April 23, 2024 • 47 mins
Have you ever been transported back in time by the mere hint of a fragrance, to a place where memories blossom like flowers in an eternal spring? This week, my guest, the enchanting Palma Cafolla, unfolds the petals of her story, from the aromatic gardens of her Irish childhood to the heart of her flourishing business, Zingaro Floral Perfumery. As we waltz through her life's chronicles, Palma's profound knowledge of botanical perfumes, seasoned with anecdotes of her journey from arranging flowers for royalty in London to establishing her niche in the perfumery world, is bound to stir your soul.
Palma's artistry goes beyond mere scent creation; she captures the essence of nature and memories, weaving them into olfactory masterpieces that resonate with personal narratives. We discuss the delicate balance of blending natural elements to evoke emotions, and the stark contrast between synthetic fragrances and the authentic charm of botanical perfumes. The heartfelt story of a custom perfume that anchored a client to a cherished memory stands testament to the power of Palma's craft. Her interactions with celebrities and individuals alike reveal the universal language of scent, and how it transcends the boundaries of our lives.
As the conversation unfolds, Palma's resilience shines through—a beacon for anyone navigating the unpredictable seas of life. From the bustling streets of Dublin to the serene winters of Saskatoon, her journey of self-discovery and growth is a narrative that inspires and offers wisdom to our own paths. We wrap up with reflective advice to the younger self and extend an invitation to experience the wonders of Zingaro Floral Perfumery.
Join us for an episode that promises a bouquet of inspiration, reminding us that true passion is the most fragrant bloom in the garden of life.
Mackenzie Kilshaw Co. offers comprehensive business coaching, and consulting tailored to your needs.
With Mackenzie's award winning entrepreneurial expertise in strategy, leadership, business development, branding, website development, social media management, SEO, sales and customer service training and more, clients receive personalized guidance to drive growth and success.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Shauna Foster (00:20):
Winning will help you learn the hard lessons the
easy way, with guidance fromcelebrated entrepreneurs and
business leaders.
It's fun, it's informative,it's winning Hello welcome to
Winning.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (00:32):
I'm your host , Mackenzie Kilshaw, and today's
guest is Palma Cafolla.
Palma, how are you?
Palma Cafolla (00:37):
I'm great Mackenzie.
How are you doing?
Mackenzie Kilshaw (00:40):
I'm so good and I'm so happy that you're
here.
Palma is a friend of mine.
She, I think, has the coolestcareer that I've ever heard of.
I didn't even know it wassomething you can do, a career,
career of, and she makesperfumes and the most beautiful
scents and we're going to talk alot about that today.
But she was born and raised inIreland and she spent years
(01:06):
wandering in her mother's andher grandmother's gardens.
Um which was just 17, she wentto Europe exploring the streets.
She happened on the floristshop and she became a floral
designer and you actually evenmade arrangements for the Royal
Family, which I think we'lltouch on because that's super
cool.
Palma does love arrangingflowers, but really it was the
(01:30):
scent of the flowers that reallyshe was, I think, passionate
about is a good word.
And she is the owner of ZingaroFloral Perfumery in Victoria BC
, which is a really cool shop.
If you're in Victoria you haveto stop in.
But, Palma, I'm so happy you'rehere.
Palma Cafolla (01:52):
Okay, well, you kind of had it all there in a
nutshell, Mackenzie, I guess mylove affair started from a
really, really young age.
My mother was very passionateabout her garden and flowers and
it was like something from likethe garden.
It was beautiful.
She threw her life's work intoher garden and then, on the
(02:15):
other hand, my Italiangrandmother had a culinary
garden garden.
So I was surrounded by two verypowerful, protective women as a
young girl and an Italianfamily and an Irish family, and
myself and my sister, two younggirls.
It was like the Gestapo on topof us.
(02:38):
It was like we weren't allowedto move.
If one mother wasn't watchful,the grandmother was watchful.
So I spent my days in the garden.
My mother was very strict in asense, where, you know, we
wouldn't be let go out afterschool like we'd, you know, get
home, and she used to always sayto myself and my sister you
(02:59):
know, you don't need anyone,you've got your sister.
And that was the mentalitygoing up for the two of us.
You know, to this day, mysister and I still say that to
each other you don't need anyone, you've got me.
So that's how it was.
So I would just wander thegarden and I had a very wondrous
(03:20):
, mystical mind that used to gooff with the fairies and I
always got into trouble for it.
But I would like take mymother's roses and, you know,
mash the petals off and addwater and powder, and I'd make
all these different precautionsand put a few little pieces in
(03:41):
as well, just to see if they doanything with it.
That's how it started and mygrandmother had, like the real
strong herbs you know forItalian cooking.
I'd be doing stuff there.
So my senses were infused froma very young age and they were
very alert and you know that wasreally it until I hit 17.
(04:10):
I was, you know, very restless.
I never liked school.
I wasn't academic in any way.
You know, if there was a windowI would open the window.
If you know, somewhere I was,you know, awake.
I always went off intodifferent worlds and they were
all magical worlds and I'd getlost in them.
(04:33):
And the minute I was 17, Ihopped on a boat for the plane
fare and I had, I think,something like 90 pounds and,
much to my mother's dismay, Ileft and I went to London and I
walked down this little alley inone of those beautiful back
(04:55):
streets in London that's whereall you know around the big fair
and that and I walked into thislike amazing flower store,
that's what it was, and yeah,they had a sign on the window,
apprentice, and I went in and Ibasically just you know, I told
(05:16):
them that I knew nothing but Iwas passionate and I would do
anything.
And myself and a New Zealandgirl both were taken on at the
same time and I have to say itwas probably the best experience
of my life because myself and aNew Zealand girl we're still
friends to this day.
We were both she was, I think,18, I was 17 and we actually got
(05:40):
a place to live together andstarted our floral design career
there, and we would.
They were very high end floraldesigners, like he was a Dutch
master and we were sent from allthe.
(06:01):
They were appointed to anembassy with between.
So either in London you couldsee that quite a bit if a
majesty got food projects fromyour store or whatever, you
would get this to say you wereappointed, so it means that's
(06:21):
who she went to to get the food.
You were appointed as theflorist, so that's kind of how
it.
To get her food.
We were appointed as theflorists, so that's kind of how
it goes.
And you'll see beautiful placesaround London that would have
this appointment to the queen atthe time.
Obviously the king now right,yeah, so we would go around
after the master florists aroundall central London hotels and
(06:45):
literally go after them.
That's what we did, we, andevery day go around all central
London and fix and order thearrangements.
You know these were arrangementswhich were like three times my
size, you know, on like 10-footladders, designing and doing
whatever right, and that's kindof where my training started.
(07:10):
We had her name was, and sheshe was like the color of the
dragon and she would literallynot let us use any mechanical,
sorry name.
They've been given a name.
Literally not let us use anymechanical, sorry common name
for flowers which used to say tous they've been given a common
name and made sure you use it,and we wouldn't be allowed to.
(07:33):
You know, say, baby's breath,right, you don't have to use
Cecilia.
Or you know, Birds of Paradise,Strelitzia.
So it was all very tough but Ihave to say I was trained so
rigorously in this business thatI was taken up with it.
(07:54):
It just took over my life.
And then the scent came backagain Because, as I was working,
all these botanicals, all theseinfusions were coming at me
like why doesn't anything smelllike this?
And I'd spend my days, you know, my day off I'd have very
little tea and I'd be in alittle bed, sit in London.
(08:15):
I'd go around beautiful stores,you know, like Liberty, Harrods
, all the designer stores inLondon.
And you know, dream, get lost inmy new world.
Now that I get lost, I'd be inDior, dreaming that I could rest
in Dior one day.
I'd be in Chanel.
I'd be dreaming, you know, andI'm always a way of, you know,
(08:38):
pulling it off, because myItalian grandma was very she
would be very about how youbought your clothes.
You know she said it doesn'tmatter how much money you've got
, but you have to dress well,you know, and you make sure it
has to be.
You know, if you buy a jacketit has to be of couture, you
know, so that it will last you.
(08:59):
And you know different thingslike that.
She trained us really, reallywell and I would go and dream in
all these doors and the senseand the magic.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (09:13):
You are a dreamer.
You still are, I think.
