June 10, 2025 • 50 mins
In this powerful episode of the Will Power Podcast, Will Humphreys sits down with Mark Figueroa, seasoned clinic owner, PT mentor, and leadership advocate to unpack the real issues facing the next generation of physical and occupational therapists. From skyrocketing student debt to shifting workplace values, Mark shares how we as clinic owners and leaders can bridge the gap through intentional mentorship, emotional intelligence, and culture-driven leadership.
What You'll Learn:
- The real problem with the rising generation of PTs and OTs (hint: it’s not work ethic)
- How massive student debt is warping expectations and limiting opportunities
- Why mentorship isn’t optional, it’s the key to long-term retention and success
- Mark’s unique 3-year “Master Clinician” development path for new grads
- The first thing his mentorship program teaches (and why it’s not clinical)
- How to interview for values, not just skills: “Your Story, Your Values, Your Vision”
- The mindset shift every owner needs to make to grow with today’s workforce
- What makes time the greatest asset for any new graduate
What’s your greatest asset right now—money, time, or mindset? Drop your thoughts in the comments or share this episode with someone navigating their next step in PT or OT.
And if you haven’t already, subscribe to the Will Power Podcast for more episodes that challenge the status quo and equip you to lead with love and live on purpose.
Connect with Mark:
- Website: www.delvallept.com
- Email: info@delvallept.com
- FB: https://www.facebook.com/delvallept
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/delvalle_pt/?hl=en
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome back to the Willpower Podcast.
Our guest today is MarkFigueroa.
He's a physical therapist andprivate practice owner who owns
Del Valle Physical Therapy andHand Therapy in New Mexico.
He's been around for a numberof decades and this guy knows
how to hire.
He hires through a mentorshipprogram that not just builds
their clinical skill set butbuilds them as human beings.
(00:31):
It's a very different approachin mentoring that has resulted
in unbelievable retention.
We're talking top industryretention and our discussion
begins with this new generationof providers that are coming up.
And our discussion begins withthis new generation of providers
that are coming up, some of themisconceptions of how they're
negatively viewed and theopportunity of how we can mentor
them to not only better ourbusiness but change the
(00:53):
profession.
Enjoy the show, mark.
This is such a fun topic.
Let's kick it off right awaywith where you feel the problems
are in the rising generation ofPTs and OTs, like where do you
see those?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
problems, you know obviously.
Again, thanks for having me.
It's great to be here.
It's the first time I've donethis and I hope it is what you
think it should be so great show.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Amazing and you've got such a powerful background.
The people who are listeningjust heard your introduction.
They know they relate to youbecause the people who are
listening are mostly ownersgoing wow, this is exactly who.
I am, so I love that when doyou think those problems are
with this rising generation?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
So you know, I think, as a private practice owner and
I've been a private practiceowner for 23 years you know, you
see, how the business hasshifted.
I come from a different time,I'm a bit of a dinosaur, but you
learn a lot.
So what I see today that ismaybe or not maybe new is
(01:56):
obviously we have a great demandfor PTs for our businesses, for
our businesses and the.
I think what they're gettingtaught to some extent is tough
because they're entering amarket where, you know, we, we
as owners talk about, obviously,the ability to bill, the
(02:17):
ability to collect, the abilityto keep our businesses running
and also providing, you know,some semblance on all, on all of
our part to educating these newpeople coming out and helping
them to develop a career I saythis a lot a career, not a job.
So what I think is probably oneof the biggest problems is the
(02:38):
rising cost of education andwhat it costs for them to go to
school and then, obviously,they're going to demand a very,
very high salary coming out, andrightly so.
When you look at what your debtis to what you can earn, those
tipping points are gettingcloser.
As a business owner, what wehave to look at is what is our
(03:01):
reimbursement and what's goingto be the level of
responsibility and therequirement of that person in
your workspace in order to coverthe cost of having them there.
And again, I don't want to turnthis all into, you know,
spreadsheet 101, but you know,and I'll be honest, one of the
things that really I guess Icould be a little bit honest and
(03:25):
kind of speak my mind, becauseI've done this for so long, but
I kind of have a problem withyou know the school almost
unfairly charging these reallyexorbitant prices when you know
you've got a group of kids thatare all I say kids and I
apologize everybody, you're notkids, I'm just older kids.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
that are all.
I say kids and I apologizeeverybody, you're not kids, I'm
just older.
So I'd say Mark, I just wasinterviewing, I was working with
some students, some studentsRight before this call.
I had the Arizona student SIGsand I kept calling them kids and
I'm like I'm sorry, I apologizeand I mean no disrespect.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
The generation's awesome.
I'm just a bit older.
We're older, yes, but you know.
But they go to school and theycome out and they're all really
competitive right, but there'sonly so many slots at maybe the
more affordable schools, thestate schools, the state's
programs, and so when they don'tget in there, they almost feel
(04:21):
like they have to go to thesecolleges and I'm not going to
name them, but we all know whothey are that are charging the
$200,000, $250,000 a year to geta PT degree.
So you're not coming out as anorthopedic surgeon and the
ability to repay back thoseloans.
I think it's at least it's whatI hear.
You're going.
I'm going to be paying $1,200 amonth for the next 15 to 20
years and it just sets off areally contentious relationship
(04:46):
when we go out and look for jobs.
So I think I mean, if you, if I, had to lean into one thing,
that would be part of it.
Obviously, we have a lot ofpeople that retired after the
pandemic, that were older, thatjust didn't want to deal with a
change in the way we worked.
I, you know a lot of folks I'vetalked to out and about when
(05:07):
I've been at differentconferences, you know they talk
about there's a there's, there'sa new change in the way that
this new group want to work, andWell you're saying work ethic
like, your point is that there'sbeen at least some buzz with
some owners that maybe the workethic is it work ethic.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Am I saying that right or?
Speaker 2 (05:26):
is it?
Speaker 1 (05:26):
something else.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
What I would say.
It's just again.
It's different in the way thatthey want to work, All right.
And so what we can do is we cangrumble, we can gripe, we can
get upset, we can say hey look,I worked every Thanksgiving.
I did all these things in adifferent time.
I worked every Thanksgiving.
I did all these things in adifferent time.
But we have to get creative tounderstand what did they come up
(05:50):
with and what was presented tothem.
What did their generationprovide?
I mean, we didn't have to growup with an iPhone.
We didn't have to grow up withthe things that I think have
been a bit detrimental tosociety.
But that's another two hourconversation that we won't have.
So I think we have to getcreative and start trying to
(06:12):
understand.
So I tell my management staffall the time you know, let's be
curious not judgmental, becurious not judgmental.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Good wisdom, you know soccer coach of all time.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Yeah, well, you know, and so that that to me, uh,
tells me that, yes, we havethese, these changes, and it's
never going to be the way it was.
Yeah, you know, uh, and again,this is just my little take on
it because I've seen it we havebasically hospital and medical
administrators that aregraduating, that taken the place
(06:46):
of all these older folks thathad learned a few things in the
administration of what we do,and they're they're going back
to this concept that we can sellhealthcare like we can sell
tires.
Well, that's what it was likewhen I came into the business
back in the in the nineties.
There was acquisitions going on.
You know, health South andNovacare dominated the market.
(07:06):
I worked for Novocare right outof school.
I got laid off.
Can you imagine being aphysical therapist and getting
laid off as a result of theBalanced Budget Act of 1996,
they were going to put thetherapy cap on.
No one was going to make anymoney, so companies just got
lean.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
There were no jobs.
There were no jobs when I wasjobs when I was, there were no
jobs.
It was one of those thingswhere this generation I tell
them about they don't.
We don't talk about that enough, mark, this generation should
know their cycles and there wasa period where there were no
jobs.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Absolutely, and I mean I had to get creative.
Um.
So yeah, I mean I think thatthere's a there, there are,
there are these challenges.
I think we could all verse thema certain way.
Some people would just leanright into this generation has
no work ethic, and I think thatis a misrepresentation.
I agree.
(07:58):
I think what they value isdifferent than what I value,
mark.
What do they value, in myopinion?
I think it's very interestingbecause I think that they do
value time.
So, if we think about what aremy assets when I'm 20 years old,
what is my asset?
My asset is I can work hard.
I can find a way to get what Ineed.
(08:19):
So I talk a lot about wants andneeds, right?
So you don't want to get wantsuntil you have all your needs
covered.
So let's make sure your needsare covered.
And what does that really mean?
So I drove my Honda Civic for,you know, three years after I
graduated, I didn't buy a newcar, I didn't buy anything.
I bought a stereo.
I bought an amazing stereo thatsounded incredible.
That's it.
(08:39):
Because I needed to get out ofdebt, and that's my legacy.
Those are my heroes.
My parents, my grandparents.
They taught me this idea of youknow, let's be careful with
debt.
So that's the first thing, andI talk a lot about that to our
people at our clinic.
So we provide that.
We provide some education andlife skills.
So I think that's one of theother things I think that people
should always understand.
When you're trying to bringpeople into your culture, what
(09:02):
does your culture stand for andcan they engage in it?
And I'm sure everybody has thatconversation and everybody goes
through it.
But financial hygiene we talk alot about that.
So you know, when I graduatedfrom school, I worked hard
because I had that, I had theability.
I was excited, I wanted to helppeople.
I don't know, it's kind of lamemaybe, but that's really why I
(09:22):
wanted to do it and I didn'tneed a lot, I didn't need a
whole lot at the time.
I think today I have groupsthat come out and I have very
weird thoughts maybe about this.
But I think that, being soconnected to these things that
they see this lifestyle, thatmaybe they want to live, but
(09:44):
have you got all your needscovered?
I mean, you have this debt, sothey struggle with that because
they want time.
All right, so they really doneed some time and they feel
like they've earned some timewhere I never thought in those
terms, I never saw in my when Icame out in the world, time
wasn't an asset to me.
I didn't view it as that.
(10:05):
So I think they're moresophisticated in understanding
that time is an asset.
So they need time, they want agreat living so that they can
have some of these things, and Ithink that that's where the
lines don't shift.
So I might have said I'm goingto work harder and I'm going to
do everything possible and Idon't need time.
(10:27):
I don't, you know, I don't needthat balance right now because
I know that I'll get it on theother side, as long as I kind of
stay true to my plan.
And that's again paying off mydebt as fast as I could and
feeling like I could.
I think that's another thingthat really gets into this is
that sometimes we talk to peopleand I don't know if it's
because, you know, we had thepandemic.
(10:48):
It stunted maybe some growth anddevelopment, but there's like
this almost feeling that it willnever happen for them, like I
can't get there, I can't pay offall this debt, I can't work
that hard, I'm stuck, I'm lost.
So I kind of see that as well,and when I came out of school it
(11:09):
was like the world is youroyster, go get it.
