September 12, 2025 • 26 mins
What does 50 years in the grain industry teach you about smarter equipment decisions? Today’s guest, Jeff Schwab, knows the answer firsthand.
Jeff began his career at just 15 years old, working night shifts at a local mill while finishing high school. After completing a Vo-Tech program in drafting and design, he spent decades shaping the grain industry—first as a draftsman, then in sales, troubleshooting, and ultimately as a trainer and Product Specialist for GSI/Intersystems. With more than 20 years at Schlagel and another 16 at GSI, Jeff built a reputation as a trusted expert and mentor.
In this episode, Jeff shares:
- How to avoid overspending, underspending, or overbuilding projects
- Why a modern maintenance mindset is critical for reliability and safety
- Common mistakes with bucket elevators, dual drives, and high horsepower systems
- Memorable field stories where smart choices—and costly mistakes—shaped outcomes
- His advice for young professionals entering the industry today
Jeff also reflects on his time teaching at GEAPS/K-State Hands-On Training (HOT) for the Operation and Maintenance of Conveying Equipment program at K-State and why knowledge-sharing is the lifeblood of this industry.
Whether you’re managing a facility, making equipment investments, or just starting your grain career, this conversation is packed with practical insights you can take back to your team.
Reflection Questions for Discussion
Use these prompts to guide personal reflection or spark a team conversation after listening:
- Where has your facility overspent or underspent on equipment in the past?
- Have you seen a project that was overbuilt or underbuilt? What was the impact?
- What kind of maintenance mindset does your team rely on—preventive, reactive, or somewhere in between?
- How does your workplace encourage knowledge-sharing between experienced employees and newer professionals?
Grain Elevator and Processing Society champions, connects and serves the global grain industry and its members. Be sure to visit GEAPS’ website to learn how you can grow your network, support your personal professional development, and advance your career. Thank you for listening to another episode of GEAPS’ Whole Grain podcast.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jim Lenz, Host (00:04):
50 years that's how long today's guest has been
solving problems, teaching hardlessons and helping grain
facilities avoid costly mistakes.
From bucket elevators and dualdrives to the right way to size
a project, Jeff Schwab has seenit all In this episode of the
Whole Grain Podcast.
You'll discover the goldenrules for investing in equipment
, the hidden traps that drainbudgets and the modern
maintenance mindset that keepsoperations running strong.
The Whole Grain podcast.
You'll discover the goldenrules for investing in equipment
(00:25):
, the hidden traps that drainbudgets and the modern
maintenance mindset that keepsoperations running strong.
Whether you're new to theindustry or a seasoned pro,
Jeff's wisdom will make youthink twice before your next big
equipment decision.
Let's get started.
Hello and welcome to the show.
Welcome, welcome to the WholeGrain Podcast.
(00:45):
We use this podcast platform toexplore the people, innovations
and trends shaping the grainhandling and processing industry
.
The Whole Grain Show bringsgrain professional listeners
together from 94 countries fromaround the world.
My name is Jim Lenz, your hostof the show and the Director of
Global Education and Training atGEAPS.
We're the mission of the GrainElevator and Processing.
Society is to champion, connectand serve the global grain
(01:07):
industry and our members AtGEAPS.
We work to be the globalcommunity and thought leader for
the grain industry, which feedsand fuels the world.
Today we're turning ourattention to right-sizing,
reliability and return oninvestment smarter equipment
choices for grain facilities.
Today's guest knows the grainindustry from the ground up.
Literally At just 15 years old,Jeff Schwab was pulling night
(01:30):
shifts at his local mill whilefinishing high school.
After completing a vo-techprogram in drafting and design,
he went on to a 50-year careerthat spanned drafting, sales,
training and fieldtroubleshooting.
Jeff spent more than twodecades at Schlagel and another
16 years at GSI InterSystems,retiring as a product specialist
for material handling equipment.
(01:50):
Along the way, he's taught atservice schools, mentored at
Jeep's hands-on training programat Kansas State University and
built a reputation for turninghard-earned experience into
practical wisdom.
In this episode, jeff sharesthe golden rules for investing
in equipment, avoiding costlymistakes and adopting a
maintenance mindset that keepsfacilities reliable.
(02:12):
Whether you're new to the grainindustry or seasoned pro,
you'll walk away with insightsyou can use right away.
And finally, we want to turnthis episode into an action item
.
I'll share five reflectionquestions at the conclusion of
this episode.
I encourage you to use thesequestions as a springboard for
conversation and growth for youand your team.
All that and more coming upnext.
(02:43):
Jeff Schwab, it is exciting tohave you on this show.
You have been involved with theJEEP program, the hands-on
training for the operation andmaintenance of conveying
equipment.
You've been a veteran.
I can't believe this, jeff.
It says 50 years in the grainindustry.
It's so exciting to have you onthe show.
Thank you for being a guest onthe Whole Grain Podcast.
Thanks, jim.
Very happy to be here Now.
(03:04):
Jeff.
I've got to ask you've seenthis industry from just about
every angle what first inspiredyou to stay in the green
industry so long?
Jeff Schwab (03:17):
Honestly, inertia.
I guess If you'd told me at 15years old that I was going to be
in this industry for the next50 years, I'm sure I'd have run
screaming in the oppositedirection.
Didn't really dawn on me,honestly, until years later that
I'd somehow managed to stumbleonto my dream job, and this is
what I was really born to do.
Jim Lenz, Host (03:31):
So thankfully it worked out.
Oh, that is so great to hear.
Today we're talking about rightsizing and reliability and ROI
smarter equipment choices forgrain facilities.
Let's start really big pictureand then get a narrowing of our
focus.
Why are equipment decisions socritical for grain facilities
today?
Jeff Schwab (03:50):
Two reasons that I can think of as things have
changed over time, and one ofthose is that equipment is just
so big now.
I remember in my early dayswhen I sold my first 20,000
bushel an hour bucket elevator,thinking this is ridiculous.
Nobody needs that much capacity.
And things are just so muchlarger now and so pricey that
(04:13):
one little small decision canmake a lot of dollars difference
.
