December 2, 2025 • 60 mins
In this electrifying episode of the Will Power Podcast, we break down a historic legislative victory in Utah that designated Physical Therapists as primary care providers for all musculoskeletal (MSK) disorders—the first state in the nation to do so!
Our guest, Brad Powell, Physical Therapist, entrepreneur, and host of "The Healthcare Revolution" podcast, was a key changemaker in this movement. He shares his incredible journey—from recovering from severe motocross injuries to leading the charge to elevate the physical therapy profession.
Brad reveals the detailed strategies used to achieve this legislative success, overcome internal professional resistance, and build a thriving, mission-driven private practice, Foundation Physical Therapy.
This is more than just a legislative update, it's a call to action for all physical therapists, occupational therapists (OT), and speech-language pathologists (SLP) to claim their rightful roles as doctors in the community and musculoskeletal leaders. Learn how embracing your value can create a profitable practice and change patients' lives on a greater scale.
Key Takeaways from This Episode
- The Utah Law: Learn the details of the groundbreaking bill that designates PTs as the initial point of entry for MSK disorders, effectively establishing them as primary care providers in this domain.
- Reclaiming PT's Role: Why physical therapists are uniquely positioned to lead the musculoskeletal industry and how this change benefits patients by avoiding unnecessary delays and costs.
- Overcoming Resistance: Brad discusses the challenge of getting buy-in, noting that the most resistance often came from within the physical therapy profession itself.
- Diagnostic Accuracy: Brad cites research showing PTs are highly accurate in diagnosing MSK conditions, nearly matching orthopedic surgeons, making a compelling case for Direct Access and primary care status.
- The Future is Prevention (Medicine 3.0): The shift towards focusing on prevention and longevity, where PTs play a critical role in proactive health management.
- Building a World-Class Practice: Strategies for scaling a practice, including creating internal growth pathways (Master Clinician, Clinic Director), unlimited C/E budgeting, and an employee NPS of 9.2.
- The Power of Serving: How focusing on genuinely serving people and creating an "attractive" company culture is the ultimate recruiting and marketing strategy.
If you are a PT, OT, or SLP passionate about the future of your profession, share this episode on your social media and with your colleagues! Brad and the host issue a plea to amplify this message and help drive the national revolution in healthcare.
Virtual Rockstars specialize in helping support or replace all non-clinical roles.
Learn how a Virtual Rockstar can help scale your physical therapy practice.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Did you know that in Utah, physical therapists are
now primary care providers?
The law changed in one of themost groundbreaking bills that
have been passed that allowphysical therapists to be the
initial point of entry for allmusculoskeletal disorders.
Our guest is Brad Powell.
He's not only a physicaltherapist and an entrepreneur,
(00:21):
he is a change maker on thegovernmental level to help our
profession take a stand in whatwe were born to be, which is
doctors in the community.
We were born to lead themusculoskeletal industry.
And in this episode, we'rebreaking down how he did it, how
you can do it, and how you canreclaim the life that you
deserve, not because you deserveit, but because your patients
(00:45):
need the version of you that'sprofitable and able to change
their lives on a greater scale.
I can't say enough about thisshow other than one big plea.
This episode, more than anyepisode, please send to your
friends.
Please post this on socialmedia.
Please be loud after you listento this.
If you are in any way passionateabout PT, OT, or SLP, this is
(01:07):
the episode I want you topromote.
Enjoy the show.
Brad, I'm so excited to have youon the show.
Thanks for coming.
SPEAKER_00 (01:16):
I'm excited to be here.
Thanks, Will.
Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_01 (01:19):
So set the table for us.
Talk a little bit about who youare and why you love doing what
you do.
SPEAKER_00 (01:24):
My name's Brad Powell.
I'm the owner of FoundationPhysical Therapy.
I raced motocross professionallyas a young teenager.
unknown (01:33):
Really?
SPEAKER_00 (01:34):
Some pretty crazy injuries, broke over 34 bones,
very similar to you.
Oh, that's right.
I didn't have a falling offcliff experience like you and
shattering, you know, my pelvisor back or legs, but uh
definitely had a lot of injuriesthrough the years.
Almost lost my leg tocompartment syndrome.
Um had to learn how to walkagain at 17 years old, and then
(01:57):
decided this sounded like areally cool career.
So that's been literally thefoundation for my life.
That's why I called itfoundation physical therapy,
because it gave me my life back,and I didn't think I'd ever walk
again.
I couldn't move my leg at all,and to now I have no issues at
all with my body, you know, withall my broken bones.
(02:17):
I've done CrossFit competitions,rode my bike around Utah Lake,
which was about 100 miles, andum just done a lot of you know
athletic competitions in thelast few years, and I just love
our profession as physicaltherapists because we literally
can create so much value withjust education, and we can
literally create freedom for somany people.
(02:39):
Our purpose statement in mycompany is to help people live
the life they always wanted.
And um it's just been such anincredible career to help people
truly see what they're capableof and you know, take them with
pain and disability and showthem they don't have to stay
there and do it na in naturalways.
(02:59):
We don't even need medicine ormedication or injections, we can
do it in other ways, and I'm notsaying to diminish those at all
because they have value andthey're very important, but it's
just so fun to use our knowledgeto just take people to the next
level with exercise and painmodulation techniques that we
use.
Um, I run a podcast called theHealthcare Revolution.
SPEAKER_01 (03:21):
So it's highly recommend it.
I love it because I think you'retackling something in that show
that is what everyone's cravingright now, which is information
on how we can make a difference.
SPEAKER_00 (03:31):
Yeah, and it the healthcare revolution just
started from you know, as Istarted to jump into practice, I
realized that there was thishuge gap in patients
understanding how to navigatethe complex medical system that
we're in, and also the providersgiving them the information that
they need.
It was like there was thisbridge that wasn't gapped.
(03:53):
Like it was just like there's ahuge separation between
providers and patients.
So the healthcare revolution isall about bringing us all
together as one and workingcollectively as a team, the
patient communicating ways inwhich helps the provider, and
the provider helping in wayswhich helps the patient, and
then also giving them tips ofhow to navigate this complex
(04:16):
system, how to you know workwith their insurance companies
to get the very best and to makesure they get they advocate for
themselves and they don't getyou know nailed with denials and
and things like that.
So we we spend some time talkingabout the insurance game and how
to navigate that.
And then we love bringing newproviders on.
(04:36):
We bring surgeons, doctors, NPs,PAs.
We talk about these complexissues and how we can solve them
and give people helpful tips ofhow they can create the best for
their life and live the lifethey wanted.
So love doing the podcast, lovetalking about you know complex
issues, and I love rocking theboat too.
You know, like there's so manyissues in our in our healthcare
(04:58):
system that have been created,and I want to break through
those barriers.
I believe we're in a healthcarerevolution right now where you
know things are changing for thebetter.
I just had a podcast thismorning on medicine 3.0.
And medicine 3.0 is focusing onprevention.
Like, why are we focusing on youknow creating longevity for
(05:20):
people if the quality of lifeisn't good as well?
Let's focus on quality of lifeand longevity of life.
So that's what medicine 3.0 isall about is what are we doing
in people's 20s to preventosteoporosis and and spine
disease and all these otherthings.
It's just it's it's just so funto get everyone together and
(05:42):
have these conversations.
SPEAKER_01 (05:43):
Yeah, it's I mean it's interesting to know how
like you go back twogenerations, even one
generation, and they don'trunning like just going to a gym
was like, why would you do that?
Right, and now it's commonplacein our culture, and so it's
shifting.
I'm grateful to see that it willgo towards prevention as we
learn about you know, PeterAtia, who talks about VO2 Max,
(06:04):
how it's the greatest measure ofwhat's it is, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:06):
That's they actually coined this term, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (06:09):
Yeah, and and for I love that you're in that space
because for this generation'ssmart, like they're in their
20s, they're oh, they'reactually open to it, so they
need people like you who areyounger than me that they'll
listen to but old enough towhere they can still like feel
like they have some mentoring inthere.
SPEAKER_00 (06:24):
Oh, you're a pretty young buck still.
SPEAKER_01 (06:26):
Yeah, it's it's not the years, Brad, it's the
mileage.
But truly, like I'm so excitedthat three that healthcare
revolution podcast exists andit's very popular.
I mean, just as a side note, notonly was it really good, but I
listened and I was doingresearch.
It's a very successful show.
I think people are craving thatkind of information, both in
(06:47):
terms of how to navigatehealthcare.
So it sounds like the show isabout the is for the audience of
patients and the providers, kindof a connecting that that link.
SPEAKER_00 (06:55):
It really is, yeah.
Because, you know, providersneed to understand this as well,
you know, the gaps in care.
And patients come onto thepodcast as well and tell their
story.
It's helpful for providers tosee through a different lens to
see how what they're saying canhave a negative impact.
Because sometimes we don't thinkabout what we're saying to a
(07:18):
patient, and we don't realizehow many issues that can create
in their life.
You know, just by saying onething in a just a nonchalant way
can really negatively impact apatient for decades and even
generations.
So we've had a lot of reallyinteresting podcasts on that,
and is how you know I have oneexample uh a provider here in
(07:40):
Utah told a young mom uh shedidn't want to get a certain
vaccination within their clinic,and the pediatrician kicked her
out of the clinic and actuallysaid, You have to go find a new
provider.
If you're not gonna followexactly what we're doing here in
our practice, we will not seeyou.
Oh, now this this mom, she she'snever gonna go to the doctor
(08:03):
again.
She's like, I don't trustdoctors, like I'm never gonna do
that.
And then how does thatperpetuate the next generation?
Yeah, you know, how are kidsgonna perceive doctors because
this young mom was treated inthat manner?
You know, but scary.
Yeah, it's wild for sure.
And then I get I guess the lastpiece we've been working on
quite a bit.
(08:23):
I'm on the APTA board ofdirectors here in Utah.
SPEAKER_01 (08:26):
Oh, yeah, let's dig in on this.
This is a big deal.
So let me set the stage beforeyou continue.
Sorry to interrupt.
No, I I want the audience tohear this because all the
healthcare listener providerswho are listening are all just
you know feeling a little ateffect from the way that things
have gone.
But you guys just did somethingmassive.
It's getting recognized at theprivate practice section of the
APTA here in a couple weeks.
(08:48):
Yeah, let's talk about how youguys have led the way in Utah,
and you're a part of that APTAgroup, yes?
SPEAKER_00 (08:54):
Yes, yeah.
So I'm over, I'm specificallyover practic payment and
practice.
So I got recruited, they tuggedmy my uh heartstrings at getting
paid better.
And you know, I've always been ahuge advocate.
Like we have a doctoral degree,and we provide so much freaking
value for what we do to theworld.
Why are we getting paid 70k ayear?
(09:16):
You know, that is just it blowsme away that that's how much
physical therapists make.
So this has been a huge push forme.
So, you know, a bunch of peopleon the board just kind of uh
tugged me a little bit and said,Hey, we need someone that has
your passion to be in thisspecific spot.
So, yes, I'm over payment andpractice, so representing
(09:39):
private practice here in Utahand increasing our ability to
get paid well.
Um, but yes, we passed this billto become primary care providers
in Utah.
So we're the first in the nationto make this happen.
It is is groundbreakinglegislative support.
We had a hundred percentunanimous support from both the
Senate and the House.
(10:00):
It literally didn't rock theboat at all.
SPEAKER_01 (10:03):
Like everyone's like, this is a no-brainer.
SPEAKER_00 (10:05):
Yes, they literally said, uh, why haven't you done
this years ago?
And these like I don't know whythat's so funny.
SPEAKER_01 (10:15):
I just like the the legislation people are like,
yeah, what took you guys solong?
SPEAKER_00 (10:19):
Yeah, like chiropractors have done this,
you know, 20 years ago.
Why are you why are you guysjust doing this, right?
But ultimately, what it wasabout is getting paid better.
You know, like how do you getpaid better?
You could go after insurancecompanies and say, yes, we need
to get paid better, here's theresearch, and they're like,
Yeah, yeah, we don't reallycare, right?
(10:40):
But how do you show it?
We we wanted to show it by beingby having a title.
If we are we were already directto access in Utah, which means
people could come directly withto us.
We've been that for you know 20years or so, but no one knows
that in Utah.
They're like, Well, I need areferral to come to you.
(11:00):
The majority of people thinkthat, right?
But this has been 20 years agowe've been able to do this, but
now that we're primary care,we're pushing out marketing
strategies to across the stateof Utah to teach people you
don't need to go see a physicianfirst.
You know, you need you can godirectly to a physical therapist
for anything, pain or injury,and they can take care of your
(11:21):
needs there.
And as you as the entry point tocare, it's beautiful because
around 75% of people get betterwith PT.
So we can take care of the bigmajority, and then we are better
stewards at referring out, wherewe are telling the patients, the
next step is this, and we'regonna refer you to this clinic
(11:44):
if you're not improving in ourclinic, right?
But that's how the system shouldwork.
We have it so backwards wherepeople are just they they want
the specialist.
They're like, I want to go tothe orthopedic surgeon
specialist with the shoulderwhen the the surgeon they're
booked out for six months.
SPEAKER_01 (12:03):
And they're gonna operate, they have hammers,
yeah.
So everything's looking like anail when they got it.
SPEAKER_00 (12:09):
And that's so true, right?
You know, and hopefully we gotgood surgeons that are like,
well, you gotta go to therapyfirst.
People are waiting six monthsand then they end up back in our
office, anyways.
So we got it so backwards, youknow.
So we're we're changing the gamein that aspect where we're you
know, but these legislators theyare fully supportive.
They're like, we love our PTs,personal.
