May 19, 2025 • 55 mins
What if the way we talk about our spiritual journey is keeping us stuck? For years, we've embraced the concept of healing—diligently working to release trauma, overcome limiting beliefs, and fix what's supposedly broken within us. But there's a subtle, disempowering message hidden in that language.
Today, we're proposing a radical shift from healing to alignment. When we constantly frame our experience as a healing journey, we unconsciously reinforce the belief that we're broken and one day we'll be fixed. This perspective puts our worthiness perpetually in the future—we'll be enough when we're finally healed.
Alignment acknowledges that you are already whole. You're not broken—you're simply experiencing the natural fluctuations of being human. Instead of trying to fix what's wrong, alignment focuses on reconnecting with your true self, with Source, with the natural flow of life in each present moment.
In this episode, we cover:
- How healing language can reinforce a sense of brokenness
- Why chasing healing can leave us feeling unworthy
- The shift from a healing mindset to one of alignment
- How to start embracing wholeness in the present
- The power of reconnecting with your true self
- The transformative nature of liminal, in-between spaces
- How presence opens you to unexpected possibilities
- A 30-minute practice to anchor into now
- Recognizing worthiness as your natural state
- Healing vs. alignment
- And more!
Ready to explore this paradigm shift? Start listening now! Your wholeness is waiting to be recognized, not created.
........
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
It's time to remember your divine purpose and
limitless potential.
Welcome to Wisdom Rising, theofficial podcast of Moon Rising
Shamanic Institute.
Join shamanic Reikipractitioners Christine Rene,
isabel Wells and Chantel Ochoaas we guide you on a journey of
radical self-discovery andspiritual guidance.
(00:26):
Each week, we'll dance throughthe realms of shamanism,
mysticism, energy, healing andpersonal development to
illuminate your path to truehealing and self-sourced wisdom
Through weekly inspiredconversations and interviews
with leading spiritual andshamanic practitioners.
We are here to help youacknowledge, reconcile and
(00:49):
balance your energy so that youcan awaken to the whispers of
wisdom rising from within.
Welcome back to another amazingepisode here on the Wisdom
Rising podcast.
I'm your host for today, isabelWells, and in this episode, I'm
(01:11):
joined with Chantel Ochoa as wetalk on a topic that has become
really near and dear to both ofour hearts the concept of
healing versus aligning.
Why we need to shift from theconcept of healing to the
concept of aligning versusaligning.
Why we need to shift from theconcept of healing to the
concept of aligning, and exactlyhow to do that.
(01:31):
If you've watched some of ourrecent YouTube videos, you have
heard me share why I'm callingfor a movement to shift us away
from healing and towardsalignment.
The spiritual community isknown for supporting spiritual
seekers through their healingjourney, and this journey is
valuable and important andempowering.
But when we constantly aretelling ourselves that we are in
the midst of healing, we'realso subconsciously installing
the belief that we are in needof fixing, that we're broken and
(01:53):
one day we'll be healed, andthat belief can often shift us
away from living a trulyempowered and embodied life.
And so in today's conversation,we talk about why shifting away
from healing and towardsaligning is so important in
helping us walk our passion andpurpose, and how we can
recalibrate in every moment sothat we can truly experience the
(02:15):
beauty of being alive here onthis earth at this time and
allow ourselves to fullyexperience the life that is
happening right in front of us.
So I hope that you enjoytoday's episode, but before we
dive in, I do want to give youan update on some of the amazing
offerings that we have for youall here in our community.
If you are part of the MoonRising Shamanic Mystics Facebook
(02:36):
group, you'll know that we havea fantastic webinar coming up
on May 29th with our visionaryChristine Rene.
Christine has spent the lastseveral weeks in Japan on a
pilgrimage to the birthplace ofReiki and on May 29th, at 5 pm
Mountain Time, 7 pm Eastern Time, she's offering a free webinar
diving into the question why didUsui go to Mount Kurama?
(02:58):
If you've ever wondered why hetook this journey, what the
purpose was, or how Reiki'sroots in Japanese Buddhism and
shamanism influenced thepractice, this is your chance to
find out.
This webinar will dive into theorigins of Reiki, how and why
Eastern and Western Reikidivided, what the original Reiki
teachings tell us about thepractice, and so much more.
(03:20):
So if you are interested injoining Christine for this free
webinar on May 29th the linkwill be in the show notes Please
be sure to register so that youcan get the link both to join
us live and for the recording.
If you can't make us live, andif this topic is really
fascinating for you and you wantto learn more about Eastern
Reiki versus Western Reiki andreceive your Reiki master
(03:42):
teacher training while you're atit, christine does have a Reiki
Fusion master teacher trainingstarting on June 5th.
You guys will be meeting everyThursday and Christine will be
offering all of the insights,knowledge and wisdom that she is
bringing back with her fromMount Karama and infusing it
into her Reiki master teachertraining.
(04:02):
So, whether you're looking tore-sit your master training or
you're a level two ready to stepinto that master teacher
training so whether you'relooking to reset your master
training or you're a level twoready to step into that master
teacher role, this class is afantastic place to start.
The link to learn more and saveyour seat is in the show notes
as well.
And, of course, if you haven'talready, be sure to join us in
our Moon Rising Shamanic MysticsFacebook group.
This amazing community of over4,000 individuals are walking
(04:26):
this path with you, asking thequestions you're asking and
experiencing that alignment andhealing that we're going to be
talking about in today's episode.
Along the way, be sure that yousubscribe to us on our YouTube
channel, but also to thispodcast, so that you can get
access to new episodes sooner.
We would love to hear your toptakeaways from today's episode
(04:46):
over in the Facebook group, oryou can send us an email at
mystics atmoonrisinginstitutecom.
But without further ado, let'sgo to the show.
Welcome, welcome back toanother amazing conversation.
I am so excited, as always, tobe joined with Chantel today,
and today we're going to betalking about why we need to,
(05:07):
why we're calling for a shiftfrom saying that we're on a
healing journey, or saying thatwe're healing, to focusing on
alignment and saying that we'rein the process of aligning.
We recently talked about this,christine and I, on a YouTube
video where we were answering acommunity question asking if we
ever have days where our energyjust isn't flowing.
(05:27):
So if you haven't seen thatYouTube video, check it out.
Link is in the chat in the shownotes.
But today's conversation isreally an encore to that of
really exploring why we'recalling for this shift from
healing to aligning, and this issomething that I have been
really passionate about lately.
If you watch that YouTube video, you'll hear me kind of call
(05:49):
for a movement about this shift,and it's because, yes, there
are absolutely certain timeswhere we truly are healing.
Right, like, let's say that wehave, you know, if you're in the
middle of a season of PTSD orif you have a physical illness
like a broken arm or a chronicdisease or an autoimmune or
something like this.
Right, there are times in ourlives where we truly are healing
(06:11):
.
We're in a state of crisis,we're in a state of really acute
imbalance and we need to takeimmediate action to restore that
balance.
But when we say that we're onthis healing journey, right, or
you know it's coming up so itcan be healed, all of these
things, and we continue to dothis for multiple, multiple
years at a time, or even ourentire lifetime what ends up
(06:33):
happening?
Is that what we're reallysaying?
When we say, well, I'm healing,or I'm on my healing journey,
et cetera, et cetera, is whatwe're actually saying is there
is part of me that's broken andneeds to be fixed, and one day
it will be fixed, aka one day Iwill be better than I am right
now.
And so we've got this multitudeof implications that we don't
(06:54):
even realize.
We're saying right, but toimply, to say this needs healed,
I need healed, I'm on myhealing journey is implying one,
that there's some part of usthat is broken or less than or
not enough.
Two, that at some point thatpart will be fixed or that we
will finally be good enough.
And three, that at some pointour healing journey will be done
(07:16):
right.
And I know that everybodylistening is probably going no,
that's not at all.
What I mean when I say I'mhealing, and that's the point is
, it's not conscious right, it'snot the front-facing side of
that affirmation.
It's a beautiful thing to saythat you're on a healing journey
, to have that self-compassionof saying I'm working on myself,
I'm trying to get better, I'mworking on releasing all of
(07:37):
these things that are holding meback, but the subconscious
implication is that something'sbroken and one day will be fixed
.
And I really firmly believethat if we kind of hold on to
this idea of healing as achronic life sentence, if you
will right, like this thing thatwe're always constantly doing,
we're doing ourselves adisservice because we are,
(07:59):
little by little, reinstallingthe belief that we are not
enough as we are right now.
We're reinstalling the beliefthat we're not enough as we are
right now.
We're reinstalling the beliefthat we're going to be done one
day and therefore, right now weneed to be fixed.
We need to do more, we need tobe more, we need to release this
limiting belief.
We need to love ourselves more,we need to love others more.
We need to do more in order tobe worthy, in order to be enough
(08:23):
, in order to be worthy, inorder to be enough, in order to
be accepted or okay.
And we also use it as thisalmost like making up for
ourselves of like I canrecognize that that needs to be
healed, right?
How many times do we use thatin your own words, right?
But this idea of I see thatthat's on me, I'm working on it
or I'm healing it or it's justpart of the process, and feel
(08:47):
like if we didn't say that, thenit's uncomfortable because we
kind of have to explain, we haveto justify yes, okay, I did
this thing, but I can recognizeit's part of my healing journey
and it's a little bit ofspiritual bypassing sometimes,
right, and these are broadstrokes, generalizations that
we're making here.
Obviously, there are exceptions,obviously everyone is on their
(09:08):
own journey.
But what we're talking about intoday's conversation is this
kind of epidemic that we're inright now of believing that we
constantly need to be healed,and I really do think that in a
lot of ways, it's holding usback because, again, it's
reinstalling that belief thatsomehow we're not enough right
now.
And so we're calling for thisshift towards saying that we're
(09:30):
aligning, or saying that we'refocusing on alignment, to really
recognize that every moment isan opportunity to come back to
balance, that we're never goingto be done because we're not
broken now, we don't need to befixed because we are whole as we
are right now.
Yes, there are going to betimes where we're welcoming
parts of ourselves home or we'recoming back into connection
(09:50):
with ourselves, but it's all inservice of that alignment,
because every single moment inyour life is just as valuable as
the next.
But oftentimes we put ourselveskind of on a shelf, saying that
we're healing so that one day,when we're healed, then we'll be
able to fully enjoy life, thenwe'll be able to step into the
role that we really want to door have the job we really want
(10:13):
to have or live the life thatwe're going to have, because
we'll be healed, we'll be enough, we'll be done.
And I think if we could shiftfrom that perspective into
saying what does alignment looklike for you right now?
What would it look like to comeback into connection with
yourself, with source, withnature right now, not saying
that you're going to be done,not saying that this is going to
(10:34):
last forever, not saying thatthere's even something broken or
needing to be fixed in thismoment, but just saying that as
humans, we are constantlysearching for balance and can we
bring this idea of a healingjourney that spans everything we
experienced in the past andsays that in the future it'll be
healed and bring it back intothe present and say what do we
need right now to come back intoalignment, to come back into
(10:56):
connection.
And so that's, at 1111 my time,what we're talking about today.
Chantel, what thoughts do youhave on that?
Speaker 2 (11:03):
I actually have a lot of thoughts on it.
I truly do believe in the powerof our words, and how we state
or how we call in our healing,how we call in our alignment, is
that they're kind of likespells, if you will right.
So the words that we state isare we chasing or retracting,
(11:24):
are we in this space of being,or are we always like looking
for something more?
Like kind of what you'reexplaining it's when we are
healing?
Yes, it is, there is time andspace for that.
But really every time, like ING, right, that is in process, we
are doing it, we're movingforward with it.
So you're always chasing thathealed version of yourself,
(11:46):
versus saying I am in alignmentright now, Even if we are
dealing with a chronic illnessor an autoimmune or a cold or
something, that in itself isstill in alignment because
there's a lesson, there's asomething in it that we are
learning from, whether it'slearning how to communicate with
our body.
So our body is telling us hey,you know what we're not doing
(12:06):
really well right now, likeyou're too stressed, you're too
overwhelmed, you got too muchgoing on, so I'm going to shut
down by becoming sick or havinga cold or whatever.
So there's rest, so there'stime to take care of yourself,
to nurture yourself, and that isthe process of healing.
