March 4, 2025 • 46 mins
What if the secret to patient satisfaction isn’t just about the patients but about your team?
In this episode, we dive into the critical shift from patient focused care to team-centered leadership and how it directly impacts retention, growth, and business success.
- How team happiness leads to better patient outcomes
- Why word-of-mouth recruitment is your biggest asset
- The importance of continuing education & leadership training
- Overcoming the challenge of transitioning from provider to leader
- Building a team that stays loyal by fostering local roots
If you’re a clinic owner, healthcare leader, or provider looking to scale your practice while keeping your team engaged and motivated, this episode is for you!
Virtual Rockstars specialize in helping support or replace all non-clinical roles.
Learn how a Virtual Rockstar can help scale your physical therapy practice.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hello and welcome back.
Rock stars.
So grateful to have you tuningin today's special episode with
Lance Gross.
Lance Gross is a masterphysical therapy practice owner.
He went from one location to 20locations in seven years and
he's opening four more in thenext year.
So we're going to talk aboutrecruiting and retaining at a
level that is going to be mindblowing.
(00:24):
What's really cool about thisepisode is that it's very simple
.
When you hear how he grows,it's going to release stress
from you, because I thinkoftentimes we end up holding
tightly these things becausethey are so hard and all these
things.
You're going to hear how Lancehas very simply addressed these
issues through a mindset shiftthat anyone can make.
(00:44):
So, whether you have onelocation or 50 locations, this
episode is going to be essentialto help you not only just
recruit and retain better, butit's going to help you shift the
way you see your business.
Enjoy the show.
Okay.
So, lance, you started yourfirst practice six and a half
years ago.
You have 20 today.
I'm sure that, along with thattype of rapid growth, there's
(01:08):
been some incredible shifts inyour mindset.
What are some of those mindsetsLike?
What's a mindset shift that hasoccurred for you and your team.
That has been evident in yourgrowth.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
I would say, when we first started our first clinic
six and a half years ago, wewere obviously thinking we're
going to build this clinic,we're going to make lots of
money, we're going to servepatients, we're going to take
care of these patients, we'regoing to make all the patients
super happy.
And over time you realizethat's not the case From one
practice.
You don't make a ton of money.
You don't make every patienthappy.
Sometimes your team membersaren't as happy.
(01:40):
So as we've grown and movedalong and added more things,
it's become, especially the lasttwo years, a huge shift in our
mindset.
Where we were at first we wereworried about making every
patient happy, patientsatisfaction all the same, and
not really taking care of ourteam so much, not really taking
care of our team members.
So they were kind of getting,you know, work harder, work
harder, work harder.
(02:01):
You know, not a lot of positiveenergy feedback to them, not a
bunch of negative either, butnot a lot of you know, not a lot
of pats on the back goingaround.
So over the last couple of yearswe've changed our mindset to
more mentorship and moreeducation and more leadership
training for our team membersand not really worried about the
patient so much, because if ourteam is happy, the patients are
happy.
So if they're smiling faces,they're energetic, they're
(02:23):
enthused to be there, thepatients pick up on that and
they all stay happy.
So we really strive to make.
I tell our team all the time Iwant this to be your favorite
place to work.
So we want to make sure thatyou want to work here forever,
Like this is your career, notjust a job hopping.
This is where I want to stayforever, because I'm happy doing
what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Lance, I think what's so powerful about that is that
when I coach across the country,most of my clients get super
stuck around one area and that'srecruiting.
So it's interesting that for aguy in Arkansas, there's not
like a billion PT schoolsfloating around out there.
It's not like you have.
For you to grow, you have tohave a unique strategy.
(03:03):
That is not really something ofa strategy, as much as just a
mindset shift, which is thatyou're not so hyper-focused on
just patient care being theprimaries.
And again, it's not that you'reneglecting that.
You're saying my team is myfocus, building an experience
for employees that makes themsuper happy to come to work
every day.
Like you said, you want them towake up every day happy to come
(03:23):
to work every day.
Like you said, you want them towake up every day excited to
come to your company.
How did you discover thatmindset shift?
What occurred for you aroundthat?
Speaker 2 (03:32):
You know it's a multitude of things.
So I you know I plug into somethings that you talk about and
other folks talk about.
I think it was just aconglomerate of all that stuff
and kind of sitting back andlooking and, to be honest, the
first week when you havemultiple clinics, we had the
first four or five.
Managing five clinics is verydifficult because they really
have to be efficient and have tobe generating revenue in order
(03:53):
to keep things going.
But once you get more than that, it becomes a little easier
because each clinic doesn't haveto be they don't have to be the
breadwinner, they just got tobe a little successful.
And as long as they're a littlesuccessful, people that work at
that clinic are happy, and I'mnot, you know, you're not so
demanding on them, I guess, asto be productive, if that makes
sense.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
There's not so much pressure, like I hear what
you're saying.
See, I never had more than fiveand I remember those days of
like everyone's got to pull,we've got to maximize
profitability at do it right,because there was no middle
ground.
It was like either we weremaximally productive and
profitable or not at all.
This whole thing about when youhave five locations the
(04:32):
profitability expectations areso big it makes you put pressure
on the team almost because youhave no choice.
But when you're getting biggeryou get past that because you
get the accumulation of marginalgains that start to allow you
to focus on the team and notworry so much about the minor
ebbs and flows of profitability.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
That that's correct and it's no doubt I was telling
someone the other day because wewere we have the 20 clinics now
and we're opening four morewithin the next three or four
weeks depending, depending onwhen the construction gets done.
You know how it goes.
We're remodeling, we're at themercy of contractors at the
moment, but so sometime beforethe end of february we'll have
four more.
And someone asked me the otherday, like how do you do that?
I said actually it's, it'sbecome easy now, like it's
(05:05):
easier.
It's way easier to open clinicsnow than it was five, six years
ago.
We have a system in place.
We go over that way.
We know how to set theequipment up, we know how to get
the place set up and the teammembers are the important part.
So we don't ever we've neversomething unique about us.
We've never opened a clinic andthen tried to find team members
.
We have the team members firstbefore we open the clinic.
(05:26):
So we have team members, atherapist that comes and works
for us for a year or two yearsand starts expressing management
opportunities and exemplifiesthe leadership skills, and we
kind of mentor them and say,okay, where would you if you had
your own clinic?
Where would you want to put itand they say, oh, I don't want
to put it here, and then we golook in there, then we put them
(05:48):
a clinic there and then theytake off and manage that clinic.
Amazing.
So all of our clinics havegrown from inside and out.
So we haven't ever gone out andput a clinic in and had to hire
someone to fill it.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Guys okay, rock stars , this is mind-blowing Pay very
close attention to thebrilliance of what you.
So Dan Sullivan said it in adifferent way in a book called
who, not how, we grow around who.
You love that book?
Yeah, it's great, it's.
For me, that was transitionalbecause, like normally as an
entrepreneur, I get like theshiny object syndrome.
I want to go build all theseideas, but the truth is I want
(06:15):
to build people and the peoplebecome the determinants of what
the strategy is.
So, like you know, obviouslythere's some limitations.
Like you wouldn't go nurture anengineer at this point, you
would stay in the physicaltherapy realm, since that's your
business.
But, guys, rock stars, thisidea about like growing around
who, not how, here's one thing Iwant you to hear is that Lance
is able to recruit powerfullybecause he's not needy.
(06:37):
He has this success that hasaccumulated over time In my mind
the thought I have Lance isslow, is fast and fast is slow
Because if you had startedsaying I'm going to open 20
clinics this year and then tryto recruit for that, it would
have gone much slower, morepainful.
But what you did was like let'sjust go one clinic at a time,
(06:57):
let's focus on the team abovethe patient, as you've realized
that.
And then you attract betterpeople who grow.
And, as you've realized that,and then you attract better
people who grow, and then, whenthey're ready, you start more
locations and it's thisexponential compounding effect
of growth.
So, because most of the people,lance, I work with, they're so
desperate for PTs yesterday orthey want to sell because
they're so done.
They've been treating for 40years and they just want out but
(07:20):
they've never recognized and,by the way, don't feel bad if
that's you listeners, rock stars, don't feel bad.
That was me for years.
I didn't do 20 clicks in thattimeframe.
It took me 15 years to get tomy five.
So it's not the age, it's thestage of learning.
So now that we've learned thisconcept, let's really drive that
in of building around the rightwho's.
Because, yeah, lance, what Iwould love to hear from you a
(07:43):
little bit now is, like, what doyou guys do for recruiting?
Like, how does that work?
Speaker 2 (07:47):
for your company, so we recruit from.
We have five physical therapyschools in Arkansas, so we
recruit from them, of course,but most of our recruiting comes
from word of mouth, honestly,from someone that works with us
knows someone else that workssomewhere else and they say, hey
, this is a pretty good gig overhere, this state trade is
pretty good.
I would say 99% of ourrecruiting comes from our own
(08:07):
team members recruiting someoneelse to come work for us.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
And do they come from out of state or is it mostly
from Arkansas, mostly from?
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Arkansas, yeah.
So we try our best and I don'tthink we've ever I don't think
we've ever recruited someonefrom out of state.
For us is local, which isanother kind of beauty that
works with our.
So someone that is from, let'ssay, smithville, that works for
us.
They grew up in Smithville andthey work for us for a year or
(08:33):
two and say, hey, I'd like toput a clinic of my own in
Smithville, then that's theperfect fit, because that person
is from there, they have rootsthere and that's their clinic in
their town.
So that's that's.
That's the whole gist of whatwe've done.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Well, I love this conversation because the next
questions are going to be.
I can hear my audience likewell, what does he do to take
care of his team?
So we'll get into that.
But here's what's funny, lance,is I've coached people in
Arkansas in recruitingspecifically, and it's such an
amazing difference what mindsetmakes, because I've heard the
same facts that you justmentioned as reasons why they
can't recruit.
They're like well, I can'trecruit unless they're from
(09:06):
Arkansas and it's this tinylittle state and there's only
five schools and, frankly, theyjust start listing all the same
things that you just said howyou recruit.
Well, are the reasons why othercompanies I know have told me
why they can't recruit.
Well, it's just, this idea offocusing on team has put you
guys in a position to where itstarted to snowball.
Your brand has started tocompound as you've made impacts.
(09:29):
So that would be a great toolfor all the listeners is what
are you doing with your people?
Your mindset is focused onhelping them get excited about
coming to work every day.
What do you do with your teamsso that they do wake up excited
to come to work every day?
And then, you know, down theroad, tell their friends to come
work for you?
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Not to get too far into depth of that, but we do.
We do pay very well.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
So that makes it.
That makes it.
That makes a difference, forsure.
But we also our leadership,mentorship training.
We have unlimited access tocontinue education.
So we have no limit on CEUs orfurther education or
certification.
So anybody that works for usthat comes to us and says I want
to get certified in this ortraining this, we pay for it.
(10:13):
And unless they come and say,hey, I want to do this three
week course in Hawaii, we're not, you know, we're not doing that
, but within reason, withinreasons that we do that, and yes
, I don't.
And yes, there's no telling howmany certifications we paid for
this past year and how many CEUhours our staff earned.
Most of them did well over 30or 40 continuing education hours
(10:34):
this past year.
Whoa, I paid for best.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
So that Con Ed is really big for students in
particular because they'recoming out and they're looking
for leadership.
But it's not just the Con Ed.
