Are you a physical therapist grappling with burnout or contemplating the future of the profession? This episode of the Will Power Podcast offers a powerful, hopeful perspective! Join us for an incredibly candid and inspiring conversation with Dr. Heidi Jannenga, co-founder of WebPT and the visionary behind the Rizing Tide Foundation together with her students Davion Enders-Jones and Christy Effendie-Peterson, DPT.
In this deep dive, we explore:
- Discover why, despite challenges like return on investment, PT remains "one of the top ten happiest careers." Hear how defining your personal "why" – whether inspired by a transformative patient experience (like Davian's football injury or Heidi's ACL rehab) or a desire for one-on-one impact (like Christy's shift from college athletics) – is the ultimate defense against burnout.
- Learn how innovative practices are combating burnout and fostering retention by incorporating community involvement and paid outreach into their PTs' roles, allowing for a richer, more meaningful career.
- A crucial discussion on changing the narrative of the profession. Dr. Heidi, Christy and Davion emphasize "knowing our worth" as specialists in musculoskeletal health, advocating for direct access, and leveraging modern platforms like social media to ensure the community recognizes PTs as "the true doctors in the community."
- The mission of the Rizing Tide Foundation – providing substantial scholarships (up to $14,000/year for DPT, $10,000 for residency) to underrepresented students like Davian and Christy. Hear their emotional, firsthand accounts of how these scholarships alleviate financial burdens and provide a vital community, mentorship, and even future employment opportunities.
This episode highlights that while challenges exist, the future of PT is incredibly bright, especially with a "younger, more powerful generation" rising. It's a call to action for the entire industry to "gather and realize our power as experienced owners and leaders" to break through barriers together.
Connect with Dr. Heidi Jannenga and Rizing Tide Foundation: Learn more about their scholarship programs and how you can support or get involved: rizingtide.com
Virtual Rockstars specialize in helping support or replace all non-clinical roles.
Learn how a Virtual Rockstar can help scale your physical therapy practice.
Subscribe here to our completely free Stress-Free PT Newsletter for your weekly dose of joy.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Thank you for tuning in to the Willpower Podcast.
This episode might be the mostimportant episode that we
listened to this year and I'mnot being dramatic or
overselling this thing, I juststopped recording it and the
three guests I hadsimultaneously is Davion
Enders-Jones, a third yearphysical therapy student in
Texas, christy FND-Peterson,who's been out of school for
(00:32):
three years working inCalifornia, and Heidi Janenga,
who needs no introduction.
The three of these individualscame together to talk about the
future of physical therapy, whywe believe it's bright and I, as
you're listening to thisepisode, you will actually
understand why it's going to bebetter.
It's been a transformativeepisode.
(00:53):
As we talked about the purposeof why we became physical
therapists, it transitions intothe suppression that we
experience around reimbursementand high cost of education and
all these things that are, insome ways, demoralizing the
industry.
But then the answer to all ofthis comes together in such a
beautiful, inspiring way.
There is no way we could havescripted this.
(01:15):
So please listen through theentire episode.
I promise you you'll think ofthings completely different,
you'll be way more inspired andyou will leave empowered to
start doing actionable thingsthat will change the profession
and your life as well asimpacting others.
Enjoy the show.
Man Heidi, it is so great tohave you on the show with two
(01:36):
amazing physical therapists thatI can't wait to dive into
Today's episode.
As you know, we're talkingabout the future of our industry
at large and what a greatprivilege it is to have you on
the show to talk about that.
You've had such a journey inthis industry.
So let's just kick it off withsomething really light and easy.
Where do you see the future ofour industry going in physical
(01:57):
therapy?
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Well, first of all, will, thank you so much for
having me and these amazingstudents today.
Yeah, starting off light thefuture of PT, Well, I think it's
evolving rapidly.
I think that we're kind of at,you know, a crux of lots of
things coming together, whetherit's the addition of technology
(02:24):
in terms of AI we have a newgeneration coming in with
changing expectations.
Whether we talk about it fromthe employee side or we talk
about it from the patientexpectation side, insurances are
getting tighter and tighter interms of what they are looking
(02:46):
for for payments, whether it'sthe, the number of visits that
they're willing to approve.
We haven't quite got there interms of managed care yet or
value-based care and with theactual outcomes having an effect
on payment.
But you know we see that coming, hopefully sooner than later.
(03:07):
I know we've been talking aboutit in our industry for a really
long time.
I think there's always also abig growing focus on the more
holistic side and preventativecare, which is also fantastic,
and then I mean I would talkabout this for the whole show
but I think probably the thenewer practice models that have
(03:30):
started to evolve with increasein cash based services.
You know more of this conciergestyle of PT and you know just
in general if we're talkingabout outpatient.
But we love the fact that youknow, in our profession there
are so many different ways thatphysical therapists can add
(03:52):
value to and for patient care.
Obviously, today we're lookingat more of the hybrid model as
the future, I think.
In my opinion, Sure.
To balance the expectations ofwhat patients and also the
future employees and how theythink about working with
(04:14):
patients.
I think that's where we'regoing.
So it's a lot of change.
I think it's slowly becomingmore adopted and we'll see sort
of where the puck lands.
We've all gone through it.
I know I've been in thisindustry for gosh going on 30
years and seen a lot of changefrom when I graduated PT school
(04:35):
to where we are today.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Man, you said it best at the end.
It's changed since we startedPT school.
My word, like I think back onthose early days of, like you
know, soap notes, being patient,tolerated treatment Well, see
plan.
For you know, like the dailynote was this big, I don't think
it was even encouraged to do itback then, but it was common.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
And now you're writing it with pen and paper.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
We were like literally penning each visit,
talking to people and checkingboxes for units to build.
Yeah, it's changed.
It has changed and I love.
But here's the thing I heard inyour voice, heidi, was you
sound optimistic about things.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
I am very optimistic about things.
I think that there's a lot ofdoom and gloom happening, just
especially on the payment side,which you know for sure.
Stress causes evolution, right?
Stress causes the need forchange and as long as we're
willing to embrace it and don'tget stuck in our ways of which
this is the way we've alwaysdone it if we're willing to
(05:35):
really embrace it and I thinkthe way that our industry is
structured, entrepreneurship ispart of who we are as providers
I think that that innovation isgoing to come and we're going to
continue to grow our value andhave more access to even more
(05:57):
patients, as people understandmore of what we do and we still
are the low cost, high valueprovider, uh, and I think
there's just a lot moreopportunity for us to to embrace
.
I will say you've heard me talkabout the 90 right 90 of
patients who could, um, you know, come into pt and and receive
(06:20):
value from pt.
Uh, 90 of them are not gettingto us, right?
so so we've only been seeing 10%of the population that could
actually benefit from PT.
That number has changed overthe last 10 years by a couple of
percentage points.
It's not at a great timebecause of the PT shortage,
right?
So we have a volume of patients, but not enough people to serve
(06:42):
them, and so that's why I thinkthe future is bright in terms
of, you know, seeing these twoamazing individuals that we have
with us today, with Christy andDavion, who understand and are
willing and wanting to embracethose communities and other
people that perhaps weren'thaving access to PT, that are
going to now be able to do that.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Yeah, and that's such a great segue because we were
talking about how wonderfullybright the future is of our
industry.
I always tell people like thisguys I say that this is the best
time and people, when I'm onstages, I'm talking like that
and people just look at me likeI'm crazy and I go.
But here's why you know whenwas the best time to buy real
estate?
In the early 2000s, it was 2008and 2009.
(07:27):
And people were just like thisis the worst time.
It's because we have gonethrough so much painful
transition, as Heidi pointed out, that now the outlook is super
positive.
But here's where I get concernedand I'm so glad that we have
Christy and Davion on the showis that I am super concerned
about the next generation.
We had a recent year where morepeople left the industry than
(07:48):
joined the industry, and so I'mso honored to have a current
student and a recent new gradwithin the last three years to
be on the show as we talk aboutwhat it was like for you to make
this decision.
So when?
Let me ask I'm going to startwith Davion, davion did you,
when you decided to become aphysical therapist, were you
(08:09):
aware of some of thesechallenges in the industry.
And then I'll ask Christy thesame question.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, I always kind of heardit and you know, when you're a
tech or a patient, at times youwould kind of hear the jokes or
the rumblings of how we're notquote-unquote doctors or, you
know, we're not looked at thesame way.
I mean, I'd always heard it,but I don't know, I've always
been somebody that's like I wantto leave whatever I found
(08:36):
better than I found it for thenext generation.
So you know, hearing thosethings it never really bothered
me too too much.
I always was just like, well,why is that?
I always ask the why, and thenI want to go down the rabbit
hole of, well, how do we startsolving that?
How do we start commanding alittle bit more respect or, you
know start, you know marketingourselves a little bit better
and putting physical therapy ona brighter map.
(08:57):
So I always did kind of hear it, but it never, it just never
really bothered me because I wasalways kind of always had the
mindset of, uh, let's justadvance this thing then.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Wow, that's inspiring .
Christy, same question to youLike were you aware when you
were going through school?
You've been out of school nowfor three years.
So when you were going throughschool, like, was your class
aware of some of thesechallenges?
And like were there were thereany rumblings of people saying I
got to get out of here?
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Oh, totally.
I think too like I went to aprivate school in California for
PT school and so there's a lotof talks too on like return on
investment right.
So we invest a lot of moneyinto our tuition, into our
education, living in Californiato then especially in the
private practice space andoutpatient not always seeing
that match right Of return oninvestment and how much you're
making an annual income.
And so I think that's where alot of PTs, especially new grads
(09:49):
over the last couple of yearsthat I've really seen really
grumble, had a couple ofclassmates even leave and kind
of pivot into other medicalspaces or even like medical
device sales or anything likethat consulting, because of some
of that return of investmentthat they wanted to see increase
.
But I think the thing thatalways challenged me was seeing
(10:10):
a lot of the people that Iworked with, having gone through
the process of being a patient,an intern, a student, is how
happy all the PTs that I workedwith were, and that doesn't say
that there wasn't a lot ofchallenges, it wasn't to say
that they weren't tired or evenwent through seasons of burnout,
but one of my mentors alwayschallenged me and saying she
goes.
(10:30):
I've been in this profession forseveral decades, and she goes
PT continues to be ranked as oneof the top 10 happiest careers.
And so why is that?
Why is that?
That, even though the return oninvestment isn't necessarily as
high as maybe we would like itto be, especially for our newer
generation of graduates, butwe're still seeing this high
level of overall enjoyment inthe career and seeing how our
(10:54):
employers, how my employer, doesit to try to mitigate some of
that burnout, how to try toimprove employee satisfaction.
Um, so that way we do want tostay in this career long-term,
rather than the turnover rate ofearly in the first three to
five years.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Yeah, I have to say to both Davion and Christy
already I feel even better aboutthe future of our industry.
What in the like both of youguys are telling me you're
completely aware of all thesechallenges.
You were aware of the Facebookgroups that have that we won't
mention by name, that talkedhorribly about the industry.
And then you guys like we'renow we're going to.
In Davion's case it was likewell, let's just make it better.
(11:32):
And in Christie's case, she didresearch, like a good provider
would, and discovered thatpeople were enjoying it in the
in despite of that and chose tomove forward anyway.
That is so inspiring to me andI want to thank you guys both
especially for being on today'sshow as we dig into this future
of physical therapy and what itis that we're going to be
accomplishing together.
