February 12, 2025 • 30 mins
This episode dives into the chilling world of serial killers, featuring trivia, outrageous stories, and humorous takes on the darkest elements of human behavior. From Joel Rifkin's capture due to missing license plates to the cleaning mishap that exposed Dennis Nilsen, we explore the absurdities within the grim realities of true crime.
• Exploration of Joel Rifkin's case and his methods
• Discussion on the absurdities: crime, capture, and consequences
• Reflections on the ethics surrounding the rehabilitation of sex workers
• Insight into various infamous killers and their capture stories
• How familial ties in genealogy led to identifying the Golden State Killer
• John Wayne Gacy’s chilling dual life as a clown and a killer
• Closing thoughts on the intersection of humor and horror in true crime
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Wicked Wanderings is hosted by Hannah & Courtney and it's produced by Rob Fitzpatrick. Music by Sascha Ende.
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Courtney (00:00):
I'm clicking it back on to tell you, rob, that your
job is hard and we appreciateyou, because I decided we were
going to cut an episode off andstart a new one, and then Cousin
Mark decided to be a comedian.
Hannah (00:09):
Well, I started it, though I can't you can't blame
Cousin Mark Hannah wants credit.
Courtney (00:12):
But Cousin Mark was the one who said the funny thing
that made us all chipper.
I mean yeah, because it washandmade, that was probably the
(00:55):
Okay, ready to wander into thedarkness with us?
This is Wicked Wanderings.
We are going to be doinganother one of our true crime
trivia episodes with guestcousin Mark.
So it's from the book TotallyTerrifying True Crime Trivia by
Brian Boone, just in case anyonewas looking for the reference
on that.
Cousin Marc (01:15):
You got to get your theme music as a ringtone so I
can put that on my phone whenyou guys text me.
Hannah (01:20):
That's perfect.
Cousin Marc (01:21):
Okay, there you go.
Hannah (01:22):
A lack of license plates .
On his car, nailed serialkiller Joel Rifkin.
Do you know anything about JoelRifkin?
I do he was in New York.
When are we going to findsomething he doesn't know?
I know, right, many serialkillers will fulfill their
pathological need to kill andavoid capture by targeting
prostitutes, right, drug addictsand others who fall through the
cracks of society and can gomissing without sounding as many
(01:45):
alarms.
Joel rifkin did just that,murdering as many as 17 drug
addicted sex workers in new yorkcity and long island between
1989 and 1993.
He was captured not because ofevidence of his violent crimes,
but because he neglected to putlicense plates on his car.
Stopped by police for drivingwithout plates, rifkin panicked
and engaged authorities in ahigh-speed pursuit that ended
(02:06):
when he crashed into a poleoutside a courthouse, where he
later stand trial and receive a203-year prison sentence.
Courtney (02:11):
Wow, how about the irony on that.
Cousin Marc (02:14):
They got him because he had a body in the
back of his truck.
Courtney (02:18):
Stop.
I'm sorry, but like okayactually.
I can, so I can see both sides.
Hannah (02:24):
on this one I'll play devil's advocate here for a
second, both sides of whatHaving a dead body in the trunk.
Courtney (02:28):
Wait for it.
I'm not saying that.
I'm just saying I canunderstand where your brain
would be like oh shit, I have adead body in the trunk.
I'm going to take my licenseplate off.
I can see where you're like.
They can't draw attention tomyself with this dead body in
the trunk by not having alicense plate.
Yes, I would have preferred ifit were my situation, not that
(02:48):
it would be.
I would have kept the licenseplate on the car and taken my
chances and just not driven likea psychopath well, see, that's
the.
Cousin Marc (02:53):
That's the thing with dahmer.
Dahmer's first kill.
He had the kid in the trashbags in the back of the car and
he took off.
He took off at like two in themorning.
The police pulled him over,asked him what he's doing.
He goes well, my parents arefighting.
I'm taking the trash to thedump just to get out of the
(03:14):
house.
They go well, the dump's closed.
You're gonna have to go home.
He goes okay, and he turnedaround and left did you watch
the movie the of dommer?
Hannah (03:21):
um, it's on netflix.
Yeah, yeah, I did.
How was it?
I haven't seen it, me neither.
It was good.
Yeah, it was good.
Yeah.
Did you watch Woman of the Year?
Cousin Marc (03:30):
Woman of the Hour?
No, not that.
Courtney (03:32):
I can't Not yet.
I know that.
So I was telling Hannah and Robthat I tried to watchwise.
I just had a really hard timewith the way that it was set up
and I don't know why, because Iusually eat that stuff right up.
Cousin Marc (03:46):
She said because I listened to the interview that
she did with Ashley Flowers.
She said that if you could getthrough the first five minutes
of the movie, you're home free.
Courtney (03:56):
I disagree with that, because I'm like halfway through
and I'm like, oh really, Ithink it's for me the the
actress from glee is in thereand it's just super distracting.
Did the cup song.
Cousin Marc (04:09):
Yes, yeah, I just she was so bubbly and now she's.
But see, the only thing I havean issue with with the movie,
from listening to her talk aboutit, was the woman never went on
the date with rodney alcala.
Oh really, once he, once hecame out from behind the curtain
and she started talking to him.
Hannah (04:24):
She's like there's something off, yeah Right.
Cousin Marc (04:27):
And she didn't go on the date with him.
Courtney (04:29):
So they fabricated that part because it made better
cinematography yeah.
Cousin Marc (04:33):
Sometimes real life doesn't fit the book.
Courtney (04:37):
Which is disappointing , because there should be no
book or movie without whathappened in real life, if it's
based off of it Right yeah.
Well, that's directors for you,and she directed it.
Cousin Marc (04:47):
Really the girl that starred in it?
Really yeah, because theyfilmed it in 27 days.
Courtney (04:54):
Oh well, that is.
You know what, though I mightbe able to finish it now that
that's kept in mind, because Iwas like, who put this out?
What?
Hannah (05:00):
is this All right, hannah go.
Courtney (05:06):
Do watch this.
All right, here we go, are you?
Do you want me to keep reading?
I yeah, no, it's fine, I'llkeep clearing my throat and rob
will set me on fire, so it'sfine.
Hannah (05:09):
So it's more about joel rifkin.
Uh, joel rifkin wanted toreform prostitutes, which why
are?
Courtney (05:14):
why is that the trend of today?
Reforming prostitutes orkilling them?
I guess?
Hannah (05:19):
shortly after he was apprehended for murdering
somewhere between 9 and 17 women.
That's a big gap, somewherebetween nine and 17 women.
Courtney (05:24):
That's a big gap, somewhere between nine and 17.
Anywhere in the middle.
Cousin Marc (05:27):
Well Bridgeway was 40.
He admitted to 49.
They had him pegged at 70 to100.
Courtney (05:33):
It's just such a big gap it is, it's not like you
know, around 50.
It's like or 100 or 200.
Hannah (05:39):
So between nine and 17 women in New York.
From 1989 to 1993, Joel Rifkinwas sentenced to 203 years of
prison.
Six years in, in 1999, hesubmitted to prison officials a
10-page proposal to open arehabilitative shelter for
prostitutes.
Oh my god, oh so in jail.
Courtney (05:54):
He was like you know what would be great.
We shouldn't reform me, weshould reform prostitutes.
That's good.
Hannah (05:58):
Wow, I'm just showing I care now A group that he had
once targeted as victims.
His facility would offer drugtreatment, job training and
counseling.
No desensitization, training,and here I'm quoting, but it's
his quote and here I am quotingI love you guys.
Just play along with this.
It's a way of paying back adebt, I guess rifkin said at the
time he also suggested a scaredstraight program, quote-unquote
(06:22):
, where prostitutes would seedead sex workers at a morgue.
The plan was not adopted, washe?
Courtney (06:28):
I guess?
Wait, wait, wait.
Let me guess he was going tosay I'll take one for the team.
I'll take the big L on this one, I'll kill those prostitutes
for this morgue Wow, he was justdoing job security.
That's what that was.
He was like, I'm just going tokeep finding a way that I can
kill people.
Hannah (06:43):
Let's talk about sex workers for a second, because,
courtney, we have had thisconversation before.
Yes, many times.
Like if you want to sell yourbody as a way to work, who gives
a fucking?
Courtney (06:53):
shit.
I don't really understand whyit's illegal.
Hannah (06:55):
Yeah, If that's hey girl , if that's what's bringing you
money, Well, think about it.
Courtney (06:59):
And I'll be the guy to say it.
