October 28, 2025 • 47 mins
Summary
In this enlightening conversation, Kate and Kristal delve into the intricate world of necromancy, exploring its true essence beyond popular misconceptions. They discuss personal experiences in the underworld, the significant role of Hekate, and the various tools and rituals that necromancers utilize. The dialogue emphasizes the importance of understanding the underworld as a multifaceted realm, the necessity of protection in necromantic practices, and the unique relationship between the living and the dead. Through their shared insights, they aim to demystify necromancy and highlight its potential for healing and growth.
Highlights:
- Necromancy is about communicating with the dead, not animating them.
- Personal experiences in the underworld can be transformative and enlightening.
- Hekate plays a central role in necromancy as a guide and protector.
- The underworld is not just a dark place; it has gardens and streams.
- Tools like grave dirt and bones are essential for necromantic rituals.
- The necromantic circle differs from traditional Wiccan or New Age circles in structure and purpose.
- Consecration and protection are vital in necromantic work to avoid unwanted attachments.
- The dead are not omniscient; they have their own limitations and experiences.
- Understanding the multiplicity of souls can enhance spiritual practices.
- Necromancers can help guide lost souls back to the living.
- Eidolon/Eidola or Eidolans is a spirit image of a living or dead person, spectre or phantasm and the word Kristal uses to refer to spirits. From ancient Greek literature and referenced in The Bones Fall in a Spiral by Mortellus.
Resources Mentioned:
The Bones Fall in a Spiral by Mortellus (this book is where Kristal has adapted many of her current rituals and practices), The Egyptian Book of the Dead | Ancient Egyptian Funerary Text, Greek Magical Papyri | Graeco-Roman Egypt Text
Links to all our social media
Witching Out Loud on Substack @witchingoutloud
Kate
Website: www.starsandmoontarot.com
Instagram @priestessforhire
Instagram @starsandmoontarot
Kristal
Website: https://theunveiledspirit.com/
Substack @kristalthomas
BlueSky @theunveiledspirit.bsky.social
Facebook & Instagram: @TheUnveiledSpirit
Editor & Associate Producer:
Ash Black at Blackheart Media LLC
@blackheartmediallc on FaceBook
Audio Attribution
For audio attributions please visit: Audio Attributions
Intro & Outro Music: www.purple-planet.com - Let the Mystery Unfold from Ep 56 forward.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kate (00:03):
Hail and welcome to Witching Out Loud, the short
form podcast where we celebratethe art of witchcraft and
finding magic in your dailylife.
Join us for a cozy chat aboutwitchy ways and practical
woo-woo.
Kristal (00:16):
I'm Kristal of Unveiled, Necromancer and
Spiritual Mindset Coach.
Kate (00:21):
And I'm Kate with Priestess for Hire and an
intuitive tarot reader.
In an earlier episode, we talkedabout shamanism, which is
something I strongly align with.
And today we're going to chatabout necromancy, Kristal's
primary calling.
This is not animating the deadas portrayed in popular media.
(00:41):
This is communicating with thedead and facilitating them in
their afterlife.
Today we'll cover what isnecromancy, the underworld and
the tools of the necromancer,and necromantic ritual.
Kristal (01:10):
So that's a good combo for the underworld.
But choose your poison.
Enter yourself into yourmeditative state however you get
there.
And then once you're in thismeditative state, I want you to
(01:33):
see the world tree on yourmind's eye in front of you.
Walk towards the world tree,and that door appears for you to
go down into the world tree,into your soul home.
Come deep into the soul seat ofyour body, of your soul.
(02:00):
Once you arrive in this space,ask for the door to the
underworld.
You see the door up here, youmay see some symbols, some
colors.
For me, it is black with gold,an etching and an onk.
(02:22):
Step through that door knowingyou are safe in these travels,
and at any time you may call forHekate to guide you and shine
her light for you.
As you walk forward, the wayopens into a cave.
(02:42):
You are traveling down the AxisMundi, the soul of the world.
Deeper into the underworld youmove.
As you're walking, notice anyof the sights, the sounds that
appear around you.
(03:03):
How does it feel differently?
As you walk, you come upon acrossroads, and a figure appears
with torches on either side andblack hounds at her feet.
Hakate is here.
(03:25):
Ask her to guide you into theunderworld.
She turns and heads deeper intothe underworld, her torches
lighting the way.
Follow her.
She beckons you into your innerworld.
She leads you to a river.
(03:49):
There is a boat.
Hekate waves you onto the boat.
The boat begins moving of itsown accord, floating easily down
the river.
Your boat will bring you to aplace that you are meant to be
on this trip.
(04:10):
Notice the lands as you movethrough.
If you feel called to an area,your boat will naturally pause
for you to step out of the boatand explore this space,
remembering that you are safehere.
You may find yourself in thegroves of Persephone, the
(04:37):
gateway of Hakate, the blessedfields, the land of dreams, the
halls of night, Tartarus, Duat,maybe the fields of the
(04:58):
indifferent dead.
Who do you find here?
Is it a guide?
Is it an ancestor?
A deity?
Speak with them and ask whatyou were brought to this place
to understand.
What knowledge can you bringback with you?
(05:18):
And when you are complete,thank your guide, your ancestor,
the deity that you werespeaking with.
Move back to your boat, stepin, and it will bring you back
(05:41):
to the gateway with Hekate.
And she will guide you back tothis realm.
Coming back to this realm.
Coming back to your soul home.
Coming back through the worldtree.
