March 19, 2024 • 41 mins
Navigating the tightrope between a bustling career and family life can seem like a Herculean task, especially in the high-stakes world of law. Ashala Naidu, the brilliant mind behind Naidu Legal, joins me to unravel the complexities she's faced while steering her all-women law firm and raising a family. Her story, rooted in Saskatoon with branches that extend into the heart of her personal and professional life, offers an insider's perspective on managing a thriving business without losing sight of what's truly important.
In a landscape where every minute counts, Ashala’s evolution from a boutique firm to the helm of Naidu Legal is nothing short of inspiring. Discover how she managed the delicate balance of entrepreneurship and the intricacies of family law during the COVID-19 pandemic—a period that saw an unexpected surge in demand for legal services. With adaptability and innovation at the core, Ashala’s journey spotlights the importance of community involvement and adeptly navigating the entrepreneurial sea, from financial management to the underestimated labyrinth of marketing a legal practice.
The quest for harmony in work and life is universal, and the legal profession's grueling demands make it a noteworthy battleground. Join us as we share our personal strategies for maintaining equilibrium in the chaos, fostering a genuine connection with clients and building a supportive team that feels like family.
Mackenzie Kilshaw Co. offers comprehensive business coaching, and consulting tailored to your needs.
With Mackenzie's award winning entrepreneurial expertise in strategy, leadership, business development, branding, website development, social media management, SEO, sales and customer service training and more, clients receive personalized guidance to drive growth and success.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Shauna Foster (00:06):
Winning is your guide to making it in business.
Join our award-winning host andentrepreneur, Mackenzie Kilshaw
, and special guests in casualconversations that will educate
and inspire you on your businessjourney.
Winning will help you learn thehard lessons the easy way, with
guidance from celebratedentrepreneurs and business
(00:26):
leaders.
It's fun, it's informative,it's winning.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (00:30):
Hello, welcome to Winning.
I am your host, MackenzieKilshaw, and today's guest is
Ashala Naidu.
Hi, , how are you?
Hi, I'm good.
Thanks, how are you?
Really good, I'm so happy tohave you on.
It's going to be fun.
Ashala Naidu (00:44):
I'm looking forward to it.
I feel a little bit nervousbecause, like we were saying
before, I've never done Ihaven't done very many podcasts,
but you've assured me that it'sgoing to be very conversational
, so I'm looking forward to it.
Thanks for inviting me.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (00:56):
No, you know what.
Everyone, everyone that comeson, is like I'm so nervous
because I don't what if I, youknow, like don't say the right
thing.
But really it's your story andI'm excited to chat today a
little bit more about havingwomen in the workplace, your
lawyer.
So we're going to.
We're going to have a good time.
No need to be nervous at all.
If you don't know , she's thefounder and owner of Naidu Legal
(01:21):
, a boutique law firm located inSaskatoon.
She practices family law, butthe firm also offers real estate
wills, states, corporate andcivil litigation.
She opened in 2019 and she has13 women from all different,
diverse backgrounds andexperiences, which is really
cool to have an office full ofwomen.
I love that.
(01:41):
So, , do you want to tell theaudience a little bit more about
yourself and who you are?
Ashala Naidu (01:49):
Yeah, sure.
So, like you said, Mackenzie,my name is Naidu.
I live in Saskatoon,Saskatchewan.
This is my home.
I've lived here since I wasborn.
I do practice law full time.
I mostly a family law lawyer.
My outside interests, though,that's just.
You know, my career andprofession is a very small part
(02:12):
of the person who I am.
So I'm a wife.
My husband, Depesh, was alsoborn in Saskatoon.
We have two children, Ava, whois 14, and Dev, who is six.
We spend a lot of time infamily, you know, running the
kids around.
There are various activities.
Ava's dance very competitively,so our family is very involved
(02:35):
in the dance community.
Our little guy, Dev, is, youknow, in activities as well.
They both go to school fulltime.
So you know we live a very busylifestyle.
When I have a little bit ofdowntime, I have a lot of
outside interests as well.
I like to travel with my familyand friends.
I also really enjoy running.
(02:55):
So those are two things I'mpretty into slowly getting more
into a Peloton as well, which iskind of switching things up.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (03:03):
Oh, you know what I've never done?
Peloton.
But I feel like I need to getinto it because everybody, like
I, have so many friends thathave the bikes or they do the
running and love it.
So that's a good suggestionthat you didn't really give, but
I'm taking it.
Ashala Naidu (03:17):
Yeah, it's fun.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (03:19):
Yeah.
So I think when people hearthat your career is a lawyer,
they automatically think youwork a lot, that you're always
at the office or take work home,but clearly you have a busy
family life also.
I guess.
First of all, how do youbalance all of that?
(03:40):
Let's start there.
Ashala Naidu (03:44):
It's a really good question.
So I'm used to kind of beingaccustomed to being a really
busy person.
I've worked.
I often talk about myexperiences in working, in
entrepreneurship.
So I actually, the day that Iturned 16, I started to work.
So a lot of people from myprevious life know me as the
(04:05):
Rogers Video Girl.
I was also a liquor store girlfor a long time.
So I worked, you know, allthrough later high school as
soon as I could have a job.
I've had one and, honestly,working from a young age and
working as much as I always haveworked really taught me really
good time management skills.
So you know, through myuniversity education I was often
(04:29):
gainfully employed as well.
I haven't taken a mat leave.
I've been.
You know, I was student with ourfirst and then with Dev, I was
a practicing lawyer by that time.
So I feel like I really hadalready established the
organizational skills that Ineeded to be able to balance a
lot of different things.
Also, I think it goes withoutsaying, but I've had a
(04:52):
tremendous amount of support inmy life.
You know my parents are very,very supportive, my siblings, my
husband obviously, so that wecan kind of arrange to do it all
and also I'm very supportive inlaws as well, who help out a
lot with the kids when thingsget, you know, really, really
busy and we have to wear a lotof different hats.
(05:13):
So well supported.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (05:15):
Yeah, that support system goes a long way
because when you do have otherpeople you can rely on, that's
your helps, and I'm sure thesame in your business.
I'm sure there's people withinyour business that you can
delegate or can help you withthings too.
Ashala Naidu (05:29):
Right, oh yeah, that's totally true.
We have, like we have anawesome team at work here at
Naidu Legal.
So, like you had said, we're ateam of 13 women from all
different areas of life, sothere's four of us who are
lawyers in the office, and thenwe have support staff at the
office, experience paralegalsand legal assistance students,
(05:51):
and we also have a full timeoffice manager who helps me keep
organized, you know, with booksand the financial piece of the
business.
So you know it's hugely helpful.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (06:00):
Yeah, that's awesome, did you always?
I mean, you're kind of a you're, you have a I'll call it a
double career, because you're alawyer, but you're also an
entrepreneur and a smallbusiness owner.
So did you always want to be alawyer, or how did that kind of
start with your career?
Ashala Naidu (06:19):
Yeah, you know I chose a career path in early
university.
So you know, I, my mom, is alawyer as well.
We practice some together atNaidu Legal, so she has 22 years
of experience.
So, growing up she was also.
You know, I think that shefinished her law degree when I
was in grade nine.
(06:41):
I'm pretty sure it was herarticling years.
So you know, we grew up beingvery, very exposed to having
busy parents and going to workwith them.
So I knew that.
You know, I'm a people person.
I really like people andworking with people and I kind
of learned, you know, early onthat I thought that, you know, a
career in law was what I wasgoing to really, really enjoy
(07:02):
doing, because I had a reallystrong role model, which is our
mom, who I saw practicing law,and I just thought that it was a
really, you know, interestingand unique career and that was
the career path that I kind offollowed.
So I found a niche pretty early.
In practice.
All practicing lawyers have toarticle for one year before we
(07:23):
start practicing law.
So you know it was during myarticling year that I really
started to enjoy family law.
So you know I like to work withthe clients.
I found that the clients liketo work with me.
I like to hear their stories, Ilike to get to know them.
So I really fell into it prettyeasily and spent the first four
(07:44):
years of my career working atanother small boutique law firm
where I just learned a whole lotabout, you know, practice
management skills and dealingwith different clientele and
even sometimes dealing withdifficult clientele, and it's
just, you know, been reallyreally rewarding experience that
I really found what I enjoy inmy niche and have kind of run
(08:05):
with it.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (08:05):
So yeah, that's awesome.
I love how you said difficultclientele, because I don't think
it matters what business youhave, you're always going to
have someone difficult and thoseare really skills you learn
with experience.
I hate to say it, but the morepeople you deal with, the more
that you are able to work withpeople that are difficult,
(08:26):
because being a lawyer,especially when you're dealing
with family law, I'm sure a lotof those clients of yours and
cases are not easy, right.
They're difficult and emotionaland all sorts of things.
Ashala Naidu (08:41):
That's exactly it.
