Knott's Scary Farm w/ Mike Lund

Ghouls, ghosts, and goblins roam across 160 acres as The Old SwitchAroo podcast host Mike Lund returns to discuss the place where nightmares never end, Knott's Scary Farm!

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Episode Transcript

(00:17):
The greetings and welcome to a very special Halloween themed
episode of the Wild Mouse Podcast.
I am your host Taylor Bartle andI am joined once again by the Co
host of the old Switch a Roo podcast, Mike Lund.
Welcome back, Mike. I am glad to be here.

(00:40):
It's a pleasure to come back andto slowly work my way through
what Southern California has to offer.
Yeah, this was a subject that you you emailed me and said you
were looking to talk about this one specifically for the
Halloween season. It is the the only one of the, I
guess you could say the big three Halloween parties going on

(01:00):
in Southern California if you include, you know, the Oogie
Boogie Bash and Halloween HorrorNights at Universal Studios.
And this is the only one of those three that I haven't been
to. It is not scary Farm.
Yeah, I think I'd probably put Magic Mountain's Fright Fest in
there as well, but. That's, I haven't been to that

(01:21):
one either. So yeah.
But this definitely is, I think I think it's the top 1, and I
think Knott's, Knott's Berry Farm and Knott's, Knott's Berry
Farm, not quite as much. But Knott's Berry Farm, I think
it's overlooked. It's very overshadowed by being
just down the road from Disneyland.

(01:41):
And so I think there's a lot of that that it has gotten easily
forgot, sort of overlooked. There's a lot about it that I
did not realize that it's more of a trend setter which will
come up with this as well. Sorry if I kind of I'll give a
brief explanation of what Knott's Berry Farm is.
Yeah, sure. So Knott's Berry Farm is a theme

(02:05):
park that started off exactly iswhat it name, it's name says
1920s. It was a Berry farm that was
selling products and you into the 30's, the depression, they
started selling fried chicken, which has remained a staple of
it since then. And then the lines for basically
the food were so long they started building in attractions

(02:29):
to keep people entertained. And so by like 19401941, they
started actually putting in additional things and building
attractions. And as it slowly developed into
a park in a pre Disney era, it was this idea of, well we have
all these people now we can start setting up contracts with

(02:50):
people to be like, you want to come in and operate something
and give us a cut, which is verydifferent from how we think
about theme parks, especially nowadays.
Yeah, that's more like a like a State Fair or something.
Yeah. And I, I think it was at one
point called like a summer long State Fair.
So it's sort of it built up thatway.
It influenced a lot of Disney. So actually, I believe the first

(03:15):
place to do the idea of having aride where you don't see how
long the line is that you kind of go in and it's sort of a
hidden line was the Calico Mine train at Knotts, which is a
thing that then Disney saw. And it was like, well, we're
going to do that. And certainly growing up in
Southern California, because it was near Disney, it always kind

(03:39):
of felt like a second rate thingcompared to Disney.
And gradually a lot of it, I've developed a much bigger
appreciation because I've realized, oh, this did a lot of
stuff 1st. And so that kind of leads us
right into our topic for today, which is that it's often cited
as the first theme park to really just do a full Halloween

(04:04):
kind of event when it started doing Knott's Scary Farm in
1973. Yeah, I've got some some notes
about the kind of creation of it.
And it's it's interesting because like you said, in 1973
there was a late night TV horrorhost think like a Svenguli or an
Elvira or like one of those kindof characters named Sinister

(04:26):
Seymour, played by a guy named Larry Vinson.
And he booked a live appearance at Knott's Berry Farm for the
Halloween season. And in September of that year,
Bill Hollingshead and Gary Salisbury, who worked for the
marketing team at Knotts, decided, hey, why don't we just
build a whole event around this live show?

(04:48):
And that's how the first Knotts Scary Farm, or at the time it
was called, Knotts Halloween Haunt, was born.
Yeah. And I think one of the
interesting sort of ideas that got attached to that was the guy
who who had designed and ran, built and ran the mine train,

(05:08):
which was Bud Hurlbut. I don't think I'm saying that
right? Basically it figured like just
putting up like some decorationswas not enough.
And so he basically just put on a gorilla suit and scared people
on the train as sort. So we massively influential from

(05:31):
a relatively small effect. In fact, he he then went and
created his own theme park in Southern California.
Kind of. Yeah.
Castle Park, which is about an hour east of LA.
OK, never. Heard of that, Is it?
Is it good? It's got a few roller coasters.
It actually does its own Halloween thing at this point.

(05:52):
It's interesting to check out once having been to all the
other stuff in Southern California once or twice, but
it's not, it doesn't have a it. It feels small compared to a lot
of the other stuff in California.
It's not that upper tier. No, but it's it it, it was
better than I'd expect I'd expected it to be.

(06:12):
OK. So, yeah, I mean, still to this
day they have live actors in therides for Knott's Scary Farm,
which I think is like, I don't think any other park does that.
I am thinking which other a lot really don't.
It's certainly very difficult. Like even with that you can

(06:34):
actually see that they're wired into their positions for safety
sake at this point. But yeah, it is kind of tough to
to think of somewhere else that had some that has something
similar. Yeah, because like, I mean,
Disney has the overlays on the rides, obviously the Nightmare
Before Christmas overlay we all know about and they have, you

(06:54):
know, other rides where they'll do certain decorations and
stuff. And but like there, there's no
live actors in the rides and Universal, the all the live
actors are in the mazes. There's none actually in the
rides themselves, so. Yeah, no, you you really would
like you could go back to the early, early Haunted Mansion, I
think had it briefly toyed around with having someone in a

(07:17):
suit of armor on it. Yeah, but I think that was
before it even opened. I think that was something they
toyed with but never actually went through with.
Yeah. So you, you definitely have to
go back far and sort of find it.And I think with knots, I think
that reflects some amount of itscommitment towards really

(07:38):
relying on skill of performers. Because you have you have people
that are on the ride or around the ride a little bit to scare
people. You've got the mazes, which
we'll come back around to, and then you have the idea of the
walk arounds of the people that are in costume that are able to

(07:59):
kind of go out and scare people,which other places do as well.
And I think with knots, the story is that initially when
they initially started that one of its themed areas is a ghost
town. And I think it was in that area,
they kind of just had some roomswhere there's windows.
And the idea was that, well, OK,we'll put some people in costume
in the in these so these rooms. So as people are walking by,

(08:19):
they'll just kind of see these sort of scary sort of scenes.
And the story goes that they were sort of assigning people
and they didn't have like, the right key for one of the rooms.
So they got down to like, OK, we're out of rooms.
You just go out into the crowd. And then the next night, it was
no one's going in rooms, everybody in the crowd.