(06:03):
Back to your body.
Clearing and balancing in anyway that you need to.
Kate (06:26):
I can't even talk about half of what just happened.
Uh-huh.
Kristal (06:30):
Some of it's secret, but it's quite a it usually is
when it's the underworld.
Kate (06:37):
Mm-hmm.
Uh, but Persephone psychopompt,and Hekate met us there.
And then we went somewherespecial to me.
And these deer showed up, theseblack deer.
And I'm not really entirelysure what they were for, but
they were, they just kind oflike materialized out of the
forest and then kind of circledaround Persephone and Hikate and
(07:00):
me, and just were like, we wesee you, you know, we know who
you are, and we're with you.
Do you know anything about deerin that underworld place?
Kristal (07:10):
Well, deer in general are about growth.
They're about life, they'reabout abundance.
And in the underworld, that'sno different.
It's just a different plane,but that they're black, like
there's some growth for you inthere.
And you could follow them tofind where that growth is.
So usually when animals appearto me, and for me, I'm I'm with
(07:32):
Hakate.
So it's usually a black dog.
It usually looks much like myblack dog, but he's kind of
ghosty, like moves more like thedog in Nightmare Before
Christmas.
Totally the image I had.
And I follow him towards likewhere I need to be, um, and is a
(07:54):
guide.
So they could be a guide foryou in the underworld on where
your growth is.
Kate (07:59):
Nice.
Okay.
Thanks.
Okay.
Okay.
Kristal (08:03):
Welcome to the underworld, Kate.
Kate (08:05):
For real.
I don't think I've everactually consciously on
purposely gone there.
Yeah.
Kristal (08:11):
Most people don't because it's ingrained in our
minds and our hearts and ourculture that down and underworld
and dark is evil, is hell, isfire and brimstone.
No one goes there willingly.
And that's not the underworld.
(08:32):
I want to tell a little bit ofmy story and how I came to
necromancy before I jump intowhat necromancy is, because I
think it helps dispel some ofthe myths along the story and
the blockages that come up inour brains around it.
Because I think I've said thison other episodes.
I am a Taurus, I'm Venus, I amlife, I am a gardener, I am an
(08:56):
herbalist, I am all greenthings, happy, pretty much love
and light.
But deep in my soul is thisdark darkness.
And I think I was always thisreally growth love and light
piece because I was trying tobalance that.
And as I've continued tobalance that, I don't feel the
need for one over the otheranymore.
(09:17):
So it's interesting that thenecromancy has come forward.
And I was feeling uh Hekatecalling me towards something.
And this all happened about twoyears ago as I was working
through some trauma andrecovering some personal
memories.
And recovering those memoriesunlocked a piece of my magic.
(09:38):
And it was the necromancy.
And I didn't understand it.
I didn't know what washappening.
And so I went to a reader.
Uh, I was at Crescent Moon inTacoma, and they were having
like a spiritual fair.
And this gal had this beautifulset that was an astrology
wheel, and then she had allthese crystals and stones.
And you picked a certain amountof crystals and stones.
(10:01):
It's very much like bonereading, and then you toss them
onto the mat and they fall intothe different astrological
houses and things like that.
So I got a reading from her,and um, she kept saying, I I
feel like uh there's a goddesshere.
Uh, I think it's Hekate.
And she was worried that I wasgonna freak out that it was
Hekate, and I'm like, Oh, yeah,yeah, I work with her all the
(10:22):
time.
And she's like, Oh, okay, good.
Uh and then she goes on, seethat chick.
She's like, I think she'sasking you to be like a death
doula.
And so I was like, Okay, likeit didn't ping in my soul.
So I did a little research.
I'm like, what does a deathdoula do?
And I'm like, I don't want tosit at the bedside of dying
(10:44):
people.
I said, Hekate, I respectfullydecline.
And respect she's like, Yeah,she's like, come do a journey
with me.
So I got all set up.
She gave me some guidelines onwhat to do, and so I set up the
incense that she told me, thealtar, everything, and went on
this journey with her.
And she took me to theunderworld for the first time.
(11:06):
And unbeknownst to me was notthe first time.
So I went on this journey withher.
When I woke up from thisjourney, it was two hours later.
And I did not fall asleep.
Kate (11:20):
Holy shit.
Kristal (11:20):
I was gone for a long time.
I was exhausted, I wasstarving.
It was really intense.
And that's when she made itunderstood to me that she said,
I didn't say death doula, I saidnecromancer, and let me show
you what that means.
And so she took me on thiswhole tour of the underworld,
was introduced to Hades andPersephone, and they're like,
(11:43):
Finally she's back.
And I'm like, What do you meanI'm back?
Right?
And so this is what I say whenI say the old magics are coming
back into the world.
Our old magics are coming backto us.
So in a past life, I was anecromancer, full-blown, and not
necessarily a good person.
(12:05):
It was a tough one.
And to make an example, likeHades took me to some places
within the underworld, and hetook me to where all the souls
kind of are kept.
And he's like, This time, youdon't touch anything here.
This is not for you, right?
(12:27):
You prove to me that youdeserve to be here.
So I uh fucked something up.
It was a past me.
I'm like, it wasn't me.
He's like, I'm watching you.
And I feel like this is some ofthe ways that necromancy got
this bad rap.
I was male in that incarnation.
Um, and it was power.
(12:47):
It was about power and ego.
And necromancers not only spokewith the dead in those times,
they commanded them for theirown thing.
Kate (12:58):
That animation story comes from that we have today.
