October 9, 2024 • 71 mins
Join Sarah and Josh as they talk about their recent experiences at two dynamic UK conferences focused on witchcraft and human rights. In this fun and reflective episode, our hosts share the insights gained from the York CREMS Magic and Witchcraft Conference 2024 and the Lancaster "Witchcraft and Human Rights: Past, Present, Future" conference, which centered on the implementation of United Nations Resolution 47/8. Learn about the presentations Sarah and Josh delivered for their nonprofit, End Witch Hunts, including talks on the Connecticut Witch Trial Exoneration Project, the End Spiritual and Ritual Abuse (SARA) data collection project, and the World Without Witch Hunts Project. Our hosts share about the fascinating research and presentations of the other experts in the field, which offered experienced perspectives on both historical and contemporary issues surrounding witchcraft accusations. Get up to speed on the current status of implementing Resolution 47/8, which addresses human rights violations related to witchcraft accusations and ritual attacks. This episode showcases how these conferences bring together a diverse group of historians, human rights advocates, legal experts, and social scientists in a collaborative effort to combat ongoing witchcraft-related human rights abuses. Whether you're a history enthusiast, a human rights advocate, or simply curious about this often-overlooked global issue, this first hand report promises to broaden your understanding of the intersection between history, human rights, and modern efforts to end witch hunts worldwide.
Buy America Bewitched Book by Owen Davies
Wolfgang Behringer, Witches and Witch Hunts: A Global History
Papua New Guinea Sorcery and Witchcraft Accusation-Related Violence National Action Plan
Pan African Parliament Guidelines for Addressing Accusations of Witchcraft and Ritual Attacks
Donate to Our UK Conference Trip to speak and learn about ending witch hunts
Advocacy for Alleged Witches, Nigeria
The International Network Against Accusations of Witchcraft and Associated Harmful Practices
Zoom Event World Day Against Witch Hunts 10th August, 2024.
International Alliance to End Witch Hunts
IK Ero On Next Steps For Ending Witch Hunts TINAAWAHP
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to Witch Hunt, the podcast where for the last two
years we've been talking to you about witch trial history and
contemporary witch hunts known as harmful practices.
I'm Josh Hutchinson. And I'm Sarah Jack.
In fact, this week is our 2nd anniversary as a podcast, and
(00:20):
this is the episode where we're going to talk about the
conference's we were able to attend in England in September.
That's right, we've come a long way since our first episode
about Connecticut witch trial history.
Now we've become advocates in this sphere, working with others
to raise awareness and bring an end to harmful practices related
(00:42):
to accusations of witchcraft, where basically people accuse
someone of bewitching them or their family or their
possessions, and then attack them.
On this trip we were able to meet for the first time at least
eleven of our incredible guests who we have featured on previous
(01:05):
episodes. We got to talk to them in person
and it was amazing. It really was.
There's something very differentabout meeting somebody in person
versus just talking to them overZoom and emails.
For those of you who podcast or guest, there is an affinity in
(01:26):
the podcasting community. You feel like friends when you
meet someone who has podcasting experience or it's their hobby
or their profession, and meetingour guest was much like that.
Was amazing. It was so great to meet people
from all around the world, many different nations on most of the
(01:47):
continents, and just being in one place with all these
brilliant minds, these great thinkers, was quite a treat.
Let's tell our listeners about how we met our guests.
Let's do that. We started with a conference at
the University of York, the Magic and Witchcraft Conference,
(02:07):
sponsored by the Center for Renaissance and Early Modern
Studies, and it was quite brilliant.
The theme was healing and healthfrom antiquity to 1850.
But right from the start of our getting into York, we had such a
great experience in that city. We came in on a train, we hopped
(02:31):
into a taxi and our accommodations were
contemporary. But when you walk out the door
and you hit the cobblestone, it was like walking back in time on
our way to the university. We got to pass through the
fabulous Rd. called The Shambles, which has.
(02:54):
The Shambles Market used to be the road where they laid out all
the meats, the butchers laid outall their finest cuts of meat,
and today it's still a busy shopping and tourist hub and an
active outdoor market. Well, we passed through the
Shambles, which is medieval Street, so the buildings are
(03:17):
authentic going back centuries. It's quite different coming from
the United States, especially the western United States where
our oldest buildings that we have are from the mid 20th
century in most of our towns. To go to a place that has 2000
(03:40):
years of history that York has since Roman times, it was quite
remarkable. One of the big attractions there
is York Minster, which is a verylarge cathedral and very
impressive looking Gothic structure with all of those
pointy things and the gargoyles and the whole bit.
(04:04):
Yeah. And we also were able to pass
through the old city gates in the ancient city wall that again
dates back. The original walls go back to
Roman times, but were improved upon many times over the
centuries. So what's there today is mostly
(04:24):
Norman I believe, and post Norman, but it's still very
ancient, hundreds of years old. Some of the positions there, the
actual structures, were first inplace in Roman times, back in
the early first Millennium. Passing all of these very
(04:46):
special landmarks brought us to the University of York, where
our conference was. Yeah, we went to lovely Kings
Manor, just got to see this. Amazing.
It has this beautiful ornate Crest above the door that we'll
have to put up a picture here soyou can see what I'm talking
(05:06):
about. But.
Yeah, it's quite. Makes it seem like you're going
into the Kings Manor. It does feel that way and you'll
see the excitement on our face in this selfie that we took
right. It's it was a very lovely
experience there. Yeah, it was so fun walking up
this very short staircase to a second floor and walking into a
(05:32):
classroom, knowing that our friends were going to be in
there prepping for their own presentations.
And it was great. We stood around and greeted each
other and drink some coffee and the conference started.
We got to meet in person DeborahMoretti, Tabitha Stanmore,
(05:54):
Javier Garcia Oliva, and Helen Hall.
You'll recognize those four as previous guests that have been
on this podcast. And we were in a room with all
of them and got to listen to their talks and they got to
listen to us. And it was just a remarkable
experience. And we also met future guests.
(06:17):
Yeah, it was a great conference.There was an online audience as
well as in person attendees and it was a great day.
It flew by so quickly. It was some fun learning about
healing and healers, different magical practices and beliefs
about healing over time especially.
(06:40):
We learned literally like it says from antiquity to 1850,
covered the whole time period inbetween and was amazing.
And then we got to talk. In our presentation at this
first conference, we talked about the beginnings of and
(07:01):
witch hunts, the Connecticut Witch Trial Exoneration Project,
and our podcast. We also got to talk about our
other projects going on in Massachusetts and Connecticut
and the wonderful project happening in the state of
Maryland. So we got to talk about what's
(07:22):
going on in America as far as remembering past victims from
historical trials. And we got to speak about our
involvement and especially Mary Bingham's involvement in the
bold project Building Opportunities for Lives and
Dignities, which is running in the Jharkhand state in India,
(07:45):
which is bringing a holistic solution to ending harmful
practices related to accusationsof witchcraft and also
supporting these survivors of these accusations.
And we're looking forward to future episodes where we talk
(08:06):
about that project much more. Yes, one of the things that I
enjoyed about this conference, listening to the academic
research and then when we had our opportunity to present,
having things come to mind that I'd heard that day in somebody's
(08:27):
paper that matches what's happening right now in
communities in different countries.
It just really was like this. When we're in an episode and we
hear when our conversation, oh, this really matches something we
learned in a previous episode. But then when you like go to a
conference and the subject matter is just enveloping
(08:52):
everything that's still happening and you just see the
continuance there's, it wasn't hard to point out.
Well, let me tell you, these things are still happening.
It was unfortunately so easy because it there were all these
examples and just for listening to it.
So we were just really able to discuss how what they are
(09:17):
researching and how important itis to understanding even the
modern framework of some hunts that are still happening.
Yeah, learning about traditionalhealers of the past and cunning
folk, those sorts of professionsthat occurred in the medieval
(09:40):
period, the early modern period,and learning that you're
realizing that those professionsare still around today and still
involved in witchcraft accusations as they had been
previously. Both occasionally being accused
but not so often themselves, butbeing used in counter magic and
(10:07):
for the detection of witches. When we started this podcast two
years ago, there were conversations happening on
university campuses, in Historical Society meetings, at
local libraries, and in books and blogs.
But over the last two years, this podcast has really made a
(10:29):
space for the conversations. And it just, I really felt that.
The podcast has helped to bring together this network of
academics and advocates who talkin this space, and being at a
(10:49):
conference, which was another form where networking is able to
happen, was very what's insightful, getting chunks of
everybody's mind. In our talk, in addition to
talking about healing and medicinal associations with
(11:10):
witchcraft accusations in the contemporary world, we also
talked about methods to potentially eliminate those
harmful practices from happeningin the 1st place.
And So what we talked about was the need for a holistic approach
(11:30):
with a focus on the conditions that allow witch hunts to occur
so that you can cut them off at the source.
Instead of treating the symptomsof the problem, treat the root
cause, pull it out by those roots and toss it.
And that includes addressing economic conditions and creating
(11:54):
social safety Nets for communities.
Often accusations are happening to families that are
experiencing life changing misfortune that is
unexplainable. And so when you address the
infrastructure. Addressing those underlying
(12:15):
economic conditions that lead tothe great poverty, which is a
big factor in witch hunting, It's one of the sort of
prerequisites. You need some bad things
basically to be happening in somebody's life in order for
them to kind of resort to makinga witchcraft accusation, and you
(12:37):
need them to have no recourse. When people don't have any
recourse, there's no insurance system for crop failures,
there's no safety net to catch them if the bottom falls out
from them economically, it's very easy for that person to
want to blame something or at least seek A cause.
(13:01):
Why did this misfortune happenedto me?
What can I do about it? Where would you have these
safety Nets and insurance mechanisms then?
People are compensated when misfortune happens and they're
not down to that last straw. So these things need to be a big
(13:23):
part of it. And just addressing worldwide
economic conditions is of coursea concern anyways.
The things you just heard Josh touching on those probably sound
familiar to you if you've been listening to historical witch
trial stories, But also we're finding the same influences now.
(13:49):
If you listen to anything we've done about Salem OR Connecticut
or England, Ireland, the same underlying conditions were part
of the problem. Economic conditions, as we know
from contemporary life, are one of the key stressors in
(14:09):
anybody's life. And so economic conditions, the
fear of losing everything, the actually having that happen to
you to where you lose everythingand have no support.
Another area that needs to be addressed is climate change that
(14:29):
is actually intensifying both droughts and storms that can
kill livestock and crops and in turn the people who rely upon
those livestock and crops. And that needs to be addressed
and the economics. And you've got to tackle the
(14:52):
refugee crisis as well. I read recently there's some
millions of people in transit right now in refugee status, and
you do have a lot of people crammed into these refugee camps
and you don't know each other, that things are happening to
(15:14):
people and it just creates another climate for witchcraft
accusations. Another area of importance is to
raise awareness about the consequences of witchcraft
accusations and about laws that may be on the books.