Like, a lot of the cases that Ideal with are really difficult
cases.
They're emotional cases and Ioften, you know, I compare I
often compare myself to meetingyou know somebody on literally
the worst day of their life,right, like, a lot of the time
when people come to my office,they're really, really stressed,
they're going throughtremendous life transition and,
(09:02):
you know, I'm kind of the firststop for what should I do next
and what are my options and whatis my life going to look like,
right?
So I feel like I have goodskills in working with people
who are going through trauma andwho are going through, you know
, emotionally charged situationsand I could help them, you know
, get through it with my legalknowledge, as well as just my
(09:24):
ability to talk to people andkeep them calm and listen.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (09:29):
I think I'm a good listener, so, yeah, yeah,
all skills that you learnedalong the way, yeah, probably,
yeah, probably, from articling.
And then it's experience, right, which is?
I don't think anything canreally substitute for experience
, right?
It just helps us so much andI'm sure every day you become a
(09:49):
better lawyer because you havethis experience with different
people.
I like to think so yeah, no, Iagree.
Okay.
So you worked at another firmfor four years.
How did you decide okay, I wantto do this on my own, I want to
have my own firm.
How did that
Ashala Naidu (10:08):
Well, you know it was a tough decision.
I practiced, like I said, atanother boutique law firm.
I had wonderful mentorship frommy previous employer.
It was a wonderful experienceand I learned a whole heck of a
lot when it came to the practiceof law.
And just, he was really goodwith working with clients.
So, you know, his clientsadored him and I saw how he
(10:31):
worked so well with people.
And you know, I guess my journeyinto doing things on my own was
just kind of an interest inentrepreneurship and wanting to
do things a little bitdifferently.
So, you know, some people whohave been practicing law for
quite a long time are not reallyfully implementing things like
technology or best practicesinto practice.
(10:53):
And I just found that, you know, I was kind of trying to create
better efficiencies and dothings a little bit differently
and market myself and myservices a little bit
differently.
And I felt that, you know, Ihad a really good foundation of
clientele and people who wouldsupport me and who would support
my new practice.
(11:13):
At the time that, you know, wegot into our first space, which
was a very small space, I feltthat the risk you know I'm not
I'm a pretty risk adverse person.
So I don't think, you know, I'mhuge risks and at the time that
you know we started thepractice, it was just myself and
a paralegal and we took on avery, very small space and I
(11:35):
felt that you know, it waspretty low risk to be able to
start things up and you know,see how things would go, and
just kind of practice on my own.
Dev, our younger son at thetime was one when I had gone out
on my own as well.
So I was kind of looking for alittle bit better work life
balance.
I guess too, when you're theboss you just kind of do things
(11:55):
your own way, right?
Mackenzie Kilshaw (11:56):
And that was yeah for sure.
Yeah, that flexibility is partof why being an entrepreneur is
so amazing.
Ashala Naidu (12:02):
That's right.
That's right, I was looking forthat.
So that's you know what wedecided to do and have it look
back.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (12:08):
Okay, so it's you and a paralegal.
I agree that small space issuch.
Starting small is such a greatidea because, okay, you know,
you basically have to makeenough living for you, pay your
rent, pay your paralegal we'regood, right.
So how do you get from there tohaving 13 women in your office?
Ashala Naidu (12:28):
It happened really organically.
So I mean it really.
You know we were in operations.
I guess we opened the firm inJuly of 2019.
So it's coming up on five yearsnow.
You know, the first six monthsof practice, you know were great
.
By December of that year I wasalready looking into hiring an
(12:49):
associate because there was justtoo much workflow for me to
handle on my own.
So I needed somebody else toprovide that you know, legal
relief for me because it wasjust, you know, really too much.
And then COVID happened.
So in March I guess it was theCOVID, that thing, right.
So yeah.
(13:09):
In March of 2020, you know, theworld kind of shut down and that
included legal practices, ish.
At that time, you know, we neveractually shut our doors, nor
did we have to shut our doorsbecause COVID, you know, very
unfortunately for the peoplethat I serve but separations and
(13:30):
divorces and people buying andselling homes and wills and
estate planning, you know, atlike quadrupled in size.
So we found, you know, duringthat period of time, you know,
we were trying to figure out howto do things differently and to
be nimble with, you know, ourcompliment of people getting
sick, preparing, embracingmyself for the possibility of
(13:52):
having to transition thepractice into the basement of my
home, like that's what I was,with three people right and
trying to figure out how is thisreally going to work in the
event that things actually doshut down.
But fortunately, we remainsuper, super busy during that
period of time and weather thestorms.
So by the summer of that kindof COVID year, we were so busy
(14:14):
that we were already goingthrough, you know, further
hiring for people and trying tofind, you know, more people to
join the firm and it just kindof took off from there.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (14:24):
Yeah, it's crazy, but, like you said, it
seems like during that COVIDyear, that 2020, March of 2020
on I don't know but people werehaving babies or getting
divorced or buying a differenthouse.
I think, all of a sudden, youhad to work from home.
Your kids are there, you're allthere and you're like, oh man,
we need a bigger, we need abigger home, or right.
(14:46):
So I can imagine for you thatwas a crazy time.
Ashala Naidu (14:51):
It was a really crazy time.
It was really crazy.
Yeah, we had some in our first,in our first space.
The first space that I rentedwas downtown on 3rd Avenue South
and it was a little bit of aco-working space, so there was a
bunch of different businesseswho were kind of on the floor
there.
We had to figure out somecreative ways to serve our
clients for a little while.
(15:12):
So you know, I was often Iwasn't able to meet clients in
the office for a short period oftime, so we were doing a lot of
like printing and running downand like finding a bench or
keeping people in their cars tosign documentation.
It was crazy.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (15:25):
Yeah, but it was a crazy time and you kind of
had to do what you had to do,right, because you still need it
.
If someone's selling their homeand there's a possession date
or a closing date, you stillneed to sign those papers on
that date.
Ashala Naidu (15:38):
That's right.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (15:39):
Yeah, that's awesome.
I mean just, it doesn't matterwhat you were.
Once again, law practice mewith the clothing store at that
time, people with restaurants,whatever you just did what you
had to do to get through, that'sright and yeah, and for you
then you face growth kind of inthat time as well.
Yeah, we did.
Yeah, that's fantastic.
(16:00):
So obviously you have to lookfor a new space then, as you're
hiring more people and so youhave all women in your office,
which I absolutely love,obviously, being a woman.
But Was that accidental or isthat kind of a purposeful thing
that you did?
Ashala Naidu (16:19):
It's, honestly, it's been kind of both.
We've had men who have workedfor the office before, so it
hasn't always been a femalecompliment.
But, like I said before, wehave this just really awesome
team of women who work here andit works so well for us, like
we're honestly it's such a goodteam that's here.
We're like a little family.
Everybody gets along so wellhere and I just feel like it's
(16:42):
really it's just a good fit foreverybody.
To be honest with you, like Iwouldn't consider myself to be
like a, a feminist or purposelytrying not to hire men, and I
should say as well, like we havea huge clientele of men as well
.
Right, oh for sure, onlyrepresent women.
It's men as well.
But you know, as far as likethe people who work here, I
(17:03):
think because I'm mostly incharge of of recruitment at the
office, I am obviously lookingfor a certain type of
personality, with people,obviously experience as well.
So I've found that you know, Ido personally work best with
women.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (17:18):
So yeah, well , and I think, yeah, when you
have your, when you have abusiness that fit, honestly, I
think that fit, so the personfits into your culture and gets
along with people and, like yousay, you're a family, like
you're a team, you're not justco-workers.
I think that is often moreimportant.
(17:41):
A lot of skills you can teach,right, yeah, but you can't teach
that fit.
So that is such an importantthing.
Ashala Naidu (17:49):
It really is, and it's not only like an important
fit for me, but, like the peoplewho are here, it's a really
important fit for them as well.
Right, it's like yeah, I'd liketo think that we're a work
environment that really supportswork-life balance.
Like you know, people you knowhave children, they've grandkids
, people have different thingsgoing on, you know houses to
look after.
(18:09):
So I like to think that we'rean environment that really
supports people's out of workactivities and lifestyles.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (18:16):
Yeah, I love that.
Is there specific things thatyou do to ensure that they have
that balance, or what's kind ofyour philosophy on that?
Ashala Naidu (18:25):
Well, my philosophy on that, which I've
always you know, kind of it'salways been close to my heart
from the time that I waspracticing At my previous firm
is that it's always family first.
So I mean, we're kind of in aunique situation because I
practice with my mom and mysister.
So, yeah, part of part of thatis, you know, kind of family is
(18:45):
always first.
Luckily, we don't have anymajor things as a family that
have required us to, you know,be out of office to address.
But everybody, you know,whether it is spending time with
children, grandparents, youknow, aunts and uncles, the
people who are important toeverybody who's here, that's
just something that's reallyimportant to me.
