April 29, 2025 • 31 mins
In this episode of Wisdom on the Front Porch, LS Kirkpatrick sits down with Shana Francesca to explore her inspiring journey from cult survivor to entrepreneur. They delve into the healing process and how trauma informed Shana's entrepreneurial endeavors. The conversation highlights ethics and personal growth in leadership, emphasizing the importance of cultivating successful leadership cultures through a thoughtful consulting approach. They discuss values, culture, and inclusivity in entrepreneurship, as well as the significance of embracing neurodiversity and unique leadership perspectives. Shana shares resources and insights on client engagement, concluding with her contact information for those interested in further connection.
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(00:05):
Welcome to another episode of Wisdom on theFront Porch.
And today, we have Shauna.
Is it Shauna?
That correct?
Shana.
Shana Francesca.
I am so glad she's here.
We've been talking about food and recipes, butwe're gonna talk about what she does, why she
does it, and how it can help you as anentrepreneur in your journey in life.
(00:27):
So tell us just a little bit about who you are.
Yeah.
So my name is Shana Francesca.
I was raised in a high control family and ahigh control religion.
So I'm a cult survivor.
And coming out of that, I decided that it wasreally important for me to learn for myself
about leadership and relationship, reallypredominantly like relationship.
(00:49):
And I didn't really anticipate doing what I donow, but it became really, really powerful for
me to be able to share what I understand aboutleadership and relationship with others.
And so I do public speaking and consulting andworkshop facilitation primarily.
Wow.
That's a lot.
(01:10):
You just packed into that little bit there.
Yeah.
Coming out of out of a high control area, wasthat difficult to break out of that?
Yeah.
Yeah?
It's the
thing about high control environments,religions, households, abusive households, you
know, those the same thing, is that thepsychological effects, right, of prolonged
(01:40):
violence or it's actually cyclical violencethat's actually more detrimental.
Being in those environments where you can'tanticipate when something's gonna turn violent
means that you're constantly policing yourself.
And then you start policing the people aroundyou so that their violence doesn't turn towards
them, right?
And so you start limiting yourself and peoplearound you, and that's all psychological
(02:02):
control.
And you don't realize how pervasive it is untilyou leave those environments and you start to
try to construct a life for yourself, and youstill find yourself policing yourself and the
people around you.
So there's a lot of healing that has to happenfrom the trauma, right?
We know that, We expect that.
But we don't think about the ways thatpsychological control has embedded in itself in
(02:26):
the way we show up too.
Right?
And so, it does take a long time and especiallybecause I left everyone, pretty much everyone I
ever knew and rebuilt a life and needed to healat the same time, it took me a long time.
It took me a decade before I really felt like,Oh, maybe this is actually who I am.
Maybe all that was just separating me from whoI am.
(02:48):
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, yes, it does take time.
And that's a good point to bring out is youthink that once you leave the situation, it's
all gonna be sunshine and roses.
Now it's gonna be good, but you still have allof that going inside your subconscious.
Yeah.
Been doing a lot of mind work and understandingthe subconscious and what's there, and it is
(03:14):
incredible how we talk to ourselves without usreally realizing what we're saying to
ourselves.
And once we recognize that, then we can changethat, and we can start changing our
subconscious that because it only believes whatwe tell it to believe or what we allow it to
(03:35):
believe.
Yeah.
And that sounds kind of like, what are youtalking about?
But coming from a situation like that, any kindof toxic relationship, you've got all that
stuff that's been put in there that whether youwillingly allowed it or not, it was allowed to
be in there.
(03:56):
And so now you have to take control of it, andit does take time.
And and there are there's layers that you haveto go through, but each one is better.
Each one releases you more.
And I'm so glad that you found out who youreally are and that you can build a career
around it.
Yeah.
That's wonderful.
(04:16):
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Thank you so much.
Yeah.
So so what is it that you do?
We know who you are kind of.
We know who you were, and we know that this iswhat spurred to you to do what you do, which is
your why.
But but what is it that you actually do as anentrepreneur?
Yeah.
So I do I consult.
(04:38):
Right?
I work with leaders.
When it comes to leadership, the way I look atit is that it is an is about creating an
ethical relationship with those we lead,whether that be directly one on one or it be
through culture and how we cultivate culture.
And for that to be realized, right, we have tobe deeply invested in relationship.
(04:59):
And I propose that all ethical relationshiprequires curiosity, respect, and
accountability.
And so whether I'm working with somebody in aconsulting role, whether I'm doing workshops,
whether I am delivering a keynote, I amconsistently touching back to that conversation
about how do we build relationship so that wecan be powerful leaders who are, you know,
(05:22):
empowering a diverse group of people to cometogether and innovate and create and drive
profitability and so on and so forth.
So really, at the root of it is we're alwaystalking about ethical relationship.
Right.
Right.
And that makes a lot of sense.
And entrepreneurs talk with a variety of peopleall the time, and and it changes as we progress
(05:47):
on, as we go on to other things, as we levelup.
Excuse me.
So so something has to be done to keep keepbuilding on those relationships, building
building it in a way that is beneficial forboth of us.
Yes.
Not not what can I get out of it and then go onto the next one?
(06:12):
Yeah.
Because that tint doesn't work.
But yeah.
Yeah.
And for What are your thoughts?
I think it was it was hard for me coming out ofthe environments that I grew up grew up in
because I looked at relationship always fromthe lens of I've got to give, give, give, give,
give.
Right?
I have to give until there's nothing left togive because that's what I was raised to do is
(06:34):
that I existed for the people in authority overme.
I existed for other people's use.
And we had to work through that and understandthat I needed to build a relationship, a
healthy relationship with myself.
The building of ethical relationships startswith ourselves, right?
Me being personally invested in curiosity aboutwho I am, what I believe, what I don't believe,
(06:58):
being willing to learn more and do better,being willing to challenge my preconceived
ideas, being willing to recognize that I havemore information now and I would do it
differently if I could going back, you know, indifferent moments in my life.
