November 18, 2024 • 29 mins
In this episode of What's Important Now, host Carrie Richardson sits down with Andrew Moore, founder of Ridgeview Advisors, to dive deep into the concept of "Operationalizing Trust" in the managed services provider (MSP) industry.
Andrew shares insights on how scaling trust is critical for MSPs and how it directly impacts profitability, client satisfaction, and business scalability. Andrew recounts his journey from his early days in IT to becoming a COO and now running his own consultancy.
From practical sales strategies, cost of client acquisition, to the art of expectation management, this episode is packed with actionable advice for business owners looking to optimize their operations and build long-lasting client relationships. Whether you're an MSP owner, entrepreneur, or simply interested in operational efficiency, this episode is a must-listen.
Key Takeaways:
- Operationalizing Trust: Scaling trust beyond the owner and embedding it into sales, operations, and client management.
- Cost of Acquisition: The importance of knowing your numbers to improve profitability.
- Expectation Management: How clear contracts and upfront communication can save relationships and margins.
- Scaling MSPs: From hiring the right salespeople to implementing scalable processes, Andrew shares what worked (and didn’t) during his time scaling an MSP from 8 to 65 employees.
- The Power of Letting Go: Why business owners need to trust their teams to grow effectively.
Quotes from Andrew Moore:
- "If you operationalize trust, you’re not just selling a service — you're creating a system that scales trust across your entire business."
- "Understanding your cost of client acquisition is crucial. Most MSPs don't have a handle on these numbers, and it’s a game-changer."
- "Expectation management isn't just a service strategy; it's a business survival skill."
Connect with Andrew Moore:
- Website: Ridgeview Advisors
- LinkedIn: Andrew Moore
Carrie Richardson and Ian Richardson host the WIN Podcast - What's Important Now?
Serial entrepreneurs, life partners and business partners, they have successfully exited from multiple businesses (IT, call center, real estate, marketing) and they help other business owners create their own versions of success.
Ian is certified in Eagle Center For Leadership Making A Difference, Paterson StratOp, and LifePlan.
Carrie has helped create and execute successful outbound sales strategies for over 1200 technology-focused businesses including MSPs, manufacturers, distributors and SaaS firms.
Learn more at www.foxcrowgroup.com
Book time with Carrie here!
Be a guest on WIN! We host successful entrepreneurs who share advice with other entrepreneurs on how to build, grow or sell a business using examples from their own experience.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Carrie Richardson (00:00):
Good afternoon, My name is Carrie
(00:01):
Richardson.
host of what's important now.
today I'm asking Andrew Moore.
Andrew, how are you doing today?
Andrew Moore (00:08):
I am awesome.
I'm super excited to be here.
Thank you so much for theopportunity to hang out.
Carrie Richardson (00:14):
Is this your first podcast
Andrew Moore (00:15):
It's the first time I've had opportunity to do
this, so I'm excited to see howit works.
It should be fun.
Carrie Richardson (00:20):
why don't we start?
Tell me about the new venture.
Andrew Moore (00:25):
I've started Ridgeview advisors and the plan
is to be working with MSPs, tohelp them with, with what I call
operationalizing trust, which isthe, the part that everybody
thinks that they should bedoing, but nobody knows how to
scale, when you're an MSP,you're out there trying to get
your clients to trust you.
and a lot of the times people dothat, just being the owner.
(00:46):
They hit a certain level wherethey just can't get enough
people to trust them all thetime.
and what winds up happening isthey can't scale their business
because everybody wants a pieceof them specifically.
They can't get out there enoughtell their story enough help
their clients enough What I wantto do is figure out how to take
the idea of building trust intoyour community through being a
(01:06):
subject matter expert and lunchand learns partnering with other
B2B organizations.
Draw that through your salesprocess into your operations and
then scale it so that you canbuild real value
Carrie Richardson (01:16):
it's not like you're a newcomer to the space.
you were until recently, part ofa large MSP.
tell us about your journey
Andrew Moore (01:24):
I came directly out of 1999, 2000, getting
Microsoft certifications and Igot a job in MSP.
I'll be honest, I was a terribleemployee I was new to getting a
job I worked for a companycalled E Net and whoever those
guys are, if they hear this,like y'all were right to get rid
of me, I was not good at what Idid.
(01:44):
I went into the federalgovernment, skipped around after
DHS was founded.
I got a chance to work underHomeland security grants That
was a cool experience.
then I started at a companycalled ergos, and there was
about eight or 10 of us at thetime We started to scale and we
built it up in the six yearsthat I was there, 50 or 60 folks
were working there when I left,and they were bought by a
private owner who's still there.
(02:05):
His name is Salim.
And, he's really grown that upto one of the biggest MSPs in
the country.
I started doing The engineeringstuff and, working with the
clients and the figuring out howto build run books and how
documentation time entry andworking with the early part of
connect wise in this environmentand figuring out how that works.
And then I got a chance to meetup with a guy named Ryan Lakin.
(02:26):
and, everything went
Carrie Richardson (02:27):
to hell
Andrew Moore (02:27):
you told me that the one rule of the podcast was
we couldn't actually talk shitabout people.
We'll talk about Ryan.
Carrie Richardson (02:34):
How everybody loves Ryan.
Andrew Moore (02:36):
It's true.
He's been really good to me.
I elevated myself into the,Position the COO with Ryan and,
when we started, like I said,there were about 8 or 10 of us
we built it up over about 12years when there was finally an
exit there after I'd come onboard, we were about 65 people
were about an 11 million MSP,and we were platformed.
(02:59):
Which was amazing.
So we had a private equityinvestor we focused on creating
scalable processes and systems.
we developed an awesome processfor our operations.
We were very profitable butdidn't have good sales coming
in.
I don't think sales Is a darkart.
there's a magic to it.
marketing requires a certain eyethere's a process if you do the
right things when you're dealingin business, if you sit down and
(03:20):
say, are we doing the rightactivity?
Are we targeting the idealclient profile for us?
If we're not just trying to takeeverything in if we're going
through the process and ourroutines of qualifying these
deals as they come through.
So we're not wasting our time wecan drive real sales And then
started that process And then wehad 15 percent year over year
growth for almost four years, itwasn't because I did anything
special, we created a processaround sales.
(03:42):
We talked to you at that, duringthat time, which was like, how
do you make sure that you gotgood lead gen and where are you
going to be bringing these folksin from?
And, how do you do thequalifying process?
And what does that look like?
you kept telling us it's aprocess.
it's a numbers game.
follow a process and a scriptput stuff in place tweak it.
Carrie Richardson (03:56):
You are the only company I ever spoke to
that knew their cost ofacquisition.
You didn't have to look atnumbers.
I was like, Ryan, how much toclose a new client?
He was like 16, 000.
He knew and most MSPs don't,they don't know how much their
leads costs and they don't knowhow much their deals cost.
Andrew Moore (04:17):
I think cost of acquisition is, Way more than
anyone thinks it should be ifyou talk to any MSP They'd be
like, I don't know, like threeor 400 I don't, I don't think
they actually know
Carrie Richardson (04:29):
we would ask that all the time.
that was back when we wereundercharging, When we were a
small business and didn'tunderstand our numbers.
