April 2, 2024 • 49 mins
Embark on a transformative journey with Mackenzie Kilshaw and the enchanting Meg Calvin, as they weave tales of resilience and creativity in the face of life's unpredictable narratives. From Meg's Southern Belle charm to the poignant discovery of her biological father, we uncover how her past has shaped a future brimming with entrepreneurial gusto. Listening to her story, you'll find yourself rooted in the rich soil of community, spirituality, and the unyielding drive that powers the hearts of visionaries.
Step into the world of storytelling with authenticity, where your narrative can become the cornerstone of a thriving business venture. We navigate the landscape of business growth through the lens of literature, revealing how books and audio content can transcend mere words on a page to become powerful lead magnets. Meg and I also touch upon the delicate art of finding your voice, the pure joy of genuine expression, and the strategic deployment of creativity to captivate and inspire both readers and listeners alike.
Closing the chapter, wisdom flows as Meg Calvin joins the conversation, sprinkling her marketing mastery into the mix. Authors and entrepreneurs alike stand to gain a wealth of knowledge on how to market with pleasure and purpose. You'll leave this session equipped with the courage to lead with conviction, set boundaries that support your vision, and infuse your work with the integrity and joy that icons like Dolly Parton so effortlessly embody. Join us for an episode that is as much a masterclass in entrepreneurship as it is a celebration of the human spirit.
Mackenzie Kilshaw Co. offers comprehensive business coaching, and consulting tailored to your needs.
With Mackenzie's award winning entrepreneurial expertise in strategy, leadership, business development, branding, website development, social media management, SEO, sales and customer service training and more, clients receive personalized guidance to drive growth and success.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Shauna Foster (00:06):
Winning is your guide to making it in business.
Join our award-winning host andentrepreneur, Mackenzie Kilshaw
, and special guests in casualconversations that will educate
and inspire you on your businessjourney.
Winning will help you learn thehard lessons the easy way, with
guidance from celebratedentrepreneurs and business
(00:26):
leaders.
It's fun, it's informative,it's winning.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (00:32):
Hello, welcome to Winning.
I'm your host, MackenzieKilshaw, and today's guest is
Meg Calvin.
Hi, Meg
Meg Calvin (00:38):
We're going to have so much fun today.
Mackenzie, Thanks for having meon.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (00:41):
I know I'm excited to have you on.
So a writing and marketingcoach who gives memoirs and
nonfiction writers everythingthey need to write, market and
sell an Amazon bestselling book,which is really such a cool
thing that you do.
We'll chat about it.
I actually was in an Amazonbook that was a bestseller, but
I didn't do the back work.
(01:02):
I didn't do the back work.
But Meg also guides writers ingetting the blocks about their
identity, their time, theirunique writing style, marketing
their book, marketing their bookto an audience.
That's just like a few of thethings you do.
This is going to be a cooldiscussion, for sure.
So, , thanks for being here,but why don't you tell the
(01:25):
audience and the peoplelistening a little bit more
about yourself?
Meg Calvin (01:30):
Yes, yes, I'm so excited to.
I'll give the Cliff Notesversion.
A Southern Belle was raised in.
I'm from Texas and there arethree power for women that
basically raised me.
I call them the Holy Triad, thematriarchal triad, that they
were my mom, my grandmother andmy aunt, and, very fortunate, I
(01:53):
also had a stepdad that raisedme and a grandfather who were
this, cheered me on, and so Isay that to say I was never
raised with the story or thenarrative that I couldn't do
anything a man could do.
And so I began preaching when Iwas 13 with my missionary
grandparents.
They'd take me around toconferences and churches and
(02:15):
mission trips and I would preachand I would sing, and that
tapped into my writing abilitythat I already was aware I had
and just fueled my love for it.
My dad, my stepdad, who raisedme, was in the military, so I
was also.
I was a Southern Belle that wemoved to Germany.
So I had that culturalexperience from age four to 10,
(02:38):
which was huge for me as anartist type, because I got to be
in the Shakespeare club as athird grader, performed on the
Hoffman Theater the Hoffmanstage, which is where Mozart
himself performed and was sothankful for that as the
benefits of being an Army brat,and then moved back to Texas and
had a wonderful experience backliving close to my grandmother
and aunt again middle school andhigh school.
(02:59):
So from the age of 13 to 32, mydream was to.
I felt my calling and at thatpoint it was.
I became a minister.
So from age 17 to 32, I was ona church staff, paid minister,
went to seminary and lovestudying curriculum writing and
(03:20):
pastoral care and how the brainworks in developing people on
healthy volunteer teams.
And then I'm probably answeringother questions at this time as
I'm hopping around.
I will say another big part ofmy origin story that I'll share
is when I was 36.
About two years ago I found mybiological dad who I hadn't seen
(03:43):
since I was three.
There's a whole lot there thatwe won't go into.
It was very healing.
And then it was so beautifulbecause I discovered that my
biological father isentrepreneurial as well, has had
his own business, is indirector of sales now, love
sales and I also love the gameof sales.
So that's been neat toreconnect with him over the past
(04:05):
two years and see the power ofgenetics and all of that.
So that is.
I think that's the mostimportant parts of my story, my
origin, if you will.
Yeah, for sure, I think.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (04:17):
I love how you talk about your biological
father there and him being anentrepreneur, because a lot of
the guests that I have honestlyalmost all of them someone else
in their family was anentrepreneur.
So I don't know if we want tosay that's genetic or if it's
learned.
I mean, in your case, I thinkit's genetic, right, you know,
learn from him.
But I think if you've got thatentrepreneurial bug, as I always
(04:40):
say you, have it right.
And you're more inclined to do,to do entrepreneurial things.
Meg Calvin (04:47):
Oh, yes, definitely.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (04:50):
So you start out with your family and,
obviously, being a preacher,that was very important to you.
What made the change?
Meg Calvin (05:02):
Yes, yes, I'm pausing I'm an extrovert who's
pausing right now and gatheringmy thoughts.
The change was I was drawn tothe church as a child.
(05:23):
I began, as you can tell, bybeing separated from my
biological father.
There was little tea, big tea,trauma.
However, you want to capitalizethat tea in my early childhood
years, which we won't go intoand the beautiful thing that
came from that was I was, Ibelieve, was drawn to the church
(05:43):
.
As a six year old, my mom gotme singing in her secretary's
gospel choir.
So I was this little six yearold white girl on a military
base in Germany in this allblack gospel choir of adults,
and it was in that space, thesix year old, that I did meet a
God or whatever we want to callthat source, universe, spirit.
That truly healed me and I wasobviously so thankful for that.
(06:08):
And as I grew in the church, Ialso loved.
I felt love through theapplause of preaching and
singing, the like mostperformers.
The applause, that validation,was my love.
Well, when I was fast forwarding, fast forward to 2014.
My I won't tell the whole story, but on a missionary retreat
(06:28):
with my same missionarygrandmother, and it was at that
retreat that we the question wasasked to me what was something?
Well, after a very deep somatichealing experience, the
question was asked what would Ido if no one was there to
applaud me and no one ever knewthat I did it, but it would
still bring me pleasure, enjoy.
(06:49):
What would I do?
And for me, it was.
It was writing, and so I began,then started my first book at
that point and that, like itdoes for lots of people, the
first book opened up doors forme to begin speaking at
conferences on the content ofthe book, and then it also
opened the door for me to startcoaching and at that point, I
(07:09):
was coaching other ministerspresent from to prevent
compassion, fatigue and burnout,and I loved it.
I love the coaching containerof asking deep questions and
shining a light on very talented, compassionate people and
pointing out blind spots andjust helping them reach their
potential and just just sittingwith them.
I loved that one-on-one spaceso much so when my I, I the
(07:35):
timeline went really fast.
Looking back now it's like, ohmy gosh, that was a lot that
happened.
So in 2018, December, I leftthe church and, um, I was like,
oh my gosh, I'm so sorry, I'm sosorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so
sorry.
My second book came out at thatsame time and I knew I wanted.
I forgot an important part bythe time the second book had
(07:57):
come out.
So many conversations werecoming my way from other people
that wanted to write veryhelpful healing books with
Spiritual undertones, which ishow I started.
That's not my only clientelenow, but then it was In around
2019.
I had so many conversationsfrom people that they were
blocked by their own limitingbeliefs around money and
(08:17):
monetizing their gifts andmarketing.
They they had this belief that,like I did, that marketing was
egotistical and slimy andmanipulative, and they they
didn't know how to trustthemselves, which is huge.
When you are starting abusiness or when you are for my
clientele, when you are lettinga book speak, come up, release,
(08:38):
be released from you, it's a lotabout trusting it and trusting
yourself.
And so I knew that I wanted tostart my own business, where I
was heartbroken by all of thesehelpful healing books that might
never be live off of someone'scomputer unless they got a coach
to guide them through it.
So I had a.
I knew I needed a bridge, so Ihad a friend who had a business
(09:01):
and I went to him and said I'mstarting my own business.
I just need, like two yearscould I do marketing for you,
like?
And so I was the Director ofEngagement for his online
business and for two years.
And I started my businessJanuary of 2020 as a side hustle
and then went full-time Augustof 2021 and and then have.
(09:22):
When I first started it, it wasjust helping people write their
memoirs or works of nonfiction,building their author brand and
then submitting it to atraditional publishing company.
I walked them through that andthen, two years ago, I realized,
oh wait, I could hire peopleunder me and give others, give
authors all the royalties, allthe rights and make it more of a
(09:45):
partnership, give themeverything they need.
And so, after working withtraditional publishing companies
myself as an author, I justbrought in a team under me to do
everything people needed inthrough self-publishing on
Amazon.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (09:59):
That's super cool, do you?
Are you still writing?
Are you still writing your ownbooks?