And so being invested in curiosity isnecessarily an investment in our vulnerability,
(07:19):
but also in our desire to learn and grow,right?
And then to check that with having respect forourselves, forming boundaries, right?
Knowing that there's meant to be reciprocity.
All life on earth exists because of overlappinginterdependent ecosystems.
All life.
And humans, we are nature.
(07:41):
Right?
And so we are meant to exist in ecosystems withthe world around us, whether that be human
relationships or that be the living world, soon and so forth, right?
And so when we ground ourselves in that, right,we have a different perspective.
We have more respect for ourselves in theliving world and more understanding of the
(08:02):
power we have as part of the ecosystems weexist within.
Right?
And so respect starts to anchor us in thisunderstanding of how powerful I am and how
powerful relationship is.
And I have to have healthy boundaries.
And those are for me, not for other people,right?
I'm not meant to force those on to otherpeople, but to have the confidence to be able
(08:23):
to walk away if somebody violates myboundaries, so on and so forth.
Or know that I can trust them to hold themaccountable, right?
Which is the other part of that.
The third part is the accountability.
And accountability and respect always tie backto curiosity, right?
So my thing is, it's first and foremost aboutunderstanding and investing in our
(08:46):
understanding of relationship with ourselvesand who we are and how we show up because
ultimately, we are the only thing we really canchange.
Right?
Right.
We we have influence over the living world.
Sure.
But as far as human relationships go, right, Ican't force anybody else to change and I
shouldn't try.
That's not ethical, right?
But what I can do is model that in my own life.
(09:09):
Then people see how that powerfully transformswho I am and how I show up as a person, as a
leader, as a business owner, right?
And then they start to want to mimic that intheir own lives and it becomes normalized and
it transforms society, right?
So we have a lot of power, right?
But we have to develop a a connection toethical relationship in order to tap into that.
(09:32):
Yeah.
And it's so true that people are watching usall the time.
Not like they're spying on us all the time.
We need to be paranoid.
That's not it at all.
But people observe.
They observe what we're doing.
They observe how we're behaving.
Are are we, if we say something, do we do whatwe say or, you know, or don't we?
(09:54):
And Yeah.
And and people do offer grace.
It's important to offer each other gracebecause things happen.
Yeah.
But we have to see where we are that that weare doing our best all the time.
And that doesn't mean, oh, I have to just dothis, and I have to do this.
(10:14):
Means we're just being us.
And being us means I just show up.
I show up the best way that I can all the time.
And if it doesn't coincide or it doesn't workout one day or with somebody or something, then
either look at it, find out what's not working.
Is there something I need to adjust about me,or is it maybe just not a good fit at this
(10:35):
time?
Or is this Am I just not at that place in myjourney or they're not in their place in their
journey right now?
Yeah.
Absolutely.
And like you said, as we learn more, we grow,we expand.
And then what what we're able to connect with,who we're able to connect with, possibilities,
they all grow, right?
We get stuck, right?
(10:56):
I think a function of being stuck is because wearen't growing.
We aren't educating ourselves.
We aren't connecting with a diverse array ofpeople.
That's, I think, what gets us stuck is that weare in a loop of the same things.
And the way to get out of that is to exposeourselves to new hobbies, new people, travel,
right?
There's all of these ways to remind us that theworld is so big, and we are just a very small
(11:23):
part of it.
And the more that we take in our connection tothe entire living world, the more that expands
what we thought or know to be possible.
Because we get to see how other people areliving their lives Right.
How other people are connecting to resources,how other people are growing their businesses,
so on and so forth, and it transforms how wesee the world.
Okay.
(11:43):
So so somebody comes to you, for your services,and, what is it that they're usually after?
What kind of end results are they looking for?
So most of the time, people are coming to mebecause they recognize that they there's
there's a shift required in their perspectiveas a leader or as an organization.
(12:07):
Right?
And a lot of times people will connect with mefirst for one of two reasons, as a speaker, to
like come in and deliver a keynote or todeliver workshops.
And workshops can, you know, typically then canmorph into consulting because that's kind of a
combination of workshops and like open officehours really.
Right.
(12:27):
And so having those like workshops and thenmore personal conversations with people kind of
one on one as they process and they workthrough what we engaged with.
But it's typically because we recognize thatleadership has been discussed in a very
specific way for a really long time and there'sa necessary shift.
(12:50):
There's a necessary shift that people areasking for, people are looking for, people are
requiring, right?
And we see that organizations in the past thathave pioneered the ways that I'm talking about
leadership, right?
Or like when you look at the first couple ofdecades of Pixar's culture, or you look at how
Campbell Soup was able, their last CEO was ableto transform that organization.
(13:14):
You look and see all these different leaderswho were invested in connecting with their
people and building relationships with theirpeople, in accountability, in honoring and
valuing people's descent.
Can you give us some examples of that?
Sure.
Yeah.
When you look at like Pixar's culture forinstance, I'm not sure I haven't kept up with
(13:36):
their current culture, but you know, for thefirst several decades of that organization,
they created a culture where people were likereally celebrated for letting people know like,
hey, this isn't working, right?
In the storyline, this isn't working.
Maybe this could work, right?
And typically people didn't take the suggestionfrom the person and just apply that, right?
(14:00):
But they recognized that the person saw aproblem and they were proposing a solution and
maybe that solution didn't actually fit withtheir particular, you know, or the project's
intentions, but it provided a necessarydifferent perspective on and and allowed a
problem to be brought forward and empowered aproblem to be brought forward.
Right?
And then they would have differentconversations, and people were really almost
(14:23):
required to play devil's advocate, right, whenit comes to stories and storylines and so on
and so forth.
And they created this really beautiful culturearound that, right, is that nothing's too
precious.
No one is there's no hierarchy in thatorganization that was going to stop great ideas
from being
brought Right?
