August 20, 2025 • 50 mins
Host Hannah welcomes her brother Jonathan to explore strange historical tales from a book called "Strange History" while regular co-host Courtney is away. The siblings dive into bizarre historical facts, personal anecdotes, and fascinating stories that range from the morbid to the amusing.
• The post-mortem journey of Eva "Evita" Perón, whose mummified body was displayed, hidden, buried in Milan, and eventually kept at her husband's dining table for two years
• Jonathan's childhood fascination with Egyptian mummification and the historical significance of ancient Egypt's timeline
• The "Wicked Bible" of 1631 that accidentally instructed readers to "commit adultery" due to a missing word
• Noah Webster's attempt to remove "smut" from the Bible by replacing words like "whore" and "teat" with milder alternatives
• The accidental discovery of phosphorus by alchemist Hennig Brand who was experimenting with buckets of urine
• The tragic and fascinating story of Grey Gardens and the complex mother-daughter relationship between "Big Edie" and "Little Edie" Beale
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Wicked Wanderings is hosted by Hannah & Courtney and it's produced by Rob Fitzpatrick. Music by Sascha Ende.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jonathan (00:00):
This cocktail's fab.
I'm so happy.
I'm so happy for you Are wegoing to have any left for the
beach?
Oh, what a fucking bitch.
Yes, we'll have some for thebeach, okay.
Hannah (00:27):
Hi, I'm Hannah and I'm Courtney.
Join us as we delve into truecrime, paranormal encounters and
all things spooky.
Grab your flashlight and getready to wander into the
darkness with us.
This is Wicked Wanderings.
(00:59):
Hello Wanderers, Welcome backto another episode of Wicked
Wanderings.
Jonathan (01:02):
Hello, hello.
Hannah (01:03):
So our fabulous co-host, courtney, is not available
today, so I asked my dearbrother Jonathan to come in and
help me record something for youguys.
We have something a littledifferent for you.
There's been this book calledStrange History.
John, can you tell me who theauthor is?
Jonathan (01:20):
Strange History, Mysterious artifacts, macabre
legends, bone-headed blundersand Mind-Blowing Facts is by.
Oh, her name isn't actually onthe cover.
Hannah (01:34):
Hold on a moment by.
I know.
Jonathan (01:37):
By the Bathroom Raiders Institute, so it's
definitely a conglomerate.
Hannah (01:47):
So Courtney had found it I, I think, at a Savers long
ago and we were like, oh, thiswould be perfect.
And me and Courtney were like,wow, we don't know enough about
shit in here, so we left it tothe wayside.
But my brother, who is arenowned scholar of many things,
he would be perfect for this.
So he's found a couple thingshe wants to talk about and so we
can discuss.
(02:07):
And, yet again, please likesocial medias tiktok, instagram,
facebook.
Please let us know what youthink.
We, we want to know if you knowanything about these, if you
have any thoughts or links orany pictures, whatever maybe not
some pictures for some things,because there's some stuff about
concubines, we don't need toknow about that, but if you,
have any thoughts, please let usknow.
Jonathan (02:30):
So there was one thing in particular that really
caught my eye, and the title ofthe section is called the Evita
Mummy.
It immediately caused my eyebecause I don't know if you
remember, you probably rememberwhen I was a kid and still
obsessed with ancient Egypt.
Hannah (02:47):
Obsessed.
He's like eight years old.
He's like, yeah, and then thebrains come to the nose and I'm
like, oh my God, it was eighto'clock dinner time.
Like what's going on?
Jonathan (02:55):
I mean just I remember when we watched the Reading
Rainbow and they went throughMummy's Made in Egypt.
The book was Mummy's MaidenEgypt and it said it went
through the whole mummificationprocess and I was obsessed.
(03:16):
I would read that book at avery young age.
Obsessed At the breakfast tableand I remember you being like
absolutely disgusted.
But then what did I buy?
I mean, recently she bought herown copy of a canopic jar,
which is exactly where they,during the mummification process
, when they take out theinternal organs, they put them
(03:37):
into these individual jars, andmy sister bought herself a copy
of a canopic jar with anubis thejackal god on top we love
anubis.
Hannah (03:47):
Anubis is the shizman is he's pretty great right he is.
He is the god of the underworldin a lot of ways, correct?
Jonathan (03:54):
that's my understanding.
Hannah (03:55):
Yeah, yeah, I mean like it's so cool, like they kept
these parts of people, theirorgans, or so they could have
them in the afterlife.
Jonathan (04:02):
I mean they were considered sacred.
Hannah (04:04):
Yeah, I mean, it's fucking cool right now, all
right, so guys just just pictureit.
Right, we're trying to eat ouroatmeal over breakfast and my
little brother is talking aboutorgans.
I haven't even gone throughpuberty yet, right, having a
period.
I'm like, what are you talkingabout?
Jonathan (04:27):
Like so I was a little too graphic over uh cream of
wheat, but didn't you also writeyour?
Hannah (04:29):
own story about a young pharaoh.
Oh gosh, I was like seven oreight.
Yeah, do you still?
Jonathan (04:30):
have it.
I actually do.
Mom saved it for me I'm so gladshe did.
Hannah (04:34):
Yeah, and it was about.
Jonathan (04:35):
The story was about a uh, young boy who was seven or
eight.
I was that age and his father,the pharaoh, died and it was
part of I went through the right, about what you know right.
I wrote in cursive, um, andactually it was interesting
because it aligned really wellwith when my parents got
divorced, um, and our therapistsaid it was actually very
(04:58):
healthy for me.
So I talked about the wholeprocess of the father had died
or left and it was the wholeprocess of what happened
afterwards his death, where hewas buried, the process it went
through and then the ending withthe you know closing of the
tomb and it was a really healthyyou know healthy process for me
(05:21):
to be able to be able to, todigest what was going on around
me I would love to read thatstory again oh it's.
It's not exactly a bestseller.
I illustrated it myself in pen,but uh, since then I have been
(05:41):
entranced by egypt.
Um was supposed to go to Egypton a three-week cruise down the
Nile on my 30th birthday, butunfortunately that aligned with
COVID so we've pushed that offto my 40th.
So hopefully I'll be able tocruise down the Nile in a couple
of years.
Hannah (05:59):
I think a lot of us understand the fuck you COVID of
your 30s Exactly.
Jonathan (06:03):
My 30th birthday right during covid but have been
obsessed with ancient egypt forages, so when I saw this article
that said the evita mummy, Iwas absolutely entranced, and
I'm just going to uh give you asynopsis because it's relatively
long, but most of us know whoevita peron was.
Hannah (06:23):
No, and how she was a you don't no.
Jonathan (06:27):
Okay, cool.
So maybe I'll do a little bitof the introduction and then
I'll give you a synopsis.
So it said.
Former actress Eva Evita Perónbecame a crusader for the poor
in 1940s Argentina.
Hannah (06:39):
Okay.
Jonathan (06:41):
Many people remember Don't Cry For Me, argentina.
Many people remember Don't Cryfor Me, argentina.
Evita was played by Madonna andit was also played by Patti
LuPone in different Broadwayshows.
She was a really extraordinarypolitical figure in Argentina in
the 40s.
Hannah (07:02):
Okay.
Jonathan (07:04):
Her husband, juan, was the president of the country
from 1948 to 1954.
She died from cancer in 1952 atonly the age of 33.
Hannah (07:13):
So really a tragic death for such an extraordinary,
pivotal figure in South America,juan.
Jonathan (07:19):
her husband had her mummified and put on public
display, which is something Inever heard of.
Hannah (07:26):
Is that normal for that?
Jonathan (07:28):
That is very unusual.
Okay, so we have to rememberthat, the way the ancient
Egyptians mummified their dead,no one to this date has ever
been able to replicate it, notin the same way.
So we do have mummies in otherparts of the world, but more
often than not they're naturalmummies.
So they will be a body that'sleft in the elements and it just
(07:53):
happens to be very dry and arid, and the body will mummify.
Hannah (07:58):
Or like cold, cold climates where it's just like,
or extra cold where?
Jonathan (08:01):
they basically freeze into a mummy.
Hannah (08:03):
So I feel like for the Egyptians and correct me if you
know if I'm wrong or right butit was really for the elite that
they were mummified in such away where they were able to be
so crystallized, I guess in acertain way Preserved yeah.
Jonathan (08:19):
Because this wasn't for the common folk, common folk
, everyone in so with theegyptian idea of the dead, and
we have to remember that theegyptian civilization was over a
period of a few thousand years.
So when we think about the factthat the united states has
really only existed for 250 ishyears and we still don't have it
(08:40):
right, but anyways, we stilldon't have it right.
um to anyway, we still don'thave it right To mindfuck you.
Ramses II, one of the mostimportant pharaohs from what we
consider ancient Egypt, wouldhave considered the pyramids.
Ancient Ramses II, as a pharaohof Egypt, had archaeologists
excavating near the pyramidsbecause they were as far away
(09:04):
from him as we are from him oh,good lord, like you guys mind
blown.
Hannah (09:09):
So wait, was he the young, young, young one there
was?
Jonathan (09:12):
he was a younger pharaoh, but he wasn't like
chudin common.
Chudin common was like 12 whenhe died uh, but ram is really
part of the golden age ofancient egypt.
But he would have consideredthe pyramids old.
He would have considered he hadarchaeologists excavating about
the ancient pharaohs.
Hannah (09:32):
But what I kind of love also about the Egyptians is that
they didn't mind women in power.
Right, because we think aboutCleopatra, right.
Jonathan (09:40):
Well, that's a really good point.
I mean Cleopatra, we think ofher as kind of the part of the
denouement, the ending of thegreat.
Egyptian period when the Romanstook over and Cleopatra was
part of a Greek family.
She wasn't Egyptian.
No, I mean, she consideredherself Egyptian.
Hannah (10:00):
Yeah.
Jonathan (10:00):
But she was technically foreign as part of
that family.
I'm trying to remember the nameof her family name, but she
considered herself very Egyptianbut she was technically foreign
as part of that family I'mtrying to remember the name of
her family name but sheconsidered herself very egyptian
but she was actually foreign.
I want to say that she wasgreek, but I will double check
fascinating.
Hannah (10:14):
But I just think some things that cultures back in the
day, like when you think aboutmen's fashion and how it's
evolved over the years and youthink about french men, how they
were the ones that wore heelsand tights and flowing hair.
Jonathan (10:27):
Well, especially when we think of Louis XIV to the
16th, like men would never dothat and you look back in
history.
Hannah (10:32):
that was what men did.
Jonathan (10:34):
Well, it was peacocking.
Hannah (10:39):
Right.
People are so ignorant to howhistory has developed and how
being like the socialized way ofliving has just the people are
stupid.
Honestly, that's the only thingI can think of.
Jonathan (10:54):
So the other thing I think of is, when you're talking
about women in Egypt, I thinkof Hatshepsut, which was many,
many, many generations beforeCleopatra and we were talking
about, I would consider, ahedgehog set pre-Golden Age, but
she really created herself inthe vision of a man, so she was
(11:16):
a woman intrinsically, but allof her outward expressions she's
shown in carvings and sculpturewith the ceremonial beard of a
man.