We might've charged 500 a leadat that time, and we should have
been charging 5, 000, but it hasto be a qualified lead and it
has to hit all the high notes,it has to be in the right
industry within a certain windowof evaluation, when an MSP says
(04:54):
that they want leads, whatthey're saying is, I want you to
do all of the work and hand me,A sales opportunity with a bow
on top that is BANT qualified.
all I have to do is go in therewith a contract I've already
filled out and put it in frontof them.
then I want to sign it
Andrew Moore (05:11):
I remember when I first started doing sales, I
still had a problem talkingabout budget.
It made me feel uncomfortablebecause I was like, what if I
scare them away?
I started to realize I reallyneeded to know what that budget
was with that client.
Because if I didn't, I wouldwaste our time.
Like the cost of acquisition isso expensive.
Because you're having to go outand deploy a sales engineer and
review their network and andthat's not even including, like,
(05:34):
how much it's going to cost youto pay your commissions and
your, the marketing spend thatyou're doing and all of it, your
pay per click and all that We asengineers and folks like that,
when we get into MSP, we reallyworry about whether or not we're
going to be able to close thisdeal because we get so few of
these opportunities because wedon't have a refined sales
system or sales process.
(05:54):
And that's why I keep tellingeverybody get these things lined
up, get these opportunitiesqualified.
if you're not qualifyingupfront, then you're pulling
stuff through How often do youget to the point where a
salesperson brings in a lead andthey get all the way to putting
contracts together and somebodyin ops looks at it and goes,
this is terrible.
(06:15):
why are we doing this?
This isn't great for anybody youwind up pulling them through and
you want to give the sales guysome mo and he convinced you to
do it.
now you've got anunderperforming client and that
turns into two or threeunderperforming clients.
And then your margins are crap,That salesperson doesn't stick
around anyway, right?
People have really got to focuson that part of their business
(06:35):
instead of just taking whatevercomes through the door and not
having a process around sales,that's one of the most important
things I learned
Carrie Richardson (06:42):
I have a solution to that problem.
we spent two years building it
Andrew Moore (06:46):
love that.
Carrie Richardson (06:47):
We just took everything our clients were
asking for And productized ityou hit capacity consulting
quickly,
Andrew Moore (06:54):
right?
Carrie Richardson (06:54):
we can support eight Clients.
With a full time Strat Op, orfractional cro gig The total
addressable market is about 55000 MSPs in north america alone.
We could capture one percent ofthe addressable market That
replaces our consulting revenue10 times over.
Andrew Moore (07:14):
you were going to show me a bit of your product at
it nation.
tell me without getting toosales pitchy,
Carrie Richardson (07:18):
first it eliminates most of the grunt
work at the beginning of thesales process.
So let's say you're going tohire in house, you're going to
stop paying the astronomicalthird party lead generation
agency fees.
You're going to stop doing payper click and SEO.
Nobody knows really how itworks, but it's very expensive.
What we have found over and overagain is that MSPs will hire
(07:40):
somebody in sales But they'venever done sales themselves
they've been referral based orthey've grown through word of
mouth and they've never doneorganic sales And they've worked
with third party agencies forsome lead gen here and there,
but now they're going to bring asales rep into the org and they
have no structured process.
Like you mentioned at thebeginning, they do not have a
(08:02):
process to hire.
They think they're getting abargain when they underpay
someone, right?
They're laughing like, Hey, wegot them for 45, 000 a year.
And I'm thinking like, that'snot a sales rep.
That is an HR nightmare waitingto happen and they don't have
the tools set up for them.
They don't have any way toexplain to them how they're
going to make money, what theircommission is going to be,
(08:26):
right?
Like you look at a hundredReddit posts.
what should I pay a sales rep?
How much commission should I paythem?
how about we start at the verybeginning with what am I going
to teach them to do?
Because just because they soldinsurance successfully for four
years in Oklahoma doesn't meanthat they're going to be able to
sell managed services in NewYork, and they can't put
(08:48):
together their own playbook andtheir own process.
Sales reps aren't process peoplewere talkers were dreamers.
We're very convincing, but westill need somebody to say, here
is how you get from a to B, hereare the steps that you have to
take here, the guidelines or theparameters we need you to stay
(09:09):
within.
Here's how profitable we needour accounts to be.
Oh, and here's what managedservices is.
It's not a broken printer.
So we've created a platform thatfirst of all, starts at what is
managed services.
So instead of you, businessowner, having to take a week of
your time to sit down andexplain your own business model
(09:33):
to a sales rep, we've handledthat for you.
We've handled the playbooks.
We've handled every singleprocess that a sales rep would
need to know to be successfulwithin a managed service
organization, starting from coldcalling and lead generation to
sales discovery and closing.
Andrew Moore (09:50):
what I think is super cool is as we scaled our
business, we had 40 or 50 peoplein the service delivery team.
I had a couple of leads and wasbusy Being COO, I took on one
marketing person, one salesadmin, and an actual sales
hunter.
And that became 80 percent of mytime.
And that was just at the verybeginning, right?
(10:11):
Then we start layering on newsalespeople.
what I warn folks about isthere's that chicken or the egg
do you hire a sales manager?
Do you hire a rep?
But if you don't have somebodywho's willing to manage a sales
rep, then you have no businesshiring a sales rep, if you're
not going to do it yourself, oryou're not going to hire a
manager to build that programfor you to then hire sales reps
(10:34):
then I don't think you should doit.
You got to have somebody that'slike.
In your business that knows howyour business works and working
with that sales rep on a almostdaily basis.
Carrie Richardson (10:42):
This platform will do fractional CRO for you.
Andrew Moore (10:47):
After we platform, we work with a private equity
group.
We brought in a few companies,from around the country I had
been going hard since thepandemic, I needed to.
Take a step back from clientdelivery and some other things.
And I really needed to catch mybreath.
And what I thought was reallyimportant was I'm in peer groups
and I don't see enough highquality talent on the consulting
(11:12):
side.
That's not to say there's notout there, but to your point,
there's 55.
Thousand MSPs or some ridiculousnumber.
I felt like there was a place toget involved and say, hey, let's
have some one on one do I wantto empire build with this?
Probably not.
I don't know if I want to.
Try to replicate myself 15 timesand try to build some big
consulting firm out of this.
But for the right, for rightnow, I want to get back to
(11:33):
helping people again.
I want to get back to just beingin the day to day helping them
grow their business.
That's exciting to me.
Carrie Richardson (11:38):
I love small businesses.
when we worked for largevendors, we were a line item we
did well for them.
But when we worked for a smallbusiness and helped them land
the biggest client they'd everhad.
And it changed the course oftheir business forever.
To a 1 million or 2 million MSPthat, 6, 000 monthly recurring
(12:01):
client or that 15, 000 monthlyrecurring client is significant
revenue
Andrew Moore (12:08):
So my dad ran his own small business we knew if
the business didn't do well,like he was going to be a shitty
Christmas and, or if we were, ifwe happened to go on a family
vacation, we may stop at aclient.
On the way, because my dad waslike we're hitting by here
anyway.
Like it was just so ingrained ineverything we did as a family
and how important it was to himthat if anything went sideways
with that business, it affectedall of us and all of his
(12:30):
employees.
And it was super important tohim and all of us.
to be in a position with Ryan,where he would give me so much
opportunity to manage hisbusiness on behalf of him his
family and our employees.
it was never lost on me thatthere was a level of trust that
most people don't understandunless you're in small business.
