From Therapist To Shadow Witch: Healing Through Alchemy

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A winter squall hit the moment we sat down to record—perfect timing for a conversation about meeting the storm without losing yourself. We welcome Lacee Gengenbacher, a licensed mental health counselor turned shadow witch, to explore how shadow alchemy transforms fear, shame, and reactivity into clarity, choice, and real power. Together we unpack a grounded path from talk therapy to parts work, somatic intelligence, and sacred journeying—practices that turn “I don’t know” from a roadblock into a guide.

Lacee shares how Internal Family Systems helped her listen to protectors instead of battling them, and how curiosity plus love creates room for the shadow to reveal its gifts. We discuss the difference between ego advice and channeled guidance, what it means to be the “hollow bone,” and why triggers are invitations to alignment rather than proof of failure. A powerful story about her son on the basketball court shows compassion in action, while a raw account of neighbor conflict becomes a lesson in boundaries, cords, and redirecting energy back to source.

In this episode we explore:

• living the storm metaphor with intention

• moving from licensed counselor to shadow witch identity

• IFS parts work reframed as alchemy

• somatic cues as truth signals in the body

• journeywork as a container for the “I don’t know”

• triggers as invitations to alignment not shame

• cords, protection, and redirecting energy to source

• compassion in conflict and community dynamics

• shop as portal: tools, tarot, spell bar, and sessions

• practical ways to witness and release shadow

We also step inside Mountain Witch, Lacee’s Bozeman shop—a portal for practical magic. From tarot for direction to shadow alchemy sessions and a hands-on spell bar, the space is designed to help you slow down, hear your body, and anchor new beliefs with ritual. If “positive vibes only” has ever felt hollow, this conversation offers another way: receive the energy, learn its message, alchemize what’s heavy, and decide what stays. Subscribe now, share this with a friend who’s ready to meet their shadow, and leave a review telling us which part of you is asking to be seen next.

Visit https://www.mountainwitchmt.com/ for more information! 

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Welcome to Wisdom Rising, the podcast of
Moonrising Shamanic Institute.
Join shamanic Reikipractitioners Christine Renee
and Chantel Ochoa as we dancebetween worlds of shamanism,
mysticism, and energy healing.
Each week we illuminate yourpath to self-sourced wisdom and
attune you to the whispers ofwisdom rising from within.

(00:25):
Welcome back to Wisdom Rising.
I am your host, Christine Renee,and today we have a guest on
Lacey Ganggenbacher, who is ashadow witch.
So we talk about all thingsshadow and how to alchemize that
energy.
Really noticing her career pathhas shift from being a mental
health counselor and into thefull shadow witch and helping

(00:46):
her clients, opening hermountain witch shop, and really
recognizing how to alchemize theenergy within us and around us.
And so I hope you enjoy thisepisode.
We are gonna go right into alittle clip from today, and then
we are gonna dive into theepisode.
And if you are in Bozeman,Montana, I do highly recommend

(01:06):
that you check out her mountainwitch shop here in Bozeman,
Montana for all of your witchytools and needs.
And know that she is alsoavailable for one-on-one
sessions that are extremelydelightful.
I just love the way she workswith clients.
So with that, enjoy today'sepisode.

SPEAKER_01 (01:26):
This entire conversation that we've had
today is about expansion.
Right?
Yeah.
It's about noticing all of theenergies that keep us oppressed,
that keep us in those negativebeliefs that say, I'm too much,
I am not enough, I am too small,it will never happen.
You know, you know, you can evenjust feel the energetic
heaviness of that, right?

(01:46):
It is literally walking into thewinter squall and saying, What's
here?
Bring it on.
And then moving forward.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:57):
Welcome back to Wisdom Rising.
I'm your host, Christine Renee.
And today we have a specialguest.
I'm really excited to have LaceyGangenbacher on, who is a
licensed mental health counselorand a shadow witch.
And I'm really excited to haveher on.
She is not only one of our soulrising graduates, but she also

(02:20):
has a little witch shop in ourtown that I love to frequently
visit.
And so I'm really excited tohave you on because you have
such a such an energy.
And I just love how you haveshifted in your own shadows to
what you offer today.
And I can't wait to get intoyour story.
So welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_01 (02:42):
I am so honored to be here.
Um we uh we've got a wintersquall that joined us um for
this time together.
So it feels really exciting andmoving and and empowered to be
here.

SPEAKER_00 (03:00):
Like we I literally walked out to the parking lot to
walk her in, and the weather wasperfect.
There was no, there was barelyeven a breeze out.
And the moment we stepped intothe house, our phones went off.
That we have a winter squallwarning happening right now.
And um, I feel like it's very,it's very telling.

SPEAKER_01 (03:23):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I so what I know is thatin my own journey and in the
journey of the other beings thatI interact with daily, things
are moving and things areshifting.
And and um I'm excited that I'mmore at a stage in my life that
I get to say what that means forme.

(03:45):
Yeah.
And where I go and where I plugin and what it looks like,
right?
If it's gonna move, I get a say.

SPEAKER_00 (03:53):
Yeah, it's kind of like once you've kind of been in
the storm, you can kind ofunderstand how it moves and
where it wants to throw you.

SPEAKER_01 (04:04):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (04:05):
Right.
Yeah.
And and part of that therebecomes a space of going, where
am I allowing?
Where am I focusing?
Yeah, how am I shifting?
How am I letting the breeze blowthings out that no longer serve
me?
Yeah.
And where can I find solidground again?
Right?
Like there's a balance in thatmetaphor of the storm.

SPEAKER_01 (04:27):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think too, what's shiftingfor me and when I'm so excited
to like talk about myprogression as a practitioner
and and how I exist is that Ireally experience the storm a
little bit differently than Ihave before.
It's a storm, I know it's astorm.
Um, I know what I'm doingbecause I've been through so

(04:48):
many, I'm pretty good on myfeet.
Yes.
Um, so I it becomes a dance morethan it does being thrown
around.
Yeah.
Like, how do you feel the flow?
How do you listen to it?
How do you move with it?
How do you take the energy thatis present in your world and
direct it where you want to goinstead of where you don't want

(05:12):
to go?
Right?

SPEAKER_00 (05:13):
Or resistance.

SPEAKER_01 (05:14):
Yeah.
Right?

SPEAKER_00 (05:15):
Yeah, it almost um feels like a little bit like the
way the language you're usingfeels like a keto.
You know, I love that, right?
Like a keto is all aboutbringing the energy in and
utilizing it to move where youwant to direct it.
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (05:29):
Yeah.
And honestly, actually, I justum saw a really magical person
in our community um last Monday,and she gave me the most
beautiful metaphor.
You know, I in my growth, in mychange in my work, you know, I
can energetically feel that themore visible I am, the more
energies are sent my way.

(05:49):
Yes.
Whether they are, you know,loving, encouraging, supportive,
or ooh, you know, fear or ummaybe even hate.
Just, you know, again, the moreauthentic you are, the more
authentic you are.
Yes.
And you don't get to say whatother how other people react to
your authenticity, you know.
So this woman, and and for me,that feels like protections,

(06:12):
right?
And how do I feel somethingcoming in and what do I do with
it?
And I don't want it all toattach to me because it's not
all mine.
Yeah.
And so she helped me shift myprotections and my boundaries to
exactly what you're saying,right?
How do you feel that it's comingin and receive and let it go?

(06:35):
Yeah.
Right.
Not even a no, just a I honorthat what you're doing is what
you're doing, and I don't haveto take what isn't mine.

