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February 5, 2025 36 mins

Ever wondered why it's so hard to let go of that old sweater or those dusty collectibles? Join us as we unravel the emotional intricacies of our attachment to possessions. Through personal stories, we explore how childhood experiences and challenging financial times shape our relationships with stuff. Hear about my mother's journey from chaos to minimalism, and learn how conditions like ADHD and depression can impact organizational skills. Together, we'll uncover the underlying guilt and procrastination tied to clutter and how an abundance mindset can transform your life.

Our conversation goes deeper, examining how hoarding can be a manifestation of unresolved trauma and emotional distress. Discover how letting go is more than just tidying up—it's a process that may require compassion, therapy, or even medication. We discuss practical ways to support loved ones struggling with these issues and emphasize teaching children the importance of mindfulness and executive functioning skills early on. By fostering understanding and self-compassion, we can navigate these emotional layers more effectively, leading to healthier relationships with our belongings.

Finally, we introduce the transformative power of mindfulness in organizing our lives. Learn how simple practices, like engaging your senses during routine tasks, can lead to intentional decision-making and a more fulfilling existence. We offer actionable tips to incorporate mindfulness seamlessly into your everyday routine, helping you break free from autopilot and reducing stress. As we wrap up, we extend our gratitude to you, our listeners, for supporting "Why Am I Like This" and invite you to continue this journey with us by sharing, rating, and reviewing our podcast.

Laura's Free Course on Emotional Development and Regulation:
https://benavieri.com/neuroception-sign-up/

This show is sponsored by:

Core Self

www.coreself.org

Benavieri Counseling & Coaching
www.benavieri.com

Active Healing Psychiatric Services
www.activehealingpsych.com

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Laura (00:02):
Hello and welcome to.
Why Am I Like this?
The podcast for those whodidn't get enough hugs as a
child?
I'm Laura Wood and I'm a traumatherapist.

Michaela (00:12):
And I'm Michaela Beaver.
I'm a psychiatric nursepractitioner.

Laura (00:16):
So, Michaela, why are we doing this podcast?

Michaela (00:19):
I'm so glad you asked.
We want to help you understandyourself a little bit better,
how the things that you learnedabout yourself and the world and
childhood are still affectingyou asked.
We want to help you understandyourself a little bit better,
how the things that you learnedabout yourself and the world and
childhood are still affectingyou today.
We want to figure out why arewe like this those random
questions about ourselves thatwe might wonder about.
Why am I so jumpy?
Why am I so anxious?
Why do I take everythingpersonally?
Why are my thoughts so negative?

(00:41):
Why do I feel like I have tofix everything all the time?

Laura (00:46):
Yes, and we are talking about holding on to stuff today
and we're going to try to answerthe following questions why
can't I let go of things?
Why do I keep buying stuff?
How do I start to let go?
So let's get into it.
What's the deal?
Why do we have so much stuffthat we can't let go of?

Michaela (01:08):
I think this is such an interesting topic to talk
about and I think that there'smultiple causes for why we can't
let go of things.
Or if we're actually truly likehoarding stuff right, and I
think it's a spectrum, right, Ithink that we can be just
someone who has entirely toomuch stuff, but like we're not

(01:29):
quite into that hoarding level,and I think that we could, you
know.
Then there's people out therethat literally, you know, you
see, in the movies, there's justlike literally boxes of piles
of piles of piles of things andit's like ways to get through
their, their home, and so Ithink that you know some.
One of the things that comes upfor me is that, like, I have a

(01:52):
hard time getting rid of things.
I think it's two things.
When I was thinking about this,I was like why?
Why is this hard?
Right?
Yeah, one, I think it's thefact that it seems like so much
work, right, I look in my closetand I'm like I don't wear half
of this stuff, I'll get rid ofit.
Then I start looking at thestuff and I'm like, oh, this is

(02:13):
so much work, and what if I needthat one thing someday?
What if I want that thing?
And I think that, like, theremight be like a negative.
You know a thing from childhood, right Like?
I think that, like, for me, Ihad this belief that I didn't
have nice stuff as a kid, and Ithink that you know that my

(02:39):
perception of that as a kid wasthat, like that's why that was
the root of my problems, rightLike, just because I got my
shirt from Walmart, it must bethat that's the reason why I
don't fit in, or that must bethe reason why this thing
happened.
And so now, when I look atthose things, I'm like that I
think that that's.
There's probably some kind oflike emotional tie to stuff,

(03:01):
like I don't like the feeling ofnot having stuff.
So I think that's like that'sone of the things that I caught,
like came up with.
What about you?
What do you think?

