January 1, 2024 • 55 mins
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When Rai, a seasoned urban chicken keeper, opened up about the hushed illness plaguing her backyard flock, it struck a chord with my own trials in tending to my feathered friends. We both know the weight of silence around these issues all too well, and it's high time we brought it into the light. Our cozy conversation traverses from personal tales of loss, stemming from the heartbreaking Marek's disease, to the heartwarming introduction of Rai's lively Jack Russell terrier, Olive. We exchange holiday cheer and commiserate over the unpredictability of Appalachian weather, which often throws a wrench in our best-laid plans, be they festive gatherings or school schedules.
Navigating the joys and sorrows of urban homesteading takes more than just a love for our clucking companions; it requires an eagle eye for the subtle signs of distress and illness they sometimes show. Rai and I share anecdotes that shed light on the importance of timely veterinary care and making informed decisions about your flock's health. Our candid dialogue opens up about companion chickens as cherished pets, the unique needs of different flocks, and the idea of a "single ladies club" for older hens. It's clear that the path to a happy chicken coop is paved with knowledge, care, and a pinch of laughter at the unexpected.
Wrapping up our heartfelt discussion, we tackle the critical topic of vaccinations and the necessity of being proactive in flock management. From the complexities of securing chicks from hatcheries to the challenges of dealing with a disease-riddled flock, it becomes evident that a stitch in time saves nine—or in our case, a vaccine in time saves the flock. The episode culminates with an uplifting pledge to continue sharing our stories and insights, underscoring the importance of a supportive community in the world of pet companionship. Join us, warm beverage in hand, and find solace in the shared experiences that bond all passionate pet owners together.
Follow Rai here https://www.instagram.com/covidcluckers/
“Where education fuels compassion.”
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
melissa (00:01):
Okay, hi Ray, how are you?
I'm doing good.
How are you, mel?
Well, I just got off a week ofbeing sick as a dog.
I ride it at Christmas time,but you know I just but.
Merry Christmas, happy New Yearand tomorrow, I believe, is
your birthday.
Yes, so happy early birthdayfrom the big numbers over here.
(00:22):
But we have Ray here because,um Well, ray is just an
unlimited amount of information.
She has a flock in the city, soshe is, you know, one of our
special guests that we like tocome on, have on, because she
gives us that, you know,perspective of, you know the
(00:44):
permits and you know all thosethings that a lot of people in
the country don't really have tothink about.
So she represents a prettylarge community of people who
live in the city and Ray'schildren.
But we also have Ray herebecause of a recent illness in
her flock and I think she comeswith a lot of knowledge.
(01:04):
This diagnosis, I think, comeswith a stigma, or yeah, I think
that's the word it does.
Rai (01:13):
You know, that it's.
melissa (01:15):
A lot of people don't talk about it, even though they
might have it, you know, intheir flock, which we'll get
more into that, because a lot ofpeople have it in their flock,
they don't know it and theyprobably they never know it.
But anyway, I'd like tointroduce Ray, a great talker.
She not only is a greatpresence online, she is a dear
(01:35):
friend that we have has apleasure of being friends with
for quite a while since theinternet community, chicken
community.
You know Ray and she has asweet little olive with her.
You cannot see her, but she isthe cutest little thing and she
can tell you more about her, youknow, throughout the
conversation.
But hi, ray, thanks for beinghere.
Rai (01:58):
Yeah, you might hear me yell at olive a lot.
melissa (02:02):
That's okay.
Can you tell us what olive isfor our listeners in a little
bit about olive before we moveon, because she is adorable.
Rai (02:11):
My husband is over here calling her names.
Olive is a Jack Russell terrierand cute little fact about her
she was born on our anniversary.
melissa (02:23):
Oh that you were my favorite right Cuter and cuter.
Rai (02:25):
Oh, so now, well, we were at a couple weddings because of
COVID, but, like now, we'lldefinitely remember this one
because it's her birthday also.
We forget all the time.
It's oh, happy anniversary.
We're like, oh crud, which oneis it?
So you know.
melissa (02:42):
Well, yeah, I completely understand.
I got quite a few doggies hereand I don't know we.
Rai (02:49):
You love them, but you know it's like kids, sometimes you
just yes sometimes you want tojust put them in a closet and
say here, not that I'madvocating that, but you know,
absolutely that's what it is.
melissa (03:03):
Oh yeah, so true, so you are on break.
Rai is a music teacher and sheis currently on break, which I
kind of feel bad, because y'alldon't really get a lot of break
where you are, like our kids.
I don't have any kids in school.
I have a granddaughter, so Ikind of keep up with it, but we,
we haven't had a school longtime ago.
Rai (03:23):
Yeah, we don't get breaks like that.
So where I live, it's the snowis an issue.
I mean people can barely drivein the sunshine, so worse.
So what they end up doing iswe'll get like delays and we'll
get oh my God, the cat, the catjust developed.
But we'll get delays, we'll getsnow days, and that the way
(03:46):
that they are.
Department of Ed doeseverything.
It's by hours, x amount ofhours each year, it's not just
the days, it's got to be hours.
So that's where we end up withless breaks.
And if we get too many snowdays, they'll actually start
taking from our spring break andadding on towards the end of
the year.
melissa (04:05):
Yeah, they kind of do that here, but I don't know.
They have like an unusual snowdays here.
I think we get snow, but notlike consistently, like okay,
it's wintertime, it's going tosnow for the next four months or
something.
So they're not like they willget out of school.
If it's a potential snow storm,a potential, it doesn't even
(04:29):
have to be on the ground, youdon't even have to see it coming
from the sky.
It just if it's a potentialthey get out.
So maybe that's.
Rai (04:37):
Well, I can tell you, we have like really strange weather
here and I teach in twomountain schools, like I'm in
the Appalachian Mountains yeah,appalachian Mountains Like so
we're right there, and therewill be days when, since I live
in the city, we have nothing inthe city, like nothing, maybe
rain, sometimes not even that.
(04:57):
I'll drive to my mountainschools and there's like four to
five inches of snow on theground.
So it's very different, likeour climate is very strange,
just in the small amount ofspace that I'm in, so that
happens a lot with that.
melissa (05:10):
You know, like you'll see, we post pictures of like
four or five inches of snow andthen one year we have like 12
inches of snow and the peopleyou know up the road didn't not
necessarily up the road but, youknow, in another camp, in
another city they didn't haveanything.
But a lot of times the mountainprotects us, like with
tornadoes and things like that.
Rai (05:29):
You know that mountain fall protects us for a lot of things
, yeah, and unfortunately thestorms sometimes go over the
mountain and skipper'scompletely and we're like, no,
we need a snow day, we need tolove everything.
Everybody's sick, Everybody'stired.
We need a snow day and italways does.
melissa (05:48):
Yeah, hold on.
That's also very true, yeah.
Rai (05:53):
Never fails.
melissa (05:54):
But very true, okay.
So how is the bearded claw?
I know it's a little itchy,yeah so, oh, it's okay.
Rai (06:01):
I will enjoy hearing us banter Like yes we love, we love
the bearded claw.
So how are you doing, honey?
He's giving us thumbs down.
We have to go back to worktomorrow too.
melissa (06:13):
Oh yeah, that sucks.
We shouldn't have to work atall.
Rai (06:16):
No, no, we definitely shouldn't.
These chickens need to make usmore money.
They do, they don't.
melissa (06:23):
They just cost money.
Rai (06:24):
Yeah, it's you know better negotiations with like their
agents and they're just not.
melissa (06:30):
Oh, oh my gosh, I know I would.
I wish you know when you'retheir agent.
You know you don't get paidenough anyways, no, and they try
to pay you in corn in it.
Rai (06:42):
That doesn't work.
melissa (06:46):
Huck and just renegotiated up her contract for
the year, so yeah, so I owe hera lot of money this year,
apparently.
Oh well, the good thing is theydon't really know what money is
.
Rai (06:59):
So if, like, you, throw a couple of pennies and it just
looks like a lot, they getreally excited.
I'm going to say what.
melissa (07:03):
Give them a little bit of new worms or something you
know they're like oh, I'm good,you know good, they're like
we're even for now, yeah, fornow.
Some of them are a little bitsmarter.
Some of them are a little bitsmarter.
Rai (07:15):
Yeah, I would.
melissa (07:18):
Chickas are really smart.
Anyways they are, and they cancount Like if I give two maitris
to Princess Leia and, likePersephone, sees that she's like
.
Rai (07:27):
They can count how many treats everybody's getting.
They know what's going on.
They're smarter than peoplegive them credit for, I know,
and they fight over to watchthem, like when they play
football you know, when you givethem one a treat, oh, they're
like teenage girls, it's all.
melissa (07:45):
They're all.
The rest of them want it.
So they start chasing aroundand then they get passed from
one chicken to the next, andthen next, and then they get
passed from one chicken to thenext, and then next and next.
Rai (07:57):
And of course they make that little noise like I found
something cool, but you can'tlike stop making the noise if
you want to keep it, so I and MrJango's.
melissa (08:08):
he alerts all the girls to snips and then they all come
running.
He don't really care.
So as long as he calls them,even when there's no tricks,
they're just.
They're dumb enough to fall forit.
Rai (08:21):
So and he knows that he is, he is.
melissa (08:24):
He's slowing down a lot .
He he don't break out that manyfights.
He does break up a few, but notthat many, and I don't know.
You kind of see him hanging byhimself quite a bit.
He's not sick.
I've had him to trust me.
I've had him to the bedprobably 10 times and he's
perfectly healthy.
He's just.
Rai (08:42):
Now what?
He just knows that thoseheifers are going to take their
errands out.
They're going to start fightingreal mean and he doesn't want
the streets.
I'm telling you.
melissa (08:50):
I don't mean for that.
I wasn't made for it, okay.
Well, in all seriousness, we dokind of want to discuss what's
recently been going on in yourbox, so I'll let you kind of
take over that and you can maybestart from the beginning of how
(09:10):
it started.
Rai (09:12):
I was really, really excited because I've been
watching for the past coupleyears.
Everybody gets their chicks andthey're so cute and they're so
fuzzy and I loved having chicks,like I loved when my girls were
babies.
It was such a big deal for me.
It was like what was getting methrough COVID.
It kept me occupied and we hadthat really nice little bond.
(09:33):
Well, I ended up getting fivenew chicks and they grew up and
they were about like the firstlike incident we had with one of
them getting sick.
They were probably about like10 weeks old and Churro started
showing some weird signs ofthings.
She was very lethargic and justvery sickly and I ended up
(09:56):
having to feed her because shewasn't eating.
And thank God for Erica fromsecond hand, because she was
calling me and telling me allthe things to like pump through
her and so we were doing andMerrick's wasn't even on our
radar at all.
melissa (10:10):
Why wasn't it just to stop for a second?
Rai (10:14):
The reason why is because so Merrick's presents is a lot
of different things and thereare different types of Marek's.
The type we have in our flockis the type where they grow
tumors, so there's no physicalsymptoms on the outside.
It's not like ocular, where,like you're going to see, like
their eyes go gray and lookcataract at a young age, and
(10:36):
it's not like the neurological,where, like you see them just
kind of shaking and like allover the place Like tumors, so
like it wasn't on our radar atall.
And then we had just taken thegirls outside, like they were
just old enough to go outside.
They were probably well, I keptthem inside for a while because
we had smoke and wildfires andlike explosions and all sorts of
(10:58):
stuff here this past year, butthey were probably about three
or four months old when we tookthem outside for the first time
and when I just happened to lookat Bon Bon one day, my
Barnabelder, because I reallywanted Barnabelder, they're so
sweet she was real lethargic,she wasn't moving very fast and
(11:22):
the other girls were picking onher, which was weird because
they were at an age where, likepecking order well, it's a thing
.
It's not like an extreme thing,like how the older girls it's
always pecking order.
They were still snuggling witheach other, they were still
being kind to each other and shewent down quick and,
unfortunately, the way that thetype of Merrick's we have
(11:44):
presents it can look likebotulism, it can look like some
sort of vitamins efficiencyRhinox.
It was very strange how shewent down and she wasn't walking
.
And we tried everything.
We were pumping her full ofvitamins.
We were pumping her.
I was getting ready to treat herfor coxidiosis before she died
(12:08):
and then she died unfortunately.
