July 28, 2025 • 41 mins
In this episode of Wisdom on the Front Porch, LS Kirkpatrick and Bruno Cignacco explore compassionate business practices. They discuss the human side of business, the challenges in adopting compassion, and creating psychologically safe workplaces. The conversation covers balancing micromanagement with employee autonomy, the role of generosity, and addressing the negative impacts of a profit-driven focus. Bruno shares strategies for compassionate growth, emphasizes employee well-being, and introduces his book. Tune in for insights on fostering positive relationships and reciprocity in business.
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(00:00):
Welcome to Wisdom on the Front Torch.
(00:02):
Subscribe, ring the bell, like, and share thewisdom.
To another
episode of Wisdom on the Front portion on myfront porch.
Today, we have Bruno who is in London rightnow.
So how are you doing?
I'm okay.
Thank you for your invite.
I feel very honored to be here.
Thank you.
Oh, thank you so much.
So tell our audience a little bit about who youare and what you do.
(00:26):
Okay.
Well, I'm a university professor here in TheUK.
I have been teaching to my student for the lastcount thirty years business modules, but also
I'm a consultant for the same amount of time,advising companies on import expertise,
marketing strategies, internationalnegotiation, cross cultural strategies.
(00:51):
But also in the last few years, I wrote a booktitled the art of compassionate business where
I I compile a lot of research studies on how tobe more profitable, but also more human
oriented.
There are two things that are not incompatible.
And since then, five years ago, we startedadvising companies on, for example, how to
(01:15):
develop a much more psychologically safeworkplace, how to develop much more meaningful
communication with different stakeholders suchas customers, employees, community members,
supplier, business partners, but also how todevelop a much more meaningful business
mission, which include economic aspect, profitmarket share, but also include social impact
(01:39):
and environmental effect positive environmentaleffect, bringing about a better planet.
And this is quite interesting because accordingto my research, I observed that there are
hundreds of company that are already testingout this new business paradigm, which include
not only the the hard indicator of businesssuccess such as profit market share, but also
(02:02):
what I call the qualitative aspect of business.
What it build strong or lasting relationshipwith different stakeholders such as this
qualitative aspects are, for example,camaraderie, kindness, compassion, generosity,
gratitude, and and others.
Yeah.
And those are usually things we don't thinkabout as business, but they're very important,
(02:26):
especially if you want to keep your clients andyou want them to refer you to other people they
know.
Yes.
And this is quite important because at the end,in business, everything is interdependent.
Many company don't think about this way, but inpractice, they are much more focused on what
can be counted, what can be measured preciselysuch as productivity, profitability, market
(02:53):
share, increase in sales.
However, we have to understand that inbusiness, the most important aspect, they're
not the quantitative aspect, what can bemeasured precisely, but the qualitative
aspects.
For example, compassion, camaraderie, kindness,and others.
And why this is so important?
Because we want all these stakeholders,suppliers, community members, business partner,
(03:18):
customer on our side.
No company can succeed without thesestakeholders, and you cannot force them to
cooperate with your company.
When you build this robust relationship withthe stakeholders by meeting this stakeholder
need duly, these stakeholders are more prone tocooperate with your company.
Instead, when you dismiss their needs, when youdon't care for customers, and on the contrary,
(03:42):
you try to deceive customers or manipulatethem.
When you exploit employees, this mean that youdon't meet the employees' minimal needs.
When you pollute the environment, not meetingthe needs of this community, or when you
develop win lose agreement with differentbusiness partners or suppliers or
intermediaries, these stakeholder tend towithdraw.
(04:03):
They tend not to cooperate.
And in some cases, they might leave negativereviews online, bringing up our negative
reputation for your company, which push awaysome potential high quality investor, push away
some talented employees that might work foryour company, push away some high quality
customer.
(04:23):
So I always say in my talks that I deliverworldwide that the most important factor in
business is the human being.
It's not artificial intelligence.
It's not technology.
It's not information, but it's the human beingbecause the human being is a meta resource.
It's a resource that help companies generateother resources such as, for example, marketing
(04:50):
strategies, innovative products, new services,nontraditional systems, and policies.
So when we care for the human beings, the otheraspect of business that are very important such
as profit market share are taking care ofthemselves by themselves.
Why?
Because the human being will help us achievethese key performance indicators, profit,
(05:14):
market share, productivity.
Yeah.
So as as you're developing this, did you get alot of negative feedback from maybe other
companies or those who didn't agree with you?
Yes.
Yes.
They they told me some cases, I find a lot ofresistance.
I found two groups of company.
(05:35):
Group a group of company that are moreaccepting, more welcoming with their views,
much more open minded.
And a second group of companies, traditionalcompany that have been using the traditional
business model, which is only profit driven.
And these companies, in some cases, they mightnot laugh at this new paradigm overtly, but
(05:58):
they say, don't have time to apply this model.
We have to look for profits.
We we don't have time to be kind to peoplebecause it doesn't bring any positive result on
our bottom line.
And when I explained to them that, for example,there are some very important business studies
that, for example, corroborate the fact thatwhen you develop a kind workplace, what we call
(06:26):
a psychologically safe workplace, whereemployees are supported in a regular basis.
Employees are mentored, coached.
The employees are trained on a regular basis,but these employees are also in this workplace,
the the opinions of these employees arewelcome.
They are not ridiculed.
And new ideas are also welcome in a very kindway.
(06:48):
And, also, these employees are supporting aregular basis, and they're cooperating with
each other.
There is a trust based workplace.
In these workplaces, we call psychologicallysafe workplaces.
According to research, there is higher employeesatisfaction.
Employees are more certified.
They're more productive, more motivated.
Higher customer satisfaction.
Why?
Because the employee that are certified, theythey have recently met, they tend to serve
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customer in a much more effective way.
They tend to be kinder.
They tend to be much more obliging.
They adopt naturally an attitude of service toour customers.
And this impact on positive customer reviews.
This bring about more customer reviews that arepositive.
But also in these workplaces, according toresearch, science based research, there is
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lower absenteeism, lower turnover, lower stresslevel.
Why?
Because people don't feel pressurized.
There is no burnout or very low rates ofburnout, and people want to go to work.
So lower absenteeism and lower turnover.
Why?
Because people love to work for that company.
And and all this indicator impact positively onthe bottom line profits coming up and on the
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company's reputation.
If you see this company, for example, on someplatforms such as Glassdoor, Glassdoor is a
platform where employees can leave theirreviews about the company, could be positive or
negative, could be the same.
This is a kind workplace.
You should be working for that company.
It could be saying the opposite.
These employees' reviews are very positive andthe customer reviews about the product offered
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by the company are also very positive, whatbring about a good brand image, good
reputation, which attract more customers, moretalented employees, better investors.
So it's a positive cycle.
So being kind is not only being nice.
It's strengthening, it's brightening therelationship with different stakeholder so that
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they can cooperate in a very spontaneous way,and they can contribute to this key performance
indicator, profitability, productivity,efficiency.
And this created positive cycle of reciprocity.
This mean that we're supporting people, we'resupporting customer, employees, community
members, suppliers, and they're supporting usin return.
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We're being kind and generous and grateful tothem, and they're responding in a similar way.
So this they're responding in a reciprocal way.
Many companies act in the opposite way.
They are dismissing customer.
They are not very caring with employees.
And what happened?
All these stakeholder withdraw.
(09:35):
They're not not not cooperating.
In some cases, employee leave the company forother job opportunity.
Customer will leave negative reviews and willleave well, also, stakeholder might be acting
against the company.
Yeah.
That's really great.
And I've seen it.
