January 20, 2025 • 51 mins
Join us for an enlightening conversation with Shanti Zinzi, a holistic feline behavior therapist, as we uncover the often-overlooked world of indoor cats. Shanti brings a wealth of experience from veterinary practices, animal shelters, and wildlife, challenging traditional paradigms in animal care to embrace a more holistic approach. Together, we explore the historical neglect of feline health compared to dogs and delve into the disparities in veterinary visits and societal preferences that have shaped pet care over the decades.
Ever wondered about the unseen dangers lurking in your home? We discuss the startling levels of indoor pollutants like flame retardants found in cats compared to dogs, revealing how indoor environments can impact pet health. Tune in to understand the importance of fresh air and the role of natural elements in enhancing your pet's well-being. We also critically examine the corporate narratives that often demonize cats while ignoring larger ecological threats, urging a shift towards holistic planetary stewardship.
The episode culminates with a profound exploration of our connection to indigenous earth consciousness and the wisdom embedded in ancestral knowledge. We reflect on how a heart-centered approach can foster healthier relationships with both our pets and the planet. Shanti shares practical advice on caring for indoor cats, emphasizing the joys and responsibilities that come with it, and challenges misconceptions about cats as top predators. This episode is a call to reconnect with our roots and embrace a perspective that honors the interconnectedness of all life.
You can find out more about Shanti at..
Instagram or Website
Order Now
Access current and previous Intensive workshops discussed on these podcasts!
- Intensive Workshop: Heal Your Voice, Empower Your Life - Register For The Intensive Workshop.
- Intensive Workshop: Strengthen Your Relationship With Your Pets with Kind Training - Register For The Intensive Workshop.
- Intensive Workshop: Animal Whispering at Home - Practice Edition - Register For The Intensive Workshop.
- Intensive Workshop: Understanding The Primal Energy and Karmic Connections Between You And Your Pets - ...
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr Edward (00:02):
Hello and welcome to the Whole Energy Body Balance
podcast.
Today we're exploring the lifeof the indoor cat with Shanti
Zinzi, who is very passionateabout cats and I love cats too,
so we're going to have lots offun, so welcome.
This podcast is a place wherewe explore all kinds of
(00:23):
possibilities and practices thatbring greater healing,
connection and harmony to pets,people and horses, and we aim to
inspire you, to hopefullychallenge you a little bit.
If you want to grow and createpositive changes in your life
and in the lives of the beingsthat you care for, you are in
the right place.
I'm your host, dr EdwardHealing Vet.
I help deeply caring people,pets and horses unfold profound
(00:47):
healing and healthyrelationships through using the
whole energy body balance method, which is a modality.
I've created kind training andI practice as a holistic,
integrative, intuitiveveterinarian all around the
world and in person.
So I'd love to welcome, try andorganise.
(01:11):
We've had all sorts oftechnical challenges today.
The computers and things havenot been working for us.
So Shanti Zinti is anexperienced holistic feline
behaviour therapist with adiverse background that spans
decades in veterinary practices,animal shelters, sanctuaries
and wildlands, and her studiesencompass a whole lot of natural
(01:35):
, ancient medicine, feline andhuman psychology and behavior,
as well as independent planetarystewardship.
So we're going to start offwith a big question, because big
questions always are a goodplace to start with, I think,
anyway.
So, shandi, who are you, why doyou do what you do and how did
you get to this point in yourlife?
Shanti Zinzi (01:59):
Dr Edward, thank you, delightful to be able to be
here with you today and myjourney was pretty circuitous.
I always wanted to go into theveterinary field in some
capacity but working inveterinary practices as a very
young person I realized I wantedto find a different path, find
(02:29):
a different path and I studiedpsychology and behavior
postgraduate and somatics andsimultaneously worked at
veterinary practices in sheltersand did a lot of an internship
in holistic hospice and rescueda lot of animals and it
organically came about that Iwas applying a lot of what I was
(02:52):
learning to the animals thatwere slated for euthanasia,
rehoming them and went on tostudy, worked for a fantastic
pioneer that was a great in tcvmand inspired me to study
postgraduate chinese medicineand in california, um, if it's
(03:12):
veterinary approved and theperson has enough training as
far as anatomy, physiology ofdomestic animals, we can
practice at veterinary practiceswith the vet.
So it's been a really wonderfuljourney getting here and very
circuitous.
It feels like the path was laidfor me and also because I
(03:33):
refuse to accept a bit of thatreductionist paradigm which I
felt.
You know there's more of atapestry of life and where we
were strong, we were sort ofstrong-arming our animals in the
1990s.
That I felt was quite traumaticand um for them and I thought
(03:53):
there is another way that ismore earth conscious, animal
conscious, um, that canfacilitate healing and along the
way I've met some amazingpioneers in the field, in
holistic medicine and um.
Here I am today.
I I mean I'm I'm not as activein it now, I'm sort of more
(04:15):
working with wildlife, but I'mhappy to return to the field and
help the animals and the catsand the dogs.
Dr Edward (04:28):
And cats are a real passion for you.
Yeah, you really reallyresonate with cats.
Shanti Zinzi (04:31):
Well, I mean I love dogs just as much.
I think I just because of thevacuum in the field.
I mean there was really avacuum here in the eighties and
nineties and there I rememberbeing in, you know, in the
middle of an exam and peoplewould say, oh, my cats are
fighting, there's the abscesses,and people were told like let
them work it out, and I justintuitively knew that wasn't the
(04:54):
right thing, but I think therewas just a lack of, maybe there
was a lack of understanding orvacuum and understanding in the
field, so it sort of created myniche in feline behavior.
And then working a lot withbehavioral animals at the animal
(05:15):
shelter in San Francisco, inthe government shelter,
preparing them for theirbehavior tests and exams,
working with the disenfranchisedpopulation that really couldn't
afford to see veterinarians, soif they needed to introduce a
new animal to the household orthey had behavioral problems at
home, I was often called upon toassist them.
Dr Edward (05:37):
Okay, so I'm in small animal practice, holistic small
animal practice.
I reckon I'd be lucky to seeone cat for every 20 dogs, and
that's been a bit of a commontheme.
You know, right across my wholecareer I see way way more dogs
than cats in veterinary practiceand I kind of wonder if that's
(05:59):
another reflection of the samekind of dynamic that you're
talking about, in that cats justdon't necessarily get the same
level of care as dogs do rightacross the board well, I think I
mean thinking back into like my, the original, like employment
place as I was working.
Shanti Zinzi (06:18):
There was a fair amount of both I think.
Um, yeah, I think there wasn't.
I mean mean in the UnitedStates I mean dogs are quite
popular and cats sort of go inand out of fashion.
I think you know sort of thedomestic animal, which one is
preferred.
Cats are a little bit easier.
Often, you know, in apartmentspeople can't have dogs or large
(06:41):
dogs, or it's landlordprohibitive.
But I think I mean there, therethere seemed to be like at
least I think back into likesort of animal shelter time.
There was many dog volunteers,many, many animals, many people
taking care of the dogs, butthere weren't as many for the
felines or the small animals.
(07:03):
So I just always sort of go towhere I'm needed and I just felt
like that path just unfoldedfor me.
You know, you just sort of youfind your way.
Yeah, I do think there was afair amount of dogs and cats in
all the practices that Iactually had worked at or or,
(07:25):
you know, at the animal sheltermight be a bit more that way in
australia perhaps.
Dr Edward (07:31):
So today we're really digging into exploring the life
of the indoor cat and the kindof pressures, too, I think, that
mean that a lot of cats areindoor and and don't have access
to the outdoor.
So I'm really curious aboutwhat you've got to share with us
on what you're saying is aneglected area that can really
(07:53):
affect feline health.
Shanti Zinzi (07:55):
Well, thank you so much for the opportunity to
share that, and you know I watcha lot of trends and things that
change and there's a sentimentthat oh, oh, the indoor cat is
so much safer yet as time isgoing on here, especially here
they're dying younger and notnecessarily meaning they're at
the getting you know annualvaccines just some of them are
(08:17):
not even getting the flea tick,insecticide being indoor animals
and people have a lot moreawareness and consciousness of
raw diets and healthy,home-cooked diets and they're
not choosing dry food.
So I sort of am looking furtherinto this and realizing, as,
where I live in San Francisco,we're going through these
economic, you know, booms andwhat's happening with
(08:42):
development is I started seeingin the past, maybe 14-15 years,
lung cancer in cats which I'venever seen before, which even in
dogs, I mean, I had never seenit before.
The particular people I wasworking with or the vets I was
working for, they hadn't seen iteither.
So that sort of turned on aswitch and realizing the amount
(09:04):
of development and fineparticulate matter and whatever
was going on in the homesformaldehyde, with all these
whatever we're you know usingfor building material,
fungicides, you know, flameretardants and these things that
(09:25):
they're exposed to indoors,that they're not necessarily
breathing outside and there wasa study that went on in 2023
that was measuring thesechemicals in the urine of dogs
and the urine of cats and it wasfound that cats have 23 times
the amount of flame retardantsthan dogs do.
(09:45):
Wow, yeah, it's prettyfascinating.
But how I'm understanding that,or how I'm making sense of that,
is we're bringing all these newproducts, cheap fashion sofas
and these things that aresprayed with flame retardant
into our homes cat beds.
They are breathing that.
Their noses are so close to it.
They are also getting it ontheir coats and they're
(10:08):
ingesting it.
Most people keep their.
You know they may have an HVACsystem and they're not.
The cats are not breathing thefresh air, so they're breathing
this stale, polluted indoor airand we're not realizing how much
that's affecting us andaffecting them.
And, as I see it, they're justlike birds.
That's affecting us andaffecting them and, as I see it,
they're just like birds.
They're quite sensitive and abit of the canary in the coal
(10:31):
mine, and it's said that whatcould happen to us in a couple
of decades can happen to a catin two to three years Disease
process.
Dr Edward (10:39):
Oh wow, Just say that again.
I think that's important.
Shanti Zinzi (10:44):
Yeah, I think so too, and this is a lot about
indoor chemicals and indoortoxins and what is actually in
the air.