Everything that you want inthis world is attainable and it
doesn't matter what it is.
If you want to be a stafftherapist, if you want to work,
you know, whatever it is.
If you want to own a business.
I mean, there were no limitsand by no means did I think that
, whatever choices and decisionsI had previously made, that I
couldn't play my way out of them.
(11:29):
So I kind of feel like that'ssomething else I get from some
of our younger folks.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Yeah, mark, I love that you're talking about this,
because I get a strong sensethat you know I love that we
started this like with this boldstatement of like a different
work ethic.
That's not the case.
I think I love that you talkedabout value and like what they
value and how their experienceshave shaped it differently from
ours.
And and the big problem isn'tthat the problem is the debt,
(11:57):
it's the focus on the money thatthey have to have, because they
have taken so muchridiculousness around that to
get to the point where we were,with much less debt, with way
more opportunity so that when Ihear.
When I hear owners talk aboutthis next generation being lazy,
I get really defensive.
Yeah, yeah, they are actuallymore passionate because they
(12:19):
wouldn't have signed up for thisif they weren't.
And there is this other thingthat you hit upon that I agree,
which is that, like there's adifferent value in terms of time
where people are legitimatelywanting to have.
You know, this whole thingabout um p is not wanting to
work full time.
That's a real common thing thatwe're seeing.
A lot of people are coming outof school saying I just want to
work 20 hours a week and theowners are like well, how are
(12:41):
you paying your bills?
And we don't.
We still don't know the answerto that but, they're valuing
time and flexibility aboveanything else, possibly for what
you said, which is that they'vegot this money thing that's
overhanging them to the pointwhere they can never get out
from underneath it, so theymight as well enjoy life while
it is.
And then, yes, they have cellphones which are promoting
lifestyles of like.
If you're not this, you'retrash kind of kind of right.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Yeah, I mean, there's so much it's a lot of noise.
It's a lot of noise.
I think there's there's farmore noise in the background
than we've ever had in our lives.
It's just there's so much gloomand doom and I'm trying to show
(13:29):
definitive pathways withmultiple tools and get them to
understand that you have needs.
Let's help you get those needsout of the way.
And what are the tools that Ican give you that will help you
be successful to gain thoseneeds?
So, as a business owner, I haveto be more dynamic than I ever
(13:51):
thought I could be and I have toprovide those types of
opportunities.
Right, and so let me circleback to this, because I did.
(14:17):
Okay, I really need to be amaster clinician.
So I went and studied with NIOPTand went through their whole
track and did everything withthem and along the way, met some
great people.
I mean, we could tell somestories.
I've met the rock stars, somegreat people.
I mean I we could tell somestories.
I've met the rock stars ofphysical therapy and, and none
of the.
I doubt your audience will knowmany of them, but anyways, so I
(14:39):
did that.
So if I could do it all overagain, it's what I'm trying to
teach the graduates that I'mdealing with, or and they don't
have to be graduates it could bea five-year season physical
therapist.
That is asking okay, what do Iwant to do with the next?
I'm trying to offer them acareer, not just a job, and what
I mean by that is to have theexperience that I did.
(15:00):
To some extent, they're allunique, but I would definitely
become a.
I would at least be offeringand I do offer I will help you
become a master clinician first.
I think if you do that, youhave set the table to be able to
understand everything else youneed in your business, because
you'll understand how to treat apatient, and that's invaluable
(15:23):
because you can attack everyproblem in your business, the
way that you attack a patient Ifyou treat your business-.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
I know the problem.
The patient has business.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
the way that you attack a patient If you treat
your business if you attack yourevery problem, the way you
attack a patient, the way thatwe were trained to do an
evaluation.
They go hand in hand.
And so then it doesn't becomeintimidating to say, okay, I'm
going to run a business now, orI want to run a business Because
I think that if you're in thedebt that you are today and
(15:53):
you're a new graduate and you'regoing, how on earth am I ever
going to get out of this?
Well, I would say you have afew choices, and life is about
choices.
Bottom line you made the choiceto go to that school, you made
the choice to take that debt.
Let's own that, okay, let's notshy away from it.
No-transcript.
(16:42):
Know, dad, I'm learning thesethings and so I'm.
She's a little bit of my testsubject, right, because she's in
that, that age group, but let'sreally find out what is?
What is your?
Where do you want to be?
Okay, you want to be debt freein 10 years.
You want to be debt free ineight years?
Perfect.
But what are you willing to doto do that?
Because I will tell you, in myopinion, one of the greatest
(17:03):
gifts that you can be in thisworld, I don't care what your,
your field of study is to bedebt free.
That's freedom.
So I think that we need tostart talking about that.
But if that's not what theirgoal is, they say, okay, look,
I've got a 12-year window,perfect.
Well, let's look at what are theoptions on the table to do that
(17:23):
, because obviously you have askill set that allows you to get
that.
But you cannot just look atthis as my whole life goal is to
pay off debt in 12 years.
It also should be what kind ofclinician am I going to be?
What kind of experiences am Igoing to garner?
Because and I'm sure somebodyhas said this out there money is
(17:48):
not happiness.
Money is choices.
Money is just choices.
It's not happiness.
It has nothing to do withhappiness.
And, by the way, you want toget happy, lean into gratitude.
Gratitude is where happinessbegins.
Money gives you choices.
Gratitude makes you happy.
This is not a PT.
You know mobilization technique.
This is something that's a lifeskill that I think you've got
(18:14):
to be engaged in these kind ofconversations with your people
to retain and to recruit, butalso to set a place where you
want to work.
I love that.
If I can jump in, please do,because I'll keep going unless
you do.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Yeah, I love it and please do, because I'll keep
going unless you do.
Yeah, I love it, because what Ihear in this is this idea of
like, because we started withthe initial problems that we see
and a lot of the listeners arejust like, of course.
The second, I think the shiftwas the mindset, because when we
start thinking of what it'slike to be them, versus just say
that they're lazy, it's not,they're not lazy.
I will tell you, as you and Iboth know they are, the heart
(18:58):
there's, I would argue they'reactually more there's a greater
work ethic just to get to wherethey started than we ever had to
.
But this idea of like there is agap and you're saying, to help
the profession, we should fillthat gap with leadership above
our clinical skills.
You were saying absolutelyabout the way we perceive life.
Let's talk about ourrelationship with money.
Is what you just said Like?
There's these elements ofleadership that we are doing to
help upgrade, and that's whatyou're doing in your current
(19:20):
practice.
So let me ask you, Mark, likein your current practice, as
you're upgrading, as you'reworking with this next
generation of physicaltherapists it is PTs, right.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
PTs and OT ot yeah, so we've got hand therapy, hand
therapy, uh, as an ot specialty,and then we we're an outpatient
orthopedic clinic.
You know a lot of whateverybody else is is trying to
do awesome.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
So when you like what is so you have these life
lessons.
Is it?
Is it organic, meaning likeyou're just constantly looking
for opportunities?
Is there structure where youlike?
Well, every every year, I sitdown and we take them to lunch
and we talk about life.
Tell me about what it lookslike for you to mentor the
leadership of the nextgeneration so that we have a
rising tide and that theprofession is better.
(20:05):
What do you do?
Speaker 2 (20:06):
So, first of all, physical therapy has been so
good to me.
First of all, physical therapyhas been so good to me.
I could not have picked abetter thing for me to do with
my life.
So that gratitude that I haveto the profession makes me want
to give back to the profession,because I want all of us on this
(20:34):
podcast that you talk to yourfriends about is that there is
some real power in what we do inthe medical world, that we,
that we live in this country andI feel like if you aren't
walking out of the house everyday, going, I make a difference.
I know, again that sounds kindof hokey, kind of corny, but we
do, and we do it because we getto spend more time.
There's that time again, wespend more time with our
patients than a lot of differentclinicians do.
So what are you going to dowith that time?
(20:54):
So back to your originalquestion, though, besides just
being so grateful for what wehave and what we've accomplished
, I'm putting together astructured mentorship program
with everybody in my clinic, notjust new grads.
I have a couple of therapists.
I have a therapist that's beenwith me 17 years.
I have another therapist that'sbeen with me 20 years.
(21:15):
So what I've decided to do inmy clinic is I'm mentoring on
all levels.
So my management team, wementor on the business side and
that's been great for me,because I didn't go to business
school but I ran a business for23 years, so I better know a few
things.
It just doesn't happen and youknow we've made some great
(21:38):
decisions and we made some notso great decisions.
So that mentorship has beengreat.
And then when we brought in ournew graduates, this new group,
we have put together a definedpackage and I mean and that's
what was offered to them to comework for us, I said you know
what?
You don't have to come to workfor me and be 20 year veteran,
17 year veteran, come work forme for three years.
(21:59):
And here's my deal and here'swhat I'm offering I will make
you a master clinician in threeyears and I will make sure that
you are versed in financialhygiene.
Make sure that you are versedin financial hygiene, in how.
How do you really find moretime If and again, I'm not
(22:20):
butting into their personallives, it's as much as they want
to offer to me to help themwith, but all those things that
seem to get in the way of themkind of I don't know having the
fullness that they want.
We're going to have a formalprogram that we do.
That is part of the mentorship.
(22:42):
The very first and this is kindof fun and I really like this
the first lesson that we teachin the mentorship program to
this new grad group is emotionalintelligence.
So they have to read emotionalintelligence in the very first
part of your mentorship.
That's the first thing, becauseyou and I both have read the
(23:02):
book that both says and we allknow this that the level of
success that you will attain inlife has nothing to do with your
degrees and what's after yourname.
It's your level of emotionalintelligence.
That's it.
So that's the first gift wegive them, that the very first
day, and I've given that toeverybody else in the clinic on
top of it.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
How's it going to seem Like you know back on it?
Does it change their lives?
Is it like?
What does that look like?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
It really depends on what they're going to do in
terms of how they use it.
So I've got that.
I've had some people that arelike, wow, that's powerful,
never thought of it that way.
I have others that are like,it's nice, I'll think about that
.
It really is, and we don'tforce feed anything.
But it's really your level ofhow you want to interact with it
(23:54):
.
But we've had, in my opinion,we've had great results, but not
only from our clinical staff,but from our back office staff
and just understanding again theculture that you are evolving
into, and then this gives them away to engage.
You can have the world'sgreatest culture in the world.
I learned this the hard way.
You could have the absoluteflipping great culture, but if
(24:20):
your staff won't engage in it,you've done a lot of work for
nothing.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
So that's why I start with emotional intelligence.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
And that's why.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Yep, that's a cultural piece for you,
absolutely.
And I'm guessing, so you'resaying it cultural piece for you
You're talking about.
I'm guessing, so you're sayingit depends on the person how
they receive it.
What's some of the feedbackyou've had after they've gotten
into it?
