August 13, 2025 • 23 mins
Jonathan shares his spine-tingling experience with a medium who connected him to the spirit of Charles Hammond Gibson Jr., the former owner of a historic Boston museum where Jonathan volunteers. The medium referred to Gibson by his pen name "Richard Sudbury," a detail that wouldn't be common knowledge to most researchers.
• Jonathan describes the Gibson House Museum, a perfectly preserved Victorian townhouse in Boston's Back Bay where he's volunteered for 13+ years
• Details about the Victorian masquerade benefit held at an exclusive private club where the medium encounter took place
• Jonathan's elaborate handmade mask inspired by the museum's Japanese wallpaper featuring gilded fruit and vines
• The medium correctly identified "Richard" (Charles Hammond Gibson Jr.'s pen name) as a spirit present at the event
• Hannah and Courtney share other experiences with mediums, including one who accurately described Hannah's apartment layout to her mother
• Introduction of a new segment featuring Hannah's horror movie reviews, beginning with "The Witch" (2015)
• Discussion of creating rating systems for both creepiness and gore levels in horror films
Don't forget to follow Hannah's bookstagram at hannah's.bookcase on Instagram to see her reviews of horror films and books!
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Wicked Wanderings is hosted by Hannah & Courtney and it's produced by Rob Fitzpatrick. Music by Sascha Ende.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Hannah (00:00):
When do you think we can start coloring our new?
Remember the big picture we gotfor October.
For Halloween August 1st countsas Halloween.
It should be out on the tableafter we're done with those.
Courtney (00:10):
I won't even talk about why my house isn't
decorated for Halloween.
It's somebody's fault, we won'tput the blame on them publicly.
Yeah, you were really ready todo that.
I was so ready, and then thebox didn't come home and I was
like, oh, and the bats?
Hannah (00:21):
Because you have what?
300 bats.
Courtney (00:22):
Something like that, okay.
Hannah (00:37):
Hi, I'm Hannah and I'm Courtney.
Join us as we delve into truecrime, paranormal encounters and
all things spooky.
Courtney (00:43):
Grab your flashlight and get ready to wander into the
darkness with us.
This is.
Hannah (00:50):
Wicked Wanderings.
Hello Wanderers.
We have a special guest today.
So hello Courtney, hi Hannah.
And we have no other than mybrother, jonathan.
Hi Jonathan's here with ustoday, so happy to be back.
Jonathan (01:22):
It's been ages, it has been ages.
Courtney (01:23):
We're so excited.
It's been what since thebeginning of the year, since
Jonathan's been on us today, sohappy to be back.
It's been ages.
It has been ages.
We're so excited.
It's been what Since thebeginning of the year, since
Jonathan's been on an episode.
Jonathan (01:29):
Right, it really has.
Yeah, we were talking about theApalachicola State Killer.
Courtney (01:34):
Right, because we I mean obviously that dropped
after the first, but we recordedthat like right before
Christmas.
Jonathan (01:39):
Right, yeah.
Courtney (01:40):
It was like right before.
Hannah (01:41):
But didn't that like really cool documentary come out
right after John talked aboutit, because I feel like I've
just watched it, or was it anold one that I had watched?
Courtney (01:47):
I'm not sure I have a really big backlog of
documentaries to watch at thispoint.
To be honest with you guys.
Hannah (01:53):
Well, thank you for coming on today and talking
about all things spooky.
Jonathan (01:55):
Thanks for having me.
Hannah (01:56):
All right, so should we talk about this medium thing?
I want to know about it.
Jonathan (02:01):
Yeah, we wanted to talk about something spooky and
I mentioned that I recently sawa medium well in the spring.
So a little bit of context.
So I work as a volunteer at amuseum in Boston in the Back Bay
neighborhood called the GibsonHouse Museum, and I've been
involved with them since I wasin college in Boston, since like
(02:22):
2012.
So going on like 13 plus yearsnow.
It's an extraordinary house.
It's a six-story townhouse inBack Bay built in about 1860 and
occupied by three generationsof the same family before it
became a museum.
Lock, stock and barrel all ofthe original furniture.
Last updates were electricityin about 1912.
(02:47):
The last decorative updateswere done at about the turn of
the century an absolute dream,cordia, you would die.
Hannah (02:53):
It's gorgeous.
Jonathan (02:54):
I'm dying right now it's uh, it's preserved in what
some scholars said in victorianamber.
So if you walk in and it's likethe family has just left, so it
has the china in there butler'spantry, there's gowns in the
closet upstairs.
It's just really wonderful.
Courtney (03:10):
When are we going?
When are we going?
Jonathan (03:14):
Oh, next time you come to Boston we'll make sure we
make an appointment Going toBoston.
Hannah (03:18):
Let's go but it's totally great.
Jonathan (03:20):
I love it.
Courtney (03:23):
You give her a little bit of music, and this is what
happens.
Jonathan (03:26):
So in the spring we host our annual benefit and I
was on the benefit committee andwe host it at a private club in
the Back Bay and it changesevery year.
I can't mention the name of theclub this year because it was
part of our contract Not tomention the name of the club.
Really, yes, we actually got inquite a bit of trouble because
(03:46):
we had a little bit of like post, pr stuff, like thank you for
coming to the benefit at X club.
And they actually reached out tous and said you have to take
that down.
Courtney (03:56):
So I mean something just has to be a secret.
Jonathan (04:00):
Old money has old rules.
Courtney (04:02):
I respect most rules.
Jonathan (04:04):
But like this club, you know, we took over a series
of reception rooms in theirballroom.
It was really lovely.
We had cocktails, heavy horsd'oeuvres, jazz music.
Hannah (04:16):
The outfits people come up with are fantastic.
Jonathan (04:19):
The theme was Victorian masquerade, so
everybody wore masks.
When I was in Venice I boughtsome masks.
My boyfriend did too.
Hannah (04:25):
You made your own mask.
Jonathan (04:26):
I made my own mask and so did my boyfriend, but we
also bought masks in Venice andwe wore them throughout the
evening.
It was a lot of fun.
Hannah (04:32):
Can you explain your mask?
Because what he did was, when Ifound out that he made it, I
was like what?
Jonathan (04:39):
So when we were in Venice we did buy masks.