(14:45):
And I think sometimes we look at, as leaders,we're taught like ours is the authority, ours
is the final voice, so on and so forth.
But we have to divest from that because youhave hired some incredibly talented people who
have a tremendous amount of expertise, right?
And it's really important for us to empowertheir voices and to empower people to
(15:10):
collaborate with one another.
And that's how innovation is spurred forward.
Innovation isn't spurred forward by one personconstantly dominating every decision, right?
And it's really important for us to trust ourpeople enough to see what happens, right?
And not every idea is going to be successful.
Mean even when you look up Pixar's differentstories and different movies that they've
(15:32):
created, they'll tell you that like sometimesthe original storyline, all the original, you
know, concepts, only one character or like oneactual line made it from the original script
into the final version.
There was a lot of failure along the way, butthe failure brought them to this success.
And so if we're afraid of failure and we punishour people for failure and we're committed to
(15:55):
efficiency, right, rather than to innovationand fostering relationship.
We will never experience the kind of successand our people will never be inspired to
innovate and create the kind of things thatcould really drive our fundamental
profitability.
That's interesting.
(16:15):
Using that as an example, throughout my life,I've seen where people have businesses have not
let their people speak up.
And a lot of times, it's when their businessneeded the help and their people have the
ideas.
Yeah.
And then it was like rats leaving a shinkingship.
(16:35):
Yep.
And there was no no reason to stay because youwere just a body there.
You weren't actually a functioning, humanthere.
Yes.
And then and the businesses where theyincorporated the people and, yes, we do want
your ideas.
No.
We're not gonna pick every idea.
Right.
But keep on giving the ideas because yours maybe the next one we use.
(16:58):
But they had that open communication and theability to, yeah, give us some ideas of what
you've got going on.
I think that's why I always like research anddevelop because you had new ideas coming on.
What can we do to make this better?
What can we do to make this more efficient?
What can we do just to make this easier for theconsumers to use?
(17:22):
And you are allowed to be creative.
Yep.
To be innovative, as you said.
And it's just such a better flow, such a betterenvironment, and the people are happy.
Yes.
And happy people happy people are definitelygoing to be more willing and desire to bring
their ideas forward.
(17:42):
Unhappy people are going to really just rootfor you to fail.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Or they're gonna go somewhere else.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And and you hire these people, because you needpeople to do the work.
But give them a voice.
If if they have something to say, don't, Ithink disciplining people for saying what's on
(18:08):
their mind when they're the ones doing the workactually hurts a company more than it helps a
company.
Absolutely.
And I tell leaders I think it's not reallyabout giving people a voice as much as it is
not taking their voice.
Oh, there you go.
Because they already have a voice.
They already have a thought process.
They already have ways that they want tocontribute.
(18:31):
If you haven't created successful lines ofcommunication and ways for people to bring
ideas forward, then you're taking their voice,and that has to be amended.
Right.
And and I'm thinking, you know, usually asentrepreneurs who have a few employees and
stuff are kind of figuring this out.
But what about the entrepreneur that's gettingstarted and maybe they're hiring a VA or you're
(18:55):
doing this or or that?
How does that fit in with even the beginnerbesides the seasoned entrepreneur?
Culture starts with one.
It starts with us.
So we have to practice that which we want todevelop inside of our organization even if your
organization only ever is just you.
Your culture is still gonna be felt by peoplewho approach your brand.
(19:15):
Right?
It's still going to leak out into the way thatyou connect with vendors and clients and so on
and so forth.
And so you are still developing a culture evenif you're only a single sole entrepreneur.
And I think it's really important that we stayanchored in that, that you sit down and you
think about what are your values as a person,what are your values as an organization?
(19:37):
Sometimes they're the same, sometimes they'redifferent depending on what you do, right?
Putting them down in writing, put those down.
And if you're not sure how to develop those,there's lots of organizations who have sat down
and developed their values.
Find those organizations that you admire, howthey show up in the marketplace.
And it doesn't have to be organizations thatare in your specific industry.
(20:01):
You want to look at organizations all acrossdifferent industries and see what's made them
successful, right, and how they connect withtheir people and how they develop relationships
with their people long term.
One culture that I really think is fascinatingis Gore and Associates in Delaware, and they
(20:21):
have this practice.
It's an ESOP, so it's employee owned, But theynever have any warehouse because they develop
different products for different industries.
They hold a lot of government contracts.
There's never more than 150 people in anyparticular warehouse or building, and they'll
(20:41):
build another building like a block away.
But there's never more than and there's areason for that because of like group
psychology and group dynamics and so on and soforth.
But there's lots of different organizationsthat do things in different ways and ways that
we're not even aware of because most peopledon't even understand the different structures
(21:02):
that, you know, like an ESOP can be, right?
The way that can operate, you know, so on andso forth.
So I think it's important for us to like, asbusiness owners, be doing research, be learning
about different business type structures, belearning about what other successful
organisations are doing, and find what weidentify with and how we would like to grow our
(21:27):
organisation and write down your values.
Because then you can hold yourself accountableto them and then other people know how they're
approaching you and what your values are.
Mine are public, mine are on my web website.
Right?
So that anybody who is coming to work with me,they know what I'm about.
They know what I am looking to foster inmyself, in my organization, and the
organizations I work with.
(21:49):
Oh, wonderful.
Wow.
I like that.
I was thinking about a company, you know, thatmaybe has several employees, and maybe they do
some type of manufacturing.
And they have everybody close together becauseit goes from one department to the next
department to the next department.
(22:10):
And if they built these different buildings, itwould not be as logistical flow with it.
So So it'd be good for them to look into thiscompany to see what this company does.
It has these different buildings.
There's only so many people in each one.
The buildings are not separated by department.
(22:33):
Each building is basically working on differentprojects, they function as their own company
essentially.
Oh, that is quite interesting.
Yeah, yeah.
It's absolutely worth looking at because Ithink it's a very interesting, it's a very
smart structure, it understands human anddynamics and group dynamics, honors that and
values that.
