March 24, 2025 • 53 mins
Are you hearing from your mind, or your intuition? In this episode, Isabel and Shantel explore the balance between your analytical mind and your intuitive knowing, two forces that guide our decision-making. When you’re at a crossroads, how do you know which voice to trust?
In this episode, we explore dive into:
- The role of the mind
- The power of intuition
- How to differentiate between these voices
- Tips to connect with your intuition
- Why trusting intuition is so challenging
- Mass consciousness beliefs that hold us back
- The spiritual perspective of cognitive dissonance
- Practical tips: How to create space for stillness, overcome fears of overthinking, and practice listening to the wisdom within.
- And more!
When mind and intuition align, life flows with ease and synchronicity. Learn how to activate your internal GPS and trust the guidance your soul is offering in today's episode!
Ready to trust your intuition? Listen now!
Plus, don’t miss out on Isabel's Soul Speak Masterclass, starting March 26th, where you can learn to access your soul’s wisdom with the same clarity as your conscious thoughts. Learn more here: https://moonrisinginstitute.circle.so/c/soul-speak-masterclass/
Moon Rising Shamanic Institute Links:
Website: https://moonrisinginstitute.com/
Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/moonrisinginstitute
Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/moonrisingmystics
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/moonrising.institute
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@moonrisinginstitute
Book a session with Isabel: https://calendly.com/into-the-deep/schedule
Book a FREE 15 minute connect call with Izzy: https://calendly.com/moonrisinginstitute/connect
Book a session with Christine: https://calendly.com/christinerenee/90-minutes-intensive
Book a FREE 10 minute connect call with Christine: https://calendly.com/christinerenee/10-minute-connect-call-srpt
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
It's time to remember your divine purpose and
limitless potential.
Welcome to Wisdom Rising, theofficial podcast of Moon Rising
Shamanic Institute.
Join shamanic Reikipractitioners Christine Rene,
isabel Wells and Chantel Ochoaas we guide you on a journey of
radical self-discovery andspiritual guidance.
(00:26):
Each week, we'll dance throughthe realms of shamanism,
mysticism, energy, healing andpersonal development to
illuminate your path to truehealing and self-sourced wisdom
Through weekly inspiredconversations and interviews
with leading spiritual andshamanic practitioners.
We are here to help youacknowledge, reconcile and
(00:49):
balance your energy so that youcan awaken to the whispers of
wisdom rising from within.
Hello, hello, my friends, andwelcome back to another episode
of the Wisdom Rising podcast.
I am so excited to be joinedwith Chantel Ochoa for today's
(01:13):
episode.
We're going to be diving intothe mind versus the intuition
and how to tell the difference.
This is probably one of thebiggest questions that we get
asked after how do I develop andlearn to trust my intuition?
The next question is often well, how do I know if it's my mind
or my intuition that I'm hearing, and how do I develop the trust
(01:34):
and the courage to be able tofollow my intuition once I know
that that's the voice that I'mhearing from?
So, in today's conversation,chantel and I dive into our own
perspectives around how to tellthe difference between your mind
and your intuition.
We give you some really amazingtips and techniques to decipher
if the message you're receivingis your mind versus your
(01:55):
intuition, and we also dive intothe importance of soul-led
living and at the very end, wespeak more about soul speak, the
intuition channeling modalitythat we've been talking about
for the last few weeks here onthe show to help you give your
intuition a voice that is asclear as the voice of your mind.
(02:17):
So, if you have been lovingthis content and you want to
dive even deeper into soul speak, if you've been asking yourself
well, how do I know if it is mymind or my intuition, or how do
I connect to my intuition?
How do I quiet the monkey mind?
How do I process emotions thatcome up?
How do I trust my intuition andactually take action on it?
(02:39):
How do I make it moreconsistent instead of just an
every now and then gut instinct?
All of those kinds of things Ifyou've been really interested
in diving deeper into yourintuition, living a soul-led
life, releasing your mind andusing it as the tool that it was
meant to be rather than feelinglike your anxious thoughts are
running your life, then I wouldalso love to invite you to join
(03:01):
me for my four-week soul speakmasterclass.
Classes start this Wednesday,march 26th if you're listening
to this, this week when it'sreleased.
Classes start this Wednesday at8 pm Eastern time.
We'll meet for four weeks, butif you can't make it live, or
you'd rather take this as aself-paced course, this
(03:21):
masterclass will be available asan evergreen class, meaning
that we're going to set up theclass in such a way that you can
watch the recordings and stillget the full benefit out of the
class.
Of course, we'd love to haveyou live because, while we're
going to be having instructiontime to learn about the soul,
learn about the intuition, learnabout the psychology of
(03:41):
cognitive dissonance from aspiritual perspective, learn how
to give your soul a voicethat's as clear as your mind and
release all of the doubt, weare also going to be having hot
seating demo time where you'regoing to get the chance to
workshop with me one-on-one, tohear your intuition, to bring
awareness to your own life abouthow you can integrate all of
(04:02):
this information.
So the class is going to be amix of teaching and actually
workshopping it and activelyintegrating it into your life,
and I would love to see youthere.
We already have so many amazingindividuals signed up, and this
course is a more intimateone-on-one kind of space, so
you'll get to join together witha small group of people.
You'll have a class chat aswell as access to the class
(04:25):
materials, and you'll be walkingthis path alongside other
amazing individuals who arelooking to connect to their soul
and their intuition more deeply.
I was speaking with a studentabout the class earlier this
morning and explaining thatreally, my vision and my goal
for this is that at the start ofthe class you'll come in and
maybe you feel like your mind isrunning your life, like you
don't know where your intuitionis taking you or what it sounds
(04:48):
like, or you wish that it couldjust be clearer and more obvious
.
Maybe you're wishing that lifecould be more simple and less
chaotic and by the end of theclass, we're going to walk the
full arc so that, instead ofliving our lives driven by our
minds and our anxieties, we knowhow to live our life from our
soul, how to connect to ourintuition so that it is that
(05:09):
primary source of guidance andwisdom in our lives and we know
how to get our mind on boardwith it, so we don't constantly
feel like we're fightingourselves, trying to live by our
soul, but fighting our mind.
We're all in alignment with ourown inherent wisdom and life
feels in flow again.
Life feels magical again.
So that is our goal with thisworkshop.
(05:30):
Like I said, classes start onWednesday, march 26th.
I would love to see you there,whether you join us live or you
listen to the recordings, thelink for this class will be in
the show notes and we would loveto see you there.
We have a one-time payment or atwo-part payment plan available
, so you can choose what feelsbest for you financially.
In addition, don't forget thatChantel has her Soul Contracts
(05:52):
Masterclass.
That has already started, but,just like my Soul Speak class,
Soul Contracts will also becomean evergreen course, meaning
that you can watch along withthe recording.
So if you're interested in that, the link will also be in the
show notes.
And finally, I do invite you tocome join me this May at the
Northeast Reiki Retreat takingplace up in the Andiridak
(06:14):
Mountains in New York.
I'm teaching both a pre retreatclass and giving a presentation
at the actual retreat.
So the Northeast Reiki Retreatis a fantastic opportunity to
come together with like-minded.
So the Northeast Reiki Retreatis a fantastic opportunity to
come together with like-mindedindividuals to learn about Reiki
and energy healing.
It is absolutely an incredibleexperience.
Christine and I went togetherlast year and it was one of the
(06:36):
highlights of my year.
It was just such a beautifultime to come together with
like-minded souls to learn, toexperience, to buy amazing
spiritual gifts.
They have vendors there.
Moon Rising will also be avendor offering free shamanic
reiki demonstrations as well.
So my pre-retreat class will bean introduction to shamanic
reiki.
It's six hours on May 1st andthen the first day of the actual
(07:01):
retreat is May 2nd.
The retreat runs from May 2ndto the 4th and it's up in Silver
Bay, new York, and it's anincredible experience.
I'll be speaking on May 3rdabout multidimensional healing
through the chakras and thenthroughout the retreat I'll have
a vendor table there withinformation about moon rising,
free demos and so much more.
So if you're interested incoming and hanging out with me
(07:23):
and other amazing spiritualindividuals up in Silver Bay,
new York, for a wonderfulrestorative experience and
conference, I highly recommendthat you come to the Northeast
Reiki Retreat.
Once again, those dates are May2nd to the 4th, or you can join
me for my pre-retreat class onMay 1st.
You can find all of theinformation about this amazing
event at the link in the shownotes, but please note that
(07:46):
registration does close on April1st.
So if you're wanting to join us, the time to register is now,
and if you have any questions onthis, feel free to reach out to
me.
With all of that said, we're soexcited about these amazing
events and classes that we havecoming up here for Moon Rising,
with many more to come.
So stay tuned and be sure tokeep an eye on our Shamanic
(08:07):
Mystics Facebook group, if youaren't already a part of that,
as well as joining us on ourFacebook page, our Instagram,
checking out our YouTube channeland so much more.
We would love to interact withyou on all of our platforms and,
of course, before we dive intotoday's episode, don't forget to
subscribe and share thispodcast so that we can reach
more spiritual and shamanicseekers just like you.
(08:29):
Now, with all of that said,let's dive in to today's show.
Welcome, welcome back toanother amazing conversation.
I am joined with Chantel todayand we are diving into mind
versus intuition and how.
You know the difference.
And this is such a passiontopic for both of us.
(08:50):
Here at Moon Rising, we arereally passionate about helping
people come back into connectionwith their intuition because we
know, like we know, like weknow, as Christine would say,
that all of the answers that weneed are within and are in our
intuition.
And that's probably the biggestquestion that people ask when
they join our community is well,how can I develop my intuition,
how do I strengthen thatconnection?
(09:12):
But a lot of times that questionis really closely followed by
well, how do I know?
I didn't just make that up howdo I know if it's my mind or my
intuition?
How do I know which voice I'msupposed to listen to?
Because I think we all have alittle bit of this push and pull
in us towards that intuitive,all-knowing inner feeling, our
gut feelings a lot of peoplecall them and then our mind,
(09:34):
these thoughts that we hear allthe time, that we get caught up
in and it feels like we can'tquite pull ourselves out of the
stories or the conditioning orthe shoulds or the what-ifs, and
so I'm really hoping that intoday's conversation we can shed
a little bit of light onexactly how can you start to, in
your own life, really determinewhere's your intuition, where's
(09:55):
your mind, and give you sometangible tools and techniques so
that you can not only tell thedifference but really start that
journey of working towardstrusting your intuition, walking
with your intuition and lettingit be the GPS of your life?
So this is if you guys watchedour previous conversation, we
did a demo on soul speak withChristine and we dove a little
bit into the idea of mind versussoul or mind versus intuition
(10:19):
in that conversation.
So if you haven't listened tothat, I highly recommend you
doing that.
But this is really where we'regoing to kick ourselves off
today is what exactly is themind and what exactly is the
intuition?
Speaker 2 (10:31):
So, chantal, I'd love for you to kind of kick us off
with your thoughts on thatconnecting to our intuition and
letting, like you said, lettingour guides and our intuition be
our GPS in life, because that'swhen you know you're truly on
the right path.
And I know, with the questionof how do I know?
(10:52):
It's not me making it up or isthat really my intuition coming
through?
And so, if you think about howmuch you have to think in the
process of thought to createanything memories, thoughts,
creating content, whatever it isit takes a lot of work and when
you're tuning into yourintuition, there's no work, it
(11:12):
comes, it flows, you receive it.
And so I think, when you canreally step into that moment and
embody it and just let it flow,you are being.
We are constantly being talkedto, we are constantly receiving
messages, but our mind wants toblock it.
Our mind wants to say no,that's that's you, you're
(11:33):
creating it.
And it gets you into thislogical thought process and says
that's not really happening.
And in the background, spiritsis still doing the nudging.
Yes, it is.
You know, background spirits isstill doing the nudging yes, it
is.
And so it is tuning into whatis flowing for you, versus how
are you having to mechanicallymake it happen?
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Oh, I love that and I love that way of looking at the
mind, because often what I find, especially in the spiritual
community, when we start goingthrough our spiritual awakening
or we start realizing that maybethere's more to life than what
we've been taught, there is thatbox that we get put in.
