June 28, 2024 • 33 mins
What if the key to feeling connected lay in understanding your deepest vulnerabilities? In this powerful episode, we unravel the complex relationship between childhood trauma and the persistent sense of isolation that often shadows our adult lives. By examining how our self-worth becomes entangled in external roles and relationships, we highlight the significance of embracing our intrinsic qualities and interests. This critical shift can pave the way for deeper connections with ourselves and those around us.
Boldly challenging the status quo, we tackle the impact of social media on genuine human connections, particularly among young girls. The constant cycle of comparison and superficial interactions can erode self-esteem, exacerbating feelings of loneliness. We discuss current studies showing a widespread desire for more authentic, in-person interactions and suggest rethinking phone use in schools. Through low-stakes, face-to-face interactions, we cultivate personal development, learning to set and respect boundaries while fostering stronger, more resilient relationships.
Our final chapter delves into overcoming pain as a necessary step toward building meaningful connections. Experiencing hurt does not have to signify the end of relationships; rather, it is an opportunity for growth and understanding. We stress the importance of treating ourselves with dignity and compassion to mitigate the fear of rejection. By addressing past traumas, with techniques such as EMDR therapy, we can dismantle old triggers and embrace authentic connections. Don't miss our recommended resource, "Getting Past the Past," which is linked in our show notes to further assist your journey of personal growth.
Laura's Free Course on Emotional Development and Regulation:
https://benavieri.com/neuroception-sign-up/
This show is sponsored by:
Core Self
Benavieri Counseling & Coaching
www.benavieri.com
Active Healing Psychiatric Services
www.activehealingpsych.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Laura (00:00):
Hello and welcome to.
Why Am I Like this?
The podcast for those whodidn't get enough hugs as a
child?
I'm Laura Wood and I'm a traumatherapist.
Michaela (00:10):
Hi and I'm Michaela Beaver.
I'm a psychiatric nursepractitioner.
Laura (00:15):
So, Michaela, why are we doing this podcast?
I'm so glad you asked.
Michaela (00:21):
So we want to help you understand yourself a bit
better, how the things youlearned about yourself and the
world in childhood are stillaffecting you today.
We want to figure out why arewe like this those random things
about ourselves that we mightwonder about.
Why am I so jumpy?
Why am I so anxious?
Why do I take everythingpersonally?
(00:42):
Why are my thoughts so negative?
Why do I feel like I have tofix everything?
Laura (00:47):
all the time.
Yes, and we are talking aboutfeeling isolated today.
So we are going to try toanswer the following questions
what type of ways do we act whenwe are in this situation?
What could be the cause forfeeling like you're an outsider,
and how can we move towardsfeeling more connection with
(01:08):
others?
So with that, let's get into it.
So what do you feel like?
Being isolated?
How would you describe feelingisolated?
Michaela (01:19):
Hmm, I guess I would think that I just don't feel
connection with people.
I feel like it'd be, um, Icould be in a room full of
people and yet I just feel likeI don't fit in.
I feel like, you know, I justdon't have that connection to
(01:42):
people.
Laura (01:45):
I just don't have that connection to people.
Would it include like thefeeling of you know, everybody
is sort of judging me oreverybody's like looking at me
or I'm sort of the subject ofjokes or ridicule or something
like that.
Or would it be more like I'mcompletely invisible and nobody
knows I'm here?
Michaela (02:02):
I think maybe it could be a little bit of both, but
I'm thinking more like I'minvisible and or like I'm just
not like these people.
Laura (02:14):
Yeah, like everybody else, got this memo that I
didn't get.
Michaela (02:18):
Yeah, or everybody seems to just be really enjoying
themselves and they, they'retalking to each other and
connecting, and I just don'tfeel like I have, I'm missing
something.
I'm missing that connectionwith, with the people, even
though I'm, you know, I'm notalone, and they, they say they
like me, they say that you knowI get positive affirmations from
(02:39):
people but I just don't feellike it's genuine or true or
real, like I don't deserve to beliked or to be happy, even.
Laura (02:51):
Yeah, like it's not quite real, like everybody else
is sort of part of this universethat I don't get to be part of.
I don't get to be happy andhave fun and have something
positive to share and everybodyelse is just bebopping around
town, you know, having the timeof their life, and I'm just
(03:13):
feeling in my head and I'm justfeeling like I don't matter.
Michaela (03:21):
Well, and I think that sometimes you know where I see
this is a couple of differentsituations.
I think of trauma and I thinkof I wasn't allowed to have
feelings like feeling.
I can't.
I'm just there's a disconnectin my feelings in general and
that's just one of them.
Right, I mean, I feel sad, butI just don't feel happy and I
(03:44):
don't feel connection and I justI'm not allowed to feel things.
Laura (03:48):
It's so lonely and I also think of that.
We're only measuring ourselves,but in the context of, like our
relationship with other people.
So oftentimes, when we askpeople about their qualities,
what do they say?
They say that they are kind toothers or they're like helpful,
(04:09):
especially little kids.
Right, I'm helpful, I am goodat following directions.
Like I am kind, I am a goodfriend, I'm a good neighbor, I'm
a good kid to my parents, I'm agood kid to my parents.
(04:31):
So all of our self-concept isreally wrapped up in the context
of what are we doing for andhow are we adding value to other
people's experience.
And when everybody else isdoing great, I just don't have
anything of value to add.
Like I'm not necessary here.
I'm not really, you know, I'mnot really part of this, but if
somebody has a problem, you knowthey're going to come to me
(04:54):
first, right?
Michaela (04:55):
Almost that people pleaser thing again.
Laura (04:59):
Yeah, it's people pleasing, but then it's also
this sort of dissociativeresponse of like I don't exist
outside of the context of myrelationships with other people,
or like my value that Icontribute to other people Right
.
Right, Instead of saying I'm agood artist, that's something I
do and that's not for anybodybut me really Right, like, I'm a
(05:21):
good artist or I'm curious, Iam ambitious, I love music, I am
interested in the outdoors, Iam right.
So it's like these are actualintrinsic traits that, like, are
designed for me and me alone.
I can also be proud of the factthat I'm a good friend.
I can also be excited aboutbeing kind and generous, you
(05:45):
know, because those aren't.
There's nothing bad about thosetraits, but they're not my only
value, they're not the onlything that gives my life meaning
, whereas I think when you growup in an environment where you
are only acknowledged when youare impacting someone else, so
(06:08):
however someone else feels ismore important than how you feel
, and your essential, innatehumanness is not being
considered, it's not being seen,you're not being acknowledged
as a separate human being,besides the way that you're
impacting the other personmostly your parents.
Michaela (06:28):
Yeah.
Or your siblings, like oh, Ilove to see it when you're so
nice to your brother, like, oh,you're such a good helper, I
love that you're helping me.
Laura (06:39):
Right, Right, and those are good things.
But we're also need to saythings like you know, Right, and
(07:06):
those are good things.
