Discover the power of perseverance and the hidden strengths within adversity as I, Mackenzie Kilshaw, sit with the awe-inspiring Bobbi-Jo Dureault. Her journey from the rinks of Canada's national women's ice hockey team to the nurturing halls of high school education is a testament to the human spirit's resilience. Throughout our conversation, Bobbi-Jo opens the playbook on her life, revealing how championing her educational challenges and anxiety has led to invaluable lessons in teamwork and determination. You're invited to witness the candid reflections of an Olympic hopeful whose career pivots have led to multiple roles as an educator, massage therapist, and entrepreneur.
Prepare to be captivated as Bobbi-Jo and I dissect the art of juggling ambitions with the realities of life's clock. As we examine her student-athlete years, you'll gain a front-row seat to the complexities of balancing a grueling hockey schedule with academic excellence. Bobbi-Jo doesn't just stop at sports - she's a jack-of-all trades with a thriving career and bustling family life. Her story is not just one of personal achievement but also an exploration of the profound impact that a robust support system and the unfailing power of love have on one's journey.
We navigate the entrepreneurial seas, from the spark of an idea to its market debut. Bobbi-Jo shares her real-world knowledge that trumps endless education, the intricacies of protecting a unique business concept, and the competitive edge that fuels innovation. Take notes as we map out the strategies for crafting an adaptable business plan and mastering time management. Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur or a dreamer aiming for the stars, this episode promises a rich trove of inspiration and no-nonsense advice for blazing your trail to success.
Mackenzie Kilshaw Co. offers comprehensive business coaching, and consulting tailored to your needs.
With Mackenzie's award winning entrepreneurial expertise in strategy, leadership, business development, branding, website development, social media management, SEO, sales and customer service training and more, clients receive personalized guidance to drive growth and success.
Let's make your business unforgettable!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Shauna Foster (00:20):
Winning will help you learn the hard lessons the
easy way, with guidance fromcelebrated entrepreneurs and
business leaders.
It's fun, it's informative,it's Winning.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (00:31):
Hello, welcome to Winning.
I'm your host, MackenzieKilshaw, and today's guest is
How are you today?
Fabulous, Thank you.
Awesome.
So Bobbi- Jo and I are friends.
She is someone I really admire.
She's a retired member ofCanada's national women's ice
hockey team.
She's a two-time NCAA divisionone national champion, a former
(00:55):
RBC Olympian I don't even likethe word former because I feel
like if you were an RBC Olympian, you still are.
I'm just going to say thatshe's a certified strength and
conditioning specialist, aregistered massage therapist and
a high school teacher.
That is a big resume, Bobbi- Jo.
We are friends.
I know a lot about you, butplease tell the audience a
little bit more about yourself.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (01:18):
Goodness, I am very long winded, so I will
do my best.
Yeah, you kind of just hit it.
Those are probably myhighlights of my life.
I would say, first and foremost, I am a mom and a wife and I
feel that I have so many thingsgoing on in my life.
So, born and raised in SwiftCurrent, Saskatchewan, and, yeah
(01:39):
, I've kind of come and gone andI've been all over the world
and traveled and I feel likeI've had a pretty darn good life
and so it's so amazing to behere.
Thank you for having me.
I love to talk, and so doesMackenzie, and that's why we're
friends, I think mostly.
But I'm looking forward to thisand just talking business, yeah
.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (01:58):
Yeah, we literally said like we're gonna
have to keep this like on atimeline because otherwise this
episode will be about threehours long.
Um, let's start from thebeginning of what we talked
about, because hockey is areally big part of your life,
still is, um, definitely was uma few years back.
As I said, former Olympian.
I still think you, you stillare an Olympian, um, but why
(02:21):
don't you talk a little bitabout kind of your life before
now and really that role ofhockey in your life and kind of
where it took you?
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (02:32):
Okay, so I'm like I said, I grew up in Swift
Current, Saskatchewan, sothere's not, there's not a lot
happening here.
You got to keep yourself busy.
I had a very supportive parents, so I have I parents here in
town and I'm the oldest of three, so I have a brother and a
sister and we were all prettymuch involved in sports at a
young age and any activity thatwould probably keep us busy.
(02:54):
And so I started skating youngand playing hockey.
When I was seven and thisreally will date me because I am
an old lady I was one of thefirst to play hockey in Swift
Current.
I played with the boys.
I grew up playing with the boys.
There was really no teams andnowhere for me to play growing
up, and so I just kept reallybusy doing that and loved the
(03:14):
game and just loved theopportunity being able to play
sports.
I will say a little bit in that,like I had a lot of anxiety
growing up I still do I'm kindof like an anxious person and
had a lot of fear of failure andI think school for me was
always a struggle and achallenge.
So when people hear that I'm ateacher, they think it's
(03:34):
hilarious because they're like,well, you didn't really love
school and I didn't.
I struggled, and so I thinksport and activity and really
anything that I did, it kind ofit grounded me, it made me feel
calm, it made me have fun, but,like the things that you develop
with sport, with like being ateammate and, you know, having
that accountability and that andbeing dedicated to things, I
(03:57):
feel like that solidified a lotof good habits in my life and so
, yes, I could talk and talk,but basically I grew up here, I
moved away when I was 16.
And I played in Notre Dame forthe Athenbury College of Notre
Dame and I was there for mygrade 11 and 12 years and, lucky
, I was very lucky to receive ascholarship, and so that took me
another 35, 30 hours away toMadison, Wisconsin, where I was
(04:22):
able to do something that I loveto do daily and get my
education paid for, and so lifewas pretty good up to that point
.
At that same time, I was ableto be recognized amongst many in
Canada for the under 22 team atthe time.
Now their programs have changeda little bit, but I played four
years from 18 to 22 with thewomen's kind of under 22
(04:44):
national team and was able totravel all over Europe and
Canada and a little bit in theStates, obviously, with playing
at Wisconsin and just had someamazing, incredible experiences
and I can say I met amazingpeople.
I was able to play hockey andjust enjoy a pretty cool journey
through that.
And then I did jump and Ibounced around with the national
team.
So you did mention Olympian andI will correct you cool journey
through that.
And then I did jump and Ibounced around with the national
(05:05):
team.
So you did mention Olympian andI will correct you I was close,
I was very close to going tothe Olympics, I would say, and
maybe not even getting there,just being in that.
I would say I was considered asone of those potential hopefuls.
So an Olympic hopeful is what Iwould consider myself and who
knows what would have happenedin the end.
But unfortunately I enduredsome pretty big injuries.
(05:31):
I had bilateral reconstructiveshoulder surgery rate prior kind
of to 2010 Olympics and so youknow, wasn't able to even have
an opportunity to centralize andonce again, that's that's who
knows what would have happenedthrough that.
But a lot of those players Iwas very lucky to be able to
play with the best of the bestwith Canada and the US, and so
that was pretty awesome.
And then, you know, anotherfour years went down and 2014
(05:53):
came along and I had I hadundergone quite a few knee
surgeries.
So I've had four in total kneereconstructions and that really
sidelined me for good.
And yeah, that's my life story.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (06:03):
That's basically what hockey, my
playing career, kind of how thatended for me yeah, I think it's
so unfortunate when you hearthat injury right, because you
trained so hard and you work.
Literally you started to playhockey in your seven, you work,
I.
And when you're seven, I meanactually you probably did think
you're going to the Olympics,then let's be serious.
But yeah, when you're probably,um, I mean actually you
(06:24):
probably did think you weregoing to the Olympics, then
let's be serious.
But when you're probably, butyou know, you worked your whole
like adolescent life and thenearly adulthood for that and it
is really sad.
But, like you said, you stillcame away with those
relationships and that networkof people and being in that
system.
And I think you really hit alot when you said with sports
(06:46):
you develop that team mentalityand being able to work with
other people, which I thinkreally helps you down the line
with all of your other futureendeavors, right.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (06:56):
Yeah, I think so you make those connections
and a lot of those are lifelongconnections and some of those
you won't see or speak to eachother.
You know, technology does helpwith that now, but I'll run in.
I just had a former teammate ofmine reach out and they're like
, oh, I met, like I met peoplethat knew your family and I was
like weird, I haven't heard fromyou in like you know, 10 plus
years.
(07:17):
And so, you know, you justbecome a family and and the
hockey world is very small anduh, yeah, you, just you can
maintain those connections andeven though you don't see each
other all the time, so it'sreally nice to have been part of
that.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (07:29):
Yeah, that is really cool and okay.
So when you were you got thescholarship, you were in Madison
going to school.
Did you get your educationdegree there?
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (07:41):
No, I didn't.
So you know, when I was there,I think it's one thing to be a
student but it's another to belike a student athlete, and and
by that I should say, like youknow, student definitely comes
first and you know, during thetime that I was there.
So it's a little bit different.
In the states it's it's fouryears that you can play.
Five is Canadian.
That usually they honour, youknow, those five years for you,
(08:04):
depending on how your journeygoes.
But for me it was only fouryears that I played and I was
able to not have to red shirt oranything, despite some injuries
that kind of happened at greattimes and I didn't have to miss
really any of the season or bulkof the season.
But during that time, yeah, Iwas able to kind of try to
figure out what I really reallydid want to do.
And I am a person who I wouldsay I'm a continual learner and
(08:28):
I just want I love learning andmore than anything, I love, you
know, opportunities andexperiences that I have.
I want to like share those withother people, I want to talk to
them, I want to grow from that,and so, yeah, I was able to
throw around some differentideas, but I think being a
student athlete was challengingbecause we were gone a lot of
the time.
We were traveling to playhockey, we were, you know,
(08:50):
missing class time, and so therewere really limited
opportunities, I would say, withlike specific programs that I
might have been interested in.
It was like a very, verydifficult school to get into
when you are a full time studentand that's it.
And so, yes, I take educationseriously, I'm a teacher.
But then it was very importantand we had yeah, we had to
(09:12):
maintain a pretty good GPA tostay on our team and and that
was a goal of ours is to have areally high GPA as a team.
And so I ended up coming awaywith like a BA.
I was kind of I really wantedto do psychology and so I ended
up coming away with like a BA.
I was kind of I really wantedto do psychology and I ended up
having a sociology degree andkind of more like a minor.
We could not double major, so Ihad a sociology degree, not
(09:33):
really sure what I was going todo with that.
And then I had, like I'd takenso many psychology classes and
because I played my four years Iwas done, but my scholarship
honored like a fifth year tosort of finish out any education
that I might have needed.
If you know, something wentsideways or I wasn't able to
take enough classes to maintainyou know a certain amount of
credits.
So during that kind of yearfive I was able to do X and
(09:57):
travel with my former teammatesand I was able to kind of take
more classes.
And so I just kept takingpsychology classes because I
loved psychology.
But then I kind of.
I kind of took a differentroute and I was like I don't
know if this is what I want todo.
So then it opened a whole canof worms.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (10:16):
Yeah, well, it's hard to when you're like
what?
22 or 23 years old and you haveto just literally decide oh,
I'm gonna do this for the restof my life, like that's such a
crazy thing.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (10:35):
We put a lot of pressure on our young adults
to make huge life decisions,right and they're they're young,
right, yes, and we look at yourresume.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (10:39):
Really, I mean, you're a certified
strength and conditioningspecialist.
You're a registered massagetherapist, you're a teacher,
like you, and I should tellpeople here you're a small
business, um, because you doactually have a registered
massage therapy business as well.
So you're a mom, a wife, ateacher and you have your own
small business.
And because I know you andwe're going to talk a lot about
(11:01):
this, you're aspiring to likelydo some more things in the small
business world and thingsyou're passionate about.
So, holy, you've got a fullplate.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (11:13):
I do have a full plate.
Yes, yeah, but I wouldn't wantit any other way, Mackenzie, no,
I get it.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (11:19):
You're like me, it's like people.
What do you do when you'rebored?
I'm like bored I haven't beenbored in like 15 years, because
I always have I just move on tothe next thing.
Or I'm like, oh, I want to dothis, I want to do that, and I
know you're very much the same.
Um, but I do want to just askyou, how do you do everything?
Because I know we've talkedabout this before it's really
(11:41):
hard and it's just multiple.