Like people can sell picturesof their feet or their naked
body.
Hannah (07:04):
What's really the difference?
Courtney (07:05):
between sending a picture of your naked body or
letting someone have sex.
I don't really understand.
To the government like tax them, I guess.
Like is that what this is about?
Like they don't tax.
That was one of the things.
Cousin Marc (07:14):
That was one of the things with Ridgeway's
prostitutes.
Ann Rule had it in her book.
The mother would say you knowyou should come and get a, you
know hiring at the pharmacy oryou know whatever, and you can
go.
Yeah, and go to work for eighthours a day and make eighty
(07:35):
dollars.
I can go with a john and makeone hundred and one sitting.
Right, right, right Right.
Courtney (07:38):
Well, when you, when you talk about it like that
right and you take what the workis out of it, it just makes
sense.
It's just that social stigma,stigma.
It's another one of thosethings where the social stigma
and I mean there is a safetyissue.
I'm not gonna, I'm not gonnalie and say that there isn't a
huge.
There's a body safety issue andthen there's also like a your,
your personal self issue too.
But I don't know, I don't seethe difference between doing
that kind of it's kind of thesame as people who I'm gonna
(08:01):
compare rob to a prostitute,he's not gonna like it he's
selling his body to go work atsomebody's house.
How is?
Hannah (08:07):
that not the same thing.
Courtney (08:08):
He's selling a service that he's selling a service
that his body has.
He's selling those calves,those calves those calves?
Hannah (08:17):
is that a family trait?
By the way?
Is it the calves?
Courtney (08:20):
oh no, I have skinny legs oh, okay, we always tell
rob that it's his calves, that'she loves his calves we make him
blush.
We talk about his calves.
So if you hear us saying thaton, episodes.
Cousin Marc (08:29):
We should just model him off.
Courtney (08:31):
Don't say that to him, because he will, he will, and
then he'll start sending youfeet pics because our group chat
.
I get feet pics.
I get feet pics that I did notask for At least you didn't get
anything else.
Cousin Marc (08:42):
It's better than the other picks you could get.
Courtney (08:44):
That's true.
Hannah (08:48):
I told him he should get a feet finder and make money
off of it.
That's it.
He could have you checking formoles.
Hey, what do you think of thismole Like?
Courtney (08:55):
oh my God, Did not hate to see all that you might
get the feet picks, that thepeople can swoop down out of the
sky and grab their meal fromthe river.
Hannah (09:06):
Oh man, Read the next one.
No, I'm coughing.
Okay, his own plumbingcomplaints got the Muswell Hill
murderer captured.
Oh my gosh, he clogged drains.
Why is it always the fuckingdrains?
Oh my gosh.
Oh this one, yeah, of courseyou know, robert Mullen Is it.
Well, let's see, between 1978and 1983, serial murderer Dennis
(09:30):
Nilsen.
Oh my God, there was more thanone of them.
Cousin Marc (09:32):
Dennis Nilsen.
Yeah, okay, sorry.
Hannah (09:34):
Killed 12 men in a London neighborhood.
Ooh, london, yeah.
Cousin Marc (09:38):
And then he was trying to just like Dahmer, he
was trying to disintegrate themwith acid.
Just like Dominar, he wastrying to disintegrate them with
acid.
It's like he's trying to readahead and then flush them down
the drain.
Courtney (09:47):
And why do people keep doing that when people keep
getting caught that way?
That's what I don't understand.
Cousin Marc (09:51):
Well, wait, watch how he gets caught.
Hannah (09:53):
Oh, no, he became known as the Muswell Hill murderer.
He strangled his victims andthen keep their bodies in his
apartment, eventually dissectingthem and burning most of their
remains.
Them and burning most of theirremains.
Authorities apprehended himafter Nilsen and others in his
building called a plumbercomplaining of clogged drains.
The plumbers traced theblockages to the top floor
apartment where Nilsen lived andfound that the blockages
consisted of flesh and humanbone pieces.
(10:13):
Nilsen confessed to police, whodiscovered bags of human
remains in his home, and he wasarrested and sentenced to life
in prison.
Wow, he should have rented ahotel room.
Courtney (10:22):
Wow, oh, you should have rented a hotel room.
Wow, oh, like Dahmer yeah.
Cousin Marc (10:25):
You should have rented a hotel room.
Courtney (10:27):
Under a fake ID.
Cousin Marc (10:29):
So here's the thing Too close to home.
When they called the plumber,the plumber went out to the
street, the plumber not aplumber A plumber Plumber A
plumber.
Hannah (10:40):
A plumber.
No, we love the accent.
I'm just teasing you, I knowyou do See, you got him coughing
now.
Cousin Marc (10:48):
It's contagious.
How'd you do that from 300miles away?
Courtney (10:52):
In the virtual, she's a witch.
The tea, she's a witch Fuckingputt nums, fucking putt nums,
what?
Cousin Marc (10:58):
happened was the plumber went into the streets in
a manhole and that was whereshe started to see the skin, and
then, oh good.
Courtney (11:07):
Imagine being that guy and being like Nope straight up
Monday.
Cousin Marc (11:12):
So listen.
So Nielsen found out that theywere down there, so it like
highly intoxicated two o'clockin the morning he climbed down
in there to clean it all out.
So they didn't investigate more.
Wow, yeah.
Courtney (11:27):
You would have to be intoxicated.
Cousin Marc (11:28):
Somebody clean this .
Something's going on.
Courtney (11:31):
You would have had to have been completely inebriated
to do that.
That's repulsive, oh God.
Cousin Marc (11:38):
Could you imagine cleaning that and someone
flushes the toilet while you'regoing?
Courtney (11:42):
I think shit would be the last thing on your mind of
being covered in when you'redown there in literally people's
bodies.
Yeah, it would be the icing ontop of the cake Shit, or the
unchewed corn people's bodies.
So yeah, we'll be the icing ontop of the cake shit why they
don't chew with corn oh,sprinkles.
Hannah (11:57):
That's another thing like why does corn come out
whole?
Cousin Marc (12:00):
I don't know you said you, you guys said, you
could handle it you can't, oh,I'm handling it?
Hannah (12:05):
you can't digest corn.
Courtney (12:06):
I don't know why do we eat it?
Hannah (12:08):
what nutrients is, if it just comes out?
Courtney (12:10):
nothing we're.
We're stupid, people are stupid.
I don't know why do so.
Why do we eat it?
What nutrients is it if it justcomes out whole?
Probably nothing.
We're stupid.
People are stupid.
I don't know why do we drinkalcohol?
It gives us nothing.
Next, next.
Cousin Marc (12:18):
Next.
Hannah (12:19):
After an NFL career didn't work out, a football
player became a serial killer.
Cousin Marc (12:23):
Yeah, the I-5 killer.
Courtney (12:24):
That's a quick jump.
It's a very big jump.
It's like you know whatFootball didn't work out.
Fuck this shit, I'm going tokill people.
Cousin Marc (12:32):
Yeah.
I don't remember his name, butI remember.
Hannah (12:34):
Randall Woodfield I recognize that name Was both a
football star and a criminal.
As a teenager, the widereceiver for Newport High School
in Oregon in the late 1960salso got arrested on a charge of
indecent exposure.
Okay, he went on to play forPortland State University and
was drafted by the Green BayPackers, but he was cut during
training camp after beingrepeatedly arrested for indecent
(12:54):
exposure.
Courtney (12:55):
Okay, obviously like he's Green Bay Pack and not
pants.
Cousin Marc (12:59):
He's holding the cheese.
Hannah (13:01):
Wait, what was that episode that we had where they
talked about having theextension?
Do you remember that?
The balls extension that was inone of these books?
Right, the balls extension?
Yes, remember, remember, theywould purposely put an extension
on their balls, so when theysat, I think hannah's making up
some kind of medieval ballstorture you don't remember
because it would talk about theepisode.
(13:22):
I think rob was talking to herabout it yeah, remember they
would wear the tunics, but thenthey would have like yes, yes,
it was a medieval thing.
Courtney (13:28):
Yeah, that was from the other book?
Hannah (13:30):
Yeah, I don't know, I just brought that up in my brain
.
Don't ask why.
Cousin Marc (13:33):
Hannah's got balls on the mind, balls on the mind,
that's it.
Hannah (13:37):
Okay, here we are.
In 1975, he returned to Oregonwhere he was linked to multiple
robberies and knife point sexualassaults.
From 1980 to 1981, he killed asmany as 44 people in the
Pacific Northwest.
Courtney (13:48):
Holy hell, that was one year.