(15:36):
In several nations, there are laws against making witchcraft
accusations, but those laws aren't widely enforced or known
about. And one of the very important
things is that change needs to come from communities, locally
and through community members, raising awareness with each
(15:59):
other, having these difficult conversations that need to be
had about witchcraft beliefs. And are there other explanations
for what happens when bad thingshappen?
And for the communities where there is legislation in place to
(16:21):
protect victims, educating them on what their course of action
can be or what their rights would be for seeking justice and
protection. Yes.
So it's very important that advocates work with the local
community and with local politicians and religious
(16:42):
leaders and the police force andeveryone.
Number of accusations arise because of insufficient
healthcare treatment and insufficient understanding of
healthcare. So this is something that we
talked about at this Health and healing conference was the need
(17:04):
to provide healthcare in underserved areas so people
don't rely on unlicensed diviners who will then identify
witches and well, traditional healers provide a very valuable
(17:25):
service in the communities that they serve.
They're often the only people with any sort of a medical
background, but they need to be trained on certain fundamental
disease diagnosis to understand basic conditions and know when
(17:48):
to refer somebody to another doctor instead of at the end you
get to the point of, well, it's not this, it's not this, it's
not this. So maybe it's witchcraft instead
of that you want to get to, It'snot this, it's not this, it's
not this, here's another doctor that you can go to or that we
(18:09):
can call into our community. Maybe they come around
periodically, but they're just, there needs to be that
healthcare, there needs to be that option for the second
opinion. Then people need to know about
basic conditions and not be afraid of them.
That also would have helped during the Salem witch trials.
(18:31):
Would It definitely helped Doctor Griggs or whichever
physician it actually was who diagnosed Betty Paris and
Abigail Williams as under an evil hand.
There's always connections. There's always connections.
Yeah. So many of these communities,
while we're on this, remote communities, especially rural
(18:53):
communities, and we see this here in America, we see this
everywhere. Real communities, just the
distances between where people are and where Healthcare is are
often put people at an extreme disadvantage and can't timely
get to see a doctor with the knowledge of the condition that
(19:17):
you have. So there just needs to be better
access to these remote communities.
There need to be more facilitiesnearby, ambulance services,
police services need improvementin a lot of remote areas because
again, the local Constabulary might be understaffed or it
(19:39):
might be a great distance that people can't travel to report an
attack. And then after the attacks or
accusations happened, there needs to be support.
There needs to be healing, therapy, counseling, everything
that a person who survived such an ordeal and is so traumatized
(20:03):
by it both physically and emotionally, everything that
they need to be supported later in their lives instead of just
sending them off to witch camp. Supposedly, so-called witch
camps or other refuge centers allowed these individuals to re
(20:27):
establish some kind of life. In their new community,
understandably, in many situations, they can't go back
to their old community, at leastnot very quickly because the
danger is still there that they're going to be re accused
and re attacked. But all the things that we take
it for granted in life, these individuals are being denied
(20:52):
because of they're being run outof their towns.
They're being forced onto the road, they're being forced to be
jobless, homeless, and so they need support so they can get
back to sustaining themselves and finding value in themselves.
(21:15):
That was all conference number one and we were getting ready to
go to a 2 day conference in Lancaster that was all about the
current state of this effort. Yes, the Lancaster Conference
began a week after the York Conference and was hosted by
(21:38):
Lancaster University and the International Network Against
Accusations of Witchcraft and Associated Harmful Practices,
and it was an honor to be invited to be a part of it.
That those first moments walkingup to the building, there's a
(21:58):
gathering of attendees. Some of us recognize each other
or familiar with some of the work.
There was so much excitement to be standing there together and
know we're going to walk in and tackle the situation together.
Yes, this conference, the theme was about implementing UN Human
(22:25):
Rights Council Resolution 47 eight, which was passed in 2021,
and finding ways to come together and compare notes and
exchange ideas on how to eliminate these harmful
practices that we've been talking about.
(22:46):
This was the type of conference where you had to, you wanted to
get to every speaker. You wanted to find out what is
this research or what is this experience or what is this
program that is getting rolled out.
It was a robust gathering of information and people.
(23:08):
It was so robust. There were presentations
occurring in two rooms simultaneously, so it's
impossible to be able to take ineverything individually.
But Sarah and I, being two of us, were able to split up and
each of us attend every event and every presentation that
(23:32):
happened. And there were just so many
great talks. It's impossible to cover them
all in this episode. But we met people from
Australia, Papua New Guinea, Tanzania, Zimbabwe, Sierra
Leone, Kenya, Nigeria, India, somany places around the world.
(23:58):
England, of course, England was well represented.
During the conference, we were able to meet with our colleague
and friend, Doctor Leo Igue, who've you've heard on this
podcast a couple times talking about his experiences working
against witch hunting in Africa.And he received the inaugural
(24:23):
award from the International Network against Accusations of
Witchcraft and Associated Harmful Practices.
He was recognized QUOTE for his indefatigable work in advocating
on behalf of alleged witches at both the global and the regional
level, and in so doing, advancing the implementation of
the Human Rights Council resolution on the elimination of
(24:46):
harmful practices related to accusations of witchcraft and
ritual attacks in QUOTE. Definitely a well deserved
award. Yes, he was so humbled by it.
So the honor was a complete surprise.
And he just wants to save lives.And he gets up every day to do
(25:11):
that. The conversations he has with
colleagues or community leaders or accusers or victims, it's all
to save lives and to get others to spring to action as well.
And that's why he got the award,because that is what he does.
(25:31):
Non-stop. Indefatigably, as the award
says, he's dedicated to this cause and just saving lives and
also helping people once they'vebeen affected by these
accusations. He works with a lot of the
survivors, helping them get restarted.
(25:55):
What Leo does requires a certainamount of courage as well.
He's putting himself in some vulnerable positions when he's
interfacing with an angry mob, for example, or even the police
who don't understand what his organization advocacy for
(26:17):
alleged witches is really about and think, oh, these are witches
meeting and we need to break this up.
So Leo's very brave. He's very dedicated, committed,
very passionate about what he does, and everybody loves him.
We attended great talks in the morning and then it was our turn
(26:40):
to come up and give a presentation on spiritual and
ritual abuse of how it affects children in the United States of
America. That's our newest project, and
this is a data collection project.
So right now, the project is selecting specific cases of
(27:04):
spiritual and ritual abuse that have occurred in the United
States. Yes, we talked about the
project. We talked about our objectives
and the challenges that we face and went over our methodology,
which right now where the project is where searching the
(27:26):
Internet for these cases. And then once we identify a case
of spiritual and ritual abuse, particularly one that's related
to an accusation of witchcraft or spirit possession, we look
into those more deeply, find outthe jurisdiction handling the
(27:47):
case, and see what other recordswe can dig up on it.
Yeah, everything that we are collecting is tied to criminal
charges or a criminal death, something that is heading to
court. Yeah.
(28:07):
Our main goal with the project is to use this data to raise
awareness that there is a problem out there, that these
aren't one off isolated cases. There are beliefs that are
behind behind these cases that link them together.
(28:30):
So we're looking just to collectthe data and we talked about a
few of the cases at the conference.
We talked about what spiritual abuse is on our World Day
Against Witch Hunt episode. We do, and we talk about it in
our episode with Jordan Alexander.
(28:51):
So go back and watch that one ifyou haven't already.
That's a great episode. And you've also heard several
minutes with Mary that have toldstories of some of these
victims. This talk at Lancaster focused
on children, but our research that we're doing is not limited
(29:15):
to any age group or any other group of people, either as
perpetrators or as the victims. Narrowing this down yet, we're
just trying to collect as much data as possible so that we can
present it to the media, to government agencies to say, hey,
(29:36):
let's get something, go in to try and fix this.
And then after lunch, we had another talk.
We talked about mostly the Connecticut Witch Trial
Exoneration Project, but exoneration in general has an
opportunity to raise awareness of the ongoing problem with
(29:58):
harmful practices related to accusations, witchcraft, and
ritual attacks. Yeah.
And then what was really impactful to me, when we're at a
conference like this, gathered with advocates in the regions
that are seeing witch hunting happening, we don't have to
(30:21):
describe or explain in any way the significance of exonerating
the historically accused witches.
They tell us how significant it is.
Yes, it was wonderful to be there with Leo Egway in the room
(30:42):
when we were getting this presentation and we were able to
tell the story of how he came toConnecticut and spoke at the
state Capitol to legislators. And the next week our
exoneration legislation passed the Senate 33 to one.
The week after, Leo gave that important talk and spoke with
(31:04):
Doctor Senator Savat Anwar and Representative Jane Garabed
about how meaningful this is in other parts of the world.
But the parts of the resolution that are historical, the naming
of every known accused, which inConnecticut is in the
(31:28):
legislation, and an apology fromthe state.
Yeah, those are both the first of their kind, first bill to
name those who were indicted butnot convicted, and the first of
its kind in America to apologizefor witch trial.
(31:48):
So it's very historic. We also got to talk about plans
for a Connecticut memorial and aday of remembrance and
exonerations in other states. Yeah.
What's so great about this project is it's not just Josh
and I and Mary, it's many of us.Our very first episode of this
(32:11):
podcast, our guests were Beth Crusoe and Tony Grigio.
They are long time advocates forthe Connecticut witch trials.
We did join up with them, but ittook many volunteers local and
nationally and internationally, as we mentioned, Leo getting to
(32:32):
talk at the Capitol. But this remembrance, these
remembrance efforts, there's still a large group of people
coming together to work on this.So it's a great project and you
are welcome to join us. Yes, please do.
Absolutely. Dozens and dozens of people were
involved in the Connecticut effort and are involved in
(32:55):
ongoing remembrance efforts. It was also during this panel
that we were a part of this series of three presentations.
We were able to meet previous guests Alice Markham Cantor who
presented about her ancestor Martha Carrier who was convicted
(33:15):
in the Salem Witch Trials, and we also met Charlotte Meredith
of the Justice for Witches campaign in the UK.
The four of us really enjoyed speaking about pardons and
exoneration and the experiences that we have and our ancestry.
And also that first day of the conference, there was a keynote
(33:39):
by Muluka and Mitty Drummond, who is the current independent
expert on the rights of persons with albinism for the United
Nations. And she gave a wonderful talk
about how to go forward, how to implement the resolution. 47 A.
And you may be wondering why theindependent expert on the rights
(34:02):
of persons with albinism with speaking at a witchcraft and
human rights conference. And it's because many people
around the world believe that persons with albinism have
special magical properties in their bodies and collect body
parts from persons with albinismfor use in magical potions to
(34:28):
bring luck or better health or prosperity.