But she wasn't walking.
She wasn't able to stand.
She had green poop, which is asymptom, and it's not just the
starvation poops, it happened tobe a symptom of it.
So she passed and I ended upsending her off for an acropsy.
Now I'm very lucky In the stateof Maryland we have two labs.
(12:30):
There's one that's on theeastern shore which is about
four hours from me, and thenthere's one that's half a mile
from my house.
So I took her there for theacropsy and they said that they
didn't see anything at first andI ended up paying a little bit
more for the acropsy.
And, by the way, if you get anacropsy done on your chicken and
(12:51):
if it's like my state lab, theywill send you pictures.
So that was a little jarringfor me.
Seeing my chicken opened up,seeing her brainstem, seeing her
lungs, it was very fascinating.
But it's very hard when you'relike this little baby peep that
you had day one is on there.
So just for those people whoare faint of heart, just know
(13:14):
that they'll send pictures.
And they said that they didn'tsee anything at first and I was
like something's not rightbecause it was presenting as
Marix.
Like once I did more researchthey said she had some worms and
they said that she hadcoxidiosis.
But I was like something stillisn't right because coxidiosis
should not have taken her downlike that and neither should
have parasites because theyweren't showing up in her poop.
melissa (13:37):
They weren't like, and she wasn't really that old, she
was still young.
Rai (13:41):
She was about 18 weeks so she was getting ready to lay.
She was at that point of almostlaying so they went through and
they did a further round oftests it was around $50 to get
it done and they found a smalltumor in her lungs and they said
, well, we're not really sure itcould be Marix, but we're not
(14:02):
really sure.
And then three weeks laterbutters went down.
Butters was my little Easteregg, very, very sweet.
They were always picking on herand usually if they're being
picked on, not because they'reat the bottom of the pecking
order, but they're constantlypicking on them.
Check to make sure your chickenisn't sick.
(14:22):
Well, butters fought for maybelike two weeks with this going
on and I knew that there was apossibility of it being Marix.
So we did everything we couldto lower her stress level.
We went through and we weretreating her for coxidiosis and
I got a different medication forit.
It's totorozoral and it's a oneand done versus cork, so it's a
(14:48):
little bit more effective.
It also helps with worms, so Itreated her with that.
A couple of times I was tubefeeding her.
I was giving her all sorts ofnutrients rooster booster,
poultry cell, oregano,everything I was throwing at her
.
She again, presented with theclassic leg pose, could not
stand and she fought for a longtime and it was just sad to
(15:13):
watch and, like every time thatthis was going on, I would turn
to my husband and go I don'tknow, maybe I just need to make
the appointment and have her putdown.
He's like I think she's goingto fight there, because then,
like the minute, I said that shewould like try to stand up when
she would eat, and so she waseating, she was drinking but she
had the pose of marics and thenfinally she just passed.
So I took her in, went throughthe entire necropsy process
(15:38):
again and this time they saidthat she was riddled with tumors
and they took a look at some ofthe nerves and they said that
they were enlarged.
That's another classic sign.
She was way more sick than BonBon was.
So, yeah, I asked people how wecould have gotten it, because
(16:01):
we're pretty tight with we'renot perfect, nobody's perfect
but we're pretty tight with ourbiosecurity and I was really
unsure how it happened.
Now, my girls hadn't reallybeen outside, so that's where,
like, I'm at and I have sometheories, but it could have been
.
I work at country schools, theyhave chickens.
(16:23):
I could have dragged it in.
Maybe I didn't clean off myboots well enough, maybe I wore
a shirt that I wore to work, ormaybe it was a shirt that I had
took to the fair, or a poultrybag that I didn't clean off.
I don't know.
It could also be little ittybitty birds For people who don't
know.
We had a huge explosion hereback in March and when that
(16:46):
happened, we lost all of oursquirrels.
Our hawks have not come back.
Yeah, so we're like inundatedwith these little bitty
songbirds and, of course, yeah,with the songbirds coming back,
they bring all sorts of lovely,fun things, and so they could
have brought Mariks in.
(17:08):
I have a neighbor, frederickChickens, on Instagram.
She's just a couple of housesaway from me.
We're discussing about itbecause we were.
She was like, well, what'sinvolved with the Mariks?
Like how did it happen?
I'm like I don't know.
There's all sorts of ways thatit could have gotten into my
flock.
I do know that I only have twobirds that are vaccinated for
(17:30):
Mariks, and that is PrincessLeia and Blue from my original
production hens.
The rest of them aren'tvaccinated, and for people who
are going to go and pick upchicks this year.
Unless you're buying themdirectly from the hatchery,
they're not going to vaccinatethem.
So I've been working withSecond Hand to find ways that I
(17:53):
can help my girls, because ifthey hadn't gotten sick I
wouldn't have known to be honestwith you, because it's a type
of marix that doesn't presentphysically and it looks like
everything else.
melissa (18:09):
Yeah, especially kids.
I mean, you have a list ofthings that you could choose
from.
That could potentially be marix.
Rai (18:20):
Yeah, and I was wondering if maybe my feed wasn't very
good kind of deal.
I was wondering if maybe theyate something bad.
Maybe I just gave them sometreats that were a little too
old and we went through all ofthat process too, and it was
definitely not botulism.
I wanted to make sure it wasn'tleucosis, which is another
(18:41):
disease that presents directly.
melissa (18:44):
It's not like life marriage.
Yes.
Rai (18:46):
And it's different, like just on a very small cellular
level, that you and I aren'tgoing to be able to tell.
I mean, if I was to open up achicken today, I'd be like, oh,
I don't even know.
So I think that people justneed to be aware it's probably
in your flock.
It's a disease of opportunity.
It will rear its ugly head intimes of stress.
(19:07):
So and we're finally past thetime frame they say between like
eight weeks and 30 weeks,that's most likely when your
birds will be affected by it.
So, like I have one girl rightnow, tato, she hasn't laid and
we're thinking that maybe thestress of getting ready to lay
(19:30):
might have triggered some ofthis in bonbon and butters, but
we're not sure.
melissa (19:36):
Did you get three together?
Rai (19:39):
I got five, yeah.
So I got a bird rock, twobarnabilders, two Easter eggers,
and then Marissa sent mePersephone I'm smell honey and
she's the beautiful thing.
And I was talking with Marissaabout that and she told me that
AM Samanis are more likely to besusceptible to it.
So we're silkies.
(19:59):
So, people, you got to watchout for them.
Polish your fancy chickens.
melissa (20:05):
Any of the fancy chickens.
Rai (20:07):
You know, and I'm sitting here thinking gosh, you know my
girls, as street smart as theyare, like I don't want anything
to happen to them.
I worry about Artemis becauseshe's a fancy chicken but but
she's older and so I know thatthe risk is still there.
But you know, I don't thinkit's as prevalent as, like the
(20:28):
little guys coming in.
If I want to get more chickens,they have to be vaccinated.
I did talk to my vet and it's amixed science out there about
vaccinating older birds, but theway I think of it is it's like
a flu shot.
If you get a flu shot, it's notgoing to stop you from getting
(20:48):
the flu yeah, it's.
It lessens the symptoms.
So the thing that my vet and Idiscussed was you know what?
It's not going to hurt anything.
So we're going to try andvaccinate my girls and so I do
have, like the vaccine here atthe house.
We're going to make a wholevideo on it and show people how
to give a vaccine, because Ithink that's important for
(21:08):
people to know how to do.
It's stressful.
It is stressful, but we'regoing to do it.
It's worth it because it's notgoing to hurt anything.
That was like what I took awayfrom all the studies that I was
reading.
I read one from Penn State andthey were like this could help,
but it's not going to hurtanything.
It's not like you're going togive your chicken marics.
It's not like you're going tocause them to all die.
(21:29):
We do have a closed block, so Iwill not be getting chicks
anytime soon or birds anytimesoon.
melissa (21:38):
Yeah, these are some of the questions I have for you,
so you're like actually justanswering them.
Yeah, no, that's great, becausethat's things that you know we
want people like how did itpresent itself?
How do you lower the risk of?
You know, like we said, it'sprobably in your block.
I don't have a single chickenat my or ever that's ever been
(22:00):
vaccinated, like ever in thelast 15 years.
We do a lot of I don't buy livebirds and I buy a bunch of eggs
.
We hatch here, so there, yeah,and so the risk is still there.
Is what I'm trying to say, butit doesn't always.
You know, obviously we don'twant anyone to freak out, but we
also want them to be a wicker.
Rai (22:22):
Yes, and it's, and it does come from dander.
So you can test with, like aPCR test, like if you take one
of the feathers it'll have thedander on it and you can have a
lab do a PCR test on it to tellyou whether or not they're
shedding the virus actively.
melissa (22:40):
Yeah, you can do that now.
Yeah, like when they're alive.
Rai (22:43):
Yeah, so your bird doesn't have to be dead for you to be
able to test for marics.
So that's like the good newsbecause, like I always thought,
oh wow, if they have marics, doI have to call them first and
then send them off for anacropsy?
Or, like you know, what can Ido to make sure that I know
what's going on?
I know what's going on here.
If you're getting hatching eggs, it's not transmissible from
(23:04):
mama to egg.
So if you think you have maricsin your flock, you're going to
have to use an incubator andthen that's me.
melissa (23:13):
Yeah, we had another.
We marry.
I know you know marry, but yeslost nearly all of her entire
flock to Marics, and then that's.
We've always felt that theywould be a.
It's scary.
I can imagine is what I'mtrying to say, but I couldn't
imagine what you're having inface.
(23:34):
But you're doing it in a waythat is always vulnerable and
you're you're looking to helpother people.
Rai (23:42):
And what's so sad about Mary's case is she has the
neurological one and you see it,and when she has shown and I
had some heart breaking when sheshows the symptoms of those and
she's she's doing it to teachpeople and it's just you can
hear the pain in her voice andshe is just such an angel person
(24:04):
.
You know she's just wonderfuland so like to see her just so
upset and sad, like what I'mgoing through is totally
different because it's internal,but you can see what's going on
with her flock and it justbreaks my heart for her.
melissa (24:18):
There was several of the last ones, I think that me
and her message, I mean like foran hour until it.
You know, her baby, thatfinally it's because you just
help us.
There's absolutely nothinganyway.
Rai (24:34):
You really can't stop it.
It's going to do what it'sgoing to do, but it is a herpes
virus.
It's a lot like chicken pox.
We all have.
Those of us who went to thechicken pox parties, you know.
I mean, like the young peopleand millennials probably know
about the chicken party.
melissa (24:53):
Because my, my older millennials, they actually had
the vaccine.
So when it first first firstcame out, my kid my oldest kid,
was one of the in the trials forchicken pox shot the vaccine
and she got chicken pox.
Rai (25:07):
She's lucky.
But I mean, like even when wewere going up and we were going
to those chicken pox parties, Iknew people who had gotten
chicken pox more than ones.
The time around wasn't as bad.
melissa (25:17):
And then my sister got it, my baby sister that passed
away.
She was in her 30s and she gotit twice in the same year.
I'm not talking shingles, Imean, right now, chicken pox.
Rai (25:28):
Yeah, I mean my husband, you haven't had chicken pox,
have you?
Yeah, and you know, wheneverthey're like, oh there's chicken
pox at school, I'm like, so Ihave to watch out for it.
But you know, again, thevaccines are going to help with
that, but it's going to be avirus that's always in their
body, because it's a herpesvirus.
It's just, it's always there.
(25:49):
One way I know that something'sup.
It's also called the wastingdisease.
So if you start to notice thatyour birds are starting to get
thinner, start putting on theB12s, start giving them all the
vitamins, start giving them moreoregano.
I'm not normally a person who'slike the healing power of Italy
(26:09):
, but like the oregano has beenhelpful, but just help boost
them.
melissa (26:13):
It does help when you're adding in other, you know
.
And nothing against oregano,but on its own obviously we're
not.
No, I'm not saying it's a cure,it's helpful.
Rai (26:26):
I mean like listen, we're not going to go out there and
dump our spice cabinet out therefor them.
But you know, adding theadditives to the water, do you
think they can kind of get theircalories up?
I know people are justabsolutely dead sent against
heat.
This year I've had a heaterrunning in my coop because I
don't want them burning thecalories and getting stressed
(26:47):
with the different temperatures.
melissa (26:50):
Your situation is different, right?
