August 27, 2025 • 63 mins
Artist and podcaster Tony Gee returns for a mystical journey into Knott's Berry Farm's Mystery Lodge! We explore its innovative projection mapping, timeless Native American storytelling, and enduring legacy.
Check out Tony's art at skeletonyart.com and listen to The Grave Plot Podcast at graveplotpodcast.com!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:20):
Greetings and welcome to anotherepisode of Wild Mouse.
I am your host, Taylor Bartle. And finally, at long last, the
people have been clamoring for it.
The the the the forums have beenexploding.
Everyone is wondering when is Skeletoni coming back?
Letters and emails. I letters, physical letters.
(00:40):
I don't know how you fuckers gotmy address, but I am getting
letters filled with white powderasking me when is Skeletoni
coming back on the show. And let me tell you, the wait is
over. Skeletoni.
Tony G is back. I'm back.
Guess who's back? Back again?
(01:02):
Tony's back. Tell a friend.
Yep. Guess who's back?
That's. How it goes?
You know, you know Thong. You've heard it.
Yeah, I mean, I kind of thought Tony would be, you know, my my
good old standby on this show, but he has not been on the show
since episode 2. But was it episode 2?
(01:25):
It was episode 2. The Haunted Mansion, Yeah.
How many are you at now? This is let's see, when is this
one coming out. I think this will be 19.
Nice, nice. Yeah, not bad.
So Rossello. Project.
Yeah. I mean for yeah, having to
always come up with different guests.
(01:47):
Yeah. It's a bit of a chore sometimes,
but it's always nice when somebody that I've done a past
episode with sends me an e-mail and they're just like, hey, I'm,
I'd love to come back on. Can we do this ride?
Can we do this show? Like that's always cool.
At least someone's enjoying it. It's all part of the experience.
(02:07):
It's true. Yeah.
Currently me and Tony's podcast,the Grave Plot Podcast is on
hiatus, but we are coming back in October, so you better get
ready for that. Better gird your loins.
But to tide you over until then,today we are going to be talking
about a show, which is the this is the first show we've done on
(02:30):
the podcast. Everybody wants to talk about
rides. Nobody wants to talk about a
show. But today we are talking about
Mystery Lodge from Knott's BerryFarm.
Tony, why? Why Mystery Lodge?
I remember just being so fascinated by it.
The the effects, obviously. I mean, you know, this it, it
(02:54):
opened up in 1994. So I was 9 at the time.
And I can just remember going toit for the first time and, you
know, not having the knowledge about it that I do now about how
it works and the mechanics of itand just being so blown away by
the by the effects and how real it looked.
(03:17):
And, you know, it, it's, it's, it's not like a a ghost story,
but it kind of has elements of aghost story, which is, you know,
always a sell for me. Sure.
Yeah. And yeah.
And it's, it's, it's the experience itself is unique in
(03:45):
that, you know, you've got ridesnowadays where it's like, you
know, you go into an area and you, and it's kind of like a
staging area, basically Haunted Mansion.
You've got the stretching room, that new Mickey Mouse runaway
train or runaway railway or something like that.
(04:06):
Runaway railway, yeah. You know you've got this the
beginning where you're watching the movie screen.
So staging areas to, to prepare you for the, for the actual
attraction. And this had something similar,
but it was so simple. Basically you're sitting outside
of a Native American long house and you're just, you're, it's
(04:30):
just an open room, but you know it, it's presented to be as if
it's outside. And you've got this whole front
of a, of a long house in front of you.
And you're just kind of expectedto like sit mill around for 1015
minutes, however long before they actually open up the doors
to the lodge itself. And you know, it's like, oh,
(04:51):
you'll come into the mystery Lodge now.
And the showmanship of it, I guess is it was always a big
appeal to me so. OK, yeah, I have not been to
Knott's Berry Farm since I was aa wee wee lad and I if I ever
did Mystery Lodge, I don't remember it at all.
(05:14):
So I have little to no memory ofever doing Mystery Lodge.
I have little to no memory of Knott's Berry Farm in general.
Sure. Mine is very hazy.
It's probably been, if not 30 years close to it since I've
been there. No, no, no, let me take that
(05:34):
back. It's probably been a little less
than 20 years, but still a long time.
You're 40 now. Too so that mine doesn't it's
not as not a steel trap like it used to be.
Fucking tell me about it. Especially on 4 hours of sleep
every night, you know. Yeah, well, you know that'll
(05:59):
happen that. Will happen.
Yeah, and then the last time we went to went to California, you
know, we went during the Halloween season and the one
thing we didn't do was not scaryfarm.
We talked about it though and just didn't pan out.
Yeah, we just kind of ran out oftime.
You know, I think it was just the cost prohibitive too,
(06:22):
because. Yeah, that's part of it.
Went to Disneyland, we went to Universal, and then we were
doing other things as well and just the the cost was too much
for kind of what it was. There was a time when Knott's
Berry Farm was, and it might still be, but there was a time
(06:44):
when Knott's Berry Farm was verycheap and it was the preferred
amusement park for, you know, teens and, you know, people in
their early 20s with no money. And there was a time where if
(07:06):
you came to the park after like,4:00 PM, you got some, like,
steep discount on entry. Oh, really?
Yeah. I don't, I don't.
I doubt they do that anymore. But so that was always an
attraction in and of itself. But yeah, like I said, it's it's
(07:26):
been close to 20 years since I've been there.
And my memory of it is fuzzy. But you know, there are
standouts that you know, just always stick with you.
Well, unlike those reasons you mentioned, yeah, those reasons
that you mentioned for, you know, like it being a popular
place for teens and also being cheap is probably why it has a
reputation for being one of the sketchier theme parks.
(07:49):
That that goes back a long ways too.
Yeah, and I mean also, you know,being in Riverside.
Riverside isn't. It in Riverside.
It's in Buena Park. Oh, isn't, is that near
Riverside? No.
All right. What the fuck am I thinking of
then? I don't know, but no, I wouldn't
go to Riverside. God, I swear that there was a
(08:12):
park in Riverside. We're recording Riverside.
Maybe that's what I'm thinking. There might be.
Oh, you know what? There's a.
Castle, Park Castle. Park that doesn't ring any
bells. I don't know.
There's raging waters out there somewhere, but I don't think
that's in Riverside. Yeah, I don't know what the fuck
(08:33):
I'm thinking of then. I don't know I'm going to do it.
You. Know what's funny is, well,
maybe it's maybe it's San Dimas,it's Raging Waters, which is an
actual real life water park is very close to San Dimas and it's
been around for decades. And so I just, I don't know if
it dates back to Bill and Ted, but you know, they talked about
(08:56):
going to Waterloo instead of Raging Waters, which is next
door. Oh, I thought it.
I just kind of assumed that whenyou started talking about San
Dimas, I was like, oh, that's probably where they filmed the
water park scenes. But no, actually, there actually
is a park called Waterloo too. No no no no.
I'm saying for them to go to a park that doesn't exist instead
(09:20):
of one that does. They probably.
Couldn't get the rights. Maybe, and also Bill and Ted was
filmed in Phoenix I think. Was it really?
Yeah. That's weird.
That's why it looks nothing likeactual Sandy.
San Dimas High School football rules.
(09:44):
Anyway, Yeah, Knotts has had some some interesting
experiences in the relatively recent past, notably someone
shooting into the park from outside of the park, as well as
someone climbing up the side of the extreme screen.
Good. I don't.
(10:06):
Remember, whatever happened withthat, I I assume they just kind
of got him to climb down. I don't think he jumped or
anything. I think I would have heard about
that, but I just remember seeingthis article about some guy
climbing up the side of the ride.
I don't know if it was if he wassuicidal or if it was just a
maybe he was high on something or if he was just like, I'll
(10:28):
show you Shannon. Just did it as a goof, yeah.
I can climb that. You can jump that far.
I can jump that far. So Mystery Lodge, the official
description from Knott's Berry Farms website says.
(10:48):
Crossover the rushing waters of Mystical Thunder Falls to
experience the inexplicable magic of award-winning Mystery
Lodge. The special effects laden
experience offers a heart warming encounter with the old
storyteller who leads guests on an unforgettable journey deep
into the Native North American West.
Yep. I've seen it described as
(11:09):
something that people skip over.And, you know, that could be it
for a variance of reasons, but probably one of the bigger ones
is that people just don't reallynotice it, don't think much of
it because it doesn't have big, bright, bombastic signage or,
you know, loud music or screams coming from it.
(11:32):
You know, which is juxtaposed bybeing right next door to Bigfoot
Rapids, which is the inner tube,right?
Yeah, I mean, the outside is fairly just, I mean, I wouldn't
say it's discreet because it does have like a large totem
looking bird of some kind. But like it's yeah, it's very
(11:53):
kind of drab colors. Like you said, it's not brightly
colored or brightly lit. And the sign is just like an
overhead, like an arch through the walkway that just says
Mystery Lodge in a very kind of unassuming font.
Yep. So yeah, it's not.
It doesn't look and super thrilling.
So yeah, yeah, it's very possible that people just don't
(12:15):
even know what it is. Yeah, it's, I mean, it's a big
wooden building and aside from the, the, the, the Native
American artwork on the side of the building, you might even not
even not even notice it was there.
And I've, I've, I've been tryingto think of why because I, I
(12:38):
went there the, the year it opened.
I went in 1994 and it was the first time, obviously.
And I think what it was, is we were actually doing like a, a
study unit unit on Native Americans in school.
And this was back when schools actually went on field trips.
(12:59):
And it's like, yeah, we're studying Native Americans, so
let's go to an amusement park. And then you we can go on.
We can go spend 15 minutes in this Native American themed
attraction. That's awesome though.
Oh, no, yeah, it totally was. It's like, to think that that
would ever happen now, it's unheard of.
(13:23):
Like, I know when I moved up here by elementary school, we
had crossing guards that were kids at the time, but at the end
of the year, the kids who did the crossing guard service, you
know, beginning of the day and end of the day, they took us all
the wild waves. But it's like that, that shit
(13:47):
just doesn't happen anymore. Yeah, my school did that too.
And I don't know if it was like every teacher, but like, yeah.
And I, I don't know if, yeah, I don't know if it was every
teacher or maybe just some teachers or just one teacher,
but they got to pick like an extra student to go.
And I was the extra student for one of my teachers.
So I got to go even though I never did.
Crossing guard. Lucky you.
(14:11):
Yeah. That was a freebie.
But now, now I'm an adult, I cango whenever I want.