Whatever the case may be, they're used in these magical
concoctions. Which means children with
albinism and others are targets.Yes, they're body parts are
typically harvested while they're alive to increase the
(34:50):
potency. These are attacks that people
are surviving, but not always sothe parts are taken while
they're alive and many don't survive.
At the conference there was talkabout how many children with
albinism are sent to boarding schools specifically for persons
(35:12):
with albinism so that they're safer then if they have to walk
to a local school where their predictable route to that school
makes them especially vulnerableto an ambush style attack and
people taking. And I I learned at the
(35:33):
conference that is believed at times that persons with albinism
don't have a regular death, thatthey just disappear.
And because of that belief, whensome are taken and disappear and
have disappeared, there isn't aninvestigation looking for that
person because it's accepted that they just vanished.
(35:54):
And persons with albinism are also believed to variously bring
you bad luck or good luck depending on the nature of your
interaction with them and where exactly you are with the local
belief is exactly. Shaking a hand with a person
with albinism might be considered good luck in one
(36:16):
place while walking by then in another place you might feel
like you have to spit on yourself or on the ground to
purge yourself of whatever taintthere is.
It's very terrible. And this is in any culture, in
(36:38):
any family, there are persons with albinism in every place
needing our protection and understanding.
Yes, all around the world, everycontinent, there are persons
living with albinism, and every person deserves dignity and the
right to enjoy a life with the fullest possible health and
(37:04):
well-being that there can be. I really enjoyed getting to
speak with Maluca and seeing herand listening to all the
conversations that she was having with the various
advocates about all the different complex needs and the
(37:25):
crisis is that are being faced in different communities.
She was very tuned in and engaging.
Yeah, definitely learned a lot from her and the there was a
lively question and answer session at the end of that and
(37:47):
you just continued to learn more.
Everybody was so eager to talk about how do we implement this
resolution. That night we had a very special
event that we got to attend. Yeah, we went to an art gallery.
And Josh had award-winning photos that were a part of a
(38:10):
international photo exhibit. Yay, that's right.
Three of my photos were privileged to be part of this
terrific exhibit, Witch Hunts inthe 21st Century.
A human rights catastrophe is traveling the world.
(38:30):
It'll be in Lancaster, England, for a few more weeks and then
it's traveling to different countries around the world so
people can interact with it and learn about the crisis that's
going on right now. If your university has an art
gallery that would like to participate in a social justice
(38:55):
photo exhibit, please reach out.What were your photos?
Oh yes, what? The first photo was of the Alice
Young Memorial brick in Windsor,CT.
It's a brick dedicated to the first New England, first
(39:18):
American colonies, hanging victim of a witch trial.
And that is Alice Young. It's a picture of her brick with
some roses we had laid during a memorial that we held on May
26th, 2023, the day after the legislation passed the Senate
(39:41):
and the 376th anniversary of Alice Young's execution.
So that that was the first one. Then there's a picture of Samuel
Paris's sermon book. You may remember him as the
minister. Of the Salem Village Church
(40:02):
involved in the Salem Witch Trials and the picture is open.
The sermon book is open to his sermon he gave on Christ knows
how many double S there are in his church.
Which was the sermon that Sarah Klois allegedly stormed out of
(40:23):
because she was basically talking about her sister Rebecca
Nurse, which is Sarah's ancestor.
Did you go to Salem to get a look at that notebook?
No, actually, it's in Connecticut at the former
Connecticut Historical Society, now the Connecticut Museum of
Culture and History. So yeah, there's that picture.
(40:45):
And the third picture is of Leo Igue paying tribute by laying
flowers at the Proctor's Ledge Memorial in Salem, which is at
the site where the hangings werebelieved to have taken place for
those convicted under the Salem witch Trials.
(41:06):
And seeing Bo at that photo, looking at it was very meta
experience. It was just interesting.
I got a picture of him looking at a picture of himself.
The other photos that are part of this exhibit are very moving.
(41:26):
You are looking at the faces of communities where they have seen
persecution against women and children and sometimes men or
witchcraft accusations. It's very touching.
It is. You'll learn a lot about what's
going on in the crisis by looking at reading the the
(41:48):
captions in the booklet that goes accompanies the exhibit.
And then after the art exhibit, we had a lovely dinner with the
other attendees. It was great just sitting at a
table. I would have been really
thrilled to have been at any of the tables in that room.
(42:12):
The only downside is you can only talk to so many people at a
dinner, but we had just just such wonderful conversation.
Yeah, there were attendees from Papua New Guinea at our table
from England, so it was wonderful conversation.
Yeah, it was great chatting and then at the end of the dinner
(42:36):
Kirsty Brimelow KC gave a talk about the Lancashire witch
trials. Yeah, and it was a great talk.
I really enjoy when this type ofgathering is happening.
There's just this constant recognition of past matching
present, and that even came through in her talk about the
(43:00):
victims of the Pendle witch trials and how that history even
sometimes overshadows the court today.
And I want to say about the barrister here, she I'm skipping
ahead to Day 2 for a minute. I hope you'll forgive me,
listener, but she gave another talk about talking about the
(43:25):
history of a resolution against female genital mutilation and
how that was implemented and what we can learn from the
implementation of that resolution.
For to apply to the resolution to eliminate these harmful
practices related to accusationsof witchcraft and ritual attacks
(43:50):
and dessert was yummy. I think I had cheesecake.
I am not really remembering. I just it was really good.
There was coffee served and I made sure everybody got a second
cup. Who wanted a second cup?
Yes, and there was salmon, whichI remember because I ate salmon
(44:12):
like four days that week. We really enjoyed getting to try
food in England and there were yummy roasted vegetables so
often and this dinner had them also.
It was great. It really was.
Kudos to the chef and team that pulled that off.
(44:33):
Day 2 we rode a double Decker bus most of the way to the
university. Yeah, it was impossible to get a
ride share in the morning and wasn't sure about how to go
about getting a taxi in the city.
So we ended up just riding the bus out to the university and
(44:55):
taking a little walk across the campus, which was the other
thing that I enjoyed eating the food.
I enjoyed talking to the people and just being out.
But I really enjoyed the weatherwhile we were there and again,
this might be we are going to doan episode specifically about
(45:16):
our tourism that we did, but I want to say England sunny mild
temperatures in the 60s to 70s Fahrenheit while we were there
for highs is very comfortable. You could just walk around, no
jacket usually and. No umbrella.
(45:36):
Be fine. Yeah.
And we only had to use umbrellasone day that we were there 1
morning and it rained. It did in the afternoon.
Yeah. Yeah.
It was just a lovely time in England.
Day 2 We did not have a presentation, so we got to just
settle in our conference seats and really soak in the
(45:58):
presentations and talking. Speaking of settling in and
having conversations, I was privileged enough to get to chat
frequently with Nigel Thompson during this conference.
The first day I enjoyed talking to him about podcasting.
The second day we were talking more about what we learned the
(46:22):
first day at the art gallery. He and his team were there
recording the conference and interviewing guests.
Nigel Very pleasant gentlemen. Tooth sock 2 so.
There's just something that happens when podcasters find
each other. There's just an acknowledgement
(46:44):
of craft that you have with eachother and you can talk all day
about it. At Day 2, we had more great
conversations with the attendees.
It was amazing that many of themknow the podcast and knew of us
before we met them. Yeah, it was such a warm
(47:07):
welcome, and getting to plan upcoming episodes in person with
experts that you're chatting with right there is so great.
It's really beats sending an e-mail.
Yeah, and it was so great. Day 2, we were free, as Sarah
said, just to appreciate all theother talks that were going on
(47:31):
and we learned so much. 1 great thing about it is we're going to
be interviewing a number of these individuals who spoke at
the conference, and so you'll get to hear what they talked
about as well. Our friend Doctor Deborah
Moretti came into town to hear her boss, Owen Davies, give the
(47:56):
keynote. They're working on a project
together and the keynote that Professor Davies gave was so
great about linking historic witchcraft persecution to modern
witchcraft persecution. It was so great meeting him.
Owen Davies keynote was going tobe one of my highlights and it
(48:20):
was I was really excited that I was going to get to hear him
speak in person. Having him as a guest on our
podcast was a really big deal tome.
Last year I hadn't even heard him speak, but I spied him
sitting in a seat on that first day and I was like, I thought,
what if this is my only opportunity to say hi?
(48:40):
It was the beginning of the day so I'm like, I have to go over
and say hi to Doctor Davies, buta little bit later I go in to
get a fresh cup of coffee and mycolleague is deep in
conversation with Doctor Davies.That's right, yeah.
Professor Davies is very interested in what goes on in
(49:03):
America. He wrote a book which is behind
Sarah America Bewitched, which talks about witchcraft
persecutions in the United States after the Salem witch
trials. And he talks about how more
people were killed because of witchcraft accusations after the
(49:24):
Salem witch trials than during. And so it's just lovely catching
up with them, chatting with them.
It's been at least a year since we talked to him about his book
on the art of the grimoire, and so great to catch up and we
ought to talk to him more duringthe conference as well and his
(49:48):
keynote. One of the points that stuck out
to me, I think it was it was basically his main point, was
that if you look at your 19th and 20th century persecutions,
extrajudicial action against people accused of witchcraft all
(50:09):
around the world, in Europe, England, the United States, all
over, if you look at those 19th and 20th century events, that's
where you can really see the closest similarities to what's
happening in the modern world. You talked about the close links
(50:30):
between those types of events. And it happens to be one of the
spaces of time that we haven't had the opportunity to share a
lot of stories. Yeah, we're really looking
forward to talking about that. But it's there's not really a
name for that period of witchcraft accusation.
(50:52):
I know Sarah did ask Professor Davies when he was on the show
last year about what do we call that time period, but that's the
time period that I'm most keen on getting into because we
haven't really peeled that layerback of what was happening 18th,
19th and 20th century with thosepost Salem witchcraft
(51:16):
accusations in the Western world.
Not only has there been academicliterature published on it, but
there is newspaper archives, there's articles, it's in the
papers. Yeah, if you go to
newspapers.com and just type in things like witch killing, which
(51:39):
killed, which murdered. Neighbor.
Surprising, yeah. Witchcraft accusation.
You find a surprising amount of things from even your own area.
No matter where you are in the world, these things have been
going on. Yeah.
(52:00):
So yeah, that was really good keynote.
And after all the talks were done, a round table was formed.
We got to sit down. Almost all the attendees just
sat around tables together and the keynote speakers and some
(52:23):
other members of the international network spoke out
about what needs to be done to implement the resolution.
And we got to hear from Professor Davies again.
We got to hear from Meluka and MIDI German again.
Leo. Leo Egway Phillip Gibbs spoke.
(52:44):
Friend Samantha Spence spoke. Miranda Forsythe spoke.