And everything changes so fast,just like your cell phone as
soon as you get one.
It's almost out of date thatthe right technology changes.
So those things make decisionsmuch more important in today's
market.
Jim Lenz, Host (04:29):
From your perspective, where do facilities
most often overspend ormisallocate their funds?
Jeff Schwab (04:36):
Because of things involved with what we just
discussed, especially thetechnology end of it, people end
up getting things that theydon't really need, spending a
lot of money on stuff thatthey're never going to use, and
that's part of why I try topreach educating yourself about
what you're getting into andasking questions.
(04:58):
Communicate with people.
The information is out there.
You just got to find it andspend your money wisely Makes
sense.
Jim Lenz, Host (05:05):
What kind of mindset should managers bring
when they're evaluating upgradesor new investments?
Jeff Schwab (05:14):
You need to have an open mind when you get into
something like that.
You need to start early becauseyou're going to have to invest
some time.
But I wish I had a nickel forall the conversations I've had
on job sites from elevator folkswho decided later I wish I'd
had this feature and whenexplained that it could have
been available at a worthy price, well, we should have had that
(05:35):
discussion before rather thanafter.
Right, so plan some time aheadof time.
Do some research, look at whatyou're buying, talk to the
suppliers, your contractors,talk to them about the options
that you want and make sure thatyou put your money in the right
place.
Jim Lenz, Host (05:48):
Let's get specific.
One area you've mentioned inour earlier conversations is
liner material for conveyors.
What are the main options andhow should facilities decide
what's best for them?
Jeff Schwab (06:10):
There's a plethora of liner materials that are
available and the type ofconveyor would dictate, probably
, what liners you use.
We could be talking about dragconveyors, belt conveyors.
There's lots of conveyor typesavailable and liners are used
everywhere.
But it comes down to making achoice about the job that you're
going to do and how long youneed it to last, about the job
that you're going to do and howlong you need it to last, and
the type of liner you would useis dictated by cost, about
(06:31):
wearability, where it's going,how you're going to mount it.
There are so many thingsinvolved that you can't pick the
right material for everyapplication.
If it was a drag conveyor, thoseliners are almost always AR
steel.
It's about the only thing thatworks.
There are different grades.
The harder they are, the harderthe steel, the longer the liner
(06:52):
is going to last.
It's also more expensive andharder to work with.
If you were working, say, withdownspouting square spouts, you
could have a urethane liner,maybe some ceramic tile liners.
Again, the longer the linerlasts generally, the more
expensive it's going to be.
In how it's installed, the typeof product it's installed on,
whether it's a firm foundation,whether it's a light sheet metal
(07:17):
, that will also control whatkind of liners you can put in
there.
Jim Lenz, Host (07:21):
Another point you raise is right-sizing
projects.
What happens when a facilityoverbuilds or underbuilds?
Jeff Schwab (07:31):
The classic example that I can think of where
everyone in the neighborhoodknows if you've underbuilt your
receiving station, is when thetrucks are all lined up on the
highway at harvest time, right?
So that's an obvious situation.
But maybe you limited thatbecause that fits your business
flow and that's all you want tohandle.
So just because it isn't rightfor one guy doesn't mean it
(07:54):
isn't right for you.
So again, looking at the visionthat you have in mind for your
business, communicating thatwith your suppliers, making sure
that everybody's on board withwhat you want, that's what
really counts.
Jim Lenz, Host (08:07):
And when you overbill.
Jeff Schwab (08:09):
You're out of money Happens to me all the time.
Jim Lenz, Host (08:13):
Bucket elevators are always a hot topic.
Let's start the debate arounddual drives.
What should people know?
Jeff Schwab (08:19):
That dual drives are a very viable option.
This comes into play when abucket elevator drive is sized
over what's economically been agood choice for a single drive
on a leg.
You get those normally up toabout 150 or 200 horsepower.
(08:41):
You can get a single shaftmount drive which is by far the
most economical choice for yourbucket elevator.
But above that horsepower youhave to look at a different type
of gearbox or you can look attwo drives.
A typical example, say a 40,000bushel bucket elevator that's
175 feet high.
You need 300 horsepower.
(09:02):
So you can't really get that ina single shaft mount.
You can either use 250 horseshaft mounts or you need a big
single, 300 horse drive.
So you need to communicate withyour electrical suppliers, with
your mechanical contractor,making sure how the tower is
going to fit the drive mountingand having all those
(09:24):
conversations back and forth tomake sure what's going to work
for you.
But the point is some peopledon't understand the concept of
the dual drive.
Each dual or a single has itsown sets of pros and cons and
working out those things to seewhat works best in your system
is the point here.
But a dual drive is a veryviable option.
(09:45):
Many people have used themsuccessfully.
Jim Lenz, Host (09:47):
You mentioned horsepower, so high horsepower
drives are another area wheremistakes get made.
What risks should facilitiesavoid there?
Jeff Schwab (09:56):
High horsepower drive.
Issues in my have generallybeen about lacks of
communication with your localelectrical co-op or wherever you
get your power from.
If you have limits as to inrushcurrents, if you're going to
have a lot of high horsepowerequipment on your site, say
(10:17):
grain dryers, or if you're doingsome processing hammer mills,
that kind of thing, big legsthose high horsepower drives.
If you need big inrush current,your local electrical supplier
may have some problems with that.
Jim Lenz, Host (10:30):
I'm thinking some listeners right now may be
thinking about current limitingdevices and soft starts.
When do they make sense and inyour mind?
When do they make sense and in?
Jeff Schwab (10:42):
your mind.
How do they help operations?
The place that I've seen thatcome into play most often is in
rural areas.
A common number that I've seenis any motors over 40 horsepower
.
In some smaller electricalco-op areas they may force you
to use a soft start or someother current limiting device so
(11:02):
it limits that inrush ofcurrent that you experience when
you start up a three-size motor.
The motor on your bucketelevator, for instance, is
capable of producing 250% of itsnormal torque on a short inrush
just to start up a new load.
