December 10, 2024 • 43 mins
On Human Rights Day, December 10th, marking 76 years since the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, we explore one of humanity's ongoing challenges: how differences continue to be met with fear, persecution, and violence.
We welcome special guest Muluka-Anne Miti-Drummond, United Nations Independent Expert on the Enjoyment of Human Rights by Persons with Albinism, for a critical discussion that epitomizes Human Rights Day 2024. Her vital work documents how harmful practices and ritual attacks continue to threaten the lives of persons with albinism in Africa and globally, challenging the fundamental principles the Universal Declaration of Human Rights was created to protect.
Our conversation examines how beliefs that lead to harm continue to target persons with albinism, particularly women and children. Through the framework of United Nations Resolution 47/8 on accusations of witchcraft and ritual attacks, we explore how countries worldwide are developing protective measures while respecting cultural contexts.
As we mark International Human Rights Day and its vision of dignity for all people regardless of race, color, religion, abilities, or status, this discussion provides both a sobering look at ongoing human rights challenges and hope through education, awareness, and community engagement. Join this crucial exploration of human rights protection, where harmful practices meet National Action Plans, and learn how global communities are working together to ensure safety and dignity for persons with albinism.
#HumanRightsDay #PersonsWithAlbinism #UnitedNations #HumanRights #AlbinismRights
Resources:
United Nations Human Rights Council Resolution 47/8
Papua New Guinea Sorcery and Witchcraft Accusation-Related Violence National Action Plan
Pan African Parliament Guidelines for Addressing Accusations of Witchcraft and Ritual Attacks
IK Ero On Next Steps For Ending Witch Hunts TINAAWAHP
Sierra Leone Association of Persons with Albinism
Sierra Leone Association of Persons with Albinism Facebook Page
Medical Assistance Sierra Leone
Connecticut Witch Trial Exoneration Project
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
There's this wrong belief. That the body path of pursuit
with albinism can provide some form of good luck, some kind of
fortune or or good luck or moneymake you wealthy and therefore.
People with albinism. Are targeted for ritual attacks.
Welcome to witch hunt the. Podcast bringing you the latest
developments in the struggle against witchcraft accusations
(00:22):
and ritual attacks, I'm Josh Hutchinson.
I'm Sarah Jack. Throughout human history,
differences have often been met with fear, superstition, and
sometimes violence. Today, we're exploring how these
age-old reactions continue to impact vulnerable populations
around the world. We're honored to welcome Maluca
(00:44):
and Medi Drummond, the UN independent expert on the
enjoyment of human rights by persons with albinism.
Her work reveals how supernatural beliefs and harmful
practices continue to threaten lives in the 21st century.
From ritual attacks fueled by misguided beliefs about good
fortune to accusations of witchcraft targeting society's
(01:05):
most vulnerable, MIDI Drummond helps us understand.
Both the scope of these. Challenges and the path towards
positive change. The conversation ahead touches
on difficult topics but also offers hope through education,
awareness, and community engagement.
We'll explore UN Resolution 47 Eight and learn how nations
worldwide are working to protectvulnerable populations while
(01:29):
respecting religious and cultural freedoms.
Let's get right to this important discussion about human
rights, supernatural beliefs, and the ongoing work to ensure
safety and dignity for all. Welcome to Witch Hunt podcast.
It's such a privilege to have you here today.
Please tell us about your background in your current role
(01:52):
with the United Nations. Thank you for having me, it's
great to be here. Today and to be able to be a
part of your. Podcast.
My name is Maluca and Mickey Drummond and I am joining you
today from Lusaka. Zambia I am.
The United Nations independent expert on the enjoyment of
human. Rights by persons with albinism.
It's a very. Long title I always say and it
(02:13):
can be abbreviated to UN independent.
Expert on albinism. So what that means basically is
that I have been. Appointed by the United Nations
to advance and promote the rights of persons with albinism
throughout the world. And we can get a bit.
More into that later. If need be.
What are some of the challenges being faced by persons with
(02:35):
albinism? Thanks.
Obviously, since the United Nations thought fit to have an
independent expert on the. Rights of persons with albinism
is your question is very relevant.
Yes, if the mandate. Was set up because of.
The human rights violations, thepersons that albinism face, I
think I should maybe. Explain what I mean by persons
with albinism. It's not always.
(02:56):
A term that most people. Use.
So when we talk about persons with albinism, we're talking
about people with a genetic condition which is
characterized. By lack of melanin in their
hair, skin and eyes, so I think.The term that most.
People will be aware of is the term albino, but this is the
term that we no longer use because it focuses so much on
(03:20):
the condition rather than on theperson.
But I do sometimes. Refer to that because I think
once people hear that term then they're like, OK, now I know
what we're talking about, but persons with albinism is
preferred because it highlights the person before the condition.
So yes. There are a number of.
Violations of persons with albinism face thus being stigma
(03:41):
and discrimination, and out of that comes a lot of other
violations of rights. So with persons with albinism.
As we. Said tend to look different from
the general population. I should say that persons with.
Albinism, they're people with albinism are all races of all
ethnicities all over the world, and the main characteristic is
(04:02):
that they they. Always appear lighter than
people of their counterparts. Of the same rate of the same and
so they would always appear muchlighter the hair would have.
Varying colours, but it's depending.
On. A shade of.
Blondes to maybe almost white, and this makes them stand out.
The appearance makes them stand out.
And because of the appearance and the differences in their
(04:24):
appearance, they're unfortunately exposed to a lot
of stigma and discrimination. And this manifests in different
ways. It could be in relation to like
accessing a job or just your interactions with society.
But it goes to as much as as far.
As. People with albinism,
unfortunately. In some parts of the world,
mainly in African countries, being killed because they look
(04:46):
different and because people don't understand the condition
and so yes. The violations could be in
relation to education, employment equality.
We've talked about education is another one, and education is.
Maybe because of lack of understanding of the other needs
that accompany albinism and the other concerns that accompany
(05:08):
albinism as well. Do women and girls have more
specific challenges within thosechallenges?
So when we look at women and girls, unfortunately there's
always a lot. More challenges for women and
girls in general because you're having a you're discriminated
against because you are a woman,because you are female, and then
(05:29):
you add on top. Of that.
Being someone with albinism. So you've got the double
discrimination. You're discriminated against
because of your albinism and because you're a woman.
And so that we do see. Differences so.
For example, I've talked about. Killings of persons with
albinism and I haven't explainedthem and the killings is because
people wrongly believe that because someone with albinism
(05:52):
looks different because they can't understand, Particularly
in the African context where most people are highly pigmented
and then a child is born with albinism to parents who are both
very highly pigmented and the child is very, very paling
complexion almost looking Caucasian and because they.
Can't people? Cannot always understand this
(06:14):
difference then there's this wrong belief that the body path
of tissues with albinism can provide some form of good luck
some kind of fortune or or good luck or money make you wealthy
and. Therefore, people with albinism
are targeted and for ritual. Attacks with the idea that their
body path can be used in ritual practices or portions to give
(06:37):
luck. When it comes to women with
albinism, it's. Also the body of a woman with
albinism that's objectified and avid and again.
There's a. Superstition.
So some people may believe that having sexual intercourse with a
woman with albinism can cure sexually child admitted diseases
including HIV aid. So unfortunately that would lead
to sexual exploitation, rape of women, girls with albinism as
(07:01):
well due to this very wrong belief.
Yeah, related to the condition. How do we confront
stigmatisation? So what is important is
education, education awareness raising.
At the moment, albinism is just.It's a condition that.
People don't really understand, don't really know.
And whenever there's something that people don't understand,
(07:24):
they try and seek. To give it another reason,
another explanation, and unfortunately that explanation
is tends to be based on. Witchcraft based on
superstition. If we could get more education,
more understanding, even more visibility, because I think the
other concern. Is also that you don't always
see people with albinism and albinism is kind of rare.
(07:45):
So when you do see someone with albinism.
It's so surprising. And you will then assume all
this person must be supernatural, must be a
blessing, must. Be a curse.
So I think education. First of all, is very important
educating people on albinism. What is albinism?
What causes albinism? Not that it's the superstition
(08:05):
that you have, like it's caused by supernatural.
Things, but it's a scientific. Explanation The genetic
condition is caused by both parents carrying this gene.
It's basically. A lack of melanin and does not
keep pistols with albinism any supernatural powers.
And when it comes to visibility as well, I think the more people
get used to something that then.The less you take away the kind
(08:29):
of strangeness of of something on of the power.
So when it. Comes to albinism I think.
If we have more visibility of persons with albinism.
It becomes less of a. Something that's of an.
I hate to use the word, but I can't think of a better word at
the moment of an oddity in offence.
And having persons with albinism.
In the media. Persons with albinism in
(08:51):
commercials, on posters, just. Normalizing albinism in a sense
can also help to get rid of the stigma and the discrimination.
The other thing that I. Alluded to is the specific lead
of persons with albinism due to,I said, other conditions
accompanying their their their albinism.
