The Abbotsford Killer - Terry Driver - Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
In the quiet, farming city of Abbotsford, British Columbia, Canada,
no one expected evil to come lurking in the dark,
but in the fall of nineteen ninety five, that is
exactly what happened, when two teenage girls were brutally attacked
in an act so senseless and cruel it shattered the
community sense of safety overnight. What followed was a month's

(00:31):
long man hunt, a chilling game of cat and mouse,
and the unraveling of one of Canada's most disturbing true
crime cases. This is the story of the Abbotsford Killer.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked
and Grim, a.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
True crime podcast.

Speaker 3 (00:53):
The following material in mature Listener, What.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
Did you say on a scale of one.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
To ten, I was like a three, three to five
for how how much you still sound sick?

Speaker 1 (01:26):
How much I still sound sick? It is a bit notous,
a little nasily kind of Is that?

Speaker 2 (01:33):
Maybe that's what it is?

Speaker 1 (01:34):
Yeah, Okay, Well I had a pretty bad cold hit
me a few days ago and we had to skip
last week's episode. Did But I'm here. I'm mostly better.
I'm better than I sound, I think and we're going
to get this cool case going well.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
And thankfully I because I looked at what our last
case was and it was a part two. So thank
goodness this didn't happen in between a part one and
a part two.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
People would have I would have been the subject of
our next case. I would have been yeah, in hot water.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yeah, so I guess if it's good time to get sick,
that was good timing.

Speaker 1 (02:09):
Hey, silver lining, right, yeah, fair enough. So today's case
is actually one requested over on Patreon that's requested by Randall.
So shout out to Randall forgiving us this cool case.
I don't mean cool case.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
That's the second time I said that, but you know
what I mean is case recommendation. There we go gonna
pique our interests.

Speaker 1 (02:28):
You're on it today, you're on fire. But do you
know what else? There's people who are on fire out
there who signed up on our Patreon. Did you know
that those people out there who signed up, Yeah, they're wicked. Yeah,
they're wicked. They're on fire. They're amazing. And their names
are j Megan Kristin, Morals, Richard Court Whitney, Melissa Kellogg,

(02:49):
and Katie Venturo. They're all on fire because they're amazing
and support us and join Patreon.

Speaker 2 (02:55):
Yeah that's awesome, Thank you guys.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
I feel like that was a very forced It's very formal.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
It was yeah, okay, we did not rehearse that, though
it maybe sounded like we did, or it was just
awkward as shit. I don't know one or the other.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
Yeah, oh well, I tried my best.

Speaker 2 (03:09):
Man.

Speaker 1 (03:09):
I'm just gonna blame it on being sick. Still.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
Yeah, I think we're both just over here not feeling
one hundred percent, so bear with us. But we're back
and it's gonna be good.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
We're not feeling one hundred percent, but we're giving it
our hundred percent. That's all that matters, right, is that
you try.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yes, yes, just.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
Don't try too hard because no one likes to try hard,
But just try gosh song.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
As you try your hardest, you can't be upset with yourself.
I feel like I don't think you need to.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
Try your hardest. I just think you need to try
your best. There you go, because there's a difference. Sometimes
the hardest is not what's needed. You just need to
try your best, you know. Yeah, trying too hard can
hurt you or someone else, But trying your best means
you have the good intentions at hand.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
God the moral lesson today it is getting sappy. I
don't even know what to say.

Speaker 1 (03:56):
I'm just like, okay, how about we say let's just
get on with today's episode. How's that.

Speaker 2 (04:01):
I think that's a good plan. Let's do it.

Speaker 1 (04:03):
Okay. It was on the night of Friday, October thirteenth,
nineteen ninety five when something would happen in the Canadian
town of Abbotsford, British Columbia, something that would set into
motion a very large cat and most game between investigators
and a madman.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
Of course, it was a Friday the thirteenth. That's how
every true crime podcast should start.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
Not only that, but it's of course in October as well.
So it's an October Friday the thirteenth.

Speaker 2 (04:30):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (04:30):
So it all started with two teenage girls, sixteen year
old Tanya Smith and her close friend Misty Cockrel, who
were walking through their neighborhood after a small house party. Now,
without warning, a man burst out from behind some hedges
armed with a baseball bat, and in an instant, the
girls were ambushed. The attacker with a weapon in hand,

(04:51):
forced Tanya and Misty off the road and into a dark,
bushy area. Now, as panic set in, the man then
ordered them to remove their clothes. Now it was two
against one. Though yes, he was wielding a baseball bat
to you know, show he meant business. But in the terror,
as Tanya complied and began unbuttoning her shirt, Misty stopped.

(05:13):
She refused to go Quietly. She thought to herself, He's
gonna kill us, whether we listened to him or not, so,
you know what, I might as well fight back. So
she did, even managing to actually grab the bat and
strike the assailant a little bit in this battle, we'll
call it in a desperate bid. Now, however, the attacker did,

(05:35):
you know, manage to get that bat back. He was
much stronger. He overpowered Misty and savagely beat her with
that bat, striking her head repeatedly over and over until
she blacked out.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
Wow, okay, this is savage he Now.

Speaker 1 (05:52):
With Misty beaten unconscious, the attacker left her for dead
and turned his attention to Tanya. Alone and defenseless, she
suffered unspeakable violence at this man's hand. Now, incredibly speaking,
Misty eventually regained consciousness after this attack, but also after

(06:13):
the attacker had already fled. Now it was sometime in
the early hour of October fourteenth. As she slowly opened
her eyes, she was dazed and seriously hurt, but she
managed to get to her feet and stumble out of
the bushes and make her way to a nearby building,
which was Abbotsford Hospital. Severely wounded with multiple skull fractures,

(06:36):
this sixteen year old was rushed into emergency surgery, clinging
to her life. Now, police, of course, soon arrived on
the scene as hospital staff had called and reported the
injured girl who had just stumbled through their doors. Now,
Misty was very incoherent and drifting in and out of consciousness,
but from her fragmented statements, police began to grasp the

(06:57):
horrors of what had actually just happened. She mumbled about
a man, a man with a bat, and how she
thought she was going to die now. Most chillingly, throughout
all this, Misty repeatedly begged for her friend, saying where's Tanya,
Where's Tanya? Over and over. Police immediately launched a search

(07:20):
to locate Tanya Smith. Officers combed around the area of
the attack site that they thought this took place on
foot and with dogs looking for any trace of the
missing girl, and unfortunately they found disturbingly little, no obvious
blood trail or weapon left behind. There was just nothing.
It seemed the attacker had taken Tanya with him, and

(07:41):
as dawn broke the desperate search extended beyond Abbotsford as
they knew they knew it was possible she may have
been taken out of the city.