But you don't. But I don't because water parks
are gross. Yeah, like I wonder if if what I
knew now about water parks, had I known it then, if I would have
(14:35):
even gone. Like to not put your butt hole
on the on the vents? Well, I think that goes without
saying, but I mean, just the, the, the thought that you are
swimming with other people's butt holes and, you know,
chlorine there. Yeah, there's chlorine, but does
(14:57):
that make you feel safe? You sure about that?
You're swimming with small children who tend to not hold
their their urine very well. Yeah, they go pee pees.
They, they just, they're like I'm in the water.
It's like I'm swimming in a toilet and I'm like, EW, it's
(15:19):
like you're swimming in a toilet.
OK. Yeah.
So from the outside, it almost looks like a like a hall.
Like, you know, if you go to thethe Washington State Fair, they
have all the halls that have allthe people selling their wares
and shit. It kind of just looks like one
of those. So yeah, I don't know how well
(15:41):
it was like advertised. It's kind of a new thing to me,
even, you know, I said. I don't really remember going
when I was a kid, but I don't really remember hearing about it
as an adult. I have a vague memory of it
being pretty prominent on Knott's Berry Farm advertising
at the time. Oh, was it?
(16:02):
Yeah. You know, newspaper article or
ads, TV ads, just, you know, really leaning into the whole
mystery element to just to kind of create some intrigue.
Because I mean, if you tried it,I think if you leaned into the
Native American element of it, that it probably wouldn't have
(16:25):
sold as well. Yeah.
But, yeah, and, you know, this is before the Internet, really.
And, you know, there wasn't a lot out there.
You didn't have much to go on. It's like, oh, the mystery
lodge. It's like, well, what is that?
(16:46):
What is the mystery lodge? Cuz they're not telling you.
They're not telling you what it is.
And it's like, here's this thingthat we got, you should check it
out. It's got a cool name.
What's the mystery Lodge? That's the mystery.
So this was a collaboration between Knott's own creative
(17:09):
storytellers and the visual effects geniuses at BRC
Imagination Arts, helmed by Bob Rogers.
We we all know Bob Rogers. There's no need to talk about
Bob Rogers. We all we all know Bob Rogers,
right? Totally.
He was AI believe before he kindof struck out on his own.
(17:31):
He worked for Disney. He is a visual visual engineer
for for Disney. Oh, is that right?
I believe so. So is he an imagineer or just a
like an animator? Kind of, yeah.
I don't think an imagineer wouldwould be the right title, but
what he actually did for Disney I don't know.
(17:51):
I just know that he did work forDisney before he started his own
company. OK, I'm trying to Google him and
I'm getting a lot of different. I'm getting Robert Rogers,
Roberta Rogers, Bobby Rogers, Bob Ross.
(18:12):
Don't know where that one came from.
But so yeah, going through the show, you said you start out,
you go in this kind of pre show area and there's is there
anything there? Is it like part of the show or
is it is? Are there things to look at or?
Yeah. I mean, I can't remember what
(18:33):
was on the walls, but I do remember, like I said, that kind
of the the the end of this longhouse being kind of built
into the wall and then like kindof forest scene surrounding it.
I don't recall if there was a campfire in the middle of the
room or something like that. I don't remember exactly, but
(18:58):
yeah, you do walk into this hall.
I mean, you know, the the building and you're walking into
the kind of this outdoor setting.
And like I said, it's just a bigopen room.
From what I can remember, it's abig open room and you just kind
of hang out there for presumablythere's another show in progress
(19:20):
inside the lodge and that's why you're waiting there.
But you know, you've got narrators kind of talking about
elements of, of Native American lore, mythology, history.
You've got, you know, visuals you've got like the moon that
kind of appears up in the sky. And I think it's like a a
(19:47):
handful of minutes before they actually let you into the lodge.
There's a, there's a, a narratorsaying, oh, you know, something
along the lines of like, there's, you know, there's a
storm coming and you're, you know, you're going, going to be
going into the lodge soon. Finer details of that I don't
(20:13):
remember, but it does eventuallyopen up.
Several doors, I mean, across the entire length of this
longhouse wall opens up several doors and you all, they let you
in. And it's an amphitheater setting
all circled around this stage, which is designed to look like
(20:38):
the inside of this lodge. I mean, the whole room, the
whole room is like the inside ofthis lodge, but there's a stage
area where the actor moves around and it's behind a big
sheet of glass and it tells you that this is this.
The glass is to prevent a perfect, sorry, protect you from
(21:02):
smoke effects, but there's no actual smoke effects.
It's all part of the the illusion, Michael.
Mystery. Yeah, the mystery.
Wait, so they so they break the K fame to tell you that this
glass is to protect you from smoke effects which don't
actually exist? Yeah, it's it's all
(21:24):
misdirection. They're telling you the glass is
there to protect from smoke effects, but there's no actual
smoke. The smoke is all generated by a
projector, which I mean, we get into these details later or, or
now, however you want to do it. But the whole show is based on
a, a version of Pepper's ghost, the whole thing, I mean, aside
(21:48):
from the, the, the actor himself.
And so the, the glass is, is part of that.
It's not for smoke. It's to catch reflections from
the from the projectors, so. A little.
Bit of misdirection, but a but aclever way.
(22:08):
Yeah, I mean, so much of this stuff, like we talked about it
in the Haunted Mansion episode, but like so much of this kind of
stuff is just old magician tricks.
Yeah, exactly. And it's just all like, it's
literally smoke and mirrors. But yeah, I mean, whereas
Haunted Mansion was a, a, a truePepper's ghost, you know, you
(22:29):
had a separate room of moving figures casting a reflection
against glass. This was a projector.
This was a movie essentially casting a reflection rather than
having a, a completely separate room of moving parts.
(22:51):
And so when I was doing my research about this, I actually
realized that that was pretty revolutionary.
And it was actually, there was a, a, a patent filed for it
because Pepper's ghost in its true form requires so much space
because you got to create basically a, a, a duplicate of,
(23:14):
of a room that you're trying to reflect.
And this version, you can minimize that space because all
you're doing is using a projector.
So whereas you know, the HauntedMansion, you know is what, like
2-3 stories tall? Yeah, at least 2.
(23:36):
The yeah, the this version was barely, barely taller than the
normal, you know, theater theater height, I guess, but
barely taller than than that. Because all they're storing away
is a is a projector. Interesting.
(23:56):
I mean, for real quick, for anybody who might not know what
a Pepper's Ghost illusion is, it, it is basically like a
mirror and like I think it's just a sheet of glass and they
take in this case a projector, but usually it's an actual
physical object. And just through kind of
reflections, you get this translucent, you know, they'll
(24:18):
shine a light through the glass,and it'll create this kind of
translucent duplicate of the item.
And so that's why the Haunted Mansion uses it.
And you get these. It looks like a ghost because
you can see through it, but it'sactually just a projection.
Not a projection, but a reflection of a physical thing
(24:38):
that's like Tony said, in another room.
Yeah. I don't know if I.
Described that well, but you getthe idea.
Also, a pepper's ghost is when you eat something spicy and then
crop. Does somebody OK, I just made
that up? That's that's not real.
It's a fake thing. Made it up.
(24:59):
Shouldn't have done that. What about a Ghost Peppers
Ghost, Yeah. That's going to really burn your
ass. That's that's deadly.
That's, I mean a ghost pepper ghost.
You could be trying to crop to someone and end up just lava
shitting your pants. Darting.
(25:23):
Just making a mess. Suddenly you feel something warm
dripping down your leg. Shit.
Don't shit, don't shit, don't shit.
Nobody else. Don't look at me.
Don't look at me. OK, so you walk into this
theater and is there anything onthe stage at this point?
(25:47):
Yeah. I mean, so it's a complete 360
setting. I mean, you're, you're inside
this lodge. There is a corner of the lodge
or part of the lodge that is encased behind this glass.
But it, it, it's not especially different.
(26:09):
I mean, it's all kind of, it kind of flows into the rest of
the lodge, but there is a like afire pit in the middle of it.
And I mean, aside from that, there's nothing really of note
that I can recall. OK.
And then the lights go out or ordown at least.
(26:34):
Or am I just watching a very dark video?
Yeah, well, it's a very dark attraction by design.
I don't, I don't recall exactly how it starts.
You know, you get in there and the stage area is empty.
(26:55):
There's nobody there. And at some point the the
speaker appears, whether they lower the lights and he's
suddenly there or if he walks onto the stage, probably not
walking on because that would kind of be contrary to the whole
idea of this, you know, magical storytelling that they're, that
(27:16):
they're putting together. So there's probably some
illusion. Well, yeah, the lights go down
or, or lightning flashes or something, and then suddenly
he's there. Yeah, it does.
It does look like there's like music that kind of starts
playing and there is a flash of lightning and then this, this
speaker appears. And so this, this is a real
person. Yes.
(27:36):
And I was very uncertain about that for a very long time
because, you know, I'd seen the,you know, the Hall of Presidents
and, you know, these are animatronic effects that were
developed in the the 50s or 60s.And to this day, they're very
(27:57):
impressive. So at the time it's like, OK,
well, you, you know, add 30 years of technology to that and
it's like, sure, maybe this could be an animatronic.
Yeah. Hey, Tony, what's up?
What? What does Abraham Lincoln say in
the Hall of Presidents? Welcome to the Hall of
Presidents. Another Bill and Ted call back.
(28:24):
That's so us. Have you seen the new Walt
animatronic? Yeah.
It doesn't really look like him.Not so much.
It looks more like Roy. I saw somebody say it looks like
Mike Lindell and I can't see anything else now, but but the
movement of it is crazy. It's so good.
(28:48):
Yeah, like he stands up and walks across the room.
And I mean from what I hear he completely matches Walt's gate.
Wow. I said he's a person, don't
humanize the robots. Those Disney animatronics are
getting crazy. Well, yeah, the first time
(29:10):
because we did. We go on smugglers run together
for the first time. When we went, was that the first
time you went on it? Yeah, yes, yeah.
OK, yeah, I remember the. Had you been on it before?
I don't remember, I might have Ibecause I don't remember when I
(29:36):
went with Nazgoda if it was openthen.
But anyways, the first time I went on it, that Hondo
animatronic, I was like, oh, that's a person, That's a guy in
a suit. And then like, it took me a a
couple seconds to a minute to belike, Oh no shit, that's an
animatronic. Yeah, yeah.
And I mean like even something like the animatronics they put
(29:59):
in that Tiana's Bayou adventure,is that what they're calling it?
Yeah, when I first saw the animatronics were there for
that. It's like the, I mean, they're
cartoons obviously, or, you know, live representations of,
of cartoon characters, but the fluidity of them was incredible.
(30:22):
Like I, I couldn't believe what I was looking at.
And so, and then, you know, theyactually develop.
Well, I, I, I think the net the probably the first time I really
realized how good these animatronics were getting was
when they put Jack Sparrow in Pirates.
