February 25, 2025 • 44 mins
Innovative Growth and Leadership with Katie Hohman
In this episode, Katie Hohman, CEO of a multi-location physical therapy practice and co-founder of Heno, shares her inspiring journey from clinician to successful entrepreneur. Balancing business leadership with family life, Katie offers practical insights on building a thriving company culture, fostering strategic growth, and maintaining focus in dual roles.
Key Takeaways:
- Learn how Katie transitioned from hands-on practice to leading a growing business empire.
- Explore how an in-house necessity became a market-leading EMR software solution through collaboration and innovation.
- Discover how personal relationships, word-of-mouth, and effective leadership create cohesive and motivated teams.
- Gain insights into expanding businesses without external investments and cultivating a remote culture of growth.
Virtual Rockstars specialize in helping support or replace all non-clinical roles.
Learn how a Virtual Rockstar can help scale your physical therapy practice.
Subscribe here to our completely free Stress-Free PT Newsletter for your weekly dose of joy.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
rock stars.
Today's special guest is katiehoman.
She is the ceo of both aphysical therapy practice in
florida.
As well.
As he know, he know h e n o, anemr software designed for
physical therapists that shedeveloped initially for her own
private practice.
That has expanded into a verypowerful emr that many private
practices are using.
(00:24):
What's cool cool about ourinterview today is that we're
going to be talking to herspecifically about how she made
the transition from clinician toentrepreneur, from entrepreneur
to leader of a team that ranher practice for her so well
that she was able to startanother company in a completely
different industry, which issoftware.
So she's going to talk a littlebit about Hino, where that came
(00:45):
from, and very unique lessonsaround culture and how she's
adapted lessons from her techcompany back to her PT practice
to create this unbelievablethriving business that is
continuing to scale.
Enjoy the show.
So, katie, you're the CEO andfounder of not just an awesome
multi-location physical therapypractice, but you also have, you
(01:07):
know, this industry-leading EMR.
How are you able to balancethose two things and a family?
It just seems absolutely beyondmy imagination.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
You know what's funny is, the family part is the
harder of it Really.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
I guess that makes sense because it's like the most
valuable, most important aspect, sure.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Absolutely, and I have middle school boys.
So what are they doing?
Constant activities and drivinghere and there.
So that's the most challengingpart of it.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
How old are your?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
boys 11 and 13.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Okay, I've got two boys around the same age, so I
understand that.
World, world, it's a lot ofdriving.
Yeah, yep, so you're balancingthat whole thing, but how does
that look every day like?
Is you know?
Because you, you, how much youhave this, how many?
Tell us about your pt practicefirst, because that was that's
what came first.
Was the pt practice right?
Speaker 2 (01:58):
yeah, yeah.
So in 2009 I opened the firstlocation, um, and then we have
three.
Today they're all within like10 miles of each other.
We're kind of like a littlenice little triangle to the west
of Orlando.
Day to day, I try to get toevery office once a week, even
if it's just for a short periodof time, but then things change
(02:19):
right.
Your day could totally go notas planned.
So like this morning I was inone office and this afternoon
I'm in another, Um, but Itypically will work at home two
to three days a week Amazing.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Is that are those?
Are those days more Hinofocused?
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Not necessarily, um, I just find that I have way less
interruptions, um, and I have,you know, a great, a better
setup, like I feel like thesetup and place that I work in
the offices is kind of liketransient.
Like you know, anyone couldjust sit down and plug into the
monitor there, so it's not, Idon't know, not as efficient, I
guess when I'm in the office.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Well, that's amazing.
So talk about leadershipstructure that you currently
have.
So do you have clinicaldirectors?
And then how is Hino structured?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yeah, so in the practice I have clinical
directors.
I don't have one yet for thenew office.
I'm kind of waiting until thatgrows a little bit more to bring
in somebody for that but I haveclinical directors.
I also have a chief operationsofficer who's been with me since
the day I opened in 2009.
And so he oversees the clinicaldirectors and the office
manager, and then it kind oftrickles down from there Amazing
.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
So, okay, I think this is great, because today's
episode, obviously our focus isalways on helping people
understand how to build theirnetwork.
That's the real value.
But then there's theseleadership concepts that we're
constantly addressing, and oneof the things that you've done
that isn't as common is layersof leadership in two different
industries.
Emr is not physical therapy,that's not healthcare.
(03:50):
That is a tech company, that isa different.
So it's like for your, there'san overlap, of course, in how
they serve, but for you, I justwonder how is Hino structured in
terms of leadership?
Speaker 2 (04:01):
First of all, hino, everybody is remote.
At one point we did have anoffice in Orlando, and then this
little thing called COVID.
Everyone seemed really happy tojust stay at home, and so we
eliminated the need for anactual office, unless we're
having meetings or somebodycomes into town.
But we have, let's see, we havea development team, we have a
(04:26):
billing and RCM team, we have acustomer support team, we have
an onboarding team and then wehave like a product development
team.
So we have a manager for eachlevel.
Oh, and sales, of course.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
And is there someone overseeing that, or is that you?
Speaker 2 (04:43):
No, no, no, no.
My husband oversees all ofthose managers.
I'm involved, so I'm in themeetings and you know
brainstorming and that kind ofthing, but I'm not, I don't
oversee the day-to-day.
As far as that goes.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
You know, rockstar is what Katie's talking about here
is one of these products thatcome from after we have a lot
put in place in terms of systemsand structure.
At the end of the day, katiecouldn't do what she's doing if
she didn't have great leaders atevery location and truly I'm
willing to bet that, as busy asyou are, there's a lot of people
with one location who are somuch busier because they're
treating like 80 hours a weekand they're trying to like hire
(05:20):
and all these things and theydon't.
They look at someone like youand they go.
There's no way I'll ever get towhere Katie's at.
So how did you learn?
Like?
What was your path of figuringout leadership concepts and
learning how to bring on theright people and train them up
correctly so that they can takecare of it, so that you can move
on to other things?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Well, I think it is a really difficult transition to
make from being in patient careand you're like I'm generating
revenue.
So not only the factor of like Ilove patients, I love
interacting with people, I love,you know, seeing the difference
from when they walk into, whenthey leave but it's also like
the financial aspect is a hugething for PT, right, because our
(05:58):
margins are pretty, prettytight, because we're not in too
much control of them.
I think that probably startedwith me with really putting
trust and faith into coachesthat I had business coaches and
just getting that perspective oflike.
I know you think in the shortterm you're not gonna.
(06:20):
You know there's not going tobe the money there to be able to
do that, but I, I listened tothem and I was able to.
You know there's not going tobe the money there to be able to
do that, but I listened to themand I was able to, you know,
find people that really couldcarry on processes and
procedures.
You know, treat patients theway I wanted to be treated and
just really run with it.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
That's amazing and you know, especially you know as
you were growing this company.
At what stage did you startthinking about creating Hino?
Speaker 2 (06:45):
tell me about the birth of Hino so I would say
probably a year in to having apractice.
Um, so my husband's a softwaredeveloper.
He's worked for Oracle for 18years.
Uh, he worked with Oracle whenhe was in the Air Force.
Um, he is a genius on computers.
Don't tell me.
I said that.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
We don't want to get Tito too big.
We want to make sure we keep itnice and humble.
I get it.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Yes, yes, but no, I mean just seeing the little
projects he was doing at work, Iwas kind of like, okay, well,
I'm using this and this and thisand I'm paying.
You know, even if it was cheap,even if it was 20 bucks a month
, you know, 30 bucks a month.
The more systems you have, themore expensive that becomes fast
, but not only with the costyou're paying them, but with the
(07:32):
cost of my time and it was justtaking forever.
So I had, you know, I was likewe're using this little rinky
dink thing that costs $20 amonth, that basically sends your
plan of care to the doctors.
Can you write this so thatwe're not having to do this or
manually fax anything?
And so it just kind of morphedinto honey.
This is what I need.
Can you build it?
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Okay, so very interesting.
So he starts building this out.
At what point did you startrecognizing it was a business?
Speaker 2 (08:02):
At conferences.
So going to conferences,recognizing it was a business At
conferences.
So going to conferences,talking with my peers, and that
was always a hot topic.
I mean, this was what 2013?
There wasn't that much outthere at the time, except for
the big guys, and a lot of ourpeers were like, well, what are
you using?
And then we'd tell them andkind of show them and they're
like, well, I want to use that.
And we're like, well, that'swhat we can't.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
I'm just using it.
For us, it's a personalizedsystem we created.
Yeah, interesting.
How many years did you guyshave that internally before you
started to sell it to others?
Speaker 2 (08:34):
So we went to market basically 2017.
So a number of years.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
But I mean, like I said in the beginning, it was
like little, little componentsand then it just kind of built
more and more so then it endedup being able to do everything I
could possibly need.
Wow, that's amazing.
Well, you know, one of thereasons I'm excited to have you
on the call was because I'dheard so much amazing feedback
regarding Hino and what you guysare doing.
But I think there's so much tobe said about the leadership
journey that you've been on,because there's a lot that has
(09:03):
had to happen in your world inorder for you to start Hino, and
it's interesting because youstill have your PT practice.
I'm guessing at some pointsomeone probably pushed on you
to be like, why don't you sellthat and just focus on Hino and
all these things?
So what has led to yourdecision to grow these two
separate businesses side by side?
Speaker 2 (09:21):
I think there's a few different things.
So, first of all, I love mystaff here.
Like, honestly, I could work athome five days a week and get,
just you know, be as effectivewith being able to run and
manage things at the clinics.
But I like seeing them like.
I like interacting witheverybody is.
It's just a lot of fun, evenwhen you have turnover and your
(09:42):
staff changes.
As stressful as that is as anowner, I still, you know, I
still I love the camaraderie andthe culture that we've built.
So that's that kind of burns mehere.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
So amazing the people you know.
When I sold, I had fivelocations at one point and I
sold my practice, katie it wassuch a surprise to me that the
thing I missed the most was thatamazing dream team that finally
came together and that cameafter years of not knowing how
to be a leader or hiring thewrong people.
So when I finally got to thatpoint, it was such an amazing
thing that I understand it.
I've talked to many people whosold their businesses.
(10:15):
Once you get to that dream team, there's a real argument to
never selling ever.
