Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
It's time to remember
your divine purpose and
limitless potential.
Welcome to Wisdom Rising, theofficial podcast of Moon Rising
Shamanic Institute.
Join shamanic Reikipractitioners Christine Rene,
Isabel Wells and Chantel Ochoaas we guide you on a journey of
radical self-discovery andspiritual guidance.
(00:26):
Each week, we'll dance throughthe realms of shamanism,
mysticism, energy, healing andpersonal development to
illuminate your path to truehealing and self-sourced wisdom
Through weekly inspiredconversations and interviews
with leading spiritual andshamanic practitioners.
We are here to help youacknowledge, reconcile and
(00:49):
balance your energy so that youcan awaken to the whispers of
wisdom rising from within.
Welcome, welcome back toanother amazing conversation.
Today, we're diving deep intowhat's the difference between
(01:10):
shamanic Reiki and Usui Reiki.
This is a question that we'vebeen getting a lot in our
community about.
What are the differences?
Is it like Karuna Reiki, whereit's a different, quote-unquote
type of Reiki, or is itsomething different when we're
talking about shamanic Reiki?
And Christine and I geek outabout both of these topics and
this question in general, and sowe're really, really excited to
(01:33):
bring this conversation to youguys.
Christine, do you want to kickus off today?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I do.
I would love to, I feel likeone.
We need to kind of clarify whatis a Sui Reiki and which one
we're talking about.
Right, so let's start there,because when I go into teach a
reiki level one or a level twoor even my reiki master teacher
training class, I teach it as areiki fusion class, meaning we
(01:59):
have traditional reiki and wehave modern reiki.
And when we boil it down, whatdo those two things mean?
And when I talk abouttraditional Reiki, isui Reiki,
roho, which just translates toIsui's Reiki therapy, the
traditional Reiki, there's a lotof elements of that practice,
(02:20):
with chanting and meditation andself-attunements and how to
heal the Kokoro, that mind-heartconnection I so honor.
I love chanting the Gokai inJapanese.
The Reiki precepts, thosethings are very traditional and
there's elements there that arereally supportive.
And the moment we start settingintentions and calling in
(02:44):
guides in any capacity, we'vemoved over into modern Reiki.
We've moved into a westernizedpractice, right, so it might not
even be a shamanic Reikipractice and you're setting
intentions and you're receivingmessages and you're providing
those to clients, while all youare now in a more modernized
Reiki practice, right, and soreally understanding the
difference that traditionalReiki did not, um, and like it
(03:09):
doesn't entice stories andattachments.
So, from a Buddhist perspective,the moment we start giving our
awareness and attention tomessages that are coming through
visuals that we're seeing, um,feeling like releasing things,
like all of those are in themore modernized practice and
much more accepted in the Westas common practices.
(03:32):
So if you're in a Reikipractice and you're using
crystals and you're calling inguides and you're having
conversations with your clients,that's all modern, right.
And so when we can come to thisconversation of what's the
difference between a sui reikiand shamanic reiki, part of it's
like.
Which reiki are we talkingabout?
Right, and I love to startthere, because so much of the
(03:56):
traditional reiki the sui reiki,roho has shamanic roots.
That's why this wholeconversation is so delightful to
me and interesting, because itall has shamanic flavors to it.
Right, and so this is yeah, goahead.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
No, I was just going
to add to that that it's really
interesting to me when we starttalking about the difference
between these two.
There's I find that there'skind of two like you were just
saying two different versions ofReiki.
There's the Reiki that we thinkis Usui Reiki Ryoho, and then
there's actually Usui ReikiRyoho, and I know that our
community has learned so much ofwhat that quote-unquote, true
(04:36):
Usui Reiki Ryoho practice lookslike because of you and on all
of the wisdom that you broughtback from Japan, and I know that
I've learned so much from youand from that perspective.
But what I also think is reallyinteresting in one of the
biggest shifts, just in the ideaof Reiki that we see from to
use the terms that you were justusing the Isui Reiki RyΕho and
(04:57):
then that more Western,modernized Reiki practice is,
there's this distinct switchfrom Reiki is a path to for lack
of a better term enlightenment.
Right, because Reiki was.
It was a Buddhist practice.
It was tied up in the mountainaestheticism and the shamanic
practices of the time in Japan,but really it was a Buddhist
(05:18):
practice that was designed tohelp you find your personal
enlightenment, to heal yourkokoro, to come back into
alignment, to connect with thedivine so that you find your
personal enlightenment, to healyour kokoro, to come back into
alignment, to connect with thedivine so that you could release
the stories, release the egoand achieve that enlightenment,
whereas in Western, modern Reiki, the focus is really on Reiki
is to heal.
There's a little bit of this.
Even if we say, you know, I'man open channel and I'm an open
(05:41):
vessel, there is still very muchthis intention that I am going
to perform Reiki or I'm going toallow Reiki to flow through me
so that myself or my clientreceives healing.
And what I find reallyfascinating about this and this
is something that at the verybeginning of my Reiki practice,
I remember reading a copy ofMikawa Sui's handbooks, like his
(06:02):
original notebooks, and Iremember sitting on the floor of
my bedroom going this isn'twhat we're taught at all Like.
This is completely different.