My boyfriend bought one thatwas like it almost looked almost
like a bishop's mitre and hadlike musical notes all over it.
It was really cool.
And then I bought one that wasa gilded version of a plague
doctor's mask with a reallylarge nose.
Courtney (04:57):
I love a plague doctor .
Jonathan (04:59):
And we were like we can't eat hors d'oeuvres or talk
to people in these enormousmasks, so we wore some in the
beginning and then we said weneed alternatives.
So we had these like very basic, just eye masks, and what I did
was I actually did molding ofall these different like
ornamental curls and grapes,vines and things like that and
(05:23):
leaves grapes, vines and thingslike that and leaves Because in
the front hall of the museumthere's this really amazing
wallpaper that came from Japanand it's modeled after leather
wall coverings.
And it looks like grapes andpomegranates, gilded, and it
goes all over the walls.
It's really an extraordinarywallpaper and it was put up
about 1890.
(05:44):
So I created the mask toreflect that.
So it's gilded fruit and vinesand leaves all over this mask.
Hannah (05:53):
So I believe that my brother is very talented when it
comes to artistic things, butwhen he sent us a picture and
was like, oh, I made this, I'mlike you did, like really.
Courtney (06:07):
You beat me to it because I was just about to say
you have pictures of the massthat you're willing to share
because a lot of times thewanders ask for pictures of the
things that we talk about, so Itry to either post them to a
story or post them to ourinstagram are you?
Hannah (06:16):
okay with that.
I totally have pictures.
Courtney (06:17):
Perfect, I will message you for them, because I
think that that would goperfectly, because an etsy
account will probably pay likeat least 50 to 75 dollars for
that.
I was just telling him abouthis creation earlier today that
people on etsy would pay for it.
You just need more time.
Jonathan (06:30):
One of the things that we wanted to do during this.
You know, theme of victorianmasquerade was uh, actually have
two, um, tarot readers.
So it was my job as part of thecommittee to be able to, like,
scope out tarot readers.
And now there's.
You know, two ways to do that.
One is there are partycompanies that have tarot
readers who are just there forfun.
They're there to read yourtarot cards and make sure you
(06:53):
have a really good time, andthey're just entertainers.
They're not really there toread, they're there to entertain
you.
And I said, well, if we'regoing to do this and we're going
, to do this with some fidelity.
Well, if we're going to do this,and we're going to do this with
some fidelity, I want to dothis authentically.
So I talked to a variety ofdifferent tea houses, as we call
them up, near, you know, uphere in new england, um, and we
settled on one, regina russell'stea room, which is a really old
(07:16):
tea room out of the south shore.
Uh came highly reviewed, umworked with some lovely people
there and they sent two tarotcard readers.
So I was one of the firstpeople to sit down with one of
the tarot card readers.
Not only did he read my tarotcards, but he also was a medium
and he said things that I camewith a little bit of
(07:38):
apprehension.
I enjoy having my tarot cardread, but I was not expecting
the mediumship part and he toldme all sorts of things, things
that other people would not know.
But the most exciting thing, Ithought, and kind of the
scariest thing, was that he saidthere's an older gentleman
standing behind you who says hewants you to know he's here and
(08:00):
his name is Richard.
Do you know who that might be?
Well, I don't know anyone namedRichard.
There's no grandfather namedRichard, there's no uncle, no
one who's deceased whose name isRichard and within a minute it
came to me the last generationwho owned the Gibson House
Museum, whose benefit this wasfor.
His name was Charles HammondGibson Jr and he was a gay man
(08:24):
who lived quite openly until hedied in the 1950s, and I often
say he was my first boyfriend,you know he.
Hannah (08:33):
Because of all the work you did, all the work I did
there.
Jonathan (08:35):
All the evenings I spent there alone.
Because he was a tour guide andeverything too, was a poet, he
was a writer, he wrote fiction,he wrote biography you could
just summon him right lecturedand you know, there's, uh,
several portraits of him in thehouse and we just had this
wonderful up into his grave.
We had this wonderful kinship.
So I was like, oh, he's myfirst boyfriend.
(08:55):
Um, his pen name was RichardSudbury and most people would be
like, oh, that's kind of astretch, right?
Oh there's Richard.
And of course there's Richard.
I love his pen name so much.
It's my Wi-Fi password, it's mypassword to get my 401k account
in different ways.
Courtney (09:15):
I was going to say it's not just hashtag.
Richard Sudbury.
To clarify for anybody whoknows him you will not get in
with those pieces of information.
Hannah (09:22):
No, there's a lot more that goes with it.
Jonathan (09:23):
Social security number is but then it came to me I was
like oh, of course, why If hecame through?
And the medium was like oh,charles, Hamming Gibson's here.
Courtney (09:34):
I'd be like, yeah, you researched what museum you were
doing the benefit for Becauseyou don't relate to him as that,
you relate to him as Richardunder his pen name, because that
was his pen name, right.
Jonathan (09:43):
And I was like, oh, he's letting me know he's here,
and it freaked me out.
It was so powerful, I wasspeechless and I was like, yes,
I know exactly who that is.
So it was a wonderfulexperience.
Well, of course, I mean he wasknown for mixing gin in his
third floor bathroom duringProhibition.
(10:03):
He would have cocktails, butwhile he in the maybe the 20s,
through the 50s, he had alreadydecided that his family home in
Back Bay, boston, would be amuseum, so he would rope off
rooms of the house when he wouldhave cocktail parties and so he
would make everyone sit on thegrand staircase because he was
like you can't sit on any of thefurniture, so, of course, why
(10:26):
wouldn't he be at a party thatwas in benefit?
Courtney (10:28):
of the house that he left behind that he loved so
much, right so?
Jonathan (10:31):
of course, like we made a great party and a great
private club in back bay, whywouldn't he be there?
Courtney (10:36):
right, and why wouldn't?
Jonathan (10:37):
he speak up and be like hey, we've communed
multiple times, but now we havesomebody to say, hey, it's
richard and he's here and I waslike oh, charlie's here that is
so cool it freaked me out and itwas wonderful it was a good
freak yeah, I can't wait.
Um, I'm gonna go see him againthis fall.
