July 15, 2025 • 55 mins
Prepare for a deeply honest and incredibly inspiring conversation with Tim Spooner, founder of Spooner Physical Therapy, the largest privately-held PT company in Arizona, and the founder of Solve Global. Tim opens up about his own struggles with cash flow, overwhelm, and working full-time in the clinic, revealing the breaking points that forced him to pivot toward true freedom.
This episode is a must-listen for any private practice owner, especially those feeling stuck. Tim shares invaluable advice for shifting your mindset, stepping out of treating, and embracing leadership to scale your business. He also discusses how AI is already playing a role in revolutionizing healthcare analytics in his new ventures, offering a unique perspective on the AI vs. VA debate. Get ready for practical wisdom mixed with profound insights into passion, purpose, and the future of our profession.
In this episode, you'll discover:
- From Struggle to Scale: Tim's raw story of overcoming financial and operational overwhelm to build an empire.
- The "Breaking Point" Myth: Why true freedom often begins when you recognize you can't do it all.
- Critical Advice for Owners: Practical tips on stepping out of treating, increasing your business acumen, and trusting your team.
- The Purpose-Driven Path: How passion for healthcare and solving global problems fuels sustained growth and innovation.
- AI in Action: Learn how AI is being leveraged for advanced analytics in new healthcare models.
- The Human Connection at the Front Line: Tim's unique philosophy on why some roles demand in-person interaction, even with the rise of AI and VAs.
- Overcoming Guilt: How to navigate the emotional challenges of stepping into a more strategic leadership role.
Join us as Tim Spooner shares his journey to impacting thousands, freeing up his time, and pushing the boundaries of what's possible in physical therapy.
Follow Tim Spooner on Social Media:
- Spooner: https://www.spoonerpt.com/
- Spooner Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/spoonerpt/ - @spoonerpt
- solveglobal® : https://www.solveglobal.com/
Virtual Rockstars specialize in helping support or replace all non-clinical roles.
Learn how a Virtual Rockstar can help scale your physical therapy practice.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, rock stars, I got a riddle.
What do you call a physicaltherapist who almost bankrupted
his company and then turned itinto a 600-employee powerhouse
across two states?
You call him Tim Spooner.
In this episode, Tim is gonnago back behind the curtain on
his journey from treatingfull-time across multiple
clinics to leading Arizona'slargest independent PT group and
(00:22):
launching Solve Global.
That's a tech-powered gamechanger for our industry.
That's transforming corporatehealthcare.
We're going to talk aboutfreedom real freedom, Not the
kind that you post on Instagram,but the kind that comes after
asking for help, hitting rockbottom and then building
something that lasts.
And yeah, we're going to gointo AI and artificial
(00:45):
intelligence and VAs.
Tim shares how predictiveanalysis are helping prevent
injuries before they happen andwhy he still misses the party in
the back of his clinic.
This one's for every clinicowner, every private practice
leader, so that you can have abigger dent in healthcare
without losing your soul.
Let's dive in.
It's almost like a trap, right,it's a trap.
(01:06):
People get passionate abouttreating, but they choose to
become an owner and then theystay in the business because
they're treating and they justburn out.
Tim, thank you so much forbeing on the show as a repeat
guest.
Your last episode did so greatin this new season that we're
doing with AI and VAs andfreedom.
(01:28):
I was so grateful that you werewilling to come back on the
show.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Thank you, Will.
It's a pleasure to be here andI especially like the concept of
exploring what freedom shouldlook like to a therapist.
I looked forward to having thatdiscussion.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Me too.
I just think you and I aresuper connected about the bright
future of our industry, whichwas our last episode.
And yeah, freedom has to be inplay, because I would say that's
probably why a lot of peoplearen't in our profession.
That used to be, or evenconsidering.
Maybe that's not why I shouldjoin the profession.
But let's talk about you, Tellus about your businesses.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Sure, well, first of all, I'm the CEO of Spooner
Therapy.
Spooner has been around for 35years now and we have 27
locations in Arizona and two inTexas and we have roughly 600
plus employees and we havespecialists of basically any
(02:29):
type of specialist you can thinkof in therapy, from hand to
women's health, to breast cancer, to neuroimpedes and especially
we emphasize sports andorthopedics.
So there's not anything reallythat we can't take care of and
(02:49):
we have a lot of experienceamongst our 160 plus therapists.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
That's amazing.
Are you the largest in Arizona,the privately held in Arizona?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
I believe so.
I'm not sure, I believe so, I'mnot sure.
I don't think there's any oneof our size left that hasn't
been acquired by private equityand or a strategic.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Yeah, it's interesting because at least
that's what I've been tellingpeople.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
I believe that's true .
I know there's some up andcomers that are now getting into
7 and 10 sites, which isawesome.
I mean, as a proponent of theprofession and a proponent of
people who have, you know,worked with us and now own their
own clinic and stuff, to methat's great for the profession
that we grow as independentpractitioners but we continue to
collaborate, which I think isreally key practitioners, but we
(03:46):
continue to collaborate, whichI think is really key.
Um, for instance, this week, Iuh I was uh involved with a
couple other therapists and andwe went down and met with a
state senator.
Um, if you, if you notice that,uh, or if you recall that
recently, utah passed a, a billto promote physical therapists
as primary care musculoskeletalproviders and we are looking to
(04:12):
get a similar bill sponsoredhere in Arizona.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
If freedom had a love language, it'd be delegation.
So if you're tired of wearingall the hats the CEO hat, the
insurance hat, the why am Idoing payroll at midnight hat
it's time to get help.
Book a free discovery call atvirtualrockstarcom and let's
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(04:37):
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Don't miss out on the secondfastest growing trend in
healthcare and in saving $20,000per year of profit per hire.
Remember, you deserve abusiness that gives more than it
takes.
Remember, back in the day,talking about collaboration with
(04:58):
what would be consideredcompetitors, you and Mike Bastin
the great Mike Bastin a goodguy, he used to own Foothills
before he exited and, man, whata great collaboration that you
guys had in helping the ArizonaState private practice section.
So it's really cool to see howyou've done that.
But that's not your onlycompany either.
Tell us about your othercompany.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
So I'm also the CEO of Salt Global, which is a
tech-enabled human maintenanceorganization, and what that
means in just simple speak isthat we work directly with
employers to help them withtheir mus the risk in an
employee population, and then goand intervene.
So we're working upstream fromwhat we would normally see in an
(05:41):
outpatient clinic, and, as atherapist, to me it's like the
(06:07):
embodiment of why a lot of usget in is to prevent a lot of
injuries, but catching themearly and being able to help
them is is a is just super fun.
And then what it does, though,is give our practitioners who
are doing it tremendous freedom,because they are extremely
autonomous, working with anemployer and taking care of
1,000 people and if you told meI'm going to take care of 1,000
(06:30):
people in an outpatient clinictoday- oh they'd jump off a
bridge.
I don't know how I would do that, but if I have technology that
says, hey, of these 1,000 people, you should touch base with
these 15 today and maybe mayhave some type of communication
with these other 10.
And so I can keep in contact.
(06:51):
I can still use my hands-onskills, but I can have an
extremely positive interactionwith an employee base for a
company, which helps the company.
It helps that individual, thatemployee, have access to
physical therapy services and bydoing that we help them feel
(07:15):
and move better and ultimatelyit lowers health care costs,
because of the fact that 80% ofmusculoskeletal things should be
taken care of by a conservativeprimary care provider, and
that's what we do.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Yeah, rock stars.
I really can't emphasize enoughhow big this concept is that
Tim is developing, and formultiple reasons.
You know the vision of theprofession being doctors in the
community.
That's what this is.
It's a different, it's acompletely different model
because the PTs here are thedoctors in the communities over
these companies, and there's somuch to that because it's more
(07:52):
profitable for the businessowners and the PTs can make more
money and have more freedom.
And we're doctors and I mean,like, think about how it affects
the population, the industryand the individual therapist.
It's.
This is a game changing businessthat you have and I get nothing
for saying this.
Let's be clear, Cause it soundslike I'm selling it already,
but I'm just super passionateabout anything that's pushing
our profession forward, and inthis case I just want to
(08:14):
highlight rock stars as well.
That Tim and I are having thisconversation while he is at his
cabin in the mountains, not onlylike preserving life for his
family, but also like you're,seeing clients up there, like
you're.
You have, because of the waythat you've created Spooner
Physical Therapy, the corebusiness you have.
What did you do with your timeand your profits?
You're you're helping morepeople and moving the profession
(08:37):
forward.
It's not like you're laying onthe beach 24 seven.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
And and it's and we have, we have, uh, we take care
of firefighters across theArizona landscape and we take
care of two districts that areup here, the Pinetop and the
Timber Mesa District up here and, as such, I get to stop in, see
them, talk with them,strategize on how we can help
keep our first respondershealthy and safe.
(09:02):
First responders healthy andsafe and what we call you know
ready.
You know we want to help themfrom hire to retire and beyond,
and when we think of that, wewant to make sure that they are
ready and fit for fire.
You know, are they fit for fire?
(09:23):
You know, are they fit for duty?
And that is a huge, huge thingbecause there's, they're.
Being healthy is a is a safetything, and you know, if they
have to run into a burningbuilding, um, if they can't do
something that could put notonly themselves but others in
jeopardy, and so it's, it's,it's fun for us to care of them
(09:45):
and really hear what they need.
And I'll just tell you that itbroke my heart that I talked
with one last week and he said,yeah, I just don't like going to
XYZ place because they treat melike a 75-year-old.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
A physical therapy place he's going to yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Yeah, and this is a 40 year old athlete, you know
that has to do physical things.
So we, you know we have to makesure that we are meeting him
and meeting the demands of hisjob where he's at.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Well, one thing that you mentioned thank you, tim,
for sharing all that.
I think one thing that youmentioned that I'll dig into
later is how AI plays into that,because you mentioned that
artificial intelligence isleveraged, so placeholder rock
stars, as you're listening, thatlater we're going to hit on
this AI VA debate that we'rehaving and right now, tim, I
think, as people are listeningto you especially any private
practice owners they're probablyfeeling a little disconnected
(10:42):
because they're like, wow, lookwhat Tim's doing.
I could never do that.
Share with me what, share withthe audience what you're talking
to me about one of thosemoments when you really were
struggling in your business, andhow and why you were struggling
and what you ended up doingabout it to help you kind of get
to where you are now.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Well, before we go there, if you, if you don't mind
, let me you know.
For those who are feeling likethey want to do something in
this space, I talk withtherapists literally all over
the country on a weekly basisand what I ask them is do you
want to turn your relationshipsinto revenue?
And that's essentially what wedo.
(11:19):
So their relationships, they'retaking care of their community,
they're seeing patients andundoubtedly, some of them may be
business owners, and there isnot a business owner that I know
of in the United States that isnot being affected by health
care costs and you have asolution for them.
(11:39):
And so I help them understandhow to have those conversations,
but also how to implement asolution, a direct-to-employer
solution, such as Salt Global.
And so it's fun for me to helpsomebody in Kansas City, to help
somebody in Texas, to helpsomebody you know in Minnesota.