(12:30):
Like, I love my PT and I want tobe able to go them without any
restrictions.
So they just like pass this ahundred percent.
Um the American Medical or theUtah Medical Association, the
CEO, I don't even know her name,but she pushed back quite a bit.
unknown (12:46):
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (12:48):
She just I think their practice is getting
attacked a lot by the NPs andPAs, their scope and their I see
she's just feeling like thecrowdedness of like these things
couldn't get cut into pieces,and this was another piece for
her.
SPEAKER_00 (13:02):
Yeah, and um the yeah, it was just another piece
of the pie that they felt likewas taking away from them.
But as we educated her and thewhole Utah Medical Association,
they realized that this is gonnalift a burden from them.
SPEAKER_01 (13:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (13:15):
That around 40% of their patients are
musculoskeletal in nature, andthey don't want to see those
anyways.
Yeah.
And they're not good at treatingthose.
You know, they there's beenplenty of studies that have been
published that say that theprimary care providers are
actually the not nearly as good.
(13:36):
They're actually the lowestlevel tier for diagnosing and
managing musculoskeletalconditions.
And that's not against them,it's purely their skill is
somewhere else.
They're they're not they're nottrained on treating injury and
pain, they're trained on qualityof life and managing other
functions of your body, right?
(13:58):
But we should be the ones,physical therapists, leading
from the front as themusculoskeletal experts in pain
and injury from the start.
SPEAKER_01 (14:07):
Yeah, and I I think what's interesting about this is
culturally, we have been theones holding ourselves back.
Seth Coulter, who is thefounding member of a group
called Um Rehab Net in Arkansas,they they're also starting to
make some waves, renegotiatingcontracts with insurances
collectively in anon-collusion-based way.
And he told me, he said, resharpen the knives that cuts our
(14:27):
own throat as a culture ofphysical therapy uh
practitioners.
And um, where this is evidentfor me was I did a video on my
YouTube channel four years agocalled Should a Physical
Therapist Call Themself aDoctor?
That was the title of the video.
In the first five seconds, Isaid yes.
And the rest of the video wasexplaining that those studies
(14:50):
that are out there, I forgotwhere they were done, but
there's one particular landmarkstudy that compared
musculoskeletal knowledge of aphysical therapy type.
So it wasn't just PTs, it was PTstudents, PTAs, PTA students,
and then family physicians,orthopedic surgeons.
It compared everyone.
I'm sure you've seen this.
But it was interesting becausethe graph is so black and white,
(15:11):
it's like a physical therapystudent, third year, knows more
about the musculoskeletal systemthan a family physician,
internist, and all the otherdoctors.
A doctorate level PT is thesecond highest knowledge of the
musculoskeletal system next toorthopedic surgeons.
They have the greatest, which Iwould more than happy concede
that to them.
(15:32):
But what the public doesn'tunderstand is that again, even
if they are great orthopedicsurgeons and they're not going
to push to surgery, they're alsobooked out six months.
Like we are the conservative,non-surgical experts, bar none,
objectively.
And so as I put that video outthere, it blew up.
(15:52):
But do you know that the vastmajority of the comments were
negative from physicaltherapists?
SPEAKER_00 (15:58):
Our profession.
SPEAKER_01 (16:07):
Because there's this really weird, I think it's I
think it's the older generation,my group and above.
Yeah, you guys and look youngerare starting to really shift
that because you're the onesmaking$70,000, but I didn't I
didn't pay$250,000 in studentloan debt.
Like, I think that discrepancyis making it really clear, and
there's no cultural, you know,way to push against that.
(16:30):
But I'm so glad you guys areseeing that because it's it's
the truth objectively.
What you're saying isobjectively true.
SPEAKER_00 (16:35):
I was literally looking at the research just
last week on the diagnosticaccuracy per profession.
And you're talking about theorthopedic, the orthopedists
being at the highest level.
They were only 7% higher.
So it was 83%, I believe, ofdiagnostic accuracy based on
(16:57):
compared to an MRI.
So they're testing and they'resaying, based on my test, this
is your this is what we believeis wrong.
And then PTs, physicaltherapists, were 76% accurate.
The main difference that we sawin this study is that uh the
surgeons they get to go verifyit in the OR.
SPEAKER_01 (17:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (17:19):
And we don't have that piece, we miss that piece.
But the fact that we're only 7%different, and we can get you
can get on our schedule today orwait six months for them is a
huge area that and they're gonnasend you back to us anyways.
Why not just start here?
SPEAKER_01 (17:37):
That is so powerful, Brad.
I didn't know that.
It really speaks into ourpotential as we are starting to
get more and more aware of howwe could actually use
electrodiagnostics to diagnose.
Um, I don't know if you knowthis, but I'm gonna I've got
certified in EMG and diagnosticultrasound.
SPEAKER_00 (17:54):
Oh, that's awesome.
That I was actually at anultrasound uh course then they
were teaching this.
SPEAKER_01 (18:00):
No way.
Can I ask who who did it?
SPEAKER_00 (18:03):
It was uh a local guy.
Um his name is Bart.
He's with Mountainland PhysicalTherapy, but he does it across
three states.
So I think Utah, Idaho, and uhMontana.
But he goes around and teachesPTs within those states for that
practice.
SPEAKER_01 (18:20):
It's it's really a powerful thing that we should be
leaning into.
The single smallest specialtywithin the APTA is
electrodiagnostics.
Um when I when I got certified,there was only 80 of us in the
country.
80.
And now there's upwards of threeto four hundred out of 300,000
physical therapists.
It's the most interesting, andwhat's funny about that,
(18:42):
reimbursement is so much higherfor that.
So what would happen is likesomeone would come to our clinic
with the same referral, neckpain.
And then if we felt that therewas a, you know, our exam tested
them with our normal proceduresas physical therapists, that
there was somethingreferral-based, like their hand
was tingling, some paresthesiasor whatever, we would do an EMG
(19:04):
right then.
We would do that.
And it here's what'sinteresting.
The studies on that have shownthat a neurologist, which is
typically where someone goes foran EMG, and just for for
patients that are listening,like an EMG is um, you know, we
do MRIs of like the spinal, thecentral nervous system, the
brain and the spinal cord.
You can't do an MRI forperipheral nerves because
(19:27):
there's so many and they're sosmall, but you can test them
with little needles andelectronics.
It's not a very pleasant test,but you can get fairly accurate.
But most people go toneurologists and neurologists
just pay lab techs to do it.
Our accuracy, I had oneorthopedic surgeon who's a good
friend of mine say, Yeah, theonly reason I send out for EMG
testing is because insurancesrequire it before I operate,
(19:48):
because most of them are quoteunquote crap, is what he called
it.
And then I started sending himphysical therapy tests, and the
studies show PTs, because we'remusculoskeletal experts, we are
the best people to do EMGs.
There's no our accuracy aboveanyone else is so much higher,
statistically speaking.
So when a patient comes in, ifwe could start utilizing EMGs
(20:10):
and diagnostic ultrasounds, wewill surpass orthopedic surgeons
because they they aren't doingthose in-house typically.
They will under certaincircumstances, but not EMG and
ultrasound, and we have theability, let's go skeletal-wise,
without those tests to be off by7%, 8%, whatever you said.
But if we started using those,first of all, I think we would
(20:32):
occur to ourselves more asdoctors.
But then the the patientsthemselves would be like, holy
moly, this is this is family,this is my direct care link.
You know, this is my doctor inmy community.
This is who I want to go to formuscle and bone.
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (20:48):
The thing is, like, if you have a diagnostic tool
like that, I have my testing,I'm already 76% accurate with my
testing, and then I peek underthe hood.
Yeah, I'm like, oh, I was right,right?
Without surgery, by the way.
SPEAKER_01 (21:02):
Yeah, without surgery.
SPEAKER_00 (21:03):
Matching card game with my daughter, right?
I'm like, I think it's that one.
Then I flip it over, I'm like,it was that one, right?
Essentially, that's what you'redoing, and that's why orthopedic
surgeons are that 7% better, isbecause they can peek under the
hood and verify that they wereaccurate.
And the more that you do that,the better you get at it.
But we're already there, and yougive us a tool now, we're gonna
(21:25):
take it to the next level.
So I'd love for it to see.
You know, we just had at ourAPTA Utah conference, this
musculoskeletal ultrasound andEMG, kind of like a crash course
in two days.
But it was super powerful to seewhere the profession's going
because we ultimately there's somuch value we can provide, and
(21:48):
that we just need to we need toown it and we need to go with
it, right?
Because we PTs don't even knowhow much you know and how much
value you're gonna create forthe world.
Like the world is shifting,people are wanting more natural
ways of healing, they're notwanting all these other things.
Our generation now is lookingtowards things that are not
(22:11):
gonna have long-term effect ontheir body.
So if PTs, if we're ready andwe're ready to stand, we're
gonna make a s a big impact onthe world.
We're gonna be the leadingexperts in muscular care,
skeletal care.
People want to come to us first.
SPEAKER_01 (22:26):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (22:27):
And the referrals are gonna completely flip.
SPEAKER_01 (22:38):
Because the vast majority, the vast, vast
majority of what people go, thestudies have shown billions upon
billions of dollars formusculoskeletal pain and
dysfunction.
They start coming to us and wecontrol the tide, of course,
that puts our profession at thetop of the food chain where it
was meant to be.
I get on stage when I speak atthese different conferences, as
you know, and I say from thebeginning that physical therapy,
(23:01):
physical therapy is theprofession that was born to be
at the top of the food chain formusculoskeletal disorders,
period.
And full stop.
And it's just you see theuncomfortableness in the room
sometimes, which is weird, butat the end of the day, I've
never seen it like that untilyou said it.
How if we're the onescontrolling the referrals, and
by the way, I see orthopedicsurgeons loving this.
(23:22):
I think they would just lovenothing but hire qualified
candidates for their service.
If instead of like filtering outa third or whatever number it is
of their inpatient visits to belike, well, you need to go to
PT.
What if 90% of them that came inor higher were ready for
surgery, done the PT, theirmuscles are ready to go, they're
gonna respond to the surgeryquicker.
SPEAKER_00 (23:44):
Not the ones that you're sending them back, right?
You imagine 80% of your day isjust redirecting people.
Oh you're only operating on 20%.
That's what a lot of thesesurgeons feel.
And the PTs are so worried aboutrocking the boat with these MDs
and surgeons, but they want thisas well.
They want help.
They're literally booked out forsix months.
(24:05):
Like that is a huge issue thatwe can help with.
But I agree with you.
PTs are the worst.
I've had more pushback fromphysical therapists in our state
than any other profession.
The most resistance that Iphysically get is from our own.
It drives me crazy because Iwant support.
I want people to uplift us.
(24:26):
I'm like, let's create socialmedia content, let's get
blasting this out to the state,like, let's market this.
And I get comments from peoplelike, oh, you're marketing
yourself or you're marketingyour company.
SPEAKER_01 (24:37):
I'm like, oh my god.
SPEAKER_00 (24:42):
Like, this is our duty to teach people, but it
drags me down, right?
And I'm a very energetic, veryoptimistic person.
But the minute I get thingsthrown at me from my very own
family, it's hard.
It's really challenging.
But I'm getting full supportfrom our medical doctors or NPs
or PAs.
They're like, keep going.
(25:02):
And then my own is like, stop.
Like, we're not ready for this.
Like, we're not ready for thismoment to shine.
I'm like, you were born for thismoment.
Literally, we're we are creatingthe pute future.
We're in a revolution, andyou're not ready to stand, you
know.
SPEAKER_01 (25:18):
It's it's such a I'm so inspired by what you're
saying, Brad.
And and it really is this thing.
I I still can't wrap my brainaround why physical therapists
are resistant to this idea whenthey're the ones who are
underpaid and overworked.
I don't get it.
I don't obviously they don't seethe link as clearly as you and I
do.
I don't know how they don't, butit's one of those where it's so
(25:40):
inspiring to think, what wecould become if we just unified,
no one's kicking back.
Like there's a little, likethere's that lady, for example,
but but the vast majority ofpeople outside the patients
don't even know that they wantthis.
The doctors already know thatthey want this in some cases.
We just have to choose it.
We just have to choose it.
(26:01):
It's so easy for us if we justall got on the same page and
said, yeah, let's become primarycare physicians when it comes to
musculoskeletal disorders.
And then we just started showingup like doctors in the
community, which by the way,we've already paid for.
We've got a student loan debt,we've got the educational
background to prove that we'rethat great.
We just need that support.
And it's, I don't think I wantto do an episode on the like the
(26:24):
history of why we think thisway.
All I care when the gate whenyou're knees deep in alligators,
as my grandma used to say, youdon't worry about who left the
gate open.
Like we're in this state nowwhere we we are, we have knees,
we're knees deep in alligators,but pioneers like you, Seth
Coulter, and others are arekicking the alligators out.
Like we're getting there, butdon't don't get angry at the guy
(26:47):
for kicking the alligator outbecause guess what?
He gets some attention.
He he he's like a hero for doingthat, and that promotes what
he's doing.
I I call that great, greatbusiness.
If we can do anything with ourcompanies that increase the
value of our clients, ourcompany, our community, and the
world at large, that's who weshould be praising.
(27:08):
We should be like, wow, that'sgreat.
Yeah, I do want to buy from thatguy.
SPEAKER_00 (27:11):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (27:12):
Absolutely because clearly they're not making money
on this on its own direct way.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (27:17):
Yeah, we should all be linking together and say,
dude, I love what you're doing.
Let's let's drive this togetheras a cohesive unit.
But, you know, in ourprofession, it's really
interesting because it kind ofdivides us sometimes.
And I think a lot of it goesdown to this like scarcity
versus abundant mindset that wegrew up in as physical
therapists.
