April 28, 2024 • 39 mins
Dr. Kurt Rosentrater, an expert in grain handling and processing from Iowa State University, sits down with Jim Lenz for "Fueling Progress: The Evolution of the Ethanol Industry. "
This episode of Whole Grain Podcast discusses the ever-changing landscape of the ethanol industry and its determined march toward sustainable practices.
Learn how the industry is being reshaped by initiatives such as carbon capture to the creation of eco-friendly aviation fuels. We’ll also consider the impact of federal policies and new SEC regulations. The conversation navigates the complexities of emissions reporting for companies and the ripple effect on the entire supply chain, highlighting the essential synergy between environmental stewardship, government policy and industry-wide collaboration.
Key Topics:
I. Introduction
A. Dr. Rosentrater's extensive background in the grain industry.
B. Highlight of his various roles and contributions to the grain industry
C. Expertise in ethanol production, sustainability, and academia.
II. Journey into the Ethanol Industry
A. Dr. Rosentrater's early involvement in the ethanol industry.
B. Explore the growth and evolution of ethanol production over the years.
C. Highlight of key challenges and innovations in the industry.
III. Technology and Market Dynamics
A. Examine the impact of technology and market dynamics on the ethanol industry.
B. Discuss the relationship between the fuel ethanol and whiskey industries.
C. Explore recent trends such as carbon capture and sustainable aviation fuel.
IV. Sustainability Practices
A. Sustainability practices within the grain industry.
B. Importance of accounting for all sectors of the supply chain.
C. Highlight Dr. Rosentrater's insights on scope one, two, and three emissions.
V. Future of the Ethanol Industry
A. Considerations of future direction of the ethanol industry.
B. Emerging trends such as bio-based chemicals and products.
C. Explore potential collaborations and advancements in the field.
VI. Connect with Dr. Kurt Rosentrater
A. Professor, Iowa State University, https://faculty.sites.iastate.edu/karosent/
B. Cereal Grain Cafe (Podcast/books): https://cerealgraincafe.com/
C. LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kurt-a-rosentrater-ph-d-sea-513637b/
D. Link to GEAPS Exchange 2024 educational session entitled, Facility Design Considerations for Maximizing Efficiencies and Throughputs
Grain Elevator and Processing Society champions, connects and serves the global grain industry and its members. Be sure to visit GEAPS’ website to learn how you can grow your network, support your personal professional development, and advance your career. Thank you for listening to another episode of GEAPS’ Whole Grain podcast.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jim Lenz (00:03):
Welcome back grain enthusiasts.
Get ready to explore the worldof grain handling and processing
with today's special guest, drKurt Rosentrader.
From ethanol production tosustainability practices, dr
Kurt Rosentrader has been at theforefront of innovation in the
grain industry.
Stay tuned as we discuss thefascinating evolution of ethanol
(00:23):
and explore the future of grainprocessing.
You won't want to miss thisinsightful episode of the Whole
Grain Podcast.
Hello and welcome to the show.
Welcome to the Whole GrainPodcast.
My name is Jim Lenz, our hostand producer of the show and the
(00:45):
Director of Global Education atJeeps, where the mission of the
Grain Elevator and ProcessingSociety is to champion, connect
and serve the global grainindustry and our members At
Jeeps.
We work to be the globalcommunity and thought leader for
the grain industry, which feedsand fuels the world.
Thanks for listening today andfor joining the network of
thousands of other grainhandling and processing
(01:06):
professionals across the globetaking strategic steps to grow
professionally.
The Whole Grain Show will giveyou the competitive advantage to
win at work so you can makemore of an impact.
Our guest for today's episodeis none other than Dr Kurt
Rosentrader, a distinguishedfigure within the grain industry
with a wealth of experience andexpertise From his early days
(01:26):
in ethanol production to hisgroundbreaking research in
sustainability practices, drRosen Trader has been at the
forefront of innovation in thefield.
Join us as we uncover theevolution of ethanol production.
Join us as we uncover theevolution of ethanol production,
explore the latest advancementsin grain processing technology
and peer into the future of theindustry.
(01:48):
Get ready for an insightfulconversation that's sure to
leave you with a deeperunderstanding of the grain
industry's past, present andfuture.
Stay tuned for an engagingepisode of this Whole Grain
Podcast episode.
Whole grain podcast episode.
(02:11):
All right, our guest for todayis a very well connected
individual within the grainindustry.
He grew up on his large farm inthe state of Iowa.
One of his early roles as ayoung adult was in design and
development, working for one ofthe premier providers of custom
design, engineering,construction solutions to feed,
specialty and dry bulkindustrial sectors.
Additionally, dr KurtRosenträder served as the lead
(02:33):
scientist and the bioprocessengineer for the US Department
of Agriculture's chiefscientific in-house research
agency, ars, also known as theAgricultural Research Service
Agency ARS, also known as theAgricultural Research Service.
And on top of that, kurt alsoserved as the Executive Director
and CEO of the Distillers GrainTechnology Council.
(02:54):
Dr Kurt Rosentrader currently isa professor in the Department
of Agricultural and BiosystemsEngineering and the Department
of Food Science and the HumanNutrition at Iowa State
University in Ames, iowaExciting place.
He's also a visiting professorat Israel, lyon and Polytech
Montpellier in France.
We haven't even started theconversation and we already want
(03:16):
him back on the show again.
So that's how excited we are tohave him as a guest on the show
today.
Thanks for spending some timewith Old Grain Podcast listeners
Welcome.
Dr. Kurt Rosentrater (03:26):
Thank you very much.
It is truly a pleasure to behere and share a bit of my
journey and my story.
But you know, if you work inthe grain industry, it is never
a dull moment.
So that, I think, is our MO.
Jim Lenz (03:41):
Wonderful To allow our listeners to get to know you
and to start off the show with abit of positive spirit.
Could you share with ourlisteners a mantra or success
quote that you live byprofessionally?
Dr. Kurt Rosentrater (03:53):
That is a really interesting question.
So I have had many in my lifeand this year I have decided
that my mantra for this year isJe n'ai qu'une vie, which is
French, for I have only one life.
(04:14):
So that's my mantra for thisyear.
Jim Lenz (04:19):
I like it.
Dr. Kurt Rosentrater (04:21):
I didn't make this up.
This was a friend of mineshared this with me.
We were talking about work andfamily and work-life balance,
and she said to me in French Ihave only one life.
So it really resonated with meand I think it's important.
As we think about what we doevery day, how can we make a
(04:42):
difference and how can we dosomething positive to impact the
world?
And so I have only one life.
Let's see what we can do withit.
Jim Lenz (04:53):
I couldn't agree more.
Great commentary to supportthat as well.
Yeah, that work-life balance iskey and all the interactions we
have, everybody we meet, is anew chance to learn from someone
and to be open and develop somepositive relationships.
Great, all right.
Now I am so impressed, first ofall, with the diversity of
(05:16):
experience and the skills thatyou offer to others.
You work on a daily basis andthe breadth and the scope of
your work is really justremarkable.
I enjoy following you and yourwork on LinkedIn.
As a former science teacher, Ilove seeing and reading about
the incredible experiences youcreate for your students.
But your work really spans theglobe, even devoting efforts to
(05:38):
support small-scale farmers inAfrica.
I mean, you're a problem solver, a researcher, a great
communicator.
You have a long history ofhaving conversations with
agribusinesses and a variety ofgrain facilities.
Of course, you work tounderstand their problems and
the challenges and then youpartner with individuals and
organizations to make the grainhandling and processing industry
(05:58):
more efficient, moresustainable.
I know you spent hundreds ofhours during COVID writing a
book.