As far as I know, you still area dreamer and that's a great
thing because of what you do, Ithink it really lends itself
well, and that's, I think, partof like I always say what you do
is magic, and I think that'swhy right yeah, well, you know,
it's about getting lost in itand scent takes you to places,
(09:35):
right?
Palma Cafolla (09:35):
Yes, and that's what it did.
So then I started my journey,as I was floral designer.
Then I started my journey,training as a perfumer.
I just fell into it.
I'm like I want to make the wayperfume was originally made,
you know, not synthetic, notchemical, real the dirt, the
(09:57):
soil, flower, with everycomposition that went with it.
Right, and that's what took meto to grass and fence so and so
you started really hands-on.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (10:10):
You just jumped into hands-on training.
Like you said, they were veryum proper on the proper names of
flowers and whatnot, and I'msure even I know years ago I
didn't realize that, like Birdsof Paradise wasn't Birds of
Paradise, it actually had a nameand that we just that's like
the common name.
Right, yeah, so you do that.
(10:32):
Then how do you become aperfumer?
Like what are?
How do you go from floral toactually becoming a real
perfumer?
Palma Cafolla (10:44):
Well, in all honesty, Mackenzie, they go hand
in hand because they're just adifferent element of the same
thing.
Right, the flowers have so manydifferent layers.
So one layer the design andbeauty, the visual and then the
(11:08):
other layer is close your eyes,it's essential, right, and
that's so.
To me, it was like nature.
I was just opening up Pandora'sbox a little bit more and
jumping right in, you know.
So it went from.
You know learning the chemicalbasis of it, like the.
(11:30):
You know the reactions, thedo's, the don'ts, the.
You know the base notes, theheart notes, the top notes,
different things like that.
There's a lot of challenges fora botanical, like a natural
consumer, and what that is is.
It's a very murky world, in asense, where synthetic is very
(11:57):
linear.
If it wants to take you to rose, it'll take you straight to
rose, whereas botanical, it'lltake you to the rose.
It'll also take you to the soil, the leaf, the composing of the
flower, it brings you to everylevel of that.
So, as a know, I'm a know.
(12:21):
But as say someone likeyourself who has a passion for
perfume, you've got to askyourself what moves you?
You know what, what?
Mackenzie Kilshaw (12:32):
Where do you fit in with your senses and you
know we're still in a worldwhere 70% are still caught on
synthetic because we don't knowwhat it actually even smells
like yeah, it's crazy to me toowhen I remember when I went to
Paris um years years ago, um,and smelt real, because really,
(12:56):
living I grew up in Saskatchewannot to say there wasn't real
here, but a lot of it smells itjust smells synthetic, it
doesn't smell real.
Um, you know, you go to ShoppersDrug Mart or The Bay that's
really going to get your your umscent and smelling real perfume
.
And then I do want to just kindof tell the audience about how
(13:16):
you and I got to know each other, because you actually um made
for me but it was, I guess, acollaborative effort.
But I went to Palma's home andI learned so much about creating
a scent and she actuallycreated a scent for me, um, and
(13:37):
it was in kind of memory orhonor of my mom, um, but the
experience was so amazingbecause, as you had said, it's
about how it makes you feel andI remember you giving me
swatches and me smelling thingsand saying, oh my gosh, this
reminds me of when I was alittle girl and I was with my
(13:58):
grandma and my mom and itliterally took me to that time
and then I knew I want to usethis geranium.
I remember it was one of thewas one of the scents, but I
want to use this in my scentbecause it was my.
You know it evoked that emotionfrom me.
Palma Cafolla (14:17):
Yeah.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (14:18):
And that was such a great experience and what
I had my clothing store TwoFifty Two Boutique and we sold
the perfume there and honestly,yeah, people would smell that
and say I've never smelledanything like this.
And it's because you're right,it was, it's real, it's not
synthetic and it it's such adifferent experience.
(14:39):
And even now, if I have a fewfriends that still wear the
scent I still wear the scent, ofcourse, but I'll smell them and
I'm like I know what you'rewearing right, because it just
has that.
I know what you're wearingright because it just has that.
I know what it is and it wassuch a great experience for me
and it really did.
You know, every time I smellthat, I think of my mom and that
(15:01):
was the purpose of it and ithappened.
So I want to thank you for that.
But that's your expertise,right.
That just shows that you're sogood at what you do expertise,
right.
Palma Cafolla (15:16):
That just shows that you're so good at what you
do well.
It just I have to say that wasa beautiful experience for me as
well, because I felt I was ableto bring me to that one
connection through scent, right.
Yeah, and it was a verymeaningful experience because,
if I remember right, your, yourcousin, the uh was it, your
cousin was with you as well, myniece, your niece, yes, and it
(15:36):
was just beautiful because youknow she was in the same
predicament.
It was like a connection thatgot people together through
scent, and scent does that.
You know it brings us to goodand bad memories.
You know, um, like it's amazing, the, my very first perfume.
(16:03):
So it was very and um, it waswas originally called The Earth
Of My Soul and it literally wasthe earth of my soul at that
time and every ingredient evokedsomething.
And you know, when the wholecomposition was put together and
the formula was done, it waslike, oh my god, and for years
(16:27):
couldn't revisit that perfumebecause it actually moved me too
much, too much, yeah, and onlyin the last, I would say, year,
two years, I've started wearingit again.
It got renamed when we wentcommercial and that and things
like that.
But definitely, you know, itbrings us to places, it moves us
(16:50):
.
You know, I did have some, didhave some people in the store
like this one perfume inparticular and I think it's
haunting.
It's called Violetta and it'sbased, it's a bouger means it's
a green floral and it's justlike a symphony of violets when
it bursts open.
(17:11):
But years ago violet perfumewas extremely popular in the 20s
, 30s.
You know a lot of women intheir 60s, 70s, their mothers
were born yard-like violets orsomething like that.
Right, and I've had women comeinto the store and literally
(17:32):
burst into tears when thisviolet hits them, it goes right
through them and it's like it'sjust the emotion just comes and
it's like, oh, my god, it's,it's so moving.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (17:44):
You know it's beautiful, it's absolutely
beautiful it is and it's thatmemory, like you say, it just
takes you back in an instant.
Really, it just you'reinstantly back there.
This is kind of a side note,but when we're talking about you
making sense for people, youjust made a scent with Pamela
(18:07):
Anderson.
I only know that because yousent me the photo and I was like
, oh boy, we have to talk aboutthis because that's so cool.
And if people know or don'tknow now that she lives on
Vancouver Island where hergrandparents lived, I believe
she's done a whole renovation oftheir property homes.
(18:29):
But do you want to talk aboutthat?
And I guess as a businessexperience, like how did that
come to be?
And then also, how was theexperience just creating that
scent with her?
Palma Cafolla (18:43):
Well, how it came to be was Pamela adores flowers
, she, like, loves flowers.
And I was at the store one dayand this beautiful woman came in
and lo and behold, it wasPamela Anderson and she just
(19:03):
said I'm in love with your storeand we just got chatting and
whatever, and she, you know,would get all her you, you know
her flowers for events anddifferent things like that.
And then we started to talkabout perfume and different
things like that.
And then, she has a show oncalled Pamela's Garden of Eden
(19:28):
and they asked would we be partof it?
So they filmed in the store, inthe perfumery, a couple of
episodes and then we actuallyset up a full flower store on
her property in Ladysmith forthe last show, or one of the
(19:49):
shows anyway, and like a full onflower store on her
grandmother's property.
It was beautiful and we hadgreat fun that day.
We made like flower crowns anddifferent things like that.
But how it got connected to thescent was she loves roses and
(20:13):
it's about getting the rightrose scent.
So it was well over a yearworking on backwards and
forwards and getting it right,but we can't say too much.
It hasn't been released here inCanada yet, and it's like we're
allowed little snippets butuntil it's released we can't say
(20:34):
too.
I don't think so.
I don't think we can say toomuch.
But yes, it was a beautifulrose scent, very garden like,
very real and just like her, youknow.
And the beauty about her is she.
The femininity that surroundsher is so beautiful.
(20:55):
She empowers you as a woman,you know, in this day and age
she's resilient.
She's gone through so much likeshe's been through the ringer.