Speaker 2 (24:40):
So the great thing is and I forget the name of the
author, it's the book title.
Right on top is EmotionalIntelligence.
I'm sure you've read it.
And then they've got a testright.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
So you can go take this test and actually test.
For anyone who's listening, yes, please, it's an essential
because it talks about, like,where you have your gaps in
there.
It helps you identify youractual gaps in emotional
intelligence.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
It's a game-changing book.
So they take the test and thenyou know.
Obviously the way that it worksis you know, you take the test,
read the book, work on some ofthe activities and then retest.
That's the fun part.
And again I kind of put it onthem to say, look, in the next
six months I want you to retest.
But then I'll bring it up justlike in passing hey, did you
(25:28):
retest?
Yeah, did it look any different?
Yeah, it looked a lot different.
And I mean some people are verywilling to share that with you
because it's such a I think thatpiece it's very personal
journey for people because youknow, when I took it I went man,
I'm the most emotionallyintelligent cat there is.
I own a business.
I'll talk to the guy on thestreet there's, you're never a
(25:49):
stranger if I'm in the room.
But I took it and went whoa,there's some things that I could
get better at.
And that's what it is right.
It's getting better.
We'll never be perfect, but toget better.
So that's the first thing we dowith our mentorship program is
we talk about emotionalintelligence and then we can
reference that in every programwe put in every tough moment.
(26:12):
That has nothing to do withclinical decision making, just
the interaction.
You know we have better problemsolving abilities when we bring
a new program on or we askpeople to do new things and
change, because change is thehardest thing know in any
situation, and so we think ifwe've at least primed them with
(26:34):
this new weapon, we can have abetter outcome.
So, and again it's.
It's not perfect.
I and I certainly do not meanto put out there that we've
developed utopia in my clinic,because we have just as many
problems as you do but but wehave tools to really solve those
problems as they come and welearn from them every time.
(26:57):
So we have got a formal way toteach, and that's what I'm doing
.
I'm heading up the mentorshipprogram.
Give me three years and we willget you in a place where you can
see a real path to whatever itis that you want to do in this
field.
Now, again, I need some buy-infrom you, though, so it may be a
(27:22):
lot of work if this is yourtime frame, but let's be clear
about that.
When we hire somebody, we tellthem you want to command the
salary.
Well then, this is the amountof work I need for all of us to
work symbiotically and I thinkthose are great conversations to
have.
In terms of expectations, yeah,I think that.
(27:42):
I think that that's a you know,if you're coming in commanding
this huge salary, great Wellthis is what I'm going to have
to get there.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
And, mark, I'll tell you.
I'm going to talk to the rockstars for a second, because,
rock stars, what I like aboutwhat Mark is saying at this
point is if you're listening isthat we could do a much better
job of telling the person we'rehiring what the outcome is and
when to expect it.
(28:19):
So, rock stars, as owners andleaders, we already understand
this concept of when a patientcomes into the clinic and we're
talking to them and they'relooking to us to help them and
we say there's a difference inbuy-in when we say, well, let's
treat you for two to three timesa week for three to four weeks,
and after a month, let's take alook Versus Susan, I want you
(28:41):
coming three times a week Infour weeks.
We will resolve this.
If by any chance it's notresolved, we'll understand what
we're missing and make a newplan.
So, as owners, when we'rehiring, I love how Mark's
talking about culture to begin,and this thing called the end in
mind.
What did Mark say In three years, if you give me and he's really
(29:04):
clear on the agreement here'swhat I expect from you and this
is the salary you want, buthere's what the path looks like.
The number one reason why peopleleave a company is because they
don't see a future in it, andso if we can create that future
in it and have markable outcomes, in three years you will be
able to pay down your debt, feelin charge of your career, have
(29:25):
work-life balance.
And, by the way, it's not justclinical skills you're going to
get.
You've got to get emotionalintelligence, you've got to get
this other thing calledleadership development, and Mark
is competing in a world of onewhen he recruits, so his problem
then becomes messaging.
Maybe you've got that mastered,mark, but, like most people,
(29:47):
where they really, where peoplestruggle, they're like where do
I begin?
It's like begin with the offer,start with the end in mind of
who you want, yes, and thenbuild towards that person with
an offer and then, when you'reas far along as mark is, see
mark, I'm willing to bet youstruggle with retention a lot
less than others, and where wecould all improve is on that
thing called messaging of likehow do we get people who've
(30:10):
never met Mark or know any ofhis team members?
to know about this product Causeit's not a fit for all, but for
the people it is.
They're going to move mountains, to move to New Mexico to go
work for him, so I'm surerecruit so retention, I'm
guessing is is a much bettersituation.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
The average therapist tell me about retention.
It's great, you know.
Uh, we, last year we had a um.
We, we had two people that wegot from a school in Arizona and
they came out and, um, one ofthem is still with me.
We did, we, within about ninemonths, a person left.
Uh, she was a new grad, uh, 24years old, and her exact thing.
(30:50):
And so for us, what we deal,deal with this is where we're
located, where we're about ahundred thousand in terms of a
city.
We're not, we're not the hotbedof, you know, a real young
generation in our town.
We're a retirement city really.
Yeah, people are going to NewMexico when they're younger.
Yeah, a lot of people will goto school here and leave New
Mexico, and I did, and I want tocircle back to that because
(31:12):
there's a point to that as well.
But anyways, so she came, shewas great, she bought in, she
wanted the mentorship.
She met somebody who was inPhoenix and decided to move to
Phoenix to be closer to him.
But on her exit and I'm sureeverybody does that, especially
on the people that leave, thatyou don't have to get, I mean
(31:33):
maybe say fire the people thatleave, like in this situation,
boy, we scrubbed as much as wecould to get as much information
from her.
What are we doing right?
What can we do better?
How did we recruit you?
Did you like the way yourecruited, did we?
I mean, were we competitive?
Blah, blah, blah blah.
You can get so much information.
And she said you know what,mark, if you had a Del Valle in
(31:56):
Phoenix, I'd be there Mondaymorning.
She goes I just need to becloser to this person that she
wants to get close to.
So that's the kind of things wecompete with.
But, like I told you, we've got20 years, 17 years.
I've got one employee.
My chief operating officer hasbeen with us for 23 years, been
(32:17):
here since the inception of thecompany.
So there are things that youcan't put on paper, that you
can't put in a metric, that aregoing to get buy-in and
retention, but you've got to dothem and they're going to be
different for everybody.
It has to resonate with yourvalues first, and you need to
(32:37):
know what that is.
I would say, when we interviewfolks, we have a very funny not
funny way of interviewing, butwe interview.
But when they get to me and I'mthe last person I asked them
three questions.
I don't ask them to resolveproblems, or did you?
You know what's your greateststrength?
I asked him three questions.
I said today we're going totalk about three things your
story, your value and yourvision.
(32:58):
Tell me what your story is,tell me what your values are,
tell me what your vision is, andif those resonate with what
mine are, then we might be ableto be Navy SEALs of physical
therapy together and then we getexcited and we start having fun
immediately.
So that's how we approach thisa little bit different, but you
(33:18):
know, going back to what we werewith, experience, pardon me,
just figured out the line ofquestioning on your own Cause.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
I'll tell you directly.
I hired coaches when I couldn'thire years ago and I literally
ask those same three questionsin a different way.
When I have a six questioninterview, um, when I was hiring
for 26 locations and that wasmy superpower, literally that
was, those were three of my sixlocations.
Uh, questions was like thisidea of like purpose being
(33:46):
history, values, present, vision, future, and I love how you get
that.
Did you figure that out on yourown?
Speaker 2 (33:52):
yeah, I mean it's, it's pretty pretty, pretty
simple, but and you know I'mgonna stop this, I'm gonna, I'm
gonna get companies for years.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
It is not that simple for people to see.
So I want people rock stars tolisten to what he did.
As a side note, mark, because Iwant to get to this story about
how you left and came back isthis idea that we started the
episode talking about theproblems of physical therapy?
This episode is all about howto build a brighter future for
the profession through ourpractice.
So what we're learning is itcomes back to leadership,
(34:22):
because there's a gap that weidentify between the students
and the current generation.
Then you bridge it by buildingtheir future, with them in mind,
around the values of thecompany, but is able to provide
a distinct product and a pathfor their students to become
(34:49):
powerful, independent leaders.
That's how we save theprofession.
That's how we rise the tideacross the board.
So I think it's cool because youare a living example of that
piece.
I'm sure you have your problems, like you said, but you have
people who are with you for 20some odd years, mark.
That tells me that you are in aposition of having absolute
(35:12):
mastery of learning how to buildleaders and that if we could do
a better job of across the yeah, I mean it doesn't solve
recruiting, it doesn't solvemarketing messaging, it doesn't
solve a few other issues.
It doesn't solve reimbursementyet.
But I would even argue overtime that would eventually solve
those other problems.
Can we jump a little bit?
I'd like to hear the succinctas possible.
So I graduated from UNMUniversity of New Mexico in 1997
(35:33):
.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
My first job was in Las Cruces because I needed the
same thing that everybody elsedid.
I needed a job and it was agood opportunity.
So I came here instead ofstaying in Albuquerque, which
was going to be a lot harder,but it really fit a lot of the
pieces of what I wanted.
After about a year and a half Igot laid off, basically.
(36:10):
But the company I worked for,which was Novocare, they also
staffed a hospital here in town,so they just pushed me into the
hospital and I was not going towork in a hospital.
So I had resumes out all overthe place and within about a
week in the hospital, two weeks,they sent me to Santa Fe here
in New Mexico to run a clinicfor them in Santa Fe.
It was an outpatient officethere, so it was a little bump
(36:30):
in salary.
So and if I told you guys whatmy salaries were back then you
would just go why on earth wouldyou do this?
So I went to Santa Fe, got alittle bump there and was there
for about nine months and then Iended up in Western New York.
I met a girl, moved out toWestern New York Actually I was
living in Canada but thenWestern New York through another
(36:51):
friend of mine, mike Adessothere's a shout-out to Mike
Adesso Was working for a companyWestern New York Physical and
Occupational Therapy Group, theworst name on the planet and
they brought me in and I tookabout a $25,000 pay cut to work
there and take on twice theresponsibility.
So this is what I want to kindof make the point of.
(37:11):
I took a big pay cut and, yeah,there was a person there that I
(37:32):
was working for.
They were great friends withmany of the pioneers of physical
therapy.
Dick Earhart would come fromPennsylvania to do con ed
classes because there was not acon ed requirement in New York,
but he would come so he coulddrink beer with his old buddies
and show us a few minutes on aweekend.
Anybody that knows Dick Earharthe's a legend.
I got to ride around in a golfcart with Mike Rogers, who was
(37:54):
Gulf States Physical Therapyback 100 years ago, one of the
first manual therapycertifications.