He was really mad about thefootball thing not working out.
Cousin Marc (13:52):
Yeah, and again you're on the West Coast
California, oregon, washingtonState.
Hannah (13:58):
There's just more people to kill.
Cousin Marc (14:00):
That's it.
Hannah (14:01):
More opportunity, more places to hide them.
There's a lot of great forests.
That's where Bigfoot hangs out.
Oh God, god, love me, someBigfoot Sasquatch and Ted Bundy
all the time.
Courtney (14:11):
Sorry, okay, chewy, back to the book.
Hannah (14:15):
Are you sure you're okay with me?
Keep reading.
I feel bad.
I promise you I'm going to belike if I try to read Genealogy
websites brought down the GoldenState Killer, which I think
this is what we did yeah.
We talked about that.
Between 1974 and 1986, a manknown alternatively as the
Visalia Ransacker, the East AreaRapist, the original Night
Stalker and the Golden StateKiller, terrorized different
(14:37):
areas of Northern CaliforniaOver three different crime
sprees.
He committed 120 burglaries, 51sexual assaults and at least 13
murders.
Joseph D'Angelo was identifiedand arrested in 2018, at which
point he delivered a fullconfession.
He was caught by authoritiesusing DNA evidence.
His genetic material taken fromcrime scenes matched with that
of members of the D'Angelofamily on genealogy research
(14:59):
websites and investigatorsnarrowed it down to him.
Courtney (15:01):
I'm sorry but you're killing people and you didn't
think to ask your family atChristmas.
Hey, any of you guys doing23andMe?
Hannah (15:07):
Anyone doing ancestrycom ?
Cousin Marc (15:09):
Well see, when he was doing the break-ins and the
rapes and everything, he wouldhave one person tie the other
one up, yeah, and then he'd takeplates and put them on top of
the male victim.
Courtney (15:21):
So they would know if they moved.
Cousin Marc (15:23):
If he moved, the plates would fall and he'd know
they'd move.
Courtney (15:27):
Yeah, he was really well thought out.
He was a very interesting.
He was an ex-pop, of course hewas.
Cousin Marc (15:33):
Which is why he was able to be eluded for so long,
because he was being told whatwas going on, dear God, and
where they were, what,everything, all the
investigations were, and he knewwhat they were going to look
for too.
Courtney (15:46):
I mean that training you can't get out of your head.
You know what they're going tolook for you.
You can't get out of your head.
You know what they're gonnalook for.
Hannah (15:56):
You know where they're gonna go first you know how much
time you have before theyrespond.
Yeah, damn, hiding in plainsight.
Keep going.
Yeah, well, let's do one more.
Let's see.
Okay, the golden state killerwaited for his victims in their
bedrooms.
Yes, I did know that the goldenstate killer, who killed at
least 13 people from 1974 to1986, wasn't identified until
the 2010s as j D'Angelo, a homeinvader who assaulted women and
sometimes killed them.
He wouldn't attack people whilethey slept, but preferred to
(16:16):
wait for them to wake up.
He'd break into their home,stay at the entrance to their
bedroom and tap his knifeagainst the wall until they woke
up.
I would rather just be attackedin my sleep.
Courtney (16:25):
Yeah, that's just weird.
And that's where you have tohave some kind of weird power
trip situation, because you justbroke in and you're just
waiting for them, like imagineyou're not in a rush, you're
just hanging out, that's it.
What if they didn't wake uptill morning?
Would he leave?
I have so many questions?
Yeah, because he was escapingin and out of people's windows
and stuff.
Cousin Marc (16:44):
Yeah, I can't remember if it was him or if it
was BTK had one of them had gonein and sat there for like three
hours and four, four hours, andthen the person never showed up
, so we left talk about apatient man sitting in a closet,
I want to say that was the btkit might have.
Courtney (17:00):
I think it was because we and we really he was an
idiot we didn't really know muchabout him because we haven't
done an episode on him and whenwe started reading one of these
books or well, this book, but itwas one of the episodes we did
in the beginning there was likethree or four that were all
about him and we were like weshould do an episode on this guy
because he's definitely got alot going on.
Hannah (17:18):
He was a weirdo yeah, so there's one more on this page,
so do you guys care if I just dothat one?
Okay, serial killer johnwangasey also worked as a party
clown, which I think oh god, Iknew this.
Courtney (17:29):
I hate clowns.
Clowns are the only cannibalism.
And clowns, come on the Cs.
Well, I have to say.
Hannah (17:35):
I have to say, though, I loved the newest uh movie, it
and it too.
I really enjoyed them.
I hated the book.
I gave that a one star.
It was the worst stephen kingbook I've ever read, but I liked
the movies stephen king.
If you're listening, we loveyou no, we love you, stephen
king, we love you huge fans justI didn't like the book.
Courtney (17:56):
I don't know I just don't like clowns casey said,
and I quote and here I amquoting.
Cousin Marc (18:03):
The best they can get me on is having an illegal
mortuary.
Courtney (18:08):
I don't even know what to say to that.
I have a comment for everythingand you just caught me
mid-drink and I'm like I don'thave it.
Cousin Marc (18:14):
I mean he has a point.
Most of the bodies were buriedin the crawlspace of his house.
Courtney (18:19):
I don't understand this.
Why do people kill people?
I'm going to do Keep them in myhouse.
I hate the idea of like a mousedying in the walls or something
and all that decay, and thesepeople are straight up like I'm
going to murder one person amonth and I'm going to keep them
in my house.
You think about like they wanttrophies, right, they take a
piece of hair or a piece ofjewelry or a sweatshirt or
(18:39):
something.
Hannah (18:40):
I don't know, Take the gloved hand.
Oh God.
Courtney (18:45):
My wrists hurt because they're just picturing the
sympathy, pain of havingsomebody just You're dead.
Cousin Marc (18:51):
I know You're dead.
You're not feeling it.
Courtney (18:53):
I'm feeling it right now, though that's unfortunately
the truth.
She's in her feels.
I'm in my feels.
Hannah (18:58):
On July 30th 1999, the Kansas City Star made note of
how it was National Clown Weekwith a short article about the
heavily made-up children'sentertainers.
A file photo ran with the pieceand it must have been hastily
chosen or carelessly approved,because it was a photo of a
long-ago convicted andsince-executed Chicago-area
serial killer, john Wayne Gacy.
Yeah, that's really bad.
He worked as a birthday partyentertainer named Pogo the Clown
(19:19):
, between committing more than30 murders.
That's pretty bad.
Yeah, you can't just look upclown and just be like, oh, this
one looks good, and then it'dbe the mark like it's just not,
but see he job opening.
Cousin Marc (19:35):
If you look at all the clowns they all had you know
circle makeup, you knoweverything was smooth lined,
yeah all his came to point indifferent spots.
Courtney (19:45):
So it was a little more freaky.
Pronounced.
Yeah, I don't like clowns.
Hannah (19:51):
Clowns are a no-go for me, but I liked it I did.
I like Bill Skarsgård too,which is probably why I like the
movie so much.
Courtney (20:00):
Another boyfriend, a third boyfriend.
Hannah (20:02):
That's a clown.
No, what next?
I like the movie so much.
Another boyfriend, a thirdboyfriend.
Courtney (20:04):
That's a clown.
No, what next Chucky?
Ew, no, that one creeps me out.
I've never seen it though.
No me, neither Dolls.
I used to have porcelain dollsthat my grandmother gave me as a
kid, and so I had like wallsand walls and walls of porcelain
dolls.
Cousin Marc (20:18):
You did, yeah, so yeah, so dolls are also.
Wow for me what happened?
What you do is you take thedolls and you take the.
You take the eyeballs out, thenput little candles inside them.
Courtney (20:31):
Oh god, that's a terrible love.
My friend barbara, I found Iwas in an abandoned house and I
found these little like nakedbaby, like figurines.
They were like maybe not evenlike half an inch tall.
So I sent them to her becauseshe loves like filling vases
with baby heads and stuff insideher decor and she's like
courtney.
I'm sending them back.
I made something for you andshe made me earrings out of
these naked little babies.
(20:52):
I have.
Hannah (20:55):
I've never heard of this friend before yes, barbara,
she's like, barbara must be.
Courtney (20:59):
barbara must be in her 50s or 60s.
Um, she loves antiquing, sheloves creepy shit.
I'll show you her profile.
She's great, she's great.
Hannah (21:06):
You can't wear those at work Naked.
Courtney (21:08):
Baby little, I'll send a picture of you.
