Integration or Intensity: Shamanism Beyond Psychedelics

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Psychedelics and plant medicine have become increasingly intertwined with modern spiritual practices, but are these substances truly necessary for profound spiritual experiences? This question sits at the heart of our candid conversation about the relationship between Shamanism, plant medicine, and psychedelics.

The conversation delves into the long-term integration process of psychedelic experiences, contrasting it with conscious shamanic methods that engage both mind and spirit in real time. Using the metaphor of an escalator versus stairs, we emphasize that while both paths can lead to transformation, shamanic techniques—like breathwork and meditation—build inner strength without giving power away to external tools.

Along the way, we discuss:

• The relationship between psychedelics, plant medicine, and spirituality
• Questioning the necessity of substances for spiritual experiences
• Our unique perspectives and experiences with psychedelics
• the difference between plant medicine and psychedelics
• Risks of giving spiritual power away to substances
• The importance of integration after psychedelic experiences
• The stairs vs. escalator metaphor for spiritual growth
• The role of your subconscious mind in the use of psychedelics
• Empowerment through conscious Shamanic techniques
• And so much more!

The Moon Rising team brings diverse perspectives to this nuanced topic, challenging the assumption that psychedelics are necessary for spiritual growth.

Ready to expand and heal without the use of psychedelics? Our Soul Rising Shamanic Reiki program is now open for enrollment! Early Bird price ends August 31st.

Learn more about the course: https://moonrisinginstitute.com/soul-rising/

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
It's time to remember your divine purpose and
limitless potential.
Welcome to Wisdom Rising, theofficial podcast of Moon Rising
Shamanic Institute.
Join shamanic Reikipractitioners Christine Rene,
isabel Wells and Chantel Ochoaas we guide you on a journey of
radical self-discovery andspiritual guidance.

(00:26):
Each week, we'll dance throughthe realms of shamanism,
mysticism, energy, healing andpersonal development to
illuminate your path to truehealing and self-sourced wisdom
Through weekly inspiredconversations and interviews
with leading spiritual andshamanic practitioners.
We are here to help youacknowledge, reconcile and

(00:49):
balance your energy so that youcan awaken to the whispers of
wisdom rising from within.
Welcome back to another amazingepisode here on the Wisdom
Rising podcast.
In today's episode, we'rediving into shamanism, plant

(01:10):
medicine and psychedelics.
For many spiritual communities,spiritual growth and plant
medicine go hand in hand, andyou may also think that
psychedelics and shamanicjourney work go hand in hand,
but that's not always the case.
We each have a uniqueperspective on the use of plant
medicine and psychedelics forspiritual growth here at Moon
Rising and we teach our studentshow to shamanic journey without

(01:33):
needing to rely on them, and inthis conversation we dive into
why we talk about thedifferences between plant
medicine and psychedelics, theimportance of a ceremonial space
in which to use these medicines.
We talk about why anintegration period is so
important and why it's oftenskipped over.
We talk about the role of yoursubconscious mind when you're

(01:55):
using plant medicine andpsychedelics and how the healing
that you do on the subconsciouslevel may not carry over to the
conscious level.
We share our own experienceswith plant medicine where we
believe plant medicine can beuseful, why we advocate for a
different perspective when itcomes to psychedelics in
particular, and whether or notthese medicines are truly

(02:16):
necessary for journey work,profound meditations or
spiritual growth.
This is a really fantasticepisode.
All three of us myself,christine and Chantel are back
on the show to discuss ourdiffering opinions and how they
all converge.
This is a great example of howour team at Moon Rising can hold
our own ideas, our own energy,our own space, but we all come

(02:38):
back together to form thisreally beautiful, cohesive
understanding of shamanism andspiritual growth and are here to
help you find your own uniquepath.
And if you're ready to findyour own unique path, I am so
thrilled to announce that ourSoul Rising Shamanic Reiki
online program is now open forearly bird enrollment.

(02:59):
Soul Rising is a four-monthprogram designed to help you
unlock the healing power of yoursubconscious mind, as we'll
talk about in today's episode,while connecting you with your
personal team of spirit guides,teachers, power animals, spirit
animals and more.
You'll learn how to journeyinto non-ordinary reality using
shamanic techniques withouthaving to use plant medicine,

(03:22):
and invite in the healing powerof Reiki energy.
We'll also learn how to combinethese skills to form a healing
toolkit that will help yourelease past traumas, heal your
limiting beliefs, step into yourhighest self.
I absolutely love this programand I love hearing from our
students about how it haschanged their lives, from
healing intense grief that hadnot moved over four years to

(03:46):
finally feeling safe in theirworld and in their own body, to
being able to meditate andjourney and vividly experience
the spirit world when theythought they never would be able
to.
This course is trulytransformational.
So you can visitmoonrisinginstitutecom slash
soul rising to seea collectionof testimonials from our

(04:08):
absolutely incredible studentsand learn more about the program
.
You'll also hear a little bitmore about it at the end of
today's episode, but rememberthat early bird pricing ends at
the end of August.
So if you are interested inlearning how to understand the
three shamanic realms, how toconnect with your power, animal
spirit, guide and the elementsin nature in a really hands-on

(04:29):
way the theory and process ofshamanic journeying, the basics
of reiki sessions and get yourreiki one, attunement or
reattunement.
We'll learn about the chakras,shamanic techniques to alter
your subconscious patterns, howto heal traumas and release
limiting beliefs, how to connectwith and heal your inner child,
over 35 activating actions tobalance and heal your energy

(04:50):
field, and so much more.
If you are interested in any ofthis from the shamanism to the
chakras, to the personaldevelopment, to the spiritual
development, to the healing yoursubconscious and your past
traumas in your inner child, wewould love, love, love, to have
you in the class.
Spots are filling up fast and,like I said, early bird ends at
the end of August.

(05:10):
We do tailor the call scheduleto meet your availability.
So if that's your onehesitation, I don't know if I'll
be able to make the calls.
Don't worry about it, becausewe make sure that you can.
If you are interested but notquite sure, know that we have
the option to book a freediscovery call with us so we can
talk about where you're at onyour journey and if soul rising

(05:31):
is right for you.
The links for all of that willbe down below in the show notes.
And, of course, in the meantime, don't forget to subscribe and
share the podcast so that we canreach more amazing spiritual
individuals just like you.
And be sure to join us in ourMoon Rising Shamanic Mystics
Facebook group, a fantasticcommunity of over 4,500 amazing
individuals who are walking thispath just like you.