So what can affect a cat in twoto three years?
So this could be thyroiddisease, cancer, asthma.
Taking that long to build withcumulative assaults can take a
human a couple of decades.
Dr Edward (11:06):
So you're thinking you might take a dog you know
five or six years, rather than acat, two or three.
I would think, yeah, dogs are abit more resilient to this kind
of thing, I presume.
Shanti Zinzi (11:17):
And dogs are going outside.
We're taking them out, we'rewalking them, yeah Right.
So I think that has a lot to dowith it and I think about it
too is, you know when?
we're out there taking our dogsfor walks, you know we're
literally interacting with well,they're interacting with
beneficial soil organisms, whichthe cats are not indoors.
(11:39):
There's phytoncides that arereleased from oaks and cedars
and cypress and pine trees,phytoncides that are released
from oaks and cedars and cypressand pine trees, and as we're
inhaling these essential oilsand phytoncides, which are the
antifungals of these trees andthe antimicrobials, we breathe
them, they interact with theimmune system and they enhance
natural killer cells.
So that's an anti-cancer, sowhat the Japanese have always
(12:02):
called forest bathing.
And now we're finally catchingon in the Western mind and
Western science that we areliterally enhancing our immune
system, enhancing the naturalkiller cells from breathing what
our trees are emitting.
And it's dogs going for walks,the same their feet are in the
(12:24):
soil, their paws they'rebreathing this fresh air.
They're interacting, they'rerolling around in the soil with
beneficial soil organisms andthe indoor cat does not have
access to these things that'strue, isn't it?
Dr Edward (12:39):
and cats have evolved to be outside.
You know, and I think we well,I think the same thing is true
for us humans and dogs andeveryone we.
We are not evolved to live in alittle box with artificial
lighting and artificial emfs and, like you said, an incredibly
high toxic load in a lot ofhomes, and I think new homes are
(13:00):
probably these days got a muchhigher toxic load than older
homes too yeah, incredibly high.
Shanti Zinzi (13:07):
The older homes they deal with like mold often
and the newer homes the toxinsare incredibly high.
New windows they'll off gas fortwo years.
Any new product, any new paintsit's about a two-year
off-gassing process.
And what we're not quite, youknow, aware, you know or
conscious of, like our animals,have hundreds, millions more
(13:29):
scent receptor cells in theirnose.
They're so incredibly sensitiveand they come into life.
Our kittens come into the world.
They don't see, but they'resmelling for their mom and the
queen.
It's a very strong, uhdeveloped sense there.
So I the another fascinatingthing is they have, apparently,
(13:52):
cats.
They just said that there's aparticular protein receptor, the
v1r, that humans have two andit differentiates between smells
.
Cat dogs have about nine andcats have 30, so cats can be
better at search and rescue anddogs.
I mean, it's just a matter oftraining them, and the animal
(14:13):
that has the highest is our rats, which, um, in africa they
actually do have.
Rats do search and rescue andthey're better at it than dogs
because they can get into smallplaces.
But I think, you know, if wejust take that into our
consciousness and we realize howimportant their noses are, they
have a vomeronasal organ.
There's so much informationthat is coming into their little
(14:36):
bodies.
So air quality, indoor air,what's happening in the homes,
is vitally important to theirhealth and their well-being, as
well as their behavior and theircognitive awareness.
You know, if we're, if they'rein the homes and all the windows
are shut, they're we're notstimulating their nasal organs.
(14:57):
So I just always ask people toopen up the windows and let them
smell what's going on outside,you know.
So get cross breeze and freshair.
Dr Edward (15:08):
And it's just a little bit.
You know, if it's cold you canstill.
Shanti Zinzi (15:11):
I kind of like a lot, you know, when I think
about it, because when I look athomes, we often and again, I'm
not really quite sure adifferent part of the world.
It's different A lot of peopleare.
There's a stack effect thathappens in buildings, people
love to store things in theirgarages and the you know the
VOCs, the high VOCs, the paintthinner, all the chemicals the
(15:32):
varnishes and that you know ifthere's a change in the
atmosphere, of pressure, or evenif you're closing your garage
door, all that stuff comes upthrough the ventilation system,
through the floorboards, comesright into the house.
Generally the top floor gets alot of that.
So you know if you're in atwo-family, if you're a
particular high-rise or whereveryou're living, what's going on
(15:54):
below you is coming up and theanimals and our cats are
breathing all of that on top ofsynthetic carpeting and whatever
cleaners or chemicals orfragrances that we're putting on
.
You know our our hands peopleare using nail varnish, all
kinds of cleaners and thesedifferent agents that I don't
(16:19):
think we have a consciousawareness of how this affects
the neuroimmune system andreally affects the thyroid.
It affects the respiratorysystem and no wonder there's an
epidemic of asthma in our cats.
Dr Edward (16:30):
Yeah, I totally agree .
I think too.
Another thing to consider isthat these volatile organic
compounds are absorbed not onlythrough scent, but through every
single bit of the skin, andcats have a larger surface area
to volume ratio than most dogsand humans, so they actually
absorb a whole lot more rightand they're right.
Shanti Zinzi (16:51):
And they're ingesting it right, because
they're continually grooming, sothey're actually whatever is
resting on the outside of theirfur they're actually swallowing.
Dr Edward (16:59):
So I feel like they're getting a bit of a
triple whammy here with uh toxinload yes, so um, I suppose
another reason that cats areindoors is that cats get a bit
of a bum rap.
In today's world, they're notthe most popular creature, right
they?
People seem to kind of saynasty things about cats.
(17:22):
A lot of people have a hate oncats, so I'd love you to explore
that a little bit.
Shanti Zinzi (17:26):
Yeah, well, I have a very passionate opinion which
I've shared with you about itbefore and you know, living in
different countries myself andjust watching the political
campaigns and what's happening,I think there's a bit of a
diversion.
At least continental UnitedStates and Japan is different
(17:47):
from this, I'll say.
Islands may be different, romeis very different, turkey is
very different the United Statesbut I think what's happening as
I see it, when I started seeingthis vilification campaign,
where they started talking abouthere, where I am feral, cat
shooting day and that you knowthey're eating up the ground,
foragers and the birds, Istarted looking at where these
(18:10):
studies were coming from andwhere the funding was, and
Monsanto was funding Audubon andI thought you know the
fascinating part is there's one.
Dr Edward (18:21):
Why would Monsanto be funding that kind of research?
What's your thoughts?
That kind of makes me go.
What the heck why?
Shanti Zinzi (18:29):
I think a diversion campaign a little,
because the real, in my opinion,the huge eco-destroyers are the
corporations.
Dr Edward (18:36):
Yeah.
Shanti Zinzi (18:37):
This is the insecticides and the herbicides
and the glyphosates and theatrazine and what's on the food
crop.
That's killing our pollinators.
So even this latestneonicotinoid is just terrifying
, which destroys the nervoussystem of the bee, and one
single.
In America we've got corn cropsand wheat crop One single corn
(18:58):
kernel will kill a songbird or80,000 bees.
But yeah, instead of focusingon the food supply or
agribusiness or agri-corps, wesort of put all of this blame
onto the feline, into domesticfelines.
Now in the United States wehave six wildcats.
So our animals, our birds,they're very used to predators.
(19:22):
Six wild cats, so our, ouranimals are birds, they're very
used to predators.
I'm out there, pretty aware ofwhen there is a predator nearby,
predator nearby, they'rewarning each other.
There's warning, so you know,other than maybe a very young
one who isn't quite aware, um,and is feeding bird, birdseed
off the floor, which a cat caneasily get.
I think we're unfairly it's alittle bit of a.
(19:47):
It's not quite a red herring,but we're taking a percentage of
a truth and we're embellishingit and we're creating a very
divisive narrative that has inthe United States people are at
each other's throats aboutoutdoor cats.
I know that where in Australiait's not even legal to have them
outside and I do have a feelingwe may be moving towards that,
(20:09):
because it is a very inflamedtopic and people aren't really
taking enough time to unpack thenarrative.
I think there's a corporateagenda that's behind it that's
just pointing our attention inone direction.
Dr Edward (20:28):
Well, I hadn't thought of that.
But you know, I know that allthese big companies are very,
very good at misdirection andlook at that, look at that,
rather than noticing whatthey're up to.
And you also mentioned thatthere's a historical kind of
thing where cats have beendemonized going back a long time
(20:49):
.
Yeah, I mean, we go back farenough.
They were back in the egyptiantimes, of course.
Shanti Zinzi (20:53):
They were very much venerated, but then we came
more to european times andthings changed a bit yes, and
that was in the um, medievaltimes, the middle ages, and you
know I do tend to look at, youknow, historically, there's the
ebbs and flows of life andopinions and popular opinions
and domestic cats or I mean Imean, call them domestic cats,
(21:16):
we they, because they befriendedus and we actually made them to
be mousers or, you know,because there was this symbiotic
relationship between cats andhumans, we've taken them across
the globe, we've employed themto eat the mice on ships and
we've taken them to othercountries.
Now we're labeling theminvasive pope at the time where
(21:42):
they were burning people at thestake for witchcraft and
herbalism.
That also mentioned that blackcats were, you know, sort of.
He vilified them in a sensethat they were almost like demon
spawn.
And some historians willactually say that due to the
fact that they were killing catsin Western Europe at the time
that the plague became out ofcontrol, because the black rat
(22:04):
population exploded, becausethere were less cats taking care
of keeping the rodent problemdown, which to me is fascinating
.
I can't say if that's 100%factual reality, but I think
that's a very interestingperspective and of course, yes,
cats became, could have carriedthe plague at the time because
(22:27):
of the fleas, but I just foundthat to be interesting that a
few people had pointed out, incertain countries in europe,
where the animals or the catswere vilified and also burned at
the stake, along with thewitches, that the plague was out
of control and decimated a lotmore humans.
There was a higher mortality inthe humans, which I think
(22:50):
that's just a fascinating thingto explore.
Dr Edward (22:54):
Kind of unintended consequences on steroids, isn't
it?