Kristal (13:02):
Exactly.
And they weren't necessarilygreat about it.
They would tie the dead totheir will, bind them to them
for their purposes, which makessense why I have so much
struggle with that in mypractice now of binding or
commanding demons or things ofthat nature, because I messed
(13:23):
that up once before, and Iapparently my soul remembers not
to go down that road.
And it helped to learn why, whyI had such an aversion to it.
It's not that I don't do it,but it takes a lot to get me
there.
And I always make sure my ego'snot involved.
Always before I get started.
(13:45):
So it makes so much sense.
Persephone's this was where Istarted building a relationship
with Persephone at that timebecause she was like poo-pooing
Hades almost.
Like, she's not gonna do thatthis time because she's her,
right?
She's not him.
And Hekate's like, I'm teachingher.
So you guys need to get onboard.
(14:06):
I'm teaching her.
And she started taking methrough and teaching me some of
the things I'll share in ourepisode.
And then I came across, Istarted doing research.
So a lot of the stuff that I'mgonna talk about came from the
Egyptian Book of the Dead, whichis a series of 12 or 8 books.
Don't quote me.
So it's only one book of all ofthem, but it's about the
(14:30):
funerary rites and rituals ofthe dead.
Very fascinating stuff.
And then actually, one of ourlisteners and a friend of mine
said, I came across this book.
And it's The Bones Fall in aSpiral, a necromantic primer.
So this is a more modern one.
And this is by Mortellus.
She is a mortician and anecromancer.
(14:52):
Fabulous book.
If anyone is interested innecromancy, definitely grab her
book.
So I started doing some moreresearch because everything was
personal gnosis and thesejourneys I was going on with uh
Hikate.
And I was like, I started toget really nervous.
And then uncovering that pastlife really helped me understand
why I was so nervous.
And I'm like, I'm gonna messthis up again.
(15:14):
And I'm like, why, why do Ihave these feelings?
So I started reading her bookand then saw maps of the
underworld.
I was like, this is real.
Like this other person I'venever met in my life or talked
to is seeing the same things I'mseeing.
So this is really real.
Um, so it's fantastic to havethat.
No, it's not just yourimagination.
(15:35):
Right.
So let's talk about that's kindof how I I am.
I am not an expert innecromancy.
I would say Mortellis isdefinitely an expert in
necromancy.
So take some classes from her,grab her books.
Um I am a newbie.
So this is what I'm new at, andreally working it very
(15:58):
differently, I think, than otherpeople are, because of what
Hekate has tasked me to do.
So a necromancer is simplysomeone who does divination
through consultation with thedead.
And uh, got this term fromMortellus's idolon, which is a
term that means specter orphantasm.
And I really like that becauseI don't see like a dead person
(16:22):
doesn't just appear to melooking like Kate staring at me
through the computer screen.
It's uh whispers of a person,it's a shadow of a person.
It looks like a phantasm or aspecter, but that feels very
horror movie kind of feel to it.
And so when I came across thatword Eidolon, I really love it.
(16:44):
And I feel that the spiritsthat I'm working with have more
respect from it.
Yeah, and I interactdifferently.
Yes, absolutely.
E-I D-O-L-O-N.
Kate (16:55):
Absolutely was not typing that correctly from the start.
That way we can all find this.
Yeah, I had to do the samething.
So it's been it's been a biglearning curve for me.
But it's all about this beliefin the dead that they have an
existence beyond life.
And I know that I've seenspirits and Eidolon my whole
(17:20):
life, but I couldn't control itnecessarily.
Today, I can control it andwhen I want to speak to them and
when I do not.
And I can control it in a bonereading when I'm in the middle
of a wine bar doing a bonereading for someone and their
ancestors come through.
I can get those messages tothem now.
(17:40):
And that's because of thisstudy in necromancy.
So I have found it now to be avery beautiful path.
And I was very scared of itwalking in.
And I think all thislife-giving Taurian energy that
I have blended with thenecromancy gives it so much
depth and life.
(18:01):
So I I'm really excited to beon this path and sharing it with
everybody today.
Fantastic.
Thank you.
And yeah, it isservice-oriented, it's a
service-oriented uh ministry oftalking to the spirits and
giving voice to the dead thatcan comfort the living.
(18:23):
Right.
When I have someone sittingacross from me getting a bone
reading, and their father who'srecently passed, comes through
and I just simply say they'rehere and they love you, like the
amount of comfort that comes tosomeone in that moment, it's a
(18:44):
service.
And I feel honored that I getto do that.
And so if I'm stilted as I gothrough it, it's because I fight
with my past kind of lifenature, going, no, I shouldn't
be doing this.
One of the cool things that Ilearned, actually, before I step
into that, you don't have to bepsychic or a medium to practice
(19:05):
necromancy.
You can learn necromancy.
And uh Mortellis talks about,especially those who have
touched death.
So you've had a near-deathexperience, a major trauma,
things of that nature can bringyou really close to the
underworld and then thereby giveyou more of a connection.
But she shares lots of rituals.
(19:25):
There's lots of books thatshare lots of rituals that can
help you connect more and you donot have to be psychic or
medium to do the work.
Right.
And I make a distinctionbetween a medium and a
necromancer.
A medium to me is someone whoreceives communication, right?
They kind of get downloads,much like a channel.
They get a download of thatinformation.
(19:47):
A necromancer calls it forth.
And it's where I get in thatsticky space of, oh, should I be
commanding them?