Because, at the end of the day,your daily activities are based
on how you feel and your joy iscomprised of how you feel
around the people you're with.
So if you have great peoplethat you love and they love you
and you're out there helpingeach other grow I mean, unless
(10:37):
you're selling for a billiondollars even then people like
sell that and they go miserablebecause they don't get that
human interaction driving apurpose, right, I think that's
really.
That's really neat.
So what is it?
How did you find your amazingteam Like?
What was it that happened inyour world to build this dream
team over at your and what'syour PT practice called Home and
rehab and sports therapy Easyto remember.
(10:57):
Okay, so home and rehab.
So so rehab.
So yeah, how did you find thesewonderful people?
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Um, I would say the majority of our therapists are
people we've known, Um, soeither they were students in our
practice, um did rotations withus, or they actually one of
them, our clinic manager, is thehusband of a student that we
had, so a lot of it has beenword of mouth lately, which has
(11:23):
been awesome.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Oh, that's really cool, this word of mouth.
Well so again, it sounds likethe way that you handle these
two separate companies is byhaving leadership established in
both.
Is there anything else youwould tell people about tips or
tricks that have helped youmanage this much on your plate?
Is there anything else that youleverage?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Well, certainly having a leadership team.
I'm delegating.
We have leadership meetingsevery single week for all the
locations and I sit in most ofthem, but I am not really an
active participant.
I let them collaborate, I letthem go over the agenda.
They're doing everything and Ilean on them to be able to do
(12:09):
that.
I feel like it gives them moreauthority, autonomy, and I think
the biggest thing is you.
You have to not be afraid thatthey're going to make a mistake
or not do something that youwould do if it was you running
it.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Yeah, I think that's a big reason why most people
don't end up developing leadersis they are terrified that
they're not going to do it theway that they're going to do,
the way that an owner would doit, or that they would make a
huge mistake.
How have you confronted themoments when people do make
mistakes?
What does that look like, katie, when you're managing or
(12:44):
leading a leader?
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Well, I mean, I think to some extent you set up
guardrails to begin with, right,so it's not just a total
free-for-all, but you know, asmuch feedback as you feel like
they might need to get somethingdone, yes, and if a mistake is
made or something happens, thatisn't what you're hoping the
(13:07):
outcome would be.
You know, you sit down.
You have to be honest with them.
They want to know that too.
I mean, I feel like everysuccess that I've had in
business is because you knowwell, on the coattails of
failures, that I've had right.
You make a mistake, you learnfrom it, you grow and then the
next time you do it a lot better.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
I love the guardrail thing Like you don't just, it's
like a free for all.
You help determine guardrailsin some way.
I had a coach mentor of mine.
He was running this hospitalgroup in Arizona so very large
company and he had a very keyleader make a mistake that cost
him over a million dollars.
And he told me I'll neverforget this.
He said I pulled the leaderaside, put my arm around him and
(13:50):
I said you are worth everydollar of that loss because I
know you are going to learn fromthat and do so much better with
it.
And I remember thinking, Iremember asking him I said no,
come on, how come?
That wasn't a moment where youhow do you know between that and
firing him?
You know, because at a certainpoint, like people can obviously
(14:11):
not be a good fit if they'recosting you a lot of money.
And he said well, he goes.
This was a guy that I alreadyknew was really good in a lot of
areas.
He'd already proven himself inmultiple ways.
This was the project I put himon was a growth project and it
was me learning how to lead himin that project and he did the
best he could with what he had.
He goes.
That was the difference, is theeffort.
I love that you have such anurturing culture in your
(14:32):
company where you're lettingleaders make mistakes in order
to learn.
I'm guessing that must helpcreate trust in your
organization as well.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Oh, 100%.
I mean, if you take a step backand you think about it, you
hire a PT.
You're not sitting in everyeval and every treatment and
micromanaging how they'retreating a patient.
They're going to make mistakeswith that patient too,
especially if you hire a newgrad.
They have to figure out theirflow.
They have to figure out how toresonate with so many different
personalities of patients.
(15:02):
They may cost you a fewpatients, but are you going to
fire them because of it?
No, I mean, ideally you'regoing to go in and sit down with
them and be like look, this isthe feedback I got from this
patient.
Let's make this into a learningexperience here and let's try
to avoid that from happeningagain.
What can we do to?
Speaker 1 (15:19):
prevent that?
Yes, and I would say I lovethat you have that open
discussion and dialogue.
It sounds like that happensafter the connection is made
with your team.
You know, I have a question foryou.
A lot of times, when we developleaders and we have these
strong connections with them,for you, a lot of times when we
develop leaders and we havethese strong connections with
them I've heard this phrase oncefriendly but not friends Does
(15:43):
that ring true for you, or isthat something that is not true
for how you operate with yourleaders?
Are you close personally andyou're good personal friends, or
are there any boundaries?
I'm just curious about whatthat looks like.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
I would say, if anyone on my team needed
something, I would drop whateverI was doing to go help them.
But with that being said, do wehang out on the weekends and
they're you know as close aspeople that I don't work with?
No, they're not, but I would doanything for them and I would
like to think they would do thesame for me if there was.
You know, the time arose.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
I'm so glad to hear you say that you, you and I get
to know each other more too.
Like in my own PT practice andnow with my other company, I
have learned that there is it'snot less meaningful to keep
boundaries in place around theemployee relationships.
I think, if anything, itcreates more of a successful,
safe environment.
Because I used to make themistake, katie, like the first
(16:35):
people I hired, I'm like, well,I've got to be a good boss and
they've all got to be my bestfriends and inherently
everyone's rolling their eyesgoing, yeah, that's a dumb thing
to do, but I honestly didn'tknow anything else.
But what I got right was theconnection part.
What I didn't get right was theboundaries part, and so, like
when my best friends would showup late and I'd be like, hey,
(17:01):
you're late, they'd go, oh,whatever, will you know?
And then we'd all hang out onthe weekends and then
corrections became personal.
So I was surprised when I builtmy leadership team that was
running my PT practice for methe way yours is doing for you,
and we would take a bullet foreach other at least a non-lethal
bullet and we weren't hangingout on the weekends.
It was like 95% of ourdiscussions was work-related,
but that didn't make it lesspersonal to me.
It's just that our personalworlds had a boundary and it
(17:22):
sounds like you guys havenavigated that beautifully.
You guys love and care for eachother and when you're in there,
you're serving the greater goodof what benefits everybody,
which is that company.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Well, you know, I think my background at the
hospital I was in one of thedriving forces to leave and go
out on my own was the terribleculture in the hospital
outpatient that I was in.
I just like I never felt like,okay, I need to be best friends
with my peers, you know.
Okay, we can have a goodconversation and have fun when
(17:53):
we're at work.
I, you know it needs to be anenvironment that I'm happy to be
there.
I don't want to be miserable,of course, but like I don't need
to hang out with you on theweekends, nor do I want to
necessarily, but as long aswe've got each other's back
while we're there and thepatient is at the forefront of
what we're doing, then that'sall that it really needs to be.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Yeah, because there's something so special about
having a relationship you cantrust.
Trust is the foundationalelement of all these stories
that we're telling.
Because you trust that they'regoing to get the job done, even
if they're going to make amistake.
You trust, because of theboundaries you put in place,
that it will be worth it foreveryone.
They trust you to make surethat you are committed to the
(18:32):
future and that you're not goingto sell.
Because you do trust them.
It's a symbiotic relationshipthat is a magic formula for
success.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Clearly, as you've opened your third location, I
wouldn't have opened a thirdlocation if I didn't trust and
know that they had my back,because I physically can't do
that all on my own.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Hey, rock stars, are you having a challenging time
recruiting, retaining ortraining your people?
Then, man, am I excited to tellyou about the Rockstar Summit.
Guys, this is my personal eventthat we are launching on March
1st and 2nd.
It is going to be two full daysof nothing but workshops on how
to solve recruiting, trainingand retaining problems.
(19:15):
It's very heavy on therecruiting side.
We're going to show you whereto find candidates that no one
else is accessing, so that youcan get a leg up in the industry
and grow the business that youdeserve.
So again, that's March 1st and2nd.
Please go towwwrockstar-summitcom to learn
all about the details.
(19:35):
I will be there in personteaching some of the classes,
but we have experts from acrossthe country coming as well.
You do not want to miss it.
I hope to see you there.
Is that your idea?
Did you bring it to them, orwas it more like the group just
discussing ways they could grow,and it came organically.
How did that concept come up tothe team?
Speaker 2 (19:52):
To me.
I kind of got to the point.
This is from feedback from myteam, but it's like at what
point, how do you grow inleadership if you're one clinic,
two clinics, Like what's theopportunity?
I mean, I guess in most smallbusinesses, how far can you go
up the ladder before you'reitching to have more?
(20:13):
And so to me it just seemedlike the natural course was okay
, if we open more offices atsome point I can have a regional
director.
You know like you can createsomething like that for them.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Well, and it's true because I say this in almost
every episode.
So my audience, my rock stars,are rolling their eyes probably,
but, like 88% of people leave acompany because they don't see
a future in it and if they'renot growing then they leave.
It's like there's a smallpercentage of people that are
very content making the sameamount of money doing the same
kind of job, with the occasionallifestyle bump in pay.
It takes a very special leaderto understand it's their job to
(20:49):
grow the company so that there'sopportunity for their team
members to grow into, which ishow we build retention.
So if, like in your case,you're thinking about their
future as a parallel with thecompany's future and as you're
growing the company's futurewith them in mind, everyone wins
.
I mean, stephen Covey is likethe foundational guy around this
thing called a win-winagreement, but I don't think
(21:12):
business owners remember thatit's really their job to spend
time growing their company interms of vision and, frankly, if
they're trading full-time ortrading even a little bit, it's
really hard to bake in the timeto figure all that out.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Yeah Well, and you definitely want employees that
want more, that want to be ableto grow.
You want somebody that'schomping at the bit to have more
responsibility.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Yeah, I love that.
You said that One of the thingsI used to tell people when I was
recruiting that was reallyuseful is I would tell students
in particular, I'm like, hey,listen, we're a growing company,
but not in the way that maybemy competitors are, that are
just too busy.