But that's what the electricalco-op is trying to limit.
(11:23):
Is that voltage spike whensomebody starts something up.
So they want you to use whatwe'll call a soft start, which
is a device that limits thatinrush of current, and for most
pieces of equipment that's not abig deal.
They can start up slowly.
But one example where thatabsolutely does not work is if
you have a bucket elevatorthat's equipped with a backstop,
(11:45):
and if you don't know what thatis, a backstop is an
anti-rotational device you putin your gearbox so it prevents
the elevator from rotatingbackwards.
So let's just say you're runningyour bucket elevator one day
during a thunderstorm and youget struck by lightning and the
power goes out.
The elevator is running fullwith grain and it's shut off.
Now the backstop is holding allthe grain in the buckets and in
(12:08):
order to get that leg restartedyou have to have that 250% of
startup torque that the motor iscapable of.
But if you put a soft start onit, like the electrical utility
said, you can't get that inrushof current that you need to
start the leg.
So you had to make a choiceabout whether you had a backstop
or a soft start in your currentarea and if you weren't having
(12:33):
those conversations with boththe co-op and with your elevator
supplier and neither knows whatthe other is doing you could
end up with the wrongcombination of stuff.
And it's not that anyone theredid anything wrong, but you may
still end up with a package ofcomponents that doesn't work if
you weren't having all thosediscussions.
Jim Lenz, Host (12:52):
Ultimately, it's not just about one piece of
equipment.
How do all the pieces tietogether for safe, reliable
operation?
Jeff Schwab (13:00):
That's a great thing and a lot of people in the
Millerite construction area arevery happy that that's not an
easy thing to do.
That's a science and an art andI don't want to give away
anybody's secrets.
Of course, the reason reallyanswers to those questions, but
that's a very important part ofit for sure is getting them all
(13:20):
to work together.
Jim Lenz, Host (13:22):
You just provided some great insights on
bucket elevators and drives.
I want to shift a little bitmore to maintenance and
reliability.
Jeff, you often talk about amodern maintenance mindset.
What do you mean by that?
Jeff Schwab (13:35):
To me, that's a combination of research, of
experience, of your own records,based on what it does, keeping
in mind the new technologiesthat are available today, but
not being a slave to them anddoing everything that you're
told.
You still have to be intuitive,use your resources as best you
(13:56):
can.
I'd like to combine all ofthose things and do the thing
that you think works best, ifthere's a right plan for
everybody.
Jim Lenz, Host (14:03):
Good philosophy, for sure.
And how do smart investments upfront reduce downtime and risk
over the long run?
Jeff Schwab (14:19):
We're going to talk about some examples coming up
here where we've avoided doingsome things in some of these
other discussions, like the onesabout liners, A lot of the
components in your system.
Just doing that research upfront and making sure you invest
your money where you reallyneed it is a really important
part of the whole process.
Jim Lenz, Host (14:35):
Yeah, let's move to lessons from the field.
I would imagine, with years ofexperience, vast knowledge of
gained understanding of conceptsand relationships and all the
skills you have.
But you've been to a lot offacilities, had tons of
conversations.
This is, I think, a reallyimportant part to help our
listeners.
(14:55):
Jeff, you've spent so much timetroubleshooting really in the
field.
Can you share a memorableexample where a quality mistake
was avoided?
Jeff Schwab (15:05):
I'd love to.
I have a personal favoritethere.
I had a great opportunity someyears ago to visit a co-op that
was planning a very large newexpansion with some storage and
some grain handling equipment,and I was given an opportunity
to meet with the folks at theco-op and their contractor to
talk about the equipment thatthey wanted to buy and they had
(15:28):
specified in their list of chainconveyors that they
specifically wanted all of thepit conveyors to be oversized.
And I asked them about that andthey explained to me why they
wanted it.
And I explained to them thatthey were doing it for the wrong
reason and we got into kind ofa discussion we'll call it about
(15:50):
why that was so and I'd offeredto take them out to the local
elevator and prove to them thatthey were wrong and we promptly
did that.
What they were trying to do wasoversize the conveyor to make
sure it got adequate capacity,because they thought they were
eliminating a problem that theywere currently having, when the
size of the conveyor wasn't theproblem at all.
(16:12):
It was a constrictiondownstream that was caused by an
undersized transition and theywere about to spend a whole
bunch of money to fix a problemthat they would not have
addressed at all.
So just again, the wholecommunication part and asking
questions in this case was a bigdeal.
It saved us the chance to spendthat money where they could use
(16:36):
it better.
Jim Lenz, Host (16:37):
Oh, very nice, Very helpful for you and
actually digging in askingquestions, inquiring and then
working together.
Jeff Schwab (16:44):
It was a big win for everybody, that's for sure.
Jim Lenz, Host (16:47):
Any other lessons from the field, any
other examples you want to share?
There's so much investment inthese new projects.
Jeff Schwab (16:55):
Yes, I have another example of a co-op that was
doing an addition to add a trainloading system to their current
elevator and they'd beenworking with their local
electric co-op who'd given thema pretty firm number of
horsepower that they couldn'texceed.
That was all that was availablein the current electric grid
(17:19):
and they wanted to be able toload trains at 40,000 bushels an
hour.
But they had to have it so talland there just wasn't enough
horsepower to do what theywanted.
But the next, smaller set ofequipment at 35,000 wasn't
enough to get the trains on thetime they needed.
So through a lot of discussionwe ended up with kind of a weird
(17:39):
set of equipment that like38,000 bushel an hour or
something.
We had to make some new designsbut it worked in their
horsepower limit, in theirbudget.
It worked in everything else.
It wasn't a huge project forthe manufacturer but a little
bit of discussion turnedeverything into be exactly what
they wanted.
So it was a little out of thenorm.
(18:01):
But in communicating exactlywhat the limits were and giving
everybody input, we all gottogether and it worked out great
.
Jim Lenz, Host (18:09):
Oh, awesome, what a great story.
Let's shift from lessons fromthe field of teaching and advice
.
I can't believe you spent 50years in the green industry,
Jeff.