I didn't even know who thesegiants were, but I got to know
them through this.
I was at an AOPT meeting in 2001when Earl Petman was the
keynote speaker, and if youdon't know who Earl Petman is,
(38:14):
earl Petman is definitely one ofmy heroes.
So I got to listen to EarlPetman.
I'm sitting on a couch withDick Earhart.
Ask Dick, what would you do ifyou were me?
I'm four years out of school, Iwant to become a master
clinician.
And he was talking aboutUniversity of Pittsburgh, where
he was at we're doing this, thatand the other.
And he stopped cold and saidforget that, go learn from that
(38:35):
guy.
So I got the world's greatestadvice from some of the greatest
physical therapists in ourorbit and I got in touch.
I took every one of my NIOPTcourses with Earl Petman.
What a joy.
So I got a career and had I nottaken that measly $20,000 pay
(38:58):
cut and I say measly now?
At the time it was, oh my gosh,it was awful.
But had I not done that, Iwould not have had part of the
life I have today.
So when you're looking atoffers and you're looking at the
money and you're going, man, Igot to make the most money
possible.
This is why we're talking aboutthese things right now is what
(39:19):
is that person going to do withyou, and are you going to work
with them or are you going towork for them?
I think that's a hugedistinction between your next
job.
Are you working for somebody orare you working with somebody?
And if you don't know thedifference, then you have some
questions to ask, becauseeverybody that works in my
(39:41):
clinic works with me and I workwith them and, like I said, you
want to have these thingsfigured out before you even get
into that negotiation.
In that, yes, you're going tomake money and you've got to
make some money.
I get that.
You have needs and we've got toget those needs taken out of
the way.
But you also have a life, andthis goes back to what I was
(40:04):
talking about earlier.
You can't just look and say,okay, because I'm going to help
you do that.
12 years, get rid of yourstudent debt.
This is what you do.
Boom, we've got it.
But what kind of person are yougoing to become?
From point A to point B?
What kind of clinician?
What are you going to have?
Because the other gap thatthese kids don't have again I
said kids that these youngprofessionals don't have when
(40:24):
they leave school is they don'thave the level of experience
treating a patient.
There's going to be someanxiety when somebody walks in
and they've never seen thediagnoses.
In three years, you can be amaster clinician and you will
not have that level of anxietyany longer with what we're going
to teach you.
So those are the kinds ofthings that I think, as a
(40:45):
student or a new grad or afive-year grad for that matter
those are the kinds of thingsthat I think you should want to
hear.
If you're on this arc and youhaven't got to a point in life
where you can say my life isabout wants now and it's no
longer about needs, there is anarc that you have to go on.
And then, in order to reallymake your time an asset, that's
(41:07):
the arc you have to go on,because at some point that time
is going to be more valuablethan money and the only way you
turn your time more valuablethan money is you got to get all
those needs taken care of.
And let's have thatconversation and let's be clear
about it and let's not pussyfootaround it.
And for every owner out therethat wants to play the nuclear
arms race of how much we paythese kids that are coming out
(41:29):
of school, think about thatEvery single time you go.
Well, I guess we could pay them$140,000.
But we got a decrease inMedicare.
And again, if you're a privatepractice, this does not apply to
you.
I understand that.
But if you are in the worldthat I'm in, where we have
third-party reimbursement, weall need to be responsible to
(41:52):
this idea of what are we payingthese people, because it's not
sustainable.
We are going to hit a tippingpoint.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
When we don't honor the income that we're making,
we're perpetuating the problemAbsolutely.
And when you were talking tothe students directly, mark it
because it was like, yeah,that's cool, I was, you ended up
going there.
But my thought was like this isgreat for owners to hear,
because if we can stop doing thenuclear arms race of competing
because students, when theydon't know, they don't have that
(42:21):
clarity of they're going towork with us and there's an end
in mind and a product for beingthere that goes beyond a skill
set, they end up they we'releaving it to them to go.
Well, you have a lot of debt,so you're going to take this job
for a thousand dollardifference.
Your story.
The big takeaway out of thatwas this idea that, like, what
we want to invest in at a schoolis money is a big part of that,
(42:43):
but, but it's not the biggestpart.
The biggest part is who webecome and who we this is I get.
I mentor students across thecountry.
I speak at universities.
All the time.
The thing I say to them is stopworrying about passing the
boards and start focusing on whoyou should work with, because
when you graduate, the thingthat will matter is the company
you work with and the leadersyou learn from.
(43:04):
If you can get that right,you'll be fine.
You pass the boards.
I said you're all eventuallygoing to pass the boards, even
though you and I both know thatAbsolutely.
It's like you know yeah, passthe boards, worry about it, but
you've got to invest time now tostart figuring that out,
because they pass the boards,they're like everything's going
to be fine.
No, no, this is where thehardship comes in.
(43:24):
So listen, mark, you've beenphenomenal.
I.
I think we've hit a really hardpoint and a very powerful point
that I want to end on, becausewe have completed a cycle of the
fit.
I didn't find the the the mainissue in the industry and we've
really built out this wholebeautiful.
You just unloaded tons of valuearound this thing, around how
(43:45):
we create an experience for ournext generation.
That will serve us in recruiting, by the way, but also build
them to be leaders, to thinkabout profitability, how we as
owners should take a standagainst, just like marginalizing
the business by trying to paymore as our only differentiator,
and how that changes theindustry as a whole.
(44:06):
So, Mark, I would love for acouple of parting questions
before we end.
And number one is there abesides emotional intelligence?
What's another book that yourecommend to?
Speaker 2 (44:18):
people.
The psychology of money, youknow, that's the one that I
think everybody should have thatbook in their library.
I don't care if you are a20-year veteran of this, if
you're a new grad, my daughter.
I'm paying my daughter $100 toread this book and to write me a
two-page summary of this book.
(44:39):
It is very simple.
It's a great read.
It is very simple, it's a greatread and I think that in our
society, people have tounderstand that money does not
equate to happiness.
It gives you choices andoptions and I think there's
nothing wrong with money.
I'm not villainizing, there'snothing.
I mean, make as much money asyou can, but I think the
(45:02):
psychology of money is reallyinteresting.
I think it's a great.
It's such an easy read and youwalk away going.
Man, that's awesome.
And this is what I would havetold somebody when they were 20
years old.
This would be the advice Iwould have given them.
The greatest asset that allthese young people coming out of
school, their greatest assetI'm going to ask you Will, what
do you think the greatest assetof that new graduate walking out
(45:25):
of school?
What is their greatest asset Ifthey're 24 years old?
What's their greatest asset?
Their time.
Their time.
Absolutely, man.
I, like you, Will.
This has been a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
I, like you too, I've had a great time, they have
time.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
So when they're stressed and really worried
about this whole thing, they'reon this journey of they've got
time.
And if you make the rightdecisions, boy.
I wish I had made a lot betterdecisions with my financial
world at those early years,because time is your greatest
asset.
My 20-year-old daughter now,when I ask her what's your
(46:02):
greatest asset, she says Dad,it's my time.
Madison, there you go, Perfect.
What's your next question?
Speaker 1 (46:10):
I want to finish on that one.
I think you hit it so hard,mark.
You were phenomenal.
Thank you so much for being aguest on the show.
Guys, like I said at the intro,go check out his clinic, his
website, go learn about more.
But if they do want to get ahold of you directly, mark, how
do they do?
Speaker 2 (46:23):
that.
I think we have my emailaddress that I gave you.
It's my personal email addressand I give it.
You can blast that.
I spoke at CSM earlier this yearand this is my challenge to
everybody listening.
I spoke at CSM this year to agroup of 100 students and I gave
(46:45):
very similar things.
In my talk I said look, whatI'm giving you that I won't give
anybody else is.
I give you 100% access to myexperience.
You can ask me any question.
I will help you with anything.
I got zero responses and thatwas about six months ago.
And again, I'm not going totell you I know everything, but
(47:06):
if I knew somebody that waswilling to give me advice
without having to subscribe orhave to do something in order to
do I'm going to bombard youremail box with things.
No, I just want to share what Ican to help you be better and
to make our profession better.
That's how much I believe inthis.
So I challenge your audience.
(47:29):
If you have a question, pleaseask and I will tell you.
And if I don't know the answer,I've got great resources.
Can I throw a couple of shoutouts real quick before we leave,
of course, so these are peoplethat are just great in my life
and I feel like I've never had avenue to say great things.
So my buddy Mike Adesso thatgot me my job for Western New
York Physical Therapy.
(47:50):
Mike Steve Allred.
Our buddy, jamie Schreier ourfriend Love that guy.
Practice Freedom If anybodyneeds a little help in your
practice, go look at PracticeFreedom with Jamie Schreier Good
stuff.
Linda John Do you know LindaJohn?
If you don't know Linda John,you need to know Linda John.
How about Eva Norman?
Do you know Eva Norman?
Ira Gorman how about Ira Gotta?
(48:10):
Know Ira?
Drew Contreras at APTA oh mygosh, if you see Drew sitting at
the bar, go sit and have adrink.
The guy's got the best stories.
Smart dude.
If Drew and I are drinking atthe bar together, sit there for
two hours, we will have a ball.
Paul Welk if anybody needs agreat attorney, talk to Paul.
(48:32):
If you don't know Paul, paul isphenomenal, good friend of mine
.
And then I want to say anybodythat knew Phil Teigel, phil
passed this year and he was agiant in our uh pt community in
the legislative side.
We didn't even get to that wedo.
I do a whole other legislativeside to what we do.
I I go to congress a coupletimes a year and all the good
(48:54):
people, if you want to talkabout.
Hey, listen, I'm huge onadvocacy.
I could talk for an hour onadvocacy.
And why so anybody that is nota member of the APTA?
If you don't want to be amember, I respect that, but
email me.
Let's have a conversation andlet's talk about why we're not.
And if you're not, if you'renot giving a little money to the
pack, tell me why and I'll tellyou why it's important that you
(49:17):
do so.
I mean, we could do this allday, will?
You didn't give me enough time,will?
Speaker 1 (49:22):
I had a whole section ready for that.
I won't just have to have youback, Mark.
That's all it means.
Speaker 2 (49:26):
Hey, listen, I really enjoyed today and I really
appreciate what you're doing forthe profession.
Oh, you're so cool and when weget off, when we're finished, I
got something else for you.
Speaker 1 (49:41):
Oh guys, I can't wait to tell you what that is.
So listen, mark, you've beenphenomenal, such a great guest.
Rockstars, take this man's up,take this advice up.
Really, reach out if you haveany questions.
Those people you mentioned arephenomenal and I just reiterate
that Mark is a great place tostart.
If you don't have a network, ifyou have someone like Mark in
your corner, there's nothing youcan't overcome.
