May 22, 2025 • 43 mins
Emotions are complex internal experiences that provide valuable information about our values and responses to situations, yet many of us struggle to manage them effectively.
• Emotions are subjective experiences that vary from person to person
• Children experience emotions intensely because they lack adult context and understanding of time
• Anger often masks more vulnerable feelings like fear, sadness, or rejection
• Many adults struggle with emotions because they never learned co-regulation in childhood
• Recognizing separation between yourself and others helps tolerate their distress
• You can express emotions without acting on them through journaling or talking
• Using visualization techniques like "containers" can help manage overwhelming feelings
• Focusing on connection rather than compliance builds better relationships with children
• Teaching emotional intelligence means validating feelings while setting boundaries on behaviors
• Being okay while others are distressed is a powerful skill in any relationship
Visit coreself.az to learn more about our new practice offering therapy, medication management, and innovative treatments like Spravato and TMS for treatment-resistant depression.
Laura's Free Course on Emotional Development and Regulation:
https://benavieri.com/neuroception-sign-up/
This show is sponsored by:
Core Self
Benavieri Counseling & Coaching
www.benavieri.com
Active Healing Psychiatric Services
www.activehealingpsych.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Laura (00:02):
Hello and welcome to.
Why Am I Like this?
The podcast for those whodidn't get enough hugs as a
child?
I'm Laura Wood and I'm a traumatherapist.
Michaela (00:12):
And I'm Michaela Beaver.
I'm a psychiatric nursepractitioner.
Laura (00:17):
So, Michaela, why are we doing this podcast?
Michaela (00:21):
I am so glad you asked .
We want to help you understandyourself a bit better how the
things you learned aboutyourself and the world in
childhood are still affectingyou today.
We want to figure out why arewe like this, those random
things about ourselves that wemight wonder about, like why am
I so jumpy?
Why am I so anxious?
Why do I take everythingpersonally?
(00:41):
Why are my thoughts so negative?
Why do I feel like I have tofix everything all the time?
Laura (00:48):
Yes, and today we are talking about feelings.
We're talking about emotionstoday and we're going to try to
answer the following questionwhat are emotions, why is it so
hard to deal with them and howdo I learn to tolerate big
feelings them and how do I learnto tolerate big feelings?
Michaela (01:04):
Let's start by introducing our new endeavor and
then we can get into today'stopic.
Yes, so Laura and I did a thingand we started a practice
together and it's called CoreSelf, because we want to help
(01:25):
you understand and get back toyou know, your core self, and I
think that you know.
At Core Self, our goals are toreally help ourselves align with
both the medication managementside of things and the
psychotherapy side of things andthe psychotherapy side of
things, and helping peoplemanage all sorts of you know
(01:49):
different things like depression, anxiety and ADHD, all the
things.
Laura (01:58):
Yeah.
So we want to join forces withyou know, not just one solution.
We want to join forces and havemultiple solutions that are new
and old and, you know,innovative and just
non-traditional solutions toproblems that we've been facing
(02:19):
for a long time.
Like, one of the biggest thingsthat I think we're going to be
focused on treating istreatment-resistant depression,
and treatment-resistantdepression is a really, really
hard thing to deal with, whereyou know you've tried medicine
after medicine after medicine,you've tried therapy, you've
tried all these things that arejust not working, or you still
(02:41):
have that lull of like.
I just feel, you know, likenumb, or I feel dead inside, or
I feel like I'm not, you know,really engaged in my life fully,
I'm not experiencing thebrightness of life that I should
be, and for those people whoare experiencing treatment
resistant depression, it reallyis like a dark cloud over every
(03:02):
second of every day, and we wantto help those people.
And so what are we offering todo that?
Michaela (03:09):
Well, I'm so glad you asked Traditional medication
management.
Of course, right, we want to.
We don't want to throw out theold things that are helpful, but
we want to also add in some newthings.
And so, you know, we'reoffering Spravato, which is a
(03:33):
treatment that's covered byinsurance and it's kind of like
the you know people.
It's called Esketamine and it'sin the ketamine family.
It is a nasal spray that isgiven in the office under
supervision of a provider, andpeople are in the office for two
(03:57):
hours being monitored and it'shelping to use the glutamate
pathway and it is helping to,you know, and our hope is that
it's going to be used alongsidepsychotherapy and specifically
an EMDR therapy that Laura hascreated so that people can do
(04:21):
trauma work alongside using thismedication, so that we can see
the best results.
Laura (04:29):
Yeah, we don't want to just use one thing or the other.
Right, we believe that all ofthese treatments work well
together and there is a tiny bitof research starting to form,
because we've just been startingto use these treatments and we
find that they're so effective.
But there's a tiny bit ofresearch about utilizing therapy
(04:49):
in conjunction with thesetreatments, and we want to be
part of that group.
We want to start reallyunderstanding how EMDR therapy
in conjunction with Spravatotreatments can support recovery,
because one thing we know aboutesketamine treatments is that
it helps our brains improve ourneuroplasticity.
It sort of activates ourneuroplasticity, I should say,
(05:14):
and what we need in traumahealing is neuroplasticity.
We need that safety in the room, which is why we're in, you
know, in office.
We are monitored by providers.
We're creating a safeenvironment for that work to get
done, and then we're adding inthis therapy that is going to
offer new perspectives and newinsights and new ways of looking
(05:37):
for looking at things.
And what we know about EMDR isthat it works with the parts of
our brain that already arefocused on adaptive learning,
and so we want to take thisneuroplasticity and say, okay,
let's learn some new adaptiveways of seeing this trauma and
processing this trauma andcoping with this distress.
Michaela (05:57):
Yes, I love that, and so we're working on the details
of how to, you know, implementall the things the best way so
that people can have it coveredby their insurance.
In an ideal situation,insurance would cover both of
these things to be happeningsimultaneously.
That's not always the case, um.
So we have big hopes that youknow, trying to improve the way
(06:23):
that these services are providedto clients so that they can get
the most progress possible.
The other thing that we're goingto be offering is transcranial
magnetic stimulation, and sowe're super excited to be
offering this as a part of ourrepertoire, if you will, because
(06:48):
, you know, we know thatmedication only gets a lot of
people so far, and the moremedications that we try, the
more likely or the less likely aperson is going to respond to
those treatments, and so we wantto be offering all of the
options to people so that theycan get the best chance possible
(07:10):
of getting to recovery.
You know, not not just responseto treatment, but like
remission from symptoms Lookslike.
You know, I know you guys haveme whoever's been in care has
taken a PHQ-9,.
You know people who who arestarted at 20, maybe they come
down to a 10, but they're notgetting all the way down to a
(07:32):
two or a three because they'renot actually getting into
remission.
That's our goal we want to getpeople into remission so that
they can live their lives to thefullest and feel their best.
Laura (07:44):
Yeah, I love that, and so what's cool about TMS, or
transcranial magneticstimulation, is that it actually
treats the site on your brainthat is responsible for a lot of
the neuroactivity that would behappening in a non-depressed
person.
So we want to activate thoseneural networks and we want to
(08:05):
have them start doing, makingmore connections and being more
active, because in a depressedperson there's a lot less
activity there, and so we'restimulating that area to make
some activity happen so that wecan start feeling some relief
and maybe even remission.
And that's really the goal, andI think it's such a different
way of treating and it's non,you know, you don't have to be
(08:27):
taking medication.
There are some people I knowthat are able to not take
medication anymore after thistreatment, and then some people
stay on their medication and getthe treatment and find
themselves feeling much, muchbetter.
Michaela (08:41):
Yeah, and of course you know we're going to talk a
lot about TMS or Spravato topatients only because we want
them to know that those optionsare there.
We don't want these treatmentsare not right for everybody, and
so we want to make sure we'rejust offering the right services
to the right people.
It's not, you know, mandatorythat anybody get use these
(09:06):
services.
They're just options andthey're just tools in our
toolbox.
Laura (09:11):
Yeah, and what we also want to offer is not only
medication management for adults, but for kids and teens as well
, and therapy for kids and teensas well.
So right now, we are in theprocess of hiring a new
therapist who is going to beable to work with kids and teens
(09:32):
and be able to support entirefamilies who are struggling.
And you know I know, just as amom and as a provider like it's
not just one person in thefamily that's suffering when a
kid is suffering, the wholefamily is suffering, and so we
really want to impact thosedynamics.
Michaela (09:51):
Absolutely.
Our new nurse practitioner,sarah, just started a couple of
weeks ago and she is taking newclients and she also does some
psychotherapy.
She's following the?
Um the seven week psychotherapycourse that I created for
providers Um, it helps them tolearn more like help.
(10:13):
She's helping clients um learnmore about the nervous system,
what's going on in their bodies?
