The Art of the "Commitment" and The Difference of Hiring Vs. Recruiting with Jimmy McKay and Will Humphreys

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Hey Rockstars, today's episode, we're going to

(00:01):
be talking a lot about therecruiting process.
And you're going to get abackstage pass to understand how
owners think and operate interms of attracting the best
talent.
So you're going to learn on yourend how to stand out in a
crowded market, how to createinstant emotional connections
with your clients, and whystorytelling, authenticity, and

(00:22):
clarity are your superpowers.
Jimmy McKay breaks down how tocommunicate with impact, cut
through the noise, and makeyourself unforgettable through
the way that you speak, write,and show up.
And this is a professional radiohost.
This guy knows how tocommunicate.
So if you want to innovate, ifelevate your value, build trust,
and open more opportunities foryourself, this episode is a must

(00:45):
listen.
Let's get into it.

SPEAKER_00 (00:55):
Let's talk podcaster to podcaster.
Yes, do it.
And this didn't this wouldn'thave been a thing to talk about
four years ago, but now lots ofpeople have podcasts, yourself
included, the Will Powerpodcast.
Boom, already 18 seconds in.
We've already got the mention.
Good.
Get out of the way.

SPEAKER_01 (01:11):
I feel like the call to action is already there.
This has been a home run.
No, I agree.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15):
How how much or little do you prepare for an
episode?
Or does it matter what the topicis?
Does it matter who the guest is?
Does it matter?
It matters, it matters to me.

SPEAKER_01 (01:23):
Absolutely.
So it depends on the person.
Absolutely.
There's people like you that Idon't want to prepare.

SPEAKER_02 (01:28):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:29):
If I've got a Jimmy McKay, then and by the way, I
want you on my show.
I think it'd be fantastic.
All right.
I and I think it's one of thosethings where like it's more fun
to get into the moment withpeople who are top of mind
thinkers.
Yeah.
There's also some reallybrilliant people, as you know,
who just need time to prepare.
And those people I like toprepare as a way of helping
bridge that gap.
So I have if I have a guestcoming on with a complex topic I

(01:51):
know nothing about, I'lltypically do more research.
If I've got a Jimmy McKay, oneof my favorite people in the
world who I know can just spewbrilliance, then I don't like to
because it actually ruins it.
So yeah, that's how I that's howI approach these things.

SPEAKER_00 (02:04):
Just so we're clear, I prepared zero for Will today.
And my preparation is like alittle, like you know, it's a
little.
You know, I used to preparecrazy amounts, and then I was
like, okay, I know what I I knowwhat I need enough to get
enough.

SPEAKER_01 (02:18):
And then I think I'd be offended if you prepared.
I think I would literally belike, dude, you know me.
We let's just roll, let's killthis.

SPEAKER_00 (02:23):
I probably should have had like the dates of the
thing we're gonna talk about.
Like, oh, but you um, you I'vegot you, you know the dates.
Like, who cares?
Like, there's my source.
But that's right.
So wait, so how what's new?
Like, I literally just want toask what's new because you're
all you're like me.
You're you're doing whateveryou're doing now is different
than what you were probablydoing six months ago, and you're
probably doing something in thebackground now that's six months

(02:44):
from now.
We'll have another reason totalk.
But what is now?
What is the present?

SPEAKER_01 (02:48):
Yeah, my whole focus now is virtual assistance.
That I don't know if that waslast time we talked or not.

SPEAKER_00 (02:53):
Have we talked about that?
Well, it it was the last time wetalked, and it wasn't really a
thing in the world.
Like it was a thing in theworld, but it wasn't uh as big
of a it wasn't yes, 95.

SPEAKER_01 (03:04):
I had four other companies, no kidding.
I had four other companies, 30second background for people who
are like, Who is this guy?
I am a physical therapist, usedto have a private practice,
really sucked at it, got a lotof coaching, got decent at it,
sold that thing for 7 million in2018, started four other
companies, three of them becamemulti-million, almost had a
heart attack, decided virtualassistance was the future for

(03:27):
me.
And that was just a year and ahalf ago.
And since that time frame, thatis my entire focus is helping
virtual assistants offload everynon-clinical role in a company.
We have over 150 clients acrossthe country, over 250 virtual
assistants working for us.
I'm going to Tokyo in like threeweeks after Christmas to go be

(03:48):
with them for the next year'sstrategy and planning.
It's this thing has totally justtaken off.
It has been by far the coolestthing I've ever done since
becoming a physical therapist.

SPEAKER_00 (03:58):
Virtual rock star.

SPEAKER_01 (03:59):
Virtual rock star.

SPEAKER_00 (04:00):
You're leaving out as your as your uh sidekick
marketing director, you'releaving out a big chunk.
You're sort of stealing a pageout of Bombus or Tom Shoes
because the people you'reemploying to do the work, the
people who are paying you arepaying are getting a deal.
Yes.
So they're they're getting goodwork, it has to be quality

(04:22):
first.
It's gotta be good.
Got it.
They're getting it at a ratethat they're like, oh, oh, okay,
yeah.
No, this is a good rate.
Like it matches it the qualityis better than the rate.
So, like, you're you you'rethere's a good ROI there.

SPEAKER_01 (04:36):
I can tell you the exact numbers if you want, like
it's incredibly useful becausecompared to uh an American
employee making$18 an hour, whatthey would pay to hire one of my
people will save them$20,000 ayear of profit.
So that's the savings.
They hire a virtual assistant,and it's the second fastest
growing trend in healthcare,right?

(04:57):
So what's interesting is virtualassistants are coming in.
Most PTOT SLPs are slow adoptersof technology.
So there many people initiallyare like, I don't know if I want
to get that outsourced feelingto my clients, not realizing how
different this is.
And so here's our big secret,Jimmy.
We pay our VAs a lot more thanmy competitors.

(05:18):
Not only am I specialized,right?
Yeah, so we pay them two tothree times what they would make
for most of so my margin is 10to 15 percent.
I'm telling you on a podcastwhat my profit margin is and
why, because I want to pay thoseVAs as much as possible so that
my partners in America, like theit's almost like an avatar when
that, you know, they get on thethe horse and they bond.

(05:41):
Or like if I can create theyeah, that like the hairs come
together.
Like if I can get the PT owner,OT owner, SLP owner to connect
with their VA and they becomefamily, then like it's yeah, and
they tell me the money savingsis great, but what they love is
not having to work to findsomeone that's offloading them,
and by the way, shows up likeit's life-saving money because

(06:03):
it is it's life-changing moneyto these VAs.

SPEAKER_00 (06:05):
This is what I wanted you to do.
Now go to the other side.
This is where I was sayingyou're sort of taking a page
from Bomba Socks or Tom Shoeswhere it's like buying your
money.
So, what you're really doingalso is it like we love to save
us some money, right?
So I'm getting something good.
The price point is like great,but you're also doing like what
what's the other side of thisequation?

(06:26):
What are you doing to their thevirtual assistants' days and
lives?

SPEAKER_01 (06:31):
It is bringing them out of poverty.
Literally, we have uh the firsttime I hired a virtual
assistant, Jimmy was for my oldbilling company.
Um, I hired a virtual assistantagainst my greater desire
because medical billingcompanies are known as like the
kiss of death when you outsourceoverseas.
But I hired my first girl, uh,let's call her uh Amy.

(06:52):
And do you know why?
Because her name was Amy.
And Amy, and so Amy, I offer herthe job, she cries.
And I'm like, I've never hadanyone cry before.

SPEAKER_00 (07:02):
Not on the way in, usually on the way out, though.

SPEAKER_01 (07:04):
Yes, and usually it's me crying.
So so she she's she and then sheshows up every day like
powerful.
She actually made the Americanswork harder because she was on
the team going, What else can Ido for you?
And so what's interesting is Ifound out later that Amy bought
her family their firstrefrigerator, their first car,

(07:26):
took her dad out of a reallyinefficient nursing home and
took him into home and cared forhim because she was making so
quote so much more money.
And so when my partners, like myfriends started saying, Hey,
will help me do this, and I kepttelling them no until they kept
saying, dude, we're offering youmoney and you're saying no to
us.
That's when everything shifted.
And so when I because recruitingis my favorite thing, that's

(07:48):
what my summit, my I'm comingin-person thing we're gonna talk
about is all about.
Because it's not aboutrecruiting, it's not about
hiring, it's about fulfillingour purpose as leaders to make
more leaders.

SPEAKER_00 (08:03):
So wait, wait, wait, wait.
This is like marketing andsales.
These two things are tiedrecruiting and hiring are like
our yeah, it's biz dev, right?

SPEAKER_01 (08:11):
Biz dev is the new patients and the new hires we
make.

SPEAKER_00 (08:14):
So this is marketing and sales for for building a
then if they're different, whichthey're because they're
different words.
So what is what are the what arethe like what all right, then
just what is recruiting and whatis hiring?

