November 29, 2023 • 58 mins
In this episode, I have a connective walk and talk with Orion Haas, a long-time friend, brother, and collaborator amongst the jungle on the outskirts of Tulum, Mexico. Orion speaks into the early months of our friendship, then diving into our time and work in Nepal which brought us into a post-disaster, service-oriented community and the contrast to the living situation then in Tulum as a newly married man to Mariana, who was the guest in the previous episode. He offers insight into their lifestyle decision to live life with as little plastics and inorganic waste as possible while maintaining a connection and sense of responsibility to the natural environment and the elements. In essence, Orion shares why a conscious impact is not only important but vital to living an aligned, value-driven life. We converse about community living and the difference he has experienced when the community has a collective sense of purpose. The conversation then shifts towards the ubiquitous and profound quesiton of "What does it mean to be human?" and his purpose of late of deepening his learnings and practice of Ayurveda, an ancient form of medical sciences from India dating back thousands of years. There is a bonus something at the end of the episode ;)
Connect w/ Orion via @orionhaas (https://instagram.com/orionhaas) or Facebook (https://facebook.com/orion.haas).
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On the next episode - we move continents to South America to coastal Ecuador where I converse with a dear friend, Beth Huggins.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome back to the Wilderness Within.
(00:03):
Today's guest is quite special in my world.
Orion and I met in the summer of 2009 when I was about to enter my last year in my undergraduate
studies.
And for Orion, he had already been working for the organization for a year or two in
Honduras in the public health and water programs.
(00:23):
We were both young and energetic and eager to do what we can, apply our knowledge and
our studies with other people that shared his vision for a better world.
And even though we worked in different offices, for me in Panama for the environmental program
and for him in Honduras, we've always kept this line of connection.
For Orion, he later moved on to be the founder of the programs in Ghana in West Africa.
(00:49):
And luck would have it that we would meet up in the jungles of Panama, deep in the tropical
rainforest in central Panama with Nathan Gray, who at the time was the founder and director
of EarthTrain.
We took a workshop with about a dozen other participants on deep ecology, systems thinking,
economic development, the complexities of weaving in indigenous knowledge, centuries
(01:13):
and centuries of colonization, how to still put ecology and planets and living things
above profits when the predominant system is a capital centered, human centered system.
And so naturally, as you can imagine, for those of you who know me personally, quite
a few in common.
And so even though Orion and I never shared an office as being colleagues in 2010, 11,
(01:39):
12, we became more aware of each other's interest and communication styles.
We were able to cross paths physically in early 2013 when he was living in Long Beach,
California at a time.
And for me, I was about to depart on a multi-month bicycle tour.
We reconnected really beautifully.
And since then, we've held a friendship that has been very dear and near to my heart.
(02:02):
He's also one of the main reasons why I decided to go over to Nepal after the devastating
earthquakes that I talked about in Mariana's episode, and hence the founding of Conscious
Impact.
He's one of the co-founders of that organization that's really become a huge focal and pivotal
point in my life.
(02:23):
So Orion is definitely someone that I look up to as an older brother, as a friend, as
a mentor at times.
And he's been there through a lot of my life story and I have for him.
I really hope you enjoyed this conversation with a dear friend and brother, Orion Haas.
(03:00):
Here we are, Orion Haas.
Thank you for doing this with me.
Yeah, man.
Thanks for coming to Tulum to visit, say hey, and keep spreading your light and joy around
the world.
We've seen each other in a lot of different places.
Just keep adding to it.
Yeah.
(03:21):
Yeah.
And each place is different, has different energy, has different spaces, has different
natural landscapes that we always get to explore together.
It's fun and it's been a great last few days.
It serves really well as my last week in Mexico.
(03:41):
Yeah, we haven't been together in the jungle since Panama, I think, 2009.
Yeah.
I was doing a walk down memory lane today looking at some photos for another project
I was working on.
You were taking pictures back then, really beautiful ones of us hiking through the jungle
(04:02):
with Nathan Gray.
2009.
Earth Chain Project.
Yeah.
2009, 2010.
That's a throwback.
Here we are in 2022, walking the jungle again.
Describe to us where we are and how this walk is significant to you.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, we're walking just a few hundred meters outside of one of the neighborhoods of Tulum,
(04:26):
one of the more fast growing neighborhoods of Tulum called La Valletta.
Tulum, major international tourist hub, city that's growing and growing in the last seven
or eight years has really exploded in the number of tourists that come here from all
over the world.
Was once a very small town is now becoming a bigger and bigger urban environment with
(04:49):
different neighborhoods.
The way place that we live here on the edge of La Valletta is under a lot of construction.
It's got a lot of new buildings coming in and more and more people want to leave wherever
they are to come here to Mexico to live in this part of the world.
But then the neighborhood fades into the surrounding jungle.
(05:13):
I try to come for a walk out here in this forest area.
As many times as I can each week in the evenings when I'm done working just to feel the natural
landscape a bit away from the hustle and bustle and construction.
And so you get to hear the birds and see some of the little creatures that live in the forest
(05:35):
here and then you know, there's usually some construction in the far distance that I can
hear.
Yeah, like right now we can hear what could be a jackhammer.
Yeah.
But for the most part we are surrounded by the woods and some bird songs.
Yeah, a lot of trees here, the breeze blowing through, a lot of green and these roads that
(05:59):
kind of weave through this area that may, you know, in the not too distant future become
an expanded part of the city of Tulum.
So it's at this turning point here where the jungle meets the city and human beings are
making decisions about what this land will look like for the next 50 years.
(06:24):
And yeah, some of those decisions are a little concerning.
Tell me about the contrast of the living situation you have had with Mariana in the last few
months versus that in which both of you are used to.
Let's say back at our camp in Nepal.
Yeah, you know, I've lived a lot of places in this world as have you and since 2015,
(06:52):
so in the last six or seven years, the main place that I've lived has been in the mountains
of Nepal on our project Conscious Impact with a lot of our friends and community there as
well as my partner and wife Mariana.
So we're used to living outside and there we spend most of our time living in a tent
(07:12):
as did all of our volunteers and friends and community from around the world that came
there and at the beginning we were cooking on fire outside and rebuilding after a massive
earthquake and so there wasn't much city or development as they say around that area.
It's just pure mountains and clean air and clean water and traditional community of Nepalese
(07:38):
that live nearby.
But when COVID hit, after a few months of staying there in the mountains to kind of
watch how the world would be affected, we came back to this side of the world in part
because we wanted to get married and see our family and go through that ritual and in part
because we knew it was a time of transition for us and our lives and globally a transition
(08:01):
period so we came back to this side of the world to see what was next and to see at this
time in our life as we're in our 30s, mid 30s to figure out what we could do for work
to be able to try and generate some money which is not something we had done in many
years and so after we got married and kind of looked at a few different places, Mariana
(08:27):
is from Mexico and so we thought okay well why don't we go somewhere where we can sort
of settle for the year and be in Mexico and here we are in Tulum.
Yeah it's different to live in a city than it has been to be living in the mountains.
A lot of things are easier in a city and a lot of things are harder and I think for us
(08:49):
some of the things that are harder are what we've noticed more.
It's harder to live with a low impact on the world, on the environment, it's harder to
live without making trash, it's harder to live without consuming and buying and spending
money and making money.
We were used to living on rice that was grown locally and beans that had been brought in
(09:12):
from not that far away and some local veggies, not too much plastic, not too much importation
and not too much consumption in general, you know we would go months without really using
a lot of money where we were.
But now it's much more around consumption and especially in a place like here where
(09:33):
everybody's coming in as tourists and visitors, people are coming for experiences and so there's
tons of restaurants, tons of things that you can do to spend money on and tons of things
you can buy and most of them are very wasteful, they leave an impact behind including just
us being here, you know, renting a place as you see here in this part of the forest.
(09:56):
Everything is for sale and lotted and set for development to fill this growing need
for accommodations.
But at the same time there's a lot of good people here, a lot of good food and beautiful
beach and...
Things to tap into.
The history of the older or ancient Mayan culture that was here and the ruins of that,
(10:22):
but yeah to see what our modern humanity is doing amidst the ruins of traditional culture
can be disheartening and confusing sometimes for sure.
(10:57):
We have to go from a space that you and our beloved friends and community have so consciously
created over the last few years to live there most of the time and to come into a space
where quite the contrary, it used to be a small town village similar to perhaps where
(11:19):
we build our camp and community and now it's rapidly developing, it attracts thousands
and thousands of people per day, there's new construction everywhere.
It's such a jolt to the sensation and a lot of it as you've just said is against the morals
and ethics of how you and Mariana wish to live.
(11:40):
So I can see how just the immense difficulty that you guys feel and face every day.
What's really interesting to me when you messaged me when we were talking a few months ago as
I was pitching you this idea of hey let's record a podcast and I asked you about what
kind of topics you like to go over with me.
(12:02):
I didn't see it coming and it came out of the blue for me was you wanted to dive into
a life without plastics or just generating inorganic non-recyclable waste.
So it's been really fun to in the last few days being with you and Mariana and seeing
how mindful you are with the stuff that you need to or want to consume and how little
(12:23):
garbage you two have created and such that even you think about as we do at our camp
in Nepal, the tiny bits of plastics or even papers and metals that are stuffable into
a plastic bottle to make a bottle brick as we call it, you guys separate that with amazing
attention to detail.