Um, she's helping providecoping skills similar to the
things that we talk about onhere, like grounding skills and
nervous system regulation, andshe does some, and in that
there's some cognitivebehavioral therapy, and so the
(10:34):
goal is that we're providingthis service so that you know we
can help you transition intogetting into therapy.
Laura (10:42):
Yeah, and I love therapy and I love all the things that
we're doing.
I'm super excited about coreself.
I just think that our visionfor this practice is so much
bigger than any one place thatI've seen so far.
Right, we're offering all ofthese things in one place where
families can go to really findtrue healing and true relief
(11:04):
from suffering.
Michaela (11:04):
where families can go to really find true healing and
true relief from suffering, andI'm super excited to be part of
it.
Yes, I am too.
We're doing big things andwe're super excited about the
things that we're offering.
So, if you're interested inhearing more about our services,
we offer free 15-minuteconsultations.
We do only serve people thatare located in Arizona,
unfortunately, consultations wedo only serve people that are
(11:29):
located in Arizona,unfortunately.
But, yeah, schedule a free15-minute consultation with
Sarah or our therapist and learnmore about the services that we
offer and see if you'd be agood fit for what we're trying
to do here.
Which this kind of segues backto our conversation about
feelings, and I think it'sreally important to know.
(11:55):
One of the things that you saidis that when the kid is
struggling, everyone else in thehouse is struggling, and I
think that this is so importantbecause I think that this speaks
volumes to where we can helppeople, because right now and I
think it's Gerber Mate that saidthat this, so I'm stealing that
from him a little bit but thefeelings of the child take over
(12:17):
and consume the feelings of theadults in the household, and
this is part of what we're goingto talk about today, and we'll
get into the nitty gritty of why.
This is part of what we're goingto talk about today, and we'll
get into the nitty gritty of whythis is happening and how we
can stop this from being thescript that happens in your
household as well.
So we were talking.
You asked me what are feelings,and we were talking about this
(12:40):
a little bit before we started.
And it's an internal experienceor it's a subjective experience
that we're having inside of usabout the different things that
are happening around us.
So it's a response tosituations or events, and I
think that feelings areinformative, right?
(13:05):
I think that feelings areinformative, right.
They're based on what are ourmorals, what are our values,
what are the things that matterto us, and they're giving these
feelings, are giving usinformation in that situation.
Laura (13:19):
Yeah, so I love that you added into like our personal
experience when it comes to ourmorals and values and how those
shape our feelings.
Like, not everybody's feelingsare the same right, so I might
not feel the same way about asituation that you feel about,
but that doesn't make either oneof our feelings any less valid.
So feelings as a response tostimuli, a response to our
(13:43):
environment, like you said,what's going on around us is
going to impact the way that ournervous system kind of responds
and reacts in that situation.
So our nervous system is goingto send us information and that
information is in the form ofoften either like a bodily
(14:05):
sensation or an internal emotion, and those internal emotions
are providing us withinformation about so that we can
say, ok, what am I supposed todo with this?
What am I supposed to do next?
Is this something that's goodfor me or bad for me?
Is this something that's safeor is this something that's
dangerous?
Is this something that I needto act on?
(14:26):
And I tell clients all the timethat, like, feelings are not
problems to solve.
We don't always have to act onthem, but a lot of the time we
do, we think that we do.
Michaela (14:37):
I like that you always say feelings are not facts?
Laura (14:41):
No, they're not facts, but they can be real, right.
So like they tell us somethingthat's like real and true for
our internal experience, butit's a subjective experience,
it's not objective, right?
So just because we're havingthat feeling doesn't mean that
it's an objective fact thatsomething bad is happening or
(15:01):
that something bad is going tohappen.
Michaela (15:03):
Correct and I think of the best example I'm sure I
could.
I just thought of like fivedifferent examples, but I think
like one of the examples thatcame to my mind is like your kid
, right, and they're having ameltdown and it's over the
dumbest thing in the entireworld, and you're like just just
get over it, like this isstupid.
(15:23):
You don't like in your brain,in your adult brain, you're like
I don't understand what isgoing on.
For you Like why is thishappening?
Right, and it's like, well,that's because it's not your
subjective experience.
Like that thing, that toy, that, that food, whatever it is, was
a big deal to that, thatindividual.
(15:45):
That their their subjectiveexperiences, this is important
to them.
They don't know anythingdifferent.
Laura (15:52):
They don't, and we all have our worst day, right.
So everybody has a one and a 10, like a level one upset and a
level 10 upset, and my level 10upset might be a lot different
than a three-year-old's level 10upset, but for that
three-year-old it could quitepossibly be the worst thing
that's ever happened to them.
Right, like they don't, theyhaven't had a lot of experiences
(16:15):
, so they don't have a lot ofcontext to turn around and say
like, oh, this will pass Forthem, this is the biggest thing
in the world and this issomething that is an emergency
and that isn't tolerable.
That's something that theycan't handle and everyone needs
to be there to support them inthat moment.
Michaela (16:33):
Right.
Well, I think that if you thinkabout it, littles they view the
world in now or not now.
They don't understand fiveminutes, they don't understand
time in the way that weunderstand time.
And so if you're like, hey,it's fine, you're just going to
get that later, they're like I'mnever getting that thing ever
(16:53):
again.
It's lost, it's gone forever.
Laura (16:55):
My world is ending, right and object permanence.
If they don't see it, itdoesn't exist.
And so if we take somethingaway from them that we're you
know, or if we disappear, if wego away, they think that we're
gone forever.
They don't understand, they'renot.
Their brains don't have as muchpower as we do yet because our
as adults, like we have a lot ofcontext and we have information
(17:18):
.
Like kids have content withoutcontext and so it's very, very
distressing to them whensomething small happens or
something small to us, like,because they can't process that
information.
It's too much, it's tooadvanced for them.
It's like I was I read thisanalogy one time where it was
(17:41):
like you know, a giant wolf, youknow, runs through town and
starts eating kids and you knowall this stuff.
And like if we were readingthis story, we would think, oh
my gosh, like that's, that'scrazy, right, like that's the
worst thing, like this is reallydangerous.
But when you really when yourealize that it's like a Bugs
(18:01):
Bunny cartoon, then the contextof the story changes and you
don't react the same way.
But with little kids, like thecontent is all they have.
They don't have the context ofthe fact that it's just a
pretend thing, or the fact thatit's you know just five minutes
from now, or that things willcome back Like they don't have
that context, so they can't likeshift their emotions the same
(18:23):
as quickly as we could, right?
Michaela (18:26):
Well, and they often react off of the first thing
that they hear, which isoftentimes no, right, right,
right.
The first thing that we say isno, we don't say yes, but you
can have ice cream after dinner.
The first thing we say is no,you can't have ice cream.
You haven't eaten dinner yet.
Laura (18:46):
Right, that's such a good point, the presentation matters
.
Like no to a kid feels likerejection.
Like it feels like I thinkabout this example sometimes,
like a little kid running,running up to their mom and
saying like look, I made yousomething.
And then the mom saying like goaway, I don't care, right, like
that's rejection, that hurts somuch.
(19:07):
And so when that happens, whena kid comes up and says hey, can
I have this?
They're so excited, right, andthen we say no, like we don't
want you to have that, likethat's bad.
We're saying they're bad, right, we're not saying that, but
they feel that they feel likeyou've just rained on their
parade For sure.
Michaela (19:28):
Well, and I think about kids and big feelings and
a lot of times, you know, thething that I hear the most,
that's distressing for parents,is anger.
Right, they're just so, they'reirritable, they're angry,
they're, you know, hard toreason with right and that can
(19:50):
be really challenging because,you know, when we grew up, there
was a lot of command andcontrol.
Right Like jump, I say jump,you jump.
If I say you know, if I say dothis, you command and control.
Right Like jump, I say jump,you jump.
If I say you know, if I say dothis, you go, do it.
Right, Like there's afear-based incentive to listen.
Right, and you know, maybeyou're not trying to do that,
(20:11):
but you still have it ingrainedin you that, like, when I say
something, my kids should listento me, and so that that mis
connection is there.
Right, Because we're notbuilding fear in our kids.
Now we're a lot of times we'retrying to build connection and
foster those things and we'retrying to, you know, have this
(20:31):
good balance parenting, butwe're still lost in this idea
that kids should do what they'resupposed, like what you tell
them to do, and then, like, theyrespond in anger and then we
get angry because we we'refrustrated and we feel helpless.
We don't know how to get themto do the thing that they're
supposed to do.
We just want it to go easy.
Laura (20:52):
Yeah, that is such a helpless feeling too when you
are trying to get your kid to dosomething and they're not doing
the thing you want and youdon't have time and you know,
maybe you're in public andthey're having a meltdown or you
know that feeling ofhelplessness like I can really
relate to that as a parent andthe thing is, controlling my kid
in that moment is a way to copewith my feeling of helplessness
(21:15):
, right.