Charlotte Baker spoke. Want to give a shout out to the
crew that put on the conference,which was Charlotte Baker,
Miranda Forsythe, Samantha Spence, Alice Markham Canner,
Lethian Barthole took many handsto make that thing run the way
(53:06):
that and we learned so many things during those two days.
We've already talked about the commonalities between historical
witch hunts and contemporary harmful practices.
They're expensive. They are extensive and what I'd
(53:26):
like to point out and talking again about Professor Davies
book America Dewitched. Really, witchcraft accusations
didn't end when the European witch trials ended.
They continued on but went underground and extra legal.
(53:47):
That's why today, everyday people are experiencing violence
from witch hunts. People often look back at
historic witch hunts and say well that ended 304 hundred
years ago and depending where you are exactly and they say
(54:08):
well let's just not do that again.
But we see everyday occurrences of witch hunting of various
forms and especially the literalbrutal harmful practices are
still going on. And we're going to tackle this
by everyone working together. That was another big point that
(54:31):
was raised by Meluka and Betty Drummond and many of the other
speakers at the conference. Implementation of a resolution
of this nature, given the scope of this problem, it's really
going to take everybody from every background working
together. So researchers, academics,
(54:54):
advocates, activists, the media.You need faith-based communities
to get involved, you need non faith-based NGOs to get
involved. You need people who are in the
countries that are most effective and are part of those
(55:15):
nations and cultures. And you also need people in
other locations supporting them.So it really is going to take
all hands on deck. And there are plenty of ways
that you can get involved that Ithink we'll talk about shortly.
(55:36):
Yeah. One thing that came through the
keynotes but and also many of the other sessions is the need
for more and more data to be collected around the world about
the scope and scale of the problem and more data to both
(56:00):
quantify the issue but also qualify what is actually
happening around the world on the ground when these things
take place. Yeah.
And it's really about collectingit because there is information.
This tragedy can be substantiated with records and
(56:23):
the numbers of those are experiencing gender based
violence there. There's lots of places that
there is data, but it needs to be organized.
There's no government agencies going around our country or any
country gathering data on harmful practices related to
(56:45):
witchcraft accusations or ritualattacks.
There's no central repository where you can go and say, oh,
here's all the data. But people at the conference did
talk about need to make it to have a centralized database also
where all this data can reside and different researchers can
(57:07):
access it and study the situation.
But we need this data to be ableto make the case to the nations
of the world that they should take steps to do what's said in
Resolution 47, eight for them todo, which we'll actually cover
(57:28):
shortly. I wanted to say something about
So what is AUN resolution? But say you don't really have to
worry about that part. You need to pay attention to the
values that it is representing, which are things that are
important not to everybody though, but that are important
(57:49):
to those that care about safeguarding children and other
vulnerable people. And some of those values are
equality, non discrimination, human dignity, child safety,
elder care, women's rights, freedom of thought, conscience
and religion. And to quote the resolution,
(58:11):
everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person,
and that no one shall be subjected to torture or to
cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.
That's right. That's a value that we should
all share. It's enshrined in constitutions
around the world, those rights to life, liberty and security of
(58:35):
person, freedom from cruel and unusual punishment right there
in the US Constitution and otherconstitutions, and also in the
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which was signed 76
(58:56):
years ago. Now.
We're not going to read to you aportion of Resolution 47 eight.
The entire resolution contains 2pages of WHEREAS clauses,
basically where it's stating, laying the groundwork, stating
all the different international covenants and treaties that have
(59:18):
been adopted that apply to this situation, that say that you
need to follow these rules. So we're going to read the
recommendations that the Human Rights Council has for its
member for UN member states, thethings that states should be
(59:39):
doing to eliminate harmful practices.
Here we go. The Humans Rights Council urges
states to condemn harmful practices related to accusations
of witchcraft and ritual attacksthat result in human rights
violations. Also urges states to take all
measures necessary to ensure theelimination of harmful practices
(01:00:01):
amounting to human rights violations related to
accusations of witchcraft and ritual attacks, and to ensure
accountability and the effect ofprotection of all persons,
particularly persons and vulnerable situations.
Calls upon States to ensure thatno one within their jurisdiction
is deprived of the right to life, liberty or security of
(01:00:24):
person because of religion or belief, and that no one is
subjected to torture or other cruel, inhuman or degrading
treatment or punishment or arbitrary arrest or detention on
that account, and to bring justice to all perpetrators of
violations and abuses of these rights in compliance with
applicable and international law.
(01:00:46):
Invite States, in collaboration with relevant regional and
international organizations, to promote bilateral, regional and
international initiatives to support the protection of all
persons vulnerable to harmful practices amounting to human
rights violations related to accusations of witchcraft and
ritual attacks, while noting that in providing protection,
(01:01:08):
attention to local context is critical.
Also invite States to draw attention to this issue in the
context of the Universal Periodic Review.
Emphasizes that states should carefully distinguish between
harmful practices amounting to human rights violations related
to accusations of witchcraft andritual attacks, and the lawful
(01:01:29):
and legitimate exercise of different kinds of religion or
beliefs in order to preserve theright to freely manifest a
religion or a belief individually or in a community
with others, including for persons belonging to religious
minorities. Encourages human rights
mechanisms, including relevant special procedures of the Human
Rights Council and treaty bodies, to compile and share
(01:01:52):
information on harmful practicesrelated to accusations of
witchcraft and ritual attacks and their impact on the
enjoyment of human rights. Request the United Nations High
Commissioner for Human Rights toorganize an expert consultation
with States and other relevant stakeholders, including the
United Nations Secretariat and relevant bodies, representatives
(01:02:13):
of sub regional and regional organizations, international
human rights mechanisms, national human rights
institutions and non governmental organizations.
The results of which will help the Office of the High
Commissioner to prepare a study on the situation of the
violations and abuses of human rights rooted in harmful
practices related to accusationsof witchcraft and ritual
(01:02:33):
attacks, as well as stigmatization, and to inform
further action by existing mechanisms at the United Nations
and to submit a report there on to the Human Rights Council at
its 52nd session. And that resolution was adopted
by the Human Rights Council on July 12th, 2021.
And since then there's been somemore activity in implementing
(01:02:55):
it. One thing that has been a major
development is the Pan African Parliament developed guidelines
for its member nations to develop their own national
action plans to ensure coordinated response to harmful
practices occurring in accusations of witchcraft and
(01:03:18):
ritual attacks. So how is the report distinct
from the resolution? The report goes in more detail
about the nature of the crisis. The resolution doesn't really
establish the nature of the crisis in terms of magnitude or
(01:03:39):
how it impacts specific communities, which the report
breaks down the impacts to various to children, to women
and girls, to elders. It breaks down all those things,
what actual human rights violations are being committed.
As well, it gives some specific recommendations that are for the
(01:04:06):
implementation by the Member States and other stakeholders.
So we're going to read a sectionfrom this report.
It was given in 2023. We had mentioned it in the
resolution. One of the steps is for this
report to be created and it was done in February 2023.
(01:04:31):
We'll read the recommendations section, recalling
recommendations made by human rights treaty bodies, the
Universal Periodic Review and Special Procedure mandate
holders. The Office of the High
Commissioner of Human Rights recommends that States undertake
the following actions. Develop and implement
(01:04:52):
comprehensive frameworks at national and local levels,
focusing on the prevention of human rights violations and
abuses rooted in harmful practices related to accusations
of and associations with witchcraft and ritual attacks,
as well as stigmatization, with a view to ensuring the
effectiveness and sustainabilityof such efforts.
Further research should be conducted on the design and
(01:05:14):
implementation of policy and legal measures, including
lessons learned from responses to hate crimes, prevention
efforts, protective measures, and responsive services.
Address and promptly investigatehuman rights violations and
abuses rooted in harmful practices related to accusations
of witchcraft and ritual attacks.
Prosecute inadequately punish the perpetrators of such attacks
(01:05:37):
and in that regard, enhance the capacities of relevant
stakeholders, including police officers, prosecutors and
judges. Collect and publish information,
including updated disaggregated data, exploring the behavioral
barriers that prevent law enforcement officers from
fulfilling their obligations to promptly investigate harmful
practices related to accusationsof witchcraft and ritual
(01:06:00):
attacks, and identify strategic entry points for pilot
interventions. Review an update relevant asylum
policy guidance, including country guidance notes, to
include all countries that have increased vulnerability to
harmful practices related to accusations of witchcraft, as
well as associations with witchcraft and ritual attacks
(01:06:20):
that potentially threaten the life and safety of persons in
vulnerable situations, pushing them to flee their countries and
seek asylum. Ensure that national
authorities, as well as all human rights mechanisms,
effectively address both human rights violations and abuses
rooted in harmful practices related to accusations of
witchcraft and to association with witchcraft.
(01:06:43):
Conduct further research on prevention and responses,
including an assessment of the risks related to a variety of
settings, including conflict, inter communal hostility,
political and economic instability, elections, natural
disasters, environmental degradation, and public health
crises. Ensure that authorities
(01:07:03):
identify, document, disseminate promising practices of combating
human rights violations and abuses rooted in harmful
practices related to accusationsof witchcraft and ritual
attacks. And organize systematic
awareness raising campaigns targeting both men and women, as
well as community and village chiefs and religious leaders,
(01:07:24):
particularly in rural areas, with a view to tackling the root
causes of harmful practices related to accusations of
witchcraft and ritual attacks aswell as stigmatization.
Many more details on the implementation ideas that people
have on how to put together national action plans is
(01:07:45):
available in additional episodesand go back to this in many
upcoming episodes to give more detail on what still needs to be
done. But what I talked about when I
was talking about the Our York presentation on ending witch
hunts, the holistic approach is basically what's needed to go
(01:08:08):
forward. You need an all in strategy
encompassing all aspects of lifeand society.
We have many guests that you aregoing to hear soon that
presented at this conference. Yes, many coming up and many
that you've heard in the past orcan go back and check out.
(01:08:32):
So check our show notes for links to past episodes with
these great guests who spoke at the conferences, and subscribe
to our newsletter for information on our upcoming
guests. We thank everyone who supported
(01:08:52):
this trip and who have shared information and who use their
voice, platform and community toadvocate.
Yes, thank everybody that we metat the conferences as well as,
like Sarah said, everyone who generously contributed to our
(01:09:13):
travel expenses. We really appreciate you
allowing us to do this. We think it's very important for
the movement this conference. And Witch Hunt has recorded 99
cases related to spiritual and ritual abuse in the United
States. Contributing factors known in
some of these cases from the court documents of those who
(01:09:36):
committed the crimes are extremereligious views, government
conspiracy theories, superstition, mental illness,
and drugs. Most of these factors were
present in the sad case of 13 month old Amora Bain Carson,
whose life ended on December 2nd, 2008 at the hands of Blaine
(01:09:56):
Milam and her mother Jessica Carson.