But it's also the process ofbeing in alignment with where
(12:27):
you are and where your life is.
So sometimes, like getting sickis kind of a chin check in life
to say hey, it's too much, thisis way too much, or you are
bypassing your healing andyou're not looking at your
physical health and you're notsaying you know what?
(12:52):
I got to clear some stuff frommy plate.
It is overwhelming, right.
And so it is talking to ourselfin a way that is in alignment
to where you want to be andwhere you are currently.
And so I don't think that.
And it doesn't just meanonaling, it can be with work, it
can be family situations, itreally is in flow with so many
aspects of our life.
But it's knowing that whereveryou are right now is in
alignment where you're meant tobe.
(13:14):
And so, if we're always chasingsomething, we're never in the
present moment.
We're always worrying about thefuture, we're always depressed
about the past.
You know, we bring in a lot ofdifferent emotions of you know,
like shame or guilt or sadness,whatever the past has provided.
And then, when we're chasingthe future.
We don't know what the futureholds, so we might have this
(13:35):
expectation of what we think isgoing to happen and then
suddenly, everything changes andwhat it could either become
better than we expected changesand what it could either become
better than we expected, rightor it's it doesn't meet the
expectations that we had.
Therefore, disappointment comesforward.
So it really is tuning into thealignment of where we are right
now and knowing whether it'swe're feeling good about it or
(13:58):
we're feeling excited about it.
Either way, there's somethingin it for us to to learn about,
to recognize, to kind of youknow, I don't want to be like
analyze it in the mental body ofit, but in your heart, you know
, come to it from a heart basedperspective and analyze it from
there.
Why am I feeling this?
(14:19):
Why am I, you know, why am Ibeing like, expressing this
emotion or experiencing this?
And so it really is coming toalignment so that we can stand
in our true, authentic positionright now.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
And I love what you said about there's always
something that we can learn fromthis.
So there's always something wecan pull from this situation,
because I think so often, whenwe're focused on healing right,
if a negative emotion comes upor we have a difficult
experience or we're having asituation or a pattern that's a
little bit chronic or recurringcome up again, we start to beat
(14:59):
up on ourselves a little bit, westart to should ourselves about
well, I should be better by now, I should be healed by now.
I shouldn't be feeling thisbecause, again, I should be
healed, I should be in alignment, and we start to take away from
the value of that moment.
One of the most common timesthat I see this come up in our
students is if they're in aperiod of questioning, right, so
(15:23):
maybe they want to know what todo about their job, or they're
unhappy in their relationship,or they have something happening
with their physical body andthey just can't quite find the
answer right.
So there's this negativepattern, in whichever area of
life it's in, and they can'tfind how they're going to
resolve it, how they're going tountie the knot, and a lot of
times I think everybody canrelate to that feeling of
(15:46):
feeling like I need to figure itout, I need to fix it, I need
to resolve the negativity,resolve the energetic block,
resolve the limiting belief,whatever it is, so that I can
get over it, so that I can getthrough it, I can get to the
next stage.
And I always remind them of twothings.
First is that, from a shamanicperspective, this period in life
where you were between twoplaces you weren't quite where
(16:09):
you used to be, but you're alsonot quite where you're going was
called the betwixt and betweenstage, and it was considered
this amazing time of personaltransformation and potential,
because it was in thatin-between stage that all of the
magic was manifested, that allof the unknown could come
through.
We talked in a previous podcastepisode about when you go
(16:30):
shopping at Target right, andyou have your list and, yeah,
you get the stuff that's on yourlist.
But what we all really loveabout Target is the fact that
you walk in and you have no ideawhat you're going to walk out
with.
Right, the magic of Targethappens and you find something
that you didn't know you neededuntil you see it.
And that's that theory of thebetwixt and between is.
We can think we know what wewant, we can think we know, like
(16:51):
you said, what's going tohappen next.
We can think we understandwhere our life trajectory is
supposed to go, but until westep into that phase of betwixt,
and between, there areunlimited potentials that our
mind has never even thought of,let alone thought that we were
worthy of, that, were possible,et cetera, et cetera.
And so that period is thisreally powerful and potent time
(17:15):
of transformation.
We have to let ourselves sit inthe unknown in order to feel
those things come to us.
But the other thing I remindthem of is, typically, as a
spiritual seeker right, we havethis belief that we are exactly
where we're supposed to be inevery moment.
Right, and that means that wehave this belief that in every
moment, we have everything thatwe need.
Right, that means that in everymoment, we have all of the
(17:39):
answers, we have all of theinformation, we have all of the
healing, we have all of theresources, we have all of the
information, we have all of thehealing, we have all of the
resources, we have all of theeverything that we could ever
need.
And so, if we are feeling anintense emotion, if we are stuck
in a period of questioning.
If we feel like we're a littleout of balance right now, it's
not because we're doing anythingwrong, it's not because we're
missing something.
(17:59):
It's because there is somethingfor us in that discomfort, in
that questioning, in thatemotion, in that situation that,
if we allowed ourselves to bepresent with it, to be curious
about it and to have truecompassion for ourselves, in
that, that's where the learningis going to come from, that's
where the shift is going to comefrom is allowing ourselves to
(18:21):
sit exactly where we are in thepresent and really look at what
do I need in this moment?
What is coming to me in thismoment?
I always like to ask my studentswhat's the present of the
present moment, what's the giftthat this situation is giving
you?
And I think so often when we'refocused on healing, we're
focused on fixing the negativeemotion, we're focused on
(18:42):
letting go of the limitingbelief or finding the root and
digging it out or fixing thesituation.
But when we can come back intoa focus on alignment and what we
mean by alignment, I'd love toexplore that with you a little
bit too.
When we talk about alignment,we mean again that reconnection
to your true self, thatreconnection to the divine, that
(19:02):
reconnection to all that iswhatever that is for you, and
getting back into alignment withthe flow of life, so you're not
resisting it, right?
It's not like we're a rock inthe middle of the river.
We are the river, we are backand connected with that flow,
and that looks different foreverybody.
But when we're focused on thatidea of alignment, we're no
longer trying to get rid of thenegative emotion or to fix the
(19:23):
situation or to negateeverything that we're
experiencing right.
We're no longer saying, in somecapacity, this situation is
wrong or bad or needs to befixed.
We're saying this situation,this emotion, everything I'm
experiencing right now is worthy, it has value.
There is a reason for this.
Can I let myself sit with it todiscover all of the potential
(19:46):
and, like you were saying, allof the lessons that this has for
me, so that I can really notonly honor this situation and
honor what it's bringing up forme, but I can come back into
alignment by not putting myselfin the past and trying to figure
out where it's coming from, orprojecting myself in the future
and trying to figure out whathappens next, but truly sitting
with what is happening right now, because at the end of the day,
(20:09):
that's really where any kind ofhealing or aligning, or peace
or joy or happiness or anythingelse comes from is when we can
let ourselves sit in the presentmoment with ourselves, and I
think that's part of why thisshift from healing to aligning
is so important.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yeah, I love that Because it projects the idea
that we're broken, right, and ifwe're broken, then we're always
trying to fix it, we're alwaystrying to heal from it.
And so we aren't broken, we'rejust learning.
We're just on this humanjourney of experiencing ourself
and the different things thatcome into our life.
And so, yes, there are, like wesaid, periods of healing, but
(20:50):
beyond that, it's justself-awareness and knowing and
being able to sit with yourself,and that can be a scary thing.
There's a lot of people thatyou know don't want to sit with
themselves.
They're afraid of theirthoughts, their ideas, their
emotions, and you know ouremotions, yeah, they can be
really scary.
We don't want to sit withthemselves.
They're afraid of theirthoughts, their ideas, their
emotions, and you know ouremotions, yeah, they can be
really scary.
We don't know what's going tocome up.
We don't know what's going toshow up from the past.
(21:12):
Or you know, why are we feelinganxious?
Why are we feeling all theseemotions?
But that when we feel it, it'sbecause we it's ready to come up
.
And so what we do is we tend topack and suppress our emotions
and we hold on to them and thenthey go and they have to right.
And so that is alignment.
When you're in alignment withyour own self, you can sit in
(21:49):
your emotions, you can sit withyour thoughts and you don't have
to be afraid of yourself,because ourself is who we are,
with 24 seven.
You know 24 seven all the time.
And so, recognizing that inyourself, if you're afraid to
sit, do little things, you know,even if it's like turn the TV
off, turn the radio off, youknow.
Sit in silence just on yourcouch for 15, 20 minutes, let
(22:14):
whatever needs to come up, comeup journal on it, write it down
whatever it is you feel you needto do to release it, Do those
little things.
It's a step by step, but beforeyou know it, you can sit in
your silence all the time and itdoesn't matter, it will be okay
, because you look forward towhat is ready to come out and
ready to be released, becauseyou feel so much lighter.
(22:35):
And then you go back to the TV,you go back to scrolling
whatever it is, but it's reallysitting in the moment for a
minute and just saying I got meand I get to hold space for me
right now, because no one canhold space for you better than
yourself, and so when we canreally hold space for ourself,
our emotions, our experiences oflife, then that is when our
(22:57):
power really gets to show up forus and that's when we really do
feel like we're in alignment.
But what we a lot of times, ashumans, what do we do?
We're very external.
We're taking that externalworld.
We're seeking, you know,friendship and um, you know,
like, um, collaboration withpeople, conversations.
We take all of our internalworld and we want to bring it
(23:18):
out into the external and let'stalk about this.
But really talk with yourself,and going within is so powerful
that you have all the answers,Like you're talking about.
Everything you need is alreadyin you.
You just have to ask yourselfwhat are the answers that you're
seeking?
Speaker 1 (23:35):
And what you said about that feeling of I've got
me right.
I got chills with that becausewe don't think about this, right
.
We talk about self-love andself-compassion all of the time,
right.
But again, if we're reallylooking at from a psychological
perspective, what we're sayingwhen we're saying I'm healing or
I'm on my healing journey, isagain that idea like we've been
(23:55):
saying from the start that thereis part of me that needs to be
fixed.
There is part of me that isless than.
Does that sound like self-loveto you?
We think that self-love comesfrom healing by saying I want to
get better, I want to do more,I want to release the parts of
me that aren't in alignment, thelimiting beliefs.
I want to heal the trauma, Iwant to release the negative
(24:17):
emotions so that I can have ahappy life right.
But what we're really sayingagain at the end of the day is
there's part of me that isn'tworthy as it is right now.
That's not self-love, not true,unlimited, agape self-love,
right, that unconditionalself-love that comes from
alignment, from the ability tosay no matter where I am,
(24:39):
whether it's a joyful moment ora beautiful moment or a sad
moment or a scary moment or alimiting moment or something
that I could have maybe possiblydone better, doesn't matter.
No matter where you are, youare worthy to be seen and to be
witnessed in that, and you arethe only one that can fully
witness yourself in that.
Yes, going to other people andtalking and sharing your story
(25:03):
and listening to them is anamazing first step because it
brings us back into that senseof community.
It allows you to be seen.
But when we're talking aboutalignment, we're talking on a
deeper level, about your abilityto see and witness yourself,
which is the true roots ofself-love and self-compassion is
.
Can you sit with yourself, nomatter where you are?
(25:24):
And I always like to bring thisback because I'm me to like a
scientific, physiologicalperspective.
Right, we're all taught in highschool about homeostasis, our
body's ability to compensate forwhat's ever happening
physiologically to bring us backinto balance.
And that doesn't mean thateverything's going to compensate
for what's ever happeningphysiologically to bring us back
into balance.
And that doesn't mean thateverything's going to be in
harmony.
Right, sometimes our adrenalsmake up for the stress that
(25:47):
we're experiencing and that'show we get back into homeostasis
is by producing more stresshormones.
Right, because we're comingback into balance.
Balance doesn't necessarilymean harmony, but what that does
mean is that our bodies.
Balance doesn't necessarilymean harmony, but what that does
mean is that our bodies notonly physically, but also
psychologically, energetically,emotionally we are primed to try
(26:08):
to come back into balance, totry to come back into that state
of homeostasis, of optimalfunctioning.
And what that means is that ifwe allow ourselves to, like you
said, tune in and ask ourselveswhat do I need in this moment?
That's as simple as it gets tobe.
What do I need in this moment?
We inherently automaticallyknow why.
