerce them or get them to do
something that is beneficial forus or to be a part of our lives
(03:48):
, and traditionally, it seems,mostly we don't treat them as we
would our children or otherhuman beings that we would speak
of, even though we regard themso highly and we say that
they're like our children, yetwhen it comes down to it, we're
(04:08):
pretty demanding when we wantthem to do something, and this
is a species without dialoguebetween us.
This is they're never, we'renever.
Well, ai might have somethingto say about that at some point,
but right now we don't have anyreal way to communicate on the
fly with them as we would liketo.
We can learn about that I mean,we can get better at it but
(04:32):
it's not our naturalcommunication.
And so it's a challenge andthat's why there's difficulty
between the humans and the dogs,and so we expect certain
behaviors out of them or them tofit in certain ways, like I
mentioned before, and I thinkrealistically it's not
reasonable for what we expect.
(04:53):
But as far as how we interactwith them, I've found and I know
a lot of people have found thatif we give them the benefit of
the doubt again, use rewardsInstead of punishers, maybe
don't force them into positionswhich they don't like and
consider hey listen, why are mydogs, why is this dog having a
(05:16):
hard time, versus just beingmean or grumpy or aggressive or
anxious?
And so when I reframe things alot, I try to always say no,
your dog is having a hard time.
It's obvious.
Regardless of what behavior ishappening, he's having a hard
time.
How would you treat this if itwas your three-year-old kid?
And let me put it differently.
(05:39):
Let me say let's say you justgot this dog and let's say that
dog doesn't speak your language.
Let's say you happen to take ina refugee from a different
country, maybe Ukraine, whoknows just as timely, and that
child doesn't speak yourlanguage, has a different
culture, has a different history, has some trauma, and I mean
(06:02):
they're going to have somestruggles fitting into your
culture, your lifestyle, yourroutine, very much like a dog
would.
And most of the time they'rehaving a hard time and they
don't know how to tell you otherthan with their eyes, with
their facial expression, withtheir body language, with their
behavior, which may beaggravating or frustrating.
But the reality is there'ssomething to be figured out and
the dog doesn't know how toconvey that to you.
(06:23):
Most likely, and this is in alot of the scenarios I work with
, the dog doesn't know what elseto do and the humans are out of
ideas and we have to leap toconclusions and when we're out
of ideas we kind of go with whatwe've been told or what we see
on TV or Instagram and that is,make your dog do this, and it's
(06:44):
not always the most fun thingfor the dog.
It doesn't even make sense halfthe time while we're asking our
dog to lay down, or it's justsilly sometimes.
So I guess, when I to come backto it all, I want people to be
more to me, more thoughtful, andkind of take a pause, take a
breath and say all right, Idon't really know why my dog is
(07:04):
acting this way, but it'sprobably not because he's
dominant, mean alpha possessive,push, I mean he's.
There's so many other things.
That probably is.
Dr Edward (07:14):
Let's talk a little bit about that, because you know
, if you've ever worked anotherthing that I've been said to
people if you ever worked for aboss who is dominating and micro
managing- I have.
Bryndon Golya (07:26):
Yeah, I left that job and I've been here with Doc
Schreiner.
Dr Edward (07:29):
Did you enjoy it and how did it feel to have someone
kind of bullying you all thetime?
Oh, I mean.
Bryndon Golya (07:38):
I, I've never liked that I, I I've always been
a of the type that just doesn't, you know, like being told what
to do and likes freedom andlikes to be expressive, you know
, might be more artistic andcreative and needs space and is
hard to hard to fit into a rigid, you know, format.
And I think that's a lot ofdogs, you know, even if it's
(07:58):
just half I think that's enough.
It's.
You know it's.
There's plenty of dogs that canfit into a lot of ease, a lot
of lifestyles, and you know we,we expect every dog to do that.
But reality is there's just,we're just, it's just too
demanding and we expect too muchof our dogs.
Like I was mentioning before,we put our dogs in positions of
deprivation most of the day andnight, either in a crate kennel
(08:20):
or without anybody.
We feed them out of a bowl, likewe do for some reason, and it
may sit there all day.
It may be gone in three minutes, and then what?
And then we might take them outonce a day If you're lucky.
You know some people get outtwo or three times, but you know
it's probably once or twice andit's probably less than 30
minutes and in the event thatit's not, it's probably walking
(08:41):
to a destination that you wantto go to.
That doesn't enrich their livesand it's at a pace that's ideal
for the human and they miss alot along the way.
So there's a lot of stuff thatwe just expect out of our dogs
which comes back into, you know,offering choice and so forth
and more rewards, and there'ssome basic, really easy rewards
you can add to our dogs livesthat I think are simple enough.
(09:03):
And I know they're simplebecause people have done them,
taken my advice and and theirdog's behaviors change
relatively quickly and it's notdrastic, it's not hard, it's not
technical Simple things to makebig differences.
Dr Edward (09:16):
Okay.
So when we're talking aboutsimple things that make big
differences, what kinds ofrewards?
You know?
Positive reinforcement.
Well, let's, before we go intothat we're going to go into more
practicalities in the secondhalf of this interview but maybe
explain to us a bit about whatpositive reinforcement is and
(09:36):
why it's a beautiful, kind wayto inspire your dogs to want to
work with you and do the desiredthings.
Bryndon Golya (09:44):
Well, I'd say overall, it's probably the
preferred choice of interactionbetween everybody here.
Watching this, every organismseems to be like to be rewarded
versus punished.
It's just, it's a motivation,like punishment is, but it seems
to not have the side effects orissues of punishment per se.
There are other side effects oftoo much rewards, too often and
(10:04):
so forth.
But realistically like, if youwant to motivate your dog, your
husband, your wife, any friendof yours, it's advised to
probably tell them how much youlike them, show that to them
when they're doing somethingthat you like and likely they're
going to remember that and wantto do that for you again
because it was so rewarding forthem.
If you do that more than you do, correct them and tell them
(10:28):
what's wrong or add pressure,their emotions are generally
better around you and they'regoing to want to compliment you
or be a part of your life more.
So.
That relationship is there whenyou start to think about
positive.
What can I add good to thesituation?
When can I add it?
Where do I add it?
How frequently do I add it, youknow, and so forth, and that's
(10:52):
as technical as it really has toget to some degree.
You just need to do more of it,be consistent enough, because
most people are not, and, withthat, use management which we
talked about to prevent unwantedbehavior.
If we can really lay on themanagement, and I mean like
really early on, so we don'tdevelop problems and
(11:13):
misunderstandings and boundaryissues, then what you'd like, if
you do it well, is just reward,reward, reward for the most
part, okay.
Dr Edward (11:21):
So so rewards are something that is enjoyable or
pleasurable, something that isdesired yeah, if we want to get
really kind of high level matterabout it and it's something.
What does a positive reward doin terms of the physiology and
(11:43):
the mental, emotional state ofbeing of dogs?
Do you think?
Bryndon Golya (11:48):
Well, it does increase focus.
Dopamine is part of that.
Engagement increases engagementdrive and so forth.
So if you're looking to getyour dog more motivated and more
focused on something, then Ithink using that will be the
best method.
Contrarily, if you usepunishment, it does the exact
opposite.
Dogs don't offer behavior.
(12:10):
As much Stress, hormones,cortisol, adrenaline rise.
They don't come back down forsome time.
You know it's not ideal, andthen dogs don't learn well when
they're stressed period.
None of us do when we'restressed or fearful or concerned
.
We just don't retain knowledgevery well at all and so I don't
recommend that.
But yeah, it does.
(12:30):
It builds a relationship and afeeling and a memory and that is
the best.
I think that's exactly what Iwant for everybody is a feeling
of what training is like,because you can't train just the
behavior.
You're always training abehavior and training how to
feel.
Dr Edward (12:51):
I suppose too, you could reframe training to become
relationship building andcommunication and in a
relationship each wants toplease the other right and you
want to work together and youwant to have a bond and
inspiration and connection.
Bryndon Golya (13:11):
I think that's true.
I think the label training issomething we might want to
reconsider because it does evokea certain context of what that
looks like in our head, Maybeeven past experiences, training,
having a challenge and tryingto overcome a challenge.
But yeah, if you're thinkingabout relationship building as a
(13:33):
method for interest and followthrough and presence, I think
that's a good way to look at it.
I mean, I often have the sameconversation with my clients and
use their relationship as ananalogy to their dogs and use
mine, because I mean, thelong-term relationship have been
in the few and that's kind ofmy thing, and they wouldn't be
(13:54):
long-term or this wouldn't belong-term if I didn't put a lot
of work into it.
And I've learned that it's alot of being present, being
consistent, adding value, Um,turning towards them and conf
and finding a way to solveproblems together.
And if I don't put the time inwith my relationship, I'm going
(14:16):
to have a struggle of conflictand we're going to kind of
probably divulge into being meanor you know and not and not use
the, the, you know the tools wehave.
So I think it's this it'sthat's really helped me with my
dogs and back and forth.
I've learned that they're very,very similar yeah.
Dr Edward (14:33):
Well, certainly you know my, my experience with
animals and and I I grew up on aon a cattle property.
I ranch here in Australia whereanimals were not treated kindly
.
You know there was a lot ofvery forceful, painful, um
aversive, flat out, brutal andhorrible things Um that I
learned how to do and I've hadto unlearn a lot of that.
(14:55):
So I think one of the things inthere there is a stack of
evidence for this is thatanytime you start using negative
reinforcement, aversives,painful, fearful stimuli to to
make an animal do something yeah, you know I I believe two
things happen.