So I like to make sure thateveryone knows that, like, it's
(19:07):
always family first.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (19:09):
I love that, I'm the same.
I'm the same like work isimportant and work has to get
done and especially when youhave them employees, they're
getting paid for doing a serviceor whatever.
It is right, but at the end ofthe day, nothing replaces your
family, mm-hmm.
And I don't know if you foundthis, but I found that when
there is that better balance andpeople were, you know, when I
(19:32):
my store, if somebody said, oh,I'm supposed to work on next
Saturday, but it's my sister'sbirthday, like could I to me,
ensuring that they had that timewith their family and saying,
yes, what's a shift or we'll,you know, figure it out.
Whatever they were happier anda happier employee actually is
better for me.
Yeah, I agree, yeah, yeah.
They're happier, they're moreproductive, they want to do
(19:54):
things for you, not just becauseit's their job, but because
they appreciate that right.
Ashala Naidu (19:59):
That's right.
Yeah, that's exactly it.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (20:01):
Yeah, it's true and that's not why we do it
right, but it's a really nicespin-off of treating your staff
really well.
When you treat them well, theytreat you well back, right.
Ashala Naidu (20:12):
Yeah, I think so too.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (20:13):
Yeah, awesome , okay.
So I think people listening aregonna be like an office full of
women is fantastic, but also,oh my gosh, what is the dynamic
in an office full of women?
So let's chat on that a littlebit.
Ashala Naidu (20:30):
Honestly, I think we have.
We haven't had a lot of a lotof problems here with the women,
you know.
Again, I know that there's alot of conversation right now
kind of around entrepreneurshipand what it means to be the
right fit, but like the rightfit isn't only coming from me,
right, like a lot of the time,when it comes to transition or
trying to find the right fit,people are often you know,
(20:52):
employees are often looking forthe right fit for them too, and
what type of work environmentfits in with their you know
family and their friends andjust their lifestyle.
So, you know, lots of peoplewould think that we would have a
whole heck of a lot of dramahere at Naidu Legal, and I'd be
lying if I said that therehasn't been any drama, because
(21:12):
there's been some drama.
But anywhere.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (21:15):
There's drama anywhere, whether you've got
men or women.
Ashala Naidu (21:18):
Right, that's right.
So I think that's just par forthe course and any work
environment like you're gonna.
You know you're gonna have alittle bit of drama and you have
to figure out best practices onhow to support and encourage,
you know, your colleaguesthrough that.
I found that, you know, as wegrow and as I've had the
opportunity to have an officemanager at the office in
(21:40):
particular, I'm able to offloadlike the HR and the management
off of myself on to Naidu Legaland I I feel so much happier
like not having to deal withlike HR functions as well as
some of that like managementstuff that I'm just not, I just
don't love.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (21:59):
Yeah, I was gonna ask you how do you deal
with that, because you're also apracticing lawyer.
So how do you deal with anoffice conflict, maybe, or not
just that, but just how do youdeal with working with 13 people
?
But your answer is an officemanager, which is fantastic.
Ashala Naidu (22:17):
It is and like I mean obviously because I'm the
owner of the firm, I obviouslydo involve myself in a lot of
and like everything managerial.
But just looking after kind ofa lot of the day to day or week
to week, like it's not likethere's always HR stuff going on
, but just having somebody elsewho can address that, is just
hugely helpful for me.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (22:37):
So for sure, and I mean in all reality, you
are the owner, but your time isbetter spent with your clients
or working under clients.
Then it is planning the officeparty, really in all reality.
Right, that's exactly it.
Yeah, are there other thingstoo that you maybe did when you
started and now you delegate, orI know you talked to the
(23:00):
beginning about efficiencies.
So what else have you donewhere maybe when you first
started, you did, but now youhave someone else take care of?
Ashala Naidu (23:10):
A lot of things.
There's a lot of things.
I mean.
I found one thing we've kind oftransitioned between, when
people call the office, havingan automated person who's
answering versus having anactual live person.
So I found that, like a lot ofthe time when people are
contacting I do legal, they'reoften calling to work with me.
(23:31):
So I find that something thatyou know I've transitioned to in
practice is really making surethat everybody who calls for me
at the office has a really goodexperience the first time that
they contact us, and usuallythat involves like direct
communication with me and I'mvery expressed with clients.
You know if I have to delegatea file to an associate at the
(23:52):
office or if I'm able to becauseof capacity to work with them.
The bookkeeping functions also.
We've been very I've been veryfortunate in practice to always
have a bookkeeper.
We've had a couple of differentbookkeepers I have our office
manager now looks after thebooks for the firm, which is
hugely helpful for me because myinterest level is like very,
(24:16):
very low and I also don't haveany sort of experience in like
business management, like I'mnot a commerce girl.
Hey, guess what?
I have a commerce degree and I,when I opened my business, I
was like I have a commercedegree, I can do the books.
How hard can this be?
And I did it for I'm going tosay two months and I very
(24:39):
quickly realized, wow, I do notknow what I'm doing commerce
degree or not and I'm spendingfor me.
It was the time I was spendingso much time on a task that
didn't bring me revenue, thatdidn't let me do anything else
and I wasn't good at it, so itwas kind of a triple bad, I'd
(25:01):
say.
But something like that, likegetting someone else and nice
for you, you can have that inyour office.
If you don't have someone inthe office, then it's something
that you can just pay someone todo.
But things like your books canreally, I mean, freeze up time
and you know that they're doneproperly, because it's also
something that can get you intoproblems down the line if it's
(25:22):
not done correctly.
That's exactly right.
And I've had, you know, I'vetalked, I've had the opportunity
to, you know, have discussionswith a lot of female
entrepreneurs actually over theyears, and that's something that
I notice a lot of femaleentrepreneurs say, like male
entrepreneurs, not, I haven'thad as much experience, I guess,
talking to a lot of maleentrepreneurs, but the females
(25:43):
often, you know, are saying tome, like you know, having a
bookkeeper has just been soinvaluable and, you know, just
having to do all of the books onmy own is just not my skill set
.
And I think that's me like Itried my best to be involved in
the process of the business, butit's not my skill set, like I
will be honest, like I didn'tknow, like what a source
(26:05):
deduction was.
I did not know that.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (26:09):
But how would you?
How would you?
Because you've never had todeal with it before.
Ashala Naidu (26:12):
Exactly, you have to own it right exactly.
So you know, I hear I've hadother conversations with people
who were like, oh, like I didn'trealize that you had to like
have like additional insurancethrough workers compensation and
stuff like that, and they'relike.
I didn't even know what that is.
I didn't know.
No one told me right.
So yeah, it's like these things, just to have somebody else to
(26:32):
like actually help you throughthat process is so helpful.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (26:36):
It's true, and that's part of why you have
there's other people that haveprofessions that are in these
areas.
Right, yeah, I want to talkabout marketing a little bit,
because I know that you kind ofhad said that before you started
your own, you wanted to marketyourself a little bit
differently.
So how did that like?
How has that been, and do youdo your own marketing, or is
(26:57):
that also something that youhave someone help you with?
Ashala Naidu (27:00):
I do not personally look after the
marketing for the firm.
We work with a number ofdifferent people to help us with
our marketing, but themarketing is actually for the
most part the not the designpart.
But the actual pushing outcontent is mostly handled by my
husband.
Depesh, actually so nice yeah.
So he's also an entrepreneur.
(27:21):
He knows what he's doingMarketing and all of the
different things that we do,from the you know, design to
actually getting the content outthere to try in different
forums.
I mean it's, it doesn't likethe reason why we do it is for
brand awareness, right.
So it's like we don't reallyconvert on a whole bunch of
(27:43):
clientele by doing the thingsthat we do.
But I do like to be involved inthe community and I like for
Naidu Legal to be, you know, outthere in the community.
So the marketing that we do,it's, you know, it's rewarding,
it's fun.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (27:57):
Yeah, exactly , and I think, too, a lot of
people kind of forget they thinklaw firm will what you have to
do for marketing.
You're not quote unquote,selling anything, that's right.
But, like you said, you wantpeople to know who you are,
because if I am buying a housenext week, I want to be able to
phone you and say, because I sawyour social media post or your
(28:20):
billboard or your whatever itwas, and say, oh, I know
somebody that does that.
Right, I know you've got lotsof events because I've seen you
lots of events, but it's like,oh, I know somebody that does
that.
And then they pick up the phoneand they call you.
Ashala Naidu (28:33):
That's right.
Yeah, yeah, it's very timeconsuming, though.
Like I mean any sort of designthat we do, from you know,
getting the design done, toactually getting that ad or
whatever it is the content doneup to, like proofing it, it's
very time consuming.
So that was really lost on me.
Yeah, we have a marketingbackground.