So, christy, I'm going tocontinue with you a little bit.
(11:55):
In your case, as you'recurrently working, how are you
dealing with those stresses?
Burnout is the big four-letterword Like how, now that you've
been out in the field, how areyou dealing with that stuff?
Speaker 4 (12:09):
Yeah, good question.
I think, foundationally, whenyou're like looking at a career
and for me one of the reasonswhy I decided to go into PT is
it met the triangle of what Iwas looking for.
So the triangle between, likewhat my skills were, um, between
being more of a people personand having some of those soft
skills for a lot of one-on-onetime with people, and,
educationally, my background inphysiology, but then also my
(12:32):
passions, specifically right nowwith, like, athletes and sports
.
I knew that was a passion ofmine, I knew why I wanted to do
that, and then also myexperience having worked in
college athletics prior to PTschool.
I think finding a career and aprofession within that triangle
was really key to going, beingable to go back to my why right,
and so when I am in thosephases of burnout hey, why am I,
(12:54):
what is my why, and can I goback to that Is?
Pt continued to be in thattriangle and so I think that,
for one, helps as just afoundational aspect, I think.
Secondly, our clinic does areally good job of outside of
traditional clinic care, and wedo see a lot of clinic care is.
Each one of our PTs is set up tohave something outside of the
clinic.
So we partner a lot with ourlocal fire department.
(13:17):
We have a real SAC Metro is ourmajor fire department.
We work a lot with a lot of thelocal club soccer programs,
ecnl programs, some of you inthe professional programs out
here, like our USL championshipsoccer team local colleges
between Jessup and Sac State,and so for every one of our
(13:38):
employees to have somethingoutside of the clinic really I
think is one of our major piecesthat we do.
And then, thirdly, like we loveour staff, we love one another.
We're asked to work really hardin this profession.
Our employers have really highexpectations of us but we also
play really hard and so once aquarter we outdo ourselves and
(13:59):
go enjoy getting the opportunityto spend time with one another.
Getting the opportunity tospend time with one another and
I think between having a greatatmosphere, having something
outside of the clinic thatcontinues to feed us and remind
us of our why, and to be in aprofession that meets that like
wide triangle, I think hasreally helped.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Yeah.
So let me ask you directlyChristy, putting you on the spot
and Davion you're coming next,are you burning out right now?
Speaker 4 (14:26):
Oh, I'm not going to lie, in the last two months of
residency I definitely have felta little bit of that burnout.
Just residency is hard.
I'm in 50, 60 hour weeks rightnow.
So I'm not going to lie and saythat it's easy, but I think
knowing that there's a light atthe end of the tunnel has really
been helping.
And I actually just had a goodconversation with one of my
mentors yesterday.
Just being honest with her andabout it and some of her
(14:49):
feedback has really helped.
And so I can't say that I'm not, but I can't say that I don't
see that light at the end of thetunnel and knowing that change
is coming and I think knowingthat that change is coming is
really helpful.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
See, I think that's a big theme of.
What I want to like jump downto people who are considering to
become physical therapists orpeople who are committed and
they're in school and they'reworried about it is that there's
no profession that that'sworthwhile, that doesn't have
periods of intense stress.
This is a normal part of growthand development Professionally
(15:23):
speaking.
There is kind of a brand thateveryone's always stressed out
all the time and that justsimply isn't the case, like in
your case.
What you described there,christie, was so beautiful
because you understandcircumstantially that, like
you're fresh out of school,you're doing a residency, you're
, you're uh, what do they callthat when you're, you're
hustling.
You're hustling right now andgetting as much data and you can
(15:46):
as a foundation so you canbuild a future in it.
But you see why here's the bigthing I heard you say you know
why you're doing it and you knowwhere you're going, and that is
huge.
Same question to you, davion Doyou, are you burning out right
now as a student?
Speaker 3 (16:03):
I would be lying if I said I wasn't burning out a
little bit as a student, butit's just because more of the
I'm ready and eager to get outthere and start putting more
connections together.
You know, when you're in schoolall the time and you're 8 to 5
every day, you know you'relearning so, so much, and it's
just I'm ready for the hands-onaspect.
I would say, but I mean toChrist Christie's point, like
(16:35):
going back to your why, it'slike I, when I came into school,
I always told myself it's like,you know, the lifelong
commitment to learning startsnow.
So, like, sometimes I alwayshave to kind of go back to my
why, where it's like, you know,I know why I want to do this,
but I also know that I'mcommitted to a lifelong time of
learning and being able to, youknow, just grow my skill sets,
grow practice, grow knowledgeand you know, keeps that like
reminding myself of that keepseverything a little bit more
fresh, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Absolutely, and I think it's great because both of
you guys have good models,especially Christy at her work,
where she sees people who aren'tburning out, who are further
along, who are living a greatproductive life.
It's not that they don't have alot going on, but that's, you
know, that's kind of theexchange for impact.
If we're going to changepeople's lives, anyone in the
healthcare space, I don't carewhat kind of professional you
(17:15):
are Um, you're going to have alot going on, but there is a
degree of balance that occurs asyour skillset and as our, as
our professional world develops.
So we've talked a lot aboutthis thing called the why.
I would argue that ourprofession has some of the
strongest underappreciated whysof any healthcare space.
(17:36):
Heidi probably feels the sameway as I do.
I believe this is the greatestfield in medicine.
Not that others aren'timportant we need all of them
but if we could, of course, as aprofession, be seen as the true
doctors in the community thatwe are and people came directly
to us for all musculoskeletalinjuries at least, and we were
(17:57):
kind of like dental experts inthe way that they come in for
checkups and prevention as muchas treatment and so on If we
were in that space, we'd haveenough profits and possibility
and balance to help resolve anyissues.
So in this case we have thesestrong whys but we almost like
hide them.
Davion, davion what is your why?
Speaker 3 (18:16):
See my why.
It's got to be just kind of thesame thing.
You know not to be cliche, butthe way that my physical
therapist, because I was a bigtime football player, you know,
in high school, thinking I'mgoing to the league going to
play for the Philadelphia Eagles.
You know I got it all on my mind, got it all planned out, but
(18:37):
you know it got to the pointwhere injuries started piling up
, you know, seeing that the bodycouldn't take it.
And then you know it, it kindof put me at a low and it was
(19:02):
like of like sparked a flame forme, because then it's like you
can take that and apply that toanybody's life, whether they're
coming in.
You know a railroad conductorthat tore their ACL, but this is
their livelihood and you got toget it back to.
You have to get them back totheir job.
You know things like that.
I think the biggest why for meis just I want to be there and
impact somebody the same waythat my PT personally impacted
(19:24):
me when I was growing up, andjust making sure that they know
that.
You know, hey, we're takingyour care seriously.
I hear you, I'm seeing I'mwalking in your shoes and I'm
trying to get you right back towhere you are the best way I can
.
So that's probably my way.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
That's a great answer .
I really felt.
I felt your connection to whyyou decided to become a physical
therapist.
Christy, same question what'syour why?
Speaker 4 (19:49):
Yeah, echoing similar to what Davion said had an
incredible PT that went ahead ofme, um, and rehabbed me through
my ACLs and saw the impact thatshe made in my life, um, and
didn't want to be a PT at thetime.
But what flipped me fromworking on the internal side of
college athletics as an athleticcommunications director to the
expert to the sorry, from theexternal to the internal side of
(20:10):
college athletics is thecollege I worked at in 2018.
Unfortunately, just wentthrough a series of really
traumatic events in a six dayperiod of time and I will know I
always tell the story of grace.
She was one of my athletes whohad gone through a lot of these
traumatic experiences with usand One day she unfortunately
(20:30):
was like hiding basicallyunderneath my desk at work.
And there's a flip in me of inthe role that I was currently in
getting to work with some ofthese college athletes on a big
scale.
But I realized in that momentthat I really wanted to get to
work with some of these collegeathletes much more on a one on
one, a little bit more intimatescale, where I really got to
have a really fulfilling impactin each of their lives and so
(20:54):
started exploring a little bitmore of what opportunities I
could look like, pt being one ofthem, um, and so when we talk
about my why, oftentimes it goesback to who, my who, and
oftentimes a lot of my who are alot of these college athletes
that I get to work with now, um,and any athlete of different
ages, right, um, everything fromultra marathon masters, runners
(21:16):
to some of these high schooland even younger athletes, but a
lot of my why goes back to mywho and reminds me of going back
to my who, like grace, um, ofwhy I wanted to shift and be
more one-on-one in the firstplace.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Yeah, I love how you shifted the why into the who and
um.
You know, Vivian said the samething where it was like, yeah,
I've got this PT.
That really impacted me, Heidi,what's your why?
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Well, my why I became a physical therapist if that's
where we're going, I mean for me, like it's always, I've grown
concentric circles around impact.
So it used to be when I was aPT.
(22:01):
It was very much about mypatients, right, and this was my
transition when I started.
Webpt was that was one of thehardest transitions in my career
of of A jumping out of clinicalcare but also figuring out how
that Y then connected totechnology and this EMR company
(22:21):
that we were building right.
And it came back to exactly whatDavion and Christy said is
impact right.
And so, when I recognized thatI could have more impact on not
just the patients who were infront of me and in my own
community, but potentially allacross the country, with all of
these therapy clinics that wereable to see one more patient or
(22:48):
not get burnt out, right,because they could have a more
efficient clinical practice.
And so that it that, for me, isis always been my why, why I
became a physical therapist.
It was helping people, impactwith, with, with patients.
But I wanted to just say, justin listening, and we started
this conversation about why thefuture is bright If you listen
(23:14):
to what the themes and Will.
You're so good at this, but I'mgoing to, I'm going to take
your, your sort of, how you rollusually, in that the things
that I'm hearing are not sodifferent from when you and I
became PTs.
Right, I know that I wasinspired by the physical
therapist Um, when I went downwith a knee injury in college
playing basketball who helped meget back into playing, right, I
(23:37):
was pre-med and then I was like, oh my gosh, like I want to do
this.
Yeah, right.
And so the mentorship componentChristy alluded to this so much
and in how her mentors haveimpacted her, like we, as as the
elder generation, right Need toremember, like our impact on
(23:59):
others, right, and thementorship and clinical
internships.
And that negativity is onlygoing to spiral into having less
people want to become physicaltherapists Right, and I get it
Like if you're burnt out andthis isn't the career for you,
well, maybe you should figureout how do you change that up
into doing something differentand, you know, not have this
(24:23):
sort of negative impact on the,on people coming up, but I do.
I do also think there's somechanges that need to happen, and
this whole educational costissue is a huge burden, right,
it's a huge burden on entry intoPT and also, as I think Davion
(24:44):
and Christy both said, like thecost of and why that negativity
comes out, it's the ROI on thecost of education versus what
we're able to make in our salaryranges that are out there today
.
It's not really commensurate,and so that is a big sort of
hurdle that I feel like we doneed to tackle as a profession
in order for this burnout toreally not or start to be more
(25:07):
mitigated.
And then, just the last thingI'll just say is the community
aspect of what was justmentioned, like the connection
to community within your ownpractice or hospital or wherever
you are.
Like that connection tocommunity and doing something
that's more meaningful.
That's not just about gettingpaid necessarily, like you still
(25:28):
could get paid for it, but it'sit's on this bigger scale.
I think is also, especially forthis next generation, so
important.
