April 15, 2024 • 51 mins
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This week's guest is Erica of Second Hen'd a 501 3c organization that rehomes "spent hens", ex battery laying hens. You can listen to Erica's more detailed episode here https://www.buzzsprout.com/1624426/episodes/12660584
Today we are focusing on an new support group for chicken keepers. Erica started a new support group, "Birds Of A Feather" for those who are needing advice, emotional support, a safe place to discuss the loss of a beloved pet chicken, and friendship. This group is FREE to all those who are in need.
When you lose a feathered friend, where can you turn for solace and understanding? Erica from Second Hen'd joins us to pull back the curtain on Birds of a Feather, a virtual sanctuary for those mourning their chickens, where the clucking of sympathetic hearts creates a tapestry of support and shared love for our avian companions. This episode is a tribute to the unspoken bonds we form with our pets, a space where laughter and tears over clucky antics and the inevitable goodbyes coexist, reflecting on the profound impact these creatures have on our lives.
Caring for chickens is no walk in the park; it's a road paved with ethical quandaries and DIY medical treatments when vets are miles away. We navigate the rough terrain of at-home bird care and the difficult decisions owners face when professional help is out of reach. From the limits of administering antibiotics to the painful choice of euthanasia, this conversation is an eye-opener to the realities and responsibilities that come with loving and caring for chickens as more than just livestock.
This heartfelt exchange also delves into the joys and sorrows of pet ownership, from the quirky behaviors that endear our chickens to us, to the heavy hearts we carry when they fall ill. We share stories of personal loss, like that of Eggie the chicken, whose resilience in the face of illness taught us about the depths of the human-animal bond. This episode isn't just a narrative; it's a journey through the emotional landscape of chicken lovers everywhere, a reminder of the legacies our feathered friends leave behind, and an invitation to a community that understands just how deep those claw prints in our hearts can be.
Sign up for the email list and be notified of meeting times.
https://nextdoor.us3.list-manage.com/subscribe?u=c2f4746866979d46ccff4e676&id=d48482a152
“Where education fuels compassion.”
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mel (00:00):
Hey y'all, I'm Mel and you are listening to Wilma the
Wonder Hen.
Are you a chicken-mouth-lovingmama or daddy?
Together we'll dive into thelatest poultry-keeping
adventures, chat about everydaylife, with a generous mix of
some hilarious stories, bringingyou fascinating interviews with
(00:22):
poultry owners from all over.
You'll find tips and basicadvice from your local
veterinarian, along with newchicken keeping gadgets and
reviews.
I'm going to see what MrJangles and Wilma has to say
about that.
We're going to encourage andhelp you build a stronger,
healthier flock.
Let's go see what Mr Janglesand Wilma is up to.
Let's go let these heifers out.
Hi y'all, welcome back.
(00:47):
I'm Mel and this is Wilma theWonder Hens podcast.
Today's guest is Erica ofSecond Hend, which is a 5013C
organization that takes inex-battery hens and gives them a
new life, new opportunities andmedical care and all that good
stuff.
Life, new opportunities andmedical care, and all that good
(01:07):
stuff.
Erica does have a prior episodethat goes into detail, all
about what she does, how shedoes it and how you can help her
to help more hens.
But today Erica is here todiscuss something that is near
and dear to her heart, which is,I assume, is also part of the
second hymn organization.
It's tied in there somehow, sowe're going to let Erica take it
(01:32):
away.
Hi, erica, I'm great.
Erica (01:36):
How are you?
I'm hanging in there.
I'm hanging in there.
The weather's getting hotter,but you know it is what it is,
so I just deal with it.
If you hear little chirps, thatis a chicken.
She is here with me, she's myemotional support animal.
That's okay, which, I guess,honestly, is kind of a good
intro into what I want to talkabout today.
(01:59):
I'm trying to get word outabout an emotional grief support
group for, like, specificallyfor people who love their
chickens like we do.
They see them as pets.
They are absolutely devastatedwhen they lose them.
They either have a veterinarianthat can only do so much or
(02:23):
they don't have any access tovet care because vets in their
area will not see chickens.
So the idea of Birds of aFeather that's what we've been
calling it is to have a virtualmeetup every so often, maybe
start out once a montheventually, as we grow, maybe
(02:44):
twice a month even more.
What I wanted to do was create avirtual support group where
people can join in.
We build close relationshipswith one another so we know each
other by name, we know eachother's chickens, all that good
stuff and the idea is to, ifsomeone has a sick bird, we can
(03:05):
try and talk through it.
If someone has recently lost abird and they want to talk about
it, we are there to support.
If they just want someone tolisten, we're there to listen.
If they want to vent, we'rethere to listen.
If they want advice there tolisten.
(03:26):
If they want advice, we'rethere to give it.
I want everyone to feel supercomfortable with opening
themselves up in that way.
So the goal is for it to be avery, very safe space, and that
is why I have said we will neverrecord any of the sessions and
that's also why I decidedagainst something like a
Facebook group instead.
(03:46):
That just leaves too many doorsopen for people to come in and
troll and hide behind the screen.
Like I said, if you're going toshow up and you're going to
start some stuff like, you willbe held accountable and we'll
see who you are and we can bootyou.
But yeah, everyone the peoplethat are welcome, I don't care
what your beliefs are, we wanteveryone, whether you're
(04:09):
spiritual, not spiritual, I wantall the people to come.
The big thing is you love yourchickens, you want to give them
the best care and you aredevastated when you lose them.
We want to be here for you andfor cause.
I mean, I've lost birds, andespecially in the beginning,
(04:31):
before I met you guys and hadthis great community built,
before I started secondhand, youknow I was scrambling, trying
to find a vet that would see mybird that I could tell was not
doing well and just it was likenope, sorry, we don't see
livestock.
We don't see livestock.
Like even you won't help mehelp them pass, you know like
(04:52):
compassion.
I like I don't want them to justkeep suffering and I just felt
so alone and it felt hopeless.
And I know we can't we can'talways save them from what
they're dealing with, but we cantry and we can be there for
each other.
And maybe there's somethingthat you know, one of us knows
(05:14):
about, that you haven't triedyet and that'll do the trick.
Right, you know.
But if it doesn't work out, wewant to be here to support you
as well.
Mel (05:23):
So can you tell how does this go down Like, is this a
secret group or is this like an?
They email you?
I mean, what platform are youusing to host this type of event
?
So it will be.
Erica (05:36):
It will be a Google meet , and what's going to happen is
on our link tree, which you canget to on our Instagram page as
well as our Facebook page, itsays join Birds of a Feather.
You go to that link.
It's really quick and easy.
You sign up and that will putyou on the email list, and so
(05:59):
that is how we will let peopleknow about upcoming meetings.
And so now, when we're firstkind of getting feelers out
there because so far on the listwe do have people from here in
the States as well as overseasso once I get, once this podcast
(06:20):
goes out and more peoplepossibly join, I'm going to send
out an initial survey justasking what time zone are you in
?
What works best for youweekends, weekdays, evening,
late afternoon, et cetera and soonce I get a better feel for
that, we're going to scheduleour next meetup.
(06:42):
That will go out on thismailing list.
The mailing list will only goout to people who sign up for it
.
I'm very big about.
Even if you have a friend whorecently lost some birds and you
think, oh, they would love this, this is great, I'm going to
sign them up.
Don't do that Right, like younever.
You never know where someone'sat in their grief journey and
(07:05):
they may not be ready for it.
So I always ask if you havesomeone who you think would be
interested, send them the signuplink and when they are ready,
they will sign up or not, maybethey, maybe they.
It's not for them, they don'tprocess their grief in that way.
They don't want to talk aboutit Totally understand.
So that's my big thing is I wantto make sure everyone who's
(07:27):
there and signs up wants to beso.
That is kind of why I've donethings the way that I have.
I won't necessarily beadvertising the meetups on
Instagram or if I do, I may justsay like, hey, for everyone who
got notification everyone onthe list, you know, check your
(07:49):
emails.
We sent out all the details,but I won't be sending the link.
I won't be putting that out onany social media channels.
That will only go out on theemail list and we will say
please don't, you know, forwardthis email because it's for the
people on the list.
My hope is people will berespectful and understand,
because I mean, I'm sure we'veall been there where we've had a
(08:09):
friend sign us up for somethingthat we maybe were like oh, how
do I get out of this Right?
So I don't want there to be anyof that awkwardness ever, but
I'm hoping to in the as we growand in the future.
What I would absolutely love tohappen Cause I already know
some chicken people that aretherapists or they are connected
(08:33):
and already working in, youknow, mental health areas, so
they can come and they canprovide some, you know, expert
opinion or advice from thataspect.
And then for people who areinto that kind of thing Reiki,
healing, animal communicationyou know, even if that's not
(08:53):
your thing, as long as you canrespect that maybe just
believing in that brings comfortto others.
That's that's the goal, right,like that's.
That's the big thing is we justwant to kind of touch all those
bases and make sure thatthere's something for everyone
and that everybody feelssupported.
And we'd like to introduce tolike times where we can, you
(09:13):
know, talk about good husbandry.
You know ways to address someof the most common chicken
issues that we face.
You know heat stress,coccidiosis issues that we face.
You know, heat stress,coccidiosis.
You know we will share ourknowledge and as well as get
into harder stuff and maybe, ifsome veterinarians catch wind
and they want to join, thatwould be great, because then
(09:35):
they could help us talk throughstuff or maybe help people
locate a veterinarian that wouldbe willing to see their birds.
Mel (09:41):
Yeah, I mean I guess that I get.
The question I would say isliability, like on the medical
parts, which I completelyunderstand, don't get me wrong.
Uh, if you're in a position youdon't have access to a
veterinarian, I mean youliterally have no other choice
but to just try and figure itout.
Now, when I had chickens firststarted, they didn't have all
(10:03):
this.
Well, they may have, but I justdidn't know it existed, like
the community chicken community,and never even thought about
needing a veterinarian for achicken.
There's that thing of a lot ofpeople just see them as
livestock and then there'speople like us that see it, you
(10:23):
know, as a companion animal.
So I'm very blessed to have aveterinarian that it's not even
the same veterinarian that seesmy dogs and cats, my.
I have a separate veterinarianthat is a small vet veterinarian
, but they also have a largearena for horses and cattle and
(10:44):
you.
They have a separate part oftheir building for farm animals
and that's what chickens and mygeese are considered farm
animals.