(09:12):
And that's basically in relation.
To visual. Impairment.
So persons with albinism. Have photophobia Sensitivity to
the sun. Will have nystagmus, the rapid
eye movement from 1:00. From left to right.
And persons with albinism will. Will have maybe strabismus and
low visual acuity as well. And I think a lack of
(09:34):
understanding of these. Conditions as well adds to the
the the stigma and discrimination.
When somebody sees a person whose eyes are moving rapidly
from side to side, and they don't understand why the
person's eyes are moving, they're more likely to attribute
something negative. Towards it for education.
About nystagmus, but also understanding that because of
(09:56):
the low visual acuity, persons with albinism will require
larger print documents, will require magnifiers and the like,
and may not. Do so well at school because
they're not being. Provided with the support they
need. A child with.
Albinism is sitting in front, can't see the board.
The teacher may just assume thatthis child is being lazy or is
not intelligent. However, the child just cannot
(10:17):
see. The board cannot read their
book. And I think because of that
then? Stigma and discrimination also
comes up with misconceptions about the intelligence of
persons with albinism in parts of the world.
So dealing. With some of those issues as
well to make sure that we're. Creating a level playing.
Ground for persons with albinism, so that also helps to
reach a stigma and discrimination against them when
(10:38):
they have a level playing groundas well.
You mentioned ritual attacks. What would we need to understand
about them and how does it relate to harmful practices?
So the number of harmful. We talk about harmful.
Practices against that. Cause harm to others.
And sometimes. Harmful practices are related
(11:00):
to. Thoughts.
Beliefs. Superstitions.
Most of the time very wrong beliefs, superstitions and.
May it may even be. Religion.
It might be witchcraft. So in the context of albinism,
they are harmful practices. Against persons with albinism
for use in witchcraft for ritualpurposes, though.
(11:21):
As I mentioned the some. People wrongly believe that the
body part can provide you with good luck.
And if you're someone who. Believes in witchcraft or ritual
practices. And you want to get ahead in
life, You want to have some. Good luck, you want to have some
fortunes the body parts a personwith albinism may you may be
informed that you need. To forget the body.
(11:42):
Parts of a person, someone with albinism, in order to produce a
charm or a potion or something that will give you that good
luck. Of course, this is all fake.
It's all wrong. And I have to mention that and
be very clear that this is theseare all wrong superstition.
But because of that, then there are now.
These harmful practices, abductions of persons with
albinism, mutilation, we have cases.
(12:03):
Of. Children's arms, unfortunately
being. Chopped off fingers, other body
parts, children and adults, but unfortunately children are
disproportionately affected and sometimes it's it may not even
seem that hard or that bad in the sense that.
I'll give an example. We have some cases where
somebody's. Hair was cut off.
(12:24):
Someone with albinism. The hair was cut off.
And you're thinking well. Not that bad.
It's not causing any bleeding, it's not really causing any.
Pain. Your hair will grow back.
But ultimately, the reason it was cut off?
Was to be used in ritual practices.
And of course, it creates that concern that, OK, today it's
your hair. What is it tomorrow and the
next? Day and yeah, it relates.
(12:45):
To all these. Kind of.
Attacks that could happen against someone with albinism.
You gave a keynote address at the International Conference on
Witchcraft and Human Rights in Lancaster, England, in
September. What was the significance of
that conference? So the conference was very
(13:05):
useful in highlighting a resolution that was.
Adopted by the United Nations. And the resolution looks
specifically. At harmful practices related to
accusations of witchcraft and ritual attacks on and.
How states can eliminate these? Harmful practices, so the.
Resolution The full name of. The resolution is the UN
resolution on the elimination ofHarmful.
(13:27):
Practices related to accusationsof.
Witchcraft and mutual attack again, another very long.
Title, but so the resolution is multipaceted.
On the one hand, it's. Looking at accusations of
witchcraft, it's not looking at witchcraft specifically.
But more the harm that's. Caused when somebody is accused
of being a witch or performing witchcraft.
(13:48):
And on the other hand, it's alsolooking at.
Harmful practices which are. Related to the practice.
Of witchcraft or in in the the words that the resolution uses
ritual attacks. So ritual attacks often occur in
relation to the practice of witchcraft and there will be
harmful practices like in the context of persons with
albinism, mutilations, abductions, all because they're
(14:12):
being used, body parts are beingsought to be used for witchcraft
purposes or ritual purposes. So yes, the resolution is
broader than just albinism. It's.
Very essential. It's very important because it
deals with a lot of. Issues.
That are not currently being covered by treaties, wholly
covered by other treaties or by UN, not very, very many UN
(14:33):
bodies. So I think it's good to have a
resolution that looks into that.And also, just to say, I think
the resolution, yes, touches on persons with albinism, but it
also touches on other groups of vulnerable people older.
Persons with other forms of disabilities it could be.
Anybody. That seems different.
Who? That does not meet the.
Expectations of society. It may be that you've got
(14:55):
epilepsy or you have dementia, or you have you exhibit
behaviour that is seen as difficult or not conventional
and therefore you are either a witch.
Or demon possessed or somebody. That we can potentially use for
witchcraft purposes. And so it's great that it covers
(15:15):
more than just carbonism, which is what my mandate covers, but
the resolution is much broader. What does Resolution 47 eight
suggest for Member States? What steps is it?
Yes. So the resolution is
multifaceted, I think what firstand foremost.
It's very clear that it. Doesn't prohibit a belief in
(15:39):
witchcraft. It doesn't prohibit any
religious beliefs or any beliefsin the supernatural.
We can't or it doesn't regulate people's thoughts or beliefs.
Religion. But what it does is prohibit
harmful practices that are carried out.
Because of that, I would always say that if your belief is that
(15:59):
you need to go and dig up a particular root and drink it,
and the root doesn't cause you any harm and drink it, that's
fine. If your belief is that you need
to hunt a tree or dance around atree or.
Whatever. Without being offensive to
anyone. That is fine, because you're not
hurting. Anybody and the resolution does
not. Stop that.
(16:20):
The resolution does not stop youfrom singing or worshipping
ancestors or anything like that.It only comes into action.
When you harm somebody now because of that belief and or
you harm somebody, kill somebody, whatever, because of
that belief. So the resolution then fix for
stakes to ensure. That they take measures to end
(16:41):
all these, kind of. Practices is cause for studies.
On the one hand, so that there'sa better understanding what are
the harmful. Practices what?
What are the beliefs in the superstition that lead to these
harmful practices? What measures will be needed to
be taken? So studies are one of the areas
that it looks at, it looks at. Laws.
Reviewing laws. Because sometimes some countries
(17:04):
will. Have laws that inadvertently
maybe allow perpetrators of these to get away, to get away
with killing someone because it's their religious beliefs or
the laws don't go far enough in the case of albinism, for
example. And and I'll give albinism
because that's where I work. That's the area I work in.
(17:25):
Persons with albinism are often intact in circumstances that
amount to trafficking. They load.
Away from their homes, taken to somewhere else, Whether.
Within the country or outside the country?
And then? Exploited because a body part of
is taken enough. Exploitation and this basically,
and sometimes it involves. Organized criminal groups.
(17:45):
But this basically fall. Within the definition of human
trafficking, but. Laws don't always allow for
attacks. Against persons with albinism to
be seen as human trafficking because they're looking at
trafficking for the purposes of labour.
You have to take me and force meto work somewhere, or you have
to take me and force me into intersect work or something.
(18:07):
So the need to change laws. Some of it may also be like
regulating witchcraft practices so that you make sure that
people are allowed to practice and to to express their belief,
but in the process of those witchcraft practices.
You're not allowed to harm another person.
So prohibiting the possession ofa body part, prohibiting the use
(18:29):
of human tissue or organs or bland and making sure that any
witch Doctor Who is regulated, registered, any traditional
healer, whatever however you want to call them is not does
not possess a body part is not using a human body part.
It's not using a human tissue and making that clear because
(18:49):
the moment your practice requires you to use a human
tissue. Then we know that somewhere.
Along the line, somebody's goingto be exposed to harmful
practice which is related to your practice.
And it calls on states as well to look at their own.
What is the context? In which they're working so
we're not looking at A1 size because every country will have
different contexts What is the context why and again that goes
(19:12):
back to the research what is thereason why it's growing up in
these practices are happening what are the beliefs what is.
The stigma and discrimination against certain people.
Because we will find that. In some countries.
There will be older women who are being targeted more.
In other countries. It will be children with
disabilities. Why is that?
What are the beliefs that are fuelling attacks against these
(19:34):
particular groups of people? And then make.
Sure that you are then taking measures to prevent.
That the and and then it just. Asks for both for a variety of
issues. So we've talked about legal
issues, but there's also community based issues.
How do you work? With the community and with
community leaders to demystify some of these issues and make
sure that people are not being targeted and killed or hurt in
(19:58):
the process. Working with traditional
leaders, working with religious leaders in ensuring education as
well. You touched on the need.
