September 30, 2025 • 49 mins
California is on the verge of legalizing E15 fuel for the first time after the legislature unanimously passed Assembly Bill 30. In this episode of the Whole Grain Podcast, Jim Lenz, Director of Global Education and Training at GEAPS, talks with Geoff Cooper, President & CEO of the Renewable Fuels Association (RFA), about how persistence, coalition-building, and strategy led to this milestone — and what it means for consumers, retailers, policymakers, and grain professionals. From lower costs and cleaner air to ripple effects across ethanol markets and grain demand, this conversation explores how one bill could reshape the renewable fuels landscape for decades.
Geoff Cooper is President and CEO of the RFA, the leading trade association for America’s ethanol industry. Since joining RFA in 2008, he has driven market growth, shaped policy, and expanded global demand for ethanol and co-products. A former U.S. Army captain specializing in fuel logistics, Geoff has served on key advisory boards and testified before state and federal bodies. He is widely recognized as a leader in the bioeconomy and a strong advocate for sustainable fuels.
Key Takeaways
- AB30 passed unanimously — a historic first for ethanol legislation — and includes an urgency clause to make E15 legal immediately once signed.
- Consumers could save ~$2.7 billion annually (about $200 per household) with E15, typically priced 10–30¢ per gallon lower than E10.
- Environmental benefits include reduced smog-forming emissions, particulate matter, carbon monoxide, and greenhouse gases.
- Ethanol production is zero-waste: starch becomes fuel while protein, fat, and fiber become livestock feed.
- A broad coalition — retailers, farm groups, transport associations, chambers of commerce, veterans, and labor — made AB30 possible.
- California’s decision accelerates federal momentum for year-round E15 and influences fuel policy worldwide.
- Market impact: 600–700 million gallons of additional ethanol demand could require 200–250 million more bushels of corn, boosting grain handling and transport.
Pull Quotes
- “This is the first ethanol-friendly bill to move through the California legislature with unanimous support.”
- “E15 delivers typical pump savings of 10–30 cents per gallon — and we’ve seen even larger discounts.”
- “The ethanol process today is zero-waste — starch becomes fuel, and protein, fat, and fiber become livestock feed.”
- “California’s move on E15 sends a signal nationwide and around the world.”
Important Links & Related Episodes
- Renewable Fuels Association (RFA) — https://ethanolrfa.org/
- Fueling the Future: The Role of Renewable Fuels in the Grain Industry with RFA's Robert White
- E15, Ethanol and the Future of Agriculture with Emily Skor of Growth Energy
- Driving Change: The
Grain Elevator and Processing Society champions, connects and serves the global grain industry and its members. Be sure to visit GEAPS’ website to learn how you can grow your network, support your personal professional development, and advance your career. Thank you for listening to another episode of GEAPS’ Whole Grain podcast.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jim Lenz (00:02):
California just made history and it's a story with
major implications for ourentire industry.
For the first time ever, E-15fuel is poised to become legal
in the nation's largest state.
Following the unanimous passageof Assembly Bill 30, this
landmark decision could meanlower prices, cleaner air, and
stronger demand for corn andethanol.
Changes that reach deep in thegrain handling and processing
(00:24):
world.
In this episode of the WholeGrain Podcast, you'll hear the
inside story from someone whohelped make it happen.
Geoff Cooper, President and CEOof the Renewable Fuels
Association, joins me to sharehow years of persistence in
coalition building and strategypaid off.
And one of these breakthroughmeasures for consumers,
retailers, policymakers, grainhandlers, grain processors,
(00:46):
vendors and suppliers, and ofcourse, producers and farmers.
From the behind-the-scenes effort in Sacramento to the ripple effects across the Midwest and beyond, this conversation explores how a single bill could reshape the renewable fuels landscape for decades to come.
Stay tuned.
The Whole Grain show bringsgrain professionals like you
(01:18):
together from 94 countries fromaround the world.
My name is Jim Lens, your hostand director of global education
and training at Jeeps, wherethe mission of the Grain
Elevator and Processing Societyis to champion, connect, and
serve the global grain industryand our members.
Today we're turning ourattention to one of the biggest
renewable fuel developments inrecent memory, California's AB30
(01:39):
and what it means for ethanol,grain, and the future of energy.
Geoff Cooper is here to walk usthrough how it happened, why it
matters, and what's next.
And just like recent episodes,we'll wrap up with reflection
questions you can use with yourteam to turn today's insights
into action.
All that and more coming upnext.
We are connecting with GeoffCooper.
(02:23):
Welcome and thank you forserving as guests in the Whole
Grain Podcast, Geoff.
Well, thanks for having me,Jim.
Now, our listeners work in thegrain handling and processing
industry.
In case they may be unfamiliarwith RFA, could you share the
work of the Renewable FuelsAssociation and who you
represent?
Geoff Cooper (02:38):
Yeah, so the Renewable Fuels Association is
the nation's oldest and mostauthoritative trade association
for America's ethanol producersand frankly the larger ethanol
industry.
RFA was originally founded in1981, so we've been around as
long as the ethanol industryitself has been in existence
here in the United States, morethan 40 years.
(03:00):
Our members are primarilyethanol producers, and they
really come in all shapes andsizes.
We have big agribusinesscompanies, we have farmer-owned
co-ops and LLCs, we have bigproducers, small producers.
You know, most of our memberproducers are using corn as a
feedstock, but we've also gotfacilities that use a fair
(03:22):
amount of grain sorghum.
And then we have even verysmall companies that are using
waste products as feedstock tomake ethanol.
So food and beverage processingwaste and other waste streams
are being converted intoethanol, and we represent those
folks as well.
We also have associate members,and those are companies that
are vendors to the industry,their suppliers, their farm
(03:45):
groups, their marketers, theirshippers.
We have rail companies that arepart of the RFA, for example.
So a very broad and diversemembership.
But our focus, of course, isadvancing policies that help
expand the market for ethanoland drive demand and drive
growth in the industry, reallyacross all facets of the
(04:07):
marketplace.
We also have some members thatare looking at new uses and
applications of ethanol.
We talk about sustainableaviation fuel and chemical uses
and potentially maritime fuel.
So we have some of thosecompanies involved in our
membership as well.
Jim Lenz (04:21):
Certainly an exciting time, and uh, we're gonna talk
about how exciting really thisis with new developments that
you, your organization andothers have done here as a main
topic.
But I do want to point out thatI think this is the the case,
and please confirm that the thegrain processing industry not
only supports high employment ofmilitary veterans, but they are
(04:42):
one of the leaders in thecomposition of military veterans
as far as industries go.
Is that correct?
Geoff Cooper (04:48):
That's exactly right.
And in fact, the Department ofEnergy produces a report every
year, sort of a survey acrossdifferent energy sectors.
And what they have consistentlyfound in the last several years
is that the ethanol industryspecifically employs a larger
share of veterans than any othersegment of the energy industry.
Uh, something around 16% of ourworkforce are veterans of the
(05:12):
armed forces.
And that's particularlygratifying to me because I
myself am a veteran.
I spent some time in the U.S.
Army where my focus was onpetroleum product logistics and
distribution.
So my unit's mission was tomove fuel to wherever it was
needed on the battlefield.
We were refueling everythingfrom tanks and helicopters to
(05:35):
generators and Humvees.
So it is, I think, sort of fullcircle for me to be working and
helping to lead an industrythat has such a connection and
commitment to our veterans.
I think a lot of veterans finda home in this industry because
the goals and the values and themission align very well with
(05:56):
what they were doing in themilitary.
And those skill sets that theylearned in the military also
transfer very well into theethanol and ag industries.
You know, after I left theArmy, I spent five years at the
National Corn GrowersAssociation working on ethanol
market development and policyissues, and then came to RFA in
(06:18):
2008.
So I've been here about 17years in various capacities and
serving as the CEO for the lastsix or seven years.
Jim Lenz (06:27):
Fantastic.
Great background on theorganization, who your members
are, who you support, andactually you provide even more
than I expected there for themilitary.
And I like how you shared thatthere's alignment.
So anybody out there listeningwho is a military veteran or who
knows someone, get in contactwith RFA.
How does that sound?
Geoff Cooper (06:47):
Absolutely.
And we actually have a veteransfor renewable fuels group that
we support.
It's it's very active, it's agreat network for veterans
working in the industry and andeven veterans just interested in
what we're doing in thisindustry to get together and
talk.
Jim Lenz (07:01):
Fantastic.
That's a wonderful thing youdo.
In fact, uh I don't think youmentioned this, but you actually
were an officer in the Army.
Is that correct?
Geoff Cooper (07:08):
I was.
I ended up achieving the rankof captain before I got out.
So again, wonderful experiencein the Army.
I I learned so much, not justabout the fuel business and
moving fuel and the logisticsinvolved in doing that, but just
so many other skills that haveserved me well in this role and
serve me well in life.
Jim Lenz (07:27):
Fantastic.
Your colleague, Robert White,he was a guest in the whole
grain podcast before.
He has that background as well.
I encourage listeners to, afterthey listen to this episode, uh
make sure you do that.
And if you're a member ofJeeps, you have access to the
video library.
And he spoke at the JeepsExchange, a big annual event for
the green industry there.
And uh you can uh listen andwatch him do his one of his
(07:50):
presentations.
So great to have connectionshere.
I know John Calpert, our CEO ofJeeps, has been a big uh
proponent of making goodconnections here, and we're all
aligned, both organizations arealigned, so it's fantastic.
Absolutely.
So now let's set the scene.
California state passes AB 30,39 to 0, now just one step from
(08:11):
becoming law.
Tell us about that.
Why is it historic for ourlisteners?
Geoff Cooper (08:15):
Well, it's a huge story, and you're absolutely
right.
Uh Assembly Bill 30 passed outof the Senate on September 3rd.
That was the final step in thelegislative process.
And what makes it even morefascinating is it passed
unanimously, 39 to zero, as youmentioned, out of the Senate.
Uh, but every vote on this billwas unanimous, coming out of
(08:37):
the assembly on a unanimousvote, coming out of the
committees where review of thislegislation first started.
Those were all unanimous votes.
So we've never seen in thehistory of the ethanol industry
an ethanol-friendly bill makeits way through the California
legislature, period, let alonecome through that process with
(08:58):
unanimous support on everysingle vote.
It really is a big deal.
And I think it it really speaksto the fact that California
policymakers are recognizing thetremendous opportunity and the
potential here with expandingethanol use in that state to
help lower costs for theirconsumers, help further clean up
(09:20):
the air, help extend fuelsupplies.
There's just so many benefits,and I know we're going to talk
about some of that, but this isa monumental achievement.
It was something a lot of folksa year ago, two years ago, when
we started down this road,thought was not possible.
And we just kept pushing ahead.
And here we are today, just onestep away from this bill
becoming law.
(09:40):
We're just waiting on thegovernor's signature at this
point.
Jim Lenz (09:43):
That's fantastic.
So 39 to 0 is a vote.