Like, what I want to do is growaround people, so like, if you
want to be a leader or own yourown practice or be specialized,
(21:55):
that's how I want to grow, andpeople would go, oh, wow, and
I'd say my job is to help youfigure out what you want and
then I'll grow the company withthat, as long as we're committed
to each other's mutualfinancial and personal success.
Right, like that concept of Ionly want to bring people the
people.
Like you said you only want tohire people that want to grow
man, that's the trick rightthere.
(22:15):
Said you only want to hirepeople that want to grow man
that's the trick right there.
Not every PT wants to.
How do you find those?
So word of mouth, you said, isa big way of doing that, but is
there anything else you do tofind those people who are
growth-oriented?
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Well, I mean, yeah, having them in their rotations,
it's better than an interview,right?
You're with them for threemonths, so you get to see
personality, you get to seetheir shortcomings.
It's great, yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
You get to try before you buy.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Yeah.
Other than that, I'm trying tothink most of the other people
we've had have come from onlineads.
I have a pretty In our HRsoftware.
I have a pretty goodapplication that asks things
that are not, you know,necessarily job related.
It's like what's your favoritebook, what's your favorite movie
(23:02):
and why?
I feel like to some extent ithelps me weed through and kind
of see you know.
If someone's just going toanswer like yeah, I don't read,
okay, well, sorry, yeah, on tothe next.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Because you want someone who's a self-starter, a
leader, a leader's going toleaders, learn right, yes, and
so that sounds like you havesome.
What are the other qualifiersfor people to work?
Speaker 2 (23:24):
for you.
If they don't read, they're out.
What else?
I always ask what's one thingthat you have learned in the
last week, and that could beanything from I learned how to
use a jigsaw to how to paint mytoenails.
I don't know whatever.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Yeah right.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
I want to know that they're stretching themselves
and growing, whether that issomething socially or you know
whatever.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Oh, that's cool.
So this really is kind of likea thread that we're pulling on
together in this conversation,is that you look for people
specifically who are looking togrow.
Obviously, rock stars hang outwith rock stars.
In-house referrals are alwaysgreat if they're a great team,
which you have but then youqualify them, especially when
they're coming from online andagain, that's from a software
(24:04):
that you built, or is that likeIndeed?
Speaker 2 (24:07):
I mean, we've been successful with Indeed in the
past but I feel like lately it'skind of meh.
But I feel like lately it'skind of meh.
But the software company thatwe use has a whole I don't know
recruiting aspect to it, whereit posts to all different
platforms.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Monster Indeed all the above, yeah, yeah.
Can you promote them Like justbecause I know a lot of people
listening are like who is that?
Speaker 2 (24:33):
It's Gusto.
I think a lot of people usethat.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
So I use Gusto for two of my companies and I love
it.
So we get nothing out of sayingthat team.
So if you're looking for areally robust payroll software,
I love Gusto.
I think it's phenomenal.
I have never used theirrecruiting functions, though.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
You know it's funny.
I posted I just wanted to gaugefor the new office PTA, um, to
see what you know, what was outin that area, and so I posted on
Indeed for a little while.
Got nothing, um pay paying forit.
And then I posted it throughGusto and it goes.
Part of it is goes to Indeed.
But I did it completely freeand I got three applicants and
(25:11):
I'm like what You're kidding me.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Oh my gosh.
So everyone who's listening tothis, who's using Gusto, start
using it for your recruitingsoftware.
Because when you said I getsome leads from posting as you
know, on the side I do this likecoaching company that helps PTs
hire and I always tell themlisten, you've got to have a
really powerful job ad becauseit's kind of a summary for
everything that you're doing inthe job and people are going to
reference it, but it's not agood lead generator.
(25:36):
But when you said, yeah, I getsome leads for my job ad, I'm
like whoa, so I've never workedwith Gusto before.
That's a really hot lead.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Thank you for sharing that and it makes it easy.
So when you're going you canset certain people.
So like the clinical directorfor the office we're hiring will
be on the hiring team, so youcan put certain people in as the
hiring team.
They see when resumes arecoming through, they can go in,
they can make notes, they can ifthat person is hired you can
(26:06):
like move them up in the processas they're progressing.
So it just kind of streamlinesit.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Yeah, I've been very happy with it and they're very
affordable as well.
I guess I mean, my goodness,for you to get those three leads
of the PTAs when you've gotnothing from Indeed.
Indeed for me, has been thegold standard.
Linkedin's starting to takeover a lot of that area as well,
but I wonder where Gusto gotthat, If that was like LinkedIn
or some other software.
But it doesn, because Gustodoes it all so you don't have to
think about it.
(26:33):
Yeah, oh my gosh.
So how does this all translateover into the?
I like kind of going from, likeyou know, home and physical
therapy and rehab over to theHino side of things?
So what has that journey beenlike?
Is it similar in terms offinding people?
Do you ask the same questions?
Is like, what does that looklike in terms of finding leaders
(26:53):
and talent and growing them inthere?
How are they similar and how isthat different from home and
physical therapy?
Speaker 2 (26:58):
We obviously have a bigger pool to be able to pull
from, since the company is fullyremote.
I'm not trying to find somebodyin central Florida to come into
an office, so that certainlychanges it.
I feel like you can get thebest of the best because they
may live in Phoenix, arizona,even though the rest of their
(27:22):
team lives in Texas.
I mean it's that's definitelyan advantage.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
I'm sure, and so how many employees do you guys have
at Hino?
Speaker 2 (27:34):
50, maybe.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Amazing, so you're probably all over the country.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Oh yeah, yeah, we're like 20 states or something like
that.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
And so how do you develop culture in that
environment when you have 50people across the country?
How does culture get grown wheneveryone doesn't't like you go
into the office for a reason.
You go in there even thoughit's less convenient, because
you get fed by the culture andyou feed into the culture.
How do you do that remotely?
Speaker 2 (28:03):
yeah, that's.
That is a challenge.
So I, being a software company,I kind of lean to other
software companies to fill thegaps of things that we need.
And I met these, these twogreat guys, in Salt Lake City
and they have a little companycompany called Nectar.
Have you heard?
Speaker 1 (28:21):
of that.
I have heard of Nectar.
If, guys and you, by the way,you don't have to have a
software company for Nectar, youcould use Nectar inside a
service company like your PTpractice, right?
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
I use it for both actually.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
You do.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
We started using it for Hino and I was like this is
awesome.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Yes, I've never used it myself, but I almost did once
.
I don't know why I didn't, butmy friends who use it love
Nectar, like straight up love it.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
So I love it as an owner, because I don't know
what's going on with everybodyand all the great things that
the team is doing, and sosomeone will.
Well, let me give you abreakdown.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yeah, talk about it, yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
You put in all your core values, your mission
statement, all of that, and then, basically, employees can go on
the platform and give shoutouts to other team members as it
pertains to a core value.
So far, let's say, our corevalue is customer focus.
So Amy can go out and say hey,tina, thank you so much for
(29:15):
jumping on that call at the lastminute to solve the issue with
blah blah, blah blah.
I'm going to give you 20 Nectarpoints.
They can attach cute emojis andgifts and all that stuff.
So it makes it fun.
And then the employees can takethose points and they can buy
pretty much anything on Amazon.
They can get gift cards, theycan donate it to a charity, they
(29:38):
can get a company swag and theyuse all those points for that.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
That is so cool, so they get to choose what they
want, and it becomes like itreminds me of a kid.
I remember going to the schoolfair and like running around and
like generating tokens byparticipating in different
things and then using thosetokens to go buy books or
stuffed animals and that kind ofstuff and it was cool about it,
was that like it was like itwas it gamified it for me and it
(30:04):
sounds like that it does foryour team.
It sounds like it gamifies itfor them.
And then they have all thislike, oh, what am I going to buy
?
They have all these things.
Every minute they spend kind ofresearching on Amazon or
looking at company swag is asecond that they're enjoying
being a part of your team.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
It sounds like, yeah, for sure, and I do a few other
things.
So during our onboarding fornew hires I have have you ever
gotten a sheet when your kidgoes to like elementary school
and it's like my teacher'sfavorite things and it's like my
favorite scent is lavender, myfavorite color is yellow.
My favorite restaurant is thisright, so you know how to gift
(30:38):
them when you're the parent likeshowing appreciation.
So I have my staff, they allfill out that at the beginning,
so I know their favorite color,I know you know where they like
to eat, what their favoritesnack is, so that that helped a
lot.
And as far as like sending themsomething for their birthday or
for a work anniversary orsomething like that In the
(30:59):
beginning, but then as you get alot of employees it makes it
really challenging to have tolike that doesn't even sound.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
I mean, that'd be a full time job for you to be like
.
Well, today we have two peopleand what are they like?
And I mean that just soundslike a lot of it.
Sounds like that is useful, butas you get bigger, it must be
challenging.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Yes, it is, but I also love that's.
That's kind of how I keepthings so personal with
everybody as well.
So I did set something up onNectar for birthdays and
anniversaries, so they do get,you know, a hundred bucks or
something for their birthday,whatever it is, and so that they
can pick out what they want.
But, like for Christmas thisyear, I sent out customized
(31:39):
blankets with everybody's nameon it in the colors that they
had on their intake.
So that took me like a reallylong time.
But, it just makes me feel goodto be able to send them
something that they appreciate.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
I don't know that is really, really cool.
Um, no, I, I love this.
I, you've got me.
I'm convinced I'm going to goover and sign up for nectar
right now.
I've got you know, as you know,I've got, um, you know, my, my
core team at virtual rockstar,but then I now have hundreds of
virtual assistants now and I'mtrying to create culture and
connection there.
To have something automated isgreat.
The only question I have foryou is, when you do like a
(32:15):
Nectar birthday thing, is thereanything else that goes with it,
like a card or I don't know,like is there a way to
personalize it, because I doworry about it just being too
automated, where it's like $100,boom, happy birthday.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Or is there like somewhere, like a message board,
where people chime in on it, orI mean, it basically goes on
the message board and it willsay you know, happy birthday,
kim.
Here's x number of points to gocelebrate, but you can leave
comments under it, you know.
So it's like a text threadalmost so you can do your pts.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
I can see in the tech world they're always checking
network nectar, but how aboutyour pts?
Are they always on it?
Speaker 2 (32:45):
or yeah.