I think that's a cool,attractive thing.
But I think, lance, it's thisleadership program as well.
Like it sounds like you'regiving them a path to the future
of what that is.
So is that like when you sayleadership, is that like
directorship, or is it more justgeneral leadership?
Speaker 2 (10:57):
So a little bit of both.
So we do a general leadership.
We have a leaders group.
So the managers are all ourleaders.
We call them our leaders group.
They're all the leaders.
We do a once-a-week meetingwith them.
It's a Zoom meeting.
It just lasts 45 minutes to anhour each week.
We talk about topics of theweek, what's been going on in
the clinics.
We also do a leadership.
(11:18):
We call it our book club.
We read the same book and thenwe are talking about it.
So right now we're workingthrough, we're working through a
John Maxwell's 21 irrefutablelaws.
So we're working once a week.
We do one law a week, kind ofgo over that.
And then we've done a couple ofother books.
So and we'll do that in thefuture, so anyway, then they
take that training and take itback to their local team at
their clinic and then theyimplement.
(11:41):
So I'm helping train theleaders and they're training
their teams individually.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Guys.
So this has been talking to theRockstars audience.
Listen, look how simple that is, but how powerful it is.
I think where we getoverwhelmed sometimes, lance, is
this idea that leadershipprograms need to be super thick
and meaty and we have to buildthem out first.
It feels like you're buildingthe plane as you're flying it
with a leadership program whereit's like hey, let's pick, let's
(12:06):
pick.
Why are you laughing?
Speaker 2 (12:08):
That's how I do everything.
So that's how I do everything.
Literally, it's like I havethis idea and we just do it.
And my wife, my wife's also aPT, but she doesn't practice
anymore.
She, she actually runs thebusiness part, so she takes care
of, you know, all the newclinics.
And just come on this hair,brain, ideas, and she's like we
can't do that.
I'm like, oh, you probably can,let's do that.
Yeah, that's.
And if you're asking me,anybody that's been working for
(12:28):
with me for a long time.
I have several employees thathave been with me for 15 or 20
years because we had some otheranother therapy business before
the clinic.
Anyway, they all know thatabout me like they've, oh,
here's another idea, we're goingto do it.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
And sometimes they work out, sometimes they don't
but you do it together and youimplement quickly.
And I think what's brilliantabout your leadership program,
lance and I want the rock starsto pay attention is this idea
that you're taking it justsomething simple, like a book
and everyone reads a section ofthe book and you call it your
book club.
But one of my favorite quotes Iever heard was from a mentor
(13:00):
who said that who we are in fiveyears is a combination of what
we read and who we associate themost with.
And it's so true, like thebooks we read.
So you're developing this teamin a very step-by-step way of
like the 21,.
What was it?
Irrefutable laws, irrefutablelaws.
I've heard of that book.
It can never say irrefutable,but like, that week-to-week
(13:20):
process is so simple right, it'slike, but then how does the big
changes occur?
It's always like these smalland simple, but consistent.
I think the thing I hear in youis consistent changes.
So, rockstars, as you'relistening, what are the things
that you could implement thatare small but you could do
(13:40):
consistently?
Is it a book club, where youjust everyone reads a book and
you talk about it?
Is it something else, like anonline program or a training
course?
Is it listening to the samepodcasts.
What is that for you guys, asyou're listening For Lance?
For you, how do you pick yourbooks and stuff?
How do you determine the bookclub content?
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Mostly recommendations from guys like
you and people I listen to andpeople I talk to, that I
associate with.
That are other leaders in thetherapy world, mostly in the
therapy world.
So it's been recommendations,you know, I think.
I actually think you gave methe book who, Not how.
I'm pretty sure you did.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Oh yeah, I forgot when we first met.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
So I read it, I read it once and I'm actually reading
it again right now, the secondtime through.
I said, of course it's betterthan the first time, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Well, and that's why you're such a successful leader.
You've read the book twice.
I've only read it once, and Ithink that's amazing.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
I'm only halfway through the second time, so I
haven't quite got it twice yet.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Man, I love this idea .
So one thing that you said too,lance, I want to talk.
I want to hit on really quick.
People leave our companies.
According to LinkedIn, over 86%88% of our people who leave us
it's because they don't see afuture in it.
So it feels like between thisunlimited con ed concept and
this constant leadershipdevelopment, plus you open
(14:56):
clinics, that's the other thingis, if I was working for you,
I'm getting paid well, I'm alsogetting nurtured, I'm getting
like this, this idea of like Icould go, I could go be a
director of a clinic one day andthen I get to go join this
elite group of cool people.
So you know, how do you filterout?
How do you know?
How do you guys filter outpeople who aren't a fit for your
(15:18):
company?
How do you recruit or what doyou do in a way that prevents
people who, who could disruptthat, that beautiful thing that
you're building?
Speaker 2 (15:27):
So we've been really lucky, that kind of like I said
earlier, most, most everyone allthe therapists, clinicians that
work with us knew someone thatworks for us before.
So they we have already got arelationship, so there's a
history, they know.
They know them personallyalready before they come on our
team.
So we have very few people thatjust came to us organically.
They just applied for the job.
We have very few of those.
(15:47):
Most of them we knew ahead oftime.
We've had this.
This will blow your mind and itblows everybody's mind.
I'm telling this.
Since the last six and a halfyears, we've only had one
clinician leave us.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
I have to sit down.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Right, right Is that and it was.
It was one of those.
Yeah, but only one is left.
Clinician has left us.
We, of course, we lose, youknow, ancillary staff that come
and go.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Yeah, but the core team, the core PTs, all those
people you've lost one person insix and a half years, right?
Speaker 2 (16:25):
What would for retention would be then.
So, like I mentioned, most ofour team are local.
Whatever town they work in,whether clinic is, that's where
they grew up and they live andthey have roots there.
Their husband's there, theirfamily's there, their wife is
there, their parents are there,so they have no reason to leave.
And then the incentives that wehave as far as pay goes, and
then the education we give them.
If they're going to be atherapist, there's no better
place to be a therapist, andthat's kind of that's what we
want.
We want to.
If you're going to practicephysical or occupational therapy
(16:46):
in Arkansas, the only bestplace to be is a GTS.
That's the best place you coulddo it at.
So that's, that's what wereally strive for.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Amazing.
Do you?
Have you worked with anycoaches along this journey for
you?
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Nope, no coaches.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Okay, so you're probably listening going Will
you say all the time that youshould always have a coach.
Well, listen, I will tell youthis organically when it comes
to leadership, there arenatural-born leaders and there's
everybody else.
The natural-borns are very fewand far between, and, lance, I'm
going to make you feel bad, butyou're one of those
natural-born leaders.
You're one of those that mybrother-in-law is the same way.
He's this guy who dropped outof college.
(17:22):
He's never had a coach, and hehas the third largest pest
control company in the country.
It's massive.
I was a keynote speaker at hisinternal event for two years in
a row.
There's hundreds of people athis own company event that are
just the leaders.
They're not the employees.
It's the local clinic directortypes for his pest control
(17:43):
company, and there's just peoplewho kind of see it.
What's like?
The local clinic director typesfor his pest control company,
and there's just people who kindof see it.
What's fun about talking tonatural leaders like you, though
, lance, is this idea that youjust see it so simply that you
spell it out really cleanly,this idea of what's the secret
to retention.
Well, there's no real secretwhen you're building around the
right people, because the rightpeople attract the right people.
So what's your secret forrecruiting?
Well, we started with the rightpeople and we incentivize them,
(18:07):
so we love on them so well, wenurture them so well that they
tell their friends, and so it'screated this snowball effect.
So guys like me, we might.
We just we have to grind alittle bit harder to figure that
out.
But that's what's beautiful, isthat anyone can do it.
So I want rock stars who arelistening that to feel
intimidated, because that is nota that's not a typical path.
(18:27):
But you, you've also put yourwhole heart and focus on this,
and I think that's what'sbeautiful.
It's not just because it wasnatural for you Doesn't mean
it's been easy.
You've gone through some reallychallenging times, I'm sure.
Yes.
Oh yeah, Of course there's butit is interesting because you're
in the top 1% of all the peopleI've met and I think that's
what's great, for my audience isto hear this.
So what are some of thosechallenges that you've overcome
(18:49):
In the growth of going from?
That is super fast, going fromzero to 20 in seven years really
seven, probably 24 in sevenyears.
What are some of the keychallenges that you've
experienced along that way?
Speaker 2 (19:03):
So I think just the knowledge, maybe the knowledge
base, of how to actually run anoutpatient therapy clinic.
I didn't really know how to dothat.
You know, I'd been a therapistfor 28 years now, so 20
something years when we openedour first clinic never had an
app and never had a clinicbefore ever, and just the ins
and outs of actually how to dothat, how to actually run a
clinic with the credentialingand the hiring and insurance and
(19:26):
just all those things we had tolearn at first.
And it was a struggle.
We had five clinics we had open.
We went five clinics the firstyear and they all opened within
like six months of each other.
So we had a core of five clinicsfor about two years and for
that two years it was a struggle, like mental, financial,
everything.
There was no, there was nomoney being made, there was no,
(19:46):
we were just pouring money outdoing this and finally it
started.
Everything started clicking andthen since then it's been much,
much easier and that a lot ofit was my personal growth.
I just I just didn't know howto handle all that at first Much
better not great at it yet, butmuch better than I was then.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Hey, rockstars, are you having a challenging time
recruiting, retaining ortraining your people?
Then, man, am I excited to tellyou about the Rockstar Summit.
Guys, this is my personal eventthat we are launching on March
1st and 2nd.
It is going to be two full daysof nothing but workshops on how
to solve recruiting, trainingand retaining problems.
(20:26):
It's very heavy on therecruiting side.
We're going to show you whereto find candidates that no one
else is accessing, so that youcan get a leg up in the industry
and grow the business that youdeserve.
So again, that's March 1st and2nd.
Please go towwwrockstar-summitcom to learn
all about the details.
(20:46):
I will be there in personteaching some of the classes,
but we have experts from acrossthe country coming as well.
You do not want to miss it.
I hope to see you there.
As you're talking, lance, what'sclear for me is the difference
between mindset and skill set.
I think one thing that, aswe're talking about, I feel like
I'm embarrassing you Like thisnatural leadership you have is
mostly tied to your mindset.
(21:07):
I think that's what makes youpowerful is this idea that you
have a natural way of justseeing things from an optimistic
, growth-minded set, but youstill hit limitations on your
skillset and that's the thing.
Like there are ways that wethere are things that we have to
learn.
So even you, you have to readbooks.
You know you go to conferenceslike everybody else and that's
(21:28):
where you learned your.
Actually I'm putting words inyour mouth when did you learn
the skillset when you were atthat level, when you were stuck
with your five locations?
Where did you go to learn whatyou needed to learn?
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Just plugged into a couple of conferences and groups
and things.
I'm not going to name names ornot, but I did that.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Oh, go for it.
Mention names Plug anythingthat these people can hear and
go.
Why should join those groups?
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Right.
So the first one was pluggedinto Breakthrough with Chad
Madden and his group.
Love that guy, Love that group.
And I've been three years nowwith them and I've only missed
one conference because my wifewould let me go at wedding
anniversary.
She's like no, you're not going.
I'm like okay, so you know howthat goes.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Wedding anniversary Smart woman.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Right, so smart guy, I just got to stay at home, so
maybe I'm just kidding, butanyway I've missed one of those.