I had a brother who was aphysician who did that as well
to best support his industry.
You've done that to supportyour industry.
You're an author many timesover.
Before we conclude the show,I'd love for you to speak on
your work with a forum you'vecreated called the Cereal Grain
(06:21):
Cafe.
It's a terrific podcast.
If you've not listened to that,listeners and I know our
listeners would be veryinterested in the books you've
published, so let's be sure wetouch on that before we conclude
and how listeners can bestconnect with you.
Sound good.
Dr. Kurt Rosentrater (06:35):
Super, that sounds fantastic.
Jim Lenz (06:37):
All right Now.
Kurt.
There are so many whole grainpodcast episode topics I wanted
to have with you.
It was really challenging tochoose just one topic, given
your background, your experience, to have this first one episode
.
Your background is so specialand unique.
But we have to have you as aguest discuss other relevant
(06:58):
topics of future episodes in theWhole Grain Podcast as well.
But we're using today's episodeto communicate with our
listeners the evolution of theethanol industry.
So let's take people back tothe early days.
You're a young fellow, but toyour earlier days in this sector
(07:19):
, kurt.
You have been highlyparticipatory in the evolution
of the ethanol industry, amongmany other things.
Can you share with thelisteners your journey into the
ethanol production industry?
Dr. Kurt Rosentrater (07:27):
Absolutely .
It was by chance, like manythings in my life.
It was by chance that years agoI applied for a job with USDA
Ag Research Service and thefocus of the position was to
work on co-products from ethanolprocessing.
(07:50):
And at the time, in the early2000s, the USDA had the
foresight to understand hey,there is this new industry
growing exponentially.
We need to see what, as anagency, we can do to help
support that industry andconduct basic as well as applied
(08:11):
research towards that to helpsolve problems.
And so at the time when I wasbrought in there were a lot of
research labs around the USworking on different
fermentation and distillationand those types of processing
questions.
But my position was unique inthat it was the only one in the
agency that was focused on thedistiller's grains, on the
(08:33):
non-fermentable materials.
And I remember at the FEW, whenI first started I was a week
into the job.
I'm at the FEW started I was aweek into the job.
I met the FEW.
I meet with my national programleader who I knew because he
was a former professor at IowaState.
But he sat down with me and hesaid, because I was a week into
(08:56):
the job I had no idea reallywhat I was supposed to do in
terms of DDG work, but he saidyou know what.
You need to meet the peoplethat are making these products.
You need to meet the industry,learn what their problems are
and figure out how to solvethose problems.
And I walked on a journey tomeet and get to know many
(09:19):
ethanol processing companiesequipment suppliers, ingredient
suppliers you know the wholenine yards and it became readily
apparent that, as the industrywas really starting to grow, it
(09:42):
wasn't just about how do webring more corn into an ethanol
plant and how do we build moreethanol plants, but what are we
going to do with the protein andthe lipids and the fiber and
all the stuff that's left over?
And how do we move it, how dowe transport it, how do we store
it, how do we use it?
And at the time there were lessthan 10 million tons being
(10:03):
produced.
I think when I started with theindustry, it was maybe four or
five million metric tons, so itwas a tiny drop in the bucket
compared to what we have today.
And I do remember, back in 2005and 2006, the 10 million ton
question what are we going to dowith 10 million tons of
distiller's grains.
Are we going to start sendingit to landfills?
(10:24):
Are we going to be burning it,composting it?
What are we going to do with 10million tons of distiller's
grains?
Are we going to start sendingit to landfills?
Are we going to be burning it,composting it?
What are we going to do withall this stuff?
Well, it's really interestingbecause distiller's grains, wet
or dry, they are used veryextensively as animal feed, both
in the US as well as outside ofthe US, and it's a great feed
product.
And, of course, the industryevolves.
(10:45):
Processing technologies evolve,distillers grains continue to
evolve.
But I would say it's really atestament to people that work in
the processing industries, butalso agriculture in general.
How do you best use proteinsand lipids and fibers
(11:05):
post-fermentation?
And I think we as an industryhave done a really good job in
that regard.
So that's how I got into thedistiller's grains work and I
know that you mentioned.
It's going to be difficult tonarrow down the conversation
today, but I do have to pointout humans have been brewing
(11:27):
beer for probably 10,000 or moreyears and you know the question
about the agriculturalrevolution.
Was it to produce more food?
Or, as about half of thehistorians and archaeologists
are contending of.
The historians andarchaeologists are contending
maybe it was to produce morebeer.
(11:48):
So you know, we've hadbyproducts from the brewing
industry for thousands of years.
It really was just in the lastfew hundred years where we have
distillation technology and sowe've got distillers grains to
work with.
It's also interesting if youlook at the chemical engineering
literature from the 1940s and50s.
Distillers have discovered avalue-added use for the
(12:13):
non-fermentable components, veryvaluable as beef and swine feed
.
And this is, you know, this iswhat we do now, but this is what
they were doing back at theturn of the 20th century too.
So we just know how to producemore consistent, higher quality
and use these materials to abetter degree than we did 100
(12:35):
years ago.
Jim Lenz (12:36):
You make a good point.
Let's talk a little bit aboutthe technology and market
dynamics and how that hasevolved.
Dr. Kurt Rosentrater (12:45):
Oh, that is such an interesting question,
because the markets really pushand pull a lot of what we do in
the grain industry, andespecially when we think about
the ethanol processing industry.
Well, we also have to thinkabout the whiskey processing
industry too, because whiskeyproduction, vodka production,
(13:07):
the beverage industry, is verytightly linked with the fuel
ethanol industry.
There are differences, butthat's where the ethanol
industry really originated wasfrom whiskey and vodka
production.
Now the value of the alcohol ismuch different, and so the fuel
industry has really beenpushing for the last two decades
(13:32):
to improve efficiency, to lowercosts, to maximize the use of
that starch.
And the whiskey industry is nowstarting to pay attention to
those things too, because, asthe whiskey industry continues
to grow exponentially, there's alot more of the byproducts from
whiskey industry than thereused to be.
(13:52):
And so, hey, what are thosefolks in the fuel ethanol
industry doing?
They're really maximizing theiryield.
They're maximizing their starchutilization.
They're also producing theirproducts more consistently than
we are.
What technologies are theyusing?
Oh, they're getting money forthe oil from the grain.
Well, maybe we need to startthinking about pulling oil out
(14:17):
of our stillage and selling thatalso.
So I think it's really aninteresting dynamic when you
look at the whiskey industry,the fuel industry and then now
technologies filtering back intothe whiskey industry.
(14:45):
And then now technology isfiltering back into the whiskey
industry and I think it reallyhas become apparent that you
know the true value of thekernel of corn or the kernel of
sorghum.
Really it's not just the starch, but it's the protein and it's
the lipids.
And lipids were relatively easyto start extracting and
(15:05):
separating and then sellingeither into the biodiesel or the
industrial products or thelivestock feed sector.
But now protein is exciting.
How can we maximize the valueof the protein that is in that
kernel of corn or sorghum that'scoming into the ethanol plant?
Is the best value just to letit go into DDG?
(15:26):
Or maybe we do some type of aconcentration, like several
technology companies arepromoting?
And I don't think there's onesize fits all.
Every company is going to bedifferent and the market
dynamics for each of thosecompanies really has to play a
role in company decisions.
And it's also interesting too,because if you talk to livestock
(15:52):
producers beef, dairy swine andpoultry they will tell you hey,
you know, we've been using yourDDG products for many years and
we like what we use and we buyit because we know how to use it
effectively.
