April 1, 2025 • 39 mins
What makes a great leader? In this conversation, Sean Healy dives deep into leadership development, company culture, and the power of embracing failure as a learning opportunity. Sean Healy shares powerful insights on the following:
- How transparency, accountability, and structured communication shape high-performing teams. Learn
- Why feedback is the foundation of trust,
- How SOPs keep teams aligned
- Why cultural fit is critical for long-term success.
If you're a leader, manager, or business owner looking to drive business growth and employee satisfaction, this episode is a must-listen.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome back, rock stars, to another episode.
Today we're featuring SeanHealy, the CEO of Accounted For.
But this episode, guys, is sofun.
We're talking about leadershipdevelopment and how we develop
independent leaders, and thename of this episode?
I don't know what it's going tobe yet.
I'll probably have it figuredout later but it's basically
discussing the F word inbusiness, which is failure.
(00:31):
His company has a culturearound failure that I've never
seen and it's going to be apowerful episode as you learn
about how he's built a team ofpeople that feel so safe that
they get up every day and theywant to come to work.
Now, obviously, that's noteveryone every day, but he
qualifies it based on this.
(00:51):
My new favorite quote of culturein a company, which is company
culture, is the feeling youremployees get on the Sunday
night before coming to work.
Man does that hit me hard inthis episode, and he talks about
how we eliminate all theresistance in our employees'
lives by making failuresomething we celebrate.
And if you don't believe me,listen.
(01:13):
By the end you'll be a believer.
Enjoy the show, okay.
So, sean, as you're buildingyour company, leadership is key,
absolutely.
So let's talk about leadershipdevelopment from your
perspective.
What has that journey been likefor you, developing leaders at
Accounted For?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Okay.
So developing leaders is justlike developing any other
employee.
There's a lot of failureinvolved.
I mean, one of the things thatwe do that I think was really
important and it's a key pieceof our culture, a key piece of
our development is we encouragefailure.
We talk about failure everysingle day, really, when we kick
(01:51):
off our team meetings.
We do team meetings Tuesday,wednesday, thursday.
So I meet with my leadershipteam every Monday just as a
kickoff strategy.
How is everything in eachdepartment going?
Tuesday, wednesday, thursday?
Everybody jumps on a quick call.
We go what were our successes?
And we let everybody talk frombottom up what were our failures
(02:11):
, bottom up, every single time.
And then we talk about whatneeds to get done that day, if
anybody needs help.
We talk about stuff what'sgoing to happen the next day,
the next day, is there anythingthat we need to be aware of?
But by throwing failures in andmaking failures something that
you celebrate, it changes howtransparent employees are.
It changes how people lead.
(02:33):
It opens up the door to just alot of unique growth.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
I love that, sean, and it's interesting because I
listen, I've, I've, I've readthe books good to great and they
talk about making it safe forfailure, but I've never heard
the concept, the way you'redescribing it, to where you're
leaning into it, like it'sbrought up repeatedly as an item
to be celebrated in that regard, because that's going to
(02:59):
completely change the game interms of just how people feel
safe about it.
So, literally every day, youremployees will say here's my
successes and here's where Ifailed.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Oh, yeah, I mean to a degree where, like we, we, we
like it's something.
People I'm not gonna say theyget excited about talking about
failures, but yeah, we, everysingle day, if there's a failure
, it's something that's beingbrought up and it's hey, I
learned, or I failed, but thisis what I learned not to do
again.
Now, obviously, if somebodyfails the same way every single
day, you have to go about it alittle differently at some point
(03:30):
.
But overall, a lot of times thequickest way to learn is to
fail right.
You need to put certain safetynets.
You have to have checks andbalances right.
A failure can't drasticallyimpact a client, but doing
something incorrectly andknowing you have the right
checks and balances.
I want my team to come and trynew things.
(03:51):
I want them to fail becausewhen they fail they're going to
learn and they're going to growfaster than everybody else.
If you're willing to putyourself out there, it's the
easiest way to grow as aprofessional.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Well, there's probably no other way to grow
right.
There's like um, one of myfavorite mentors once told me a
story about someone that made amistake that cost him tens of
thousands of dollars and the wayhe handled it.
He told me this and he wasn'tbragging, he was just a nat, and
he's a huge success.
He has multiple hospitals notlike you know, like his
hospitals plural and he's and hetold me.
(04:25):
He said this person made thismistake, but I knew, he said.
He said I knew they were tryingtheir best and that they were
very competent, otherwise, theywere taking on something new,
very challenging, and itresulted in this massive failure
.
He put his arm around them andgo.
Well, that was the best moneyI've ever spent.
And this person in tears is likewhat are you talking about?
And he goes.
Well, I have to pay to learnand I either pay coaches, or I
(04:47):
pay companies or consultants orwhatever he goes, or I pay
through experience and he goes.
Now I have an employee whoknows how to handle this the
right way.
He goes.
In the end, that's going tomake me the next million dollars
and I can only imagine, sean,how your employees feel when
they're not only just safe toshare it.
(05:07):
But they have a leader thatbelieves in them enough to put
their arm around them and gogood for you, good for you.
Let's celebrate that fact.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
You have to live up to it too.
When somebody makes a failure,you have to stop.
Leadership has to be aligned.
I forget what the book was, butthey say that culture is kind
of what your direct team is your, your direct team.
So in larger companies,managers play such a key role in
culture because the companymight have a good culture, but
if your team doesn't, then thatemployee's perception is that
(05:37):
the company doesn't have a goodculture.
And when something does gowrong, it's taking a deep breath
and it's reminding yourselfthat this is a learning
experience and there's positivesof when you create that type of
culture.
I found If something goes wrong,I want to know about it quickly
.
I don't want somebody to be soscared that they're not going to
bring something up, especiallyin the finance world.
If something goes wrong, youneed to know about it and get on
(06:02):
top of it right away.
Now, once again, there's a lotof processes and we put a lot of
double checks in place, so it'svery difficult to have a
catastrophic failure right, butespecially when accounting firms
are, there's constant hackingattempts and there's all these
different things that can gowrong, having an environment
where somebody's like well,immediately bring it up to you
(06:23):
or really immediately bring itto light.
It just gives you the abilityto do something about it if and
when that scenario happens.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Well, yeah, and I think that there's this inherent
accountability that thatculture creates when you make it
safe for people to promotetheir failures.
Because, first of all, failureis the ultimate F word in
business for a lot of companies'cultures, meaning they don't
talk about it, they don't wantto look at it.
Their employees are constantlyjust trying to like up, manage
their, their direct reports byshowing them all the great
(06:52):
things that they've done withoutyou know, in hiding and putting
under rug every little thingthat's done.
But what the problem with thatis is that it promotes even good
people from to becomingunethical and they're out of
integrity and how they act,because integrity isn't good or
bad, it's just the balance ofthose things.
So if we're not providing thefailures and mistakes to our
direct reports, then we're nottelling them the whole story,
(07:12):
and I've learned in my owncompanies then you get a culture
, especially in remote companies, of people who start
snowballing and they startwatching Netflix and hiding it.
And there's a difference, Ithink, in failure between effort
and rebellion.
Like rebellion, failure iswhere they're just not trying,
they're trying to cheat thesystem.
Effort, effortful mistakes islike is, is like what we should
(07:36):
love and nurture and shownothing but kindness and mercy
on the way that you do.
But I think it's the intentionbehind it, sometimes Like yes,
have you ever had anyone likecome clean on, like other stuff,
like yeah, I checked in, but Ididn't do anything?
I don't know, that probablydoesn't show up in a team
meeting sense, but have you everhad employees do that?
Speaker 2 (07:54):
So I mean, it's a good question.
We do one-on-ones, we try tokeep teams in groups of six.
We try not to get over that andyou know when it just we find
that it's hard to manage morethan like five people at any one
point in time right.
We do one-on-ones each week andI think sometimes there's times
(08:15):
where you see something's goingwrong and because you're okay
with talking about failures, youknow you kind of wait for them
to bring it up, even though youprobably have a good idea that
something's going on.
There's been a few times whereyou know you can see something's
happening and you can call itout.
We try not to do it in anattacking way.
We don't want anybody to getdefensive.
So one of the biggest I thinkit was Brene Brown had a good
(08:38):
quote and one of my employeesbrought it up to me saying hey,
I think this is a better way forus to communicate with our team
when it's something emotionalor when we need to call
something out.
It's the story I'm tellingmyself is this, and so what you
do is you say what you'rethinking, but you throw the
story of what the story I'mtelling myself is, because this
is what's in my brain.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yeah, the story in my head is that you are busy and
yeah, yeah, yeah story in myhead is that you are busy and,
yeah, yeah, yeah, you startdescribing the subjective,
unproven facts in a way thathelps them feel like there's
some safe distance from it.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
And a lot of times you'll start to understand that,
yeah, there's somethinghappening, hey, I am getting a
little lazy, hey, I don't knowwhy, but I've been waking up a
little late or I've just beenreally overwhelmed, or I just
haven't been happy recently, andit you can kind of get past
that smoke screen and you canactually just have a real
conversation with the person,figure out what's going on and
see what you can do to help.
You know it.
(09:31):
Just let's say it comes down tointention.
You have to.
You know the goal is, if you'regoing to put somebody on a
performance plan, it's not toget them out of the company.