But we're also need to saythings like you know, what did
you like about that movie, orwhat makes that game your
favorite, or you know how didyou sort of praising their
goodness, which means,effectively, that they're not,
they're not bothering you Likeyeah.
Michaela (07:14):
Or you're, or you're only a good human being.
You're only good if you do goodthings like that.
It's not like oh, I'm bad ifI'm not doing those things, Like
, oh, I'm bad if I'm not doingthose things.
Laura (07:26):
Yeah, and one thing that comes along with this sort of
feeling of being isolated orleft out or feeling like an
outsider is feeling like aburden, I think sometimes we can
feel like we have to be quietand we have to like shrink back
(07:48):
so that we don't bother anyone.
Michaela (07:49):
Yeah, and, and busy kids are intrusive and it can be
a lot, I mean, and it's hard totry to navigate like your own
needs, in the context of alsohelping not to damage their
self-esteem and make them feelbad for being curious and asking
tons of questions and touchingeverything and wanting to
(08:14):
understand the world around them, because that's what their
brain is trying to do.
Laura (08:18):
Well, totally.
And I think we need balance,boundaries with positive
exploration and unattended play,so kids can play unattended.
Or play unimpeded, un-intrudedon by the parents.
(08:38):
Like if, if, when a kid isplaying, we're constantly
watching them, like, oh, don'tdo that, oh, don't do that, and
we're constantly trying tocontrol their play, then they're
going to retreat inward andthey're just going to like, be
afraid to do anything, they'regoing to be afraid to reach out
at all.
And that's what I think of.
If I think of somebody who islike at a party and this crowd
of people, but they're alone inthe corner, kind of not getting
(09:01):
in the way, not botheringanybody, maybe thinking people
don't recognize them or theywouldn't remember them or they
wouldn't want them to say hi tothem.
If they did go and say hi, like, oh, that person doesn't care
about me, like they don't wantme to say hi.
You know, I can relate to thatfeeling.
Like I might see somebody thatI know from like a long time ago
and just like I might think tomyself, oh, they won't remember
(09:22):
me, like I'm not going to sayanything you know what I mean
Like I'm not going to botherthem by going over and be like
hey, do you remember me, causethat's just you know, going to
be awkward, or something Like.
So I tend to get introverted insituations like that, and so I
can kind of relate to that likefeeling of of not wanting to
approach.
Michaela (09:43):
Sure, yeah, definitely , you can see that being a thing
.
I know I've been on both sidesof the spectrum.
I remember in college it wasour first day and trying to like
I'm like, okay, I need to makemy Insta best friend so that I
can survive, right, I'm like Ineed people, otherwise I'm not
(10:03):
going to survive grad school.
And in that one of the girlslike says she approached me and
I like ignored her.
But I know, I, I do not recallthat whatsoever, I would never
do that to somebodyintentionally.
And so then that created herprobably feeling that way, right
(10:26):
, and that wasn't my intention,but that was her.
That was her experience of whathappened.
I was probably super anxioustrying to just like make
connections and feel it out sothat I could.
You know, cause my, my, my, I'mlike I cannot succeed on my own
.
I need people.
So, of course, why would Iignore somebody?
Like I would want all thepeople, but you know that could
(10:48):
create that feeling of being anoutsider.
Laura (10:51):
Yeah, totally.
And you know, on the flip sideit's funny because you're saying
, oh, I was so anxious Like Imight not have even noticed that
she reached out to me orwhatever.
Like you're in your own headthinking, which is funny because
all you really want is to makea friend and you're stuck in
your own head so much that youdon't even notice when somebody
does reach out to you, out toyou.
(11:12):
Like a similar thing happenedto me when, like this was
probably 15 or 20 years ago Ican't remember exactly but
somebody that I have known for along time, the first time that
we ever met, they said the samething to me.
They said, oh, I came and Isaid hi to you or whatever, and
you just like ignored me.
And I was like that's a weirdthing, why would I do that?
(11:35):
And I think what was happeningat the time is I used to feel
really like a burden.
I would be.
I was that person who I justlike I didn't want.
I just was kept my head down,just get my work done.
You know I used to have likethree jobs.
I would just like get it done,do the thing go home, you know,
(11:56):
and kind of have this perceptionthat nobody, I didn't really
have anything to offer.
I didn't really have anythingof value.
So it was like nobody needs tolike get to know me.
I can just be kind of by myselfand just do my own thing and
take care of what I need to, andthen just go home and whatever.
And I think that I think aboutthat as like a defense.
(12:16):
So, on the one hand, you mightbe so anxious that and nervous
that you might not meet theright person or that people
might not like you.
On the other hand, you mightfeel like, oh, nobody cares
about you, you don't haveanything to offer anyway.
So just like, ignore everybodyand kind of whatever Right.
So like, either way, you'resort of stuck in your own
(12:38):
feelings and none of it isactually happening in the world,
it's just happening inside ofyou.
Yeah, absolutely so I think ofthat as sort of a defense.
One of them is an attachmentcry and one of them is a defense
against attachment cry, that Ineed somebody versus I don't
need anybody and justinteracting with people is just
(13:00):
going to make my life worse, orinteracting with people is the
only way that I'm going tosurvive.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Michaela (13:08):
Well, another thing that kind of comes up for me
when I'm thinking about thiswhole conversation is talking
about, like, the social mediaaspects of things, right.
So we are constantly seekingconnection.
It's our biological nature towant to be part of a group.
(13:30):
I know we've talked about that,you know societal need for
connection so that we don'tbecome an outsider, we don't get
thrown out, right.
And so, in that, we, you know,have all these social media
platforms and that is a form ofwhere we're trying to seek out
connection.
We have, you know, you look atall, oh, I have a thousand
(13:52):
friends.
Oh, I want to, I want to goviral, right.
But when we're looking at andwe're watching all those things,
we're going to social media toget connection and we're seeking
oxytocin, that love you thinkof that for like love, right,
but it's really also in thatconnection and need for
connection, and so we're, wejust keep scrolling and
scrolling, or seeking andseeking, because we never
(14:13):
actually meet what we're tryingto achieve in that way, because
we really need that face-to-faceconnection to feel better.
Laura (14:25):
Yeah, in social media world there is pretend personas
and there is really more seekinghappening than connecting
happening and more disconnectionhappening than connection
happening.
So the sense of feeling leftout is even increased when we
(14:47):
look at our social media feedand we see, oh, you know, this
person just got engaged, butlike I'm not engaged.
Or oh, this person just boughttheir first house Like I don't
have a house yet.
Or like, oh, this person has,like, this beautiful family and
all these kids and, like youknow, I feel alone in my family
(15:07):
sometimes.
Or I you know.
It's sort of everything thatyou see is basically people
showing their the world whatthey want the world to see and
maybe celebrate moments witheach other.
But if you're feeling like anoutsider, that can be really
upsetting because you mightthink, oh well, I wasn't invited
(15:29):
to that party, or why are allmy friends here and I'm not
coming?