So it's not even about the kid,that's about me.
Not feeling helpless, Like thecontrol that I'm exerting over
the child is actually a copingskill.
Michaela (21:27):
Yeah, I mean, if you're in public and your kid is
acting a fool, you're likeembarrassed, you're like I want
this to be over.
Like people must think I'm aterrible parent, like that's all
about.
Our own internal experience ofthe situation has nothing to do
with the kid, with what the kidis actually doing.
Laura (21:47):
Yeah, and you know it's so hard to not only deal with
our own feelings but it's hardto feel.
It's hard to deal with our kidsdistress, like when, like what
you were saying about you knowparents coming to you saying,
like my kid's angry, they'reirritable, they're distressed.
It's so hard for us to tolerateother people's distress,
especially when it's our kids.
(22:07):
We just want them to be okay,right, we just want them to be
happy.
And so if you grew up in a homewhere you know there was too
like, maybe there was too muchemphasis on being okay all the
time, Like if you weren'tallowed to feel feelings, if you
weren't allowed to havedistress like, then you might
not be able to tolerate otherpeople's distress today.
Michaela (22:31):
Absolutely, and I think in that you're like that's
not fair.
I never got to deal with my.
I have feelings when I was akid.
You don't get to have feelingslike that's like nope, yeah.
Laura (22:45):
I think that's so funny because that is the internal
narrative.
Right?
The internal narrative is if Ididn't get it, you don't get it,
and because that's not fair orbecause that's like an affront
to me, that's like saying thatwhat I had wasn't good enough
and I don't like the way thatfeels.
So I can't face my ownexperience of having, you know,
(23:06):
not been able to process myemotions or not be able to like
share my subjective experience,not be acknowledged.
I can't admit that I wasn'tacknowledged, so I can't have
you be acknowledged, becausethat would be saying that that's
something that you deserve andthat means that I deserved it,
but I didn't get it.
And that's too big and that'stoo emotional for me.
That's a lot.
Michaela (23:28):
I know I mean and I think, like you're going to sit
there and go well, I didn'tthink any of those things.
But that is the internalexperience of it all.
You know, when you really sitdown and look at it, it's like
we're trying to correct thethings that happened to us.
Having kids is bringing up allthe things that you dealt with
(23:56):
as a kid yourself things thatyou dealt with as a kid yourself
, and now we we bring up thepast, every single day, that
we're interacting with our kid,yeah.
So what do we do about that?
How do we not let ourselves,let our kids or the people
(24:19):
around us maybe it's not a kid,maybe it's another adult that
doesn't have good emotionalregulation?
How do we help ourselvessurvive that and have a
different outcome where we'renot just getting in distress and
letting our child's distressrun the household?
Laura (24:37):
I think, yeah, this applies absolutely not just for
kids, like this applies to otheradults in the house or other
adults in your life, like anyrelationship that you're in.
If that other person is indistress, like it's really
difficult for you to toleratethat distress and to be calm
when they're not okay.
Like I always say, you have tobe okay even though other people
(24:59):
around you are not okay, andthat's really hard to do.
It's one thing that's importantto do is recognize that you are
separate from them, like theyare not you, you are not them.
You are a fully separate,autonomous person that can have
your own experience, and so arethey.
So they are a fully separate,autonomous person that can have
(25:21):
their own experience, and thatdoesn't say anything about you
and that doesn't mean anythingfor you.
So that sense of separatenessbetween you and the other person
is really important when you'retrying to tolerate their big
feelings.
Michaela (25:37):
Yeah, that's fair, it doesn't mean anything about me,
and I think that, like, it'sautomatic to go on the defensive
, especially if it's likeanother adult or like a partner
or whatever.
Like, I'm going to go on thedefensive because as soon as you
said that thing, now I'mautomatically thinking that I'm
(25:57):
I'm bad or I'm in trouble andI'm like no, I can't.
That's not tolerable to me, soI'm going to go on the defensive
, which happens a lot of times,and this is one of the things I
was going to say about kids.
Anger is oftentimes a secondaryemotion and I think that this is
really important because wewere often trying to solve the
problem of anger, of behaviors,of throwing things, of not
(26:21):
saying sorry, of, you know,being really upset about a
situation and then not behavingin the way that we're like is,
like you know, like the societalnorm, and I think that, like,
when we take a step back and wego, what's the actual problem?
Why is this kid acting angry?
And you'll, a lot of times,find that there's a reason
(26:46):
that's outside of just simpleanger.
Right, anger can be a primaryemotion too, but for the most
part, like you're, there's oftenthis underlying thing that is
more vulnerable, right, like youknow, we talk about defense
against attachment.
We talk about, you know, my, ifI feel anxious, that's
vulnerable.
If I tell people that I feelnervous, like I'm going to, I'm
(27:08):
at risk of being judged, I'm at,you know, whatever.
So you know we, it feels morecomfortable and safe to be angry
than it does to be anxious ornervous or guilty.
Laura (27:21):
Mm-hmm, yeah, or sad, or rejected, and anger is often a
more acceptable feeling from asociety perspective, like,
socially, anger is moreacceptable than you know sadness
or fear.
If I go to my you know happyhour or whatever, and I'm like I
(27:43):
just feel so fearful todayabout this, like that's really
really vulnerable and people getuncomfortable.
But if I was like I'm so angryabout this, people would be like
, yeah, I'd be angry too.
Right, so, like you can, peoplewill co-sign on your rage, but
what they don't know how to dois be with you in your fear or
your vulnerability.
Right, because they don't knowhow to handle their own Right.
(28:06):
Exactly, we don't know how tohandle it because it's hard and
you know one way to.
One other thing that I recommendto people to know you know
about feelings is, in order totolerate big feelings, we have
to recognize that we don't haveto act on them.
Right, we can express ouremotions without acting them out
.
We can express them indifferent ways, like through
(28:28):
journaling, or through talkingwith a friend, or even, you know
, sending yourself a voice memo,like talking through it
yourself, like out loud, orwriting like notes on your phone
, or like bullet points orsomething like that, just to
kind of move through what you'refeeling in that moment and just
like get it out of your headand kind of not have to ruminate
on it.
So those things can be reallyhelpful too.
Michaela (28:50):
Yeah, I like that.
The other thing that we I talka lot about is you know we can
be okay even in the midst ofchaos, and I use a container a
lot to help support people.
It's like you can put that intoyour container.
You know, whatever thatcontainer looks like, you can
you know whether it's a filecabinet or like a bunch of jars
(29:13):
or whatever it is.
You can put it into a containerand you can let it be there and
you can be safe and you can beokay Even in the midst of chaos.
I learned that from you, oh.
Laura (29:25):
I'm like oh, my container is this purple Tupperware bin
that I have in my office.
I can recognize a container.
I love a container.
I also love the idea ofrecognizing that you can be okay
in the midst of chaos by justnoticing like that, even though
all of this stuff is happeningaround you, you are not going to
(29:46):
die.
Like there are actual so I justpreface this with there are
actual emergencies, there arelife and death situations.
That's not what I'm talkingabout here, like I'm talking
about using coping skills todeal with big emotions that are
not actually reflective of alife threat, and so discerning
between a life threat andsomething that is, you know,
(30:09):
difficult is actually a reallyimportant skill.
You have to be able torecognize that your life is not
in danger, and when you canrecognize that, you get an
internal sense of safety.
That internal sense of safetycan coat all those feelings with
some soothing sense of relief.
Michaela (30:31):
Yes, I love that.
I think that's such a good wayto look at things.
A good way to look at things.
So we've talked about whatemotions are and we've talked
about some of the ways to dealwith them.
So far.
What?
Why do you think it's so?
What other reasons do you thinkthat it's so hard to deal with
(30:51):
feelings?
What?
Why?
What else comes up for you?
Laura (30:55):
Well, if you didn't really have someone in childhood
who, like, reflected yourfeelings back, like if when you
had a feeling that was importantto you or you had something
going on for you and you sharedit and you were rejected in that
feeling in childhood.
A lot of times we can becomephobic to those emotions because
(31:16):
we don't have what we need inchildhood.
A lot of times we can becomephobic to those emotions because
we don't have what we need inchildhood is co-regulation.
So if we never had thatco-regulation of a supportive
and safe other person, an adult,who can say, like it's okay to
feel this way, like yourfeelings are okay and safe,
we're going to be okay, we'llget through this together.
If you didn't have someone to dothat, but you really had
(31:37):
someone say, like it's not okayto be angry, like you need to
stop, or it's you know, stopcrying, you don't need to be sad
right now, like, or when youare sad, it makes me sad, you
know.