So we go there.
But, like the advice part, youknow, how would you handle that?
You know, if someone did joinand say you know, my chicken is
very sick.
You know what someone did.
Erica (11:06):
Join and say you know my chicken is very sick.
You know what should I do?
So I always, always, always so,and again I have.
I have also been very blessedto have access to veterinarians.
There's like three really goodones that I work with, that like
one of them she's even adoptedfrom us Right.
(11:27):
So she's very passionate aboutthe cause.
And I will tell you right now Iam very aware of my limits and
what I should and should not say, like I, because I also don't
ever want to have someone comeback and be like oh, that thing
(11:49):
you told me to do, it killed mychicken.
I don't want that on myconscience.
No, so, first and foremost, ifsomeone says they have a very
sick chicken, I always say youshould get it seen by a vet if
you can, and I start there.
And then if they come back withwell, I've tried everything, I
can't find anyone that will seechickens, or I don't have a vet,
(12:11):
or they're too far away, Idon't have money Then we kind of
go from there.
You know well, what have youalready tried?
What are the symptoms?
And I start with very basicstuff.
But, like even me, personally Iam very hesitant to recommend
anything like antibiotics unlessa bird has been specifically
tested for something by aveterinarian, and that's also
(12:34):
something that usually you haveto get from a veterinarian.
So things like that I you won'tever see me out there just
being like, oh, here's thedosing for this and treat them
with that.
I will say it sounds like yourbird possibly needs antibiotics,
but you need to get them seenby a vet so they can be tested,
(12:55):
because different antibiotics,right, cover different things
and you don't want to give themthe wrong thing, because then
that could make things muchworse and you don't want that
either right and I'm not.
Mel (13:05):
I'm definitely not saying not give advice, that's not.
That's not what I was leadingup to.
I mean, we, we answer dms frompeople and you know and usually
when I answer I'll point them to, like merc vetcom, that you
know, says yes this is what youdo or whatever you know.
I always try to back it up withresearch or a science based
(13:27):
article.
But definitely people need aplace where they can go and as
long as you have, like you know,a standard of care like this is
the standard of care, this iswhat you know you should do,
this is what you know you shoulddo.
And then when it gets into someof that deeper stuff that you
really are just guessing at,because unless you get a fecal
(13:48):
done or something like that done, you really are just kind of
guessing.
Even like with x-rays, you knowif their crops not working
right, you know they could havesomething lodged they could have
.
You know there's lots of thingsthat could.
They could have?
Erica (14:01):
Yeah, they could have cancer.
You know, like it could notjust be.
I can't make that call Right.
Mel (14:04):
But I mean, I definitely see the need and I definitely
support it because you know,when you have no veterinarian
and you've searched all that youcan search, let's ask someone
who's had chickens a long time.
Taking that with caution, as inthis, may not work for your
bird.
Right With caution, as in this,may not work for your bird.
Erica (14:25):
Right, and we always say that we're like, first of all,
like we're not veterinarians,and this may or may not work.
You know it's.
And you also have to becomfortable with doing whatever
it is, because sometimes a birdwill be so dehydrated that it's
(14:46):
like the only way to get it theamount of fluid that it needs to
not die right then is to do umsub-q fluids.
But again, not everyone hasaccess to the right size of
needle or the right size ofsyringe or the actual fluids
(15:07):
that need to go, and they alsodon't know how, where, where
would they put the fluid.
You know, in those cases it'slike you need to take it to a
vet because you're not going toget those things quickly.
But we do our best with what wehave Right.
Mel (15:23):
I know we talked about when you have very sick birds.
This is kind of jumping ahead,but it's just popped in my mind.
Oh, you're fine.
When you have a very, very sickbird you don't have access to a
veterinarian and I know peoplesay, well, just take it to a
veterinarian Drive.
Two hours to a veterinarianDrive, three hours to a
veterinarian Okay.
Erica (15:43):
That costs money.
Mel (15:44):
That's exactly right.
Not everyone starts with thesame resources.
That doesn't mean that theydon't love that bird any less or
any more than you do.
You know that's a whole nothersubject about resources.
You know, just because youdon't have the same resources
doesn't mean you even shouldn'thave.
I hear that a lot.
Well, you shouldn't have yourbirds.
Then if you can't take them toa vet or you're not living next
(16:05):
to a vet, come on, come on, comeon.
Okay.
But my question, right, we needcompanions.
So my question, uh, was, or mythought was you know, if it gets
to that end of the life, areyou going to have those hard
conversations of maybe how thatyou could, um, euthanize your
bird?
I mean, I only comes up becausethis is something that's not
(16:29):
really talked a whole lot aboutand I think a lot of people need
.
If you don't have a veterinarian, you need to know how to end
the suffering of one of yourbirds right.
Erica (16:41):
Right Now I will say like because me personally I
know even if my bird was likesuffering, I could not like I
know the ways that people can doit.
I don't know enough specificsto be able to walk someone
through that process Like thebest I could do would be point
(17:03):
someone to the internet becauseI know there is stuff out there
about it or maybe someone elsein the group has had to do it.
I personally wouldn't knowwhere to point someone because
my birds have all either passednaturally or they've been
euthanized by a vet because Ihave I I'm lucky to have that
(17:23):
now growing up.
It's a whole other story whathappened with with the animals.
But again, that was me tryingto distance myself from that and
not take part.
But if, if someone came into thegroup and we all kind of had
that that feeling of I thinkyou've really done everything
you can and this bird is at apoint where it's really
(17:45):
suffering and you need to like,consider other things, I would
have no problem allowing thosediscussions.
I don't, I'm saying right now Iwould not be the best person to
give advice on how to do thatbecause I don't know, but if
there were other people who hadthat knowledge, I wouldn't say,
no, you can't talk about that.
(18:05):
Because, first and foremost,that bird suffering is not what
we want, and the longer thatbird suffers, that also causes
more pain for the owner, and wedon't want that either.
They want their bird to finallybe at peace.
So if there's a way to do that,then we're going to quickly and
(18:26):
end that suffering that someonecan help with.
Mel (18:29):
I am okay with that the only reason I brought that up is
because I did see in a groupdifferent group doesn't have
anything to do with you oranybody on the chicken community
, but in a little um over onfacebook but somebody had an
injured bird and she absolutelyloved it.
She was completely distraughtbut a hawk had got it and it
(18:51):
wasn't not to be graphic oranything, but it was definitely
not.
I mean chickens heal so good, Imean they really do, uh, but but
you can tell this was, this wasthe end and she didn't know
what to do.
She didn't have no veterinarian.
She, she literally didn't knowwhat to do to make it stop
suffering and it washeartbreaking, but it did seem
(19:13):
like a few people did messageher privately to help her
through that.
Erica (19:19):
Now I will say, like the only thing that I'm a bit
hesitant about when it comes topeople and again, I know
everyone doesn't have access toa vet and it's really hard.
But I would say if there was away that someone knew, let's say
(19:40):
more medicinal to help thatprocess along.
I would very much promote thator back that, more than I would.
(20:03):
The other methods, yes, yes,yes, go well and it ended up
causing more pain and sufferingto the bird and the person that
did it was like, oh my God, likefreaking out, and so I would
not want that to potentiallyhappen, especially if this
person has never done it beforeand they don't know what they're
doing.
So I would say like, hey, ifyou know of some medications
(20:27):
that maybe give a little bit toomuch of that can help them go
in their sleep, that's more ofwhat I would highly, highly
recommend over the other methods.
But that's just me not wantingthings to go bad and make the
situation worse and moretraumatic.
Mel (20:43):
I'm in my she shed, which is where I podcast and Nugs.
Her goose pen is right next tomine and and she hears my voice
and she's screeching.
Erica (20:52):
That's Blossom over here .
She's making her sounds.
I was like I don't know if youcan hear her, but she sees some
bug that's on the window rightnow and she's like freaking out.
She's like Mom, why aren't youlike taking care of this?
Oh, there she goes, she's like.
So I can't hear Nugs at all,though.
That's good.
Mel (21:08):
You're fine, that's good.
Nugs is crazy.
It's mating season and shedon't have a mate and I've been
looking for a mate for her.
You know it's hard to find anadult gander.
He doesn't know her, he doesn'tknow me, and if you know
(21:28):
anything about geese, they'revery protective.
So if you don't bond with themearly on, you're pretty much
fair game.
So I'm trying to figure out howI would do that and plus
quarantine him because I don'twant any sick birds yeah my
chickens or my geese, I wouldliterally die.
Erica (21:43):
So this may be a stupid question, but could she
potentially like, even if theydidn't have babies, but if she
just like, really bonded withhim, like one of those, like
wild canadian geese who lost amate, like, could, like, could
that?
Mel (22:03):
happen.
I saw someone talking aboutthis.
They actually have one that hadthat has taken up with their
flock and it you know, becausethey come and go throughout the
year.
He would come and then he wouldhang out with the girls, the
ladies, and they would maketheir little nest and he would
(22:24):
protect their nest and stuff andthen he would go back and then
he's like I right bye, I'll beback next year.
Erica (22:33):
I'll be back in a little bit, yeah that's funny I don't
know.
I because I do see like it'sactually it's sad because I see
it pretty frequently anywhereI've lived.
So you have geese, you have thecanadian geese all over right
and a since like one will gethit by a car, and then there's
just one alone and that was itsmate, and it's like wandering
(22:56):
around alone, like just indistress, and I always wondered
like could you potentially takethat goose?
Mel (23:05):
and introduce it to a flock .
I mean, I guess, if you want togo to federal federal prison,
you know, I mean I don't youknow, so I don't know either but
, but if he, but if he flew in,yes, if he flew in like a sheet,
would he be?
Allowed, you know okay, so that.
Erica (23:24):
So that could be a cute love story.
Mel (23:26):
Maybe you need to maybe, maybe, I don't know.
I even thought about buying her.
Like you can go online and getuh toulouse geese, which is what
she is, and you can order them.
But you have to order at leastthree or four, I think it's four
, I don't remember.
But, um, yeah, and I don'treally want that many geese.
(23:47):
And then what if it's threeganders?
And then I'm stuck.
I can't do that.
You can't have that many, sothen I'd have to build a whole
nother place to house them.
So I'm just really picky, rightthis minute.
Unless, like a gander fallsinto the, it doesn't even have
to be a male.
I mean, it could be a female.
