September 27, 2024 • 26 mins
Welcome to Episode One of the Win The Claim Podcast, brought to you by Beach Front Claims! Today’s guest is Daniel Tighe, founder of Tighe P.A., a firm that's taken on some of the biggest insurance companies and won.
Master Public Adjusting Success with the Win The Claim Podcast: Hosted by Mike Gergora, Director of Claims at Beach Front Claims. Gain invaluable insights and expert tips from industry leaders to elevate your skills and win every claim.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to episode one of the win the claim podcast brought to you by Beach front claims.
(00:06):
Today's guest is Daniel Tide, founder of Tide PA, a firm that's taken on some of the biggest
insurance companies in one.
Dan, you want to give yourself a little introduction bio?
Sure.
So, you know, happy to be here.
Obviously, we've got a great relationship, Mike, really nice working with you.
So I appreciate you sharing the opportunity to help spread some information and, you know,
(00:30):
kind of introduce each other's audiences to each other.
And you know, been having some fun doing some good work together.
So that's great.
So those who I haven't had a chance to meet or connect with, I'm a property damage attorney
first and foremost.
Our practice started in Florida, geez, maybe 12 years ago, give or take.
(00:51):
And I was working hail claims in North and Central Florida and just found an underserved
niche where people weren't being helped the way they should.
And we're having wrongfully delayed, denied, defended claims.
So we started kicking butt on those claims years and years ago.
And as we have in Florida, hurricanes started rolling in.
(01:11):
And I was kind of, you know, kind of under reputation as one of the go to guys, not the
go to guy for roofing contractors, general contractors, to get them set up here in Florida,
which is unfortunately a difficult and adversarial market.
So throughout the years just kept building and improving.
And one of the things that anyone who knows me or has had the opportunity to work with
(01:34):
me will tell you, it's always about process and it's always about process improvement.
So you know, our law firm started with Humboldt beginnings with just me and a telephone.
And we've grown and grown and grown.
We did about a quarter billion with B dollars worth of recoveries from Hurricane Irma.
And we have a tallied since then.
(01:56):
But you know, that number significantly increased.
So I joke that, you know, if someone can find a question that I haven't seen before, I'm
happy to buy you a beer.
Nice.
Yeah.
And so for your audience, obviously, I started off in canvassing and door knocking roofing
before I ever became a public adjuster.
(02:16):
So I was down there when A.O.B. was still out in a viable option for roofing companies
and was knocking doors and saw how the roofing claims were getting denied, got public adjusters
involved so they were able to help out the individual policyholder and moved up to sales
manager for the roofing company and then became a public adjuster.
(02:38):
I got tired of seeing, you know, lawful claims denied, delayed, underpaid.
And then I found my niche in what we'll call the high end market.
So second and third homes, commercial buildings and the higher end roofs.
So, you know, high six figure, low seven and eight figure claims.
(02:59):
That's where the most niche in that.
I mean, everybody and their brother who does, you know, either property damage law or, you
know, public adjusting is doing your every day, you know, twenty, thirty thousand dollar
claims for door knocking and roofing and things of that nature.
So we kind of left that niche back in like 2018, 19 when they had four separate hurricanes
(03:22):
that hit the panhandle almost back to back.
And we got out of that niche seeing how it was such a saturated market and how adversarial
was dealing with, you know, like frontline claims, universal property and casualty, big
red state farm who denies everything.
And we started focusing mainly on the companies such as like Chubb, Pure, AIG, Lexington,
(03:44):
Cincinnati Group and a lot of the larger commercial claims and second and third homes and found
that those people were being equally as denied and underpaid as the twenty, thirty thousand
dollar claims and sometimes even more so.
I think our largest gain from Hurricane Ian, we took it from one hundred and twenty seven
thousand up to two point eight million dollars in thirty nine days.
(04:07):
And it's absolutely shocking that that can happen.
So I really appreciate the fact that you found your niche in roofing because that's how I
got started.
And with RoofCon 2024 coming up here at the end of October where you and I will be doing
breakout speaking on the do's and don'ts of insurance roofing and how to win the claim.
We're both can have a very good unique perspective on roofing in the insurance market.
(04:32):
But the death of assignment of benefits in Florida, what do you see as being a viable
option for roofers to still be able to lawfully get paid and have their clients get their
claim paid and not denied?
What are some options for them since assignment of benefits is gone?
Yeah, that's a great question.
And the way you phrased it, too, is the way that I like to look at things.
(04:55):
Right.
As you say, what are your options to accomplish what you're trying to accomplish?
There's not necessarily one best way.
There's not necessarily a silver bullet.
Really what it comes down to is who are you?
What is your organization?
What is your goal?
Obviously, for most people, it's pretty simple that you want to earn the work.
That's how you're compensated.
(05:16):
If you're a roofer, you do all this work up front.
You take on the risk.
You take on certain liabilities.
You're doing all that hard work and you're not compensated until you build that roof
till you get that last check and you clean up all the nails and all that good stuff.
And Mike, I love your background if I can jump back there, too.
(05:36):
Here in Florida, it is.
It's just a tremendously adversarial market.
They're going after roofers who are playing PA, who are trying to adjust these claims.
Doesn't mean that you can't be helpful in the process, but the law is very clear.
I don't think, just so you know, my personal view, I don't think it's fair what they've
(05:57):
done here saying that the contractor is ultimately going to build the roof.
Can't be involved in any way.
Can't assist.