When you put them on aperformance plan, it's to help
them perform and make sureyou're giving them all the tools
that they need or support thatthey need to be a top performer.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Yeah, I love that and I love the way that you
described this.
One of my previous guests saidsomething that has stayed with
me.
It was the idea that we want togive our employees the benefit
of the doubt is one of thegreatest techniques we can ever
do.
Now, there's a differencebetween that and not being firm
on what's right and having thosehard conversations.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Avoiding confrontation.
Yeah Right.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Oh, they're probably just tired.
It's like, no, I'm going totalk to them about it and we're
going to talk about the outcomesobjectively, like, hey, this
isn't being met, we're notskirting around that issue.
But what we're saying is, hey,listen, I don't know what's
going on, but I trust you.
I sense from you something elsemight be going on, and I really
want to help you with that,because I had one employee once,
(10:32):
sean, that we were missingmoney from our cash pay bin at
the front of our desk, and everyweek we would just notice $10
was missing here and there, andwhoever it was didn't know that.
I was aware of it, and so westarted tracking it.
I was trying to catch theperson.
I did, I eventually caught theperson, and when I confronted
(10:52):
this individual to fire him, Iwas pretty just black and white
about it.
I wasn't a jerk.
I just said, hey, listen, thisis done, we're finished.
I saw you stealing from me.
I know you're stealing from me,we're finished.
And I said I won't call thecops if you just walk away right
now and I never hear from youagain.
And he came back to me threeyears later and he showed up at
(11:12):
the door.
He's like I was desperate.
I want you to know I'm sorry,I'll pay you back.
I was desperate.
He kind of went through it andI just thought, wow, even when
the most heinous acts are beingdone, there's a human element to
it.
Somewhere, rarely, I think, dopeople act out of pure malice?
So I know we've talked aboutthe extreme version of people
like failing because ofrebellion or like stealing, but
(11:36):
I just think it's nice tobalance that, because in your
team, people are able to do that.
So what's the result for you?
What have you heard from theteam that you've worked with
(11:57):
about that in terms of how theyfeel about talking about their
fears?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
I've gotten nothing but positive feedback on it.
I think initially it can be alittle difficult and, mind you,
our clients, we have the sameconversations.
So when we meet with ourclients once a month to talk
about finance, we also ask whatwere our successes last month,
what were our failures lastmonth?
It's meant to driveself-awareness right and you're
a little uncomfortable in thebeginning.
(12:20):
It's a muscle that you kind ofhave to utilize, right?
But once the team starts usingit, what I find intriguing and
when I know that it's startingto work is when I do a
one-on-one.
I ask what the failure was orwhat the success was, and their
response is you know it's funnyI was thinking about this last
night and what that means isthey're going through their week
(12:42):
, they're trying to figure outintentionally yeah.
It's that proactive mindsetRight, and so I.
I, when I hear stuff like that,I know what's working right.
When they know what their focuswas from last week and they
they tie it into the one-on-onelike they're, they're being
intentional, so it's.
I've I've seen it work reallywell.
I've even had instances wherewe've brought people on
(13:04):
part-time and it was probablythe biggest compliment I've ever
received.
We had somebody that came onpart-time, called me up one day
and was like I want to come onfull-time.
I know it's not something wediscussed yet, but the culture
on your team there's just such,it's so different.
It's so just like refreshing.
I want to be a part of thisteam and like that's that's what
(13:31):
I want to, that's what I like,that's the the end result right,
you want to have a good placethat you're working at.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
I mean, yeah, you want to be happy and you spend
most of your life in this placecalled work Cause you have to
eat, yeah, so, like, whywouldn't you want to work
somewhere that you're you're,you love and you're happy?
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Yeah, let me remind you, it's a bookkeeping and
accounting company.
It's not the most fun, it's notthe most sexy Not Disneyland,
yeah.
But when you can show up towork, you enjoy the people you
work with.
Yeah, even if selfishly, you'regoing to do a better job,
(14:02):
you're going to care, and that'snot something that you can just
throw money at people and saycare, you have to put the right
structure in place.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
You have to put the right culture in place.
Well, you know, I I saidDisneyland kind of, you know,
tongue in cheek because you weretalking about hey, we're an
accounting firm and physicaltherapists you know, we're in
there from a physical therapyowner perspective I could.
I think the people listening tothis are like, yeah, how could
that be cool?
But what I've learned is whatyou already know, which is that
you can have that culturalexperience in any business where
you're making a difference.
Cause who doesn't needaccounting?
(14:34):
Who doesn't man dude theheadaches I was telling you
about before this call, I wentthrough four different companies
and I just none of them werespecialized in PT.
It was this constant like likedo I really have to deal with
this crap?
Like, why do I have to dealwith money?
But what it's interesting islike that culture makes a
difference.
And so you I think that maybeyou guys are the Disneyland of
accounting companies because youhave a culture where people
(14:55):
feel safe and have fun Puttingthat on the website.
That's a Disneyland ofaccounting firms.
My medical billing company thatI was running for all those
years I used to laugh at how funit was, because when I, you
know, when I tell people I'm aphysical therapist, they're like
I still kind of do, honestlyCause people are like, oh wow,
look at you.
But when I say I am an owner ofa medical billing company or
(15:17):
now it's a virtual assistantcompany, people go okay,
whatever who cares, especiallyPTs who are like that's so
boring.
But dude, my billers back inthe day they were just like the
they would.
They would high five, like wegot more money from Aetna.
Heck yeah, stick it to the manHigh five.
It was super fun and I justthere's passion in anywhere that
there's product right and whatyou guys produce is so valuable,
(15:39):
you produce more.
I mean, it's always like thewhat and the why, but I remember
what I've heard from my common.
Oh, by the way, this is true,this isn't just for the episode
today.
One of our common clients wason a call on Wednesday of this
week and she was talking abouthow she said this was the first
year ever that she started theyear without feeling doom and
(16:00):
gloom.
She goes I know where mynumbers are, I know what I have.
That's why it's fun, becauseit's not about the numbers, it's
about this therapist ownerwho's amazing, by the way, super
talented, taking fear and painaway from her and encouraging
her to go out there and grow herpractice and change people's
lives.
Dude, how cool is that?
Speaker 2 (16:20):
It's great.
I mean some of the feedback weget from clients.
Some of the feedback we getfrom clients.
I don't even understand how weget some of the compliments we
get and I'm not saying we'reperfect in any way, shape or
form.
But I'll hear from some of ourclients being like I can't tell
(16:42):
you how much I appreciate yourteam.
Or when it's compliments on myteam, I take that to just like
it's the ultimate compliment.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Because that's who you're focused on is developing
your leadership team?
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Yeah, I'm also very fortunate to.
I look, we can talk about theculture, but you really need
good people.
You need people that are boughtin and care and you need
legitimate people to like thatcan really take the company to
the next level.
And they, they have the hardjob.
I work for them, like I, theyare the they're, they're
fantastic.
(17:09):
I'm extremely lucky for everysingle individual on our team
and, um, they, they're thereason that it all happens.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
So I got to say.
My favorite thing about hostingthe show for me is that I feel
like this is like a hundredpercent about me learning.
My audience, of course, gets tocome along for the journey that
I get to go on personally everytime, because I I get to
experience people like you and Iget to get it from different
angles.
So the thing I'm going to shareis that I was filming another
(17:37):
episode with a PT owner who had20 locations that he built in
six years seven years, and theway you two are similar, it's
like.
So he said the same thing thatyou said.
It's like his focus.
He didn't say it in the wordsthat you did about working for
the team, but he said was likewhen I mentally shifted from I'm
not about my patients, but I'mabout my leaders and I'm about
(17:57):
making sure that they get thebest experience possible, that I
can help them grow and, yes, Ipay them well.
But he said the same thing,almost word for word, about you
can't pay people to care.
It's like what you can't butyou pay, but you still have to
pay, like that's.
The problem is, is that likethere's a, that's a component,
but it's more than that.
It's like an experience.
It's about growth and all thethings that you just talked
(18:18):
about.
So it's fun for me because Iget the different learning of it
.
It's like, okay, so how am Idoing that?
And rock stars, how are youdoing that with your leaders,
whether you have one location oryou have 80 locations, like,
what are you doing to help pourinto your leaders?
And so that's a great, and Ithink everyone has a different
answer.
What so?
The big thing that youmentioned at beginning is this
(18:38):
idea of taking the F word out offear.
Obviously, that's one way thatyou grow your leaders is by
helping them learn to grow inthe organic way.
What are other things that youdo to show your leaders that you
care or build them, to growthem?
All the things that you thinkabout, what do you do, sean?
Speaker 2 (18:55):
I'd say.
One of the other things that Itry to do is I am always asking
them what I can do better.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
You model, you model feedback.
Yeah, I want to know if there'ssomething in our company that
needs to change or needs toimprove.
And if you're not going tochange yourself, how can you
expect everybody else to?
So I try to get as muchfeedback as possible, now, mind
(19:23):
you, it doesn't mean that we'regoing to change every time we
get a piece of feedback right.
There's key things.
You have to know when to say no.
You have to make sure thatcertain things align, certain
things don't.
But I think a key piece of itis you have to accept the
feedback, but you also have totrust them to make decisions.
I mean, I'm sure you're awareof this, and anybody that runs a
(19:54):
company knows how hard it is todelegate and knows how hard it
is to trust other people withmaybe taking the wheel and maybe
going in the wrong direction.