(08:44):
And still at this point, like one of the things that I think
is notable from the attending side of things is always feels
like Knotts is very heavy on prosthetics and make it rather
than masks. And where that becomes very
significant, I go to a ton of Halloween events.

(09:06):
So I've probably been to honestly a couple dozen at least
different haunts of various scales.
Generally the Southern California area.
I went to a lot when I was in Tennessee as well.
So I've been to a lot of these. And usually what you will have
is they'll often have just like people in masks and you're kind

(09:31):
of limited to them doing things like yelling or snarling or
shaking a can or something, something to try to to try to
scare people. Knots can certainly do that.
But knots, because they really rely on the performers, and I
think because it's developed thereputation and has, it pulls

(09:52):
people in and they keep coming back.
You can get so much more out of someone who's in in makeup or
prosthetics because they can talk, they can communicate, they
can erode people on a much deeper level than just scaring
someone with shock. Yeah, and they can make, you

(10:12):
know, facial expressions. They can have like a big creepy
smile or, you know, have creepy eyes or something that you can
see. Whereas a mask might, you know,
the eyes would be sunk deep in the mask and you might not be
able to see them. So yeah, the especially the, you
know, in the the scare zones, not so much in the rides.
The rides are usually just kind of masked because they're just
popping out and it's a real quick thing.

(10:34):
But the very first knots, like Isaid, Halloween Haunt at the
time was three days long. October 26th through the 28th,
1973. The tickets sold out before the
event even began because ticketswere $4.00.
Just for reference, tickets thisyear start at $64.

(10:54):
They're mostly The first one waslike it said it was built around
this show with Sinister a Seymour and so it was very much
focused on live entertainment. There was and then like we were
saying that the scare actors there was monsters.
Like you said, the ghost town area was a big region and then

(11:18):
on Calico mine train or mine ride, Timber mountain log ride
and the now defunct haunted shack were like the big maze,
you know, quote UN quote rides. Calico mine ride was rethemed as
the ghost way express. Timber mountain log ride was
rethemed as Satan sawmill and the haunted shack, which it's

(11:38):
already the haunted shack. So it's funny that they had to
retheme it, but it was Monster Maze maybe?
It wouldn't be the only place inOrange County, California that
rethemes a Halloween thing at Halloween.
So that's true, yeah. In 1976, they introduced a show
called The Hanging, which this is something you told me about,

(12:00):
and it was a public execution show.
Basically. The show introduced the
character in the early 1980s named Sarah Marshall, who was
the green witch, and this has kind of become part of Knott's
Scary Farm mythology ever since.In the show, Marshall was
sentenced to death, but just as the noose began to tighten
around her neck, she would mysteriously disappear and curse

(12:23):
the whole town. Hence why there are monsters and
ghosts and goblins and ghouls roaming around the park.
In 2019, they debuted Origins, The Curse of Calico, which
picked up Sarah Marshall's story, and it picks up right
after the failed hanging. And the this is still like one

(12:43):
of the more popular mazes. It's still it's around for this
year too, so the the Green Witchis still a big part of the
Knott's Scary Farm lore. They introduced the first stand
alone maze in 1977 called 10 Chilling Chambers.
Do you know anything about 10 Chilling Chambers because I
could not find any information on it.
I don't know too much other thanI they brought something back to

(13:07):
be a heavy reference to that. When they did the 50th in 2023.
They really tried to do a lot ofcallbacks to everything
previous. I think the biggest thing about
that that still holds up really was that it was the decision to
have. I think that was the decision to
have a sort of a building that was its own.

(13:30):
This is a this is just meant to be a maze for the Halloween
stuff really. Right, Yeah, It wasn't a re
theme of anything else. Yeah, it wasn't.
Or other places especially, it'll be like, OK, we're we've
redone the queue for a ride thatwe're just going to close for a
month kind of things. Whereas that really was the

(13:51):
Nope, this is it's a for as a theme park.
We are making this part of what we will just use for Halloween.
Right. But yeah, like I said, I could
not find any information on 10 chilling chambers.
I don't know what exactly it consisted of other than I assume
10 chilling chambers. One hoax.
Seems like a safe bet. In 1981, things really kind of

(14:12):
started to take off and they started adding celebrities to
the mix. Elvira joined, which seems like
a natural progression, but also Weird Al somehow became part of
the cast. Yeah, which I'm not sure how on
Weird Al was there, but at the time I started going frequently
would have been mid 2000s and was there almost every year.

(14:36):
And it was a handful of years before we had a night that we
just well we don't have anythingelse to do.
We've gotten through everything.Let's go check out this show.
And we had thought, like, to be fair to them, Elvira is in the
name. But also like, I just presume
that was a licensed deal. Like we we had just figured

(14:56):
like, yeah, like they've contracted a deal to use
likeness in the name and stuff. We'll go check it out.
And we're part way through the show and the friend I'm there
with, we're just not. Wait a minute, That's actually
her. That's Cassandra Peterson, Yeah.
Yeah, it's like they they actually have Cassandra
Peterson. We need to come to this show
more often. It's like I would have been at

(15:19):
the show a lot more if I knew they actually had her.
I just presumed it was they werecasting someone else for it.
Yeah, no, apparently Cassandra Peterson was a a fairly
prominent part of all of the Halloween Haunt events up until
2001. Yeah, and she continued to do
stuff for at least a chunk afterthat, because this probably
would have been around 2008 or so.

(15:40):
It was when I realized that she was there.
Yeah, apparently went once Knott's Berry Farm sold, which I
think was sold to Cedar Point. 1st or but it was definitely
that for I think all through that time period that's, you
know, through like the 2000s. They wanted to go in a more
family friendly direction and sothat's why Elvira was let out of

(16:04):
her contract at that time. Also in the 80's, the hanging
turned into kind of more what itis kind of right now, which is a
parody of pop culture events. Not so much the witch, you know,
not so much the whole kind of dark and spooky.
They wanted to make it more light.
I wonder how much they were inspired by the Bill and Ted
show that was going on at Universal Studios.