Or like don't be sad, becauseif you get upset like, I get
upset and you don't want mommyto be upset Right, like.
So when we, if we have adultsin our lives who don't
(31:58):
necessarily reflect our feelingsand don't necessarily
acknowledge them and give usthat safe space to experience
and process them, then we canbecome phobic and we're not
going to be able to know exactlyhow to deal with our feelings.
Michaela (32:12):
Sure, and I think that , like, it's not our intention
as parents to make these, say,these statements, and we're not
meaning what we're, what it like, we're not really meaning to
send that message Right.
And I find myself all the timestruggling with the right words
to say, right, like, because allthe wrong things come up.
(32:32):
Especially when you feel likehelpless in that situation, like
you just really don't know whatit is to get your kid to, to do
the thing or to understand whatyou're asking of them, can be
really hard to find the rightwords to say.
Laura (32:48):
It is really hard and I often just say you know, like
this is a really big thing, likeyou're going through a really
big emotion right now, you'reexperiencing something really
hard right now.
Or this is really hard for youor you don't want to do this.
You are, you know, you'rereflecting back.
You're just saying what they'redoing.
You're saying what they'refeeling, like you don't want to
(33:08):
go to bed right now.
You were having too much fun.
You don't want to stop doingthe thing that you were doing.
You don't want to.
You know, wash up for dinnerright now.
This is really hard for you tobe done playing with that game,
right?
So we're just reflecting back.
We don't have to solve it yeah,that's really insightful, I'm
(33:32):
going to use that and it'sreally hard.
Michaela (33:36):
Yeah, I think it's like you know, if I'm going to
be really honest, I'm thinkingabout my own, like a situation
that just happened right, wheremy kid chose not to do his
reading.
Like he's supposed to do 10minutes of reading every you
know, certain nights of the weekor whatever, and he really
didn't want to do his reading.
Like he's supposed to do 10minutes of reading every you
know, certain nights of the weekor whatever, and he really
(33:57):
didn't want to do it.
And you know, thinking aboutsaying like you really didn't
want to, you really don't wantto read.
Right now it still feelsunsettling to me because I still
didn't get him to do the thingand that's what's really hard,
because it's like you know, Ithink in that moment it's like I
feel like a failure.
Yeah, you know, and so like Iget that, like I get that that's
(34:18):
hard, but I think that thisreally does make sense because
you're helping them understandthat you understand them.
Laura (34:27):
Mm-hmm.
And when you understand themand you connect with them, you
can say follow up with, and wehave to do a little bit of this,
let's, instead of do 10 minutes, let's do three, and then we
can come back to it at adifferent time.
(34:48):
But we can say, like you reallydon't want to do this reading
right now.
I get that and that's okay notto want to, and we're still
going to do a little bit of itand even if they don't do any of
it, you're not a failure,because it's one day, it's one
moment, it's a snapshot in timeand it's not reflective of your
(35:09):
encompassing motherhood.
Right, it's a tough minute,sure.
Michaela (35:16):
Well, and I think that , like you know, inherently you
go to.
Well, this is what I felt likegoing to judging my like,
comparing myself to like maybewhat my husband could get him to
do Right, and then I have tothink back to like we have
different tactics, we havedifferent ways of parenting and
(35:36):
maybe I feel, like you know, weeach feel like our way is the
best or whatever, but it's likeI may not get the same results
because I'm not doing the samethings.
That's okay, you know, but Ithink that, like, in in the
moment, it's like you want to besuccessful, to show that, like
you're doing the right thingsand you can win Right.
(35:59):
I think that, like, we have tounderstand that, like the goal
isn't getting the kid to do thething now, it's the relationship
and it's emotional regulation.
And is he gonna fail firstgrade because he didn't read 200
(36:20):
minutes that month?
no, no, he's not so when we zoomout and we look at the big
picture, it's a lot easier to beforgiving.
Laura (36:30):
But in that moment I think it's like you want so
badly to win you know, yeah, Ido understand that, like we want
to be able to get them to dothe thing that they need to do,
because that will make us feellike we did it well, we did a
good job, right, right, there'snot a lot of times as moms or as
(36:53):
dads that we get to reallynotice like, hey, I did a good
job.
Just now, like, how often do Isay that to myself as a parent?
Almost never, right?
Maybe that's something that weneed to acknowledge more often.
Michaela (37:06):
For sure, and I think, unless we change this, the like
, the barometer right, like whatare we?
You know, like I think that thenew barometer should be like I
handled that really well, like Idid a good job connecting with
my kid and you know, I'm reallyproud of myself for that right
(37:27):
Like winning at getting the kidto to do what you told them to
do.
But I still think that, like Isaid before, those things are
very deeply ingrained in us aslike, and I think it's like we
want to be able to report backto the school that we did, we
did the best and that we are thebest parents you know, and it's
like I want to do that Right,but like, also, if I didn't, if
(37:51):
it doesn't happen, what's theworst thing that's going to
happen?
Laura (37:57):
Yeah, when we're thinking about parenting, we have to
separate ourselves from theoutcomes a little bit and focus
more on the connection and theeveryday, like lessons that
we're teaching our kids.
Are we teaching them to be kindto themselves?
Are we teaching them to respecttheir own bodies and their own
(38:20):
emotions, and are we teachingthem to respect themselves and
set boundaries?
Are we teaching them to respecttheir education and prioritize
work even when they don't wantto do it?
Are we teaching them that?
Or are we teaching them thatoutcomes are the only thing that
matters and that if you don'tdo this you're a failure and
that if you, you know, if youget good grades, then that means
(38:45):
that you're a good person?
Like, we want to kind of zoomout, like you said, and think
about what are we teaching themwhile we're teaching them?
Michaela (38:54):
Right, well, and why do you?
Why do we think that kids incollege, you know, have
breakdowns because they'reputting so much pressure on
themselves and they havethemselves set up like
unreasonable expectations forthemselves.
And, you know, as things getharder, we can't maintain all
(39:17):
the things and we can't beinvolved in all the things and
and be as successful as we werebefore.
And so we have these, you know,or or just like creating these
unrealistic expectations ofthemselves, and you know, then
they, that's what, that's whereanxiety comes from right, like
that's one of the sources ofanxiety is that they only
believe that their benefit is ifthey're succeeding, if they're
(39:41):
doing well, right, like that'sthe only way that they're good
enough.
Mm-hmm.
Laura (39:46):
We have to help ourselves and our kids notice that that's
not the only thing that matters, like we have inherent value
and we are good enough, even ifour outcomes aren't there.
We can try harder.
We can try something else, youknow, and sometimes people fail.
Sometimes you know they do faila class and they have to learn
(40:09):
and grow from that and work alittle bit harder next time and
maybe get a tutor and do.
I mean, there's like highschool kids or college kids that
are going through that too andrecognizing that they can't be a
part of all the different clubsand activities and also be
successful in their academicsand they have to make some hard
(40:30):
choices and sacrifices.
They have to learn how to dothat and that's okay.
It's important that we let themwork some of that out and not
rescue them all the time.
Right, and that's a hard thingto know when to rescue and when
not to rescue.
But when it comes to dealingwith big feelings and having
like big meltdowns, like wedon't need to save them from
(40:53):
those feelings, we can recognizethat those feelings are allowed
, they're valid and you know, wecan have those feelings, we can
express our feelings withoutacting them out, and so we can
do that by, like, if a kid isviolently acting out, right, we
can say to them like you know,this feeling is okay, this
behavior is not.
We can have these feelings andwe can talk about these feelings
(41:17):
and we can move through thesefeelings together.
We can't hurt each other, wecan't hurt ourselves, we can't
damage property, right.
So we can teach our kids how tobe emotionally intelligent and
emotionally literate when itcomes to identifying their
emotions and working throughthem in a more healthy and safe
way.
Michaela (41:35):
Yeah, and that teaching may not happen in the
moment when you're having theoutburst it likely happens later
, right?
But it's still a goodopportunity to help them learn
and grow from their feelings andalso know that, like you know,
it takes time.
They're going to keep havingthese outbursts until they learn
(41:56):
how to manage it, right, andyou're just setting good
boundaries and helping keep themsafe during that moment.
Laura (42:04):
And we have to help ourselves feel safe on the
inside in order to help themfeel safe on the inside.
That's good, that's a goodpoint, and that's true in
relationships too.
There's a lot of co-regulationin adult relationships, like we
can be that stable base for ourpartner when they're going
through a hard time too, bysaying I'm okay while you're not
(42:25):
okay, and I can be okay enoughfor the both of us and I'm here
with you.
Yeah, which can be reallychallenging, but it's actually
also really rewarding and cancreate further deepening of
connection between people.
Yeah, definitely so I thinkthat might be a good place to
(42:49):
leave it for today.
That might be a good place toleave it for today.