The amount of times that I'velet my team make a decision and
I just backed them, you know,hey, let's see how it goes.
All right, like I might notagree, but I think this is a
good opportunity for us to learn.
You know, and a lot of timeswhat will happen is, all of a
sudden things get that muchbetter, you know, and just
trying to make sure that youhave a good understanding and a
good gauge for what they need tobe successful.
(20:16):
Like perfect example, we'vedone a culture index.
I don't know if you ever heardof culture index.
Love it.
Okay, I thrive in chaoticenvironments.
Every single person on my teamworks better in structured
environments.
I am not good at buildingstructure, so I mind you.
(20:37):
Now we, we we have a lot ofstructure.
It's something I had to put alot of time and energy into
getting better at, but I didn'tdo it all alone.
But I didn't do it all alone, itwas the team, it was constant
feedback.
It was how do we improve this,even when someone was working?
Could it work better?
It's sometimes putting some ofthose pieces in place standard
operating procedures, a projectmanagement system, simple things
(21:00):
.
Who would have guessed?
I don't know how we ran ourcompany pre some of those items.
We, when we do our likeone-on-ones, we laugh about it
sometimes, like, do you rememberthe day when we didn't have
mondaycom?
Like it's?
You know those things go a verylong way.
You got to ask the question,you got to be open to it and you
need to prioritize what's thebiggest thing that I can impact
(21:23):
in my company Cause, as a leader, your job is to target the
biggest thing that's going todrive the most change and that
has to be your focus.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
You have to do all the other jobs too but it has to
be your focus.
Yeah, I can hear my rock starsasking about some of these
softwares and things likemoneycom.
I know what that is.
So when you talk about SOPs orstandard operating procedures or
playbooks, as sometimes they'recalled, or when you think about
different structural piecesthat have been vital to you,
(21:51):
have you seen?
You may not know, but, like forPT practices specifically, have
you seen anything that you haveseen work well in your PT
practices to help them createthat same structure?
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Oh, absolutely.
Cadence of communication withyour team Number one.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
What do you recommend ?
Like, what do you think?
Speaker 2 (22:10):
I think that everybody should have at least a
one-on-one every single week.
Even if it's a 15 minuteone-on-one, it should be a quick
check-in.
Same structured meeting everysingle week.
Nothing gets, nothing getsscheduled over one-on-ones.
So a manager meets with theirteam, you meet with your
leadership team.
If you don't have a weeklycadence, you're you're.
You're playing the game at adisadvantage.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
How do you?
What's the?
What's the structure of thatone-on-one, that 15 minute
one-on-one?
Speaker 2 (22:36):
So we use something similar to an action review.
So the action action review isvery similar to our action
review.
Is what, like the army, theNavy use?
It's what usually highperforming teams use.
What went well or what was thefocus?
What went well?
What didn't go well?
What's the focus for the nextweek?
Or we do it as, as I mentionedearlier what was your focus?
What were our successes thisweek?
Where were our failures?
What's our focus this comingweek?
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Oh man.
So it's very like resultsdriven.
It's very much like you knowcause we could talk.
So how are you doing?
Oh man, I just woke up kind ofin it's like versus, like what
went well, what didn't?
Where was your focus?
What went well, what didn't,and what are you focusing on now
?
I love that because it gets tothat point.
I don't think it needs to takea lot of time.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
No, we do 30 minutes.
Where I do 30 minutes with myleadership team each week, my
managers do it with the accountmanagers each week and each week
and, as I said, sometimes it isjust like a this was just a bad
week, I had a bad week and it'slike okay, you know, that's
okay, right, what can we do tomake sure we're set up for a
good week next week?
You know, you can, you can kindof take that step back and try
(23:35):
to move some of the emotion outof it and just what's in our
realm of control, right?
Like some of those simplethings that you read in all the
hundred thousand business booksor leadership books.
It's just asking thosequestions sometimes and just
putting it into a very good,structured format.
It just keeps you on the samepage with your team and when you
fall off, it's like a highway,right.
(23:55):
When you get off the highway,how quickly can you get back on,
right?
Speaker 1 (24:00):
I like that because you started with meeting rhythms
for structure.
When people leave a companythey don't like what's the
number one cliche thing thateveryone says oh they, they were
, they were, communication washorrible, like so.
So the what's the one way tochange it?
Communication, and I would, Iwould argue, rock struck stars.
As you're listening to this, ifyou're struggling somewhere in
your business, maybe there's a,there's probably not, maybe
(24:22):
there's a probable out out pointin your company around
communication, and I love thatthing that Sean just highlighted
this, this uh, one-on-onestructure that allows you to
connect, uh, what else would yourecommend, sean?
You're on a.
You're on a roll bud.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
No, I just some standard operating procedures.
You know if, something assimple as before somebody walks
out of your office, you know,are we scheduling all the
meetings for the rest of theirplan of care, right?
Is there something tracking howmany people are walking out the
door without scheduling all 14,16, 18?
(24:56):
Are they just scheduling thenext two and then leaving?
Those little things go a very,very long way.
If you want your billing teamto do something, do you have
those processes written out?
You know, because if all of asudden they're coming, if your
employees are coming to youasking question after question
after question and you're givingthe same answer after answer
after answer, you are wastingtime.
(25:17):
It can be something as simpleas did you look for the standard
operating procedure, yet Didyou look for the SOP?
Oh, there isn't one.
All right, we're going to talkabout it, but you're going to go
and write this SOP next and thenext time somebody comes it's
not going to give you the answer.
Did you go check the SOPs, right?
And little by little it's amountain, but little by little
(25:38):
you start having thisinformation that your team can
access.
It doesn't all have to be inyour head, right, and it also
doesn't always have to be yourway.
They're meant like by thembeing in charge of the SOPs they
might bring improvements thatyou never thought of.
It doesn't have to be your ideato be a good idea, you know.
So it's just.
It's just that it's gettinginto that consistent cadence.
(25:59):
It just it makes a world ofdifference over the course of
time.
It's going to be annoying for aweek or two, for a couple
months, but little by little, bylittle, you know, people become
more self-sufficient.
The information's already there, you know, it's just.
You start to see someincremental improvement that way
.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
I like the way you described development and living
of SOPs as a habit development.
I like that you describe itthat way.
It's almost like that'd be agreat book title, right, the
Habit of SOPs.
Because people think of it assomething that they have or they
don't.
They don't realize they'reliving documents that are meant
to be collaborated and createdby the people who are running
(26:39):
them.
And the way you describe thatdevelopment of that frustration
from personal validation of whatyou just said.
When we did our physical therapy, when we grew our physical
therapy practice, when westarted getting multiple
locations, that's when westarted SOPs Interesting.
We called them playbooks, likethe PT playbook, the front and
vest playbook.
Yeah, and they were just SOPs.
(27:01):
And it was so funny becauseeventually, when we sold, one of
the big things that shocked mewas that the SOPs were part of
what they were buying.
It was like that, yes, theywere buying the revenue, but
it's the systems that they careabout next to the revenue,
because the people are variableand, yes, they do care about
people, but they were third inthe mix.
So when I started one of mycompanies after selling, it was
(27:24):
weird.
I remember we were starting andit was like, okay, let's write
this down.
Where are we putting our GoogleDoc?
Because in the early days wedidn't have softwares like
Trainual, if you've heard ofthose guys.
So the software you can useright now for and I'm plugging
train you all for those of youwho are like where could I go to
help do this train you allteaches you how to create sops
and it creates a centralizedplatform that even tracks people
(27:44):
in their training.
So when you have sops, you cansee if they're answering the
quizzes right and if they'vedone the training.
But in the beginning it wasjust a google doc and it's just
like, like you start writingokay, I figured out a problem,
write it down, and it's.
It's such an annoying step.
Every time, Sean, for me I'mlike, oh, I have to write this
down, but like when you get inthe habit of it, you stop
thinking about it Cause, likeyou said, then you start scaling
(28:05):
and then it's just they're,they're all doing it with you
and that document gets created.
So I love that you created youhabit of SOP creation as a
stability factor in yourleadership team.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Now let me be clear about something I did not write
all the SOPs.
No, your team didn't write you.
And I don't recommendespecially owners.
I think they say if you are avisionary type doing some of
that type of administrative work, you're not going to do a good
job at all.
And also there's a conceptcalled the curse of knowledge.
When you know so much about acertain topic, most people don't
(28:37):
even know the foundation thatall your knowledge is built on,
right?
So what happens is when youwrite an SOP, as somebody that's
been so in the weeds and knowsit, you skip like half the steps
.
And if somebody goes to try torepeat it, they're like this is
not in English, right, simpleisn't simple, right.
So having somebody that,especially if you're newer, if
(29:01):
we have our people and you'renewer go into a new client, read
the SOPs.
If they don't make sense, goput them into English, right, go
go figure out those missingsteps.
And it's once again.
It's.
It's not something you writeand you're done.
It is a constant evolution, itwill continue to change and, to
your point, it has to be a habitand it has to be something that
you know, even your managers,your leadership.
Somebody's going askingquestions?
Is there an SOP, like you knowyou have?
(29:22):
You have to be consistent aboutit to really get traction over
the course of time.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Great share.
Thank you so much for sharingthat.
Okay, so kind of reviewing.