One is that you damage therelationship and bond with your
animal.
And number two is you causetrauma which sets the nervous
(15:18):
system gets sensitized intosympathetic, dominant,
adrenalized, and and then youranimals can't learn and and they
, their behavior tends to, to,to, to deteriorate and be less
desirable for us humans, right?
Bryndon Golya (15:31):
It does, yeah, and I and I and I'm no, uh, I
mean I'm.
I've had my own experienceusing aversive methods and you
know I didn't start out knowingeverything I do today and I
probably started out what youcall a balanced trainer, really
loving the idea of positivereinforcement, really delving
into it but at the same time,seeing how punishment works and,
(15:53):
unfortunately, being good at it.
I am a really fast reactiveperson.
I have the skill set to be agreat punishment trainer.
I just learned over time and alot of dogs who told me that
this is not working and then,once I learned that they're how
they're communicating, I couldsee what they're trying to tell
me and like, this is not what Iwant to go home with.
Yeah, and I don't want.
(16:15):
I don't want that, that feelingmyself, um and and and.
To be fair, I don't want to saythat all punishment or negative
reinforcement, from myperspective, is purely bad and
it's and it's ineffective.
It is very effective, but it'sit's.
I want to teach people how tobe mean to their dogs.
Dr Edward (16:33):
No, well, there's.
There's the essence of it isright, it's more I want to teach
people how to be mean to theirdog, which is what aversives
really is at the core.
Now, a dog might find yousetting setting a boundary
somewhat aversive, but that'shealthy for the whole
relationship overall and thatthat's a different thing too,
right.
Bryndon Golya (16:53):
Your dog is going to pull on leash and you're
going to hold on to the leashand when they're done pulling,
you're probably going to walkthem.
It's negative reinforcement,yeah, but what else are you
going to do?
Let your dog run down thestreet after the squirrel.
So I mean, yeah, it's part oflife.
Uh, waiting in traffic waiting,waiting in traffic every day
here in California is very, veryaversive and in the feeling of
getting out of it's amazing.
So there's something to be saidfor the.
(17:15):
You know the the negativereinforcement if it's used
correctly.
But it should not be yourprimary method and you really
need to Use it in a limitedfashion, as because it does
involve positive punishmentfirst, which most people don't
use Absolutely.
Dr Edward (17:30):
And you know, if you have that principle of kindness
that is going to inform any kindof occasional, necessary
negative reinforcement, then howare you going to do that?
It's going to be totallydifferent anyway.
Um so management how do youdefine management, and and
limiting and what's limiting?
Bryndon Golya (17:49):
usually limiting access is the first way I would
look at it.
Um to anything so far away.
You know your home ismanagement.
You bring your puppy from theoutside in.
You've got walls, you've gotdoors, you've got everything
that we have, that you know,stairs, et cetera.
And so to avoid problembehavior, we can predict dogs do
(18:09):
certain things Dogs like food,dogs like people, dogs liked
play.
Um, dogs like to see things,like to be stimulated.
So a lot of this might be,let's say, looking out of a
window uh, dogs barking out of awindow all day long when you're
gone, practicing barking andpracticing driving people away,
only to feel successful.
Dr Edward (18:29):
Yeah, and getting the inevitable success that every
time they bug, at the moment hegoes away.
The ultimate reinforcer.
Bryndon Golya (18:34):
Yeah, ultimate reinforcer Um and and so and
that's negative reinforcementtechnically but uh, it does
increase behavior, the barkingrapidly in some cases.
So you know, that's one ofthose where, like, you need to
either cover your blinds, youneed to tint the windows or you
need to remove the couch frombehind the window and that is
(18:55):
technically the antecedent ofthe behavior.
The driver is access.
And that's actually the one ofthe first things I look to
before I do any training is whatcan I limit to minimize the
expression of this behavior?
Dr Edward (19:07):
Um, okay, that's a.
That's an interesting principle.
What can I limit to reduce theexpression of undesirable
behaviors in in the dog's life,that's?
Bryndon Golya (19:17):
that's not going to compromise, of course, their
wellbeing, but this is right,it's a harder time adjusting and
you have to make thoseadjustments based on the dog and
your understanding and and whatyou can come up with creatively
.
But I have three dogs right now.
Um, they're all small dogs.
They're you know, they're easyto manage.
But I have one who's my oldestand she has a resource guarding
(19:38):
history Nothing that's evercaused damage, but it's not fair
to my other ones who aresmaller or more vulnerable.
So, very simply, I could createher.
I create her it when she eats.
The other ones are free atdifferent areas.
They're not near each othereither, but I trained her to
tolerate a crate.
She likes the crate, she has agreat time in there and because
she's in there, we're all safe.
Everybody have no worrieswhatsoever.
(20:00):
Otherwise, 90, 95% of the timewe're fine also, but 5% of the
time there's a screaming matchand somebody's vulnerable and
takes, taken advantage of, andthat's just not okay.
Dr Edward (20:10):
So, yeah, yeah, so you, you're managing, that's
management, that's management.
Through managing theenvironment and other stimuli.
Okay, so we've got through kindof the first phase of this
podcast, which is ideas, talkingabout ideas and philosophies
and things like that.
We're going to take a littlefive minute interlude here that
every time we do one of theseepisodes we ask our guests
(20:35):
what's your?
Something that you do in yourlife for self care that you can
share with us in five minutes,the most effective thing that
helps you be happier andhealthier.
Bryndon Golya (20:47):
I'll share two things because they're not
interchangeable.
I'll go with a little bit ofhistory For quick.
I have Tourette syndrome.
I have a little anxiety once ina while, I get highly aroused
and very easy to arouse, and soI need to settle down.
Sometimes I also talk a lot,which you can tell, and I don't
get enough oxygen, probablybecause of that, and so I need
(21:10):
to notice and notice when my I'mfeeling a certain way inside a
certain tension, heart rate,breath rate.
There's just something I'venoticed in my body that says you
know what, if you do this toolong, you might hit your
threshold and then you mightreact in a certain way, just
like your dog, and you might notmean it, but those triggers, as
minor as they are, even goodones.
(21:31):
Public speaking for two hours,I loved it, but I, you know I
didn't address my ticks, myTourettes, and I'm you know.
So I need to settle down andreevaluate myself, and so with
that I have breathing techniquesthat I love to share.
Right, I practice daily, I don'tknow how many times a day, but
it's whenever I need it, andthose are typically two kinds.
(21:52):
One is called box breathing, soI'll demonstrate real quick.
Usually it's starting with anexhale to get all the air out
and then a probably a five toseven second inhale, ideally
through the nose, if you don'thave clogged nose, and then hold
five to seven seconds, slowly,exhale five to seven seconds.
(22:12):
Basically it's five to seven,five to seven, five to seven and
then, once you're out of breath, about three to five maybe
seconds of no breath whatsoeverand then it starts a progression
again.
The other breathing techniquethat I use and I'll do that for
five to 10 minutes, I'll go fromcompletely stressed out.
Dr Edward (22:30):
I'm just doing it right now and I can feel a
settling and my nervous systemoh, that's kind of nice.
Bryndon Golya (22:36):
And you can increase the length of time
gradually.
You don't have to start out.
If you're stressed at five toseven seconds, you could go
inhale five seconds, hold threeseconds, exhale, you know, five
seconds, maybe one or twoseconds at the bottom, and then
build up once you're kind ofstable to five to seven, maybe
10 seconds and just go with whatyou're comfortable with.
Dr Edward (22:58):
That's the point and you know, all the while you're
listening, play around with this.
Start maybe three seconds inpause, three seconds out three
seconds.
Yeah, pause, three seconds inthree seconds, just to get a
feel of it in your body whileyou're listening.
Because it's I want people.
One of the things about thispodcast is I don't want you just
to listen to it and do nothing.
I want you to learn somethingand take something into your
(23:19):
life.
And this breathing techniquewell, if you do it regularly
during the day, it'll reset yournervous system in a really
profound way.
Bryndon Golya (23:28):
Two more suggestions.
One, do this, laying down, ifyou can, so your body's taken
out of it, you're not trying tobalance and use your musculature
.
Take the senses out If you cango into a darker room or just
put something over your eyes.
A lot of times our eyes keep usin a certain state, from what I
can tell, and if I close myeyes I am much faster, I lose
track of what I'm thinking aboutand I can finally focus on
(23:50):
myself without all the extrastimulation.
That seems to be more helpful.
And then the last breathingtechnique that I use I've
learned recently.
I guess it's called aphysiological sigh, and we all
do this without even knowing it.
We do it when we're asleep, wedo it throughout the day, our
animals do it, you can watchthem and when we're tired or low
(24:12):
on oxygen we will inhale againjust through the nose, slow at
the end and then deep again,five to seven seconds, but it's
two inhales.
It's then the exhale or throughthe nose, whatever is easiest
for you.
Supposedly that helps us ridour bodies of CO2 much faster
(24:37):
and get more oxygen to ourbodies.
Dr Edward (24:39):
And you know you're either listening to us you
probably hear a little change inthe tone of our voice because
we've been doing this practicein the middle of this episode
that we're recording now, andyou know my invitation for you
is what we're gonna do next inthis podcast episode is we're
gonna dig into some practicalexpression of things you can do
(24:59):
with your animals in terms ofexpressing kindness, offering
choice first, demanding behavior, which, and management and
rewards.