(22:54):
And I think it's fascinating.
I believe it was Francesca Gino.
She wrote the book Rebel Talent and she talksabout Gore and Associates.
I actually knew several people who workedthere.
But I didn't know much about the organizationuntil I read Francesca Gagino's book.
And then I started asking them about it andstarted doing more research and got more and
more fascinated with them.
(23:16):
Think it's an interesting structure justbecause it's so different than what we're used
to and it's so successful.
It's so successful and has been for a very longtime.
And that that's what's really important.
I mean, that's why we're doing these things.
We want to succeed at what we're doing.
We we have these visions of where we want ourcompanies to be, and sometimes we just need a
(23:37):
little guidance along the way.
It's like Yeah.
Well, this is what we're doing.
I don't know if this will work for you or not,but this is what we're doing.
And here's somebody else who's doing somethingtotally different.
It's like, how is that working for you?
How do you make it work?
So, yeah, definitely looking into othercompanies and what they're doing, other
(23:58):
businesses, other entrepreneurial businesses.
I've been surprised.
I was at one yesterday.
Huge, huge company that is started by someonewho started, you know, at the ground floor and
built it up into several several places.
And, yeah, I'm actually gonna call in to talkwith them and and see about their process.
(24:25):
But this is is interesting.
Yes.
You've opened up a lot of doors and windowsthat we didn't know existed perhaps, you know,
at least I did.
And so this is really great.
So you mentioned your website.
What is your website?
I'm sure you'll tag it in the show notes, butit's, www.consonate.world, and it's
(24:48):
c0ncinnate.world.
Oddly enough, consonate.com was taken, and Ithink it was taken by, like, a government an
organization that works mostly with governmentcontracts, and I was like, fascinating.
And so I just picked another, you know, anotherroute to go rather than the .com route.
(25:12):
Like I said, I have information about myself asa speaker, articles that I've written, podcasts
that I've been on like yours, little shortvideo clips, I have my speaker sheet, but then
I have other information, videos for people toaccess that talk about curiosity, respect and
accountability, how I view them and how theyshow up in my work, our our story of how I
(25:36):
found the name, you know, or chose the name forthe company, our values.
There's lots of information up there so that,you know, there's there's something for
everybody really to to take a look at andconnect with.
Wow.
That's fascinating.
Yeah.
I just there goes my mind again lookinglistening to all the different things you were
(25:59):
saying and and and going there.
Wow.
So so when someone approaches you, is itusually a business leader or a speaker?
Or what what Yeah.
Type of person comes to you, and they'rethey're looking like something's not quite
(26:22):
right.
So can you help us figure it out?
Is that it?
Yeah.
Well, it depends.
Right?
If somebody's coming to me as a speaker tospeak at their conference or at, a conference
that they're putting together or inside oftheir organisation, it's usually because they
know what people are interested in and lookingfor, right?
(26:46):
Conversations are happening inside of theorganisation?
What people are asking for?
What they need?
So people come to me and they're looking toempower people to build stronger relationships,
whether that be internally and or externally,know, build better client relationships, so on
and so forth.
And so they'll come to me specifically andwe'll have more conversation about
(27:09):
relationship.
I'm also neurodivergent.
I was diagnosed with ADHD at five.
And so one of my talk tracks is about the powerof creating an inclusive work environment and
how that drives profitability.
We know that it does.
The top Fortune 100 and Fortune 500 companyCFOs will tell you that diversity has as
(27:29):
investment in diversity has driven their bottomline up significantly in a way that if they
divest from those things, it would negativelyimpact their company and possibly force them to
close the doors.
Know, we know from Citibank's study in 2020that a lack of investment in diversity and
honoring a diverse workforce and cultivating adiverse culture has in fact cost The US economy
(27:55):
$16,000,000,000,000 and that was just in 2020.
Wow.
Right?
So we know there's hard financial numbersaround the lack of investment in diversity and
neurodiversity is just a part of understandingthe biodiversity that is the human existence
because again, biodiversity is necessary forall life on earth.
(28:17):
Humans would cease to exist if we all existedexactly the same.
One disease would wipe us all out in a fractionof a second, right?
Oh yes.
Right?
So neurodiversity is just necessary part ofbiodiversity.
So we have that conversation, so they're kindof looking to make sure that they're creating
an environment that is inclusive so that theyare being able to drive innovation and
(28:37):
profitability.
Or they're coming to me about leadership.
Know, again, people come to me for workshops ifthey want to kind of really be able for us to
drive that conversation more, to be moreinteractive.
If it's a conference, they're coming to me forspeaking.
And that's usually the gateway because I'mhaving a very unique conversation about
(28:58):
leadership with people.
I have never met anyone else who's talkingabout leadership the way that I am, not ever.
I've been told that over and over againliterally no one's talking about it the way you
are.
And perhaps it's because I grew up in a cult, Ihave a very unique perspective on leadership.
Usually that's kind of the gateway.
They hire me for a workshop or they see mespeak at a conference and then they're bringing
(29:23):
me in to kind of do more specific work insidethe organization long term.
Oh, that's awesome.
That's awesome.
So they go to your website to find you toconnect with you?
Yeah.
There's contact information.
There's my services are posted there, so on andso forth.
So there's lots of information for you.
Okay.
Let's have the website address again.
(29:45):
It's ww.com.
No.
It's not.
It's www.consonate.world.
And so that's c0ncinnate.world.
Okay.
Great.
Well, thank you so much for being here.
This was very interesting and enlightening.
Yeah.
Thanks so much for having me.
I really appreciate it.
(30:06):
Okay.
Well, we'll see you next time, and be sure tolook her up.
This is just very fascinating and help yourbusiness grow more.
I'll see you next time on wisdom on the frontporch.
Thank you for joining us today on wisdom on thefront porch with your host, Ellis Kirkpatrick.