And that's where a lot of mybeliefs around banishing and
commanding are not necessarilyharsh.
They are clear communication,right?
(20:10):
And so that helps me move intothat.
So I think that's thedistinction between the medium
and that.
And the other thing that Ifound fascinating is before
Christianity changed thenarrative on souls, that we have
one soul, we believed that thesoul was made up of a lot of
parts, like multiple pieces ofus.
(20:30):
And when I'm working withspirits, that's what I find,
right?
It's not the whole person.
Yeah, it's not the whole personthat appears in front of me.
It's one facet of that person,which explains a lot in
spirituality how Hikate can bewith me, but also with you.
And we have a similar butdifferent experience, right?
(20:51):
It's like those entities, thoseenergies, they're not one
piece.
I agree.
It and it I think it's reallyimportant for us to to pause in
this moment and like really dowhatever work is necessary to
allow yourself to sink into thatbecause I experience so much
variety in the woo.
And I work with deities thatother people have very different
(21:12):
interpretations of, and itreally can't invalidate either
of us.
We're still having theexperience we're having.
And I don't feel eloquent rightnow about it, but it is just
really important to begin toaccept multiplicity.
Yeah.
The fact that a bazilliontimelines can exist, right?
Even even beyond just the oneand the two, but like 700,000
(21:35):
million timelines are existingat the same time.
So if you're having onePersephone and they're having
another Persephone, it's just adifferent timeline where a
different thing came todifferent conclusions.
And anyway, I just my mind isnot completely wrapped around it
yet.
But it was a really importantmoment of like, because I come
from absolutism in Christianity.
(21:56):
There is one God and one way tobe, and we have the truth on
it.
Fuck no.
Kristal (22:00):
Yeah.
The world is almost never blackand white.
Kate (22:03):
Right.
There are a hundred millionbazillion gods and seven hundred
thousand million ways just forthat god to express itself in
her own way.
So do whatever shadow worknecessary to begin to accept and
open yourself to multiplicity.
Kristal (22:17):
Yeah.
Kate (22:17):
Well said.
Okay.
Sorry.
Commercial break ended.
Kristal (22:20):
And just start with your soul is lots of pieces.
It's not just one big chunk.
And I, you know, when you startlooking at it that way, past
lives make more sense.
It's like, how could how couldthis person be connected to that
person?
Well, it's not.
There was other parts that thatwere connected to this part
over here.
And so, yeah, it's just it canbe a little bit of a mind fuck,
(22:43):
but a cool mind fuck.
Kate (22:45):
Well, and to add to the mind fuck, I'm listening to the
Dolores Cannon books.
She's just changing my world.
So glad she got to exist and togive us what we what we have
from her.
You can imprint, you can gointo the Akashic Records and you
can ask for these differentlives to be imprinted upon you
for this incarnation so that youcome in with that knowledge and
experience.
(23:05):
So you can manifest knowledgeand experience of lifetimes you
didn't even actually live,because it's just a library, and
we can also take thatknowledge.
And so it further should notinvalidate your experience to
think that there are you andsomeone else can both have
memories of being Cleopatrabecause one of you, or 10,000 of
(23:26):
you, downloaded that lifetimeand imprinted it on this
incarnation so that you wouldhave access to her experience.
It doesn't mean that someone isthe true Cleopatra and someone
else is not.
Yeah, well said.
Kristal (23:39):
When you brought up the um Akashic Records, I will put
this on our social media, butthere's this cool map that is
from the Bones Fall in a Spiral.
And she kind of mapped how thedifferent planes of reality work
together.
And you have like thecollective unconscious, which is
where our Akashic records arethe dreaming, the astral plane,
(24:00):
the realms of deity, and ofcourse the kingdom of the dead.
So it reminded me of how thosethings kind of move together,
and they're not, it's not likeupper world is up and underworld
is down.
It's more that they're on thesame field, the same plane.
They're just kind of Venndiagrammed together.
(24:22):
So it's not, even though wecall it underworld and upper
world, that's that's not quitehow it works.
So I love calling it thekingdom of the dead and trying
to switch my um verbiage fromunderworld to that, because I
think it helps dispel some ofthose myths too.
Right.
Um, things that thenecromancers do, other than
(24:45):
obviously giving voice to thedead and hope to those living,
uh, they can help assist thedead on their journey to the
underworld.
And this is where most of mywork is is assisting those that
are lost to find their way.
And my work is a littledifferent, and I haven't found
this in any necromantic text, isa little bit of an, I guess, a
(25:07):
necromantic shaman of becauseI'm doing soul retrieval of
sorts, but they're the soulspieces that are stuck in the
underworld, and I bring thoseback.
So, and I I do it willy-nilly.
I don't always do it like Katedoesn't come to me and say, go
find this piece.
It's I find a lost piece whileI'm journeying and I ask if it
(25:30):
wants to go home, and then Ibring it home, and then I ask
the person, their highest self,and it's people I don't know.
I ask them if if they want thispiece back, and this is where
it was lost.
And do they want it back?
And I bring it back to them.
So if you woke up one morningand you're like, How did I
remember this?
Why do I feel sad about this?
(25:50):
Or why do I feel more complete?
Could have been me.
Kate (25:53):
Could have been.
Feel free to tell me anytimeyou come across my parts and
pieces laying about.
I have a picture of you as alitter patrol.
And you're like, found a piece.
Okay, I'm the soul then and putit in the bag.
Just walking around litteringthe underworld with pieces and
parts of ourselves trailingbehind us, you know, and you're
like, fuck's sake, people.