Yeah. And I was convinced that that
(30:42):
was an actor. Well, like, I mean, a lot of
people's big complaint about that is that you really kind of
get the dichotomy of old versus new and you can really compare
how good the new animatronic is compared to the the old ones
that are, you know, swinging around and their arms aren't
moving anywhere and they're basically doing the robot.
(31:07):
Yeah. I didn't realize this was a live
action actor in Mystery Lodge. I always thought it was an
animatronic. Again, I haven't seen it.
If I did, I was a a little baby and I don't remember but from
what I knew of the show I thought it featured an
animatronic. Yeah, I, I went back and forth a
lot of times over the course of my life, but I am all but
(31:32):
totally certain that this that it is an actor because the way
that the way that it the actor moves across the room like the
you, you can't there, there was no way even the, you know, the
millions of dollars that they threw at this, there's no way
(31:54):
that 1994 they developed an animatronic that could freely
move, move around A room. Yeah, this was before the like,
Boston mechanics, robots and stuff.
So yeah. So you know, when, when you're a
kid, you don't really think thatwhat's, what's the word
(32:19):
thoroughly, I guess methodicallythat's the word.
There you go. OK, yeah, but so he's, he's
physically in the room, right? Like he's not a Pepper's ghost.
Correct. OK.
And so he, he comes out, he starts talking about this owl
and he's like he, you know, thisowl looked at me and basically
(32:42):
that this is supposed to signifythat he's going to die soon.
Yeah, I, I believe in, I don't know if it's just Native
American culture in general or if it's just, you know, Pacific
Northwest tribes, but yeah, they're, they're the, the owl is
like a harbinger of death. Off topic as we are want to do,
(33:08):
but have you? I saw this cartoon and it's Ozzy
Osbourne walking hand in hand through the pearly gates with
Paddington. Ozzy's like, oh man, the drugs
up here are good. I can't believe I'm walking with
Winnie the Pooh. And Paddington is like, actually
(33:28):
my name's Paddington. I'm the Angel of death and Ozzy
says so. All this time we've been singing
about a stuffed bear and a duffer coat and Paddington's,
like, I'm as surprised as you are.
(33:51):
That's awesome. That's so weird.
All right. Be Aussie.
Yeah, the timing of that was crazy.
Yeah, it was like 2 weeks after that big concert.
Was it even that long? I maybe I don't know, but it was
not long. Yeah.
(34:11):
Have you seen the video of Papa singing Bark at the Moon?
Yeah, you seem unimpressed. He didn't sound great.
OK, I watched it on mute becauseI was at work so I haven't
actually heard it. Yeah, I mean, he was just not
hitting certain notes and so it just kind of sounded off.
(34:34):
Papa has a very specific here wego on the Pope cast.
Papa has a a very specific range.
And so I feel like there's some songs that it's just like that.
That ain't it. You're not quite there, Toby.
It's Toby, he, he said to himself.
(34:54):
Like, you know, my voice sounds better when it's got layers.
You know, when I, when I've got layers of, of singing different
notes. I mean like different keys, not
different keys, but yeah, different notes.
(35:15):
Basically harmonizing with himself.
Harmonizing with himself. Yeah, he says.
I my voice just sounds better that way.
I mean, that's, that's how my voice sounds Good.
It's like, all right, well, fairenough.
Yeah, as long as long as you know it and, you know, stay
within your lane. He came out and performed for
(35:36):
some kind of ceremony or honoring queen and he's he did
OK and he didn't sound that great on that either.
Yeah, he did. Bohemian Rhapsody.
Yeah, and you know, Freddie, it's hard, hard to get even
close to Freddie. Yeah.
(35:57):
So I'm not going to hold that against him, but.
And it's not that he Can't Sing other people's songs.
He's the, I mean, Ghost has doneplenty of covers and they sound
great, but it's just, like I said, it's a very specific
range. And so he has to know how to do
the song in that range. Anyway, that was way off topic.
(36:20):
OK, so this guy thinks he's going to die, but he says he's
he feels fine, right? But I mean, I don't know if
you'll know the answer to this, but how like scripted is it?
Is it like the same every singleshow?
Oh, so I don't think the actor is actually speaking.
(36:41):
Oh, OK. I'm pretty sure it's a voice
over. OK, so then yes, it's the same
every single time. Yeah, yeah.
And, you know, just because you're dealing with a live actor
that is working with predetermined effects, you have
to maintain that consistency. That makes sense.
(37:03):
Lol and knowing that it is an actor, I am even more impressed
that the actor can always hit those marks to be cued with
those effects, at least every time that I'd seen it.
Yeah, the the effects are, are they pre like is it there's not
(37:28):
like somebody in a booth somewhere pushing buttons to
make the effects go off. It's just a constant, like a
consistent thing. Yeah, no, it's like I said, it's
a a projector. It's basically just running a
movie. OK.
So yeah, it's just timing is is is a crucial factor.
Yeah, they must have this thing.Just memorize T to B.
(37:52):
Yeah, so he starts. Telling the story about his
grandmother, telling stories around the campfire.
And this is when you kind of getsome of those smoke effects.
And so this, this smoke is just a Pepper's ghost.
Yep. Because when I first watched it,
I was like, oh, that? It's just like a smoke machine.
(38:13):
Yeah, no, all an illusion. Wow, Yeah.
I mean that it really does look like it's right there, like it's
just a smoke machine going off. But is the actor wearing a mask?
I I think so, yeah. OK.
And that's what was so confusingis that the face looked fake,
(38:36):
but the way the mouth moved looked real.
Oh, the mouth moved. Because yeah, I mean when he's
when he's talking, you can see like, you know, annunciations in
in in in the way his his mouth moves.
It's not like a like a cartoon character where you're just
going, you know, like. Watermelon.
(38:58):
Watermelon. So yeah, I think it is a mask,
but it's so dark it's it's really hard to make these things
out. Which I mean, the darkness was
obviously to protect the effects, but it also helped kind
(39:18):
of disguise things like having aan actor wearing A at least a
facial appliance. I don't know if it was a a mask.
That could be like just maybe the top half or something.
That's why the mouth, you can tell that it's articulating.
But so he starts telling this story and he's talking about all
the different, like animals and trees and stuff.
(39:40):
And as he's talking, the smoke is changing form to make all
these shapes. Like it turns into salmon
jumping across the river and it turns into a tree and different
birds. That's a really cool effect.
Yeah, and you know, when I was growing up in California, a lot
(40:05):
of the native or indigenous talkwas for Southwestern tribes and,
you know, the people who. Were subjected to mission life
and, you know, like the people who were, who were along the
(40:27):
path of, you know, Catholic missionaries, that type of stuff
didn't have really much exposureat all to Pacific Northwest
tribes. And so it was kind of would
irony be the right word? Coincidental, I guess, probably
(40:50):
more accurate. It's just very coincidental that
a year later I moved up here. And then, you know, the, the
history and iconography of Native American tribes in the
Pacific Northwest region is is everywhere.
It's it's part of the culture now.
(41:11):
I mean, we've got cities named after Native American words
Sports. Teams.
Sports teams. So you saw this, you saw Mystery
Lodge, and you were like, boom, got to go to the Northwest.
Yeah, totally. It's not like I, you know, left
California kicking and screaming.
(41:33):
So he starts telling the story about the, you know, the earth
and basically how the, you know,the Native American beliefs that
all things have souls and all things, you know that the song
from Pocahontas. Colors the wind or something.
(41:54):
That's yeah, you got it, man. Great cover by Suburban Legends,
by the way. Didn't Vanessa Williams sing the
one for the soundtrack? I have no idea.
I thought that was so I'm prettysure that is the case.
And I thought that was weird when when movies would do that,
(42:14):
it's like they'd have these actors, these voice actors and
or singing voiced actors to do the songs in the movie.
But then on the soundtrack it'd be like some well known actor or
a well known, well known musician singing the soundtrack
version. It's like, why didn't you just
use the one that's in the movie?Because they need to have a
(42:37):
famous singer do it. Fine, sure.
Because people want to hear famous singers.
They don't want to hear fucking.I don't know whoever did the
voice of Pocahontas, I don't know who it was.
Some lady. Just like how friggin Jerry
(42:57):
Dandridge was the voice of Jack Skellington, but Danny Elfman
sang all the songs. Yeah, and nobody noticed.
Somehow. Nobody.
Noticed. Why does Jack Skellington sound
so much like Angle Boingo? I don't know, it's weird.
In hindsight, how did they not put Dead Man's Party in A
(43:21):
Nightmare Before Christmas? Ending credits.
It's perfect. Have Jack Skellington dancing
around singing Dead Man's Party.He's the dead man.
He's the dead. Man, he's the one having the
party. And the party is Halloween.
It's yes, you got it. Come on guys, we shouldn't have
(43:47):
to write this for you. But we will if you want to hire
us. So he starts talking about, you
know, the different kind of beliefs that natives have of the
like the Raven is a trickster and the Thunderbird is the
bringer of lightning. And as he's telling the story,
the flames from the fire and thesmoke are creating all these
(44:07):
different shapes. You know, it creates a Raven
that flies across the sky and itcreates the shape of a
Thunderbird. And so he's telling these
stories and every time he talks about, you know, something, a
different animal or something, it the smoke will change shape
and create the story. And then he starts talking about
(44:31):
these celebrations. And this time it's not the
smoke, but it's just this is where it's really clearly a
Pepper's ghost. You see this I, you know, some
kind of dancer wearing like a bird head and it's, I mean, it's
actually a multiple people just dancing and, and, and they're
(44:52):
all wearing these. They're.
Bird heads, basically, I guess they're all wearing these, you
know, these garments. And so, yeah, it's you're
looking at them, but they're notthere.
Like you, you see the physical storyteller standing there, but
then these dancers are that it looks like ghosts.
(45:17):
And So what I mean, what is the basic premise of the story he's
telling? I mean, really it's just talking
about Native American culture and kind of the belief system
and and the the magic of it. I guess not to, you know,
(45:40):
demunitize it. Trivialize.
Sure, yeah. But I mean, that's kind of, I
think that's the the general purpose of it is just to tell
kind of a little bit about Native American culture and
their belief system. I mean, there's an overarching
(46:03):
message of life and family and, you know, just living, living,
living. Well, I guess so it's a it's a
positive message. It seems like there's a little
bit of like respecting Mother Earth kind of in there too.
(46:26):
Yeah. Although it's funny, this part
that I just paused that right now he's talking about when I
was young, I was very handsome and all the girls wanted to be
with me. It just kind of sounds like a
Donald Trump story. When I was young, all the girls,
they wanted me. All the girls, they said,
Donald, you're so handsome. Never happened.