I've seen it many times.
So what would how would a company that hasnever worked that way before, how would they
(10:02):
start incorporating something like that intotheir company?
I mean, it can't be comfortable for them.
Yes.
Very important.
First first step is to be self aware that thismodel is possible.
And this model is not only strengtheningrelationship with different stakeholder, but
also bringing about concrete economic impacts.
(10:23):
In practice, you have to observe a companywhere when a nice companies when we're
delivering consensus and services with company,we analyze what they are doing wrongly and can
how can this be changed in a very simple waywith simple steps.
What I observe in many companies for example,let's talk about the workplace.
(10:44):
They cannot develop this psychologically safeworkplace because there is a lot of fear.
Fear.
There is a lot of fear, and fear basedworkplaces tend not to be compassionate
workplaces.
Why?
What are the type of fear that I observe in mypractice?
I observe that in some cases in the workplace,employees are fearful of making mistakes and
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being penalized, fearful of being outpaced bytheir colleagues.
For example for example, there is only onepromotion.
Well, instead of cooperating with theircolleagues, they start competing with their
colleagues.
And when you start competing with theircolleagues, how you can participate in a
competitive way in joint project, in project.
No.
You will try to fight with this colleague.
(11:29):
But also in Saint Kissy, I see a lot of fear ofinnovating.
Company that are very, very traditional, theythey try to prevent employees from rocking the
boat.
So let's not do things in a different way.
Let's keep this as traditional as possible,business as usual.
So at this type of fear, in some case,employees are fearful of being fired,
(11:53):
especially when companies are threateningemployees to downsize or to reduce the
structure organizational structure.
And when you are fearful, it's not my view, butaccording to psychologists and social
psychology, when you're fearful, you tend toadopt a defensive mode, what we call the
freeze, fight, flight mode, which puts you in astate of alert and also in a cautious state,
(12:19):
and you tend to feel threatened by, forexample, colleagues or by the potential
situation where you are fired or you arepenalized.
And when you are fearful, your, deservingskills, critical analysis skill, creative
skills, and others are temporarily impaired.
(12:40):
You cannot be so productive.
You cannot be so creative.
Why?
Because you are in a defensive mode.
What I always ask these companies to analyzetogether when we're delivering these services,
what are the pockets of fear?
Are there many policies within the company thatare fear based, that punish employees if they
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don't act in a certain way?
Is there a note of micromanaging?
Because micromanaging is based on fear.
Why is based on fear?
Because we don't trust employees that they cando their best according to their skill, their
capabilities, and we're treating them like theyare naughty children.
And they are not naughty children.
They cannot do their best because they arecontinually limited.
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And they have to offer permission in Sankisifor very simple decision.
They don't have any discretion.
They don't have any autonomy, freedom to act inthe best way they know according to their skill
and their expertise.
And in some cases, I observed company thatdeliver feedback in a punitive way, in a
penalizing way.
They try to admonish this employee.
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They say, you did this wrong and and defendthis situation, the setback of this employee in
a negative way instead of showing the way toimprovement, instead of coaching this employee,
instead of taking this employees in a humaneway, in a kind way so that this employee can
learn.
So fear is generally incompatible with what wecall a a compassionate workplace or a
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psychologically safe workplace.
So why?
Because they are in opposite energies.
So and in practice, this is the first step,discovering the the pockets of fear.
But then with very simple steps, one that thesepockets are discovered, acting the opposite
way.
I I I mentioned in my book that compassion isone of the most important values in business,
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which implies understanding how people think,how people feel in certain situation, and try
to help them especially when they facechallenging situation.
Let's give an example.
For example, let's imagine that we are themanager and we have one of the employees that
we manage that is going through a verychallenging time, and we discover they're going
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through a very, very challenging time at home.
They have, for example, some health issue withthe dependent and, well, a compassionate
manager will have a one to one talk to thisemployee.
Won't try to dismiss the situation.
Won't try won't try to pretend that thisdoesn't it does it's it's not there.
But they try to talk one to one.
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They will take their time.
I will try to see how they can help thisemployee, how how this employee can be helped,
for example, providing them with flexiblehours, providing them with some time off for
them to take care of their relatives, providingthem with some, for example, counseling.
Some company have some counseling services freefor this employee that could be, in some case,
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in a very difficult mental health challengebecause of this situation.
So this mean that we care for theirrelationship.
We care for the human being.
We don't treat this employee like a Coke or apart of the machinery that need to be
continually working like a robot automaton thatdoesn't have a life, doesn't have emotion,
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doesn't have a family.
These employees are flesh and bone human beingthat have family's dreams, can have some health
problem, challenges, bad experiences, positiveexperience, dreams, duration.
If we treat them only, what we call an aninstrumental way means this employee is only a
means to an end.
It's a tool that we use to achieve more profit.
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This employee might feel dehumanized.
I might feel that they're not being treated ina compassionate way.
And according to a very interesting studiesthat when a place feel that they're not treated
in a compassionate way, they have a negativeimage of their workplace, their colleagues, but
also they have a negative image image of thewhole company.
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And this can affect the reviews about thisworkplace that can be left, for example, in
Glassdoor or any other website where theemployees judge and criticize the company
either in a positive way or in a negative way.
So this mean that when employees feel treatedin a compassionate way, supportive, they are
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assisted whenever needed, but also should offersome help whenever possible and doesn't have to
be an economic help.
In some case, giving an ear is very importantbecause there is a full chapter in in my book
about generosity and business.
When I talk about generosity, we don't haveresources to to provide our stakeholder.
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In Saint Casey, the most important resourcesare intangible.
Giving an ear, giving some advice, giving maybesome counseling, maybe some coaching and
mentoring, supposing that this employee has lowperformance.
Can we train them?
Can we coach them?
Can there be some training on the job?
Can we help them through mentoring?
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This is quite relevant.
Can we give them some advice or technicalinformation?
Many cases, being generous with intangiblethings is as important as being generous with
tangible thing.
What will be tangible thing?
Giving this employee a bonus or giving economicsupport.
Both things are very important.
(18:22):
Yeah.
You brought up a good point that a lot of I'mnot gonna say a lot of.
I'll say it.
Some companies will say, we just can't affordthe extra support for time off, because we
really need all of our employees here.
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We can't afford to have, pay for the extra thatwe need to to pay for counseling or or other
things.
So what do you say to them on how to manage thefinances and still provide this happy
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environment?
What what I will say to them is that if youdon't support them in different way, this
employee is more prone to leave the company,which will represent an additional cost of
recruiting new employees, training from thescratch.
And also in some cases, if you don't help them,in some cases, this employee might get burned
out, but this will imply higher medical bills.
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This might create also a much more stressfulworkplace, which bring about not only a
negative impact on this employee, but also thewhole workplace.
Because in the workplace, all employees areinterdependent with each other.
So the idea is that if we think about only thebottom line and the profits and the market
share and productivity, in some cases, wesolely focus on this aspect.
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We tend to achieve this aspect by all means,which implies exploiting employees, not caring
for them.
In some case, we're going on the edge of theillegal aspect of the workplace or unethical
aspect, Deceiving customer, why?
Because we want the highest profit withproducts that might be low quality.
We care only about the profit.
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We don't care about customer satisfaction.
In some case, polluting the environment, wecare only about the the lowest cost of
production.
Could be the most polluting one and whathappened?
This can bring about lot of problem, not onlyenvironmental problem, but also maybe the
company might be receiving some negativeresponse from the community boycotting and
(20:30):
other aspect.
Certain type of action from the community thatthat would affect potentially the company
reputation.
