Co-Creating Culture, Vulnerability in Leadership, and Hiring for Heart with Amy Somerville

In this dynamic episode of the Will Power Podcast, host Will Humphreys sits down with Amy Somerville, CEO and founder of Moment of Clarity and former CEO of Success Enterprises, to explore the vital connection between leadership, culture, and personal transformation.

Amy, a veteran in the personal development and human growth space with over 20 years of experience (including executive roles at RE/MAX and Buffini & Company), shares her deep-seated passion for serving entrepreneurs and helping people reach their highest potential.

Key Takeaways & Discussion Points

• Culture is Strategy, Not Luxury: Amy breaks down the common misconception that culture is a "nice-to-have." She emphasizes that your organization's culture is your strategy, defining success, product development, and team loyalty.
• Culture is What You Allow: Learn why a top-down mandate doesn't work. True, thriving culture is co-created by the entire team, weaving through the soul of the organization and empowering members.
• The 'We' vs. 'I' Language Test: Discover key trigger words that reveal a toxic or selfish culture. A healthy culture shifts from "I" and "me" to "we" and "ours."
• Leadership is a Behavior, Not a Title: Amy shares her journey of shedding the "duck" mentality (calm on the surface, paddling furiously underneath). Vulnerability and authenticity build trust far more than the facade of perfection.
• The Art of Storytelling in Leadership: Find out how leaders can use their imperfections, failures, and lessons learned, not just their successes—to create an empathic connection and a non-judgmental coaching space for their teams.
• Hiring for Heart, Training for Skill: Amy outlines the strategy of making your culture crystal clear in job descriptions to act as a natural magnet or repellent. Plus, she reveals her favorite non-obvious interview question ("perfect or on time?") and what the best answers reveal about a candidate's team focus.
• Protect Your Culture: Understand the importance of consistently revisiting your co-created mission, vision, and values, and why neglecting behavioral misalignment is a fast track to culture decay.

Tune in to learn Amy's hard-won lessons on servant leadership, co-creating vision, and protecting the culture you allow.

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Hey Rockstars, today's episode will help you

(00:02):
become the kind of team memberthat every leader wants to keep
forever.
You're gonna learn how greatcompany culture is really built,
how leaders think, and mostimportantly, how you can stand
out in any team.
Amy Somerville is a genius.
She's one of the most powerfulleaders I've ever met.
She breaks down why curiositybeats perfection, how to

(00:25):
communicate with confidence, andhow to avoid burnout by
understanding your client, theirexpectations, and the culture
you're stepping into.
So if you want to grow, lead, ormake a bigger impact, this
episode is your roadmap.
Let's jump in.
Amy Somerville, I am so excitedto have you on the podcast

(00:49):
today.
Thank you so much for takingtime out of your schedule to be
with us.

SPEAKER_01 (00:52):
Oh my gosh, I'm so excited to be here.
Honored.
Thank you for inviting me.

SPEAKER_00 (00:56):
We had the privilege of meeting at Brian Wright's
three-day MBA back in August.
And to say that we had aconnection was an
understatement.
I felt like I was meeting mytwin sister from a, you know, I
mean, I just feel like we wereso aligned in terms of how we
viewed people and business andall of that.
And man, it was such a pleasure.
I can't believe I got you on theshow.

(01:16):
Um, why don't you introduceyourself and talk a little bit
about, you know, set the tablejust for a few minutes about who
you are, what you're passionateabout.

SPEAKER_01 (01:23):
Okay, great.
Yeah.
And I I will say I completelyagree.
It was one of those moments ofhow do we not know each other?
How our entire lives and notknown each other, but are so
connected and so, you know, inour belief systems and our heart
and our drive and our passion,the impact that we want to have.
Um, so I'm honored to be here.

(01:43):
Uh Amy Somerville, I am the uhfounder and CEO of Moment of
Clarity, which is a leadershipand consulting uh company that
um that I formed uh severalyears ago.
I have been, I would say, in thepersonal development, uh, human
growth, human transformationside of uh, or we'll say, we'll

(02:04):
call it an industry or passionplace, uh, most of my career.
So 20 plus years.
It was uh tied to real estate umon the front end.
So I was an executive at RemaxWorld Headquarters for many,
many years.
Um, I also worked with uh BrianBuffini and Buffini and Company
in uh the coaching anddevelopment space, again,

(02:25):
touching entrepreneurs primarilyin uh in areas that touch real
estate.
And then uh more recently uh wasthe CEO of Success Enterprises,
uh, which is home to uh a130-year-old uh brand that a lot
of people know, SuccessMagazine, uh which also included
success coaching and successevents.

(02:45):
And I've I've had theopportunity to serve
entrepreneurs, which I would sayis my passion.
I'm passionate about serving uhpeople who you know are looking
to have a massive impact.
Um I think uh my calling, mymission statement actually is to
impact and improve the lives ofothers.
And no matter what that means,right?

(03:07):
So it could be in leadership, itcould be personally, it could be
with their families, it could bein just connecting great people
together and uh seeing what uhwhat people you know develop uh
you know together with withcomplementary skill sets or
passion points.
So I guess I'm just uhultimately passionate about help
helping people transform theirlives and reach the their

(03:28):
highest potential that help thembe as successful as they choose
to be.

SPEAKER_00 (03:32):
Yeah, I love how you say that.
You know, in Rockstars as we'retalking to Amy, I want you to
understand this is a real forceof leadership with Amy.
You've got an interestingbackground in that you've been
an executive of very largecompanies.
Remax was how big when you werean executive in that space?

SPEAKER_01 (03:47):
Oh my gosh, uh 125,000 agents worldwide.

SPEAKER_00 (03:51):
So, I mean, so I want you guys to hear that.
You know, Amy's background hasbeen on both sides of it.
She's been an entrepreneur forvery massively successful
companies and then leader ofcompanies that led in training
leaders.
You know, success being a goodexample in that space.
I we're not gonna name drop, butany of the bigger names out
there in terms of developmentthat have books or major, major

(04:13):
followings, she has rubbedelbows with these individuals
and very humbly has been workingto help support not just like
you know your clients, but yourteams as well.
That is something that I see youas this kind of a mix of being
able to do both.
Because usually a business ownerfocuses more internally on their
teams, and then you have someonewho's more outfacing.
You've done a lot of the both ofthose things between your

(04:36):
podcast and that.
So, you know, for for you as aleader now, as you're looking at
developing leadership, what isyour vision for the future?
What is it that you want tocreate in the world?

SPEAKER_01 (04:46):
Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_00 (04:47):
You know, a nice light, you know, softball
question.
Wow, yeah, big time.

SPEAKER_01 (04:50):
That's like, don't mess this up.
Um, you know, again, I thinkeven if it is in the space, uh,
I think I'll always bepassionate about helping
entrepreneurs who have a bigdream, who have a big goal.
Um, I will always be passionateabout helping leaders become
better leaders, um, andactually, you know, team members

(05:11):
becoming great leaders uh withintheir own.
I think you and I agree uh onthe sentiment that leadership is
not a title.
Um, it is a behavior, it is apractice, and so you know, some
of that tactical, strategic, butalso just you know, behavior and
and daily practice that um I canI can spread or share or you

(05:33):
know contribute, um, you know,that that that will always be
meaningful to me.
But more recently that hasexpanded into you know pace, you
know, places of um contributionand and charitable work for
communities that don't haveaccess to, like you said, you
know, I I've I've had the theopportunity to bump elbows with

(05:54):
the best of the best in thepersonal development growth
leadership spaces.
Not a lot of people get thatopportunity.
So how can I help those who whodon't have that opportunity gain
some of the same tools, the sameresources, and change their
lives and their mindsets?