If I was going to get one,though, I would want it could be
(24:09):
a female.
If I was going to get one,though, I would want it to be
able to have little nugs babies.
Right, I mean, you can get afemale, they, they don't care
male or female, they're gonnamate in the pool all day long.
Um, you're just not gonna haveany babies.
But anyway, that conversationwent left, didn't it?
Erica (24:25):
no, you're not.
No, I was.
Just I was.
And when you were talking about, you're like I don't want that
many geese.
I'm just thinking my dad had agoose, a pet goose, and this
goose, well, I guess, yeah, itwould be because the boys are
Ganders and the girls are goose.
So, yeah, so it was a gander.
His name was Pacho and this guylived to be at least he was at
(24:48):
least 25 years old.
This guy lived to be at leasthe was at least 25 years old and
he was very like.
My dad was his only personAnyone else tried to get near my
dad.
He like just oh, and he wasmean, he would attack you.
And he taught his three sons tobe exactly the same.
And so it was these four geeseprotecting my dad all the time,
(25:13):
and it was just so.
They live a long time.
So if you get some that aren'tnice, I know what do you do.
Mel (25:18):
I have Jack and Shelby, which is a bonded pair, which is
the other Chinese geese, andJack hates everybody unless it's
me or Robert, and if you comein the yard he will run you out,
and everybody unless it's me orrobert, and if you come in the
yard he will run you out.
And he chased the fedex man theother day.
He didn't get to him because heknew they were out and you
could just see him turningaround and looking and running
(25:39):
it was awful.
I don't allow that.
I don't think it's funny, butit was funny for a second and
right, I mean you had yourchuckle and then it's like be
good I don't.
I don't just allow them to, youknow, chase people up and down
the road, but to have a wholeflock of them trying to control
them, no, thank you, I don'twant it.
Erica (26:00):
I mean, I got self-control, the chickens are
just way more chill, theythey're not as much trouble
geese are.
Mel (26:08):
you've got to be pretty dedicated, I think, to take care
of them, because they havedifferent nutritional needs and
all kinds of stuff.
But anyway, that's enough ofthat.
Yeah no, you're good.
Erica (26:23):
I like talking about all sorts of things, it's okay.
Okay, that was the big points Ireally wanted to hit.
Were people have to make thatchoice to sign up on their own
right?
Yeah, let's recap, let's get arecap.
Yeah.
Mel (26:37):
Erica here it.
Erica (26:39):
It won't be recorded, so people can share as much or as
little as they want.
You can cry, we we can, youknow, and because I do
understand there are people who,you know, grieve in a way where
they may not want to givedetails, they may never want to
talk about it, you know, butgoing and hearing other people
(27:01):
talk helps them.
So, yeah, so you will have tosign up for the mailing list.
That is where all theinformation will be put out is
through the mailing list, andyou can do that through the link
tree on Instagram and ourFacebook pages.
We will not spam you, so theonly information that will go
out on this list is when I getenough people, I'm going to send
(27:24):
out that initial survey andthen it will be here's meeting
details and here's a reminder.
That's it Again.
If you know someone who youfeel would be interested, send
them the sign up link.
Don't sign them up.
Meetings will never be recorded.
So that allows people to be asvulnerable as possible and that
I'm trying to have a sense ofprivacy, but also people feel
(27:48):
protected.
The hope is we all learn eachother's names.
We build a strong sense ofcommunity.
Help each other out Now.
It's not necessarily requiredto like show your face on the
Google Meet, but I will ask thatpeople use their real names,
just so that we know who you areand we can put a name to your
(28:10):
story.
And I will say if we ever catchwind that someone's out there
sharing people's information,you'll be booted.
I am hoping people will berespectful, because you wouldn't
want that to happen to you.
No trolls, no disrespect willbe allowed.
Like I said, I want it to be avery safe space, different
(28:31):
beliefs and ideas welcome.
No question is a stupidquestion.
We all started somewhere andrepetition is key, right?
Like you, the the more you hearsomething, it stays in your
head.
So if we've already talkedabout it before, that's fine.
We'll talk about it again,because if it helps someone to
hear it over and over again,that's our goal.
(28:52):
We want to be there for peoplelike us who absolutely love
their birds.
And if you are someone whothinks it's funny to make jokes
about how much we love our birds, this group is not for you,
right?
This is not for you.
Like I, you have your own stuff.
You, you stay in your lane,we'll stay in ours.
(29:14):
This is for a very specific typeof person, and that is exactly
why I created it, because I Ididn't see that kind of support
for you know, cause that's thething is on social media, you
know, there have been times likeI wanted to share a lot of
details about what happened witha bird or like, and it may be
(29:38):
too graphic for some, or, justbecause it's under that
secondhand name, I didn'tnecessarily feel safe sharing
that much.
And so, again, this is a placewhere you'll be able to share as
much or as little you know, and, and we can say, to like, if
there are people who are, youknow, less comfortable with
(29:58):
hearing all that, we can askpeople to kind of give like a
warning, like hey, I'm about totalk about this, is that okay?
And if someone doesn't want tohear it, they can leave or mute
until it's done.
But yeah, that's the big thingis, I want everyone to feel safe
, welcome and like they have acommunity that's there to
support them.
Mel (30:18):
I think it's a wonderful thing.
Like you said, we all grievedifferently and we've lost.
I mean you just have to.
I still have some of mydaughters on my original flock
and they're up in like eight ornine years old now and so you
know, over the last 15 years,obviously you're going to have
some type of turnover, even withlongevity of birds, and when we
(30:44):
post about, you know, losingone, like you said, me how I
grieve is, I don't really gointo a lot of it.
I I like to visually, so I makelike a little video or
something, and it's not for show, it's for me.
It it helps me to remember, youknow, all the conversations we
had together and I mean with mybirds, like the conversations
(31:07):
we've had and you know, and thetimes that we've.
Erica (31:11):
It's something you can go back to and it's a happy
memory it is, it's things thatyou keep.
Mel (31:15):
I keep it on my phone and I can look back and you know
those things do.
Erica (31:19):
They help you heal um and honestly, like even each
bird is different Like there aresome losses that I have never
wanted to talk about becausethey were just too traumatic.
There are ones that got mereally fired up, like I want to
(31:43):
talk about it because I'm soangry about the way that this
happened.
There are ones that were justso crushing I couldn't talk
about it for a while but then Iwas like you know, I need to
talk about it because that'sgoing to help me heal.
In this case, it's beendifferent each time and, like
with Eggie, she's the one I justI most recently lost.
So she I didn't really put toomuch in my tribute post to her
(32:08):
Cause it was still like I andand that was kind of what got me
fired up too, about like youknow what I need.
I really need to make this grouphappen, because I was in such a
dark place after her loss andwhat ended up happening was she
had cancer and she was now.
(32:31):
She was over six years old, soshe was considered senior, right
, and they're more susceptibleto that.
But the most frustrating thingfor me and it also frustrated my
vet is we got confirmation thatit was cancer and what kind of
cancer it was, and even then itwas, the vet felt awful because
(32:52):
she was like well, she'sconsidered livestock, like
there's nothing we can do.
And so essentially, like I wastold, because of the
classification of the type ofanimal that she is, I had to
just watch her slowlydeteriorate and die and then,
when that time came, make thecall and that was like the most
(33:14):
gut wrenching thing for me, likeI just I was angry, I was
devastated, I all these thingsat once because it was like, so
even if, let's say, a treatmentwas available, right, and let's
say it costs a couple thousanddollars just to give it a shot,
to give me a chance to try andsave my bird, so because she's
(33:37):
considered food animal, there'snot even an exemption or
something that I can get to try.
That Like would I really bespending that kind of money on
this animal if I was planning onusing it for food purposes?
Like that was.
It too is like there's noprocess for recognizing that
certain of these animals aretruly deeply loved pets and so,
(34:03):
with a lot of things, we're toldsorry, because they're in that
classification, we can't doanything, and so you can either
euthanize now, right, or you can, you know, give them some more
happy time and and wait till it.
And I was just just having tomake that call.
And that's the thing too, isgetting a diagnosis like that
(34:24):
and knowing that there'sabsolutely nothing that can be
done and knowing what the endresult is going to be.
You just don't know when thatwas.
That was really really tough.
And so now, like you know,that's the thing is most of my
flock is most of my flock isolder.
So I was just like, is thisgoing to keep happening?
(34:46):
Like this is going to, this isgoing to like devastate me, like
I can't, I can't handle this.
And so I knew like, if thereare other people that handle it
like me, like we need each other, we need each other.
Mel (35:02):
I agree and I think it's great and I hope you get lots
and lots of people and I'mpretty sure we are signed up for
that.
Yes, I believe you are.
Yes, I don't know what's goingon in life anymore.
Erica (35:15):
No, I'm confused.
Yeah, there's been so much, soso much and that's the thing too
is like it takes a lot out ofyou.
It really does, and that messeswith your brain and just like
how you function.
Mel (35:32):
And with your brain and just like how you function and
it's, it's a lot.
I don't think people.
Well, when I say people, I justmaybe I say me.
But when you have so manythings that you have to do, you
know, like the work part, thefamily part, uh, you know life
part.
But then you have the thingsyou like to do, like hang out
with your birds.
You know, look at birds, lookat other people's birds, you
(35:52):
know your garden and all thatother stuff.
So life just gets like thisbalance.
You have to.
Erica (35:59):
You have to make sure that you're getting the good
stuff and not just the well, andwhen you lose a bird, it makes
that enjoying your birds hardfor a bit right, because you're
like, well, oh no, what did Imiss?
What could I have caught sooner?
And so for a while there you'rejust like completely on edge
(36:21):
and like everything is just ohno, now this one.
And so that's another thing I'mhoping that this group will
help with.
Is, you know, trying to helpwith some of that anxiety that
what anticipatory grief is thatwhat it's called when, like
before you even lose an animal,you're already thinking about
(36:41):
all the ways that you might losethem and you can't just enjoy
their presence, and it makes itso hard.
Mel (36:48):
I think a lot of people, not a lot, but I know some
people who have switched.
I think it's a lot their brainsto where it's more like
micromanagement of your flock.
And I'm not saying that, youknow, you, you definitely need
to keep an eye on them.
We, we say that all the time.
You know, do a little chickencheckup, make sure you, make
sure you know you do X, y and Zjust to keep ahead of it.
(37:08):
But I think sometimes you crossover and it does.