You know we're in multiplestates now and it's what are we
(12:01):
doing?
Well, we get to do what we wentto school to do, which is help
people, but now I'm getting somefreedom from the nickel and
diming of the insurance worldand I'm having a direct
conversation with an employerwho values what I can provide,
and it's not the same as puttinga PT on site Right, because
(12:24):
putting a PT on site withouttechnology and without
understanding the risk of wherethe risk is in that employee
population, you're going totreat the loudest hangnail and
that's not really helpful to theemployer.
You provided some access butyou didn't take care of, you
left a lot of chips on the tableis what I would say.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Very powerful stuff.
Thank you, tim, I appreciatethat.
And actually, before we evenget to that breaking point and
how you pivoted into thisfreedom, I love that you said
that because you highlight thereal suppressive causes as to
why many private practice ownersnot just PTs, but healthcare
providers in general arestruggling with their freedom.
Owners, not just PTs, buthealthcare providers in general,
are struggling with theirfreedom.
So, from from from, before weget to the whole, like when did
(13:08):
you pivot, why did you choosethis path and why do you keep
choosing it as you scale?
Many people like you mentionedsmaller than you tap out and
sell.
Why did you choose and why doyou keep choosing?
Speaker 2 (13:21):
What's your purpose and passion here?
Yeah, you, you mentioned, uh,you know, getting together with
Mike Bastin and we formed theArizona Rehab Alliance and we
had we had several privatepractice members in Arizona that
were, that were part of that,and I learned a ton from that,
and what I learned most was thatwe need to work and collaborate
(13:44):
more as a profession versusworking in isolation, and that
the abundance of of patiencemeans that the other practice
owners aren't my competition.
My competition is what limits myability to get paid.
And so, as we're going throughthat, I kept noticing that my
(14:07):
healthcare costs for my owncompany I was in a fully insured
program at that time keptrising up at a 10 to 15% every
annual rate, and I knowtherapists that it's risen as
high as 30 to 40%, that it'srisen as high as 30 to 40
(14:30):
percent.
Uh, you know, I know annualjump.
And at the same time, the samecompany that I was paying those
premiums to was lowering my re,lowering my reimbursement.
So I noticed this huge spreadand I said this seems wrong.
And so I took it upon myselfover the last 10, 11 years to
really educate myself on healthcare, on what the insurance
industry looks like and to dwelldeep into that, to say number
(14:52):
one how can I fix my own problemin my company?
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
And then second, how can I play in that space?
Because I feel like I havesomething valuable to provide
the community, but I want to doit on a scale basis.
I want to be able to help morepeople and that's what led me
down the path ofdirect-to-employer and the
self-global solution.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Got it so very passionate about helping that
industry drives you forward.
So let's now hear about a timethat you didn't have it all
figured out.
Let's go back to a time.
What?
Was there?
A stage of your business thatmaybe you felt the stress and
overwhelm and recognized somekey things there?
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yeah, I'll name a couple of them, and one of them
was we just moved.
We just gone to four clinics.
We were jumping from two to fourmillion annual revenue and
getting ready to probably doublethat again, and I realized my
skill set as a leader weren'tthere, and so I enrolled myself
in a it was called tech backthen, it's called Vistage now,
(15:56):
which is executive trainingleadership, and it was very
helpful for me to meet withother business owners who
essentially acted as my boardand they held me accountable to
running a business and it wasinstrumental in my development,
(16:19):
and we'd bring in expertspeakers on everything from of
business, how to do a strategyand do some strategic planning
things that were not common orvery easy for me to do because
I'd never been fully trained inthem, and so I learned from
(16:42):
people who are running three$400 million businesses and they
would come with me once a monthand they would poke me in the
chest and say how's yourbusiness?
And everything from how youintroduce yourself to how you
run a business, to understandingwhat cash is in the business.
(17:06):
So at this same time, we wererapidly expanding and going from
four to eight clinics and wewere busy.
Things were.
You know we're seeing a lot ofpatients, but I made a couple
mistakes, and my mistake was Ioutgrew my cash.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
We were busy in the clinic.
You didn't have enough money.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
I had zero cash.
And when I did that uh, again,this board was very helpful to
me they peppered me in the chestand said look, you know,
without cash you have nobusiness.
And I said, no, but look at allthese people in my clinic that
you know.
Look at, look at all thispeople in my clinic, look at all
this AR.
And they couldn't believe thestate of my AR, which was a
whole other scenario, because,yes, we were busy, but we
(17:56):
weren't collecting the money andI had to pay people every two
weeks.
So it was a rude awakening.
After 15 years of being inbusiness, I essentially bankrupt
myself and I had to go into myown pockets to keep the company
going.
But I believed in what we weredoing, and so I made a few
strategic changes there.
One of them was bringing onexperts in the arenas with which
(18:22):
they function so operations,people, accounting, hr these
were hired?
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Were these employees that you hired?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Yep, okay, I made that decision to move that route
because I realized that theaspect of being a good
practitioner and just having anoffice manager was only going to
take us so far.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
We needed more structure, we needed more
systems in order to scale andstandardize a few things, and
that was a key point.
And so when we did that, youknow, in the beginning it was
just myself and another personwho wore several hats apiece,
and meanwhile I'm still treatingfull-time too.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
You're treating full-time, with all this going
on, yeah, and a bankruptedcompany.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
So I would see patients, I would go home and
see my kids and see my familyfor a couple hours and I would
come back and do accounting atnight.
I mean, it was not the best oftimes, let's put it that way,
but when you dig in and you gothrough those tough things, I
think you really learn yourbusiness.
Number one, and the reason thatyou got into private practice
(19:37):
comes to bear.
I didn't get into privatepractice to make a million
dollars.
I get into private practice tobe creative, have freedom that
you mentioned earlier but alsoto take care of people, and so
we were taking care of people.
I just need to figure out someof these other things so that we
could continue to do that.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Man, I feel more connected to you.
I wanted you to share that sothat the audience could be more
connected, because you and I arebuddies.
But at the same time, I neverknew that and it's something
that is so paralleled in myjourney.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
I don't go around saying how I bankrupt myself.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
very often but what's ironic about that, tim, is that
I think people who arelistening are starting to really
pay attention, because when wesee what you've accomplished and
this is true for all verysuccessful people it can feel
out of reach in terms of like,well, that's great for them, but
I'm not that guy.
So when when someone says, wow,he went from that to that, then
it becomes inspiring.
(20:31):
It's like, well, maybe I can domore.
And I would say you know whatyou said there was so inspiring
because it's so relatable tothis the fact that most people
probably listening who'vestruggled in their companies
have been in that position where, like, cash stinks or is
non-existent, but business is sooverwhelming that they're
stressed on both ends in a waythat you would think would line
(20:52):
up.
So, as people are listening,what would you, what advice
would you give to to youngprivate practice owners, um, in
maybe one to two location stagesLike, what, what would be the
two or three freedom creatingtips that you would give them?
Speaker 2 (21:08):
There's gotta be some standardization and some
structure.
There's there's that old adageof structures, you know, set you
free.
That was especially true for meIn the.
The person that are hired todeal with me today is, you know,
provided structure and providedsystems.
They basically downloaded a lotof the ideas and stuff I had in
(21:31):
my head, but put structure onthem so everyone could
understand them and we couldhave systems and things in place
, and so I think it's reallyimportant to look at that and
understand.
Before anyone goes into privatepractice, I always ask them
like, why are you doing it?
What is your passion point?
(21:51):
And because there will come atime when things happen and
you're going to have to rely on.
That's why I'm doing it.
Because if you go into it forfinancial reasons, um, there'll
be a time when it may not workout, and if that's the only
reason you're into it, then it'sit.
(22:12):
It becomes, I think, a shallowshell thing.
Your passion has to besomething, um, I think, deeper
than a material object.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah, it's almost like a trap.
Right, it's a trap.
People get passionate abouttreating, but they choose to
become an owner and then theystay in the business because
they're treating and they justburn out?
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Yeah, and I think the key things I would tell them is
that surround yourself and findgreat mentors, people that you
trust that will give you honestopinions, whether that is, you
know, an executive traininggroup, someone outside of the
business.
So when you're the leader inyour business, there's certain
(22:51):
things you can't talk to yourother employees about, and this
is why it's important to haveother collaborative leaders that
you can talk to and not bethreatened by them.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
That's amazing.
I love that advice.
Anything else you would add forpeople for advice?
Speaker 2 (23:07):
The other thing is that as your business grows,
your skill set will have toimprove in different areas, and
whether that is you know.
For me, I mean, when I startedthe business, we didn't have
computers.
Let's put it in perspective, itwas a pegboard accounting
system, you know.
So all through that, I had toupgrade my computer skills,
(23:30):
spreadsheets.
Understanding all of this thing, you have to continually adapt
and grow.
Um, you have to grow as a, as acommunicator, as a, as a leader
.
It's one thing to be in frontof 10 people, it's different to
be in front of 100.
And it's certainly different tobe in front of 600.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Got it.
So here's my question to youYou're at this stage.
Where are you still learningthese things that you talk about
?
You have to increase your skill.
Are you still increasing yourskill, or have you hit a skill
level where maybe the focusisn't on improving the skill as
much as it's expanding whatyou're doing Like?
I'm curious, at your stage,what that looks like.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Now there's always something to learn.
I would say, right now, theskills that I'm passionate about
working on are how I can relatebetter to CEOs so I can solve
their problems.
So it's sales techniques.
It is understandingrelationship level sales
(24:28):
techniques.
It is understanding how tocommunicate a bigger problem to
a bigger audience.
Ultimately, I want to fixhealth care, and I believe that
therapists can have a huge rolein that, and doing it as a
one-off is going to take us along, long time.
Doing it as a collector ofhundreds of thousands of
(24:51):
therapists who can take care ofpeople, I think there's
something very powerful in that.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Yeah, that's inspiring too.
I just saw the connection, too,of your purpose of fixing
healthcare and this companySolve company, solve global.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
I have to like slow down, cause I, when I say solve
global, I can't.
I can say it so quickly, peoplecan't hear it.
So I like solve global, causeit's like we're solving this
global healthcare issue and andand truly like.
I love that you're stillworking on the skillset, tim,
because again, I think whenyou're down here looking at
other people's accomplishments,it's easier to not connect with
that.
And it's it's almost like whatyou said, those pieces of advice
(25:24):
you gave to people at that oneto two clinic stages.
You're still living.
You're just living at adifferent level, doing it
differently.
So it's not like you've stoppedlearning.
It's just what the context isis shifted Maybe.
Maybe expanded might be thebetter word than shifted, I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
I've always believed in asking why.
And so, as a practitioner, weask you know, why did the
rotator cuff tear?
Yeah, you know what, who, whoare his friends that didn't come
to bail him out.
And why did that one tear andnot the other one?
You know, and and so, as youask why, you learn a deeper
(25:58):
solution.
You learn deeper answers towhere the problem in the
biomechanical source may be.
It may be that the rotator cufftore, but the biomechanical
problem may be down in the leftankle and and if you don't
understand how to connect things, that's a big issue and so you
apply that.
