January 22, 2024 • 41 mins
One of my most favorite blogs is one called Murder by Gaslight. It focuses on historical true crime. The writer behind it is Robert Wilhelm and he’s also a nonfiction author. He tells us the story of Pearl Bryan from his book, So Far From Home.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
People did age faster in those days in terms of
becoming adults, but they were not sophisticated enough to really
realize how much danger they were in.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
I'm Kate Winkler Dawson, a nonfiction author and journalism professor
in Austin, Texas. I'm also the host of the historical
true crime podcast Tenfold More Wicked and the co host
of the podcast Buried Bones on Exactly Right. I've traveled
around the world interviewing people for the show, and they
are all excellent writers. They've had so many great true
(00:47):
crime stories, and now we want to tell you those
stories with details that have never been published. Tenfold More
Wicked presents Wicked Words is about the choices that writers make,
good and bad. Dive into the stories behind the stories.
One of my most favorite blogs is called Murder by Gaslight.
(01:09):
It focuses on historical true crime right up my alley.
The writer behind it is Robert Wilhelm, and he's also
a non fiction author. He tells us the story of
Pearl Brian from his book So Far From Home. So
I am a huge fan of your blog, Murder by gaslight.
(01:31):
I think it's a fantastic I mean I've known about
it for years. How long have you been doing it?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
I think it's about fourteen years. Two thousand and nine
is when I started.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Well, I have talked about it, you know. I have
a different show with Paul Holes called Buried Bones, where
we look at old cases through a twenty first century lens,
and I've used some of the cases that you have.
Of course, we do our own research, but I use
some of the cases. And I always say I love
this website because I consider myself pretty well versed in
crime and history, and you do an incredible job curating
(02:05):
really obscure, but I think thoughtful and impactful crimes through history.
I just want to talk about briefly before we get
into the book, because I love the site so much.
How do you find these stories? What do you do?
It just seems like you pull them out of a
magic hat or something. Ye know.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
It started taking notes about two thousand and nine. Well,
one murder will refer to another, and it sort of
builds on itself. And after I finished with all all
of the major ones, you know, Lizzie Borden, ones like that,
it got a little bit harder to find, but there
are a lot of murder pamphlets online. It's, you know,
nineteenth century people writing about nineteenth century murders. And what's
(02:42):
good is most of them have pictures. But it adds
to the whole effect to have a photo or a
drawing or a painting of some kind.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Well, your stories I find to be very well written
and very reliable. We've used a couple of your cases
and I refer to them in the podcast, and the
researcher always comes back and says, we've added to the sources,
but he is spot on. So that is to me
the sign of a fantastic nonfiction author. And I, because
I'm in you know, of course, looped into your newsletter.
(03:12):
I have seen you send out, you know, stories about
the Pearl Brian book that you have, and that's what
we want to talk about. Why don't we start with
where we are in time, late eighteen hundreds and who
the victim is, because we always try to start with
the victim. So tell me about Pearl before all of
this terrible stuff happens.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
The year was eighteen ninety six, and she was the
youngest daughter of a family of thirteen children. And she
was the baby of the family, the one that everyone pampered.
But she was bright and smart, well known in the community.
She was attending college, which was would be unusual for
Indiana farm girl at the time. She kept her own counsel.
She did not have a lot of close friends or boyfriends.
(03:53):
That she became pregnant, and no one knew it except
her cousin, who may or may not have been the father.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Oh my god. I know our audience can imagine what
pregnancy for someone who was unmarried would have been like
in the eighteen hundreds, but can you give us some context.
What a woman? What was she in her late teens
early twenties when this happened.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
She was twenty two.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
What would it have been like for an unmarried mother
at twenty two?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
For her personal life, it would have been I think,
just devastating her uncle who was the father of the
cousin that may or may not have been the father. Oh.
As a minister, a high ranking minister in the Methodist church.
According to the statements made by her cousin and by
Scott Jackson, who was later accused, she was anxious to
have an abortion just to put an end to her
problem because she had no other choice. She wasn't whoever
(04:40):
it was was not going to marry her.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
So she is twenty two. Had she completed college by
the time she had gotten pregnant.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
I think she was still in college, but the college
was in her hometown, DePaul University.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
And what do we know about the relationship between Pearl
and her cousin. Are we saying this was a consensual
relationship or is it unclear?
Speaker 2 (05:00):
I don't know. He was a bragger and he would
talk to his friends about you know how he had
a soft snap with Pearl. He could tell these tales
about going to our house when her parents went home
and going to her bedroom and things like that. And
then when she was pregnant, he sent to Cincinnati to
find drugs to end the pregnancy. But he told his
friends about it and said that he was responsible. He
(05:22):
later denied that he told them. His name was Will Wood.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
So Will is saying that this is a consensual relationship.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
He never admitted it though, he.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Never admitted it right, but he was bragging about it.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
He was bragging about it beforehand.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Yet when he was bragging, was he bragging that it
was a boyfriend girlfriend kind of thing or I mean,
I guess we don't have a real sense for that.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
It would just be the equivalent of casual sex.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Okay, you know for a context, also in the late
eighteen hundreds, would that have been a consensual relationship? Would
that have been okay between husins? Would that have been
encouraged or discouraged in their community in Indiana?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
It would have been discouraged cousins, and it would have
been discouraged. Premarial sex at all all hypothetical because he
never admit to doing it.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Yeah, okay, So she's pregnant and she has made it
clear to multiple people that she'd like to terminate the pregnancy.
Is that right?
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Just to will Wood and to Scott Jackson who was
in Cincinnati at the time and would have been arranging
the abortion.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Do we believe that she wanted that or what do
you think?
Speaker 2 (06:26):
I think she did want it, And she traveled to
Cincinnati alone, which would have been a little bit of
an adventure. She had been to Indianapolis once for her
school trip. That was like the farthest she had ever traveled,
and now she's going to Cincinnati alone. Her parents would
later say she wasn't gone for an abortion. She was
gone to convince him to marry her.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
So is this in eighteen ninety six, when she's pregnant
and she is going to Cincinnati for an abortion? For
all we know, Yes, Okay, will has arranged this. Will
Woods has arranged this.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Her cousin right with Scott Jackson, who had been in
Greencastle the summer before. He admitted to going out with
Pearl a couple of times, but did not consider her
his girlfriend or you know, a close relationship. It was
just friends and they did write letters back and forth
before all of this happened. According to his statement, will
Wood wrote to him and said, Pearl's pregnant and we
(07:16):
need to do something. And he sent him the prescriptions.
They didn't work. And then he said, send her down
here and we have an abortion. Have an operation. His roommate,
Alonzo Walling, apparently had connections who knew how to have
an abortion in the region. People to go to.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Who is this guy? They both of these guys. Are
they in the medical field at all? And this is
Cincinnati versus Indiana.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
They were both dental students at the Ohio Dental College
in Cincinnati. They had met each other at the Indiana
School of dentistry, which a year earlier, and Scott Jackson
had to leave because he was arrested in the brothel
on New Year's Eve for drunkenness, and he convinced his
mother to send him back to school, but Cincinnati this time,
and they just happened to run each into each other
(07:59):
again and took a room together at a roominghouse in
a sort of city district of Cincinnati.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
So Pearl goes via train. Is that right to Cincinnati
from Indiana?
Speaker 2 (08:09):
That's right?
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Is she by herself? She is by herself, and her
parents are saying that she's hoping to get married, and
that's what this trip is about. And that is not
what other people are saying. They're saying she's going for
an abortion.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
At this point, she told her parents she's going to
visit a friend in Indianapolis, an old school friend, and
she didn't tell them she was even going to Cincinnati.
So at this point they don't know she's pregnant.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
She arrives in Cincinnati, and do these two men were
talking about Alonzo and Scott, the two dental students, do
they meet her at the train station.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
No, they were supposed to meet her, but will Wood
told him she was coming to Cincinnati on Monday, but
they didn't say what train line, what time. Scott Jackson
went to one depot, Lonza Walling went to the other depot.
Neither of them saw. So she is all alone again
in a strange city, and the cab driver takes her
to a hotel, a reasonably christ hotel she can stay.
(09:00):
Next day she gets in touch with Scott Jackson at
his college, you know. He takes her out and she
spends two nights at that hotel. Then on Wednesday, he says,
we're going to take you where the abortion is going
to take place. In his story, Alonzo Walling took her
away to the abortion and he had no idea where
or when it was going to take place. Walling says,
last time he saw her it was with Jackson, and
(09:21):
he never saw her again after Wednesday, but he didn't
have anything to do with it, and that's the story
they stuck with for a year.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
So essentially, according to Pearl Bryan's family, she vanishes. She's
supposed to go to Indianapolis to meet a friend she
we know, actually goes to Cincinnati and then she is
not heard or seen from until when.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
The body was discovered on Saturday of that same week,
and they were very fortunate they were able to identify
it within another week. And that's the first they knew.
The parents knew anything about where she was when the
police came to their door and said, we think your
daughter was murdered Kentucky and we've got a bag of
her clothing, and they identified the clothing as hers.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Well, I mean, how did she end up in Kentucky?
How did that happen?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
It was in the town of Newport, Kentucky, which is
right across the Ohio River from Cincinnati, and it was
about five miles south of the river, in a clearing
in the woods. Unfortunately for the police, a young boy
on his way to work that Saturday morning took a
shortcut through the woods, came to the clearing and found
the decapitated body, and then he ran and told his
boss and that he called the sheriff that it was chaos.