It can create some anxiety ofreally micromanaging.
You know, and what you broughtup when you were saying that
about you know the grief, theanticipation of going to lose,
you know, or the anger when Cocodied, when she was eight.
(37:31):
I mean people, oh, what can yousay?
You know, typically chickensdon't live.
I mean, yes, they can live from, you know, they say eight to 10
years or 10 to 12 years, youknow, and they can live longer
in certain circumstances.
But she was eight, she gotattacked by a hawk in january.
(37:52):
She beat that hawk, she, we, Ifixed her up.
You know even the open gashes.
You know she was on antibiotics.
We went to the vet.
She had pain.
I mean, that girl was justcooking and then like two months
cancer.
She had eyp and she had tumorsand she, yeah, I couldn't do it
(38:15):
anymore.
Like I knew.
She got to the point where shewas suffering and I took her and
to her vet and I'm verygrateful that they could put,
you know, put her to sleep in avery natural way very quickly I
mean it was instantly, but I waspissed.
I was pissed.
I love my chickens, but itwasn't the same.
(38:37):
Coco was like the daughter ofone of my first hens.
Erica (38:46):
And you're like we thought we beat this thing right
, like you survived this awfulthing and then, and that seems
to happen, and sometimes Iwonder, like, do those stressful
events, yeah, I?
Mel (38:58):
believe they make it does that trigger something?
Erica (39:01):
I?
Mel (39:01):
think it maybe didn't, and it's like I think it just
triggered her not being able tofight it any longer to fight it.
Erica (39:08):
Yeah, and that's, and that's something too that like
is so scary, which is why I'malways like, okay, how do I
minimize stress with my chickens, like, if it's too hot, if it's
too cold, if, if they don'thave enough food, they don't
have enough water, if there'sloud sounds, you know like
everything and molting cominginto lay, you know like all
(39:32):
these things can triggersomething.
And so it just it feels likeyou're constantly on edge and
like with Eggie, that girl andI'd never seen this before, in a
way, oddly, it was comforting,like so I it's not to say she
didn't pass peacefully, she, shedid.
(39:53):
She, she passed peacefully, theway that she was euthanized.
But that girl, she was fightingit hard Like, and I kind of, in
an odd way, saw that as like afinal gift, because I knew like
she had already been fighting sohard.
I knew like she had already beenfighting so hard, like I knew
(40:15):
she did not want to go and shethey, especially these spent
girls, they have this like prideto them, like they just will
not let go on their own, and so,like every time, like you have
to help them.
And with her she just was likenope.
And she just was like nope, andshe just kept fighting it and
(40:37):
fighting it, fighting it, andshe even like looked up at me
and she just like locked eyesand I swear I heard in her voice
like I'm so sorry, I didn'twant this and I want you to know
that, you know.
And then I was like it's okay,it okay, and right then she
closed her eyes and then thatwas it, and I was just like oh
(40:58):
my God.
And and you know like whenpeople tell a story like that
about a cat or a dog, everyone'slike oh my gosh, you know, and
they're crying with you.
But there are times, if youtell that story about a chicken,
like people are going to laughat you, you know like like
you're crazy.
And I will tell you right now.
I am grateful because at thetime that I had to make that
(41:21):
call, it was on a frickingweekend, late at night and she,
just she went downhill fast andI was like I can't do this and
like she is weird to that pointwhere she is about to really be
suffering and I can't do this,and like she is weird to that
point where she is about toreally be suffering and I can't
do this.
And so my, my friend, who is avet, but she's not a vet for for
(41:42):
chicken, she's not a chickenspecific vet, but she's learning
.
She was out of town and so shecalled her, her other vet friend
who worked at like a 24 hourclinic or an ER type situation,
and she's like, if I talk youthrough what to do, will you do
this?
This is for my friend, shedoesn't want her bird to suffer.
She was like, well, I have noexperience with chickens, but
(42:04):
yes, I will do it.
So we went in and she, she saidyou know, I don't know anything
about chickens and at firstthey were kind of like, well, I
don't know if you should be herefor this, and I'm like I am
going to be here.
And so she talked to my friendwho was like, look, it's Erica,
she knows what to expect, sheknows what might happen, but
(42:25):
these are her babies, you needto let her be here.
And she's like, okay, okay.
And so she told her exactlywhat to do.
She did everything beautifullyand she even said like at the
end, after everything, like shewas tearing up.
And she even was like I neverthought I would get like this
(42:48):
over a chicken, like I've neverseen someone have such a strong
bond with you know a chicken andshe's like you have know a
chicken.
And she's like you have mequestioning you know myself and
she's like this was so beautifuland so sad.
And she just was like I am, Imean, maybe I should get
chickens, like she's like youknow it.
It changed her perception ofthem seeing, cause that was.
(43:13):
It was a very tough thing to do, you know, but the way that she
saw me react with a chicken,like she'd seen so many other
people do with cats and dogs, Ithink really opened her eyes to
these are just as worthy ofbeing pets to people, and people
love them, you know.
And and she said she was reallyglad that she could help me, so
(43:35):
that my animal was no longersuffering.
Mel (43:39):
Coco and she was euthanized and I sat with her.
Obviously any that I've everhad euthanized, I've sat with
them, just like I would my dogsor cats, and we always get some
of the feathers, the tailfeathers, and I get to bring
that home with me and I have abig vase that's in my closet.
It has all of the tail feathersfrom everyone that you know and
(44:04):
some are buried out here.
They pass naturally.
So I just they have a littlepet cemetery out there, um, but
yeah, what I wanted to say wasis that the veterinarian, they
sent us a little print, a littlechicken ornament thing, and you
know you get those for yourdogs and your cats, you know
from your veterinarian.
(44:25):
But they sent it for my chickenand they had like the whole
office sign it because they knewthat it wasn't.
You know, you were devastated.
Erica (44:36):
So there is hope.
Mel (44:38):
There is hope there is definitely hope I keep.
Erica (44:41):
I keep their little leg bands, that because they each
have their own color andthroughout their life I usually
end up like associating themwith something so like eggy,
because she had that big eggyenergy.
We called her, you know, queenbee, b-e-e, you know, and so
little bees I associate with her, and then that cobra move that
(45:02):
she'd do when she's like tryingto be all big.
So I associate her with thosethings.
So when I, when I see thosethings, I think of those as
signs from her.
But also I get all of my girlscremated because I like the idea
of being able to take them withme wherever I go, and so they
each have their own little boxand then their ashes are in
(45:23):
there.
I have their leg band and thenI have like little trinkets, so
like I have a little like queenbee thing and on the inside it's
got a bee and I have stuff likethat.
But it just the the vet.
She seemed very touched becausemy friend told me that even
after she was like she wastalking about the experience,
(45:44):
the experience, and just likeman, I was touched, like that
was just crazy and I will tellyou right now.
So it's what I, the biggestthings that I deal with, which
makes it tougher in thesesituations, is anxiety, because
that just oh my gosh but alsodepression and the way, the most
(46:08):
peaceful way that I have seen achicken euthanized is.
So first they will kind ofknock them out with ketamine
right Now.
Sometimes, if they are thatkind of far gone, the ketamine
will be enough and they'll justdrift off.
But if not, then that's whenthey'll do the actual euthanasia
.
And so I myself, because a lotof depression meds and stuff
(46:34):
have not worked for me andhopefully someone hears this and
this gives them some peace ofmind.
So I have done ketamine therapymyself to deal with my
depression.
I will tell you right now ifthat is how they were feeling
(46:57):
before the euthanasia evenhappened.
I am 100% at peace with howthey went.
I was just you go to this placeand it's not like you feel high
or you're like seeing all thiscrazy stuff.
It is just a ridiculous senseof peace and comfort.
(47:21):
And I remember thinking while Iwas in that space, like man, if
this is how my chickens go,like, if this is how it is, like
I, I wouldn't mind like dying.
You know what I mean.
Like this is fricking, peacefulLike this, is comforting.
So that brought me a lot, a lotof comfort, knowing that most
(47:47):
likely my chickens, before thatfinal drug was administered,
were feeling like that and therewas no fear, there was no pain,
none of that.
They just that was it and thatthat I.
That really helped a lot.
Mel (48:03):
Yeah, I think this is wonderful.
We we really hope this reachesa lot of people, though, a lot
of people that need it, thatwant it, that's been looking for
it If it's not for you don'tworry about it, you don't even
have to even blink your eyes.
But I feel like there are a lotof people that will benefit
from this.
So where can our, where can ourlisteners find you?
Erica (48:26):
So we are on Instagram.
We are at 2ndhend.
You can also find us on TikTokat that handle.
We're still figuring out TikTok, so bear with us.
Tiktok's so funny.
(48:46):
I finally oh my gosh, I onlymore recently caved.
Oh, I feel like I'm so behind.
And then we're also on Facebook.
You can find us there, Ibelieve also at 2ndhend, or you
can just type out second, theword second and then hend, or if
you just go to the link treeagain in our Instagram profile,
(49:08):
you can get to all of us fromthere and if you want, I can
send you our link tree link sothat you can post that and then
people can find us.
I'll put that in the show notes.
So we have YouTube too, but Imean that's we're not as big
there and that's a lot tomaintain for one person all
these things.
Hallelujah, price of love soyeah, yeah.
Mel (49:30):
So I'm like we're glad that we got to sit with you and we
always appreciate you when youcome on and if you want to adopt
, yes, hey.
Yes you can adopt too.
Erica (49:41):
We're hoping to start making plans for a new batch
sometime this summer.
So, yeah, and that's the thing,you don't have to be in
Missouri to adopt, even if youlive elsewhere.
If you're willing to work withus on transport, like if we have
enough people in a certainplace and we can get that Like
(50:03):
we don't ship birds because wecan't do that and we don't have
enough people to be like here,drive them all across the
country but if we can findvolunteers and there are enough
adopters in certain places, wewill do our best to try and work
something out.
Mel (50:17):
Willman may end up with a one here.
We got lots of room here and myflock is thinning down so mr uh
mr jangles.
Yeah, I'm like mr jangles, heneeds, he needs, he needs some
girls.
Yeah, these old girls don'teven care.
He needs to show them the ropes, the older girls yeah, these
girls are definitely.
Erica (50:36):
They will be impressionable.
So they will not know how tochicken, so he will get to mold
them and teach them all thethings and make them his little
muses.
Mel (50:46):
These heifers don't listen to him, they don't look at him.