Speaker 2 (07:50):
That's pretty incredible of Misty that she is in this
kind of shape and still you know, so concerned about
her friend and like hoping she's safe and able to
give the police, I guess everything she has in order
to you know, hopefully find her friend.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
For sure, the idea that she was, yeah, like most
in first and foremost like concerned for her friend's safety
in that state of mind more or less is incredible.

Speaker 2 (08:17):
Yeah, it's really good.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
So that is a big thing going through this is
regardless of the situation she's in, she's willing to help
the police do the best of her her ability. So
major props to her for all of that. Now. Meanwhile,
later that morning, about twenty kilometers away, a fisherman made
a grim discovery on the banks of the Vetter River

(08:41):
near chilliwac he spotted clothing tangled in bushes along a
river path. The site of bloody clothes hanging in a tree, well,
it was enough for him to call police there on
the spot, and when investigators arrived, they followed the trail
of strung up clothes almost like kinda they were put
there on purpose, like.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
A trail of sorts, yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:04):
Like breadcrumbs leading someone somewhere. And as they followed these
clothes strung up in trees, sure enough they found a
body laying in the shallow waters of the cold river.
Immediately before they even know identified the remains, they had
an idea of who they had just found, as reports
of the missing girl had already circulated. They called the

(09:26):
Abbotsford Police for a photo of Tanya, and with that
it didn't take long to confirm the worst The victim was,
in fact Tanya Smith damn Hey, the bright and bubbly
sixteen year old who had simply been walking to a
party with her friend was now dead. Tanya was found
nude when she was pulled from the river. It appeared

(09:48):
the killer had attempted to destroy evidence by washing her
in the waters, and her autopsy later revealed that Tanya
had suffered severe blunt force trauma. She'd clearly been beaten
vicious with a blunt object, consistent with Misty's account of
a baseball bat being used. Now in fact, the beating
alone it was likely fatal. But tragically, Tanya was still

(10:12):
alive when she was dragged into the water. Her ultimate
cause of death was drowning.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
Oh seriously, yeah, Oh my goodness. Okay, So okay, both
these girls I feel like, are just tough as shit
really for enduring everything that they went through and like
her ultimately was drowning.

Speaker 1 (10:31):
Yeah, exactly. So they're pretty strong both for sure. So
for the investigators and the community, Tanya's murder was very
hard to digest. Abbotsford had never seen such a brutal crime,
and people were horrified that a violent predator capable of
this was on the loose. Police vowed to catch the

(10:53):
killer quickly, but they had very few leads to work with.
In fact, Misty Cockrell, the sole survivor and witness to
the case, couldn't even help investigators because she had now
slipped into a coma following some brain surgery which left
her unable to assist. All authorities really knew was that

(11:15):
this perpetrator was extremely dangerous, that he might strike again
if not caught, and he was still on the loose.
So everyone got to work and forensic specialists began analyzing
the evidence available from Tanya's autopsy. They collected a vaginal
swab which confirmed what police suspected. Tanya had been sexually assaulted.

(11:38):
But this also meant that with seamen being recovered, it
gave investigators a chance to develop a DNA profile of
this attacker. However, in nineteen ninety five, DNA testing, while
it took time, it was in its infancy. Really potentially
weeks or even months is how long this could be
to process, and the results would be useless until a

(11:59):
suspect was identified for comparison. So they need DNA to
compare with this DNA basically, and if they don't have that,
all they have is, you know, an end on a trail,
nowhere to go from there.

Speaker 2 (12:13):
So it helps like solidify if they catch the person.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
Yes, but it doesn't help find the person. So DNA
alone wasn't going to crack this case, let alone stopping
a potential another murder. Now, another disturbing piece of evidence
emerged from this autopsy, the medical examiner discovered a bitemark
on Tanya's body, specifically on her right breast. It appeared

(12:39):
as though the killer had bitten her, likely during the
sexual assault, leaving a very clear impression of his teeth
in her skin.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
Oh my gosh, that's disturbing as.

Speaker 1 (12:50):
Shit right now, this gruesome detail. It was immediately classified
and it was held back for you know, for evidence
that the public wouldn't see. It was crucial information that
police decided to keep secret from the public. Only the
killer and the investigators knew about this bitemark, that was it.

(13:11):
So if anyone came forward with that knowledge, or maybe
a killer brag, perhaps the police would be sure they
had their right man. Meanwhile, a forensic dentist created casts
of the bitemark. The impressions showed distinctive dental features which
were chipped and crooked teeth, and even in alignment, it

(13:32):
was almost like a signature of a perpetrator's bite. I'm
sure we could all run our tongue along our teeth
right now and feel little imperfections that might be signatures
to our teeth as well. It was very same. It's
kind of like a fingerprint, you know, identifying you and
what your teeth would look like. Investigators also tried to
comb the physical crime scene for clues. Now, they found

(13:53):
a spot they believed could have been the Abbotsford attack site.
They found what seemed to be signs of struggles in
the bush where they thought the girls could have been attacked.
But there were some footprints and broken vegetation. But that
doesn't mean an attack really, because this is a public
open space. It could have been anyone who had gone
through there and left those.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
Marks, even someone walking a dog right.

Speaker 1 (14:17):
Exactly now, even it could be the crime scene, but
who's to say it hasn't been walked through since or
it's not even the spottle together Now over in Chiliwac,
at the location where Tanya's body had been dumped, police
discovered tire tracks near the remote river access point, as
well as a set of bootprints on the trail. Plaster
casts were made of both the tire impressions and the footprints,

(14:39):
just in case they ended up matching a suspects vehicle
or shoes later on. At this early stage, though, there
was no way of knowing if those tracks were left
by the killer or again another innocent person accessing the area.
They were merely potential clues filed away for future analysis. Now,
things were all over the place for this investigation. To

(15:00):
say the least, authorities were scrambling to find any real
clues to help point themselves towards the murderer. Then it
was just days after the killing had happened when the
case took an unexpected and very chilling turn. The killer
began calling the police.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
Oh my goodness, I was not expecting that, But just
such an asshole move.