(10:29):
Reporters arrived first. Oh, of course, contaminated the scene, but they,
you know, they didn't have a lot of forensic to
work with.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Anyway, this is February in Kentucky, right when she's discovered.
I can't imagine this is not freezing cold. I wonder
what that discovery must have been like. I guess she
wasn't covered with snow or anything.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
It had rained the night before, okay, so everything was wet,
but it wasn't freezing.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
So a headless corpse, and I'm assuming at some point
do they find the head.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I never find that, Oh gosh. So they didn't know
how they were going to identify her. They started with
assuming that Fort Thomas, which is the army for it
in the town, was within walking distance of the place
where she was found dead. So police assumed that it
was a soldier who did it before, and of course
denied that they actually had the body on display and
anyone could come in and see. And there were some
(11:21):
false identifications. She had a distinctive foot in that the
toes were connected to each other by a web of skin,
and that was how they one way they were able
to eliminate false identifications and also proved to her parents
that yes, this was your daughter.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Okay. I had read that there was suspicion that she
might have been a sex worker, and then that was dispelled, right,
And you also said that she has a distinctive, you know,
physical feature, So I still don't know in eighteen ninety six,
how does that information get from Kentucky to how many
(11:56):
miles away is her family in Indiana? That seems like
isn't a long way?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yeah, it took all day by train?
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Yeah, how does that happen?
Speaker 2 (12:03):
One of the people that came to look at the
body was a shoe dealer named Lewis Pook, and he
could recognize that the boot she wore was distinctive and expensive,
but a very small foot. In fact, it was a
size three, but it was padded with moss, so her
foot was even smaller than that. Wow, And there were
markings on the boot that he could identify as the
manufacturer's mark. Contacted the factory. They directed him to a
(12:26):
shoe store in Greencastle, and that's when they thought, well,
she must have been from there. They also had another clue,
someone who had left their husband in Greencastle and gone
off with the soldier for it, so I thought maybe
it was her. So anyway, they had two reasons to
go to Greencastle. But when they get there, the shoe
store books are all arranged by name rather than date,
(12:46):
and then they had to just go down the list
look for the any shoes sole that were from that
shipment and in that size, and that took all day.
In the meantime, one of the reporters went to the
telegraph office to send the information back to his newspaper,
and the manager of the telegraph office said, you know,
I think it might be Pearlbrian because her brother sent
(13:07):
a telegram to someone in Indianapolis saying asking if his
sister had arrived safely, and the response was she hasn't
arrived and we're not expecting her. Also that he was
a friend of Will Woods and had heard him talk about,
you know, abortion and things like that, and he just
put two and two together and said, maybe that's pear Olbrian.
So they went back to the shoe store and said,
(13:27):
let's see some records for Pearlbrian, and there were the
shoes that she had purchased that last September, and they
went to the family and they identified the clothing. But
it was very fortunate the time that first of all,
that they found the body at all the day after
the murder, because it could have been once yeah. And
then second that the shoe dealer was able to pinpoint
the store. And then the third was that the telegraph
(13:48):
manager could give them her name.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
That is all a stroke I mean, stroke of I
want to say stroke of luck. But it really that
was smart. All of that was very smart. Paul Hole's
an eye on Barry Bones often talked about it's just
like a miracle sometimes when they solve crimes, and this
was just good old fashioned detective work to be able
to identify who. I'm sure the killer or killers did
(14:12):
not know that her shoes and her feet would be
able to identify her. Obviously, they cut off her head
to prevent identification even though she was, you know, more
than a state away. Could they find out from her
body what her cause of death was? I know she's
missing her head.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
No, no, no other marks. There were some defensive marks
on her hands. Okay, Well there were two two ideas.
Ones that she was stabbed in the throat or in
the head before the head was cut off, and the
other was that her head was severed while she was alive.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Oh gosh, why do they think that before?
Speaker 2 (14:45):
I think because there was so much blood in the
leaves above the body, the artery had spurret it. Then
there was you know, when they get to the trial,
there's some controversy. Was there enough blood to account for
a severed head, and then they had an expert witness
testify for the fact that if they had severed the
headwall alive, it would have taken ten minutes and it
would have been somewhat too much blood to continue after
(15:06):
a certain point, But it was still the most common theory.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
I couched this all the time by saying, just because
coroners in the eighteen hundred say no signs of sexual
assault does not mean there was no sexual assault. But
did they find any obvious signs of sexual assault?
Speaker 2 (15:21):
No, they didn't, okay. In fact, they didn't know she
was pregnant until the autopsy. Five months pregnant.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Five months pregnant, Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
I don't think the abortion drugs would have worked anyway.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
So they identify her, and I can really only imagine
her family's reaction to all of this. Did they know
she was pregnant or No?
Speaker 2 (15:40):
No, they didn't. The only one who knew was will.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Wood, so they're devastated. Obviously they were able to give
them the two names. One was will Wood and the
other was Scott Jackson. Will Wood was the one who
had introduced Pearl to Scott Jackson, and in the parents. Mind,
he was as guilty as even if he wasn't the
killer or the father of the baby. But he had
gone to South Bend, Indiana to visit a relative at
(16:03):
the same time, and Scott Jackson was in Cincinnati. So
the detectives and the sheriff went on to Indianapolis to
arrest will Wood, and then back in Cincinnati they arrested
Scott Jackson, and then he made an off, sort of
a casual remark to a reporter that this roommate Alonzo
Walling might be involved as well. So the reporter went
out and arrested Walling, brought him back to the police station,
(16:25):
and they booked him. It's interesting that none of these
actions involved the police. The investigation was the shoe.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Store telegraph operator. Well, now it's a good time to
talk about citizens arrests. That you were allowed to do that.
I think you had to get it, didn't You have
to get a warrant from a judge and then you
could go out or just anybody could slap cups on you.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
As far as I know, you didn't have to. I
think you had to back it up once you brought
them in. Yeah, it was something that private detectives would
do at the time, but it was often they've stolen
something and you get a private detective arrest the guy
and said they make a deal to get the stolen
item back.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
My first season, one of the other shows tenfold more
wicked I have. We're dealing with a guy who had
an arrest war and in eighteen forty three a family
member needed to catch him. He was on the run
for killing his wife and his child, and the family
member had to go to a judge and secure a warrant.
But the judges said, go get him and bring him back.
You know, we'll make sure that this guy gets thrown
(17:20):
in jail. So the family member went out and finally
had to get him. But it was very confusing. It
just seemed very haphazard. Who could arrest too for what reason?
Speaker 2 (17:30):
The problem comes in when it's crossing state lines, because
they were much more severe about that than we are now. Yeah. Yeah,
and sometimes it'd be just kidnapping.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
And you're talking about three different areas here. So she's
found in Kentucky, the guys are from Cincinnati, and she's
from Indiana. So yeah, it sounds like a jurisdictional mess.
I bet Okay, So we have identified Pearl, and we
know that she was connected to Scott Jackson and her
(17:58):
cousin will Wood. We have no idea who the father was.
It sounded like she might have been involved either involuntarily
or voluntary with either of these men, but were not
sure and I'm assuming they never established, you know, the father,
who the father was of the baby.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Will Wood of course said it was Scott Jackson. Yeah,
Jackson said it was will Wood. Alonza Walling. The roommates
said they didn't know which it was, which was why
they just let's have an abortion. We don't know whose
baby this is.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Oh my gosh. Okay, So now we have three people
under arrest. Right, We've got will Wood, the cousin, We've
got Scott Jackson, and then we got the roommate who
was also a dental student, Alonzo Walling. Are all three
of them under arrest and dragged to where Kentucky or Indiana?
Speaker 2 (18:41):
They're in Cincinnati.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Okay, So they stay in Ohio and they're arrested.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Will Wood was brought by train to Cincinnati and he
was told he was just going to be a witness,
but they had already had a warrant for his arrest
in Cincinnati, and when he's talking about abortion, they said, okay,
we have enough to indict this guy. We're going to
arrest him. And that caused some problems because the sheriff
in Kentucky had promised him he wouldn't be arrested. But
this is Cincinnati. They don't care what the sheriff said
(19:05):
to him. And they had had a warrant from a
judge saying arrested some of it. But the judge said,
book him and then leave him in the custody of
his father if he promises to come back and testify it,
because he had to go on trial too for the
flanned abortion. But I don't know if they had really
enough evidence for that beyond his own statements.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
So the three of them are arrested, And is this
all first degree murderer what they're charged with?
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Jackson and Walling would charge with first degree murderer.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Okay, and this would have, of course resulted in a hanging.
I'm assuming yes. What is the trail that detectives or
the prosecutors can use to prove this because isn't this
just sort of right now? These men saying, well, I
might have slept with her. I might have not I
don't know anything about an abortion right, and this is
all hearsay coming from wheal Wood, and that's it.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
What they really hoped was that they questioned Jackson and
Walling separately and then one would convict the other one
would bring chick just against the other. But they stuck
to their stories. There were some anger between the two
of them, but both of them just said, we didn't
see her after Wednesday, and we don't know what happened
to her. You know. Jackson said I think Walling took her,
and Walling would say I think Jackson took her, but
(20:13):
I don't know. But the police were sure that it
was Scott Jackson, probably with Walling's help. They had eyewitnesses
at a saloon near their house. The three of them
were seen getting into a Surrey, a horse drawn vehicle,
near the bar, and they said, okay, we don't care
what happened earlier in the week. We know on Friday
night she got into this cab with Jackson and Walling,
(20:35):
so they really wanted to get the driver of the cab.