We really start to realize thatas a society, as a culture,
we've really been conditioned tobelieve that the mind is the be
(12:15):
all, end all.
We live in a world right nowthat really thrives on intellect
.
Can you make it logic?
Can you prove it with science?
Can you find the end of theequation through mathematics?
There's this very heavy focuson can you think your way from
the beginning question to theend answer, and if you can't,
then it's not real.
It's kind of the reigning ideathat we see in our culture right
(12:38):
now, and so, as such, we'vereally started to give a lot of
power to our minds, when itwasn't designed to be that way.
There's this really famousquote that is often attributed
to Einstein and it's actuallynot Einstein's quote, but a lot
of people think it was and it'ssomething about how the
intuition was made to be themaster and the mind the servant.
(12:59):
But somewhere along the waythey've switched.
The mind is now the master andthe intuition is the servant.
And that's such a poignantpoint to bring into this
conversation today, because whatends up happening is we feel
like our mind should be able tohave answers, that our mind
should be able to come up withthe end idea that we're looking
for, that if we have a problem,the mind should be able to solve
(13:20):
it.
But that's not at all what themind was ever designed to be.
Our mind is.
I have two main ways of lookingat the mind, and the first is as
a translator.
Our mind is kind of like thisenergetic translator for our
human physical experience.
We don't have a mind the waythat we think of it right now.
We don't have an ego or a mindwhen we're just in the spiritual
(13:43):
realm.
We have consciousness, we havespirit, but we don't have a mind
.
And so what exactly is a mindis really important to
understand when we're trying todecide is it my mind or is it my
intuition we have to know whatwe're looking at first, and so
when we're talking about themind, typically what we think of
is the thinking part ofourselves, right?
Sometimes we associate it withthat.
(14:04):
I am X Y Z.
Whatever the X Y Z is theidentity maker, the problem
solver, the thinker.
If I asked you right now whatyou're thinking, you could
probably tell me because we'reso in tune with our thoughts and
we believe that because we canthink, because we do have the
capacity to, like you weresaying, mechanically pull things
apart and go from a question toan answer that it should be
(14:26):
able to do that all the timeuntil we get to a question or a
choice or a life experience thatour mind doesn't have the
answers to.
And then we feel like we failed.
Right, a lot of our self-worthcomes from.
Do I feel like I have theanswer?
Do I feel like I have theability to solve this problem?
And if we don't, we feel likewe're floundering, and that's
because we are working with avery limited tool.
(14:48):
We're trying to take somethingthat was only ever designed to
be a tool for us to use in ourhuman experience and make it the
constructor of our humanexperience.
And so what I mean by this is,if you think about a radio, for
example, right, there are soundwaves in the air.
They're always there.
You just can't hear them untilyou have the radio, and the
radio can then translate thosesound waves into something that
(15:10):
you can hear, right Into themusic, into the NPR station,
whatever it is for you.
Our mind is like that radio.
It takes that energeticexperience that is preceding all
of this physical stuff right.
We all know that the universeis energy.
When we go beyond the physical,we get to the spiritual, to the
energetic.
And the mind was given to us asthis tool that was supposed to
(15:31):
be able to help us translatethat energy into something that
we can understand, that would beable to help us grasp at least
a little bit the concept of theuniverse while we were here in
human form.
But it was also designed as anaction maker.
It was never supposed to be thething that gave us the idea.
It was never supposed to be thething that gave us the answer.
(15:51):
It's not a generator, it's atranslator.
Another way of thinking aboutthis that I tell our students
all the time is it's like yourmind is an Excel spreadsheet.
You can put all of this data inthe Excel spreadsheet, right,
and you can run the equations.
You can do the sums and theaverage and all the functions
and get a new number, but isthat number actually brand new?
No, it's generated based on allof the data that you've put
(16:13):
into it so far, and that'sexactly what our mind does.
Our mind is this storehouse ofevery experience, memory,
thought, belief that we've hadup to this point and in order to
keep us safe, like we've talkedabout so many times here on the
show.
In order to keep us safe, ourmind, our subconscious, is
constantly trying to formulateprojections of the future.
(16:34):
Based on what data it alreadyhas saying well, this happened
in the past.
How can we avoid that in thefuture?
Right, that's what triggers are.
Everybody's familiar withtriggers where something in our
present is reminding us ofsomething in our past, and so
our body goes into a panicresponse because we're trying to
stop it from happening again.
That's what our mind was for.
It was this way of looking atwell, what's happened in the
(16:55):
past and how can we use that totake action in the future?
It's a fantastic tool until westart deciding that it should be
the thing guiding our lives,because what's going to happen?
If the only voice we ever listento is our thoughts, and the
only voice we ever listen to isour mind we're only ever going
to play out our old patternsover and over, and over and over
(17:15):
again, because the mind is notcapable.
It's not, it's not capable ofproducing anything new.
It's capable of producingprojections of the future based
on the past experiences, andthat's it.
And so, as we get into thisspace where we live in a society
that is so heavily based onwhat our minds can do,
(17:39):
ultimately, I think that's whywe find ourselves feeling so
limited and so exhausted and soburnt out and so lost, not only
as a culture, but alsoindividually.
I think everybody, especiallylike we were talking about
earlier, with some of thateclipse energy that we've been
having that feeling ofdisconnect often comes when we
are more connected to our mindthan we are to our soul.
(18:01):
Because when we're connected toour mind, when we're using our
mind to make all of ourdecisions and help us take
action on what we're supposed todo next and try and find all of
the answers, we're trying to doinfinite functions with a
limited resource, and that'sexhausting, because that wasn't
what the mind was intended to do.
It was intended to be that datacollector that looked at all of
(18:22):
the information, took theinsights and the understanding
from the information, took theinsights and the understanding
from the soul, from the infinite, from that spiritual pool that
we have that exists beyond thephysical.
It was meant to be able to takethat infinite resource and
translate it into something thatwould help us navigate this
human life.
It was supposed to be thisco-creator, but we have taken
(18:43):
its partner out of the equationbecause we've become so
separated and so distanced fromour intuition.
And so I love what you weresaying about where can you find
that alignment and that flow, sothat you're not forcing it?
Because one of the things thatmany people don't realize that
we bump up against in our dailylives is we have cognitive
dissonance.
Right, we have thepsychological idea of what
(19:05):
cognitive dissonance is, but ifyou look at it from a spiritual
perspective, there's a kind ofcognitive dissonance.
That is when our mind is tryingto do one thing and our soul or
our intuition is pulling us ina different direction.
Because, like you said, we arespiritual beings, we are
connected to the flow of life,we are connected to the flow of
energy, we have this inherentknowing of what is right for us
(19:28):
in each moment, but because werely so heavily on our minds,
often that river of movement andmomentum and passion and
purpose is muted and we can'thear it as much.
And so our mind can be off,trying to get us to do one thing
in life while our soul is stillon the back and just steadily
pushing us toward our highesttruth, our highest purpose.
(19:48):
And then we feel torn becauseit's like why isn't anything
working?
Why am I full of questions?
Why does the unknown feel soscary?
Why do I feel so exhausted?
Because your mind is in oneplace and your soul is in
another?
But when you can come into thatalignment, when you can do the
work to be able to hear yourintuition, to be able to
understand the constructs thatyour mind is operating on, what
(20:11):
are your limiting beliefs, whatare your experiences, what are
you thinking?
How is your brain trying tokeep you safe, and you can work
through those to what I like tocall reconnect the wires, so
that your mind is connected toyour soul and vice versa, you
step back into that co-creativeenergy.
That's really where we weremeant to be, what we like to
(20:36):
call alignment, when our mindand our soul are operating
towards the same goal andthey're moving in the same way,
and when we're in that space,that feeling of work doesn't
exist, that feeling of tensiondoesn't exist, that feeling of
tension doesn't exist, thatfeeling of well, what do I do
next?
I don't know, and that's notokay.
That anxiety doesn't existbecause we are in alignment mind
, body and soul towards thatflow of life, towards that
(20:58):
understanding of where theinfinite is taking us in this
physical realm.
And so I think, when we canlook at it that way, I find that
that's a really powerful placeto begin this work of
deciphering.
Where is your mind, where isyour intuition?
Because then we get to see themind not as a burden, not as
this thing that keeps us runningin circles and makes us feel
(21:20):
anxious, and has all theselimiting beliefs and is trying
to keep us safe but failing, andwe get so frustrated at our
minds.
But if we can look at it as atool of what?
If your mind was here to helpyou translate the words of your
intuition, to help you connectto your soul into the infinite
and translate that into theactions and the ways that you
move through the world?
If your mind was a tool, howwould that change the way you
(21:42):
look at it?
So I love that you brought upthat flow of alignment, because
that's such a powerful, simpleplace to start is does this feel
easy, or in flow, or does itnot?
Because if the answer is no,then your mind is telling a
different story.
It's running a different scriptthan what your intuition is
wanting you to play out.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
I really like that.
You're talking about the replayof what our mind does too,
because if you look at history,you know our history is proving
what happens when we run fromthe operating function of just
our mind, our thought beinglogical structures, all of it.
You know our like, literallyhistory is absent of a lot of
(22:24):
intuition and connecting to thefeminine energy and running very
masculine.
And so the replay is like youwere saying, how our mind can
only project what is happening,what will happen in the future,
based off of our past.
And that's kind of a scaryplace to be, because then we're
never going to create newexperiences in our life if we're
(22:46):
always chasing the tale of theold ones.
And if that's anything, ifthat's grief, if that's sadness,
if that's loss of jobs, loss ofopportunities, whatever it is,
we create that by the thoughtsthat we put out, how our energy
is projected, and so theuniverse literally is saying yes
to us, based off of ourfrequency.
And so if we're always puttingout fear, if we're always
(23:09):
putting out the what, ifs andthe shouldas and the couldas,
then the universe is always likeyes, let's show that to you,
right, and so that's why a lotof people I feel they get.
We become trapped in periods ofour life where there is no
growth because our mind is inthis perpetual cycle and then we
forget to tune in and listen toour intuition and to the nudges
(23:33):
that are saying hey, becausethat's the softer voice and if
you're not paying attention andhaving awareness to that softer
voice and the mind is screamingand the mind is now triggering
the emotions and the emotionsare on override and the thoughts
are on override.
That is way more powerful inthis physical realm than our
intuition is.
Because that you have to gointo a place of silence, you
(23:56):
have to be, you have to becentered with yourself, you have
to meditate, you have to beintrospective, and not everyone
does that.
A lot of people are actuallyhave fear around being in
silence.
You know, there's plenty oftimes I do ceremony in person
and and I'll say, okay, we'rejust going to meditate, we're
just going to sit in silence,and people are like what?
(24:17):
Wait?
You see them have a physicalresponse and start stirring in
their chair because they don'teven want to know what the
silence of their mind has to say.
And I'm like you're going tolisten to your intuition, you're
going to listen to your spirit.
What does it have to tell you?
And set that intention ofwhatever question you have that
you are seeking answers for,because the mind isn't always
(24:39):
going to give it to you.
The mind is the doer.
It's going to tell you go out,go do this, do that, da, da, da
da.
The intuition is going to showyou, it's going to show you an
easier way to do it.
It's going to give answers thatthe mind can't create.
So when it's like, how do youknow it?
Like I said in the beginning,if you're creating all the
answers, you're not in yourintuitive nudges, you're not
(25:00):
listening to that voice.
And so it really is aninvitation to go within and to
sit and be silent with yourself,Even if it's something simple
like burning sage or burningpolo, or you know playing bowls
or just playing.
You know some kind of frequencymusic, you know.
Listen to what is calling you.
(25:21):
And if you're always stuck inyour head, ask yourself why?
Why am I always in my head?
What am I afraid of?
What do I feel is always goingto come forward for me?
If I am to let the mind shutdown a little bit and tune into
my intuition and let that justhappen.
Let that grow, let a new gardenin your life start to be
(25:42):
abundant to you, and it'samazing what can show up for us,
absolutely.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
And I love that point that you made at the end,
because I think there really issomething to say for how
attached we get to our minds andit's not.
That's not a bad thing, it'snot that we're doing anything
wrong.
It is again the way that we'vebeen raised, the way that we've
constructed our society forhundreds and thousands of years
is to be really attached to ourminds.