Or I'm not invited or theydidn't tell me about that.
Michaela (15:35):
I'm not coming, or I'm not invited, or they didn't
tell me about that and likeslike oh, this person likes
everybody else's stuff, but theynever like my stuff.
Or you know, oh, I didn't Ididn't get all these likes on
this post.
You know, I must.
Laura (15:50):
people must not like me, yeah, or nobody's looking at my
stuff or nobody's sharing it ornobody's commenting on it.
You know, nobody cares about me.
(16:22):
Um, when my friends post, getall these likes and attention
and whatever, and you know Ithink what's interesting,
there's been studies out thatactually say that girls, young
girls, like middle school girls,using social media, are doing
all this activity.
They're having, like they'redoing tons and tons of social
media activity but they're notactually having fun.
Like they report, like this isnot fun.
I don't like this.
And collectively, um, if youasked a group of kids, um, like
when they survey schools, ifthey want to ban phones in
schools, what happens is theysurvey the kids and if it's like
, would you lose your phone forthe day?
Right, like.
Or if everybody can't usephones, overwhelmingly, it's if
(16:43):
everybody.
If nobody can have it, then I'mfine, right, right, like it's I
can't miss out on if everybodyelse has it, but I don't have it
, but I don't want my phone aslike, if nobody else has their
phone and I don't have my phone,like that's great.
I would love that.
The next generation alpha iscoming up and we're trying to
figure out how do we keep themsafe from these phones.
(17:05):
And if you ask Gen Zers likewould you have been happier if
you didn't have your phone untilyou were 16, 17, or if you were
not allowed to have your phonein school?
And overwhelmingly they say Iwish that I didn't have this,
(17:25):
like I would have waited, I wishthat it was banned in school
for everybody.
Michaela (17:31):
So you know it's a constant comparison again, and
then you're seeking outconnection and you are getting
oh, they didn't they, they, theyleft me on.
Read like oh, they saw it, butthey haven't responded.
And what does that mean?
And it and then just fosteringthe more superficial connections
(17:55):
, right, like is not really trueconnection with somebody.
It's not a conversation, itdoesn't.
It doesn't make strong bondswhere you feel like you can be
yourself.
You still feel like you have tobe this fake version of
yourself that you have to putout there in the world,
otherwise nobody's going to likeme.
Because who could like the realversion of me?
(18:16):
I'm weird, I'm goofy, I'm funny.
And why would I?
Why could I?
How could I be like that toother people?
Because I'm not having thatface-to-face connection where
you can see their actualresponse to the joke that you
made.
Right, you can know that theyactually understood it because
you're face to face.
Laura (18:36):
Well, yeah, and if you do something silly or stupid,
it's not like enshrined forever,it's just an interaction.
It's a moment that you canlearn from.
Like, if I say something thatis like somewhat offensive to
somebody right, which people cando all the time I can
accidentally say something thathurts someone's feelings or
that's insensitive to someoneelse or whatever.
(18:57):
And if I do that in real lifeand that person is like Whoa,
you went too far, like, thatjoke's not funny, then that's a
very different thing than if Isay something and then now all
of a sudden it's plastered onsocial media and somebody's
sharing it and screenshotting itand it goes around and now I'm
just this like horrible monster.
(19:19):
Um, like, I think when we learnhow to communicate online, the
stakes are really high, whereasin-person interactions feel it's
funny, because I think we thinkthat stakes are high, but
they're not.
They're really low.
Low stakes interactions are theones that we learn from.
Low stakes interactions are theones that we have every day
(19:41):
with other people, when we'reinteracting with them, like you
know, over lunch, or you know,when you go order something and
somebody's in line and they askyou a random question and you
interact with that person, likethose are low stakes
interactions, with perfectstrangers even but they help you
develop a connection to yoursense of yourself and your
ability to react and interact inthe world interpersonally.
(20:05):
Right, and nothing bad happenedand nothing bad happened.
And if something did happenwhere somebody's feelings got
hurt, you can repair that inreal time.
Like those repairs matter infriendship, like it turns out
that one bad conversation or oneset of hurt feelings doesn't
ruin a relationship.
(20:26):
Yeah.
Michaela (20:30):
And I think that's hard that have learned that in
order to protect myself, becauseI'm I'm struggling to stop you
from crossing boundaries, it'stoo uncomfortable for me to set
that boundary and maintain itand therefore I must cut you off
completely because I can't befriends with you, because it's
(20:52):
just too uncomfortable, becauseI don't know how to do this
interaction and, and you know,set my boundary and be firm and
kind without, you know, havingto feel uncomfortable.
Laura (21:07):
When you set a boundary and someone respects that
boundary, it's actually reallyempowering and it's helpful and
it makes you feel even moreconnected, right?
Because if someone said to melike, oh, that joke went too far
, like that's not funny, thatreally hurt my feelings, I would
then be able to say, oh my gosh, that's my bad.
Like I didn't mean to hurt yourfeelings, I'm so sorry, that
(21:27):
was completely insensitive of meand you know I won't make jokes
about that in the future.
And then that person can belike oh well, you respect me,
that's quite nice.
Like I set a boundary andnothing bad happened, right?
So that interaction is isreinforcing of, like a sense of
powerful self and importance andand efficacy and validity that
(21:51):
we really need.
We need to know that we areable to have those types of
things in relationships.
Michaela (21:58):
Sure, what about, like vulnerability?
Right, we need to be vulnerableto show who we truly are, and
so you know, do you think thatthat plays a role in feeling
like an outsider Like I?
That that plays a role infeeling like an outsider, like I
(22:19):
don't feel like I can bevulnerable?
Therefore, that's part of whatcauses me to not feel connection
?
Laura (22:23):
Yeah, I think we're protecting ourselves by avoiding
it's.
That defense mechanism, youknow, like this belief that like
I'm just different thaneveryone else, helps me feel
like it's I'm in more controland helps me avoid potential
pain or rejection.
If I'm afraid of rejection orabandonment, or if I've
(22:43):
experienced rejection orabandonment in my childhood or
in my past, then I might be very, very sensitive to other
people's opinions and otherpeople's perspectives and they
might, if they disagree with meor if they don't invite me to
something that can make me feelreally alone and isolated and
abandoned.
And that pain is just too much.
(23:05):
It's too big of a pain becauseit's pain from the past, it's
not really pain about thepresent.
If I have that kind of history,then it might be really hard
for me to put myself out thereand be vulnerable because I
don't believe that I cantolerate the pain again.
I'm really focusing on the past.
It's familiar, right, but it'snot what's happening in the
(23:28):
present.
Michaela (23:29):
You mean I don't have to get invited to everything.
If I'm not invited to stuff,that doesn't mean that I can't
be friends with that person.
Yes, that's correct, that'snovel.
Laura (23:41):
That's exactly right.
And if you don't invite everysingle person, that doesn't make
you a bad friend or a badperson.