In the meantime, the newspapers are going off on their own.
There was a woman in Indianapolis, who claimed she knew
Pearl from the past, met her at the train station
in Indianapolis and gave her advice on boarding the baby,
and later she claimed she actually gave her an abortion
(20:57):
in Indianapolis, and then she went back to Cincinnati and
died in Scott Jackson's apartment. At first they believed her,
but you know, by the second day in prison, her
stories became too wild and they said, no, his contradictor,
she didn't do anything. But then there was another woman
in Cincinnati who was Walling's girlfriend, claimed that Scott Jackson
(21:18):
had told her that he had a girl pregnant in
Greencastle and was going to kill her when she came
to town. And then he sent her letters saying, you know,
I didn't really mean that, but she ended up dying
in my apartment. That was what she told her reporter.
The next day, she talked to the police and recanted
the story. She said she was drunk, but she told him.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
That, well, is she doing that to protect her boyfriend,
to protect Alonzo Walling?
Speaker 2 (21:39):
That's what I think.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Yeah, okay, So when you've got these contradictory stories, and
I'm assuming will Woods said, I put her on a
train and that's the last thing I know is that
it right.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
In fact, he did not even driving her to the
train station, even though her parents saw her get into
his carriage.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
With these two men, they have contradictory stories. Do we
have any physical evidence anywhere? Is their blood? Are their tools?
What about the crime scene? What do they think actually happened?
Moving forward?
Speaker 2 (22:08):
They had her clothing because she was she was staying
with Jackson. They were dumping her clothes down sewers and
over the bridge to hide the evidence. But very little
physical evidence. It was all dearsaying pretty much.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
They could not find blood. There was nothing where they
could even identify where this happened.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
There was a pair of pants in Walling's locker that
had mud similar to the scene, but they were Jackson's pants.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
And it doesn't even matter, right, that's nothing, Yeah, it
is nothing. How is Pearl framed in eighteen ninety six newspapers?
(22:55):
This is a woman who is pregnant, she's unweed, she's
going for supposed to and legally abortion. So are they
framing her as a victim or are they blaming her?
What are they saying?
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Definitely a victim?
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Okay, good?
Speaker 2 (23:09):
And she was considered a very nice, proper girl. Her
girlfriends from school from high school states things like she
was too agreeable, too easy to persuade. They were sort
of blaming her innocence.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
So they are sort of framing her as almost like
a martyr in the newspapers at this point. And how
are they framing Scott Jackson and Alonzo Walling just as
horrible predators with you know, degrees in medicine, who are
perfectly capable of not only performing abortions, taking advantage of
young women and then killing them.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
They were as evil as possible.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
What is specifically tying either of these two guys to her,
you know, being murdered and beheaded? Is there anything besides
just this story?
Speaker 2 (23:52):
They know she came to Cincinnati and was seen in
Jackson's company several times. Okay, but again no physical evidence. Okay,
So how does the trial unfold? Are they on trial
at the same time, these two men or is it separate?
They were separated, and that was sort of an important distinction.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
I bet, as it usually is who goes first. Yeah,
the second person usually testifies against the first person, screws
them over, and then the other guy gets a light
scence or no sentence at all.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Didn't happen this time though, because they stuck to their stories.
Some moderation, but Jackson was tried first, and that's really
the one that everyone wanted to see.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Hang, so what happens? Does he ever take the stand?
Speaker 2 (24:30):
He did take the stand. In fact, it was a
couple of unusual things about that. The defense attorney had
no opening statement. He just put Jackson on the stand
and he testified all day, and that the paper had
almost the whole thing verbat him. You know his history,
He had the trouble he had gotten into in New Jersey.
He was a clerk to the Pennsylvania Railroad and had
been involved in robbing money from the till and then
(24:53):
again in Indianapolis when he was arrested for drunkenness in
a brothel on New Year's Eve. But they brought all
that stuff out. The point where the prosecuting attorney is saying,
is this drug testimony or cross examination? Because it seemed
like he was indicting himself. Yeah, and then he also
talked about having sex with.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Pearl, and nobody can prove who the father of this
baby was to begin with. But still he denies having
to do anything with her murder and just points to Alonzo. Right,
is Alonzo testifying at all in Scott's trial?
Speaker 2 (25:27):
No, he didn't testify.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Wow, So we have Scott Jackson who's been on the
stand testifying and he's not saying really that many great things.
Does anybody else testify in this case?
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Well, a lot of people for the prosecution testified, basically
identifying the clothes. Her mother identified the clothes, her sister
identified her clothes. The merchants who sold the clothes identified them.
You know, because there was no head, you can't just
point to it and say, yes, this is Pearl Brian.
They had to really drive home that, yes, this dead
body without a head is Pearl Brian. Someone came in
(25:59):
and claimed to be the driver and he's his testimon
money was very important.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
This is the driver. Remind me of that again.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Who the driver was supposedly took the three of them
from Cincinnati to the murder scene, and he had a
very detailed description of how that went. With Scott Jackson
and pro Brian in the back of the carriage and
he's driving with Alonza Walling holding a pistol to his head.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Oh my gosh, Well, tell me about that story. So
this guy gets on the stand he says, what, I
picked these three people up, two men and one woman,
and the man and the woman get in the cab
and the other guy sits up on the rumble seat
with me.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Yeah. When he first brought the story to the police,
that was wonderful for them. Now we have an unbroken
chain of circumstantial evidence and eyewitness evidence as well, from
the saloon where they were last scene to the place
where she was murdered. But this guy, who was kind
of dicey, had been in trouble in Springfield, Ohio, had
accused someone of robbing from him and was not long
after this indicted for perjury in that case.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Oh gosh.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
The police were totally convinced that this was true, and
the newspapers were scott to go, and sometimes lawmen from
other towns were skeptical as well, and they actually re
enacted the route one night before the trial, where he
would take the cab the same route he had taken
it before, followed by the police and several newspaper carriages.
But it was not a direct route. It was a
(27:16):
very strange route. But he did end up there, so
there was still a lot of doubt about this, but
he was the most important of the witnesses.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
So is he saying that the murder scene was in
the woods where the boy found the headless body.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Yes, they stopped at the road, climbed over the fence.
He said that Pearl looked like she was drugged at
the time.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Were there signs that someone had performed an abortion on
her or attempted to?
Speaker 2 (27:38):
According to the postmodem doctors, there was no attempt.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Huh. What does the prosecutor think actually happened? Both men
were involved. Do they think that this was planned from
the start or was there sort of a discussion where
Pearls said I don't think I want to do this
anymore kind of thing and they snapped.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
They think that she came down for the abortion, or
maybe to ask him to marry her, and he decided
the way out was to kill her. They drove across
the river look out of the woods and cut off
her head. The early indictment actually said Walling held her
down while Jackson cut off her head.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
And who was assuming that? How are we placing Walling
aside from this sketchy cab driver. How else are we
placing Walling at the scene at all.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Well, he was seen getting into the cab okay. Also,
the driver testified that Walling was there, but he had
no connection at all to Pearl, had only met her
one time. Yeah, they had eventually changed the indictment saying
that one of them held her down and one of
them got the head off, because there was really no
way to know who actually did the cutting, but because
of Jackson's connection to Pearl, it was assumed it was her.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
But are Jackson and Walling what are they saying about
the I'm assuming reliable witnesses who say we saw these
guys get into a cab with a woman. Are they denying?
Are they saying it wasn't us?
Speaker 2 (28:56):
The bar people are saying it was Friday night and
Jackson saying no, Tuesday night, which was the last night
he had seen her, and Walling said the same thing.
Interesting that Friday afternoon, Scott Jackson had shaved his beard off.
He'd been to the barbershop and the barber suggested shave
it and he did so he's clean shaven for the
first time since he came to Cincinnati. At the bar
they said, no, he looked the same as every other night.
(29:18):
So it makes a question whether they were right about
the day or not.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Is there anyone else significant who takes the stand in
Scott Jackson's trial.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
His landlady took the stand to say that, to her knowledge,
they were both in their room Friday night.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
What really? So is she their alibi? Are they saying
that's what was happening was they were in their room?
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (29:38):
What a mess, Robert, this story? Okay? So ultimately, is
there anyone else that we need to talk about before
we find out what happens with Scott?
Speaker 2 (29:47):
One other thing that should be mentioned. The driver, whose
name was also Jackson, was the leader of they were
called the Cold Ball Guards. It was a drill team
black men who would do army drills in the park
with the intention someday joining the state militia. And he said, yeah,
we were drilling that night and then I left. Walling
came by and said, who wants to make five dollars
(30:09):
to drive this cab to Kentucky. So the other Jackson
took the job. But Scott Jackson's attorney deposed the members
of the cauld War Guard and they all said, no,
we didn't drill that night because we had a private
meeting that we were court martialing one of our members.