And hey, you're going to bechanging our DDG, either by
producing products with higherprotein or lower protein, or
(16:13):
what are you doing to change theproducts that you make?
Hey, wait a minute, there's amarket for your traditional DDG.
Don't just discount that andthink that's not important.
So I think there's a questionthat every ethanol company has
to ask, which is do we installprotein separation technology or
(16:33):
not?
What is the potential marketversus our current market?
And I think those areconversations that many ethanol
plants are having and need tohave, because, it's true, you
can get more money for theprotein, but what about your
existing markets?
Don't forget about those.
Jim Lenz (16:52):
It's really interesting.
I know that you look at a stackof different industries
Agricultural industry is one ofthe most efficient industries on
the planet and this goes toshow all that you can use and
not much goes to waste right,and looking at the different
protein factors, how that goesinto feed and there's just a
(17:14):
supply chain of how one thingcan impact the other, and so
these conversations are reallyimportant.
So if you had pinpoint thegreatest area of focus right now
in the ethanol industry, wheredo you see is the biggest curve,
the biggest change that'soccurring now or it will about
(17:36):
to?
Where is the major focus rightnow?
Dr. Kurt Rosentrater (17:41):
So this is a great question what is the
ethanol industry focusing on atthe moment?
So let's leave the whiskeyindustry behind for a few
minutes, because that industrycontinues to grow, but it's
primarily driven by the sale ofwhiskey.
So the ethanol industry at themoment.
You know, every year the focuschanges to some degree.
(18:06):
A couple of years ago, thefocus was really strongly
focused on protein separations.
Last year and the year beforethere was a strong focus on
carbon capture and there havebeen issues with the permitting
of the pipelines that have beenproposed.
(18:28):
Government policies played arole in this idea of capturing
CO2 emissions and then pumpingthem and injecting them
underground for long-termstorage.
So this year, what I see on theradar is the sustainable
aviation fuel as a big question.
And how do we developtechnologies and factories to
(18:52):
produce these aviation fuels,which aren't ethanol and they're
not biodiesel, but both ofthose biofuels could play a role
in developing jet fuels frombiological sources.
So sustainable, there's aninteresting word.
How do you define sustainable?
And the federal government isimplementing policy for specific
(19:16):
levels of your carbon score orthe net CO2 emissions from farm
to plane, however you want todefine that.
So that is going to be how anaviation fuel is defined as
sustainable or not sustainable.
So I would say those are sort ofthe big three stories in the
(19:39):
last five years proteinseparations, carbon capture and
sustainable aviation fuel.
Now, next year, will there besomething new?
I'm not sure, and the reason Isay that is because, even though
this year there's a lot of talkabout sustainable aviation
fuels, the truth is there havebeen companies working in this
space for over a decade and it'sfederal policies that really
(20:01):
drive a lot of choices andinvestments.
So the carbon capture, the samething.
The protein separations, youknow that's not being driven by
government policy, that's reallybeing driven by technology
companies that have shown thatthey can separate, cost
effectively and concentrate notnecessarily separate, but
(20:23):
concentrate grain proteins fromthe post fermentation streams,
from the post-fermentationstreams.
Jim Lenz (20:33):
Very interesting Recently, chiefs Exchange 2024,
you're on stage speaking and youtalked about sustainability
practices.
One of the things I took awayis you need to account for all
sectors of the supply chain.
Can you discuss that a littlebit more?
Dr. Kurt Rosentrater (20:54):
Oh sure, absolutely.
So it's really quiteinteresting.
The Securities and ExchangeCommission has been working on
the rule so that publicly tradedcompanies in the United States
(21:16):
would know what is expected ofthem.
And specifically this ruling isrelated to scope one and scope
two emissions, and those aredifferent than scope three
emissions, and I'll kind ofexplain briefly Scope one
emissions are your directemissions.
So from the fuel that you usein your forklift, in your fleet
(21:40):
of vehicles, from yourfermenters, if you're talking
about ethanol or whiskeyproduction, so the CO2, the
nitrous oxide, the methane,that's being emitted directly
from what you do in youroperations.
So scope one emissions If youare a publicly traded company,
you have to account for thoseand not only do you have to
(22:00):
catalog them every year, youhave to publicly report them and
there are multiple onlineplatforms where you can report
this.
Scope two emissions areemissions that come from the
power plant where you purchaseyour electricity.
So scope one and scope tworeally account for what you're
doing directly because of youroperations, whether it's a
factory, whether it's an office,building your fleet of vehicles
(22:24):
, what your activities are.
Scope three emissions, which theSEC did not mandate at this
point in time.
Perhaps they will later, but atthis point in time they're not
mandated.
That is your entire supplychain, from cradle to grave.
So if we think about whathappens in grain operations,
that starts on the farm.
(22:44):
It starts from the fertilizer,the herbicide, the pesticide,
manufacturing, all the way tothe end of life of whatever food
product.
If you're making corn productsthat go into beef rations, then
you have to account for whathappens in the feedlot, what
happens with the meat processingcompany, what happens at the
(23:05):
landfill where you send yourpackaging waste and all of those
things.
So scope three emissions arereally comprehensive.
They're trying to understandcradle to grave and they are
really quite extensive.
But scope three emissions are atrue measure of a true
viewpoint of what is ourenvironmental impact for our
(23:27):
products.
(23:49):
Now, the talk that I was givingat Jeep's exchange was really
related to OK, what arecompanies doing to halogens or
sodium vapor using VFDs and softstarts for your motor control
systems, things like that.
Also insulation if you're doingheat treatment, like you're
(24:09):
doing some type of conditioningat a feed mill, for example,
things like that that areultimately going to reduce your
processing and your operatingcosts.
So those all feed into thisidea of scope one, scope two,
scope three, because ultimately,if you're a publicly traded
company, you have to account foryour scope one and scope two.
(24:30):
Now, if you're a privatecompany, you don't necessarily
need to, but if you're sellingproducts to a large, whether
it's a national or multinationalthat's publicly traded, they
might ask you for thisinformation.
And this is happeningthroughout the food and feed
supply chain.
I've talked to severalcompanies just this week who are
(24:52):
asking well, how do wecalculate scope one and scope
two?
We're being told by one of thecompanies that we sell our
products to that they want ouremission information.
So you know, these are thingsthat government policy does
impact what we do, whether welike it or not.
So how can we be responsive tothat?
So that's sort of the gist ofthe presentation that I gave at
(25:15):
the Jeebs Exchange.
I think this is really thebeginning of the story.
Now, as you mentioned and aswe've talked about a few minutes
ago, you know really,agriculture in general and ag
processing in specific.
We have done a fantastic jobover the decades in improving
(25:35):
our process efficiencies and ourconversion efficiencies Because
, for example, if you're sendingstarch out of your ethanol
plant into your DDG, that's lostrevenue for you that processing
inefficiency is lost revenue.
If you can reduce yourelectricity consumption, that's
just going to be more revenuefor you.
Jim Lenz (25:55):
So all of these things play together in terms of
making your operations moreefficient and more profitable to
me and a whole lot of educationthat needs to take place to
support what is being asked, youknow, for those public traded
companies or for those companiesthat do business with public
(26:18):
traded companies that are notpublic traded companies.
Wow, a lot to continue to learnand impact for organizations
for sure.
Now, what do you envision forthe future of the ethanol
industry in the next decade orso?
Dr. Kurt Rosentrater (26:33):
You know it's not surprising, but I think
it did take a lot of people offguard the idea of can we corn
ethanol industry.
Not only is it really efficient, but you can do a lot of things
(27:03):
with corn, and I'm not talkingabout high fructose corn syrup
or corn gluten meal.