You have multiple things goingon.
So how do you stay organized,make sure that everything's
running well?
I mean, you're a teacher.
You don't go to school at nineand come home at three and
that's it for teaching, but yourbusiness and your kids.
So how does that work?
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (12:02):
Oh, I think a whole lot of love and support
is how it works.
It definitely is not just me.
I'm extremely blessed.
I, you know, I've been all overthe place.
Like I said, I was in Wisconsinfor a number of years four
years, five years almost andthen I went to Ontario for about
three years and played there alittle bit with Brampton Thunder
(12:22):
and that was.
I don't even think they don'teven have a team anymore.
Obviously things have changedin the women's uh world with
hockey and whatnot.
But, uh, you know, I was thereand then I was back to calgary
and that was that was where wewere until really about three
and a half, four years ago, andthat's when we moved back to
Swift Current.
And you know my plan growing uphere.
I love, I love Swift Current.
It it's a great little city,it's a close knit city, I feel
(12:45):
like it's.
It's a kind of a small townfeel.
You seem to know people, yourun into people all the time and
you know, back to your question, I have a ton of support in my
life and nothing would ever havebeen able to be, you know, done
or accomplished without support, and I mean my parents are here
, my siblings are here, myhusband's family, his parents,
(13:05):
his, his sister is here.
He is here.
Obviously he is a huge, hugesupporter of mine amongst
everybody else.
Even extended family, prettymuch is all here.
So you know, it is a smallcommunity but I have I have a
lot of support and you know myhusband is.
He's a guy that he always saysit's hard for you to say no, but
for him it's hard for him tosay no to me.
(13:26):
He's very supportive, he knowshow I'm wired and thankfully he
is very opposite of me and hereally grounds me and he's very
patient and he understands thatI do have goals and I do have
dreams and I'm not done yet andso it does take some managing
but it does.
We have a lot of love andsupport to help us out along the
way.
So that is kind of how it allhappens and I always say fake it
(13:49):
till you make it.
Some days, some days I'm justlike and you know my students
probably hear it in my voice andsee it in my how hyper I am and
maybe if my hair is combed acertain way but yeah, it's just
all about managing and some daysare worse than others, but you
just get through it.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (14:08):
Oh, I mean, before we even started recording
, just to let the audience know,Bobbi- Jo texts me and she's
like I'm in the waiting room.
I was like, ah, like I wasrunning around trying to do four
other things before we startedrecording and I totally get it
where.
You do also have like thosecrazier times, but then there
are times that that kind of gointo a lull and it's never like
(14:29):
it's, there's nothing happening.
But you do get those moments to, as I say, like catch your
breath, catch up on something orwhatever it happens to be right
.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (14:39):
Absolutely yes.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (14:41):
Yeah, you said there a couple of minutes
ago that you're not done.
And I want to talk a lot,obviously, winnings, about
business, and it's aboutentrepreneurs and how we get
through life and how we get tothe next place we want to go,
and I know that you do haveaspirations to do more in the
(15:03):
entrepreneurial world.
So let's talk about that alittle bit.
And I know one of the thingsyou asked me which I'll maybe
talk about first and then I'mgoing to pass it to you.
But initial steps.
So you have a business idea likewhat do you do first?
And I think that's a questionthat comes out so much, where
people are like I have a reallygood idea, but like I have no
(15:25):
clue what to do, I don't knowwhere to go, I don't know who to
ask, I don't know um, initialstep, right.
So I think that's such a greatquestion, um, because, first of
all, it's such a um, normalthing for people to feel not
many people have an idea.
They're like oh, I have abusiness idea and I'm going to
(15:46):
go talk to this person, that I'mgoing to call this person, and
because most of the time youhave an idea and you're you
don't know how to act on it.
So I think my best advice forthat is kind of what you and I
do a lot of is talking to peoplethat you know that are already
in business, and I always I goto Bobbi- Jo for massage, like
(16:07):
to me they're like our littlebusiness meeting, yeah, because
you're working, because you'regiving me a massage, but we
literally talk about business,basically the whole time, but I
think that's a great place tostart is talking to people.
So I know a lot of times you'llask me a question and I'll be
like well, this is what I woulddo, or this is what I would do,
(16:29):
or this is what I didn't do if Ifaced the same sort of thing.
I think that's a really greatplace to start, and also as
cliche as this sounds, but likeGoogling it, because sometimes
people think I have a great ideaand then they Google it and
they're like oh, 125 otherpeople had the same great idea
and I didn't know it, right.
Yes, so I think, though, you'vemade really great first steps
(16:50):
by like talking to other peoplethat you know, that are in
business, and really being likeokay, this is a maybe, a roadmap
.
Sometimes you don't even knowwhere you want to go.
You just know, okay, I've gotthis first thing.
Now, where am I going and howdo I get there?
So right, and I think that'skind of the best, the best thing
(17:12):
.
So do you have any otherquestions, burning questions on
that kind of realm there ofinitial steps to take?
Or maybe you're past that now,like what do I do now?
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (17:37):
I feel very lucky and blessed and I feel so
grateful for a lot of theopportunities and experiences
that I've had.
And so, just that alone, I'mlike wow, like I've, I've got.
I'm sort of like a sponge and Ireally try to gather
information that's gonna notonly benefit me, but like how
can I pass this information on?
And so, you know, I was verylucky to have a wonderful little
journey in hockey and thatreally, that isn't everything
(17:58):
that I am, but it was a big partof my life and it sort of was
like my identity for a long time.
It's like that's what I did.
But I think, like you know, Ithink about all the skills that
I developed.
You know physical skills, likeon the ice or with the strength
and conditioning, or the mentalside of the game, and there's so
many different like areas thatyou can really branch off into.
And so, for me, I always thinkabout, like how can I give back
(18:21):
to the community, or to women'shockey, or to, you know, a team,
or like my kids are starting toplay, like I'm trying to coach
them, and I feel like, okay,that's good, I'm checking off
that box, but, like you know,like I don't know how to like
legitimize a product or aservice or an idea.
Like, how do you legitimizesomething?
(18:42):
Is it because I feel that I've,I've, I have enough education?
I feel like I have enoughknowledge, but I'm just like no,
what?
Like how do I legitimize thisso that it's like a real thing
and like I can take this in adirection?
Mackenzie Kilshaw (18:57):
Oh, 100%.
And that's also that's so true, Because when human beings,
when you think about yourself ortalk about yourself, we often
minimize things right, like well, is this enough?
Like, is my education enough ordo I have I had enough
experiences?
And I think that, like you said, you've had all of these years
(19:20):
of hockey experience and all ofthe this knowledge and skills to
pass on to people.
I think, just right there,that's legitimate enough.
Like I don't think you need togo and you know.
And education I'm all foreducation.
Clearly you're a teacher,you're all for education.
I've taken courses to I'm justfinishing my Harvard course now
(19:42):
like I've taken courses to makemyself better, really, and to
get more skills.
But I don't think it'ssomething that you necessarily
have to do.
If you have that, it'sfantastic, It'll always be yours
and you can always say you didit.
But you don't need to just keepgetting more education and keep
adding more titles behind yourname to be legitimate.
(20:06):
I think a lot of it is to beauthentic and to be real, and I
know you've done speakingengagements before and lots
about the mental side, a mentalhealth side of sport, and I
think that when you tell yourstory, just like you did at the
beginning here, you tell yourstory, you talk about injury,
right, and maybe that branchesout into how that affected you
(20:27):
with your mental health, andthen you back that up with your
experiences and being authenticand you don't have to say I'm a
doctor in this or a certifiedthis right, because people
aren't coming to you for that.
They're coming to you for youand your authentic, real, true
(20:49):
self and sharing theseexperiences.
And I think that's the mostimportant part when people see
you as authentic and open andreal, it really does make you
legitimate because they trustyou, because you're being you,
and I think that's really one ofthe most important things.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (21:07):
Yeah, I love that.
I often, I often say that tomyself.
Like you know, when I'mteaching my classes to my
students, it's there sometimes,like I'll just admit like I have
more of a background in likesociology and psychology and I'm
thankful and grateful that Ican teach that in the school.
I'm teaching Psychology 20,which is social psychology, and
I'm teaching Psychology 30,which is looking at
(21:28):
developmental psychology, reallyfrom birth to death, and I'm
like so excited and like myclass is just like holy, she is
just something else, and I getreally excited and I tell
experiences and I tell and Itell things that I've gone
through and and I I'm like youguys, are you guys getting this?
Yes, and I'm like think of someexamples and so I'm obviously
(21:49):
like sharing a lot of me and I'mquite vulnerable in the process
, but I think in the, I reallyfeel like that authenticity is
what helps me to be.
You know, have those connectionswith kids and I think, like you
know, even when you think aboutjust being yourself and doing
that, I also wonder like what,if you have this idea, like how
do you keep it safe?
And like how do you keep itlike from not being exposed?
So in those conversations, likeyou said in the beginning, like
(22:12):
talk to people, tell peoplekind of get some information,
pick their brain a little.
But it's like what if I havethis great idea and I mentioned
it to somebody?
And then what if they take thatidea and they spiral it and
make it, you know, like it's?
It's not that I want to protectit, I want to share it, but I
want to do it in a way that islike it is who I am and it is
(22:33):
what I want it is, it is how Iwant to share it.
So I wonder about like keepingthings like sort of safe or not
to expose, because naturally,yes, you want to talk to people,
you want to research, you wantto gather your information, you
want to have sort of a roadmapto like this is where I want to,
this is where I think I want toget and here's how I have to do
it.
And and I always say you know,in that map or in that little,
(22:55):
you know mountain, that I alwayssay like I climb it and I have
these goals, but like yeah, youhave your setbacks and you're
gonna fall down, but like how doyou get back up?
And so I always wonder about,like you know, how much
information do you give peopleand and where do you stop?
Because for me I probably won'tstop.
So I'm going to be likeknocking on all these doors and
I don't want to.
I'm not sure where that reallyends or if that's too like kind
(23:18):
of offside.
Do you know what I mean?
Mackenzie Kilshaw (23:20):
Yeah, no, I know what you're saying.
I mean, I think when you'retalking about ideas, there's a
couple of different answers tothis.
I mean, if you have an idea,okay, first of all, it's all
business centered, because atsome point in time you want to
make money from speaking or, ora program or whatever, it is
right, um, so if it's somethingthat you can actually physically
(23:43):
like trademark, then you couldact, physically, trademark it,
so nobody can steal your thing.
Now, ideas you can't remark anidea like, let's say, you
created a thing, okay, fine, youcan do that.
Um, but ideas are really trickyto protect.
I'll say, but, and they can becopied, copycat.
(24:06):
There's always going to becopycat people that be like well
, I can do that, and then theyjust want to go and do their
thing.
My advice always on that.
And I felt the same way beforeI opened my store.
I'm like I don't want to tellanyone what brands I'm carrying,
because they might just carrythe same brand and then I don't
have that brand.
Or you know, I'm competing,whatever.
But at the end of the day, whatI think really, I realized was
(24:28):
no one's you, so it's, it's notjust your idea of.
Okay, this is what I'm going todo for my business, or this is
what I'm going to think about,or this is what I'm going to.
Whatever it is right at the endof the day, especially when it
it is a business that's reallycentered around yourself and
your experiences.
(24:48):
No one can copy that becauseit's you right.
So they might say, oh, I, Ithink I want to make a business
that's for mental health andsports with kids.
Let's say that's, and you'relike well, that's what I wanted
to do, you know, but it's nevergoing to be the same.
So, even if the premise is thesame, it's never going to be the
(25:10):
same as what you would dobecause you're two individuals,
your experiences are different,your ideas are probably really
different too, and competitionisn't always a bad thing.
Competition actually oftentimeswill make you better.
Right, because you're like okay, now I have someone that's
doing something similar to me,what can I do to stand out?
(25:31):
Or what can I do?
What can I offer my clients orwhoever's going to come to me as
the business in order to bedifferent?
Right to differentiate myself.
And I think that's really whereyou get to the like, the good
part, because when you setyourself apart from everybody
else, it doesn't really matterwhat they're doing, it's really
only matters what you're doing.