So this mean that when we focus solely on theeconomic aspect, we tend to deplete our most
important result that is the human beings, therelationship with different stakeholders.
And this affect the company's reputation.
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And the company reputation will affectnegatively will bring about lower profit, lower
market share, lower share price, lowerproductivity, so it's all negative.
Right.
It's counterintuitive.
But in practice, when we focus, and I mentionedthis in my book, when we focus on building a
strong lasting relationship with thestakeholder, this mean that we certify all
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their needs because stakeholder don't have onlyeconomic needs.
They have only stakeholder have different typeof need.
They have economic needs, for example, need agood salary.
They have emotional need.
They need to be cared for.
They need to be appreciated.
They need to be recognized, supported whennecessary.
They have mental needs, need need forstimulation.
For example, employees don't want to feelbored.
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They don't want to feel demotivated.
They need to be trained, coached on a regularbasis so that they learn new skill, they
enhance their their current skill.
And also social skill means that employees canwork with one another.
They can socialize.
They have only, in some cases, an non no nobusiness meeting where they can socialize on a
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regular basis that they can know each other inmuch more humane way.
When we take into account all these needs thatare not only economic, you build a strong or
lasting relationship with this stakeholder,including employees, customer, and others.
And these stakeholders help you voluntarily toachieve this profit, market share,
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productivity, high reputation.
So you cannot force them to cooperate.
You cannot force them to cooperate, but theycan cooperate willingly when you help them.
You help them, and you're helping yourself.
If you are not helping them, you're notsupporting them, you are dismissive, and you
are non compassionate.
You are shooting on your foot because all thisstakeholder will go away against us.
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Why customer would leave positive reviews ifyou're selling low quality products and you are
taking advantage of them and you are isoffering shoddy products?
Why employees will leave positive reviews aboutyour company if you are exploiting them?
You're not paying extra hours.
You're paying less than minimum salary.
You're not caring for their emotional need.
You're not recognizing when they work overtime.
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Some employees give more than half their day towork for a company, and they don't receive even
a thank you note for their contribution.
I feel that this is heartless.
Why?
Because if you don't reinforce positivebehavior by being appreciative, by giving a
thank you note, by recognizing this employee ina public event so that they feel that they
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count, this employee, how do you expect in thefuture to continue contributing for your
company in a unconditional way?
This employee might think, you know what?
I haven't been recognized.
I don't count here.
I wasted my time.
Even I have a so so salary, I might look foranother company that I feel much more
motivated, that my contribution is meaningful.
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Yeah.
So you're definitely gonna have a higherturnover if you don't have employees who are
satisfied where they're working or or wherethey feel like like they just don't matter.
So why should they stay there?
They'll go look for something else.
So I'm thinking for the entrepreneur who'slooking forward, looking at when they're gonna
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have more and more employees, how do they setup a structure so that they can take care of of
anything?
Do you have some kind of a a plan or formulaset up so they can get the structure in place
as their business grows?
Yeah.
The structure of every business will depends onthe activity, the product, and services that
(24:37):
they serve, and also the offer to themarketplace.
But what I won't focus so much on thestructure, the structure might vary from
company to company, but we'll focus on someprinciple that are very important.
For example, regardless of the structuring withthis very hierarchical or not, what I found
that company that are most successfully are thecompanies where they tend to have not so much a
(25:03):
hierarchical organization where they Okay.
The the the levels are very well limited, andpeople on the top are acting in a know it all
or no humble way.
But there are company that are always welcomingfeedback from all sides or looks of the the
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company.
This mean that they're very open to feedback.
Company, for example, that where employees cangive feedback to the managers and vice versa.
It's not one way feedback.
And for example, where feedback can be given,for example, from the production department to
the marketing department and vice versa.
Company, for example, when you have, forexample, department, marketing department,
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accounting department, human result, but theyhave a lot of what we call cross departmental
meeting or cross functional meeting where youhave representative of different department.
When different department, when there areimportant decision, can give their views on
this decision.
This mean they keep the decision from themarketing perspective, from the accounting
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perspective, from the productive perspective,and so on.
And companies also that are open to feedback ingeneral.
This mean that employees do not feel fear ofmaking new suggestion or proposing innovative
products that can be sold in the market or inimproving the way that we deal with customer,
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we serve customer.
So this mean that this company, regardless ofthe structure, are open to change, are open to
innovation.
Because imagine that in this turbulentmarketplace and turbulent business environment,
what is important is to be adaptive and toinnovate whenever possible.
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In my book, I have two chapter about innovationin business and what I found that company that
are innovative and innovative in in a generalway with new product and service, but also
innovating in the way that they serve customeror they deliver the product to customer and so
on.
This company tend to be more adaptive to achanging condition.
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Instead, when an employee feel more certified,why?
Because they can provide the company withinputs, valuable input, and they feel that they
count.
They feel this is what's very important.
They feel that they're contributing in ameaningful way to their business purpose.
You see some companies are they they have veryclear roles where the one making the decision
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is not open to input from any other area of thecompany, and it's one making the decision
concentrated generally on the top, and theother ones will be implemented, the decision.
And there is no communication between them.
And in this company that they're acting thewrong way, you have what we call silos.
Silos are department that are not communicatingwith one another.
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The marketing department will have their sharesof power, but they they won't share any
information or resources with other department.
They are acting in a very isolated way.
These companies are less prone to to progress,to to try.
Another point that I've said regarding thestructure is we have to give time the place to
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have a rest.
And this is I'm talking about a very obviousthing, but believe it or not, I see some
companies here in The UK where employees arebombarded by emails, seven or eight Zoom
meetings a day.
How can employees can take a little break tohave a coffee with a colleague to a break to
(28:42):
revitalize and and replenish their energy andcome back to clear their focus and then come
back much more focused, much more center ofwhat need to be done.
Some companies simply can't even talk aboutwhat they have done during the weekend because
they don't have time to have a sandwich.
Oh.
On the on the other side, you see company thatare acting in a very excellent way at what they
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do.
Not only they give enough time during the dayfor employees to have the minimal risk, but
it's very important for replacing their ownenergy, but also they have what I call social
events.
They have, for example, one social event a weekwhere employees can meet after work to, for
example, have dinner.
There are no roles in those meetings.
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Employee can talk.
For example, the CEO can be talking to thecustomer service officer one to one.
Like, they were friends, And people let theirhair down there in this meeting, and so they
are they are relaxed.
They are acting like colleague, like friends.
They know aspect of their life that are notrelated to their roles, their family, hobbies,
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friends, friends, past times, and they theywhat they do during holidays, and they come
back to work differently, revitalize, refresh.
This this this type of social event strengthenthe the the bonds between employees, and they
tend to become much more productive.
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They tend to become much more creative, morecooperative.
They know in this meeting, they know on a amental and emotional level and much more human
level.
Yeah.
And the this affect the workplace in a positiveway, creating much more trust in the workplace,
much more cooperation, and much morepsychological safety.
(30:31):
Yeah.
Very true.
Yeah.
I was thinking about some of the places thatI've worked in, especially in factory work.
A lot of people aren't happy in factory workunless they're in a community that do care
about each of its employees.
You know, you've you've got the ones who makesure that you've you're you're okay.
(30:54):
You've got all the safety equipment you need,that you're taking your breaks, that you're,
you know, you're just just have everything youneed as an employee, and and you don't have to
worry about anything.
And then I've been in the companies where it'slike, well, we have to cut back, so you're
(31:15):
gonna have to work overtime.
We don't have all the safety features here.
I mean, we've got enough to pass OSHA, butnothing more than that.
And and it's very, very different workenvironments.
Yeah.