So, rockstars, thanks fortuning in to the Willpower
Podcast.
(50:01):
As always, this is WillHumphries, reminding you to lead
with love, live on purpose andnever give up on your freedom.
Until next time.
Thank you so much for takingthe time to listen to today's
episode.
As a thank you, I have a gift.
In today's show notes there's alink for you to join the
Stress-Free PT newsletter.
This is a comedy newsletter foranyone who works in healthcare
(50:23):
and of course, we're going tohave comedy bits.
We're going to haveinspirational stories,
leadership tidbits.
It's going to be a weeklynewsletter just to lighten your
week, to help you do what youlove with more passion.
So click that link below andjoin that newsletter and we'll
see you in our next episode.
Welcome back to the Willpower Podcast.
Our guest today is MarkFigueroa.
He's a physical therapist andprivate practice owner who owns
Del Valle Physical Therapy andHand Therapy in New Mexico.
He's been around for a numberof decades and this guy knows
how to hire.
He hires through a mentorshipprogram that not just builds
their clinical skill set butbuilds them as human beings.
(00:31):
It's a very different approachin mentoring that has resulted
in unbelievable retention.
We're talking top industryretention and our discussion
begins with this new generationof providers that are coming up.
And our discussion begins withthis new generation of providers
that are coming up, some of themisconceptions of how they're
negatively viewed and theopportunity of how we can mentor
them to not only better ourbusiness but change the
(00:53):
profession.
Enjoy the show, mark.
This is such a fun topic.
Let's kick it off right awaywith where you feel the problems
are in the rising generation ofPTs and OTs, like where do you
see those?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
problems, you know obviously.
Again, thanks for having me.
It's great to be here.
It's the first time I've donethis and I hope it is what you
think it should be so great show.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Amazing and you've got such a powerful background.
The people who are listeningjust heard your introduction.
They know they relate to youbecause the people who are
listening are mostly ownersgoing wow, this is exactly who.
I am, so I love that when doyou think those problems are
with this rising generation?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
So you know, I think, as a private practice owner and
I've been a private practiceowner for 23 years you know, you
see, how the business hasshifted.
I come from a different time,I'm a bit of a dinosaur, but you
learn a lot.
So what I see today that ismaybe or not maybe new is
(01:56):
obviously we have a great demandfor PTs for our businesses, for
our businesses and the.
I think what they're gettingtaught to some extent is tough
because they're entering amarket where, you know, we, we
as owners talk about, obviously,the ability to bill, the
(02:17):
ability to collect, the abilityto keep our businesses running
and also providing, you know,some semblance on all, on all of
our part to educating these newpeople coming out and helping
them to develop a career I saythis a lot a career, not a job.
So what I think is probably oneof the biggest problems is the
(02:38):
rising cost of education andwhat it costs for them to go to
school and then, obviously,they're going to demand a very,
very high salary coming out, andrightly so.
When you look at what your debtis to what you can earn, those
tipping points are gettingcloser.
As a business owner, what wehave to look at is what is our
(03:01):
reimbursement and what's goingto be the level of
responsibility and therequirement of that person in
your workspace in order to coverthe cost of having them there.
And again, I don't want to turnthis all into, you know,
spreadsheet 101, but you know,and I'll be honest, one of the
things that really I guess Icould be a little bit honest and
(03:25):
kind of speak my mind, becauseI've done this for so long, but
I kind of have a problem withyou know the school almost
unfairly charging these reallyexorbitant prices when you know
you've got a group of kids thatare all I say kids and I
apologize everybody, you're notkids, I'm just older kids.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
that are all.
I say kids and I apologizeeverybody, you're not kids, I'm
just older.
So I'd say Mark, I just wasinterviewing, I was working with
some students, some studentsRight before this call.
I had the Arizona student SIGsand I kept calling them kids and
I'm like I'm sorry, I apologizeand I mean no disrespect.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
The generation's awesome.
I'm just a bit older.
We're older, yes, but you know.
But they go to school and theycome out and they're all really
competitive right, but there'sonly so many slots at maybe the
more affordable schools, thestate schools, the state's
programs, and so when they don'tget in there, they almost feel
(04:21):
like they have to go to thesecolleges and I'm not going to
name them, but we all know whothey are that are charging the
$200,000, $250,000 a year to geta PT degree.
So you're not coming out as anorthopedic surgeon and the
ability to repay back thoseloans.
I think it's at least it's whatI hear.
You're going.
I'm going to be paying $1,200 amonth for the next 15 to 20
years and it just sets off areally contentious relationship
(04:46):
when we go out and look for jobs.
So I think I mean, if you, if I, had to lean into one thing,
that would be part of it.
Obviously, we have a lot ofpeople that retired after the
pandemic, that were older, thatjust didn't want to deal with a
change in the way we worked.
I, you know a lot of folks I'vetalked to out and about when
(05:07):
I've been at differentconferences, you know they talk
about there's a there's, there'sa new change in the way that
this new group want to work, andWell you're saying work ethic
like, your point is that there'sbeen at least some buzz with
some owners that maybe the workethic is it work ethic.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Am I saying that right or?
Speaker 2 (05:26):
is it?
Speaker 1 (05:26):
something else.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
What I would say.
It's just again.
It's different in the way thatthey want to work, All right.
And so what we can do is we cangrumble, we can gripe, we can
get upset, we can say hey look,I worked every Thanksgiving.
I did all these things in adifferent time.
I worked every Thanksgiving.
I did all these things in adifferent time.
But we have to get creative tounderstand what did they come up
(05:50):
with and what was presented tothem.
What did their generationprovide?
I mean, we didn't have to growup with an iPhone.
We didn't have to grow up withthe things that I think have
been a bit detrimental tosociety.
But that's another two hourconversation that we won't have.
So I think we have to getcreative and start trying to
(06:12):
understand.
So I tell my management staffall the time you know, let's be
curious not judgmental, becurious not judgmental.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Good wisdom, you know soccer coach of all time.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Yeah, well, you know, and so that that to me, uh,
tells me that, yes, we havethese, these changes, and it's
never going to be the way it was.
Yeah, you know, uh, and again,this is just my little take on
it because I've seen it we havebasically hospital and medical
administrators that aregraduating, that taken the place
(06:46):
of all these older folks thathad learned a few things in the
administration of what we do,and they're they're going back
to this concept that we can sellhealthcare like we can sell
tires.
Well, that's what it was likewhen I came into the business
back in the in the nineties.
There was acquisitions going on.
You know, health South andNovacare dominated the market.
(07:06):
I worked for Novocare right outof school.
I got laid off.
Can you imagine being aphysical therapist and getting
laid off as a result of theBalanced Budget Act of 1996,
they were going to put thetherapy cap on.
No one was going to make anymoney, so companies just got
lean.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
There were no jobs.
There were no jobs when I wasjobs when I was, there were no
jobs.
It was one of those thingswhere this generation I tell
them about they don't.
We don't talk about that enough, mark, this generation should
know their cycles and there wasa period where there were no
jobs.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Absolutely, and I mean I had to get creative.
Um.
So yeah, I mean I think thatthere's a there, there are,
there are these challenges.
I think we could all verse thema certain way.
Some people would just leanright into this generation has
no work ethic, and I think thatis a misrepresentation.
I agree.
(07:58):
I think what they value isdifferent than what I value,
mark.
What do they value, in myopinion?
I think it's very interestingbecause I think that they do
value time.
So, if we think about what aremy assets when I'm 20 years old,
what is my asset?
My asset is I can work hard.
I can find a way to get what Ineed.
(08:19):
So I talk a lot about wants andneeds, right?
So you don't want to get wantsuntil you have all your needs
covered.
So let's make sure your needsare covered.
And what does that really mean?
So I drove my Honda Civic for,you know, three years after I
graduated, I didn't buy a newcar, I didn't buy anything.
I bought a stereo.
I bought an amazing stereo thatsounded incredible.
That's it.
(08:39):
Because I needed to get out ofdebt, and that's my legacy.
Those are my heroes.
My parents, my grandparents.
They taught me this idea of youknow, let's be careful with
debt.
So that's the first thing, andI talk a lot about that to our
people at our clinic.
So we provide that.
We provide some education andlife skills.
So I think that's one of theother things I think that people
should always understand.
When you're trying to bringpeople into your culture, what
(09:02):
does your culture stand for andcan they engage in it?
And I'm sure everybody has thatconversation and everybody goes
through it.
But financial hygiene we talk alot about that.
So you know, when I graduatedfrom school, I worked hard
because I had that, I had theability.
I was excited, I wanted to helppeople.
I don't know, it's kind of lamemaybe, but that's really why I
(09:22):
wanted to do it and I didn'tneed a lot, I didn't need a
whole lot at the time.
I think today I have groupsthat come out and I have very
weird thoughts maybe about this.
But I think that, being soconnected to these things that
they see this lifestyle, thatmaybe they want to live, but
(09:44):
have you got all your needscovered?
I mean, you have this debt, sothey struggle with that because
they want time.
All right, so they really doneed some time and they feel
like they've earned some timewhere I never thought in those
terms, I never saw in my when Icame out in the world, time
wasn't an asset to me.
I didn't view it as that.
(10:05):
So I think they're moresophisticated in understanding
that time is an asset.
So they need time, they want agreat living so that they can
have some of these things, and Ithink that that's where the
lines don't shift.
So I might have said I'm goingto work harder and I'm going to
do everything possible and Idon't need time.
(10:27):
I don't, you know, I don't needthat balance right now because
I know that I'll get it on theother side, as long as I kind of
stay true to my plan.
And that's again paying off mydebt as fast as I could and
feeling like I could.
I think that's another thingthat really gets into this is
that sometimes we talk to peopleand I don't know if it's
because, you know, we had thepandemic.
(10:48):
It stunted maybe some growth anddevelopment, but there's like
this almost feeling that it willnever happen for them, like I
can't get there, I can't pay offall this debt, I can't work
that hard, I'm stuck, I'm lost.
So I kind of see that as well,and when I came out of school it
(11:09):
was like the world is youroyster, go get it.
Everything that you want inthis world is attainable and it
doesn't matter what it is.
If you want to be a stafftherapist, if you want to work,
you know, whatever it is.
If you want to own a business.
I mean, there were no limitsand by no means did I think that
, whatever choices and decisionsI had previously made, that I
couldn't play my way out of them.
(11:29):
So I kind of feel like that'ssomething else I get from some
of our younger folks.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Yeah, mark, I love that you're talking about this,
because I get a strong sensethat you know I love that we
started this like with this boldstatement of like a different
work ethic.
That's not the case.
I think I love that you talkedabout value and like what they
value and how their experienceshave shaped it differently from
ours.