So that's what we advocate for,that we're not telling you
across the board.
You shouldn't use heat at all.
Yeah, I know, Use it wisely.
Use it wisely and research whattype of heat.
And yeah, obviously they needto stay warm.
Rai (27:06):
Well, I worry about their calorie deficit more than
anything else and if they don'tworry about keeping warm, their
body can focus on fighting otherthings.
And I've also been doing thatbecause Leia with her cancer,
it's been helping her.
Yeah, my whole floxomess we'rejust like a grab bag of disease
over here and you know it's beena lot of time.
(27:27):
Oh, it's been a horriblelearning opportunity.
But if I can help other peoplethen it's worth it.
But with my heater the onlything I do is maybe put it so
that it's like 10 degrees warmer.
So it's not a huge shift, butit's just enough so they can go
and cuddle up against it.
They can get warm and go dowhat they need to do.
melissa (27:48):
I have a chick a chick cozy heater in my van and pin.
Oh, those are the best, oh, letme because they're just, they
don't have a lot of meat ontheir bones.
Anyways, they're just a smallbreed, so when you pick them up,
most of what they are is justbetter.
They're so cute, they lookfluffy and they're not
underweight.
They're just, they don't have alot of meat on them.
(28:08):
So I do have a cozy heater, oneof the radiant heaters, just in
there in their coop.
Rai (28:16):
Yeah, but the good rule of thumb is is when you pick them
up, you can feel their keel boneand If you can also feel like a
little bit of, like you know,breast around the keel bone,
they're okay.
But like, if you like, eventhink for one, second them,
maybe they're too thin.
They're probably too thin.
I've been very aware of theprotein amounts that I've been
(28:39):
giving them, so I tried to givethem like extra veg and I've
been giving them more corn rightnow, so like I haven't been
like shoving a ton of grubs atthem because I don't want them
to have kidney issues.
melissa (28:51):
So it's fine balance of two routine not enough protein,
not enough carbohydrates.
Especially when you have achicken in your situation and
definitely when you go intowinter, you should, I think, of
the carbohydrates before youhave any kind of fat or protein.
Rai (29:08):
Yeah, and I mean like sometimes, like I might like
give them something with alittle bit more fat in there,
but I try not to because again,I want them to have balance.
I don't want them to have cropissues like it's just such a
fine line with doing all of thisand then like go back to the
feed conspiracy thing.
Seriously, just start with yourbase feet to start with your
(29:30):
base feed and go from there,because that's like your
baseline for everything.
Like you could sit there andyou could have all these tons of
conspiracies out the window.
I don't believe any of it.
I think it's all horse, youknow what.
But um, it is.
It's absolutely.
It's just absolutely.
melissa (29:48):
So I spent all last year fighting that I'm not going
into 2028 for this year with it.
No, I'm not.
Rai (29:55):
I'm not fighting it.
You want to be stupid?
Awesome.
If you want to believe somerando on the internet without
doing any research, awesome.
But like always do your ownresearch, even like I feel
pretty educated in things andI've talked to professionals,
but like don't just go.
Hey, oh well, ray said this.
No, go and research it, becausewhat's good for my flock isn't
good for your flock Absolutely.
Because you have roosters.
(30:16):
I don't have roosters yeah,that's a whole different bug and
I don't have hens that arehatching babies.
I don't have babies.
I got fully grown hens and someof them are geriatric and some
of them are just teenagers.
But you know, what's good formy flock isn't necessarily good
for everybody else's.
melissa (30:32):
So I just Ready a finally love right.
This is one of the reasons whywe love right.
Rai (30:37):
There is a mini Huge list of why we love right, but I hope
people right now are like yeah,I agree with that, like that's
open, I'm hoping there in thecars going yeah, yeah, you know.
melissa (30:48):
That's right, that's absolutely right.
Your block is your block andthat's what we definitely, ray
and I, that's what we cut.
We are definitely on the samepage when you know we don't all
have to do the exact same.
Rai (31:02):
And and stay out of the Facebook groups.
If you tell somebody you have amerits positive flock, they're
gonna be like oh kill your birds, Just come on.
melissa (31:10):
They like hold the whole thing and start over.
Rai (31:13):
I'm like for some people, if that might work.
melissa (31:16):
You know if I if they're not attached to.
Maybe their only goal isproduction as an eggs and you
know, possibly you know in thattype of way, but the way that
companion chickens is now athing and it's a huge thing,
there's a large community ofpeople who just have chickens.
(31:39):
You know they of course theylike the ace and that's a right,
that's it.
But they're pets, they'reactually just pets.
And then the marketing world ifthey would catch onto that.
You know there's huge UntappedAvenue of money because chicken
moments and chicken daddy's loveto drop money on their face is
(32:00):
anything but the chicken on it,we're buying it.
Rai (32:07):
If I could find stuff with more hens on it and not just the
beautiful roosters, I'm Bitingit like people don't understand.
I mean, my whole family evensaid they were like you're so
much easier to shop for sinceyou got Chickens.
We just find you something witha chicken on it.
I just want a kid.
melissa (32:23):
Yeah, oh yeah, absolutely 100%.
Rai (32:27):
But you don't have to fill your whole flock.
You don't have to.
I mean obviously, like now thatI know what's going on with my
girls, I can make a moreinformed decision.
If I see somebody suffering,I'm gonna obviously be like, no,
what, this is what it is, and Ican maybe ease their suffering
a lot quicker, because therethere really is no recovery from
(32:47):
it.
People who are thinking, oh,you can nurse them back to
health the ocular one, I thinkI'm not gonna give a definitive
answer.
melissa (32:55):
I'm not a veterinarian, but there are situations that
possibly they could recover andcontinue on yeah, but I do know
that, like gail dammer has said,it's an 80% Mortality rate.
Rai (33:07):
I will go by her, like her stuff is like the Bible for me,
so, and that's what people needto realize.
But if you know like, oh, it'sMerrick's, okay, well, if I
start seeing the chicken showingSymptoms of it, I'm gonna be
calling my bet and we're gonnabe having a conversation a lot
quicker than me thinking, ohwell, maybe it's just this, you
know.
melissa (33:26):
Yeah, and then I have to suffer for longer than they
really should and and they willfight.
Rai (33:33):
And again, keep in mind, chickens are prey animals.
They will not show theirsymptoms until they can't hide
them anymore.
So it's usually too late by thetime you see the symptoms.
And I think that's an importantpart of being with your birds
you know something's wrong ifyou're out there with them a lot
and you're like, oh well, thisis, this is funny, they're
acting just a little off,they're real subtle with,
(33:55):
sometimes with the way theybehave, but they're not feeling
good.
But if you're out there and youknow your birds, you'll be like
, huh, that little spidey sensegoes off and you get that gut
feeling.
You're like no one.
Maybe I ought to do this.
Like I know I've got somepeople sneezing right now Out in
my coop and so, like thismorning I went out there and I
gave them a bunch of like extravitamins.
I fermented some feed for them,just preventative stuff,
(34:18):
because like that little gutfeelings going off like if you
don't take care of this now,it's gonna snow, it's not worse.
melissa (34:24):
Yep, absolutely.
That's why we always say thendo your little chicken checkups
and if you spend enough timewith them, you will know.
And it is it.
Because I'm like, robert,there's some going on with this
one here, just for instance, andhe's like no, there's not,
there's nothing wrong.
I'm like, yeah, they're likeshe walked.
She walked weird for 1.2seconds up.
(34:45):
Something is happening with her, and it usually always is
something.
Rai (34:51):
Hell check is being nice.
You need to watch out.
melissa (34:53):
She is.
She's getting picked on rightnow, which is yeah, I Checked
her over, I didn't see anything,but she's at least six it.
I have to go back and look, butat least six might be time for
her to go to the retirementcommunity.
Yeah, she may be going over tothe single ladies club because
we made a single ladies club andit's a woman that right.
(35:15):
Yeah, Wilma's and willow wouldnot participate any longer in
with mr Jamos.
She is in the single ladiesgroup.
Rai (35:23):
She's believer it.
melissa (35:26):
She is, her hair is.
Rai (35:29):
You look so pretty glitter.
I love it.
melissa (35:32):
She's all they didn't know.
Yeah, she just had whitefeathers coming, which is crazy.
That's just part of thegenetics.
Rai (35:40):
But she looks so pretty though she always looks good.
Yeah, that's how we've beenfeeling about Leia.
melissa (35:47):
That's how is she doing though?
Rai (35:50):
Um, every time we drain her , we take her in to get drained.
The fluid has been kind of likebeer colored is the best way to
describe it, and that is asymptom of like organ failure.
So she's an active organfailure, um, but otherwise, like
she's molten, looks beautifuland like she's beat a crap out
of her flock.
(36:10):
Persephone her her name wasoriginally Princess Leia and
their best friends and it is youto watch them together Until
Persephone takes them over food,and then it's not good.
melissa (36:24):
They are, I don't know, my potions, since it since,
well, since winter kind ofstarted.
They just, they just been namedeach other.
I mean really mean the littleones beat up the big ones.
Rai (36:37):
And it's short girls and syndrome.
We're closer to hell, you know.
melissa (36:43):
Well, they're only five foot one.
I probably can't play till alittle bit.
Rai (36:47):
Yeah, I understand.
I'm like barely five, three.
melissa (36:49):
So when you mentioned about where you got the chicks
from and I know a lot of peoplecoming march they're gonna be
getting chicks.
There are a lot of places thatdon't vaccinate, or maybe people
are not aware that they don'tvaccinate, like if your goal is
to get vaccinated chicks Goingto your local feed store.
I don't.
(37:10):
I know here our local feedstores do not vaccinate.
Rai (37:14):
I don't.
As a general practice, it seemsto be that they don't Like the
even some of the local breedersyou have to ask.
melissa (37:22):
You know you want vaccinated.
I know you're not going tomention the name and that's fine
.
You don't have to mention whereyou got them, but Did you think
that they were vaccinated?
Did you even think about um?
Should I vaccinate them?
I just kind of that way can.
Maybe people are thinking youknow how to explain to them that
(37:43):
they just because you'regetting it from a breeder online
or ordering chicks, doesn'tmean they're automatically
vaccinating them.
Rai (37:52):
So if you go in and you order chicks, some places will
allow you to say like, hey,listen, I want, I want them
vaccinated, and they'll tack ona fee.
Um, if you buy directly fromthe hatchery, you can definitely
make this happen.
I Actually, the place I gotmine this is like the cool thing
about them that I reallyappreciated they gave me a
little sheet of paper and onthat sheet of paper, told me the
(38:14):
batch number of the chicks,told me when they were hatched
it's just a hatchery that theycame from and I contact, just
full disclosure.
I searched the hatchery withthe word marix and it came up
and they told me when I emailedthem that they couldn't tell me.
I was like, but I have thebatch number, I have the
(38:36):
receipts, like, this is whereyou, I got them from, and they
refused to talk to me at all.
But some of those backyardchicken groups, less marics.
So, um, I will be doing betterresearch next time and I will
not purchase from that hatchery.
Now, I'm not going to put themon blast because maybe they f-ed
up, you know, but, um, ifyou're going through somebody
(38:56):
who is MPIP, they won't havemarics in their flock.
They test for all of that.
Um, there's a breeder up bywhere I work and I just looked
at their website and they onlysell vaccinated chicks for
marics.
They don't vaccinate againstcoccidiosis because your birds
are going to get that eventually, but exposed Like here.
melissa (39:16):
we don't vaccinate for coccidiosis, but they they get
exposed to their mom.
Rai (39:22):
Yeah, I mean they're going to eventually be, they're going
to have it in their systemeventually, and it only gets bad
when the load becomes too muchfor them to deal with.
melissa (39:31):
So um, what do you mean to like try and make you feel
like.
I don't want you to think thatI meant like you did it.
You didn't do enough research.
Oh no, I don't mean that.
You know that.
I would never mean that.
No, I mean like if someone's inyour position and they're new,
you know just getting new chicks, and that is a huge concern,
(39:51):
cause when you hear marics andthe chicken community, it's like
yeah, yeah, freak out.