(16:26):
Yeah, the two, the two were bothvery similar.
It was an interesting thing actually in my mind, sort of the
three heavy Halloween things in Southern California that are
Halloween in a scary direction were always Universal Knots and
Magic Mountain. And it was always interesting
that magic Mountain would go forscary, but they would entire

(16:49):
they really wouldn't go towards comedy and they certainly
wouldn't go towards what I thinkof as more edgy or provocative
stuff. Whereas for a solid stretch you
had the hanging at knots, which very much was took on the
identity of a will offend everybody kind of thing.

(17:12):
And then Bill and Ted's at Universal did the same thing,
the same pop pop culture thing and Universal also had would
turn their water will show into slaughter world.
Which was? Basically same stunt show but
now with fake blood and sex jokes.
So fun. Upgrade.

(17:32):
Yeah, sure. Yeah, so both, both both
Universal and Knotts very much had this extra tone to them in a
way that Magic Mountain would bemy local park didn't have.
And it was interesting to be like, it's interesting which
things they were willing to do. Yeah, this is around the time
when Knotts really started to kind of move away from the

(17:52):
really dark horror and kind of move into more of a black comedy
kind of idea. But a lot of the mazes and
attractions were still pretty dark, like when 1.
Notable 1 was the The Terror of London, which was all based
around Jack the Ripper. That was a.
Fun. That's another interesting thing
that they had and I, I don't know if they still have them to

(18:12):
this day, but a lot of like historical kind of horror mazes.
Yeah, I think one of the distinctions between Nazi
universal, like not turn this ina double featurey kind of thing,
but the comparison is sort of warranted, is universal really
relies on these are the the properties that we own.

(18:35):
And it's, you know, not necessarily this is the new
stuff coming out, but it's it's always just say these are the
properties we own. They don't do too much that.
It's just we're going to explorean idea.
Like even some of the things that aren't directly their
properties usually are tied to something like they've done and
Alice Cooper maze in the past atUniversal, but it's tied to

(18:57):
something. Whereas Knotts has had some of
that. They had a really weird Beowulf
maze back when that three, that 3D movie came out.
It was very strange. And there's a few other things
in that vein. It feels like usually they've
got like one of these, somethinglike 8 to 12 mazes and like one

(19:19):
or two will be tied to movies. And I think part of this may
also be that it feels like usually they're about a third of
their things are new. So they're always, that puts you
at like a three-year lifespan orso.
Sure. Yeah.
And so they'll have some stuff that's tied to a property, but

(19:40):
very little, most of it is they are having to come up with their
own ideas. And so in that sense, if you can
draw from something that's historical, or if you can draw
from stuff like Edgar Allan Poe,you can start pulling in some
things where you don't have to reinvent everything that you can
borrow from some sort of source material and have something

(20:03):
that's not tied to a movie so you can keep it around for a few
years and doesn't feel out of place.
Yeah, I mean universal just theyjust have more IP.
So of course they're going to use it.
Whereas you know, knots is it's a Berry farm.
It's they they don't, they don'tdeal in IP.
It's important to know the single biggest, like you can
look like Universal and say Dracula came, came out of that

(20:24):
wolf, the wolf man came out of that, The Mummy came out of
that. All these.
You look at Knott's Berry Farm, the biggest thing that came out
of that is literally boysenberries like, like Walter
Knott of Knott's Berry Farm named that and like, oh really?
It's evaded. Yeah.
That's where like they're very big on that.
That's like the two big things to come out of Knott's Berry
Farm in my mind are boysenberries and not scary

(20:46):
farm. Yeah, I also feel like the the
mazes that Universal makes up don't get as much like the the
lines are never as long. It doesn't really get as much
hype. Everyone wants to go to, you
know, the Stranger Things maze. Everyone wants to go to the
House of 1000 Corpses maze. Everyone wants to go to the the

(21:07):
things they know. And I don't know if that really
hurts Knots in, in a way, I think people don't really expect
it from Knots. So it's not so much that people
are going to say I'm going to goto Universal because they have
the US maze instead of going to Knots, who has, you know, the
Jack the Ripper maze or whatever.
Yeah, I, I think a lot of it people know what they're going

(21:27):
to get out of knots and the quality of that is enough that I
think they don't need to rely onit.
And then it just becomes what can, what works for them.
And because if you don't mind sticking with an idea like this
is actually a great example of this was they actually had one
where they kind of changed it upover a couple years was we had

(21:50):
there, there was a maze called trick or treat, and it was just
sort of a general Halloween themed thing going through a
house. There's a witch involved.
And I believe it's that the first year I went through that,
like the lights were on and everything like you would expect
a place to have. And it may be doing this in the
wrong order. They may have done this, swapped

(22:10):
the order of these, but I've gone to it.
Both were, it was just a regular, you're going through
this house and the lights are onand everything.
It's like a normal maze. And then I went through it where
when you entered, they gave you a flashlight and the lights were
off for the whole thing. And the flashlights were had

(22:31):
some sort of like RFID technology.
So you're given this flashlight and as you're going through,
you're able to shine it around and see stuff, all that at a
certain point it switches over to a black light and there's
like things written on the wall and you go through another room
like that. And then right at the end, it
starts to flicker and starts to go out as you're as you're

(22:57):
approaching like the final rumors too, which so you think
your light's going out until younotice everybody's is doing
that. That's super cool.
It was awesome. Man, so it was not had no, like
it wasn't affiliated with the movie trick or treat in any way.
It was just OK. That's that's such a great idea
though. Yeah.

(23:18):
And I think so many, the ones they've done, because they are
fairly freed, allows them to kind of come up with their own
ideas and then those ideas really can stick around.
I think they had one that was like the doll factory, which
wasn't tied to anything beyond just dolls or creepy and I was

(23:38):
around for and one felt like it was around for a bit more than
average and was just really goodand really popular.
So like those develop their own sense of popularity.
I think a lot of them do. And some of the areas have
developed their own. The walk arounds have developed
their own themes that have lasted longer.
Sort of. Their midway area is clowns.