So the idea that she had beenborn female was less of an issue
and it was more important thatshe established herself in the
(11:36):
proper visage of a male pharaoh.
Hannah (11:40):
So did that have to do with her being like, socialized
as a male figure, or did it haveto do with her sexuality?
Jonathan (11:48):
I don't think it had anything to do with either.
I think it was more of how do I, as a born woman, hold on to
power when my husband has died?
And she held on to power.
He was the pharaoh and she heldon to power and when the next
generation came up, theybasically removed her from all
(12:10):
of her monuments and I don'twant to say that that is
intrinsically anti-women.
Most pharaohs removed theirpredecessors from their
monuments.
In ancient Egypt, the idea wasthat even if your predecessor
created a temple, you might havesomebody go out and rechip
their name for your name or tryand move things around so that
(12:34):
it would be to yourglorification rather than your
predecessor.
So we can't say it's anti-womenthat they removed her from
monuments.
But there was definitelysomething about her that said
I'm in power, so I want topresent myself in the same way
that every other pharaoh hasdone, in a very masculine form.
Hannah (12:53):
Fascinating.
Sorry I've derailed you fromyour original discussion.
Jonathan (12:58):
No, I could honestly talk about ancient Egypt forever
.
Hannah (13:01):
I mean, it is an absolute passion of mine I think
agent egypt itself is is spookyand it talks about death and
and being okay with death.
I think that's something thatyou know, john me and you talked
about a lot about being okaywith our own death right.
Death is coming for us all.
It's not something we canescape.
(13:21):
There's not not some fountain ofyouth, even though there's so
many lore about a fountain ofyouth but it comes to us all and
I think something with theEgyptians that they've realized
is like death is coming to me, Ineed to prepare for it in
whatever way I feel is going tohappen in the afterlife and I
think this goes from people thatare atheists, other people to
(13:41):
have a super religious ceremony,they need to do Like it's
coming to us all and whatever wefind comfort in is okay.
So I think the Egyptiansactually play a big role in
haunted horror lore honestly.
So this has been veryfascinating.
Jonathan (13:58):
I absolutely agree with you and, as you said, this
is a conversation that we've hadpretty frequently especially
recently.
Hannah (14:05):
I agree with that.
Jonathan (14:06):
I mean probably recently, because with my
divorce, you know almost twoyears ago now.
Hannah (14:14):
Sorry.
Jonathan (14:15):
I've had to.
I mean, it's not a lot to me, Idon't really care.
Hey Back in the market.
If you want a spooky bitchwho's also a homosexual, I'm
here, um, even though I have afabulous boyfriend, but anyway,
um always looking for friends umthe idea.
(14:38):
I mean I've had to go andreconsider all of my
arrangements.
So you know, simple things allthe way to.
I mean, with my ex-husband Ihad a particular plot that was,
you know, only for certainpeople, and we had a will set up
.
You know, the estate wasdivided among certain people and
(15:01):
certain nieces and nephews andcertain siblings.
Certain objects went to certainpeople and certain nieces and
nephews and certain siblings.
Certain objects went to certainpeople and everything seemed
really organized.
But then when you divorce,everything is thrown back up in
the air.
So as I go through things, Italk to you and I talk to our
brother and I go and say I wantthis done and this needs to be
changed.
You have to reconsider your owndemise.
(15:25):
So it makes me think of theancient egyptians.
But very quickly to go back toavida yes, avida, sorry, avida
we're now, in the 1940s excuseme, 1952 avida peron is dead,
age 33, far too young for suchan extraordinary political
figure.
Her husband, juan uh, had hermummified and put on public
(15:46):
display in argentina, which Ihad never heard of.
Uh, the procedure, which tookabout a year, cost him about a
hundred thousand dollars in1950s, money which is
extraordinary.
I wonder where he got thatmoney.
Um, uh, as many of us know whofollow politics, during that
period of time Juan fell frompower as president of Argentina
(16:08):
while his wife, evita, was stilllying in state, oh dear.
And he went into exile in Spain.
And if you have to go intoexile anywhere, I just adore
Spain.
Hannah (16:18):
Of all the places.
That's a good one.
Sign me up.
Jonathan (16:21):
But he couldn't arrange for burial before he was
exiled to Spain.
So where did Evita go?
Evita was put into storage likea piece of furniture in.
Buenos Aires, and then shedisappeared from public record.
It turned out thatanti-peronists, people who were
against Evita and her husbandJuan, making sure the body was
(16:45):
never again used as a pro-Paronpolitical symbol, had stolen the
coffin, sealed it in a packingcrate and buried it in a Milan
cemetery.
Hannah (16:55):
Oh my God, Wait, wait, wait.
How did she live in Milan?
She traveled.
That's my point.
Jonathan (17:00):
I don't there's no, I need like a like a sub thing.
Wait a minute.
You wouldn't have just thrownher into some other South
American country.
They put her in Italy.
This girl's traveling morewidely than she ever did in life
.
In 1971, we're talking almost20 years later a sympathetic
Spanish officer told her husband, juan, who's still living,
(17:21):
where his wife was buried.
Hannah (17:28):
Juan Peron had her exhumed from milan and brought
her to spain.
Jonathan (17:30):
Okay, when peron juan peron pried open the coffin, his
wife was so proud wellpreserved from the mummification
that he cried out, quote she isnot dead, she is only sleeping
oh good lord, okay um.
Hannah (17:42):
What was Peron, on?
Jonathan (17:50):
I don't know, maybe it's real wine.
It's pretty good.
Rather than bury his belovedEvita again, peron kept her
around the house.
I mean, this is a little bit Alittle too Irish for me.
I mean not even Irish.
It's like girl she's dead.
Hannah (18:03):
Girl dead, Girl.
Jonathan (18:03):
She's dead, he and his third wife Isabel propped her
up in the dining room and ateover the dining room table with
her every evening.
Hannah (18:12):
I'm sorry, the third wife was like okay, first of all
third wife, but secondly thewife was okay with just like
having her there.
Jonathan (18:20):
I don't know, this is a synopsis, so I mean, maybe she
didn't do the full propping up,but even when they entertained
guests, there was, you know, you, me and Evita.
The arrangement lasted until1973.
So we're only talking about twoyears of Evita silent at the
dining room table when JuanPerón returned to power in
(18:41):
Argentina and left his belovedmummy in Spain.
Hannah (18:45):
Oh wait, I'm sorry, he just left her there, yeah.
Jonathan (18:48):
Well, it's expensive to move.
Later, evita was brought acrossthe Atlantic and finally buried
in Argentina.
Hannah (18:55):
Oh, my God, this poor woman.
Jonathan (18:58):
I know she's pretty fucking worn out.
Oh my Lord.
Hannah (19:00):
My turn.
I need to find something that'scrazy.
Jonathan (19:03):
Yes, you're welcome to Okay my turn.
Hannah (19:05):
Holy cow, I gotta process this.
Jonathan (19:09):
What Isn't that extraordinary?
I mean, it mixes so manydifferent things.
I adore spain, I adore mummiesand, uh, evita poron, but I
don't think that was part of thebroadway musical oh my god,
that poor woman, oh my god.
Hannah (19:26):
I'm just gonna start saying oh my god, for like the
next like hour, because I nowremind me when did franco fall
from power in spain?
Jonathan (19:33):
1954, oh, it looks like.
Uh, franco died in 1975, sothat's actually during the
francoist years, which isactually a really interesting
time to have your mummified wifeat your dining room table.
Hannah (19:44):
Oh, my lord, all right.
Jonathan (19:46):
Well, I found something called next of skin as
long as it's not cannibalism orskinning, I'm okay.
Daddy, can't do it okay, thenmaybe not his stomach gets upset
bible stories.
Oh gosh, let's try it all right, girlfriends, let's go all
right, here we go.
Hannah (20:05):
In 1631, a london bookmaker was printing an
official edition of the Bible,but, due to a goof, one
important word was left out ofall of the printings.
Not Not was the word that wasleft out.
Jonathan (20:20):
Wait, wait Through the entire Bible, yep.
Hannah (20:22):
The section it was missing from oh, I guess this is
what I was saying the sectionit was missing from, the Ten
Commandments.
Result was the book listed nineactual commandments along with
a sentence I read thou shaltcommit adultery.
Oh, I fucking love this itbecame.
Jonathan (20:40):
Thou shalt uh uh desire their neighbor's ass.
Hannah (20:45):
It became known as the wicked bible oh, I fucking look
who.
Jonathan (20:49):
What mischievous, little intern did that.
Hannah (20:53):
I love this.
And speaking of wicked, in 1883, noah Webster, of Webster's
dictionary fame, complained theBible was filled with smut.
Words and phrases are sooffensive, especially to females
, as to create reluctance inyoung persons to attend Bible
(21:14):
classes in schools, in whichthey are required to read
passages which cannot bereplaced without a blush End
quote.
So Webster rewrote the entireBible, removing the quote
unquote filthiest passagesentirely and cleaning up the
less offensive ones, words suchas whore, fornication and teat
Teat.
Jonathan (21:33):
I'm sorry, when fornication and teat Teat?
I'm sorry, when in the Bibledoes it say teat?
Hannah (21:37):
Gave way to mild expressions like lewd woman,
lewdness and breast Titties.
Yeah, teat Me.
And Courtney say teat all thetime.
Jonathan (21:48):
I think that's hysterical, especially when we
consider back to the episode youdid about the Salem Witch
Trials.
It was all about teats.
Hannah (21:55):
Exactly.
Jonathan (21:56):
It was all about titties.
Hannah (21:57):
Which makes sense, because in 1883, he redid it.
That makes total sense.
Jonathan (22:01):
It's so funny because he was basing that off of the
latest translation from theancient text, which would have
been the King James Bible, whichis Jacobine.
So we're still dealing with aBible that's several hundred
years after its originaltranslation.
Hannah (22:16):
But I think this proves the point.
Men were dealing with the Biblelike who the fuck said they
didn't make mistakes beforehand.
Jonathan (22:23):
I mean, we're translating after translating
after translating.
I mean I will say that as avery queer child growing up.
And, rob, if this doesn't workout, you can totally keep it in.
But I really appreciated theold King James version of Sodom
(22:44):
and Gomorrah personally as avery queer child.
Hannah (22:49):
Can I ask why, though?
Is it just because they weretalking about like men with men?
Jonathan (22:54):
Oh, yeah, I mean it was scandalous.
I mean we understand now thatthe translation was the sorry,
not the translation.
The interpretation of thatsection of the scriptures was
wrong.
Right, Correct.
We understand now that hadnothing to do with men lying
with men, right it was more, youhad a very vulnerable visitor,
(23:18):
with two visitors actually intown, the most, uh, vulnerable
people in this new in in sodomand gomorrah and you're there to
attack them and that wasconsidered beyond reproach.
That was a sin that could notbe forgiven.
You are taking the mostvulnerable people of the
(23:42):
populace, these visitors whodidn't know anyone, and you were
going to attack them and thatwas considered beyond
forgiveness.