Rai (39:57):
So, like a Bola, like people, like yeah, I think the
thing is is that if you're goingto be a new chicken keeper and
you're going to do this, ask forthe batch number, ask for the
hatchery, like you're going downto one of these, you know giant
, you know feed stores and and Iwill tell you my favorite feed
store, I did not purchase chicksfrom them.
(40:17):
So, um, you know, ask for thosedetails, ask for the batch
number, because they they, ifthey're going to be shipping
chicks, the hatchery itself issupplying to these big chain
stores.
If they're going to be shippingthese chicks, they have to have
a paper trail.
So you should be entitled tothat knowledge as well.
Because what if you get a chickthat's like really, really sick
(40:40):
or it's that really badgenetics and you want to know
about it?
Or you know what if God forbidit?
Like they have MichaelPlasmosis, which they shouldn't.
But you know what happened.
What happened?
I would be filed a paper trail.
So that's something for peopleto know.
But just know that if you'rebuying from one of these big
feed stores, they do notvaccinate their chicks.
You're going to have to do ityourself, which on a little tiny
(41:04):
chick, I don't know if I coulddo, but, um, like it's hard
enough for the big girls givingthem any type of like shot, but,
like with little guys, they'reso small.
But there is a way to do it andI'm going to find out how to do
it and then teach peoplebecause I think that's important
.
But just follow the paper trail, ask for those things.
Don't feel embarrassed to askfor that hatcheries and PIP
(41:25):
number, because if something'sgoing wrong and like they missed
it because I think testing, youwould have to ask Marissa,
because I don't know much aboutthe whole process because I
can't go through it, but I knowthat they only test once or
twice a year and they canabsolutely slip through the
cracks.
They may not test the bird thathas that.
melissa (41:43):
There is in our state.
If you have a certain number inyour thought, then you have to
test all of your, you know, asmaller, a smaller flock.
I believe that you can do.
We looked into this a whileback and we just we never I got
too many other things on them,but depending on your state, but
that's neither here nor there.
(42:04):
But yeah, I mean, if the IP isusually always the best way to
go, it doesn't mean that you'renot going to get any illnesses,
because there's illnesses thatthey just don't test for.
They only test for so many.
That's a good place to start,though, if you're going to order
, if I was going to, if I'mgoing to order chicks again.
Rai (42:21):
It would either be from the local place, but they don't.
They do street runs and I can'thave roosters.
And as much as I would love aleg bar army, I don't all leg
bars.
The hairspray would just be toomuch for everybody.
You know I probably order fromlike McMurray.
I don't know if you deal withthem, but I like them a lot.
They've been very nice to me.
melissa (42:42):
I know that I've ordered from McMurray, we get
our hatching eggs from a localbreeder here.
You know we never had an issuewith eating type viruses.
The only thing we'd have that Iwould say the proxy that we
have, the proxy here is forfending the birth syndrome, and
that's obviously just genetic.
It's not something that's to be.
(43:03):
Yeah.
Rai (43:05):
They keep us on our toes, don't they?
Yeah?
melissa (43:08):
It's always something like it's so much Nice, they all
back in the old day, you knowyou didn't have all these
diseases for chicken.
You did.
And I'm like, yeah, you did,you just didn't know what, noted
, they just fell dead and thenyou were like dinner, it's
dinner and I'm basically it'sall like like I see my husband
because raw they they raisechickens here when he was a
(43:29):
little kid and I mean he's oldand syrup, so, um, they've had
chickens here forever and if oneof them happened to die, and my
mom grew up on a farm and shetold me right after her question
.
Rai (43:43):
She said like I don't know, she's like if they were sick,
we would just put them down andwe'd have them on the dinner
table, like, and I'm like, well,there's nothing wrong with that
.
You're feeding your familyAwesome.
melissa (43:53):
Awesome, yes, absolutely Like I'll put that
out there.
Rai (43:57):
You know, it's not what I would personally choose to do.
Um, they also didn't have anytype of close relationship with
their birds.
It was like oh, they're,they're out there.
We have chickens.
Oh, you know, they were a foodsource and that's what they were
meant to be, and there'snothing wrong with that.
For anybody who might think ohno, there's nothing wrong with
(44:17):
that, you feed your family, youdo it's best for you.
Again, what you do in your coopis what you do in your coop.
It's not my cup.
melissa (44:23):
What are you, what are your plans?
Do you, are you at your maxwhere you live, of how many
birds you can have?
Yes, oh, for your max, I havesix of her.
Rai (44:37):
We actually um the bearded clown.
I we purchased our, his dad's,my father-in-law's house and
it's out in the country andthere's about an acre and it's
farm country and we can dowhatever we want.
We can have roosters out there.
So in like 10 years or so we'llprobably move out there, once
we're ready to retire, and justkeep doing what we're doing.
(45:00):
But if I'm going to addanything to my flock, I think
I'm just going to let my flockdiminish until it's not socially
healthy for them anymore.
Like you really shouldn't haveone or two together.
Like that's cause.
Once one dies and it's all byitself it's not good.
They're social preachers.
But um, well, if we're going toadd anybody, it's going to
(45:24):
vaccinate it birds and I knowthere's this whole who fly you
shouldn't mix it.
Vaccinate with unvaccinated, itdoesn't matter.
At the end of the day, once,like they're either going to get
it or they're not.
You know, yeah.
melissa (45:35):
Yeah, there's a whole big discussion on it, and I mean
a huge discussion, um,depending on where you look, you
know, like in groups and onlineand stuff.
I kind of feel the same way asyou do.
Rai (45:49):
You know it's at the end of the day.
You know what I mean.
I haven't had my flu shot, butsome so has like, oh, we're not
going to mingle because Ihaven't had my.
You know it just causes toomuch, you know we see stress of
the bird, headaches of the bird.
melissa (46:04):
Um, you know, all of those things play factor into.
Is it going to present itself?
You know, are they curing it?
And they're not going to.
They.
They go their whole life andyou would never know it.
Like not necessarily.
I mean like internal symptoms,I mean like they don't present
any.
You know they just died.
Rai (46:24):
Natural causes and I mean, like what they could pass away
from isn't necessarily like the,the, the crops that I have,
isn't?
They died of marics.
It was died of something else,with marics as a complication,
like it wasn't the main cause.
Um, you know, we're not goingto have silks.
I, they're adorable.
I I love watching other peoplehave them.
(46:45):
There is too much work involvedwith them and Polish adorable
don't want them.
So you know, we're going toprobably pick breeds that are a
little bit more hearty when itcomes to that, if we're going to
decide to add anything.
And you know I'm I'm obsessedwith the Samanis now.
So thanks, marissa, I'mobsessed, she's so cute.
(47:06):
But they would have to bevaccinated before they show up
at my door, kind of deal.
But I think it's all going tobe fine.
It's just I know what to lookfor.
Now is the big thing, and youknow I'm hoping that they all go
through their lives and neverpresent anything and just live
nice, happy lives.
There's no reason for them tobe stressed.
It's not like they have jobs,it's not like they're paying
(47:27):
bills.
You know they don't have toworry or food is coming from.
melissa (47:31):
I know they just wake up and stare at you.
Rai (47:35):
They just have to scream and say I want more food and
it's it's brought to them, so Idon't understand the stress.
melissa (47:44):
That's I mean for our listeners.
Obviously you could go over afew things of what stress would
mean to a bird.
You know small spaces.
Yada, yada, yada.
Rai (47:53):
Yeah, Space is a huge issue with birds.
They like their own personalspace.
They enjoy invading otherpeople's personal space If they
want that space.
The pecking order can besomething stressful.
I don't have roosters.
I know that roosters can causestress.
Not having a rooster can causestress.
I know my girls get freaked outwhen they see an airplane.
melissa (48:14):
How do new members, you know, changing their
environment, all those things?
Rai (48:18):
I mean even changing the water or changing the feeder.
They're not like change, theyare creatures of habit and they
want it a certain way.
And you know, I have this cutelittle puppy that I want to
introduce and I can't do it yetbecause she's too wild for them.
So I don't want to stress themout with the puppy coming at
(48:39):
them and a perceived threat,because that's the last thing
they need.
melissa (48:43):
I mean, you just answered one question Right
after another that I had.
No.
No, that's good.
That's good that we want.
We want more your voice andless of my voice.
So you know what I mean.
Like we want to hear from you,we want you to educate our
followers.
Does it matter?
You know?
Like I'm not here to educate,I'm here to facilitate you, to
(49:05):
educate I as a teacher, Iunderstand this.
Whether I know something or notis not the point here.
We want you to educate others,so if you have something else
you want to share, then I wantyou to really share it.
Rai (49:19):
I think, like the big thing is we need to have
conversations about Merrick'sand Stop making it be this end,
all be all.
You know there are ways toprevent it from going to other
flocks good biosecurity.
I found this really awesomespray for my clothes.
You know, I can use and I canshow.
I think it's called synergizeor something, and if you dilute
(49:41):
it a little bit, you can justspray it down on your coop
clothes.
I I'm gonna be putting it on myshoes when I go down the street
to go see Frederick chickensbecause I'm helping her with
something.
I'm gonna make sure that I'mtaking the correct precautions,
but it needs to stop being this.
You know what we're just.
It's like avian flu.
We're just gonna burneverything to the ground and
(50:02):
forget about it.
It's not like that.
It is sad.
It is very sad to watch if youhappen.
So I Think it's fun to talkabout having those hard
conversations.
melissa (50:15):
Yeah, I think those conversations are important and,
like I said in the beginning,there's like this blue thing,
you know, people who would haveMerrick's in their block, a lot
of them that they probably notgonna talk to anybody because
they're just it's like in theirstatement or something Is what I
.
I feel like they are.
Rai (50:34):
They are bears that they let this happen you know, that
definitely went through my brainbecause I was like, oh my god,
I sit here and preachbiosecurity all the time and
like I work really hard to makesure that I'm doing the correct
things.
How on earth did this happen?
And then, like you see, likethe people taking their chicken
(50:55):
to the feed for, and you're like, how do they not have something
?
You know, and we, we workreally hard to be very careful,
but no one's perfect and thathas been a huge like Life lesson
for me and like it wasextremely humbling to have that
happen because, like I saidthere, and I get upset, I'm like
, wow, I know all all thesepeople that, like they don't use
(51:16):
hardware cloth, they'reconstantly dealing with
predators breaking into theircoop and run like half their
flock gets wiped out.
And I've got this and I workreally hard to make sure that my
girls live the life and are assafe as possible.
And it just it hurts my heartto know that it's there, but I
can only do so much.
I can't get on like a virallevel and stop things.
melissa (51:40):
Oh yeah, absolutely not , and that's what I'm saying.
We shouldn't expect otherchicken keepers, you know, and
they shouldn't feel embarrassedmy flock could have barracks and
I have no idea.
It's not presented itself, butthat doesn't mean it's not there
or may become there at somepoint.
Rai (51:58):
It doesn't, it's more a collection of us at all.
melissa (52:01):
Completely it goes under the People taking their
chickens attractor supply, whichwe we always tell you do not
take your chicken attractorsupply but they they may never
get married.
Oh, but that's just the way itis.
But you can do things like yousaid.
You know be cautious of whereyou get your chickens.
(52:22):
You know if you're gettingchicks, definitely be cautious
if you're adding adult chickensinto younger chickens that that
can cause an issue.
You know, because they're stillyoung and they're vulnerable to
, you know, sexual, to be sickand illnesses.
Rai (52:39):
Oh, something else with the Merrick's vaccine.
If you have vaccinated chicks,you want to keep everything
separate for a very long periodof time, like I know that it's
like you know, eight or nineweeks.
I would go even further thanthat.
That's just me.
I have like the ability to dothat, but not everybody does.
But you again want to practicelike the biosecurity with your
(53:01):
chicks because they are the mostvulnerable, up until 30
something weeks.
So just keep that in mind, likethey're the most vulnerable and
I know that like we're tryingto introduce them to a whole
different, like whole differenttype of biome, like all
different viruses that are outthere.
Just be aware that it couldtake your chicks down pretty
quick and that's heartbreakingtoo.
(53:22):
Just they're just, it's alittle oh.
melissa (53:26):
Well, we appreciate everything that you've shared
today.
We're always so grateful.
I know it's.
This is raise a break, andwe've tried to set this podcast
up for For a while now, but I'vebeen sick all week this flu so,
but I'm feeling a lot better.