That is such broad language.
I believe it's overbroad.
That being said, I'm a lawyer.
I'm an officer of the court.
We have to follow the law.
If you don't follow the law, you're violating the law, also known as committing a crime.
So we do need to play in the proper sandbox there, but I love your background as a former
(06:23):
roofing contractor.
And when you had that AOB, you could essentially get the assignment from the homeowner and
you could alleviate their concerns.
You could say, hey, Mrs. Homeowner, I've been through this process.
I'm going to build the estimates.
I'm going to build your roof.
Who better than me to shepherd you through this process?
And that worked really fantastically, Mike.
(06:45):
I'm sure you had a ton of great victories that way, right?
Yeah.
I mean, we had, I think in the first 30 days of Ida, Delta, and Ada, the ones that hit
up in the panhandle, we had, I think, like 178 roofs that we were dealing with.
And they were all under assignment of benefits.
(07:06):
And we were able to actually go out there with the field adjusters and show them what
we found.
And we were able, through that assignment, help the individual homeowner who's never
been through the process before, had no idea what their policy stated, to get them the
lawful coverage that they were being denied.
And when the assignment of benefits went away, now you have roofing contractors that are
(07:27):
getting hit up with the Department of Financial Service and the Chief Financial Officer's
office with unlicensed practice of adjusting.
There's three roofers that just got arrested on unlicensed practice of adjusting and Miami
Dade County last week.
I don't know if you saw those cases, but they're bringing the full weight of the state law
enforcement against them.
(07:48):
And I mean, it's funny to see it when they post it on TV, they're showing up and basically,
you know, tactical response with, you know, SWAT guys to go get unlicensed practice of
adjusters.
They're making a show of it.
So the state of Florida has been very clear that any contractor who's engaged in any type
of unlicensed practice of adjusting, they're going after them.
(08:09):
So I think the best option for the roofers, in my opinion now is, and what Beachfront
claims has been doing, is we are working directly with the contractor and the homeowner and
we have a separate agreement that is done between the roofer, Beachfront claims and
the policyholders stating that the policyholder is allowing us and the roofing company is
(08:31):
allowing us to use their number as a whole when we are negotiating the claim.
So instead of the roofing contractor doing just a direction to pay and saying, hey, pay
us if you think you can.
If not, we're going to go after the homeowner.
The homeowner and Beachfront claims and the roofing contractor saying, hey, listen, let's
negotiate this as one whole number.
(08:53):
I'm going to include the roofing estimate dollar for dollar in my sworn proof of loss.
And that's going to be the number that I'm going after.
So if there's interior damage along with the roof, then we're adjusting it as one whole
claim and including the roofing contractors estimate as a general line item, bid item.
And once it's part of the proof of loss, then I'm able to negotiate the entirety of the
(09:17):
claim that way.
And then that basically alleviates us to where the homeowner has given us permission to do
so.
So we're still representing the best interest of the homeowner, which keeps us legal with
DFS.
And it allows the roofing contractor to know that we are still keeping their whole number
and what they need both upfront and supplemental to get the roof done.
(09:42):
And then they're able to recover that from the homeowner once the claim has been settled.
So it gives them a little bit of peace of mind.
And that's some of the things that you and I are going to go over at RoofCon.
For those who don't know, RoofCon 2024 is going to be October 23rd through the 26th,
wrapping up on the 27th.
We're going to be having a breakout session and speaking on the main stage floor for about
(10:06):
an hour.
And we're going to go over the do's and don'ts of insurance roofing.
And there's going to be, from my understanding, roughly 900 roofing contractors that are going
to be at that.
So I am excited about that.
What are your thoughts on the proof of loss and incorporating that and having a separate
contract?
Do you think that is a good thing or do you think there's a better way of going about
(10:27):
it?
Well, first off, I hate to do it, but as a lawyer, I have to start it with it.
It depends, right?
Obviously, I try not to be that guy as much as possible.
But in this case, it comes down to those options.
And what you're presenting is a terrific option where everybody's working together.
(10:49):
And it's not even against the insurance company.
At the end of the day, these insurance companies used to look at it like the homeowners, their
client too, and everyone should be working together.
Everyone should be cooperating to pay the claim fairly to generate the right evidence
and documentation that the adjuster is going to say, the insurance company's just going
to say, well, yeah, here it is.
(11:10):
Yeah, it's a bid.
It's a local licensed contractor.
This is market value range.
We do understand we have some supply and demand factors.
So it may be a little more expensive than I would try to reduce.
And if I was shopping around all day at every different market.
So I think what you're putting together there, what you have put together, if I was a roofing
(11:32):
contractor, that would give me a lot of confidence in working with you versus anyone who's on
Facebook.
Obviously, we're on Meta Instagram Live here.
If you're in these Facebook roofing groups, you get all sorts of bozos from all over the
country thumping their chest about their experience and this and that.
And there's probably as many different ways to do this as many gurus as there are out
(11:59):
there.
So I think what it comes down to is working with someone, building a relationship, building
trust and working together with a process that's repeatable and scalable.
So it's not like a pop quiz on every claim.
So what you're talking about is having an agreement with all of the interested parties
(12:22):
up front that, hey, this is the roofing contractor on the job.
This is who we want to work with.
Well, why wouldn't we execute an agreement up front that's going to protect his or her
interest so that they can put in all that valuable and limited time they're going to
spend with you rather than spending with other clients?
Because again, these are good people who only get paid when that roof is built.