Laura (03:11):
Yeah, I was thinking about this too, because over the
weekend I was really trying toget rid of stuff.
So I have a lot of um.
I moved into my house about sixmonths ago and I have like a
handful of boxes that are stillboxes and I'm like why is this
happening?
What do I need to do about it?

(03:31):
You know, why can't I unpackthis stuff?
Like what, if it's in a box andit's been six months that I've
lived here and I obviouslyhaven't needed it or used it?
Like why am I keeping it?
What's going on here?
So I really had to think aboutwhat am I doing and why.
So I started to realize for methere's a few things that are

(03:52):
going on.
I sometimes have a scarcitymindset, and so what I mean by
that is I sometimes feel like Iwon't have the ability to buy
more things, or I'm going toneed something and I won't be
able to afford to buy it andI've already paid for this thing
, and so I need to keep it, justin case that I can't afford
something in the future, becauseI had a long, a lot of years of

(04:15):
my life where I really couldn'tafford things and I was, you
know, living in a really toughfinancial situation and so I
couldn't buy new things, Icouldn't go out and get shoes
for the kids when they neededthem and like that like stuck
with me.
And so now it's like I've gotthese pairs of shoes that are
like too small for them, but Ican't get rid of them because I

(04:37):
don't know what to do.
You know, I I just I'm like,well, that they need these shoes
, but it's like no, they don'tneed these shoes.
They have shoes and we can buymore shoes or we can save up
money to buy shoes.
We can get another job if Ineed to.
Like.
Now I'm trying to switch intolike an abundance mindset where,
like I know that I know how tomake money, I can make more

(04:57):
money if I need to.
If I had to get a second job,or if I had to go out and, do
you know, some side work or, youknow, take on more work at work
, like if there's.
So I'm trying to like givemyself that mindset shift of
like I can do this because it'llbe okay in the future, I'll be
able to afford it, I'll be ableto get what I need, so like, so

(05:17):
that's something that kind ofsticks with me.
Another thing that I wasnoticing is that I have this
like emotional attachment tosome stuff, especially when it
has to do with the kids.
So I'm like, okay, so there'sthese Nike shoes, right, and I'm
like, what if these are likevaluable someday?
Or like what if my kids want tolike pass these onto their kids
, like they're really cute andlike they'd be retro and they'd

(05:39):
be like this, like what if theywant to give them to their kids
and like have them as part oftheir family, like and whatever?
Um, so I, I have this likeattachment to, like I don't want
to get rid of my kids thingsbecause I want them to be able
to see and have like the stufffrom their childhoods in the
future.
Um, and then some stuff I wasnoticing.

(06:00):
I was like, but remember thisday, like I got rid of a
sweatshirt that I bought inHawaii and I was like, because
that was like my souvenir forHawaii trip, right, but I'm like
, okay, it's a size extra small.
That's not what size I wear.
I'm not going to fit into thatsweatshirt.
I need to just move on fromthis sweatshirt I have.

(06:22):
And then so so I told myself,and we can get into this part a
little bit later when we talkabout letting go.
But, like I told myself, I havethe memories from this trip,
right, I have the experience,that of this trip.
I have that in my heart and inmy mind and I have photos and
other things like that.
So I don't have to keep thissweatshirt, right, yeah.

(06:44):
And then some of it was justlike about the value of the
thing.
So I'm like, going through allthis, right, I'm like, okay,
this thing has value, I couldsell it.
And then I'm like, okay, I'mgoing to sell this for what?
$12 or something like that.
Like this, these shoes for $12,like these used shoes, how much

(07:06):
is that really worth?
Like the time that it's going totake me like I might have to
take it, cause I'm thinking, oh,I could take like two days off
work and like sell all thisstuff.
I would make so much more moneyworking those two days than I
would by selling all of thisstuff, even if I had the time to
do it.
So I just I had all of thesedifferent things running through
my mind and I could like hearmyself justifying, like why I'm

(07:28):
holding onto this stuff and itjust was giving me so much
anxiety Cause I also feltoverwhelmed.
I felt like I have so much Idon't know what to do with.
I'm looking in this box and Ijust want to close it up and
walk away and I just don't wantto deal with it.
So it's like sometimes I justavoid trying to take care of the
stuff too, so it was just likea whole mess of stuff all at

(07:49):
once.