Everything that could happen toyou, that you don't want to
happen to you, I feel likehappened to her and yeah, you
know it comes back better everytime and she's, she's just a
(21:20):
beautiful being, and so I wasvery honored to be able to sit
in, you know, in, you know, Isay stillness to try and read
what she was feeling, what sheneeded from the scent, what it
was.
So it was very good experienceto do that.
(21:43):
But things like that don'thaunt me because it's really not
about me.
I'm removed totally from theequation.
It's about not about me.
I'm removed totally from theequation.
It's about like it's naturedoes it all.
You know, I I'm just a tool,you know, I just move and see,
you know, and you know it waslike you, coming with your, your
(22:07):
mother's sense, you gave me thepicture I just have to take
from nature and see, you know,how we piece that picture
together.
You know it was the same forPamela, but she, yeah, it was a
lovely experience, very, verybeautiful to do.
But it was exciting because, youknow, I'm a city girl and I,
(22:30):
you know, I like a bit of hustle, I like the you girl and I, you
know, I like a bit of hustle, Ilike the, you know, and
Victoria is quite sedate, youknow, it's a very, you know,
laid back West Coast time, soit's kind of like.
You know I'm the first one upat the storekeeper ready.
Come on, where is it at?
It was actually.
It reminded me of Dublin again.
Like our store in Dublin, wehad, you know, a lot of people.
(22:56):
You know we did.
We had a lot of, I won't sayfamous people, but a lot of
celebrities when the store was.
We were surrounded by that andyou know you take it for granted
.
And then you've spent years andnothing like that.
And then this I'm like yes, Ifelt in Dublin again.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (23:14):
That's awesome, though, and I mean it's
a testament to you and what youdo, because, clearly, if she,
she's coming to your, your storeand repeatedly and working with
you, that's you, palma, like,that is, it's your essence and
it's your expertise, um, that'sdoing that.
So, so don't say you're justthe helper there.
(23:36):
Well, I mean it's you, and tome, I'll always have that spot
for you in my heart, because itwas such an amazing experience
and that's why I go to Victoriamy husband's from there.
I always try to stop in to seeyou, and you know if I need to
send flowers, I I always try tostop in to see you and you know
if I need to send flowers, I'malways coming to you.
Um, but you're, it's youressence, and I think really, um,
(24:01):
that's part of why you havebeen so successful and why your
business is really successful.
You're the secret or magicweapon.
I'll take the weapon, I don'tknow Ingredient.
Maybe you're the ingredient, Idon't know.
It's great, let's chat a littlebit, because really, you are
(24:29):
very special and talented inwhat you do.
So how did you go from?
Okay, I know because you tookyour training in France, right?
Okay, so you're in France, andobviously you live in Canada now
, so that's a big change.
But how did you go from beingokay, I'm going to make this
beautiful sense to actuallymaking it a business?
Palma Cafolla (24:51):
Well, that's the one thing that when I sit and
think about Zingaro really umbrings me to a really beautiful
place.
It brings me to a place of likein myself and, how you know,
(25:14):
blessed.
I am, because how I ended up inSaskatchewan, in Saskatoon, um
was, um, we had a crash inIreland and, uh, like we, you
know, our businesses wentthrough there.
So it kind of that's how Iended up in Canada and, believe
(25:38):
me, I never got the chance orthe reverence or the sacred
space to actually sit stillbecause I had I had my two boys,
I had my stepchildren, I hadall of these things going on in
my life and when I got toSaskatoon it actually was almost
(26:00):
like I was stripped ofeverything and I was raw and I
was in a country that you know,was an alien climate, that was
cold.
Yeah, I'd never seen anythinglike it for my life.
No, fair enough.
I know we would have spent oursummers in Italy and you know
(26:21):
Ireland.
So, like this minus 50, Ithought I was like Chris
Bonington, you know, I thought Iwas like every day walking to
the shops I was going to get amedal, you know, yeah, so I, it
gave me that space into theshops.
I was going to get a medal, youknow, so I, it gave me that
space.
What it did was it gave me, Ithink, eight years to actually
(26:43):
sit still and create.
And if I didn't, in Dublin orany other part of the world,
hustle as I told you, I like tohustle, right, it wouldn't
happen.
So I firmly believe I was whereI was meant to be.
I was given the grace, I wasgiven the sacred cause to
(27:03):
actually be still.
And the other thing was I wasgiven that, brother, because it
removed every essence from mybeing.
So it was almost like I had aclean palate, because I never,
you know, as a perfumer, in thewinter in Saskatoon there's no
(27:30):
smells, no, zero smells.
There's zero, right.
And I mean, you know, like afriend of mine, you know you say
, can you not smell this?
I smell nothing, because it waslike everything was removed.
So I used to sit in myperfumery in the depth of winter
(27:50):
and spend hours like I, two,three o'clock in the morning.
I would work and work and workand work, because it was like
all these scents were all new tome again, because they came
alive in the the kind of thebarrenness of Saskatoon in the
(28:10):
winter.
So I was given that gift fromthere being able to do that.
And you know, every time Ithink back, that was eight years
and they were a quick eightyears for me.
You know, it was like, and inthose eight years I think, there
was nine people who was createdand they're still there today.
(28:35):
So it was kind of scary for mewhen I did move here and
different things happened andchanges in my life, whatever.
I didn't know whether I wasgoing to be able to create a
percent again.
And since that I was able to.
There's been two new ones.
(28:56):
There's one being launched nextmonth, but there was one very
special one that, as I was herein Saskatoon, I was able to.
Yeah, as I was leavingSaskatoon, I was finishing it up
and I created a son, Christian,before I came here to Canada
(29:26):
myself and Christian went toParis and we spent some time
there just before I left,because I had to leave the boys
in Dublin for six months andcome here to set things up.
So that was very painful inlife to do that so hard.
So I took Christian with me toParis and we went to the Louvre,
(29:51):
all the beauty of Paris.
And this day we were due to goto Notre Dame and he didn't want
to go.
And I go look, I've done yourstuff.
You've got to fight, you'regoing.
So we went and the two of uswere like, oh my God, it was
(30:12):
just this magical experiencebetween a mother and a son.
It was a connection of arts.
It was the for me.
What I took out of it was thescent.
It was the cedar woods, the oldwax, the incense, the candles,
the books all of that magic.
Right, he took the gargoyles,the crypt, the this, and between
(30:36):
the two of us, we walked out ofthere hours and hours, this
magicalness, and then I leftCanada.
So we always had this Parisconnection between us and COVID
hit, and it was his 21stbirthday and he was stuck in
Dublin, but I had startedworking on this perfume for his
(31:00):
birthday in 2017 and I finishedit for his 21st birthday and I
was able to make it to him andit was called Basilica and it
was to make it to him and it wascalled Basilica and it was the
wording.
I don't have it here, but thewording of the title was the
most beautiful, I suppose, poemto my son and that.
(31:25):
But when you open the title,all it brings me back to is
Notre Dame.
Right, that moment, him, ourheart, you know, and that was
beautiful that's so special,because you'll always have that
you smell that and it takes youthere every time yeah, I love
(31:48):
that.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (31:49):
What can scent do for your confidence?
Because I feel like we'rehaving all of these memory
things.
But as business women andbusiness owners, I know for me,
when I put that scent on, I justfeel so good, but I can't be
the only one, so I feel likethere has to be yeah, so let's
talk about that.
Palma Cafolla (32:11):
Oh, my God.
You know what it's.
It sends me on like a trip.
It's like scent is like loveaffair with yourself again,
right, and unfortunately, if you, we've been taken down, we've
(32:32):
been taken down the path, we'vebeen taken by the hand and let
down the path of scent.
If you wear the scent, you'llget the guy, or you know your
power, your boss, lady, all ofthis crap, right, yeah, it's not
what scent is about.
Scent is so sexual, so sexual,so powerful for the person.
(32:57):
If they've got the right scenton, it elevates to the next
level.
But if you've got something onthat is not connected to you,
forget about it.
You might as well be wearing ashield.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (33:12):
Oh, sure, yeah, yeah, forget about it.
Palma Cafolla (33:13):
We might as well be wearing a shield.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
So if you get the scent, thatis right for you and you'll know
, because our senses are very,very powerful, they tell us.