(25:52):
So I can't really tell you.
You can like lock that idea upin a safe and no one can get it,
because it can't really happen.
But it's definitely settingyourself apart from everybody
else and I think too, just withbusiness, and I'm the same as
you, I'm a very trusting, open,honest person and I've told oh,
(26:17):
I have this idea.
Somebody comes to me they'relike, oh, you're doing this now,
like so, and so told me, you'redoing this now.
And I'm like, oh, like no, itwas an idea, you know, or I
thought about it, whatever um.
But sometimes I think it's justokay to keep a few things to
ourselves until it's actuallylike gonna happen or you're
(26:38):
gonna proceed with it, becausethen you won't get that maybe
somebody trying to like copycatyou and you don't even end up
doing it, if that makes sense,right, right, and that's hard
because you're like we, we talk,we like talking, clearly, um,
but sometimes oversharing, ifyou want to call it that,
(27:00):
whatever um can be to yourdetriment.
So I mean, but I think really,it's you at the end of the day,
it's you, it's the value thatyou bring.
I always say go ahead and copyme because you're never going to
beat me.
So it's flattering.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (27:15):
Absolutely, I love that.
That's great, yeah, and youkind of mentioned something
about like, definitely, I'm nottrying to hold on to this.
I don't have that many goodideas, but you know I'm not
trying to hold on to it.
But I always wonder like, okay,this could be, you know,
reframing it a littledifferently, so.
So, once you have these ideasand you're kind of like, okay,
I'm not really sure what to door how to take it, and maybe
(27:37):
I've collected some resources.
So, like, what are some steps?
To like, okay, I want to launchthis.
Like, do I launch it toeverybody at once?
That does not seem good.
Or do you try?
You know the trusting peoplelike, hey, Mackenzie, here's my
idea, this is what I'm thinking.
What do you think?
Like, do you kind of get thatfeedback?
(27:57):
How do you?
Where do you go from there?
Because when I think technologyI'm not the best with
technology, I'm glad I figuredthis out today, but I'm a
teacher.
Yes, I, you're.
My students would laugh at melike Mrs D, do you need me to
come up there?
Yes, you do.
I'm sure I'm as good as I needto be.
I'll say that and I could be somuch better.
But you know, like, where doyou go?
(28:18):
Like there's so many platforms,how do you know that?
You're?
You know you got to obviouslyhave an audience, but like, how
do you launch that?
What are some steps?
You're the pro, tell me.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (28:34):
Yeah Well, my first advice is make a business
plan.
And a business plan soundsreally daunting to people, cause
they're like, oh my God, I'mgoing to have to figure out
marketing and finances andeverything.
You don't have to figure thatout day one.
My very first business plan, Ithink.
I did in like four differentlike tries.
Like I'll say tries becausefirst one, if I look back and it
was probably really terriblenow that I've gained all this
experience and knowledge, butreally it's to sit down and look
(28:57):
at your big things.
So like, who are going to be mycustomers?
So like, right, like who, whoam I going to try to sell this
to?
Or who am I going to try to getto come to my business,
whatever it is?
Where am I going to be?
Right, so you're in SwiftCurrent.
Is your business in SwiftCurrent?
(29:19):
Is your business online thatanyone in the world can buy it?
Maybe it's just Canadians thatcan buy it or just Americans.
If you're in the States, it'sfiguring out do you have a
physical location?
Are you mobile?
Do you travel to the places?
Is it online?
And no one ever sees you right?
So I think figuring out reallyyour really your location,
figuring out obviously, financesare something that you have to
figure out, and that's somethingyou have to figure out pretty
(29:41):
soon in because you have to knowhow much things are going to
cost you and you have to knowhow much money, or at least have
an idea how much money, isgoing to come into you, right?
So what you're going to charge,if you're a service, then
you're going to search on whatare other people similar to me
charging.
If you're a product, so ifsomebody's making like a
(30:04):
physical product or wants, likeme with my clothing store, I'm
going to sell a physical item,um, then I have to know, okay,
what are my margins.
So, two times is really a basicthing, right?
So it costs you a dollar to buyit.
You sell it for two dollars,right, then that dollar is your,
is your profit.
So, um, really, those are.
Those are the three things I'dstart with, right?
(30:26):
So who are you selling to?
Where you're selling?
What's your location?
I'll call, call it.
And then your finances.
And then you, I mean you reallyare branching out from there,
right, because are you going tohave employees?
Are you not going to haveemployees?
Is it just you, right?
Who's doing all the fun thingsthat I love doing, like my
bookkeeping and all that.
(30:47):
Absolutely not.
I pay someone to do thatbecause I hate it and I'm not
good.
So double, double negativethere.
But also, like you said, whatplatforms?
Well, once you know who youraudience is, right, so you're
gonna, you're gonna have anideal audience or a target
audience, but within that targetaudience, you're probably going
(31:08):
to have a few differentsegments, right?
Because let's say that you wantto focus on something with kids
in sport, so it's kids, butit's also the kids' parents,
because that's who's going tobring them and pay for it.
Right?
Let's be serious at the end ofthe day, so you actually have
two segments there, so you'regoing to want to think about
(31:29):
those segments.
And then, where are they?
Or how am I going to reach them?
Which gets into your marketing,which is another thing that you
have to do.
But, okay, the parents.
Let's say, the average age ofthese parents is 30 to 45.
Where do they live?
Well, they're probably onFacebook, they're probably on
Instagram, but the kids aretargeting are 10 to 15.
(31:53):
They're probably on TikTok,right?
So, when you're looking atmarketing things like that and
educating, because you need toalso educate your potential
clients.
You're going to look at areaslike that.
Then you have to look at all ofyour operational things.
So, operational things when amI working?
What are my hours?
(32:14):
How am I?
You know I talked aboutbookkeeper.
How am I scheduling things?
Are people phoning me toschedule?
Are they doing a booking linkon calendar?
Am I emailing them, doing awebsite?
How does all that work?
And it sounds like a lot.
It sounds overwhelming.
But I think if you start smallchunks right and you build up
(32:37):
from there and for most peopleit's okay.
If it takes a while, it's okay,like a lot of people are like I
need to make a business planand I got to have it done next
week.
That's really unrealistic,unless you've done a whole bunch
of business plans and you'rejust sitting at a desk doing
business plans.
It's not really realistic and,like I said, your first try at
(32:59):
it's probably not going to bethat great.
But it's one of those thingswhere, as you think about it
more and when I made my veryfirst business plan, I actually
made it as my strategy I waslike this is my business
strategy, this is what I'm goingto do.
So I made it partly to go to abank and get a loan to get money
(33:20):
, but I also made it for myselfto say, okay, where am I going
and how, like, what's the endresult and what is every step
that I need to do to get there?
And I think my business planwas like 79 pages or it was just
like huge, like crazy big, butI had, you know, I had employees
and I had different brands,like I had kind of a more
(33:41):
complex, but it can be simplerthan that too.
Right, depends what you'redoing.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (33:48):
I love it.
79 pages seems like it wouldtake me quite some time.
Good thing for summers off, youknow.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (33:56):
I have to say , though, I had made business
plans before I could go to theCollege of Commerce at that time
.
It's now Edward School ofBusiness.
So I knew what I was doing.
In that sense right, and I knew.
But for myself I thought themore information I have in here,
the better I'm going to do,because the more prepared I am
right.
Also, something I didn't evenmention was competitors.
(34:17):
We kind of talked aboutcompetitors earlier.
But who else is doing somethingsimilar to you, you know?
And if it's a lot of people,things are probably going to be
a little tough.
If it's not that many people,I'm not going to say it's going
to be easier.
But it's kind of two ways maybeit's not such a great idea, or
because no one's doing it, oryou're very niche and your
(34:44):
target is going to be reallysmall.
But once you get into thattarget group of people, you're
going to be their person, right?
So it kind of depends what,what your business is and where
you're going.
But that's where I'd start.
So a five minute long answer.
I would start with a businessplan.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (34:57):
No, I love it and like, where can I just go
online to access a business plan?
I mean, I have done a businessplan before, but just maybe you
have some some insiderinformation to let me know where
the best is to kind of or likea template, right, because
there's I have done a businessplan but there's like there's a
whole bunch out there.
So is there anything that youwould suggest?
(35:18):
Or start with some ideas andthen you know, gather some, some
information, gather theresources that you need, and
then you know kind of piece ittogether that way, or what do
you think?
Mackenzie Kilshaw (35:28):
Yeah, I mean I always tell people Google
because Google is one of thosethings where, like, you can now
listen, you can get down theGoogle rabbit hole.
That it's like you have 98different business plans and you
can't pick.
Um, I think a really smartthing, honestly, if you have an
idea and you're not really sureand you're like okay, I know I
need a business plan, I know Inow need these things, but I
(35:50):
don't actually even know whatI'm supposed to put in it.
In all reality, I would hire aconsultant.
I would pay that little bit ofmoney to hire a business
consultant to talk to, even ifthey don't get them to write
your whole business plan for you, because you need to be
involved in it.
But even if you have to pay themfor a few times to steer you in
(36:12):
the right direction, lots ofthem will have either free
templates or templates that youcan purchase.
You don't necessarily have tobuy it.
Free ones, probably as good, itjust won't likely be as in
depth.
But I would definitely say talkto a business consultant if you
don't have that experience,because you can end up doing a
(36:32):
lot of things that aren't reallygoing to help you or you spend
a lot of time on things thatkind of lead to nowhere, and
you're better off to pay someoneto help you than to go down a
rabbit hole that you should havenever went down in the
beginning.
So that would be my best advice, and you have to think of that
kind of those kinds of things asinvestments into your business,
(36:54):
not just an invoice that I haveto pay Right, because that will
actually help you and you'llactually spend probably less
time on it Because you'll bereally focused, laser focused.
This is what I need to do andthis is what I need to include.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (37:11):
I feel like, because I am a fairly busy
person, like most people are,you know, I always think like
it's all about.
You know, sometimes I think Iwork harder, not always smarter,
but I know, in chatting withyou, during our little business
meetings, massage treatments,and just picking each other's
brain and just talking aboutlife and and business and all of
that, I feel like you knowthere's, there's not enough
(37:32):
hours in the day for me to beable to like, give more of
myself physically, like as faras like I need to be here.
And I need to be here because Ialways feel I already sorry,
feel that I'm kind of juggling,like, like I said, thank
goodness for family and supportand husbands and husband sorry
and all the other things,because you know, right now,
like my kids, my kids play insoccer and I'm like, thank
(37:54):
goodness, you know, I had familyto help out, and so, you know,
sometimes it is about working,like you said, smarter rather
than harder.
And you know, for me I think Ijust need to sort of streamline
my thoughts.
First, because I have a lot ofthem it seems that I have a lot
of different, different ideas,because I get excited, and then,
(38:15):
like you said I'm down thegoogolitis.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (38:17):
I call it when you get googling and you
just get like, yeah, googolitis,and so two hours later and
you're like, oh yeah yeah.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (38:24):
So I do appreciate that, because I think
I think it is so important tostart small and then, obviously,
big bit um, build bigger, asopposed to you know, you have
all of this and then what do youdo with it?
Cause that's how I kind of feelwith most things, I feel quite
overwhelmed.
So you know, talking to you,you've always, like, had a level
head and you're pretty neutral,and I always really appreciate
that.
So so, yeah, thanks, I reallyappreciate all the advice so far
(38:49):
.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (38:50):
You're welcome.
Getting to your question abouthow do I like there's enough
hours in the day, like how do Ido this when I'm already
stretched so thin?
And I think there's a couple ofthings um is setting aside time
like it's like anything, right.
(39:10):
If it's really important to you, you'll make the time to do it.
That's why we all have thoselists of things like this is the
things I need to do, and likethat thing gets bumped to like
next Tuesday and then the Fridayafter that and then whatever,
because you're like I don'treally want to do it, so I'm
just going to push it, kick thecan down the road, sort of thing
.
But I think if you said, okay,every week I want to spend two
(39:34):
hours, like pick a small amountof time to like don't try to say
I'm going to spend 10 hours onit, because you're probably not,
but say, okay, every week Iwant to take two hours and sit
down and work on my businessplan or work on my ideas or
figure out exactly what I wantto do, whatever it happens to be
, and then I would say schedulethose in your schedule.