But while you're listening,just maybe play around with
doing that box, breathing whileyou're listening, and notice the
changes in your body, becauseone thing that I've noticed with
(25:20):
my work with animals is themore that I care for myself and
the better I get into a grounded, relaxed state, the better my
dogs behave, invariably.
Bryndon Golya (25:30):
That's my secret too.
That's why I've learned this.
It's up to me to set an exampleof the what energy, what
behavior, what I'm saying.
I tend to swear or cuss or bemore erratic when I'm in that
state, and my dogs also pick upon those cues.
Not that I have it in mind andnot that I'm angry at my dogs.
It could be the internet, itcould be anything, it could be a
(25:53):
25 robot, text calls orwhatever, but it's just.
You know when you need to takecare of yourself, like you said
at first.
So I put a lot of thesepractices in place, basically so
I can be better for others,including my dogs.
Dr Edward (26:07):
Awesome.
So let's dig into some hands-onapplications of what we're
talking about today, which isstrengthening your relationship
with your pets through deeperunderstanding.
So how do you express kindnessin what we're calling it
training, but it's reallyrelationship building and
learning together how to livetogether and modify our behavior
(26:28):
so that we can be a pack, youknow, with animals.
Bryndon Golya (26:33):
Yeah, I mean kindness is a practice that is
all day, you know it starts with.
I mean every interaction withour pet has an opportunity for
some kind of kindness.
It's how we pick them up, youknow.
I mean that we say, hey, listen, I know you have some sensitive
inner castles in your ribs.
Maybe I should be careful, or Iknow you.
Dr Edward (26:52):
I wasn't quite aware that he was quite so sensitive.
Bryndon Golya (26:55):
I wasn't judging you either, I was just talking
to my head, because it happensto my dogs too.
Dr Edward (27:00):
I feel a little odd about that actually.
Then I picked him up and he'slike oh, that's really so good.
I'm so sorry.
Bryndon Golya (27:08):
Yeah, I have old pets and I have to be careful of
how they're feeling.
They feel different from day today, and so I try to feel them
out and see what's best for them.
One likes to be held close soshe's secure.
One likes to have her bottomheld a certain way.
One likes to perch.
They might have.
They have spinal differences,and so I'm just trying to kind
of identify what's the best wayto interact with them when they
like to be pet.
(27:29):
Where they don't like to be pet, why am I petting them?
Am I bugging my pets?
Am I doing it selfishly, for myown needs?
Dr Edward (27:35):
That happens a lot with me.
Bryndon Golya (27:37):
That happens often.
I'm very wanted to be in mypets, in their face, and when
they're sleeping they're thecutest.
But, man, can you imagine beingwoken up every four minutes
because you want them to?
Dr Edward (27:47):
have any love on your face.
Bryndon Golya (27:49):
It's something I think about.
So that's one of the ways Iexpress kindness.
I let them sleep.
When I see them doing the rightthing, I walk up and I offer
them a treat.
I have stations where I keepfood around.
I'll just grab it and drop itoff where I like them doing the
right behavior.
I don't make them, I don'tforce them into situations I can
see they're not into.
I mean, I like them to sit andlook at me for things, but if
(28:11):
they object once in a while, Isay okay, why are you not doing
this?
Sometimes?
Is there a really valid reasonwhy I'm doing this or is it my
routine?
Yeah, I see this a lot actuallywith this is one that's kind of
a pee.
But I see with a lot of ownersand I see it on busy curbsides,
at street corners, where it'sterrifying, and they're forcing
(28:33):
their dog into a sit and, likeman, that dog is scared shitless
, excuse me and it doesn't wantto for a very good reason.
Dr Edward (28:41):
Yeah, because he's aroused, he's in a really
sympathetic, dominant state ofbeing and his brain is turned
off and he needs to be up on hisfeet because he feels like he's
got to run away, because he'sscary things.
And then you've got this bighand coming.
Bryndon Golya (28:55):
Sit down.
I've seen it in my own dogbecause there is a dog behind
her giving her a very nasty lookand I had asked her.
I was actually photographing agroup of dogs and people and my
dog was in there and I said down, and she wouldn't.
I was like she was telling meno, straight up, I'm not doing
that.
And there was a German shepherdbehind her giving her nasty
(29:16):
look that I didn't see becauseof behind a person and come to
find out.
That's why she was like I don'twant to be vulnerable.
This dog was too close to me.
I went a way out in case, andso there's a lot of reasons.
I found that my dogs are righta lot of the time.
Dr Edward (29:29):
Oh look, and you know , sometimes with Mitzi it's just
like dude, I don't want to dothat, so I'm not gonna.
And I really like dogs thatoccasionally.
Just I asked him to dosomething.
It's like I want to see you.
Bryndon Golya (29:43):
Why would they have to have a?
Why do they have to be robots?
You know what is that?
I mean?
Why everybody has to object toyou once in a while, otherwise
it's it's not real life.
So you should look out for thatin your pet and say, hey, look,
they don't want to.
Why, what does it matter?
What do they can't?
They just stand there and lookat you, you know, and is that
(30:03):
not okay to receive love andaffection?
Or do they have to be to sit?
And that sit might be in a hardor a slippery surface, like a
lot of the houses out here,where the legs play out and it
causes stress on the body and Idon't want a dog to sit like
that.
I don't want to force agreyhound with a long spine to
sit.
Dr Edward (30:21):
I had a staffy once who, in winter we had cement
tile floors and the only placeyou would sit was on your foot
because you didn't like puttinga backside on the cold floor one
little bit.
Bryndon Golya (30:31):
Right.
Dr Edward (30:32):
So let's move into offering choice versus demanding
behavior, because we're kind ofstarting to edge into talking
about that anyway, aren't we?
Bryndon Golya (30:40):
We are, and that's it's a perfect fit for
where I'm going, because that isalso that choice, and today I
experienced that a little bit.
I was walking my dogs and sothe sun's coming in my eyes over
here as the sun changes.
But I was walking my dogs todayand you know I really had a lot
to do.
I had a lot going on today, butI was like you know what you
(31:01):
guys need to go out together andyou know if you don't, we're
probably not going to get itdone later or be to rush.
I took them out and I'mwatching my dogs and, to be fair
, this is pretty common, for Idon't take my dogs to anywhere.
It's not I'm not going to walkthem Like to a place, or it's
not for certain amount of timeor it's not for exercise, it's
just to get some enrichment.
They want to run, they want todo, can do that.
(31:23):
So most of the time I'm lettingthem lead.
I mean, I'm letting them decidewhere they want to go, as long
as it's not gonna end up being aproblem Whether it's not
something wrong with that areaor that's not incompatible with
yet yeah, their comfort level is, and so you know I I wanted to
go back home and they're likeyou know what?
I want to go smell this way,like I have no idea what's that
way.
It's something amazing.
There was that they grabbed aspot for the next five minutes
(31:44):
and they're loving it.
But you know, I could have saidno, we're going this way because
I want to go home.
I'm like a lot of people mighthave.
I'm like, instead, I said youknow you can smell out here
longer, go when you want.
I don't know what you'resmelling like.
Yeah, I can't tell you what'sgood or what's not.
I can just say, you know, ifyou're enjoying it, the worst
thing that happens.
I just sit out here and waitfor you for a little bit longer.
But I know when you go home youmight be a little bit happier.
You know you might be sleepinglike they are right now, because
(32:07):
they have their needs met tosome extent, more than I Would
have if I decided what was bestfor them.
You know I need to walk youAnother half a mile, or I, you
know whatever.
Maybe.
Yeah, pass all this.
Dr Edward (32:19):
Yeah, and I suppose to you know.
I think you can bring it backto yourself.
You know, though, those of youwho are listening, how much do
you like to have choice andagency in your life, and how
much do you like to be reallycontrolled and made to do Things
that you don't want to do?
You know, because your dogshave feelings just like you, and
the more you realize that, themore you're gonna start to
(32:42):
change how you interact withthem.
In little ways, I think it ismy primary reinforcer.
Bryndon Golya (32:47):
Let's put it that way choice is absolutely my.
What drives me the most when Ifeel like I'm limited, I have
anxiety and I don't like thatfeeling.
So I can only imagine how itfeels for others who can't
communicate.
They're there, I guess, theposition they're in, and not
being able to find anotheravenue to fulfill themselves.
So, yeah, I think choice isabsolutely crucial.
(33:09):
Is probably, should you know,be then be one of the top things
we consider.
Not that we can afford that allthe time, but we don't do that
for anybody all the time.
Dr Edward (33:18):
When it comes now, we do need to demand some
behaviors from our dogs forsafety, for you know,
cleanliness and not messing inthe house and stuff like that.
So how do you go aboutapproaching Necessary, demanding
a behavior when, when you withyour dogs and when you're
working with clients dogs?
Bryndon Golya (33:40):
There's this.
This is where there's a littlebit of a gray area.
How much can you tolerate, howmuch can you ignore?
I mean, I'd say it's a practicebehavior, it's a learned
behavior.
Most people aren't very good atignoring their pets there.
They respond to them Just likethey would people, and it seems
to contribute to problemsbecause it's attention and
reinforcement, and so I thinkyou know there's a there's a
(34:02):
line where it's like you knowthere's.
They may demand and want things, and that's probably just
something I need to fix laterChange my scheduling for the day
, feed different times, use moreenrichment, walk more.
It's usually a symptom ofsomething I haven't done already
.
But, either way, what I you can, I guess, when it comes down to
(34:24):
certain things, you don't haveto respond to everything you can
let.
If you and if you trainproperly, let's put this way if
you use positive reinforcementprimarily, and not punishment,
your dogs tend to offer optionsto you.