SPEAKER_00 (06:44):
Yeah.
It's like and in it, and that aketo always feels like a dance,
right?
Like, and I think there's abeautiful understanding of how
do we dance with the energy, howdo we dance with the shadow, how
do we dance with the darkness?
Yeah.
Because we all have it.
I think all of us.
I think that's what I think somuch of what humans in general

(07:06):
are waking up to of recognizinglike there is this shadow
aspect, and it's not somethingthat I need to turn away from
anymore.
You know, I think there's beenso many years and so many people
who have spent their lives of inavoidance and or in the fucking
thick of it.
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (07:28):
Almost reactively.
Yeah.
Right.
Almost like the all or nothing.
Yeah.
Right.
And I think part of my greatlike love of shadow and light
and the cycle is like, hey, itdoesn't have to be one or the
other.
And it doesn't have to be all ornothing.
How do you dance instead offight?
Right.
And I and I think there's beenreally good reasons why parts of

(07:51):
us had had have historically hadto be kind of cut off a source,
you know, suppressed, minimized,and have been oppressed, you
know, and there's been a lot ofreally important reasons why our
protectors have kept us out ofthat, right?
It just feels energetically likeit's time, it's space.

(08:14):
Yeah.
There is um energetically thingsbeing held that it is time to go
get those other parts, that deepwisdom, that deep magic, that
like the place where the powerlives, and bring it back into
the light and and into sourceand into us and use the power of

(08:38):
the message in it and alchemizethe parts that we're ready to
get rid of and use it to move usforward.

SPEAKER_00 (08:49):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I would love to know whatyour process was like and all
that.
Oh man, yeah.
I know you have a story, and Iwould love to hear what pieces
that you want to share as youreally moved.
And I witnessed this in myknowing of you, of really moving

(09:09):
from a counselor into fullyembracing the shadow witch as an
identity, as a person who hasspace to hold for others in that
in that identity.

SPEAKER_01 (09:22):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's it has been um grueling andvicious um and beautiful and
really full.
So I mean, I became a counselorum because I had so much trauma

(09:43):
to heal.
Yeah.
Right.
Like it literally was I'm eithergonna stay where I come from and
just be in these cycles forever,or I have to find different ways
to do this, right?
And I was also called to liketake care of my people at the
same time.
So I just needed more tools.

SPEAKER_00 (09:59):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (09:59):
Right.
So I became a counselor andlearned so much good
information.
I mean, just changed my lifeforever, right?
Gave me a foundation that Ididn't quite have before.
Yeah, right.
And so I've been doing that forlike 15 years.
And um, and before that I wasdoing it, I just wasn't didn't

(10:21):
have the title of counselor.
Um, but anyways, so and then Ibuilt a really beautiful
practice here.
I mean, like I was at like Ididn't have to market much, I
was full all the time.
I was in helping families whohad experienced a ton of trauma.
And I loved it and I was so goodat it.

(10:43):
And I like sought out the besttrainings, right?
Like Janina Fisher's and BesselVander Koelk and Bruce, like all
of the the leading traumatherapists and and seekers of
wisdom, like I have been to, youknow, the Dan Siegel, I just so
much, and it took me so far.
And then in 2015, this isprobably where the huge

(11:07):
shattering really happened.
This is this is the start of mythird eye opening.

SPEAKER_02 (11:11):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (11:12):
Um, in in a different way than it had been
before.
Um, my daughter was diagnosedwith cancer, and I was pregnant
with my son, and we had to likeuproot our lives and move to a
different place to likeliterally fight for my child's
life for a year.
It's literally the biggest workthat I do in my own is like
meditating back to moments tospend with her because holy

(11:35):
shit, she went through so much.
Yeah, like it's insane that thisbody has survived that storm.
Yeah.
And so in that breaking andopening, that's when like all of
the parts of who I was wasshattered.
And so, like, even who I waspretending to be got shattered,

(11:56):
right?
All the like, so when I cameback in, I couldn't just be a
therapist anymore.

SPEAKER_00 (12:02):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (12:02):
It wasn't working for me.

SPEAKER_00 (12:03):
There's certain times and spaces in your life
where you can't hold on to themask.
Like there's like it just can't,you can't uphold it.
Yeah, like if you're fallingapart, you and you are really in
a place where everything is iscrumbling around you, there's no
way to hold on to I couldn't.
Yeah, of course, right?

SPEAKER_01 (12:24):
It was the shattering of the mask, right?
Yeah, it was that coat quotefrom Mary Magdalene, yeah,
right?
It was the going down, and whenyou go down to source, not only
is everybody else's expectationsor or kind of requirements of
who I am shattered, like all ofmine are shattered too, right?

(12:47):
And so it uh it took me a longtime to heal.
My daughter's healthy andbeautiful and um finds her voice
more and more every day.
Um, and that's a nice way to sayit.
Gosh, she can be a butthead.
Um, she's calling on all myshadow parts to be attended.
And yes, our friend do do that.

(13:08):
Oh, yeah.
She's she's a and she's also themost loving, grounded being that
I've ever met on earth.
Um, so she's great.
And I had to find a differentway to be a healer and an
adventurer that was more true towho I was, because it it

(13:29):
counseling took me as far in myhealing journey as it could.
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (13:34):
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (13:35):
Um, and then I had to open different parts of
myself to fully understand allof it.
Because I have experienced somuch that I have probably what
people call diagnoses that arepretty treatment resistant,
right?
Like, I mean, addiction, I comefrom addictions, uh, you know, I
come from all kinds of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 (13:55):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (13:56):
So I've had to find different ways to access and
heal because I'm a punk rocker.
I don't take no, yes, or ananswer.
Yeah.
Right.
And so then I started justtrying to find alternative ways,
right?
Emotion focused therapy startedgetting me really connected to
the magic of emotions.
And it really helped me likeshall some of the too much

(14:20):
energy I've always had around myemotions and embrace it a little
bit more.
And and IFS helps with likeunderstanding parts and all
these different things.
Um, and then I started yourprogram.

SPEAKER_00 (14:33):
So before we get to my program, I just want to say
that IFS is internal familysystems.
And it is one of my favoritelittle golden nuggets that has
come out of recent therapyapproaches where you really
recognize the different parts ofyourself, the different
emotional energies of yourselfand love all of it.

SPEAKER_01 (14:56):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (14:56):
Like, did I capture that correctly?

SPEAKER_01 (14:58):
Beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 (14:58):
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (14:59):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, IFS work is like, let'sgive all parts of you a voice.
If we give all parts of you avoice to understand purpose and
intention with whatever energyis being called up, and we we
stop isolating it and shaming itand excluding it from the

(15:21):
conversation, right?
It allows you to access moreparts of you in all more areas
of your world.
Right.
So it's like you might have thisbig, gnarly part of you that's a
huge protector.
And then and when they come inand do these protections, it
kind of messes things up, youknow?

(15:41):
Yeah.
And so then if you like shame itand hate it and see it as this
ugly darkness, right, then it Imean, it it feels that and it
gets bigger and it festers.
And then it doesn't get to bepart of the conversation.
So if you're not listening toit, it makes itself part of the
conversation.

(16:02):
Right.
Right.
If you don't give me a voice,I'm gonna get louder and louder
and louder until I'm heard.
And sometimes I might burn thewhole house down to be heard.