We can do a lot of things withcorn.
But we can do a lot of thingswith bioprocessing and the
biochemicals industry is reallystarting to.
I think in the next couple ofdecades it's going to start to
(27:24):
ramp up production and there areso many bio-based chemicals
that we could make, and corn isrelatively inexpensive, which is
why it's used to make ethanolfor fuel.
But I think we're going to seebiochemicals really start to
take off and it's going to bedifferent than what we do in
(27:48):
terms of fermenting corn withyeast because of a variety of
different organisms that will berequired, different
distillations that will berequired, but we've got a really
strong base to build thebiochemical industry from.
So that's what my crystal ballsays.
I think we're going to seebiobased chemicals and biobased
products really continue to grow.
(28:10):
Now we're going to needgovernment support for these, of
course, because many industrialchemicals that are based on
petroleum are quite inexpensivebecause of the base price of the
petroleum itself.
But I think, just like theethanol industry grew and has
really become cost effective, Ithink we're going to see that in
(28:33):
the bio-based chemicals andbio-based products industries as
well in the bio-based chemicalsand bio-based products
industries as well.
Jim Lenz (28:43):
And so what has been happening?
You have academia, industry,policymakers driving that
continued progress andinnovation.
We expect to see the same thing.
What are those collaborationpieces that you're seeing right
now?
Dr. Kurt Rosentrater (28:57):
You know it's so interesting because I
would say for the last at least50 to 80 years there's been so
much work done by researchscientists at universities, at
federal agencies, at researchinstitutions around the world.
How can you make bio-basedproducts?
And we've got a lot of sciencealready done.
(29:20):
The challenge, I really think,is how do we take basic science
and scale it up and make itcommercially viable?
And economies of scale aregoing to be critically important
for that, and we've proven wecan do that with the processing
of corn into ethanol and we areseeing that happen also with
(29:42):
various bio-based chemicals.
But I think we need even moreof that and it's definitely
going to be a collaborationbetween investors, between
farmers, between researchscientists, university
professors.
I think it's going to take awhole ecosystem, just like it
did, for the ethanol industry,to really grow.
But we've proven that once wefocus, we can really accomplish
(30:06):
some pretty amazing things.
Jim Lenz (30:08):
Very nice, kurt.
You continue opening doors forothers to grow within the grain
industry.
I appreciate all the channelsyou use to try and maximize the
reach for others to become awareof where their food comes from
quite simply, where their fuelcomes from and thousands of
other products that arecomprised of grain products to
support our daily lives.
(30:29):
In a world where people seem tobe more and more disconnected
with the importance ofagriculture and the grain in our
lives, you are consciouslymaking efforts to bridge that
gap.
That's why I'd like you to tellour Whole Grain listeners about
the great resource and channelout there called the Cereal
Grain Cafe.
Dr. Kurt Rosentrater (30:51):
You know, I have to say it sounded like a
good idea at the time, and Ithink it still does.
I think it does.
As you know, it takes effort tomake a podcast, it takes time
to make a podcast, but my ideawas how can you share what's
happening in academics, inindustry, with students, with
(31:15):
professionals?
There's a lot of reallyinteresting things that are
going on that have gone on, andthere's a lot of aspects, a lot
of facets of grain that mostpeople nowadays, unless you're
really heavily involved in theindustry, really don't
understand.
You know, most consumers willeither.
Actually, most consumers willbuy their bread at least in the
(31:39):
US at a supermarket, as opposedto making their own bread.
But 10,000 years ago, that waswhat everybody did.
Their job was to help grow foodand make food, and you knew
exactly where your food wascoming from, and you expended
about as many calories every daymaking food as you were able to
(32:01):
eat, and so it was a muchdifferent dietary regime than we
have now.
Oh, speaking of which, I doneed to go to the supermarket
before I go home tonight too.
But my idea was hey, you know,there are some really
interesting stories, and I'vehad the opportunity to interview
some really fascinatingresearchers that have written
(32:21):
about archaeological excavationsin Jordan.
The oldest known grain storagesite that historians have found
so far 11,000 years ago inJordan, where grain was stored
in clay pots and the walls ofthe storage building.
Not only were they mud clayconstruction, but they also
(32:44):
contained various hulls from theearly form of wheat that they
were using.
So even then they were usingthe hulls as a reinforcement for
the mortar.
Jim Lenz (32:56):
Wow, it was everything , yeah, as much as the mortar.
Dr. Kurt Rosentrater (32:58):
Wow, it's everything.
Jim Lenz (32:59):
Yeah, as much as it could Exactly.
I encourage authors to checkthat out.
Additionally, kirk, you're theauthor of three published books
available for grainprofessionals and grain
enthusiasts.
One of the books is calledStorage of Cereal Grains and
their Products.
Another book is called Kent'sDistillers Grains Production,
properties and Utilization.
Please share some briefinsights.
(33:19):
What are all those books here?
I understand you're alsowriting one now.
Dr. Kurt Rosentrater (33:24):
Oh my yes, there's so much work that needs
to be done, so much informationthat needs to be put out into
the world.
The reason I started writingthese books was because the
people that I've worked withover the years know a lot of
information, but an actualcompilation of information for
people who might be doing designor operations.
(33:46):
The information is reallypretty diverse and pretty
scattered, and so that was theimpetus why I have a book about
distiller's grains, a book aboutgrain processing and then a
book about grain storage.
So I don't want to do shamelessself-promotion, but I think
we've covered the grain industrypretty well with those three
(34:08):
publications.
Now there's definitely more workthat needs to be done, and I
think you brought up aninteresting point earlier in our
conversation about workoverseas.
What we think about in terms ofgrain storage, preservation and
processing in the USA or Canadais not exactly the way it is
all around the world.
There are still communitiesaround the world that struggle
(34:31):
to eat every day, and simplebasic techniques are generally
more appropriate than what wethink about in terms of
large-scale, massive processing.
So there's still so much workto be done.
Jim Lenz (34:45):
Yeah, good point.
Thank you for your support.
I'm a member of Jeeps.
I recently spoke at the JeepsExchange 2024.
I was in that audience.
You were a big hit.
It really was an enlighteningpresentation.
That audience, you were a bighit.
It really was an enlighteningpresentation.
I will leave the link in theshow notes on how listeners can
watch and listen to yourinteractive presentation called
Facility Design Considerationsfor Maximizing Efficiencies and
(35:08):
Throughputs.
But real briefly, can you givea description of what that's
about?
Dr. Kurt Rosentrater (35:14):
Sure, so I will harken back to a few
minutes ago in our conversation.
You know what are grainfacilities doing, whether
they're storage or processingfacilities.
What are some things that theyare doing to make their
processing operations moreefficient, to reduce their
operating costs and ultimatelyto reduce their energy
(35:35):
consumption, which ultimatelywill reduce their scope one and
scope two emissions.
So all of the things thatcompanies are doing related to
lights and motors and insulationand energy audits, all of those
things lots of companies aredoing, instrumentation and
sensors and control systems.
(35:55):
It's not just about preservingthe quality of the grain,
although that's important.
It's also about making surethat you can reduce your
operating costs so that yourmargin is more favorable.
Jim Lenz (36:10):
I encourage listeners to check that out.
Make sure you share that withyour colleagues.
It really will bring up somegreat discussions.
And finally, Kurt, if listenerswant to connect with you, what
are the best ways for them to doso?
Dr. Kurt Rosentrater (36:22):
So I am always available through my
university website.
My contact information is on myuniversity website, but there's
also CerealGrainCafecom.
They have my contactinformation there as well.
I'm quite active on LinkedIn,so feel free to reach out to me
on LinkedIn as well.