(26:14):
Oh my gosh.
Kristal (26:17):
This is the work Hekate wants me to do.
And when she brought me throughthese pieces, and I saw how
many of these fragments were inthe underworld, it was me,
Hekate, uh, Persephone, andHades.
And he said, they don't belonghere.
They're not like the underworldwas never meant to house this
(26:38):
many fragments of people, butthis is stuffing your darkness
down.
This we're stuffing it intothese dark places and never
going back for it.
And that's why she's callingforth the necromancers to assist
in this work.
So I am working to document mywork and write a book on this
(27:00):
process.
That's where I veer from othernecromancers is this new
process.
When I look at someone likeMortellis, who's a mortician,
makes so much sense.
She has so much reverence forthe dead.
I and there's a lot of servicein that at least.
And that is a classicnecromantic path.
I do want to say the dead in mybelief are not all-knowing.
(27:24):
Just like I don't believespirits, guides, ancestors are
all knowing.
We don't die and all of asudden become God.
Like we're not all-knowingomnipotent, we're still flawed.
Kate (27:38):
I think it's a big fallacy that we're taught that the
other side is omniscience.
This is the the only reasonthat we're not omniscient is
because we're alive and that'sit.
No, they are not omniscient.
I don't care what purpose theyhave, unless they are source,
they're really not omniscient,actually.
Kristal (27:53):
Yeah.
So it's really hard to accept.
Verify the information that youget, right?
The same, like go back to thespirit episode on elements.
We also did another episode,maybe on divination.
It was divination.
Kate (28:06):
And we talked about you can expect to meet on the other
side to uh guides and allows.
And how to verify.
Kristal (28:14):
So definitely do that.
And also another big fear I hadis, you know, the abusers that
are dead.
Yeah, you can block them fromcoming through too.
Like you don't have to confrontthem, you don't have to have
them in your space.
You can say, you know, no onewho has harmed me in life gets
access to me on the other planeeither.
(28:36):
So those are two big fears Iwanted to lay to rest.
I want to talk about what itlooks like in the underworld.
And this was the part that Iloved.
And I did put a map and I'll umput that out there.
This is it most looks like theGreek interpretation of the
underworld to me when I gothere.
But there is this access to allthese different places that I
(28:58):
can get to.
So I can also get to Duat,which is more of the Egyptian
space.
And when you're looking atthis, there's all these rivers.
So it made so much sense when Isaw this photo.
I was like, God, why is thereso much friggin' water in the
underworld?
It's just rivers.
It's all freaking everythingtogether.
Yep, exactly.
And so when I went on a journeyafter recovering some memories
(29:24):
and realizing there was a bigpiece of my soul that was in the
underworld and trapped, I cameinto the underworld and I found
myself in the like what would belike the Stygian marsh.
It's just like this black,inky, swampy pond that's just
(29:45):
feeding into the river ofmemory, which is where we go to
lose all of our memories of ourpast life before we were reborn
again.
And myself was broken andcovered in that kind of tar
black dirt.
And I pulled myself out andpulled all of that off of
myself.
(30:05):
It was really intense.
And I brought her back with meto my soul home.
We are still not integrated.
It's almost a split personalityfeel, but we're working on it.
And that is where I learned theprocess was by doing it on
myself.
And I've recovered other piecesthat were not quite so
(30:28):
dramatic, but that is probablywhere I got such a connection to
the underworld because part ofme's been there most of my life.
And she still hangs out there.
She is most comfortable there.
Kate (30:41):
Yeah, she's infused.
She's steeped, like a littleteabag.
Kristal (30:45):
She's like this over here.
And so for me, when I went downthere and started exploring,
and especially because I spend alot of time there with myself,
um, who lives there, I reallywanted to kind of map it out and
understand it because I feel soat peace when I'm there.
(31:07):
When other people talk aboutheaven, that to me is the
underworld.
It's this peace.
It's not all dark, it's notfire and brimstone.
There are groves, there aregardens, there are ponds and
streams and waterfalls.
All of that exists there too.
It's just, and it's probablyfor my neurodivergent little
(31:29):
brain, it's all muted.
So there's like it's like ashade of gray over it, like the
cloudy gray northwestern skyfeel to the whole thing.
Kate (31:42):
Yeah, that's how it felt when you were leading us through
it earlier.
And it feels like it's just thesaturation is toned down so
that it's less stimulating.
We don't have to beoverstimulated by those data
points because we need to bereceptive to different data
points while we're there.
So the saturation is justturned down a little.
Exactly.
Kristal (32:00):
Um, so I wanted to share that a little bit before I
jumped into some of the toolsof the necromancer.
Um, obviously, Hekate is acentral figure in necromancy and
probably the main figure ofnecromancy.
I did not know that, and Iworked with her for a long time.
She's the crossroads, she'storches, she's got that
(32:21):
psychopomp role of guiding.
So I am a torchbearer forHekate.
So I am a guide that helpsguide those through the
underworld.
I feel more every day, more ifI could spend more time on it.
Mercury is also tied withnecromancy because he's also a
guide of souls and sometimescomes alongside Hekate.
(32:42):
And it was so interesting to methe first time Mercury came
alongside.
And it was like he was verynon-binary, somewhat effeminate,
and I thought it was Nike, andhe was so offended.
Yeah.
Um, and so I haven't done a tonof work with Mercury, but am
(33:03):
becoming acquainted with Mercurybecause what he does really
well is helps me messenger thosesouls back to people.