And that can be totallyunderstood when you talk about
it like that.
But when it's men lying withmen, I mean there's also the
interpretation of the fact thatthe people of Israel had to
procreate in order to actuallyexist.
Hannah (24:04):
But that's different.
Jonathan (24:06):
Sorry, I'm on a tirade I'm going to have a cocktail,
you're fine.
Hannah (24:09):
I'm going to read the last one.
Early 20th century Ethiopianemperor menelik the second had
an unusual habit when he feltsick or uneasy, he ate a few
pages out of a bible okay, Idon't.
Jonathan (24:22):
I don't know if I might take a little tums, but he
was feeling especially sickafter suffering a stroke in 1913
so he ate the, the entire bookof Kings.
Hannah (24:33):
A few days later, the emperor died of intestinal
blockage caused by the paper.
Why, why?
Why?
Because where do we get paper?
Jonathan (24:44):
from Pulp from trees.
You're not supposed to eattrees.
Hannah (24:47):
Why.
Jonathan (24:50):
Why did he eat it or why did he have the blockage?
Hannah (24:52):
No, why did he eat it?
Why did he have the blockage?
No, why did he eat it?
Okay?
Jonathan (24:54):
but I mean, ethiopia is a whole different, uh, topic
of conversation, which is reallyinteresting because that's the
country that we think that thequeen of sheba came from.
Oh, and that's where somescholars think that the um ark
of the Tabernacle went to.
And there are actually priestsin Ethiopia who say that they
(25:21):
are in charge of the Ark of theTabernacle in Ethiopia.
Hannah (25:27):
Interesting.
Jonathan (25:29):
I mean, I don't think they eat paper.
Hannah (25:31):
Not so mellow yellow.
Ooh, ever heard of alchemy, ofcourse, it was a medieval
science and philosophy, and oneof its goals was to find a way
to turn base metals into gold ina process called transmutation.
Scientists now know that thisis impossible, but in the 1600s
(25:52):
it was a viable, potentiallylucrative form of research.
An alchemist from hamburg,germany, named hennig brand,
believed the way to create goldwas by chemically altering a
very common substance.
Do you know what it is?
oh, the core substance that theywanted to yes, a very common
substance that they wanted to.
(26:13):
Yes, a very common substancethat they wanted to use.
I don't know, straw Urine.
Jonathan (26:17):
Okay, maybe not the first place.
Maybe I'd start with adifferent metal or you know, go
the rubble stiltzkin route anddo you know, Probably be better
off going rubble stiltzkin routethe hay into gold.
But all right, we can startwith urine.
Hannah (26:31):
At the time it made sense Okay.
Jonathan (26:34):
I don't know to whom People weren't dumb.
Hannah (26:37):
A prevailing theory of the day was that, because urine
and gold were both yellow, someadvanced form of alchemy might
be able to turn one to the other, which is bullshit.
Jonathan (26:46):
Alright, I suppose they have crazies every
generation.
Hannah (26:50):
With this in mind, bran spent months collecting urine.
When he accumulated 50 bucketsof the stuff, mostly donated by
local soldiers, he put them intohis basement to age or allow
the water to evaporate out andconcentrate the urine.
One day in 1669, bran wasexperimenting with his bucket
loads of concentrated soldierpee and ended up with a vibrant
(27:11):
blue-green substance thatappeared to glow to glow, I'm
sorry, both in the light and inthe dark, but brand couldn't get
it to do anything else.
In 1675 and their germanalchemist named daniel craft
purchased brand's blue goo andmade a fortune, showing it off
to royalty and other wealthyeuropeans really craft's act was
basically magic tricks.
(27:33):
He'd light candles with thestuff, throw it into gunpowder
to make explosions and writeglowing blue green words with
dehydrated urine yeah, itwouldn't be until 100 years
later the blue green substancethat brand had discovered and
craft tried to take credit forwould be named phosphorus.
Today, phosphorus is abundantin manufacturing, commonly used
(27:54):
in products just soda,fertilizer, matches, flares and
fireworks and they don't have toget it from urine that's
extraordinary.
Jonathan (28:04):
I didn't know that.
Who knew we could all make afortune from our own urine?
Hannah (28:08):
your turn.
I can't be taught to findanything anymore.
Jonathan (28:11):
What that reminds me of is that one of my other
passions is.
Hannah (28:15):
Collecting urine everybody.
Jonathan (28:16):
Not collecting urine, trust me about it.
Flush that shit Literally.
But one of my other passions isculinary history, and one of
the things I did with my ex isthat I really wanted to go to
hampton court palace outsidelondon and they have, uh, what's
(28:37):
considered by scholars to bethe most intact tudor kitchens
okay uh, which to me is reallyinteresting.
And one of the things that Ifound really interesting was
that, during the era of henrythe eighth and we're talking
about Elizabeth- I and alsoeveryone, henry VIII, come on.
Henry VIII.
What did I say?
Henry the no, no, you saidHenry VIII.
(28:58):
Oh, I said Henry VIII, no, butI just want everyone to know.
Hannah (29:00):
Like you've seen the show the Tudors, we know about
Henry VIII decapitating some ofhis wives.
Like, trust me, like Catherinede Medici.
All that.
You guys know who he is.
Jonathan (29:11):
I'm sorry of course Catherine de Medici was French.
You mean Catherine of Aragon,right?
Hannah (29:17):
Catherine of Aragon, I'm sorry, she existed at the same
time.
Jonathan (29:21):
So I knew, I knew you were thinking.
Hannah (29:22):
I'm sorry.
I guess I just wanted to wonderis to know, like they know, who
you're talking about.
We're talking about therenaissance in.
Jonathan (29:27):
Europe yeah, we just happens to be England, but we're
talking about, like the, areally upswell in terms of
fashion, architecture and food,and so the Tudor kitchens at
Hampton Court are prettyextensive.
I mean, they're room after roomafter room.
One of the things I found sointeresting is that people would
(29:50):
try and chefs would try andfind the most innovative ways to
create food, and one of thethings was they would take
children's urine to colordifferent sorts of puddings or
jellos.
Hannah (30:08):
I'm sorry what that people ate.
Jonathan (30:11):
In order to get a particular color.
They thought it was fine Wow.
Hannah (30:18):
I, I, I don't, I, OK, wow, that, ok I mean.
So I feel, if we're talkingabout urine, right, I feel like
there's a lot of things thaturine can tell about a woman
because, you know, back in theday the Egyptians would talk
about, egyptians, right, hadways of knowing through a
(30:40):
woman's urine, depending on whatseed flower it would nourish,
if she was pregnant or not,right, and we look at.
Jonathan (30:51):
Oh really, I don't know anything about that.
Hannah (30:52):
I mean honestly, it was a TikTok thing.
I don't know how true it is.
Jonathan (30:54):
Okay, so she would pee on a particular kind of seed
Her pee would go.
Hannah (30:58):
She would pee into a bucket, but it would go into two
different slots.
The Her pee would go, she wouldpee into a bucket, but it would
go into two different slots,the two different plants.
Jonathan (31:05):
And then they would be able to tell her if she was
fertile.
Hannah (31:07):
Right.
Jonathan (31:07):
Or pregnant.
Hannah (31:08):
So if you're looking at when you pee on a stick, right
when you're pregnant, like it'sable to tell you if you're
pregnant or not.
So like it's interesting to seewhat urine can tell us.
Right, it can tell us aboutdiabetes.
It can tell us, right, you cantell us about diabetes.
(31:29):
It can tell us if we'redehydrated.
Well, it's very true, um,medical wise, but I don't think
I would put it in food.
No, it can warm us, like if youpee into a bottle and you're on
the cold.
Jonathan (31:34):
It's supposed to be warm, but well, that's only if
you're, you know, in alaska andtrying to survive.
Hannah (31:39):
I know but urine could tell us a lot.
Yes, I guess that's my point.
Jonathan (31:43):
Don't put it in food well, I agree, but I don't think
the tutors understood that itwas so the tutors.
Hannah (31:50):
And what was the other family they were fighting
against?
Jonathan (31:54):
um well, they fought a lot against a lot of people yes
, what was the other family?
Do you mean like the war of theroses?
Yes I think it was the, not the, lancasters was it lancasters
was game of thrones.
Oh, I'm so sorry um hold on amoment, I'll be able to find it
(32:14):
sorry, that's funny what twofamilies fought they always pay
their debts.
Right, that's the lancasters oris that the the lannisters?
Hannah (32:22):
the lann.
They always pay their debts.
Right, that's the Lancasters,or is that the Lannisters?
The Lannisters always pay theirdebts.
All right, we're mixing thingsup here, people.
Jonathan (32:31):
I was right, the House of York and the House of
Lancaster.
Hannah (32:35):
Okay, so Game of Thrones .
Jonathan (32:38):
But the Lannisters not the Lancaster.
Hannah (32:41):
I was right if I could this couch I bought on sale has
been sitting out here so let'stalk about horror movies oh yeah
, have you told your fellowwanderers of your recent foray
into East Hampton oh my god,let's talk and the air, the land
(33:04):
of gray let's talk about graygardens, because I have so much
I want to talk about ed.
She never answers.
If you guys have not watchedgray gardens, please, all right.
I recommend watching thedocumentary first and then the
movie with drew barrymore.
Jonathan (33:24):
It is the movie with drew barrymore was fab it was
phenomenal and you're gonna.
Hannah (33:29):
You're gonna be sad, you're gonna cry, but you're
gonna be happy, you're gonnalaugh, you're gonna have so many
emotions do you want to give alittle bit of background, or
should I go?
For it.
Jonathan (33:39):
All right, let's go for it so many people would be
familiar with the beals of graygardens of east hampton.
But I wasn't hannah wasn't, andthe only thing I knew was about
jackie.
Kennie are a mother uh daughterduo the beals, who live in a
(34:07):
crumbling mansion shingle styleout in east hampton, new york,
so out in the hamptons, and themansion is called gray gardens
gardens gray gardens, they'llhave the the Transatlantic
accent.
So this mother-daughter duo werefilmed in the 1970s by the
(34:29):
Maisel brothers in a pseudodocumentary.
What brought them to notorietywas that they lived in this
crumbling mansion for decades,seemingly without interaction
with the outside world.
What made them even more famousis that Big Edie, the mother,
was the aunt of Jackie Kennedy,Jackie Kennedy Onassis and her
(34:56):
sister.
I'm trying to remember.
Hannah (35:00):
I see her in my head from the documentary.
I can actually see her.
Jonathan (35:02):
I want to say Lee, but I'm going to remember.
I see her in my head from thedocumentary.
I want to say lee, but I'mgonna get that wrong.
Hannah (35:06):
Um who was their father?
Do you remember their father'sname?
Author was I think jack um holdon one second, jackie kennedy
and, mind you, you don't seejackie kennedy onassis in any of
the documentary oh, I was.
Jonathan (35:20):
I was right, lee Radwell.
Okay, yeah, but you don't seeJackie Onassis in any of the
documentaries.
Hannah (35:28):
Her money is used.