There's say twelve people with sworn depositions saying no, we
didn't drill that night. When it comes to his trial,
(30:30):
the prosecution brings them in one by one, they all testified,
yes we did. They said that they signed the depositions,
and they quitted perjury one way or the other. Well, okay,
that's another thing that the police had the ability to say,
we want you to go and testify in Kentucky, because
there's no way that you could be forced to do
that across state lines. So they probably threatened these people.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
It's just my guess what did the police want them
to say that they were perjuring? Just so that I'm
totally clear, these.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Yes we did drill that night, and that's the extent
of it. I mean, but it was in either or
a situation if they didn't drill that night. The basis
of Jackson's testimony is faulse Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Are we thinking at this point, based on all of
this contradictory evidence, is Scott Jackson being reil roaded or no?
For this murder?
Speaker 2 (31:20):
I think in terms of first degree murder probably yes.
I think if they said said manslaughter they probably could
have convicted him. I think in Scott Jackson's mind he said, well,
we didn't commit first degree murders, so let's not plead
guilty to anything and we'll just be acquitted. Sort of
goes back to the fact these people are all very young.
He was twenty six, Walling.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Was nineteen, Pearl was twenty two.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
I mean, people did age faster in those days in
terms of becoming adults, but they were not sophisticated enough
to really realize how much danger they were in. If
they had said, yes, she died from an abortion, they
would have gone to jail for the abortion instead of
first degree murder.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
So everything closes out. There's contradictory stuff, but it looks
like the prosecutor's case seems to be compelling. And Jackson
did himself no favors as usual by taking the stand.
Most defendants don't do themselves any favors and sort of
incriminates himself. And what ultimately does the jury of all men,
I presume.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Say they found him guilty murder?
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Is this hanging?
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (32:20):
So he is convicted in what mid eighteen ninety six, right?
Speaker 2 (32:24):
It may I believe Walling's trial was right after and
it was almost exactly the same. In fact, they sort
of there are some things that they sort of fine
tuned a little bit. But he was convicted as well.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
So these men are both convicted, both sentenced to hang,
and both continue to deny it. They both say the
other person really did it, but they're not giving any
more context to the other person. Okay.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
They both appealed and the appeals were denied. It's been
almost a year since the convictions. They're preparing to be hanged.
Effect a couple of days before the hanging. That's why
they decided to confess that they together with a doctor
in Bellevue, Kentucky, just right next to Newport. They took
us there for the abortion, and that's when she died
from the drugs. And the doctor said, we can't leave
(33:07):
her here. We've got to do something. We got to
dump her, and they take her to this spot. And
that's another interesting thing is there's no way for Jackson
wanting to know that this spot existed, but it was
known to the people at the fort. They would go
bring their dates there sometimes. Anyway, the doctor takes them
there and the doctor cuts her head off.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
This is what they say, right.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
That's what they say in two separate confessions. However, they're
sitting in the same room.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Why that doesn't make any sense. Why are they after
a year and an appeal has been denied. Why is
this all of a sudden coming up in eighteen ninety
seven to save them from the gallows?
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Hopefully, if nothing else, maybe have more investigation. Because they
mentioned the doctor. They mentioned the druggist that supplied the medicine.
Whilst the confessions became public, the druggist says, oh, yeah,
they came in that night and bought some air gut.
They wanted whiskey as well, but couldn't sell them the whisky,
so we had to mix it with something.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Did they not do a toxic coology report on her,
which would have been something they could have done in
eighteen ninety six. Did they not test her blood for anything?
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Not that I know of.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Well, so tell me what the combination of drugs are.
You've got Jackson and Wallings sitting next to each other
in the police station, are in jail, and they're saying, Okay,
we have this story. We don't want to die at
the gallows. Here's what actually happened. We took pearl to
a doctor. He gave her this mixture of drugs. What
was the mixture that turned out to be from their
(34:29):
point of view, deadly.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
They didn't really know. They said that the doctor injected
her with a clear liquid. They had found cocaine in
the stomach, and which was common for dental students because
they use it for anesthetic. The drugists said they bought
airgun and whiskey. Assuming this is true. Whatever it was,
it was the mixture of the drugs that got her.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
So the cocaine would have been kind of numbing.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Someone else have mentioned chloroform alone. If you overdose, you
could overdose on.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
So the doctor's real, this guy's real, is he denying?
Speaker 2 (35:01):
Yeah? He did. There were rumors early on about this.
He was sort of a nervous character and we'd talk
to himself in the backyard and said, you know, maybe
he did it. I kind of thing. But it was
reported in the newspaper, so it's possible that Jackson and
Walling said, you know, this guy's already on the on
the list, let's accuse him. It was at the insane
asylum and the confessions come out and the doctors say
(35:21):
declared him cured so he could go back and defend himself.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Oh god.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
But then the family denied it. But the drug is
stuck to his story, saying that no, that they sent
me a prescription and I filled it.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Okay, So this doctor got a prescription for iergot so
he wanted a prescription. But if this is somebody who
performs abortions, then this would not have been abnormal for
him to do any way, regardless of this case.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Right. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
So the doctor says, I've never seen this woman. I
didn't do anything, and I certainly didn't cut her head off, right,
And Jackson and Walling say, this is our story, and
this is what we want to this is what we're
going with. What is the reaction?
Speaker 2 (36:00):
They send it to the governor and the governor says,
we don't believe that's true. It contradicts your testimony. They
contradict each other and some of the points and don't
accept it.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
So final appeal denied. And are they both hanged? I'm
assuming they are both hanged.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
By this point, people really think it's just Scott Jackson
and Walling is a co conspirator or just there by
bad luck. And they're trying to get Jackson to say, well,
Walling wasn't there and he didn't do it, so don't
hang him. But Jackson won't do it because in order
to do that, he has to admit, yes, I was
there and killed Pearl Bryant and Walling didn't, and he's
(36:36):
not going to go that far. So he let his
friend hang, whether he's guilty or not.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
Wow, what do you think when it's all said and done.
You've looked at this case more than anybody, What do
you think?
Speaker 2 (36:46):
I think it was a botched abortion, whether the doctor
was involved, or whether it happened in Cincinnati and they
just dumped the body there. There's still contradictory things like
there were defensive marks on her.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Hand, lots of blood, lots.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
And lots of blood. There's so much about Scott. Jackson's
a fast talker, sort of a behind the scenes kind
of guy. Not violent, he was short of stature, not
known to be violent. Boy.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
It only takes one time, though, right about that, then
all of a sudden, you are violent, and this poor woman,
you know, she comes down, she's pregnant. Who knows what
her intention was for getting on that train, whether it
was an abortion or whether it was to beg someone
to marry her. Who knows. We just know she ended
up in Cincinnati when she told her parents she was
(37:31):
going to Indianapolis, and then that is it. Then the
mystery of what happened to her after that is lost
over the past, you know, one hundred and thirty years.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
And the conclusion that I drew is that the main
reason that's so hard to say what really happened is
that everybody lied, So you don't know what to believe. Yeah,
and it's not like maybe part of this and maybe
part of that. No, it's either or almost every story.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
And you said Pearl kept her own counsel. I love
that phrase. I always forget. That's such an old phrase.
Kept her own counsel. And her parents didn't even know
she was pregnant, so we don't have a lot of
information from her. And then you've got all of these
dubious people, including her cousin, a doctor, and a stagecoach operator.
The only reliable people, it seems like, in this case,
(38:16):
you've got prosecutors who are trying to solve this and
under a lot of public pressure, the only reliable people
are the initial you know, people who stepped forward, the
telegraph operator who flagged these messages that just seemed alarming.
You know, the shoe manufacturer who said, boy, this is audits.
The people who were initially able to sound the alarm
(38:37):
about who she was and what the circumstances might have been.
So thank goodness for those people, because if not, this
woman would have ended up in a potter's grave and
would have never been in any way given some sort
of you know, recognition or any sort of you know,
vengeance here right, And.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
If he hadn't found it the first day, as I said,
it might have been months before they on that body,
and then there would be no way to identify her.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
How do you think she is known throughout history? Is
this a well known case? I had heard her name,
but I really didn't know the case until I looked
at your book.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
It's not as well known as I think it should be.
I mean, when it was happening, it was a national story. Yeah,
papers all over the country. I think sometimes history flattens
things in the sense that whole year of turmoil and
controversy is just reduced to the police caught the killers
and they hung them. Here's the driver, and here's the
shoe guy, and so forth. The details are not there
(39:34):
because they were hung. There's no mystery in that particular summary.
You know what I mean you to say, Oh, yeah,
they were as good police work they hung them. Case closed.
I'll not say Lizzie Borden.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Yeah, but I still think there is that mystery. This
woman on her own in some way or the other,
certainly fell prey to predators in one way or the other,
including in her family potentially, and then you know, she
dies a terrible death based on the forensics that we're
(40:04):
talking about, by herself. And there seems to be a
message in there somewhere, and one that shouldn't be forgotten.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Right. There are three murder ballads about the case, where
it's sort of a morality play, a cautionary tale. Watch
Out Who You Trust.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
If you love historical true crime stories, check out the
audio versions of my books The Ghost Club, All That
Is Wicked, and American Sherlock. This has been an exactly
right production. Our senior producer is Alexis a Morosi. Our
associate producer is Christina Chamberlain. This episode was mixed by
John Bradley. Curtis Heath is our composer. Artwork by Nick Toga.
(40:53):
Executive produced by Georgia Hartstark, Karen Kilgarriff, and Danielle Kramer.