And what I love about it isit's this reminder that healing
is, in a way, a side effect.
Right, and I think that's one ofthe biggest shifts that I see
in how we look at Reiki is thatin the very beginning, not only
(06:25):
was Usui's Reiki not the firstReiki, reiki was being practiced
by many different people.
Right.
We just happen to know Usui'sbecause it was the one that,
especially for us in the West,came to the West through Takata.
But that form of Reiki was tobring us back into connection
with ourselves in a way.
They wouldn't call it that inBuddhism, right, but essentially
(06:46):
, using our language, it wasthis path to enlightenment, it
was this chance to realign andthe healing was a side effect.
It was a consequence of thefact that as our vibration
lifted, as our kokoro was healedas whatever you want to call
that phenomenon as we got backinto spiritual alignment, our
physical healing was a sideeffect of that.
(07:06):
Whereas now I often find thatthe way that we look at Reiki is
that healing comes first andthen the spiritual alignment.
And I often wonder and I'venoticed this in my own practice
that that's often where Reikikind of loses people.
Right, there are people who sayyou know, well, I tried Reiki
and I didn't really feelanything, or I got some nice
tingling, but that was it, andmaybe it's just not for me and
(07:29):
sometimes I think it's becausewe're missing a little bit of
that depth of it was to comeback to center first, to release
the stories not attached tothem, to allow healing to happen
, not to make it happen as theprimary goal.
So there there is a really bigshift in philosophy when we're
talking about what was UsuiReiki, ryoho, truly right.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
I think that's what's
so fascinating is when we get
down to having theseconversations and going what is
your like, how are you embodying, how are you being Reiki, how
are you flowing with Reiki?
What's your daily practice like?
Like, what are we doing forourselves?
(08:12):
And I find so many differentpractices and teachers out there
.
With the combination of Reikilevel one and level two, we've
forgotten the self-healingcomponent and I feel like that
was the majority of what theywere doing in Japanese.
So we Reiki Rojo was very muchthe meditation, the chanting,
(08:33):
the, the self attunements, thepractices in there, um, the, the
, the society was very much todevelop your own energy within,
like, to, to cultivate thatdivine alignment.
Right, it wasn't about givingother people Reiki.
It wasn't a Reiki share, theway we have them, and even when
(08:56):
you do a Reiki share in Japan,it's like no talking, no sharing
.
You know, like that's not thepoint.
So it just.
It's so beautiful for me to havethat experience of really
understanding what thesepractices are and what is it
like to actually sit and chantfor, let's say, even 10 minutes.
(09:19):
What does that do to our bodies?
Right, when we are, when we'rein a chant, when we're in a
meditative practice.
We're coming into this divinealignment where we're not
allowing other thoughts in,we're just with the energy,
we're just being the energy.
And when we're with when that,when we have that alignment kind
(09:40):
of stack up in ourselves, thenwe can overflow in abundance
into our energetic fields, wecan energetically meet others
with and really truly be inalignment with the precepts.
Like you're not going to gethooked into other, other
people's stories, you're notgoing to get worried, you're not
going to get angry.
Like all those things becomenatural when you are in this
(10:04):
state of I am Reiki, I'm beingReiki, I'm letting it flow with
me.
There's no separation in that,and so it's so contrast to how
most of us probably learned inthe West, right, and so it's
very confusing for a lot offolks to think about it this way
.
And when you actually get intothe practice, I'm like, oh, this
(10:27):
is some juicy stuff.
I love it.
I love teaching Reikimeditations, even for my Reiki
level one students, because it'ssomething that you can take
home and start working on anddeveloping immediately.
It's not just about the handplacements.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Yes, yes, and it's
not just about the hand
placements.
Yes, yes, and you know it's sointeresting.
As you were talking, I wasthinking about that idea of
being Reiki and that idea ofit's not that you as a person
are embodying Reiki.
It's this idea that can you letyourself be released to become
one with the Reiki.
And I love this because I adoreSui Reiki, ryoho and my real
(11:06):
passion is on the shamanic sideof things, and so I'm noticing
this connection betweenistperspective and how there are
some native cultures that theirword for a river you know the
(11:27):
way that we say that is a riverthey say that is life being a
river.
And I love this perspectivebecause I think it really
invites us to shift our mindsetfrom understanding that you are
a unique point of consciousness,right, and even when we're
looking at it from the Buddhistperspective, when we're pulling
in that Reiki perspective, thatwas the idea is that you are
(11:50):
connected to the great nothing.
You are nothing, and that wasenlightenment, was when you
could fully realize that when wepull it into a Reiki practice,
that became you are Reiki, youare the life that is flowing
through all things.
You just happen to have adistinct shape, and can we let
that shape dissolve so that webecome one with the river of
Reiki flowing.
(12:10):
But when we look at this froman animist perspective, it's
this idea of can you understandthat it's not a river, it is
life being a river, you are lifebeing a human.
And what's really interestingabout that and where we can
connect it to the Kokoro ideafrom Usui Reiki, which is that
(12:31):
heart-mind connection that wehave to kind of boil it down.