Jonathan (35:29):
Yes, but you have to remember that the Beals were a
very wealthy family who lived inNew York and they had a summer
house in East Hampton out in theHamptons of New York, and they
had a summer house in EastHampton out in the Hamptons of
New York.
And over time, after the Bealsgot divorced and the Sons moved
away, and after a variety ofvery tumultuous things that
(35:53):
happened to the daughter, littleEdie, as she was called, little
Edie and her mother, big Edieuh basically retreated from the
world into this mansion in easthampton and let the world
collapse around them.
Uh, until the 1970s when leeraswell, who was the sister of
jackie kennedy on asses uh wasuh decided that she would film a
(36:16):
pseudo biography film with herfriends, a variety variety of
filmmakers, including AndyWarhol, while she was staying
out on Montauk at the very endof Long Island, and she would
use her aunt, big Edie to helpnarrate part of that film of her
life growing up in the Hamptons.
(36:38):
And in the end that project wasshelved.
But what happened was that theMaisel brothers, who were part
of the film crew, fell so inlove, entranced by the Beals of
Grey Gardens, that they wantedto come back the next summer and
they did to film more of themand they are this charismatic I
(37:00):
I call them new england gothicduo very tragic mother, daughter
, because I think there'ssomething it is tragic it is
tragic because I think so.
Hannah (37:10):
I've talked to john a lot about this and I don't know
if it's I think he agrees withme, but I think there's a
relationship that only a motherand daughter can understand,
where it was this very tragiclove for each other, but they
hindered each other from a lotthat they both could probably
have accomplished in the end,especially from a
(37:32):
mother-daughter relationship, um, housing your child.
In a way.
You're like I need a companion,I need someone to be with me.
You are my, my mini me.
You are named after me, you arelike me.
You have this very eccentricpersonality and I need you
around me to feed me in certainways.
(37:52):
And I think that little Edie hada lot to offer society and she
had big views, especially backin those days where she was
willing to be a certain womanand not have any cares about it,
like I am me and I'm going tobe me, and she wasn't allowed to
flourish in the way that sheneeds to.
(38:13):
But there was also this lovefor her mother and didn't want
her mother alone, and she felt acertain need to be there for
her and a love for her.
So there's it's complex, it'sway more complex, uh, than just
watching it, and because youwatch it and you're like, oh my
(38:34):
god, this is so funny.
And then, especially afterseeing the movie, I think it
helped me understand therelationship a lot more, because
I tried to cinemize a lot ofthat earlier, things that you
just don't see in thedocumentary.
Jonathan (38:48):
Absolutely and I completely agree with you.
See the I think the originalfilm by the Maisels was Grey
Gardens and the summer before,which was something you just saw
, with me a couple weeks ago.
Hannah (39:03):
I think it's called that Summer.
Jonathan (39:05):
Yeah, because there's the documentary, but there's
also an extra part that I hadn'tseen yet with you, and that
film which was filmed a yearbefore, which was honestly the
beginning of the Beals, kind ofcoming into their own.
Because they hadn't reallyspoken to anyone for about 10
years, which is reallyextraordinary, and that had a
(39:27):
lot to do with Lee Bradswell andthat whole film that included
Andy Warhol as a producer.
That film was only discovered afew years ago which is really
extraordinary.
And then, of course, we have thewonderful film the semi, semi,
I think, fictional,semi-fictional film uh, with uh
(39:47):
drew barry moore, and I'm tryingto remember the fabulous
actress from american horrorstory american horror story you
know what um this is what goodphones are for.
You'll find it but seeing thecore film, the film that was
filmed year before, and thenwatching the film with Drew
Barrymore Biography, biographyand then the film.
Hannah (40:11):
Jessica Lange.
Jonathan (40:12):
Yes, I think that's it .
Hannah (40:14):
Yes.
Jonathan (40:14):
I will trust you.
Hannah (40:15):
Fabulous.
Jonathan (40:17):
What I love about this is that, again, I consider it.
I mean there's a certain kindof film and fiction in writing
that's considered SouthernGothic.
I don't think we talk enoughabout New England Gothic.
And I know there's a lot ofpeople who argue about the idea
(40:38):
that New York is part of NewEngland.
Parts of it are, parts of itaren't.
New York City is not but, likeSleepy Hollow, is, and I think
that the Beals of Grey Gardenscan be considered part of the
vernacular of New England Gothicand I think there's something
really extraordinary about it.
So if you haven't seen thebiographies, if you haven't seen
(40:59):
the film with Drew Barrymore,you have to see it.
Hannah (41:02):
And also kind of going with the connection with Andy
Warhol and American Horror Story.
So I just finished the seasonof Cult with American Horror
Story and actually had AndyWarhol in it.
I mean, of course, an actor.
Jonathan (41:14):
Oh, did it really?
Yes, Remind me who's thedirector Ryan Murphy and Brad
Falchuk director ryan, murphyand brad falchik.
So in in the cult uh series isthat the one where they go
underground?
No, that's apocalypse, yes,which actually is next for me.
Hannah (41:30):
I can't do cannibalism um, I didn't know that one had
cannibalism, so I'm lookingforward to it.
Jonathan (41:35):
No, no, don't look forward to it no, because I
watched cult now.
Hannah (41:40):
Now apocalypse is all right, all right so so yeah, so
they actually had a part in cultwhere they go back in time with
andy warhol when he was shotoriginally yes, absolutely.
Jonathan (41:53):
What an interesting.
Hannah (41:54):
You should have an episode on that yeah, it was
fascinating I think americanhorror story tries to be as
historically accurate as it canwith certain things.
Jonathan (42:03):
But they also run with other things.
I mean, Ryan Murphy was alsothe director of.
Was he involved with the DrewBarrymore Grey Gardens?
Oh, I don't know Because thatseems like his stick it could
have been.
Because he did Feud with BetteDavis and Joe Crawford.
I never saw that.
(42:24):
Oh, it's fab.
I mean it's not horror but,it's.
You know, in my social group weall say what does a gay man
love more than anything?
Hannah (42:37):
Two beautifully dressed women ducking it out, two
beautifully dressed womenducking it out.
I just I think what I thoughtwas so interesting about it was
that I didn't even know thatAndy Warhol was shot originally
and lived so the fact that theybrought that into the series of
cult and how he actually waspretty nasty towards women
(42:59):
originally.
Yes, he's a controversialfigure yeah, like for a guy
that's okay reproducing campbellsigns.
I mean, it's wait, what well?
Anywhere how with his campbellcampbell?
Jonathan (43:13):
not cannibal I'm sorry , campbell yes, I mean, but
that's pop art, or what do theycall it?
Fauvism Faux.
Hannah (43:22):
Now I'm out of cover team.
Jonathan (43:24):
But you have to remember that Andy Warhol, for
all of his faults and I think hehas a lot of faults- Apparently
something that no one else waswilling to do and he took the
ordinary of the new consumer eraand he turned it into high art.
(43:49):
He was the banksy of his timeand I think that we have to
respect.
He was a nasty person, he wasan elitist, while also he
considered himself a man of thepeople.
I think he was a reallycomplicated figure, but he did
(44:12):
something in art that no oneelse was willing to do and it
gave us pop art.
It gave us a new wave of art inthe future that we would never
have had without him and I'mgrateful for him.
But the Andy Warhol Museum inPittsburgh is not going to get
my money because, I'm not a fan,though I will say when I lived
(44:36):
in New York City right after thepandemic kind of
pseudo-subsided we were invitedto.
Right after the pandemic kindof pseudo subsided we were
invited to.
My ex-husband was a priest sowe were invited to a person's
home and this was a beautifultownhouse in Brooklyn, beautiful
Victorian townhouse I think itwas four or five stories, single
family had been owned by thesame family for probably four or
(44:59):
five generations.
It was purchased in that partof Brooklyn during the
Depression.
It was purchased, it was thegentleman who owned the house
was a black gentleman and hisancestors purchased it from a
white family who basically hadgone belly up and they had sold
(45:21):
it out to a black family who hadthe money, and a lot of houses
in that neighborhood had beensold out because of that During
the depression white familiessold out because they didn't
have the money to black families, and the black family had sold
it generation after generation,from one to another Kind of a
beautiful thing in a really sadera.
It was fantastic that they wereable to step in.
(45:43):
And I mean now that house isworth millions, but they had
such an extraordinary artcollection.
And one of the things that Ipointed out to my ex was I was
like that is an original AndyWarhol and what it was was the
that kind of grainy image ofJackie Kennedy.
It was an original Warhol.
(46:03):
In addition to how much wouldthat?
Hannah (46:07):
be worth.
Jonathan (46:08):
Quite a lot.
They had an extraordinary artcollection Damn so.
Hannah (46:15):
Well, if I had any Warhol that was worth something,
I might appreciate him more.
Jonathan (46:21):
I don't know if you remember, but in high school, do
you remember, mrs maz?
Hannah (46:24):
oh yes okay who could forget mrs maz, with spanish
class?
Jonathan (46:28):
so she came from relatively wealthy family, I
think in new jersey.
Yeah oh, she had stories she hadlots of stories was a major
buyer in new york and all of asudden she came up to western
mass and who knows why.
But when she left, when shegraduated high school, her
parents said you can have a tripto europe or you can have
(46:48):
whatever you want.
And she had decided that it wasbetween a trip to europe and
she ended up going to spain.
Um, or this original andywarhol which were the.
It was a, an art piece with aphotograph of the rupee slippers
of judy garland in the wizardof oz, which now would be worth
(47:12):
its weight in gold.
And she had decided because shefound it in a junk shop in new
york city.
And they said you can eitherhave that or you can have a trip
to sp.
And she took the trip to Spain.
Hannah (47:23):
I remember her talking about a story about going to see
someone famous and like goingover a fence or something.
I don't know if you remember astory like that.
Jonathan (47:33):
I don't remember that.
Hannah (47:34):
Yeah, there was a story with a fence and dogs and men
with guns, something like that.
I don't know it was a very know.
Jonathan (47:43):
She was fabulous.
I just wish I don't know.
I just wish I knew more of herstories.
Hannah (47:47):
Yeah, it was definitely a Maz story.
Yeah, thank you, jonathan.
This has been a veryinteresting podcast episode.
Jonathan (47:56):
We've been roaming all over the place, so feel free to
cut me into various episodes,but you know'm always available
I'm only a phone call away.
Hannah (48:06):
Well, it's better when you're in person, though,
because it sounds better thanthat's also true.
I have a really sexy voice onthat note, wanderers, thank you
for joining us once again, thankyou for having me.
Jonathan (48:18):
Thank you and court Courtney.
Hannah (48:19):
Bye Wanderers.
Jonathan (48:20):
Bye.
Hannah (48:21):
Thanks for listening.
Today, Wicked Wanderings ishosted by me Hannah and
co-hosted by me Courtney, andit's produced by Rob Fitzpatrick
.
Music by Sasha N.
If you enjoyed today's episode,don't forget to leave a rating
and review and be sure to followon all socials.
You can find the links down inthe show notes.
If you're looking for somereally cozy t-shirts or hoodies,
head over to the merch store.
(48:42):
Thank you for being a part ofthe Wicked Wanderings community.