I've done some other reading,listened to you talk and talked
to you not enough times butseveral times, and it's helped
tremendously.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Well, I've learned a lot from you too.
I think that's the cool thingabout leadership journeys.
It's kind of like your team,right, your team is in there
reading books together andlearning together, and everyone
brings something special anddifferent to the table that they
can grow from.
And that's my favorite part ofthis journey.
For me is being able to rubelbows with guys like you, like
truly.
When we met it was like wow,he's accomplished something in
(22:42):
your space.
I was in your space.
I never got to that level, soyou have this like influence as
well, so we can all just takewhat we've come from with our
own specialties and rock stars.
As you're listening, you mightbe thinking oh, I don't have
anything, bull crap.
I've met.
Some of the most powerfulleaders I've met are actually
guys and girls who've only hadone location for 40 years, who
(23:03):
just have felt stuck.
Now they haven't realized thesame profits and there's some
unlocks that could really helpthem.
But I kid you, not one of myfavorite leaders of all time I
won't call him by name, but heis in Arkansas.
He's had this one practicepretty much his whole career,
but he has influenced theindustry 100%.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
I know who you're talking about?
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, tremendous person, tremendous,
one of my favorite humans.
I'm just going to mention him.
His name is Seth Coulter.
He is one of my favorite peopleon the planet.
He's had one location, but he'shelped build this network in
Arkansas.
That, I believe, is the modelfor how the whole industry
should be organized.
To fix the industry, like ifyou're basing it off of like
(23:44):
number of locations or money orgrowth, like that's just one way
to measure impact.
There's multiple ways tomeasure it.
So, rockstars, as you'relistening, just take what you
can from Lance and recognizethat, like, everyone has
something very special and Ireally believe that, lance and
clearly you do too, because youhave this team of people that
(24:06):
are growing you would have tobelieve in each person's ability
to contribute, otherwise youwould never grow.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
True.
Yeah, I truly let them do theirown thing if that makes sense.
So I give a little bit ofadvice and then let them do it.
So I have whatever thoselocations we have.
There's a few that I haven'tbeen to in over a year.
Honestly, I haven't evenvisited them.
I haven't even been there tosee them.
I've talked to them on thephone.
We do a Zoom meeting once aweek, but I actually step my
foot in the clinic.
I have not even been there.
(24:30):
I don't typically do muchtreatment in the clinics.
I do one of the clinics that'sclose to my house.
I do a couple evaluations aweek there.
I do some home visits stillhome health stuff.
I'm practicing.
So I practice every day.
I see patients every day, butnot like near like I used to, of
course.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
I love that.
You said that.
By the way, that was in yourintake bio for the podcast, and
I wanted to hit on that becauseI've been guilty of saying, you
know, kind of overemphasizingthe need to get out of treating
because it's like this.
But I think what we're tryingto say when I say that is that
it's not a matter of stoptreating, it's a matter of start
(25:08):
leading so that, you know,people get so wrapped up in
their identity as providers thatthey get stuck.
And that's something that wesee commonly is like stop
looking for the cookies at theend of the treatment sessions
and start looking for the teamthat you can build.
But what's cool about whatyou've done is that you've been
able to build your company towhere you do what you want and
you still care, as a therapist,to develop those skill sets.
(25:29):
So you keep that as a part ofyour routine, but it's not at
the sacrifice of your company'sneeds.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Right.
That's probably been thehardest thing for me personally
is to try to step away fromtreating patients Like it's.
I know I need to.
I know I need to more because Iright now, right now, I
probably do oh, I know I do, Ido.
I do 15 to 20 evaluations aweek.
Wow, right, so that's what,that's what I, between home
health, typically do it a week.
But I need to get away fromthat more.
(25:55):
I really need to get away so Ihave more time to manage,
because it would give me moretime to manage the business.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Yeah, I think you're at that stage where need is
maybe not the right word onlybecause you're creating it so
intentionally.
Does your team look at thatpositively?
Does that influence your teamin a way where they see you as a
provider?
Oh, he still treats he's one ofus, or?
Speaker 2 (26:13):
is that kind of?
Speaker 1 (26:14):
irrelevant to them.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
It's important to some of them, I think.
I think it's part of them.
Part of them give me.
I get more respect from themand other people because I still
treat patients, I think.
And then there's part of themthat's worked for me for a long
time that are like stop treatingpatients, you need to stop.
They're telling me to back upsome and not do so much of this.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
So yeah, I can see it because I think the ones who
know you know you understandyour impact on them, Because
when you're not treating, whoare you thinking, who are you
working for?
You're really impacting theteam more than the patients if
you're not treating.
So I can see them the peoplewho really know you are like hey
, this is great, but when you'reover here in leadership, my
life keeps getting better and Iwant my life to get better, so
(26:52):
maybe you should stop treating.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Probably exactly they , so maybe you should stop
trading.
That's probably exactly.
They would probably agree withthat statement, I think.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Oh, that's great, Well, okay.
Well, listen you're, I don'tknow.
You feel to me like this guywho's been able to do what very
few have because of your team,and I want to make sure that, as
your team is listening to this,that this is a complete your
company experience.
Where are you guys going?
Like, 20 locations in sevenyears, 24 locations in seven
(27:19):
years is so phenomenal.
Do you guys have aspirations ofbeing a multi-state business or
are you just kind of likefiguring it out?
Are you still building theplane as you're flying it kind
of thing?
Speaker 2 (27:28):
One of our clinic.
We're opening a clinic inMissouri this month, february.
So we're multi-state, I guessgoing to be multi-state, so
we're multi-state, I guess goingto be multi-state, so right.
Which has turned into a wholebigger nightmare as far as
insurance credentialing than werealized it was going to be.
But that's the other thing.
So I don't really know.
People ask that all the time.
When we first started this Ididn't envision 20.
I didn't think six years ago wewere going to have 24 clinics.
(27:49):
That wasn't even my idea.
I thought we'd have four orfive and we'd be happy and
that'd be fine.
But as our leaders keep growinginside our group and they're
saying I want to have my ownclinic, that's how it all just
happened.
So I haven't really soughtafter it.
I haven't said, hey, let's opena clinic in this town.
Someone came to me and saidlet's open a clinic in this town
.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
I'm like, okay, let's do that, yeah, and isn't that
so much easier to just going tobe more intuitive with what's
already happening versus like,okay guys, we're going to be 80
clinics in five years?
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Yeah, no, my wife would kill me if we did that.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
I'd be on the front porch, so yeah, oh man, yeah, I
really feel that it'sinteresting because in my
journey when I had those fivelocations, I got that team
dialed in to where I was workingonly in recruiting and some
high-level leadership for about20 hours a week and I was busy
building that merger exit thingthat I created.
But my team was like, hey,let's go open 20 more clinics,
(28:44):
and they were the ones who wasdriving it.
I think that's when you knowyou've crossed that line of
reactive to proactive.
Growth is when your team istelling you where they want to
go.
And that's when I tapped outactually it's funny, lance,
because I wanted to do somethingmore for the industry kind of
facing the industry and that waswhen I was like, okay, this is
going beyond what works for me,but it sounds like for you you'd
(29:08):
be open to whatever it needs tolook like.
So if it's a few more great.
If it's 80, more great.
You're just kind of open.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Yep, yeah, if it's no more, great, but I don't think
it'll be that.
I mean these four we're openingnext month or next, whatever
there's going to be.
All those just came from onemeeting.
One day I said anybody want tohave another clinic?
And they're like yes, yes, yes,I do.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Yes, I do these four.
You already have the who's.
Yes, so how do you, sinceyou're so Rockstars as you're
listening?
I think the key takeaway withwhat we're talking about right
now is about being open.
You know, there's a balance, Ithink a dance that exists behind
having an intentional focus forgrowth but also being open to
what is, and so maybe there'skind of some letting go, Like,
(29:58):
once we create a vision for thefuture, which I still think is
valuable, what can we let go of?
And just be open to what's andpaying attention closely to
what's already happening aroundus.
So, Lance, since your vision ispretty open, how do you define
success for you and yourbusiness?
What is the criteria that youuse to determine what success
(30:20):
looks like?
Speaker 2 (30:21):
I think just honestly at this point in time, if my
team is happy, that kind ofsounds cliche but I think if
they're happy and we're notlosing money, then that's
successful.
So our brand in North Arkansashas become kind of I mean, we're
kind of known for the therapyin North Arkansas.
There's other great providers,of course.
I mean we're kind of known forthe therapy in North Arkansas.
There's other great providersof course here.
But we're kind of known as atherapy place.
(30:41):
Because we're drafting NorthArkansas, you're going to see
one of our clinics in every townalmost no-transcript, and
(31:06):
they're happy working there.
Honestly, that's it.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
What if all of our criteria for success was just
this balance of happiness?
Right, you know, instead oflike my sons, I have four boys
like as a parent, I coulddestroy my peace and my
happiness by having expectationsof them to being like
professional athletes orwhatever.
And again, I do think there'ssomething about having some
standards and expectations.
(31:30):
I don't think that's likesaying that we get rid of those,
but what if it was a matter oflike supporting people in their
journey to be happy andsuccessful?
And as long as they're doingwell in a team sense, then we're
all doing well.
And, like you said, there'scriteria profitability, it's not
like that.
You don't look at stats oranything.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
That's constant.
I mean I'm a whatever a numbersfreak-o.
I look at every day I'm a muchmore metrics every single day,
just to kind of see where we'reflowing and ebbing at and make
sure we're still just on track.
But it's not the driving forcethat makes us successful.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Yeah, it's how people feel, and if your team is happy
and feeling nurtured, the statsjust kind of take care of
themselves.
Yeah, like.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
I said at the first, when you first question you
asked I think it's that if theteam is happy working where
they're working, everything elsefalls into place.
Everything else just worksgreat.
So as long as they're happywhere they're working at, and
happy with their job, happy withtheir performance, happy with
me, everything else takes careof itself.
It really does.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
It's hard for me to not have these discussions and
take what I learn and apply themto other groups.
What I mean by that isorganizational health is
something that applies to allorganizations.
So when we're talking aboutyour company, lance, I think
about my family, I think aboutmy church organization, I think
(32:47):
about any group of people thatare coming together to form a
team, and as you're talkingabout happy team, it reminds me
of that phrase happy wife, happylife.
And it's true.
I think one thing that I haveparalleled with you is that I've
been very blessed to have amarriage that I feel very
content in and very happy in,and my wife tells me the same
and I don't have any reason todisbelieve her.
But I think it's becausethere's this balance that I see
(33:09):
that's the one place in my worldwhere I see a parallel.
I have this marriage where wereally do.
As long as I'm taking care ofher and helping her be nurtured,
she takes care of me, and it'sjust this beautiful, like back
and forth relationship behindthat.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
So we didn't talk about that.
But we're the same way.
My wife and I we're the same.
We were high school,sweethearts, college, like we're
the same, like we're the sameperson, and that's probably huge
, probably more benefit than werealize it is.
It's probably helps us moregrowing up doing the things we
do, that we have the supportfrom them and we think the same
and have the same ideals.
I joke about her gettingoverwhelmed, but she's fantastic
(33:45):
so I couldn't do this withouther.
There's no way.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Yeah, I think and, by the way, I think this is an
important lesson to hit for therock stars as well.