(46:50):
This one girl, she was so beautiful.
She was the most beautiful girl in the whole world.
You wouldn't believe. You'd be like, Oh my God, she's
14. She was 14.
But that doesn't matter. Allegedly.
Allegedly. But we know, we know.
(47:13):
Yeah, he tells a story about this, this woman that he met and
they got married and had a child.
And the whole time he's telling the story again, the smoke is
forming the shape of these two bodies, and they start having
sex. And it's all very graphic.
There's a spunk flying everywhere.
He's doing her doggy style. That's crazy.
(47:34):
This was for children. She's like down on her knees.
And no, none of that happens. It's very classy.
But the the flames do turn into the shapes of bodies.
And then, you know, you see her.This baby just kind of
(47:55):
materializes. That's not how babies are made.
No stork brings them. Everyone knows that they could
have done it twice. I.
Think I know. They could have made a stork out
of smoke. Way to phone it in knots.
Like Tony said, if there's a message of family and so he's
(48:16):
talking about teaching his childto fish and to swim and row and
boat, Tony and I are the only ones that get that reference.
Yep, this is what you have sex for.
Many guys at a time and it's notgay.
(48:38):
It's not gay. But he starts talking about he
starts talking about God. Oh Nope.
I think I got to say the closed captions on this video are
(48:58):
pretty bad. Every time.
He was saying owl before it keptsaying all.
But he starts talking about how his children, you know, grow up
and now they have children of their own.
And he's a grandfather. And now he's that's why he's all
old and but he still thinks his wife is the most beautiful woman
(49:18):
in the world. But high rule.
And the oh, I don't think these are right.
You know, start talking about Zelda.
The smoke is turning into a skull, it looks.
Like. Oh no, it's the owl.
It's the owl. Uh oh.
It looks exactly like owl from Winnie the Pooh.
(49:42):
But so. That's an owl.
You are fucked. I mean, basically that's what
he's trying to tell us. He's like, well, there's an owl.
So I guess my time is up. Thanks.
I thank you very much. I've been your host.
I'm to the left. I'm going to go die now, but it
(50:02):
turns out the whole time it was just a Raven because he's the
trickster. A little prick.
Raven, Raven. Son of a bitch.
Sneaky fucker. So how does this end?
I forget what leads into it exactly what elements you know
you're seeing right there. He he turns into a bird and that
(50:24):
I mean, knowing how the the effects behind it, it's
impressive because he turns intoa bird and the the live actor
disappears. I don't know how unless he just
like drops on the floor and sneaks away.
It's. Got to be a trap door or
something. Maybe, but he does reappear back
(50:48):
in his human form. And then at the very end, God,
I, I can't remember exactly. If I can remember the beats of
the story, that would help, but I, I can't remember exactly what
happens. He does say, you know, some
version of farewell, I believe. And then he disappears again.
(51:11):
And the only thing that's left on the stage is his cane, which
sits there for a second and thenfalls to the floor.
Well, that's a cool effect. Yeah, and I have no idea how
they did it. Yeah, he, I mean, he just, it
looks like the lights just kind of go down and he, yeah, he must
(51:32):
kind of slink away and he turns into this this bird.
And then there's it. I don't know if it's supposed to
be heaven or what, but it's justlike all these clouds across the
stage and like the moonlight. And then, yeah, all that clears
up and he walks back out. He's like, oh, here I am.
I'm fine, don't worry about it. Fool.
(51:55):
You. I'm a Raven, remember?
Oh. No, wait, he's not the Raven.
He's the rabbit. No, he's the walrus.
Hi, I'm the walrus. Oh, there's the cane.
Yeah, the cane just stands there.
How do they do that? No idea fishing wire.
(52:18):
I mean, the only thing I can think is that the actor puts the
cane in like maybe some kind of a hole in the ground or some
kind of locking mechanism that holds for, you know, a beat and
then releases and then falls to the floor.
(52:40):
Could be. How they can get it to fall the
same way every time instead of like, you know, bouncing across
the floor, I don't know. Yeah, this these subtitles call
Mystery Lodge Mr. Dodge. So that kind of tells you what
we're working with here. Get ahold, Mr. Dodge.
(53:00):
That's that's the storyteller's name.
You didn't know the whole time, but it's Mr. Dodge.
So unfortunately it appears thatMystery Lodge closed for
refurbishment, quote UN quote, in 2019.
And then, you know, things happened in 2020.
I'm sure you guys remember and Mystery Lodge has not been seen
(53:24):
since and by all indications it probably is not going to reopen.
Yeah, I was reading that there was a rumor.
It's not a very salacious rumor,but a rumor that a custom part
of the projector they use broke and the cost to replace it was
(53:49):
just not worth it. I saw this too.
Did you? Yeah, that seems crazy to to
have to shut down an entire attraction, you know, having
this space in your park that is taking up space not being used.
(54:12):
I mean, it's it's like having a a, a house for sale that that
isn't selling. It's just costing money so to
leave it closed instead of either tearing it down or
replacing the the supposed part so you can get it back up and
operational again. Seems like one or the other
(54:33):
should have been done by now. Yeah, I, I'm surprised that if,
if that's the case, that it's not going to reopen, then I'm
surprised they haven't made moves to put something else in
there. Yeah, apparently they've been
using it for Knott's Scary Farm mazes and shows, which, you
(54:58):
know, you might as well. I mean, the, the, the way that
it's set up is perfect for, you know, things requiring a
Pepper's ghost, which plays really well into, you know,
horror stories and ghost storiesand things.
Yeah, they've actually been using it for for Knott's Scary
Farm since 2000 to 2000. It's in 2000 it was a maze
(55:22):
called Voodoo Witch Project. You can tell what was popular
then. From 2001 to 2004, it was a maze
called Blood Bayou. From 2005 to 2008, it was 13 Axe
Murder Manor. From 2009 to 2012, it was Terror
of London. That's that's good.
I like that. From 2013 to 2015, it was
(55:45):
forever more. I don't know what that is.
From 2016 to 2019, it was special OPS infected, which
sounds like a Call of Duty level.
And in 2022 it was called the Grim War.
And then obviously in 2020 and 2021, well, in 2021 they did
(56:06):
have a show in there called Invitation to Terror.
Terror. Yeah.
And then in 2012 they had a showcalled Unearthed, and in 2013
they had a show called Possessed.
I don't know what these shows were.
Couldn't find any information onthem other than that, but.
(56:27):
But I bet they were spooky. Hell, a spooky.
So spooky, dude. So anyway, yeah, I just learned
today that it's that it was closed and that that bums me out
because it was really fun. Just just the show was is fun to
(56:50):
watch. It was entertaining.
And to to see how well the effects you work.
I mean, even by today's standards, these effects are
pretty impressive, especially thinking about the fact that
they used them 30 years ago. Right.
Yeah. I mean, just from watching the
video, it's, it's impressive to see what they do.
(57:11):
And, you know, then I imagine being there in person, it's even
more impressive. Yeah.
You know this was developed. I can't remember if you actually
mentioned this or not, but it was developed originally for the
World Fair in 1986. I did not mention that because I
didn't know that. No, yeah, it's, it was, it was
(57:32):
called the Spirit Lodge. It was, it didn't have the, the,
the, the dressing that Mystery Lodge did.
I mean, it was, it was in one ofthe the World's Fair halls and
it was the Spirit Lodge was one of three different shows that
(57:57):
used these similar Pepper's ghost effects.
So this was in 1986, so almost 10 years before Mystery Lodge
even opened. So this is actually like almost
40 year old technology. Damn.
Still being pretty impressive. Yeah.
I mean, you know, there are things that they could do now
(58:18):
that would take it, you know, bump it up a notch and bring it
into the 21st century. But you, you, you wouldn't have.
You don't need to because the effects still work.
And apparently they won't because parts are too expensive.
It's. Like put a new fucking projector
(58:40):
in there. Yeah, it's just it.
I find that. Hard to it won't break.
I find it hard to believe that there there's one piece that's
that's just derailing everything.
Yeah, unless the piece is like the whole projector.
But even then, like you're telling me, you can't make a new
(59:01):
one. So this opened in June 1994 and
it cost $10 million to build in June 2025.
S in today's dollars that would have cost 20, so basically
(59:25):
double if they built that today it would cost almost $22
million. So, you know, think of that kind
of money back then was was $10 million.
(59:46):
I mean, obviously the the building and the set and the
effects all had their cost association.
But if they really did use some kind of custom projector that I
imagine that probably came with a pretty heavy price tag as
well. Sure.
Yeah. And I wonder if they just think
(01:00:07):
that the the return on investment is not there on
something like this when they could go build a roller coaster
instead. And that could be, but again,
why they haven't done so. Yeah, do something.
Six years now it's. I don't know figure it out
(01:00:27):
knots. That's why I said so figure it
out. All right, final thoughts on
Mystery Lodge? You know, fucking RIP.
It was, it was, it was a fun time.
And I feel bad for anybody who might go to Knots and not be
(01:00:47):
able to experience it because itwas definitely, it was like
people go to Disney and they go to Hall of Presidents so they
can sit down. And this was similar, except
this was much more entertaining than Hall of Presidents.
(01:01:09):
And no one is yelling slurs at the storyteller.
So yeah, it's a bummer it's closed, but it was a fun time
and I'm I'm glad that there are videos of it at least.
I'm I'm sad I never got to experience it or if I did I
don't remember so. Yeah, all.
(01:01:32):
Right. Well, I mean, obviously, you
know, it, it's, it's, it made animpression on me that, you know,
30 years later is still resonating.
So. It lives on in the hearts and
minds of those who remember it. Right.
And for that reason, it will never truly be gone.
(01:01:53):
Or something. Especially if they never
actually knocked down the building.
You're right. All right, go ahead and promote
your stuff. Well, I mean, obviously I'm part
of the Grave Plot podcast and we'll be back here in a couple,
few few months. But aside from that, I am a part
(01:02:15):
time semi professional artist. You can check me out at
skeletonyart.com. All my links to my socials are
on my website, but basically youjust put skeletony art at the
end of any social media website and you you'll probably find me.
Bring money and. You can buy buy stuff for me,
(01:02:36):
Yeah, because writing a businessis expensive, especially when
you're not active actively making.
And Tony's got kids. I do got kids all.
Right. Well.
I have to buy baby formula. Go buy stuff from Tony and keep
(01:03:02):
on listening. We'll see you in a couple weeks.
Thank you. Goodbye.
Your attention please. This episode of Wild Mouse has
concluded. Make sure to rate, review and
subscribe on your favorite podcast player and follow us on
social media at Wild Mouse Podcast.