That doesn't seem possible.
You said you started at age 15.
I'm just real curious aboutthat.
Tell me more.
Jeff Schwab (18:24):
I was working night shift at the local mill, did
that for my last couple of yearsof high school and then two
years of vo-tech after that.
So I was a busy guy Very nice.
So on teaching and advice, Jeff,you've spent years teaching,
mentoring others, in the headsof people who are out there
(19:01):
which is why I am just such astrong believer in organizations
like Jeeps, where you can gettogether with other individuals
out there.
For people starting out in theindustry especially, there's
people out there that know whatyou need to know.
You just need to get theconnections and figure out ways
to get that out of them, andI've learned so much from some
(19:22):
of the old salts in the industryalong the way that I sure enjoy
the opportunity to pass onanything that's useful along my
way as well.
Jim Lenz, Host (19:32):
Fantastic, so knowledge sharing so critical in
the industry, isn't it?
Jeff Schwab (19:43):
critical in the industry, isn't it?
Absolutely yeah, there's justso few places and, as those who
move on take the informationwith them, it's sure nice to be
able to share it before we go.
Jim Lenz, Host (19:49):
And for the young professionals just
starting out, what's your bestadvice?
Jeff Schwab (19:54):
Don't be afraid to step in when you see an
opportunity that says I think Icould help here.
Ask questions of people.
Don't be afraid to be a pain.
Sometimes, like I did, probablyhave a few incidents where you
get accused of being a young kidthat doesn't know anything and
(20:15):
you know you should leave thisto somebody else.
But you got to start somewhere.
You have to learn.
Jim Lenz, Host (20:20):
It's not easy for anyone, so yeah, people in
the green industry generallyvery helpful people and most
people want to pass it on.
So your advice is to askquestions right and don't be
afraid to do that.
It's part of learning andgrowing, isn't it?
Jeff Schwab (20:34):
You never stop.
And if I, if I had one thingthat I would say the education
never stops, and one of thethings that I love most about
teaching is that it opens upconversations for others to
share, and I keep learning alongthe way, too, so that's a lot
of fun.
Jim Lenz, Host (20:53):
Yes, that's right.
In fact you've been one of theinstructors for the Chiefs,
kansas State University,hands-on training for the
operation maintenance ofconveying equipment.
It's at the IGP Institute, theInternational Gradients Program
at Kansas State, in one of ourrecent hot training episodes.
Jeff Schwab (21:10):
We had one of the attendees who came back for a
second round after he'd beenthrough it some years before,
and when he came back throughthe second time he reminded me
that one of the things that I'dtaught him the first time there
was a very successful piece ofinformation for him along the
way and he'd used it severaltimes since then very
(21:32):
successfully and it was one ofthe most rewarding experiences
that I'd had as a teacher,knowing firsthand that I had
helped this guy along the way.
That was awesome.
Jim Lenz, Host (21:41):
That is fantastic.
Thank you for pointing that out.
Yeah, I can imagine that is aspecial feeling For those who
are interested in registering orfinding out more information
about the Jeeps and K-Statehands-on training for the
Operation Maintenance ofConveying Equipment.
Just go to jeepscom,g-e-a-p-scom, go to the Events
and Meetings tab right in themiddle, scroll down and you can
(22:05):
go to Conveyor Training.
When you click on that, you canget more information about that
.
The hands-on training for theoperation and maintenance of
conveying equipment has adescription.
It's taking place December 9ththrough the 11th of the year
2025.
And then there's another one inspring and that's from May 5th
through the 7th as well.
Again, this is at the K-StateUniversity IGP Institute,
(22:26):
international Grains ProgramInstitute and that's in
Manhattan, kansas.
There's five on-site modules.
Each module is a half a day.
You're with a small group andevery half a day you move to a
different one.
There are five of them, sothat'll take you to two and a
half days.
Module one is on distributors.
Module two screw conveyors andbin sweeps.
(22:48):
Module three chain or drainconveyors.
Module four is bell conveyors.
Module five is bucket elevators.
There's a lunch, providedthere's snacks, provided there's
binders of resources that youcan take to use beyond that and
digital resources as well.
Just check that out on thewebsite.
Thank you so much for servingas instructor.
Jeff Schwab (23:07):
Jeff it's a pleasure, I really enjoy that.
Jim Lenz, Host (23:11):
I was there, I went through it.
One person asked a question.
That just creates greatgenerative dialogue and that's
part of the great thing aboutteaching, learning and mentoring
and doing hands on training oreven at your own facility.
So, jeff, as we wrap up here,it's been such a valuable
conversation.
If you could share one goldenrule for investing in grain
(23:33):
equipment just one thing you'dwant every listener to remember.
What would it be?
Jeff Schwab (23:39):
That there isn't one, and everything that we've
talked about education andlearning I guess that's probably
the golden rule is that no oneknows everything and you have to
keep learning and you just keepasking questions and doing the
right thing.
The process is the key goingthrough and doing all that, and
(24:00):
you will be successful with that.
It's the right thing.
The process is the key goingthrough and doing all that, and
you will be successful with that.
Jim Lenz, Host (24:03):
It's the right way to do things.
Fantastic, jeff.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
It's been a great pleasure.
I appreciate the opportunitythat wraps up today's episode of
the Cheap School Grain Podcast.
A big thank you to Jeff Schwabfor sharing his journey and 50
years of grain industry wisdomwith us today.
Your insights on right-sizingprojects, avoiding costly
mistakes and adopting a modernmaintenance mindset are lessons
(24:27):
every facility can benefit fromand to our listeners.
Take a moment to reflect onwhat you've heard.
I'd like to leave you with afew questions to reflect on and
even discuss with your teams.
Where might your facility haveoverspent or underspent on
recent equipment decisions?
Have you ever seen a projectthat was overbuilt or underbuilt
(24:47):
, and what impact did it have?
What kind of maintenancemindset does your team rely on
Preventative, reactive orsomething in between?
How does your workplaceencourage knowledge sharing?
And, most importantly, if youapply Jeff's golden rule for
investing in grain equipment,what decision would you revisit
first?