(05:52):
And if you want the videocompanion to today's episode, be
sure to head on over to ourYouTube channel.
But with all of that said, Ihope you enjoy today's episode.
Let's go to the show.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
So welcome, welcome everyone.
Welcome back to another Whispersof Wisdom.
Today's conversation I'm excitedto dive into because it's on
psychedelics and plant medicine,and I feel like this is a
conversation that is so neededbecause there's a lot of
differing perspectives and a lotof confusion when it comes to
plant medicine, work andshamanism and what we do here at

(06:36):
Moon Rising Shamanic Instituteand all of these places and
spaces.
And I think one of my mostexciting reasons why I want to
have this conversation isbecause Chantel, myself and
Isabel have very, very differentexperiences and perspectives
and I really love that, likenoticing how much, like I'm
excited for that, because onceagain, I I think this comes to a

(06:59):
place of we're not trying tocreate cookie cutters.
We're trying to get you tothink about what does this mean
for you and your life and thinkand dive in a little deeper.
And having differing opinionsdoesn't mean that you can't
honor, respect the people aroundyou, right?
So I really like having thesedynamic conversations with our

(07:22):
team here because it goes toshow that, yeah, you can hold
space, you can have difficultconversations, you can have
differing opinions andultimately, I think we all end
up in kind of very similarfoundational space of.
This is what we believe, thisis why we do what we do and this
is how we want to support ourcommunities and their growth and

(07:44):
expansion.

Speaker 1 (07:46):
Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (07:47):
All of it.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:51):
That's a start.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
I know it's going to kick us off.

Speaker 1 (07:54):
Well, I can.
I can kick us off, because Ithink part of why we're having
this conversation is there'soften this kind of myth around
shamanism that shamanism andplant medicine always go hand in
hand.
And there's this idea,especially when we start talking
about shamanic journeys forthose who are kind of just
coming into the shamaniccommunity that oh, in order to

(08:16):
do a journey, I have to havesome kind of psychedelic, some
kind of plant medicine Like thatis necessary for this kind of
spiritual growth and experience.
And right from the get-go, Ikind of just want to put that
myth to rest because if weactually go back to the original
shamanic cultures, the use ofplant medicine was actually a

(08:37):
minority.
There were only one or twotribes who were really regularly
using psychedelics in theirpractice as a foundational part
of their connection withshamanic techniques.
Obviously, it's kind of shiftedand changed and the prevalence
has shifted, especially as it'scome to the West.
But really, when we go back tothe roots of shamanism, it

(08:59):
really didn't have anything todo with plant medicine at the
start.
It was this idea that thataltered state of consciousness
that we're reaching when we gointo a journey or when we go
into a deep trance state.
We're doing that through thebeating of the drum, we're doing
that through dancing, we'redoing that through shaking,
we're doing that through staringat a fire.
We're doing it through thesetechniques where we are

(09:21):
connecting more deeply to natureso that our mind kind of gets
put to rest and our spirit cango do the journey without being
hindered by our mind.
And obviously that soundsreally similar to what happens
when we're using plant medicine.
But the emphasis in shamanictechniques was that we are doing
the work when we're conscious,when we're awake, when we're

(09:43):
aware, to clear out our limitingbeliefs, to clear out the gunk
that's in our mind, so that webecome a hollow bone, so that
when we go to journey, when wego listen to the drumbeat, stare
at the fire, do the thingswe're already clear.
It's not that I think a lot oftimes there's kind of this
assumption that we need theplant medicine to put our minds

(10:05):
and our egos to the side so thatour spirit can go and do what
it needs to do.
But in shamanism for the mostpart there's obviously some
exceptions, but for the mostpart the emphasis was on we need
to be doing the work when we'reawake, when we're conscious, in
our daily life to do that,clearing ourselves so that when
we journey we're already there,we don't need the plant medicine

(10:27):
to reach that state.
Anything to add to that, youguys, yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:30):
I feel, yeah, go ahead, Go ahead, Christine.
Well, I want to also clarifytoo on the difference between
like plant medicine the waywe're speaking about it now and
like psychedelics, right, Like Ifeel like in shamanism, you see
, all the time, plant medicinecan be the tea that you're
brewing out of nettles.
It can be the cacao that you'redrinking.

(10:51):
It can be like there's a lot ofdifferent kinds of plant
medicine and what we really wantto be focusing on today in this
conversation is where that,that intentional, purposeful use
comes into plant medicine.
That is, has a psychedelicpurpose, Right, and so there
cause, there I mean all plantscan be some type of medicine.

(11:12):
Right, there's so manydifferent kinds of medicine.
Like I was just in Yellowstoneand I it was like I'm going with
the purpose of intention ofhaving Buffalo medicine, like
getting in touch with the landto receive buffalo medicine and
be a part of Yellowstone.
Right, Like there's medicine inthat.
And what are we talking abouthere when we talk about plant

(11:34):
medicine and then its use as apsychedelic?

Speaker 3 (11:38):
Yeah, that's pretty much what I was going to say.
Is that, knowing the differencebetween the two, like as we both
started, we started burningPalo Santo, that is plant
medicine, right, when we'retalking about burning sage
smudging, when we're going outand we're seeking plant medicine
through our teas and all ofthat, that is plant medicine and
that's totally different thanwhat we're talking about, yeah,

(12:00):
with using psychedelics to havethat enlightenment or to get
into that trance state which wedon't need.
And we know that because we'reproof of that here at Soul
Rising, at Moon Rising, and thework that we do through our
shamanic practices is to be ableto journey and to, in our
conscious state of being, to setthat intention and to journey

(12:22):
where we need to go to receivethe messages that we are seeking
.
And also, with that is likebecause I know here I've spoke
about dreams and I'm also like,as you know, I work with people
who are really deep dreamers,who are they go do the work.
At the same time, it's like weneed to still be conscious, not

(12:43):
in our sleeping state, to alwaysgo to do the work, but to be
awake, to be aware, to knowwe're setting that intentions,
we are communing with our guides, with our higher self, with
source, to be able to receivethe messages that we need
without having some kind ofaltered state, whether it's
psychedelics.
It's even like when we're doingbreath work and all that that,

(13:04):
can you know, become a form oflike pulling us into that trance
state.
But does it mean that we'reenhancing our brain with it or
that we're switching our mind upby the force of some form of
medicine and plant?

Speaker 2 (13:21):
Yeah, absolutely I.
I feel like there's so muchconfusion or hype.
I think, really, it's becomemore and more and more
accessible, just like cannabisbecame more and more accessible.
And now, like you know, thestate of Oregon, like you can do
any kind of any kind ofpsychedelics and it's it's legal

(13:45):
right, like there's and there'sso many more studies on
psychedelics right, and sothere's a huge conversation that
we can have just onpsychedelics, but what we're
doing is like, in the version oflike, when is it appropriate
for shamanic work?
When are we coming at this fromnot a recreational standpoint

(14:07):
but an intentional plantmedicine standpoint, and I think
so.
Those are all the differentdynamics that I really want to
dive into, touch on, feel intoand get curious about during
this conversation.