Erica (50:50):
Oh, he's going to be in heaven.
Mel (50:56):
They're going to think he's the greatest thing.
Yeah, they're older now andsome of them don't even lay eggs
, so once they stop laying eggs,in my experience they
definitely don't answer to histidbitting or any of that stuff
they don't have those hormonesgoing anymore.
Erica (51:06):
They're like we don't need a man.
Mel (51:07):
It's like menopause they don't care you can get away from
me, but yeah, young blood hewould probably enjoy.
Erica (51:12):
All our adopters with roosters.
They say that like, especiallyif they have like a couple
roosters and one isn't gettingas much love, or he's like not
the dominant one, oh, he's lovedup once he gets some spent
girls, that's so cute, okay.
Well, we thank you.
We'll see you next time.
Mel (51:29):
Bye girl, okay, bye have a good one, you cute, okay, well,
we thank you.
We'll see you next time.
Bye, girl, okay, bye.
Have a good one, bye.
I'm Mel, and you are listeningto Wilma the Wonderhand.
Hey y'all, I'm Mel and you are listening to Wilma the
Wonder Hen.
Are you a chicken-mouth-lovingmama or daddy?
Together we'll dive into thelatest poultry-keeping
adventures, chat about everydaylife, with a generous mix of
some hilarious stories, bringingyou fascinating interviews with
(00:22):
poultry owners from all over.
You'll find tips and basicadvice from your local
veterinarian, along with newchicken keeping gadgets and
reviews.
I'm going to see what MrJangles and Wilma has to say
about that.
We're going to encourage andhelp you build a stronger,
healthier flock.
Let's go see what Mr Janglesand Wilma is up to.
Let's go let these heifers out.
Hi y'all, welcome back.
(00:47):
I'm Mel and this is Wilma theWonder Hens podcast.
Today's guest is Erica ofSecond Hend, which is a 5013C
organization that takes inex-battery hens and gives them a
new life, new opportunities andmedical care and all that good
stuff.
Life, new opportunities andmedical care, and all that good
(01:07):
stuff.
Erica does have a prior episodethat goes into detail, all
about what she does, how shedoes it and how you can help her
to help more hens.
But today Erica is here todiscuss something that is near
and dear to her heart, which is,I assume, is also part of the
second hymn organization.
It's tied in there somehow, sowe're going to let Erica take it
(01:32):
away.
Hi, erica, I'm great.
Erica (01:36):
How are you?
I'm hanging in there.
I'm hanging in there.
The weather's getting hotter,but you know it is what it is,
so I just deal with it.
If you hear little chirps, thatis a chicken.
She is here with me, she's myemotional support animal.
That's okay, which, I guess,honestly, is kind of a good
intro into what I want to talkabout today.
(01:59):
I'm trying to get word outabout an emotional grief support
group for, like, specificallyfor people who love their
chickens like we do.
They see them as pets.
They are absolutely devastatedwhen they lose them.
They either have a veterinarianthat can only do so much or
(02:23):
they don't have any access tovet care because vets in their
area will not see chickens.
So the idea of Birds of aFeather that's what we've been
calling it is to have a virtualmeetup every so often, maybe
start out once a montheventually, as we grow, maybe
(02:44):
twice a month even more.
What I wanted to do was create avirtual support group where
people can join in.
We build close relationshipswith one another so we know each
other by name, we know eachother's chickens, all that good
stuff and the idea is to, ifsomeone has a sick bird, we can
(03:05):
try and talk through it.
If someone has recently lost abird and they want to talk about
it, we are there to support.
If they just want someone tolisten, we're there to listen.
If they want to vent, we'rethere to listen.
If they want advice there tolisten.
(03:26):
If they want advice, we'rethere to give it.
I want everyone to feel supercomfortable with opening
themselves up in that way.
So the goal is for it to be avery, very safe space, and that
is why I have said we will neverrecord any of the sessions and
that's also why I decidedagainst something like a
Facebook group instead.
(03:46):
That just leaves too many doorsopen for people to come in and
troll and hide behind the screen.
Like I said, if you're going toshow up and you're going to
start some stuff like, you willbe held accountable and we'll
see who you are and we can bootyou.
But yeah, everyone the peoplethat are welcome, I don't care
what your beliefs are, we wanteveryone, whether you're
(04:09):
spiritual, not spiritual, I wantall the people to come.
The big thing is you love yourchickens, you want to give them
the best care and you aredevastated when you lose them.
We want to be here for you andfor cause.
I mean, I've lost birds, andespecially in the beginning,
(04:31):
before I met you guys and hadthis great community built,
before I started secondhand, youknow I was scrambling, trying
to find a vet that would see mybird that I could tell was not
doing well and just it was likenope, sorry, we don't see
livestock.
We don't see livestock.
Like even you won't help mehelp them pass, you know like
(04:52):
compassion.
I like I don't want them to justkeep suffering and I just felt
so alone and it felt hopeless.
And I know we can't we can'talways save them from what
they're dealing with, but we cantry and we can be there for
each other.
And maybe there's somethingthat you know, one of us knows
(05:14):
about, that you haven't triedyet and that'll do the trick.
Right, you know.
But if it doesn't work out, wewant to be here to support you
as well.
Mel (05:23):
So can you tell how does this go down Like, is this a
secret group or is this like an?
They email you?
I mean, what platform are youusing to host this type of event
?
So it will be.
Erica (05:36):
It will be a Google meet , and what's going to happen is
on our link tree, which you canget to on our Instagram page as
well as our Facebook page, itsays join Birds of a Feather.
You go to that link.
It's really quick and easy.
You sign up and that will putyou on the email list, and so
(05:59):
that is how we will let peopleknow about upcoming meetings.
And so now, when we're firstkind of getting feelers out
there because so far on the listwe do have people from here in
the States as well as overseasso once I get, once this podcast
(06:20):
goes out and more peoplepossibly join, I'm going to send
out an initial survey justasking what time zone are you in
?
What works best for youweekends, weekdays, evening,
late afternoon, et cetera and soonce I get a better feel for
that, we're going to scheduleour next meetup.
(06:42):
That will go out on thismailing list.
The mailing list will only goout to people who sign up for it
.
I'm very big about.
Even if you have a friend whorecently lost some birds and you
think, oh, they would love this, this is great, I'm going to
sign them up.
Don't do that Right, like younever.
You never know where someone'sat in their grief journey and
(07:05):
they may not be ready for it.
So I always ask if you havesomeone who you think would be
interested, send them the signuplink and when they are ready,
they will sign up or not, maybethey, maybe they.
It's not for them, they don'tprocess their grief in that way.
They don't want to talk aboutit Totally understand.
So that's my big thing is I wantto make sure everyone who's
(07:27):
there and signs up wants to beso.
That is kind of why I've donethings the way that I have.
I won't necessarily beadvertising the meetups on
Instagram or if I do, I may justsay like, hey, for everyone who
got notification everyone onthe list, you know, check your
(07:49):
emails.
We sent out all the details,but I won't be sending the link.
I won't be putting that out onany social media channels.
That will only go out on theemail list and we will say
please don't, you know, forwardthis email because it's for the
people on the list.
My hope is people will berespectful and understand,
because I mean, I'm sure we'veall been there where we've had a
(08:09):
friend sign us up for somethingthat we maybe were like oh, how
do I get out of this Right?
So I don't want there to be anyof that awkwardness ever, but
I'm hoping to in the as we growand in the future.
What I would absolutely love tohappen Cause I already know
some chicken people that aretherapists or they are connected
(08:33):
and already working in, youknow, mental health areas, so
they can come and they canprovide some, you know, expert
opinion or advice from thataspect.
And then for people who areinto that kind of thing Reiki,
healing, animal communicationyou know, even if that's not
(08:53):
your thing, as long as you canrespect that maybe just
believing in that brings comfortto others.
That's that's the goal, right,like that's.
That's the big thing is we justwant to kind of touch all those
bases and make sure thatthere's something for everyone
and that everybody feelssupported.
And we'd like to introduce tolike times where we can, you
(09:13):
know, talk about good husbandry.
You know ways to address someof the most common chicken
issues that we face.
You know heat stress,coccidiosis issues that we face.
You know, heat stress,coccidiosis.
You know we will share ourknowledge and as well as get
into harder stuff and maybe, ifsome veterinarians catch wind
and they want to join, thatwould be great, because then
(09:35):
they could help us talk throughstuff or maybe help people
locate a veterinarian that wouldbe willing to see their birds.
Mel (09:41):
Yeah, I mean I guess that I get.
The question I would say isliability, like on the medical
parts, which I completelyunderstand, don't get me wrong.
Uh, if you're in a position youdon't have access to a
veterinarian, I mean youliterally have no other choice
but to just try and figure itout.
Now, when I had chickens firststarted, they didn't have all
(10:03):
this.
Well, they may have, but I justdidn't know it existed, like
the community chicken community,and never even thought about
needing a veterinarian for achicken.
There's that thing of a lot ofpeople just see them as
livestock and then there'speople like us that see it, you
(10:23):
know, as a companion animal.
So I'm very blessed to have aveterinarian that it's not even
the same veterinarian that seesmy dogs and cats, my.
I have a separate veterinarianthat is a small vet veterinarian
, but they also have a largearena for horses and cattle and
(10:44):
you.
They have a separate part oftheir building for farm animals
and that's what chickens and mygeese are considered farm
animals.
So we go there.
But, like the advice part, youknow, how would you handle that?
You know, if someone did joinand say you know, my chicken is
very sick.
You know what someone did.
Erica (11:06):
Join and say you know my chicken is very sick.
You know what should I do?
So I always, always, always so,and again I have.
I have also been very blessedto have access to veterinarians.
There's like three really goodones that I work with, that like
one of them she's even adoptedfrom us Right.
(11:27):
So she's very passionate aboutthe cause.
And I will tell you right now Iam very aware of my limits and
what I should and should not say, like I, because I also don't
ever want to have someone comeback and be like oh, that thing
(11:49):
you told me to do, it killed mychicken.
I don't want that on myconscience.
No, so, first and foremost, ifsomeone says they have a very
sick chicken, I always say youshould get it seen by a vet if
you can, and I start there.
And then if they come back withwell, I've tried everything, I
can't find anyone that will seechickens, or I don't have a vet,
(12:11):
or they're too far away, Idon't have money Then we kind of
go from there.
You know well, what have youalready tried?