(12:46):
So I think what you've suggested is a great option.
It's a very powerful option.
And what I'll add to that too is we're both here in Florida right now as we're having
this conversation, but we both do work in other markets.
And we both do large losses.
I've got a large loss in South Dakota.
I've got a claim I'm having a call today in Pennsylvania, multi-million dollar claim.
(13:09):
We've got North Carolina, South Carolina.
I've got full offices, Georgia, Tennessee.
We're taking our scaling repeatable processes run by the right people with the right culture.
And we're taking it to different states.
And the reason I'm bringing that up is the rules are going to be different in every state.
And my best suggestion for any roofing contractors, right, and we'll get into this at RoofCon,
(13:31):
which I'm very much looking forward to, is don't believe the hype and pardon my language,
these bullshit artists on Facebook who are showing off the three large losses that I
bet they've been involved with and taking pictures in different angles and say, you
know, like it's very transparent if you've been in this industry for a little while,
(13:53):
what they're trying to do is just create some hype and kind of like trick, I guess, uninitiated
people.
But what I always tell people to do is ask about processes, right?
Is say, okay, well, I understand that you've got a ton of experience.
Well, just like if you got an experience, if you're an MMA fighter and you've got 50
fights, but you lost every one, you got a ton of experience, but you're probably not
(14:14):
a great fighter, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
And I'm glad you brought up a process because your law firm has a very unique and proprietary
process that you guys developed that have allowed you to be as successful as you are.
Do you want to touch briefly on that process, what you call it, and you know, the rough
ins and outs of it?
(14:35):
Absolutely.
This is one of my favorite topics because this is really the corpus of the work that
I've done over the past decade plus, right?
Is in handling all these claims, we can go back to experience.
So I've got the track records, I've got the results, we've got the thousands of satisfied
and happy clients, we've got roofers that I've worked with for a decade plus.
(14:58):
There's a high level of trust.
And when it comes down to his systems and processes, what we've developed over the years
is that we call the Tiger system a little play.
My last name is Ty, and I have some colleagues call me the insurance tiger.
They turn to me with questions.
And it's actually one of the less aggrandized nicknames that I've earned over the years.
(15:22):
I get some of the merchant guys call me the brain, which I think is probably a little
over and above.
But I'll take the Tiger.
So what we call it's the Tiger system.
And what we've done is we've broken down the claim process into five critical components.
And then within each one of those components, you've got sub processes and subtasks.
Now the idea would be, obviously, it's more complicated than making a burrito.
(15:47):
But the idea would be like a Chipotle in terms of the vision.
It doesn't matter who's specifically making your burrito until it gets to the point where
you have secret recipes and that stuff.
And that might be at the trial and litigation stage.
But in terms of investigating a claim, presenting a claim, negotiating a claim, and then obviously
(16:08):
if you have dispute, either appraisal or litigation, and then resolution, those are your five steps.
Now the bad way to do this business is what I see guys doing every day.
And what that is, is they get a claim and they go, oh my gosh, this one's here.
It's in this state and it's got this type of roof and it has interior damage.
Oh my gosh, it's crazy.
(16:30):
That's like the pop quiz method, which means you don't have a system.
You don't have a process.
Now wouldn't a smarter way be to say, okay, we've done thousands of claims.
What are the key check boxes we need to do in our investigation?
Well, we need a policy.
We need photos.
We want video.
We want Matterport, which you do a great job of.
We want estimates.
(16:50):
We want bid item estimates, if it's specialty stuff.
These are all simple questions and you can ask the right questions, get the right answers.
And that's how you solve the problem one time.
Now if you're a smart person and you want to be successful, why would you solve the
problem once, not take the learnings from that problem, build out a quick sketch of
(17:12):
a process so that when that problem confronts you again, you already have a diagram of how
to solve it.
Now let's say you have a diagram and you improve it and you iterate 700 times a year.
Wow, how good are you going to get at this process?
So this is some of the exciting stuff that we'll be able to share with roofing contractors
(17:35):
because again, my processes tend towards disputed claims, right?
Because a PA's process are going to tend towards the investigation, presentation, negotiation.
I have processes for all of this stuff, but what's the roofer's process going to be, right?
In a state like Florida where they're not allowed to assist, aid, negotiate claims,
(17:56):
their processes, it's going to be similar, but their processes are going to be more limited
to the front end of that claim process where they're just aiding in the investigation.
Hey, here's the exact amount or other line item, lump sum estimates.
Here's my photo set.
Here's the communication with the homeowner and homeowner's on board really happy.
(18:18):
In whatever parts of the process you do, the smart thing to do is build your processes
so that you can have a continuous improvement with a growth mindset.
You get really good at this stuff.
Yeah, absolutely.
So I have seen your process firsthand.
Obviously, you've seen the type of claims that I am predominantly handling, which are
(18:42):
mid-level six figure and low seven figure claims, especially with roofs.
And we came up with our own process and I stole it from my time at the Federal Law Enforcement
Training Center.
In my previous life, obviously, I'm retired U.S. Coast Guard.
And when we went through FLETC, the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center, they taught
(19:02):
us a method that's called LEAPS.
And it's listen, emphasize, ask questions, paraphrase, and summarize.
And it's something that we used to use for interrogation and for setting up case files,
whether it's for human trafficking, narcotics, or smuggling operations.
(19:22):
And it was how to accurately draw critical information out of people to have a basic
conversation to where they didn't know that they were being interrogated, but get all
the information we needed out of it.