Meg Calvin (10:05):
Yes, I have.
I'm starting my third book andso I'm four chapters in and I'm
giving myself it's.
It's a work of fiction, which Idon't know that art.
So I have a coach.
I've had a business coachthroughout this whole do since
2018, like most successfulbusinesses, I have a business
coach, and then I have a writingcoach, as now for my to learn
(10:26):
the art of fiction.
And so, because my other twobooks were nonfiction and memoir
, which is only just who I serveclientel right now, but I'm
learning fiction, so I can servepeople that way too.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (10:37):
Yeah, I love how you said to that you have a
business coach, which allsuccessful businesses have.
This is not even on our topic,but I want to touch on it.
Yes, because, yes, because Ithink it's so.
It's so interesting to me nowthat I've had the podcast I, I
do a little bit of coaching andmentoring on the side, I'll say
(11:01):
as well, but it's so interestingbecause, if you look at our
world, every successful teamlet's just say sports, for
example has a coach.
Yes, right, children haveteachers or they go to.
My husband owns a baseballtraining facility, so he coaches
(11:21):
kids all the time on how to getbetter at baseball.
And I feel like there's astigma still for people that are
like, oh, you have a businesscoach, you mustn't know what
you're doing or you mustn't knowright, how do you something you
need?
To me, it's just crazy, becausewhy do you not want someone to
coach you along the way thatseen a lot more than you have,
(11:44):
right?
Meg Calvin (11:45):
because in your business.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (11:46):
You're in your own kind of bubble.
You only see what's there.
So, like breaking that stigmaof a business coach has a
negative thing and turning itinto a positive, and I think
someone like you thank you forsaying what you said, because
it's so true, right?
Yes, everyone that's successful.
(12:07):
It goes back to a lot of thingsand coaching is one of them,
for sure.
Meg Calvin (12:12):
Oh, my goodness, 100%.
Yes, I was just on my coachingcall today with my coach and I
obviously love writing long formcopy, which is which is epic on
Facebook and it's built mybusiness is built on organic
social media marketing and hewas reminding me and pushing me
that I it would benefit me to goall in and do more, be more
(12:36):
strategic with my reels, whichI'm doing reels, but I'm leaning
a lot.
I lean more on my writing andso pushing me to times are
changing.
Can you, can you adjust yourstrat, your marketing strategy,
to include more videos ofyourself and make them inner,
make them edgy, educational andentertaining?
When I'm just like I'd ratherwrite, can I just write 2200
(12:59):
words?
It's like, yes, but get theirattention with a reason.
Anyway, yes, totally 100%.
Coaching is where it's at.
Having a coach, yes, and youwould never.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (13:08):
You might do a reel here, reel there, but you
never actually get into itwithout that kind of guidance
from the business coach.
Totally yeah.
And and the thing too for youis, when you're coaching now
creatives, other creatives andwriters, you can now share that
advice with them as well, yes,oh, definitely yes.
(13:31):
The giving wheel just keeps ongiving right.
That's what I always say okay,let's talk about being a
creative person, because I thinka lot of people that are
creatives don't think aboutturning that creativity into an
actual business or making thattheir career right, like you.
(13:51):
I know you said before that waskind of a side hassle for a
while.
Before you, you know, startedcoaching.
So how can a creative personsuch as a writer and creative
person can be lots of differentthings, not necessarily a writer
, but let's talk writer specifichow can they monetize their
work or make it a business?
Meg Calvin (14:10):
Yes, I will start by saying that the majority,
actually all of my clients I'vehad the privilege of serving 46
in four years, which is soexciting.
Wow, yeah, that's awesome.
A testament again to what youwere saying hire, invest in a
business coach.
He gets a lot of credit forthat, especially when it comes
to scaling your business.
(14:30):
Business coaches are huge,because I know other business
owners that when it comes timeto scale, it's scary and they
burn out and they getoverwhelmed and they quit.
Their side hustle doesn't growinto a full-time gig, a
full-time job.
And for me, another proof tohave a business coach for that
(14:52):
reason, for scaling.
Okay, so all of my clients theyhave made their, they make
their money, they monetize theirwork through their book being a
lead magnet, and so they arecoaches themselves or they are
business owners themselves.
They want speakingopportunities, they want group
(15:15):
coaching clients, they wantone-on-one coaching clients,
they want to plug up twice ayear event that they fly people
into, and the book is a leadmagnet for that, and so those
are the majority of my clients.
So we intentionally weintentionally crafted it as such
, as the book is a bridge into adeeper connection, a deeper
(15:37):
partnership, a different servicethat that author offers, and so
I will add I'll be morespecific in one part though that
even though it is a lead magnet, it is also, in a sense their
life's work that they're workingon, and so what I mean by that
is it's a coach who's writing amemoir or it's a coach that is
(16:00):
writing a non-transfer.
It's there, they've taken allof the content from their
evergreen courses.
We put it in book form and thenthey're infusing that
non-fiction book with lots ofanecdotal, personal moments, and
so I know now, in the world ofAI, that it's really easy to
have a book written that is alead magnet that does convert to
(16:22):
sales.
But I love I love working withpeople that their book is going
to be more than just a leadmagnet although that's what it
is.
It's more than that, and okay.
So if creativity is a businessfor someone they and their
writers I would say the quickestway to monetize that would be
(16:43):
to leverage their creativity byeasily making $5,000 a month
through email copywriting foranother coach or another
business owner that doesn't havethe skill set of writing and I
know lots of great fiction andnon-fiction writers that also,
along with their books, theywrite direct response copy for a
company, and that is, that'sjust one client they can easily
(17:07):
make 5k a month from.
If your creativity lies in audio.
There are so many ways.
We're on it right now.
Podcasting comes to mind, andthen also I've I offer audio
book packages as well.
Clients, we spend a six monthor a year together birthing and
(17:27):
releasing their book, and thenthey fly here to Kansas and we
have studio time, we have aaudio book retreat weekend, and
most the authors I work withthey want their own voice on the
audio book.
But I've had one that wanteddifferent voices, so I got to
pay people as narrators, asvoiceover actors.
So that's another way toleverage your creativity if your
(17:48):
creativity is in your voicepodcast, monetizing that or
audio book work, and so there'sso much opportunity for those
who are creative to help othersget their message out in the
world that don't have, do notfeel the pleasure in writing and
don't have, don't have thebandwidth or capacity or the
desire to learn how to write.
(18:09):
Well when it comes to copyright, copywriting, yeah, that makes
sense.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (18:14):
I mean, I know for myself.
I said at the beginning andpeople that listen to the
podcast know I was I wrote achapter and I did not use AI to
write it.
I actually wrote it, but I'mnot a writer.
But I wrote a chapter in acollective book, so it was
called Conversations Over Coffeeand it was, I think there was
like 20, some authors in it Ishould know the exact number but
(18:36):
we're all entrepreneurs orbusiness owners or in that, that
kind of realm, right, and weall wrote our chapter about our
journey or our life or triumphover a tragedy or whatever it
happened to be.
But I know, when I wasapproached and by the woman that
(18:58):
put the book together, who wasfriend of mine, but I actually
kind of laughed at her because Isaid I'm not a writer, I do not
know how to write, what could Ipossibly write that would be
interesting to people?
And you know, and she reallyencouraged me in saying, like
your story is interesting, evenif you don't think it is, other
(19:20):
people do or they want to hearabout your story, and it really
is a, for me, a lead magnetright to say, hey, check out my
story in this book.
But I didn't realize how much Iwould or how much I enjoyed it
until.
I actually was doing it, youknow it kind of for me.
(19:42):
I said this was a greatopportunity, but the enjoyment
that I got from that actually Ithink was more self fulfilling
than the actual opportunity ofit being a lead magnet.
Shauna Foster (19:57):
Yes, oh, that's so true.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (19:59):
Yeah, and I think there's probably lots of
people like me that can come toyou right and say, hey, I want
to tell my story, or I want totalk about a topic or whatever
it happens to be, that really intheir head they might be
thinking, oh, it's going to begood for my business, promote my
business, but really there's,there's more to it than that,
isn't there?
Meg Calvin (20:19):
Oh, yes, yes, I hold the belief and it's been proven
time and time again that if abook idea is speaking up to you,
it's speaking up louder andlouder for two reasons.
One is to give you the joy andthe pleasure and the
breakthrough that it's going to.
It's going to give you bywriting it.
Every client I've served whenthey write that deep place, we
(20:42):
go within to listen to the bookand write what it's telling us.
That is the same deep place wego to trust ourselves, as I said
earlier, to listen to ourtruest desires to heal layers of
wounds that believe in us nowthat we're ready to heal certain
things.
(21:02):
And so we birth a book.
We birth a breakthrough, likeevery client I've served is.
Either as soon as the bookdropped and hit best seller on
Amazon, they got out of thatunhealthy marriage they'd been
struggling with for eight yearswhere there was abuse happening
or something where it wasdivorce was best like, or they
(21:23):
moved to France after thinkingabout it for seven years, or
they changed jobs, or theycommitted today I make my side
hustle, my full hustle or theyhad that sweaty palm
conversation with the relativethey've been putting off for
decades.
And it was because I believe webirth books.
We birth breakthroughs.
They give us the confidencethat we've been seeking forever.
And so those are sub points.
(21:44):
But the two reasons the bookspeaks up is to give us the
pleasure and the breakthrough.
It's time for us to evolve toup level in our life, and so
that's why the book is speakingup.
And the second reason isspeaking up is because our ideal
reader, our target audience,their need for to be served by
our specific book, with ourspecific personality and our
(22:07):
specific style, with ourspecific scars and our specific
goals and our specific niche,they're hungry.
They're getting our ideareaders getting hungrier, like I
wish someone with everythingthat would describe you would
write this book, and then that'swhy the idea is getting louder.