Yeah, you also have this thingabout.
What was it that you said?
I think you said that you havethis thing about planetary care
(23:19):
for the planet independentplanetary stewardship.
What do you mean by that?
Shanti Zinzi (23:28):
um, I think it's a matter of understanding the
tapestry of life.
I I like to, I mean my mind.
I have the mind of an explorer,so I like to often explore
indigenous paradigms and I think, as a planetary steward, we're
here to protect the planet, itsother sentient life, which of
(23:48):
course includes the domesticanimals, the wild animals, flora
and fauna, and to treat allsentient life with the amount of
reverence we would of our ownfamily.
Dr Edward (24:02):
I love to hear that.
I'm very much in agreement withthat and I think that pretty
much all of humanity's and theplanet's problems would be
rapidly cured if if humanity themajority of humanity could
shift to that mindset.
Shanti Zinzi (24:14):
Yeah, I really do and I you know the sad part.
I did feel there was a time wewere moving toward that.
But you know, post-pandemic,there was a lot of narratives
that happened that were fed tous as we were sitting in front
of computer screens and TVs andour phones and a lot of this
paradigm came down on us thatwas very reductionist, empirical
(24:37):
paradigm that is not veryplanet-friendly, it's not a
steward of the planet, um, thesort of you know this, this,
this narrative that I feel is,is very empirical science
paradigm.
It's not a holistic lens orview, um, of what's happening on
(24:59):
the planet or disease processor even the virus process.
So I feel that we've made alittle bit of a regression in
humanity, that we have to getback on track, because there was
a lot of narrative that cameforward.
You know, suddenly we startedusing a lot of bleach again and
certain endocrine disruptors.
(25:20):
And it just became a very, verydivisive time and now that we're
so polarized, you know, I feellike there's almost like this,
this the psychologist in me isgoing to say Stockholm syndrome,
that we were, all you know, soterrified that we're now like
taking these narratives, and youknow, I mean it's.
It's very volatile here rightnow in the United States,
(25:40):
especially post election.
The left and the right.
A lot of that was created.
I grew up in a city and live ina city now.
That was veryindependent-minded and I don't
find that any longer.
I find suddenly there's a verystrong line of trust to whatever
the corporate mainstreamnarrative is, a very strong line
(26:01):
of trust to whatever thecorporate mainstream narrative
is, and that corporatemainstream narrative, in my
opinion, does not promoteplanetary stewardship.
It promotes a lot ofpolarization between each other
as humans, and how we treatanimals, how we treat the planet
and even boiling down to howwe're viewing our domestic cats.
Dr Edward (26:22):
Well, something that just kind of popped into my mind
while you were talking is thatauthoritarian type thinking is
the opposite of this wholeplanetary stewardship too,
because in all the Indigenouspeoples there was not really an
authoritarian thing, there was avery everyone was part of
(26:42):
everything and everyone is inrelationship to everything else.
I sort of wonder if part of thereason that cats are so
demonized is because they areindependent.
You know they are.
They do not bow to humanauthority whatsoever, whereas
dogs most dogs they're very muchum.
I don't know if subservient isthe right word, but they're very
much um.
I don't know if self-serving isthe right word, but they're
(27:03):
very they.
They look up to humans and dowhatever the humans want,
whereas cats are like well,screw you, I'm a cat, I do what
I want.
What do you think of that?
Do you think that could be partof these deeper dynamics that
affect how humans behave andtheir impact on cats?
Shanti Zinzi (27:21):
that's an excellent point and I think that
that, as you're saying that, itmade me sort of think back to,
like the patriarchy if I cannotcontrol you, I will demonize you
.
You know that goes back to thetimes of women, animals.
You know cats, I mean.
It's a fantastic point.
And yes, dogs have a very packmentality and they're looking
(27:41):
for their kind, gentle leaderwhich is going to hopefully be
their human if the person canstep into the role.
So they absolutely want toplease us.
You know, I personally findcats to be just as affectionate
as dogs and, yes, I'm a catperson, but I think, yes, they
um that that can have a lot todo with it, because they do not
(28:03):
need us, they are not trying toplease us.
So I do think that that is thatdoes affect the psychological
mindset towards them and that'sperhaps part of the demonization
process, as you were saying,saying I mean that could
definitely be a factor there youlook, I love cats.
Dr Edward (28:27):
I've got a cat.
He's big and fluffy and he'snot the smartest cat in the
world, but he thinks he's prettybeautiful and he knows he's
pretty beautiful and he comesand cuddles up with us and he's
very friendly too, but at sametime he's very different to the
dogs, very, very different.
So what do you tell people?
To help keep their cats healthy?
(28:48):
Now, if people are constrainedand here in Australia cats are
not a native animal, mind you,there's 5 billion feral cats all
over Australia.
So why they're demonising thedomestic cats, I don't know
either quite it doesn't makemuch rational sense.
But no, your country there'snative cats, so that shouldn't
(29:11):
be such a problem.
But what do you?
What's your advice?
How can people change what theydo with indoor cats, if they do
have these constraints, tohopefully not make them sick
early and die young?
Shanti Zinzi (29:25):
well, I, I think there's some.
There's a different, likefoundation practices, right,
right, our relationship withtouch, which is your fantastic
web program, um, how we'reactually, uh, how we're feeding
them.
So, you know, obviouslypromoting a, a non-processed
diet, raw diet or home cookeddiet, feline, biologically
(29:47):
appropriate.
I think we need to take theoutside elements into the home.
If they have to be, you know,if it's deemed legal, they have
to be inside, or the personprefers it that way.
Take the outdoor element intothe inside and to me that looks
like lots of plants, whetherthey're native plants to the
(30:09):
area or plants that are actuallysuch as, uh, some like moss,
boston, ivs, the, what they callthe snake plant.
There's a lot of plants that areactually cleaning formaldehyde
out of the air.
So, I think, green up the homeand it, you know, apparently, I
mean there's a lot, it's a lotof plants.
It takes a green thumb, butthere was a particular study
(30:31):
that was saying, well, to getthe air completely clean inside
the home, what would you need?
And you probably need one plantfor every square foot of home
but it's a lot of plants, butimagine how fresh the air would
be.
So I ask people to you know,green up as much as I can.
You can add the catnip whetheror not they like catnip or
(30:53):
certain herbs that areattractive to cats.
Bring the soil into the home.
I mean this could just be potsof soil, vats of soil that you
know that they're actually canroll around in it, that they're
getting some kind of benefitfrom actual soil.
There's so many, like we weresaying a little earlier, the
beneficial soil organisms thatexist in soil that we're
(31:15):
deprived of.
Keep the windows open as much asyou can, four to eight hours a
day, preferable I mean that'salways weather dependent so that
they can actually smell what'sgoing on outside.
There's so much in that vomeralnasal organ that they're
registering.
There's even a sense of timewhere they can tell you know,
(31:36):
last week there was coyotes orparticular wildlife that passed
by two weeks ago last night.
I mean there's so muchinformation that's cognitively
stimulating them if they'reaccessing that fresh air.
I ask people if they can.
You know there's a fewcertifications for clean that
(32:00):
are green certifications.
Whatever they're taking intothe home, what is the gots um
certification for textiles?
yeah, there's another one that'sfor sofa.
You know organic products thataren't, that are okay for the
home, that um, uh, that areregistering it's not really
dangerous amount of emissionsand there's, um, certain things
(32:23):
that you could find like thatare baby blankets for humans,
because a lot of moms are prettyconcerned that their babies are
breathing flame retardants andabsorbing it through their skin.
So instead of investing in allthese like plastic toys and
these, these cat beds and allthese things that we think are
spoiling our cats, we shouldjust go out into nature and get
(32:45):
some leaves and pick up sometwigs and get some soil and, you
know, let them play with thingsthat are, um, are found in
nature that they find quitestimulating and attract the
birds.
If you like.
You know you could if you wantto put a feeder.
I mean, there's always someproblems with that because of
bird flu but, like in my area,we have a native hummingbird, so
(33:06):
all we do is we put some pinkflowers or a bougainvillea out
in the window and thehummingbirds one that lives here
year-round will be feedingthere.
So the hummingbird is safe onthe other side of the window and
the cat is entertained yeah, soyou've got that's enrichment
right.
Dr Edward (33:26):
So you're bringing the outdoors indoor in a way
like plant life is not justenrichment, it's also cleaning
the air, but bringing thingsfrom nature into the cat's life
inside the home to make adifference yes, definitely, and
I think for their health too.
Shanti Zinzi (33:44):
You know, we have to be very aware of gas
appliances um there's benzene,nitrogen dioxide, carbon
monoxide, and we're getting alot more than we think we are if
we have gas appliances.
This is a terrible fact andthis is a reason why it's
outlawed in new york city.
If you're buying, if you'rebuilding a brand new um
apartment structure or complex,you're no longer allowed to use
(34:06):
gas appliances because of howit's harming human health.
So pets are getting it beforewe are.
So I always advise people and Ido it myself is invest in one
that pilots use, because it's alot more sensitive for carbon
monoxide detector and you canalso clean the air with those
not a HEPA filter, but thoseheavy-duty carbon filter air
(34:30):
filters such as IQ Air, which ismade in Switzerland, or Air
Pure, which is made in Canada Ithink it's about like a 22 or
23-pound filter, and it'll cleansmoke and formaldehyde and
different things out of theactual air for every 500 square
feet of space.
Dr Edward (34:51):
And you can use ionizers, I would imagine too,
to increase the vitality and thehealth of the air in the house.
Yes, and I suppose you know,buy organic, non-toxic.
Get rid of artificialfragrances out of your life,
because they're I find themdreadful for me and they're a
terrible, terrible thing foranimals.
Shanti Zinzi (35:12):
Yeah, and it's fascinating because you know
it's some of us, some peoplewith chronic illness are
incredibly sensitive and youknow I'm always saying, well,
you know, that's actually a giftbecause we're realizing that
these poisons are affecting us.
So it's actually as terrible asit makes us feel our body's
giving us a gift to sensitize usto that.