It's like it's awesome, becauseI just I can't believe you know
(28:56):
how time consuming it actuallyis to do that and think up that
content.
Yeah, I know.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (29:01):
And we I think we forget or maybe not
even forget, don't realize, Ithink is just really what it is,
especially now in the world ofsocial media, of Facebook and
Instagram and Tik Tok and allthreads and acts and all the
things, right.
We don't realize or think thatthere are people that are
(29:23):
content creators, that that's,that's their job.
They just make the content,that's their, that's their
career, that's right.
And you forget that a lot of us, as entrepreneurs, like I, can
do it myself, but you don'trealize what a time socket is
until you're actually in it,right?
And that's such a good point youmade.
Ashala Naidu (29:41):
Yeah, that's right .
It's such a you know, I I likeit.
Like I love good branding andgood marketing, like I think
it's cool when I see peopledoing like cool things or having
like cool awareness for theirbusiness.
I just like it all.
But actually like taking thetime to think up that content
like I'm I'm not that clever, Ican't do it.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (30:00):
I know, and it's time consuming because to
make, especially now in theworld of like reels on Instagram
and things like that, it's notjust posting a photo anymore,
it's having your logo on it andhaving to edit things and add
music and add a caption andcreate the, the actual caption,
part of the wording thatprovides value to your clients.
Like, there's so many thingsnow.
(30:22):
It's not just here.
We are a photo of you, right,call us if you need us, sort of
thing.
It's so much more goes into itnow than just that.
That's right.
Yeah, it's crazy.
It's a whole, well billiondollar industry.
Now is social media.
So yeah, it's a crazy time.
Let's talk about challenges alittle bit.
(30:42):
We kind of talked about allwomen.
I know that you've got a reallygreat, really great group there
.
It's your family fit.
But what are some challengesyou face?
Maybe it is with having a groupof women or just generally in
your business that have beentough.
Ashala Naidu (31:01):
I think you know the biggest thing for me has
been balance in my life.
So I find you know work isalways busy, right, and that
goes for all of us.
It doesn't matter what careeryou're in.
Work could be really, reallybusy.
I have good supports and I havegood set up at home, like I
have the ability to work fromhome pretty well.
(31:23):
But I'm trying to just kind offigure out that right balance
between, you know, work andbeing fully present, because I
feel like my presence.
You know, especially duringfamily time and stuff like that,
I'm always a little bitdistracted, but I feel, you know
I do, I do my best to do it alland you know, spend lots of
time with my kids and I do spendlots of time with with my kids,
(31:43):
but it's always it feels likeit's kind of always like my mind
sometimes could be somewhereelse if I'm really busy.
So figuring out that balanceand what works best for me, I
feel is something that's been anongoing challenge and I don't
know if I have the answer forthat quite yet.
I tell, I tell students, youknow this is, this is a hard
career and it's a.
(32:03):
It's a busy career For me.
I find, you know, being alawyer, I could work literally
24 hours a day if I wanted to.
I have that much work thatalways needs to be addressed.
I use the tele.
I get asked this question when Italk, you know, at the college
and stuff like that.
Like what, what do you do forwork, life balance?
And I used to always say thatbetween five and eight o'clock I
(32:25):
would have like a dead periodwhere, like, I wouldn't check my
phone, I wouldn't like check myemail, I wouldn't go on to my
computer, I would just like donothing.
But I get more team membershere, people sort of calling me
out.
They're like you don't do that,you're like wait a minute.
You say you do it.
Yeah, they're like stop tellingthe students that you do that,
you don't do that.
So I like to think that I dothings like that, yeah.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (32:50):
You know what , though?
I've done that too, and I'mkind of the same as you.
I, to me, like balance.
It's never like a scale where,like, both sides are equal is
what I find.
I find that sometimes, like,the workload is heavy and that's
where I'm okay, like today andtomorrow, I literally have to
just sit at my desk and do asmuch as I can, because then the
(33:11):
next day we're going to abaseball tournament or something
and then I'm not gonna reallywork at all.
So right, I think it's not thatlike even scale.
It's like one day work is heavyand one day life is heavy, and
that's just kind of how it is.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'vealso tried to do what you did
and turn off the phone or notlook at it, but I also and
(33:36):
probably personality, I don'tknow about you, but I almost
then had a little bit of anxiety, maybe when I picked up the
phone, because it was like oh mygod, now I have to reply to 10
different you know phone call,text, email, whatever it is when
.
If I just would have done oneby one, it would have been a
minute here, a minute there.
Now I have to spend an hourdoing it.
Ashala Naidu (33:56):
That's right.
I find the same thing.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (33:58):
Yeah, yeah, one thing I did do that I talked
about before, is emails.
I actually turned my emailnotification off on my phone,
mm-hmm.
So I still get emails comethrough, but I don't hear a ding
or get a vibrator or whatever.
And I found that that's reallyhelpful, because then I just say
, okay, you know, every day camenow I'm checking it, and then
(34:21):
I'm checking it again whenever,and that's the times I deal with
it, and then I don't look at itagain till tomorrow.
Yeah, and that seems to havehelped.
Ashala Naidu (34:28):
Yeah, that's a good that's actually good advice
, just to you know, not bepresent with the email, because
that's like my number onefanatic.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (34:37):
Yeah, I know, and I think the thing is it's
really easy to be like I'll justcheck it quick and 25 minutes
later You're still on there,right?
Ashala Naidu (34:45):
That's right.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (34:49):
Okay, another question for you.
Yeah, um, what have you foundthat's been the most rewarding
with having your business?
Ashala Naidu (34:59):
What have I found that has been the most rewarding
?
I mean it's def, It'sdefinitely the team that I work
with, right it's.
So I feel very rewarded.
Like I said, the team that wehave here.
We're like a little family andI felt very, very rewarded
getting to come to work withthese people every single day,
to get to know them, to gettheir know their families.
(35:19):
That, without question, is thebest part.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (35:22):
I love that and it is true, working with
people that you, that you likeand that it you are a family, it
really does make it.
It's still work, but maybe itdoesn't seem so much like work.
Ashala Naidu (35:40):
That's right.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (35:41):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
Do you have a most importantlesson that you've learned along
the way?
Ashala Naidu (35:49):
The most important lesson that I've learned along
the way.
Honestly, there's been so manylessons I feel that I've learned
along the way.
I think probably the bestlessons are the ones that really
teach you something, right?
So I found that lots of peoplein this career have their own
(36:13):
way of doing things and theirown way of practicing law, and I
think that something that'sworked for me is just being
authentically myself.
So I like that when I get tomeet new clients or old clients,
I get to be myself and people.
I don't need to pretend to besomebody else.
(36:34):
So I find that being myself andletting people get to know me
and getting to know them hasbeen something that's been a
really good lesson.
I don't need to pretend to besomebody else or pretend to know
things that I don't know about.
I just have to be myself and domy job well and things are good
.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (36:53):
I love that and honestly, being genuine and
authentic gets you so muchfarther that it just builds that
relationship with yourself andthe community and word of mouth
and everything else.
So I think that's a great, agreat lesson.
Is there anything you wish thatyou would have known, or maybe
something that you could tellyour younger self?
Ashala Naidu (37:18):
If I could tell my younger self something, I think
it would just be you know, justwork hard.
I feel like I have workedreally, really hard in life, but
I feel like just remindingmyself you know, everything's
always going to be okay andthere's going to be trials and
tribulations.
You know in life and there'sgoing to be ups and downs and
stressful portions, but it's howyou deal with them that's
(37:40):
important, right?
Mackenzie Kilshaw (37:42):
So so true and, honestly, nothing
substitutes hard work.
Yeah, that's right.
I don't think there's anythingin the world right?
Hard work is hard work and itwill get you where you're trying
to go, that's for sure.
Well, thank you so much forbeing on.
I appreciate this.
I really enjoyed your story.
(38:03):
I do know you, but I didn'tknow kind of your story along
the way.
I know people are going to wantto learn more about you or
maybe reach out for some lawservices.
Where's the best place thatpeople can find you?
Ashala Naidu (38:16):
The best way that people could find me.
I'm a big email person.
I know we just talked about theblackout period.
I don't do that.
The best way to reach out to meis by just sending me an email.
My email is ashala@naidulegal.
com and, or else, you know, I'mpretty accessible by the phone
(38:37):
too.
But yeah, email usually is thebest way to get ahold of me.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (38:41):
I love it.
I hope that someone listeninghere does reach out to you which
I know they will, and maybe notfor a divorce or a, but for
something that they can,something positive.
They're buying a new home orsomething, but thank you so much
for being on and sharing yourjourney and some great advice
with our audience.
(39:03):
I appreciate it.
Ashala Naidu (39:04):
Thanks so much for having me,M, I'll see you soon.
You're welcome.
I'm so good for that.
vest the black one.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (39:14):
I will, for sure, for everyone listening.