We have definitely got somegood ways to tolerate our big
feelings, and I really loved ourconversation earlier about core
self and I'm going to link tocore self in our show notes so
if anyone wants to take a lookat our website, they can.
And thank you so much forlistening to why Am I Like this.
(43:11):
If you like our show, pleaseleave us a rating and review on
your favorite podcast platform,follow the show and share it
with your friends.
This episode was written andproduced by me, Laura Wood and
Michaela Beaver.
Our theme song is Making EndsMeet by Thick as Thieves, and a
special thanks to Core Self,Benavieri Counseling and Active
Healing Psychiatric Services forsponsoring this show.
Hello and welcome to.
Why Am I Like this?
The podcast for those whodidn't get enough hugs as a
child?
I'm Laura Wood and I'm a traumatherapist.
Michaela (00:12):
And I'm Michaela Beaver.
I'm a psychiatric nursepractitioner.
Laura (00:17):
So, Michaela, why are we doing this podcast?
Michaela (00:21):
I am so glad you asked .
We want to help you understandyourself a bit better how the
things you learned aboutyourself and the world in
childhood are still affectingyou today.
We want to figure out why arewe like this, those random
things about ourselves that wemight wonder about, like why am
I so jumpy?
Why am I so anxious?
Why do I take everythingpersonally?
(00:41):
Why are my thoughts so negative?
Why do I feel like I have tofix everything all the time?
Laura (00:48):
Yes, and today we are talking about feelings.
We're talking about emotionstoday and we're going to try to
answer the following questionwhat are emotions, why is it so
hard to deal with them and howdo I learn to tolerate big
feelings them and how do I learnto tolerate big feelings?
Michaela (01:04):
Let's start by introducing our new endeavor and
then we can get into today'stopic.
Yes, so Laura and I did a thingand we started a practice
together and it's called CoreSelf, because we want to help
(01:25):
you understand and get back toyou know, your core self, and I
think that you know.
At Core Self, our goals are toreally help ourselves align with
both the medication managementside of things and the
psychotherapy side of things andthe psychotherapy side of
things, and helping peoplemanage all sorts of you know
(01:49):
different things like depression, anxiety and ADHD, all the
things.
Laura (01:58):
Yeah.
So we want to join forces withyou know, not just one solution.
We want to join forces and havemultiple solutions that are new
and old and, you know,innovative and just
non-traditional solutions toproblems that we've been facing
(02:19):
for a long time.
Like, one of the biggest thingsthat I think we're going to be
focused on treating istreatment-resistant depression,
and treatment-resistantdepression is a really, really
hard thing to deal with, whereyou know you've tried medicine
after medicine after medicine,you've tried therapy, you've
tried all these things that arejust not working, or you still
(02:41):
have that lull of like.
I just feel, you know, likenumb, or I feel dead inside, or
I feel like I'm not, you know,really engaged in my life fully,
I'm not experiencing thebrightness of life that I should
be, and for those people whoare experiencing treatment
resistant depression, it reallyis like a dark cloud over every
(03:02):
second of every day, and we wantto help those people.
And so what are we offering todo that?
Michaela (03:09):
Well, I'm so glad you asked Traditional medication
management.
Of course, right, we want to.
We don't want to throw out theold things that are helpful, but
we want to also add in some newthings.
And so, you know, we'reoffering Spravato, which is a
(03:33):
treatment that's covered byinsurance and it's kind of like
the you know people.
It's called Esketamine and it'sin the ketamine family.
It is a nasal spray that isgiven in the office under
supervision of a provider, andpeople are in the office for two
(03:57):
hours being monitored and it'shelping to use the glutamate
pathway and it is helping to,you know, and our hope is that
it's going to be used alongsidepsychotherapy and specifically
an EMDR therapy that Laura hascreated so that people can do
(04:21):
trauma work alongside using thismedication, so that we can see
the best results.
Laura (04:29):
Yeah, we don't want to just use one thing or the other.
Right, we believe that all ofthese treatments work well
together and there is a tiny bitof research starting to form,
because we've just been startingto use these treatments and we
find that they're so effective.
But there's a tiny bit ofresearch about utilizing therapy
(04:49):
in conjunction with thesetreatments, and we want to be
part of that group.
We want to start reallyunderstanding how EMDR therapy
in conjunction with Spravatotreatments can support recovery,
because one thing we know aboutesketamine treatments is that
it helps our brains improve ourneuroplasticity.
It sort of activates ourneuroplasticity, I should say,
(05:14):
and what we need in traumahealing is neuroplasticity.
We need that safety in the room, which is why we're in, you
know, in office.
We are monitored by providers.
We're creating a safeenvironment for that work to get
done, and then we're adding inthis therapy that is going to
offer new perspectives and newinsights and new ways of looking
(05:37):
for looking at things.
And what we know about EMDR isthat it works with the parts of
our brain that already arefocused on adaptive learning,
and so we want to take thisneuroplasticity and say, okay,
let's learn some new adaptiveways of seeing this trauma and
processing this trauma andcoping with this distress.
Michaela (05:57):
Yes, I love that, and so we're working on the details
of how to, you know, implementall the things the best way so
that people can have it coveredby their insurance.
In an ideal situation,insurance would cover both of
these things to be happeningsimultaneously.
That's not always the case, um.
So we have big hopes that youknow, trying to improve the way
(06:23):
that these services are providedto clients so that they can get
the most progress possible.
The other thing that we're goingto be offering is transcranial
magnetic stimulation, and sowe're super excited to be
offering this as a part of ourrepertoire, if you will, because
(06:48):
, you know, we know thatmedication only gets a lot of
people so far, and the moremedications that we try, the
more likely or the less likely aperson is going to respond to
those treatments, and so we wantto be offering all of the
options to people so that theycan get the best chance possible
(07:10):
of getting to recovery.
You know, not not just responseto treatment, but like
remission from symptoms Lookslike.
You know, I know you guys haveme whoever's been in care has
taken a PHQ-9,.
You know people who who arestarted at 20, maybe they come
down to a 10, but they're notgetting all the way down to a
(07:32):
two or a three because they'renot actually getting into
remission.
That's our goal we want to getpeople into remission so that
they can live their lives to thefullest and feel their best.
Laura (07:44):
Yeah, I love that, and so what's cool about TMS, or
transcranial magneticstimulation, is that it actually
treats the site on your brainthat is responsible for a lot of
the neuroactivity that would behappening in a non-depressed
person.
So we want to activate thoseneural networks and we want to
(08:05):
have them start doing, makingmore connections and being more
active, because in a depressedperson there's a lot less
activity there, and so we'restimulating that area to make
some activity happen so that wecan start feeling some relief
and maybe even remission.
And that's really the goal, andI think it's such a different
way of treating and it's non,you know, you don't have to be
(08:27):
taking medication.
There are some people I knowthat are able to not take
medication anymore after thistreatment, and then some people
stay on their medication and getthe treatment and find
themselves feeling much, muchbetter.
Michaela (08:41):
Yeah, and of course you know we're going to talk a
lot about TMS or Spravato topatients only because we want
them to know that those optionsare there.
We don't want these treatmentsare not right for everybody, and
so we want to make sure we'rejust offering the right services
to the right people.
It's not, you know, mandatorythat anybody get use these
(09:06):
services.
They're just options andthey're just tools in our
toolbox.
Laura (09:11):
Yeah, and what we also want to offer is not only
medication management for adults, but for kids and teens as well
, and therapy for kids and teensas well.
So right now, we are in theprocess of hiring a new
therapist who is going to beable to work with kids and teens
(09:32):
and be able to support entirefamilies who are struggling.
And you know I know, just as amom and as a provider like it's
not just one person in thefamily that's suffering when a
kid is suffering, the wholefamily is suffering, and so we
really want to impact thosedynamics.
Michaela (09:51):
Absolutely.
Our new nurse practitioner,sarah, just started a couple of
weeks ago and she is taking newclients and she also does some
psychotherapy.
She's following the?
Um the seven week psychotherapycourse that I created for
providers Um, it helps them tolearn more like help.
(10:13):
She's helping clients um learnmore about the nervous system,
what's going on in their bodies?
Um, she's helping providecoping skills similar to the
things that we talk about onhere, like grounding skills and
nervous system regulation, andshe does some, and in that
there's some cognitivebehavioral therapy, and so the
(10:34):
goal is that we're providingthis service so that you know we
can help you transition intogetting into therapy.
Laura (10:42):
Yeah, and I love therapy and I love all the things that
we're doing.
I'm super excited about coreself.
I just think that our visionfor this practice is so much
bigger than any one place thatI've seen so far.
Right, we're offering all ofthese things in one place where
families can go to really findtrue healing and true relief
(11:04):
from suffering.