They'll show you something elsethey're they're interested in.
They won't just sit there.
So they may say, alright, if Ican't have this, maybe I'll do
(34:46):
this for this.
I've already trained you how todo these things.
They're like well, you know,you train me how to go to a mat.
Alright, well, if I, instead ofbarking here and jumping on you
, I noticed that mats over there.
Still, if you ignore me longenough, I might try something
else that you taught me and andthat's that's still choice.
I'm just not responding to thefirst thing I'm get.
I've given you choice alreadyand now you've walked over to
(35:07):
the carpet laid down.
Oh, good decision, nice, I likethat.
You changed your mind.
I'm now want to meet you here.
So there's, that's a little bitof choice.
And I guess I should say but Imean with food, if, if you know
that pets don't want, or my dogsdon't want to eat a certain way
, I'll give it to them adifferent way If they don't like
him.
(35:27):
You know something else I'mdoing.
I'll say I, we're not doingthat, we're not gonna play that
game today, but it doesn't, yeah, but when they.
But there's a, there's a pointwhere I won't.
I know that.
There's a point where I, if I,if I respond too much To demand
behavior, that I'm part of theproblem as well.
I have to find other solutionsso that they don't feel it need
to.
Dr Edward (35:44):
So well, I suppose there's two kinds of ways we can
look at demanding behavior towe can.
We can demand that dogs behavein certain ways in Certain
contexts for a range of reasons,but dogs are extraordinarily
demanding in what they ask ofhumans and they're
extraordinarily determined andthey're Incredibly good at
reading human body language.
(36:05):
So if if you don't mean it inyour body, they're just gonna
ignore you no matter what yousay.
Bryndon Golya (36:10):
That is true.
Yeah, a body language issomething people aren't very
keen on, it seems like, butthey're using it all the time.
So, yeah, yeah it's, it's allover your face, it's in your
posture, it's in your breathing,really in your breathing.
People hold their breath whenthey're nervous, when they're
scared, when they're tense.
Dogs feel that they hear thatyour behavior translates Just
(36:33):
down, like from your mind.
So people use.
It's one of those things.
People.
People use word energy a lotand I like the, the word itself,
but it's misleading, is, it's akind of ethereal Energy is
definitely real, but it's andI'm sure animals can.
We can all sense that, butthere's an obvious amount of
behavior that happens Morbidlywith this energy.
You know tightening, tensingposture.
(36:56):
You know facial expressionsyeah, tightening of mouth, big
eyes blinking pupil dilation andheart rate.
Heart rate is a big one foranimal.
Dr Edward (37:07):
Your smell changes.
When you smell changes, yeah,we can't we can't change that.
Bryndon Golya (37:12):
But you know, there there's a lot of stuff
going on that we're we're notreally aware of as far as what
our animals are reading andresponding to.
Dr Edward (37:19):
So Okay, so let's just touch on On management
again.
Yeah sure, before we go to that, you know, I actually think
it's it's fine not to give dogswhat they want.
I think it builds resilienceand if you let them work through
frustration and don't oversoothe and Panda to them too
(37:42):
much, I think that can actuallybe really good for emotional,
mental resilience over time.
I agree.
Bryndon Golya (37:48):
I totally I agree with that and I think it's hard
to do, which I think it's agreat skill to acquire.
The ability is to know you'renot hurting your dog and they're
not screaming in pain.
They're just, you know, actinglike a child and you've given
them a certain set of skills anda certain amount of limitations
to communicate, and that's whatwe have, and so sometimes you
(38:10):
let it go and they just Getthrough it.
Dr Edward (38:14):
Yeah, they work their way through it and that that's
kind of important too.
But management do you haveanything else practical you can
talk about with managementbefore we wrap this up?
Bryndon Golya (38:24):
Think about all the all the way was using
manager.
I'll say this Because there's alot of options that go down,
but something that's overlookeda lot that is, and something
that's looked at down upon quitea bit, are mussels, and I would
say this I am a big proponentof mussels that are conditioned
(38:45):
properly.
They're a great skill to havebefore you need it.
So I like the idea of musseltraining or feeding out of
mussels for pets who don't needit at an early age, even in
puppyhood.
Dr Edward (38:58):
Yep, and I think what you're saying here is that you
want to make it.
So the dog thinks oh, here's amussel, that's cool, put that
thing on this is awesome Right.
Bryndon Golya (39:08):
Totally.
That's exactly my point.
So I think, getting ahead ofthat, making it a positive,
making a positive associationwith it, having a good emotion
contextual to the device so thatit's not a stressor.
That way in the future, if youneed it for any reason, you
could be traveling.
There could be a naturaldisaster.
Your pet isn't safe out andabout, maybe you couldn't kennel
(39:29):
him, maybe your dog doesdevelop aggression for some
reason.
It could be from pain, it couldbe from anxiety, it could be
from any number of reasons andthe easiest way to prevent that
is a mussel in a lot of cases,without having to go deep into
training and behavior work andanesthetian arrangement and so
(39:49):
forth and environmentalmanagement.
The easiest thing to manageusually is the mouth, but it's
very challenging and stressfuland can add to the aggression or
frustration if we don't do itahead of time.
So don't look at dogs withmussels as dangerous.
Look at them as the safest dogsaround you, probably.
Dr Edward (40:07):
Yeah, and this is a kind of proactive and long-term
kindness in a way, even thoughit takes work and time and
effort to inspire a dog to wantto wear a mussel, because it's
had so much positivereinforcement around it and
you've taken time and care andkindness to teach them, and I
agree with that.
And if you've got any dogthat's had any tendency when
(40:28):
they're put under stress to goto their teeth to express that
stress and fear, then a mussel.
From the perspective of theveterinarian who's got to look
at your dog, I've got to tellyou.
Bryndon Golya (40:39):
Your vet will thank you, that's true.
Dr Edward (40:42):
Well, you'd be surprised how many people the
dog tries to bite me and thenthey say, oh, I just tried to
bite three other vets.
Bryndon Golya (40:49):
It's not hilarious, it's unreal.
Dr Edward (40:50):
I don't tell you.
It's really weird Humanbehavior.
Bryndon Golya (40:55):
People really want to show me the aggression
when I come over to their housetoo, like when I walk in.
They're like don't you want tosee it?
I'm like, no, no, why would Iwant your dog to get better at
this?
Dr Edward (41:05):
I don't want to be part of it Awesome.
So it's been a reallyinteresting, broad-ranging
conversation and all of you whoare listening I'm sure you've
learned a whole lot of goodthings.
I hope you've been doing yourbox breathing a little bit while
we're going through the secondhalf of this.
I know that I was when I waslistening to Brendan and we're
going to wrap this up, but Ijust want to let you know that
(41:28):
with the Pets, people andHarmony podcast, we have an
intensive workshop series thatcomes off the back of not every
episode, but most episodes.
Most of our speakers have somuch more really practical,
actionable information andskills and wisdom to share.
Then we can fit into the 45 oddminutes of the podcast.
So we're going to we'll be doingthis live with Brendan a couple
(41:53):
of weeks after this mainepisode drops and then it'll be
available as a recordingthereafter as well so that you
can drop in.
But we're going to spend awhole two hours together where
we're going to go right into thepracticalities and you're going
to learn games and skills andtraining methods and all sorts
(42:14):
of things to strengthen yourrelationship with your pets
through a deeper understanding,with kindness, using management,
using positive rewards andoffering choice versus demanding
behavior All of these things.
So, brendan, thank you so much.
It's been an absolute privilegeto have you on sharing your
wisdom on the show and we lookforward to having a really
(42:39):
amazing intensive workshop withyou as well.
Bryndon Golya (42:42):
Sounds good, my pleasure.
Thank you for having me.
Dr Edward (42:44):
You're welcome and Pearl, who's asleep here, says
goodbye to everyone too.
I saw your dog was just upthere a minute ago.
Thank you so much for beingpart of the podcast.
If you enjoy the podcast,please do leave us a review and
tell your friends about it,where this podcast is really
designed to bring informationand skills and learnings that
(43:04):
are going to transform the livesof pets and people for the
better in every way that we can.
So thank you very much andgoodbye for now.
We'll see you in the nextepisode.
Thank you.
Okay, welcome everyone to this full episode of
the Pets.
I'm super excited to have withus now in our teaser episode.
I kind of messed up and said itwas only 2019 that took a
sharp turn from corporate worldto go into dog training.
It was actually 2009.
(00:46):
So Brendan's been playing withdogs in this way and training
dogs for a long time.
He's got a lot of livedexperience out there in the
trenches, so to speak, with allkinds of dogs with all kinds of
problems and helping them,making them changing their lives
(01:07):
.
He takes a really holistic,relationship-based approach to
behaviour modification, andthat's one of the things that I
really love about how Brendanworks is relationship positive
reinforcement techniques.
And, speaking of dogs, mitzi'scome to help us out here.
Hello, mitzi, he loves to geton the podcast and now I've got
(01:29):
my Wifit one in to come up too,so it's going to be dog centra
up here.
We've got dogs everywhere.
Bryndon Golya (01:35):
Oh, I love Mitzi.
Mitzi's food we're going tohave-.
No, mitzi's not happening.
Dr Edward (01:41):
You have to go over there mate, I've got my phone
with the two dogs and thecomputer and cameras everywhere.
So Mitzi's obviously got alittle sore spot under his tummy
where I picked him up.
I'll have to check that out ina minute.
Okay, this is Pets.
This is what happens on thispodcast.