I think there's this concept,concept, so part of like your
natural, like you knowleadership we've talked about
and again I want to give yourfull team credit because I
recognize that you are areflection of these great people
that you've taken care of butthey've taken great care of you
back.
So you have this wonderfulsymbiotic relationship.
But it started in the home.
(34:08):
I from when there's problems inthe home, it's really hard to
be a powerful leader at work,even if someone's a natural
leader, because that domain,that innermost, tightest domain,
if it's being Think about itlike this the smallest personal
domain is our health.
If someone is super sickphysically, they can't show up
(34:30):
powerfully at home, they can'tshow up powerfully at work and
it continues to compound.
So I think what's cool is justhow you've been able to identify
this balance and synergy youget in your home world and how
that's kind of radiated outwardinto your teams and it compounds
.
And so the rockstar's reason Isay all this is because, as you
were going through places ofbeing stuck, you might want to
(34:52):
look outside your company.
Sometimes people get reallyfocused on, like why am I stuck
at the five locations?
Well, maybe it's something theydon't know that they don't know
, so they could use coaching orwhatever.
But maybe there's somethinginternal, in their home
environment or even in theirpersonal world, mentally, that
needs to get addressed.
I went through EMDR therapy it'slike a psychology kind of thing
(35:14):
once and I helped overcome somemental trauma that occurred to
me when I was in high schoolFell off a mountain, rock
climbing, broke my arms and legs.
I talk about it all the time,but I remember when there was a
shift in there and I rememberfeeling this release and then
when I had my PT practices thenext week, all my stats started
going up, everything startedgetting better and I was like,
(35:36):
oh, there's no way, there's not.
That's a correlation.
It was like because I startedto pace the leader, pace the
pack, like how the leader showsup is how everyone shows up.
So if we can take care ofourselves, we are able and our
families and our families aretaking care of us we can
continue to radiate outward.
What do you do to take care ofyourself, lance?
Are there any things you domentally, physically?
(35:58):
No, there's no way.
That's a no.
Do you exercise or eat clean orany of that?
Speaker 2 (36:13):
I eat clean.
I do.
I eat clean.
I don't.
Yeah, I eat super clean, likeeverything's healthy.
I don't eat any dairy, I don'teat.
You know, I don't drink likewater is all I drink, that's it.
I don't drink any sodas orcaffeine or nothing.
I don't eat any dairy.
I don't drink.
Water is all I drink, that's it.
I don't drink any sodas orcaffeine or nothing.
I used to drink caffeine likecrazy.
I mean, I used to drink, like Acouple years ago, 12-pack of
Diet Mountain Dew a day.
Was pretty easy for me, dietMountain Dew, right.
So I quit all that.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
So you were hitting the caffeine, but you eat clean,
do you exercise?
You read books, read books andself-care.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
I read books a little bit.
I don't.
I don't exercise very much, Ireally don't.
I do a little bit.
I should do more.
Yeah, I do a little.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
I'm trying to take care of myself a little bit more
.
You know, I'm 53 years old, soit's time to start doing a
little something to maintain myhealth I guess a little better.
So I probably need to startthat.
Maybe I'll start tomorrow.
It's so fun to talk to you too.
I've been in a businessnetworking group for 20 years
called EO, and there's thesehyper achievers and these are
(37:07):
guys and girls that runtriathlons and they run their
multi-billion dollar businessand they're like you know, it's
just like it's so, it's sooverwhelming and it's not who I
am.
I want to be more like a LanceGross, where I'm just like, yeah
, I just do some things and Ijust care, and as long as
everyone's happy, we're makingmoney.
I think that's.
There's an ease of life aroundthat that helps us enjoy the
(37:27):
here and now, because what's thepoint if we're just constantly
trying to push for the nextsuccess?
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Yep.
So yeah, I've never raised myvoice at a single person that
works for us.
I've never had.
I don't.
I don't lose my temper, I don'tdo that.
I'm very like just even keelall the time.
Maybe it's to a fault so muchPeople can't read my emotions
Some cause I'm just like you'rehappy or you said we can't tell
(37:55):
you're a good day or a bad day.
What is it a great day?
They're like we couldn't tell.
I'm like well, it is, andthat's the truth.
I can do better than that.
I can do better.
I can give people a high five.
I do that when I walk intoclinics hey, how's it going
today, how's the wife and kidsdoing?
Speaker 1 (38:15):
I'm not really that, I'm just by the way, I see,
truly the most successfulleaders I've met are ones who
are even keel.
My wife is even keel.
I am not.
What's hard about me is thatI'll go into my team and I'll be
like your favorite person.
I'm like dude, let's going todo this.
We're going to take over theworld and we're going to be
billionaires and save the world.
And the next day I'm having anaverage day and people are like
(38:36):
dude Will's pissed, like no.
I'm just not as hyped as.
I think there's another lessonin leadership about trying to
provide consistency around that.
What would you say your teamwould say are the best qualities
of your business?
What would you say that yourteam would say is the best few
(38:56):
items?
That they would say are thebest parts of your company?
Stability.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
I think the stability of it and the fact that they
know that I've got their back,no matter what in in situations
People that have been with her along time know that say no, I'm
, I'm a hundred percent pro themand going to take care of them
for whatever.
Whatever situation they're in,whether it's work life or
personal life, I'm going to tryto help them get get through
(39:20):
that or give them the time orspace to get through that or
whatever I need to do.
But I think the stability of it.
They just know it's a stableplace and they feel like I'm a
stable person, that I'm notgoing to lead them off a cliff.
I mean, there's a joke all thetime that they're going to
follow me off a cliff if I gooff a cliff.
So we were in Orlando at aconference a while back and
(39:41):
there were several of us 12 ofus at a conference and we went
to walk to dinner one night andI said well, I know where we're
going, we'll go.
Well, I took a wrong turn andthey just followed me just down
the road.
That's something like astanding joke.
We just followed you the wrongdirection and half of them were
like no, it's over here.
I'm like nope, he must knowlet's follow him.
So yeah, so it's only my fault.
So we ended up having to Uberfrom where we're instead of
walking.
But yeah, so that's been a longjoke with us for a couple of
(40:02):
years now.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Yeah, it's interesting that you would say
that they would say you havetheir back, and what does that
result in?
It has them having your back.
It's funny how, when we committo people, how they just would
follow.
Following is more aboutcommitting to them, but I think
there's also something.
This is something.
I think there's a balancingcounterpoint to this is that
(40:24):
I've been so employee-focusedthat I've put their needs above
the company.
I've done that by accident,where I'm like, well, they're
working hard, I'm going to givethem more money and I don't know
my numbers and I actually takeus into an unprofitable state
because I'm trying to be in thatdecision matrix.
I'm putting them above thecompany.
So I think part of thestability that you create is
(40:46):
that the priority is that what'sbest for the company than the
employees, because those thingshave to be done in that order.
So I think that's interestingthat they would say that.
What would you say are yourfavorite aspects of your team?
What would you say that youlove most about the people and
the leaders that you get to workwith?
Speaker 2 (41:06):
I think it's just their willingness to not follow,
but willingness to all right myideas and things, their
willingness to jump on board andgo.
So as we're rowing the boat,they're all rowing the same
direction, if that makes sense.
So that's.
I think that's a big one for me.
They're all in.
It sounds like they're all inPretty much as far as I know.
Maybe somebody's not all in,but I think they're all in.
(41:26):
So you know.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
They've convinced you if they're not, they've got me
fooled.
And what really matters at thatpoint, because if they've
convinced you and you feel thatthat's great because that says a
lot about them.
That says a lot about them thatthey are the type of people who
are willing to put theirshoulder to the wheel and push
and just make it happen, that'samazing.
(41:49):
Yep, yeah, well, I love it.
Well, listen, lance, it hasbeen a joy to be with you.
This episode has covered somany wonderful aspects of
leadership.
What would be some top bookrecommendations you would make
for our audience?
Speaker 2 (42:01):
So who, not how, who not how for sure.
And that's going to coverutsnot only in your work, that's
going to cover gamuts in yourpersonal life and all kinds of
things.
I mean from your lawnmower toyour and all that stuff.
I'm serious, so that's a greatone.
Um, the one minute manager isgood.
If you ever read that one,that's a great book.
Um, simplifies things down.
(42:21):
That one probably impacted ourleadership group a lot and they
all took away from that andstarted implementing those
things in their own clinics andit's, yeah, that's a good one.
So that's I would.
Let's go with those two for nowfor sure.
One Minute Manager and who, nothow for sure.
For those there's some otherfinancial books that are real
(42:42):
boring, but I recommend but yeah, and then 21,.
If you're a John Maxwell fan ornot, the 21 Irrefutable Laws of
Leadership.
That's probably a littlesidebar here.
If you guys, I got a second,that's probably that's the very
first leadership book I everread in my life, and that was.
I read that probably 20 yearsago now because I was a young,
(43:03):
new graduate, got out of schoollooking for something to do,
looking for ways to make money,and I got involved with Amway.
So no way right.
So I never made any money withAmway at all, but the leadership
stuff they taught me probablypropelled me to where I'm at now
.
So that was kind of the startand foundation.
So that was one of the firstbooks I ever read for leadership
and I've read it like fourtimes since then.
(43:27):
So people that are watchingthis are thinking do you think
I'm an avid reader?
Not avid reader, I'm a goodlistener.
I like to do most of my stuffon Audible so I don't want to
sit down with a paper book usingread too much.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
Yeah, it's funny how people I think that's a key
thing, rockstars, I want you tohear this is that people forget
that everyone learns differently.
There's a guy by the name ofGary Vaynerchuk, gary V.
He's a huge, successfulinfluencer business.
His big thing is social mediaand marketing.
He's like the world's greatestat it and he was on stage.
He's written like all thesebestsellers.
He's like I wouldn't read myown books.
(43:56):
I don't read books.
I don't even think he listensto Audible, but it's like
there's people who have to readthe books.
There's people who read andlisten.
There's people who watch videos, there's podcasts it doesn't
matter, but the idea is to justbe doing something there.
As a side note, people whoprobably don't know what Amway
(44:19):
is Amway was the mother of allmulti-level marketing schemes
and I once sat on a plane, lance, where the guy next to me had
jewelry on his hands, like hewas like an old king from old
England, like he just had thesegiant and every finger and stuff
.
And he was an older guy at thetime.
For me I was probably in my 30s, he was probably only in his
60s, but he felt older to me andhe just had all this jewelry
(44:41):
like almost like so pimped out.
It was crazy.
And he just started talking tome and I was like, so what do
you do?
And he's like I just getdegrees, I have five doctorates
and I'm like really, he's like,yeah, I was one of the third
guys and one of the first guysin Amway.
Yeah, he just made so muchmoney.
But anyway, like that's kind ofa worthless story, but the idea
being that, like you, you tookthose 21 principles and have
(45:03):
been applying them and growingthem, so I think that's an
incredibly useful tool.
It sounds like it reallyimpacted you For sure.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
All right.
Well, dude, thank you so muchfor being on the show.
We're definitely gonna have tohave you back and do an update
on these new locations thatyou're building out.
And yeah, man, thank you somuch for being on the show.
Thanks, Will.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
Appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
Appreciate it.
Thank you for listening,Rockstars.
And if you're one of the manymedical professionals and
leaders who have had it dealingwith the drama of hiring and
training people that you thinkare overpriced, then let's think
about how virtual assistantscan offload you to do what you
love, which is changing people'slives.