Yeah, I mean they an app, sothey'll get alerts and stuff
like that too.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Oh, my God.
And plus, they want to be on itbecause they don't know.
Okay, see, I will tell you this.
In my PT practice, I wasshocked that people my age and
even younger didn't even knowhow to check their own email.
Like tech, pts are the leasttech savvy people I've ever met.
Like, we're very hands-on,musculoskeletal focus, so when
it comes to tech, maybe not thebest.
(33:10):
So I was like, the whole timeyou're talking like I just I can
see where in a physical therapypractice where there'd be like
a learning curve for people, butif they're getting bonus on it,
they'll learn it, becausethat's going to be an incredible
incentive for them to want tolearn how to do that.
So then, katie, how do you, howdo you manage like the nectarar
side of things versusproduction bonuses?
(33:30):
I'm sure you do some productionbonuses as well, I don't know.
It seemed to me like therecould be confusion for people
listening when do you use this,when do you use that?
That kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
So Nectar is limited per month.
So each employee gets a certainamount of points that they can
dole out per month, and it's nota lot.
I mean it might be 100 points,which is worth $10.
Oh, I see, so it's not a lot.
I mean you can regulate whatyou want that to be and then
managers get more.
So it's just whatever you setit up to be.
And then as far as productionbonuses and stuff, that's where
(34:07):
my managers are the ones thatare keeping track of all of that
and that's submitted in adifferent way, through payroll.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
That makes a lot of sense.
Production bonuses are forproduction.
Cultural elements are nectar.
Yeah, wow, and then you'restill there.
So no wonder people loveworking at your physical therapy
practice.
That's really cool that youhave all those elements baked in
and all that.
So what's your vision?
I would love to hear like, whatdo you see long term for both
businesses?
Like, what do you see you knowdown the road Any BHAGs that you
(34:40):
have Any ideas of what you wantto create?
Speaker 2 (34:42):
With the clinics, I do want to continue to open.
As long as I have a team that'swanting to be at the helm and
help get things going, then I'lljust continue to open more
locations in areas that areneeded.
As far as the software company,it's so interesting because I
don't feel like we're a standard, typical software company,
(35:06):
because we started out and weran things the way that we knew,
which was opening a practiceright, so we didn't take outside
investment.
We bootstrapped it from thevery beginning and still have to
this day, and so we're verycautious and very methodical
(35:29):
about what we do and how we doit, because it's not somebody
else's money that you're playingwith and you're just
experimenting and trying thingslike no, this is the real deal.
So, as being a practice owner,I'm not going to go spend
$10,000 on some male marketingcampaign if I don't know that
I'm going to see the ROI on it.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Wow, very cool.
So Hino's it sounds like.
The Hino vision is uniquebecause your PT practice is
based on who, not how.
You've got like these greatpeople.
You'll keep opening to givethem opportunities for growth
and that's your motivation whenit comes to Hino.
You want to impact the industry, but you're really firm on not
taking outside money.
You're really firm on beingstrategic in how you scale,
(36:12):
which has to be a littleintimidating at times when you
see different people in thatspace who are taking lots of
money and getting really big andpromoting themselves.
So how do you stand out in thattype of environment?
What are you trusting on atHino?
That's going to continue tohelp you grow in the way that
you have.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Well, I'm in the trenches, just like our
customers are.
So I mean, I think that is abig differentiating factor with
any of our competition.
I know personally the trialsand tribulations that all PT
practice owners go through, andwhat we do at Hino is to try to
streamline and make that stuffautomated and easier and not
(36:55):
logging into different placesand not having these API
connections that fail sometimes,so being able to really be able
to build the product around thecustomer and not an investor
and not somebody else that'stelling you that this is what
needs to happen.
It comes directly from ourclinics and the people that use
(37:16):
it on a regular basis.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Yeah, and I will say this not just because you're on
the show, katie, but I've had anumber of my clients use Hino.
I literally have never heard acomplaint ever, and I think that
comes from the way that you'regrowing.
I think there's plenty of spacefor a lot of different
companies to be out there withwhat Hino does and for a lot of
companies to do very well.
(37:39):
But at the end of the day, Ithink having a loyal fan base is
truly one of the most uniquethings about you guys, because,
again, it's so personalized.
And I think the fact thatyou're I think two things that
are really cool about Hino Ilike is that number one, it was
developed by a PT for your ownpractice and that you know, and
(37:59):
there's other companies that mayhave started maybe one I can
think of that kind of startedthat way that evolved in a
different way.
But what the second piece that'sreally valuable is that you're
not taking outside money andyou're keeping true to that so
that you keep everything superconnected and people love it and
the people I've heard that loveyour software, that I know are
very critical, like they wouldbe the first ones to bash it.
(38:19):
There's no like hesitation.
So I'm excited to see whereHino goes, because in your case
you're not out there likesticking this BHAG going.
We're going to get to 100million and exit.
What you're saying is we aregoing to continue to listen to
our customers and create thisaround them.
It's kind of the way you'redoing your PT practice.
I think your growth strategy islike a concept of who, not how,
(38:42):
what's needed and wanted andbuilding on that.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
What's the benefit of being a practice owner and
hiring more PTs?
Right, so you can make more ofan impact, more of a footprint
in your community, help morepatients?
Right?
And so that's how I look at.
Hino is like, okay, we can workwith other owners who have
other therapists and we're ableto spread our reach to you know,
make the country healthier andmore active and living their
(39:09):
best life.
That's how I look at that,because I know a lot of people,
I think, struggle with the whole.
How do you just step away frompatient care if you really love
what you do?
And that's why, to me, I canmake more of a difference that
way.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
Yeah, it's a mindset thing.
I remember telling my coach howam I going to break it to my
team that I'm stepping out ofpatient care?
And he said Will, you're notgoing to say that.
What you're going to say isthat you're stepping in the
leadership full-time.
And that blew my mind, becausethat is literally the difference
between a scarcity versusgrowth.
Mindset right the idea that Ican only impact people if I
(39:47):
touch them.
And that, I think, is whatyou've been able to overcome.
You mentioned it earlier You'vedone so many transitions, right
.
Like you've transitioned out ofbeing a healthcare provider
into an entrepreneur, to amulti-location business, to a
tech company.
But I think you said it.
I don't want to put words inyour mouth, but you said
something along the lines that,like, transitioning out of the
day transitions, if not thehardest piece for you.
(40:08):
Is that fair?
Speaker 2 (40:09):
Oh, absolutely yeah, and I do think you have some
sense of guilt.
Is my staff going to look at melike I'm not working as hard or
I'm not pulling my weight?
Honestly, I feel like you dothink that I still have some of
that.
You leave the office a littlebit early, even if I'm going
rushing home to be on a podcastwith you.
(40:29):
You know they don't know that,and so maybe they're thinking
like, oh, I bet she's going tothe spa now.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
Right, because that's what you would do and it's so
funny because like, but it'strue, that's and it's mostly in.
What I think is funny, katie,is that I not only had that, but
I think I would interact withmy team in a way that like
invited that because I'd be likeinitially, before I had that
mindset shift, I'd be like, wellguys, listen, I'm going to go
over here, but really I'm goingto be doing these things and
these things, and it was like,well, why is he being guilty
(40:58):
unless he's doing something else?
Like it was kind of like, whywould he and yeah, and versus
like me just going away?
And what I've learned is thatwhen I was able to step away and
I'm sure you've experiencedthis, when their lives got
better because I wasn't thereand doing other things, they
didn't care where I was becausethey knew in the end it
benefited them, which,ironically, is all any of us
really care about is how does itaffect us?
So it's funny that you stillhave some of that guilt, because
(41:21):
I've experienced that in acouple of my other companies
that were not PT specific.
But it was way easier whenyou're treating.
It's such like your soul interms of how you do things.
But like in my virtual assistantcompany, as I stepped more into
these other things, I feltguilty and I just remember like
my wife going like you know, noone absolutely cares that they
don't see you right, like it'snot like you being on the call
(41:43):
really matters, as long as theyget their job done and
everyone's getting paid.
I'm like, yeah, I guess that'strue.
So without that mindset shift,you would have never been able
to expand the way you've done ortake Hino to this next level.
So yeah, katie, I love this.
I think this was a masterclasstoday on culture.
I love that we were able tocompare your two companies
(42:03):
against each other from arecruiting perspective, a
leadership development angle,but also just where you're going
with it and how you're growing.
It's so unique in that way.
So, yeah, any parting thoughtsfrom you on what you would like
to see in the industry change orhow you want to help change the
industry?
Speaker 2 (42:20):
Oh gosh, when do I end that?
Speaker 1 (42:23):
Let's quickly wrap up .
What's your deepest thoughtsabout the industry?
Speaker 2 (42:30):
So I'm also.
I've been on the governmentaffairs committee for the
private practice section for acouple of years now.
So I get some yeah, so I havesome pretty good insight.
We just had a meeting last weekabout you know what we're
looking at doing for next yearand what we think, because the
administration changes right, sothat's a big thing when it
comes to lobbying for certainissues.
(42:51):
So just trying to have a morestrategic plan going into the
new year with our lobbyists andeverything.
But to me that is the singlemost important thing we need to
do as a profession, from newgrads that are just coming out
to people who have been in thefield for 40 years.
But if everyone can get on thesame page and fight for the same
(43:13):
things, even if I'm not let'ssay I'm not treating cash pay
and you are or you're doingyou're in a rural area and I'm
not you know I'm doingtelehealth and you're not, who
cares?
Like we're all in the sameprofession I wish we could all
just like okay, let's just fightfor whatever we can get a win
at.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
I love that.
Well, it shows why you're doingall this Because, yes, it's for
the patients and all thisgrowth, but at the end of the
day, shifting this profession iswhat matters most.
So, Katie, thank you so muchfor taking time to be on the
show today.
I'm sure lots of people mighthave questions regarding
leadership culture.
Keynote your private practice.
How do people get ahold of youif they want to talk to you?
Speaker 2 (43:55):
I can give you my email.
People can reach out that way.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
Okay, I'll put that in the show notes.
But yeah, no, I appreciate you,Katie.
Thank you so much for being onthe show.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
Thanks for having me, it was fun.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
Guys, thank you for taking time to listen to today's
episode.