SPEAKER_00 (16:10):
Right.
Yeah.

unknown (16:11):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (16:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think that's why, youknow, I've just, I just feel
like there's an energy, amomentum, whether it's and now
in the therapy world or in thespiritual world of like, we're
we're not using healing languageas much anymore.
It's more about aligning,accepting, embracing all of it.

(16:35):
Yeah.
Right.
And I think that's why I loveparts work so much.
Because, you know, we can talkto Chantel about parts work in
in the in the at the angle ofarchetypes, right?
Or we can do it for what where'sthe sadness?
Where's the grief?
Where's the joy?
Yeah.
And how can we feel multiplemotions at the same time?

(16:58):
Yeah.
Because I think there was for awhile, like, no, you can't
actually do that.
We're only in one energy at atime.
And I'm like, I don't thinkthat's true.
Right?
Like, and and so now it's kindof given a framework to say all
of your parts are who they are,and how can we actually let them
come to the surface, acknowledgethem, love on them, and embrace

(17:21):
them and and notice what wisdomthey have.

SPEAKER_01 (17:24):
Yes.
Right.
And I call that alchemy.
Oh, I love it.
Right.
Yeah.
That it to me is the alchemy.
If you think about alchemy,right?
You are you are using elementsto shift something from what it
is to something else.
Yeah.
To that process.
Right.
Through that.
And so it's like what you'retalking about is what being a

(17:48):
shadow witch is.
It is knowing and going to somany of my own shadow-rich parts
with and seeing them not withshame and guilt and hate and you
know, just all of those reallylow, heavy energies, but doing

(18:10):
it with love, yes, and curiosityand understanding and empathy.
It's taking that whatprecipitated that part of me to
do that thing, play that heavyrole.
Right.
And loving it so much, gettingthe message of like survival,

(18:33):
thrival becoming from it, andletting go of not only the pain
I feel, but maybe even the painI caused.
Yes, right.
Right.
Because I I have I have playedreally heavy roles in this cycle
and in last cycles.

(18:54):
Yeah.
And in, you know, in differentways.
And my people have played reallyheavy roles.

SPEAKER_00 (18:59):
Right.
And I think that's alsosomething that we don't bring
our attention to of like whatafflictions have I caused?
Right?
Like heavy.
Because one, for a lot ofpeople, it is so heavy to take
the full responsibility of allof your energy.
And how did I project?
And how did I hurt?
And how did I feel right?

(19:22):
Like, how do I behave otherpeople's energy, right?
And still am our in the thehabits or behaviors or patterns.

SPEAKER_01 (19:30):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (19:30):
And bringing awareness allows us to bring
what wasn't once in thesubconscious into the conscious.
Yeah.
Right.
And we have to do that work.
The deep magic.

SPEAKER_01 (19:40):
Oh, that's like deep magic.
That that's the stuff we came toget.
That's the information we came,that's part of the human
condition.
Yeah.
Is these big sensual emotionalexperiences, and it's all part
of it.
Yeah.
And so for me, shadow alchemy ishow do you love even the dark.
Dark parts so that they haveenough permission to come out

(20:03):
and be seen and felt and heard.
And how do you again decide whatstays and what goes?
Right.
And then what do you do movingforward?
Yeah.
With your energy, with yourpurpose, with your power, with
your frequency.
You know, it's it isintentionality, it's
empowerment, it is, you know,shedding all of the layers,

(20:27):
whether they're mine, whetherthey're archetypal, what you
know, right, wherever they comefrom, it's shedding them so that
you can take accountability andresponsibility and decide what
you do.

SPEAKER_00 (20:38):
Yes.
Yeah, I love it.
Okay.
So we moved through IFS.
Yeah.
You alchemized.

SPEAKER_01 (20:48):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 (20:49):
And alchemized.
And alchemized and alchemized.
Yeah.
And a little bit more.

SPEAKER_01 (20:53):
Yeah.
So I actually have a really coolexample of what I mean by like
loving your shadow parts.
I'd love to hear it.
Okay.
So, and part of how Itransitioned from counselor to
what I am now is again justknowing that there was more to
it, just having this call, thispoll, because things weren't

(21:14):
working the way I wanted themto.
It it it wasn't a flow, it was abattle.
And so part of that was doingsoul rising with you and Chantel
and Isabel.
And um, and one of the journeysthat we went to um was, I don't
remember what it was for, whatthe intention or what we were

(21:35):
doing, but it was like seeing Iwas standing in my journey and I
was seeing a dark forest, right?
With no light, but you couldstill see through, you know, so
maybe it was twilight orsomething.
And I just saw these largeshadow parts like moving through
it.
And I felt the fear of them,right?
That just like, oh my gosh, thefear of it.

(21:56):
And then was grounded by thetruth that I was being held
energetically by all of you andand greeted it with curiosity,
yeah, instead of fear.
Like I'm solid, I'm sturdy, I'mgonna understand this
differently.
And then it this like wispyblack, you know, shape with like

(22:19):
red eyes turned into this likegiant like shadow wolf, and like
started like leaning up againstme.
And then there were more ofthem.
And I in that moment when I whenI grounded through the fear into
the truth that all things arefor me, they became allies.

(22:43):
Oh, I love that.
Instead of something to fear,and because I gave them the
space to be truly seen withcuriosity and acceptance and
love, I could see their trueshape.
And they're these large wolvesthat just like then they all
kind of came like packed, likethey they they were like, I was
part of the pack, finally, youknow.
And that's like the perfectanalogy of going from the

(23:05):
partial truth of a counselorinto a shadow witch, right?
Yeah, and that energy within meof knowing that my shadow is an
ally for me, because of that, Ijust have so little judgment for
other shadows and so muchempathy and understanding that
when I'm with people, that thoseparts of themselves just kind of

(23:28):
naturally come to the surface,right?
And and people are just like,Well, I've never told a single
person that.
Yeah.
And I'm like, well, how does itfeel to be seen in this way?
Right.
Right.
The the the shadow which part isletting all parts of me gauge my
surroundings and inform what I'mdoing, and understanding that

(23:52):
all of the things thathistorically would be labeled
neurodivergence, ADHD, you know,these whatever words that we
tried to label that you know,um, expansion of the brain and
of the self and of ourinteractions with our senses,
because to me that's all thatreally is.
Like um, I understood thingsclearer.

(24:16):
Yeah.
And more intentionally.
And so that's what it is to be ashadow witch.
Listen to all parts of yourself,let them come up, slow it down
with like love, acceptance, andgrounding, and listen to what
it's trying to share with you.
Right.
And what you're ready to releaseor alchemize, whether it's

(24:36):
because you did it this cycle,you did it a past cycle, your
family maybe did it, maybe youwere part of like a collective
time and space and time that didit.
It's just about taking theheaviness and alchemizing it to
light.
And that's it.

SPEAKER_00 (24:52):
That's it.
Well, and I think the the keypart of what you said that
really stood out to me was likeapproaching it with curiosity
and love.
Right.
Like there's a bit of if you arenot available to witness, if
you're still in your fear state,yeah, it's really hard to see
with curiosity.

(25:13):
Right.
Right.
And so much of the journey work,this is what we're pulling from,
right?
Is is recognizing one we'recalling in the circle.
We're making a really solidsacred space to do this work.
Yep.
This isn't done willy-nilly,right?
So we've got we've got acontainer in which to do it.