In the show notes there's alink to jump on our calendar so
that we can show you why.
(45:41):
Linkedin shows that virtualassistants is the second fastest
growing trend in healthcare,next to artificial intelligence.
At no obligation, we'll see ifthis is a fit for you.
I hope to talk to you soon.
Hello and welcome back.
Rock stars.
So grateful to have you tuningin today's special episode with
Lance Gross.
Lance Gross is a masterphysical therapy practice owner.
He went from one location to 20locations in seven years and
he's opening four more in thenext year.
So we're going to talk aboutrecruiting and retaining at a
level that is going to be mindblowing.
(00:24):
What's really cool about thisepisode is that it's very simple
.
When you hear how he grows,it's going to release stress
from you, because I thinkoftentimes we end up holding
tightly these things becausethey are so hard and all these
things.
You're going to hear how Lancehas very simply addressed these
issues through a mindset shiftthat anyone can make.
(00:44):
So, whether you have onelocation or 50 locations, this
episode is going to be essentialto help you not only just
recruit and retain better, butit's going to help you shift the
way you see your business.
Enjoy the show.
Okay.
So, lance, you started yourfirst practice six and a half
years ago.
You have 20 today.
I'm sure that, along with thattype of rapid growth, there's
(01:08):
been some incredible shifts inyour mindset.
What are some of those mindsetsLike?
What's a mindset shift that hasoccurred for you and your team.
That has been evident in yourgrowth.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
I would say, when we first started our first clinic
six and a half years ago, wewere obviously thinking we're
going to build this clinic,we're going to make lots of
money, we're going to servepatients, we're going to take
care of these patients, we'regoing to make all the patients
super happy.
And over time you realizethat's not the case From one
practice.
You don't make a ton of money.
You don't make every patienthappy.
Sometimes your team membersaren't as happy.
(01:40):
So as we've grown and movedalong and added more things,
it's become, especially the lasttwo years, a huge shift in our
mindset.
Where we were at first we wereworried about making every
patient happy, patientsatisfaction all the same, and
not really taking care of ourteam so much, not really taking
care of our team members.
So they were kind of getting,you know, work harder, work
harder, work harder.
(02:01):
You know, not a lot of positiveenergy feedback to them, not a
bunch of negative either, butnot a lot of you know, not a lot
of pats on the back goingaround.
So over the last couple of yearswe've changed our mindset to
more mentorship and moreeducation and more leadership
training for our team membersand not really worried about the
patient so much, because if ourteam is happy, the patients are
happy.
So if they're smiling faces,they're energetic, they're
(02:23):
enthused to be there, thepatients pick up on that and
they all stay happy.
So we really strive to make.
I tell our team all the time Iwant this to be your favorite
place to work.
So we want to make sure thatyou want to work here forever,
Like this is your career, notjust a job hopping.
This is where I want to stayforever, because I'm happy doing
what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Lance, I think what's so powerful about that is that
when I coach across the country,most of my clients get super
stuck around one area and that'srecruiting.
So it's interesting that for aguy in Arkansas, there's not
like a billion PT schoolsfloating around out there.
It's not like you have.
For you to grow, you have tohave a unique strategy.
(03:03):
That is not really something ofa strategy, as much as just a
mindset shift, which is thatyou're not so hyper-focused on
just patient care being theprimaries.
And again, it's not that you'reneglecting that.
You're saying my team is myfocus, building an experience
for employees that makes themsuper happy to come to work
every day.
Like you said, you want them towake up every day happy to come
(03:23):
to work every day.
Like you said, you want them towake up every day excited to
come to your company.
How did you discover thatmindset shift?
What occurred for you aroundthat?
Speaker 2 (03:32):
You know it's a multitude of things.
So I you know I plug into somethings that you talk about and
other folks talk about.
I think it was just aconglomerate of all that stuff
and kind of sitting back andlooking and, to be honest, the
first week when you havemultiple clinics, we had the
first four or five.
Managing five clinics is verydifficult because they really
have to be efficient and have tobe generating revenue in order
(03:53):
to keep things going.
But once you get more than that, it becomes a little easier
because each clinic doesn't haveto be they don't have to be the
breadwinner, they just got tobe a little successful.
And as long as they're a littlesuccessful, people that work at
that clinic are happy, and I'mnot, you know, you're not so
demanding on them, I guess, asto be productive, if that makes
sense.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
There's not so much pressure, like I hear what
you're saying.
See, I never had more than fiveand I remember those days of
like everyone's got to pull,we've got to maximize
profitability at do it right,because there was no middle
ground.
It was like either we weremaximally productive and
profitable or not at all.
This whole thing about when youhave five locations the
(04:32):
profitability expectations areso big it makes you put pressure
on the team almost because youhave no choice.
But when you're getting biggeryou get past that because you
get the accumulation of marginalgains that start to allow you
to focus on the team and notworry so much about the minor
ebbs and flows of profitability.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
That that's correct and it's no doubt I was telling
someone the other day because wewere we have the 20 clinics now
and we're opening four morewithin the next three or four
weeks depending, depending onwhen the construction gets done.
You know how it goes.
We're remodeling, we're at themercy of contractors at the
moment, but so sometime beforethe end of february we'll have
four more.
And someone asked me the otherday, like how do you do that?
I said actually it's, it'sbecome easy now, like it's
(05:05):
easier.
It's way easier to open clinicsnow than it was five, six years
ago.
We have a system in place.
We go over that way.
We know how to set theequipment up, we know how to get
the place set up and the teammembers are the important part.
So we don't ever we've neversomething unique about us.
We've never opened a clinic andthen tried to find team members
.
We have the team members firstbefore we open the clinic.
(05:26):
So we have team members, atherapist that comes and works
for us for a year or two yearsand starts expressing management
opportunities and exemplifiesthe leadership skills, and we
kind of mentor them and say,okay, where would you if you had
your own clinic?
Where would you want to put itand they say, oh, I don't want
to put it here, and then we golook in there, then we put them
(05:48):
a clinic there and then theytake off and manage that clinic.
Amazing.
So all of our clinics havegrown from inside and out.
So we haven't ever gone out andput a clinic in and had to hire
someone to fill it.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Guys okay, rock stars , this is mind-blowing Pay very
close attention to thebrilliance of what you.
So Dan Sullivan said it in adifferent way in a book called
who, not how, we grow around who.
You love that book?
Yeah, it's great, it's.
For me, that was transitionalbecause, like normally as an
entrepreneur, I get like theshiny object syndrome.
I want to go build all theseideas, but the truth is I want
(06:15):
to build people and the peoplebecome the determinants of what
the strategy is.
So, like you know, obviouslythere's some limitations.
Like you wouldn't go nurture anengineer at this point, you
would stay in the physicaltherapy realm, since that's your
business.
But, guys, rock stars, thisidea about like growing around
who, not how, here's one thing Iwant you to hear is that Lance
is able to recruit powerfullybecause he's not needy.
(06:37):
He has this success that hasaccumulated over time In my mind
the thought I have Lance isslow, is fast and fast is slow
Because if you had startedsaying I'm going to open 20
clinics this year and then tryto recruit for that, it would
have gone much slower, morepainful.
But what you did was like let'sjust go one clinic at a time,
(06:57):
let's focus on the team abovethe patient, as you've realized
that.
And then you attract betterpeople who grow.
And, as you've realized that,and then you attract better
people who grow, and then, whenthey're ready, you start more
locations and it's thisexponential compounding effect
of growth.
So, because most of the people,lance, I work with, they're so
desperate for PTs yesterday orthey want to sell because
they're so done.
They've been treating for 40years and they just want out but
(07:20):
they've never recognized and,by the way, don't feel bad if
that's you listeners, rock stars, don't feel bad.
That was me for years.
I didn't do 20 clicks in thattimeframe.
It took me 15 years to get tomy five.
So it's not the age, it's thestage of learning.
So now that we've learned thisconcept, let's really drive that
in of building around the rightwho's.
Because, yeah, lance, what Iwould love to hear from you a
(07:43):
little bit now is, like, what doyou guys do for recruiting?
Like, how does that work?
Speaker 2 (07:47):
for your company, so we recruit from.
We have five physical therapyschools in Arkansas, so we
recruit from them, of course,but most of our recruiting comes
from word of mouth, honestly,from someone that works with us
knows someone else that workssomewhere else and they say, hey
, this is a pretty good gig overhere, this state trade is
pretty good.
I would say 99% of ourrecruiting comes from our own
(08:07):
team members recruiting someoneelse to come work for us.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
And do they come from out of state or is it mostly
from Arkansas, mostly from?
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Arkansas, yeah.
So we try our best and I don'tthink we've ever I don't think
we've ever recruited someonefrom out of state.
For us is local, which isanother kind of beauty that
works with our.
So someone that is from, let'ssay, smithville, that works for
us.
They grew up in Smithville andthey work for us for a year or
(08:33):
two and say, hey, I'd like toput a clinic of my own in
Smithville, then that's theperfect fit, because that person
is from there, they have rootsthere and that's their clinic in
their town.
So that's that's.
That's the whole gist of whatwe've done.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Well, I love this conversation because the next
questions are going to be.
I can hear my audience likewell, what does he do to take
care of his team?
So we'll get into that.
But here's what's funny, lance,is I've coached people in
Arkansas in recruitingspecifically, and it's such an
amazing difference what mindsetmakes, because I've heard the
same facts that you justmentioned as reasons why they
can't recruit.
They're like well, I can'trecruit unless they're from
(09:06):
Arkansas and it's this tinylittle state and there's only
five schools and, frankly, theyjust start listing all the same
things that you just said howyou recruit.
Well, are the reasons why othercompanies I know have told me
why they can't recruit.
Well, it's just, this idea offocusing on team has put you
guys in a position to where itstarted to snowball.
Your brand has started tocompound as you've made impacts.
(09:29):
So that would be a great toolfor all the listeners is what
are you doing with your people?
Your mindset is focused onhelping them get excited about
coming to work every day.
What do you do with your teamsso that they do wake up excited
to come to work every day?
And then, you know, down theroad, tell their friends to come
work for you?
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Not to get too far into depth of that, but we do.
We do pay very well.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
So that makes it.
That makes it.
That makes a difference, forsure.
But we also our leadership,mentorship training.
We have unlimited access tocontinue education.
So we have no limit on CEUs orfurther education or
certification.
So anybody that works for usthat comes to us and says I want
to get certified in this ortraining this, we pay for it.
(10:13):
And unless they come and say,hey, I want to do this three
week course in Hawaii, we're not, you know, we're not doing that
, but within reason, withinreasons that we do that, and yes
, I don't.
And yes, there's no telling howmany certifications we paid for
this past year and how many CEUhours our staff earned.
Most of them did well over 30or 40 continuing education hours
(10:34):
this past year.
Whoa, I paid for best.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
So that Con Ed is really big for students in
particular because they'recoming out and they're looking
for leadership.
But it's not just the Con Ed.
I think that's a cool,attractive thing.
But I think, lance, it's thisleadership program as well.
Like it sounds like you'regiving them a path to the future
of what that is.
So is that like when you sayleadership, is that like
directorship, or is it more justgeneral leadership?
Speaker 2 (10:57):
So a little bit of both.
So we do a general leadership.
We have a leaders group.
So the managers are all ourleaders.