We're grateful for all yourinformation and if our listeners
(53:46):
have it, if you've had an issueof various or you feel like you
Need someone to talk to, youcould always say Ray, a DM, or
you can send me, obviously, theDM.
We don't claim to be any typeof Veterinary professionals, but
there is a general knowledgethat we can share and we can do
(54:08):
in touch with others who havemore, maybe more knowledge of
that, and it's good to have asupport system.
Rai (54:13):
That's like having a support system.
I mean, if nothing else, likeif I can't help you, I'm just
gonna sit there and be like I amso sorry because I Feel your
pain, I empathize with your pain.
So Betty, betty has just saidthat she's my anxious, shits you
.
She's so sweet, she is a sweet.
melissa (54:33):
But we appreciate you and we appreciate all of our
listeners and We'll see you nexttime, rai.
Okay, thanks, have a good onenow.
Okay, hi Ray, how are you?
I'm doing good.
How are you, mel?
Well, I just got off a week ofbeing sick as a dog.
I ride it at Christmas time,but you know I just but.
Merry Christmas, happy New Yearand tomorrow, I believe, is
your birthday.
Yes, so happy early birthdayfrom the big numbers over here.
(00:22):
But we have Ray here because,um Well, ray is just an
unlimited amount of information.
She has a flock in the city, soshe is, you know, one of our
special guests that we like tocome on, have on, because she
gives us that, you know,perspective of, you know the
(00:44):
permits and you know all thosethings that a lot of people in
the country don't really have tothink about.
So she represents a prettylarge community of people who
live in the city and Ray'schildren.
But we also have Ray herebecause of a recent illness in
her flock and I think she comeswith a lot of knowledge.
(01:04):
This diagnosis, I think, comeswith a stigma, or yeah, I think
that's the word it does.
Rai (01:13):
You know, that it's.
melissa (01:15):
A lot of people don't talk about it, even though they
might have it, you know, intheir flock, which we'll get
more into that, because a lot ofpeople have it in their flock,
they don't know it and theyprobably they never know it.
But anyway, I'd like tointroduce Ray, a great talker.
She not only is a greatpresence online, she is a dear
(01:35):
friend that we have has apleasure of being friends with
for quite a while since theinternet community, chicken
community.
You know Ray and she has asweet little olive with her.
You cannot see her, but she isthe cutest little thing and she
can tell you more about her, youknow, throughout the
conversation.
But hi, ray, thanks for beinghere.
Rai (01:58):
Yeah, you might hear me yell at olive a lot.
melissa (02:02):
That's okay.
Can you tell us what olive isfor our listeners in a little
bit about olive before we moveon, because she is adorable.
Rai (02:11):
My husband is over here calling her names.
Olive is a Jack Russell terrierand cute little fact about her
she was born on our anniversary.
melissa (02:23):
Oh that you were my favorite right Cuter and cuter.
Rai (02:25):
Oh, so now, well, we were at a couple weddings because of
COVID, but, like now, we'lldefinitely remember this one
because it's her birthday also.
We forget all the time.
It's oh, happy anniversary.
We're like, oh crud, which oneis it?
So you know.
melissa (02:42):
Well, yeah, I completely understand.
I got quite a few doggies hereand I don't know we.
Rai (02:49):
You love them, but you know it's like kids, sometimes you
just yes sometimes you want tojust put them in a closet and
say here, not that I'madvocating that, but you know,
absolutely that's what it is.
melissa (03:03):
Oh yeah, so true, so you are on break.
Rai is a music teacher and sheis currently on break, which I
kind of feel bad, because y'alldon't really get a lot of break
where you are, like our kids.
I don't have any kids in school.
I have a granddaughter, so Ikind of keep up with it, but we,
we haven't had a school longtime ago.
Rai (03:23):
Yeah, we don't get breaks like that.
So where I live, it's the snowis an issue.
I mean people can barely drivein the sunshine, so worse.
So what they end up doing iswe'll get like delays and we'll
get oh my God, the cat, the catjust developed.
But we'll get delays, we'll getsnow days, and that the way
(03:46):
that they are.
Department of Ed doeseverything.
It's by hours, x amount ofhours each year, it's not just
the days, it's got to be hours.
So that's where we end up withless breaks.
And if we get too many snowdays, they'll actually start
taking from our spring break andadding on towards the end of
the year.
melissa (04:05):
Yeah, they kind of do that here, but I don't know.
They have like an unusual snowdays here.
I think we get snow, but notlike consistently, like okay,
it's wintertime, it's going tosnow for the next four months or
something.
So they're not like they willget out of school.
If it's a potential snow storm,a potential, it doesn't even
(04:29):
have to be on the ground, youdon't even have to see it coming
from the sky.
It just if it's a potentialthey get out.
So maybe that's.
Rai (04:37):
Well, I can tell you, we have like really strange weather
here and I teach in twomountain schools, like I'm in
the Appalachian Mountains yeah,appalachian Mountains Like so
we're right there, and therewill be days when, since I live
in the city, we have nothing inthe city, like nothing, maybe
rain, sometimes not even that.
(04:57):
I'll drive to my mountainschools and there's like four to
five inches of snow on theground.
So it's very different, likeour climate is very strange,
just in the small amount ofspace that I'm in, so that
happens a lot with that.
melissa (05:10):
You know, like you'll see, we post pictures of like
four or five inches of snow andthen one year we have like 12
inches of snow and the peopleyou know up the road didn't not
necessarily up the road but, youknow, in another camp, in
another city they didn't haveanything.
But a lot of times the mountainprotects us, like with
tornadoes and things like that.
Rai (05:29):
You know that mountain fall protects us for a lot of things
, yeah, and unfortunately thestorms sometimes go over the
mountain and skipper'scompletely and we're like, no,
we need a snow day, we need tolove everything.
Everybody's sick, Everybody'stired.
We need a snow day and italways does.
melissa (05:48):
Yeah, hold on.
That's also very true, yeah.
Rai (05:53):
Never fails.
melissa (05:54):
But very true, okay.
So how is the bearded claw?
I know it's a little itchy,yeah so, oh, it's okay.
Rai (06:01):
I will enjoy hearing us banter Like yes we love, we love
the bearded claw.
So how are you doing, honey?
He's giving us thumbs down.
We have to go back to worktomorrow too.
melissa (06:13):
Oh yeah, that sucks.
We shouldn't have to work atall.
Rai (06:16):
No, no, we definitely shouldn't.
These chickens need to make usmore money.
They do, they don't.
melissa (06:23):
They just cost money.
Rai (06:24):
Yeah, it's you know better negotiations with like their
agents and they're just not.
melissa (06:30):
Oh, oh my gosh, I know I would.
I wish you know when you'retheir agent.
You know you don't get paidenough anyways, no, and they try
to pay you in corn in it.
Rai (06:42):
That doesn't work.
melissa (06:46):
Huck and just renegotiated up her contract for
the year, so yeah, so I owe hera lot of money this year,
apparently.
Oh well, the good thing is theydon't really know what money is
.
Rai (06:59):
So if, like, you, throw a couple of pennies and it just
looks like a lot, they getreally excited.
I'm going to say what.
melissa (07:03):
Give them a little bit of new worms or something you
know they're like oh, I'm good,you know good, they're like
we're even for now, yeah, fornow.
Some of them are a little bitsmarter.
Some of them are a little bitsmarter.
Rai (07:15):
Yeah, I would.
melissa (07:18):
Chickas are really smart.
Anyways they are, and they cancount Like if I give two maitris
to Princess Leia and, likePersephone, sees that she's like
.
Rai (07:27):
They can count how many treats everybody's getting.
They know what's going on.
They're smarter than peoplegive them credit for, I know,
and they fight over to watchthem, like when they play
football you know, when you givethem one a treat, oh, they're
like teenage girls, it's all.
melissa (07:45):
They're all.
The rest of them want it.
So they start chasing aroundand then they get passed from
one chicken to the next, andthen next, and then they get
passed from one chicken to thenext, and then next and next.
Rai (07:57):
And of course they make that little noise like I found
something cool, but you can'tlike stop making the noise if
you want to keep it, so I and MrJango's.
melissa (08:08):
he alerts all the girls to snips and then they all come
running.
He don't really care.
So as long as he calls them,even when there's no tricks,
they're just.
They're dumb enough to fall forit.
Rai (08:21):
So and he knows that he is, he is.
melissa (08:24):
He's slowing down a lot .
He he don't break out that manyfights.
He does break up a few, but notthat many, and I don't know.
You kind of see him hanging byhimself quite a bit.
He's not sick.
I've had him to trust me.
I've had him to the bedprobably 10 times and he's
perfectly healthy.
He's just.
Rai (08:42):
Now what?
He just knows that thoseheifers are going to take their
errands out.
They're going to start fightingreal mean and he doesn't want
the streets.
I'm telling you.
melissa (08:50):
I don't mean for that.
I wasn't made for it, okay.
Well, in all seriousness, we dokind of want to discuss what's
recently been going on in yourbox, so I'll let you kind of
take over that and you can maybestart from the beginning of how
(09:10):
it started.
Rai (09:12):
I was really, really excited because I've been
watching for the past coupleyears.
Everybody gets their chicks andthey're so cute and they're so
fuzzy and I loved having chicks,like I loved when my girls were
babies.
It was such a big deal for me.
It was like what was getting methrough COVID.
It kept me occupied and we hadthat really nice little bond.
(09:33):
Well, I ended up getting fivenew chicks and they grew up and
they were about like the firstlike incident we had with one of
them getting sick.
They were probably about like10 weeks old and Churro started
showing some weird signs ofthings.
She was very lethargic and justvery sickly and I ended up
(09:56):
having to feed her because shewasn't eating.
And thank God for Erica fromsecond hand, because she was
calling me and telling me allthe things to like pump through
her and so we were doing andMerrick's wasn't even on our
radar at all.
melissa (10:10):
Why wasn't it just to stop for a second?
Rai (10:14):
The reason why is because so Merrick's presents is a lot
of different things and thereare different types of Marek's.
The type we have in our flockis the type where they grow
tumors, so there's no physicalsymptoms on the outside.
It's not like ocular, where,like you're going to see, like
their eyes go gray and lookcataract at a young age, and
(10:36):
it's not like the neurological,where, like you see them just
kind of shaking and like allover the place Like tumors, so
like it wasn't on our radar atall.
And then we had just taken thegirls outside, like they were
just old enough to go outside.
They were probably well, I keptthem inside for a while because
we had smoke and wildfires andlike explosions and all sorts of
(10:58):
stuff here this past year, butthey were probably about three
or four months old when we tookthem outside for the first time
and when I just happened to lookat Bon Bon one day, my
Barnabelder, because I reallywanted Barnabelder, they're so
sweet she was real lethargic,she wasn't moving very fast and
(11:22):
the other girls were picking onher, which was weird because
they were at an age where, likepecking order well, it's a thing
.
It's not like an extreme thing,like how the older girls it's
always pecking order.
They were still snuggling witheach other, they were still
being kind to each other and shewent down quick and,
unfortunately, the way that thetype of Merrick's we have
(11:44):
presents it can look likebotulism, it can look like some
sort of vitamins efficiencyRhinox.
It was very strange how shewent down and she wasn't walking
.
And we tried everything.
We were pumping her full ofvitamins.
We were pumping her.
I was getting ready to treat herfor coxidiosis before she died
(12:08):
and then she died unfortunately.
But she wasn't walking.
She wasn't able to stand.
She had green poop, which is asymptom, and it's not just the
starvation poops, it happened tobe a symptom of it.
So she passed and I ended upsending her off for an acropsy.
Now I'm very lucky In the stateof Maryland we have two labs.
(12:30):
There's one that's on theeastern shore which is about
four hours from me, and thenthere's one that's half a mile
from my house.
So I took her there for theacropsy and they said that they
didn't see anything at first andI ended up paying a little bit
more for the acropsy.
And, by the way, if you get anacropsy done on your chicken and
(12:51):
if it's like my state lab, theywill send you pictures.
So that was a little jarringfor me.
Seeing my chicken opened up,seeing her brainstem, seeing her
lungs, it was very fascinating.
But it's very hard when you'relike this little baby peep that
you had day one is on there.
So just for those people whoare faint of heart, just know
(13:14):
that they'll send pictures.