Michaela (07:50):
For sure that makes a lot of sense.
I know I I my office that I'min right now had boxes in it for
months and I was seeing clientsin my office with boxes all
around me and I just didn't wantto go through all of the papers
.
It was going to take so mucheffort.
It was like just like youwanted to just ignore it because

(08:11):
it was easier to ignore it thanit was to go through and be
like all right, do I need mytaxes from you?
Know 2006?
Now no, so I probably couldshred this yeah.

Laura (08:23):
Yeah, it's hard to get rid of stuff that you think you
might need again.
Right, like I keep like all thelittle screws and and nails,
like from all the different likethings that I put together, and
it's like they always have theextras, like I keep the.
But it's like, why am I keepingthis when I'm not going to use
it?

(08:44):
It's like a tiny little screw,like a specialty item or
something like that.
That, like that really onlygoes to one thing, and I don't
even know what thing it goes toanymore, right, so I might as
well just move on from it andsay I don't have to hold on to
this anymore, I don't have tokeep this in my life anymore.
It doesn't define like.

(09:05):
It doesn't define me, itdoesn't like having this doesn't
like make my life easier orbetter in any way, you know.
So I just had to kind of tryreally hard and say if I haven't
used it or need it in a year,then it probably doesn't belong
in my home.

Michaela (09:22):
It's a good way to think about it doesn't belong in
my home.
It's a good way to think aboutit.
One of the other things that Ithink about for like hoarding is
like OCD and so like inobsessive compulsive disorder.
You you know there can be ahoarding component to that, and
so you know it can be a brainrelated thing where our anterior

(09:44):
cingulate especially is justoveractive and so one of our
intrusive thoughts is to hang onto things.
Maybe there's a compulsion orthe compulsion is to hang on to
things and maybe there's athought that's going along with
that.
That's like I can't get rid ofthis or something bad is going
to happen, like maybe I'm goingto die if I don't, if I don't if

(10:07):
I get rid of this, like.
So we can have some intrusivethoughts that lead to the
compulsion of hoarding as well.

Laura (10:16):
Yeah, and you know there's.
There's some research showingthat there might be a genetic
component to hoarding behaviorsas well.
So like hoarding is when wecompulsively, obsessively, have
to gather more things and wecan't let go of things, even if
those things have no value orthey're wasteful or they're
dangerous or unsanitary Likesometimes with hoarding it's

(10:37):
hard to even get rid of.
Like trash, anything that comesinto the home stays in the home
and then it's.
It's also marked with thecomponent of continuing to
acquire things that we don't.
You know that either we don't,we might not need or we might
not use, but we have to kind ofkeep acquiring.
So there's that.
Why do I keep buying stuff?
You know component of it toowhich, in my opinion, buying

(11:02):
stuff can act as like a comfort.
You know it's like I'm copingwith my distress, I'm
controlling this, like I haveI'm going out and getting more
things and like I get adrenalinefrom that and I get dopamine
from that and I get this.
Like it's an addiction tocontinuing to buy more things.

Michaela (11:21):
Yeah, it was interesting that I was, you know
, looking this up and thinkingabout this as I was thinking
about this topic, and it wassaying that there is a lot of
comorbidities that go along withhoarding, including ADHD.
So you think about, like, thatdesire to buy things, the
impulsive nature of the disorderitself, and so we're
impulsively, you know, we'retrying to seek dopamine to make

(11:44):
us feel better, same with, like,depression was another one of
the ones and so, like, if we'rebuying things to try to like
cope with our depressivesymptoms, to try to help make us
feel better, you know that canlead to kind of those buying
behaviors as well.

Laura (12:01):
Yeah, I'm buying more and more things because that maybe
shows my value.
Maybe I don't feel like I havea lot of value and so I seek out
stuff that gives me the valueLike I am what I have.
I feel like I feel like I haveif I have more than I'm more
secure.
So, like going back to thatscarcity mindset, sometimes
abundance is a sign of safetyfor people who have gone through

(12:25):
scarcity Right.