But that means that when thetime comes where we get to this
(26:11):
point and we realize that themind is fallible, it's limited,
that living life only in tunewith our mind doesn't feel right
.
And I think that's really whereprobably everyone listening to
this if this is the topic thatsparked your interest has
probably had that moment wherethey're stuck in the hamster
wheel of anxiety, or you'restuck in a limiting belief and
(26:31):
you can't get out of it, oryou've done everything quote,
unquote right the way you should, according to how society has
laid things out, and your lifedoesn't feel fulfilling.
And you realize that when I'mjust living from my mind, from
this list of to-do lists andshoulds and what ifs, and I'm
logicking everything out and I'mdoing that mechanical work of
making everything happen, notonly is it exhausting but it's
(26:54):
also not fulfilling.
And this is where, from ashamanic perspective, we go back
to that idea of there's thisreally beautiful understanding
in a lot of the traditionalshamanic ways of teaching that
soul wasn't a given.
Not that not everybody has asoul, but that not everybody
connects to it in this lifetime.
That our ability to witness, toconnect to our soul, was
(27:18):
something that we had to searchfor, something that we had to
work a little bit at in order tobe able to connect to it.
It's not just there, becauseit's there, and this is really
such a powerful idea that Ithink we're all coming to right
now that, again, from a shamanicperspective, in a lot of ways
(27:38):
our society right now, ourculture, would be viewed as
insane in those traditionalshamanic perspectives because we
are so separated from nature,we are so separated from our
soul.
But what that means is not onlydo we have the opportunity to
bridge that gap, but it meansthat when we're standing on the
other side, when we've beenraised to be connected with our
mind, when we've been raised tofear anything that's not
provable, when we've been raisedto think that anything that we
(28:00):
can't see or pull out of anequation or see with a
microscope isn't real.
The idea of stepping beyond yourmind and trusting your
intuition is terrifying becauseit is this unseeable, unknowable
force.
And even if you've had gutinstincts, even if every person
has had a moment where they knewI need to turn right here
(28:22):
instead of left, or I need to goback into that coffee shop so I
can talk to this person, or youknow what, this doesn't feel
right.
I'm leaving.
Everybody has had that moment.
But it doesn't matter because,no matter what to the mind,
letting go of control is scarybecause when that's what it's
done for its entire life, whenthat's what we've been trained
to believe will keep us safe,will keep society functioning,
(28:45):
will keep us from being viewedas crazy, will, whatever it is,
it's scary the idea of lettinggo of control because ultimately
, that's what we're asking ourmind to do.
When we want to step into theintuition is say there's more
than my mind here, there's morethan what I'm seeing and I'm
ready to go after it.
But that means that the mindhas to take a step back and if
(29:06):
we're really attached, if wereally identify with our minds,
that's like asking us to let goof a little bit of identity, to
let go of a little bit ofcontrol.
And so if you're thinking aboutthis idea of connecting to your
intuition, but you kind of findyourself going halfway in,
halfway out, like maybe you takea step towards stressing your
intuition and then you back outand oh, it didn't work, or that
(29:27):
was too scary, or it was toohard, or you just find yourself
slipping back into your mentalpatterns, asking yourself what
is keeping you attached to yourmind?
What's the story that you'retelling yourself?
Do you truly fully believe thatyour intuition knows more than
your mind does?
Do you truly fully believe thatthere is a source greater than
you of information or love?
(29:48):
And that's really when we'retalking about the difference
between the mind and theintuition.
That's what we get to is themind knows how to ask the
questions right.
It knows how to do thecalculations, it knows how to
make those projections that wewere talking about.
Your intuition is the part thathas the answers, because it is
that piece of the divine within.
Whatever you want to call that,whether it's God, universe,
source, spirit, all that is Tao,whatever it is for you that all
(30:12):
that is-ness, it's that littlepiece of it that is in you, that
essence of you, that is thespiritual being having this
human experience.
And when we connect to thatplace, it has all of the answers
.
Because it is all of theanswers, it has all of the love
because it is all of the love,it has no need to rush or try or
(30:35):
strive or be anxious or worry,because it knows in the deepest,
most pure way that everythingwill be okay.
It knows what happened beforeand what will happen next,
because it is all that is.
And so this is one of thebiggest ways that I tell people
you can find the differencebetween your mind and your
(30:55):
intuition is your mind is alwaysgoing to make things
complicated.
It's always going to feel likeit's moving fast, that it has a
lot to say, that it can show youexactly how you're going to get
from point A to point B.
If it feels like something'sbeing proven with this thought
or this story or this answer,most likely it's coming from
your mind, because, again, yourmind, as that Excel spreadsheet,
(31:16):
wants to show its work.
It wants to be able to say well, this happened in the past, so
here's what's going to happen inthe future and here's the
actions we're going to take toavoid that.
It has this beautiful storylinewhich, again, can be really
helpful.
But when we're trying to tuneinto our intuition, that's how
the mind is going to feel.
It's going to feel really fastand a little bit chaotic and
oftentimes it is rooted in fearor anxiety, the choices that our
(31:40):
mind makes, especially asadults.
When we've been trained for themind to act in that way, to
take our past and project itinto the future, been trained
for the mind to act in that wayto take our past and project it
into the future, it's going toact from fear because it's
trying to keep us safe.
But that idea of keeping ussafe means that we are in danger
.
To our mind, right.
But our intuition, it is thatstillness, it is that knowing
(32:02):
and that calm and that peace.
It is that moment, whether it'swhen you're walking in nature
and you feel yourself relaxed oryou're meditating and there's
that depth inside of you that'smore than what you notice in
your waking life, or it's asyou're falling asleep and it
just kind of fills you up.
It is that all that is-ness,and it is so simple and so
(32:22):
succinct and so clear, andoftentimes that is why it is so
hard to listen to, because itfeels too simple, it feels too
easy, it feels too quiet.
There's often this thought whenwe go from trusting our mind,
which has all of the stories,and improve all of the things
and do all of this and ask allthe questions, and it knows
exactly what to say and it has20 words where five would do
(32:46):
when we go from that tolistening to the intuition,
which is soft and simple andoftentimes as clear as a yes or
a no or even just a knowing inour body, we feel like it can't
possibly be true, that it can'tbe.
If it's so succinct, if it's sogentle, if it's so quiet, it
can't be that powerful, it can'tpossibly be right, it can't be
(33:08):
more than our mind.
And so we back away from it andnoticing in that gap, where is
that fear coming from?
What's that story for you?
What is the belief that you'reholding onto?
That's keeping you fromtrusting your intuition.
Because the thing is, youwouldn't be listening to this
conversation if you didn'talready know what your intuition
was telling you, and that's theother thing.
(33:29):
It's not like we can turn ourintuitions off.
We all always know exactly whatour intuition is telling us to
do in every moment we just kindof live in this state of chronic
denial because we've beenraised to act that way, not
because we've done something bad, not because we're trying to
run from our soul, but justbecause that's how life is.
But we are constantly in thisstate of denial and I always
(33:52):
tell my students when they cometo me and they're like well, I
just don't know what to do and Ijust feel so torn.
And it's like you wouldn't feeltorn if you didn't already know.
You wouldn't have that sense oftension if you didn't already
know here's what your mind issaying you should do.
And here's what your mind issaying you should do.
And here's what your intuitionis saying you should do.
You wouldn't feel stuck, youwouldn't feel frustrated, you
wouldn't feel anxious If therewasn't part of you that was
(34:15):
saying there's more to this thanwhat your mind is seeing.
There's more to this situationthan this choice you're about to
make.
And so that is.
It can almost be a comfort thatthe fact that we're having that
tension or that frustration orthat anxiety or whatever it is
for you, that feeling ofseparation, means that you
inherently know there'ssomething that you're separated
from, which means you're alreadyconnected to your intuition.
(34:37):
You've just got to find whatthat belief or that fear is.
That's keeping you fromdropping down.
That's keeping you from beingconnected.
That's keeping you fromdropping down.
That's keeping you from beingconnected.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
That's keeping you from getting into that alignment
.
Yeah, I wrote down why do wetrust chaos over easy?
It's like we.
It literally is throughconditioning and life and trauma
and just life.
You know, we've come to thisplace where we will trust in the
chaos and complication versuswhat's easy and what's in flow.
And I think because there's astigma of if you are, if life is
(35:13):
easy, then it's lazy or it'snot active.
You know that kind of stuff andit's really not what that is.
I'm at in a phase in my liferight now where I'm actually
fully embracing, embodying whatit means to do self-care and to
let life flow versus alwaysgoing against it.
(35:33):
You know, I've always been inthis fight or flight energy of
you know I'm the doer and I'mthe single mom and I'm this and
that, and now I'm like you knowI can be in the flow and it is
such a different shift.
But it's amazing because evenif things are coming at me, I
take it in a way that's justlike okay, you know, it's just
easier for me to do.
I just finished a one yearprogram with natural mysticism,
(35:56):
a class, and she says let yourfallen, fall in love with your
intuition so much that your egoor your mind follows it like a
puppy dog, and I was like youknow, that's kind of cool, cause
it's like, yeah, just be inyour intuitive mind or your
intuitive energy, so that yourmind just flows and follows it
and it wants the answers fromyour intuition as well.
(36:18):
But for you, what is somethingthat like for people that want
to know how they can connectwith their intuition and have a
spiritual tool that helps themget there?
What is something that yourecommend?
Speaker 1 (36:31):
That's a great question, and I think this is
where, again, this is everythingthat we teach at Moon Rising,
because this is really thecornerstone of everything that
we do, whether it's shamanicwork or Reiki or just living a
spiritual life that connectionto your intuition is paramount.
It's vital to be able to doingthis work because our mind isn't
(36:53):
connected to the spiritual.
Our mind is not spiritual inany way, shape or form.
It's not.
It's a translator, it's thatExcel spreadsheet, it's a tool.
And so when we're playing inthe spirit realm, when we're
connecting with Reiki orshamanism or doing something
like soul speak, we are playingin the spiritual, which means we
are connected to our soul.
(37:14):
And I love that you brought upthat idea of sympathetic versus
parasympathetic, because that isoften the ultimate answer when
we're asking how do you know,how do you switch into an
intuitive space of if you'rerunning around and you're
stressed and you're caught inanxiety and you're moving really
quickly and your sympatheticnervous system is activated and
you're going, going, going, itis not possible to deeply tune
(37:36):
into your intuition in thatspace?
Can your intuition rise to meetyou when you need it Absolutely
?
Can spirit find ways to get youmessages when you need it most
Absolutely.
But if we're talking aboutreally developing and tuning
into your intuition, it doesrequire us, like you were saying
at the beginning, to be in thatcalm, open, meditative state.
(37:57):
Because, again, that idea ofchaos, that idea of anxiety,
that idea of fear is mind made.
It doesn't exist in the soul.
The soul doesn't know fear, itdoesn't know separation, it
doesn't know anxiety, because itis all that is.
And so, in order to meet it, inorder to find our intuition, we
have to find a way to calmourselves, to be in that
(38:17):
parasympathetic rest and digestnervous system state.
And that's often step one isjust looking at where's your
nervous system, at how long hasit been since you felt calm,
since you felt like you didn'thave to run, since you felt like
you could take a deep breath,how long has it been since you
were able to just sit in silenceand can you use some of those
questions that we mentionedearlier to help get you there?
(38:39):
But once you're in that restingstate, once you know that you
can meditate or you can do Reikior you can go on a shamanic
journey or whatever it is foryou, a lot of times we're left
with this well, that's great,but now, what?
Now?
Where's my intuition?
Now?
How do I know what my intuitionis, what it isn't, et cetera.
And we can go.
Based on what we talked about intoday's conversation of how
(39:01):
does it feel?
Can you feel it in your body?
And that's often the firstindicator for people is again
are you feeling that tension?
Are you feeling that anxiety?
That means that your mind istrying to do something that your
soul is not on board with.
Can you find the answer, theway to bring yourself back into
alignment with that?
You can feel it physically.
You know, is this a yes or isthis a no?
(39:23):
We've probably all heard thatwhen you have a hell yes moment,
you can feel it in your body.