And they said that they didn'tsee anything at first and I was
like something's not rightbecause it was presenting as
Marix.
Like once I did more researchthey said she had some worms and
they said that she hadcoxidiosis.
But I was like something stillisn't right because coxidiosis
should not have taken her downlike that and neither should
have parasites because theyweren't showing up in her poop.
melissa (13:37):
They weren't like, and she wasn't really that old, she
was still young.
Rai (13:41):
She was about 18 weeks so she was getting ready to lay.
She was at that point of almostlaying so they went through and
they did a further round oftests it was around $50 to get
it done and they found a smalltumor in her lungs and they said
, well, we're not really sure itcould be Marix, but we're not
(14:02):
really sure.
And then three weeks laterbutters went down.
Butters was my little Easteregg, very, very sweet.
They were always picking on herand usually if they're being
picked on, not because they'reat the bottom of the pecking
order, but they're constantlypicking on them.
Check to make sure your chickenisn't sick.
(14:22):
Well, butters fought for maybelike two weeks with this going
on and I knew that there was apossibility of it being Marix.
So we did everything we couldto lower her stress level.
We went through and we weretreating her for coxidiosis and
I got a different medication forit.
It's totorozoral and it's a oneand done versus cork, so it's a
(14:48):
little bit more effective.
It also helps with worms, so Itreated her with that.
A couple of times I was tubefeeding her.
I was giving her all sorts ofnutrients rooster booster,
poultry cell, oregano,everything I was throwing at her
.
She again, presented with theclassic leg pose, could not
stand and she fought for a longtime and it was just sad to
(15:13):
watch and, like every time thatthis was going on, I would turn
to my husband and go I don'tknow, maybe I just need to make
the appointment and have her putdown.
He's like I think she's goingto fight there, because then,
like the minute, I said that shewould like try to stand up when
she would eat, and so she waseating, she was drinking but she
had the pose of marics and thenfinally she just passed.
So I took her in, went throughthe entire necropsy process
(15:38):
again and this time they saidthat she was riddled with tumors
and they took a look at some ofthe nerves and they said that
they were enlarged.
That's another classic sign.
She was way more sick than BonBon was.
So, yeah, I asked people how wecould have gotten it, because
(16:01):
we're pretty tight with we'renot perfect, nobody's perfect
but we're pretty tight with ourbiosecurity and I was really
unsure how it happened.
Now, my girls hadn't reallybeen outside, so that's where,
like, I'm at and I have sometheories, but it could have been
.
I work at country schools, theyhave chickens.
(16:23):
I could have dragged it in.
Maybe I didn't clean off myboots well enough, maybe I wore
a shirt that I wore to work, ormaybe it was a shirt that I had
took to the fair, or a poultrybag that I didn't clean off.
I don't know.
It could also be little ittybitty birds For people who don't
know.
We had a huge explosion hereback in March and when that
(16:46):
happened, we lost all of oursquirrels.
Our hawks have not come back.
Yeah, so we're like inundatedwith these little bitty
songbirds and, of course, yeah,with the songbirds coming back,
they bring all sorts of lovely,fun things, and so they could
have brought Mariks in.
(17:08):
I have a neighbor, frederickChickens, on Instagram.
She's just a couple of housesaway from me.
We're discussing about itbecause we were.
She was like, well, what'sinvolved with the Mariks?
Like how did it happen?
I'm like I don't know.
There's all sorts of ways thatit could have gotten into my
flock.
I do know that I only have twobirds that are vaccinated for
(17:30):
Mariks, and that is PrincessLeia and Blue from my original
production hens.
The rest of them aren'tvaccinated, and for people who
are going to go and pick upchicks this year.
Unless you're buying themdirectly from the hatchery,
they're not going to vaccinatethem.
So I've been working withSecond Hand to find ways that I
(17:53):
can help my girls, because ifthey hadn't gotten sick I
wouldn't have known to be honestwith you, because it's a type
of marix that doesn't presentphysically and it looks like
everything else.
melissa (18:09):
Yeah, especially kids.
I mean, you have a list ofthings that you could choose
from.
That could potentially be marix.
Rai (18:20):
Yeah, and I was wondering if maybe my feed wasn't very
good kind of deal.
I was wondering if maybe theyate something bad.
Maybe I just gave them sometreats that were a little too
old and we went through all ofthat process too, and it was
definitely not botulism.
I wanted to make sure it wasn'tleucosis, which is another
(18:41):
disease that presents directly.
melissa (18:44):
It's not like life marriage.
Yes.
Rai (18:46):
And it's different, like just on a very small cellular
level, that you and I aren'tgoing to be able to tell.
I mean, if I was to open up achicken today, I'd be like, oh,
I don't even know.
So I think that people justneed to be aware it's probably
in your flock.
It's a disease of opportunity.
It will rear its ugly head intimes of stress.
(19:07):
So and we're finally past thetime frame they say between like
eight weeks and 30 weeks,that's most likely when your
birds will be affected by it.
So, like I have one girl rightnow, tato, she hasn't laid and
we're thinking that maybe thestress of getting ready to lay
(19:30):
might have triggered some ofthis in bonbon and butters, but
we're not sure.
melissa (19:36):
Did you get three together?
Rai (19:39):
I got five, yeah.
So I got a bird rock, twobarnabilders, two Easter eggers,
and then Marissa sent mePersephone I'm smell honey and
she's the beautiful thing.
And I was talking with Marissaabout that and she told me that
AM Samanis are more likely to besusceptible to it.
So we're silkies.
(19:59):
So, people, you got to watchout for them.
Polish your fancy chickens.
melissa (20:05):
Any of the fancy chickens.
Rai (20:07):
You know, and I'm sitting here thinking gosh, you know my
girls, as street smart as theyare, like I don't want anything
to happen to them.
I worry about Artemis becauseshe's a fancy chicken but but
she's older and so I know thatthe risk is still there.
But you know, I don't thinkit's as prevalent as, like the
(20:28):
little guys coming in.
If I want to get more chickens,they have to be vaccinated.
I did talk to my vet and it's amixed science out there about
vaccinating older birds, but theway I think of it is it's like
a flu shot.
If you get a flu shot, it's notgoing to stop you from getting
(20:48):
the flu yeah, it's.
It lessens the symptoms.
So the thing that my vet and Idiscussed was you know what?
It's not going to hurt anything.
So we're going to try andvaccinate my girls and so I do
have, like the vaccine here atthe house.
We're going to make a wholevideo on it and show people how
to give a vaccine, because Ithink that's important for
(21:08):
people to know how to do.
It's stressful.
It is stressful, but we'regoing to do it.
It's worth it because it's notgoing to hurt anything.
That was like what I took awayfrom all the studies that I was
reading.
I read one from Penn State andthey were like this could help,
but it's not going to hurtanything.
It's not like you're going togive your chicken marics.
It's not like you're going tocause them to all die.
(21:29):
We do have a closed block, so Iwill not be getting chicks
anytime soon or birds anytimesoon.
melissa (21:38):
Yeah, these are some of the questions I have for you,
so you're like actually justanswering them.
Yeah, no, that's great, becausethat's things that you know we
want people like how did itpresent itself?
How do you lower the risk of?
You know, like we said, it'sprobably in your block.
I don't have a single chickenat my or ever that's ever been
(22:00):
vaccinated, like ever in thelast 15 years.
We do a lot of I don't buy livebirds and I buy a bunch of eggs
.
We hatch here, so there, yeah,and so the risk is still there.
Is what I'm trying to say, butit doesn't always.
You know, obviously we don'twant anyone to freak out, but we
also want them to be a wicker.
Rai (22:22):
Yes, and it's, and it does come from dander.
So you can test with, like aPCR test, like if you take one
of the feathers it'll have thedander on it and you can have a
lab do a PCR test on it to tellyou whether or not they're
shedding the virus actively.
melissa (22:40):
Yeah, you can do that now.
Yeah, like when they're alive.
Rai (22:43):
Yeah, so your bird doesn't have to be dead for you to be
able to test for marics.
So that's like the good newsbecause, like I always thought,
oh wow, if they have marics, doI have to call them first and
then send them off for anacropsy?
Or, like you know, what can Ido to make sure that I know
what's going on?
I know what's going on here.
If you're getting hatching eggs, it's not transmissible from
(23:04):
mama to egg.
So if you think you have maricsin your flock, you're going to
have to use an incubator andthen that's me.
melissa (23:13):
Yeah, we had another.
We marry.
I know you know marry, but yeslost nearly all of her entire
flock to Marics, and then that's.
We've always felt that theywould be a.
It's scary.
I can imagine is what I'mtrying to say, but I couldn't
imagine what you're having inface.
(23:34):
But you're doing it in a waythat is always vulnerable and
you're you're looking to helpother people.
Rai (23:42):
And what's so sad about Mary's case is she has the
neurological one and you see it,and when she has shown and I
had some heart breaking when sheshows the symptoms of those and
she's she's doing it to teachpeople and it's just you can
hear the pain in her voice andshe is just such an angel person
(24:04):
.
You know she's just wonderfuland so like to see her just so
upset and sad, like what I'mgoing through is totally
different because it's internal,but you can see what's going on
with her flock and it justbreaks my heart for her.
melissa (24:18):
There was several of the last ones, I think that me
and her message, I mean like foran hour until it.
You know, her baby, thatfinally it's because you just
help us.
There's absolutely nothinganyway.
Rai (24:34):
You really can't stop it.
It's going to do what it'sgoing to do, but it is a herpes
virus.
It's a lot like chicken pox.
We all have.
Those of us who went to thechicken pox parties, you know.
I mean, like the young peopleand millennials probably know
about the chicken party.
melissa (24:53):
Because my, my older millennials, they actually had
the vaccine.
So when it first first firstcame out, my kid my oldest kid,
was one of the in the trials forchicken pox shot the vaccine
and she got chicken pox.
Rai (25:07):
She's lucky.
But I mean, like even when wewere going up and we were going
to those chicken pox parties, Iknew people who had gotten
chicken pox more than ones.
The time around wasn't as bad.
melissa (25:17):
And then my sister got it, my baby sister that passed
away.
She was in her 30s and she gotit twice in the same year.
I'm not talking shingles, Imean, right now, chicken pox.
Rai (25:28):
Yeah, I mean my husband, you haven't had chicken pox,
have you?
Yeah, and you know, wheneverthey're like, oh there's chicken
pox at school, I'm like, so Ihave to watch out for it.
But you know, again, thevaccines are going to help with
that, but it's going to be avirus that's always in their
body, because it's a herpesvirus.
It's just, it's always there.
(25:49):
One way I know that something'sup.
It's also called the wastingdisease.
So if you start to notice thatyour birds are starting to get
thinner, start putting on theB12s, start giving them all the
vitamins, start giving them moreoregano.
I'm not normally a person who'slike the healing power of Italy
(26:09):
, but like the oregano has beenhelpful, but just help boost
them.
melissa (26:13):
It does help when you're adding in other, you know
.
And nothing against oregano,but on its own obviously we're
not.
No, I'm not saying it's a cure,it's helpful.
Rai (26:26):
I mean like listen, we're not going to go out there and
dump our spice cabinet out therefor them.
But you know, adding theadditives to the water, do you
think they can kind of get theircalories up?
I know people are justabsolutely dead sent against
heat.
This year I've had a heaterrunning in my coop because I
don't want them burning thecalories and getting stressed
(26:47):
with the different temperatures.
melissa (26:50):
Your situation is different, right?
So that's what we advocate for,that we're not telling you
across the board.
You shouldn't use heat at all.
Yeah, I know, Use it wisely.
Use it wisely and research whattype of heat.
And yeah, obviously they needto stay warm.
Rai (27:06):
Well, I worry about their calorie deficit more than
anything else and if they don'tworry about keeping warm, their
body can focus on fighting otherthings.
And I've also been doing thatbecause Leia with her cancer,
it's been helping her.
Yeah, my whole floxomess we'rejust like a grab bag of disease
over here and you know it's beena lot of time.
(27:27):
Oh, it's been a horriblelearning opportunity.
But if I can help other peoplethen it's worth it.
But with my heater the onlything I do is maybe put it so
that it's like 10 degrees warmer.
So it's not a huge shift, butit's just enough so they can go
and cuddle up against it.