I apply that same aspect to howto work with people, but also
(26:19):
how to how to work with people,but also how to work with
business, because there areproblems out there and you ask
well, what are they?
You look at healthcare, forexample.
It's a $5 trillion industry.
Why isn't it better?
Why is it costing more everyyear?
And we're not getting a goodreturn on investment because of
(26:42):
walking down the streets ofAmerica, I don't see 10%
healthier people.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Yeah, we're getting sicker.
Costs are going up, we'regetting sicker, although I did
hear yesterday from apractitioner that last year was
the first year thanks to Ozempicand Trizipatide, that it's the
first year where obesityactually started shifting the
other way.
But anyway, I mean to yourpoint, this massive expense that
we have is not, it's notshowing up.
If anything, it's getting worseand we know that the
(27:09):
musculoskeletal people who arelistening, the PTOTs, slps, like
we are the solution.
It's not like, oh, we should bedoctors.
It's like, no, we are thesolution and I love that.
Your passion is helping them atthis stage.
What about this?
Did you ever, tim?
Did you ever have guilt as youwere starting to step into
leadership more?
Did you ever have guilt nottreating or not being over the
(27:30):
team directly as you've gonethrough these different stages?
That's something.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
I know.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
I have had a different.
Okay, so you've had that.
How do you handle the guilt ofbecoming more free in your
business?
Speaker 2 (27:41):
It's a fabulous's.
It's a fabulous question, andit's one I I honestly struggle
with all the time I.
I yeah absolutely, I, I still,you know, I, I, I in in my
garage I have a little workoutarea but I have a table and
stuff because I bring people inand I treat them here because
it's it's easier for me to justto bring them in and treat them.
(28:02):
Um, so I always, I alwayslikened it to a, a smoker.
You know smokers always gotthat little twitch, you know
they, they want to smoke, theywant to have their finger, like
for me for putting my hands onpeople.
For you know, 20, 30 years it'slike I've been a therapist for
almost 40 now you want to dosomething and so I had that
(28:26):
nervous thing that I'd want todo something with my hands.
And for me, when I went back toget my fellowship training, I
got it in clinical, I got it inclinical training.
I didn't go back and get an MBAor you know a different degree.
I went back and got afellowship in in treating
(28:48):
because to me that's where Ifelt like I could help the
business the most.
Number one.
But two is where my passionlied and it kept keeps me
connected to our clinicians,keeps me connected to what we do
as a profession, and so I'venever really left the clinical
(29:09):
side, but you bring up animportant point, like when
you're stepping out of it.
That's challenging and somepeople are ready to be done with
it.
To me, treating was always theeasiest part.
Being an executive is wayharder Way harder.
I do not like sitting.
I don't, you know, it wasalways.
(29:30):
The clinic was just fun for me.
I had a blast in the clinic.
It was chaos, it was, you know,seeing patients and helping
them was always the fun part.
But I also realized that Icould help 15 people today, or I
could help 20 people today, um,but I have 200 people relying
(29:50):
on me for their paycheck.
I have to make better decisionsand it was selfish for me to
see 15 people when I could helppeople.
I could help train therapistswho could do that.
Um, I could still be around todo mentorship and and do
evaluations and stuff with uhtherapists and problem solve and
(30:13):
and treatment plan, um, but todo it and not do my other work.
Uh, which was at the time, wasuh causing problems for the
company.
I was was short-sighting thecompany.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
So, yeah, in short, what I heard you say was yeah,
you still struggle with it, andthe only way you've been able to
work through it is recognizingthat stepping forward into
freedom was actually what wasbetter for all.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
That's so amazing.
I mean, honestly, my mind'skind of blown.
I'm just thinking of all peopleI thought you'd be like.
I mean, honestly, my mind'skind of blown.
I'm just thinking of all peopleI thought you'd be like, oh
well, I struggled with that 20years ago and here's how I did
it.
And it's gone and cause I stillstruggle when I progress in
whatever business I'm doing orwhatever I'm working in on, on
not being in that space.
But it's, I think I will saythis Um, I was listening to a
(31:02):
psychologist who was talkingabout this new diagnosable um
state of mind called the healermindset.
Obviously healthcare providers,but it's not just healthcare
providers who have it.
It's a mindset that they'reusing in psychology to help
treat people, because people whoconsider themselves healers,
they have all these greatqualities and they're very prone
(31:26):
for overwhelm, not taking careof themselves, getting into a
victim mindset about like well,no one's doing as much as I am,
like just every person has anelement of that.
But a healer mindset is likeembodies those qualities in such
a big way that I think there'ssomething really kind of
beautiful for me, honestly, likeit's almost like comforting to
(31:47):
go.
Oh, tim still has elements ofthat in his life.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
It's okay, it's okay, you bring up a great point.
And I struggled with thatmightily as we were growing and
trying to put some structureinto the business.
And, um, we were reading allkinds of different books and
stuff on the subject matter ofhow to get better, and it wasn't
(32:14):
until I said I need help infront of my team and made myself
vulnerable, that they finallygo.
Well, great.
Finally, you asked I was tryingto help them and grow the
business, but I hadn't askedthem for help.
Yeah, and being vulnerable infront of them was a was the
(32:34):
biggest freedom that I got,because they said well, here
here, dumb, dumb, dumb shit,dumb, dumb, dumb shit, don't
worry, you're fine.
Yeah, um, but it, it, it was,yes, we, we we'll fix this.
And we'll fix this they wereready to help.
Yeah, I hadn't asked them andso from then on, I've, I've, it
(32:56):
was just, it's a.
It's incredibly liberating tofind experts, people, people and
say I need help with this, Ineed help with this, and whether
it's my own team or outsideresources, once I got over that
hump, man, that was liberatingand freedom squared.
(33:18):
It was monumental for me.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Tim, I can't thank you enough for sharing that, and
it's so powerful.
You know, this whole shift inthe show is all about, like I
said to you earlier, abouthelping people really achieve
freedom and not just have it bea tagline.
And so I've learned so much inthese new episodes and you you
identified what I am going totell people is the single
greatest tip of becoming free,which is finally being
(33:47):
vulnerable enough to ask forhelp.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Man, it's such a simple thing.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
But man do we know it's the strongest thing.
It's the strongest thing to bevulnerable.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
And in Brene Brown other leaders are saying that
when leaders can showvulnerability, it shows
connection, it creates cultureand all the things that we're
trying to achieve.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Um, so okay.
Well, tim, I think you just hitlike a major, a major clip that
we're going to use in socialmedia over and over again.
That was huge, my.
We're going to shift now intothis theme of like how
technologies and movements inour industry are there to help
free us up this AI versus VApiece.
In your case.
Let's start with AI.
I want to hear more about howSolve Global and artificial
(34:26):
intelligence work together tohelp create freedom for this new
model and your patients and thewhole thing.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Sure.
So there's a big aspect ofhealthcare.
We have tests.
We have all kinds of differenttests to tell us, you know, if
you're diabetic.
We have blood tests.
We have different things totest for heart, heart disease.
(34:53):
We have different tests for allkinds of things.
So if I stand up in front of agroup of therapists and say what
is the test to tell me whatrisk you have for a
musculoskeletal condition, mosttherapists would not have a clue
(35:13):
and the answer is it's acomfort and performance survey
is what it is.
It's.
You know, how are you doing?
And then we have a thing thatis research-based, that has
different questions, that we askthat determine the individual
risk index, and then that iscompiled into a through
(35:35):
predictive analytics, and thatinto an index for the company,
an index for the company, so weknow where their risk is.
And that risk is very easily totranslate into dollars and very
easy to translate into whathappens to these employees.
We know, for instance, I justhad someone reach out and said
(36:00):
hey, 50% of my injuries happenin the first 30 days of
employment.
Oh wow, large company and I'mgoing.
Okay.
Now we could say, oh, thesepeople are coming over and
they're faking it, but when youboil it down, it's not that at
all, because there's beenstudies in the military that you
(36:22):
know.
We have all these people cominginto boot camp that are putting
on packs, starting to run,starting to do all this stuff,
and they develop musculoskeletalinjuries because they're
ramping up.
And, just like the military, itdoesn't behoove them to injure
people.
They need people who are readyfor for combat right, combat
(36:45):
ready is the is the new phrasethey want to have.
And employees need to be, youknow, like, like the
firefighters, fit for fire.
Are they ready to go intoharm's way?
Um, in, in and take, not onlytake care of themselves, but do
their job.
And so these employees that arecoming in, what does a company
(37:08):
do in the first 30 days whenthey give them a repetitive
physical task?
Are they doing something tohelp ramp these people up?
Just like you would an athlete,just like you would someone
returning to sport probably aninjury, it's no different.
These people are doing physicalwork.
How are we preparing them forthat?
(37:30):
So when we look at it, say allright, I can't take a thousand
people and have them do amarching test.
You know that's not going towork.
That's not going to work, but Ihave to use technology and AI
type things to find out wherethese people are and then
intervene, whether it's anindividual basis or our data
(37:50):
will let us know that.
Hey, the third shift working onthis machine, these 10 people
are having problems with theirright shoulders.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
So does AI analyze all this data and tell you those
elements like this is whereyou're weak, this is where in
your because that one guy knew,hey, the first 30 days, this is
where so many percent of myinjuries occur.
Ai is taking those surveys,analyzing all the data and
saying here's the risk areas orhere's the things that need to
be worked on to prevent that.
Yeah, I wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
I mean, I wouldn't say it's true AI.
It's more predictive analytics,but there's AI-generated things
within it.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Oh, I see.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
And we use a lot of AI in our messaging in terms of
how we are trying to connectwith folks.
So I think there's a lot ofthings there as well.
I will say that I am not themost up on AI guy that's out
(38:47):
there either.
You know, I'm not of that agethat is totally into it and not
like my kids are.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
You've got this company that's leveraging this
AI-assisted analytics piece andmost people I've interviewed so
far might have like a note takeror chat GPT as like an email
cleaner, but, like most peopleso far in this episode this is
my fifth episode I filmed todayMost people so far don't have
this groundbreaking likeknowledge of AI, so I don't
think you're as far out as youthink, but if, if anything,
(39:13):
you're probably more advancedbecause you are using this in
this new model of business foranalytical reasons, which is so
amazing.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Yeah, I do like those , uh, those note takers.
I got a fathom or whatever youwant to call them.
You know the different onesthat are out there.
Man, does that make, uh, um,you know, synthesizing a
hour-long conversation to go oh,here's the things I need to do?
And to me, when you talk aboutfreedom, freedom is, and if that
(39:43):
can do that work and condenseit down and give me my next
steps or something I candelegate, that's time, that's
freedom.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
Yeah, that makes total sense, so that's neat that
you have some experience there.
Spooner Physical Therapy isn'tleveraging any specific AI
products at this point.
Is it Like any industry-wideones, or is it more of these
smaller ones that we're talkingabout?
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Yeah, I would say there's some things on the
business intelligence thatthey're looking to use.
I wouldn't say we recently havechanged practice management
software and so we're gettinginto their business analytics
and business intelligence stuffthere.