Michaela (12:27):
It's funny that you mentioned that.
I was talking about this withmy mom and she's the type of
person that literally wants toget rid of everything, don't
throw it away, and like convinceherself not to throw it away.
And we were talking about thatand she said that you know, my,

(12:57):
my grandma, she wasn't a hoarder, but she didn't get rid of
things and she kind of kepteverything out like on the
counters and like setting itwasn't like tucked away, hidden.
You know, it was like it didn'tmatter where it was, it was
kind of cluttered.
And so growing up in that likeenvironment actually made her
have the opposite effect of justwanting to like not liking
clutter, wanting to get rid ofeverything, feeling like that

(13:17):
need to do the opposite.

Laura (13:21):
That makes so much sense, like when we see our parent
like overly collecting or overlycluttered, and we live in that
environment and we feel like, oh, this is too chaotic, I don't
want to be like this, and thenwe sort of overcorrect and go
the opposite way and then we'rethrowing everything away.
That makes so much sense.

Michaela (13:38):
But I do think that it could be the.
It could be like that's justwhat I know, right, and so I
don't know to do anythingdifferent, like nobody ever
taught me, like that this wasn'tnormal.
So I just I leave everything, Icollect all the things.
I don't get rid of thingsbecause I wasn't.
That's just what I think is thestandard.

Laura (13:56):
And also maybe we lack the organizational skills.
Like you mentioned with ADHD,you know that exec those
executive functioning skills toorganize and be, be orderly.
Those skills are not inherent,Like those are often learned
skills.
We don't know how to do that.
So there's a big link betweenhoarding and being chronically

(14:17):
disorganized and having having ahard time where not everything
in your house has a has a placeto live, Like not everything in
your house has a place to tobelong, and so I think about
that with my house.
I'm a little bit of a clutteredperson.
I tend to have clutter.
I don't always have a place forthings to go.
I probably should clean out mydesk drawers because there's

(14:41):
like things in here that I don'tneed, Like I could open my
drawer right now and find youknow, oh, here's a poppet Like
do I really need this?
Oh, here's another one here.
Maybe it doesn't belong in mydesk drawer, Maybe I, maybe I
shouldn't put that where itbelongs instead.
So, like, a lot of the time forme I don't put things where
they belong, Like they don'thave like a set home or whatever

(15:02):
, and that can lead to clutterand mess.
And my mom is the opposite.
She is very organized and veryorderly and keeps everything in
a certain everything a certainway, and so sometimes I wish
that I got.
I inherited that gene from her,but I did not.

Michaela (15:22):
Well, and I think too about, like depression, like
maybe you want to be anorganized person, but like you
just don't have the energy andthe motivation to organize
things or try to get rid ofthings.
But you know, buying thingsmakes us feel better, so we just
keep collecting and collecting,and collecting, and yet, like
we just don't, it doesn'tactually solve the thing that

(15:44):
we're the emptiness or thesadness and so, and then we
don't have them, we never getout of this rut, and so then we
never have the motivation.
It just feels like so much workto even get off the couch, much
less try to go organize or getrid of things, and so things
collect over time.

Laura (16:02):
Yeah, and it sneaks up on you.
It's a little bit like a frogin a boiling water, right?
It's like all of a sudden, youjust have like this pile of
stuff and you're like, oh mygosh, I haven't gone through my
mail in seven weeks and there'sprobably important things in
there and I just let it sit onthis pile and add it up and add
it up.
So for those of us who don'thave those organizational skills

(16:23):
, we have to be really mindfuland really intentional about,
like I'm going to do this rightnow.
Like one of my kids is veryorganized and he does a really
good job of being orderly and um, so he gets frustrated with us
when we don't take our trashbins in from the street, like
that next day, right, like he'slike, why don't we just do it

(16:44):
right now?
Like it just, it needs to getdone, just get it done.
And I'm a little bit of aprocrastinator and so we have to
kind of, we have to be selfaware in that and to know, like
what it is that we're capable of, what our strengths are and
then what our weaknesses are,and so we have to kind of, we
have to do the opposite of someof those weaknesses, like for me

(17:04):
, I'll be like, oh, I'll getthat later.
No, I'm going to get it now.
I'm going to do the opposite.
I'm going to get it now.
Or you know, the day that Icheck the mail, I'm going to go
through the mail and I'm goingto sort it and I'm going to file
these things away.
I have a filing cabinet right.
That's hard, but it is reallyhard, and so I think for some of
us there could be like geneticcomponents, brain stuff going on

(17:27):
.