So when we trust it and webirth and release that book,
it's, it's um, it's happening injust the right time, yeah, so
(22:31):
yes, a lot is happening when wewrite books, yeah, are there
ways to know what people want toknow about?
Mackenzie Kilshaw (22:38):
I mean, how do you, like you can have a a
lot of things in your story youcan tell, or that you want to
tell, um, but how do you knowthat people are needing that?
Meg Calvin (22:50):
Yes, that's a great question.
There's a yes and no to this.
What's coming up for me is I amobsessed with the comedy
through Monty Python.
Do you know them from theseventies?
They did, of course you do.
Of course you do.
I met them in high schoolEnglish class and I was in love.
(23:14):
Um, I thought where have theseguys been all my life?
Well, thankfully I marriedsomeone who also is in love with
them and loves that kind ofcomedy, and we watched so many
documentaries.
On one documentary, John Cleese,a member of the troop, was
interviewed and he said when BBCcame to like, he said get it
(23:34):
right, meg.
He said our show Monty PythonFlying Circus would not exist
today if we were to do it today.
And the interviewer was like oh, what do you mean?
It was so great.
And he said because today theyare so obsessed with BBC.
He was talking BBC.
BBC is obsessed with the dataand the trends.
And what do millennials findfunny?
What do gen x find funny?
And he said in the earlyseventies, when BBC came to
(23:58):
Monty Python, they never askedthose questions and the guys
couldn't even describe whattheir book was going to be about
, but they knew they needed totake what they were doing, what
brought them joy as writerstogether, comedic writers and
actors.
They just knew what broughtthem joy and they wanted to
share it and that was enough.
And so I teach the writers Iserve and I follow this in my
(24:19):
own business too to be looselyaware of the trends.
But if the trends are bringingyou to an impasse where you're
like gosh that does that,doesn't honor what wants to come
through me as a writer, thenignore that trend and so
honoring what wants to comethrough you matters most.
(24:40):
Another example is my secondbook was satirical but also
self-help and theological and Ishared about.
I shared about purity, cultureand the church and shame that
comes we're from that can comefrom that and healing that
within myself and loving mysexuality and loving my body and
growing to love both thosethings as I age.
(25:00):
And that chapter got the mostamount of feedback.
So many people the readers DMto me telling me their stories
about shame and guilt around sexand body image.
So I went to I was sitting init with my business coach and I
thought I know there's a part ofme that thinks, whoa, my third
(25:21):
book should be about sex andbody, but I don't want to write.
I don't want to write that book.
So what's the lesson in thisfor me and what we, as we
dissected it together and heasked all the great, all the
great questions and listened tomy way of being, which I strive
to do myself as a coach what wecame, what I came up with, was
the lesson.
There was that readers lovedwhen I was vulnerable.
(25:42):
That's why that chapter hit home, and so can I take that
vulnerability into my next bookor my next workshop or whatever.
So I would say first andforemost, instead of asking
ourselves I love this question,by the way, I'm going to land
the plane, I promise instead ofasking, okay, what do, what does
(26:03):
my ideal client want to readabout, when there is a time for
that, 100%, totally do a Googleforum and when you're planning a
workshop.
But I feel the most, what'smost important to look for is in
your, in your area, your nicheor your industry.
What grinds your gears the most?
What?
Bill Highbull's, senior pastor,Willow Creek not anymore,
(26:25):
though that's a long story.
Anyway, he had this book in 04that was called Holy Discontent
and he said whatever area makesyou the most angry in your life,
like when you see other peoplemessing it up or not, pay
attention, listen to that,because the divine wants you to
make a difference in that andknow that that doesn't tick
everyone off, like you mightthink.
(26:47):
Oh, everyone gets ticked off bythe use of styrofoam cups.
They sadly don't.
For me, I get really ticked off.
Even before I became a writingcoach, it really ticked.
My hand was shaking.
That's how passionate I was.
I get really ticked off by thestat that our attention spans
are getting shorter.
Therefore, our nonfiction booksneed to be shorter they need to
(27:08):
be on 20,000 to 30,000 words,which is usually less than 100
pages and that we need to lowerthe average, the age.
The reading age that we writewith Direct response copy is
written at a third to fifthgrade reading language, which is
good for direct response copyon your website or email
marketing, but not in your book.
People are smart.
They'll stick around for a longbook if it's written well.
(27:29):
So the fact that that grinds mygears back in 2016, it wasn't no
one else cared, but I wasgetting all fired up, so I would
tell someone that if there'ssomething that really an area of
life that's just grinding theirgears lately and they feel that
they have the gifts, theexperience to say something
about it, to trust, and it'saligned with their target market
(27:50):
although I hold that looselytoo, because every entrepreneur
is, we evolve, so you might havein every book of yours could be
to a different target audience.
So listening to that too, okay,I'm going to.
I'll be quiet now.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (28:07):
No, that was no.
No, that was really good,because I think that's the
that's the thing.
As entrepreneurs, our brainsare always coming up with the
next idea or the next thingright, how do I get more revenue
?
Or how do I share this lesson,or how do I, whatever?
It is right.
And I think the thing now is wehear so much in marketing about
(28:28):
your to be specific to yourtarget market segments, which I
fully agree with, but I don'tknow that, as a creative, you
should try to, you know,pigeonhole yourself or whatever
it is, and say, okay, I'm onlydoing this because I think this
is what they're looking for,because you might find a whole
(28:49):
new segment or a new marketmarket, as you said, by
something that grinds you gearsor something that you're really
passionate or excited about, andthat might be actually a new
revenue stream for you 100%, yes, yeah, and the the part.
Meg Calvin (29:03):
As entrepreneurs, we have to feel pleasure and
passion, and that'll sustain usmore than anything.
Oh for sure, yeah, yeah,totally.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (29:12):
And your points to being vulnerable,
genuine, authentic.
I I just know this as a I don'tknow as a scientist scientific
fact, but I know it is a factfrom every business person,
entrepreneur, that I've seen themore authentic and the more
genuine they are, the moresuccessful they are.
Oh, yes, right when people seethe real you and they understand
(29:36):
you and they know what you'reabout.
They're more likely to supportyou right, and you can't.
You can't be the person foreveryone, but the people that
appreciate you and that agreewith you and that, like what
you're saying, they're going tosupport you 100%.
Meg Calvin (29:54):
Oh, it's so true, yes, yeah.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (29:56):
It is, isn't it it is?
I should find a stat on thatlike a real life one, not just
me saying it, .
Meg Calvin (30:04):
It is, yes, it reminds me of, as we're moving
out of the age of information,where we can learn anything on
our toilets from our phone,which is disgusting, but it's
true, true, yeah, it's true.
It is respect and trust.
So no one wants to pay to learnfrom you or buy your content,
whether it's a book or a podcastor whatever it is.
They don't want to pay you forthat till they respect you,
(30:25):
trust you and relate to you, andthat comes through
vulnerability.
So there's, there's your stat,there's your fact, there's your
evidence.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (30:33):
Your proof.
We'll just say we'll just sayit's 100%.
So okay, how does a creative'sbusiness look different from
Meg Calvin (30:44):
Yes.
love this question so much,like all your questions.
I think I said that the wholeshow.
I love this question.
I love this question.
What's coming to me is it wouldbenefit every business owner to
have time in their week wherethey are playing, because and
that looks different foreveryone because we are so much
(31:07):
more resourceful and adaptive webrainstorm better, we dream
better when we are playing, so Iwould think every business
owner needs time for that.
I think the amount of time thatthere is a safe space to play
and create is different, thoughif you are creative in business.
I think creatives need more ofthat.
(31:29):
I'm feeling from my experienceas a creative.
My business became extremelysuccessful when I made it a
priority in my week two.
I also sing, like I said before, so I sing and acquire on my
(31:49):
lunch break.
I started an improv troupe thatmeets weekly.
I have relationships in placethat nurture my priority of play
and nurture my need fordiversity as well in my business
.
Like you said, changingspontaneity and, as you said,
(32:12):
entrepreneurs we think more.
Entrepreneurs, people that arewired to be entrepreneurial
think more thoughts than someonethat's not wired to be one, and
so we need routines andfriendships and marriages and
parent-child relationships I'malso a mom parent-child
relationships that support ourentrepreneurial way of being.
And then the other differenceis we all know in building teams
(32:38):
over the years that you want todelegate whatever's not your
area of genius, and I would saythat's 100% true, obviously for
creatives as well.
Delegating the for my world.
I have teammates that of course, do cover design and fonts,
formatting, copy and lineediting, research on categories
(32:59):
for Amazon and keywords thosethings that are obviously cover
design is art is a creativething, but the other task or
more in line for those withengineering type minds or
scientific type minds.
So delegating as much aspossible where you can show up
as the creative.
So for me that is openingmyself up for making a priority
(33:20):
where I am doing what I lovemost in my business, which is
collaborating with authorssitting in the holy, sacred
space of our one hour Zoom call,where we're asking deep
questions about this chapter orabout their brand for their, and
helping them align who they arewith the frequency of their
brand.
So that creative work, thatdeep, sub-conscious unblocking
(33:44):
that usually we call it writer'sblock, but it usually has
nothing to do with words on thepage.
There's something much deeperusually going on, and that's
what I love most.
So delegating the rest.
I actually wrote a little poem,not a poem, it was a post.
It's called Dear Lover ofWriters, and could I read that
(34:05):
with that serve?
Of course, really, really, itis short.
I think this goes for allcreatives that are making a
business out of, that aremonetizing their creativity, and
I think this, as I said earlier, I think it would benefit all
business owners to be morecreative.
But the amount of time thatsomeone who is a creative needs
(34:26):
to, I'll just read it.
I'll just read it, just read it.
Just read it.