Speaker 1 (15:23):
Hey, like the arrogance, yeah, oh, trust me, this guy's
arrogance is uncomprehendible.

Speaker 2 (15:31):
Okay, Well, I was just sitting here thinking he sure
wasn't really covering up any of his shit that he
was doing. But I guess maybe he didn't really care to.
If he's freaking calling the police.

Speaker 1 (15:43):
Now, well you'll soon learn what he's all about, trust me.
It started with a phone call to the Abbotsford Police
Department's non emergency line. A male caller spoke with a
disturbing mix of smugness and menace in his voice. He
also claimed to have information about the murder and directed
officers to check out the area behind some trees near

(16:03):
a walkway as if guiding them to the actual crime scene.
When the police dispatcher pressed him on how he knew
of this spot, the man confessed outright, quote, I'm the killer,
and he to prove it, added a ghastly detail, quote,
her right nipple tasted pretty good.

Speaker 2 (16:24):
Oh gosh, imagine having to speak to that person. Hey,
no kidding, Oh, that just gives me the heavy gbs.

Speaker 1 (16:34):
Yeah. Well, this stomach turning statement, it sent a jolt
through the investigators. And rightfully, so, they're on the phone
with this guy, and this caller clearly knew about the
bite mark on Tani's body, something that was never released publicly,
so only the investigation team and the killer would know
it's there. So in that moment, they knew this was
not a prank caller. They knew this was the real

(16:56):
guy and he was calling to taunt them. So the
converseation continued, and it was laced with the man's creepy bravado.
He dared the police to catch him, sneering why don't
you try and catch me if you can, and boasting
that he was going to kill again. Soon police traced
the call to a payphone. In fact, it was one
that was outside a local Arena in Abbotsford, only a

(17:17):
few blocks away from the police station. Patrol cars raced
the phone booth within minutes of the call, getting there
as fast as they could, but the killer had already
ended the call and fled from the scene.

Speaker 2 (17:31):
Yeah, I'm sure he did. I also just have to say, though,
no one should be this confident.

Speaker 1 (17:37):
Just you wait, okay, just you wait, because, like I said,
it is uncomprehendible the metaphorical balls on this man. So
at the scene at that phone booth, forensic teams dusted
for prints or any sort of evidence left behind. Right,
he had clearly just been there holding the phone. But

(17:59):
when they dust and checked, there was nothing. No usable
fingerprints were recovered. But as they were dusting for those prints,
as they're sitting there processing the scene at that phone booth,
another call came into the police department. The voice on
the other end of the phone scoffed and said, quote,
do you think I'd be stupid enough to leave my

(18:21):
fingerprints behind when I make a phone call? He knew
exactly what they were doing. He was watching them and
mocking them.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
Oh my gosh, that is just okay. This guy is
a frickin' piece of shit.

Speaker 1 (18:37):
But I want to highlight this, this statement from this guy.
I want to highlight it because we will be coming
back to it. So I'm gonna say it one more time.
Quote do you think I'd be stupid enough to leave
my fingerprints behind when I make a phone call?

Speaker 2 (18:52):
End?

Speaker 1 (18:52):
Quote? It's a very important statement. We will come back
to that.

Speaker 2 (18:57):
Okay, well, I do think this guy is stupid as shit.

Speaker 1 (19:00):
Fair enough, so, the unknown man was clearly toying with
the authorities, deliberately relishing in it. Even and he hung
up before the second phone call could be traced. It
seems the killer was steps ahead, successfully pulling off a
very dangerous game of cat and mouse with the law enforcement.
And over the next few weeks, more calls would come in.

(19:21):
Each time this killer he would now be taunting investigators
just the same, with new threats and everything. In another call,
he laced with cackling laughter warnings about are you having
trouble finding the killer? I'm the one. I'll be driving
around looking for someone else, just to let you know
who I am. So he's, like I said, the proverbial

(19:45):
balls and he's pushing hard.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
But here I was literally just thinking, Okay, well, this
is good that he's putting his effort into this rather
than hurting someone else.

Speaker 1 (19:53):
But well, the thing is though, taunting them that with that,
he's saying he's going to hurt someone else's That's the
message he said them, he intends to attack again, and
he was enjoying this whole pursuit and the mocking. So
Abbotsford residents learning bits from this news report and everything,
they were terrified to this guy calling in and you know,
treating police like this, mocking them. He was an elusive

(20:16):
boogeyman to say he's out there seemingly at any point,
and he's brazen enough to taunt them like that. It
was enough to send a chill down everyone's spine. And
the effect of these tauntings, the calls, all of it,
it was profound on the community. The city of Abbotsford
had once prided itself on being a family friendly place
and safe enough to you know, have a family, little

(20:38):
farm in the area, but now it was trapped under
a state of fear. Women were afraid to go out
at night, parents kept their teenagers on tight leashes, and police,
for their part, had to walk a very fine line.
They didn't want to incite panic, but they did need
the public's help and vigilance, and they did need to
warn them so that they are also safe now. After

(21:00):
one particularly disturbing call in which the killer threatened to
bite another victim, the police made the tough decision to
actually release portions of the caller's audio to the media,
alongside with warnings about the threat. Hearing the killer's actual
voice was startling. His tone was odd and casual, almost playful,
as he threatened the town with more violence. But still

(21:22):
it was just little clips they released, And in the
midst of all this terror and fearmongering, Abbotsford held a
heart wrenching funeral for Tanya Smith. The community turned out
in large numbers to support Tanya's family and honor the
murdered girl. Undercover officers quietly attended to mingling with mourners,

(21:43):
and investigators had a hunch the killer well, they thought
he might not be able to resist showing up to
revel in the aftermath of his crime. Behavior like this
is not exactly unheard of with violent predators seeking to
relive that excitement, so.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
Especially if he's making calls and stuff to.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
The cops right exactly, it seems like something he'd do.
So video cameras were discreetly filming the crowd the entire time.
Anyone who was coming to the service and leaving, they
all had their face on camera, capturing every single one
of them to see potentially, you know what, looking back,
if the murderer was there or not seeing if he's
hidden in plain sight. Now, at the time, this was

(22:23):
merely a shot in the dark. The police still had
no name or face for the culprit. It was just
Misty's vague description and the taunting voice on the phone. Meanwhile,
Misty did remain under close protection. Now Remarkably, after a
month after the attack, on November seventeenth, nineteen ninety five,
she did actually manage to wake up from her coma,

(22:44):
and she gradually recovered enough to leave the hospital. She
would survive good. Yeah, her survival was honestly nearly as
miraculous as the as it was courageous to be honest,
because despite the grievous injuries, she pulled through multiple brain
surgeries and even actually began to heal from it all.