(12:44):
I'd love for you to share with me, us what you've gained in that process and also how
difficult it is because it takes so much more energy and intention to live life with as
little packaging and waste as possible.
Can you dive into that with us?
(13:06):
I think I'm always looking for ways to feel connected to the earth and throughout my whole
life that's been really important.
My parents used to take me walking in the woods and every time that we were outside,
I would see trash and see other things around and from a young age, like a lot of people,
I think there was awareness of like, wait, but this is where we live and this is our
(13:29):
home and this is nature and it's important that we protect it and care for it.
Everything that we have in the world as human beings comes from this planet.
It's all a gift and so our gift in return should be in some way to serve this planet
and to be aware and conscious about the impact that we have and to try to make that impact
(13:53):
as positive as possible.
And so, one of the ways that I try to stay connected to the earth is in the main way
is to just be in the earth and outside in nature as much as possible because that really
helps me kind of find that connection to the trees and to the birds and to the land wherever
(14:15):
I go.
But, you know, there are other ways and each person can sort of explore for oneself what
feels right to kind of feel that we're living aligned with the values that we have and people
care and care of the earth.
They're very intertwined.
So, you know, one of the ways that we can show our love for humans and for each other
(14:39):
and for this planet is to be conscious in the way that we consume and the way that we
discard of garbage.
It's always shocking to me when I come back to city spaces and I see that, you know, for
the most part, there's not a lot of responsibility being taken on the consumer side for the trash
(15:01):
that we make.
You are able to drag it out to the street corner, you know, in some places you're paying
a little bit for, you know, the amount of space that you take up with that trash.
But in places like here in Mexico, you're really not.
I mean, there's almost no cost associated with taking trash out to the street, whether
(15:21):
you take a little bit or a lot.
And so there's no responsibility on the consumer.
And similarly, on the producer side, you can make as much trash as you really want to and
there's not a lot of responsibility being put onto the producers.
They're not having to pay money for this.
They're not being asked to reduce in any way that really enforces that.
(15:45):
And so when I see that, it's really shocking that we've come this far in our conversations
about the protection of the earth and our conversations about the importance of things
like climate change and protecting our waters and protecting our forests.
And yet we still don't have any systems for taking responsibility for the outcomes of
(16:08):
our actions, you know.
And this is also a spiritual concept in that way.
I mean, you know, in our karma and the reactions to our actions.
And I think as a human being, when we don't really fully understand or don't really take
responsibility for or feel disconnected from the reactions and outcomes of our actions,
(16:30):
it's also a difficult spiritual space.
And I see that very commonly and I feel it in myself sometimes too.
Like what I do doesn't have the outcome that feels aligned with my values.
I start to feel disconnected from myself, from the planet, from the people around me.
I feel like, ooh, you know, what is my actual impact in this lifetime?
(16:53):
What is the meaning of life?
And then we get into this sort of existential spiral.
So one of the little ways here in Mexico and very much inspired by my partner, Mariana,
is just to be really conscious about our outputs and what is our waste of us living here in
a place that's full of waste.
(17:13):
And so clearly, you know, our actual impact is very minimal in comparison to the greater
impact of this whole city and its existence here.
So more than a realistic way for us to fight the environmental destruction that is seemingly
inevitable in a place like Tulum, it's more of our way of just showing our disagreement
(17:37):
with and rejection of the assumption that this is okay.
And so we don't buy much.
You know, we don't really buy anything.
We don't buy anything that comes in plastic.
There's a hawk flying by.
We don't buy anything that comes in Styrofoam or in anything that we can't deal with in
(18:03):
our own way.
As you said, you know, little bits of plastic that happen to come into the household, you
can stuff in bottles.
That was taught to us by Ann Goodman over in Nepal many years ago, actually a really
great gift she brought as one of the volunteers.
Shout out to you, Ann.
Things that are compostable, you know, we can compost here and we have a compost where
(18:24):
we live.
Yeah, things that, you know, aren't compostable and can't be stuffed into a bottle, hard plastics
and Styrofoams and take away containers and we just don't buy.
So you know, it means you don't get to have takeout food.
It means you don't get to buy bags of chips at the store.
(18:45):
It means you don't get to buy.
We usually stay away from cans and things as well, though some of those are recyclable
and recycling is a whole other concept that I think, you know, we won't get into here.
But realistically, if you haven't done your research into recycling, it's a good thing
to just take a glance at and recognize that most of the things that we think are being
(19:06):
recycled are not.
It's really a last resort, even if it exists.
Yeah, I think, you know, unless you know who you're giving the materials to directly and
you know what they're doing with them and they have some sort of model that allows them
to deal with those.
Ideally, for them, a financial model that makes some of it profitable.
You can imagine otherwise, most recycling centers are taking the vast majority of the
(19:30):
goods they receive to the dump.
Or shipped overseas in a way that you don't even know it's going to have the outcome that
you thought it's going to have.
Yeah, but more and more the overseas don't want them.
Yeah, I mean, the ones that are taking them, you know, you can go online and watch short
documentaries and videos about what's actually happening with those products.
(19:52):
I really see all that you're saying, all that you two do as really taking responsibilities
of all that you consume and create.
And that's something that's been really lost, like closing the loop, so to speak, right?
In our resources, whether that's version materials or stuff that's already been reused, not just
(20:16):
turning a blind eye and just hoping that, oh, this service and this person or this entity
will take care of it.
I don't have to think about it.
I think it's really important that we take responsibility for the outcomes and impacts
of our actions.
Correct.
And again, not because necessarily my personal actions are going to be what stops climate
change, realistically, the corporations that are producing anything are creating hundreds
(20:43):
and thousands of times more trash than even the consumers are.
And who is ultimately responsible for that?
Is it on the consumer side or is it actually really on the corporate side?
Is a different conversation.
But in our lives, you know, again, in our spiritual lives to live on this land and to
be in more harmony, I think it's really important.
And for us, you know, for myself and Mariana and, you know, the life that we live, especially
(21:08):
right now, it's really important for us and our connection to the earth and our ability
to wake up every single day and feel, you know, like we're living more aligned with
our values.
It's important for us to take responsibility for our actions at any level that we can.
And it doesn't mean that there isn't waste or that we don't make mistakes or that everything
is perfect.
(21:28):
It just means that we're aware of that.
And sometimes becoming aware of it can be overwhelming when we start to see how much,
you know, trash and specific or, you know, impacts that we feel like are maybe not aligned
with our values, how much of that we're doing.
Then we get overwhelmed and then we get really negative and then we feel like the whole world
is negative.
And it's easy to get stuck in that spiral.
(21:48):
But yes, I think that there are ways that we can really take more responsibility for
our actions and our relationship to each other, to ourselves and to the planet.
So that's what I think has really been a big win for us this in coming to Tulum and in
living, you know, a life that is more modernized than we've been accustomed to, just trying
(22:11):
to make sure that we're still in touch with ourselves and that we don't block it.
Because when we block out, you know, our heart and our emotions and our mind and our consciousness
from the waste and outcome of our decisions and actions, and we just say, I can't think
about it, it's too much.
When we make that disconnection, then it's hard for us to be fully integrated as human
(22:35):
beings and to feel fully alive and to feel fully positive and to live a life that buyers
ourselves and the people around us.
Indeed.
That was a pretty defining topic in the second half of our conversation with Mariana yesterday.
You have to be your own role model in the way in which you live.
And by living as a demonstration of your own values and in speaking to and sharing your
(23:04):
story and maybe your knowledge with others, whether through a medium like this or just
day to day conversations, or some people, you know, it's TikTok and YouTube, then perhaps
the hope but not the expectation is that it will inspire and motivate others to think
more consciously of the consequences of actions.
(23:28):
Right?
And all you can do is continue to know where you stand and stay connected to that way of
being and continue forward.
But yeah, obviously the feeling, the lows and the weight of the world, some definitely
creep in sometimes and you and I are not immune to that.
(23:52):
You've been doing this for a long time too.
I mean, you know, you've really made this a big piece of your life and being conscious
about what you consume and how you consume it and never letting things go to waste.
And, you know, that's one of the first things I learned about you and almost 14 years ago
when we first met, however long ago it was.
Yeah, I remember that that was a piece of you that was already ingrained from a young
(24:15):
age that you really wanted to prevent wastefulness wherever you could.
And I think that's a good value to hold, especially in a time right now where our society is more
wasteful than ever.
Thank you for recalling that.
That drive and that curiosity to learn more and try to improve in my own life and just
(24:41):
from the world has led us to work for the same organization that really cemented our
connection and friendship, right?
We got to work for the same organization that sent both of us to parts of Central America.
As life would have it, the rivers would re-merge in Nepal in the form of conscious impacts.
(25:08):
And that's where you met your now partner for life, Mariana.
It's just incredible to always look back, especially with our connection and all the,
you know, decade plus of this journey, how serendipitous and amazing that has been.
(25:46):
And I think that's a good way to end the day.
Thank you for watching.
I hope you enjoyed this video.
If you did, please like and subscribe.
I'm sure you'll find a lot of content that you want me to do.
And I'll see you next time.
(26:09):
Bye!
Bye!
Bye!
Bye!
Bye!
Bye!