What are the symptoms?
And I start with very basicstuff.
But, like even me, personally Iam very hesitant to recommend
anything like antibiotics unlessa bird has been specifically
tested for something by aveterinarian, and that's also
(12:34):
something that usually you haveto get from a veterinarian.
So things like that I you won'tever see me out there just
being like, oh, here's thedosing for this and treat them
with that.
I will say it sounds like yourbird possibly needs antibiotics,
but you need to get them seenby a vet so they can be tested,
(12:55):
because different antibiotics,right, cover different things
and you don't want to give themthe wrong thing, because then
that could make things muchworse and you don't want that
either right and I'm not.
Mel (13:05):
I'm definitely not saying not give advice, that's not.
That's not what I was leadingup to.
I mean, we, we answer dms frompeople and you know and usually
when I answer I'll point them to, like merc vetcom, that you
know, says yes this is what youdo or whatever you know.
I always try to back it up withresearch or a science based
(13:27):
article.
But definitely people need aplace where they can go and as
long as you have, like you know,a standard of care like this is
the standard of care, this iswhat you know you should do,
this is what you know you shoulddo.
And then when it gets into someof that deeper stuff that you
really are just guessing at,because unless you get a fecal
(13:48):
done or something like that done, you really are just kind of
guessing.
Even like with x-rays, you knowif their crops not working
right, you know they could havesomething lodged they could have
.
You know there's lots of thingsthat could.
They could have?
Erica (14:01):
Yeah, they could have cancer.
You know, like it could notjust be.
I can't make that call Right.
Mel (14:04):
But I mean, I definitely see the need and I definitely
support it because you know,when you have no veterinarian
and you've searched all that youcan search, let's ask someone
who's had chickens a long time.
Taking that with caution, as inthis, may not work for your
bird.
Right With caution, as in this,may not work for your bird.
Erica (14:25):
Right, and we always say that we're like, first of all,
like we're not veterinarians,and this may or may not work.
You know it's.
And you also have to becomfortable with doing whatever
it is, because sometimes a birdwill be so dehydrated that it's
(14:46):
like the only way to get it theamount of fluid that it needs to
not die right then is to do umsub-q fluids.
But again, not everyone hasaccess to the right size of
needle or the right size ofsyringe or the actual fluids
(15:07):
that need to go, and they alsodon't know how, where, where
would they put the fluid.
You know, in those cases it'slike you need to take it to a
vet because you're not going toget those things quickly.
But we do our best with what wehave Right.
Mel (15:23):
I know we talked about when you have very sick birds.
This is kind of jumping ahead,but it's just popped in my mind.
Oh, you're fine.
When you have a very, very sickbird you don't have access to a
veterinarian and I know peoplesay, well, just take it to a
veterinarian Drive.
Two hours to a veterinarianDrive, three hours to a
veterinarian Okay.
Erica (15:43):
That costs money.
Mel (15:44):
That's exactly right.
Not everyone starts with thesame resources.
That doesn't mean that theydon't love that bird any less or
any more than you do.
You know that's a whole nothersubject about resources.
You know, just because youdon't have the same resources
doesn't mean you even shouldn'thave.
I hear that a lot.
Well, you shouldn't have yourbirds.
Then if you can't take them toa vet or you're not living next
(16:05):
to a vet, come on, come on, comeon.
Okay.
But my question, right, we needcompanions.
So my question, uh, was, or mythought was you know, if it gets
to that end of the life, areyou going to have those hard
conversations of maybe how thatyou could, um, euthanize your
bird?
I mean, I only comes up becausethis is something that's not
(16:29):
really talked a whole lot aboutand I think a lot of people need
.
If you don't have a veterinarian, you need to know how to end
the suffering of one of yourbirds right.
Erica (16:41):
Right Now I will say like because me personally I
know even if my bird was likesuffering, I could not like I
know the ways that people can doit.
I don't know enough specificsto be able to walk someone
through that process Like thebest I could do would be point
(17:03):
someone to the internet becauseI know there is stuff out there
about it or maybe someone elsein the group has had to do it.
I personally wouldn't knowwhere to point someone because
my birds have all either passednaturally or they've been
euthanized by a vet because Ihave I I'm lucky to have that
(17:23):
now growing up.
It's a whole other story whathappened with with the animals.
But again, that was me tryingto distance myself from that and
not take part.
But if, if someone came into thegroup and we all kind of had
that that feeling of I thinkyou've really done everything
you can and this bird is at apoint where it's really
(17:45):
suffering and you need to like,consider other things, I would
have no problem allowing thosediscussions.
I don't, I'm saying right now Iwould not be the best person to
give advice on how to do thatbecause I don't know, but if
there were other people who hadthat knowledge, I wouldn't say,
no, you can't talk about that.
(18:05):
Because, first and foremost,that bird suffering is not what
we want, and the longer thatbird suffers, that also causes
more pain for the owner, and wedon't want that either.
They want their bird to finallybe at peace.
So if there's a way to do that,then we're going to quickly and
(18:26):
end that suffering that someonecan help with.
Mel (18:29):
I am okay with that the only reason I brought that up is
because I did see in a groupdifferent group doesn't have
anything to do with you oranybody on the chicken community
, but in a little um over onfacebook but somebody had an
injured bird and she absolutelyloved it.
She was completely distraughtbut a hawk had got it and it
(18:51):
wasn't not to be graphic oranything, but it was definitely
not.
I mean chickens heal so good, Imean they really do, uh, but but
you can tell this was, this wasthe end and she didn't know
what to do.
She didn't have no veterinarian.
She, she literally didn't knowwhat to do to make it stop
suffering and it washeartbreaking, but it did seem
(19:13):
like a few people did messageher privately to help her
through that.
Erica (19:19):
Now I will say, like the only thing that I'm a bit
hesitant about when it comes topeople and again, I know
everyone doesn't have access toa vet and it's really hard.
But I would say if there was away that someone knew, let's say
(19:40):
more medicinal to help thatprocess along.
I would very much promote thator back that, more than I would.
(20:03):
The other methods, yes, yes,yes, go well and it ended up
causing more pain and sufferingto the bird and the person that
did it was like, oh my God, likefreaking out, and so I would
not want that to potentiallyhappen, especially if this
person has never done it beforeand they don't know what they're
doing.
So I would say like, hey, ifyou know of some medications
(20:27):
that maybe give a little bit toomuch of that can help them go
in their sleep, that's more ofwhat I would highly, highly
recommend over the other methods.
But that's just me not wantingthings to go bad and make the
situation worse and moretraumatic.
Mel (20:43):
I'm in my she shed, which is where I podcast and Nugs.
Her goose pen is right next tomine and and she hears my voice
and she's screeching.
Erica (20:52):
That's Blossom over here .
She's making her sounds.
I was like I don't know if youcan hear her, but she sees some
bug that's on the window rightnow and she's like freaking out.
She's like Mom, why aren't youlike taking care of this?
Oh, there she goes, she's like.
So I can't hear Nugs at all,though.
That's good.
Mel (21:08):
You're fine, that's good.
Nugs is crazy.
It's mating season and shedon't have a mate and I've been
looking for a mate for her.
You know it's hard to find anadult gander.
He doesn't know her, he doesn'tknow me, and if you know
(21:28):
anything about geese, they'revery protective.
So if you don't bond with themearly on, you're pretty much
fair game.
So I'm trying to figure out howI would do that and plus
quarantine him because I don'twant any sick birds yeah my
chickens or my geese, I wouldliterally die.
Erica (21:43):
So this may be a stupid question, but could she
potentially like, even if theydidn't have babies, but if she
just like, really bonded withhim, like one of those, like
wild canadian geese who lost amate, like, could, like, could
that?
Mel (22:03):
happen.
I saw someone talking aboutthis.
They actually have one that hadthat has taken up with their
flock and it you know, becausethey come and go throughout the
year.
He would come and then he wouldhang out with the girls, the
ladies, and they would maketheir little nest and he would
(22:24):
protect their nest and stuff andthen he would go back and then
he's like I right bye, I'll beback next year.
Erica (22:33):
I'll be back in a little bit, yeah that's funny I don't
know.
I because I do see like it'sactually it's sad because I see
it pretty frequently anywhereI've lived.
So you have geese, you have thecanadian geese all over right
and a since like one will gethit by a car, and then there's
just one alone and that was itsmate, and it's like wandering
(22:56):
around alone, like just indistress, and I always wondered
like could you potentially takethat goose?
Mel (23:05):
and introduce it to a flock .
I mean, I guess, if you want togo to federal federal prison,
you know, I mean I don't youknow, so I don't know either but
, but if he, but if he flew in,yes, if he flew in like a sheet,
would he be?
Allowed, you know okay, so that.
Erica (23:24):
So that could be a cute love story.
Mel (23:26):
Maybe you need to maybe, maybe, I don't know.
I even thought about buying her.
Like you can go online and getuh toulouse geese, which is what
she is, and you can order them.
But you have to order at leastthree or four, I think it's four
, I don't remember.
But, um, yeah, and I don'treally want that many geese.
(23:47):
And then what if it's threeganders?
And then I'm stuck.
I can't do that.
You can't have that many, sothen I'd have to build a whole
nother place to house them.
So I'm just really picky, rightthis minute.
Unless, like a gander fallsinto the, it doesn't even have
to be a male.
I mean, it could be a female.
If I was going to get one,though, I would want it could be
(24:09):
a female.
If I was going to get one,though, I would want it to be
able to have little nugs babies.
Right, I mean, you can get afemale, they, they don't care
male or female, they're gonnamate in the pool all day long.
Um, you're just not gonna haveany babies.
But anyway, that conversationwent left, didn't it?
Erica (24:25):
no, you're not.
No, I was.
Just I was.
And when you were talking about, you're like I don't want that
many geese.
I'm just thinking my dad had agoose, a pet goose, and this
goose, well, I guess, yeah, itwould be because the boys are
Ganders and the girls are goose.
So, yeah, so it was a gander.
His name was Pacho and this guylived to be at least he was at
(24:48):
least 25 years old.
This guy lived to be at leasthe was at least 25 years old and
he was very like.
My dad was his only personAnyone else tried to get near my
dad.
He like just oh, and he wasmean, he would attack you.
And he taught his three sons tobe exactly the same.
And so it was these four geeseprotecting my dad all the time,
(25:13):
and it was just so.
They live a long time.