Jim Lenz (36:42):
Dr Kurt Rosentraitor, thank you for serving as guests
on Whole Grain.
On behalf of the entire JEEPSteam, we thank you for your
commitment to the greater grainhandling and processing industry
.
It's been an honor and apleasure to spend some time with
you and thank you for spendingyour time and talents with Whole
Grain podcast listeners.
Thank you so much.
It was a pleasure to spend sometime with you and thank you for
spending your time and talentswith Whole Grain Podcast
listeners.
Dr. Kurt Rosentrater (37:00):
Thank you so much.
It was a pleasure.
Look forward to talking again.
Jim Lenz (37:05):
Thank you.
Our episodes of Whole Grain aresuper easy to share with others
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(37:25):
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(37:47):
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(38:10):
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(38:54):
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Continue listening, share thenews of the show with your
(39:15):
friends and colleagues.
Have yourself a great day andthanks for listening to Whole
Grain.
Welcome back grain enthusiasts.
Get ready to explore the worldof grain handling and processing
with today's special guest, drKurt Rosentrader.
From ethanol production tosustainability practices, dr
Kurt Rosentrader has been at theforefront of innovation in the
grain industry.
Stay tuned as we discuss thefascinating evolution of ethanol
(00:23):
and explore the future of grainprocessing.
You won't want to miss thisinsightful episode of the Whole
Grain Podcast.
Hello and welcome to the show.
Welcome to the Whole GrainPodcast.
My name is Jim Lenz, our hostand producer of the show and the
(00:45):
Director of Global Education atJeeps, where the mission of the
Grain Elevator and ProcessingSociety is to champion, connect
and serve the global grainindustry and our members At
Jeeps.
We work to be the globalcommunity and thought leader for
the grain industry, which feedsand fuels the world.
Thanks for listening today andfor joining the network of
thousands of other grainhandling and processing
(01:06):
professionals across the globetaking strategic steps to grow
professionally.
The Whole Grain Show will giveyou the competitive advantage to
win at work so you can makemore of an impact.
Our guest for today's episodeis none other than Dr Kurt
Rosentrader, a distinguishedfigure within the grain industry
with a wealth of experience andexpertise From his early days
(01:26):
in ethanol production to hisgroundbreaking research in
sustainability practices, drRosen Trader has been at the
forefront of innovation in thefield.
Join us as we uncover theevolution of ethanol production.
Join us as we uncover theevolution of ethanol production,
explore the latest advancementsin grain processing technology
and peer into the future of theindustry.
(01:48):
Get ready for an insightfulconversation that's sure to
leave you with a deeperunderstanding of the grain
industry's past, present andfuture.
Stay tuned for an engagingepisode of this Whole Grain
Podcast episode.
Whole grain podcast episode.
(02:11):
All right, our guest for todayis a very well connected
individual within the grainindustry.
He grew up on his large farm inthe state of Iowa.
One of his early roles as ayoung adult was in design and
development, working for one ofthe premier providers of custom
design, engineering,construction solutions to feed,
specialty and dry bulkindustrial sectors.
Additionally, dr KurtRosenträder served as the lead
(02:33):
scientist and the bioprocessengineer for the US Department
of Agriculture's chiefscientific in-house research
agency, ars, also known as theAgricultural Research Service
Agency ARS, also known as theAgricultural Research Service.
And on top of that, kurt alsoserved as the Executive Director
and CEO of the Distillers GrainTechnology Council.
(02:54):
Dr Kurt Rosentrader currently isa professor in the Department
of Agricultural and BiosystemsEngineering and the Department
of Food Science and the HumanNutrition at Iowa State
University in Ames, iowaExciting place.
He's also a visiting professorat Israel, lyon and Polytech
Montpellier in France.
We haven't even started theconversation and we already want
(03:16):
him back on the show again.
So that's how excited we are tohave him as a guest on the show
today.
Thanks for spending some timewith Old Grain Podcast listeners
Welcome.
Dr. Kurt Rosentrater (03:26):
Thank you very much.
It is truly a pleasure to behere and share a bit of my
journey and my story.
But you know, if you work inthe grain industry, it is never
a dull moment.
So that, I think, is our MO.
Jim Lenz (03:41):
Wonderful To allow our listeners to get to know you
and to start off the show with abit of positive spirit.
Could you share with ourlisteners a mantra or success
quote that you live byprofessionally?
Dr. Kurt Rosentrater (03:53):
That is a really interesting question.
So I have had many in my lifeand this year I have decided
that my mantra for this year isJe n'ai qu'une vie, which is
French, for I have only one life.
(04:14):
So that's my mantra for thisyear.
Jim Lenz (04:19):
I like it.
Dr. Kurt Rosentrater (04:21):
I didn't make this up.
This was a friend of mineshared this with me.
We were talking about work andfamily and work-life balance,
and she said to me in French Ihave only one life.
So it really resonated with meand I think it's important.
As we think about what we doevery day, how can we make a
(04:42):
difference and how can we dosomething positive to impact the
world?
And so I have only one life.
Let's see what we can do withit.
Jim Lenz (04:53):
I couldn't agree more.
Great commentary to supportthat as well.
Yeah, that work-life balance iskey and all the interactions we
have, everybody we meet, is anew chance to learn from someone
and to be open and develop somepositive relationships.
Great, all right.
Now I am so impressed, first ofall, with the diversity of
(05:16):
experience and the skills thatyou offer to others.
You work on a daily basis andthe breadth and the scope of
your work is really justremarkable.
I enjoy following you and yourwork on LinkedIn.
As a former science teacher, Ilove seeing and reading about
the incredible experiences youcreate for your students.
But your work really spans theglobe, even devoting efforts to
(05:38):
support small-scale farmers inAfrica.
I mean, you're a problem solver, a researcher, a great
communicator.
You have a long history ofhaving conversations with
agribusinesses and a variety ofgrain facilities.
Of course, you work tounderstand their problems and
the challenges and then youpartner with individuals and
organizations to make the grainhandling and processing industry
(05:58):
more efficient, moresustainable.
I know you spent hundreds ofhours during COVID writing a
book.
I had a brother who was aphysician who did that as well
to best support his industry.
You've done that to supportyour industry.
You're an author many timesover.
Before we conclude the show,I'd love for you to speak on
your work with a forum you'vecreated called the Cereal Grain
(06:21):
Cafe.
It's a terrific podcast.
If you've not listened to that,listeners and I know our
listeners would be veryinterested in the books you've
published, so let's be sure wetouch on that before we conclude
and how listeners can bestconnect with you.
Sound good.
Dr. Kurt Rosentrater (06:35):
Super, that sounds fantastic.
Jim Lenz (06:37):
All right Now.
Kurt.
There are so many whole grainpodcast episode topics I wanted
to have with you.
It was really challenging tochoose just one topic, given
your background, your experience, to have this first one episode
.
Your background is so specialand unique.
But we have to have you as aguest discuss other relevant
(06:58):
topics of future episodes in theWhole Grain Podcast as well.
But we're using today's episodeto communicate with our
listeners the evolution of theethanol industry.
So let's take people back tothe early days.
You're a young fellow, but toyour earlier days in this sector
(07:19):
, kurt.
You have been highlyparticipatory in the evolution
of the ethanol industry, amongmany other things.
Can you share with thelisteners your journey into the
ethanol production industry?
Dr. Kurt Rosentrater (07:27):
Absolutely .
It was by chance, like manythings in my life.
It was by chance that years agoI applied for a job with USDA
Ag Research Service and thefocus of the position was to
work on co-products from ethanolprocessing.