Is that we have-?
Bryndon Golya (01:58):
I got one here too.
Dr Edward (01:59):
Animals all over the place.
So Mitzi's now been-.
I just have to give him a patbecause he's got-.
I was supposed to be in themiddle of things and now Pearl's
taken the primary spot becauseshe's 15 and a half.
That's what happens.
So the title of our podcasttoday is Strengthen your
Relationship With your PetsThrough Deeper Understanding.
And, brendan, the three pointswe're going to go through are
(02:22):
kindness as a training principle, using management and rewards,
and offering choice versusdemanding behavior from your dog
.
So let's dig into the first oneKindness is a training
principle.
How this inspires you.
Bryndon Golya (02:38):
You know this is not something I learned in a
textbook.
It wasn't something that was ina dog behavior course that I
took.
It's something that I'velearned over, I guess more and
more and more over a year of mylife and seen how it affects my
relationships, my own dog'srelationships between other
(03:02):
people.
And it does fit in with themanagement rewards and offering
choice as well, which the choicepart of it is something I've
probably put more attention toin the last three to five years,
mostly in the last three, andso the kindness that is an
aspect of that.
It's not being so demanding anddominant the word, a big D word
(03:27):
that we hear out there a lotbetween dogs and it's misused.
And there's a long history oftraining animals and people and
trying to figure out a way tocoerce them or get them to do
something that is beneficial forus or to be a part of our lives
(03:48):
, and traditionally, it seems,mostly we don't treat them as we
would our children or otherhuman beings that we would speak
of, even though we regard themso highly and we say that
they're like our children, yetwhen it comes down to it, we're
(04:08):
pretty demanding when we wantthem to do something, and this
is a species without dialoguebetween us.
This is they're never, we'renever.
Well, ai might have somethingto say about that at some point,
but right now we don't have anyreal way to communicate on the
fly with them as we would liketo.
We can learn about that I mean,we can get better at it but
(04:32):
it's not our naturalcommunication.
And so it's a challenge andthat's why there's difficulty
between the humans and the dogs,and so we expect certain
behaviors out of them or them tofit in certain ways, like I
mentioned before, and I thinkrealistically it's not
reasonable for what we expect.
(04:53):
But as far as how we interactwith them, I've found and I know
a lot of people have found thatif we give them the benefit of
the doubt again, use rewardsInstead of punishers, maybe
don't force them into positionswhich they don't like and
consider hey listen, why are mydogs, why is this dog having a
(05:16):
hard time, versus just beingmean or grumpy or aggressive or
anxious?
And so when I reframe things alot, I try to always say no,
your dog is having a hard time.
It's obvious.
Regardless of what behavior ishappening, he's having a hard
time.
How would you treat this if itwas your three-year-old kid?
And let me put it differently.
(05:39):
Let me say let's say you justgot this dog and let's say that
dog doesn't speak your language.
Let's say you happen to take ina refugee from a different
country, maybe Ukraine, whoknows just as timely, and that
child doesn't speak yourlanguage, has a different
culture, has a different history, has some trauma, and I mean
(06:02):
they're going to have somestruggles fitting into your
culture, your lifestyle, yourroutine, very much like a dog
would.
And most of the time they'rehaving a hard time and they
don't know how to tell you otherthan with their eyes, with
their facial expression, withtheir body language, with their
behavior, which may beaggravating or frustrating.
But the reality is there'ssomething to be figured out and
the dog doesn't know how toconvey that to you.
(06:23):
Most likely, and this is in alot of the scenarios I work with
, the dog doesn't know what elseto do and the humans are out of
ideas and we have to leap toconclusions and when we're out
of ideas we kind of go with whatwe've been told or what we see
on TV or Instagram and that is,make your dog do this, and it's
(06:44):
not always the most fun thingfor the dog.
It doesn't even make sense halfthe time while we're asking our
dog to lay down, or it's justsilly sometimes.
So I guess, when I to come backto it all, I want people to be
more to me, more thoughtful, andkind of take a pause, take a
breath and say all right, Idon't really know why my dog is
(07:04):
acting this way, but it'sprobably not because he's
dominant, mean alpha possessive,push, I mean he's.
There's so many other things.
That probably is.
Dr Edward (07:14):
Let's talk a little bit about that, because you know
, if you've ever worked anotherthing that I've been said to
people if you ever worked for aboss who is dominating and micro
managing- I have.
Bryndon Golya (07:26):
Yeah, I left that job and I've been here with Doc
Schreiner.
Dr Edward (07:29):
Did you enjoy it and how did it feel to have someone
kind of bullying you all thetime?
Oh, I mean.
Bryndon Golya (07:38):
I, I've never liked that I, I I've always been
a of the type that just doesn't, you know, like being told what
to do and likes freedom andlikes to be expressive, you know
, might be more artistic andcreative and needs space and is
hard to hard to fit into a rigid, you know, format.
And I think that's a lot ofdogs, you know, even if it's
(07:58):
just half I think that's enough.
It's.
You know it's.
There's plenty of dogs that canfit into a lot of ease, a lot
of lifestyles, and you know we,we expect every dog to do that.
But reality is there's just,we're just, it's just too
demanding and we expect too muchof our dogs.
Like I was mentioning before,we put our dogs in positions of
deprivation most of the day andnight, either in a crate kennel
(08:20):
or without anybody.
We feed them out of a bowl, likewe do for some reason, and it
may sit there all day.
It may be gone in three minutes, and then what?
And then we might take them outonce a day If you're lucky.
You know some people get outtwo or three times, but you know
it's probably once or twice andit's probably less than 30
minutes and in the event thatit's not, it's probably walking
(08:41):
to a destination that you wantto go to.
That doesn't enrich their livesand it's at a pace that's ideal
for the human and they miss alot along the way.
So there's a lot of stuff thatwe just expect out of our dogs
which comes back into, you know,offering choice and so forth
and more rewards, and there'ssome basic, really easy rewards
you can add to our dogs livesthat I think are simple enough.
(09:03):
And I know they're simplebecause people have done them,
taken my advice and and theirdog's behaviors change
relatively quickly and it's notdrastic, it's not hard, it's not
technical Simple things to makebig differences.
Dr Edward (09:16):
Okay.
So when we're talking aboutsimple things that make big
differences, what kinds ofrewards?
You know?
Positive reinforcement.
Well, let's, before we go intothat we're going to go into more
practicalities in the secondhalf of this interview but maybe
explain to us a bit about whatpositive reinforcement is and
(09:36):
why it's a beautiful, kind wayto inspire your dogs to want to
work with you and do the desiredthings.
Bryndon Golya (09:44):
Well, I'd say overall, it's probably the
preferred choice of interactionbetween everybody here.
Watching this, every organismseems to be like to be rewarded
versus punished.
It's just, it's a motivation,like punishment is, but it seems
to not have the side effects orissues of punishment per se.
There are other side effects oftoo much rewards, too often and
(10:04):
so forth.
But realistically like, if youwant to motivate your dog, your
husband, your wife, any friendof yours, it's advised to
probably tell them how much youlike them, show that to them
when they're doing somethingthat you like and likely they're
going to remember that and wantto do that for you again
because it was so rewarding forthem.
If you do that more than you do, correct them and tell them
(10:28):
what's wrong or add pressure,their emotions are generally
better around you and they'regoing to want to compliment you
or be a part of your life more.
So.
That relationship is there whenyou start to think about
positive.
What can I add good to thesituation?
When can I add it?
Where do I add it?
How frequently do I add it, youknow, and so forth, and that's
(10:52):
as technical as it really has toget to some degree.
You just need to do more of it,be consistent enough, because
most people are not, and, withthat, use management which we
talked about to prevent unwantedbehavior.
If we can really lay on themanagement, and I mean like
really early on, so we don'tdevelop problems and
(11:13):
misunderstandings and boundaryissues, then what you'd like, if
you do it well, is just reward,reward, reward for the most
part, okay.
Dr Edward (11:21):
So so rewards are something that is enjoyable or
pleasurable, something that isdesired yeah, if we want to get
really kind of high level matterabout it and it's something.
What does a positive reward doin terms of the physiology and
(11:43):
the mental, emotional state ofbeing of dogs?
Do you think?
Bryndon Golya (11:48):
Well, it does increase focus.
Dopamine is part of that.
Engagement increases engagementdrive and so forth.
So if you're looking to getyour dog more motivated and more
focused on something, then Ithink using that will be the
best method.
Contrarily, if you usepunishment, it does the exact
opposite.
Dogs don't offer behavior.
(12:10):
As much Stress, hormones,cortisol, adrenaline rise.
They don't come back down forsome time.
You know it's not ideal, andthen dogs don't learn well when
they're stressed period.
None of us do when we'restressed or fearful or concerned
.
We just don't retain knowledgevery well at all and so I don't
recommend that.
But yeah, it does.
(12:30):
It builds a relationship and afeeling and a memory and that is
the best.
I think that's exactly what Iwant for everybody is a feeling
of what training is like,because you can't train just the
behavior.
You're always training abehavior and training how to
feel.
Dr Edward (12:51):
I suppose too, you could reframe training to become
relationship building andcommunication and in a
relationship each wants toplease the other right and you
want to work together and youwant to have a bond and
inspiration and connection.
Bryndon Golya (13:11):
I think that's true.
I think the label training issomething we might want to
reconsider because it does evokea certain context of what that
looks like in our head, Maybeeven past experiences, training,
having a challenge and tryingto overcome a challenge.