You know, just close your eyesand breathe it in, and senses
will go.
That's the one.
But it's us that challenge itand before we know, we walk out
(33:33):
of the store with the wrongscent, right, yeah?
So what scent does for us,especially as women, is be naked
, put your scent up and thendress and then walk out and then
feel how you actually, becausewhat happens is that scent is
(33:54):
the next closest to your skin,it's now your signature, it's
your olfactory imprint, and whenyou've got an olfactory imprint
, it's also acts as comfort toyou.
It's like I don't know, everyof it says but if you're wearing
a scent that you're comfortablewith and familiar with in a
(34:16):
moment, okay, just do that.
Oh, it just regroups you.
Yeah, yeah, it does.
No.
And then when you start to havethat affair with scent again,
when you leave and I like to goout and leave, whatever, you
won't walk out the door withoutit yeah, well, I know for me the
, the scent that you made for me, that is my special scent.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (34:40):
I don't wear it every day.
I wear it on the days that areimportant or special or um a day
maybe where I'm not feeling sogreat and I need to have that
kind of percnea.
Honestly, I spray that scent on, I think of my mom and it's
like I'm in a whole differentworld.
Palma Cafolla (35:02):
Yeah.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (35:03):
It's just amazing and I think too when you
say you know you spray thescent on and then you get
dressed.
And I love what your grandmahad told you, where, when you
dress proper, you spray thescent on and then you get
dressed.
And I love what your grandmahad told you, where, when you
dress proper, you dress well andimagine that scent and that you
know outfit.
It doesn't have to be expensive, we know that, but just that
(35:25):
well-fitting suit, jacket orwhatever it is.
What an impact you can make onthe world.
Palma Cafolla (35:35):
Well, that's it.
You know it's like they're thefinishing touches of, you know,
being polished, and it'ssomething you're forgetting in
this life and world is that, youknow, those little efforts that
we, like I don't own, I wouldnot be seen out on the street
with leggings on.
I was drilled into me was thatyou go to the gym and you wear
(36:00):
that's why it's called gymclothing, and I just can't.
My sister is the same like wejust can't.
It's.
If I walked out like that, I'dbe like, oh my god, I feel wrong
.
And you know we're in a societynow where everything is, you
know, if you don't acceptsomething, you're wrong.
Well, I don't accept it, I'msorry.
(36:21):
You know, I am a woman and Ilike to dress like a woman and
that's how I feel, grounded andgood, you know.
And everyone makes their ownthing and whatever they do,
that's up to them.
For me, I have to be true tomyself, you know, and if I go
(36:42):
against, you know I go intostores sometimes and I have a
hard time shopping in Canada.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (36:50):
It's hard right, it's casual, right?
We're so much more casual herethan Europe, for sure, yeah.
Palma Cafolla (36:55):
And I'll go into a store and I'm like I can't do
it, I can't wear that, and youknow it's just, but that's just
me.
So between that and you've gotyour perfume and you've got all
those little elements, beforeyou know it, you've made a
(37:16):
ritual for yourself and youhaven't, you didn't even feel it
.
And it's about those littlerituals that keep us on track on
a daily basis, because they'rethe things that we grow on and
we make memories for people.
When I leave this world, I hopeI leave, you know I, you know I
, I only have boys.
So I, you know, I don't knowlike, my boys are very true to
(37:39):
me.
They'll be like ma'am, we knowyou're like.
You know the way you are, youknow, but like my nieces and
that you know, and my sisterswould be the same, like you know
.
Well, that's the right way toexpress it.
It's I'm old, I like tradition,you know, I like things to be
kept that way and it makes mehappy.
(38:01):
And you know, in a world wherethings are just, you know
they're, they're disposable, youknow those things that have
been instilled in us are thethings that really, you know
hold.
And then you've got your, yourstaples, your, your perfume,
your good jacket.
You're good to go.
(38:22):
You might not have any money inyour pocket, but nobody knows
that.
That's right, that's right.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (38:28):
You, you are such an inspiration to me.
You, you are so resilient.
I feel like you've lived manylives in this one life.
Your store in Victoria isabsolutely beautiful.
I tell everyone to go therewhen they go to Victoria and go
say hi for me, for you, andyou're so resilient.
(38:50):
You've gone through so manylife changes and where you've
lived and I mean from Ireland toFrance or to London, to
Saskatoon.
Now, Victoria, you are just areal inspiration to me, and I
know you are to a lot of otherpeople too.
Um, so I'm do you havesomething or a most important
(39:16):
lesson you've learned along theway, or something that you think
, for a woman in business,that's something they should
know?
Palma Cafolla (39:30):
Yes, yes, hold.
I spent many, many yearsholding on to things with
clenched fists, right, and whatI've learned is it's okay to let
things flutter.
And a very wise lady said to meyou know, if you hold a bird in
(39:56):
your hand a little bird youhold him so tight he'll never be
able to fly.
But if you hold your hand outlike that, chances are he'll
stay in your hand but he mightalso fly.
But whatever happens, it's okay.
You know, and for me, I havelearned that it's whatever comes
(40:21):
is here for a reason and it's alesson, and some of the lessons
are very, very painful, but itmeans there's growth.
Through pain there's alwaysgrowth, and I've only seen this
because I've seen pain and thenI've seen what happens after.
(40:45):
Oh, look at that, there'sactually something amazing
that's come out after that.
So it's you know, whenever I'min pain now, what I say to
myself is it's okay, you're justgrown, it's all right it's true
, right, growing pains,literally, as children, you're
(41:05):
growing pains to grow.
Yeah, yeah I love that, so it's.
You know I hated standing stillfor many, many years.
You know I always had to run,and it's funny because you know
what the word Zingaro means?
I do not, but you better tellus.
It's Italian for gypsy.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (41:25):
Okay.
Palma Cafolla (41:26):
And what that was .
When I was younger, I was knownas the runner, and not
physically as the runner, butphysically as the exeter,
because my mother and fathercould never find me.
I was always gone, Like therewas always something better
going on down the road or overthere or whatever.
So I was always like the gypsy.
(41:48):
She's like a gypsy, but she'sgone again.
She's gone again, yeah, sothat's why the store is called
Zingaro.
Right, and for me it could be.
You know, I don't know, am Igoing to end up in Victoria?
Who knows?
You know?
But that's the beauty of thislife, you know?
Yeah, it's the beauty of thislife, because there's so many
(42:08):
things to see and do and I'mtied to nothing.
Because when you tie yourselfto something, then you're you're
squashing the beauty out of it,whereas if you keep your hands
and your palms open, the beautyis allowed to grow also and
before you know it, you're grown, you're evolving with that
(42:30):
beauty and you never know whereyou're going to be like.
I blow my kids' minds as well,but when she's at it again, I'm
going.
It's okay, you know, I lovefreedom.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (42:42):
Well, and that's a part of you, and I know
that, and I love how you're thelittle gypsy that we love.
Okay, so how about if you hadto tell your 17-year-old self
when you landed off that ship inLondon, or maybe something you
wish you had known?
(43:02):
Is there something you wouldsay?
Palma Cafolla (43:11):
I don't think I'd change a thing.
I don't think I'd change athing because you know what
everything that happened hasbeen the making of me and the
beautiful people around me.
And, honestly, there's certainparts of life that I'm like, oh,
I wish that happened, but youknow what part of it?
(43:34):
Yeah, yeah.
So honestly, I don't think I'ddo anything.
I love that.
And I tell my 17-year-olds I'llkeep going, keep going.
You've got this.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (43:45):
Honestly, it's true you do have this for
sure.
Where can people find you?
I know you've got a greatInstagram, but where's the best
place?
I know people are going to wantto know more and check you out,
so where should they go?
Palma Cafolla (43:59):
Well, we've got good news we're opening a second
store in Victoria now as well.
That is awesome.
There's going to be twolocations.
Oh, that's awesome, yeah.
So one is on Government, whichis just right by the Empress so
the beautiful Empress Hotel andthe other one is on Johnson
Street.
So myself and my husband arebusy getting these going and
(44:23):
yeah, well, congratulations,find us either there.
Mackenzie Kilsh (44:27):
Congratulations , I will be sure to stop in when
I'm in Victoria next so that Ican see you and see the new
space.