SPEAKER_01 (08:26):
Yeah, so recruiting is just the the general term we
use to describe the entireprocess of getting people to
join our team and to buy in.
But we don't think aboutrecruiting outside of just
bringing people on to hire.
See, hiring is the actual act ofthem coming on, recruiting is
the process of getting theemotional buy-in, and it does

(08:47):
result in hiring, but we recruitpeople all the time who never
join our company.
That's where people screw up,right?
If people who own clinics couldrealize that their job is to
promote their purpose touniversities and to recruit
them, I'm putting air quotes forpeople who can't see, to recruit
everyone to join them in theirmission, even if they don't join
your team.

SPEAKER_00 (09:07):
Great PR, baby.

SPEAKER_01 (09:08):
Right?
That it's all about publicrelations.
That's the I guess that's abetter way of saying it from way
you're labeling it, becausethat's the smart way is
recruiting is about publicrelations, hiring.

SPEAKER_00 (09:26):
That's the right person.

SPEAKER_01 (09:28):
Yes, that's the same in sales of like you know,
closing the sale, right?
You don't even use that languagein physical therapy erroneously,
but that's that's what that is.

SPEAKER_00 (09:35):
Yeah, marketing gets them to your door, sales gets
them to swipe a credit card.

SPEAKER_01 (09:40):
Right.
And marketing, we hear thatword, and like, what is it?
It's about promoting a purpose.
So it's PR again.
Like, we're out there doing goodin the world.
If I'm going out to a charity, Iwant to tell the world about it,
not because I'm patting myselfon the back, but because it
inspires people to do charity,and so that's where we screw up
in PT.
It's like, well, I don't I don'twant to toot my own horn.
It's like, well, no, you'reyou're just screwing up your

(10:01):
opportunity to help people bebetter, and then some of those
people join your team.

SPEAKER_00 (10:05):
Right.
I did something that I thinkcame off super like douchey on
the internet, not on purpose.
Sure.
So I would see people putting upjob posting, physical other
physical therapy clinics, right?
Because that's who I'm friendswith on LinkedIn.
They would put up job postingsand I would re-share their

(10:25):
posting, but I would rewritetheir ad.
And it didn't, it it didn't goover all the it didn't, it
wasn't a hundred percent successrate.
Like, I was why were theyoffended?

SPEAKER_01 (10:37):
Were they offended because they felt like you were
minimizing them?

SPEAKER_00 (10:40):
Not minimizing them.
I think they were like, mine wasfine, and I was like, it was not
fun.
And here's why.
Like, we could write you couldright now, we could live write a
crappy job posting.
First of all, don't call it ajob posting.
Like, you would will call it apurpose posting.
Thank you, or something.
Yeah, so the step one theyusually do they get wrong is

(11:01):
they're like, we're looking for,and you started with we stop
talking.
It's about them.

SPEAKER_01 (11:07):
The language is you, correct, or you like the who
right?
The hook is always the mostimportant thing.
I teach this in webinars thatthe most powerful way to write a
job ad, and I know you knowthis, I'm just saying this for
the audience, is that we use thewhole purpose of the first
sentence is to get them to readthe rest of the ad, period.

SPEAKER_00 (11:26):
Right, correct.
What do you say?
Yes.
I the first the pre the purposeof the first date is to get a
second date, right?
The purpose of the second dateis to get the third date.
If you say the purpose of thefirst date is to get married,
you're that's a red flag.
The purpose of the pickup lineis to get a giggle, the purpose
of the second line is to get theand eventually you get the
number, then you get the yougotta start higher.

SPEAKER_01 (11:48):
Yes, I love that.
I love that the way youparalleled that.
I'm gonna build on your analogyof like the pickup line is to
get the giggle.
Why?
Because we're trying todifferentiate, we're trying to
create a connection like youwere doing with your hands and
an emotional response.
So, how do you do that whenyou're doing an ad?
Well, context, right?
Right.
If you're if you're putting itin LinkedIn, not LinkedIn,

(12:10):
sorry, I'm thinking of uhIndeed.
You can do LinkedIn, but Indeedis more commonly known.
So the the sentence needs tospeak to your ideal hires,
fears, dreams, hopes.
And so, for example, instead ofsaying we are looking for
someone to join our our greatcompany that gives great quality
care, which by the way, stopsaying quality care.
No one cares about your qualitycare.

SPEAKER_00 (12:31):
That's vanilla mayonnaise.
That phrase is vanillamayonnaise, man.

SPEAKER_01 (12:34):
You think you're better than everyone else?
You're not, you're not, but youare better in other ways that
you don't even know.
Right.
And so in that hook, forexample, if your avatar, your
ideal hire is a student, maybeit's someone who's been out of
school for a year.
The the hook could be like, haveyou been out of school working
as a physical therapist andfeeling disenfranchised with
your decision to become a PT?

SPEAKER_00 (12:55):
And you're like, Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (12:56):
Yeah, if so it because maybe you have programs
that would speak to someone likethat who's maybe a little
experienced, doesn't need full.
And so everyone's avatar isdifferent, all the hooks are
different, but you want to buildan avatar based on what you do
best.
And and you can always, if youdon't know where to start, go
find the people who love yourcompany the best.
Or like the people you wish youcould clone, go, why do you like

(13:17):
it here?
What is it about you that youliked about it?
Interview them and then taketheir words and put it in ads.

SPEAKER_00 (13:22):
Yeah, talk to me about me.
It's the sexiest thing I'll hearall day.

unknown (13:26):
Totally.

SPEAKER_00 (13:27):
Or it's like, oh, you're so great.
It's like, oh no, stop, keepgoing, keep going, keep going.
You're saying keep going, keepgoing, keep going.
Like, yes, I want to hear moreabout me.

SPEAKER_01 (13:34):
Yeah, and they're so happy to do that.
It's like such a fun thingbecause it's also like an uh a
retention activity.
If I went up to an employee andsaid, Hey, John, I wish I had a
million more Johns.
Can you help me find more peoplejust like you?
How is that guy gonna feel?
Appreciated, seen, heard.
I'm not leaving this place, theyget me here, right?
So leveraging them becomes thislike team effort, not just the

(13:55):
owner's effort, quietly in tearsat night on the window.

SPEAKER_00 (13:58):
Everyone to to the internet, to the void, right?
I'm just gonna fling it onLinkedIn.
The answer is just spend moremoney on LinkedIn.
I'm like, is it though?
Is it right?
No, you see what did you seewhat I was doing?
Have you have you seen what Iwas doing the last?
We're recording on in earlyDecember.
I'll put this out fast.

SPEAKER_01 (14:14):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (14:15):
So people so it still has context.
So we'll talk about this later,but I started my own company.
It's essentially what you weretalking about.
Like, Will and Jimmy are very,very similar human beings.
I'm pretty sure you can tell youtell the vibe, even if you know
nothing about me and nothingabout Will.
So people were offering memoney, and I didn't want to take
money from my friends.
Yeah, I was like, I'll takemoney from companies, but not my

(14:38):
friends.
But my friends are like, we havecompanies.
I'm like, but they're yourcompanies and you're my friends,
so therefore, whatever,whatever, whatever.
So I started a company, right?
So the idea there was, can I dothe thing that I'm already doing
for fun and just make a companyout of it?
At the same token, I do like tohave consulting clients or
clients I just work on projects.
So the thing I'm doing onLinkedIn, all it's so I'm doing

(15:00):
it in public, which is where thesneaky part is.

SPEAKER_02 (15:03):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (15:03):
So my last like five posts were if at Medbridge,
tagging Medbridge, if MedBridgehired me tomorrow, here's the
first three things I do.
And then I give them in publicthree, I think, great ideas.

SPEAKER_01 (15:19):
Great ideas that might be criticismed, right?

SPEAKER_00 (15:21):
No, no, no, just ideas of what well, I mean, hey,
listen, I went to Medbridge'swebsite.
So here's what I do.
I go to Medbridge's website, Ilook very quickly.
I do not dig because no one'sgonna dig.
There, your average person isnot digging.
If I don't see it, it doesn'texist.
So I go to Medbridge's website,I'm like sort of taking mental
notes.
I'm recording what I'm I'm I'mlike a doctor doing an autopsy.