So it's coming Um research anddevelopment.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Research and development You're looking into
some things that are going to bebig, and I know I won't say
anything on who, but I rememberthere was at one point you were
looking at some AI solutions aswell on the back office end.
So there's, you guys are inthere.
I think that's a common theme.
I'm finding, tim is, a lot ofguys and girls are in the early
stages of just seeing what's outthere for healthcare businesses
.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Yeah, when I look at it to me it's how can I take my
people that work for us, thatare helping us take care of
people and free up routine,mundane tasks?
Speaker 1 (41:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
And whether that is in RCM, whether that is in just
front office and being able todo things with helping patients
schedule easier or verifyinsurance things that could be
done on an automated basis ifthe industry was a little bit
more efficient.
But I want my people to operateat their highest level.
(41:27):
I want my therapist to havetime to be able to think so that
they can treat complex patientsthat are walking through the
door.
And what can I do to free uptheir time of documentation and
take away some of these thingsthat are not having a therapist
with a doctorate level education, you know mess with, you know
(41:49):
stupid insurance forms, you knowthis stuff needs to go away.
Amen.
This is not operating at ourhighest level.
So you know we need to dothings that you know we need
people to operate at a much,much higher level, and when they
do that, to me it's like I getto help people be their most
(42:14):
successful, that they are andthey get to grow, and so that's
the fun part for me.
I'm in the, I'm in the processof helping people grow and
helping them, um, get to theirnext level.
Cause if they come and take myjob, that's great.
Cause I've got a bigger problemI want to go solve.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Yeah, you're, you're.
You're clearly choosing withyour passion and your purpose to
keep going up as far as you canto help solve healthcare, so
like when someone replaces whatyou're doing you've helped them
for one and then they're helpingyou solve the bigger issue.
So I love that part and I likethat you went to the human side
of things, tim, because that's anice transition over to the
virtual assistant side, now thatwe have an idea of how you use
(42:57):
AI.
Are you currently working withany virtual assistants?
The second fastest growingtrend?
Speaker 2 (43:02):
We are not working with any virtual assistants at
this time.
What we've noticed is that overthe last 10 years, let's say,
the people are shifting how theywant to engage with healthcare.
Before it's like they got tocome up, they want to talk to
(43:22):
some individual, but now we'renoticing that there's a
significant population thatwants to schedule on their own.
They want to fill out theirthings online, so they want
those automated tools that theycan do on their own time to make
it efficient for when they comeinto a clinic.
To make it efficient for whenthey come into a clinic.
(43:44):
I think it's, you know, somepatients.
I don't think they want to bein the clinic any longer than
they have to yeah.
And they don't want to be.
They don't want to be inundatedwith repetitive paperwork,
which again is a nuisance in ourindustry as well.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
All health care Every time.
I just went to a doctor acouple of weeks ago, I filled
out the same bit of informationon six different pieces of paper
and I'm going.
This is insanity that I'm doingthis.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
And it's a waste of people's time.
We should be better.
So, that being said, we noticethat people are consuming
different.
So we have kiosks, we have waysfor them to sign in online, we
have ways for them to fill outtheir paperwork and do things
that we have ways for them toengage with our therapists via
chat functions and do thingsthat are more efficient for them
(44:31):
.
And the more that ourprofession embraces this, the
more freedom they're going toget back.
And I say that because whatisn't happening right now is
we're stuck in a schedule, we'restuck in a slot, and people are
(44:53):
bound by a slot because that'show we're getting paid right now
.
So it's piecemeal, and we haveto change our thinking into a
value mindset that says ifsomeone does a chat with me and
I engage with them and I providevalue, there's a remuneration
for that.
So when we take care ofemployers, that time is value
(45:19):
and because of that, we're notgetting paid for words in a chat
.
We're getting paid to keep thatperson well, keep that person
healthy, and when we keep thatperson healthy, that saves the
employer money.
It also makes a more productiveand healthy employee.
So it's just moving our mindsetover to this other side to say
(45:42):
how can I use all the thingsthat I know as a therapist and
provide help and make sure thatI'm there when the client, the
employee, needs me?
Speaker 1 (45:54):
I love that.
So, kind of on, the first partof what you were saying about
the VA element is you're saying,hey, it's not that you're using
AI or VAs, you're trying tojust minimize the automation of
either so that people can justdo it themselves, kind of like
the self-expressed checkout lanewhen it comes to the front desk
.
Yep, what are your thoughtsabout companies that use virtual
assistants for any side of thebusiness, like, do you have any
(46:16):
reservations for not usingvirtual assistants?
Speaker 2 (46:21):
I don't.
I mean, there's a certainaspect of the population that
needs help and so I don't knowwhat the backup is on a virtual
assistant when someone you knowhas a frustration or doesn't you
know, it doesn't click, um, butthe models that I've seen, they
, they work pretty well, okay,and I just think, when I'm
(46:44):
treating in multi um, languagebarriers and different things,
that there's some complexitythere.
Uh, and personally, when, whenI opened my first clinic, the
reason I wanted to open it wasto deliver customer service.
And can I deliver customerservice with a VA?
Yes, is it the same as what Iwould want to have?
(47:08):
Well, it depends on how well Inumber one if I hire someone,
how well I train them.
Yeah, because I can train thatVA over time and get them better
and better and better.
But there's a human aspectthere that, as an old school
person, I'm not there yet and Iwould like to pay that person
(47:32):
more because they do such agreat job of being my extender.
But there's things that we haveto decrease where we don't have
to have as many of them, forinstance.
So that's where I think theseother added VA things can help,
just decreasing the load in abusier practice.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
Thank you so much for that answer.
That was such a great response.
I've been like I told youbefore we hit record.
I don't want this thing to be agiant commercial.
I'm really interested in justthese trends and freedom and I
think your point is incrediblyvalid that, like there, it's a
total shift of model to workwith virtual assistants and even
though you guys are, there'snothing against it and you're
even open to some of theseutilizations.
(48:14):
I like your focus, tim of likeno, that person who is at the
desk, whatever point the patienthas a contact with you want it,
you're willing to pay them morebecause here's a person who
like lack of better terms is asalesman.
Like there, there's like humaninteraction, a connecting point
there that is so personal thatlike if, if it ain't broke,
(48:37):
don't fix it, kind of mentality.
If you've got that thing going,why would there be a huge shift
or a need in that space?
Speaker 2 (48:43):
I liken them to a party.
I liken them to a party plannerbecause I always looked at the
back of the clinic where I'mtreating as the party, where
we're having fun and stuff, andif someone calls up to the front
I want them to invite them tothe party.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:57):
You know I don't want to ask them hey, what's your
insurance card?
What do you remember?
Speaker 1 (49:02):
You know I don't, and you want them to understand
what they're saying.
You want to hear clearcommunication too.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
I want them to say you've got a problem, we've got
someone who can help you fix it.
A problem, we've got someonewho can help you fix it.
Welcome to the party.
I want it to be that, becausethat's the atmosphere we try and
create.
We want to have fun in theclinic.
People are coming in in pain.
Their life has been disruptedwith a car accident, their life
has been disrupted with surgeryor something, or they've been
(49:31):
kicked out of their sportbecause they had an injury.
We're here to help restore somenormalcy, but we better have
fun while we're doing it, orthis is a tough gig.
Speaker 1 (49:42):
Man and I think that's why people go.
There's a lot of privatepractitioners who listen to this
, but the PTs who are most ofour audience, the OTs and the
SLPs, that's why we got into it.
It's the human connection andthe fun of it.
I have a lot of fun in mycurrent you know world, for sure
, but I don't know about you,tim, but for me there was a
stage in those earlier stageswhere I was in the party and I
(50:05):
had enough support to where itwasn't all on my shoulders.
It was probably in that stageright before I had a breakdown
where it was like not quite sobig that it needed me to go
aggressively into a new skillset.
But I'm I.
That's what I miss.
I don't miss treating as muchon my end.
Um, I do miss.
I miss the party man.
I miss that fun when everyone'shaving a good day and patients
(50:27):
are getting better and the old,you know crazy guys coming in
with jokes and everyone'slaughing and everyone's working
hard and there's thoseintermittent touching moments of
deep personal interaction thatare moving people forward.
Like there's something aboutthat.
I think that's what I'm hoping,that's why I'm still in it,
because that's what I remembermost and obviously that's what's
driving you is, that's whatwe're protecting.
(50:48):
We say party, but man, it's,it's, it's it, and it's a party
on steroids, because it's alsolife changing.
Speaker 2 (50:54):
Yeah, I mean my patients, my employees, you know
people I work with.
They've become lifelong friends.
They're people I've traveledwith, that we've done all kinds
of things with.
So that's what's made my lifewhat it is.
I I can't ever separate thatout, that those, those people
(51:19):
are, are part of my life.
I I helped them with somethingthey may have.
They may have helped me withsomething.
Speaker 1 (51:24):
Yeah, I love it.
All right, tim, we're going tofinish with a rapid fire
questions.
I've got five locked and loaded.
Are you ready?
Speaker 2 (51:31):
All right, fire locked and loaded.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
Are you ready?
All right, fire.
Okay, top book.
That's blown your mind.
Speaker 2 (51:36):
The Null Asshole Rule .
Speaker 1 (51:39):
Oh, love that.
What's your top time saver hack, professionally or personally?
We had Michelle Bambenekrecently talk about egg timer or
egg cooker.
What's a top time saver hack,either professionally or
personally, for you?
Speaker 2 (51:52):
Touch it once, touch it once.
Brilliant.
What's the top time saver hackeither professionally or
personally.
Speaker 1 (51:55):
For you, touch it once, touch it once, brilliant.
What's the most time-consumingtask that you secretly enjoy?
Speaker 2 (52:00):
I would say mentoring people.
Speaker 1 (52:03):
Oh, love that answer.
What's the latest thing thatyou've delegated?
Speaker 2 (52:08):
Latest thing I've delegated is the relationship
building within one of the D2Ecompanies.
Speaker 1 (52:18):
Love that.
Okay, this is the finalquestion.
It's the easiest one, but it'sthe debate of the season.
Tim, definitively which is itAI or virtual assistants?
Speaker 2 (52:27):
Why do they have to be mutually separated or not
together?
To me, you're going to use themboth for different reasons.
Speaker 1 (52:36):
Beautiful answer.
Speaker 2 (52:39):
Yeah, you're going to use AI, because AI has so many
more components versus just anassistant.
Speaker 1 (52:47):
That was a really cool answer.
So, for those rock stars whoare listening, we're keeping
track.
I'm not filming these episodesin order.
So, seth, who's my creativespecialist and wonderful podcast
editor, for the people who arelistening, we're keeping track.
I'm not filming these episodesin order.
So, seth, who's my creativespecialist and wonderful podcast
editor, for the people who arewatching on youtube, please show
the score and we'll see wherewe are at this stage of ai
versus va.
Um.
Thank you, tim, so much forbeing on on the show.
(53:08):
What a wonderful episode thiswas for me.
I got so much out of it.
I feel super more connected toyou as well, and and we were
already friends and I knowpeople who are listening are
going to want to learn more.