We appreciate every one of you.
Stay curious, keep exploringand always remember to keep on
wandering, your condoms fallingoff excuse me your condom's
(49:23):
falling off.
Excuse me, your condom nicething.
Jonathan (49:26):
Oh, I think you need to give contacts when you record
that my condom's falling off.
I haven't used a condom inyears.
Hannah (49:35):
That's what Rob calls.
It is a condom.
Jonathan (49:37):
I'm like excuse me, rob you can absolutely cut that
out.
Hannah (49:42):
I don't need to be known as a slut.
This cocktail's fab.
I'm so happy.
I'm so happy for you Are wegoing to have any left for the
beach?
Oh, what a fucking bitch.
Yes, we'll have some for thebeach, okay.
Hannah (00:27):
Hi, I'm Hannah and I'm Courtney.
Join us as we delve into truecrime, paranormal encounters and
all things spooky.
Grab your flashlight and getready to wander into the
darkness with us.
This is Wicked Wanderings.
(00:59):
Hello Wanderers, Welcome backto another episode of Wicked
Wanderings.
Jonathan (01:02):
Hello, hello.
Hannah (01:03):
So our fabulous co-host, courtney, is not available
today, so I asked my dearbrother Jonathan to come in and
help me record something for youguys.
We have something a littledifferent for you.
There's been this book calledStrange History.
John, can you tell me who theauthor is?
Jonathan (01:20):
Strange History, Mysterious artifacts, macabre
legends, bone-headed blundersand Mind-Blowing Facts is by.
Oh, her name isn't actually onthe cover.
Hannah (01:34):
Hold on a moment by.
I know.
Jonathan (01:37):
By the Bathroom Raiders Institute, so it's
definitely a conglomerate.
Hannah (01:47):
So Courtney had found it I, I think, at a Savers long
ago and we were like, oh, thiswould be perfect.
And me and Courtney were like,wow, we don't know enough about
shit in here, so we left it tothe wayside.
But my brother, who is arenowned scholar of many things,
he would be perfect for this.
So he's found a couple thingshe wants to talk about and so we
can discuss.
(02:07):
And, yet again, please likesocial medias tiktok, instagram,
facebook.
Please let us know what youthink.
We, we want to know if you knowanything about these, if you
have any thoughts or links orany pictures, whatever maybe not
some pictures for some things,because there's some stuff about
concubines, we don't need toknow about that, but if you,
have any thoughts, please let usknow.
Jonathan (02:30):
So there was one thing in particular that really
caught my eye, and the title ofthe section is called the Evita
Mummy.
It immediately caused my eyebecause I don't know if you
remember, you probably rememberwhen I was a kid and still
obsessed with ancient Egypt.
Hannah (02:47):
Obsessed.
He's like eight years old.
He's like, yeah, and then thebrains come to the nose and I'm
like, oh my God, it was eighto'clock dinner time.
Like what's going on?
Jonathan (02:55):
I mean just I remember when we watched the Reading
Rainbow and they went throughMummy's Made in Egypt.
The book was Mummy's MaidenEgypt and it said it went
through the whole mummificationprocess and I was obsessed.
(03:16):
I would read that book at avery young age.
Obsessed At the breakfast tableand I remember you being like
absolutely disgusted.
But then what did I buy?
I mean, recently she bought herown copy of a canopic jar,
which is exactly where they,during the mummification process
, when they take out theinternal organs, they put them
(03:37):
into these individual jars, andmy sister bought herself a copy
of a canopic jar with anubis thejackal god on top we love
anubis.
Hannah (03:47):
Anubis is the shizman is he's pretty great right he is.
He is the god of the underworldin a lot of ways, correct?
Jonathan (03:54):
that's my understanding.
Hannah (03:55):
Yeah, yeah, I mean like it's so cool, like they kept
these parts of people, theirorgans, or so they could have
them in the afterlife.
Jonathan (04:02):
I mean they were considered sacred.
Hannah (04:04):
Yeah, I mean, it's fucking cool right now, all
right, so guys just just pictureit.
Right, we're trying to eat ouroatmeal over breakfast and my
little brother is talking aboutorgans.
I haven't even gone throughpuberty yet, right, having a
period.
I'm like, what are you talkingabout?
Jonathan (04:27):
Like so I was a little too graphic over uh cream of
wheat, but didn't you also writeyour?
Hannah (04:29):
own story about a young pharaoh.
Oh gosh, I was like seven oreight.
Yeah, do you still?
Jonathan (04:30):
have it.
I actually do.
Mom saved it for me I'm so gladshe did.
Hannah (04:34):
Yeah, and it was about.
Jonathan (04:35):
The story was about a uh, young boy who was seven or
eight.
I was that age and his father,the pharaoh, died and it was
part of I went through the right, about what you know right.
I wrote in cursive, um, andactually it was interesting
because it aligned really wellwith when my parents got
divorced, um, and our therapistsaid it was actually very
(04:58):
healthy for me.
So I talked about the wholeprocess of the father had died
or left and it was the wholeprocess of what happened
afterwards his death, where hewas buried, the process it went
through and then the ending withthe you know closing of the
tomb and it was a really healthyyou know healthy process for me
(05:21):
to be able to be able to, todigest what was going on around
me I would love to read thatstory again oh it's.
It's not exactly a bestseller.
I illustrated it myself in pen,but uh, since then I have been
(05:41):
entranced by egypt.
Um was supposed to go to Egypton a three-week cruise down the
Nile on my 30th birthday, butunfortunately that aligned with
COVID so we've pushed that offto my 40th.
So hopefully I'll be able tocruise down the Nile in a couple
of years.
Hannah (05:59):
I think a lot of us understand the fuck you COVID of
your 30s Exactly.
Jonathan (06:03):
My 30th birthday right during covid but have been
obsessed with ancient egypt forages, so when I saw this article
that said the evita mummy, Iwas absolutely entranced, and
I'm just going to uh give you asynopsis because it's relatively
long, but most of us know whoevita peron was.
Hannah (06:23):
No, and how she was a you don't no.
Jonathan (06:27):
Okay, cool.
So maybe I'll do a little bitof the introduction and then
I'll give you a synopsis.
So it said.
Former actress Eva Evita Perónbecame a crusader for the poor
in 1940s Argentina.
Hannah (06:39):
Okay.
Jonathan (06:41):
Many people remember Don't Cry For Me, argentina.
Many people remember Don't Cryfor Me, argentina.
Evita was played by Madonna andit was also played by Patti
LuPone in different Broadwayshows.
She was a really extraordinarypolitical figure in Argentina in
the 40s.
Hannah (07:02):
Okay.
Jonathan (07:04):
Her husband, juan, was the president of the country
from 1948 to 1954.
She died from cancer in 1952 atonly the age of 33.
Hannah (07:13):
So really a tragic death for such an extraordinary,
pivotal figure in South America,juan.
Jonathan (07:19):
her husband had her mummified and put on public
display, which is something Inever heard of.
Hannah (07:26):
Is that normal for that?
Jonathan (07:28):
That is very unusual.
Okay, so we have to rememberthat, the way the ancient
Egyptians mummified their dead,no one to this date has ever
been able to replicate it, notin the same way.
So we do have mummies in otherparts of the world, but more
often than not they're naturalmummies.
So they will be a body that'sleft in the elements and it just
(07:53):
happens to be very dry and arid, and the body will mummify.
Hannah (07:58):
Or like cold, cold climates where it's just like,
or extra cold where?
Jonathan (08:01):
they basically freeze into a mummy.
Hannah (08:03):
So I feel like for the Egyptians and correct me if you
know if I'm wrong or right butit was really for the elite that
they were mummified in such away where they were able to be
so crystallized, I guess in acertain way Preserved yeah.
Jonathan (08:19):
Because this wasn't for the common folk, common folk
, everyone in so with theegyptian idea of the dead, and
we have to remember that theegyptian civilization was over a
period of a few thousand years.
So when we think about the factthat the united states has
really only existed for 250 ishyears and we still don't have it
(08:40):
right, but anyways, we stilldon't have it right.
um to anyway, we still don'thave it right To mindfuck you.
Ramses II, one of the mostimportant pharaohs from what we
consider ancient Egypt, wouldhave considered the pyramids.
Ancient Ramses II, as a pharaohof Egypt, had archaeologists
excavating near the pyramidsbecause they were as far away
(09:04):
from him as we are from him oh,good lord, like you guys mind
blown.
Hannah (09:09):
So wait, was he the young, young, young one there
was?
Jonathan (09:12):
he was a younger pharaoh, but he wasn't like
chudin common.
Chudin common was like 12 whenhe died uh, but ram is really
part of the golden age ofancient egypt.
But he would have consideredthe pyramids old.
He would have considered he hadarchaeologists excavating about
the ancient pharaohs.
Hannah (09:32):
But what I kind of love also about the Egyptians is that
they didn't mind women in power.
Right, because we think aboutCleopatra, right.
Jonathan (09:40):
Well, that's a really good point.
I mean Cleopatra, we think ofher as kind of the part of the
denouement, the ending of thegreat.
Egyptian period when the Romanstook over and Cleopatra was
part of a Greek family.
She wasn't Egyptian.
No, I mean, she consideredherself Egyptian.
Hannah (10:00):
Yeah.
Jonathan (10:00):
But she was technically foreign as part of
that family.
I'm trying to remember the nameof her family name, but she
considered herself very Egyptianbut she was technically foreign
as part of that family I'mtrying to remember the name of
her family name but sheconsidered herself very egyptian
but she was actually foreign.
I want to say that she wasgreek, but I will double check
fascinating.
Hannah (10:14):
But I just think some things that cultures back in the
day, like when you think aboutmen's fashion and how it's
evolved over the years and youthink about french men, how they
were the ones that wore heelsand tights and flowing hair.
Jonathan (10:27):
Well, especially when we think of Louis XIV to the
16th, like men would never dothat and you look back in
history.
Hannah (10:32):
that was what men did.
Jonathan (10:34):
Well, it was peacocking.
Hannah (10:39):
Right.
People are so ignorant to howhistory has developed and how
being like the socialized way ofliving has just the people are
stupid.
Honestly, that's the only thingI can think of.
Jonathan (10:54):
So the other thing I think of is, when you're talking
about women in Egypt, I thinkof Hatshepsut, which was many,
many, many generations beforeCleopatra and we were talking
about, I would consider, ahedgehog set pre-Golden Age, but
she really created herself inthe vision of a man, so she was
(11:16):
a woman intrinsically, but allof her outward expressions she's
shown in carvings and sculpturewith the ceremonial beard of a
man.
So the idea that she had beenborn female was less of an issue
and it was more important thatshe established herself in the
(11:36):
proper visage of a male pharaoh.
Hannah (11:40):
So did that have to do with her being like, socialized
as a male figure, or did it haveto do with her sexuality?
Jonathan (11:48):
I don't think it had anything to do with either.
I think it was more of how do I, as a born woman, hold on to
power when my husband has died?
And she held on to power.