Michaela (23:50):
Yeah, I mean, I think that there are things that play
a role in it, right?
How much money do I have tospend?
How much space do I have?
You know, there's factors.
Are these two people are goingto get along?
This is part of this friendgroup and that's part of that
friend group, right, likethere's?
Laura (24:09):
a lot of other sexes, you know, and that might be
awkward.
Yeah, all of those factorsmatter when we're thinking about
what to do and, as an adult,the good news is you can choose
and you can have differentevents with different people and
you can expect that thosepeople feel, or at least respond
(24:31):
, like adults and they caneither share with you you know
like it really hurt my feelingsthat I wasn't invited to that or
they can be excited for you andwhatever you're doing and then
spend time with you on adifferent day.
Michaela (24:44):
Right, or even just be like hey, that sounds like a
lot of fun.
Can we go do that sometime?
Yeah, I would love to go that,you know, I, I, I want to go do
hot yoga.
I want to come with me Like oh,you went to hot yoga Cool,
let's do it together.
Laura (25:00):
Yeah, I love that and I think you know, when we think
about the vulnerability aspectof missing out or feeling miss,
like you're left out, or feelinglike you didn't get invited,
like that does hurt, but it'snot reasonable to expect in any
relationship that you'll neverget hurt and that you'll never
hurt together.
Michaela (25:20):
Right and it's hard to know this, but it's something
that you can learn is that youcan be okay even when you do get
hurt or you hurt somebody else,like unintentionally, or
whatever.
You can be okay and it can's.
And it can be okay and it canget worked out, and that doesn't
(25:42):
mean that the relationship isbad or that person is bad.
Laura (25:48):
Yeah, I think that's a really good start towards
feeling more connected withother people is recognizing that
this pain that I'm feelingdoesn't mean the relationship is
over.
This pain that I'm feelingdoesn't make the other person a
horrible person.
It doesn't make me like Ididn't do anything wrong.
To have to feel this pain, likesometimes pains are just pains.
(26:10):
That's part of life and that'sokay.
We have to go through hardthings, we have to learn how to
tolerate hard things and I thinkmost importantly is that if we
want to feel connected withother people, we have to be
connected with ourselves, and Iknow I say this all the time I'm
going to say it again, but.
I'm going to say it again theantidote to that distress is
(26:31):
that connection with yourself.
If you feel like you're aworthy, valuable person and
you're caring for yourself,you're showing yourself respect,
you're showing yourself dignityand compassion and you are, you
know, believing that you areworthy of connection, then
(26:52):
you're going to have a mucheasier time allowing connection
because you know that, even ifit doesn't work out with that
person, that's not the end ofthe world and it's not the only
possible person for thisconnection to happen with.
Michaela (27:06):
That's so important I think that that is the root of a
lot of the healing.
I mean, I just had thatconversation with a client the
other day about somethingtotally different and ultimately
, the first step is if you don'tbelieve that you're worthy of
love, if you don't love yourself, then you are going to
(27:28):
constantly fear rejectionbecause you aren't really
confident in yourself.
Laura (27:35):
And because you're constantly rejecting yourself.
So when we banish and rejectthose parts of ourselves that we
don't like, or those parts ofourselves that are causing us
pain, or those parts ofourselves that we blame for our
aloneness, if we're constantlybanishing and talking to
ourselves in a really hurtfulway, we're rejecting ourselves,
(27:57):
we're hurting ourselves andwe're perpetuating that pain.
So we can't tolerate that painfrom other people because we're
just constantly in it withourselves.
Right?
Michaela (28:08):
And that kind of comes back to the interactions that
both we kind of had, thoseshared experiences of our
friends misinterpreting what wasgoing on for us, of our friends
misinterpreting our our whatwas going on for us.
And so you're going to be morelikely to misinterpret what the
person is, the person you'retrying to connect with, is
experiencing, because you'rereflecting your own insecurities
(28:30):
on that person and puttingmaking them be believing that
they believe the same thingabout you as well.
Right, and so that's a that's apossible, you know, mind
reading situation.
Where we're, we're in, we'remiss attuning to the situation.
Laura (28:47):
Yeah for sure.
Like I think about when I feellike I can't do anything alone
and I am super dependent, thatcan push people away, and then
when I think, well, nobody caresabout me, I don't matter, like
I don't matter to those people,that pushes people away.
So both ways we're not gettingwhat we need or want, which is
(29:10):
that we want people to see usfor however we are and for who
we really are, and see pastthose fears and flaws and pain
and actually just be excited tosee us.
I think that's what everybodywants.
Michaela (29:26):
I do too.
That sounds like what I want.
Laura (29:31):
Yeah, and so I think we've got to connect with
ourselves first, acknowledgethat we're not perfect people,
but we don't have to be.
We deserve love and connectionand once we get past that pain
we can feel more confident andmore capable of letting people
(29:55):
in and more willing to take thatrisk that we have to take in
order to get that reward ofthose good relationships.
Michaela (30:03):
Yes, yeah, I think that that's good advice.
And then I think too, like youknow, if, if what is going on
for us is a reenactment of ourpast in some kind of way and
maybe we don't really fully see,like we're not really aware of
that, or maybe we are, and so wecan do therapy like EMDR to
(30:29):
help ourselves recognize where,what, the real root of, of what
is causing how we're feelingtoday.
Laura (30:36):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, that's a great.
That's a great point.
And I think you know the one ofthe great books that was
written by the creator of EMDRtherapy is called getting past
your past, which is literally tosay that when the past is
present, you know all of thosefeelings that you have of fear
(30:57):
and abandonment and rejectionand everything else that's going
on with you, and anxiety, andall of that stuff it's amplified
, it's dialed up by 10 becauseit's really reacting to
something old.
It's old stuff that it'sreacting to.
It's not stuff in the present.
And if you can get past thatpast and get into the present,
(31:19):
then you can realize like, oh, Ican tolerate the fact that I
didn't get invited to thatbirthday party and I can still
send like a nice birthday wishand see if they want to have
lunch with me.
Michaela (31:27):
Yeah, One of the things that blew my mind in that
, in like reading that book, wasliterally that this, the stuff
doesn't have to be big, majortrauma.
And I think that a lot, a lotof people are like, well, I
don't really have trauma, Like Ihad a good childhood, I had all
you know, whatever, but eveneven just a thunderstorm where
(31:51):
you cried out for help andnobody helped you can be a
trigger point for some of yourabandonment stuff.
Like something so little, likeI think that was one of the
examples in the book, right Likesomething so little could, or
seemingly so little to us as anadult you know, but it's really
not about our adult beliefsystem.
It's really about how weinterpreted that as a child,
(32:12):
which is so different.
Laura (32:14):
Right.
Our perspective at the time isthe perspective that's still
making us feel afraid, not ourperspective today as an adult,
when we look back.
And so we have to reconcilethose perspectives by accepting
the old one and not banishing it.