(27:37):
You know, we we were ancillaryservices for so long.
We lived in the basement ofsurgeons' clinics, and that's
our history.
And then we became batch, youknow, associates, then
bachelor's, then masters, thendoctorate.
So a lot of it is growing intoour own skin, right?
I'm coming into it as you know,six years out of school, and I'm
(27:58):
a doctor, you know, I'm Ifinished my doctoral program,
you know.
I am a doctor of physicaltherapy, so I grew up in that.
Not everyone else did.
So I see it with a differentlens, and I see what we can
become.
I don't see as much as where wewere.
Because I don't believe we'reancillary services.
No, I believe that we are thetop level tier for
(28:20):
musculoskeletal care.
There's no one better attreating and managing
musculoskeletal conditions thanme.
And I'll hold that up, I willargue it, I will show it, I will
demonstrate it, you know, andwe'll consistently do that, you
know.
So it's it's so fun to chatabout it and it is, it is to get
people excited about it too,because a lot of it comes to
(28:42):
internal belief too.
SPEAKER_01 (28:44):
You know what's fun is um I did an episode in May
with Heidi Janenga, the founderand CEO of of WebPT, who's a
physical therapist herself.
I got to meet three of herstudents who had received
scholarships.
She has a uh charity called theRising Tide with a Z, where she
finds money and pairs it with uhup-and-coming physical
(29:05):
therapists who come fromunderdeveloped sectors of the
world.
So these are people who normallyfinancially couldn't afford to
go to PT school.
And what was so inspiring aboutit is that this new generation
is coming up with a completelydifferent mindset.
Now we're losing PTs becausesome people jump in, they're
like, oh, they hear the craponline about how horrible it is,
and they jump out.
(29:26):
We're losing 5,000, 5,000professionals above what we
should every year to peoplesaying, I'm not doing this
anymore.
And that's so sad because thedemand is going up and up and
up.
So, you know, supply-demandcharts means we're in a position
to where if we just unify, we'llnot just take charge of like the
position from a from aleadership position.
(29:48):
Well, we can demand morefinancially.
And so these students coming injust were like, yeah, I know, I
know that it's like skewed andall these things, but we love
this too much to back down.
And We're going to do whateverit takes and not just treat our
patients and help them savemoney, but for us to make the
money we deserve so that we canhelp more people.
I I was I got emotional oncamera and it was one of my top
(30:11):
episodes this year because therewas just this like wave of
positivity, just like you, Brad.
Like I consider you a leader ofthat generation.
Because, you know, it's justthat idea of I don't know why
there's all these alligators,but let's let's solve it.
Let's it's too wonderful.
It's too wonderful.
I'm just like you.
I'm that guy with the brokenarms and legs and my Connie
(30:32):
Clemens, and it's like who mytherapist who got me to stand
and walk for the first time.
That's what we do.
We teach people how to reclaimtheir life in a literal way.
There's all these products andservices like reclaim your life.
You know, take this medication,it'll give you energy.
It's like, no, we literallyteach people to walk.
There's no comparison in termsof what we get to do.
(30:53):
So I love your passion.
Thank you for doing that.
Congratulations to you andeveryone on the Utah Leadership
Board who made this thingpossible.
How are you guys now taking thisinformation and rolling it out
to the rest of the world?
I'm sure there's some plans ortalks.
SPEAKER_00 (31:09):
Yeah, there's so many people that were a part of
this bill.
You know, it started a year anda half ago, and we ended up
getting a whole, you know, ourexecutive director, Katie
Mansell, she's been the brainsof it.
unknown (31:22):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (31:23):
She got us a I think there's about 20 of us all in a
room and private practice ownersacross Utah.
And she said, we have not doneour part to support private
practices for the last decade.
I've been in this role for adecade, and I want to make you
guys the top priority.
Because you guys are the driversfor our profession.
(31:43):
I love academia, I love thesebig institutions, but if we're
really creating change in Utahand nationally, it's private
practice owners because this isyour guys' livelihood.
So she got us all in a room andshe asked us, what's the most
important thing to you?
And this is what we ended upagreeing upon is this primary
care bill.
Um, but to go back to yourquestion, like what are we doing
(32:05):
now to share with the world?
Um, so yeah at PPS, you know,American Physical Therapy
Association private practicesections meeting, the national
leaders have asked a few of usfrom the board to attend, and
they're gonna bring us up onstage and announce to the whole
nation and the private practiceworld about this bill.
(32:26):
We're working with other states.
So there's four other states inthe nation working on the same
bill right now.
So our our director is reachingout to other directors in
different states because as weget critical mass, critical mass
is past the 50% mark.
50% of 51% of states across thenation get the same bill to
(32:47):
pass, that's when Medicare willrecognize us as primary care as
well.
And we can have thoseconversations.
But until we get that tippingpoint, it's just individual
states.
And the goal is to show extremevalue.
We don't want to just be primarycare and not act as primary
care.
SPEAKER_01 (33:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (33:06):
Physical therapists need to understand what it truly
means to be primary care.
That you're the entry point,that doesn't mean you're silo
care.
That doesn't mean you're takingcare of every single condition
on the market and neverutilizing your team.
You have to know when and who torefer out.
You have to know when to orderimaging, you gotta make good
decisions early on.
(33:27):
You know, you gotta be catchingcancer, like all these things,
right?
I can't tell you how many timesfive times I've caught cancer in
my early career.
I'm only six years.
SPEAKER_01 (33:37):
Really?
SPEAKER_00 (33:38):
Yeah, and that's because I'm ordering imaging.
I know when to order imaging.
I make good decisions when I'mfive, six minutes, six visits
in.
I don't wait 20 visits justhoping that things are gonna get
better.
If they're not naturallyprogressing as a typical linear,
you know, injuries do this,right?
They get a little better, but inoverall, as you're progressing
(34:01):
in injury in therapy, it shouldhave a linear progression.
And if it's not, we got to makedecisions quicker and and uh you
know make good decisions earlyon.
But it it's it's incredible.
If we are truly primary careproviders and we utilize our
resources, we know ourcommunity, you gotta know who
(34:21):
the surgeon is in your town, yougotta have his contact
information, you gotta know thePA, the NP.
Like, who are your players?
You're essentially thequarterback, right?
You're the person that's justkind of early on making
decisions, but that doesn't meanyou're the coach.
SPEAKER_01 (34:38):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (34:38):
You gotta know who to punt to or who to pass to,
right?
You gotta make those earlydecisions for the best care of
the patient, you know.
So there's so many things thatwe're doing now, and we're we
ended up getting Justin Moore.
We called up Justin Moore, he'sthe NCAA national president, and
he is in full support of whatwe're doing, and he's working on
(34:59):
a grant for Utah right now tosupport us financially to be
able to push some additionalbills.
Um, and then we got MikeHorsfield over at PPS.
We're gonna be meeting up withhim to get some matching grant
money to potentially get somefunding to support everything
that we're doing because we wantall of Utah to know.
(35:19):
We don't want this to just bepassing the bill and no one
knows about it.
We want to like get this messageacross Utah, showing the value
in it, show them the researchbehind it, and get people to
line up and say, this is thetipping point.
Like, is we get critical mass inUtah to truly understand our
value and what we can providethem?
(35:41):
And then the harder part isgetting the PTs to deliver it.
SPEAKER_01 (35:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (35:47):
Because I believe it, right?
I believe I can do it, I believeI've trained my team to do it.
But can every physical therapistin Utah double down on their con
ed, on their continuededucation, that they can make
good decisions early on well,right?
Getting everyone to believe thatthey are primary care role and
to act in that way, to introducethemselves as a doctor of
(36:11):
physical therapy rather thansome ancillary basement service
that's just you know required bya surgeon before surgery.
There's so many things that uhwe're working on, we're going
into universities, so I just gotdone uh presenting at a
university two weeks ago whereI'm teaching people about
primary care because I want toteach the babies.
SPEAKER_01 (36:32):
Yeah, baby.
SPEAKER_00 (36:33):
We're gonna change the world, let's teach the
rising generation because I had60 DPT students, I think second
years, and they were riled upabout this.
They're so excited.
And yeah, so we're working withuniversities to teach them, and
obviously teaching students inour clinic, but there's a lot of
(36:53):
fun stuff that we're doing.
We're kind of working atmultiple angles here.
SPEAKER_01 (36:56):
Yeah, it's funny because as you mentioned this,
you know, I I used to before mycurrent company started growing,
I used to do a lot of consultingfor people to how to recruit.
And um, one of the biggestthings I would teach them, and
it was this like shift inmindset from being in scarcity
versus abundance, was servethem, serve the rising
(37:16):
generation, be in front of themwith your rally cry of whatever
you're passionate about.
And I would argue there'snothing more amazing or
passionate than what you'resaying to go in there and talk
about how we're gonna change theprofession.
And that is how you get trust,and now people hire.
I used to have a bench of peoplewhen it was harder for others to
recruit because I was teachingentrepreneurship and leadership.
(37:38):
I wasn't changing the professionthe way that you are.
And the great thing is there isa scarcity in in when you look
at how many jobs there areversus how many PTs coming there
are, but there is so muchopportunity for whoever is going
to not like just resist, butlike be openly accepting and and
even stand in front and say,let's change it together.
(38:01):
Those PTs will never have a hardtime recruiting.
And it's not because that's notagain to the counter-argument of
people who are like, oh, you'redoing it for that.
It's like, no, that's just it.
The purpose is what drives it,it's the product later that
comes in tail.
And so, yeah, greater profitshappen, greater recruiting
happens, greater all the thingsbecause we're fighting for the
(38:22):
greater good of all.
People think with scarcity thatthere's limited resources,
there's so much abundance.
There's enough, there's a wayfor every PT practice in the
world, and then some to haveplenty of PT students, but it
comes from us shifting themindset to where we get more
people wanting to join becausewe're out there changing the
industry.
So I just want to point thatout.
(38:42):
I love how like the rising tideis leadership.
You said something I gotta digon, Brad.
You said, you know, we'rechanging the minds of the
babies, the up and comingregeneration.
You said before that you do itin your own practice.
I almost feel like you know,that phrase of like we have to
change the world within our ownhomes.
Like, how are you doing that atfoundation physical therapy?
(39:05):
How are you helping your teammembers like understand all of
these things and get on boardwith them?
SPEAKER_00 (39:12):
That is a great question.
There's multiple facets, as youknow.
Um, the biggest one that wefocus on this year is making
sure our orientation,onboarding, and mentorship
experience is just through theroof.
That they know our values likethe back of their hand, they
know what we're all about, theyknow our brand, they know our
(39:34):
heart, why we exist in the firstplace, they know our purpose.
But it's deeply ingrained s intheir heart, so they make
decisions with the values at theforefront of their mind, not as,
oh yeah, just on the wall in thewaiting room.
It's like, no, we we teach thesevalues because they're gonna be
a compass to you, they're gonnahelp you navigate challenging
(39:58):
situations and they're gonnahelp you make the right decision
because every decision you face,you can't have a written script
for.
But if I teach you a value, thevalue of always progressing,
right?
How is that gonna guide yourdecision when you're mapping out
your continued education plan?
(40:18):
So one thing that we do with weour value is to always progress.
And so we created uh we call itan unlimited con ed budget.
It's is it unlimited to acertain extent, right?
But we have them map out theirwhole year.
Show me your whole year con edplan.
I want to see how you structureit, I want to see the sequence.
(40:41):
Here's my suggested sequence ofhow you build upon it.
So we we give that to them, andthen we have them map out the
whole year.
And then, all right, let'sbudget it.
So it's it's not like it'scompletely unlimited, it's not
like we just have unlimitedmoney, right?
We're wise in how we spend that,but we're very particular on how
we coach our therapists on theircontinued education.
(41:04):
We want to know what Kool-Aidthey're drinking from and why.
You know, and what I meanKool-Aid is like what who are
you learning from?
Who do we suggest from as acompany?
Because these new grads come outand they're like, I want to get
dry-nealing certified, I want todo the KT tape course, I want to
do like all these passivethings, which are great, but
let's have you master thefoundational skills of how to
(41:25):
load a tendon, how to you knowprogress a sequence of exercise.
Let's get the foundation setbefore we build the home, right?
So we really, it's not we we areit's a balance of not
controlling, but teaching,right?
And and coaching and showingthem the way rather than saying
(41:45):
being a dictator.
So we're more of a guide throughthis process than a dictator.
Because I'm saying this is thatcould be a way, but here is a a
better way in my eyes, right?
And you can test it, you can tryit, but it's been tried and
true.
Yeah, and so that's one thingthat we do.
We also talk about uh differentgrowth models, so we have
(42:07):
different pathways in whichpeople can grow.
So, you know, just a therapist,if they want to be a master
clinician, or if they want to bea world-class clinician, we have
certain criteria for each one ofthose things, or they want to be
a clinic director or anoperations director.
So there's different pathways inwhich they can go, and sometimes
they can do most of themsimultaneously, they can follow
two paths at the same time.
(42:28):
You know, I got one clinicianthat he's a he's a mentor for a
new therapist and workingtowards being a clinical
instructor, but he also isworking towards being a clinic
director.
So, but we create these pathwaysfor all different all of our
positions because I worked in ahospital, I just felt like I hit
the ceiling.
I could never grow.
(42:48):
I was always just a therapist.
SPEAKER_01 (42:51):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (42:52):
I had no supervisor, I had no con ed plan, I had no
growth models, I had noopportunities to move up in
leadership, and I just thought,I'm like, where am I going with
my career?
And so that's why we createdthese growth plans.