Yay!
And maybe start a small career that could be worth a thousand dollars.
Yeah.
And you know what?
I'm broke.
Wow!
Maybe I'll see you next time.
Bye!
Bye!
Bye!
Bye bye!
Bye!
(26:29):
Bye bye!
Bye!
Bye!
Bye!
Thank you so much for watching.
When you watch my videos again in this dessert, they're always delicious.
Make sure you hit the notification button!
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at WillinessWithinPod or hashtag with the same name.
(26:52):
Cheers.
Now back to the show.
I'd like to switch it up, and I think this is maybe a good segue
to talk more into creating and living in community
and what that means to you.
Maybe speak especially on the topic of karma yoga,
because that's been such an important foundation
(27:16):
of conscious impacts in the work that we've done.
Yeah, living in community can be really beautiful.
It's something that has really inspired me over the years
and opened my heart and first saw some versions of communal living
when I was a university student.
And there were a lot of collective houses around Berkeley
(27:40):
in the Bay Area where I studied, and people living together
and finding ways to cook together and finding ways to meet each other's
domestic needs in sort of unusual living circumstances.
I remember really just being inspired by the possibility
that we could all live together and take care of each other in that way
rather than living more in our independent spaces.
(28:03):
Everybody's needs are different, and I never would try to tell people
that one way of living is better than another.
I've found so much joy when we can come together
and live together in community.
But it's really hard, and a lot of times it can cause a lot of bickering
and back and forth challenges around who washed the dishes
(28:24):
or who ate that or who did this.
It's not always easy to live together with a bunch of people
and make things work.
But in the communities that I've been a part of in the United States
and also in Central America and West Africa
and then most recently and relevantly I think in Nepal,
(28:45):
one of the pieces that I've seen that really helps community work
is having a collective service that everybody shares.
That service is in part about the community and taking care of the community,
again washing dishes and cooking food and keeping spaces clean,
but that it's beyond that and that there's a service
(29:06):
that goes beyond the community in which we live
that serves the surrounding community of people
and also of plants and animals and of the earth.
So in Nepal, that service came out of the 2015 earthquake
when hundreds of thousands of homes across the central regions of Nepal fell.
We sort of set up a community next to a community
(29:30):
that had been there for a long time, the community of Takure.
There are a few hundred homes, people working to rebuild their homes
but also working to sustain an agrarian lifestyle,
growing rice and vegetables and taking care of their animals and their families.
So when we set up there, our primary goal was to be of service to that community.
(29:53):
And so from day one, we had a goal that was beyond serving ourselves
and beyond our own comforts.
And that really helped because when there was no running water
or we had to cook on fire for six months
and wake up at five o'clock in the morning to make scrambled eggs,
(30:14):
there was a collective purpose that was beyond just our own comfort.
And I think that that's really, really critical
because that means that even if somebody's struggling with their door not closing properly
or them not feeling like they liked the food the night before,
there's always a bigger reason for us to come together and to talk
(30:38):
and we immediately forget about our own needs
in the dialogue around how we can be of greater service to those around us.
I've seen a lot of people around the world in different situations, both good and bad.
But one thing I've always seen and learned is that human beings seem to really thrive
when they're in a space of service to others.
(31:01):
When they feel like what they're doing in every moment is helping someone else.
I think it's inherent to our nature that we feel good when we can do meaningful work
that helps other people's lives.
Absolutely.
And whether it's somebody who's a university student
or someone who's recently out of prison
(31:24):
or someone who's a rural Nepali or a city American,
all those people I've seen when they're given an opportunity to be of service,
they thrive and they light up and they feel like there's meaning and purpose.
And so I think when you talk about karma yoga,
karma yoga is one of the paths of yoga.
(31:46):
It can mean a lot of different things, but karma just means action
and yoga, union coming together.
When we release our own needs to the service of others,
it can support our spiritual path as well
and it allows us to sort of release a bit of our ego.
(32:08):
If we're doing what we're doing in service because we want to take a picture of it
or because we want to somehow make our perception of ourself
or other people's perception of us change, then it can get tricky.
But if you're doing it because you genuinely see the need
and you genuinely want to give and help and you're willing to do it and to sweat
(32:29):
and to put everything you have into it because you understand that it's important,
I find that in that space, for me at least, it clears a lot of that focus on sense of self,
a lot of the fears and anxieties and judgments and frustrations and angers
and all those things sort of fade a little bit as we really dive into the work that we're doing.
(32:54):
And so I think when it comes to creating community anywhere in the world,
having collective service work attached to it can really help that community thrive.
To me at least, that's what we are alive for,
to help one another be shinier, better versions of ourselves,
(33:18):
but while not forgetting to take care of our own bodies and minds.
Yeah, you called this podcast The Wilderness Within.
One of the things I've seen about that human internal wilderness over the years is
we're a unique species and I've shared this with you before, I think,
(33:40):
but it seems like a good time to share it,
because when I look to the natural world a lot to model purpose,
what are we doing here?
And when I look at the trees and the birds and all the wild animals and plants and stones,
I see that there's inherent purpose in all of it.
(34:06):
And then when I look at human beings, I see that we're very confused and disoriented,
we're in a crisis of identification.
Who are we? What are we doing here? What's our purpose?
What do I really want to do with my life?
Do I want to have a partner? Do I want to have family?
Where do I want to live? What do I want that to feel like?
I go through that myself.
(34:27):
And when I look into the wilderness and I see the trees and the birds and the animals,
I don't see any other species on this planet dealing with an identity crisis.
I only see us.
If you looked at the squirrels and they were looking at each other and they were thinking,
I don't know if this is the right tree for us, I don't know if this is where we should be living,
I just don't know if I want to really have kids,
(34:49):
you would think those are some squirrels that are very interesting and very confused.
So that seems to be particularly a human element.
I see it in domesticated animals sometimes too, but I think that's because of their proximity to us.
They're sometimes not sure if they're a cat or a dog, but that's the difference.
It's rubbed off from us.
(35:10):
But in wild animals and in birds, you don't see that.
You see an inherent understanding of what it is that they're doing.
Their roles in the ecosystem.
In the ecosystem, exactly.
And so I think that's a really good model for us that the birds are just birding
and the trees are treeing and the wolves are wolfing.
(35:35):
But when it comes to humans, how do we human?
How do we just be?
Because we have this additional level of mind chatter that is both a power and a struggle.
How do we just human?
And so I've seen in the past in that space of service
(35:58):
that that seems to be one of those things that we have inside of us that we know is part of who we are
and part of our path and that helps us remember that we do have inherent purpose on this world.
And part of that purpose is to be of service and to serve others.
And that there is something that means to human.
(36:22):
And I've seen it in traditional peoples, maybe more than the modern people.
The traditional peoples, if you come from a particular culture, you usually eat what you eat.
And the weddings look the way that they look and the funerals look the way that they look.
And there's a lot of shared practices.
But now in the modern world, more than ever, we have more access to choices and decisions every single day.
(36:48):
And it can be confusing.
So trying to remember what our inherent purpose is, what it means to human,
the way that the trees know what it means to tree and the birds know what it means to bird is, I think, a good daily practice.
And pulling some of that wisdom from the natural world around us and spending time in that natural world has really served me.
(37:09):
How to be human.
Well, I think on that note, Ryan, what do you feel of light to be your sense of purpose?
And what are you working towards now and in the future?
Right now, for me personally, it feels like a transition time.
(37:34):
And the whole world was shifting and moving.
It felt like a moment of shifting and moving for myself as well.
I just recently am married.
I don't have children.
And I'm coming out of an organization and a half decade of work and trying to see what's next.
But in that moment of transition, I felt like it was really important to dive into educating myself in one area in particular.
(38:01):
Both my parents are healers.
My father is an M.D., medical doctor, who has spent a lot of his life integrating Eastern and Western practices and working a lot with diet and lifestyle to support people, to heal and maintain health.
My mother has done similar work with hypnotherapy and massage and really supported people to go inside more deeply and explore themselves and their past and do some of the emotional, physical, subtle energy healing that is so valuable.
(38:40):
And so in this transition time, I thought maybe it's time to start learning a little bit more about that healing path.
I have my own struggles in life, like many of us or all of us do, with my aches and pains and imbalances.
And so part of me and part of the journey has been just to heal myself, but also be able to share this.
(39:06):
As we talked about living in community, right now, a lot of the people that I live with and live around and spend time with,
there's been kind of a big rejection of Western medicine to some degree or hesitancy towards it.
We don't want to take the medication, the pills, the advice that's coming out of that space because we feel like these are chemicals.
(39:32):
We don't understand what they do. They only treat the symptoms. They don't go to the depth.
And so a lot of people are looking for alternative ways to heal, myself included.
But when we sort of reject or walk away from an entire medical system, it's tough to replace.
And Google is certainly not a satisfactory replacement for that.
(39:53):
And I see a lot of us really getting lost in trying to read online and learn, OK, well, what plant? What about this?
What about this tea? What about this herb? What about this type of diet, this type of fasting?
What can I do to make this all work? But I found that it's a bit incomplete in the way that the pieces come together.
(40:17):
It's not a foundational science. But spending so many years in between India and Nepal,
I've been really introduced consistently to Ayurveda, this sort of traditional medicine that comes out of India,
maybe about 5000 years old and its origins and has been developed over years and continues to be practiced very, very actively on that side of the world.