Michaela (11:04):
where families can go to really find true healing and
true relief from suffering, andI'm super excited to be part of
it.
Yes, I am too.
We're doing big things andwe're super excited about the
things that we're offering.
So, if you're interested inhearing more about our services,
we offer free 15-minuteconsultations.
We do only serve people thatare located in Arizona,
unfortunately, consultations wedo only serve people that are
(11:29):
located in Arizona,unfortunately.
But, yeah, schedule a free15-minute consultation with
Sarah or our therapist and learnmore about the services that we
offer and see if you'd be agood fit for what we're trying
to do here.
Which this kind of segues backto our conversation about
feelings, and I think it'sreally important to know.
(11:55):
One of the things that you saidis that when the kid is
struggling, everyone else in thehouse is struggling, and I
think that this is so importantbecause I think that this speaks
volumes to where we can helppeople, because right now and I
think it's Gerber Mate that saidthat this, so I'm stealing that
from him a little bit but thefeelings of the child take over
(12:17):
and consume the feelings of theadults in the household, and
this is part of what we're goingto talk about today, and we'll
get into the nitty gritty of why.
This is part of what we're goingto talk about today, and we'll
get into the nitty gritty of whythis is happening and how we
can stop this from being thescript that happens in your
household as well.
So we were talking.
You asked me what are feelings,and we were talking about this
(12:40):
a little bit before we started.
And it's an internal experienceor it's a subjective experience
that we're having inside of usabout the different things that
are happening around us.
So it's a response tosituations or events, and I
think that feelings areinformative, right?
(13:05):
I think that feelings areinformative, right.
They're based on what are ourmorals, what are our values,
what are the things that matterto us, and they're giving these
feelings, are giving usinformation in that situation.
Laura (13:19):
Yeah, so I love that you added into like our personal
experience when it comes to ourmorals and values and how those
shape our feelings.
Like, not everybody's feelingsare the same right, so I might
not feel the same way about asituation that you feel about,
but that doesn't make either oneof our feelings any less valid.
So feelings as a response tostimuli, a response to our
(13:43):
environment, like you said,what's going on around us is
going to impact the way that ournervous system kind of responds
and reacts in that situation.
So our nervous system is goingto send us information and that
information is in the form ofoften either like a bodily
(14:05):
sensation or an internal emotion, and those internal emotions
are providing us withinformation about so that we can
say, ok, what am I supposed todo with this?
What am I supposed to do next?
Is this something that's goodfor me or bad for me?
Is this something that's safeor is this something that's
dangerous?
Is this something that I needto act on?
(14:26):
And I tell clients all the timethat, like, feelings are not
problems to solve.
We don't always have to act onthem, but a lot of the time we
do, we think that we do.
Michaela (14:37):
I like that you always say feelings are not facts?
Laura (14:41):
No, they're not facts, but they can be real, right.
So like they tell us somethingthat's like real and true for
our internal experience, butit's a subjective experience,
it's not objective, right?
So just because we're havingthat feeling doesn't mean that
it's an objective fact thatsomething bad is happening or
(15:01):
that something bad is going tohappen.
Michaela (15:03):
Correct and I think of the best example I'm sure I
could.
I just thought of like fivedifferent examples, but I think
like one of the examples thatcame to my mind is like your kid
, right, and they're having ameltdown and it's over the
dumbest thing in the entireworld, and you're like just just
get over it, like this isstupid.
(15:23):
You don't like in your brain,in your adult brain, you're like
I don't understand what isgoing on.
For you Like why is thishappening?
Right, and it's like, well,that's because it's not your
subjective experience.
Like that thing, that toy, that, that food, whatever it is, was
a big deal to that, thatindividual.
(15:45):
That their their subjectiveexperiences, this is important
to them.
They don't know anythingdifferent.
Laura (15:52):
They don't, and we all have our worst day, right.
So everybody has a one and a 10, like a level one upset and a
level 10 upset, and my level 10upset might be a lot different
than a three-year-old's level 10upset, but for that
three-year-old it could quitepossibly be the worst thing
that's ever happened to them.
Right, like they don't, theyhaven't had a lot of experiences
(16:15):
, so they don't have a lot ofcontext to turn around and say
like, oh, this will pass Forthem, this is the biggest thing
in the world and this issomething that is an emergency
and that isn't tolerable.
That's something that theycan't handle and everyone needs
to be there to support them inthat moment.
Michaela (16:33):
Right.
Well, I think that if you thinkabout it, littles they view the
world in now or not now.
They don't understand fiveminutes, they don't understand
time in the way that weunderstand time.
And so if you're like, hey,it's fine, you're just going to
get that later, they're like I'mnever getting that thing ever
(16:53):
again.
It's lost, it's gone forever.
Laura (16:55):
My world is ending, right and object permanence.
If they don't see it, itdoesn't exist.
And so if we take somethingaway from them that we're you
know, or if we disappear, if wego away, they think that we're
gone forever.
They don't understand, they'renot.
Their brains don't have as muchpower as we do yet because our
as adults, like we have a lot ofcontext and we have information
(17:18):
.
Like kids have content withoutcontext and so it's very, very
distressing to them whensomething small happens or
something small to us, like,because they can't process that
information.
It's too much, it's tooadvanced for them.
It's like I was I read thisanalogy one time where it was
(17:41):
like you know, a giant wolf, youknow, runs through town and
starts eating kids and you knowall this stuff.
And like if we were readingthis story, we would think, oh
my gosh, like that's, that'scrazy, right, like that's the
worst thing, like this is reallydangerous.
But when you really when yourealize that it's like a Bugs
(18:01):
Bunny cartoon, then the contextof the story changes and you
don't react the same way.
But with little kids, like thecontent is all they have.
They don't have the context ofthe fact that it's just a
pretend thing, or the fact thatit's you know just five minutes
from now, or that things willcome back Like they don't have
that context, so they can't likeshift their emotions the same
(18:23):
as quickly as we could, right?
Michaela (18:26):
Well, and they often react off of the first thing
that they hear, which isoftentimes no, right, right,
right.
The first thing that we say isno, we don't say yes, but you
can have ice cream after dinner.
The first thing we say is no,you can't have ice cream.
You haven't eaten dinner yet.
Laura (18:46):
Right, that's such a good point, the presentation matters
.
Like no to a kid feels likerejection.
Like it feels like I thinkabout this example sometimes,
like a little kid running,running up to their mom and
saying like look, I made yousomething.
And then the mom saying like goaway, I don't care, right, like
that's rejection, that hurts somuch.
(19:07):
And so when that happens, whena kid comes up and says hey, can
I have this?
They're so excited, right, andthen we say no, like we don't
want you to have that, likethat's bad.
We're saying they're bad, right, we're not saying that, but
they feel that they feel likeyou've just rained on their
parade For sure.
Michaela (19:28):
Well, and I think about kids and big feelings and
a lot of times, you know, thething that I hear the most,
that's distressing for parents,is anger.
Right, they're just so, they'reirritable, they're angry,
they're, you know, hard toreason with right and that can
(19:50):
be really challenging because,you know, when we grew up, there
was a lot of command andcontrol.
Right Like jump, I say jump,you jump.
If I say you know, if I say dothis, you command and control.
Right Like jump, I say jump,you jump.
If I say you know, if I say dothis, you go, do it.
Right, Like there's afear-based incentive to listen.
Right, and you know, maybeyou're not trying to do that,
(20:11):
but you still have it ingrainedin you that, like, when I say
something, my kids should listento me, and so that that mis
connection is there.
Right, Because we're notbuilding fear in our kids.
Now we're a lot of times we'retrying to build connection and
foster those things and we'retrying to, you know, have this
(20:31):
good balance parenting, butwe're still lost in this idea
that kids should do what they'resupposed, like what you tell
them to do, and then, like, theyrespond in anger and then we
get angry because we we'refrustrated and we feel helpless.
We don't know how to get themto do the thing that they're
supposed to do.
We just want it to go easy.
Laura (20:52):
Yeah, that is such a helpless feeling too when you
are trying to get your kid to dosomething and they're not doing
the thing you want and youdon't have time and you know,
maybe you're in public andthey're having a meltdown or you
know that feeling ofhelplessness like I can really
relate to that as a parent andthe thing is, controlling my kid
in that moment is a way to copewith my feeling of helplessness
(21:15):
, right.
So it's not even about the kid,that's about me.
Not feeling helpless, Like thecontrol that I'm exerting over
the child is actually a copingskill.
Michaela (21:27):
Yeah, I mean, if you're in public and your kid is
acting a fool, you're likeembarrassed, you're like I want
this to be over.
Like people must think I'm aterrible parent, like that's all
about.
Our own internal experience ofthe situation has nothing to do
with the kid, with what the kidis actually doing.
Laura (21:47):
Yeah, and you know it's so hard to not only deal with
our own feelings but it's hardto feel.