(15:41):
Right?
Uh the kidney weighs threepounds, whatever, like uh
nothing, nothing remarkable.
So I'm looking at my bridge'swebsite, cool.
And then if they have social uhchannels, I only go if I'm
linked from the website.
Because someone might be like,we have a YouTube channel, like
not linked from the website,doesn't exist.
I'm not looking for you onYouTube if it's not linked.
So I'm making mental notes, andthen I'm just snapshotting

(16:03):
everything that I'm doing.
YouTube looks like this, theyhave a lot of success, their
vibes, they're like, I'm justI'm just verbally processing
everything.
And then I go, what do I thinktheir what do I think their
strategic goals are?
I'm guessing.
I'm making a guess.
This is educated guess from theoutside, but everybody's making
an educated guess.
Your consumer is making aneducated guess of what do you

(16:24):
do?
How does it make my life better?
What do I need to do to get it?
And then I write up threefictitious ideas.
They're not fictitious, they'rereal ideas.
Uh I said to MedBridge.
Uh for every steal a page out ofTom's shoes.
For every American CEU, forevery uh year subscription, I'd
give one away to a country, acountry, uh, an underdeveloped

(16:45):
country.
And at checkout, I would offerto level up for five dollars to
now create a microfund to getinternet access and and devices
to those countries.
And I would probably partnerwith World Physio, World
Confederation of PhysicalTherapy, because they already
have the infrastructure.
Uh put that up, and then peoplestart chiming in, and people are

(17:05):
like, just regular people, orlike they don't work at
Medbridge, but they're like,that is a really good idea.
How come they aren't doing that?
And then people who know peopleat Medbridge start tagging
people at Medbridge, and now Ihave a meeting with the director
of content in today.
No way, and it might not goanywhere, and Medbridge is
already going to be.

SPEAKER_01 (17:22):
But how cool is that?
Going back to like Legion andmarketing and promoting a
purpose and like doing good tothe world, like it's it's just
amazing how it invitesopportunity, it invites like
these wonderful opportunitiesthat we never would have dreamed
of.

SPEAKER_00 (17:36):
But could you could you do that for a for a post on
LinkedIn to fire the to fire tohire to find absolutely great
clinician?
Yes, make it a story.
I know it's gonna take youlonger than it would if you just
wrote the standard fivesentence, we are looking for a
great clinician to join ourteam.

(17:56):
But people, that's it'smayonnaise flavored ice cream,
man.
They ain't eating it at all.
So that time is wasted.
I'm gonna say triple down ontelling a story.
And now, I don't know if you'veseen this thing, uh, Will.
There's this stuff I don't knowhow to explain.
It's called AI.
You can do this very freakingquickly.
Well, so do that.
It's a power you can chop down atree with an axe or you can use

(18:18):
a chainsaw.

SPEAKER_01 (18:18):
You're just no one else is doing this anyway.
Like it's one of those thingswhere, like, the few companies
that have an online presence whoare leveraging LinkedIn are
automatically better than anyonewho's doing nothing because most
people in our industry don't dosquat.

SPEAKER_02 (18:32):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (18:32):
So here's one thing I want to just promote something
that you said that I thought wassuper powerful.
I want to double down on is thatthe reason the Medbridge idea
works so well is because youlegitimately are passionate.
It wasn't a tactic to get themeeting, right?
Right now, you're not dumb.
You understand that's going tobe a product potential, and it
does inspire that, but those areit's an alignment of both of

(18:54):
those things.
So we're not doing the posts toget a hire, we're doing the
posts to inspire.

SPEAKER_00 (19:01):
Oh, Will's always making it rhyme.

SPEAKER_01 (19:02):
Yes, and then and then the hires come as a so
what's cool about that too isthat when we're doing something
that's inspiring, we I loved it.
We love to do it.
So it's not work, it becomesthis thing of like, I can be
consistent, I can post threetimes a week on LinkedIn because
every week, in your case, you'refinding a company that you can
use your brilliance for to servein some general way that the

(19:23):
public even benefits fromhearing.
And then guess what happens?
People get tagged and you getinterviews.
So the idea being that we haveto find it always starts with
inspiration, and that's why whenwe recruit VAs, it's so vital
that we know what's reallydriving the heart and soul of
our clients and the VA.
That's how you make that avatarhair bond.
So it's one of those things thatyou could do this to recruit,

(19:44):
you could do this to find aspouse for crying out loud.
You could do this.
Yeah, recruiting, recruiting tome is such a crappy word because
it's really about this this likeart of building people around us
and helping us serve.
Them and guess what?
The product is they serve us.
And so we do that when we getmarried.
We do that when we find partnersin businesses.

(20:05):
We do that with strategicpartners.
When Jimmy and I get together,it's all we do.
And that's every part, it's likethe best part of life is that
thing that we just use thiscrude term in business called
recruiting.

SPEAKER_00 (20:15):
Recruiting.
So then, okay.
So we just talked aboutrecruiting.
But then there's hiring.
So what is that now?
What's what's the pickup line?
What like what's the analogy?
Help me understand hiring then.
Now that I understand what thedifference is between hiring and
recruiting.

SPEAKER_01 (20:31):
Yeah, this is such a fun conversation.
I knew that you get they wouldthink that we spent weeks
preparing this.
So hiring is the agreement, justlike marriage.
And I love that you went therein your analogy because what is
what makes a marriagesuccessful?
Is it because we dated well?
That's like saying we're hiringwell because we recruited well.
It does make a difference.
Matter of fact, it's the mainthing up until the agreement.

(20:54):
But as you know, and as I know,once someone's married, it's a
whole new world.

unknown (20:59):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (20:59):
So it's the starting line, not the finish line.

SPEAKER_01 (21:01):
It's yeah.
And so the the thought I wantpeople to think about is that
when we are hiring, that's theactual close of the sale, that's
the end in mind of therecruiting process in the
business terms, but it's thebeginning of this long-term
relationship.
So the way that I'm going tophrase this is from Stephen
Covey.
Everyone here should know this.
And if you don't, please go readthis book.
It's a win-win agreement.

(21:23):
So we create in that close, andthis is where people screw
things up because they'redesperate to hire.
You've got a pulse, come jointhe team.

SPEAKER_02 (21:30):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (21:30):
But when they're recruiting correctly and they're
inspiring and they attract theright mate or the right hire,
then it's a matter of like,let's build this thing through
transparency, identifying everypotential outcome that might or
may not happen.
And then let's make an agreementabout what as far as we can.
And so when we hire someone, westart the only discussion we

(21:55):
will ever have with thatemployee until the day that we
die, not until the day theyleave us.
And here's what I mean by that.
If I hire someone, I'm settingup a win-win agreement.
And that's the language I use,and that's how we define all the
terms, right?
At the review, we're justcontinuing that discussion.
How are things going with yourwin?

(22:16):
And as an owner of the company,I'm not, it's not between me and
the employee, by the way.
I am a steward of the win-winrelationship between them and
this entity called the company,which is a embodiment of
everyone.
So I make sure as an owner or aleader, I am making sure both
people win at that review andwin.
And my goal, and this is what Iused to say when I used to

(22:37):
recruit people, Jimmy.
This was told to me as the mosteffective thing I ever said.
My goal is not to hire you, mygoal is to help you find your
next job, whether that's with meor somebody else.
So they they love that becauseit was a commitment to their
long-term success.
And that's the commitment wemaintain year over year.
And when we fire people or theyfire us because they leave, we

(23:00):
continue that discussion.
And if we start it powerfullyand we do the best we can
because we're imperfect tomaintain that over time,
correcting mistakes on bothsides.
I have fired people, Jimmy, andthe next day had them post
something positive about mycompany on Facebook.
I have people that have firedme, that we have remained dear
friends because I recruitedthem.

(23:22):
I didn't just hire them, theyare bought into me and my
mission as I am to them.
And we are there to build eachother.
We just don't get to worktogether because it's no longer
God's will, is how I say it.

SPEAKER_00 (23:32):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (23:32):
I mean, that's so that's that's the hiring phase
of it.

SPEAKER_00 (23:35):
I I've looked, I've heard it too, and this is like a
side, but I think we're using alot of parallels with marriage
or friendships, which is, youknow, if you're super tight with
someone in high school andyou're not so tight anymore,
it's just someone used ananalogy of like, well, you guys
were just walking on the samepath for four years in high
school, and then you went tocollege, and that distance just
brought you on different paths,but you might move back to your

(23:55):
hometown like I did, and nextthing you know, you're like, oh,
now we're at a different phaseof life and we're closer in
proximity.
But I also had friends that Iwas far away from, but still
close in relationships.
So it was this like, we're gonnawalk together for a while.
Have you ever had a job thatlasted your entire life, Will?
No.
No, no one does.
So this whole I'm gonna hire forthe best person ever, it's like,

(24:18):
why don't we find great fit foras long as we're together and
make that as great as we can andunderstand that my job, what you
just said, my job is to help youfind your next job, whether it's
still with me or not.
Gary V has said, I'm thrilledwhen somebody at my organization
is getting recruited.
It means that person's beingseen and doing great work.
And if you're looking to leaveand this isn't a good fit, I

(24:42):
want you to go somewhere.
What do I want someone who'sburned out and doesn't want to
do the thing?
This is what we're doing.
If that's not for you anymore,it was, but it's not.
Want you to be happy.