(40:44):
And I find that this resonates really well with myself.
And I've met a lot of people that really resonate strongly with Ayurveda.
And one of the big reasons is it's based in the elements, which I think is similar to Chinese medicine and a lot of other traditional medicines.
But it's based in the elements and in the surrounding environment and in the consciousness of plants and working with them.
(41:12):
And I was raised in the elemental space. My mother had taught me about the earth, the air, the fire and the water from a young age.
It's helped me to understand that these are the components that make up all of the great universe.
We are made of stardust. And so all of these, everything in the universe is made of these same core elements.
And so if we can understand them, we can understand better our bodies and our minds and the world around us.
(41:38):
And so in Ayurveda, those five elements, earth, air, fire, water and then ether are kind of the core of the science.
And I would not in any way try to teach Ayurveda in this space, but just sharing what I feel connected to in that,
because it gives me tools to reflect on the balance and imbalance.
(42:02):
And my father taught me from a very young age that balance is key, the middle path, the middle way, and always bringing things back into balance.
And the science of Ayurveda, I mean, Ayurveda means sort of the science of life is how it's commonly translated.
It supports balance and it works with individuals on a one-on-one basis, each individual person and who they are and how they are,
(42:30):
supporting them to come back to balance using diet and lifestyle, plant medicine, yoga practices very closely tied.
So, you know, one simple example for me that's been really defining for this last year and a half is working with the element of air.
I'm a very tall, thin, light person, kind of bony.
(42:55):
And in Ayurvedic system, I would be considered to be a very airy element, what some people know as kind of vata, air and space,
which helps me to sort of reflect on who I am and recognize some elements of my personality.
My mind is constantly moving like the wind change is very exciting to me.
It feels natural, but sometimes I can get caught up in too much change and the mind can take off like a cloud and kind of fade away and can get confused and disoriented.
(43:29):
And so understanding that in the mental space and also in the physical space, you know, in Ayurveda, the air quality is dry.
It's rough. It's mobile, constantly moving. It's cold.
You know, some people say they have a tendency to get cold really easily. That's oftentimes people with a similar body type.
(43:51):
So in understanding that element and how it works within me, I recognize that one of the things I really needed to do to support my own health was to stabilize that element.
Sometimes activating it can be helpful. Sometimes slowing it can be helpful.
In my situation, stabilizing the air element in my body was going to be really, really helpful for me.
(44:15):
It was going to help stabilize my mind. It was going to help stabilize my physical strength and body.
So I've been working on that for the last year.
And Pranayama, working with the breath, the prana, the life force energy and other breath work has really helped to balance and stabilize my energy, both mental and emotional and physical.
(44:44):
So that's something that I'm still building on and working on and figuring out how it is that I can have an understanding of that kind of elemental healing be a part of what I offer to community moving forward.
How do you think at this point, your application of that in light of service and that being such a strong, important component in your life?
(45:09):
Yeah, I mean, Mariana and my goal is to live outside of the modern society.
We'd like to be in traditional community. I like the mountains. She likes the ocean.
But somewhere between the high mountains and the lower ocean, a place where we can live with people that carry more of that traditional understanding and practice of how to be human that has come from generations and generations and generations before.
(45:46):
Maybe they cook with fire, maybe that speak an indigenous language that take care of the land, that farm and grow their own food, take care of animals.
That's what we really want. And we want to find ways to be of service to those communities while we also learn from them and support them.
(46:09):
This is what we have in Nepal. We live alongside a Hindu and Buddhist and multi-ethnic community there that teaches us many, many things.
And we find ways to be of service. And here on this side of the world in Mexico, that's our hope as well, to be able to build community alongside a community that's existed for a long time and find ways that we can be of service to each other.
(46:36):
And Ayurveda and traditional medicine in general, every traditional community that you go to, they have their own history of working with plants as medicine, being able to make their own medicine, being able to heal themselves outside of the Western system.
(46:58):
Because in their great history, the Western system is very, very recent. So for many years before that, there were alternative ways to heal.
So it's one piece of being able to live outside of this modern space. Mariana knows how to build with natural building materials, whatever she can find on site.
(47:19):
That's another great piece. It's very practical to be able to live outside of modern society.
So yeah, remembering how to live more traditionally, to be of service, take care of each other and the land, to drop into our inherent knowledge and understanding of what it means to be human.
(47:44):
And to have that be demonstrated in land and community that we invite people to come to. That's the vision and the hope.
Even if we weren't friends before this episode, I'd have to check in with you six months from now, a year from now, and just go, hey, what's the progress on that front?
(48:09):
Have you found stumbled upon, be connected to a space where you can practice all of those things?
And what great, two great superpowers you guys hold in the holistic health and in natural building to offer to one another as a union and to those that you're going to intentionally choose to live with and build with?
(48:34):
You know, the future is uncertain, and that used to be really scary.
But I think practicing being at peace in the unknown has been a big practice over the years.
And right now we're just standing in our own building our relationship, doing our daily practices, being open, setting intentions or prayer.
(49:02):
Listening and recognizing that it's easy as humans to want things to happen quickly.
But again, when we look to the natural world, things of great value take time.
Change is slow.
And so in that way, this next move for us, maybe it will take some time to really build roots and find what the next work and community project will look like.
(49:43):
But certainly when we're there, whatever that is, we can check back in and I'm sure we'll have more to share then.
I feel like even though you're speaking for yourselves, the game of patience and intentionality is applicable across all of humanity, truly.
(50:05):
I mean, I can only say what's helped me and patience is one of those things.
A daily practice, some consistency, Ayurveda really speaks a lot to that as well.
Eat consistently, sleep consistently, poop consistently, drink water consistently, bring some of that stability into your mind, body and spirit.
(50:33):
And then from there, I just try to stay conscious and awake and be aware of what the possibilities allow for.
And rather than trying to force things like I might have done in my 20s, trying instead to allow for what's next to arrive.
(51:00):
But it's not easy. Sometimes I get impatient and I want to try and make something happen and then I go to my breath.
Yes, it's always that take a turn to. I think that's very full circle. That's a good natural place to come to a close.
Yeah, thanks, Jonathan. I appreciate going for a walk with you in the jungle outside of Tulum and talking about life and the universe.
(51:28):
And I'm always happy to connect and share. You know, every time we see each other, we've learned new things and forgotten old things.
And it's always good to check in and return to our own awareness and what's important.
(52:08):
About three or four years ago, when I was practicing walking on the land and learning from nature, I wrote a little song called How to Be Human.
It goes like this. How to be human, how to be free, how to live in this world in perfect harmony.
(52:34):
How to be human, how to be wild, how to walk on this land, heart open like a child.
How to be human, it's easy to see. The birds bird, the trees tree, all you have to do is be.
(52:58):
I think it's really wonderful to look back on this past year and a half, nearly two years, on how much more life has provided and shown us, both Orion and I, and how he's become a father now to his firstborn with Mariana.
I'm thinking about the fact that back in Nepal, in Thakure, where their relationship began and where I met Mariana and how the whole saga of conscious impact and really devotional service work has begun, certainly in my life and the lives of many hundreds that have come through conscious impact.
(53:38):
Now for them to bring their son to the land and to meet the community members of Thakure and the surrounding area seems so full circle.
Even though I'm not there physically, I have this amazing, instead of FOMO, I'm calling it JOMO, a joy of missing out.
Yeah, I wonder what ideas and topics really resonated with you. I'd love to hear from any of you that are tuning in, whether you know me personally or not, please find me on the socials and drop me a DM.
(54:11):
Love to hear about what you think of the podcast, are there any ways I can make it better, anything of the constructive feedback type I'd be absolutely keen to take from you. As I dive deeper into this project, this new devotional project, I want to find ways in which I can see more blind sides and be more aware on how I can improve as a presenter, as a storyteller.
(54:39):
So thank you in advance. A huge shout out to Orion and Mariana for hosting me during my stay in the Tulum area back in February 2022. And I look forward to more conversations with them.
When I was younger, I used to kind of roll my eyes and not at all understand and of course skip through the credits and acknowledgments when movies and TV shows or podcasts.
(55:12):
The host talks about like, oh, we got to thank this person and this person, it just goes on and on and on and never really understood it.
I think in the last few years alone, I've really come around and realized my goodness, even the smaller projects like this require a whole team. They really require and really benefit from a whole community around it.
(55:35):
So I'm here to proudly acknowledge the humans through the years since the launch of my Patreon in 2018, who have been contributing and or contributed in the past at levels at which I just need to say their names and acknowledge all that I've done.
The time they've given to give me comments and dropping messages, giving me advice, and of course dropping in their hard earned dollars or whatever currency they're earning in to support me and all the projects that I've devoted my time to, including the Wilderness Within podcast.
(56:11):
So here we go. I want to give a special thank you to Paul Jones and Tuan Mays, Ayanna Bolland, Deborah Carson, Renee Dyke, Luke Fernandez, Kelly P, Karina Formile, Kelsey Lynn, Ken Russell, Kelsey Yates, Michael Chung, Evans Dickles, Reiki Corden, Christine Schumann, Lindsay Cleve-Veary.
(56:39):
I'm sorry if I'm butchering your name and anyone's.