He was the pharaoh and she heldon to power and when the next
generation came up, theybasically removed her from all
(12:10):
of her monuments and I don'twant to say that that is
intrinsically anti-women.
Most pharaohs removed theirpredecessors from their
monuments.
In ancient Egypt, the idea wasthat even if your predecessor
created a temple, you might havesomebody go out and rechip
their name for your name or tryand move things around so that
(12:34):
it would be to yourglorification rather than your
predecessor.
So we can't say it's anti-womenthat they removed her from
monuments.
But there was definitelysomething about her that said
I'm in power, so I want topresent myself in the same way
that every other pharaoh hasdone, in a very masculine form.
Hannah (12:53):
Fascinating.
Sorry I've derailed you fromyour original discussion.
Jonathan (12:58):
No, I could honestly talk about ancient Egypt forever
.
Hannah (13:01):
I mean, it is an absolute passion of mine I think
agent egypt itself is is spookyand it talks about death and
and being okay with death.
I think that's something thatyou know, john me and you talked
about a lot about being okaywith our own death right.
Death is coming for us all.
It's not something we canescape.
(13:21):
There's not not some fountain ofyouth, even though there's so
many lore about a fountain ofyouth but it comes to us all and
I think something with theEgyptians that they've realized
is like death is coming to me, Ineed to prepare for it in
whatever way I feel is going tohappen in the afterlife and I
think this goes from people thatare atheists, other people to
(13:41):
have a super religious ceremony,they need to do Like it's
coming to us all and whatever wefind comfort in is okay.
So I think the Egyptiansactually play a big role in
haunted horror lore honestly.
So this has been veryfascinating.
Jonathan (13:58):
I absolutely agree with you and, as you said, this
is a conversation that we've hadpretty frequently especially
recently.
Hannah (14:05):
I agree with that.
Jonathan (14:06):
I mean probably recently, because with my
divorce, you know almost twoyears ago now.
Hannah (14:14):
Sorry.
Jonathan (14:15):
I've had to.
I mean, it's not a lot to me, Idon't really care.
Hey Back in the market.
If you want a spooky bitchwho's also a homosexual, I'm
here, um, even though I have afabulous boyfriend, but anyway,
um always looking for friends umthe idea.
(14:38):
I mean I've had to go andreconsider all of my
arrangements.
So you know, simple things allthe way to.
I mean, with my ex-husband Ihad a particular plot that was,
you know, only for certainpeople, and we had a will set up
.
You know, the estate wasdivided among certain people and
(15:01):
certain nieces and nephews andcertain siblings.
Certain objects went to certainpeople and certain nieces and
nephews and certain siblings.
Certain objects went to certainpeople and everything seemed
really organized.
But then when you divorce,everything is thrown back up in
the air.
So as I go through things, Italk to you and I talk to our
brother and I go and say I wantthis done and this needs to be
changed.
You have to reconsider your owndemise.
(15:25):
So it makes me think of theancient egyptians.
But very quickly to go back toavida yes, avida, sorry, avida
we're now, in the 1940s excuseme, 1952 avida peron is dead,
age 33, far too young for suchan extraordinary political
figure.
Her husband, juan uh, had hermummified and put on public
(15:46):
display in argentina, which Ihad never heard of.
Uh, the procedure, which tookabout a year, cost him about a
hundred thousand dollars in1950s, money which is
extraordinary.
I wonder where he got thatmoney.
Um, uh, as many of us know whofollow politics, during that
period of time Juan fell frompower as president of Argentina
(16:08):
while his wife, evita, was stilllying in state, oh dear.
And he went into exile in Spain.
And if you have to go intoexile anywhere, I just adore
Spain.
Hannah (16:18):
Of all the places.
That's a good one.
Sign me up.
Jonathan (16:21):
But he couldn't arrange for burial before he was
exiled to Spain.
So where did Evita go?
Evita was put into storage likea piece of furniture in.
Buenos Aires, and then shedisappeared from public record.
It turned out thatanti-peronists, people who were
against Evita and her husbandJuan, making sure the body was
(16:45):
never again used as a pro-Paronpolitical symbol, had stolen the
coffin, sealed it in a packingcrate and buried it in a Milan
cemetery.
Hannah (16:55):
Oh my God, Wait, wait, wait.
How did she live in Milan?
She traveled.
That's my point.
Jonathan (17:00):
I don't there's no, I need like a like a sub thing.
Wait a minute.
You wouldn't have just thrownher into some other South
American country.
They put her in Italy.
This girl's traveling morewidely than she ever did in life
.
In 1971, we're talking almost20 years later a sympathetic
Spanish officer told her husband, juan, who's still living,
(17:21):
where his wife was buried.
Hannah (17:28):
Juan Peron had her exhumed from milan and brought
her to spain.
Jonathan (17:30):
Okay, when peron juan peron pried open the coffin, his
wife was so proud wellpreserved from the mummification
that he cried out, quote she isnot dead, she is only sleeping
oh good lord, okay um.
Hannah (17:42):
What was Peron, on?
Jonathan (17:50):
I don't know, maybe it's real wine.
It's pretty good.
Rather than bury his belovedEvita again, peron kept her
around the house.
I mean, this is a little bit Alittle too Irish for me.
I mean not even Irish.
It's like girl she's dead.
Hannah (18:03):
Girl dead, Girl.
Jonathan (18:03):
She's dead, he and his third wife Isabel propped her
up in the dining room and ateover the dining room table with
her every evening.
Hannah (18:12):
I'm sorry, the third wife was like okay, first of all
third wife, but secondly thewife was okay with just like
having her there.
Jonathan (18:20):
I don't know, this is a synopsis, so I mean, maybe she
didn't do the full propping up,but even when they entertained
guests, there was, you know, you, me and Evita.
The arrangement lasted until1973.
So we're only talking about twoyears of Evita silent at the
dining room table when JuanPerón returned to power in
(18:41):
Argentina and left his belovedmummy in Spain.
Hannah (18:45):
Oh wait, I'm sorry, he just left her there, yeah.
Jonathan (18:48):
Well, it's expensive to move.
Later, evita was brought acrossthe Atlantic and finally buried
in Argentina.
Hannah (18:55):
Oh, my God, this poor woman.
Jonathan (18:58):
I know she's pretty fucking worn out.
Oh my Lord.
Hannah (19:00):
My turn.
I need to find something that'scrazy.
Jonathan (19:03):
Yes, you're welcome to Okay my turn.
Hannah (19:05):
Holy cow, I gotta process this.
Jonathan (19:09):
What Isn't that extraordinary?
I mean, it mixes so manydifferent things.
I adore spain, I adore mummiesand, uh, evita poron, but I
don't think that was part of thebroadway musical oh my god,
that poor woman, oh my god.
Hannah (19:26):
I'm just gonna start saying oh my god, for like the
next like hour, because I nowremind me when did franco fall
from power in spain?
Jonathan (19:33):
1954, oh, it looks like.
Uh, franco died in 1975, sothat's actually during the
francoist years, which isactually a really interesting
time to have your mummified wifeat your dining room table.
Hannah (19:44):
Oh, my lord, all right.
Jonathan (19:46):
Well, I found something called next of skin as
long as it's not cannibalism orskinning, I'm okay.
Daddy, can't do it okay, thenmaybe not his stomach gets upset
bible stories.
Oh gosh, let's try it all right, girlfriends, let's go all
right, here we go.
Hannah (20:05):
In 1631, a london bookmaker was printing an
official edition of the Bible,but, due to a goof, one
important word was left out ofall of the printings.
Not Not was the word that wasleft out.
Jonathan (20:20):
Wait, wait Through the entire Bible, yep.
Hannah (20:22):
The section it was missing from oh, I guess this is
what I was saying the sectionit was missing from, the Ten
Commandments.
Result was the book listed nineactual commandments along with
a sentence I read thou shaltcommit adultery.
Oh, I fucking love this itbecame.
Jonathan (20:40):
Thou shalt uh uh desire their neighbor's ass.
Hannah (20:45):
It became known as the wicked bible oh, I fucking look
who.
Jonathan (20:49):
What mischievous, little intern did that.
Hannah (20:53):
I love this.
And speaking of wicked, in 1883, noah Webster, of Webster's
dictionary fame, complained theBible was filled with smut.
Words and phrases are sooffensive, especially to females
, as to create reluctance inyoung persons to attend Bible
(21:14):
classes in schools, in whichthey are required to read
passages which cannot bereplaced without a blush End
quote.
So Webster rewrote the entireBible, removing the quote
unquote filthiest passagesentirely and cleaning up the
less offensive ones, words suchas whore, fornication and teat
Teat.
Jonathan (21:33):
I'm sorry, when fornication and teat Teat?
I'm sorry, when in the Bibledoes it say teat?
Hannah (21:37):
Gave way to mild expressions like lewd woman,
lewdness and breast Titties.
Yeah, teat Me.
And Courtney say teat all thetime.
Jonathan (21:48):
I think that's hysterical, especially when we
consider back to the episode youdid about the Salem Witch
Trials.
It was all about teats.
Hannah (21:55):
Exactly.
Jonathan (21:56):
It was all about titties.
Hannah (21:57):
Which makes sense, because in 1883, he redid it.
That makes total sense.
Jonathan (22:01):
It's so funny because he was basing that off of the
latest translation from theancient text, which would have
been the King James Bible, whichis Jacobine.
So we're still dealing with aBible that's several hundred
years after its originaltranslation.
Hannah (22:16):
But I think this proves the point.
Men were dealing with the Biblelike who the fuck said they
didn't make mistakes beforehand.
Jonathan (22:23):
I mean, we're translating after translating
after translating.
I mean I will say that as avery queer child growing up.
And, rob, if this doesn't workout, you can totally keep it in.
But I really appreciated theold King James version of Sodom
(22:44):
and Gomorrah personally as avery queer child.
Hannah (22:49):
Can I ask why, though?
Is it just because they weretalking about like men with men?
Jonathan (22:54):
Oh, yeah, I mean it was scandalous.
I mean we understand now thatthe translation was the sorry,
not the translation.
The interpretation of thatsection of the scriptures was
wrong.
Right, Correct.
We understand now that hadnothing to do with men lying
with men, right it was more, youhad a very vulnerable visitor,
(23:18):
with two visitors actually intown, the most, uh, vulnerable
people in this new in in sodomand gomorrah and you're there to
attack them and that wasconsidered beyond reproach.
That was a sin that could notbe forgiven.
You are taking the mostvulnerable people of the
(23:42):
populace, these visitors whodidn't know anyone, and you were
going to attack them and thatwas considered beyond
forgiveness.
And that can be totallyunderstood when you talk about
it like that.
But when it's men lying withmen, I mean there's also the
interpretation of the fact thatthe people of Israel had to
procreate in order to actuallyexist.
Hannah (24:04):
But that's different.
Jonathan (24:06):
Sorry, I'm on a tirade I'm going to have a cocktail,
you're fine.
Hannah (24:09):
I'm going to read the last one.
Early 20th century Ethiopianemperor menelik the second had
an unusual habit when he feltsick or uneasy, he ate a few
pages out of a bible okay, Idon't.