And and the big problem isn'tthat the problem is the debt,
(11:57):
it's the focus on the money thatthey have to have, because they
have taken so muchridiculousness around that to
get to the point where we were,with much less debt, with way
more opportunity so that when Ihear.
When I hear owners talk aboutthis next generation being lazy,
I get really defensive.
Yeah, yeah, they are actuallymore passionate because they
(12:19):
wouldn't have signed up for thisif they weren't.
And there is this other thingthat you hit upon that I agree,
which is that, like there's adifferent value in terms of time
where people are legitimatelywanting to have.
You know, this whole thingabout um p is not wanting to
work full time.
That's a real common thing thatwe're seeing.
A lot of people are coming outof school saying I just want to
work 20 hours a week and theowners are like well, how are
(12:41):
you paying your bills?
And we don't.
We still don't know the answerto that but, they're valuing
time and flexibility aboveanything else, possibly for what
you said, which is that they'vegot this money thing that's
overhanging them to the pointwhere they can never get out
from underneath it, so theymight as well enjoy life while
it is.
And then, yes, they have cellphones which are promoting
lifestyles of like.
If you're not this, you'retrash kind of kind of right.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Yeah, I mean, there's so much it's a lot of noise.
It's a lot of noise.
I think there's there's farmore noise in the background
than we've ever had in our lives.
It's just there's so much gloomand doom and I'm trying to show
(13:29):
definitive pathways withmultiple tools and get them to
understand that you have needs.
Let's help you get those needsout of the way.
And what are the tools that Ican give you that will help you
be successful to gain thoseneeds?
So, as a business owner, I haveto be more dynamic than I ever
(13:51):
thought I could be and I have toprovide those types of
opportunities.
Right, and so let me circleback to this, because I did.
(14:17):
Okay, I really need to be amaster clinician.
So I went and studied with NIOPTand went through their whole
track and did everything withthem and along the way, met some
great people.
I mean, we could tell somestories.
I've met the rock stars, somegreat people.
I mean I we could tell somestories.
I've met the rock stars ofphysical therapy and, and none
of the.
I doubt your audience will knowmany of them, but anyways, so I
(14:39):
did that.
So if I could do it all overagain, it's what I'm trying to
teach the graduates that I'mdealing with, or and they don't
have to be graduates it could bea five-year season physical
therapist.
That is asking okay, what do Iwant to do with the next?
I'm trying to offer them acareer, not just a job, and what
I mean by that is to have theexperience that I did.
(15:00):
To some extent, they're allunique, but I would definitely
become a.
I would at least be offeringand I do offer I will help you
become a master clinician first.
I think if you do that, youhave set the table to be able to
understand everything else youneed in your business, because
you'll understand how to treat apatient, and that's invaluable
(15:23):
because you can attack everyproblem in your business, the
way that you attack a patient Ifyou treat your business-.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
I know the problem.
The patient has business.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
the way that you attack a patient If you treat
your business if you attack yourevery problem, the way you
attack a patient, the way thatwe were trained to do an
evaluation.
They go hand in hand.
And so then it doesn't becomeintimidating to say, okay, I'm
going to run a business now, orI want to run a business Because
I think that if you're in thedebt that you are today and
(15:53):
you're a new graduate and you'regoing, how on earth am I ever
going to get out of this?
Well, I would say you have afew choices, and life is about
choices.
Bottom line you made the choiceto go to that school, you made
the choice to take that debt.
Let's own that, okay, let's notshy away from it.
No-transcript.
(16:42):
Know, dad, I'm learning thesethings and so I'm.
She's a little bit of my testsubject, right, because she's in
that, that age group, but let'sreally find out what is?
What is your?
Where do you want to be?
Okay, you want to be debt freein 10 years.
You want to be debt free ineight years?
Perfect.
But what are you willing to doto do that?
Because I will tell you, in myopinion, one of the greatest
(17:03):
gifts that you can be in thisworld, I don't care what your,
your field of study is to bedebt free.
That's freedom.
So I think that we need tostart talking about that.
But if that's not what theirgoal is, they say, okay, look,
I've got a 12-year window,perfect.
Well, let's look at what are theoptions on the table to do that
(17:23):
, because obviously you have askill set that allows you to get
that.
But you cannot just look atthis as my whole life goal is to
pay off debt in 12 years.
It also should be what kind ofclinician am I going to be?
What kind of experiences am Igoing to garner?
Because and I'm sure somebodyhas said this out there money is
(17:48):
not happiness.
Money is choices.
Money is just choices.
It's not happiness.
It has nothing to do withhappiness.
And, by the way, you want toget happy, lean into gratitude.
Gratitude is where happinessbegins.
Money gives you choices.
Gratitude makes you happy.
This is not a PT.
You know mobilization technique.
This is something that's a lifeskill that I think you've got
(18:14):
to be engaged in these kind ofconversations with your people
to retain and to recruit, butalso to set a place where you
want to work.
I love that.
If I can jump in, please do,because I'll keep going unless
you do.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Yeah, I love it and please do, because I'll keep
going unless you do.
Yeah, I love it, because what Ihear in this is this idea of
like, because we started withthe initial problems that we see
and a lot of the listeners arejust like, of course.
The second, I think the shiftwas the mindset, because when we
start thinking of what it'slike to be them, versus just say
that they're lazy, it's not,they're not lazy.
I will tell you, as you and Iboth know they are, the heart
(18:58):
there's, I would argue they'reactually more there's a greater
work ethic just to get to wherethey started than we ever had to
.
But this idea of like there is agap and you're saying, to help
the profession, we should fillthat gap with leadership above
our clinical skills.
You were saying absolutelyabout the way we perceive life.
Let's talk about ourrelationship with money.
Is what you just said Like?
There's these elements ofleadership that we are doing to
help upgrade, and that's whatyou're doing in your current
(19:20):
practice.
So let me ask you, Mark, likein your current practice, as
you're upgrading, as you'reworking with this next
generation of physicaltherapists it is PTs, right.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
PTs and OT ot yeah, so we've got hand therapy, hand
therapy, uh, as an ot specialty,and then we we're an outpatient
orthopedic clinic.
You know a lot of whateverybody else is is trying to
do awesome.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
So when you like what is so you have these life
lessons.
Is it?
Is it organic, meaning likeyou're just constantly looking
for opportunities?
Is there structure where youlike?
Well, every every year, I sitdown and we take them to lunch
and we talk about life.
Tell me about what it lookslike for you to mentor the
leadership of the nextgeneration so that we have a
rising tide and that theprofession is better.
(20:05):
What do you do?
Speaker 2 (20:06):
So, first of all, physical therapy has been so
good to me.
First of all, physical therapyhas been so good to me.
I could not have picked abetter thing for me to do with
my life.
So that gratitude that I haveto the profession makes me want
to give back to the profession,because I want all of us on this
(20:34):
podcast that you talk to yourfriends about is that there is
some real power in what we do inthe medical world, that we,
that we live in this country andI feel like if you aren't
walking out of the house everyday, going, I make a difference.
I know, again that sounds kindof hokey, kind of corny, but we
do, and we do it because we getto spend more time.
There's that time again, wespend more time with our
patients than a lot of differentclinicians do.
So what are you going to dowith that time?
(20:54):
So back to your originalquestion, though, besides just
being so grateful for what wehave and what we've accomplished
, I'm putting together astructured mentorship program
with everybody in my clinic, notjust new grads.
I have a couple of therapists.
I have a therapist that's beenwith me 17 years.
I have another therapist that'sbeen with me 20 years.
(21:15):
So what I've decided to do inmy clinic is I'm mentoring on
all levels.
So my management team, wementor on the business side and
that's been great for me,because I didn't go to business
school but I ran a business for23 years, so I better know a few
things.
It just doesn't happen and youknow we've made some great
(21:38):
decisions and we made some notso great decisions.
So that mentorship has beengreat.
And then when we brought in ournew graduates, this new group,
we have put together a definedpackage and I mean and that's
what was offered to them to comework for us, I said you know
what?
You don't have to come to workfor me and be 20 year veteran,
17 year veteran, come work forme for three years.
(21:59):
And here's my deal and here'swhat I'm offering I will make
you a master clinician in threeyears and I will make sure that
you are versed in financialhygiene.
Make sure that you are versedin financial hygiene, in how.
How do you really find moretime If and again, I'm not
(22:20):
butting into their personallives, it's as much as they want
to offer to me to help themwith, but all those things that
seem to get in the way of themkind of I don't know having the
fullness that they want.
We're going to have a formalprogram that we do.
That is part of the mentorship.
(22:42):
The very first and this is kindof fun and I really like this
the first lesson that we teachin the mentorship program to
this new grad group is emotionalintelligence.
So they have to read emotionalintelligence in the very first
part of your mentorship.
That's the first thing, becauseyou and I both have read the
(23:02):
book that both says and we allknow this that the level of
success that you will attain inlife has nothing to do with your
degrees and what's after yourname.
It's your level of emotionalintelligence.
That's it.
So that's the first gift wegive them, that the very first
day, and I've given that toeverybody else in the clinic on
top of it.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
How's it going to seem Like you know back on it?
Does it change their lives?
Is it like?
What does that look like?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
It really depends on what they're going to do in
terms of how they use it.
So I've got that.
I've had some people that arelike, wow, that's powerful,
never thought of it that way.
I have others that are like,it's nice, I'll think about that
.
It really is, and we don'tforce feed anything.
But it's really your level ofhow you want to interact with it
(23:54):
.
But we've had, in my opinion,we've had great results, but not
only from our clinical staff,but from our back office staff
and just understanding again theculture that you are evolving
into, and then this gives them away to engage.
You can have the world'sgreatest culture in the world.
I learned this the hard way.
You could have the absoluteflipping great culture, but if
(24:20):
your staff won't engage in it,you've done a lot of work for
nothing.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
So that's why I start with emotional intelligence.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
And that's why.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Yep, that's a cultural piece for you,
absolutely.
And I'm guessing, so you'resaying it cultural piece for you
You're talking about.
I'm guessing, so you're sayingit depends on the person how
they receive it.
What's some of the feedbackyou've had after they've gotten
into it?
Speaker 2 (24:40):
So the great thing is and I forget the name of the
author, it's the book title.
Right on top is EmotionalIntelligence.
I'm sure you've read it.
And then they've got a testright.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
So you can go take this test and actually test.
For anyone who's listening, yes, please, it's an essential
because it talks about, like,where you have your gaps in
there.
It helps you identify youractual gaps in emotional
intelligence.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
It's a game-changing book.
So they take the test and thenyou know.
Obviously the way that it worksis you know, you take the test,
read the book, work on some ofthe activities and then retest.
That's the fun part.
And again I kind of put it onthem to say, look, in the next
six months I want you to retest.
But then I'll bring it up justlike in passing hey, did you
(25:28):
retest?