SPEAKER_00 (06:08):
Yeah, it's this real like global focus on on
leadership development.
And before we hit record, wewere talking about some things
that we just unfortunately won'thave a lot time for, but these
international, you know,projects that you and I are
sharing in terms of wanting tomake a difference in the global
economy of leadership andhelping rise the tide.
And um, you know, we talked, youmentioned developing leaders in

(06:30):
the team.
I think one of your hallmarkmoments, and this will be like
one of the things I'd like todig on in this episode, is
culture.
You know, culture and how youdevelop a team at that level.
I was privileged to be with AlexRamosy, who told me that Layla,
his wife, will never get thecredit that she deserves because
she's not as famous, and all ofher work is focused on culture

(06:55):
and people.
And having been in that space,you know, when I talk to people
who work at acquisition.com, Ialways say, So, what do you like
about it here?
Everyone's answer was Layla.
It was the leader thatfacilitated the culture.
So, Amy, that's you.
So let's talk, let's dig intoculture.
How do you define culture?
What is, you know, what is thatfor you, and how do you we'll

(07:16):
get into the details aroundthat?

SPEAKER_01 (07:18):
So I have so many definitions of uh culture, and I
have so many beliefs around it.
I think ultimately on the frontend, um, I will say I think it's
really important that culture isnot what you say it is, it's
what you allow.
Um, it is something that isco-created.
So, you know, people aren't, I Ican't imagine, saying Leela you

(07:41):
know, has has created a culturethat everybody has to follow.
It's right I into this culture,I feel empowered by this
culture.
I am I am weaved through the thesoul of this culture.
And I think when you, you know,you the the the things that um
start to show up with culture.
Actually I remember you saying,and uh you and I might have
different days on this quote,uh, but culture is how your team

(08:06):
feels when they show up onMonday morning.

SPEAKER_00 (08:09):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (08:09):
You know, are they excited?
Did you say Monday or Friday orSunday night?

SPEAKER_00 (08:12):
Well, it was Sunday night is what I think.
Sunday night on Monday morning.
That's Sunday blues.

SPEAKER_01 (08:18):
This is how connected we are.
Um mine was always to my team.
How did you know how do youfeel?
I want I want to know that youwake up in the morning and we
were, you know, 100% virtual inmultiple organizations that I've
led.
But when you walk up to yourcomputer and you log on to the
first meeting, you're excited onMonday morning.
You are amped, you're energized,you are you know pumped for

(08:41):
whatever it's gonna be, not onlyjust the connection with your
team members, but the impactthat you get to to make and the
things you get to create.
Um, if if that is not what isfelt, there's something, there's
something going on with theculture and you feel it.
Um other things that aretriggers for me in culture, I
know it's I know it's working, Iknow it's there when words go,

(09:04):
you know, the the focus oflanguage goes from I and me to
we and ours.
I've worked this hard, I putthis together.
How does this impact me?
I'm like, I mean, those aretrigger words, like, okay,
something's wrong with theculture here, right?
Like we've got to figure out andrefine uh what this all means.
We're too selfish mission overhere.

(09:25):
Uh when the conversation startsto use language that is, you
know, we're gonna knock this outof out of the park, our impact
is going to be immeasurable.
You know, we're going to exceedour our yearly goals in the in
the first couple of months ofthe year.
That is that community focus,the community feel, people are
proud of it.

(09:45):
You you build a culture thatpeople have helped build, have
helped sew.
And that I will say I divine byum and actually in a process uh
that is co-creating the mission,vision, values, beliefs, and
behavioral expectations of ateam or a company.
That it is not something uh thatthe leader by title creates and

(10:09):
you know sends down to the team,just so you know, this is our
culture, right?
This is who we are.
Uh that doesn't that doesn'twork.
Um, I think culture, some peoplestill believe that culture is a
luxury or a nice to have.
And I'm a strong, strongbeliever that culture is your
strategy.
That's it.

(10:29):
Like your certainly you haveyour your products, your
services, your your uh technicaldecisions, yeah, those things
that but a lot of that is framedafter you've created and gotten
clarity on your culture.
If you know what your mission isand everybody's got buy-in, if
you know what your vision is andeverybody has buy-in, and that

(10:50):
vision is a reflection of you asa leader and them as leaders in
their own areas of value andvalues.
Uh, I mean, these are people whowill be dedicated and loyal to
you for the rest of time andthey will do the best work of
their lives with you.
So to me, it is about, you know,getting co-creating that
culture, refining it where itneeds to be refined.

(11:12):
Uh, but it's a it's a team deal.
This is not a not a you knowtop-down uh this is what I say,
do as I say kind of thing.
It doesn't work out.

SPEAKER_00 (11:21):
Yeah, I there's so many things you said around
that, Amy, that I want tounpack.
You know, from the verybeginning, the first thing you
said is culture isn't what we uhcreate as much as what we
accept.
Is that is that what you said?

SPEAKER_01 (11:33):
Allow either one of those words.

SPEAKER_00 (11:34):
Allow.
What what can you unpack that alittle bit more for me?
What does that mean from whatyou've seen in the past?

SPEAKER_01 (11:39):
Right.
So if you have co-created aculture, um people know it.
They feel empowered by it, butthey also uh know and that they
have intention and clarityaround it.
So people, uh, once they havethat buy-in, they're not willing
to step out of the lines becausethe rest of the culture will, I
mean, it's like it's like youyou you got a big, you know,

(12:00):
highlighted uh yellow mark onyour forehead.
Right.
Have you adhered to the culture,right?
So you've got clarity ofculture.
And when it comes to anythingfrom, hey, you know, team
members are not necessarilygetting along, there's a
behavioral thing, there's a um,you can see there's a
motivational thing, it reallycomes down to culture.
So it is if you were to, youknow, uh be clear on your

(12:23):
culture and then alloweverybody, you know, great, we
we put it together, weco-created it, we spent the day
together, maybe two days, uh, weput it on a you know, a piece of
paper that everybody hangs intheir office, and then that's
it, we never revisit it again.
Um, there's no commitment tothat behaviorally, right?
And then then it goes from thatto like, oh well, so-and-so did

(12:43):
say this, or this there was arude comment, or these people
are bickering, or you know,things weren't you know done in
the right order or scope or whathave you.
Um we'll just let it go thistime.

SPEAKER_00 (12:54):
Right.
So you're saying it's like theyare letting these culture
killers in because it takes workto hold that accountable.

SPEAKER_01 (13:01):
No, it's it is a constant reminder.
We I mean starting with startingmeetings with a reminder of the
reciting of the mission, vision,values, beliefs, and
expectations.
Something as simple as um this,hey, before we kick off, you
know, I I don't know about howyou run your meetings, but I
like I like to I like to be alittle bit of a mess, right?
On the front end, it's uh hey,socially, personally, how was

(13:26):
your weekend?
How was your evening?
How did things wrap up?
Tell me something fun, uh, youknow, whatever it, whatever it
is, be uh uh more personal anduh connected to each other
outside of just the work, right?
Yeah, you spend your whole, Imean, I it's something
ridiculous, like you know, 68,70% of your life with the people

(13:48):
that you work with, not withyour families, not with
yourself, not like these areyour people.
So building a culture wherepeople are excited to show up
for each other.
Um, they want to share who theyare personally and
professionally, and then like,okay, let's, you know, let's
move into the the business ofthe day.
You know, who wants to, whowants to jump in and reminder of
mission, vision, values, andbeliefs, right?

(14:08):
Um, it's something that'ssimple.
It's I mean, it could be evendialed down to you know what
those things are, but it's tiedto uh a rally cry.
Yeah, right.
Like something that is, youknow, could be goofy or a motto
or something that you put onshirts and you're proud of just
being a part of that communityand that culture, and then you
move into the business of theday.
But it just, you know, kind ofkind of comes back and it just

(14:30):
is that backboard, that um, Ihate to say scorecard, but that
backboard for every toughconversation, for every great
conversation, right?
Like as you're meeting with, youknow, your team members and the
people that you lead, like, hey,phenomenal day today.
Like, not only were you such asteward of the culture, but you
accomplished this, that, andwhatever on top of it.
Like, amazing.