That particular medium, becausehe knew so many things he was.
He read jewelry.
(11:00):
He was supposed to spend like10 minutes with me reading my
tarot cards.
We spent like a half hour.
He read jewelry.
He read um a jewelry you werewearing yeah, because some
people have the gift of readingjewelry.
They can see like, oh, this is,this is from a certain person.
This means something inparticular.
Hannah (11:19):
I guess it's like there are certain people that are
really good with like hauntedobjects.
Yeah that's true.
Courtney (11:25):
They know about certain things, about objects,
where they came from, whatpossibly could be in things, so
that makes sense that someoneelse could do that, because it
holds energy and that'sinteresting and that's
interesting, that makes me verycurious about and I know I'm not
a skeptic, but I know a lot ofpeople who maybe are listening
or maybe who just think aboutthis kind of thing in general
(11:46):
are skeptics.
I would be interested to bringa piece of jewelry that I very
much knew the whole history toto somebody to then just sit
there and not give anyinformation and see how accurate
it was.
Like I have my grandmother'sengagement ring that she wore
her entire life and it waspurchased and made just for her.
Hannah (12:01):
So it'd be interesting to see.
Well, maybe we should bringthat on our trip next weekend
and see if we can find someone.
Courtney (12:07):
The idea of bringing that piece of jewelry anywhere
makes me so nervous.
I'm one of those people wholike gets something fancy and
then I get so nervous about itthat I lock it away someplace
you don't ever want to wear itabsolutely, and that's so sad,
because it's like this piece ofjewelry was given to you to wear
, to embrace yeah but I'm sonervous something bad will
happen to it.
Maybe if I get like a reallysturdy chain and I can wear it,
(12:29):
I think around my neck.
Hannah (12:30):
Really interesting if we could find someone next weekend
on our trip to find someonethat might be able to totally
spook me out.
Courtney (12:38):
I know I've told my mom went to a medium and I
didn't even know she believed inthat kind of stuff and the
thing the medium was like.
I think my mom was disappointed.
The medium was very focused onme instead of her and the things
that this medium said my momdidn't even know about my
apartment.
They were describing the fulllayout of my apartment to my mom
and this is the apartment shehad before this one, correct?
(13:00):
yeah, yeah, my mom had been inmy apartment exactly one time
and this medium was telling her,like your daughter is trying to
tell you something, you're notlistening to her.
She keeps telling you that shecan't sleep.
It's not about sleep, you'renot listening to her.
Her bed needs to move from thelocation that it's in her bed.
She cannot sleep there.
My mom's like what are youtalking about?
What do you mean the locationher bed is in?
And she's like why is her bedacross the front door of her
(13:22):
apartment?
And I lived in a very oldbuilding and so the front door
was non-functional, totallyillegal in the state of
massachusetts.
But I'll go past that so my bedI had put I mean I was in my
early 20s, I had put up likesome kind of wall hanging and I
just put my bed there becausethere was a whole fireplace and
steam heating unit and it was astudio so there was really no
place to put your furniture ifyou didn't put it directly in
(13:43):
front of the store.
And this woman was adamant.
She was like if she does notmove that bed, she will not
sleep, it will not be good.
She needs to move the bed.
And my mom calls me she's likethis medium is cracked.
She seems to think that youwould put your bed in front of a
door.
And I'm like, holy shit, my bedis in front of a door.
And I'm like, holy shit, my bedis in front of my door.
Wow, and who would ever likethat's such a random thing.
Jonathan (14:01):
That's not something you can like infer.
No, yeah.
Courtney (14:04):
And at that point in time, my mom and I didn't talk
all the time, we didn't have agood relationship, and so I had
experienced things within myhome that I hadn't shared with
her, and the medium explainedalmost all of them down to a T
(14:25):
and my mom was like well, Idon't know about any of that.
And so when my mom called me,she was like, oh my god, that's
exactly what the medium saidhappened to you and I didn't
know any of it.
Wow, so I've been dying to see amedium, but I haven't done it.
Hannah (14:30):
Oh, I'm worried the medium's trip.
We maybe we should.
I mean, what better place towhere we're going right?
Jonathan (14:35):
definitely look into who you're going to before.
Yes, 100.
Courtney (14:38):
Yes, 100%.
It's just like anything.
There's going to be people whosay they can do something and I
feel like certain areas are likehotspots for that kind of thing
.
Where we're going, definitelyone of those hotspots.
Jonathan (14:48):
And again you have some people who are just there
for entertainment and like it'snot a problem, but you have
people there who actually have agift.
Hannah (14:55):
So where we're going in america, we went to a shop
together, right, and they weretaking readings in the back room
.
But just looking at the shopI'm like, oh, this looks like
made in china threw up in hereand it's not very legit when we
went.
Jonathan (15:11):
It was very commercial , very um, and I was very
disappointed, but I think wehave a few other options up
there.
Hannah (15:19):
Well, if you know of one , please let us know.
Drag us along.
Jonathan (15:23):
Like I said, you guys won't be in that area, but South
Shore does have some greatstops.
Courtney (15:32):
We could be in that area though Make an appointment.
Jonathan (15:35):
I only live Virginia.
Courtney (15:36):
Russell's.
Jonathan (15:36):
Tea Room in Quincy Mass.
He was fantastic.
Courtney (15:40):
I think it would be interesting, too, to go to
somebody who you already had anexperience with, just because.
I feel like oftentimes there'sso many people who read tarot or
so many people who are mediumsand do mediumship that you're
talking about a differentexperience, because the person
who did it was very different.
Hannah (15:55):
Yeah.
Courtney (15:56):
I know one of the girls that I'm friends with.
She also loves to have tarotread, so she has like a spot I
think it's in Northampton thatshe loves to go to and she's
like that's where I'll go.
Like I don't know why she'slike I just I relate to this
person, I connect with thisperson.
That's where I'll friends whotell me they can read tarot, but
(16:22):
like, probably can't.
No, I haven't had my tarot readeither, but maybe I'm afraid
I'm like what's it gonna say?
Hannah (16:24):
I know right, is it gonna be something bad?
Which it could be?
Courtney (16:27):
I mean honestly I feel like that was good read it.
And then a lot of times peopleinternalize, based off of what
they know, onto the cards.