So I tweaked it a little and I still use LEAPS in my sales and negotiation tactics, one for
networking, two for setting up clients, and three, in the negotiation process with the
(19:48):
insurance company.
And I teach LEAPS because it can be tweaked to almost any part of the home improvement
service, whether you're a restoration company, water mitigation, roofing contractor, general
contractor, because in all reality, the field adjuster doesn't make the final decision or
coverage determinations to desk adjuster.
(20:09):
And if you have a conversation with that desk adjuster and you use LEAPS, listen to what
they're saying.
They're going to tell you exactly what they are and are not able to write for on the initial
go around of the presentation and the documentation review.
They may not say it directly, but they'll be like, hey, listen, we had a roofer come
(20:30):
out, we did a comparative estimate, and we may need an engineer to come out.
I'll let you know.
Well, they just told you everything you need to know right there, that they're not able
to write for the initial coverage.
Either they don't have enough documentation or B, upper management is saying, ah, let's
see where this goes.
And they go into the whole delayed and I defend.
Well, they just told you if you listened exactly what you need to know.
(20:51):
So you go back and you emphasize to them like, hey, listen, here's some more documentation.
Here's a roofing estimate.
Here's our own engineer.
And then you paraphrase and ask your questions and say, hey, does this meet what you need
for further information or amplified information?
Paraphrase the entire conversation, memorialize it in an email so that there's proper documentation
(21:13):
chain so that if it does need to go to an attorney like you, you guys have that entire
thing documented.
And then once it's all paraphrased and documented, then you summarize the conversation, like
we said, with the email documentation.
And I have found that using LEAPS nine times out of 10 is getting my claim settled before
it's ever going to litigation or alternative dispute resolution, just based off of being
(21:36):
able to implement it.
And then obviously being a graduate of the Harvard School of Business Master of Negotiation
class gets into the negotiation tactics that I'm going to go over at RoofCon with you as
well.
So I think LEAPS, along with the Master of Negotiation, has been very successful for
beachfront claims.
And it's helped us win.
(21:58):
We recovered over $30 million from Hurricane Ian alone.
And that was with us handling less than 110 claims.
And I was actually handling about 87 claims on Captiva and Sanibel Island alone, where
we predominantly stayed, and the rest was Fort Myers Beach.
And that was what made it successful for us.
(22:18):
And then the few stragglers that are still out there, obviously, your law firm has been
handling them.
And you see the way that our claims have been set up for documentation.
And that has been with the LEAPS process.
So I think you have found it pretty helpful the way we set up and document our claims.
Yeah, no doubt.
You guys do a great job with that.
And it goes back to systems and processes.
(22:41):
And the one thing that you said that I'll emphasize, which should be very exciting to
any roofers out there, any go and go to RoofCon, is you've built a process and you've built
a reputation for handling these large losses.
And that would get me, if I was a roofer and I could learn something about how to do that,
(23:03):
or get in your space and figure out how to add value to you, that would be super, super
attractive.
So I know there's just a ton of value that you have been and will continue to be adding
for these roofers, especially the ones that are ambitious.
And maybe they're down here working those everyday claims.
And what we use a baseball analogy, right?
They're hitting singles.
(23:23):
And it's great.
The movie guys are on the basis.
Singles gets the bills paid.
Singles gets the bills paid.
But that home road is sexy, man.
And when you hit that grand slam, woo baby, the big contracts coming.
Yeah.
I mean, our largest loss from Hurricane Ian alone was $12 million in recovery from an
initial $287,000 offer.
(23:45):
And that was with Chubb.
So yeah, we predominantly stay in the space of larger loss just because it allows us to
handle less claims so that myself, my other three adjusters, we have in-house fire investigators
that are still active duty firefighters within the local area.
And we have roofers, general contractors, and engineers that we work with for comparative
(24:09):
estimates.
We all stay in that larger loss area.
So it keeps the claim volume at a lower level.
And the quality of service and the white glove service that I give each and every one of
my customers is able to be maintained because I'm not overloading myself or any of my other
adjusters with 40, 50, 60, 80, 100 claims on their desk at a time.
(24:30):
Yeah.
And as we both know, those policies are more complex.
What you're doing is you're comparing the damages to what's covered.
So you've got to work through that process.
In some of these more complicated claims, we're looking at a bunch of different coverages
that if you're just doing roofs, you don't even know they exist.
You don't need to.
(24:51):
Mike, always great chatting with you.
I do apologize.
I have to cut it short.
Absolutely.
We've got to cut it short here.
So RoofCon, October 23rd through the 26th, we're going to be giving more information
out about our breakout speaking session.
We've got Daniel Tai, Mike Gregor, at Beachfront Claims, and Tai Lawford, PA.
(25:14):
Any departing words, Sam?
No, I look forward to doing this again.
I'm certainly happy to jump on and try to add value any way we can.
That's the spirit in which I approach really any of this stuff.
You see me, I'm very active on social media.
I'm trying to do good.
I'm trying to help people and empower contractors and policy owners to get what they're owed.
(25:35):
There's nothing wrong with that.
That's what you're supposed to do.
And it used to be that insurance companies would help you through that process.
At this point, especially here in Florida, it's so adversarial.
We call it the Florida model.
Guess what?
If you're not in Florida, why does it matter?
Because it's coming.
It's absolutely coming.
Florida is the test baby for every other state for insurance law.
(25:57):
So I appreciate you coming on today.