(14:50):
Hey, saw that you were kind ofstruggling in the meeting today.
Like, you know, where where dowe feel like there was um
conflict of culture there,right?

SPEAKER_00 (14:57):
So you have that wonderful rapport with your
people.
It's funny because I think wherea lot of business owners get
messed up, I know me included.
I initially erred on the side ofmaking everyone my best friends.
And I learned that was amistake.
I think when we're talking aboutcloseness, especially as it
talks about your culture thatbleeds into the personal world
where people have personalrelationships.

(15:18):
One distinction that I I I wantto know your thoughts on.
My experience has been that Ican make work the primary
priority in that connection, andit still becomes very personal
because we're connected around amission, where a vision.
We want to rally and make adifference in the world around
this thing called the company'spurpose.
And then in that space, 80%, 90%of our communication is

(15:41):
professional or whatever thatdivision is for people.
But for me, with most of mypeople, it's 80 to 90 percent is
but there's still that verydeep, meaningful 10 to 20
percent of like, I know what'sgoing on in their world, they
don't necessarily see me astheir life coach, but I'm aware
of things, we're supportingthings, we we bonus to things,
we give awards.

(16:03):
And ironically, even thoughthat's not like a deep, you
know, it's not like the firstperson I would call if my mother
died was someone who's on my youknow direct team necessarily,
but they would be my second orthird call.
Like those relationships arestill some of the most
personally endearing of my life.
Right.
Despite that.

(16:23):
So you're talking about aculture of like results, and I
think what you're saying iswhere most people err is on the
opposite side, where they'rekeeping it so professional that
they're not allowing the magicof like the personalization come
in and really transform how thatfeels as a company.
I will tell you that the way youdescribed your meeting rhythms,
I want you to go after this.

(16:44):
I'm gonna send you our meetingof our agenda because it's so
similar to what you said, it'shysterical.
But like, talk about theelements of culture.
What are the key components thatyou see in a company that help
provide that balanced personaland professional culture?
What are the things that youlike to see or do in order to
keep that growing?

SPEAKER_01 (17:01):
Well, I think it it ties very closely related to
your comment that um a lot ofleaders have a misconception.
And I was absolutely that leaderfor a long time.
So I mean, like where we aretoday is a is uh you know, a
journey, right?
Um, of a lot of mistakes andlearnings along the way of like,

(17:22):
okay, that wasn't exactly theright approach, and let's refine
and ooh, good lesson there.
And you know, many years into uhthe leadership journey, you
know, still not perfect, butlike I feel in more of the sweet
spot than the the than the painpoints and the learning lessons,
right?
Um, so I think most leaders dofeel one, um, if they're put in

(17:45):
a position of leadership or ifthey are um working at a
position of leadership, thatthey have to have it all right.

SPEAKER_00 (17:55):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (17:56):
They have to have all the answers, they have to be
confident, um, you know, it'sall business all the time, don't
show any emotion.
Um, I will tell you that wasabsolutely the map that was
drawn for me early in myleadership career.
I remember hearing right off thebat, and I had uh I'm gonna give

(18:16):
you this visual.
Maybe this is something you'veheard before.
Have you ever heard that greatleaders are like ducks?

SPEAKER_00 (18:23):
I haven't heard that.

SPEAKER_01 (18:24):
Calm and cool and serene, floating on the top of a
pond, but underneath theirlittle feet are just gone crazy.

SPEAKER_00 (18:31):
But you never know.

SPEAKER_01 (18:32):
Leaders, great leaders never show they're in
panic.
No, you know, leaders don't everever show that you know they're
pedaling faster than theirlittle hearts can take it
underneath the surface.
And so in my head, in my earlyleadership career, that was it.
I was confident, I was cool, Ikept my personal and business
life's completely separate.
Um, I was not vulnerable enoughto say when I didn't have

(18:54):
answers, I mean, I would makethem up on the spot.
Had to have all the answers,right or wrong, I'm the leader.
That's what that's the chargethrough.
And many, many, many, uh toomany to share, but so many
examples and stories of like,wow, people don't trust
perfection.

(19:15):
Right, they trust authenticity,they trust uh a leader's
willingness to be vulnerable.
And it took me a really, reallylong time, and it's just not um
inherently who I am uh or evenhow I was raised.
And so learning the softer sideof myself, learning the softer
side of um of allowingvulnerability to come into

(19:38):
leadership.
And I think that's where you getto see um a little bit of the
balance of the personal andprofessional.
So um I insert that from aleadership perspective and
storytelling.

SPEAKER_00 (19:50):
Yeah, I was gonna say, how does that look?
Like showing I I think theconcept's very inspiring and
everyone connects with that.
But what does that look like forAmy?

SPEAKER_01 (19:58):
Yeah, I think for me, it's not telling.
It's sharing.
It's letting people experiencethrough you.
So that if they feel someconnection in the story, they're
like, okay, cool.
I get that.
I see that.
I've been there.
I understand.
I empathize with that.
Um, so I think, you know, firstand foremost, storytelling is
such a great way to not imposeyour personal beliefs, not but

(20:20):
but say, hey, it's okay.
Like this is where I have messedup.
Not, and when I say stories, Idon't mean this is the success
stories.
Like, let me tell you how greatI am and when I made this really
great decision.
It is like, huh, that reminds meof a time.

SPEAKER_00 (20:35):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (20:35):
You mind if I share a quick story with you, right?
So get the permission, right?
You're not just dumping in anduh using it as your own personal
therapy session.

SPEAKER_00 (20:44):
Like, did you guys think I did the right thing?
What do you think?
Yeah, you're not really usingthat for therapy.

SPEAKER_01 (20:48):
It really is, you know, storytell revealing all
the vulnerabilities, thefailures, the lessons learned so
that people can see themselveswith you and not, okay, you
know, leave this is what I haveto do, this is the leader's
rule, you know, it all needs tobe separate.
So I think you can share moreabout yourself, your authentic
self through storytell.

(21:09):
I think that uh you can sharethat, you know, your
imperfections through storytell.
I think it allows people to seethemselves in you and your
stories and their scenarios, andthey can, and it is a form of
coaching, right?
That they can take what theywant and leave what they don't
want.
Um, but it but it uh creates aspace of relationship that is
um, I'm not expecting you toknow all the answers, I don't

(21:32):
know the answers, right?
Um but but it takes away the theveil and the facade of um uh do
it the right way first or else.
Um it it provides that thattrust foundation so that if
there is something personal,like hey, uh notice that um, you
know, in this meeting, or hey,you know, we're we're missing
deadlines here.

(21:53):
Um is is there anything I canhelp you with?

unknown (21:56):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (21:57):
Right?
They're willing to say, look, Igot some, you know, maybe not
even the details, I got somepersonal stuff going on.
This is not here.
I'll give this right.
Okay, great.
How can I help you um, you know,get caught up, meet the
deadline, exceed your goals, youknow, what what have you?
So it is um a place of stayingout of judgment and in
curiosity, um, something that Ijust live by.

(22:19):
And it took me again a long timeto get to that place.
Is it's okay.
I have coaching clients thatwill uh have been annoyed by me
when they are like, this iswhat's going on with my staff,
or this is what's going on withmy team.
And I'm like, you know, like,well, I don't know this, and
this is what I think is goingon.
I'm like, well, do you know atlast?
And they're like, I don't wantto ask them, you know, I just

(22:41):
want to know.
I just want to like you gotta,you know, ask the questions.
You might be creating anarrative that doesn't exist.
You may be skipping over, youknow, that somebody has
something, you know, uh going onpersonally, and you actually
have a tool or resource that canhelp them uh in this time.
So it is um through storytellingwith your willingness to be
vulnerable about yourself,shedding the the skin that you

(23:04):
are have to be perfect in everyway and have all the answers,
and even saying things like, Idon't know, we're gonna figure
it out together.