For them to connect their whyto something bigger than
themselves is critical forpractices and um, you know,
(25:56):
organizations to think about asfar as retention of of of teams,
but also mitigating burnout.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Absolutely.
You know it's interesting.
My four sons have asked me hey,what's the single most
important professional advicethat you could give?
One of my sons did thisrecently and I just I didn't
even have to hesitate and I saidyour network is your net worth,
which you know isn't the bestway of saying it.
Heidi's doing a more eloquentjob of describing that, because
(26:21):
that what I, what I say, soundsa little bit like you're going
to make money the more peopleyou know.
That's not what I'm saying,cause net worth is about
emotional gain, it's about youknow, community, and so, quite
literally, I love that you saidthat, heidi, because we were all
influenced by these impactfulphysical therapists to get into
the industry.
My audience knows this adnauseum, but since Davion and
(26:43):
Christy probably don't know, Ibecame a PT through a mountain
climbing accident when I was 17,broke 21 bones, both arms, both
legs, literally had to learn towalk again after dozens of
surgeries.
With this amazing therapist,connie Clemens, out there I hope
you're listening.
I love you.
You know, like that and thatand that that emotional what we
do is so special because in ourindustry we leverage the
(27:05):
physical to impact thepsychological and emotional.
That is the thing we don't talkenough about, because it is the
why of the profession to somedegree.
We are in here changing livestogether that go so far beyond
you know, an injured knee at asporting event.
It's about helping them findvalue as an equal team member
and not just coming back intowhere they were, but getting
(27:28):
beyond where they were.
It's, it's this concept of ofthe community aspect that Heidi
hit is so important and kind ofwhat you were saying earlier too
, heidi, this thing aboutburnout.
It's not all bad, like.
I think there's a percentage ofour population that is maybe
leaving the profession, thatmaybe it's not for them but for
those who are staying in thisnext generation.
What a bright future aroundthat.
(27:50):
So you know, heidi did mentionthis thing called expensive
loans, the ROI of like havingthese massive loans versus what
you're going to be paid comingout of school.
Christy, just as a side note,I'm kind of want to dig on that
a little bit with you Did yousay your company offers
additional?
You know, is it financialopportunities outside of working
hours?
Was it more service-based?
Speaker 4 (28:12):
We actually use those hours as part of our salary and
so you actually reduce thenumber of overall clinic hours,
clinical patient hours, and thenpart of your salary is that you
get to spend several hours,whether it be working at the
local high school serving themor with the local college.
Sometimes it's additional hoursdepending on what kind of the
(28:33):
setup is, with whateveropportunity it might look like,
but oftentimes it's part of ourbuilt-in 40-hour week is us
being involved in our community.
And one thing kind of addingonto what Heidi said, that I
hope and I pray that I see moreof in, like the PT profession
moving forward is especially fora lot of these outpatient
(28:54):
clinics.
We have such an opportunity tobe such a relational based
profession and serving ourcommunity is what I want to end
up seeing like is, if our PTclinic were to disappear, is
would the community notice?
And I think we have anopportunity and for us we've
(29:14):
really tried to emphasize thatas we continue to instill hope
and patience and athletes aroundthis area is that we are rooted
and we are networked into theselocal areas.
So that way, if our clinic wereone day to disappear, is that
the community would notice therewould be a void because we're
no longer there, and so I thinkfor us, as we move forward in
our profession, is that I wantto continue to see that grow.
(29:37):
Is that if PT clinics were tostart disappearing, is would the
community notice, right?
Would the medical space noticeif we were gone?
And so that doesn't necessarilyanswer your initial question,
but I just wanted to make sure Iadded that just to echo what
Heidi was saying.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Yeah, it's more important what you said, because
you did answer the question.
I was curious about how thatlooked when you mentioned that,
and what I saw was a brilliantthing that your company is doing
.
Because your company isallowing this, they're really
compensating their team membersto do more than just the care
but caring for the community.
The care but caring for thecommunity.
And that isn't just helping theclinic, probably, and not just
(30:16):
helping you not burn out whenyou're over this current
stressful state you're in, butit helps build the profession.
There's these things thatthey're doing.
That's just one example ofthinking outside the box.
There's entrepreneurs andintrapreneurs.
Entrepreneurs own the business.
Intrapreneurs have the sameimpact.
They just don't have the riskor ownership of the company.
That doesn't mean they'relesser in any way and that's
(30:38):
like a very powerful thing thatyou're doing as a company.
Speaker 4 (30:42):
So, yeah, and I mean for us too like we're set up
where a lot of the things thatwe're involved in whether it be
like professional contracts withfire or the sheriff department
right, those are paid contractsthat we get to have, as well as
when we're involved with ourlocal soccer programs, semi-pro
(31:03):
programs, right, a lot of thatis still cash pay basically, and
so there's still income cominginto the clinic, which is nice.
But then we also get thesecondary aspect of building
that community aspect right, andso when athletes get hurt
soccer players have surgery theyare already associated with our
name.
They've already seen what we'redone.
So now we've increased ournumber of referrals coming into
the clinic from positive word ofmouth or positive association,
from being out in the community.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Yeah, that's really special because that's out of
the box thinking and kind ofwhat Heidi was saying earlier.
We do have these legitimateproblems that have to be
addressed and we have to becreative about how we address
them.
I think we started the beginningof this episode really talking
about the purpose, of why we'redoing it.
To get the mindset right,because if we don't have that
(31:43):
mindset and a strong purpose,we're not going to weather the
storms that are coming ahead asa profession.
So, as you were talking aboutyour why, I wanted to hear
everyone's because ultimately,like Heidi said, it's kind of
rooted in a similar place, eventhough there's a flavor that's
different for each of us.
It's all rooted and we're alldriven by the same passion and
we don't want to let that gojust because there's some
(32:04):
challenges to solve which we canfigure out.
So, davion, as you're in thisstate of being a third year and
more than Heidi and I, I wouldsay being a new graduate in the
near future, being really awareof what's happening, like Heidi
and I, did not have this kind ofawareness of where the industry
is going to struggle, how doyou, what's your vision for the
(32:26):
future?
For you, I'd like to see likewhat is it that you're wanting
to create as a physicaltherapist, as a life for
yourself?
Speaker 3 (32:33):
I think the biggest thing is I just want that impact
kind of just kind of whatChristy was talking about.
I didn't even think about thecommunity impact, but that's
ultimately kind of one of thethings that's been driving me is
, like I've always wanted tojust be somebody in the
community that's giving back andgiving, you know, people a
peace of mind that they havesomewhere to go when injuries
(32:55):
arise and things happen.
You know that my name might bethe first one.
I mean I also just want to justkeep excelling the profession
like in any way I can, whetherit's, you know, with legislation
and, you know, gaining moredirect access for the state of
Texas and, you know, just beingable to just break down walls
that have been up for a longtime and it seems like sometimes
(33:15):
that you know people in ourprofession might've just walked
away from because it might justseem like it's too high of a
wall to climb through or walkthrough, you know.
So that that's kind of my, my,my vision is I just want to be
able to be an impact in mycommunity with, with athletes
and then also just, you know,regular civilian population as
well.
And then just being able to justalso just help, be on the
(33:37):
forefront of, you know, tryingto just progress our profession
in like the most positive way.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Yeah, davion, I think you need to be prepared for a
lot of job offers after thisepisode goes out.
I will tell you what you said.
There was so articulate and I'mgetting chills as I'm thinking
about this concept of breakingthrough the wall.
I I rock stars as you'relistening to this.
I think what we're recognizinghere and this was not preplanned
is is just that returning toour purpose as to why we exist
(34:06):
as a profession and individually, why we chose this, this path
for us, everyone in theprofession has some degree of
frustration because of where weare as an industry, but
rockstarters as you're listeningto this, listen to the hope and
listen to the power of peoplewho are coming up, who know
what's happening and they'rechoosing it anyway because they
know the impact it makes.
(34:29):
And, as Heidi was explaining,this thought of how we break
through the wall isn't totallydefined for us, but community,
the way we connect as anindustry, the way we come
together.
It's important to go to thesePPS events.
It's important to go to any ofthese industry things, no matter
what we feel about how it'sbeing handled, because we need
to gather donors and PT leadersthat we could influence and
(34:55):
support this younger, morepowerful generation.
Together, we can break throughthose barriers.
And it's interesting that wetalk about breaking through,
because the way that you guysall know each other is through
an organization that is breakingthrough a barrier right now.
Heidi, why don't you connectthe dots for everyone who's
(35:15):
listening about how this groupof three people came together?
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Yeah, these two amazing therapists and future
therapists are scholarshipwinners through a Rising Tide,
which is a scholarship programthat I started back in 2020.
It's a nonprofit foundation andwe provide scholarships for
(35:41):
incoming first and rising secondyear DPT students from all
across the country.
We have two sort of tracks ofscholarships.
So Davion is a winner of ourCROSS scholarship, which is for
DPT students fromunderrepresented backgrounds,
and we provide scholarships thatare worth up to $14,000 per
(36:02):
year for the two to three yearsthat they're in their program.
And Christy is a winner of ourSURGE scholarship, which is for
residency students fromunderrepresented backgrounds,
and that scholarship is worth$10,000 for one year of
(36:23):
residency.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Amazing.
And so I have to ask Christyand Davion like what was that
like winning that award?
Like what was that feeling like?
Speaker 4 (36:33):
Okay, I think I literally screamed when I opened
to the email.
Um, I think I was at work whenI opened it to, my poor boss was
like, why is she screaming?
Um?
But I think it's just one ofthose things that, um, it's such
an honor, it is such a blessing.
Um, I think we talked about umlike return on investment, right
, Like residency is aninvestment.
We all know that.
That, especially historicallyin sports residencies, um, and
(36:57):
so getting to have that extrajust sigh of saying, hey, like
financially, I'm covered rightnow, and a lot of these extra
opportunities whether it bethings like csm that we had
recently, right like for that,to know that, hey, financially
I'm covered in that, and otheropportunities with ceus or
things that are coming through,it's a huge honor, it's a huge
(37:18):
blessing and it is, yeah, it'sjust that sigh of like oh, okay,
we can do this?
Speaker 3 (37:28):
Yeah, that is so cool .
What about you, davion?
I was in disbelief from startto finish.
I, from the time that I heardabout Rising Tide, when our
professors they always justemail out scholarships all the
time, I was just like there's noway, right, like no, there's,
no, there's no way that this isreal.
And then this going through theprocess, and then you know,
heidi is on Pacific Time, so Iwas actually waking up at like
(37:49):
three, four in the morning whenI saw the email and I had to
wipe my eyes like multiple times.
I was like I just can't believethis.
You know, it was just likedisbelief.
And then you know just themoment that I had with my wife,
because I'm also a newlywed I'veonly been married for about two
years, so you know seeing,seeing the relief on her face
because you know she wascarrying the load that, you know
(38:09):
the financial strain and havingto be kind of like the
breadwinner for our family for alittle bit while I'm taking
time to set us up for the future.
And then also just seeing mydad and my mom, like they were
all there too.
So they were, they were justlike, you know, like that was a
pretty powerful moment, justseeing everybody kind of like
see my hard work, kind of payoff a little bit, and it was
(38:30):
just nice and it's just honestlythe biggest blessing that I can
ever remember receiving.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Wow, I have to check in with you.
Heidi Like seeing thistransformation happen and these
wonderful leaders.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
What's that like for you to hear that?
Well, I mean, I have goosebumpsEvery time that you know we get
to meet so many.