(23:04):
But the moment Misty could communicate clearly, officers realized she
was still in danger. The killer calling hinting you know
what next time could easily mean he intended to finish
the job targeting Misty. She could be the one victim
who got away. She could be the one victim to
get him caught.

Speaker 2 (23:23):
Well yeah, and also he probably when he left expected
that she wouldn't have made it right.

Speaker 1 (23:28):
Exactly, So they're thinking she could be in serious danger. Dang.
They weren't about to take any chances, and they promptly
placed Misty and her family in a witness protection program, so,
in the dead of night, under secrecy, Misty was relocated
hundreds of kilometers away. She had to assume a low
profile kind of lifestyle and could not even contact her

(23:49):
friends back home. It was a life totally upended. Not
only had she lost her best friend, but now she
was essentially in hiding, haunted by the possibility that this
killer might come after her. Misty herself later described it
as being revictimized. Even when she was finally out of
the hospital, she couldn't truly go home or resume a

(24:12):
normal life while the killer roamed free, he still had
that power over her.

Speaker 2 (24:16):
Well, yeah, I couldn't only imagine because instead of say,
going out and like distracting yourself. She really can't do
any of that stuff, so she's just kind of having
to sit there and have things probably relive in her
mind and replay I mean and ugh.

Speaker 1 (24:31):
Yeah. Now Misty's recovery, it also brought a ray of
hope to the investigation. Now she was the only eyewitness.
She was the person there who saw his face. So
as soon as she was able to, investigators gently interviewed
Misty for details about that night and the man who
attacked them. Despite the trauma and the head injuries, Misty

(24:53):
was determined to help catch Tanya's killer, so peace by piece,
she recalled what she could. The attacker was roughly in
his late twenties or thirties, with a medium build. He
had an unkempt appearance, as she remembered, scraggly, frizzy hair
that might have been brownnish red, kind of possibly thinning
balding on top. He wore a noticeable mustache and thin lips,

(25:15):
and she also remembered his voice. There was something odd
about the way he spoke, an unusual inntation or accent
that she couldn't quite place, but she would recognize if
she heard it again. With Misty's input, police artists drew
up a composite sketch of the suspect, and that sketch
was released publicly, with police urging anyone who might recognize

(25:38):
the man to come forward. The description, however, it was
still fairly generic, unfortunately, a white male in his twenties
or thirties with a mustache that honestly fit any number
of local men, and it, along with many other details,
generated a lot of tips. People were calling in with
all sorts of vague suspicions about neighbors or ex boyfriends,

(26:00):
and each tip, well, it had to be checked, and
the task force, now encompassing multiple police agencies in the region,
worked around the clock to chase leads, no matter how thin.
One of the promising leads that emerged was when two
young men came forward saying they had met Tanya and
Misty on the night of the attack. These teens revealed

(26:23):
they had given the girls a ride part way home
from a party that evening, dropping them off near the
spot where they were actually attacked. It seems as though
they had gone their separate ways just minutes before the
assault had actually taken place. Investigators interviewed these young men thoroughly.
After all, they were the last or among the last
see Tanya and Misty before the crime, and the boys

(26:45):
cooperated fully. They provided fingerprints, shoe impressions, and even let
police examine the tire treads on their car, none of
which matched the evidence from the scene. Also, their alibis
checked out for the rest of the night too. They
were just good Samarrits, who happened to cross paths with
the girl, came forward to provide the information they had
and to clear their name of suspicion. Now another tip

(27:08):
that they had received seemed a little more ominous. Someone
suggested a local trouble maker known for violence against women
could potentially be responsible. This suspect had a history of
assaults and was rumored to carry a baseball bat in
his vehicle. He also looked very similar to the composite
sketch that was released to the public. Police soon brought

(27:29):
this man in for investigation and for interrogation, but under scrutiny,
he was very adamant that he was not involved at all,
and even offered his own fingerprints to end dental impressions
to clear his name. He did this voluntarily, and police
took him up on the offer. Forensic analysis compared the

(27:51):
teeth cast to the bitemarks on Tanya and his voice
even to the recorded calls. They had him read many
scripts and things that the guy had said, trying to
compare hair of things, trying to find similarities. But everything
he provided, none of it was a match. The bite
pattern was different, the vocal characteristics didn't line up, you
name it. Nothing. Misty herself also, when seeing him in person,

(28:14):
could not positively say if he was the attacker or not.
So with no evidence tying him to the crime, that
suspect too was eliminated. The investigation seemed to be right
back at square one, and the frustration it was mounting.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
I just have to say, I think it's kind of
funny sometimes the tips that come in and people are like, well,
I know this guy, he's super sketchy or he's a
super asshole, like he would have had you have done this,
and they're just like turning in their neighbors or anyone
that they think just you know, is not of right
mind or whatever.

Speaker 1 (28:46):
But the thing is sometimes they're right.

Speaker 2 (28:49):
Sometimes they are yes.

Speaker 1 (28:50):
Right, Like an out on a limb tip could be
the tip that could be the right guy, you make
a statement wearing like, oh my ex boyfriend, he's crazy.
He has a baseball bat in his truck and he
threatened me once. Maybe you are just kind of, you know,
trying to get your ex boyfriend arrested for nefarious reasons
for your own self gain.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
But who knows, Maybe it is actually them.