Michaela (17:34):
The other thing that what you were saying made me
think about was the negativefeeling component of it.
Like I feel so guilty forhaving bought all those things
that I didn't need and didn'treturn because I didn't get to
it or whatever.
And then so like now I have to,or I didn't get the mail and I
missed this bill, and so nowjust even confronting those
negative feelings it just feelstoo overwhelming and too guilt,

(17:58):
like it just makes me feel worse.
So I'm just, it's easier justto ignore that they're, that
they even exist.

Laura (18:04):
Yeah, that's such a good point.
There's negative feelingsassociated too with, like,
getting rid of things, like it'sa loss, like I don't get to
have this in my life anymore.
Maybe I didn't use this, like Ibought this for a purpose and I
never used it.
Or, you know, maybe it'ssomething from my childhood and
it brings up really fondmemories and I'm getting rid of
that and it feels like I'mthrowing that part of myself

(18:24):
away.
Or maybe it's something that Imade, maybe it's like a homemade
item or a handmade item orsomething like I worked really
hard on and you know, nowthere's no more room for it or I
don't need it anymore.
I think there are so manynegative feelings associated
with not having those thingsanymore or with getting rid of
them, and kind of having toconfront those feelings can be

(18:47):
really hard.

Michaela (18:48):
Yeah, can be really hard, yeah.

Laura (18:50):
And the other thing that comes up when it comes to like
not wanting to, or wanting tokeep buying more things or not
wanting to let go of old things,is that the things that are
there for you, right?
So like something that got methrough a really hard time,
let's say like a special item, acomfort item of sorts.

(19:10):
I might not want to get rid ofthat item because it helped me
through a really hard time and Ifeel beholden to that item.
I feel like that item.
I owe that item, things LikeI've personified it in a way.
I've made it, you know, part ofme where you know it did so
much for me.
I want to keep it and honor itand cherish it and I can't think
of that item as just a thing.

Michaela (19:32):
Yeah, do you think that there's a tie with that,
with, like, maybe attachmenttrauma, like you know from
childhood or whatever that thatmight be more likely to develop
into, you know, having thatpersonification of an item?

Laura (19:48):
I do think so.
I think, when we areemotionally attached to our
items, like there's definitely avoid being filled there right,
like there's definitelysomething going on where perhaps
I suffered a loss, or Isuffered a loss of attachment in
childhood that made me need tocollect more things and that
makes me feel really sad andupset and maybe even unsafe when

(20:12):
I don't have those things withme.

Michaela (20:17):
Yeah, I could definitely see that being hard
and I think, like you know, Ipersonally go back to that like
I just might need this someday.
Like I feel like that's a huge,huge piece of it is like I just
might need this someday.
And how do I know?
I can't know the future.
So, like, how do I know that Iwon't need it someday?

(20:37):
And I think that like leads meto believe that, like there is a
piece of this where you have tostart doing a little bit of
that cognitive restructuringwhere you're like, okay, even if
I do need it someday, I can beokay, even if I don't have it
Right.
And so being able to talkyourself through that and say,
like, even if I do want it orwish I had it, that doesn't mean

(21:00):
that I can't be okay in thatmoment.
I can get another one.
I could, I can.
There's other ways that I cango around this and still be able
to survive.
Right, it's not, it's not.
It might be difficult, but it'snot dangerous, like you always
say.

Laura (21:15):
Yeah, I think that's right.
I think when we are worriedthat we're going to need it
someday, there's that somescarcity stuff going on and so
there's like there's some lifethreat happening in there and we
get a little worked up,thinking like I won't be able to
survive without this.
So you kind of have to reframethat.
But you can also, you know,realize that if you do need it,

(21:37):
you can either buy another one,you can borrow one, you know you
can do all of these things toget it.
But also, like, what is itwhat's happening to you now
because you have it right?
So, like shifting back into thepresent and saying like, okay,
I might need this someday, but Idon't need it now.
And it, taking up the space andgetting in my way and being

(21:58):
part of a pile of things thatgives me anxiety, is actually
causing me harm right now.
Like having it is causing meharm, even if in the future I
might need it.
It's not the future, it's todayand today.
This item is not need it.
It's not the future, it's todayand today.
This item is not helping me.
It's not helping me achieve mygoals.
One thing that you know standsout as a good way to start, like