And again, going back to whatwe started this conversation
with in terms of the futurebring being bright.
One of the most beautifulthings that in starting this
foundation that I've got toexperience is all of the
students that we've met throughthis five years and it's a
(39:11):
hugely competitive process.
So we offer 20 scholarships inDavion's category and we have
just shy of 500 applicationsevery year for the last couple
of years in this category.
And so, while it's superpositive to know that the
(39:32):
diversity of our profession isimproving to where we have, you
know, access to this manystudents to choose from, but
going through all of theirapplications, hearing them
through the interviews, like Ican't tell you how excruciating
it is to be able to choose andnarrow down to those 20 winners.
So hard that we've actuallystarted in going back to some
(39:55):
points that you're making thepower of networking and the
power of community.
We have a more than just ascholarship check writers like.
We provide a whole communityfor our scholarship winners with
mentorship opportunities.
We have quarter, quarterlyeducational sessions.
We actually bring all of ourscholars together.
(40:17):
Here in phoenix, where I live,we do an annual in-person summit
.
We call it our north starsummit.
We bring them all together forthem to actually get to know
each other and meet and interactand hopefully, and help to
build this community that I, youknow.
My vision is that they willstay connected.
And then our most recent sortof opportunity is we've now,
(40:43):
through some fundraisingopportunities, provide future
employment for our graduatingscholars through our Employer
Connect program so we allow themto get exposed to different
organizations, whether it'shospital or outpatient or
skilled nursing facilities, allthe different types of options
(41:07):
that are open to our studentsfor employment.
They sponsor and can actuallyhave an opportunity to meet and
greet with our students on amulti-dimensional basis.
But yeah, it's been a it's beena fantastic five years.
But that's why I'm so, sobullish on the future of our
profession, because I firsthandhave met a lot of our future
(41:31):
leaders, for sure, and throughthis program.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
So, heidi, I've always experienced you as a
super powerful leader, butnothing you've ever said has
impacted me more than just whatyou just said.
And Rockstar is.
The reason that that's landedso strongly for me is that you
know, listen, heidi very easilycould have just sat in this
space listening to Davion andChristy's success and going, wow
, look what I did.
And, by the way, I thinkthere's an element of like, hey,
(42:00):
my efforts being achieved.
But what did she also notice?
She acknowledged immediatelythe hardship of turning other
people down, and I think what'sbeautiful about this whole thing
is just realizing what'spossible.
You know what I mean, heidi,you're just a PT.
You were just a student, apre-med student with a bum knee,
and this PT comes and shiftsyour trajectory to where you
start web PT.
(42:21):
You became a powerful PT, thenyou start web PT and now you're
in this space of creating risingtide and it's affecting the
industry in such a large way.
And Heidi, she just knows herpurpose.
She has a strong vision.
That's true for any of us.
And if, as a profession, if wecould just build this network
together to help each other likeConnie helped me right, and the
(42:42):
way that you guys are going tohelp so many people.
I just think that there's noway the future wouldn't be so
much brighter than we could evereven dream of.
So, um, listen guys.
Davian, christy, I can't thankyou enough for your input.
As you're growing yourprofessions, I have to ask you a
question how do you think we,as a profession, should change
(43:06):
the narrative of this thingcalled a bright future, because
there's many who are questioningit and many more, as you guys
know, who are thinking it's dark.
How do you guys think we canchange that narrative?
And I'm going to start withDavion on this one.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
You know that's a great question.
I think for me the biggestthing is just bringing it back
to knowing our worth.
I think, kind of like wealluded to earlier when we were
saying you know we are thefrontline, we are the
specialists in the MSK world andmusculoskeletal and
rehabilitation.
You know it's just kind ofstarting to embrace that and,
(43:42):
you know, wear it like more as abadge of honor and saying you
know we are the frontlines ofthis, we deserve the respect
that comes with, just like anyother profession, medical
profession out there, thatthey're the frontline of, of
their profession, theirspecialists and their
professions.
I feel like the biggest thingfor PTs it's just knowing that
and starting with a mindsetshift first and understanding
(44:03):
that we are exactly what weearned our degrees in and we
deserve to be compensated.
Looked at all things that comewith it, and then I think, once
the mindset shift starts, youknow building that community,
and then I think for one thing Ithink physical therapists
especially need to do better isjust market ourselves better.
(44:24):
You know, get out there andstart engaging now in this new
social media era, clip era, likebeing able to market ourselves
to where people now understandoh, I can actually go see a
physical therapist before I gosee my doctor.
I didn't even know that thatwas possible.
You know, things like that ofthat nature.
I think that's that's what'sgoing to help the future of our
(44:45):
industry for sure.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
Okay, yeah, how old are you again?
Speaker 3 (44:50):
How old am I?
Yeah, I'm 26.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
Okay, I'm amazed and a little bit jealous.
All right, christy, what do youthink?
Speaker 4 (44:58):
Oh my gosh, our future is so bright with Davion
in it, I think, exactly kind ofwhat Davion said right, starting
with understanding our worthright Our head, how that affects
our heart and what Heidi modelsso well between her humility
and her compassion, and then howthat extends through our hands
into our communities andcreating local impact and
(45:20):
relationship building.
I think there's so many avenues, but I think at the heart of it
, right, pt doesn't have to beanything excruciating outside of
just getting to buildrelationships with so many
people that we get to connectwith on a day-to-day, on a
(45:41):
one-on-one basis, that mostother professions in healthcare
don't get the opportunity to do,and so I think that's a huge
part of it.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
Wow, Davion and Christy.
I am so amazed, Heidi.
I almost wonder if part of whatwe're experiencing here is the
type of strength that you'refinding through this program,
because you're obviously findingindividuals who are gritty.
In a sense, they're alreadystronger than your average bear
(46:11):
because they're coming into thisworld trying to find this.
So this oxygen that you'reproviding through a scholarship
and education and networking, Iwonder if this is probably why
we're seeing so much maturity inthis case.
I don't really have a questionfor you, but what do you think
about that?
Speaker 2 (46:25):
Well, you can obviously see why they were
selected.
I mean, and like I said, it wasexcruciating to be able to pick
only those 20, but there's manymore that were very similar to
them.
But these are shining starsright that stood out in the pack
and I do think that the gritthat you hear and the passion
(46:57):
that you hear comes from a placethat started with mentorship,
of why they chose thisprofession.
But more than that is also thestruggle and the community and
the values that they hold asindividuals, which started with
their own upbringing Right andhow they found that.
(47:20):
And so I know that's true forme, as a product of two
immigrant parents, like thatstruggle in the beginning and
the values that were instilledin me, the value of community
and family and education all ofthose things were part of my
upbringing that now I'm exudingthrough other parts.
(47:43):
It's how you know, part of theculture of WAPT was out of me as
a founder and my own values.
Those values are now beingrepresented in Rising Tide, but
also now extending that tofinding more people who share
those common values and have anopportunity to bring that to the
profession in the future.
(48:03):
And so it really comes back toyour own.
Like we started thisconversation, it comes back to
your own why and being willingto then help others understand.
Help others understand but,more importantly, support their
why to bring that, you know,bring more opportunities for
(48:28):
them to embrace.
And that's really what we'redoing.
We're just providing fuel tothese already amazing folks and
giving them a platform to havean even broader and bigger
impact on the profession andhave it faster right one of the
biggest reasons that we startedthis, when we did our research
of well, what, what kind ofscholarship program do?
(48:49):
should we do we we want to do,or what should I do with this,
this small endowment that we putaside and and that was really
around, the fact that peoplewere not choosing the diversity
of our profession wasn'tchanging.
First of all, the line had sortof flattened, despite a lot of
the things that were happening.
And so you dig deeper and andpeople were not applying because
(49:09):
of the cost of education.
And while we could tackle youknow, try to do that, tackle
that.
That's a huge thing.
Why not start small and growthat community over time in
which you now have people thattruly understand, that have
gotten over the barrier of thecost right, and now they have an
(49:29):
opportunity to hit the groundrunning as soon as they graduate
, without this sort of burden ofstudent debt that's on them.
So let's see what they can do.
And that's really what we'redoing, and you're hearing it
from these amazing folks righthere, and these are just two
examples of the 69 scholars thatwe now have matriculating
(49:52):
through Rising Tide.
Speaker 1 (49:54):
Yeah, it's amazing to think of the power of the one
and when I think about trend asan industry, that people start
to question or at least forgetwhy they did what they, why they
(50:23):
started this journey in thefirst place, and maybe even lose
hope about where they can go.
But at the end of the day, thebest place we can go is helping
someone else get started and Ithink because all it takes is
one person you know yourphysical therapist, Heidi.
I think about the ripple ittakes is one person.
You're a physical therapist,Heidi.
I think about the ripple effectof that one person across the
entire industry and all they didwas care about their patient
(50:46):
and love on them.
That was Connie Clemons.
For me, To this day, I am doingall that I can to help people
be Connie, and it's soempowering and inspiring to see
how you.
The Rising Tide ScholarshipProgram is just one avenue of a
million possibilities that wecan all do.
(51:07):
Like you said, to start small.
But just because we start smalldoesn't mean the impact is
small.
I look at Davion and Christy andI look in their eyes and I see
what I want for the future ofnot the industry.
The industry it's the wills,the 17-year-old kids who are
laying there in bed wondering iftheir life would ever be good
again.
And those therapists who comein with a ball of light and hope
(51:32):
, who uplift, Like yeah, weshould.
Like Davion said, let's go getwhat's ours.
This is the one profession thatI say let's go make as much
money as ethically possible.
Like let's get crazy profitableethically, but like let's go,
let's just stop this thingcalled being a referral that
gets sent out from a doctor andbe the doctor, be that direct
(51:54):
point of care, Cause we we are.
Studies have shown no one knowsthe musculoskeletal industry to
start better than us, except fororthopedic surgeons.
So for us, in a place where wecan stand and come together,
there's, there's endlesspossibility and, yeah, there's
going to be some periods of timewith burnout, but, guys, that's
anything that's worthwhile.
(52:15):
And for us to be able to cometogether and overcome that is
such a beautiful thing.
So, listen, I usually don't getthis so boxy, but I just feel
so much love and inspirationfrom the three of you that I
appreciate letting you talk fora second, Heidi.
How do people learn more aboutthe Rising Tide Scholarship
Program?
Let's just start with that step.
What can you tell the audiencethis is gonna be a mix of
(52:37):
students and leaders and PTowners Like what would you tell
them?
Speaker 2 (52:41):
Yeah, so, uh, if you're a student, we and a
student going through a DPTprogram and you're a first year
or rising second um, we arecurrently in our application
cycle right now.
Um, so if you go to risingR-I-Z-I-N-G, dash tide T-I-D-E
dot com, you can find ourapplication right there on the
(53:03):
website and our deadline is bythe end of this month, so May
31st, we will close it.
And so that's for students,clinic owner or a PT who or a
clinic director who isinterested in in knowing more
about how you can be a part ofrising tide, because we're
(53:24):
always looking for newmentorships, new speaker, new
speakers and, of course, anyonewho financially wants to be a
part of rising tide.
You can also go to our site andthere's a whole different page
on sponsorships and employerconnect program.
Um, so it's R?
I Z I N G dash T I D Ecom.
Speaker 1 (53:45):
Thank you, heidi Davion, christy, for being on
the show.
This is, um, easily going to beone of the most memorable for
me.