That's your intuition comingthrough of yes, this is meant
for you.
But what I found is that it isreally difficult for people who
have been trained again to onlylisten to your thoughts, to only
be able to hear your mind.
It's really hard if we feellike we can't hear our intuition
(39:44):
, and so that's where, for me,soul speak really comes in,
because it's this modality thatI've probably worked on it with
hundreds of clients at thispoint, and every single one of
them has been able to use thatto go in and not only feel their
intuition, to not only havethose intuitive nudges, but to
actually hear clearly the voiceof their intuition.
(40:05):
And I think that's what's to me, that's why I'm so passionate
about this topic, is becauseit's you know, I love psychology
and I love the mind and I lovefiguring out how things work.
But to me it's this idea thatthat voice of our intuition is
just as accessible as the voiceof our mind.
With practice, you can hearexactly what your soul is saying
, just as clearly as you couldtell me what you're thinking
(40:27):
right now.
And I know that it's possiblebecause I've seen it happen with
students and with clients.
And how amazing would it be ifwe lived in a world where that
was the norm, where you couldsit in awareness of yourself and
say well, this is what my mindis thinking and this is what my
soul is saying.
And then you get to use yourfree will to choose.
Which one do you want to follow.
Can you follow your alignment?
(40:53):
Can you trust your intuition?
Because you can hear it asclearly as you can hear your
mind.
And that is absolutely possibleand it's accessible.
And so to me, that is really whyI'm so passionate about soul
speak, and I had somebody ask methe other day if you could only
have one spiritual tool, whatwould it be?
And it sounds cheesy, butthat's what it would be.
For me is soul speak, becausewhen we know how to connect to
(41:14):
our intuition, when we know howto have that voice of our
intuition rise up to meet us andwe understand that we're not
our mind, we're not even reallyfully our soul, so long as we're
in this human experience, weare the observer of both.
And because we are pureawareness, because we are that
consciousness, yeah, we can hearour thoughts and we can use
this tool and we can learn howto use that translator
effectively.
(41:34):
But it also means that we canhear our intuition and we can
hear that wisdom bubbling upfrom inside of us if we have the
technique and the tool to beable to do it.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
That's wonderful.
So, with soul speak, you knowcause I use so many other like
um, and I love soul speak of youknow, experienced it with you
and everything and um you know.
So for me, though, I go like Ilove tarot, I love communicating
with you know spirit in manydifferent ways.
What is like when you do soulspeak?
(42:07):
How do you bring people into it?
How do you connect with that?
Speaker 1 (42:14):
So, for me, with soul speak and this is again, this
is where I love it, becausetarot is amazing, right.
Oracle decks are amazing I'vegot a few myself Shamanic
journeys are amazing, usingcrystals and Reiki, and all of
these things are beautiful waysto connect with spirit.
And what I love about soulspeak is it's one of the only
ways that I have found asidefrom shamanic journeys, in a way
where you're going to your owninner wisdom, without a medium,
(42:36):
without something that a toolthat you're using outside of
yourself to be able to decipherit.
You're just going into your ownpure awareness, because, at the
end of the day, those answersare always going to be in
alignment with the greatest andhighest good for you.
Right, like people can come andtake our classes and ask us
what we think, but what we thinkis never going to be as an
(42:58):
alignment for that student, aswhat their soul has in store for
them, what their pool of wisdomhas available to them.
And so, in soul speak, it's thisprocess of recognizing again
that we are just awareness andthis process of kind of
de-identifying from our mind torealize that we're not our
thoughts.
Right, we know this frommeditation.
We can witness our thoughts andthat which we can witness.
(43:20):
We can't be so.
We're the observer of ourthoughts.
That also means that when wecan do that detachment, when we
can come into awareness, pureconsciousness, we can sink down
and deeper and into that core ofour being to find our soul, and
not even to just feel it, butwe can feel it, we can see it,
(43:42):
we can hear it, and these arethings that happen again and
again and again in soul speaksessions.
And it's fascinating because wedo have all of these tools
right.
Everyone in the spiritualcommunity has their favorite
tools that they use, whetherit's tarot or Reiki or crystals
or something completelydifferent.
But this is one of the few timesthat you actually go into your
intuition and can make those gutfeelings that we all have come
(44:05):
up with regularity, where it'snot just well, I hope my gut
comes through.
For me on this one, it's I knowlike.
I know like I know that at anypoint in time, if I have a
problem, if I have a question,if I feel out of alignment, I
know that I can go down into mysoul and receive that wisdom,
receive that connection, receivethat love and instantly come
back into alignment because I'mnot having to go outside of
(44:29):
myself to search for the answers.
I'm not having to go outside ofmyself to connect with spirit.
I'm connecting to the spiritthat's already within, and that
is an incredibly empoweringexperience, I think, to know
that not only can you hear yourmind, not only can you use this
tool, but also that you can tuneinto your soul.
You can hear that wisdom, youcan tap into the infinite just
(44:50):
by going into yourself.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
I think that's where like downloads come in.
It's just a differentterminology, but it is.
It's like that internal, justknowing of presence and answers.
And you know, this morning evenI was having some like I woke
up to a lot of downloads andthings and I'm like, okay, and
it literally is that you know,and I really hope that people
(45:14):
hear that and they want to jumpon a call with you or you know,
because those who can't do it,it's right there, you know it
literally.
I always say it's everything isone vibration away.
It's just us tapping into itand so being guided and led into
like having a conversation withtheir spirit, with their soul,
is going to be amazing for thosethat are really logical or up
(45:37):
in their head a lot and need tolearn how to come within.
So hopefully our listeners aregoing to hit you up on that,
because it's a really powerfulone to do for sure.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Yeah, and that's what I love about it too, is it's
not?
I always tell people when we dosoul speak or when we're
working with connecting you toyour intuition or receiving
those downloads or things, thatmy goal is that you don't have
to come back Like I don't wantyou to feel like you have to
talk to me, to talk to yourintuition.
Can we give you a tool where youcan do it on your own, where
you can connect to your soul,where you can receive those
(46:07):
answers?
And I love that the answers areone vibration away, because it
goes back to what we weretalking about of the mind as
that radio and as thattranslator.
It's like what frequency areyou tuned into right now?
Are you tuned in to thefrequency of your soul?
Can you hear the song your soulis singing?
And knowing that that isavailable to everyone in
(46:27):
whatever form, it is right,whether it's those downloads or
through soul speak, when you canactually talk and do kind of a
Q and a with your soul, which isamazing.
But I've I've seen it happenfor each and every person that
has come into session or intoone of our classes that it is
absolutely possible to calm yourmind, to drop in, to step into
alignment and to find the voiceof your soul.
(46:50):
And so if you guys don't knowwhat we're talking about and
you're wondering what the hecksoul speak, is on our podcast,
the previous conversation thatwe did, we did a demo with
Christine where I dropped herinto her soul and you can hear
her for this was, I think, hersecond time doing this with me,
second or third time and you canhear her translating her soul,
like the voice of her soul iscoming through, and you can hear
(47:11):
the difference in her voicebetween when she's speaking from
her mind and when she'sspeaking from her soul and the
profound nature of what wascoming up and through her.
So I highly recommend listeningto that.
If you need that little bit ofproof, right, if your mind needs
a little bit of proof that youcan connect to your soul in this
way, the voice of your soul iswaiting for you and in the
(47:32):
meantime, can you take thosesteps to start stepping into
alignment, to notice where arethe places where you feel
tension, where are the placeswhere you feel that anxiety,
where are the places where yourmind is telling a story and can
you start asking yourself how isthat different than the story?
My intuition is telling, how isthat story drawing me away from
(47:53):
peace instead of towards it?
How is it drawing me away fromtruth instead of towards it?
How can you tell when it comestime to make a decision?
Is the answer really loud andchaotic and proving something?
Then it's probably your mind.
Is it calm and deep and feellike it's coming from your belly
?
Then it's probably your mind.
Is it calm and deep and feellike it's coming from your belly
?
Then it's probably your soul.
And so if you're listening tothis and you're thinking, that's
(48:15):
great.
But again, how do I do it?
I would love to be able to hearmy intuition.
I would love to be able to hearmy soul.
I want to be able to know thatI have answers within me and be
able to help walk my mindthrough the process of letting
go of some of that control, sothat my intuition can start to
play a bigger role, so that itcan start to be my internal GPS
(48:36):
and I don't have to stay stuckwithin the limits of my mind or
what I've been trained to thinklife should look like.
I am doing a four-week SoulSpeak Masterclass, starting next
Wednesday, march 26th, and itwill be from 6 PM mountain time
to 7 PM mountain time or 8 PMEastern time to 9 PM Eastern
time.
So those of you who are joiningus for book club, you can just
(48:59):
hop on right after.
But it's going to be a fourweek masterclass where we dive
into not only just thepsychology and the theory of
what is the difference betweenthe mind versus the soul, diving
into things like cognitivedissonance and theories of
consciousness and what is yourawareness?
Why aren't we our thoughts?
Why aren't we our soul?
What are we in that in-between,how can we witness both?
(49:20):
But also really diving you into.
Let's get you to drop into yourintuition so that by the end of
the masterclass, not only haveyou heard the voice of your
intuition, not only have youdeveloped tools to be able to
connect to it regularly, butthat you are on your way to
hearing it as clearly as you canhear the voice of your mind.
So over the course of four weekswe'll dive into the theory of
(49:41):
soul speak.
We'll dive into how to identifyemotional beanbags or stuck
points and process thoseemotions so that you can free up
space to hear your intuitioneven more clearly.
We'll talk about how you cansee your soul.
So not just hear your soul, butwe'll do soul viewing, which is
an amazing exercise.
To take you even deeper, we'lltalk about the different ways to
(50:01):
communicate with your soul, thebest questions to ask, how to
find your own connection.
So we'll do.
Half of the classes will beteaching and learning and
pulling apart the theory and thetechnique and how to do it, and
then the other half will beexperience.
So we'll be taking youone-on-one, individually
throughout the class into thatspace of soul speak so that you
can hear your intuition, justlike Christine did on the demo.
(50:24):
So if you are interested inhearing the voice of your soul,
if you're interested in gettinga deeper connection to your
intuition so it's not just a,it's nice when it happens, but
it's not consistent, but you areconsistently hearing your
intuition you know that you haveaccess to those answers within
you.
You have this inner GPS thatyou can go down and ask
questions to, just like you canto a friend or to a parent.
(50:45):
This class is for you.
It's going to be four weeks,for an hour every Wednesday, and
we will have information on howyou can enroll for that coming
out in today's Monday email.
So if you haven't logged on toour newsletter yet, I highly
recommend you do so.
We'll also be sharing detailsover in our Shamanic Mystics
Facebook group so you can joinus there if you're interested in
(51:06):
enrolling.
It'll be a four-week masterclass, a little just beautiful taste
of how we can dive into ourintuition and, like I said
earlier, my goal with this classis that by the end of it, you
won't have to come back, thatyou will have this tool where
you can hear your intuition asclearly as you can hear your
mind, so that you know that youhave the answers within, you
know how to deal with blocks oremotions or bumps along the way
(51:27):
when they come up, and you canstart realigning to the voice of
your soul, so that your mindand your soul are singing the
same song and you get to witnessthe magic that happens in your
life.
When that happens and, like Isaid, I've done this with
probably hundreds of clients bynow and it's been completely
transformative for each andevery one of them Because, again
, can you imagine a world wherewe could all hear our soul as
(51:50):
clearly as we could hear ourmind?
And that's what I'm hoping andthat's what I know is going to
happen for those who join us inthe masterclass.
So, again, if you areinterested in joining us for
that, feel free to message me,join us in the Facebook group
for more information, keep aneye on your emails.
That will be starting onWednesday, march 26th and I hope
to see you there.
(52:11):
But until then, I hope that thisepisode has given you something
to not only think about butfeel into, that it has awakened
your intuition and given youthings to start understanding.
Where is that still quiet, calmvoice within you?
Where are the places where yourmind is pulling you away from
that, and how can you startcoming back into alignment?
How can you start coming backinto that, knowing that your
(52:33):
soul is there for you, that it'scalling for you?
That when you open yourself upand you let your mind release
that fear and release a littlebit of control, that magic is
waiting for you.