Yeah, did it look any different?
Yeah, it looked a lot different.
And I mean some people are verywilling to share that with you
because it's such a I think thatpiece it's very personal
journey for people because youknow, when I took it I went man,
I'm the most emotionallyintelligent cat there is.
I own a business.
I'll talk to the guy on thestreet there's, you're never a
(25:49):
stranger if I'm in the room.
But I took it and went whoa,there's some things that I could
get better at.
And that's what it is right.
It's getting better.
We'll never be perfect, but toget better.
So that's the first thing we dowith our mentorship program is
we talk about emotionalintelligence and then we can
reference that in every programwe put in every tough moment.
(26:12):
That has nothing to do withclinical decision making, just
the interaction.
You know we have better problemsolving abilities when we bring
a new program on or we askpeople to do new things and
change, because change is thehardest thing know in any
situation, and so we think ifwe've at least primed them with
(26:34):
this new weapon, we can have abetter outcome.
So, and again it's.
It's not perfect.
I and I certainly do not meanto put out there that we've
developed utopia in my clinic,because we have just as many
problems as you do but but wehave tools to really solve those
problems as they come and welearn from them every time.
(26:57):
So we have got a formal way toteach, and that's what I'm doing
.
I'm heading up the mentorshipprogram.
Give me three years and we willget you in a place where you can
see a real path to whatever itis that you want to do in this
field.
Now, again, I need some buy-infrom you, though, so it may be a
(27:22):
lot of work if this is yourtime frame, but let's be clear
about that.
When we hire somebody, we tellthem you want to command the
salary.
Well then, this is the amountof work I need for all of us to
work symbiotically and I thinkthose are great conversations to
have.
In terms of expectations, yeah,I think that.
(27:42):
I think that that's a you know,if you're coming in commanding
this huge salary, great Wellthis is what I'm going to have
to get there.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
And, mark, I'll tell you.
I'm going to talk to the rockstars for a second, because,
rock stars, what I like aboutwhat Mark is saying at this
point is if you're listening isthat we could do a much better
job of telling the person we'rehiring what the outcome is and
when to expect it.
(28:19):
So, rock stars, as owners andleaders, we already understand
this concept of when a patientcomes into the clinic and we're
talking to them and they'relooking to us to help them and
we say there's a difference inbuy-in when we say, well, let's
treat you for two to three timesa week for three to four weeks,
and after a month, let's take alook Versus Susan, I want you
(28:41):
coming three times a week Infour weeks.
We will resolve this.
If by any chance it's notresolved, we'll understand what
we're missing and make a newplan.
So, as owners, when we'rehiring, I love how Mark's
talking about culture to begin,and this thing called the end in
mind.
What did Mark say In three years, if you give me and he's really
(29:04):
clear on the agreement here'swhat I expect from you and this
is the salary you want, buthere's what the path looks like.
The number one reason why peopleleave a company is because they
don't see a future in it, andso if we can create that future
in it and have markable outcomes, in three years you will be
able to pay down your debt, feelin charge of your career, have
(29:25):
work-life balance.
And, by the way, it's not justclinical skills you're going to
get.
You've got to get emotionalintelligence, you've got to get
this other thing calledleadership development, and Mark
is competing in a world of onewhen he recruits, so his problem
then becomes messaging.
Maybe you've got that mastered,mark, but, like most people,
(29:47):
where they really, where peoplestruggle, they're like where do
I begin?
It's like begin with the offer,start with the end in mind of
who you want, yes, and thenbuild towards that person with
an offer and then, when you'reas far along as mark is, see
mark, I'm willing to bet youstruggle with retention a lot
less than others, and where wecould all improve is on that
thing called messaging of likehow do we get people who've
(30:10):
never met Mark or know any ofhis team members?
to know about this product Causeit's not a fit for all, but for
the people it is.
They're going to move mountains, to move to New Mexico to go
work for him, so I'm surerecruit so retention, I'm
guessing is is a much bettersituation.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
The average therapist tell me about retention.
It's great, you know.
Uh, we, last year we had a um.
We, we had two people that wegot from a school in Arizona and
they came out and, um, one ofthem is still with me.
We did, we, within about ninemonths, a person left.
Uh, she was a new grad, uh, 24years old, and her exact thing.
(30:50):
And so for us, what we deal,deal with this is where we're
located, where we're about ahundred thousand in terms of a
city.
We're not, we're not the hotbedof, you know, a real young
generation in our town.
We're a retirement city really.
Yeah, people are going to NewMexico when they're younger.
Yeah, a lot of people will goto school here and leave New
Mexico, and I did, and I want tocircle back to that because
(31:12):
there's a point to that as well.
But anyways, so she came, shewas great, she bought in, she
wanted the mentorship.
She met somebody who was inPhoenix and decided to move to
Phoenix to be closer to him.
But on her exit and I'm sureeverybody does that, especially
on the people that leave, thatyou don't have to get, I mean
(31:33):
maybe say fire the people thatleave, like in this situation,
boy, we scrubbed as much as wecould to get as much information
from her.
What are we doing right?
What can we do better?
How did we recruit you?
Did you like the way yourecruited, did we?
I mean, were we competitive?
Blah, blah, blah blah.
You can get so much information.
And she said you know what,mark, if you had a Del Valle in
(31:56):
Phoenix, I'd be there Mondaymorning.
She goes I just need to becloser to this person that she
wants to get close to.
So that's the kind of things wecompete with.
But, like I told you, we've got20 years, 17 years.
I've got one employee.
My chief operating officer hasbeen with us for 23 years, been
(32:17):
here since the inception of thecompany.
So there are things that youcan't put on paper, that you
can't put in a metric, that aregoing to get buy-in and
retention, but you've got to dothem and they're going to be
different for everybody.
It has to resonate with yourvalues first, and you need to
(32:37):
know what that is.
I would say, when we interviewfolks, we have a very funny not
funny way of interviewing, butwe interview.
But when they get to me and I'mthe last person I asked them
three questions.
I don't ask them to resolveproblems, or did you?
You know what's your greateststrength?
I asked him three questions.
I said today we're going totalk about three things your
story, your value and yourvision.
(32:58):
Tell me what your story is,tell me what your values are,
tell me what your vision is, andif those resonate with what
mine are, then we might be ableto be Navy SEALs of physical
therapy together and then we getexcited and we start having fun
immediately.
So that's how we approach thisa little bit different, but you
(33:18):
know, going back to what we werewith, experience, pardon me,
just figured out the line ofquestioning on your own Cause.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
I'll tell you directly.
I hired coaches when I couldn'thire years ago and I literally
ask those same three questionsin a different way.
When I have a six questioninterview, um, when I was hiring
for 26 locations and that wasmy superpower, literally that
was, those were three of my sixlocations.
Uh, questions was like thisidea of like purpose being
(33:46):
history, values, present, vision, future, and I love how you get
that.
Did you figure that out on yourown?
Speaker 2 (33:52):
yeah, I mean it's, it's pretty pretty, pretty
simple, but and you know I'mgonna stop this, I'm gonna, I'm
gonna get companies for years.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
It is not that simple for people to see.
So I want people rock stars tolisten to what he did.
As a side note, mark, because Iwant to get to this story about
how you left and came back isthis idea that we started the
episode talking about theproblems of physical therapy?
This episode is all about howto build a brighter future for
the profession through ourpractice.
So what we're learning is itcomes back to leadership,
(34:22):
because there's a gap that weidentify between the students
and the current generation.
Then you bridge it by buildingtheir future, with them in mind,
around the values of thecompany, but is able to provide
a distinct product and a pathfor their students to become
(34:49):
powerful, independent leaders.
That's how we save theprofession.
That's how we rise the tideacross the board.
So I think it's cool because youare a living example of that
piece.
I'm sure you have your problems, like you said, but you have
people who are with you for 20some odd years, mark.
That tells me that you are in aposition of having absolute
(35:12):
mastery of learning how to buildleaders and that if we could do
a better job of across the yeah, I mean it doesn't solve
recruiting, it doesn't solvemarketing messaging, it doesn't
solve a few other issues.
It doesn't solve reimbursementyet.
But I would even argue overtime that would eventually solve
those other problems.
Can we jump a little bit?
I'd like to hear the succinctas possible.
So I graduated from UNMUniversity of New Mexico in 1997
(35:33):
.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
My first job was in Las Cruces because I needed the
same thing that everybody elsedid.
I needed a job and it was agood opportunity.
So I came here instead ofstaying in Albuquerque, which
was going to be a lot harder,but it really fit a lot of the
pieces of what I wanted.
After about a year and a half Igot laid off, basically.
(36:10):
But the company I worked for,which was Novocare, they also
staffed a hospital here in town,so they just pushed me into the
hospital and I was not going towork in a hospital.
So I had resumes out all overthe place and within about a
week in the hospital, two weeks,they sent me to Santa Fe here
in New Mexico to run a clinicfor them in Santa Fe.
It was an outpatient officethere, so it was a little bump
(36:30):
in salary.
So and if I told you guys whatmy salaries were back then you
would just go why on earth wouldyou do this?
So I went to Santa Fe, got alittle bump there and was there
for about nine months and then Iended up in Western New York.
I met a girl, moved out toWestern New York Actually I was
living in Canada but thenWestern New York through another
(36:51):
friend of mine, mike Adessothere's a shout-out to Mike
Adesso Was working for a companyWestern New York Physical and
Occupational Therapy Group, theworst name on the planet and
they brought me in and I tookabout a $25,000 pay cut to work
there and take on twice theresponsibility.
So this is what I want to kindof make the point of.
(37:11):
I took a big pay cut and, yeah,there was a person there that I
(37:32):
was working for.
They were great friends withmany of the pioneers of physical
therapy.
Dick Earhart would come fromPennsylvania to do con ed
classes because there was not acon ed requirement in New York,
but he would come so he coulddrink beer with his old buddies
and show us a few minutes on aweekend.
Anybody that knows Dick Earharthe's a legend.
I got to ride around in a golfcart with Mike Rogers, who was
(37:54):
Gulf States Physical Therapyback 100 years ago, one of the
first manual therapycertifications.
I didn't even know who thesegiants were, but I got to know
them through this.
I was at an AOPT meeting in 2001when Earl Petman was the
keynote speaker, and if youdon't know who Earl Petman is,
(38:14):
earl Petman is definitely one ofmy heroes.
So I got to listen to EarlPetman.
I'm sitting on a couch withDick Earhart.
Ask Dick, what would you do ifyou were me?
I'm four years out of school, Iwant to become a master
clinician.
And he was talking aboutUniversity of Pittsburgh, where
he was at we're doing this, thatand the other.
And he stopped cold and saidforget that, go learn from that
(38:35):
guy.
So I got the world's greatestadvice from some of the greatest
physical therapists in ourorbit and I got in touch.