Yeah, that's the way that Ikind of interpretation.
Hannah (16:37):
I feel like also there's definitely interpretation that
you have to do.
Jonathan (16:42):
Um yeah, with tarot cards.
Hannah (16:44):
With the Bible too, like just kind of going back to our
childhood, like there'sinterpretation with it, with
everything.
Courtney (16:50):
With everything, with everything in life, it comes
down to experiences.
Hannah (16:52):
You can't take things down to like oh, this is the
death card, you're gonna die.
Like that's not.
Jonathan (16:57):
Yeah, no, it doesn't work that way.
Courtney (16:58):
Yeah, it's the death of something.
That's kind of the deck upsidedown, and then it doesn't
necessarily mean the opposite ofliterally whatever it is.
It could mean growth in adifferent direction instead of
(17:24):
death or something like that.
So today, to end our episode,we're going to try something a
little bit different.
We've been doing the cards fora long time and, while we feel
like that's still very important, we kind of wanted to leave off
on more of a positive and happynote.
So Hannah has been doing thischallenge throughout the summer
while she's taking her time off,and she is reviewing and
watching every horror movie inthis pack that she bought.
(17:46):
So we're going to do a randomHannah reviewed of a horror
movie at the end of each of ourepisodes.
If you guys hate it, write in,let us know.
If you love it, write in, letus know.
If you have feedback aboutHannah's review or the movie in
general, or one that you wanther to review, let us know.
Hannah (18:02):
So I have been going a little outside the pack.
I will say, uh-oh, she alreadybroke it, but the horror movie
pack that you can scratch offhas been so much fun.
I actually did it with Robyesterday and I said Rob, pick a
card, whatever calls to you,and we ended up watching the
absolute classic of the Soundsof the Lambs, which was
phenomenal.
But the movie I want to talkabout today is called the Witch.
(18:25):
Okay, and it's by Robert Eggers.
As a director, he's the sameguy that just did Nosferatu that
just came out last year.
That, of course, courtney camewith me.
So the Witch actually has ahuge basis in Salem and then the
family gets shunned and theyhave to go find their own way in
the land of Massachusetts.
The main actress is AnyaTaylor-Joy, which I think a lot
(18:47):
of people saw in Queen's Gambit.
She's a phenomenal actress, butshe was actually young during
this movie.
So it's about her kind offinding her way and the way the
Puritans were with religion andshe told everyone she was a
witch, but she wasn't.
But then it's spooky, it'scrazy.
They're afraid of the woodsbecause something lives there.
(19:09):
It's very dark and dreary andthere's no hope and it's just
how you probably would picturePuritan life back in the day,
where there just was nohappiness in anything you did.
All it was was shame and we'reall going to die.
We're all sinners and regret,and so it's phenomenal.
(19:30):
I actually made my mom watch it.
She didn't like it as much asnosferatu, which was fine, but I
absolutely loved this movie.
I thought the acting wasphenomenal.
The storyline was phenomenal.
I highly recommend.
I actually give it five out offive stars that's awesome.
Courtney (19:45):
what year did that one come out?
If you don't mind me askingGood question.
Hannah (19:48):
I have that right here.
It came out in 2015.
Courtney (19:51):
Okay, so it's not a terribly old film.
I know some people will askthat about films where they
really can't get into, like theold school horror, and I know
Hannah and I have hadconversations.
Sometimes I'm here while she'swatching her movie.
Hannah (20:02):
I'm working diligently, or Courtney.
Courtney (20:05):
But sometimes I know for myself I have a harder time
getting into the older horrormovies just because I'm like eye
roll, yeah, okay.
Hannah (20:12):
I think Robert Eggers is a little bit like Tim Burton,
where he kind of picks theseactors and actresses that they
really like.
So the father that's in thisfilm is Ralph Innocent.
He also was in Nosferatu, so Ithink he's he likes certain
actors and actresses, kind oflike Tim Burton, where he loves
(20:32):
Johnny Depp and now he's likingJenna Ortega and kind of having
these people act and act and actfor him.
But phenomenal.
I absolutely loved it.
Courtney (20:42):
You said five out of five was your final rating five
out of five and on a creepyscale.
I want to try to do a creepyscale as we're getting closer to
halloween, five being the verymost creepy you've ever seen,
one being like.
I've seen a lot better creepy.
What does it score on thecreepiness scale?
Hannah (20:57):
so I find that's a very hard question, only because like
are we looking for?
Like a gory, that's why I'masking it.
Courtney (21:03):
Why would I ask you a simple question?
Why would I ask you a simplequestion?
Why would I ask you a simplequestion?
Hannah (21:08):
If religious trauma and the occult scares you, I would
definitely give it a three outof five.
Okay, on the gore scale,probably only one out of five.
Courtney (21:20):
I think that I'm glad you brought that up, because
that's an important element too.
There are some people whoreally love scary and spooky,
yes, but they absolutely can'tdo the gore.
So I think we should probablydo a gore rating too moving
forward, I agree.
So yeah, there's not a lot ofgore and any kind of trigger
warnings, we'll let you guysknow too.
Hannah (21:34):
As always, we try to be really mindful about everybody's
mental health and making surethat you guys all know if
there's going to be somethingthat could be potentially
triggering 100% and the factgoing to be very particular
about my readings that I'mgiving these because I do want
to tell you guys, like what itis about the film I liked, what
I didn't like about it, whattrigger warnings are important,
because I do know how I find outabout these films, like people
(21:57):
tell me trigger stuff beforehand, um, but this is definitely a
religious trauma type and, um,actually in terms of like a
abuse, like I wouldn't saythere's anything like that, just
a lot of religious trauma andthe occult.
Courtney (22:12):
So if you don't like that, don't watch it and you do
post all of these reviews onyour bookstagram as well,
correct I've?
Been trying to be so good aboutthat.
Yes, it's hannah's dot bookcaseon instagram if you want to see
the books she's reading or ifyou want to see kind of a sneak
peek about the different moviesthat she's watching.
Hannah (22:26):
I know I've been going away from books lately and doing
horror films, but it's justkind of been my niche lately
that I've been enjoying.
You're mixing it up, nothingwrong with that.