I've never worn them becauseI'm not into the creepy baby
doll thing, but I was like, ohthank you, barbara.
Hannah (21:16):
She's like I made them just for you.
Courtney (21:24):
Shit.
What would you wear those?
I have no idea.
You can't wear them to work.
Cousin Marc (21:26):
I've never worn them Halloween party, that's
true.
Or creepy naked baby dollfestival Festival.
Courtney (21:29):
I could re-gift them to you if you're into that.
No, oh there you go.
Cousin Marc (21:33):
You can hang them up right there in the bookshelf.
Courtney (21:35):
Oh no, I'll get Cousin Mark's address and I'll send
them to him.
Hannah (21:39):
Don't put a return address.
He Don't put a return addressin this open.
He'll open it in like nakedbaby earrings and he'll just be
like.
Courtney (21:43):
Courtney's been here.
Yeah, aren't you wearing them?
Hannah (21:50):
Look, they found a new home.
I don't know if his wife willlike that very much.
Maybe she could wear them Likehey, honey, you want to go make
your baby.
Courtney (21:57):
Does she have her ears pierced?
You could each wear one.
Cousin Marc (22:00):
Oh no, I made her sit through the Albert Fish
documentary and after that wasdone she says I'm all set with
the child killers.
It's not for everybody.
Courtney (22:11):
No, it's not it's not for everybody.
All right, it's not Findanother one.
Another one, let's see Casey,again, I feel like they do them
in clusters.
Yeah, should I skip over him?
No, finish him.
All right, finish him.
I don't know where my accentjust came from.
Finish him, finish him.
I'm not saying Mortal Kombat,finish him, mortal.
Cousin Marc (22:30):
Kombat.
Hannah (22:32):
Gacy was a prominent and productive man of stature Okay,
interesting, john Wayne Gacy iscommonly associated with his
Pogo the Clown character, but henever killed or lured victims
while in his clown makeup andcostume that would just be
sinful.
He performed as a birthdayparty entertainer on weekends
when he wasn't managing KentuckyFried Chicken or serving on
several Chicagoland business andmen's organizations.
I'm sorry, didn't they say he?
Courtney (22:52):
was prominent.
What do you mean?
He's a clown.
Yeah, he actually met.
Cousin Marc (22:56):
Rosaline Carter.
He's a clown.
Jimmy Carter's wife.
Courtney (22:59):
Really, she's alive still right.
Hannah (23:01):
Or she was no they died, she died, she survived the
encounter with him.
That's what I'm getting at hevoted in this election and then
died.
Yeah, because the flags arestill at mass for another five
or so days, right?
Cousin Marc (23:12):
Nah maybe I don't know Something like that.
Hannah (23:15):
It's a full month that they do it for I think.
Courtney (23:20):
Yeah, so I think it was like that.
Hannah (23:22):
Am I right?
Courtney (23:23):
Another her Kentucky accent just came out.
Cousin Marc (23:25):
Something like that .
I don't know where it came from.
She was just talking aboutKentucky Fried Chicken.
Hannah (23:29):
Back to Polo.
That's why Some fried chickens.
Cousin Marc (23:34):
That was Gacy's father-in-law.
He owned Kentucky FriedChickens and he gave them a
managerial job.
Hannah (23:40):
Well, he must know the secret recipe.
A manaterial job?
Well, he must know the secretrecipe.
I want to know what the secretrecipe is the secret sauce it's
blood.
Cousin Marc (23:52):
It's not campfire sauce, it's blood, it's better
than saying it was semen.
Courtney (23:55):
I mean, I don't know.
Cousin Marc (23:56):
It's not Chick-fil-A sauce, that's for
sure.
Ooh, Chick-fil-A sauce.
Courtney (24:00):
Well, we can't get that because it's Sunday and
they're Chick-fil-A sauce, maybethat's what.
Well, we can't get that becauseit's Sunday and they're
Chick-fil-A and they're not nicepeople.
Hannah (24:04):
No, they have this thing with, like going to church or
something.
Courtney (24:05):
They also have this thing about not liking gay
people, and they're closed onSunday, so it doesn't matter you
want me to keep going.
Yeah, I don't know when to stop.
Why don't we do one more?
Hannah (24:18):
We're at 25, the Night Stalker.
Courtney (24:20):
Why the Night?
That's such a like.
I feel like if I was going tobe a race car driver, my name
would be like the Night Stalker.
Why race car driving?
Well, because I wouldn't be akiller.
That would be weird.
Well, no, I don't want to be akiller, but like, why wouldn't I
be a race car driver?
Why would you Drive?
Cousin Marc (24:33):
fast.
Hannah (24:48):
But all you do is auto, that's true.
See, I wouldn't do likecircular racing, though.
I'd be like a rally driver,like I'd be like going through
the woods.
There you go, anyway.
It's back to our thing.
Okay, a serial killer?
What stalker?
Okay, a serial killer, known asa night stalker, haunted
nighttime los angeles from 1984to 1985, staging home invasions,
sexually assaulting inhabitants, murdering them and leaving
satanic symbols behind.
He killed 13 people and evadedcapture even after the LAPD
figured out his identity andplastered the mugshot of Richard
Ramirez all over the city.
While that unfolded, ramirezwas back home in Arizona and he
(25:12):
didn't know police were closingin.
He came into LA via a Greyhoundbus, walked into the
convenience store and wasspotted by an older woman of
Latino descent, teen of descent.
Why does that matter?
Yeah, I don't know why that'spertinent here, but okay, who
saw his picture in a newspaperjust minutes earlier and shouted
el maton, the killer.
Maybe that's why?
that's why it was necessary okayramirez ran away, but after
(25:32):
multiple people tried to stophim, he was taken down by an
angry mob.
Courtney (25:35):
Citizens arrest pretty much, yeah, right in the middle
of the road now has anybodyever noticed that these stories
it's always, it's never liketook public transportation, it's
always a greyhound every singletime it's a greyhound bus and
like I just find that so funny.
No matter where we're talkingabout within the states, it's
always a greyhound bus.
(25:56):
I'm gonna start taking data,I'm gonna get a whiteboard for
over in my area and I'm gonnastart doing a greyhound check.
Let let's do it.
There's already one on there.
Let's do it.
I'm going to have whiteboardsall over Hannah's wall in here.
Hannah (26:10):
Well, that's soon going to be full with another bookcase
.
That's what those things are,is it this Yep On that side?
Courtney (26:16):
I need to buy a house so Rob can build me a bookcase.
Cousin Marc (26:19):
There, you go.
Courtney (26:20):
I also need to have money to buy a house.
Hannah (26:22):
You do you, can you do?
Courtney (26:25):
Yeah, I need to have time to buy a house.
Hannah (26:27):
Yes, yes, that's more of what I was going to try to get.
Cousin Marc (26:28):
We're too busy incorporating companies.
God yeah.
Courtney (26:33):
It was one of those things where I was like this is
either going to be really braveor really stupid.
It was both.
Cousin Marc (26:39):
that says it's only stupid if it doesn't work.
Courtney (26:41):
Well, that's the reason why it's partially both
Stories for another day.
Hopefully it'll have all turneditself around by the next time
we talk.
All right, I'm going to stopour recording here.
Wait, should we say goodbye?
Hannah (26:52):
Oh, I'm not going to stop our recording here.
I feel like we should saygoodbye to me.
You spent like two and a halfhours on your list, well, I was
going to say goodbye to him.
Courtney (26:59):
I wasn't just going to press log off on him, I was
just going to hit stop recording.
But shouldn't we say goodbye tohim?
Hannah (27:03):
though, on air.
Courtney (27:04):
Okay, sure, go ahead.
Hannah Lead us on your goodbye.
Should we sing?
Hannah (27:07):
him a song Goodbye.
So long A V to say adieu.
Courtney (27:10):
I don't know the words to this one Adieu, adieu to you
.
Okay, this is getting reallyweird.
Goodbye, welcome to us.
We appreciate you coming on anddoing your thing, and you're
obviously welcome back wheneveryou have more things you want to
yap about.
Hannah (27:26):
Yes, Always All right, that's awesome.
Cousin Marc (27:28):
I would love to be back.
You guys just let me know andwe'll figure out a time and
we'll banter.
Courtney (27:35):
Sounds perfect, Banter .
It's what we do best.
Hannah (27:36):
And don't forget we have a group chat, so we need to
hear from you because I'mworking the ladies, of course.
Thanks, wonders, bye.
Thanks for listening today.
Wicked wanderings is hosted byme, hannah, and co-hosted by me
courtney and it's produced byrob fitzpatrick music by sasha m
.