Follow Wicked Words on Instagram and Facebook at tenfold more
Wicked and on Twitter at tenfold more. And if you
know of a historical crime that could use some attention
from the crew at tenfold more Wicked, email us at
info at tenfoldmore wicked dot com. We'll also take your
(41:14):
suggestions for true crime authors for Wicked Words
This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
People did age faster in those days in terms of
becoming adults, but they were not sophisticated enough to really
realize how much danger they were in.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
I'm Kate Winkler Dawson, a nonfiction author and journalism professor
in Austin, Texas. I'm also the host of the historical
true crime podcast Tenfold More Wicked and the co host
of the podcast Buried Bones on Exactly Right. I've traveled
around the world interviewing people for the show, and they
are all excellent writers. They've had so many great true
(00:47):
crime stories, and now we want to tell you those
stories with details that have never been published. Tenfold More
Wicked presents Wicked Words is about the choices that writers make,
good and bad. Dive into the stories behind the stories.
One of my most favorite blogs is called Murder by Gaslight.
(01:09):
It focuses on historical true crime right up my alley.
The writer behind it is Robert Wilhelm, and he's also
a non fiction author. He tells us the story of
Pearl Brian from his book So Far From Home. So
I am a huge fan of your blog, Murder by gaslight.
(01:31):
I think it's a fantastic I mean I've known about
it for years. How long have you been doing it?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
I think it's about fourteen years. Two thousand and nine
is when I started.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Well, I have talked about it, you know. I have
a different show with Paul Holes called Buried Bones, where
we look at old cases through a twenty first century lens,
and I've used some of the cases that you have.
Of course, we do our own research, but I use
some of the cases. And I always say I love
this website because I consider myself pretty well versed in
crime and history, and you do an incredible job curating
(02:05):
really obscure, but I think thoughtful and impactful crimes through history.
I just want to talk about briefly before we get
into the book, because I love the site so much.
How do you find these stories? What do you do?
It just seems like you pull them out of a
magic hat or something. Ye know.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
It started taking notes about two thousand and nine. Well,
one murder will refer to another, and it sort of
builds on itself. And after I finished with all all
of the major ones, you know, Lizzie Borden, ones like that,
it got a little bit harder to find, but there
are a lot of murder pamphlets online. It's, you know,
nineteenth century people writing about nineteenth century murders. And what's
(02:42):
good is most of them have pictures. But it adds
to the whole effect to have a photo or a
drawing or a painting of some kind.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Well, your stories I find to be very well written
and very reliable. We've used a couple of your cases
and I refer to them in the podcast, and the
researcher always comes back and says, we've added to the sources,
but he is spot on. So that is to me
the sign of a fantastic nonfiction author. And I, because
I'm in you know, of course, looped into your newsletter.
(03:12):
I have seen you send out, you know, stories about
the Pearl Brian book that you have, and that's what
we want to talk about. Why don't we start with
where we are in time, late eighteen hundreds and who
the victim is, because we always try to start with
the victim. So tell me about Pearl before all of
this terrible stuff happens.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
The year was eighteen ninety six, and she was the
youngest daughter of a family of thirteen children. And she
was the baby of the family, the one that everyone pampered.
But she was bright and smart, well known in the community.
She was attending college, which was would be unusual for
Indiana farm girl at the time. She kept her own counsel.
She did not have a lot of close friends or boyfriends.
(03:53):
That she became pregnant, and no one knew it except
her cousin, who may or may not have been the father.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Oh my god. I know our audience can imagine what
pregnancy for someone who was unmarried would have been like
in the eighteen hundreds, but can you give us some context.
What a woman? What was she in her late teens
early twenties when this happened.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
She was twenty two.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
What would it have been like for an unmarried mother
at twenty two?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
For her personal life, it would have been I think,
just devastating her uncle who was the father of the
cousin that may or may not have been the father. Oh.
As a minister, a high ranking minister in the Methodist church.
According to the statements made by her cousin and by
Scott Jackson, who was later accused, she was anxious to
have an abortion just to put an end to her
problem because she had no other choice. She wasn't whoever
(04:40):
it was was not going to marry her.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
So she is twenty two. Had she completed college by
the time she had gotten pregnant.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
I think she was still in college, but the college
was in her hometown, DePaul University.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
And what do we know about the relationship between Pearl
and her cousin. Are we saying this was a consensual
relationship or is it unclear?
Speaker 2 (05:00):
I don't know. He was a bragger and he would
talk to his friends about you know how he had
a soft snap with Pearl. He could tell these tales
about going to our house when her parents went home
and going to her bedroom and things like that. And
then when she was pregnant, he sent to Cincinnati to
find drugs to end the pregnancy. But he told his
friends about it and said that he was responsible. He
(05:22):
later denied that he told them. His name was Will Wood.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
So Will is saying that this is a consensual relationship.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
He never admitted it though, he.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Never admitted it right, but he was bragging about it.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
He was bragging about it beforehand.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Yet when he was bragging, was he bragging that it
was a boyfriend girlfriend kind of thing or I mean,
I guess we don't have a real sense for that.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
It would just be the equivalent of casual sex.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Okay, you know for a context, also in the late
eighteen hundreds, would that have been a consensual relationship? Would
that have been okay between husins? Would that have been
encouraged or discouraged in their community in Indiana?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
It would have been discouraged cousins, and it would have
been discouraged. Premarial sex at all all hypothetical because he
never admit to doing it.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Yeah, okay, So she's pregnant and she has made it
clear to multiple people that she'd like to terminate the pregnancy.
Is that right?
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Just to will Wood and to Scott Jackson who was
in Cincinnati at the time and would have been arranging
the abortion.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Do we believe that she wanted that or what do
you think?
Speaker 2 (06:26):
I think she did want it, And she traveled to
Cincinnati alone, which would have been a little bit of
an adventure. She had been to Indianapolis once for her
school trip. That was like the farthest she had ever traveled,
and now she's going to Cincinnati alone. Her parents would
later say she wasn't gone for an abortion. She was
gone to convince him to marry her.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
So is this in eighteen ninety six, when she's pregnant
and she is going to Cincinnati for an abortion? For
all we know, Yes, Okay, will has arranged this. Will
Woods has arranged this.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Her cousin right with Scott Jackson, who had been in
Greencastle the summer before. He admitted to going out with
Pearl a couple of times, but did not consider her
his girlfriend or you know, a close relationship. It was
just friends and they did write letters back and forth
before all of this happened. According to his statement, will
Wood wrote to him and said, Pearl's pregnant and we
(07:16):
need to do something. And he sent him the prescriptions.
They didn't work. And then he said, send her down
here and we have an abortion. Have an operation. His roommate,
Alonzo Walling, apparently had connections who knew how to have
an abortion in the region. People to go to.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Who is this guy? They both of these guys. Are
they in the medical field at all? And this is
Cincinnati versus Indiana.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
They were both dental students at the Ohio Dental College
in Cincinnati. They had met each other at the Indiana
School of dentistry, which a year earlier, and Scott Jackson
had to leave because he was arrested in the brothel
on New Year's Eve for drunkenness, and he convinced his
mother to send him back to school, but Cincinnati this time,
and they just happened to run each into each other
(07:59):
again and took a room together at a roominghouse in
a sort of city district of Cincinnati.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
So Pearl goes via train. Is that right to Cincinnati
from Indiana?
Speaker 2 (08:09):
That's right?
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Is she by herself? She is by herself, and her
parents are saying that she's hoping to get married, and
that's what this trip is about. And that is not
what other people are saying. They're saying she's going for
an abortion.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
At this point, she told her parents she's going to
visit a friend in Indianapolis, an old school friend, and
she didn't tell them she was even going to Cincinnati.
So at this point they don't know she's pregnant.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
She arrives in Cincinnati, and do these two men were
talking about Alonzo and Scott, the two dental students, do
they meet her at the train station.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
No, they were supposed to meet her, but will Wood
told him she was coming to Cincinnati on Monday, but
they didn't say what train line, what time. Scott Jackson
went to one depot, Lonza Walling went to the other depot.
Neither of them saw. So she is all alone again
in a strange city, and the cab driver takes her
to a hotel, a reasonably christ hotel she can stay.
(09:00):
Next day she gets in touch with Scott Jackson at
his college, you know. He takes her out and she
spends two nights at that hotel. Then on Wednesday, he says,
we're going to take you where the abortion is going
to take place. In his story, Alonzo Walling took her
away to the abortion and he had no idea where
or when it was going to take place. Walling says,
last time he saw her it was with Jackson, and
(09:21):
he never saw her again after Wednesday, but he didn't
have anything to do with it, and that's the story
they stuck with for a year.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
So essentially, according to Pearl Bryan's family, she vanishes. She's
supposed to go to Indianapolis to meet a friend she
we know, actually goes to Cincinnati and then she is
not heard or seen from until when.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
The body was discovered on Saturday of that same week,
and they were very fortunate they were able to identify
it within another week. And that's the first they knew.
The parents knew anything about where she was when the
police came to their door and said, we think your
daughter was murdered Kentucky and we've got a bag of
her clothing, and they identified the clothing as hers.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Well, I mean, how did she end up in Kentucky?
How did that happen?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
It was in the town of Newport, Kentucky, which is
right across the Ohio River from Cincinnati, and it was
about five miles south of the river, in a clearing
in the woods. Unfortunately for the police, a young boy
on his way to work that Saturday morning took a
shortcut through the woods, came to the clearing and found
the decapitated body, and then he ran and told his
boss and that he called the sheriff that it was chaos.