They can get warm and go dowhat they need to do.
melissa (27:48):
I have a chick a chick cozy heater in my van and pin.
Oh, those are the best, oh, letme because they're just, they
don't have a lot of meat ontheir bones.
Anyways, they're just a smallbreed, so when you pick them up,
most of what they are is justbetter.
They're so cute, they lookfluffy and they're not
underweight.
They're just, they don't have alot of meat on them.
(28:08):
So I do have a cozy heater, oneof the radiant heaters, just in
there in their coop.
Rai (28:16):
Yeah, but the good rule of thumb is is when you pick them
up, you can feel their keel boneand If you can also feel like a
little bit of, like you know,breast around the keel bone,
they're okay.
But like, if you like, eventhink for one, second them,
maybe they're too thin.
They're probably too thin.
I've been very aware of theprotein amounts that I've been
(28:39):
giving them, so I tried to givethem like extra veg and I've
been giving them more corn rightnow, so like I haven't been
like shoving a ton of grubs atthem because I don't want them
to have kidney issues.
melissa (28:51):
So it's fine balance of two routine not enough protein,
not enough carbohydrates.
Especially when you have achicken in your situation and
definitely when you go intowinter, you should, I think, of
the carbohydrates before youhave any kind of fat or protein.
Rai (29:08):
Yeah, and I mean like sometimes, like I might like
give them something with alittle bit more fat in there,
but I try not to because again,I want them to have balance.
I don't want them to have cropissues like it's just such a
fine line with doing all of thisand then like go back to the
feed conspiracy thing.
Seriously, just start with yourbase feet to start with your
(29:30):
base feed and go from there,because that's like your
baseline for everything.
Like you could sit there andyou could have all these tons of
conspiracies out the window.
I don't believe any of it.
I think it's all horse, youknow what.
But um, it is.
It's absolutely.
It's just absolutely.
melissa (29:48):
So I spent all last year fighting that I'm not going
into 2028 for this year with it.
No, I'm not.
Rai (29:55):
I'm not fighting it.
You want to be stupid?
Awesome.
If you want to believe somerando on the internet without
doing any research, awesome.
But like always do your ownresearch, even like I feel
pretty educated in things andI've talked to professionals,
but like don't just go.
Hey, oh well, ray said this.
No, go and research it, becausewhat's good for my flock isn't
good for your flock Absolutely.
Because you have roosters.
(30:16):
I don't have roosters yeah,that's a whole different bug and
I don't have hens that arehatching babies.
I don't have babies.
I got fully grown hens and someof them are geriatric and some
of them are just teenagers.
But you know, what's good formy flock isn't necessarily good
for everybody else's.
melissa (30:32):
So I just Ready a finally love right.
This is one of the reasons whywe love right.
Rai (30:37):
There is a mini Huge list of why we love right, but I hope
people right now are like yeah,I agree with that, like that's
open, I'm hoping there in thecars going yeah, yeah, you know.
melissa (30:48):
That's right, that's absolutely right.
Your block is your block andthat's what we definitely, ray
and I, that's what we cut.
We are definitely on the samepage when you know we don't all
have to do the exact same.
Rai (31:02):
And and stay out of the Facebook groups.
If you tell somebody you have amerits positive flock, they're
gonna be like oh kill your birds, Just come on.
melissa (31:10):
They like hold the whole thing and start over.
Rai (31:13):
I'm like for some people, if that might work.
melissa (31:16):
You know if I if they're not attached to.
Maybe their only goal isproduction as an eggs and you
know, possibly you know in thattype of way, but the way that
companion chickens is now athing and it's a huge thing,
there's a large community ofpeople who just have chickens.
(31:39):
You know they of course theylike the ace and that's a right,
that's it.
But they're pets, they'reactually just pets.
And then the marketing world ifthey would catch onto that.
You know there's huge UntappedAvenue of money because chicken
moments and chicken daddy's loveto drop money on their face is
(32:00):
anything but the chicken on it,we're buying it.
Rai (32:07):
If I could find stuff with more hens on it and not just the
beautiful roosters, I'm Bitingit like people don't understand.
I mean, my whole family evensaid they were like you're so
much easier to shop for sinceyou got Chickens.
We just find you something witha chicken on it.
I just want a kid.
melissa (32:23):
Yeah, oh yeah, absolutely 100%.
Rai (32:27):
But you don't have to fill your whole flock.
You don't have to.
I mean obviously, like now thatI know what's going on with my
girls, I can make a moreinformed decision.
If I see somebody suffering,I'm gonna obviously be like, no,
what, this is what it is, and Ican maybe ease their suffering
a lot quicker, because therethere really is no recovery from
(32:47):
it.
People who are thinking, oh,you can nurse them back to
health the ocular one, I thinkI'm not gonna give a definitive
answer.
melissa (32:55):
I'm not a veterinarian, but there are situations that
possibly they could recover andcontinue on yeah, but I do know
that, like gail dammer has said,it's an 80% Mortality rate.
Rai (33:07):
I will go by her, like her stuff is like the Bible for me,
so, and that's what people needto realize.
But if you know like, oh, it'sMerrick's, okay, well, if I
start seeing the chicken showingSymptoms of it, I'm gonna be
calling my bet and we're gonnabe having a conversation a lot
quicker than me thinking, ohwell, maybe it's just this, you
know.
melissa (33:26):
Yeah, and then I have to suffer for longer than they
really should and and they willfight.
Rai (33:33):
And again, keep in mind, chickens are prey animals.
They will not show theirsymptoms until they can't hide
them anymore.
So it's usually too late by thetime you see the symptoms.
And I think that's an importantpart of being with your birds
you know something's wrong ifyou're out there with them a lot
and you're like, oh well, thisis, this is funny, they're
acting just a little off,they're real subtle with,
(33:55):
sometimes with the way theybehave, but they're not feeling
good.
But if you're out there and youknow your birds, you'll be like
, huh, that little spidey sensegoes off and you get that gut
feeling.
You're like no one.
Maybe I ought to do this.
Like I know I've got somepeople sneezing right now Out in
my coop and so, like thismorning I went out there and I
gave them a bunch of like extravitamins.
I fermented some feed for them,just preventative stuff,
(34:18):
because like that little gutfeelings going off like if you
don't take care of this now,it's gonna snow, it's not worse.
melissa (34:24):
Yep, absolutely.
That's why we always say thendo your little chicken checkups
and if you spend enough timewith them, you will know.
And it is it.
Because I'm like, robert,there's some going on with this
one here, just for instance, andhe's like no, there's not,
there's nothing wrong.
I'm like, yeah, they're likeshe walked.
She walked weird for 1.2seconds up.
(34:45):
Something is happening with her, and it usually always is
something.
Rai (34:51):
Hell check is being nice.
You need to watch out.
melissa (34:53):
She is.
She's getting picked on rightnow, which is yeah, I Checked
her over, I didn't see anything,but she's at least six it.
I have to go back and look, butat least six might be time for
her to go to the retirementcommunity.
Yeah, she may be going over tothe single ladies club because
we made a single ladies club andit's a woman that right.
(35:15):
Yeah, Wilma's and willow wouldnot participate any longer in
with mr Jamos.
She is in the single ladiesgroup.
Rai (35:23):
She's believer it.
melissa (35:26):
She is, her hair is.
Rai (35:29):
You look so pretty glitter.
I love it.
melissa (35:32):
She's all they didn't know.
Yeah, she just had whitefeathers coming, which is crazy.
That's just part of thegenetics.
Rai (35:40):
But she looks so pretty though she always looks good.
Yeah, that's how we've beenfeeling about Leia.
melissa (35:47):
That's how is she doing though?
Rai (35:50):
Um, every time we drain her , we take her in to get drained.
The fluid has been kind of likebeer colored is the best way to
describe it, and that is asymptom of like organ failure.
So she's an active organfailure, um, but otherwise, like
she's molten, looks beautifuland like she's beat a crap out
of her flock.
(36:10):
Persephone her her name wasoriginally Princess Leia and
their best friends and it is youto watch them together Until
Persephone takes them over food,and then it's not good.
melissa (36:24):
They are, I don't know, my potions, since it since,
well, since winter kind ofstarted.
They just, they just been namedeach other.
I mean really mean the littleones beat up the big ones.
Rai (36:37):
And it's short girls and syndrome.
We're closer to hell, you know.
melissa (36:43):
Well, they're only five foot one.
I probably can't play till alittle bit.
Rai (36:47):
Yeah, I understand.
I'm like barely five, three.
melissa (36:49):
So when you mentioned about where you got the chicks
from and I know a lot of peoplecoming march they're gonna be
getting chicks.
There are a lot of places thatdon't vaccinate, or maybe people
are not aware that they don'tvaccinate, like if your goal is
to get vaccinated chicks Goingto your local feed store.
I don't.
(37:10):
I know here our local feedstores do not vaccinate.
Rai (37:14):
I don't.
As a general practice, it seemsto be that they don't Like the
even some of the local breedersyou have to ask.
melissa (37:22):
You know you want vaccinated.
I know you're not going tomention the name and that's fine
.
You don't have to mention whereyou got them, but Did you think
that they were vaccinated?
Did you even think about um?
Should I vaccinate them?
I just kind of that way can.
Maybe people are thinking youknow how to explain to them that
(37:43):
they just because you'regetting it from a breeder online
or ordering chicks, doesn'tmean they're automatically
vaccinating them.
Rai (37:52):
So if you go in and you order chicks, some places will
allow you to say like, hey,listen, I want, I want them
vaccinated, and they'll tack ona fee.
Um, if you buy directly fromthe hatchery, you can definitely
make this happen.
I Actually, the place I gotmine this is like the cool thing
about them that I reallyappreciated they gave me a
little sheet of paper and onthat sheet of paper, told me the
(38:14):
batch number of the chicks,told me when they were hatched
it's just a hatchery that theycame from and I contact, just
full disclosure.
I searched the hatchery withthe word marix and it came up
and they told me when I emailedthem that they couldn't tell me.
I was like, but I have thebatch number, I have the
(38:36):
receipts, like, this is whereyou, I got them from, and they
refused to talk to me at all.
But some of those backyardchicken groups, less marics.
So, um, I will be doing betterresearch next time and I will
not purchase from that hatchery.
Now, I'm not going to put themon blast because maybe they f-ed
up, you know, but, um, ifyou're going through somebody
(38:56):
who is MPIP, they won't havemarics in their flock.
They test for all of that.
Um, there's a breeder up bywhere I work and I just looked
at their website and they onlysell vaccinated chicks for
marics.
They don't vaccinate againstcoccidiosis because your birds
are going to get that eventually, but exposed Like here.
melissa (39:16):
we don't vaccinate for coccidiosis, but they they get
exposed to their mom.
Rai (39:22):
Yeah, I mean they're going to eventually be, they're going
to have it in their systemeventually, and it only gets bad
when the load becomes too muchfor them to deal with.
melissa (39:31):
So um, what do you mean to like try and make you feel
like.
I don't want you to think thatI meant like you did it.
You didn't do enough research.
Oh no, I don't mean that.
You know that.
I would never mean that.
No, I mean like if someone's inyour position and they're new,
you know just getting new chicks, and that is a huge concern,
(39:51):
cause when you hear marics andthe chicken community, it's like
yeah, yeah, freak out.
Rai (39:57):
So, like a Bola, like people, like yeah, I think the
thing is is that if you're goingto be a new chicken keeper and
you're going to do this, ask forthe batch number, ask for the
hatchery, like you're going downto one of these, you know giant
, you know feed stores and and Iwill tell you my favorite feed
store, I did not purchase chicksfrom them.
(40:17):
So, um, you know, ask for thosedetails, ask for the batch
number, because they they, ifthey're going to be shipping
chicks, the hatchery itself issupplying to these big chain
stores.
If they're going to be shippingthese chicks, they have to have
a paper trail.
So you should be entitled tothat knowledge as well.
Because what if you get a chickthat's like really, really sick
(40:40):
or it's that really badgenetics and you want to know
about it?
Or you know what if God forbidit?
Like they have MichaelPlasmosis, which they shouldn't.
But you know what happened.
What happened?
I would be filed a paper trail.
So that's something for peopleto know.
But just know that if you'rebuying from one of these big
feed stores, they do notvaccinate their chicks.