For studies to happen, why is reliable data so hard to come
by? Yeah, the problem is that.
A lot of these practices happen in so much secret.
(20:20):
There's a lot of secrecy. Around.
Witchcraft beliefs. Sorcery.
Supernatural Beliefs. So much secrecy and sometimes
unfortunately, even involvement of families.
Or people who would maybe reportthe.
Crime, and sometimes, sometimes they are the.
Ones who are actually involved and if we're dealing with
accusations of witchcraft, for example.
(20:41):
Sometimes, if the family members.
Will. Accuse a child.
Of being a witch because they the child is just not behaving
as they expect them to to behave.
And it may be that the child actually has a mental health.
Condition and they don't understand it.
So because of the involvement of.
Family because of secrecy, because of the stigma, sometimes
that's associated with it. Then there's lack of reporting
(21:04):
as well. There's lower reporting.
And lack of visibility of the concerns as well.
I think it's not something that we talk about generally the UN
doesn't talk about it that much.It's.
Great that we have a. Resolution.
Now that's highlighting this. And so if something is
invisible, it gets. Ignored, it doesn't get it
doesn't get resolved, it doesn'tget the.
Action that it requires. And so no one's talking about
(21:26):
it. So no one's.
Actually looking for it, that's another concern of very few,
actually, there are people who are doing it, but very few
people are actually looking for it and for the concerns and they
end up continuing to be invisible and.
Sometimes it's also how they arereported if you don't specify
that there was a purpose. That the purpose was related to
spiritual beliefs. Spiritual mean.
(21:48):
If you don't specify again, going back to albinism, we have
another a number of cases that happened where the.
Courts, the police don't. Specify that the.
Victim was a person with albinism.
Because if I guess if they do specify.
That immediately raises concernsand red flags.
As in, could this have been a ritual attack?
But if you just say an individual was killed, we may
(22:11):
just assume it's a normal crime and so those get lost in the
data and then and don't get counted.
So yeah, secrecy, invisibility of the concern, involvement of
family members and just the lackof.
Belief in witchcraft and sorcery.
I'm not. Saying we should believe in it,
but the fact is that whether youbelieve in it or not, people are
(22:31):
being killed because of because.Someone out there believes in
witchcraft and sorcery. And I think sometimes.
We just. Don't want to talk about it
because we just feel like it doesn't exist.
It doesn't happen. Why are we even?
Talking about witchcraft, it's the stuff of.
Fiction and. Because of that, then we're
missing out on a lot of cases and and and just to.
Reiterate we don't have to believe in it, but people.
(22:53):
Out there do. And so we have to.
Make. Sure that we are responding to
the harmful practices that come out of it.
And then if you go broader, how does the world, what does the
world need to do? To implement. 47 Eight.
Possible recognise that people. Are being killed because of it.
(23:15):
We need to start reporting. We need to.
Start highlighting how bad. The problem is.
And if you're not? Looking for it, you don't see it
so. I think we need to.
Become more aware. That they are.
These things are actually happening.
Highlight them, Report the cases, insist on justice being
done. And.
Educate as well, because I thinksometimes it's there's just that
(23:38):
belief that the person was a witch.
So what happens in some cases isthat.
Somebody's accused of being a witch or is accused of having
caused bad luck and. So no one really others will may
not want to take action because they.
Feel that person got what was coming to them and often times
actually they are not. They have not done anything,
(23:59):
anything bad or anything harmful.
It's just. Other people who have accused
them of it. So.
Making people aware of these kind of superstitions and
stigma. Taking action and making the
cases visible and I think it needs to also become kind of an
aggravating. Factor in a court case than to
say well. This was carried out.
(24:21):
Because of belief in superstition.
And while we're not saying you cannot have your own beliefs.
You cannot kill somebody. Because of these beliefs and
therefore. Because this was a targeted.
Attack on this basis, we'll giveit.
A harsh offense. Or something like that.
And. Those who have studied law.
We searched through. Legal cases.
(24:42):
On the basis of certain. Keywords.
And I think witchcraft needs to.Be one of those keywords so that
it's easier for us to find thosecases that relate to witchcraft.
I find a lot of times because I'm looking for it every now and
then you will hear cases. Of This woman was killed after
being accused of a witch. And the reporting sometimes
(25:02):
actually makes things worse. Because they will say this witch
was killed or where we haven't even.
Had a child. We don't even know if the.
Woman was indeed a. Witch and the point being that
there there will be reports about somebody being accused of
witchcraft. And being killed.
But we don't get the reports of what happened to.
Those to to the people who killed her or him.
Generally her. Unfortunately, most of the time
(25:24):
it's more women. What happened to them?
Were they taken to court? Were they brought to justice?
And so it creates this. Appearance of impunity and
almost. As in, as if justifying, OK,
there are cases that are out there and people are getting
killed. We're doing nothing about it.
In a sense, we're justifying. These killings, and in a way
(25:45):
we're giving permission for people to continue doing these
killings. So I think reporting not only of
the accusation and the killing. Or they're, in the case of
albinism, the the killing of a person with albinism for ritual
purposes. But also it's essential.
To report the prosecutions. And how much?
What was the sentence? This will serve as a deterrent.
(26:07):
And get it out. There so that people can see
that actually, it's just not. Affectable and that if.
You do this, you will face the full extent of the law as well,
so that needs to be done as well.
And you referred to this earlieras well, but currently, instead
of being an aggravating factor, witchcraft belief or a wrong
(26:28):
belief about persons with albinism is often seen as a
mitigating factor. And it's true that in some some
jurisdictions it it is seen as amitigating factor that you
carried. This out because you believed in
witchcraft and because your beliefs.
Either witchcraft or your religious beliefs or and again
(26:48):
to it feels like we're. Excusing this fake, it's
justifying that. Your beliefs, be it in
witchcraft, be it in religion, be it in anything else or
called, can justify you killing somebody.
And I think that goes counter towhat the resolution is saying.
The resolution is saying that. There should be no.
Justification for harming any person on the basis of your
(27:10):
belief. Practice your belief.
But don't harm any person because of it.
Thank you. What would you like to tell us
about your fact finding travels that you've recently?
Does kind of my. Work I do fact finding missions.
I am invited by the States to different countries to look into
(27:30):
the. Situation of persons with
albinism and. I've just come back.
From what we call an official country visit to the United
States. I should say.
Best and foremost because we've just been talking about
witchcraft practices and ritual attacks.
That was not the purpose. And thankfully.
I did not find any cases of attacks against persons with
albinism or killings. Against persons with albinism in
(27:53):
relation to witchcraft. At all or any?
Patience of killing the person with albinism.
I think if they were there they didn't come up on my radar and
may have been for other reasons not purely related to the
albinism. A lot of the things that did
come up though was. There is still stigma and
discrimination even in the US. And stigma and discrimination.
(28:14):
Against persons with albinism ofall races as well comes up as
well and. Also between.
People of the same races. And therefore when we look.
At that, we look at it as. More discrimination on the.
Basis of color. And I think that's one thing
that. People don't always consider
(28:35):
you. You'd consider that we're the
same race. And so if I make a joke, a joke,
if I discriminate against you, I'm not being racist.
It's just, you know. But if I do that.
And it's because you look at your colouring.
Is different then it's colourismand that came up a bit like the
issue of. Colourism came up.
And I think again, the lack of understanding.
(28:58):
Of albinism and the specific needs of persons with albinism.
But I think what was most interesting for.
Me and what? Really.
Needs to be highlighted. I visited Puerto Rico and Puerto
Rico has the highest. Population of persons with
Hamas. Kipudlak syndrome.
And HPF, as it's known, is a rare form of albinism that's
(29:20):
accompanied by lung disorders, bleeding disorders as well.
And persons with HPF. Will often need a lung
transplant, especially those with a specific type of HPF.
Eventually will need a lung transplant because of the lung
disorders. Will have challenge problems
with bleeding because of the waythe platelet is warped and not
(29:43):
because of the lack. Of platelet.
And that causes problems as well.
And so just the idea that a lot of individuals are unable to
actually access that access the lung.
Transplant and the cost of getting a lung.
Transplant and an emotional financial.
Other costs of getting a lung transplant, maybe leaving the
island where there is no lung transplant affinities and going
(30:06):
to the mainland. And also, I think just the lack
of. Diagnosis as well.
There's a high level of HPS but still people with albinism being
born on the island are not. Necessarily tested for HPS and
because of that there are more complications that that arise in
future and may be wrong medical procedures used because you
(30:27):
don't understand that maybe thisperson have HPS and if I do
this, they may actually bleed profusely.
And so I have to take these steps to counter the possibility
of bleeding and oh, I don't needto replace the platelets because
it's not about the number of platelets and the like.
Turning back to the resolution and implementing it, one of the
(30:50):
developments that we've seen hasbeen the creation of the Pan
African Parliament's guidelines.Can you tell us what those
guidelines are about? Yes, so the guidelines borrow.