Speaker 1 (29:14):
Maybe he's actually flipped a switch and he did do it,
and your information actually provides the trail to find him.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
Yeah, so I mean it is important, but also I
think it is just someone doesn't like someone, and there's
sometimes under the bus.

Speaker 1 (29:27):
You know, you're right, definitely. Now, winter soon set in
and months passed with no arrest. The taunting phone calls well,
they eventually tapered off to leaving police to wonder if
the killer had gone underground, or maybe worse, if he
had moved on to pran victims elsewhere. But then, in
February of nineteen ninety six, the Abbotsford killer made a

(29:48):
dramatic reappearance, not with a phone call this time, but
with a twisted public stunt instead. It was February seventeenth,
when employees at a local radio station were radio max
in abbots Ford. To be specific, arrived in the morning
to a very bizarre site. There, Sitting on the hood
of one of the station's brand new news vans was

(30:11):
a gravestone. Shockingly, it was the actual headstone from Tanya
Smith's grave. It had been stolen from the cemetery and
placed on the hood of this vehicle.

Speaker 2 (30:24):
Oh wow, okay, I was hoping that it wasn't, but
that is that is just beyond cruel.

Speaker 1 (30:31):
Well to go even further, the headstone had been defaced
with black marker wow or profane graffiti and had an
ominous message directed at Misty Amid. The scrawls were words
like next time Misty or as some reports stated, one
day Misty. There's a couple conflicting reports, but either way,

(30:53):
they was saying she's.

Speaker 2 (30:54):
Next hey, this guy, because I bet you at this point,
like Misty was starting to almost get confidence back, potentially potentially,
and then this guy has to just go and do
something like this, Are you freaking kidding me?

Speaker 1 (31:06):
Yeah, it's a salt in the wound or a twist
of the knife. Right.

Speaker 2 (31:09):
Well, then he already like murdered Tanya and he's just
oh my gosh, okay, that is just not okay.

Speaker 1 (31:15):
I know I know, defacing her grave like that, let alone, Like,
how do you think her family felt? Well, yeah, they
finally have their daughter at rest and they're trying to
make peace with the situation and then her grave gets defaced. Yeah, Like,
how low does this guy go? He is a piece
of shit.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
Just complete scum.

Speaker 1 (31:33):
Now. There was also an arrow drawn on the engraved
photo of Tanya, pointing to the exact spot where the
bite mark was.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
Seriously, okay, this is getting to be too much.

Speaker 1 (31:45):
Yeah, I basically pissed. It's almost like he's kind of
trying to flex his handiwork if you will.

Speaker 2 (31:52):
This guy is just whole I could. Okay, So people
like this, it's just they should not exist.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
Right. So in this exact instance, once again they knew
they weren't dealing with a prank or a copycat of
any sort. This was the guy who actually committed it,
because again that detail was not public knowledge. Now, this
radio station incident sent waves of renewed terror through Abbotsford.
The killer had escalated his psychological warfare, essentially desecrating Tanya's

(32:24):
memory to specifically torment Misty and the entire community. Police
wisked Misty's family to yet another secret location after this,
knowing that the killer was in fact actively fixated on her.
Then just two days later, a mysterious delivery appeared. It
was a heavy wrench wrapped in paper and tape and

(32:46):
hurled through the window of a random Abbotsford home in
the middle of the night. The homeowners were jolted awake
by the sound of shattering glass and they found the
wrench on their living room floor with the note taped
around it. Now the note was a deep page letter
from the killer. In it, he claimed credit for a
string of other assaults in the area over the past year.
As well, he described three earlier attacks on females, incidents

(33:10):
that indeed had occurred, but until then were unsolved and
not really publicly linked to anyone or each other. By
detailing these crimes, the writer was clearly attempting to get
acknowledgment for more of his work and to further you know,
his intimidation on the community. The letter also contained yet
more threats against Misty's life too. It was the ravings

(33:33):
of a deeply disturbed individual who clearly enjoyed the power
of terrorizing others. However, this time the killers growing brash.
Theatrics would backfire on him. Remember when I said that
statement would be important later.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
Oh you're kidding.

Speaker 1 (33:52):
Do you think I would be dumb enough to leave
fingerprints behind when to make a phone call? Oh? Well,
you see, when a mbling the package, he made a
very critical error, and the tape investigators carefully and wrapped
the tape that secured the letter to the wrench, and
on the sticky side of the tape, they lifted a
very clear fingerprint from it.

Speaker 2 (34:13):
Oh my gosh, that is a complete idiot.

Speaker 1 (34:17):
Well, think of he's probably wearing gloves committing most of
these crimes, right, and as he's taping this thing to
the wrench, I imagine catching that fucking edge on the
tape to lift it up. We all have trouble fighting
it and getting at times, right, So he's probably trying
to lift that tape, couldn't get it, took off his
glove to use his fingernail, got a hold of it

(34:39):
and put a very clear fingerprint on it in the process.
And he didn't think twice about it.

Speaker 2 (34:46):
Literally, every time I tape anything up, I think about
my fingerprint being on this tape. I don't know why.
It's kind of odd, but yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:52):
Well, clearly he didn't. He didn't the man that had
previously taunted police with a phone call saying he wouldn't
be so dumb to leave fingerprints behind, Well, now he
had left one behind.

Speaker 2 (35:03):
He was so dumb.

Speaker 1 (35:04):
He was so dumb, he left a fingerprint.

Speaker 2 (35:06):
In his own words.

Speaker 1 (35:07):
Yeap, this was the breakthrough they desperately needed. As soon
as they could, they ran the print through the National
Fingerprint database and it came up empty.

Speaker 2 (35:18):
Oh what the hell, ben here? I literally just relax
for a hot minute. Sorry, then you're like, nope, okay,
thank you for that.

Speaker 1 (35:28):
So, to the tasks force astonishment, the fingerprint did not
match any known criminal in the system, which meant the
person they were hunting had no prior criminal record, a
total clean slate.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
Okay, well that's disappointing.