When we think of thatheart-mind connection, we can
pull that into any spiritualpractice, but especially into
shamanism, when we think aboutthe difference between our mind
and what a lot of people willcall our soul or our spirit or
our heart or our intuition orwhatever word resonates most for
you there, right, and we canreally look at this
(12:53):
understanding that we have thesetwo kind of modes of being
right.
We can be in that mental,logical, doing state which I
think is where a lot of Reikiends up nowadays of I am doing
healing.
Even if we're trying not tothink that way, it's really
natural for our minds to want todo the healing.
Or we can be in this intuitive,connected, experiential,
(13:15):
feeling space of our soul or ourheart and that idea of being
Reiki, being a river, reallyopens us up to this idea of
right now, in this moment inyour life, are you being a mind
or are you being a soul?
Because we are just that uniqueconsciousness.
We're just that life, we'rejust that Reiki, and we get to
(13:37):
choose where it's flowing.
Is it flowing into that logical, doer, fixer, mental, ego
perspective or is it flowinginto that soul-led, heart-led,
life-led part of ourselves?
And what I love about this ideais this is also where and we
understand this in Reiki too, Iuse this analogy with my
students all the time this ideathat if you're looking at a
(13:59):
river that's flowing, our mindwants to be the rock in the
middle of a river and makeeverything kind of part around
it so that it can understand, sothat it knows why was this
happening, why is life headingthis way?
Why did I get this message in myReiki session right?
And that's very much kind ofwhat we see in that westernized
Reiki and oftentimes shamanicpractices is really wanting to
(14:20):
attach to the stories of what'shappening, and I don't think
that's a bad thing.
I don't wanting to attach tothe stories of what's happening,
and I don't think that's a badthing?
I don't.
I think that there's a reasonthat our minds, especially in
the Western world, need tounderstand the stories and the
whys because we are trained.
We're trained to want to knowthe stories and so, in order for
our mind to kind of let go alittle bit it's going to want to
(14:40):
know why, and that's okay weget to allow it to have the
understanding and allow it to bereleased, so that once we have
that oh okay, I understand nowthen we let it go and allow it
to bring us deeper, rather thanholding onto the story more like
that rock.
So it's that difference betweenbeing the rock in the middle of
the river and actually justbeing the water that's flowing
(15:03):
and moving and you knoweverything that it needs you to
know and you heal everythingthat needs you to heal, not
because you're that rock that'smaking it happen, you're not
connected to your mind butbecause you have become the
river, you have become thatenergy that's flowing, and that,
to me, is one of those reallybeautiful places that really
shows us why Reiki and shamanismwork so well together.
(15:25):
Because when we look at thebasics of each practice, that's
the idea is how much can youallow yourself to be life being
a river, to allow yourself tojust be the Reiki.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
And here's where I
get I really geek out is.
So here you have a Pure LandBuddhist monk, sensei Asui.
He's sitting on the top of thismountain and he is being the
mountain.
His practice for 21 days isbeing in nature, as I am being
one with the mountain, I am thelife of the mountain, and so
(16:01):
he's letting go of everythingthat is not that right.
And so in his practice, he ispracticing animism.
He's practicing this form ofshamanism, to be of nature,
aestheticism, and this was theheart of Reiki.
It wasn't the hand positions,it wasn't the, you know, these
other things.
It's how can be one with thisenergy of life and have this
(16:27):
miracle be bestowed upon him ofthe Reiki energy, right?
And so now we are then allgifted Guess what.
So we did it for us, so I don'thave to go sit on top of a
mountain for 21 days and hopethat it happens.
He developed this practice ofhow can I move this energy from
teacher to student, teacher tostudent, teacher to student,
(16:48):
right?
So we don't have to go sit on amountain for 21 days.
If you want to, fantastic, gofor it.
And we don't have to, and so Ilove that.
The roots, the true roots ofReiki.
I find so much animism and somuch shamanic play already
involved when we really start tounderstand it.
(17:09):
Play already involves when wereally start to understand it
and then in the forming of it,how can we make this practical
applications?
And especially when it went tothe West, when it needed to be
whitewashed after World War II,right Like the survival of Reiki
, all of that happened forreason and purpose to let Reiki
survive.
And now we have all of thiswisdom, we have all of this
(17:33):
knowledge of going, we knowwhere the tradition comes from,
we know how it's typicallypracticed in the West.
And now we have this choice andthis is the beautiful thing.
We can decide how we want tomix modalities, and I feel like
when we say shamanic Reiki, it'san opportunity to kind of mix
modalities.
(17:53):
We can then become one with theflow of what, isabella speaking,
I'm being the river, I'm in theflow of the energy of Reiki and
letting it flow through my bodyto where it needs to go, and I
am open and available to themystery of the healing, the
healing process allowing ourspiritual gifts to awaken,
(18:16):
allowing the messages, allowingthe visions, allowing the smells
, allowing the empathy to showup to speak to us in this
harmonious way with the energy,right.
And so, right there, when westart developing our spiritual
gifts, because the Reiki isflowing through us and opening
(18:36):
us to this possibility, right,it's healing all of those sticky
layers within ourselves.
That said, that we shouldn't beseeing things right, like I
think about the little kid who'sbeen told that they're too old
to see imaginary friends anymore, right?
Whereas when we start to reallyallow our spiritual gifts to
(18:56):
reawaken and then we're doingthese practices, where we are
the water, we are in the flow.