You know, on on either one, sometimes you feellike you can't leave because maybe they're the
(31:37):
only only job in town that's that's payinganything, You know, if you go to the smaller
towns but I've even been in the smaller townswhere you have that, but they treat you really
well.
And I don't really understand why an employeewould not want to treat their an employer would
(32:01):
not want to treat their employees well to makesure that they're cared of.
And I understand sometimes, you know, they'vegot production coming up and whatnot that they
have to meet.
But I don't I don't know if you have it overthere, but we had a job over or a a television
program over here called dirty jobs.
(32:21):
And he would go into these companies, and someof them he would go into would be laughing and
and joyful and and helping each other.
And most of them are really good, but everyonce in while, you'd see him be an employee
where everything was very strict on howeverything was done.
And it was it was quite interesting to seethat, you know, to see the difference on
(32:44):
employees themselves.
Yes.
And I want to mention about this issue is thatemotions, according to science, are contagious.
So this mean that when people start starttreating one another, positive emotion are
contagious and negative emotion are contagious.
So let's imagine that we have the boss comingto the workplace, and he's coming very angry
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and shouting at employees.
I have seen this myself, shouting at employees,treating these employees in a very descriptive
way, in a very disparaging way.
And this employee that probably were before ina good mood, they absorbed.
They were infected by this anger, and theystarted experiencing negative emotion.
Let's compare the situation with a situationwhere the the boss come in a very good mood and
(33:34):
treat his employee as family.
How are you?
Some cases, the boss even give some hugs to theemployees.
I've seen this too.
So and this create a different workplace.
Why?
Because people tend to be more productive whenyou're when they're feeling positive emotion.
According to research studies, when people arefeeling positive emotion, they tend to be more
(33:56):
creative, more productive more productive, moremotivated.
So and they tend to be much more insightfulwith their ideas.
Instead, when people are infused negativeemotion and they start experiencing this
negative emotion, they're more prone to adoptwhat we mentioned before, this freeze, fight,
flight mode, the defensive mode.
I don't trust my boss, but don't trust mycolleagues.
(34:18):
I don't want to share resources.
I feel a bit, like, threatened.
I'm not sure I I will just try to act safe.
I don't want to act in a nontraditional way.
I try to keep this to the minimal, less work bythe book.
Yeah.
And I've heard I haven't looked at the numbersmyself, but I've heard that in companies where
(34:38):
they are more angry, I guess, more tense, tendto have a lot more injuries than the companies
where they're feeling they feel that they'reworthwhile, that they're valued.
It's possible because employees, when they feelthreatened by the emotions of others, they feel
(35:01):
infected by this negative emotion.
We have to admit that this employee, their thiscertain skill might be lessened, might be
temporarily impaired, and they might not bethinking very clearly their critical analysis
skills that are very important to make gooddecision to manage, for example, a risky
equipment in a same way could be impaired.
(35:25):
This this is skill.
So it's very important to take into accountthat positivity tend to bring about positivity
in the workplace.
Right.
They are the same, coupled with negativity.
Negativity, negative emotion, treating othersin a in an unkind way generate a negative cycle
of reciprocity.
When people start imagine that they see fromthe boss.
(35:46):
The the boss treating others in a negative way,in an unkind way.
This boss is a negative role model.
This is the model that we have.
Maybe we start emulating this model, but it'sthe wrong model.
So and this generate a lot of distress, a lotof lack of cooperation, and people are not
caring for one another.
(36:07):
What bring about negative result, and manypeople obviously are more prone to leave the
company or get ill or being absent or in somecase, become more stressed.
Yeah.
Or they bring it home.
And now all of that that they're they've beendealing with, they start putting on to their
family, and they don't realize how much thatthat stress is at home.
(36:32):
We had a family member actually who worked in avery high stress situation, and it was all
about getting to others first and and tryingto, you know, slide in under other companies
and and outbid them and things like this.
I mean, it was it was pretty, pretty shady andand whatnot.
(36:55):
And that family member didn't even realize thatthey were acting that way at home too.
Totally different personality.
And once they went to a different company, youknow, within a month, it was like a whole
different person.
And and when when someone had said to them, youknow, it's like, well, I can sure tell you're
(37:17):
working at a better place now.
They were like, why?
It's like, you're a whole different person.
And they didn't think that the company affectedthem.
They knew what it was like there, but they theywere trying to fight it the whole time.
But they didn't realize that it had stillaffected them and it affected their family.
This is so important because, you know, whatmany company do not even think about the
(37:40):
concept of work life balance.
Yeah.
Work life balance.
It's not only work.
We're human being before becoming employees.
These are family members.
They are they have friends.
They have call acquaintances and otherrelatives.
And when you do not bring about a warlikebalance, this tend to bring about negative
(38:02):
effect on, for example, family environment andother environment, and this simply tend to be a
bit resentful toward this company because theydon't have time to see their children well or
to care for their partner and so on.
Instead of what I observed that there are othercompany that are acting in much more
compassionate way, and what they do, in somecases, they offer this employee nursery
(38:25):
insight.
So this mean where the employee can take theirchildren, they can see at during midday or
during their break, they can see theirchildren.
This is paid by the company, and this employee,according to the assessment and the survey, is
more productive and more certified.
Why?
Because they take a problem off their mind.
(38:46):
Incentivist, employee provide they are providedby counseling services.
This mean that if they have any problem, anychallenge that could be unrelated to work, this
employee supported by professional that arededicated to this employee well-being.
Because they know that when employeesexperience this state of well-being tend to be
(39:08):
not only better outside work, but better atwork.
Because employee, you you separate thisdimension.
The the no more dimension, family, friends fromthe more dimension.
Everything is interconnected.
If the employee have some challenges at home,this will affect the work.
And many company don't understand this.
(39:28):
Employee do not leave their emotions when theyenter the company.
But I see many company that are notcompassionate that employees cannot talk about
their emotion because they feel the managerfeel that this emotion can be disruptive
disruptive of the workplace and so on, butemployees cannot get rid of their emotion.
They suppress or repress, and this will affectdirectly their performance, their creativity,
(39:55):
their effectiveness
Yeah.
Of course.
Yeah.
Definitely.
So tell us how can people get ahold of you tolearn more about about this, and where can they
get your book?
Okay.
Well, the book is titled The Art ofCompassionate Business, published by Rulich.
This can be found online, Amazon, or any otherwebsite, Barnes and Noble, but but also
(40:21):
physical bookstores worldwide.
So this is all worldwide.
And this is second edition that have more than450 pages and include hundreds of cases of
compassionate organization from differentsector, service manufacturing, big companies,
small company, nonprofit organization, and givea lot of examples of search research based
(40:46):
evidence on how to become more generous,grateful, and meaningful and human oriented in
business.
They can find me they can find me on LinkedIn.
They can type bruno cignacco with double c atthe end, and they can find me also on my
website, www.brunocignacco.com.
(41:07):
I spell brunocignacco.com.
Thank you very much.
Great.
Great.
Thank you so much for being here.
This has been very valuable.
And
Thank very much.
Audience for listening in today, and we'll seeyou next time on Wisdom on the Front Porch.
Thank you.
(41:30):
Thank you, my front porch friends andneighbors, for pulling up a chair with me and
my guest today on wisdom on the front porch.
Now if you've got value from this conversation,would you do me a favor?
Leave a quick review, then share it withsomeone you know who could use some
inspiration.
It helps more friends find their seat on theporch.
Okay.
Make sure you're subscribe so you never misswhat's next.
(41:50):
Until then, keep the porch light on for newwisdom every time you show up.
Your seat's always here for
you on the porch.