We call them our leaders group.
They're all the leaders.
We do a once-a-week meetingwith them.
It's a Zoom meeting.
It just lasts 45 minutes to anhour each week.
We talk about topics of theweek, what's been going on in
the clinics.
We also do a leadership.
(11:18):
We call it our book club.
We read the same book and thenwe are talking about it.
So right now we're workingthrough, we're working through a
John Maxwell's 21 irrefutablelaws.
So we're working once a week.
We do one law a week, kind ofgo over that.
And then we've done a couple ofother books.
So and we'll do that in thefuture, so anyway, then they
take that training and take itback to their local team at
their clinic and then theyimplement.
(11:41):
So I'm helping train theleaders and they're training
their teams individually.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Guys.
So this has been talking to theRockstars audience.
Listen, look how simple that is, but how powerful it is.
I think where we getoverwhelmed sometimes, lance, is
this idea that leadershipprograms need to be super thick
and meaty and we have to buildthem out first.
It feels like you're buildingthe plane as you're flying it
with a leadership program whereit's like hey, let's pick, let's
(12:06):
pick.
Why are you laughing?
Speaker 2 (12:08):
That's how I do everything.
So that's how I do everything.
Literally, it's like I havethis idea and we just do it.
And my wife, my wife's also aPT, but she doesn't practice
anymore.
She, she actually runs thebusiness part, so she takes care
of, you know, all the newclinics.
And just come on this hair,brain, ideas, and she's like we
can't do that.
I'm like, oh, you probably can,let's do that.
Yeah, that's.
And if you're asking me,anybody that's been working for
(12:28):
with me for a long time.
I have several employees thathave been with me for 15 or 20
years because we had some otheranother therapy business before
the clinic.
Anyway, they all know thatabout me like they've, oh,
here's another idea, we're goingto do it.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
And sometimes they work out, sometimes they don't
but you do it together and youimplement quickly.
And I think what's brilliantabout your leadership program,
lance and I want the rock starsto pay attention is this idea
that you're taking it justsomething simple, like a book
and everyone reads a section ofthe book and you call it your
book club.
But one of my favorite quotes Iever heard was from a mentor
(13:00):
who said that who we are in fiveyears is a combination of what
we read and who we associate themost with.
And it's so true, like thebooks we read.
So you're developing this teamin a very step-by-step way of
like the 21,.
What was it?
Irrefutable laws, irrefutablelaws.
I've heard of that book.
It can never say irrefutable,but like, that week-to-week
(13:20):
process is so simple right, it'slike, but then how does the big
changes occur?
It's always like these smalland simple, but consistent.
I think the thing I hear in youis consistent changes.
So, rockstars, as you'relistening, what are the things
that you could implement thatare small but you could do
(13:40):
consistently?
Is it a book club, where youjust everyone reads a book and
you talk about it?
Is it something else, like anonline program or a training
course?
Is it listening to the samepodcasts.
What is that for you guys, asyou're listening For Lance?
For you, how do you pick yourbooks and stuff?
How do you determine the bookclub content?
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Mostly recommendations from guys like
you and people I listen to andpeople I talk to, that I
associate with.
That are other leaders in thetherapy world, mostly in the
therapy world.
So it's been recommendations,you know, I think.
I actually think you gave methe book who, Not how.
I'm pretty sure you did.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Oh yeah, I forgot when we first met.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
So I read it, I read it once and I'm actually reading
it again right now, the secondtime through.
I said, of course it's betterthan the first time, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Well, and that's why you're such a successful leader.
You've read the book twice.
I've only read it once, and Ithink that's amazing.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
I'm only halfway through the second time, so I
haven't quite got it twice yet.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Man, I love this idea .
So one thing that you said too,lance, I want to talk.
I want to hit on really quick.
People leave our companies.
According to LinkedIn, over 86%88% of our people who leave us
it's because they don't see afuture in it.
So it feels like between thisunlimited con ed concept and
this constant leadershipdevelopment, plus you open
(14:56):
clinics, that's the other thingis, if I was working for you,
I'm getting paid well, I'm alsogetting nurtured, I'm getting
like this, this idea of like Icould go, I could go be a
director of a clinic one day andthen I get to go join this
elite group of cool people.
So you know, how do you filterout?
How do you know?
How do you guys filter outpeople who aren't a fit for your
(15:18):
company?
How do you recruit or what doyou do in a way that prevents
people who, who could disruptthat, that beautiful thing that
you're building?
Speaker 2 (15:27):
So we've been really lucky, that kind of like I said
earlier, most, most everyone allthe therapists, clinicians that
work with us knew someone thatworks for us before.
So they we have already got arelationship, so there's a
history, they know.
They know them personallyalready before they come on our
team.
So we have very few people thatjust came to us organically.
They just applied for the job.
We have very few of those.
(15:47):
Most of them we knew ahead oftime.
We've had this.
This will blow your mind and itblows everybody's mind.
I'm telling this.
Since the last six and a halfyears, we've only had one
clinician leave us.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
I have to sit down.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Right, right Is that and it was.
It was one of those.
Yeah, but only one is left.
Clinician has left us.
We, of course, we lose, youknow, ancillary staff that come
and go.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Yeah, but the core team, the core PTs, all those
people you've lost one person insix and a half years, right?
Speaker 2 (16:25):
What would for retention would be then.
So, like I mentioned, most ofour team are local.
Whatever town they work in,whether clinic is, that's where
they grew up and they live andthey have roots there.
Their husband's there, theirfamily's there, their wife is
there, their parents are there,so they have no reason to leave.
And then the incentives that wehave as far as pay goes, and
then the education we give them.
If they're going to be atherapist, there's no better
place to be a therapist, andthat's kind of that's what we
want.
We want to.
If you're going to practicephysical or occupational therapy
(16:46):
in Arkansas, the only bestplace to be is a GTS.
That's the best place you coulddo it at.
So that's, that's what wereally strive for.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Amazing.
Do you?
Have you worked with anycoaches along this journey for
you?
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Nope, no coaches.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Okay, so you're probably listening going Will
you say all the time that youshould always have a coach.
Well, listen, I will tell youthis organically when it comes
to leadership, there arenatural-born leaders and there's
everybody else.
The natural-borns are very fewand far between, and, lance, I'm
going to make you feel bad, butyou're one of those
natural-born leaders.
You're one of those that mybrother-in-law is the same way.
He's this guy who dropped outof college.
(17:22):
He's never had a coach, and hehas the third largest pest
control company in the country.
It's massive.
I was a keynote speaker at hisinternal event for two years in
a row.
There's hundreds of people athis own company event that are
just the leaders.
They're not the employees.
It's the local clinic directortypes for his pest control
(17:43):
company, and there's just peoplewho kind of see it.
What's like?
The local clinic director typesfor his pest control company,
and there's just people who kindof see it.
What's fun about talking tonatural leaders like you, though
, lance, is this idea that youjust see it so simply that you
spell it out really cleanly,this idea of what's the secret
to retention.
Well, there's no real secretwhen you're building around the
right people, because the rightpeople attract the right people.
So what's your secret forrecruiting?
Well, we started with the rightpeople and we incentivize them,
(18:07):
so we love on them so well, wenurture them so well that they
tell their friends, and so it'screated this snowball effect.
So guys like me, we might.
We just we have to grind alittle bit harder to figure that
out.
But that's what's beautiful, isthat anyone can do it.
So I want rock stars who arelistening that to feel
intimidated, because that is nota that's not a typical path.
(18:27):
But you, you've also put yourwhole heart and focus on this,
and I think that's what'sbeautiful.
It's not just because it wasnatural for you Doesn't mean
it's been easy.
You've gone through some reallychallenging times, I'm sure.
Yes.
Oh yeah, Of course there's butit is interesting because you're
in the top 1% of all the peopleI've met and I think that's
what's great, for my audience isto hear this.
So what are some of thosechallenges that you've overcome
(18:49):
In the growth of going from?
That is super fast, going fromzero to 20 in seven years really
seven, probably 24 in sevenyears.
What are some of the keychallenges that you've
experienced along that way?
Speaker 2 (19:03):
So I think just the knowledge, maybe the knowledge
base, of how to actually run anoutpatient therapy clinic.
I didn't really know how to dothat.
You know, I'd been a therapistfor 28 years now, so 20
something years when we openedour first clinic never had an
app and never had a clinicbefore ever, and just the ins
and outs of actually how to dothat, how to actually run a
clinic with the credentialingand the hiring and insurance and
(19:26):
just all those things we had tolearn at first.
And it was a struggle.
We had five clinics we had open.
We went five clinics the firstyear and they all opened within
like six months of each other.
So we had a core of five clinicsfor about two years and for
that two years it was a struggle, like mental, financial,
everything.
There was no, there was nomoney being made, there was no,
(19:46):
we were just pouring money outdoing this and finally it
started.
Everything started clicking andthen since then it's been much,
much easier and that a lot ofit was my personal growth.
I just I just didn't know howto handle all that at first Much
better not great at it yet, butmuch better than I was then.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Hey, rockstars, are you having a challenging time
recruiting, retaining ortraining your people?
Then, man, am I excited to tellyou about the Rockstar Summit.
Guys, this is my personal eventthat we are launching on March
1st and 2nd.
It is going to be two full daysof nothing but workshops on how
to solve recruiting, trainingand retaining problems.
(20:26):
It's very heavy on therecruiting side.
We're going to show you whereto find candidates that no one
else is accessing, so that youcan get a leg up in the industry
and grow the business that youdeserve.
So again, that's March 1st and2nd.
Please go towwwrockstar-summitcom to learn
all about the details.
(20:46):
I will be there in personteaching some of the classes,
but we have experts from acrossthe country coming as well.
You do not want to miss it.
I hope to see you there.
As you're talking, lance, what'sclear for me is the difference
between mindset and skill set.
I think one thing that, aswe're talking about, I feel like
I'm embarrassing you Like thisnatural leadership you have is
mostly tied to your mindset.
(21:07):
I think that's what makes youpowerful is this idea that you
have a natural way of justseeing things from an optimistic
, growth-minded set, but youstill hit limitations on your
skillset and that's the thing.
Like there are ways that wethere are things that we have to
learn.
So even you, you have to readbooks.
You know you go to conferenceslike everybody else and that's
(21:28):
where you learned your.
Actually I'm putting words inyour mouth when did you learn
the skillset when you were atthat level, when you were stuck
with your five locations?
Where did you go to learn whatyou needed to learn?
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Just plugged into a couple of conferences and groups
and things.
I'm not going to name names ornot, but I did that.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Oh, go for it.
Mention names Plug anythingthat these people can hear and
go.
Why should join those groups?
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Right.
So the first one was pluggedinto Breakthrough with Chad
Madden and his group.
Love that guy, Love that group.
And I've been three years nowwith them and I've only missed
one conference because my wifewould let me go at wedding
anniversary.
She's like no, you're not going.
I'm like okay, so you know howthat goes.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Wedding anniversary Smart woman.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Right, so smart guy, I just got to stay at home, so
maybe I'm just kidding, butanyway I've missed one of those.
I've done some other reading,listened to you talk and talked
to you not enough times butseveral times, and it's helped
tremendously.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Well, I've learned a lot from you too.
I think that's the cool thingabout leadership journeys.
It's kind of like your team,right, your team is in there
reading books together andlearning together, and everyone
brings something special anddifferent to the table that they
can grow from.