Exactly the name of the. UN resolution in a sense and so
if the Pan African Parliament guidelines on the.
(31:11):
Elimination of harmful practicesrelated to accurations of
witchcraft and ritual. Attacks.
These are guidelines that were adopted by.
As the name. Suggests the Pan African
Parliament. And they are.
Guidelines that are directed to parliamentarians.
Across the African continent. So that they can take into.
Consideration measures that can be used to eliminate such
(31:33):
harmful practices they are. Actually a bit more broader than
the UN resolution and go into a.Lot more detail around the kind
of the Community measures and the legal measures.
And also they go so that the UN resolution.
Is is a lot? Briefer and may imply that this
should be done with the Pan African Parliament.
(31:54):
They're a bit more explicit and they go into ideas of education,
not just educating about conditions, but education
around. Phenomena as well that may lead
to attacks against people, harmful practices related to
accusations of which. Cause, for example, climate
change. Related natural disasters.
So in some areas it was suddenlyflooding or experiencing some
(32:19):
other kind of cyclone. Another kind of natural disaster
and you happen to have someone in the community that has a
disability, have epilepsy, albinism.
You may then think we're experiencing this bad luck
because of this person, and thenthat person is then going to be
attacked. So the need to understand, for
(32:39):
people to also be educated. That this is a natural
phenomenon, it's not being carried out by any human being,
by any individual, and thereforeyou don't need to blame it on
that person and attack that person.
And also just the need to include education early on.
So in the school curriculum explaining genetic conditions.
So that children start. From early on, knowing that.
(33:01):
Not. Everybody looks like me or
sounds like me and may have thisdifference.
And so by the time they're an adult.
They're already accepting of differences and less likely to
see this as a superstitious. Thing the Pan African Parliament
guideline also contain a study or it so it starts off with a
study and then a summary with. The guideline at the back and I
(33:22):
think. That was also useful in showing
that people understand why it's such a problem.
And why the guidelines are beingadopted and they're not just
coming out of nowhere, they've some specific concern that they
are responding to. And it's hoped that the the
parliamentarians will use it to.Develop legislation and the like
across the continent. How do we help nations adopt
(33:47):
national action plans? For the various national action
plans, we've had national actionplans around albinism.
And. Mainly aimed at eliminating.
These ritual attacks so harmful practice the the ritual attacks
related to witchcraft. And the national action plans.
Are always holistic. We look at it as in it's multi.
(34:07):
Faceted the things that contribute.
To this position come from different areas so.
We look at the criminal justice system.
And where are. The failures and how can we make
sure that? The criminal justice system is
responding to the attacks so that we.
They can be a proper deterrent. And there can be no impunity.
We'll look at root causes as well.
What is causing this education and awareness raising?
(34:29):
What about persons with albinismmay make people have this wrong
belief? And like I talked about visual
impairment and all that. And so the need to show
education, health needs and all that are being tackled with.
So when it comes to the nationalaction plans on albinism the way
we have. Worked is to bring together.
Those impacted by the concerns, organizations of persons with
(34:51):
albinism and then bringing government officials and any
other. Stakeholders to discuss.
First of all. What is the problem?
A detailed situational analysis Problems so that we understand,
rather than just assuming, that these broad concerns apply to
every country. What is the specific?
Concern in our country and now that we have the situational
(35:12):
analysis and understand the specific concern, how do we
respond to all these specific issues, root causes and then
work together with government authorities to ensure that this
is then developed into a national action plan.
And what is really important is that the National Action Plan
has a budget. There's no point in having.
The National action Plan that. Has no budget and can't before.
(35:34):
Can't have any impact and. Related to budgeting is
understanding. If the data collection, what is
the? Extent of the.
Problem How many people are are impacted?
What? Kind of funding now that we have
all. These different data and
statistics. How much?
Funding. Do we really need to respond to
this group of people? And the same can be done as well
(35:55):
for. Accusations of witchcraft.
The development of national action plans looking at the
elimination of these harmful practices.
And that. Again, would require bringing in
the specific stakeholders. All in this country are being
accused of being witches. All in this country.
Are being attacked for the purposes of ritual because it
won't be the same people in the same country.
(36:18):
And I think I just have to say Ikeep using.
Witchcraft, but I think it's very.
Important to say that the revolution goes beyond.
Witchcraft. It also talks about religious
beliefs. And, and sometimes it's kind of
hard to see or we separate them.We think, OK, religion is one
thing. Witchcraft is another thing,
but. What binds them together That.
They're both a belief in supernatural without causing
(36:42):
offence to anyone you. Believe in God.
God is supernatural, and so that's what.
Binds the two issues together that.
If anything that is based. On the belief.
Or something that cannot be. Seen something that is
supernatural and. Causing harmful, causing harm to
someone. Else because of that.
So if you. Accuse a child of demon
possession. You're not accusing.
(37:03):
Them of being a witch per SE. But you are accusing them of
having supernatural powers. And being able to influence the
world around. Them.
And so, in a sense, you are. Accusing them of being a witch
in a sense so. I feel like I need to highlight
that because people would think we don't.
I don't. I haven't.
Accused anyone of witch of beinga witch.
But the moment you. Say somebody is human possessed.
(37:26):
It's a similar kind. Of thing, it's just you're using
a different framework, the framework of religion, as
opposed to the framework of witchcraft or occultism.
And what's a national action plan is developed by a nation?
How does the international community help that nation to go
forward with implementation? So it would depend on the the
(37:49):
country and how much. Outreach has been done to the
international community. Sometimes it's with resources,
sometimes it's with technical knowledge, with way if a
national action plan. For example, calls for awareness
raising. Education that may be done.
Within the country, people may understand the best way of
ensuring the education and the awareness raising within their
(38:10):
own context. If it calls for assistance to
vulnerable groups. So.
For example, again I'll go back to albinism because of the.
Lack of understanding of. Albinism.
One of the things I haven't mentioned skin cancer.
Persons with albinism. Are highly susceptible to skin
damage due to the effects of thesun.
And that includes skin. Cancer and sometimes that
(38:31):
includes other kind of bruising spots and you see a.
Person with albinism that looks.Like that and you believe
something supernatural about them?
But that appearance can also be prevented.
Through the use of sunscreen andand often.
Takes with us. Because the person has photo
ageing has been impacted by the sun so.
They have sunscreen that can. Prevent some of that which also
(38:54):
causes some superstitions. So then the international.
Community may come in with research on a condition that can
help explain. Or can come in with support for
sunscreen or support. For assistive devices.
If we're talking. About epilepsy What kind of
research can be done in relationto epilepsy in the country by
(39:17):
the international community? What kind of?
Support can be given to. Other children with.
Autism Sometimes, unfortunately maybe that you've got autism and
you're accused of being a witch,and sometimes international
community can come in and provide support around that.
What should our listeners do with the information they've
(39:38):
learned today? Educator file it's always.
Important to read up. And understand more so we, you
know, for some people, it's the first time that they're.
Hearing about the UN resolution,it's.
Available. I would recommend reading more
about it. I have tried to provide some
information about it but it's. Always good to read on your own.
(40:00):
Look out for the situation. Maybe you've never.
Thought of accusations of witchcraft or brutal attacks and
harmful practices related to this.
Maybe now you can do more. Research into it and speak up as
well. Speak up as well so.
Educate yourself. Research.
And speak up. Where you see some of these
concerns? And sometimes I think just to be
(40:21):
aware that it it doesn't have. To be as extreme as somebody
being killed it. Starts from small things and
often we accuse people if if. They're different, or if they.
Are excelling too much especially.
Women who seem to be doing way more than they should might be
accused of being a witch or using occult practices or using
(40:43):
chance or or whatever, I think. Being aware of that and
questioning now and not just. Absorbing everything that you
read and you hear. And just asking what's the root
cause and if this were in another country or if this were
to? Escalate and get worse.
What couldn't be the potential harmful practices?
And I think it's useful to to challenge oneself as well with
(41:07):
our own thought processes. And now, Sir, how's the special
announcement? Please join us on February 1st,
2025 at Hartford CT's Old State House at 1:00 PM for a free
community history event remembering the innocent victims
of the Connecticut Witch Trials.It's a special 2 hour
(41:28):
commemoration of those who lost their lives in colonial
Connecticut's witch trials. award-winning performers Deborah
Walsh and Jenny Wolf will open with a dramatic reading of the
last night followed by insights from the Connecticut Witch Trial
Exoneration Project founders andrenowned historians.
We will honor the victims with aremembrance ceremony joined by
(41:48):
State Representative Jane Garabe.
Connect with fellow community members and witch trial history
descendants afterward as we worktogether to build awareness for
this crucial chapter of our history.
Don't miss this powerful blend of performance, education and
commemoration that aligns with Connecticut's recent legislative
recognition of these historical injustices.