Speaker 1 (35:44):
Well, this revelation upended much of the profiler's assumption about
who they were dealing with, because up until now they
had theorized that such a confident, sadistic offender like this
probably had a history of violence or you know, run
ins with law enforcement previously. But now it appeared they
were chasing someone who had managed to avoid being caught

(36:05):
for any past crimes. Even despite his boats and claims
of previous assaults in his recent letter. Now, another intriguing
clue from the letter was his language. Whoever wrote it
used some interesting terminology, things like mo, which of course
we know means modus operandi, and he used very formal

(36:26):
phrasing such as attempted a sexual assault when referring to
his crimes. Now, these words are more commonly found in
police reports than in everyday conversation like officers and like honestly,
we in true crime. In the true crime world, we
are used to these terms when we listen to it
and when we discussed cases and everything we watch the
shows on Netflix. We hear it. We know this, But

(36:49):
think of when you talk to someone who's not in
the true crime world, how many conversations have you had
with them? And they kind of look at you weird
for how you're speaking, the terminology you use. It's not
normal for the public to use that sort of verbage.

Speaker 2 (37:02):
Holy shit, is this person like a police officer or something?

Speaker 1 (37:05):
Well, that's kind of the thing. It spoke volumes to investigators.
It hinted that this killer could be someone with insider
knowledge of police procedures, or at least a fascination with
law enforcement, so it brought up the uncomfortable question could
their suspect be a cop or someone close to the police,
even potentially, could it be someone working on this very investigation.

Speaker 2 (37:27):
That's a gross feeling.

Speaker 1 (37:29):
The notion was so unsettling, but they couldn't ignore it.
So facing a killer this brazen Abbotsford police knew they
had to up their game, and they decided, instead of
waiting for him to strike again, they were going to
come up with a plan called Operation mouse Trap. It
was an operation a plan to lure the killer into

(37:52):
making a mistake. So Operation Mousetrap relied on the fact
that he had a habit of calling police to brag.
They decided to use that specifically against him. With the
help of technicians, they outfitted all local payphones with an
advanced tracing system. So from now on, any call coming

(38:14):
into the police station from these payphones would be automatically
traced within seconds without the killer even knowing, meaning they
would know exactly which payphone they were calling from before
they even picked up the phone. That's really smart. He
dials and it goes ring ring, it's already traced, So

(38:36):
with not even talking to officers yet, and they already
know where the call's coming from.

Speaker 2 (38:40):
And those are seconds or a minute or whatever that
he would not even.

Speaker 1 (38:43):
Account for exactly. So Additionally, undercover officers were also stationed
in unmarked cars near clusters of phone booths around town,
ready to pounce immediately if any suspicious call was traced.
So with all of this set, police would be able
to be on the scene at the correctly identified payphone

(39:05):
anyone in the city in about a minute or less
of the call being placed.

Speaker 2 (39:11):
But how do they know. They're you know, not just
giving this information to this person too, if he's part
of the force, right.

Speaker 1 (39:21):
Well, that's true, right, But I don't think they really
believed anyone was who's part of the force specifically, was
capable of it. It's a possibility, but it was so
far fetched. They weren't there yet. It was more mostly well,
this guy's probably got a half knowledge at least of it,
maybe X cop, maybe just obsessed with who knows, But
the idea of it actually being someone on the force,

(39:42):
it was so far out there. But it was a
real possibility. But I will be honest, it wasn't the case.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
In this Okay, real good, good So next.

Speaker 1 (39:50):
The police crafted a carefully worded public announcement, one that
they hoped would draw the killer out and tempt him
to call the police. They issued a press release updating
the case, suddenly suggesting that well, they were kind of
stumped and perhaps dialing back the urgency of the investigation.
So the idea was basically to plan the killer's ego

(40:13):
to be like, Haha, I've got you, you can't figure
it out, I'm the killer, to play on that and
get him to respond or boast calling the police. But
the Abbotsford killer didn't take the bait.

Speaker 2 (40:26):
Oh he didn't bite, you're kidding me.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
Days passed and no calls came in. Investigators began to
worry that he'd gotten spooked or gone silent once again,
and as the final trump card, they decided to confront him,
well with himself. They took the unprecedented step of releasing
full audio recordings of the killer's voice, not just statements

(40:52):
or quotes or anything like that. We're talking actual full
recordings from the phone calls, and they released it directly
to the media. In early May of nineteen ninety six,
local radio and TV stations broadcast these eerie clips of
the anonymous caller saying phrases like catch me if you
can and I'm the one who did it. The hope

(41:13):
was that someone out there would recognize that very distinctive voice,
that very specific speech pattern they had captured. It was
a gamble, for sure, but thankfully it paid off. It
was within only hours of the broadcast going out to
the public that a call came in that would finally

(41:35):
turn the tide of this cat and mouse race. A
woman phoned in and she told police she recognized the voice.
Investigators they were happy their tactic work, but she's on
the phone and she told them that voice it belonged
she believed to her son.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
Oh okay, that's a tough That would be a tough
call for her.

Speaker 1 (42:00):
It would be. But she said the more she listened,
the more the man in the audio clip, well, the
more it sounded like her son, and the more certain
she became. But that's not all. She also shared some
alarming information. Her son had made a very bizarre comment recently,
a few in fact, telling his brother quote you don't

(42:20):
know me, you don't know what I'm capable of end quote,
And she knew he was often off fishing in the
Vetta River, which is exactly where Tanya's body was found.
The name of this woman who called was Audrey Tye,
and her tip instantly gave investigators a solid suspect, her
very son, Terry Driver. Now Terry was a thirty one

(42:44):
year old resident of Abbitsford. Far from the drifter or
you know, the fringe loner many imagined the killer could be.
In fact, he was shocking the ordinary on the surface.
He was married with two young children, held a steady
job as a printer at a local print shop, and
Terry also came from a police family. His late father
had been highly respected as a sergeant in the Vancouver

(43:07):
Police Department. In his youth, Terry himself had even aspired
to become a police officer, but was rejected from the
force with reasons really only being speculated. This background, well,
it suddenly became a massive red flag. Terry would have
been familiar with police procedures terminology, which explained the letter's language,

(43:27):
and he likely knew how investigators worked, which meant why
he was so confident in taunting the cops. He also
owned scanners to eavesdrop on police radio communications, meaning he
could listen in real time to officers responding to his
own stunts. Despite his normalcy outward, though Terry did have

(43:47):
a bit of a troubled past. While he had no
criminal record, it later emerged that he had spent time
in his psychiatric care facility for teenagers due to violent behavior,
which is the main speculation around him being turned down
from joining the police. But I digress now, though police
feared that all that latent violence had exploded into this