Okay, it says Dear Lover,there's something I've been
meaning to tell you for quite awhile now.
It's something you probablyhave picked up on, so I'm just
going to come clean about it.
I'm a writer.
I've wanted to tell you andmyself this for years, and while
this news might make younervous, here is some guidance
for us to continue to love.
(34:47):
Well, there will be times whenI need you to be patient with me
.
There will be times when youjust paid the bill at dinner and
just at that exact moment,inspiration strikes and I need
five extra minutes to jot achapter idea down on a napkin.
Don't worry, this is one of theleast socially awkward
situations that you will succumbto when you fall for an
artistic wordsmith.
(35:07):
There will be times when I needextra grace for my overactive
imagination and my overlyanalytical mind.
Within these great virtues hidemy vices.
If you could support alifestyle that daily gets me out
of my beautiful mind and backinto my body through loving
touch, movement and socializing,that would be appreciated.
(35:29):
I fell for you because you arefun, after all, and I will
forever return to and requirethat.
There will be times when I havequestions about my best-selling
book goals or lack theinspiration to write.
It's not your job as my loverto know the answers, nor is it
your job to inspire me.
You are my lover, not my muse.
I will receive your.
(35:51):
I don't know.
Do you need a night off fromparenting once a week to find an
answer?
I can cook and put the tiny oneto bed while you research with
deep appreciation.
There will be times when I havecrippling fear and anxiety
around the following and thensome what if readers don't find
me smart enough to write?
What if I fail and readers findtypos in my book?
What if, somehow, an exactversion of my book was written
(36:13):
72 years ago by a way betterauthor and some random reader
calls me out for plagiarism overan email?
What if I freeze and sound likea moron on a podcast?
What if people think I'm a fake?
What if they find out that Isometimes feel like a fake?
What if I'm too successful andI'm not present enough with my
kids?
What if my book rocks the boattoo much and I lose my church
friends and my dad is no longerproud of me?
(36:34):
In these moments, love, it's notyour job to save me from my
fear or my anxiety.
It's only your job to holdspace for my feelings, to hold
space for our utter belief in mebeing who I am a writer.
You are my lover, after all,not my coach or my therapist,
nor is it their job to save meeither.
All in all, know that I in noway expect you to save me,
(36:58):
inspire me or, heck even, tolove my book.
I didn't expect you to becomemy target audience for my book.
I expect you to simply supportme becoming the best version of
myself as a writer.
You're my lover, after all, notmy client nor my customer.
That is all now love.
Thank you for hearing me, forseeing me and supporting me as I
(37:19):
serve.
How I will serve my readers isdue largely to how well you have
loved me.
Ps it's okay if you're afraid.
I'm afraid sometimes too.
With great love, the writer,you fell hard for.
There's so much there about howwe're wired as creatives that
(37:39):
most of us are highly sensitive,most overly imaginative.
There needs to be routines andrelationships in place that
support all of that as good.
It's very good to see a treeand then want to whip out a pin
and write about it.
It's not crazy.
It's good when the muse showsup.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (37:57):
While you were reading that.
First of all, thank you,because that was really
interesting to hear for you as awriter, me as a not writer, as
you were reading that in my mind, that is me replace writing or
the book with business.
That was me as an entrepreneur.
(38:18):
Everything in there, because Idon't look at the tree and want
to write about it.
I look at the tree and think,how can I make this tree a
business?
Yes, what is it that can make?
How can this make money?
I really resonate with that.
I think people listening willas well, because it works for
(38:39):
entrepreneurs too.
100% right, I love that.
I love that.
Thank you for sharing.
Meg, looking back at your yearsof being an entrepreneur, do
you have a most important lesson?
Meg Calvin (38:57):
Yes, I it before you even answered the question.
It was like yep, here it is.
It is that you are the queen ofyour queendom and if you're a
man listening, you are the kingof your kingdom.
It is your business, and sowhat you say goes.
And because your audience ispeople, they're people that have
(39:17):
practices in place to be ofintegrity.
They are good people.
They are striving to do well.
Their business is going tobenefit the world.
They can trust themselves.
To say that, when I was scalingmy business, I had people coming
under me and I found myselffalling back into my former ways
as a minister and I waseverybody's best friend and I
(39:42):
would have meetings withtechnicians and I would ask
things like how can we make thisa win for you?
Okay, you need more time onthat?
Okay, okay, let me redo this.
And how can I make youcomfortable?
And then I found myselfcoaching them and they weren't
clients, they were technicians,and so it was such an energy
suck and I started to doubtmaybe I don't want to do
(40:02):
everything for authors.
There's a lot of people likethe book doulas I think it's two
women.
They'll help you write the bookand edit the book, but they
won't do the publishing and themarketing for you.
And I'm like I get it.
I get why they just do thatbecause, oh well, then I realize
.
Oh wait, my job would be easierif I just come home to the
truth of what I say goes as thequeen for my technicians, or not
(40:25):
my clients, the people that Ihire a contract work with.
I'm not going to coach them.
If I need something in threemonths, it has to be in three
months.
Is that a win for you?
It's not, okay, I'm going tofind someone else.
Thank you for what you've doneInstead of and the mistake I was
making them was for a season asI was growing was I was
(40:46):
treating them like they werepartners in my business, and
they're not.
They're not.
And so, yes, I would say you totrust yourself as queen of your
queendom, and there's nothing.
Not, it is selfish, and itshould be selfish, because what
I'm building and what youraudience, who's listening to
this right now, what they'rebuilding is good and what's
(41:07):
going to make it better iswhat's inside the head and the
heart and the soul of the queenof that queendom.
And so be selfish.
You are the queen of yourqueendom and I also.
I also love to always sharethis short Dolly Parton story
because she's one of my idols.
Dolly Parton her accountanttold her if you open this
amusement park, it will ruin youfinancially.
(41:27):
It will ruin you and do not dothis.
This is a horrible businessdecision.
And Dolly said nope, my gutsays to do it.
And that amusement park ismaking her so much money and is
helping so many people.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (41:40):
I've never been to Dollywood, but it is on
my list.
Meg Calvin (41:42):
Yes, yes, and so I think that she's and if, oh,
that's another people, friendslistening to this go to Netflix,
watch Dolly Parton'sdocumentary.
I am something.
It tells.
Just there's so many lessons inthere, as as business owners,
for us to listen to, about herown journey of building her
empire, and there were just somany moments where she, she was.
(42:03):
It was obvious, she knew herrole as queen of the queendom
she was building.
It was so powerful.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (42:10):
You know what .
That's great advice, and Ithink too, especially for people
that are just starting out.
You want to be your employee orthe people you're working with,
friend in the sense you thinkthat's going to get you further,
but actually it can kind ofbite you in the butt.
So I agree with you it's it'snot going to be a tyrant about
(42:30):
it, but this is the directionwe're going and this is how
we're getting there and this howlong it's taking.
And if it doesn't work for you,then you're probably not the
right person to be on the ship,right.
Meg Calvin (42:41):
Yes, 100%.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (42:43):
Is there anything you wish you had known
or you could tell yourself fiveyears ago or 10 years ago?
Meg Calvin (42:48):
Yeah, everything felt so divine in the timing all
meant to be.
I'm thinking of my own regrets.
It's okay if you don't have any.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (42:57):
I mean, the thing is yeah.
Meg Calvin (42:59):
I do have one that's coming up.
I will keep it short, and thatis that when you're in, when
you're in the coaching world,this is.
This has only happened once tome, thankfully, because sales
calls and expiration calls canweed out.
As the queen of my queendom, oneof my rules is I will not work
with someone who I wouldn't goget coffee with them.
(43:21):
And if there's not frequencyalignment with us and they're
not service oriented, I Ithought it doesn't feel like a
match.
I won't work with them becauseit's such an emotionally
appropriately emotionallyintimate journey and and so I
can, and I have a process ofGoogle form before someone even
gets on a call with me thatthey're I'm sure I've read
(43:41):
enough to know they're, they'reserious about their goals.
Um, what I wish I would haveknown before, oh gosh, is that
you can eat.
My biggest mistake, that I, mybiggest regret, is I had one
client that I felt it was not amatch and they offered they
(44:06):
really wanted to work with me,so they offered more money and
and I said I took them on and I,I regret it.
And so the lesson there is, Ithink, for coaches it's okay to
let go of clients.
It's okay to do refunds.
I'm so thankful, I've neverhad to refund anyone on this
(44:28):
journey.
But there was one client that II did not look forward to
getting on coaching calls withand I could have.
I could have stopped that trainearlier.
Yeah, and fire a client.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (44:44):
I Fire client yes.
Shauna Foster (44:45):
Yes.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (44:46):
And coach or not.
If you're service based at allor you have a business where
people come to you and thatperson causes you more grief
than joy.
It's okay to say we're not theplace for you or I'm not the
person for you.
And I think that's hard ashumans, because we don't want to
say no to people and we want tohelp people, yes.
(45:07):
But I think that's a goodlesson and and it's just okay to
say no or break up with someoneyes, client based right yeah,
100%, I think it's.
It's good.
I learned that very many yearsinto my business, many years.
Okay, I dealt with many peoplethat I did not really like, but
(45:30):
once again they were.
I owned a clothing store, so Imean they purchased an item and
left, but it was not pleasurablefor me or my staff, and I
realized after many years thatif they didn't shop with me
anymore, I didn't care, becausethat financial gain was not
(45:50):
worth the mental anguish and Ithink that's a lesson that's
good for people to know.
So thank you for sharing.
I appreciate it.
Pleasure, make work and peoplefind you.
I know they're going to want tolearn more about you.
Maybe they're creative, thatwants they're like okay, I'm
ready, I want to, I want towrite a book or I want to learn
more.
So I think that's the bestplace for them to come.