To the rest of the viewers on both sides, please take a look at Win the Claim podcast.
I'm sure you'll see Dan on as a guest star again.
And thanks so much for your time, and I look forward to seeing all of you guys at Rooftop.
Welcome to episode one of the win the claim podcast brought to you by Beach front claims.
(00:06):
Today's guest is Daniel Tide, founder of Tide PA, a firm that's taken on some of the biggest
insurance companies in one.
Dan, you want to give yourself a little introduction bio?
Sure.
So, you know, happy to be here.
Obviously, we've got a great relationship, Mike, really nice working with you.
So I appreciate you sharing the opportunity to help spread some information and, you know,
(00:30):
kind of introduce each other's audiences to each other.
And you know, been having some fun doing some good work together.
So that's great.
So those who I haven't had a chance to meet or connect with, I'm a property damage attorney
first and foremost.
Our practice started in Florida, geez, maybe 12 years ago, give or take.
(00:51):
And I was working hail claims in North and Central Florida and just found an underserved
niche where people weren't being helped the way they should.
And we're having wrongfully delayed, denied, defended claims.
So we started kicking butt on those claims years and years ago.
And as we have in Florida, hurricanes started rolling in.
(01:11):
And I was kind of, you know, kind of under reputation as one of the go to guys, not the
go to guy for roofing contractors, general contractors, to get them set up here in Florida,
which is unfortunately a difficult and adversarial market.
So throughout the years just kept building and improving.
And one of the things that anyone who knows me or has had the opportunity to work with
(01:34):
me will tell you, it's always about process and it's always about process improvement.
So you know, our law firm started with Humboldt beginnings with just me and a telephone.
And we've grown and grown and grown.
We did about a quarter billion with B dollars worth of recoveries from Hurricane Irma.
And we have a tallied since then.
(01:56):
But you know, that number significantly increased.
So I joke that, you know, if someone can find a question that I haven't seen before, I'm
happy to buy you a beer.
Nice.
Yeah.
And so for your audience, obviously, I started off in canvassing and door knocking roofing
before I ever became a public adjuster.
(02:16):
So I was down there when A.O.B. was still out in a viable option for roofing companies
and was knocking doors and saw how the roofing claims were getting denied, got public adjusters
involved so they were able to help out the individual policyholder and moved up to sales
manager for the roofing company and then became a public adjuster.
(02:38):
I got tired of seeing, you know, lawful claims denied, delayed, underpaid.
And then I found my niche in what we'll call the high end market.
So second and third homes, commercial buildings and the higher end roofs.
So, you know, high six figure, low seven and eight figure claims.
(02:59):
That's where the most niche in that.
I mean, everybody and their brother who does, you know, either property damage law or, you
know, public adjusting is doing your every day, you know, twenty, thirty thousand dollar
claims for door knocking and roofing and things of that nature.
So we kind of left that niche back in like 2018, 19 when they had four separate hurricanes
(03:22):
that hit the panhandle almost back to back.
And we got out of that niche seeing how it was such a saturated market and how adversarial
was dealing with, you know, like frontline claims, universal property and casualty, big
red state farm who denies everything.
And we started focusing mainly on the companies such as like Chubb, Pure, AIG, Lexington,
(03:44):
Cincinnati Group and a lot of the larger commercial claims and second and third homes and found
that those people were being equally as denied and underpaid as the twenty, thirty thousand
dollar claims and sometimes even more so.
I think our largest gain from Hurricane Ian, we took it from one hundred and twenty seven
thousand up to two point eight million dollars in thirty nine days.
(04:07):
And it's absolutely shocking that that can happen.
So I really appreciate the fact that you found your niche in roofing because that's how I
got started.
And with RoofCon 2024 coming up here at the end of October where you and I will be doing
breakout speaking on the do's and don'ts of insurance roofing and how to win the claim.
We're both can have a very good unique perspective on roofing in the insurance market.
(04:32):
But the death of assignment of benefits in Florida, what do you see as being a viable
option for roofers to still be able to lawfully get paid and have their clients get their
claim paid and not denied?
What are some options for them since assignment of benefits is gone?
Yeah, that's a great question.
And the way you phrased it, too, is the way that I like to look at things.
(04:55):
Right.
As you say, what are your options to accomplish what you're trying to accomplish?
There's not necessarily one best way.
There's not necessarily a silver bullet.
Really what it comes down to is who are you?
What is your organization?
What is your goal?
Obviously, for most people, it's pretty simple that you want to earn the work.
That's how you're compensated.
(05:16):
If you're a roofer, you do all this work up front.
You take on the risk.
You take on certain liabilities.
You're doing all that hard work and you're not compensated until you build that roof
till you get that last check and you clean up all the nails and all that good stuff.
And Mike, I love your background if I can jump back there, too.
(05:36):
Here in Florida, it is.
It's just a tremendously adversarial market.
They're going after roofers who are playing PA, who are trying to adjust these claims.
Doesn't mean that you can't be helpful in the process, but the law is very clear.
I don't think, just so you know, my personal view, I don't think it's fair what they've
(05:57):
done here saying that the contractor is ultimately going to build the roof.
Can't be involved in any way.
Can't assist.
That is such broad language.
I believe it's overbroad.
That being said, I'm a lawyer.
I'm an officer of the court.
We have to follow the law.
If you don't follow the law, you're violating the law, also known as committing a crime.