Speaker 1 (14:22):
And you know, something that comes to mind for
me as soon as we start talkingabout plant medicine and
psychedelics and I think thatdifferentiation is so important
of understanding that inshamanism we connect with the
spirit of the plants and theanimals and all of it.
We connect with the spirits ofnature to do our healing work,
because they each have theirunique medicine, right, and so,

(14:43):
like you guys are saying, thoseteas giving the tree a hug,
right, that's all plant medicine, the Palo Santo you were
burning.
And then we have this aspect ofpsychedelics where it's
shifting our consciousness and Ithink for me, one of the
biggest mindset shifts that Isee when it comes to using
psychedelics or mind-alteringsubstances in your practice is

(15:09):
that a lot of times it comeswith this unintentional
subconscious giving away of yourpower.
It's like you look to the plant, you look to the medicine that
you're using as this kind ofembodied personification, which
is beautiful, right, becausethat's again that's a very
shamanic thing, like thinkingabout Mama Aya for those who do

(15:30):
ayahuasca, or the frog for thosewho do cambo, right, there's
this reverence for the substanceitself, which is very shamanic,
but what happens?
That kind of shifts us out of ashamanic lens and into a lens
that I find can be in certaincircumstances pretty detrimental
, is that we stop seeing it as apartner or a co-facilitator or

(15:51):
a colleague, in a way, like apartner on our healing path, on
our path to discovering moreabout ourselves in the world,
and we start to see it as thisthing that we need in order to
remove the parts of ourselves wedon't like and call back in the
parts of ourselves that we do.
And it's a really subtle shiftfrom how those substances would

(16:13):
have been used in a ceremonial,shamanic context, because, again
, we are having reverence forthe substance, we are having
reverence for nature.
But it was very much in thisunderstanding that we are just
as much a part of this cosmicweb, just as much a part of the
important work that's happening,as the substance that we're
using.
We're partners in that.
And I think today in the plantmedicine and psychedelic

(16:36):
community, I really see a lot ofthis feeling of you're kind of
giving away your power to thesubstance and feeling like you
need it.
In order to do the healing work, in order to journey, in order
to progress, you need thesubstance.
And anytime we talk aboutpsychedelics, I always think
about I was talking with one ofmy mentors a few years ago who

(16:57):
began his journey with LSD andmushrooms and like really
advanced hardcore psychedelicsall the time, and he said that
eventually it got to a pointwhere he was on a trip, on a
journey quote unquote not ashamanic journey, but a
psychedelic journey, and he haddeveloped a relationship with
his guides through doing this.
And at one point the guide puthim in a house in the middle of

(17:19):
this journey and was like youare using the drugs, you're
using the psychedelics to lookout the window.
When there's a door right here,you have to stop looking out
the window and you have to walkthrough the door.
And I think that that's such abeautiful metaphor because there
is so much that we can learnfrom those experiences.
There's so much that we canlearn from those altered states

(17:40):
of consciousness.
But the moment that we startrelying on those to do the work,
relying on those to achieve thealtered state, we have lost a
piece of ourselves because wedon't need them.
They're a tool, just likeeverything else that we do.
But the moment that we startgiving away our power to this
thing and saying that we can'tdo the work, we can't heal, we

(18:01):
can't progress, we can'twhatever, unless we have this
substance.
That bond of sacred reciprocityhas been broken, because now
the energy flow between you isunequal, and I find that that
can be really detrimental.

Speaker 3 (18:15):
Yeah, I also feel that not only can we be giving
our power away to the medicine,but we're also giving our power
away to the facilitator, whetherit's a shaman, it's a medicine
woman, man, whatever.
But people are giving theirpower away to the facilitator,
whether it's a shaman, it's amedicine woman, man, whatever.
But we give you know, peopleare giving their power away to
that, expecting them to beholding this really strong
sacred space for them andknowing that when, if you're in

(18:37):
a you know, doing ayahuasca ornot, if you're in a group
setting, where do you think allthat energy is going if that
shaman or the facilitator isn'tstrong in their own medicine to
be able to hold that space right?
There is that sharing of energythat's being released and if
we're just there open, crown,open, everything open that's

(18:59):
when entities can come in,attachments come in.
There's this sharing ofenergetic exchange that starts
to occur between the people thatare participating and they're
not able to really, in themoment, hold space for
themselves because they're under.
You know, they're under,they're feeling high, they're
traveling, they're journeying,whatever's going on.

(19:19):
And I think that a lot of timeswhen people leave, I don't feel
in the very beginning, becausewhen I've worked with a lot of
clients.
I find that some come forwardand they're like.
They're like shattered orthere's like a fragment that has
occurred because we're pushingthrough, we're not naturally
awakening to the gifts that areoccurring for us, we're forcing

(19:39):
us through the veil andsometimes the mind our physical
and our mind can't handle that.
It becomes too much and I'veeven seen people who have had
really deep corded attachmentsto the facilitator and it's like
unhealthy because that personbecomes powerful or overpowers

(20:01):
them in their thought processes,their decision making,
everything.
And then people tend to go.
It becomes like, yeah, likehanging out and smoking cannabis
.
It's like suddenly I need to godo ayahuasca every weekend.
It's like, no, that's not whatthis is made Traditionally.
There's like a rite of passagethat comes through.
There's a reason and purpose ofwhy people within shamanism and

(20:25):
tribes and everything, or youknow, in cultures that do plant
medicine, is because they are inthat rite of passage.
They're growing from oneversion of themselves to another
.
They're going to see throughthe veil, they're doing the
vision quest or whatever thattheir purpose is.
There is true intention.
It's not just like in societynow where it's like oh hey, do

(20:47):
you guys want to go do ayahuascathis weekend.
There is great preparation togo do that and then great
integration that follows andit's just, it's become I feel
it's too much.
I don't, I'm not against it atall.
I've had my fair share of plantmedicine, not ayahuasca per se,
but of my own.

(21:07):
But yeah, I just think thatsometimes it becomes too much in
society right now and theidentity like, oh, have you done
that?
Like it's a cool thing.
It's like, yeah, it just keepsleveling, oh, you haven't done
that, then you don't know.
And it's like I was listeningto someone the other day telling

(21:28):
me how she can take high, highdoses of shrooms and I'm like
and then I could do this and Ican do that, and I'm like I can
do that sober.
You know, it was like I journeyand can receive that same
experience.
And it wasn't anything againsther, but it was more like you
don't have to take four grams ofshrooms to get into that trance
state to go and journey andreceive the messages that you

(21:49):
meant to.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
Yeah, sometimes it feels like this is the little
easy shortcut and they now areusing it like a crutch Right,
and I think you're totally spoton.
There's a lot of um, there's alot of people out there just
transferring their power intothe facilitator and I I

(22:10):
definitely haven't haven't had alot of like personal
experiences with a lot ofdifferent kinds of plant
medicine and have a lot ofreverence, and it also is very,
incredibly important to me toknow who is the facilitator.
I have such a high standard forwho's offering this medicine,
what their background is Like.
I interview hardcore for anytype of and it's and it's very

(22:34):
intentional.
What's the purpose?
Why am I entering this, thisspace of having this psychedelic
experience, right Like I, and II saw myself um, you know
waiver in this, like so manypeople do like there's times
where it's been held reverently,intentionally months of

(22:58):
preparation, weeks ofpreparation, changing your diet,
coming to the medicine,standing in that place and then
getting and and having anamazing supportive experience
and then swinging the otherdirection on the pendulum where
it's like everyone's like thisis so cool, let's do LSD.
And go to the concert directionon the pendulum where it's like
everyone's like this is so cool, let's do LSD and go to the

(23:18):
concert and blah, blah, blah andgoing like.
Well, this is the thing.
Totally different intention nopreparation before or after.
Like you're, you're coming intothe space of like, all right,
the intention is to have somefun in the space of like.
All right, the intention is tohave some fun and the tension is
to have a mind alteringexperience for the concert or

(23:39):
whatever it will be.
And then going afterwards,going what, the what was that?
Never again, you know like.
I've had more experiences oflike, recognizing when the
experience experience wasn'theld reverently and just
recreationally.
Those are the experiences thatI'm like.