(25:34):
And then it feels like you'reallowing to what needs to come
to the surface to come to thesurface.
We're not digging, we're notgoing into the forest with a
flashlight and forcing us tofind something.
No, that's not what's happening.
It's just recognizing what'salready there that's ready to be
witnessed.
Yes.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (25:52):
Yep.
Exactly.
Back to like dancing, right?
It doesn't have to hurt.
Right.
And if it's hurting, like why,why?
Right.
Like, let's listen to it.
Like, let's listen to, and it'salso, it's really like because
of that safe container, it'sallowing for a an alternative
perspective of what has alwaysbeen a certain thing, right?

(26:16):
That story that we tell, thatyou know, the the truths that we
attach ourselves to as peoplefrom like childhood um and even
just now about safety.
Like at some stage you have tobe solid enough to question
those.

SPEAKER_00 (26:37):
Right.
So and and being solid enough toquestion those, that leads to
the curiosity, it leads to theopenness that maybe there's
something else going on.
Maybe there's something, somewisdom in this that's available
to me.
Yeah.
Right.
And I think that's why havingspaces in which we can get

(26:58):
curious in is so vitallyimportant to our expansion, to
our consciousness awareness ofwho we truly are, isn't just the
things that we present ourselvesas.
Right.
Right.
There's so many layers that makeup Lacey, that make up
Christine.

(27:19):
Right.
And so when we can fullyrecognize that it's not just all
love and light.
Well, it it can't be.
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (27:29):
Like it it there, there is no way to differentiate
to like it it just it has to bebold.
That's part of this physicalrealm's truth.

SPEAKER_00 (27:45):
Yeah, yes.
And I think that has been such ashift that's been ongoing into
recognizing because we had thisera of like positive vibes only.
Right.
Keep it love and light.
And it's actually was reallytoxic, super toxic, right?
And so then it was like, okay,well, that's not it.

(28:06):
What is?
Yeah.
And I think that's where thesepieces are starting to come
forward.
And I think I felt that thewhole time doing journey work.
Yeah.
Because journey work allowswhat's in the subconscious to be
shown.
Yeah.
Right.
And so for a very long time now,I've been doing journey work.
That's like, where are thepieces in myself do I

(28:27):
self-sabotage?
Where are the pieces in myselfdo I call myself a victim?
Where in myself do I fill in theblank?
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (28:35):
And and journeying with you guys has been such a
huge shift on my own practice.
Because what I what I realizedfor a long time as a therapist
was that I took so muchresponsibility for other
people's journey and work.
And like, I have to get themhere, and we have to do this,

(28:57):
and I have to, you know, allthis, like really kind of like
God complex stuff.
Like, I don't have any right tosay what this person's life's
supposed to look like.
That's not mine at all, right?
Right.
And and and through journeywork, what I'm realizing is each
of us have the becoming energyin already inside us.

(29:22):
And it's all I have to do iscreate the right environment for
people to come into alignment.
Yes.
I literally just get to be anadventurer with people.
Yeah.
And a space holder and helppeople listen to their truth and
their knowledge.
It's quite incredible, actually,what's happening.

(29:48):
It's like, you know, when youlead somebody into a journey
with an intention ofunderstanding this different
shadow part of themselves, andand they go in and they see it,
feel it, know it, and understandit, listen to that shadow part
of themselves and come out.
Literally, you can feel theirbody realigning and healing in

(30:09):
front of you.
Yes.
And guess all.
And I didn't tell them shit.
Right.
Right.
My opinion wasn't present atall.
Yeah.
Right.
Now there, I'm not saying thatin those moments that there
aren't times when I maybe havereceived a message that could
help the perspective shift alittle bit.

(30:31):
Like there's definitely a truthto that, right?
Like that's kind of part of myclear, my Claire's helping me
understand a different energythat's being exchanged that
needs to be heard and understooddifferently.

SPEAKER_00 (30:44):
Right.
Well, and it kind of feels likewhen those messages come
through, they're coming through.
It's not Lacey's opinion.
Right.
Right.
Like there's a difference inthat.
And it's so hard to educatepeople who haven't experienced
it.
Yeah.
You know, like what's thedifference between here?

(31:05):
I'm going to tell you this iswhat you should be doing versus
this is what I'm getting,receiving from a higher source
that has nothing to do with me.
Yeah.
Right.
Like there's a huge differencebetween those two things because
one has ego in play.
One has this is what I think myopinion expects of you to do and
shift and change into.
Yeah.
And the other one has none ofthat.

(31:26):
Yeah.
The other one is like, this is Iam a clear vessel.

SPEAKER_01 (31:31):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (31:31):
I am the hollow bone and holding space.
That's the bone part, right?
The hollowness is that allowingwhatever wisdom needs to come
through to come through.
And sometimes you just need tobe the hollow bone, and the bone
is holding the space forwhatever to organically flow
through.
Right.
And then other times there ismessages.
There is, I need to place myhands here.

(31:53):
Are you comfortable with that?
Yeah.
Whatever it may be.
And it's like it's it'sfollowing some type of divine
intelligence, some type ofsource energy that's with us to
provide that space to allow thehighest outcome possible.
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (32:11):
Yeah.
And for me, I think a big waythat has helped me know the
difference is taking away myexpectation of what my truth in
that moment does.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, like I'm just gonna tellyou what I'm seeing.
I'm gonna tell you what I'mfeeling, what I'm hearing, and

(32:32):
I'm gonna put it out there andI'm gonna let you decide what
you know about it.
Yes.
Right.
Right.
And then not like not only whatyou know about it, but listen to
your body and and yourself andyour congruence to tell us what
we're gonna do with this.
Right.
And and really like I like I seethings and I just say it and I'm

(32:57):
like, I don't know if this isgonna make any sense to you, but
whatever message is coming in,this is how I know how to
explain it.
Yeah.
So it's it's a it's got anenergy to it, right?
So it for me, part of how Ithink I incorporate the
empowerment piece is like Idon't ever say to somebody, this
is the truth.

(33:18):
I say to somebody, this is thetruth, this is my truth right
now.
Please pay attention to how thatlands with you, right?
Take what resonates, leave whatdoesn't.
Yes, and notice what your bodydoes with this.
Yeah, right.
Like almost like helpingpeople's bodies be the pendulum.

SPEAKER_00 (33:34):
Exactly.
And I think that's something.
If I could teach that toeveryone, of going, where do you
feel that in your body and whatdoes it communicate with you?

SPEAKER_01 (33:43):
Is huge, which is somatic experiencing therapy.
Exactly.
Right?
Right.
We're just taking, and I thinkthe shadow witch of it part is
taking that somatic experiencingum intervention and really kind
of energetically amplifying itand holding it energetically so

(34:04):
that people feel safe tounderstand it while I'm
energetically holding the truthof it and even sharing what I
know about it to help themunderstand how that lives inside
them.
That's the shadow witch of it.
Like we're literally gonna slowdown and we're gonna feel the
energy of what's happening inyou.
Yeah.
And it stops being somethingthat you are pulled down the

(34:27):
river to, and it starts beingsomething that you decide in the
river where you're at.

SPEAKER_00 (34:32):
Yes.
Right.
And I think that is um the kid,that's so powerful to let people
know that they can observe wherethey're at when they're in it.

SPEAKER_02 (34:43):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (34:43):
Right.
And like where, and it's a it'shuge.
Like I'm sure you tell with yourclients.
There's you can tell whensomeone's, oh, I'm in my heart
about this versus wow, this isstuck in my belly or my, you
know, where is it in the bodyand how do they recognize what
emotion is attached to it?
Yeah.
Does it move?
Does it shift?

(35:03):
Does it change color?
Does it vibrate?
Like all of those questionsallows the participant to really
witness where they're at.