Courtney (22:33):
Mixing it up.
Thank you, thanks, guys, we'llsee you guys, next time Bye,
wanderers.
Jonathan (22:39):
Bye.
Hannah (22:40):
Bye.
Thanks for listening today.
W Hosted by me Hannah andco-hosted by me Courtney, and
it's produced by Rob Fitzpatrick.
Music by Sasha N.
If you enjoyed today's episode,don't forget to leave a rating
and review and be sure to followon all socials.
You can find the links down inthe show notes.
If you're looking for somereally cozy t-shirts or hoodies,
(23:00):
head over to the merch store.
Thank you for being a part ofthe Wicked Wanderings community.
We appreciate every one of you.
When do you think we can start coloring our new?
Remember the big picture we gotfor October.
For Halloween August 1st countsas Halloween.
It should be out on the tableafter we're done with those.
Courtney (00:10):
I won't even talk about why my house isn't
decorated for Halloween.
It's somebody's fault, we won'tput the blame on them publicly.
Yeah, you were really ready todo that.
I was so ready, and then thebox didn't come home and I was
like, oh, and the bats?
Hannah (00:21):
Because you have what?
300 bats.
Courtney (00:22):
Something like that, okay.
Hannah (00:37):
Hi, I'm Hannah and I'm Courtney.
Join us as we delve into truecrime, paranormal encounters and
all things spooky.
Courtney (00:43):
Grab your flashlight and get ready to wander into the
darkness with us.
This is.
Hannah (00:50):
Wicked Wanderings.
Hello Wanderers.
We have a special guest today.
So hello Courtney, hi Hannah.
And we have no other than mybrother, jonathan.
Hi Jonathan's here with ustoday, so happy to be back.
Jonathan (01:22):
It's been ages, it has been ages.
Courtney (01:23):
We're so excited.
It's been what since thebeginning of the year, since
Jonathan's been on us today, sohappy to be back.
It's been ages.
It has been ages.
We're so excited.
It's been what Since thebeginning of the year, since
Jonathan's been on an episode.
Jonathan (01:29):
Right, it really has.
Yeah, we were talking about theApalachicola State Killer.
Courtney (01:34):
Right, because we I mean obviously that dropped
after the first, but we recordedthat like right before
Christmas.
Jonathan (01:39):
Right, yeah.
Courtney (01:40):
It was like right before.
Hannah (01:41):
But didn't that like really cool documentary come out
right after John talked aboutit, because I feel like I've
just watched it, or was it anold one that I had watched?
Courtney (01:47):
I'm not sure I have a really big backlog of
documentaries to watch at thispoint.
To be honest with you guys.
Hannah (01:53):
Well, thank you for coming on today and talking
about all things spooky.
Jonathan (01:55):
Thanks for having me.
Hannah (01:56):
All right, so should we talk about this medium thing?
I want to know about it.
Jonathan (02:01):
Yeah, we wanted to talk about something spooky and
I mentioned that I recently sawa medium well in the spring.
So a little bit of context.
So I work as a volunteer at amuseum in Boston in the Back Bay
neighborhood called the GibsonHouse Museum, and I've been
involved with them since I wasin college in Boston, since like
(02:22):
2012.
So going on like 13 plus yearsnow.
It's an extraordinary house.
It's a six-story townhouse inBack Bay built in about 1860 and
occupied by three generationsof the same family before it
became a museum.
Lock, stock and barrel all ofthe original furniture.
Last updates were electricityin about 1912.
(02:47):
The last decorative updateswere done at about the turn of
the century an absolute dream,cordia, you would die.
Hannah (02:53):
It's gorgeous.
Jonathan (02:54):
I'm dying right now it's uh, it's preserved in what
some scholars said in victorianamber.
So if you walk in and it's likethe family has just left, so it
has the china in there butler'spantry, there's gowns in the
closet upstairs.
It's just really wonderful.
Courtney (03:10):
When are we going?
When are we going?
Jonathan (03:14):
Oh, next time you come to Boston we'll make sure we
make an appointment Going toBoston.
Hannah (03:18):
Let's go but it's totally great.
Jonathan (03:20):
I love it.
Courtney (03:23):
You give her a little bit of music, and this is what
happens.
Jonathan (03:26):
So in the spring we host our annual benefit and I
was on the benefit committee andwe host it at a private club in
the Back Bay and it changesevery year.
I can't mention the name of theclub this year because it was
part of our contract Not tomention the name of the club.
Really, yes, we actually got inquite a bit of trouble because
(03:46):
we had a little bit of like post, pr stuff, like thank you for
coming to the benefit at X club.
And they actually reached out tous and said you have to take
that down.
Courtney (03:56):
So I mean something just has to be a secret.
Jonathan (04:00):
Old money has old rules.
Courtney (04:02):
I respect most rules.
Jonathan (04:04):
But like this club, you know, we took over a series
of reception rooms in theirballroom.
It was really lovely.
We had cocktails, heavy horsd'oeuvres, jazz music.
Hannah (04:16):
The outfits people come up with are fantastic.
Jonathan (04:19):
The theme was Victorian masquerade, so
everybody wore masks.
When I was in Venice I boughtsome masks.
My boyfriend did too.
Hannah (04:25):
You made your own mask.
Jonathan (04:26):
I made my own mask and so did my boyfriend, but we
also bought masks in Venice andwe wore them throughout the
evening.
It was a lot of fun.
Hannah (04:32):
Can you explain your mask?
Because what he did was, when Ifound out that he made it, I
was like what?
Jonathan (04:39):
So when we were in Venice we did buy masks.
My boyfriend bought one thatwas like it almost looked almost
like a bishop's mitre and hadlike musical notes all over it.
It was really cool.
And then I bought one that wasa gilded version of a plague
doctor's mask with a reallylarge nose.
Courtney (04:57):
I love a plague doctor .
Jonathan (04:59):
And we were like we can't eat hors d'oeuvres or talk
to people in these enormousmasks, so we wore some in the
beginning and then we said weneed alternatives.
So we had these like very basic, just eye masks, and what I did
was I actually did molding ofall these different like
ornamental curls and grapes,vines and things like that and
(05:23):
leaves grapes, vines and thingslike that and leaves Because in
the front hall of the museumthere's this really amazing
wallpaper that came from Japanand it's modeled after leather
wall coverings.