(24:00):
That wasn't worth it, thatwasn't what I wanted to
experience, that was too much.
That was.
I wasn't in the company ofpeople who were reverent.
They were in the, they were,they were playing around,
messing around, and becausethey're not energetically aware,
they don't know what the hellthey're doing and they're
they're not seeing theattachments that are flying in,

(24:22):
they're not seeing the, thenegativity that is possible of
attaining during that time andhow, what, how many cause.
We all have an integrationperiod where, whether or not
there is intention in the, inthe use, there's still an
integration period where yourbrain is malleable Right and so,

(24:44):
and then, and watching myselfgo wow, I was in this experience
for this many hours, whichmeant that there's this many
days or weeks of integrationperiod, and having to now take
all of that integration time,cleansing, healing from that
experience, and I think thatpeople just don't realize how
much integration our brains gothrough every time we do plant

(25:08):
medicine.
So, if this is something thatyou're doing every week, I'm
going to go do mushrooms andhang out with my friends.
I'm going to go do LSD and goto the concert.
I'm going to go do mushroomsand hang out with my friends.
I'm going to go do LSD and goto the concert.
I'm going to go right, likethis is the new.
Uh, well, I don't know how newit is, but it feels that way,
like this is the new, hip,popular thing to do.
And I think that there is, um,really an understanding that I

(25:33):
want to bring forward of like.
Really an understanding that Iwant to bring forward of like
how does it resonate with me?
What is the intention behindthis thing that I'm about to do?
How can I protect myself andkeep myself safe and give myself
the time of integration andpreparation, like all of that is
so incredibly needed when we doany kind of psychedelic work.

Speaker 1 (25:58):
The other aspect of that with the integration period
that I think gets lostsometimes is, let's say that
we're going on a shamanicjourney.
Right, we have our openingperiod, we're opening the circle
, we're calling the directions,we're doing our smudging, we're
making this really beautiful,solid, sacred space.
We do the journey.
It's maybe 15 minutes and thenwe come back and we have 30

(26:21):
minutes to an hour of journaling, of discussion of what did that
mean for you, of all thesethings.
Right, and one of the thingsthat really shifts for our
students is the way that I liketo explain it is what happens in
the journey does not matter.
It doesn't matter if all yousee is a bluebird or you hear a
cricket or you have an entiremovie showing up in your vision,

(26:43):
it doesn't matter.
What matters is when you comeback and you are then pulling it
apart and figuring out what didit mean for you?
What was the story, what's thelesson, what's the importance,
what's the detail when you canbring back what you received
from the spiritual realm andintegrate it into your physical
reality.
Right, and theoretically,that's the intention behind the

(27:06):
integration piece of when youwork with psychedelics or plant
medicine, but what I find isthat more often than not, the
integration becomes, like yousaid, this healing phase where
you've taken a bit of a hit,like your energy has taken a hit
from whatever you experiencedon your trip, on your journey,
whatever it was, and you have togo and integrate.
I can't tell you how many timeswe've had students who come to

(27:30):
shamanism from plant medicineand, before they know how to
journey, they'll come into classand they'll say you know, I did
ayahuasca this weekend, I didcambo, I did something and I had
this really huge trauma fromwhen I was three come up, and so
I'm just in this deepintegration process.
Or I ended up having a panicattack when I came back because
there was just so much that Ididn't realize.

(27:51):
Right, like these moments oflike.
I came back and wow, now I haveall of this stuff.
And so integration becomes thisperiod of almost like calming
yourself down so that you canstep back into the medicine.
And from my perspective andobviously everyone has their own
opinion everyone is completelyentitled to their own experience
, their own path, their ownjourney, all of it right.

(28:12):
But from my perspective, havingwatched students go through the
healing journey using plantmedicine and go through the
healing journey using shamanicjourneys and not plant medicine.
What I find is that there is somuch more pain and upheaval and
purging and wounding thathappens in the plant medicine

(28:33):
field.
And the reason that I say thatis because, again, when we go to
journey, our conscious mind isstill present.
It's not calling the shots,right.
Our goal is to be that hollowbone so that we can put our mind
to the side and recognize whenwe're in journey.
Is this coming from myself oris this coming from spirit?
That's really the intention.
That's the reason that we clearourselves out.

(28:56):
But when we go and do especiallyreally hardcore psychedelics
right, what happens is ourconscious mind turns off.
It's not that it's present, butjust in the back seat it's gone
.
Our conscious mind is gone, ourconscious filter is gone and
our subconscious is blown openwide right.
And that's part of why peoplelove psychedelics, because it
opens up your subconsciousnetworks for healing.

(29:18):
But the problem is that whenyou go into a psychedelic
journey and your subconsciousmind is blown open and you're
pulling up the traumas or thelimiting beliefs or the wounds
or whatever it is that are readyto be purged and let go of and
healed when you come back fromthat and your conscious mind
comes online.
Your conscious mind didn't doany of the work in that journey

(29:38):
with you.
Your conscious mind essentiallywent to sleep and woke up with
a new memory of trauma, of pain,of wounding, of a limiting
belief, of a difficult energy,of the heaviness of the purging.
Even if you didn't come backaware of trauma, it now has the
memory of all of the purgingthat you did on that trip.
Right, and now your consciousmind, your conscious filter, are

(29:59):
back online and are stuck withit.
Because again, that integrationperiod then becomes holy shit.
I need to calm myself down andwe can put it in a beautiful
light.
Right, we can say that, oh, mybody did so much purging, my
energy shifted so much, mysubconscious cleared out a lot,
and that can absolutely be true.
But it doesn't change the factthat you as a conscious human,

(30:21):
once you're awake again, are nowstuck with all of that.
And if you don't have the tools,if you don't have the
facilitators, if you don't havethe mentors, if you don't have
the ability to do shamanicjourney or the coaching
techniques or whatever you needEMDR, whatever it is for you if
you don't have the tools thatare then going to be able to

(30:42):
help your conscious mind, yourfull self process, understand,
integrate, release and healthrough everything that came up.
Now you're just sitting with itand it can feel liberating
because now you have so muchmore self-awareness, right.
But at the end of the day, whatI find is that it often, in the
long term, feels heavierbecause it's come from your

(31:04):
subconscious, where your brainwas doing a really beautiful job
of keeping it protected, andit's now just in the light and
on the surface and you've got towalk with that until you find
the tools that help you actuallydo the processing.
And often that's when studentscome and find us and find
shamanism and classes like SoulRising Right.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
It's because as things kind of trickle because
it's a trickle when you learnhow to shamanic journey what is
ready to be healed will come tothe surface.
It's not that we're digging forthings.
It's going to percolate forwardas you are ready to heal it,
and I think that is the biggestdifference.