(22:19):
, making those decisions is whatare my goals right now?
Right, like not necessarily.
What are my goals in the future?
And what happened in the past?
Cause, cause collecting stuff.
It's you're collecting stuff foryour past or you're collecting
stuff for your future.
You're not doing it for thepresent.
You know, you're saying I'meither holding onto things from

(22:42):
the past that make me feel acertain way, which I can get
that feeling another way.
Maybe I can take a picture ofall of those items, maybe I can
make a collage of these items,maybe I can do this, you know,
like store them in a way thatdoesn't take up that space, and
then, if I'm doing something forthe future, like I'm planning
for the future, I might get tothat someday I'm going to do

(23:03):
this project, I'm going to dothis thing that I bought these
supplies for, or I have thesesupplies for something that
might come up, but realizingthat it's not, then it's now,
and so am I going to use itright now or am I going to start
that project today?
If the answer is no, then I'mreally not living in the present
.
I'm really living in the futureor the past.

Michaela (23:28):
Oh my gosh, I see you were just saying that I
literally pictured like fivedifferent things.
That I was like oh yeah, that'sme.
Right now I have some thingsright.
Not hoarding level things, but Ihave like some things right.
Or you're like oh man, I haveall those t-shirts and
sweatshirts that maybe somedayI'll make a like blanket out of.
Or you're like, oh man, I haveall those t-shirts and
sweatshirts that maybe somedayI'll make a like blanket out of.
And you're just like no, I'mnever going to do that, it's

(23:51):
never going to happen?

Laura (23:53):
Yeah, it's never going to happen.
And if you want it to happen,are you going to make it happen
right now, right?
So, like, as you think aboutokay, I'm going to, am I going
to get rid of these things or doI want to make that blanket?
Let me go and I'm going tosearch for a company that makes
blankets out of old things andI'm going to ship them today,
right, and so I'm going to havethat blanket and then I'm going

(24:14):
to go ahead and donate thescraps and the rest of the stuff
, like, um, because I'm going tohave that as my keepsake, right
, as my keepsake, right?
So, like, it's not that we haveto get rid of everything, it's
that we have to do the thingthat we have the thing for and
we have to make it necessary,like we have to make it part of
our present day and part of ourcurrent life, or we can decide

(24:34):
that that's not something that'simportant to us.

Michaela (24:37):
Yeah, I like that.
I think that you know, when itcomes to, you know, hoarding on
like an obsessive, compulsivelevel, I think that that's a
whole more complicated scenario.
We may not be able it's notgoing to be as easy to just talk
ourselves through.
You know that one.
I think that that's going totake some, some higher levels of

(24:58):
either medications or intensetherapy to try to work through
some of those intense, intrusivethoughts that are leading to
that compulsive hoarding.
So you know, when we're talkingabout this, you know we
understand that there's there isa lot there can be.
It can be more difficult thanjust saying, okay, I'm going to
do something with it.
But you know there are thingsand people out there that can

(25:19):
support you through making thosedecisions and coming up with a
plan and taking steps in theright direction as well.

Laura (25:26):
Yeah, I totally agree with that.
I think there's levels, there'sthis spectrum.
But also, you know, one of thethings that we do, one of the
things that comes up withhoarding and collecting
behaviors, things like that, isactually that it.
It serves as an avoidancemechanism for our feelings of,
like past trauma.
So sometimes that stuff cancover up, you know, really

(25:48):
uncomfortable feelings andreally difficult distress that
we've been distracting ourselvesfrom all this time.
And so, as you do start goingthrough this process of you know
it's a new year we're maybemoving through some things that
we don't need anymore.
're um trying to make a cleanslate.
Maybe you're getting started.
You know thinking about springcleaning, whatever.

(26:08):
Um, as you do start to let goof things, you might notice like
really uncomfortable feelingscoming up and that could be an
indicator that there's deeperwork to do, even if you're not
at that hoarding level yeah, Ilove that.

Michaela (26:24):
I think that's such a good, like unique way of
thinking about it that I hadn'tthought about before that it
could uncover some things, andso that's a good point to make.

Laura (26:35):
Yeah, our layers of stuff can kind of be layers of
distraction and layers ofidentity that we are sort of
covering up other stuff with.
I think that happens quite abit when we talk about
addressing symptoms.
Sometimes that can disrupt whatthose symptoms are protecting

(26:57):
against, like what they'reprotecting us from knowing and
protecting us from realizing andprotecting us from dealing with
.
So sometimes holding on andbuying stuff are symptoms of a
deeper problem.
They can also be addictionrelated.