Why is it significant that thisbill passed unanimously in both
chambers?
Geoff Cooper (09:51):
Well, again, I think it really speaks to the
fact that legislators in thestate of California are
recognizing they have a problem.
Petroleum refineries areleaving the state or announcing
their plans to leave the state.
There are still millions, tensof millions of vehicles on the
road in California that run onliquid fuels.
And certainly their policypriorities have been around, you
(10:13):
know, a transition to electricvehicles.
But the bottom line isconsumers are saying, look, I
can't afford an electricvehicle.
I don't want an electricvehicle.
I like my 2005 Chevy SilverAuto or, you know, whatever
they're driving, and they needfuels and they need access to
affordable fuels to continuepowering those vehicles.
And I think there's a goodrecognition of that in the
(10:35):
legislature.
I think there's a growingrecognition of that in Governor
Newsom's office.
And so that's why this is sucha historic moment is they're
they're seeing E-15 as a way tohelp address those concerns that
they're hearing from voters inthe state.
Jim Lenz (10:49):
Fantastic.
Walk us through what happensnext with Governor Newsome's
desk.
What are the odds of signature?
Geoff Cooper (10:55):
Well, and first I should say what the bill does.
And the bill uh immediatelylegalizes E-15 in the state of
California.
The legislature basically said,look, we're tired of waiting on
the regulatory agencies to dothis.
We're going to take the bull bythe horns here.
They saw an opportunity to getlower-cost fuels into the
marketplace and they took it.
And so the next step followingpassage of this bill out of the
(11:18):
Senate is for the governor tosign it.
It's sitting on his deskawaiting signature.
He has 30 days from the datewhen he received the bill.
We do expect that he will signthe bill into law.
He's expressed support for E-15in the past.
He's called on those regulatoryagencies to expedite their
process.
So that's it.
I mean, we're just waitinganxiously for Governor Newsom to
(11:42):
put pen to paper and sign thatbill into law, which would
immediately authorize E-15 as alegal fuel in that state.
Jim Lenz (11:49):
The urgency clause, how quickly could Californians
see E-15 at the pump?
Geoff Cooper (11:55):
Yeah, because the legislators who introduced this
bill had the foresight, they uhattached an urgency clause to
this legislation, which meansthat immediately upon the
governor's signature, E-15becomes a legal fuel and should
be available to the to themarketplace should retailers,
(12:16):
should gas stations choose tooffer the fuel.
Now, there's a couple of thingsthat we think the Air Resources
Board, the regulatory agency incharge, needs to do to provide
some guidance and some clarityon how gas stations can offer
this fuel, but that can happenin relatively short order, in
our view.
And we're hopeful that by theend of the year, we could see
(12:37):
some stations offering this fuelto consumers at a lower cost.
There's not a lot thatretailers need to do to switch
from E-10 to E-15.
Their equipment in most casesis fully compatible.
It's ready for the transition,it's suitable for E-15.
They might have to make a fewtweaks here and there, but this
(12:58):
should be a relatively seamlesstransition for those gas
stations who choose to offer thefuel.
And again, we think lots ofthem will choose to offer E-15
because of its lower price,because of its cost
competitiveness, and because ofits environmental benefits.
And we know that California isa state where drivers and
consumers put a big premium onenvironmental performance and
(13:22):
benefits.
So we think we're close.
We believe we are on theprecipice of actually seeing
this fuel in the in theCalifornia marketplace after
years of trying to get it there.
Jim Lenz (13:33):
Wow.
Anxiously awaiting.
That's really positive news.
The E15, as you said, it'sgoing to be marketed as lower
costs.
It is.
I see that at the fuel pump.
It's amazing.
I think I've seen, you know,from a personal perspective, I'm
in Wisconsin, state ofWisconsin, and I think I have
seen it anywhere from like eightcents to possibly 65 cents
(13:55):
lower.
Is that yeah?
Geoff Cooper (13:57):
We do see a a wide range of discounts where E-15
is being offered today.
Typically, if you kind of takethe averages, we we often see
discounts in the range of 10 to30 cents per gallon.
That's that's what's fairlytypical across the Midwest where
E-15 is being offered today.
Sometimes you do see largerdiscounts than that.
(14:19):
You know, we have seen 50, 60cents.
We've seen some stationsoffering E-15 for 80 cents or
even a dollar a gallon less thanE10 at certain times.
So the economic benefits areclear, they're proven.
And again, we think theCalifornia uh marketplace and
policymakers have seen that withtheir own eyes.
(14:40):
They've they've recognized thatthey're that these are benefits
that they want to extend totheir consumers as well.
Jim Lenz (14:45):
Consumers, of course, looking for ways to save, reduce
expenses for household income.
Tell me if this is correct.
I thought I read $2.7 billionannual savings and $200 per
household.
Is where does that come from?
Tell me more.
Is that uh Yeah?
Geoff Cooper (15:06):
So the University of California, Berkeley, did a
study in conjunction with aneconomist at the U.S.
Naval Academy looking at whatintroducing E-15 could mean
economically in the state ofCalifornia.
And those are the numbers theyfound.
They found across the statewideeconomy, if Californian uh gas
(15:26):
stations replace E-10 with E-15,that savings uh to the economy
could be on the order of $2.7billion.
Now, when you look at what thatmeans per household, yeah, it's
about $200 per Californiahousehold.
And when you look at what itmeans per gallon, their study
found an average savings ofaround 20 cents per gallon when
(15:46):
you look at E15 versus E10.
And again, that's veryconsistent with what we've seen
in other parts of the countrywhere E-15 is being offered
today.
And I, again, I want tounderscore this was not an RFA
research paper or study.
This was not the University ofNebraska, this was not Iowa
State University, this was theUniversity of California,
(16:09):
Berkeley, which, you know,doesn't really have uh a dog in
the hunt or an axe to grind whenit comes to ethanol and E-15
and some of these issues.
It was uh uh a truly objectivelook at what this could mean for
the state's economy, and theresults I think were
resoundingly positive and reallyconfirm what we've seen in
other parts of the country.
Jim Lenz (16:30):
That's important that you state that.
Yeah, independent mind uh notat all uh involved with this as
one of the players.
So we're talking aboutactually, you know what?
I think it might be good whenwe've been seeing E15, right?
And when you're at the pump asa consumer, I'm filling up my my
vehicle, it's 88, right?
Just so everybody knows.
Geoff Cooper (16:51):
Yeah, we we do see E-15 marketed in different ways
by different fuel retailers.
Uh, many of them have chosen tomarket E-15 as unleaded 88, uh,
with that 88 referring to theoctane value of E-15.
You know, in addition to alower price with E-15, you're
getting a slight octane boostbecause as you add more ethanol,
(17:13):
you're adding more octane.
And we know that octane isimportant for performance and
just efficiency in the engine.
So we do see it marketed as 88unleaded or 88 octane in many
places.
We see it, it has various namesand and sort of brands
depending on what what stationyou go to.
But anytime you see that 88octane button, chances are it's
(17:36):
it's going to be E15.
Jim Lenz (17:38):
Many other states offer that.
So let's say there's uh someonepull up to the gas station and
they fill up with E15 fuel, theyknow and feel good about the
decision because it means lowercost to them, less expenses.
But broadly speaking, outsideof that positive item, we can
also talk about smog andemissions, right?
What's the expectedenvironmental and health impact
(18:02):
for California communities?
Geoff Cooper (18:04):
Well, and and that's a really important point.
And certainly we have seenhistorically ethanol's ability,
and again, proven track record,to reduce smog and smog forming
emissions as part of thisprocess in California.
There was an exhaustive studydone where 20 vehicles were
tested on E-15 compared to E10.
(18:26):
They carefully looked at theemissions profile of each.
And what they found is E-15does reduce those emissions that
contribute to smog and groundlevel ozone formation.
And of course, that's been ahuge problem in certain parts of
California.
You look in the SouthernCalifornia, around LA and San
Diego, they have alwaysstruggled with smog in those
areas.
(18:46):
And what this study found, andthis was at University of
California Riverside, they foundreductions in particulate
matter emissions.
They found reductions in carbonmonoxide.
They even found a slightreduction in nitrogen oxide
emissions.
And overall, they found lowerozone forming potential from
(19:07):
E-15 than what you see with E10.
So there is absolutely an airquality benefit to adopting
E-15, and that's been veryimportant to California and part
of this whole discussion aswell.
We also know that California isvery focused on reducing
greenhouse gas emissions, CO2specifically coming out the
tailpipe of internal combustionengines.
(19:29):
And there's a benefit there aswell because E-15 is lower
emitting when it comes togreenhouse gas emissions, both
on the full life cycle picture,but also at the tailpipe.
And so we see a 2.5% or 3%incremental benefit from using
E-15 versus E10 when it comes tothose greenhouse gas emissions.
(19:50):
So there are clearenvironmental benefits, there
are clear economic benefits aswe've talked about.
And you're extending the fuelsupply, you're using a greater
volume of a domesticallyproduced product, and you're
helping farmers.
And that is important to a lotof folks.
And I know we'll get into thatas well.
Jim Lenz (20:07):
Yeah, so you definitely clearly stated the
benefits of E15.
Anything else to add whyeveryday drivers should care
about E15?
Geoff Cooper (20:15):
I think those are the big ones.
And just to break it down andbe very concise here, it's lower
cost at the pump.
It's a cleaner burning fuel,lower emissions, it's
domestically produced.
Those are three things that Ithink you ask any consumer.
Those are benefits, those arevalues that are going to
resonate with them.
Some consumers may place moreemphasis on one or the other.
(20:36):
We know that most consumers areprimarily driven by cost.
What does it mean for theirwallet?
What does it mean for theirpocketbook?
But again, particularly instates like California, there
are a lot of consumers that aremotivated by what does my use of
this product mean for theenvironment?
And they can feel good aboutchoosing E15, you know, compared
to some of the other fueloptions that are available.
Jim Lenz (20:58):
So we're on the brink of something huge, but it took a
lot of work.
So I want to talk about withyou the long road to success.
RFA started on this path backin 2018 with C ARB carb.
What were the biggestchallenges?
Geoff Cooper (21:12):
Well, yeah, and I think it's important for people
to understand that Californiahas its own process for
approving new fuels.
They don't follow the federalprocess like all the other
states do.
EPA at the federal level, theUS EPA, approved E-15 as a legal
fuel all the way back in 2011.
And so for the last 14 years,E-15 has been a legal fuel in 49
(21:37):
other states.
But California had its ownprocess, it always has, uh has
its own testing requirements, etcetera.
And so we've been trying towork with California during that
entire time to get them toadopt the federal standards for
E-15, or if they got to gothrough their own process, you
know, go through it.
(21:58):
But let's let's get it done.
When it comes to approving newfuels, they have what's called a
multimedia evaluation that isrequired.
And that means they have tolook at the environmental
impacts, the impacts on air,soil, and water of any new fuels
that may be introduced in themarketplace.