Speaker 3 (31:42):
And then, and I think too with it, is that there
isn't that integration periodfollowing plant medicine
ceremony.
You know there's a period withyou know, maybe the following
hour or whatever, but I don'tknow.
I don't feel like there's likethis ongoing support system to
for those who go and partake,right, and if so, it's well,
you're going to come back and doanother round of it.

(32:04):
It's not.
We're going to sit into thisintegration period and then have
some form of coaching orcounseling or here's the
techniques to move through it.
It's going to be more of.
You're going to come back andkeep redoing the plant medicine
and that just keeps reopening itand it is going on some level
searching for those old scars,right, what is that needs to

(32:25):
come up?
Because whatever is ready tocome up does surface.
That's the shadow work of theplant medicine.
Is what are we suppressing?
That's ready to come to thesurface.
But, like you're talking aboutIsabel, if you're not there
consciously to process thosethings and be aware of what's
coming up, and then suddenly youcome out of this experience and

(32:46):
now what was in the past is nowin your present, you're like
whoa, wait a minute, what justhappened here?
And that happens for a lot ofpeople, and then that is when
they end up in our spaces, right, and I tell people, it's not a
surprise to me that you show upin a Reiki room and a Reiki
masters, you know healing space,because they are seeking what

(33:06):
has not worked for them and thenthey're like, okay.
And on the other point is beingsure that you know where the
plant medicine is coming fromand you know, like a lot of
people who are doing LSD and allthat the not medicine, but
drugs that are happening now,whatever you're taking plant
medicine, whatever you're taking, it's not the same as it used
to be.

(33:26):
There's a lot of syntheticthings that are being put into
this and there's a lot offentanyl and different stuff,
right, so people are reallytruly trusting in what's coming
forward.
And if they're not doing theresearch on the facilitator's
background, where are theycoming from?
Because there's a lot of peoplethat are self-identified as
shamans, right, and really evenshamans don't identify

(33:50):
themselves as shamans.
They're called the shamans bytheir people, not by themselves.
And so even here we haveshamanic techniques, but none of
us really are saying, hey,we're shamans until we have gone
to the jungle and we have beenlabeled and, you know, have gone
through that rite of passagefor it.
It you know me, I practiceshamanic practices.

(34:10):
However, I have the shamanheart, like I know that you know
, like that resonates with me.
But I don't claim myself asthat, but as a facilitator, I've
gone through trainings upontrainings and to be able to hold
space for people that arecoming forward to do the
shamanic work, to do thejourneys to go through and to

(34:31):
see through the veil forthemselves, to guide them and to
have the practice that followsthe integration process of it,
to come in and to have more.
Because, even if you're lookingat doing Reiki attunements
right, there is that process ofpreparing.
We're fasting, we're journaling, we're sitting with ourself, we
are integrating ourselves intowhat we're getting ready to go.

(34:54):
Do it's not just oh, you heardof Reiki, come on in, let's, you
know, attune you.
How many people have we metlike that, that have never even
known about Reiki, and then theyget attuned and it's like their
whole world flips upside downbecause they didn't even know
what to expect, because therewas no process of preparation
for them.

(35:14):
And so we have to look at allof this with the reverence that
we're talking about whether itis leveling ourselves up in our
journey work, whether that'sdoing attunements and having our
energy really advance and rise,or it's taking plant medicine.
But we have to do the work forourselves to understand where
we're going, because it shifts.

(35:34):
You aren't the same person whenyou come out of it, so we have
to look at how is this going toaffect me in the long run.

Speaker 1 (35:42):
You know what it reminds me of is I think it was
last year our team did a plantmedicine psychedelic experience
and it was really interestingleading up to it because we had
Christina and I had a friendthat we were talking to and she
was telling me oh, I did thatpsychedelic a couple years ago I
think it was like a year and ahalf at that point and she was

(36:04):
like it completely blew my mindopen.
Nothing I knew before I went inwas real.
Everything's a lie.
Like everything's an illusion,like her mind was just blown
open.
And basically what she wastrying to tell me because it was
my first time with thisparticular substance what she
was trying to tell me was becareful, like it's going to be
scary, it's going to be hard,you're going to lose yourself,

(36:25):
so just be prepared.
Right Was essentially theessence of it and I was like,
okay, you know, I can see thatthat was your experience.
I can see that that reallyrocked you, like it really
shifted her, because I knew herbefore and after and it was a
big difference from when I knewher before to when I knew her
after and I came out of thepsychedelic experience and I

(36:47):
think the first thing I toldChristina Chantel was that
wasn't anything I haven'texperienced in a shamanic
journey Like there.
It was just and that's not metrying to be prideful or
anything like that it's justreally for me highlighting that
all three of us came out of thatexperience and it was Chantel
and I's first time All three ofus came out of that experience
with a new understanding ofourselves, a new perspective,

(37:08):
right.
I definitely had some thingscome up that I integrated for
the next year, right, and thatwas really beautiful.
But I think that the reason Iwas able to do that is because I
had such a strong foundation ofjourney work, of these things
right, and it was interestingbecause, going into it, our
facilitator, who we all reallytrusted, we did screenings with

(37:30):
her.
We had like weeks ofpreparation, all the things
right.
One of the things that theycheck in the screening is do you
have a history of mental healthdisorders in yourself or your
family?
My parents both have some veryinteresting mental health
disorder history and she said Iknow you, I know the work that
you do, I think you're going tobe okay, even though you have

(37:52):
the history of it right and that, and to have that kind of faith
put in me, but then also tohave that faith in myself, right
, not just because she said it,but to know, walking in, that
I'm going to be fine.
I'm not worried about whatmight come through from my past
or from my lineage or whateverit is, because I know the work I
do.
I know the footsteps that haveled me to this place.

(38:15):
I know the work that I can doafter if anything comes up.
I know that I have this sacredcontainer.
I know that I have my friends.
I have Christine and Chantelhere to hold space for me, right
, like I know no matter what,that I am solid.
And then to go into thatexperience with that security,
with that knowing, and come outand say it really wasn't

(38:38):
anything different than anythingI've experienced in a journey,
was a really cool experiencebecause it really just
solidified for me that this iswhat we're talking about.
That space we can achieve withshamanic work, we can achieve
with mindset work, we canachieve, like Chantel said
earlier, sober.