SPEAKER_01 (24:52):
Yeah, and we all we all have the fear in those
relationships of rejection.
And that's what really drives usas human beings.
So I want to just make sureeveryone who hears this is like
we all start there.
I just want to open like withwhat you're saying, Jamie.
I want to open what's possiblefor them.
Because imagine what happenswhen we remove that fear of
rejection, and you have theyhave the attitude that you just

(25:14):
described.
Let's just walk together as longas we're meant to walk together,
whatever that looks like,knowing that there's another
force out there, destiny, God,whatever you believe it is.
For me, it's God.
This idea of like, however longwe get to work together, I'm
gonna serve you in that deeper,meaningful way as long as
humanly possible.
But I also know I'm not gonna bewith you potentially forever.

(25:34):
So here's what that solves.
If I hold that relationship withsomeone in that way, they feel
safe to tell me when they'rethinking about leaving much
earlier, which gives me a chanceto change things in the
agreement.
Or I've had people resign withthree months' notice.
Like, hey, right like, hey,well, I just just because I care
about you and I know that you'renot gonna freak out by this.

SPEAKER_00 (25:53):
You run way.

SPEAKER_01 (25:54):
Yeah, I I think I'm I'm really seriously thinking
about this opportunity, andhere's why you can't match it.
And I'm like, Yeah, I can't.

SPEAKER_00 (26:02):
Go do that.

SPEAKER_01 (26:03):
They trusted that I would see that and not make it
hard for them.

SPEAKER_00 (26:06):
Do not make their last three months awful in
living hell and make me want tobail out.

SPEAKER_01 (26:09):
Yeah, and I had one lady do that and then refer,
like, just I was like, Can youhelp me put the word out?
And she ended up helping me hireher replacement.
It was crazy, like just thatkind of mindset changes the
whole game.

SPEAKER_00 (26:20):
Do you want to know how extreme it is?
And well, radio is different,right?
So if if if I so I told my boss,listen, I'm going to become a
physical therapist.
I was a radio DJ in northeastPennsylvania.

SPEAKER_02 (26:30):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (26:30):
And in radio, you put your two weeks in, they hand
you a check and a cardboard box.
We're not putting you, we'lljust pay you for the last two
weeks.
We're not putting you on theradio because now you got no
skin in the like we have no ideawhat you're gonna say.
Like you might go rogue.
Yes, but you want to talk aboutthe relationship I have with my
general manager, Bill Palmeri.
I actually all that guy I call,I haven't talked to him in a
while.

(26:51):
The relationship we had, I waslike, listen, I'm not leaving
because I don't like you.
I'm leaving the profession.
Like, I'm looking at radio at Ithink I was 28 years old, and
I'm like, this isn't me at 38.
I need to do somethingdifferent.
I'm gonna go this way.
I'm not leaving because I don'tlike the station, I'm not going
to another station, I'm not, youknow.
And I walked into his officefully prepared for him to be

(27:11):
like, here's a check in acardboard box because this is
the industry, man.
And he goes, How long can youstay?
And I was like, I got to dothese things called
prerequisites.
And I was, you know, and it'sgonna take me a while, but I
just wanted you to know becauseI love the station and I've
built it up for the last sevenyears.
I want it to succeed, so you gotto get someone in my seat, like,
and I'll help you find thatperson if you want or not,

(27:33):
whatever.
And he goes, How long can youstay?
I'm like, the prereqs are gonnabe a year and a half.
And he goes, Let's do a year anda half.
So I was standing in a radio anda half notice in radio.
Wow, you don't usually don't geta week and a half's notice.
So he goes, Do me a favor, don'ttell anybody yet because I don't
want everybody else to freak outbecause everybody looks at you
like you're the guy who knowswhat he's doing.

(27:54):
Look, he looks yeah, that causesfear.

SPEAKER_01 (27:55):
It's like, what do I yeah, totally?

SPEAKER_00 (27:57):
So I was standing in the radio studio in between
Pearl Jam and Foo Fighter songswith a physics book doing all my
prereqs.
I was interviewing the guy fromShinedown, and he's like, Why do
you have a physics book there?
I was like, Oh, sometimes wejust need to hold the door open,
and that's a heavy book.
And he's like, Oh, okay.
Like, I had to tell I had it tokeep everybody in the dark,
right?
You didn't want him to call youa nerd, right?

(28:18):
And it was because we had that,he's like, I get it, Jimmy.
And I'm not nervous that you'regonna go ahead and turn that
microphone on and tear the housedown that I know you cared about
for the you know, you built forthe last seven years.
And gosh, that's a story aboutradio, but is it it couldn't it
also be about a clinic or abusiness, or it could be about
anything?

SPEAKER_01 (28:36):
I love the story because it's in my mind, it's a
hundred percent about trust.
And my favorite book of all timefor business.
And this isn't like anexaggeration, this is like when
people say, Do you have afavorite business book?
I have a favorite.

SPEAKER_00 (28:49):
What is it?

SPEAKER_01 (28:50):
It's called The Speed of Trust by Stephen
Covey's son, Stephen Covey,which immediately you're like,
Well, it's not the main man,surely he's not as good.
This book was told to me by oneof my mentors years.
Oh my gosh, he's he's holding uphis screen.

SPEAKER_00 (29:04):
That's why I slid off screen.
I was like, it's sitting next tome, and I got I'm halfway
through now.

SPEAKER_01 (29:08):
It's a it's not an easy read, it's not one of those
reads where it's like a parable.
I those are my favorite books interms of like the ease of
reading.

SPEAKER_00 (29:15):
Story, story, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (29:16):
I can read it in two hours.
This is a this is a like a twoto three month project for me to
read that much of a book that isthat deep in concept, but it it
was really big because it helpedme understand how guys like uh
Warren Buffett can go shake witha handshake deal for billions of
dollars in a matter of days whenit should have taken years of
investigation.
And that's the book goes intothat story.

(29:37):
There's just all these things.
So when we build relationshipsand we're serving our when we're
trying to inspire people throughour personal or professional
purpose, we organically buildtrust because we're authentic.
Like that's the thing about you,Jimmy.
It's I have never seen youanything other than the way you
sound on on the show.
In person, it's like you'retalking to me on a podcast.

(29:58):
You're you are who you are, andthat invites trust.
And so when we communicate, evendigitally, that's where the the
AI component becomes either ahelp or a hindrance.
When we're doing a guy named UmAlex Hermozi says that when
we're communicating, you know,in a mass way and it's not
authentically individual, weshould be really clear that's

(30:20):
what it is.
Like you're getting this textreminder as a mass email to
everybody.
But when we reach outpersonally, that's when we say,
hey, this is really me reachingout to you.
Because the authenticity createstrust, which you know, from a
sales perspective, if we want tobe manipulative, actually
creates an emotional experienceof them wanting to buy in.
PTs suck at being manipulativein a great way.

SPEAKER_00 (30:41):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (30:41):
So for us, we have one choice to really lean in and
be ourselves and stop trying tojust hire people to start
inspiring the world with whatyou care about, and the hires
will come.

SPEAKER_00 (30:52):
I agree with you.
We're very bad at beingmanipulative, and that's great.
Yeah, but but then the funnypart is all right, let me tell a
story and then it's gonna makesense.
I will tell people all the timeif you I have to put it, uh, I
gotta put together apresentation for CSM.
Awesome.
What's your process?
Well, I sit down and openPowerPoint.
Can you I want you to not dothat?
And like, why?
I'm like, I want you to takemarkers out or a dry erase board

(31:14):
or a big roll of butcher paper.
Start there.
Why?
Because that's not a tool forcreativity.
That's a that's a tool fororganizational design.
Yes, the creativity comes first.
Design is terribly important,but if you don't know what
you're designing, like a goodgraphic designer will be like, I
don't know what I'm designingyet.
Like they're gonna sit therewith a lot of times, it's it's

(31:34):
tactile, like they're pens andpads, like good digital graphic
designers are a lot of timesthey spend a lot of time with
things they can touch and feeland pens and and colored pen,
like things like that.
I've that I've seen anyway.
And if you do that, you startwith PowerPoint, that layer, it

(31:55):
isn't there because you'redesigning for you're creating
for PowerPoint, you're creatingfor the design instead of give
me the creation.
I need the lump of clay.
Don't start with hat, you can'tstart with half a bowl.
I need a lump of clay, and thenit's gonna become something or
it isn't, and you can guide itthere.
That's what I see with people.
Like we just talked aboutwriting the um job description

(32:17):
poorly.
That person sat down and triedto that PTs tried to sat down
and become a job descriptionwriter.
Don't be a PT that wrote a jobdescription.
Yeah, how would you say it?
Like the question you asked, howdo we find 10 more Johns?
That's a question that is nothow do we write a job?
That's the PowerPoint version.

(32:37):
Don't open LinkedIn to write thething, go to the dryerase board
or uh any, like any quiteliterally just vomit to a
seven-year-old.

SPEAKER_01 (32:47):
Yeah, after researching it with people that
like after you're in that stateof research and curiosity, then
go vomit on a board.
I love that.