We were talking about structurethat you were able to create
that supports your team, whichis part of that structure is an
element to the bigger discussionwe had about creating a culture
in your company for yourleaders that they love.
And so you have this meetingrhythm, which are personal,
humanizing check-ins.
You have the second that areresults driven.
(29:48):
You have the second componentof systems operations and other
things.
It may not be structure related, but if there is, I'd love to
hear about it.
But what else do you do foryour leadership team to help you
develop that culture where theyfeel super safe in failure?
Speaker 2 (30:03):
So the only other two things that I can think of we
always allow them to block.
We pick an hour each week thatthey can plan for the next week.
So Thursday end of the day,let's take a look at next week.
Let's communicate what meetingsare coming up, what do we need
to get done for there.
Let's start doing time blockingon our calendars.
Now, in accounting, we can allwork remotely.
It's a little different than PT, but let's take a PT example.
(30:26):
If every Thursday, your doctorstook a look or your clinic
directors took a look, whatvisits you know, how many visits
do we have next week?
What days are we missing?
Do we have gaps in the schedule?
Do we have specific people thatthere are gaps in the schedule?
You can do something about thatall day, friday.
Or you can plan hey, you knowwe want you to go do some
(30:48):
marketing.
Go do it at this time becauseyou don't have patience, right?
You can look proactively at thenext week and make little
decisions, right?
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
The other thing is just giving people permission to
say no.
I think it can be very easy,for, at least with my team, my
team always wants to try to help, so if somebody asks for help,
they'll volunteer, even thoughthey might have 10 other
priorities that day.
And the one thing we really tryto continuously like it's
constantly giving thempermission to you own your
(31:22):
calendar, those, the clientsthat you serve, like you own
those accounts.
If there's something that'smore important, don't put
something urgent beforesomething important.
Right, like I'd rather youdelegate.
You have permission to delegate.
You have permission to say no.
I tell you to do something.
I'm like I need this done.
You can turn to me and say Idon't have the time for that.
(31:42):
You know you have to give thempermission to be able to just be
authentic, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Absolutely, and you have to make that safe, because
my best leaders were able totell me no without saying no,
like I'd say.
You know, I'd never trainedthem to do that the way you're
doing.
So, like my best, I remember mybest leaders would be like okay
, so you want me to do this bythis time?
So here's what else I havegoing on.
What would you say is a biggerprice?
Like they would put it back onme in a way that it was like oh
(32:09):
well, the other thing, okay,great, so what needs to shift?
I'll go?
Oh, I'm not going to give thatto you.
And I remember, after the fourthor fifth time going oh, they're
telling me no in the mostrespectful, kind way, but not
everyone has that skill.
So, being able to and, ofcourse, to counterbalance it,
you're not saying people have aright to go.
No, I don't feel like doingthat.
It's a matter of helping.
(32:30):
Yeah, all of these things arepredicated upon the foundation,
like you said earlier, of havingthe right people.
When you don't have the rightpeople, all these things don't
work, and it doesn't matter howhard we try to put these systems
in place.
In my experience it's like ifwe have C players in our team.
(32:50):
It's only a matter of timebefore anything positive we try
to put in crumbles becausethey're actively destroying it
or unintentionally destroying it.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Yeah, when you have players like that, unfortunately
, you have to part ways.
If they're not a culture fit,you have to part ways.
Some of the clients that Ithink are most successful will
brag about how, hey, we actuallylet PTs go this month.
That's our success because theywere not a culture fit.
You know, when a lot of PTs outthere are, you know we're
(33:19):
having trouble finding people.
The clients I see are mostsuccessful the ones like oh no,
no, they, they didn't meet our,they didn't fit our culture.
You know they might've been agood performer but they didn't
fit our culture.
So you know, we decided in thelong run it would be best to be
part ways, like, yeah, that's asign of like, you're going to do
big things.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Because that's the hardest thing to do, and right
is to like, hey, especially inthe service based industry,
where if that therapist fire, ifthe owner fires a therapist,
their world gets worse in termsof time not in terms of quality,
though, because getting rid ofthe other person is much better
for quality, but there's adefinite increase in like who's
going to take those patients andall that.
And I love that you say that,because I think one of the most
(34:01):
courageous things that we couldever do is is take a stand for
what our values really are aboutby firing people who aren't a
fit.
So so I think a lot of peoplelisten to episodes like this,
looking for that trick.
Okay, I, my leadership isn'ttotally dialed in.
Okay, so Sean's talking aboutstability.
Let's learn more about like.
Oh yeah, the SOP thing and likeall these things, but like, at
the end of the day, those arethe structures, those are the
(34:23):
pillars, built upon thatfoundation of people that you
mentioned at the beginning.
Yeah, and no one ever isperfect at this, but your team,
I can feel it, has this likecore culture of like.
They probably even helpedeliminate those people, because
of your company culture.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
Like if someone joined who wasn't a fit, your
whole team would probably catchit pretty quick and even you
stick out like you stick outlike a sore thumb.
Yeah, I mean, which is great,which is exactly what you want.
But it's on them to look as asour company continues to grow.
It's on them to make sure that,like, the culture stays the
same.
It's on them that when somebodydoes has a failure, that they
don't get.
You know, when they getpromoted to be a manager, you
don't slap somebody on the wrist.
When there is failure, you'renot.
(35:02):
You know you have to live by itas well.
And if I ever hit a point thatI stopped doing it, it is your
job to tell me that I am doingsomething wrong and wrong and
that is not in line with theculture, and I need to look in
the mirror and make a change.
You know you need to have that.
Just that you constantly talkabout Otherwise it.
You know, when you grow, it isculture is one of the first
(35:23):
things that tends to gounfortunately, Unfortunately.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Yeah, and if anyone's like well, how do I know if my
culture is not in fit?
Well, you know, I always tellpeople like hey, if you don't
like getting to work, no oneelse is going to work.
Happy either.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
I heard a great line Culture is the feeling in your
employee's stomach on Sundaynight.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Oh my gosh, that's the best quote on culture I've
ever heard.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
I heard it and I was like I will never forget this
one-liner.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
I got chills, man, because I was just with my son
on Sunday night.
They were going back to schoolright after Christmas break and
they were having their Sundaynight blues and I was relating
to him.
I was just kind of like, man,you know what, it doesn't go
away Sometimes.
I used to have my own company.
I remember, as an owner, youknow dreading Monday because it
was like I had a culture thatsucked.
And as as employers, we'restill employees of our company,
(36:12):
unless we're passive investors.
So we kind of get our.
We have our cultural index ofour own in our stomachs, don't
we Like those Sunday nights?
Speaker 2 (36:19):
You're definitely a prisoner of your own company at
times, but you know it's aprison of your own making.
So it's yeah, it, I, we've allhad that job, that we've had
that like pit and it's you know,and sometimes it's just asking
the team like, do you get theSunday scaries?
And and sometimes it's justasking the team like, do you get
(36:42):
the Sunday scaries?
And if you see their look likeno, and you're just like uh-oh,
all right, I need to dosomething about this, because if
that's what's happening, weneed to get to the bottom, we
need to get to understand whyand make sure that that changes
quickly, because nobody wantsthat.
You don't want people that arejust upset coming to work.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
It's just yeah, man.
Sean, this has been such agreat episode.
I can't believe how much we'vecovered in such a short amount
of time.
I want to thank you for sharingyour insights and wisdom from
building that team.
I don't think when you've neverbuilt a great experience as a
business owner, it feels likeit's impossible or anyone else
can do it.
So when I hear someone like yougo through that and again, my
(37:17):
greatest blessing is hearingmultiple touch points from
people from time to time it'sinspiring.
It's like you know, I think Iwant rock stars, as you're
listening to this, just torecognize that either A you have
this and you're going amen,brother, and you picked up some
extra kernels that you didn'thave before.
Or maybe you're a PT who'sstarting out and you don't know
where you're going, what you'rebuilding towards.
Well, this is a target for youto hit.
Or maybe you're in the middleof it with multiple teams, just
(37:39):
thinking like man, I have theSunday night scaries.
Whatever it is, it's allpossible to get to that place
where people are super happy andthey get to love, where they
work.
So, sean, if people wanted theDisneyland experience of
accounting, how could they getahold of you?
Speaker 2 (37:52):
they get ahold of you , uh, so you could always go to
our, our website, uh,wwwaccounted4,.
Uh, a-c-c-o-u-n-t-e-d, thenumber four, llccom, uh, or um,
probably just find my email,which, uh, I can, I can send
over to you.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Well, I'll put that in my show notes as well as that
website.
But, guys, rock stars, asyou're listening, you know I
never get anything out of thispersonally in terms of
financials.
I only bring services andproducts and people that inspire
me that I know are good for theindustry.
Everyone that we bring on isabout helping you discover
what's right, and not everyperson is meant for every person
, right.
Not every service is meant forevery client and so on, but I
(38:33):
only bring on people that Ieither do work with or want to
work with or would have workedwith if I had if I still had my
practice.
So, sean, it's been an absolutepleasure to have you on the
show and, yeah, thanks again forall those wonderful insights.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
No, thank you.
This has been a lot of fun.
I appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Thank you so much for taking the time to listen to
today's episode.
As a thank you, I have a gift.
In today's show notes there's alink for you to join the
Stress-Free PT newsletter.
This is a comedy newsletter foranyone who works in healthcare
and of course we're gonna havecomedy bits.