Meg Calvin (46:10):
Yes, I love to connect with them at Instagram,
@hey Meg Calvin, and then, ifthey want, I have a free gift
for your audience.
That is awesome.
It's a short video trainingthree ways to make marketing
your book more fun and lessfrustrating and the marketing
(46:31):
principles that I teach in thatthose three steps are good for
marketing any type of business,not just the author brand.
So you can get that trainingthree ways to make marketing
your book more fun, lessfrustrating at www.
MegCalvin.
com and they can get that freetraining there.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (46:50):
Awesome.
Thank you so much, Meg.
I appreciate you being on andappreciate you sharing your
story with us.
Yes, In the last 46 minutesjust flies by I don't know how.
So thank you so much and, toeverybody listening, we'll see
you on the next episode.
Thanks again for listening andI'll see you on the next episode
(47:51):
.
Winning is your guide to making it in business.
Join our award-winning host andentrepreneur, Mackenzie Kilshaw
, and special guests in casualconversations that will educate
and inspire you on your businessjourney.
Winning will help you learn thehard lessons the easy way, with
guidance from celebratedentrepreneurs and business
(00:26):
leaders.
It's fun, it's informative,it's winning.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (00:32):
Hello, welcome to Winning.
I'm your host, MackenzieKilshaw, and today's guest is
Meg Calvin.
Hi, Meg
Meg Calvin (00:38):
We're going to have so much fun today.
Mackenzie, Thanks for having meon.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (00:41):
I know I'm excited to have you on.
So a writing and marketingcoach who gives memoirs and
nonfiction writers everythingthey need to write, market and
sell an Amazon bestselling book,which is really such a cool
thing that you do.
We'll chat about it.
I actually was in an Amazonbook that was a bestseller, but
I didn't do the back work.
(01:02):
I didn't do the back work.
But Meg also guides writers ingetting the blocks about their
identity, their time, theirunique writing style, marketing
their book, marketing their bookto an audience.
That's just like a few of thethings you do.
This is going to be a cooldiscussion, for sure.
So, , thanks for being here,but why don't you tell the
(01:25):
audience and the peoplelistening a little bit more
about yourself?
Meg Calvin (01:30):
Yes, yes, I'm so excited to.
I'll give the Cliff Notesversion.
A Southern Belle was raised in.
I'm from Texas and there arethree power for women that
basically raised me.
I call them the Holy Triad, thematriarchal triad, that they
were my mom, my grandmother andmy aunt, and, very fortunate, I
(01:53):
also had a stepdad that raisedme and a grandfather who were
this, cheered me on, and so Isay that to say I was never
raised with the story or thenarrative that I couldn't do
anything a man could do.
And so I began preaching when Iwas 13 with my missionary
grandparents.
They'd take me around toconferences and churches and
(02:15):
mission trips and I would preachand I would sing, and that
tapped into my writing abilitythat I already was aware I had
and just fueled my love for it.
My dad, my stepdad, who raisedme, was in the military, so I
was also.
I was a Southern Belle that wemoved to Germany.
So I had that culturalexperience from age four to 10,
(02:38):
which was huge for me as anartist type, because I got to be
in the Shakespeare club as athird grader, performed on the
Hoffman Theater the Hoffmanstage, which is where Mozart
himself performed and was sothankful for that as the
benefits of being an Army brat,and then moved back to Texas and
had a wonderful experience backliving close to my grandmother
and aunt again middle school andhigh school.
(02:59):
So from the age of 13 to 32, mydream was to.
I felt my calling and at thatpoint it was.
I became a minister.
So from age 17 to 32, I was ona church staff, paid minister,
went to seminary and lovestudying curriculum writing and
(03:20):
pastoral care and how the brainworks in developing people on
healthy volunteer teams.
And then I'm probably answeringother questions at this time as
I'm hopping around.
I will say another big part ofmy origin story that I'll share
is when I was 36.
About two years ago I found mybiological dad who I hadn't seen
(03:43):
since I was three.
There's a whole lot there thatwe won't go into.
It was very healing.
And then it was so beautifulbecause I discovered that my
biological father isentrepreneurial as well, has had
his own business, is indirector of sales now, love
sales and I also love the gameof sales.
So that's been neat toreconnect with him over the past
(04:05):
two years and see the power ofgenetics and all of that.
So that is.
I think that's the mostimportant parts of my story, my
origin, if you will.
Yeah, for sure, I think.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (04:17):
I love how you talk about your biological
father there and him being anentrepreneur, because a lot of
the guests that I have honestlyalmost all of them someone else
in their family was anentrepreneur.
So I don't know if we want tosay that's genetic or if it's
learned.
I mean, in your case, I thinkit's genetic, right, you know,
learn from him.
But I think if you've got thatentrepreneurial bug, as I always
(04:40):
say you, have it right.
And you're more inclined to do,to do entrepreneurial things.
Meg Calvin (04:47):
Oh, yes, definitely.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (04:50):
So you start out with your family and,
obviously, being a preacher,that was very important to you.
What made the change?
Meg Calvin (05:02):
Yes, yes, I'm pausing I'm an extrovert who's
pausing right now and gatheringmy thoughts.
The change was I was drawn tothe church as a child.
(05:23):
I began, as you can tell, bybeing separated from my
biological father.
There was little tea, big tea,trauma.
However, you want to capitalizethat tea in my early childhood
years, which we won't go intoand the beautiful thing that
came from that was I was, Ibelieve, was drawn to the church
(05:43):
.
As a six year old, my mom gotme singing in her secretary's
gospel choir.
So I was this little six yearold white girl on a military
base in Germany in this allblack gospel choir of adults,
and it was in that space, thesix year old, that I did meet a
God or whatever we want to callthat source, universe, spirit.
That truly healed me and I wasobviously so thankful for that.
(06:08):
And as I grew in the church, Ialso loved.
I felt love through theapplause of preaching and
singing, the like mostperformers.
The applause, that validation,was my love.
Well, when I was fast forwarding, fast forward to 2014.
My I won't tell the whole story, but on a missionary retreat
(06:28):
with my same missionarygrandmother, and it was at that
retreat that we the question wasasked to me what was something?
Well, after a very deep somatichealing experience, the
question was asked what would Ido if no one was there to
applaud me and no one ever knewthat I did it, but it would
still bring me pleasure, enjoy.
(06:49):
What would I do?
And for me, it was.
It was writing, and so I began,then started my first book at
that point and that, like itdoes for lots of people, the
first book opened up doors forme to begin speaking at
conferences on the content ofthe book, and then it also
opened the door for me to startcoaching and at that point, I
(07:09):
was coaching other ministerspresent from to prevent
compassion, fatigue and burnout,and I loved it.
I love the coaching containerof asking deep questions and
shining a light on very talented, compassionate people and
pointing out blind spots andjust helping them reach their
potential and just just sittingwith them.
I loved that one-on-one spaceso much so when my I, I the
(07:35):
timeline went really fast.
Looking back now it's like, ohmy gosh, that was a lot that
happened.
So in 2018, December, I leftthe church and, um, I was like,
oh my gosh, I'm so sorry, I'm sosorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so
sorry.
My second book came out at thatsame time and I knew I wanted.
I forgot an important part bythe time the second book had
(07:57):
come out.
So many conversations werecoming my way from other people
that wanted to write veryhelpful healing books with
Spiritual undertones, which ishow I started.
That's not my only clientelenow, but then it was In around
2019.
I had so many conversationsfrom people that they were
blocked by their own limitingbeliefs around money and
(08:17):
monetizing their gifts andmarketing.
They they had this belief that,like I did, that marketing was
egotistical and slimy andmanipulative, and they they
didn't know how to trustthemselves, which is huge.
When you are starting abusiness or when you are for my
clientele, when you are lettinga book speak, come up, release,
(08:38):
be released from you, it's a lotabout trusting it and trusting
yourself.
And so I knew that I wanted tostart my own business, where I
was heartbroken by all of thesehelpful healing books that might
never be live off of someone'scomputer unless they got a coach
to guide them through it.
So I had a.
I knew I needed a bridge, so Ihad a friend who had a business
(09:01):
and I went to him and said I'mstarting my own business.
I just need, like two yearscould I do marketing for you,
like?
And so I was the Director ofEngagement for his online
business and for two years.
And I started my businessJanuary of 2020 as a side hustle
and then went full-time Augustof 2021 and and then have.
(09:22):
When I first started it, it wasjust helping people write their
memoirs or works of nonfiction,building their author brand and
then submitting it to atraditional publishing company.
I walked them through that andthen, two years ago, I realized,
oh wait, I could hire peopleunder me and give others, give
authors all the royalties, allthe rights and make it more of a
(09:45):
partnership, give themeverything they need.
And so, after working withtraditional publishing companies
myself as an author, I justbrought in a team under me to do
everything people needed inthrough self-publishing on
Amazon.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (09:59):
That's super cool, do you?
Are you still writing?
Are you still writing your ownbooks?
Meg Calvin (10:05):
Yes, I have.
I'm starting my third book andso I'm four chapters in and I'm
giving myself it's.
It's a work of fiction, which Idon't know that art.
So I have a coach.
I've had a business coachthroughout this whole do since
2018, like most successfulbusinesses, I have a business
coach, and then I have a writingcoach, as now for my to learn
(10:26):
the art of fiction.
And so, because my other twobooks were nonfiction and memoir
, which is only just who I serveclientel right now, but I'm
learning fiction, so I can servepeople that way too.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (10:37):
Yeah, I love how you said to that you have a
business coach, which allsuccessful businesses have.
This is not even on our topic,but I want to touch on it.
Yes, because, yes, because Ithink it's so.
It's so interesting to me nowthat I've had the podcast I, I
do a little bit of coaching andmentoring on the side, I'll say
(11:01):
as well, but it's so interestingbecause, if you look at our
world, every successful teamlet's just say sports, for
example has a coach.