(24:00):
Sure, yeah. Gotta have glass.
Yeah. And it's incredible to be going
through there. And just because it's even
though, you know, they're selling out for the Halloween
stuff, they're not the. The crowds are not as
distributed as they would be during the day.
So back there ends up fairly empty in spots.
Not as though you're not the only one, but you're not in a

(24:22):
crowd, which has meant like, I've been going through there
and then suddenly you see one person running and there was a
one person, one clown behind, behind her on a tricycle chasing
her. And as she's running through,
other clowns are coming out and joining the chase.

(24:42):
Oh nice. And so by the by, like from when
when I first saw her, I was like1.
And by the time she left our vision, it was like 7.
And since they're clowns, they can talk and stuff.
So it's like I, the last time I was there, we were on our way
out and a friend's wife had started to make a comment of,

(25:03):
you know, there weren't that many people walking around in
here this year. And what she had not noticed was
right behind her was one of the clowns had kind of come up on
us. And as soon as she said that,
the clown just goes out and justlike, would you like to make a
complaint about that? And we're like right on the way

(25:23):
out. I.
Think that. One of the other more recent
times, one of them came up behind me while I was talking to
people. We were waiting for part of the
group to get back from the restroom, and I kind of did have
the like as I'm talking, I gestured.
I moved a hand back and just kind of felt my hand hit
something. And it's just like he's right
behind me, isn't he? And that's where all, like a lot

(25:45):
of the sliders and stilt walkersand stuff are too, right?
They'll do a little bit in the in there.
I think of the sliders more in their the ghost town area.
OK. Which has this incredible
theming of ghost town theme knots is very big on fog
machines to a level that I don'tthink I've seen anyone anywhere

(26:08):
else ever do just about. And so there are areas where
kind of like the only thing you kind of will see in spots will
be like the sparks of that through the fog and whatever
light up stuff people are wearing.
They have the sliders. They are really good.

(26:28):
I think I've I've been there early in the season or when the
season goes far enough past Halloween, but they're still
open. But a lot of people kind of
forget about Halloween things assoon as it hits November and
just watch them doing stuff likesetting up trash cans and seeing
how if they can do a long slide and get between the trash cans,

(26:49):
which is super neat. Yeah, so in the 80s, this is
they kind of expanded more from just mazes into what is now
called the scare zones. These areas were transformed
into these nightmarish landscapes populated by menacing
creatures and eerie characters, like you said, clowns or ghosts.

(27:11):
Visitors were exposed to unexpected scares as they
wandered through haunted streets, creepy forests and
ghostly graveyards. So you were no longer safe when
you weren't in a maze. You are now anywhere you are in
the park, you are prone to getting scared.
Yeah. And like the ghost town area,
they've cut back the hours on it, but it has like a restaurant

(27:33):
with like some outdoor seating that overlooks the scare zone.
And it was great because you could just go out there and eat
and you just kind of be look overlooking people being scared
the whole time and actually was eating there.
And then had one of the scare actors steal the ketchup from

(27:55):
our table. And there with a friend of mine,
my friend Larry, who's very big into these and also very big
into ketchup. And so like when they were
trying to mess with us, it was like, do not take the ketchup.
And so he took the ketchup, of course.
And then like an hour later, we're going by the restaurant

(28:18):
and he's a more outgoing person than me.
So we're going by and we see that same scare actor and my
friend makes kind of like out becareful if he'll steal your
ketchup. And the scare actor grabs at the
ketchup from one of the tables, runs over to him, hands him the
ketchup and then starts yelling a thief and pointing at him.
And then just goes, he doesn't know what to do with it.

(28:39):
How embarrassing. Meanwhile, me and my friend's
son are both just doubled up in laughter.
Yeah. Because it's like you started a
fight and you you can't win this.
Yeah, you are vastly outnumbered.
First of all, that's hilarious. Yeah.
And it's just that it's the level of personality that it

(28:59):
really, it reflects a lot of talent to have them be that
good. Yeah, I know there's a, there's
this one clown that I see on Instagram and stuff all the time
and she has like 2 voices. She'll bounce back and forth.
One of them, you know, it's likea very cute, sweet kind of
voice. Then she has this like death
growl. There's there's a video I

(29:20):
remember seeing multiple times, I think it was either last year
or the year before of someone tying their shoes and she would
like come up and be like, you know, giving them advice, loop,
swoop and pull and all this. Then it's just like.
Yeah, it's, it's interesting howsome of those become their own
personalities. My brother had worked Magic
Mountain for their for their Halloween stuff and a couple of

(29:43):
the clowns are kind of developedenough of their own character to
be able to kind of take them elsewhere for events, Heckles
and Twitch. Good names, yeah.
Yeah. It seems like those actors get
pretty much free range to do a lot of stuff.
They they get a lot and it definitely it it can pay off

(30:04):
because some of what they do both walk around and some of the
ones they're amazed that are really good can like.
I think it's because they know that's how you get get some of
the most memorable things like the best, the best scare I have
ever seen at any event ever. Was it not actually in this?

(30:25):
Was actually this started in oneof the mazes is there's an area
where where just for the Halloween stuff, they kind of
move out a fence. So you're kind of into an area
that's not normally in the park because it's basically
additional warehouses that are all haunts and for crowd control

(30:46):
for years there was 2 mazes thatwere one after the other.
You go into one building as soonas you came out of that
building, you go into the secondone.
Just it was easier to only have one, one line.
And so it was the first one was like a prison theme, sort of

(31:10):
generic ish. And the second might have been
to the tooth fairy that year. We're going through the first
one. And with haunts like this,
there's so many people going through that you're pretty much
going through in a single file line.
And I draw that distinction because when you go to a lot of
smaller things, I guess, or technically fancier things,

(31:34):
you'll get into situations whereit's like, OK, no, you're in a
group and there's this many people in the group and that's
it. Right.
And that kind of allows them to stage things a little bit
differently. But if it's just a constant line
of people, you know, they're allkind of just scare someone
reset, scare someone reset kind of patterns.
There was someone who to me her her looked at energy has always

(32:00):
just kind of reminded me of Magenta from Rocky Horror but
with black hair but still like the hair is large.
She was fairly tall and solid and intimid, able to be
intimidating. OK.
And I don't know what set this guy off, but a guy ahead of us,

(32:20):
she starts talking to and whispering to and like we're in
the part of the prison supposed to be at the prison showers.
And I, I know I overheard her say something about showering
and whatever happened there hit like he started to kind of bolt
and like, we're in a single fileline, there's only so much you

(32:41):
can do. And he's there with a couple
couple other people. And she has clearly identified
that she has found someone who is terrified.
Yeah, that's her victim. Yeah.
And so she's, you know, clearly having an effect.
And as we're going room to room and winding around, she

(33:04):
reappears because she knows the shortcuts of the maze.
Yeah, right. And so she keeps moving ahead to
continue to scare him and like he's running back past us and
then he's running back up as as she comes in at different
directions. At one point he took his sweater
off to hopefully not be recognized.