Welcome to Wisdom on the Front Torch.
(00:02):
Subscribe, ring the bell, like, and share thewisdom.
To another
episode of Wisdom on the Front portion on myfront porch.
Today, we have Bruno who is in London rightnow.
So how are you doing?
I'm okay.
Thank you for your invite.
I feel very honored to be here.
Thank you.
Oh, thank you so much.
So tell our audience a little bit about who youare and what you do.
(00:26):
Okay.
Well, I'm a university professor here in TheUK.
I have been teaching to my student for the lastcount thirty years business modules, but also
I'm a consultant for the same amount of time,advising companies on import expertise,
marketing strategies, internationalnegotiation, cross cultural strategies.
(00:51):
But also in the last few years, I wrote a booktitled the art of compassionate business where
I I compile a lot of research studies on how tobe more profitable, but also more human
oriented.
There are two things that are not incompatible.
And since then, five years ago, we startedadvising companies on, for example, how to
(01:15):
develop a much more psychologically safeworkplace, how to develop much more meaningful
communication with different stakeholders suchas customers, employees, community members,
supplier, business partners, but also how todevelop a much more meaningful business
mission, which include economic aspect, profitmarket share, but also include social impact
(01:39):
and environmental effect positive environmentaleffect, bringing about a better planet.
And this is quite interesting because accordingto my research, I observed that there are
hundreds of company that are already testingout this new business paradigm, which include
not only the the hard indicator of businesssuccess such as profit market share, but also
(02:02):
what I call the qualitative aspect of business.
What it build strong or lasting relationshipwith different stakeholders such as this
qualitative aspects are, for example,camaraderie, kindness, compassion, generosity,
gratitude, and and others.
Yeah.
And those are usually things we don't thinkabout as business, but they're very important,
(02:26):
especially if you want to keep your clients andyou want them to refer you to other people they
know.
Yes.
And this is quite important because at the end,in business, everything is interdependent.
Many company don't think about this way, but inpractice, they are much more focused on what
can be counted, what can be measured preciselysuch as productivity, profitability, market
(02:53):
share, increase in sales.
However, we have to understand that inbusiness, the most important aspect, they're
not the quantitative aspect, what can bemeasured precisely, but the qualitative
aspects.
For example, compassion, camaraderie, kindness,and others.
And why this is so important?
Because we want all these stakeholders,suppliers, community members, business partner,
(03:18):
customer on our side.
No company can succeed without thesestakeholders, and you cannot force them to
cooperate with your company.
When you build this robust relationship withthe stakeholders by meeting this stakeholder
need duly, these stakeholders are more prone tocooperate with your company.
Instead, when you dismiss their needs, when youdon't care for customers, and on the contrary,
(03:42):
you try to deceive customers or manipulatethem.
When you exploit employees, this mean that youdon't meet the employees' minimal needs.
When you pollute the environment, not meetingthe needs of this community, or when you
develop win lose agreement with differentbusiness partners or suppliers or
intermediaries, these stakeholder tend towithdraw.
(04:03):
They tend not to cooperate.
And in some cases, they might leave negativereviews online, bringing up our negative
reputation for your company, which push awaysome potential high quality investor, push away
some talented employees that might work foryour company, push away some high quality
customer.
(04:23):
So I always say in my talks that I deliverworldwide that the most important factor in
business is the human being.
It's not artificial intelligence.
It's not technology.
It's not information, but it's the human beingbecause the human being is a meta resource.
It's a resource that help companies generateother resources such as, for example, marketing
(04:50):
strategies, innovative products, new services,nontraditional systems, and policies.
So when we care for the human beings, the otheraspect of business that are very important such
as profit market share are taking care ofthemselves by themselves.
Why?
Because the human being will help us achievethese key performance indicators, profit,
(05:14):
market share, productivity.
Yeah.
So as as you're developing this, did you get alot of negative feedback from maybe other
companies or those who didn't agree with you?
Yes.
Yes.
They they told me some cases, I find a lot ofresistance.
I found two groups of company.
(05:35):
Group a group of company that are moreaccepting, more welcoming with their views,
much more open minded.
And a second group of companies, traditionalcompany that have been using the traditional
business model, which is only profit driven.
And these companies, in some cases, they mightnot laugh at this new paradigm overtly, but
(05:58):
they say, don't have time to apply this model.
We have to look for profits.
We we don't have time to be kind to peoplebecause it doesn't bring any positive result on
our bottom line.
And when I explained to them that, for example,there are some very important business studies
that, for example, corroborate the fact thatwhen you develop a kind workplace, what we call
(06:26):
a psychologically safe workplace, whereemployees are supported in a regular basis.
Employees are mentored, coached.
The employees are trained on a regular basis,but these employees are also in this workplace,
the the opinions of these employees arewelcome.
They are not ridiculed.
And new ideas are also welcome in a very kindway.
(06:48):
And, also, these employees are supporting aregular basis, and they're cooperating with
each other.
There is a trust based workplace.
In these workplaces, we call psychologicallysafe workplaces.
According to research, there is higher employeesatisfaction.
Employees are more certified.
They're more productive, more motivated.
Higher customer satisfaction.
Why?
Because the employee that are certified, theythey have recently met, they tend to serve
(07:13):
customer in a much more effective way.
They tend to be kinder.
They tend to be much more obliging.
They adopt naturally an attitude of service toour customers.
And this impact on positive customer reviews.
This bring about more customer reviews that arepositive.
But also in these workplaces, according toresearch, science based research, there is
(07:35):
lower absenteeism, lower turnover, lower stresslevel.
Why?
Because people don't feel pressurized.
There is no burnout or very low rates ofburnout, and people want to go to work.
So lower absenteeism and lower turnover.
Why?
Because people love to work for that company.
And and all this indicator impact positively onthe bottom line profits coming up and on the
(08:02):
company's reputation.
If you see this company, for example, on someplatforms such as Glassdoor, Glassdoor is a
platform where employees can leave theirreviews about the company, could be positive or
negative, could be the same.
This is a kind workplace.
You should be working for that company.
It could be saying the opposite.
These employees' reviews are very positive andthe customer reviews about the product offered
(08:27):
by the company are also very positive, whatbring about a good brand image, good
reputation, which attract more customers, moretalented employees, better investors.
So it's a positive cycle.
So being kind is not only being nice.
It's strengthening, it's brightening therelationship with different stakeholder so that
(08:49):
they can cooperate in a very spontaneous way,and they can contribute to this key performance
indicator, profitability, productivity,efficiency.
And this created positive cycle of reciprocity.
This mean that we're supporting people, we'resupporting customer, employees, community
members, suppliers, and they're supporting usin return.
(09:13):
We're being kind and generous and grateful tothem, and they're responding in a similar way.
So this they're responding in a reciprocal way.
Many companies act in the opposite way.
They are dismissing customer.
They are not very caring with employees.
And what happened?
All these stakeholder withdraw.
(09:35):
They're not not not cooperating.
In some cases, employee leave the company forother job opportunity.
Customer will leave negative reviews and willleave well, also, stakeholder might be acting
against the company.
Yeah.
That's really great.
And I've seen it.
I've seen it many times.
So what would how would a company that hasnever worked that way before, how would they
(10:02):
start incorporating something like that intotheir company?
I mean, it can't be comfortable for them.
Yes.
Very important.
First first step is to be self aware that thismodel is possible.
And this model is not only strengtheningrelationship with different stakeholder, but
also bringing about concrete economic impacts.
(10:23):
In practice, you have to observe a companywhere when a nice companies when we're
delivering consensus and services with company,we analyze what they are doing wrongly and can
how can this be changed in a very simple waywith simple steps.