So we do need to play in the proper sandbox there, but I love your background as a former
(06:23):
roofing contractor.
And when you had that AOB, you could essentially get the assignment from the homeowner and
you could alleviate their concerns.
You could say, hey, Mrs. Homeowner, I've been through this process.
I'm going to build the estimates.
I'm going to build your roof.
Who better than me to shepherd you through this process?
And that worked really fantastically, Mike.
(06:45):
I'm sure you had a ton of great victories that way, right?
Yeah.
I mean, we had, I think in the first 30 days of Ida, Delta, and Ada, the ones that hit
up in the panhandle, we had, I think, like 178 roofs that we were dealing with.
And they were all under assignment of benefits.
(07:06):
And we were able to actually go out there with the field adjusters and show them what
we found.
And we were able, through that assignment, help the individual homeowner who's never
been through the process before, had no idea what their policy stated, to get them the
lawful coverage that they were being denied.
And when the assignment of benefits went away, now you have roofing contractors that are
(07:27):
getting hit up with the Department of Financial Service and the Chief Financial Officer's
office with unlicensed practice of adjusting.
There's three roofers that just got arrested on unlicensed practice of adjusting and Miami
Dade County last week.
I don't know if you saw those cases, but they're bringing the full weight of the state law
enforcement against them.
(07:48):
And I mean, it's funny to see it when they post it on TV, they're showing up and basically,
you know, tactical response with, you know, SWAT guys to go get unlicensed practice of
adjusters.
They're making a show of it.
So the state of Florida has been very clear that any contractor who's engaged in any type
of unlicensed practice of adjusting, they're going after them.
(08:09):
So I think the best option for the roofers, in my opinion now is, and what Beachfront
claims has been doing, is we are working directly with the contractor and the homeowner and
we have a separate agreement that is done between the roofer, Beachfront claims and
the policyholders stating that the policyholder is allowing us and the roofing company is
(08:31):
allowing us to use their number as a whole when we are negotiating the claim.
So instead of the roofing contractor doing just a direction to pay and saying, hey, pay
us if you think you can.
If not, we're going to go after the homeowner.
The homeowner and Beachfront claims and the roofing contractor saying, hey, listen, let's
negotiate this as one whole number.
(08:53):
I'm going to include the roofing estimate dollar for dollar in my sworn proof of loss.
And that's going to be the number that I'm going after.
So if there's interior damage along with the roof, then we're adjusting it as one whole
claim and including the roofing contractors estimate as a general line item, bid item.
And once it's part of the proof of loss, then I'm able to negotiate the entirety of the
(09:17):
claim that way.
And then that basically alleviates us to where the homeowner has given us permission to do
so.
So we're still representing the best interest of the homeowner, which keeps us legal with
DFS.
And it allows the roofing contractor to know that we are still keeping their whole number
and what they need both upfront and supplemental to get the roof done.
(09:42):
And then they're able to recover that from the homeowner once the claim has been settled.
So it gives them a little bit of peace of mind.
And that's some of the things that you and I are going to go over at RoofCon.
For those who don't know, RoofCon 2024 is going to be October 23rd through the 26th,
wrapping up on the 27th.
We're going to be having a breakout session and speaking on the main stage floor for about
(10:06):
an hour.
And we're going to go over the do's and don'ts of insurance roofing.
And there's going to be, from my understanding, roughly 900 roofing contractors that are going
to be at that.
So I am excited about that.
What are your thoughts on the proof of loss and incorporating that and having a separate
contract?
Do you think that is a good thing or do you think there's a better way of going about
(10:27):
it?
Well, first off, I hate to do it, but as a lawyer, I have to start it with it.
It depends, right?
Obviously, I try not to be that guy as much as possible.
But in this case, it comes down to those options.
And what you're presenting is a terrific option where everybody's working together.
(10:49):
And it's not even against the insurance company.
At the end of the day, these insurance companies used to look at it like the homeowners, their
client too, and everyone should be working together.
Everyone should be cooperating to pay the claim fairly to generate the right evidence
and documentation that the adjuster is going to say, the insurance company's just going
to say, well, yeah, here it is.
(11:10):
Yeah, it's a bid.
It's a local licensed contractor.
This is market value range.
We do understand we have some supply and demand factors.
So it may be a little more expensive than I would try to reduce.
And if I was shopping around all day at every different market.
So I think what you're putting together there, what you have put together, if I was a roofing
(11:32):
contractor, that would give me a lot of confidence in working with you versus anyone who's on
Facebook.
Obviously, we're on Meta Instagram Live here.
If you're in these Facebook roofing groups, you get all sorts of bozos from all over the
country thumping their chest about their experience and this and that.
And there's probably as many different ways to do this as many gurus as there are out
(11:59):
there.
So I think what it comes down to is working with someone, building a relationship, building
trust and working together with a process that's repeatable and scalable.
So it's not like a pop quiz on every claim.
So what you're talking about is having an agreement with all of the interested parties
(12:22):
up front that, hey, this is the roofing contractor on the job.
This is who we want to work with.
Well, why wouldn't we execute an agreement up front that's going to protect his or her
interest so that they can put in all that valuable and limited time they're going to
spend with you rather than spending with other clients?
Because again, these are good people who only get paid when that roof is built.
(12:46):
So I think what you've suggested is a great option.
It's a very powerful option.
And what I'll add to that too is we're both here in Florida right now as we're having
this conversation, but we both do work in other markets.
And we both do large losses.
I've got a large loss in South Dakota.