(33:25):
However, as soon as he came around the corner and saw her,
he panicked again. So it was real.
Like he didn't play it cool to try to get by, so it didn't
work. So we're going through this
whole warehouse of this and he is just being just wrecked.
And we come out of the first building and there's like maybe
like a 30 or 40 foot gap betweenbuildings.

(33:47):
And so we walk out and we just see her scaring him.
And it's, it's set up of you're going to have to head into this
next building. He just ducks under a chain and
takes off rather than go into the next building.
And she just walks after him andjust steps over the chain.
And so it was like, OK, they're gone.

(34:09):
That was entertaining. We go through the next building,
you know, whole, whole maze. So handful of minutes later we
come out of that and I noticed that she's just standing up at
the exit, right, like up againstthe wall.
And I was like, guys, get over here, don't look, she's there.
Wait here for a moment. We're waiting here and we wait a

(34:31):
bit and eventually they come out.
This guy and his friends come out and it's just kind of you
walk out of this building, you have to walk around it and then
walk all the way back out because it's like a building and
a building. So we have a ways back to get
back to everything. And so we're just kind of, so
he's just kind of walking. And she just as soon as he was
out, just starts walking after him.

(34:53):
And then at some point he looks back and notices she's behind
her and he starts walking fasterand she starts walking faster.
And then he's moving up to a jogand she's moving up to a jog and
behind, behind her are his friends trying to keep up with
this. And behind them we are following
now. And she chased him 1/4 of the

(35:15):
way across the park. It was amazing.
That might have been actual damage done to that guy by the
end of this because this is probably all of that combined.
Feels like it was probably on the order of like 1520 minutes
of one person just targeting himand it was incredible.

(35:37):
That's dedication. Yeah, it, it, it, it was
amazing. And it is the kind of thing
we're clearly they didn't mind her following him through a
second maze and then 1/4 of the way across the park and not just
being like, get back in positionand, you know, memorable thing
for him, memorable thing for a lot of other people.

(35:58):
Scarring if nothing. Yeah, scarring for him.
Yeah, absolutely. It makes like it.
Like I said it, it is the best single like scare I have ever
seen because it just kept going.That's amazing.
Yeah. And it's the talents I
appreciate out of that. Yeah, so during the 2000s, this

(36:18):
is when Knotts kind of started collaborating with some of the
famous horror franchises. They introduced a Saw house, a
Texas Chainsaw Massacre house and an Evil Dead house.
So they had all had these mazes that immersed visitors in the
world's of those kind of iconic films.
It didn't really stick around, it seems like.

(36:40):
I don't know how long any of these deals lasted with these
franchises, but by the 20 tens, they were all kind of gone.
Knots was back to doing their own custom things, but in the 20
tens they really started to embrace technology.
They started getting more high tech special effects, more
detailed sets, more sophisticated makeup, and they

(37:02):
also introduced VR, which is a choice.
Yeah. Remember they have had one or
two that have done weirder things on that and I think I've
generally passed. I think they've usually tacked
money onto those where it's likeyou can go through it normally
or for money with this and I'm like, I don't, I paid my money.

(37:24):
Well, yeah, I mean, like, and the last time you were on, we
talked about VR and, you know, doing VR on a roller coaster.
And we were like, that just seems like a hat on a hat.
Yeah. This is kind of the same thing.
Like, yeah, you have these scareactors.
What do you need VR for? Yeah, like if if you wanted to
do a thing of for more money, we'll sweeten the deal.
They had already by the 20 tens they'd already done.

(37:45):
I think by the 20 tens around then they had already they'd
they'd introduced another thing that I am disappointed that they
no longer have, which was the skeleton key.
What is that? It was like basically addition
to lanyard. You'd have like this key, which
was sort of AI think it was combined with their front of the

(38:06):
line big pass. So you would both skip the
lines, but also you would enter through a different room than
everybody else. Oh, interesting.
And so two of the ones they had the year that they did this that
still stick with me. One was sort of a general swamp

(38:27):
voodoo thing. And if you had this special key,
so, and again, because most of this is your single file going
through and I'm that's where like you cannot add too much to
that. Really what they would do is
because there were fewer people coming through this other way,
you could actually do more of a set piece.

(38:48):
And so for the Voodoo 1, you were put in a room and there was
some stuff that happened. One thing led to another and you
were you had to hide in coffins that were up against the walls
and then they opened the doors behind you.
So you're hiding in this coffin and then the wall behind you is
gone. And that would and when you come
out through that, then you wouldbe fed in to the mate.

(39:13):
The more standard thing. They also had a sort of dark
carnival thing and the skeleton key started you off with a
Seance, which did use some technology in terms of screens
and stuff, but it was like they had you sit or stand around a

(39:34):
table and they had a little bit of an extra thing to it.
So it was a neat way for them toadd these extra set pieces for
extra money, but do something that they couldn't do, they
couldn't, that they couldn't scale that up because you just
couldn't get enough people through fast enough normally.
Yeah. And so how long did that last?
It lasted a couple years and I liked it when they had it and

(39:57):
then so they still have the front of the line stuff but they
no longer have that attached to it and you don't even get those
keys anymore unless you buy themseparately.
Of course. Like it was part, it had been
part of that pass. And so it was neat when it was,
it was very neat for a bit. Like I'd love to see him bring

(40:18):
that back because it was an interesting way to set up a
little bit more and they could add a little bit of storytelling
to those because you would have dialogue and sometimes more
scripted interaction. So you think they got rid of it
just because it was like a budgetary thing?
Like a there weren't enough people paying the extra to
justify the added sets and addedactors or.