SPEAKER_00 (23:13):
I think that's the leader component of it, isn't
the knowing of the answers, it'sthe confidence in the team.

unknown (23:19):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (23:19):
And I I think I love how you said shedding because
truly, in my experience, it waseither wanting to be seen as
because I was super, I wentthrough like the first lie I
told myself as an entrepreneuris that I wasn't good enough.
And so I covered that with a lotof like performance and extra
hard work, little legs runningunderneath the thing, calm
exterior.
And then later it flipped towhen I knew I was enough, at

(23:42):
least you know, from a a valueadd perspective.
And then I had this oppositeproblem of need of like everyone
was couldn't help me because Iwas so good.

unknown (23:51):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (23:51):
And it was like, no, I can't find good help.
There's no good help these days.
Like I might that it was aironically, the major lesson I
learned was it was never aboutmeat in the first place.
Right.
But in those, in those stepswhere people are shedding those
those exterior, you know,problems or or needs to be seen
as, that's where I think you'resaying authenticity comes into
place and really gets right tothe human element of the

(24:12):
relationship at work becauseit's still product results
driven, I should say, but it'sabout service more than anything
else, is how I'm hearing it fromyou.

SPEAKER_01 (24:20):
Yeah, I'm uh I I again didn't start out this way,
but servant leadership meanssomething to me.
Um, and that is, you know, basedin empowerment and asking the
questions and uh arming you knowpeople with the tools and the
education and the knowledge andthe you know whatever exterior

(24:41):
that they may not have toaccomplish what they want to
accomplish.
Um so I think it is, you know,the the job as leaders find out,
you know, our job is to, well, Idon't know.
You and I have differentdefinitions, but I like yours
more.
Um my I I believe, I believe ourjob is as leaders is to create
leaders, right?
Um, whatever that means for ourpeople.

(25:01):
And I know yours is definingleadership is love, which I love
so much because that is thatties in everything I was just
saying, is that that empathy andthat heart and that connection
is okay.

SPEAKER_00 (25:12):
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 (25:13):
It's okay to have those things and it's okay to
care about your people.
Um, and it's actually I thinkit's unbelievably important.
So um, yeah, I think it, I thinkthat's um absolutely, absolutely
key is is just understandingwhere people are coming from,
what their perspective, whattheir goals are, and arming them
with the tools to to reach thosegoals.

SPEAKER_00 (25:35):
So, you know, this is so insightful as you're
talking, and I I do believe thesame thing, you know, purest
form of leadership love,greatest purpose of a leader,
build more leaders.
As people who are listening tothis are feeling inspired to do
this, I I am sure a percentageof our audience is feeling a
little scared because I I don'tthink you know employees ever

(25:58):
realize how often we get firedand and truly like the trauma
business owners go through interms of when they hire the
wrong fit and then apply theseprinciples to it.
Right.
So, like as as a leader opensthemselves up and becomes just
like the servant leader and ispouring into their people, how
do they distinguish and protectthemselves against the

(26:19):
individuals, those few and farbetween, who are truly
disdructive, on a lesserdramatic extent, just not
aligned.
How does that hurt or help thoserelationships?
I'm kind of curious from yourperspective if that approach is
something that sets us up forfailure, or if there's a way to
help protect us, or is there away that accelerates the

(26:39):
understanding?
Tell me what you think aboutthat.

SPEAKER_01 (26:42):
Um, so I I kind of fundamentally believe that you
hire for heart and train forskill.
And so if you are clear aboutyour culture and you are
inviting someone into thatculture, as clear as you can be
about the culture that they areinterviewing for, is um, I mean,
it creates either a magnet,right?

(27:04):
If they're drawn to that cultureand they're like automatic
buy-in, it's a magnet toward.
Uh, if you are so specific aboutlike this is what the team has
created, these are thebehavioral expectations that
have been lined out thateverybody on the team is
dedicated to, and they don'tfeel like it's a match, it will
be, you know, magnets turn theother way.

(27:25):
It will kind of repel peoplenaturally.
So I think um clarity isprovides uh a lot of the success
of hiring.
Um, if there's a, you know, andthat but that happens.
You hire someone who you believeis 100% connected to the culture
that has been created, um, theyfill a great skill set that's

(27:47):
needed, uh, they come in withwith uh all the tools and you
know, what a great compliment tothe team, and something changes.
Those are conversations, like,okay, right.
And again, the clarity is soimportant because you are
intentionally growing from that,that culture.
Um, your job is to protect theculture that you've built,
right?
It says just as much to thepeople who are watching someone

(28:10):
veer off from the culture andyou're not doing anything about
it as you know, hiring somebodyand building that culture from
you know, from the startingpoint.
So it's just as and I'm likeprotect your culture with
everything you've got.
And so, you know, somebody couldcome in and it starts out great
and it's not going well, andthen the conversations are hey,
you know, want to have aconversation, things don't seem

(28:31):
to be, you know, you don't seemto be happy.
Um, that's not the goal here.
Let's review the culture.
Um, where are you feelingconflict with the culture?
Right?
Or where are things not inalignment with the culture?
And either you hear it in theform of uh, yep, my I know that
this is not a fit for me, or itcomes out in, well, you, well,

(28:53):
they, well, right?

SPEAKER_00 (28:55):
That's a big indicator.
I love that's a as a side notejust to jump in.
I I think when they when it'sall deflective and and you and
they and the generalizations,well, everyone, she always says,
or they are always, it's like,oh, okay, red flag.

SPEAKER_01 (29:08):
Like, are you sure?
How do you know?
I just like to ask questions.
Are you sure?
How do you know?
Um, are you sure that that's howthey feel?
Are you sure that that's whatthey're doing?
Um, you know, that you know uhthis is the our defining
culture.
If there's a conflict with ahuman being, like let's sit down
and and have you to addressthat, right?
From a place of uh of realcuriosity and not judgment.

(29:28):
Um, but yeah, I mean, there aretime I have been schooled.
I have been uh in that positionwhere I thought I had hired the
perfect um, actually it's like aa uh second in command, if you
will, position.
Uh my contingent, well, notcontingency, my succession plan,
right?

(29:48):
Like here's my succession, I winthe lottery and I'm out of here.
This person's going to run thiscompany or the division or what
have you.
And I'm going to invest a lot oftime into developing uh them
into that that person.
And in short order, I I think umunfortunately, I think you
intuitively know right away, uh,for the most part.

(30:10):
And when I say unfortunately,you know after you've hired
them.
Uh typically.

SPEAKER_00 (30:16):
I I sometimes, you know, I've had I for me
intuitively, and I considermyself a master recruiter, like
there's been times where Ibeforehand, I'm like, oh, this
is gonna I almost worry whenit's like there's no
reservation.
Right.
Like for me, it's like when I'vegone in the past where I'm like,
they're a hundred percentperfect, no concerns on any
level whatsoever, is sometimeswhere that's gone sideways.
Now, to your point, after we'vehired people, then usually we

(30:39):
get a pretty quick in thetuition of the fit because we're
seeing it application-wise.

SPEAKER_01 (30:42):
Right.
Well, and so you know, I I do, Ido subscribe to the you know,
take your time in the hiringprocess.
Yeah.
Um, but as soon as you recognizethat there's not a fit, um, that
there's a conflict where there'sa misalignment with the culture
and it's not going to progressforward.
There you've worked through, youknow, decent conversations and
it's just gonna be a miss.