And I've had a lot of mentorshipon how to do this from different
people, but it's been the mostpowerful thing that I've done in
(43:14):
my organization.
When people can see that theyhave opportunities to become the
next level, it's not likethey're going up in tiers, it's
that they're going up inprogression in their life,
they're taking on differentresponsibility that they're most
passionate and proficient in.
You know?
So it's so fun to go into thoseareas.
We have profit share programsfor every position.
(43:37):
Even our aides have profit shareprograms.
Um, so they know how they'regetting a piece of the pie, too,
right?
We and it's it's always awin-win.
It's not like they get a profitshare and it takes from someone
else.
It's that if the therapist isgetting a profit share because
of their production, the frontoffice coordinator is as well,
and the aide is as well.
(43:58):
And we just we power to powerwith everyone.
And it's so great because theyall it's this lateral
management, they manage eachother, not the top-down
approach, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (44:11):
Yeah, that's so cool.
I you know, it LinkedIn says 88%of people leave a company
because they don't see a futurein it.
And what you do is create thesefutures for them.
And that I think opens the doorfor them to understand when you
start talking about the futureof the industry, why it matters
to them.
It's kind of like I I believe abig part of why we're in the
(44:33):
position we're in is that we asleaders have been so subdued
from the pressures andsuppression of low reimbursement
and not having enough time thatwe don't even know if we're
coming or going.
That's why we do stupid thingslike resist guys who are
breaking free.
And I'm willing to bet a lot ofthat's just jealousy.
It's like, well, where's thisguy get to get all this
(44:53):
business?
He's doing it for self-servingbecause I care about my
patients.
No, you don't know.
You just don't know what I'm notangry.
I'm just saying they don't knowwhat they don't know because I
used to be that guy.
So for you, you do that withyour people.
My question to you is what comesfirst, or does it all go
together?
The the investment in the teammember and then the realization
(45:13):
of how we need to stand as anindustry, or do they come to you
because they're passionate aboutwhat you're doing for the
industry and then just learn andgrow from there?
Or is it a combination of thosethings?
SPEAKER_00 (45:23):
You know, I'd say it's a combination.
Ultimately, I was tellingtalking to our marketing team
who was who's assisting withrecruiting.
unknown (45:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (45:31):
And ultimately, that's marketing, right?
SPEAKER_01 (45:33):
A hundred percent.
SPEAKER_00 (45:34):
But yes, working on recruiting, and I I told them, I
said, I want to be soridiculously attractive as a
group that we don't ever have toplace an ad.
Like, people are naturally drawnto us.
And I can't tell you how manytimes we've hired a patient that
is a front office coordinator.
I have like five of my oldpatients that are now my team
(45:58):
members, right?
Because they loved it so muchand it changed their lives so
much.
And you know who the bestadvocate for PT is?
It's those people that werepatients.
SPEAKER_01 (46:09):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (46:10):
I was treated by Brad, and it changed my life.
And I know when it gets hard andyou don't want to do your
exercises, it is the best thingthat you can do.
That's my front officecoordinator on the phone, or my
office manager, right?
And my my personnel director wasa patient, right?
She just bends over backwards,advocating for patients and for
(46:33):
team members, right?
She's creating a teamexperience.
Yeah, we had we did our NPS forour employees.
It was a 9.2 rating out of 10.
SPEAKER_01 (46:43):
Let's go.
SPEAKER_00 (46:44):
Thrilled to work here, right?
And to work with us.
It's because of the experiencewe're creating for them.
And we put so much thought andintention into every single
piece.
It just becomes so fun becauseyou're literally just creating
jobs for people that they love,you know.
But yes, there are thingshappening simultaneously, but I
wanted to be so attractive as acompany that people just want,
(47:08):
they walk to us because they'relike, You are doing amazing
things.
I want to come work with you.
What do I have to do to workwith you, right?
And we create this funnel ofstudents that are just like I I
went to a career fair justbarely this last week at the
University of Utah talking tostudents, and uh it's it's so
(47:28):
fun because they're so young andthey're like, I'm coming to your
clinic to do an internship.
I'm like, that's awesome.
And I've never met them before,right?
Like, I saw you on Instagram orI saw your podcast.
I love what you came and spoketo our class this one time, and
then we get these students, andwe had seven full-time students
last year, and we picked two.
(47:48):
We took the two best, right?
That aligned with our mission,our values, and our purpose.
And those two therapists arerock stars, right?
But they've they've worked withus, they've learned our systems,
they are like their hearts init.
One of them was I student, hewill bend over backwards, he'll
take a bullet for the team.
Like, it is just it, you know,when you do those things, you
(48:12):
talked about serving, yeah,right?
That's marketing.
Figure out how you serve people,right?
If you want to create a greatrecruiting funnel, how just go
serve them.
SPEAKER_01 (48:24):
Serve better and harder and more authentically
than anyone else, and therecruiting will take care of
itself.
I think people forget that theythink of all people as the same.
We make the same mistake withhiring that the industry that
the population does withphysical therapy.
We get commoditized, meaning,oh, I tried physical therapy.
(48:45):
Really?
Have you also tried dentistry?
Have you tried orthopedic?
No one does that except forphysical therapy because of how
we have commoditized ourselvesand we do it with the when we
hire.
It's like, oh, I just need aphysical therapist.
No, you don't.
Right.
You need the right human beingwho also has a degree to be your
(49:07):
therapist.
And so when we stop thinkingscarcity, we start thinking
abundantly, it's like, well, Ican't, I can't serve everyone.
I can help everybody, but I canonly go a mile deep or serve so
many people.
So who of the next generationcan I help the most?
And that was me in recruiting.
I wanted to help entrepreneurslike me who really cared about
(49:29):
owning their own thing one day,which is counterintuitive.
Why would you hire someone who'sgonna go up against you?
Well, that's scarcity mindsetagain.
I hired people who wanted tolearn from me because I was
gonna teach them everything Iknew about entrepreneurship.
And those are guys like yourpartner, Jared Egan, who wanted
to own his own thing one day.
And when we before I sold mypractice, he told me, He's like,
(49:50):
I'm never gonna, I never want toopen my own thing.
I just want to work togetherwith you forever because there's
not not everyone's a Jared Egan.
They're very few and farbetween.
The two that you hired are veryfew and far between, the guys
that take a bullet for the team.
Yeah, and so as we serve harderand deeper, we attract the best
of the best.
And those are the game changers,the rainmakers, the ones that
(50:10):
make everything possible for usto achieve the bigger dream.
But the dream can't be ours.
It's gotta be ours.
It can't be ours personally,it's gotta be ours collectively.
What can we do for the industryto make a change?
And when we start with thatdream and pronounce it, we
attract those people.
And then while everyone else isfighting over the rest of the
individuals with variousalignment and talent and
(50:32):
capability, the very select feware working with the best of the
best.
And so when we I I love the ideaof how thinking abundantly isn't
just right for some of us, it'sactually there's enough space
for everyone in the industry tothink that way because we would
just grow the pie instead offighting over the the scraps
that we perceive that is left.
SPEAKER_00 (50:50):
Absolutely.
Yeah, I totally agree.
And it's you know, it's it's sofun.
The the book The Go Giver, I'msure you've read.
Yeah, it's it's all about this,right?
Like, how do you solve people'sproblems?
How do you truly authenticallyserve people in the most
authentic way of who you are,right?
And my authentic way is just togo and teach.
(51:13):
I love teaching, I loveexplaining things that make
sense in my head.
I love advocating for ourprofession, I love having a
voice, you know.
I think you're probably cut fromthe same cloth as me.
You've probably felt suppressedas a child, and that's why you
have such a strong voice now.
You know, there you you speakfor other people, you advocate
(51:35):
for other people.
And you know, I just finished mystrategic plan for next year and
presented it to our team.
We're hiring seven therapistsnext year.
SPEAKER_01 (51:42):
Let's go.
SPEAKER_00 (51:43):
And um, we already have eight therapists in the
docket that we're working oncreating relationships with,
consistently serving, right?
Because if and when, right, andthat strategy actually
deliberately happens, you know,if things will change, sure,
they'll merge along the way.
But we have all these peoplethat are already attracted to
(52:05):
us, they already want to comework with us, and we're just
saying, we're ready, let's bringyou on, you know, and this is
the time frame.
So we're already we alreadymapped out when people are
graduating, when they want tojoin our team, and we we gotta
get our team ready for that.
We gotta, and the beauty is youbring on seven new therapists,
what happens to your currenttherapists?
(52:27):
Yeah, they move into otherleadership positions where
they're mentoring these youngerones, so it's such a beautiful
thing because you have thesegrowth models internally where
people are growing and they getmore opportunity, and then you
bring on these young people thatare just super attracted to the
company and they're superexcited for the profession, and
it just feeds itself.
But it all starts with servingpeople, just serve them and
(52:51):
serve them well, serve themdeeply, authentically, and in
such a caring way, and iteverything else takes care of
itself.
SPEAKER_01 (52:59):
Amen.
I um think of Bob Herman, RobertHerman, who owns the largest
pediatric company in thecountry.
He's in Arizona.
I have the privilege of hearinghim speak, and a lot of what you
said is how he talks.
And it's this idea of like youget momentum when you have the
right alignment with purpose andvalues.
And there's so many people whoare listening to this episode
(53:19):
right now who are possiblyfeeling a little less than as
they're hearing this.
And I want to speak directly tothe PTOT SLP leader who or
private practice leader whofeels like, yeah, Brad, and
maybe we'll have it figured out.
I never can get there.
I get what they're saying, butI'm um, that's not me.
(53:40):
And I would call them out veryloudly because what I this is
true, almost, and the onlyreason I don't say every single
one is because it's very rare.
The vast majority of PT ownersthat I've met, OT SLP owners
I've ever met, they're actuallyborn to do this.
That's why they chose what theydid.
They chose this because of theirbig heart.
(54:01):
So I always say if you're a PTOT SLP owner that gets treats
from your patients, like theybring you cookies and you know
you can make it rain with loveand improvement, then you were
born to be the type of leaderthat Brad is.
You just don't understand how todo it.
Like it hasn't occurred to youthat what you're doing for that
patient and the way you thinkabout money is actually
(54:23):
transferable to how you growyour business.
Because, you know, part of thereason we're in the position
we're in is because we don'treally think enough about money
when we're treating ourpatients.
And that there's a degree ofthat that's useful, meaning
we're serving so much that we'renot like, you know, charging
every second of our time in theway that we really should be if
we're being accountable.
So if what if we served openlyto the next generation?
(54:45):
What if we showed up as atherapist treating the next
generation of patients,assessing their pain points,
analyzing their limitations,implementing plans of care that
we will be in terms of educationand knowledge, and then support
them along their way?
Well, that right there is ablueprint for the most powerful
(55:05):
recruiting strategy of all time.
If we can just present it inthat way.
So everyone who's listeningwho's like, that I don't think I
could ever be like a Brad, noman, like you are your version
of that.
You just haven't experienced ityet.
And the more and the reason Bradand I want you to get there is
because if you can get therementally, you can join us in
(55:28):
that movement of changing theprofession.
Because at the end of the day,if we can free up the owners and
get paid what we're worth, we'regonna make the patient care
experience so awesome that weare gonna net save billions of
dollars, not to mentioncountless hours of suffering for
people who needlessly go throughopioid addiction, needless
(55:50):
surgeries, and so on.
We can unite in a way that'sgoing to move the tide of health
care globally.
So it's not just nice for you tomake profits, listeners.
It's not a good thing for you tomake money.
It's essential that you get thetime and money for the value you
provide so that we allcollectively can make tomorrow
(56:12):
what it was meant to be forhealthcare.
SPEAKER_00 (56:14):
Amen to that, Will.
I I would add that it's ourmoral duty to do that.
Like there's so much that we canprovide that can change people's
lives, that can reduce sufferingin the world, that can literally
take people from where they areand get them to live the life
(56:35):
they always wanted.
And we have, we were born forthis.
You know, it was just a day ortwo ago, you know, it seems,
that I felt the same way of whatyou're describing.
I appreciate the complimentsthere.
Um, but I felt like I didn'thave a voice and you know, I
didn't wasn't gonna make a lotof change in the world.
(56:55):
But then I realized if I'm notgonna do it, who is?
Like I have this knowledge.
Am I gonna just sit on it or amI actually gonna go share it
with the world?
So many people don't know whatwe know, and if we share it, it
can literally save lives.
And I tell you know our teamthat frequently like we
(57:18):
literally save lives.
I can't tell many patients thathave told me that I was getting
close to taking my own lifebecause of the physical, mental
suffering that I was in.
And I'm so grateful for what youhave done to give me my life
back.
But just think about thosepeople as you are thinking about
(57:39):
your voice.
You know think about how manypeople are suffering.
Who speaks for them, whoadvocates for them?
I think both me and you canagree, like we're we're
advocating for our old selves.
Right?
The the little boy that wassuffering that didn't get the
care that they deserved, or youknow, had the give was given
(58:02):
their life back when it wastaken away by some accident, and
we got a second chance.
And now we get to go speak forall those people on the value
that we could create, and thatyou don't have to be reliant
upon all these other things thatmay or may not create that value
for your life, but we can reallychange lives with just the
(58:22):
simple physical therapytechniques that we know.
SPEAKER_01 (58:25):
Yeah, because when we change people physically,
temporally, we can move thempermanently, emotionally, and
spiritually.
And that's why you and I decidedto join this industry.
It's what everyone knows deepdown, even if they can't
articulate it as to why we dowhat we do.
So, man, Brad, it's beenphenomenal having you on the
show.
(58:46):
People are gonna want to get reare gonna want to reach out to
you.
Number one, how how do theyadvocate they're gonna want to
reach out to you?