(40:40):
I'm not even sure it it may havejust been, it was an extra like
it could have actually been thatthere was too many people and
they were still having problems getting people through.
Yeah, that's true. That if they'd rather just be
able to sell more, you don't want them to then be like, well
I paid for the thing for the front of the line and now I'm
still stuck in lines. Yeah, that's fair.

(41:00):
But yeah, it's it's a little bitjust comes into throughput like
they gradually whittled down oneof the mazes actually did have a
show as a start for a while thatit was supposed to be like a
paranormal investigation going on.
Was that paranormal ink? Was that that one?
That sounds right, yeah. OK, Yeah.

(41:21):
And it was, it was really cool because they would load you all
in and they, it was supposed to be like, oh, we're doing this
thing. And then it was just, you know,
things go horribly wrong. And in that one, like they
dropped, they dropped a sheet down through the crowd and would
just split the crowd into two groups that you'd then go
through different doors that would open up.

(41:42):
And like part of my group was onthe wrong side of that sheet.
And it was very much like, wherethe heck did they go?
It's like, OK, well, we'll, we will hopefully see them later.
It was a cool intro show, but over time they sort of wound
that down a bit. So I think they've they were
moving more towards they'll do stuff that'll be fancier for

(42:04):
like 1 year for one maze rather than the other thing really was
the idea of every maze has theirown special room kind of thing
to justify it. OK, huh.
Well, in the 20 tens, in addition to adding all this VR
and extra technology, they also introduced the idea of basically
having some of these mazes be escape rooms.

(42:25):
There was one called Trapped, which was an immersive and
interactive maze, and you had tosolve puzzles and physical
challenges and navigate through intense and unsettling
environments in order to get your way out.
Did you ever do any of these ones?
I didn't do that one. One of the other things they
did, I think it didn't do that. One of the things they did also
do was they had sort of a zombies light gun thing.

(42:49):
OK. We're get you were given rifles
and the idea was that the zombies would try to approach
you and if you shot them like the they had collars that would
like light up indicating they were hit and they're supposed to
stop or something. And it somehow kept score and I
don't fully trust how it worked.So you'd go through and decently

(43:11):
large groups. And so you have like a whole
like little military drill instructor that would give you
the instructions before you wentout there kind of stuff.
So that one I did do, but it wastricky even when they had it
because it would just, it was a capacity thing that could only
get people so many people. Through, sure, yeah.
But so it's basically like zombie laser tag pretty much.

(43:34):
I mean, that's cool. It's it's a, you know, a new
twist on just having a zombie maze where zombies just kind of
popping out. Now you, now you're armed and
you can defend yourself. Yeah, and it, it did work fairly
well. I've I've been to a couple
things that have explored that as a concept.
I've done zombie paintball at two different places, one where
it was like you're the one that I didn't in California.

(43:56):
That was just that. I actually, I can't remember if
it was that actually may have still been laser based.
There's one I did in Tennessee that was zombie paintball from a
trailer that like it was, it wasa hayride.
Yeah, I was. Just going to say somewhere in
California, I know there's like a haunted hayride that has, I
believe it's paintball. Yeah, there's one in Tennessee

(44:17):
that does that. And it is the kind of thing
where it's like, I think so thatpeople don't complain they
didn't get to shoot anything. There's several spots like, oh,
the trailer has pulled up in front of a barn and there's just
a guy in like 8 inches of padding everywhere as a zombie
just standing there and say, OK,like I'm not wasting my time for
this. But there was also parts were
coming along and someone comes running out of a Creek and like

(44:37):
that's why I'm here. I'm here.
Like I may not hit him, but I that's the experience that I'm
after, not just the I got to sayI shot someone part of it.
Well, yeah, you might. At that point it might as well
just be scarecrows or like cardboard cutouts or something.
Yeah, yeah, there's no fun in that.
But they just the, well, they just ran out of a Creek, so we
opened fire. That's more of the experience.

(44:59):
But yeah, so that. So Knotts has definitely done
that. And it's just you can only get,
you can't get people through as quickly.
And Knotts has these giant crowds, like before it opens,
you'll just have everybody in front of the gate waiting.
And then they'll gradually startto have the scare actors
infiltrate the crowd, which is its own great fun up until the

(45:21):
gate actually opens to let to let you into the rest of the
park. Yeah, I've always liked going to
like, you know, local smaller haunted houses and stuff.
And I always love when there's people working the lines and
whatnot. I worked at one when I was in
high school and that that was always my favorite was getting
to work the lines. Yeah, no, that's, I think
anything that allows the scare actor to have enough time to

(45:44):
really interact. It was what's notable and where
they're allowed to do that. I mean, it's why the walk
arounds are considered sort of one of the more prestige
positions, right? Like, I know, I know it was a
magic mountain, so that there was a greater prestige because
you had to be good at that. Sure.
Yeah, you got to be kind of an actor.

(46:06):
Yeah, it's like my my brother did that.
And actually he also did community theater and stuff.
There you go. But it meant that there was a
whole personality to it. It was right to go to that
because he'd do stuff like come by, grab my drink, grab my soda,
take a drink and continue walking.
And you could watch everybody around me just suddenly have

(46:26):
their idea that they were safe shatter.
Because it was like, I didn't know they could do that.
Right. Yeah, It's like, well, they
can't, but it's my brother, But you don't know that, so.
Yeah, they don't know that. So we're works great.
So yeah, there's a whole lot of that and a lot of small like it.
I think for smaller places it's what makes makes or breaks them.

(46:49):
Do you have good people working yet?
And some of the best smaller things happen.
Someone here is really good at this.
Whereas for Nos, you just kind of see that separate out into
who's doing the walk arounds andthose really have to do a lot.
Whereas in the mazes can be a lot more hit or miss because it
really depends on how good they are.