SPEAKER_01 (35:13):
Yeah.
And here's the cool thing all ofthose are still using like a so
those are great interventions.
And and for some people, thosedon't work.
You're gonna get every time.
I don't know.
Yeah, I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
That's when the journey becomespowerful, right?

(35:35):
That's when you say, okay, youdon't know, let's do a journey
and see what you do know.
Oh, I like let's go meet this Idon't know energy because it's a
protector.
Uh-huh.
It's a part of you.
So then you go into a journey,you get them into there, and you
say, Okay, the intention of thisis to go meet that I don't know
energy.

SPEAKER_00 (35:56):
Right.
Because there's a part that'sthe protector that is the I
don't know.

SPEAKER_01 (36:01):
And then when you're in that journey, you can do that
same intervention again, butit's sacred because you're in
there inside and not outside.
Yeah.
And then literally, what's socool is you take, because in the
in the therapy world, I'd hit Idon't know's all the time, and
I'd be like, Well, uh, what doyou do now?
Ask another question.

SPEAKER_00 (36:20):
No, right.
So ask another question.
He's it just locks them down andhe's like, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 (36:27):
So it's like you're you're in a standoff, and that's
also teenagers, right?
So it's like leading them in sothat they go in and collect
information and can bring itout, and then they know.
Yeah, and it clicks and theyunderstand it, and it becomes an
image to help them understandthe truth of it.

(36:47):
And it's honestly, I watchpeople heal themselves every
day.

SPEAKER_00 (36:54):
And isn't that such an honor?

SPEAKER_01 (36:55):
Every day.

SPEAKER_00 (36:56):
I love that work, every day.

SPEAKER_01 (36:58):
What a blessing.
And again, not heal, but justcome into congruence with
themselves, right?
Right.
Them come into their truth andbe grounded in all of that fear,
you know, rage, which is veryimportant.
And if you live there always,right, it's not yeah good for
you.
Right.

(37:19):
So it's like, it's just cool.
That's the that's the shadowitch part, right?
Loving shadow parts so much thatthey can surface, being grounded
in the truth that they there isnothing bad wrong about them,
that this is where the gold is.
So that I can hold the space sowe could go understand it.

SPEAKER_00 (37:37):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (37:37):
So we can get the message from it, so we can alcan
alchemize whatever pain orshadow or heaviness lives with
it and let it come back in.
Oh, such juicy work.
So juicy.
I feel it in my whole body.
Yeah.
As I say it even, you know, justthe just the privilege of it,

(37:58):
right?
It's like the it's like thestrength card in the Rider Wait,
right?
The strength card, she has thisbeautiful lion and it was once a
monster.
It was this big unknown beastthat she was scared of, or she
had to protect herself from orprotect the world from, or
whatever.
Well, the strength card is youlove that part of you so much

(38:21):
that it becomes part of you.
It becomes part of your love,your power, and then you have
access to your wisdom.
It's just so badass.
So badass.
And what a different way to liveversus being stuck in a pattern
that nothing will ever shift.

SPEAKER_00 (38:39):
Right.
Right.
And I think that's where thewaking up is happening, right?
People are done, people aretired of the patterns, people
are tired of the habits.
This is why self-help books andall of these things are are
selling, right?
People are like, how do Iactually just love my body more

(39:00):
instead of wanting to go get afacelift?

SPEAKER_01 (39:02):
Yeah.
You know, it's like, yeah, andthat's why everybody's so
rageful and I mean, yeah,really, like pissed off about
it.
We shouldn't be.
We have a lot of things to berageful about.
Yeah.
The issue is when we live theretoo long, you're not honoring
all parts of yourself, right?
Or all parts of the cycle or allparts of divine, right?
Like everything has its role.

(39:23):
And and and that's why I don'tlike I honor other people who
live in rage.
I get pleased if that's whereyou're called to be, I trust
that that's where you'resupposed to be.
Right.
You know, like, and I'm the kindof person that's like, I wonder
if there can be more.
Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 (39:41):
It's that curiosity once again.
I wonder, I wonder more.
I wonder if they want torecognize other parts of
themselves.
Yes, right.

SPEAKER_01 (39:51):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (39:52):
Because of how like maybe they're protecting their
inner softness.

SPEAKER_01 (39:56):
Yeah.
And here's the thing likesometimes we need that softness.
Much as we need the rage.
Right.
You know, it's it it if allyou're in is one emotion, you're
not real, you know, um, it'skind of limiting the potential.
Yes, right, right, right.
Anyways, yeah, it's pretty cool.
And and here's the other thinglike just thinking about the

(40:18):
storm that we're in right nowand and the conversation we're
having about shadow.
It this isn't like, you know,shadow work is not skipping down
the road always.
I mean, sometimes it can beskipping with your monsters.
Awesome.
Sometimes it's tumultuous andit's painful.
And um what it is, is it's goingthrough those moments, knowing

(40:42):
and claiming, not even knowing,just claiming, putting your
claws into the truth that it isall for me, right?
It is all, even this hard stuff,you know.
I I have like the coolestexample that I really want to
share.
Oh, yes, um, yeah.
Because so the last um week, um,my son has been having some

(41:05):
really heavy, challenging thingsat school.
And he's nine, almost 10.
And the last week, he wasinteracting with people in his
world in a way that was makingpeople laugh and getting him
attention, but it was kind ofbelittling the other person,

(41:26):
right?
That the exchange wasunbalanced, right?
He was lifting himself up bykind of somebody else feeling
bad.
Yeah.
And that's so against my core asa person.
And it's so normal for a fuckingnine-year-old.
Yeah, I'll just say, right.
You're learning, you know, andum, and so and it happened like

(41:48):
three different times this week.
And the goal for my husband andI was just love this boy enough,
this human enough that he canpay attention to the lesson of
what we're trying to teach himaround how you don't take from
people to make yourself better.

SPEAKER_02 (42:08):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (42:08):
But not like feel so shamed that he gets lost in it.
And that's been a really it'sit's looked ugly, you know.
The the by the third day, I gota call.
I'm like, oh my God, why is thisstill happening?
And like really easy could gointo like, what am I doing
wrong?
Oh my gosh, look what I've done.
And I just didn't.
I just honored it and I justheld it, and I just held him.

(42:30):
And I was like, just help himunderstand how hurting people
really does feel like shit tohim.
And then Saturday came and hewas playing a basketball game,
and the other team was likereally good, and they were it
was this heated basketball game,and the energy was intense, and
like there was some chippinessfrom side to side, and the

(42:51):
competition started gettingheavy.
And um, and my son's really goodat basketball.
And this kid on the other teamwas getting kind of frustrated
by being kind of shut down, andhe tackled one of the kids on
our on our, like grabbed himaround his legs and like tackled
him to the ground a little bit.
And the you could feel theenergy building, right?

(43:14):
And everybody's like, no, andthe crowd's all upset about
that.
And and then the game kept goingand it kept building, and and it
was like 26 to 24, and I don'tthink the other team ever loses
either because they were likenot doing well, yeah.
Yes, and um, and this same kidwho had tackled another kid, um

(43:35):
punched my son in the eye, puthim in the headlock, and threw
him to the ground.
Wow.
And of course, like I'm a littlelike street, so I stood up and
I'm like, you know, I got allbig and energetic, and you know,
and and people around me were,and the crowd was actually kind
of booing this kid, right?
This nine-year-old boy booinghim for getting his needs met in

(43:59):
this way, yeah, right, whichisn't okay.
We don't do that, right?
Right.
And this kid is just trying toget his needs met, right?
So the game can't, my son'scrying and like upset, but still
wanting to play.
And so the game ends and we loseby two.
And my son, as we're leaving, isstill kind of like worked up and

(44:20):
breathing hard.
And I was like, man, like thatwas a tough game.
And he was like, Yeah, thatreally hurt.
That really hurt when he didthat to me.
And he goes, and you know what,mom?
After the game, I went up to himand I said, Hey man, I get it.
Good game, I get it, man.