So we would love to hear yourtop takeaways over in the
Facebook group or send us amessage and we thank you.
Thank you for joining us, forthis conversation and until next
time, may you awaken to thewhispers of wisdom rising from
(52:57):
within.
Thanks for tuning in to today'sshow.
The Wisdom Rising podcast issponsored by Moon Rising
Shamanic Institute.
If you enjoyed this episode, besure to subscribe to the show
on your favorite podcasting appand be the first to know when we
release a new episode.
You can find us on Instagram,facebook, youtube and TikTok at
(53:23):
Moon Rising Institute or visitour website,
moonrisinginstitutecom to learnmore about our mission and find
future opportunities to connectwith our community of shamanic
mystics.
Once again, thank you forsharing space with us today and
until next time may you awakento the whispers of wisdom rising
from within.
It's time to remember your divine purpose and
limitless potential.
Welcome to Wisdom Rising, theofficial podcast of Moon Rising
Shamanic Institute.
Join shamanic Reikipractitioners Christine Rene,
isabel Wells and Chantel Ochoaas we guide you on a journey of
radical self-discovery andspiritual guidance.
(00:26):
Each week, we'll dance throughthe realms of shamanism,
mysticism, energy, healing andpersonal development to
illuminate your path to truehealing and self-sourced wisdom
Through weekly inspiredconversations and interviews
with leading spiritual andshamanic practitioners.
We are here to help youacknowledge, reconcile and
(00:49):
balance your energy so that youcan awaken to the whispers of
wisdom rising from within.
Hello, hello, my friends, andwelcome back to another episode
of the Wisdom Rising podcast.
I am so excited to be joinedwith Chantel Ochoa for today's
(01:13):
episode.
We're going to be diving intothe mind versus the intuition
and how to tell the difference.
This is probably one of thebiggest questions that we get
asked after how do I develop andlearn to trust my intuition?
The next question is often well, how do I know if it's my mind
or my intuition that I'm hearing, and how do I develop the trust
(01:34):
and the courage to be able tofollow my intuition once I know
that that's the voice that I'mhearing from?
So, in today's conversation,chantel and I dive into our own
perspectives around how to tellthe difference between your mind
and your intuition.
We give you some really amazingtips and techniques to decipher
if the message you're receivingis your mind versus your
(01:55):
intuition, and we also dive intothe importance of soul-led
living and at the very end, wespeak more about soul speak, the
intuition channeling modalitythat we've been talking about
for the last few weeks here onthe show to help you give your
intuition a voice that is asclear as the voice of your mind.
(02:17):
So, if you have been lovingthis content and you want to
dive even deeper into soul speak, if you've been asking yourself
well, how do I know if it is mymind or my intuition, or how do
I connect to my intuition?
How do I quiet the monkey mind?
How do I process emotions thatcome up?
How do I trust my intuition andactually take action on it?
(02:39):
How do I make it moreconsistent instead of just an
every now and then gut instinct?
All of those kinds of things Ifyou've been really interested
in diving deeper into yourintuition, living a soul-led
life, releasing your mind andusing it as the tool that it was
meant to be rather than feelinglike your anxious thoughts are
running your life, then I wouldalso love to invite you to join
(03:01):
me for my four-week soul speakmasterclass.
Classes start this Wednesday,march 26th if you're listening
to this, this week when it'sreleased.
Classes start this Wednesday at8 pm Eastern time.
We'll meet for four weeks, butif you can't make it live, or
you'd rather take this as aself-paced course, this
(03:21):
masterclass will be available asan evergreen class, meaning
that we're going to set up theclass in such a way that you can
watch the recordings and stillget the full benefit out of the
class.
Of course, we'd love to haveyou live because, while we're
going to be having instructiontime to learn about the soul,
learn about the intuition, learnabout the psychology of
(03:41):
cognitive dissonance from aspiritual perspective, learn how
to give your soul a voicethat's as clear as your mind and
release all of the doubt, weare also going to be having hot
seating demo time where you'regoing to get the chance to
workshop with me one-on-one, tohear your intuition, to bring
awareness to your own life abouthow you can integrate all of
(04:02):
this information.
So the class is going to be amix of teaching and actually
workshopping it and activelyintegrating it into your life,
and I would love to see youthere.
We already have so many amazingindividuals signed up, and this
course is a more intimateone-on-one kind of space, so
you'll get to join together witha small group of people.
You'll have a class chat aswell as access to the class
(04:25):
materials, and you'll be walkingthis path alongside other
amazing individuals who arelooking to connect to their soul
and their intuition more deeply.
I was speaking with a studentabout the class earlier this
morning and explaining thatreally, my vision and my goal
for this is that at the start ofthe class you'll come in and
maybe you feel like your mind isrunning your life, like you
don't know where your intuitionis taking you or what it sounds
(04:48):
like, or you wish that it couldjust be clearer and more obvious
.
Maybe you're wishing that lifecould be more simple and less
chaotic and by the end of theclass, we're going to walk the
full arc so that, instead ofliving our lives driven by our
minds and our anxieties, we knowhow to live our life from our
soul, how to connect to ourintuition so that it is that
(05:09):
primary source of guidance andwisdom in our lives and we know
how to get our mind on boardwith it, so we don't constantly
feel like we're fightingourselves, trying to live by our
soul, but fighting our mind.
We're all in alignment with ourown inherent wisdom and life
feels in flow again.
Life feels magical again.
So that is our goal with thisworkshop.
(05:30):
Like I said, classes start onWednesday, march 26th.
I would love to see you there,whether you join us live or you
listen to the recordings, thelink for this class will be in
the show notes and we would loveto see you there.
We have a one-time payment or atwo-part payment plan available
, so you can choose what feelsbest for you financially.
In addition, don't forget thatChantel has her Soul Contracts
(05:52):
Masterclass.
That has already started, but,just like my Soul Speak class,
Soul Contracts will also becomean evergreen course, meaning
that you can watch along withthe recording.
So if you're interested in that, the link will also be in the
show notes.
And finally, I do invite you tocome join me this May at the
Northeast Reiki Retreat takingplace up in the Andiridak
(06:14):
Mountains in New York.
I'm teaching both a pre retreatclass and giving a presentation
at the actual retreat.
So the Northeast Reiki Retreatis a fantastic opportunity to
come together with like-minded.
So the Northeast Reiki Retreatis a fantastic opportunity to
come together with like-mindedindividuals to learn about Reiki
and energy healing.
It is absolutely an incredibleexperience.
Christine and I went togetherlast year and it was one of the
(06:36):
highlights of my year.
It was just such a beautifultime to come together with
like-minded souls to learn, toexperience, to buy amazing
spiritual gifts.
They have vendors there.
Moon Rising will also be avendor offering free shamanic
reiki demonstrations as well.
So my pre-retreat class will bean introduction to shamanic
reiki.
It's six hours on May 1st andthen the first day of the actual
(07:01):
retreat is May 2nd.
The retreat runs from May 2ndto the 4th and it's up in Silver
Bay, new York, and it's anincredible experience.
I'll be speaking on May 3rdabout multidimensional healing
through the chakras and thenthroughout the retreat I'll have
a vendor table there withinformation about moon rising,
free demos and so much more.
So if you're interested incoming and hanging out with me
(07:23):
and other amazing spiritualindividuals up in Silver Bay,
new York, for a wonderfulrestorative experience and
conference, I highly recommendthat you come to the Northeast
Reiki Retreat.
Once again, those dates are May2nd to the 4th, or you can join
me for my pre-retreat class onMay 1st.
You can find all of theinformation about this amazing
event at the link in the shownotes, but please note that
(07:46):
registration does close on April1st.
So if you're wanting to join us, the time to register is now,
and if you have any questions onthis, feel free to reach out to
me.
With all of that said, we're soexcited about these amazing
events and classes that we havecoming up here for Moon Rising,
with many more to come.
So stay tuned and be sure tokeep an eye on our Shamanic
(08:07):
Mystics Facebook group, if youaren't already a part of that,
as well as joining us on ourFacebook page, our Instagram,
checking out our YouTube channeland so much more.
We would love to interact withyou on all of our platforms and,
of course, before we dive intotoday's episode, don't forget to
subscribe and share thispodcast so that we can reach
more spiritual and shamanicseekers just like you.
(08:29):
Now, with all of that said,let's dive in to today's show.
Welcome, welcome back toanother amazing conversation.
I am joined with Chantel todayand we are diving into mind
versus intuition and how.
You know the difference.
And this is such a passiontopic for both of us.
(08:50):
Here at Moon Rising, we arereally passionate about helping
people come back into connectionwith their intuition because we
know, like we know, like weknow, as Christine would say,
that all of the answers that weneed are within and are in our
intuition.
And that's probably the biggestquestion that people ask when
they join our community is well,how can I develop my intuition,
how do I strengthen thatconnection?
(09:12):
But a lot of times that questionis really closely followed by
well, how do I know?
I didn't just make that up howdo I know if it's my mind or my
intuition?
How do I know which voice I'msupposed to listen to?
Because I think we all have alittle bit of this push and pull
in us towards that intuitive,all-knowing inner feeling, our
gut feelings a lot of peoplecall them and then our mind,
(09:34):
these thoughts that we hear allthe time, that we get caught up
in and it feels like we can'tquite pull ourselves out of the
stories or the conditioning orthe shoulds or the what-ifs, and
so I'm really hoping that intoday's conversation we can shed
a little bit of light onexactly how can you start to, in
your own life, really determinewhere's your intuition, where's
(09:55):
your mind, and give you sometangible tools and techniques so
that you can not only tell thedifference but really start that
journey of working towardstrusting your intuition, walking
with your intuition and lettingit be the GPS of your life?
So this is if you guys watchedour previous conversation, we
did a demo on soul speak withChristine and we dove a little
bit into the idea of mind versussoul or mind versus intuition
(10:19):
in that conversation.
So if you haven't listened tothat, I highly recommend you
doing that.
But this is really where we'regoing to kick ourselves off
today is what exactly is themind and what exactly is the
intuition?
Speaker 2 (10:31):
So, chantal, I'd love for you to kind of kick us off
with your thoughts on thatconnecting to our intuition and
letting, like you said, lettingour guides and our intuition be
our GPS in life, because that'swhen you know you're truly on
the right path.
And I know, with the questionof how do I know?
(10:52):
It's not me making it up or isthat really my intuition coming
through?
And so, if you think about howmuch you have to think in the
process of thought to createanything memories, thoughts,
creating content, whatever it isit takes a lot of work and when
you're tuning into yourintuition, there's no work, it
(11:12):
comes, it flows, you receive it.
And so I think, when you canreally step into that moment and
embody it and just let it flow,you are being.
We are constantly being talkedto, we are constantly receiving
messages, but our mind wants toblock it.
Our mind wants to say no,that's that's you, you're
(11:33):
creating it.
And it gets you into thislogical thought process and says
that's not really happening.
And in the background, spiritsis still doing the nudging.
Yes, it is.
You know, background spirits isstill doing the nudging yes, it
is.
And so it is tuning into whatis flowing for you, versus how
are you having to mechanicallymake it happen?
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Oh, I love that and I love that way of looking at the
mind, because often what I find, especially in the spiritual
community, when we start goingthrough our spiritual awakening
or we start realizing that maybethere's more to life than what
we've been taught, there is thatbox that we get put in.
We really start to realize thatas a society, as a culture,
we've really been conditioned tobelieve that the mind is the be
(12:15):
all, end all.
We live in a world right nowthat really thrives on intellect
.
Can you make it logic?
Can you prove it with science?
Can you find the end of theequation through mathematics?
There's this very heavy focuson can you think your way from
the beginning question to theend answer, and if you can't,
then it's not real.
It's kind of the reigning ideathat we see in our culture right
(12:38):
now, and so, as such, we'vereally started to give a lot of
power to our minds, when itwasn't designed to be that way.
There's this really famousquote that is often attributed
to Einstein and it's actuallynot Einstein's quote, but a lot
of people think it was and it'ssomething about how the
intuition was made to be themaster and the mind the servant.
(12:59):
But somewhere along the waythey've switched.
The mind is now the master andthe intuition is the servant.