You can find us on our website,wisdomonthefrontporch.com, see previous
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great insight into the world of entrepreneurculture and lifestyle.
Make today a great day.
Always believe that something wonderful isgoing to happen.
Welcome to another episode of Wisdom on theFront Porch.
And today, we have Shauna.
Is it Shauna?
That correct?
Shana.
Shana Francesca.
I am so glad she's here.
We've been talking about food and recipes, butwe're gonna talk about what she does, why she
does it, and how it can help you as anentrepreneur in your journey in life.
(00:27):
So tell us just a little bit about who you are.
Yeah.
So my name is Shana Francesca.
I was raised in a high control family and ahigh control religion.
So I'm a cult survivor.
And coming out of that, I decided that it wasreally important for me to learn for myself
about leadership and relationship, reallypredominantly like relationship.
(00:49):
And I didn't really anticipate doing what I donow, but it became really, really powerful for
me to be able to share what I understand aboutleadership and relationship with others.
And so I do public speaking and consulting andworkshop facilitation primarily.
Wow.
That's a lot.
(01:10):
You just packed into that little bit there.
Yeah.
Coming out of out of a high control area, wasthat difficult to break out of that?
Yeah.
Yeah?
It's the
thing about high control environments,religions, households, abusive households, you
know, those the same thing, is that thepsychological effects, right, of prolonged
(01:40):
violence or it's actually cyclical violencethat's actually more detrimental.
Being in those environments where you can'tanticipate when something's gonna turn violent
means that you're constantly policing yourself.
And then you start policing the people aroundyou so that their violence doesn't turn towards
them, right?
And so you start limiting yourself and peoplearound you, and that's all psychological
(02:02):
control.
And you don't realize how pervasive it is untilyou leave those environments and you start to
try to construct a life for yourself, and youstill find yourself policing yourself and the
people around you.
So there's a lot of healing that has to happenfrom the trauma, right?
We know that, We expect that.
But we don't think about the ways thatpsychological control has embedded in itself in
(02:26):
the way we show up too.
Right?
And so, it does take a long time and especiallybecause I left everyone, pretty much everyone I
ever knew and rebuilt a life and needed to healat the same time, it took me a long time.
It took me a decade before I really felt like,Oh, maybe this is actually who I am.
Maybe all that was just separating me from whoI am.
(02:48):
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, yes, it does take time.
And that's a good point to bring out is youthink that once you leave the situation, it's
all gonna be sunshine and roses.
Now it's gonna be good, but you still have allof that going inside your subconscious.
Yeah.
Been doing a lot of mind work and understandingthe subconscious and what's there, and it is
(03:14):
incredible how we talk to ourselves without usreally realizing what we're saying to
ourselves.
And once we recognize that, then we can changethat, and we can start changing our
subconscious that because it only believes whatwe tell it to believe or what we allow it to
(03:35):
believe.
Yeah.
And that sounds kind of like, what are youtalking about?
But coming from a situation like that, any kindof toxic relationship, you've got all that
stuff that's been put in there that whether youwillingly allowed it or not, it was allowed to
be in there.
(03:56):
And so now you have to take control of it, andit does take time.
And and there are there's layers that you haveto go through, but each one is better.
Each one releases you more.
And I'm so glad that you found out who youreally are and that you can build a career
around it.
Yeah.
That's wonderful.
(04:16):
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Thank you so much.
Yeah.
So so what is it that you do?
We know who you are kind of.
We know who you were, and we know that this iswhat spurred to you to do what you do, which is
your why.
But but what is it that you actually do as anentrepreneur?
Yeah.
So I do I consult.
(04:38):
Right?
I work with leaders.
When it comes to leadership, the way I look atit is that it is an is about creating an
ethical relationship with those we lead,whether that be directly one on one or it be
through culture and how we cultivate culture.
And for that to be realized, right, we have tobe deeply invested in relationship.
(04:59):
And I propose that all ethical relationshiprequires curiosity, respect, and
accountability.
And so whether I'm working with somebody in aconsulting role, whether I'm doing workshops,
whether I am delivering a keynote, I amconsistently touching back to that conversation
about how do we build relationship so that wecan be powerful leaders who are, you know,
(05:22):
empowering a diverse group of people to cometogether and innovate and create and drive
profitability and so on and so forth.
So really, at the root of it is we're alwaystalking about ethical relationship.
Right.
Right.
And that makes a lot of sense.
And entrepreneurs talk with a variety of peopleall the time, and and it changes as we progress
(05:47):
on, as we go on to other things, as we levelup.
Excuse me.
So so something has to be done to keep keepbuilding on those relationships, building
building it in a way that is beneficial forboth of us.
Yes.
Not not what can I get out of it and then go onto the next one?
(06:12):
Yeah.
Because that tint doesn't work.
But yeah.
Yeah.
And for What are your thoughts?
I think it was it was hard for me coming out ofthe environments that I grew up grew up in
because I looked at relationship always fromthe lens of I've got to give, give, give, give,
give.
Right?
I have to give until there's nothing left togive because that's what I was raised to do is
(06:34):
that I existed for the people in authority overme.
I existed for other people's use.
And we had to work through that and understandthat I needed to build a relationship, a
healthy relationship with myself.
The building of ethical relationships startswith ourselves, right?
Me being personally invested in curiosity aboutwho I am, what I believe, what I don't believe,
(06:58):
being willing to learn more and do better,being willing to challenge my preconceived
ideas, being willing to recognize that I havemore information now and I would do it
differently if I could going back, you know, indifferent moments in my life.
And so being invested in curiosity isnecessarily an investment in our vulnerability,
(07:19):
but also in our desire to learn and grow,right?
And then to check that with having respect forourselves, forming boundaries, right?
Knowing that there's meant to be reciprocity.
All life on earth exists because of overlappinginterdependent ecosystems.
All life.
And humans, we are nature.
(07:41):
Right?
And so we are meant to exist in ecosystems withthe world around us, whether that be human
relationships or that be the living world, soon and so forth, right?