(44:40):
And he said, and he had tears inhis eyes, and I had tears in my
eyes, and we high-fived, and Ijust wanted him to know that
even though he wasn't honoringall parts of himself, that I was
still there with him.
That's amazing.
Because my son had just played abad guy all week and had felt

(45:02):
the energy of like hurtingpeople and not honoring all
parts of himself by trying toget his needs met.
My son went through that hellweek so that he could be the one
energetic protective factor.
Even that kid's coach wasfrustrated with him.

(45:24):
Yeah, right, right, like my songot to say, Hey, I'm here with
you with acceptance and love andunderstanding and strength,
right?

SPEAKER_00 (45:38):
And so this kid on the basketball team probably he
probably didn't get that fromanybody else.

SPEAKER_01 (45:43):
Nobody else, right, but my son, yeah, because he had
just bled the last week and knewhow hard it felt to play those
heavy fucking roles.
That's shadow work.
Go find the roles where eitheryou played the bad guy or
somebody else played the bad guyand alchemize the pain out of it

(46:08):
and find the truth of it.
My son got to show up forsomebody because he knew what it
was like to suffer.
Yeah, right, alchemize it,attend to it, stop sleeping,
stop numbing, right?
Right, it's not the real world,you know?

(46:29):
Yeah, it just was reallypowerful, and that is like the
perfect example of shadowalchemy, yeah, the gold from the
shadow, right?

SPEAKER_00 (46:40):
Yeah, yeah, and it's such a beautiful display of
recognizing all your parts, likethey're not, they're not all,
they're not all love and lineand ooey ooey yumminess.
Sometimes they're the hard, thehard parts, but even the hard
parts are important, right?

SPEAKER_01 (47:00):
Totally.
With my son, when we went andand we kind of were curious
about those moments where he hadplayed the bad guy, like it was
because he was feeling like hewasn't getting love or care,
that he didn't have autonomy, hedidn't have sovereignty, he
didn't have his needs met.
So he went to the place ofmeeting his needs in this heavy

(47:23):
way.
Like, listen, I don't I've I'vepersonally experienced a ton of
abuse in my life.
I I have been the victim manytimes.
I've also been the perpetratormany times.
So what I've done in my ownhealing journey is those moments
where I was victimized, like Idon't hold resentments or hate

(47:48):
for my, I understand that theyhad to play a heavy role.
Yeah, to for me to learn thatlesson.
Right.
So I forgive them because I knowthey're part of me and I am part
of them.

SPEAKER_00 (48:02):
Right.
And it goes back to there isn'ta separation.
That's right.
If there, if there really trulyisn't a separation, if
everyone's energies areenergies, how are our parts and
their parts meeting each other?
That's right.

SPEAKER_01 (48:19):
Because I am you and you are me.
So I cannot hate you withouthating me.

SPEAKER_00 (48:25):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (48:25):
Right.
I have, you know, I have done alot of forgiving of people that
have played heavy roles in mylife because I understand that
if they are soul and they aresource, like I believe they are.
Think about how heavy it is ontheir source that they had to
play that role.
Yes, right.

(48:47):
It's hard.
I've played the monster.
I know how I still play themonster.
Uh my work is catching thosemoments that I still play the
monster.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (48:58):
Yeah.
I feel like I really witnessedthat in my first marriage,
right?
Like, and after it was all saidand done, I left, I was doing
the healing work, like I foundmy path forward.
I go, he was my greatestteacher.
Yeah.
Right.
Like he loved me so hard that hewas able to put me through that

(49:21):
situation so I can learn how tobe who I am today.
That's right.
Like I signed up for that shit.

SPEAKER_01 (49:28):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (49:28):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (49:28):
It's also cord cutting, cord alchemy.
Yes.
Right.
When that connection to thatother entity, you decide what is
exchanged, right?
And actually, you guys helped meso much.
I remember I was having thehardest time understanding the
concept of cord cutting.
Yeah.

(49:49):
Because I think that if it'sthat big of a cord, then I wrote
it in and I don't want to severit.
I want to understand it.
But I have to cut the parts ofit that aren't need alchemized.
Yeah.
So it's like you guys taught methat wonderful visual of, well,
then take the cord out and plugit into something else.
Right.
Right.

(50:11):
If you can't give it lovebecause rightfully it's not
yours to give right now becauseyou are in rage or fear or hate
or whatever, then takedisconnect it from you and give
it to source or give it to theearth so that at least that
you're not feeding the darkness.
Right.
Right.
Like, and you're saying Idisconnect from the darkness and

(50:32):
I feed it to light.

SPEAKER_02 (50:33):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (50:34):
So that you're also not reinforcing the darkness.
Right.
Which is kind of back to likethe shadow witch part too.
Is like for the longest time,um, I was like casting energies
and spells.
Uh-huh.
And calling on some really badshit and doing some bad shit,

(50:55):
you know, like even just like,you know, driving down the road
and somebody cuts me off,motherfucker, you know, this,
this, this, this, you know, likeenergetically putting judgment
onto somebody else that I don'tmaybe they were hurrying home to
get to something that wasimportant.
And I just added more darknessonto their path, right?

(51:16):
Yeah.
Like again, realizing that ourthoughts are spells, and how do
you pay attention?
How do you starve the things youdon't want to have?
And how do you fuel the thingsyou do want?
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (51:32):
Um, which also is very and I love that example
because it goes to show likethis isn't about positive tox
toxicity, right?
Like it's it's very muchrecognizing I have a choice.
I have a choice in this moment.
And I think that's where onceagain we have to break out of

(51:52):
subconscious patterning where itused to just be natural.
You just yell at the cars nextto you.
You just went.
You just, yeah, you just do thething.
That's right.
Right?
It's reactive, reactive,exactly.
And it's not, and it you justplay that part and versus wait
timeout.
Yeah.
Why do I have why do I have thisreaction?
Yes.

(52:12):
What am I doing?
Yep.
What is my thought process here?
And if I say this, think this,cast this, yes, what does that
mean?
Right.
And so then you're thinking, andwhat's it plugging into you,
right?
Because it's reflective of us.
It comes from me.
Right.
If I'm frustrated at anothercar, I have to go, what are they

(52:35):
doing that frustrates my ownself?

SPEAKER_01 (52:38):
Yeah, that's it.
How is my external worldreflecting my internal world?
And what is this trigger tryingto tell me about how it's an
triggers are opportunity to comeinto alignment?
That's all they are.
Right.
There is a part of you that ismisaligned, that is in

(52:59):
reactivity.
How do you go get that part andbring it back into source so
that you are present andintentional every second?
What do I say?
You right?
It's triggers are literallyopportunities for wholeness.

SPEAKER_00 (53:14):
That's it.
And I love that refrain, right?
Because there's an activationhappening.
Yes.
And when we can get curiousabout that activation, then
there's space to make adifference, to space to make a
shift, space to realign.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (53:30):
And not maybe realign, not to make a
difference in the externalworld, more the internal world.
Right.
So that no matter what storm ishappening, I am solid.
Yeah.
No matter what, if I am in mytruth, it doesn't matter what my
external world is doing.
That's part of the plan.