(57:09):
Thank you so much y'all.
It really means a lot for your support, past, present, future. You make my dreams come true. You allow me to work where I travel to. You allow me to create content where I'm passing through.
(57:39):
You allow me to trust that each month I'm going to have this nice little baseline of income that really sustains me that sometimes really puts food on the table and allows me to go, Hey, like I can come into this project. I'm going to buy that piece of gear. I'm going to hire that person.
I'm going to invest in myself and the services and goods that allow me to create and expand and try new things and experiments. And all of this is a part of it. So thank you. I am so grateful for your support.
(58:27):
Thank you.
Welcome back to the Wilderness Within.
(00:03):
Today's guest is quite special in my world.
Orion and I met in the summer of 2009 when I was about to enter my last year in my undergraduate
studies.
And for Orion, he had already been working for the organization for a year or two in
Honduras in the public health and water programs.
(00:23):
We were both young and energetic and eager to do what we can, apply our knowledge and
our studies with other people that shared his vision for a better world.
And even though we worked in different offices, for me in Panama for the environmental program
and for him in Honduras, we've always kept this line of connection.
For Orion, he later moved on to be the founder of the programs in Ghana in West Africa.
(00:49):
And luck would have it that we would meet up in the jungles of Panama, deep in the tropical
rainforest in central Panama with Nathan Gray, who at the time was the founder and director
of EarthTrain.
We took a workshop with about a dozen other participants on deep ecology, systems thinking,
economic development, the complexities of weaving in indigenous knowledge, centuries
(01:13):
and centuries of colonization, how to still put ecology and planets and living things
above profits when the predominant system is a capital centered, human centered system.
And so naturally, as you can imagine, for those of you who know me personally, quite
a few in common.
And so even though Orion and I never shared an office as being colleagues in 2010, 11,
(01:39):
12, we became more aware of each other's interest and communication styles.
We were able to cross paths physically in early 2013 when he was living in Long Beach,
California at a time.
And for me, I was about to depart on a multi-month bicycle tour.
We reconnected really beautifully.
And since then, we've held a friendship that has been very dear and near to my heart.
(02:02):
He's also one of the main reasons why I decided to go over to Nepal after the devastating
earthquakes that I talked about in Mariana's episode, and hence the founding of Conscious
Impact.
He's one of the co-founders of that organization that's really become a huge focal and pivotal
point in my life.
(02:23):
So Orion is definitely someone that I look up to as an older brother, as a friend, as
a mentor at times.
And he's been there through a lot of my life story and I have for him.
I really hope you enjoyed this conversation with a dear friend and brother, Orion Haas.
(03:00):
Here we are, Orion Haas.
Thank you for doing this with me.
Yeah, man.
Thanks for coming to Tulum to visit, say hey, and keep spreading your light and joy around
the world.
We've seen each other in a lot of different places.
Just keep adding to it.
Yeah.
(03:21):
Yeah.
And each place is different, has different energy, has different spaces, has different
natural landscapes that we always get to explore together.
It's fun and it's been a great last few days.
It serves really well as my last week in Mexico.
(03:41):
Yeah, we haven't been together in the jungle since Panama, I think, 2009.
Yeah.
I was doing a walk down memory lane today looking at some photos for another project
I was working on.
You were taking pictures back then, really beautiful ones of us hiking through the jungle
(04:02):
with Nathan Gray.
2009.
Earth Chain Project.
Yeah.
2009, 2010.
That's a throwback.
Here we are in 2022, walking the jungle again.
Describe to us where we are and how this walk is significant to you.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, we're walking just a few hundred meters outside of one of the neighborhoods of Tulum,
(04:26):
one of the more fast growing neighborhoods of Tulum called La Valletta.
Tulum, major international tourist hub, city that's growing and growing in the last seven
or eight years has really exploded in the number of tourists that come here from all
over the world.
Was once a very small town is now becoming a bigger and bigger urban environment with
(04:49):
different neighborhoods.
The way place that we live here on the edge of La Valletta is under a lot of construction.
It's got a lot of new buildings coming in and more and more people want to leave wherever
they are to come here to Mexico to live in this part of the world.
But then the neighborhood fades into the surrounding jungle.
(05:13):
I try to come for a walk out here in this forest area.
As many times as I can each week in the evenings when I'm done working just to feel the natural
landscape a bit away from the hustle and bustle and construction.
And so you get to hear the birds and see some of the little creatures that live in the forest
(05:35):
here and then you know, there's usually some construction in the far distance that I can
hear.
Yeah, like right now we can hear what could be a jackhammer.
Yeah.
But for the most part we are surrounded by the woods and some bird songs.
Yeah, a lot of trees here, the breeze blowing through, a lot of green and these roads that
(05:59):
kind of weave through this area that may, you know, in the not too distant future become
an expanded part of the city of Tulum.
So it's at this turning point here where the jungle meets the city and human beings are
making decisions about what this land will look like for the next 50 years.
(06:24):
And yeah, some of those decisions are a little concerning.
Tell me about the contrast of the living situation you have had with Mariana in the last few
months versus that in which both of you are used to.
Let's say back at our camp in Nepal.
Yeah, you know, I've lived a lot of places in this world as have you and since 2015,
(06:52):
so in the last six or seven years, the main place that I've lived has been in the mountains
of Nepal on our project Conscious Impact with a lot of our friends and community there as
well as my partner and wife Mariana.
So we're used to living outside and there we spend most of our time living in a tent
(07:12):
as did all of our volunteers and friends and community from around the world that came
there and at the beginning we were cooking on fire outside and rebuilding after a massive
earthquake and so there wasn't much city or development as they say around that area.
It's just pure mountains and clean air and clean water and traditional community of Nepalese
(07:38):
that live nearby.
But when COVID hit, after a few months of staying there in the mountains to kind of
watch how the world would be affected, we came back to this side of the world in part
because we wanted to get married and see our family and go through that ritual and in part
because we knew it was a time of transition for us and our lives and globally a transition
(08:01):
period so we came back to this side of the world to see what was next and to see at this
time in our life as we're in our 30s, mid 30s to figure out what we could do for work
to be able to try and generate some money which is not something we had done in many
years and so after we got married and kind of looked at a few different places, Mariana
(08:27):
is from Mexico and so we thought okay well why don't we go somewhere where we can sort
of settle for the year and be in Mexico and here we are in Tulum.
Yeah it's different to live in a city than it has been to be living in the mountains.
A lot of things are easier in a city and a lot of things are harder and I think for us
(08:49):
some of the things that are harder are what we've noticed more.
It's harder to live with a low impact on the world, on the environment, it's harder to
live without making trash, it's harder to live without consuming and buying and spending
money and making money.
We were used to living on rice that was grown locally and beans that had been brought in
(09:12):
from not that far away and some local veggies, not too much plastic, not too much importation
and not too much consumption in general, you know we would go months without really using
a lot of money where we were.
But now it's much more around consumption and especially in a place like here where
(09:33):
everybody's coming in as tourists and visitors, people are coming for experiences and so there's
tons of restaurants, tons of things that you can do to spend money on and tons of things
you can buy and most of them are very wasteful, they leave an impact behind including just
us being here, you know, renting a place as you see here in this part of the forest.
(09:56):
Everything is for sale and lotted and set for development to fill this growing need
for accommodations.
But at the same time there's a lot of good people here, a lot of good food and beautiful
beach and...
Things to tap into.
The history of the older or ancient Mayan culture that was here and the ruins of that,
(10:22):
but yeah to see what our modern humanity is doing amidst the ruins of traditional culture
can be disheartening and confusing sometimes for sure.
(10:57):
We have to go from a space that you and our beloved friends and community have so consciously
created over the last few years to live there most of the time and to come into a space
where quite the contrary, it used to be a small town village similar to perhaps where
(11:19):
we build our camp and community and now it's rapidly developing, it attracts thousands
and thousands of people per day, there's new construction everywhere.
It's such a jolt to the sensation and a lot of it as you've just said is against the morals
and ethics of how you and Mariana wish to live.
(11:40):
So I can see how just the immense difficulty that you guys feel and face every day.
What's really interesting to me when you messaged me when we were talking a few months ago as
I was pitching you this idea of hey let's record a podcast and I asked you about what
kind of topics you like to go over with me.
(12:02):
I didn't see it coming and it came out of the blue for me was you wanted to dive into
a life without plastics or just generating inorganic non-recyclable waste.
So it's been really fun to in the last few days being with you and Mariana and seeing
how mindful you are with the stuff that you need to or want to consume and how little
(12:23):
garbage you two have created and such that even you think about as we do at our camp
in Nepal, the tiny bits of plastics or even papers and metals that are stuffable into
a plastic bottle to make a bottle brick as we call it, you guys separate that with amazing
attention to detail.
(12:44):
I'd love for you to share with me, us what you've gained in that process and also how
difficult it is because it takes so much more energy and intention to live life with as
little packaging and waste as possible.
Can you dive into that with us?
(13:06):
I think I'm always looking for ways to feel connected to the earth and throughout my whole
life that's been really important.
My parents used to take me walking in the woods and every time that we were outside,
I would see trash and see other things around and from a young age, like a lot of people,
I think there was awareness of like, wait, but this is where we live and this is our
(13:29):
home and this is nature and it's important that we protect it and care for it.