(44:10):
series of crimes terrorizing Abbotsford. So with all this information,
surveillance was set up on Terry immediately and discreetly unmarked
units tailed him while detectives gathered as much evidence and
things in his background that they could. They discovered that
on the nights the key phone calls were made to police,

(44:32):
Terry had conveniently taken night shifts off work or was
otherwise absent from work, so it fit the timeline perfectly.
Anytime he was away from work, the calls seemed to
just so happen to line up and come in. He
also did not resemble the composite sketch very closely, though,
but still given Audrey's detailed tips and saying that it

(44:55):
was her son, the circumstantial links police had strong reason
to suspect they finally found their man. To be sure, though,
they needed direct evidence, so investigators approached Terry carefully. At first.
He was taken aback, but he was kind of cooperative,
but in a guarded way. He agreed to come in

(45:16):
for an interview, but denied any involvement in the murder
or the attack. In fact, he seemed to almost be
offended even when he was considered as a suspect, and
as soon as he realized he may be an actual
suspect in the investigation, he quickly invoked his right for
legal counsel and refused to speak any further. So, since
he wasn't arrested at this point and there's no warrant

(45:38):
in play, Terry refused to provide DNA, which was by
all means his full right to do so at the time.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
Yeah, it was.

Speaker 1 (45:47):
However, interestingly enough, remember that statement I said would be
so important. It's going to come up again here. I
wouldn't be so stupid to leave my fingerprints behind, right
mm hmm. Well, interestingly enough, he did consent to give
his fingerprints.

Speaker 2 (46:07):
Oh okay, because he would have thought they would.

Speaker 1 (46:11):
Not have this on him exactly so he agreed to
give his fingerprints, but only in the presence of his lawyer.
It appeared to police that Terry, if he was in
fact the killer, believed his own boast so much that
he left no Prince behind for police to find that
he was so bold to actually give his prints directly
to them to fake clear his name from suspicion. Now,

(46:34):
when police compared the fingerprints that he gave them to
the ones lifted from the tape, the unique loops and
whirls of Terry Driver's thumb matched perfectly with the print
the killer left behind.

Speaker 2 (46:48):
What did I say earlier too? No one should be
this confident.

Speaker 1 (46:52):
Ake exactly now you were everything you were saying. I'm
just inside like, oh my god, she has no idea
she's gonna love this.

Speaker 2 (46:59):
Well, well, yeah, unbelievable.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
Yeah, no, he had the balls, but he was stupid
enough to still do it.

Speaker 2 (47:06):
Yeah, Like, I mean your fingerprint and tape, I don't know,
I just that's really rookie, right there.

Speaker 1 (47:13):
Yeah. Now, analysis found eleven points of identification in common
with the Prince, an incontrovertible match. So in May of
nineteen ninety six, it seemed he wasn't careful enough, and
Terry Driver was arrested and charged as the Abbotsford killer.
After seven months of fear and uncertainty, the community breathed

(47:35):
a collective sigh of relief.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
Well, I'm sure glad he wasn't careful right, that he
did make a mistake. Yeah, I'm also just sitting here
shook though that you had said he was married with kids.

Speaker 1 (47:50):
Correct he was, which is very disturbing I know. Now.
As soon as Terry was under arrest, the floodgates of
evidence opened up even further. A search of his home
and belongings turned up some damning evidence. Police seese Driver's
computer and printer. Forensic analysis later showed that the taunting
letters were produced using his printer. The typeface and formatting

(48:14):
matched exactly. The investigators also obtained a warrant for his
dental impressions. When forensic dentists compared casts of his teeth
to the bite marks on Tanya's breast, well, it again
matched perfectly, down to the crooked tooth alignment and chipped edges. Finally,
the team got the long awaited results of the DNA test,

(48:35):
the DNA profile from semen recovered from Tania Smith's body.
Was matched against a sample of Terry's blood. Statistically, the
odds of the DNA belonging to anyone else other than
Terry Driver was astronomically small, to the order of trillions
to one.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
Thank got him.

Speaker 1 (48:57):
There's not even that many people on planet Earth.

Speaker 2 (49:00):
Yeah, gotcha.

Speaker 1 (49:01):
His DNA also matched saliva traces found on the bite
mark as well, so, in short, science left zero room
for doubt that the man in custody was the very
same person who had committed those horrific crimes. To top
it all off, when investigators reviewed the surveillance footage from

(49:21):
Tanya's funeral with fresh eyes, they spotted terror amongst the crowd.
The killer had indeed attended the victim's funeral, lurking among
the mourners.

Speaker 2 (49:34):
Okay, I that is just so bothersome to me that
I don't know. That is just one of the things
up there that is just so unbelievably disturbing to me
that they would go to the person's funeral, Like, are
you actually kidding.

Speaker 1 (49:49):
Something so sacred? Right, You've done something so horrendous already,
and the family has this one sacred thing and you're
still not letting him have that.

Speaker 2 (49:58):
Well, it's like they wan go and see the family
mourning or something.

Speaker 1 (50:02):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (50:03):
It's just completely sick.

Speaker 1 (50:06):
It is. It's uh sends shivers at my spine. Yeah,
now face with this mountain of evidence. Terry Driver eventually
went to trial in nineteen ninety seven. In court, he
still tried to evade full responsibility for his actions. At
one point, he even concocted a bizarre story claiming that
he hadn't beaten the girls. He in fact claimed he

(50:26):
supposedly stumbled upon them after some mystery man had attacked him,
and then, in a panic, he then raped Tanya's unconscious
body and dumped in a river.

Speaker 2 (50:36):
That is almost like comical. That's so such a terrible lie.

Speaker 1 (50:41):
It doesn't make any sense that, Like.

Speaker 2 (50:43):
Don't even be trying anymore.

Speaker 1 (50:44):
Terry Well, he tried that. And then he also attempted
to blame his actions on mental disorders, saying he had
conditions like Tourette syndrome and OCD which somehow culminates to
make you do something like that, which is just like
spitting on anyone with Tourette syndrome or OCD.

Speaker 2 (51:02):
Yeah, I don't think that would make you do.