Jonathan (24:22):
I don't know if I might take a little tums, but he
was feeling especially sickafter suffering a stroke in 1913
so he ate the, the entire bookof Kings.
Hannah (24:33):
A few days later, the emperor died of intestinal
blockage caused by the paper.
Why, why?
Why?
Because where do we get paper?
Jonathan (24:44):
from Pulp from trees.
You're not supposed to eattrees.
Hannah (24:47):
Why.
Jonathan (24:50):
Why did he eat it or why did he have the blockage?
Hannah (24:52):
No, why did he eat it?
Why did he have the blockage?
No, why did he eat it?
Okay?
Jonathan (24:54):
but I mean, ethiopia is a whole different, uh, topic
of conversation, which is reallyinteresting because that's the
country that we think that thequeen of sheba came from.
Oh, and that's where somescholars think that the um ark
of the Tabernacle went to.
And there are actually priestsin Ethiopia who say that they
(25:21):
are in charge of the Ark of theTabernacle in Ethiopia.
Hannah (25:27):
Interesting.
Jonathan (25:29):
I mean, I don't think they eat paper.
Hannah (25:31):
Not so mellow yellow.
Ooh, ever heard of alchemy, ofcourse, it was a medieval
science and philosophy, and oneof its goals was to find a way
to turn base metals into gold ina process called transmutation.
Scientists now know that thisis impossible, but in the 1600s
(25:52):
it was a viable, potentiallylucrative form of research.
An alchemist from hamburg,germany, named hennig brand,
believed the way to create goldwas by chemically altering a
very common substance.
Do you know what it is?
oh, the core substance that theywanted to yes, a very common
substance that they wanted to.
(26:13):
Yes, a very common substancethat they wanted to use.
I don't know, straw Urine.
Jonathan (26:17):
Okay, maybe not the first place.
Maybe I'd start with adifferent metal or you know, go
the rubble stiltzkin route anddo you know, Probably be better
off going rubble stiltzkin routethe hay into gold.
But all right, we can startwith urine.
Hannah (26:31):
At the time it made sense Okay.
Jonathan (26:34):
I don't know to whom People weren't dumb.
Hannah (26:37):
A prevailing theory of the day was that, because urine
and gold were both yellow, someadvanced form of alchemy might
be able to turn one to the other, which is bullshit.
Jonathan (26:46):
Alright, I suppose they have crazies every
generation.
Hannah (26:50):
With this in mind, bran spent months collecting urine.
When he accumulated 50 bucketsof the stuff, mostly donated by
local soldiers, he put them intohis basement to age or allow
the water to evaporate out andconcentrate the urine.
One day in 1669, bran wasexperimenting with his bucket
loads of concentrated soldierpee and ended up with a vibrant
(27:11):
blue-green substance thatappeared to glow to glow, I'm
sorry, both in the light and inthe dark, but brand couldn't get
it to do anything else.
In 1675 and their germanalchemist named daniel craft
purchased brand's blue goo andmade a fortune, showing it off
to royalty and other wealthyeuropeans really craft's act was
basically magic tricks.
(27:33):
He'd light candles with thestuff, throw it into gunpowder
to make explosions and writeglowing blue green words with
dehydrated urine yeah, itwouldn't be until 100 years
later the blue green substancethat brand had discovered and
craft tried to take credit forwould be named phosphorus.
Today, phosphorus is abundantin manufacturing, commonly used
(27:54):
in products just soda,fertilizer, matches, flares and
fireworks and they don't have toget it from urine that's
extraordinary.
Jonathan (28:04):
I didn't know that.
Who knew we could all make afortune from our own urine?
Hannah (28:08):
your turn.
I can't be taught to findanything anymore.
Jonathan (28:11):
What that reminds me of is that one of my other
passions is.
Hannah (28:15):
Collecting urine everybody.
Jonathan (28:16):
Not collecting urine, trust me about it.
Flush that shit Literally.
But one of my other passions isculinary history, and one of
the things I did with my ex isthat I really wanted to go to
hampton court palace outsidelondon and they have, uh, what's
(28:37):
considered by scholars to bethe most intact tudor kitchens
okay uh, which to me is reallyinteresting.
And one of the things that Ifound really interesting was
that, during the era of henrythe eighth and we're talking
about Elizabeth- I and alsoeveryone, henry VIII, come on.
Henry VIII.
What did I say?
Henry the no, no, you saidHenry VIII.
(28:58):
Oh, I said Henry VIII, no, butI just want everyone to know.
Hannah (29:00):
Like you've seen the show the Tudors, we know about
Henry VIII decapitating some ofhis wives.
Like, trust me, like Catherinede Medici.
All that.
You guys know who he is.
Jonathan (29:11):
I'm sorry of course Catherine de Medici was French.
You mean Catherine of Aragon,right?
Hannah (29:17):
Catherine of Aragon, I'm sorry, she existed at the same
time.
Jonathan (29:21):
So I knew, I knew you were thinking.
Hannah (29:22):
I'm sorry.
I guess I just wanted to wonderis to know, like they know, who
you're talking about.
We're talking about therenaissance in.
Jonathan (29:27):
Europe yeah, we just happens to be England, but we're
talking about, like the, areally upswell in terms of
fashion, architecture and food,and so the Tudor kitchens at
Hampton Court are prettyextensive.
I mean, they're room after roomafter room.
One of the things I found sointeresting is that people would
(29:50):
try and chefs would try andfind the most innovative ways to
create food, and one of thethings was they would take
children's urine to colordifferent sorts of puddings or
jellos.
Hannah (30:08):
I'm sorry what that people ate.
Jonathan (30:11):
In order to get a particular color.
They thought it was fine Wow.
Hannah (30:18):
I, I, I don't, I, OK, wow, that, ok I mean.
So I feel, if we're talkingabout urine, right, I feel like
there's a lot of things thaturine can tell about a woman
because, you know, back in theday the Egyptians would talk
about, egyptians, right, hadways of knowing through a
(30:40):
woman's urine, depending on whatseed flower it would nourish,
if she was pregnant or not,right, and we look at.
Jonathan (30:51):
Oh really, I don't know anything about that.
Hannah (30:52):
I mean honestly, it was a TikTok thing.
I don't know how true it is.
Jonathan (30:54):
Okay, so she would pee on a particular kind of seed
Her pee would go.
Hannah (30:58):
She would pee into a bucket, but it would go into two
different slots.
The Her pee would go, she wouldpee into a bucket, but it would
go into two different slots,the two different plants.
Jonathan (31:05):
And then they would be able to tell her if she was
fertile.
Hannah (31:07):
Right.
Jonathan (31:07):
Or pregnant.
Hannah (31:08):
So if you're looking at when you pee on a stick, right
when you're pregnant, like it'sable to tell you if you're
pregnant or not.
So like it's interesting to seewhat urine can tell us.
Right, it can tell us aboutdiabetes.
It can tell us, right, you cantell us about diabetes.
(31:29):
It can tell us if we'redehydrated.
Well, it's very true, um,medical wise, but I don't think
I would put it in food.
No, it can warm us, like if youpee into a bottle and you're on
the cold.
Jonathan (31:34):
It's supposed to be warm, but well, that's only if
you're, you know, in alaska andtrying to survive.
Hannah (31:39):
I know but urine could tell us a lot.
Yes, I guess that's my point.
Jonathan (31:43):
Don't put it in food well, I agree, but I don't think
the tutors understood that itwas so the tutors.
Hannah (31:50):
And what was the other family they were fighting
against?
Jonathan (31:54):
um well, they fought a lot against a lot of people yes
, what was the other family?
Do you mean like the war of theroses?
Yes I think it was the, not the, lancasters was it lancasters
was game of thrones.
Oh, I'm so sorry um hold on amoment, I'll be able to find it
(32:14):
sorry, that's funny what twofamilies fought they always pay
their debts.
Right, that's the lancasters oris that the the lannisters?
Hannah (32:22):
the lann.
They always pay their debts.
Right, that's the Lancasters,or is that the Lannisters?
The Lannisters always pay theirdebts.
All right, we're mixing thingsup here, people.
Jonathan (32:31):
I was right, the House of York and the House of
Lancaster.
Hannah (32:35):
Okay, so Game of Thrones .
Jonathan (32:38):
But the Lannisters not the Lancaster.
Hannah (32:41):
I was right if I could this couch I bought on sale has
been sitting out here so let'stalk about horror movies oh yeah
, have you told your fellowwanderers of your recent foray
into East Hampton oh my god,let's talk and the air, the land
(33:04):
of gray let's talk about graygardens, because I have so much
I want to talk about ed.
She never answers.
If you guys have not watchedgray gardens, please, all right.
I recommend watching thedocumentary first and then the
movie with drew barrymore.
Jonathan (33:24):
It is the movie with drew barrymore was fab it was
phenomenal and you're gonna.
Hannah (33:29):
You're gonna be sad, you're gonna cry, but you're
gonna be happy, you're gonnalaugh, you're gonna have so many
emotions do you want to give alittle bit of background, or
should I go?
For it.
Jonathan (33:39):
All right, let's go for it so many people would be
familiar with the beals of graygardens of east hampton.
But I wasn't hannah wasn't, andthe only thing I knew was about
jackie.
Kennie are a mother uh daughterduo the beals, who live in a
(34:07):
crumbling mansion shingle styleout in east hampton, new york,
so out in the hamptons, and themansion is called gray gardens
gardens gray gardens, they'llhave the the Transatlantic
accent.
So this mother-daughter duo werefilmed in the 1970s by the
(34:29):
Maisel brothers in a pseudodocumentary.
What brought them to notorietywas that they lived in this
crumbling mansion for decades,seemingly without interaction
with the outside world.
What made them even more famousis that Big Edie, the mother,
was the aunt of Jackie Kennedy,Jackie Kennedy Onassis and her
(34:56):
sister.
I'm trying to remember.
Hannah (35:00):
I see her in my head from the documentary.
I can actually see her.
Jonathan (35:02):
I want to say Lee, but I'm going to remember.
I see her in my head from thedocumentary.
I want to say lee, but I'mgonna get that wrong.
Hannah (35:06):
Um who was their father?
Do you remember their father'sname?
Author was I think jack um holdon one second, jackie kennedy
and, mind you, you don't seejackie kennedy onassis in any of
the documentary oh, I was.
Jonathan (35:20):
I was right, lee Radwell.
Okay, yeah, but you don't seeJackie Onassis in any of the
documentaries.
Hannah (35:28):
Her money is used.
Jonathan (35:29):
Yes, but you have to remember that the Beals were a
very wealthy family who lived inNew York and they had a summer
house in East Hampton out in theHamptons of New York, and they
had a summer house in EastHampton out in the Hamptons of
New York.
And over time, after the Bealsgot divorced and the Sons moved
away, and after a variety ofvery tumultuous things that
(35:53):
happened to the daughter, littleEdie, as she was called, little
Edie and her mother, big Edieuh basically retreated from the
world into this mansion in easthampton and let the world
collapse around them.