Yes, right, children haveteachers or they go to.
My husband owns a baseballtraining facility, so he coaches
(11:21):
kids all the time on how to getbetter at baseball.
And I feel like there's astigma still for people that are
like, oh, you have a businesscoach, you mustn't know what
you're doing or you mustn't knowright, how do you something you
need?
To me, it's just crazy, becausewhy do you not want someone to
coach you along the way thatseen a lot more than you have,
(11:44):
right?
Meg Calvin (11:45):
because in your business.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (11:46):
You're in your own kind of bubble.
You only see what's there.
So, like breaking that stigmaof a business coach has a
negative thing and turning itinto a positive, and I think
someone like you thank you forsaying what you said, because
it's so true, right?
Yes, everyone that's successful.
(12:07):
It goes back to a lot of thingsand coaching is one of them,
for sure.
Meg Calvin (12:12):
Oh, my goodness, 100%.
Yes, I was just on my coachingcall today with my coach and I
obviously love writing long formcopy, which is which is epic on
Facebook and it's built mybusiness is built on organic
social media marketing and hewas reminding me and pushing me
that I it would benefit me to goall in and do more, be more
(12:36):
strategic with my reels, whichI'm doing reels, but I'm leaning
a lot.
I lean more on my writing andso pushing me to times are
changing.
Can you, can you adjust yourstrat, your marketing strategy,
to include more videos ofyourself and make them inner,
make them edgy, educational andentertaining?
When I'm just like I'd ratherwrite, can I just write 2200
(12:59):
words?
It's like, yes, but get theirattention with a reason.
Anyway, yes, totally 100%.
Coaching is where it's at.
Having a coach, yes, and youwould never.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (13:08):
You might do a reel here, reel there, but you
never actually get into itwithout that kind of guidance
from the business coach.
Totally yeah.
And and the thing too for youis, when you're coaching now
creatives, other creatives andwriters, you can now share that
advice with them as well, yes,oh, definitely yes.
(13:31):
The giving wheel just keeps ongiving right.
That's what I always say okay,let's talk about being a
creative person, because I thinka lot of people that are
creatives don't think aboutturning that creativity into an
actual business or making thattheir career right, like you.
(13:51):
I know you said before that waskind of a side hassle for a
while.
Before you, you know, startedcoaching.
So how can a creative personsuch as a writer and creative
person can be lots of differentthings, not necessarily a writer
, but let's talk writer specifichow can they monetize their
work or make it a business?
Meg Calvin (14:10):
Yes, I will start by saying that the majority,
actually all of my clients I'vehad the privilege of serving 46
in four years, which is soexciting.
Wow, yeah, that's awesome.
A testament again to what youwere saying hire, invest in a
business coach.
He gets a lot of credit forthat, especially when it comes
to scaling your business.
(14:30):
Business coaches are huge,because I know other business
owners that when it comes timeto scale, it's scary and they
burn out and they getoverwhelmed and they quit.
Their side hustle doesn't growinto a full-time gig, a
full-time job.
And for me, another proof tohave a business coach for that
(14:52):
reason, for scaling.
Okay, so all of my clients theyhave made their, they make
their money, they monetize theirwork through their book being a
lead magnet, and so they arecoaches themselves or they are
business owners themselves.
They want speakingopportunities, they want group
(15:15):
coaching clients, they wantone-on-one coaching clients,
they want to plug up twice ayear event that they fly people
into, and the book is a leadmagnet for that, and so those
are the majority of my clients.
So we intentionally weintentionally crafted it as such
, as the book is a bridge into adeeper connection, a deeper
(15:37):
partnership, a different servicethat that author offers, and so
I will add I'll be morespecific in one part though that
even though it is a lead magnet, it is also, in a sense their
life's work that they're workingon, and so what I mean by that
is it's a coach who's writing amemoir or it's a coach that is
(16:00):
writing a non-transfer.
It's there, they've taken allof the content from their
evergreen courses.
We put it in book form and thenthey're infusing that
non-fiction book with lots ofanecdotal, personal moments, and
so I know now, in the world ofAI, that it's really easy to
have a book written that is alead magnet that does convert to
(16:22):
sales.
But I love I love working withpeople that their book is going
to be more than just a leadmagnet although that's what it
is.
It's more than that, and okay.
So if creativity is a businessfor someone they and their
writers I would say the quickestway to monetize that would be
(16:43):
to leverage their creativity byeasily making $5,000 a month
through email copywriting foranother coach or another
business owner that doesn't havethe skill set of writing and I
know lots of great fiction andnon-fiction writers that also,
along with their books, theywrite direct response copy for a
company, and that is, that'sjust one client they can easily
(17:07):
make 5k a month from.
If your creativity lies in audio.
There are so many ways.
We're on it right now.
Podcasting comes to mind, andthen also I've I offer audio
book packages as well.
Clients, we spend a six monthor a year together birthing and
(17:27):
releasing their book, and thenthey fly here to Kansas and we
have studio time, we have aaudio book retreat weekend, and
most the authors I work withthey want their own voice on the
audio book.
But I've had one that wanteddifferent voices, so I got to
pay people as narrators, asvoiceover actors.
So that's another way toleverage your creativity if your
(17:48):
creativity is in your voicepodcast, monetizing that or
audio book work, and so there'sso much opportunity for those
who are creative to help othersget their message out in the
world that don't have, do notfeel the pleasure in writing and
don't have, don't have thebandwidth or capacity or the
desire to learn how to write.
(18:09):
Well when it comes to copyright, copywriting, yeah, that makes
sense.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (18:14):
I mean, I know for myself.
I said at the beginning andpeople that listen to the
podcast know I was I wrote achapter and I did not use AI to
write it.
I actually wrote it, but I'mnot a writer.
But I wrote a chapter in acollective book, so it was
called Conversations Over Coffeeand it was, I think there was
like 20, some authors in it Ishould know the exact number but
(18:36):
we're all entrepreneurs orbusiness owners or in that, that
kind of realm, right, and weall wrote our chapter about our
journey or our life or triumphover a tragedy or whatever it
happened to be.
But I know, when I wasapproached and by the woman that
(18:58):
put the book together, who wasfriend of mine, but I actually
kind of laughed at her because Isaid I'm not a writer, I do not
know how to write, what could Ipossibly write that would be
interesting to people?
And you know, and she reallyencouraged me in saying, like
your story is interesting, evenif you don't think it is, other
(19:20):
people do or they want to hearabout your story, and it really
is a, for me, a lead magnetright to say, hey, check out my
story in this book.
But I didn't realize how much Iwould or how much I enjoyed it
until.
I actually was doing it, youknow it kind of for me.
(19:42):
I said this was a greatopportunity, but the enjoyment
that I got from that actually Ithink was more self fulfilling
than the actual opportunity ofit being a lead magnet.
Shauna Foster (19:57):
Yes, oh, that's so true.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (19:59):
Yeah, and I think there's probably lots of
people like me that can come toyou right and say, hey, I want
to tell my story, or I want totalk about a topic or whatever
it happens to be, that really intheir head they might be
thinking, oh, it's going to begood for my business, promote my
business, but really there's,there's more to it than that,
isn't there?
Meg Calvin (20:19):
Oh, yes, yes, I hold the belief and it's been proven
time and time again that if abook idea is speaking up to you,
it's speaking up louder andlouder for two reasons.
One is to give you the joy andthe pleasure and the
breakthrough that it's going to.
It's going to give you bywriting it.
Every client I've served whenthey write that deep place, we
(20:42):
go within to listen to the bookand write what it's telling us.
That is the same deep place wego to trust ourselves, as I said
earlier, to listen to ourtruest desires to heal layers of
wounds that believe in us nowthat we're ready to heal certain
things.
(21:02):
And so we birth a book.
We birth a breakthrough, likeevery client I've served is.
Either as soon as the bookdropped and hit best seller on
Amazon, they got out of thatunhealthy marriage they'd been
struggling with for eight yearswhere there was abuse happening
or something where it wasdivorce was best like, or they
(21:23):
moved to France after thinkingabout it for seven years, or
they changed jobs, or theycommitted today I make my side
hustle, my full hustle or theyhad that sweaty palm
conversation with the relativethey've been putting off for
decades.
And it was because I believe webirth books.
We birth breakthroughs.
They give us the confidencethat we've been seeking forever.
And so those are sub points.
(21:44):
But the two reasons the bookspeaks up is to give us the
pleasure and the breakthrough.
It's time for us to evolve toup level in our life, and so
that's why the book is speakingup.
And the second reason isspeaking up is because our ideal
reader, our target audience,their need for to be served by
our specific book, with ourspecific personality and our
(22:07):
specific style, with ourspecific scars and our specific
goals and our specific niche,they're hungry.
They're getting our ideareaders getting hungrier, like I
wish someone with everythingthat would describe you would
write this book, and then that'swhy the idea is getting louder.
So when we trust it and webirth and release that book,
it's, it's um, it's happening injust the right time, yeah, so
(22:31):
yes, a lot is happening when wewrite books, yeah, are there
ways to know what people want toknow about?
Mackenzie Kilshaw (22:38):
I mean, how do you, like you can have a a
lot of things in your story youcan tell, or that you want to
tell, um, but how do you knowthat people are needing that?
Meg Calvin (22:50):
Yes, that's a great question.
There's a yes and no to this.
What's coming up for me is I amobsessed with the comedy
through Monty Python.
Do you know them from theseventies?
They did, of course you do.
Of course you do.
I met them in high schoolEnglish class and I was in love.
(23:14):
Um, I thought where have theseguys been all my life?
Well, thankfully I marriedsomeone who also is in love with
them and loves that kind ofcomedy, and we watched so many
documentaries.