But yeah, if you're thinkingabout relationship building as a
(13:33):
method for interest and followthrough and presence, I think
that's a good way to look at it.
I mean, I often have the sameconversation with my clients and
use their relationship as ananalogy to their dogs and use
mine, because I mean, thelong-term relationship have been
in the few and that's kind ofmy thing, and they wouldn't be
(13:54):
long-term or this wouldn't belong-term if I didn't put a lot
of work into it.
And I've learned that it's alot of being present, being
consistent, adding value, Um,turning towards them and conf
and finding a way to solveproblems together.
And if I don't put the time inwith my relationship, I'm going
(14:16):
to have a struggle of conflictand we're going to kind of
probably divulge into being meanor you know and not and not use
the, the, you know the tools wehave.
So I think it's this it'sthat's really helped me with my
dogs and back and forth.
I've learned that they're very,very similar yeah.
Dr Edward (14:33):
Well, certainly you know my, my experience with
animals and and I I grew up on aon a cattle property.
I ranch here in Australia whereanimals were not treated kindly
.
You know there was a lot ofvery forceful, painful, um
aversive, flat out, brutal andhorrible things Um that I
learned how to do and I've hadto unlearn a lot of that.
(14:55):
So I think one of the things inthere there is a stack of
evidence for this is thatanytime you start using negative
reinforcement, aversives,painful, fearful stimuli to to
make an animal do something yeah, you know I I believe two
things happen.
One is that you damage therelationship and bond with your
animal.
And number two is you causetrauma which sets the nervous
(15:18):
system gets sensitized intosympathetic, dominant,
adrenalized, and and then youranimals can't learn and and they
, their behavior tends to, to,to, to deteriorate and be less
desirable for us humans, right?
Bryndon Golya (15:31):
It does, yeah, and I and I and I'm no, uh, I
mean I'm.
I've had my own experienceusing aversive methods and you
know I didn't start out knowingeverything I do today and I
probably started out what youcall a balanced trainer, really
loving the idea of positivereinforcement, really delving
into it but at the same time,seeing how punishment works and,
(15:53):
unfortunately, being good at it.
I am a really fast reactiveperson.
I have the skill set to be agreat punishment trainer.
I just learned over time and alot of dogs who told me that
this is not working and then,once I learned that they're how
they're communicating, I couldsee what they're trying to tell
me and like, this is not what Iwant to go home with.
Yeah, and I don't want.
(16:15):
I don't want that, that feelingmyself, um and and and.
To be fair, I don't want to saythat all punishment or negative
reinforcement, from myperspective, is purely bad and
it's and it's ineffective.
It is very effective, but it'sit's.
I want to teach people how tobe mean to their dogs.
Dr Edward (16:33):
No, well, there's.
There's the essence of it isright, it's more I want to teach
people how to be mean to theirdog, which is what aversives
really is at the core.
Now, a dog might find yousetting setting a boundary
somewhat aversive, but that'shealthy for the whole
relationship overall and thatthat's a different thing too,
right.
Bryndon Golya (16:53):
Your dog is going to pull on leash and you're
going to hold on to the leashand when they're done pulling,
you're probably going to walkthem.
It's negative reinforcement,yeah, but what else are you
going to do?
Let your dog run down thestreet after the squirrel.
So I mean, yeah, it's part oflife.
Uh, waiting in traffic waiting,waiting in traffic every day
here in California is very, veryaversive and in the feeling of
getting out of it's amazing.
So there's something to be saidfor the.
(17:15):
You know the the negativereinforcement if it's used
correctly.
But it should not be yourprimary method and you really
need to Use it in a limitedfashion, as because it does
involve positive punishmentfirst, which most people don't
use Absolutely.
Dr Edward (17:30):
And you know, if you have that principle of kindness
that is going to inform any kindof occasional, necessary
negative reinforcement, then howare you going to do that?
It's going to be totallydifferent anyway.
Um so management how do youdefine management, and and
limiting and what's limiting?
Bryndon Golya (17:49):
usually limiting access is the first way I would
look at it.
Um to anything so far away.
You know your home ismanagement.
You bring your puppy from theoutside in.
You've got walls, you've gotdoors, you've got everything
that we have, that you know,stairs, et cetera.
And so to avoid problembehavior, we can predict dogs do
(18:09):
certain things Dogs like food,dogs like people, dogs liked
play.
Um, dogs like to see things,like to be stimulated.
So a lot of this might be,let's say, looking out of a
window uh, dogs barking out of awindow all day long when you're
gone, practicing barking andpracticing driving people away,
only to feel successful.
Dr Edward (18:29):
Yeah, and getting the inevitable success that every
time they bug, at the moment hegoes away.
The ultimate reinforcer.
Bryndon Golya (18:34):
Yeah, ultimate reinforcer Um and and so and
that's negative reinforcementtechnically but uh, it does
increase behavior, the barkingrapidly in some cases.
So you know, that's one ofthose where, like, you need to
either cover your blinds, youneed to tint the windows or you
need to remove the couch frombehind the window and that is
(18:55):
technically the antecedent ofthe behavior.
The driver is access.
And that's actually the one ofthe first things I look to
before I do any training is whatcan I limit to minimize the
expression of this behavior?
Dr Edward (19:07):
Um, okay, that's a.
That's an interesting principle.
What can I limit to reduce theexpression of undesirable
behaviors in in the dog's life,that's?
Bryndon Golya (19:17):
that's not going to compromise, of course, their
wellbeing, but this is right,it's a harder time adjusting and
you have to make thoseadjustments based on the dog and
your understanding and and whatyou can come up with creatively
.
But I have three dogs right now.
Um, they're all small dogs.
They're you know, they're easyto manage.
But I have one who's my oldestand she has a resource guarding
(19:38):
history Nothing that's evercaused damage, but it's not fair
to my other ones who aresmaller or more vulnerable.
So, very simply, I could createher.
I create her it when she eats.
The other ones are free atdifferent areas.
They're not near each othereither, but I trained her to
tolerate a crate.
She likes the crate, she has agreat time in there and because
she's in there, we're all safe.
Everybody have no worrieswhatsoever.
(20:00):
Otherwise, 90, 95% of the timewe're fine also, but 5% of the
time there's a screaming matchand somebody's vulnerable and
takes, taken advantage of, andthat's just not okay.
Dr Edward (20:10):
So, yeah, yeah, so you, you're managing, that's
management, that's management.
Through managing theenvironment and other stimuli.
Okay, so we've got through kindof the first phase of this
podcast, which is ideas, talkingabout ideas and philosophies
and things like that.
We're going to take a littlefive minute interlude here that
every time we do one of theseepisodes we ask our guests
(20:35):
what's your?
Something that you do in yourlife for self care that you can
share with us in five minutes,the most effective thing that
helps you be happier andhealthier.
Bryndon Golya (20:47):
I'll share two things because they're not
interchangeable.
I'll go with a little bit ofhistory For quick.
I have Tourette syndrome.
I have a little anxiety once ina while, I get highly aroused
and very easy to arouse, and soI need to settle down.
Sometimes I also talk a lot,which you can tell, and I don't
get enough oxygen, probablybecause of that, and so I need
(21:10):
to notice and notice when my I'mfeeling a certain way inside a
certain tension, heart rate,breath rate.
There's just something I'venoticed in my body that says you
know what, if you do this toolong, you might hit your
threshold and then you mightreact in a certain way, just
like your dog, and you might notmean it, but those triggers, as
minor as they are, even goodones.
(21:31):
Public speaking for two hours,I loved it, but I, you know I
didn't address my ticks, myTourettes, and I'm you know.
So I need to settle down andreevaluate myself, and so with
that I have breathing techniquesthat I love to share.
Right, I practice daily, I don'tknow how many times a day, but
it's whenever I need it, andthose are typically two kinds.
(21:52):
One is called box breathing, soI'll demonstrate real quick.
Usually it's starting with anexhale to get all the air out
and then a probably a five toseven second inhale, ideally
through the nose, if you don'thave clogged nose, and then hold
five to seven seconds, slowly,exhale five to seven seconds.
(22:12):
Basically it's five to seven,five to seven, five to seven and
then, once you're out of breath, about three to five maybe
seconds of no breath whatsoeverand then it starts a progression
again.
The other breathing techniquethat I use and I'll do that for
five to 10 minutes, I'll go fromcompletely stressed out.
Dr Edward (22:30):
I'm just doing it right now and I can feel a
settling and my nervous systemoh, that's kind of nice.
Bryndon Golya (22:36):
And you can increase the length of time
gradually.
You don't have to start out.
If you're stressed at five toseven seconds, you could go
inhale five seconds, hold threeseconds, exhale, you know, five
seconds, maybe one or twoseconds at the bottom, and then
build up once you're kind ofstable to five to seven, maybe
10 seconds and just go with whatyou're comfortable with.
Dr Edward (22:58):
That's the point and you know, all the while you're
listening, play around with this.
Start maybe three seconds inpause, three seconds out three
seconds.
Yeah, pause, three seconds inthree seconds, just to get a
feel of it in your body whileyou're listening.
Because it's I want people.
One of the things about thispodcast is I don't want you just
to listen to it and do nothing.
I want you to learn somethingand take something into your
(23:19):
life.
And this breathing techniquewell, if you do it regularly
during the day, it'll reset yournervous system in a really
profound way.
Bryndon Golya (23:28):
Two more suggestions.
One, do this, laying down, ifyou can, so your body's taken
out of it, you're not trying tobalance and use your musculature
.
Take the senses out If you cango into a darker room or just
put something over your eyes.