(39:56):
So put, if you want to just sitdown once for two hours, if you
want to sit down for 30 minutesfour times, if you want to sit
down twice for one hour,whatever, schedule it in your
calendar, your family calendar,whatever you use, keep yourself
organized, because if it's inthere you're more likely to do
it.
The calendar, whatever you use,keep yourself organized,
because if it's in there you'remore likely to do it.
And also, if you do it, likeevery Tuesday night from eight
(40:17):
to nine, I do it you're morelikely to do it, because then
when somebody's like, hey, youwant to do this on Tuesday, like
actually, sorry, I'm bookedbecause I have a commitment
already, right, so it's not likesure, because if it's not in
there, you just be like oh, yeah, free, and then you just never
do it.
Um, and then the other thing Ithink I said before if it takes
you a long time, that's okay,but I also think it's it is
(40:39):
important to give yourself likea timeline where like, and don't
say like, okay, by May 1st, Iwant to have my whole business
planned up, because, likely, ifyou're thinking, okay, that's in
two weeks, it's probably notgoing to happen, but if you say
okay, by may 1st, I want to havemy target audience figured out
and then, okay, by may 15th Iwant to have my location
(41:05):
figured out.
Okay, and then by like June20th because I'm really busy, I
have to give myself more time.
I want to have my financialsworked out, you know, and giving
yourself time but little,bite-sized pieces, instead of
saying I want to have everything, this whole big project,
completed by July 1st, and thenlike it's June 25th and you're
like I've worked for one hour onit because that does happen,
(41:28):
right, um, and then kind of setyourself up for failure before
you have even started, right.
So it's like anything else,just set yourself the time, have
a goal and work towards thatand don't beat yourself up if
you don't get to it, becauseit's one of those things where
(41:49):
sometimes life happens.
Sometimes you, you know, youtake on an extra project at work
, or you're a teacher, you,let's say you, you're like, yeah
, I'm gonna help with track andfield this year and I wasn't
expecting to, and all of asudden that's two nights a week
and right, it's okay, like lifehappens, your ideas will still
be there.
Don't put yourself in so muchof a pressure situation because
(42:12):
you don't want to get where.
You have kind of a negativeidea about it because you want
to be excited and you want tohave enjoyment doing it, because
it's part of the process rightof getting that business working
in the end.
So I think that's really yeah.
Scheduling small, like don'ttry to eat an elephant.
Take small bites right, likeone bite at a time.
(42:34):
You'll get there and I thinkthat's the best way to do it.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (42:39):
Yeah, I think , you know, being a teacher has
its moments and I love teaching,and so we were saying before,
like when we do this podcast, Idon't want people to think
you're quitting teaching becauseI'm not.
I'm not quitting teaching, I dolove teaching.
I think I will be a teacher mywhole life because I do love
teaching.
But you know, you just thinkabout, you know, what gosh
(42:59):
inflation these days and and howam I going to support my kids?
You know, you know they'reyounger now, but I, I always
think about that and and youknow, sometimes I I say to
myself, am I giving all that Ican?
I, I am trying my best, but isthere more that I can give?
And maybe work a little bitsmarter and not necessarily
always have to be somewhere, bututilize some of the experiences
(43:20):
and opportunities that I had,have had and, uh, you know,
maybe spread the love.
You know what I mean.
So that's kind of where I'm atand I I might come up with a
business plan and maybe I shareit with you and you're like no
bad direction and I'm okay withthat.
I think that's.
That's something that in mylife I have.
I have had a lot of, you know,you get criticized a little bit
and you get that, thatconstructive feedback, and and
(43:44):
that is never a bad thing.
I think that's really how welike learning grows.
So you know, it probably won'thappen, like you said the first
time where I nailed it.
It's like probably won't, but Iyeah, I think I think it's
right.
It's just about little piecesand carving out that time.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (43:59):
So yeah, exactly, and that will help you
get there, because you do have alife, you do have a job, you do
have a family, like everything,and as any entrepreneur or
small business person, we're allfaced with those same things,
right?
So let it come as it does, buttry to stay on track.
If that, if that you know andyou'll get there, you will get
(44:23):
there, for sure.
All of your experiences you'vehad so many do you have a most
important lesson, whether it'sfrom your small business or just
life in general, that you'relike?
Everyone needs to know this.
I learned it and everyone needsto know it.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (44:38):
Oh gosh, I probably have so many cliche
ones, but I think one thing thatreally I struggled with young
was worrying about things that Icouldn't control.
And I think when you and I'llcall myself a former high level
elite athlete at one point in mylife many years ago, when I
(44:59):
felt that, you know, a lot of abulk of my day was spent
physically training, working out, getting my body prepared, but
also like, mentally, strugglingwith, you know, injury,
struggling with you know thedistractions, struggling with
the pressure.
There's a ton with you knowinjury, struggling with you know
the distraction, strugglingwith the pressure.
There's a ton that you know.
When I was done playing and Ihad my injuries to sort of be
(45:20):
like, okay, my body is just, I'mready to be done.
But you know, and mentally Iwas, I was tired because of that
, but I would say my, my bestpiece of advice was always like,
yes, believe in yourself.
And yes, like, work hard andalways be, you know, a person
that they have to considersaying like, if they're gonna
like, let me go, or if they'regonna say no to me, they better
(45:43):
have to think hard about it.
But, that said, there's so manythings in your control that
that you can control, but it'sit's often the distraction of
worrying about what's not in ourcontrol, and so I would say,
focus on the things that are inyour control.
For me, that has really stuck toclose to my heart and I think
you know we're hard on ourselves.
We're we're creatures of likehabit and we're creatures of
(46:06):
just like negativity.
Sometimes we take all that.
We won't remember all theamazing things that we've done,
but we'll remember those one ortwo things that, just like
that'll wreck our day if we, ifwe choose to let it Right.
And so I have to remind myselfof it as well of just like
controlling everything that youcan and and my life I'm.
I'm sort of like, you know, I'm,I'm a wife and I'm a mom and
(46:26):
I'm all of these things a familymember and hopefully a good
friend, and I'm these things.
And then I get to school andI'm like Kate, career wise, I'm
focusing on what is now andbeing present in where I am
right now as a teacher.
And you know, I make mistakesall day long and I laugh about
them and sometimes I kind oflike pull my hair out about them
and you know, in the end Ithink people see like how
(46:46):
authentic and how true you are.
If you really care aboutsomething and if you control as
much as you can, it's gonnahopefully work out in your favor
.
So I would say, just worryingabout what you can't control,
that would be good, A good thing.
That kind of I've held close tome.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (47:01):
I agree, and I only learned that lesson, like
five years ago.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (47:05):
I think it was.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (47:05):
COVID.
Honestly I was like wow, can'tcontrol this.
Gotta, let it go, let thatweigh on you, there's nothing
you can do about it and it'seating you right.
A lot like so, yeah, um, isthere anything you wish you had
known or something that youcould tell your younger self?
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (47:24):
Oh, these are good questions.
Uh, you know what I think.
You know my mom.
When I was young, my parentsalways, like they believed fully
in everything that that I did,and I really think that they
felt that way about my brotherand sister.
They tried to support us inwhatever it was that we were
passionate about.
But I think you know, believingin yourself.
So I remember my mom giving methis poem and a few years back I
(47:47):
had to.
I was, I was lucky enough tospeak at the comp here where I
went to school in Swift Current.
Didn't graduate here because Iwas lucky enough to speak at the
comp here where I went toschool in Swift Current.
Didn't graduate here because Iwas in Notre Dame and I
graduated there.
But you know, I recited thepoem because I memorized it when
I was young and I still, Icould still recite it.
But it's all about, like, yes,controlling what you can, but
like if you don't believe inyourself, it doesn't matter if
(48:08):
every single person in the roombelieves in what you can do.
You're never going to get towhere you need to go if you
don't fully commit and believein yourself.
And so for me that's like soimportant.
And so, when I think about allthe things that I feel like I
get excited about, I think about, like, if I really want to do
something and for like peoplethat are like listening, if you
(48:29):
want to do something and you'vesaid it to me because if you
want to do it, you can do it andso I really think, if you
believe in yourself and you have, you know, something that you
feel passionate about, I thinkthat that is going to supersede
everything.
And in my you know journey,there's been times where I
doubted myself and I didn'tthink that I could do it, and
there was just that tiny ounceor a second that I felt that way
(48:52):
and bam, like it's likesomething bad would happen
because of that negative thought.
You know that thought processthat entered my mind.
And so it is about like reallyfeeling, feeling strongly about
who you are and what you have tooffer.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (49:05):
Sometimes, for sure, and I think too, like
you just said, something badhappened.
Sometimes, if you're in thatnegative headspace, nothing bad
even happens.
You just see that, or?
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (49:17):
You see right .
Mackenzie Kilshaw (49:18):
Yeah.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (49:19):
Yeah, you feel it.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (49:21):
Yes, right, and you're almost looking for it
where, when you're in thepositive, well it's.
I mean, glass half full, glasshalf empty, right, when you see
the positive of things, there'smore positive things.
Law of attraction yeah, empty,right we're.
When you see the positive ofthings, there's more positive
things.
Law of attraction yeah,absolutely and honestly.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (49:36):
When things are going well, oh sorry, I was
gonna say when things are goingwell though it's so easy to it's
so easy to be happy, but thenit's like your true character
test is when things don't sosorry.
I thought, well, that's true.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (49:48):
No, no, you're good.
That's the thing.
That's the thing with businessand entrepreneurship and
everything else.
There's highs and lows, andwe've all gotten through the
lows right.
So if you just look at what'sgood and you keep going or, like
you said, that little bit ofyou, that fire in you, you will
get there and you will figure itout.
And if you need help along theway, that's okay.
(50:10):
We're all human.
We don't know.
I'm starting a new endeavor.
When people listen to this,I'll be a few weeks in.
I'm going to be lecturing atthe University of Saskatchewan
as a sessional lecturer.
I'm so excited.
I'm also terrified because it'sa new experience and I think
that's just human nature, right?
I think the day, when the daycomes, it's going be fantastic
(50:31):
and I'm going to love it.
I guess, check in then because,well, I will love it.
But you know, it's just it's.
It's scary, it's fear and weall have that, um, but at the
end of the day, that experienceis going to outweigh any of that
fear and negativity.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (50:48):
So well, you're going to do amazing.
Can't wait to hear about it.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (50:52):
Thank you.
I know one of my friends islike can I video in and watch?
I'm like, absolutely not.
This is for students only.
Well, it'll be fun to share myexperiences.
Yeah, it'll be fun to share myexperiences with the next group
of people, right?
So I'm really looking forwardto that.
Um, why would you, if people dowant to learn, learn more, more
about you, or maybe send you amessage or something, where is
(51:15):
the best place for them to findyou?
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (51:17):
Oh, gosh, I am on Facebook.
I should know this.
I am on Facebook.
Uh, I'm a little bit old school, I do.
I do have Instagram, but likeI'm not on these things a lot,
so we might have to like getinto that.
I mean, I can't give my phonenumber I don't know if you
suggest that, but probably emailIf anybody wants to drop me an
email.
I'm pretty savvy on the emailso they can message the podcast.
(51:40):
Yeah.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (51:41):
Yeah, maybe that they can message the
podcast and I can get you themessage and get it back to them.
Yes, because there's alwayspeople that reach out with
questions.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (51:48):
Yes, and it's not that I don't like social
media.
I just sometimes I have to takea break and sometimes there's
too much up here where I'm likeI just get it, I just gotta be.
Yeah, it's probably a very bigweakness of mine, but, yeah,
reach out to Mackenzie or thepodcast and and uh, yeah, if you
have any questions, for sure Iam able to also thank you so
that they can yeah, can get ahold of you if they want, and I
(52:10):
can send you some of myinformation after.
Well, I can send you probably myinformation after.
I don't know if that's helpfuland you can post it.
I don't know, or I can post itand I'll tag you.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (52:20):
I'll tag you.
People can find you.