We have to accept it and say,like, that makes sense, I'm
attuning to myself, I'm notrejecting myself, and that's
really that connection, thatfirst connection with with
(32:37):
itself, is the first step inhealing, which is so cool, I
know, and I think that's a greatplace to end today.
I think that I will list a linkto the book Getting Past the
Past in the show notes and thatway anybody else who wants to
read it can go and find it.
Yeah, that's a great idea,awesome.
(32:59):
So thank you for listening to.
Why Am I Like this?
If you like our show, pleaseleave us a rating and review on
your favorite podcast platform,follow the show and share it
with your friends.
This episode was written andproduced by me, laura Wood and
Michelle LeBeaver.
Our theme song is Making EndsLeap by Thick as Thieves, and a
(33:20):
special thanks to VeneraryCounseling and Coaching and
Active Healing PsychiatricServices for sponsoring this
show.
Hello and welcome to.
Why Am I Like this?
The podcast for those whodidn't get enough hugs as a
child?
I'm Laura Wood and I'm a traumatherapist.
Michaela (00:10):
Hi and I'm Michaela Beaver.
I'm a psychiatric nursepractitioner.
Laura (00:15):
So, Michaela, why are we doing this podcast?
I'm so glad you asked.
Michaela (00:21):
So we want to help you understand yourself a bit
better, how the things youlearned about yourself and the
world in childhood are stillaffecting you today.
We want to figure out why arewe like this those random things
about ourselves that we mightwonder about.
Why am I so jumpy?
Why am I so anxious?
Why do I take everythingpersonally?
(00:42):
Why are my thoughts so negative?
Why do I feel like I have tofix everything?
Laura (00:47):
all the time.
Yes, and we are talking aboutfeeling isolated today.
So we are going to try toanswer the following questions
what type of ways do we act whenwe are in this situation?
What could be the cause forfeeling like you're an outsider,
and how can we move towardsfeeling more connection with
(01:08):
others?
So with that, let's get into it.
So what do you feel like?
Being isolated?
How would you describe feelingisolated?
Michaela (01:19):
Hmm, I guess I would think that I just don't feel
connection with people.
I feel like it'd be, um, Icould be in a room full of
people and yet I just feel likeI don't fit in.
I feel like, you know, I justdon't have that connection to
(01:42):
people.
Laura (01:45):
I just don't have that connection to people.
Would it include like thefeeling of you know, everybody
is sort of judging me oreverybody's like looking at me
or I'm sort of the subject ofjokes or ridicule or something
like that.
Or would it be more like I'mcompletely invisible and nobody
knows I'm here?
Michaela (02:02):
I think maybe it could be a little bit of both, but
I'm thinking more like I'minvisible and or like I'm just
not like these people.
Laura (02:14):
Yeah, like everybody else, got this memo that I
didn't get.
Michaela (02:18):
Yeah, or everybody seems to just be really enjoying
themselves and they, they'retalking to each other and
connecting, and I just don'tfeel like I have, I'm missing
something.
I'm missing that connectionwith, with the people, even
though I'm, you know, I'm notalone, and they, they say they
like me, they say that you knowI get positive affirmations from
(02:39):
people but I just don't feellike it's genuine or true or
real, like I don't deserve to beliked or to be happy, even.
Laura (02:51):
Yeah, like it's not quite real, like everybody else
is sort of part of this universethat I don't get to be part of.
I don't get to be happy andhave fun and have something
positive to share and everybodyelse is just bebopping around
town, you know, having the timeof their life, and I'm just
(03:13):
feeling in my head and I'm justfeeling like I don't matter.
Michaela (03:21):
Well, and I think that sometimes you know where I see
this is a couple of differentsituations.
I think of trauma and I thinkof I wasn't allowed to have
feelings like feeling.
I can't.
I'm just there's a disconnectin my feelings in general and
that's just one of them.
Right, I mean, I feel sad, butI just don't feel happy and I
(03:44):
don't feel connection and I justI'm not allowed to feel things.
Laura (03:48):
It's so lonely and I also think of that.
We're only measuring ourselves,but in the context of, like our
relationship with other people.
So oftentimes, when we askpeople about their qualities,
what do they say?
They say that they are kind toothers or they're like helpful,
(04:09):
especially little kids.
Right, I'm helpful, I am goodat following directions.
Like I am kind, I am a goodfriend, I'm a good neighbor, I'm
a good kid to my parents, I'm agood kid to my parents.
(04:31):
So all of our self-concept isreally wrapped up in the context
of what are we doing for andhow are we adding value to other
people's experience.
And when everybody else isdoing great, I just don't have
anything of value to add.
Like I'm not necessary here.
I'm not really, you know, I'mnot really part of this, but if
somebody has a problem, you knowthey're going to come to me
(04:54):
first, right?
Michaela (04:55):
Almost that people pleaser thing again.
Laura (04:59):
Yeah, it's people pleasing, but then it's also
this sort of dissociativeresponse of like I don't exist
outside of the context of myrelationships with other people,
or like my value that Icontribute to other people Right
.
Right, Instead of saying I'm agood artist, that's something I
do and that's not for anybodybut me really Right, like, I'm a
(05:21):
good artist or I'm curious, Iam ambitious, I love music, I am
interested in the outdoors, Iam right.
So it's like these are actualintrinsic traits that, like, are
designed for me and me alone.
I can also be proud of the factthat I'm a good friend.
I can also be excited aboutbeing kind and generous, you
(05:45):
know, because those aren't.
There's nothing bad about thosetraits, but they're not my only
value, they're not the onlything that gives my life meaning
, whereas I think when you growup in an environment where you
are only acknowledged when youare impacting someone else, so
(06:08):
however someone else feels ismore important than how you feel
, and your essential, innatehumanness is not being
considered, it's not being seen,you're not being acknowledged
as a separate human being,besides the way that you're
impacting the other personmostly your parents.
Michaela (06:28):
Yeah.
Or your siblings, like oh, Ilove to see it when you're so
nice to your brother, like, oh,you're such a good helper, I
love that you're helping me.
Laura (06:39):
Right, Right, and those are good things.
But we're also need to saythings like you know, Right, and
(07:06):
those are good things.
But we're also need to saythings like you know, what did
you like about that movie, orwhat makes that game your
favorite, or you know how didyou sort of praising their
goodness, which means,effectively, that they're not,
they're not bothering you Likeyeah.
Michaela (07:14):
Or you're, or you're only a good human being.
You're only good if you do goodthings like that.
It's not like oh, I'm bad ifI'm not doing those things, Like
, oh, I'm bad if I'm not doingthose things.
Laura (07:26):
Yeah, and one thing that comes along with this sort of
feeling of being isolated orleft out or feeling like an
outsider is feeling like aburden, I think sometimes we can
feel like we have to be quietand we have to like shrink back
(07:48):
so that we don't bother anyone.