But, yes, as much as you can,get the cleaners out and if you
(35:37):
have to have these particularproducts which most people put
under their kitchen sink in theUnited States, I always ask them
to buy an airtight containerand store it outside of the home
so that it's not affecting theair in the home If you need a
bleach, but if we go back tobaking soda, white vinegar and
lemon there's a lot, you know,like a sort of these natural
(36:00):
cleaning products.
It's going to save ourrespiratory system.
It's going to save our lungs.
It's going to save our immunesystem.
To save our respiratory system,it's going to save our lungs.
It's going to save our immunesystem.
It's going to save our cats.
And these corporations that aremaking billions of dollars off
of us are, you know, going tohave to change their game plan
with what they're offering thepublic what about taking cats
(36:21):
for walks?
Dr Edward (36:22):
is that a good idea?
Shanti Zinzi (36:23):
I think it's great .
I think my very first cat, youknow I found her in was
Washington Square Park in NewYork City.
She moved around all over theworld.
She moved to Japan, she movedto San Francisco with me and I
took her on walks, I took her ona harness, but she was the type
you know there's a continuum inthe personality the very shy,
terrified, stranger danger cats,it's going to be very hard to
(36:46):
do.
But very shy, terrified,stranger danger cats, it's going
to be very hard to do.
But those very social animalsyou can train them.
And I think you know there'scertain times a day, like I
would maybe go out at 10pm and Ihad a great big gentle
Rottweiler, take the two of themout and I wouldn't go very far
because she didn quite, you know, walk very far, but we just go
(37:07):
outside and sit outside and sheloved it so, if you can do, it,
I think it's great.
Or when people have decks orlanai or even those small areas
in the yard, such as people willput up those catios, which are
fantastic.
They're protecting the wildlifeis not being accessed and the
(37:28):
cats can breathe that freshoutdoor air and see this entire,
the cornucopia of life that isactually out there, with the
insects and the trees and thebreezes and all those chemical
messages that are on the breezesthat are so important for them.
They have direct access to thatand we don't have to worry
about occupying them like we'rea dog.
(37:49):
So for me, a dog's a lot morework and I love dogs but, having
to entertain them cognitivelyis a little bit exhausting where
a cat is so much easier that'sthe beauty of the cat, being a
more independent kind ofcreature, right yes, there you
go, that's right okay, I think.
Dr Edward (38:09):
Is there anything else that you'd like to to share
with everyone that might helppeople with indoor pets, give
them the best life possible?
Shanti Zinzi (38:19):
um, I think you know, if you maybe clean water
right, whatever you're, however,you're giving them, putting the
water or food in, for example,I think the best product would
be a food grade stainless steelor glass because of whatever can
be.
You know, if there's a chip inthat ceramic plate, then there's
(38:40):
an actual lead glaze that'sinside ceramic that's going to
be leaching into their food ortheir water.
So if we can make consciouschoices as far as you know
everything they have access tokeep the dust to an absolute
minimum, because these chemicalsand molds will actually stick
to the dust and where the catsare we're not seeing that that
(39:00):
those dust particles.
I think if we can keep that toa basic minimum, remember their
cognitive stimulation, be veryaware of the relationship of,
will really, I think, raise ourawareness to what's happening
inside our animals.
So I think if we have thesebasic foundations covered, we're
(39:42):
going to have very happyanimals.
Dr Edward (39:45):
Beautiful.
Yeah, I love cats and you knowanyone out there who has got a
hate on cats.
Maybe you could just chill outa little bit and appreciate them
for the independent wildcreatures they are.
I think one of the things aboutcats, too, is that they've
still got more of the wild inthem than dogs and dogs and, you
(40:10):
know, maybe that's anotherreason they get demonized,
because they actually are morewild and and free and and
humanity struggles with thatsometimes.
Shanti Zinzi (40:18):
I think yeah, I agree with you, um, and you know
I always say you know, whenpeople think they're these top
predators, I'm like you know,it's not a mountain lion, it's
not a tiger, our coyotes.
Here and even just on my cornerI have a family of great horned
owls which are enormous, andthey are taking the neighbors'
pans and chickens and theyactually have taken kittens.
(40:39):
So you know, it's a whole canof worms, but cats are not top
of the food chain in the UnitedStates.
So I think we have to reallykind of look at that argument
about that eco-destroyers andreally put that into perspective
(41:01):
and realize that you know, whenwe're emotionally charged about
a certain issue which of coursewe all want to save the
environment and ecology andwildlife and these small animals
we have to really disengagethat emotional aspect and look
deeper into what's actuallyhappening and realize all
(41:22):
sentient life there's a tapestryof wonder here that exists
where our pets, our animals, ourcats, you know the flora, the
fauna ourselves, and if we couldjust offer respect and care
that, um, there would be a lothappier planet it would be.
Dr Edward (41:44):
So we're going to close up with a couple of
questions, and the first one iskind of the wake-up call what do
you think is humans biggestblind spot when it comes to our
shared journey of evolution andhealing and wellness?
Shanti Zinzi (41:56):
well, this kind of dovetails a little into what I
was saying earlier aboutmainstream narratives and
corporate narratives.
I you know there's a lot of.
What's happened in Westernreality is there was a monopoly
on our thinking process.
From indigenous reality of howwe see the earth, how we see
(42:18):
medicine and healing, thatbecame an allopathic model.
That has monopolized ourthinking and it is an empirical,
reductionist model that willmeasure the world through the
five senses.
That does not measure mind orconsciousness.
Healing does not happen withoutmind or consciousness or the
soul.
So for me, when we listen tothese narratives, I think it's
(42:43):
what's?
It's harming us, it's harmingthe planet.
I think that's my biggest,probably one of my biggest
issues of contention, becausethere's major corporations that
have studied us and masspsychology to sell us their
products and to really create um.
I think what I would consider afear model that is.
(43:14):
I mean, I just see it as anoutgrowth of the patriarchy.
It is not a model oftogetherness or a model, an
earth conscious model, but amore of a um, a corporate model.
I mean, what are they trying tosell us and who is benefiting
from that?
Dr Edward (43:33):
Well, not the average human being, not any of the
animals, not the environment,just a few people making large
amounts of money.
Shanti Zinzi (43:43):
The billionaires right, just the billionaires
getting richer as the earth isstruggling more and our animals
and our humans are struggling.
Dr Edward (43:52):
And what is the change that you want to be and
inspire others to be in thisworld?
Shanti Zinzi (43:59):
Well, I think I sort of always went to the gym.
You know a different beat.
But I'd like to inspire changein the way of getting people
back to their innate nature ofintelligence, inner intelligence
, of connectedness and trustingtheir inner voice.
(44:19):
That I think it's specificallyin the Western paradigm and in
schools it's programmed out ofus.
You know, we're taught to sitin these desks and look in these
computers and everything iskept in a box as opposed to
going from a heart sense whereyou know our heart is even more
(44:40):
powerful than the brain.
Our electromagnetic waves fromour heart, what we're getting
out of.
To listen to those voices thatare coming from inside of us,
our intuition, and to read fromthat To protect what is under
your responsibility, whetherit's your child and you're not
agreeing with something yourpediatrician's telling you, or
(45:02):
if you don't think it's properto put the insecticide on your
cat every 30 days because that'scancer causing.
I think we need to go back tolistening to ourselves, because
the answers are in our elders,they're in our indigenous
populations.
Those of us that went throughthe shamanic healing are
(45:23):
children, our children.
There's an innocence there thatis very connected to life and
the flowers and seeing thesacredness in the life around us
that unfortunately getsbrainwashed out of us.
So I'd like for us to go backto that.
There's a bit of an innocencethere, but there's an extreme
intelligence that is veryrespectful to the planet and I
(45:44):
think that is the only thingthat will save the planet moving
forward, or at least theecosystems.
I mean, the earth will be herelong after the humans are gone,
but the ecosystems will save.
That Is that indigenousknowledge that is innate and
intuitive to us.
That is what I would considermore of a heart knowledge.
And if we have a brain, heartcoherence which is just not
(46:05):
using one part of the brain,just not the neocortex, but all
engaging the entire aspect ofthe brain, the cells in the body
, the entire, you know that ourliver I mean in chinese medicine
we feel this.
We're getting information inour liver, in our spleen, and
you know you look at differentlanguages.
In the italian language theytalk about feeling things in
their liver and you know you canresonate that.
(46:26):
They talk about feeling thingsin their liver and you know you
can resonate that in how theChinese see things in their
liver.
Or I feel that in my spleen andI think that speaks of an inner
intelligence there that is sortof come out of the language
that we're not using any longer.
So the more we get back to that, I think, the more we get back
(46:50):
to that, I think, I feel likethe road forward will be better
for all life.
Dr Edward (46:53):
I agree and that is music to my ears what you're
saying, and I hope that ifthere's anyone out there
listening who hasn't heard somuch of this kind of viewpoint
that you let that soak in andyou wonder what it could be like
to get back to your innate,intuitive, empathic, indigenous
kind of art that sees everythingas alive and worthy of being in
(47:17):
healthy relationship with, andI think if we can all do that,
wow, who knows what could happen?
Shanti Zinzi (47:23):
Yeah, and you know , the thing I find is
interesting is a lot of peopleare being shamed out of this
because they're worried aboutcultural appropriation.
And when I told people there,we all have our ancestors and
all of our ancestors had naturalherbal medicine in earth
consciousness.
It doesn't matter if you arefrom russia or europe or latin
(47:43):
america or anywhere Africa onthe planet, they all were
natural medicine doctors in ourancestry and they were all very
connected.
So it's not culturalappropriation.
Shamans existed, for example,throughout the entire planet.
So I think sometimes, like Ifind this in the younger
(48:04):
generation they're feelingshamed by that cultural
appropriation.
I think, no, you know, so, areyou Russian?
Well, there are so manyshamanic, there's so much
shamanic wisdom in Russia.
You just have to get in touchwith their ancestry, just follow
that line back.
But there's, you know, as CarlJung would say, the collective
unconscious that exists indifferent parts of the planet
(48:28):
and there's the truth to everyculture and every land.