Follow us on Instagram andFacebook.
much for being on.
You were a great guest.
I loved answering yourquestions.
I hope that helped you and toeverybody listening.
Thank you for tuning in againand we'll see you in the next
episode.
Thanks for listening to Winning.
Be sure to subscribe to get allof our new episodes.
If you enjoyed this episode andyou'd like to help support the
(52:42):
podcast, please share it withothers, post about it on social
media and leave a rating andreview wherever you listen to
Winning.
To catch all of the latest fromus, you can follow Winning
Podcast on Instagram a winningunderscore podcast, facebook at
Winning Podcast and on Twitterat Winning Pod.
Winning was created and isproduced by me, mackenzie
(53:06):
Kilshaw Music, created by SummerFurby, editing by Seth
Armstrong.
Special thanks to Shauna Fosterfor voicing our opening and, of
course, a huge thank you tothis episode's guest.
Thanks again for listening andI'll see you on the next episode
.
Winning will help you learn the hard lessons the
easy way, with guidance fromcelebrated entrepreneurs and
business leaders.
It's fun, it's informative,it's Winning.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (00:31):
Hello, welcome to Winning.
I'm your host, MackenzieKilshaw, and today's guest is
How are you today?
Fabulous, Thank you.
Awesome.
So Bobbi- Jo and I are friends.
She is someone I really admire.
She's a retired member ofCanada's national women's ice
hockey team.
She's a two-time NCAA divisionone national champion, a former
(00:55):
RBC Olympian I don't even likethe word former because I feel
like if you were an RBC Olympian, you still are.
I'm just going to say thatshe's a certified strength and
conditioning specialist, aregistered massage therapist and
a high school teacher.
That is a big resume, Bobbi- Jo.
We are friends.
I know a lot about you, butplease tell the audience a
little bit more about yourself.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (01:18):
Goodness, I am very long winded, so I will
do my best.
Yeah, you kind of just hit it.
Those are probably myhighlights of my life.
I would say, first and foremost, I am a mom and a wife and I
feel that I have so many thingsgoing on in my life.
So, born and raised in SwiftCurrent, Saskatchewan, and, yeah
(01:39):
, I've kind of come and gone andI've been all over the world
and traveled and I feel likeI've had a pretty darn good life
and so it's so amazing to behere.
Thank you for having me.
I love to talk, and so doesMackenzie, and that's why we're
friends, I think mostly.
But I'm looking forward to thisand just talking business, yeah
.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (01:58):
Yeah, we literally said like we're gonna
have to keep this like on atimeline because otherwise this
episode will be about threehours long.
Um, let's start from thebeginning of what we talked
about, because hockey is areally big part of your life,
still is, um, definitely was uma few years back.
As I said, former Olympian.
I still think you, you stillare an Olympian, um, but why
(02:21):
don't you talk a little bitabout kind of your life before
now and really that role ofhockey in your life and kind of
where it took you?
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (02:32):
Okay, so I'm like I said, I grew up in Swift
Current, Saskatchewan, sothere's not, there's not a lot
happening here.
You got to keep yourself busy.
I had a very supportive parents, so I have I parents here in
town and I'm the oldest of three, so I have a brother and a
sister and we were all prettymuch involved in sports at a
young age and any activity thatwould probably keep us busy.
(02:54):
And so I started skating youngand playing hockey.
When I was seven and thisreally will date me because I am
an old lady I was one of thefirst to play hockey in Swift
Current.
I played with the boys.
I grew up playing with the boys.
There was really no teams andnowhere for me to play growing
up, and so I just kept reallybusy doing that and loved the
(03:14):
game and just loved theopportunity being able to play
sports.
I will say a little bit in that,like I had a lot of anxiety
growing up I still do I'm kindof like an anxious person and
had a lot of fear of failure andI think school for me was
always a struggle and achallenge.
So when people hear that I'm ateacher, they think it's
(03:34):
hilarious because they're like,well, you didn't really love
school and I didn't.
I struggled, and so I thinksport and activity and really
anything that I did, it kind ofit grounded me, it made me feel
calm, it made me have fun, but,like the things that you develop
with sport, with like being ateammate and, you know, having
that accountability and that andbeing dedicated to things, I
(03:57):
feel like that solidified a lotof good habits in my life and so
, yes, I could talk and talk,but basically I grew up here, I
moved away when I was 16.
And I played in Notre Dame forthe Athenbury College of Notre
Dame and I was there for mygrade 11 and 12 years and, lucky
, I was very lucky to receive ascholarship, and so that took me
another 35, 30 hours away toMadison, Wisconsin, where I was
(04:22):
able to do something that I loveto do daily and get my
education paid for, and so lifewas pretty good up to that point
.
At that same time, I was ableto be recognized amongst many in
Canada for the under 22 team atthe time.
Now their programs have changeda little bit, but I played four
years from 18 to 22 with thewomen's kind of under 22
(04:44):
national team and was able totravel all over Europe and
Canada and a little bit in theStates, obviously, with playing
at Wisconsin and just had someamazing, incredible experiences
and I can say I met amazingpeople.
I was able to play hockey andjust enjoy a pretty cool journey
through that.
And then I did jump and Ibounced around with the national
team.
So you did mention Olympian andI will correct you cool journey
through that.
And then I did jump and Ibounced around with the national
(05:05):
team.
So you did mention Olympian andI will correct you I was close,
I was very close to going tothe Olympics, I would say, and
maybe not even getting there,just being in that.
I would say I was considered asone of those potential hopefuls.
So an Olympic hopeful is what Iwould consider myself and who
knows what would have happenedin the end.
But unfortunately I enduredsome pretty big injuries.
(05:31):
I had bilateral reconstructiveshoulder surgery rate prior kind
of to 2010 Olympics and so youknow, wasn't able to even have
an opportunity to centralize andonce again, that's that's who
knows what would have happenedthrough that.
But a lot of those players Iwas very lucky to be able to
play with the best of the bestwith Canada and the US, and so
that was pretty awesome.
And then, you know, anotherfour years went down and 2014
(05:53):
came along and I had I hadundergone quite a few knee
surgeries.
So I've had four in total kneereconstructions and that really
sidelined me for good.
And yeah, that's my life story.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (06:03):
That's basically what hockey, my
playing career, kind of how thatended for me yeah, I think it's
so unfortunate when you hearthat injury right, because you
trained so hard and you work.
Literally you started to playhockey in your seven, you work,
I.
And when you're seven, I meanactually you probably did think
you're going to the Olympics,then let's be serious.
But yeah, when you're probably,um, I mean actually you
(06:24):
probably did think you weregoing to the Olympics, then
let's be serious.
But when you're probably, butyou know, you worked your whole
like adolescent life and thenearly adulthood for that and it
is really sad.
But, like you said, you stillcame away with those
relationships and that networkof people and being in that
system.
And I think you really hit alot when you said with sports
(06:46):
you develop that team mentalityand being able to work with
other people, which I thinkreally helps you down the line
with all of your other futureendeavors, right.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (06:56):
Yeah, I think so you make those connections
and a lot of those are lifelongconnections and some of those
you won't see or speak to eachother.
You know, technology does helpwith that now, but I'll run in.
I just had a former teammate ofmine reach out and they're like
, oh, I met, like I met peoplethat knew your family and I was
like weird, I haven't heard fromyou in like you know, 10 plus
years.
(07:17):
And so, you know, you justbecome a family and and the
hockey world is very small anduh, yeah, you, just you can
maintain those connections andeven though you don't see each
other all the time, so it'sreally nice to have been part of
that.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (07:29):
Yeah, that is really cool and okay.
So when you were you got thescholarship, you were in Madison
going to school.
Did you get your educationdegree there?
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (07:41):
No, I didn't.
So you know, when I was there,I think it's one thing to be a
student but it's another to belike a student athlete, and and
by that I should say, like youknow, student definitely comes
first and you know, during thetime that I was there.
So it's a little bit different.
In the states it's it's fouryears that you can play.
Five is Canadian.
That usually they honour, youknow, those five years for you,
(08:04):
depending on how your journeygoes.
But for me it was only fouryears that I played and I was
able to not have to red shirt oranything, despite some injuries
that kind of happened at greattimes and I didn't have to miss
really any of the season or bulkof the season.
But during that time, yeah, Iwas able to kind of try to
figure out what I really reallydid want to do.
And I am a person who I wouldsay I'm a continual learner and
(08:28):
I just want I love learning andmore than anything, I love, you
know, opportunities andexperiences that I have.
I want to like share those withother people, I want to talk to
them, I want to grow from that,and so, yeah, I was able to
throw around some differentideas, but I think being a
student athlete was challengingbecause we were gone a lot of
the time.
We were traveling to playhockey, we were, you know,
(08:50):
missing class time, and so therewere really limited
opportunities, I would say, withlike specific programs that I
might have been interested in.
It was like a very, verydifficult school to get into
when you are a full time studentand that's it.
And so, yes, I take educationseriously, I'm a teacher.
But then it was very importantand we had yeah, we had to
(09:12):
maintain a pretty good GPA tostay on our team and and that
was a goal of ours is to have areally high GPA as a team.
And so I ended up coming awaywith like a BA.
I was kind of I really wantedto do psychology and so I ended
up coming away with like a BA.
I was kind of I really wantedto do psychology and I ended up
having a sociology degree andkind of more like a minor.
We could not double major, so Ihad a sociology degree, not
(09:33):
really sure what I was going todo with that.
And then I had, like I'd takenso many psychology classes and
because I played my four years Iwas done, but my scholarship
honored like a fifth year tosort of finish out any education
that I might have needed.
If you know, something wentsideways or I wasn't able to
take enough classes to maintainyou know a certain amount of
credits.
So during that kind of yearfive I was able to do X and
(09:57):
travel with my former teammatesand I was able to kind of take
more classes.
And so I just kept takingpsychology classes because I
loved psychology.
But then I kind of.
I kind of took a differentroute and I was like I don't
know if this is what I want todo.
So then it opened a whole canof worms.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (10:16):
Yeah, well, it's hard to when you're like
what?
22 or 23 years old and you haveto just literally decide oh,
I'm gonna do this for the restof my life, like that's such a
crazy thing.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (10:35):
We put a lot of pressure on our young adults
to make huge life decisions,right and they're they're young,
right, yes, and we look at yourresume.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (10:39):
Really, I mean, you're a certified
strength and conditioningspecialist.
You're a registered massagetherapist, you're a teacher,
like you, and I should tellpeople here you're a small
business, um, because you doactually have a registered
massage therapy business as well.
So you're a mom, a wife, ateacher and you have your own
small business.
And because I know you andwe're going to talk a lot about
(11:01):
this, you're aspiring to likelydo some more things in the small
business world and thingsyou're passionate about.
So, holy, you've got a fullplate.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (11:13):
I do have a full plate.
Yes, yeah, but I wouldn't wantit any other way, Mackenzie, no,
I get it.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (11:19):
You're like me, it's like people.
What do you do when you'rebored?
I'm like bored I haven't beenbored in like 15 years, because
I always have I just move on tothe next thing.
Or I'm like, oh, I want to dothis, I want to do that, and I
know you're very much the same.
Um, but I do want to just askyou, how do you do everything?
Because I know we've talkedabout this before it's really
(11:41):
hard and it's just multiple.
You have multiple things goingon.
So how do you stay organized,make sure that everything's
running well?
I mean, you're a teacher.
You don't go to school at nineand come home at three and
that's it for teaching, but yourbusiness and your kids.
So how does that work?
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (12:02):
Oh, I think a whole lot of love and support
is how it works.
It definitely is not just me.
I'm extremely blessed.
I, you know, I've been all overthe place.
Like I said, I was in Wisconsinfor a number of years four
years, five years almost andthen I went to Ontario for about
three years and played there alittle bit with Brampton Thunder
(12:22):
and that was.
I don't even think they don'teven have a team anymore.
Obviously things have changedin the women's uh world with
hockey and whatnot.
But, uh, you know, I was thereand then I was back to calgary
and that was that was where wewere until really about three
and a half, four years ago, andthat's when we moved back to
Swift Current.
And you know my plan growing uphere.
I love, I love Swift Current.