(26:28):
Because our systems are set upto bring us back into balance,
to keep us healthy, to bring usback into connection with the
flow of life.
Yes, our mind can have all ofthose stories and all of those
thoughts and all of thoselimiting beliefs that pull us
flow of life.
Yes, our mind can have all ofthose stories and all of those
thoughts and all of thoselimiting beliefs that pull us
out of it.
But when we truly take a momentto tune in, we know already
what we need.
And this is where cognitivedissonance comes in right.
(26:50):
Cognitive dissonance happenswhen your intuition is telling
you one thing and your mind istelling you something else.
And so anytime a student comesto me and says, well, I don't
know what my intuition is sayingabout this, or I don't know
what I'm supposed to do, or Idon't know how to fix it, it's
like, yeah, you do.
You wouldn't be struggling ifyou didn't.
What's causing that discord,what's causing that discomfort,
(27:11):
is not letting yourself hear theanswer.
That's coming from within you,and I think so often the reason
that that happens is because wehave a society that is so rooted
in keeping us from feelingself-love right Like, even when
we're talking about it.
In healing, we never think aboutit that way.
But then it's like you say itand you say yeah, but when we
(27:31):
say we're healing, that meansthere's part of us that's not
worthy right now.
And when you hear someone sayit, it's like, oh shit, no, that
is true.
Saying that we're healing,being stuck in this chronic
healing cycle, is constantlysaying that I'm not good enough
as I am now.
That's not true, unconditionalself-love.
When we can recognize that andwe can feel, even if it's just
(27:56):
that teeny, tiny piece of youwithin, that's saying you are
worth, that you do have value,you are allowed to feel that
self-love and compassion.
That's when the big shiftstarts to happen, where we can,
yes, continue on our journey ofexpansion.
Right In that YouTube video Imentioned Christine and I talk
about the shaman's ladder right.
So, if you think of a spiral, westart at the middle and as
(28:20):
we're walking, as we're havingthis human experience, we start
to spiral outward and we startto gain awareness and we start
to gain understanding and westart to have a broader scope of
experiences.
And that's why you know thereare times where you come back to
a trauma that you thought youhealed or a limiting belief that
you thought you had quoteunquote fixed.
It's not because you didn't doit right the first time, it's
because you're back at thatpoint on the spiral with an
(28:40):
expanded awareness, with moreunderstanding, with more
experience under your belt, sothat you can see it from a
different perspective.
And when we can take thatapproach, there is no end, there
is no purpose to I'm going toheal so that one day I can be
healed, because that's a myth.
Being healed doesn't exist.
There is just you on thisexperience, exactly as you are
(29:04):
and exactly as you will be inthe next step and the next step
and the next step, not becausethat you is more worthy or has
more value or has somehow beenfixed, but because you are
inherently worthy as someonehaving this experience.
What makes you worthy isn'twhat you do or what you've
(29:24):
healed, or what you think, orwhat you say, or how you're
acting in the world.
It's the fact that you exist,the fact that you are breathing,
the fact that you are alive,makes you inherently worthy.
The joy of walking along thatspiral is the fact that we get
to experience this lifetime,that we get to experience this
time-space reality, that we getto be this spiritual being
having that human experience.
(29:45):
And the human experience isthat unfolding, it is that
progression, it is thatevolution.
But it is not going from brokento fixed, because none of us
are broken, even when we feellike it.
Right and I say that as someonewho has felt broken many, many
times in my life right, but whenwe can let ourselves sit with
that feeling, when we can sit inthe betwixt and between where
(30:07):
we feel like maybe I'm notenough, maybe I'm not doing the
right things, maybe I should bedoing something different, when
we let ourselves sit with thatand recognize that just because
we're having those thoughts,just because that's happening in
our mental reality doesn't meanthat that's what's actually
happening in our physicalreality or our spiritual reality
.
It's a potential, right,because the thought is there.
(30:27):
It's a potential, but justbecause it's real up here
doesn't mean that it's true.
And when we can allow ourselvesto recognize that and sit with
it and say what do thesethoughts have for me right now?
Where are they leading me?
Where, on this spiral, on thisjourney, not of healing but of
alignment of experience, whereis this taking me?
And can I have true compassionfor myself, no matter where I am
(30:51):
in that process, to recognizethat where I am right now has
value, who I am right now hasworth.
I am right now has value, who Iam right now has worth, that I
am okay and enough.
And I get the joy ofexperiencing all of the emotions
and all of the questions andall of the answers and all of
the everything.
And I was talking to someoneabout this at the retreat that I
(31:12):
was just teaching at this ideathat we're not trying to
transcend, we're not trying toescape, we're not trying to get
out of our human selves, becauseif we were, we just wouldn't
have embodied in the first place.
Right, we start as spirit,we'll return to spirit.
This is like a nice briefvacation from our
non-embodiedness, right it is.
(31:33):
It's a vacation from the spiritworld.
Is it an easy vacation?
No, probably not.
But for all intents andpurposes it's a pause button
where we get to come in and weget to experience time.
We get to experience space, weget to experience physical
reality, we get to experiencewhat, in the spirit world, would
happen in an instant.
(31:53):
Right?
Our lifetime, our 80 to 100years of human life happens now
in the spirit world.
And so, when we become embodied,we step into this place where
time exists, where we get to seethe transitions and the
emotions and the growth and theevolution that, when we're in
the spirit world, just happen.
(32:14):
There is no process, there is noin between, it just is.
And so, as human beings, we getthe chance to step into this and
feel the discomfort andexperience the questioning, and
notice the emotions and see thebeauty that comes through when
we have those moments of clarityand of alignment and of saying,
oh my gosh, yes, that that'swhat I want, that's who I am,
(32:36):
that's where I'm going, notbecause where we are isn't good
enough, but because we are giventhis gift of being able to
experience the process.
And how often are we shortingourselves of that experience of
the process of the experience,by saying that I'm healing, by
saying that where I am right nowisn't enough.
I'm going to get where I needto go.
(32:57):
There's nowhere you need to goexcept where you are right now.
And that, to me, is the mostpowerful part of shifting from
saying I'm healing to saying I'maligning.
In this moment, I'm coming backinto alignment, I'm
reconnecting with thatunderstanding, I'm reconnecting
with the flow of life, I'mreconnecting and maybe
reconvincing myself of the factthat where I am right now is
(33:19):
enough, that I am enough andthat when I can drop into the
present, what's meant to happennext, the next step on that
shaman's ladder, on that spiral,will make itself clear, not
because I'm trying, not becauseI need to go somewhere next, but
because what happens next canonly be revealed to me if I'm
letting myself fully be in thepresent.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
I really like the idea of time-space and the
shaman's spiral for sure, butwith the time-space, when we're
talking about, that is knowingon the spiritual realm.
Yes, it is like a pinpoint,it's like one dot within our
spiritual experience, right, butin our human experience, with
time spaces, like that one dotis being straight.
(34:01):
This stretch is being expandedinto all of these slides of our
life, right, all of theseexperiences of our life, and so
at any point we can feel trappedor stuck or stagnant in our
life as we are expanding throughthis time space.
But when it's collapsed it'sjust like a moment, it's a blip,
and so the invitation is totake each process of life and be
(34:27):
in that moment and let youprocess through your emotions
and your thoughts, because ourmind really can keep us trapped
and stuck in that moment.
And then those energies are theemotions that follow with us
when we carry them into the nextlike segment of our life.
Really, we're just draggingthat past energy with us, and so
(34:48):
we can see it kind of like hereon Zoom, when we're in our own
you know our own square or inour own bubble.
We're standing in our own hoop.
We do not need to drag all ofthe past experiences with us
into the present, into thefuture, because that one's
already done.
It's kind of like watching amovie.
You know when you have thebeginning, the middle and the
(35:10):
end, the movie doesn't keepwrapping it up, it doesn't keep
dragging the beginning of themovie to the end of the movie.
You know there's segments,you're going through it and so
for us, as people, we need torecognize that in ourself.
Am I dragging the past with me?
Am I making my healing processeven more, like more of a
struggle, more strenuous?
Or am I able to be in alignmentand know that all the
(35:32):
experiences I've had were withpurpose and reason and I learned
through that?
Or certain people had to beremoved from my life because
they weren't in alignment withwhere I'm going?
And if it isn't in alignment,let it go, release it.
The people or the experiencesthat are meant to stay with you
will stay and if at some pointsomebody drops away, they will
(35:54):
come back if their alignment, iftheir frequency is meant to
match yours.
But if not, let it go, releaseit for a while and see where
life takes you Right.
And so it's really playing withthese different ideas and
concepts of what, like this timereality is what being in this
physical really means.
(36:14):
Like go enjoy the food joy,enjoy life.
Go travel to places you haven'tseen.
Like go enjoy the food joy,enjoy life.
Go travel to places you haven'tseen.
Go laugh at things that youknow might be inappropriate, but
they're fun to laugh at.
You know, like, whatever it isthat you're feeling, this is
your life to do it.
And so, when we do return backto spirit, when we do go back to
(36:35):
our natural, like essence ofwho we are, we have to
reincarnate and recycle throughthis whole process to fill this
again.
So it is like be who you are,the energy that you are here,
the personality, the avatar,however you want to put it.
You are embodied in this bodyand this personality for a
reason.
So enjoy that.
(36:56):
It's not just to be throughgoing through struggle all the
time, right, and yes, we mighthave chosen really difficult
soul contracts to come into, buteven within, knowing that we
can alchemize our soul contractsby learning through the process
and the healing of that, andknowing that you are in
alignment with it.
(37:16):
And so, if you don't know whatyour soul contract is, it's like
kind of start to pinpointcertain aspects of your life.
Who did you meet that broughtyou here, that created that that
you know?
If I wouldn't have done this,this could not have happened,
right?
So what we do sometimes is webecome the victim of that and
we're like well, that happened,so this happened, and it becomes
(37:38):
this domino effect Instead,reverse it, bring it into power
for yourself and find themessages in it and say, oh, if
that didn't happen, I would havenever been in alignment for
this opportunity, for that job,to meet that person, to meet my
husband, my wife, whatever it is, because that's how life works.
We have to go through certainexperiences to get us where
(37:59):
we're needing to go, and that'show life works.
We have to go through certainexperiences to get us where
we're needing to go, and that'salways in that full alignment.
So when you're sitting intraffic and you're angry and
you're feeling all theseemotions and you're in your own
box, you're in your car, feelingall these emotions.
That's you speaking to you Likecalm down, right.
You speaking to you like calmdown, right.
(38:22):
Whatever's going on out thereis not as important as what's
going on in here.
So if you're screaming atyourself in the car because you
think the person next to you isgoing to feel or hear that
they're not, they're not payingattention to you because they're
paying attention to themselves.
They're wrapped up in their ownemotions and their own reality,
right?
They probably don't even knowyou exist and that you're even
mad over there.
So it really is coming back intothat balance of self.
(38:45):
And why am I feeling what I'mfeeling?
What in me is so angry that Igot to be having road rage or I
got to feel like I'm pressed fortime to hurry up, to get like
nowhere really.
You know, it's like the journeyis the process, and that's what
we need to focus on is what isyour journey, where is it taking
you and what is the end goalfor you?
(39:06):
And if it's to be pissed andangry all the way to the end,
that's a really difficult way toget through life.
So, find that balance withinyourself so that you can be in
harmony the best way that youcan.
So when you arrive to yourdestination, you're as put
together as you can be right.
It's not fragmented out.
You are a whole being, andcoming is showing up in your
(39:29):
whole experience and your wholeenergy.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
And knowing that you are worth, that you are worth
the experience of not feelingfragmented Again.
Not that you're ever broken,not that you ever need to be
fixed, but we can feel that way.
Right, and there's this amazingbook called the Four Agreements
, which, if you guys haven'tread, highly recommend.
He talks about exactly whatChantel and I have been talking
about, especially this idea thatour words have power, that they
(39:54):
are like spells or likecontracts that we're making not
only with the world around us,but especially with ourselves.
And we can see this mirrored inneurology, with the fact that
our brain doesn't know thedifference between a thought or
a memory or a daydream andwhat's actually happening in the
world around us.
So think about the fact thatwhen you're sitting, we'll go
(40:15):
with Chantel's example in yourcar, feeling angry.