(07:50):
And at the time, in the early2000s, the USDA had the
foresight to understand hey,there is this new industry
growing exponentially.
We need to see what, as anagency, we can do to help
support that industry andconduct basic as well as applied
(08:11):
research towards that to helpsolve problems.
And so at the time when I wasbrought in there were a lot of
research labs around the USworking on different
fermentation and distillationand those types of processing
questions.
But my position was unique inthat it was the only one in the
agency that was focused on thedistiller's grains, on the
(08:33):
non-fermentable materials.
And I remember at the FEW, whenI first started I was a week
into the job.
I'm at the FEW started I was aweek into the job.
I met the FEW.
I meet with my national programleader who I knew because he
was a former professor at IowaState.
But he sat down with me and hesaid, because I was a week into
(08:56):
the job I had no idea reallywhat I was supposed to do in
terms of DDG work, but he saidyou know what.
You need to meet the peoplethat are making these products.
You need to meet the industry,learn what their problems are
and figure out how to solvethose problems.
And I walked on a journey tomeet and get to know many
(09:19):
ethanol processing companiesequipment suppliers, ingredient
suppliers you know the wholenine yards and it became readily
apparent that, as the industrywas really starting to grow, it
(09:42):
wasn't just about how do webring more corn into an ethanol
plant and how do we build moreethanol plants, but what are we
going to do with the protein andthe lipids and the fiber and
all the stuff that's left over?
And how do we move it, how dowe transport it, how do we store
it, how do we use it?
And at the time there were lessthan 10 million tons being
(10:03):
produced.
I think when I started with theindustry, it was maybe four or
five million metric tons, so itwas a tiny drop in the bucket
compared to what we have today.
And I do remember, back in 2005and 2006, the 10 million ton
question what are we going to dowith 10 million tons of
distiller's grains.
Are we going to start sendingit to landfills?
(10:24):
Are we going to be burning it,composting it?
What are we going to do with 10million tons of distiller's
grains?
Are we going to start sendingit to landfills?
Are we going to be burning it,composting it?
What are we going to do withall this stuff?
Well, it's really interestingbecause distiller's grains, wet
or dry, they are used veryextensively as animal feed, both
in the US as well as outside ofthe US, and it's a great feed
product.
And, of course, the industryevolves.
(10:45):
Processing technologies evolve,distillers grains continue to
evolve.
But I would say it's really atestament to people that work in
the processing industries, butalso agriculture in general.
How do you best use proteinsand lipids and fibers
(11:05):
post-fermentation?
And I think we as an industryhave done a really good job in
that regard.
So that's how I got into thedistiller's grains work and I
know that you mentioned.
It's going to be difficult tonarrow down the conversation
today, but I do have to pointout humans have been brewing
(11:27):
beer for probably 10,000 or moreyears and you know the question
about the agriculturalrevolution.
Was it to produce more food?
Or, as about half of thehistorians and archaeologists
are contending of.
The historians andarchaeologists are contending
maybe it was to produce morebeer.
(11:48):
So you know, we've hadbyproducts from the brewing
industry for thousands of years.
It really was just in the lastfew hundred years where we have
distillation technology and sowe've got distillers grains to
work with.
It's also interesting if youlook at the chemical engineering
literature from the 1940s and50s.
Distillers have discovered avalue-added use for the
(12:13):
non-fermentable components, veryvaluable as beef and swine feed
.
And this is, you know, this iswhat we do now, but this is what
they were doing back at theturn of the 20th century too.
So we just know how to producemore consistent, higher quality
and use these materials to abetter degree than we did 100
(12:35):
years ago.
Jim Lenz (12:36):
You make a good point.
Let's talk a little bit aboutthe technology and market
dynamics and how that hasevolved.
Dr. Kurt Rosentrater (12:45):
Oh, that is such an interesting question,
because the markets really pushand pull a lot of what we do in
the grain industry, andespecially when we think about
the ethanol processing industry.
Well, we also have to thinkabout the whiskey processing
industry too, because whiskeyproduction, vodka production,
(13:07):
the beverage industry, is verytightly linked with the fuel
ethanol industry.
There are differences, butthat's where the ethanol
industry really originated wasfrom whiskey and vodka
production.
Now the value of the alcohol ismuch different, and so the fuel
industry has really beenpushing for the last two decades
(13:32):
to improve efficiency, to lowercosts, to maximize the use of
that starch.
And the whiskey industry is nowstarting to pay attention to
those things too, because, asthe whiskey industry continues
to grow exponentially, there's alot more of the byproducts from
whiskey industry than thereused to be.
(13:52):
And so, hey, what are thosefolks in the fuel ethanol
industry doing?
They're really maximizing theiryield.
They're maximizing their starchutilization.
They're also producing theirproducts more consistently than
we are.
What technologies are theyusing?
Oh, they're getting money forthe oil from the grain.
Well, maybe we need to startthinking about pulling oil out
(14:17):
of our stillage and selling thatalso.
So I think it's really aninteresting dynamic when you
look at the whiskey industry,the fuel industry and then now
technologies filtering back intothe whiskey industry.
(14:45):
And then now technology isfiltering back into the whiskey
industry and I think it reallyhas become apparent that you
know the true value of thekernel of corn or the kernel of
sorghum.
Really it's not just the starch, but it's the protein and it's
the lipids.
And lipids were relatively easyto start extracting and
(15:05):
separating and then sellingeither into the biodiesel or the
industrial products or thelivestock feed sector.
But now protein is exciting.
How can we maximize the valueof the protein that is in that
kernel of corn or sorghum that'scoming into the ethanol plant?
Is the best value just to letit go into DDG?
(15:26):
Or maybe we do some type of aconcentration, like several
technology companies arepromoting?
And I don't think there's onesize fits all.
Every company is going to bedifferent and the market
dynamics for each of thosecompanies really has to play a
role in company decisions.
And it's also interesting too,because if you talk to livestock
(15:52):
producers beef, dairy swine andpoultry they will tell you hey,
you know, we've been using yourDDG products for many years and
we like what we use and we buyit because we know how to use it
effectively.
And hey, you're going to bechanging our DDG, either by
producing products with higherprotein or lower protein, or
(16:13):
what are you doing to change theproducts that you make?
Hey, wait a minute, there's amarket for your traditional DDG.
Don't just discount that andthink that's not important.
So I think there's a questionthat every ethanol company has
to ask, which is do we installprotein separation technology or
(16:33):
not?
What is the potential marketversus our current market?
And I think those areconversations that many ethanol
plants are having and need tohave, because, it's true, you
can get more money for theprotein, but what about your
existing markets?
Don't forget about those.
Jim Lenz (16:52):
It's really interesting.
I know that you look at a stackof different industries
Agricultural industry is one ofthe most efficient industries on
the planet and this goes toshow all that you can use and
not much goes to waste right,and looking at the different
protein factors, how that goesinto feed and there's just a
(17:14):
supply chain of how one thingcan impact the other, and so
these conversations are reallyimportant.
So if you had pinpoint thegreatest area of focus right now
in the ethanol industry, wheredo you see is the biggest curve,
the biggest change that'soccurring now or it will about
(17:36):
to?
Where is the major focus rightnow?
Dr. Kurt Rosentrater (17:41):
So this is a great question what is the
ethanol industry focusing on atthe moment?
So let's leave the whiskeyindustry behind for a few
minutes, because that industrycontinues to grow, but it's
primarily driven by the sale ofwhiskey.
So the ethanol industry at themoment.
You know, every year the focuschanges to some degree.
(18:06):
A couple of years ago, thefocus was really strongly
focused on protein separations.