(31:03):
Um, you know, you owe it to themas well for them to find their
perfect fit where they're goingto excel and grow.
And so if our job as leaders isto help develop other leaders,
developing other leaders alsomeans helping them to develop in
other spaces, right?
That would be, you know, uh bestfor them.
So I think it's a also a firefast.
Um, but it's a you know, it's afire fast with, hey, I, you

(31:25):
know, I would be remiss if I,you know, didn't share with you,
like, look, there, this is justa miss here, uh, but I want the
best for you, right?
I I wouldn't have hired you if Ididn't believe that you are a
great human being and haveincredible talents and wonderful
things to give.
Let me help you find thatsomewhere else.

SPEAKER_00 (31:41):
That's powerful.
You know, you talk about thebig, you know, we that was a
great way of explaining what dowe do when someone's not
culturally a fit, when wethought they were, and how do we
address that?
I think that was an amasterclass on how to maintain
your culture but still beholding the values of your
company as the protective thingthat you're doing.
You mentioned hiring forculture, training on skill.

SPEAKER_01 (32:03):
Yep, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (32:04):
What are what are two or three key things that you
do?
Obviously, that could be like aseries of podcasts is how you
would hire on culture.
But what are some of the thingsthat you like to do or see, or
how do you indicate that someoneis a cultural fit during that
dating period of recruiting?

SPEAKER_01 (32:18):
I put it in the job description.

unknown (32:20):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (32:21):
Well, first and foremost, the first thing they
see is like, and these, youknow, this is you know, then
this is the mission, this is thevision, this is the the you
know, expectations, here's thethe values and beliefs that we
adhere to.
Um, so that people on the frontend, even before the very first
interview, are like, huh, isthis something that matches what
I want, or is this somethingthat like, ooh, like, gosh,

(32:45):
this, you know, Amy lady soundsa little frou-fruit of me.
And I, you know, I don't know ifI believe in these things, or
you know, that that, you know,the team is all about this.
Uh, you know, I don't know.
So I think there there is afilter system in and also just
be putting it out there.
Don't don't let it be like, andsurprise, here's our culture.
Hope it works out for you.
Like, put it out there first umin in job description.

(33:07):
I I weave it through thequestions of my interview.
I mean, you could, you know,simply easily, you know, now
with uh uh technology withChatGPT, plug in your your
culture, your mission, vision,values, beliefs, uh, behavioral
expectations.
What are, you know, three greatinterview questions that will
help me identify if this is agreat person for a culture fit?
And I'd say that as not an HRprofessional who doesn't want to

(33:30):
be sued for anything, um, butyou know, give you an idea of
the kinds of questions that ummight help you understand, you
know, and and questions thatlike um you put people into, I
mean, it could be situationsthat you've been in, right?
Here's a challenge.
Um, if you were in this type ofsituation, you know, what would
that look like?
What I have I have a I have afavorite interview question,

(33:51):
which is not what you asked me,but I have right now that's all
I want to know.

SPEAKER_00 (33:56):
That's all I want to know is this favorite.

SPEAKER_01 (33:59):
And so simple, but most people that have worked for
me even in the past are like,yeah, I remember that question.
Um uh when you're working on aproject, uh, would you rather
have it delivered perfect or ontime?

SPEAKER_00 (34:14):
So what do you glean from the answer of that
question?

SPEAKER_01 (34:18):
Uh flexibility.
And not just uh flexibility, butum uh an understanding of uh the
team goal.
Okay, that it's not about you,right?
Even if you're a specialist,right?
Even if you're a specialist,it's not about your specific
mission of I need to have itperfect or I need to always on

(34:42):
time.
And it's funny to throw thatquestion out and you see, you
know, uh personality profilescome real clear through disc
profile or whatever personalityprofile you know well, like, oh,
always on time.
Always on perfect every timeperfect.
Um I prefer the answer of well,what's the goal?

SPEAKER_00 (35:05):
Right, more questions because like my mind
immediately went to this idea oflike, okay, how do you know
what's the end in mind and whatare the were the variables that
I that aren't being mentioned?
What's the project?
Because then you're getting moreof some flexibility as someone
who's able to also think ontheir feet.
It kind of reminds me of thatGoogle question.

SPEAKER_01 (35:21):
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 (35:22):
Where like you're three feet tall and you're in a
blender, how do you get out?
Or three inches tall and you'rein a blender.
Oh, that's a good one too.
Yeah, I yeah, it's it's a it'sthey're just looking to see how
your brain works.
But in your case, I see whereyou're trying to get to see how
their brain works from ateamwork perspective.

SPEAKER_01 (35:35):
Teamwork and a willingness to be a little
vulnerable, right?
Uh don't have to have all theanswers correct, right?
You don't have to pick one sideor the other, or have the right
answer or the wrong answer, orbe worried that you have the
wrong answer.
Did I answer right?
Is that what you were lookingfor?
Uh, but uh I I mean I guess itdepends on the budget.
You're right, it does.
I guess it depends on theclient.
I guess it does.

(35:55):
Uh, you know, I guess it dependson what the team is working on.
Are we a part of uh, you know, apipeline of development?
Am I in the front part of thedevelopment or of the project or
the last part?
Do I bring it on home?
Um, anybody who's willing to askthe questions, get more
information, and recognize thatI don't want them to give me an
answer right away.

SPEAKER_00 (36:13):
Yeah.
Uh it's funny, it reminds me ofa story.
The CEO of acquisition.com tellsthis story about how he was
being interviewed to be a CEO ofa different large company.
And um the uh the the personinterviewing him said, Okay, I
want you to I want you to getthis person.
Um right now I'm gonna give youthe cell phone number of this
person.
I want you to close right nowthis deal.

(36:35):
Um, and you're gonna sell this,and this is the product you
want.
Like he did like a 30-secondtraining, it was this real
intense moment.
He's like, I want you to do thatright now.
And he said, Great, can you tellme what you say on your calls
then before I start?
And like, I just want to learnfrom you.
And he goes, You're hired.
And he's like, What do you whatjust happened?
And he goes, he goes, You're thefirst person I interviewed that

(36:56):
didn't just pick up the phoneand start calling.
And like, you know, for you youasked questions, you were
curious about things.
So there that's a beautifulquestion because it's this
creative way of allowing you tosee how people are, because the
stress in that moment isn'tdifferent than the stress of
working for you and being givenan assignment in that exact
circumstance comes up.

(37:16):
Because then you get to see howthey react under stress and how
their brain works.
And there's like you said,there's no wrong answer.
There's value in someone saying,Gosh, do I have to choose
between the two of those?
Because I'd like to do both.
And you know, what else can youtell me?
Like, oh, okay, we got someonewho's a thinker.

SPEAKER_01 (37:30):
Well, and I and I gotta be honest, like it's not
it's almost unfair that I'mhoping people go there young,
when I say young, early in theircareers and in their
development, because again, thatwas one of those lessons I had
to learn over time.
Actually, it was a super painfullesson.
I'll tell you the quick story.

SPEAKER_00 (37:47):
Please.

SPEAKER_01 (38:02):
You, you know, go through uh an unbelievable
coursework, but there's also umhalf of the event where you're
building in simulation a publiccompany and you're competing
with other teams for the valueof the company that you
ultimately launch, right?
Um, so there's the learningpiece of things, there's uh a

(38:24):
dynamic, you know, you'reparticipating in different
activities to solidify thethings that you've learned, and
then in the afternoons you arebuilding a company, you're
buying and selling product,right?
So uh first couple of days, sopeople are very particular about
who's on their team.
The roles, the job descriptions,the titles.
Um, I was uh attending thiscourse with people, super,

(38:46):
super, super impressive humanbeings.
CEOs, uh CFOs of large, largecompanies and banks that you
know.
And there I was from a personaldevelopment and growth
standpoint, you know, forfranchises.
And we were like, well, I don'tknow what that means to me.
How are you gonna contribute?
We're building a public company.
Anyway, so I had massiveinsecurities.