Court documents tell us that Blaine had a fourth grade
education and a history with drugs.
Jessica became withdrawn and possibly suffered from psychotic
depression after she began to date Blaine and was under his
watchful eye 24/7. The pair used the Ouija board to
(01:10:18):
contact their deceased fathers and believe the spirit was
released and entered Amora. Blaine later performed the
exorcism while Jessica waited inthe next room.
Blaine was found guilty in 2010 and sentenced to death.
However, Blaine filed an appeal stating he can't be executed due
(01:10:39):
to an intellectual disability. Though these factors should be
noted in our research, it is most important for us to
remember the innocent lives thatwere lost.
Rest in peace, Amora, Baine, Carson, and all of those who
will be remembered in future segments of Minute with Mary.
Thank you. And thank you for joining us for
(01:11:01):
this episode. Have a great day and a beautiful
tomorrow. Yay, she said it.
Welcome to Witch Hunt, the podcast where for the last two
years we've been talking to you about witch trial history and
contemporary witch hunts known as harmful practices.
I'm Josh Hutchinson. And I'm Sarah Jack.
In fact, this week is our 2nd anniversary as a podcast, and
(00:20):
this is the episode where we're going to talk about the
conference's we were able to attend in England in September.
That's right, we've come a long way since our first episode
about Connecticut witch trial history.
Now we've become advocates in this sphere, working with others
to raise awareness and bring an end to harmful practices related
(00:42):
to accusations of witchcraft, where basically people accuse
someone of bewitching them or their family or their
possessions, and then attack them.
On this trip we were able to meet for the first time at least
eleven of our incredible guests who we have featured on previous
(01:05):
episodes. We got to talk to them in person
and it was amazing. It really was.
There's something very differentabout meeting somebody in person
versus just talking to them overZoom and emails.
For those of you who podcast or guest, there is an affinity in
(01:26):
the podcasting community. You feel like friends when you
meet someone who has podcasting experience or it's their hobby
or their profession, and meetingour guest was much like that.
Was amazing. It was so great to meet people
from all around the world, many different nations on most of the
(01:47):
continents, and just being in one place with all these
brilliant minds, these great thinkers, was quite a treat.
Let's tell our listeners about how we met our guests.
Let's do that. We started with a conference at
the University of York, the Magic and Witchcraft Conference,
(02:07):
sponsored by the Center for Renaissance and Early Modern
Studies, and it was quite brilliant.
The theme was healing and healthfrom antiquity to 1850.
But right from the start of our getting into York, we had such a
great experience in that city. We came in on a train, we hopped
(02:31):
into a taxi and our accommodations were
contemporary. But when you walk out the door
and you hit the cobblestone, it was like walking back in time on
our way to the university. We got to pass through the
fabulous Rd. called The Shambles, which has.
(02:54):
The Shambles Market used to be the road where they laid out all
the meats, the butchers laid outall their finest cuts of meat,
and today it's still a busy shopping and tourist hub and an
active outdoor market. Well, we passed through the
Shambles, which is medieval Street, so the buildings are
(03:17):
authentic going back centuries. It's quite different coming from
the United States, especially the western United States where
our oldest buildings that we have are from the mid 20th
century in most of our towns. To go to a place that has 2000
(03:40):
years of history that York has since Roman times, it was quite
remarkable. One of the big attractions there
is York Minster, which is a verylarge cathedral and very
impressive looking Gothic structure with all of those
pointy things and the gargoyles and the whole bit.
(04:04):
Yeah. And we also were able to pass
through the old city gates in the ancient city wall that again
dates back. The original walls go back to
Roman times, but were improved upon many times over the
centuries. So what's there today is mostly
(04:24):
Norman I believe, and post Norman, but it's still very
ancient, hundreds of years old. Some of the positions there, the
actual structures, were first inplace in Roman times, back in
the early first Millennium. Passing all of these very
(04:46):
special landmarks brought us to the University of York, where
our conference was. Yeah, we went to lovely Kings
Manor, just got to see this. Amazing.
It has this beautiful ornate Crest above the door that we'll
have to put up a picture here soyou can see what I'm talking
(05:06):
about. But.
Yeah, it's quite. Makes it seem like you're going
into the Kings Manor. It does feel that way and you'll
see the excitement on our face in this selfie that we took
right. It's it was a very lovely
experience there. Yeah, it was so fun walking up
this very short staircase to a second floor and walking into a
(05:32):
classroom, knowing that our friends were going to be in
there prepping for their own presentations.
And it was great. We stood around and greeted each
other and drink some coffee and the conference started.
We got to meet in person DeborahMoretti, Tabitha Stanmore,
(05:54):
Javier Garcia Oliva, and Helen Hall.
You'll recognize those four as previous guests that have been
on this podcast. And we were in a room with all
of them and got to listen to their talks and they got to
listen to us. And it was just a remarkable
experience. And we also met future guests.
(06:17):
Yeah, it was a great conference.There was an online audience as
well as in person attendees and it was a great day.
It flew by so quickly. It was some fun learning about
healing and healers, different magical practices and beliefs
about healing over time especially.
(06:40):
We learned literally like it says from antiquity to 1850,
covered the whole time period inbetween and was amazing.
And then we got to talk. In our presentation at this
first conference, we talked about the beginnings of and
(07:01):
witch hunts, the Connecticut Witch Trial Exoneration Project,
and our podcast. We also got to talk about our
other projects going on in Massachusetts and Connecticut
and the wonderful project happening in the state of
Maryland. So we got to talk about what's
(07:22):
going on in America as far as remembering past victims from
historical trials. And we got to speak about our
involvement and especially Mary Bingham's involvement in the
bold project Building Opportunities for Lives and
Dignities, which is running in the Jharkhand state in India,
(07:45):
which is bringing a holistic solution to ending harmful
practices related to accusationsof witchcraft and also
supporting these survivors of these accusations.
And we're looking forward to future episodes where we talk
(08:06):
about that project much more. Yes, one of the things that I
enjoyed about this conference, listening to the academic
research and then when we had our opportunity to present,
having things come to mind that I'd heard that day in somebody's
(08:27):
paper that matches what's happening right now in
communities in different countries.
It just really was like this. When we're in an episode and we
hear when our conversation, oh, this really matches something we
learned in a previous episode. But then when you like go to a
conference and the subject matter is just enveloping
(08:52):
everything that's still happening and you just see the
continuance there's, it wasn't hard to point out.
Well, let me tell you, these things are still happening.
It was unfortunately so easy because it there were all these
examples and just for listening to it.
So we were just really able to discuss how what they are
(09:17):
researching and how important itis to understanding even the
modern framework of some hunts that are still happening.
Yeah, learning about traditionalhealers of the past and cunning
folk, those sorts of professionsthat occurred in the medieval
(09:40):
period, the early modern period,and learning that you're
realizing that those professionsare still around today and still
involved in witchcraft accusations as they had been
previously. Both occasionally being accused
but not so often themselves, butbeing used in counter magic and
(10:07):
for the detection of witches. When we started this podcast two
years ago, there were conversations happening on
university campuses, in Historical Society meetings, at
local libraries, and in books and blogs.
But over the last two years, this podcast has really made a
(10:29):
space for the conversations. And it just, I really felt that.
The podcast has helped to bring together this network of
academics and advocates who talkin this space, and being at a
(10:49):
conference, which was another form where networking is able to
happen, was very what's insightful, getting chunks of
everybody's mind. In our talk, in addition to
talking about healing and medicinal associations with
(11:10):
witchcraft accusations in the contemporary world, we also
talked about methods to potentially eliminate those
harmful practices from happeningin the 1st place.
And So what we talked about was the need for a holistic approach
(11:30):
with a focus on the conditions that allow witch hunts to occur
so that you can cut them off at the source.
Instead of treating the symptomsof the problem, treat the root
cause, pull it out by those roots and toss it.
And that includes addressing economic conditions and creating
(11:54):
social safety Nets for communities.
Often accusations are happening to families that are
experiencing life changing misfortune that is
unexplainable. And so when you address the
infrastructure. Addressing those underlying
(12:15):
economic conditions that lead tothe great poverty, which is a
big factor in witch hunting, It's one of the sort of
prerequisites. You need some bad things
basically to be happening in somebody's life in order for
them to kind of resort to makinga witchcraft accusation, and you
(12:37):
need them to have no recourse. When people don't have any
recourse, there's no insurance system for crop failures,
there's no safety net to catch them if the bottom falls out
from them economically, it's very easy for that person to
want to blame something or at least seek A cause.
(13:01):
Why did this misfortune happenedto me?
What can I do about it? Where would you have these
safety Nets and insurance mechanisms then?
People are compensated when misfortune happens and they're
not down to that last straw. So these things need to be a big
(13:23):
part of it. And just addressing worldwide
economic conditions is of coursea concern anyways.
The things you just heard Josh touching on those probably sound
familiar to you if you've been listening to historical witch
trial stories, But also we're finding the same influences now.
(13:49):
If you listen to anything we've done about Salem OR Connecticut
or England, Ireland, the same underlying conditions were part
of the problem. Economic conditions, as we know
from contemporary life, are one of the key stressors in
(14:09):
anybody's life. And so economic conditions, the
fear of losing everything, the actually having that happen to
you to where you lose everythingand have no support.
Another area that needs to be addressed is climate change that
(14:29):
is actually intensifying both droughts and storms that can
kill livestock and crops and in turn the people who rely upon
those livestock and crops. And that needs to be addressed
and the economics. And you've got to tackle the
(14:52):
refugee crisis as well. I read recently there's some
millions of people in transit right now in refugee status, and
you do have a lot of people crammed into these refugee camps
and you don't know each other, that things are happening to
(15:14):
people and it just creates another climate for witchcraft
accusations. Another area of importance is to
raise awareness about the consequences of witchcraft
accusations and about laws that may be on the books.
(15:36):
In several nations, there are laws against making witchcraft
accusations, but those laws aren't widely enforced or known
about. And one of the very important
things is that change needs to come from communities, locally
and through community members, raising awareness with each
(15:59):
other, having these difficult conversations that need to be
had about witchcraft beliefs. And are there other explanations
for what happens when bad thingshappen?
And for the communities where there is legislation in place to
(16:21):
protect victims, educating them on what their course of action
can be or what their rights would be for seeking justice and
protection. Yes.
So it's very important that advocates work with the local
community and with local politicians and religious
(16:42):
leaders and the police force andeveryone.
Number of accusations arise because of insufficient
healthcare treatment and insufficient understanding of
healthcare. So this is something that we
talked about at this Health and healing conference was the need
(17:04):
to provide healthcare in underserved areas so people
don't rely on unlicensed diviners who will then identify
witches and well, traditional healers provide a very valuable
(17:25):
service in the communities that they serve.