Michaela (27:11):
Yeah, so when, when you're talking about that, what
came up for me was maybe likehaving grace for ourselves.
Like, even if we're trying towalk this path and it is hard
that, knowing that that's okay,right, and not like it's going
to be a journey it may not be aseasy as just like saying, oh, I
don't need this right now, okay, thanks thing for, you know,

(27:33):
giving me joy when I had it andneeded it, and then I don't need
it anymore, so we're just goingto get rid of it.
Um, it might be morecomplicated than that.
So, you know, if you're tryingto do the things and you, you,
you know, try to go get rid ofthat thing and you're like, oh,
it just makes me feel too bad,you know, then, knowing that
that's okay and that it's goingto be a little bit more of a

(27:54):
journey and a process to try towork through those things, but
it it's like it's like a warningbell, right, like, okay,
there's like ding, ding, ding,okay there, there is more to
this than just me not wanting toget rid of it, or me being lazy
.

Laura (28:10):
Maybe there's something else going on.
Yeah, most of us aren't doingthings because we're just lazy
or like, not that smart, or wedon't like, or we're you know
something negative about us?
It's usually that we're dealingwith something and we're coping
with distress in some way.
And're you know somethingnegative about us?
It's usually that we're dealingwith something and we're coping
with distress in some way.
And you know, buying andkeeping things can be, can be
that too.
And I think about people whohave lived through really hard

(28:35):
times, like I was talking aboutthe beginning, like if you've
experienced scarcity, especiallylike food scarcity or you know
things like that in the past.
It's really hard to let go ofthings once you've acquired them
.
Um, because that's a trauma,and so that's important to work
through, that's important torecognize like I'm coping with
this in this way and that's notnecessary.
There's other ways that I canhandle this and I can be healthy

(28:57):
and healed.

Michaela (28:58):
Um, which then also makes me think of like having
grace for our partners.
That might be like this may notbe talking about you, but you
might be married to or datingsomeone who these things, and so
maybe this is an alternativeway of viewing it, of being like
oh, there's something deepergoing on here and how can I

(29:19):
support this person in theirjourney and recognizing that
maybe there's more work thatthey can do.

Laura (29:27):
And you know, teaching when we're thinking about our
partners and our families.
Teaching our kids how to let goof things that they don't need
anymore, by by donating them andrecognizing that other people
can use their, our old things.
Or saying I like what you saidabout thank you thing for
bringing me joy when we need it,when I needed you, and like

(29:48):
thank you for being a part of mylife.
And now I'm going to move, likeyou're going to move on to
somebody else's life andsomething else and you know a
different.
Or I'm going to repurpose thisthing and turn it into a blanket
, or I'm going to whatever.
I think teaching our kids howto organize for themselves, like
those executive functioningskills that we didn't
necessarily learn or that wedidn't necessarily hold on to

(30:09):
because, like I'm sure I couldhave learned them, but I didn't.

Michaela (30:13):
Like my mom has the skills, I don't have the skills,
so I know, I think that that'sone of the things that I tell a
lot of my ADHD patients, right,I'm like you know your brain,
especially adults that didn'tget diagnosed until being an
adult.
I'm like this these are skillsthat you should have learned or

(30:35):
could have learned if you weregiven the resources back then
and you didn't, and so these arereally hard things that you're
going to have to learn now as anadult.
Like it's.
It's not just as simple astaking a medicine All of a
sudden.
I'm an organized human being.
I'm not.
I have to learn skills tomanage the organization that,
like you said, everything needsa place, right, that takes time
and energy and it brings upnegative feelings of why did I'm

(30:57):
?
I'm almost 40 years old, whydidn't I learn this thing
already?
And so there's a lot of it's.
It's hard.

Laura (31:04):
And there can be a lot of shame in like why didn't, how
did I let it get this bad?
Or you know, why haven't I donethis better?
Like what's wrong with me?
You know I'm not a good personor I'm not a smart person or I'm
not a capable person.
You know all those negativebeliefs about ourself that come
in when we have shame and whenwe have when we're blaming.
So I love what you said aboutgiving ourselves grace and

(31:27):
giving our partners grace andreally allowing this to be a
journey and a process and notsomething that we just are like
oh I'm now, all of a sudden, I'msupposed to be this whole
different way.