SPEAKER_00 (32:54):
Correct.
Yes.
Then then you can then you cansort of like okay, we're close.
Let's see, we're called okay.
Then we can do this, this, this.
Do you have the idea?
Yeah.
How do you translate that ideainto, and now it's gonna make
sense why I said like make abowl or a painting?
Now you translate the idea intoa medium.
And a medium is text, image,sound, video, clay, paint,

(33:15):
watercolor.
Like those are mediums.
That's why it's called media.
Like we lose, we use words somuch a lot of times.
We lose, we lose the meat.
Where'd that come from?
Why is it called media?
It's because it's there's amedium, it's the thing between.

unknown (33:26):
To be fair.

SPEAKER_00 (33:27):
How do I get it there?
Right now, Will and I are onvideo, but we're also doing
audio.
And I don't know which oneyou're doing, but this the
conversation translates in both.
You wouldn't want to read thetranscript of this.
This vibe doesn't work well intext.
So you have to understand themedia has to match the mess, the
message.
If it doesn't, so and it's gotto be aimed at an audience.

(33:48):
So if we're gonna go books,Simon Sinek says, start with
why.
I think you start with who.
And here's why.
Uh why because if I'mcommunicating a message to my
best friend Brian or mygrandmother, different.
Different who, even if I've eveninvited both of them to my

(34:09):
graduation party, differentperson changes what I'm gonna
say, why I'm inviting them.
I'm inviting my bro because he'smy bro, and my grandmother
because I would be honored withher presence.
And then as soon as I understandwhy I want them there and why
they probably want there, I'musing my hands because it's like
a it's a Venn diagram, where itcrosses.

(34:30):
That's what Simon Sinek'stalking about.
That's our shared why.
My shared with my shared whywith my best friend is different
than the shared why with mygrandma.
So the message different.
Soon as I get my shared why withmy best friend, I can figure out
a hundred ways how, where, andwhen to tell him in a fancy
invitation, in a text message,in a call.
I'll drive by his house and yellout the window.

(34:52):
Same thing for grandma.
It's a different shared why.
How, where, and when.
The how, where, and when getsreal easy if you can get to the
shared why.
So I agree with Cynic, but youhave to start with who.
Who matters?
So your who matters.
I need 10 more Johns.
What's John like?
Oh, he's extroverted.
Okay, got it.
Keep telling me, tell me.

SPEAKER_01 (35:12):
Why do I love John?
Why does John love me?
Like that curiosity mindset iswhat gets the creative juices
ignited, which by the way, I sawa really cool episode on um on a
different podcast.
It was this guy, he was apsychologist talking about the
part of our brain that createshappiness is the same part
controlled by creativity.
So when we are being creative,we actually start becoming

(35:32):
happier as a psychologist.
I like it.
Yeah, I love what you said.
A couple of things I want to uhhighlight there too, because
that blew my mind, Jimmy.
This idea that, like, using thatin an invitation analogy, if I
want to create a really coolinvitation, I'm missing the
point.
When I'm running, when I'mwanting to create a really
clear, meaningful extension,emotional connection in the

(35:55):
medium or media is a piece ofpaper that shifts my thinking
into like those curious points,like, well, why do I want this
person there?
Why do they why would theybenefit from being here?
What and then that creates, andthen that's this that's the seed
that starts design.
And given not all of us aregreat in all of those areas.
I suck at design.

SPEAKER_00 (36:14):
Me too.

SPEAKER_01 (36:14):
And and so that's when we can leverage other
things.
And this is where AI becomes ahindrance or a help.
Is that if I go to AI and I say,AI, I need to create an
invitation for my bro and mygrandmother, it's actually gonna
do a fairly good job ofproducing something that will be
clear.

SPEAKER_00 (36:31):
Right, clear, right?

SPEAKER_01 (36:32):
End of sentence.
Here's how to use it as a help.
I do that what you said, whichby the way, you're I have to
present for I'm getting readyfor a presentation that I'm
going to keynote in a few weeks.
And it just the way that yousaid that changed how I'm gonna
do it.
But this is what I'm gonna do,this is a version of what I'm
gonna do better, and thanks toyou.
I'm gonna go to my whiteboardand I'm gonna take out my AI
note taker, like a bathom or anarray.

(36:54):
I'm just gonna hit record andI'm gonna talk out loud to
myself as I'm writing down allthe different options and I'm
gonna ask creatively who needsto hear this message?
What do I want to say that I'minspired about?
What do they there's certaindomains, of course, that I've
agreed upon to cover, but I'mjust gonna go into that space
and I'm gonna spitball and I'mgonna go back and forth and I'm

(37:14):
gonna draw up differentcreative, you know, ideas.
And then once I start narrowingthat field down and I know what
the purpose is and the productis, and I know what the
experience that I want to createis, and I have some I some key
words and language comes in,then I'm gonna download that
note taker, throw it into ChatGPT, and say, okay, here's the
deal.
I want to create a uh aninvitation that warms the heart

(37:38):
of my grandmother.
You're gonna hear all about itin my discussion.
And I just want you to pitch outfive different ways to do that
in a way using best practices.
And then can you help me designit basically to create that to
create that emotional impact?
Because at the end of the day,and I want everyone to hear this
if you're gonna look for, well,how does it apply to creating a
job ad?
If you took out a piece of petpaper and wrote until you

(37:59):
started to get emotional andthen turned and just started
writing anything that comes tomind to hire that ad, well, 10x,
whatever crap everyone else isdoing.
Yep.
And so if how cool that'd be ifI was uh someone looking for a
job and after hearing we arethis and we are this and we are
this, I had an ad that startedwith I really want to find the

(38:24):
person I can serve forever.
I'm writing this without anycontext.
I'm just trying to be open andhonest.
My benefits are just like howdifferent would that?
I was thinking about that as youwere talking.
Like, what if someone justpoured their soul into a piece
of to a piece of paper thatturned into an add-on indeed?
I was just like, I care so muchabout these things.
I just want someone who caresabout them with me.
Like, I just think there'ssomething to be said about

(38:46):
authenticity.

SPEAKER_00 (38:47):
You led with the emotion that would touch the
right person that was readingit, and it wouldn't touch the
wrong person.
And that's a great, that's good.
I want to weed out the peoplethis isn't right for.
This is who we are.
I don't want more peopleapplying for my clinic because
then I'm gonna, I might pick, Imight, they might be really
great at getting the job, andthen three months in they're the
wrong person, but they tried,they won the interview, and I

(39:08):
found a hire.
That's not it.
We used to use this exercise inradio, it was hard.
Because in the radio I was inwas music radio, right?
So I was very much likeentertainment.
So I sometimes had eight secondsto say something or 48 seconds
between songs.

SPEAKER_01 (39:25):
Jeez, man.

SPEAKER_00 (39:26):
So you had to cut like the length of time.
So you learned how to get briefreal quick.
The problem is people havecrutches, they have things that
they get accustomed to becausewe're nervous.
You turn the microphone on,you're like, hey, a jillion
people can hear me.
That's nerve-wracking.
And you'd hear it in a you couldstart mid thought, just what
you're saying.
It was hard to teach people todo, but once you got it, you got

(39:48):
it.
I'll give you an example.
Picture, if you will.
We're coming out of a Pearl Jamsong, we're going into a Foo
Fighter song.
I have 30 seconds to talk.
If I come on and I give you the979X, uh, what's up?
It's McKay.
It's uh 2 26 in the PM, it's 38degrees.
You know, this Friday we'regonna do a car wash with the uh

(40:10):
with the local football team'scheerleaders, and it's gonna be
awesome.
And this is why you should comebecause and then eventually I
get to I mean, can you imaginethem just like pouring their
heart out into this car wash sothey can send their team to the
state game, the statechampionship?
Get to the emotion.
That's the part I see.
So I would do air checks, whichis us listening to what other

(40:32):
DJs would just say, and I'mlike, you talked for 30 seconds,
you hit the emotion at 26,though.
Start there.
Your noise for 26 seconds andyour signal for four seconds.
We got to get to signal faster.
Start mid-conversation, startstand-up comedians are great
about this.

(40:53):
I was at the uh doctor's theother day.
Wow, like what are we doing withall these things I gotta
paperwork I gotta fill out?
Like, boom, not so I was feelingsick and I had the annual check.
Get rid of it, get rid of it.
So, what you the exercise you'retalking about of writing and
writing and writing and writing,that's a lot of that's like
doing a lot of push-ups.
I'm just telling you you willget better results.

SPEAKER_01 (41:13):
And it gets you to that emotional point so quick.
I think that's such a powerfulthing.
Kind of the double emphasizewhat you said in improv comedy,
there's this concept calledstart in the middle.
Sounds identical to what you'resaying.
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (41:24):
What is what is start in the middle?
That's the same thing, right?
I'm describing the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 (41:28):
Okay, so for example, someone from the
audience throws out um alocation called Starbucks, and
then you say, Okay, what's therelationship?
Brothers, right?
And it's kind of like if if thescene begins with one guy going
up to the other guy and beinglike, Oh, hey, John, how's it
going?
Good to see you.