Like he has that skill andability.
So I need to do that.
Kate (33:16):
Sorry.
Now I just had an image of himyeeting souls.
You and him being like, off yougo, yeet that shit, yeet soul.
Kristal (33:26):
Goofball.
The underworld is the realmthat's overseen by gods of death
and liminality, and it'sinhabited by the dead.
It's not just inhabited by thebad people, it is inhabited by
all dead.
The Elysian fields are in theunderworld.
(33:47):
They're not in a heaven.
I'm not Christian.
All dead to me are in theunderworld.
They're just in a differentpart.
It's like a theme park that,like, this one over here is a
whole world unto itself, andthis one over here is a whole
world unto itself, and they'rejust connected through a liminal
(34:08):
space.
Just depending on your life,who you were and where you were,
is where you go to in theunderworld.
But all dead are there.
Um, tools for necromancers,grave salt.
So I will make grave salt bytaking the kind of shavings from
a headstone and mixing thatwith salt.
(34:29):
All ethically sourced.
I don't just wander around toeveryone's headstone.
It has to be someone I know orthat a spirit has invited me to
that grave site.
Mortellus uses corpse water.
So literally, as she's washingher beloved dead, she saves that
water.
I think in the type of workthat she does and classic
(34:51):
necromancy, it's probablyneeded.
She also uses sutures or sutureneedles that were used on the
dead.
Kate (34:59):
Yeah, I can see how it'd be imbued with an incredible
amount of power.
My first instinct is I don'twant to get stuck with someone
else's ick.
Kristal (35:08):
I think she's mostly using it from beloved dead or
those that she's had permission.
She doesn't just on anywilly-nilly person that she does
it, but she goes through thewhole ethical practice of it in
her book.
So definitely read that ifyou're curious about that part.
She also makes instruments andthings from bone, like she has a
bone flute that she uses tocall souls.
So she has a very differentpractice.
(35:29):
It's it's really quitebeautiful.
Um, I use grave dirt and gravedust.
So grave dirt is being takenfrom a grave, and I have a whole
ritual to go through to dothat.
And grave dust is using justlike a brush to brush the dust
off of headstones.
And so then when I do anecromantic circle, I have those
(35:51):
things on my altar that helpconnect me with the underworld
and connect me with the dead.
And of course, bones.
Bones for me, that's how I cameto bone reading.
As soon as I was around a bonereader and I had a full set in
front of me, all of the messagesthat were coming through from
(36:12):
spirit were just clean andclear.
And bones call to me now.
It's it's like a little conduitfor me to speak to the spirit
world to actually get clearmessages from Eidolon.
Nice.
Yeah.
Coffin nails I do use a lot.
I love coffin nails, especiallywhen I can get them that were
in someone's coffin and havebeen recovered.
(36:35):
Uh, because there's a bigconnection to the underworld.
So that really helps me in mypath of connecting to the
underworld and bringing bridgingbetween me and the underworld
to bring those pieces of soulback.
unknown (36:49):
Yeah.
Kristal (36:50):
So that's what all those tools are doing for me.
They're helping to create abridge between this world and
that world so that I can bringthings across.
Kate (36:58):
Nice.
They're like your uh ethericarchitecture.
That's very cool.
Yeah.
Kristal (37:03):
And then, of course, spirit boards, pendulum, any of
your divination can help inthose communication.
I find with my bones that Idon't really need all the things
I used to need.
It just channels it rightthrough the bones.
One of the things I wanted toshare is the difference in the
necromantic circle versus atraditional Wicca or spiritual
(37:23):
new age circle that you wouldcast is instead of just four
corners, you do all.
So you have north, northeast,east, southeast, south,
southwest, west, northwest,north.
Kate (37:38):
Because you don't want to fucking get lost in the
underworld.
Kristal (37:41):
No.
So your compass is far moresophisticated when you're there.
The anchor between the worldsneeds to be more solid to do the
work that we're doing too.
And each of the points lines upwith a part of the soul.
So you have the ethereal form,the verdure, the ceaseless one,
(38:02):
the character, the carnal form,vitality, the witness, and the
umbra.
And then because we are workingwith a lot of water in the
underworld, we are facing west.
And I've found that in prettymuch the Book of the Dead and
Mortellus's book.
So you can find them in a lotof those different places that
(38:25):
it's all facing west.
So that's our main altar.
Kate (38:29):
Yeah, what she's describing is her west is like
north for every other compass.
This image is oriented withwest at the top in the same way
we would see north at the top,just so you all have a visual
before you come and look at theimage.
Kristal (38:43):
Yeah.
Exactly.
And so I will do grave saltwith water instead of like in a
normal ritual, I would do waterand mix it with salt to create
my protections.
What I'm trying to consecratein a space for a necromantic
circle versus my basic Wiccancircle is I'm trying to create
(39:04):
an anchor for me in this worldso that I can travel safely to
the underworld and move throughit and still come back to my
life.
When you definitely want toanoint all nine points.
So the eight kind of cardinalpoints plus spirit, right?
And what's different is callingthe quarters.
(39:25):
You have eight.
So it's a little more involved.
There's eight differentquarters to call, or eights, as
it as you will.
So when I do my normal circle,I would invoke Earth and bring
it, right?
Come to me.
When we do necromantic, webanish Earth to cast the circle
and call the quarters becausewe're trying to let go of our
(39:48):
earthly and move into the realmof spirit.
So those are those are bigdifferences in working a
necromantic.