They're often the only people with any sort of a medical
background, but they need to be trained on certain fundamental
disease diagnosis to understand basic conditions and know when
(17:48):
to refer somebody to another doctor instead of at the end you
get to the point of, well, it's not this, it's not this, it's
not this. So maybe it's witchcraft instead
of that you want to get to, It'snot this, it's not this, it's
not this, here's another doctor that you can go to or that we
(18:09):
can call into our community. Maybe they come around
periodically, but they're just, there needs to be that
healthcare, there needs to be that option for the second
opinion. Then people need to know about
basic conditions and not be afraid of them.
That also would have helped during the Salem witch trials.
(18:31):
Would It definitely helped Doctor Griggs or whichever
physician it actually was who diagnosed Betty Paris and
Abigail Williams as under an evil hand.
There's always connections. There's always connections.
Yeah. So many of these communities,
while we're on this, remote communities, especially rural
(18:53):
communities, and we see this here in America, we see this
everywhere. Real communities, just the
distances between where people are and where Healthcare is are
often put people at an extreme disadvantage and can't timely
get to see a doctor with the knowledge of the condition that
(19:17):
you have. So there just needs to be better
access to these remote communities.
There need to be more facilitiesnearby, ambulance services,
police services need improvementin a lot of remote areas because
again, the local Constabulary might be understaffed or it
(19:39):
might be a great distance that people can't travel to report an
attack. And then after the attacks or
accusations happened, there needs to be support.
There needs to be healing, therapy, counseling, everything
that a person who survived such an ordeal and is so traumatized
(20:03):
by it both physically and emotionally, everything that
they need to be supported later in their lives instead of just
sending them off to witch camp. Supposedly, so-called witch
camps or other refuge centers allowed these individuals to re
(20:27):
establish some kind of life. In their new community,
understandably, in many situations, they can't go back
to their old community, at leastnot very quickly because the
danger is still there that they're going to be re accused
and re attacked. But all the things that we take
it for granted in life, these individuals are being denied
(20:52):
because of they're being run outof their towns.
They're being forced onto the road, they're being forced to be
jobless, homeless, and so they need support so they can get
back to sustaining themselves and finding value in themselves.
(21:15):
That was all conference number one and we were getting ready to
go to a 2 day conference in Lancaster that was all about the
current state of this effort. Yes, the Lancaster Conference
began a week after the York Conference and was hosted by
(21:38):
Lancaster University and the International Network Against
Accusations of Witchcraft and Associated Harmful Practices,
and it was an honor to be invited to be a part of it.
That those first moments walkingup to the building, there's a
(21:58):
gathering of attendees. Some of us recognize each other
or familiar with some of the work.
There was so much excitement to be standing there together and
know we're going to walk in and tackle the situation together.
Yes, this conference, the theme was about implementing UN Human
(22:25):
Rights Council Resolution 47 eight, which was passed in 2021,
and finding ways to come together and compare notes and
exchange ideas on how to eliminate these harmful
practices that we've been talking about.
(22:46):
This was the type of conference where you had to, you wanted to
get to every speaker. You wanted to find out what is
this research or what is this experience or what is this
program that is getting rolled out.
It was a robust gathering of information and people.
(23:08):
It was so robust. There were presentations
occurring in two rooms simultaneously, so it's
impossible to be able to take ineverything individually.
But Sarah and I, being two of us, were able to split up and
each of us attend every event and every presentation that
(23:32):
happened. And there were just so many
great talks. It's impossible to cover them
all in this episode. But we met people from
Australia, Papua New Guinea, Tanzania, Zimbabwe, Sierra
Leone, Kenya, Nigeria, India, somany places around the world.
(23:58):
England, of course, England was well represented.
During the conference, we were able to meet with our colleague
and friend, Doctor Leo Igue, who've you've heard on this
podcast a couple times talking about his experiences working
against witch hunting in Africa.And he received the inaugural
(24:23):
award from the International Network against Accusations of
Witchcraft and Associated Harmful Practices.
He was recognized QUOTE for his indefatigable work in advocating
on behalf of alleged witches at both the global and the regional
level, and in so doing, advancing the implementation of
the Human Rights Council resolution on the elimination of
(24:46):
harmful practices related to accusations of witchcraft and
ritual attacks in QUOTE. Definitely a well deserved
award. Yes, he was so humbled by it.
So the honor was a complete surprise.
And he just wants to save lives.And he gets up every day to do
(25:11):
that. The conversations he has with
colleagues or community leaders or accusers or victims, it's all
to save lives and to get others to spring to action as well.
And that's why he got the award,because that is what he does.
(25:31):
Non-stop. Indefatigably, as the award
says, he's dedicated to this cause and just saving lives and
also helping people once they'vebeen affected by these
accusations. He works with a lot of the
survivors, helping them get restarted.
(25:55):
What Leo does requires a certainamount of courage as well.
He's putting himself in some vulnerable positions when he's
interfacing with an angry mob, for example, or even the police
who don't understand what his organization advocacy for
(26:17):
alleged witches is really about and think, oh, these are witches
meeting and we need to break this up.
So Leo's very brave. He's very dedicated, committed,
very passionate about what he does, and everybody loves him.
We attended great talks in the morning and then it was our turn
(26:40):
to come up and give a presentation on spiritual and
ritual abuse of how it affects children in the United States of
America. That's our newest project, and
this is a data collection project.
So right now, the project is selecting specific cases of
(27:04):
spiritual and ritual abuse that have occurred in the United
States. Yes, we talked about the
project. We talked about our objectives
and the challenges that we face and went over our methodology,
which right now where the project is where searching the
(27:26):
Internet for these cases. And then once we identify a case
of spiritual and ritual abuse, particularly one that's related
to an accusation of witchcraft or spirit possession, we look
into those more deeply, find outthe jurisdiction handling the
(27:47):
case, and see what other recordswe can dig up on it.
Yeah, everything that we are collecting is tied to criminal
charges or a criminal death, something that is heading to
court. Yeah.
(28:07):
Our main goal with the project is to use this data to raise
awareness that there is a problem out there, that these
aren't one off isolated cases. There are beliefs that are
behind behind these cases that link them together.
(28:30):
So we're looking just to collectthe data and we talked about a
few of the cases at the conference.
We talked about what spiritual abuse is on our World Day
Against Witch Hunt episode. We do, and we talk about it in
our episode with Jordan Alexander.
(28:51):
So go back and watch that one ifyou haven't already.
That's a great episode. And you've also heard several
minutes with Mary that have toldstories of some of these
victims. This talk at Lancaster focused
on children, but our research that we're doing is not limited
(29:15):
to any age group or any other group of people, either as
perpetrators or as the victims. Narrowing this down yet, we're
just trying to collect as much data as possible so that we can
present it to the media, to government agencies to say, hey,
(29:36):
let's get something, go in to try and fix this.
And then after lunch, we had another talk.
We talked about mostly the Connecticut Witch Trial
Exoneration Project, but exoneration in general has an
opportunity to raise awareness of the ongoing problem with
(29:58):
harmful practices related to accusations, witchcraft, and
ritual attacks. Yeah.
And then what was really impactful to me, when we're at a
conference like this, gathered with advocates in the regions
that are seeing witch hunting happening, we don't have to
(30:21):
describe or explain in any way the significance of exonerating
the historically accused witches.
They tell us how significant it is.
Yes, it was wonderful to be there with Leo Egway in the room
(30:42):
when we were getting this presentation and we were able to
tell the story of how he came toConnecticut and spoke at the
state Capitol to legislators. And the next week our
exoneration legislation passed the Senate 33 to one.
The week after, Leo gave that important talk and spoke with
(31:04):
Doctor Senator Savat Anwar and Representative Jane Garabed
about how meaningful this is in other parts of the world.
But the parts of the resolution that are historical, the naming
of every known accused, which inConnecticut is in the
(31:28):
legislation, and an apology fromthe state.
Yeah, those are both the first of their kind, first bill to
name those who were indicted butnot convicted, and the first of
its kind in America to apologizefor witch trial.
(31:48):
So it's very historic. We also got to talk about plans
for a Connecticut memorial and aday of remembrance and
exonerations in other states. Yeah.
What's so great about this project is it's not just Josh
and I and Mary, it's many of us.Our very first episode of this
(32:11):
podcast, our guests were Beth Crusoe and Tony Grigio.
They are long time advocates forthe Connecticut witch trials.
We did join up with them, but ittook many volunteers local and
nationally and internationally, as we mentioned, Leo getting to
(32:32):
talk at the Capitol. But this remembrance, these
remembrance efforts, there's still a large group of people
coming together to work on this.So it's a great project and you
are welcome to join us. Yes, please do.
Absolutely. Dozens and dozens of people were
involved in the Connecticut effort and are involved in
(32:55):
ongoing remembrance efforts. It was also during this panel
that we were a part of this series of three presentations.
We were able to meet previous guests Alice Markham Cantor who
presented about her ancestor Martha Carrier who was convicted
(33:15):
in the Salem Witch Trials, and we also met Charlotte Meredith
of the Justice for Witches campaign in the UK.
The four of us really enjoyed speaking about pardons and
exoneration and the experiences that we have and our ancestry.
And also that first day of the conference, there was a keynote
(33:39):
by Muluka and Mitty Drummond, who is the current independent
expert on the rights of persons with albinism for the United
Nations. And she gave a wonderful talk
about how to go forward, how to implement the resolution. 47 A.
And you may be wondering why theindependent expert on the rights
(34:02):
of persons with albinism with speaking at a witchcraft and
human rights conference. And it's because many people
around the world believe that persons with albinism have
special magical properties in their bodies and collect body
parts from persons with albinismfor use in magical potions to
(34:28):
bring luck or better health or prosperity.
Whatever the case may be, they're used in these magical
concoctions. Which means children with
albinism and others are targets.Yes, they're body parts are
typically harvested while they're alive to increase the
(34:50):
potency. These are attacks that people
are surviving, but not always sothe parts are taken while
they're alive and many don't survive.
At the conference there was talkabout how many children with
albinism are sent to boarding schools specifically for persons
(35:12):
with albinism so that they're safer then if they have to walk
to a local school where their predictable route to that school
makes them especially vulnerableto an ambush style attack and
people taking. And I I learned at the
(35:33):
conference that is believed at times that persons with albinism
don't have a regular death, thatthey just disappear.
And because of that belief, whensome are taken and disappear and
have disappeared, there isn't aninvestigation looking for that
person because it's accepted that they just vanished.
(35:54):
And persons with albinism are also believed to variously bring
you bad luck or good luck depending on the nature of your
interaction with them and where exactly you are with the local
belief is exactly. Shaking a hand with a person
with albinism might be considered good luck in one
(36:16):
place while walking by then in another place you might feel
like you have to spit on yourself or on the ground to
purge yourself of whatever taintthere is.