We're gonna have inspirationalstories, leadership tidbits.
It's gonna be a weeklynewsletter just to lighten your
(39:12):
week, to help you do what youlove with more passion.
So click that link below andjoin that newsletter and we'll
see you in our next episode.
Welcome back, rock stars, to another episode.
Today we're featuring SeanHealy, the CEO of Accounted For.
But this episode, guys, is sofun.
We're talking about leadershipdevelopment and how we develop
independent leaders, and thename of this episode?
I don't know what it's going tobe yet.
I'll probably have it figuredout later but it's basically
discussing the F word inbusiness, which is failure.
(00:31):
His company has a culturearound failure that I've never
seen and it's going to be apowerful episode as you learn
about how he's built a team ofpeople that feel so safe that
they get up every day and theywant to come to work.
Now, obviously, that's noteveryone every day, but he
qualifies it based on this.
(00:51):
My new favorite quote of culturein a company, which is company
culture, is the feeling youremployees get on the Sunday
night before coming to work.
Man does that hit me hard inthis episode, and he talks about
how we eliminate all theresistance in our employees'
lives by making failuresomething we celebrate.
And if you don't believe me,listen.
(01:13):
By the end you'll be a believer.
Enjoy the show, okay.
So, sean, as you're buildingyour company, leadership is key,
absolutely.
So let's talk about leadershipdevelopment from your
perspective.
What has that journey been likefor you, developing leaders at
Accounted For?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Okay.
So developing leaders is justlike developing any other
employee.
There's a lot of failureinvolved.
I mean, one of the things thatwe do that I think was really
important and it's a key pieceof our culture, a key piece of
our development is we encouragefailure.
We talk about failure everysingle day, really, when we kick
(01:51):
off our team meetings.
We do team meetings Tuesday,wednesday, thursday.
So I meet with my leadershipteam every Monday just as a
kickoff strategy.
How is everything in eachdepartment going?
Tuesday, wednesday, thursday?
Everybody jumps on a quick call.
We go what were our successes?
And we let everybody talk frombottom up what were our failures
(02:11):
, bottom up, every single time.
And then we talk about whatneeds to get done that day, if
anybody needs help.
We talk about stuff what'sgoing to happen the next day,
the next day, is there anythingthat we need to be aware of?
But by throwing failures in andmaking failures something that
you celebrate, it changes howtransparent employees are.
It changes how people lead.
(02:33):
It opens up the door to just alot of unique growth.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
I love that, sean, and it's interesting because I
listen, I've, I've, I've readthe books good to great and they
talk about making it safe forfailure, but I've never heard
the concept, the way you'redescribing it, to where you're
leaning into it, like it'sbrought up repeatedly as an item
to be celebrated in that regard, because that's going to
(02:59):
completely change the game interms of just how people feel
safe about it.
So, literally every day, youremployees will say here's my
successes and here's where Ifailed.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Oh, yeah, I mean to a degree where, like we, we, we
like it's something.
People I'm not gonna say theyget excited about talking about
failures, but yeah, we, everysingle day, if there's a failure
, it's something that's beingbrought up and it's hey, I
learned, or I failed, but thisis what I learned not to do
again.
Now, obviously, if somebodyfails the same way every single
day, you have to go about it alittle differently at some point
(03:30):
.
But overall, a lot of times thequickest way to learn is to
fail right.
You need to put certain safetynets.
You have to have checks andbalances right.
A failure can't drasticallyimpact a client, but doing
something incorrectly andknowing you have the right
checks and balances.
I want my team to come and trynew things.
(03:51):
I want them to fail becausewhen they fail they're going to
learn and they're going to growfaster than everybody else.
If you're willing to putyourself out there, it's the
easiest way to grow as aprofessional.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Well, there's probably no other way to grow
right.
There's like um, one of myfavorite mentors once told me a
story about someone that made amistake that cost him tens of
thousands of dollars and the wayhe handled it.
He told me this and he wasn'tbragging, he was just a nat, and
he's a huge success.
He has multiple hospitals notlike you know, like his
hospitals plural and he's and hetold me.
(04:25):
He said this person made thismistake, but I knew, he said.
He said I knew they were tryingtheir best and that they were
very competent, otherwise, theywere taking on something new,
very challenging, and itresulted in this massive failure
.
He put his arm around them andgo.
Well, that was the best moneyI've ever spent.
And this person in tears is likewhat are you talking about?
And he goes.
Well, I have to pay to learnand I either pay coaches, or I
(04:47):
pay companies or consultants orwhatever he goes, or I pay
through experience and he goes.
Now I have an employee whoknows how to handle this the
right way.
He goes.
In the end, that's going tomake me the next million dollars
and I can only imagine, sean,how your employees feel when
they're not only just safe toshare it.
(05:07):
But they have a leader thatbelieves in them enough to put
their arm around them and gogood for you, good for you.
Let's celebrate that fact.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
You have to live up to it too.
When somebody makes a failure,you have to stop.
Leadership has to be aligned.
I forget what the book was, butthey say that culture is kind
of what your direct team is your, your direct team.
So in larger companies,managers play such a key role in
culture because the companymight have a good culture, but
if your team doesn't, then thatemployee's perception is that
(05:37):
the company doesn't have a goodculture.
And when something does gowrong, it's taking a deep breath
and it's reminding yourselfthat this is a learning
experience and there's positivesof when you create that type of
culture.
I found If something goes wrong,I want to know about it quickly
.
I don't want somebody to be soscared that they're not going to
bring something up, especiallyin the finance world.
If something goes wrong, youneed to know about it and get on
(06:02):
top of it right away.
Now, once again, there's a lotof processes and we put a lot of
double checks in place, so it'svery difficult to have a
catastrophic failure right, butespecially when accounting firms
are, there's constant hackingattempts and there's all these
different things that can gowrong, having an environment
where somebody's like well,immediately bring it up to you
(06:23):
or really immediately bring itto light.
It just gives you the abilityto do something about it if and
when that scenario happens.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Well, yeah, and I think that there's this inherent
accountability that thatculture creates when you make it
safe for people to promotetheir failures.
Because, first of all, failureis the ultimate F word in
business for a lot of companies'cultures, meaning they don't
talk about it, they don't wantto look at it.
Their employees are constantlyjust trying to like up, manage
their, their direct reports byshowing them all the great
(06:52):
things that they've done withoutyou know, in hiding and putting
under rug every little thingthat's done.
But what the problem with thatis is that it promotes even good
people from to becomingunethical and they're out of
integrity and how they act,because integrity isn't good or
bad, it's just the balance ofthose things.
So if we're not providing thefailures and mistakes to our
direct reports, then we're nottelling them the whole story,
(07:12):
and I've learned in my owncompanies then you get a culture
, especially in remote companies, of people who start
snowballing and they startwatching Netflix and hiding it.
And there's a difference, Ithink, in failure between effort
and rebellion.
Like rebellion, failure iswhere they're just not trying,
they're trying to cheat thesystem.
Effort, effortful mistakes islike is, is like what we should
(07:36):
love and nurture and shownothing but kindness and mercy
on the way that you do.
But I think it's the intentionbehind it, sometimes Like yes,
have you ever had anyone likecome clean on, like other stuff,
like yeah, I checked in, but Ididn't do anything?
I don't know, that probablydoesn't show up in a team
meeting sense, but have you everhad employees do that?
Speaker 2 (07:54):
So I mean, it's a good question.
We do one-on-ones, we try tokeep teams in groups of six.
We try not to get over that andyou know when it just we find
that it's hard to manage morethan like five people at any one
point in time right.
We do one-on-ones each week andI think sometimes there's times
(08:15):
where you see something's goingwrong and because you're okay
with talking about failures, youknow you kind of wait for them
to bring it up, even though youprobably have a good idea that
something's going on.
There's been a few times whereyou know you can see something's
happening and you can call itout.
We try not to do it in anattacking way.
We don't want anybody to getdefensive.
So one of the biggest I thinkit was Brene Brown had a good
(08:38):
quote and one of my employeesbrought it up to me saying hey,
I think this is a better way forus to communicate with our team
when it's something emotionalor when we need to call
something out.
It's the story I'm tellingmyself is this, and so what you
do is you say what you'rethinking, but you throw the
story of what the story I'mtelling myself is, because this
is what's in my brain.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yeah, the story in my head is that you are busy and
yeah, yeah, yeah story in myhead is that you are busy and,
yeah, yeah, yeah, you startdescribing the subjective,
unproven facts in a way thathelps them feel like there's
some safe distance from it.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
And a lot of times you'll start to understand that,
yeah, there's somethinghappening, hey, I am getting a
little lazy, hey, I don't knowwhy, but I've been waking up a
little late or I've just beenreally overwhelmed, or I just
haven't been happy recently, andit you can kind of get past
that smoke screen and you canactually just have a real
conversation with the person,figure out what's going on and
see what you can do to help.
You know it.
(09:31):
Just let's say it comes down tointention.
You have to.
You know the goal is, if you'regoing to put somebody on a
performance plan, it's not toget them out of the company.
When you put them on aperformance plan, it's to help
them perform and make sureyou're giving them all the tools
that they need or support thatthey need to be a top performer.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Yeah, I love that and I love the way that you
described this.
One of my previous guests saidsomething that has stayed with
me.
It was the idea that we want togive our employees the benefit
of the doubt is one of thegreatest techniques we can ever
do.