(38:59):
And that doesn't take away fromthe fact that plant medicine or
psychedelics can be a fantastictool or a fantastic addition or
something that, when used inreverence and in ceremony and
really intentionally, canabsolutely add something to your
practice, but I don't thinkthat we need to be relying on it
to achieve these states or tohave this healing, because at
that point we're just againsaying I'm not enough as I am,

(39:23):
I'm not worthy as I am, I'mstill broken, I still need to
release, I still need to purge,I still need to find pieces of
myself, I still need to expandmy awareness and I need this
plant to do it.
And even if we're not sayingthat out loud, that's kind of
the undercurrent that I findruns underneath it a lot of the
time.

Speaker 2 (39:41):
You know it's so interesting, because I come to
this place too, of like I canrecognize, like, if I, like my
first time doing ayahuasca, Ihave been doing shamanic journey
work for, at that point, 14years, you know, and I was like
cool, like like it was likeeveryone's having these really
big emotional processes and I'mjust gliding through, right, and

(40:06):
it's because of all of the workthat I do in my spirit world,
right and and, and I've spent alot of time reflecting of like
what, what are we trying to getout of these experiences?
What am I trying to absorb?
What do I, what am I trying tofeel?
Because so many people arecoming at this, even from a

(40:28):
recreational, like a psychedelicuse, as a recreational thing,
like what are we trying to feel?
And so often my conclusion isthey're trying to feel moments
of bliss, they're trying to findmoments of ecstasy, they're
trying to find moments of theiraliveness, they're trying to
find moments of connection withspirit, right, and so then it's
like, how do you cultivate thosethings without giving your

(40:51):
power to a substance, withoutgiving your power to a
facilitator, without you knowwhat I mean?
And so it's like, okay, so nowI'm just like all right, well,
let's dive in how do I live anecstatic, blissful life and, as
things come forward in it, as asober person, how do I reflect
on, how do I get curious about,how do I dive in deeper and how

(41:12):
watching it unfold at a healthypace instead of like all at once
Right?
And I know this is why I kind offell in love with breath work,
like understanding thatholotrophic breathing can elicit
your own innate DMT in yourlungs so that you can have these
psychedelic experiences.

(41:32):
But the cool thing about it isthat you are in power the whole
time.
You can change your breathingat any time to bring yourself
back down Right and things cancome out of that Right.
Or, um, like I'm doing a ton ofsomatic processing and breath
work and movement work and likereally understanding my physical

(41:56):
container to really elicit anecstatic body right, a blissful
body.
And so I've been doing a lot ofTantra work and the Tantra work
has led me to walking aroundand like this really high
blissful state.
And there was a moment, not veryrecently, where I was like, oh

(42:16):
my God, I feel like I'm onecstasy, I feel like I am under
you know this psychedelicmedicine and I haven't had that
in a very long time and yet it'snow in, it's now accessible
without taking something, and Iknow how to elicit it and bring

(42:37):
it on, and I know how to calm itdown and contain it, and I can
be in the powerful position ofcontrolling my own energy field.
And I feel like when I'm there,here, I am feeling into my
ecstatic state of being, withoutany kind of plant medicine, and

(42:58):
getting visions and talking tothe land and drinking the teas
and like being in the state ofharmony with the earth, harmony
with myself, harmony with mypartner, you know, like all of
the things.
And it's like there's so um,and things show up like the, the
um, the, the, any kind of thingthat shows up.

(43:23):
Then I can get really, reallycurious about it's a timeout.
Why did I see it that way?
Why did it show up that way?
And so this last Saturday I Iled a shamanic Reiki day retreat
and it was so beautiful in thefact of like here we are all
sober and I'm guiding them intoecstatic states of being where

(43:47):
they're opening up their energyfield.
There we were doing luminousbody energy work, where they're
open to feeling their energeticstate in a new way, without any
plant medicine.
Right, there's so manydifferent ways to elicit the
same type of results that we'retrying to get out of plant
medicine in a sober way and ahealthy way and an ease and flow

(44:08):
way and a harmonious way right,it's just really I get curious.
I'm like this is so much, it'sso much more supportive to our,
to our bodies.

Speaker 3 (44:21):
It really is it.
You know it might be.
Some might feel like it's theslower process of it.
Right, and it is.

Speaker 1 (44:29):
I'm like yes.

Speaker 3 (44:31):
There's a lot of learnings and teachings that we
have to do.
We become the student whenwe're learning how to do breath
work, when we're learning how todo the journey work and all
that.
But then what you become is themaster of self, right, and
that's what I really embracewith the work that we do and
what I have learned as a studentbecoming a facilitator of it

(44:53):
and now doing that on a dailybasis.
When my higher mind just opensup and starts flooding me with
the information I need or avisual that I need because I'm
asking, I'm seeking answers,right, so I can connect to that,
I don't.
It's like you even get to apoint where you sometimes don't
even need to go right intoJourney, right, you just open up

(45:14):
that space within you and yougo okay, what do even need to go
right into journey?
Right, you just open up thatspace within you and you go,
okay, what do I need to receiveright now?
And so for me, it's like reallytuning into our discernment and
, like my whole, you know, I'vealways like, say, cannabis, I've
always smoked, right.
And then when I started doing myReiki journey, I had to quit
because it was taking me to aplace of where I wanted to

(45:35):
literally heal everything and Iwas like, well, how annoying is
this?
I can't even relax with it.
I feel you, I got to Reiki you,I'm Reiki-ing the whole world
and yeah, it's fun and it'sreally intense at times.
But I stopped for like overthree years and then now, if I

(45:56):
do partake, it's not like that,like I can just journey, I can
just be, I can be chill mode,but it's because I let myself
get to the point of where it wasno longer controlling me and I
could be conscious in it.
And I think that's thedifference Is, if you're just
taking and taking and taking,you're not in control.
And then that's where we haveto say why am I doing this Right

(46:19):
?
What is the purpose of it?
What's the point in it?
And if the point is just tohave a good time, then try to at
least do it in a way that is,within a sacred space.
We have to be our owncontainers and hold space for
ourselves, and that's what I wastalking about before.
It's like if we're going toeven go and experience that, my

(46:42):
suggestion to people is createyour own sacred space before you
take the medicine.
Don't just trust thefacilitator is going to do it
for you.
So create that sacred space.
Close your doors at the end.
Close it, give thanks to it, doyour part on it and even, like
you were saying, isabella, ittook you a year to process.
You know your integrationprocess for the one experience

(47:04):
that we had.
That is so key for people tounderstand it's not a week, it's
not a couple of days.
It literally can be a year ofprocessing the emotions and the
energy that came because of that, even though you do deep
journey work, right, you do thatwork and so still, that was
processing some things for you.