Another is we will consecrateourselves as dead to go walk
through the realm of the dead.
I don't find I have to do thisas much in my work as I imagine
those who do work like uhMortellus do need to because I
(40:09):
see them, because I do have thepsychic touch.
It's so it's a little bitdifferent.
But those who don't aren'tpsychic, aren't medium, this
would, this is a definite spaceto go.
And you're gonna use uh gravesalt or corpse water.
Um, I usually do grave dust andsalted water myself.
I don't feel like I have to gothat far.
And I throw that on each, soit's kind of like I'm letting go
(40:32):
of my body and moving intospirit.
And then we do offerings andlibation at this point versus at
the end, like we do on atraditional Wiccan ritual.
Like usually choose foods thatare for the dead I'm working
with, but if I'm just general,it's just flat wine or stale
bread, so somewhat tasteless.
And I set that aside for thedead, and then I take a toast to
(40:56):
the inhabitants of theunderworld.
So I say to the unseen ones whodwell beyond the veil, not lost
but changed, to Osiris whoguides the way, and to Hakate,
torchbearer at the crossroads,to the silent company who yet
hear our call, drink with me inshadow and in light.
So you like throw yourself amini funeral and then enter.
(41:19):
Yeah.
And then as we do any work andthen come back, we have to do a
consecration of life to comeback into the land of the
living, to be resurrected,right?
This is also probably wherestories of necromancers reviving
the dead come from.
Um, and so I do facing eastwith clean salt and water.
(41:40):
I sometimes use wine as wellbecause that connects with
hikate.
And I stir that together, andthen I do on my body, I am
revivified, touching the back ofmy neck.
And by this, my vitality isrestored, right?
And then I touch my throat,neutral, unwavering, cleansed of
(42:01):
all that that would do harm.
My hands chose this life, andthis life works only my will.
Bring myself back.
And it also, like one and thatvery part is like my hands chose
this life.
It's like this part of almostcleansing off any attachments,
right?
And I do that when I leave acemetery as well.
I do it when I leave bonereading, right?
(42:23):
So I'm just like, I'm revivedby this.
My vitality is restored,neutral, unwavering, cleansed of
all that that would do harm.
My hands chose this life, andthis life works my own life.
Very cool.
I think so.
Kate (42:38):
That's far more ceremony than I anticipated.
Kristal (42:41):
It is, and it feels honorific.
It feels very much in service.
And also when I'm coming backand I'm now reviving myself, I
have probably moved or touchedthree, four, maybe five souls
and brought them back tothemselves.
Sometimes only one if it'sdifficult, right?
(43:01):
They have a hard timeassimilating.
Right.
So sometimes I'll spend thatwhole time with one person, but
others I'm doing two or three.
So then when I come back, Iwant to get all of that stuff
off of me.
Like so only Kristal remains.
Kate (43:16):
Yeah.
I think I think possession isprobably people's greatest fear
around this.
Is like, well, what if theyoverpower me?
What if I don't have controlover whether or not they leave?
It would be mine.
Kristal (43:27):
I think big difference between kind of a channel and a
medium is you're calling thatinto you and it's moving through
you.
And as a necromancer, I'm not.
I am calling it to me.
It's outside of me.
It doesn't come into my body.
And I think that's a bigdistinction, possibly.
(43:47):
Right.
And so someone who is a naturalchannel like yourself might
need to do some more protectionswhen you go in than I do.
But I do have protections.
I always wear a hood and thatcovers my nerika, which is where
you enter the soul.
It covers the top of my head,my crown chakra.
(44:10):
And so I'm not gettingattached, I feel like.
Gown that I wear that has ahood that covers all of that.
I also put braids in my hairthat help confuse people and
spirits from being able toattach and then cleansing myself
afterwards.
Kate (44:26):
That makes sense.
Because my body is my tool, Iwould ingest.
I would just be like, well, I'mgonna cleanse you through me.
You know, whatever that wouldbe my instinct.
So I'm really, really glad thatyou um shared the whole
process, not just the funhighlights or whatever, because
it would be my firstinclination.
Like, well, I'm gonna let thatpass through me.
(44:48):
And then on the other side,it's ready to reintegrate with
you.
Don't worry about it.
That might not be wise.
Again, we have another Kateismwhere Kate just like walks right
into the water and is like, Idon't know, dissolve me.
But it would be my instinctbecause my body is the channel.
Thank you for saving me.
Kristal (45:09):
I don't let them pass through me.
I'm I tell them where to go andwhat to do.
That's the power of anecromancer.
I can command the ghost, thepiece of what to do and where to
go.
An example of things that catchme often, especially when I'm
driving and I see roadkill,right?
I see a raccoon on the side.
(45:29):
It's like I feel them just likethey have this violent end and
they're stuck.
And I just have a little ritualI do even as I'm driving past
them to guide them.
Like it's okay to let go and gohere.
So I when I pass a cemetery, Ifeel calm and peaceful.
Because most of them have movedon.
(45:51):
They're not really hangingaround there.
They're hanging around people.
They want to be close to theliving.
And as a necromancer, I get theprivilege to bring them closer
to the living.
Oh, that feels like a goodending.
Kate (46:03):
It does.
Thank you for sharing this.
This has been an amazinginsight into who you are and
what your practice is and alsounderstanding ways that I can
overlap and support as well.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Kristal (46:18):
I am going to do a necromantic ritual live on
November 1st here in Kitsap atBremerton.