People are gonna want to workwith you are gonna reach out to
you.
Patients are listening, that'sgoing, where do I get care from
foundation physical therapy?
And again, that's not why we didthe show, but I also know that's
exactly what's gonna happen.
How do they get a hold of you?
SPEAKER_00 (59:04):
Yeah, so we uh we have all social media accounts.
Our our the podcast is calledthe Healthcare Revolution, and
um our company's FoundationPhysical Therapy, and it's just
uh foundationPTUTA.com.
You can message us there, youcan message us on Instagram, um,
my emails brad at foundationptutah.com.
You can email me.
(59:25):
But I want this this professionto just I I want to use the term
blow up because that that itblow up in such a good way.
Like I want it to go across theworld of the value.
I want to be the the primaryrole for pain and injury.
Like there's no one that shouldbe at the front lines more than
us.
And I will I will help anyone inour profession or any other
(59:49):
profession to succeed because Iwant all of us to succeed and
really to create that value forthe world.
SPEAKER_01 (59:56):
Thank you, Brad.
Such a pleasure to get to bewith you again.
Thanks for being on the show.
SPEAKER_00 (01:00:00):
Likewise well, thanks so much for having me.
Did you know that in Utah, physical therapists are
now primary care providers?
The law changed in one of themost groundbreaking bills that
have been passed that allowphysical therapists to be the
initial point of entry for allmusculoskeletal disorders.
Our guest is Brad Powell.
He's not only a physicaltherapist and an entrepreneur,
(00:21):
he is a change maker on thegovernmental level to help our
profession take a stand in whatwe were born to be, which is
doctors in the community.
We were born to lead themusculoskeletal industry.
And in this episode, we'rebreaking down how he did it, how
you can do it, and how you canreclaim the life that you
deserve, not because you deserveit, but because your patients
(00:45):
need the version of you that'sprofitable and able to change
their lives on a greater scale.
I can't say enough about thisshow other than one big plea.
This episode, more than anyepisode, please send to your
friends.
Please post this on socialmedia.
Please be loud after you listento this.
If you are in any way passionateabout PT, OT, or SLP, this is
(01:07):
the episode I want you topromote.
Enjoy the show.
Brad, I'm so excited to have youon the show.
Thanks for coming.
SPEAKER_00 (01:16):
I'm excited to be here.
Thanks, Will.
Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_01 (01:19):
So set the table for us.
Talk a little bit about who youare and why you love doing what
you do.
SPEAKER_00 (01:24):
My name's Brad Powell.
I'm the owner of FoundationPhysical Therapy.
I raced motocross professionallyas a young teenager.
unknown (01:33):
Really?
SPEAKER_00 (01:34):
Some pretty crazy injuries, broke over 34 bones,
very similar to you.
Oh, that's right.
I didn't have a falling offcliff experience like you and
shattering, you know, my pelvisor back or legs, but uh
definitely had a lot of injuriesthrough the years.
Almost lost my leg tocompartment syndrome.
Um had to learn how to walkagain at 17 years old, and then
(01:57):
decided this sounded like areally cool career.
So that's been literally thefoundation for my life.
That's why I called itfoundation physical therapy,
because it gave me my life back,and I didn't think I'd ever walk
again.
I couldn't move my leg at all,and to now I have no issues at
all with my body, you know, withall my broken bones.
(02:17):
I've done CrossFit competitions,rode my bike around Utah Lake,
which was about 100 miles, andum just done a lot of you know
athletic competitions in thelast few years, and I just love
our profession as physicaltherapists because we literally
can create so much value withjust education, and we can
literally create freedom for somany people.
(02:39):
Our purpose statement in mycompany is to help people live
the life they always wanted.
And um it's just been such anincredible career to help people
truly see what they're capableof and you know, take them with
pain and disability and showthem they don't have to stay
there and do it na in naturalways.
(02:59):
We don't even need medicine ormedication or injections, we can
do it in other ways, and I'm notsaying to diminish those at all
because they have value andthey're very important, but it's
just so fun to use our knowledgeto just take people to the next
level with exercise and painmodulation techniques that we
use.
Um, I run a podcast called theHealthcare Revolution.
SPEAKER_01 (03:21):
So it's highly recommend it.
I love it because I think you'retackling something in that show
that is what everyone's cravingright now, which is information
on how we can make a difference.
SPEAKER_00 (03:31):
Yeah, and it the healthcare revolution just
started from you know, as Istarted to jump into practice, I
realized that there was thishuge gap in patients
understanding how to navigatethe complex medical system that
we're in, and also the providersgiving them the information that
they need.
It was like there was thisbridge that wasn't gapped.
(03:53):
Like it was just like there's ahuge separation between
providers and patients.
So the healthcare revolution isall about bringing us all
together as one and workingcollectively as a team, the
patient communicating ways inwhich helps the provider, and
the provider helping in wayswhich helps the patient, and
then also giving them tips ofhow to navigate this complex
(04:16):
system, how to you know workwith their insurance companies
to get the very best and to makesure they get they advocate for
themselves and they don't getyou know nailed with denials and
and things like that.
So we we spend some time talkingabout the insurance game and how
to navigate that.
And then we love bringing newproviders on.
(04:36):
We bring surgeons, doctors, NPs,PAs.
We talk about these complexissues and how we can solve them
and give people helpful tips ofhow they can create the best for
their life and live the lifethey wanted.
So love doing the podcast, lovetalking about you know complex
issues, and I love rocking theboat too.
You know, like there's so manyissues in our in our healthcare
(04:58):
system that have been created,and I want to break through
those barriers.
I believe we're in a healthcarerevolution right now where you
know things are changing for thebetter.
I just had a podcast thismorning on medicine 3.0.
And medicine 3.0 is focusing onprevention.
Like, why are we focusing on youknow creating longevity for
(05:20):
people if the quality of lifeisn't good as well?
Let's focus on quality of lifeand longevity of life.
So that's what medicine 3.0 isall about is what are we doing
in people's 20s to preventosteoporosis and and spine
disease and all these otherthings.
It's just it's it's just so funto get everyone together and
(05:42):
have these conversations.
SPEAKER_01 (05:43):
Yeah, it's I mean it's interesting to know how
like you go back twogenerations, even one
generation, and they don'trunning like just going to a gym
was like, why would you do that?
Right, and now it's commonplacein our culture, and so it's
shifting.
I'm grateful to see that it willgo towards prevention as we
learn about you know, PeterAtia, who talks about VO2 Max,
(06:04):
how it's the greatest measure ofwhat's it is, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:06):
That's they actually coined this term, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (06:09):
Yeah, and and for I love that you're in that space
because for this generation'ssmart, like they're in their
20s, they're oh, they'reactually open to it, so they
need people like you who areyounger than me that they'll
listen to but old enough towhere they can still like feel
like they have some mentoring inthere.
SPEAKER_00 (06:24):
Oh, you're a pretty young buck still.
SPEAKER_01 (06:26):
Yeah, it's it's not the years, Brad, it's the
mileage.
But truly, like I'm so excitedthat three that healthcare
revolution podcast exists andit's very popular.
I mean, just as a side note, notonly was it really good, but I
listened and I was doingresearch.
It's a very successful show.
I think people are craving thatkind of information, both in
(06:47):
terms of how to navigatehealthcare.
So it sounds like the show isabout the is for the audience of
patients and the providers, kindof a connecting that that link.
SPEAKER_00 (06:55):
It really is, yeah.
Because, you know, providersneed to understand this as well,
you know, the gaps in care.
And patients come onto thepodcast as well and tell their
story.
It's helpful for providers tosee through a different lens to
see how what they're saying canhave a negative impact.
Because sometimes we don't thinkabout what we're saying to a
(07:18):
patient, and we don't realizehow many issues that can create
in their life.
You know, just by saying onething in a just a nonchalant way
can really negatively impact apatient for decades and even
generations.
So we've had a lot of reallyinteresting podcasts on that,
and is how you know I have oneexample uh a provider here in
(07:40):
Utah told a young mom uh shedidn't want to get a certain
vaccination within their clinic,and the pediatrician kicked her
out of the clinic and actuallysaid, You have to go find a new
provider.
If you're not gonna followexactly what we're doing here in
our practice, we will not seeyou.
Oh, now this this mom, she she'snever gonna go to the doctor
(08:03):
again.
She's like, I don't trustdoctors, like I'm never gonna do
that.
And then how does thatperpetuate the next generation?
Yeah, you know, how are kidsgonna perceive doctors because
this young mom was treated inthat manner?
You know, but scary.
Yeah, it's wild for sure.
And then I get I guess the lastpiece we've been working on
quite a bit.
(08:23):
I'm on the APTA board ofdirectors here in Utah.
SPEAKER_01 (08:26):
Oh, yeah, let's dig in on this.
This is a big deal.
So let me set the stage beforeyou continue.
Sorry to interrupt.
No, I I want the audience tohear this because all the
healthcare listener providerswho are listening are all just
you know feeling a little ateffect from the way that things
have gone.
But you guys just did somethingmassive.
It's getting recognized at theprivate practice section of the
APTA here in a couple weeks.
(08:48):
Yeah, let's talk about how youguys have led the way in Utah,
and you're a part of that APTAgroup, yes?
SPEAKER_00 (08:54):
Yes, yeah.
So I'm over, I'm specificallyover practic payment and
practice.
So I got recruited, they tuggedmy my uh heartstrings at getting
paid better.
And you know, I've always been ahuge advocate.
Like we have a doctoral degree,and we provide so much freaking
value for what we do to theworld.
Why are we getting paid 70k ayear?
(09:16):
You know, that is just it blowsme away that that's how much
physical therapists make.
So this has been a huge push forme.
So, you know, a bunch of peopleon the board just kind of uh
tugged me a little bit and said,Hey, we need someone that has
your passion to be in thisspecific spot.
So, yes, I'm over payment andpractice, so representing
(09:39):
private practice here in Utahand increasing our ability to
get paid well.
Um, but yes, we passed this billto become primary care providers
in Utah.
So we're the first in the nationto make this happen.
It is is groundbreakinglegislative support.
We had a hundred percentunanimous support from both the
Senate and the House.
(10:00):
It literally didn't rock theboat at all.
SPEAKER_01 (10:03):
Like everyone's like, this is a no-brainer.
SPEAKER_00 (10:05):
Yes, they literally said, uh, why haven't you done
this years ago?
And these like I don't know whythat's so funny.
SPEAKER_01 (10:15):
I just like the the legislation people are like,
yeah, what took you guys solong?
SPEAKER_00 (10:19):
Yeah, like chiropractors have done this,
you know, 20 years ago.
Why are you why are you guysjust doing this, right?
But ultimately, what it wasabout is getting paid better.
You know, like how do you getpaid better?
You could go after insurancecompanies and say, yes, we need
to get paid better, here's theresearch, and they're like,
Yeah, yeah, we don't reallycare, right?
(10:40):
But how do you show it?
We we wanted to show it by beingby having a title.
If we are we were already directto access in Utah, which means
people could come directly withto us.
We've been that for you know 20years or so, but no one knows
that in Utah.
They're like, Well, I need areferral to come to you.
(11:00):
The majority of people thinkthat, right?
But this has been 20 years agowe've been able to do this, but
now that we're primary care,we're pushing out marketing
strategies to across the stateof Utah to teach people you
don't need to go see a physicianfirst.
You know, you need you can godirectly to a physical therapist
for anything, pain or injury,and they can take care of your
(11:21):
needs there.
And as you as the entry point tocare, it's beautiful because
around 75% of people get betterwith PT.
So we can take care of the bigmajority, and then we are better
stewards at referring out, wherewe are telling the patients, the
next step is this, and we'regonna refer you to this clinic
(11:44):
if you're not improving in ourclinic, right?
But that's how the system shouldwork.
We have it so backwards wherepeople are just they they want
the specialist.
They're like, I want to go tothe orthopedic surgeon
specialist with the shoulderwhen the the surgeon they're
booked out for six months.
SPEAKER_01 (12:03):
And they're gonna operate, they have hammers,
yeah.
So everything's looking like anail when they got it.
SPEAKER_00 (12:09):
And that's so true, right?
You know, and hopefully we gotgood surgeons that are like,
well, you gotta go to therapyfirst.
People are waiting six monthsand then they end up back in our
office, anyways.
So we got it so backwards, youknow.
So we're we're changing the gamein that aspect where we're you
know, but these legislators theyare fully supportive.
They're like, we love our PTs,personal.
(12:30):
Like, I love my PT and I want tobe able to go them without any
restrictions.
So they just like pass this ahundred percent.
Um the American Medical or theUtah Medical Association, the
CEO, I don't even know her name,but she pushed back quite a bit.
unknown (12:46):
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (12:48):
She just I think their practice is getting
attacked a lot by the NPs andPAs, their scope and their I see
she's just feeling like thecrowdedness of like these things
couldn't get cut into pieces,and this was another piece for
her.
SPEAKER_00 (13:02):
Yeah, and um the yeah, it was just another piece
of the pie that they felt likewas taking away from them.
But as we educated her and thewhole Utah Medical Association,
they realized that this is gonnalift a burden from them.
SPEAKER_01 (13:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (13:15):
That around 40% of their patients are
musculoskeletal in nature, andthey don't want to see those
anyways.
Yeah.
And they're not good at treatingthose.
You know, they there's beenplenty of studies that have been
published that say that theprimary care providers are
actually the not nearly as good.
(13:36):
They're actually the lowestlevel tier for diagnosing and
managing musculoskeletalconditions.
And that's not against them,it's purely their skill is
somewhere else.
They're they're not they're nottrained on treating injury and
pain, they're trained on qualityof life and managing other
functions of your body, right?