What's showing up for you, andare we letting our ego, our mind
, that rock in the middle, tryto figure it out?
Right, that's where things kindof get a little.
We need to be careful.
(19:17):
Right, when we are fully in thatdivine flow state and allowing
our spiritual gifts to show up,then that's when shamanic Reiki
can get really interesting,because we're allowing the
visions to show up, we'reallowing the message to come,
show up, and we're then alsoutilizing that Reiki energy to
find things within our clients'energetic fields and within
(19:41):
ourselves that need to beremoved.
We're finding the places andspaces where there's sticky
energy or sloppy energy orenergetic cords or intrusive
objects, or whatever it is.
How do we release it?
And so, in my mind, when wecombine shamanic practices and
Reiki practices, the shamanicside is often the releasing.
(20:03):
I'm letting this go, I'mletting this go, I'm letting
this go, I'm letting what nolonger serves me go to the earth
and release.
And then here's this beautifulReiki energy that flows to fill
in those voids with this loveand light healing energy.
And they're like in thisperfect marriage with one
another.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
And it's.
You know it's so interestinghaving this conversation.
I want to backtrack for asecond before we dive into the
shamanic aspects, because thatidea of using our spiritual
gifts in Reiki or mixingmodalities or things like that,
if you talk to somebody whotruly practices Usui Reiki,
ryoho, that would be a big no-no.
Like there are certain strandsand practices of Reiki where
(20:44):
Reiki is all you do, and I'm notsaying that to say that I think
that's wrong.
I'm saying that to highlightthe fact that, for everyone
who's listening to thisconversation right now, you've
most likely have an interest inthis topic, because that way of
practicing doesn't work for you.
It doesn't give you thosegoosebumps or that joy or that
alignment, and this is why Ithink it's so important to
(21:05):
understand that there is no onebetter way of doing Reiki or the
best way of practicingspirituality, because everyone
is going to connect to thesethings in their own way.
Right, there is that biguniversal what I like to call
the capital T truth that we'reall trying to find right, that
alignment, that divineconnection.
(21:25):
But we're all going to getthere in our own ways.
And so, if practicing pure UsuiReiki, ryoho, and chanting the
Gokai and using the handplacements and connecting with
the self-attunements, and doingthese practices and really
releasing every single storybrings you back into alignment.
That's beautiful and fantasticand you should follow that.
(21:47):
And if you're feeling like thatfeels restrictive, or like
you're just playing a part orlike you're missing something,
that's because that's just notyour pathway to the truth.
It doesn't mean that it's notgoing to be somebody else's
right.
Somebody else is going to findtotal alignment with traditional
Usui Reiki, ryoho, while theperson next to them is going to
(22:07):
find their truth and their pathto the divine through something
like shamanic Reiki.
And I think that is so beautifulbecause it brings us into this
awareness, this compassion ofyou know there's that saying all
roads lead to home.
It brings us back intocompassion with that and
understanding with that of thereis no right way to do this and
(22:30):
for a culture that, especiallyin the West, a lot of us were
really raised on, especiallyreligious thinking, right With
that idea that there is this oneway to do it.
I find that we often have thisalmost perfectionism storyline
embedded into our subconscious,that we have to get it right,
that we have to find the exactright path forward, and that's
(22:52):
where, again, our mind startsbeing that rock in the middle of
the river because we're tryingto hold on.
Or, from a Buddhist perspective, we're trying to attach to this
idea that there's one right wayto do it, whereas if we can let
ourselves relax into that flow,let ourselves relax into the
stream of where our spiritualthinking, where our gifts, where
our intuition is taking us,that's often where we find that
(23:14):
path back to what alignment isfor us, what divine connection
is for us.
And that's part of why I dolove for me so so much the
shamanic Reiki aspect of it,because when we're looking at
shamanic Reiki and I think, justlike we kind of defined exactly
what Usui Reiki is, it'simportant to really define what
shamanic Reiki.
And I think, just like we kindof defined exactly what Usui
Reiki is, it's important toreally define what shamanic
Reiki is as well.
(23:35):
And so when we look at shamanicReiki, it's this idea that we
have Reiki, whichever flavor ofReiki you practice, right,
karuna, usui, holy Fire Reiki,whatever kind of Reiki you
practice coupled with theshamanic practices.
And the reason that I thinkthis is really important is
because it's really easy for usto say that we have a shamanic
(24:00):
Reiki practice.
When we really are morepracticing in a modern or
Western Reiki way, we're usingour intuition, we're using our
spiritual gifts and there's thistendency to want to call that
shamanic Reiki.
That's not to say that it's notbeautiful, that it's not a
wonderful practice to have, butI do think it's really important
to understand that when we'retalking about shamanic Reiki, we
(24:21):
are talking about someone whohas a solid foundation in Reiki
and a solid foundation inshamanism.
And when we look at shamanism,I like to explain that it's
really this applied animism.
When we go back all the way toour very first ancestors,
shamanism is the very first wayof life, of spirituality that we
can see in cave paintings, inarchaeological evidence.
(24:43):
Our very first ancestors werepracticing animism, this idea
that everything in life aroundus has life, has spirit, has
this consciousness.