What I observe in many companies for example,let's talk about the workplace.
(10:44):
They cannot develop this psychologically safeworkplace because there is a lot of fear.
Fear.
There is a lot of fear, and fear basedworkplaces tend not to be compassionate
workplaces.
Why?
What are the type of fear that I observe in mypractice?
I observe that in some cases in the workplace,employees are fearful of making mistakes and
(11:05):
being penalized, fearful of being outpaced bytheir colleagues.
For example for example, there is only onepromotion.
Well, instead of cooperating with theircolleagues, they start competing with their
colleagues.
And when you start competing with theircolleagues, how you can participate in a
competitive way in joint project, in project.
No.
You will try to fight with this colleague.
(11:29):
But also in Saint Kissy, I see a lot of fear ofinnovating.
Company that are very, very traditional, theythey try to prevent employees from rocking the
boat.
So let's not do things in a different way.
Let's keep this as traditional as possible,business as usual.
So at this type of fear, in some case,employees are fearful of being fired,
(11:53):
especially when companies are threateningemployees to downsize or to reduce the
structure organizational structure.
And when you are fearful, it's not my view, butaccording to psychologists and social
psychology, when you're fearful, you tend toadopt a defensive mode, what we call the
freeze, fight, flight mode, which puts you in astate of alert and also in a cautious state,
(12:19):
and you tend to feel threatened by, forexample, colleagues or by the potential
situation where you are fired or you arepenalized.
And when you are fearful, your, deservingskills, critical analysis skill, creative
skills, and others are temporarily impaired.
(12:40):
You cannot be so productive.
You cannot be so creative.
Why?
Because you are in a defensive mode.
What I always ask these companies to analyzetogether when we're delivering these services,
what are the pockets of fear?
Are there many policies within the company thatare fear based, that punish employees if they
(13:02):
don't act in a certain way?
Is there a note of micromanaging?
Because micromanaging is based on fear.
Why is based on fear?
Because we don't trust employees that they cando their best according to their skill, their
capabilities, and we're treating them like theyare naughty children.
And they are not naughty children.
They cannot do their best because they arecontinually limited.
(13:24):
And they have to offer permission in Sankisifor very simple decision.
They don't have any discretion.
They don't have any autonomy, freedom to act inthe best way they know according to their skill
and their expertise.
And in some cases, I observed company thatdeliver feedback in a punitive way, in a
penalizing way.
They try to admonish this employee.
(13:47):
They say, you did this wrong and and defendthis situation, the setback of this employee in
a negative way instead of showing the way toimprovement, instead of coaching this employee,
instead of taking this employees in a humaneway, in a kind way so that this employee can
learn.
So fear is generally incompatible with what wecall a a compassionate workplace or a
(14:12):
psychologically safe workplace.
So why?
Because they are in opposite energies.
So and in practice, this is the first step,discovering the the pockets of fear.
But then with very simple steps, one that thesepockets are discovered, acting the opposite
way.
I I I mentioned in my book that compassion isone of the most important values in business,
(14:40):
which implies understanding how people think,how people feel in certain situation, and try
to help them especially when they facechallenging situation.
Let's give an example.
For example, let's imagine that we are themanager and we have one of the employees that
we manage that is going through a verychallenging time, and we discover they're going
(15:04):
through a very, very challenging time at home.
They have, for example, some health issue withthe dependent and, well, a compassionate
manager will have a one to one talk to thisemployee.
Won't try to dismiss the situation.
Won't try won't try to pretend that thisdoesn't it does it's it's not there.
But they try to talk one to one.
(15:25):
They will take their time.
I will try to see how they can help thisemployee, how how this employee can be helped,
for example, providing them with flexiblehours, providing them with some time off for
them to take care of their relatives, providingthem with some, for example, counseling.
Some company have some counseling services freefor this employee that could be, in some case,
(15:48):
in a very difficult mental health challengebecause of this situation.
So this mean that we care for theirrelationship.
We care for the human being.
We don't treat this employee like a Coke or apart of the machinery that need to be
continually working like a robot automaton thatdoesn't have a life, doesn't have emotion,
(16:12):
doesn't have a family.
These employees are flesh and bone human beingthat have family's dreams, can have some health
problem, challenges, bad experiences, positiveexperience, dreams, duration.
If we treat them only, what we call an aninstrumental way means this employee is only a
means to an end.
It's a tool that we use to achieve more profit.
(16:36):
This employee might feel dehumanized.
I might feel that they're not being treated ina compassionate way.
And according to a very interesting studiesthat when a place feel that they're not treated
in a compassionate way, they have a negativeimage of their workplace, their colleagues, but
also they have a negative image image of thewhole company.
(16:57):
And this can affect the reviews about thisworkplace that can be left, for example, in
Glassdoor or any other website where theemployees judge and criticize the company
either in a positive way or in a negative way.
So this mean that when employees feel treatedin a compassionate way, supportive, they are
(17:18):
assisted whenever needed, but also should offersome help whenever possible and doesn't have to
be an economic help.
In some case, giving an ear is very importantbecause there is a full chapter in in my book
about generosity and business.
When I talk about generosity, we don't haveresources to to provide our stakeholder.
(17:40):
In Saint Casey, the most important resourcesare intangible.
Giving an ear, giving some advice, giving maybesome counseling, maybe some coaching and
mentoring, supposing that this employee has lowperformance.
Can we train them?
Can we coach them?
Can there be some training on the job?
Can we help them through mentoring?
(18:01):
This is quite relevant.
Can we give them some advice or technicalinformation?
Many cases, being generous with intangiblethings is as important as being generous with
tangible thing.
What will be tangible thing?
Giving this employee a bonus or giving economicsupport.
Both things are very important.
(18:22):
Yeah.
You brought up a good point that a lot of I'mnot gonna say a lot of.
I'll say it.
Some companies will say, we just can't affordthe extra support for time off, because we
really need all of our employees here.
(18:44):
We can't afford to have, pay for the extra thatwe need to to pay for counseling or or other
things.
So what do you say to them on how to manage thefinances and still provide this happy
(19:04):
environment?
What what I will say to them is that if youdon't support them in different way, this
employee is more prone to leave the company,which will represent an additional cost of
recruiting new employees, training from thescratch.
And also in some cases, if you don't help them,in some cases, this employee might get burned
out, but this will imply higher medical bills.
(19:26):
This might create also a much more stressfulworkplace, which bring about not only a
negative impact on this employee, but also thewhole workplace.
Because in the workplace, all employees areinterdependent with each other.
So the idea is that if we think about only thebottom line and the profits and the market
share and productivity, in some cases, wesolely focus on this aspect.
(19:49):
We tend to achieve this aspect by all means,which implies exploiting employees, not caring
for them.
In some case, we're going on the edge of theillegal aspect of the workplace or unethical
aspect, Deceiving customer, why?
Because we want the highest profit withproducts that might be low quality.
We care only about the profit.
(20:10):
We don't care about customer satisfaction.
In some case, polluting the environment, wecare only about the the lowest cost of
production.
Could be the most polluting one and whathappened?
This can bring about lot of problem, not onlyenvironmental problem, but also maybe the
company might be receiving some negativeresponse from the community boycotting and
(20:30):
other aspect.
Certain type of action from the community thatthat would affect potentially the company
reputation.
So this mean that when we focus solely on theeconomic aspect, we tend to deplete our most
important result that is the human beings, therelationship with different stakeholders.
And this affect the company's reputation.
(20:52):
And the company reputation will affectnegatively will bring about lower profit, lower
market share, lower share price, lowerproductivity, so it's all negative.
