Episode Transcript
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Hi, I'm Josh Hutchinson and she's Sarah Jack.
And this is Witch Hunt Podcast. Welcome back to our special
series for podcast Thon 2025, Ending Witch Hunts, where
podcasters are uniting for good and impact. 1500 or more
podcasters have been releasing special episodes March 15th
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through the 21st. They've used their platforms to
simultaneously amplify causes and important charities.
Learn more at podcastthon.org and you will see our nonprofit
and Witch Hunts featured with the other charities.
This is episode 5 in our Ending Witch Hunt series, and we'll
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have the final installment for you tomorrow.
Our true story about witch huntshas taken us through Africa,
Papua New Guinea, in parts of Asia, particularly India.
Now we turn our attention to Europe, where many of the
historical witch trials that shaped our modern understanding
took place. Yeah, In this episode, we'll be
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exploring several European countries, including England,
Scotland, Ireland, Italy, Germany, France and Portugal,
and we'll cover Switzerland and Austria in future discussions.
Understanding these historical trials gives us important
context for recognizing harmful practices and accusations that
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still occur today. By connecting past and present,
we gained a more complete picture of how witch hunt
dynamics persist across culturesand time.
Let's dig in. Europe's witch trials peaked
from about 1400 to 1775, a period during which 40 to 50,000
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innocent people were executed for witchcraft.
While witch trials were held in just about every European
country, about half of the executions occurred in the Holy
Roman Empire, where the bodies of those convicted of witchcraft
were burned at the stake. Bodies were also burned in
Scotland, which we visited with Mary W Craig, author of Two Good
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books. Please grab these and add them
to your library so you don't have them.
Books Borders, Witch Hunt and Agnes Finney the Witch of Potter
airport. Mary taught us how brutal witch
trials were, especially about the torture inflicted upon
victims. In our episode with her, we also
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first learned about witch prickers or witch broders, whose
job was to prick Marks and blemishes on suspects bodies
with large needles, and if they found a mark that was
insensitive and did not bleed when pricked, it was considered
to be a witch's mark or teat, and these were generally located
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in the genital region. The theme of which Pricker is
central to a play named Prick. We discussed this play with the
creators and at which podcast. We love the arts, and we love
bringing on guests who are usingthe arts to look at the true
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nature of humanity, especially to the perspective of witch
hunts. So please check out our episode
on Prick. On the podcast, our very first
foray into European witch trialscame in episode #6 when we spoke
with Doctor Danny Buck about thewitch trials in Great Yarmouth,
England during Matthew Hopkins Reign of Terror.
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We ventured back to England in episode 11 when we talked to
Professor Marian Gibson about her book The Witches of Saint
Joseph. Professor Gibson taught us the
importance of recovering the individual identities of those
involved in witch trials in order to understand their
motivations, to humanize them, and to give those who were
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accused of witchcraft an identity as a person other than
a witch. And if you've listened to our
second episode in the series, Doctor Liu Ikwe talked about one
of the stories of a modern survivor, the survivor that
Lewis spoke about, She wasn't a witch.
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You know, when she walked into that community to talk about it,
she was a survivor. This lesson from Mary Gibson
about the importance of humanizing the individuals
involved. They're not just characters,
they're not just notes in some history book.
They actual human beings with the same motivations, wants and
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desires that we have, and it's important to cast them in that
light and not remember them as witches, which they absolutely
were not. And Doctor Leo Igue reminded us
of why that's so important when he spoke in the second episode
in this series when we were discussing Africa.
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He told us a story that a survivor told him about her
experience being accused of witchcraft as a child and how
that continued to affect her into adult life.
And those kinds of stories that really show you it's human
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beings that are involved. You know, whether it was 600
years ago or yesterday, that's ahuman being that's being accused
of a crime that human beings don't commit and that they
specifically had no intention ofcommitting when?
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Journalist Karen Helmstead visited Witch Hunt podcast.
She talked about her ancestor who was executed for witchcraft
in what is now Germany. She also discussed the brutal
nature of witch hunts, emphasizing the overriding drive
for confessions, which were seenas the ultimate evidence on
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which to convict a person of witchcraft.
This overriding drive for confessions gave rise to the
extensive use of torture in manyjurisdictions in the Holy Roman
Empire and throughout Europe. We also got to go to Italy with
Doctor Deborah Moretti. On her first visit to the
podcast, she discussed 2 main perceptions of a witch in Italy
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during the early modern period, something that is true of other
areas that have seen witch huntsas well.