We'll see you on the nextepisode.
Thanks for listening to Winning.
Be sure to subscribe to get allof our new episodes.
If you enjoyed this episode andyou'd like to help support the
podcast, please share it withothers, post about it on social
media and leave a rating andreview wherever you listen to
Winning.
To catch all of the latest fromus, you can follow Winning
(39:36):
podcast on Instagram @winning_podcast, Facebook at Winning
Podcast and on Twitter @winningpod.
Winning was created and isproduced by me Mackenzie Kilshaw
.
Music, created by Summer Firby,editing by Seth Armstrong.
Special thanks to Shauna Fosterfor voicing our opening and, of
(39:57):
course, a huge thank you tothis episode's guests.
Thanks again for listening andI'll see you on the next episode
.
Winning is your guide to making it in business.
Join our award-winning host andentrepreneur, Mackenzie Kilshaw
, and special guests in casualconversations that will educate
and inspire you on your businessjourney.
Winning will help you learn thehard lessons the easy way, with
guidance from celebratedentrepreneurs and business
(00:26):
leaders.
It's fun, it's informative,it's winning.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (00:30):
Hello, welcome to Winning.
I am your host, MackenzieKilshaw, and today's guest is
Ashala Naidu.
Hi, , how are you?
Hi, I'm good.
Thanks, how are you?
Really good, I'm so happy tohave you on.
It's going to be fun.
Ashala Naidu (00:44):
I'm looking forward to it.
I feel a little bit nervousbecause, like we were saying
before, I've never done Ihaven't done very many podcasts,
but you've assured me that it'sgoing to be very conversational
, so I'm looking forward to it.
Thanks for inviting me.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (00:56):
No, you know what.
Everyone, everyone that comeson, is like I'm so nervous
because I don't what if I, youknow, like don't say the right
thing.
But really it's your story andI'm excited to chat today a
little bit more about havingwomen in the workplace, your
lawyer.
So we're going to.
We're going to have a good time.
No need to be nervous at all.
If you don't know , she's thefounder and owner of Naidu Legal
(01:21):
, a boutique law firm located inSaskatoon.
She practices family law, butthe firm also offers real estate
wills, states, corporate andcivil litigation.
She opened in 2019 and she has13 women from all different,
diverse backgrounds andexperiences, which is really
cool to have an office full ofwomen.
I love that.
(01:41):
So, , do you want to tell theaudience a little bit more about
yourself and who you are?
Ashala Naidu (01:49):
Yeah, sure.
So, like you said, Mackenzie,my name is Naidu.
I live in Saskatoon,Saskatchewan.
This is my home.
I've lived here since I wasborn.
I do practice law full time.
I mostly a family law lawyer.
My outside interests, though,that's just.
You know, my career andprofession is a very small part
(02:12):
of the person who I am.
So I'm a wife.
My husband, Depesh, was alsoborn in Saskatoon.
We have two children, Ava, whois 14, and Dev, who is six.
We spend a lot of time infamily, you know, running the
kids around.
There are various activities.
Ava's dance very competitively,so our family is very involved
(02:35):
in the dance community.
Our little guy, Dev, is, youknow, in activities as well.
They both go to school fulltime.
So you know we live a very busylifestyle.
When I have a little bit ofdowntime, I have a lot of
outside interests as well.
I like to travel with my familyand friends.
I also really enjoy running.
(02:55):
So those are two things I'mpretty into slowly getting more
into a Peloton as well, which iskind of switching things up.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (03:03):
Oh, you know what I've never done?
Peloton.
But I feel like I need to getinto it because everybody, like
I, have so many friends thathave the bikes or they do the
running and love it.
So that's a good suggestionthat you didn't really give, but
I'm taking it.
Ashala Naidu (03:17):
Yeah, it's fun.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (03:19):
Yeah.
So I think when people hearthat your career is a lawyer,
they automatically think youwork a lot, that you're always
at the office or take work home,but clearly you have a busy
family life also.
I guess.
First of all, how do youbalance all of that?
(03:40):
Let's start there.
Ashala Naidu (03:44):
It's a really good question.
So I'm used to kind of beingaccustomed to being a really
busy person.
I've worked.
I often talk about myexperiences in working, in
entrepreneurship.
So I actually, the day that Iturned 16, I started to work.
So a lot of people from myprevious life know me as the
(04:05):
Rogers Video Girl.
I was also a liquor store girlfor a long time.
So I worked, you know, allthrough later high school as
soon as I could have a job.
I've had one and, honestly,working from a young age and
working as much as I always haveworked really taught me really
good time management skills.
So you know, through myuniversity education I was often
(04:29):
gainfully employed as well.
I haven't taken a mat leave.
I've been.
You know, I was student with ourfirst and then with Dev, I was
a practicing lawyer by that time.
So I feel like I really hadalready established the
organizational skills that Ineeded to be able to balance a
lot of different things.
Also, I think it goes withoutsaying, but I've had a
(04:52):
tremendous amount of support inmy life.
You know my parents are very,very supportive, my siblings, my
husband obviously, so that wecan kind of arrange to do it all
and also I'm very supportive inlaws as well, who help out a
lot with the kids when thingsget, you know, really, really
busy and we have to wear a lotof different hats.
(05:13):
So well supported.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (05:15):
Yeah, that support system goes a long way
because when you do have otherpeople you can rely on, that's
your helps, and I'm sure thesame in your business.
I'm sure there's people withinyour business that you can
delegate or can help you withthings too.
Ashala Naidu (05:29):
Right, oh yeah, that's totally true.
We have, like we have anawesome team at work here at
Naidu Legal.
So, like you had said, we're ateam of 13 women from all
different areas of life, sothere's four of us who are
lawyers in the office, and thenwe have support staff at the
office, experience paralegalsand legal assistance students,
(05:51):
and we also have a full timeoffice manager who helps me keep
organized, you know, with booksand the financial piece of the
business.
So you know it's hugely helpful.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (06:00):
Yeah, that's awesome, did you always?
I mean, you're kind of a you're, you have a I'll call it a
double career, because you're alawyer, but you're also an
entrepreneur and a smallbusiness owner.
So did you always want to be alawyer, or how did that kind of
start with your career?
Ashala Naidu (06:19):
Yeah, you know I chose a career path in early
university.
So you know, I, my mom, is alawyer as well.
We practice some together atNaidu Legal, so she has 22 years
of experience.
So, growing up she was also.
You know, I think that shefinished her law degree when I
was in grade nine.
(06:41):
I'm pretty sure it was herarticling years.
So you know, we grew up beingvery, very exposed to having
busy parents and going to workwith them.
So I knew that.
You know, I'm a people person.
I really like people andworking with people and I kind
of learned, you know, early onthat I thought that, you know, a
career in law was what I wasgoing to really, really enjoy
(07:02):
doing, because I had a reallystrong role model, which is our
mom, who I saw practicing law,and I just thought that it was a
really, you know, interestingand unique career and that was
the career path that I kind offollowed.
So I found a niche pretty early.
In practice.
All practicing lawyers have toarticle for one year before we
(07:23):
start practicing law.
So you know it was during myarticling year that I really
started to enjoy family law.
So you know I like to work withthe clients.
I found that the clients liketo work with me.
I like to hear their stories, Ilike to get to know them.
So I really fell into it prettyeasily and spent the first four
(07:44):
years of my career working atanother small boutique law firm
where I just learned a whole lotabout, you know, practice
management skills and dealingwith different clientele and
even sometimes dealing withdifficult clientele, and it's
just, you know, been reallyreally rewarding experience that
I really found what I enjoy inmy niche and have kind of run
(08:05):
with it.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (08:05):
So yeah, that's awesome.
I love how you said difficultclientele, because I don't think
it matters what business youhave, you're always going to
have someone difficult and thoseare really skills you learn
with experience.
I hate to say it, but the morepeople you deal with, the more
that you are able to work withpeople that are difficult,
(08:26):
because being a lawyer,especially when you're dealing
with family law, I'm sure a lotof those clients of yours and
cases are not easy, right.
They're difficult and emotionaland all sorts of things.
Ashala Naidu (08:41):
That's exactly it.
Like, a lot of the cases that Ideal with are really difficult
cases.
They're emotional cases and Ioften, you know, I compare I
often compare myself to meetingyou know somebody on literally
the worst day of their life,right, like, a lot of the time
when people come to my office,they're really, really stressed,
they're going throughtremendous life transition and,
(09:02):
you know, I'm kind of the firststop for what should I do next
and what are my options and whatis my life going to look like,
right?
So I feel like I have goodskills in working with people
who are going through trauma andwho are going through, you know
, emotionally charged situationsand I could help them, you know
, get through it with my legalknowledge, as well as just my
(09:24):
ability to talk to people andkeep them calm and listen.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (09:29):
I think I'm a good listener, so, yeah, yeah,
all skills that you learnedalong the way, yeah, probably,
yeah, probably, from articling.