I took every one of my NIOPTcourses with Earl Petman.
What a joy.
So I got a career and had I nottaken that measly $20,000 pay
(38:58):
cut and I say measly now?
At the time it was, oh my gosh,it was awful.
But had I not done that, Iwould not have had part of the
life I have today.
So when you're looking atoffers and you're looking at the
money and you're going, man, Igot to make the most money
possible.
This is why we're talking aboutthese things right now is what
(39:19):
is that person going to do withyou, and are you going to work
with them or are you going towork for them?
I think that's a hugedistinction between your next
job.
Are you working for somebody orare you working with somebody?
And if you don't know thedifference, then you have some
questions to ask, becauseeverybody that works in my
(39:41):
clinic works with me and I workwith them and, like I said, you
want to have these thingsfigured out before you even get
into that negotiation.
In that, yes, you're going tomake money and you've got to
make some money.
I get that.
You have needs and we've got toget those needs taken out of
the way.
But you also have a life, andthis goes back to what I was
(40:04):
talking about earlier.
You can't just look and say,okay, because I'm going to help
you do that.
12 years, get rid of yourstudent debt.
This is what you do.
Boom, we've got it.
But what kind of person are yougoing to become?
From point A to point B?
What kind of clinician?
What are you going to have?
Because the other gap thatthese kids don't have again I
said kids that these youngprofessionals don't have when
(40:24):
they leave school is they don'thave the level of experience
treating a patient.
There's going to be someanxiety when somebody walks in
and they've never seen thediagnoses.
In three years, you can be amaster clinician and you will
not have that level of anxietyany longer with what we're going
to teach you.
So those are the kinds ofthings that I think, as a
(40:45):
student or a new grad or afive-year grad for that matter
those are the kinds of thingsthat I think you should want to
hear.
If you're on this arc and youhaven't got to a point in life
where you can say my life isabout wants now and it's no
longer about needs, there is anarc that you have to go on.
And then, in order to reallymake your time an asset, that's
(41:07):
the arc you have to go on,because at some point that time
is going to be more valuablethan money and the only way you
turn your time more valuablethan money is you got to get all
those needs taken care of.
And let's have thatconversation and let's be clear
about it and let's not pussyfootaround it.
And for every owner out therethat wants to play the nuclear
arms race of how much we paythese kids that are coming out
(41:29):
of school, think about thatEvery single time you go.
Well, I guess we could pay them$140,000.
But we got a decrease inMedicare.
And again, if you're a privatepractice, this does not apply to
you.
I understand that.
But if you are in the worldthat I'm in, where we have
third-party reimbursement, weall need to be responsible to
(41:52):
this idea of what are we payingthese people, because it's not
sustainable.
We are going to hit a tippingpoint.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
When we don't honor the income that we're making,
we're perpetuating the problemAbsolutely.
And when you were talking tothe students directly, mark it
because it was like, yeah,that's cool, I was, you ended up
going there.
But my thought was like this isgreat for owners to hear,
because if we can stop doing thenuclear arms race of competing
because students, when theydon't know, they don't have that
(42:21):
clarity of they're going towork with us and there's an end
in mind and a product for beingthere that goes beyond a skill
set, they end up they we'releaving it to them to go.
Well, you have a lot of debt,so you're going to take this job
for a thousand dollardifference.
Your story.
The big takeaway out of thatwas this idea that, like, what
we want to invest in at a schoolis money is a big part of that,
(42:43):
but, but it's not the biggestpart.
The biggest part is who webecome and who we this is I get.
I mentor students across thecountry.
I speak at universities.
All the time.
The thing I say to them is stopworrying about passing the
boards and start focusing on whoyou should work with, because
when you graduate, the thingthat will matter is the company
you work with and the leadersyou learn from.
(43:04):
If you can get that right,you'll be fine.
You pass the boards.
I said you're all eventuallygoing to pass the boards, even
though you and I both know thatAbsolutely.
It's like you know yeah, passthe boards, worry about it, but
you've got to invest time now tostart figuring that out,
because they pass the boards,they're like everything's going
to be fine.
No, no, this is where thehardship comes in.
(43:24):
So listen, mark, you've beenphenomenal.
I.
I think we've hit a really hardpoint and a very powerful point
that I want to end on, becausewe have completed a cycle of the
fit.
I didn't find the the the mainissue in the industry and we've
really built out this wholebeautiful.
You just unloaded tons of valuearound this thing, around how
(43:45):
we create an experience for ournext generation.
That will serve us in recruiting, by the way, but also build
them to be leaders, to thinkabout profitability, how we as
owners should take a standagainst, just like marginalizing
the business by trying to paymore as our only differentiator,
and how that changes theindustry as a whole.
(44:06):
So, Mark, I would love for acouple of parting questions
before we end.
And number one is there abesides emotional intelligence?
What's another book that yourecommend to?
Speaker 2 (44:18):
people.
The psychology of money, youknow, that's the one that I
think everybody should have thatbook in their library.
I don't care if you are a20-year veteran of this, if
you're a new grad, my daughter.
I'm paying my daughter $100 toread this book and to write me a
two-page summary of this book.
(44:39):
It is very simple.
It's a great read.
It is very simple, it's a greatread and I think that in our
society, people have tounderstand that money does not
equate to happiness.
It gives you choices andoptions and I think there's
nothing wrong with money.
I'm not villainizing, there'snothing.
I mean, make as much money asyou can, but I think the
(45:02):
psychology of money is reallyinteresting.
I think it's a great.
It's such an easy read and youwalk away going.
Man, that's awesome.
And this is what I would havetold somebody when they were 20
years old.
This would be the advice Iwould have given them.
The greatest asset that allthese young people coming out of
school, their greatest assetI'm going to ask you Will, what
do you think the greatest assetof that new graduate walking out
(45:25):
of school?
What is their greatest asset Ifthey're 24 years old?
What's their greatest asset?
Their time.
Their time.
Absolutely, man.
I, like you, Will.
This has been a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
I, like you too, I've had a great time, they have
time.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
So when they're stressed and really worried
about this whole thing, they'reon this journey of they've got
time.
And if you make the rightdecisions, boy.
I wish I had made a lot betterdecisions with my financial
world at those early years,because time is your greatest
asset.
My 20-year-old daughter now,when I ask her what's your
(46:02):
greatest asset, she says Dad,it's my time.
Madison, there you go, Perfect.
What's your next question?
Speaker 1 (46:10):
I want to finish on that one.
I think you hit it so hard,mark.
You were phenomenal.
Thank you so much for being aguest on the show.
Guys, like I said at the intro,go check out his clinic, his
website, go learn about more.
But if they do want to get ahold of you directly, mark, how
do they do?
Speaker 2 (46:23):
that.
I think we have my emailaddress that I gave you.
It's my personal email addressand I give it.
You can blast that.
I spoke at CSM earlier this yearand this is my challenge to
everybody listening.
I spoke at CSM this year to agroup of 100 students and I gave
(46:45):
very similar things.
In my talk I said look, whatI'm giving you that I won't give
anybody else is.
I give you 100% access to myexperience.
You can ask me any question.
I will help you with anything.
I got zero responses and thatwas about six months ago.
And again, I'm not going totell you I know everything, but
(47:06):
if I knew somebody that waswilling to give me advice
without having to subscribe orhave to do something in order to
do I'm going to bombard youremail box with things.
No, I just want to share what Ican to help you be better and
to make our profession better.
That's how much I believe inthis.
So I challenge your audience.
(47:29):
If you have a question, pleaseask and I will tell you.
And if I don't know the answer,I've got great resources.
Can I throw a couple of shoutouts real quick before we leave,
of course, so these are peoplethat are just great in my life
and I feel like I've never had avenue to say great things.
So my buddy Mike Adesso thatgot me my job for Western New
York Physical Therapy.
(47:50):
Mike Steve Allred.
Our buddy, jamie Schreier ourfriend Love that guy.
Practice Freedom If anybodyneeds a little help in your
practice, go look at PracticeFreedom with Jamie Schreier Good
stuff.
Linda John Do you know LindaJohn?
If you don't know Linda John,you need to know Linda John.
How about Eva Norman?
Do you know Eva Norman?
Ira Gorman how about Ira Gotta?
(48:10):
Know Ira?
Drew Contreras at APTA oh mygosh, if you see Drew sitting at
the bar, go sit and have adrink.
The guy's got the best stories.
Smart dude.
If Drew and I are drinking atthe bar together, sit there for
two hours, we will have a ball.
Paul Welk if anybody needs agreat attorney, talk to Paul.
(48:32):
If you don't know Paul, paul isphenomenal, good friend of mine
.
And then I want to say anybodythat knew Phil Teigel, phil
passed this year and he was agiant in our uh pt community in
the legislative side.
We didn't even get to that wedo.
I do a whole other legislativeside to what we do.
I I go to congress a coupletimes a year and all the good
(48:54):
people, if you want to talkabout.
Hey, listen, I'm huge onadvocacy.
I could talk for an hour onadvocacy.
And why so anybody that is nota member of the APTA?
If you don't want to be amember, I respect that, but
email me.
Let's have a conversation andlet's talk about why we're not.
And if you're not, if you'renot giving a little money to the
pack, tell me why and I'll tellyou why it's important that you
(49:17):
do so.
I mean, we could do this allday, will?
You didn't give me enough time,will?
Speaker 1 (49:22):
I had a whole section ready for that.
I won't just have to have youback, Mark.
That's all it means.
Speaker 2 (49:26):
Hey, listen, I really enjoyed today and I really
appreciate what you're doing forthe profession.
Oh, you're so cool and when weget off, when we're finished, I
got something else for you.
Speaker 1 (49:41):
Oh guys, I can't wait to tell you what that is.
So listen, mark, you've beenphenomenal, such a great guest.
Rockstars, take this man's up,take this advice up.
Really, reach out if you haveany questions.
Those people you mentioned arephenomenal and I just reiterate
that Mark is a great place tostart.
If you don't have a network, ifyou have someone like Mark in
your corner, there's nothing youcan't overcome.
So, rockstars, thanks fortuning in to the Willpower
Podcast.
(50:01):
As always, this is WillHumphries, reminding you to lead
with love, live on purpose andnever give up on your freedom.
Until next time.
Thank you so much for takingthe time to listen to today's
episode.
As a thank you, I have a gift.
In today's show notes there's alink for you to join the
Stress-Free PT newsletter.
This is a comedy newsletter foranyone who works in healthcare
(50:23):
and of course, we're going tohave comedy bits.
We're going to haveinspirational stories,
leadership tidbits.
It's going to be a weeklynewsletter just to lighten your
week, to help you do what youlove with more passion.
So click that link below andjoin that newsletter and we'll
see you in our next episode.
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