Last year and the year beforethere was a strong focus on
carbon capture and there havebeen issues with the permitting
of the pipelines that have beenproposed.
(18:28):
Government policies played arole in this idea of capturing
CO2 emissions and then pumpingthem and injecting them
underground for long-termstorage.
So this year, what I see on theradar is the sustainable
aviation fuel as a big question.
And how do we developtechnologies and factories to
(18:52):
produce these aviation fuels,which aren't ethanol and they're
not biodiesel, but both ofthose biofuels could play a role
in developing jet fuels frombiological sources.
So sustainable, there's aninteresting word.
How do you define sustainable?
And the federal government isimplementing policy for specific
(19:16):
levels of your carbon score orthe net CO2 emissions from farm
to plane, however you want todefine that.
So that is going to be how anaviation fuel is defined as
sustainable or not sustainable.
So I would say those are sort ofthe big three stories in the
(19:39):
last five years proteinseparations, carbon capture and
sustainable aviation fuel.
Now, next year, will there besomething new?
I'm not sure, and the reason Isay that is because, even though
this year there's a lot of talkabout sustainable aviation
fuels, the truth is there havebeen companies working in this
space for over a decade and it'sfederal policies that really
(20:01):
drive a lot of choices andinvestments.
So the carbon capture, the samething.
The protein separations, youknow that's not being driven by
government policy, that's reallybeing driven by technology
companies that have shown thatthey can separate, cost
effectively and concentrate notnecessarily separate, but
(20:23):
concentrate grain proteins fromthe post fermentation streams,
from the post-fermentationstreams.
Jim Lenz (20:33):
Very interesting Recently, chiefs Exchange 2024,
you're on stage speaking and youtalked about sustainability
practices.
One of the things I took awayis you need to account for all
sectors of the supply chain.
Can you discuss that a littlebit more?
Dr. Kurt Rosentrater (20:54):
Oh sure, absolutely.
So it's really quiteinteresting.
The Securities and ExchangeCommission has been working on
the rule so that publicly tradedcompanies in the United States
(21:16):
would know what is expected ofthem.
And specifically this ruling isrelated to scope one and scope
two emissions, and those aredifferent than scope three
emissions, and I'll kind ofexplain briefly Scope one
emissions are your directemissions.
So from the fuel that you usein your forklift, in your fleet
(21:40):
of vehicles, from yourfermenters, if you're talking
about ethanol or whiskeyproduction, so the CO2, the
nitrous oxide, the methane,that's being emitted directly
from what you do in youroperations.
So scope one emissions If youare a publicly traded company,
you have to account for thoseand not only do you have to
(22:00):
catalog them every year, youhave to publicly report them and
there are multiple onlineplatforms where you can report
this.
Scope two emissions areemissions that come from the
power plant where you purchaseyour electricity.
So scope one and scope tworeally account for what you're
doing directly because of youroperations, whether it's a
factory, whether it's an office,building your fleet of vehicles
(22:24):
, what your activities are.
Scope three emissions, which theSEC did not mandate at this
point in time.
Perhaps they will later, but atthis point in time they're not
mandated.
That is your entire supplychain, from cradle to grave.
So if we think about whathappens in grain operations,
that starts on the farm.
(22:44):
It starts from the fertilizer,the herbicide, the pesticide,
manufacturing, all the way tothe end of life of whatever food
product.
If you're making corn productsthat go into beef rations, then
you have to account for whathappens in the feedlot, what
happens with the meat processingcompany, what happens at the
(23:05):
landfill where you send yourpackaging waste and all of those
things.
So scope three emissions arereally comprehensive.
They're trying to understandcradle to grave and they are
really quite extensive.
But scope three emissions are atrue measure of a true
viewpoint of what is ourenvironmental impact for our
(23:27):
products.
(23:49):
Now, the talk that I was givingat Jeep's exchange was really
related to OK, what arecompanies doing to halogens or
sodium vapor using VFDs and softstarts for your motor control
systems, things like that.
Also insulation if you're doingheat treatment, like you're
(24:09):
doing some type of conditioningat a feed mill, for example,
things like that that areultimately going to reduce your
processing and your operatingcosts.
So those all feed into thisidea of scope one, scope two,
scope three, because ultimately,if you're a publicly traded
company, you have to account foryour scope one and scope two.
(24:30):
Now, if you're a privatecompany, you don't necessarily
need to, but if you're sellingproducts to a large, whether
it's a national or multinationalthat's publicly traded, they
might ask you for thisinformation.
And this is happeningthroughout the food and feed
supply chain.
I've talked to severalcompanies just this week who are
(24:52):
asking well, how do wecalculate scope one and scope
two?
We're being told by one of thecompanies that we sell our
products to that they want ouremission information.
So you know, these are thingsthat government policy does
impact what we do, whether welike it or not.
So how can we be responsive tothat?
So that's sort of the gist ofthe presentation that I gave at
(25:15):
the Jeebs Exchange.
I think this is really thebeginning of the story.
Now, as you mentioned and aswe've talked about a few minutes
ago, you know really,agriculture in general and ag
processing in specific.
We have done a fantastic jobover the decades in improving
(25:35):
our process efficiencies and ourconversion efficiencies Because
, for example, if you're sendingstarch out of your ethanol
plant into your DDG, that's lostrevenue for you that processing
inefficiency is lost revenue.
If you can reduce yourelectricity consumption, that's
just going to be more revenuefor you.
Jim Lenz (25:55):
So all of these things play together in terms of
making your operations moreefficient and more profitable to
me and a whole lot of educationthat needs to take place to
support what is being asked, youknow, for those public traded
companies or for those companiesthat do business with public
(26:18):
traded companies that are notpublic traded companies.
Wow, a lot to continue to learnand impact for organizations
for sure.
Now, what do you envision forthe future of the ethanol
industry in the next decade orso?
Dr. Kurt Rosentrater (26:33):
You know it's not surprising, but I think
it did take a lot of people offguard the idea of can we corn
ethanol industry.
Not only is it really efficient, but you can do a lot of things
(27:03):
with corn, and I'm not talkingabout high fructose corn syrup
or corn gluten meal.
We can do a lot of things withcorn.
But we can do a lot of thingswith bioprocessing and the
biochemicals industry is reallystarting to.
I think in the next couple ofdecades it's going to start to
(27:24):
ramp up production and there areso many bio-based chemicals
that we could make, and corn isrelatively inexpensive, which is
why it's used to make ethanolfor fuel.
But I think we're going to seebiochemicals really start to
take off and it's going to bedifferent than what we do in
(27:48):
terms of fermenting corn withyeast because of a variety of
different organisms that will berequired, different
distillations that will berequired, but we've got a really
strong base to build thebiochemical industry from.
So that's what my crystal ballsays.
I think we're going to seebiobased chemicals and biobased
products really continue to grow.
(28:10):
Now we're going to needgovernment support for these, of
course, because many industrialchemicals that are based on
petroleum are quite inexpensivebecause of the base price of the
petroleum itself.
But I think, just like theethanol industry grew and has
really become cost effective, Ithink we're going to see that in
(28:33):
the bio-based chemicals andbio-based products industries as
well in the bio-based chemicalsand bio-based products
industries as well.
Jim Lenz (28:43):
And so what has been happening?
You have academia, industry,policymakers driving that
continued progress andinnovation.
We expect to see the same thing.
What are those collaborationpieces that you're seeing right
now?
Dr. Kurt Rosentrater (28:57):
You know it's so interesting because I
would say for the last at least50 to 80 years there's been so
much work done by researchscientists at universities, at
federal agencies, at researchinstitutions around the world.