Speaker 1 (51:03):
That, but no, definitely not. It was ridiculous to say
the least, and it's no surprise to say nobody in
the court when was buying it. I'm pretty sure his
defense was probably even scoffing at it. But I digress.
The forensic proof was overwhelming, and Terry's own calls to
the police while they are basically serving as recorded confessions.
So in October of nineteen ninety seven, Terry Driver was

(51:26):
convicted a first degree murder for killing Tanya Smith and
attempted murder for the attack on Misty Cockrell. The judge
sentenced him to life in prison with no chance of parole,
which is a mandatory sentence for first degree murder in Canada.

Speaker 2 (51:43):
Good good, good.

Speaker 1 (51:44):
Furthermore, Terry Driver was declared as a dangerous offender, a
designation reserved for the worst criminals, which meant he could
be kept incarcerated indefinitely for the safety of the public
should something happen with you know, his uh, what's the
word I'm looking for sentencing? There we go.

Speaker 2 (52:04):
Yeah, Okay, that's good, because, yeah, this guy is a
freaking menace to society.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
Yeah, so a Terry Driver locked away. The reign of
terror that had gripped Abbotsford finally came to an end.
The Abbotsford killer would spend the rest of his life
behind bars, never having another chance to harm an innocent person.
In fact, Terry Driver remained imprisoned until he died in
twenty twenty one of natural causes, still serving his life sentence,

(52:31):
and he never showed signs of genuine remorse for his actions.

Speaker 2 (52:35):
Seriously, Yeah, he wouldn't have been that old when he died.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
No, I don't think so.

Speaker 2 (52:39):
But I also feel like as soon as he, you know,
went into jail and stuff like, it probably gave mist
you a little bit of her life back too.

Speaker 1 (52:47):
Yeah, definitely, like for her seeing her attacker brought to
justice was it was honestly a very crucial step in
her healing. Her recovery though was still going to be
a long.

Speaker 2 (52:55):
Journey absolutely, yeah, forever, Oh definitely so.

Speaker 1 (52:59):
In the years after the try trial, Misty worked to
rebuild her life. She had survived a real life horror
movie and emerged as a living witness against a killer.
Refusing to be defined solely as a victim, Misty actually
grew into an aspiring advocate. She has spoken openly about
her experience both the trauma and the resilience, and became

(53:19):
a tireless voice for victims' rights. Looking back in the ordeal,
Misty has expressed that while she never forgave Terry for
what he did, she has freed herself from living in
a shadow, saying quote, I won't let him run my
life now. Instead, she chose to focus on the future,
honoring Tanya's memory by living life to its fullest. Misty's

(53:43):
unwavering courage, from fighting back during that attack to assisting
the investigation despite her injuries, to rebuilding her life afterwards,
it turned her into what many call the ultimate survivor
and what we hear on the show call the badass
of the day. The Abbotsford community, shaken but resilient, also

(54:05):
gradually healed. Tanya Smith's memory lives on in the hearts
of those who knew her, and every year people still
reflect on how this vicious predator was able to strike
in their midst and how he ultimately was unmasked and stopped.
The case of the Abbotsford Killer remains one of Canada's
most infamous criminal investigation and reminds us that sometimes true

(54:28):
evil can hide behind a friendly facade, but it also
tells the story of a life lost, end of a
life lived in defiance preservation by a brave young woman
who refused to let a murderer extinguish her spirit and
her friend's memory. And that's a story of the Abbotsford killer.

Speaker 2 (54:48):
Hmm. Yeah, that is a new story for me too.

Speaker 1 (54:52):
That's a wild ride with someone who fucking cocky as hell,
and I'm glad it caught up with them.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
Oh my gosh. Yeah, if this would have ended with
him not getting caught, I would have been completely liked.

Speaker 3 (55:03):
Ye.

Speaker 1 (55:04):
So to answer his question, do you think I would
be dumb enough to leave my fingerprints behind on a payphone? Yeah,
we think you're dumb enough to leave your fingerprints behind.
Why you were the most obvious place of all tape,
you know.

Speaker 2 (55:19):
I also we have to be like pretty thankful for
his mom too, because the fact that I don't know
that would I feel like a lot of parents maybe
wouldn't even have called in, right, even if they did
suspect that it was their own kid.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
Well, that's when you were saying, like, oh, it's kind
of funny that people like call in for all these
random things. It's like sometimes those random things are actually something.
That's kind of what I was like trying to say,
without giving anything away, is it could be the thing that,
you know, what brings the case to an end. In
this case, it actually was.

Speaker 2 (55:51):
Yeah. Well no, I'm thankful she did because, like I
said earlier, that would not have been a good or
an easy phone call to make.

Speaker 1 (55:58):
Definitely not. But I'm glad she made that call. It
was the right thing to do.

Speaker 2 (56:01):
And I also feel very sorry that this man had
children that had to be brought up in this world
knowing that their father is a complete disgusting monster. There's
a lot I have to bite my tongue sometimes because
like I could just go off and call this guy

(56:21):
so much stuff, but then I'm like, Okay, this is
like kind of live.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
So yeah, I mean all right, I got you.

Speaker 2 (56:29):
I sometimes if we have to stop, I'll like really
let some things go. But yeah, for here, I'll just like, yeah,
he is just scum of the earth. Let's just say that.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
Oh definitely. But yeah, thank you guys for being here.
Sorry again that we didn't get an episode out last week,
but we are here regardless. I'm starting to feel it
in my throat a little bit. I don't know if
you can hear it in my voice.

Speaker 2 (56:51):
Yeah, well there's a lot of talking that, more so
than you have been doing the past.

Speaker 1 (56:55):
Yeah. I just need to drink a little bit of water,
get some you know, some moisturize in my throat.

Speaker 2 (57:01):
Yeah, but thank you for being here and being patient
for this episode. So yeah, it was worth the way,
that's for sure.

Speaker 1 (57:08):
Definitely, so thank you. You guys are amazing. Don't forget
the description where you get all the links and good stuff,
the socials, you know, it's all there. Thank you, You're
amazing and until next

Speaker 2 (57:17):
Time, stay wicked.

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The Abbotsford Killer - Terry Driver

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Abbotsford Killer - Terry Driver