Right, it's not having animpact on the person that you're
angry at.
Maybe it is through, you know,the ripples of energy.
Maybe it knocks them a littlebit out of alignment too, but
what it's really doing is it'spulling you out of alignment and
it's making your physiology,your psychology, your energy
feel that negativity, feel thatdiscord, feel that fire that is
(40:39):
so destructive and that can pullus out of alignment, when we
could be spending that timecoming back into connection with
the flow and one of my favoriteways to do this, as we're
talking about alchemizing thingsand coming back to ourselves,
because I think it is soimportant to have tangible tools
that we can walk away with fromconversations like this.
First, we have that, like wewere saying, just asking
(41:01):
yourself, what do I need rightnow.
But I also really love bringingthis into the shamanic realm
with the four elements andthinking about we have air, we
have fire, we have water, wehave earth from a shamanic
perspective, and so we can seeanger, to use that example, as
that fire, that flame, isburning.
(41:21):
It is burning you up.
It is burning up your energy,it's burning up all of your
happiness.
It's burning up all of your joy.
It's burning up a little bit ofyour soul.
It is leaving you feelingfragmented.
So what does that fire need tocome back into balance?
Maybe you need to add in somemore of that water element.
Where can you add in that flowor that creativity?
(41:42):
Or maybe you can even justdrink a glass of water, right?
Or if we're feeling really downin the dumps, right, we're just
feeling really heavy, we'refeeling like there's no point.
We're just feeling like I don'teven want to move, I don't want
to get up, I don't want to getout of bed.
That's a very heavy earthfeeling, right, there's too much
grounding happening there.
So what do we need?
Maybe we need more of that air.
Maybe we need to take some deepbreaths.
(42:04):
Maybe we need to think abouthow can we bring more of that
whimsy and that lightness intoour life.
Can you go connect with the sun?
Right, we see sunlightconnected with the air because
those beams are carried throughit, right?
Where can we bring in thatenergy?
And we can even bring this intoour Reiki practice.
(42:25):
From a shamanic perspective, ifwe want to lean into the
shamanic Reiki side of, ifyou're experiencing a lot of
that anger or that heat, can youkind of cool your Reiki with
that water?
Can you bring in the intentionof water?
Can you imagine filling up yourbody with a cool stream of
water?
Or, again, if you're feelingthat grounding, can you
visualize that air blowingthrough and blowing away the
leaves, blowing away the dirt,blowing away the muck, so that
(42:48):
once again you can come backinto balance?
And maybe this looks differentfor you, right?
Maybe you don't use the fourelements.
I just love that one because Ithink it's a really tangible,
easy example of how we can startto notice ourselves in the
present moment and notice whatdo I need to come back into
balance, not what do I need toheal, not what needs to be fixed
, but in this moment, how can Ibalance this?
(43:09):
How can I allow myself torelease, to let go of what needs
to be let go of, to bring inthat balance and that alignment
where it needs to be brought in,so that I can fully experience
this moment in the wholeness ofwho I am?
Exactly like Chantel was sayingwhat about you, chantel?
What are some of your favoriteways to come back into alignment
?
Speaker 2 (43:29):
Definitely I love the element, so that's always like
on fire with that.
I love to.
My rituals are to burn thingsand to let it release.
That way.
I love sitting by water.
I'll go and just put my feet inthe pool or go to a river, go
somewhere.
There's always.
Waters are always calling me.
(43:51):
This weekend, when I was at myretreat, we were in the wind and
you know it's funny, it's likethe wind really upsets people
sometimes and I find that sointeresting.
I'm like, oh, there's so muchemotion around you and being in
wind, but I love it because it'sthe only time you really get to
visualize the earth being fullyalive.
Right, the leaves are moving,the bushes are moving,
(44:12):
everything is moving in a flow.
And so when my son was here andyou know he was deaf and
everything that's one of thethings that him and I would go
do and that was a great likebringing in harmony and
balancing between us because wewould go outside and be in the
wind and connect with the earthand just watch everything move.
And so this weekend or thisweek when I was sitting in, that
(44:35):
it was just a great reminderfor me and it really brought in
that balance because you get totune in, kind of like, to your
inner child, right, and so ifyou're going to any of the
elements, be playful with it.
It's not.
It doesn't always have to beserious work, and I think a lot
of times we create suchseriousness and we become so
(44:55):
serious about everything thatwe're doing.
And it is about being fun, it isabout bringing in that inner
child aspect of yourself andsaying I really am creating this
into being something so muchbigger than it was, you know,
and that's our ego, that's ourmind, that's us trying to
control the situation.
So when we release that and weallow ourselves just to be in
(45:17):
flow and harmony and balance,there's so much more magic in
that than trying to controlevery aspect of our life and
feeling like we have to andprocess everything that we have
gone through.
And that is that healingprocess, right when you feel
like I got to be here, I got toprocess, I got to analyze, I got
to heal it, and sometimes youcan just release it.
(45:38):
Sometimes you can just say Ican pick that up later, and if I
don't need to pick it up later,that's perfect, because that's
also in alignment with me and solet yourself, just be in the
moment of fun and go out andconnect with all the elements,
because they all are so powerfulin their own way.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
And notice how, if, in that idea of can I just let
myself release it, can I letmyself experience it now, let it
go if I want to come back to it, if I want to, is there a
feeling of, oh no, I can't dothat, I have to fix it now.
Is there something about yourself-worth or your identity
that's caught up in the idea ofhow would it feel if you let
(46:18):
yourself just let it go for aday, instead of trying to fix it
, instead of trying to get tothe root, instead of digging at
it, if you just let yourselffeel the emotion, acknowledge it
, breathe through it, bringyourself back into balance,
however that looks for you, andthen move on?
How would that feel?
Are you allowed to let yourselflet things go is a really
(46:40):
interesting question that comesup when we have this
conversation.
But all of these, all of thesetips, are amazing ways to start
shifting from this idea ofhealing to aligning, knowing
that, at the end of the day, thecore message here is that
there's nothing wrong with you,you're not broken, you don't
need to be fixed, you're nevergoing to be done, because
(47:00):
there's no me now and me then.
There's no broken me and wholeme.
There's no in need of healingand healed me, there's just you,
exactly as you are right nowwalking along that spiral,
experiencing this life.
So please don't miss theexperience of living, thinking
(47:22):
that when you're finally healed,when you've let this thing go,
when your trauma is gone, whenthis limiting belief isn't
holding you anymore, then you'llget to experience is gone, when
this limiting belief isn'tholding you anymore, then you'll
get to experience.
Don't treat wherever you are inlife as this transition or as
this pausing point or as thisplace where you're in process.
Right, it's okay to be inprocess, it's okay to learn.
But when we say that, you know,we kind of put ourselves on the
(47:44):
back burner until we're healed,until we're done, until whatever
it is that we think is going tohappen at the end of this
happens and then we can finallylive life.
Don't do that because you'regoing to look back and think
there wasn't an end, it didn'tstop.
And I missed so much because Ithought that if I could just get
(48:05):
it all out of the way, if Icould just dig it all up, if I
could just do all the work now,then I'd be able to enjoy things
more.
That's not how it works.
That enjoyment, that experience,that presence comes from being
in the present exactly as youare, knowing that, no matter how
much excavating or processingor anything you do, it's not
(48:26):
going to change your ability toreconnect, to realign, to sit in
the present and find the joy inthat, because you are just you,
wonderful, beautiful, worthy,you having this experience
exactly as you are right now andno matter what that experience
looks like for you, it's worthyand it's enough because it's you
(48:47):
and it's your experience andyou're allowed to let yourself
be exactly where you are neveran end to it.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
You are, in some ways , sabotaging your experience and
your life, right, because we'rejust following that one stream
(49:20):
of thought and healing and so wedon't need to do that.
You just go through the seasonsof what it is, but at some
point we do just need to say Iam good, exactly where I am, and
whatever I have experienced hasno reason to be controlling my
life right now.
Right, because it's alreadypassed, it's already done.
So being in our moment reallydoes bring forward the life
(49:43):
experiences that we want.
So it's creating it.
It's creating it and lettingwhatever has happened go, but
just create whatever you need inthe moment, and that is living.
That is exactly what you need,and it's okay if you're just
sitting with your tea, if you'resitting with your food and
you're eating with intention,you're loving with intention.
(50:04):
If you're living life in anintentional way.
There is so much power andgrace in that and so much like
gifting to yourself because youare being intentional with it
instead of being like, oh, go,go, go, go, go and oh, I'll fix
that and I got to fix that.
No, no, no, come back.
I'm going to be intentional,like today.
(50:25):
Give yourself a period of timewhere you sit with your
intention of just being in themoment, whatever it is that you
choose to do, but be intentionaland see how you feel.
Give yourself a timeline.
I'm going to sit with intentionfor 30 minutes and whatever you
choose to do in that 30 minutesand see how you feel at the end
of it and if your mind keepstrying to take you somewhere
(50:47):
else, redirect yourself.
Come back to intention and sitwith yourself whatever it is and
be in your present moment andlet us know how you that felt.
Let us know if you see anythingwithin yourself that shifts
within a 30 minute period.
Speaker 1 (51:03):
I love that.
I love that idea of 30 minutesof intention and the flip side
of that that I want to bring upbefore we close out this
conversation is in the midst ofthat being intentional, in the
midst of being present withyourself, in the midst of
allowing yourself to come backinto alignment and balance,
however that looks for you inthe moment.
Can you also allow yourself totrust yourself, your soul, the
(51:27):
divine universe, god, source,spirit, whatever word resonates
for you?
Can you allow yourself to trustyour soul, the divine universe,
god, source, spirit, whateverword resonates for you?
Can you allow yourself to trustyour soul and the divine to
bring up the things that need tobe healed, when they need to be
healed?
I think so often we continue topush, we continue to search, we
continue to heal, thinking againthat if we can just pull it all
up, then we'll get to be done.
(51:48):
Can you allow yourself to trustthat what needs to come up will
come up when it needs to, whenit's ready to be healed, and
that you can just let yourselfsit in the journey and the flow
of that?
We know this with our nervoussystem right.
Our nervous system brings upemotions and experiences when
they're ready to be processed,when we have enough stamina and
capacity for them to be healed.
(52:09):
Can we do the same thing withour trauma, with our limiting
beliefs, with our emotions, withwhatever it is for you, that
thing that your brain is alwaystrying to fix or make better?
Can you let yourself lean intotrust as you're doing your 30
minutes of intention, as you'relooking to the elements to bring
balance back in, as you'reasking yourself what is it that
I need right now, and allowingyourself to hear the answer?
(52:32):
Can you also allow yourself totrust that in that process, in
that experience, in thatshaman's ladder, what needs to
come up will come up, what needsto be processed will be
processed, what needs to behealed will be healed.
But let yourself know thatthat's not the point.
The point is to experience itand trust that you'll experience
(52:52):
everything you need toexperience along the way,
exactly when you need to.
Speaker 2 (52:58):
Yes, beautiful, this was a great conversation.
Yeah, this was wonderful,there's a lot of insight in it?
Speaker 1 (53:04):
Yes, and we would love to know what resonated for
you.
Did you do your 30 minutes ofintention?
Have you started thinking moreabout the shaman's ladder or
asking yourself what you need inthis present moment?
What parts of your self-worthare tied up in this idea of
constantly healing?
How would it feel to shift fromhealing to aligning?
All of these questions we wouldlove to hear your answers to
(53:27):
over in our Moon Rising ShamanicMystics Facebook group, or you
can send us an email at mysticsat moonrisinginstitutecom.
We would love to hear from youand keep this conversation going
, because we really are callingfor a movement here, people, of
let's shift from healing intoaligning, into knowing that
we're worthy, knowing that we'reenough and allowing ourselves
(53:47):
to fully experience this onewild and precious life that we
have, this one chance toexperience this human, this life
this time, this unfoldingexactly as it is, and allowing
ourselves to know that it'senough, no matter what it is.
Speaker 2 (54:06):
I love that this human Connect with this human,
this one, right here, right now.
I love that this human, thishuman, connect with this human,
this one, right here, right now.
Speaker 1 (54:12):
Beautiful, so we would love to hear from you.
We hope that you enjoyedtoday's conversation and took
some insight and hope andinspiration from it, and until
next time, may you awaken to thewhispers of wisdom rising from
within.