Thank you so much for being on.
I'm going to go put some of myperfume on so that I can feel
closer to you right now.
To everybody listening.
Thank you so much.
We'll see you on the nextepisode.
Thanks for listening to Winning.
(44:48):
Be sure to subscribe to get allof our new episodes.
If you enjoyed this episode andyou'd like to help support the
podcast, please share it withothers, post about it on social
media and leave a rating andreview wherever you listen to
Winning.
To catch all of the latest fromus, you can follow Winning
Podcast on Instagram @ winning_podcast, Facebook @Winning
(45:12):
Podcast, and on Twitter @winning pod.
Winning was created and isproduced by me, Mackenzie
Kilshaw music, created by SummerFirby, editing by Seth
Armstrong.
Special thanks to Shauna Fosterfor voicing our opening and, of
course, a huge thank you tothis episode's guest.
Thanks again for listening andI'll see you on the next episode
(45:34):
.
Winning will help you learn the hard lessons the
easy way, with guidance fromcelebrated entrepreneurs and
business leaders.
It's fun, it's informative,it's winning Hello welcome to
Winning.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (00:32):
I'm your host , Mackenzie Kilshaw, and today's
guest is Palma Cafolla.
Palma, how are you?
Palma Cafolla (00:37):
I'm great Mackenzie.
How are you doing?
Mackenzie Kilshaw (00:40):
I'm so good and I'm so happy that you're
here.
Palma is a friend of mine.
She, I think, has the coolestcareer that I've ever heard of.
I didn't even know it wassomething you can do, a career,
career of, and she makesperfumes and the most beautiful
scents and we're going to talk alot about that today.
But she was born and raised inIreland and she spent years
(01:06):
wandering in her mother's andher grandmother's gardens.
Um which was just 17, she wentto Europe exploring the streets.
She happened on the floristshop and she became a floral
designer and you actually evenmade arrangements for the Royal
Family, which I think we'lltouch on because that's super
cool.
Palma does love arrangingflowers, but really it was the
(01:30):
scent of the flowers that reallyshe was, I think, passionate
about is a good word.
And she is the owner of ZingaroFloral Perfumery in Victoria BC
, which is a really cool shop.
If you're in Victoria you haveto stop in.
But, Palma, I'm so happy you'rehere.
Palma Cafolla (01:52):
Okay, well, you kind of had it all there in a
nutshell, Mackenzie, I guess mylove affair started from a
really, really young age.
My mother was very passionateabout her garden and flowers and
it was like something from likethe garden.
It was beautiful.
She threw her life's work intoher garden and then, on the
(02:15):
other hand, my Italiangrandmother had a culinary
garden garden.
So I was surrounded by two verypowerful, protective women as a
young girl and an Italianfamily and an Irish family, and
myself and my sister, two younggirls.
It was like the Gestapo on topof us.
(02:38):
It was like we weren't allowedto move.
If one mother wasn't watchful,the grandmother was watchful.
So I spent my days in the garden.
My mother was very strict in asense, where, you know, we
wouldn't be let go out afterschool like we'd, you know, get
home, and she used to always sayto myself and my sister you
(02:59):
know, you don't need anyone,you've got your sister.
And that was the mentalitygoing up for the two of us.
You know, to this day, mysister and I still say that to
each other you don't need anyone, you've got me.
So that's how it was.
So I would just wander thegarden and I had a very wondrous
(03:20):
, mystical mind that used to gooff with the fairies and I
always got into trouble for it.
But I would like take mymother's roses and, you know,
mash the petals off and addwater and powder, and I'd make
all these different precautionsand put a few little pieces in
(03:41):
as well, just to see if they doanything with it.
That's how it started and mygrandmother had, like the real
strong herbs you know forItalian cooking.
I'd be doing stuff there.
So my senses were infused froma very young age and they were
very alert and you know that wasreally it until I hit 17.
(04:10):
I was, you know, very restless.
I never liked school.
I wasn't academic in any way.
You know, if there was a windowI would open the window.
If you know, somewhere I was,you know, awake.
I always went off intodifferent worlds and they were
all magical worlds and I'd getlost in them.
(04:33):
And the minute I was 17, Ihopped on a boat for the plane
fare and I had, I think,something like 90 pounds and,
much to my mother's dismay, Ileft and I went to London and I
walked down this little alley inone of those beautiful back
(04:55):
streets in London that's whereall you know around the big fair
and that and I walked into thislike amazing flower store,
that's what it was, and yeah,they had a sign on the window,
apprentice, and I went in and Ibasically just you know, I told
(05:16):
them that I knew nothing but Iwas passionate and I would do
anything.
And myself and a New Zealandgirl both were taken on at the
same time and I have to say itwas probably the best experience
of my life because myself and aNew Zealand girl we're still
friends to this day.
We were both she was, I think,18, I was 17 and we actually got
(05:40):
a place to live together andstarted our floral design career
there, and we would.
They were very high end floraldesigners, like he was a Dutch
master and we were sent from allthe.
(06:01):
They were appointed to anembassy with between.
So either in London you couldsee that quite a bit if a
majesty got food projects fromyour store or whatever, you
would get this to say you wereappointed, so it means that's
(06:21):
who she went to to get the food.
You were appointed as theflorist, so that's kind of how
it.
To get her food.
We were appointed as theflorists, so that's kind of how
it goes.
And you'll see beautiful placesaround London that would have
this appointment to the queen atthe time.
Obviously the king now right,yeah, so we would go around
after the master florists aroundall central London hotels and
(06:45):
literally go after them.
That's what we did, we, andevery day go around all central
London and fix and order thearrangements.
You know these were arrangementswhich were like three times my
size, you know, on like 10-footladders, designing and doing
whatever right, and that's kindof where my training started.
(07:10):
We had her name was, and sheshe was like the color of the
dragon and she would literallynot let us use any mechanical,
sorry name.
They've been given a name.
Literally not let us use anymechanical, sorry common name
for flowers which used to say tous they've been given a common
name and made sure you use it,and we wouldn't be allowed to.
(07:33):
You know, say, baby's breath,right, you don't have to use
Cecilia.
Or you know, Birds of Paradise,Strelitzia.
So it was all very tough but Ihave to say I was trained so
rigorously in this business thatI was taken up with it.
(07:54):
It just took over my life.
And then the scent came backagain Because, as I was working,
all these botanicals, all theseinfusions were coming at me
like why doesn't anything smelllike this?
And I'd spend my days, you know, my day off I'd have very
little tea and I'd be in alittle bed, sit in London.
(08:15):
I'd go around beautiful stores,you know, like Liberty, Harrods
, all the designer stores inLondon.
And you know, dream, get lost inmy new world.
Now that I get lost, I'd be inDior, dreaming that I could rest
in Dior one day.
I'd be in Chanel.
I'd be dreaming, you know, andI'm always a way of, you know,
(08:38):
pulling it off, because myItalian grandma was very she
would be very about how youbought your clothes.
You know she said it doesn'tmatter how much money you've got
, but you have to dress well,you know, and you make sure it
has to be.
You know, if you buy a jacketit has to be of couture, you
know, so that it will last you.
(08:59):
And you know different thingslike that.
She trained us really, reallywell and I would go and dream in
all these doors and the senseand the magic.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (09:13):
You are a dreamer.
You still are, I think.
As far as I know, you still area dreamer and that's a great
thing because of what you do, Ithink it really lends itself
well, and that's, I think, partof like I always say what you do
is magic, and I think that'swhy right yeah, well, you know,
it's about getting lost in itand scent takes you to places,
(09:35):
right?
Palma Cafolla (09:35):
Yes, and that's what it did.
So then I started my journey,as I was floral designer.
Then I started my journey,training as a perfumer.
I just fell into it.
I'm like I want to make the wayperfume was originally made,
you know, not synthetic, notchemical, real the dirt, the
(09:57):
soil, flower, with everycomposition that went with it.
Right, and that's what took meto to grass and fence so and so
you started really hands-on.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (10:10):
You just jumped into hands-on training.
Like you said, they were veryum proper on the proper names of
flowers and whatnot, and I'msure even I know years ago I
didn't realize that, like Birdsof Paradise wasn't Birds of
Paradise, it actually had a nameand that we just that's like
the common name.