If you enjoyed today's episode,don't forget to leave a rating
(27:58):
and review and be sure to followon all socials.
You can find the links down inthe show notes.
If you are looking for somereally cozy t-shirts or hoodies,
head over to the merch store.
Thank you for being a part ofthe Wicked Wanderings community.
We appreciate every one of you.
Stay curious, keep exploringand always remember to keep on
wandering.
Thank you.
I'm clicking it back on to tell you, rob, that your
job is hard and we appreciateyou, because I decided we were
going to cut an episode off andstart a new one, and then Cousin
Mark decided to be a comedian.
Hannah (00:09):
Well, I started it, though I can't you can't blame
Cousin Mark Hannah wants credit.
Courtney (00:12):
But Cousin Mark was the one who said the funny thing
that made us all chipper.
I mean yeah, because it washandmade, that was probably the
(00:55):
Okay, ready to wander into thedarkness with us?
This is Wicked Wanderings.
We are going to be doinganother one of our true crime
trivia episodes with guestcousin Mark.
So it's from the book TotallyTerrifying True Crime Trivia by
Brian Boone, just in case anyonewas looking for the reference
on that.
Cousin Marc (01:15):
You got to get your theme music as a ringtone so I
can put that on my phone whenyou guys text me.
Hannah (01:20):
That's perfect.
Cousin Marc (01:21):
Okay, there you go.
Hannah (01:22):
A lack of license plates .
On his car, nailed serialkiller Joel Rifkin.
Do you know anything about JoelRifkin?
I do he was in New York.
When are we going to findsomething he doesn't know?
I know, right, many serialkillers will fulfill their
pathological need to kill andavoid capture by targeting
prostitutes, right, drug addictsand others who fall through the
cracks of society and can gomissing without sounding as many
(01:45):
alarms.
Joel rifkin did just that,murdering as many as 17 drug
addicted sex workers in new yorkcity and long island between
1989 and 1993.
He was captured not because ofevidence of his violent crimes,
but because he neglected to putlicense plates on his car.
Stopped by police for drivingwithout plates, rifkin panicked
and engaged authorities in ahigh-speed pursuit that ended
(02:06):
when he crashed into a poleoutside a courthouse, where he
later stand trial and receive a203-year prison sentence.
Courtney (02:11):
Wow, how about the irony on that.
Cousin Marc (02:14):
They got him because he had a body in the
back of his truck.
Courtney (02:18):
Stop.
I'm sorry, but like okayactually.
I can, so I can see both sides.
Hannah (02:24):
on this one I'll play devil's advocate here for a
second, both sides of whatHaving a dead body in the trunk.
Courtney (02:28):
Wait for it.
I'm not saying that.
I'm just saying I canunderstand where your brain
would be like oh shit, I have adead body in the trunk.
I'm going to take my licenseplate off.
I can see where you're like.
They can't draw attention tomyself with this dead body in
the trunk by not having alicense plate.
Yes, I would have preferred ifit were my situation, not that
(02:48):
it would be.
I would have kept the licenseplate on the car and taken my
chances and just not driven likea psychopath well, see, that's
the.
Cousin Marc (02:53):
That's the thing with dahmer.
Dahmer's first kill.
He had the kid in the trashbags in the back of the car and
he took off.
He took off at like two in themorning.
The police pulled him over,asked him what he's doing.
He goes well, my parents arefighting.
I'm taking the trash to thedump just to get out of the
(03:14):
house.
They go well, the dump's closed.
You're gonna have to go home.
He goes okay, and he turnedaround and left did you watch
the movie the of dommer?
Hannah (03:21):
um, it's on netflix.
Yeah, yeah, I did.
How was it?
I haven't seen it, me neither.
It was good.
Yeah, it was good.
Yeah.
Did you watch Woman of the Year?
Cousin Marc (03:30):
Woman of the Hour?
No, not that.
Courtney (03:32):
I can't Not yet.
I know that.
So I was telling Hannah and Robthat I tried to watchwise.
I just had a really hard timewith the way that it was set up
and I don't know why, because Iusually eat that stuff right up.
Cousin Marc (03:46):
She said because I listened to the interview that
she did with Ashley Flowers.
She said that if you could getthrough the first five minutes
of the movie, you're home free.
Courtney (03:56):
I disagree with that, because I'm like halfway through
and I'm like, oh really, Ithink it's for me the the
actress from glee is in thereand it's just super distracting.
Did the cup song.
Cousin Marc (04:09):
Yes, yeah, I just she was so bubbly and now she's.
But see, the only thing I havean issue with with the movie,
from listening to her talk aboutit, was the woman never went on
the date with rodney alcala.
Oh really, once he, once hecame out from behind the curtain
and she started talking to him.
Hannah (04:24):
She's like there's something off, yeah Right.
Cousin Marc (04:27):
And she didn't go on the date with him.
Courtney (04:29):
So they fabricated that part because it made better
cinematography yeah.
Cousin Marc (04:33):
Sometimes real life doesn't fit the book.
Courtney (04:37):
Which is disappointing , because there should be no
book or movie without whathappened in real life, if it's
based off of it Right yeah.
Well, that's directors for you,and she directed it.
Cousin Marc (04:47):
Really the girl that starred in it?
Really yeah, because theyfilmed it in 27 days.
Courtney (04:54):
Oh well, that is.
You know what, though I mightbe able to finish it now that
that's kept in mind, because Iwas like, who put this out?
What?
Hannah (05:00):
is this All right, hannah go.
Courtney (05:06):
Do watch this.
All right, here we go, are you?
Do you want me to keep reading?
I yeah, no, it's fine, I'llkeep clearing my throat and rob
will set me on fire, so it'sfine.
Hannah (05:09):
So it's more about joel rifkin.
Uh, joel rifkin wanted toreform prostitutes, which why
are?
Courtney (05:14):
why is that the trend of today?
Reforming prostitutes orkilling them?
I guess?
Hannah (05:19):
shortly after he was apprehended for murdering
somewhere between 9 and 17 women.
That's a big gap, somewherebetween nine and 17 women.
Courtney (05:24):
That's a big gap, somewhere between nine and 17.
Anywhere in the middle.
Cousin Marc (05:27):
Well Bridgeway was 40.
He admitted to 49.
They had him pegged at 70 to100.
Courtney (05:33):
It's just such a big gap it is, it's not like you
know, around 50.
It's like or 100 or 200.
Hannah (05:39):
So between nine and 17 women in New York.
From 1989 to 1993, Joel Rifkinwas sentenced to 203 years of
prison.
Six years in, in 1999, hesubmitted to prison officials a
10-page proposal to open arehabilitative shelter for
prostitutes.
Oh my god, oh so in jail.
Courtney (05:54):
He was like you know what would be great.
We shouldn't reform me, weshould reform prostitutes.
That's good.
Hannah (05:58):
Wow, I'm just showing I care now A group that he had
once targeted as victims.
His facility would offer drugtreatment, job training and
counseling.
No desensitization, training,and here I'm quoting, but it's
his quote and here I am quotingI love you guys.
Just play along with this.
It's a way of paying back adebt, I guess rifkin said at the
time he also suggested a scaredstraight program, quote-unquote
(06:22):
, where prostitutes would seedead sex workers at a morgue.
The plan was not adopted, washe?
Courtney (06:28):
I guess?
Wait, wait, wait.
Let me guess he was going tosay I'll take one for the team.
I'll take the big L on this one, I'll kill those prostitutes
for this morgue Wow, he was justdoing job security.
That's what that was.
He was like, I'm just going tokeep finding a way that I can
kill people.
Hannah (06:43):
Let's talk about sex workers for a second, because,
courtney, we have had thisconversation before.
Yes, many times.
Like if you want to sell yourbody as a way to work, who gives
a fucking?
Courtney (06:53):
shit.
I don't really understand whyit's illegal.
Hannah (06:55):
Yeah, If that's hey girl , if that's what's bringing you
money, Well, think about it.
Courtney (06:59):
And I'll be the guy to say it.
Like people can sell picturesof their feet or their naked
body.
Hannah (07:04):
What's really the difference?
Courtney (07:05):
between sending a picture of your naked body or
letting someone have sex.
I don't really understand.
To the government like tax them, I guess.
Like is that what this is about?
Like they don't tax.
That was one of the things.
Cousin Marc (07:14):
That was one of the things with Ridgeway's
prostitutes.
Ann Rule had it in her book.