That requires, in in manycases, additional testing,
(22:20):
extensive research.
And that's what they've saidthey needed to do.
Well, that process finallystarted.
We were able to convince CARBto start that evaluation in
2018, but it was taking foreverfor them to get on with the
process.
And there's been fits andstarts and delays, and that's
really what led to thislegislation being drafted is
(22:42):
again, the California Assemblysaid, look, we can't we can't
afford to wait for theregulatory agencies to do what
they needed to do anymore.
We're going to take the bull bythe horns, we're going to take
this matter into our own hands,and we are going to pass
legislation that forces theissue.
So, yes, it's been a longprocess, it's been a slog.
We're not done with it yet, butwe can see the light at the end
(23:05):
of the tunnel finally.
After years and years of work,and frankly, millions of dollars
of investment in testing andresearch and studies and other
things that we've had to do toget to the point where we're at
today.
Jim Lenz (23:19):
So that's a good summary.
After six years of regulatorydelays, this is why you chose
the legislative path then,right?
Geoff Cooper (23:27):
That's right.
And again, I think we about 18months ago or two years ago
said, look, we we can keepspinning our wheels and hoping
that uh CARB, the regulatoryagency, you know, gets in gear
and moves forward with thisprocess.
But they were showing verylittle motivation, very little
interest in doing that.
And so we decided to try adifferent tack and talk to the
(23:50):
legislature about this and andhelp members of the assembly and
senate understand theopportunity that they were
missing because CARB wasdragging its feet on E-15.
And, you know, we weresuccessful in doing that and and
got the attention, got theinterest of key players in
legislature.
And we saw what happened thispast summer.
(24:11):
That bill essentially sailedthrough both chambers because
they got it.
And so now here we are, again,I think on the verge or on the
brink of finally having E-15 inthe marketplace because of the
vision and the leadership thatseveral members of the Assembly
showed to get this conversationstarted.
Jim Lenz (24:30):
Kind of what I want to talk about, too.
How important was a Californiaproblem solvers caucus and
leaders like Alvarez and Flora?
Geoff Cooper (24:38):
Well, I to put it simply, this would not have
happened without theirleadership.
Assemblymember Alvarez,Assemblymember Flora.
They immediately got it.
They immediately understood theopportunity.
Uh, this was a no-brainer forthem.
They they were they wereshocked that California hadn't
already moved on this.
They were frustrated that uhcarb has been dragging its feet
(25:00):
for so many years.
Both uh Alvarez and Flora arepart of the Problem Solvers
Caucus, which is a bipartisangroup of legislators in
California that, as the nameimplies, they want to solve
problems.
And they know that a majorproblem in that state today is
the high cost of fuel at thepump.
California has the highest gasprices in the country.
(25:23):
It's been that way for years.
They know it's going to getworse before it gets better as
refineries are closing down andmoving out of the state.
So as they looked at thatproblem, they said E-15 is a
solution.
It's not going to solve all theproblems, but it's a solution
and it and it should be an easyone.
It makes sense.
There's no reason not to dothis.
(25:44):
It's a win-win for you knowfuel prices, but also for the
environment, as we've discussed.
And so they really took thiscause up and ran with it.
We're incredibly effective inconvincing their colleagues in
the legislature that this was aworthy cause and that this is
something simple that thelegislature could do to help
consumers out, help everydayCalifornians get through the
(26:06):
month and and save some money atthe end of the day.
So we're very grateful to theirleadership and their support
and them taking the time tounderstand these issues and and
their advocacy.
So it really was a tremendouslyeffective partnership that we
had with the problem solverscaucus.
And again, without their work,we we wouldn't be here.
Jim Lenz (26:28):
You and your organization are instrumental in
building coalitions, right?
This could not have happenedwith that.
And so just to give listenersunderstanding, you're talking
about coalitions bringingtogether retailers, farmers, and
producers, truckers, labor,chamber of commerce, and more.
How did that come together?
Geoff Cooper (26:48):
Well, again, we know the only way to succeed
when you're promoting andadvocating for legislation is to
have a big tent and bring asmany stakeholders into that tent
as possible and as manysupporters as possible.
Certain groups have betterrelationships with certain
lawmakers than we do, and andvice versa.
(27:08):
So the whole idea was let'sgrow this coalition of support
for E-15 as large as we can.
Let's talk to business groups,let's talk.
I mean, we had veterans groupsinvolved, we had, as you said,
truckers, retailers, seniorgroups, retirees.
And again, it's it's not a hardsell, right?
If you can get five or 10minutes of their time and say,
(27:30):
here are the benefits from doingthis, here are the benefits
from E-15.
Why on earth is California not,you know, taking this
opportunity?
I mean, the light bulbimmediately goes on, and people
understand how this benefitstheir individual constituencies,
and they're happy to jump onboard and help the cause.
And so, yeah, I've been verypleased and pleasantly surprised
(27:53):
by the amount of support andthe diversity of support that we
were able to garner for thislegislation.
Jim Lenz (27:59):
I was in an ethanol plant in Iowa in the month of
August, and it is uh almostbreathtaking, beautiful, I have
to say, of the big amounds ofcoal products that are part of
the ethanol process industry,which many people know, and I
know there's some listeners thatdon't realize those coal
(28:21):
products.
Dr.
Kurt Rosentrader from IowaState University, he's been on
the show and he does a lot ofspeaking and is a professor
again at Iowa State University,does a lot of work in this space
and uh talks about coalproducts, used for cattle, used
for chickens, uh used emergingthings and fish production
operations and and so many more.
(28:42):
Uh I mean I think people needto realize that the grain
industry, if you look at allother industries, has got to be
one of the most efficientindustries on the planet.
Wouldn't you agree?
Geoff Cooper (28:59):
Absolutely.
And and you're you're you're100% correct.
The ethanol process today iszero waste.
We you put a bushel of corn inthe front end of an ethanol
plant, the starch portion ofthose corn kernels is fermented
into ethanol.
That's what becomes the fuel.
Everything else becomeslivestock feed.
(29:21):
The protein, the fat, thefiber, the other nutrients that
are in that corn kernel remainavailable to the livestock feed
supply chain.
And that is incrediblyimportant.
Distiller's grains have becomeone of the largest single
components of the feed industryhere in the United States.
(29:41):
And we're also exporting abouta third of the distiller's
grains that we produce becauselivestock and poultry feeders
around the world understand thebenefits of including this low
cost component in their feedrations.
And back to the conversation onCalifornia.
Guess what?
California has a lot ofchickens.
They have a lot of dairies.
They're all using distiller'sgrains.
(30:04):
And that's why, you know, whenwe went and talked to the
California Farm Bureau and otherfarm groups in the state,
they're like, oh yeah, weabsolutely support this.
We love distiller's grains.
If there's more of that supplyavailable because we're using
more fuel, more E15, moreethanol, yeah, that's that's a
win-win for us as well.
So it is an incrediblyimportant piece of the puzzle
(30:24):
that a lot of people, you know,outside of our industry don't
understand about the ethanolprocess.
And you're right, you go to anethanol plant and you see that
pile for the first time, and itreally hits you just how much
animal feed the ethanol industryis is producing and and what a
vital component of the feedmarket that is today.
Jim Lenz (30:45):
Yeah, I think lawmakers may not realize that.
I mean, that's a big piece.
That efficiency, those coolproducts, it's just uh ripple
effects.
In fact, let's do that.
Uh actually before we get tothe ripple effects, I just I
guess this is part of the rippleeffects industries, grain
industry for sure, and otherindustries, but there's always
going to be tough policyenvironments in just uh a few
(31:08):
sentences or just what do youthink?
What are lessons that youlearned or your organization
learned and and those youpartnered with that could be
applied to other tough policyenvironments?
Geoff Cooper (31:19):
Well, I I think through this California process,
one of the lessons learned, oror maybe one of the lessons
confirmed, I guess, would be abetter way of saying it for us,
is you've got to havecoalitions.
You you've got to have, you'vegot to bring along other
important constituencies, got tobring along other groups of
voters that other lawmakers careabout if you want to succeed.
(31:43):
And and we certainly have seenthat in California.
We talked about the coalitionwe were able to build there.
And that is something thatwe've got to do a better job of
translating and transferring toother policy battles that we're
fighting at the federal level inin other states.
We we've got to remember thatwhen we can go to a legislative
body with a broad and diversegroup of supporters, that ups
(32:06):
our chances of successexponentially.
You know, you may have alawmaker that that is very
focused on issues for seniorsand retirees, and that's really
what drives them.
If if you've got a grouprepresenting that constituency
that is with you, voicing itssupport for this legislation,
now now you've got anotherchampion.
Now you've got another friendin that legislative body.
(32:29):
So I think that's the biggesttakeaway is to truly succeed
with these legislativeapproaches, you've got to have
broad-based support.
Nobody can do this alone.
We certainly, as just theethanol industry, could have
never achieved this victorywithout working with all of
those other groups that we'vetalked about that were part of
(32:49):
that coalition.
Jim Lenz (32:50):
That's a great summary, confirmed lessons from
this big project and effort.
Now, let's look at rippleeffects beyond California.
California often sets trendsnationally.
How could this influencefederal year-round E-15
legislation?
Geoff Cooper (33:07):
Well, and that's another really unique uh piece
of the story in California, isbecause they have their own fuel
regulations and specificationsand you know air quality
regulations, they don't have thesame summertime barrier to
E-15.
So once this fuel is approvedfully, once it's in the
(33:28):
marketplace in California,they're not going to have that
same hurdle every summer thatmost of the other states in the
country have.
We think that is going to betremendously helpful in helping
to rapidly expand the use ofE-15 in the state of California.
And then I think, you know,other states can look at that
model and say, yeah, this iswhat can happen when you don't
(33:51):
have that summertime barrier.
And if you can sell E-15year-round, 365 days a year,
it's it's going to sell.
Consumers want it, they'regoing to buy it.
Things can expand rapidly if wejust clear away these barriers.
And so I think California isgoing to be a good test case to
really show that yes, thisvolatility, this vapor pressure
(34:13):
issue has been a seriousimpediment in the rest of the
country that has prevented morerapid adoption of E-15.
And if there are ways to clearthat away, which there are, then
things can really take off.
And I think that's going to be,you know, one of the signals
that is sent by Californiamoving to E-15.
Jim Lenz (34:32):
Signals.
Interesting.
With California on board, doesthis change the narrative in
Washington?
Geoff Cooper (34:38):
Uh I think it it does to some extent because it
also I think gets the attentionof some of those lawmakers in
Washington who, like California,the last 10 years, have
believed that the only way toclean up transportation fuels is
to get rid of them and move toelectric vehicles.
And let's eliminate theinternal combustion engine,
(35:00):
let's eliminate liquid fuels,and let's just rush headlong
into electric vehicles foreverybody.
But now you've got Californiasaying, uh, uh, we're taking a
step back from that approachbecause so far it isn't working
very well.
And we're looking at otheroptions to kind of ease that
transition or ease that glidepath.