(39:07):
Um, I was feeling um veryintimidated that I was not the
smartest person in the room.
And uh we had a uh uh activitythat was a negotiation activity.
And in my head, I was like, Igot this one.
Whatever this is, I'm thewinner, right?
Um and it was a negotiation thatis too long to tell you about,

(39:29):
but the concept being uheverybody was told, everybody
had a little piece of paper,we'll say team of five, five
people went into a room, oneperson was selling eggs, rare
eggs.
One person was told that they,you know, in private that they
needed to get only egg whites,one needed only yolks, one
needed shell, one needed all theeggs, right?

(39:51):
So everybody had what theyneeded to go get out of this
negotiation, but there wererules you cannot say what you're
going in for.
There were all kinds of Rules ofwhat you couldn't say, what you
couldn't share, but you had togo negotiate your little tail
off and be the winner of thenegotiation.

SPEAKER_00 (40:07):
Got it.

SPEAKER_01 (40:07):
So I walked into this negotiation, unbelievable
people in my group, super uhrespectable, crazy smart,
intelligent, experienced humanbeings, all men.
Yes.
So I'm like, even bigger chip onmy shoulder.
I got this.
I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna,I'm gonna show these guys.
That's exactly watch this.
And I, I mean, I did my bestnegotiating.

(40:30):
I didn't get what I wanted, butnobody else did.
So we go back into theclassroom, and the professor's
like, okay, so which groups uhin which groups did everybody
get what they needed out of thenegotiation?
And I'm like, no way.
Multiple teams.
Everybody who went into thenegotiation walked away with
what they needed.

SPEAKER_00 (40:49):
Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 (40:51):
And I I mean I couldn't figure out what the
deal was.
And it came down to, right, notgoing in Billy Badass, thinking
you're going to run anegotiation, not going in with a
selfish mission that I'm goingto win this, I'm gonna bully
this, I'm gonna, you know, I'mgonna have the right answers,
I'm gonna whatever.
The teams that won were teamsthat went in and said, okay,

(41:13):
here's what I don't need.
Does anybody else need this?
Right?
So they figured out how to askthe questions and stay in
curiosity to wiggle around therules.

SPEAKER_00 (41:25):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (41:26):
Everybody can be happy, Will, if you ask the
questions and you stay incuriosity and you don't go in
with your selfish mission andyour chip on your shoulder and
that kind of thing.
So um I had to learn that.
I mean, I it destroyed me.
I I be honest with you, I wentback to my my little dorm, cried
my eyes out, and I'm like, I amthat person.
Big lesson.
I am that person.

(41:47):
I don't want to be that person.
Um, and what do I need to learnabout self?
That is and and confidence inmy, you know, in me and my
abilities to have goodrelationships and conversations
so that everybody can be awinner.

SPEAKER_00 (42:00):
I love that story.
And I'm that person too, or atleast I can be.
Yeah.
You know, I I think there'ssomething talk about modeling
culture in that story, by theway.
This wasn't the story of Iwalked in and I saw and I won.
It was here's a painful lesson Ilearned that was so humbling to
me.
And I think you just modeledeverything that you've said up

(42:23):
to being how to developleadership through uh culture
through leadership in that onestory.
And I feel I respect you morebecause you were willing to
share that element because Irelate more to that than being
like, you know, I just kind offelt the answer and I saw within
me what I could do to serve.
And you know, the only way I'velearned to do things productive

(42:45):
now, honestly, has come throughrepetition and failure of me
going, Oh, I am an idiot.
Why would I decide to not I am,I just I acted like an idiot in
that case.
Why would I do this or that?
But the truth of the matter is,is like I think that's how most
people like the vast majority ofthe people in the world would
have negotiated the way that younegotiate.
That's like the common thing.

(43:06):
We realize that that thing aboutbeing kind and like being in
curiosity is the difference.
And and it's weird becausethere's a big perception for a
lot of people that there'sweakness in that.
Like I don't know if you'veexperienced that, but like a lot
of times in my world, peoplehave have been in my my my world
and gotten to know me, andthey're just like, Wow, that

(43:28):
guy, like I've had multiplepeople just be like, that guy is
so like emotional, and this iswhat a waste.
And when some people think I'mgay, like it's all these things,
and it's like I'm just you know,and and by the way, that's not
how I used to be.
Like my initial way was the wayI was raised, very masculine
energy, very like to the point.
And there's nothing wrong withthat when we're that's an

(43:51):
element of what we need tobuild, but there's this other
thing called people, and withpeople, it's about love and
nurture, it's about helpingsupport and grow and
authenticity and all thoseelements.
So I really appreciate yousharing that story.
I felt like I learned a lot aswell about the power of how we
can stay in curiosity andeveryone can win.

SPEAKER_01 (44:07):
Yeah, no, it's it's a it's a tough lesson to learn,
and I'm sure people are like,well, okay, so but this
interview question, if peopleget it wrong, you just don't
hire them.
No, it's just one of myinterview questions that helps
me tell the story about who weare as a culture.
Yeah, right?
So it and what you see is eitherepiphany or well, no, that's

(44:27):
ridiculous.
Um, you know, I or people openup.
I'm coming from a company whereall that mattered was the bottom
line.

SPEAKER_00 (44:35):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (44:35):
Right?
So it's on time.
That's had to be the answer.
Well, that's not who we are.
Oh gosh, I love that.
That will be a refreshing changefor me, right?
So it really, they're justconversation starters.
There's no, I don't have any uhnecessarily interview questions
that are no's.
Um, you know, there I have sillyones like um how would you
describe opening an orange?

(45:00):
In the journalism world, right?
Um, in the world of media, thedetails, the smells, the um uh
the extras, I get to hear alittle bit about people's
personalities and what theyvalue or how they experience
things.
And I'm like, that's so good,right?
Um so it's they're not yeses andno's.

(45:20):
There's not, oh, that's youknow, nope, you said you wanted
to be a lion instead of a seal.
Check, you know, thosequestions.

SPEAKER_00 (45:26):
Oh, yeah.
I know a question.

SPEAKER_01 (45:28):
Tell me more about people's personalities, their
profiles, where they've been,their stories.
It opens up the opportunity toshare my stories.

SPEAKER_00 (45:36):
Yeah, it's powerful.
Um, it's neat too because thereare people who legitimately want
the bottom line.
They want to work for companies.
We had an employee resign.
He was a bookkeeper, of course,uh, in that regard because his
brain worked, he worked as avirtual assistant for other
companies.
He was seen as a cog and awheel.
In our first team meeting, we'relike, so how does it feel to be
a part of the team?

(45:56):
And we're gonna go around andsay something nice about each
other and what you know, likeall these things that we do in
our culture.
And he quit the next week andhe's like, Hey, listen, I don't
want to be offended, I don'twant to offend you guys, but
like I don't know what all thatstuff is, I don't want anything
to do with it.
So some companies can functionin that way.
What we're talking about areculture-led companies that
honestly just like totally killin the market.

(46:18):
It that's the byproduct of allthis.
So you have people who wouldtake a bullet for each other.
Absolutely.
They they build they buildbetter, more sustainable, or at
least more pivotable to wherethey can they can go where they
need to go to thrive.
And those are the cult thecultures that this generation
that's coming up, they thrive,they want, they're desperate to
look for a community where theycan feel like they belong.

(46:41):
And um that happen that has tohappen in that way.
So, what other questions do youhave?
The orange question isbrilliant.
Do you have any other questionslike that?
Silly ones?