(47:11):
And I've seen situations where they're really good at reading
people and knowing who to go after.
And then the flip side, they hada maze for years.
It was called corn stalkers. And there's a bit that was just
like supposed to be the look of like a field of corn and just

(47:32):
corn husks and everything. And I had basically made eye
contact with someone who was in entirely covered in the corn,
corn husks and has like this much of a gap for their eyes.
And it was like, I have spotted you.
Do not scare me, scare the guy behind me who doesn't know

(47:52):
you're there. Right.
And it was this like, you shouldhave read this better because
I'm like the person behind me would have screamed.
Yeah, this. But so they went after you.
They went after me and it was like you're not going to which I
don't wrapped these anyways. There's definitely a part that's
like I'm there for a lot of the the screaming of others is

(48:16):
definitely a big part of it for me, but also the artistry of it.
And it was just like, why did you waste this on me?
Yeah. It's partially, partially why I
try to get my wife to go to these things, because she stares
really well, which is also why she doesn't like to go to these
things. Knots.
Knots was rough for her. We I think the first one we did

(48:42):
actually it was the the lights go out on you thing and she did
not do well with that. So and that was like the first
one and she was nearly to be like, I'm done now.
But it's like things like, and Ithink anyone that goes to
Halloween stuff may remember when this rolled out, especially
in LA, it rolled out everywhere with the same year was because a

(49:03):
lot of a lot of the effects are basically coming from some like
the stuff like the trade shows, like at this point in time, we
just had Midsummer scream in Long Beach.
And one of the things is a lot of the haunts have presences
there, at least for California, but it's also people that have
developed technology and they'relike, this is a technology you

(49:23):
can use to scare people or at least to build the atmosphere
when you're scaring people. And one of the things that came
out about 10 years ago, you know, was the combination of
using a fog machine and like a laser projector thing.

(49:46):
To. To project a a plane of light,
with the idea being to create the effect of the surface of
water. And so I've seen it used three
different ways. One way is you actually give the
idea that everybody's underwaterby putting it up at like roof

(50:09):
level, which is an interesting thing.
I've only like, I've only seen avideo of that.
Knots actually use this below the step below like a bridge
that they put foot bridge that they put in.
So to get the idea that you're walking over water for a maze
called The Deep, which was some comment, I don't think they knew

(50:29):
what was going on with that one.It was kind of a combination of
it's called the Deep because we're doing mining and we're in
tunnels and stuff, but then alsothere's ships later and I don't
think. That's interesting.
It's like this title works for either concept.
But not both. But I don't know the the

(50:50):
concepts don't work with one another.
It's like outside, you know, there's a giant fish, some or
giant shark that someone caught and also evil miners.
I don't, I don't fully get what we're doing here, but OK.
It was it was weird mix. Yeah.
So one of them was as you like, you're approaching the boat,
you're walking over a small bridge and they've given the

(51:13):
illusion that you're going over water by having fog machine like
blue laser. The other thing they would do is
you go into a room and it's projecting at about waist high
as though you're wading through water.
And what it does is it means that no one below that can see
or you, if it's done right, withenough fog, you can't see what's

(51:35):
below the laser lights. And so now anybody that can be
hiding in the bottom 3 feet of the room can just move around
and then pop up and scare people.
Oh, right. It's when it doesn't have
enough, you kind of just see them or if they're not good at
it, like like I would be horrible at it.
I cannot be crouched down and moving well enough.

(51:59):
Like it's like I am bad at that.The people who are good at it
though, you'll see them pop up one spot and then suddenly
they're on the other side of you.
Works really well. And we saw it at some knots,
used it in two separate spots. It was awesome.
It's it's a really cool effect. That year I saw it at about 5
haunts. We'd never seen it before and

(52:21):
then it was just like, it's likeoh wow, this is amazing, I've
never seen this before and when was the next place?
Like, this is still cool, but this is the second time and by
the end of the season it was like, this came out early this
year, didn't it? Yeah, this is the hot new thing.
This is, yeah, this is the hot new thing.
Everyone had it. So Knotts had it in a couple
different spots, but it it was that kind of stuff is what

(52:45):
appeals to me. And so Knotts is really good at
having things that have they're either the good use of
technology or the good use of theming.
They had one that was the idea of vague, vaguely Scooby-doo ish
in a sense. Was kind of like you're going
into a haunted dark ride that I right.
Yeah, I read about this one. Yeah, I think at points it is.

(53:08):
There's parts of that felt very much that they were borrowing
elements of the Haunted Mansion in there, which is not a
surprise in that being just downthe road from Disneyland, there
is a bit of A1 sided tension perhaps which like, did you get

(53:32):
a chance to watch the hanging? Yes.
Yeah, so one of the things you would have noticed in there
then, that was actually part of what I liked about the video I
sent you, which was the 50th anniversary hanging.
So the 1 from 2023 was they called back something they had
done a few years earlier, which was a parody of World of color

(53:56):
of World of Water, which is justa sprinkler and some colored
lights. And it is absolutely incredible.
And there's a longer version of that from the first time they
did it that they called back on the 50th, as well as making fun
of that was the year that Fantasmic's dragon just caught
on fire and then was down. And they are knots already had

(54:20):
that dragon because a previous year was the year where it they
updated the dragon and it wasn'tworking right.
So like that dragon has, that dragon has been in the hanging
at least three separate years asthey've continued to make fun of
it. And so there's all, especially
from Knots, there's always some jabs towards Disney.

(54:43):
It's towards Disneyland at some point in there.
So having a dark ride that is clearly barring a bit from the
Haunted Mansion certainly would check out.
I've made the mistake of wearinga Haunted Mansion shirt to Knots
in the past and I'll be going through mazes and just have
someone jump out and just yell wrong park at me.