(42:10):
Active prevention is one powerful way to help eliminate
accusations of witchcraft. This past August, Doctor Leo
Igue alerted advocates from various global nonprofit
organizations that an event was to take place in Nigeria called
That Witch Must Die. Such an event would usually
(42:31):
bring witchcraft accusations forth, most likely leading to
the deaths of many innocent people.
Doctor Eway provided the organizations with the necessary
contact information of several human rights agencies and
Nigerian officials. We asked these agencies and
officials to put pressure on thepastor heading the event,
(42:54):
reminding him that it is illegalto accuse someone of witchcraft
in Nigeria. It worked.
Advocates from Doctor Egwe's organization infiltrated the
program and reported back to ourorganizations that not one
person was accused of a witchcraft.
Many lives were saved through preventative measures that
(43:17):
evening. Thank you.
Thank you for listening to WitchHunt.
Join us next week. If you like what you've heard
today, please subscribe to WitchHunt.
Wherever you get your podcasts. Visit us@witchhuntshow.com for
more great content. Have a great today and a
(43:37):
beautiful. Tomorrow.
There's this wrong belief. That the body path of pursuit
with albinism can provide some form of good luck, some kind of
fortune or or good luck or moneymake you wealthy and therefore.
People with albinism. Are targeted for ritual attacks.
Welcome to witch hunt the. Podcast bringing you the latest
developments in the struggle against witchcraft accusations
(00:22):
and ritual attacks, I'm Josh Hutchinson.
I'm Sarah Jack. Throughout human history,
differences have often been met with fear, superstition, and
sometimes violence. Today, we're exploring how these
age-old reactions continue to impact vulnerable populations
around the world. We're honored to welcome Maluca
(00:44):
and Medi Drummond, the UN independent expert on the
enjoyment of human rights by persons with albinism.
Her work reveals how supernatural beliefs and harmful
practices continue to threaten lives in the 21st century.
From ritual attacks fueled by misguided beliefs about good
fortune to accusations of witchcraft targeting society's
(01:05):
most vulnerable, MIDI Drummond helps us understand.
Both the scope of these. Challenges and the path towards
positive change. The conversation ahead touches
on difficult topics but also offers hope through education,
awareness, and community engagement.
We'll explore UN Resolution 47 Eight and learn how nations
worldwide are working to protectvulnerable populations while
(01:29):
respecting religious and cultural freedoms.
Let's get right to this important discussion about human
rights, supernatural beliefs, and the ongoing work to ensure
safety and dignity for all. Welcome to Witch Hunt podcast.
It's such a privilege to have you here today.
Please tell us about your background in your current role
(01:52):
with the United Nations. Thank you for having me, it's
great to be here. Today and to be able to be a
part of your. Podcast.
My name is Maluca and Mickey Drummond and I am joining you
today from Lusaka. Zambia I am.
The United Nations independent expert on the enjoyment of
human. Rights by persons with albinism.
It's a very. Long title I always say and it
(02:13):
can be abbreviated to UN independent.
Expert on albinism. So what that means basically is
that I have been. Appointed by the United Nations
to advance and promote the rights of persons with albinism
throughout the world. And we can get a bit.
More into that later. If need be.
What are some of the challenges being faced by persons with
(02:35):
albinism? Thanks.
Obviously, since the United Nations thought fit to have an
independent expert on the. Rights of persons with albinism
is your question is very relevant.
Yes, if the mandate. Was set up because of.
The human rights violations, thepersons that albinism face, I
think I should maybe. Explain what I mean by persons
with albinism. It's not always.
(02:56):
A term that most people. Use.
So when we talk about persons with albinism, we're talking
about people with a genetic condition which is
characterized. By lack of melanin in their
hair, skin and eyes, so I think.The term that most.
People will be aware of is the term albino, but this is the
term that we no longer use because it focuses so much on
(03:20):
the condition rather than on theperson.
But I do sometimes. Refer to that because I think
once people hear that term then they're like, OK, now I know
what we're talking about, but persons with albinism is
preferred because it highlights the person before the condition.
So yes. There are a number of.
Violations of persons with albinism face thus being stigma
(03:41):
and discrimination, and out of that comes a lot of other
violations of rights. So with persons with albinism.
As we. Said tend to look different from
the general population. I should say that persons with.
Albinism, they're people with albinism are all races of all
ethnicities all over the world, and the main characteristic is
(04:02):
that they they. Always appear lighter than
people of their counterparts. Of the same rate of the same and
so they would always appear muchlighter the hair would have.
Varying colours, but it's depending.
On. A shade of.
Blondes to maybe almost white, and this makes them stand out.
The appearance makes them stand out.
And because of the appearance and the differences in their
(04:24):
appearance, they're unfortunately exposed to a lot
of stigma and discrimination. And this manifests in different
ways. It could be in relation to like
accessing a job or just your interactions with society.
But it goes to as much as as far.
As. People with albinism,
unfortunately. In some parts of the world,
mainly in African countries, being killed because they look
(04:46):
different and because people don't understand the condition
and so yes. The violations could be in
relation to education, employment equality.
We've talked about education is another one, and education is.
Maybe because of lack of understanding of the other needs
that accompany albinism and the other concerns that accompany
(05:08):
albinism as well. Do women and girls have more
specific challenges within thosechallenges?
So when we look at women and girls, unfortunately there's
always a lot. More challenges for women and
girls in general because you're having a you're discriminated
against because you are a woman,because you are female, and then
(05:29):
you add on top. Of that.
Being someone with albinism. So you've got the double
discrimination. You're discriminated against
because of your albinism and because you're a woman.
And so that we do see. Differences so.
For example, I've talked about. Killings of persons with
albinism and I haven't explainedthem and the killings is because
people wrongly believe that because someone with albinism
(05:52):
looks different because they can't understand, Particularly
in the African context where most people are highly pigmented
and then a child is born with albinism to parents who are both
very highly pigmented and the child is very, very paling
complexion almost looking Caucasian and because they.
Can't people? Cannot always understand this
(06:14):
difference then there's this wrong belief that the body path
of tissues with albinism can provide some form of good luck
some kind of fortune or or good luck or money make you wealthy
and. Therefore, people with albinism
are targeted and for ritual. Attacks with the idea that their
body path can be used in ritual practices or portions to give
(06:37):
luck. When it comes to women with
albinism, it's. Also the body of a woman with
albinism that's objectified and avid and again.
There's a. Superstition.
So some people may believe that having sexual intercourse with a
woman with albinism can cure sexually child admitted diseases
including HIV aid. So unfortunately that would lead
to sexual exploitation, rape of women, girls with albinism as
(07:01):
well due to this very wrong belief.
Yeah, related to the condition. How do we confront
stigmatisation? So what is important is
education, education awareness raising.
At the moment, albinism is just.It's a condition that.
People don't really understand, don't really know.
And whenever there's something that people don't understand,
(07:24):
they try and seek. To give it another reason,
another explanation, and unfortunately that explanation
is tends to be based on. Witchcraft based on
superstition. If we could get more education,
more understanding, even more visibility, because I think the
other concern. Is also that you don't always
see people with albinism and albinism is kind of rare.
(07:45):
So when you do see someone with albinism.
It's so surprising. And you will then assume all
this person must be supernatural, must be a
blessing, must. Be a curse.
So I think education. First of all, is very important
educating people on albinism. What is albinism?
What causes albinism? Not that it's the superstition
(08:05):
that you have, like it's caused by supernatural.
Things, but it's a scientific. Explanation The genetic
condition is caused by both parents carrying this gene.
It's basically. A lack of melanin and does not
keep pistols with albinism any supernatural powers.
And when it comes to visibility as well, I think the more people
get used to something that then.The less you take away the kind
(08:29):
of strangeness of of something on of the power.
So when it. Comes to albinism I think.
If we have more visibility of persons with albinism.
It becomes less of a. Something that's of an.
I hate to use the word, but I can't think of a better word at
the moment of an oddity in offence.
And having persons with albinism.
In the media. Persons with albinism in
(08:51):
commercials, on posters, just. Normalizing albinism in a sense
can also help to get rid of the stigma and the discrimination.
The other thing that I. Alluded to is the specific lead
of persons with albinism due to,I said, other conditions
accompanying their their their albinism.
(09:12):
And that's basically in relation.
To visual. Impairment.
So persons with albinism. Have photophobia Sensitivity to
the sun. Will have nystagmus, the rapid
eye movement from 1:00. From left to right.
And persons with albinism will. Will have maybe strabismus and
low visual acuity as well. And I think a lack of
(09:34):
understanding of these. Conditions as well adds to the
the the stigma and discrimination.
When somebody sees a person whose eyes are moving rapidly
from side to side, and they don't understand why the
person's eyes are moving, they're more likely to attribute
something negative. Towards it for education.
About nystagmus, but also understanding that because of
(09:56):
the low visual acuity, persons with albinism will require
larger print documents, will require magnifiers and the like,
and may not. Do so well at school because
they're not being. Provided with the support they
need. A child with.
Albinism is sitting in front, can't see the board.