And E-15 is one of those.
(35:21):
So I do think this is going tochange the conversation in
Washington, where we have hadsome, especially on the left
side of the aisle, who havethought, well, we're sort of,
you know, are we wasting ourtime with E-15?
It doesn't offer, you know,substantial environmental
benefits over E-10, uh, which ofcourse we would argue
otherwise, and maybe get themthinking about more incremental
(35:43):
approaches and wake them up tothe fact that yes, E-15
absolutely does providebenefits, both environmentally
but also in terms of thepocketbook for consumers who are
who are struggling right now.
So yeah, I I again I thinkthere's going to be lots of
positive lessons learned fromCalifornia's experience, and and
it'll be interesting to see howthat translates into federal
(36:04):
action.
Jim Lenz (36:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
You think this could be just ahuge uh leaning forward and
making this happen and it'sexciting.
Thank you for what you havedone for ethanol production and
changing a mindset.
There's an education that takesplace during all this.
I know you right now have teammembers.
I've seen it on LinkedIn, acouple of them who are doing
(36:28):
workshops in preparation forthis.
That's what I'm telling you.
Thank you for doing that.
You want to just give them somesome note of what you and team
are doing?
Geoff Cooper (36:37):
You're absolutely right.
It's all about education.
And again, the real key here isjust finding the time and
getting the time.
And sometimes it only takes 10minutes.
It only takes 15 minutes, butgetting someone's undivided
attention for that period oftime to explain to them and
provide the facts on what we'redoing in the ethanol industry,
(36:59):
why we're doing it, what theimpacts are, what the benefits
are.
Again, it's it's not a hardsell.
It's it's easy to get peoplebought in if you just have that
opportunity to explain some ofthese things and dispel some of
the myths that they've heardabout ethanol over the years,
right?
It's it's not hard to uhdevelop new champions and new
(37:19):
advocates if you can just gettheir undivided attention.
So we are doing that inCalifornia today in conjunction
with all the legislativeactivity.
We're also hosting andsponsoring a series of workshops
for gas station owners, forfuel marketers, for companies
that supply dispensers and tanksand other equipment to that
(37:41):
sector to get them up to speedon E-15.
Again, the fuel hasn't beenavailable, it hasn't been legal
in the state.
And so a lot of them don't haveany idea what E-15 is even is.
And so we're kind of startingat square one, just doing the
basic education on here's whatE-15 is, here's what would be
required for you to offer it,and here are the benefits.
(38:02):
And so we are covering thestate with those workshops.
We've already had several thathave been completed, have I
think another eight or tenscheduled over the next month or
so.
And again, the the idea, thegoal of those workshops is just
to get the fuel supply chain inthat state familiarized with
E-15, up to speed on what'shappened with the legislation,
and most importantly, get themto understand the benefits of
(38:25):
offering this fuel to theircustomers.
Jim Lenz (38:27):
I love strategy, but the execution of the strategy is
most important.
So when I saw that they weredoing workshops, that just all
makes sense.
And you said press by the endof this year that could happen.
It doesn't happen if you don'tprepare and educate.
So after this, very good news,did so much work to that.
But no, you are not stopping.
You're executing on this allthe way to what's the primary
(38:50):
goal is.
Fantastic.
What does this mean for Midwestethanol producers and the grain
professionals who supply them?
Geoff Cooper (38:58):
Yeah, yeah, that and that's that's a great
question and and an importantquestion.
And when we look at California,it is one of the single largest
consumers of of gasoline in inthe country.
They're typically number one ornumber two in terms of how much
gasoline they consume.
And again, we all know they'vebeen moving toward
(39:19):
electrification and EVs andtrying to reduce liquid fuel
consumption.
But the the fact of the matteris they're the most populous
state in the country.
And so they they have the mostvehicles in the country and they
still use a lot of gasoline.
Last year they used about 14billion gallons of gasoline.
Almost all of that contained10% ethanol.
So it's one of our largestethanol markets.
(39:41):
1.4 billion gallons of ethanolwe've been consuming in the
state of California.
If that is all replaced by E15,and that's not going to happen
overnight, but when thateventually happens, now you're
growing the market for ethanolin the state by another 600, 700
million gallons, right?
And so you asked what thatmeans for Midwest ethanol
(40:02):
producers.
Well, yeah, now you've got newdemand, a new source of demand
for six or seven hundred milliongallons of product.
That's the output from six orseven average sized ethanol
plants, right?
And then you look at the rippleimpacts.
Well, what does that mean forthe corn grower?
What does that mean for thegrain handler?
Well, you know, to make six orseven hundred million gallons of
(40:24):
ethanol, we need 200 or 250million bushels of corn.
And that's got to come fromsomewhere.
So it's a demand boost for thefarmer, it's increased
throughput for the grainhandler, more rail cars, more
trucks, more storage, moreelevation.
It's so it really does rippleacross the entire sector and
create new demand opportunitiesand new value opportunities.
(40:46):
And that's really, really whatwe're after.
Jim Lenz (40:49):
Huge ripple effect.
Grain in the United States istransported around the world.
So I can't not think further.
I would love your thoughts onthis.
Could this open doorsinternationally as well?
Geoff Cooper (41:09):
Well, it it can, and and we think it already is.
We think there are countriesaround the world that, of
course, are watching what we dovery closely in the ethanol
industry here in the U.S.
We are the world's leader interms of ethanol production and
also the volume of ethanolconsumed.
When they see states likeCalifornia moving to higher
(41:31):
blends, you know, 15% ethanol,that that again is a signal that
is being sent around the worldto countries like Japan and
Vietnam and Indonesia and youknow, countries in Europe that
look, the U.S.
is continuing to increase itsuse of this low-carbon, lower
cost fuel.
They're seeing the benefits.
(41:52):
We need to see those benefitsas well.
And frankly, we're seeingcountries like India, who 10
years ago blended almost noethanol whatsoever.
And they are quickly on atrajectory to be blending E20
nationwide, 20% ethanolnationwide.
And a lot of what's drivingthat is looking at the
experience in other countries,what we've done here in the
(42:14):
U.S., what the Brazilians havedone with their ethanol
industry.
So, yes, every time we see astate taking action like
California is taking, it's notjust important for California,
it's not just important forWashington, D.C.
People around the world arepaying attention.
And again, that's a signal thatthat could be, we think will be
overall positive for the U.S.
Jim Lenz (42:35):
ethanol industry.
Fantastic.
Okay, real briefly, the roadahead.
Next steps, Jeff.
What's still needed from carband regulators, even if A B 30
is signed?
Geoff Cooper (42:46):
Yeah, so again, we believe A B 30 will be signed
into law by Governor Newsomesometime soon.
And at that point, the the fuelis a legal fuel in the state.
Uh, but you're going to havegas stations, you're going to
have suppliers saying, okay,well, now that it's legal, how
do we actually, you know, offerthis fuel?
And so we do believe there aregoing to be some things that
(43:07):
CARB, uh the regulator incharge, needs to do to lay out
uh some interim guidance, sometemporary guidance to those
companies that want to offerthis fuel that explains how to
do it in a way that is compliantwith their regulations.
We think that can be easilydone.
We don't think it should take alot of time.
(43:27):
We saw just yesterday that Carbhas already scheduled a
workshop on October 14th tobegin this conversation, which
is great news.
But, you know, we don't see areason to wait.
We need to get guidance out tothe fuel sector as soon as
possible so they know what theyneed to do to offer this fuel.
So those are the next steps.
And then, you know, longerterm, CARB is going to continue
(43:50):
doing its finishing up itsprocess, and they expect that
could take some time to create aformal fuel specification and
and and some of the other thingsrequired.
But in the interim, because ofthis legislation, it will be law
that E-15 is illegal fuel andthey need to take steps to make
sure that gas stations can offerit.
Jim Lenz (44:10):
Fantastic.
And you confirm that RFA issupporting retailers and
suppliers through workshops andeducation.
That's fantastic.
Well done.
What should stakeholders fromgrain handlers to fuel marketers
watch for in the coming months?
Geoff Cooper (44:24):
Well, uh, yeah, I think there's going to be a
couple of key milestones to lookout for.
And one of those, of course, isgoing to be the governor
signing the bill.
Again, we expect that to happensoon.
The the second one to watch foris some sort of interim or
temporary guidance from carb, aswe've discussed, that gives
retailers and and terminaloperators and others more
(44:45):
clarity on how to offer E-15.
And then I think the the thirdpiece to watch very closely is
the conclusion of CARB's formalrulemaking process.
And again, we don't think itshould take that long, but
they've said that could take upto a year or so.
But the bottom line is E-15should be available very soon in
the state, thanks to thislegislation, even while CARB is
(45:08):
finishing its formal regulatoryprocess.
Jim Lenz (45:11):
Awesome.
Awesome.
Now, a quick recap here AB 30,it's ways to deliver lower
prices.
You also shared cleaner air andexpanded markets.
But also, I think on behalf ofthe Jeeps organization, we thank
you and the RFA organizationfor what you're doing and
developing a coalition.
Yes, you are lowering pricesfor fuel.
Yes, you are providing cleanerair, and yes, you're providing
(45:34):
expanded markets, but alsoyou're supporting families from
those heavily needed producersand farmers all the way through
the supply chain, the grainhandling and processing
facilities.
You have all thosetransportation trucking and rail
and shipping, and it's justincredible what you've done to
support them.
And of course, all theretailers that support those
(45:55):
organizations.
Thank you for what you've done.
You've been a terrific guest.
You provided all theseincredible insights, and your
leadership has been just soincredible, not just for your
organization and who you serve,but just for the whole grain
industry in general.
So thank you so much.
Geoff Cooper (46:10):
Well, thanks for meeting with me and having the
conversation today, Jim.
I I I I really appreciate thework that you all do and Jeeps
does, and certainly appreciateyou putting a spotlight on the
importance of this developmentin California and what it means
for the entire economy andcertainly what it means for
agriculture and the folks thatour two organizations represent.
(46:30):
You you mentioned just theripple impacts that this can
have, and they are substantial.
So thank you again for shiningsome light on that.
Jim Lenz (46:37):
This is huge news.
Listeners, you just heard it.
This is Geoff Cooper, CEO ofRFA, the Renewable Fuels
Association.
If you like this episode, and Iknow you will and do, I
encourage you to also listen toanother Jeeps Whole Grain
Podcast episode by hiscolleague, Robert White.
It provides a really goodfoundation overview and the
(46:59):
impact of ethanol production inour world.
So I encourage you to do that.
Thank you, Jeff, so much forserving as guests in the Whole
Grain Podcast.
Thanks again for having me.
That wraps up today's episodeof the GEAPS Whole Grain
Podcast.
A big thank you to GeoffCooper, president and CEO of the
Renewable Fuels Association,for joining us and for sharing
the story behind this historicmilestone into renewable fuels.