Yeah, these two perceived types of witches are supernatural
witch and the practical witch. In the supernatural view of
witchcraft, the witch flew to Sabbaths and copulated with the
devil. Did other just what were thought
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of as despicable, the most despicable acts that you could
think of, anti woman, anti mother acts, anti Christian
acts, inverting the Christian rights, flipping them on their
head to serve the devil. So there's that view.
And then there's just the practical view in which witches
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are pretty much ordinary people who live next to you, and they
happen to possess the ability touse magic, which they can do for
both beneficial and heartland purposes without having to
covenant with the devil. We got to learn about Ireland's
only large witch hunt, the Island McGee witch trials of
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1711. They saw accusations against
eight women and one man. The only other early modern
witch trial in Ireland was the trial of Florence Newton in
1661. Doctor Andrew Snedden, who
taught us about Ireland's low number of witch trials,
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including the Island McGee witchtrials and the trial of Florence
Newton. He's one of the experts who
created a very innovative multimedia museum exhibit that's
also has a virtual reality component, has elements
incorporating the arts. There's a video game, there's a
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graphic novel. There's a lot associated with
this. They tried to use basically
every form of media that there is to tell the story of the
Island McGee witch trials. And so highly recommend that you
go look at that if you have a chance.
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There's a project website you can check out.
It's W 1711.org and you can evenview original documents from
those witch trials. Our trip through the story of
witch hunting took us to France and Spain when we spoke with
Doctor Jan Mckeelson about witchtrials in the Basque Country.
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Many colorful accounts of Witch's Sabbaths emerged from
the accusers testimonies in thatwitch hunt with quite lurid,
graphic and frankly bizarre details, including the belief
that witches would dig up the corpses of their Confederates
and take them to the Sabbath. There, the devil provided
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special dentures which enabled the witches to eat the bodies.
I just love that little detail, the dentures.
I mean, who comes up with this stuff?
Early modern theologians, scholars, and magistrates
actually debated whether the witch's Sabbath was a physical
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reality or just an illusion created by Satan.
They didn't work debating whether it was real or not, they
just wanted to know in which reality did it exist.
From the Basque Country we have made the short journey over to
Portugal with Doctor Inez to do to discuss a more modern
witchcraft accusation which resulted in a horrible crime,
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the burning of Armida de Jesus in 1933.
Yeah, that discussion taught us a great deal about how
witchcraft beliefs have endured through the centuries since
Europe's formal witch trials ended.
We've also been to Belgium in more modern times with Doctor
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Christophe Smares, who told us about lay exorcisms of the 18th
and 19th centuries. And another exorcism
conversation we had was with Doctor Francis Young, and we
know that they are not uncommon in Europe today.
From other discussions, we've learned that witchcraft
accusations continue in Europe, too.
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Indeed, people continue to be attacked and killed due to the
fear of witchcraft, the fear of demon possession.
We've learned about spiritual and ritual abuse cases in the
United Kingdom in our conversations with Jordan
Alexander and Chrissy Bermalo Casey.
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Those conversations have featured very harrowing tales of
shocking violence committed in the United Kingdom in the 21st
century against very innocent people, including children.
The murder of Victoria Columbia,a young English girl who was
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accused of witchcraft, and the ritual sacrifice of the boy
known only as Adam, whose torso washed up on the banks of the
Thames River in London, bring home the point that witch hunts
and other harmful practices occur all over the world.
One of the things that we've been reiterating throughout the
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story during the series of ending witch hunts is the
innocence of the victims. And when we look back at the
historical victims, many of themare still in a convicted status.
They've never had their names cleared.
The authority of their communityhave never cleared their names
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and you may have heard of some of these campaigns across the
world. These campaigns are working to
clear the names of those who arehistorical witch hunt victims.
In several of our episodes we'vehad the opportunity to talk with
leaders of those campaigns. The Witches of Scotland who have
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a podcast you may be familiar with.
We did a Co episode with them. Please check that out.
Learn a little bit more about their campaign.
And Joshua, why don't you tell us about the Justice for Witches
campaign? The campaign, which was started
by Charlotte Meredith, who we met at a conference in England
last year and have had the good fortune to have many discussions
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with since then. That campaign is seeking a
pardon for anybody accused of witchcraft in Scotland, Wales or
England under the Witchcraft Acts of Scotland and England.
So anybody in those countries who's been convicted, that
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campaign is seeking justice for all of them.