Right.
It's counterintuitive.
But in practice, when we focus, and I mentionedthis in my book, when we focus on building a
strong lasting relationship with thestakeholder, this mean that we certify all
(21:17):
their needs because stakeholder don't have onlyeconomic needs.
They have only stakeholder have different typeof need.
They have economic needs, for example, need agood salary.
They have emotional need.
They need to be cared for.
They need to be appreciated.
They need to be recognized, supported whennecessary.
They have mental needs, need need forstimulation.
For example, employees don't want to feelbored.
(21:38):
They don't want to feel demotivated.
They need to be trained, coached on a regularbasis so that they learn new skill, they
enhance their their current skill.
And also social skill means that employees canwork with one another.
They can socialize.
They have only, in some cases, an non no nobusiness meeting where they can socialize on a
(21:59):
regular basis that they can know each other inmuch more humane way.
When we take into account all these needs thatare not only economic, you build a strong or
lasting relationship with this stakeholder,including employees, customer, and others.
And these stakeholders help you voluntarily toachieve this profit, market share,
(22:20):
productivity, high reputation.
So you cannot force them to cooperate.
You cannot force them to cooperate, but theycan cooperate willingly when you help them.
You help them, and you're helping yourself.
If you are not helping them, you're notsupporting them, you are dismissive, and you
are non compassionate.
You are shooting on your foot because all thisstakeholder will go away against us.
(22:44):
Why customer would leave positive reviews ifyou're selling low quality products and you are
taking advantage of them and you are isoffering shoddy products?
Why employees will leave positive reviews aboutyour company if you are exploiting them?
You're not paying extra hours.
You're paying less than minimum salary.
You're not caring for their emotional need.
You're not recognizing when they work overtime.
(23:06):
Some employees give more than half their day towork for a company, and they don't receive even
a thank you note for their contribution.
I feel that this is heartless.
Why?
Because if you don't reinforce positivebehavior by being appreciative, by giving a
thank you note, by recognizing this employee ina public event so that they feel that they
(23:28):
count, this employee, how do you expect in thefuture to continue contributing for your
company in a unconditional way?
This employee might think, you know what?
I haven't been recognized.
I don't count here.
I wasted my time.
Even I have a so so salary, I might look foranother company that I feel much more
motivated, that my contribution is meaningful.
(23:48):
Yeah.
So you're definitely gonna have a higherturnover if you don't have employees who are
satisfied where they're working or or wherethey feel like like they just don't matter.
So why should they stay there?
They'll go look for something else.
So I'm thinking for the entrepreneur who'slooking forward, looking at when they're gonna
(24:15):
have more and more employees, how do they setup a structure so that they can take care of of
anything?
Do you have some kind of a a plan or formulaset up so they can get the structure in place
as their business grows?
Yeah.
The structure of every business will depends onthe activity, the product, and services that
(24:37):
they serve, and also the offer to themarketplace.
But what I won't focus so much on thestructure, the structure might vary from
company to company, but we'll focus on someprinciple that are very important.
For example, regardless of the structuring withthis very hierarchical or not, what I found
that company that are most successfully are thecompanies where they tend to have not so much a
(25:03):
hierarchical organization where they Okay.
The the the levels are very well limited, andpeople on the top are acting in a know it all
or no humble way.
But there are company that are always welcomingfeedback from all sides or looks of the the
(25:23):
company.
This mean that they're very open to feedback.
Company, for example, that where employees cangive feedback to the managers and vice versa.
It's not one way feedback.
And for example, where feedback can be given,for example, from the production department to
the marketing department and vice versa.
Company, for example, when you have, forexample, department, marketing department,
(25:46):
accounting department, human result, but theyhave a lot of what we call cross departmental
meeting or cross functional meeting where youhave representative of different department.
When different department, when there areimportant decision, can give their views on
this decision.
This mean they keep the decision from themarketing perspective, from the accounting
(26:07):
perspective, from the productive perspective,and so on.
And companies also that are open to feedback ingeneral.
This mean that employees do not feel fear ofmaking new suggestion or proposing innovative
products that can be sold in the market or inimproving the way that we deal with customer,
(26:29):
we serve customer.
So this mean that this company, regardless ofthe structure, are open to change, are open to
innovation.
Because imagine that in this turbulentmarketplace and turbulent business environment,
what is important is to be adaptive and toinnovate whenever possible.
(26:50):
In my book, I have two chapter about innovationin business and what I found that company that
are innovative and innovative in in a generalway with new product and service, but also
innovating in the way that they serve customeror they deliver the product to customer and so
on.
This company tend to be more adaptive to achanging condition.
(27:11):
Instead, when an employee feel more certified,why?
Because they can provide the company withinputs, valuable input, and they feel that they
count.
They feel this is what's very important.
They feel that they're contributing in ameaningful way to their business purpose.
You see some companies are they they have veryclear roles where the one making the decision
(27:32):
is not open to input from any other area of thecompany, and it's one making the decision
concentrated generally on the top, and theother ones will be implemented, the decision.
And there is no communication between them.
And in this company that they're acting thewrong way, you have what we call silos.
Silos are department that are not communicatingwith one another.
(27:55):
The marketing department will have their sharesof power, but they they won't share any
information or resources with other department.
They are acting in a very isolated way.
These companies are less prone to to progress,to to try.
Another point that I've said regarding thestructure is we have to give time the place to
(28:19):
have a rest.
And this is I'm talking about a very obviousthing, but believe it or not, I see some
companies here in The UK where employees arebombarded by emails, seven or eight Zoom
meetings a day.
How can employees can take a little break tohave a coffee with a colleague to a break to
(28:42):
revitalize and and replenish their energy andcome back to clear their focus and then come
back much more focused, much more center ofwhat need to be done.
Some companies simply can't even talk aboutwhat they have done during the weekend because
they don't have time to have a sandwich.
Oh.
On the on the other side, you see company thatare acting in a very excellent way at what they
(29:06):
do.
Not only they give enough time during the dayfor employees to have the minimal risk, but
it's very important for replacing their ownenergy, but also they have what I call social
events.
They have, for example, one social event a weekwhere employees can meet after work to, for
example, have dinner.
There are no roles in those meetings.
(29:26):
Employee can talk.
For example, the CEO can be talking to thecustomer service officer one to one.
Like, they were friends, And people let theirhair down there in this meeting, and so they
are they are relaxed.
They are acting like colleague, like friends.
They know aspect of their life that are notrelated to their roles, their family, hobbies,
(29:49):
friends, friends, past times, and they theywhat they do during holidays, and they come
back to work differently, revitalize, refresh.
This this this type of social event strengthenthe the the bonds between employees, and they
tend to become much more productive.
(30:09):
They tend to become much more creative, morecooperative.
They know in this meeting, they know on a amental and emotional level and much more human
level.
Yeah.
And the this affect the workplace in a positiveway, creating much more trust in the workplace,
much more cooperation, and much morepsychological safety.
(30:31):
Yeah.
Very true.
Yeah.
I was thinking about some of the places thatI've worked in, especially in factory work.
A lot of people aren't happy in factory workunless they're in a community that do care
about each of its employees.
You know, you've you've got the ones who makesure that you've you're you're okay.
(30:54):
You've got all the safety equipment you need,that you're taking your breaks, that you're,
you know, you're just just have everything youneed as an employee, and and you don't have to
worry about anything.
And then I've been in the companies where it'slike, well, we have to cut back, so you're
(31:15):
gonna have to work overtime.
We don't have all the safety features here.
I mean, we've got enough to pass OSHA, butnothing more than that.