If you found today'sinformation to be useful, could
you take a minute and help me?
I would love it if you couldleave a podcast review in your
app so that other people who arelooking for this information
can find it.
Plus, my dream is to have thelargest network of medical
entrepreneurs and leaders in theworld so that together, we can
change healthcare to make itbetter for all.
(44:27):
So, in addition, if you canthink of anyone that you can
send this to, not only wouldthat mean a lot to me personally
, but it would build thisnetwork so that we can make
healthcare the way that we wantit.
rock stars.
Today's special guest is katiehoman.
She is the ceo of both aphysical therapy practice in
florida.
As well.
As he know, he know h e n o, anemr software designed for
physical therapists that shedeveloped initially for her own
private practice.
That has expanded into a verypowerful emr that many private
practices are using.
(00:24):
What's cool cool about ourinterview today is that we're
going to be talking to herspecifically about how she made
the transition from clinician toentrepreneur, from entrepreneur
to leader of a team that ranher practice for her so well
that she was able to startanother company in a completely
different industry, which issoftware.
So she's going to talk a littlebit about Hino, where that came
(00:45):
from, and very unique lessonsaround culture and how she's
adapted lessons from her techcompany back to her PT practice
to create this unbelievablethriving business that is
continuing to scale.
Enjoy the show.
So, katie, you're the CEO andfounder of not just an awesome
multi-location physical therapypractice, but you also have, you
(01:07):
know, this industry-leading EMR.
How are you able to balancethose two things and a family?
It just seems absolutely beyondmy imagination.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
You know what's funny is, the family part is the
harder of it Really.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
I guess that makes sense because it's like the most
valuable, most important aspect, sure.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Absolutely, and I have middle school boys.
So what are they doing?
Constant activities and drivinghere and there.
So that's the most challengingpart of it.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
How old are your?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
boys 11 and 13.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Okay, I've got two boys around the same age, so I
understand that.
World, world, it's a lot ofdriving.
Yeah, yep, so you're balancingthat whole thing, but how does
that look every day like?
Is you know?
Because you, you, how much youhave this, how many?
Tell us about your pt practicefirst, because that was that's
what came first.
Was the pt practice right?
Speaker 2 (01:58):
yeah, yeah.
So in 2009 I opened the firstlocation, um, and then we have
three.
Today they're all within like10 miles of each other.
We're kind of like a littlenice little triangle to the west
of Orlando.
Day to day, I try to get toevery office once a week, even
if it's just for a short periodof time, but then things change
(02:19):
right.
Your day could totally go notas planned.
So like this morning I was inone office and this afternoon
I'm in another, Um, but Itypically will work at home two
to three days a week Amazing.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Is that are those?
Are those days more Hinofocused?
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Not necessarily, um, I just find that I have way less
interruptions, um, and I have,you know, a great, a better
setup, like I feel like thesetup and place that I work in
the offices is kind of liketransient.
Like you know, anyone couldjust sit down and plug into the
monitor there, so it's not, Idon't know, not as efficient, I
guess when I'm in the office.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Well, that's amazing.
So talk about leadershipstructure that you currently
have.
So do you have clinicaldirectors?
And then how is Hino structured?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yeah, so in the practice I have clinical
directors.
I don't have one yet for thenew office.
I'm kind of waiting until thatgrows a little bit more to bring
in somebody for that but I haveclinical directors.
I also have a chief operationsofficer who's been with me since
the day I opened in 2009.
And so he oversees the clinicaldirectors and the office
manager, and then it kind oftrickles down from there Amazing
.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
So, okay, I think this is great, because today's
episode, obviously our focus isalways on helping people
understand how to build theirnetwork.
That's the real value.
But then there's theseleadership concepts that we're
constantly addressing, and oneof the things that you've done
that isn't as common is layersof leadership in two different
industries.
Emr is not physical therapy,that's not healthcare.
(03:50):
That is a tech company, that isa different.
So it's like for your, there'san overlap, of course, in how
they serve, but for you, I justwonder how is Hino structured in
terms of leadership?
Speaker 2 (04:01):
First of all, hino, everybody is remote.
At one point we did have anoffice in Orlando, and then this
little thing called COVID.
Everyone seemed really happy tojust stay at home, and so we
eliminated the need for anactual office, unless we're
having meetings or somebodycomes into town.
But we have, let's see, we havea development team, we have a
(04:26):
billing and RCM team, we have acustomer support team, we have
an onboarding team and then wehave like a product development
team.
So we have a manager for eachlevel.
Oh, and sales, of course.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
And is there someone overseeing that, or is that you?
Speaker 2 (04:43):
No, no, no, no.
My husband oversees all ofthose managers.
I'm involved, so I'm in themeetings and you know
brainstorming and that kind ofthing, but I'm not, I don't
oversee the day-to-day.
As far as that goes.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
You know, rockstar is what Katie's talking about here
is one of these products thatcome from after we have a lot
put in place in terms of systemsand structure.
At the end of the day, katiecouldn't do what she's doing if
she didn't have great leaders atevery location and truly I'm
willing to bet that, as busy asyou are, there's a lot of people
with one location who are somuch busier because they're
treating like 80 hours a weekand they're trying to like hire
(05:20):
and all these things and theydon't.
They look at someone like youand they go.
There's no way I'll ever get towhere Katie's at.
So how did you learn?
Like?
What was your path of figuringout leadership concepts and
learning how to bring on theright people and train them up
correctly so that they can takecare of it, so that you can move
on to other things?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Well, I think it is a really difficult transition to
make from being in patient careand you're like I'm generating
revenue.
So not only the factor of like Ilove patients, I love
interacting with people, I love,you know, seeing the difference
from when they walk into, whenthey leave but it's also like
the financial aspect is a hugething for PT, right, because our
(05:58):
margins are pretty, prettytight, because we're not in too
much control of them.
I think that probably startedwith me with really putting
trust and faith into coachesthat I had business coaches and
just getting that perspective oflike.
I know you think in the shortterm you're not gonna.
(06:20):
You know there's not going tobe the money there to be able to
do that, but I, I listened tothem and I was able to.
You know there's not going tobe the money there to be able to
do that, but I listened to themand I was able to, you know,
find people that really couldcarry on processes and
procedures.
You know, treat patients theway I wanted to be treated and
just really run with it.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
That's amazing and you know, especially you know as
you were growing this company.
At what stage did you startthinking about creating Hino?
Speaker 2 (06:45):
tell me about the birth of Hino so I would say
probably a year in to having apractice.
Um, so my husband's a softwaredeveloper.
He's worked for Oracle for 18years.
Uh, he worked with Oracle whenhe was in the Air Force.
Um, he is a genius on computers.
Don't tell me.
I said that.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
We don't want to get Tito too big.
We want to make sure we keep itnice and humble.
I get it.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Yes, yes, but no, I mean just seeing the little
projects he was doing at work, Iwas kind of like, okay, well,
I'm using this and this and thisand I'm paying.
You know, even if it was cheap,even if it was 20 bucks a month
, you know, 30 bucks a month.
The more systems you have, themore expensive that becomes fast
, but not only with the costyou're paying them, but with the
(07:32):
cost of my time and it was justtaking forever.
So I had, you know, I was likewe're using this little rinky
dink thing that costs $20 amonth, that basically sends your
plan of care to the doctors.
Can you write this so thatwe're not having to do this or
manually fax anything?
And so it just kind of morphedinto honey.
This is what I need.
Can you build it?
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Okay, so very interesting.
So he starts building this out.
At what point did you startrecognizing it was a business?
Speaker 2 (08:02):
At conferences.
So going to conferences,recognizing it was a business At
conferences.
So going to conferences,talking with my peers, and that
was always a hot topic.
I mean, this was what 2013?
There wasn't that much outthere at the time, except for
the big guys, and a lot of ourpeers were like, well, what are
you using?
And then we'd tell them andkind of show them and they're
like, well, I want to use that.
And we're like, well, that'swhat we can't.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
I'm just using it.
For us, it's a personalizedsystem we created.
Yeah, interesting.
How many years did you guyshave that internally before you
started to sell it to others?
Speaker 2 (08:34):
So we went to market basically 2017.
So a number of years.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
But I mean, like I said in the beginning, it was
like little, little componentsand then it just kind of built
more and more so then it endedup being able to do everything I
could possibly need.
Wow, that's amazing.
Well, you know, one of thereasons I'm excited to have you
on the call was because I'dheard so much amazing feedback
regarding Hino and what you guysare doing.
But I think there's so much tobe said about the leadership
journey that you've been on,because there's a lot that has
(09:03):
had to happen in your world inorder for you to start Hino, and
it's interesting because youstill have your PT practice.
I'm guessing at some pointsomeone probably pushed on you
to be like, why don't you sellthat and just focus on Hino and
all these things?
So what has led to yourdecision to grow these two
separate businesses side by side?
Speaker 2 (09:21):
I think there's a few different things.
So, first of all, I love mystaff here.
Like, honestly, I could work athome five days a week and get,
just you know, be as effectivewith being able to run and
manage things at the clinics.
But I like seeing them like.
I like interacting witheverybody is.
It's just a lot of fun, evenwhen you have turnover and your
(09:42):
staff changes.
As stressful as that is as anowner, I still, you know, I
still I love the camaraderie andthe culture that we've built.
So that's that kind of burns mehere.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
So amazing the people you know.
When I sold, I had fivelocations at one point and I
sold my practice, katie it wassuch a surprise to me that the
thing I missed the most was thatamazing dream team that finally
came together and that cameafter years of not knowing how
to be a leader or hiring thewrong people.
So when I finally got to thatpoint, it was such an amazing
thing that I understand it.
I've talked to many people whosold their businesses.
(10:15):
Once you get to that dream team, there's a real argument to
never selling ever.
Because, at the end of the day,your daily activities are based
on how you feel and your joy iscomprised of how you feel
around the people you're with.
So if you have great peoplethat you love and they love you
and you're out there helpingeach other grow I mean, unless
(10:37):
you're selling for a billiondollars even then people like
sell that and they go miserablebecause they don't get that
human interaction driving apurpose, right, I think that's
really.
That's really neat.
So what is it?
How did you find your amazingteam Like?