SPEAKER_00 (41:44):
Right, it's too yeah, it's too beginning-y.

SPEAKER_01 (41:46):
What if the scene started with like, Were you out
with my wife last week?
Yes.
Now immediately we're in themiddle of a conversation, we're
right at that emotional influx.
We haven't talked, we haven'tgone through all the small talk
of the relationship.
We were getting to the core ofthe scene, and and then it's
just, you know, it's like, oh, Ididn't, you know, that we were,
and then in comedy, it's likeyou try to take and build a
brick on it, and the responsecould be something like, Oh, I

(42:07):
didn't know you guys were stillmarried.
The audience laughs.
Like, it's like that kind ofthing.
So, like when it comes to job adwriting, being authentic, pure,
and then getting to the middleof the emotion.

SPEAKER_00 (42:16):
That's it, start in the middle.

SPEAKER_01 (42:18):
Yeah, and I love the idea.
I've never done this before.
I'm actually might I might pilotthis idea, Jimmy, of writing a
job ad like a love letter in themiddle.
Like, because you know, again,the example I gave earlier, I
just edited myself.
I'm like, in that example ofsomeone pouring their heart out,
it's like, this is what I'mlooking for.
I'm like, no, a love letterwould be like, listen, I know
you're out there, I know you'restruggling.

(42:39):
I know I think about you all thetime.
And I think about what why youeven became a physical
therapist.
And I just want you to know thatlike it, I think you it matters
what you've done.
I just, I just want you tounderstand that not every place
is the same.
And here's what, for example,this is what I'm looking for.
But what's important is that youknow what you're looking for.

(43:00):
So if you don't know what you'relooking for, give me a call
because whether you want to workfor me or not, and by the way,
here's my benefits and my mycompensation if you do.
But if you're not sure what youwant, why don't you give me a
call?
And I promise you I'll help youfind your next home.
I just, you know, I don't it'snot I'm not trying to I'm not
gonna try to hire you.
I just want you to be happy.
Like a love letter.
You know, people are gonna go,what the heck?

SPEAKER_00 (43:18):
Spin that.
We did something similar inradio.
We had uh there was a localentertainment, a weekly
entertainment magazine.
It would come out on Wednesdayor Thursday, tell you about all
what the bars and the bands andwhatever in northeast
Pennsylvania.
So we would partner every once ayear, and they they would always
say, What do you want to do?
Let's cross-promote, man.
The rising tide.
And I was like, All right.
And I sat down with them, and itusually it was like a contest or

(43:41):
something.
But this time I was like, I'mgonna do something, it's gonna
sound dumb or boring, but we'regonna make it awesome.
And they're like, Okay, I'mlike, I want you to help me find
my next.
I need to hire a couplepart-time DJs.
I always need to be building mybench, yeah.
And they're like, Okay, andthese people like knew me and
trusted me, but they were like,Got it.
This doesn't sound very and I'mlike, here's the pitch.

(44:04):
So the name of the the um weeklymagazine was called The
Weekender, and we would callweekend radio DJs or part-time,
there were weekenders, they wereweekend radio DJs.
So I was like, your name isgonna be in it, so you already
love it.
And they're like, Okay, but howare we making you looking?
How are we making essentiallywhat you're saying?
How are we making a want adcenterfold material to be fun?

(44:27):
And I said it's the worst jobpost ever, and it's and the job
post uh tells you how to get thejob, and they're like, got it,
still not in, but come on.
Yeah, they're like this 979X islooking for our next weekend DJ.
Have you dreamed about have youever thought about it'd be cool

(44:48):
to work at a radio station likeours, the rock station in
northeast Pennsylvania?
You've pictured it, but here'sthe thing you gotta earn it
because we don't let justanybody in.
So you're gonna start at thebottom, making state minimum
wage.
You're gonna work nights,weekends, and overnights.
Yeah, you are gonna get you'regonna be last in line for

(45:10):
concert tickets, the last personwho gets the nickelback CD if we
have any left.
And if you really want this job,hit record on your phone, read
this job application to us, likeyou read it on the air, and and
and email it to me.
And then and then they werelike, got it, got it.
Then I brought people in.

(45:31):
I sorted them out, and then Ibrought people in for 15-minute
interviews on the radio, and thewhole thing was called we're
looking for our next weekender.
By the way, and we're doinganother ad for next next week in
the center fold of theweekender.
Make sure you pick it up, andnow everything ties together.
And we just made a contest uhcampaign out of finding our

(45:52):
weekender, and we didn't thatyear we did it, we didn't hire
one, we hired five because Iliked it all.
We found the right, I couldn'tsay I found five.
I was only looking for one, butI but I need a bigger bench.
Let's put more people in thebullpen.
And we found five because Iwrote a love letter to the
person who'd be perfect, not whothe hell wants to come by.

SPEAKER_01 (46:12):
So brilliant, and it's it is so powerful when we
mention authentically both sidesof the coin.
We gain trust when we hit thingslike you mentioned as to the
downside of it.
That reminds me of a very famousad.
You've probably heard of thisfrom Ernest uh Shelt Shackleton.
This was back this is back along time ago.

(46:32):
We're talking like 60 years ago.
It was a post in the newspaper.
It says, Med men wanted forhazardous journey, small wages,
bitter cold, long months ofcomplete darkness, constant
danger, safe return, doubtful,honor and recognition in case of
success.

(46:52):
It was about a voyage, uh, a seavoyage that they were going to
explore some new new new lands.
And so the you know, two-thirdsof the ad is like downer.
Talking about the downside, andthere's what's weird is that
people really respond to thatbecause we're clear on the big
the big win.

SPEAKER_00 (47:09):
Yeah, but the reason you keep reading that is such a
juxtaposition because your ourour default value is the bar is
on the floor because everybody'sdoing it the same way, even if
their words are different.
So the fact that it starts itstarts as a negative is such a
like who would like you want tobe like who would do this?

(47:29):
This is ridiculous.
Those are the things that catchfire online or in a newspaper,
does not matter.
It's it's it's it does not it'sa juxtaposition, does not
deserve to be there.

SPEAKER_01 (47:38):
Yeah, it's funny because one of the things we're
doing to hire VAs is we createresistance on purpose to weed
commitment.
So we're building this, we'rebuilding this uh school group.
If you guys are familiar withschool, it's uh like a Facebook,
it's like a community, it's anonline community, very similar
to Facebook, except that you canhave courses and other different
elements.
There's a lot of things likethat popping up right now, but
we're using a school group.
And in the Philippines, we'reactually charging people five

(48:00):
American dollars per month to bea part of it.
In it, there's all sorts oftraining on how they can learn
how to use AI in different rolesthat we hire for.
Like there's all these promises,like the path for them to become
a much more effective VA andeventually maybe get hired for
us for two to three times whatthey normally do requires them
to pay a price.

(48:20):
And it's great because yeah, weprobably could make a much
bigger community, but what we'relooking for are committed people
who were willing to physicallypay.
Now, what we do is every dime oftheir money, we reinvest back
into a charity that supportsFilipinos during uh typhoons,
which hit there every year.
But they still have to pay.
And it's one of those where it'slike, yeah, this isn't for we

(48:41):
literally advertise it.
Like, listen, if you're overseasand you're dreaming of being a
VA for an American medicalcompany, we only want to work
with the people who arecommitted to being the best.
And before there's no promise ofyou even being hired, you have
to come first spend five dollarsa month, which will go to
charity, but you have to comespend five dollars a month and
show that you're willing totrain before we'll even look at
hiring you.

(49:01):
And why do you think we haveless than three percent churn
when our people you weed out theyou weed out the badass when
someone hires us in America,they less than three percent of
the people ever leave us becausethey have such great
relationships because the VAsare better, they're just better.

SPEAKER_00 (49:16):
We're committed.
I did this at a job, I won't saywho, because sometimes doing
these things, so let's let'swe've been talking for 48
minutes, by the way.
I didn't geez, that was so fast.
I just looked up and I was like,wow, because we'll get we have
to get to your freaking event.
That was the part I want to makesure.
All right, well, I'll tell onemore story.

SPEAKER_02 (49:33):
Please.

SPEAKER_00 (49:34):
And so I was at a large organization and I get I
get hired by places, and andwhere does Jimmy work?
Jimmy just sort of walks aroundand looks for things to do, and
then I'm like, oh, this looksfun.
I should be put on this project.
Why?
Because it's bad.
Like I look for turds because Itry to fix them.
So for some reason, I was onhiring because it's important,
especially if it was ahealthcare organization.

(49:54):
I won't say who.
And I looked at their processfrom beginning to end, like I
would if I were the idealperson.
And it was a pretty goodprocess.
Everything looked good on paper,and I decided to try to steal a
page from another organizationthat has nothing to do with
healthcare, because I heard fromthe people, I almost did like
undercover boss.