And then it's experience, right, which is?
I don't think anything canreally substitute for experience
, right?
It just helps us so much andI'm sure every day you become a
(09:49):
better lawyer because you havethis experience with different
people.
I like to think so yeah, no, Iagree.
Okay.
So you worked at another firmfor four years.
How did you decide okay, I wantto do this on my own, I want to
have my own firm.
How did that
Ashala Naidu (10:08):
Well, you know it was a tough decision.
I practiced, like I said, atanother boutique law firm.
I had wonderful mentorship frommy previous employer.
It was a wonderful experienceand I learned a whole heck of a
lot when it came to the practiceof law.
And just, he was really goodwith working with clients.
So, you know, his clientsadored him and I saw how he
(10:31):
worked so well with people.
And you know, I guess my journeyinto doing things on my own was
just kind of an interest inentrepreneurship and wanting to
do things a little bitdifferently.
So, you know, some people whohave been practicing law for
quite a long time are not reallyfully implementing things like
technology or best practicesinto practice.
(10:53):
And I just found that, you know, I was kind of trying to create
better efficiencies and dothings a little bit differently
and market myself and myservices a little bit
differently.
And I felt that, you know, Ihad a really good foundation of
clientele and people who wouldsupport me and who would support
my new practice.
(11:13):
At the time that, you know, wegot into our first space, which
was a very small space, I feltthat the risk you know I'm not
I'm a pretty risk adverse person.
So I don't think, you know, I'mhuge risks and at the time that
you know we started thepractice, it was just myself and
a paralegal and we took on avery, very small space and I
(11:35):
felt that you know, it waspretty low risk to be able to
start things up and you know,see how things would go, and
just kind of practice on my own.
Dev, our younger son at thetime was one when I had gone out
on my own as well.
So I was kind of looking for alittle bit better work life
balance.
I guess too, when you're theboss you just kind of do things
(11:55):
your own way, right?
Mackenzie Kilshaw (11:56):
And that was yeah for sure.
Yeah, that flexibility is partof why being an entrepreneur is
so amazing.
Ashala Naidu (12:02):
That's right.
That's right, I was looking forthat.
So that's you know what wedecided to do and have it look
back.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (12:08):
Okay, so it's you and a paralegal.
I agree that small space issuch.
Starting small is such a greatidea because, okay, you know,
you basically have to makeenough living for you, pay your
rent, pay your paralegal we'regood, right.
So how do you get from there tohaving 13 women in your office?
Ashala Naidu (12:28):
It happened really organically.
So I mean it really.
You know we were in operations.
I guess we opened the firm inJuly of 2019.
So it's coming up on five yearsnow.
You know, the first six monthsof practice, you know were great
.
By December of that year I wasalready looking into hiring an
(12:49):
associate because there was justtoo much workflow for me to
handle on my own.
So I needed somebody else toprovide that you know, legal
relief for me because it wasjust, you know, really too much.
And then COVID happened.
So in March I guess it was theCOVID, that thing, right.
So yeah.
(13:09):
In March of 2020, you know, theworld kind of shut down and that
included legal practices, ish.
At that time, you know, we neveractually shut our doors, nor
did we have to shut our doorsbecause COVID, you know, very
unfortunately for the peoplethat I serve but separations and
(13:30):
divorces and people buying andselling homes and wills and
estate planning, you know, atlike quadrupled in size.
So we found, you know, duringthat period of time, you know,
we were trying to figure out howto do things differently and to
be nimble with, you know, ourcompliment of people getting
sick, preparing, embracingmyself for the possibility of
(13:52):
having to transition thepractice into the basement of my
home, like that's what I was,with three people right and
trying to figure out how is thisreally going to work in the
event that things actually doshut down.
But fortunately, we remainsuper, super busy during that
period of time and weather thestorms.
So by the summer of that kindof COVID year, we were so busy
(14:14):
that we were already goingthrough, you know, further
hiring for people and trying tofind, you know, more people to
join the firm and it just kindof took off from there.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (14:24):
Yeah, it's crazy, but, like you said, it
seems like during that COVIDyear, that 2020, March of 2020
on I don't know but people werehaving babies or getting
divorced or buying a differenthouse.
I think, all of a sudden, youhad to work from home.
Your kids are there, you're allthere and you're like, oh man,
we need a bigger, we need abigger home, or right.
(14:46):
So I can imagine for you thatwas a crazy time.
Ashala Naidu (14:51):
It was a really crazy time.
It was really crazy.
Yeah, we had some in our first,in our first space.
The first space that I rentedwas downtown on 3rd Avenue South
and it was a little bit of aco-working space, so there was a
bunch of different businesseswho were kind of on the floor
there.
We had to figure out somecreative ways to serve our
clients for a little while.
(15:12):
So you know, I was often Iwasn't able to meet clients in
the office for a short period oftime, so we were doing a lot of
like printing and running downand like finding a bench or
keeping people in their cars tosign documentation.
It was crazy.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (15:25):
Yeah, but it was a crazy time and you kind of
had to do what you had to do,right, because you still need it
.
If someone's selling their homeand there's a possession date
or a closing date, you stillneed to sign those papers on
that date.
Ashala Naidu (15:38):
That's right.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (15:39):
Yeah, that's awesome.
I mean just, it doesn't matterwhat you were.
Once again, law practice mewith the clothing store at that
time, people with restaurants,whatever you just did what you
had to do to get through, that'sright and yeah, and for you
then you face growth kind of inthat time as well.
Yeah, we did.
Yeah, that's fantastic.
(16:00):
So obviously you have to lookfor a new space then, as you're
hiring more people and so youhave all women in your office,
which I absolutely love,obviously, being a woman.
But Was that accidental or isthat kind of a purposeful thing
that you did?
Ashala Naidu (16:19):
It's, honestly, it's been kind of both.
We've had men who have workedfor the office before, so it
hasn't always been a femalecompliment.
But, like I said before, wehave this just really awesome
team of women who work here andit works so well for us, like
we're honestly it's such a goodteam that's here.
We're like a little family.
Everybody gets along so wellhere and I just feel like it's
(16:42):
really it's just a good fit foreverybody.
To be honest with you, like Iwouldn't consider myself to be
like a, a feminist or purposelytrying not to hire men, and I
should say as well, like we havea huge clientele of men as well
.
Right, oh for sure, onlyrepresent women.
It's men as well.
But you know, as far as likethe people who work here, I
(17:03):
think because I'm mostly incharge of of recruitment at the
office, I am obviously lookingfor a certain type of
personality, with people,obviously experience as well.
So I've found that you know, Ido personally work best with
women.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (17:18):
So yeah, well , and I think, yeah, when you
have your, when you have abusiness that fit, honestly, I
think that fit, so the personfits into your culture and gets
along with people and, like yousay, you're a family, like
you're a team, you're not justco-workers.
I think that is often moreimportant.
(17:41):
A lot of skills you can teach,right, yeah, but you can't teach
that fit.
So that is such an importantthing.
Ashala Naidu (17:49):
It really is, and it's not only like an important
fit for me, but, like the peoplewho are here, it's a really
important fit for them as well.
Right, it's like yeah, I'd liketo think that we're a work
environment that really supportswork-life balance.
Like you know, people you knowhave children, they've grandkids
, people have different thingsgoing on, you know houses to
look after.
(18:09):
So I like to think that we'rean environment that really
supports people's out of workactivities and lifestyles.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (18:16):
Yeah, I love that.
Is there specific things thatyou do to ensure that they have
that balance, or what's kind ofyour philosophy on that?
Ashala Naidu (18:25):
Well, my philosophy on that, which I've
always you know, kind of it'salways been close to my heart
from the time that I waspracticing At my previous firm
is that it's always family first.
So I mean, we're kind of in aunique situation because I
practice with my mom and mysister.
So, yeah, part of part of thatis, you know, kind of family is
(18:45):
always first.
Luckily, we don't have anymajor things as a family that
have required us to, you know,be out of office to address.
But everybody, you know,whether it is spending time with
children, grandparents, youknow, aunts and uncles, the
people who are important toeverybody who's here, that's
just something that's reallyimportant to me.
So I like to make sure thateveryone knows that, like, it's
(19:07):
always family first.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (19:09):
I love that, I'm the same.
I'm the same like work isimportant and work has to get
done and especially when youhave them employees, they're
getting paid for doing a serviceor whatever.
It is right, but at the end ofthe day, nothing replaces your
family, mm-hmm.
And I don't know if you foundthis, but I found that when
there is that better balance andpeople were, you know, when I
(19:32):
my store, if somebody said, oh,I'm supposed to work on next
Saturday, but it's my sister'sbirthday, like could I to me,
ensuring that they had that timewith their family and saying,
yes, what's a shift or we'll,you know, figure it out.