Michaela (31:38):
Yeah, that's not realistic and can will will
create a whole lot more stress.
I know like we're.
We're in the new year andeverybody wants to create
resolutions and goals andthey're like, yes, now I'm just
not this person.
And it's like no, it doesn'twork that way.
It doesn't work that way youjust are on a journey to to

(31:59):
change those things you know,thinking about that default mode
network of of things like we.
We have created this way ofbeing and it's so ingrained in
us that it's just it's there,it's there and we don't have to
think about it.

Laura (32:15):
It's routine.

Michaela (32:16):
It's habit.

Laura (32:17):
It's autopilot.

Michaela (32:18):
Yeah, it's autopilot and, like, some of these
decisions that we're making arenot calculated decisions day in
and day out.
They're just things that arejust happening because that's
just how we survived.

Laura (32:31):
And that's where mindfulness comes in too.
Mindfulness and being in thepresent are a way for you to
start making intentionaldecisions instead of living in
that default mode.
I think those are really greatskills to start learning,
especially if you have aresolution.
To be able to keep thatresolution, you might need to
incorporate some mindfulness too.

Michaela (32:53):
Yeah, I love that and so you know, is there a way that
you would start having someonestart using mindfulness that
maybe you know has never used itbefore?
Might have a very busy, activebrain and it's hard for them to
you know be in the presentmoment?
Or do that mindfulness, thosemindfulness techniques.

Laura (33:15):
One thing that I think can be really helpful is
actually like those coloringbooks, because they really they
make you concentrate.
So like if your brain is reallyactive you have to kind of
concentrate on those things.
And even if you spend maybelike five to 10 minutes just
doing a little bit of those youknow those adult coloring books
or whatever I know it soundssilly, but they're not just for

(33:37):
fun Like they really do helpyour brain settle and stay
settled.
When I, when I'm doingneurofeedback, it's I can see
the brain calm down whenengaging with like art or
coloring.
Like you can actually like tosee your brain like shift into a
calmer mode when when you'reengaging in some of those

(34:00):
activities.
So that can be really helpful.

Michaela (34:02):
Yeah, I think that, like there's some like it's a
sensory thing, like you'reengaging in, like the, the feel
of, like the color, like the,what you're doing, and then you
get you're seeing progress, likeyou get to see it come together
and it's starting to take form,and I think that that can be
really like part of that, likehealing.

Laura (34:22):
Absolutely.
It's not just nothing.
Some people think ofmindfulness as just like
nothingness, and it's not.
You can have a goal, you canset something, you can.
You know if you can count theleaves on the plants in your
house, you can do, you can do atask while being mindful and
you're noticing.
Okay, what else am I noticingabout that plant?
Like, oh, there's life there,there's abundance there, there's

(34:45):
.
These are signals of safety,these are signals of life and
vitality.
And so when I notice thingslike that, I feel better.

Michaela (34:53):
So, noticing nature, counting the trees, like going
for a walk, exploring, RightLike it's, it's sensory like you
can be like wow, the water sowarm.
I'm seeing bubbles.
Like look at this plate, getclean.
Right Like you're, you're notmindlessly doing a task.
You can be engaged in the taskand be present and feeling your

(35:15):
body and feeling the senses andthings like that.

Laura (35:19):
Yeah, so when you're doing the dishes, the
mindfulness part is payingattention, is paying attention
to noticing all of those things,like you said, the bubbles and
the plates and the feeling of itand the warmth of the water,
all of those things, noticingyour senses and what your senses
are bringing in.
That's mindfulness.
You could do it during anything.

Michaela (35:38):
I love that and people that are very busy can notice
that they don't have to stopwhat they're doing to be mindful
and be present.

Laura (35:54):
Yes, I love that.
That's a really good point.
Well, I think that's a goodplace to end it today on our
mindfulness journey to keepingour resolutions and being more
orderly and letting go of things.
Thank you so much for thisconversation and thank you for
listening to.
Why Am I Like this.
If you like our show, pleaseleave us a rating and review on
your favorite podcast platform.

(36:14):
Follow the show and share itwith your friends.
This episode was written andproduced by me, laura Wood and
Michaela Beaver.
Our theme song is Making EndsMeet by Thick as Thieves, and a
special thanks to Ben and VeryCounseling and Coaching and
Active Healing PsychiatricServices for sponsoring this
show.
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