What was it that happened inyour world to build this dream
team over at your and what'syour PT practice called Home and
rehab and sports therapy Easyto remember.
(10:57):
Okay, so home and rehab.
So so rehab.
So yeah, how did you find thesewonderful people?
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Um, I would say the majority of our therapists are
people we've known, Um, soeither they were students in our
practice, um did rotations withus, or they actually one of
them, our clinic manager, is thehusband of a student that we
had, so a lot of it has beenword of mouth lately, which has
(11:23):
been awesome.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Oh, that's really cool, this word of mouth.
Well so again, it sounds likethe way that you handle these
two separate companies is byhaving leadership established in
both.
Is there anything else youwould tell people about tips or
tricks that have helped youmanage this much on your plate?
Is there anything else that youleverage?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Well, certainly having a leadership team.
I'm delegating.
We have leadership meetingsevery single week for all the
locations and I sit in most ofthem, but I am not really an
active participant.
I let them collaborate, I letthem go over the agenda.
They're doing everything and Ilean on them to be able to do
(12:09):
that.
I feel like it gives them moreauthority, autonomy, and I think
the biggest thing is you.
You have to not be afraid thatthey're going to make a mistake
or not do something that youwould do if it was you running
it.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Yeah, I think that's a big reason why most people
don't end up developing leadersis they are terrified that
they're not going to do it theway that they're going to do,
the way that an owner would doit, or that they would make a
huge mistake.
How have you confronted themoments when people do make
mistakes?
What does that look like, katie, when you're managing or
(12:44):
leading a leader?
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Well, I mean, I think to some extent you set up
guardrails to begin with, right,so it's not just a total
free-for-all, but you know, asmuch feedback as you feel like
they might need to get somethingdone, yes, and if a mistake is
made or something happens, thatisn't what you're hoping the
(13:07):
outcome would be.
You know, you sit down.
You have to be honest with them.
They want to know that too.
I mean, I feel like everysuccess that I've had in
business is because you knowwell, on the coattails of
failures, that I've had right.
You make a mistake, you learnfrom it, you grow and then the
next time you do it a lot better.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
I love the guardrail thing Like you don't just, it's
like a free for all.
You help determine guardrailsin some way.
I had a coach mentor of mine.
He was running this hospitalgroup in Arizona so very large
company and he had a very keyleader make a mistake that cost
him over a million dollars.
And he told me I'll neverforget this.
He said I pulled the leaderaside, put my arm around him and
(13:50):
I said you are worth everydollar of that loss because I
know you are going to learn fromthat and do so much better with
it.
And I remember thinking, Iremember asking him I said no,
come on, how come?
That wasn't a moment where youhow do you know between that and
firing him?
You know, because at a certainpoint, like people can obviously
(14:11):
not be a good fit if they'recosting you a lot of money.
And he said well, he goes.
This was a guy that I alreadyknew was really good in a lot of
areas.
He'd already proven himself inmultiple ways.
This was the project I put himon was a growth project and it
was me learning how to lead himin that project and he did the
best he could with what he had.
He goes.
That was the difference, is theeffort.
I love that you have such anurturing culture in your
(14:32):
company where you're lettingleaders make mistakes in order
to learn.
I'm guessing that must helpcreate trust in your
organization as well.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Oh, 100%.
I mean, if you take a step backand you think about it, you
hire a PT.
You're not sitting in everyeval and every treatment and
micromanaging how they'retreating a patient.
They're going to make mistakeswith that patient too,
especially if you hire a newgrad.
They have to figure out theirflow.
They have to figure out how toresonate with so many different
personalities of patients.
(15:02):
They may cost you a fewpatients, but are you going to
fire them because of it?
No, I mean, ideally you'regoing to go in and sit down with
them and be like look, this isthe feedback I got from this
patient.
Let's make this into a learningexperience here and let's try
to avoid that from happeningagain.
What can we do to?
Speaker 1 (15:19):
prevent that?
Yes, and I would say I lovethat you have that open
discussion and dialogue.
It sounds like that happensafter the connection is made
with your team.
You know, I have a question foryou.
A lot of times, when we developleaders and we have these
strong connections with them,for you, a lot of times when we
develop leaders and we havethese strong connections with
them I've heard this phrase oncefriendly but not friends Does
(15:43):
that ring true for you, or isthat something that is not true
for how you operate with yourleaders?
Are you close personally andyou're good personal friends, or
are there any boundaries?
I'm just curious about whatthat looks like.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
I would say, if anyone on my team needed
something, I would drop whateverI was doing to go help them.
But with that being said, do wehang out on the weekends and
they're you know as close aspeople that I don't work with?
No, they're not, but I would doanything for them and I would
like to think they would do thesame for me if there was.
You know, the time arose.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
I'm so glad to hear you say that you, you and I get
to know each other more too.
Like in my own PT practice andnow with my other company, I
have learned that there is it'snot less meaningful to keep
boundaries in place around theemployee relationships.
I think, if anything, itcreates more of a successful,
safe environment.
Because I used to make themistake, katie, like the first
(16:35):
people I hired, I'm like, well,I've got to be a good boss and
they've all got to be my bestfriends and inherently
everyone's rolling their eyesgoing, yeah, that's a dumb thing
to do, but I honestly didn'tknow anything else.
But what I got right was theconnection part.
What I didn't get right was theboundaries part, and so, like
when my best friends would showup late and I'd be like, hey,
(17:01):
you're late, they'd go, oh,whatever, will you know?
And then we'd all hang out onthe weekends and then
corrections became personal.
So I was surprised when I builtmy leadership team that was
running my PT practice for methe way yours is doing for you,
and we would take a bullet foreach other at least a non-lethal
bullet and we weren't hangingout on the weekends.
It was like 95% of ourdiscussions was work-related,
but that didn't make it lesspersonal to me.
It's just that our personalworlds had a boundary and it
(17:22):
sounds like you guys havenavigated that beautifully.
You guys love and care for eachother and when you're in there,
you're serving the greater goodof what benefits everybody,
which is that company.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Well, you know, I think my background at the
hospital I was in one of thedriving forces to leave and go
out on my own was the terribleculture in the hospital
outpatient that I was in.
I just like I never felt like,okay, I need to be best friends
with my peers, you know.
Okay, we can have a goodconversation and have fun when
(17:53):
we're at work.
I, you know it needs to be anenvironment that I'm happy to be
there.
I don't want to be miserable,of course, but like I don't need
to hang out with you on theweekends, nor do I want to
necessarily, but as long aswe've got each other's back
while we're there and thepatient is at the forefront of
what we're doing, then that'sall that it really needs to be.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Yeah, because there's something so special about
having a relationship you cantrust.
Trust is the foundationalelement of all these stories
that we're telling.
Because you trust that they'regoing to get the job done, even
if they're going to make amistake.
You trust, because of theboundaries you put in place,
that it will be worth it foreveryone.
They trust you to make surethat you are committed to the
(18:32):
future and that you're not goingto sell.
Because you do trust them.
It's a symbiotic relationshipthat is a magic formula for
success.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Clearly, as you've opened your third location, I
wouldn't have opened a thirdlocation if I didn't trust and
know that they had my back,because I physically can't do
that all on my own.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Hey, rock stars, are you having a challenging time
recruiting, retaining ortraining your people?
Then, man, am I excited to tellyou about the Rockstar Summit.
Guys, this is my personal eventthat we are launching on March
1st and 2nd.
It is going to be two full daysof nothing but workshops on how
to solve recruiting, trainingand retaining problems.
(19:15):
It's very heavy on therecruiting side.
We're going to show you whereto find candidates that no one
else is accessing, so that youcan get a leg up in the industry
and grow the business that youdeserve.
So again, that's March 1st and2nd.
Please go towwwrockstar-summitcom to learn
all about the details.
(19:35):
I will be there in personteaching some of the classes,
but we have experts from acrossthe country coming as well.
You do not want to miss it.
I hope to see you there.
Is that your idea?
Did you bring it to them, orwas it more like the group just
discussing ways they could grow,and it came organically.
How did that concept come up tothe team?
Speaker 2 (19:52):
To me.
I kind of got to the point.
This is from feedback from myteam, but it's like at what
point, how do you grow inleadership if you're one clinic,
two clinics, Like what's theopportunity?
I mean, I guess in most smallbusinesses, how far can you go
up the ladder before you'reitching to have more?
(20:13):
And so to me it just seemedlike the natural course was okay
, if we open more offices atsome point I can have a regional
director.
You know like you can createsomething like that for them.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Well, and it's true because I say this in almost
every episode.
So my audience, my rock stars,are rolling their eyes probably,
but, like 88% of people leave acompany because they don't see
a future in it and if they'renot growing then they leave.
It's like there's a smallpercentage of people that are
very content making the sameamount of money doing the same
kind of job, with the occasionallifestyle bump in pay.
It takes a very special leaderto understand it's their job to
(20:49):
grow the company so that there'sopportunity for their team
members to grow into, which ishow we build retention.
So if, like in your case,you're thinking about their
future as a parallel with thecompany's future and as you're
growing the company's futurewith them in mind, everyone wins
.
I mean, stephen Covey is likethe foundational guy around this
thing called a win-winagreement, but I don't think
(21:12):
business owners remember thatit's really their job to spend
time growing their company interms of vision and, frankly, if
they're trading full-time ortrading even a little bit, it's
really hard to bake in the timeto figure all that out.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Yeah Well, and you definitely want employees that
want more, that want to be ableto grow.
You want somebody that'schomping at the bit to have more
responsibility.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Yeah, I love that.
You said that One of the thingsI used to tell people when I was
recruiting that was reallyuseful is I would tell students
in particular, I'm like, hey,listen, we're a growing company,
but not in the way that maybemy competitors are, that are
just too busy.
Like, what I want to do is growaround people, so like, if you
want to be a leader or own yourown practice or be specialized,
(21:55):
that's how I want to grow, andpeople would go, oh, wow, and
I'd say my job is to help youfigure out what you want and
then I'll grow the company withthat, as long as we're committed
to each other's mutualfinancial and personal success.
Right, like that concept of Ionly want to bring people the
people.
Like you said you only want tohire people that want to grow
man, that's the trick rightthere.
(22:15):
Said you only want to hirepeople that want to grow man
that's the trick right there.
Not every PT wants to.