The teacher may just assume thatthis child is being lazy or is
not intelligent. However, the child just cannot
(10:17):
see. The board cannot read their
book. And I think because of that
then? Stigma and discrimination also
comes up with misconceptions about the intelligence of
persons with albinism in parts of the world.
So dealing. With some of those issues as
well to make sure that we're. Creating a level playing.
Ground for persons with albinism, so that also helps to
reach a stigma and discrimination against them when
(10:38):
they have a level playing groundas well.
You mentioned ritual attacks. What would we need to understand
about them and how does it relate to harmful practices?
So the number of harmful. We talk about harmful.
Practices against that. Cause harm to others.
And sometimes. Harmful practices are related
(11:00):
to. Thoughts.
Beliefs. Superstitions.
Most of the time very wrong beliefs, superstitions and.
May it may even be. Religion.
It might be witchcraft. So in the context of albinism,
they are harmful practices. Against persons with albinism
for use in witchcraft for ritualpurposes, though.
(11:21):
As I mentioned the some. People wrongly believe that the
body part can provide you with good luck.
And if you're someone who. Believes in witchcraft or ritual
practices. And you want to get ahead in
life, You want to have some. Good luck, you want to have some
fortunes the body parts a personwith albinism may you may be
informed that you need. To forget the body.
(11:42):
Parts of a person, someone with albinism, in order to produce a
charm or a potion or something that will give you that good
luck. Of course, this is all fake.
It's all wrong. And I have to mention that and
be very clear that this is theseare all wrong superstition.
But because of that, then there are now.
These harmful practices, abductions of persons with
albinism, mutilation, we have cases.
(12:03):
Of. Children's arms, unfortunately
being. Chopped off fingers, other body
parts, children and adults, but unfortunately children are
disproportionately affected and sometimes it's it may not even
seem that hard or that bad in the sense that.
I'll give an example. We have some cases where
somebody's. Hair was cut off.
(12:24):
Someone with albinism. The hair was cut off.
And you're thinking well. Not that bad.
It's not causing any bleeding, it's not really causing any.
Pain. Your hair will grow back.
But ultimately, the reason it was cut off?
Was to be used in ritual practices.
And of course, it creates that concern that, OK, today it's
your hair. What is it tomorrow and the
next? Day and yeah, it relates.
(12:45):
To all these. Kind of.
Attacks that could happen against someone with albinism.
You gave a keynote address at the International Conference on
Witchcraft and Human Rights in Lancaster, England, in
September. What was the significance of
that conference? So the conference was very
(13:05):
useful in highlighting a resolution that was.
Adopted by the United Nations. And the resolution looks
specifically. At harmful practices related to
accusations of witchcraft and ritual attacks on and.
How states can eliminate these? Harmful practices, so the.
Resolution The full name of. The resolution is the UN
resolution on the elimination ofHarmful.
(13:27):
Practices related to accusationsof.
Witchcraft and mutual attack again, another very long.
Title, but so the resolution is multipaceted.
On the one hand, it's. Looking at accusations of
witchcraft, it's not looking at witchcraft specifically.
But more the harm that's. Caused when somebody is accused
of being a witch or performing witchcraft.
(13:48):
And on the other hand, it's alsolooking at.
Harmful practices which are. Related to the practice.
Of witchcraft or in in the the words that the resolution uses
ritual attacks. So ritual attacks often occur in
relation to the practice of witchcraft and there will be
harmful practices like in the context of persons with
albinism, mutilations, abductions, all because they're
(14:12):
being used, body parts are beingsought to be used for witchcraft
purposes or ritual purposes. So yes, the resolution is
broader than just albinism. It's.
Very essential. It's very important because it
deals with a lot of. Issues.
That are not currently being covered by treaties, wholly
covered by other treaties or by UN, not very, very many UN
(14:33):
bodies. So I think it's good to have a
resolution that looks into that.And also, just to say, I think
the resolution, yes, touches on persons with albinism, but it
also touches on other groups of vulnerable people older.
Persons with other forms of disabilities it could be.
Anybody. That seems different.
Who? That does not meet the.
Expectations of society. It may be that you've got
(14:55):
epilepsy or you have dementia, or you have you exhibit
behaviour that is seen as difficult or not conventional
and therefore you are either a witch.
Or demon possessed or somebody. That we can potentially use for
witchcraft purposes. And so it's great that it covers
(15:15):
more than just carbonism, which is what my mandate covers, but
the resolution is much broader. What does Resolution 47 eight
suggest for Member States? What steps is it?
Yes. So the resolution is
multifaceted, I think what firstand foremost.
It's very clear that it. Doesn't prohibit a belief in
(15:39):
witchcraft. It doesn't prohibit any
religious beliefs or any beliefsin the supernatural.
We can't or it doesn't regulate people's thoughts or beliefs.
Religion. But what it does is prohibit
harmful practices that are carried out.
Because of that, I would always say that if your belief is that
(15:59):
you need to go and dig up a particular root and drink it,
and the root doesn't cause you any harm and drink it, that's
fine. If your belief is that you need
to hunt a tree or dance around atree or.
Whatever. Without being offensive to
anyone. That is fine, because you're not
hurting. Anybody and the resolution does
not. Stop that.
(16:20):
The resolution does not stop youfrom singing or worshipping
ancestors or anything like that.It only comes into action.
When you harm somebody now because of that belief and or
you harm somebody, kill somebody, whatever, because of
that belief. So the resolution then fix for
stakes to ensure. That they take measures to end
(16:41):
all these, kind of. Practices is cause for studies.
On the one hand, so that there'sa better understanding what are
the harmful. Practices what?
What are the beliefs in the superstition that lead to these
harmful practices? What measures will be needed to
be taken? So studies are one of the areas
that it looks at, it looks at. Laws.
Reviewing laws. Because sometimes some countries
(17:04):
will. Have laws that inadvertently
maybe allow perpetrators of these to get away, to get away
with killing someone because it's their religious beliefs or
the laws don't go far enough in the case of albinism, for
example. And and I'll give albinism
because that's where I work. That's the area I work in.
(17:25):
Persons with albinism are often intact in circumstances that
amount to trafficking. They load.
Away from their homes, taken to somewhere else, Whether.
Within the country or outside the country?
And then? Exploited because a body part of
is taken enough. Exploitation and this basically,
and sometimes it involves. Organized criminal groups.
(17:45):
But this basically fall. Within the definition of human
trafficking, but. Laws don't always allow for
attacks. Against persons with albinism to
be seen as human trafficking because they're looking at
trafficking for the purposes of labour.
You have to take me and force meto work somewhere, or you have
to take me and force me into intersect work or something.
(18:07):
So the need to change laws. Some of it may also be like
regulating witchcraft practices so that you make sure that
people are allowed to practice and to to express their belief,
but in the process of those witchcraft practices.
You're not allowed to harm another person.
So prohibiting the possession ofa body part, prohibiting the use
(18:29):
of human tissue or organs or bland and making sure that any
witch Doctor Who is regulated, registered, any traditional
healer, whatever however you want to call them is not does
not possess a body part is not using a human body part.
It's not using a human tissue and making that clear because
(18:49):
the moment your practice requires you to use a human
tissue. Then we know that somewhere.
Along the line, somebody's goingto be exposed to harmful
practice which is related to your practice.
And it calls on states as well to look at their own.
What is the context? In which they're working so
we're not looking at A1 size because every country will have
different contexts What is the context why and again that goes
(19:12):
back to the research what is thereason why it's growing up in
these practices are happening what are the beliefs what is.
The stigma and discrimination against certain people.
Because we will find that. In some countries.
There will be older women who are being targeted more.
In other countries. It will be children with
disabilities. Why is that?
What are the beliefs that are fuelling attacks against these
(19:34):
particular groups of people? And then make.
Sure that you are then taking measures to prevent.
That the and and then it just. Asks for both for a variety of
issues. So we've talked about legal
issues, but there's also community based issues.
How do you work? With the community and with
community leaders to demystify some of these issues and make
sure that people are not being targeted and killed or hurt in
(19:58):
the process. Working with traditional
leaders, working with religious leaders in ensuring education as
well. You touched on the need.
For studies to happen, why is reliable data so hard to come
by? Yeah, the problem is that.
A lot of these practices happen in so much secret.
(20:20):
There's a lot of secrecy. Around.
Witchcraft beliefs. Sorcery.
Supernatural Beliefs. So much secrecy and sometimes
unfortunately, even involvement of families.
Or people who would maybe reportthe.
Crime, and sometimes, sometimes they are the.
Ones who are actually involved and if we're dealing with
accusations of witchcraft, for example.
(20:41):
Sometimes, if the family members.
Will. Accuse a child.
Of being a witch because they the child is just not behaving
as they expect them to to behave.
And it may be that the child actually has a mental health.
Condition and they don't understand it.
So because of the involvement of.
Family because of secrecy, because of the stigma, sometimes
that's associated with it. Then there's lack of reporting
(21:04):
as well. There's lower reporting.
And lack of visibility of the concerns as well.