So we'll make sure we put allof the contact information on
your companies and you in thenotes.
We'd love to pass it over toyou for your final thought.
Speaker 2 (53:27):
Number one I appreciate what you're doing of
connecting our profession andyou, um, you know you've
transitioned from ownership, andso being a guest on this is is
fun for me, because I can't dowhat you do, but I I enjoy
bringing value to therapists, um, and I enjoy bringing our
professional value to, to to thecountry and and and beyond, if
(53:52):
we can.
So to me this is a fun way todo it and you know, hopefully I
hear from a bunch of rock starsthat they can find us, and if
you're interested in anythingmore that we're doing, follow us
on social.
We're all over the place withSpooner on Facebook and all of
(54:13):
the others, so follow us andhopefully we'll be in touch soon
.
Thanks.
Speaker 1 (54:17):
Tim, you're amazing man.
Thanks for tuning into theWillpower Podcast.
As always, this is WillHumphries reminding you to lead
with love, live on purpose andnever give up your freedom Until
next time.
Hey, rock stars, I got a riddle.
What do you call a physicaltherapist who almost bankrupted
his company and then turned itinto a 600-employee powerhouse
across two states?
You call him Tim Spooner.
In this episode, Tim is gonnago back behind the curtain on
his journey from treatingfull-time across multiple
clinics to leading Arizona'slargest independent PT group and
(00:22):
launching Solve Global.
That's a tech-powered gamechanger for our industry.
That's transforming corporatehealthcare.
We're going to talk aboutfreedom real freedom, Not the
kind that you post on Instagram,but the kind that comes after
asking for help, hitting rockbottom and then building
something that lasts.
And yeah, we're going to gointo AI and artificial
(00:45):
intelligence and VAs.
Tim shares how predictiveanalysis are helping prevent
injuries before they happen andwhy he still misses the party in
the back of his clinic.
This one's for every clinicowner, every private practice
leader, so that you can have abigger dent in healthcare
without losing your soul.
Let's dive in.
It's almost like a trap, right,it's a trap.
(01:06):
People get passionate abouttreating, but they choose to
become an owner and then theystay in the business because
they're treating and they justburn out.
Tim, thank you so much forbeing on the show as a repeat
guest.
Your last episode did so greatin this new season that we're
doing with AI and VAs andfreedom.
(01:28):
I was so grateful that you werewilling to come back on the
show.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Thank you, Will.
It's a pleasure to be here andI especially like the concept of
exploring what freedom shouldlook like to a therapist.
I looked forward to having thatdiscussion.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Me too.
I just think you and I aresuper connected about the bright
future of our industry, whichwas our last episode.
And yeah, freedom has to be inplay, because I would say that's
probably why a lot of peoplearen't in our profession.
That used to be, or evenconsidering.
Maybe that's not why I shouldjoin the profession.
But let's talk about you, Tellus about your businesses.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Sure, well, first of all, I'm the CEO of Spooner
Therapy.
Spooner has been around for 35years now and we have 27
locations in Arizona and two inTexas and we have roughly 600
plus employees and we havespecialists of basically any
(02:29):
type of specialist you can thinkof in therapy, from hand to
women's health, to breast cancer, to neuroimpedes and especially
we emphasize sports andorthopedics.
So there's not anything reallythat we can't take care of and
(02:49):
we have a lot of experienceamongst our 160 plus therapists.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
That's amazing.
Are you the largest in Arizona,the privately held in Arizona?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
I believe so.
I'm not sure, I believe so, I'mnot sure.
I don't think there's any oneof our size left that hasn't
been acquired by private equityand or a strategic.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Yeah, it's interesting because at least
that's what I've been tellingpeople.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
I believe that's true .
I know there's some up andcomers that are now getting into
7 and 10 sites, which isawesome.
I mean, as a proponent of theprofession and a proponent of
people who have, you know,worked with us and now own their
own clinic and stuff, to methat's great for the profession
that we grow as independentpractitioners but we continue to
collaborate, which I think isreally key practitioners, but we
(03:46):
continue to collaborate, whichI think is really key.
Um, for instance, this week, Iuh I was uh involved with a
couple other therapists and andwe went down and met with a
state senator.
Um, if you, if you notice that,uh, or if you recall that
recently, utah passed a, a billto promote physical therapists
as primary care musculoskeletalproviders and we are looking to
(04:12):
get a similar bill sponsoredhere in Arizona.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
If freedom had a love language, it'd be delegation.
So if you're tired of wearingall the hats the CEO hat, the
insurance hat, the why am Idoing payroll at midnight hat
it's time to get help.
Book a free discovery call atvirtualrockstarcom and let's
show you how hiring a virtualassistant can finally free you
(04:37):
up.
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Owners with their ideal virtualrockstar assistance.
Don't miss out on the secondfastest growing trend in
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Remember, you deserve abusiness that gives more than it
takes.
Remember, back in the day,talking about collaboration with
(04:58):
what would be consideredcompetitors, you and Mike Bastin
the great Mike Bastin a goodguy, he used to own Foothills
before he exited and, man, whata great collaboration that you
guys had in helping the ArizonaState private practice section.
So it's really cool to see howyou've done that.
But that's not your onlycompany either.
Tell us about your othercompany.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
So I'm also the CEO of Salt Global, which is a
tech-enabled human maintenanceorganization, and what that
means in just simple speak isthat we work directly with
employers to help them withtheir mus the risk in an
employee population, and then goand intervene.
So we're working upstream fromwhat we would normally see in an
(05:41):
outpatient clinic, and, as atherapist, to me it's like the
(06:07):
embodiment of why a lot of usget in is to prevent a lot of
injuries, but catching themearly and being able to help
them is is a is just super fun.
And then what it does, though,is give our practitioners who
are doing it tremendous freedom,because they are extremely
autonomous, working with anemployer and taking care of
1,000 people and if you told meI'm going to take care of 1,000
(06:30):
people in an outpatient clinictoday- oh they'd jump off a
bridge.
I don't know how I would do that, but if I have technology that
says, hey, of these 1,000 people, you should touch base with
these 15 today and maybe mayhave some type of communication
with these other 10.
And so I can keep in contact.
(06:51):
I can still use my hands-onskills, but I can have an
extremely positive interactionwith an employee base for a
company, which helps the company.
It helps that individual, thatemployee, have access to
physical therapy services and bydoing that we help them feel
(07:15):
and move better and ultimatelyit lowers health care costs,
because of the fact that 80% ofmusculoskeletal things should be
taken care of by a conservativeprimary care provider, and
that's what we do.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Yeah, rock stars.
I really can't emphasize enoughhow big this concept is that
Tim is developing, and formultiple reasons.
You know the vision of theprofession being doctors in the
community.
That's what this is.
It's a different, it's acompletely different model
because the PTs here are thedoctors in the communities over
these companies, and there's somuch to that because it's more
(07:52):
profitable for the businessowners and the PTs can make more
money and have more freedom.
And we're doctors and I mean,like, think about how it affects
the population, the industryand the individual therapist.
It's.
This is a game changing businessthat you have and I get nothing
for saying this.
Let's be clear, Cause it soundslike I'm selling it already,
but I'm just super passionateabout anything that's pushing
our profession forward, and inthis case I just want to
(08:14):
highlight rock stars as well.
That Tim and I are having thisconversation while he is at his
cabin in the mountains, not onlylike preserving life for his
family, but also like you're,seeing clients up there, like
you're.
You have, because of the waythat you've created Spooner
Physical Therapy, the corebusiness you have.
What did you do with your timeand your profits?
You're you're helping morepeople and moving the profession
(08:37):
forward.
It's not like you're laying onthe beach 24 seven.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
And and it's and we have, we have, uh, we take care
of firefighters across theArizona landscape and we take
care of two districts that areup here, the Pinetop and the
Timber Mesa District up here and, as such, I get to stop in, see
them, talk with them,strategize on how we can help
keep our first respondershealthy and safe.
(09:02):
First responders healthy andsafe and what we call you know
ready.
You know we want to help themfrom hire to retire and beyond,
and when we think of that, wewant to make sure that they are
ready and fit for fire.
You know, are they fit for fire?
(09:23):
You know, are they fit for duty?
And that is a huge, huge thingbecause there's, they're.
Being healthy is a is a safetything, and you know, if they
have to run into a burningbuilding, um, if they can't do
something that could put notonly themselves but others in
jeopardy, and so it's, it's,it's fun for us to care of them
(09:45):
and really hear what they need.
And I'll just tell you that itbroke my heart that I talked
with one last week and he said,yeah, I just don't like going to
XYZ place because they treat melike a 75-year-old.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
A physical therapy place he's going to yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Yeah, and this is a 40 year old athlete, you know
that has to do physical things.
So we, you know we have to makesure that we are meeting him
and meeting the demands of hisjob where he's at.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Well, one thing that you mentioned thank you, tim,
for sharing all that.
I think one thing that youmentioned that I'll dig into
later is how AI plays into that,because you mentioned that
artificial intelligence isleveraged, so placeholder rock
stars, as you're listening, thatlater we're going to hit on
this AI VA debate that we'rehaving and right now, tim, I
think, as people are listeningto you especially any private
practice owners they're probablyfeeling a little disconnected
(10:42):
because they're like, wow, lookwhat Tim's doing.
I could never do that.
Share with me what, share withthe audience what you're talking
to me about one of thosemoments when you really were
struggling in your business, andhow and why you were struggling
and what you ended up doingabout it to help you kind of get
to where you are now.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Well, before we go there, if you, if you don't mind
, let me you know.
For those who are feeling likethey want to do something in
this space, I talk withtherapists literally all over
the country on a weekly basisand what I ask them is do you
want to turn your relationshipsinto revenue?
And that's essentially what wedo.
(11:19):
So their relationships, they'retaking care of their community,
they're seeing patients andundoubtedly, some of them may be
business owners, and there isnot a business owner that I know
of in the United States that isnot being affected by health
care costs and you have asolution for them.
(11:39):
And so I help them understandhow to have those conversations,
but also how to implement asolution, a direct-to-employer
solution, such as Salt Global.
And so it's fun for me to helpsomebody in Kansas City, to help
somebody in Texas, to helpsomebody you know in Minnesota.
You know we're in multiplestates now and it's what are we
(12:01):
doing?
Well, we get to do what we wentto school to do, which is help
people, but now I'm getting somefreedom from the nickel and
diming of the insurance worldand I'm having a direct
conversation with an employerwho values what I can provide,
and it's not the same as puttinga PT on site Right, because
(12:24):
putting a PT on site withouttechnology and without
understanding the risk of wherethe risk is in that employee
population, you're going totreat the loudest hangnail and
that's not really helpful to theemployer.
You provided some access butyou didn't take care of, you
left a lot of chips on the tableis what I would say.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Very powerful stuff.
Thank you, tim, I appreciatethat.
And actually, before we evenget to that breaking point and
how you pivoted into thisfreedom, I love that you said
that because you highlight thereal suppressive causes as to
why many private practice ownersnot just PTs, but healthcare
providers in general arestruggling with their freedom.
Owners, not just PTs, buthealthcare providers in general,
are struggling with theirfreedom.