Thanks for tuning in to today'sshow.
The Wisdom Rising podcast issponsored by Moon Rising
(54:35):
Shamanic Institute.
If you enjoyed this episode, besure to subscribe to the show
on your favorite podcasting appand be the first to know when we
release a new episode.
You can find us on Instagram,facebook, youtube and TikTok at
Moon Rising Institute, or visitour website
moonrisinginstitutecom to learnmore about our mission and find
(54:57):
future opportunities to connectwith our community of shamanic
mystics.
Once again, thank you forsharing space with us today, and
until next time, may you awakento the whispers of wisdom
rising from within.
It's time to remember your divine purpose and
limitless potential.
Welcome to Wisdom Rising, theofficial podcast of Moon Rising
Shamanic Institute.
Join shamanic Reikipractitioners Christine Rene,
isabel Wells and Chantel Ochoaas we guide you on a journey of
radical self-discovery andspiritual guidance.
(00:26):
Each week, we'll dance throughthe realms of shamanism,
mysticism, energy, healing andpersonal development to
illuminate your path to truehealing and self-sourced wisdom
Through weekly inspiredconversations and interviews
with leading spiritual andshamanic practitioners.
We are here to help youacknowledge, reconcile and
(00:49):
balance your energy so that youcan awaken to the whispers of
wisdom rising from within.
Welcome back to another amazingepisode here on the Wisdom
Rising podcast.
I'm your host for today, isabelWells, and in this episode, I'm
(01:11):
joined with Chantel Ochoa as wetalk on a topic that has become
really near and dear to both ofour hearts the concept of
healing versus aligning.
Why we need to shift from theconcept of healing to the
concept of aligning versusaligning.
Why we need to shift from theconcept of healing to the
concept of aligning, and exactlyhow to do that.
(01:31):
If you've watched some of ourrecent YouTube videos, you have
heard me share why I'm callingfor a movement to shift us away
from healing and towardsalignment.
The spiritual community isknown for supporting spiritual
seekers through their healingjourney, and this journey is
valuable and important andempowering.
But when we constantly aretelling ourselves that we are in
the midst of healing, we'realso subconsciously installing
the belief that we are in needof fixing, that we're broken and
(01:53):
one day we'll be healed, andthat belief can often shift us
away from living a trulyempowered and embodied life.
And so in today's conversation,we talk about why shifting away
from healing and towardsaligning is so important in
helping us walk our passion andpurpose, and how we can
recalibrate in every moment sothat we can truly experience the
(02:15):
beauty of being alive here onthis earth at this time and
allow ourselves to fullyexperience the life that is
happening right in front of us.
So I hope that you enjoytoday's episode, but before we
dive in, I do want to give youan update on some of the amazing
offerings that we have for youall here in our community.
If you are part of the MoonRising Shamanic Mystics Facebook
(02:36):
group, you'll know that we havea fantastic webinar coming up
on May 29th with our visionaryChristine Rene.
Christine has spent the lastseveral weeks in Japan on a
pilgrimage to the birthplace ofReiki and on May 29th, at 5 pm
Mountain Time, 7 pm Eastern Time, she's offering a free webinar
diving into the question why didUsui go to Mount Kurama?
(02:58):
If you've ever wondered why hetook this journey, what the
purpose was, or how Reiki'sroots in Japanese Buddhism and
shamanism influenced thepractice, this is your chance to
find out.
This webinar will dive into theorigins of Reiki, how and why
Eastern and Western Reikidivided, what the original Reiki
teachings tell us about thepractice, and so much more.
(03:20):
So if you are interested injoining Christine for this free
webinar on May 29th the linkwill be in the show notes Please
be sure to register so that youcan get the link both to join
us live and for the recording.
If you can't make us live, andif this topic is really
fascinating for you and you wantto learn more about Eastern
Reiki versus Western Reiki andreceive your Reiki master
(03:42):
teacher training while you're atit, christine does have a Reiki
Fusion master teacher trainingstarting on June 5th.
You guys will be meeting everyThursday and Christine will be
offering all of the insights,knowledge and wisdom that she is
bringing back with her fromMount Karama and infusing it
into her Reiki master teachertraining.
(04:02):
So, whether you're looking tore-sit your master training or
you're a level two ready to stepinto that master teacher
training so whether you'relooking to reset your master
training or you're a level twoready to step into that master
teacher role, this class is afantastic place to start.
The link to learn more and saveyour seat is in the show notes
as well.
And, of course, if you haven'talready, be sure to join us in
our Moon Rising Shamanic MysticsFacebook group.
This amazing community of over4,000 individuals are walking
(04:26):
this path with you, asking thequestions you're asking and
experiencing that alignment andhealing that we're going to be
talking about in today's episode.
Along the way, be sure that yousubscribe to us on our YouTube
channel, but also to thispodcast, so that you can get
access to new episodes sooner.
We would love to hear your toptakeaways from today's episode
(04:46):
over in the Facebook group, oryou can send us an email at
mystics atmoonrisinginstitutecom.
But without further ado, let'sgo to the show.
Welcome, welcome back toanother amazing conversation.
I am so excited, as always, tobe joined with Chantel today,
and today we're going to betalking about why we need to,
(05:07):
why we're calling for a shiftfrom saying that we're on a
healing journey, or saying thatwe're healing, to focusing on
alignment and saying that we'rein the process of aligning.
We recently talked about this,christine and I, on a YouTube
video where we were answering acommunity question asking if we
ever have days where our energyjust isn't flowing.
(05:27):
So if you haven't seen thatYouTube video, check it out.
Link is in the chat in the shownotes.
But today's conversation isreally an encore to that of
really exploring why we'recalling for this shift from
healing to aligning, and this issomething that I have been
really passionate about lately.
If you watch that YouTube video, you'll hear me kind of call
(05:49):
for a movement about this shift,and it's because, yes, there
are absolutely certain timeswhere we truly are healing.
Right, like, let's say that wehave, you know, if you're in the
middle of a season of PTSD orif you have a physical illness
like a broken arm or a chronicdisease or an autoimmune or
something like this.
Right, there are times in ourlives where we truly are healing
(06:11):
.
We're in a state of crisis,we're in a state of really acute
imbalance and we need to takeimmediate action to restore that
balance.
But when we say that we're onthis healing journey, right, or
you know it's coming up so itcan be healed, all of these
things, and we continue to dothis for multiple, multiple
years at a time, or even ourentire lifetime what ends up
(06:33):
happening?
Is that what we're reallysaying?
When we say, well, I'm healing,or I'm on my healing journey,
et cetera, et cetera, is whatwe're actually saying is there
is part of me that's broken andneeds to be fixed, and one day
it will be fixed, aka one day Iwill be better than I am right
now.
And so we've got this multitudeof implications that we don't
(06:54):
even realize.
We're saying right, but toimply, to say this needs healed,
I need healed, I'm on myhealing journey is implying one,
that there's some part of usthat is broken or less than or
not enough.
Two, that at some point thatpart will be fixed or that we
will finally be good enough.
And three, that at some pointour healing journey will be done
(07:16):
right.
And I know that everybodylistening is probably going no,
that's not at all.
What I mean when I say I'mhealing, and that's the point is
, it's not conscious right, it'snot the front-facing side of
that affirmation.
It's a beautiful thing to saythat you're on a healing journey
, to have that self-compassionof saying I'm working on myself,
I'm trying to get better, I'mworking on releasing all of
(07:37):
these things that are holding meback, but the subconscious
implication is that something'sbroken and one day will be fixed
.
And I really firmly believethat if we kind of hold on to
this idea of healing as achronic life sentence, if you
will right, like this thing thatwe're always constantly doing,
we're doing ourselves adisservice because we are,
(07:59):
little by little, reinstallingthe belief that we are not
enough as we are right now.
We're reinstalling the beliefthat we're not enough as we are
right now.
We're reinstalling the beliefthat we're going to be done one
day and therefore, right now weneed to be fixed.
We need to do more, we need tobe more, we need to release this
limiting belief.
We need to love ourselves more,we need to love others more.
We need to do more in order tobe worthy, in order to be enough
(08:23):
, in order to be worthy, inorder to be enough, in order to
be accepted or okay.
And we also use it as thisalmost like making up for
ourselves of like I canrecognize that that needs to be
healed, right?
How many times do we use thatin your own words, right?
But this idea of I see thatthat's on me, I'm working on it
or I'm healing it or it's justpart of the process, and feel
(08:47):
like if we didn't say that, thenit's uncomfortable because we
kind of have to explain, we haveto justify yes, okay, I did
this thing, but I can recognizeit's part of my healing journey
and it's a little bit ofspiritual bypassing sometimes,
right, and these are broadstrokes, generalizations that
we're making here.
Obviously, there are exceptions,obviously everyone is on their
(09:08):
own journey.
But what we're talking about intoday's conversation is this
kind of epidemic that we're inright now of believing that we
constantly need to be healed,and I really do think that in a
lot of ways, it's holding usback because, again, it's
reinstalling that belief thatsomehow we're not enough right
now.
And so we're calling for thisshift towards saying that we're
(09:30):
aligning, or saying that we'refocusing on alignment, to really
recognize that every moment isan opportunity to come back to
balance, that we're never goingto be done because we're not
broken now, we don't need to befixed because we are whole as we
are right now.
Yes, there are going to betimes where we're welcoming
parts of ourselves home or we'recoming back into connection
(09:50):
with ourselves, but it's all inservice of that alignment,
because every single moment inyour life is just as valuable as
the next.
But oftentimes we put ourselveskind of on a shelf, saying that
we're healing so that one day,when we're healed, then we'll be
able to fully enjoy life, thenwe'll be able to step into the
role that we really want to door have the job we really want
(10:13):
to have or live the life thatwe're going to have, because
we'll be healed, we'll be enough, we'll be done.
And I think if we could shiftfrom that perspective into
saying what does alignment looklike for you right now?
What would it look like to comeback into connection with
yourself, with source, withnature right now, not saying
that you're going to be done,not saying that this is going to
(10:34):
last forever, not saying thatthere's even something broken or
needing to be fixed in thismoment, but just saying that as
humans, we are constantlysearching for balance and can we
bring this idea of a healingjourney that spans everything we
experienced in the past andsays that in the future it'll be
healed and bring it back intothe present and say what do we
need right now to come back intoalignment, to come back into
(10:56):
connection.
And so that's, at 1111 my time,what we're talking about today.
Chantel, what thoughts do youhave on that?
Speaker 2 (11:03):
I actually have a lot of thoughts on it.
I truly do believe in the powerof our words, and how we state
or how we call in our healing,how we call in our alignment, is
that they're kind of likespells, if you will right.
So the words that we state isare we chasing or retracting,
(11:24):
are we in this space of being,or are we always like looking
for something more?
Like kind of what you'reexplaining it's when we are
healing?
Yes, it is, there is time andspace for that.
But really every time, like ING, right, that is in process, we
are doing it, we're movingforward with it.
So you're always chasing thathealed version of yourself,
(11:46):
versus saying I am in alignmentright now, Even if we are
dealing with a chronic illnessor an autoimmune or a cold or
something, that in itself isstill in alignment because
there's a lesson, there's asomething in it that we are
learning from, whether it'slearning how to communicate with
our body.
So our body is telling us hey,you know what we're not doing
(12:06):
really well right now, likeyou're too stressed, you're too
overwhelmed, you got too muchgoing on, so I'm going to shut
down by becoming sick or havinga cold or whatever.
So there's rest, so there'stime to take care of yourself,
to nurture yourself, and that isthe process of healing.
But it's also the process ofbeing in alignment with where
(12:27):
you are and where your life is.
So sometimes, like getting sickis kind of a chin check in life
to say hey, it's too much, thisis way too much, or you are
bypassing your healing andyou're not looking at your
physical health and you're notsaying you know what?
(12:52):
I got to clear some stuff frommy plate.
It is overwhelming, right.
And so it is talking to ourselfin a way that is in alignment
to where you want to be andwhere you are currently.
And so I don't think that.
And it doesn't just meanonaling, it can be with work, it
can be family situations, itreally is in flow with so many
aspects of our life.
But it's knowing that whereveryou are right now is in
alignment where you're meant tobe.