I loved being an MSP and I thinkit's so important and so
privileged for the MSP communityto be out there servicing these
(12:53):
folks.
I want to get back involved withMSPs at that level knowing what
they need and how important itis to have an advisor helps them
through that process.
so they can do the same fortheir clients.
To me, it's cool.
Carrie Richardson (13:04):
My first client was, an MSP out of
Canada.
he'll be at Evolve this year.
He just became a client of oursfor the platform.
So 12 years ago, my first clientis now a client again.
that to me is extraordinarilyflattering,
Andrew Moore (13:20):
The reason I gravitated towards sales and
marketing is I'm creative, so Ilike to create things.
And so for me, like when I wouldbuild environments for our
clients, it was always justabout, it was almost like Legos.
If you've got a mind for detail,you can be an MSP if you've got
a mind for creativity and how tointerface things together.
You can be an MSP if you're apeople person.
You can be an MSP if you're, aserver troll and don't like
(13:44):
people and you wanna hide in aserver room somewhere and be on
the NOC there's all these thingsyou can do in MSP.
I don't know if you've noticedthis.
I don't know how many frustratedmusicians I've met in MSP.
in our last MSP, we had a band.
There were so many of them, Iswear to God, like we had a band
and everybody was like, yeah, Iplay guitar, play drums.
I had a saxophone player.
a flutist.
We did Jethro Tull covers it'scool to find all these different
(14:06):
types of people, whether they'resuper professional, like to
consult or super introvertedthey can all come together
around a common cause, which isone of my favorite things is
that it was when the MSP.
It's terrible, but awesome.
It's like when shit hits the fanand everybody gets together and
they help a client.
And at the end of the day, youdid something awesome.
The client's super excited it'ssuper rewarding.
different types of peopletogether achieve stuff they
(14:27):
didn't think they could It'ssuper fun.
I love it.
Carrie Richardson (14:29):
Who else is starting another MSP now?
Who swore they never would.
Andrew Moore (14:33):
Yeah.
It's crazy.
They get right back in.
it's interesting to see howexcited they get about it again,
because they take all this stuffthey learned and start applying
it, which is really cool towatch.
Carrie Richardson (14:43):
The second time around is, easier.
Andrew Moore (14:45):
I've done this for 20 years.
My dad worked for 20 years.
sold his company for a littleover a million dollars, it put
food on our table.
he wasn't an MSP, I knew weweren't rich, but it doesn't
matter how hard you work, Thatdoesn't necessarily equate to
how much your business is worth.
It's what the market will payfor your business.
Go to where the work is.
know what your numbers need tobe and don't be afraid to make
(15:07):
tough decisions.
whether that's walking away froma sales opportunity, that might
seem like a good idea.
Firing a loud client.
Because they're obnoxious.
Can I ask you a question I wantto know, have you seen with your
clients, a shift since thepandemic where everybody in
service Is I don't care aboutyour feelings.
(15:28):
workload.
SLAs.
contract.
I need this fixed now.
And I'm going to jump the line.
And I'm like, there is little tono patience I feel like anymore,
or maybe now I've just gottenold and I'm like, get off my
lawn, but I feel like in thelast like few years, like
patients for anything servicerelated has just been
eliminated.
people are just.
Irritated all the time.
Is that just me?
Carrie Richardson (15:47):
Ian, after he sold his MSP, refuses to do any
tech work I sold in 2020.
I haven't had to call forsupport for, four years.
I haven't found people beingthat way with us.
Like I haven't found our clientsbeing like, but again, there are
no sales emergencies.
Just set firm boundaries.
(16:08):
when we started we ignored ourfamilies while we built our
businesses, And we've gotdivorces to show for it.
my kids are still speaking tome.
But I was like your dad onsummer vacation.
And so I five more minutes, fivemore minutes, my kids to death
for 10 years We took stock ofwhat we wanted and it helps to
have a little bit of money inthe bank now I can say, this is
what I want my life to looklike.
(16:31):
And I'm not going to work withclients that don't respect what
I want my life to look like.
I don't have my email on myphone anymore.
If I get an email after five itdoesn't get looked at until
tomorrow.
Andrew Moore (16:43):
awesome.
Carrie Richardson (16:43):
Ian's a Paterson StratOp guide, and he
also does life planning.
a strategic plan for your life.
We both went through thatprocess to see what we want the
rest of our lives to look like?
Andrew Moore (16:55):
that's cool.
Carrie Richardson (16:56):
didn't look like taking calls from clients
at 10 o'clock at night.
Andrew Moore (17:01):
That's it.
And that's the thing about MSPit's almost like being a doctor
in that regard.
I'm not saying you're savinglives.
Please don't take that out ofcontext.
I just mean, it's when you gotto really helping people and you
got to really take what you do.
seriously to a point.
Like we used to say it all thetime.
It's we're not curing cancer, Iwanted to make sure people,
didn't get so stressed out withtheir job that they took that
(17:23):
too seriously about listen the,sometimes our problems will be
there tomorrow.
And that balance in MSP has beenreally hard.
And I feel in the last fewyears, it's just that people
have been really focused onmaybe they feel like at least in
business we had a lot ofcatching up to do.
We really need to take advantageof what's going on with the
economy right now.
Hey, Let's go.
Maybe it's just the climatewhere people are frustrated and
(17:44):
don't know where to, Put thatfrustration.
they take it out on the guy onthe phone there's this level of
anxiety that everybody's gotwhen it comes to wanting to get
things knocked out when it comesto it.
But I also think it might justbe because everybody has to be
on all the time.
you're at home, you're working,you're on the road, you're
working right.
Like it.
Everybody is on everywhere thatthey go and they just expect
(18:05):
everything to work flawlessly.
so if you get somebody thatcalls they're like, I can't get
my job done today.
let me see if I can log in andfigure out what's going on.
I'm in a hotel room in Bostonstaying here for a couple of
days working remote.
We don't have documentation onthat.
then everybody gets frustrated.
I was told I could workanywhere.
You can't
Carrie Richardson (18:20):
expectation management is a big, important
part of onboarding that I thinka lot of MSPs just gloss over.
Andrew Moore (18:27):
Yeah.
We used to have a saying Aclient will let you burn down
their house as long as you tellthem when you're going to do it,
how long it's going to take.
Carrie Richardson (18:32):
Yes.
I couldn't have said it bettermyself.
Andrew Moore (18:35):
Have that conversation up front make sure
it's in the contract and youmake sure that you're supporting
it so that when an emergencycomes up, you handle it the
right way.
when they try to circumventthat, you can have a
conversation with we really,we'll do it for you this time,
or we can do it, but it's goingto cost more, or we can't get to
it because, we've got theseother things that are going on.
And this is not what we agreedto, right?
(18:56):
And I think there are so manyentrepreneurs and business
owners feel building trust comeswith saying yes.
not defining what their servicelooks like.
this is what we're going to dofor you.
And this is what you're going todo for us, be patient, follow
the rules, pay us on time.
Carrie Richardson (19:11):
Not be shitty
Andrew Moore (19:12):
Oh God.
Yeah.
I think that level of give andtake, if you're doing it the
right way, setting that examplein the way that you're putting
together your outside marketing,whether that's.
Lunch and warns with existingclients that are good where
you're bringing prospects inright or events or whatever that
looks like we're going out toshows and you're doing speaking
engagements if you're instillingthat into what you're doing and
(19:33):
pulling it through, and buildingyour sales process you can
understand what the client islike.