Michaela (07:49):
Yeah, and, and busy kids are intrusive and it can be
a lot, I mean, and it's hard totry to navigate like your own
needs, in the context of alsohelping not to damage their
self-esteem and make them feelbad for being curious and asking
tons of questions and touchingeverything and wanting to
(08:14):
understand the world around them, because that's what their
brain is trying to do.
Laura (08:18):
Well, totally.
And I think we need balance,boundaries with positive
exploration and unattended play,so kids can play unattended.
Or play unimpeded, un-intrudedon by the parents.
(08:38):
Like if, if, when a kid isplaying, we're constantly
watching them, like, oh, don'tdo that, oh, don't do that, and
we're constantly trying tocontrol their play, then they're
going to retreat inward andthey're just going to like, be
afraid to do anything, they'regoing to be afraid to reach out
at all.
And that's what I think of.
If I think of somebody who islike at a party and this crowd
of people, but they're alone inthe corner, kind of not getting
(09:01):
in the way, not botheringanybody, maybe thinking people
don't recognize them or theywouldn't remember them or they
wouldn't want them to say hi tothem.
If they did go and say hi, like, oh, that person doesn't care
about me, like they don't wantme to say hi.
You know, I can relate to thatfeeling.
Like I might see somebody thatI know from like a long time ago
and just like I might think tomyself, oh, they won't remember
(09:22):
me, like I'm not going to sayanything you know what I mean
Like I'm not going to botherthem by going over and be like
hey, do you remember me, causethat's just you know, going to
be awkward, or something Like.
So I tend to get introverted insituations like that, and so I
can kind of relate to that likefeeling of of not wanting to
approach.
Michaela (09:43):
Sure, yeah, definitely , you can see that being a thing
.
I know I've been on both sidesof the spectrum.
I remember in college it wasour first day and trying to like
I'm like, okay, I need to makemy Insta best friend so that I
can survive, right, I'm like Ineed people, otherwise I'm not
(10:03):
going to survive grad school.
And in that one of the girlslike says she approached me and
I like ignored her.
But I know, I, I do not recallthat whatsoever, I would never
do that to somebodyintentionally.
And so then that created herprobably feeling that way, right
(10:26):
, and that wasn't my intention,but that was her.
That was her experience of whathappened.
I was probably super anxioustrying to just like make
connections and feel it out sothat I could.
You know, cause my, my, my, I'mlike I cannot succeed on my own
.
I need people.
So, of course, why would Iignore somebody?
Like I would want all thepeople, but you know that could
(10:48):
create that feeling of being anoutsider.
Laura (10:51):
Yeah, totally.
And you know, on the flip sideit's funny because you're saying
, oh, I was so anxious Like Imight not have even noticed that
she reached out to me orwhatever.
Like you're in your own headthinking, which is funny because
all you really want is to makea friend and you're stuck in
your own head so much that youdon't even notice when somebody
does reach out to you, out toyou.
(11:12):
Like a similar thing happenedto me when, like this was
probably 15 or 20 years ago Ican't remember exactly but
somebody that I have known for along time, the first time that
we ever met, they said the samething to me.
They said, oh, I came and Isaid hi to you or whatever, and
you just like ignored me.
And I was like that's a weirdthing, why would I do that?
(11:35):
And I think what was happeningat the time is I used to feel
really like a burden.
I would be.
I was that person who I justlike I didn't want.
I just was kept my head down,just get my work done.
You know I used to have likethree jobs.
I would just like get it done,do the thing go home, you know,
(11:56):
and kind of have this perceptionthat nobody, I didn't really
have anything to offer.
I didn't really have anythingof value.
So it was like nobody needs tolike get to know me.
I can just be kind of by myselfand just do my own thing and
take care of what I need to, andthen just go home and whatever.
And I think that I think aboutthat as like a defense.
(12:16):
So, on the one hand, you mightbe so anxious that and nervous
that you might not meet theright person or that people
might not like you.
On the other hand, you mightfeel like, oh, nobody cares
about you, you don't haveanything to offer anyway.
So just like, ignore everybodyand kind of whatever Right.
So like, either way, you'resort of stuck in your own
(12:38):
feelings and none of it isactually happening in the world,
it's just happening inside ofyou.
Yeah, absolutely so I think ofthat as sort of a defense.
One of them is an attachmentcry and one of them is a defense
against attachment cry, that Ineed somebody versus I don't
need anybody and justinteracting with people is just
(13:00):
going to make my life worse, orinteracting with people is the
only way that I'm going tosurvive.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Michaela (13:08):
Well, another thing that kind of comes up for me
when I'm thinking about thiswhole conversation is talking
about, like, the social mediaaspects of things, right.
So we are constantly seekingconnection.
It's our biological nature towant to be part of a group.
(13:30):
I know we've talked about that,you know societal need for
connection so that we don'tbecome an outsider, we don't get
thrown out, right.
And so, in that, we, you know,have all these social media
platforms and that is a form ofwhere we're trying to seek out
connection.
We have, you know, you look atall, oh, I have a thousand
(13:52):
friends.
Oh, I want to, I want to goviral, right.
But when we're looking at andwe're watching all those things,
we're going to social media toget connection and we're seeking
oxytocin, that love you thinkof that for like love, right,
but it's really also in thatconnection and need for
connection, and so we're, wejust keep scrolling and
scrolling, or seeking andseeking, because we never
(14:13):
actually meet what we're tryingto achieve in that way, because
we really need that face-to-faceconnection to feel better.
Laura (14:25):
Yeah, in social media world there is pretend personas
and there is really more seekinghappening than connecting
happening and more disconnectionhappening than connection
happening.
So the sense of feeling leftout is even increased when we
(14:47):
look at our social media feedand we see, oh, you know, this
person just got engaged, butlike I'm not engaged.
Or oh, this person just boughttheir first house Like I don't
have a house yet.
Or like, oh, this person has,like, this beautiful family and
all these kids and, like youknow, I feel alone in my family
(15:07):
sometimes.
Or I you know.
It's sort of everything thatyou see is basically people
showing their the world whatthey want the world to see and
maybe celebrate moments witheach other.
But if you're feeling like anoutsider, that can be really
upsetting because you mightthink, oh well, I wasn't invited
(15:29):
to that party, or why are allmy friends here and I'm not
coming?
Or I'm not invited or theydidn't tell me about that.
Michaela (15:35):
I'm not coming, or I'm not invited, or they didn't
tell me about that and likeslike oh, this person likes
everybody else's stuff, but theynever like my stuff.
Or you know, oh, I didn't Ididn't get all these likes on
this post.
You know, I must.
Laura (15:50):
people must not like me, yeah, or nobody's looking at my
stuff or nobody's sharing it ornobody's commenting on it.
You know, nobody cares about me.
(16:22):
Um, when my friends post, getall these likes and attention
and whatever, and you know Ithink what's interesting,
there's been studies out thatactually say that girls, young
girls, like middle school girls,using social media, are doing
all this activity.
They're having, like they'redoing tons and tons of social
media activity but they're notactually having fun.