(47:21):
As we've heard today,California's decision to open
the door to E-15 isn't just apolicy win, it's a pivotal
moment that could reshape fuelmarkets, strengthen demand for
grain, and accelerate ourindustry's role in building a
cleaner, more sustainablefuture?
I'd like to leave you with afew questions to reflect on and
perhaps discuss with your team.
How might the legalization ofE-15 in California affect demand
(47:45):
for grain and ethanol in yourregion?
What lessons can our industrylearn from the coalition
building and persistence thatmade AB30 possible?
How could federal year-roundE-15 policy change the future of
grain handling and processing?
And finally, what steps canyour facility take today to
prepare for the opportunitiesthis shift will bring?
(48:08):
Remember, GEAPS Grain Elevatorand Processing Society offers
resources to help you grow andstay ahead, including over 25
online and on-demand courses,hands-on training offerings, a
searchable library of over 200industry videos, interactive
webinars, our next gen pathprogram for interns and those
early in their careers, aglobally recognized
(48:29):
credentialing program foremerging leaders and veterans of
the industry, digital grainglossary, local chapters for
networking and maintenance dayprograms, and so much more.
And of course, don't miss GEAPSExchange, the industry's
premier event.
Visit GEAPS.com.
That's G-E-A-P-S dot com toexplore more ways to learn,
grow, and connect.
(48:50):
I'm Jim Lenz, Director ofGlobal Education and Training at
GEAPS.
Thanks for listening, and untilnext time, keep feeding,
fueling, and clothing the world.
California just made history and it's a story with
major implications for ourentire industry.
For the first time ever, E-15fuel is poised to become legal
in the nation's largest state.
Following the unanimous passageof Assembly Bill 30, this
landmark decision could meanlower prices, cleaner air, and
stronger demand for corn andethanol.
Changes that reach deep in thegrain handling and processing
(00:24):
world.
In this episode of the WholeGrain Podcast, you'll hear the
inside story from someone whohelped make it happen.
Geoff Cooper, President and CEOof the Renewable Fuels
Association, joins me to sharehow years of persistence in
coalition building and strategypaid off.
And one of these breakthroughmeasures for consumers,
retailers, policymakers, grainhandlers, grain processors,
(00:46):
vendors and suppliers, and ofcourse, producers and farmers.
From the behind-the-scenes effort in Sacramento to the ripple effects across the Midwest and beyond, this conversation explores how a single bill could reshape the renewable fuels landscape for decades to come.
Stay tuned.
The Whole Grain show bringsgrain professionals like you
(01:18):
together from 94 countries fromaround the world.
My name is Jim Lens, your hostand director of global education
and training at Jeeps, wherethe mission of the Grain
Elevator and Processing Societyis to champion, connect, and
serve the global grain industryand our members.
Today we're turning ourattention to one of the biggest
renewable fuel developments inrecent memory, California's AB30
(01:39):
and what it means for ethanol,grain, and the future of energy.
Geoff Cooper is here to walk usthrough how it happened, why it
matters, and what's next.
And just like recent episodes,we'll wrap up with reflection
questions you can use with yourteam to turn today's insights
into action.
All that and more coming upnext.
We are connecting with GeoffCooper.
(02:23):
Welcome and thank you forserving as guests in the Whole
Grain Podcast, Geoff.
Well, thanks for having me,Jim.
Now, our listeners work in thegrain handling and processing
industry.
In case they may be unfamiliarwith RFA, could you share the
work of the Renewable FuelsAssociation and who you
represent?
Geoff Cooper (02:38):
Yeah, so the Renewable Fuels Association is
the nation's oldest and mostauthoritative trade association
for America's ethanol producersand frankly the larger ethanol
industry.
RFA was originally founded in1981, so we've been around as
long as the ethanol industryitself has been in existence
here in the United States, morethan 40 years.
(03:00):
Our members are primarilyethanol producers, and they
really come in all shapes andsizes.
We have big agribusinesscompanies, we have farmer-owned
co-ops and LLCs, we have bigproducers, small producers.
You know, most of our memberproducers are using corn as a
feedstock, but we've also gotfacilities that use a fair
(03:22):
amount of grain sorghum.
And then we have even verysmall companies that are using
waste products as feedstock tomake ethanol.
So food and beverage processingwaste and other waste streams
are being converted intoethanol, and we represent those
folks as well.
We also have associate members,and those are companies that
are vendors to the industry,their suppliers, their farm
(03:45):
groups, their marketers, theirshippers.
We have rail companies that arepart of the RFA, for example.
So a very broad and diversemembership.
But our focus, of course, isadvancing policies that help
expand the market for ethanoland drive demand and drive
growth in the industry, reallyacross all facets of the
(04:07):
marketplace.
We also have some members thatare looking at new uses and
applications of ethanol.
We talk about sustainableaviation fuel and chemical uses
and potentially maritime fuel.
So we have some of thosecompanies involved in our
membership as well.
Jim Lenz (04:21):
Certainly an exciting time, and uh, we're gonna talk
about how exciting really thisis with new developments that
you, your organization andothers have done here as a main
topic.
But I do want to point out thatI think this is the the case,
and please confirm that the thegrain processing industry not
only supports high employment ofmilitary veterans, but they are
(04:42):
one of the leaders in thecomposition of military veterans
as far as industries go.
Is that correct?
Geoff Cooper (04:48):
That's exactly right.
And in fact, the Department ofEnergy produces a report every
year, sort of a survey acrossdifferent energy sectors.
And what they have consistentlyfound in the last several years
is that the ethanol industryspecifically employs a larger
share of veterans than any othersegment of the energy industry.
Uh, something around 16% of ourworkforce are veterans of the
(05:12):
armed forces.
And that's particularlygratifying to me because I
myself am a veteran.
I spent some time in the U.S.
Army where my focus was onpetroleum product logistics and
distribution.
So my unit's mission was tomove fuel to wherever it was
needed on the battlefield.
We were refueling everythingfrom tanks and helicopters to
(05:35):
generators and Humvees.
So it is, I think, sort of fullcircle for me to be working and
helping to lead an industrythat has such a connection and
commitment to our veterans.
I think a lot of veterans finda home in this industry because
the goals and the values and themission align very well with
(05:56):
what they were doing in themilitary.
And those skill sets that theylearned in the military also
transfer very well into theethanol and ag industries.
You know, after I left theArmy, I spent five years at the
National Corn GrowersAssociation working on ethanol
market development and policyissues, and then came to RFA in
(06:18):
2008.
So I've been here about 17years in various capacities and
serving as the CEO for the lastsix or seven years.
Jim Lenz (06:27):
Fantastic.
Great background on theorganization, who your members
are, who you support, andactually you provide even more
than I expected there for themilitary.
And I like how you shared thatthere's alignment.
So anybody out there listeningwho is a military veteran or who
knows someone, get in contactwith RFA.
How does that sound?
Geoff Cooper (06:47):
Absolutely.
And we actually have a veteransfor renewable fuels group that
we support.
It's it's very active, it's agreat network for veterans
working in the industry and andeven veterans just interested in
what we're doing in thisindustry to get together and
talk.
Jim Lenz (07:01):
Fantastic.
That's a wonderful thing youdo.
In fact, uh I don't think youmentioned this, but you actually
were an officer in the Army.
Is that correct?
Geoff Cooper (07:08):
I was.
I ended up achieving the rankof captain before I got out.
So again, wonderful experiencein the Army.
I I learned so much, not justabout the fuel business and
moving fuel and the logisticsinvolved in doing that, but just
so many other skills that haveserved me well in this role and
serve me well in life.
Jim Lenz (07:27):
Fantastic.
Your colleague, Robert White,he was a guest in the whole
grain podcast before.
He has that background as well.
I encourage listeners to, afterthey listen to this episode, uh
make sure you do that.
And if you're a member ofJeeps, you have access to the
video library.
And he spoke at the JeepsExchange, a big annual event for
the green industry there.
And uh you can uh listen andwatch him do his one of his
(07:50):
presentations.
So great to have connectionshere.
I know John Calpert, our CEO ofJeeps, has been a big uh
proponent of making goodconnections here, and we're all
aligned, both organizations arealigned, so it's fantastic.
Absolutely.
So now let's set the scene.
California state passes AB 30,39 to 0, now just one step from
(08:11):
becoming law.
Tell us about that.
Why is it historic for ourlisteners?
Geoff Cooper (08:15):
Well, it's a huge story, and you're absolutely
right.
Uh Assembly Bill 30 passed outof the Senate on September 3rd.
That was the final step in thelegislative process.
And what makes it even morefascinating is it passed
unanimously, 39 to zero, as youmentioned, out of the Senate.
Uh, but every vote on this billwas unanimous, coming out of
(08:37):
the assembly on a unanimousvote, coming out of the
committees where review of thislegislation first started.
Those were all unanimous votes.
So we've never seen in thehistory of the ethanol industry
an ethanol-friendly bill makeits way through the California
legislature, period, let alonecome through that process with
(08:58):
unanimous support on everysingle vote.
It really is a big deal.
And I think it it really speaksto the fact that California
policymakers are recognizing thetremendous opportunity and the
potential here with expandingethanol use in that state to
help lower costs for theirconsumers, help further clean up
(09:20):
the air, help extend fuelsupplies.
There's just so many benefits,and I know we're going to talk
about some of that, but this isa monumental achievement.
It was something a lot of folksa year ago, two years ago, when
we started down this road,thought was not possible.
And we just kept pushing ahead.
And here we are today, just onestep away from this bill
becoming law.
(09:40):
We're just waiting on thegovernor's signature at this
point.
Jim Lenz (09:43):
That's fantastic.
So 39 to 0 is a vote.
Why is it significant that thisbill passed unanimously in both
chambers?
Geoff Cooper (09:51):
Well, again, I think it really speaks to the
fact that legislators in thestate of California are
recognizing they have a problem.
Petroleum refineries areleaving the state or announcing
their plans to leave the state.
There are still millions, tensof millions of vehicles on the
road in California that run onliquid fuels.
And certainly their policypriorities have been around, you
(10:13):
know, a transition to electricvehicles.
But the bottom line isconsumers are saying, look, I
can't afford an electricvehicle.
I don't want an electricvehicle.
I like my 2005 Chevy SilverAuto or, you know, whatever
they're driving, and they needfuels and they need access to
affordable fuels to continuepowering those vehicles.
And I think there's a goodrecognition of that in the
(10:35):
legislature.
I think there's a growingrecognition of that in Governor
Newsom's office.
And so that's why this is sucha historic moment is they're
they're seeing E-15 as a way tohelp address those concerns that
they're hearing from voters inthe state.
Jim Lenz (10:49):
Fantastic.
Walk us through what happensnext with Governor Newsome's
desk.
What are the odds of signature?
Geoff Cooper (10:55):
Well, and first I should say what the bill does.
And the bill uh immediatelylegalizes E-15 in the state of
California.
The legislature basically said,look, we're tired of waiting on
the regulatory agencies to dothis.
We're going to take the bull bythe horns here.