Throughout this process, thatturns into happier clients that
trust you, allow you to sell newand interesting things as our
industry and business changes,right?
So you're going to have upsellcross all opportunities.
You're going to have low churn.
They're going to bring inreferrals for you.
(19:53):
Your margins are going to stayin line because you built
something that they understandthat they're going to stick to
so that you don't have to like,like how many times have MSPs
got excited because they pulledsix people off of something, to
go fix this thing that theclient dropped in their lap at
the last minute.
They're like, Oh, we bought anew server.
We need to install thisafternoon.
And then you're like, yay, wedid all that.
what you wound up doing waspissing off seven other clients
(20:15):
because you didn't get to theirshit.
So I think that if you do allthese things right back to your
point of just creating a levelof hate expectation management
from the beginning and holdingto it with some flexibility, but
mostly sticking to it.
To me, that's the missing thingmost MSPs don't have.
if you do it that way, You can'thelp but scale it because it's
(20:37):
not dependent on the owner'spromises or the sales guy's
promises or Steve on the desktaking every single call
Carrie Richardson (20:45):
you know how you get the best support?
You marry someone who owns anMSP.
Andrew Moore (20:50):
My wife and I met at computer school, getting our
Microsoft certifications.
And so she has like a full blownMCSE for Microsoft, 2000 active
directory.
15 years ago, she startedfocusing more on like product
management and SAS solutionsand, development and all that.
So she's over there in thatspace now.
I never fully finished my MCSElike she did and she's like the
printer has a problem I'm like,get a new printer.
Carrie Richardson (21:11):
All right.
So this is going to be yourfirst it nation as a vendor.
What are you going to do?
what's it going to be like foryou?
Andrew Moore (21:19):
I was telling friends on my morning walk
normally I go and I get winedand dined and, this year
everybody's all get bent.
Like you don't have any money.
Normally I'll just go and I'lllike, hang out and I'll network
and make memories, but thisyear, my focus is going to be, I
really want, so there's a coupleof different things I really
want to do.
I really want to walk the floorbecause I know it usually once
or twice I have to walk on thefloor.
(21:39):
Like you get a feel for it, butI want to see what's out there,
who's coming up with somethingnew I know AI is the big
hotness, but I want to see whatpeople are doing to actually
implement it in a way that makessense.
And I think that there are someuse cases that are really
interesting to see who's messingwith it.
Carrie Richardson (21:55):
Somehow figure out how to, get Ryan
Lakin.
Blackballed at the bar.
I haven't figured out how to dothat.
My advice for a new vendor inthe channel at IT Nation is go
to breakfast.
Andrew Moore (22:07):
They're doing universal one night.
I don't know what part of thepark
Carrie Richardson (22:10):
never go to that.
Andrew Moore (22:11):
It's actually pretty cool.
they quarantine this section andcall it the superhero section
the one time we went and you getto get on all the rides as much
as you want.
it was super fun.
I love going to see live shows.
I've never seen stone templepilots.
The connect wise thing of Fridaynight.
That's what I heard.
Carrie Richardson (22:25):
I might go to that this year.
My best advice is workbreakfast.
Always get up and go tobreakfast.
The food is never good, but whatI like to do is get I get a cup
of coffee.
And then I like, Oh, is anyonesitting here?
And then I sit down for a minuteand I like, start talking to
people see who they are and whatthey're doing.
if there's nothing interesting Iget up with my coffee and I go
(22:47):
to the next one.
And I wait until I find thetable where I feel like.
I might actually be able to dosome business get a bit of fruit
exchange business cards and eathalf my breakfast at six
different tables.
Andrew Moore (22:58):
cool.
Carrie Richardson (22:58):
Those are the people that came to work not
sleeping through the keynote andthey're they didn't go out late
partying last night they'retrying to figure out how their
businesses work.
they got up on time.
those are the people that I wantto talk to you, the people that
are like actually there toattend sessions, not the Andrew
Moores who drink until two inthe morning.
Andrew Moore (23:18):
that's not me anymore.
Carrie Richardson (23:19):
you have to join me at breakfast.
go hustle
Andrew Moore (23:21):
Yeah, that's true.
Carrie Richardson (23:23):
Yeah, there's an art form from going from like
the question to the pitch.
Yeah, when you're at a meal orround tables in the exhibition
hall, they usually have thoselittle round tables
Andrew Moore (23:34):
I bet I could sit down with 10 of them and they
could give me a quick two minutespiel on how they're running
their business.
I should go walk around.
Carrie Richardson (23:40):
See you at it nation.
Andrew Moore (23:42):
Yes, ma'am.
Carrie Richard (23:44):
Operationalizing trust.
What does it mean?
Andrew Moore (23:48):
When you operationalize trust for a
managed services provider, it'staking what the owner, what the,
the lead engineer, the peoplethat have been working directly
with the clients, what you'redoing is you're taking the
essence of that trust that getsbuilt and instilling it into
every aspect of what you do in ascalable way by taking it all
(24:09):
the way out to your pre salesengagements through your
marketing in the community, Howyou're interacting with other
businesses, how you'representing yourself on LinkedIn,
right?
Being able to say, this is howyou run a business.
giving free advice, pulling thatthrough into the sales process
to be that subject matterexpert, then in your contracts
and how you explain to clients,what your expectations should be
(24:32):
setting boundaries, You buildthat into the sales process and
pull that into operations.
So the client knows what they'regetting the entire road all the
way through execution.
And then what that's going to dois it's going to keep your
margins in line, Becauseexpectations have been set, they
know what they're getting into.
It's going to bring in betterclients because you've been
educating them from thebeginning and they're
interacting with your clientbase they have an idea of what
(24:53):
it means to work with you.
You've built your sales processto demonstrate to them how trust
is earned and how you're goingto operate together.
And so all those things cometogether to lowering churn, not
dropping the client, creating amuch better experience for the
client and having bettermargins.
and then all of that results inbetter EBITDA, right?
So you're going to grow yourbusiness.
(25:13):
You're going to have moreprofitable business and trust is
going to be something thathappens throughout the system.
if you do it that way, you can'thelp, but spread it through your
organization.
it's not just one person doingit, the owner can't let go of
the vine and move on if youoperationalize trust, you put it
into everything so that at everytouch point, you're putting a
system in place that allows theowner to then take what they're
(25:35):
really good at, which isTechnology and trust and all the
things of being a business ownerand instill it into the
business.
As the owner you gotta startletting go and moving on people
can't do it because they can'ttrust that something's getting
done.
But if you look at putting trustinto the way that you're doing
things.
And this isn't like a scam.
You're not trying to trickpeople into trusting you.
What you're trying to do isoperationalize it in such a way
(25:56):
that it becomes scalable.
that's when you make an impactin your community.
And that's what the businessowners want.
Like you can grow a business,but a lot of business owners
like being out there, justmeeting with other business
owners and helping theircommunity out.
And a lot of people got intothis business to help.
You can only help a finitenumber, People, unless you
operationalize the way that youbuild that trust and the way
that you execute on things andgrow that trust moving forward.
(26:19):
And that's what my goal is tohelp MSp owners do that.
Operationalizing trust.
The first show that I ever wentto with Microsoft shows they had
emotional, support animals wherethey would just bring in dogs
and then they would walk around.