You're going to have to do ityourself, which on a little tiny
(41:04):
chick, I don't know if I coulddo, but, um, like it's hard
enough for the big girls givingthem any type of like shot, but,
like with little guys, they'reso small.
But there is a way to do it andI'm going to find out how to do
it and then teach peoplebecause I think that's important
.
But just follow the paper trail, ask for those things.
Don't feel embarrassed to askfor that hatcheries and PIP
(41:25):
number, because if something'sgoing wrong and like they missed
it because I think testing, youwould have to ask Marissa,
because I don't know much aboutthe whole process because I
can't go through it, but I knowthat they only test once or
twice a year and they canabsolutely slip through the
cracks.
They may not test the bird thathas that.
melissa (41:43):
There is in our state.
If you have a certain number inyour thought, then you have to
test all of your, you know, asmaller, a smaller flock.
I believe that you can do.
We looked into this a whileback and we just we never I got
too many other things on them,but depending on your state, but
that's neither here nor there.
(42:04):
But yeah, I mean, if the IP isusually always the best way to
go, it doesn't mean that you'renot going to get any illnesses,
because there's illnesses thatthey just don't test for.
They only test for so many.
That's a good place to start,though, if you're going to order
, if I was going to, if I'mgoing to order chicks again.
Rai (42:21):
It would either be from the local place, but they don't.
They do street runs and I can'thave roosters.
And as much as I would love aleg bar army, I don't all leg
bars.
The hairspray would just be toomuch for everybody.
You know I probably order fromlike McMurray.
I don't know if you deal withthem, but I like them a lot.
They've been very nice to me.
melissa (42:42):
I know that I've ordered from McMurray, we get
our hatching eggs from a localbreeder here.
You know we never had an issuewith eating type viruses.
The only thing we'd have that Iwould say the proxy that we
have, the proxy here is forfending the birth syndrome, and
that's obviously just genetic.
It's not something that's to be.
(43:03):
Yeah.
Rai (43:05):
They keep us on our toes, don't they?
Yeah?
melissa (43:08):
It's always something like it's so much Nice, they all
back in the old day, you knowyou didn't have all these
diseases for chicken.
You did.
And I'm like, yeah, you did,you just didn't know what, noted
, they just fell dead and thenyou were like dinner, it's
dinner and I'm basically it'sall like like I see my husband
because raw they they raisechickens here when he was a
(43:29):
little kid and I mean he's oldand syrup, so, um, they've had
chickens here forever and if oneof them happened to die, and my
mom grew up on a farm and shetold me right after her question
.
Rai (43:43):
She said like I don't know, she's like if they were sick,
we would just put them down andwe'd have them on the dinner
table, like, and I'm like, well,there's nothing wrong with that
.
You're feeding your familyAwesome.
melissa (43:53):
Awesome, yes, absolutely Like I'll put that
out there.
Rai (43:57):
You know, it's not what I would personally choose to do.
Um, they also didn't have anytype of close relationship with
their birds.
It was like oh, they're,they're out there.
We have chickens.
Oh, you know, they were a foodsource and that's what they were
meant to be, and there'snothing wrong with that.
For anybody who might think ohno, there's nothing wrong with
(44:17):
that, you feed your family, youdo it's best for you.
Again, what you do in your coopis what you do in your coop.
It's not my cup.
melissa (44:23):
What are you, what are your plans?
Do you, are you at your maxwhere you live, of how many
birds you can have?
Yes, oh, for your max, I havesix of her.
Rai (44:37):
We actually um the bearded clown.
I we purchased our, his dad's,my father-in-law's house and
it's out in the country andthere's about an acre and it's
farm country and we can dowhatever we want.
We can have roosters out there.
So in like 10 years or so we'llprobably move out there, once
we're ready to retire, and justkeep doing what we're doing.
(45:00):
But if I'm going to addanything to my flock, I think
I'm just going to let my flockdiminish until it's not socially
healthy for them anymore.
Like you really shouldn't haveone or two together.
Like that's cause.
Once one dies and it's all byitself it's not good.
They're social preachers.
But um, well, if we're going toadd anybody, it's going to
(45:24):
vaccinate it birds and I knowthere's this whole who fly you
shouldn't mix it.
Vaccinate with unvaccinated, itdoesn't matter.
At the end of the day, once,like they're either going to get
it or they're not.
You know, yeah.
melissa (45:35):
Yeah, there's a whole big discussion on it, and I mean
a huge discussion, um,depending on where you look, you
know, like in groups and onlineand stuff.
I kind of feel the same way asyou do.
Rai (45:49):
You know it's at the end of the day.
You know what I mean.
I haven't had my flu shot, butsome so has like, oh, we're not
going to mingle because Ihaven't had my.
You know it just causes toomuch, you know we see stress of
the bird, headaches of the bird.
melissa (46:04):
Um, you know, all of those things play factor into.
Is it going to present itself?
You know, are they curing it?
And they're not going to.
They.
They go their whole life andyou would never know it.
Like not necessarily.
I mean like internal symptoms,I mean like they don't present
any.
You know they just died.
Rai (46:24):
Natural causes and I mean, like what they could pass away
from isn't necessarily like the,the, the crops that I have,
isn't?
They died of marics.
It was died of something else,with marics as a complication,
like it wasn't the main cause.
Um, you know, we're not goingto have silks.
I, they're adorable.
I I love watching other peoplehave them.
(46:45):
There is too much work involvedwith them and Polish adorable
don't want them.
So you know, we're going toprobably pick breeds that are a
little bit more hearty when itcomes to that, if we're going to
decide to add anything.
And you know I'm I'm obsessedwith the Samanis now.
So thanks, marissa, I'mobsessed, she's so cute.
(47:06):
But they would have to bevaccinated before they show up
at my door, kind of deal.
But I think it's all going tobe fine.
It's just I know what to lookfor.
Now is the big thing, and youknow I'm hoping that they all go
through their lives and neverpresent anything and just live
nice, happy lives.
There's no reason for them tobe stressed.
It's not like they have jobs,it's not like they're paying
(47:27):
bills.
You know they don't have toworry or food is coming from.
melissa (47:31):
I know they just wake up and stare at you.
Rai (47:35):
They just have to scream and say I want more food and
it's it's brought to them, so Idon't understand the stress.
melissa (47:44):
That's I mean for our listeners.
Obviously you could go over afew things of what stress would
mean to a bird.
You know small spaces.
Yada, yada, yada.
Rai (47:53):
Yeah, Space is a huge issue with birds.
They like their own personalspace.
They enjoy invading otherpeople's personal space If they
want that space.
The pecking order can besomething stressful.
I don't have roosters.
I know that roosters can causestress.
Not having a rooster can causestress.
I know my girls get freaked outwhen they see an airplane.
melissa (48:14):
How do new members, you know, changing their
environment, all those things?
Rai (48:18):
I mean even changing the water or changing the feeder.
They're not like change, theyare creatures of habit and they
want it a certain way.
And you know, I have this cutelittle puppy that I want to
introduce and I can't do it yetbecause she's too wild for them.
So I don't want to stress themout with the puppy coming at
(48:39):
them and a perceived threat,because that's the last thing
they need.
melissa (48:43):
I mean, you just answered one question Right
after another that I had.
No.
No, that's good.
That's good that we want.
We want more your voice andless of my voice.
So you know what I mean.
Like we want to hear from you,we want you to educate our
followers.
Does it matter?
You know?
Like I'm not here to educate,I'm here to facilitate you, to
(49:05):
educate I as a teacher, Iunderstand this.
Whether I know something or notis not the point here.
We want you to educate others,so if you have something else
you want to share, then I wantyou to really share it.
Rai (49:19):
I think, like the big thing is we need to have
conversations about Merrick'sand Stop making it be this end,
all be all.
You know there are ways toprevent it from going to other
flocks good biosecurity.
I found this really awesomespray for my clothes.
You know, I can use and I canshow.
I think it's called synergizeor something, and if you dilute
(49:41):
it a little bit, you can justspray it down on your coop
clothes.
I I'm gonna be putting it on myshoes when I go down the street
to go see Frederick chickensbecause I'm helping her with
something.
I'm gonna make sure that I'mtaking the correct precautions,
but it needs to stop being this.
You know what we're just.
It's like avian flu.
We're just gonna burneverything to the ground and
(50:02):
forget about it.
It's not like that.
It is sad.
It is very sad to watch if youhappen.
So I Think it's fun to talkabout having those hard
conversations.
melissa (50:15):
Yeah, I think those conversations are important and,
like I said in the beginning,there's like this blue thing,
you know, people who would haveMerrick's in their block, a lot
of them that they probably notgonna talk to anybody because
they're just it's like in theirstatement or something Is what I
.
I feel like they are.
Rai (50:34):
They are bears that they let this happen you know, that
definitely went through my brainbecause I was like, oh my god,
I sit here and preachbiosecurity all the time and
like I work really hard to makesure that I'm doing the correct
things.
How on earth did this happen?
And then, like you see, likethe people taking their chicken
(50:55):
to the feed for, and you're like, how do they not have something
?
You know, and we, we workreally hard to be very careful,
but no one's perfect and thathas been a huge like Life lesson
for me and like it wasextremely humbling to have that
happen because, like I saidthere, and I get upset, I'm like
, wow, I know all all thesepeople that, like they don't use
(51:16):
hardware cloth, they'reconstantly dealing with
predators breaking into theircoop and run like half their
flock gets wiped out.
And I've got this and I workreally hard to make sure that my
girls live the life and are assafe as possible.
And it just it hurts my heartto know that it's there, but I
can only do so much.
I can't get on like a virallevel and stop things.
melissa (51:40):
Oh yeah, absolutely not , and that's what I'm saying.
We shouldn't expect otherchicken keepers, you know, and
they shouldn't feel embarrassedmy flock could have barracks and
I have no idea.
It's not presented itself, butthat doesn't mean it's not there
or may become there at somepoint.
Rai (51:58):
It doesn't, it's more a collection of us at all.
melissa (52:01):
Completely it goes under the People taking their
chickens attractor supply, whichwe we always tell you do not
take your chicken attractorsupply but they they may never
get married.
Oh, but that's just the way itis.
But you can do things like yousaid.
You know be cautious of whereyou get your chickens.
(52:22):
You know if you're gettingchicks, definitely be cautious
if you're adding adult chickensinto younger chickens that that
can cause an issue.
You know, because they're stillyoung and they're vulnerable to
, you know, sexual, to be sickand illnesses.
Rai (52:39):
Oh, something else with the Merrick's vaccine.
If you have vaccinated chicks,you want to keep everything
separate for a very long periodof time, like I know that it's
like you know, eight or nineweeks.
I would go even further thanthat.
That's just me.
I have like the ability to dothat, but not everybody does.
But you again want to practicelike the biosecurity with your
(53:01):
chicks because they are the mostvulnerable, up until 30
something weeks.
So just keep that in mind, likethey're the most vulnerable and
I know that like we're tryingto introduce them to a whole
different, like whole differenttype of biome, like all
different viruses that are outthere.
Just be aware that it couldtake your chicks down pretty
quick and that's heartbreakingtoo.
(53:22):
Just they're just, it's alittle oh.
melissa (53:26):
Well, we appreciate everything that you've shared
today.
We're always so grateful.
I know it's.
This is raise a break, andwe've tried to set this podcast
up for For a while now, but I'vebeen sick all week this flu so,
but I'm feeling a lot better.
We're grateful for all yourinformation and if our listeners
(53:46):
have it, if you've had an issueof various or you feel like you
Need someone to talk to, youcould always say Ray, a DM, or
you can send me, obviously, theDM.
We don't claim to be any typeof Veterinary professionals, but
there is a general knowledgethat we can share and we can do
(54:08):
in touch with others who havemore, maybe more knowledge of
that, and it's good to have asupport system.
Rai (54:13):
That's like having a support system.
I mean, if nothing else, likeif I can't help you, I'm just
gonna sit there and be like I amso sorry because I Feel your
pain, I empathize with your pain.
So Betty, betty has just saidthat she's my anxious, shits you
.
She's so sweet, she is a sweet.
melissa (54:33):
But we appreciate you and we appreciate all of our
listeners and We'll see you nexttime, rai.
Okay, thanks, have a good onenow.
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