So if you get some that aren'tnice, I know what do you do.
Mel (25:18):
I have Jack and Shelby, which is a bonded pair, which is
the other Chinese geese, andJack hates everybody unless it's
me or Robert, and if you comein the yard he will run you out,
and everybody unless it's me orrobert, and if you come in the
yard he will run you out.
And he chased the fedex man theother day.
He didn't get to him because heknew they were out and you
could just see him turningaround and looking and running
(25:39):
it was awful.
I don't allow that.
I don't think it's funny, butit was funny for a second and
right, I mean you had yourchuckle and then it's like be
good I don't.
I don't just allow them to, youknow, chase people up and down
the road, but to have a wholeflock of them trying to control
them, no, thank you, I don'twant it.
Erica (26:00):
I mean, I got self-control, the chickens are
just way more chill, theythey're not as much trouble
geese are.
Mel (26:08):
you've got to be pretty dedicated, I think, to take care
of them, because they havedifferent nutritional needs and
all kinds of stuff.
But anyway, that's enough ofthat.
Yeah no, you're good.
Erica (26:23):
I like talking about all sorts of things, it's okay.
Okay, that was the big points Ireally wanted to hit.
Were people have to make thatchoice to sign up on their own
right?
Yeah, let's recap, let's get arecap.
Yeah.
Mel (26:37):
Erica here it.
Erica (26:39):
It won't be recorded, so people can share as much or as
little as they want.
You can cry, we we can, youknow, and because I do
understand there are people who,you know, grieve in a way where
they may not want to givedetails, they may never want to
talk about it, you know, butgoing and hearing other people
(27:01):
talk helps them.
So, yeah, so you will have tosign up for the mailing list.
That is where all theinformation will be put out is
through the mailing list, andyou can do that through the link
tree on Instagram and ourFacebook pages.
We will not spam you, so theonly information that will go
out on this list is when I getenough people, I'm going to send
(27:24):
out that initial survey andthen it will be here's meeting
details and here's a reminder.
That's it Again.
If you know someone who youfeel would be interested, send
them the sign up link.
Don't sign them up.
Meetings will never be recorded.
So that allows people to be asvulnerable as possible and that
I'm trying to have a sense ofprivacy, but also people feel
(27:48):
protected.
The hope is we all learn eachother's names.
We build a strong sense ofcommunity.
Help each other out Now.
It's not necessarily requiredto like show your face on the
Google Meet, but I will ask thatpeople use their real names,
just so that we know who you areand we can put a name to your
(28:10):
story.
And I will say if we ever catchwind that someone's out there
sharing people's information,you'll be booted.
I am hoping people will berespectful, because you wouldn't
want that to happen to you.
No trolls, no disrespect willbe allowed.
Like I said, I want it to be avery safe space, different
(28:31):
beliefs and ideas welcome.
No question is a stupidquestion.
We all started somewhere andrepetition is key, right?
Like you, the the more you hearsomething, it stays in your
head.
So if we've already talkedabout it before, that's fine.
We'll talk about it again,because if it helps someone to
hear it over and over again,that's our goal.
(28:52):
We want to be there for peoplelike us who absolutely love
their birds.
And if you are someone whothinks it's funny to make jokes
about how much we love our birds, this group is not for you,
right?
This is not for you.
Like I, you have your own stuff.
You, you stay in your lane,we'll stay in ours.
(29:14):
This is for a very specific typeof person, and that is exactly
why I created it, because I Ididn't see that kind of support
for you know, cause that's thething is on social media, you
know, there have been times likeI wanted to share a lot of
details about what happened witha bird or like, and it may be
(29:38):
too graphic for some, or, justbecause it's under that
secondhand name, I didn'tnecessarily feel safe sharing
that much.
And so, again, this is a placewhere you'll be able to share as
much or as little you know, and, and we can say, to like, if
there are people who are, youknow, less comfortable with
(29:58):
hearing all that, we can askpeople to kind of give like a
warning, like hey, I'm about totalk about this, is that okay?
And if someone doesn't want tohear it, they can leave or mute
until it's done.
But yeah, that's the big thingis, I want everyone to feel safe
, welcome and like they have acommunity that's there to
support them.
Mel (30:18):
I think it's a wonderful thing.
Like you said, we all grievedifferently and we've lost.
I mean you just have to.
I still have some of mydaughters on my original flock
and they're up in like eight ornine years old now and so you
know, over the last 15 years,obviously you're going to have
some type of turnover, even withlongevity of birds, and when we
(30:44):
post about, you know, losingone, like you said, me how I
grieve is, I don't really gointo a lot of it.
I I like to visually, so I makelike a little video or
something, and it's not for show, it's for me.
It it helps me to remember, youknow, all the conversations we
had together and I mean with mybirds, like the conversations
(31:07):
we've had and you know, and thetimes that we've.
Erica (31:11):
It's something you can go back to and it's a happy
memory it is, it's things thatyou keep.
Mel (31:15):
I keep it on my phone and I can look back and you know
those things do.
Erica (31:19):
They help you heal um and honestly, like even each
bird is different Like there aresome losses that I have never
wanted to talk about becausethey were just too traumatic.
There are ones that got mereally fired up, like I want to
(31:43):
talk about it because I'm soangry about the way that this
happened.
There are ones that were justso crushing I couldn't talk
about it for a while but then Iwas like you know, I need to
talk about it because that'sgoing to help me heal.
In this case, it's beendifferent each time and, like
with Eggie, she's the one I justI most recently lost.
So she I didn't really put toomuch in my tribute post to her
(32:08):
Cause it was still like I andand that was kind of what got me
fired up too, about like youknow what I need.
I really need to make this grouphappen, because I was in such a
dark place after her loss andwhat ended up happening was she
had cancer and she was now.
(32:31):
She was over six years old, soshe was considered senior, right
, and they're more susceptibleto that.
But the most frustrating thingfor me and it also frustrated my
vet is we got confirmation thatit was cancer and what kind of
cancer it was, and even then itwas, the vet felt awful because
(32:52):
she was like well, she'sconsidered livestock, like
there's nothing we can do.
And so essentially, like I wastold, because of the
classification of the type ofanimal that she is, I had to
just watch her slowlydeteriorate and die and then,
when that time came, make thecall and that was like the most
(33:14):
gut wrenching thing for me, likeI just I was angry, I was
devastated, I all these thingsat once because it was like, so
even if, let's say, a treatmentwas available, right, and let's
say it costs a couple thousanddollars just to give it a shot,
to give me a chance to try andsave my bird, so because she's
(33:37):
considered food animal, there'snot even an exemption or
something that I can get to try.
That Like would I really bespending that kind of money on
this animal if I was planning onusing it for food purposes?
Like that was.
It too is like there's noprocess for recognizing that
certain of these animals aretruly deeply loved pets and so,
(34:03):
with a lot of things, we're toldsorry, because they're in that
classification, we can't doanything, and so you can either
euthanize now, right, or you can, you know, give them some more
happy time and and wait till it.
And I was just just having tomake that call.
And that's the thing too, isgetting a diagnosis like that
(34:24):
and knowing that there'sabsolutely nothing that can be
done and knowing what the endresult is going to be.
You just don't know when thatwas.
That was really really tough.
And so now, like you know,that's the thing is most of my
flock is most of my flock isolder.
So I was just like, is thisgoing to keep happening?
(34:46):
Like this is going to, this isgoing to like devastate me, like
I can't, I can't handle this.
And so I knew like, if thereare other people that handle it
like me, like we need each other, we need each other.
Mel (35:02):
I agree and I think it's great and I hope you get lots
and lots of people and I'mpretty sure we are signed up for
that.
Yes, I believe you are.
Yes, I don't know what's goingon in life anymore.
Erica (35:15):
No, I'm confused.
Yeah, there's been so much, soso much and that's the thing too
is like it takes a lot out ofyou.
It really does, and that messeswith your brain and just like
how you function.
Mel (35:32):
And with your brain and just like how you function and
it's, it's a lot.
I don't think people.
Well, when I say people, I justmaybe I say me.
But when you have so manythings that you have to do, you
know, like the work part, thefamily part, uh, you know life
part.
But then you have the thingsyou like to do, like hang out
with your birds.
You know, look at birds, lookat other people's birds, you
(35:52):
know your garden and all thatother stuff.
So life just gets like thisbalance.
You have to.
Erica (35:59):
You have to make sure that you're getting the good
stuff and not just the well, andwhen you lose a bird, it makes
that enjoying your birds hardfor a bit right, because you're
like, well, oh no, what did Imiss?
What could I have caught sooner?
And so for a while there you'rejust like completely on edge
(36:21):
and like everything is just ohno, now this one.
And so that's another thing I'mhoping that this group will
help with.
Is, you know, trying to helpwith some of that anxiety that
what anticipatory grief is thatwhat it's called when, like
before you even lose an animal,you're already thinking about
(36:41):
all the ways that you might losethem and you can't just enjoy
their presence, and it makes itso hard.
Mel (36:48):
I think a lot of people, not a lot, but I know some
people who have switched.
I think it's a lot their brainsto where it's more like
micromanagement of your flock.
And I'm not saying that, youknow, you, you definitely need
to keep an eye on them.
We, we say that all the time.
You know, do a little chickencheckup, make sure you, make
sure you know you do X, y and Zjust to keep ahead of it.
(37:08):
But I think sometimes you crossover and it does.
It can create some anxiety ofreally micromanaging.
You know, and what you broughtup when you were saying that
about you know the grief, theanticipation of going to lose,
you know, or the anger when Cocodied, when she was eight.
(37:31):
I mean people, oh, what can yousay?
You know, typically chickensdon't live.
I mean, yes, they can live from, you know, they say eight to 10
years or 10 to 12 years, youknow, and they can live longer
in certain circumstances.
But she was eight, she gotattacked by a hawk in january.
(37:52):
She beat that hawk, she, we, Ifixed her up.
You know even the open gashes.
You know she was on antibiotics.
We went to the vet.
She had pain.
I mean, that girl was justcooking and then like two months
cancer.
She had eyp and she had tumorsand she, yeah, I couldn't do it
(38:15):
anymore.
Like I knew.
She got to the point where shewas suffering and I took her and
to her vet and I'm verygrateful that they could put,
you know, put her to sleep in avery natural way very quickly I
mean it was instantly, but I waspissed.
I was pissed.
I love my chickens, but itwasn't the same.