It's hard to deal with our kidsdistress, like when, like what
you were saying about you knowparents coming to you saying,
like my kid's angry, they'reirritable, they're distressed.
It's so hard for us to tolerateother people's distress,
especially when it's our kids.
(22:07):
We just want them to be okay,right, we just want them to be
happy.
And so if you grew up in a homewhere you know there was too
like, maybe there was too muchemphasis on being okay all the
time, Like if you weren'tallowed to feel feelings, if you
weren't allowed to havedistress like, then you might
not be able to tolerate otherpeople's distress today.
Michaela (22:31):
Absolutely, and I think in that you're like that's
not fair.
I never got to deal with my.
I have feelings when I was akid.
You don't get to have feelingslike that's like nope, yeah.
Laura (22:45):
I think that's so funny because that is the internal
narrative.
Right?
The internal narrative is if Ididn't get it, you don't get it,
and because that's not fair orbecause that's like an affront
to me, that's like saying thatwhat I had wasn't good enough
and I don't like the way thatfeels.
So I can't face my ownexperience of having, you know,
(23:06):
not been able to process myemotions or not be able to like
share my subjective experience,not be acknowledged.
I can't admit that I wasn'tacknowledged, so I can't have
you be acknowledged, becausethat would be saying that that's
something that you deserve andthat means that I deserved it,
but I didn't get it.
And that's too big and that'stoo emotional for me.
That's a lot.
Michaela (23:28):
I know I mean and I think, like you're going to sit
there and go well, I didn'tthink any of those things.
But that is the internalexperience of it all.
You know, when you really sitdown and look at it, it's like
we're trying to correct thethings that happened to us.
Having kids is bringing up allthe things that you dealt with
(23:56):
as a kid yourself things thatyou dealt with as a kid yourself
, and now we we bring up thepast, every single day, that
we're interacting with our kid,yeah.
So what do we do about that?
How do we not let ourselves,let our kids or the people
(24:19):
around us maybe it's not a kid,maybe it's another adult that
doesn't have good emotionalregulation?
How do we help ourselvessurvive that and have a
different outcome where we'renot just getting in distress and
letting our child's distressrun the household?
Laura (24:37):
I think, yeah, this applies absolutely not just for
kids, like this applies to otheradults in the house or other
adults in your life, like anyrelationship that you're in.
If that other person is indistress, like it's really
difficult for you to toleratethat distress and to be calm
when they're not okay.
Like I always say, you have tobe okay even though other people
(24:59):
around you are not okay, andthat's really hard to do.
It's one thing that's importantto do is recognize that you are
separate from them, like theyare not you, you are not them.
You are a fully separate,autonomous person that can have
your own experience, and so arethey.
So they are a fully separate,autonomous person that can have
(25:21):
their own experience, and thatdoesn't say anything about you
and that doesn't mean anythingfor you.
So that sense of separatenessbetween you and the other person
is really important when you'retrying to tolerate their big
feelings.
Michaela (25:37):
Yeah, that's fair, it doesn't mean anything about me,
and I think that, like, it'sautomatic to go on the defensive
, especially if it's likeanother adult or like a partner
or whatever.
Like, I'm going to go on thedefensive because as soon as you
said that thing, now I'mautomatically thinking that I'm
(25:57):
I'm bad or I'm in trouble andI'm like no, I can't.
That's not tolerable to me, soI'm going to go on the defensive
, which happens a lot of times,and this is one of the things I
was going to say about kids.
Anger is oftentimes a secondaryemotion and I think that this is
really important because wewere often trying to solve the
problem of anger, of behaviors,of throwing things, of not
(26:21):
saying sorry, of, you know,being really upset about a
situation and then not behavingin the way that we're like is,
like you know, like the societalnorm, and I think that, like,
when we take a step back and wego, what's the actual problem?
Why is this kid acting angry?
And you'll, a lot of times,find that there's a reason
(26:46):
that's outside of just simpleanger.
Right, anger can be a primaryemotion too, but for the most
part, like you're, there's oftenthis underlying thing that is
more vulnerable, right, like youknow, we talk about defense
against attachment.
We talk about, you know, my, ifI feel anxious, that's
vulnerable.
If I tell people that I feelnervous, like I'm going to, I'm
(27:08):
at risk of being judged, I'm at,you know, whatever.
So you know we, it feels morecomfortable and safe to be angry
than it does to be anxious ornervous or guilty.
Laura (27:21):
Mm-hmm, yeah, or sad, or rejected, and anger is often a
more acceptable feeling from asociety perspective, like,
socially, anger is moreacceptable than you know sadness
or fear.
If I go to my you know happyhour or whatever, and I'm like I
(27:43):
just feel so fearful todayabout this, like that's really
really vulnerable and people getuncomfortable.
But if I was like I'm so angryabout this, people would be like
, yeah, I'd be angry too.
Right, so, like you can, peoplewill co-sign on your rage, but
what they don't know how to dois be with you in your fear or
your vulnerability.
Right, because they don't knowhow to handle their own Right.
(28:06):
Exactly, we don't know how tohandle it because it's hard and
you know one way to.
One other thing that I recommendto people to know you know
about feelings is, in order totolerate big feelings, we have
to recognize that we don't haveto act on them.
Right, we can express ouremotions without acting them out
.
We can express them indifferent ways, like through
(28:28):
journaling, or through talkingwith a friend, or even, you know
, sending yourself a voice memo,like talking through it
yourself, like out loud, orwriting like notes on your phone
, or like bullet points orsomething like that, just to
kind of move through what you'refeeling in that moment and just
like get it out of your headand kind of not have to ruminate
on it.
So those things can be reallyhelpful too.
Michaela (28:50):
Yeah, I like that.
The other thing that we I talka lot about is you know we can
be okay even in the midst ofchaos, and I use a container a
lot to help support people.
It's like you can put that intoyour container.
You know, whatever thatcontainer looks like, you can
you know whether it's a filecabinet or like a bunch of jars
(29:13):
or whatever it is.
You can put it into a containerand you can let it be there and
you can be safe and you can beokay Even in the midst of chaos.
I learned that from you, oh.
Laura (29:25):
I'm like oh, my container is this purple Tupperware bin
that I have in my office.
I can recognize a container.
I love a container.
I also love the idea ofrecognizing that you can be okay
in the midst of chaos by justnoticing like that, even though
all of this stuff is happeningaround you, you are not going to
(29:46):
die.
Like there are actual so I justpreface this with there are
actual emergencies, there arelife and death situations.
That's not what I'm talkingabout here, like I'm talking
about using coping skills todeal with big emotions that are
not actually reflective of alife threat, and so discerning
between a life threat andsomething that is, you know,
(30:09):
difficult is actually a reallyimportant skill.
You have to be able torecognize that your life is not
in danger, and when you canrecognize that, you get an
internal sense of safety.
That internal sense of safetycan coat all those feelings with
some soothing sense of relief.
Michaela (30:31):
Yes, I love that.
I think that's such a good wayto look at things.
A good way to look at things.
So we've talked about whatemotions are and we've talked
about some of the ways to dealwith them.
So far.
What?
Why do you think it's so?
What other reasons do you thinkthat it's so hard to deal with
(30:51):
feelings?
What?
Why?
What else comes up for you?
Laura (30:55):
Well, if you didn't really have someone in childhood
who, like, reflected yourfeelings back, like if when you
had a feeling that was importantto you or you had something
going on for you and you sharedit and you were rejected in that
feeling in childhood.
A lot of times we can becomephobic to those emotions because
(31:16):
we don't have what we need inchildhood.
A lot of times we can becomephobic to those emotions because
we don't have what we need inchildhood is co-regulation.
So if we never had thatco-regulation of a supportive
and safe other person, an adult,who can say, like it's okay to
feel this way, like yourfeelings are okay and safe,
we're going to be okay, we'llget through this together.
If you didn't have someone to dothat, but you really had
(31:37):
someone say, like it's not okayto be angry, like you need to
stop, or it's you know, stopcrying, you don't need to be sad
right now, like, or when youare sad, it makes me sad, you
know.
Or like don't be sad, becauseif you get upset like, I get
upset and you don't want mommyto be upset Right, like.
So when we, if we have adultsin our lives who don't
(31:58):
necessarily reflect our feelingsand don't necessarily
acknowledge them and give usthat safe space to experience
and process them, then we canbecome phobic and we're not
going to be able to know exactlyhow to deal with our feelings.
Michaela (32:12):
Sure, and I think that , like, it's not our intention
as parents to make these, say,these statements, and we're not
meaning what we're, what it like, we're not really meaning to
send that message Right.
And I find myself all the timestruggling with the right words
to say, right, like, because allthe wrong things come up.