(25:07):
I encourage you to use thesequestions as a springboard for
conversation and growth with youand your team.
If you'd like a deeper dive, asa grain industry professional
GEAPS offers resources like thehands-on training program.
We have over 25 online andon-demand courses and a growing
library of podcast episodes andinteractive webinars.
A digital grain industryglossary, a video library
(25:30):
comprised of over 200 videossearchable by topic and keyword,
a program for those who are newto the industry and those who
are veteran we have thecredentialing program as well
and local GEAPS chapterinformation and activities, all
designed to help grainprofessionals learn, grow and
connect.
And don't forget about thebiggest and best event in the
(25:50):
grain industry GEAPS Exchange.
Be sure to visit geaps.
com to explore more.
That's G-E-A-P-S dot com.
My name is Jim Lenz, theDirector of Global Education and
Training at the Grain Elevatorand Processing Society.
Have yourself a great day andthanks for listening to Whole
Grain.
50 years that's how long today's guest has been
solving problems, teaching hardlessons and helping grain
facilities avoid costly mistakes.
From bucket elevators and dualdrives to the right way to size
a project, Jeff Schwab has seenit all In this episode of the
Whole Grain Podcast.
You'll discover the goldenrules for investing in equipment
, the hidden traps that drainbudgets and the modern
maintenance mindset that keepsoperations running strong.
The Whole Grain podcast.
You'll discover the goldenrules for investing in equipment
(00:25):
, the hidden traps that drainbudgets and the modern
maintenance mindset that keepsoperations running strong.
Whether you're new to theindustry or a seasoned pro,
Jeff's wisdom will make youthink twice before your next big
equipment decision.
Let's get started.
Hello and welcome to the show.
Welcome, welcome to the WholeGrain Podcast.
(00:45):
We use this podcast platform toexplore the people, innovations
and trends shaping the grainhandling and processing industry
.
The Whole Grain Show bringsgrain professional listeners
together from 94 countries fromaround the world.
My name is Jim Lenz, your hostof the show and the Director of
Global Education and Training atGEAPS.
We're the mission of the GrainElevator and Processing.
Society is to champion, connectand serve the global grain
(01:07):
industry and our members AtGEAPS.
We work to be the globalcommunity and thought leader for
the grain industry, which feedsand fuels the world.
Today we're turning ourattention to right-sizing,
reliability and return oninvestment smarter equipment
choices for grain facilities.
Today's guest knows the grainindustry from the ground up.
Literally At just 15 years old,Jeff Schwab was pulling night
(01:30):
shifts at his local mill whilefinishing high school.
After completing a vo-techprogram in drafting and design,
he went on to a 50-year careerthat spanned drafting, sales,
training and fieldtroubleshooting.
Jeff spent more than twodecades at Schlagel and another
16 years at GSI InterSystems,retiring as a product specialist
for material handling equipment.
(01:50):
Along the way, he's taught atservice schools, mentored at
Jeep's hands-on training programat Kansas State University and
built a reputation for turninghard-earned experience into
practical wisdom.
In this episode, jeff sharesthe golden rules for investing
in equipment, avoiding costlymistakes and adopting a
maintenance mindset that keepsfacilities reliable.
(02:12):
Whether you're new to the grainindustry or seasoned pro,
you'll walk away with insightsyou can use right away.
And finally, we want to turnthis episode into an action item
.
I'll share five reflectionquestions at the conclusion of
this episode.
I encourage you to use thesequestions as a springboard for
conversation and growth for youand your team.
All that and more coming upnext.
(02:43):
Jeff Schwab, it is exciting tohave you on this show.
You have been involved with theJEEP program, the hands-on
training for the operation andmaintenance of conveying
equipment.
You've been a veteran.
I can't believe this, jeff.
It says 50 years in the grainindustry.
It's so exciting to have you onthe show.
Thank you for being a guest onthe Whole Grain Podcast.
Thanks, jim.
Very happy to be here Now.
(03:04):
Jeff.
I've got to ask you've seenthis industry from just about
every angle what first inspiredyou to stay in the green
industry so long?
Jeff Schwab (03:17):
Honestly, inertia.
I guess If you'd told me at 15years old that I was going to be
in this industry for the next50 years, I'm sure I'd have run
screaming in the oppositedirection.
Didn't really dawn on me,honestly, until years later that
I'd somehow managed to stumbleonto my dream job, and this is
what I was really born to do.
Jim Lenz, Host (03:31):
So thankfully it worked out.
Oh, that is so great to hear.
Today we're talking about rightsizing and reliability and ROI
smarter equipment choices forgrain facilities.
Let's start really big pictureand then get a narrowing of our
focus.
Why are equipment decisions socritical for grain facilities
today?
Jeff Schwab (03:50):
Two reasons that I can think of as things have
changed over time, and one ofthose is that equipment is just
so big now.
I remember in my early dayswhen I sold my first 20,000
bushel an hour bucket elevator,thinking this is ridiculous.
Nobody needs that much capacity.
And things are just so muchlarger now and so pricey that
(04:13):
one little small decision canmake a lot of dollars difference
.
And everything changes so fast,just like your cell phone as
soon as you get one.
It's almost out of date thatthe right technology changes.
So those things make decisionsmuch more important in today's
market.
Jim Lenz, Host (04:29):
From your perspective, where do facilities
most often overspend ormisallocate their funds?
Jeff Schwab (04:36):
Because of things involved with what we just
discussed, especially thetechnology end of it, people end
up getting things that theydon't really need, spending a
lot of money on stuff thatthey're never going to use, and
that's part of why I try topreach educating yourself about
what you're getting into andasking questions.
(04:58):
Communicate with people.
The information is out there.
You just got to find it andspend your money wisely Makes
sense.
Jim Lenz, Host (05:05):
What kind of mindset should managers bring
when they're evaluating upgradesor new investments?
Jeff Schwab (05:14):
You need to have an open mind when you get into
something like that.
You need to start early becauseyou're going to have to invest
some time.