I think it's not something that we talk about generally the UN
doesn't talk about it that much.It's.
Great that we have a. Resolution.
Now that's highlighting this. And so if something is
invisible, it gets. Ignored, it doesn't get it
doesn't get resolved, it doesn'tget the.
Action that it requires. And so no one's talking about
(21:26):
it. So no one's.
Actually looking for it, that's another concern of very few,
actually, there are people who are doing it, but very few
people are actually looking for it and for the concerns and they
end up continuing to be invisible and.
Sometimes it's also how they arereported if you don't specify
that there was a purpose. That the purpose was related to
spiritual beliefs. Spiritual mean.
(21:48):
If you don't specify again, going back to albinism, we have
another a number of cases that happened where the.
Courts, the police don't. Specify that the.
Victim was a person with albinism.
Because if I guess if they do specify.
That immediately raises concernsand red flags.
As in, could this have been a ritual attack?
But if you just say an individual was killed, we may
(22:11):
just assume it's a normal crime and so those get lost in the
data and then and don't get counted.
So yeah, secrecy, invisibility of the concern, involvement of
family members and just the lackof.
Belief in witchcraft and sorcery.
I'm not. Saying we should believe in it,
but the fact is that whether youbelieve in it or not, people are
(22:31):
being killed because of because.Someone out there believes in
witchcraft and sorcery. And I think sometimes.
We just. Don't want to talk about it
because we just feel like it doesn't exist.
It doesn't happen. Why are we even?
Talking about witchcraft, it's the stuff of.
Fiction and. Because of that, then we're
missing out on a lot of cases and and and just to.
Reiterate we don't have to believe in it, but people.
(22:53):
Out there do. And so we have to.
Make. Sure that we are responding to
the harmful practices that come out of it.
And then if you go broader, how does the world, what does the
world need to do? To implement. 47 Eight.
Possible recognise that people. Are being killed because of it.
(23:15):
We need to start reporting. We need to.
Start highlighting how bad. The problem is.
And if you're not? Looking for it, you don't see it
so. I think we need to.
Become more aware. That they are.
These things are actually happening.
Highlight them, Report the cases, insist on justice being
done. And.
Educate as well, because I thinksometimes it's there's just that
(23:38):
belief that the person was a witch.
So what happens in some cases isthat.
Somebody's accused of being a witch or is accused of having
caused bad luck and. So no one really others will may
not want to take action because they.
Feel that person got what was coming to them and often times
actually they are not. They have not done anything,
(23:59):
anything bad or anything harmful.
It's just. Other people who have accused
them of it. So.
Making people aware of these kind of superstitions and
stigma. Taking action and making the
cases visible and I think it needs to also become kind of an
aggravating. Factor in a court case than to
say well. This was carried out.
(24:21):
Because of belief in superstition.
And while we're not saying you cannot have your own beliefs.
You cannot kill somebody. Because of these beliefs and
therefore. Because this was a targeted.
Attack on this basis, we'll giveit.
A harsh offense. Or something like that.
And. Those who have studied law.
We searched through. Legal cases.
(24:42):
On the basis of certain. Keywords.
And I think witchcraft needs to.Be one of those keywords so that
it's easier for us to find thosecases that relate to witchcraft.
I find a lot of times because I'm looking for it every now and
then you will hear cases. Of This woman was killed after
being accused of a witch. And the reporting sometimes
(25:02):
actually makes things worse. Because they will say this witch
was killed or where we haven't even.
Had a child. We don't even know if the.
Woman was indeed a. Witch and the point being that
there there will be reports about somebody being accused of
witchcraft. And being killed.
But we don't get the reports of what happened to.
Those to to the people who killed her or him.
Generally her. Unfortunately, most of the time
(25:24):
it's more women. What happened to them?
Were they taken to court? Were they brought to justice?
And so it creates this. Appearance of impunity and
almost. As in, as if justifying, OK,
there are cases that are out there and people are getting
killed. We're doing nothing about it.
In a sense, we're justifying. These killings, and in a way
(25:45):
we're giving permission for people to continue doing these
killings. So I think reporting not only of
the accusation and the killing. Or they're, in the case of
albinism, the the killing of a person with albinism for ritual
purposes. But also it's essential.
To report the prosecutions. And how much?
What was the sentence? This will serve as a deterrent.
(26:07):
And get it out. There so that people can see
that actually, it's just not. Affectable and that if.
You do this, you will face the full extent of the law as well,
so that needs to be done as well.
And you referred to this earlieras well, but currently, instead
of being an aggravating factor, witchcraft belief or a wrong
(26:28):
belief about persons with albinism is often seen as a
mitigating factor. And it's true that in some some
jurisdictions it it is seen as amitigating factor that you
carried. This out because you believed in
witchcraft and because your beliefs.
Either witchcraft or your religious beliefs or and again
(26:48):
to it feels like we're. Excusing this fake, it's
justifying that. Your beliefs, be it in
witchcraft, be it in religion, be it in anything else or
called, can justify you killing somebody.
And I think that goes counter towhat the resolution is saying.
The resolution is saying that. There should be no.
Justification for harming any person on the basis of your
(27:10):
belief. Practice your belief.
But don't harm any person because of it.
Thank you. What would you like to tell us
about your fact finding travels that you've recently?
Does kind of my. Work I do fact finding missions.
I am invited by the States to different countries to look into
(27:30):
the. Situation of persons with
albinism and. I've just come back.
From what we call an official country visit to the United
States. I should say.
Best and foremost because we've just been talking about
witchcraft practices and ritual attacks.
That was not the purpose. And thankfully.
I did not find any cases of attacks against persons with
albinism or killings. Against persons with albinism in
(27:53):
relation to witchcraft. At all or any?
Patience of killing the person with albinism.
I think if they were there they didn't come up on my radar and
may have been for other reasons not purely related to the
albinism. A lot of the things that did
come up though was. There is still stigma and
discrimination even in the US. And stigma and discrimination.
(28:14):
Against persons with albinism ofall races as well comes up as
well and. Also between.
People of the same races. And therefore when we look.
At that, we look at it as. More discrimination on the.
Basis of color. And I think that's one thing
that. People don't always consider
(28:35):
you. You'd consider that we're the
same race. And so if I make a joke, a joke,
if I discriminate against you, I'm not being racist.
It's just, you know. But if I do that.
And it's because you look at your colouring.
Is different then it's colourismand that came up a bit like the
issue of. Colourism came up.
And I think again, the lack of understanding.
(28:58):
Of albinism and the specific needs of persons with albinism.
But I think what was most interesting for.
Me and what? Really.
Needs to be highlighted. I visited Puerto Rico and Puerto
Rico has the highest. Population of persons with
Hamas. Kipudlak syndrome.
And HPF, as it's known, is a rare form of albinism that's
(29:20):
accompanied by lung disorders, bleeding disorders as well.
And persons with HPF. Will often need a lung
transplant, especially those with a specific type of HPF.
Eventually will need a lung transplant because of the lung
disorders. Will have challenge problems
with bleeding because of the waythe platelet is warped and not
(29:43):
because of the lack. Of platelet.
And that causes problems as well.
And so just the idea that a lot of individuals are unable to
actually access that access the lung.
Transplant and the cost of getting a lung.
Transplant and an emotional financial.
Other costs of getting a lung transplant, maybe leaving the
island where there is no lung transplant affinities and going
(30:06):
to the mainland. And also, I think just the lack
of. Diagnosis as well.
There's a high level of HPS but still people with albinism being
born on the island are not. Necessarily tested for HPS and
because of that there are more complications that that arise in
future and may be wrong medical procedures used because you
(30:27):
don't understand that maybe thisperson have HPS and if I do
this, they may actually bleed profusely.
And so I have to take these steps to counter the possibility
of bleeding and oh, I don't needto replace the platelets because
it's not about the number of platelets and the like.
Turning back to the resolution and implementing it, one of the
(30:50):
developments that we've seen hasbeen the creation of the Pan
African Parliament's guidelines.Can you tell us what those
guidelines are about? Yes, so the guidelines borrow.
Exactly the name of the. UN resolution in a sense and so
if the Pan African Parliament guidelines on the.
(31:11):
Elimination of harmful practicesrelated to accurations of
witchcraft and ritual. Attacks.
These are guidelines that were adopted by.
As the name. Suggests the Pan African
Parliament. And they are.
Guidelines that are directed to parliamentarians.
Across the African continent. So that they can take into.
Consideration measures that can be used to eliminate such
(31:33):
harmful practices they are. Actually a bit more broader than
the UN resolution and go into a.Lot more detail around the kind
of the Community measures and the legal measures.
And also they go so that the UN resolution.
Is is a lot? Briefer and may imply that this
should be done with the Pan African Parliament.
(31:54):
They're a bit more explicit and they go into ideas of education,
not just educating about conditions, but education
around. Phenomena as well that may lead
to attacks against people, harmful practices related to
accusations of which. Cause, for example, climate
change. Related natural disasters.