And you know one point we wereall from africa, we migrated
outward, um, but I, I, I don'twant people to, oh, I don't want
the young generation to getshamed out of following certain
paths.
Dr Edward (48:46):
I hear you and thank you so much for your time and
energy today.
I really appreciate it.
It's been a really interestingconversation.
Let's do everything we can tomake our indoor cats happy.
We're lucky here that my cat isan indoor-outdoor cat.
We live in an old home thatdoesn't have a whole lot of
those kind of toxic issues, sowe do have a gastro.
But thank you, I reallyappreciate it.
(49:10):
It's been a broad-ranging,really interesting conversation
and for all of you out therelistening, I hope you've enjoyed
it and I hope to see you backin the next episode.
Shanti Zinzi (49:20):
Thank you, dr Edward, it was wonderful.
Dr Edward (49:22):
Thanks, Anne.
Shanti Zinzi (49:23):
I appreciate it so much.
Hello and welcome to the Whole Energy Body Balance
podcast.
Today we're exploring the lifeof the indoor cat with Shanti
Zinzi, who is very passionateabout cats and I love cats too,
so we're going to have lots offun, so welcome.
This podcast is a place wherewe explore all kinds of
(00:23):
possibilities and practices thatbring greater healing,
connection and harmony to pets,people and horses, and we aim to
inspire you, to hopefullychallenge you a little bit.
If you want to grow and createpositive changes in your life
and in the lives of the beingsthat you care for, you are in
the right place.
I'm your host, dr EdwardHealing Vet.
I help deeply caring people,pets and horses unfold profound
(00:47):
healing and healthyrelationships through using the
whole energy body balance method, which is a modality.
I've created kind training andI practice as a holistic,
integrative, intuitiveveterinarian all around the
world and in person.
So I'd love to welcome, try andorganise.
(01:11):
We've had all sorts oftechnical challenges today.
The computers and things havenot been working for us.
So Shanti Zinti is anexperienced holistic feline
behaviour therapist with adiverse background that spans
decades in veterinary practices,animal shelters, sanctuaries
and wildlands, and her studiesencompass a whole lot of natural
(01:35):
, ancient medicine, feline andhuman psychology and behavior,
as well as independent planetarystewardship.
So we're going to start offwith a big question, because big
questions always are a goodplace to start with, I think,
anyway.
So, shandi, who are you, why doyou do what you do and how did
you get to this point in yourlife?
Shanti Zinzi (01:59):
Dr Edward, thank you, delightful to be able to be
here with you today and myjourney was pretty circuitous.
I always wanted to go into theveterinary field in some
capacity but working inveterinary practices as a very
young person I realized I wantedto find a different path, find
(02:29):
a different path and I studiedpsychology and behavior
postgraduate and somatics andsimultaneously worked at
veterinary practices in sheltersand did a lot of an internship
in holistic hospice and rescueda lot of animals and it
organically came about that Iwas applying a lot of what I was
(02:52):
learning to the animals thatwere slated for euthanasia,
rehoming them and went on tostudy, worked for a fantastic
pioneer that was a great in tcvmand inspired me to study
postgraduate chinese medicineand in california, um, if it's
(03:12):
veterinary approved and theperson has enough training as
far as anatomy, physiology ofdomestic animals, we can
practice at veterinary practiceswith the vet.
So it's been a really wonderfuljourney getting here and very
circuitous.
It feels like the path was laidfor me and also because I
(03:33):
refuse to accept a bit of thatreductionist paradigm which I
felt.
You know there's more of atapestry of life and where we
were strong, we were sort ofstrong-arming our animals in the
1990s.
That I felt was quite traumaticand um for them and I thought
(03:53):
there is another way that ismore earth conscious, animal
conscious, um, that canfacilitate healing and along the
way I've met some amazingpioneers in the field, in
holistic medicine and um.
Here I am today.
I I mean I'm I'm not as activein it now, I'm sort of more
(04:15):
working with wildlife, but I'mhappy to return to the field and
help the animals and the catsand the dogs.
Dr Edward (04:28):
And cats are a real passion for you.
Yeah, you really reallyresonate with cats.
Shanti Zinzi (04:31):
Well, I mean I love dogs just as much.
I think I just because of thevacuum in the field.
I mean there was really avacuum here in the eighties and
nineties and there I rememberbeing in, you know, in the
middle of an exam and peoplewould say, oh, my cats are
fighting, there's the abscesses,and people were told like let
them work it out, and I justintuitively knew that wasn't the
(04:54):
right thing, but I think therewas just a lack of, maybe there
was a lack of understanding orvacuum and understanding in the
field, so it sort of created myniche in feline behavior.
And then working a lot withbehavioral animals at the animal
(05:15):
shelter in San Francisco, inthe government shelter,
preparing them for theirbehavior tests and exams,
working with the disenfranchisedpopulation that really couldn't
afford to see veterinarians, soif they needed to introduce a
new animal to the household orthey had behavioral problems at
home, I was often called upon toassist them.
Dr Edward (05:37):
Okay, so I'm in small animal practice, holistic small
animal practice.
I reckon I'd be lucky to seeone cat for every 20 dogs, and
that's been a bit of a commontheme.
You know, right across my wholecareer I see way way more dogs
than cats in veterinary practiceand I kind of wonder if that's
(05:59):
another reflection of the samekind of dynamic that you're
talking about, in that cats justdon't necessarily get the same
level of care as dogs do rightacross the board well, I think I
mean thinking back into like my, the original, like employment
place as I was working.
Shanti Zinzi (06:18):
There was a fair amount of both I think.
Um, yeah, I think there wasn't.
I mean mean in the UnitedStates I mean dogs are quite
popular and cats sort of go inand out of fashion.
I think you know sort of thedomestic animal, which one is
preferred.
Cats are a little bit easier.
Often, you know, in apartmentspeople can't have dogs or large
(06:41):
dogs, or it's landlordprohibitive.
But I think I mean there, therethere seemed to be like at
least I think back into likesort of animal shelter time.
There was many dog volunteers,many, many animals, many people
taking care of the dogs, butthere weren't as many for the
felines or the small animals.
(07:03):
So I just always sort of go towhere I'm needed and I just felt
like that path just unfoldedfor me.
You know, you just sort of youfind your way.
Yeah, I do think there was afair amount of dogs and cats in
all the practices that Iactually had worked at or or,
(07:25):
you know, at the animal sheltermight be a bit more that way in
australia perhaps.
Dr Edward (07:31):
So today we're really digging into exploring the life
of the indoor cat and the kindof pressures, too, I think, that
mean that a lot of cats areindoor and and don't have access
to the outdoor.
So I'm really curious aboutwhat you've got to share with us
on what you're saying is aneglected area that can really
(07:53):
affect feline health.
Shanti Zinzi (07:55):
Well, thank you so much for the opportunity to
share that, and you know I watcha lot of trends and things that
change and there's a sentimentthat oh, oh, the indoor cat is
so much safer yet as time isgoing on here, especially here
they're dying younger and notnecessarily meaning they're at
the getting you know annualvaccines just some of them are
(08:17):
not even getting the flea tick,insecticide being indoor animals
and people have a lot moreawareness and consciousness of
raw diets and healthy,home-cooked diets and they're
not choosing dry food.
So I sort of am looking furtherinto this and realizing, as,
where I live in San Francisco,we're going through these
economic, you know, booms andwhat's happening with
(08:42):
development is I started seeingin the past, maybe 14-15 years,
lung cancer in cats which I'venever seen before, which even in
dogs, I mean, I had never seenit before.
The particular people I wasworking with or the vets I was
working for, they hadn't seen iteither.
So that sort of turned on aswitch and realizing the amount
(09:04):
of development and fineparticulate matter and whatever
was going on in the homesformaldehyde, with all these
whatever we're you know usingfor building material,
fungicides, you know, flameretardants and these things that
(09:25):
they're exposed to indoors,that they're not necessarily
breathing outside and there wasa study that went on in 2023
that was measuring thesechemicals in the urine of dogs
and the urine of cats and it wasfound that cats have 23 times
the amount of flame retardantsthan dogs do.
(09:45):
Wow, yeah, it's prettyfascinating.
But how I'm understanding that,or how I'm making sense of that,
is we're bringing all these newproducts, cheap fashion sofas
and these things that aresprayed with flame retardant
into our homes cat beds.
They are breathing that.
Their noses are so close to it.
They are also getting it ontheir coats and they're
(10:08):
ingesting it.
Most people keep their.
You know they may have an HVACsystem and they're not.
The cats are not breathing thefresh air, so they're breathing
this stale, polluted indoor airand we're not realizing how much
that's affecting us andaffecting them.
And, as I see it, they're justlike birds.
That's affecting us andaffecting them and, as I see it,
they're just like birds.
They're quite sensitive and abit of the canary in the coal
(10:31):
mine, and it's said that whatcould happen to us in a couple
of decades can happen to a catin two to three years Disease
process.
Dr Edward (10:39):
Oh wow, Just say that again.
I think that's important.
Shanti Zinzi (10:44):
Yeah, I think so too, and this is a lot about
indoor chemicals and indoortoxins and what is actually in
the air.
So what can affect a cat in twoto three years?
So this could be thyroiddisease, cancer, asthma.
Taking that long to build withcumulative assaults can take a
human a couple of decades.
Dr Edward (11:06):
So you're thinking you might take a dog you know
five or six years, rather than acat, two or three.
I would think, yeah, dogs are abit more resilient to this kind
of thing, I presume.
Shanti Zinzi (11:17):
And dogs are going outside.
We're taking them out, we'rewalking them, yeah Right.
So I think that has a lot to dowith it and I think about it
too is, you know when?
we're out there taking our dogsfor walks, you know we're
literally interacting with well,they're interacting with
beneficial soil organisms, whichthe cats are not indoors.
(11:39):
There's phytoncides that arereleased from oaks and cedars
and cypress and pine trees,phytoncides that are released
from oaks and cedars and cypressand pine trees, and as we're
inhaling these essential oilsand phytoncides, which are the
antifungals of these trees andthe antimicrobials, we breathe
them, they interact with theimmune system and they enhance
natural killer cells.