Don't forget to visit the gift shop at wildmousepodcast.com for
(01:03:26):
exclusive bonus content. Become a premium pass holder at
patreon.com/wild Mouse Podcast. We hope you enjoyed your time
and will visit us again soon. Thank you and good night.
Greetings and welcome to anotherepisode of Wild Mouse.
I am your host, Taylor Bartle. And finally, at long last, the
people have been clamoring for it.
The the the the forums have beenexploding.
Everyone is wondering when is Skeletoni coming back?
Letters and emails. I letters, physical letters.
(00:40):
I don't know how you fuckers gotmy address, but I am getting
letters filled with white powderasking me when is Skeletoni
coming back on the show. And let me tell you, the wait is
over. Skeletoni.
Tony G is back. I'm back.
Guess who's back? Back again?
(01:02):
Tony's back. Tell a friend.
Yep. Guess who's back?
That's. How it goes?
You know, you know Thong. You've heard it.
Yeah, I mean, I kind of thought Tony would be, you know, my my
good old standby on this show, but he has not been on the show
since episode 2. But was it episode 2?
(01:25):
It was episode 2. The Haunted Mansion, Yeah.
How many are you at now? This is let's see, when is this
one coming out. I think this will be 19.
Nice, nice. Yeah, not bad.
So Rossello. Project.
Yeah. I mean for yeah, having to
always come up with different guests.
(01:47):
Yeah. It's a bit of a chore sometimes,
but it's always nice when somebody that I've done a past
episode with sends me an e-mail and they're just like, hey, I'm,
I'd love to come back on. Can we do this ride?
Can we do this show? Like that's always cool.
At least someone's enjoying it. It's all part of the experience.
(02:07):
It's true. Yeah.
Currently me and Tony's podcast,the Grave Plot Podcast is on
hiatus, but we are coming back in October, so you better get
ready for that. Better gird your loins.
But to tide you over until then,today we are going to be talking
about a show, which is the this is the first show we've done on
(02:30):
the podcast. Everybody wants to talk about
rides. Nobody wants to talk about a
show. But today we are talking about
Mystery Lodge from Knott's BerryFarm.
Tony, why? Why Mystery Lodge?
I remember just being so fascinated by it.
The the effects, obviously. I mean, you know, this it, it
(02:54):
opened up in 1994. So I was 9 at the time.
And I can just remember going toit for the first time and, you
know, not having the knowledge about it that I do now about how
it works and the mechanics of itand just being so blown away by
the by the effects and how real it looked.
(03:17):
And, you know, it, it's, it's, it's not like a a ghost story,
but it kind of has elements of aghost story, which is, you know,
always a sell for me. Sure.
Yeah. And yeah.
And it's, it's, it's the experience itself is unique in
(03:45):
that, you know, you've got ridesnowadays where it's like, you
know, you go into an area and you, and it's kind of like a
staging area, basically Haunted Mansion.
You've got the stretching room, that new Mickey Mouse runaway
train or runaway railway or something like that.
(04:06):
Runaway railway, yeah. You know you've got this the
beginning where you're watching the movie screen.
So staging areas to, to prepare you for the, for the actual
attraction. And this had something similar,
but it was so simple. Basically you're sitting outside
of a Native American long house and you're just, you're, it's
(04:30):
just an open room, but you know it, it's presented to be as if
it's outside. And you've got this whole front
of a, of a long house in front of you.
And you're just kind of expectedto like sit mill around for 1015
minutes, however long before they actually open up the doors
to the lodge itself. And you know, it's like, oh,
(04:51):
you'll come into the mystery Lodge now.
And the showmanship of it, I guess is it was always a big
appeal to me so. OK, yeah, I have not been to
Knott's Berry Farm since I was aa wee wee lad and I if I ever
did Mystery Lodge, I don't remember it at all.
(05:14):
So I have little to no memory ofever doing Mystery Lodge.
I have little to no memory of Knott's Berry Farm in general.
Sure. Mine is very hazy.
It's probably been, if not 30 years close to it since I've
been there. No, no, no, let me take that
(05:34):
back. It's probably been a little less
than 20 years, but still a long time.
You're 40 now. Too so that mine doesn't it's
not as not a steel trap like it used to be.
Fucking tell me about it. Especially on 4 hours of sleep
every night, you know. Yeah, well, you know that'll
(05:59):
happen that. Will happen.
Yeah, and then the last time we went to went to California, you
know, we went during the Halloween season and the one
thing we didn't do was not scaryfarm.
We talked about it though and just didn't pan out.
Yeah, we just kind of ran out oftime.
You know, I think it was just the cost prohibitive too,
(06:22):
because. Yeah, that's part of it.
Went to Disneyland, we went to Universal, and then we were
doing other things as well and just the the cost was too much
for kind of what it was. There was a time when Knott's
Berry Farm was, and it might still be, but there was a time
(06:44):
when Knott's Berry Farm was verycheap and it was the preferred
amusement park for, you know, teens and, you know, people in
their early 20s with no money. And there was a time where if
(07:06):
you came to the park after like,4:00 PM, you got some, like,
steep discount on entry. Oh, really?
Yeah. I don't, I don't.
I doubt they do that anymore. But so that was always an
attraction in and of itself. But yeah, like I said, it's it's
(07:26):
been close to 20 years since I've been there.
And my memory of it is fuzzy. But you know, there are
standouts that you know, just always stick with you.
Well, unlike those reasons you mentioned, yeah, those reasons
that you mentioned for, you know, like it being a popular
place for teens and also being cheap is probably why it has a
reputation for being one of the sketchier theme parks.
(07:49):
That that goes back a long ways too.
Yeah, and I mean also, you know,being in Riverside.
Riverside isn't. It in Riverside.
It's in Buena Park. Oh, isn't, is that near
Riverside? No.
All right. What the fuck am I thinking of
then? I don't know, but no, I wouldn't
go to Riverside. God, I swear that there was a
(08:12):
park in Riverside. We're recording Riverside.
Maybe that's what I'm thinking. There might be.
Oh, you know what? There's a.
Castle, Park Castle. Park that doesn't ring any
bells. I don't know.
There's raging waters out there somewhere, but I don't think
that's in Riverside. Yeah, I don't know what the fuck
(08:33):
I'm thinking of then. I don't know I'm going to do it.
You. Know what's funny is, well,
maybe it's maybe it's San Dimas,it's Raging Waters, which is an
actual real life water park is very close to San Dimas and it's
been around for decades. And so I just, I don't know if
it dates back to Bill and Ted, but you know, they talked about
(08:56):
going to Waterloo instead of Raging Waters, which is next
door. Oh, I thought it.
I just kind of assumed that whenyou started talking about San
Dimas, I was like, oh, that's probably where they filmed the
water park scenes. But no, actually, there actually
is a park called Waterloo too. No no no no.
I'm saying for them to go to a park that doesn't exist instead
(09:20):
of one that does. They probably.
Couldn't get the rights. Maybe, and also Bill and Ted was
filmed in Phoenix I think. Was it really?
Yeah. That's weird.
That's why it looks nothing likeactual Sandy.
San Dimas High School football rules.
(09:44):
Anyway, Yeah, Knotts has had some some interesting
experiences in the relatively recent past, notably someone
shooting into the park from outside of the park, as well as
someone climbing up the side of the extreme screen.
Good. I don't.
(10:06):
Remember, whatever happened withthat, I I assume they just kind
of got him to climb down. I don't think he jumped or
anything. I think I would have heard about
that, but I just remember seeingthis article about some guy
climbing up the side of the ride.
I don't know if it was if he wassuicidal or if it was just a
maybe he was high on something or if he was just like, I'll
(10:28):
show you Shannon. Just did it as a goof, yeah.
I can climb that. You can jump that far.
I can jump that far. So Mystery Lodge, the official
description from Knott's Berry Farms website says.
(10:48):
Crossover the rushing waters of Mystical Thunder Falls to
experience the inexplicable magic of award-winning Mystery
Lodge. The special effects laden
experience offers a heart warming encounter with the old
storyteller who leads guests on an unforgettable journey deep
into the Native North American West.
Yep. I've seen it described as
(11:09):
something that people skip over.And, you know, that could be it
for a variance of reasons, but probably one of the bigger ones
is that people just don't reallynotice it, don't think much of
it because it doesn't have big, bright, bombastic signage or,
you know, loud music or screams coming from it.
(11:32):
You know, which is juxtaposed bybeing right next door to Bigfoot
Rapids, which is the inner tube,right?
Yeah, I mean, the outside is fairly just, I mean, I wouldn't
say it's discreet because it does have like a large totem
looking bird of some kind. But like it's yeah, it's very
(11:53):
kind of drab colors. Like you said, it's not brightly
colored or brightly lit. And the sign is just like an
overhead, like an arch through the walkway that just says
Mystery Lodge in a very kind of unassuming font.
Yep. So yeah, it's not.
It doesn't look and super thrilling.
So yeah, yeah, it's very possible that people just don't
(12:15):
even know what it is. Yeah, it's, I mean, it's a big
wooden building and aside from the, the, the, the Native
American artwork on the side of the building, you might even not
even not even notice it was there.
And I've, I've, I've been tryingto think of why because I, I
(12:38):
went there the, the year it opened.
I went in 1994 and it was the first time, obviously.
And I think what it was, is we were actually doing like a, a
study unit unit on Native Americans in school.
And this was back when schools actually went on field trips.
(12:59):
And it's like, yeah, we're studying Native Americans, so
let's go to an amusement park. And then you we can go on.
We can go spend 15 minutes in this Native American themed
attraction. That's awesome though.
Oh, no, yeah, it totally was. It's like, to think that that
would ever happen now, it's unheard of.
(13:23):
Like, I know when I moved up here by elementary school, we
had crossing guards that were kids at the time, but at the end
of the year, the kids who did the crossing guard service, you
know, beginning of the day and end of the day, they took us all
the wild waves. But it's like that, that shit
(13:47):
just doesn't happen anymore. Yeah, my school did that too.
And I don't know if it was like every teacher, but like, yeah.
And I, I don't know if, yeah, I don't know if it was every
teacher or maybe just some teachers or just one teacher,
but they got to pick like an extra student to go.
And I was the extra student for one of my teachers.
So I got to go even though I never did.
Crossing guard. Lucky you.
(14:11):
Yeah. That was a freebie.
But now, now I'm an adult, I cango whenever I want.
But you don't. But I don't because water parks
are gross. Yeah, like I wonder if if what I
knew now about water parks, had I known it then, if I would have
(14:35):
even gone. Like to not put your butt hole
on the on the vents? Well, I think that goes without
saying, but I mean, just the, the, the thought that you are
swimming with other people's butt holes and, you know,
chlorine there. Yeah, there's chlorine, but does
(14:57):
that make you feel safe? You sure about that?