Um, I can't thank you guysenough for just being who you
guys are Um, I really appreciateit.
And for all you rock stars arelistening.
Um, I just would like to add toto just start believing in
yourself, the impact that youcan make, um, giving yourself
(54:07):
permission that sometimes itdoes get hard and be burned out,
but remember our why, rememberthe vision and remember the
impact.
And, as always, guys, remember,uh, leadership is not about
becoming something we're not.
It's about stripping away thosethings that are getting in the
way into finding who we alreadyare.
Thanks for listening.
Thank you for listening rockstars.
And if you're one of the manymedical professionals and
(54:27):
leaders who have had it dealingwith the drama of hiring and
training people that you thinkare overpriced, then let's think
about how virtual assistantscan offload you to do what you
love, which is changing people'slives.
In the show notes, there's alink to jump on our calendar so
that we can show you why.
Linkedin shows that virtualassistants is the second fastest
growing trend in health care,next to artificial intelligence,
(54:48):
at no obligation.
We'll see if this is a fit foryou.
I hope to talk to you soon.
Thank you for tuning in to the Willpower Podcast.
This episode might be the mostimportant episode that we
listened to this year and I'mnot being dramatic or
overselling this thing, I juststopped recording it and the
three guests I hadsimultaneously is Davion
Enders-Jones, a third yearphysical therapy student in
Texas, christy FND-Peterson,who's been out of school for
(00:32):
three years working inCalifornia, and Heidi Janenga,
who needs no introduction.
The three of these individualscame together to talk about the
future of physical therapy, whywe believe it's bright and I, as
you're listening to thisepisode, you will actually
understand why it's going to bebetter.
It's been a transformativeepisode.
(00:53):
As we talked about the purposeof why we became physical
therapists, it transitions intothe suppression that we
experience around reimbursementand high cost of education and
all these things that are, insome ways, demoralizing the
industry.
But then the answer to all ofthis comes together in such a
beautiful, inspiring way.
There is no way we could havescripted this.
(01:15):
So please listen through theentire episode.
I promise you you'll think ofthings completely different,
you'll be way more inspired andyou will leave empowered to
start doing actionable thingsthat will change the profession
and your life as well asimpacting others.
Enjoy the show.
Man Heidi, it is so great tohave you on the show with two
(01:36):
amazing physical therapists thatI can't wait to dive into
Today's episode.
As you know, we're talkingabout the future of our industry
at large and what a greatprivilege it is to have you on
the show to talk about that.
You've had such a journey inthis industry.
So let's just kick it off withsomething really light and easy.
Where do you see the future ofour industry going in physical
(01:57):
therapy?
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Well, first of all, will, thank you so much for
having me and these amazingstudents today.
Yeah, starting off light thefuture of PT, Well, I think it's
evolving rapidly.
I think that we're kind of at,you know, a crux of lots of
things coming together, whetherit's the addition of technology
(02:24):
in terms of AI we have a newgeneration coming in with
changing expectations.
Whether we talk about it fromthe employee side or we talk
about it from the patientexpectation side, insurances are
getting tighter and tighter interms of what they are looking
(02:46):
for for payments, whether it'sthe, the number of visits that
they're willing to approve.
We haven't quite got there interms of managed care yet or
value-based care and with theactual outcomes having an effect
on payment.
But you know we see that coming, hopefully sooner than later.
(03:07):
I know we've been talking aboutit in our industry for a really
long time.
I think there's always also abig growing focus on the more
holistic side and preventativecare, which is also fantastic,
and then I mean I would talkabout this for the whole show
but I think probably the thenewer practice models that have
(03:30):
started to evolve with increasein cash based services.
You know more of this conciergestyle of PT and you know just
in general if we're talkingabout outpatient.
But we love the fact that youknow, in our profession there
are so many different ways thatphysical therapists can add
(03:52):
value to and for patient care.
Obviously, today we're lookingat more of the hybrid model as
the future, I think.
In my opinion, Sure.
To balance the expectations ofwhat patients and also the
future employees and how theythink about working with
(04:14):
patients.
I think that's where we'regoing.
So it's a lot of change.
I think it's slowly becomingmore adopted and we'll see sort
of where the puck lands.
We've all gone through it.
I know I've been in thisindustry for gosh going on 30
years and seen a lot of changefrom when I graduated PT school
(04:35):
to where we are today.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Man, you said it best at the end.
It's changed since we startedPT school.
My word, like I think back onthose early days of, like you
know, soap notes, being patient,tolerated treatment Well, see
plan.
For you know, like the dailynote was this big, I don't think
it was even encouraged to do itback then, but it was common.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
And now you're writing it with pen and paper.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
We were like literally penning each visit,
talking to people and checkingboxes for units to build.
Yeah, it's changed.
It has changed and I love.
But here's the thing I heard inyour voice, heidi, was you
sound optimistic about things.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
I am very optimistic about things.
I think that there's a lot ofdoom and gloom happening, just
especially on the payment side,which you know for sure.
Stress causes evolution, right?
Stress causes the need forchange and as long as we're
willing to embrace it and don'tget stuck in our ways of which
this is the way we've alwaysdone it if we're willing to
(05:35):
really embrace it and I thinkthe way that our industry is
structured, entrepreneurship ispart of who we are as providers
I think that that innovation isgoing to come and we're going to
continue to grow our value andhave more access to even more
(05:57):
patients, as people understandmore of what we do and we still
are the low cost, high valueprovider, uh, and I think
there's just a lot moreopportunity for us to to embrace
.
I will say you've heard me talkabout the 90 right 90 of
patients who could, um, you know, come into pt and and receive
(06:20):
value from pt.
Uh, 90 of them are not gettingto us, right?
so so we've only been seeing 10%of the population that could
actually benefit from PT.
That number has changed overthe last 10 years by a couple of
percentage points.
It's not at a great timebecause of the PT shortage,
right?
So we have a volume of patients, but not enough people to serve
(06:42):
them, and so that's why I thinkthe future is bright in terms
of, you know, seeing these twoamazing individuals that we have
with us today, with Christy andDavion, who understand and are
willing and wanting to embracethose communities and other
people that perhaps weren'thaving access to PT, that are
going to now be able to do that.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Yeah, and that's such a great segue because we were
talking about how wonderfullybright the future is of our
industry.
I always tell people like thisguys I say that this is the best
time and people, when I'm onstages, I'm talking like that
and people just look at me likeI'm crazy and I go.
But here's why you know whenwas the best time to buy real
estate?
In the early 2000s, it was 2008and 2009.
(07:27):
And people were just like thisis the worst time.
It's because we have gonethrough so much painful
transition, as Heidi pointed out, that now the outlook is super
positive.
But here's where I get concernedand I'm so glad that we have
Christy and Davion on the showis that I am super concerned
about the next generation.
We had a recent year where morepeople left the industry than
(07:48):
joined the industry, and so I'mso honored to have a current
student and a recent new gradwithin the last three years to
be on the show as we talk aboutwhat it was like for you to make
this decision.
So when?
Let me ask I'm going to startwith Davion, davion did you,
when you decided to become aphysical therapist, were you
(08:09):
aware of some of thesechallenges in the industry.
And then I'll ask Christy thesame question.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, I always kind of heardit and you know, when you're a
tech or a patient, at times youwould kind of hear the jokes or
the rumblings of how we're notquote-unquote doctors or, you
know, we're not looked at thesame way.
I mean, I'd always heard it,but I don't know, I've always
been somebody that's like I wantto leave whatever I found
(08:36):
better than I found it for thenext generation.
So you know, hearing thosethings it never really bothered
me too too much.
I always was just like, well,why is that?
I always ask the why, and thenI want to go down the rabbit
hole of, well, how do we startsolving that?
How do we start commanding alittle bit more respect or, you
know start, you know marketingourselves a little bit better
and putting physical therapy ona brighter map.
(08:57):
So I always did kind of hear it, but it never, it just never
really bothered me because I wasalways kind of always had the
mindset of, uh, let's justadvance this thing then.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Wow, that's inspiring .
Christy, same question to youLike were you aware when you
were going through school?
You've been out of school nowfor three years.
So when you were going throughschool, like, was your class
aware of some of thesechallenges?
And like were there were thereany rumblings of people saying I
got to get out of here?
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Oh, totally.
I think too like I went to aprivate school in California for
PT school and so there's a lotof talks too on like return on
investment right.
So we invest a lot of moneyinto our tuition, into our
education, living in Californiato then especially in the
private practice space andoutpatient not always seeing
that match right Of return oninvestment and how much you're
making an annual income.
And so I think that's where alot of PTs, especially new grads
(09:49):
over the last couple of yearsthat I've really seen really
grumble, had a couple ofclassmates even leave and kind
of pivot into other medicalspaces or even like medical
device sales or anything likethat consulting, because of some
of that return of investmentthat they wanted to see increase
.
But I think the thing thatalways challenged me was seeing
(10:10):
a lot of the people that Iworked with, having gone through
the process of being a patient,an intern, a student, is how
happy all the PTs that I workedwith were, and that doesn't say
that there wasn't a lot ofchallenges, it wasn't to say
that they weren't tired or evenwent through seasons of burnout,
but one of my mentors alwayschallenged me and saying she
goes.
(10:30):
I've been in this profession forseveral decades, and she goes
PT continues to be ranked as oneof the top 10 happiest careers.
And so why is that?
Why is that?
That, even though the return oninvestment isn't necessarily as
high as maybe we would like itto be, especially for our newer
generation of graduates, butwe're still seeing this high
level of overall enjoyment inthe career and seeing how our
(10:54):
employers, how my employer, doesit to try to mitigate some of
that burnout, how to try toimprove employee satisfaction.
Um, so that way we do want tostay in this career long-term,
rather than the turnover rate ofearly in the first three to
five years.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Yeah, I have to say to both Davion and Christy
already I feel even better aboutthe future of our industry.
What in the like both of youguys are telling me you're
completely aware of all thesechallenges.
You were aware of the Facebookgroups that have that we won't
mention by name, that talkedhorribly about the industry.
And then you guys like we'renow we're going to.
In Davion's case it was likewell, let's just make it better.
(11:32):
And in Christie's case, she didresearch, like a good provider
would, and discovered thatpeople were enjoying it in the
in despite of that and chose tomove forward anyway.
That is so inspiring to me andI want to thank you guys both
especially for being on today'sshow as we dig into this future
of physical therapy and what itis that we're going to be
accomplishing together.
So, christy, I'm going tocontinue with you a little bit.
(11:55):
In your case, as you'recurrently working, how are you
dealing with those stresses?
Burnout is the big four-letterword Like how, now that you've
been out in the field, how areyou dealing with that stuff?
Speaker 4 (12:09):
Yeah, good question.
I think, foundationally, whenyou're like looking at a career
and for me one of the reasonswhy I decided to go into PT is
it met the triangle of what Iwas looking for.
So the triangle between, likewhat my skills were, um, between
being more of a people personand having some of those soft
skills for a lot of one-on-onetime with people, and,
educationally, my background inphysiology, but then also my
(12:32):
passions, specifically right nowwith, like, athletes and sports
.
I knew that was a passion ofmine, I knew why I wanted to do
that, and then also myexperience having worked in
college athletics prior to PTschool.
I think finding a career and aprofession within that triangle
was really key to going, beingable to go back to my why right,
and so when I am in thosephases of burnout hey, why am I,
(12:54):
what is my why, and can I goback to that Is?