But I wish I had a nickel forall the conversations I've had
on job sites from elevator folkswho decided later I wish I'd
had this feature and whenexplained that it could have
been available at a worthy price, well, we should have had that
(05:35):
discussion before rather thanafter.
Right, so plan some time aheadof time.
Do some research, look at whatyou're buying, talk to the
suppliers, your contractors,talk to them about the options
that you want and make sure thatyou put your money in the right
place.
Jim Lenz, Host (05:48):
Let's get specific.
One area you've mentioned inour earlier conversations is
liner material for conveyors.
What are the main options andhow should facilities decide
what's best for them?
Jeff Schwab (06:10):
There's a plethora of liner materials that are
available and the type ofconveyor would dictate, probably
, what liners you use.
We could be talking about dragconveyors, belt conveyors.
There's lots of conveyor typesavailable and liners are used
everywhere.
But it comes down to making achoice about the job that you're
going to do and how long youneed it to last, about the job
that you're going to do and howlong you need it to last, and
the type of liner you would useis dictated by cost, about
(06:31):
wearability, where it's going,how you're going to mount it.
There are so many thingsinvolved that you can't pick the
right material for everyapplication.
If it was a drag conveyor, thoseliners are almost always AR
steel.
It's about the only thing thatworks.
There are different grades.
The harder they are, the harderthe steel, the longer the liner
(06:52):
is going to last.
It's also more expensive andharder to work with.
If you were working, say, withdownspouting square spouts, you
could have a urethane liner,maybe some ceramic tile liners.
Again, the longer the linerlasts generally, the more
expensive it's going to be.
In how it's installed, the typeof product it's installed on,
whether it's a firm foundation,whether it's a light sheet metal
(07:17):
, that will also control whatkind of liners you can put in
there.
Jim Lenz, Host (07:21):
Another point you raise is right-sizing
projects.
What happens when a facilityoverbuilds or underbuilds?
Jeff Schwab (07:31):
The classic example that I can think of where
everyone in the neighborhoodknows if you've underbuilt your
receiving station, is when thetrucks are all lined up on the
highway at harvest time, right?
So that's an obvious situation.
But maybe you limited thatbecause that fits your business
flow and that's all you want tohandle.
So just because it isn't rightfor one guy doesn't mean it
(07:54):
isn't right for you.
So again, looking at the visionthat you have in mind for your
business, communicating thatwith your suppliers, making sure
that everybody's on board withwhat you want, that's what
really counts.
Jim Lenz, Host (08:07):
And when you overbill.
Jeff Schwab (08:09):
You're out of money Happens to me all the time.
Jim Lenz, Host (08:13):
Bucket elevators are always a hot topic.
Let's start the debate arounddual drives.
What should people know?
Jeff Schwab (08:19):
That dual drives are a very viable option.
This comes into play when abucket elevator drive is sized
over what's economically been agood choice for a single drive
on a leg.
You get those normally up toabout 150 or 200 horsepower.
(08:41):
You can get a single shaftmount drive which is by far the
most economical choice for yourbucket elevator.
But above that horsepower youhave to look at a different type
of gearbox or you can look attwo drives.
A typical example, say a 40,000bushel bucket elevator that's
175 feet high.
You need 300 horsepower.
(09:02):
So you can't really get that ina single shaft mount.
You can either use 250 horseshaft mounts or you need a big
single, 300 horse drive.
So you need to communicate withyour electrical suppliers, with
your mechanical contractor,making sure how the tower is
going to fit the drive mountingand having all those
(09:24):
conversations back and forth tomake sure what's going to work
for you.
But the point is some peopledon't understand the concept of
the dual drive.
Each dual or a single has itsown sets of pros and cons and
working out those things to seewhat works best in your system
is the point here.
But a dual drive is a veryviable option.
(09:45):
Many people have used themsuccessfully.
Jim Lenz, Host (09:47):
You mentioned horsepower, so high horsepower
drives are another area wheremistakes get made.
What risks should facilitiesavoid there?
Jeff Schwab (09:56):
High horsepower drive.
Issues in my have generallybeen about lacks of
communication with your localelectrical co-op or wherever you
get your power from.
If you have limits as to inrushcurrents, if you're going to
have a lot of high horsepowerequipment on your site, say
(10:17):
grain dryers, or if you're doingsome processing hammer mills,
that kind of thing, big legsthose high horsepower drives.
If you need big inrush current,your local electrical supplier
may have some problems with that.
Jim Lenz, Host (10:30):
I'm thinking some listeners right now may be
thinking about current limitingdevices and soft starts.
When do they make sense and inyour mind?
When do they make sense and in?
Jeff Schwab (10:42):
your mind.
How do they help operations?
The place that I've seen thatcome into play most often is in
rural areas.
A common number that I've seenis any motors over 40 horsepower
.
In some smaller electricalco-op areas they may force you
to use a soft start or someother current limiting device so
(11:02):
it limits that inrush ofcurrent that you experience when
you start up a three-size motor.
The motor on your bucketelevator, for instance, is
capable of producing 250% of itsnormal torque on a short inrush
just to start up a new load.
But that's what the electricalco-op is trying to limit.
(11:23):
Is that voltage spike whensomebody starts something up.
So they want you to use whatwe'll call a soft start, which
is a device that limits thatinrush of current, and for most
pieces of equipment that's not abig deal.
They can start up slowly.
But one example where thatabsolutely does not work is if
you have a bucket elevatorthat's equipped with a backstop,
(11:45):
and if you don't know what thatis, a backstop is an
anti-rotational device you putin your gearbox so it prevents
the elevator from rotatingbackwards.
So let's just say you're runningyour bucket elevator one day
during a thunderstorm and youget struck by lightning and the
power goes out.
The elevator is running fullwith grain and it's shut off.
Now the backstop is holding allthe grain in the buckets and in
(12:08):
order to get that leg restartedyou have to have that 250% of
startup torque that the motor iscapable of.
But if you put a soft start onit, like the electrical utility
said, you can't get that inrushof current that you need to
start the leg.