(32:32):
Especially when you feel likehelpless in that situation, like
you just really don't know whatit is to get your kid to, to do
the thing or to understand whatyou're asking of them, can be
really hard to find the rightwords to say.
Laura (32:48):
It is really hard and I often just say you know, like
this is a really big thing, likeyou're going through a really
big emotion right now, you'reexperiencing something really
hard right now.
Or this is really hard for youor you don't want to do this.
You are, you know, you'rereflecting back.
You're just saying what they'redoing.
You're saying what they'refeeling, like you don't want to
(33:08):
go to bed right now.
You were having too much fun.
You don't want to stop doingthe thing that you were doing.
You don't want to.
You know, wash up for dinnerright now.
This is really hard for you tobe done playing with that game,
right?
So we're just reflecting back.
We don't have to solve it yeah,that's really insightful, I'm
(33:32):
going to use that and it'sreally hard.
Michaela (33:36):
Yeah, I think it's like you know, if I'm going to
be really honest, I'm thinkingabout my own, like a situation
that just happened right, wheremy kid chose not to do his
reading.
Like he's supposed to do 10minutes of reading every you
know, certain nights of the weekor whatever, and he really
didn't want to do his reading.
Like he's supposed to do 10minutes of reading every you
know, certain nights of the weekor whatever, and he really
(33:57):
didn't want to do it.
And you know, thinking aboutsaying like you really didn't
want to, you really don't wantto read.
Right now it still feelsunsettling to me because I still
didn't get him to do the thingand that's what's really hard,
because it's like you know, Ithink in that moment it's like I
feel like a failure.
Yeah, you know, and so like Iget that, like I get that that's
(34:18):
hard, but I think that thisreally does make sense because
you're helping them understandthat you understand them.
Laura (34:27):
Mm-hmm.
And when you understand themand you connect with them, you
can say follow up with, and wehave to do a little bit of this,
let's, instead of do 10 minutes, let's do three, and then we
can come back to it at adifferent time.
(34:48):
But we can say, like you reallydon't want to do this reading
right now.
I get that and that's okay notto want to, and we're still
going to do a little bit of itand even if they don't do any of
it, you're not a failure,because it's one day, it's one
moment, it's a snapshot in timeand it's not reflective of your
(35:09):
encompassing motherhood.
Right, it's a tough minute,sure.
Michaela (35:16):
Well, and I think that , like you know, inherently you
go to.
Well, this is what I felt likegoing to judging my like,
comparing myself to like maybewhat my husband could get him to
do Right, and then I have tothink back to like we have
different tactics, we havedifferent ways of parenting and
(35:36):
maybe I feel, like you know, weeach feel like our way is the
best or whatever, but it's likeI may not get the same results
because I'm not doing the samethings.
That's okay, you know, but Ithink that, like, in in the
moment, it's like you want to besuccessful, to show that, like
you're doing the right thingsand you can win Right.
(35:59):
I think that, like, we have tounderstand that, like the goal
isn't getting the kid to do thething now, it's the relationship
and it's emotional regulation.
And is he gonna fail firstgrade because he didn't read 200
(36:20):
minutes that month?
no, no, he's not so when we zoomout and we look at the big
picture, it's a lot easier to beforgiving.
Laura (36:30):
But in that moment I think it's like you want so
badly to win you know, yeah, Ido understand that, like we want
to be able to get them to dothe thing that they need to do,
because that will make us feellike we did it well, we did a
good job, right, right, there'snot a lot of times as moms or as
(36:53):
dads that we get to reallynotice like, hey, I did a good
job.
Just now, like, how often do Isay that to myself as a parent?
Almost never, right?
Maybe that's something that weneed to acknowledge more often.
Michaela (37:06):
For sure, and I think, unless we change this, the like
, the barometer right, like whatare we?
You know, like I think that thenew barometer should be like I
handled that really well, like Idid a good job connecting with
my kid and you know, I'm reallyproud of myself for that right
(37:27):
Like winning at getting the kidto to do what you told them to
do.
But I still think that, like Isaid before, those things are
very deeply ingrained in us aslike, and I think it's like we
want to be able to report backto the school that we did, we
did the best and that we are thebest parents you know, and it's
like I want to do that Right,but like, also, if I didn't, if
(37:51):
it doesn't happen, what's theworst thing that's going to
happen?
Laura (37:57):
Yeah, when we're thinking about parenting, we have to
separate ourselves from theoutcomes a little bit and focus
more on the connection and theeveryday, like lessons that
we're teaching our kids.
Are we teaching them to be kindto themselves?
Are we teaching them to respecttheir own bodies and their own
(38:20):
emotions, and are we teachingthem to respect themselves and
set boundaries?
Are we teaching them to respecttheir education and prioritize
work even when they don't wantto do it?
Are we teaching them that?
Or are we teaching them thatoutcomes are the only thing that
matters and that if you don'tdo this you're a failure and
that if you, you know, if youget good grades, then that means
(38:45):
that you're a good person?
Like, we want to kind of zoomout, like you said, and think
about what are we teaching themwhile we're teaching them?
Michaela (38:54):
Right, well, and why do you?
Why do we think that kids incollege, you know, have
breakdowns because they'reputting so much pressure on
themselves and they havethemselves set up like
unreasonable expectations forthemselves.
And, you know, as things getharder, we can't maintain all
(39:17):
the things and we can't beinvolved in all the things and
and be as successful as we werebefore.
And so we have these, you know,or or just like creating these
unrealistic expectations ofthemselves, and you know, then
they, that's what, that's whereanxiety comes from right, like
that's one of the sources ofanxiety is that they only
believe that their benefit is ifthey're succeeding, if they're
(39:41):
doing well, right, like that'sthe only way that they're good
enough.
Mm-hmm.
Laura (39:46):
We have to help ourselves and our kids notice that that's
not the only thing that matters, like we have inherent value
and we are good enough, even ifour outcomes aren't there.
We can try harder.
We can try something else, youknow, and sometimes people fail.
Sometimes you know they do faila class and they have to learn
(40:09):
and grow from that and work alittle bit harder next time and
maybe get a tutor and do.
I mean, there's like highschool kids or college kids that
are going through that too andrecognizing that they can't be a
part of all the different clubsand activities and also be
successful in their academicsand they have to make some hard
(40:30):
choices and sacrifices.
They have to learn how to dothat and that's okay.
It's important that we let themwork some of that out and not
rescue them all the time.
Right, and that's a hard thingto know when to rescue and when
not to rescue.
But when it comes to dealingwith big feelings and having
like big meltdowns, like wedon't need to save them from
(40:53):
those feelings, we can recognizethat those feelings are allowed
, they're valid and you know, wecan have those feelings, we can
express our feelings withoutacting them out, and so we can
do that by, like, if a kid isviolently acting out, right, we
can say to them like you know,this feeling is okay, this
behavior is not.
We can have these feelings andwe can talk about these feelings
(41:17):
and we can move through thesefeelings together.
We can't hurt each other, wecan't hurt ourselves, we can't
damage property, right.
So we can teach our kids how tobe emotionally intelligent and
emotionally literate when itcomes to identifying their
emotions and working throughthem in a more healthy and safe
way.
Michaela (41:35):
Yeah, and that teaching may not happen in the
moment when you're having theoutburst it likely happens later
, right?
But it's still a goodopportunity to help them learn
and grow from their feelings andalso know that, like you know,
it takes time.
They're going to keep havingthese outbursts until they learn
(41:56):
how to manage it, right, andyou're just setting good
boundaries and helping keep themsafe during that moment.
Laura (42:04):
And we have to help ourselves feel safe on the
inside in order to help themfeel safe on the inside.
That's good, that's a goodpoint, and that's true in
relationships too.
There's a lot of co-regulationin adult relationships, like we
can be that stable base for ourpartner when they're going
through a hard time too, bysaying I'm okay while you're not
(42:25):
okay, and I can be okay enoughfor the both of us and I'm here
with you.
Yeah, which can be reallychallenging, but it's actually
also really rewarding and cancreate further deepening of
connection between people.
Yeah, definitely so I thinkthat might be a good place to
(42:49):
leave it for today.
That might be a good place toleave it for today.
We have definitely got somegood ways to tolerate our big
feelings, and I really loved ourconversation earlier about core
self and I'm going to link tocore self in our show notes so
if anyone wants to take a lookat our website, they can.
And thank you so much forlistening to why Am I Like this.
(43:11):
If you like our show, pleaseleave us a rating and review on
your favorite podcast platform,follow the show and share it
with your friends.
This episode was written andproduced by me, Laura Wood and
Michaela Beaver.
Our theme song is Making EndsMeet by Thick as Thieves, and a
special thanks to Core Self,Benavieri Counseling and Active
Healing Psychiatric Services forsponsoring this show.
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