It might not look like humanconsciousness, but it has that
energy to it.
And so if we lived with thisworldview and again, this is
where shamanism isn't a religion, it's not this spiritual
(25:04):
ideology, it's this way ofliving life, as if everything
around you were alive and wehave a lot of podcasts going
into all of the details ofshamanism, but it was this idea
that if we really, trulybelieved that everything around
us had life, that we are onewith nature and that nature is a
manifestation of the divine,how would we live our lives?
(25:26):
What practices would weintegrate?
What spiritual rituals would wefind to connect us more deeply
to that energy?
And that's where we start toget some of the core components
of shamanism that we see pop upin Siberia, in China, in the
Amazon, in the US, all of thesereally core pieces of shamanism
that popped up in culturesaround the globe, regardless of
(25:49):
time.
They weren't connected, theyweren't communicating.
It was just when we, as humans,are allowed to just look at
nature around us and interactwith it as if it were alive.
What comes through?
Shamanism comes through andthis ability to connect with
nature, to understand that thereare spiritual realms beyond
this one that we can connect toand we can walk in, if we've had
(26:10):
the training to be able to doit, that we have this team of
guides, that we have a poweranimal, that we can use this
specific drumbeat to get ourbrain into an altered state of
consciousness, so that we canenter into non-ordinary reality,
so that we can shamanic journey, so that we can do the cord
cutting and intrusive objectremoval and the soul retrieval
(26:32):
and all of this and all of that.
The shamanic practice then getsmarried with our Reiki practice
so that when we step into aReiki session it's not
quote-unquote just right.
That's not me trying todiminish, that's just me saying
that it's not that we're onlydoing Reiki in a session.
It's that we step into asession and we chant our Gokai,
(26:52):
we call in our Reiki energy, butwe're also calling in the seven
directions and our power animaland our spirit guide and this
understanding that we are somuch more than this one
practitioner doing a Reikisession.
We are everything, we are allof nature, coming forward to
facilitate that alignment in ourclient.
(27:14):
And so this is why I think it'sso important to understand that
shamanic Reiki isn't justcalling in our guides and doing
Reiki.
It's not just tuning into ourspiritual gifts and doing Reiki,
it's.
Do we have a really truefoundation and understanding?
What is shamanism?
Where does it come from?
What are the practices?
What does it mean to be one withnature?
Do we have a personalrelationship with each of the
(27:36):
directions?
Can we recognize ourselves asthat stream, as the mountain, as
that life force, and then marrythat with our Reiki practice so
that when we step into asession, it's not just us or us
and our Reiki guide, it's us andall of the energy of nature,
all of the divine, all of thedirections, all of our guides
(27:57):
coming in to release and clearaway, like Christine said, so
that then we can bring the Reikienergy on top and seal in that
healing and expand their energyfield and bring them back into
that divine alignment and expandtheir energy field and bring
them back into that divinealignment.
And so it becomes this reallybeautiful yin-yang system in a
way of shamanism comes in toreally dive into the shadow and
(28:18):
into the darkness and look atwhat needs to be released and
what's not serving me.
And where are those demons orthose shadows or those, whatever
you want to call them, thosedarker sides of healing, because
those are real and they deserveto be seen.
And can we do so in a way thatis full of grace and full of
compassion and full of thatdeeply rooted understanding that
(28:38):
we are nature, so that we canrelease all of those.
And when we've released thatand we've created space, we can
then bring in the Reiki and useit to fill that hole, to expand
our energy and to bring back inthat positive divine alignment
on the light side of thespectrum.
And it just, it just brings meso much joy.
I just love it so much.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Right, well, and I
think that's it Like it's a
marriage.
It is this yin yang, it is theshadow and the light, it is it's
both, and I think that thatcombination is a really powerful
tool where we're notspiritually bypassing, we're not
trying to get around thoseheavier places, and we have the
(29:23):
tools and the skill sets in theshamanic training to really be
able to go there with confidenceand clarity.
And I think that's where youknow you really do need the
training.
This isn't something that youcan just go read a book and say
you're a shamanic practitioner,like there is pieces of this
(29:44):
where you are traveling into thedarkness, you are traveling
into people's shadows, and youreally need to be equipped to do
so and to be able to hold spacefor them, to be in their free
will, sovereignty and really beclear and true to who they are
and recognize what's ready to bereleased and let go and or call
(30:05):
things back in.
Where do they lose their power?
How can we call those soulfragments of themselves that
were lost in trauma, that werelost in their childhood wounds,
back into full harmony of theirbodies, right?
So it's very, it's a very deeppractice and I, too, just
(30:25):
absolutely love it, like I lovethat I am seeing clients in
person in Bozeman Montana again,because I get to really step
into that role once again, andit's I've been doing this online
for so long for the last fiveyears Predominantly I haven't
seen in-person clients unlessI've been traveling and doing
sessions in these pop-upworkshops, right, and now I'm
(30:48):
like, okay, I'm, I'm ready tostep into doing both, like I
love doing my online sessions.
They can be really powerful andI think that's the other cool
thing about this work is wedon't have to be in person.
You can absolutely do all ofall of this, whether it's Reiki
or shamanic Reiki.