(47:25):
And there's even times wherestuff will still come up and I'm
like, oh, that's interestingGetting curious about it again.
But it's understanding why it'sshowing up and having the
facilitator, like we have eachother, we can come back.
What are you getting out ofthat?
What do you feel in this right,making sure our community too
is supportive and not just like,oh, what you know, and I think

(47:48):
a lot of people, they just arenot in those conscious levels to
say, hey, you know what?
You're probably integrating someof the work that you did with
that plant medicine experienceand maybe that needs to become a
conversation that people starthaving with each other when you
are taking it, and not just like, oh, you're going to have a
gathering at your house thisSaturday, okay, let's all pop

(48:09):
gummies, or we're going to dothis, we're going to do that.
It still should be withinceremony of it so that everyone
is protected, because as we allcollectively start raising our
conscious awareness, we're allsharing stuff.
Everything is being sharedenergetically, and if somebody
who's an empath doesn't know howto protect their energy isn't

(48:30):
solid in their container,they're going to be the ones
that are going to absorbeverything that's being released
in that conversation.
So it's bringing in sacredtobacco, offering it to the land
, giving thanks to the land forabsorbing the conversation that
we're having, or thanks to thetrees that we're sitting around,
however that is, but we need togive back to the earth too that

(48:51):
we're sitting around, howeverthat is, but we need to give
back to the earth too, becauseeven if all we're doing is
sitting and having aconversation like an inner, like
not energetic, but like anemotional purge, right, where is
that energy going?
It's being shared between us,it's being shared to the land,
it's going out into thecollective energy and we need,
as people, to get to thatawareness of, yes, doing an

(49:11):
offering, giving thanks, havinggratitude for nature for
absorbing it, and making surethat those who are very
sensitive, that they understandthey need to be extra protective
of themselves so that theydon't leave feeling extremely
heavy from the conversation thatthey just had Right, and also
giving yourself if you foundyourself in that company, giving

(49:32):
yourself some self-forgivenessand giving yourself some grace
of going, wow, that was anexperience and I'm going to
check in with myself of like, doI want to do that again?

Speaker 2 (49:42):
Because now I'm having to energetically clean
and purge all of these things,all of these things, and knowing
that like I think I foundmyself in that space time and
time again in 2024 with thecompany I kept like thinking
that, wow, this is great, funand play, and then going, Whoa,
I am just absorbing all of itand going, I'm no longer

(50:04):
available for this.
And how do I want to switch andwhere am I going and what
support do I need and how do Ineed to get clean and clear my
energy Right, Like, and I, andso I want to also just put out
there, like, if you have beenparticipating in this way,
without a lot of conscious,intentional thought, going into
your practices, taking a momentto go, is this, am I getting out

(50:29):
of this what I want?
Am I, am I, is this reallyserving me?
Is this helping support me inmy life path?
Or is it actually somethingthat I'm using to emotionally
suppress and push things downand ignore Because I'm just
going to.
As soon as it comes up again,I'm going to take another dose
of mushrooms or whatever it maybe Like.

(50:49):
How are we using this to tobypass what is meant for us to
look at Right?
And so I see all of thathappening and seeing a lot of
really beautiful people who areturning to to plant medicine as
a way of opening and expandingtheir mind, but not with a lot

(51:10):
of intentional preparation orintegration, because they just
don't, you just don't, sometimesyou just don't know any better,
or you think the intention ofplay and fun is enough to keep
that like, keep it in thatcontainer of play and fun.
I don't want anything else.
And going, wow, there's so muchmore, and so where can you say
yes to support?

(51:31):
Where can you say yes to?
I want so much more, and sowhere?
Where can you say yes tosupport?
Where can you say yes to I wantto learn more?
Where can you say yes to what?
If I could do all of these coolthings without needing to give
my power to a plant or to thisfacilitator or to this thing?

Speaker 1 (51:46):
And I think there's an aspect of there too, like
where can you say yes tolistening to your intuition
about?
Is the way that you're using,the amount that you're using,
the container that you're usingin, whether or not you are using
?
Is that all in alignment withyour intuition, with what you
want to get out of it, like youwere saying, with what your

(52:06):
intention is, with your valuesas a soul, as a human?
Is this in alignment with you?
Because if it's not, you'llknow deep down, even if it's
buried a little bit, if there'sthat nudge in you, if this
conversation kind of sparkedsomething in you, it's an
opportunity to get curious and Ithink there's nothing that the
three of us are saying that wethink it's wrong or bad or it

(52:29):
shouldn't happen.
It's what's the intentionbehind it?
Where's the ceremony?
Is it an alignment with you,with your values, with your
intuition?
And, as Chantal was talkingabout, you know, being in
control versus having themedicine have control over you.
I think that's a fantastic wayof putting it and the image that
I got in my head was stairsversus an escalator.

(52:50):
Like, you can take theescalator, you can stand on the
escalator, your body doesn'thave to move, you don't have to
do anything.
It's going to take you up,right.
But we all know that it'sreally important to know how to
take the stairs, because yourbody needs that, your mind needs
that.
That activity is going to getyour energy moving, your blood
pumping, it's going to make youstronger to actually do the work

(53:14):
, to walk up the stairs.
And there's nothing wrong withtaking the escalator sometimes,
right.
Sometimes we need that support,and actually it works out as a
metaphor too, because, like ifyou have baggage with you, right
, like if you are going to theairport with your bag, sometimes
you want the escalator to help,kind of give you that little
support that push up to the top.
But if you don't know how to usethe stairs, then it's

(53:37):
ultimately rooted in a place offear.
It's ultimately rooted in aplace of lack, because it's
coming from this belief that youcan't do this on your own, that
you couldn't reach the sameplace if you were just walking,
if you were doing the work, ifyou were using your own power,
and so you need something elseto have the power for you.
And that is ultimately wherewe're calling for a shift, where

(53:59):
we're calling for an invitationto look at and say is that the
assumption that you're operatingunder?
And can we be an example of thefact that using the stairs is
just as effective, doing this onyour own, doing this sober,
doing the work this way is justas effective and will make your
time on the escalator much moreenjoyable.
Because it's then rooted inthis self-esteem, this knowing

(54:22):
that I could take the stairs.
I could do that, I know how todo it, but I'm choosing to do
this this one time.
I'm choosing to do this withintention.
I'm choosing to do this thisone time.
I'm choosing to do this withintention.
I'm choosing to let myself havethat support, knowing that I
don't need it.

Speaker 2 (54:36):
Right?
Well, and I love this metaphortoo, because if you kind of look
at the baggage, if you'retaking the escalator with your
baggage, you're going to comeright down the escalator with
your baggage, most likely, likeyou might've unzipped it along
the way and might've grabbedsomething out and typically you
shoved it back in and you wentdown the escalator, whereas if

(54:57):
you're taking the stairs,there's so many opportunities to
take a seat on the stair, openup the bag, look through it, go.
You know, I actually don't needthis thing that I'm carrying,
or I don't need that and I havethe support to to sit and
observe and look into what is itall I'm carrying?
Do I need it anymore or not?
Maybe I just need to ditch thewhole fucking backpack along the

(55:19):
way.
Like you have theseopportunities when you're
walking slowly up the stairs togo wow, this is fucking heavy
and I don't want to carry itanymore, right.
And so I think this is why I amsuch an advocate of slow and
steady growth, like because it'ssustainable, and I think that's
what I love about how weoperate.