Uh, until the 1970s when leeraswell, who was the sister of
jackie kennedy on asses uh wasuh decided that she would film a
(36:16):
pseudo biography film with herfriends, a variety variety of
filmmakers, including AndyWarhol, while she was staying
out on Montauk at the very endof Long Island, and she would
use her aunt, big Edie to helpnarrate part of that film of her
life growing up in the Hamptons.
(36:38):
And in the end that project wasshelved.
But what happened was that theMaisel brothers, who were part
of the film crew, fell so inlove, entranced by the Beals of
Grey Gardens, that they wantedto come back the next summer and
they did to film more of themand they are this charismatic I
(37:00):
I call them new england gothicduo very tragic mother, daughter
, because I think there'ssomething it is tragic it is
tragic because I think so.
Hannah (37:10):
I've talked to john a lot about this and I don't know
if it's I think he agrees withme, but I think there's a
relationship that only a motherand daughter can understand,
where it was this very tragiclove for each other, but they
hindered each other from a lotthat they both could probably
have accomplished in the end,especially from a
(37:32):
mother-daughter relationship, um, housing your child.
In a way.
You're like I need a companion,I need someone to be with me.
You are my, my mini me.
You are named after me, you arelike me.
You have this very eccentricpersonality and I need you
around me to feed me in certainways.
(37:52):
And I think that little Edie hada lot to offer society and she
had big views, especially backin those days where she was
willing to be a certain womanand not have any cares about it,
like I am me and I'm going tobe me, and she wasn't allowed to
flourish in the way that sheneeds to.
(38:13):
But there was also this lovefor her mother and didn't want
her mother alone, and she felt acertain need to be there for
her and a love for her.
So there's it's complex, it'sway more complex, uh, than just
watching it, and because youwatch it and you're like, oh my
(38:34):
god, this is so funny.
And then, especially afterseeing the movie, I think it
helped me understand therelationship a lot more, because
I tried to cinemize a lot ofthat earlier, things that you
just don't see in thedocumentary.
Jonathan (38:48):
Absolutely and I completely agree with you.
See the I think the originalfilm by the Maisels was Grey
Gardens and the summer before,which was something you just saw
, with me a couple weeks ago.
Hannah (39:03):
I think it's called that Summer.
Jonathan (39:05):
Yeah, because there's the documentary, but there's
also an extra part that I hadn'tseen yet with you, and that
film which was filmed a yearbefore, which was honestly the
beginning of the Beals, kind ofcoming into their own.
Because they hadn't reallyspoken to anyone for about 10
years, which is reallyextraordinary, and that had a
(39:27):
lot to do with Lee Bradswell andthat whole film that included
Andy Warhol as a producer.
That film was only discovered afew years ago which is really
extraordinary.
And then, of course, we have thewonderful film the semi, semi,
I think, fictional,semi-fictional film uh, with uh
(39:47):
drew barry moore, and I'm tryingto remember the fabulous
actress from american horrorstory american horror story you
know what um this is what goodphones are for.
You'll find it but seeing thecore film, the film that was
filmed year before, and thenwatching the film with Drew
Barrymore Biography, biographyand then the film.
Hannah (40:11):
Jessica Lange.
Jonathan (40:12):
Yes, I think that's it .
Hannah (40:14):
Yes.
Jonathan (40:14):
I will trust you.
Hannah (40:15):
Fabulous.
Jonathan (40:17):
What I love about this is that, again, I consider it.
I mean there's a certain kindof film and fiction in writing
that's considered SouthernGothic.
I don't think we talk enoughabout New England Gothic.
And I know there's a lot ofpeople who argue about the idea
(40:38):
that New York is part of NewEngland.
Parts of it are, parts of itaren't.
New York City is not but, likeSleepy Hollow, is, and I think
that the Beals of Grey Gardenscan be considered part of the
vernacular of New England Gothicand I think there's something
really extraordinary about it.
So if you haven't seen thebiographies, if you haven't seen
(40:59):
the film with Drew Barrymore,you have to see it.
Hannah (41:02):
And also kind of going with the connection with Andy
Warhol and American Horror Story.
So I just finished the seasonof Cult with American Horror
Story and actually had AndyWarhol in it.
I mean, of course, an actor.
Jonathan (41:14):
Oh, did it really?
Yes, Remind me who's thedirector Ryan Murphy and Brad
Falchuk director ryan, murphyand brad falchik.
So in in the cult uh series isthat the one where they go
underground?
No, that's apocalypse, yes,which actually is next for me.
Hannah (41:30):
I can't do cannibalism um, I didn't know that one had
cannibalism, so I'm lookingforward to it.
Jonathan (41:35):
No, no, don't look forward to it no, because I
watched cult now.
Hannah (41:40):
Now apocalypse is all right, all right so so yeah, so
they actually had a part in cultwhere they go back in time with
andy warhol when he was shotoriginally yes, absolutely.
Jonathan (41:53):
What an interesting.
Hannah (41:54):
You should have an episode on that yeah, it was
fascinating I think americanhorror story tries to be as
historically accurate as it canwith certain things.
Jonathan (42:03):
But they also run with other things.
I mean, Ryan Murphy was alsothe director of.
Was he involved with the DrewBarrymore Grey Gardens?
Oh, I don't know Because thatseems like his stick it could
have been.
Because he did Feud with BetteDavis and Joe Crawford.
I never saw that.
(42:24):
Oh, it's fab.
I mean it's not horror but,it's.
You know, in my social group weall say what does a gay man
love more than anything?
Hannah (42:37):
Two beautifully dressed women ducking it out, two
beautifully dressed womenducking it out.
I just I think what I thoughtwas so interesting about it was
that I didn't even know thatAndy Warhol was shot originally
and lived so the fact that theybrought that into the series of
cult and how he actually waspretty nasty towards women
(42:59):
originally.
Yes, he's a controversialfigure yeah, like for a guy
that's okay reproducing campbellsigns.
I mean, it's wait, what well?
Anywhere how with his campbellcampbell?
Jonathan (43:13):
not cannibal I'm sorry , campbell yes, I mean, but
that's pop art, or what do theycall it?
Fauvism Faux.
Hannah (43:22):
Now I'm out of cover team.
Jonathan (43:24):
But you have to remember that Andy Warhol, for
all of his faults and I think hehas a lot of faults- Apparently
something that no one else waswilling to do and he took the
ordinary of the new consumer eraand he turned it into high art.
(43:49):
He was the banksy of his timeand I think that we have to
respect.
He was a nasty person, he wasan elitist, while also he
considered himself a man of thepeople.
I think he was a reallycomplicated figure, but he did
(44:12):
something in art that no oneelse was willing to do and it
gave us pop art.
It gave us a new wave of art inthe future that we would never
have had without him and I'mgrateful for him.
But the Andy Warhol Museum inPittsburgh is not going to get
my money because, I'm not a fan,though I will say when I lived
(44:36):
in New York City right after thepandemic kind of
pseudo-subsided we were invitedto.
Right after the pandemic kindof pseudo subsided we were
invited to.
My ex-husband was a priest sowe were invited to a person's
home and this was a beautifultownhouse in Brooklyn, beautiful
Victorian townhouse I think itwas four or five stories, single
family had been owned by thesame family for probably four or
(44:59):
five generations.
It was purchased in that partof Brooklyn during the
Depression.
It was purchased, it was thegentleman who owned the house
was a black gentleman and hisancestors purchased it from a
white family who basically hadgone belly up and they had sold
(45:21):
it out to a black family who hadthe money, and a lot of houses
in that neighborhood had beensold out because of that During
the depression white familiessold out because they didn't
have the money to black families, and the black family had sold
it generation after generation,from one to another Kind of a
beautiful thing in a really sadera.
It was fantastic that they wereable to step in.
(45:43):
And I mean now that house isworth millions, but they had
such an extraordinary artcollection.
And one of the things that Ipointed out to my ex was I was
like that is an original AndyWarhol and what it was was the
that kind of grainy image ofJackie Kennedy.
It was an original Warhol.
(46:03):
In addition to how much wouldthat?
Hannah (46:07):
be worth.
Jonathan (46:08):
Quite a lot.
They had an extraordinary artcollection Damn so.
Hannah (46:15):
Well, if I had any Warhol that was worth something,
I might appreciate him more.
Jonathan (46:21):
I don't know if you remember, but in high school, do
you remember, mrs maz?
Hannah (46:24):
oh yes okay who could forget mrs maz, with spanish
class?
Jonathan (46:28):
so she came from relatively wealthy family, I
think in new jersey.
Yeah oh, she had stories she hadlots of stories was a major
buyer in new york and all of asudden she came up to western
mass and who knows why.
But when she left, when shegraduated high school, her
parents said you can have a tripto europe or you can have
(46:48):
whatever you want.
And she had decided that it wasbetween a trip to europe and
she ended up going to spain.
Um, or this original andywarhol which were the.
It was a, an art piece with aphotograph of the rupee slippers
of judy garland in the wizardof oz, which now would be worth
(47:12):
its weight in gold.
And she had decided because shefound it in a junk shop in new
york city.
And they said you can eitherhave that or you can have a trip
to sp.
And she took the trip to Spain.
Hannah (47:23):
I remember her talking about a story about going to see
someone famous and like goingover a fence or something.
I don't know if you remember astory like that.
Jonathan (47:33):
I don't remember that.
Hannah (47:34):
Yeah, there was a story with a fence and dogs and men
with guns, something like that.
I don't know it was a very know.
Jonathan (47:43):
She was fabulous.
I just wish I don't know.
I just wish I knew more of herstories.
Hannah (47:47):
Yeah, it was definitely a Maz story.
Yeah, thank you, jonathan.
This has been a veryinteresting podcast episode.
Jonathan (47:56):
We've been roaming all over the place, so feel free to
cut me into various episodes,but you know'm always available
I'm only a phone call away.
Hannah (48:06):
Well, it's better when you're in person, though,
because it sounds better thanthat's also true.
I have a really sexy voice onthat note, wanderers, thank you
for joining us once again, thankyou for having me.
Jonathan (48:18):
Thank you and court Courtney.
Hannah (48:19):
Bye Wanderers.
Jonathan (48:20):
Bye.
Hannah (48:21):
Thanks for listening.
Today, Wicked Wanderings ishosted by me Hannah and
co-hosted by me Courtney, andit's produced by Rob Fitzpatrick
.
Music by Sasha N.
If you enjoyed today's episode,don't forget to leave a rating
and review and be sure to followon all socials.
You can find the links down inthe show notes.
If you're looking for somereally cozy t-shirts or hoodies,
head over to the merch store.
(48:42):
Thank you for being a part ofthe Wicked Wanderings community.
We appreciate every one of you.
Stay curious, keep exploringand always remember to keep on
wandering, your condoms fallingoff excuse me your condom's
(49:23):
falling off.
Excuse me, your condom nicething.
Jonathan (49:26):
Oh, I think you need to give contacts when you record
that my condom's falling off.
I haven't used a condom inyears.
Hannah (49:35):
That's what Rob calls.
It is a condom.
Jonathan (49:37):
I'm like excuse me, rob you can absolutely cut that
out.
Hannah (49:42):
I don't need to be known as a slut.
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