I've got a claim I'm having a call today in Pennsylvania, multi-million dollar claim.
(13:09):
We've got North Carolina, South Carolina.
I've got full offices, Georgia, Tennessee.
We're taking our scaling repeatable processes run by the right people with the right culture.
And we're taking it to different states.
And the reason I'm bringing that up is the rules are going to be different in every state.
And my best suggestion for any roofing contractors, right, and we'll get into this at RoofCon,
(13:31):
which I'm very much looking forward to, is don't believe the hype and pardon my language,
these bullshit artists on Facebook who are showing off the three large losses that I
bet they've been involved with and taking pictures in different angles and say, you
know, like it's very transparent if you've been in this industry for a little while,
(13:53):
what they're trying to do is just create some hype and kind of like trick, I guess, uninitiated
people.
But what I always tell people to do is ask about processes, right?
Is say, okay, well, I understand that you've got a ton of experience.
Well, just like if you got an experience, if you're an MMA fighter and you've got 50
fights, but you lost every one, you got a ton of experience, but you're probably not
(14:14):
a great fighter, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
And I'm glad you brought up a process because your law firm has a very unique and proprietary
process that you guys developed that have allowed you to be as successful as you are.
Do you want to touch briefly on that process, what you call it, and you know, the rough
ins and outs of it?
(14:35):
Absolutely.
This is one of my favorite topics because this is really the corpus of the work that
I've done over the past decade plus, right?
Is in handling all these claims, we can go back to experience.
So I've got the track records, I've got the results, we've got the thousands of satisfied
and happy clients, we've got roofers that I've worked with for a decade plus.
(14:58):
There's a high level of trust.
And when it comes down to his systems and processes, what we've developed over the years
is that we call the Tiger system a little play.
My last name is Ty, and I have some colleagues call me the insurance tiger.
They turn to me with questions.
And it's actually one of the less aggrandized nicknames that I've earned over the years.
(15:22):
I get some of the merchant guys call me the brain, which I think is probably a little
over and above.
But I'll take the Tiger.
So what we call it's the Tiger system.
And what we've done is we've broken down the claim process into five critical components.
And then within each one of those components, you've got sub processes and subtasks.
Now the idea would be, obviously, it's more complicated than making a burrito.
(15:47):
But the idea would be like a Chipotle in terms of the vision.
It doesn't matter who's specifically making your burrito until it gets to the point where
you have secret recipes and that stuff.
And that might be at the trial and litigation stage.
But in terms of investigating a claim, presenting a claim, negotiating a claim, and then obviously
(16:08):
if you have dispute, either appraisal or litigation, and then resolution, those are your five steps.
Now the bad way to do this business is what I see guys doing every day.
And what that is, is they get a claim and they go, oh my gosh, this one's here.
It's in this state and it's got this type of roof and it has interior damage.
Oh my gosh, it's crazy.
(16:30):
That's like the pop quiz method, which means you don't have a system.
You don't have a process.
Now wouldn't a smarter way be to say, okay, we've done thousands of claims.
What are the key check boxes we need to do in our investigation?
Well, we need a policy.
We need photos.
We want video.
We want Matterport, which you do a great job of.
We want estimates.
(16:50):
We want bid item estimates, if it's specialty stuff.
These are all simple questions and you can ask the right questions, get the right answers.
And that's how you solve the problem one time.
Now if you're a smart person and you want to be successful, why would you solve the
problem once, not take the learnings from that problem, build out a quick sketch of
(17:12):
a process so that when that problem confronts you again, you already have a diagram of how
to solve it.
Now let's say you have a diagram and you improve it and you iterate 700 times a year.
Wow, how good are you going to get at this process?
So this is some of the exciting stuff that we'll be able to share with roofing contractors
(17:35):
because again, my processes tend towards disputed claims, right?
Because a PA's process are going to tend towards the investigation, presentation, negotiation.
I have processes for all of this stuff, but what's the roofer's process going to be, right?
In a state like Florida where they're not allowed to assist, aid, negotiate claims,
(17:56):
their processes, it's going to be similar, but their processes are going to be more limited
to the front end of that claim process where they're just aiding in the investigation.
Hey, here's the exact amount or other line item, lump sum estimates.
Here's my photo set.
Here's the communication with the homeowner and homeowner's on board really happy.
(18:18):
In whatever parts of the process you do, the smart thing to do is build your processes
so that you can have a continuous improvement with a growth mindset.
You get really good at this stuff.
Yeah, absolutely.
So I have seen your process firsthand.
Obviously, you've seen the type of claims that I am predominantly handling, which are
(18:42):
mid-level six figure and low seven figure claims, especially with roofs.
And we came up with our own process and I stole it from my time at the Federal Law Enforcement
Training Center.
In my previous life, obviously, I'm retired U.S. Coast Guard.
And when we went through FLETC, the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center, they taught
(19:02):
us a method that's called LEAPS.
And it's listen, emphasize, ask questions, paraphrase, and summarize.
And it's something that we used to use for interrogation and for setting up case files,
whether it's for human trafficking, narcotics, or smuggling operations.
(19:22):
And it was how to accurately draw critical information out of people to have a basic
conversation to where they didn't know that they were being interrogated, but get all
the information we needed out of it.
So I tweaked it a little and I still use LEAPS in my sales and negotiation tactics, one for
networking, two for setting up clients, and three, in the negotiation process with the
(19:48):
insurance company.