(55:40):
It's like it's okay to go slowand steady.
I would much rather do a fourmonth program where the stairs
are going to be long, right thestairs, but every single step
you're like hey, do you need anyhelp?
Here's a, here's a tool thatcan help unlock this thing.
And you know, when you hit thislevel of the stairs, we're

(56:01):
going to take a break and we'regoing to integrate and we're
going to have a pause and thenthere's going to be another
flight of stairs and you can goat your own pace along the
journey path.
And I think that's thedifference, because once you
know the staircase, then it'sjust fucking muscle memory.
Right, you've got it ingrained,you've done the work, you've
unpacked your bag along the way.

Speaker 3 (56:22):
I think that was a great visual.
It really was.
And knowing that that is how itis and it's having the next
flight of stairs and everything,because you can take the break
Once you do the plant medicine,there's no break, you're in it,
you are full blown in it.
There's no stopping, there's nolike hey, I'm just going to put
a pause on this experienceright now.
It's like, no, you're in it,and so what comes from it?

(56:44):
You don't always know, but I dolove that metaphor of how you
can take it the fast route, oryou can take it the slow and
steady way.
That is very sustainable, andknow that every day.
It's accessible to you.
You don't have to go takesomething to do it.
You wake up, you're like youknow what?
I need a journey this morning.
Okay, I'm in bed, I'm going todo my thing right here, right

(57:07):
now, call it in and I've done myjourney for the morning, or I'm
going to close my day out in it, or whatever.
I'm at work, I'm having amoment.
What do I need to know aboutthe situation?
I'm going to go take a journey.
I'll be back in 15 minutes.
You know it literally.
Is that fast, that easy, onceyou have taught yourself how to
do it and through, like workingwith the techniques that we, we

(57:30):
here, that we do teach right,and then you take them in your
life and that's your new baggage.
You can drop down the oldbaggage, pick up this new
toolbox along the way on yourstaircase and say you know what?
These are really here to helpme and to help me grow and
evolve into this space and placewithin myself that I can go do
the work.

Speaker 2 (57:50):
Right, right, and I think this is why I'm already so
excited for soul risingstarting in about a month,
because this is what we're doing, this is what we get to do.
I'm so honored and privilegedto walk along that staircase
with our students and while youjourney, I get a journey.
While you get a look at yourlimiting beliefs, I'm looking at

(58:10):
mine, you journey, I get ajourney.
While you get a look at yourlimiting beliefs, I'm looking at
mine.
While you are exploring whatyour childhood wounds are, I'm
going.
I'm kind of also self-analyzingand assessing going.
Is there anything left that Istill need to heal from this?
And it's an opportunity tocontinuously reflect,
continuously look, and I andmaybe that's just my personality

(58:32):
right, like I just don't everthink that there is an end game
goal of like being quote unquotehealed.
I'm done now I'm, I'm ecstaticto be fully living life and
wanting things to continuouslyget better and better.
And with these tools I meanthere's over, like I think
there's 35 to 40 differenttechniques Most of them are

(58:54):
shamanic techniques of how toreally work through and make
your life the spiritual oasissanctuary that you want it to be
.
Right and it, it, it takes workto get there and the fact that,
yeah, we all have fuckingbaggage and we get to choose
what we're carrying and whatwe're ready to heal and what

(59:15):
we're ready to release and whattools we want to pick up along
the way, that's going to supportus, and so it's just a really
beautiful opportunity andprogram that we're going to be
stepping into very soon.

Speaker 1 (59:24):
Absolutely, and I think one of the things that I
love about it is that it reallydoes kind of have this
double-edged approach of we'rediving really deep into the
basics of shamanism the chakras,shadow work, inner child
healing, shamanic journeys allof the techniques so that you
are learning how to walk theshamanic path, how to embrace

(59:46):
your unique spiritual gifts, howto do the work, how to embrace
your unique spiritual gifts, howto do the work, and we also
have this aspect of thatself-healing and going at your
own pace and discovering thingsabout yourself and working with
your inner child and healingyour past traumas and all of
these things.
And so it's like we're walkingthese paths at the same time of
understanding that we can belearning and we can be embracing

(01:00:07):
the path and we can be bringingthose tools into our toolkit
and we can be learning how towalk the shamanic way in an
educational way and, at the sametime, be doing our healing work
, be doing our aligning work, beclearing stuff out in a way
that feels gentle.
We had a student sharing in ourclosing call about how she
didn't think shadow work couldbe that gentle.

(01:00:29):
She was always so scared to doshadow work until she came into
our course and realized that itjust felt like learning, it just
felt like self-discovery, itjust felt like looking within
and being like, wow, I'm areally cool person.
Here are all of these likearray of experiences and traits
and beliefs and all of thesethings that I now get to explore
because I have the toolkit, Ihave the support from my

(01:00:52):
teachers and my fellow students,and I know myself enough to
know that I have the strength towalk up the stairs right, and
so I'm really excited for SoulRising to start on September
14th.
Early bird pricing is nowavailable.
It'll be available until theend of August.
So if you want to hop on a15-minute call with us
completely for free, just to seewhat the program's about, where

(01:01:14):
are you at, is this the rightnext step for you?
If it's not, we're going totell you.
But if this is the space for youand you have questions, we want
to meet with you.
We want to talk with you.
Get on a free call with us andwe'll just jam and see is this
the right next step for you?
Or if you're like, hell, yes,I'm in.
This is what I want to do.
We'll put the link below andyou can enroll for early bird

(01:01:36):
pricing now, like I said, that'savailable through the end of
August, so this is the lowestprice and we do have very
extended payment plans availableso that it can be financially
accessible, spirituallyaccessible, like all of the
things.
We want this to be open foreveryone, because we really
believe that if everyone in theworld did this work, the world

(01:01:56):
that we live in would be a verydifferent, very beautiful place.

Speaker 3 (01:02:00):
It's like an invitation to be if there's
going to be any addictions.
It's like be addicted to youand your own work and your own
like self process of healing andreleasing versus what's out
there, you know, but I'm notagainst it, I just like we're
saying the intention.
Have that intention and holdstrong space for yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
Absolutely Beautiful.
Well, thank you all so much asalways for listening.
Be sure to check out SoulRising, if you haven't, and join
our email list for more updatesabout what we have coming up in
the community.
And until next time, may youawaken to the whispers of wisdom
rising from within.
Thanks for tuning in to today'sshow.

(01:02:46):
The Wisdom Rising podcast issponsored by Moon Rising
Shamanic Institute.
If you enjoyed this episode, besure to subscribe to the show
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(01:03:08):
moonrisinginstitutecom to learnmore about our mission and find
future opportunities to connectwith our community of shamanic
mystics.
Once again, thank you forsharing space with us today, and
until next time, may you awakento the whispers of wisdom
rising from within.