And that's such a poignantpoint to bring into this
conversation today, because whatends up happening is we feel
like our mind should be able tohave answers, that our mind
should be able to come up withthe end idea that we're looking
for, that if we have a problem,the mind should be able to solve
(13:20):
it.
But that's not at all what themind was ever designed to be.
Our mind is.
I have two main ways of lookingat the mind, and the first is as
a translator.
Our mind is kind of like thisenergetic translator for our
human physical experience.
We don't have a mind the waythat we think of it right now.
We don't have an ego or a mindwhen we're just in the spiritual
(13:43):
realm.
We have consciousness, we havespirit, but we don't have a mind
.
And so what exactly is a mindis really important to
understand when we're trying todecide is it my mind or is it my
intuition we have to know whatwe're looking at first, and so
when we're talking about themind, typically what we think of
is the thinking part ofourselves, right?
Sometimes we associate it withthat.
(14:04):
I am X Y Z.
Whatever the X Y Z is theidentity maker, the problem
solver, the thinker.
If I asked you right now whatyou're thinking, you could
probably tell me because we'reso in tune with our thoughts and
we believe that because we canthink, because we do have the
capacity to, like you weresaying, mechanically pull things
apart and go from a question toan answer that it should be
(14:26):
able to do that all the timeuntil we get to a question or a
choice or a life experience thatour mind doesn't have the
answers to.
And then we feel like we failed.
Right, a lot of our self-worthcomes from.
Do I feel like I have theanswer?
Do I feel like I have theability to solve this problem?
And if we don't, we feel likewe're floundering, and that's
because we are working with avery limited tool.
(14:48):
We're trying to take somethingthat was only ever designed to
be a tool for us to use in ourhuman experience and make it the
constructor of our humanexperience.
And so what I mean by this is,if you think about a radio, for
example, right, there are soundwaves in the air.
They're always there.
You just can't hear them untilyou have the radio, and the
radio can then translate thosesound waves into something that
(15:10):
you can hear, right Into themusic, into the NPR station,
whatever it is for you.
Our mind is like that radio.
It takes that energeticexperience that is preceding all
of this physical stuff right.
We all know that the universeis energy.
When we go beyond the physical,we get to the spiritual, to the
energetic.
And the mind was given to us asthis tool that was supposed to
(15:31):
be able to help us translatethat energy into something that
we can understand, that would beable to help us grasp at least
a little bit the concept of theuniverse while we were here in
human form.
But it was also designed as anaction maker.
It was never supposed to be thething that gave us the idea.
It was never supposed to be thething that gave us the answer.
(15:51):
It's not a generator, it's atranslator.
Another way of thinking aboutthis that I tell our students
all the time is it's like yourmind is an Excel spreadsheet.
You can put all of this data inthe Excel spreadsheet, right,
and you can run the equations.
You can do the sums and theaverage and all the functions
and get a new number, but isthat number actually brand new?
No, it's generated based on allof the data that you've put
(16:13):
into it so far, and that'sexactly what our mind does.
Our mind is this storehouse ofevery experience, memory,
thought, belief that we've hadup to this point and in order to
keep us safe, like we've talkedabout so many times here on the
show.
In order to keep us safe, ourmind, our subconscious, is
constantly trying to formulateprojections of the future.
(16:34):
Based on what data it alreadyhas saying well, this happened
in the past.
How can we avoid that in thefuture?
Right, that's what triggers are.
Everybody's familiar withtriggers where something in our
present is reminding us ofsomething in our past, and so
our body goes into a panicresponse because we're trying to
stop it from happening again.
That's what our mind was for.
It was this way of looking atwell, what's happened in the
(16:55):
past and how can we use that totake action in the future?
It's a fantastic tool until westart deciding that it should be
the thing guiding our lives,because what's going to happen?
If the only voice we ever listento is our thoughts, and the
only voice we ever listen to isour mind we're only ever going
to play out our old patternsover and over, and over and over
(17:15):
again, because the mind is notcapable.
It's not, it's not capable ofproducing anything new.
It's capable of producingprojections of the future based
on the past experiences, andthat's it.
And so, as we get into thisspace where we live in a society
that is so heavily based onwhat our minds can do,
(17:39):
ultimately, I think that's whywe find ourselves feeling so
limited and so exhausted and soburnt out and so lost, not only
as a culture, but alsoindividually.
I think everybody, especiallylike we were talking about
earlier, with some of thateclipse energy that we've been
having that feeling ofdisconnect often comes when we
are more connected to our mindthan we are to our soul.
(18:01):
Because when we're connected toour mind, when we're using our
mind to make all of ourdecisions and help us take
action on what we're supposed todo next and try and find all of
the answers, we're trying to doinfinite functions with a
limited resource, and that'sexhausting, because that wasn't
what the mind was intended to do.
It was intended to be that datacollector that looked at all of
(18:22):
the information, took theinsights and the understanding
from the information, took theinsights and the understanding
from the soul, from the infinite, from that spiritual pool that
we have that exists beyond thephysical.
It was meant to be able to takethat infinite resource and
translate it into something thatwould help us navigate this
human life.
It was supposed to be thisco-creator, but we have taken
(18:43):
its partner out of the equationbecause we've become so
separated and so distanced fromour intuition.
And so I love what you weresaying about where can you find
that alignment and that flow, sothat you're not forcing it?
Because one of the things thatmany people don't realize that
we bump up against in our dailylives is we have cognitive
dissonance.
Right, we have thepsychological idea of what
(19:05):
cognitive dissonance is, but ifyou look at it from a spiritual
perspective, there's a kind ofcognitive dissonance.
That is when our mind is tryingto do one thing and our soul or
our intuition is pulling us ina different direction.
Because, like you said, we arespiritual beings, we are
connected to the flow of life,we are connected to the flow of
energy, we have this inherentknowing of what is right for us
(19:28):
in each moment, but because werely so heavily on our minds,
often that river of movement andmomentum and passion and
purpose is muted and we can'thear it as much.
And so our mind can be off,trying to get us to do one thing
in life while our soul is stillon the back and just steadily
pushing us toward our highesttruth, our highest purpose.
(19:48):
And then we feel torn becauseit's like why isn't anything
working?
Why am I full of questions?
Why does the unknown feel soscary?
Why do I feel so exhausted?
Because your mind is in oneplace and your soul is in
another?
But when you can come into thatalignment, when you can do the
work to be able to hear yourintuition, to be able to
understand the constructs thatyour mind is operating on, what
(20:11):
are your limiting beliefs, whatare your experiences, what are
you thinking?
How is your brain trying tokeep you safe, and you can work
through those to what I like tocall reconnect the wires, so
that your mind is connected toyour soul and vice versa, you
step back into that co-creativeenergy.
That's really where we weremeant to be, what we like to
(20:36):
call alignment, when our mindand our soul are operating
towards the same goal andthey're moving in the same way,
and when we're in that space,that feeling of work doesn't
exist, that feeling of tensiondoesn't exist, that feeling of
tension doesn't exist, thatfeeling of well, what do I do
next?
I don't know, and that's notokay.
That anxiety doesn't existbecause we are in alignment mind
, body and soul towards thatflow of life, towards that
(20:58):
understanding of where theinfinite is taking us in this
physical realm.
And so I think, when we canlook at it that way, I find that
that's a really powerful placeto begin this work of
deciphering.
Where is your mind, where isyour intuition?
Because then we get to see themind not as a burden, not as
this thing that keeps us runningin circles and makes us feel
(21:20):
anxious, and has all theselimiting beliefs and is trying
to keep us safe but failing, andwe get so frustrated at our
minds.
But if we can look at it as atool of what?
If your mind was here to helpyou translate the words of your
intuition, to help you connectto your soul into the infinite
and translate that into theactions and the ways that you
move through the world?
If your mind was a tool, howwould that change the way you
(21:42):
look at it?
So I love that you brought upthat flow of alignment, because
that's such a powerful, simpleplace to start is does this feel
easy, or in flow, or does itnot?
Because if the answer is no,then your mind is telling a
different story.
It's running a different scriptthan what your intuition is
wanting you to play out.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
I really like that.
You're talking about the replayof what our mind does too,
because if you look at history,you know our history is proving
what happens when we run fromthe operating function of just
our mind, our thought beinglogical structures, all of it.
You know our like, literallyhistory is absent of a lot of
(22:24):
intuition and connecting to thefeminine energy and running very
masculine.
And so the replay is like youwere saying, how our mind can
only project what is happening,what will happen in the future,
based off of our past.
And that's kind of a scaryplace to be, because then we're
never going to create newexperiences in our life if we're
(22:46):
always chasing the tale of theold ones.
And if that's anything, ifthat's grief, if that's sadness,
if that's loss of jobs, loss ofopportunities, whatever it is,
we create that by the thoughtsthat we put out, how our energy
is projected, and so theuniverse literally is saying yes
to us, based off of ourfrequency.
And so if we're always puttingout fear, if we're always
(23:09):
putting out the what, ifs andthe shouldas and the couldas,
then the universe is always likeyes, let's show that to you,
right, and so that's why a lotof people I feel they get.
We become trapped in periods ofour life where there is no
growth because our mind is inthis perpetual cycle and then we
forget to tune in and listen toour intuition and to the nudges
(23:33):
that are saying hey, becausethat's the softer voice and if
you're not paying attention andhaving awareness to that softer
voice and the mind is screamingand the mind is now triggering
the emotions and the emotionsare on override and the thoughts
are on override.
That is way more powerful inthis physical realm than our
intuition is.
Because that you have to gointo a place of silence, you
(23:56):
have to be, you have to becentered with yourself, you have
to meditate, you have to beintrospective, and not everyone
does that.
A lot of people are actuallyhave fear around being in
silence.
You know, there's plenty oftimes I do ceremony in person
and and I'll say, okay, we'rejust going to meditate, we're
just going to sit in silence,and people are like what?
(24:17):
Wait?
You see them have a physicalresponse and start stirring in
their chair because they don'teven want to know what the
silence of their mind has to say.
And I'm like you're going tolisten to your intuition, you're
going to listen to your spirit.
What does it have to tell you?
And set that intention ofwhatever question you have that
you are seeking answers for,because the mind isn't always
(24:39):
going to give it to you.
The mind is the doer.
It's going to tell you go out,go do this, do that, da, da, da
da.
The intuition is going to showyou, it's going to show you an
easier way to do it.
It's going to give answers thatthe mind can't create.
So when it's like, how do youknow it?
Like I said in the beginning,if you're creating all the
answers, you're not in yourintuitive nudges, you're not
(25:00):
listening to that voice.
And so it really is aninvitation to go within and to
sit and be silent with yourself,Even if it's something simple
like burning sage or burningpolo, or you know playing bowls
or just playing.
You know some kind of frequencymusic, you know.
Listen to what is calling you.
(25:21):
And if you're always stuck inyour head, ask yourself why?
Why am I always in my head?
What am I afraid of?
What do I feel is always goingto come forward for me?
If I am to let the mind shutdown a little bit and tune into
my intuition and let that justhappen.
Let that grow, let a new gardenin your life start to be
(25:42):
abundant to you, and it'samazing what can show up for us,
absolutely.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
And I love that point that you made at the end,
because I think there really issomething to say for how
attached we get to our minds andit's not.
That's not a bad thing, it'snot that we're doing anything
wrong.
It is again the way that we'vebeen raised, the way that we've
constructed our society forhundreds and thousands of years
is to be really attached to ourminds.
But that means that when thetime comes where we get to this
(26:11):
point and we realize that themind is fallible, it's limited,
that living life only in tunewith our mind doesn't feel right
.
And I think that's really whereprobably everyone listening to
this if this is the topic thatsparked your interest has
probably had that moment wherethey're stuck in the hamster
wheel of anxiety, or you'restuck in a limiting belief and
(26:31):
you can't get out of it, oryou've done everything quote,
unquote right the way you should, according to how society has
laid things out, and your lifedoesn't feel fulfilling.
And you realize that when I'mjust living from my mind, from
this list of to-do lists andshoulds and what ifs, and I'm
logicking everything out and I'mdoing that mechanical work of
making everything happen, notonly is it exhausting but it's
(26:54):
also not fulfilling.