(13:58):
But we should be the ones,physical therapists, leading
from the front as themusculoskeletal experts in pain
and injury from the start.
SPEAKER_01 (14:07):
Yeah, and I I think what's interesting about this is
culturally, we have been theones holding ourselves back.
Seth Coulter, who is thefounding member of a group
called Um Rehab Net in Arkansas,they they're also starting to
make some waves, renegotiatingcontracts with insurances
collectively in anon-collusion-based way.
And he told me, he said, resharpen the knives that cuts our
(14:27):
own throat as a culture ofphysical therapy uh
practitioners.
And um, where this is evidentfor me was I did a video on my
YouTube channel four years agocalled Should a Physical
Therapist Call Themself aDoctor?
That was the title of the video.
In the first five seconds, Isaid yes.
And the rest of the video wasexplaining that those studies
(14:50):
that are out there, I forgotwhere they were done, but
there's one particular landmarkstudy that compared
musculoskeletal knowledge of aphysical therapy type.
So it wasn't just PTs, it was PTstudents, PTAs, PTA students,
and then family physicians,orthopedic surgeons.
It compared everyone.
I'm sure you've seen this.
But it was interesting becausethe graph is so black and white,
(15:11):
it's like a physical therapystudent, third year, knows more
about the musculoskeletal systemthan a family physician,
internist, and all the otherdoctors.
A doctorate level PT is thesecond highest knowledge of the
musculoskeletal system next toorthopedic surgeons.
They have the greatest, which Iwould more than happy concede
that to them.
(15:32):
But what the public doesn'tunderstand is that again, even
if they are great orthopedicsurgeons and they're not going
to push to surgery, they're alsobooked out six months.
Like we are the conservative,non-surgical experts, bar none,
objectively.
And so as I put that video outthere, it blew up.
(15:52):
But do you know that the vastmajority of the comments were
negative from physicaltherapists?
SPEAKER_00 (15:58):
Our profession.
SPEAKER_01 (16:07):
Because there's this really weird, I think it's I
think it's the older generation,my group and above.
Yeah, you guys and look youngerare starting to really shift
that because you're the onesmaking$70,000, but I didn't I
didn't pay$250,000 in studentloan debt.
Like, I think that discrepancyis making it really clear, and
there's no cultural, you know,way to push against that.
(16:30):
But I'm so glad you guys areseeing that because it's it's
the truth objectively.
What you're saying isobjectively true.
SPEAKER_00 (16:35):
I was literally looking at the research just
last week on the diagnosticaccuracy per profession.
And you're talking about theorthopedic, the orthopedists
being at the highest level.
They were only 7% higher.
So it was 83%, I believe, ofdiagnostic accuracy based on
(16:57):
compared to an MRI.
So they're testing and they'resaying, based on my test, this
is your this is what we believeis wrong.
And then PTs, physicaltherapists, were 76% accurate.
The main difference that we sawin this study is that uh the
surgeons they get to go verifyit in the OR.
SPEAKER_01 (17:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (17:19):
And we don't have that piece, we miss that piece.
But the fact that we're only 7%different, and we can get you
can get on our schedule today orwait six months for them is a
huge area that and they're gonnasend you back to us anyways.
Why not just start here?
SPEAKER_01 (17:37):
That is so powerful, Brad.
I didn't know that.
It really speaks into ourpotential as we are starting to
get more and more aware of howwe could actually use
electrodiagnostics to diagnose.
Um, I don't know if you knowthis, but I'm gonna I've got
certified in EMG and diagnosticultrasound.
SPEAKER_00 (17:54):
Oh, that's awesome.
That I was actually at anultrasound uh course then they
were teaching this.
SPEAKER_01 (18:00):
No way.
Can I ask who who did it?
SPEAKER_00 (18:03):
It was uh a local guy.
Um his name is Bart.
He's with Mountainland PhysicalTherapy, but he does it across
three states.
So I think Utah, Idaho, and uhMontana.
But he goes around and teachesPTs within those states for that
practice.
SPEAKER_01 (18:20):
It's it's really a powerful thing that we should be
leaning into.
The single smallest specialtywithin the APTA is
electrodiagnostics.
Um when I when I got certified,there was only 80 of us in the
country.
80.
And now there's upwards of threeto four hundred out of 300,000
physical therapists.
It's the most interesting, andwhat's funny about that,
(18:42):
reimbursement is so much higherfor that.
So what would happen is likesomeone would come to our clinic
with the same referral, neckpain.
And then if we felt that therewas a, you know, our exam tested
them with our normal proceduresas physical therapists, that
there was somethingreferral-based, like their hand
was tingling, some paresthesiasor whatever, we would do an EMG
(19:04):
right then.
We would do that.
And it here's what'sinteresting.
The studies on that have shownthat a neurologist, which is
typically where someone goes foran EMG, and just for for
patients that are listening,like an EMG is um, you know, we
do MRIs of like the spinal, thecentral nervous system, the
brain and the spinal cord.
You can't do an MRI forperipheral nerves because
(19:27):
there's so many and they're sosmall, but you can test them
with little needles andelectronics.
It's not a very pleasant test,but you can get fairly accurate.
But most people go toneurologists and neurologists
just pay lab techs to do it.
Our accuracy, I had oneorthopedic surgeon who's a good
friend of mine say, Yeah, theonly reason I send out for EMG
testing is because insurancesrequire it before I operate,
(19:48):
because most of them are quoteunquote crap, is what he called
it.
And then I started sending himphysical therapy tests, and the
studies show PTs, because we'remusculoskeletal experts, we are
the best people to do EMGs.
There's no our accuracy aboveanyone else is so much higher,
statistically speaking.
So when a patient comes in, ifwe could start utilizing EMGs
(20:10):
and diagnostic ultrasounds, wewill surpass orthopedic surgeons
because they they aren't doingthose in-house typically.
They will under certaincircumstances, but not EMG and
ultrasound, and we have theability, let's go skeletal-wise,
without those tests to be off by7%, 8%, whatever you said.
But if we started using those,first of all, I think we would
(20:32):
occur to ourselves more asdoctors.
But then the the patientsthemselves would be like, holy
moly, this is this is family,this is my direct care link.
You know, this is my doctor inmy community.
This is who I want to go to formuscle and bone.
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (20:48):
The thing is, like, if you have a diagnostic tool
like that, I have my testing,I'm already 76% accurate with my
testing, and then I peek underthe hood.
Yeah, I'm like, oh, I was right,right?
Without surgery, by the way.
SPEAKER_01 (21:02):
Yeah, without surgery.
SPEAKER_00 (21:03):
Matching card game with my daughter, right?
I'm like, I think it's that one.
Then I flip it over, I'm like,it was that one, right?
Essentially, that's what you'redoing, and that's why orthopedic
surgeons are that 7% better, isbecause they can peek under the
hood and verify that they wereaccurate.
And the more that you do that,the better you get at it.
But we're already there, and yougive us a tool now, we're gonna
(21:25):
take it to the next level.
So I'd love for it to see.
You know, we just had at ourAPTA Utah conference, this
musculoskeletal ultrasound andEMG, kind of like a crash course
in two days.
But it was super powerful to seewhere the profession's going
because we ultimately there's somuch value we can provide, and
(21:48):
that we just need to we need toown it and we need to go with
it, right?
Because we PTs don't even knowhow much you know and how much
value you're gonna create forthe world.
Like the world is shifting,people are wanting more natural
ways of healing, they're notwanting all these other things.
Our generation now is lookingtowards things that are not
(22:11):
gonna have long-term effect ontheir body.
So if PTs, if we're ready andwe're ready to stand, we're
gonna make a s a big impact onthe world.
We're gonna be the leadingexperts in muscular care,
skeletal care.
People want to come to us first.
SPEAKER_01 (22:26):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (22:27):
And the referrals are gonna completely flip.
SPEAKER_01 (22:38):
Because the vast majority, the vast, vast
majority of what people go, thestudies have shown billions upon
billions of dollars formusculoskeletal pain and
dysfunction.
They start coming to us and wecontrol the tide, of course,
that puts our profession at thetop of the food chain where it
was meant to be.
I get on stage when I speak atthese different conferences, as
you know, and I say from thebeginning that physical therapy,
(23:01):
physical therapy is theprofession that was born to be
at the top of the food chain formusculoskeletal disorders,
period.
And full stop.
And it's just you see theuncomfortableness in the room
sometimes, which is weird, butat the end of the day, I've
never seen it like that untilyou said it.
How if we're the onescontrolling the referrals, and
by the way, I see orthopedicsurgeons loving this.
(23:22):
I think they would just lovenothing but hire qualified
candidates for their service.
If instead of like filtering outa third or whatever number it is
of their inpatient visits to belike, well, you need to go to
PT.
What if 90% of them that came inor higher were ready for
surgery, done the PT, theirmuscles are ready to go, they're
gonna respond to the surgeryquicker.
SPEAKER_00 (23:44):
Not the ones that you're sending them back, right?
You imagine 80% of your day isjust redirecting people.
Oh you're only operating on 20%.
That's what a lot of thesesurgeons feel.
And the PTs are so worried aboutrocking the boat with these MDs
and surgeons, but they want thisas well.
They want help.
They're literally booked out forsix months.
(24:05):
Like that is a huge issue thatwe can help with.
But I agree with you.
PTs are the worst.
I've had more pushback fromphysical therapists in our state
than any other profession.
The most resistance that Iphysically get is from our own.
It drives me crazy because Iwant support.
I want people to uplift us.
(24:26):
I'm like, let's create socialmedia content, let's get
blasting this out to the state,like, let's market this.
And I get comments from peoplelike, oh, you're marketing
yourself or you're marketingyour company.
SPEAKER_01 (24:37):
I'm like, oh my god.
SPEAKER_00 (24:42):
Like, this is our duty to teach people, but it
drags me down, right?
And I'm a very energetic, veryoptimistic person.
But the minute I get thingsthrown at me from my very own
family, it's hard.
It's really challenging.
But I'm getting full supportfrom our medical doctors or NPs
or PAs.
They're like, keep going.
(25:02):
And then my own is like, stop.
Like, we're not ready for this.
Like, we're not ready for thismoment to shine.
I'm like, you were born for thismoment.
Literally, we're we are creatingthe pute future.
We're in a revolution, andyou're not ready to stand, you
know.
SPEAKER_01 (25:18):
It's it's such a I'm so inspired by what you're
saying, Brad.
And and it really is this thing.
I I still can't wrap my brainaround why physical therapists
are resistant to this idea whenthey're the ones who are
underpaid and overworked.
I don't get it.
I don't obviously they don't seethe link as clearly as you and I
do.
I don't know how they don't, butit's one of those where it's so
(25:40):
inspiring to think, what wecould become if we just unified,
no one's kicking back.
Like there's a little, likethere's that lady, for example,
but but the vast majority ofpeople outside the patients
don't even know that they wantthis.
The doctors already know thatthey want this in some cases.
We just have to choose it.
We just have to choose it.
(26:01):
It's so easy for us if we justall got on the same page and
said, yeah, let's become primarycare physicians when it comes to
musculoskeletal disorders.
And then we just started showingup like doctors in the
community, which by the way,we've already paid for.
We've got a student loan debt,we've got the educational
background to prove that we'rethat great.
We just need that support.
And it's, I don't think I wantto do an episode on the like the
(26:24):
history of why we think thisway.
All I care when the gate whenyou're knees deep in alligators,
as my grandma used to say, youdon't worry about who left the
gate open.
Like we're in this state nowwhere we we are, we have knees,
we're knees deep in alligators,but pioneers like you, Seth
Coulter, and others are arekicking the alligators out.
Like we're getting there, butdon't don't get angry at the guy
(26:47):
for kicking the alligator outbecause guess what?
He gets some attention.
He he he's like a hero for doingthat, and that promotes what
he's doing.
I I call that great, greatbusiness.
If we can do anything with ourcompanies that increase the
value of our clients, ourcompany, our community, and the
world at large, that's who weshould be praising.
(27:08):
We should be like, wow, that'sgreat.
Yeah, I do want to buy from thatguy.
SPEAKER_00 (27:11):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (27:12):
Absolutely because clearly they're not making money
on this on its own direct way.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (27:17):
Yeah, we should all be linking together and say,
dude, I love what you're doing.
Let's let's drive this togetheras a cohesive unit.
But, you know, in ourprofession, it's really
interesting because it kind ofdivides us sometimes.
And I think a lot of it goesdown to this like scarcity
versus abundant mindset that wegrew up in as physical
therapists.
(27:37):
You know, we we were ancillaryservices for so long.
We lived in the basement ofsurgeons' clinics, and that's
our history.
And then we became batch, youknow, associates, then
bachelor's, then masters, thendoctorate.
So a lot of it is growing intoour own skin, right?
I'm coming into it as you know,six years out of school, and I'm
(27:58):
a doctor, you know, I'm Ifinished my doctoral program,
you know.
I am a doctor of physicaltherapy, so I grew up in that.
Not everyone else did.
So I see it with a differentlens, and I see what we can
become.
I don't see as much as where wewere.
Because I don't believe we'reancillary services.
No, I believe that we are thetop level tier for
(28:20):
musculoskeletal care.
There's no one better attreating and managing
musculoskeletal conditions thanme.
And I'll hold that up, I willargue it, I will show it, I will
demonstrate it, you know, andwe'll consistently do that, you
know.
So it's it's so fun to chatabout it and it is, it is to get
people excited about it too,because a lot of it comes to
(28:42):
internal belief too.
SPEAKER_01 (28:44):
You know what's fun is um I did an episode in May
with Heidi Janenga, the founderand CEO of of WebPT, who's a
physical therapist herself.