Everything that we have in the world as human beings comes from this planet.
It's all a gift and so our gift in return should be in some way to serve this planet
and to be aware and conscious about the impact that we have and to try to make that impact
(13:53):
as positive as possible.
And so, one of the ways that I try to stay connected to the earth is in the main way
is to just be in the earth and outside in nature as much as possible because that really
helps me kind of find that connection to the trees and to the birds and to the land wherever
(14:15):
I go.
But, you know, there are other ways and each person can sort of explore for oneself what
feels right to kind of feel that we're living aligned with the values that we have and people
care and care of the earth.
They're very intertwined.
So, you know, one of the ways that we can show our love for humans and for each other
(14:39):
and for this planet is to be conscious in the way that we consume and the way that we
discard of garbage.
It's always shocking to me when I come back to city spaces and I see that, you know, for
the most part, there's not a lot of responsibility being taken on the consumer side for the trash
(15:01):
that we make.
You are able to drag it out to the street corner, you know, in some places you're paying
a little bit for, you know, the amount of space that you take up with that trash.
But in places like here in Mexico, you're really not.
I mean, there's almost no cost associated with taking trash out to the street, whether
(15:21):
you take a little bit or a lot.
And so there's no responsibility on the consumer.
And similarly, on the producer side, you can make as much trash as you really want to and
there's not a lot of responsibility being put onto the producers.
They're not having to pay money for this.
They're not being asked to reduce in any way that really enforces that.
(15:45):
And so when I see that, it's really shocking that we've come this far in our conversations
about the protection of the earth and our conversations about the importance of things
like climate change and protecting our waters and protecting our forests.
And yet we still don't have any systems for taking responsibility for the outcomes of
(16:08):
our actions, you know.
And this is also a spiritual concept in that way.
I mean, you know, in our karma and the reactions to our actions.
And I think as a human being, when we don't really fully understand or don't really take
responsibility for or feel disconnected from the reactions and outcomes of our actions,
(16:30):
it's also a difficult spiritual space.
And I see that very commonly and I feel it in myself sometimes too.
Like what I do doesn't have the outcome that feels aligned with my values.
I start to feel disconnected from myself, from the planet, from the people around me.
I feel like, ooh, you know, what is my actual impact in this lifetime?
(16:53):
What is the meaning of life?
And then we get into this sort of existential spiral.
So one of the little ways here in Mexico and very much inspired by my partner, Mariana,
is just to be really conscious about our outputs and what is our waste of us living here in
a place that's full of waste.
(17:13):
And so clearly, you know, our actual impact is very minimal in comparison to the greater
impact of this whole city and its existence here.
So more than a realistic way for us to fight the environmental destruction that is seemingly
inevitable in a place like Tulum, it's more of our way of just showing our disagreement
(17:37):
with and rejection of the assumption that this is okay.
And so we don't buy much.
You know, we don't really buy anything.
We don't buy anything that comes in plastic.
There's a hawk flying by.
We don't buy anything that comes in Styrofoam or in anything that we can't deal with in
(18:03):
our own way.
As you said, you know, little bits of plastic that happen to come into the household, you
can stuff in bottles.
That was taught to us by Ann Goodman over in Nepal many years ago, actually a really
great gift she brought as one of the volunteers.
Shout out to you, Ann.
Things that are compostable, you know, we can compost here and we have a compost where
(18:24):
we live.
Yeah, things that, you know, aren't compostable and can't be stuffed into a bottle, hard plastics
and Styrofoams and take away containers and we just don't buy.
So you know, it means you don't get to have takeout food.
It means you don't get to buy bags of chips at the store.
(18:45):
It means you don't get to buy.
We usually stay away from cans and things as well, though some of those are recyclable
and recycling is a whole other concept that I think, you know, we won't get into here.
But realistically, if you haven't done your research into recycling, it's a good thing
to just take a glance at and recognize that most of the things that we think are being
(19:06):
recycled are not.
It's really a last resort, even if it exists.
Yeah, I think, you know, unless you know who you're giving the materials to directly and
you know what they're doing with them and they have some sort of model that allows them
to deal with those.
Ideally, for them, a financial model that makes some of it profitable.
You can imagine otherwise, most recycling centers are taking the vast majority of the
(19:30):
goods they receive to the dump.
Or shipped overseas in a way that you don't even know it's going to have the outcome that
you thought it's going to have.
Yeah, but more and more the overseas don't want them.
Yeah, I mean, the ones that are taking them, you know, you can go online and watch short
documentaries and videos about what's actually happening with those products.
(19:52):
I really see all that you're saying, all that you two do as really taking responsibilities
of all that you consume and create.
And that's something that's been really lost, like closing the loop, so to speak, right?
In our resources, whether that's version materials or stuff that's already been reused, not just
(20:16):
turning a blind eye and just hoping that, oh, this service and this person or this entity
will take care of it.
I don't have to think about it.
I think it's really important that we take responsibility for the outcomes and impacts
of our actions.
Correct.
And again, not because necessarily my personal actions are going to be what stops climate
change, realistically, the corporations that are producing anything are creating hundreds
(20:43):
and thousands of times more trash than even the consumers are.
And who is ultimately responsible for that?
Is it on the consumer side or is it actually really on the corporate side?
Is a different conversation.
But in our lives, you know, again, in our spiritual lives to live on this land and to
be in more harmony, I think it's really important.
And for us, you know, for myself and Mariana and, you know, the life that we live, especially
(21:08):
right now, it's really important for us and our connection to the earth and our ability
to wake up every single day and feel, you know, like we're living more aligned with
our values.
It's important for us to take responsibility for our actions at any level that we can.
And it doesn't mean that there isn't waste or that we don't make mistakes or that everything
is perfect.
(21:28):
It just means that we're aware of that.
And sometimes becoming aware of it can be overwhelming when we start to see how much,
you know, trash and specific or, you know, impacts that we feel like are maybe not aligned
with our values, how much of that we're doing.
Then we get overwhelmed and then we get really negative and then we feel like the whole world
is negative.
And it's easy to get stuck in that spiral.
(21:48):
But yes, I think that there are ways that we can really take more responsibility for
our actions and our relationship to each other, to ourselves and to the planet.
So that's what I think has really been a big win for us this in coming to Tulum and in
living, you know, a life that is more modernized than we've been accustomed to, just trying
(22:11):
to make sure that we're still in touch with ourselves and that we don't block it.
Because when we block out, you know, our heart and our emotions and our mind and our consciousness
from the waste and outcome of our decisions and actions, and we just say, I can't think
about it, it's too much.
When we make that disconnection, then it's hard for us to be fully integrated as human
(22:35):
beings and to feel fully alive and to feel fully positive and to live a life that buyers
ourselves and the people around us.
Indeed.
That was a pretty defining topic in the second half of our conversation with Mariana yesterday.
You have to be your own role model in the way in which you live.
And by living as a demonstration of your own values and in speaking to and sharing your
(23:04):
story and maybe your knowledge with others, whether through a medium like this or just
day to day conversations, or some people, you know, it's TikTok and YouTube, then perhaps
the hope but not the expectation is that it will inspire and motivate others to think
more consciously of the consequences of actions.
(23:28):
Right?
And all you can do is continue to know where you stand and stay connected to that way of
being and continue forward.
But yeah, obviously the feeling, the lows and the weight of the world, some definitely
creep in sometimes and you and I are not immune to that.
(23:52):
You've been doing this for a long time too.
I mean, you know, you've really made this a big piece of your life and being conscious
about what you consume and how you consume it and never letting things go to waste.
And, you know, that's one of the first things I learned about you and almost 14 years ago
when we first met, however long ago it was.
Yeah, I remember that that was a piece of you that was already ingrained from a young
(24:15):
age that you really wanted to prevent wastefulness wherever you could.
And I think that's a good value to hold, especially in a time right now where our society is more
wasteful than ever.
Thank you for recalling that.
That drive and that curiosity to learn more and try to improve in my own life and just
(24:41):
from the world has led us to work for the same organization that really cemented our
connection and friendship, right?
We got to work for the same organization that sent both of us to parts of Central America.
As life would have it, the rivers would re-merge in Nepal in the form of conscious impacts.
(25:08):
And that's where you met your now partner for life, Mariana.
It's just incredible to always look back, especially with our connection and all the,
you know, decade plus of this journey, how serendipitous and amazing that has been.
(25:46):
And I think that's a good way to end the day.
Thank you for watching.
I hope you enjoyed this video.
If you did, please like and subscribe.
I'm sure you'll find a lot of content that you want me to do.
And I'll see you next time.
(26:09):
Bye!
Bye!
Bye!
Bye!
Bye!
Bye!
Yay!
And maybe start a small career that could be worth a thousand dollars.
Yeah.
And you know what?
I'm broke.
Wow!
Maybe I'll see you next time.
Bye!
Bye!
Bye!
Bye bye!
Bye!
(26:29):
Bye bye!
Bye!
Bye!
Bye!
Thank you so much for watching.
When you watch my videos again in this dessert, they're always delicious.
Make sure you hit the notification button!
Whatever you're able to do, thank you.
Follow and engage with me and us on Instagram
at WillinessWithinPod or hashtag with the same name.
(26:52):
Cheers.
Now back to the show.