It it's a great little city,it's a close knit city, I feel
(12:45):
like it's.
It's a kind of a small townfeel.
You seem to know people, yourun into people all the time and
you know, back to your question, I have a ton of support in my
life and nothing would ever havebeen able to be, you know, done
or accomplished without support, and I mean my parents are here
, my siblings are here, myhusband's family, his parents,
(13:05):
his, his sister is here.
He is here.
Obviously he is a huge, hugesupporter of mine amongst
everybody else.
Even extended family, prettymuch is all here.
So you know, it is a smallcommunity but I have I have a
lot of support and you know myhusband is.
He's a guy that he always saysit's hard for you to say no, but
for him it's hard for him tosay no to me.
(13:26):
He's very supportive, he knowshow I'm wired and thankfully he
is very opposite of me and hereally grounds me and he's very
patient and he understands thatI do have goals and I do have
dreams and I'm not done yet andso it does take some managing
but it does.
We have a lot of love andsupport to help us out along the
way.
So that is kind of how it allhappens and I always say fake it
(13:49):
till you make it.
Some days, some days I'm justlike and you know my students
probably hear it in my voice andsee it in my how hyper I am and
maybe if my hair is combed acertain way but yeah, it's just
all about managing and some daysare worse than others, but you
just get through it.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (14:08):
Oh, I mean, before we even started recording
, just to let the audience know,Bobbi- Jo texts me and she's
like I'm in the waiting room.
I was like, ah, like I wasrunning around trying to do four
other things before we startedrecording and I totally get it
where.
You do also have like thosecrazier times, but then there
are times that that kind of gointo a lull and it's never like
(14:29):
it's, there's nothing happening.
But you do get those moments to, as I say, like catch your
breath, catch up on something orwhatever it happens to be right
.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (14:39):
Absolutely yes.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (14:41):
Yeah, you said there a couple of minutes
ago that you're not done.
And I want to talk a lot,obviously, winnings, about
business, and it's aboutentrepreneurs and how we get
through life and how we get tothe next place we want to go,
and I know that you do haveaspirations to do more in the
(15:03):
entrepreneurial world.
So let's talk about that alittle bit.
And I know one of the thingsyou asked me which I'll maybe
talk about first and then I'mgoing to pass it to you.
But initial steps.
So you have a business idea likewhat do you do first?
And I think that's a questionthat comes out so much, where
people are like I have a reallygood idea, but like I have no
(15:25):
clue what to do, I don't knowwhere to go, I don't know who to
ask, I don't know um, initialstep, right.
So I think that's such a greatquestion, um, because, first of
all, it's such a um, normalthing for people to feel not
many people have an idea.
They're like oh, I have abusiness idea and I'm going to
(15:46):
go talk to this person, that I'mgoing to call this person, and
because most of the time youhave an idea and you're you
don't know how to act on it.
So I think my best advice forthat is kind of what you and I
do a lot of is talking to peoplethat you know that are already
in business, and I always I goto Bobbi- Jo for massage, like
(16:07):
to me they're like our littlebusiness meeting, yeah, because
you're working, because you'regiving me a massage, but we
literally talk about business,basically the whole time, but I
think that's a great place tostart is talking to people.
So I know a lot of times you'llask me a question and I'll be
like well, this is what I woulddo, or this is what I would do,
(16:29):
or this is what I didn't do if Ifaced the same sort of thing.
I think that's a really greatplace to start, and also as
cliche as this sounds, but likeGoogling it, because sometimes
people think I have a great ideaand then they Google it and
they're like oh, 125 otherpeople had the same great idea
and I didn't know it, right.
Yes, so I think, though, you'vemade really great first steps
(16:50):
by like talking to other peoplethat you know, that are in
business, and really being likeokay, this is a maybe, a roadmap
.
Sometimes you don't even knowwhere you want to go.
You just know, okay, I've gotthis first thing.
Now, where am I going and howdo I get there?
So right, and I think that'skind of the best, the best thing
(17:12):
.
So do you have any otherquestions, burning questions on
that kind of realm there ofinitial steps to take?
Or maybe you're past that now,like what do I do now?
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (17:37):
I feel very lucky and blessed and I feel so
grateful for a lot of theopportunities and experiences
that I've had.
And so, just that alone, I'mlike wow, like I've, I've got.
I'm sort of like a sponge and Ireally try to gather
information that's gonna notonly benefit me, but like how
can I pass this information on?
And so, you know, I was verylucky to have a wonderful little
journey in hockey and thatreally, that isn't everything
(17:58):
that I am, but it was a big partof my life and it sort of was
like my identity for a long time.
It's like that's what I did.
But I think, like you know, Ithink about all the skills that
I developed.
You know physical skills, likeon the ice or with the strength
and conditioning, or the mentalside of the game, and there's so
many different like areas thatyou can really branch off into.
And so, for me, I always thinkabout, like how can I give back
(18:21):
to the community, or to women'shockey, or to, you know, a team,
or like my kids are starting toplay, like I'm trying to coach
them, and I feel like, okay,that's good, I'm checking off
that box, but, like you know,like I don't know how to like
legitimize a product or aservice or an idea.
Like, how do you legitimizesomething?
(18:42):
Is it because I feel that I've,I've, I have enough education?
I feel like I have enoughknowledge, but I'm just like no,
what?
Like how do I legitimize thisso that it's like a real thing
and like I can take this in adirection?
Mackenzie Kilshaw (18:57):
Oh, 100%.
And that's also that's so true, Because when human beings,
when you think about yourself ortalk about yourself, we often
minimize things right, like well, is this enough?
Like, is my education enough ordo I have I had enough
experiences?
And I think that, like you said, you've had all of these years
(19:20):
of hockey experience and all ofthe this knowledge and skills to
pass on to people.
I think, just right there,that's legitimate enough.
Like I don't think you need togo and you know.
And education I'm all foreducation.
Clearly you're a teacher,you're all for education.
I've taken courses to I'm justfinishing my Harvard course now
(19:42):
like I've taken courses to makemyself better, really, and to
get more skills.
But I don't think it'ssomething that you necessarily
have to do.
If you have that, it'sfantastic, It'll always be yours
and you can always say you didit.
But you don't need to just keepgetting more education and keep
adding more titles behind yourname to be legitimate.
(20:06):
I think a lot of it is to beauthentic and to be real, and I
know you've done speakingengagements before and lots
about the mental side, a mentalhealth side of sport, and I
think that when you tell yourstory, just like you did at the
beginning here, you tell yourstory, you talk about injury,
right, and maybe that branchesout into how that affected you
(20:27):
with your mental health, andthen you back that up with your
experiences and being authenticand you don't have to say I'm a
doctor in this or a certifiedthis right, because people
aren't coming to you for that.
They're coming to you for youand your authentic, real, true
(20:49):
self and sharing theseexperiences.
And I think that's the mostimportant part when people see
you as authentic and open andreal, it really does make you
legitimate because they trustyou, because you're being you,
and I think that's really one ofthe most important things.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (21:07):
Yeah, I love that.
I often, I often say that tomyself.
Like you know, when I'mteaching my classes to my
students, it's there sometimes,like I'll just admit like I have
more of a background in likesociology and psychology and I'm
thankful and grateful that Ican teach that in the school.
I'm teaching Psychology 20,which is social psychology, and
I'm teaching Psychology 30,which is looking at
(21:28):
developmental psychology, reallyfrom birth to death, and I'm
like so excited and like myclass is just like holy, she is
just something else, and I getreally excited and I tell
experiences and I tell and Itell things that I've gone
through and and I I'm like youguys, are you guys getting this?
Yes, and I'm like think of someexamples and so I'm obviously
(21:49):
like sharing a lot of me and I'mquite vulnerable in the process
, but I think in the, I reallyfeel like that authenticity is
what helps me to be.
You know, have those connectionswith kids and I think, like you
know, even when you think aboutjust being yourself and doing
that, I also wonder like what,if you have this idea, like how
do you keep it safe?
And like how do you keep itlike from not being exposed?
So in those conversations, likeyou said in the beginning, like
(22:12):
talk to people, tell peoplekind of get some information,
pick their brain a little.
But it's like what if I havethis great idea and I mentioned
it to somebody?
And then what if they take thatidea and they spiral it and
make it, you know, like it's?
It's not that I want to protectit, I want to share it, but I
want to do it in a way that islike it is who I am and it is
(22:33):
what I want it is, it is how Iwant to share it.
So I wonder about like keepingthings like sort of safe or not
to expose, because naturally,yes, you want to talk to people,
you want to research, you wantto gather your information, you
want to have sort of a roadmapto like this is where I want to,
this is where I think I want toget and here's how I have to do
it.
And and I always say you know,in that map or in that little,
(22:55):
you know mountain, that I alwayssay like I climb it and I have
these goals, but like yeah, youhave your setbacks and you're
gonna fall down, but like how doyou get back up?
And so I always wonder about,like you know, how much
information do you give peopleand and where do you stop?
Because for me I probably won'tstop.
So I'm going to be likeknocking on all these doors and
I don't want to.
I'm not sure where that reallyends or if that's too like kind
(23:18):
of offside.
Do you know what I mean?
Mackenzie Kilshaw (23:20):
Yeah, no, I know what you're saying.
I mean, I think when you'retalking about ideas, there's a
couple of different answers tothis.
I mean, if you have an idea,okay, first of all, it's all
business centered, because atsome point in time you want to
make money from speaking or, ora program or whatever, it is
right, um, so if it's somethingthat you can actually physically
(23:43):
like trademark, then you couldact, physically, trademark it,
so nobody can steal your thing.
Now, ideas you can't remark anidea like, let's say, you
created a thing, okay, fine, youcan do that.
Um, but ideas are really trickyto protect.
I'll say, but, and they can becopied, copycat.
(24:06):
There's always going to becopycat people that be like well
, I can do that, and then theyjust want to go and do their
thing.
My advice always on that.
And I felt the same way beforeI opened my store.
I'm like I don't want to tellanyone what brands I'm carrying,
because they might just carrythe same brand and then I don't
have that brand.
Or you know, I'm competing,whatever.
But at the end of the day, whatI think really, I realized was
(24:28):
no one's you, so it's, it's notjust your idea of.
Okay, this is what I'm going todo for my business, or this is
what I'm going to think about,or this is what I'm going to.
Whatever it is right at the endof the day, especially when it
it is a business that's reallycentered around yourself and
your experiences.
(24:48):
No one can copy that becauseit's you right.
So they might say, oh, I, Ithink I want to make a business
that's for mental health andsports with kids.
Let's say that's, and you'relike well, that's what I wanted
to do, you know, but it's nevergoing to be the same.
So, even if the premise is thesame, it's never going to be the
(25:10):
same as what you would dobecause you're two individuals,
your experiences are different,your ideas are probably really
different too, and competitionisn't always a bad thing.
Competition actually oftentimeswill make you better.
Right, because you're like okay, now I have someone that's
doing something similar to me,what can I do to stand out?
(25:31):
Or what can I do?
What can I offer my clients orwhoever's going to come to me as
the business in order to bedifferent?
Right to differentiate myself.
And I think that's really whereyou get to the like, the good
part, because when you setyourself apart from everybody
else, it doesn't really matterwhat they're doing, it's really
only matters what you're doing.
(25:52):
So I can't really tell you.
You can like lock that idea upin a safe and no one can get it,
because it can't really happen.
But it's definitely settingyourself apart from everybody
else and I think too, just withbusiness, and I'm the same as
you, I'm a very trusting, open,honest person and I've told oh,
(26:17):
I have this idea.
Somebody comes to me they'relike, oh, you're doing this now,
like so, and so told me, you'redoing this now.
And I'm like, oh, like no, itwas an idea, you know, or I
thought about it, whatever um.
But sometimes I think it's justokay to keep a few things to
ourselves until it's actuallylike gonna happen or you're
(26:38):
gonna proceed with it, becausethen you won't get that maybe
somebody trying to like copycatyou and you don't even end up
doing it, if that makes sense,right, right, and that's hard
because you're like we, we talk,we like talking, clearly, um,
but sometimes oversharing, ifyou want to call it that,
(27:00):
whatever um can be to yourdetriment.