Like they report, like this isnot fun.
I don't like this.
And collectively, um, if youasked a group of kids, um, like
when they survey schools, ifthey want to ban phones in
schools, what happens is theysurvey the kids and if it's like
, would you lose your phone forthe day?
Right, like.
Or if everybody can't usephones, overwhelmingly, it's if
(16:43):
everybody.
If nobody can have it, then I'mfine, right, right, like it's I
can't miss out on if everybodyelse has it, but I don't have it
, but I don't want my phone aslike, if nobody else has their
phone and I don't have my phone,like that's great.
I would love that.
The next generation alpha iscoming up and we're trying to
figure out how do we keep themsafe from these phones.
(17:05):
And if you ask Gen Zers likewould you have been happier if
you didn't have your phone untilyou were 16, 17, or if you were
not allowed to have your phonein school?
And overwhelmingly they say Iwish that I didn't have this,
(17:25):
like I would have waited, I wishthat it was banned in school
for everybody.
Michaela (17:31):
So you know it's a constant comparison again, and
then you're seeking outconnection and you are getting
oh, they didn't they, they, theyleft me on.
Read like oh, they saw it, butthey haven't responded.
And what does that mean?
And it and then just fosteringthe more superficial connections
(17:55):
, right, like is not really trueconnection with somebody.
It's not a conversation, itdoesn't.
It doesn't make strong bondswhere you feel like you can be
yourself.
You still feel like you have tobe this fake version of
yourself that you have to putout there in the world,
otherwise nobody's going to likeme.
Because who could like the realversion of me?
(18:16):
I'm weird, I'm goofy, I'm funny.
And why would I?
Why could I?
How could I be like that toother people?
Because I'm not having thatface-to-face connection where
you can see their actualresponse to the joke that you
made.
Right, you can know that theyactually understood it because
you're face to face.
Laura (18:36):
Well, yeah, and if you do something silly or stupid,
it's not like enshrined forever,it's just an interaction.
It's a moment that you canlearn from.
Like, if I say something thatis like somewhat offensive to
somebody right, which people cando all the time I can
accidentally say something thathurts someone's feelings or
that's insensitive to someoneelse or whatever.
(18:57):
And if I do that in real lifeand that person is like Whoa,
you went too far, like, thatjoke's not funny, then that's a
very different thing than if Isay something and then now all
of a sudden it's plastered onsocial media and somebody's
sharing it and screenshotting itand it goes around and now I'm
just this like horrible monster.
(19:19):
Um, like, I think when we learnhow to communicate online, the
stakes are really high, whereasin-person interactions feel it's
funny, because I think we thinkthat stakes are high, but
they're not.
They're really low.
Low stakes interactions are theones that we learn from.
Low stakes interactions are theones that we have every day
(19:41):
with other people, when we'reinteracting with them, like you
know, over lunch, or you know,when you go order something and
somebody's in line and they askyou a random question and you
interact with that person, likethose are low stakes
interactions, with perfectstrangers even but they help you
develop a connection to yoursense of yourself and your
ability to react and interact inthe world interpersonally.
(20:05):
Right, and nothing bad happenedand nothing bad happened.
And if something did happenwhere somebody's feelings got
hurt, you can repair that inreal time.
Like those repairs matter infriendship, like it turns out
that one bad conversation or oneset of hurt feelings doesn't
ruin a relationship.
(20:26):
Yeah.
Michaela (20:30):
And I think that's hard that have learned that in
order to protect myself, becauseI'm I'm struggling to stop you
from crossing boundaries, it'stoo uncomfortable for me to set
that boundary and maintain itand therefore I must cut you off
completely because I can't befriends with you, because it's
(20:52):
just too uncomfortable, becauseI don't know how to do this
interaction and, and you know,set my boundary and be firm and
kind without, you know, havingto feel uncomfortable.
Laura (21:07):
When you set a boundary and someone respects that
boundary, it's actually reallyempowering and it's helpful and
it makes you feel even moreconnected, right?
Because if someone said to melike, oh, that joke went too far
, like that's not funny, thatreally hurt my feelings, I would
then be able to say, oh my gosh, that's my bad.
Like I didn't mean to hurt yourfeelings, I'm so sorry, that
(21:27):
was completely insensitive of meand you know I won't make jokes
about that in the future.
And then that person can belike oh well, you respect me,
that's quite nice.
Like I set a boundary andnothing bad happened, right?
So that interaction is isreinforcing of, like a sense of
powerful self and importance andand efficacy and validity that
(21:51):
we really need.
We need to know that we areable to have those types of
things in relationships.
Michaela (21:58):
Sure, what about, like vulnerability?
Right, we need to be vulnerableto show who we truly are, and
so you know, do you think thatthat plays a role in feeling
like an outsider Like I?
That that plays a role infeeling like an outsider, like I
(22:19):
don't feel like I can bevulnerable?
Therefore, that's part of whatcauses me to not feel connection
?
Laura (22:23):
Yeah, I think we're protecting ourselves by avoiding
it's.
That defense mechanism, youknow, like this belief that like
I'm just different thaneveryone else, helps me feel
like it's I'm in more controland helps me avoid potential
pain or rejection.
If I'm afraid of rejection orabandonment, or if I've
(22:43):
experienced rejection orabandonment in my childhood or
in my past, then I might be very, very sensitive to other
people's opinions and otherpeople's perspectives and they
might, if they disagree with meor if they don't invite me to
something that can make me feelreally alone and isolated and
abandoned.
And that pain is just too much.
(23:05):
It's too big of a pain becauseit's pain from the past, it's
not really pain about thepresent.
If I have that kind of history,then it might be really hard
for me to put myself out thereand be vulnerable because I
don't believe that I cantolerate the pain again.
I'm really focusing on the past.
It's familiar, right, but it'snot what's happening in the
(23:28):
present.
Michaela (23:29):
You mean I don't have to get invited to everything.
If I'm not invited to stuff,that doesn't mean that I can't
be friends with that person.
Yes, that's correct, that'snovel.
Laura (23:41):
That's exactly right.
And if you don't invite everysingle person, that doesn't make
you a bad friend or a badperson.
Michaela (23:50):
Yeah, I mean, I think that there are things that play
a role in it, right?
How much money do I have tospend?
How much space do I have?
You know, there's factors.
Are these two people are goingto get along?
This is part of this friendgroup and that's part of that
friend group, right, likethere's?
Laura (24:09):
a lot of other sexes, you know, and that might be
awkward.
Yeah, all of those factorsmatter when we're thinking about
what to do and, as an adult,the good news is you can choose
and you can have differentevents with different people and
you can expect that thosepeople feel, or at least respond
(24:31):
, like adults and they caneither share with you you know
like it really hurt my feelingsthat I wasn't invited to that or
they can be excited for you andwhatever you're doing and then
spend time with you on adifferent day.
Michaela (24:44):
Right, or even just be like hey, that sounds like a
lot of fun.
Can we go do that sometime?