And that's my favorite part ofthis journey.
For me is being able to rubelbows with guys like you, like
truly.
When we met it was like wow,he's accomplished something in
(22:42):
your space.
I was in your space.
I never got to that level, soyou have this like influence as
well, so we can all just takewhat we've come from with our
own specialties and rock stars.
As you're listening, you mightbe thinking oh, I don't have
anything, bull crap.
I've met.
Some of the most powerfulleaders I've met are actually
guys and girls who've only hadone location for 40 years, who
(23:03):
just have felt stuck.
Now they haven't realized thesame profits and there's some
unlocks that could really helpthem.
But I kid you, not one of myfavorite leaders of all time I
won't call him by name, but heis in Arkansas.
He's had this one practicepretty much his whole career,
but he has influenced theindustry 100%.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
I know who you're talking about?
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, tremendous person, tremendous,
one of my favorite humans.
I'm just going to mention him.
His name is Seth Coulter.
He is one of my favorite peopleon the planet.
He's had one location, but he'shelped build this network in
Arkansas.
That, I believe, is the modelfor how the whole industry
should be organized.
To fix the industry, like ifyou're basing it off of like
(23:44):
number of locations or money orgrowth, like that's just one way
to measure impact.
There's multiple ways tomeasure it.
So, rockstars, as you'relistening, just take what you
can from Lance and recognizethat, like, everyone has
something very special and Ireally believe that, lance and
clearly you do too, because youhave this team of people that
(24:06):
are growing you would have tobelieve in each person's ability
to contribute, otherwise youwould never grow.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
True.
Yeah, I truly let them do theirown thing if that makes sense.
So I give a little bit ofadvice and then let them do it.
So I have whatever thoselocations we have.
There's a few that I haven'tbeen to in over a year.
Honestly, I haven't evenvisited them.
I haven't even been there tosee them.
I've talked to them on thephone.
We do a Zoom meeting once aweek, but I actually step my
foot in the clinic.
I have not even been there.
(24:30):
I don't typically do muchtreatment in the clinics.
I do one of the clinics that'sclose to my house.
I do a couple evaluations aweek there.
I do some home visits stillhome health stuff.
I'm practicing.
So I practice every day.
I see patients every day, butnot like near like I used to, of
course.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
I love that.
You said that.
By the way, that was in yourintake bio for the podcast, and
I wanted to hit on that becauseI've been guilty of saying, you
know, kind of overemphasizingthe need to get out of treating
because it's like this.
But I think what we're tryingto say when I say that is that
it's not a matter of stoptreating, it's a matter of start
(25:08):
leading so that, you know,people get so wrapped up in
their identity as providers thatthey get stuck.
And that's something that wesee commonly is like stop
looking for the cookies at theend of the treatment sessions
and start looking for the teamthat you can build.
But what's cool about whatyou've done is that you've been
able to build your company towhere you do what you want and
you still care, as a therapist,to develop those skill sets.
(25:29):
So you keep that as a part ofyour routine, but it's not at
the sacrifice of your company'sneeds.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Right.
That's probably been thehardest thing for me personally
is to try to step away fromtreating patients Like it's.
I know I need to.
I know I need to more because Iright now, right now, I
probably do oh, I know I do, Ido.
I do 15 to 20 evaluations aweek.
Wow, right, so that's what,that's what I, between home
health, typically do it a week.
But I need to get away fromthat more.
(25:55):
I really need to get away so Ihave more time to manage,
because it would give me moretime to manage the business.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Yeah, I think you're at that stage where need is
maybe not the right word onlybecause you're creating it so
intentionally.
Does your team look at thatpositively?
Does that influence your teamin a way where they see you as a
provider?
Oh, he still treats he's one ofus, or?
Speaker 2 (26:13):
is that kind of?
Speaker 1 (26:14):
irrelevant to them.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
It's important to some of them, I think.
I think it's part of them.
Part of them give me.
I get more respect from themand other people because I still
treat patients, I think.
And then there's part of themthat's worked for me for a long
time that are like stop treatingpatients, you need to stop.
They're telling me to back upsome and not do so much of this.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
So yeah, I can see it because I think the ones who
know you know you understandyour impact on them, Because
when you're not treating, whoare you thinking, who are you
working for?
You're really impacting theteam more than the patients if
you're not treating.
So I can see them the peoplewho really know you are like hey
, this is great, but when you'reover here in leadership, my
life keeps getting better and Iwant my life to get better, so
(26:52):
maybe you should stop treating.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Probably exactly they , so maybe you should stop
trading.
That's probably exactly.
They would probably agree withthat statement, I think.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Oh, that's great, Well, okay.
Well, listen you're, I don'tknow.
You feel to me like this guywho's been able to do what very
few have because of your team,and I want to make sure that, as
your team is listening to this,that this is a complete your
company experience.
Where are you guys going?
Like, 20 locations in sevenyears, 24 locations in seven
(27:19):
years is so phenomenal.
Do you guys have aspirations ofbeing a multi-state business or
are you just kind of likefiguring it out?
Are you still building theplane as you're flying it kind
of thing?
Speaker 2 (27:28):
One of our clinic.
We're opening a clinic inMissouri this month, february.
So we're multi-state, I guessgoing to be multi-state, so
we're multi-state, I guess goingto be multi-state, so right.
Which has turned into a wholebigger nightmare as far as
insurance credentialing than werealized it was going to be.
But that's the other thing.
So I don't really know.
People ask that all the time.
When we first started this Ididn't envision 20.
I didn't think six years ago wewere going to have 24 clinics.
(27:49):
That wasn't even my idea.
I thought we'd have four orfive and we'd be happy and
that'd be fine.
But as our leaders keep growinginside our group and they're
saying I want to have my ownclinic, that's how it all just
happened.
So I haven't really soughtafter it.
I haven't said, hey, let's opena clinic in this town.
Someone came to me and saidlet's open a clinic in this town
.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
I'm like, okay, let's do that, yeah, and isn't that
so much easier to just going tobe more intuitive with what's
already happening versus like,okay guys, we're going to be 80
clinics in five years?
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Yeah, no, my wife would kill me if we did that.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
I'd be on the front porch, so yeah, oh man, yeah, I
really feel that it'sinteresting because in my
journey when I had those fivelocations, I got that team
dialed in to where I was workingonly in recruiting and some
high-level leadership for about20 hours a week and I was busy
building that merger exit thingthat I created.
But my team was like, hey,let's go open 20 more clinics,
(28:44):
and they were the ones who wasdriving it.
I think that's when you knowyou've crossed that line of
reactive to proactive.
Growth is when your team istelling you where they want to
go.
And that's when I tapped outactually it's funny, lance,
because I wanted to do somethingmore for the industry kind of
facing the industry and that waswhen I was like, okay, this is
going beyond what works for me,but it sounds like for you you'd
(29:08):
be open to whatever it needs tolook like.
So if it's a few more great.
If it's 80, more great.
You're just kind of open.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Yep, yeah, if it's no more, great, but I don't think
it'll be that.
I mean these four we're openingnext month or next, whatever
there's going to be.
All those just came from onemeeting.
One day I said anybody want tohave another clinic?
And they're like yes, yes, yes,I do.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Yes, I do these four.
You already have the who's.
Yes, so how do you, sinceyou're so Rockstars as you're
listening?
I think the key takeaway withwhat we're talking about right
now is about being open.
You know, there's a balance, Ithink a dance that exists behind
having an intentional focus forgrowth but also being open to
what is, and so maybe there'skind of some letting go, Like,
(29:58):
once we create a vision for thefuture, which I still think is
valuable, what can we let go of?
And just be open to what's andpaying attention closely to
what's already happening aroundus.
So, Lance, since your vision ispretty open, how do you define
success for you and yourbusiness?
What is the criteria that youuse to determine what success
(30:20):
looks like?
Speaker 2 (30:21):
I think just honestly at this point in time, if my
team is happy, that kind ofsounds cliche but I think if
they're happy and we're notlosing money, then that's
successful.
So our brand in North Arkansashas become kind of I mean, we're
kind of known for the therapyin North Arkansas.
There's other great providers,of course.
I mean we're kind of known forthe therapy in North Arkansas.
There's other great providersof course here.
But we're kind of known as atherapy place.
(30:41):
Because we're drafting NorthArkansas, you're going to see
one of our clinics in every townalmost no-transcript, and
(31:06):
they're happy working there.
Honestly, that's it.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
What if all of our criteria for success was just
this balance of happiness?
Right, you know, instead oflike my sons, I have four boys
like as a parent, I coulddestroy my peace and my
happiness by having expectationsof them to being like
professional athletes orwhatever.
And again, I do think there'ssomething about having some
standards and expectations.
(31:30):
I don't think that's likesaying that we get rid of those,
but what if it was a matter oflike supporting people in their
journey to be happy andsuccessful?
And as long as they're doingwell in a team sense, then we're
all doing well.
And, like you said, there'scriteria profitability, it's not
like that.
You don't look at stats oranything.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
That's constant.
I mean I'm a whatever a numbersfreak-o.
I look at every day I'm a muchmore metrics every single day,
just to kind of see where we'reflowing and ebbing at and make
sure we're still just on track.
But it's not the driving forcethat makes us successful.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Yeah, it's how people feel, and if your team is happy
and feeling nurtured, the statsjust kind of take care of
themselves.
Yeah, like.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
I said at the first, when you first question you
asked I think it's that if theteam is happy working where
they're working, everything elsefalls into place.
Everything else just worksgreat.
So as long as they're happywhere they're working at, and
happy with their job, happy withtheir performance, happy with
me, everything else takes careof itself.
It really does.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
It's hard for me to not have these discussions and
take what I learn and apply themto other groups.
What I mean by that isorganizational health is
something that applies to allorganizations.
So when we're talking aboutyour company, lance, I think
about my family, I think aboutmy church organization, I think
(32:47):
about any group of people thatare coming together to form a
team, and as you're talkingabout happy team, it reminds me
of that phrase happy wife, happylife.
And it's true.
I think one thing that I haveparalleled with you is that I've
been very blessed to have amarriage that I feel very
content in and very happy in,and my wife tells me the same
and I don't have any reason todisbelieve her.
But I think it's becausethere's this balance that I see
(33:09):
that's the one place in my worldwhere I see a parallel.
I have this marriage where wereally do.
As long as I'm taking care ofher and helping her be nurtured,
she takes care of me, and it'sjust this beautiful, like back
and forth relationship behindthat.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
So we didn't talk about that.
But we're the same way.
My wife and I we're the same.
We were high school,sweethearts, college, like we're
the same, like we're the sameperson, and that's probably huge
, probably more benefit than werealize it is.
It's probably helps us moregrowing up doing the things we
do, that we have the supportfrom them and we think the same
and have the same ideals.
I joke about her gettingoverwhelmed, but she's fantastic
(33:45):
so I couldn't do this withouther.
There's no way.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Yeah, I think and, by the way, I think this is an
important lesson to hit for therock stars as well.
I think there's this concept,concept, so part of like your
natural, like you knowleadership we've talked about
and again I want to give yourfull team credit because I
recognize that you are areflection of these great people
that you've taken care of butthey've taken great care of you
back.
So you have this wonderfulsymbiotic relationship.
But it started in the home.