So in some areas it was suddenlyflooding or experiencing some
(32:19):
other kind of cyclone. Another kind of natural disaster
and you happen to have someone in the community that has a
disability, have epilepsy, albinism.
You may then think we're experiencing this bad luck
because of this person, and thenthat person is then going to be
attacked. So the need to understand, for
(32:39):
people to also be educated. That this is a natural
phenomenon, it's not being carried out by any human being,
by any individual, and thereforeyou don't need to blame it on
that person and attack that person.
And also just the need to include education early on.
So in the school curriculum explaining genetic conditions.
So that children start. From early on, knowing that.
(33:01):
Not. Everybody looks like me or
sounds like me and may have thisdifference.
And so by the time they're an adult.
They're already accepting of differences and less likely to
see this as a superstitious. Thing the Pan African Parliament
guideline also contain a study or it so it starts off with a
study and then a summary with. The guideline at the back and I
(33:22):
think. That was also useful in showing
that people understand why it's such a problem.
And why the guidelines are beingadopted and they're not just
coming out of nowhere, they've some specific concern that they
are responding to. And it's hoped that the the
parliamentarians will use it to.Develop legislation and the like
across the continent. How do we help nations adopt
(33:47):
national action plans? For the various national action
plans, we've had national actionplans around albinism.
And. Mainly aimed at eliminating.
These ritual attacks so harmful practice the the ritual attacks
related to witchcraft. And the national action plans.
Are always holistic. We look at it as in it's multi.
(34:07):
Faceted the things that contribute.
To this position come from different areas so.
We look at the criminal justice system.
And where are. The failures and how can we make
sure that? The criminal justice system is
responding to the attacks so that we.
They can be a proper deterrent. And there can be no impunity.
We'll look at root causes as well.
What is causing this education and awareness raising?
(34:29):
What about persons with albinismmay make people have this wrong
belief? And like I talked about visual
impairment and all that. And so the need to show
education, health needs and all that are being tackled with.
So when it comes to the nationalaction plans on albinism the way
we have. Worked is to bring together.
Those impacted by the concerns, organizations of persons with
(34:51):
albinism and then bringing government officials and any
other. Stakeholders to discuss.
First of all. What is the problem?
A detailed situational analysis Problems so that we understand,
rather than just assuming, that these broad concerns apply to
every country. What is the specific?
Concern in our country and now that we have the situational
(35:12):
analysis and understand the specific concern, how do we
respond to all these specific issues, root causes and then
work together with government authorities to ensure that this
is then developed into a national action plan.
And what is really important is that the National Action Plan
has a budget. There's no point in having.
The National action Plan that. Has no budget and can't before.
(35:34):
Can't have any impact and. Related to budgeting is
understanding. If the data collection, what is
the? Extent of the.
Problem How many people are are impacted?
What? Kind of funding now that we have
all. These different data and
statistics. How much?
Funding. Do we really need to respond to
this group of people? And the same can be done as well
(35:55):
for. Accusations of witchcraft.
The development of national action plans looking at the
elimination of these harmful practices.
And that. Again, would require bringing in
the specific stakeholders. All in this country are being
accused of being witches. All in this country.
Are being attacked for the purposes of ritual because it
won't be the same people in the same country.
(36:18):
And I think I just have to say Ikeep using.
Witchcraft, but I think it's very.
Important to say that the revolution goes beyond.
Witchcraft. It also talks about religious
beliefs. And, and sometimes it's kind of
hard to see or we separate them.We think, OK, religion is one
thing. Witchcraft is another thing,
but. What binds them together That.
They're both a belief in supernatural without causing
(36:42):
offence to anyone you. Believe in God.
God is supernatural, and so that's what.
Binds the two issues together that.
If anything that is based. On the belief.
Or something that cannot be. Seen something that is
supernatural and. Causing harmful, causing harm to
someone. Else because of that.
So if you. Accuse a child of demon
possession. You're not accusing.
(37:03):
Them of being a witch per SE. But you are accusing them of
having supernatural powers. And being able to influence the
world around. Them.
And so, in a sense, you are. Accusing them of being a witch
in a sense so. I feel like I need to highlight
that because people would think we don't.
I don't. I haven't.
Accused anyone of witch of beinga witch.
But the moment you. Say somebody is human possessed.
(37:26):
It's a similar kind. Of thing, it's just you're using
a different framework, the framework of religion, as
opposed to the framework of witchcraft or occultism.
And what's a national action plan is developed by a nation?
How does the international community help that nation to go
forward with implementation? So it would depend on the the
(37:49):
country and how much. Outreach has been done to the
international community. Sometimes it's with resources,
sometimes it's with technical knowledge, with way if a
national action plan. For example, calls for awareness
raising. Education that may be done.
Within the country, people may understand the best way of
ensuring the education and the awareness raising within their
(38:10):
own context. If it calls for assistance to
vulnerable groups. So.
For example, again I'll go back to albinism because of the.
Lack of understanding of. Albinism.
One of the things I haven't mentioned skin cancer.
Persons with albinism. Are highly susceptible to skin
damage due to the effects of thesun.
And that includes skin. Cancer and sometimes that
(38:31):
includes other kind of bruising spots and you see a.
Person with albinism that looks.Like that and you believe
something supernatural about them?
But that appearance can also be prevented.
Through the use of sunscreen andand often.
Takes with us. Because the person has photo
ageing has been impacted by the sun so.
They have sunscreen that can. Prevent some of that which also
(38:54):
causes some superstitions. So then the international.
Community may come in with research on a condition that can
help explain. Or can come in with support for
sunscreen or support. For assistive devices.
If we're talking. About epilepsy What kind of
research can be done in relationto epilepsy in the country by
(39:17):
the international community? What kind of?
Support can be given to. Other children with.
Autism Sometimes, unfortunately maybe that you've got autism and
you're accused of being a witch,and sometimes international
community can come in and provide support around that.
What should our listeners do with the information they've
(39:38):
learned today? Educator file it's always.
Important to read up. And understand more so we, you
know, for some people, it's the first time that they're.
Hearing about the UN resolution,it's.
Available. I would recommend reading more
about it. I have tried to provide some
information about it but it's. Always good to read on your own.
(40:00):
Look out for the situation. Maybe you've never.
Thought of accusations of witchcraft or brutal attacks and
harmful practices related to this.
Maybe now you can do more. Research into it and speak up as
well. Speak up as well so.
Educate yourself. Research.
And speak up. Where you see some of these
concerns? And sometimes I think just to be
(40:21):
aware that it it doesn't have. To be as extreme as somebody
being killed it. Starts from small things and
often we accuse people if if. They're different, or if they.
Are excelling too much especially.
Women who seem to be doing way more than they should might be
accused of being a witch or using occult practices or using
(40:43):
chance or or whatever, I think. Being aware of that and
questioning now and not just. Absorbing everything that you
read and you hear. And just asking what's the root
cause and if this were in another country or if this were
to? Escalate and get worse.
What couldn't be the potential harmful practices?
And I think it's useful to to challenge oneself as well with
(41:07):
our own thought processes. And now, Sir, how's the special
announcement? Please join us on February 1st,
2025 at Hartford CT's Old State House at 1:00 PM for a free
community history event remembering the innocent victims
of the Connecticut Witch Trials.It's a special 2 hour
(41:28):
commemoration of those who lost their lives in colonial
Connecticut's witch trials. award-winning performers Deborah
Walsh and Jenny Wolf will open with a dramatic reading of the
last night followed by insights from the Connecticut Witch Trial
Exoneration Project founders andrenowned historians.
We will honor the victims with aremembrance ceremony joined by
(41:48):
State Representative Jane Garabe.
Connect with fellow community members and witch trial history
descendants afterward as we worktogether to build awareness for
this crucial chapter of our history.
Don't miss this powerful blend of performance, education and
commemoration that aligns with Connecticut's recent legislative
recognition of these historical injustices.
(42:10):
Active prevention is one powerful way to help eliminate
accusations of witchcraft. This past August, Doctor Leo
Igue alerted advocates from various global nonprofit
organizations that an event was to take place in Nigeria called
That Witch Must Die. Such an event would usually
(42:31):
bring witchcraft accusations forth, most likely leading to
the deaths of many innocent people.
Doctor Eway provided the organizations with the necessary
contact information of several human rights agencies and
Nigerian officials. We asked these agencies and
officials to put pressure on thepastor heading the event,
(42:54):
reminding him that it is illegalto accuse someone of witchcraft
in Nigeria. It worked.
Advocates from Doctor Egwe's organization infiltrated the
program and reported back to ourorganizations that not one
person was accused of a witchcraft.
Many lives were saved through preventative measures that
(43:17):
evening. Thank you.
Thank you for listening to WitchHunt.
Join us next week. If you like what you've heard
today, please subscribe to WitchHunt.
Wherever you get your podcasts. Visit us@witchhuntshow.com for
more great content. Have a great today and a
(43:37):
beautiful. Tomorrow.
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