I got to meet three of herstudents who had received
scholarships.
She has a uh charity called theRising Tide with a Z, where she
finds money and pairs it with uhup-and-coming physical
(29:05):
therapists who come fromunderdeveloped sectors of the
world.
So these are people who normallyfinancially couldn't afford to
go to PT school.
And what was so inspiring aboutit is that this new generation
is coming up with a completelydifferent mindset.
Now we're losing PTs becausesome people jump in, they're
like, oh, they hear the craponline about how horrible it is,
and they jump out.
(29:26):
We're losing 5,000, 5,000professionals above what we
should every year to peoplesaying, I'm not doing this
anymore.
And that's so sad because thedemand is going up and up and
up.
So, you know, supply-demandcharts means we're in a position
to where if we just unify, we'llnot just take charge of like the
position from a from aleadership position.
(29:48):
Well, we can demand morefinancially.
And so these students coming injust were like, yeah, I know, I
know that it's like skewed andall these things, but we love
this too much to back down.
And We're going to do whateverit takes and not just treat our
patients and help them savemoney, but for us to make the
money we deserve so that we canhelp more people.
I I was I got emotional oncamera and it was one of my top
(30:11):
episodes this year because therewas just this like wave of
positivity, just like you, Brad.
Like I consider you a leader ofthat generation.
Because, you know, it's justthat idea of I don't know why
there's all these alligators,but let's let's solve it.
Let's it's too wonderful.
It's too wonderful.
I'm just like you.
I'm that guy with the brokenarms and legs and my Connie
(30:32):
Clemens, and it's like who mytherapist who got me to stand
and walk for the first time.
That's what we do.
We teach people how to reclaimtheir life in a literal way.
There's all these products andservices like reclaim your life.
You know, take this medication,it'll give you energy.
It's like, no, we literallyteach people to walk.
There's no comparison in termsof what we get to do.
(30:53):
So I love your passion.
Thank you for doing that.
Congratulations to you andeveryone on the Utah Leadership
Board who made this thingpossible.
How are you guys now taking thisinformation and rolling it out
to the rest of the world?
I'm sure there's some plans ortalks.
SPEAKER_00 (31:09):
Yeah, there's so many people that were a part of
this bill.
You know, it started a year anda half ago, and we ended up
getting a whole, you know, ourexecutive director, Katie
Mansell, she's been the brainsof it.
unknown (31:22):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (31:23):
She got us a I think there's about 20 of us all in a
room and private practice ownersacross Utah.
And she said, we have not doneour part to support private
practices for the last decade.
I've been in this role for adecade, and I want to make you
guys the top priority.
Because you guys are the driversfor our profession.
(31:43):
I love academia, I love thesebig institutions, but if we're
really creating change in Utahand nationally, it's private
practice owners because this isyour guys' livelihood.
So she got us all in a room andshe asked us, what's the most
important thing to you?
And this is what we ended upagreeing upon is this primary
care bill.
Um, but to go back to yourquestion, like what are we doing
(32:05):
now to share with the world?
Um, so yeah at PPS, you know,American Physical Therapy
Association private practicesections meeting, the national
leaders have asked a few of usfrom the board to attend, and
they're gonna bring us up onstage and announce to the whole
nation and the private practiceworld about this bill.
(32:26):
We're working with other states.
So there's four other states inthe nation working on the same
bill right now.
So our our director is reachingout to other directors in
different states because as weget critical mass, critical mass
is past the 50% mark.
50% of 51% of states across thenation get the same bill to
(32:47):
pass, that's when Medicare willrecognize us as primary care as
well.
And we can have thoseconversations.
But until we get that tippingpoint, it's just individual
states.
And the goal is to show extremevalue.
We don't want to just be primarycare and not act as primary
care.
SPEAKER_01 (33:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (33:06):
Physical therapists need to understand what it truly
means to be primary care.
That you're the entry point,that doesn't mean you're silo
care.
That doesn't mean you're takingcare of every single condition
on the market and neverutilizing your team.
You have to know when and who torefer out.
You have to know when to orderimaging, you gotta make good
decisions early on.
(33:27):
You know, you gotta be catchingcancer, like all these things,
right?
I can't tell you how many timesfive times I've caught cancer in
my early career.
I'm only six years.
SPEAKER_01 (33:37):
Really?
SPEAKER_00 (33:38):
Yeah, and that's because I'm ordering imaging.
I know when to order imaging.
I make good decisions when I'mfive, six minutes, six visits
in.
I don't wait 20 visits justhoping that things are gonna get
better.
If they're not naturallyprogressing as a typical linear,
you know, injuries do this,right?
They get a little better, but inoverall, as you're progressing
(34:01):
in injury in therapy, it shouldhave a linear progression.
And if it's not, we got to makedecisions quicker and and uh you
know make good decisions earlyon.
But it it's it's incredible.
If we are truly primary careproviders and we utilize our
resources, we know ourcommunity, you gotta know who
(34:21):
the surgeon is in your town, yougotta have his contact
information, you gotta know thePA, the NP.
Like, who are your players?
You're essentially thequarterback, right?
You're the person that's justkind of early on making
decisions, but that doesn't meanyou're the coach.
SPEAKER_01 (34:38):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (34:38):
You gotta know who to punt to or who to pass to,
right?
You gotta make those earlydecisions for the best care of
the patient, you know.
So there's so many things thatwe're doing now, and we're we
ended up getting Justin Moore.
We called up Justin Moore, he'sthe NCAA national president, and
he is in full support of whatwe're doing, and he's working on
(34:59):
a grant for Utah right now tosupport us financially to be
able to push some additionalbills.
Um, and then we got MikeHorsfield over at PPS.
We're gonna be meeting up withhim to get some matching grant
money to potentially get somefunding to support everything
that we're doing because we wantall of Utah to know.
(35:19):
We don't want this to just bepassing the bill and no one
knows about it.
We want to like get this messageacross Utah, showing the value
in it, show them the researchbehind it, and get people to
line up and say, this is thetipping point.
Like, is we get critical mass inUtah to truly understand our
value and what we can providethem?
(35:41):
And then the harder part isgetting the PTs to deliver it.
SPEAKER_01 (35:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (35:47):
Because I believe it, right?
I believe I can do it, I believeI've trained my team to do it.
But can every physical therapistin Utah double down on their con
ed, on their continuededucation, that they can make
good decisions early on well,right?
Getting everyone to believe thatthey are primary care role and
to act in that way, to introducethemselves as a doctor of
(36:11):
physical therapy rather thansome ancillary basement service
that's just you know required bya surgeon before surgery.
There's so many things that uhwe're working on, we're going
into universities, so I just gotdone uh presenting at a
university two weeks ago whereI'm teaching people about
primary care because I want toteach the babies.
SPEAKER_01 (36:32):
Yeah, baby.
SPEAKER_00 (36:33):
We're gonna change the world, let's teach the
rising generation because I had60 DPT students, I think second
years, and they were riled upabout this.
They're so excited.
And yeah, so we're working withuniversities to teach them, and
obviously teaching students inour clinic, but there's a lot of
(36:53):
fun stuff that we're doing.
We're kind of working atmultiple angles here.
SPEAKER_01 (36:56):
Yeah, it's funny because as you mentioned this,
you know, I I used to before mycurrent company started growing,
I used to do a lot of consultingfor people to how to recruit.
And um, one of the biggestthings I would teach them, and
it was this like shift inmindset from being in scarcity
versus abundance, was servethem, serve the rising
(37:16):
generation, be in front of themwith your rally cry of whatever
you're passionate about.
And I would argue there'snothing more amazing or
passionate than what you'resaying to go in there and talk
about how we're gonna change theprofession.
And that is how you get trust,and now people hire.
I used to have a bench of peoplewhen it was harder for others to
recruit because I was teachingentrepreneurship and leadership.
(37:38):
I wasn't changing the professionthe way that you are.
And the great thing is there isa scarcity in in when you look
at how many jobs there areversus how many PTs coming there
are, but there is so muchopportunity for whoever is going
to not like just resist, butlike be openly accepting and and
even stand in front and say,let's change it together.
(38:01):
Those PTs will never have a hardtime recruiting.
And it's not because that's notagain to the counter-argument of
people who are like, oh, you'redoing it for that.
It's like, no, that's just it.
The purpose is what drives it,it's the product later that
comes in tail.
And so, yeah, greater profitshappen, greater recruiting
happens, greater all the thingsbecause we're fighting for the
(38:22):
greater good of all.
People think with scarcity thatthere's limited resources,
there's so much abundance.
There's enough, there's a wayfor every PT practice in the
world, and then some to haveplenty of PT students, but it
comes from us shifting themindset to where we get more
people wanting to join becausewe're out there changing the
industry.
So I just want to point thatout.
(38:42):
I love how like the rising tideis leadership.
You said something I gotta digon, Brad.
You said, you know, we'rechanging the minds of the
babies, the up and comingregeneration.
You said before that you do itin your own practice.
I almost feel like you know,that phrase of like we have to
change the world within our ownhomes.
Like, how are you doing that atfoundation physical therapy?
(39:05):
How are you helping your teammembers like understand all of
these things and get on boardwith them?
SPEAKER_00 (39:12):
That is a great question.
There's multiple facets, as youknow.
Um, the biggest one that wefocus on this year is making
sure our orientation,onboarding, and mentorship
experience is just through theroof.
That they know our values likethe back of their hand, they
know what we're all about, theyknow our brand, they know our
(39:34):
heart, why we exist in the firstplace, they know our purpose.
But it's deeply ingrained s intheir heart, so they make
decisions with the values at theforefront of their mind, not as,
oh yeah, just on the wall in thewaiting room.
It's like, no, we we teach thesevalues because they're gonna be
a compass to you, they're gonnahelp you navigate challenging
(39:58):
situations and they're gonnahelp you make the right decision
because every decision you face,you can't have a written script
for.
But if I teach you a value, thevalue of always progressing,
right?
How is that gonna guide yourdecision when you're mapping out
your continued education plan?
(40:18):
So one thing that we do with weour value is to always progress.
And so we created uh we call itan unlimited con ed budget.
It's is it unlimited to acertain extent, right?
But we have them map out theirwhole year.
Show me your whole year con edplan.
I want to see how you structureit, I want to see the sequence.
(40:41):
Here's my suggested sequence ofhow you build upon it.
So we we give that to them, andthen we have them map out the
whole year.
And then, all right, let'sbudget it.
So it's it's not like it'scompletely unlimited, it's not
like we just have unlimitedmoney, right?
We're wise in how we spend that,but we're very particular on how
we coach our therapists on theircontinued education.
(41:04):
We want to know what Kool-Aidthey're drinking from and why.
You know, and what I meanKool-Aid is like what who are
you learning from?
Who do we suggest from as acompany?
Because these new grads come outand they're like, I want to get
dry-nealing certified, I want todo the KT tape course, I want to
do like all these passivethings, which are great, but
let's have you master thefoundational skills of how to
(41:25):
load a tendon, how to you knowprogress a sequence of exercise.
Let's get the foundation setbefore we build the home, right?
So we really, it's not we we areit's a balance of not
controlling, but teaching,right?
And and coaching and showingthem the way rather than saying
(41:45):
being a dictator.
So we're more of a guide throughthis process than a dictator.
Because I'm saying this is thatcould be a way, but here is a a
better way in my eyes, right?
And you can test it, you can tryit, but it's been tried and
true.
Yeah, and so that's one thingthat we do.
We also talk about uh differentgrowth models, so we have
(42:07):
different pathways in whichpeople can grow.
So, you know, just a therapist,if they want to be a master
clinician, or if they want to bea world-class clinician, we have
certain criteria for each one ofthose things, or they want to be
a clinic director or anoperations director.
So there's different pathways inwhich they can go, and sometimes
they can do most of themsimultaneously, they can follow
two paths at the same time.
(42:28):
You know, I got one clinicianthat he's a he's a mentor for a
new therapist and workingtowards being a clinical
instructor, but he also isworking towards being a clinic
director.
So, but we create these pathwaysfor all different all of our
positions because I worked in ahospital, I just felt like I hit
the ceiling.
I could never grow.
(42:48):
I was always just a therapist.
SPEAKER_01 (42:51):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (42:52):
I had no supervisor, I had no con ed plan, I had no
growth models, I had noopportunities to move up in
leadership, and I just thought,I'm like, where am I going with
my career?
And so that's why we createdthese growth plans.
And I've had a lot of mentorshipon how to do this from different
people, but it's been the mostpowerful thing that I've done in
(43:14):
my organization.
When people can see that theyhave opportunities to become the
next level, it's not likethey're going up in tiers, it's
that they're going up inprogression in their life,
they're taking on differentresponsibility that they're most
passionate and proficient in.
You know?
So it's so fun to go into thoseareas.
We have profit share programsfor every position.
(43:37):
Even our aides have profit shareprograms.
Um, so they know how they'regetting a piece of the pie, too,
right?
We and it's it's always awin-win.
It's not like they get a profitshare and it takes from someone
else.
It's that if the therapist isgetting a profit share because
of their production, the frontoffice coordinator is as well,
and the aide is as well.
(43:58):
And we just we power to powerwith everyone.
And it's so great because theyall it's this lateral
management, they manage eachother, not the top-down
approach, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (44:11):
Yeah, that's so cool.
I you know, it LinkedIn says 88%of people leave a company
because they don't see a futurein it.
And what you do is create thesefutures for them.
And that I think opens the doorfor them to understand when you
start talking about the futureof the industry, why it matters
to them.
It's kind of like I I believe abig part of why we're in the
(44:33):
position we're in is that we asleaders have been so subdued
from the pressures andsuppression of low reimbursement
and not having enough time thatwe don't even know if we're
coming or going.