The mother would say you knowyou should come and get a, you
know hiring at the pharmacy oryou know whatever, and you can
go.
Yeah, and go to work for eighthours a day and make eighty
(07:35):
dollars.
I can go with a john and makeone hundred and one sitting.
Right, right, right Right.
Courtney (07:38):
Well, when you, when you talk about it like that
right and you take what the workis out of it, it just makes
sense.
It's just that social stigma,stigma.
It's another one of thosethings where the social stigma
and I mean there is a safetyissue.
I'm not gonna, I'm not gonnalie and say that there isn't a
huge.
There's a body safety issue andthen there's also like a your,
your personal self issue too.
But I don't know, I don't seethe difference between doing
that kind of it's kind of thesame as people who I'm gonna
(08:01):
compare rob to a prostitute,he's not gonna like it he's
selling his body to go work atsomebody's house.
How is?
Hannah (08:07):
that not the same thing.
Courtney (08:08):
He's selling a service that he's selling a service
that his body has.
He's selling those calves,those calves those calves?
Hannah (08:17):
is that a family trait?
By the way?
Is it the calves?
Courtney (08:20):
oh no, I have skinny legs oh, okay, we always tell
rob that it's his calves, that'she loves his calves we make him
blush.
We talk about his calves.
So if you hear us saying thaton, episodes.
Cousin Marc (08:29):
We should just model him off.
Courtney (08:31):
Don't say that to him, because he will, he will, and
then he'll start sending youfeet pics because our group chat
.
I get feet pics.
I get feet pics that I did notask for At least you didn't get
anything else.
Cousin Marc (08:42):
It's better than the other picks you could get.
Courtney (08:44):
That's true.
Hannah (08:48):
I told him he should get a feet finder and make money
off of it.
That's it.
He could have you checking formoles.
Hey, what do you think of thismole Like?
Courtney (08:55):
oh my God, Did not hate to see all that you might
get the feet picks, that thepeople can swoop down out of the
sky and grab their meal fromthe river.
Hannah (09:06):
Oh man, Read the next one.
No, I'm coughing.
Okay, his own plumbingcomplaints got the Muswell Hill
murderer captured.
Oh my gosh, he clogged drains.
Why is it always the fuckingdrains?
Oh my gosh.
Oh this one, yeah, of courseyou know, robert Mullen Is it.
Well, let's see, between 1978and 1983, serial murderer Dennis
(09:30):
Nilsen.
Oh my God, there was more thanone of them.
Cousin Marc (09:32):
Dennis Nilsen.
Yeah, okay, sorry.
Hannah (09:34):
Killed 12 men in a London neighborhood.
Ooh, london, yeah.
Cousin Marc (09:38):
And then he was trying to just like Dahmer, he
was trying to disintegrate themwith acid.
Just like Dominar, he wastrying to disintegrate them with
acid.
It's like he's trying to readahead and then flush them down
the drain.
Courtney (09:47):
And why do people keep doing that when people keep
getting caught that way?
That's what I don't understand.
Cousin Marc (09:51):
Well, wait, watch how he gets caught.
Hannah (09:53):
Oh, no, he became known as the Muswell Hill murderer.
He strangled his victims andthen keep their bodies in his
apartment, eventually dissectingthem and burning most of their
remains.
Them and burning most of theirremains.
Authorities apprehended himafter Nilsen and others in his
building called a plumbercomplaining of clogged drains.
The plumbers traced theblockages to the top floor
apartment where Nilsen lived andfound that the blockages
consisted of flesh and humanbone pieces.
(10:13):
Nilsen confessed to police, whodiscovered bags of human
remains in his home, and he wasarrested and sentenced to life
in prison.
Wow, he should have rented ahotel room.
Courtney (10:22):
Wow, oh, you should have rented a hotel room.
Wow, oh, like Dahmer yeah.
Cousin Marc (10:25):
You should have rented a hotel room.
Courtney (10:27):
Under a fake ID.
Cousin Marc (10:29):
So here's the thing Too close to home.
When they called the plumber,the plumber went out to the
street, the plumber not aplumber A plumber Plumber A
plumber.
Hannah (10:40):
A plumber.
No, we love the accent.
I'm just teasing you, I knowyou do See, you got him coughing
now.
Cousin Marc (10:48):
It's contagious.
How'd you do that from 300miles away?
Courtney (10:52):
In the virtual, she's a witch.
The tea, she's a witch Fuckingputt nums, fucking putt nums,
what?
Cousin Marc (10:58):
happened was the plumber went into the streets in
a manhole and that was whereshe started to see the skin, and
then, oh good.
Courtney (11:07):
Imagine being that guy and being like Nope straight up
Monday.
Cousin Marc (11:12):
So listen.
So Nielsen found out that theywere down there, so it like
highly intoxicated two o'clockin the morning he climbed down
in there to clean it all out.
So they didn't investigate more.
Wow, yeah.
Courtney (11:27):
You would have to be intoxicated.
Cousin Marc (11:28):
Somebody clean this .
Something's going on.
Courtney (11:31):
You would have had to have been completely inebriated
to do that.
That's repulsive, oh God.
Cousin Marc (11:38):
Could you imagine cleaning that and someone
flushes the toilet while you'regoing?
Courtney (11:42):
I think shit would be the last thing on your mind of
being covered in when you'redown there in literally people's
bodies.
Yeah, it would be the icing ontop of the cake Shit, or the
unchewed corn people's bodies.
So yeah, we'll be the icing ontop of the cake shit why they
don't chew with corn oh,sprinkles.
Hannah (11:57):
That's another thing like why does corn come out
whole?
Cousin Marc (12:00):
I don't know you said you, you guys said, you
could handle it you can't, oh,I'm handling it?
Hannah (12:05):
you can't digest corn.
Courtney (12:06):
I don't know why do we eat it?
Hannah (12:08):
what nutrients is, if it just comes out?
Courtney (12:10):
nothing we're.
We're stupid, people are stupid.
I don't know why do so.
Why do we eat it?
What nutrients is it if it justcomes out whole?
Probably nothing.
We're stupid.
People are stupid.
I don't know why do we drinkalcohol?
It gives us nothing.
Next, next.
Cousin Marc (12:18):
Next.
Hannah (12:19):
After an NFL career didn't work out, a football
player became a serial killer.
Cousin Marc (12:23):
Yeah, the I-5 killer.
Courtney (12:24):
That's a quick jump.
It's a very big jump.
It's like you know whatFootball didn't work out.
Fuck this shit, I'm going tokill people.
Cousin Marc (12:32):
Yeah.
I don't remember his name, butI remember.
Hannah (12:34):
Randall Woodfield I recognize that name Was both a
football star and a criminal.
As a teenager, the widereceiver for Newport High School
in Oregon in the late 1960salso got arrested on a charge of
indecent exposure.
Okay, he went on to play forPortland State University and
was drafted by the Green BayPackers, but he was cut during
training camp after beingrepeatedly arrested for indecent
(12:54):
exposure.
Courtney (12:55):
Okay, obviously like he's Green Bay Pack and not
pants.
Cousin Marc (12:59):
He's holding the cheese.
Hannah (13:01):
Wait, what was that episode that we had where they
talked about having theextension?
Do you remember that?
The balls extension that was inone of these books?
Right, the balls extension?
Yes, remember, remember, theywould purposely put an extension
on their balls, so when theysat, I think hannah's making up
some kind of medieval ballstorture you don't remember
because it would talk about theepisode.
(13:22):
I think rob was talking to herabout it yeah, remember they
would wear the tunics, but thenthey would have like yes, yes,
it was a medieval thing.
Courtney (13:28):
Yeah, that was from the other book?
Hannah (13:30):
Yeah, I don't know, I just brought that up in my brain
.
Don't ask why.
Cousin Marc (13:33):
Hannah's got balls on the mind, balls on the mind,
that's it.
Hannah (13:37):
Okay, here we are.
In 1975, he returned to Oregonwhere he was linked to multiple
robberies and knife point sexualassaults.
From 1980 to 1981, he killed asmany as 44 people in the
Pacific Northwest.
Courtney (13:48):
Holy hell, that was one year.
He was really mad about thefootball thing not working out.
Cousin Marc (13:52):
Yeah, and again you're on the West Coast
California, oregon, washingtonState.
Hannah (13:58):
There's just more people to kill.
Cousin Marc (14:00):
That's it.
Hannah (14:01):
More opportunity, more places to hide them.
There's a lot of great forests.
That's where Bigfoot hangs out.
Oh God, god, love me, someBigfoot Sasquatch and Ted Bundy
all the time.