How do you find those?
So word of mouth, you said, isa big way of doing that, but is
there anything else you do tofind those people who are
growth-oriented?
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Well, I mean, yeah, having them in their rotations,
it's better than an interview,right?
You're with them for threemonths, so you get to see
personality, you get to seetheir shortcomings.
It's great, yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
You get to try before you buy.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Yeah.
Other than that, I'm trying tothink most of the other people
we've had have come from onlineads.
I have a pretty In our HRsoftware.
I have a pretty goodapplication that asks things
that are not, you know,necessarily job related.
It's like what's your favoritebook, what's your favorite movie
(23:02):
and why?
I feel like to some extent ithelps me weed through and kind
of see you know.
If someone's just going toanswer like yeah, I don't read,
okay, well, sorry, yeah, on tothe next.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Because you want someone who's a self-starter, a
leader, a leader's going toleaders, learn right, yes, and
so that sounds like you havesome.
What are the other qualifiersfor people to work?
Speaker 2 (23:24):
for you.
If they don't read, they're out.
What else?
I always ask what's one thingthat you have learned in the
last week, and that could beanything from I learned how to
use a jigsaw to how to paint mytoenails.
I don't know whatever.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Yeah right.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
I want to know that they're stretching themselves
and growing, whether that issomething socially or you know
whatever.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Oh, that's cool.
So this really is kind of likea thread that we're pulling on
together in this conversation,is that you look for people
specifically who are looking togrow.
Obviously, rock stars hang outwith rock stars.
In-house referrals are alwaysgreat if they're a great team,
which you have but then youqualify them, especially when
they're coming from online andagain, that's from a software
(24:04):
that you built, or is that likeIndeed?
Speaker 2 (24:07):
I mean, we've been successful with Indeed in the
past but I feel like lately it'skind of meh.
But I feel like lately it'skind of meh.
But the software company thatwe use has a whole I don't know
recruiting aspect to it, whereit posts to all different
platforms.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Monster Indeed all the above, yeah, yeah.
Can you promote them Like justbecause I know a lot of people
listening are like who is that?
Speaker 2 (24:33):
It's Gusto.
I think a lot of people usethat.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
So I use Gusto for two of my companies and I love
it.
So we get nothing out of sayingthat team.
So if you're looking for areally robust payroll software,
I love Gusto.
I think it's phenomenal.
I have never used theirrecruiting functions, though.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
You know it's funny.
I posted I just wanted to gaugefor the new office PTA, um, to
see what you know, what was outin that area, and so I posted on
Indeed for a little while.
Got nothing, um pay paying forit.
And then I posted it throughGusto and it goes.
Part of it is goes to Indeed.
But I did it completely freeand I got three applicants and
(25:11):
I'm like what You're kidding me.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Oh my gosh.
So everyone who's listening tothis, who's using Gusto, start
using it for your recruitingsoftware.
Because when you said I getsome leads from posting as you
know, on the side I do this likecoaching company that helps PTs
hire and I always tell themlisten, you've got to have a
really powerful job ad becauseit's kind of a summary for
everything that you're doing inthe job and people are going to
reference it, but it's not agood lead generator.
(25:36):
But when you said, yeah, I getsome leads for my job ad, I'm
like whoa, so I've never workedwith Gusto before.
That's a really hot lead.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Thank you for sharing that and it makes it easy.
So when you're going you canset certain people.
So like the clinical directorfor the office we're hiring will
be on the hiring team, so youcan put certain people in as the
hiring team.
They see when resumes arecoming through, they can go in,
they can make notes, they can ifthat person is hired you can
(26:06):
like move them up in the processas they're progressing.
So it just kind of streamlinesit.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Yeah, I've been very happy with it and they're very
affordable as well.
I guess I mean, my goodness,for you to get those three leads
of the PTAs when you've gotnothing from Indeed.
Indeed for me, has been thegold standard.
Linkedin's starting to takeover a lot of that area as well,
but I wonder where Gusto gotthat, If that was like LinkedIn
or some other software.
But it doesn, because Gustodoes it all so you don't have to
think about it.
(26:33):
Yeah, oh my gosh.
So how does this all translateover into the?
I like kind of going from, likeyou know, home and physical
therapy and rehab over to theHino side of things?
So what has that journey beenlike?
Is it similar in terms offinding people?
Do you ask the same questions?
Is like, what does that looklike in terms of finding leaders
(26:53):
and talent and growing them inthere?
How are they similar and how isthat different from home and
physical therapy?
Speaker 2 (26:58):
We obviously have a bigger pool to be able to pull
from, since the company is fullyremote.
I'm not trying to find somebodyin central Florida to come into
an office, so that certainlychanges it.
I feel like you can get thebest of the best because they
may live in Phoenix, arizona,even though the rest of their
(27:22):
team lives in Texas.
I mean it's that's definitelyan advantage.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
I'm sure, and so how many employees do you guys have
at Hino?
Speaker 2 (27:34):
50, maybe.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Amazing, so you're probably all over the country.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Oh yeah, yeah, we're like 20 states or something like
that.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
And so how do you develop culture in that
environment when you have 50people across the country?
How does culture get grown wheneveryone doesn't't like you go
into the office for a reason.
You go in there even thoughit's less convenient, because
you get fed by the culture andyou feed into the culture.
How do you do that remotely?
Speaker 2 (28:03):
yeah, that's.
That is a challenge.
So I, being a software company,I kind of lean to other
software companies to fill thegaps of things that we need.
And I met these, these twogreat guys, in Salt Lake City
and they have a little companycompany called Nectar.
Have you heard?
Speaker 1 (28:21):
of that.
I have heard of Nectar.
If, guys and you, by the way,you don't have to have a
software company for Nectar, youcould use Nectar inside a
service company like your PTpractice, right?
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
I use it for both actually.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
You do.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
We started using it for Hino and I was like this is
awesome.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Yes, I've never used it myself, but I almost did once
.
I don't know why I didn't, butmy friends who use it love
Nectar, like straight up love it.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
So I love it as an owner, because I don't know
what's going on with everybodyand all the great things that
the team is doing, and sosomeone will.
Well, let me give you abreakdown.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yeah, talk about it, yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
You put in all your core values, your mission
statement, all of that, and then, basically, employees can go on
the platform and give shoutouts to other team members as it
pertains to a core value.
So far, let's say, our corevalue is customer focus.
So Amy can go out and say hey,tina, thank you so much for
(29:15):
jumping on that call at the lastminute to solve the issue with
blah blah, blah blah.
I'm going to give you 20 Nectarpoints.
They can attach cute emojis andgifts and all that stuff.
So it makes it fun.
And then the employees can takethose points and they can buy
pretty much anything on Amazon.
They can get gift cards, theycan donate it to a charity, they
(29:38):
can get a company swag and theyuse all those points for that.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
That is so cool, so they get to choose what they
want, and it becomes like itreminds me of a kid.
I remember going to the schoolfair and like running around and
like generating tokens byparticipating in different
things and then using thosetokens to go buy books or
stuffed animals and that kind ofstuff and it was cool about it,
was that like it was like itwas it gamified it for me and it
(30:04):
sounds like that it does foryour team.
It sounds like it gamifies itfor them.
And then they have all thislike, oh, what am I going to buy
?
They have all these things.
Every minute they spend kind ofresearching on Amazon or
looking at company swag is asecond that they're enjoying
being a part of your team.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
It sounds like, yeah, for sure, and I do a few other
things.
So during our onboarding fornew hires I have have you ever
gotten a sheet when your kidgoes to like elementary school
and it's like my teacher'sfavorite things and it's like my
favorite scent is lavender, myfavorite color is yellow.
My favorite restaurant is thisright, so you know how to gift
(30:38):
them when you're the parent likeshowing appreciation.
So I have my staff, they allfill out that at the beginning,
so I know their favorite color,I know you know where they like
to eat, what their favoritesnack is, so that that helped a
lot.
And as far as like sending themsomething for their birthday or
for a work anniversary orsomething like that In the
(30:59):
beginning, but then as you get alot of employees it makes it
really challenging to have tolike that doesn't even sound.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
I mean, that'd be a full time job for you to be like
.
Well, today we have two peopleand what are they like?
And I mean that just soundslike a lot of it.
Sounds like that is useful, butas you get bigger, it must be
challenging.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Yes, it is, but I also love that's.
That's kind of how I keepthings so personal with
everybody as well.
So I did set something up onNectar for birthdays and
anniversaries, so they do get,you know, a hundred bucks or
something for their birthday,whatever it is, and so that they
can pick out what they want.
But, like for Christmas thisyear, I sent out customized
(31:39):
blankets with everybody's nameon it in the colors that they
had on their intake.
So that took me like a reallylong time.
But, it just makes me feel goodto be able to send them
something that they appreciate.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
I don't know that is really, really cool.
Um, no, I, I love this.
I, you've got me.
I'm convinced I'm going to goover and sign up for nectar
right now.
I've got you know, as you know,I've got, um, you know, my, my
core team at virtual rockstar,but then I now have hundreds of
virtual assistants now and I'mtrying to create culture and
connection there.
To have something automated isgreat.
The only question I have foryou is, when you do like a
(32:15):
Nectar birthday thing, is thereanything else that goes with it,
like a card or I don't know,like is there a way to
personalize it, because I doworry about it just being too
automated, where it's like $100,boom, happy birthday.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Or is there like somewhere, like a message board,
where people chime in on it, orI mean, it basically goes on
the message board and it willsay you know, happy birthday,
kim.
Here's x number of points to gocelebrate, but you can leave
comments under it, you know.
So it's like a text threadalmost so you can do your pts.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
I can see in the tech world they're always checking
network nectar, but how aboutyour pts?
Are they always on it?
Speaker 2 (32:45):
or yeah.
Yeah, I mean they an app, sothey'll get alerts and stuff
like that too.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Oh, my God.
And plus, they want to be on itbecause they don't know.
Okay, see, I will tell you this.
In my PT practice, I wasshocked that people my age and
even younger didn't even knowhow to check their own email.
Like tech, pts are the leasttech savvy people I've ever met.
Like, we're very hands-on,musculoskeletal focus, so when
it comes to tech, maybe not thebest.