They were like, conferencing'shard play with a dog and they
would just have puppies and thenyou would just get to play with
the puppies.
And then they're like, Oh, areyou tired?
Here's a wall of doughnuts.
(26:40):
And you would walk over thereand they would just like a wall
of donuts and we would play withpuppies.
And I was like, this is waybetter.
Carrie Richardson (26:47):
The best conference I ever went to was a
Las Vegas conference put on bythe people that make trade show
booths.
It was like everybody just likeshowing off for each other.
And it was incredible.
It was at one of the largestconference centers all the
companies that make the boothsor create experiences.
(27:09):
one of them was a full 1920sGatsby style speakeasy.
the next one was a fiftiesdiner.
And candy shop, they had actualcandy you'd sit they'd bring you
a malted and you'd sit down withone of the sales reps.
And on the way out, they gaveyou a bag and you filled it up
with candy.
Andrew Moore (27:26):
That's super meta.
reminds me of that scene inAustin Powers where he's we have
a factory that makes miniaturemodels of factories.
Carrie Richardson (27:32):
Thanks for joining us today
Andrew Moore (27:34):
Super fun.
I will see you next week
Carrie Richardson (27:37):
take care.
Andrew Moore (27:37):
Bye.
Good afternoon, My name is Carrie
(00:01):
Richardson.
host of what's important now.
today I'm asking Andrew Moore.
Andrew, how are you doing today?
Andrew Moore (00:08):
I am awesome.
I'm super excited to be here.
Thank you so much for theopportunity to hang out.
Carrie Richardson (00:14):
Is this your first podcast
Andrew Moore (00:15):
It's the first time I've had opportunity to do
this, so I'm excited to see howit works.
It should be fun.
Carrie Richardson (00:20):
why don't we start?
Tell me about the new venture.
Andrew Moore (00:25):
I've started Ridgeview advisors and the plan
is to be working with MSPs, tohelp them with, with what I call
operationalizing trust, which isthe, the part that everybody
thinks that they should bedoing, but nobody knows how to
scale, when you're an MSP,you're out there trying to get
your clients to trust you.
and a lot of the times people dothat, just being the owner.
(00:46):
They hit a certain level wherethey just can't get enough
people to trust them all thetime.
and what winds up happening isthey can't scale their business
because everybody wants a pieceof them specifically.
They can't get out there enoughtell their story enough help
their clients enough What I wantto do is figure out how to take
the idea of building trust intoyour community through being a
(01:06):
subject matter expert and lunchand learns partnering with other
B2B organizations.
Draw that through your salesprocess into your operations and
then scale it so that you canbuild real value
Carrie Richardson (01:16):
it's not like you're a newcomer to the space.
you were until recently, part ofa large MSP.
tell us about your journey
Andrew Moore (01:24):
I came directly out of 1999, 2000, getting
Microsoft certifications and Igot a job in MSP.
I'll be honest, I was a terribleemployee I was new to getting a
job I worked for a companycalled E Net and whoever those
guys are, if they hear this,like y'all were right to get rid
of me, I was not good at what Idid.
(01:44):
I went into the federalgovernment, skipped around after
DHS was founded.
I got a chance to work underHomeland security grants That
was a cool experience.
then I started at a companycalled ergos, and there was
about eight or 10 of us at thetime We started to scale and we
built it up in the six yearsthat I was there, 50 or 60 folks
were working there when I left,and they were bought by a
private owner who's still there.
(02:05):
His name is Salim.
And, he's really grown that upto one of the biggest MSPs in
the country.
I started doing The engineeringstuff and, working with the
clients and the figuring out howto build run books and how
documentation time entry andworking with the early part of
connect wise in this environmentand figuring out how that works.
And then I got a chance to meetup with a guy named Ryan Lakin.
(02:26):
and, everything went
Carrie Richardson (02:27):
to hell
Andrew Moore (02:27):
you told me that the one rule of the podcast was
we couldn't actually talk shitabout people.
We'll talk about Ryan.
Carrie Richardson (02:34):
How everybody loves Ryan.
Andrew Moore (02:36):
It's true.
He's been really good to me.
I elevated myself into the,Position the COO with Ryan and,
when we started, like I said,there were about 8 or 10 of us
we built it up over about 12years when there was finally an
exit there after I'd come onboard, we were about 65 people
were about an 11 million MSP,and we were platformed.
(02:59):
Which was amazing.
So we had a private equityinvestor we focused on creating
scalable processes and systems.
we developed an awesome processfor our operations.
We were very profitable butdidn't have good sales coming
in.
I don't think sales Is a darkart.
there's a magic to it.
marketing requires a certain eyethere's a process if you do the
right things when you're dealingin business, if you sit down and
(03:20):
say, are we doing the rightactivity?
Are we targeting the idealclient profile for us?
If we're not just trying to takeeverything in if we're going
through the process and ourroutines of qualifying these
deals as they come through.
So we're not wasting our time wecan drive real sales And then
started that process And then wehad 15 percent year over year
growth for almost four years, itwasn't because I did anything
special, we created a processaround sales.
(03:42):
We talked to you at that, duringthat time, which was like, how
do you make sure that you gotgood lead gen and where are you
going to be bringing these folksin from?
And, how do you do thequalifying process?
And what does that look like?
you kept telling us it's aprocess.
it's a numbers game.
follow a process and a scriptput stuff in place tweak it.
Carrie Richardson (03:56):
You are the only company I ever spoke to
that knew their cost ofacquisition.
You didn't have to look atnumbers.
I was like, Ryan, how much toclose a new client?
He was like 16, 000.
He knew and most MSPs don't,they don't know how much their
leads costs and they don't knowhow much their deals cost.
Andrew Moore (04:17):
I think cost of acquisition is, Way more than
anyone thinks it should be ifyou talk to any MSP They'd be
like, I don't know, like threeor 400 I don't, I don't think
they actually know
Carrie Richardson (04:29):
we would ask that all the time.
that was back when we wereundercharging, When we were a
small business and didn'tunderstand our numbers.
We might've charged 500 a leadat that time, and we should have
been charging 5, 000, but it hasto be a qualified lead and it
has to hit all the high notes,it has to be in the right
industry within a certain windowof evaluation, when an MSP says
(04:54):
that they want leads, whatthey're saying is, I want you to
do all of the work and hand me,A sales opportunity with a bow
on top that is BANT qualified.
all I have to do is go in therewith a contract I've already
filled out and put it in frontof them.
then I want to sign it
Andrew Moore (05:11):
I remember when I first started doing sales, I
still had a problem talkingabout budget.
It made me feel uncomfortablebecause I was like, what if I
scare them away?
I started to realize I reallyneeded to know what that budget
was with that client.
Because if I didn't, I wouldwaste our time.
Like the cost of acquisition isso expensive.
Because you're having to go outand deploy a sales engineer and
review their network and andthat's not even including, like,
(05:34):
how much it's going to cost youto pay your commissions and
your, the marketing spend thatyou're doing and all of it, your
pay per click and all that We asengineers and folks like that,
when we get into MSP, we reallyworry about whether or not we're
going to be able to close thisdeal because we get so few of
these opportunities because wedon't have a refined sales
system or sales process.
(05:54):
And that's why I keep tellingeverybody get these things lined
up, get these opportunitiesqualified.
if you're not qualifyingupfront, then you're pulling
stuff through How often do youget to the point where a
salesperson brings in a lead andthey get all the way to putting
contracts together and somebodyin ops looks at it and goes,
this is terrible.