(10:29):
Reporters arrived first. Oh, of course, contaminated the scene, but they,
you know, they didn't have a lot of forensic to
work with.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Anyway, this is February in Kentucky, right when she's discovered.
I can't imagine this is not freezing cold. I wonder
what that discovery must have been like. I guess she
wasn't covered with snow or anything.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
It had rained the night before, okay, so everything was wet,
but it wasn't freezing.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
So a headless corpse, and I'm assuming at some point
do they find the head.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I never find that, Oh gosh. So they didn't know
how they were going to identify her. They started with
assuming that Fort Thomas, which is the army for it
in the town, was within walking distance of the place
where she was found dead. So police assumed that it
was a soldier who did it before, and of course
denied that they actually had the body on display and
anyone could come in and see. And there were some
(11:21):
false identifications. She had a distinctive foot in that the
toes were connected to each other by a web of skin,
and that was how they one way they were able
to eliminate false identifications and also proved to her parents
that yes, this was your daughter.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Okay. I had read that there was suspicion that she
might have been a sex worker, and then that was dispelled, right,
And you also said that she has a distinctive, you know,
physical feature, So I still don't know in eighteen ninety six,
how does that information get from Kentucky to how many
(11:56):
miles away is her family in Indiana? That seems like
isn't a long way?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yeah, it took all day by train?
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Yeah, how does that happen?
Speaker 2 (12:03):
One of the people that came to look at the
body was a shoe dealer named Lewis Pook, and he
could recognize that the boot she wore was distinctive and expensive,
but a very small foot. In fact, it was a
size three, but it was padded with moss, so her
foot was even smaller than that. Wow, And there were
markings on the boot that he could identify as the
manufacturer's mark. Contacted the factory. They directed him to a
(12:26):
shoe store in Greencastle, and that's when they thought, well,
she must have been from there. They also had another clue,
someone who had left their husband in Greencastle and gone
off with the soldier for it, so I thought maybe
it was her. So anyway, they had two reasons to
go to Greencastle. But when they get there, the shoe
store books are all arranged by name rather than date,
(12:46):
and then they had to just go down the list
look for the any shoes sole that were from that
shipment and in that size, and that took all day.
In the meantime, one of the reporters went to the
telegraph office to send the information back to his newspaper,
and the manager of the telegraph office said, you know,
I think it might be Pearlbrian because her brother sent
(13:07):
a telegram to someone in Indianapolis saying asking if his
sister had arrived safely, and the response was she hasn't
arrived and we're not expecting her. Also that he was
a friend of Will Woods and had heard him talk about,
you know, abortion and things like that, and he just
put two and two together and said, maybe that's pear Olbrian.
So they went back to the shoe store and said,
(13:27):
let's see some records for Pearlbrian, and there were the
shoes that she had purchased that last September, and they
went to the family and they identified the clothing. But
it was very fortunate the time that first of all,
that they found the body at all the day after
the murder, because it could have been once yeah. And
then second that the shoe dealer was able to pinpoint
the store. And then the third was that the telegraph
(13:48):
manager could give them her name.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
That is all a stroke I mean, stroke of I
want to say stroke of luck. But it really that
was smart. All of that was very smart. Paul Hole's
an eye on Barry Bones often talked about it's just
like a miracle sometimes when they solve crimes, and this
was just good old fashioned detective work to be able
to identify who. I'm sure the killer or killers did
(14:12):
not know that her shoes and her feet would be
able to identify her. Obviously, they cut off her head
to prevent identification even though she was, you know, more
than a state away. Could they find out from her
body what her cause of death was? I know she's
missing her head.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
No, no, no other marks. There were some defensive marks
on her hands. Okay, Well there were two two ideas.
Ones that she was stabbed in the throat or in
the head before the head was cut off, and the
other was that her head was severed while she was alive.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Oh gosh, why do they think that before?
Speaker 2 (14:45):
I think because there was so much blood in the
leaves above the body, the artery had spurret it. Then
there was you know, when they get to the trial,
there's some controversy. Was there enough blood to account for
a severed head, and then they had an expert witness
testify for the fact that if they had severed the
headwall alive, it would have taken ten minutes and it
would have been somewhat too much blood to continue after
(15:06):
a certain point, But it was still the most common theory.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
I couched this all the time by saying, just because
coroners in the eighteen hundred say no signs of sexual
assault does not mean there was no sexual assault. But
did they find any obvious signs of sexual assault?
Speaker 2 (15:21):
No, they didn't, okay. In fact, they didn't know she
was pregnant until the autopsy. Five months pregnant.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Five months pregnant, Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
I don't think the abortion drugs would have worked anyway.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
So they identify her, and I can really only imagine
her family's reaction to all of this. Did they know
she was pregnant or No?
Speaker 2 (15:40):
No, they didn't. The only one who knew was will.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Wood, so they're devastated. Obviously they were able to give
them the two names. One was will Wood and the
other was Scott Jackson. Will Wood was the one who
had introduced Pearl to Scott Jackson, and in the parents. Mind,
he was as guilty as even if he wasn't the
killer or the father of the baby. But he had
gone to South Bend, Indiana to visit a relative at
(16:03):
the same time, and Scott Jackson was in Cincinnati. So
the detectives and the sheriff went on to Indianapolis to
arrest will Wood, and then back in Cincinnati they arrested
Scott Jackson, and then he made an off, sort of
a casual remark to a reporter that this roommate Alonzo
Walling might be involved as well. So the reporter went
out and arrested Walling, brought him back to the police station,
(16:25):
and they booked him. It's interesting that none of these
actions involved the police. The investigation was the shoe.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Store telegraph operator. Well, now it's a good time to
talk about citizens arrests. That you were allowed to do that.
I think you had to get it, didn't You have
to get a warrant from a judge and then you
could go out or just anybody could slap cups on you.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
As far as I know, you didn't have to. I
think you had to back it up once you brought
them in. Yeah, it was something that private detectives would
do at the time, but it was often they've stolen
something and you get a private detective arrest the guy
and said they make a deal to get the stolen
item back.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
My first season, one of the other shows tenfold more
wicked I have. We're dealing with a guy who had
an arrest war and in eighteen forty three a family
member needed to catch him. He was on the run
for killing his wife and his child, and the family
member had to go to a judge and secure a warrant.
But the judges said, go get him and bring him back.
You know, we'll make sure that this guy gets thrown
(17:20):
in jail. So the family member went out and finally
had to get him. But it was very confusing. It
just seemed very haphazard. Who could arrest too for what reason?
Speaker 2 (17:30):
The problem comes in when it's crossing state lines, because
they were much more severe about that than we are now. Yeah. Yeah,
and sometimes it'd be just kidnapping.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
And you're talking about three different areas here. So she's
found in Kentucky, the guys are from Cincinnati, and she's
from Indiana. So yeah, it sounds like a jurisdictional mess.
I bet Okay, So we have identified Pearl, and we
know that she was connected to Scott Jackson and her
(17:58):
cousin will Wood. We have no idea who the father was.
It sounded like she might have been involved either involuntarily
or voluntary with either of these men, but were not
sure and I'm assuming they never established, you know, the father,
who the father was of the baby.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Will Wood of course said it was Scott Jackson. Yeah,
Jackson said it was will Wood. Alonza Walling. The roommates
said they didn't know which it was, which was why
they just let's have an abortion. We don't know whose
baby this is.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Oh my gosh. Okay, So now we have three people
under arrest. Right, We've got will Wood, the cousin, We've
got Scott Jackson, and then we got the roommate who
was also a dental student, Alonzo Walling. Are all three
of them under arrest and dragged to where Kentucky or Indiana?
Speaker 2 (18:41):
They're in Cincinnati.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Okay, So they stay in Ohio and they're arrested.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Will Wood was brought by train to Cincinnati and he
was told he was just going to be a witness,
but they had already had a warrant for his arrest
in Cincinnati, and when he's talking about abortion, they said, okay,
we have enough to indict this guy. We're going to
arrest him. And that caused some problems because the sheriff
in Kentucky had promised him he wouldn't be arrested. But
this is Cincinnati. They don't care what the sheriff said
(19:05):
to him. And they had had a warrant from a
judge saying arrested some of it. But the judge said,
book him and then leave him in the custody of
his father if he promises to come back and testify it,
because he had to go on trial too for the
flanned abortion. But I don't know if they had really
enough evidence for that beyond his own statements.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
So the three of them are arrested, And is this
all first degree murderer what they're charged with?
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Jackson and Walling would charge with first degree murderer.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Okay, and this would have, of course resulted in a hanging.
I'm assuming yes. What is the trail that detectives or
the prosecutors can use to prove this because isn't this
just sort of right now? These men saying, well, I
might have slept with her. I might have not I
don't know anything about an abortion right, and this is
all hearsay coming from wheal Wood, and that's it.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
What they really hoped was that they questioned Jackson and
Walling separately and then one would convict the other one
would bring chick just against the other. But they stuck
to their stories. There were some anger between the two
of them, but both of them just said, we didn't
see her after Wednesday, and we don't know what happened
to her. You know. Jackson said I think Walling took her,
and Walling would say I think Jackson took her, but
(20:13):
I don't know. But the police were sure that it
was Scott Jackson, probably with Walling's help. They had eyewitnesses
at a saloon near their house. The three of them
were seen getting into a Surrey, a horse drawn vehicle,
near the bar, and they said, okay, we don't care
what happened earlier in the week. We know on Friday
night she got into this cab with Jackson and Walling,
(20:35):
so they really wanted to get the driver of the cab.