Now, there's a differencebetween that and not being firm
on what's right and having thosehard conversations.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Avoiding confrontation.
Yeah Right.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Oh, they're probably just tired.
It's like, no, I'm going totalk to them about it and we're
going to talk about the outcomesobjectively, like, hey, this
isn't being met, we're notskirting around that issue.
But what we're saying is, hey,listen, I don't know what's
going on, but I trust you.
I sense from you something elsemight be going on, and I really
want to help you with that,because I had one employee once,
(10:32):
sean, that we were missingmoney from our cash pay bin at
the front of our desk, and everyweek we would just notice $10
was missing here and there, andwhoever it was didn't know that.
I was aware of it, and so westarted tracking it.
I was trying to catch theperson.
I did, I eventually caught theperson, and when I confronted
(10:52):
this individual to fire him, Iwas pretty just black and white
about it.
I wasn't a jerk.
I just said, hey, listen, thisis done, we're finished.
I saw you stealing from me.
I know you're stealing from me,we're finished.
And I said I won't call thecops if you just walk away right
now and I never hear from youagain.
And he came back to me threeyears later and he showed up at
(11:12):
the door.
He's like I was desperate.
I want you to know I'm sorry,I'll pay you back.
I was desperate.
He kind of went through it andI just thought, wow, even when
the most heinous acts are beingdone, there's a human element to
it.
Somewhere, rarely, I think, dopeople act out of pure malice?
So I know we've talked aboutthe extreme version of people
like failing because ofrebellion or like stealing, but
(11:36):
I just think it's nice tobalance that, because in your
team, people are able to do that.
So what's the result for you?
What have you heard from theteam that you've worked with
(11:57):
about that in terms of how theyfeel about talking about their
fears?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
I've gotten nothing but positive feedback on it.
I think initially it can be alittle difficult and, mind you,
our clients, we have the sameconversations.
So when we meet with ourclients once a month to talk
about finance, we also ask whatwere our successes last month,
what were our failures lastmonth?
It's meant to driveself-awareness right and you're
a little uncomfortable in thebeginning.
(12:20):
It's a muscle that you kind ofhave to utilize, right?
But once the team starts usingit, what I find intriguing and
when I know that it's startingto work is when I do a
one-on-one.
I ask what the failure was orwhat the success was, and their
response is you know it's funnyI was thinking about this last
night and what that means isthey're going through their week
(12:42):
, they're trying to figure outintentionally yeah.
It's that proactive mindsetRight, and so I.
I, when I hear stuff like that,I know what's working right.
When they know what their focuswas from last week and they
they tie it into the one-on-onelike they're, they're being
intentional, so it's.
I've I've seen it work reallywell.
I've even had instances wherewe've brought people on
(13:04):
part-time and it was probablythe biggest compliment I've ever
received.
We had somebody that came onpart-time, called me up one day
and was like I want to come onfull-time.
I know it's not something wediscussed yet, but the culture
on your team there's just such,it's so different.
It's so just like refreshing.
I want to be a part of thisteam and like that's that's what
(13:31):
I want to, that's what I like,that's the the end result right,
you want to have a good placethat you're working at.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
I mean, yeah, you want to be happy and you spend
most of your life in this placecalled work Cause you have to
eat, yeah, so, like, whywouldn't you want to work
somewhere that you're you're,you love and you're happy?
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Yeah, let me remind you, it's a bookkeeping and
accounting company.
It's not the most fun, it's notthe most sexy Not Disneyland,
yeah.
But when you can show up towork, you enjoy the people you
work with.
Yeah, even if selfishly, you'regoing to do a better job,
(14:02):
you're going to care, and that'snot something that you can just
throw money at people and saycare, you have to put the right
structure in place.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
You have to put the right culture in place.
Well, you know, I I saidDisneyland kind of, you know,
tongue in cheek because you weretalking about hey, we're an
accounting firm and physicaltherapists you know, we're in
there from a physical therapyowner perspective I could.
I think the people listening tothis are like, yeah, how could
that be cool?
But what I've learned is whatyou already know, which is that
you can have that culturalexperience in any business where
you're making a difference.
Cause who doesn't needaccounting?
(14:34):
Who doesn't man dude theheadaches I was telling you
about before this call, I wentthrough four different companies
and I just none of them werespecialized in PT.
It was this constant like likedo I really have to deal with
this crap?
Like, why do I have to dealwith money?
But what it's interesting islike that culture makes a
difference.
And so you I think that maybeyou guys are the Disneyland of
accounting companies because youhave a culture where people
(14:55):
feel safe and have fun Puttingthat on the website.
That's a Disneyland ofaccounting firms.
My medical billing company thatI was running for all those
years I used to laugh at how funit was, because when I, you
know, when I tell people I'm aphysical therapist, they're like
I still kind of do, honestlyCause people are like, oh wow,
look at you.
But when I say I am an owner ofa medical billing company or
(15:17):
now it's a virtual assistantcompany, people go okay,
whatever who cares, especiallyPTs who are like that's so
boring.
But dude, my billers back inthe day they were just like the
they would.
They would high five, like wegot more money from Aetna.
Heck yeah, stick it to the manHigh five.
It was super fun and I justthere's passion in anywhere that
there's product right and whatyou guys produce is so valuable,
(15:39):
you produce more.
I mean, it's always like thewhat and the why, but I remember
what I've heard from my common.
Oh, by the way, this is true,this isn't just for the episode
today.
One of our common clients wason a call on Wednesday of this
week and she was talking abouthow she said this was the first
year ever that she started theyear without feeling doom and
(16:00):
gloom.
She goes I know where mynumbers are, I know what I have.
That's why it's fun, becauseit's not about the numbers, it's
about this therapist ownerwho's amazing, by the way, super
talented, taking fear and painaway from her and encouraging
her to go out there and grow herpractice and change people's
lives.
Dude, how cool is that?
Speaker 2 (16:20):
It's great.
I mean some of the feedback weget from clients.
Some of the feedback we getfrom clients.
I don't even understand how weget some of the compliments we
get and I'm not saying we'reperfect in any way, shape or
form.
But I'll hear from some of ourclients being like I can't tell
(16:42):
you how much I appreciate yourteam.
Or when it's compliments on myteam, I take that to just like
it's the ultimate compliment.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Because that's who you're focused on is developing
your leadership team?
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Yeah, I'm also very fortunate to.
I look, we can talk about theculture, but you really need
good people.
You need people that are boughtin and care and you need
legitimate people to like thatcan really take the company to
the next level.
And they, they have the hardjob.
I work for them, like I, theyare the they're, they're
fantastic.
(17:09):
I'm extremely lucky for everysingle individual on our team
and, um, they, they're thereason that it all happens.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
So I got to say.
My favorite thing about hostingthe show for me is that I feel
like this is like a hundredpercent about me learning.
My audience, of course, gets tocome along for the journey that
I get to go on personally everytime, because I I get to
experience people like you and Iget to get it from different
angles.
So the thing I'm going to shareis that I was filming another
(17:37):
episode with a PT owner who had20 locations that he built in
six years seven years, and theway you two are similar, it's
like.
So he said the same thing thatyou said.
It's like his focus.
He didn't say it in the wordsthat you did about working for
the team, but he said was likewhen I mentally shifted from I'm
not about my patients, but I'mabout my leaders and I'm about
(17:57):
making sure that they get thebest experience possible, that I
can help them grow and, yes, Ipay them well.
But he said the same thing,almost word for word, about you
can't pay people to care.
It's like what you can't butyou pay, but you still have to
pay, like that's.
The problem is, is that likethere's a, that's a component,
but it's more than that.
It's like an experience.
It's about growth and all thethings that you just talked
(18:18):
about.
So it's fun for me because Iget the different learning of it
.
It's like, okay, so how am Idoing that?
And rock stars, how are youdoing that with your leaders,
whether you have one location oryou have 80 locations, like,
what are you doing to help pourinto your leaders?
And so that's a great, and Ithink everyone has a different
answer.
What so?
The big thing that youmentioned at beginning is this
(18:38):
idea of taking the F word out offear.
Obviously, that's one way thatyou grow your leaders is by
helping them learn to grow inthe organic way.
What are other things that youdo to show your leaders that you
care or build them, to growthem?
All the things that you thinkabout, what do you do, sean?
Speaker 2 (18:55):
I'd say.
One of the other things that Itry to do is I am always asking
them what I can do better.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
You model, you model feedback.
Yeah, I want to know if there'ssomething in our company that
needs to change or needs toimprove.
And if you're not going tochange yourself, how can you
expect everybody else to?
So I try to get as muchfeedback as possible, now, mind
(19:23):
you, it doesn't mean that we'regoing to change every time we
get a piece of feedback right.
There's key things.
You have to know when to say no.
You have to make sure thatcertain things align, certain
things don't.
But I think a key piece of itis you have to accept the
feedback, but you also have totrust them to make decisions.
I mean, I'm sure you're awareof this, and anybody that runs a
(19:54):
company knows how hard it is todelegate and knows how hard it
is to trust other people withmaybe taking the wheel and maybe
going in the wrong direction.
The amount of times that I'velet my team make a decision and
I just backed them, you know,hey, let's see how it goes.
All right, like I might notagree, but I think this is a
good opportunity for us to learn.