We have a great affinity with these campaign leaders because
we've also been involved in seeking exonerations for people
convicted of witchcraft in the American colonies.
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So we were part of the Connecticut Witch Trial
Exoneration Project, which did successfully see legislation
passed in May 2023 to clear the names of 33 individuals who were
indicted or convicted for witchcraft in the Connecticut
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and New Haven colonies. And currently there's an
exoneration effort that we're supporting out of Maryland.
Because the Maryland effort is in play right now, we actually
could use your support with yoursignature on the petition.
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It's really easy. You can sign your name to clear
their names in that petition is change.org/MD witch trials.
That's change that org slash MD for Maryland witch trials.
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And exoneration effort is also underway in Massachusetts.
The Massachusetts Witch Hunt Justice Project is currently
seeking exoneration for 8 individuals who were convicted
of witchcraft in Boston in the years before Salem.
So these are individuals who've not been included in the
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Massachusetts resolutions that have gone through so far, which
have cleared the names of all individuals who were convicted
during Salem trials. And this legislation is due to
go before the Judicial Committeeat a date to be determined.
But you can support this one by going to change.org/witchtrials.
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We called back to a lot of previous episodes, but did you
know this podcast started because we wanted to seek
exoneration for the accused witches of Connecticut?
So if you go back to the beginning of our podcast, you'll
learn all about why exoneration is important and what we were
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saying about it before the success of the exoneration.
Yeah, we believe really stronglyin the importance of justice for
the victims of historical witch trials.
One reason is, as Doctor Leo Iguay stated in our Africa
episode a few days ago, exonerations and pardons send
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signals around the world that witch hunting is wrong and not
something to be tolerated. There's a few arguments that I
hear when people are surprised that such a bill would be
brought to the floor right now. And one is that's long gone.
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That history is over. Those people, that's old
history. And I really hope that your
understanding that these exonerations and pardons are
really critical. Until we stop looking for
witches and accusing innocent people of witchcraft, it matters
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to them. Remember when we started this
story series, we said the witch hunting story is bigger than
just Salem. Pull back each layer of that
story and you find out that witch hunts aren't a tall tale.
They aren't an open and shut case.
Right, we said one minute. You think you know the truth?
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But then the next minute you realize you don't know the half
of it. And we talked about how life is
not black and white, and witch hunts are proof of that because
they're not just historical events.
They're still happening today. Throughout the series we've
explored witch hunts in Africa, India, Papua New Guinea, and now
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we're bringing the story full circle to Europe and tomorrow on
the last episode of the series, the Americas, where most people
think witch hunts are just history.
The uncomfortable truth is that while the form has changed, the
fear remains. Even here in the West, we see
modern manifestations through homemade exorcisms that go wrong
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and other ritual abuse cases. Remember Boris Gershman's
research? He analyzed data across 95
countries and found that approximately 40% of people
globally believe in harmful witchcraft.
And while the prevalence ranges from 9% in Sweden to 90% in
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Tunisia, we can't ignore that 16% of Americans, that's nearly
one in six, believe in the powerof harmful witchcraft.
That is, belief in curses, the evil eye, or the ability for
spells to cause actual harm. When fear takes over, it leads
to dangerous action. And as we've seen throughout
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history in Europe's witch trialsand even in modern cases in the
UK and the US, there's a line where acting on these beliefs
harms innocent people. The UN human Rights report from
2023 confirmed what we've seen across cultures.
Victims are often persons in vulnerable situations, including
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women, children, persons with disabilities, older persons,
persons with albinism and persons with dementia.
So while many might think European and American witch
hunts ended centuries ago, we'reseeing that the same underlying
fears and accusations continue today, just in different forms.
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By connecting these dots from historical witch trials to the
modern spiritual abuse cases, wecan better understand how to end
witch hunts everywhere. And This is why our podcasts
exist. This is why and witch hunts are
nonprofit exists. There's a lots to educate on and
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there are lots of experts to talk to.
And there are lots of innocent people counting on us.
Please consider giving us a donation to help us fund our
podcasts and to keep developing our projects.
We're so glad you joined us for the series.
Remember our podcasts on finishes Tomorrow when we look
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at witch hunting and the Americas.
So be sure to tune in tomorrow. And we've also highlighted a
number of episodes on Europe in the show notes so that you can
get to those easily. So give those a listen.
Thank you for joining our Fabio Mendes podcast on Extravaganza.
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Have a great today and a beautiful tomorrow.