And it looks like grapes andpomegranates, gilded, and it
goes all over the walls.
It's really an extraordinarywallpaper and it was put up
about 1890.
(05:44):
So I created the mask toreflect that.
So it's gilded fruit and vinesand leaves all over this mask.
Hannah (05:53):
So I believe that my brother is very talented when it
comes to artistic things, butwhen he sent us a picture and
was like, oh, I made this, I'mlike you did, like really.
Courtney (06:07):
You beat me to it because I was just about to say
you have pictures of the massthat you're willing to share
because a lot of times thewanders ask for pictures of the
things that we talk about, so Itry to either post them to a
story or post them to ourinstagram are you?
Hannah (06:16):
okay with that.
I totally have pictures.
Courtney (06:17):
Perfect, I will message you for them, because I
think that that would goperfectly, because an etsy
account will probably pay likeat least 50 to 75 dollars for
that.
I was just telling him abouthis creation earlier today that
people on etsy would pay for it.
You just need more time.
Jonathan (06:30):
One of the things that we wanted to do during this.
You know, theme of victorianmasquerade was uh, actually have
two, um, tarot readers.
So it was my job as part of thecommittee to be able to, like,
scope out tarot readers.
And now there's.
You know, two ways to do that.
One is there are partycompanies that have tarot
readers who are just there forfun.
They're there to read yourtarot cards and make sure you
(06:53):
have a really good time, andthey're just entertainers.
They're not really there toread, they're there to entertain
you.
And I said, well, if we'regoing to do this and we're going
, to do this with some fidelity.
Well, if we're going to do this,and we're going to do this with
some fidelity, I want to dothis authentically.
So I talked to a variety ofdifferent tea houses, as we call
them up, near, you know, uphere in new england, um, and we
settled on one, regina russell'stea room, which is a really old
(07:16):
tea room out of the south shore.
Uh came highly reviewed, umworked with some lovely people
there and they sent two tarotcard readers.
So I was one of the firstpeople to sit down with one of
the tarot card readers.
Not only did he read my tarotcards, but he also was a medium
and he said things that I camewith a little bit of
(07:38):
apprehension.
I enjoy having my tarot cardread, but I was not expecting
the mediumship part and he toldme all sorts of things, things
that other people would not know.
But the most exciting thing, Ithought, and kind of the
scariest thing, was that he saidthere's an older gentleman
standing behind you who says hewants you to know he's here and
(08:00):
his name is Richard.
Do you know who that might be?
Well, I don't know anyone namedRichard.
There's no grandfather namedRichard, there's no uncle, no
one who's deceased whose name isRichard and within a minute it
came to me the last generationwho owned the Gibson House
Museum, whose benefit this wasfor.
His name was Charles HammondGibson Jr and he was a gay man
(08:24):
who lived quite openly until hedied in the 1950s, and I often
say he was my first boyfriend,you know he.
Hannah (08:33):
Because of all the work you did, all the work I did
there.
Jonathan (08:35):
All the evenings I spent there alone.
Because he was a tour guide andeverything too, was a poet, he
was a writer, he wrote fiction,he wrote biography you could
just summon him right lecturedand you know, there's, uh,
several portraits of him in thehouse and we just had this
wonderful up into his grave.
We had this wonderful kinship.
So I was like, oh, he's myfirst boyfriend.
(08:55):
Um, his pen name was RichardSudbury and most people would be
like, oh, that's kind of astretch, right?
Oh there's Richard.
And of course there's Richard.
I love his pen name so much.
It's my Wi-Fi password, it's mypassword to get my 401k account
in different ways.
Courtney (09:15):
I was going to say it's not just hashtag.
Richard Sudbury.
To clarify for anybody whoknows him you will not get in
with those pieces of information.
Hannah (09:22):
No, there's a lot more that goes with it.
Jonathan (09:23):
Social security number is but then it came to me I was
like oh, of course, why If hecame through?
And the medium was like oh,charles, Hamming Gibson's here.
Courtney (09:34):
I'd be like, yeah, you researched what museum you were
doing the benefit for Becauseyou don't relate to him as that,
you relate to him as Richardunder his pen name, because that
was his pen name, right.
Jonathan (09:43):
And I was like, oh, he's letting me know he's here,
and it freaked me out.
It was so powerful, I wasspeechless and I was like, yes,
I know exactly who that is.
So it was a wonderfulexperience.
Well, of course, I mean he wasknown for mixing gin in his
third floor bathroom duringProhibition.
(10:03):
He would have cocktails, butwhile he in the maybe the 20s,
through the 50s, he had alreadydecided that his family home in
Back Bay, boston, would be amuseum, so he would rope off
rooms of the house when he wouldhave cocktail parties and so he
would make everyone sit on thegrand staircase because he was
like you can't sit on any of thefurniture, so, of course, why
(10:26):
wouldn't he be at a party thatwas in benefit?
Courtney (10:28):
of the house that he left behind that he loved so
much, right so?
Jonathan (10:31):
of course, like we made a great party and a great
private club in back bay, whywouldn't he be there?
Courtney (10:36):
right, and why wouldn't?
Jonathan (10:37):
he speak up and be like hey, we've communed
multiple times, but now we havesomebody to say, hey, it's
richard and he's here and I waslike oh, charlie's here that is
so cool it freaked me out and itwas wonderful it was a good
freak yeah, I can't wait.
Um, I'm gonna go see him againthis fall.
That particular medium, becausehe knew so many things he was.
He read jewelry.
(11:00):
He was supposed to spend like10 minutes with me reading my
tarot cards.
We spent like a half hour.
He read jewelry.
He read um a jewelry you werewearing yeah, because some
people have the gift of readingjewelry.
They can see like, oh, this is,this is from a certain person.
This means something inparticular.
Hannah (11:19):
I guess it's like there are certain people that are
really good with like hauntedobjects.
Yeah that's true.
Courtney (11:25):
They know about certain things, about objects,
where they came from, whatpossibly could be in things, so
that makes sense that someoneelse could do that, because it
holds energy and that'sinteresting and that's
interesting, that makes me verycurious about and I know I'm not
a skeptic, but I know a lot ofpeople who maybe are listening
or maybe who just think aboutthis kind of thing in general
(11:46):
are skeptics.