I'd like to switch it up, and I think this is maybe a good segue
to talk more into creating and living in community
and what that means to you.
Maybe speak especially on the topic of karma yoga,
because that's been such an important foundation
(27:16):
of conscious impacts in the work that we've done.
Yeah, living in community can be really beautiful.
It's something that has really inspired me over the years
and opened my heart and first saw some versions of communal living
when I was a university student.
And there were a lot of collective houses around Berkeley
(27:40):
in the Bay Area where I studied, and people living together
and finding ways to cook together and finding ways to meet each other's
domestic needs in sort of unusual living circumstances.
I remember really just being inspired by the possibility
that we could all live together and take care of each other in that way
rather than living more in our independent spaces.
(28:03):
Everybody's needs are different, and I never would try to tell people
that one way of living is better than another.
I've found so much joy when we can come together
and live together in community.
But it's really hard, and a lot of times it can cause a lot of bickering
and back and forth challenges around who washed the dishes
(28:24):
or who ate that or who did this.
It's not always easy to live together with a bunch of people
and make things work.
But in the communities that I've been a part of in the United States
and also in Central America and West Africa
and then most recently and relevantly I think in Nepal,
(28:45):
one of the pieces that I've seen that really helps community work
is having a collective service that everybody shares.
That service is in part about the community and taking care of the community,
again washing dishes and cooking food and keeping spaces clean,
but that it's beyond that and that there's a service
(29:06):
that goes beyond the community in which we live
that serves the surrounding community of people
and also of plants and animals and of the earth.
So in Nepal, that service came out of the 2015 earthquake
when hundreds of thousands of homes across the central regions of Nepal fell.
We sort of set up a community next to a community
(29:30):
that had been there for a long time, the community of Takure.
There are a few hundred homes, people working to rebuild their homes
but also working to sustain an agrarian lifestyle,
growing rice and vegetables and taking care of their animals and their families.
So when we set up there, our primary goal was to be of service to that community.
(29:53):
And so from day one, we had a goal that was beyond serving ourselves
and beyond our own comforts.
And that really helped because when there was no running water
or we had to cook on fire for six months
and wake up at five o'clock in the morning to make scrambled eggs,
(30:14):
there was a collective purpose that was beyond just our own comfort.
And I think that that's really, really critical
because that means that even if somebody's struggling with their door not closing properly
or them not feeling like they liked the food the night before,
there's always a bigger reason for us to come together and to talk
(30:38):
and we immediately forget about our own needs
in the dialogue around how we can be of greater service to those around us.
I've seen a lot of people around the world in different situations, both good and bad.
But one thing I've always seen and learned is that human beings seem to really thrive
when they're in a space of service to others.
(31:01):
When they feel like what they're doing in every moment is helping someone else.
I think it's inherent to our nature that we feel good when we can do meaningful work
that helps other people's lives.
Absolutely.
And whether it's somebody who's a university student
or someone who's recently out of prison
(31:24):
or someone who's a rural Nepali or a city American,
all those people I've seen when they're given an opportunity to be of service,
they thrive and they light up and they feel like there's meaning and purpose.
And so I think when you talk about karma yoga,
karma yoga is one of the paths of yoga.
(31:46):
It can mean a lot of different things, but karma just means action
and yoga, union coming together.
When we release our own needs to the service of others,
it can support our spiritual path as well
and it allows us to sort of release a bit of our ego.
(32:08):
If we're doing what we're doing in service because we want to take a picture of it
or because we want to somehow make our perception of ourself
or other people's perception of us change, then it can get tricky.
But if you're doing it because you genuinely see the need
and you genuinely want to give and help and you're willing to do it and to sweat
(32:29):
and to put everything you have into it because you understand that it's important,
I find that in that space, for me at least, it clears a lot of that focus on sense of self,
a lot of the fears and anxieties and judgments and frustrations and angers
and all those things sort of fade a little bit as we really dive into the work that we're doing.
(32:54):
And so I think when it comes to creating community anywhere in the world,
having collective service work attached to it can really help that community thrive.
To me at least, that's what we are alive for,
to help one another be shinier, better versions of ourselves,
(33:18):
but while not forgetting to take care of our own bodies and minds.
Yeah, you called this podcast The Wilderness Within.
One of the things I've seen about that human internal wilderness over the years is
we're a unique species and I've shared this with you before, I think,
(33:40):
but it seems like a good time to share it,
because when I look to the natural world a lot to model purpose,
what are we doing here?
And when I look at the trees and the birds and all the wild animals and plants and stones,
I see that there's inherent purpose in all of it.
(34:06):
And then when I look at human beings, I see that we're very confused and disoriented,
we're in a crisis of identification.
Who are we? What are we doing here? What's our purpose?
What do I really want to do with my life?
Do I want to have a partner? Do I want to have family?
Where do I want to live? What do I want that to feel like?
I go through that myself.
(34:27):
And when I look into the wilderness and I see the trees and the birds and the animals,
I don't see any other species on this planet dealing with an identity crisis.
I only see us.
If you looked at the squirrels and they were looking at each other and they were thinking,
I don't know if this is the right tree for us, I don't know if this is where we should be living,
I just don't know if I want to really have kids,
(34:49):
you would think those are some squirrels that are very interesting and very confused.
So that seems to be particularly a human element.
I see it in domesticated animals sometimes too, but I think that's because of their proximity to us.
They're sometimes not sure if they're a cat or a dog, but that's the difference.
It's rubbed off from us.
(35:10):
But in wild animals and in birds, you don't see that.
You see an inherent understanding of what it is that they're doing.
Their roles in the ecosystem.
In the ecosystem, exactly.
And so I think that's a really good model for us that the birds are just birding
and the trees are treeing and the wolves are wolfing.
(35:35):
But when it comes to humans, how do we human?
How do we just be?
Because we have this additional level of mind chatter that is both a power and a struggle.
How do we just human?
And so I've seen in the past in that space of service
(35:58):
that that seems to be one of those things that we have inside of us that we know is part of who we are
and part of our path and that helps us remember that we do have inherent purpose on this world.
And part of that purpose is to be of service and to serve others.
And that there is something that means to human.
(36:22):
And I've seen it in traditional peoples, maybe more than the modern people.
The traditional peoples, if you come from a particular culture, you usually eat what you eat.
And the weddings look the way that they look and the funerals look the way that they look.
And there's a lot of shared practices.
But now in the modern world, more than ever, we have more access to choices and decisions every single day.
(36:48):
And it can be confusing.
So trying to remember what our inherent purpose is, what it means to human,
the way that the trees know what it means to tree and the birds know what it means to bird is, I think, a good daily practice.
And pulling some of that wisdom from the natural world around us and spending time in that natural world has really served me.
(37:09):
How to be human.
Well, I think on that note, Ryan, what do you feel of light to be your sense of purpose?
And what are you working towards now and in the future?
Right now, for me personally, it feels like a transition time.
(37:34):
And the whole world was shifting and moving.
It felt like a moment of shifting and moving for myself as well.
I just recently am married.
I don't have children.
And I'm coming out of an organization and a half decade of work and trying to see what's next.
But in that moment of transition, I felt like it was really important to dive into educating myself in one area in particular.
(38:01):
Both my parents are healers.
My father is an M.D., medical doctor, who has spent a lot of his life integrating Eastern and Western practices and working a lot with diet and lifestyle to support people, to heal and maintain health.
My mother has done similar work with hypnotherapy and massage and really supported people to go inside more deeply and explore themselves and their past and do some of the emotional, physical, subtle energy healing that is so valuable.
(38:40):
And so in this transition time, I thought maybe it's time to start learning a little bit more about that healing path.
I have my own struggles in life, like many of us or all of us do, with my aches and pains and imbalances.
And so part of me and part of the journey has been just to heal myself, but also be able to share this.
(39:06):
As we talked about living in community, right now, a lot of the people that I live with and live around and spend time with,
there's been kind of a big rejection of Western medicine to some degree or hesitancy towards it.
We don't want to take the medication, the pills, the advice that's coming out of that space because we feel like these are chemicals.
(39:32):
We don't understand what they do. They only treat the symptoms. They don't go to the depth.
And so a lot of people are looking for alternative ways to heal, myself included.
But when we sort of reject or walk away from an entire medical system, it's tough to replace.
And Google is certainly not a satisfactory replacement for that.
(39:53):
And I see a lot of us really getting lost in trying to read online and learn, OK, well, what plant? What about this?
What about this tea? What about this herb? What about this type of diet, this type of fasting?
What can I do to make this all work? But I found that it's a bit incomplete in the way that the pieces come together.
(40:17):
It's not a foundational science. But spending so many years in between India and Nepal,
I've been really introduced consistently to Ayurveda, this sort of traditional medicine that comes out of India,
maybe about 5000 years old and its origins and has been developed over years and continues to be practiced very, very actively on that side of the world.
(40:44):
And I find that this resonates really well with myself.
And I've met a lot of people that really resonate strongly with Ayurveda.
And one of the big reasons is it's based in the elements, which I think is similar to Chinese medicine and a lot of other traditional medicines.
But it's based in the elements and in the surrounding environment and in the consciousness of plants and working with them.
(41:12):
And I was raised in the elemental space. My mother had taught me about the earth, the air, the fire and the water from a young age.
It's helped me to understand that these are the components that make up all of the great universe.