That's why we do stupid thingslike resist guys who are
breaking free.
And I'm willing to bet a lot ofthat's just jealousy.
It's like, well, where's thisguy get to get all this
(44:53):
business?
He's doing it for self-servingbecause I care about my
patients.
No, you don't know.
You just don't know what I'm notangry.
I'm just saying they don't knowwhat they don't know because I
used to be that guy.
So for you, you do that withyour people.
My question to you is what comesfirst, or does it all go
together?
The the investment in the teammember and then the realization
(45:13):
of how we need to stand as anindustry, or do they come to you
because they're passionate aboutwhat you're doing for the
industry and then just learn andgrow from there?
Or is it a combination of thosethings?
SPEAKER_00 (45:23):
You know, I'd say it's a combination.
Ultimately, I was tellingtalking to our marketing team
who was who's assisting withrecruiting.
unknown (45:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (45:31):
And ultimately, that's marketing, right?
SPEAKER_01 (45:33):
A hundred percent.
SPEAKER_00 (45:34):
But yes, working on recruiting, and I I told them, I
said, I want to be soridiculously attractive as a
group that we don't ever have toplace an ad.
Like, people are naturally drawnto us.
And I can't tell you how manytimes we've hired a patient that
is a front office coordinator.
I have like five of my oldpatients that are now my team
(45:58):
members, right?
Because they loved it so muchand it changed their lives so
much.
And you know who the bestadvocate for PT is?
It's those people that werepatients.
SPEAKER_01 (46:09):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (46:10):
I was treated by Brad, and it changed my life.
And I know when it gets hard andyou don't want to do your
exercises, it is the best thingthat you can do.
That's my front officecoordinator on the phone, or my
office manager, right?
And my my personnel director wasa patient, right?
She just bends over backwards,advocating for patients and for
(46:33):
team members, right?
She's creating a teamexperience.
Yeah, we had we did our NPS forour employees.
It was a 9.2 rating out of 10.
SPEAKER_01 (46:43):
Let's go.
SPEAKER_00 (46:44):
Thrilled to work here, right?
And to work with us.
It's because of the experiencewe're creating for them.
And we put so much thought andintention into every single
piece.
It just becomes so fun becauseyou're literally just creating
jobs for people that they love,you know.
But yes, there are thingshappening simultaneously, but I
wanted to be so attractive as acompany that people just want,
(47:08):
they walk to us because they'relike, You are doing amazing
things.
I want to come work with you.
What do I have to do to workwith you, right?
And we create this funnel ofstudents that are just like I I
went to a career fair justbarely this last week at the
University of Utah talking tostudents, and uh it's it's so
(47:28):
fun because they're so young andthey're like, I'm coming to your
clinic to do an internship.
I'm like, that's awesome.
And I've never met them before,right?
Like, I saw you on Instagram orI saw your podcast.
I love what you came and spoketo our class this one time, and
then we get these students, andwe had seven full-time students
last year, and we picked two.
(47:48):
We took the two best, right?
That aligned with our mission,our values, and our purpose.
And those two therapists arerock stars, right?
But they've they've worked withus, they've learned our systems,
they are like their hearts init.
One of them was I student, hewill bend over backwards, he'll
take a bullet for the team.
Like, it is just it, you know,when you do those things, you
(48:12):
talked about serving, yeah,right?
That's marketing.
Figure out how you serve people,right?
If you want to create a greatrecruiting funnel, how just go
serve them.
SPEAKER_01 (48:24):
Serve better and harder and more authentically
than anyone else, and therecruiting will take care of
itself.
I think people forget that theythink of all people as the same.
We make the same mistake withhiring that the industry that
the population does withphysical therapy.
We get commoditized, meaning,oh, I tried physical therapy.
(48:45):
Really?
Have you also tried dentistry?
Have you tried orthopedic?
No one does that except forphysical therapy because of how
we have commoditized ourselvesand we do it with the when we
hire.
It's like, oh, I just need aphysical therapist.
No, you don't.
Right.
You need the right human beingwho also has a degree to be your
(49:07):
therapist.
And so when we stop thinkingscarcity, we start thinking
abundantly, it's like, well, Ican't, I can't serve everyone.
I can help everybody, but I canonly go a mile deep or serve so
many people.
So who of the next generationcan I help the most?
And that was me in recruiting.
I wanted to help entrepreneurslike me who really cared about
(49:29):
owning their own thing one day,which is counterintuitive.
Why would you hire someone who'sgonna go up against you?
Well, that's scarcity mindsetagain.
I hired people who wanted tolearn from me because I was
gonna teach them everything Iknew about entrepreneurship.
And those are guys like yourpartner, Jared Egan, who wanted
to own his own thing one day.
And when we before I sold mypractice, he told me, He's like,
(49:50):
I'm never gonna, I never want toopen my own thing.
I just want to work togetherwith you forever because there's
not not everyone's a Jared Egan.
They're very few and farbetween.
The two that you hired are veryfew and far between, the guys
that take a bullet for the team.
Yeah, and so as we serve harderand deeper, we attract the best
of the best.
And those are the game changers,the rainmakers, the ones that
(50:10):
make everything possible for usto achieve the bigger dream.
But the dream can't be ours.
It's gotta be ours.
It can't be ours personally,it's gotta be ours collectively.
What can we do for the industryto make a change?
And when we start with thatdream and pronounce it, we
attract those people.
And then while everyone else isfighting over the rest of the
individuals with variousalignment and talent and
(50:32):
capability, the very select feware working with the best of the
best.
And so when we I I love the ideaof how thinking abundantly isn't
just right for some of us, it'sactually there's enough space
for everyone in the industry tothink that way because we would
just grow the pie instead offighting over the the scraps
that we perceive that is left.
SPEAKER_00 (50:50):
Absolutely.
Yeah, I totally agree.
And it's you know, it's it's sofun.
The the book The Go Giver, I'msure you've read.
Yeah, it's it's all about this,right?
Like, how do you solve people'sproblems?
How do you truly authenticallyserve people in the most
authentic way of who you are,right?
And my authentic way is just togo and teach.
(51:13):
I love teaching, I loveexplaining things that make
sense in my head.
I love advocating for ourprofession, I love having a
voice, you know.
I think you're probably cut fromthe same cloth as me.
You've probably felt suppressedas a child, and that's why you
have such a strong voice now.
You know, there you you speakfor other people, you advocate
(51:35):
for other people.
And you know, I just finished mystrategic plan for next year and
presented it to our team.
We're hiring seven therapistsnext year.
SPEAKER_01 (51:42):
Let's go.
SPEAKER_00 (51:43):
And um, we already have eight therapists in the
docket that we're working oncreating relationships with,
consistently serving, right?
Because if and when, right, andthat strategy actually
deliberately happens, you know,if things will change, sure,
they'll merge along the way.
But we have all these peoplethat are already attracted to
(52:05):
us, they already want to comework with us, and we're just
saying, we're ready, let's bringyou on, you know, and this is
the time frame.
So we're already we alreadymapped out when people are
graduating, when they want tojoin our team, and we we gotta
get our team ready for that.
We gotta, and the beauty is youbring on seven new therapists,
what happens to your currenttherapists?
(52:27):
Yeah, they move into otherleadership positions where
they're mentoring these youngerones, so it's such a beautiful
thing because you have thesegrowth models internally where
people are growing and they getmore opportunity, and then you
bring on these young people thatare just super attracted to the
company and they're superexcited for the profession, and
it just feeds itself.
But it all starts with servingpeople, just serve them and
(52:51):
serve them well, serve themdeeply, authentically, and in
such a caring way, and iteverything else takes care of
itself.
SPEAKER_01 (52:59):
Amen.
I um think of Bob Herman, RobertHerman, who owns the largest
pediatric company in thecountry.
He's in Arizona.
I have the privilege of hearinghim speak, and a lot of what you
said is how he talks.
And it's this idea of like youget momentum when you have the
right alignment with purpose andvalues.
And there's so many people whoare listening to this episode
(53:19):
right now who are possiblyfeeling a little less than as
they're hearing this.
And I want to speak directly tothe PTOT SLP leader who or
private practice leader whofeels like, yeah, Brad, and
maybe we'll have it figured out.
I never can get there.
I get what they're saying, butI'm um, that's not me.
(53:40):
And I would call them out veryloudly because what I this is
true, almost, and the onlyreason I don't say every single
one is because it's very rare.
The vast majority of PT ownersthat I've met, OT SLP owners
I've ever met, they're actuallyborn to do this.
That's why they chose what theydid.
They chose this because of theirbig heart.
(54:01):
So I always say if you're a PTOT SLP owner that gets treats
from your patients, like theybring you cookies and you know
you can make it rain with loveand improvement, then you were
born to be the type of leaderthat Brad is.
You just don't understand how todo it.
Like it hasn't occurred to youthat what you're doing for that
patient and the way you thinkabout money is actually
(54:23):
transferable to how you growyour business.
Because, you know, part of thereason we're in the position
we're in is because we don'treally think enough about money
when we're treating ourpatients.
And that there's a degree ofthat that's useful, meaning
we're serving so much that we'renot like, you know, charging
every second of our time in theway that we really should be if
we're being accountable.
So if what if we served openlyto the next generation?
(54:45):
What if we showed up as atherapist treating the next
generation of patients,assessing their pain points,
analyzing their limitations,implementing plans of care that
we will be in terms of educationand knowledge, and then support
them along their way?
Well, that right there is ablueprint for the most powerful
(55:05):
recruiting strategy of all time.
If we can just present it inthat way.
So everyone who's listeningwho's like, that I don't think I
could ever be like a Brad, noman, like you are your version
of that.
You just haven't experienced ityet.
And the more and the reason Bradand I want you to get there is
because if you can get therementally, you can join us in
(55:28):
that movement of changing theprofession.
Because at the end of the day,if we can free up the owners and
get paid what we're worth, we'regonna make the patient care
experience so awesome that weare gonna net save billions of
dollars, not to mentioncountless hours of suffering for
people who needlessly go throughopioid addiction, needless
(55:50):
surgeries, and so on.
We can unite in a way that'sgoing to move the tide of health
care globally.
So it's not just nice for you tomake profits, listeners.
It's not a good thing for you tomake money.
It's essential that you get thetime and money for the value you
provide so that we allcollectively can make tomorrow
(56:12):
what it was meant to be forhealthcare.
SPEAKER_00 (56:14):
Amen to that, Will.
I I would add that it's ourmoral duty to do that.
Like there's so much that we canprovide that can change people's
lives, that can reduce sufferingin the world, that can literally
take people from where they areand get them to live the life
(56:35):
they always wanted.
And we have, we were born forthis.
You know, it was just a day ortwo ago, you know, it seems,
that I felt the same way of whatyou're describing.
I appreciate the complimentsthere.
Um, but I felt like I didn'thave a voice and you know, I
didn't wasn't gonna make a lotof change in the world.
(56:55):
But then I realized if I'm notgonna do it, who is?
Like I have this knowledge.
Am I gonna just sit on it or amI actually gonna go share it
with the world?
So many people don't know whatwe know, and if we share it, it
can literally save lives.
And I tell you know our teamthat frequently like we
(57:18):
literally save lives.
I can't tell many patients thathave told me that I was getting
close to taking my own lifebecause of the physical, mental
suffering that I was in.
And I'm so grateful for what youhave done to give me my life
back.
But just think about thosepeople as you are thinking about
(57:39):
your voice.
You know think about how manypeople are suffering.
Who speaks for them, whoadvocates for them?
I think both me and you canagree, like we're we're
advocating for our old selves.
Right?
The the little boy that wassuffering that didn't get the
care that they deserved, or youknow, had the give was given
(58:02):
their life back when it wastaken away by some accident, and
we got a second chance.
And now we get to go speak forall those people on the value
that we could create, and thatyou don't have to be reliant
upon all these other things thatmay or may not create that value
for your life, but we can reallychange lives with just the
(58:22):
simple physical therapytechniques that we know.
SPEAKER_01 (58:25):
Yeah, because when we change people physically,
temporally, we can move thempermanently, emotionally, and
spiritually.
And that's why you and I decidedto join this industry.
It's what everyone knows deepdown, even if they can't
articulate it as to why we dowhat we do.
So, man, Brad, it's beenphenomenal having you on the
show.
(58:46):
People are gonna want to get reare gonna want to reach out to
you.
Number one, how how do theyadvocate they're gonna want to
reach out to you?
People are gonna want to workwith you are gonna reach out to
you.
Patients are listening, that'sgoing, where do I get care from
foundation physical therapy?
And again, that's not why we didthe show, but I also know that's
exactly what's gonna happen.
How do they get a hold of you?
SPEAKER_00 (59:04):
Yeah, so we uh we have all social media accounts.
Our our the podcast is calledthe Healthcare Revolution, and
um our company's FoundationPhysical Therapy, and it's just
uh foundationPTUTA.com.
You can message us there, youcan message us on Instagram, um,
my emails brad at foundationptutah.com.
You can email me.
(59:25):
But I want this this professionto just I I want to use the term
blow up because that that itblow up in such a good way.
Like I want it to go across theworld of the value.
I want to be the the primaryrole for pain and injury.
Like there's no one that shouldbe at the front lines more than
us.
And I will I will help anyone inour profession or any other
(59:49):
profession to succeed because Iwant all of us to succeed and
really to create that value forthe world.
SPEAKER_01 (59:56):
Thank you, Brad.
Such a pleasure to get to bewith you again.
Thanks for being on the show.
SPEAKER_00 (01:00:00):
Likewise well, thanks so much for having me.
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