They saw an opportunity to getlower-cost fuels into the
marketplace and they took it.
And so the next step followingpassage of this bill out of the
(11:18):
Senate is for the governor tosign it.
It's sitting on his deskawaiting signature.
He has 30 days from the datewhen he received the bill.
We do expect that he will signthe bill into law.
He's expressed support for E-15in the past.
He's called on those regulatoryagencies to expedite their
process.
So that's it.
I mean, we're just waitinganxiously for Governor Newsom to
(11:42):
put pen to paper and sign thatbill into law, which would
immediately authorize E-15 as alegal fuel in that state.
Jim Lenz (11:49):
The urgency clause, how quickly could Californians
see E-15 at the pump?
Geoff Cooper (11:55):
Yeah, because the legislators who introduced this
bill had the foresight, they uhattached an urgency clause to
this legislation, which meansthat immediately upon the
governor's signature, E-15becomes a legal fuel and should
be available to the to themarketplace should retailers,
(12:16):
should gas stations choose tooffer the fuel.
Now, there's a couple of thingsthat we think the Air Resources
Board, the regulatory agency incharge, needs to do to provide
some guidance and some clarityon how gas stations can offer
this fuel, but that can happenin relatively short order, in
our view.
And we're hopeful that by theend of the year, we could see
(12:37):
some stations offering this fuelto consumers at a lower cost.
There's not a lot thatretailers need to do to switch
from E-10 to E-15.
Their equipment in most casesis fully compatible.
It's ready for the transition,it's suitable for E-15.
They might have to make a fewtweaks here and there, but this
(12:58):
should be a relatively seamlesstransition for those gas
stations who choose to offer thefuel.
And again, we think lots ofthem will choose to offer E-15
because of its lower price,because of its cost
competitiveness, and because ofits environmental benefits.
And we know that California isa state where drivers and
consumers put a big premium onenvironmental performance and
(13:22):
benefits.
So we think we're close.
We believe we are on theprecipice of actually seeing
this fuel in the in theCalifornia marketplace after
years of trying to get it there.
Jim Lenz (13:33):
Wow.
Anxiously awaiting.
That's really positive news.
The E15, as you said, it'sgoing to be marketed as lower
costs.
It is.
I see that at the fuel pump.
It's amazing.
I think I've seen, you know,from a personal perspective, I'm
in Wisconsin, state ofWisconsin, and I think I have
seen it anywhere from like eightcents to possibly 65 cents
(13:55):
lower.
Is that yeah?
Geoff Cooper (13:57):
We do see a a wide range of discounts where E-15
is being offered today.
Typically, if you kind of takethe averages, we we often see
discounts in the range of 10 to30 cents per gallon.
That's that's what's fairlytypical across the Midwest where
E-15 is being offered today.
Sometimes you do see largerdiscounts than that.
(14:19):
You know, we have seen 50, 60cents.
We've seen some stationsoffering E-15 for 80 cents or
even a dollar a gallon less thanE10 at certain times.
So the economic benefits areclear, they're proven.
And again, we think theCalifornia uh marketplace and
policymakers have seen that withtheir own eyes.
(14:40):
They've they've recognized thatthey're that these are benefits
that they want to extend totheir consumers as well.
Jim Lenz (14:45):
Consumers, of course, looking for ways to save, reduce
expenses for household income.
Tell me if this is correct.
I thought I read $2.7 billionannual savings and $200 per
household.
Is where does that come from?
Tell me more.
Is that uh Yeah?
Geoff Cooper (15:06):
So the University of California, Berkeley, did a
study in conjunction with aneconomist at the U.S.
Naval Academy looking at whatintroducing E-15 could mean
economically in the state ofCalifornia.
And those are the numbers theyfound.
They found across the statewideeconomy, if Californian uh gas
(15:26):
stations replace E-10 with E-15,that savings uh to the economy
could be on the order of $2.7billion.
Now, when you look at what thatmeans per household, yeah, it's
about $200 per Californiahousehold.
And when you look at what itmeans per gallon, their study
found an average savings ofaround 20 cents per gallon when
(15:46):
you look at E15 versus E10.
And again, that's veryconsistent with what we've seen
in other parts of the countrywhere E-15 is being offered
today.
And I, again, I want tounderscore this was not an RFA
research paper or study.
This was not the University ofNebraska, this was not Iowa
State University, this was theUniversity of California,
(16:09):
Berkeley, which, you know,doesn't really have uh a dog in
the hunt or an axe to grind whenit comes to ethanol and E-15
and some of these issues.
It was uh uh a truly objectivelook at what this could mean for
the state's economy, and theresults I think were
resoundingly positive and reallyconfirm what we've seen in
other parts of the country.
Jim Lenz (16:30):
That's important that you state that.
Yeah, independent mind uh notat all uh involved with this as
one of the players.
So we're talking aboutactually, you know what?
I think it might be good whenwe've been seeing E15, right?
And when you're at the pump asa consumer, I'm filling up my my
vehicle, it's 88, right?
Just so everybody knows.
Geoff Cooper (16:51):
Yeah, we we do see E-15 marketed in different ways
by different fuel retailers.
Uh, many of them have chosen tomarket E-15 as unleaded 88, uh,
with that 88 referring to theoctane value of E-15.
You know, in addition to alower price with E-15, you're
getting a slight octane boostbecause as you add more ethanol,
(17:13):
you're adding more octane.
And we know that octane isimportant for performance and
just efficiency in the engine.
So we do see it marketed as 88unleaded or 88 octane in many
places.
We see it, it has various namesand and sort of brands
depending on what what stationyou go to.
But anytime you see that 88octane button, chances are it's
(17:36):
it's going to be E15.
Jim Lenz (17:38):
Many other states offer that.
So let's say there's uh someonepull up to the gas station and
they fill up with E15 fuel, theyknow and feel good about the
decision because it means lowercost to them, less expenses.
But broadly speaking, outsideof that positive item, we can
also talk about smog andemissions, right?
What's the expectedenvironmental and health impact
(18:02):
for California communities?
Geoff Cooper (18:04):
Well, and and that's a really important point.
And certainly we have seenhistorically ethanol's ability,
and again, proven track record,to reduce smog and smog forming
emissions as part of thisprocess in California.
There was an exhaustive studydone where 20 vehicles were
tested on E-15 compared to E10.
(18:26):
They carefully looked at theemissions profile of each.
And what they found is E-15does reduce those emissions that
contribute to smog and groundlevel ozone formation.
And of course, that's been ahuge problem in certain parts of
California.
You look in the SouthernCalifornia, around LA and San
Diego, they have alwaysstruggled with smog in those
areas.
(18:46):
And what this study found, andthis was at University of
California Riverside, they foundreductions in particulate
matter emissions.
They found reductions in carbonmonoxide.
They even found a slightreduction in nitrogen oxide
emissions.
And overall, they found lowerozone forming potential from
(19:07):
E-15 than what you see with E10.
So there is absolutely an airquality benefit to adopting
E-15, and that's been veryimportant to California and part
of this whole discussion aswell.
We also know that California isvery focused on reducing
greenhouse gas emissions, CO2specifically coming out the
tailpipe of internal combustionengines.
(19:29):
And there's a benefit there aswell because E-15 is lower
emitting when it comes togreenhouse gas emissions, both
on the full life cycle picture,but also at the tailpipe.
And so we see a 2.5% or 3%incremental benefit from using
E-15 versus E10 when it comes tothose greenhouse gas emissions.
(19:50):
So there are clearenvironmental benefits, there
are clear economic benefits aswe've talked about.
And you're extending the fuelsupply, you're using a greater
volume of a domesticallyproduced product, and you're
helping farmers.
And that is important to a lotof folks.
And I know we'll get into thatas well.
Jim Lenz (20:07):
Yeah, so you definitely clearly stated the
benefits of E15.
Anything else to add whyeveryday drivers should care
about E15?
Geoff Cooper (20:15):
I think those are the big ones.
And just to break it down andbe very concise here, it's lower
cost at the pump.
It's a cleaner burning fuel,lower emissions, it's
domestically produced.
Those are three things that Ithink you ask any consumer.
Those are benefits, those arevalues that are going to
resonate with them.
Some consumers may place moreemphasis on one or the other.
(20:36):
We know that most consumers areprimarily driven by cost.
What does it mean for theirwallet?
What does it mean for theirpocketbook?
But again, particularly instates like California, there
are a lot of consumers that aremotivated by what does my use of
this product mean for theenvironment?
And they can feel good aboutchoosing E15, you know, compared
to some of the other fueloptions that are available.
Jim Lenz (20:58):
So we're on the brink of something huge, but it took a
lot of work.
So I want to talk about withyou the long road to success.
RFA started on this path backin 2018 with C ARB carb.
What were the biggestchallenges?
Geoff Cooper (21:12):
Well, yeah, and I think it's important for people
to understand that Californiahas its own process for
approving new fuels.
They don't follow the federalprocess like all the other
states do.
EPA at the federal level, theUS EPA, approved E-15 as a legal
fuel all the way back in 2011.
And so for the last 14 years,E-15 has been a legal fuel in 49
(21:37):
other states.
But California had its ownprocess, it always has, uh has
its own testing requirements, etcetera.
And so we've been trying towork with California during that
entire time to get them toadopt the federal standards for
E-15, or if they got to gothrough their own process, you
know, go through it.
(21:58):
But let's let's get it done.
When it comes to approving newfuels, they have what's called a
multimedia evaluation that isrequired.
And that means they have tolook at the environmental
impacts, the impacts on air,soil, and water of any new fuels
that may be introduced in themarketplace.
That requires, in in manycases, additional testing,
(22:20):
extensive research.
And that's what they've saidthey needed to do.
Well, that process finallystarted.
We were able to convince CARBto start that evaluation in
2018, but it was taking foreverfor them to get on with the
process.
And there's been fits andstarts and delays, and that's
really what led to thislegislation being drafted is
(22:42):
again, the California Assemblysaid, look, we can't we can't
afford to wait for theregulatory agencies to do what
they needed to do anymore.
We're going to take the bull bythe horns, we're going to take
this matter into our own hands,and we are going to pass
legislation that forces theissue.
So, yes, it's been a longprocess, it's been a slog.
We're not done with it yet, butwe can see the light at the end
(23:05):
of the tunnel finally.
After years and years of work,and frankly, millions of dollars
of investment in testing andresearch and studies and other
things that we've had to do toget to the point where we're at
today.
Jim Lenz (23:19):
So that's a good summary.
After six years of regulatorydelays, this is why you chose
the legislative path then,right?
Geoff Cooper (23:27):
That's right.
And again, I think we about 18months ago or two years ago
said, look, we we can keepspinning our wheels and hoping
that uh CARB, the regulatoryagency, you know, gets in gear
and moves forward with thisprocess.
But they were showing verylittle motivation, very little
interest in doing that.
And so we decided to try adifferent tack and talk to the
(23:50):
legislature about this and andhelp members of the assembly and
senate understand theopportunity that they were
missing because CARB wasdragging its feet on E-15.