Courtney (14:11):
Sorry, okay, chewy, back to the book.
Hannah (14:15):
Are you sure you're okay with me?
Keep reading.
I feel bad.
I promise you I'm going to belike if I try to read Genealogy
websites brought down the GoldenState Killer, which I think
this is what we did yeah.
We talked about that.
Between 1974 and 1986, a manknown alternatively as the
Visalia Ransacker, the East AreaRapist, the original Night
Stalker and the Golden StateKiller, terrorized different
(14:37):
areas of Northern CaliforniaOver three different crime
sprees.
He committed 120 burglaries, 51sexual assaults and at least 13
murders.
Joseph D'Angelo was identifiedand arrested in 2018, at which
point he delivered a fullconfession.
He was caught by authoritiesusing DNA evidence.
His genetic material taken fromcrime scenes matched with that
of members of the D'Angelofamily on genealogy research
(14:59):
websites and investigatorsnarrowed it down to him.
Courtney (15:01):
I'm sorry but you're killing people and you didn't
think to ask your family atChristmas.
Hey, any of you guys doing23andMe?
Hannah (15:07):
Anyone doing ancestrycom ?
Cousin Marc (15:09):
Well see, when he was doing the break-ins and the
rapes and everything, he wouldhave one person tie the other
one up, yeah, and then he'd takeplates and put them on top of
the male victim.
Courtney (15:21):
So they would know if they moved.
Cousin Marc (15:23):
If he moved, the plates would fall and he'd know
they'd move.
Courtney (15:27):
Yeah, he was really well thought out.
He was a very interesting.
He was an ex-pop, of course hewas.
Cousin Marc (15:33):
Which is why he was able to be eluded for so long,
because he was being told whatwas going on, dear God, and
where they were, what,everything, all the
investigations were, and he knewwhat they were going to look
for too.
Courtney (15:46):
I mean that training you can't get out of your head.
You know what they're going tolook for you.
You can't get out of your head.
You know what they're gonnalook for.
Hannah (15:56):
You know where they're gonna go first you know how much
time you have before theyrespond.
Yeah, damn, hiding in plainsight.
Keep going.
Yeah, well, let's do one more.
Let's see.
Okay, the golden state killerwaited for his victims in their
bedrooms.
Yes, I did know that the goldenstate killer, who killed at
least 13 people from 1974 to1986, wasn't identified until
the 2010s as j D'Angelo, a homeinvader who assaulted women and
sometimes killed them.
He wouldn't attack people whilethey slept, but preferred to
(16:16):
wait for them to wake up.
He'd break into their home,stay at the entrance to their
bedroom and tap his knifeagainst the wall until they woke
up.
I would rather just be attackedin my sleep.
Courtney (16:25):
Yeah, that's just weird.
And that's where you have tohave some kind of weird power
trip situation, because you justbroke in and you're just
waiting for them, like imagineyou're not in a rush, you're
just hanging out, that's it.
What if they didn't wake uptill morning?
Would he leave?
I have so many questions?
Yeah, because he was escapingin and out of people's windows
and stuff.
Cousin Marc (16:44):
Yeah, I can't remember if it was him or if it
was BTK had one of them had gonein and sat there for like three
hours and four, four hours, andthen the person never showed up
, so we left talk about apatient man sitting in a closet,
I want to say that was the btkit might have.
Courtney (17:00):
I think it was because we and we really he was an
idiot we didn't really know muchabout him because we haven't
done an episode on him and whenwe started reading one of these
books or well, this book, but itwas one of the episodes we did
in the beginning there was likethree or four that were all
about him and we were like weshould do an episode on this guy
because he's definitely got alot going on.
Hannah (17:18):
He was a weirdo yeah, so there's one more on this page,
so do you guys care if I just dothat one?
Okay, serial killer johnwangasey also worked as a party
clown, which I think oh god, Iknew this.
Courtney (17:29):
I hate clowns.
Clowns are the only cannibalism.
And clowns, come on the Cs.
Well, I have to say.
Hannah (17:35):
I have to say, though, I loved the newest uh movie, it
and it too.
I really enjoyed them.
I hated the book.
I gave that a one star.
It was the worst stephen kingbook I've ever read, but I liked
the movies stephen king.
If you're listening, we loveyou no, we love you, stephen
king, we love you huge fans justI didn't like the book.
Courtney (17:56):
I don't know I just don't like clowns casey said,
and I quote and here I amquoting.
Cousin Marc (18:03):
The best they can get me on is having an illegal
mortuary.
Courtney (18:08):
I don't even know what to say to that.
I have a comment for everythingand you just caught me
mid-drink and I'm like I don'thave it.
Cousin Marc (18:14):
I mean he has a point.
Most of the bodies were buriedin the crawlspace of his house.
Courtney (18:19):
I don't understand this.
Why do people kill people?
I'm going to do Keep them in myhouse.
I hate the idea of like a mousedying in the walls or something
and all that decay, and thesepeople are straight up like I'm
going to murder one person amonth and I'm going to keep them
in my house.
You think about like they wanttrophies, right, they take a
piece of hair or a piece ofjewelry or a sweatshirt or
(18:39):
something.
Hannah (18:40):
I don't know, Take the gloved hand.
Oh God.
Courtney (18:45):
My wrists hurt because they're just picturing the
sympathy, pain of havingsomebody just You're dead.
Cousin Marc (18:51):
I know You're dead.
You're not feeling it.
Courtney (18:53):
I'm feeling it right now, though that's unfortunately
the truth.
She's in her feels.
I'm in my feels.
Hannah (18:58):
On July 30th 1999, the Kansas City Star made note of
how it was National Clown Weekwith a short article about the
heavily made-up children'sentertainers.
A file photo ran with the pieceand it must have been hastily
chosen or carelessly approved,because it was a photo of a
long-ago convicted andsince-executed Chicago-area
serial killer, john Wayne Gacy.
Yeah, that's really bad.
He worked as a birthday partyentertainer named Pogo the Clown
(19:19):
, between committing more than30 murders.
That's pretty bad.
Yeah, you can't just look upclown and just be like, oh, this
one looks good, and then it'dbe the mark like it's just not,
but see he job opening.
Cousin Marc (19:35):
If you look at all the clowns they all had you know
circle makeup, you knoweverything was smooth lined,
yeah all his came to point indifferent spots.
Courtney (19:45):
So it was a little more freaky.
Pronounced.
Yeah, I don't like clowns.
Hannah (19:51):
Clowns are a no-go for me, but I liked it I did.
I like Bill Skarsgård too,which is probably why I like the
movie so much.
Courtney (20:00):
Another boyfriend, a third boyfriend.
Hannah (20:02):
That's a clown.
No, what next?
I like the movie so much.
Another boyfriend, a thirdboyfriend.
Courtney (20:04):
That's a clown.
No, what next Chucky?
Ew, no, that one creeps me out.
I've never seen it though.
No me, neither Dolls.
I used to have porcelain dollsthat my grandmother gave me as a
kid, and so I had like wallsand walls and walls of porcelain
dolls.
Cousin Marc (20:18):
You did, yeah, so yeah, so dolls are also.
Wow for me what happened?
What you do is you take thedolls and you take the.
You take the eyeballs out, thenput little candles inside them.
Courtney (20:31):
Oh god, that's a terrible love.
My friend barbara, I found Iwas in an abandoned house and I
found these little like nakedbaby, like figurines.
They were like maybe not evenlike half an inch tall.
So I sent them to her becauseshe loves like filling vases
with baby heads and stuff insideher decor and she's like
courtney.
I'm sending them back.
I made something for you andshe made me earrings out of
these naked little babies.
(20:52):
I have.
Hannah (20:55):
I've never heard of this friend before yes, barbara,
she's like, barbara must be.
Courtney (20:59):
barbara must be in her 50s or 60s.
Um, she loves antiquing, sheloves creepy shit.
I'll show you her profile.
She's great, she's great.
Hannah (21:06):
You can't wear those at work Naked.
Courtney (21:08):
Baby little, I'll send a picture of you.
I've never worn them becauseI'm not into the creepy baby
doll thing, but I was like, ohthank you, barbara.
Hannah (21:16):
She's like I made them just for you.
Courtney (21:24):
Shit.
What would you wear those?
I have no idea.
You can't wear them to work.
Cousin Marc (21:26):
I've never worn them Halloween party, that's
true.
Or creepy naked baby dollfestival Festival.
Courtney (21:29):
I could re-gift them to you if you're into that.
No, oh there you go.