So that's an anti-cancer, sowhat the Japanese have always
(12:02):
called forest bathing.
And now we're finally catchingon in the Western mind and
Western science that we areliterally enhancing our immune
system, enhancing the naturalkiller cells from breathing what
our trees are emitting.
And it's dogs going for walks,the same their feet are in the
(12:24):
soil, their paws they'rebreathing this fresh air.
They're interacting, they'rerolling around in the soil with
beneficial soil organisms andthe indoor cat does not have
access to these things that'strue, isn't it?
Dr Edward (12:39):
and cats have evolved to be outside.
You know, and I think we well,I think the same thing is true
for us humans and dogs andeveryone we.
We are not evolved to live in alittle box with artificial
lighting and artificial emfs and, like you said, an incredibly
high toxic load in a lot ofhomes, and I think new homes are
(13:00):
probably these days got a muchhigher toxic load than older
homes too yeah, incredibly high.
Shanti Zinzi (13:07):
The older homes they deal with like mold often
and the newer homes the toxinsare incredibly high.
New windows they'll off gas fortwo years.
Any new product, any new paintsit's about a two-year
off-gassing process.
And what we're not quite, youknow, aware, you know or
conscious of, like our animals,have hundreds, millions more
(13:29):
scent receptor cells in theirnose.
They're so incredibly sensitiveand they come into life.
Our kittens come into the world.
They don't see, but they'resmelling for their mom and the
queen.
It's a very strong, uhdeveloped sense there.
So I the another fascinatingthing is they have, apparently,
(13:52):
cats.
They just said that there's aparticular protein receptor, the
v1r, that humans have two andit differentiates between smells
.
Cat dogs have about nine andcats have 30, so cats can be
better at search and rescue anddogs.
I mean, it's just a matter oftraining them, and the animal
(14:13):
that has the highest is our rats, which, um, in africa they
actually do have.
Rats do search and rescue andthey're better at it than dogs
because they can get into smallplaces.
But I think, you know, if wejust take that into our
consciousness and we realize howimportant their noses are, they
have a vomeronasal organ.
There's so much informationthat is coming into their little
(14:36):
bodies.
So air quality, indoor air,what's happening in the homes,
is vitally important to theirhealth and their well-being, as
well as their behavior and theircognitive awareness.
You know, if we're, if they'rein the homes and all the windows
are shut, they're we're notstimulating their nasal organs.
(14:57):
So I just always ask people toopen up the windows and let them
smell what's going on outside,you know.
So get cross breeze and freshair.
Dr Edward (15:08):
And it's just a little bit.
You know, if it's cold you canstill.
Shanti Zinzi (15:11):
I kind of like a lot, you know, when I think
about it, because when I look athomes, we often and again, I'm
not really quite sure adifferent part of the world.
It's different A lot of peopleare.
There's a stack effect thathappens in buildings, people
love to store things in theirgarages and the you know the
VOCs, the high VOCs, the paintthinner, all the chemicals the
(15:32):
varnishes and that you know ifthere's a change in the
atmosphere, of pressure, or evenif you're closing your garage
door, all that stuff comes upthrough the ventilation system,
through the floorboards, comesright into the house.
Generally the top floor gets alot of that.
So you know if you're in atwo-family, if you're a
particular high-rise or whereveryou're living, what's going on
(15:54):
below you is coming up and theanimals and our cats are
breathing all of that on top ofsynthetic carpeting and whatever
cleaners or chemicals orfragrances that we're putting on
.
You know our our hands peopleare using nail varnish, all
kinds of cleaners and thesedifferent agents that I don't
(16:19):
think we have a consciousawareness of how this affects
the neuroimmune system andreally affects the thyroid.
It affects the respiratorysystem and no wonder there's an
epidemic of asthma in our cats.
Dr Edward (16:30):
Yeah, I totally agree .
I think too.
Another thing to consider isthat these volatile organic
compounds are absorbed not onlythrough scent, but through every
single bit of the skin, andcats have a larger surface area
to volume ratio than most dogsand humans, so they actually
absorb a whole lot more rightand they're right.
Shanti Zinzi (16:51):
And they're ingesting it right, because
they're continually grooming, sothey're actually whatever is
resting on the outside of theirfur they're actually swallowing.
Dr Edward (16:59):
So I feel like they're getting a bit of a
triple whammy here with uh toxinload yes, so um, I suppose
another reason that cats areindoors is that cats get a bit
of a bum rap.
In today's world, they're notthe most popular creature, right
they?
People seem to kind of saynasty things about cats.
(17:22):
A lot of people have a hate oncats, so I'd love you to explore
that a little bit.
Shanti Zinzi (17:26):
Yeah, well, I have a very passionate opinion which
I've shared with you about itbefore and you know, living in
different countries myself andjust watching the political
campaigns and what's happening,I think there's a bit of a
diversion.
At least continental UnitedStates and Japan is different
(17:47):
from this, I'll say.
Islands may be different, romeis very different, turkey is
very different the United Statesbut I think what's happening as
I see it, when I started seeingthis vilification campaign,
where they started talking abouthere, where I am feral, cat
shooting day and that you knowthey're eating up the ground,
foragers and the birds, Istarted looking at where these
(18:10):
studies were coming from andwhere the funding was, and
Monsanto was funding Audubon andI thought you know the
fascinating part is there's one.
Dr Edward (18:21):
Why would Monsanto be funding that kind of research?
What's your thoughts?
That kind of makes me go.
What the heck why?
Shanti Zinzi (18:29):
I think a diversion campaign a little,
because the real, in my opinion,the huge eco-destroyers are the
corporations.
Dr Edward (18:36):
Yeah.
Shanti Zinzi (18:37):
This is the insecticides and the herbicides
and the glyphosates and theatrazine and what's on the food
crop.
That's killing our pollinators.
So even this latestneonicotinoid is just terrifying
, which destroys the nervoussystem of the bee, and one
single.
In America we've got corn cropsand wheat crop One single corn
(18:58):
kernel will kill a songbird or80,000 bees.
But yeah, instead of focusingon the food supply or
agribusiness or agri-corps, wesort of put all of this blame
onto the feline, into domesticfelines.
Now in the United States wehave six wildcats.
So our animals, our birds,they're very used to predators.
(19:22):
Six wild cats, so our, ouranimals are birds, they're very
used to predators.
I'm out there, pretty aware ofwhen there is a predator nearby,
predator nearby, they'rewarning each other.
There's warning, so you know,other than maybe a very young
one who isn't quite aware, um,and is feeding bird, birdseed
off the floor, which a cat caneasily get.
I think we're unfairly it's alittle bit of a.
(19:47):
It's not quite a red herring,but we're taking a percentage of
a truth and we're embellishingit and we're creating a very
divisive narrative that has inthe United States people are at
each other's throats aboutoutdoor cats.
I know that where in Australiait's not even legal to have them
outside and I do have a feelingwe may be moving towards that,
(20:09):
because it is a very inflamedtopic and people aren't really
taking enough time to unpack thenarrative.
I think there's a corporateagenda that's behind it that's
just pointing our attention inone direction.
Dr Edward (20:28):
Well, I hadn't thought of that.
But you know, I know that allthese big companies are very,
very good at misdirection andlook at that, look at that,
rather than noticing whatthey're up to.
And you also mentioned thatthere's a historical kind of
thing where cats have beendemonized going back a long time
(20:49):
.
Yeah, I mean, we go back farenough.
They were back in the egyptiantimes, of course.
Shanti Zinzi (20:53):
They were very much venerated, but then we came
more to european times andthings changed a bit yes, and
that was in the um, medievaltimes, the middle ages, and you
know I do tend to look at, youknow, historically, there's the
ebbs and flows of life andopinions and popular opinions
and domestic cats or I mean Imean, call them domestic cats,
(21:16):
we they, because they befriendedus and we actually made them to
be mousers or, you know,because there was this symbiotic
relationship between cats andhumans, we've taken them across
the globe, we've employed themto eat the mice on ships and
we've taken them to othercountries.
Now we're labeling theminvasive pope at the time where
(21:42):
they were burning people at thestake for witchcraft and
herbalism.
That also mentioned that blackcats were, you know, sort of.
He vilified them in a sensethat they were almost like demon
spawn.
And some historians willactually say that due to the
fact that they were killing catsin Western Europe at the time
that the plague became out ofcontrol, because the black rat
(22:04):
population exploded, becausethere were less cats taking care
of keeping the rodent problemdown, which to me is fascinating
.
I can't say if that's 100%factual reality, but I think
that's a very interestingperspective and of course, yes,
cats became, could have carriedthe plague at the time because
(22:27):
of the fleas, but I just foundthat to be interesting that a
few people had pointed out, incertain countries in europe,
where the animals or the catswere vilified and also burned at
the stake, along with thewitches, that the plague was out
of control and decimated a lotmore humans.
There was a higher mortality inthe humans, which I think
(22:50):
that's just a fascinating thingto explore.
Dr Edward (22:54):
Kind of unintended consequences on steroids, isn't
it?
Yeah, you also have this thingabout.
What was it that you said?
I think you said that you havethis thing about planetary care
(23:19):
for the planet independentplanetary stewardship.
What do you mean by that?
Shanti Zinzi (23:28):
um, I think it's a matter of understanding the
tapestry of life.
I I like to, I mean my mind.
I have the mind of an explorer,so I like to often explore
indigenous paradigms and I think, as a planetary steward, we're
here to protect the planet, itsother sentient life, which of
(23:48):
course includes the domesticanimals, the wild animals, flora
and fauna, and to treat allsentient life with the amount of
reverence we would of our ownfamily.
Dr Edward (24:02):
I love to hear that.
I'm very much in agreement withthat and I think that pretty
much all of humanity's and theplanet's problems would be
rapidly cured if if humanity themajority of humanity could
shift to that mindset.
Shanti Zinzi (24:14):
Yeah, I really do and I you know the sad part.
I did feel there was a time wewere moving toward that.