So, from from from, before weget to the whole, like when did
(13:08):
you pivot, why did you choosethis path and why do you keep
choosing it as you scale?
Many people like you mentionedsmaller than you tap out and
sell.
Why did you choose and why doyou keep choosing?
Speaker 2 (13:21):
What's your purpose and passion here?
Yeah, you, you mentioned, uh,you know, getting together with
Mike Bastin and we formed theArizona Rehab Alliance and we
had we had several privatepractice members in Arizona that
were, that were part of that,and I learned a ton from that,
and what I learned most was thatwe need to work and collaborate
(13:44):
more as a profession versusworking in isolation, and that
the abundance of of patiencemeans that the other practice
owners aren't my competition.
My competition is what limits myability to get paid.
And so, as we're going throughthat, I kept noticing that my
(14:07):
healthcare costs for my owncompany I was in a fully insured
program at that time keptrising up at a 10 to 15% every
annual rate, and I knowtherapists that it's risen as
high as 30 to 40%, that it'srisen as high as 30 to 40
(14:30):
percent.
Uh, you know, I know annualjump.
And at the same time, the samecompany that I was paying those
premiums to was lowering my re,lowering my reimbursement.
So I noticed this huge spreadand I said this seems wrong.
And so I took it upon myselfover the last 10, 11 years to
really educate myself on healthcare, on what the insurance
industry looks like and to dwelldeep into that, to say number
(14:52):
one how can I fix my own problemin my company?
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
And then second, how can I play in that space?
Because I feel like I havesomething valuable to provide
the community, but I want to doit on a scale basis.
I want to be able to help morepeople and that's what led me
down the path ofdirect-to-employer and the
self-global solution.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Got it so very passionate about helping that
industry drives you forward.
So let's now hear about a timethat you didn't have it all
figured out.
Let's go back to a time.
What?
Was there?
A stage of your business thatmaybe you felt the stress and
overwhelm and recognized somekey things there?
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yeah, I'll name a couple of them, and one of them
was we just moved.
We just gone to four clinics.
We were jumping from two to fourmillion annual revenue and
getting ready to probably doublethat again, and I realized my
skill set as a leader weren'tthere, and so I enrolled myself
in a it was called tech backthen, it's called Vistage now,
(15:56):
which is executive trainingleadership, and it was very
helpful for me to meet withother business owners who
essentially acted as my boardand they held me accountable to
running a business and it wasinstrumental in my development,
(16:19):
and we'd bring in expertspeakers on everything from of
business, how to do a strategyand do some strategic planning
things that were not common orvery easy for me to do because
I'd never been fully trained inthem, and so I learned from
(16:42):
people who are running three$400 million businesses and they
would come with me once a monthand they would poke me in the
chest and say how's yourbusiness?
And everything from how youintroduce yourself to how you
run a business, to understandingwhat cash is in the business.
(17:06):
So at this same time, we wererapidly expanding and going from
four to eight clinics and wewere busy.
Things were.
You know we're seeing a lot ofpatients, but I made a couple
mistakes, and my mistake was Ioutgrew my cash.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
We were busy in the clinic.
You didn't have enough money.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
I had zero cash.
And when I did that uh, again,this board was very helpful to
me they peppered me in the chestand said look, you know,
without cash you have nobusiness.
And I said, no, but look at allthese people in my clinic that
you know.
Look at, look at all thispeople in my clinic, look at all
this AR.
And they couldn't believe thestate of my AR, which was a
whole other scenario, because,yes, we were busy, but we
(17:56):
weren't collecting the money andI had to pay people every two
weeks.
So it was a rude awakening.
After 15 years of being inbusiness, I essentially bankrupt
myself and I had to go into myown pockets to keep the company
going.
But I believed in what we weredoing, and so I made a few
strategic changes there.
One of them was bringing onexperts in the arenas with which
(18:22):
they function so operations,people, accounting, hr these
were hired?
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Were these employees that you hired?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Yep, okay, I made that decision to move that route
because I realized that theaspect of being a good
practitioner and just having anoffice manager was only going to
take us so far.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
We needed more structure, we needed more
systems in order to scale andstandardize a few things, and
that was a key point.
And so when we did that, youknow, in the beginning it was
just myself and another personwho wore several hats apiece,
and meanwhile I'm still treatingfull-time too.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
You're treating full-time, with all this going
on, yeah, and a bankruptedcompany.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
So I would see patients, I would go home and
see my kids and see my familyfor a couple hours and I would
come back and do accounting atnight.
I mean, it was not the best oftimes, let's put it that way,
but when you dig in and you gothrough those tough things, I
think you really learn yourbusiness.
Number one, and the reason thatyou got into private practice
(19:37):
comes to bear.
I didn't get into privatepractice to make a million
dollars.
I get into private practice tobe creative, have freedom that
you mentioned earlier but alsoto take care of people, and so
we were taking care of people.
I just need to figure out someof these other things so that we
could continue to do that.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Man, I feel more connected to you.
I wanted you to share that sothat the audience could be more
connected, because you and I arebuddies.
But at the same time, I neverknew that and it's something
that is so paralleled in myjourney.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
I don't go around saying how I bankrupt myself.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
very often but what's ironic about that, tim, is that
I think people who arelistening are starting to really
pay attention, because when wesee what you've accomplished and
this is true for all verysuccessful people it can feel
out of reach in terms of like,well, that's great for them, but
I'm not that guy.
So when when someone says, wow,he went from that to that, then
it becomes inspiring.
(20:31):
It's like, well, maybe I can domore.
And I would say you know whatyou said there was so inspiring
because it's so relatable tothis the fact that most people
probably listening who'vestruggled in their companies
have been in that position where, like, cash stinks or is
non-existent, but business is sooverwhelming that they're
stressed on both ends in a waythat you would think would line
(20:52):
up.
So, as people are listening,what would you, what advice
would you give to to youngprivate practice owners, um, in
maybe one to two location stagesLike, what, what would be the
two or three freedom creatingtips that you would give them?
Speaker 2 (21:08):
There's gotta be some standardization and some
structure.
There's there's that old adageof structures, you know, set you
free.
That was especially true for meIn the.
The person that are hired todeal with me today is, you know,
provided structure and providedsystems.
They basically downloaded a lotof the ideas and stuff I had in
(21:31):
my head, but put structure onthem so everyone could
understand them and we couldhave systems and things in place
, and so I think it's reallyimportant to look at that and
understand.
Before anyone goes into privatepractice, I always ask them
like, why are you doing it?
What is your passion point?
(21:51):
And because there will come atime when things happen and
you're going to have to rely on.
That's why I'm doing it.
Because if you go into it forfinancial reasons, um, there'll
be a time when it may not workout, and if that's the only
reason you're into it, then it'sit.
(22:12):
It becomes, I think, a shallowshell thing.
Your passion has to besomething, um, I think, deeper
than a material object.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah, it's almost like a trap.
Right, it's a trap.
People get passionate abouttreating, but they choose to
become an owner and then theystay in the business because
they're treating and they justburn out?
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Yeah, and I think the key things I would tell them is
that surround yourself and findgreat mentors, people that you
trust that will give you honestopinions, whether that is, you
know, an executive traininggroup, someone outside of the
business.
So when you're the leader inyour business, there's certain
(22:51):
things you can't talk to yourother employees about, and this
is why it's important to haveother collaborative leaders that
you can talk to and not bethreatened by them.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
That's amazing.
I love that advice.
Anything else you would add forpeople for advice?
Speaker 2 (23:07):
The other thing is that as your business grows,
your skill set will have toimprove in different areas, and
whether that is you know.
For me, I mean, when I startedthe business, we didn't have
computers.
Let's put it in perspective, itwas a pegboard accounting
system, you know.
So all through that, I had toupgrade my computer skills,
(23:30):
spreadsheets.
Understanding all of this thing, you have to continually adapt
and grow.
Um, you have to grow as a, as acommunicator, as a, as a leader
.
It's one thing to be in frontof 10 people, it's different to
be in front of 100.
And it's certainly different tobe in front of 600.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Got it.
So here's my question to youYou're at this stage.
Where are you still learningthese things that you talk about
?
You have to increase your skill.
Are you still increasing yourskill, or have you hit a skill
level where maybe the focusisn't on improving the skill as
much as it's expanding whatyou're doing Like?
I'm curious, at your stage,what that looks like.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Now there's always something to learn.
I would say, right now, theskills that I'm passionate about
working on are how I can relatebetter to CEOs so I can solve
their problems.
So it's sales techniques.
It is understandingrelationship level sales
(24:28):
techniques.
It is understanding how tocommunicate a bigger problem to
a bigger audience.
Ultimately, I want to fixhealth care, and I believe that
therapists can have a huge rolein that, and doing it as a
one-off is going to take us along, long time.
Doing it as a collector ofhundreds of thousands of
(24:51):
therapists who can take care ofpeople, I think there's
something very powerful in that.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Yeah, that's inspiring too.
I just saw the connection, too,of your purpose of fixing
healthcare and this companySolve company, solve global.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
I have to like slow down, cause I, when I say solve
global, I can't.
I can say it so quickly, peoplecan't hear it.
So I like solve global, causeit's like we're solving this
global healthcare issue and andand truly like.
I love that you're stillworking on the skillset, tim,
because again, I think whenyou're down here looking at
other people's accomplishments,it's easier to not connect with
that.
And it's it's almost like whatyou said, those pieces of advice
(25:24):
you gave to people at that oneto two clinic stages.
You're still living.
You're just living at adifferent level, doing it
differently.
So it's not like you've stoppedlearning.
It's just what the context isis shifted Maybe.
Maybe expanded might be thebetter word than shifted, I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
I've always believed in asking why.
And so, as a practitioner, weask you know, why did the
rotator cuff tear?
Yeah, you know what, who, whoare his friends that didn't come
to bail him out.
And why did that one tear andnot the other one?
You know, and and so, as youask why, you learn a deeper
(25:58):
solution.
You learn deeper answers towhere the problem in the
biomechanical source may be.
It may be that the rotator cufftore, but the biomechanical
problem may be down in the leftankle and and if you don't
understand how to connect things, that's a big issue and so you
apply that.
I apply that same aspect to howto work with people, but also
(26:19):
how to how to work with people,but also how to work with
business, because there areproblems out there and you ask
well, what are they?
You look at healthcare, forexample.
It's a $5 trillion industry.
Why isn't it better?
Why is it costing more everyyear?
And we're not getting a goodreturn on investment because of
(26:42):
walking down the streets ofAmerica, I don't see 10%
healthier people.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Yeah, we're getting sicker.
Costs are going up, we'regetting sicker, although I did
hear yesterday from apractitioner that last year was
the first year thanks to Ozempicand Trizipatide, that it's the
first year where obesityactually started shifting the
other way.
But anyway, I mean to yourpoint, this massive expense that
we have is not, it's notshowing up.
If anything, it's getting worseand we know that the
(27:09):
musculoskeletal people who arelistening, the PTOTs, slps, like
we are the solution.
It's not like, oh, we should bedoctors.
It's like, no, we are thesolution and I love that.