Pt continued to be in thattriangle and so I think that,
for one, helps as just afoundational aspect, I think.
Secondly, our clinic does areally good job of outside of
traditional clinic care, and wedo see a lot of clinic care is.
Each one of our PTs is set up tohave something outside of the
clinic.
So we partner a lot with ourlocal fire department.
(13:17):
We have a real SAC Metro is ourmajor fire department.
We work a lot with a lot of thelocal club soccer programs,
ecnl programs, some of you inthe professional programs out
here, like our USL championshipsoccer team local colleges
between Jessup and Sac State,and so for every one of our
(13:38):
employees to have somethingoutside of the clinic really I
think is one of our major piecesthat we do.
And then, thirdly, like we loveour staff, we love one another.
We're asked to work really hardin this profession.
Our employers have really highexpectations of us but we also
play really hard and so once aquarter we outdo ourselves and
(13:59):
go enjoy getting the opportunityto spend time with one another.
Getting the opportunity tospend time with one another and
I think between having a greatatmosphere, having something
outside of the clinic thatcontinues to feed us and remind
us of our why, and to be in aprofession that meets that like
wide triangle, I think hasreally helped.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Yeah.
So let me ask you directlyChristy, putting you on the spot
and Davion you're coming next,are you burning out right now?
Speaker 4 (14:26):
Oh, I'm not going to lie, in the last two months of
residency I definitely have felta little bit of that burnout.
Just residency is hard.
I'm in 50, 60 hour weeks rightnow.
So I'm not going to lie and saythat it's easy, but I think
knowing that there's a light atthe end of the tunnel has really
been helping.
And I actually just had a goodconversation with one of my
mentors yesterday.
Just being honest with her andabout it and some of her
(14:49):
feedback has really helped.
And so I can't say that I'm not, but I can't say that I don't
see that light at the end of thetunnel and knowing that change
is coming and I think knowingthat that change is coming is
really helpful.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
See, I think that's a big theme of.
What I want to like jump downto people who are considering to
become physical therapists orpeople who are committed and
they're in school and they'reworried about it is that there's
no profession that that'sworthwhile, that doesn't have
periods of intense stress.
This is a normal part of growthand development Professionally
(15:23):
speaking.
There is kind of a brand thateveryone's always stressed out
all the time and that justsimply isn't the case, like in
your case.
What you described there,christie, was so beautiful
because you understandcircumstantially that, like
you're fresh out of school,you're doing a residency, you're
, you're uh, what do they callthat when you're, you're
hustling.
You're hustling right now andgetting as much data and you can
(15:46):
as a foundation so you canbuild a future in it.
But you see why here's the bigthing I heard you say you know
why you're doing it and you knowwhere you're going, and that is
huge.
Same question to you, davion Doyou, are you burning out right
now as a student?
Speaker 3 (16:03):
I would be lying if I said I wasn't burning out a
little bit as a student, butit's just because more of the
I'm ready and eager to get outthere and start putting more
connections together.
You know, when you're in schoolall the time and you're 8 to 5
every day, you know you'relearning so, so much, and it's
just I'm ready for the hands-onaspect.
I would say, but I mean toChrist Christie's point, like
(16:35):
going back to your why, it'slike I, when I came into school,
I always told myself it's like,you know, the lifelong
commitment to learning startsnow.
So, like, sometimes I alwayshave to kind of go back to my
why, where it's like, you know,I know why I want to do this,
but I also know that I'mcommitted to a lifelong time of
learning and being able to, youknow, just grow my skill sets,
grow practice, grow knowledgeand you know, keeps that like
reminding myself of that keepseverything a little bit more
fresh, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Absolutely, and I think it's great because both of
you guys have good models,especially Christy at her work,
where she sees people who aren'tburning out, who are further
along, who are living a greatproductive life.
It's not that they don't have alot going on, but that's, you
know, that's kind of theexchange for impact.
If we're going to changepeople's lives, anyone in the
healthcare space, I don't carewhat kind of professional you
(17:15):
are Um, you're going to have alot going on, but there is a
degree of balance that occurs asyour skillset and as our, as
our professional world develops.
So we've talked a lot aboutthis thing called the why.
I would argue that ourprofession has some of the
strongest underappreciated whysof any healthcare space.
(17:36):
Heidi probably feels the sameway as I do.
I believe this is the greatestfield in medicine.
Not that others aren'timportant we need all of them
but if we could, of course, as aprofession, be seen as the true
doctors in the community thatwe are and people came directly
to us for all musculoskeletalinjuries at least, and we were
(17:57):
kind of like dental experts inthe way that they come in for
checkups and prevention as muchas treatment and so on If we
were in that space, we'd haveenough profits and possibility
and balance to help resolve anyissues.
So in this case we have thesestrong whys but we almost like
hide them.
Davion, davion what is your why?
Speaker 3 (18:16):
See my why.
It's got to be just kind of thesame thing.
You know not to be cliche, butthe way that my physical
therapist, because I was a bigtime football player, you know,
in high school, thinking I'mgoing to the league going to
play for the Philadelphia Eagles.
You know I got it all on my mind, got it all planned out, but
(18:37):
you know it got to the pointwhere injuries started piling up
, you know, seeing that the bodycouldn't take it.
And then you know it, it kindof put me at a low and it was
(19:02):
like of like sparked a flame forme, because then it's like you
can take that and apply that toanybody's life, whether they're
coming in.
You know a railroad conductorthat tore their ACL, but this is
their livelihood and you got toget it back to.
You have to get them back totheir job.
You know things like that.
I think the biggest why for meis just I want to be there and
impact somebody the same waythat my PT personally impacted
(19:24):
me when I was growing up, andjust making sure that they know
that.
You know, hey, we're takingyour care seriously.
I hear you, I'm seeing I'mwalking in your shoes and I'm
trying to get you right back towhere you are the best way I can
.
So that's probably my way.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
That's a great answer .
I really felt.
I felt your connection to whyyou decided to become a physical
therapist.
Christy, same question what'syour why?
Speaker 4 (19:49):
Yeah, echoing similar to what Davion said had an
incredible PT that went ahead ofme, um, and rehabbed me through
my ACLs and saw the impact thatshe made in my life, um, and
didn't want to be a PT at thetime.
But what flipped me fromworking on the internal side of
college athletics as an athleticcommunications director to the
expert to the sorry, from theexternal to the internal side of
(20:10):
college athletics is thecollege I worked at in 2018.
Unfortunately, just wentthrough a series of really
traumatic events in a six dayperiod of time and I will know I
always tell the story of grace.
She was one of my athletes whohad gone through a lot of these
traumatic experiences with usand One day she unfortunately
(20:30):
was like hiding basicallyunderneath my desk at work.
And there's a flip in me of inthe role that I was currently in
getting to work with some ofthese college athletes on a big
scale.
But I realized in that momentthat I really wanted to get to
work with some of these collegeathletes much more on a one on
one, a little bit more intimatescale, where I really got to
have a really fulfilling impactin each of their lives and so
(20:54):
started exploring a little bitmore of what opportunities I
could look like, pt being one ofthem, um, and so when we talk
about my why, oftentimes it goesback to who, my who, and
oftentimes a lot of my who are alot of these college athletes
that I get to work with now, um,and any athlete of different
ages, right, um, everything fromultra marathon masters, runners
(21:16):
to some of these high schooland even younger athletes, but a
lot of my why goes back to mywho and reminds me of going back
to my who, like grace, um, ofwhy I wanted to shift and be
more one-on-one in the firstplace.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Yeah, I love how you shifted the why into the who and
um.
You know, Vivian said the samething where it was like, yeah,
I've got this PT.
That really impacted me, Heidi,what's your why?
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Well, my why I became a physical therapist if that's
where we're going, I mean for me, like it's always, I've grown
concentric circles around impact.
So it used to be when I was aPT.
(22:01):
It was very much about mypatients, right, and this was my
transition when I started.
Webpt was that was one of thehardest transitions in my career
of of A jumping out of clinicalcare but also figuring out how
that Y then connected totechnology and this EMR company
(22:21):
that we were building right.
And it came back to exactly whatDavion and Christy said is
impact right.
And so, when I recognized thatI could have more impact on not
just the patients who were infront of me and in my own
community, but potentially allacross the country, with all of
these therapy clinics that wereable to see one more patient or
(22:48):
not get burnt out, right,because they could have a more
efficient clinical practice.
And so that it that, for me, isis always been my why, why I
became a physical therapist.
It was helping people, impactwith, with, with patients.
But I wanted to just say, justin listening, and we started
this conversation about why thefuture is bright If you listen
(23:14):
to what the themes and Will.
You're so good at this, but I'mgoing to, I'm going to take
your, your sort of, how you rollusually, in that the things
that I'm hearing are not sodifferent from when you and I
became PTs.
Right, I know that I wasinspired by the physical
therapist Um, when I went downwith a knee injury in college
playing basketball who helped meget back into playing, right, I
(23:37):
was pre-med and then I was like, oh my gosh, like I want to do
this.
Yeah, right.
And so the mentorship componentChristy alluded to this so much
and in how her mentors haveimpacted her, like we, as as the
elder generation, right Need toremember, like our impact on
(23:59):
others, right, and thementorship and clinical
internships.
And that negativity is onlygoing to spiral into having less
people want to become physicaltherapists Right, and I get it
Like if you're burnt out andthis isn't the career for you,
well, maybe you should figureout how do you change that up
into doing something differentand, you know, not have this
(24:23):
sort of negative impact on the,on people coming up, but I do.
I do also think there's somechanges that need to happen, and
this whole educational costissue is a huge burden, right,
it's a huge burden on entry intoPT and also, as I think Davion
(24:44):
and Christy both said, like thecost of and why that negativity
comes out, it's the ROI on thecost of education versus what
we're able to make in our salaryranges that are out there today
.
It's not really commensurate,and so that is a big sort of
hurdle that I feel like we doneed to tackle as a profession
in order for this burnout toreally not or start to be more
(25:07):
mitigated.
And then, just the last thingI'll just say is the community
aspect of what was justmentioned, like the connection
to community within your ownpractice or hospital or wherever
you are.
Like that connection tocommunity and doing something
that's more meaningful.
That's not just about gettingpaid necessarily, like you still
(25:28):
could get paid for it, but it'sit's on this bigger scale.
I think is also, especially forthis next generation, so
important.
For them to connect their whyto something bigger than
themselves is critical forpractices and um, you know,
(25:56):
organizations to think about asfar as retention of of of teams,
but also mitigating burnout.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Absolutely.
You know it's interesting.
My four sons have asked me hey,what's the single most
important professional advicethat you could give?
One of my sons did thisrecently and I just I didn't
even have to hesitate and I saidyour network is your net worth,
which you know isn't the bestway of saying it.
Heidi's doing a more eloquentjob of describing that, because
(26:21):
that what I, what I say, soundsa little bit like you're going
to make money the more peopleyou know.
That's not what I'm saying,cause net worth is about
emotional gain, it's about youknow, community, and so, quite
literally, I love that you saidthat, heidi, because we were all
influenced by these impactfulphysical therapists to get into
the industry.
My audience knows this adnauseum, but since Davion and
(26:43):
Christy probably don't know, Ibecame a PT through a mountain
climbing accident when I was 17,broke 21 bones, both arms, both
legs, literally had to learn towalk again after dozens of
surgeries.
With this amazing therapist,connie Clemens, out there I hope
you're listening.