You know, and a lot of timeswhat will happen is, all of a
sudden things get that muchbetter, you know, and just
trying to make sure that youhave a good understanding and a
good gauge for what they need tobe successful.
(20:16):
Like perfect example, we'vedone a culture index.
I don't know if you ever heardof culture index.
Love it.
Okay, I thrive in chaoticenvironments.
Every single person on my teamworks better in structured
environments.
I am not good at buildingstructure, so I mind you.
(20:37):
Now we, we we have a lot ofstructure.
It's something I had to put alot of time and energy into
getting better at, but I didn'tdo it all alone.
But I didn't do it all alone, itwas the team, it was constant
feedback.
It was how do we improve this,even when someone was working?
Could it work better?
It's sometimes putting some ofthose pieces in place standard
operating procedures, a projectmanagement system, simple things
(21:00):
.
Who would have guessed?
I don't know how we ran ourcompany pre some of those items.
We, when we do our likeone-on-ones, we laugh about it
sometimes, like, do you rememberthe day when we didn't have
mondaycom?
Like it's?
You know those things go a verylong way.
You got to ask the question,you got to be open to it and you
need to prioritize what's thebiggest thing that I can impact
(21:23):
in my company Cause, as a leader, your job is to target the
biggest thing that's going todrive the most change and that
has to be your focus.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
You have to do all the other jobs too but it has to
be your focus.
Yeah, I can hear my rock starsasking about some of these
softwares and things likemoneycom.
I know what that is.
So when you talk about SOPs orstandard operating procedures or
playbooks, as sometimes they'recalled, or when you think about
different structural piecesthat have been vital to you,
(21:51):
have you seen?
You may not know, but, like forPT practices specifically, have
you seen anything that you haveseen work well in your PT
practices to help them createthat same structure?
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Oh, absolutely.
Cadence of communication withyour team Number one.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
What do you recommend ?
Like, what do you think?
Speaker 2 (22:10):
I think that everybody should have at least a
one-on-one every single week.
Even if it's a 15 minuteone-on-one, it should be a quick
check-in.
Same structured meeting everysingle week.
Nothing gets, nothing getsscheduled over one-on-ones.
So a manager meets with theirteam, you meet with your
leadership team.
If you don't have a weeklycadence, you're you're.
You're playing the game at adisadvantage.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
How do you?
What's the?
What's the structure of thatone-on-one, that 15 minute
one-on-one?
Speaker 2 (22:36):
So we use something similar to an action review.
So the action action review isvery similar to our action
review.
Is what, like the army, theNavy use?
It's what usually highperforming teams use.
What went well or what was thefocus?
What went well?
What didn't go well?
What's the focus for the nextweek?
Or we do it as, as I mentionedearlier what was your focus?
What were our successes thisweek?
Where were our failures?
What's our focus this comingweek?
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Oh man.
So it's very like resultsdriven.
It's very much like you knowcause we could talk.
So how are you doing?
Oh man, I just woke up kind ofin it's like versus, like what
went well, what didn't?
Where was your focus?
What went well, what didn't,and what are you focusing on now
?
I love that because it gets tothat point.
I don't think it needs to takea lot of time.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
No, we do 30 minutes.
Where I do 30 minutes with myleadership team each week, my
managers do it with the accountmanagers each week and each week
and, as I said, sometimes it isjust like a this was just a bad
week, I had a bad week and it'slike okay, you know, that's
okay, right, what can we do tomake sure we're set up for a
good week next week?
You know, you can, you can kindof take that step back and try
(23:35):
to move some of the emotion outof it and just what's in our
realm of control, right?
Like some of those simplethings that you read in all the
hundred thousand business booksor leadership books.
It's just asking thosequestions sometimes and just
putting it into a very good,structured format.
It just keeps you on the samepage with your team and when you
fall off, it's like a highway,right.
(23:55):
When you get off the highway,how quickly can you get back on,
right?
Speaker 1 (24:00):
I like that because you started with meeting rhythms
for structure.
When people leave a companythey don't like what's the
number one cliche thing thateveryone says oh they, they were
, they were, communication washorrible, like so.
So the what's the one way tochange it?
Communication, and I would, Iwould argue, rock struck stars.
As you're listening to this, ifyou're struggling somewhere in
your business, maybe there's a,there's probably not, maybe
(24:22):
there's a probable out out pointin your company around
communication, and I love thatthing that Sean just highlighted
this, this uh, one-on-onestructure that allows you to
connect, uh, what else would yourecommend, sean?
You're on a.
You're on a roll bud.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
No, I just some standard operating procedures.
You know if, something assimple as before somebody walks
out of your office, you know,are we scheduling all the
meetings for the rest of theirplan of care, right?
Is there something tracking howmany people are walking out the
door without scheduling all 14,16, 18?
(24:56):
Are they just scheduling thenext two and then leaving?
Those little things go a very,very long way.
If you want your billing teamto do something, do you have
those processes written out?
You know, because if all of asudden they're coming, if your
employees are coming to youasking question after question
after question and you're givingthe same answer after answer
after answer, you are wastingtime.
(25:17):
It can be something as simpleas did you look for the standard
operating procedure, yet Didyou look for the SOP?
Oh, there isn't one.
All right, we're going to talkabout it, but you're going to go
and write this SOP next and thenext time somebody comes it's
not going to give you the answer.
Did you go check the SOPs, right?
And little by little it's amountain, but little by little
(25:38):
you start having thisinformation that your team can
access.
It doesn't all have to be inyour head, right, and it also
doesn't always have to be yourway.
They're meant like by thembeing in charge of the SOPs they
might bring improvements thatyou never thought of.
It doesn't have to be your ideato be a good idea, you know.
So it's just.
It's just that it's gettinginto that consistent cadence.
(25:59):
It just it makes a world ofdifference over the course of
time.
It's going to be annoying for aweek or two, for a couple
months, but little by little, bylittle, you know, people become
more self-sufficient.
The information's already there, you know, it's just.
You start to see someincremental improvement that way
.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
I like the way you described development and living
of SOPs as a habit development.
I like that you describe itthat way.
It's almost like that'd be agreat book title, right, the
Habit of SOPs.
Because people think of it assomething that they have or they
don't.
They don't realize they'reliving documents that are meant
to be collaborated and createdby the people who are running
(26:39):
them.
And the way you describe thatdevelopment of that frustration
from personal validation of whatyou just said.
When we did our physical therapy, when we grew our physical
therapy practice, when westarted getting multiple
locations, that's when westarted SOPs Interesting.
We called them playbooks, likethe PT playbook, the front and
vest playbook.
Yeah, and they were just SOPs.
(27:01):
And it was so funny becauseeventually, when we sold, one of
the big things that shocked mewas that the SOPs were part of
what they were buying.
It was like that, yes, theywere buying the revenue, but
it's the systems that they careabout next to the revenue,
because the people are variableand, yes, they do care about
people, but they were third inthe mix.
So when I started one of mycompanies after selling, it was
(27:24):
weird.
I remember we were starting andit was like, okay, let's write
this down.
Where are we putting our GoogleDoc?
Because in the early days wedidn't have softwares like
Trainual, if you've heard ofthose guys.
So the software you can useright now for and I'm plugging
train you all for those of youwho are like where could I go to
help do this train you allteaches you how to create sops
and it creates a centralizedplatform that even tracks people
(27:44):
in their training.
So when you have sops, you cansee if they're answering the
quizzes right and if they'vedone the training.
But in the beginning it wasjust a google doc and it's just
like, like you start writingokay, I figured out a problem,
write it down, and it's.
It's such an annoying step.
Every time, Sean, for me I'mlike, oh, I have to write this
down, but like when you get inthe habit of it, you stop
thinking about it Cause, likeyou said, then you start scaling
(28:05):
and then it's just they're,they're all doing it with you
and that document gets created.
So I love that you created youhabit of SOP creation as a
stability factor in yourleadership team.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Now let me be clear about something I did not write
all the SOPs.
No, your team didn't write you.
And I don't recommendespecially owners.
I think they say if you are avisionary type doing some of
that type of administrative work, you're not going to do a good
job at all.
And also there's a conceptcalled the curse of knowledge.
When you know so much about acertain topic, most people don't
(28:37):
even know the foundation thatall your knowledge is built on,
right?
So what happens is when youwrite an SOP, as somebody that's
been so in the weeds and knowsit, you skip like half the steps
.
And if somebody goes to try torepeat it, they're like this is
not in English, right, simpleisn't simple, right.
So having somebody that,especially if you're newer, if
(29:01):
we have our people and you'renewer go into a new client, read
the SOPs.
If they don't make sense, goput them into English, right, go
go figure out those missingsteps.
And it's once again.
It's.
It's not something you writeand you're done.
It is a constant evolution, itwill continue to change and, to
your point, it has to be a habitand it has to be something that
you know, even your managers,your leadership.
Somebody's going askingquestions?
Is there an SOP, like you knowyou have?
(29:22):
You have to be consistent aboutit to really get traction over
the course of time.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Great share.
Thank you so much for sharingthat.
Okay, so kind of reviewing.
We were talking about structurethat you were able to create
that supports your team, whichis part of that structure is an
element to the bigger discussionwe had about creating a culture
in your company for yourleaders that they love.
And so you have this meetingrhythm, which are personal,
humanizing check-ins.
You have the second that areresults driven.
(29:48):
You have the second componentof systems operations and other
things.