I would be interested to bringa piece of jewelry that I very
much knew the whole history toto somebody to then just sit
there and not give anyinformation and see how accurate
it was.
Like I have my grandmother'sengagement ring that she wore
her entire life and it waspurchased and made just for her.
Hannah (12:01):
So it'd be interesting to see.
Well, maybe we should bringthat on our trip next weekend
and see if we can find someone.
Courtney (12:07):
The idea of bringing that piece of jewelry anywhere
makes me so nervous.
I'm one of those people wholike gets something fancy and
then I get so nervous about itthat I lock it away someplace
you don't ever want to wear itabsolutely, and that's so sad,
because it's like this piece ofjewelry was given to you to wear
, to embrace yeah but I'm sonervous something bad will
happen to it.
Maybe if I get like a reallysturdy chain and I can wear it,
(12:29):
I think around my neck.
Hannah (12:30):
Really interesting if we could find someone next weekend
on our trip to find someonethat might be able to totally
spook me out.
Courtney (12:38):
I know I've told my mom went to a medium and I
didn't even know she believed inthat kind of stuff and the
thing the medium was like.
I think my mom was disappointed.
The medium was very focused onme instead of her and the things
that this medium said my momdidn't even know about my
apartment.
They were describing the fulllayout of my apartment to my mom
and this is the apartment shehad before this one, correct?
(13:00):
yeah, yeah, my mom had been inmy apartment exactly one time
and this medium was telling her,like your daughter is trying to
tell you something, you're notlistening to her.
She keeps telling you that shecan't sleep.
It's not about sleep, you'renot listening to her.
Her bed needs to move from thelocation that it's in her bed.
She cannot sleep there.
My mom's like what are youtalking about?
What do you mean the locationher bed is in?
And she's like why is her bedacross the front door of her
(13:22):
apartment?
And I lived in a very oldbuilding and so the front door
was non-functional, totallyillegal in the state of
massachusetts.
But I'll go past that so my bedI had put I mean I was in my
early 20s, I had put up likesome kind of wall hanging and I
just put my bed there becausethere was a whole fireplace and
steam heating unit and it was astudio so there was really no
place to put your furniture ifyou didn't put it directly in
(13:43):
front of the store.
And this woman was adamant.
She was like if she does notmove that bed, she will not
sleep, it will not be good.
She needs to move the bed.
And my mom calls me she's likethis medium is cracked.
She seems to think that youwould put your bed in front of a
door.
And I'm like, holy shit, my bedis in front of a door.
And I'm like, holy shit, my bedis in front of my door.
Wow, and who would ever likethat's such a random thing.
Jonathan (14:01):
That's not something you can like infer.
No, yeah.
Courtney (14:04):
And at that point in time, my mom and I didn't talk
all the time, we didn't have agood relationship, and so I had
experienced things within myhome that I hadn't shared with
her, and the medium explainedalmost all of them down to a T
(14:25):
and my mom was like well, Idon't know about any of that.
And so when my mom called me,she was like, oh my god, that's
exactly what the medium saidhappened to you and I didn't
know any of it.
Wow, so I've been dying to see amedium, but I haven't done it.
Hannah (14:30):
Oh, I'm worried the medium's trip.
We maybe we should.
I mean, what better place towhere we're going right?
Jonathan (14:35):
definitely look into who you're going to before.
Yes, 100.
Courtney (14:38):
Yes, 100%.
It's just like anything.
There's going to be people whosay they can do something and I
feel like certain areas are likehotspots for that kind of thing
.
Where we're going, definitelyone of those hotspots.
Jonathan (14:48):
And again you have some people who are just there
for entertainment and like it'snot a problem, but you have
people there who actually have agift.
Hannah (14:55):
So where we're going in america, we went to a shop
together, right, and they weretaking readings in the back room
.
But just looking at the shopI'm like, oh, this looks like
made in china threw up in hereand it's not very legit when we
went.
Jonathan (15:11):
It was very commercial , very um, and I was very
disappointed, but I think wehave a few other options up
there.
Hannah (15:19):
Well, if you know of one , please let us know.
Drag us along.
Jonathan (15:23):
Like I said, you guys won't be in that area, but South
Shore does have some greatstops.
Courtney (15:32):
We could be in that area though Make an appointment.
Jonathan (15:35):
I only live Virginia.
Courtney (15:36):
Russell's.
Jonathan (15:36):
Tea Room in Quincy Mass.
He was fantastic.
Courtney (15:40):
I think it would be interesting, too, to go to
somebody who you already had anexperience with, just because.
I feel like oftentimes there'sso many people who read tarot or
so many people who are mediumsand do mediumship that you're
talking about a differentexperience, because the person
who did it was very different.
Hannah (15:55):
Yeah.
Courtney (15:56):
I know one of the girls that I'm friends with.
She also loves to have tarotread, so she has like a spot I
think it's in Northampton thatshe loves to go to and she's
like that's where I'll go.
Like I don't know why she'slike I just I relate to this
person, I connect with thisperson.
That's where I'll friends whotell me they can read tarot, but
(16:22):
like, probably can't.
No, I haven't had my tarot readeither, but maybe I'm afraid
I'm like what's it gonna say?
Hannah (16:24):
I know right, is it gonna be something bad?
Which it could be?
Courtney (16:27):
I mean honestly I feel like that was good read it.
And then a lot of times peopleinternalize, based off of what
they know, onto the cards.
Yeah, that's the way that Ikind of interpretation.
Hannah (16:37):
I feel like also there's definitely interpretation that
you have to do.
Jonathan (16:42):
Um yeah, with tarot cards.
Hannah (16:44):
With the Bible too, like just kind of going back to our
childhood, like there'sinterpretation with it, with
everything.
Courtney (16:50):
With everything, with everything in life, it comes
down to experiences.
Hannah (16:52):
You can't take things down to like oh, this is the
death card, you're gonna die.
Like that's not.
Jonathan (16:57):
Yeah, no, it doesn't work that way.
Courtney (16:58):
Yeah, it's the death of something.