(13:14):
And so, if we're always chasingsomething, we're never in the
present moment.
We're always worrying about thefuture, we're always depressed
about the past.
You know, we bring in a lot ofdifferent emotions of you know,
like shame or guilt or sadness,whatever the past has provided.
And then, when we're chasingthe future.
We don't know what the futureholds, so we might have this
(13:35):
expectation of what we think isgoing to happen and then
suddenly, everything changes andwhat it could either become
better than we expected changesand what it could either become
better than we expected, rightor it's it doesn't meet the
expectations that we had.
Therefore, disappointment comesforward.
So it really is tuning into thealignment of where we are right
now and knowing whether it'swe're feeling good about it or
(13:58):
we're feeling excited about it.
Either way, there's somethingin it for us to to learn about,
to recognize, to kind of youknow, I don't want to be like
analyze it in the mental body ofit, but in your heart, you know
, come to it from a heart basedperspective and analyze it from
there.
Why am I feeling this?
(14:19):
Why am I, you know, why am Ibeing like, expressing this
emotion or experiencing this?
And so it really is coming toalignment so that we can stand
in our true, authentic positionright now.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
And I love what you said about there's always
something that we can learn fromthis.
So there's always something wecan pull from this situation,
because I think so often, whenwe're focused on healing right,
if a negative emotion comes upor we have a difficult
experience or we're having asituation or a pattern that's a
little bit chronic or recurringcome up again, we start to beat
(14:59):
up on ourselves a little bit, westart to should ourselves about
well, I should be better by now, I should be healed by now.
I shouldn't be feeling thisbecause, again, I should be
healed, I should be in alignment, and we start to take away from
the value of that moment.
One of the most common timesthat I see this come up in our
students is if they're in aperiod of questioning, right, so
(15:23):
maybe they want to know what todo about their job, or they're
unhappy in their relationship,or they have something happening
with their physical body andthey just can't quite find the
answer right.
So there's this negativepattern, in whichever area of
life it's in, and they can'tfind how they're going to
resolve it, how they're going tountie the knot, and a lot of
times I think everybody canrelate to that feeling of
(15:46):
feeling like I need to figure itout, I need to fix it, I need
to resolve the negativity,resolve the energetic block,
resolve the limiting belief,whatever it is, so that I can
get over it, so that I can getthrough it, I can get to the
next stage.
And I always remind them of twothings.
First is that, from a shamanicperspective, this period in life
where you were between twoplaces you weren't quite where
(16:09):
you used to be, but you're alsonot quite where you're going was
called the betwixt and betweenstage, and it was considered
this amazing time of personaltransformation and potential,
because it was in thatin-between stage that all of the
magic was manifested, that allof the unknown could come
through.
We talked in a previous podcastepisode about when you go
(16:30):
shopping at Target right, andyou have your list and, yeah,
you get the stuff that's on yourlist.
But what we all really loveabout Target is the fact that
you walk in and you have no ideawhat you're going to walk out
with.
Right, the magic of Targethappens and you find something
that you didn't know you neededuntil you see it.
And that's that theory of thebetwixt and between is.
We can think we know what wewant, we can think we know, like
(16:51):
you said, what's going tohappen next.
We can think we understandwhere our life trajectory is
supposed to go, but until westep into that phase of betwixt,
and between, there areunlimited potentials that our
mind has never even thought of,let alone thought that we were
worthy of, that, were possible,et cetera, et cetera.
And so that period is thisreally powerful and potent time
(17:15):
of transformation.
We have to let ourselves sit inthe unknown in order to feel
those things come to us.
But the other thing I remindthem of is, typically, as a
spiritual seeker right, we havethis belief that we are exactly
where we're supposed to be inevery moment.
Right, and that means that wehave this belief that in every
moment, we have everything thatwe need.
Right, that means that in everymoment, we have all of the
(17:39):
answers, we have all of theinformation, we have all of the
healing, we have all of theresources, we have all of the
information, we have all of thehealing, we have all of the
resources, we have all of theeverything that we could ever
need.
And so, if we are feeling anintense emotion, if we are stuck
in a period of questioning.
If we feel like we're a littleout of balance right now, it's
not because we're doing anythingwrong, it's not because we're
missing something.
(17:59):
It's because there is somethingfor us in that discomfort, in
that questioning, in thatemotion, in that situation that,
if we allowed ourselves to bepresent with it, to be curious
about it and to have truecompassion for ourselves, in
that, that's where the learningis going to come from, that's
where the shift is going to comefrom is allowing ourselves to
(18:21):
sit exactly where we are in thepresent and really look at what
do I need in this moment?
What is coming to me in thismoment?
I always like to ask my studentswhat's the present of the
present moment, what's the giftthat this situation is giving
you?
And I think so often when we'refocused on healing, we're
focused on fixing the negativeemotion, we're focused on
(18:42):
letting go of the limitingbelief or finding the root and
digging it out or fixing thesituation.
But when we can come back intoa focus on alignment and what we
mean by alignment, I'd love toexplore that with you a little
bit too.
When we talk about alignment,we mean again that reconnection
to your true self, thatreconnection to the divine, that
(19:02):
reconnection to all that iswhatever that is for you, and
getting back into alignment withthe flow of life, so you're not
resisting it, right?
It's not like we're a rock inthe middle of the river.
We are the river, we are backand connected with that flow,
and that looks different foreverybody.
But when we're focused on thatidea of alignment, we're no
longer trying to get rid of thenegative emotion or to fix the
(19:23):
situation or to negateeverything that we're
experiencing right.
We're no longer saying, in somecapacity, this situation is
wrong or bad or needs to befixed.
We're saying this situation,this emotion, everything I'm
experiencing right now is worthy, it has value.
There is a reason for this.
Can I let myself sit with it todiscover all of the potential
(19:46):
and, like you were saying, allof the lessons that this has for
me, so that I can really notonly honor this situation and
honor what it's bringing up forme, but I can come back into
alignment by not putting myselfin the past and trying to figure
out where it's coming from, orprojecting myself in the future
and trying to figure out whathappens next, but truly sitting
with what is happening right now, because at the end of the day,
(20:09):
that's really where any kind ofhealing or aligning, or peace
or joy or happiness or anythingelse comes from is when we can
let ourselves sit in the presentmoment with ourselves, and I
think that's part of why thisshift from healing to aligning
is so important.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yeah, I love that Because it projects the idea
that we're broken, right, and ifwe're broken, then we're always
trying to fix it, we're alwaystrying to heal from it.
And so we aren't broken, we'rejust learning.
We're just on this humanjourney of experiencing ourself
and the different things thatcome into our life.
And so, yes, there are, like wesaid, periods of healing, but
(20:50):
beyond that, it's justself-awareness and knowing and
being able to sit with yourself,and that can be a scary thing.
There's a lot of people thatyou know don't want to sit with
themselves.
They're afraid of theirthoughts, their ideas, their
emotions, and you know ouremotions, yeah, they can be
really scary.
We don't want to sit withthemselves.
They're afraid of theirthoughts, their ideas, their
emotions, and you know ouremotions, yeah, they can be
really scary.
We don't know what's going tocome up.
We don't know what's going toshow up from the past.
(21:12):
Or you know, why are we feelinganxious?
Why are we feeling all theseemotions?
But that when we feel it, it'sbecause we it's ready to come up
.
And so what we do is we tend topack and suppress our emotions
and we hold on to them and thenthey go and they have to right.
And so that is alignment.
When you're in alignment withyour own self, you can sit in
(21:49):
your emotions, you can sit withyour thoughts and you don't have
to be afraid of yourself,because ourself is who we are,
with 24 seven.
You know 24 seven all the time.
And so, recognizing that inyourself, if you're afraid to
sit, do little things, you know,even if it's like turn the TV
off, turn the radio off, youknow.
Sit in silence just on yourcouch for 15, 20 minutes, let
(22:14):
whatever needs to come up, comeup journal on it, write it down
whatever it is you feel you needto do to release it, Do those
little things.
It's a step by step, but beforeyou know it, you can sit in
your silence all the time and itdoesn't matter, it will be okay
, because you look forward towhat is ready to come out and
ready to be released, becauseyou feel so much lighter.
(22:35):
And then you go back to the TV,you go back to scrolling
whatever it is, but it's reallysitting in the moment for a
minute and just saying I got meand I get to hold space for me
right now, because no one canhold space for you better than
yourself, and so when we canreally hold space for ourself,
our emotions, our experiences oflife, then that is when our
(22:57):
power really gets to show up forus and that's when we really do
feel like we're in alignment.
But what we a lot of times, ashumans, what do we do?
We're very external.
We're taking that externalworld.
We're seeking, you know,friendship and um, you know,
like, um, collaboration withpeople, conversations.
We take all of our internalworld and we want to bring it
(23:18):
out into the external and let'stalk about this.
But really talk with yourself,and going within is so powerful
that you have all the answers,Like you're talking about.
Everything you need is alreadyin you.
You just have to ask yourselfwhat are the answers that you're
seeking?
Speaker 1 (23:35):
And what you said about that feeling of I've got
me right.
I got chills with that becausewe don't think about this, right
.
We talk about self-love andself-compassion all of the time,
right.
But again, if we're reallylooking at from a psychological
perspective, what we're sayingwhen we're saying I'm healing or
I'm on my healing journey, isagain that idea like we've been
(23:55):
saying from the start that thereis part of me that needs to be
fixed.
There is part of me that isless than.
Does that sound like self-loveto you?
We think that self-love comesfrom healing by saying I want to
get better, I want to do more,I want to release the parts of
me that aren't in alignment, thelimiting beliefs.
I want to heal the trauma, Iwant to release the negative
(24:17):
emotions so that I can have ahappy life right.
But what we're really sayingagain at the end of the day is
there's part of me that isn'tworthy as it is right now.
That's not self-love, not true,unlimited, agape self-love,
right, that unconditionalself-love that comes from
alignment, from the ability tosay no matter where I am,
(24:39):
whether it's a joyful moment ora beautiful moment or a sad
moment or a scary moment or alimiting moment or something
that I could have maybe possiblydone better, doesn't matter.
No matter where you are, youare worthy to be seen and to be
witnessed in that, and you arethe only one that can fully
witness yourself in that.
Yes, going to other people andtalking and sharing your story
(25:03):
and listening to them is anamazing first step because it
brings us back into that senseof community.
It allows you to be seen.
But when we're talking aboutalignment, we're talking on a
deeper level, about your abilityto see and witness yourself,
which is the true roots ofself-love and self-compassion is
.
Can you sit with yourself, nomatter where you are?
(25:24):
And I always like to bring thisback because I'm me to like a
scientific, physiologicalperspective.
Right, we're all taught in highschool about homeostasis, our
body's ability to compensate forwhat's ever happening
physiologically to bring us backinto balance.
And that doesn't mean thateverything's going to compensate
for what's ever happeningphysiologically to bring us back
into balance.
And that doesn't mean thateverything's going to be in
harmony.
Right, sometimes our adrenalsmake up for the stress that
(25:47):
we're experiencing and that'show we get back into homeostasis
is by producing more stresshormones.
Right, because we're comingback into balance.
Balance doesn't necessarilymean harmony, but what that does
mean is that our bodies.
Balance doesn't necessarilymean harmony, but what that does
mean is that our bodies notonly physically, but also
psychologically, energetically,emotionally we are primed to try
(26:08):
to come back into balance, totry to come back into that state
of homeostasis, of optimalfunctioning.
And what that means is that ifwe allow ourselves to, like you
said, tune in and ask ourselveswhat do I need in this moment?
That's as simple as it gets tobe.
What do I need in this moment?
We inherently automaticallyknow why.
(26:28):
Because our systems are set upto bring us back into balance,
to keep us healthy, to bring usback into connection with the
flow of life.
Yes, our mind can have all ofthose stories and all of those
thoughts and all of thoselimiting beliefs that pull us
flow of life.
Yes, our mind can have all ofthose stories and all of those
thoughts and all of thoselimiting beliefs that pull us
out of it.
But when we truly take a momentto tune in, we know already
what we need.
And this is where cognitivedissonance comes in right.
(26:50):
Cognitive dissonance happenswhen your intuition is telling
you one thing and your mind istelling you something else.