And this is where, from ashamanic perspective, we go back
to that idea of there's thisreally beautiful understanding
in a lot of the traditionalshamanic ways of teaching that
soul wasn't a given.
Not that not everybody has asoul, but that not everybody
connects to it in this lifetime.
That our ability to witness, toconnect to our soul, was
(27:18):
something that we had to searchfor, something that we had to
work a little bit at in order tobe able to connect to it.
It's not just there, becauseit's there, and this is really
such a powerful idea that Ithink we're all coming to right
now that, again, from a shamanicperspective, in a lot of ways
(27:38):
our society right now, ourculture, would be viewed as
insane in those traditionalshamanic perspectives because we
are so separated from nature,we are so separated from our
soul.
But what that means is not onlydo we have the opportunity to
bridge that gap, but it meansthat when we're standing on the
other side, when we've beenraised to be connected with our
mind, when we've been raised tofear anything that's not
provable, when we've been raisedto think that anything that we
(28:00):
can't see or pull out of anequation or see with a
microscope isn't real.
The idea of stepping beyond yourmind and trusting your
intuition is terrifying becauseit is this unseeable, unknowable
force.
And even if you've had gutinstincts, even if every person
has had a moment where they knewI need to turn right here
(28:22):
instead of left, or I need to goback into that coffee shop so I
can talk to this person, or youknow what, this doesn't feel
right.
I'm leaving.
Everybody has had that moment.
But it doesn't matter because,no matter what to the mind,
letting go of control is scarybecause when that's what it's
done for its entire life, whenthat's what we've been trained
to believe will keep us safe,will keep society functioning,
(28:45):
will keep us from being viewedas crazy, will, whatever it is,
it's scary the idea of lettinggo of control because ultimately
, that's what we're asking ourmind to do.
When we want to step into theintuition is say there's more
than my mind here, there's morethan what I'm seeing and I'm
ready to go after it.
But that means that the mindhas to take a step back and if
(29:06):
we're really attached, if wereally identify with our minds,
that's like asking us to let goof a little bit of identity, to
let go of a little bit ofcontrol.
And so if you're thinking aboutthis idea of connecting to your
intuition, but you kind of findyourself going halfway in,
halfway out, like maybe you takea step towards stressing your
intuition and then you back outand oh, it didn't work, or that
(29:27):
was too scary, or it was toohard, or you just find yourself
slipping back into your mentalpatterns, asking yourself what
is keeping you attached to yourmind?
What's the story that you'retelling yourself?
Do you truly fully believe thatyour intuition knows more than
your mind does?
Do you truly fully believe thatthere is a source greater than
you of information or love?
(29:48):
And that's really when we'retalking about the difference
between the mind and theintuition.
That's what we get to is themind knows how to ask the
questions right.
It knows how to do thecalculations, it knows how to
make those projections that wewere talking about.
Your intuition is the part thathas the answers, because it is
that piece of the divine within.
Whatever you want to call that,whether it's God, universe,
source, spirit, all that is Tao,whatever it is for you that all
(30:12):
that is-ness, it's that littlepiece of it that is in you, that
essence of you, that is thespiritual being having this
human experience.
And when we connect to thatplace, it has all of the answers
.
Because it is all of theanswers, it has all of the love
because it is all of the love,it has no need to rush or try or
(30:35):
strive or be anxious or worry,because it knows in the deepest,
most pure way that everythingwill be okay.
It knows what happened beforeand what will happen next,
because it is all that is.
And so this is one of thebiggest ways that I tell people
you can find the differencebetween your mind and your
(30:55):
intuition is your mind is alwaysgoing to make things
complicated.
It's always going to feel likeit's moving fast, that it has a
lot to say, that it can show youexactly how you're going to get
from point A to point B.
If it feels like something'sbeing proven with this thought
or this story or this answer,most likely it's coming from
your mind, because, again, yourmind, as that Excel spreadsheet,
(31:16):
wants to show its work.
It wants to be able to say well, this happened in the past, so
here's what's going to happen inthe future and here's the
actions we're going to take toavoid that.
It has this beautiful storylinewhich, again, can be really
helpful.
But when we're trying to tuneinto our intuition, that's how
the mind is going to feel.
It's going to feel really fastand a little bit chaotic and
oftentimes it is rooted in fearor anxiety, the choices that our
(31:40):
mind makes, especially asadults.
When we've been trained for themind to act in that way, to
take our past and project itinto the future, been trained
for the mind to act in that wayto take our past and project it
into the future, it's going toact from fear because it's
trying to keep us safe.
But that idea of keeping ussafe means that we are in danger
.
To our mind, right.
But our intuition, it is thatstillness, it is that knowing
(32:02):
and that calm and that peace.
It is that moment, whether it'swhen you're walking in nature
and you feel yourself relaxed oryou're meditating and there's
that depth inside of you that'smore than what you notice in
your waking life, or it's asyou're falling asleep and it
just kind of fills you up.
It is that all that is-ness,and it is so simple and so
(32:22):
succinct and so clear, andoftentimes that is why it is so
hard to listen to, because itfeels too simple, it feels too
easy, it feels too quiet.
There's often this thought whenwe go from trusting our mind,
which has all of the stories,and improve all of the things
and do all of this and ask allthe questions, and it knows
exactly what to say and it has20 words where five would do
(32:46):
when we go from that tolistening to the intuition,
which is soft and simple andoftentimes as clear as a yes or
a no or even just a knowing inour body, we feel like it can't
possibly be true, that it can'tbe.
If it's so succinct, if it's sogentle, if it's so quiet, it
can't be that powerful, it can'tpossibly be right, it can't be
(33:08):
more than our mind.
And so we back away from it andnoticing in that gap, where is
that fear coming from?
What's that story for you?
What is the belief that you'reholding onto?
That's keeping you fromtrusting your intuition.
Because the thing is, youwouldn't be listening to this
conversation if you didn'talready know what your intuition
was telling you, and that's theother thing.
(33:29):
It's not like we can turn ourintuitions off.
We all always know exactly whatour intuition is telling us to
do in every moment we just kindof live in this state of chronic
denial because we've beenraised to act that way, not
because we've done something bad, not because we're trying to
run from our soul, but justbecause that's how life is.
But we are constantly in thisstate of denial and I always
(33:52):
tell my students when they cometo me and they're like well, I
just don't know what to do and Ijust feel so torn.
And it's like you wouldn't feeltorn if you didn't already know.
You wouldn't have that sense oftension if you didn't already
know here's what your mind issaying you should do.
And here's what your mind issaying you should do.
And here's what your intuitionis saying you should do.
You wouldn't feel stuck, youwouldn't feel frustrated, you
wouldn't feel anxious If therewasn't part of you that was
(34:15):
saying there's more to this thanwhat your mind is seeing.
There's more to this situationthan this choice you're about to
make.
And so that is.
It can almost be a comfort thatthe fact that we're having that
tension or that frustration orthat anxiety or whatever it is
for you, that feeling ofseparation, means that you
inherently know there'ssomething that you're separated
from, which means you're alreadyconnected to your intuition.
(34:37):
You've just got to find whatthat belief or that fear is.
That's keeping you fromdropping down.
That's keeping you from beingconnected.
That's keeping you fromdropping down.
That's keeping you from beingconnected.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
That's keeping you from getting into that alignment
.
Yeah, I wrote down why do wetrust chaos over easy?
It's like we.
It literally is throughconditioning and life and trauma
and just life.
You know, we've come to thisplace where we will trust in the
chaos and complication versuswhat's easy and what's in flow.
And I think because there's astigma of if you are, if life is
(35:13):
easy, then it's lazy or it'snot active.
You know that kind of stuff andit's really not what that is.
I'm at in a phase in my liferight now where I'm actually
fully embracing, embodying whatit means to do self-care and to
let life flow versus alwaysgoing against it.
(35:33):
You know, I've always been inthis fight or flight energy of
you know I'm the doer and I'mthe single mom and I'm this and
that, and now I'm like you knowI can be in the flow and it is
such a different shift.
But it's amazing because evenif things are coming at me, I
take it in a way that's justlike okay, you know, it's just
easier for me to do.
I just finished a one yearprogram with natural mysticism,
(35:56):
a class, and she says let yourfallen, fall in love with your
intuition so much that your egoor your mind follows it like a
puppy dog, and I was like youknow, that's kind of cool, cause
it's like, yeah, just be inyour intuitive mind or your
intuitive energy, so that yourmind just flows and follows it
and it wants the answers fromyour intuition as well.
(36:18):
But for you, what is somethingthat like for people that want
to know how they can connectwith their intuition and have a
spiritual tool that helps themget there?
What is something that yourecommend?
Speaker 1 (36:31):
That's a great question, and I think this is
where, again, this is everythingthat we teach at Moon Rising,
because this is really thecornerstone of everything that
we do, whether it's shamanicwork or Reiki or just living a
spiritual life that connectionto your intuition is paramount.
It's vital to be able to doingthis work because our mind isn't
(36:53):
connected to the spiritual.
Our mind is not spiritual inany way, shape or form.
It's not.
It's a translator, it's thatExcel spreadsheet, it's a tool.
And so when we're playing inthe spirit realm, when we're
connecting with Reiki orshamanism or doing something
like soul speak, we are playingin the spiritual, which means we
are connected to our soul.
(37:14):
And I love that you brought upthat idea of sympathetic versus
parasympathetic, because that isoften the ultimate answer when
we're asking how do you know,how do you switch into an
intuitive space of if you'rerunning around and you're
stressed and you're caught inanxiety and you're moving really
quickly and your sympatheticnervous system is activated and
you're going, going, going, itis not possible to deeply tune
(37:36):
into your intuition in thatspace?
Can your intuition rise to meetyou when you need it Absolutely
?
Can spirit find ways to get youmessages when you need it most
Absolutely.
But if we're talking aboutreally developing and tuning
into your intuition, it doesrequire us, like you were saying
at the beginning, to be in thatcalm, open, meditative state.
(37:57):
Because, again, that idea ofchaos, that idea of anxiety,
that idea of fear is mind made.
It doesn't exist in the soul.
The soul doesn't know fear, itdoesn't know separation, it
doesn't know anxiety, because itis all that is.
And so, in order to meet it, inorder to find our intuition, we
have to find a way to calmourselves, to be in that
(38:17):
parasympathetic rest and digestnervous system state.
And that's often step one isjust looking at where's your
nervous system, at how long hasit been since you felt calm,
since you felt like you didn'thave to run, since you felt like
you could take a deep breath,how long has it been since you
were able to just sit in silenceand can you use some of those
questions that we mentionedearlier to help get you there?
(38:39):
But once you're in that restingstate, once you know that you
can meditate or you can do Reikior you can go on a shamanic
journey or whatever it is foryou, a lot of times we're left
with this well, that's great,but now, what?
Now?
Where's my intuition?
Now?
How do I know what my intuitionis, what it isn't, et cetera.
And we can go.
Based on what we talked about intoday's conversation of how
(39:01):
does it feel?
Can you feel it in your body?
And that's often the firstindicator for people is again
are you feeling that tension?
Are you feeling that anxiety?
That means that your mind istrying to do something that your
soul is not on board with.
Can you find the answer, theway to bring yourself back into
alignment with that?
You can feel it physically.
You know, is this a yes or isthis a no?
(39:23):
We've probably all heard thatwhen you have a hell yes moment,
you can feel it in your body.
That's your intuition comingthrough of yes, this is meant
for you.
But what I found is that it isreally difficult for people who
have been trained again to onlylisten to your thoughts, to only
be able to hear your mind.
It's really hard if we feellike we can't hear our intuition
(39:44):
, and so that's where, for me,soul speak really comes in,
because it's this modality thatI've probably worked on it with
hundreds of clients at thispoint, and every single one of
them has been able to use thatto go in and not only feel their
intuition, to not only havethose intuitive nudges, but to
actually hear clearly the voiceof their intuition.
(40:05):
And I think that's what's to me, that's why I'm so passionate
about this topic, is becauseit's you know, I love psychology
and I love the mind and I lovefiguring out how things work.
But to me it's this idea thatthat voice of our intuition is
just as accessible as the voiceof our mind.