That's kind of the deck upsidedown, and then it doesn't
necessarily mean the opposite ofliterally whatever it is.
It could mean growth in adifferent direction instead of
(17:24):
death or something like that.
So today, to end our episode,we're going to try something a
little bit different.
We've been doing the cards fora long time and, while we feel
like that's still very important, we kind of wanted to leave off
on more of a positive and happynote.
So Hannah has been doing thischallenge throughout the summer
while she's taking her time off,and she is reviewing and
watching every horror movie inthis pack that she bought.
(17:46):
So we're going to do a randomHannah reviewed of a horror
movie at the end of each of ourepisodes.
If you guys hate it, write in,let us know.
If you love it, write in, letus know.
If you have feedback aboutHannah's review or the movie in
general, or one that you wanther to review, let us know.
Hannah (18:02):
So I have been going a little outside the pack.
I will say, uh-oh, she alreadybroke it, but the horror movie
pack that you can scratch offhas been so much fun.
I actually did it with Robyesterday and I said Rob, pick a
card, whatever calls to you,and we ended up watching the
absolute classic of the Soundsof the Lambs, which was
phenomenal.
But the movie I want to talkabout today is called the Witch.
(18:25):
Okay, and it's by Robert Eggers.
As a director, he's the sameguy that just did Nosferatu that
just came out last year.
That, of course, courtney camewith me.
So the Witch actually has ahuge basis in Salem and then the
family gets shunned and theyhave to go find their own way in
the land of Massachusetts.
The main actress is AnyaTaylor-Joy, which I think a lot
(18:47):
of people saw in Queen's Gambit.
She's a phenomenal actress, butshe was actually young during
this movie.
So it's about her kind offinding her way and the way the
Puritans were with religion andshe told everyone she was a
witch, but she wasn't.
But then it's spooky, it'scrazy.
They're afraid of the woodsbecause something lives there.
(19:09):
It's very dark and dreary andthere's no hope and it's just
how you probably would picturePuritan life back in the day,
where there just was nohappiness in anything you did.
All it was was shame and we'reall going to die.
We're all sinners and regret,and so it's phenomenal.
(19:30):
I actually made my mom watch it.
She didn't like it as much asnosferatu, which was fine, but I
absolutely loved this movie.
I thought the acting wasphenomenal.
The storyline was phenomenal.
I highly recommend.
I actually give it five out offive stars that's awesome.
Courtney (19:45):
what year did that one come out?
If you don't mind me askingGood question.
Hannah (19:48):
I have that right here.
It came out in 2015.
Courtney (19:51):
Okay, so it's not a terribly old film.
I know some people will askthat about films where they
really can't get into, like theold school horror, and I know
Hannah and I have hadconversations.
Sometimes I'm here while she'swatching her movie.
Hannah (20:02):
I'm working diligently, or Courtney.
Courtney (20:05):
But sometimes I know for myself I have a harder time
getting into the older horrormovies just because I'm like eye
roll, yeah, okay.
Hannah (20:12):
I think Robert Eggers is a little bit like Tim Burton,
where he kind of picks theseactors and actresses that they
really like.
So the father that's in thisfilm is Ralph Innocent.
He also was in Nosferatu, so Ithink he's he likes certain
actors and actresses, kind oflike Tim Burton, where he loves
(20:32):
Johnny Depp and now he's likingJenna Ortega and kind of having
these people act and act and actfor him.
But phenomenal.
I absolutely loved it.
Courtney (20:42):
You said five out of five was your final rating five
out of five and on a creepyscale.
I want to try to do a creepyscale as we're getting closer to
halloween, five being the verymost creepy you've ever seen,
one being like.
I've seen a lot better creepy.
What does it score on thecreepiness scale?
Hannah (20:57):
so I find that's a very hard question, only because like
are we looking for?
Like a gory, that's why I'masking it.
Courtney (21:03):
Why would I ask you a simple question?
Why would I ask you a simplequestion?
Why would I ask you a simplequestion?
Hannah (21:08):
If religious trauma and the occult scares you, I would
definitely give it a three outof five.
Okay, on the gore scale,probably only one out of five.
Courtney (21:20):
I think that I'm glad you brought that up, because
that's an important element too.
There are some people whoreally love scary and spooky,
yes, but they absolutely can'tdo the gore.
So I think we should probablydo a gore rating too moving
forward, I agree.
So yeah, there's not a lot ofgore and any kind of trigger
warnings, we'll let you guysknow too.
Hannah (21:34):
As always, we try to be really mindful about everybody's
mental health and making surethat you guys all know if
there's going to be somethingthat could be potentially
triggering 100% and the factgoing to be very particular
about my readings that I'mgiving these because I do want
to tell you guys, like what itis about the film I liked, what
I didn't like about it, whattrigger warnings are important,
because I do know how I find outabout these films, like people
(21:57):
tell me trigger stuff beforehand, um, but this is definitely a
religious trauma type and, um,actually in terms of like a
abuse, like I wouldn't saythere's anything like that, just
a lot of religious trauma andthe occult.
Courtney (22:12):
So if you don't like that, don't watch it and you do
post all of these reviews onyour bookstagram as well,
correct I've?
Been trying to be so good aboutthat.
Yes, it's hannah's dot bookcaseon instagram if you want to see
the books she's reading or ifyou want to see kind of a sneak
peek about the different moviesthat she's watching.
Hannah (22:26):
I know I've been going away from books lately and doing
horror films, but it's justkind of been my niche lately
that I've been enjoying.
You're mixing it up, nothingwrong with that.
Courtney (22:33):
Mixing it up.
Thank you, thanks, guys, we'llsee you guys, next time Bye,
wanderers.
Jonathan (22:39):
Bye.
Hannah (22:40):
Bye.
Thanks for listening today.
W Hosted by me Hannah andco-hosted by me Courtney, and
it's produced by Rob Fitzpatrick.
Music by Sasha N.
If you enjoyed today's episode,don't forget to leave a rating
and review and be sure to followon all socials.
You can find the links down inthe show notes.
If you're looking for somereally cozy t-shirts or hoodies,
(23:00):
head over to the merch store.
Thank you for being a part ofthe Wicked Wanderings community.
We appreciate every one of you.
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