(53:51):
Right.
Right.
Yeah.
Like again, I think aboutanother one of my great teachers
right now is um a neighbor to myshop and just has been sending
so much hate and yes, fear, justheaviness my way.
But through the work of likenoticing how that interacts with
me and it plugs into me, it hasshifted my boundaries and my

(54:14):
protectors in such substantialways that at this stage, I
really believe her to be a closeloved one of mine from past
lives that agreed to come andhelp me be strong within myself
to continue to walk the pathforward that I have.
Like, so now when I think ofher, I actually have love and

(54:36):
endearment and kindness.
And guess what?
Like, I don't know if she feelsthat, but I don't feel her her
the darkness anymore.

SPEAKER_00 (54:46):
And when just to kind of put this in perspective,
so Lacey has her wit shop in abuilding, and you have to walk
down this long hallway to get toit.
And in that hallway, you passother shop holders and you go
into Lacey's shop and it's it'sbeautiful.
It's I love the way not just theenergy, but the decor in there

(55:07):
just makes you feel held.
Yeah.
It's a portal.
It's a portal.
You enter into this energy, andlike, oh yeah, I could hang out
here for a while.
But in that corridor, there wasone of the other shop owners.
I don't really remember what shedid, but she's just been, she's
it almost kind of put thisenergetic um cobwebs in the way

(55:31):
to get to your shopenergetically.

SPEAKER_01 (55:34):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (55:34):
Right.
And and instead of turning itaround and and on the rebound
and of attack, it was, I'm justsending her love.
I'm just sending her love.
I'm just sending her love.

SPEAKER_01 (55:45):
Because I'd even have like other people come in,
like, do you want me to dosomething about this energy?
And I'm like, no, no, like, youknow, you don't have it, don't
do anything.
It is a witch shop after all.
It is a witch shop after all.
Like, no, no, no, please don't.
Like, this is something that Ineeded to like alchemize and and
be in with.

(56:06):
Because again, when you open awitch shop, so many parts of me
are being seen that have notbeen seen before in this truth.
To stand in front of a group ofpeople and say that you're a
witch and then feel theenergetic reaction of those
people, whether it's ooh, what'swhat?

(56:26):
Or um, or whatever it is, right?
Like as a witch, you feel all ofthat.
Right.
So, really, this person has beenteaching me how to stand strong
in my truth, no matter whathappens around me, and not only
block or deny their truth, butmake space for it because their

(56:50):
truth is just as important asmine is.
And back to the receive theenergy, understand it, accept
it, release it.
Yeah, it all has value andtruth.
And I decide what stays and whatgoes.
I love that.
And it's and honestly, like Ihave so much love for her.

(57:12):
Like this, this person isactually such a bad, she's such
a sturdy badass, like prettyawesome, actually.
And which is before I'd feel, Imean, like she was like locking
the door to my business.
Like when we say energetic, likeshe legit was like locking doors
on people, right?
Physically and like blocking thedoor, and you know, just doing

(57:33):
all this really intense stuffand passive aggressive, um,
really intense, right?
And so it's like there was atruth to it, but I would get so
activated by this energy.
Like it was it was insane.
It was like I was literallyfacing a tiger.

SPEAKER_00 (57:50):
Yeah.
Well, and it's it's interestingbecause I remember when this was
happening.
Yeah, right.
It's been happening for like thelast eight months.
And but there was a point whereyou're like, I need to find a
new space.
Yeah, yes.
And there was a point whereyou're like, no, I'm staying and
energetically gonna alchemizethis, and we're doing it.
We're staying, we're staying inthe space and we're gonna make

(58:13):
it work.

SPEAKER_01 (58:14):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (58:14):
And there was a shift in your energy as well in
that time of like, this is who Iam.
I don't care if people don'tlike me.
This is who I am.
And there was a liberation inyour energy that made it more
expansive.

SPEAKER_01 (58:29):
Right.
And that's what we're talkingabout.
Right.
This entire conversation thatwe've had today is about
expansion.
Right?
Yeah, it's about noticing all ofthe energies that keep us
oppressed, that keep us in thosenegative beliefs that say, I'm
too much, I am not enough, I amtoo small, it will never happen.
You know, you know, you can evenjust feel the energetic

(58:50):
heaviness of that, right?
It is literally walking into thewinter skall and saying, What's
here?
Bring it on, and then movingforward.
Yeah, it's so cool.

SPEAKER_00 (59:04):
Yes, so engine is so cool.
I love that.

SPEAKER_01 (59:07):
I love that.
It's so cool, it's fun.

SPEAKER_00 (59:09):
All right, Lacey.
I want you to let our listenersknow if they were going to
contact you to work with you, tobuy your goodies.
Yes, where would they go?
What would what would it how dothey how do they reach out to
you?

SPEAKER_01 (59:22):
Okay.
Um, so I am in Bozeman.
I am at um 19 North 10th Avenue,suite five.
Um, it's in like the Wendy's redtractor parking lot.
It's this awesome old building.
It's got so much energeticcharacter.

(59:43):
Um, and I'm there Tuesdaythrough Saturdays from noon to
five, right?
I'm always there at that time.
So you can come into the space,get your tools.
Like I have in the search for mehaving everything I need to feel
ground.
In my truth, I've curated allthose items to sell to everybody

(01:00:05):
else.
Right.
I've got a lot of people fromthe community that give me
magical tools.
I've got, you know, it's fedwith the magic of this valley,
which is insane.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:16):
And I've I've got to put in a hot, a hot advice here
of you go in that store, youcan't walk out with nothing.
Right.
Right?
Like there, like I love yourshop.
Yeah.
Because not only do I feel thelocal artist, like I'm a huge
advocate for buying local andyour store is absolutely full of

(01:00:40):
it.
Yeah.
Right.
So like I can go buy a jokestertea called Chill the Fuck Out
Tea that my friends findhilarious to a leather bound
journal that's artistry made andit's decent priced.
You know, like I really findthat the things that I find in
your shop are not, they'rereally affordable for what they

(01:01:01):
are.
Yeah.
Right.
And so it's like, I love thatyou can go in and you can find
something in your price range,you can put things together.
Like there, I love that I can goin and be like, this is my
budget.
Yeah.
I want to buy this gift for thisperson.
What would that look like?
Yeah.
And on the top of that, like ifyou are really working through
some shit, right?
Oh, you have this really amazingspell bar on top of it.

(01:01:24):
So it's like, okay, I want tobring an intention for this.
I want to hold this with me.
And you're putting in thesereally cool salts, stones and
flower petals or whatever it maybe to kind of energetically
craft your spell that you canhold with you.
Yeah.
And so I think it's there's justa space for everyone.
I really wanted you on the showbefore Christmas.

(01:01:46):
Yeah.
Because so many cool things.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:48):
You should come into the store.
Yeah.
Here's the other thing too aboutthat store is that like people
come in constantly and they'relike, what do I need to get to
this?
Or what, you know, what do yourecommend for this?
And it's such an experientialplace that I have people like
you walk into the store and weslow things down.

(01:02:10):
So your soul and intuition istelling you what you need.
And then I share what I knowabout that, and you're and
things just start clip togetherinto it's a magical experience.
It's magical.
Yeah.
This is my belief.
If intense emotion can causetraumatic neuropathways, so can

(01:02:30):
fucking the same type of energyand emotion do the same for new
perk pathways.
Right.
And that's what that space spaceis.
You know, it's really like whattools do you need in your world,
whether it's jewelry, candles,herbs, you know, tarot, oracle
decks, you know, all thesethings.
What do you need to harness thetruth of your power right now?