You can do it in the onlinespace and you can also do
(31:11):
ceremonies and rituals and allkinds of things in the in-person
space and it'd be just aspowerful, like I love.
I love this work because energyis energy is energy, and if you
are working with someone who isready for healing that's the key
word there If they're ready forhealing ready for healing,
(31:32):
that's the key word there Ifthey're ready for healing, then
healing will occur, you know.
And so it's like you're meetingyour client or you're meeting
to yourself to the level inwhich you feel safe to to
release.
And so this is where havingthose practices of Practices of
informed consent, of creatingtrauma aware spaces where you
(31:53):
know what could be triggering,you know how to help people go
to their edges, but not into afull trigger, right Like you're
learning how to hold sacredspace for someone to do that
healing work and that takes along term practice and study
with mentors, with guides, tolearn how to do that healing
work.
And that takes a long termpractice and study, with mentors
(32:13):
, with guides, to learn how todo that.
And so I I absolutely love it.
I love it when I can helpsomeone really move through
their layers of hurt veryquickly or very slowly, and I
think that's the other thing.
Some people want to movethrough their layers really slow
(32:34):
and gentle and that's what'sgoing to work for them.
And I have other people whocome into sessions who are like
let's get her done, I want tomove through all of this as fast
as possible, and they havewhirlwinds of sessions where big
things are happening and bothare okay.
I don't judge one over theother as quote unquote better
(32:55):
right, because everyone ishealing at their own pace, and I
think that's where we get toreally recognize and see people
for who they are, of goingwherever you're at, I'm here
with you as your guide, as yoursupport person in the sacred
process.
I'm going to meet your energywhere you're at and we're going
to, we're going to find theplaces in which you're ready to
(33:17):
heal for today, period.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
And that's that's.
It's such a shift.
It's such a shift from how wesee healing presented,
especially nowadays.
And once again, when we talkabout that idea of what healing
should look like, this idea thatyou know again that
perfectionistic tendency of Igot to heal all the things right
now, or if I'm not fully healed, I'm not spiritual enough, or
(33:44):
I'm not connected enough, or ifI can't let go of all of the
stories, then I'm doing it wrong, or if I'm not getting all of
my clairvoyance picture perfect.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
I'm not doing it
right, like I have so many
clients and students that if allof their spiritual gifts aren't
on board, they're like talkingdown about themselves.
I'm like, no, no, no, no, no.
I've been doing this for over20 years and I still don't see
it like a movie screen perfectlyperfect color, perfect audio,
like that ideal of what it'ssupposed to look like needs to
(34:21):
be shattered.
It needs to go away.
It doesn't.
Having this ideal of what ourspiritual gifts are supposed to
be is hindering your process.
It's hindering your process.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
It is.
And you know, what I love aboutthis is I often find that when
we are just playing in the Reikifield, when we're sticking with
our pure Reiki practice, one oftwo things start to happen.
One, we actually don't make ita practice right, and this is
where you know you were sayingthat Mikao Sui went up to the
mountain for 21 days, so wedon't have to, and that's
(34:55):
absolutely true.
But the exchange is that weneed to connect every day, we
need to have it be a practice,we need to create that sustained
connection.
But the other thing that I seehappen is that there's almost
this subconscious idea withReiki that Mikau Osui went up to
(35:16):
the mountain and achievedenlightenment, he received Reiki
, he got that moment of and I'mhealed now.
And I think that there's alittle bit of this subconscious
idea that we're supposed to dothat too, that if we just
practice Reiki the right way, ifwe just try hard enough, if we
just spirituality hard enough,that we will have that moment of
(35:41):
healing.
And what I love about bringingshamanism into the equation is
that when we look at shamanicpractices, there's these two
ideas that I find are so potentwhen we can bring this
understanding into a Reikipractice.
And the first is that of theshaman's ladder.
And the shaman's ladder is thisidea of if you think of a
spiral, right, it starts at thecenter and then it gradually
(36:03):
gets bigger as it goes around.
This was their idea of healing.
It wasn't just a boom, you'reenlightened, you're done.
Now, it was this idea ofhealing is a spiral, it's a
journey, and you're going tocontinue to revisit the same
locations on that spiral, butwith a little wider perspective,
with a little more healing,with another layer peeled off,
(36:24):
and that immediately takes thepressure away from this idea
that I'm going to be done oneday.
There was no done.
From a shamanic perspective, theother thing that I find that
really helps seal that in isthis idea that the shamans we
see them as medicine man, right,this person, this being that we
took our ill or our ailingindividuals to and they were
(36:48):
just healed.
Maybe they gave them some herbs, maybe they said a chant, right
, that's kind of the mentalimage that often pops up.
But when we look at it from acultural perspective, what the
shaman actually was was thetruth keeper for the tribe, and
their method of healing wasunderstanding that all of our
ailments, all of our illnesses,all of our dis-ease comes from
(37:09):
when the stories that we'retelling ourselves don't align
with the stories that the divinegave us, with that universal
capital T truth, right.
And so the shaman.
Yeah, they might have usedherbs and they might have used a
chant, but the biggest thingthat they were going to do is
they were going to help you tosee where have the stories that
you tell yourselves come out ofalignment, where have you
(37:30):
stopped telling yourself thetruth and started telling
yourself something different?