Right, yeah, so you do that.
(10:32):
Then how do you become aperfumer?
Like what are?
How do you go from floral toactually becoming a real
perfumer?
Palma Cafolla (10:44):
Well, in all honesty, Mackenzie, they go hand
in hand because they're just adifferent element of the same
thing.
Right, the flowers have so manydifferent layers.
So one layer the design andbeauty, the visual and then the
(11:08):
other layer is close your eyes,it's essential, right, and
that's so.
To me, it was like nature.
I was just opening up Pandora'sbox a little bit more and
jumping right in, you know.
So it went from.
You know learning the chemicalbasis of it, like the.
(11:30):
You know the reactions, thedo's, the don'ts, the.
You know the base notes, theheart notes, the top notes,
different things like that.
There's a lot of challenges fora botanical, like a natural
consumer, and what that is is.
It's a very murky world, in asense, where synthetic is very
(11:57):
linear.
If it wants to take you to rose, it'll take you straight to
rose, whereas botanical, it'lltake you to the rose.
It'll also take you to the soil, the leaf, the composing of the
flower, it brings you to everylevel of that.
So, as a know, I'm a know.
(12:21):
But as say someone likeyourself who has a passion for
perfume, you've got to askyourself what moves you?
You know what, what?
Mackenzie Kilshaw (12:32):
Where do you fit in with your senses and you
know we're still in a worldwhere 70% are still caught on
synthetic because we don't knowwhat it actually even smells
like yeah, it's crazy to me toowhen I remember when I went to
Paris um years years ago, um,and smelt real, because really,
(12:56):
living I grew up in Saskatchewannot to say there wasn't real
here, but a lot of it smells itjust smells synthetic, it
doesn't smell real.
Um, you know, you go to ShoppersDrug Mart or The Bay that's
really going to get your your umscent and smelling real perfume
.
And then I do want to just kindof tell the audience about how
(13:16):
you and I got to know each other, because you actually um made
for me but it was, I guess, acollaborative effort.
But I went to Palma's home andI learned so much about creating
a scent and she actuallycreated a scent for me, um, and
(13:37):
it was in kind of memory orhonor of my mom, um, but the
experience was so amazingbecause, as you had said, it's
about how it makes you feel andI remember you giving me
swatches and me smelling thingsand saying, oh my gosh, this
reminds me of when I was alittle girl and I was with my
(13:58):
grandma and my mom and itliterally took me to that time
and then I knew I want to usethis geranium.
I remember it was one of thewas one of the scents, but I
want to use this in my scentbecause it was my.
You know it evoked that emotionfrom me.
Palma Cafolla (14:17):
Yeah.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (14:18):
And that was such a great experience and what
I had my clothing store TwoFifty Two Boutique and we sold
the perfume there and honestly,yeah, people would smell that
and say I've never smelledanything like this.
And it's because you're right,it was, it's real, it's not
synthetic and it it's such adifferent experience.
(14:39):
And even now, if I have a fewfriends that still wear the
scent I still wear the scent, ofcourse, but I'll smell them and
I'm like I know what you'rewearing right, because it just
has that.
I know what you're wearingright because it just has that.
I know what it is and it wassuch a great experience for me
and it really did.
You know, every time I smellthat, I think of my mom and that
(15:01):
was the purpose of it and ithappened.
So I want to thank you for that.
But that's your expertise,right.
That just shows that you're sogood at what you do expertise,
right.
Palma Cafolla (15:16):
That just shows that you're so good at what you
do well.
It just I have to say that wasa beautiful experience for me as
well, because I felt I was ableto bring me to that one
connection through scent, right.
Yeah, and it was a verymeaningful experience because,
if I remember right, your, yourcousin, the uh was it, your
cousin was with you as well, myniece, your niece, yes, and it
(15:36):
was just beautiful because youknow she was in the same
predicament.
It was like a connection thatgot people together through
scent, and scent does that.
You know it brings us to goodand bad memories.
You know, um, like it's amazing, the, my very first perfume.
(16:03):
So it was very and um, it waswas originally called The Earth
Of My Soul and it literally wasthe earth of my soul at that
time and every ingredient evokedsomething.
And you know, when the wholecomposition was put together and
the formula was done, it waslike, oh my god, and for years
(16:27):
couldn't revisit that perfumebecause it actually moved me too
much, too much, yeah, and onlyin the last, I would say, year,
two years, I've started wearingit again.
It got renamed when we wentcommercial and that and things
like that.
But definitely, you know, itbrings us to places, it moves us
(16:50):
.
You know, I did have some, didhave some people in the store
like this one perfume inparticular and I think it's
haunting.
It's called Violetta and it'sbased, it's a bouger means it's
a green floral and it's justlike a symphony of violets when
it bursts open.
(17:11):
But years ago violet perfumewas extremely popular in the 20s
, 30s.
You know a lot of women intheir 60s, 70s, their mothers
were born yard-like violets orsomething like that.
Right, and I've had women comeinto the store and literally
(17:32):
burst into tears when thisviolet hits them, it goes right
through them and it's like it'sjust the emotion just comes and
it's like, oh, my god, it's,it's so moving.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (17:44):
You know it's beautiful, it's absolutely
beautiful it is and it's thatmemory, like you say, it just
takes you back in an instant.
Really, it just you'reinstantly back there.
This is kind of a side note,but when we're talking about you
making sense for people, youjust made a scent with Pamela
(18:07):
Anderson.
I only know that because yousent me the photo and I was like
, oh boy, we have to talk aboutthis because that's so cool.
And if people know or don'tknow now that she lives on
Vancouver Island where hergrandparents lived, I believe
she's done a whole renovation oftheir property homes.
(18:29):
But do you want to talk aboutthat?
And I guess as a businessexperience, like how did that
come to be?
And then also, how was theexperience just creating that
scent with her?
Palma Cafolla (18:43):
Well, how it came to be was Pamela adores flowers
, she, like, loves flowers.
And I was at the store one dayand this beautiful woman came in
and lo and behold, it wasPamela Anderson and she just
(19:03):
said I'm in love with your storeand we just got chatting and
whatever, and she, you know,would get all her you, you know
her flowers for events anddifferent things like that.
And then we started to talkabout perfume and different
things like that.
And then, she has a show oncalled Pamela's Garden of Eden
(19:28):
and they asked would we be partof it?
So they filmed in the store, inthe perfumery, a couple of
episodes and then we actuallyset up a full flower store on
her property in Ladysmith forthe last show, or one of the
(19:49):
shows anyway, and like a full onflower store on her
grandmother's property.
It was beautiful and we hadgreat fun that day.
We made like flower crowns anddifferent things like that.
But how it got connected to thescent was she loves roses and
(20:13):
it's about getting the rightrose scent.
So it was well over a yearworking on backwards and
forwards and getting it right,but we can't say too much.
It hasn't been released here inCanada yet, and it's like we're
allowed little snippets butuntil it's released we can't say
(20:34):
too.
I don't think so.
I don't think we can say toomuch.
But yes, it was a beautifulrose scent, very garden like,
very real and just like her, youknow.
And the beauty about her is she.
The femininity that surroundsher is so beautiful.
(20:55):
She empowers you as a woman,you know, in this day and age
she's resilient.
She's gone through so much likeshe's been through the ringer.
Everything that could happen toyou, that you don't want to
happen to you, I feel likehappened to her and yeah, you
know it comes back better everytime and she's, she's just a
(21:20):
beautiful being, and so I wasvery honored to be able to sit
in, you know, in, you know, Isay stillness to try and read
what she was feeling, what sheneeded from the scent, what it
was.
So it was very good experienceto do that.
(21:43):
But things like that don'thaunt me because it's really not
about me.
I'm removed totally from theequation.
It's about not about me.
I'm removed totally from theequation.
It's about like it's naturedoes it all.
You know, I I'm just a tool,you know, I just move and see,
you know, and you know it waslike you, coming with your, your
(22:07):
mother's sense, you gave me thepicture I just have to take
from nature and see, you know,how we piece that picture
together.
You know it was the same forPamela, but she, yeah, it was a
lovely experience, very, verybeautiful to do.