Cousin Marc (21:33):
You can hang them up right there in the bookshelf.
Courtney (21:35):
Oh no, I'll get Cousin Mark's address and I'll send
them to him.
Hannah (21:39):
Don't put a return address.
He Don't put a return addressin this open.
He'll open it in like nakedbaby earrings and he'll just be
like.
Courtney (21:43):
Courtney's been here.
Yeah, aren't you wearing them?
Hannah (21:50):
Look, they found a new home.
I don't know if his wife willlike that very much.
Maybe she could wear them Likehey, honey, you want to go make
your baby.
Courtney (21:57):
Does she have her ears pierced?
You could each wear one.
Cousin Marc (22:00):
Oh no, I made her sit through the Albert Fish
documentary and after that wasdone she says I'm all set with
the child killers.
It's not for everybody.
Courtney (22:11):
No, it's not it's not for everybody.
All right, it's not Findanother one.
Another one, let's see Casey,again, I feel like they do them
in clusters.
Yeah, should I skip over him?
No, finish him.
All right, finish him.
I don't know where my accentjust came from.
Finish him, finish him.
I'm not saying Mortal Kombat,finish him, mortal.
Cousin Marc (22:30):
Kombat.
Hannah (22:32):
Gacy was a prominent and productive man of stature Okay,
interesting, john Wayne Gacy iscommonly associated with his
Pogo the Clown character, but henever killed or lured victims
while in his clown makeup andcostume that would just be
sinful.
He performed as a birthdayparty entertainer on weekends
when he wasn't managing KentuckyFried Chicken or serving on
several Chicagoland business andmen's organizations.
I'm sorry, didn't they say he?
Courtney (22:52):
was prominent.
What do you mean?
He's a clown.
Yeah, he actually met.
Cousin Marc (22:56):
Rosaline Carter.
He's a clown.
Jimmy Carter's wife.
Courtney (22:59):
Really, she's alive still right.
Hannah (23:01):
Or she was no they died, she died, she survived the
encounter with him.
That's what I'm getting at hevoted in this election and then
died.
Yeah, because the flags arestill at mass for another five
or so days, right?
Cousin Marc (23:12):
Nah maybe I don't know Something like that.
Hannah (23:15):
It's a full month that they do it for I think.
Courtney (23:20):
Yeah, so I think it was like that.
Hannah (23:22):
Am I right?
Courtney (23:23):
Another her Kentucky accent just came out.
Cousin Marc (23:25):
Something like that .
I don't know where it came from.
She was just talking aboutKentucky Fried Chicken.
Hannah (23:29):
Back to Polo.
That's why Some fried chickens.
Cousin Marc (23:34):
That was Gacy's father-in-law.
He owned Kentucky FriedChickens and he gave them a
managerial job.
Hannah (23:40):
Well, he must know the secret recipe.
A manaterial job?
Well, he must know the secretrecipe.
I want to know what the secretrecipe is the secret sauce it's
blood.
Cousin Marc (23:52):
It's not campfire sauce, it's blood, it's better
than saying it was semen.
Courtney (23:55):
I mean, I don't know.
Cousin Marc (23:56):
It's not Chick-fil-A sauce, that's for
sure.
Ooh, Chick-fil-A sauce.
Courtney (24:00):
Well, we can't get that because it's Sunday and
they're Chick-fil-A sauce, maybethat's what.
Well, we can't get that becauseit's Sunday and they're
Chick-fil-A and they're not nicepeople.
Hannah (24:04):
No, they have this thing with, like going to church or
something.
Courtney (24:05):
They also have this thing about not liking gay
people, and they're closed onSunday, so it doesn't matter you
want me to keep going.
Yeah, I don't know when to stop.
Why don't we do one more?
Hannah (24:18):
We're at 25, the Night Stalker.
Courtney (24:20):
Why the Night?
That's such a like.
I feel like if I was going tobe a race car driver, my name
would be like the Night Stalker.
Why race car driving?
Well, because I wouldn't be akiller.
That would be weird.
Well, no, I don't want to be akiller, but like, why wouldn't I
be a race car driver?
Why would you Drive?
Cousin Marc (24:33):
fast.
Hannah (24:48):
But all you do is auto, that's true.
See, I wouldn't do likecircular racing, though.
I'd be like a rally driver,like I'd be like going through
the woods.
There you go, anyway.
It's back to our thing.
Okay, a serial killer?
What stalker?
Okay, a serial killer, known asa night stalker, haunted
nighttime los angeles from 1984to 1985, staging home invasions,
sexually assaulting inhabitants, murdering them and leaving
satanic symbols behind.
He killed 13 people and evadedcapture even after the LAPD
figured out his identity andplastered the mugshot of Richard
Ramirez all over the city.
While that unfolded, ramirezwas back home in Arizona and he
(25:12):
didn't know police were closingin.
He came into LA via a Greyhoundbus, walked into the
convenience store and wasspotted by an older woman of
Latino descent, teen of descent.
Why does that matter?
Yeah, I don't know why that'spertinent here, but okay, who
saw his picture in a newspaperjust minutes earlier and shouted
el maton, the killer.
Maybe that's why?
that's why it was necessary okayramirez ran away, but after
(25:32):
multiple people tried to stophim, he was taken down by an
angry mob.
Courtney (25:35):
Citizens arrest pretty much, yeah, right in the middle
of the road now has anybodyever noticed that these stories
it's always, it's never liketook public transportation, it's
always a greyhound every singletime it's a greyhound bus and
like I just find that so funny.
No matter where we're talkingabout within the states, it's
always a greyhound bus.
(25:56):
I'm gonna start taking data,I'm gonna get a whiteboard for
over in my area and I'm gonnastart doing a greyhound check.
Let let's do it.
There's already one on there.
Let's do it.
I'm going to have whiteboardsall over Hannah's wall in here.
Hannah (26:10):
Well, that's soon going to be full with another bookcase
.
That's what those things are,is it this Yep On that side?
Courtney (26:16):
I need to buy a house so Rob can build me a bookcase.
Cousin Marc (26:19):
There, you go.
Courtney (26:20):
I also need to have money to buy a house.
Hannah (26:22):
You do you, can you do?
Courtney (26:25):
Yeah, I need to have time to buy a house.
Hannah (26:27):
Yes, yes, that's more of what I was going to try to get.
Cousin Marc (26:28):
We're too busy incorporating companies.
God yeah.
Courtney (26:33):
It was one of those things where I was like this is
either going to be really braveor really stupid.
It was both.
Cousin Marc (26:39):
that says it's only stupid if it doesn't work.
Courtney (26:41):
Well, that's the reason why it's partially both
Stories for another day.
Hopefully it'll have all turneditself around by the next time
we talk.
All right, I'm going to stopour recording here.
Wait, should we say goodbye?
Hannah (26:52):
Oh, I'm not going to stop our recording here.
I feel like we should saygoodbye to me.
You spent like two and a halfhours on your list, well, I was
going to say goodbye to him.
Courtney (26:59):
I wasn't just going to press log off on him, I was
just going to hit stop recording.
But shouldn't we say goodbye tohim?
Hannah (27:03):
though, on air.
Courtney (27:04):
Okay, sure, go ahead.
Hannah Lead us on your goodbye.
Should we sing?
Hannah (27:07):
him a song Goodbye.
So long A V to say adieu.
Courtney (27:10):
I don't know the words to this one Adieu, adieu to you
.
Okay, this is getting reallyweird.
Goodbye, welcome to us.
We appreciate you coming on anddoing your thing, and you're
obviously welcome back wheneveryou have more things you want to
yap about.
Hannah (27:26):
Yes, Always All right, that's awesome.
Cousin Marc (27:28):
I would love to be back.
You guys just let me know andwe'll figure out a time and
we'll banter.
Courtney (27:35):
Sounds perfect, Banter .
It's what we do best.
Hannah (27:36):
And don't forget we have a group chat, so we need to
hear from you because I'mworking the ladies, of course.
Thanks, wonders, bye.
Thanks for listening today.
Wicked wanderings is hosted byme, hannah, and co-hosted by me
courtney and it's produced byrob fitzpatrick music by sasha m
.
If you enjoyed today's episode,don't forget to leave a rating
(27:58):
and review and be sure to followon all socials.
You can find the links down inthe show notes.
If you are looking for somereally cozy t-shirts or hoodies,
head over to the merch store.
Thank you for being a part ofthe Wicked Wanderings community.
We appreciate every one of you.
Stay curious, keep exploringand always remember to keep on
wandering.
Thank you.
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