A lot of times our eyes keep usin a certain state, from what I
can tell, and if I close myeyes I am much faster, I lose
track of what I'm thinking aboutand I can finally focus on
(23:50):
myself without all the extrastimulation.
That seems to be more helpful.
And then the last breathingtechnique that I use I've
learned recently.
I guess it's called aphysiological sigh, and we all
do this without even knowing it.
We do it when we're asleep, wedo it throughout the day, our
animals do it, you can watchthem and when we're tired or low
(24:12):
on oxygen we will inhale againjust through the nose, slow at
the end and then deep again,five to seven seconds, but it's
two inhales.
It's then the exhale or throughthe nose, whatever is easiest
for you.
Supposedly that helps us ridour bodies of CO2 much faster
(24:37):
and get more oxygen to ourbodies.
Dr Edward (24:39):
And you know you're either listening to us you
probably hear a little change inthe tone of our voice because
we've been doing this practicein the middle of this episode
that we're recording now, andyou know my invitation for you
is what we're gonna do next inthis podcast episode is we're
gonna dig into some practicalexpression of things you can do
(24:59):
with your animals in terms ofexpressing kindness, offering
choice first, demanding behavior, which, and management and
rewards.
But while you're listening,just maybe play around with
doing that box, breathing whileyou're listening, and notice the
changes in your body, becauseone thing that I've noticed with
(25:20):
my work with animals is themore that I care for myself and
the better I get into a grounded, relaxed state, the better my
dogs behave, invariably.
Bryndon Golya (25:30):
That's my secret too.
That's why I've learned this.
It's up to me to set an exampleof the what energy, what
behavior, what I'm saying.
I tend to swear or cuss or bemore erratic when I'm in that
state, and my dogs also pick upon those cues.
Not that I have it in mind andnot that I'm angry at my dogs.
It could be the internet, itcould be anything, it could be a
(25:53):
25 robot, text calls orwhatever, but it's just.
You know when you need to takecare of yourself, like you said
at first.
So I put a lot of thesepractices in place, basically so
I can be better for others,including my dogs.
Dr Edward (26:07):
Awesome.
So let's dig into some hands-onapplications of what we're
talking about today, which isstrengthening your relationship
with your pets through deeperunderstanding.
So how do you express kindnessin what we're calling it
training, but it's reallyrelationship building and
learning together how to livetogether and modify our behavior
(26:28):
so that we can be a pack, youknow, with animals.
Bryndon Golya (26:33):
Yeah, I mean kindness is a practice that is
all day, you know it starts with.
I mean every interaction withour pet has an opportunity for
some kind of kindness.
It's how we pick them up, youknow.
I mean that we say, hey, listen, I know you have some sensitive
inner castles in your ribs.
Maybe I should be careful, or Iknow you.
Dr Edward (26:52):
I wasn't quite aware that he was quite so sensitive.
Bryndon Golya (26:55):
I wasn't judging you either, I was just talking
to my head, because it happensto my dogs too.
Dr Edward (27:00):
I feel a little odd about that actually.
Then I picked him up and he'slike oh, that's really so good.
I'm so sorry.
Bryndon Golya (27:08):
Yeah, I have old pets and I have to be careful of
how they're feeling.
They feel different from day today, and so I try to feel them
out and see what's best for them.
One likes to be held close soshe's secure.
One likes to have her bottomheld a certain way.
One likes to perch.
They might have.
They have spinal differences,and so I'm just trying to kind
of identify what's the best wayto interact with them when they
like to be pet.
(27:29):
Where they don't like to be pet, why am I petting them?
Am I bugging my pets?
Am I doing it selfishly, for myown needs?
Dr Edward (27:35):
That happens a lot with me.
Bryndon Golya (27:37):
That happens often.
I'm very wanted to be in mypets, in their face, and when
they're sleeping they're thecutest.
But, man, can you imagine beingwoken up every four minutes
because you want them to?
Dr Edward (27:47):
have any love on your face.
Bryndon Golya (27:49):
It's something I think about.
So that's one of the ways Iexpress kindness.
I let them sleep.
When I see them doing the rightthing, I walk up and I offer
them a treat.
I have stations where I keepfood around.
I'll just grab it and drop itoff where I like them doing the
right behavior.
I don't make them, I don'tforce them into situations I can
see they're not into.
I mean, I like them to sit andlook at me for things, but if
(28:11):
they object once in a while, Isay okay, why are you not doing
this?
Sometimes?
Is there a really valid reasonwhy I'm doing this or is it my
routine?
Yeah, I see this a lot actuallywith this is one that's kind of
a pee.
But I see with a lot of ownersand I see it on busy curbsides,
at street corners, where it'sterrifying, and they're forcing
(28:33):
their dog into a sit and, likeman, that dog is scared shitless
, excuse me and it doesn't wantto for a very good reason.
Dr Edward (28:41):
Yeah, because he's aroused, he's in a really
sympathetic, dominant state ofbeing and his brain is turned
off and he needs to be up on hisfeet because he feels like he's
got to run away, because he'sscary things.
And then you've got this bighand coming.
Bryndon Golya (28:55):
Sit down.
I've seen it in my own dogbecause there is a dog behind
her giving her a very nasty lookand I had asked her.
I was actually photographing agroup of dogs and people and my
dog was in there and I said down, and she wouldn't.
I was like she was telling meno, straight up, I'm not doing
that.
And there was a German shepherdbehind her giving her nasty
(29:16):
look that I didn't see becauseof behind a person and come to
find out.
That's why she was like I don'twant to be vulnerable.
This dog was too close to me.
I went a way out in case, andso there's a lot of reasons.
I found that my dogs are righta lot of the time.
Dr Edward (29:29):
Oh look, and you know , sometimes with Mitzi it's just
like dude, I don't want to dothat, so I'm not gonna.
And I really like dogs thatoccasionally.
Just I asked him to dosomething.
It's like I want to see you.
Bryndon Golya (29:43):
Why would they have to have a?
Why do they have to be robots?
You know what is that?
I mean?
Why everybody has to object toyou once in a while, otherwise
it's it's not real life.
So you should look out for thatin your pet and say, hey, look,
they don't want to.
Why, what does it matter?
What do they can't?
They just stand there and lookat you, you know, and is that
(30:03):
not okay to receive love andaffection?
Or do they have to be to sit?
And that sit might be in a hardor a slippery surface, like a
lot of the houses out here,where the legs play out and it
causes stress on the body and Idon't want a dog to sit like
that.
I don't want to force agreyhound with a long spine to
sit.
Dr Edward (30:21):
I had a staffy once who, in winter we had cement
tile floors and the only placeyou would sit was on your foot
because you didn't like puttinga backside on the cold floor one
little bit.
Bryndon Golya (30:31):
Right.
Dr Edward (30:32):
So let's move into offering choice versus demanding
behavior, because we're kind ofstarting to edge into talking
about that anyway, aren't we?
Bryndon Golya (30:40):
We are, and that's it's a perfect fit for
where I'm going, because that isalso that choice, and today I
experienced that a little bit.
I was walking my dogs and sothe sun's coming in my eyes over
here as the sun changes.
But I was walking my dogs todayand you know I really had a lot
to do.
I had a lot going on today, butI was like you know what you
(31:01):
guys need to go out together andyou know if you don't, we're
probably not going to get itdone later or be to rush.
I took them out and I'mwatching my dogs and, to be fair
, this is pretty common, for Idon't take my dogs to anywhere.
It's not I'm not going to walkthem Like to a place, or it's
not for certain amount of timeor it's not for exercise, it's
just to get some enrichment.
They want to run, they want todo, can do that.
(31:23):
So most of the time I'm lettingthem lead.
I mean, I'm letting them decidewhere they want to go, as long
as it's not gonna end up being aproblem Whether it's not
something wrong with that areaor that's not incompatible with
yet yeah, their comfort level is, and so you know I I wanted to
go back home and they're likeyou know what?
I want to go smell this way,like I have no idea what's that
way.
It's something amazing.
There was that they grabbed aspot for the next five minutes
(31:44):
and they're loving it.
But you know, I could have saidno, we're going this way because
I want to go home.
I'm like a lot of people mighthave.
I'm like, instead, I said youknow you can smell out here
longer, go when you want.
I don't know what you'resmelling like.
Yeah, I can't tell you what'sgood or what's not.
I can just say, you know, ifyou're enjoying it, the worst
thing that happens.
I just sit out here and waitfor you for a little bit longer.
But I know when you go home youmight be a little bit happier.
You know you might be sleepinglike they are right now, because
(32:07):
they have their needs met tosome extent, more than I Would
have if I decided what was bestfor them.
You know I need to walk youAnother half a mile, or I, you
know whatever.
Maybe.
Yeah, pass all this.
Dr Edward (32:19):
Yeah, and I suppose to you know.
I think you can bring it backto yourself.
You know, though, those of youwho are listening, how much do
you like to have choice andagency in your life, and how
much do you like to be reallycontrolled and made to do Things
that you don't want to do?
You know, because your dogshave feelings just like you, and
the more you realize that, themore you're gonna start to
(32:42):
change how you interact withthem.
In little ways, I think it ismy primary reinforcer.
Bryndon Golya (32:47):
Let's put it that way choice is absolutely my.
What drives me the most when Ifeel like I'm limited, I have
anxiety and I don't like thatfeeling.
So I can only imagine how itfeels for others who can't
communicate.
They're there, I guess, theposition they're in, and not
being able to find anotheravenue to fulfill themselves.
So, yeah, I think choice isabsolutely crucial.