And so anytime a student comesto me and says, well, I don't
know what my intuition is sayingabout this, or I don't know
what I'm supposed to do, or Idon't know how to fix it, it's
like, yeah, you do.
You wouldn't be struggling ifyou didn't.
What's causing that discord,what's causing that discomfort,
(27:11):
is not letting yourself hear theanswer.
That's coming from within you,and I think so often the reason
that that happens is because wehave a society that is so rooted
in keeping us from feelingself-love right Like, even when
we're talking about it.
In healing, we never think aboutit that way.
But then it's like you say itand you say yeah, but when we
(27:31):
say we're healing, that meansthere's part of us that's not
worthy right now.
And when you hear someone sayit, it's like, oh shit, no, that
is true.
Saying that we're healing,being stuck in this chronic
healing cycle, is constantlysaying that I'm not good enough
as I am now.
That's not true, unconditionalself-love.
When we can recognize that andwe can feel, even if it's just
(27:56):
that teeny, tiny piece of youwithin, that's saying you are
worth, that you do have value,you are allowed to feel that
self-love and compassion.
That's when the big shiftstarts to happen, where we can,
yes, continue on our journey ofexpansion.
Right In that YouTube video Imentioned Christine and I talk
about the shaman's ladder right.
So, if you think of a spiral, westart at the middle and as
(28:20):
we're walking, as we're havingthis human experience, we start
to spiral outward and we startto gain awareness and we start
to gain understanding and westart to have a broader scope of
experiences.
And that's why you know thereare times where you come back to
a trauma that you thought youhealed or a limiting belief that
you thought you had quoteunquote fixed.
It's not because you didn't doit right the first time, it's
because you're back at thatpoint on the spiral with an
(28:40):
expanded awareness, with moreunderstanding, with more
experience under your belt, sothat you can see it from a
different perspective.
And when we can take thatapproach, there is no end, there
is no purpose to I'm going toheal so that one day I can be
healed, because that's a myth.
Being healed doesn't exist.
There is just you on thisexperience, exactly as you are
(29:04):
and exactly as you will be inthe next step and the next step
and the next step, not becausethat you is more worthy or has
more value or has somehow beenfixed, but because you are
inherently worthy as someonehaving this experience.
What makes you worthy isn'twhat you do or what you've
(29:24):
healed, or what you think, orwhat you say, or how you're
acting in the world.
It's the fact that you exist,the fact that you are breathing,
the fact that you are alive,makes you inherently worthy.
The joy of walking along thatspiral is the fact that we get
to experience this lifetime,that we get to experience this
time-space reality, that we getto be this spiritual being
having that human experience.
(29:45):
And the human experience isthat unfolding, it is that
progression, it is thatevolution.
But it is not going from brokento fixed, because none of us
are broken, even when we feellike it.
Right and I say that as someonewho has felt broken many, many
times in my life right, but whenwe can let ourselves sit with
that feeling, when we can sit inthe betwixt and between where
(30:07):
we feel like maybe I'm notenough, maybe I'm not doing the
right things, maybe I should bedoing something different, when
we let ourselves sit with thatand recognize that just because
we're having those thoughts,just because that's happening in
our mental reality doesn't meanthat that's what's actually
happening in our physicalreality or our spiritual reality
.
It's a potential, right,because the thought is there.
(30:27):
It's a potential, but justbecause it's real up here
doesn't mean that it's true.
And when we can allow ourselvesto recognize that and sit with
it and say what do thesethoughts have for me right now?
Where are they leading me?
Where, on this spiral, on thisjourney, not of healing but of
alignment of experience, whereis this taking me?
And can I have true compassionfor myself, no matter where I am
(30:51):
in that process, to recognizethat where I am right now has
value, who I am right now hasworth.
I am right now has value, who Iam right now has worth, that I
am okay and enough.
And I get the joy ofexperiencing all of the emotions
and all of the questions andall of the answers and all of
the everything.
And I was talking to someoneabout this at the retreat that I
(31:12):
was just teaching at this ideathat we're not trying to
transcend, we're not trying toescape, we're not trying to get
out of our human selves, becauseif we were, we just wouldn't
have embodied in the first place.
Right, we start as spirit,we'll return to spirit.
This is like a nice briefvacation from our
non-embodiedness, right it is.
(31:33):
It's a vacation from the spiritworld.
Is it an easy vacation?
No, probably not.
But for all intents andpurposes it's a pause button
where we get to come in and weget to experience time.
We get to experience space, weget to experience physical
reality, we get to experiencewhat, in the spirit world, would
happen in an instant.
(31:53):
Right?
Our lifetime, our 80 to 100years of human life happens now
in the spirit world.
And so, when we become embodied,we step into this place where
time exists, where we get to seethe transitions and the
emotions and the growth and theevolution that, when we're in
the spirit world, just happen.
(32:14):
There is no process, there is noin between, it just is.
And so, as human beings, we getthe chance to step into this and
feel the discomfort andexperience the questioning, and
notice the emotions and see thebeauty that comes through when
we have those moments of clarityand of alignment and of saying,
oh my gosh, yes, that that'swhat I want, that's who I am,
(32:36):
that's where I'm going, notbecause where we are isn't good
enough, but because we are giventhis gift of being able to
experience the process.
And how often are we shortingourselves of that experience of
the process of the experience,by saying that I'm healing, by
saying that where I am right nowisn't enough.
I'm going to get where I needto go.
(32:57):
There's nowhere you need to goexcept where you are right now.
And that, to me, is the mostpowerful part of shifting from
saying I'm healing to saying I'maligning.
In this moment, I'm coming backinto alignment, I'm
reconnecting with thatunderstanding, I'm reconnecting
with the flow of life, I'mreconnecting and maybe
reconvincing myself of the factthat where I am right now is
(33:19):
enough, that I am enough andthat when I can drop into the
present, what's meant to happennext, the next step on that
shaman's ladder, on that spiral,will make itself clear, not
because I'm trying, not becauseI need to go somewhere next, but
because what happens next canonly be revealed to me if I'm
letting myself fully be in thepresent.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
I really like the idea of time-space and the
shaman's spiral for sure, butwith the time-space, when we're
talking about, that is knowingon the spiritual realm.
Yes, it is like a pinpoint,it's like one dot within our
spiritual experience, right, butin our human experience, with
time spaces, like that one dotis being straight.
(34:01):
This stretch is being expandedinto all of these slides of our
life, right, all of theseexperiences of our life, and so
at any point we can feel trappedor stuck or stagnant in our
life as we are expanding throughthis time space.
But when it's collapsed it'sjust like a moment, it's a blip,
and so the invitation is totake each process of life and be
(34:27):
in that moment and let youprocess through your emotions
and your thoughts, because ourmind really can keep us trapped
and stuck in that moment.
And then those energies are theemotions that follow with us
when we carry them into the nextlike segment of our life.
Really, we're just draggingthat past energy with us, and so
(34:48):
we can see it kind of like hereon Zoom, when we're in our own
you know our own square or inour own bubble.
We're standing in our own hoop.
We do not need to drag all ofthe past experiences with us
into the present, into thefuture, because that one's
already done.
It's kind of like watching amovie.
You know when you have thebeginning, the middle and the
(35:10):
end, the movie doesn't keepwrapping it up, it doesn't keep
dragging the beginning of themovie to the end of the movie.
You know there's segments,you're going through it and so
for us, as people, we need torecognize that in ourself.
Am I dragging the past with me?
Am I making my healing processeven more, like more of a
struggle, more strenuous?
Or am I able to be in alignmentand know that all the
(35:32):
experiences I've had were withpurpose and reason and I learned
through that?
Or certain people had to beremoved from my life because
they weren't in alignment withwhere I'm going?
And if it isn't in alignment,let it go, release it.
The people or the experiencesthat are meant to stay with you
will stay and if at some pointsomebody drops away, they will
(35:54):
come back if their alignment, iftheir frequency is meant to
match yours.
But if not, let it go, releaseit for a while and see where
life takes you Right.
And so it's really playing withthese different ideas and
concepts of what, like this timereality is what being in this
physical really means.
(36:14):
Like go enjoy the food joy,enjoy life.
Go travel to places you haven'tseen.
Like go enjoy the food joy,enjoy life.
Go travel to places you haven'tseen.
Go laugh at things that youknow might be inappropriate, but
they're fun to laugh at.
You know, like, whatever it isthat you're feeling, this is
your life to do it.
And so, when we do return backto spirit, when we do go back to
(36:35):
our natural, like essence ofwho we are, we have to
reincarnate and recycle throughthis whole process to fill this
again.
So it is like be who you are,the energy that you are here,
the personality, the avatar,however you want to put it.
You are embodied in this bodyand this personality for a
reason.
So enjoy that.
(36:56):
It's not just to be throughgoing through struggle all the
time, right, and yes, we mighthave chosen really difficult
soul contracts to come into, buteven within, knowing that we
can alchemize our soul contractsby learning through the process
and the healing of that, andknowing that you are in
alignment with it.
(37:16):
And so, if you don't know whatyour soul contract is, it's like
kind of start to pinpointcertain aspects of your life.
Who did you meet that broughtyou here, that created that that
you know?
If I wouldn't have done this,this could not have happened,
right?
So what we do sometimes is webecome the victim of that and
we're like well, that happened,so this happened, and it becomes
(37:38):
this domino effect Instead,reverse it, bring it into power
for yourself and find themessages in it and say, oh, if
that didn't happen, I would havenever been in alignment for
this opportunity, for that job,to meet that person, to meet my
husband, my wife, whatever it is, because that's how life works.
We have to go through certainexperiences to get us where
(37:59):
we're needing to go, and that'show life works.
We have to go through certainexperiences to get us where
we're needing to go, and that'salways in that full alignment.
So when you're sitting intraffic and you're angry and
you're feeling all theseemotions and you're in your own
box, you're in your car, feelingall these emotions.
That's you speaking to you Likecalm down, right.
You speaking to you like calmdown, right.
(38:22):
Whatever's going on out thereis not as important as what's
going on in here.
So if you're screaming atyourself in the car because you
think the person next to you isgoing to feel or hear that
they're not, they're not payingattention to you because they're
paying attention to themselves.
They're wrapped up in their ownemotions and their own reality,
right?
They probably don't even knowyou exist and that you're even
mad over there.
So it really is coming back intothat balance of self.
(38:45):
And why am I feeling what I'mfeeling?
What in me is so angry that Igot to be having road rage or I
got to feel like I'm pressed fortime to hurry up, to get like
nowhere really.
You know, it's like the journeyis the process, and that's what
we need to focus on is what isyour journey, where is it taking
you and what is the end goalfor you?
(39:06):
And if it's to be pissed andangry all the way to the end,
that's a really difficult way toget through life.
So, find that balance withinyourself so that you can be in
harmony the best way that youcan.
So when you arrive to yourdestination, you're as put
together as you can be right.
It's not fragmented out.
You are a whole being, andcoming is showing up in your
(39:29):
whole experience and your wholeenergy.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
And knowing that you are worth, that you are worth
the experience of not feelingfragmented Again.
Not that you're ever broken,not that you ever need to be
fixed, but we can feel that way.
Right, and there's this amazingbook called the Four Agreements
, which, if you guys haven'tread, highly recommend.
He talks about exactly whatChantel and I have been talking
about, especially this idea thatour words have power, that they
(39:54):
are like spells or likecontracts that we're making not
only with the world around us,but especially with ourselves.
And we can see this mirrored inneurology, with the fact that
our brain doesn't know thedifference between a thought or
a memory or a daydream andwhat's actually happening in the
world around us.
So think about the fact thatwhen you're sitting, we'll go
(40:15):
with Chantel's example in yourcar, feeling angry.
Right, it's not having animpact on the person that you're
angry at.
Maybe it is through, you know,the ripples of energy.
Maybe it knocks them a littlebit out of alignment too, but
what it's really doing is it'spulling you out of alignment and
it's making your physiology,your psychology, your energy
feel that negativity, feel thatdiscord, feel that fire that is
(40:39):
so destructive and that can pullus out of alignment, when we
could be spending that timecoming back into connection with
the flow and one of my favoriteways to do this, as we're
talking about alchemizing thingsand coming back to ourselves,
because I think it is soimportant to have tangible tools
that we can walk away with fromconversations like this.
First, we have that, like wewere saying, just asking
(41:01):
yourself, what do I need rightnow.