You're swimming with small children who tend to not hold
their their urine very well. Yeah, they go pee pees.
They, they just, they're like I'm in the water.
It's like I'm swimming in a toilet and I'm like, EW, it's
(15:19):
like you're swimming in a toilet.
OK. Yeah.
So from the outside, it almost looks like a like a hall.
Like, you know, if you go to thethe Washington State Fair, they
have all the halls that have allthe people selling their wares
and shit. It kind of just looks like one
of those. So yeah, I don't know how well
(15:41):
it was like advertised. It's kind of a new thing to me,
even, you know, I said. I don't really remember going
when I was a kid, but I don't really remember hearing about it
as an adult. I have a vague memory of it
being pretty prominent on Knott's Berry Farm advertising
at the time. Oh, was it?
(16:02):
Yeah. You know, newspaper article or
ads, TV ads, just, you know, really leaning into the whole
mystery element to just to kind of create some intrigue.
Because I mean, if you tried it,I think if you leaned into the
Native American element of it, that it probably wouldn't have
(16:25):
sold as well. Yeah.
But, yeah, and, you know, this is before the Internet, really.
And, you know, there wasn't a lot out there.
You didn't have much to go on. It's like, oh, the mystery
lodge. It's like, well, what is that?
(16:46):
What is the mystery lodge? Cuz they're not telling you.
They're not telling you what it is.
And it's like, here's this thingthat we got, you should check it
out. It's got a cool name.
What's the mystery Lodge? That's the mystery.
So this was a collaboration between Knott's own creative
(17:09):
storytellers and the visual effects geniuses at BRC
Imagination Arts, helmed by Bob Rogers.
We we all know Bob Rogers. There's no need to talk about
Bob Rogers. We all we all know Bob Rogers,
right? Totally.
He was AI believe before he kindof struck out on his own.
(17:31):
He worked for Disney. He is a visual visual engineer
for for Disney. Oh, is that right?
I believe so. So is he an imagineer or just a
like an animator? Kind of, yeah.
I don't think an imagineer wouldwould be the right title, but
what he actually did for Disney I don't know.
(17:51):
I just know that he did work forDisney before he started his own
company. OK, I'm trying to Google him and
I'm getting a lot of different. I'm getting Robert Rogers,
Roberta Rogers, Bobby Rogers, Bob Ross.
(18:12):
Don't know where that one came from.
But so yeah, going through the show, you said you start out,
you go in this kind of pre show area and there's is there
anything there? Is it like part of the show or
is it is? Are there things to look at or?
Yeah. I mean, I can't remember what
(18:33):
was on the walls, but I do remember, like I said, that kind
of the the the end of this longhouse being kind of built
into the wall and then like kindof forest scene surrounding it.
I don't recall if there was a campfire in the middle of the
room or something like that. I don't remember exactly, but
(18:58):
yeah, you do walk into this hall.
I mean, you know, the the building and you're walking into
the kind of this outdoor setting.
And like I said, it's just a bigopen room.
From what I can remember, it's abig open room and you just kind
of hang out there for presumablythere's another show in progress
(19:20):
inside the lodge and that's why you're waiting there.
But you know, you've got narrators kind of talking about
elements of, of Native American lore, mythology, history.
You've got, you know, visuals you've got like the moon that
kind of appears up in the sky. And I think it's like a a
(19:47):
handful of minutes before they actually let you into the lodge.
There's a, there's a, a narratorsaying, oh, you know, something
along the lines of like, there's, you know, there's a
storm coming and you're, you know, you're going, going to be
going into the lodge soon. Finer details of that I don't
(20:13):
remember, but it does eventuallyopen up.
Several doors, I mean, across the entire length of this
longhouse wall opens up several doors and you all, they let you
in. And it's an amphitheater setting
all circled around this stage, which is designed to look like
(20:38):
the inside of this lodge. I mean, the whole room, the
whole room is like the inside ofthis lodge, but there's a stage
area where the actor moves around and it's behind a big
sheet of glass and it tells you that this is this.
The glass is to prevent a perfect, sorry, protect you from
(21:02):
smoke effects, but there's no actual smoke effects.
It's all part of the the illusion, Michael.
Mystery. Yeah, the mystery.
Wait, so they so they break the K fame to tell you that this
glass is to protect you from smoke effects which don't
actually exist? Yeah, it's it's all
(21:24):
misdirection. They're telling you the glass is
there to protect from smoke effects, but there's no actual
smoke. The smoke is all generated by a
projector, which I mean, we get into these details later or, or
now, however you want to do it. But the whole show is based on
a, a version of Pepper's ghost, the whole thing, I mean, aside
(21:48):
from the, the, the actor himself.
And so the, the glass is, is part of that.
It's not for smoke. It's to catch reflections from
the from the projectors, so. A little.
Bit of misdirection, but a but aclever way.
(22:08):
Yeah, I mean, so much of this stuff, like we talked about it
in the Haunted Mansion episode, but like so much of this kind of
stuff is just old magician tricks.
Yeah, exactly. And it's just all like, it's
literally smoke and mirrors. But yeah, I mean, whereas
Haunted Mansion was a, a, a truePepper's ghost, you know, you
(22:29):
had a separate room of moving figures casting a reflection
against glass. This was a projector.
This was a movie essentially casting a reflection rather than
having a, a completely separate room of moving parts.
(22:51):
And so when I was doing my research about this, I actually
realized that that was pretty revolutionary.
And it was actually, there was a, a, a patent filed for it
because Pepper's ghost in its true form requires so much space
because you got to create basically a, a, a duplicate of,
(23:14):
of a room that you're trying to reflect.
And this version, you can minimize that space because all
you're doing is using a projector.
So whereas you know, the HauntedMansion, you know is what, like
2-3 stories tall? Yeah, at least 2.
(23:36):
The yeah, the this version was barely, barely taller than the
normal, you know, theater theater height, I guess, but
barely taller than than that. Because all they're storing away
is a is a projector. Interesting.
(23:56):
I mean, for real quick, for anybody who might not know what
a Pepper's Ghost illusion is, it, it is basically like a
mirror and like I think it's just a sheet of glass and they
take in this case a projector, but usually it's an actual
physical object. And just through kind of
reflections, you get this translucent, you know, they'll
(24:18):
shine a light through the glass,and it'll create this kind of
translucent duplicate of the item.
And so that's why the Haunted Mansion uses it.
And you get these. It looks like a ghost because
you can see through it, but it'sactually just a projection.
Not a projection, but a reflection of a physical thing
(24:38):
that's like Tony said, in another room.
Yeah. I don't know if I.
Described that well, but you getthe idea.
Also, a pepper's ghost is when you eat something spicy and then
crop. Does somebody OK, I just made
that up? That's that's not real.
It's a fake thing. Made it up.
(24:59):
Shouldn't have done that. What about a Ghost Peppers
Ghost, Yeah. That's going to really burn your
ass. That's that's deadly.
That's, I mean a ghost pepper ghost.
You could be trying to crop to someone and end up just lava
shitting your pants. Darting.
(25:23):
Just making a mess. Suddenly you feel something warm
dripping down your leg. Shit.
Don't shit, don't shit, don't shit.
Nobody else. Don't look at me.
Don't look at me. OK, so you walk into this
theater and is there anything onthe stage at this point?
(25:47):
Yeah. I mean, so it's a complete 360
setting. I mean, you're, you're inside
this lodge. There is a corner of the lodge
or part of the lodge that is encased behind this glass.
But it, it, it's not especially different.
(26:09):
I mean, it's all kind of, it kind of flows into the rest of
the lodge, but there is a like afire pit in the middle of it.
And I mean, aside from that, there's nothing really of note
that I can recall. OK.
And then the lights go out or ordown at least.
(26:34):
Or am I just watching a very dark video?
Yeah, well, it's a very dark attraction by design.
I don't, I don't recall exactly how it starts.
You know, you get in there and the stage area is empty.
(26:55):
There's nobody there. And at some point the the
speaker appears, whether they lower the lights and he's
suddenly there or if he walks onto the stage, probably not
walking on because that would kind of be contrary to the whole
idea of this, you know, magical storytelling that they're, that
(27:16):
they're putting together. So there's probably some
illusion. Well, yeah, the lights go down
or, or lightning flashes or something, and then suddenly
he's there. Yeah, it does.
It does look like there's like music that kind of starts
playing and there is a flash of lightning and then this, this
speaker appears. And so this, this is a real
person. Yes.
(27:36):
And I was very uncertain about that for a very long time
because, you know, I'd seen the,you know, the Hall of Presidents
and, you know, these are animatronic effects that were
developed in the the 50s or 60s.And to this day, they're very
(27:57):
impressive. So at the time it's like, OK,
well, you, you know, add 30 years of technology to that and
it's like, sure, maybe this could be an animatronic.
Yeah. Hey, Tony, what's up?
What? What does Abraham Lincoln say in
the Hall of Presidents? Welcome to the Hall of
Presidents. Another Bill and Ted call back.
(28:24):
That's so us. Have you seen the new Walt
animatronic? Yeah.
It doesn't really look like him.Not so much.
It looks more like Roy. I saw somebody say it looks like
Mike Lindell and I can't see anything else now, but but the
movement of it is crazy. It's so good.
(28:48):
Yeah, like he stands up and walks across the room.
And I mean from what I hear he completely matches Walt's gate.
Wow. I said he's a person, don't
humanize the robots. Those Disney animatronics are
getting crazy. Well, yeah, the first time
(29:10):
because we did. We go on smugglers run together
for the first time. When we went, was that the first
time you went on it? Yeah, yes, yeah.
OK, yeah, I remember the. Had you been on it before?
I don't remember, I might have Ibecause I don't remember when I
(29:36):
went with Nazgoda if it was openthen.
But anyways, the first time I went on it, that Hondo
animatronic, I was like, oh, that's a person, That's a guy in
a suit. And then like, it took me a a
couple seconds to a minute to belike, Oh no shit, that's an
animatronic. Yeah, yeah.
And I mean like even something like the animatronics they put
(29:59):
in that Tiana's Bayou adventure,is that what they're calling it?
Yeah, when I first saw the animatronics were there for
that. It's like the, I mean, they're
cartoons obviously, or, you know, live representations of,
of cartoon characters, but the fluidity of them was incredible.
(30:22):
Like I, I couldn't believe what I was looking at.
And so, and then, you know, theyactually develop.
Well, I, I, I think the net the probably the first time I really
realized how good these animatronics were getting was
when they put Jack Sparrow in Pirates.