Whatever they were happier anda happier employee actually is
better for me.
Yeah, I agree, yeah, yeah.
They're happier, they're moreproductive, they want to do
(19:54):
things for you, not just becauseit's their job, but because
they appreciate that right.
Ashala Naidu (19:59):
That's right.
Yeah, that's exactly it.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (20:01):
Yeah, it's true and that's not why we do it
right, but it's a really nicespin-off of treating your staff
really well.
When you treat them well, theytreat you well back, right.
Ashala Naidu (20:12):
Yeah, I think so too.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (20:13):
Yeah, awesome , okay.
So I think people listening aregonna be like an office full of
women is fantastic, but also,oh my gosh, what is the dynamic
in an office full of women?
So let's chat on that a littlebit.
Ashala Naidu (20:30):
Honestly, I think we have.
We haven't had a lot of a lotof problems here with the women,
you know.
Again, I know that there's alot of conversation right now
kind of around entrepreneurshipand what it means to be the
right fit, but like the rightfit isn't only coming from me,
right, like a lot of the time,when it comes to transition or
trying to find the right fit,people are often you know,
(20:52):
employees are often looking forthe right fit for them too, and
what type of work environmentfits in with their you know
family and their friends andjust their lifestyle.
So, you know, lots of peoplewould think that we would have a
whole heck of a lot of dramahere at Naidu Legal, and I'd be
lying if I said that therehasn't been any drama, because
(21:12):
there's been some drama.
But anywhere.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (21:15):
There's drama anywhere, whether you've got
men or women.
Ashala Naidu (21:18):
Right, that's right.
So I think that's just par forthe course and any work
environment like you're gonna.
You know you're gonna have alittle bit of drama and you have
to figure out best practices onhow to support and encourage,
you know, your colleaguesthrough that.
I found that, you know, as wegrow and as I've had the
opportunity to have an officemanager at the office in
(21:40):
particular, I'm able to offloadlike the HR and the management
off of myself on to Naidu Legaland I I feel so much happier
like not having to deal withlike HR functions as well as
some of that like managementstuff that I'm just not, I just
don't love.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (21:59):
Yeah, I was gonna ask you how do you deal
with that, because you're also apracticing lawyer.
So how do you deal with anoffice conflict, maybe, or not
just that, but just how do youdeal with working with 13 people
?
But your answer is an officemanager, which is fantastic.
Ashala Naidu (22:17):
It is and like I mean obviously because I'm the
owner of the firm, I obviouslydo involve myself in a lot of
and like everything managerial.
But just looking after kind ofa lot of the day to day or week
to week, like it's not likethere's always HR stuff going on
, but just having somebody elsewho can address that, is just
hugely helpful for me.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (22:37):
So for sure, and I mean in all reality, you
are the owner, but your time isbetter spent with your clients
or working under clients.
Then it is planning the officeparty, really in all reality.
Right, that's exactly it.
Yeah, are there other thingstoo that you maybe did when you
started and now you delegate, orI know you talked to the
(23:00):
beginning about efficiencies.
So what else have you donewhere maybe when you first
started, you did, but now youhave someone else take care of?
Ashala Naidu (23:10):
A lot of things.
There's a lot of things.
I mean.
I found one thing we've kind oftransitioned between, when
people call the office, havingan automated person who's
answering versus having anactual live person.
So I found that, like a lot ofthe time when people are
contacting I do legal, they'reoften calling to work with me.
(23:31):
So I find that something thatyou know I've transitioned to in
practice is really making surethat everybody who calls for me
at the office has a really goodexperience the first time that
they contact us, and usuallythat involves like direct
communication with me and I'mvery expressed with clients.
You know if I have to delegatea file to an associate at the
(23:52):
office or if I'm able to becauseof capacity to work with them.
The bookkeeping functions also.
We've been very I've been veryfortunate in practice to always
have a bookkeeper.
We've had a couple of differentbookkeepers I have our office
manager now looks after thebooks for the firm, which is
hugely helpful for me because myinterest level is like very,
(24:16):
very low and I also don't haveany sort of experience in like
business management, like I'mnot a commerce girl.
Hey, guess what?
I have a commerce degree and I,when I opened my business, I
was like I have a commercedegree, I can do the books.
How hard can this be?
And I did it for I'm going tosay two months and I very
(24:39):
quickly realized, wow, I do notknow what I'm doing commerce
degree or not and I'm spendingfor me.
It was the time I was spendingso much time on a task that
didn't bring me revenue, thatdidn't let me do anything else
and I wasn't good at it, so itwas kind of a triple bad, I'd
(25:01):
say.
But something like that, likegetting someone else and nice
for you, you can have that inyour office.
If you don't have someone inthe office, then it's something
that you can just pay someone todo.
But things like your books canreally, I mean, freeze up time
and you know that they're doneproperly, because it's also
something that can get you intoproblems down the line if it's
(25:22):
not done correctly.
That's exactly right.
And I've had, you know, I'vetalked, I've had the opportunity
to, you know, have discussionswith a lot of female
entrepreneurs actually over theyears, and that's something that
I notice a lot of femaleentrepreneurs say, like male
entrepreneurs, not, I haven'thad as much experience, I guess,
talking to a lot of maleentrepreneurs, but the females
(25:43):
often, you know, are saying tome, like you know, having a
bookkeeper has just been soinvaluable and, you know, just
having to do all of the books onmy own is just not my skill set
.
And I think that's me like Itried my best to be involved in
the process of the business, butit's not my skill set, like I
will be honest, like I didn'tknow, like what a source
(26:05):
deduction was.
I did not know that.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (26:09):
But how would you?
How would you?
Because you've never had todeal with it before.
Ashala Naidu (26:12):
Exactly, you have to own it right exactly.
So you know, I hear I've hadother conversations with people
who were like, oh, like I didn'trealize that you had to like
have like additional insurancethrough workers compensation and
stuff like that, and they'relike.
I didn't even know what that is.
I didn't know.
No one told me right.
So yeah, it's like these things, just to have somebody else to
(26:32):
like actually help you throughthat process is so helpful.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (26:36):
It's true, and that's part of why you have
there's other people that haveprofessions that are in these
areas.
Right, yeah, I want to talkabout marketing a little bit,
because I know that you kind ofhad said that before you started
your own, you wanted to marketyourself a little bit
differently.
So how did that like?
How has that been, and do youdo your own marketing, or is
(26:57):
that also something that youhave someone help you with?
Ashala Naidu (27:00):
I do not personally look after the
marketing for the firm.
We work with a number ofdifferent people to help us with
our marketing, but themarketing is actually for the
most part the not the designpart.
But the actual pushing outcontent is mostly handled by my
husband.
Depesh, actually so nice yeah.
So he's also an entrepreneur.
(27:21):
He knows what he's doingMarketing and all of the
different things that we do,from the you know, design to
actually getting the content outthere to try in different
forums.
I mean it's, it doesn't likethe reason why we do it is for
brand awareness, right.
So it's like we don't reallyconvert on a whole bunch of
(27:43):
clientele by doing the thingsthat we do.
But I do like to be involved inthe community and I like for
Naidu Legal to be, you know, outthere in the community.
So the marketing that we do,it's, you know, it's rewarding,
it's fun.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (27:57):
Yeah, exactly , and I think, too, a lot of
people kind of forget they thinklaw firm will what you have to
do for marketing.
You're not quote unquote,selling anything, that's right.
But, like you said, you wantpeople to know who you are,
because if I am buying a housenext week, I want to be able to
phone you and say, because I sawyour social media post or your
(28:20):
billboard or your whatever itwas, and say, oh, I know
somebody that does that.
Right, I know you've got lotsof events because I've seen you
lots of events, but it's like,oh, I know somebody that does
that.
And then they pick up the phoneand they call you.
Ashala Naidu (28:33):
That's right.
Yeah, yeah, it's very timeconsuming, though.
Like I mean any sort of designthat we do, from you know,
getting the design done, toactually getting that ad or
whatever it is the content doneup to, like proofing it, it's
very time consuming.
So that was really lost on me.
Yeah, we have a marketingbackground.
It's like it's awesome, becauseI just I can't believe you know
(28:56):
how time consuming it actuallyis to do that and think up that
content.
Yeah, I know.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (29:01):
And we I think we forget or maybe not
even forget, don't realize, Ithink is just really what it is,
especially now in the world ofsocial media, of Facebook and
Instagram and Tik Tok and allthreads and acts and all the
things, right.
We don't realize or think thatthere are people that are
(29:23):
content creators, that that's,that's their job.
They just make the content,that's their, that's their
career, that's right.
And you forget that a lot of us, as entrepreneurs, like I, can
do it myself, but you don'trealize what a time socket is
until you're actually in it,right?
And that's such a good point youmade.
Ashala Naidu (29:41):
Yeah, that's right .
It's such a you know, I I likeit.