But you know, post-pandemic,there was a lot of narratives
that happened that were fed tous as we were sitting in front
of computer screens and TVs andour phones and a lot of this
paradigm came down on us thatwas very reductionist, empirical
(24:37):
paradigm that is not veryplanet-friendly, it's not a
steward of the planet, um, thesort of you know this, this,
this narrative that I feel is,is very empirical science
paradigm.
It's not a holistic lens orview, um, of what's happening on
(24:59):
the planet or disease processor even the virus process.
So I feel that we've made alittle bit of a regression in
humanity, that we have to getback on track, because there was
a lot of narrative that cameforward.
You know, suddenly we startedusing a lot of bleach again and
certain endocrine disruptors.
(25:20):
And it just became a very, verydivisive time and now that we're
so polarized, you know, I feellike there's almost like this,
this the psychologist in me isgoing to say Stockholm syndrome,
that we were, all you know, soterrified that we're now like
taking these narratives, and youknow, I mean it's.
It's very volatile here rightnow in the United States,
(25:40):
especially post election.
The left and the right.
A lot of that was created.
I grew up in a city and live ina city now.
That was veryindependent-minded and I don't
find that any longer.
I find suddenly there's a verystrong line of trust to whatever
the corporate mainstreamnarrative is, a very strong line
(26:01):
of trust to whatever thecorporate mainstream narrative
is, and that corporatemainstream narrative, in my
opinion, does not promoteplanetary stewardship.
It promotes a lot ofpolarization between each other
as humans, and how we treatanimals, how we treat the planet
and even boiling down to howwe're viewing our domestic cats.
Dr Edward (26:22):
Well, something that just kind of popped into my mind
while you were talking is thatauthoritarian type thinking is
the opposite of this wholeplanetary stewardship too,
because in all the Indigenouspeoples there was not really an
authoritarian thing, there was avery everyone was part of
(26:42):
everything and everyone is inrelationship to everything else.
I sort of wonder if part of thereason that cats are so
demonized is because they areindependent.
You know they are.
They do not bow to humanauthority whatsoever, whereas
dogs most dogs they're very muchum.
I don't know if subservient isthe right word, but they're very
much um.
I don't know if self-serving isthe right word, but they're
(27:03):
very they.
They look up to humans and dowhatever the humans want,
whereas cats are like well,screw you, I'm a cat, I do what
I want.
What do you think of that?
Do you think that could be partof these deeper dynamics that
affect how humans behave andtheir impact on cats?
Shanti Zinzi (27:21):
that's an excellent point and I think that
that, as you're saying that, itmade me sort of think back to,
like the patriarchy if I cannotcontrol you, I will demonize you
.
You know that goes back to thetimes of women, animals.
You know cats, I mean.
It's a fantastic point.
And yes, dogs have a very packmentality and they're looking
(27:41):
for their kind, gentle leaderwhich is going to hopefully be
their human if the person canstep into the role.
So they absolutely want toplease us.
You know, I personally findcats to be just as affectionate
as dogs and, yes, I'm a catperson, but I think, yes, they
um that that can have a lot todo with it, because they do not
(28:03):
need us, they are not trying toplease us.
So I do think that that is thatdoes affect the psychological
mindset towards them and that'sperhaps part of the demonization
process, as you were saying,saying I mean that could
definitely be a factor there youlook, I love cats.
Dr Edward (28:27):
I've got a cat.
He's big and fluffy and he'snot the smartest cat in the
world, but he thinks he's prettybeautiful and he knows he's
pretty beautiful and he comesand cuddles up with us and he's
very friendly too, but at sametime he's very different to the
dogs, very, very different.
So what do you tell people?
To help keep their cats healthy?
(28:48):
Now, if people are constrainedand here in Australia cats are
not a native animal, mind you,there's 5 billion feral cats all
over Australia.
So why they're demonising thedomestic cats, I don't know
either quite it doesn't makemuch rational sense.
But no, your country there'snative cats, so that shouldn't
(29:11):
be such a problem.
But what do you?
What's your advice?
How can people change what theydo with indoor cats, if they do
have these constraints, tohopefully not make them sick
early and die young?
Shanti Zinzi (29:25):
well, I, I think there's some.
There's a different, likefoundation practices, right,
right, our relationship withtouch, which is your fantastic
web program, um, how we'reactually, uh, how we're feeding
them.
So, you know, obviouslypromoting a, a non-processed
diet, raw diet or home cookeddiet, feline, biologically
(29:47):
appropriate.
I think we need to take theoutside elements into the home.
If they have to be, you know,if it's deemed legal, they have
to be inside, or the personprefers it that way.
Take the outdoor element intothe inside and to me that looks
like lots of plants, whetherthey're native plants to the
(30:09):
area or plants that are actuallysuch as, uh, some like moss,
boston, ivs, the, what they callthe snake plant.
There's a lot of plants that areactually cleaning formaldehyde
out of the air.
So, I think, green up the homeand it, you know, apparently, I
mean there's a lot, it's a lotof plants.
It takes a green thumb, butthere was a particular study
(30:31):
that was saying, well, to getthe air completely clean inside
the home, what would you need?
And you probably need one plantfor every square foot of home
but it's a lot of plants, butimagine how fresh the air would
be.
So I ask people to you know,green up as much as I can.
You can add the catnip whetheror not they like catnip or
(30:53):
certain herbs that areattractive to cats.
Bring the soil into the home.
I mean this could just be potsof soil, vats of soil that you
know that they're actually canroll around in it, that they're
getting some kind of benefitfrom actual soil.
There's so many, like we weresaying a little earlier, the
beneficial soil organisms thatexist in soil that we're
(31:15):
deprived of.
Keep the windows open as much asyou can, four to eight hours a
day, preferable I mean that'salways weather dependent so that
they can actually smell what'sgoing on outside.
There's so much in that vomeralnasal organ that they're
registering.
There's even a sense of timewhere they can tell you know,
(31:36):
last week there was coyotes orparticular wildlife that passed
by two weeks ago last night.
I mean there's so muchinformation that's cognitively
stimulating them if they'reaccessing that fresh air.
I ask people if they can.
You know there's a fewcertifications for clean that
(32:00):
are green certifications.
Whatever they're taking intothe home, what is the gots um
certification for textiles?
yeah, there's another one that'sfor sofa.
You know organic products thataren't, that are okay for the
home, that um, uh, that areregistering it's not really
dangerous amount of emissionsand there's, um, certain things
(32:23):
that you could find like thatare baby blankets for humans,
because a lot of moms are prettyconcerned that their babies are
breathing flame retardants andabsorbing it through their skin.
So instead of investing in allthese like plastic toys and
these, these cat beds and allthese things that we think are
spoiling our cats, we shouldjust go out into nature and get
(32:45):
some leaves and pick up sometwigs and get some soil and, you
know, let them play with thingsthat are, um, are found in
nature that they find quitestimulating and attract the
birds.
If you like.
You know you could if you wantto put a feeder.
I mean, there's always someproblems with that because of
bird flu but, like in my area,we have a native hummingbird, so
(33:06):
all we do is we put some pinkflowers or a bougainvillea out
in the window and thehummingbirds one that lives here
year-round will be feedingthere.
So the hummingbird is safe onthe other side of the window and
the cat is entertained yeah, soyou've got that's enrichment
right.
Dr Edward (33:26):
So you're bringing the outdoors indoor in a way
like plant life is not justenrichment, it's also cleaning
the air, but bringing thingsfrom nature into the cat's life
inside the home to make adifference yes, definitely, and
I think for their health too.
Shanti Zinzi (33:44):
You know, we have to be very aware of gas
appliances um there's benzene,nitrogen dioxide, carbon
monoxide, and we're getting alot more than we think we are if
we have gas appliances.
This is a terrible fact andthis is a reason why it's
outlawed in new york city.
If you're buying, if you'rebuilding a brand new um
apartment structure or complex,you're no longer allowed to use
(34:06):
gas appliances because of howit's harming human health.
So pets are getting it beforewe are.
So I always advise people and Ido it myself is invest in one
that pilots use, because it's alot more sensitive for carbon
monoxide detector and you canalso clean the air with those
not a HEPA filter, but thoseheavy-duty carbon filter air
(34:30):
filters such as IQ Air, which ismade in Switzerland, or Air
Pure, which is made in Canada Ithink it's about like a 22 or
23-pound filter, and it'll cleansmoke and formaldehyde and
different things out of theactual air for every 500 square
feet of space.
Dr Edward (34:51):
And you can use ionizers, I would imagine too,
to increase the vitality and thehealth of the air in the house.
Yes, and I suppose you know,buy organic, non-toxic.
Get rid of artificialfragrances out of your life,
because they're I find themdreadful for me and they're a
terrible, terrible thing foranimals.
Shanti Zinzi (35:12):
Yeah, and it's fascinating because you know
it's some of us, some peoplewith chronic illness are
incredibly sensitive and youknow I'm always saying, well,
you know, that's actually a giftbecause we're realizing that
these poisons are affecting us.
So it's actually as terrible asit makes us feel our body's
giving us a gift to sensitize usto that.
But, yes, as much as you can,get the cleaners out and if you
(35:37):
have to have these particularproducts which most people put
under their kitchen sink in theUnited States, I always ask them
to buy an airtight containerand store it outside of the home
so that it's not affecting theair in the home If you need a
bleach, but if we go back tobaking soda, white vinegar and
lemon there's a lot, you know,like a sort of these natural
(36:00):
cleaning products.
It's going to save ourrespiratory system.
It's going to save our lungs.
It's going to save our immunesystem.
To save our respiratory system,it's going to save our lungs.
It's going to save our immunesystem.
It's going to save our cats.
And these corporations that aremaking billions of dollars off
of us are, you know, going tohave to change their game plan
with what they're offering thepublic what about taking cats
(36:21):
for walks?
Dr Edward (36:22):
is that a good idea?
Shanti Zinzi (36:23):
I think it's great .
I think my very first cat, youknow I found her in was
Washington Square Park in NewYork City.
She moved around all over theworld.