With practice, you can hearexactly what your soul is saying
, just as clearly as you couldtell me what you're thinking
(40:27):
right now.
And I know that it's possiblebecause I've seen it happen with
students and with clients.
And how amazing would it be ifwe lived in a world where that
was the norm, where you couldsit in awareness of yourself and
say well, this is what my mindis thinking and this is what my
soul is saying.
And then you get to use yourfree will to choose.
Which one do you want to follow.
Can you follow your alignment?
(40:53):
Can you trust your intuition?
Because you can hear it asclearly as you can hear your
mind.
And that is absolutely possibleand it's accessible.
And so to me, that is really whyI'm so passionate about soul
speak, and I had somebody ask methe other day if you could only
have one spiritual tool, whatwould it be?
And it sounds cheesy, butthat's what it would be.
For me is soul speak, becausewhen we know how to connect to
(41:14):
our intuition, when we know howto have that voice of our
intuition rise up to meet us andwe understand that we're not
our mind, we're not even reallyfully our soul, so long as we're
in this human experience, weare the observer of both.
And because we are pureawareness, because we are that
consciousness, yeah, we can hearour thoughts and we can use
this tool and we can learn howto use that translator
effectively.
(41:34):
But it also means that we canhear our intuition and we can
hear that wisdom bubbling upfrom inside of us if we have the
technique and the tool to beable to do it.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
That's wonderful.
So, with soul speak, you knowcause I use so many other like
um, and I love soul speak of youknow, experienced it with you
and everything and um you know.
So for me, though, I go like Ilove tarot, I love communicating
with you know spirit in manydifferent ways.
What is like when you do soulspeak?
(42:07):
How do you bring people into it?
How do you connect with that?
Speaker 1 (42:14):
So, for me, with soul speak and this is again, this
is where I love it, becausetarot is amazing, right.
Oracle decks are amazing I'vegot a few myself Shamanic
journeys are amazing, usingcrystals and Reiki, and all of
these things are beautiful waysto connect with spirit.
And what I love about soulspeak is it's one of the only
ways that I have found asidefrom shamanic journeys, in a way
where you're going to your owninner wisdom, without a medium,
(42:36):
without something that a toolthat you're using outside of
yourself to be able to decipherit.
You're just going into your ownpure awareness, because, at the
end of the day, those answersare always going to be in
alignment with the greatest andhighest good for you.
Right, like people can come andtake our classes and ask us
what we think, but what we thinkis never going to be as an
(42:58):
alignment for that student, aswhat their soul has in store for
them, what their pool of wisdomhas available to them.
And so, in soul speak, it's thisprocess of recognizing again
that we are just awareness andthis process of kind of
de-identifying from our mind torealize that we're not our
thoughts.
Right, we know this frommeditation.
We can witness our thoughts andthat which we can witness.
(43:20):
We can't be so.
We're the observer of ourthoughts.
That also means that when wecan do that detachment, when we
can come into awareness, pureconsciousness, we can sink down
and deeper and into that core ofour being to find our soul, and
not even to just feel it, butwe can feel it, we can see it,
(43:42):
we can hear it, and these arethings that happen again and
again and again in soul speaksessions.
And it's fascinating because wedo have all of these tools
right.
Everyone in the spiritualcommunity has their favorite
tools that they use, whetherit's tarot or Reiki or crystals
or something completelydifferent.
But this is one of the few timesthat you actually go into your
intuition and can make those gutfeelings that we all have come
(44:05):
up with regularity, where it'snot just well, I hope my gut
comes through.
For me on this one, it's I knowlike.
I know like I know that at anypoint in time, if I have a
problem, if I have a question,if I feel out of alignment, I
know that I can go down into mysoul and receive that wisdom,
receive that connection, receivethat love and instantly come
back into alignment because I'mnot having to go outside of
(44:29):
myself to search for the answers.
I'm not having to go outside ofmyself to connect with spirit.
I'm connecting to the spiritthat's already within, and that
is an incredibly empoweringexperience, I think, to know
that not only can you hear yourmind, not only can you use this
tool, but also that you can tuneinto your soul.
You can hear that wisdom, youcan tap into the infinite just
(44:50):
by going into yourself.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
I think that's where like downloads come in.
It's just a differentterminology, but it is.
It's like that internal, justknowing of presence and answers.
And you know, this morning evenI was having some like I woke
up to a lot of downloads andthings and I'm like, okay, and
it literally is that you know,and I really hope that people
(45:14):
hear that and they want to jumpon a call with you or you know,
because those who can't do it,it's right there, you know it
literally.
I always say it's everything isone vibration away.
It's just us tapping into itand so being guided and led into
like having a conversation withtheir spirit, with their soul,
is going to be amazing for thosethat are really logical or up
(45:37):
in their head a lot and need tolearn how to come within.
So hopefully our listeners aregoing to hit you up on that,
because it's a really powerfulone to do for sure.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Yeah, and that's what I love about it too, is it's
not?
I always tell people when we dosoul speak or when we're
working with connecting you toyour intuition or receiving
those downloads or things, thatmy goal is that you don't have
to come back Like I don't wantyou to feel like you have to
talk to me, to talk to yourintuition.
Can we give you a tool where youcan do it on your own, where
you can connect to your soul,where you can receive those
(46:07):
answers?
And I love that the answers areone vibration away, because it
goes back to what we weretalking about of the mind as
that radio and as thattranslator.
It's like what frequency areyou tuned into right now?
Are you tuned in to thefrequency of your soul?
Can you hear the song your soulis singing?
And knowing that that isavailable to everyone in
(46:27):
whatever form, it is right,whether it's those downloads or
through soul speak, when you canactually talk and do kind of a
Q and a with your soul, which isamazing.
But I've I've seen it happenfor each and every person that
has come into session or intoone of our classes that it is
absolutely possible to calm yourmind, to drop in, to step into
alignment and to find the voiceof your soul.
(46:50):
And so if you guys don't knowwhat we're talking about and
you're wondering what the hecksoul speak, is on our podcast,
the previous conversation thatwe did, we did a demo with
Christine where I dropped herinto her soul and you can hear
her for this was, I think, hersecond time doing this with me,
second or third time and you canhear her translating her soul,
like the voice of her soul iscoming through, and you can hear
(47:11):
the difference in her voicebetween when she's speaking from
her mind and when she'sspeaking from her soul and the
profound nature of what wascoming up and through her.
So I highly recommend listeningto that.
If you need that little bit ofproof, right, if your mind needs
a little bit of proof that youcan connect to your soul in this
way, the voice of your soul iswaiting for you and in the
(47:32):
meantime, can you take thosesteps to start stepping into
alignment, to notice where arethe places where you feel
tension, where are the placeswhere you feel that anxiety,
where are the places where yourmind is telling a story and can
you start asking yourself how isthat different than the story?
My intuition is telling, how isthat story drawing me away from
(47:53):
peace instead of towards it?
How is it drawing me away fromtruth instead of towards it?
How can you tell when it comestime to make a decision?
Is the answer really loud andchaotic and proving something?
Then it's probably your mind.
Is it calm and deep and feellike it's coming from your belly
?
Then it's probably your mind.
Is it calm and deep and feellike it's coming from your belly
?
Then it's probably your soul.
And so if you're listening tothis and you're thinking, that's
(48:15):
great.
But again, how do I do it?
I would love to be able to hearmy intuition.
I would love to be able to hearmy soul.
I want to be able to know thatI have answers within me and be
able to help walk my mindthrough the process of letting
go of some of that control, sothat my intuition can start to
play a bigger role, so that itcan start to be my internal GPS
(48:36):
and I don't have to stay stuckwithin the limits of my mind or
what I've been trained to thinklife should look like.
I am doing a four-week SoulSpeak Masterclass, starting next
Wednesday, march 26th, and itwill be from 6 PM mountain time
to 7 PM mountain time or 8 PMEastern time to 9 PM Eastern
time.
So those of you who are joiningus for book club, you can just
(48:59):
hop on right after.
But it's going to be a fourweek masterclass where we dive
into not only just thepsychology and the theory of
what is the difference betweenthe mind versus the soul, diving
into things like cognitivedissonance and theories of
consciousness and what is yourawareness?
Why aren't we our thoughts?
Why aren't we our soul?
What are we in that in-between,how can we witness both?
(49:20):
But also really diving you into.
Let's get you to drop into yourintuition so that by the end of
the masterclass, not only haveyou heard the voice of your
intuition, not only have youdeveloped tools to be able to
connect to it regularly, butthat you are on your way to
hearing it as clearly as you canhear the voice of your mind.
So over the course of four weekswe'll dive into the theory of
(49:41):
soul speak.
We'll dive into how to identifyemotional beanbags or stuck
points and process thoseemotions so that you can free up
space to hear your intuitioneven more clearly.
We'll talk about how you cansee your soul.
So not just hear your soul, butwe'll do soul viewing, which is
an amazing exercise.
To take you even deeper, we'lltalk about the different ways to
(50:01):
communicate with your soul, thebest questions to ask, how to
find your own connection.
So we'll do.
Half of the classes will beteaching and learning and
pulling apart the theory and thetechnique and how to do it, and
then the other half will beexperience.
So we'll be taking youone-on-one, individually
throughout the class into thatspace of soul speak so that you
can hear your intuition, justlike Christine did on the demo.
(50:24):
So if you are interested inhearing the voice of your soul,
if you're interested in gettinga deeper connection to your
intuition so it's not just a,it's nice when it happens, but
it's not consistent, but you areconsistently hearing your
intuition you know that you haveaccess to those answers within
you.
You have this inner GPS thatyou can go down and ask
questions to, just like you canto a friend or to a parent.
(50:45):
This class is for you.
It's going to be four weeks,for an hour every Wednesday, and
we will have information on howyou can enroll for that coming
out in today's Monday email.
So if you haven't logged on toour newsletter yet, I highly
recommend you do so.
We'll also be sharing detailsover in our Shamanic Mystics
Facebook group so you can joinus there if you're interested in
(51:06):
enrolling.
It'll be a four-week masterclass, a little just beautiful taste
of how we can dive into ourintuition and, like I said
earlier, my goal with this classis that by the end of it, you
won't have to come back, thatyou will have this tool where
you can hear your intuition asclearly as you can hear your
mind, so that you know that youhave the answers within, you
know how to deal with blocks oremotions or bumps along the way
(51:27):
when they come up, and you canstart realigning to the voice of
your soul, so that your mindand your soul are singing the
same song and you get to witnessthe magic that happens in your
life.
When that happens and, like Isaid, I've done this with
probably hundreds of clients bynow and it's been completely
transformative for each andevery one of them Because, again
, can you imagine a world wherewe could all hear our soul as
(51:50):
clearly as we could hear ourmind?
And that's what I'm hoping andthat's what I know is going to
happen for those who join us inthe masterclass.
So, again, if you areinterested in joining us for
that, feel free to message me,join us in the Facebook group
for more information, keep aneye on your emails.
That will be starting onWednesday, march 26th and I hope
to see you there.
(52:11):
But until then, I hope that thisepisode has given you something
to not only think about butfeel into, that it has awakened
your intuition and given youthings to start understanding.
Where is that still quiet, calmvoice within you?
Where are the places where yourmind is pulling you away from
that, and how can you startcoming back into alignment?
How can you start coming backinto that, knowing that your
(52:33):
soul is there for you, that it'scalling for you?
That when you open yourself upand you let your mind release
that fear and release a littlebit of control, that magic is
waiting for you.
So we would love to hear yourtop takeaways over in the
Facebook group or send us amessage and we thank you.
Thank you for joining us, forthis conversation and until next
time, may you awaken to thewhispers of wisdom rising from
(52:57):
within.
Thanks for tuning in to today'sshow.
The Wisdom Rising podcast issponsored by Moon Rising
Shamanic Institute.
If you enjoyed this episode, besure to subscribe to the show
on your favorite podcasting appand be the first to know when we
release a new episode.
You can find us on Instagram,facebook, youtube and TikTok at
(53:23):
Moon Rising Institute or visitour website,
moonrisinginstitutecom to learnmore about our mission and find
future opportunities to connectwith our community of shamanic
mystics.
Once again, thank you forsharing space with us today and
until next time may you awakento the whispers of wisdom rising
from within.
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