In the meantime, the newspapers are going off on their own.
There was a woman in Indianapolis, who claimed she knew
Pearl from the past, met her at the train station
in Indianapolis and gave her advice on boarding the baby,
and later she claimed she actually gave her an abortion
(20:57):
in Indianapolis, and then she went back to Cincinnati and
died in Scott Jackson's apartment. At first they believed her,
but you know, by the second day in prison, her
stories became too wild and they said, no, his contradictor,
she didn't do anything. But then there was another woman
in Cincinnati who was Walling's girlfriend, claimed that Scott Jackson
(21:18):
had told her that he had a girl pregnant in
Greencastle and was going to kill her when she came
to town. And then he sent her letters saying, you know,
I didn't really mean that, but she ended up dying
in my apartment. That was what she told her reporter.
The next day, she talked to the police and recanted
the story. She said she was drunk, but she told him.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
That, well, is she doing that to protect her boyfriend,
to protect Alonzo Walling?
Speaker 2 (21:39):
That's what I think.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Yeah, okay, So when you've got these contradictory stories, and
I'm assuming will Woods said, I put her on a
train and that's the last thing I know is that
it right.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
In fact, he did not even driving her to the
train station, even though her parents saw her get into
his carriage.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
With these two men, they have contradictory stories. Do we
have any physical evidence anywhere? Is their blood? Are their tools?
What about the crime scene? What do they think actually happened?
Moving forward?
Speaker 2 (22:08):
They had her clothing because she was she was staying
with Jackson. They were dumping her clothes down sewers and
over the bridge to hide the evidence. But very little
physical evidence. It was all dearsaying pretty much.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
They could not find blood. There was nothing where they
could even identify where this happened.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
There was a pair of pants in Walling's locker that
had mud similar to the scene, but they were Jackson's pants.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
And it doesn't even matter, right, that's nothing, Yeah, it
is nothing. How is Pearl framed in eighteen ninety six newspapers?
(22:55):
This is a woman who is pregnant, she's unweed, she's
going for supposed to and legally abortion. So are they
framing her as a victim or are they blaming her?
What are they saying?
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Definitely a victim?
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Okay, good?
Speaker 2 (23:09):
And she was considered a very nice, proper girl. Her
girlfriends from school from high school states things like she
was too agreeable, too easy to persuade. They were sort
of blaming her innocence.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
So they are sort of framing her as almost like
a martyr in the newspapers at this point. And how
are they framing Scott Jackson and Alonzo Walling just as
horrible predators with you know, degrees in medicine, who are
perfectly capable of not only performing abortions, taking advantage of
young women and then killing them.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
They were as evil as possible.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
What is specifically tying either of these two guys to her,
you know, being murdered and beheaded? Is there anything besides
just this story?
Speaker 2 (23:52):
They know she came to Cincinnati and was seen in
Jackson's company several times. Okay, but again no physical evidence. Okay,
So how does the trial unfold? Are they on trial
at the same time, these two men or is it separate?
They were separated, and that was sort of an important distinction.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
I bet, as it usually is who goes first. Yeah,
the second person usually testifies against the first person, screws
them over, and then the other guy gets a light
scence or no sentence at all.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Didn't happen this time though, because they stuck to their stories.
Some moderation, but Jackson was tried first, and that's really
the one that everyone wanted to see.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Hang, so what happens? Does he ever take the stand?
Speaker 2 (24:30):
He did take the stand. In fact, it was a
couple of unusual things about that. The defense attorney had
no opening statement. He just put Jackson on the stand
and he testified all day, and that the paper had
almost the whole thing verbat him. You know his history,
He had the trouble he had gotten into in New Jersey.
He was a clerk to the Pennsylvania Railroad and had
been involved in robbing money from the till and then
(24:53):
again in Indianapolis when he was arrested for drunkenness in
a brothel on New Year's Eve. But they brought all
that stuff out. The point where the prosecuting attorney is saying,
is this drug testimony or cross examination? Because it seemed
like he was indicting himself. Yeah, and then he also
talked about having sex with.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Pearl, and nobody can prove who the father of this
baby was to begin with. But still he denies having
to do anything with her murder and just points to Alonzo. Right,
is Alonzo testifying at all in Scott's trial?
Speaker 2 (25:27):
No, he didn't testify.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Wow, So we have Scott Jackson who's been on the
stand testifying and he's not saying really that many great things.
Does anybody else testify in this case?
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Well, a lot of people for the prosecution testified, basically
identifying the clothes. Her mother identified the clothes, her sister
identified her clothes. The merchants who sold the clothes identified them.
You know, because there was no head, you can't just
point to it and say, yes, this is Pearl Brian.
They had to really drive home that, yes, this dead
body without a head is Pearl Brian. Someone came in
(25:59):
and claimed to be the driver and he's his testimon
money was very important.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
This is the driver. Remind me of that again.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Who the driver was supposedly took the three of them
from Cincinnati to the murder scene, and he had a
very detailed description of how that went. With Scott Jackson
and pro Brian in the back of the carriage and
he's driving with Alonza Walling holding a pistol to his head.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Oh my gosh, Well, tell me about that story. So
this guy gets on the stand he says, what, I
picked these three people up, two men and one woman,
and the man and the woman get in the cab
and the other guy sits up on the rumble seat
with me.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Yeah. When he first brought the story to the police,
that was wonderful for them. Now we have an unbroken
chain of circumstantial evidence and eyewitness evidence as well, from
the saloon where they were last scene to the place
where she was murdered. But this guy, who was kind
of dicey, had been in trouble in Springfield, Ohio, had
accused someone of robbing from him and was not long
after this indicted for perjury in that case.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Oh gosh.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
The police were totally convinced that this was true, and
the newspapers were scott to go, and sometimes lawmen from
other towns were skeptical as well, and they actually re
enacted the route one night before the trial, where he
would take the cab the same route he had taken
it before, followed by the police and several newspaper carriages.
But it was not a direct route. It was a
(27:16):
very strange route. But he did end up there, so
there was still a lot of doubt about this, but
he was the most important of the witnesses.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
So is he saying that the murder scene was in
the woods where the boy found the headless body.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Yes, they stopped at the road, climbed over the fence.
He said that Pearl looked like she was drugged at
the time.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Were there signs that someone had performed an abortion on
her or attempted to?
Speaker 2 (27:38):
According to the postmodem doctors, there was no attempt.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Huh. What does the prosecutor think actually happened? Both men
were involved. Do they think that this was planned from
the start or was there sort of a discussion where
Pearls said I don't think I want to do this
anymore kind of thing and they snapped.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
They think that she came down for the abortion, or
maybe to ask him to marry her, and he decided
the way out was to kill her. They drove across
the river look out of the woods and cut off
her head. The early indictment actually said Walling held her
down while Jackson cut off her head.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
And who was assuming that? How are we placing Walling
aside from this sketchy cab driver. How else are we
placing Walling at the scene at all.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Well, he was seen getting into the cab okay. Also,
the driver testified that Walling was there, but he had
no connection at all to Pearl, had only met her
one time. Yeah, they had eventually changed the indictment saying
that one of them held her down and one of
them got the head off, because there was really no
way to know who actually did the cutting, but because
of Jackson's connection to Pearl, it was assumed it was her.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
But are Jackson and Walling what are they saying about
the I'm assuming reliable witnesses who say we saw these
guys get into a cab with a woman. Are they denying?
Are they saying it wasn't us?
Speaker 2 (28:56):
The bar people are saying it was Friday night and
Jackson saying no, Tuesday night, which was the last night
he had seen her, and Walling said the same thing.
Interesting that Friday afternoon, Scott Jackson had shaved his beard off.
He'd been to the barbershop and the barber suggested shave
it and he did so he's clean shaven for the
first time since he came to Cincinnati. At the bar
they said, no, he looked the same as every other night.
(29:18):
So it makes a question whether they were right about
the day or not.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Is there anyone else significant who takes the stand in
Scott Jackson's trial.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
His landlady took the stand to say that, to her knowledge,
they were both in their room Friday night.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
What really? So is she their alibi? Are they saying
that's what was happening was they were in their room?
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (29:38):
What a mess, Robert, this story? Okay? So ultimately, is
there anyone else that we need to talk about before
we find out what happens with Scott?
Speaker 2 (29:47):
One other thing that should be mentioned. The driver, whose
name was also Jackson, was the leader of they were
called the Cold Ball Guards. It was a drill team
black men who would do army drills in the park
with the intention someday joining the state militia. And he said, yeah,
we were drilling that night and then I left. Walling
came by and said, who wants to make five dollars
(30:09):
to drive this cab to Kentucky. So the other Jackson
took the job. But Scott Jackson's attorney deposed the members
of the cauld War Guard and they all said, no,
we didn't drill that night because we had a private
meeting that we were court martialing one of our members.
There's say twelve people with sworn depositions saying no, we
didn't drill that night. When it comes to his trial,
(30:30):
the prosecution brings them in one by one, they all testified,
yes we did. They said that they signed the depositions,
and they quitted perjury one way or the other. Well, okay,
that's another thing that the police had the ability to say,
we want you to go and testify in Kentucky, because
there's no way that you could be forced to do
that across state lines. So they probably threatened these people.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
It's just my guess what did the police want them
to say that they were perjuring? Just so that I'm
totally clear, these.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Yes we did drill that night, and that's the extent
of it. I mean, but it was in either or
a situation if they didn't drill that night. The basis
of Jackson's testimony is faulse Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Are we thinking at this point, based on all of
this contradictory evidence, is Scott Jackson being reil roaded or no?