It may not be structure related, but if there is, I'd love to
hear about it.
But what else do you do foryour leadership team to help you
develop that culture where theyfeel super safe in failure?
Speaker 2 (30:03):
So the only other two things that I can think of we
always allow them to block.
We pick an hour each week thatthey can plan for the next week.
So Thursday end of the day,let's take a look at next week.
Let's communicate what meetingsare coming up, what do we need
to get done for there.
Let's start doing time blockingon our calendars.
Now, in accounting, we can allwork remotely.
It's a little different than PT, but let's take a PT example.
(30:26):
If every Thursday, your doctorstook a look or your clinic
directors took a look, whatvisits you know, how many visits
do we have next week?
What days are we missing?
Do we have gaps in the schedule?
Do we have specific people thatthere are gaps in the schedule?
You can do something about thatall day, friday.
Or you can plan hey, you knowwe want you to go do some
(30:48):
marketing.
Go do it at this time becauseyou don't have patience, right?
You can look proactively at thenext week and make little
decisions, right?
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
The other thing is just giving people permission to
say no.
I think it can be very easy,for, at least with my team, my
team always wants to try to help, so if somebody asks for help,
they'll volunteer, even thoughthey might have 10 other
priorities that day.
And the one thing we really tryto continuously like it's
constantly giving thempermission to you own your
(31:22):
calendar, those, the clientsthat you serve, like you own
those accounts.
If there's something that'smore important, don't put
something urgent beforesomething important.
Right, like I'd rather youdelegate.
You have permission to delegate.
You have permission to say no.
I tell you to do something.
I'm like I need this done.
You can turn to me and say Idon't have the time for that.
(31:42):
You know you have to give thempermission to be able to just be
authentic, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Absolutely, and you have to make that safe, because
my best leaders were able totell me no without saying no,
like I'd say.
You know, I'd never trainedthem to do that the way you're
doing.
So, like my best, I remember mybest leaders would be like okay
, so you want me to do this bythis time?
So here's what else I havegoing on.
What would you say is a biggerprice?
Like they would put it back onme in a way that it was like oh
(32:09):
well, the other thing, okay,great, so what needs to shift?
I'll go?
Oh, I'm not going to give thatto you.
And I remember, after the fourthor fifth time going oh, they're
telling me no in the mostrespectful, kind way, but not
everyone has that skill.
So, being able to and, ofcourse, to counterbalance it,
you're not saying people have aright to go.
No, I don't feel like doingthat.
It's a matter of helping.
(32:30):
Yeah, all of these things arepredicated upon the foundation,
like you said earlier, of havingthe right people.
When you don't have the rightpeople, all these things don't
work, and it doesn't matter howhard we try to put these systems
in place.
In my experience it's like ifwe have C players in our team.
(32:50):
It's only a matter of timebefore anything positive we try
to put in crumbles becausethey're actively destroying it
or unintentionally destroying it.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Yeah, when you have players like that, unfortunately
, you have to part ways.
If they're not a culture fit,you have to part ways.
Some of the clients that Ithink are most successful will
brag about how, hey, we actuallylet PTs go this month.
That's our success because theywere not a culture fit.
You know, when a lot of PTs outthere are, you know we're
(33:19):
having trouble finding people.
The clients I see are mostsuccessful the ones like oh no,
no, they, they didn't meet our,they didn't fit our culture.
You know they might've been agood performer but they didn't
fit our culture.
So you know, we decided in thelong run it would be best to be
part ways, like, yeah, that's asign of like, you're going to do
big things.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Because that's the hardest thing to do, and right
is to like, hey, especially inthe service based industry,
where if that therapist fire, ifthe owner fires a therapist,
their world gets worse in termsof time not in terms of quality,
though, because getting rid ofthe other person is much better
for quality, but there's adefinite increase in like who's
going to take those patients andall that.
And I love that you say that,because I think one of the most
(34:01):
courageous things that we couldever do is is take a stand for
what our values really are aboutby firing people who aren't a
fit.
So so I think a lot of peoplelisten to episodes like this,
looking for that trick.
Okay, I, my leadership isn'ttotally dialed in.
Okay, so Sean's talking aboutstability.
Let's learn more about like.
Oh yeah, the SOP thing and likeall these things, but like, at
the end of the day, those arethe structures, those are the
(34:23):
pillars, built upon thatfoundation of people that you
mentioned at the beginning.
Yeah, and no one ever isperfect at this, but your team,
I can feel it, has this likecore culture of like.
They probably even helpedeliminate those people, because
of your company culture.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
Like if someone joined who wasn't a fit, your
whole team would probably catchit pretty quick and even you
stick out like you stick outlike a sore thumb.
Yeah, I mean, which is great,which is exactly what you want.
But it's on them to look as asour company continues to grow.
It's on them to make sure that,like, the culture stays the
same.
It's on them that when somebodydoes has a failure, that they
don't get.
You know, when they getpromoted to be a manager, you
don't slap somebody on the wrist.
When there is failure, you'renot.
(35:02):
You know you have to live by itas well.
And if I ever hit a point thatI stopped doing it, it is your
job to tell me that I am doingsomething wrong and wrong and
that is not in line with theculture, and I need to look in
the mirror and make a change.
You know you need to have that.
Just that you constantly talkabout Otherwise it.
You know, when you grow, it isculture is one of the first
(35:23):
things that tends to gounfortunately, Unfortunately.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Yeah, and if anyone's like well, how do I know if my
culture is not in fit?
Well, you know, I always tellpeople like hey, if you don't
like getting to work, no oneelse is going to work.
Happy either.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
I heard a great line Culture is the feeling in your
employee's stomach on Sundaynight.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Oh my gosh, that's the best quote on culture I've
ever heard.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
I heard it and I was like I will never forget this
one-liner.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
I got chills, man, because I was just with my son
on Sunday night.
They were going back to schoolright after Christmas break and
they were having their Sundaynight blues and I was relating
to him.
I was just kind of like, man,you know what, it doesn't go
away Sometimes.
I used to have my own company.
I remember, as an owner, youknow dreading Monday because it
was like I had a culture thatsucked.
And as as employers, we'restill employees of our company,
(36:12):
unless we're passive investors.
So we kind of get our.
We have our cultural index ofour own in our stomachs, don't
we Like those Sunday nights?
Speaker 2 (36:19):
You're definitely a prisoner of your own company at
times, but you know it's aprison of your own making.
So it's yeah, it, I, we've allhad that job, that we've had
that like pit and it's you know,and sometimes it's just asking
the team like, do you get theSunday scaries?
And and sometimes it's justasking the team like, do you get
(36:42):
the Sunday scaries?
And if you see their look likeno, and you're just like uh-oh,
all right, I need to dosomething about this, because if
that's what's happening, weneed to get to the bottom, we
need to get to understand whyand make sure that that changes
quickly, because nobody wantsthat.
You don't want people that arejust upset coming to work.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
It's just yeah, man.
Sean, this has been such agreat episode.
I can't believe how much we'vecovered in such a short amount
of time.
I want to thank you for sharingyour insights and wisdom from
building that team.
I don't think when you've neverbuilt a great experience as a
business owner, it feels likeit's impossible or anyone else
can do it.
So when I hear someone like yougo through that and again, my
(37:17):
greatest blessing is hearingmultiple touch points from
people from time to time it'sinspiring.
It's like you know, I think Iwant rock stars, as you're
listening to this, just torecognize that either A you have
this and you're going amen,brother, and you picked up some
extra kernels that you didn'thave before.
Or maybe you're a PT who'sstarting out and you don't know
where you're going, what you'rebuilding towards.
Well, this is a target for youto hit.
Or maybe you're in the middleof it with multiple teams, just
(37:39):
thinking like man, I have theSunday night scaries.
Whatever it is, it's allpossible to get to that place
where people are super happy andthey get to love, where they
work.
So, sean, if people wanted theDisneyland experience of
accounting, how could they getahold of you?
Speaker 2 (37:52):
they get ahold of you , uh, so you could always go to
our, our website, uh,wwwaccounted4,.
Uh, a-c-c-o-u-n-t-e-d, thenumber four, llccom, uh, or um,
probably just find my email,which, uh, I can, I can send
over to you.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Well, I'll put that in my show notes as well as that
website.
But, guys, rock stars, asyou're listening, you know I
never get anything out of thispersonally in terms of
financials.
I only bring services andproducts and people that inspire
me that I know are good for theindustry.
Everyone that we bring on isabout helping you discover
what's right, and not everyperson is meant for every person
, right.
Not every service is meant forevery client and so on, but I
(38:33):
only bring on people that Ieither do work with or want to
work with or would have workedwith if I had if I still had my
practice.
So, sean, it's been an absolutepleasure to have you on the
show and, yeah, thanks again forall those wonderful insights.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
No, thank you.
This has been a lot of fun.
I appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Thank you so much for taking the time to listen to
today's episode.
As a thank you, I have a gift.
In today's show notes there's alink for you to join the
Stress-Free PT newsletter.
This is a comedy newsletter foranyone who works in healthcare
and of course we're gonna havecomedy bits.
We're gonna have inspirationalstories, leadership tidbits.
It's gonna be a weeklynewsletter just to lighten your
(39:12):
week, to help you do what youlove with more passion.
So click that link below andjoin that newsletter and we'll
see you in our next episode.
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