I love you.
You know, like that and thatand that that emotional what we
do is so special because in ourindustry we leverage the
(27:05):
physical to impact thepsychological and emotional.
That is the thing we don't talkenough about, because it is the
why of the profession to somedegree.
We are in here changing livestogether that go so far beyond
you know, an injured knee at asporting event.
It's about helping them findvalue as an equal team member
and not just coming back intowhere they were, but getting
(27:28):
beyond where they were.
It's, it's this concept of ofthe community aspect that Heidi
hit is so important and kind ofwhat you were saying earlier too
, heidi, this thing aboutburnout.
It's not all bad, like.
I think there's a percentage ofour population that is maybe
leaving the profession, thatmaybe it's not for them but for
those who are staying in thisnext generation.
What a bright future aroundthat.
(27:50):
So you know, heidi did mentionthis thing called expensive
loans, the ROI of like havingthese massive loans versus what
you're going to be paid comingout of school.
Christy, just as a side note,I'm kind of want to dig on that
a little bit with you Did yousay your company offers
additional?
You know, is it financialopportunities outside of working
hours?
Was it more service-based?
Speaker 4 (28:12):
We actually use those hours as part of our salary and
so you actually reduce thenumber of overall clinic hours,
clinical patient hours, and thenpart of your salary is that you
get to spend several hours,whether it be working at the
local high school serving themor with the local college.
Sometimes it's additional hoursdepending on what kind of the
(28:33):
setup is, with whateveropportunity it might look like,
but oftentimes it's part of ourbuilt-in 40-hour week is us
being involved in our community.
And one thing kind of addingonto what Heidi said, that I
hope and I pray that I see moreof in, like the PT profession
moving forward is especially fora lot of these outpatient
(28:54):
clinics.
We have such an opportunity tobe such a relational based
profession and serving ourcommunity is what I want to end
up seeing like is, if our PTclinic were to disappear, is
would the community notice?
And I think we have anopportunity and for us we've
(29:14):
really tried to emphasize thatas we continue to instill hope
and patience and athletes aroundthis area is that we are rooted
and we are networked into theselocal areas.
So that way, if our clinic wereone day to disappear, is that
the community would notice therewould be a void because we're
no longer there, and so I thinkfor us, as we move forward in
our profession, is that I wantto continue to see that grow.
(29:37):
Is that if PT clinics were tostart disappearing, is would the
community notice, right?
Would the medical space noticeif we were gone?
And so that doesn't necessarilyanswer your initial question,
but I just wanted to make sure Iadded that just to echo what
Heidi was saying.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Yeah, it's more important what you said, because
you did answer the question.
I was curious about how thatlooked when you mentioned that,
and what I saw was a brilliantthing that your company is doing
.
Because your company isallowing this, they're really
compensating their team membersto do more than just the care
but caring for the community.
The care but caring for thecommunity.
And that isn't just helping theclinic, probably, and not just
(30:16):
helping you not burn out whenyou're over this current
stressful state you're in, butit helps build the profession.
There's these things thatthey're doing.
That's just one example ofthinking outside the box.
There's entrepreneurs andintrapreneurs.
Entrepreneurs own the business.
Intrapreneurs have the sameimpact.
They just don't have the riskor ownership of the company.
That doesn't mean they'relesser in any way and that's
(30:38):
like a very powerful thing thatyou're doing as a company.
Speaker 4 (30:42):
So, yeah, and I mean for us too like we're set up
where a lot of the things thatwe're involved in whether it be
like professional contracts withfire or the sheriff department
right, those are paid contractsthat we get to have, as well as
when we're involved with ourlocal soccer programs, semi-pro
(31:03):
programs, right, a lot of thatis still cash pay basically, and
so there's still income cominginto the clinic, which is nice.
But then we also get thesecondary aspect of building
that community aspect right, andso when athletes get hurt
soccer players have surgery theyare already associated with our
name.
They've already seen what we'redone.
So now we've increased ournumber of referrals coming into
the clinic from positive word ofmouth or positive association,
from being out in the community.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Yeah, that's really special because that's out of
the box thinking and kind ofwhat Heidi was saying earlier.
We do have these legitimateproblems that have to be
addressed and we have to becreative about how we address
them.
I think we started the beginningof this episode really talking
about the purpose, of why we'redoing it.
To get the mindset right,because if we don't have that
(31:43):
mindset and a strong purpose,we're not going to weather the
storms that are coming ahead asa profession.
So, as you were talking aboutyour why, I wanted to hear
everyone's because ultimately,like Heidi said, it's kind of
rooted in a similar place, eventhough there's a flavor that's
different for each of us.
It's all rooted and we're alldriven by the same passion and
we don't want to let that gojust because there's some
(32:04):
challenges to solve which we canfigure out.
So, davion, as you're in thisstate of being a third year and
more than Heidi and I, I wouldsay being a new graduate in the
near future, being really awareof what's happening, like Heidi
and I, did not have this kind ofawareness of where the industry
is going to struggle, how doyou, what's your vision for the
(32:26):
future?
For you, I'd like to see likewhat is it that you're wanting
to create as a physicaltherapist, as a life for
yourself?
Speaker 3 (32:33):
I think the biggest thing is I just want that impact
kind of just kind of whatChristy was talking about.
I didn't even think about thecommunity impact, but that's
ultimately kind of one of thethings that's been driving me is
, like I've always wanted tojust be somebody in the
community that's giving back andgiving, you know, people a
peace of mind that they havesomewhere to go when injuries
(32:55):
arise and things happen.
You know that my name might bethe first one.
I mean I also just want to justkeep excelling the profession
like in any way I can, whetherit's, you know, with legislation
and, you know, gaining moredirect access for the state of
Texas and, you know, just beingable to just break down walls
that have been up for a longtime and it seems like sometimes
(33:15):
that you know people in ourprofession might've just walked
away from because it might justseem like it's too high of a
wall to climb through or walkthrough, you know.
So that that's kind of my, my,my vision is I just want to be
able to be an impact in mycommunity with, with athletes
and then also just, you know,regular civilian population as
well.
And then just being able to justalso just help, be on the
(33:37):
forefront of, you know, tryingto just progress our profession
in like the most positive way.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Yeah, davion, I think you need to be prepared for a
lot of job offers after thisepisode goes out.
I will tell you what you said.
There was so articulate and I'mgetting chills as I'm thinking
about this concept of breakingthrough the wall.
I I rock stars as you'relistening to this.
I think what we're recognizinghere and this was not preplanned
is is just that returning toour purpose as to why we exist
(34:06):
as a profession and individually, why we chose this, this path
for us, everyone in theprofession has some degree of
frustration because of where weare as an industry, but
rockstarters as you're listeningto this, listen to the hope and
listen to the power of peoplewho are coming up, who know
what's happening and they'rechoosing it anyway because they
know the impact it makes.
(34:29):
And, as Heidi was explaining,this thought of how we break
through the wall isn't totallydefined for us, but community,
the way we connect as anindustry, the way we come
together.
It's important to go to thesePPS events.
It's important to go to any ofthese industry things, no matter
what we feel about how it'sbeing handled, because we need
to gather donors and PT leadersthat we could influence and
(34:55):
support this younger, morepowerful generation.
Together, we can break throughthose barriers.
And it's interesting that wetalk about breaking through,
because the way that you guysall know each other is through
an organization that is breakingthrough a barrier right now.
Heidi, why don't you connectthe dots for everyone who's
(35:15):
listening about how this groupof three people came together?
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Yeah, these two amazing therapists and future
therapists are scholarshipwinners through a Rising Tide,
which is a scholarship programthat I started back in 2020.
It's a nonprofit foundation andwe provide scholarships for
(35:41):
incoming first and rising secondyear DPT students from all
across the country.
We have two sort of tracks ofscholarships.
So Davion is a winner of ourCROSS scholarship, which is for
DPT students fromunderrepresented backgrounds,
and we provide scholarships thatare worth up to $14,000 per
(36:02):
year for the two to three yearsthat they're in their program.
And Christy is a winner of ourSURGE scholarship, which is for
residency students fromunderrepresented backgrounds,
and that scholarship is worth$10,000 for one year of
(36:23):
residency.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Amazing.
And so I have to ask Christyand Davion like what was that
like winning that award?
Like what was that feeling like?
Speaker 4 (36:33):
Okay, I think I literally screamed when I opened
to the email.
Um, I think I was at work whenI opened it to, my poor boss was
like, why is she screaming?
Um?
But I think it's just one ofthose things that, um, it's such
an honor, it is such a blessing.
Um, I think we talked about umlike return on investment, right
, Like residency is aninvestment.
We all know that.
That, especially historicallyin sports residencies, um, and
(36:57):
so getting to have that extrajust sigh of saying, hey, like
financially, I'm covered rightnow, and a lot of these extra
opportunities whether it bethings like csm that we had
recently, right like for that,to know that, hey, financially
I'm covered in that, and otheropportunities with ceus or
things that are coming through,it's a huge honor, it's a huge
(37:18):
blessing and it is, yeah, it'sjust that sigh of like oh, okay,
we can do this?
Speaker 3 (37:28):
Yeah, that is so cool .
What about you, davion?
I was in disbelief from startto finish.
I, from the time that I heardabout Rising Tide, when our
professors they always justemail out scholarships all the
time, I was just like there's noway, right, like no, there's,
no, there's no way that this isreal.
And then this going through theprocess, and then you know,
heidi is on Pacific Time, so Iwas actually waking up at like
(37:49):
three, four in the morning whenI saw the email and I had to
wipe my eyes like multiple times.
I was like I just can't believethis.
You know, it was just likedisbelief.
And then you know just themoment that I had with my wife,
because I'm also a newlywed I'veonly been married for about two
years, so you know seeing,seeing the relief on her face
because you know she wascarrying the load that, you know
(38:09):
the financial strain and havingto be kind of like the
breadwinner for our family for alittle bit while I'm taking
time to set us up for the future.
And then also just seeing mydad and my mom, like they were
all there too.
So they were, they were justlike, you know, like that was a
pretty powerful moment, justseeing everybody kind of like
see my hard work, kind of payoff a little bit, and it was
(38:30):
just nice and it's just honestlythe biggest blessing that I can
ever remember receiving.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Wow, I have to check in with you.
Heidi Like seeing thistransformation happen and these
wonderful leaders.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
What's that like for you to hear that?
Well, I mean, I have goosebumpsEvery time that you know we get
to meet so many.
And again, going back to whatwe started this conversation
with in terms of the futurebring being bright.
One of the most beautifulthings that in starting this
foundation that I've got toexperience is all of the
students that we've met throughthis five years and it's a
(39:11):
hugely competitive process.
So we offer 20 scholarships inDavion's category and we have
just shy of 500 applicationsevery year for the last couple
of years in this category.
And so, while it's superpositive to know that the
(39:32):
diversity of our profession isimproving to where we have, you
know, access to this manystudents to choose from, but
going through all of theirapplications, hearing them
through the interviews, like Ican't tell you how excruciating
it is to be able to choose andnarrow down to those 20 winners.
So hard that we've actuallystarted in going back to some
(39:55):
points that you're making thepower of networking and the
power of community.
We have a more than just ascholarship check writers like.
We provide a whole communityfor our scholarship winners with
mentorship opportunities.
We have quarter, quarterlyeducational sessions.
We actually bring all of ourscholars together.
(40:17):
Here in phoenix, where I live,we do an annual in-person summit
.