(06:15):
why are we doing this?
This isn't great for anybody youwind up pulling them through and
you want to give the sales guysome mo and he convinced you to
do it.
now you've got anunderperforming client and that
turns into two or threeunderperforming clients.
And then your margins are crap,That salesperson doesn't stick
around anyway, right?
People have really got to focuson that part of their business
(06:35):
instead of just taking whatevercomes through the door and not
having a process around sales,that's one of the most important
things I learned
Carrie Richardson (06:42):
I have a solution to that problem.
we spent two years building it
Andrew Moore (06:46):
love that.
Carrie Richardson (06:47):
We just took everything our clients were
asking for And productized ityou hit capacity consulting
quickly,
Andrew Moore (06:54):
right?
Carrie Richardson (06:54):
we can support eight Clients.
With a full time Strat Op, orfractional cro gig The total
addressable market is about 55000 MSPs in north america alone.
We could capture one percent ofthe addressable market That
replaces our consulting revenue10 times over.
Andrew Moore (07:14):
you were going to show me a bit of your product at
it nation.
tell me without getting toosales pitchy,
Carrie Richardson (07:18):
first it eliminates most of the grunt
work at the beginning of thesales process.
So let's say you're going tohire in house, you're going to
stop paying the astronomicalthird party lead generation
agency fees.
You're going to stop doing payper click and SEO.
Nobody knows really how itworks, but it's very expensive.
What we have found over and overagain is that MSPs will hire
(07:40):
somebody in sales But they'venever done sales themselves
they've been referral based orthey've grown through word of
mouth and they've never doneorganic sales And they've worked
with third party agencies forsome lead gen here and there,
but now they're going to bring asales rep into the org and they
have no structured process.
Like you mentioned at thebeginning, they do not have a
(08:02):
process to hire.
They think they're getting abargain when they underpay
someone, right?
They're laughing like, Hey, wegot them for 45, 000 a year.
And I'm thinking like, that'snot a sales rep.
That is an HR nightmare waitingto happen and they don't have
the tools set up for them.
They don't have any way toexplain to them how they're
going to make money, what theircommission is going to be,
(08:26):
right?
Like you look at a hundredReddit posts.
what should I pay a sales rep?
How much commission should I paythem?
how about we start at the verybeginning with what am I going
to teach them to do?
Because just because they soldinsurance successfully for four
years in Oklahoma doesn't meanthat they're going to be able to
sell managed services in NewYork, and they can't put
(08:48):
together their own playbook andtheir own process.
Sales reps aren't process peoplewere talkers were dreamers.
We're very convincing, but westill need somebody to say, here
is how you get from a to B, hereare the steps that you have to
take here, the guidelines or theparameters we need you to stay
(09:09):
within.
Here's how profitable we needour accounts to be.
Oh, and here's what managedservices is.
It's not a broken printer.
So we've created a platform thatfirst of all, starts at what is
managed services.
So instead of you, businessowner, having to take a week of
your time to sit down andexplain your own business model
(09:33):
to a sales rep, we've handledthat for you.
We've handled the playbooks.
We've handled every singleprocess that a sales rep would
need to know to be successfulwithin a managed service
organization, starting from coldcalling and lead generation to
sales discovery and closing.
Andrew Moore (09:50):
what I think is super cool is as we scaled our
business, we had 40 or 50 peoplein the service delivery team.
I had a couple of leads and wasbusy Being COO, I took on one
marketing person, one salesadmin, and an actual sales
hunter.
And that became 80 percent of mytime.
And that was just at the verybeginning, right?
(10:11):
Then we start layering on newsalespeople.
what I warn folks about isthere's that chicken or the egg
do you hire a sales manager?
Do you hire a rep?
But if you don't have somebodywho's willing to manage a sales
rep, then you have no businesshiring a sales rep, if you're
not going to do it yourself, oryou're not going to hire a
manager to build that programfor you to then hire sales reps
(10:34):
then I don't think you should doit.
You got to have somebody that'slike.
In your business that knows howyour business works and working
with that sales rep on a almostdaily basis.
Carrie Richardson (10:42):
This platform will do fractional CRO for you.
Andrew Moore (10:47):
After we platform, we work with a private equity
group.
We brought in a few companies,from around the country I had
been going hard since thepandemic, I needed to.
Take a step back from clientdelivery and some other things.
And I really needed to catch mybreath.
And what I thought was reallyimportant was I'm in peer groups
and I don't see enough highquality talent on the consulting
(11:12):
side.
That's not to say there's notout there, but to your point,
there's 55.
Thousand MSPs or some ridiculousnumber.
I felt like there was a place toget involved and say, hey, let's
have some one on one do I wantto empire build with this?
Probably not.
I don't know if I want to.
Try to replicate myself 15 timesand try to build some big
consulting firm out of this.
But for the right, for rightnow, I want to get back to
(11:33):
helping people again.
I want to get back to just beingin the day to day helping them
grow their business.
That's exciting to me.
Carrie Richardson (11:38):
I love small businesses.
when we worked for largevendors, we were a line item we
did well for them.
But when we worked for a smallbusiness and helped them land
the biggest client they'd everhad.
And it changed the course oftheir business forever.
To a 1 million or 2 million MSPthat, 6, 000 monthly recurring
(12:01):
client or that 15, 000 monthlyrecurring client is significant
revenue
Andrew Moore (12:08):
So my dad ran his own small business we knew if
the business didn't do well,like he was going to be a shitty
Christmas and, or if we were, ifwe happened to go on a family
vacation, we may stop at aclient.
On the way, because my dad waslike we're hitting by here
anyway.
Like it was just so ingrained ineverything we did as a family
and how important it was to himthat if anything went sideways
with that business, it affectedall of us and all of his
(12:30):
employees.
And it was super important tohim and all of us.
to be in a position with Ryan,where he would give me so much
opportunity to manage hisbusiness on behalf of him his
family and our employees.
it was never lost on me thatthere was a level of trust that
most people don't understandunless you're in small business.
I loved being an MSP and I thinkit's so important and so
privileged for the MSP communityto be out there servicing these
(12:53):
folks.
I want to get back involved withMSPs at that level knowing what
they need and how important itis to have an advisor helps them
through that process.
so they can do the same fortheir clients.
To me, it's cool.
Carrie Richardson (13:04):
My first client was, an MSP out of
Canada.
he'll be at Evolve this year.
He just became a client of oursfor the platform.
So 12 years ago, my first clientis now a client again.
that to me is extraordinarilyflattering,
Andrew Moore (13:20):
The reason I gravitated towards sales and
marketing is I'm creative, so Ilike to create things.
And so for me, like when I wouldbuild environments for our
clients, it was always justabout, it was almost like Legos.
If you've got a mind for detail,you can be an MSP if you've got
a mind for creativity and how tointerface things together.
You can be an MSP if you're apeople person.
You can be an MSP if you're, aserver troll and don't like
(13:44):
people and you wanna hide in aserver room somewhere and be on
the NOC there's all these thingsyou can do in MSP.
I don't know if you've noticedthis.
I don't know how many frustratedmusicians I've met in MSP.
in our last MSP, we had a band.
There were so many of them, Iswear to God, like we had a band
and everybody was like, yeah, Iplay guitar, play drums.