On one documentary, John Cleese,a member of the troop, was
interviewed and he said when BBCcame to like, he said get it
(23:34):
right, meg.
He said our show Monty PythonFlying Circus would not exist
today if we were to do it today.
And the interviewer was like oh, what do you mean?
It was so great.
And he said because today theyare so obsessed with BBC.
He was talking BBC.
BBC is obsessed with the dataand the trends.
And what do millennials findfunny?
What do gen x find funny?
And he said in the earlyseventies, when BBC came to
(23:58):
Monty Python, they never askedthose questions and the guys
couldn't even describe whattheir book was going to be about
, but they knew they needed totake what they were doing, what
brought them joy as writerstogether, comedic writers and
actors.
They just knew what broughtthem joy and they wanted to
share it and that was enough.
And so I teach the writers Iserve and I follow this in my
(24:19):
own business too to be looselyaware of the trends.
But if the trends are bringingyou to an impasse where you're
like gosh that does that,doesn't honor what wants to come
through me as a writer, thenignore that trend and so
honoring what wants to comethrough you matters most.
(24:40):
Another example is my secondbook was satirical but also
self-help and theological and Ishared about.
I shared about purity, cultureand the church and shame that
comes we're from that can comefrom that and healing that
within myself and loving mysexuality and loving my body and
growing to love both thosethings as I age.
(25:00):
And that chapter got the mostamount of feedback.
So many people the readers DMto me telling me their stories
about shame and guilt around sexand body image.
So I went to I was sitting init with my business coach and I
thought I know there's a part ofme that thinks, whoa, my third
(25:21):
book should be about sex andbody, but I don't want to write.
I don't want to write that book.
So what's the lesson in thisfor me and what we, as we
dissected it together and heasked all the great, all the
great questions and listened tomy way of being, which I strive
to do myself as a coach what wecame, what I came up with, was
the lesson.
There was that readers lovedwhen I was vulnerable.
(25:42):
That's why that chapter hit home, and so can I take that
vulnerability into my next bookor my next workshop or whatever.
So I would say first andforemost, instead of asking
ourselves I love this question,by the way, I'm going to land
the plane, I promise instead ofasking, okay, what do, what does
(26:03):
my ideal client want to readabout, when there is a time for
that, 100%, totally do a Googleforum and when you're planning a
workshop.
But I feel the most, what'smost important to look for is in
your, in your area, your nicheor your industry.
What grinds your gears the most?
What?
Bill Highbull's, senior pastor,Willow Creek not anymore,
(26:25):
though that's a long story.
Anyway, he had this book in 04that was called Holy Discontent
and he said whatever area makesyou the most angry in your life,
like when you see other peoplemessing it up or not, pay
attention, listen to that,because the divine wants you to
make a difference in that andknow that that doesn't tick
everyone off, like you mightthink.
(26:47):
Oh, everyone gets ticked off bythe use of styrofoam cups.
They sadly don't.
For me, I get really ticked off.
Even before I became a writingcoach, it really ticked.
My hand was shaking.
That's how passionate I was.
I get really ticked off by thestat that our attention spans
are getting shorter.
Therefore, our nonfiction booksneed to be shorter they need to
(27:08):
be on 20,000 to 30,000 words,which is usually less than 100
pages and that we need to lowerthe average, the age.
The reading age that we writewith Direct response copy is
written at a third to fifthgrade reading language, which is
good for direct response copyon your website or email
marketing, but not in your book.
People are smart.
They'll stick around for a longbook if it's written well.
(27:29):
So the fact that that grinds mygears back in 2016, it wasn't no
one else cared, but I wasgetting all fired up, so I would
tell someone that if there'ssomething that really an area of
life that's just grinding theirgears lately and they feel that
they have the gifts, theexperience to say something
about it, to trust, and it'saligned with their target market
(27:50):
although I hold that looselytoo, because every entrepreneur
is, we evolve, so you might havein every book of yours could be
to a different target audience.
So listening to that too, okay,I'm going to.
I'll be quiet now.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (28:07):
No, that was no.
No, that was really good,because I think that's the
that's the thing.
As entrepreneurs, our brainsare always coming up with the
next idea or the next thingright, how do I get more revenue
?
Or how do I share this lesson,or how do I, whatever?
It is right.
And I think the thing now is wehear so much in marketing about
(28:28):
your to be specific to yourtarget market segments, which I
fully agree with, but I don'tknow that, as a creative, you
should try to, you know,pigeonhole yourself or whatever
it is, and say, okay, I'm onlydoing this because I think this
is what they're looking for,because you might find a whole
(28:49):
new segment or a new marketmarket, as you said, by
something that grinds you gearsor something that you're really
passionate or excited about, andthat might be actually a new
revenue stream for you 100%, yes, yeah, and the the part.
Meg Calvin (29:03):
As entrepreneurs, we have to feel pleasure and
passion, and that'll sustain usmore than anything.
Oh for sure, yeah, yeah,totally.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (29:12):
And your points to being vulnerable,
genuine, authentic.
I I just know this as a I don'tknow as a scientist scientific
fact, but I know it is a factfrom every business person,
entrepreneur, that I've seen themore authentic and the more
genuine they are, the moresuccessful they are.
Oh, yes, right when people seethe real you and they understand
(29:36):
you and they know what you'reabout.
They're more likely to supportyou right, and you can't.
You can't be the person foreveryone, but the people that
appreciate you and that agreewith you and that, like what
you're saying, they're going tosupport you 100%.
Meg Calvin (29:54):
Oh, it's so true, yes, yeah.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (29:56):
It is, isn't it it is?
I should find a stat on thatlike a real life one, not just
me saying it, .
Meg Calvin (30:04):
It is, yes, it reminds me of, as we're moving
out of the age of information,where we can learn anything on
our toilets from our phone,which is disgusting, but it's
true, true, yeah, it's true.
It is respect and trust.
So no one wants to pay to learnfrom you or buy your content,
whether it's a book or a podcastor whatever it is.
They don't want to pay you forthat till they respect you,
(30:25):
trust you and relate to you, andthat comes through
vulnerability.
So there's, there's your stat,there's your fact, there's your
evidence.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (30:33):
Your proof.
We'll just say we'll just sayit's 100%.
So okay, how does a creative'sbusiness look different from
Meg Calvin (30:44):
Yes.
love this question so much,like all your questions.
I think I said that the wholeshow.
I love this question.
I love this question.
What's coming to me is it wouldbenefit every business owner to
have time in their week wherethey are playing, because and
that looks different foreveryone because we are so much
(31:07):
more resourceful and adaptive webrainstorm better, we dream
better when we are playing, so Iwould think every business
owner needs time for that.
I think the amount of time thatthere is a safe space to play
and create is different, thoughif you are creative in business.
I think creatives need more ofthat.
(31:29):
I'm feeling from my experienceas a creative.
My business became extremelysuccessful when I made it a
priority in my week two.
I also sing, like I said before, so I sing and acquire on my
(31:49):
lunch break.
I started an improv troupe thatmeets weekly.
I have relationships in placethat nurture my priority of play
and nurture my need fordiversity as well in my business
.
Like you said, changingspontaneity and, as you said,
(32:12):
entrepreneurs we think more.
Entrepreneurs, people that arewired to be entrepreneurial
think more thoughts than someonethat's not wired to be one, and
so we need routines andfriendships and marriages and
parent-child relationships I'malso a mom parent-child
relationships that support ourentrepreneurial way of being.
And then the other differenceis we all know in building teams
(32:38):
over the years that you want todelegate whatever's not your
area of genius, and I would saythat's 100% true, obviously for
creatives as well.
Delegating the for my world.
I have teammates that of course, do cover design and fonts,
formatting, copy and lineediting, research on categories
(32:59):
for Amazon and keywords thosethings that are obviously cover
design is art is a creativething, but the other task or
more in line for those withengineering type minds or
scientific type minds.
So delegating as much aspossible where you can show up
as the creative.
So for me that is openingmyself up for making a priority
(33:20):
where I am doing what I lovemost in my business, which is
collaborating with authorssitting in the holy, sacred
space of our one hour Zoom call,where we're asking deep
questions about this chapter orabout their brand for their, and
helping them align who they arewith the frequency of their
brand.
So that creative work, thatdeep, sub-conscious unblocking
(33:44):
that usually we call it writer'sblock, but it usually has
nothing to do with words on thepage.
There's something much deeperusually going on, and that's
what I love most.
So delegating the rest.
I actually wrote a little poem,not a poem, it was a post.
It's called Dear Lover ofWriters, and could I read that
(34:05):
with that serve?
Of course, really, really, itis short.
I think this goes for allcreatives that are making a
business out of, that aremonetizing their creativity, and
I think this, as I said earlier, I think it would benefit all
business owners to be morecreative.
But the amount of time thatsomeone who is a creative needs
(34:26):
to, I'll just read it.
I'll just read it, just read it.
Just read it.
Okay, it says Dear Lover,there's something I've been
meaning to tell you for quite awhile now.
It's something you probablyhave picked up on, so I'm just
going to come clean about it.
I'm a writer.
I've wanted to tell you andmyself this for years, and while
this news might make younervous, here is some guidance
for us to continue to love.
(34:47):
Well, there will be times whenI need you to be patient with me
.
There will be times when youjust paid the bill at dinner and
just at that exact moment,inspiration strikes and I need
five extra minutes to jot achapter idea down on a napkin.
Don't worry, this is one of theleast socially awkward
situations that you will succumbto when you fall for an
artistic wordsmith.
(35:07):
There will be times when I needextra grace for my overactive
imagination and my overlyanalytical mind.
Within these great virtues hidemy vices.
If you could support alifestyle that daily gets me out
of my beautiful mind and backinto my body through loving
touch, movement and socializing,that would be appreciated.