She moved to Japan, she movedto San Francisco with me and I
took her on walks, I took her ona harness, but she was the type
you know there's a continuum inthe personality the very shy,
terrified, stranger danger cats,it's going to be very hard to
(36:46):
do.
But very shy, terrified,stranger danger cats, it's going
to be very hard to do.
But those very social animalsyou can train them.
And I think you know there'scertain times a day, like I
would maybe go out at 10pm and Ihad a great big gentle
Rottweiler, take the two of themout and I wouldn't go very far
because she didn quite, you know, walk very far, but we just go
(37:07):
outside and sit outside and sheloved it so, if you can do, it,
I think it's great.
Or when people have decks orlanai or even those small areas
in the yard, such as people willput up those catios, which are
fantastic.
They're protecting the wildlifeis not being accessed and the
(37:28):
cats can breathe that freshoutdoor air and see this entire,
the cornucopia of life that isactually out there, with the
insects and the trees and thebreezes and all those chemical
messages that are on the breezesthat are so important for them.
They have direct access to thatand we don't have to worry
about occupying them like we'rea dog.
(37:49):
So for me, a dog's a lot morework and I love dogs but, having
to entertain them cognitivelyis a little bit exhausting where
a cat is so much easier that'sthe beauty of the cat, being a
more independent kind ofcreature, right yes, there you
go, that's right okay, I think.
Dr Edward (38:09):
Is there anything else that you'd like to to share
with everyone that might helppeople with indoor pets, give
them the best life possible?
Shanti Zinzi (38:19):
um, I think you know, if you maybe clean water
right, whatever you're, however,you're giving them, putting the
water or food in, for example,I think the best product would
be a food grade stainless steelor glass because of whatever can
be.
You know, if there's a chip inthat ceramic plate, then there's
(38:40):
an actual lead glaze that'sinside ceramic that's going to
be leaching into their food ortheir water.
So if we can make consciouschoices as far as you know
everything they have access tokeep the dust to an absolute
minimum, because these chemicalsand molds will actually stick
to the dust and where the catsare we're not seeing that that
(39:00):
those dust particles.
I think if we can keep that toa basic minimum, remember their
cognitive stimulation, be veryaware of the relationship of,
will really, I think, raise ourawareness to what's happening
inside our animals.
So I think if we have thesebasic foundations covered, we're
(39:42):
going to have very happyanimals.
Dr Edward (39:45):
Beautiful.
Yeah, I love cats and you knowanyone out there who has got a
hate on cats.
Maybe you could just chill outa little bit and appreciate them
for the independent wildcreatures they are.
I think one of the things aboutcats, too, is that they've
still got more of the wild inthem than dogs and dogs and, you
(40:10):
know, maybe that's anotherreason they get demonized,
because they actually are morewild and and free and and
humanity struggles with thatsometimes.
Shanti Zinzi (40:18):
I think yeah, I agree with you, um, and you know
I always say you know, whenpeople think they're these top
predators, I'm like you know,it's not a mountain lion, it's
not a tiger, our coyotes.
Here and even just on my cornerI have a family of great horned
owls which are enormous, andthey are taking the neighbors'
pans and chickens and theyactually have taken kittens.
(40:39):
So you know, it's a whole canof worms, but cats are not top
of the food chain in the UnitedStates.
So I think we have to reallykind of look at that argument
about that eco-destroyers andreally put that into perspective
(41:01):
and realize that you know, whenwe're emotionally charged about
a certain issue which of coursewe all want to save the
environment and ecology andwildlife and these small animals
we have to really disengagethat emotional aspect and look
deeper into what's actuallyhappening and realize all
(41:22):
sentient life there's a tapestryof wonder here that exists
where our pets, our animals, ourcats, you know the flora, the
fauna ourselves, and if we couldjust offer respect and care
that, um, there would be a lothappier planet it would be.
Dr Edward (41:44):
So we're going to close up with a couple of
questions, and the first one iskind of the wake-up call what do
you think is humans biggestblind spot when it comes to our
shared journey of evolution andhealing and wellness?
Shanti Zinzi (41:56):
well, this kind of dovetails a little into what I
was saying earlier aboutmainstream narratives and
corporate narratives.
I you know there's a lot of.
What's happened in Westernreality is there was a monopoly
on our thinking process.
From indigenous reality of howwe see the earth, how we see
(42:18):
medicine and healing, thatbecame an allopathic model.
That has monopolized ourthinking and it is an empirical,
reductionist model that willmeasure the world through the
five senses.
That does not measure mind orconsciousness.
Healing does not happen withoutmind or consciousness or the
soul.
So for me, when we listen tothese narratives, I think it's
(42:43):
what's?
It's harming us, it's harmingthe planet.
I think that's my biggest,probably one of my biggest
issues of contention, becausethere's major corporations that
have studied us and masspsychology to sell us their
products and to really create um.
I think what I would consider afear model that is.
(43:14):
I mean, I just see it as anoutgrowth of the patriarchy.
It is not a model oftogetherness or a model, an
earth conscious model, but amore of a um, a corporate model.
I mean, what are they trying tosell us and who is benefiting
from that?
Dr Edward (43:33):
Well, not the average human being, not any of the
animals, not the environment,just a few people making large
amounts of money.
Shanti Zinzi (43:43):
The billionaires right, just the billionaires
getting richer as the earth isstruggling more and our animals
and our humans are struggling.
Dr Edward (43:52):
And what is the change that you want to be and
inspire others to be in thisworld?
Shanti Zinzi (43:59):
Well, I think I sort of always went to the gym.
You know a different beat.
But I'd like to inspire changein the way of getting people
back to their innate nature ofintelligence, inner intelligence
, of connectedness and trustingtheir inner voice.
(44:19):
That I think it's specificallyin the Western paradigm and in
schools it's programmed out ofus.
You know, we're taught to sitin these desks and look in these
computers and everything iskept in a box as opposed to
going from a heart sense whereyou know our heart is even more
(44:40):
powerful than the brain.
Our electromagnetic waves fromour heart, what we're getting
out of.
To listen to those voices thatare coming from inside of us,
our intuition, and to read fromthat To protect what is under
your responsibility, whetherit's your child and you're not
agreeing with something yourpediatrician's telling you, or
(45:02):
if you don't think it's properto put the insecticide on your
cat every 30 days because that'scancer causing.
I think we need to go back tolistening to ourselves, because
the answers are in our elders,they're in our indigenous
populations.
Those of us that went throughthe shamanic healing are
(45:23):
children, our children.
There's an innocence there thatis very connected to life and
the flowers and seeing thesacredness in the life around us
that unfortunately getsbrainwashed out of us.
So I'd like for us to go backto that.
There's a bit of an innocencethere, but there's an extreme
intelligence that is veryrespectful to the planet and I
(45:44):
think that is the only thingthat will save the planet moving
forward, or at least theecosystems.
I mean, the earth will be herelong after the humans are gone,
but the ecosystems will save.
That Is that indigenousknowledge that is innate and
intuitive to us.
That is what I would considermore of a heart knowledge.
And if we have a brain, heartcoherence which is just not
(46:05):
using one part of the brain,just not the neocortex, but all
engaging the entire aspect ofthe brain, the cells in the body
, the entire, you know that ourliver I mean in chinese medicine
we feel this.
We're getting information inour liver, in our spleen, and
you know you look at differentlanguages.
In the italian language theytalk about feeling things in
their liver and you know you canresonate that.
(46:26):
They talk about feeling thingsin their liver and you know you
can resonate that in how theChinese see things in their
liver.
Or I feel that in my spleen andI think that speaks of an inner
intelligence there that is sortof come out of the language
that we're not using any longer.
So the more we get back to that, I think, the more we get back
(46:50):
to that, I think, I feel likethe road forward will be better
for all life.
Dr Edward (46:53):
I agree and that is music to my ears what you're
saying, and I hope that ifthere's anyone out there
listening who hasn't heard somuch of this kind of viewpoint
that you let that soak in andyou wonder what it could be like
to get back to your innate,intuitive, empathic, indigenous
kind of art that sees everythingas alive and worthy of being in
(47:17):
healthy relationship with, andI think if we can all do that,
wow, who knows what could happen?
Shanti Zinzi (47:23):
Yeah, and you know , the thing I find is
interesting is a lot of peopleare being shamed out of this
because they're worried aboutcultural appropriation.
And when I told people there,we all have our ancestors and
all of our ancestors had naturalherbal medicine in earth
consciousness.
It doesn't matter if you arefrom russia or europe or latin
(47:43):
america or anywhere Africa onthe planet, they all were
natural medicine doctors in ourancestry and they were all very
connected.
So it's not culturalappropriation.
Shamans existed, for example,throughout the entire planet.
So I think sometimes, like Ifind this in the younger
(48:04):
generation they're feelingshamed by that cultural
appropriation.
I think, no, you know, so, areyou Russian?
Well, there are so manyshamanic, there's so much
shamanic wisdom in Russia.
You just have to get in touchwith their ancestry, just follow
that line back.
But there's, you know, as CarlJung would say, the collective
unconscious that exists indifferent parts of the planet
(48:28):
and there's the truth to everyculture and every land.
And you know one point we wereall from africa, we migrated
outward, um, but I, I, I don'twant people to, oh, I don't want
the young generation to getshamed out of following certain
paths.
Dr Edward (48:46):
I hear you and thank you so much for your time and
energy today.
I really appreciate it.
It's been a really interestingconversation.
Let's do everything we can tomake our indoor cats happy.
We're lucky here that my cat isan indoor-outdoor cat.
We live in an old home thatdoesn't have a whole lot of
those kind of toxic issues, sowe do have a gastro.
But thank you, I reallyappreciate it.
(49:10):
It's been a broad-ranging,really interesting conversation
and for all of you out therelistening, I hope you've enjoyed
it and I hope to see you backin the next episode.
Shanti Zinzi (49:20):
Thank you, dr Edward, it was wonderful.
Dr Edward (49:22):
Thanks, Anne.
Shanti Zinzi (49:23):
I appreciate it so much.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com