(34:08):
I from when there's problems inthe home, it's really hard to
be a powerful leader at work,even if someone's a natural
leader, because that domain,that innermost, tightest domain,
if it's being Think about itlike this the smallest personal
domain is our health.
If someone is super sickphysically, they can't show up
(34:30):
powerfully at home, they can'tshow up powerfully at work and
it continues to compound.
So I think what's cool is justhow you've been able to identify
this balance and synergy youget in your home world and how
that's kind of radiated outwardinto your teams and it compounds
.
And so the rockstar's reason Isay all this is because, as you
were going through places ofbeing stuck, you might want to
(34:52):
look outside your company.
Sometimes people get reallyfocused on, like why am I stuck
at the five locations?
Well, maybe it's something theydon't know that they don't know
, so they could use coaching orwhatever.
But maybe there's somethinginternal, in their home
environment or even in theirpersonal world, mentally, that
needs to get addressed.
I went through EMDR therapy it'slike a psychology kind of thing
(35:14):
once and I helped overcome somemental trauma that occurred to
me when I was in high schoolFell off a mountain, rock
climbing, broke my arms and legs.
I talk about it all the time,but I remember when there was a
shift in there and I rememberfeeling this release and then
when I had my PT practices thenext week, all my stats started
going up, everything startedgetting better and I was like,
(35:36):
oh, there's no way, there's not.
That's a correlation.
It was like because I startedto pace the leader, pace the
pack, like how the leader showsup is how everyone shows up.
So if we can take care ofourselves, we are able and our
families and our families aretaking care of us we can
continue to radiate outward.
What do you do to take care ofyourself, lance?
Are there any things you domentally, physically?
(35:58):
No, there's no way.
That's a no.
Do you exercise or eat clean orany of that?
Speaker 2 (36:13):
I eat clean.
I do.
I eat clean.
I don't.
Yeah, I eat super clean, likeeverything's healthy.
I don't eat any dairy, I don'teat.
You know, I don't drink likewater is all I drink, that's it.
I don't drink any sodas orcaffeine or nothing.
I don't eat any dairy.
I don't drink.
Water is all I drink, that's it.
I don't drink any sodas orcaffeine or nothing.
I used to drink caffeine likecrazy.
I mean, I used to drink, like Acouple years ago, 12-pack of
Diet Mountain Dew a day.
Was pretty easy for me, dietMountain Dew, right.
So I quit all that.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
So you were hitting the caffeine, but you eat clean,
do you exercise?
You read books, read books andself-care.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
I read books a little bit.
I don't.
I don't exercise very much, Ireally don't.
I do a little bit.
I should do more.
Yeah, I do a little.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
I'm trying to take care of myself a little bit more
.
You know, I'm 53 years old, soit's time to start doing a
little something to maintain myhealth I guess a little better.
So I probably need to startthat.
Maybe I'll start tomorrow.
It's so fun to talk to you too.
I've been in a businessnetworking group for 20 years
called EO, and there's thesehyper achievers and these are
(37:07):
guys and girls that runtriathlons and they run their
multi-billion dollar businessand they're like you know, it's
just like it's so, it's sooverwhelming and it's not who I
am.
I want to be more like a LanceGross, where I'm just like, yeah
, I just do some things and Ijust care, and as long as
everyone's happy, we're makingmoney.
I think that's.
There's an ease of life aroundthat that helps us enjoy the
(37:27):
here and now, because what's thepoint if we're just constantly
trying to push for the nextsuccess?
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Yep.
So yeah, I've never raised myvoice at a single person that
works for us.
I've never had.
I don't.
I don't lose my temper, I don'tdo that.
I'm very like just even keelall the time.
Maybe it's to a fault so muchPeople can't read my emotions
Some cause I'm just like you'rehappy or you said we can't tell
(37:55):
you're a good day or a bad day.
What is it a great day?
They're like we couldn't tell.
I'm like well, it is, andthat's the truth.
I can do better than that.
I can do better.
I can give people a high five.
I do that when I walk intoclinics hey, how's it going
today, how's the wife and kidsdoing?
Speaker 1 (38:15):
I'm not really that, I'm just by the way, I see,
truly the most successfulleaders I've met are ones who
are even keel.
My wife is even keel.
I am not.
What's hard about me is thatI'll go into my team and I'll be
like your favorite person.
I'm like dude, let's going todo this.
We're going to take over theworld and we're going to be
billionaires and save the world.
And the next day I'm having anaverage day and people are like
(38:36):
dude Will's pissed, like no.
I'm just not as hyped as.
I think there's another lessonin leadership about trying to
provide consistency around that.
What would you say your teamwould say are the best qualities
of your business?
What would you say that yourteam would say is the best few
(38:56):
items?
That they would say are thebest parts of your company?
Stability.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
I think the stability of it and the fact that they
know that I've got their back,no matter what in in situations
People that have been with her along time know that say no, I'm
, I'm a hundred percent pro themand going to take care of them
for whatever.
Whatever situation they're in,whether it's work life or
personal life, I'm going to tryto help them get get through
(39:20):
that or give them the time orspace to get through that or
whatever I need to do.
But I think the stability of it.
They just know it's a stableplace and they feel like I'm a
stable person, that I'm notgoing to lead them off a cliff.
I mean, there's a joke all thetime that they're going to
follow me off a cliff if I gooff a cliff.
So we were in Orlando at aconference a while back and
(39:41):
there were several of us 12 ofus at a conference and we went
to walk to dinner one night andI said well, I know where we're
going, we'll go.
Well, I took a wrong turn andthey just followed me just down
the road.
That's something like astanding joke.
We just followed you the wrongdirection and half of them were
like no, it's over here.
I'm like nope, he must knowlet's follow him.
So yeah, so it's only my fault.
So we ended up having to Uberfrom where we're instead of
walking.
But yeah, so that's been a longjoke with us for a couple of
(40:02):
years now.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Yeah, it's interesting that you would say
that they would say you havetheir back, and what does that
result in?
It has them having your back.
It's funny how, when we committo people, how they just would
follow.
Following is more aboutcommitting to them, but I think
there's also something.
This is something.
I think there's a balancingcounterpoint to this is that
(40:24):
I've been so employee-focusedthat I've put their needs above
the company.
I've done that by accident,where I'm like, well, they're
working hard, I'm going to givethem more money and I don't know
my numbers and I actually takeus into an unprofitable state
because I'm trying to be in thatdecision matrix.
I'm putting them above thecompany.
So I think part of thestability that you create is
(40:46):
that the priority is that what'sbest for the company than the
employees, because those thingshave to be done in that order.
So I think that's interestingthat they would say that.
What would you say are yourfavorite aspects of your team?
What would you say that youlove most about the people and
the leaders that you get to workwith?
Speaker 2 (41:06):
I think it's just their willingness to not follow,
but willingness to all right myideas and things, their
willingness to jump on board andgo.
So as we're rowing the boat,they're all rowing the same
direction, if that makes sense.
So that's.
I think that's a big one for me.
They're all in.
It sounds like they're all inPretty much as far as I know.
Maybe somebody's not all in,but I think they're all in.
(41:26):
So you know.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
They've convinced you if they're not, they've got me
fooled.
And what really matters at thatpoint, because if they've
convinced you and you feel thatthat's great because that says a
lot about them.
That says a lot about them thatthey are the type of people who
are willing to put theirshoulder to the wheel and push
and just make it happen, that'samazing.
(41:49):
Yep, yeah, well, I love it.
Well, listen, lance, it hasbeen a joy to be with you.
This episode has covered somany wonderful aspects of
leadership.
What would be some top bookrecommendations you would make
for our audience?
Speaker 2 (42:01):
So who, not how, who not how for sure.
And that's going to coverutsnot only in your work, that's
going to cover gamuts in yourpersonal life and all kinds of
things.
I mean from your lawnmower toyour and all that stuff.
I'm serious, so that's a greatone.
Um, the one minute manager isgood.
If you ever read that one,that's a great book.
Um, simplifies things down.
(42:21):
That one probably impacted ourleadership group a lot and they
all took away from that andstarted implementing those
things in their own clinics andit's, yeah, that's a good one.
So that's I would.
Let's go with those two for nowfor sure.
One Minute Manager and who, nothow for sure.
For those there's some otherfinancial books that are real
(42:42):
boring, but I recommend but yeah, and then 21,.
If you're a John Maxwell fan ornot, the 21 Irrefutable Laws of
Leadership.
That's probably a littlesidebar here.
If you guys, I got a second,that's probably that's the very
first leadership book I everread in my life, and that was.
I read that probably 20 yearsago now because I was a young,
(43:03):
new graduate, got out of schoollooking for something to do,
looking for ways to make money,and I got involved with Amway.
So no way right.
So I never made any money withAmway at all, but the leadership
stuff they taught me probablypropelled me to where I'm at now
.
So that was kind of the startand foundation.
So that was one of the firstbooks I ever read for leadership
and I've read it like fourtimes since then.
(43:27):
So people that are watchingthis are thinking do you think
I'm an avid reader?
Not avid reader, I'm a goodlistener.
I like to do most of my stuffon Audible so I don't want to
sit down with a paper book usingread too much.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
Yeah, it's funny how people I think that's a key
thing, rockstars, I want you tohear this is that people forget
that everyone learns differently.
There's a guy by the name ofGary Vaynerchuk, gary V.
He's a huge, successfulinfluencer business.
His big thing is social mediaand marketing.
He's like the world's greatestat it and he was on stage.
He's written like all thesebestsellers.
He's like I wouldn't read myown books.
(43:56):
I don't read books.
I don't even think he listensto Audible, but it's like
there's people who have to readthe books.
There's people who read andlisten.
There's people who watch videos, there's podcasts it doesn't
matter, but the idea is to justbe doing something there.
As a side note, people whoprobably don't know what Amway
(44:19):
is Amway was the mother of allmulti-level marketing schemes
and I once sat on a plane, lance, where the guy next to me had
jewelry on his hands, like hewas like an old king from old
England, like he just had thesegiant and every finger and stuff
.
And he was an older guy at thetime.
For me I was probably in my 30s, he was probably only in his
60s, but he felt older to me andhe just had all this jewelry
(44:41):
like almost like so pimped out.
It was crazy.
And he just started talking tome and I was like, so what do
you do?
And he's like I just getdegrees, I have five doctorates
and I'm like really, he's like,yeah, I was one of the third
guys and one of the first guysin Amway.
Yeah, he just made so muchmoney.
But anyway, like that's kind ofa worthless story, but the idea
being that, like you, you tookthose 21 principles and have
(45:03):
been applying them and growingthem, so I think that's an
incredibly useful tool.
It sounds like it reallyimpacted you For sure.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
All right.
Well, dude, thank you so muchfor being on the show.
We're definitely gonna have tohave you back and do an update
on these new locations thatyou're building out.
And yeah, man, thank you somuch for being on the show.
Thanks, Will.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
Appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
Appreciate it.
Thank you for listening,Rockstars.
And if you're one of the manymedical professionals and
leaders who have had it dealingwith the drama of hiring and
training people that you thinkare overpriced, then let's think
about how virtual assistantscan offload you to do what you
love, which is changing people'slives.
In the show notes there's alink to jump on our calendar so
that we can show you why.
(45:41):
Linkedin shows that virtualassistants is the second fastest
growing trend in healthcare,next to artificial intelligence.
At no obligation, we'll see ifthis is a fit for you.
I hope to talk to you soon.
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