And so when we ground ourselves in that, right,we have a different perspective.
We have more respect for ourselves in theliving world and more understanding of the
(08:02):
power we have as part of the ecosystems weexist within.
Right?
And so respect starts to anchor us in thisunderstanding of how powerful I am and how
powerful relationship is.
And I have to have healthy boundaries.
And those are for me, not for other people,right?
I'm not meant to force those on to otherpeople, but to have the confidence to be able
(08:23):
to walk away if somebody violates myboundaries, so on and so forth.
Or know that I can trust them to hold themaccountable, right?
Which is the other part of that.
The third part is the accountability.
And accountability and respect always tie backto curiosity, right?
So my thing is, it's first and foremost aboutunderstanding and investing in our
(08:46):
understanding of relationship with ourselvesand who we are and how we show up because
ultimately, we are the only thing we really canchange.
Right?
Right.
We we have influence over the living world.
Sure.
But as far as human relationships go, right, Ican't force anybody else to change and I
shouldn't try.
That's not ethical, right?
But what I can do is model that in my own life.
(09:09):
Then people see how that powerfully transformswho I am and how I show up as a person, as a
leader, as a business owner, right?
And then they start to want to mimic that intheir own lives and it becomes normalized and
it transforms society, right?
So we have a lot of power, right?
But we have to develop a a connection toethical relationship in order to tap into that.
(09:32):
Yeah.
And it's so true that people are watching usall the time.
Not like they're spying on us all the time.
We need to be paranoid.
That's not it at all.
But people observe.
They observe what we're doing.
They observe how we're behaving.
Are are we, if we say something, do we do whatwe say or, you know, or don't we?
(09:54):
And Yeah.
And and people do offer grace.
It's important to offer each other gracebecause things happen.
Yeah.
But we have to see where we are that that weare doing our best all the time.
And that doesn't mean, oh, I have to just dothis, and I have to do this.
(10:14):
Means we're just being us.
And being us means I just show up.
I show up the best way that I can all the time.
And if it doesn't coincide or it doesn't workout one day or with somebody or something, then
either look at it, find out what's not working.
Is there something I need to adjust about me,or is it maybe just not a good fit at this
(10:35):
time?
Or is this Am I just not at that place in myjourney or they're not in their place in their
journey right now?
Yeah.
Absolutely.
And like you said, as we learn more, we grow,we expand.
And then what what we're able to connect with,who we're able to connect with, possibilities,
they all grow, right?
We get stuck, right?
(10:56):
I think a function of being stuck is because wearen't growing.
We aren't educating ourselves.
We aren't connecting with a diverse array ofpeople.
That's, I think, what gets us stuck is that weare in a loop of the same things.
And the way to get out of that is to exposeourselves to new hobbies, new people, travel,
right?
There's all of these ways to remind us that theworld is so big, and we are just a very small
(11:23):
part of it.
And the more that we take in our connection tothe entire living world, the more that expands
what we thought or know to be possible.
Because we get to see how other people areliving their lives Right.
How other people are connecting to resources,how other people are growing their businesses,
so on and so forth, and it transforms how wesee the world.
Okay.
(11:43):
So so somebody comes to you, for your services,and, what is it that they're usually after?
What kind of end results are they looking for?
So most of the time, people are coming to mebecause they recognize that they there's
there's a shift required in their perspectiveas a leader or as an organization.
(12:07):
Right?
And a lot of times people will connect with mefirst for one of two reasons, as a speaker, to
like come in and deliver a keynote or todeliver workshops.
And workshops can, you know, typically then canmorph into consulting because that's kind of a
combination of workshops and like open officehours really.
Right.
(12:27):
And so having those like workshops and thenmore personal conversations with people kind of
one on one as they process and they workthrough what we engaged with.
But it's typically because we recognize thatleadership has been discussed in a very
specific way for a really long time and there'sa necessary shift.
(12:50):
There's a necessary shift that people areasking for, people are looking for, people are
requiring, right?
And we see that organizations in the past thathave pioneered the ways that I'm talking about
leadership, right?
Or like when you look at the first couple ofdecades of Pixar's culture, or you look at how
Campbell Soup was able, their last CEO was ableto transform that organization.
(13:14):
You look and see all these different leaderswho were invested in connecting with their
people and building relationships with theirpeople, in accountability, in honoring and
valuing people's descent.
Can you give us some examples of that?
Sure.
Yeah.
When you look at like Pixar's culture forinstance, I'm not sure I haven't kept up with
(13:36):
their current culture, but you know, for thefirst several decades of that organization,
they created a culture where people were likereally celebrated for letting people know like,
hey, this isn't working, right?
In the storyline, this isn't working.
Maybe this could work, right?
And typically people didn't take the suggestionfrom the person and just apply that, right?
(14:00):
But they recognized that the person saw aproblem and they were proposing a solution and
maybe that solution didn't actually fit withtheir particular, you know, or the project's
intentions, but it provided a necessarydifferent perspective on and and allowed a
problem to be brought forward and empowered aproblem to be brought forward.
Right?
And then they would have differentconversations, and people were really almost
(14:23):
required to play devil's advocate, right, whenit comes to stories and storylines and so on
and so forth.
And they created this really beautiful culturearound that, right, is that nothing's too
precious.
No one is there's no hierarchy in thatorganization that was going to stop great ideas
from being
brought Right?
(14:45):
And I think sometimes we look at, as leaders,we're taught like ours is the authority, ours
is the final voice, so on and so forth.
But we have to divest from that because youhave hired some incredibly talented people who
have a tremendous amount of expertise, right?
And it's really important for us to empowertheir voices and to empower people to
(15:10):
collaborate with one another.
And that's how innovation is spurred forward.
Innovation isn't spurred forward by one personconstantly dominating every decision, right?
And it's really important for us to trust ourpeople enough to see what happens, right?
And not every idea is going to be successful.