I had a saxophone player.
a flutist.
We did Jethro Tull covers it'scool to find all these different
(14:06):
types of people, whether they'resuper professional, like to
consult or super introvertedthey can all come together
around a common cause, which isone of my favorite things is
that it was when the MSP.
It's terrible, but awesome.
It's like when shit hits the fanand everybody gets together and
they help a client.
And at the end of the day, youdid something awesome.
The client's super excited it'ssuper rewarding.
different types of peopletogether achieve stuff they
(14:27):
didn't think they could It'ssuper fun.
I love it.
Carrie Richardson (14:29):
Who else is starting another MSP now?
Who swore they never would.
Andrew Moore (14:33):
Yeah.
It's crazy.
They get right back in.
it's interesting to see howexcited they get about it again,
because they take all this stuffthey learned and start applying
it, which is really cool towatch.
Carrie Richardson (14:43):
The second time around is, easier.
Andrew Moore (14:45):
I've done this for 20 years.
My dad worked for 20 years.
sold his company for a littleover a million dollars, it put
food on our table.
he wasn't an MSP, I knew weweren't rich, but it doesn't
matter how hard you work, Thatdoesn't necessarily equate to
how much your business is worth.
It's what the market will payfor your business.
Go to where the work is.
know what your numbers need tobe and don't be afraid to make
(15:07):
tough decisions.
whether that's walking away froma sales opportunity, that might
seem like a good idea.
Firing a loud client.
Because they're obnoxious.
Can I ask you a question I wantto know, have you seen with your
clients, a shift since thepandemic where everybody in
service Is I don't care aboutyour feelings.
(15:28):
workload.
SLAs.
contract.
I need this fixed now.
And I'm going to jump the line.
And I'm like, there is little tono patience I feel like anymore,
or maybe now I've just gottenold and I'm like, get off my
lawn, but I feel like in thelast like few years, like
patients for anything servicerelated has just been
eliminated.
people are just.
Irritated all the time.
Is that just me?
Carrie Richardson (15:47):
Ian, after he sold his MSP, refuses to do any
tech work I sold in 2020.
I haven't had to call forsupport for, four years.
I haven't found people beingthat way with us.
Like I haven't found our clientsbeing like, but again, there are
no sales emergencies.
Just set firm boundaries.
(16:08):
when we started we ignored ourfamilies while we built our
businesses, And we've gotdivorces to show for it.
my kids are still speaking tome.
But I was like your dad onsummer vacation.
And so I five more minutes, fivemore minutes, my kids to death
for 10 years We took stock ofwhat we wanted and it helps to
have a little bit of money inthe bank now I can say, this is
what I want my life to looklike.
(16:31):
And I'm not going to work withclients that don't respect what
I want my life to look like.
I don't have my email on myphone anymore.
If I get an email after five itdoesn't get looked at until
tomorrow.
Andrew Moore (16:43):
awesome.
Carrie Richardson (16:43):
Ian's a Paterson StratOp guide, and he
also does life planning.
a strategic plan for your life.
We both went through thatprocess to see what we want the
rest of our lives to look like?
Andrew Moore (16:55):
that's cool.
Carrie Richardson (16:56):
didn't look like taking calls from clients
at 10 o'clock at night.
Andrew Moore (17:01):
That's it.
And that's the thing about MSPit's almost like being a doctor
in that regard.
I'm not saying you're savinglives.
Please don't take that out ofcontext.
I just mean, it's when you gotto really helping people and you
got to really take what you do.
seriously to a point.
Like we used to say it all thetime.
It's we're not curing cancer, Iwanted to make sure people,
didn't get so stressed out withtheir job that they took that
(17:23):
too seriously about listen the,sometimes our problems will be
there tomorrow.
And that balance in MSP has beenreally hard.
And I feel in the last fewyears, it's just that people
have been really focused onmaybe they feel like at least in
business we had a lot ofcatching up to do.
We really need to take advantageof what's going on with the
economy right now.
Hey, Let's go.
Maybe it's just the climatewhere people are frustrated and
(17:44):
don't know where to, Put thatfrustration.
they take it out on the guy onthe phone there's this level of
anxiety that everybody's gotwhen it comes to wanting to get
things knocked out when it comesto it.
But I also think it might justbe because everybody has to be
on all the time.
you're at home, you're working,you're on the road, you're
working right.
Like it.
Everybody is on everywhere thatthey go and they just expect
(18:05):
everything to work flawlessly.
so if you get somebody thatcalls they're like, I can't get
my job done today.
let me see if I can log in andfigure out what's going on.
I'm in a hotel room in Bostonstaying here for a couple of
days working remote.
We don't have documentation onthat.
then everybody gets frustrated.
I was told I could workanywhere.
You can't
Carrie Richardson (18:20):
expectation management is a big, important
part of onboarding that I thinka lot of MSPs just gloss over.
Andrew Moore (18:27):
Yeah.
We used to have a saying Aclient will let you burn down
their house as long as you tellthem when you're going to do it,
how long it's going to take.
Carrie Richardson (18:32):
Yes.
I couldn't have said it bettermyself.
Andrew Moore (18:35):
Have that conversation up front make sure
it's in the contract and youmake sure that you're supporting
it so that when an emergencycomes up, you handle it the
right way.
when they try to circumventthat, you can have a
conversation with we really,we'll do it for you this time,
or we can do it, but it's goingto cost more, or we can't get to
it because, we've got theseother things that are going on.
And this is not what we agreedto, right?
(18:56):
And I think there are so manyentrepreneurs and business
owners feel building trust comeswith saying yes.
not defining what their servicelooks like.
this is what we're going to dofor you.
And this is what you're going todo for us, be patient, follow
the rules, pay us on time.
Carrie Richardson (19:11):
Not be shitty
Andrew Moore (19:12):
Oh God.
Yeah.
I think that level of give andtake, if you're doing it the
right way, setting that examplein the way that you're putting
together your outside marketing,whether that's.
Lunch and warns with existingclients that are good where
you're bringing prospects inright or events or whatever that
looks like we're going out toshows and you're doing speaking
engagements if you're instillingthat into what you're doing and
(19:33):
pulling it through, and buildingyour sales process you can
understand what the client islike.
Throughout this process, thatturns into happier clients that
trust you, allow you to sell newand interesting things as our
industry and business changes,right?
So you're going to have upsellcross all opportunities.
You're going to have low churn.
They're going to bring inreferrals for you.
(19:53):
Your margins are going to stayin line because you built
something that they understandthat they're going to stick to
so that you don't have to like,like how many times have MSPs
got excited because they pulledsix people off of something, to
go fix this thing that theclient dropped in their lap at
the last minute.
They're like, Oh, we bought anew server.
We need to install thisafternoon.
And then you're like, yay, wedid all that.
what you wound up doing waspissing off seven other clients
(20:15):
because you didn't get to theirshit.
So I think that if you do allthese things right back to your
point of just creating a levelof hate expectation management
from the beginning and holdingto it with some flexibility, but
mostly sticking to it.
To me, that's the missing thingmost MSPs don't have.
if you do it that way, You can'thelp but scale it because it's
(20:37):
not dependent on the owner'spromises or the sales guy's
promises or Steve on the desktaking every single call
Carrie Richardson (20:45):
you know how you get the best support?
You marry someone who owns anMSP.