And I teach LEAPS because it can be tweaked to almost any part of the home improvement
service, whether you're a restoration company, water mitigation, roofing contractor, general
contractor, because in all reality, the field adjuster doesn't make the final decision or
coverage determinations to desk adjuster.
(20:09):
And if you have a conversation with that desk adjuster and you use LEAPS, listen to what
they're saying.
They're going to tell you exactly what they are and are not able to write for on the initial
go around of the presentation and the documentation review.
They may not say it directly, but they'll be like, hey, listen, we had a roofer come
(20:30):
out, we did a comparative estimate, and we may need an engineer to come out.
I'll let you know.
Well, they just told you everything you need to know right there, that they're not able
to write for the initial coverage.
Either they don't have enough documentation or B, upper management is saying, ah, let's
see where this goes.
And they go into the whole delayed and I defend.
Well, they just told you if you listened exactly what you need to know.
(20:51):
So you go back and you emphasize to them like, hey, listen, here's some more documentation.
Here's a roofing estimate.
Here's our own engineer.
And then you paraphrase and ask your questions and say, hey, does this meet what you need
for further information or amplified information?
Paraphrase the entire conversation, memorialize it in an email so that there's proper documentation
(21:13):
chain so that if it does need to go to an attorney like you, you guys have that entire
thing documented.
And then once it's all paraphrased and documented, then you summarize the conversation, like
we said, with the email documentation.
And I have found that using LEAPS nine times out of 10 is getting my claim settled before
it's ever going to litigation or alternative dispute resolution, just based off of being
(21:36):
able to implement it.
And then obviously being a graduate of the Harvard School of Business Master of Negotiation
class gets into the negotiation tactics that I'm going to go over at RoofCon with you as
well.
So I think LEAPS, along with the Master of Negotiation, has been very successful for
beachfront claims.
And it's helped us win.
(21:58):
We recovered over $30 million from Hurricane Ian alone.
And that was with us handling less than 110 claims.
And I was actually handling about 87 claims on Captiva and Sanibel Island alone, where
we predominantly stayed, and the rest was Fort Myers Beach.
And that was what made it successful for us.
(22:18):
And then the few stragglers that are still out there, obviously, your law firm has been
handling them.
And you see the way that our claims have been set up for documentation.
And that has been with the LEAPS process.
So I think you have found it pretty helpful the way we set up and document our claims.
Yeah, no doubt.
You guys do a great job with that.
And it goes back to systems and processes.
(22:41):
And the one thing that you said that I'll emphasize, which should be very exciting to
any roofers out there, any go and go to RoofCon, is you've built a process and you've built
a reputation for handling these large losses.
And that would get me, if I was a roofer and I could learn something about how to do that,
(23:03):
or get in your space and figure out how to add value to you, that would be super, super
attractive.
So I know there's just a ton of value that you have been and will continue to be adding
for these roofers, especially the ones that are ambitious.
And maybe they're down here working those everyday claims.
And what we use a baseball analogy, right?
They're hitting singles.
(23:23):
And it's great.
The movie guys are on the basis.
Singles gets the bills paid.
Singles gets the bills paid.
But that home road is sexy, man.
And when you hit that grand slam, woo baby, the big contracts coming.
Yeah.
I mean, our largest loss from Hurricane Ian alone was $12 million in recovery from an
initial $287,000 offer.
(23:45):
And that was with Chubb.
So yeah, we predominantly stay in the space of larger loss just because it allows us to
handle less claims so that myself, my other three adjusters, we have in-house fire investigators
that are still active duty firefighters within the local area.
And we have roofers, general contractors, and engineers that we work with for comparative
(24:09):
estimates.
We all stay in that larger loss area.
So it keeps the claim volume at a lower level.
And the quality of service and the white glove service that I give each and every one of
my customers is able to be maintained because I'm not overloading myself or any of my other
adjusters with 40, 50, 60, 80, 100 claims on their desk at a time.
(24:30):
Yeah.
And as we both know, those policies are more complex.
What you're doing is you're comparing the damages to what's covered.
So you've got to work through that process.
In some of these more complicated claims, we're looking at a bunch of different coverages
that if you're just doing roofs, you don't even know they exist.
You don't need to.
(24:51):
Mike, always great chatting with you.
I do apologize.
I have to cut it short.
Absolutely.
We've got to cut it short here.
So RoofCon, October 23rd through the 26th, we're going to be giving more information
out about our breakout speaking session.
We've got Daniel Tai, Mike Gregor, at Beachfront Claims, and Tai Lawford, PA.
(25:14):
Any departing words, Sam?
No, I look forward to doing this again.
I'm certainly happy to jump on and try to add value any way we can.
That's the spirit in which I approach really any of this stuff.
You see me, I'm very active on social media.
I'm trying to do good.
I'm trying to help people and empower contractors and policy owners to get what they're owed.
(25:35):
There's nothing wrong with that.
That's what you're supposed to do.
And it used to be that insurance companies would help you through that process.
At this point, especially here in Florida, it's so adversarial.
We call it the Florida model.
Guess what?
If you're not in Florida, why does it matter?
Because it's coming.
It's absolutely coming.
Florida is the test baby for every other state for insurance law.
(25:57):
So I appreciate you coming on today.
To the rest of the viewers on both sides, please take a look at Win the Claim podcast.
I'm sure you'll see Dan on as a guest star again.
And thanks so much for your time, and I look forward to seeing all of you guys at Rooftop.
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