(33:09):
Is probably, should you know,be then be one of the top things
we consider.
Not that we can afford that allthe time, but we don't do that
for anybody all the time.
Dr Edward (33:18):
When it comes now, we do need to demand some
behaviors from our dogs forsafety, for you know,
cleanliness and not messing inthe house and stuff like that.
So how do you go aboutapproaching Necessary, demanding
a behavior when, when you withyour dogs and when you're
working with clients dogs?
Bryndon Golya (33:40):
There's this.
This is where there's a littlebit of a gray area.
How much can you tolerate, howmuch can you ignore?
I mean, I'd say it's a practicebehavior, it's a learned
behavior.
Most people aren't very good atignoring their pets there.
They respond to them Just likethey would people, and it seems
to contribute to problemsbecause it's attention and
reinforcement, and so I thinkyou know there's a there's a
(34:02):
line where it's like you knowthere's.
They may demand and want things, and that's probably just
something I need to fix laterChange my scheduling for the day
, feed different times, use moreenrichment, walk more.
It's usually a symptom ofsomething I haven't done already
.
But, either way, what I you can, I guess, when it comes down to
(34:24):
certain things, you don't haveto respond to everything you can
let.
If you and if you trainproperly, let's put this way if
you use positive reinforcementprimarily, and not punishment,
your dogs tend to offer optionsto you.
They'll show you something elsethey're they're interested in.
They won't just sit there.
So they may say, alright, if Ican't have this, maybe I'll do
(34:46):
this for this.
I've already trained you how todo these things.
They're like well, you know,you train me how to go to a mat.
Alright, well, if I, instead ofbarking here and jumping on you
, I noticed that mats over there.
Still, if you ignore me longenough, I might try something
else that you taught me and andthat's that's still choice.
I'm just not responding to thefirst thing I'm get.
I've given you choice alreadyand now you've walked over to
(35:07):
the carpet laid down.
Oh, good decision, nice, I likethat.
You changed your mind.
I'm now want to meet you here.
So there's, that's a little bitof choice.
And I guess I should say but Imean with food, if, if you know
that pets don't want, or my dogsdon't want to eat a certain way
, I'll give it to them adifferent way If they don't like
him.
(35:27):
You know something else I'mdoing.
I'll say I, we're not doingthat, we're not gonna play that
game today, but it doesn't, yeah, but when they.
But there's a, there's a pointwhere I won't.
I know that.
There's a point where I, if I,if I respond too much To demand
behavior, that I'm part of theproblem as well.
I have to find other solutionsso that they don't feel it need
to.
Dr Edward (35:44):
So well, I suppose there's two kinds of ways we can
look at demanding behavior towe can.
We can demand that dogs behavein certain ways in Certain
contexts for a range of reasons,but dogs are extraordinarily
demanding in what they ask ofhumans and they're
extraordinarily determined andthey're Incredibly good at
reading human body language.
(36:05):
So if if you don't mean it inyour body, they're just gonna
ignore you no matter what yousay.
Bryndon Golya (36:10):
That is true.
Yeah, a body language issomething people aren't very
keen on, it seems like, butthey're using it all the time.
So, yeah, yeah it's, it's allover your face, it's in your
posture, it's in your breathing,really in your breathing.
People hold their breath whenthey're nervous, when they're
scared, when they're tense.
Dogs feel that they hear thatyour behavior translates Just
(36:33):
down, like from your mind.
So people use.
It's one of those things.
People.
People use word energy a lotand I like the, the word itself,
but it's misleading, is, it's akind of ethereal Energy is
definitely real, but it's andI'm sure animals can.
We can all sense that, butthere's an obvious amount of
behavior that happens Morbidlywith this energy.
You know tightening, tensingposture.
(36:56):
You know facial expressionsyeah, tightening of mouth, big
eyes blinking pupil dilation andheart rate.
Heart rate is a big one foranimal.
Dr Edward (37:07):
Your smell changes.
When you smell changes, yeah,we can't we can't change that.
Bryndon Golya (37:12):
But you know, there there's a lot of stuff
going on that we're we're notreally aware of as far as what
our animals are reading andresponding to.
Dr Edward (37:19):
So Okay, so let's just touch on On management
again.
Yeah sure, before we go to that, you know, I actually think
it's it's fine not to give dogswhat they want.
I think it builds resilienceand if you let them work through
frustration and don't oversoothe and Panda to them too
(37:42):
much, I think that can actuallybe really good for emotional,
mental resilience over time.
I agree.
Bryndon Golya (37:48):
I totally I agree with that and I think it's hard
to do, which I think it's agreat skill to acquire.
The ability is to know you'renot hurting your dog and they're
not screaming in pain.
They're just, you know, actinglike a child and you've given
them a certain set of skills anda certain amount of limitations
to communicate, and that's whatwe have, and so sometimes you
(38:10):
let it go and they just Getthrough it.
Dr Edward (38:14):
Yeah, they work their way through it and that that's
kind of important too.
But management do you haveanything else practical you can
talk about with managementbefore we wrap this up?
Bryndon Golya (38:24):
Think about all the all the way was using
manager.
I'll say this Because there's alot of options that go down,
but something that's overlookeda lot that is, and something
that's looked at down upon quitea bit, are mussels, and I would
say this I am a big proponentof mussels that are conditioned
(38:45):
properly.
They're a great skill to havebefore you need it.
So I like the idea of musseltraining or feeding out of
mussels for pets who don't needit at an early age, even in
puppyhood.
Dr Edward (38:58):
Yep, and I think what you're saying here is that you
want to make it.
So the dog thinks oh, here's amussel, that's cool, put that
thing on this is awesome Right.
Bryndon Golya (39:08):
Totally.
That's exactly my point.
So I think, getting ahead ofthat, making it a positive,
making a positive associationwith it, having a good emotion
contextual to the device so thatit's not a stressor.
That way in the future, if youneed it for any reason, you
could be traveling.
There could be a naturaldisaster.
Your pet isn't safe out andabout, maybe you couldn't kennel
(39:29):
him, maybe your dog doesdevelop aggression for some
reason.
It could be from pain, it couldbe from anxiety, it could be
from any number of reasons andthe easiest way to prevent that
is a mussel in a lot of cases,without having to go deep into
training and behavior work andanesthetian arrangement and so
(39:49):
forth and environmentalmanagement.
The easiest thing to manageusually is the mouth, but it's
very challenging and stressfuland can add to the aggression or
frustration if we don't do itahead of time.
So don't look at dogs withmussels as dangerous.
Look at them as the safest dogsaround you, probably.
Dr Edward (40:07):
Yeah, and this is a kind of proactive and long-term
kindness in a way, even thoughit takes work and time and
effort to inspire a dog to wantto wear a mussel, because it's
had so much positivereinforcement around it and
you've taken time and care andkindness to teach them, and I
agree with that.
And if you've got any dogthat's had any tendency when
(40:28):
they're put under stress to goto their teeth to express that
stress and fear, then a mussel.
From the perspective of theveterinarian who's got to look
at your dog, I've got to tellyou.
Bryndon Golya (40:39):
Your vet will thank you, that's true.
Dr Edward (40:42):
Well, you'd be surprised how many people the
dog tries to bite me and thenthey say, oh, I just tried to
bite three other vets.
Bryndon Golya (40:49):
It's not hilarious, it's unreal.
Dr Edward (40:50):
I don't tell you.
It's really weird Humanbehavior.
Bryndon Golya (40:55):
People really want to show me the aggression
when I come over to their housetoo, like when I walk in.
They're like don't you want tosee it?
I'm like, no, no, why would Iwant your dog to get better at
this?
Dr Edward (41:05):
I don't want to be part of it Awesome.
So it's been a reallyinteresting, broad-ranging
conversation and all of you whoare listening I'm sure you've
learned a whole lot of goodthings.
I hope you've been doing yourbox breathing a little bit while
we're going through the secondhalf of this.
I know that I was when I waslistening to Brendan and we're
going to wrap this up, but Ijust want to let you know that
(41:28):
with the Pets, people andHarmony podcast, we have an
intensive workshop series thatcomes off the back of not every
episode, but most episodes.
Most of our speakers have somuch more really practical,
actionable information andskills and wisdom to share.
Then we can fit into the 45 oddminutes of the podcast.
So we're going to we'll be doingthis live with Brendan a couple
(41:53):
of weeks after this mainepisode drops and then it'll be
available as a recordingthereafter as well so that you
can drop in.
But we're going to spend awhole two hours together where
we're going to go right into thepracticalities and you're going
to learn games and skills andtraining methods and all sorts
(42:14):
of things to strengthen yourrelationship with your pets
through a deeper understanding,with kindness, using management,
using positive rewards andoffering choice versus demanding
behavior All of these things.
So, brendan, thank you so much.
It's been an absolute privilegeto have you on sharing your
wisdom on the show and we lookforward to having a really
(42:39):
amazing intensive workshop withyou as well.
Bryndon Golya (42:42):
Sounds good, my pleasure.
Thank you for having me.
Dr Edward (42:44):
You're welcome and Pearl, who's asleep here, says
goodbye to everyone too.
I saw your dog was just upthere a minute ago.
Thank you so much for beingpart of the podcast.
If you enjoy the podcast,please do leave us a review and
tell your friends about it,where this podcast is really
designed to bring informationand skills and learnings that
(43:04):
are going to transform the livesof pets and people for the
better in every way that we can.
So thank you very much andgoodbye for now.
We'll see you in the nextepisode.
Thank you.
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