And, you know, we weresuccessful in doing that and and
got the attention, got theinterest of key players in
legislature.
And we saw what happened thispast summer.
(24:11):
That bill essentially sailedthrough both chambers because
they got it.
And so now here we are, again,I think on the verge or on the
brink of finally having E-15 inthe marketplace because of the
vision and the leadership thatseveral members of the Assembly
showed to get this conversationstarted.
Jim Lenz (24:30):
Kind of what I want to talk about, too.
How important was a Californiaproblem solvers caucus and
leaders like Alvarez and Flora?
Geoff Cooper (24:38):
Well, I to put it simply, this would not have
happened without theirleadership.
Assemblymember Alvarez,Assemblymember Flora.
They immediately got it.
They immediately understood theopportunity.
Uh, this was a no-brainer forthem.
They they were they wereshocked that California hadn't
already moved on this.
They were frustrated that uhcarb has been dragging its feet
(25:00):
for so many years.
Both uh Alvarez and Flora arepart of the Problem Solvers
Caucus, which is a bipartisangroup of legislators in
California that, as the nameimplies, they want to solve
problems.
And they know that a majorproblem in that state today is
the high cost of fuel at thepump.
California has the highest gasprices in the country.
(25:23):
It's been that way for years.
They know it's going to getworse before it gets better as
refineries are closing down andmoving out of the state.
So as they looked at thatproblem, they said E-15 is a
solution.
It's not going to solve all theproblems, but it's a solution
and it and it should be an easyone.
It makes sense.
There's no reason not to dothis.
(25:44):
It's a win-win for you knowfuel prices, but also for the
environment, as we've discussed.
And so they really took thiscause up and ran with it.
We're incredibly effective inconvincing their colleagues in
the legislature that this was aworthy cause and that this is
something simple that thelegislature could do to help
consumers out, help everydayCalifornians get through the
(26:06):
month and and save some money atthe end of the day.
So we're very grateful to theirleadership and their support
and them taking the time tounderstand these issues and and
their advocacy.
So it really was a tremendouslyeffective partnership that we
had with the problem solverscaucus.
And again, without their work,we we wouldn't be here.
Jim Lenz (26:28):
You and your organization are instrumental in
building coalitions, right?
This could not have happenedwith that.
And so just to give listenersunderstanding, you're talking
about coalitions bringingtogether retailers, farmers, and
producers, truckers, labor,chamber of commerce, and more.
How did that come together?
Geoff Cooper (26:48):
Well, again, we know the only way to succeed
when you're promoting andadvocating for legislation is to
have a big tent and bring asmany stakeholders into that tent
as possible and as manysupporters as possible.
Certain groups have betterrelationships with certain
lawmakers than we do, and andvice versa.
(27:08):
So the whole idea was let'sgrow this coalition of support
for E-15 as large as we can.
Let's talk to business groups,let's talk.
I mean, we had veterans groupsinvolved, we had, as you said,
truckers, retailers, seniorgroups, retirees.
And again, it's it's not a hardsell, right?
If you can get five or 10minutes of their time and say,
(27:30):
here are the benefits from doingthis, here are the benefits
from E-15.
Why on earth is California not,you know, taking this
opportunity?
I mean, the light bulbimmediately goes on, and people
understand how this benefitstheir individual constituencies,
and they're happy to jump onboard and help the cause.
And so, yeah, I've been verypleased and pleasantly surprised
(27:53):
by the amount of support andthe diversity of support that we
were able to garner for thislegislation.
Jim Lenz (27:59):
I was in an ethanol plant in Iowa in the month of
August, and it is uh almostbreathtaking, beautiful, I have
to say, of the big amounds ofcoal products that are part of
the ethanol process industry,which many people know, and I
know there's some listeners thatdon't realize those coal
(28:21):
products.
Dr.
Kurt Rosentrader from IowaState University, he's been on
the show and he does a lot ofspeaking and is a professor
again at Iowa State University,does a lot of work in this space
and uh talks about coalproducts, used for cattle, used
for chickens, uh used emergingthings and fish production
operations and and so many more.
(28:42):
Uh I mean I think people needto realize that the grain
industry, if you look at allother industries, has got to be
one of the most efficientindustries on the planet.
Wouldn't you agree?
Geoff Cooper (28:59):
Absolutely.
And and you're you're you're100% correct.
The ethanol process today iszero waste.
We you put a bushel of corn inthe front end of an ethanol
plant, the starch portion ofthose corn kernels is fermented
into ethanol.
That's what becomes the fuel.
Everything else becomeslivestock feed.
(29:21):
The protein, the fat, thefiber, the other nutrients that
are in that corn kernel remainavailable to the livestock feed
supply chain.
And that is incrediblyimportant.
Distiller's grains have becomeone of the largest single
components of the feed industryhere in the United States.
(29:41):
And we're also exporting abouta third of the distiller's
grains that we produce becauselivestock and poultry feeders
around the world understand thebenefits of including this low
cost component in their feedrations.
And back to the conversation onCalifornia.
Guess what?
California has a lot ofchickens.
They have a lot of dairies.
They're all using distiller'sgrains.
(30:04):
And that's why, you know, whenwe went and talked to the
California Farm Bureau and otherfarm groups in the state,
they're like, oh yeah, weabsolutely support this.
We love distiller's grains.
If there's more of that supplyavailable because we're using
more fuel, more E15, moreethanol, yeah, that's that's a
win-win for us as well.
So it is an incrediblyimportant piece of the puzzle
(30:24):
that a lot of people, you know,outside of our industry don't
understand about the ethanolprocess.
And you're right, you go to anethanol plant and you see that
pile for the first time, and itreally hits you just how much
animal feed the ethanol industryis is producing and and what a
vital component of the feedmarket that is today.
Jim Lenz (30:45):
Yeah, I think lawmakers may not realize that.
I mean, that's a big piece.
That efficiency, those coolproducts, it's just uh ripple
effects.
In fact, let's do that.
Uh actually before we get tothe ripple effects, I just I
guess this is part of the rippleeffects industries, grain
industry for sure, and otherindustries, but there's always
going to be tough policyenvironments in just uh a few
(31:08):
sentences or just what do youthink?
What are lessons that youlearned or your organization
learned and and those youpartnered with that could be
applied to other tough policyenvironments?
Geoff Cooper (31:19):
Well, I I think through this California process,
one of the lessons learned, oror maybe one of the lessons
confirmed, I guess, would be abetter way of saying it for us,
is you've got to havecoalitions.
You you've got to have, you'vegot to bring along other
important constituencies, got tobring along other groups of
voters that other lawmakers careabout if you want to succeed.
(31:43):
And and we certainly have seenthat in California.
We talked about the coalitionwe were able to build there.
And that is something thatwe've got to do a better job of
translating and transferring toother policy battles that we're
fighting at the federal level inin other states.
We we've got to remember thatwhen we can go to a legislative
body with a broad and diversegroup of supporters, that ups
(32:06):
our chances of successexponentially.
You know, you may have alawmaker that that is very
focused on issues for seniorsand retirees, and that's really
what drives them.
If if you've got a grouprepresenting that constituency
that is with you, voicing itssupport for this legislation,
now now you've got anotherchampion.
Now you've got another friendin that legislative body.
(32:29):
So I think that's the biggesttakeaway is to truly succeed
with these legislativeapproaches, you've got to have
broad-based support.
Nobody can do this alone.
We certainly, as just theethanol industry, could have
never achieved this victorywithout working with all of
those other groups that we'vetalked about that were part of
(32:49):
that coalition.
Jim Lenz (32:50):
That's a great summary, confirmed lessons from
this big project and effort.
Now, let's look at rippleeffects beyond California.
California often sets trendsnationally.
How could this influencefederal year-round E-15
legislation?
Geoff Cooper (33:07):
Well, and that's another really unique uh piece
of the story in California, isbecause they have their own fuel
regulations and specificationsand you know air quality
regulations, they don't have thesame summertime barrier to
E-15.
So once this fuel is approvedfully, once it's in the
(33:28):
marketplace in California,they're not going to have that
same hurdle every summer thatmost of the other states in the
country have.
We think that is going to betremendously helpful in helping
to rapidly expand the use ofE-15 in the state of California.
And then I think, you know,other states can look at that
model and say, yeah, this iswhat can happen when you don't
(33:51):
have that summertime barrier.
And if you can sell E-15year-round, 365 days a year,
it's it's going to sell.
Consumers want it, they'regoing to buy it.
Things can expand rapidly if wejust clear away these barriers.
And so I think California isgoing to be a good test case to
really show that yes, thisvolatility, this vapor pressure
(34:13):
issue has been a seriousimpediment in the rest of the
country that has prevented morerapid adoption of E-15.
And if there are ways to clearthat away, which there are, then
things can really take off.
And I think that's going to be,you know, one of the signals
that is sent by Californiamoving to E-15.
Jim Lenz (34:32):
Signals.
Interesting.
With California on board, doesthis change the narrative in
Washington?
Geoff Cooper (34:38):
Uh I think it it does to some extent because it
also I think gets the attentionof some of those lawmakers in
Washington who, like California,the last 10 years, have
believed that the only way toclean up transportation fuels is
to get rid of them and move toelectric vehicles.
And let's eliminate theinternal combustion engine,
(35:00):
let's eliminate liquid fuels,and let's just rush headlong
into electric vehicles foreverybody.
But now you've got Californiasaying, uh, uh, we're taking a
step back from that approachbecause so far it isn't working
very well.
And we're looking at otheroptions to kind of ease that
transition or ease that glidepath.
And E-15 is one of those.
(35:21):
So I do think this is going tochange the conversation in
Washington, where we have hadsome, especially on the left
side of the aisle, who havethought, well, we're sort of,
you know, are we wasting ourtime with E-15?
It doesn't offer, you know,substantial environmental
benefits over E-10, uh, which ofcourse we would argue
otherwise, and maybe get themthinking about more incremental
(35:43):
approaches and wake them up tothe fact that yes, E-15
absolutely does providebenefits, both environmentally
but also in terms of thepocketbook for consumers who are
who are struggling right now.
So yeah, I I again I thinkthere's going to be lots of
positive lessons learned fromCalifornia's experience, and and
it'll be interesting to see howthat translates into federal
(36:04):
action.
Jim Lenz (36:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
You think this could be just ahuge uh leaning forward and
making this happen and it'sexciting.
Thank you for what you havedone for ethanol production and
changing a mindset.
There's an education that takesplace during all this.
I know you right now have teammembers.
I've seen it on LinkedIn, acouple of them who are doing
(36:28):
workshops in preparation forthis.
That's what I'm telling you.
Thank you for doing that.
You want to just give them somesome note of what you and team
are doing?
Geoff Cooper (36:37):
You're absolutely right.
It's all about education.
And again, the real key here isjust finding the time and
getting the time.
And sometimes it only takes 10minutes.