We call it our north starsummit.
We bring them all together forthem to actually get to know
each other and meet and interactand hopefully, and help to
build this community that I, youknow.
My vision is that they willstay connected.
And then our most recent sortof opportunity is we've now,
(40:43):
through some fundraisingopportunities, provide future
employment for our graduatingscholars through our Employer
Connect program so we allow themto get exposed to different
organizations, whether it'shospital or outpatient or
skilled nursing facilities, allthe different types of options
(41:07):
that are open to our studentsfor employment.
They sponsor and can actuallyhave an opportunity to meet and
greet with our students on amulti-dimensional basis.
But yeah, it's been a it's beena fantastic five years.
But that's why I'm so, sobullish on the future of our
profession, because I firsthandhave met a lot of our future
(41:31):
leaders, for sure, and throughthis program.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
So, heidi, I've always experienced you as a
super powerful leader, butnothing you've ever said has
impacted me more than just whatyou just said.
And Rockstar is.
The reason that that's landedso strongly for me is that you
know, listen, heidi very easilycould have just sat in this
space listening to Davion andChristy's success and going, wow
, look what I did.
And, by the way, I thinkthere's an element of like, hey,
(42:00):
my efforts being achieved.
But what did she also notice?
She acknowledged immediatelythe hardship of turning other
people down, and I think what'sbeautiful about this whole thing
is just realizing what'spossible.
You know what I mean, heidi,you're just a PT.
You were just a student, apre-med student with a bum knee,
and this PT comes and shiftsyour trajectory to where you
start web PT.
(42:21):
You became a powerful PT, thenyou start web PT and now you're
in this space of creating risingtide and it's affecting the
industry in such a large way.
And Heidi, she just knows herpurpose.
She has a strong vision.
That's true for any of us.
And if, as a profession, if wecould just build this network
together to help each other likeConnie helped me right, and the
(42:42):
way that you guys are going tohelp so many people.
I just think that there's noway the future wouldn't be so
much brighter than we could evereven dream of.
So, um, listen guys.
Davian, christy, I can't thankyou enough for your input.
As you're growing yourprofessions, I have to ask you a
question how do you think we,as a profession, should change
(43:06):
the narrative of this thingcalled a bright future, because
there's many who are questioningit and many more, as you guys
know, who are thinking it's dark.
How do you guys think we canchange that narrative?
And I'm going to start withDavion on this one.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
You know that's a great question.
I think for me the biggestthing is just bringing it back
to knowing our worth.
I think, kind of like wealluded to earlier when we were
saying you know we are thefrontline, we are the
specialists in the MSK world andmusculoskeletal and
rehabilitation.
You know it's just kind ofstarting to embrace that and,
(43:42):
you know, wear it like more as abadge of honor and saying you
know we are the frontlines ofthis, we deserve the respect
that comes with, just like anyother profession, medical
profession out there, thatthey're the frontline of, of
their profession, theirspecialists and their
professions.
I feel like the biggest thingfor PTs it's just knowing that
and starting with a mindsetshift first and understanding
(44:03):
that we are exactly what weearned our degrees in and we
deserve to be compensated.
Looked at all things that comewith it, and then I think, once
the mindset shift starts, youknow building that community,
and then I think for one thing Ithink physical therapists
especially need to do better isjust market ourselves better.
(44:24):
You know, get out there andstart engaging now in this new
social media era, clip era, likebeing able to market ourselves
to where people now understandoh, I can actually go see a
physical therapist before I gosee my doctor.
I didn't even know that thatwas possible.
You know, things like that ofthat nature.
I think that's that's what'sgoing to help the future of our
(44:45):
industry for sure.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
Okay, yeah, how old are you again?
Speaker 3 (44:50):
How old am I?
Yeah, I'm 26.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
Okay, I'm amazed and a little bit jealous.
All right, christy, what do youthink?
Speaker 4 (44:58):
Oh my gosh, our future is so bright with Davion
in it, I think, exactly kind ofwhat Davion said right, starting
with understanding our worthright Our head, how that affects
our heart and what Heidi modelsso well between her humility
and her compassion, and then howthat extends through our hands
into our communities andcreating local impact and
(45:20):
relationship building.
I think there's so many avenues, but I think at the heart of it
, right, pt doesn't have to beanything excruciating outside of
just getting to buildrelationships with so many
people that we get to connectwith on a day-to-day, on a
(45:41):
one-on-one basis, that mostother professions in healthcare
don't get the opportunity to do,and so I think that's a huge
part of it.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
Wow, Davion and Christy.
I am so amazed, Heidi.
I almost wonder if part of whatwe're experiencing here is the
type of strength that you'refinding through this program,
because you're obviously findingindividuals who are gritty.
In a sense, they're alreadystronger than your average bear
(46:11):
because they're coming into thisworld trying to find this.
So this oxygen that you'reproviding through a scholarship
and education and networking, Iwonder if this is probably why
we're seeing so much maturity inthis case.
I don't really have a questionfor you, but what do you think
about that?
Speaker 2 (46:25):
Well, you can obviously see why they were
selected.
I mean, and like I said, it wasexcruciating to be able to pick
only those 20, but there's manymore that were very similar to
them.
But these are shining starsright that stood out in the pack
and I do think that the gritthat you hear and the passion
(46:57):
that you hear comes from a placethat started with mentorship,
of why they chose thisprofession.
But more than that is also thestruggle and the community and
the values that they hold asindividuals, which started with
their own upbringing Right andhow they found that.
(47:20):
And so I know that's true forme, as a product of two
immigrant parents, like thatstruggle in the beginning and
the values that were instilledin me, the value of community
and family and education all ofthose things were part of my
upbringing that now I'm exudingthrough other parts.
(47:43):
It's how you know, part of theculture of WAPT was out of me as
a founder and my own values.
Those values are now beingrepresented in Rising Tide, but
also now extending that tofinding more people who share
those common values and have anopportunity to bring that to the
profession in the future.
(48:03):
And so it really comes back toyour own.
Like we started thisconversation, it comes back to
your own why and being willingto then help others understand.
Help others understand but,more importantly, support their
why to bring that, you know,bring more opportunities for
(48:28):
them to embrace.
And that's really what we'redoing.
We're just providing fuel tothese already amazing folks and
giving them a platform to havean even broader and bigger
impact on the profession andhave it faster right one of the
biggest reasons that we startedthis, when we did our research
of well, what, what kind ofscholarship program do?
(48:49):
should we do we we want to do,or what should I do with this,
this small endowment that we putaside and and that was really
around, the fact that peoplewere not choosing the diversity
of our profession wasn'tchanging.
First of all, the line had sortof flattened, despite a lot of
the things that were happening.
And so you dig deeper and andpeople were not applying because
(49:09):
of the cost of education.
And while we could tackle youknow, try to do that, tackle
that.
That's a huge thing.
Why not start small and growthat community over time in
which you now have people thattruly understand, that have
gotten over the barrier of thecost right, and now they have an
(49:29):
opportunity to hit the groundrunning as soon as they graduate
, without this sort of burden ofstudent debt that's on them.
So let's see what they can do.
And that's really what we'redoing, and you're hearing it
from these amazing folks righthere, and these are just two
examples of the 69 scholars thatwe now have matriculating
(49:52):
through Rising Tide.
Speaker 1 (49:54):
Yeah, it's amazing to think of the power of the one
and when I think about trend asan industry, that people start
to question or at least forgetwhy they did what they, why they
(50:23):
started this journey in thefirst place, and maybe even lose
hope about where they can go.
But at the end of the day, thebest place we can go is helping
someone else get started and Ithink because all it takes is
one person you know yourphysical therapist, Heidi.
I think about the ripple ittakes is one person.
You're a physical therapist,Heidi.
I think about the ripple effectof that one person across the
entire industry and all they didwas care about their patient
(50:46):
and love on them.
That was Connie Clemons.
For me, To this day, I am doingall that I can to help people
be Connie, and it's soempowering and inspiring to see
how you.
The Rising Tide ScholarshipProgram is just one avenue of a
million possibilities that wecan all do.
(51:07):
Like you said, to start small.
But just because we start smalldoesn't mean the impact is
small.
I look at Davion and Christy andI look in their eyes and I see
what I want for the future ofnot the industry.
The industry it's the wills,the 17-year-old kids who are
laying there in bed wondering iftheir life would ever be good
again.
And those therapists who comein with a ball of light and hope
(51:32):
, who uplift, Like yeah, weshould.
Like Davion said, let's go getwhat's ours.
This is the one profession thatI say let's go make as much
money as ethically possible.
Like let's get crazy profitableethically, but like let's go,
let's just stop this thingcalled being a referral that
gets sent out from a doctor andbe the doctor, be that direct
(51:54):
point of care, Cause we we are.
Studies have shown no one knowsthe musculoskeletal industry to
start better than us, except fororthopedic surgeons.
So for us, in a place where wecan stand and come together,
there's, there's endlesspossibility and, yeah, there's
going to be some periods of timewith burnout, but, guys, that's
anything that's worthwhile.
(52:15):
And for us to be able to cometogether and overcome that is
such a beautiful thing.
So, listen, I usually don't getthis so boxy, but I just feel
so much love and inspirationfrom the three of you that I
appreciate letting you talk fora second, Heidi.
How do people learn more aboutthe Rising Tide Scholarship
Program?
Let's just start with that step.
What can you tell the audiencethis is gonna be a mix of
(52:37):
students and leaders and PTowners Like what would you tell
them?
Speaker 2 (52:41):
Yeah, so, uh, if you're a student, we and a
student going through a DPTprogram and you're a first year
or rising second um, we arecurrently in our application
cycle right now.
Um, so if you go to risingR-I-Z-I-N-G, dash tide T-I-D-E
dot com, you can find ourapplication right there on the
(53:03):
website and our deadline is bythe end of this month, so May
31st, we will close it.
And so that's for students,clinic owner or a PT who or a
clinic director who isinterested in in knowing more
about how you can be a part ofrising tide, because we're
(53:24):
always looking for newmentorships, new speaker, new
speakers and, of course, anyonewho financially wants to be a
part of rising tide.
You can also go to our site andthere's a whole different page
on sponsorships and employerconnect program.
Um, so it's R?
I Z I N G dash T I D Ecom.
Speaker 1 (53:45):
Thank you, heidi Davion, christy, for being on
the show.
This is, um, easily going to beone of the most memorable for
me.
Um, I can't thank you guysenough for just being who you
guys are Um, I really appreciateit.
And for all you rock stars arelistening.
Um, I just would like to add toto just start believing in
yourself, the impact that youcan make, um, giving yourself
(54:07):
permission that sometimes itdoes get hard and be burned out,
but remember our why, rememberthe vision and remember the
impact.
And, as always, guys, remember,uh, leadership is not about
becoming something we're not.
It's about stripping away thosethings that are getting in the
way into finding who we alreadyare.
Thanks for listening.
Thank you for listening rockstars.
And if you're one of the manymedical professionals and
(54:27):
leaders who have had it dealingwith the drama of hiring and
training people that you thinkare overpriced, then let's think
about how virtual assistantscan offload you to do what you
love, which is changing people'slives.
In the show notes, there's alink to jump on our calendar so
that we can show you why.
Linkedin shows that virtualassistants is the second fastest
growing trend in health care,next to artificial intelligence,
(54:48):
at no obligation.
We'll see if this is a fit foryou.
I hope to talk to you soon.
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