So I mean, but I think really,it's you at the end of the day,
it's you, it's the value thatyou bring.
I always say go ahead and copyme because you're never going to
beat me.
So it's flattering.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (27:15):
Absolutely, I love that.
That's great, yeah, and youkind of mentioned something
about like, definitely, I'm nottrying to hold on to this.
I don't have that many goodideas, but you know I'm not
trying to hold on to it.
But I always wonder like, okay,this could be, you know,
reframing it a littledifferently, so.
So, once you have these ideasand you're kind of like, okay,
I'm not really sure what to door how to take it, and maybe
(27:37):
I've collected some resources.
So, like, what are some steps?
To like, okay, I want to launchthis.
Like, do I launch it toeverybody at once?
That does not seem good.
Or do you try?
You know the trusting peoplelike, hey, Mackenzie, here's my
idea, this is what I'm thinking.
What do you think?
Like, do you kind of get thatfeedback?
(27:57):
How do you?
Where do you go from there?
Because when I think technologyI'm not the best with
technology, I'm glad I figuredthis out today, but I'm a
teacher.
Yes, I, you're.
My students would laugh at melike Mrs D, do you need me to
come up there?
Yes, you do.
I'm sure I'm as good as I needto be.
I'll say that and I could be somuch better.
But you know, like, where doyou go?
(28:18):
Like there's so many platforms,how do you know that?
You're?
You know you got to obviouslyhave an audience, but like, how
do you launch that?
What are some steps?
You're the pro, tell me.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (28:34):
Yeah Well, my first advice is make a business
plan.
And a business plan soundsreally daunting to people, cause
they're like, oh my God, I'mgoing to have to figure out
marketing and finances andeverything.
You don't have to figure thatout day one.
My very first business plan, Ithink.
I did in like four differentlike tries.
Like I'll say tries becausefirst one, if I look back and it
was probably really terriblenow that I've gained all this
experience and knowledge, butreally it's to sit down and look
(28:57):
at your big things.
So like, who are going to be mycustomers?
So like, right, like who, whoam I going to try to sell this
to?
Or who am I going to try to getto come to my business,
whatever it is?
Where am I going to be?
Right, so you're in SwiftCurrent.
Is your business in SwiftCurrent?
(29:19):
Is your business online thatanyone in the world can buy it?
Maybe it's just Canadians thatcan buy it or just Americans.
If you're in the States, it'sfiguring out do you have a
physical location?
Are you mobile?
Do you travel to the places?
Is it online?
And no one ever sees you right?
So I think figuring out reallyyour really your location,
figuring out obviously, financesare something that you have to
figure out, and that's somethingyou have to figure out pretty
(29:41):
soon in because you have to knowhow much things are going to
cost you and you have to knowhow much money, or at least have
an idea how much money, isgoing to come into you, right?
So what you're going to charge,if you're a service, then
you're going to search on whatare other people similar to me
charging.
If you're a product, so ifsomebody's making like a
(30:04):
physical product or wants, likeme with my clothing store, I'm
going to sell a physical item,um, then I have to know, okay,
what are my margins.
So, two times is really a basicthing, right?
So it costs you a dollar to buyit.
You sell it for two dollars,right, then that dollar is your,
is your profit.
So, um, really, those are.
Those are the three things I'dstart with, right?
(30:26):
So who are you selling to?
Where you're selling?
What's your location?
I'll call, call it.
And then your finances.
And then you, I mean you reallyare branching out from there,
right, because are you going tohave employees?
Are you not going to haveemployees?
Is it just you, right?
Who's doing all the fun thingsthat I love doing, like my
bookkeeping and all that.
(30:47):
Absolutely not.
I pay someone to do thatbecause I hate it and I'm not
good.
So double, double negativethere.
But also, like you said, whatplatforms?
Well, once you know who youraudience is, right, so you're
gonna, you're gonna have anideal audience or a target
audience, but within that targetaudience, you're probably going
(31:08):
to have a few differentsegments, right?
Because let's say that you wantto focus on something with kids
in sport, so it's kids, butit's also the kids' parents,
because that's who's going tobring them and pay for it.
Right?
Let's be serious at the end ofthe day, so you actually have
two segments there, so you'regoing to want to think about
(31:29):
those segments.
And then, where are they?
Or how am I going to reach them?
Which gets into your marketing,which is another thing that you
have to do.
But, okay, the parents.
Let's say, the average age ofthese parents is 30 to 45.
Where do they live?
Well, they're probably onFacebook, they're probably on
Instagram, but the kids aretargeting are 10 to 15.
(31:53):
They're probably on TikTok,right?
So, when you're looking atmarketing things like that and
educating, because you need toalso educate your potential
clients.
You're going to look at areaslike that.
Then you have to look at all ofyour operational things.
So, operational things when amI working?
What are my hours?
(32:14):
How am I?
You know I talked aboutbookkeeper.
How am I scheduling things?
Are people phoning me toschedule?
Are they doing a booking linkon calendar?
Am I emailing them, doing awebsite?
How does all that work?
And it sounds like a lot.
It sounds overwhelming.
But I think if you start smallchunks right and you build up
(32:37):
from there and for most peopleit's okay.
If it takes a while, it's okay,like a lot of people are like I
need to make a business planand I got to have it done next
week.
That's really unrealistic,unless you've done a whole bunch
of business plans and you'rejust sitting at a desk doing
business plans.
It's not really realistic and,like I said, your first try at
(32:59):
it's probably not going to bethat great.
But it's one of those thingswhere, as you think about it
more and when I made my veryfirst business plan, I actually
made it as my strategy I waslike this is my business
strategy, this is what I'm goingto do.
So I made it partly to go to abank and get a loan to get money
(33:20):
, but I also made it for myselfto say, okay, where am I going
and how, like, what's the endresult and what is every step
that I need to do to get there?
And I think my business planwas like 79 pages or it was just
like huge, like crazy big, butI had, you know, I had employees
and I had different brands,like I had kind of a more
(33:41):
complex, but it can be simplerthan that too.
Right, depends what you'redoing.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (33:48):
I love it.
79 pages seems like it wouldtake me quite some time.
Good thing for summers off, youknow.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (33:56):
I have to say , though, I had made business
plans before I could go to theCollege of Commerce at that time
.
It's now Edward School ofBusiness.
So I knew what I was doing.
In that sense right, and I knew.
But for myself I thought themore information I have in here,
the better I'm going to do,because the more prepared I am
right.
Also, something I didn't evenmention was competitors.
(34:17):
We kind of talked aboutcompetitors earlier.
But who else is doing somethingsimilar to you, you know?
And if it's a lot of people,things are probably going to be
a little tough.
If it's not that many people,I'm not going to say it's going
to be easier.
But it's kind of two ways maybeit's not such a great idea, or
because no one's doing it, oryou're very niche and your
(34:44):
target is going to be reallysmall.
But once you get into thattarget group of people, you're
going to be their person, right?
So it kind of depends what,what your business is and where
you're going.
But that's where I'd start.
So a five minute long answer.
I would start with a businessplan.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (34:57):
No, I love it and like, where can I just go
online to access a business plan?
I mean, I have done a businessplan before, but just maybe you
have some some insiderinformation to let me know where
the best is to kind of or likea template, right, because
there's I have done a businessplan but there's like there's a
whole bunch out there.
So is there anything that youwould suggest?
(35:18):
Or start with some ideas andthen you know, gather some, some
information, gather theresources that you need, and
then you know kind of piece ittogether that way, or what do
you think?
Mackenzie Kilshaw (35:28):
Yeah, I mean I always tell people Google
because Google is one of thosethings where, like, you can now
listen, you can get down theGoogle rabbit hole.
That it's like you have 98different business plans and you
can't pick.
Um, I think a really smartthing, honestly, if you have an
idea and you're not really sureand you're like okay, I know I
need a business plan, I know Inow need these things, but I
(35:50):
don't actually even know whatI'm supposed to put in it.
In all reality, I would hire aconsultant.
I would pay that little bit ofmoney to hire a business
consultant to talk to, even ifthey don't get them to write
your whole business plan for you, because you need to be
involved in it.
But even if you have to pay themfor a few times to steer you in
(36:12):
the right direction, lots ofthem will have either free
templates or templates that youcan purchase.
You don't necessarily have tobuy it.
Free ones, probably as good, itjust won't likely be as in
depth.
But I would definitely say talkto a business consultant if you
don't have that experience,because you can end up doing a
(36:32):
lot of things that aren't reallygoing to help you or you spend
a lot of time on things thatkind of lead to nowhere, and
you're better off to pay someoneto help you than to go down a
rabbit hole that you should havenever went down in the
beginning.
So that would be my best advice, and you have to think of that
kind of those kinds of things asinvestments into your business,
(36:54):
not just an invoice that I haveto pay Right, because that will
actually help you and you'llactually spend probably less
time on it Because you'll bereally focused, laser focused.
This is what I need to do andthis is what I need to include.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (37:11):
I feel like, because I am a fairly busy
person, like most people are,you know, I always think like
it's all about.
You know, sometimes I think Iwork harder, not always smarter,
but I know, in chatting withyou, during our little business
meetings, massage treatments,and just picking each other's
brain and just talking aboutlife and and business and all of
that, I feel like you knowthere's, there's not enough
(37:32):
hours in the day for me to beable to like, give more of
myself physically, like as faras like I need to be here.
And I need to be here because Ialways feel I already sorry,
feel that I'm kind of juggling,like, like I said, thank
goodness for family and supportand husbands and husband sorry
and all the other things,because you know, right now,
like my kids, my kids play insoccer and I'm like, thank
(37:54):
goodness, you know, I had familyto help out, and so, you know,
sometimes it is about working,like you said, smarter rather
than harder.
And you know, for me I think Ijust need to sort of streamline
my thoughts.
First, because I have a lot ofthem it seems that I have a lot
of different, different ideas,because I get excited, and then,
(38:15):
like you said I'm down thegoogolitis.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (38:17):
I call it when you get googling and you
just get like, yeah, googolitis,and so two hours later and
you're like, oh yeah yeah.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (38:24):
So I do appreciate that, because I think
I think it is so important tostart small and then, obviously,
big bit um, build bigger, asopposed to you know, you have
all of this and then what do youdo with it?
Cause that's how I kind of feelwith most things, I feel quite
overwhelmed.
So you know, talking to you,you've always, like, had a level
head and you're pretty neutral,and I always really appreciate
that.
So so, yeah, thanks, I reallyappreciate all the advice so far
(38:49):
.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (38:50):
You're welcome.
Getting to your question abouthow do I like there's enough
hours in the day, like how do Ido this when I'm already
stretched so thin?
And I think there's a couple ofthings um is setting aside time
like it's like anything, right.
(39:10):
If it's really important to you, you'll make the time to do it.
That's why we all have thoselists of things like this is the
things I need to do, and likethat thing gets bumped to like
next Tuesday and then the Fridayafter that and then whatever,
because you're like I don'treally want to do it, so I'm
just going to push it, kick thecan down the road, sort of thing
.
But I think if you said, okay,every week I want to spend two
(39:34):
hours, like pick a small amountof time to like don't try to say
I'm going to spend 10 hours onit, because you're probably not,
but say, okay, every week Iwant to take two hours and sit
down and work on my businessplan or work on my ideas or
figure out exactly what I wantto do, whatever it happens to be
, and then I would say schedulethose in your schedule.
(39:56):
So put, if you want to just sitdown once for two hours, if you
want to sit down for 30 minutesfour times, if you want to sit
down twice for one hour,whatever, schedule it in your
calendar, your family calendar,whatever you use, keep yourself
organized, because if it's inthere you're more likely to do
it.
The calendar, whatever you use,keep yourself organized,
because if it's in there you'remore likely to do it.
And also, if you do it, likeevery Tuesday night from eight
(40:17):
to nine, I do it you're morelikely to do it, because then
when somebody's like, hey, youwant to do this on Tuesday, like
actually, sorry, I'm bookedbecause I have a commitment
already, right, so it's not likesure, because if it's not in
there, you just be like oh, yeah, free, and then you just never
do it.