We are made of stardust. And so all of these, everything in the universe is made of these same core elements.
And so if we can understand them, we can understand better our bodies and our minds and the world around us.
(41:38):
And so in Ayurveda, those five elements, earth, air, fire, water and then ether are kind of the core of the science.
And I would not in any way try to teach Ayurveda in this space, but just sharing what I feel connected to in that,
because it gives me tools to reflect on the balance and imbalance.
(42:02):
And my father taught me from a very young age that balance is key, the middle path, the middle way, and always bringing things back into balance.
And the science of Ayurveda, I mean, Ayurveda means sort of the science of life is how it's commonly translated.
It supports balance and it works with individuals on a one-on-one basis, each individual person and who they are and how they are,
(42:30):
supporting them to come back to balance using diet and lifestyle, plant medicine, yoga practices very closely tied.
So, you know, one simple example for me that's been really defining for this last year and a half is working with the element of air.
I'm a very tall, thin, light person, kind of bony.
(42:55):
And in Ayurvedic system, I would be considered to be a very airy element, what some people know as kind of vata, air and space,
which helps me to sort of reflect on who I am and recognize some elements of my personality.
My mind is constantly moving like the wind change is very exciting to me.
It feels natural, but sometimes I can get caught up in too much change and the mind can take off like a cloud and kind of fade away and can get confused and disoriented.
(43:29):
And so understanding that in the mental space and also in the physical space, you know, in Ayurveda, the air quality is dry.
It's rough. It's mobile, constantly moving. It's cold.
You know, some people say they have a tendency to get cold really easily. That's oftentimes people with a similar body type.
(43:51):
So in understanding that element and how it works within me, I recognize that one of the things I really needed to do to support my own health was to stabilize that element.
Sometimes activating it can be helpful. Sometimes slowing it can be helpful.
In my situation, stabilizing the air element in my body was going to be really, really helpful for me.
(44:15):
It was going to help stabilize my mind. It was going to help stabilize my physical strength and body.
So I've been working on that for the last year.
And Pranayama, working with the breath, the prana, the life force energy and other breath work has really helped to balance and stabilize my energy, both mental and emotional and physical.
(44:44):
So that's something that I'm still building on and working on and figuring out how it is that I can have an understanding of that kind of elemental healing be a part of what I offer to community moving forward.
How do you think at this point, your application of that in light of service and that being such a strong, important component in your life?
(45:09):
Yeah, I mean, Mariana and my goal is to live outside of the modern society.
We'd like to be in traditional community. I like the mountains. She likes the ocean.
But somewhere between the high mountains and the lower ocean, a place where we can live with people that carry more of that traditional understanding and practice of how to be human that has come from generations and generations and generations before.
(45:46):
Maybe they cook with fire, maybe that speak an indigenous language that take care of the land, that farm and grow their own food, take care of animals.
That's what we really want. And we want to find ways to be of service to those communities while we also learn from them and support them.
(46:09):
This is what we have in Nepal. We live alongside a Hindu and Buddhist and multi-ethnic community there that teaches us many, many things.
And we find ways to be of service. And here on this side of the world in Mexico, that's our hope as well, to be able to build community alongside a community that's existed for a long time and find ways that we can be of service to each other.
(46:36):
And Ayurveda and traditional medicine in general, every traditional community that you go to, they have their own history of working with plants as medicine, being able to make their own medicine, being able to heal themselves outside of the Western system.
(46:58):
Because in their great history, the Western system is very, very recent. So for many years before that, there were alternative ways to heal.
So it's one piece of being able to live outside of this modern space. Mariana knows how to build with natural building materials, whatever she can find on site.
(47:19):
That's another great piece. It's very practical to be able to live outside of modern society.
So yeah, remembering how to live more traditionally, to be of service, take care of each other and the land, to drop into our inherent knowledge and understanding of what it means to be human.
(47:44):
And to have that be demonstrated in land and community that we invite people to come to. That's the vision and the hope.
Even if we weren't friends before this episode, I'd have to check in with you six months from now, a year from now, and just go, hey, what's the progress on that front?
(48:09):
Have you found stumbled upon, be connected to a space where you can practice all of those things?
And what great, two great superpowers you guys hold in the holistic health and in natural building to offer to one another as a union and to those that you're going to intentionally choose to live with and build with?
(48:34):
You know, the future is uncertain, and that used to be really scary.
But I think practicing being at peace in the unknown has been a big practice over the years.
And right now we're just standing in our own building our relationship, doing our daily practices, being open, setting intentions or prayer.
(49:02):
Listening and recognizing that it's easy as humans to want things to happen quickly.
But again, when we look to the natural world, things of great value take time.
Change is slow.
And so in that way, this next move for us, maybe it will take some time to really build roots and find what the next work and community project will look like.
(49:43):
But certainly when we're there, whatever that is, we can check back in and I'm sure we'll have more to share then.
I feel like even though you're speaking for yourselves, the game of patience and intentionality is applicable across all of humanity, truly.
(50:05):
I mean, I can only say what's helped me and patience is one of those things.
A daily practice, some consistency, Ayurveda really speaks a lot to that as well.
Eat consistently, sleep consistently, poop consistently, drink water consistently, bring some of that stability into your mind, body and spirit.
(50:33):
And then from there, I just try to stay conscious and awake and be aware of what the possibilities allow for.
And rather than trying to force things like I might have done in my 20s, trying instead to allow for what's next to arrive.
(51:00):
But it's not easy. Sometimes I get impatient and I want to try and make something happen and then I go to my breath.
Yes, it's always that take a turn to. I think that's very full circle. That's a good natural place to come to a close.
Yeah, thanks, Jonathan. I appreciate going for a walk with you in the jungle outside of Tulum and talking about life and the universe.
(51:28):
And I'm always happy to connect and share. You know, every time we see each other, we've learned new things and forgotten old things.
And it's always good to check in and return to our own awareness and what's important.
(52:08):
About three or four years ago, when I was practicing walking on the land and learning from nature, I wrote a little song called How to Be Human.
It goes like this. How to be human, how to be free, how to live in this world in perfect harmony.
(52:34):
How to be human, how to be wild, how to walk on this land, heart open like a child.
How to be human, it's easy to see. The birds bird, the trees tree, all you have to do is be.
(52:58):
I think it's really wonderful to look back on this past year and a half, nearly two years, on how much more life has provided and shown us, both Orion and I, and how he's become a father now to his firstborn with Mariana.
I'm thinking about the fact that back in Nepal, in Thakure, where their relationship began and where I met Mariana and how the whole saga of conscious impact and really devotional service work has begun, certainly in my life and the lives of many hundreds that have come through conscious impact.
(53:38):
Now for them to bring their son to the land and to meet the community members of Thakure and the surrounding area seems so full circle.
Even though I'm not there physically, I have this amazing, instead of FOMO, I'm calling it JOMO, a joy of missing out.
Yeah, I wonder what ideas and topics really resonated with you. I'd love to hear from any of you that are tuning in, whether you know me personally or not, please find me on the socials and drop me a DM.
(54:11):
Love to hear about what you think of the podcast, are there any ways I can make it better, anything of the constructive feedback type I'd be absolutely keen to take from you. As I dive deeper into this project, this new devotional project, I want to find ways in which I can see more blind sides and be more aware on how I can improve as a presenter, as a storyteller.
(54:39):
So thank you in advance. A huge shout out to Orion and Mariana for hosting me during my stay in the Tulum area back in February 2022. And I look forward to more conversations with them.
When I was younger, I used to kind of roll my eyes and not at all understand and of course skip through the credits and acknowledgments when movies and TV shows or podcasts.
(55:12):
The host talks about like, oh, we got to thank this person and this person, it just goes on and on and on and never really understood it.
I think in the last few years alone, I've really come around and realized my goodness, even the smaller projects like this require a whole team. They really require and really benefit from a whole community around it.
(55:35):
So I'm here to proudly acknowledge the humans through the years since the launch of my Patreon in 2018, who have been contributing and or contributed in the past at levels at which I just need to say their names and acknowledge all that I've done.
The time they've given to give me comments and dropping messages, giving me advice, and of course dropping in their hard earned dollars or whatever currency they're earning in to support me and all the projects that I've devoted my time to, including the Wilderness Within podcast.
(56:11):
So here we go. I want to give a special thank you to Paul Jones and Tuan Mays, Ayanna Bolland, Deborah Carson, Renee Dyke, Luke Fernandez, Kelly P, Karina Formile, Kelsey Lynn, Ken Russell, Kelsey Yates, Michael Chung, Evans Dickles, Reiki Corden, Christine Schumann, Lindsay Cleve-Veary.
(56:39):
I'm sorry if I'm butchering your name and anyone's.
(57:09):
Thank you so much y'all.
It really means a lot for your support, past, present, future. You make my dreams come true. You allow me to work where I travel to. You allow me to create content where I'm passing through.
(57:39):
You allow me to trust that each month I'm going to have this nice little baseline of income that really sustains me that sometimes really puts food on the table and allows me to go, Hey, like I can come into this project. I'm going to buy that piece of gear. I'm going to hire that person.
I'm going to invest in myself and the services and goods that allow me to create and expand and try new things and experiments. And all of this is a part of it. So thank you. I am so grateful for your support.
(58:27):
Thank you.
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