Your passion is helping them atthis stage.
What about this?
Did you ever, tim?
Did you ever have guilt as youwere starting to step into
leadership more?
Did you ever have guilt nottreating or not being over the
(27:30):
team directly as you've gonethrough these different stages?
That's something.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
I know.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
I have had a different.
Okay, so you've had that.
How do you handle the guilt ofbecoming more free in your
business?
Speaker 2 (27:41):
It's a fabulous's.
It's a fabulous question, andit's one I I honestly struggle
with all the time I.
I yeah absolutely, I, I still,you know, I, I, I in in my
garage I have a little workoutarea but I have a table and
stuff because I bring people inand I treat them here because
it's it's easier for me to justto bring them in and treat them.
(28:02):
Um, so I always, I alwayslikened it to a, a smoker.
You know smokers always gotthat little twitch, you know
they, they want to smoke, theywant to have their finger, like
for me for putting my hands onpeople.
For you know, 20, 30 years it'slike I've been a therapist for
almost 40 now you want to dosomething and so I had that
(28:26):
nervous thing that I'd want todo something with my hands.
And for me, when I went back toget my fellowship training, I
got it in clinical, I got it inclinical training.
I didn't go back and get an MBAor you know a different degree.
I went back and got afellowship in in treating
(28:48):
because to me that's where Ifelt like I could help the
business the most.
Number one.
But two is where my passionlied and it kept keeps me
connected to our clinicians,keeps me connected to what we do
as a profession, and so I'venever really left the clinical
(29:09):
side, but you bring up animportant point, like when
you're stepping out of it.
That's challenging and somepeople are ready to be done with
it.
To me, treating was always theeasiest part.
Being an executive is wayharder Way harder.
I do not like sitting.
I don't, you know, it wasalways.
(29:30):
The clinic was just fun for me.
I had a blast in the clinic.
It was chaos, it was, you know,seeing patients and helping
them was always the fun part.
But I also realized that Icould help 15 people today, or I
could help 20 people today, um,but I have 200 people relying
(29:50):
on me for their paycheck.
I have to make better decisionsand it was selfish for me to
see 15 people when I could helppeople.
I could help train therapistswho could do that.
Um, I could still be around todo mentorship and and do
evaluations and stuff with uhtherapists and problem solve and
(30:13):
and treatment plan, um, but todo it and not do my other work.
Uh, which was at the time, wasuh causing problems for the
company.
I was was short-sighting thecompany.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
So, yeah, in short, what I heard you say was yeah,
you still struggle with it, andthe only way you've been able to
work through it is recognizingthat stepping forward into
freedom was actually what wasbetter for all.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
That's so amazing.
I mean, honestly, my mind'skind of blown.
I'm just thinking of all peopleI thought you'd be like.
I mean, honestly, my mind'skind of blown.
I'm just thinking of all peopleI thought you'd be like, oh
well, I struggled with that 20years ago and here's how I did
it.
And it's gone and cause I stillstruggle when I progress in
whatever business I'm doing orwhatever I'm working in on, on
not being in that space.
But it's, I think I will saythis Um, I was listening to a
(31:02):
psychologist who was talkingabout this new diagnosable um
state of mind called the healermindset.
Obviously healthcare providers,but it's not just healthcare
providers who have it.
It's a mindset that they'reusing in psychology to help
treat people, because people whoconsider themselves healers,
they have all these greatqualities and they're very prone
(31:26):
for overwhelm, not taking careof themselves, getting into a
victim mindset about like well,no one's doing as much as I am,
like just every person has anelement of that.
But a healer mindset is likeembodies those qualities in such
a big way that I think there'ssomething really kind of
beautiful for me, honestly, likeit's almost like comforting to
(31:47):
go.
Oh, tim still has elements ofthat in his life.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
It's okay, it's okay, you bring up a great point.
And I struggled with thatmightily as we were growing and
trying to put some structureinto the business.
And, um, we were reading allkinds of different books and
stuff on the subject matter ofhow to get better, and it wasn't
(32:14):
until I said I need help infront of my team and made myself
vulnerable, that they finallygo.
Well, great.
Finally, you asked I was tryingto help them and grow the
business, but I hadn't askedthem for help.
Yeah, and being vulnerable infront of them was a was the
(32:34):
biggest freedom that I got,because they said well, here
here, dumb, dumb, dumb shit,dumb, dumb, dumb shit, don't
worry, you're fine.
Yeah, um, but it, it, it was,yes, we, we we'll fix this.
And we'll fix this they wereready to help.
Yeah, I hadn't asked them andso from then on, I've, I've, it
(32:56):
was just, it's a.
It's incredibly liberating tofind experts, people, people and
say I need help with this, Ineed help with this, and whether
it's my own team or outsideresources, once I got over that
hump, man, that was liberatingand freedom squared.
(33:18):
It was monumental for me.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Tim, I can't thank you enough for sharing that, and
it's so powerful.
You know, this whole shift inthe show is all about, like I
said to you earlier, abouthelping people really achieve
freedom and not just have it bea tagline.
And so I've learned so much inthese new episodes and you you
identified what I am going totell people is the single
greatest tip of becoming free,which is finally being
(33:47):
vulnerable enough to ask forhelp.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Man, it's such a simple thing.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
But man do we know it's the strongest thing.
It's the strongest thing to bevulnerable.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
And in Brene Brown other leaders are saying that
when leaders can showvulnerability, it shows
connection, it creates cultureand all the things that we're
trying to achieve.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Um, so okay.
Well, tim, I think you just hitlike a major, a major clip that
we're going to use in socialmedia over and over again.
That was huge, my.
We're going to shift now intothis theme of like how
technologies and movements inour industry are there to help
free us up this AI versus VApiece.
In your case.
Let's start with AI.
I want to hear more about howSolve Global and artificial
(34:26):
intelligence work together tohelp create freedom for this new
model and your patients and thewhole thing.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Sure.
So there's a big aspect ofhealthcare.
We have tests.
We have all kinds of differenttests to tell us, you know, if
you're diabetic.
We have blood tests.
We have different things totest for heart, heart disease.
(34:53):
We have different tests for allkinds of things.
So if I stand up in front of agroup of therapists and say what
is the test to tell me whatrisk you have for a
musculoskeletal condition, mosttherapists would not have a clue
(35:13):
and the answer is it's acomfort and performance survey
is what it is.
It's.
You know, how are you doing?
And then we have a thing thatis research-based, that has
different questions, that we askthat determine the individual
risk index, and then that iscompiled into a through
(35:35):
predictive analytics, and thatinto an index for the company,
an index for the company, so weknow where their risk is.
And that risk is very easily totranslate into dollars and very
easy to translate into whathappens to these employees.
We know, for instance, I justhad someone reach out and said
(36:00):
hey, 50% of my injuries happenin the first 30 days of
employment.
Oh wow, large company and I'mgoing.
Okay.
Now we could say, oh, thesepeople are coming over and
they're faking it, but when youboil it down, it's not that at
all, because there's beenstudies in the military that you
(36:22):
know.
We have all these people cominginto boot camp that are putting
on packs, starting to run,starting to do all this stuff,
and they develop musculoskeletalinjuries because they're
ramping up.
And, just like the military, itdoesn't behoove them to injure
people.
They need people who are readyfor for combat right, combat
(36:45):
ready is the is the new phrasethey want to have.
And employees need to be, youknow, like, like the
firefighters, fit for fire.
Are they ready to go intoharm's way?
Um, in, in and take, not onlytake care of themselves, but do
their job.
And so these employees that arecoming in, what does a company
(37:08):
do in the first 30 days whenthey give them a repetitive
physical task?
Are they doing something tohelp ramp these people up?
Just like you would an athlete,just like you would someone
returning to sport probably aninjury, it's no different.
These people are doing physicalwork.
How are we preparing them forthat?
(37:30):
So when we look at it, say allright, I can't take a thousand
people and have them do amarching test.
You know that's not going towork.
That's not going to work, but Ihave to use technology and AI
type things to find out wherethese people are and then
intervene, whether it's anindividual basis or our data
(37:50):
will let us know that.
Hey, the third shift working onthis machine, these 10 people
are having problems with theirright shoulders.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
So does AI analyze all this data and tell you those
elements like this is whereyou're weak, this is where in
your because that one guy knew,hey, the first 30 days, this is
where so many percent of myinjuries occur.
Ai is taking those surveys,analyzing all the data and
saying here's the risk areas orhere's the things that need to
be worked on to prevent that.
Yeah, I wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
I mean, I wouldn't say it's true AI.
It's more predictive analytics,but there's AI-generated things
within it.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Oh, I see.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
And we use a lot of AI in our messaging in terms of
how we are trying to connectwith folks.
So I think there's a lot ofthings there as well.
I will say that I am not themost up on AI guy that's out
(38:47):
there either.
You know, I'm not of that agethat is totally into it and not
like my kids are.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
You've got this company that's leveraging this
AI-assisted analytics piece andmost people I've interviewed so
far might have like a note takeror chat GPT as like an email
cleaner, but, like most peopleso far in this episode this is
my fifth episode I filmed todayMost people so far don't have
this groundbreaking likeknowledge of AI, so I don't
think you're as far out as youthink, but if, if anything,
(39:13):
you're probably more advancedbecause you are using this in
this new model of business foranalytical reasons, which is so
amazing.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Yeah, I do like those , uh, those note takers.
I got a fathom or whatever youwant to call them.
You know the different onesthat are out there.
Man, does that make, uh, um,you know, synthesizing a
hour-long conversation to go oh,here's the things I need to do?
And to me, when you talk aboutfreedom, freedom is, and if that
(39:43):
can do that work and condenseit down and give me my next
steps or something I candelegate, that's time, that's
freedom.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
Yeah, that makes total sense, so that's neat that
you have some experience there.
Spooner Physical Therapy isn'tleveraging any specific AI
products at this point.
Is it Like any industry-wideones, or is it more of these
smaller ones that we're talkingabout?
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Yeah, I would say there's some things on the
business intelligence thatthey're looking to use.
I wouldn't say we recently havechanged practice management
software and so we're gettinginto their business analytics
and business intelligence stuffthere.
So it's coming Um research anddevelopment.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Research and development You're looking into
some things that are going to bebig, and I know I won't say
anything on who, but I rememberthere was at one point you were
looking at some AI solutions aswell on the back office end.
So there's, you guys are inthere.
I think that's a common theme.
I'm finding, tim is, a lot ofguys and girls are in the early
stages of just seeing what's outthere for healthcare businesses
.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Yeah, when I look at it to me it's how can I take my
people that work for us, thatare helping us take care of
people and free up routine,mundane tasks?
Speaker 1 (41:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
And whether that is in RCM, whether that is in just
front office and being able todo things with helping patients
schedule easier or verifyinsurance things that could be
done on an automated basis ifthe industry was a little bit
more efficient.
But I want my people to operateat their highest level.
(41:27):
I want my therapist to havetime to be able to think so that
they can treat complex patientsthat are walking through the
door.
And what can I do to free uptheir time of documentation and
take away some of these thingsthat are not having a therapist
with a doctorate level education, you know mess with, you know
(41:49):
stupid insurance forms, you knowthis stuff needs to go away.