Like I love good branding andgood marketing, like I think
it's cool when I see peopledoing like cool things or having
like cool awareness for theirbusiness.
I just like it all.
But actually like taking thetime to think up that content
like I'm I'm not that clever, Ican't do it.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (30:00):
I know, and it's time consuming because to
make, especially now in theworld of like reels on Instagram
and things like that, it's notjust posting a photo anymore,
it's having your logo on it andhaving to edit things and add
music and add a caption andcreate the, the actual caption,
part of the wording thatprovides value to your clients.
Like, there's so many thingsnow.
(30:22):
It's not just here.
We are a photo of you, right,call us if you need us, sort of
thing.
It's so much more goes into itnow than just that.
That's right.
Yeah, it's crazy.
It's a whole, well billiondollar industry.
Now is social media.
So yeah, it's a crazy time.
Let's talk about challenges alittle bit.
(30:42):
We kind of talked about allwomen.
I know that you've got a reallygreat, really great group there
.
It's your family fit.
But what are some challengesyou face?
Maybe it is with having a groupof women or just generally in
your business that have beentough.
Ashala Naidu (31:01):
I think you know the biggest thing for me has
been balance in my life.
So I find you know work isalways busy, right, and that
goes for all of us.
It doesn't matter what careeryou're in.
Work could be really, reallybusy.
I have good supports and I havegood set up at home, like I
have the ability to work fromhome pretty well.
(31:23):
But I'm trying to just kind offigure out that right balance
between, you know, work andbeing fully present, because I
feel like my presence.
You know, especially duringfamily time and stuff like that,
I'm always a little bitdistracted, but I feel, you know
I do, I do my best to do it alland you know, spend lots of
time with my kids and I do spendlots of time with with my kids,
(31:43):
but it's always it feels likeit's kind of always like my mind
sometimes could be somewhereelse if I'm really busy.
So figuring out that balanceand what works best for me, I
feel is something that's been anongoing challenge and I don't
know if I have the answer forthat quite yet.
I tell, I tell students, youknow this is, this is a hard
career and it's a.
(32:03):
It's a busy career For me.
I find, you know, being alawyer, I could work literally
24 hours a day if I wanted to.
I have that much work thatalways needs to be addressed.
I use the tele.
I get asked this question when Italk, you know, at the college
and stuff like that.
Like what, what do you do forwork, life balance?
And I used to always say thatbetween five and eight o'clock I
(32:25):
would have like a dead periodwhere, like, I wouldn't check my
phone, I wouldn't like check myemail, I wouldn't go on to my
computer, I would just like donothing.
But I get more team membershere, people sort of calling me
out.
They're like you don't do that,you're like wait a minute.
You say you do it.
Yeah, they're like stop tellingthe students that you do that,
you don't do that.
So I like to think that I dothings like that, yeah.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (32:50):
You know what , though?
I've done that too, and I'mkind of the same as you.
I, to me, like balance.
It's never like a scale where,like, both sides are equal is
what I find.
I find that sometimes, like,the workload is heavy and that's
where I'm okay, like today andtomorrow, I literally have to
just sit at my desk and do asmuch as I can, because then the
(33:11):
next day we're going to abaseball tournament or something
and then I'm not gonna reallywork at all.
So right, I think it's not thatlike even scale.
It's like one day work is heavyand one day life is heavy, and
that's just kind of how it is.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'vealso tried to do what you did
and turn off the phone or notlook at it, but I also and
(33:36):
probably personality, I don'tknow about you, but I almost
then had a little bit of anxiety, maybe when I picked up the
phone, because it was like oh mygod, now I have to reply to 10
different you know phone call,text, email, whatever it is when
.
If I just would have done oneby one, it would have been a
minute here, a minute there.
Now I have to spend an hourdoing it.
Ashala Naidu (33:56):
That's right.
I find the same thing.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (33:58):
Yeah, yeah, one thing I did do that I talked
about before, is emails.
I actually turned my emailnotification off on my phone,
mm-hmm.
So I still get emails comethrough, but I don't hear a ding
or get a vibrator or whatever.
And I found that that's reallyhelpful, because then I just say
, okay, you know, every day camenow I'm checking it, and then
(34:21):
I'm checking it again whenever,and that's the times I deal with
it, and then I don't look at itagain till tomorrow.
Yeah, and that seems to havehelped.
Ashala Naidu (34:28):
Yeah, that's a good that's actually good advice
, just to you know, not bepresent with the email, because
that's like my number onefanatic.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (34:37):
Yeah, I know, and I think the thing is it's
really easy to be like I'll justcheck it quick and 25 minutes
later You're still on there,right?
Ashala Naidu (34:45):
That's right.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (34:49):
Okay, another question for you.
Yeah, um, what have you foundthat's been the most rewarding
with having your business?
Ashala Naidu (34:59):
What have I found that has been the most rewarding
?
I mean it's def, It'sdefinitely the team that I work
with, right it's.
So I feel very rewarded.
Like I said, the team that wehave here.
We're like a little family andI felt very, very rewarded
getting to come to work withthese people every single day,
to get to know them, to gettheir know their families.
(35:19):
That, without question, is thebest part.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (35:22):
I love that and it is true, working with
people that you, that you likeand that it you are a family, it
really does make it.
It's still work, but maybe itdoesn't seem so much like work.
Ashala Naidu (35:40):
That's right.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (35:41):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
Do you have a most importantlesson that you've learned along
the way?
Ashala Naidu (35:49):
The most important lesson that I've learned along
the way.
Honestly, there's been so manylessons I feel that I've learned
along the way.
I think probably the bestlessons are the ones that really
teach you something, right?
So I found that lots of peoplein this career have their own
(36:13):
way of doing things and theirown way of practicing law, and I
think that something that'sworked for me is just being
authentically myself.
So I like that when I get tomeet new clients or old clients,
I get to be myself and people.
I don't need to pretend to besomebody else.
(36:34):
So I find that being myself andletting people get to know me
and getting to know them hasbeen something that's been a
really good lesson.
I don't need to pretend to besomebody else or pretend to know
things that I don't know about.
I just have to be myself and domy job well and things are good
.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (36:53):
I love that and honestly, being genuine and
authentic gets you so muchfarther that it just builds that
relationship with yourself andthe community and word of mouth
and everything else.
So I think that's a great, agreat lesson.
Is there anything you wish thatyou would have known, or maybe
something that you could tellyour younger self?
Ashala Naidu (37:18):
If I could tell my younger self something, I think
it would just be you know, justwork hard.
I feel like I have workedreally, really hard in life, but
I feel like just remindingmyself you know, everything's
always going to be okay andthere's going to be trials and
tribulations.
You know in life and there'sgoing to be ups and downs and
stressful portions, but it's howyou deal with them that's
(37:40):
important, right?
Mackenzie Kilshaw (37:42):
So so true and, honestly, nothing
substitutes hard work.
Yeah, that's right.
I don't think there's anythingin the world right?
Hard work is hard work and itwill get you where you're trying
to go, that's for sure.
Well, thank you so much forbeing on.
I appreciate this.
I really enjoyed your story.
(38:03):
I do know you, but I didn'tknow kind of your story along
the way.
I know people are going to wantto learn more about you or
maybe reach out for some lawservices.
Where's the best place thatpeople can find you?
Ashala Naidu (38:16):
The best way that people could find me.
I'm a big email person.
I know we just talked about theblackout period.
I don't do that.
The best way to reach out to meis by just sending me an email.
My email is ashala@naidulegal.
com and, or else, you know, I'mpretty accessible by the phone
(38:37):
too.
But yeah, email usually is thebest way to get ahold of me.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (38:41):
I love it.
I hope that someone listeninghere does reach out to you which
I know they will, and maybe notfor a divorce or a, but for
something that they can,something positive.
They're buying a new home orsomething, but thank you so much
for being on and sharing yourjourney and some great advice
with our audience.
(39:03):
I appreciate it.
Ashala Naidu (39:04):
Thanks so much for having me,M, I'll see you soon.
You're welcome.
I'm so good for that.
vest the black one.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (39:14):
I will, for sure, for everyone listening.
We'll see you on the nextepisode.
Thanks for listening to Winning.
Be sure to subscribe to get allof our new episodes.
If you enjoyed this episode andyou'd like to help support the
podcast, please share it withothers, post about it on social
media and leave a rating andreview wherever you listen to
Winning.
To catch all of the latest fromus, you can follow Winning
(39:36):
podcast on Instagram @winning_podcast, Facebook at Winning
Podcast and on Twitter @winningpod.
Winning was created and isproduced by me Mackenzie Kilshaw
.
Music, created by Summer Firby,editing by Seth Armstrong.
Special thanks to Shauna Fosterfor voicing our opening and, of
(39:57):
course, a huge thank you tothis episode's guests.
Thanks again for listening andI'll see you on the next episode
.
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