But it was exciting because, youknow, I'm a city girl and I,
(22:30):
you know, I like a bit of hustle, I like the you girl and I, you
know, I like a bit of hustle, Ilike the, you know, and
Victoria is quite sedate, youknow, it's a very, you know,
laid back West Coast time, soit's kind of like.
You know I'm the first one upat the storekeeper ready.
Come on, where is it at?
It was actually.
It reminded me of Dublin again.
Like our store in Dublin, wehad, you know, a lot of people.
(22:56):
You know we did.
We had a lot of, I won't sayfamous people, but a lot of
celebrities when the store was.
We were surrounded by that andyou know you take it for granted
.
And then you've spent years andnothing like that.
And then this I'm like yes, Ifelt in Dublin again.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (23:14):
That's awesome, though, and I mean it's
a testament to you and what youdo, because, clearly, if she,
she's coming to your, your storeand repeatedly and working with
you, that's you, palma, like,that is, it's your essence and
it's your expertise, um, that'sdoing that.
So, so don't say you're justthe helper there.
(23:36):
Well, I mean it's you, and tome, I'll always have that spot
for you in my heart, because itwas such an amazing experience
and that's why I go to Victoriamy husband's from there.
I always try to stop in to seeyou, and you know if I need to
send flowers, I I always try tostop in to see you and you know
if I need to send flowers, I'malways coming to you.
Um, but you're, it's youressence, and I think really, um,
(24:01):
that's part of why you havebeen so successful and why your
business is really successful.
You're the secret or magicweapon.
I'll take the weapon, I don'tknow Ingredient.
Maybe you're the ingredient, Idon't know.
It's great, let's chat a littlebit, because really, you are
(24:29):
very special and talented inwhat you do.
So how did you go from?
Okay, I know because you tookyour training in France, right?
Okay, so you're in France, andobviously you live in Canada now
, so that's a big change.
But how did you go from beingokay, I'm going to make this
beautiful sense to actuallymaking it a business?
Palma Cafolla (24:51):
Well, that's the one thing that when I sit and
think about Zingaro really umbrings me to a really beautiful
place.
It brings me to a place of likein myself and, how you know,
(25:14):
blessed.
I am, because how I ended up inSaskatchewan, in Saskatoon, um
was, um, we had a crash inIreland and, uh, like we, you
know, our businesses wentthrough there.
So it kind of that's how Iended up in Canada and, believe
(25:38):
me, I never got the chance orthe reverence or the sacred
space to actually sit stillbecause I had I had my two boys,
I had my stepchildren, I hadall of these things going on in
my life and when I got toSaskatoon it actually was almost
(26:00):
like I was stripped ofeverything and I was raw and I
was in a country that you know,was an alien climate, that was
cold.
Yeah, I'd never seen anythinglike it for my life.
No, fair enough.
I know we would have spent oursummers in Italy and you know
(26:21):
Ireland.
So, like this minus 50, Ithought I was like Chris
Bonington, you know, I thought Iwas like every day walking to
the shops I was going to get amedal, you know, yeah, so I, it
gave me that space into theshops.
I was going to get a medal, youknow, so I, it gave me that
space.
What it did was it gave me, Ithink, eight years to actually
(26:43):
sit still and create.
And if I didn't, in Dublin orany other part of the world,
hustle as I told you, I like tohustle, right, it wouldn't
happen.
So I firmly believe I was whereI was meant to be.
I was given the grace, I wasgiven the sacred cause to
(27:03):
actually be still.
And the other thing was I wasgiven that, brother, because it
removed every essence from mybeing.
So it was almost like I had aclean palate, because I never,
you know, as a perfumer, in thewinter in Saskatoon there's no
(27:30):
smells, no, zero smells.
There's zero, right.
And I mean, you know, like afriend of mine, you know you say
, can you not smell this?
I smell nothing, because it waslike everything was removed.
So I used to sit in myperfumery in the depth of winter
(27:50):
and spend hours like I, two,three o'clock in the morning.
I would work and work and workand work, because it was like
all these scents were all new tome again, because they came
alive in the the kind of thebarrenness of Saskatoon in the
(28:10):
winter.
So I was given that gift fromthere being able to do that.
And you know, every time Ithink back, that was eight years
and they were a quick eightyears for me.
You know, it was like, and inthose eight years I think, there
was nine people who was createdand they're still there today.
(28:35):
So it was kind of scary for mewhen I did move here and
different things happened andchanges in my life, whatever.
I didn't know whether I wasgoing to be able to create a
percent again.
And since that I was able to.
There's been two new ones.
(28:56):
There's one being launched nextmonth, but there was one very
special one that, as I was herein Saskatoon, I was able to.
Yeah, as I was leavingSaskatoon, I was finishing it up
and I created a son, Christian,before I came here to Canada
(29:26):
myself and Christian went toParis and we spent some time
there just before I left,because I had to leave the boys
in Dublin for six months andcome here to set things up.
So that was very painful inlife to do that so hard.
So I took Christian with me toParis and we went to the Louvre,
(29:51):
all the beauty of Paris.
And this day we were due to goto Notre Dame and he didn't want
to go.
And I go look, I've done yourstuff.
You've got to fight, you'regoing.
So we went and the two of uswere like, oh my God, it was
(30:12):
just this magical experiencebetween a mother and a son.
It was a connection of arts.
It was the for me.
What I took out of it was thescent.
It was the cedar woods, the oldwax, the incense, the candles,
the books all of that magic.
Right, he took the gargoyles,the crypt, the this, and between
(30:36):
the two of us, we walked out ofthere hours and hours, this
magicalness, and then I leftCanada.
So we always had this Parisconnection between us and COVID
hit, and it was his 21stbirthday and he was stuck in
Dublin, but I had startedworking on this perfume for his
(31:00):
birthday in 2017 and I finishedit for his 21st birthday and I
was able to make it to him andit was called Basilica and it
was to make it to him and it wascalled Basilica and it was the
wording.
I don't have it here, but thewording of the title was the
most beautiful, I suppose, poemto my son and that.
(31:25):
But when you open the title,all it brings me back to is
Notre Dame.
Right, that moment, him, ourheart, you know, and that was
beautiful that's so special,because you'll always have that
you smell that and it takes youthere every time yeah, I love
(31:48):
that.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (31:49):
What can scent do for your confidence?
Because I feel like we'rehaving all of these memory
things.
But as business women andbusiness owners, I know for me,
when I put that scent on, I justfeel so good, but I can't be
the only one, so I feel likethere has to be yeah, so let's
talk about that.
Palma Cafolla (32:11):
Oh, my God.
You know what it's.
It sends me on like a trip.
It's like scent is like loveaffair with yourself again,
right, and unfortunately, if you, we've been taken down, we've
(32:32):
been taken down the path, we'vebeen taken by the hand and let
down the path of scent.
If you wear the scent, you'llget the guy, or you know your
power, your boss, lady, all ofthis crap, right, yeah, it's not
what scent is about.
Scent is so sexual, so sexual,so powerful for the person.
(32:57):
If they've got the right scenton, it elevates to the next
level.
But if you've got something onthat is not connected to you,
forget about it.
You might as well be wearing ashield.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (33:12):
Oh, sure, yeah, yeah, forget about it.
Palma Cafolla (33:13):
We might as well be wearing a shield.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
So if you get the scent, thatis right for you and you'll know
, because our senses are very,very powerful, they tell us.
You know, just close your eyesand breathe it in, and senses
will go.
That's the one.
But it's us that challenge itand before we know, we walk out
(33:33):
of the store with the wrongscent, right, yeah?
So what scent does for us,especially as women, is be naked
, put your scent up and thendress and then walk out and then
feel how you actually, becausewhat happens is that scent is
(33:54):
the next closest to your skin,it's now your signature, it's
your olfactory imprint, and whenyou've got an olfactory imprint
, it's also acts as comfort toyou.
It's like I don't know, everyof it says but if you're wearing
a scent that you're comfortablewith and familiar with in a
(34:16):
moment, okay, just do that.
Oh, it just regroups you.
Yeah, yeah, it does.
No.
And then when you start to havethat affair with scent again,
when you leave and I like to goout and leave, whatever, you
won't walk out the door withoutit yeah, well, I know for me the
, the scent that you made for me, that is my special scent.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (34:40):
I don't wear it every day.