Andrew Moore (20:50):
My wife and I met at computer school, getting our
Microsoft certifications.
And so she has like a full blownMCSE for Microsoft, 2000 active
directory.
15 years ago, she startedfocusing more on like product
management and SAS solutionsand, development and all that.
So she's over there in thatspace now.
I never fully finished my MCSElike she did and she's like the
printer has a problem I'm like,get a new printer.
Carrie Richardson (21:11):
All right.
So this is going to be yourfirst it nation as a vendor.
What are you going to do?
what's it going to be like foryou?
Andrew Moore (21:19):
I was telling friends on my morning walk
normally I go and I get winedand dined and, this year
everybody's all get bent.
Like you don't have any money.
Normally I'll just go and I'lllike, hang out and I'll network
and make memories, but thisyear, my focus is going to be, I
really want, so there's a coupleof different things I really
want to do.
I really want to walk the floorbecause I know it usually once
or twice I have to walk on thefloor.
(21:39):
Like you get a feel for it, butI want to see what's out there,
who's coming up with somethingnew I know AI is the big
hotness, but I want to see whatpeople are doing to actually
implement it in a way that makessense.
And I think that there are someuse cases that are really
interesting to see who's messingwith it.
Carrie Richardson (21:55):
Somehow figure out how to, get Ryan
Lakin.
Blackballed at the bar.
I haven't figured out how to dothat.
My advice for a new vendor inthe channel at IT Nation is go
to breakfast.
Andrew Moore (22:07):
They're doing universal one night.
I don't know what part of thepark
Carrie Richardson (22:10):
never go to that.
Andrew Moore (22:11):
It's actually pretty cool.
they quarantine this section andcall it the superhero section
the one time we went and you getto get on all the rides as much
as you want.
it was super fun.
I love going to see live shows.
I've never seen stone templepilots.
The connect wise thing of Fridaynight.
That's what I heard.
Carrie Richardson (22:25):
I might go to that this year.
My best advice is workbreakfast.
Always get up and go tobreakfast.
The food is never good, but whatI like to do is get I get a cup
of coffee.
And then I like, Oh, is anyonesitting here?
And then I sit down for a minuteand I like, start talking to
people see who they are and whatthey're doing.
if there's nothing interesting Iget up with my coffee and I go
(22:47):
to the next one.
And I wait until I find thetable where I feel like.
I might actually be able to dosome business get a bit of fruit
exchange business cards and eathalf my breakfast at six
different tables.
Andrew Moore (22:58):
cool.
Carrie Richardson (22:58):
Those are the people that came to work not
sleeping through the keynote andthey're they didn't go out late
partying last night they'retrying to figure out how their
businesses work.
they got up on time.
those are the people that I wantto talk to you, the people that
are like actually there toattend sessions, not the Andrew
Moores who drink until two inthe morning.
Andrew Moore (23:18):
that's not me anymore.
Carrie Richardson (23:19):
you have to join me at breakfast.
go hustle
Andrew Moore (23:21):
Yeah, that's true.
Carrie Richardson (23:23):
Yeah, there's an art form from going from like
the question to the pitch.
Yeah, when you're at a meal orround tables in the exhibition
hall, they usually have thoselittle round tables
Andrew Moore (23:34):
I bet I could sit down with 10 of them and they
could give me a quick two minutespiel on how they're running
their business.
I should go walk around.
Carrie Richardson (23:40):
See you at it nation.
Andrew Moore (23:42):
Yes, ma'am.
Carrie Richard (23:44):
Operationalizing trust.
What does it mean?
Andrew Moore (23:48):
When you operationalize trust for a
managed services provider, it'staking what the owner, what the,
the lead engineer, the peoplethat have been working directly
with the clients, what you'redoing is you're taking the
essence of that trust that getsbuilt and instilling it into
every aspect of what you do in ascalable way by taking it all
(24:09):
the way out to your pre salesengagements through your
marketing in the community, Howyou're interacting with other
businesses, how you'representing yourself on LinkedIn,
right?
Being able to say, this is howyou run a business.
giving free advice, pulling thatthrough into the sales process
to be that subject matterexpert, then in your contracts
and how you explain to clients,what your expectations should be
(24:32):
setting boundaries, You buildthat into the sales process and
pull that into operations.
So the client knows what they'regetting the entire road all the
way through execution.
And then what that's going to dois it's going to keep your
margins in line, Becauseexpectations have been set, they
know what they're getting into.
It's going to bring in betterclients because you've been
educating them from thebeginning and they're
interacting with your clientbase they have an idea of what
(24:53):
it means to work with you.
You've built your sales processto demonstrate to them how trust
is earned and how you're goingto operate together.
And so all those things cometogether to lowering churn, not
dropping the client, creating amuch better experience for the
client and having bettermargins.
and then all of that results inbetter EBITDA, right?
So you're going to grow yourbusiness.
(25:13):
You're going to have moreprofitable business and trust is
going to be something thathappens throughout the system.
if you do it that way, you can'thelp, but spread it through your
organization.
it's not just one person doingit, the owner can't let go of
the vine and move on if youoperationalize trust, you put it
into everything so that at everytouch point, you're putting a
system in place that allows theowner to then take what they're
(25:35):
really good at, which isTechnology and trust and all the
things of being a business ownerand instill it into the
business.
As the owner you gotta startletting go and moving on people
can't do it because they can'ttrust that something's getting
done.
But if you look at putting trustinto the way that you're doing
things.
And this isn't like a scam.
You're not trying to trickpeople into trusting you.
What you're trying to do isoperationalize it in such a way
(25:56):
that it becomes scalable.
that's when you make an impactin your community.
And that's what the businessowners want.
Like you can grow a business,but a lot of business owners
like being out there, justmeeting with other business
owners and helping theircommunity out.
And a lot of people got intothis business to help.
You can only help a finitenumber, People, unless you
operationalize the way that youbuild that trust and the way
that you execute on things andgrow that trust moving forward.
(26:19):
And that's what my goal is tohelp MSp owners do that.
Operationalizing trust.
The first show that I ever wentto with Microsoft shows they had
emotional, support animals wherethey would just bring in dogs
and then they would walk around.
They were like, conferencing'shard play with a dog and they
would just have puppies and thenyou would just get to play with
the puppies.
And then they're like, Oh, areyou tired?
Here's a wall of doughnuts.
(26:40):
And you would walk over thereand they would just like a wall
of donuts and we would play withpuppies.
And I was like, this is waybetter.
Carrie Richardson (26:47):
The best conference I ever went to was a
Las Vegas conference put on bythe people that make trade show
booths.
It was like everybody just likeshowing off for each other.
And it was incredible.
It was at one of the largestconference centers all the
companies that make the boothsor create experiences.
(27:09):
one of them was a full 1920sGatsby style speakeasy.
the next one was a fiftiesdiner.
And candy shop, they had actualcandy you'd sit they'd bring you
a malted and you'd sit down withone of the sales reps.
And on the way out, they gaveyou a bag and you filled it up
with candy.
Andrew Moore (27:26):
That's super meta.
reminds me of that scene inAustin Powers where he's we have
a factory that makes miniaturemodels of factories.
Carrie Richardson (27:32):
Thanks for joining us today
Andrew Moore (27:34):
Super fun.
I will see you next week
Carrie Richardson (27:37):
take care.
Andrew Moore (27:37):
Bye.
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