Yeah. And I was convinced that that
(30:42):
was an actor. Well, like, I mean, a lot of
people's big complaint about that is that you really kind of
get the dichotomy of old versus new and you can really compare
how good the new animatronic is compared to the the old ones
that are, you know, swinging around and their arms aren't
moving anywhere and they're basically doing the robot.
(31:07):
Yeah. I didn't realize this was a live
action actor in Mystery Lodge. I always thought it was an
animatronic. Again, I haven't seen it.
If I did, I was a a little baby and I don't remember but from
what I knew of the show I thought it featured an
animatronic. Yeah, I, I went back and forth a
lot of times over the course of my life, but I am all but
(31:32):
totally certain that this that it is an actor because the way
that the way that it the actor moves across the room like the
you, you can't there, there was no way even the, you know, the
millions of dollars that they threw at this, there's no way
(31:54):
that 1994 they developed an animatronic that could freely
move, move around A room. Yeah, this was before the like,
Boston mechanics, robots and stuff.
So yeah. So you know, when, when you're a
kid, you don't really think thatwhat's, what's the word
(32:19):
thoroughly, I guess methodicallythat's the word.
There you go. OK, yeah, but so he's, he's
physically in the room, right? Like he's not a Pepper's ghost.
Correct. OK.
And so he, he comes out, he starts talking about this owl
and he's like he, you know, thisowl looked at me and basically
(32:42):
that this is supposed to signifythat he's going to die soon.
Yeah, I, I believe in, I don't know if it's just Native
American culture in general or if it's just, you know, Pacific
Northwest tribes, but yeah, they're, they're the, the owl is
like a harbinger of death. Off topic as we are want to do,
(33:08):
but have you? I saw this cartoon and it's Ozzy
Osbourne walking hand in hand through the pearly gates with
Paddington. Ozzy's like, oh man, the drugs
up here are good. I can't believe I'm walking with
Winnie the Pooh. And Paddington is like, actually
(33:28):
my name's Paddington. I'm the Angel of death and Ozzy
says so. All this time we've been singing
about a stuffed bear and a duffer coat and Paddington's,
like, I'm as surprised as you are.
(33:51):
That's awesome. That's so weird.
All right. Be Aussie.
Yeah, the timing of that was crazy.
Yeah, it was like 2 weeks after that big concert.
Was it even that long? I maybe I don't know, but it was
not long. Yeah.
(34:11):
Have you seen the video of Papa singing Bark at the Moon?
Yeah, you seem unimpressed. He didn't sound great.
OK, I watched it on mute becauseI was at work so I haven't
actually heard it. Yeah, I mean, he was just not
hitting certain notes and so it just kind of sounded off.
(34:34):
Papa has a very specific here wego on the Pope cast.
Papa has a a very specific range.
And so I feel like there's some songs that it's just like that.
That ain't it. You're not quite there, Toby.
It's Toby, he, he said to himself.
(34:54):
Like, you know, my voice sounds better when it's got layers.
You know, when I, when I've got layers of, of singing different
notes. I mean like different keys, not
different keys, but yeah, different notes.
(35:15):
Basically harmonizing with himself.
Harmonizing with himself. Yeah, he says.
I my voice just sounds better that way.
I mean, that's, that's how my voice sounds Good.
It's like, all right, well, fairenough.
Yeah, as long as long as you know it and, you know, stay
within your lane. He came out and performed for
(35:36):
some kind of ceremony or honoring queen and he's he did
OK and he didn't sound that great on that either.
Yeah, he did. Bohemian Rhapsody.
Yeah, and you know, Freddie, it's hard, hard to get even
close to Freddie. Yeah.
(35:57):
So I'm not going to hold that against him, but.
And it's not that he Can't Sing other people's songs.
He's the, I mean, Ghost has doneplenty of covers and they sound
great, but it's just, like I said, it's a very specific
range. And so he has to know how to do
the song in that range. Anyway, that was way off topic.
(36:20):
OK, so this guy thinks he's going to die, but he says he's
he feels fine, right? But I mean, I don't know if
you'll know the answer to this, but how like scripted is it?
Is it like the same every singleshow?
Oh, so I don't think the actor is actually speaking.
(36:41):
Oh, OK. I'm pretty sure it's a voice
over. OK, so then yes, it's the same
every single time. Yeah, yeah.
And, you know, just because you're dealing with a live actor
that is working with predetermined effects, you have
to maintain that consistency. That makes sense.
(37:03):
Lol and knowing that it is an actor, I am even more impressed
that the actor can always hit those marks to be cued with
those effects, at least every time that I'd seen it.
Yeah, the the effects are, are they pre like is it there's not
(37:28):
like somebody in a booth somewhere pushing buttons to
make the effects go off. It's just a constant, like a
consistent thing. Yeah, no, it's like I said, it's
a a projector. It's basically just running a
movie. OK.
So yeah, it's just timing is is is a crucial factor.
Yeah, they must have this thing.Just memorize T to B.
(37:52):
Yeah, so he starts. Telling the story about his
grandmother, telling stories around the campfire.
And this is when you kind of getsome of those smoke effects.
And so this, this smoke is just a Pepper's ghost.
Yep. Because when I first watched it,
I was like, oh, that? It's just like a smoke machine.
(38:13):
Yeah, no, all an illusion. Wow, Yeah.
I mean that it really does look like it's right there, like it's
just a smoke machine going off. But is the actor wearing a mask?
I I think so, yeah. OK.
And that's what was so confusingis that the face looked fake,
(38:36):
but the way the mouth moved looked real.
Oh, the mouth moved. Because yeah, I mean when he's
when he's talking, you can see like, you know, annunciations in
in in in the way his his mouth moves.
It's not like a like a cartoon character where you're just
going, you know, like. Watermelon.
(38:58):
Watermelon. So yeah, I think it is a mask,
but it's so dark it's it's really hard to make these things
out. Which I mean, the darkness was
obviously to protect the effects, but it also helped kind
(39:18):
of disguise things like having aan actor wearing A at least a
facial appliance. I don't know if it was a a mask.
That could be like just maybe the top half or something.
That's why the mouth, you can tell that it's articulating.
But so he starts telling this story and he's talking about all
the different, like animals and trees and stuff.
(39:40):
And as he's talking, the smoke is changing form to make all
these shapes. Like it turns into salmon
jumping across the river and it turns into a tree and different
birds. That's a really cool effect.
Yeah, and you know, when I was growing up in California, a lot
(40:05):
of the native or indigenous talkwas for Southwestern tribes and,
you know, the people who. Were subjected to mission life
and, you know, like the people who were, who were along the
(40:27):
path of, you know, Catholic missionaries, that type of stuff
didn't have really much exposureat all to Pacific Northwest
tribes. And so it was kind of would
irony be the right word? Coincidental, I guess, probably
(40:50):
more accurate. It's just very coincidental that
a year later I moved up here. And then, you know, the, the
history and iconography of Native American tribes in the
Pacific Northwest region is is everywhere.
It's it's part of the culture now.
(41:11):
I mean, we've got cities named after Native American words
Sports. Teams.
Sports teams. So you saw this, you saw Mystery
Lodge, and you were like, boom, got to go to the Northwest.
Yeah, totally. It's not like I, you know, left
California kicking and screaming.
(41:33):
So he starts telling the story about the, you know, the earth
and basically how the, you know,the Native American beliefs that
all things have souls and all things, you know that the song
from Pocahontas. Colors the wind or something.
(41:54):
That's yeah, you got it, man. Great cover by Suburban Legends,
by the way. Didn't Vanessa Williams sing the
one for the soundtrack? I have no idea.
I thought that was so I'm prettysure that is the case.
And I thought that was weird when when movies would do that,
(42:14):
it's like they'd have these actors, these voice actors and
or singing voiced actors to do the songs in the movie.
But then on the soundtrack it'd be like some well known actor or
a well known, well known musician singing the soundtrack
version. It's like, why didn't you just
use the one that's in the movie?Because they need to have a
(42:37):
famous singer do it. Fine, sure.
Because people want to hear famous singers.
They don't want to hear fucking.I don't know whoever did the
voice of Pocahontas, I don't know who it was.
Some lady. Just like how friggin Jerry
(42:57):
Dandridge was the voice of Jack Skellington, but Danny Elfman
sang all the songs. Yeah, and nobody noticed.
Somehow. Nobody.
Noticed. Why does Jack Skellington sound
so much like Angle Boingo? I don't know, it's weird.
In hindsight, how did they not put Dead Man's Party in A
(43:21):
Nightmare Before Christmas? Ending credits.
It's perfect. Have Jack Skellington dancing
around singing Dead Man's Party.He's the dead man.
He's the dead. Man, he's the one having the
party. And the party is Halloween.
It's yes, you got it. Come on guys, we shouldn't have
(43:47):
to write this for you. But we will if you want to hire
us. So he starts talking about, you
know, the different kind of beliefs that natives have of the
like the Raven is a trickster and the Thunderbird is the
bringer of lightning. And as he's telling the story,
the flames from the fire and thesmoke are creating all these
(44:07):
different shapes. You know, it creates a Raven
that flies across the sky and itcreates the shape of a
Thunderbird. And so he's telling these
stories and every time he talks about, you know, something, a
different animal or something, it the smoke will change shape
and create the story. And then he starts talking about
(44:31):
these celebrations. And this time it's not the
smoke, but it's just this is where it's really clearly a
Pepper's ghost. You see this I, you know, some
kind of dancer wearing like a bird head and it's, I mean, it's
actually a multiple people just dancing and, and, and they're
(44:52):
all wearing these. They're.
Bird heads, basically, I guess they're all wearing these, you
know, these garments. And so, yeah, it's you're
looking at them, but they're notthere.
Like you, you see the physical storyteller standing there, but
then these dancers are that it looks like ghosts.
(45:17):
And So what I mean, what is the basic premise of the story he's
telling? I mean, really it's just talking
about Native American culture and kind of the belief system
and and the the magic of it. I guess not to, you know,
(45:40):
demunitize it. Trivialize.
Sure, yeah. But I mean, that's kind of, I
think that's the the general purpose of it is just to tell
kind of a little bit about Native American culture and
their belief system. I mean, there's an overarching
(46:03):
message of life and family and, you know, just living, living,
living. Well, I guess so it's a it's a
positive message. It seems like there's a little
bit of like respecting Mother Earth kind of in there too.
(46:26):
Yeah. Although it's funny, this part
that I just paused that right now he's talking about when I
was young, I was very handsome and all the girls wanted to be
with me. It just kind of sounds like a
Donald Trump story. When I was young, all the girls,
they wanted me. All the girls, they said,
Donald, you're so handsome. Never happened.
(46:50):
This one girl, she was so beautiful.
She was the most beautiful girl in the whole world.
You wouldn't believe. You'd be like, Oh my God, she's
14. She was 14.
But that doesn't matter. Allegedly.