I wear it on the days that areimportant or special or um a day
maybe where I'm not feeling sogreat and I need to have that
kind of percnea.
Honestly, I spray that scent on, I think of my mom and it's
like I'm in a whole differentworld.
Palma Cafolla (35:02):
Yeah.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (35:03):
It's just amazing and I think too when you
say you know you spray thescent on and then you get
dressed.
And I love what your grandmahad told you, where, when you
dress proper, you spray thescent on and then you get
dressed.
And I love what your grandmahad told you, where, when you
dress proper, you dress well andimagine that scent and that you
know outfit.
It doesn't have to be expensive, we know that, but just that
(35:25):
well-fitting suit, jacket orwhatever it is.
What an impact you can make onthe world.
Palma Cafolla (35:35):
Well, that's it.
You know it's like they're thefinishing touches of, you know,
being polished, and it'ssomething you're forgetting in
this life and world is that, youknow, those little efforts that
we, like I don't own, I wouldnot be seen out on the street
with leggings on.
I was drilled into me was thatyou go to the gym and you wear
(36:00):
that's why it's called gymclothing, and I just can't.
My sister is the same like wejust can't.
It's.
If I walked out like that, I'dbe like, oh my god, I feel wrong
.
And you know we're in a societynow where everything is, you
know, if you don't acceptsomething, you're wrong.
Well, I don't accept it, I'msorry.
(36:21):
You know, I am a woman and Ilike to dress like a woman and
that's how I feel, grounded andgood, you know.
And everyone makes their ownthing and whatever they do,
that's up to them.
For me, I have to be true tomyself, you know, and if I go
(36:42):
against, you know I go intostores sometimes and I have a
hard time shopping in Canada.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (36:50):
It's hard right, it's casual, right?
We're so much more casual herethan Europe, for sure, yeah.
Palma Cafolla (36:55):
And I'll go into a store and I'm like I can't do
it, I can't wear that, and youknow it's just, but that's just
me.
So between that and you've gotyour perfume and you've got all
those little elements, beforeyou know it, you've made a
(37:16):
ritual for yourself and youhaven't, you didn't even feel it
.
And it's about those littlerituals that keep us on track on
a daily basis, because they'rethe things that we grow on and
we make memories for people.
When I leave this world, I hopeI leave, you know I, you know I
, I only have boys.
So I, you know, I don't knowlike, my boys are very true to
(37:39):
me.
They'll be like ma'am, we knowyou're like.
You know the way you are, youknow, but like my nieces and
that you know, and my sisterswould be the same, like you know
.
Well, that's the right way toexpress it.
It's I'm old, I like tradition,you know, I like things to be
kept that way and it makes mehappy.
(38:01):
And you know, in a world wherethings are just, you know
they're, they're disposable, youknow those things that have
been instilled in us are thethings that really, you know
hold.
And then you've got your, yourstaples, your, your perfume,
your good jacket.
You're good to go.
(38:22):
You might not have any money inyour pocket, but nobody knows
that.
That's right, that's right.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (38:28):
You, you are such an inspiration to me.
You, you are so resilient.
I feel like you've lived manylives in this one life.
Your store in Victoria isabsolutely beautiful.
I tell everyone to go therewhen they go to Victoria and go
say hi for me, for you, andyou're so resilient.
(38:50):
You've gone through so manylife changes and where you've
lived and I mean from Ireland toFrance or to London, to
Saskatoon.
Now, Victoria, you are just areal inspiration to me, and I
know you are to a lot of otherpeople too.
Um, so I'm do you havesomething or a most important
(39:16):
lesson you've learned along theway, or something that you think
, for a woman in business,that's something they should
know?
Palma Cafolla (39:30):
Yes, yes, hold.
I spent many, many yearsholding on to things with
clenched fists, right, and whatI've learned is it's okay to let
things flutter.
And a very wise lady said to meyou know, if you hold a bird in
(39:56):
your hand a little bird youhold him so tight he'll never be
able to fly.
But if you hold your hand outlike that, chances are he'll
stay in your hand but he mightalso fly.
But whatever happens, it's okay.
You know, and for me, I havelearned that it's whatever comes
(40:21):
is here for a reason and it's alesson, and some of the lessons
are very, very painful, but itmeans there's growth.
Through pain there's alwaysgrowth, and I've only seen this
because I've seen pain and thenI've seen what happens after.
(40:45):
Oh, look at that, there'sactually something amazing
that's come out after that.
So it's you know, whenever I'min pain now, what I say to
myself is it's okay, you're justgrown, it's all right it's true
, right, growing pains,literally, as children, you're
(41:05):
growing pains to grow.
Yeah, yeah I love that, so it's.
You know I hated standing stillfor many, many years.
You know I always had to run,and it's funny because you know
what the word Zingaro means?
I do not, but you better tellus.
It's Italian for gypsy.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (41:25):
Okay.
Palma Cafolla (41:26):
And what that was .
When I was younger, I was knownas the runner, and not
physically as the runner, butphysically as the exeter,
because my mother and fathercould never find me.
I was always gone, Like therewas always something better
going on down the road or overthere or whatever.
So I was always like the gypsy.
(41:48):
She's like a gypsy, but she'sgone again.
She's gone again, yeah, sothat's why the store is called
Zingaro.
Right, and for me it could be.
You know, I don't know, am Igoing to end up in Victoria?
Who knows?
You know?
But that's the beauty of thislife, you know?
Yeah, it's the beauty of thislife, because there's so many
(42:08):
things to see and do and I'mtied to nothing.
Because when you tie yourselfto something, then you're you're
squashing the beauty out of it,whereas if you keep your hands
and your palms open, the beautyis allowed to grow also and
before you know it, you're grown, you're evolving with that
(42:30):
beauty and you never know whereyou're going to be like.
I blow my kids' minds as well,but when she's at it again, I'm
going.
It's okay, you know, I lovefreedom.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (42:42):
Well, and that's a part of you, and I know
that, and I love how you're thelittle gypsy that we love.
Okay, so how about if you hadto tell your 17-year-old self
when you landed off that ship inLondon, or maybe something you
wish you had known?
(43:02):
Is there something you wouldsay?
Palma Cafolla (43:11):
I don't think I'd change a thing.
I don't think I'd change athing because you know what
everything that happened hasbeen the making of me and the
beautiful people around me.
And, honestly, there's certainparts of life that I'm like, oh,
I wish that happened, but youknow what part of it?
(43:34):
Yeah, yeah.
So honestly, I don't think I'ddo anything.
I love that.
And I tell my 17-year-olds I'llkeep going, keep going.
You've got this.
Mackenzie Kilshaw (43:45):
Honestly, it's true you do have this for
sure.
Where can people find you?
I know you've got a greatInstagram, but where's the best
place?
I know people are going to wantto know more and check you out,
so where should they go?
Palma Cafolla (43:59):
Well, we've got good news we're opening a second
store in Victoria now as well.
That is awesome.
There's going to be twolocations.
Oh, that's awesome, yeah.
So one is on Government, whichis just right by the Empress so
the beautiful Empress Hotel andthe other one is on Johnson
Street.
So myself and my husband arebusy getting these going and
(44:23):
yeah, well, congratulations,find us either there.
Mackenzie Kilsh (44:27):
Congratulations , I will be sure to stop in when
I'm in Victoria next so that Ican see you and see the new
space.
Thank you so much for being on.
I'm going to go put some of myperfume on so that I can feel
closer to you right now.
To everybody listening.
Thank you so much.
We'll see you on the nextepisode.
Thanks for listening to Winning.
(44:48):
Be sure to subscribe to get allof our new episodes.
If you enjoyed this episode andyou'd like to help support the
podcast, please share it withothers, post about it on social
media and leave a rating andreview wherever you listen to
Winning.
To catch all of the latest fromus, you can follow Winning
Podcast on Instagram @ winning_podcast, Facebook @Winning
(45:12):
Podcast, and on Twitter @winning pod.
Winning was created and isproduced by me, Mackenzie
Kilshaw music, created by SummerFirby, editing by Seth
Armstrong.
Special thanks to Shauna Fosterfor voicing our opening and, of
course, a huge thank you tothis episode's guest.
Thanks again for listening andI'll see you on the next episode
(45:34):
.
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