Mean even when you look up Pixar's differentstories and different movies that they've
(15:32):
created, they'll tell you that like sometimesthe original storyline, all the original, you
know, concepts, only one character or like oneactual line made it from the original script
into the final version.
There was a lot of failure along the way, butthe failure brought them to this success.
And so if we're afraid of failure and we punishour people for failure and we're committed to
(15:55):
efficiency, right, rather than to innovationand fostering relationship.
We will never experience the kind of successand our people will never be inspired to
innovate and create the kind of things thatcould really drive our fundamental
profitability.
That's interesting.
(16:15):
Using that as an example, throughout my life,I've seen where people have businesses have not
let their people speak up.
And a lot of times, it's when their businessneeded the help and their people have the
ideas.
Yeah.
And then it was like rats leaving a shinkingship.
(16:35):
Yep.
And there was no no reason to stay because youwere just a body there.
You weren't actually a functioning, humanthere.
Yes.
And then and the businesses where theyincorporated the people and, yes, we do want
your ideas.
No.
We're not gonna pick every idea.
Right.
But keep on giving the ideas because yours maybe the next one we use.
(16:58):
But they had that open communication and theability to, yeah, give us some ideas of what
you've got going on.
I think that's why I always like research anddevelop because you had new ideas coming on.
What can we do to make this better?
What can we do to make this more efficient?
What can we do just to make this easier for theconsumers to use?
(17:22):
And you are allowed to be creative.
Yep.
To be innovative, as you said.
And it's just such a better flow, such a betterenvironment, and the people are happy.
Yes.
And happy people happy people are definitelygoing to be more willing and desire to bring
their ideas forward.
(17:42):
Unhappy people are going to really just rootfor you to fail.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Or they're gonna go somewhere else.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And and you hire these people, because you needpeople to do the work.
But give them a voice.
If if they have something to say, don't, Ithink disciplining people for saying what's on
(18:08):
their mind when they're the ones doing the workactually hurts a company more than it helps a
company.
Absolutely.
And I tell leaders I think it's not reallyabout giving people a voice as much as it is
not taking their voice.
Oh, there you go.
Because they already have a voice.
They already have a thought process.
They already have ways that they want tocontribute.
(18:31):
If you haven't created successful lines ofcommunication and ways for people to bring
ideas forward, then you're taking their voice,and that has to be amended.
Right.
And and I'm thinking, you know, usually asentrepreneurs who have a few employees and
stuff are kind of figuring this out.
But what about the entrepreneur that's gettingstarted and maybe they're hiring a VA or you're
(18:55):
doing this or or that?
How does that fit in with even the beginnerbesides the seasoned entrepreneur?
Culture starts with one.
It starts with us.
So we have to practice that which we want todevelop inside of our organization even if your
organization only ever is just you.
Your culture is still gonna be felt by peoplewho approach your brand.
(19:15):
Right?
It's still going to leak out into the way thatyou connect with vendors and clients and so on
and so forth.
And so you are still developing a culture evenif you're only a single sole entrepreneur.
And I think it's really important that we stayanchored in that, that you sit down and you
think about what are your values as a person,what are your values as an organization?
(19:37):
Sometimes they're the same, sometimes they'redifferent depending on what you do, right?
Putting them down in writing, put those down.
And if you're not sure how to develop those,there's lots of organizations who have sat down
and developed their values.
Find those organizations that you admire, howthey show up in the marketplace.
And it doesn't have to be organizations thatare in your specific industry.
(20:01):
You want to look at organizations all acrossdifferent industries and see what's made them
successful, right, and how they connect withtheir people and how they develop relationships
with their people long term.
One culture that I really think is fascinatingis Gore and Associates in Delaware, and they
(20:21):
have this practice.
It's an ESOP, so it's employee owned, But theynever have any warehouse because they develop
different products for different industries.
They hold a lot of government contracts.
There's never more than 150 people in anyparticular warehouse or building, and they'll
(20:41):
build another building like a block away.
But there's never more than and there's areason for that because of like group
psychology and group dynamics and so on and soforth.
But there's lots of different organizationsthat do things in different ways and ways that
we're not even aware of because most peopledon't even understand the different structures
(21:02):
that, you know, like an ESOP can be, right?
The way that can operate, you know, so on andso forth.
So I think it's important for us to like, asbusiness owners, be doing research, be learning
about different business type structures, belearning about what other successful
organisations are doing, and find what weidentify with and how we would like to grow our
(21:27):
organisation and write down your values.
Because then you can hold yourself accountableto them and then other people know how they're
approaching you and what your values are.
Mine are public, mine are on my web website.
Right?
So that anybody who is coming to work with me,they know what I'm about.
They know what I am looking to foster inmyself, in my organization, and the
organizations I work with.
(21:49):
Oh, wonderful.
Wow.
I like that.
I was thinking about a company, you know, thatmaybe has several employees, and maybe they do
some type of manufacturing.
And they have everybody close together becauseit goes from one department to the next
department to the next department.
(22:10):
And if they built these different buildings, itwould not be as logistical flow with it.
So So it'd be good for them to look into thiscompany to see what this company does.
It has these different buildings.
There's only so many people in each one.
The buildings are not separated by department.
(22:33):
Each building is basically working on differentprojects, they function as their own company
essentially.
Oh, that is quite interesting.
Yeah, yeah.
It's absolutely worth looking at because Ithink it's a very interesting, it's a very
smart structure, it understands human anddynamics and group dynamics, honors that and
values that.
(22:54):
And I think it's fascinating.
I believe it was Francesca Gino.
She wrote the book Rebel Talent and she talksabout Gore and Associates.
I actually knew several people who workedthere.
But I didn't know much about the organizationuntil I read Francesca Gagino's book.
And then I started asking them about it andstarted doing more research and got more and
more fascinated with them.
(23:16):
Think it's an interesting structure justbecause it's so different than what we're used
to and it's so successful.
It's so successful and has been for a very longtime.