(50:14):
I didn't talk to just themanagers, I talked to the people
doing the hiring, doing theinterviews.
And they were like, We get a lotof people who are tire kickers.
And I'm like, does that likeruin your efficiency?
Like, yeah, like I I know I'mdoing a hundred interviews for
uh six hires or whatever it was.
I'm like, you need lessinterviews.
They go, but yeah, we don't knowhow to how do I know?

(50:35):
And I'm like, oh, got it.
So I sat on it for a while and Iwas like, I always just cheat.
I just look, how is somethingnot in healthcare?
How is this?
How do people at oil changeplaces?
Oh, that I don't know, I don'tknow, I don't know.
Because right now you just saidit before.
What do we look for in PT?
Do you have a license and apulse?
Got it.
I'll take it.
Don't worry about it.
And that's so stupid, right?

(50:57):
So I knew this organization wasa big one, wasn't going to make
a major change.
I knew I only had a little bitof influence to change one
thing.
So I said, can we change thewords that we use?
And this organization was verybig on words.
We had our own glossary.
We did not call it a company, wecalled it a practice.

SPEAKER_01 (51:17):
I got it.

SPEAKER_00 (51:18):
I like things.
I'm like, oh, you have myattention.
So I said, uh, so the thebutton, the call to action was
apply here.
And I said, can we change it tocommit here?
Can it be commit here?
Not just on my landing page, buteverybody, every like on the

(51:39):
ads, when we talk, and we cantrack all these things because
now they use you know ADP orwhatever, like there's all these
like resume tracking, hiringtracking.
Absolutely.
So I got this from the USmilitary.
There are four main branches ofthe US military.
What's the motto for the Navy?

SPEAKER_01 (52:02):
I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 (52:03):
Army?

SPEAKER_01 (52:04):
I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 (52:06):
Uh Air Force.

SPEAKER_01 (52:09):
Fly high.
I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 (52:10):
Aim high?
Good.
That's usually the one peopleget.
They get get close.
How about the Marines?

SPEAKER_01 (52:15):
Uh few good men.
We're looking for no, that's thearmy.
Or is that no?

SPEAKER_00 (52:19):
That was that was a movie about Marines.
You're close, has the word few.
The few.

SPEAKER_01 (52:24):
The few, the proud.
The marines, of course.
I knew that one.
That one I knew.

SPEAKER_00 (52:27):
Yes.
When the Marine, when you go tothe Marines, the Marines don't
accept.
You want to apply, you go toapply to the army.
You go to apply to the navy.
You apply for the army.

SPEAKER_01 (52:36):
You commit to the Marines.

SPEAKER_00 (52:37):
You commit to the Marines.
We don't take applications, wetake commitments.
They fight club people.
They fight club people.
You, you're not tall enough.
You, you're too tall.
You, you're too fat.
No, no, no.
I want you, I want built-inresistance.
Exactly what Will just said,right?
The number of applications wentdown.
Everybody's freaking out.

(52:57):
You got to wait, man.
Let let let them cook.
The number of qualityapplications went up.
Yeah, it's closing at a betterrate.

SPEAKER_01 (53:04):
You did.
I love that example ofexclusivity.
When we're being authentic, whenwe're targeting our avatar, we
are immediately creatingresistance.
And that's what scares people.
They're like, but if I'm justtargeting these small people,
they don't understand.
You're you're static.
You said that earlier.
You're static.
You're white noise.
When you're clear in our when weare clear in our messaging and
our language, and that comesfrom emotional, like clarity of

(53:28):
where we want to go and who wewant to do it with, it creates
signal and it stands out.
It will it will detour all thecrap that you don't want to deal
with.
And I'm not saying people arecrap, I'm saying the situations
that you just want noise, youwant signal.
Yeah.
And so my favorite um phrase Ilearned from a mentor when it
came to sales, and this again,this used without the heart is a

(53:48):
tactic that won't work, but it'scalled use sue su e scarcity,
urgency, exclusivity.
So we want to be instead ofsaying, like, if you've had a
hard time hiring one position,but you only need one position,
you don't phrase it like, hey,we've really been desperate.

unknown (54:03):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (54:03):
You just say you say, we say we only have one
position.
The first person who whoqualifies will take this
position.
And then you create, and thenyou create after you created
that like exclusivity, then youcreate the urgency of like
whoever hires it first, and thenyou create the scarcity,
meaning, yeah, guys.
So if to qualify for this, thisis what we're looking for.
And we we just kind of waterthose last pieces down because

(54:25):
we're afraid, but if we hookthem well, which comes from
emotional connectivity andclarity, and we can really work
through that, then we can be asas like resistance prone as we
we should be, so that we onlyattract the right people who are
a signal.

SPEAKER_00 (54:38):
Right now I'm on that's that organization's
website.
By the way, after like so we sawthe numbers, and I was like, I
sort of made this face, like,ooh, looky, looky who had a good
idea.
Yeah, so we saw the numbers, itworked.
You just said the word emotionaland comes from a place of fear.
What do you think they did eightmonths later?
What do you mean?
They changed it back.

SPEAKER_01 (54:59):
They changed it back because after it showed that it
worked, they reached theychanged it back.

SPEAKER_00 (55:03):
I'm I mean, I haven't worked at this
organization in years.
I'm on their website right now.
I click on their on their frontpage, it says, uh, where'd
where'd it go?
Where'd the thing go?
It said it says work with us,and then when you click it, it
says, Are you looking for a job?
Oh no, but you want a job, dude.

(55:24):
There's freaking jobseverywhere.
I don't want a job, I want afuture, man.
There we go.
You know what I mean?
And so right, so I'm notknocking them because again, I
am it's a cute story, but likemaybe it didn't work, maybe it
didn't, I don't know, but itworked for that little snapshot.
I was like, hey, look at but itwould even if the wording was
different, lead with the motion.

(55:44):
Do you you're looking for a job?
Says one thing because I gotjobs, you got jobs.
Look at it's like you're tryingto sell watches on the street.
I got oh, I got watches, I gotgo watches, I got silver
watches, I got low, look, I gotwatches over here.
It's like, hey man, here's thebest analogy you want to go to a
bar, or do you want to hey ifyou go down to that laundromat
and you knock three times on thethird washing machine, the door

(56:07):
opens, and then you say, Bubblessent me.
That's a speakeasy.
Yeah, there's a reason it's gotbuzz, it's because nobody knows
about it, which means it's cool.

SPEAKER_01 (56:18):
That's right.
Exclusivity is correct bydefault cool.

SPEAKER_00 (56:23):
Cool.
You want to go to the bar, YogiBerra said, uh, I've nobody uh I
don't go to that, uh nobody goesto that place anymore.
It's it's it's it's always full.

SPEAKER_01 (56:34):
Right, right.
So having that exclusive, likeunique, nobody knows this but me
kind of experience is is sovital.

SPEAKER_00 (56:42):
I gotta do sponsors and then we gotta talk about
your event.
But I just looked at this isthis is I thought if you asked
me how long we've been talking,I would have said 20 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 (56:51):
I feel like this is a master class, though.
I think this is like such agreat time frame because people
who are on this are I'm hopingare having multiple takeaways.

SPEAKER_00 (56:57):
Yeah, I am.
Uh Empower EMR, they're built byphysical therapists for physical
therapists.
If you're tired of clunkyworkflows, slow charting
software that feels like it wascoded during the dial-up era,
empower is the upgrade yourclinic deserves.
It's fast, it's intuitive, itmakes documentation suck less.
And that's the dream, right?
EmpowerEMR.com.
Also want to thank our newsponsor, U.S.

(57:19):
Physical Therapy, one of thelargest and fastest growing PT
companies in the country.
Uh, clinics coast to coast,leadership tracks, mentorship
opportunities.
How do you want to grow in aculture that actually invests in
their people?
Wild concept.
I know.

SPEAKER_01 (57:32):
Can I say something positive about both of those
companies?

SPEAKER_00 (57:34):
Go.

SPEAKER_01 (57:35):
This is completely unplanned.
And this is extra value forSharif, the owner of Empower.
Yes.
Empower is one of the best, inmany ways, the best EMR out
there.
I have lots of respect and lovefor other EMRs in different
areas, but Sharif and hismission is powerful.
I love Empower.
Um, I can go into more reasonson that, but I just as a I get

(57:58):
nothing financially for sayingthis.
I just want I like to promotethink people I believe in.
I also love Love US physicaltherapy.
Why Chris Chris Redding is agood friend of mine.
So here's my belief on them.
They are the only, well, not theonly, there's another one, but
they're they're one of the fewsuper large physical therapy

(58:18):
entities that still retain,they're publicly traded.
They're one of the four publiclytraded PT companies, but they
are still or operated by PTs.

SPEAKER_02 (58:25):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (58:26):
And I've had multiple friends sell practices
to them that years later saythat was the best thing that
they've ever done.

SPEAKER_02 (58:32):
Wow.