So you had to make a choiceabout whether you had a backstop
or a soft start in your currentarea and if you weren't having
(12:33):
those conversations with boththe co-op and with your elevator
supplier and neither knows whatthe other is doing you could
end up with the wrongcombination of stuff.
And it's not that anyone theredid anything wrong, but you may
still end up with a package ofcomponents that doesn't work if
you weren't having all thosediscussions.
Jim Lenz, Host (12:52):
Ultimately, it's not just about one piece of
equipment.
How do all the pieces tietogether for safe, reliable
operation?
Jeff Schwab (13:00):
That's a great thing and a lot of people in the
Millerite construction area arevery happy that that's not an
easy thing to do.
That's a science and an art andI don't want to give away
anybody's secrets.
Of course, the reason reallyanswers to those questions, but
that's a very important part ofit for sure is getting them all
(13:20):
to work together.
Jim Lenz, Host (13:22):
You just provided some great insights on
bucket elevators and drives.
I want to shift a little bitmore to maintenance and
reliability.
Jeff, you often talk about amodern maintenance mindset.
What do you mean by that?
Jeff Schwab (13:35):
To me, that's a combination of research, of
experience, of your own records,based on what it does, keeping
in mind the new technologiesthat are available today, but
not being a slave to them anddoing everything that you're
told.
You still have to be intuitive,use your resources as best you
(13:56):
can.
I'd like to combine all ofthose things and do the thing
that you think works best, ifthere's a right plan for
everybody.
Jim Lenz, Host (14:03):
Good philosophy, for sure.
And how do smart investments upfront reduce downtime and risk
over the long run?
Jeff Schwab (14:19):
We're going to talk about some examples coming up
here where we've avoided doingsome things in some of these
other discussions, like the onesabout liners, A lot of the
components in your system.
Just doing that research upfront and making sure you invest
your money where you reallyneed it is a really important
part of the whole process.
Jim Lenz, Host (14:35):
Yeah, let's move to lessons from the field.
I would imagine, with years ofexperience, vast knowledge of
gained understanding of conceptsand relationships and all the
skills you have.
But you've been to a lot offacilities, had tons of
conversations.
This is, I think, a reallyimportant part to help our
listeners.
(14:55):
Jeff, you've spent so much timetroubleshooting really in the
field.
Can you share a memorableexample where a quality mistake
was avoided?
Jeff Schwab (15:05):
I'd love to.
I have a personal favoritethere.
I had a great opportunity someyears ago to visit a co-op that
was planning a very large newexpansion with some storage and
some grain handling equipment,and I was given an opportunity
to meet with the folks at theco-op and their contractor to
talk about the equipment thatthey wanted to buy and they had
(15:28):
specified in their list of chainconveyors that they
specifically wanted all of thepit conveyors to be oversized.
And I asked them about that andthey explained to me why they
wanted it.
And I explained to them thatthey were doing it for the wrong
reason and we got into kind ofa discussion we'll call it about
(15:50):
why that was so and I'd offeredto take them out to the local
elevator and prove to them thatthey were wrong and we promptly
did that.
What they were trying to do wasoversize the conveyor to make
sure it got adequate capacity,because they thought they were
eliminating a problem that theywere currently having, when the
size of the conveyor wasn't theproblem at all.
(16:12):
It was a constrictiondownstream that was caused by an
undersized transition and theywere about to spend a whole
bunch of money to fix a problemthat they would not have
addressed at all.
So just again, the wholecommunication part and asking
questions in this case was a bigdeal.
It saved us the chance to spendthat money where they could use
(16:36):
it better.
Jim Lenz, Host (16:37):
Oh, very nice, Very helpful for you and
actually digging in askingquestions, inquiring and then
working together.
Jeff Schwab (16:44):
It was a big win for everybody, that's for sure.
Jim Lenz, Host (16:47):
Any other lessons from the field, any
other examples you want to share?
There's so much investment inthese new projects.
Jeff Schwab (16:55):
Yes, I have another example of a co-op that was
doing an addition to add a trainloading system to their current
elevator and they'd beenworking with their local
electric co-op who'd given thema pretty firm number of
horsepower that they couldn'texceed.
That was all that was availablein the current electric grid
(17:19):
and they wanted to be able toload trains at 40,000 bushels an
hour.
But they had to have it so talland there just wasn't enough
horsepower to do what theywanted.
But the next, smaller set ofequipment at 35,000 wasn't
enough to get the trains on thetime they needed.
So through a lot of discussionwe ended up with kind of a weird
(17:39):
set of equipment that like38,000 bushel an hour or
something.
We had to make some new designsbut it worked in their
horsepower limit, in theirbudget.
It worked in everything else.
It wasn't a huge project forthe manufacturer but a little
bit of discussion turnedeverything into be exactly what
they wanted.
So it was a little out of thenorm.
(18:01):
But in communicating exactlywhat the limits were and giving
everybody input, we all gottogether and it worked out great
.
Jim Lenz, Host (18:09):
Oh, awesome, what a great story.
Let's shift from lessons fromthe field of teaching and advice
.
I can't believe you spent 50years in the green industry,
Jeff.
That doesn't seem possible.
You said you started at age 15.
I'm just real curious aboutthat.
Tell me more.
Jeff Schwab (18:24):
I was working night shift at the local mill, did
that for my last couple of yearsof high school and then two
years of vo-tech after that.
So I was a busy guy Very nice.
So on teaching and advice, Jeff,you've spent years teaching,
mentoring others, in the headsof people who are out there
(19:01):
which is why I am just such astrong believer in organizations
like Jeeps, where you can gettogether with other individuals
out there.
For people starting out in theindustry especially, there's
people out there that know whatyou need to know.
You just need to get theconnections and figure out ways
to get that out of them, andI've learned so much from some
(19:22):
of the old salts in the industryalong the way that I sure enjoy
the opportunity to pass onanything that's useful along my
way as well.
Jim Lenz, Host (19:32):
Fantastic, so knowledge sharing so critical in
the industry, isn't it?
Jeff Schwab (19:43):
critical in the industry, isn't it?