(35:29):
I fell for you because you arefun, after all, and I will
forever return to and requirethat.
There will be times when I havequestions about my best-selling
book goals or lack theinspiration to write.
It's not your job as my loverto know the answers, nor is it
your job to inspire me.
You are my lover, not my muse.
I will receive your.
(35:51):
I don't know.
Do you need a night off fromparenting once a week to find an
answer?
I can cook and put the tiny oneto bed while you research with
deep appreciation.
There will be times when I havecrippling fear and anxiety
around the following and thensome what if readers don't find
me smart enough to write?
What if I fail and readers findtypos in my book?
What if, somehow, an exactversion of my book was written
(36:13):
72 years ago by a way betterauthor and some random reader
calls me out for plagiarism overan email?
What if I freeze and sound likea moron on a podcast?
What if people think I'm a fake?
What if they find out that Isometimes feel like a fake?
What if I'm too successful andI'm not present enough with my
kids?
What if my book rocks the boattoo much and I lose my church
friends and my dad is no longerproud of me?
(36:34):
In these moments, love, it's notyour job to save me from my
fear or my anxiety.
It's only your job to holdspace for my feelings, to hold
space for our utter belief in mebeing who I am a writer.
You are my lover, after all,not my coach or my therapist,
nor is it their job to save meeither.
All in all, know that I in noway expect you to save me,
(36:58):
inspire me or, heck even, tolove my book.
I didn't expect you to becomemy target audience for my book.
I expect you to simply supportme becoming the best version of
myself as a writer.
You're my lover, after all, notmy client nor my customer.
That is all now love.
Thank you for hearing me, forseeing me and supporting me as I
(37:19):
serve.
How I will serve my readers isdue largely to how well you have
loved me.
Ps it's okay if you're afraid.
I'm afraid sometimes too.
With great love, the writer,you fell hard for.
There's so much there about howwe're wired as creatives that
(37:39):
most of us are highly sensitive,most overly imaginative.
There needs to be routines andrelationships in place that
support all of that as good.
It's very good to see a treeand then want to whip out a pin
and write about it.
It's not crazy.
It's good when the muse showsup.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (37:57):
While you were reading that.
First of all, thank you,because that was really
interesting to hear for you as awriter, me as a not writer, as
you were reading that in my mind, that is me replace writing or
the book with business.
That was me as an entrepreneur.
(38:18):
Everything in there, because Idon't look at the tree and want
to write about it.
I look at the tree and think,how can I make this tree a
business?
Yes, what is it that can make?
How can this make money?
I really resonate with that.
I think people listening willas well, because it works for
(38:39):
entrepreneurs too.
100% right, I love that.
I love that.
Thank you for sharing.
Meg, looking back at your yearsof being an entrepreneur, do
you have a most important lesson?
Meg Calvin (38:57):
Yes, I it before you even answered the question.
It was like yep, here it is.
It is that you are the queen ofyour queendom and if you're a
man listening, you are the kingof your kingdom.
It is your business, and sowhat you say goes.
And because your audience ispeople, they're people that have
(39:17):
practices in place to be ofintegrity.
They are good people.
They are striving to do well.
Their business is going tobenefit the world.
They can trust themselves.
To say that, when I was scalingmy business, I had people coming
under me and I found myselffalling back into my former ways
as a minister and I waseverybody's best friend and I
(39:42):
would have meetings withtechnicians and I would ask
things like how can we make thisa win for you?
Okay, you need more time onthat?
Okay, okay, let me redo this.
And how can I make youcomfortable?
And then I found myselfcoaching them and they weren't
clients, they were technicians,and so it was such an energy
suck and I started to doubtmaybe I don't want to do
(40:02):
everything for authors.
There's a lot of people likethe book doulas I think it's two
women.
They'll help you write the bookand edit the book, but they
won't do the publishing and themarketing for you.
And I'm like I get it.
I get why they just do thatbecause, oh well, then I realize
.
Oh wait, my job would be easierif I just come home to the
truth of what I say goes as thequeen for my technicians, or not
(40:25):
my clients, the people that Ihire a contract work with.
I'm not going to coach them.
If I need something in threemonths, it has to be in three
months.
Is that a win for you?
It's not, okay, I'm going tofind someone else.
Thank you for what you've doneInstead of and the mistake I was
making them was for a season asI was growing was I was
(40:46):
treating them like they werepartners in my business, and
they're not.
They're not.
And so, yes, I would say you totrust yourself as queen of your
queendom, and there's nothing.
Not, it is selfish, and itshould be selfish, because what
I'm building and what youraudience, who's listening to
this right now, what they'rebuilding is good and what's
(41:07):
going to make it better iswhat's inside the head and the
heart and the soul of the queenof that queendom.
And so be selfish.
You are the queen of yourqueendom and I also.
I also love to always sharethis short Dolly Parton story
because she's one of my idols.
Dolly Parton her accountanttold her if you open this
amusement park, it will ruin youfinancially.
(41:27):
It will ruin you and do not dothis.
This is a horrible businessdecision.
And Dolly said nope, my gutsays to do it.
And that amusement park ismaking her so much money and is
helping so many people.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (41:40):
I've never been to Dollywood, but it is on
my list.
Meg Calvin (41:42):
Yes, yes, and so I think that she's and if, oh,
that's another people, friendslistening to this go to Netflix,
watch Dolly Parton'sdocumentary.
I am something.
It tells.
Just there's so many lessons inthere, as as business owners,
for us to listen to, about herown journey of building her
empire, and there were just somany moments where she, she was.
(42:03):
It was obvious, she knew herrole as queen of the queendom
she was building.
It was so powerful.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (42:10):
You know what .
That's great advice, and Ithink too, especially for people
that are just starting out.
You want to be your employee orthe people you're working with,
friend in the sense you thinkthat's going to get you further,
but actually it can kind ofbite you in the butt.
So I agree with you it's it'snot going to be a tyrant about
(42:30):
it, but this is the directionwe're going and this is how
we're getting there and this howlong it's taking.
And if it doesn't work for you,then you're probably not the
right person to be on the ship,right.
Meg Calvin (42:41):
Yes, 100%.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (42:43):
Is there anything you wish you had known
or you could tell yourself fiveyears ago or 10 years ago?
Meg Calvin (42:48):
Yeah, everything felt so divine in the timing all
meant to be.
I'm thinking of my own regrets.
It's okay if you don't have any.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (42:57):
I mean, the thing is yeah.
Meg Calvin (42:59):
I do have one that's coming up.
I will keep it short, and thatis that when you're in, when
you're in the coaching world,this is.
This has only happened once tome, thankfully, because sales
calls and expiration calls canweed out.
As the queen of my queendom, oneof my rules is I will not work
with someone who I wouldn't goget coffee with them.
(43:21):
And if there's not frequencyalignment with us and they're
not service oriented, I Ithought it doesn't feel like a
match.
I won't work with them becauseit's such an emotionally
appropriately emotionallyintimate journey and and so I
can, and I have a process ofGoogle form before someone even
gets on a call with me thatthey're I'm sure I've read
(43:41):
enough to know they're, they'reserious about their goals.
Um, what I wish I would haveknown before, oh gosh, is that
you can eat.
My biggest mistake, that I, mybiggest regret, is I had one
client that I felt it was not amatch and they offered they
(44:06):
really wanted to work with me,so they offered more money and
and I said I took them on and I,I regret it.
And so the lesson there is, Ithink, for coaches it's okay to
let go of clients.
It's okay to do refunds.
I'm so thankful, I've neverhad to refund anyone on this
(44:28):
journey.
But there was one client that II did not look forward to
getting on coaching calls withand I could have.
I could have stopped that trainearlier.
Yeah, and fire a client.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (44:44):
I Fire client yes.
Shauna Foster (44:45):
Yes.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (44:46):
And coach or not.
If you're service based at allor you have a business where
people come to you and thatperson causes you more grief
than joy.
It's okay to say we're not theplace for you or I'm not the
person for you.
And I think that's hard ashumans, because we don't want to
say no to people and we want tohelp people, yes.
(45:07):
But I think that's a goodlesson and and it's just okay to
say no or break up with someoneyes, client based right yeah,
100%, I think it's.
It's good.
I learned that very many yearsinto my business, many years.
Okay, I dealt with many peoplethat I did not really like, but
(45:30):
once again they were.
I owned a clothing store, so Imean they purchased an item and
left, but it was not pleasurablefor me or my staff, and I
realized after many years thatif they didn't shop with me
anymore, I didn't care, becausethat financial gain was not
(45:50):
worth the mental anguish and Ithink that's a lesson that's
good for people to know.
So thank you for sharing.
I appreciate it.
Pleasure, make work and peoplefind you.
I know they're going to want tolearn more about you.
Maybe they're creative, thatwants they're like okay, I'm
ready, I want to, I want towrite a book or I want to learn
more.
So I think that's the bestplace for them to come.
Meg Calvin (46:10):
Yes, I love to connect with them at Instagram,
@hey Meg Calvin, and then, ifthey want, I have a free gift
for your audience.
That is awesome.
It's a short video trainingthree ways to make marketing
your book more fun and lessfrustrating and the marketing
(46:31):
principles that I teach in thatthose three steps are good for
marketing any type of business,not just the author brand.
So you can get that trainingthree ways to make marketing
your book more fun, lessfrustrating at www.
MegCalvin.
com and they can get that freetraining there.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (46:50):
Awesome.
Thank you so much, Meg.
I appreciate you being on andappreciate you sharing your
story with us.
Yes, In the last 46 minutesjust flies by I don't know how.
So thank you so much and, toeverybody listening, we'll see
you on the next episode.
Thanks again for listening andI'll see you on the next episode
(47:51):
.
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