SPEAKER_01 (46:49):
Gosh, I can't think anything off the top of my head.
Um, you know, I I sometimes it'sa scenario that's just happened
within the organization.

SPEAKER_00 (46:58):
I see.
Real time.

SPEAKER_01 (47:00):
Yep.
Here's a situation that justhappened.
Which yeah, any thoughts aroundthat?
How would you have approachedthat?
The same, different, um, orhere's a challenge we're facing.
So it could even just be realtime.
You know what?
Actually, real time, this iswhat's going on right now.
Um, tell the story.
Like, and then again, are theyasking more questions?
Okay, well, so tell me aboutthis.
Have you ever worked with thesepeople before?

(47:21):
What is their expectation?
I love all that.
Like, then it's, you know,you're gonna have some longer
interviews, I'll say.
Um, but do you you know um ifthe if the culture fit is there,
if the um personality profileneed and want, like, again, to
your point, the people who don'twant to be part of something
like that and are not willing touh ask the questions, like it

(47:42):
will be a very uncomfortableinterview, and they're gonna
walk away just as disenchantedas you are.
There's not gonna be confusionwhere they're like, I nailed all
those answers.
They're gonna be like, that wasweird, and you're gonna say that
was weird.
Um, you know, so I think I thinkthose uh the the more
conversational the you know thethe interviews can be and more

(48:03):
showing who you are and thatkind of thing.
Um uh I remember being in aninterview and I carried this one
one through, is like, and itactually applies to both of our
backdrops right now.
Sure.
Tell me a story about thepicture that's hang hanging
behind me.

SPEAKER_00 (48:17):
Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 (48:19):
There's no right or wrong answer.
Just tells me more about you.
If I'm gonna ask you thatquestion, I probably already
know I'm hiring you.

SPEAKER_00 (48:26):
Yeah.
Right?

SPEAKER_01 (48:27):
Yeah.
Because then I'm just like, ooh,this is I'd love to know more
about you and how you wouldlike.
So tell me, tell me a storyabout the picture behind you.

SPEAKER_00 (48:35):
You're starting to learn how that person thinks
because you're already in it'sit's a probable yes.
Right.
And now you're asking something.
Well, it serves two purposes.
I think you learn more aboutthat person, but then there's
nothing better in life thanbeing different when it comes to
like competitive advantage.
So Steve Martin's the one whosaid that.
He's like, it's better to bedifferent than good because when
you're different, you'reautomatically good because you

(48:57):
stand out.
So like I've never heard thatquestion before, but that pay
that person will never forgetthat question.
Like, if they're if that's areal desired hire, they're
they're not getting these kindsof like off-the-wall questions,
which culturally is part of whoyou guys are, and that would
attract them if that's who theyare too.

SPEAKER_01 (49:12):
Well, and I do it to be fair, I also have worked um
in a lot of creative umindustries, right?
So I love to hear, like, youknow, just go wild, man.
Like, I want to I want to hearhow how wild this can actually
get and like have fun with it.
Are we people that will have funworking together every day um
and creating?
Or if it's like uh, I mean, Iit's trees and a path, pretty

(49:34):
much that's the story.

SPEAKER_00 (49:35):
Um I was on a hike and then it was over at the end.

SPEAKER_01 (49:39):
That's right.
So I like that reminds me thoughof um of well, and I I might be
messing up this quote a littlebit, but uh Marcus Buckingham,
and it's something I've alwaysbelieved is that uh people join
companies or cultures and theyleave managers slash leaders,
right?
So if you've got someone who'sincredible and they decide,

(50:03):
like, hey, this isn't the placefor me, um, there's one place
you should be looking, right?
Um it, you know, you you hiredto the culture, they're
unbelievable skill set, they'vebuilt relationships, all's well,
and they decide to leave.
I mean, it could be growthopportunity, which again is
still leaving you if you're notable to provide that for them.
Um, but it I I I stick to thatone as well because that a lot

(50:25):
of learning lessons in thatalong my journey is you know,
the pain of losing somebodyamazing.

SPEAKER_00 (50:31):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (50:31):
And acknowledging, like, okay, what can we change
about this culture that will notuh not encourage somebody of
that caliber to ever leave usagain?
Uh, what do we need to changeabout um you know our mission?
How do we need to expand ourparts of our culture or the way
that we do things um so weattract a higher level

(50:52):
personality?

SPEAKER_00 (50:53):
Yeah, I love that because you know, no matter what
happens when someone leaves, itis always tied to the owner.
You know, even if even if theperson is off the wall and just
well, I hired them.
So, you know, it there'ssomething, whether it's
compensation, culture,appreciation, all the things I
don't know about myself, I thinkthat's the hardest thing and the

(51:15):
best thing about owning abusiness is learning from those
moments, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 (51:19):
Well, and I I think that's key.
We were talking about, you know,things and meetings and and
kickoffs.
Um, I and again, it makes forlonger meetings.
So I have always been the personwho's like, yep, our Monday
morning meeting, you know, let'sblock it out for 45 because I
might say 30, but it's gonna go45 because you know, we get to
talking about some other thingsand some squirrel moments, and I
think that's the connectivetissue.

(51:41):
And that connective tissue isum, you know, what was your
favorite Halloween costume?

SPEAKER_00 (51:48):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (51:48):
What's your favorite, you know, Christmas or
Hanukkah memory?
Um, what's you know, your likejust kind of funny, random,
out-of-the-bucket questions thatyou know you can kind of rotate
around the team, who comes upwith a question and who
initiates that part of themeeting?
Um, so everybody, you know, getsan opportunity to take ownership

(52:09):
and have a little fun withthings.
And their answer, I still tothis moment, I can tell you uh
an employee who doesn't like anycondiments.
Like the question was, what'swhat's the favorite, you know,
what's the favorite condimentyou put on your sandwich?
She's like, I don't likecondiments, not ketchup.

SPEAKER_00 (52:25):
It was like, what?
You mean none of them?

SPEAKER_01 (52:28):
Right?
Um, I can tell you stories aboutum employees 20 years ago who
had uh their f getting theirfirst bike, the memory of
getting their first bike andgetting on their first bike.
Um I can tell like things thatare that again, that connective
tissue that may not tell youlike it's not counseling,
they're not telling you I'mhaving a really hard day right
now because I had a fight withmy husband and da da da.

(52:49):
You don't need all that.
You need the connective tissue.
What makes you tick?
What were your building blocks?
What are some of your fondestmemories?
Why is it fond?
What's your favorite, you know,tradition for such and such?
And then you can bring some ofthose things to the table and
surprise those people in inplaces where maybe the the
culture feels a littlefragmented and you need to bring
it back together.

SPEAKER_00 (53:10):
That's such a powerful uh masterclass is the
only word that comes to mindbecause as you're giving those
examples out, I know my audienceis going, oh yeah, I do some of
that, I could do more, or Idon't do any of that.
You know, one of the greatest uhindicators of a culture for me
is who is planning and showingup to the company parties.
You know, it's you know, like inthe early days, I remember
going, like, hey guys, we'regonna take everyone out to

(53:32):
dinner.
Don't worry, it's just gonna bean hour and a half, and I'm
gonna give you prizes.
And everyone's like, oh, do wehave to?
No.
Versus the end of my career ofthat physical therapy business
where someone else was planningit and um and they're like, hey,
we really want to do this bigthing for the people, can we get
budget approval for that?
And and you know, so and so iswanting to bring their friends.
Is it okay if he brings hisfriends?
You're like, oh my gosh, likethe difference that's a good

(53:55):
indicator right there.

SPEAKER_01 (53:56):
If people love their company and their team so much
that they want to bring theirspouse, their kids, their
friends, knocked it out of thepark.
Well done.

SPEAKER_00 (54:04):
Yeah, and I will say, I think everyone who's
listening to your Amy is going,how do I work for Amy?