Allegedly. But we know, we know.
(47:13):
Yeah, he tells a story about this, this woman that he met and
they got married and had a child.
And the whole time he's telling the story again, the smoke is
forming the shape of these two bodies, and they start having
sex. And it's all very graphic.
There's a spunk flying everywhere.
He's doing her doggy style. That's crazy.
(47:34):
This was for children. She's like down on her knees.
And no, none of that happens. It's very classy.
But the the flames do turn into the shapes of bodies.
And then, you know, you see her.This baby just kind of
(47:55):
materializes. That's not how babies are made.
No stork brings them. Everyone knows that they could
have done it twice. I.
Think I know. They could have made a stork out
of smoke. Way to phone it in knots.
Like Tony said, if there's a message of family and so he's
(48:16):
talking about teaching his childto fish and to swim and row and
boat, Tony and I are the only ones that get that reference.
Yep, this is what you have sex for.
Many guys at a time and it's notgay.
(48:38):
It's not gay. But he starts talking about he
starts talking about God. Oh Nope.
I think I got to say the closed captions on this video are
(48:58):
pretty bad. Every time.
He was saying owl before it keptsaying all.
But he starts talking about how his children, you know, grow up
and now they have children of their own.
And he's a grandfather. And now he's that's why he's all
old and but he still thinks his wife is the most beautiful woman
(49:18):
in the world. But high rule.
And the oh, I don't think these are right.
You know, start talking about Zelda.
The smoke is turning into a skull, it looks.
Like. Oh no, it's the owl.
It's the owl. Uh oh.
It looks exactly like owl from Winnie the Pooh.
(49:42):
But so. That's an owl.
You are fucked. I mean, basically that's what
he's trying to tell us. He's like, well, there's an owl.
So I guess my time is up. Thanks.
I thank you very much. I've been your host.
I'm to the left. I'm going to go die now, but it
(50:02):
turns out the whole time it was just a Raven because he's the
trickster. A little prick.
Raven, Raven. Son of a bitch.
Sneaky fucker. So how does this end?
I forget what leads into it exactly what elements you know
you're seeing right there. He he turns into a bird and that
(50:24):
I mean, knowing how the the effects behind it, it's
impressive because he turns intoa bird and the the live actor
disappears. I don't know how unless he just
like drops on the floor and sneaks away.
It's. Got to be a trap door or
something. Maybe, but he does reappear back
(50:48):
in his human form. And then at the very end, God,
I, I can't remember exactly. If I can remember the beats of
the story, that would help, but I, I can't remember exactly what
happens. He does say, you know, some
version of farewell, I believe. And then he disappears again.
(51:11):
And the only thing that's left on the stage is his cane, which
sits there for a second and thenfalls to the floor.
Well, that's a cool effect. Yeah, and I have no idea how
they did it. Yeah, he, I mean, he just, it
looks like the lights just kind of go down and he, yeah, he must
(51:32):
kind of slink away and he turns into this this bird.
And then there's it. I don't know if it's supposed to
be heaven or what, but it's justlike all these clouds across the
stage and like the moonlight. And then, yeah, all that clears
up and he walks back out. He's like, oh, here I am.
I'm fine, don't worry about it. Fool.
(51:55):
You. I'm a Raven, remember?
Oh. No, wait, he's not the Raven.
He's the rabbit. No, he's the walrus.
Hi, I'm the walrus. Oh, there's the cane.
Yeah, the cane just stands there.
How do they do that? No idea fishing wire.
(52:18):
I mean, the only thing I can think is that the actor puts the
cane in like maybe some kind of a hole in the ground or some
kind of locking mechanism that holds for, you know, a beat and
then releases and then falls to the floor.
(52:40):
Could be. How they can get it to fall the
same way every time instead of like, you know, bouncing across
the floor, I don't know. Yeah, this these subtitles call
Mystery Lodge Mr. Dodge. So that kind of tells you what
we're working with here. Get ahold, Mr. Dodge.
(53:00):
That's that's the storyteller's name.
You didn't know the whole time, but it's Mr. Dodge.
So unfortunately it appears thatMystery Lodge closed for
refurbishment, quote UN quote, in 2019.
And then, you know, things happened in 2020.
I'm sure you guys remember and Mystery Lodge has not been seen
(53:24):
since and by all indications it probably is not going to reopen.
Yeah, I was reading that there was a rumor.
It's not a very salacious rumor,but a rumor that a custom part
of the projector they use broke and the cost to replace it was
(53:49):
just not worth it. I saw this too.
Did you? Yeah, that seems crazy to to
have to shut down an entire attraction, you know, having
this space in your park that is taking up space not being used.
(54:12):
I mean, it's it's like having a a, a house for sale that that
isn't selling. It's just costing money so to
leave it closed instead of either tearing it down or
replacing the the supposed part so you can get it back up and
operational again. Seems like one or the other
(54:33):
should have been done by now. Yeah, I, I'm surprised that if,
if that's the case, that it's not going to reopen, then I'm
surprised they haven't made moves to put something else in
there. Yeah, apparently they've been
using it for Knott's Scary Farm mazes and shows, which, you
(54:58):
know, you might as well. I mean, the, the, the way that
it's set up is perfect for, you know, things requiring a
Pepper's ghost, which plays really well into, you know,
horror stories and ghost storiesand things.
Yeah, they've actually been using it for for Knott's Scary
Farm since 2000 to 2000. It's in 2000 it was a maze
(55:22):
called Voodoo Witch Project. You can tell what was popular
then. From 2001 to 2004, it was a maze
called Blood Bayou. From 2005 to 2008, it was 13 Axe
Murder Manor. From 2009 to 2012, it was Terror
of London. That's that's good.
I like that. From 2013 to 2015, it was
(55:45):
forever more. I don't know what that is.
From 2016 to 2019, it was special OPS infected, which
sounds like a Call of Duty level.
And in 2022 it was called the Grim War.
And then obviously in 2020 and 2021, well, in 2021 they did
(56:06):
have a show in there called Invitation to Terror.
Terror. Yeah.
And then in 2012 they had a showcalled Unearthed, and in 2013
they had a show called Possessed.
I don't know what these shows were.
Couldn't find any information onthem other than that, but.
(56:27):
But I bet they were spooky. Hell, a spooky.
So spooky, dude. So anyway, yeah, I just learned
today that it's that it was closed and that that bums me out
because it was really fun. Just just the show was is fun to
(56:50):
watch. It was entertaining.
And to to see how well the effects you work.
I mean, even by today's standards, these effects are
pretty impressive, especially thinking about the fact that
they used them 30 years ago. Right.
Yeah. I mean, just from watching the
video, it's, it's impressive to see what they do.
(57:11):
And, you know, then I imagine being there in person, it's even
more impressive. Yeah.
You know this was developed. I can't remember if you actually
mentioned this or not, but it was developed originally for the
World Fair in 1986. I did not mention that because I
didn't know that. No, yeah, it's, it was, it was
(57:32):
called the Spirit Lodge. It was, it didn't have the, the,
the, the dressing that Mystery Lodge did.
I mean, it was, it was in one ofthe the World's Fair halls and
it was the Spirit Lodge was one of three different shows that
(57:57):
used these similar Pepper's ghost effects.
So this was in 1986, so almost 10 years before Mystery Lodge
even opened. So this is actually like almost
40 year old technology. Damn.
Still being pretty impressive. Yeah.
I mean, you know, there are things that they could do now
(58:18):
that would take it, you know, bump it up a notch and bring it
into the 21st century. But you, you, you wouldn't have.
You don't need to because the effects still work.
And apparently they won't because parts are too expensive.
It's. Like put a new fucking projector
(58:40):
in there. Yeah, it's just it.
I find that. Hard to it won't break.
I find it hard to believe that there there's one piece that's
that's just derailing everything.
Yeah, unless the piece is like the whole projector.
But even then, like you're telling me, you can't make a new
(59:01):
one. So this opened in June 1994 and
it cost $10 million to build in June 2025.
S in today's dollars that would have cost 20, so basically
(59:25):
double if they built that today it would cost almost $22
million. So, you know, think of that kind
of money back then was was $10 million.
(59:46):
I mean, obviously the the building and the set and the
effects all had their cost association.
But if they really did use some kind of custom projector that I
imagine that probably came with a pretty heavy price tag as
well. Sure.
Yeah. And I wonder if they just think
(01:00:07):
that the the return on investment is not there on
something like this when they could go build a roller coaster
instead. And that could be, but again,
why they haven't done so. Yeah, do something.
Six years now it's. I don't know figure it out
(01:00:27):
knots. That's why I said so figure it
out. All right, final thoughts on
Mystery Lodge? You know, fucking RIP.
It was, it was, it was a fun time.
And I feel bad for anybody who might go to Knots and not be
(01:00:47):
able to experience it because itwas definitely, it was like
people go to Disney and they go to Hall of Presidents so they
can sit down. And this was similar, except
this was much more entertaining than Hall of Presidents.
(01:01:09):
And no one is yelling slurs at the storyteller.
So yeah, it's a bummer it's closed, but it was a fun time
and I'm I'm glad that there are videos of it at least.
I'm I'm sad I never got to experience it or if I did I
don't remember so. Yeah, all.
(01:01:32):
Right. Well, I mean, obviously, you
know, it, it's, it's, it made animpression on me that, you know,
30 years later is still resonating.
So. It lives on in the hearts and
minds of those who remember it. Right.
And for that reason, it will never truly be gone.
(01:01:53):
Or something. Especially if they never
actually knocked down the building.
You're right. All right, go ahead and promote
your stuff. Well, I mean, obviously I'm part
of the Grave Plot podcast and we'll be back here in a couple,
few few months. But aside from that, I am a part
(01:02:15):
time semi professional artist. You can check me out at
skeletonyart.com. All my links to my socials are
on my website, but basically youjust put skeletony art at the
end of any social media website and you you'll probably find me.
Bring money and. You can buy buy stuff for me,
(01:02:36):
Yeah, because writing a businessis expensive, especially when
you're not active actively making.
And Tony's got kids. I do got kids all.
Right. Well.
I have to buy baby formula. Go buy stuff from Tony and keep
(01:03:02):
on listening. We'll see you in a couple weeks.
Thank you. Goodbye.
Your attention please. This episode of Wild Mouse has
concluded. Make sure to rate, review and
subscribe on your favorite podcast player and follow us on
social media at Wild Mouse Podcast.
Don't forget to visit the gift shop at wildmousepodcast.com for
(01:03:26):
exclusive bonus content. Become a premium pass holder at
patreon.com/wild Mouse Podcast. We hope you enjoyed your time
and will visit us again soon. Thank you and good night.
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