Um, and then the other thing Ithink I said before if it takes
you a long time, that's okay,but I also think it's it is
(40:39):
important to give yourself likea timeline where like, and don't
say like, okay, by May 1st, Iwant to have my whole business
planned up, because, likely, ifyou're thinking, okay, that's in
two weeks, it's probably notgoing to happen, but if you say
okay, by may 1st, I want to havemy target audience figured out
and then, okay, by may 15th Iwant to have my location
(41:05):
figured out.
Okay, and then by like June20th because I'm really busy, I
have to give myself more time.
I want to have my financialsworked out, you know, and giving
yourself time but little,bite-sized pieces, instead of
saying I want to have everything, this whole big project,
completed by July 1st, and thenlike it's June 25th and you're
like I've worked for one hour onit because that does happen,
(41:28):
right, um, and then kind of setyourself up for failure before
you have even started, right.
So it's like anything else,just set yourself the time, have
a goal and work towards thatand don't beat yourself up if
you don't get to it, becauseit's one of those things where
(41:49):
sometimes life happens.
Sometimes you, you know, youtake on an extra project at work
, or you're a teacher, you,let's say you, you're like, yeah
, I'm gonna help with track andfield this year and I wasn't
expecting to, and all of asudden that's two nights a week
and right, it's okay, like lifehappens, your ideas will still
be there.
Don't put yourself in so muchof a pressure situation because
(42:12):
you don't want to get where.
You have kind of a negativeidea about it because you want
to be excited and you want tohave enjoyment doing it, because
it's part of the process rightof getting that business working
in the end.
So I think that's really yeah.
Scheduling small, like don'ttry to eat an elephant.
Take small bites right, likeone bite at a time.
(42:34):
You'll get there and I thinkthat's the best way to do it.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (42:39):
Yeah, I think , you know, being a teacher has
its moments and I love teaching,and so we were saying before,
like when we do this podcast, Idon't want people to think
you're quitting teaching becauseI'm not.
I'm not quitting teaching, I dolove teaching.
I think I will be a teacher mywhole life because I do love
teaching.
But you know, you just thinkabout, you know, what gosh
(42:59):
inflation these days and and howam I going to support my kids?
You know, you know they'reyounger now, but I, I always
think about that and and youknow, sometimes I I say to
myself, am I giving all that Ican?
I, I am trying my best, but isthere more that I can give?
And maybe work a little bitsmarter and not necessarily
always have to be somewhere, bututilize some of the experiences
(43:20):
and opportunities that I had,have had and, uh, you know,
maybe spread the love.
You know what I mean.
So that's kind of where I'm atand I I might come up with a
business plan and maybe I shareit with you and you're like no
bad direction and I'm okay withthat.
I think that's.
That's something that in mylife I have.
I have had a lot of, you know,you get criticized a little bit
and you get that, thatconstructive feedback, and and
(43:44):
that is never a bad thing.
I think that's really how welike learning grows.
So you know, it probably won'thappen, like you said the first
time where I nailed it.
It's like probably won't, but Iyeah, I think I think it's
right.
It's just about little piecesand carving out that time.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (43:59):
So yeah, exactly, and that will help you
get there, because you do have alife, you do have a job, you do
have a family, like everything,and as any entrepreneur or
small business person, we're allfaced with those same things,
right?
So let it come as it does, buttry to stay on track.
If that, if that you know andyou'll get there, you will get
(44:23):
there, for sure.
All of your experiences you'vehad so many do you have a most
important lesson, whether it'sfrom your small business or just
life in general, that you'relike?
Everyone needs to know this.
I learned it and everyone needsto know it.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (44:38):
Oh gosh, I probably have so many cliche
ones, but I think one thing thatreally I struggled with young
was worrying about things that Icouldn't control.
And I think when you and I'llcall myself a former high level
elite athlete at one point in mylife many years ago, when I
(44:59):
felt that, you know, a lot of abulk of my day was spent
physically training, working out, getting my body prepared, but
also like, mentally, strugglingwith, you know, injury,
struggling with you know thedistractions, struggling with
the pressure.
There's a ton with you knowinjury, struggling with you know
the distraction, strugglingwith the pressure.
There's a ton that you know.
When I was done playing and Ihad my injuries to sort of be
(45:20):
like, okay, my body is just, I'mready to be done.
But you know, and mentally Iwas, I was tired because of that
, but I would say my, my bestpiece of advice was always like,
yes, believe in yourself.
And yes, like, work hard andalways be, you know, a person
that they have to considersaying like, if they're gonna
like, let me go, or if they'regonna say no to me, they better
(45:43):
have to think hard about it.
But, that said, there's so manythings in your control that
that you can control, but it'sit's often the distraction of
worrying about what's not in ourcontrol, and so I would say,
focus on the things that are inyour control.
For me, that has really stuck toclose to my heart and I think
you know we're hard on ourselves.
We're we're creatures of likehabit and we're creatures of
(46:06):
just like negativity.
Sometimes we take all that.
We won't remember all theamazing things that we've done,
but we'll remember those one ortwo things that, just like
that'll wreck our day if we, ifwe choose to let it Right.
And so I have to remind myselfof it as well of just like
controlling everything that youcan and and my life I'm.
I'm sort of like, you know, I'm,I'm a wife and I'm a mom and
(46:26):
I'm all of these things a familymember and hopefully a good
friend, and I'm these things.
And then I get to school andI'm like Kate, career wise, I'm
focusing on what is now andbeing present in where I am
right now as a teacher.
And you know, I make mistakesall day long and I laugh about
them and sometimes I kind oflike pull my hair out about them
and you know, in the end Ithink people see like how
(46:46):
authentic and how true you are.
If you really care aboutsomething and if you control as
much as you can, it's gonnahopefully work out in your favor
.
So I would say, just worryingabout what you can't control,
that would be good, A good thing.
That kind of I've held close tome.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (47:01):
I agree, and I only learned that lesson, like
five years ago.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (47:05):
I think it was.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (47:05):
COVID.
Honestly I was like wow, can'tcontrol this.
Gotta, let it go, let thatweigh on you, there's nothing
you can do about it and it'seating you right.
A lot like so, yeah, um, isthere anything you wish you had
known or something that youcould tell your younger self?
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (47:24):
Oh, these are good questions.
Uh, you know what I think.
You know my mom.
When I was young, my parentsalways, like they believed fully
in everything that that I did,and I really think that they
felt that way about my brotherand sister.
They tried to support us inwhatever it was that we were
passionate about.
But I think you know, believingin yourself.
So I remember my mom giving methis poem and a few years back I
(47:47):
had to.
I was, I was lucky enough tospeak at the comp here where I
went to school in Swift Current.
Didn't graduate here because Iwas lucky enough to speak at the
comp here where I went toschool in Swift Current.
Didn't graduate here because Iwas in Notre Dame and I
graduated there.
But you know, I recited thepoem because I memorized it when
I was young and I still, Icould still recite it.
But it's all about, like, yes,controlling what you can, but
like if you don't believe inyourself, it doesn't matter if
(48:08):
every single person in the roombelieves in what you can do.
You're never going to get towhere you need to go if you
don't fully commit and believein yourself.
And so for me that's like soimportant.
And so, when I think about allthe things that I feel like I
get excited about, I think about, like, if I really want to do
something and for like peoplethat are like listening, if you
(48:29):
want to do something and you'vesaid it to me because if you
want to do it, you can do it andso I really think, if you
believe in yourself and you have, you know, something that you
feel passionate about, I thinkthat that is going to supersede
everything.
And in my you know journey,there's been times where I
doubted myself and I didn'tthink that I could do it, and
there was just that tiny ounceor a second that I felt that way
(48:52):
and bam, like it's likesomething bad would happen
because of that negative thought.
You know that thought processthat entered my mind.
And so it is about like reallyfeeling, feeling strongly about
who you are and what you have tooffer.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (49:05):
Sometimes, for sure, and I think too, like
you just said, something badhappened.
Sometimes, if you're in thatnegative headspace, nothing bad
even happens.
You just see that, or?
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (49:17):
You see right .
Mackenzie Kilshaw (49:18):
Yeah.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (49:19):
Yeah, you feel it.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (49:21):
Yes, right, and you're almost looking for it
where, when you're in thepositive, well it's.
I mean, glass half full, glasshalf empty, right, when you see
the positive of things, there'smore positive things.
Law of attraction yeah, empty,right we're.
When you see the positive ofthings, there's more positive
things.
Law of attraction yeah,absolutely and honestly.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (49:36):
When things are going well, oh sorry, I was
gonna say when things are goingwell though it's so easy to it's
so easy to be happy, but thenit's like your true character
test is when things don't sosorry.
I thought, well, that's true.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (49:48):
No, no, you're good.
That's the thing.
That's the thing with businessand entrepreneurship and
everything else.
There's highs and lows, andwe've all gotten through the
lows right.
So if you just look at what'sgood and you keep going or, like
you said, that little bit ofyou, that fire in you, you will
get there and you will figure itout.
And if you need help along theway, that's okay.
(50:10):
We're all human.
We don't know.
I'm starting a new endeavor.
When people listen to this,I'll be a few weeks in.
I'm going to be lecturing atthe University of Saskatchewan
as a sessional lecturer.
I'm so excited.
I'm also terrified because it'sa new experience and I think
that's just human nature, right?
I think the day, when the daycomes, it's going be fantastic
(50:31):
and I'm going to love it.
I guess, check in then because,well, I will love it.
But you know, it's just it's.
It's scary, it's fear and weall have that, um, but at the
end of the day, that experienceis going to outweigh any of that
fear and negativity.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (50:48):
So well, you're going to do amazing.
Can't wait to hear about it.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (50:52):
Thank you.
I know one of my friends islike can I video in and watch?
I'm like, absolutely not.
This is for students only.
Well, it'll be fun to share myexperiences.
Yeah, it'll be fun to share myexperiences with the next group
of people, right?
So I'm really looking forwardto that.
Um, why would you, if people dowant to learn, learn more, more
about you, or maybe send you amessage or something, where is
(51:15):
the best place for them to findyou?
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (51:17):
Oh, gosh, I am on Facebook.
I should know this.
I am on Facebook.
Uh, I'm a little bit old school, I do.
I do have Instagram, but likeI'm not on these things a lot,
so we might have to like getinto that.
I mean, I can't give my phonenumber I don't know if you
suggest that, but probably emailIf anybody wants to drop me an
email.
I'm pretty savvy on the emailso they can message the podcast.
(51:40):
Yeah.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (51:41):
Yeah, maybe that they can message the
podcast and I can get you themessage and get it back to them.
Yes, because there's alwayspeople that reach out with
questions.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault (51:48):
Yes, and it's not that I don't like social
media.
I just sometimes I have to takea break and sometimes there's
too much up here where I'm likeI just get it, I just gotta be.
Yeah, it's probably a very bigweakness of mine, but, yeah,
reach out to Mackenzie or thepodcast and and uh, yeah, if you
have any questions, for sure Iam able to also thank you so
that they can yeah, can get ahold of you if they want, and I
(52:10):
can send you some of myinformation after.
Well, I can send you probably myinformation after.
I don't know if that's helpfuland you can post it.
I don't know, or I can post itand I'll tag you.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (52:20):
I'll tag you.
People can find you.
Follow us on Instagram andFacebook.
much for being on.
You were a great guest.
I loved answering yourquestions.
I hope that helped you and toeverybody listening.
Thank you for tuning in againand we'll see you in the next
episode.
Thanks for listening to Winning.
Be sure to subscribe to get allof our new episodes.
If you enjoyed this episode andyou'd like to help support the
(52:42):
podcast, please share it withothers, post about it on social
media and leave a rating andreview wherever you listen to
Winning.
To catch all of the latest fromus, you can follow Winning
Podcast on Instagram a winningunderscore podcast, facebook at
Winning Podcast and on Twitterat Winning Pod.
Winning was created and isproduced by me, mackenzie
(53:06):
Kilshaw Music, created by SummerFurby, editing by Seth
Armstrong.
Special thanks to Shauna Fosterfor voicing our opening and, of
course, a huge thank you tothis episode's guest.
Thanks again for listening andI'll see you on the next episode
.
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