(38:37):
Coco was like the daughter ofone of my first hens.
Erica (38:46):
And you're like we thought we beat this thing right
, like you survived this awfulthing and then, and that seems
to happen, and sometimes Iwonder, like, do those stressful
events, yeah, I?
Mel (38:58):
believe they make it does that trigger something?
Erica (39:01):
I?
Mel (39:01):
think it maybe didn't, and it's like I think it just
triggered her not being able tofight it any longer to fight it.
Erica (39:08):
Yeah, and that's, and that's something too that like
is so scary, which is why I'malways like, okay, how do I
minimize stress with my chickens, like, if it's too hot, if it's
too cold, if, if they don'thave enough food, they don't
have enough water, if there'sloud sounds, you know like
everything and molting cominginto lay, you know like all
(39:32):
these things can triggersomething.
And so it just it feels likeyou're constantly on edge and
like with Eggie, that girl andI'd never seen this before, in a
way, oddly, it was comforting,like so I it's not to say she
didn't pass peacefully, she, shedid.
(39:53):
She, she passed peacefully, theway that she was euthanized.
But that girl, she was fightingit hard Like, and I kind of, in
an odd way, saw that as like afinal gift, because I knew like
she had already been fighting sohard.
I knew like she had already beenfighting so hard, like I knew
(40:15):
she did not want to go and shethey, especially these spent
girls, they have this like prideto them, like they just will
not let go on their own, and so,like every time, like you have
to help them.
And with her she just was likenope.
And she just was like nope, andshe just kept fighting it and
(40:37):
fighting it, fighting it, andshe even like looked up at me
and she just like locked eyesand I swear I heard in her voice
like I'm so sorry, I didn'twant this and I want you to know
that, you know.
And then I was like it's okay,it okay, and right then she
closed her eyes and then thatwas it, and I was just like oh
(40:58):
my God.
And and you know like whenpeople tell a story like that
about a cat or a dog, everyone'slike oh my gosh, you know, and
they're crying with you.
But there are times, if youtell that story about a chicken,
like people are going to laughat you, you know like like
you're crazy.
And I will tell you right now.
I am grateful because at thetime that I had to make that
(41:21):
call, it was on a frickingweekend, late at night and she,
just she went downhill fast andI was like I can't do this and
like she is weird to that pointwhere she is about to really be
suffering and I can't do this,and like she is weird to that
point where she is about toreally be suffering and I can't
do this.
And so my, my friend, who is avet, but she's not a vet for for
(41:42):
chicken, she's not a chickenspecific vet, but she's learning
.
She was out of town and so shecalled her, her other vet friend
who worked at like a 24 hourclinic or an ER type situation,
and she's like, if I talk youthrough what to do, will you do
this?
This is for my friend, shedoesn't want her bird to suffer.
She was like, well, I have noexperience with chickens, but
(42:04):
yes, I will do it.
So we went in and she, she saidyou know, I don't know anything
about chickens and at firstthey were kind of like, well, I
don't know if you should be herefor this, and I'm like I am
going to be here.
And so she talked to my friendwho was like, look, it's Erica,
she knows what to expect, sheknows what might happen, but
(42:25):
these are her babies, you needto let her be here.
And she's like, okay, okay.
And so she told her exactlywhat to do.
She did everything beautifullyand she even said like at the
end, after everything, like shewas tearing up.
And she even was like I neverthought I would get like this
(42:48):
over a chicken, like I've neverseen someone have such a strong
bond with you know a chicken andshe's like you have know a
chicken.
And she's like you have mequestioning you know myself and
she's like this was so beautifuland so sad.
And she just was like I am, Imean, maybe I should get
chickens, like she's like youknow it.
It changed her perception ofthem seeing, cause that was.
(43:13):
It was a very tough thing to do, you know, but the way that she
saw me react with a chicken,like she'd seen so many other
people do with cats and dogs, Ithink really opened her eyes to
these are just as worthy ofbeing pets to people, and people
love them, you know.
And and she said she was reallyglad that she could help me, so
(43:35):
that my animal was no longersuffering.
Mel (43:39):
Coco and she was euthanized and I sat with her.
Obviously any that I've everhad euthanized, I've sat with
them, just like I would my dogsor cats, and we always get some
of the feathers, the tailfeathers, and I get to bring
that home with me and I have abig vase that's in my closet.
It has all of the tail feathersfrom everyone that you know and
(44:04):
some are buried out here.
They pass naturally.
So I just they have a littlepet cemetery out there, um, but
yeah, what I wanted to say wasis that the veterinarian, they
sent us a little print, a littlechicken ornament thing, and you
know you get those for yourdogs and your cats, you know
from your veterinarian.
(44:25):
But they sent it for my chickenand they had like the whole
office sign it because they knewthat it wasn't.
You know, you were devastated.
Erica (44:36):
So there is hope.
Mel (44:38):
There is hope there is definitely hope I keep.
Erica (44:41):
I keep their little leg bands, that because they each
have their own color andthroughout their life I usually
end up like associating themwith something so like eggy,
because she had that big eggyenergy.
We called her, you know, queenbee, b-e-e, you know, and so
little bees I associate with her, and then that cobra move that
(45:02):
she'd do when she's like tryingto be all big.
So I associate her with thosethings.
So when I, when I see thosethings, I think of those as
signs from her.
But also I get all of my girlscremated because I like the idea
of being able to take them withme wherever I go, and so they
each have their own little boxand then their ashes are in
(45:23):
there.
I have their leg band and thenI have like little trinkets, so
like I have a little like queenbee thing and on the inside it's
got a bee and I have stuff likethat.
But it just the the vet.
She seemed very touched becausemy friend told me that even
after she was like she wastalking about the experience,
(45:44):
the experience, and just likeman, I was touched, like that
was just crazy and I will tellyou right now.
So it's what I, the biggestthings that I deal with, which
makes it tougher in thesesituations, is anxiety, because
that just oh my gosh but alsodepression and the way, the most
(46:08):
peaceful way that I have seen achicken euthanized is.
So first they will kind ofknock them out with ketamine
right Now.
Sometimes, if they are thatkind of far gone, the ketamine
will be enough and they'll justdrift off.
But if not, then that's whenthey'll do the actual euthanasia
.
And so I myself, because a lotof depression meds and stuff
(46:34):
have not worked for me andhopefully someone hears this and
this gives them some peace ofmind.
So I have done ketamine therapymyself to deal with my
depression.
I will tell you right now ifthat is how they were feeling
(46:57):
before the euthanasia evenhappened.
I am 100% at peace with howthey went.
I was just you go to this placeand it's not like you feel high
or you're like seeing all thiscrazy stuff.
It is just a ridiculous senseof peace and comfort.
(47:21):
And I remember thinking while Iwas in that space, like man, if
this is how my chickens go,like, if this is how it is, like
I, I wouldn't mind like dying.
You know what I mean.
Like this is fricking, peacefulLike this, is comforting.
So that brought me a lot, a lotof comfort, knowing that most
(47:47):
likely my chickens, before thatfinal drug was administered,
were feeling like that and therewas no fear, there was no pain,
none of that.
They just that was it and thatthat I.
That really helped a lot.
Mel (48:03):
Yeah, I think this is wonderful.
We we really hope this reachesa lot of people, though, a lot
of people that need it, thatwant it, that's been looking for
it If it's not for you don'tworry about it, you don't even
have to even blink your eyes.
But I feel like there are a lotof people that will benefit
from this.
So where can our, where can ourlisteners find you?
Erica (48:26):
So we are on Instagram.
We are at 2ndhend.
You can also find us on TikTokat that handle.
We're still figuring out TikTok, so bear with us.
Tiktok's so funny.
(48:46):
I finally oh my gosh, I onlymore recently caved.
Oh, I feel like I'm so behind.
And then we're also on Facebook.
You can find us there, Ibelieve also at 2ndhend, or you
can just type out second, theword second and then hend, or if
you just go to the link treeagain in our Instagram profile,
(49:08):
you can get to all of us fromthere and if you want, I can
send you our link tree link sothat you can post that and then
people can find us.
I'll put that in the show notes.
So we have YouTube too, but Imean that's we're not as big
there and that's a lot tomaintain for one person all
these things.
Hallelujah, price of love soyeah, yeah.
Mel (49:30):
So I'm like we're glad that we got to sit with you and we
always appreciate you when youcome on and if you want to adopt
, yes, hey.
Yes you can adopt too.
Erica (49:41):
We're hoping to start making plans for a new batch
sometime this summer.
So, yeah, and that's the thing,you don't have to be in
Missouri to adopt, even if youlive elsewhere.
If you're willing to work withus on transport, like if we have
enough people in a certainplace and we can get that Like
(50:03):
we don't ship birds because wecan't do that and we don't have
enough people to be like here,drive them all across the
country but if we can findvolunteers and there are enough
adopters in certain places, wewill do our best to try and work
something out.
Mel (50:17):
Willman may end up with a one here.
We got lots of room here and myflock is thinning down so mr uh
mr jangles.
Yeah, I'm like mr jangles, heneeds, he needs, he needs some
girls.
Yeah, these old girls don'teven care.
He needs to show them the ropes, the older girls yeah, these
girls are definitely.
Erica (50:36):
They will be impressionable.
So they will not know how tochicken, so he will get to mold
them and teach them all thethings and make them his little
muses.
Mel (50:46):
These heifers don't listen to him, they don't look at him.
Erica (50:50):
Oh, he's going to be in heaven.
Mel (50:56):
They're going to think he's the greatest thing.
Yeah, they're older now andsome of them don't even lay eggs
, so once they stop laying eggs,in my experience they
definitely don't answer to histidbitting or any of that stuff
they don't have those hormonesgoing anymore.
Erica (51:06):
They're like we don't need a man.
Mel (51:07):
It's like menopause they don't care you can get away from
me, but yeah, young blood hewould probably enjoy.
Erica (51:12):
All our adopters with roosters.
They say that like, especiallyif they have like a couple
roosters and one isn't gettingas much love, or he's like not
the dominant one, oh, he's lovedup once he gets some spent
girls, that's so cute, okay.
Well, we thank you.
We'll see you next time.
Mel (51:29):
Bye girl, okay, bye have a good one, you cute, okay, well,
we thank you.
We'll see you next time.
Bye, girl, okay, bye.
Have a good one, bye.
I'm Mel, and you are listeningto Wilma the Wonderhand.
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