How can you make bio-basedproducts?
And we've got a lot of sciencealready done.
(29:20):
The challenge, I really think,is how do we take basic science
and scale it up and make itcommercially viable?
And economies of scale aregoing to be critically important
for that, and we've proven wecan do that with the processing
of corn into ethanol and we areseeing that happen also with
(29:42):
various bio-based chemicals.
But I think we need even moreof that and it's definitely
going to be a collaborationbetween investors, between
farmers, between researchscientists, university
professors.
I think it's going to take awhole ecosystem, just like it
did, for the ethanol industry,to really grow.
But we've proven that once wefocus, we can really accomplish
(30:06):
some pretty amazing things.
Jim Lenz (30:08):
Very nice, kurt.
You continue opening doors forothers to grow within the grain
industry.
I appreciate all the channelsyou use to try and maximize the
reach for others to become awareof where their food comes from
quite simply, where their fuelcomes from and thousands of
other products that arecomprised of grain products to
support our daily lives.
(30:29):
In a world where people seem tobe more and more disconnected
with the importance ofagriculture and the grain in our
lives, you are consciouslymaking efforts to bridge that
gap.
That's why I'd like you to tellour Whole Grain listeners about
the great resource and channelout there called the Cereal
Grain Cafe.
Dr. Kurt Rosentrater (30:51):
You know, I have to say it sounded like a
good idea at the time, and Ithink it still does.
I think it does.
As you know, it takes effort tomake a podcast, it takes time
to make a podcast, but my ideawas how can you share what's
happening in academics, inindustry, with students, with
(31:15):
professionals?
There's a lot of reallyinteresting things that are
going on that have gone on, andthere's a lot of aspects, a lot
of facets of grain that mostpeople nowadays, unless you're
really heavily involved in theindustry, really don't
understand.
You know, most consumers willeither.
Actually, most consumers willbuy their bread at least in the
(31:39):
US at a supermarket, as opposedto making their own bread.
But 10,000 years ago, that waswhat everybody did.
Their job was to help grow foodand make food, and you knew
exactly where your food wascoming from, and you expended
about as many calories every daymaking food as you were able to
(32:01):
eat, and so it was a muchdifferent dietary regime than we
have now.
Oh, speaking of which, I doneed to go to the supermarket
before I go home tonight too.
But my idea was hey, you know,there are some really
interesting stories, and I'vehad the opportunity to interview
some really fascinatingresearchers that have written
(32:21):
about archaeological excavationsin Jordan.
The oldest known grain storagesite that historians have found
so far 11,000 years ago inJordan, where grain was stored
in clay pots and the walls ofthe storage building.
Not only were they mud clayconstruction, but they also
(32:44):
contained various hulls from theearly form of wheat that they
were using.
So even then they were usingthe hulls as a reinforcement for
the mortar.
Jim Lenz (32:56):
Wow, it was everything , yeah, as much as the mortar.
Dr. Kurt Rosentrater (32:58):
Wow, it's everything.
Jim Lenz (32:59):
Yeah, as much as it could Exactly.
I encourage authors to checkthat out.
Additionally, kirk, you're theauthor of three published books
available for grainprofessionals and grain
enthusiasts.
One of the books is calledStorage of Cereal Grains and
their Products.
Another book is called Kent'sDistillers Grains Production,
properties and Utilization.
Please share some briefinsights.
(33:19):
What are all those books here?
I understand you're alsowriting one now.
Dr. Kurt Rosentrater (33:24):
Oh my yes, there's so much work that needs
to be done, so much informationthat needs to be put out into
the world.
The reason I started writingthese books was because the
people that I've worked withover the years know a lot of
information, but an actualcompilation of information for
people who might be doing designor operations.
(33:46):
The information is reallypretty diverse and pretty
scattered, and so that was theimpetus why I have a book about
distiller's grains, a book aboutgrain processing and then a
book about grain storage.
So I don't want to do shamelessself-promotion, but I think
we've covered the grain industrypretty well with those three
(34:08):
publications.
Now there's definitely more workthat needs to be done, and I
think you brought up aninteresting point earlier in our
conversation about workoverseas.
What we think about in terms ofgrain storage, preservation and
processing in the USA or Canadais not exactly the way it is
all around the world.
There are still communitiesaround the world that struggle
(34:31):
to eat every day, and simplebasic techniques are generally
more appropriate than what wethink about in terms of
large-scale, massive processing.
So there's still so much workto be done.
Jim Lenz (34:45):
Yeah, good point.
Thank you for your support.
I'm a member of Jeeps.
I recently spoke at the JeepsExchange 2024.
I was in that audience.
You were a big hit.
It really was an enlighteningpresentation.
That audience, you were a bighit.
It really was an enlighteningpresentation.
I will leave the link in theshow notes on how listeners can
watch and listen to yourinteractive presentation called
Facility Design Considerationsfor Maximizing Efficiencies and
(35:08):
Throughputs.
But real briefly, can you givea description of what that's
about?
Dr. Kurt Rosentrater (35:14):
Sure, so I will harken back to a few
minutes ago in our conversation.
You know what are grainfacilities doing, whether
they're storage or processingfacilities.
What are some things that theyare doing to make their
processing operations moreefficient, to reduce their
operating costs and ultimatelyto reduce their energy
(35:35):
consumption, which ultimatelywill reduce their scope one and
scope two emissions.
So all of the things thatcompanies are doing related to
lights and motors and insulationand energy audits, all of those
things lots of companies aredoing, instrumentation and
sensors and control systems.
(35:55):
It's not just about preservingthe quality of the grain,
although that's important.
It's also about making surethat you can reduce your
operating costs so that yourmargin is more favorable.
Jim Lenz (36:10):
I encourage listeners to check that out.
Make sure you share that withyour colleagues.
It really will bring up somegreat discussions.
And finally, Kurt, if listenerswant to connect with you, what
are the best ways for them to doso?
Dr. Kurt Rosentrater (36:22):
So I am always available through my
university website.
My contact information is on myuniversity website, but there's
also CerealGrainCafecom.
They have my contactinformation there as well.
I'm quite active on LinkedIn,so feel free to reach out to me
on LinkedIn as well.
Jim Lenz (36:42):
Dr Kurt Rosentraitor, thank you for serving as guests
on Whole Grain.
On behalf of the entire JEEPSteam, we thank you for your
commitment to the greater grainhandling and processing industry
.
It's been an honor and apleasure to spend some time with
you and thank you for spendingyour time and talents with Whole
Grain podcast listeners.
Thank you so much.
It was a pleasure to spend sometime with you and thank you for
spending your time and talentswith Whole Grain Podcast
listeners.
Dr. Kurt Rosentrater (37:00):
Thank you so much.
It was a pleasure.
Look forward to talking again.
Jim Lenz (37:05):
Thank you.
Our episodes of Whole Grain aresuper easy to share with others
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google Podcasts and more.
Just do a search for WholeGrain.
Remember to hit the subscribebutton.
That way, every episode will bedownloaded to your device as
(37:25):
soon as it is released.
You can quickly catch up onpast episodes as well.
Additionally, you can connectwith the Whole Grain show on the
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(37:47):
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We thank you for that.
The Whole Grain Show is aproduction of Jeeps, the Grain
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(38:10):
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Be sure to check out thewebsite jeepscom Again G-E-A-P-S
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Please reach out to me.
Jim Lenz, director of GlobalEducation at Jeeps and host and
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We have an in-house audioproduction studio that can serve
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My email to connect with me isjames at jeepscom.
(38:54):
J-a-m-e-s at G-E-A-P-Scom.
We look forward to connectingwith you.
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