(55:06):
Wrong park, asshole. Yeah, I've seen videos of like
the the train robbers and they'll be like, you know, hey,
at least you're not getting robbed by a rodent or something
like that, like. How the train robbers?
There's all kinds of little shots.
But yeah, as of 2023, which likeas you said, was the 50th year
anniversary, Knott's Scary Farm is the largest event of any kind

(55:30):
at any theme park, which is wild.
Apparently Halloween Haunt is, Idon't know if it's still to this
day, but it's still kind of the official event name.
And Knott's Scary Farm is more like, oh, the park transforms
into Knott's Scary Farm for thisevent, but the branding has

(55:50):
really kind of gone away from Halloween Haunt completely, and
now everyone knows it as Knott'sScary Farm.
Yeah, it's. I mean, that's just such a good
name. It is, yeah.
And I mean, you know Knott's Mary Farm for Christmas like
it's everyone loves a pun. Yeah, no.
And it's just, it's just a, it'sa good name.
And it also, it avoids the problem of everybody else, of

(56:12):
almost everybody else's, of keeping track of a name that
doesn't really tie into to the park because you've got
Halloween Horror Nights and Fright Fest.
It's like, OK, they're both alliterative, but neither of
those tie to what they're at. Yeah.
And I mean also, you know, Fright Fest, Fright Night, Fear

(56:36):
Fest, like there's going to be so many similarities in those.
But like, not Scary Farm, you own that.
Yeah, SeaWorld has entered the game recently and they have
Hallow Scream, which is enough that I've been to that multiple
times and I started to go check what it's called because I don't
remember. So yeah, so many of the others

(56:58):
the actually weirdly, because it's sort of non Jason, the only
one that actually came up with agood name on this that's clearly
AI know what that is, is Castle Park, which is where the guy who
helped start this later opened because their thing is Castle
Dark. Yeah.
Which which like solid, I know exactly which one that is.

(57:19):
Yeah, yeah, all the rest blend in.
The only other one that kind of lux like other the other ones
that luck out are just they're unique enough events that their
name is about at yeah, Dark Harbor helps to be like clearly
that's at the water, which is the Queen Mary's.
It's like, OK that name is distinct to that, but so many

(57:40):
others just feel generic Halloween name that you can swap
them, swap them around and no you wouldn't keep track.
But not scary farm works for that.
Yeah, I mean, Oogie Boogie Bash,obviously, you know, Disney has
so much IP they could pick whatever they want, but.
Yeah, I don't I don't count Disney on this because Disney.
What I would love to see Disney do they they won't do it.
I understand they won't do it. What I would love to see Disney

(58:02):
do is start doing a thing like every year there's an Olympics.
Don't bring your kids. We're going to we're going to
see what happens if we go, if wetry to go scary instead of fun.
Halloween. Oh, that would be interesting.
I would it. It's very much inspired by the
stories of that. I think in Florida for Tower of
Terror, there's at one point talks about having that be a

(58:23):
actual hotel you could stay in as well and they could put
effects in the rooms. Oh, that'd be awesome.
Yeah, yeah. It's like, I would love that.
So I'm like, I would love Disneyjust to come up with a policy
like every four years we're actually going to compete with
the other places and see what happens.
Sure. Yeah, why not?

(58:45):
Yeah, like I don't, I mean, especially at this point their
their own prop properties are starting to turn into horror
movies anyway, so you may as well go for it.
I'd love to see what they could do in the actually go try to be
scary part, but until they do that it it's very much in a

(59:07):
separate camp from everything else in my mind.
Yeah, I mean, do they could try it with just like one of those
Disney after dark nights when they do like Grad night or you
know, they just did 90s night orwhatever.
Just have try that once with a with a horror night and see how
that goes. And if it if it goes well then
maybe you can expand it. It'd be.
It'd be so neat. It'd be so easy.

(59:27):
So much of their stuff is already creepy.
It would involve keeping the Haunted Mansion, the actual
Haunted Mansion in Halloween, which would be wonderful,
wouldn't it? Like I I will gladly trade
October for like March or whatever.
Sure, just fine. Push, push Christmas into March.
But let me have Halloween at theHonda Mansion.

(59:49):
I am 100% on board with that. So yeah, I would, I would love
to see them expand that and enter the fray.
But until until they do, they'retheir own.
They're not even attempting the same game that everybody else
is. That's true, yeah.
So yeah, Knott's Scary Farm has grown from three nights back in

(01:00:10):
1973 to this year will be from September 18th to November 1st.
So as of this, the air date of this, it will be going on now if
you want to check it out. Tickets are 6 starting at $64,
up to $200 if you want a all inclusive ticket.
Yeah, which the front, front of the line, it does mean that it's

(01:00:33):
something that for as much as they have, whenever I've gone
there with front of the line, weget through everything and have
time to go back for seconds on the stuff we thought was good.
So like, and that price is probably double what it was like
10 years ago, which is slightly frustrating.
Like the price on that has gone up.
It's still much cheaper than Universal is, I believe is I

(01:00:56):
want to say Universal is still like 100 bucks more from front
of the line or something. It is, damn, it is steep and it
doesn't have as many mazes on that on that count.
So like there, there's a definite gap there and there's
more shows at knots it feels like as well.
But they've still kept live entertainment in a way that

(01:01:17):
other parks haven't just in general and for Halloween.
So it's like it still feels likea very solid bang for your buck
as in terms of like a large event.
Yeah. So if you're going and checking
it out, you know, hit me up on social media, let me know what
you think. Let me know what your favorite
parts are. Mike, thanks for doing this.

(01:01:37):
Thanks for giving me the idea you want to go ahead and plug
your podcast. Yeah, so ordinarily I'm doing a
podcast called The Old Switch, aRoux Gaming Retro with Mike and
Jamo. And the basic premise is my
friend Jamo and I are going through retro games that are

(01:01:57):
available on the Nintendo SwitchOnline catalog that comes with
their subscript, the Nintendo subscription service.
So that's covering games on the NESSNES, Gameboy, Gameboy
Advanced, N64, the Switch 2 has just added the Game Cube.
And then for weird licensing reasons I don't understand
fully, Also a bunch of games from the Sega Genesis.

(01:02:21):
Right. Which is great and does mean
that we are in. We'll have an episode, I guess
should be out before this is ghosts and goblins and ghouls
and ghosts and super ghouls and ghosts as a slightly lead in to
the Halloween season. Nice.

(01:02:44):
Yeah. So that can be found anywhere
you get podcasts or our website is the old switch aroo.com.
And you can find links to all our social media and podcast and
YouTube and everything from thatone spot.
Right on. Well, thanks again.
Thank you at home for listening.Hope everybody has a safe and
happy Halloween and we will see you next time.

(01:03:08):
Your attention, please. This episode of Wild Mouse has
concluded. Make sure to rate, review and
subscribe on your favorite podcast player and follow us on
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Don't forget to visit the gift shop at wildmousepodcast.com
[e-mail]/wildMouse Podcast We hope you

(01:03:32):
enjoyed your time and will visitus again soon.
Thank you and good night.