(33:10):
So I was like, the whole timeyou're talking like I just I can
see where in a physical therapypractice where there'd be like
a learning curve for people, butif they're getting bonus on it,
they'll learn it, becausethat's going to be an incredible
incentive for them to want tolearn how to do that.
So then, katie, how do you, howdo you manage like the nectarar
side of things versusproduction bonuses?
(33:30):
I'm sure you do some productionbonuses as well, I don't know.
It seemed to me like therecould be confusion for people
listening when do you use this,when do you use that?
That kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
So Nectar is limited per month.
So each employee gets a certainamount of points that they can
dole out per month, and it's nota lot.
I mean it might be 100 points,which is worth $10.
Oh, I see, so it's not a lot.
I mean you can regulate whatyou want that to be and then
managers get more.
So it's just whatever you setit up to be.
And then as far as productionbonuses and stuff, that's where
(34:07):
my managers are the ones thatare keeping track of all of that
and that's submitted in adifferent way, through payroll.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
That makes a lot of sense.
Production bonuses are forproduction.
Cultural elements are nectar.
Yeah, wow, and then you'restill there.
So no wonder people loveworking at your physical therapy
practice.
That's really cool that youhave all those elements baked in
and all that.
So what's your vision?
I would love to hear like, whatdo you see long term for both
businesses?
Like, what do you see you knowdown the road Any BHAGs that you
(34:40):
have Any ideas of what you wantto create?
Speaker 2 (34:42):
With the clinics, I do want to continue to open.
As long as I have a team that'swanting to be at the helm and
help get things going, then I'lljust continue to open more
locations in areas that areneeded.
As far as the software company,it's so interesting because I
don't feel like we're a standard, typical software company,
(35:06):
because we started out and weran things the way that we knew,
which was opening a practiceright, so we didn't take outside
investment.
We bootstrapped it from thevery beginning and still have to
this day, and so we're verycautious and very methodical
(35:29):
about what we do and how we doit, because it's not somebody
else's money that you're playingwith and you're just
experimenting and trying thingslike no, this is the real deal.
So, as being a practice owner,I'm not going to go spend
$10,000 on some male marketingcampaign if I don't know that
I'm going to see the ROI on it.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Wow, very cool.
So Hino's it sounds like.
The Hino vision is uniquebecause your PT practice is
based on who, not how.
You've got like these greatpeople.
You'll keep opening to givethem opportunities for growth
and that's your motivation whenit comes to Hino.
You want to impact the industry, but you're really firm on not
taking outside money.
You're really firm on beingstrategic in how you scale,
(36:12):
which has to be a littleintimidating at times when you
see different people in thatspace who are taking lots of
money and getting really big andpromoting themselves.
So how do you stand out in thattype of environment?
What are you trusting on atHino?
That's going to continue tohelp you grow in the way that
you have.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Well, I'm in the trenches, just like our
customers are.
So I mean, I think that is abig differentiating factor with
any of our competition.
I know personally the trialsand tribulations that all PT
practice owners go through, andwhat we do at Hino is to try to
streamline and make that stuffautomated and easier and not
(36:55):
logging into different placesand not having these API
connections that fail sometimes,so being able to really be able
to build the product around thecustomer and not an investor
and not somebody else that'stelling you that this is what
needs to happen.
It comes directly from ourclinics and the people that use
(37:16):
it on a regular basis.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Yeah, and I will say this not just because you're on
the show, katie, but I've had anumber of my clients use Hino.
I literally have never heard acomplaint ever, and I think that
comes from the way that you'regrowing.
I think there's plenty of spacefor a lot of different
companies to be out there withwhat Hino does and for a lot of
companies to do very well.
(37:39):
But at the end of the day, Ithink having a loyal fan base is
truly one of the most uniquethings about you guys, because,
again, it's so personalized.
And I think the fact thatyou're I think two things that
are really cool about Hino Ilike is that number one, it was
developed by a PT for your ownpractice and that you know, and
(37:59):
there's other companies that mayhave started maybe one I can
think of that kind of startedthat way that evolved in a
different way.
But what the second piece that'sreally valuable is that you're
not taking outside money andyou're keeping true to that so
that you keep everything superconnected and people love it and
the people I've heard that loveyour software, that I know are
very critical, like they wouldbe the first ones to bash it.
(38:19):
There's no like hesitation.
So I'm excited to see whereHino goes, because in your case
you're not out there likesticking this BHAG going.
We're going to get to 100million and exit.
What you're saying is we aregoing to continue to listen to
our customers and create thisaround them.
It's kind of the way you'redoing your PT practice.
I think your growth strategy islike a concept of who, not how,
(38:42):
what's needed and wanted andbuilding on that.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
What's the benefit of being a practice owner and
hiring more PTs?
Right, so you can make more ofan impact, more of a footprint
in your community, help morepatients?
Right?
And so that's how I look at.
Hino is like, okay, we can workwith other owners who have
other therapists and we're ableto spread our reach to you know,
make the country healthier andmore active and living their
(39:09):
best life.
That's how I look at that,because I know a lot of people,
I think, struggle with the whole.
How do you just step away frompatient care if you really love
what you do?
And that's why, to me, I canmake more of a difference that
way.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
Yeah, it's a mindset thing.
I remember telling my coach howam I going to break it to my
team that I'm stepping out ofpatient care?
And he said Will, you're notgoing to say that.
What you're going to say isthat you're stepping in the
leadership full-time.
And that blew my mind, becausethat is literally the difference
between a scarcity versusgrowth.
Mindset right the idea that Ican only impact people if I
(39:47):
touch them.
And that, I think, is whatyou've been able to overcome.
You mentioned it earlier You'vedone so many transitions, right
.
Like you've transitioned out ofbeing a healthcare provider
into an entrepreneur, to amulti-location business, to a
tech company.
But I think you said it.
I don't want to put words inyour mouth, but you said
something along the lines that,like, transitioning out of the
day transitions, if not thehardest piece for you.
(40:08):
Is that fair?
Speaker 2 (40:09):
Oh, absolutely yeah, and I do think you have some
sense of guilt.
Is my staff going to look at melike I'm not working as hard or
I'm not pulling my weight?
Honestly, I feel like you dothink that I still have some of
that.
You leave the office a littlebit early, even if I'm going
rushing home to be on a podcastwith you.
(40:29):
You know they don't know that,and so maybe they're thinking
like, oh, I bet she's going tothe spa now.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
Right, because that's what you would do and it's so
funny because like, but it'strue, that's and it's mostly in.
What I think is funny, katie,is that I not only had that, but
I think I would interact withmy team in a way that like
invited that because I'd be likeinitially, before I had that
mindset shift, I'd be like, wellguys, listen, I'm going to go
over here, but really I'm goingto be doing these things and
these things, and it was like,well, why is he being guilty
(40:58):
unless he's doing something else?
Like it was kind of like, whywould he and yeah, and versus
like me just going away?
And what I've learned is thatwhen I was able to step away and
I'm sure you've experiencedthis, when their lives got
better because I wasn't thereand doing other things, they
didn't care where I was becausethey knew in the end it
benefited them, which,ironically, is all any of us
really care about is how does itaffect us?
So it's funny that you stillhave some of that guilt, because
(41:21):
I've experienced that in acouple of my other companies
that were not PT specific.
But it was way easier whenyou're treating.
It's such like your soul interms of how you do things.
But like in my virtual assistantcompany, as I stepped more into
these other things, I feltguilty and I just remember like
my wife going like you know, noone absolutely cares that they
don't see you right, like it'snot like you being on the call
(41:43):
really matters, as long as theyget their job done and
everyone's getting paid.
I'm like, yeah, I guess that'strue.
So without that mindset shift,you would have never been able
to expand the way you've done ortake Hino to this next level.
So yeah, katie, I love this.
I think this was a masterclasstoday on culture.
I love that we were able tocompare your two companies
(42:03):
against each other from arecruiting perspective, a
leadership development angle,but also just where you're going
with it and how you're growing.
It's so unique in that way.
So, yeah, any parting thoughtsfrom you on what you would like
to see in the industry change orhow you want to help change the
industry?
Speaker 2 (42:20):
Oh gosh, when do I end that?
Speaker 1 (42:23):
Let's quickly wrap up .
What's your deepest thoughtsabout the industry?
Speaker 2 (42:30):
So I'm also.
I've been on the governmentaffairs committee for the
private practice section for acouple of years now.
So I get some yeah, so I havesome pretty good insight.
We just had a meeting last weekabout you know what we're
looking at doing for next yearand what we think, because the
administration changes right, sothat's a big thing when it
comes to lobbying for certainissues.
(42:51):
So just trying to have a morestrategic plan going into the
new year with our lobbyists andeverything.
But to me that is the singlemost important thing we need to
do as a profession, from newgrads that are just coming out
to people who have been in thefield for 40 years.
But if everyone can get on thesame page and fight for the same
(43:13):
things, even if I'm not let'ssay I'm not treating cash pay
and you are or you're doingyou're in a rural area and I'm
not you know I'm doingtelehealth and you're not, who
cares?
Like we're all in the sameprofession I wish we could all
just like okay, let's just fightfor whatever we can get a win
at.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
I love that.
Well, it shows why you're doingall this Because, yes, it's for
the patients and all thisgrowth, but at the end of the
day, shifting this profession iswhat matters most.
So, Katie, thank you so muchfor taking time to be on the
show today.
I'm sure lots of people mighthave questions regarding
leadership culture.
Keynote your private practice.
How do people get ahold of youif they want to talk to you?
Speaker 2 (43:55):
I can give you my email.
People can reach out that way.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
Okay, I'll put that in the show notes.
But yeah, no, I appreciate you,Katie.
Thank you so much for being onthe show.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
Thanks for having me, it was fun.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
Guys, thank you for taking time to listen to today's
episode.
If you found today'sinformation to be useful, could
you take a minute and help me?
I would love it if you couldleave a podcast review in your
app so that other people who arelooking for this information
can find it.
Plus, my dream is to have thelargest network of medical
entrepreneurs and leaders in theworld so that together, we can
change healthcare to make itbetter for all.
(44:27):
So, in addition, if you canthink of anyone that you can
send this to, not only wouldthat mean a lot to me personally
, but it would build thisnetwork so that we can make
healthcare the way that we wantit.
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