It's very terrible. And this is in any culture, in
(36:38):
any family, there are persons with albinism in every place
needing our protection and understanding.
Yes, all around the world, everycontinent, there are persons
living with albinism, and every person deserves dignity and the
right to enjoy a life with the fullest possible health and
(37:04):
well-being that there can be. I really enjoyed getting to
speak with Maluca and seeing herand listening to all the
conversations that she was having with the various
advocates about all the different complex needs and the
(37:25):
crisis is that are being faced in different communities.
She was very tuned in and engaging.
Yeah, definitely learned a lot from her and the there was a
lively question and answer session at the end of that and
(37:47):
you just continued to learn more.
Everybody was so eager to talk about how do we implement this
resolution. That night we had a very special
event that we got to attend. Yeah, we went to an art gallery.
And Josh had award-winning photos that were a part of a
(38:10):
international photo exhibit. Yay, that's right.
Three of my photos were privileged to be part of this
terrific exhibit, Witch Hunts inthe 21st Century.
A human rights catastrophe is traveling the world.
(38:30):
It'll be in Lancaster, England, for a few more weeks and then
it's traveling to different countries around the world so
people can interact with it and learn about the crisis that's
going on right now. If your university has an art
gallery that would like to participate in a social justice
(38:55):
photo exhibit, please reach out.What were your photos?
Oh yes, what? The first photo was of the Alice
Young Memorial brick in Windsor,CT.
It's a brick dedicated to the first New England, first
(39:18):
American colonies, hanging victim of a witch trial.
And that is Alice Young. It's a picture of her brick with
some roses we had laid during a memorial that we held on May
26th, 2023, the day after the legislation passed the Senate
(39:41):
and the 376th anniversary of Alice Young's execution.
So that that was the first one. Then there's a picture of Samuel
Paris's sermon book. You may remember him as the
minister. Of the Salem Village Church
(40:02):
involved in the Salem Witch Trials and the picture is open.
The sermon book is open to his sermon he gave on Christ knows
how many double S there are in his church.
Which was the sermon that Sarah Klois allegedly stormed out of
(40:23):
because she was basically talking about her sister Rebecca
Nurse, which is Sarah's ancestor.
Did you go to Salem to get a look at that notebook?
No, actually, it's in Connecticut at the former
Connecticut Historical Society, now the Connecticut Museum of
Culture and History. So yeah, there's that picture.
(40:45):
And the third picture is of Leo Igue paying tribute by laying
flowers at the Proctor's Ledge Memorial in Salem, which is at
the site where the hangings werebelieved to have taken place for
those convicted under the Salem witch Trials.
(41:06):
And seeing Bo at that photo, looking at it was very meta
experience. It was just interesting.
I got a picture of him looking at a picture of himself.
The other photos that are part of this exhibit are very moving.
(41:26):
You are looking at the faces of communities where they have seen
persecution against women and children and sometimes men or
witchcraft accusations. It's very touching.
It is. You'll learn a lot about what's
going on in the crisis by looking at reading the the
(41:48):
captions in the booklet that goes accompanies the exhibit.
And then after the art exhibit, we had a lovely dinner with the
other attendees. It was great just sitting at a
table. I would have been really
thrilled to have been at any of the tables in that room.
(42:12):
The only downside is you can only talk to so many people at a
dinner, but we had just just such wonderful conversation.
Yeah, there were attendees from Papua New Guinea at our table
from England, so it was wonderful conversation.
Yeah, it was great chatting and then at the end of the dinner
(42:36):
Kirsty Brimelow KC gave a talk about the Lancashire witch
trials. Yeah, and it was a great talk.
I really enjoy when this type ofgathering is happening.
There's just this constant recognition of past matching
present, and that even came through in her talk about the
(43:00):
victims of the Pendle witch trials and how that history even
sometimes overshadows the court today.
And I want to say about the barrister here, she I'm skipping
ahead to Day 2 for a minute. I hope you'll forgive me,
listener, but she gave another talk about talking about the
(43:25):
history of a resolution against female genital mutilation and
how that was implemented and what we can learn from the
implementation of that resolution.
For to apply to the resolution to eliminate these harmful
practices related to accusationsof witchcraft and ritual attacks
(43:50):
and dessert was yummy. I think I had cheesecake.
I am not really remembering. I just it was really good.
There was coffee served and I made sure everybody got a second
cup. Who wanted a second cup?
Yes, and there was salmon, whichI remember because I ate salmon
(44:12):
like four days that week. We really enjoyed getting to try
food in England and there were yummy roasted vegetables so
often and this dinner had them also.
It was great. It really was.
Kudos to the chef and team that pulled that off.
(44:33):
Day 2 we rode a double Decker bus most of the way to the
university. Yeah, it was impossible to get a
ride share in the morning and wasn't sure about how to go
about getting a taxi in the city.
So we ended up just riding the bus out to the university and
(44:55):
taking a little walk across the campus, which was the other
thing that I enjoyed eating the food.
I enjoyed talking to the people and just being out.
But I really enjoyed the weatherwhile we were there and again,
this might be we are going to doan episode specifically about
(45:16):
our tourism that we did, but I want to say England sunny mild
temperatures in the 60s to 70s Fahrenheit while we were there
for highs is very comfortable. You could just walk around, no
jacket usually and. No umbrella.
(45:36):
Be fine. Yeah.
And we only had to use umbrellasone day that we were there 1
morning and it rained. It did in the afternoon.
Yeah. Yeah.
It was just a lovely time in England.
Day 2 We did not have a presentation, so we got to just
settle in our conference seats and really soak in the
(45:58):
presentations and talking. Speaking of settling in and
having conversations, I was privileged enough to get to chat
frequently with Nigel Thompson during this conference.
The first day I enjoyed talking to him about podcasting.
The second day we were talking more about what we learned the
(46:22):
first day at the art gallery. He and his team were there
recording the conference and interviewing guests.
Nigel Very pleasant gentlemen. Tooth sock 2 so.
There's just something that happens when podcasters find
each other. There's just an acknowledgement
(46:44):
of craft that you have with eachother and you can talk all day
about it. At Day 2, we had more great
conversations with the attendees.
It was amazing that many of themknow the podcast and knew of us
before we met them. Yeah, it was such a warm
(47:07):
welcome, and getting to plan upcoming episodes in person with
experts that you're chatting with right there is so great.
It's really beats sending an e-mail.
Yeah, and it was so great. Day 2, we were free, as Sarah
said, just to appreciate all theother talks that were going on
(47:31):
and we learned so much. 1 great thing about it is we're going to
be interviewing a number of these individuals who spoke at
the conference, and so you'll get to hear what they talked
about as well. Our friend Doctor Deborah
Moretti came into town to hear her boss, Owen Davies, give the
(47:56):
keynote. They're working on a project
together and the keynote that Professor Davies gave was so
great about linking historic witchcraft persecution to modern
witchcraft persecution. It was so great meeting him.
Owen Davies keynote was going tobe one of my highlights and it
(48:20):
was I was really excited that I was going to get to hear him
speak in person. Having him as a guest on our
podcast was a really big deal tome.
Last year I hadn't even heard him speak, but I spied him
sitting in a seat on that first day and I was like, I thought,
what if this is my only opportunity to say hi?
(48:40):
It was the beginning of the day so I'm like, I have to go over
and say hi to Doctor Davies, buta little bit later I go in to
get a fresh cup of coffee and mycolleague is deep in
conversation with Doctor Davies.That's right, yeah.
Professor Davies is very interested in what goes on in
(49:03):
America. He wrote a book which is behind
Sarah America Bewitched, which talks about witchcraft
persecutions in the United States after the Salem witch
trials. And he talks about how more
people were killed because of witchcraft accusations after the
(49:24):
Salem witch trials than during. And so it's just lovely catching
up with them, chatting with them.
It's been at least a year since we talked to him about his book
on the art of the grimoire, and so great to catch up and we
ought to talk to him more duringthe conference as well and his
(49:48):
keynote. One of the points that stuck out
to me, I think it was it was basically his main point, was
that if you look at your 19th and 20th century persecutions,
extrajudicial action against people accused of witchcraft all
(50:09):
around the world, in Europe, England, the United States, all
over, if you look at those 19th and 20th century events, that's
where you can really see the closest similarities to what's
happening in the modern world. You talked about the close links
(50:30):
between those types of events. And it happens to be one of the
spaces of time that we haven't had the opportunity to share a
lot of stories. Yeah, we're really looking
forward to talking about that. But it's there's not really a
name for that period of witchcraft accusation.
(50:52):
I know Sarah did ask Professor Davies when he was on the show
last year about what do we call that time period, but that's the
time period that I'm most keen on getting into because we
haven't really peeled that layerback of what was happening 18th,
19th and 20th century with thosepost Salem witchcraft
(51:16):
accusations in the Western world.
Not only has there been academicliterature published on it, but
there is newspaper archives, there's articles, it's in the
papers. Yeah, if you go to
newspapers.com and just type in things like witch killing, which
(51:39):
killed, which murdered. Neighbor.
Surprising, yeah. Witchcraft accusation.
You find a surprising amount of things from even your own area.
No matter where you are in the world, these things have been
going on. Yeah.
(52:00):
So yeah, that was really good keynote.
And after all the talks were done, a round table was formed.
We got to sit down. Almost all the attendees just
sat around tables together and the keynote speakers and some
(52:23):
other members of the international network spoke out
about what needs to be done to implement the resolution.
And we got to hear from Professor Davies again.
We got to hear from Meluka and MIDI German again.
Leo. Leo Egway Phillip Gibbs spoke.
(52:44):
Friend Samantha Spence spoke. Miranda Forsythe spoke.
Charlotte Baker spoke. Want to give a shout out to the
crew that put on the conference,which was Charlotte Baker,
Miranda Forsythe, Samantha Spence, Alice Markham Canner,
Lethian Barthole took many handsto make that thing run the way
(53:06):
that and we learned so many things during those two days.
We've already talked about the commonalities between historical
witch hunts and contemporary harmful practices.
They're expensive. They are extensive and what I'd
(53:26):
like to point out and talking again about Professor Davies
book America Dewitched. Really, witchcraft accusations
didn't end when the European witch trials ended.
They continued on but went underground and extra legal.
(53:47):
That's why today, everyday people are experiencing violence
from witch hunts. People often look back at
historic witch hunts and say well that ended 304 hundred
years ago and depending where you are exactly and they say
(54:08):
well let's just not do that again.