SPEAKER_01 (58:33):
And I and I and I get nothing for saying this.
I believe in their whole board,Rick, Graham.
Um, they're just wonderful humanbeings.
And honestly, like I don't evensee them that often.
So there's no reason for me tosay that I get nothing for
saying this other than I believein the profession.

unknown (58:48):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (58:48):
And they're one of the ones who are doing it right.
Love those guys.

SPEAKER_00 (58:52):
That's why we started working together because
they're on a podcast.
And I was like, well, why wereyou trying to achieve?
And they're like, and the bighairy scary with the marketing
team was what we look like andfeel like, it's hard to show
that.
It's hard to do that, especiallyat scale.
It's like, how do we show peopleyou should come work for us?
Or if you want to, you know, ifyou want to, if you want to, you

(59:13):
know, have your clinic come be apart of us.
That's scary because that'sunknown.
And confused people don't.
Scared people don't.
We freeze.
So that they're large, largefootprint, but they're like,
it's hard to communicate thosethings.
So when I when I do their livereads, like these are done on
purpose, the way that I do them,which is like uh the outro with

(59:37):
that is if you're looking ifyou're a PT looking for your
next chapter or clinic leaderwanting a bigger stage, check
out career opportunities atusph.com.
So it's like you're saying whatthey're looking at, what you you
say hopes, dreams, and fears.
I say bads and goods, which islike what are the things that
are holding you?
What are you afraid of?
What do you want to get to?
What are your visions?

(59:58):
That's what you sell because thethe The purpose of the live read
on my podcast is not to get themto buy your clinic or for you to
work there.
It's to get you to take one stepcloser and go, I'll go to the
website.
That's why you should have onecall to action.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:10):
Only one and clear as day, as easy as possible.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:13):
Well, you could also do that.
No.
Different color button on yourwebsite.
Different color than everythingelse on your website.
It is a good button, right?
Do that.
All right.
So thank you to our sponsors forkeeping us on.
And look at that.
Well, I'm just recording.
I'm going to take the recordingof what you did, and I'm just
going to hit play on the hotkeyfrom now on.
And that's the live reading.

(01:00:34):
That's over that.
All right.
So I reached out a little whileago because I saw somewhere on
the interwebs you're doing anevent, and it has a lot to do
with the things we just yammeredon about for 55 minutes.
What is it?
And then who's it for?
Let's just make it emotional.
Who's it for?
What are they trying to achieve?
And how do they it's anin-person, it's an in-person
thing.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:53):
It's a two-day in-person party that is so
productive when it comes tohelping people really learn the
art of recruiting, training, andretaining their dream team.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:04):
Yeah, we need to get to retaining.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:06):
Yeah, it's it's this is the only event that hits
those buttons this clearly.
And what's cool about the event,Jimmy, isn't just that we have,
of course, amazing speakers whoare coming in who are
specialists in marketing andsales and recruiting.
We also get to speak withincredible students in the area.
In Arizona, we have a party thatwe so here's one of the things

(01:01:28):
that we're doing.
There is a whole training.
This is our second annual.
Last year was a huge success.
We're having all of thesephysical therapy students across
the state of Arizona come andparticipate in your practicing
of doing job interviews.
It's going to be mockinterviews, but they're real
interviews.
And one half of all the studentsin Arizona leave out of state.
Oh.

(01:01:48):
So we attract actually morecompanies to this event from out
of Arizona than in.
So not only are you coming tolearn, you're coming to actually
hire people.
This was a cool, like, I woke upin the middle of the night two
years ago.
It was ladies' night.
What if we had all the studentscome and then the PT owners
would come and actually have anopportunity to not just learn,

(01:02:08):
but actually hire people in realtime.
And so that was really fun lastyear.
We had a live band.
I always perform.
It's a rock star summit.
So I'm a rock star in my ownworld and I love to play and be
stupid.
Um, but this year, honestly, wemix so much value.
The fun, no one's gonna come forthe fun, but believe me, when
they leave, they're like, thatwas a blast.
And we make sure that's all it'sgonna be a powerful experience

(01:02:31):
for it's for PT, OT, and SLPleaders.
Anyone in that space, a lot ofpediatric people come, adult PT
obviously come from all over.
It's in Phoenix, Arizona, March6th through the 8th.
March 6th through the 8th.
We are going to sell out.
We are almost 50% sold out, andit doesn't start until March,
and we're filming this December4th.

(01:02:51):
So we we I'm not we don't it'snot a huge sponsor event.
We only have a handful ofsponsors.
We keep this really intimate,super, super fun, and incredibly
impactful.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:02):
Who are some of the speakers?
Like, and and like what are ifsomeone doesn't know who they
are, like what is their so gladthat you said that.
The great Greg Todd.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:10):
If you're familiar with that wonderful human being,
Brandon Siegel, the founderBrandon Siegel.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:15):
Wait, wait, wait.
I've started following BrandonSiegel because you shared he's
the guy with the beard, right?

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:19):
He is, yes, he is unfreaking real.
Greg Todd and Brandon Siegel.
I felt like I met my soul mates.
Is that weird?
Like, I just these are guys.
When I when I found Greg Toddafter years of learning from
this guy, I just went up to hima while back and said, I think I
love you.
Is that weird to say?
And he embraced me, he's like,No, bro, you and I are together.
I'm like, no way.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:40):
See you and Greg Todd being bros.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:43):
He is unreal.
We have um a speaker by the nameof Scott Fritz, who was my coach
and mentor for years.
He specializes in how to preparebusinesses to sell.
So he talks about recruiting,training, retaining from a place
of maximizing your clinic'svalue.
But check this out we also haveChris Ronzio, he's the founder

(01:04:03):
of Trainual, that online hundredmillion dollar software that was
invested in by Sharks from SharkTank.
He's a good friend of mine.
He's gonna talk about howautomating playbooks actually
retains talent over time.
We it's stacked with some of themost amazing speakers.
And uh yeah, it's a workshop aswell.
You're gonna come learn andpractice and hopefully actually

(01:04:24):
make some hires.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:25):
So you're looking for practice owners who are like
this.
I I came out of PT school anddid not understand.
I thought it was always patientattraction as the biggest
problem.
And then the more you talk tothem, they're like, that's
really cute, bro.
It's not it.
But from the outside, youwouldn't know unless you pop
another.
So this is for practice owners.
Yeah, is it any particular kind,any particular size, or if you

(01:04:46):
have this problem, this is thething that solves it for you.

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:48):
Yeah, it's practice owners and leaders of PT, OT,
and SLPs.
And here's the thing we getpeople who have single one-two
locations.
We also have guys there who have20 to 30 locations, mostly
because my network of my friendsthey all kept growing their
practices after I sold.
They come to make the hires andto possibly look for people to
partner with that they couldmaybe even acquire.

(01:05:08):
So it's it's one of those thingswhere yeah, we keep it small.
Talk about exclusivity.
Our venue only holds a hundredseats, and we're almost 50% sold
out.
Like we're almost 50% sold out.
So for us, like we haven't evendone aggressive sales or
marketing yet.
This is kind of the beginning ofthat.
And so we have an end of yearspecial.
It's half off until the end ofthis year.
So hopefully this podcast willget out to people because

(01:05:30):
starting January 1st, thoseprices double.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:32):
I'll drop it tomorrow, the fifth.
So, uh, and where do they go?
Where's your call to action?
Will your one call to action?
Where are they going to find it?

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:38):
You want to go to uh www.summit.virtual rockstar.com.
Once again, that'swww.summit.virtualrockstar.com.
Pick up your tickets, look atthe agenda, look at the
speakers, but honestly, just getready to make a difference in
your team.
The team is the legacy.
It's the best part of ourjourney when we know how to do

(01:06:00):
it.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:00):
Wow.
Well done.
All right.
We got some stuff to talk aboutoff air.
I want some insights.
We'll do that.
We'll do that in silence.
But parting shot, what is itfor?
Well, first of all, subscribe towhat if you like this vibe, you
could get this vibe, you couldmainline this vibe, willpower
podcast.
Uh, find that wherever podcastsare heard, or you can go to
virtual rockstar.com and there'sa drop-down that says we'll
start willpower podcast.

(01:06:21):
Uh, parting shot, what do youwant to leave with people?

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:24):
I want people to know that they matter.
That if you've gotten to thispart of the episode, you are one
of the few that are thatcommitted to getting to the very
end of those things, and thatwhat you are dreaming about, the
things that you are hoping tocreate, aren't just nice
thoughts.
It is important that youaccomplish those.

(01:06:44):
I'm gonna ask those people whoare in this state of listening
that they don't just hear thisas like a nice compliment, but a
call out to step forward and torealize that dream because other
people need you to.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:56):
I love that.
All right.
Uh thank you.
Like, thank you, man.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:01):
That was honestly one of the best times I've had
on a podcast ever.
I love that.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:05):
That was an hour, and I was like, okay, that seems
a lot.
I don't know, it's going byreally quick.
All right, Will, appreciate thetime, man.
Thank you.

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