And and it's very, very different workenvironments.
Yeah.
You know, on on either one, sometimes you feellike you can't leave because maybe they're the
(31:37):
only only job in town that's that's payinganything, You know, if you go to the smaller
towns but I've even been in the smaller townswhere you have that, but they treat you really
well.
And I don't really understand why an employeewould not want to treat their an employer would
(32:01):
not want to treat their employees well to makesure that they're cared of.
And I understand sometimes, you know, they'vegot production coming up and whatnot that they
have to meet.
But I don't I don't know if you have it overthere, but we had a job over or a a television
program over here called dirty jobs.
(32:21):
And he would go into these companies, and someof them he would go into would be laughing and
and joyful and and helping each other.
And most of them are really good, but everyonce in while, you'd see him be an employee
where everything was very strict on howeverything was done.
And it was it was quite interesting to seethat, you know, to see the difference on
(32:44):
employees themselves.
Yes.
And I want to mention about this issue is thatemotions, according to science, are contagious.
So this mean that when people start starttreating one another, positive emotion are
contagious and negative emotion are contagious.
So let's imagine that we have the boss comingto the workplace, and he's coming very angry
(33:08):
and shouting at employees.
I have seen this myself, shouting at employees,treating these employees in a very descriptive
way, in a very disparaging way.
And this employee that probably were before ina good mood, they absorbed.
They were infected by this anger, and theystarted experiencing negative emotion.
Let's compare the situation with a situationwhere the the boss come in a very good mood and
(33:34):
treat his employee as family.
How are you?
Some cases, the boss even give some hugs to theemployees.
I've seen this too.
So and this create a different workplace.
Why?
Because people tend to be more productive whenyou're when they're feeling positive emotion.
According to research studies, when people arefeeling positive emotion, they tend to be more
(33:56):
creative, more productive more productive, moremotivated.
So and they tend to be much more insightfulwith their ideas.
Instead, when people are infused negativeemotion and they start experiencing this
negative emotion, they're more prone to adoptwhat we mentioned before, this freeze, fight,
flight mode, the defensive mode.
I don't trust my boss, but don't trust mycolleagues.
(34:18):
I don't want to share resources.
I feel a bit, like, threatened.
I'm not sure I I will just try to act safe.
I don't want to act in a nontraditional way.
I try to keep this to the minimal, less work bythe book.
Yeah.
And I've heard I haven't looked at the numbersmyself, but I've heard that in companies where
(34:38):
they are more angry, I guess, more tense, tendto have a lot more injuries than the companies
where they're feeling they feel that they'reworthwhile, that they're valued.
It's possible because employees, when they feelthreatened by the emotions of others, they feel
(35:01):
infected by this negative emotion.
We have to admit that this employee, their thiscertain skill might be lessened, might be
temporarily impaired, and they might not bethinking very clearly their critical analysis
skills that are very important to make gooddecision to manage, for example, a risky
equipment in a same way could be impaired.
(35:25):
This this is skill.
So it's very important to take into accountthat positivity tend to bring about positivity
in the workplace.
Right.
They are the same, coupled with negativity.
Negativity, negative emotion, treating othersin a in an unkind way generate a negative cycle
of reciprocity.
When people start imagine that they see fromthe boss.
(35:46):
The the boss treating others in a negative way,in an unkind way.
This boss is a negative role model.
This is the model that we have.
Maybe we start emulating this model, but it'sthe wrong model.
So and this generate a lot of distress, a lotof lack of cooperation, and people are not
caring for one another.
(36:07):
What bring about negative result, and manypeople obviously are more prone to leave the
company or get ill or being absent or in somecase, become more stressed.
Yeah.
Or they bring it home.
And now all of that that they're they've beendealing with, they start putting on to their
family, and they don't realize how much thatthat stress is at home.
(36:32):
We had a family member actually who worked in avery high stress situation, and it was all
about getting to others first and and tryingto, you know, slide in under other companies
and and outbid them and things like this.
I mean, it was it was pretty, pretty shady andand whatnot.
(36:55):
And that family member didn't even realize thatthey were acting that way at home too.
Totally different personality.
And once they went to a different company, youknow, within a month, it was like a whole
different person.
And and when when someone had said to them, youknow, it's like, well, I can sure tell you're
(37:17):
working at a better place now.
They were like, why?
It's like, you're a whole different person.
And they didn't think that the company affectedthem.
They knew what it was like there, but they theywere trying to fight it the whole time.
But they didn't realize that it had stillaffected them and it affected their family.
This is so important because, you know, whatmany company do not even think about the
(37:40):
concept of work life balance.
Yeah.
Work life balance.
It's not only work.
We're human being before becoming employees.
These are family members.
They are they have friends.
They have call acquaintances and otherrelatives.
And when you do not bring about a warlikebalance, this tend to bring about negative
(38:02):
effect on, for example, family environment andother environment, and this simply tend to be a
bit resentful toward this company because theydon't have time to see their children well or
to care for their partner and so on.
Instead of what I observed that there are othercompany that are acting in much more
compassionate way, and what they do, in somecases, they offer this employee nursery
(38:25):
insight.
So this mean where the employee can take theirchildren, they can see at during midday or
during their break, they can see theirchildren.
This is paid by the company, and this employee,according to the assessment and the survey, is
more productive and more certified.
Why?
Because they take a problem off their mind.
(38:46):
Incentivist, employee provide they are providedby counseling services.
This mean that if they have any problem, anychallenge that could be unrelated to work, this
employee supported by professional that arededicated to this employee well-being.
Because they know that when employeesexperience this state of well-being tend to be
(39:08):
not only better outside work, but better atwork.
Because employee, you you separate thisdimension.
The the no more dimension, family, friends fromthe more dimension.
Everything is interconnected.
If the employee have some challenges at home,this will affect the work.
And many company don't understand this.
(39:28):
Employee do not leave their emotions when theyenter the company.
But I see many company that are notcompassionate that employees cannot talk about
their emotion because they feel the managerfeel that this emotion can be disruptive
disruptive of the workplace and so on, butemployees cannot get rid of their emotion.
They suppress or repress, and this will affectdirectly their performance, their creativity,
(39:55):
their effectiveness
Yeah.
Of course.
Yeah.
Definitely.
So tell us how can people get ahold of you tolearn more about about this, and where can they
get your book?
Okay.
Well, the book is titled The Art ofCompassionate Business, published by Rulich.
This can be found online, Amazon, or any otherwebsite, Barnes and Noble, but but also
(40:21):
physical bookstores worldwide.
So this is all worldwide.
And this is second edition that have more than450 pages and include hundreds of cases of
compassionate organization from differentsector, service manufacturing, big companies,
small company, nonprofit organization, and givea lot of examples of search research based
(40:46):
evidence on how to become more generous,grateful, and meaningful and human oriented in
business.
They can find me they can find me on LinkedIn.
They can type bruno cignacco with double c atthe end, and they can find me also on my
website, www.brunocignacco.com.
(41:07):
I spell brunocignacco.com.
Thank you very much.
Great.
Great.
Thank you so much for being here.
This has been very valuable.
And
Thank very much.
Audience for listening in today, and we'll seeyou next time on Wisdom on the Front Porch.
Thank you.
(41:30):
Thank you, my front porch friends andneighbors, for pulling up a chair with me and
my guest today on wisdom on the front porch.
Now if you've got value from this conversation,would you do me a favor?
Leave a quick review, then share it withsomeone you know who could use some
inspiration.
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Okay.
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(41:50):
Until then, keep the porch light on for newwisdom every time you show up.
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you on the porch.
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