But we see everyday occurrences of witch hunting of various
forms and especially the literalbrutal harmful practices are
still going on. And we're going to tackle this
by everyone working together. That was another big point that
(54:31):
was raised by Meluka and Betty Drummond and many of the other
speakers at the conference. Implementation of a resolution
of this nature, given the scope of this problem, it's really
going to take everybody from every background working
together. So researchers, academics,
(54:54):
advocates, activists, the media.You need faith-based communities
to get involved, you need non faith-based NGOs to get
involved. You need people who are in the
countries that are most effective and are part of those
(55:15):
nations and cultures. And you also need people in
other locations supporting them.So it really is going to take
all hands on deck. And there are plenty of ways
that you can get involved that Ithink we'll talk about shortly.
(55:36):
Yeah. One thing that came through the
keynotes but and also many of the other sessions is the need
for more and more data to be collected around the world about
the scope and scale of the problem and more data to both
(56:00):
quantify the issue but also qualify what is actually
happening around the world on the ground when these things
take place. Yeah.
And it's really about collectingit because there is information.
This tragedy can be substantiated with records and
(56:23):
the numbers of those are experiencing gender based
violence there. There's lots of places that
there is data, but it needs to be organized.
There's no government agencies going around our country or any
country gathering data on harmful practices related to
(56:45):
witchcraft accusations or ritualattacks.
There's no central repository where you can go and say, oh,
here's all the data. But people at the conference did
talk about need to make it to have a centralized database also
where all this data can reside and different researchers can
(57:07):
access it and study the situation.
But we need this data to be ableto make the case to the nations
of the world that they should take steps to do what's said in
Resolution 47, eight for them todo, which we'll actually cover
(57:28):
shortly. I wanted to say something about
So what is AUN resolution? But say you don't really have to
worry about that part. You need to pay attention to the
values that it is representing, which are things that are
important not to everybody though, but that are important
(57:49):
to those that care about safeguarding children and other
vulnerable people. And some of those values are
equality, non discrimination, human dignity, child safety,
elder care, women's rights, freedom of thought, conscience
and religion. And to quote the resolution,
(58:11):
everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person,
and that no one shall be subjected to torture or to
cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.
That's right. That's a value that we should
all share. It's enshrined in constitutions
around the world, those rights to life, liberty and security of
(58:35):
person, freedom from cruel and unusual punishment right there
in the US Constitution and otherconstitutions, and also in the
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which was signed 76
(58:56):
years ago. Now.
We're not going to read to you aportion of Resolution 47 eight.
The entire resolution contains 2pages of WHEREAS clauses,
basically where it's stating, laying the groundwork, stating
all the different international covenants and treaties that have
(59:18):
been adopted that apply to this situation, that say that you
need to follow these rules. So we're going to read the
recommendations that the Human Rights Council has for its
member for UN member states, thethings that states should be
(59:39):
doing to eliminate harmful practices.
Here we go. The Humans Rights Council urges
states to condemn harmful practices related to accusations
of witchcraft and ritual attacksthat result in human rights
violations. Also urges states to take all
measures necessary to ensure theelimination of harmful practices
(01:00:01):
amounting to human rights violations related to
accusations of witchcraft and ritual attacks, and to ensure
accountability and the effect ofprotection of all persons,
particularly persons and vulnerable situations.
Calls upon States to ensure thatno one within their jurisdiction
is deprived of the right to life, liberty or security of
(01:00:24):
person because of religion or belief, and that no one is
subjected to torture or other cruel, inhuman or degrading
treatment or punishment or arbitrary arrest or detention on
that account, and to bring justice to all perpetrators of
violations and abuses of these rights in compliance with
applicable and international law.
(01:00:46):
Invite States, in collaboration with relevant regional and
international organizations, to promote bilateral, regional and
international initiatives to support the protection of all
persons vulnerable to harmful practices amounting to human
rights violations related to accusations of witchcraft and
ritual attacks, while noting that in providing protection,
(01:01:08):
attention to local context is critical.
Also invite States to draw attention to this issue in the
context of the Universal Periodic Review.
Emphasizes that states should carefully distinguish between
harmful practices amounting to human rights violations related
to accusations of witchcraft andritual attacks, and the lawful
(01:01:29):
and legitimate exercise of different kinds of religion or
beliefs in order to preserve theright to freely manifest a
religion or a belief individually or in a community
with others, including for persons belonging to religious
minorities. Encourages human rights
mechanisms, including relevant special procedures of the Human
Rights Council and treaty bodies, to compile and share
(01:01:52):
information on harmful practicesrelated to accusations of
witchcraft and ritual attacks and their impact on the
enjoyment of human rights. Request the United Nations High
Commissioner for Human Rights toorganize an expert consultation
with States and other relevant stakeholders, including the
United Nations Secretariat and relevant bodies, representatives
(01:02:13):
of sub regional and regional organizations, international
human rights mechanisms, national human rights
institutions and non governmental organizations.
The results of which will help the Office of the High
Commissioner to prepare a study on the situation of the
violations and abuses of human rights rooted in harmful
practices related to accusationsof witchcraft and ritual
(01:02:33):
attacks, as well as stigmatization, and to inform
further action by existing mechanisms at the United Nations
and to submit a report there on to the Human Rights Council at
its 52nd session. And that resolution was adopted
by the Human Rights Council on July 12th, 2021.
And since then there's been somemore activity in implementing
(01:02:55):
it. One thing that has been a major
development is the Pan African Parliament developed guidelines
for its member nations to develop their own national
action plans to ensure coordinated response to harmful
practices occurring in accusations of witchcraft and
(01:03:18):
ritual attacks. So how is the report distinct
from the resolution? The report goes in more detail
about the nature of the crisis. The resolution doesn't really
establish the nature of the crisis in terms of magnitude or
(01:03:39):
how it impacts specific communities, which the report
breaks down the impacts to various to children, to women
and girls, to elders. It breaks down all those things,
what actual human rights violations are being committed.
As well, it gives some specific recommendations that are for the
(01:04:06):
implementation by the Member States and other stakeholders.
So we're going to read a sectionfrom this report.
It was given in 2023. We had mentioned it in the
resolution. One of the steps is for this
report to be created and it was done in February 2023.
(01:04:31):
We'll read the recommendations section, recalling
recommendations made by human rights treaty bodies, the
Universal Periodic Review and Special Procedure mandate
holders. The Office of the High
Commissioner of Human Rights recommends that States undertake
the following actions. Develop and implement
(01:04:52):
comprehensive frameworks at national and local levels,
focusing on the prevention of human rights violations and
abuses rooted in harmful practices related to accusations
of and associations with witchcraft and ritual attacks,
as well as stigmatization, with a view to ensuring the
effectiveness and sustainabilityof such efforts.
Further research should be conducted on the design and
(01:05:14):
implementation of policy and legal measures, including
lessons learned from responses to hate crimes, prevention
efforts, protective measures, and responsive services.
Address and promptly investigatehuman rights violations and
abuses rooted in harmful practices related to accusations
of witchcraft and ritual attacks.
Prosecute inadequately punish the perpetrators of such attacks
(01:05:37):
and in that regard, enhance the capacities of relevant
stakeholders, including police officers, prosecutors and
judges. Collect and publish information,
including updated disaggregated data, exploring the behavioral
barriers that prevent law enforcement officers from
fulfilling their obligations to promptly investigate harmful
practices related to accusationsof witchcraft and ritual
(01:06:00):
attacks, and identify strategic entry points for pilot
interventions. Review an update relevant asylum
policy guidance, including country guidance notes, to
include all countries that have increased vulnerability to
harmful practices related to accusations of witchcraft, as
well as associations with witchcraft and ritual attacks
(01:06:20):
that potentially threaten the life and safety of persons in
vulnerable situations, pushing them to flee their countries and
seek asylum. Ensure that national
authorities, as well as all human rights mechanisms,
effectively address both human rights violations and abuses
rooted in harmful practices related to accusations of
witchcraft and to association with witchcraft.
(01:06:43):
Conduct further research on prevention and responses,
including an assessment of the risks related to a variety of
settings, including conflict, inter communal hostility,
political and economic instability, elections, natural
disasters, environmental degradation, and public health
crises. Ensure that authorities
(01:07:03):
identify, document, disseminate promising practices of combating
human rights violations and abuses rooted in harmful
practices related to accusationsof witchcraft and ritual
attacks. And organize systematic
awareness raising campaigns targeting both men and women, as
well as community and village chiefs and religious leaders,
(01:07:24):
particularly in rural areas, with a view to tackling the root
causes of harmful practices related to accusations of
witchcraft and ritual attacks aswell as stigmatization.
Many more details on the implementation ideas that people
have on how to put together national action plans is
(01:07:45):
available in additional episodesand go back to this in many
upcoming episodes to give more detail on what still needs to be
done. But what I talked about when I
was talking about the Our York presentation on ending witch
hunts, the holistic approach is basically what's needed to go
(01:08:08):
forward. You need an all in strategy
encompassing all aspects of lifeand society.
We have many guests that you aregoing to hear soon that
presented at this conference. Yes, many coming up and many
that you've heard in the past orcan go back and check out.
(01:08:32):
So check our show notes for links to past episodes with
these great guests who spoke at the conferences, and subscribe
to our newsletter for information on our upcoming
guests. We thank everyone who supported
(01:08:52):
this trip and who have shared information and who use their
voice, platform and community toadvocate.
Yes, thank everybody that we metat the conferences as well as,
like Sarah said, everyone who generously contributed to our
(01:09:13):
travel expenses. We really appreciate you
allowing us to do this. We think it's very important for
the movement this conference. And Witch Hunt has recorded 99
cases related to spiritual and ritual abuse in the United
States. Contributing factors known in
some of these cases from the court documents of those who
(01:09:36):
committed the crimes are extremereligious views, government
conspiracy theories, superstition, mental illness,
and drugs. Most of these factors were
present in the sad case of 13 month old Amora Bain Carson,
whose life ended on December 2nd, 2008 at the hands of Blaine
(01:09:56):
Milam and her mother Jessica Carson.
Court documents tell us that Blaine had a fourth grade
education and a history with drugs.
Jessica became withdrawn and possibly suffered from psychotic
depression after she began to date Blaine and was under his
watchful eye 24/7. The pair used the Ouija board to
(01:10:18):
contact their deceased fathers and believe the spirit was
released and entered Amora. Blaine later performed the
exorcism while Jessica waited inthe next room.
Blaine was found guilty in 2010 and sentenced to death.
However, Blaine filed an appeal stating he can't be executed due
(01:10:39):
to an intellectual disability. Though these factors should be
noted in our research, it is most important for us to
remember the innocent lives thatwere lost.
Rest in peace, Amora, Baine, Carson, and all of those who
will be remembered in future segments of Minute with Mary.
Thank you. And thank you for joining us for
(01:11:01):
this episode. Have a great day and a beautiful
tomorrow. Yay, she said it.
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