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:50):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:51):
So that you decide what the steps forward look
like.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:54):
And then are you, you're still offering sessions.
Oh yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Tell me a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:58):
Yeah.
Okay.
So um, so I do a cut, like theway I look at my practice now is
it's kind of like a continuum oflike, where are you at in your
journey with self and yourshadow and and how do we
intervene with it, right?
So I do do tarot work.
And for me, tarot is like whenpeople are like, I need some

(01:03:20):
information, I really want itdirected.
You know, um, I need help withthis direction.
We're gonna do tarot and we'regonna understand the messages
that are coming.
And we're gonna also then bringthose messages into your body so
that you know the truth of whatI'm saying or not saying, right?
So it's really like, let'sintroduce you to your body,

(01:03:42):
right?
And then, and then I also, andin that there's some shadow
alchemy that happens, right?
Because we attend to things,things come up, and we go get
them and we alchemize them,right?
And bring them back into source.
And then I do just like psychicconsultation and shadow alchemy,
right?
We're not pulling cards, it'slike you already know
something's there and we'regonna go get it.

(01:04:03):
Let's go get it, let's gounderstand it.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:05):
So it's already percolated to the surface.

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:07):
You recognize you have an idea that there's
something in your bodysomewhere, like you have a
little bit more direction, yeah.
You're like, I know, and so thenit's like, okay, we're just
gonna hold this container inspace for you to go in and get
stuff and bring it out.

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:20):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:20):
And and reintroduce and alchemize and come into
wholeness, right?
Um, and then we have the spellbar, which is it's so yummy.
Oh my god, it's like my favoritething.
So that's when you're like,okay, I've identified this
shadow part.
I know I'm I've listened to themessages of it, I understand
what it's trying to say.
It's time for me to shift,right?

(01:04:42):
You're at the crossroads andit's time for you to take that
path instead of this one, right?
And so the shadow or the spellbar, it's like you let that
energy be present in your bodyand come to life.
And then you let your intuitionchoose the herbs, the gemstone
sands, and the crystals.
And while you're doing that,like there's some channeling

(01:05:05):
that like messages are coming into help us understand this
frequency that you have presentin your body.
And sometimes that's from yourancestors, and sometimes it's
spirit guide led.
And you know, I mean, sometimesit's just soul speak, so that as
you are standing there with thisenergy that needs to be
alchemized, this new energystarts to surface.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:28):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:29):
And so you're kind of holding that old frequency
and the new frequency at thesame time, yeah.
Kind of really telling yourbrain and body these two things
are connected, right?
And then we just energeticallyand magically, because that's
just I when I when I talk aboutmy magic, it's kind of like
Reiki, you know, yeah, it's justenergy.

(01:05:50):
That's all it is.
And then so then we boost what'shappening inside you so that
your body feels this newfrequency.
The new neural pathway has beendeveloped and you pull a spell,
a mantra, a prayer from thatprocess that helps activate it
in your brain.

(01:06:11):
So you can switch to from thatnew that old limiting belief to
the new powerful belief, right?
It's therapy.
Yeah, only we're gonna do it inan hour instead of two years.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:25):
Yes, thank you.
I love that.
I love that.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:29):
And it works for for me and and and others at
Adventure in similar ways.
This isn't to say that therapyis not powerful and that it's
not important.
It is, and if that's how you getthere, get there that way.
Exactly.
For me, it I couldn't get therethe same way if I only did pop

(01:06:49):
therapy.
Exactly.
I just couldn't get there.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:52):
Yeah, I don't think it's for everyone, like that
that's that linear path.
I'm just not linear.
Exactly.
I'm divergent, right?
We've already established that.
I love it.
So are you doing any Zoom calls?

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:04):
Oh, yes, I do it all.
Okay, yeah, it's all right, it Ido it all because here's the
deal it's like let's create thatenergetic container so that you
can go in, figure out what youneed to do, and come out with
it.
I almost all of my sessions thatare like um sometimes it happens
in tarot, but there's not asmuch space.
But like the shadow alchemy,like we're gonna go in and

(01:07:26):
you're gonna do it like ajourney with me.
Yeah, yeah, and you're gonna getthat information and pull it out
and come back.
Yeah, right.
Like, so like peak, you know, itis big shifts because people are
doing it themselves.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:39):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:39):
Because it comes from within them instead of me
trying to tell them what they'resupposed to know.
Right.
Which I heard from a verypowerful psychic in the Bozeman
community.
I don't have to know it all.
I just get to know what I know.
I love it.
Yeah, yeah.
So yes.
Um, to find me, you can comeinto the shop, Mountain Witch in
Bozeman.

(01:07:59):
You can um email me atMountainwitch Mt at gmail.com.
You can go to um Mountain WitchMT Um online.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:08:12):
And so we're gonna put all of those contacts in the
show notes.
Um, those will be there for allof our listeners.
I have one um final question foryou.
Ooh, fun.
Do you think I am a shadowwitch?
I just trying to, I just like tohear you say it.

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:31):
Okay.
So what I realize happens oftenis that when I tell people I'm a
witch and they say, Oh, cool,that's your thing, and they're
working in shadow realms andthey start exposing themselves.
I'm like, inside.
Now I and then and I don't sayit out loud because people get
to say what what they are.
Right, right, right, right.
I'm like, okay, well, and you'rea witch.

(01:08:54):
So I would say I experience youas a witch.
I would say I experiencedChantelle as a witch.
I would say I experience GaborMate as a witch.
I would say Brene Brown is awitch.
Yeah.
Right.
So again, I am not labelinganybody else anything.

(01:09:20):
And there is an energy, afrequency, and a power to it,
right?
Right.
Even as you're we're talkingright now, I feel the power
rising in between.
Yeah, right.
It it's really what you say youare, you are.
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:34):
Yeah, I love it.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:36):
Thank you.
I'm like, I don't like tellingpeople what they are, but I I
mean I experienced nothing.
Yeah, I experience you as apowerful witch.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:45):
Well, thank you.
Yeah, I feel the same about you.
Yeah, yeah.
Totally.
And I'm so appreciative for youto come on and share your
stories.
And I just can't, I can'texpress enough how it's been an
honor to witness you in yourtransformation and your
alchemization and all of thethings.

(01:10:05):
So thank you so much for comingon.
Oh my god, to wisdom.
So thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:11):
I'm so grateful for all the things you do for us.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:16):
Thank you.
Thank you.
Well, until next time, thankseveryone for listening and uh
have a wonderful, amazing week.
And maybe this is a moment totune into what do you need in
your in your apocalypse and yourin your toolkit.

(01:10:37):
What do you need to feelsupported to identify the space
and areas in which your life areyou're ready to say yes to?
I'm ready to to witness thatshadow part and say yes, I can
love that part of me too.
Yeah, go get you some storms.
Yeah, there we go.
Lots of love, everyone.
Take care.

(01:10:57):
Thanks for tuning in to today'sshow, the Wisdom Rising Podcast
is sponsored by MoonrisingShamanic Institute.
If you enjoyed this episode, besure to subscribe to the show on
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(01:11:20):
Institute.com.
Once again, thanks for sharingspace with us today.
And until next time, may youawaken to the whispers of wisdom
rising from within.