And that that's what's really important.
I mean, that's why we're doing these things.
We want to succeed at what we're doing.
We we have these visions of where we want ourcompanies to be, and sometimes we just need a
(23:37):
little guidance along the way.
It's like Yeah.
Well, this is what we're doing.
I don't know if this will work for you or not,but this is what we're doing.
And here's somebody else who's doing somethingtotally different.
It's like, how is that working for you?
How do you make it work?
So, yeah, definitely looking into othercompanies and what they're doing, other
(23:58):
businesses, other entrepreneurial businesses.
I've been surprised.
I was at one yesterday.
Huge, huge company that is started by someonewho started, you know, at the ground floor and
built it up into several several places.
And, yeah, I'm actually gonna call in to talkwith them and and see about their process.
(24:25):
But this is is interesting.
Yes.
You've opened up a lot of doors and windowsthat we didn't know existed perhaps, you know,
at least I did.
And so this is really great.
So you mentioned your website.
What is your website?
I'm sure you'll tag it in the show notes, butit's, www.consonate.world, and it's
(24:48):
c0ncinnate.world.
Oddly enough, consonate.com was taken, and Ithink it was taken by, like, a government an
organization that works mostly with governmentcontracts, and I was like, fascinating.
And so I just picked another, you know, anotherroute to go rather than the .com route.
(25:12):
Like I said, I have information about myself asa speaker, articles that I've written, podcasts
that I've been on like yours, little shortvideo clips, I have my speaker sheet, but then
I have other information, videos for people toaccess that talk about curiosity, respect and
accountability, how I view them and how theyshow up in my work, our our story of how I
(25:36):
found the name, you know, or chose the name forthe company, our values.
There's lots of information up there so that,you know, there's there's something for
everybody really to to take a look at andconnect with.
Wow.
That's fascinating.
Yeah.
I just there goes my mind again lookinglistening to all the different things you were
(25:59):
saying and and and going there.
Wow.
So so when someone approaches you, is itusually a business leader or a speaker?
Or what what Yeah.
Type of person comes to you, and they'rethey're looking like something's not quite
(26:22):
right.
So can you help us figure it out?
Is that it?
Yeah.
Well, it depends.
Right?
If somebody's coming to me as a speaker tospeak at their conference or at, a conference
that they're putting together or inside oftheir organisation, it's usually because they
know what people are interested in and lookingfor, right?
(26:46):
Conversations are happening inside of theorganisation?
What people are asking for?
What they need?
So people come to me and they're looking toempower people to build stronger relationships,
whether that be internally and or externally,know, build better client relationships, so on
and so forth.
And so they'll come to me specifically andwe'll have more conversation about
(27:09):
relationship.
I'm also neurodivergent.
I was diagnosed with ADHD at five.
And so one of my talk tracks is about the powerof creating an inclusive work environment and
how that drives profitability.
We know that it does.
The top Fortune 100 and Fortune 500 companyCFOs will tell you that diversity has as
(27:29):
investment in diversity has driven their bottomline up significantly in a way that if they
divest from those things, it would negativelyimpact their company and possibly force them to
close the doors.
Know, we know from Citibank's study in 2020that a lack of investment in diversity and
honoring a diverse workforce and cultivating adiverse culture has in fact cost The US economy
(27:55):
$16,000,000,000,000 and that was just in 2020.
Wow.
Right?
So we know there's hard financial numbersaround the lack of investment in diversity and
neurodiversity is just a part of understandingthe biodiversity that is the human existence
because again, biodiversity is necessary forall life on earth.
(28:17):
Humans would cease to exist if we all existedexactly the same.
One disease would wipe us all out in a fractionof a second, right?
Oh yes.
Right?
So neurodiversity is just necessary part ofbiodiversity.
So we have that conversation, so they're kindof looking to make sure that they're creating
an environment that is inclusive so that theyare being able to drive innovation and
(28:37):
profitability.
Or they're coming to me about leadership.
Know, again, people come to me for workshops ifthey want to kind of really be able for us to
drive that conversation more, to be moreinteractive.
If it's a conference, they're coming to me forspeaking.
And that's usually the gateway because I'mhaving a very unique conversation about
(28:58):
leadership with people.
I have never met anyone else who's talkingabout leadership the way that I am, not ever.
I've been told that over and over againliterally no one's talking about it the way you
are.
And perhaps it's because I grew up in a cult, Ihave a very unique perspective on leadership.
Usually that's kind of the gateway.
They hire me for a workshop or they see mespeak at a conference and then they're bringing
(29:23):
me in to kind of do more specific work insidethe organization long term.
Oh, that's awesome.
That's awesome.
So they go to your website to find you toconnect with you?
Yeah.
There's contact information.
There's my services are posted there, so on andso forth.
So there's lots of information for you.
Okay.
Let's have the website address again.
(29:45):
It's ww.com.
No.
It's not.
It's www.consonate.world.
And so that's c0ncinnate.world.
Okay.
Great.
Well, thank you so much for being here.
This was very interesting and enlightening.
Yeah.
Thanks so much for having me.
I really appreciate it.
(30:06):
Okay.
Well, we'll see you next time, and be sure tolook her up.
This is just very fascinating and help yourbusiness grow more.
I'll see you next time on wisdom on the frontporch.
Thank you for joining us today on wisdom on thefront porch with your host, Ellis Kirkpatrick.
You can find us on our website,wisdomonthefrontporch.com, see previous
(30:26):
episodes of the podcast, and view issues of themagazine.
Did you know you can submit questions, leavereviews, or suggest topics?
You can also tell us where your favorite Frontlocation is and what it means to you.
We hope you gain value and insight from today'sor previous talks.
We appreciate your support for us so we cancontinue to provide value and expertise to you
(30:48):
and others.
Subscribe to Wisdom on the Front Porch magazineand join in next week when we bring you another
great insight into the world of entrepreneurculture and lifestyle.
Make today a great day.
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