Amen.
This is not operating at ourhighest level.
So you know we need to dothings that you know we need
people to operate at a much,much higher level, and when they
do that, to me it's like I getto help people be their most
(42:14):
successful, that they are andthey get to grow, and so that's
the fun part for me.
I'm in the, I'm in the processof helping people grow and
helping them, um, get to theirnext level.
Cause if they come and take myjob, that's great.
Cause I've got a bigger problemI want to go solve.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Yeah, you're, you're.
You're clearly choosing withyour passion and your purpose to
keep going up as far as you canto help solve healthcare, so
like when someone replaces whatyou're doing you've helped them
for one and then they're helpingyou solve the bigger issue.
So I love that part and I likethat you went to the human side
of things, tim, because that's anice transition over to the
virtual assistant side, now thatwe have an idea of how you use
(42:57):
AI.
Are you currently working withany virtual assistants?
The second fastest growingtrend?
Speaker 2 (43:02):
We are not working with any virtual assistants at
this time.
What we've noticed is that overthe last 10 years, let's say,
the people are shifting how theywant to engage with healthcare.
Before it's like they got tocome up, they want to talk to
(43:22):
some individual, but now we'renoticing that there's a
significant population thatwants to schedule on their own.
They want to fill out theirthings online, so they want
those automated tools that theycan do on their own time to make
it efficient for when they comeinto a clinic.
To make it efficient for whenthey come into a clinic.
(43:44):
I think it's, you know, somepatients.
I don't think they want to bein the clinic any longer than
they have to yeah.
And they don't want to be.
They don't want to be inundatedwith repetitive paperwork,
which again is a nuisance in ourindustry as well.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
All health care Every time.
I just went to a doctor acouple of weeks ago, I filled
out the same bit of informationon six different pieces of paper
and I'm going.
This is insanity that I'm doingthis.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
And it's a waste of people's time.
We should be better.
So, that being said, we noticethat people are consuming
different.
So we have kiosks, we have waysfor them to sign in online, we
have ways for them to fill outtheir paperwork and do things
that we have ways for them toengage with our therapists via
chat functions and do thingsthat are more efficient for them
(44:31):
.
And the more that ourprofession embraces this, the
more freedom they're going toget back.
And I say that because whatisn't happening right now is
we're stuck in a schedule, we'restuck in a slot, and people are
(44:53):
bound by a slot because that'show we're getting paid right now
.
So it's piecemeal, and we haveto change our thinking into a
value mindset that says ifsomeone does a chat with me and
I engage with them and I providevalue, there's a remuneration
for that.
So when we take care ofemployers, that time is value
(45:19):
and because of that, we're notgetting paid for words in a chat
.
We're getting paid to keep thatperson well, keep that person
healthy, and when we keep thatperson healthy, that saves the
employer money.
It also makes a more productiveand healthy employee.
So it's just moving our mindsetover to this other side to say
(45:42):
how can I use all the thingsthat I know as a therapist and
provide help and make sure thatI'm there when the client, the
employee, needs me?
Speaker 1 (45:54):
I love that.
So, kind of on, the first partof what you were saying about
the VA element is you're saying,hey, it's not that you're using
AI or VAs, you're trying tojust minimize the automation of
either so that people can justdo it themselves, kind of like
the self-expressed checkout lanewhen it comes to the front desk
.
Yep, what are your thoughtsabout companies that use virtual
assistants for any side of thebusiness, like, do you have any
(46:16):
reservations for not usingvirtual assistants?
Speaker 2 (46:21):
I don't.
I mean, there's a certainaspect of the population that
needs help and so I don't knowwhat the backup is on a virtual
assistant when someone you knowhas a frustration or doesn't you
know, it doesn't click, um, butthe models that I've seen, they
, they work pretty well, okay,and I just think, when I'm
(46:44):
treating in multi um, languagebarriers and different things,
that there's some complexitythere.
Uh, and personally, when, whenI opened my first clinic, the
reason I wanted to open it wasto deliver customer service.
And can I deliver customerservice with a VA?
Yes, is it the same as what Iwould want to have?
(47:08):
Well, it depends on how well Inumber one if I hire someone,
how well I train them.
Yeah, because I can train thatVA over time and get them better
and better and better.
But there's a human aspectthere that, as an old school
person, I'm not there yet and Iwould like to pay that person
(47:32):
more because they do such agreat job of being my extender.
But there's things that we haveto decrease where we don't have
to have as many of them, forinstance.
So that's where I think theseother added VA things can help,
just decreasing the load in abusier practice.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
Thank you so much for that answer.
That was such a great response.
I've been like I told youbefore we hit record.
I don't want this thing to be agiant commercial.
I'm really interested in justthese trends and freedom and I
think your point is incrediblyvalid that, like there, it's a
total shift of model to workwith virtual assistants and even
though you guys are, there'snothing against it and you're
even open to some of theseutilizations.
(48:14):
I like your focus, tim of likeno, that person who is at the
desk, whatever point the patienthas a contact with you want it,
you're willing to pay them morebecause here's a person who
like lack of better terms is asalesman.
Like there, there's like humaninteraction, a connecting point
there that is so personal thatlike if, if it ain't broke,
(48:37):
don't fix it, kind of mentality.
If you've got that thing going,why would there be a huge shift
or a need in that space?
Speaker 2 (48:43):
I liken them to a party.
I liken them to a party plannerbecause I always looked at the
back of the clinic where I'mtreating as the party, where
we're having fun and stuff, andif someone calls up to the front
I want them to invite them tothe party.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:57):
You know I don't want to ask them hey, what's your
insurance card?
What do you remember?
Speaker 1 (49:02):
You know I don't, and you want them to understand
what they're saying.
You want to hear clearcommunication too.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
I want them to say you've got a problem, we've got
someone who can help you fix it.
A problem, we've got someonewho can help you fix it.
Welcome to the party.
I want it to be that, becausethat's the atmosphere we try and
create.
We want to have fun in theclinic.
People are coming in in pain.
Their life has been disruptedwith a car accident, their life
has been disrupted with surgeryor something, or they've been
(49:31):
kicked out of their sportbecause they had an injury.
We're here to help restore somenormalcy, but we better have
fun while we're doing it, orthis is a tough gig.
Speaker 1 (49:42):
Man and I think that's why people go.
There's a lot of privatepractitioners who listen to this
, but the PTs who are most ofour audience, the OTs and the
SLPs, that's why we got into it.
It's the human connection andthe fun of it.
I have a lot of fun in mycurrent you know world, for sure
, but I don't know about you,tim, but for me there was a
stage in those earlier stageswhere I was in the party and I
(50:05):
had enough support to where itwasn't all on my shoulders.
It was probably in that stageright before I had a breakdown
where it was like not quite sobig that it needed me to go
aggressively into a new skillset.
But I'm I.
That's what I miss.
I don't miss treating as muchon my end.
Um, I do miss.
I miss the party man.
I miss that fun when everyone'shaving a good day and patients
(50:27):
are getting better and the old,you know crazy guys coming in
with jokes and everyone'slaughing and everyone's working
hard and there's thoseintermittent touching moments of
deep personal interaction thatare moving people forward.
Like there's something aboutthat.
I think that's what I'm hoping,that's why I'm still in it,
because that's what I remembermost and obviously that's what's
driving you is, that's whatwe're protecting.
(50:48):
We say party, but man, it's,it's, it's it, and it's a party
on steroids, because it's alsolife changing.
Speaker 2 (50:54):
Yeah, I mean my patients, my employees, you know
people I work with.
They've become lifelong friends.
They're people I've traveledwith, that we've done all kinds
of things with.
So that's what's made my lifewhat it is.
I I can't ever separate thatout, that those, those people
(51:19):
are, are part of my life.
I I helped them with somethingthey may have.
They may have helped me withsomething.
Speaker 1 (51:24):
Yeah, I love it.
All right, tim, we're going tofinish with a rapid fire
questions.
I've got five locked and loaded.
Are you ready?
Speaker 2 (51:31):
All right, fire locked and loaded.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
Are you ready?
All right, fire.
Okay, top book.
That's blown your mind.
Speaker 2 (51:36):
The Null Asshole Rule .
Speaker 1 (51:39):
Oh, love that.
What's your top time saver hack, professionally or personally?
We had Michelle Bambenekrecently talk about egg timer or
egg cooker.
What's a top time saver hack,either professionally or
personally, for you?
Speaker 2 (51:52):
Touch it once, touch it once.
Brilliant.
What's the top time saver hackeither professionally or
personally.
Speaker 1 (51:55):
For you, touch it once, touch it once, brilliant.
What's the most time-consumingtask that you secretly enjoy?
Speaker 2 (52:00):
I would say mentoring people.
Speaker 1 (52:03):
Oh, love that answer.
What's the latest thing thatyou've delegated?
Speaker 2 (52:08):
Latest thing I've delegated is the relationship
building within one of the D2Ecompanies.
Speaker 1 (52:18):
Love that.
Okay, this is the finalquestion.
It's the easiest one, but it'sthe debate of the season.
Tim, definitively which is itAI or virtual assistants?
Speaker 2 (52:27):
Why do they have to be mutually separated or not
together?
To me, you're going to use themboth for different reasons.
Speaker 1 (52:36):
Beautiful answer.
Speaker 2 (52:39):
Yeah, you're going to use AI, because AI has so many
more components versus just anassistant.
Speaker 1 (52:47):
That was a really cool answer.
So, for those rock stars whoare listening, we're keeping
track.
I'm not filming these episodesin order.
So, seth, who's my creativespecialist and wonderful podcast
editor, for the people who arelistening, we're keeping track.
I'm not filming these episodesin order.
So, seth, who's my creativespecialist and wonderful podcast
editor, for the people who arewatching on youtube, please show
the score and we'll see wherewe are at this stage of ai
versus va.
Um.
Thank you, tim, so much forbeing on on the show.
(53:08):
What a wonderful episode thiswas for me.
I got so much out of it.
I feel super more connected toyou as well, and and we were
already friends and I knowpeople who are listening are
going to want to learn more.
So we'll make sure we put allof the contact information on
your companies and you in thenotes.
We'd love to pass it over toyou for your final thought.
Speaker 2 (53:27):
Number one I appreciate what you're doing of
connecting our profession andyou, um, you know you've
transitioned from ownership, andso being a guest on this is is
fun for me, because I can't dowhat you do, but I I enjoy
bringing value to therapists, um, and I enjoy bringing our
professional value to, to to thecountry and and and beyond, if
(53:52):
we can.
So to me this is a fun way todo it and you know, hopefully I
hear from a bunch of rock starsthat they can find us, and if
you're interested in anythingmore that we're doing, follow us
on social.
We're all over the place withSpooner on Facebook and all of
(54:13):
the others, so follow us andhopefully we'll be in touch soon
.
Thanks.
Speaker 1 (54:17):
Tim, you're amazing man.
Thanks for tuning into theWillpower Podcast.
As always, this is WillHumphries reminding you to lead
with love, live on purpose andnever give up your freedom Until
next time.
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