Absolutely yeah, there's justso few places and, as those who
move on take the informationwith them, it's sure nice to be
able to share it before we go.
Jim Lenz, Host (19:49):
And for the young professionals just
starting out, what's your bestadvice?
Jeff Schwab (19:54):
Don't be afraid to step in when you see an
opportunity that says I think Icould help here.
Ask questions of people.
Don't be afraid to be a pain.
Sometimes, like I did, probablyhave a few incidents where you
get accused of being a young kidthat doesn't know anything and
(20:15):
you know you should leave thisto somebody else.
But you got to start somewhere.
You have to learn.
Jim Lenz, Host (20:20):
It's not easy for anyone, so yeah, people in
the green industry generallyvery helpful people and most
people want to pass it on.
So your advice is to askquestions right and don't be
afraid to do that.
It's part of learning andgrowing, isn't it?
Jeff Schwab (20:34):
You never stop.
And if I, if I had one thingthat I would say the education
never stops, and one of thethings that I love most about
teaching is that it opens upconversations for others to
share, and I keep learning alongthe way, too, so that's a lot
of fun.
Jim Lenz, Host (20:53):
Yes, that's right.
In fact you've been one of theinstructors for the Chiefs,
kansas State University,hands-on training for the
operation maintenance ofconveying equipment.
It's at the IGP Institute, theInternational Gradients Program
at Kansas State, in one of ourrecent hot training episodes.
Jeff Schwab (21:10):
We had one of the attendees who came back for a
second round after he'd beenthrough it some years before,
and when he came back throughthe second time he reminded me
that one of the things that I'dtaught him the first time there
was a very successful piece ofinformation for him along the
way and he'd used it severaltimes since then very
(21:32):
successfully and it was one ofthe most rewarding experiences
that I'd had as a teacher,knowing firsthand that I had
helped this guy along the way.
That was awesome.
Jim Lenz, Host (21:41):
That is fantastic.
Thank you for pointing that out.
Yeah, I can imagine that is aspecial feeling For those who
are interested in registering orfinding out more information
about the Jeeps and K-Statehands-on training for the
Operation Maintenance ofConveying Equipment.
Just go to jeepscom,g-e-a-p-scom, go to the Events
and Meetings tab right in themiddle, scroll down and you can
(22:05):
go to Conveyor Training.
When you click on that, you canget more information about that
.
The hands-on training for theoperation and maintenance of
conveying equipment has adescription.
It's taking place December 9ththrough the 11th of the year
2025.
And then there's another one inspring and that's from May 5th
through the 7th as well.
Again, this is at the K-StateUniversity IGP Institute,
(22:26):
international Grains ProgramInstitute and that's in
Manhattan, kansas.
There's five on-site modules.
Each module is a half a day.
You're with a small group andevery half a day you move to a
different one.
There are five of them, sothat'll take you to two and a
half days.
Module one is on distributors.
Module two screw conveyors andbin sweeps.
(22:48):
Module three chain or drainconveyors.
Module four is bell conveyors.
Module five is bucket elevators.
There's a lunch, providedthere's snacks, provided there's
binders of resources that youcan take to use beyond that and
digital resources as well.
Just check that out on thewebsite.
Thank you so much for servingas instructor.
Jeff Schwab (23:07):
Jeff it's a pleasure, I really enjoy that.
Jim Lenz, Host (23:11):
I was there, I went through it.
One person asked a question.
That just creates greatgenerative dialogue and that's
part of the great thing aboutteaching, learning and mentoring
and doing hands on training oreven at your own facility.
So, jeff, as we wrap up here,it's been such a valuable
conversation.
If you could share one goldenrule for investing in grain
(23:33):
equipment just one thing you'dwant every listener to remember.
What would it be?
Jeff Schwab (23:39):
That there isn't one, and everything that we've
talked about education andlearning I guess that's probably
the golden rule is that no oneknows everything and you have to
keep learning and you just keepasking questions and doing the
right thing.
The process is the key goingthrough and doing all that, and
(24:00):
you will be successful with that.
It's the right thing.
The process is the key goingthrough and doing all that, and
you will be successful with that.
Jim Lenz, Host (24:03):
It's the right way to do things.
Fantastic, jeff.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
It's been a great pleasure.
I appreciate the opportunitythat wraps up today's episode of
the Cheap School Grain Podcast.
A big thank you to Jeff Schwabfor sharing his journey and 50
years of grain industry wisdomwith us today.
Your insights on right-sizingprojects, avoiding costly
mistakes and adopting a modernmaintenance mindset are lessons
(24:27):
every facility can benefit fromand to our listeners.
Take a moment to reflect onwhat you've heard.
I'd like to leave you with afew questions to reflect on and
even discuss with your teams.
Where might your facility haveoverspent or underspent on
recent equipment decisions?
Have you ever seen a projectthat was overbuilt or underbuilt
(24:47):
, and what impact did it have?
What kind of maintenancemindset does your team rely on
Preventative, reactive orsomething in between?
How does your workplaceencourage knowledge sharing?
And, most importantly, if youapply Jeff's golden rule for
investing in grain equipment,what decision would you revisit
first?
(25:07):
I encourage you to use thesequestions as a springboard for
conversation and growth with youand your team.
If you'd like a deeper dive, asa grain industry professional
GEAPS offers resources like thehands-on training program.
We have over 25 online andon-demand courses and a growing
library of podcast episodes andinteractive webinars.
A digital grain industryglossary, a video library
(25:30):
comprised of over 200 videossearchable by topic and keyword,
a program for those who are newto the industry and those who
are veteran we have thecredentialing program as well
and local GEAPS chapterinformation and activities, all
designed to help grainprofessionals learn, grow and
connect.
And don't forget about thebiggest and best event in the
(25:50):
grain industry GEAPS Exchange.
Be sure to visit geaps.
com to explore more.
That's G-E-A-P-S dot com.
My name is Jim Lenz, theDirector of Global Education and
Training at the Grain Elevatorand Processing Society.
Have yourself a great day andthanks for listening to Whole
Grain.
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