So that process became what'sknown as becoming a hollow bone,
of peeling away all of themarrow, all of the false stories
, all of that gunk that we'veheld onto, to become that open
vessel that life can flowthrough without hitting the rock
that we were talking aboutearlier.
(37:51):
And when we pair these twoideas together, that shaman's
ladder, this idea that lifewasn't about healing, it wasn't
about being done, it wasn'tabout getting rid of everything
so that you were perfect, it wasthat you're constantly moving
on that spiral and can you peelback the next layer and the next
layer so that you are as clear,as connected to the truth, as
(38:12):
in alignment with those storiesas you possibly can be to
facilitate your path along thatspiral.
And when we can bring that intoour Reiki session, that's when,
like Christine was saying, weget to sit with each other in
the darkness and recognize thatI'm not the practitioner because
I have all of the answers, orbecause I have it done, or
because I achieved enlightenment, or because I was spiritual
(38:34):
enough, I cleared out enough, Ihealed enough, that now I'm
better and therefore I can helpyou.
It's this idea that thepractitioner, the shamanic
practitioner, understands thatwe're never done, that we're all
on the same journey, that someof us might be a ring on the
ladder ahead, but that doesn'tmake us better.
It just means that we have adifferent perspective.
(38:55):
And can we help each other?
Can we facilitate that sacredspace that Christine was saying,
where we help our client, wherewe help the person that we're
sitting with to recognize whereare the stories that they are
telling out of alignment withthe truth, and can we release
that?
Can we release thoseattachments?
Can we release the energeticblockages that come from that?
Can we release everything sothat we can then bring in the
(39:17):
Reiki energy to act as a tuningfork to bring us back into
alignment, and so it becomesthis beautiful, like Christine
said, this marriage of these twoways of perceiving energy,
where it takes away thispressure to be healed, to be
done, to be perfect, and insteadsays it's a process.
Can we walk through the processtogether and use the tools, use
(39:39):
the knowledge that we have toclear away everything that's
holding you back from that deepsense of connection and bring in
the Reiki to then help youmarry that connection with the
alignment of the divine, howeverthat looks for you, knowing
that there isn't a right way,there isn't a perfect, there
isn't a.
This is the example ofspiritual perfection and
(40:00):
enlightenment and ideal thatyou're meant to be achieving.
It's what does it look like foryou in this moment?
Can we help you find connectionand comfort and alignment with
where you are on that spiraltoday, knowing that you're just
going to keep going because it'sa journey right?
Speaker 2 (40:18):
I think I love that
idea of the spiral, Like when we
are faced with life, like herewe're on earth, like we're going
to have issues arise, we'regoing to be triggered, we're
going to have shit hit the fan.
Like we're here on earth.
It's not a vacation space,Right?
So life is going to happen andwhen we have those things that
(40:42):
show up, if you're on thatspiral, you're, you're gathering
the tools, You're gatheringthis wisdom, You're gathering
this.
I know how to bring myself backinto alignment as a shamanic
Reiki practitioner.
You know how to do the Reikisteps.
You know how to do the shamanicpieces going.
What part of me was triggeredin this process that needs to be
(41:04):
healed?
Still right, Like there's thisprocess that needs to be healed?
Still right, Like there's.
It's such a beautiful way ofapproaching your journey,
knowing that there isn't an endpoint and knowing that like it's
not going to be a prettyprocess.
I think a lot of people wantspiritual healing to be a pretty
process and it's just not.
And the more you resist that,um, it needs to look a certain
(41:27):
way and it needs to be pretty.
The harder it is, the morewe're available to be able to
sit with our stuff our, ourshadows, our stories that we've
told ourselves for years, ourpast history, our traumas,
whatever it is, the more we'reable to be like I'm available to
(41:49):
look and witness these thingsthat have happened in my life,
so that when I get knocked downI can go oh, I see what that
rubbed up against.
That was that story from mypast and now it's hurting me
again and I can bear witness toit and I can love that part of
myself because I have the toolsto remember who I am.
(42:11):
And, as that hollow bone, asthat clear energetic flute in
your body, that chakra system,you're able to move the energy.
You're able to find that placein which the energy can flow in
and move to those spaces inwhich they need healing, and
it's a beautiful process.
So, whether you're looking atit from I'm a hollow bone and
(42:34):
I'm open and available to letthat energy flow, or that your
um chakra system is in alignmentand flow and so you can breathe
the energy through there, or ifthis is Kundalini rising like
energy is energy is energy.
How is it moving?
How can we let our bodies, ourspirits, our emotions be
(42:56):
available to that energetic flowof healing?
Speaker 1 (43:03):
Absolutely.
And and again, this idea thatwhen we can do that you said
this word, witnessing.
That I love, because that'sreally what I think shamanic
Reiki invites us to do, becauseso often when we step into our
Reiki practice, we're noticingbut we're not witnessing.
And the difference there isthat we notice the buzzing, we
notice that place where maybethere's a little energetic
(43:23):
bubble or a soft point or aquiet point, and we know that
the Reiki should flow.
There is that we notice thebuzzing, we notice that place
where maybe there's a littleenergetic bubble or a soft point
or a quiet point, and we knowthat the Reiki should flow there
.