SPEAKER_01 (54:11):
It's not working for Amy, it's working for yourself
and working for a team and aculture.
And then, you know, we I justget to come along and and serve
and be a part of it.

SPEAKER_00 (54:19):
Did you guys hear that?
Listen to that.
Like, there's so many layers.
We can have a whole like podcaston her answer to that comment
that I made that we coulddissect.
But Amy, listen, it's been sogreat to have you on the show.
We're gonna do some rapid-firequestions here towards the end.
Okay.
Um, I love these, they're super,super fun.
Uh, maybe along the lines ofwhat you were just describing a
little bit there.
Maybe, and maybe one of thosequestions is to tell me a story

(54:41):
about the picture behind you.
I'm just kidding.
All right, so the first thefirst one is what's a book
recently that you've read that'sblown your mind in the last year
or two.

SPEAKER_01 (54:49):
Oh my gosh.
Uh blowing my mind.
So many.
I read a lot, a lot of books.
Uh, was was uh recently in anindustry where people were
sending me all of their books.
Uh like I I can't catch up, Ican't read enough books.
Um a book that I could so theLet Them Theory Mel Robbins was

(55:13):
a big one for me.
Um and it was something that wasbig for my family, so I got to
share that with them.

SPEAKER_00 (55:21):
Um I that's a big one.
That's a big one.
One of my key executives, I justasked for her to read it, even
though I haven't uh because Ijust felt like that was
something that's useful.
I've gotten seen so many MelRobbins videos, she's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 (55:34):
So I just recently was driving home from the
airport, and somebody driving infront of me had let them as
their um license plate.
So I had to take a littlepicture and send that off.

SPEAKER_00 (55:44):
Oh, I thought maybe it was Mel Robbins.

SPEAKER_01 (55:46):
No, I well, but no, she needs to have this photo.
I just think like that's youknow, I the the story behind uh
or what's going on with thatkind of movement is the number
of people who are gettingtattoos, physical tattoos that
say let them.
And uh it's become quite thequite the movement.
So yeah, I would say let themhad a had a huge impact um on

(56:07):
the you know the personalitytrait of mine that is still a
little bit of a control freak.
Yeah um, you know, uh stillinsecure, like you know, did I
do this the right way?
Why is this happening?
Why are, you know, what's goingon in this scenario?
Let them.

SPEAKER_00 (56:25):
Let them it's okay.
Okay.
All right, here's my nextquestion.
What is a culture buildingwhat's what what's a good use of
a hundred dollars or less thathas that can build your culture
in a company?

SPEAKER_01 (56:39):
Oh, I love I love a good scavenger hunt.
Um, I that's so cheesy and oldschool, but I love a good
scavenger hunt, whether it's anonline scavenger hunt or like
physically, if you're all in anarea um and you can do something
like that, you're not all youknow, 100% virtual.
I mean, it's virtually free.
And the fun that comes out ofit, I mean, you know, go to

(57:00):
7-Eleven and slurp down aSlurpee in you know 30 seconds
and go to Target and buy a youknow$1.50 puzzle in the discount
aisle and make a puzzle, youknow, at the at the table and
take a picture of it and youknow, uh go ask this team the
history of this story.
Go ask, you know, so simplelittle things, but um any kind

(57:21):
of teamwork I feel like is sofun.
But I will tell you another onethat I love, love, love.
Um uh I used to call it GeniusHour.
And genius hour costs uh dependson how how much you have how
many people you have on yourteam, but a quick, you know, ice
cream run or something so thatthe whole team, whole company is
uh in a in a physical spacetogether.

(57:42):
Um but you could also do itvirtually, uh, and maybe it's
not ice cream, just saying youwant it to be.
And the question is uh, youknow, you just pose a company
challenge that doesn't haveanything to do with a specialty
or a human being.
How do we make our clients feelmore special?
Hmm.
What ideas do you have?

(58:03):
One hour.
It's rapid fire, one hour, it'sexploring ideas, no idea is a
bad idea, you get ideas from youknow, IT about uh customer
service, you get ideas fromcustomer service about IT.
So people get out of theirdefining blocks and just feel
like they're contributing to theoutcome.

SPEAKER_00 (58:23):
Oh, that is such a good answer.
Okay.
Um, next question.
You get in a space, you get in atime machine, you go 20 years in
the future, and you meet futureAmy.
What's the first thing thatfuture Amy says to you in terms
of gratitude about who you aretoday?

SPEAKER_01 (58:39):
Oh gosh.
Um, I do.
I visit her as much as Ipossibly can.

SPEAKER_00 (58:44):
I thought you did, especially with your protein
group that you're in.
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (58:47):
I do.
Uh yeah, I get on a spaceshipand I go to the future, and uh
and I'm so, so grateful lookingback.
And and the advice is um takegratitude every step of the way,
even probably more from the painpoints than the things that seem
easily good and easy to um feelgratitude for.

(59:08):
Dig for the gratitude in the inthe toughest times because all
those are the building blocksand you've done it the right
way.

SPEAKER_00 (59:15):
Love that answer.
Okay, last question.
Now it's the reverse.
You're going back in back intime 20 years.
Yeah.
What is something about youngyounger Amy that you appreciate
today?

SPEAKER_01 (59:32):
Um I feel like uh younger Amy um was on a mission
to um help people and helppeople connect.
And I appreciate now lookingback that that was such a driver
because here in in kind of themid area of my leadership

(59:52):
career, I wanna say I don't wantto say we're like where we are
in that timeline.
More mature area of myliterature development.
Um, that has returned to be uhlike the the the driver for me
is just connect great peoplewith great people and great
things happen.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:12):
Okay.
Well, Amy, you've been just atreat.
This has been one of my personalfavorite episodes.
You are a phenomenal.
Because I give you.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:19):
You just talk to yourself for an hour.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:21):
I'd like to take a lot of credit that we're
similar, but I don't I look upto you.
I think there's so much that youbring to the table that's
powerful and it is yourauthenticity with your focus of
making a difference in theworld.
And I'm confident as people arelistening, they're gonna want to
get in touch with you forvarious purposes.
What can you can you is thereanything you can do?
Is there anything you're workingon that would serve them?
You know, anything from a bookthat you're writing to like a

(01:00:43):
you know, where you're working,or is there just like a piece of
contact that you can give themin case they need to reach out
to you on something?

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:49):
Yeah, I mean, I think uh if you check out this
episode, you'll have all of mycontact information uh on from a
social media perspective.
Do reach out.
I would love, I like I said, I'mon a mission to just meet
incredible people and connectincredible people to other
incredible people and see whathappens.
Um, but yeah, no, I'm I'm kindof uh in a space where I'm I'm
in my connection phase.

(01:01:10):
So if you uh think that you'vegot someone or something or
very, you know, uh we'll sayspecifics, like, hey, you
mentioned this, I'm looking forsomebody I can learn from, you
know, this, or I'm looking forthis kind of a connection.
Um, that's I feel like that'sthe mission I'm on right now.
So, you know, reach out anytime.
Uh, podcasts, I'll be bringingpodcasts back here in the

(01:01:30):
future.
So look for that.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:31):
Are you really?

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:32):
Yeah, it's gotta be it's it's one of my most
favorite things is meetingpeople and just learning from
their experiences.
Uh, I think that's how you grow.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:41):
So I am so excited because I know a little bit
behind the scenes that we can'tget into here about your
previous experience, and I'm soexcited you're doing that.
The world needs your podcast.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:52):
Oh, thanks.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:54):
Well, Amy, thank you for being on the show again.
Yeah, it's been such a pleasure.
And and Rockstars, thank you fortuning in.
I am so grateful.
As always, this is WillHumphreys reminding you to live
with purpose, lead with love,and never give up.
Until next time.