But I also really love bringingthis into the shamanic realm
with the four elements andthinking about we have air, we
have fire, we have water, wehave earth from a shamanic
perspective, and so we can seeanger, to use that example, as
that fire, that flame, isburning.
(41:21):
It is burning you up.
It is burning up your energy,it's burning up all of your
happiness.
It's burning up all of your joy.
It's burning up a little bit ofyour soul.
It is leaving you feelingfragmented.
So what does that fire need tocome back into balance?
Maybe you need to add in somemore of that water element.
Where can you add in that flowor that creativity?
(41:42):
Or maybe you can even justdrink a glass of water, right?
Or if we're feeling really downin the dumps, right, we're just
feeling really heavy, we'refeeling like there's no point.
We're just feeling like I don'teven want to move, I don't want
to get up, I don't want to getout of bed.
That's a very heavy earthfeeling, right, there's too much
grounding happening there.
So what do we need?
Maybe we need more of that air.
Maybe we need to take some deepbreaths.
(42:04):
Maybe we need to think abouthow can we bring more of that
whimsy and that lightness intoour life.
Can you go connect with the sun?
Right, we see sunlightconnected with the air because
those beams are carried throughit, right?
Where can we bring in thatenergy?
And we can even bring this intoour Reiki practice.
(42:25):
From a shamanic perspective, ifwe want to lean into the
shamanic Reiki side of, ifyou're experiencing a lot of
that anger or that heat, can youkind of cool your Reiki with
that water?
Can you bring in the intentionof water?
Can you imagine filling up yourbody with a cool stream of
water?
Or, again, if you're feelingthat grounding, can you
visualize that air blowingthrough and blowing away the
leaves, blowing away the dirt,blowing away the muck, so that
(42:48):
once again you can come backinto balance?
And maybe this looks differentfor you, right?
Maybe you don't use the fourelements.
I just love that one because Ithink it's a really tangible,
easy example of how we can startto notice ourselves in the
present moment and notice whatdo I need to come back into
balance, not what do I need toheal, not what needs to be fixed
, but in this moment, how can Ibalance this?
(43:09):
How can I allow myself torelease, to let go of what needs
to be let go of, to bring inthat balance and that alignment
where it needs to be brought in,so that I can fully experience
this moment in the wholeness ofwho I am?
Exactly like Chantel was sayingwhat about you, chantel?
What are some of your favoriteways to come back into alignment
?
Speaker 2 (43:29):
Definitely I love the element, so that's always like
on fire with that.
I love to.
My rituals are to burn thingsand to let it release.
That way.
I love sitting by water.
I'll go and just put my feet inthe pool or go to a river, go
somewhere.
There's always.
Waters are always calling me.
(43:51):
This weekend, when I was at myretreat, we were in the wind and
you know it's funny, it's likethe wind really upsets people
sometimes and I find that sointeresting.
I'm like, oh, there's so muchemotion around you and being in
wind, but I love it because it'sthe only time you really get to
visualize the earth being fullyalive.
Right, the leaves are moving,the bushes are moving,
(44:12):
everything is moving in a flow.
And so when my son was here andyou know he was deaf and
everything that's one of thethings that him and I would go
do and that was a great likebringing in harmony and
balancing between us because wewould go outside and be in the
wind and connect with the earthand just watch everything move.
And so this weekend or thisweek when I was sitting in, that
(44:35):
it was just a great reminderfor me and it really brought in
that balance because you get totune in, kind of like, to your
inner child, right, and so ifyou're going to any of the
elements, be playful with it.
It's not.
It doesn't always have to beserious work, and I think a lot
of times we create suchseriousness and we become so
(44:55):
serious about everything thatwe're doing.
And it is about being fun, it isabout bringing in that inner
child aspect of yourself andsaying I really am creating this
into being something so muchbigger than it was, you know,
and that's our ego, that's ourmind, that's us trying to
control the situation.
So when we release that and weallow ourselves just to be in
(45:17):
flow and harmony and balance,there's so much more magic in
that than trying to controlevery aspect of our life and
feeling like we have to andprocess everything that we have
gone through.
And that is that healingprocess, right when you feel
like I got to be here, I got toprocess, I got to analyze, I got
to heal it, and sometimes youcan just release it.
(45:38):
Sometimes you can just say Ican pick that up later, and if I
don't need to pick it up later,that's perfect, because that's
also in alignment with me and solet yourself, just be in the
moment of fun and go out andconnect with all the elements,
because they all are so powerfulin their own way.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
And notice how, if, in that idea of can I just let
myself release it, can I letmyself experience it now, let it
go if I want to come back to it, if I want to, is there a
feeling of, oh no, I can't dothat, I have to fix it now.
Is there something about yourself-worth or your identity
that's caught up in the idea ofhow would it feel if you let
(46:18):
yourself just let it go for aday, instead of trying to fix it
, instead of trying to get tothe root, instead of digging at
it, if you just let yourselffeel the emotion, acknowledge it
, breathe through it, bringyourself back into balance,
however that looks for you, andthen move on?
How would that feel?
Are you allowed to let yourselflet things go is a really
(46:40):
interesting question that comesup when we have this
conversation.
But all of these, all of thesetips, are amazing ways to start
shifting from this idea ofhealing to aligning, knowing
that, at the end of the day, thecore message here is that
there's nothing wrong with you,you're not broken, you don't
need to be fixed, you're nevergoing to be done, because
(47:00):
there's no me now and me then.
There's no broken me and wholeme.
There's no in need of healingand healed me, there's just you,
exactly as you are right nowwalking along that spiral,
experiencing this life.
So please don't miss theexperience of living, thinking
(47:22):
that when you're finally healed,when you've let this thing go,
when your trauma is gone, whenthis limiting belief isn't
holding you anymore, then you'llget to experience is gone, when
this limiting belief isn'tholding you anymore, then you'll
get to experience.
Don't treat wherever you are inlife as this transition or as
this pausing point or as thisplace where you're in process.
Right, it's okay to be inprocess, it's okay to learn.
But when we say that, you know,we kind of put ourselves on the
(47:44):
back burner until we're healed,until we're done, until whatever
it is that we think is going tohappen at the end of this
happens and then we can finallylive life.
Don't do that because you'regoing to look back and think
there wasn't an end, it didn'tstop.
And I missed so much because Ithought that if I could just get
(48:05):
it all out of the way, if Icould just dig it all up, if I
could just do all the work now,then I'd be able to enjoy things
more.
That's not how it works.
That enjoyment, that experience,that presence comes from being
in the present exactly as youare, knowing that, no matter how
much excavating or processingor anything you do, it's not
(48:26):
going to change your ability toreconnect, to realign, to sit in
the present and find the joy inthat, because you are just you,
wonderful, beautiful, worthy,you having this experience
exactly as you are right now andno matter what that experience
looks like for you, it's worthyand it's enough because it's you
(48:47):
and it's your experience andyou're allowed to let yourself
be exactly where you are neveran end to it.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
You are, in some ways , sabotaging your experience and
your life, right, because we'rejust following that one stream
(49:20):
of thought and healing and so wedon't need to do that.
You just go through the seasonsof what it is, but at some
point we do just need to say Iam good, exactly where I am, and
whatever I have experienced hasno reason to be controlling my
life right now.
Right, because it's alreadypassed, it's already done.
So being in our moment reallydoes bring forward the life
(49:43):
experiences that we want.
So it's creating it.
It's creating it and lettingwhatever has happened go, but
just create whatever you need inthe moment, and that is living.
That is exactly what you need,and it's okay if you're just
sitting with your tea, if you'resitting with your food and
you're eating with intention,you're loving with intention.
(50:04):
If you're living life in anintentional way.
There is so much power andgrace in that and so much like
gifting to yourself because youare being intentional with it
instead of being like, oh, go,go, go, go, go and oh, I'll fix
that and I got to fix that.
No, no, no, come back.
I'm going to be intentional,like today.
(50:25):
Give yourself a period of timewhere you sit with your
intention of just being in themoment, whatever it is that you
choose to do, but be intentionaland see how you feel.
Give yourself a timeline.
I'm going to sit with intentionfor 30 minutes and whatever you
choose to do in that 30 minutesand see how you feel at the end
of it and if your mind keepstrying to take you somewhere
(50:47):
else, redirect yourself.
Come back to intention and sitwith yourself whatever it is and
be in your present moment andlet us know how you that felt.
Let us know if you see anythingwithin yourself that shifts
within a 30 minute period.
Speaker 1 (51:03):
I love that.
I love that idea of 30 minutesof intention and the flip side
of that that I want to bring upbefore we close out this
conversation is in the midst ofthat being intentional, in the
midst of being present withyourself, in the midst of
allowing yourself to come backinto alignment and balance,
however that looks for you inthe moment.
Can you also allow yourself totrust yourself, your soul, the
(51:27):
divine universe, god, source,spirit, whatever word resonates
for you?
Can you allow yourself to trustyour soul, the divine universe,
god, source, spirit, whateverword resonates for you?
Can you allow yourself to trustyour soul and the divine to
bring up the things that need tobe healed, when they need to be
healed?
I think so often we continue topush, we continue to search, we
continue to heal, thinking againthat if we can just pull it all
up, then we'll get to be done.
(51:48):
Can you allow yourself to trustthat what needs to come up will
come up when it needs to, whenit's ready to be healed, and
that you can just let yourselfsit in the journey and the flow
of that?
We know this with our nervoussystem right.
Our nervous system brings upemotions and experiences when
they're ready to be processed,when we have enough stamina and
capacity for them to be healed.
(52:09):
Can we do the same thing withour trauma, with our limiting
beliefs, with our emotions, withwhatever it is for you, that
thing that your brain is alwaystrying to fix or make better?
Can you let yourself lean intotrust as you're doing your 30
minutes of intention, as you'relooking to the elements to bring
balance back in, as you'reasking yourself what is it that
I need right now, and allowingyourself to hear the answer?
(52:32):
Can you also allow yourself totrust that in that process, in
that experience, in thatshaman's ladder, what needs to
come up will come up, what needsto be processed will be
processed, what needs to behealed will be healed.
But let yourself know thatthat's not the point.
The point is to experience itand trust that you'll experience
(52:52):
everything you need toexperience along the way,
exactly when you need to.
Speaker 2 (52:58):
Yes, beautiful, this was a great conversation.
Yeah, this was wonderful,there's a lot of insight in it?
Speaker 1 (53:04):
Yes, and we would love to know what resonated for
you.
Did you do your 30 minutes ofintention?
Have you started thinking moreabout the shaman's ladder or
asking yourself what you need inthis present moment?
What parts of your self-worthare tied up in this idea of
constantly healing?
How would it feel to shift fromhealing to aligning?
All of these questions we wouldlove to hear your answers to
(53:27):
over in our Moon Rising ShamanicMystics Facebook group, or you
can send us an email at mysticsat moonrisinginstitutecom.
We would love to hear from youand keep this conversation going
, because we really are callingfor a movement here, people, of
let's shift from healing intoaligning, into knowing that
we're worthy, knowing that we'reenough and allowing ourselves
(53:47):
to fully experience this onewild and precious life that we
have, this one chance toexperience this human, this life
this time, this unfoldingexactly as it is, and allowing
ourselves to know that it'senough, no matter what it is.
Speaker 2 (54:06):
I love that this human Connect with this human,
this one, right here, right now.
I love that this human, thishuman, connect with this human,
this one, right here, right now.
Speaker 1 (54:12):
Beautiful, so we would love to hear from you.
We hope that you enjoyedtoday's conversation and took
some insight and hope andinspiration from it, and until
next time, may you awaken to thewhispers of wisdom rising from
within.
Thanks for tuning in to today'sshow.
The Wisdom Rising podcast issponsored by Moon Rising
(54:35):
Shamanic Institute.
If you enjoyed this episode, besure to subscribe to the show
on your favorite podcasting appand be the first to know when we
release a new episode.
You can find us on Instagram,facebook, youtube and TikTok at
Moon Rising Institute, or visitour website
moonrisinginstitutecom to learnmore about our mission and find
(54:57):
future opportunities to connectwith our community of shamanic
mystics.
Once again, thank you forsharing space with us today, and
until next time, may you awakento the whispers of wisdom
rising from within.
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