But we notice it because webelieve it needs healing.
In other words, we notice itbecause we think it needs to be
fixed.
But what shamanism helps us todo is to be able to witness
something in that we sit thereand we recognize that even those
(43:46):
parts of us deserve to be seen,deserve to be loved, deserve to
be witnessed, to be held.
And it's in that holding, it'sin that sacred space that we can
look at them and notice whatchanges, what shifts, what falls
away, what isn't true.
And so, although we often lookat shamanism and we think of it
(44:08):
like this, really kind of likedingy, dark, really active
practice, right, I think we allhave a lot of mental pictures
about what shamanism really is.
It's actually so gentle and sohealing, because it is this
process of saying there is not asingle part of me or my life
that is too scary for me to lookat, that is too ugly, that is
(44:31):
too distorted, that is toobroken, because we're not broken
, we are whole as long as weallow ourselves to see all of us
, including the light, includingthe shadow.
And so it breaks apart thattendency for spiritual bypassing
, because, instead of justlooking for the light, just
looking for the perfect, justlooking for the enlightened,
(44:51):
we're looking for all of it.
We're looking for what is mylife being right now through me,
all of it, every emotion, everyexperience, every belief, all
of it, belief, all of it.
And can we allow ourselves towitness that?
Not so it can be fixed, but sothat we get to see the depth and
breadth of what life has chosento do through us in this moment
(45:14):
.
And isn't that incredible?
Speaker 2 (45:17):
It is incredible and
I love it, and that's why, at
Moon Rising Shamanic Institute,we offer shamanic Reiki training
and it's a four month containerfor our kind of like, your
level.
One like this is a self healing.
Let's dig into those shadows,let's heal those places and
spaces within ourselves beforewe move into the practitioner
(45:38):
role.
And so know that we areoffering another start of that
program here in September.
So save your dates.
Feel free to reach out to ushere at the Moon Rising
Institute if you have questions,and know that in the month of
June I'm going to be teachingquite a few Reiki, traditional
Reiki trainings, reiki fusion,where I'm going to really be
(46:00):
teaching Reiki classes, thelevel one, level two and master
teacher training, predominantlybecause I'm heading out very
soon to go on my Reikipilgrimage in Japan for the
second time and I get to becompletely immersed in this and
traditional Reiki and reallydive into the shamanic roots of
(46:22):
Reiki, and so it's one of myfavorite ways to really dive
into my Reiki practice andreally understand the shamanic
aspects of the traditional, andso when I come back, I plan on
having a series of Reikitraining.
So this isn't the shamanic side,it's the traditional side with
little like.
Here's the understanding ofthis is your traditional and
(46:47):
this is how we can bring it intothe modern, how do we bring it
into our everyday world.
So if you're interested inthose, be sure to watch our
emails, our Facebook group forthe events and or just reach out
directly and let me know thatyou're interested.
So I be.
I will be sure to notify youwhen those opportunities arise.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
Absolutely, and know
that our masterclass series will
be continuing.
We have Chantel's AlchemizingArchetypes Masterclass happening
.
It starts on the 26th, sundaythe 20th or, I'm sorry, sunday
the 27th, and I will put thatlink here in the show notes
below as well.
So if you're listening to this,you're welcome to continue to
join.
It will be six weeks long andyou're welcome to join Chantel
(47:30):
in that Alchemizing ArchetypesMasterclass as well, as I'm
planning an introduction toShamanic Reiki Masterclass very
soon as well.
So, like Christine said, besure to join our Moon Rising
Shamanic Mystics Facebook groupto subscribe to our newsletter,
to send us a message on Facebookor email us at mystics at
moonrisinginstitutecom, andwe're happy to provide you the
(47:51):
resources to get you the freepodcasts and webinars and things
that we do, or also help you toenroll in a masterclass or a
one-on-one session or ourfour-month Soul Rising Shamanic
Reiki course.
If this conversation reallysparked that joy and power and
confidence in you that yes, thisis the next step that I want to
take, then we want to be hereto hold space for you and to
(48:13):
create that sacred container foryou to also do this work,
because the more we can comeinto alignment, the more we can
find that connection, the easierand the more expansive our life
gets to be, but also thathealing is going to ripple out
and to impact everything.
So know that our waitlist forthat Soul Rising Shamanic Reiki
course is now open, so you canjoin the waitlist and you'll get
(48:35):
priority enrollment whenenrollment opens again in the
fall.
But until then, thank you,thank you, thank you all for
joining us for this conversation.
We would love to hear your toptakeaways and answer any
questions that you have over inour Facebook group or via email.
And until next time, may youawaken to the whispers of wisdom
rising from within.
(48:55):
Thanks for tuning in to today'sshow.
The Wisdom Rising podcast issponsored by Moon Rising
Shamanic Institute.
If you enjoyed this episode, besure to subscribe to the show
on your favorite podcasting appand be the first to know when we
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You can find us on Instagram,facebook, youtube and TikTok at
(49:20):
Moon Rising Institute, or visitour website,
moonrisinginstitutecom to learnmore about our mission and find
future opportunities to connectwith our community of shamanic
mystics.
Once again, thank you forsharing space with us today and
until next time, may you awakento the whispers of wisdom rising
from within.