It only takes 15 minutes, butgetting someone's undivided
attention for that period oftime to explain to them and
provide the facts on what we'redoing in the ethanol industry,
(36:59):
why we're doing it, what theimpacts are, what the benefits
are.
Again, it's it's not a hardsell.
It's it's easy to get peoplebought in if you just have that
opportunity to explain some ofthese things and dispel some of
the myths that they've heardabout ethanol over the years,
right?
It's it's not hard to uhdevelop new champions and new
(37:19):
advocates if you can just gettheir undivided attention.
So we are doing that inCalifornia today in conjunction
with all the legislativeactivity.
We're also hosting andsponsoring a series of workshops
for gas station owners, forfuel marketers, for companies
that supply dispensers and tanksand other equipment to that
(37:41):
sector to get them up to speedon E-15.
Again, the fuel hasn't beenavailable, it hasn't been legal
in the state.
And so a lot of them don't haveany idea what E-15 is even is.
And so we're kind of startingat square one, just doing the
basic education on here's whatE-15 is, here's what would be
required for you to offer it,and here are the benefits.
(38:02):
And so we are covering thestate with those workshops.
We've already had several thathave been completed, have I
think another eight or tenscheduled over the next month or
so.
And again, the the idea, thegoal of those workshops is just
to get the fuel supply chain inthat state familiarized with
E-15, up to speed on what'shappened with the legislation,
and most importantly, get themto understand the benefits of
(38:25):
offering this fuel to theircustomers.
Jim Lenz (38:27):
I love strategy, but the execution of the strategy is
most important.
So when I saw that they weredoing workshops, that just all
makes sense.
And you said press by the endof this year that could happen.
It doesn't happen if you don'tprepare and educate.
So after this, very good news,did so much work to that.
But no, you are not stopping.
You're executing on this allthe way to what's the primary
(38:50):
goal is.
Fantastic.
What does this mean for Midwestethanol producers and the grain
professionals who supply them?
Geoff Cooper (38:58):
Yeah, yeah, that and that's that's a great
question and and an importantquestion.
And when we look at California,it is one of the single largest
consumers of of gasoline in inthe country.
They're typically number one ornumber two in terms of how much
gasoline they consume.
And again, we all know they'vebeen moving toward
(39:19):
electrification and EVs andtrying to reduce liquid fuel
consumption.
But the the fact of the matteris they're the most populous
state in the country.
And so they they have the mostvehicles in the country and they
still use a lot of gasoline.
Last year they used about 14billion gallons of gasoline.
Almost all of that contained10% ethanol.
So it's one of our largestethanol markets.
(39:41):
1.4 billion gallons of ethanolwe've been consuming in the
state of California.
If that is all replaced by E15,and that's not going to happen
overnight, but when thateventually happens, now you're
growing the market for ethanolin the state by another 600, 700
million gallons, right?
And so you asked what thatmeans for Midwest ethanol
(40:02):
producers.
Well, yeah, now you've got newdemand, a new source of demand
for six or seven hundred milliongallons of product.
That's the output from six orseven average sized ethanol
plants, right?
And then you look at the rippleimpacts.
Well, what does that mean forthe corn grower?
What does that mean for thegrain handler?
Well, you know, to make six orseven hundred million gallons of
(40:24):
ethanol, we need 200 or 250million bushels of corn.
And that's got to come fromsomewhere.
So it's a demand boost for thefarmer, it's increased
throughput for the grainhandler, more rail cars, more
trucks, more storage, moreelevation.
It's so it really does rippleacross the entire sector and
create new demand opportunitiesand new value opportunities.
(40:46):
And that's really, really whatwe're after.
Jim Lenz (40:49):
Huge ripple effect.
Grain in the United States istransported around the world.
So I can't not think further.
I would love your thoughts onthis.
Could this open doorsinternationally as well?
Geoff Cooper (41:09):
Well, it it can, and and we think it already is.
We think there are countriesaround the world that, of
course, are watching what we dovery closely in the ethanol
industry here in the U.S.
We are the world's leader interms of ethanol production and
also the volume of ethanolconsumed.
When they see states likeCalifornia moving to higher
(41:31):
blends, you know, 15% ethanol,that that again is a signal that
is being sent around the worldto countries like Japan and
Vietnam and Indonesia and youknow, countries in Europe that
look, the U.S.
is continuing to increase itsuse of this low-carbon, lower
cost fuel.
They're seeing the benefits.
(41:52):
We need to see those benefitsas well.
And frankly, we're seeingcountries like India, who 10
years ago blended almost noethanol whatsoever.
And they are quickly on atrajectory to be blending E20
nationwide, 20% ethanolnationwide.
And a lot of what's drivingthat is looking at the
experience in other countries,what we've done here in the
(42:14):
U.S., what the Brazilians havedone with their ethanol
industry.
So, yes, every time we see astate taking action like
California is taking, it's notjust important for California,
it's not just important forWashington, D.C.
People around the world arepaying attention.
And again, that's a signal thatthat could be, we think will be
overall positive for the U.S.
Jim Lenz (42:35):
ethanol industry.
Fantastic.
Okay, real briefly, the roadahead.
Next steps, Jeff.
What's still needed from carband regulators, even if A B 30
is signed?
Geoff Cooper (42:46):
Yeah, so again, we believe A B 30 will be signed
into law by Governor Newsomesometime soon.
And at that point, the the fuelis a legal fuel in the state.
Uh, but you're going to havegas stations, you're going to
have suppliers saying, okay,well, now that it's legal, how
do we actually, you know, offerthis fuel?
And so we do believe there aregoing to be some things that
(43:07):
CARB, uh the regulator incharge, needs to do to lay out
uh some interim guidance, sometemporary guidance to those
companies that want to offerthis fuel that explains how to
do it in a way that is compliantwith their regulations.
We think that can be easilydone.
We don't think it should take alot of time.
(43:27):
We saw just yesterday that Carbhas already scheduled a
workshop on October 14th tobegin this conversation, which
is great news.
But, you know, we don't see areason to wait.
We need to get guidance out tothe fuel sector as soon as
possible so they know what theyneed to do to offer this fuel.
So those are the next steps.
And then, you know, longerterm, CARB is going to continue
(43:50):
doing its finishing up itsprocess, and they expect that
could take some time to create aformal fuel specification and
and and some of the other thingsrequired.
But in the interim, because ofthis legislation, it will be law
that E-15 is illegal fuel andthey need to take steps to make
sure that gas stations can offerit.
Jim Lenz (44:10):
Fantastic.
And you confirm that RFA issupporting retailers and
suppliers through workshops andeducation.
That's fantastic.
Well done.
What should stakeholders fromgrain handlers to fuel marketers
watch for in the coming months?
Geoff Cooper (44:24):
Well, uh, yeah, I think there's going to be a
couple of key milestones to lookout for.
And one of those, of course, isgoing to be the governor
signing the bill.
Again, we expect that to happensoon.
The the second one to watch foris some sort of interim or
temporary guidance from carb, aswe've discussed, that gives
retailers and and terminaloperators and others more
(44:45):
clarity on how to offer E-15.
And then I think the the thirdpiece to watch very closely is
the conclusion of CARB's formalrulemaking process.
And again, we don't think itshould take that long, but
they've said that could take upto a year or so.
But the bottom line is E-15should be available very soon in
the state, thanks to thislegislation, even while CARB is
(45:08):
finishing its formal regulatoryprocess.
Jim Lenz (45:11):
Awesome.
Awesome.
Now, a quick recap here AB 30,it's ways to deliver lower
prices.
You also shared cleaner air andexpanded markets.
But also, I think on behalf ofthe Jeeps organization, we thank
you and the RFA organizationfor what you're doing and
developing a coalition.
Yes, you are lowering pricesfor fuel.
Yes, you are providing cleanerair, and yes, you're providing
(45:34):
expanded markets, but alsoyou're supporting families from
those heavily needed producersand farmers all the way through
the supply chain, the grainhandling and processing
facilities.
You have all thosetransportation trucking and rail
and shipping, and it's justincredible what you've done to
support them.
And of course, all theretailers that support those
(45:55):
organizations.
Thank you for what you've done.
You've been a terrific guest.
You provided all theseincredible insights, and your
leadership has been just soincredible, not just for your
organization and who you serve,but just for the whole grain
industry in general.
So thank you so much.
Geoff Cooper (46:10):
Well, thanks for meeting with me and having the
conversation today, Jim.
I I I I really appreciate thework that you all do and Jeeps
does, and certainly appreciateyou putting a spotlight on the
importance of this developmentin California and what it means
for the entire economy andcertainly what it means for
agriculture and the folks thatour two organizations represent.
(46:30):
You you mentioned just theripple impacts that this can
have, and they are substantial.
So thank you again for shiningsome light on that.
Jim Lenz (46:37):
This is huge news.
Listeners, you just heard it.
This is Geoff Cooper, CEO ofRFA, the Renewable Fuels
Association.
If you like this episode, and Iknow you will and do, I
encourage you to also listen toanother Jeeps Whole Grain
Podcast episode by hiscolleague, Robert White.
It provides a really goodfoundation overview and the
(46:59):
impact of ethanol production inour world.
So I encourage you to do that.
Thank you, Jeff, so much forserving as guests in the Whole
Grain Podcast.
Thanks again for having me.
That wraps up today's episodeof the GEAPS Whole Grain
Podcast.
A big thank you to GeoffCooper, president and CEO of the
Renewable Fuels Association,for joining us and for sharing
the story behind this historicmilestone into renewable fuels.
(47:21):
As we've heard today,California's decision to open
the door to E-15 isn't just apolicy win, it's a pivotal
moment that could reshape fuelmarkets, strengthen demand for
grain, and accelerate ourindustry's role in building a
cleaner, more sustainablefuture?
I'd like to leave you with afew questions to reflect on and
perhaps discuss with your team.
How might the legalization ofE-15 in California affect demand
(47:45):
for grain and ethanol in yourregion?
What lessons can our industrylearn from the coalition
building and persistence thatmade AB30 possible?
How could federal year-roundE-15 policy change the future of
grain handling and processing?
And finally, what steps canyour facility take today to
prepare for the opportunitiesthis shift will bring?
(48:08):
Remember, GEAPS Grain Elevatorand Processing Society offers
resources to help you grow andstay ahead, including over 25
online and on-demand courses,hands-on training offerings, a
searchable library of over 200industry videos, interactive
webinars, our next gen pathprogram for interns and those
early in their careers, aglobally recognized
(48:29):
credentialing program foremerging leaders and veterans of
the industry, digital grainglossary, local chapters for
networking and maintenance dayprograms, and so much more.
And of course, don't miss GEAPSExchange, the industry's
premier event.
Visit GEAPS.com.
That's G-E-A-P-S dot com toexplore more ways to learn,
grow, and connect.
(48:50):
I'm Jim Lenz, Director ofGlobal Education and Training at
GEAPS.
Thanks for listening, and untilnext time, keep feeding,
fueling, and clothing the world.
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