For this murder?
Speaker 2 (31:20):
I think in terms of first degree murder probably yes.
I think if they said said manslaughter they probably could
have convicted him. I think in Scott Jackson's mind he said, well,
we didn't commit first degree murders, so let's not plead
guilty to anything and we'll just be acquitted. Sort of
goes back to the fact these people are all very young.
He was twenty six, Walling.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Was nineteen, Pearl was twenty two.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
I mean, people did age faster in those days in
terms of becoming adults, but they were not sophisticated enough
to really realize how much danger they were in. If
they had said, yes, she died from an abortion, they
would have gone to jail for the abortion instead of
first degree murder.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
So everything closes out. There's contradictory stuff, but it looks
like the prosecutor's case seems to be compelling. And Jackson
did himself no favors as usual by taking the stand.
Most defendants don't do themselves any favors and sort of
incriminates himself. And what ultimately does the jury of all men,
I presume.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Say they found him guilty murder?
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Is this hanging?
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (32:20):
So he is convicted in what mid eighteen ninety six, right?
Speaker 2 (32:24):
It may I believe Walling's trial was right after and
it was almost exactly the same. In fact, they sort
of there are some things that they sort of fine
tuned a little bit. But he was convicted as well.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
So these men are both convicted, both sentenced to hang,
and both continue to deny it. They both say the
other person really did it, but they're not giving any
more context to the other person. Okay.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
They both appealed and the appeals were denied. It's been
almost a year since the convictions. They're preparing to be hanged.
Effect a couple of days before the hanging. That's why
they decided to confess that they together with a doctor
in Bellevue, Kentucky, just right next to Newport. They took
us there for the abortion, and that's when she died
from the drugs. And the doctor said, we can't leave
(33:07):
her here. We've got to do something. We got to
dump her, and they take her to this spot. And
that's another interesting thing is there's no way for Jackson
wanting to know that this spot existed, but it was
known to the people at the fort. They would go
bring their dates there sometimes. Anyway, the doctor takes them
there and the doctor cuts her head off.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
This is what they say, right.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
That's what they say in two separate confessions. However, they're
sitting in the same room.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Why that doesn't make any sense. Why are they after
a year and an appeal has been denied. Why is
this all of a sudden coming up in eighteen ninety
seven to save them from the gallows?
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Hopefully, if nothing else, maybe have more investigation. Because they
mentioned the doctor. They mentioned the druggist that supplied the medicine.
Whilst the confessions became public, the druggist says, oh, yeah,
they came in that night and bought some air gut.
They wanted whiskey as well, but couldn't sell them the whisky,
so we had to mix it with something.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Did they not do a toxic coology report on her,
which would have been something they could have done in
eighteen ninety six. Did they not test her blood for anything?
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Not that I know of.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Well, so tell me what the combination of drugs are.
You've got Jackson and Wallings sitting next to each other
in the police station, are in jail, and they're saying, Okay,
we have this story. We don't want to die at
the gallows. Here's what actually happened. We took pearl to
a doctor. He gave her this mixture of drugs. What
was the mixture that turned out to be from their
(34:29):
point of view, deadly.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
They didn't really know. They said that the doctor injected
her with a clear liquid. They had found cocaine in
the stomach, and which was common for dental students because
they use it for anesthetic. The drugists said they bought
airgun and whiskey. Assuming this is true. Whatever it was,
it was the mixture of the drugs that got her.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
So the cocaine would have been kind of numbing.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Someone else have mentioned chloroform alone. If you overdose, you
could overdose on.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
So the doctor's real, this guy's real, is he denying?
Speaker 2 (35:01):
Yeah? He did. There were rumors early on about this.
He was sort of a nervous character and we'd talk
to himself in the backyard and said, you know, maybe
he did it. I kind of thing. But it was
reported in the newspaper, so it's possible that Jackson and
Walling said, you know, this guy's already on the on
the list, let's accuse him. It was at the insane
asylum and the confessions come out and the doctors say
(35:21):
declared him cured so he could go back and defend himself.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Oh god.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
But then the family denied it. But the drug is
stuck to his story, saying that no, that they sent
me a prescription and I filled it.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Okay, So this doctor got a prescription for iergot so
he wanted a prescription. But if this is somebody who
performs abortions, then this would not have been abnormal for
him to do any way, regardless of this case.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Right. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
So the doctor says, I've never seen this woman. I
didn't do anything, and I certainly didn't cut her head off, right,
And Jackson and Walling say, this is our story, and
this is what we want to this is what we're
going with. What is the reaction?
Speaker 2 (36:00):
They send it to the governor and the governor says,
we don't believe that's true. It contradicts your testimony. They
contradict each other and some of the points and don't
accept it.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
So final appeal denied. And are they both hanged? I'm
assuming they are both hanged.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
By this point, people really think it's just Scott Jackson
and Walling is a co conspirator or just there by
bad luck. And they're trying to get Jackson to say, well,
Walling wasn't there and he didn't do it, so don't
hang him. But Jackson won't do it because in order
to do that, he has to admit, yes, I was
there and killed Pearl Bryant and Walling didn't, and he's
(36:36):
not going to go that far. So he let his
friend hang, whether he's guilty or not.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
Wow, what do you think when it's all said and done.
You've looked at this case more than anybody, What do
you think?
Speaker 2 (36:46):
I think it was a botched abortion, whether the doctor
was involved, or whether it happened in Cincinnati and they
just dumped the body there. There's still contradictory things like
there were defensive marks on her.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Hand, lots of blood, lots.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
And lots of blood. There's so much about Scott. Jackson's
a fast talker, sort of a behind the scenes kind
of guy. Not violent, he was short of stature, not
known to be violent. Boy.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
It only takes one time, though, right about that, then
all of a sudden, you are violent, and this poor woman,
you know, she comes down, she's pregnant. Who knows what
her intention was for getting on that train, whether it
was an abortion or whether it was to beg someone
to marry her. Who knows. We just know she ended
up in Cincinnati when she told her parents she was
(37:31):
going to Indianapolis, and then that is it. Then the
mystery of what happened to her after that is lost
over the past, you know, one hundred and thirty years.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
And the conclusion that I drew is that the main
reason that's so hard to say what really happened is
that everybody lied, So you don't know what to believe. Yeah,
and it's not like maybe part of this and maybe
part of that. No, it's either or almost every story.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
And you said Pearl kept her own counsel. I love
that phrase. I always forget. That's such an old phrase.
Kept her own counsel. And her parents didn't even know
she was pregnant, so we don't have a lot of
information from her. And then you've got all of these
dubious people, including her cousin, a doctor, and a stagecoach operator.
The only reliable people, it seems like, in this case,
(38:16):
you've got prosecutors who are trying to solve this and
under a lot of public pressure, the only reliable people
are the initial you know, people who stepped forward, the
telegraph operator who flagged these messages that just seemed alarming.
You know, the shoe manufacturer who said, boy, this is audits.
The people who were initially able to sound the alarm
(38:37):
about who she was and what the circumstances might have been.
So thank goodness for those people, because if not, this
woman would have ended up in a potter's grave and
would have never been in any way given some sort
of you know, recognition or any sort of you know,
vengeance here right, And.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
If he hadn't found it the first day, as I said,
it might have been months before they on that body,
and then there would be no way to identify her.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
How do you think she is known throughout history? Is
this a well known case? I had heard her name,
but I really didn't know the case until I looked
at your book.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
It's not as well known as I think it should be.
I mean, when it was happening, it was a national story. Yeah,
papers all over the country. I think sometimes history flattens
things in the sense that whole year of turmoil and
controversy is just reduced to the police caught the killers
and they hung them. Here's the driver, and here's the
shoe guy, and so forth. The details are not there
(39:34):
because they were hung. There's no mystery in that particular summary.
You know what I mean you to say, Oh, yeah,
they were as good police work they hung them. Case closed.
I'll not say Lizzie Borden.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Yeah, but I still think there is that mystery. This
woman on her own in some way or the other,
certainly fell prey to predators in one way or the other,
including in her family potentially, and then you know, she
dies a terrible death based on the forensics that we're
(40:04):
talking about, by herself. And there seems to be a
message in there somewhere, and one that shouldn't be forgotten.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Right. There are three murder ballads about the case, where
it's sort of a morality play, a cautionary tale. Watch
Out Who You Trust.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
If you love historical true crime stories, check out the
audio versions of my books The Ghost Club, All That
Is Wicked, and American Sherlock. This has been an exactly
right production. Our senior producer is Alexis a Morosi. Our
associate producer is Christina Chamberlain. This episode was mixed by
John Bradley. Curtis Heath is our composer. Artwork by Nick Toga.
(40:53):
Executive produced by Georgia Hartstark, Karen Kilgarriff, and Danielle Kramer.
Follow Wicked Words on Instagram and Facebook at tenfold more
Wicked and on Twitter at tenfold more. And if you
know of a historical crime that could use some attention
from the crew at tenfold more Wicked, email us at
info at tenfoldmore wicked dot com. We'll also take your
(41:14):
suggestions for true crime authors for Wicked Words
Host
Kate Winkler Dawson
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