Yeah, I would love to go that,you know, I, I, I want to go do
hot yoga.
I want to come with me Like oh,you went to hot yoga Cool,
let's do it together.
Laura (25:00):
Yeah, I love that and I think you know, when we think
about the vulnerability aspectof missing out or feeling miss,
like you're left out, or feelinglike you didn't get invited,
like that does hurt, but it'snot reasonable to expect in any
relationship that you'll neverget hurt and that you'll never
hurt together.
Michaela (25:20):
Right and it's hard to know this, but it's something
that you can learn is that youcan be okay even when you do get
hurt or you hurt somebody else,like unintentionally, or
whatever.
You can be okay and it can's.
And it can be okay and it canget worked out, and that doesn't
(25:42):
mean that the relationship isbad or that person is bad.
Laura (25:48):
Yeah, I think that's a really good start towards
feeling more connected withother people is recognizing that
this pain that I'm feelingdoesn't mean the relationship is
over.
This pain that I'm feelingdoesn't make the other person a
horrible person.
It doesn't make me like Ididn't do anything wrong.
To have to feel this pain, likesometimes pains are just pains.
(26:10):
That's part of life and that'sokay.
We have to go through hardthings, we have to learn how to
tolerate hard things and I thinkmost importantly is that if we
want to feel connected withother people, we have to be
connected with ourselves, and Iknow I say this all the time I'm
going to say it again, but.
I'm going to say it again theantidote to that distress is
(26:31):
that connection with yourself.
If you feel like you're aworthy, valuable person and
you're caring for yourself,you're showing yourself respect,
you're showing yourself dignityand compassion and you are, you
know, believing that you areworthy of connection, then
(26:52):
you're going to have a mucheasier time allowing connection
because you know that, even ifit doesn't work out with that
person, that's not the end ofthe world and it's not the only
possible person for thisconnection to happen with.
Michaela (27:06):
That's so important I think that that is the root of a
lot of the healing.
I mean, I just had thatconversation with a client the
other day about somethingtotally different and ultimately
, the first step is if you don'tbelieve that you're worthy of
love, if you don't love yourself, then you are going to
(27:28):
constantly fear rejectionbecause you aren't really
confident in yourself.
Laura (27:35):
And because you're constantly rejecting yourself.
So when we banish and rejectthose parts of ourselves that we
don't like, or those parts ofourselves that are causing us
pain, or those parts ofourselves that we blame for our
aloneness, if we're constantlybanishing and talking to
ourselves in a really hurtfulway, we're rejecting ourselves,
(27:57):
we're hurting ourselves andwe're perpetuating that pain.
So we can't tolerate that painfrom other people because we're
just constantly in it withourselves.
Right?
Michaela (28:08):
And that kind of comes back to the interactions that
both we kind of had, thoseshared experiences of our
friends misinterpreting what wasgoing on for us, of our friends
misinterpreting our our whatwas going on for us.
And so you're going to be morelikely to misinterpret what the
person is, the person you'retrying to connect with, is
experiencing, because you'rereflecting your own insecurities
(28:30):
on that person and puttingmaking them be believing that
they believe the same thingabout you as well.
Right, and so that's a that's apossible, you know, mind
reading situation.
Where we're, we're in, we'remiss attuning to the situation.
Laura (28:47):
Yeah for sure.
Like I think about when I feellike I can't do anything alone
and I am super dependent, thatcan push people away, and then
when I think, well, nobody caresabout me, I don't matter, like
I don't matter to those people,that pushes people away.
So both ways we're not gettingwhat we need or want, which is
(29:10):
that we want people to see usfor however we are and for who
we really are, and see pastthose fears and flaws and pain
and actually just be excited tosee us.
I think that's what everybodywants.
Michaela (29:26):
I do too.
That sounds like what I want.
Laura (29:31):
Yeah, and so I think we've got to connect with
ourselves first, acknowledgethat we're not perfect people,
but we don't have to be.
We deserve love and connectionand once we get past that pain
we can feel more confident andmore capable of letting people
(29:55):
in and more willing to take thatrisk that we have to take in
order to get that reward ofthose good relationships.
Michaela (30:03):
Yes, yeah, I think that that's good advice.
And then I think too, like youknow, if, if what is going on
for us is a reenactment of ourpast in some kind of way and
maybe we don't really fully see,like we're not really aware of
that, or maybe we are, and so wecan do therapy like EMDR to
(30:29):
help ourselves recognize where,what, the real root of, of what
is causing how we're feelingtoday.
Laura (30:36):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, that's a great.
That's a great point.
And I think you know the one ofthe great books that was
written by the creator of EMDRtherapy is called getting past
your past, which is literally tosay that when the past is
present, you know all of thosefeelings that you have of fear
(30:57):
and abandonment and rejectionand everything else that's going
on with you, and anxiety, andall of that stuff it's amplified
, it's dialed up by 10 becauseit's really reacting to
something old.
It's old stuff that it'sreacting to.
It's not stuff in the present.
And if you can get past thatpast and get into the present,
(31:19):
then you can realize like, oh, Ican tolerate the fact that I
didn't get invited to thatbirthday party and I can still
send like a nice birthday wishand see if they want to have
lunch with me.
Michaela (31:27):
Yeah, One of the things that blew my mind in that
, in like reading that book, wasliterally that this, the stuff
doesn't have to be big, majortrauma.
And I think that a lot, a lotof people are like, well, I
don't really have trauma, Like Ihad a good childhood, I had all
you know, whatever, but eveneven just a thunderstorm where
(31:51):
you cried out for help andnobody helped you can be a
trigger point for some of yourabandonment stuff.
Like something so little, likeI think that was one of the
examples in the book, right Likesomething so little could, or
seemingly so little to us as anadult you know, but it's really
not about our adult beliefsystem.
It's really about how weinterpreted that as a child,
(32:12):
which is so different.
Laura (32:14):
Right.
Our perspective at the time isthe perspective that's still
making us feel afraid, not ourperspective today as an adult,
when we look back.
And so we have to reconcilethose perspectives by accepting
the old one and not banishing it.
We have to accept it and say,like, that makes sense, I'm
attuning to myself, I'm notrejecting myself, and that's
really that connection, thatfirst connection with with
(32:37):
itself, is the first step inhealing, which is so cool, I
know, and I think that's a greatplace to end today.
I think that I will list a linkto the book Getting Past the
Past in the show notes and thatway anybody else who wants to
read it can go and find it.
Yeah, that's a great idea,awesome.
(32:59):
So thank you for listening to.
Why Am I Like this?
If you like our show, pleaseleave us a rating and review on
your favorite podcast platform,follow the show and share it
with your friends.
This episode was written andproduced by me, laura Wood and
Michelle LeBeaver.
Our theme song is Making EndsLeap by Thick as Thieves, and a
(33:20):
special thanks to VeneraryCounseling and Coaching and
Active Healing PsychiatricServices for sponsoring this
show.
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