So you can find thatinformation on my website for
those who are local.
And I will probably do somestuff on my own social media
around that.
So you'll be able to check thatand I can share it over to
Witching Out Loud as well.
(46:38):
All right.
I've got it blocked out on mycalendar.
I'm going to absolutely bethere with my Persephone.
Go talk to Eidolon and dowitchy shit.
Thanks for listening toWitching Out Loud.
You can find us at Witching OutLoud on Instagram.
Follow us for highlights,reminders, witchy tips, and
(46:59):
seasonal celebrations.
And share with us how you arewitching out loud.
Until next time, do witchyshit.
Hail and welcome to Witching Out Loud, the short
form podcast where we celebratethe art of witchcraft and
finding magic in your dailylife.
Join us for a cozy chat aboutwitchy ways and practical
woo-woo.
Kristal (00:16):
I'm Kristal of Unveiled, Necromancer and
Spiritual Mindset Coach.
Kate (00:21):
And I'm Kate with Priestess for Hire and an
intuitive tarot reader.
In an earlier episode, we talkedabout shamanism, which is
something I strongly align with.
And today we're going to chatabout necromancy, Kristal's
primary calling.
This is not animating the deadas portrayed in popular media.
(00:41):
This is communicating with thedead and facilitating them in
their afterlife.
Today we'll cover what isnecromancy, the underworld and
the tools of the necromancer,and necromantic ritual.
Kristal (01:10):
So that's a good combo for the underworld.
But choose your poison.
Enter yourself into yourmeditative state however you get
there.
And then once you're in thismeditative state, I want you to
(01:33):
see the world tree on yourmind's eye in front of you.
Walk towards the world tree,and that door appears for you to
go down into the world tree,into your soul home.
Come deep into the soul seat ofyour body, of your soul.
(02:00):
Once you arrive in this space,ask for the door to the
underworld.
You see the door up here, youmay see some symbols, some
colors.
For me, it is black with gold,an etching and an onk.
(02:22):
Step through that door knowingyou are safe in these travels,
and at any time you may call forHekate to guide you and shine
her light for you.
As you walk forward, the wayopens into a cave.
(02:42):
You are traveling down the AxisMundi, the soul of the world.
Deeper into the underworld youmove.
As you're walking, notice anyof the sights, the sounds that
appear around you.
(03:03):
How does it feel differently?
As you walk, you come upon acrossroads, and a figure appears
with torches on either side andblack hounds at her feet.
Hakate is here.
(03:25):
Ask her to guide you into theunderworld.
She turns and heads deeper intothe underworld, her torches
lighting the way.
Follow her.
She beckons you into your innerworld.
She leads you to a river.
(03:49):
There is a boat.
Hekate waves you onto the boat.
The boat begins moving of itsown accord, floating easily down
the river.
Your boat will bring you to aplace that you are meant to be
on this trip.
(04:10):
Notice the lands as you movethrough.
If you feel called to an area,your boat will naturally pause
for you to step out of the boatand explore this space,
remembering that you are safehere.
You may find yourself in thegroves of Persephone, the
(04:37):
gateway of Hakate, the blessedfields, the land of dreams, the
halls of night, Tartarus, Duat,maybe the fields of the
(04:58):
indifferent dead.
Who do you find here?
Is it a guide?
Is it an ancestor?
A deity?
Speak with them and ask whatyou were brought to this place
to understand.
What knowledge can you bringback with you?
(05:18):
And when you are complete,thank your guide, your ancestor,
the deity that you werespeaking with.
Move back to your boat, stepin, and it will bring you back
(05:41):
to the gateway with Hekate.
And she will guide you back tothis realm.
Coming back to this realm.
Coming back to your soul home.
Coming back through the worldtree.
(06:03):
Back to your body.
Clearing and balancing in anyway that you need to.
Kate (06:26):
I can't even talk about half of what just happened.
Uh-huh.
Kristal (06:30):
Some of it's secret, but it's quite a it usually is
when it's the underworld.
Kate (06:37):
Mm-hmm.
Uh, but Persephone psychopompt,and Hekate met us there.
And then we went somewherespecial to me.
And these deer showed up, theseblack deer.
And I'm not really entirelysure what they were for, but
they were, they just kind oflike materialized out of the
forest and then kind of circledaround Persephone and Hikate and
(07:00):
me, and just were like, we wesee you, you know, we know who
you are, and we're with you.
Do you know anything about deerin that underworld place?
Kristal (07:10):
Well, deer in general are about growth.
They're about life, they'reabout abundance.
And in the underworld, that'sno different.
It's just a different plane,but that they're black, like
there's some growth for you inthere.
And you could follow them tofind where that growth is.
So usually when animals appearto me, and for me, I'm I'm with
(07:32):
Hakate.
So it's usually a black dog.
It usually looks much like myblack dog, but he's kind of
ghosty, like moves more like thedog in Nightmare Before
Christmas.
Totally the image I had.
And I follow him towards likewhere I need to be, um, and is a
(07:54):
guide.
So they could be a guide foryou in the underworld on where
your growth is.
Kate (07:59):
Nice.
Okay.
Thanks.
Okay.
Okay.
Kristal (08:03):
Welcome to the underworld, Kate.
Kate (08:05):
For real.
I don't think I've everactually consciously on
purposely gone there.
Yeah.
Kristal (08:11):
Most people don't because it's ingrained in our
minds and our hearts and ourculture that down and underworld
and dark is evil, is hell, isfire and brimstone.
No one goes there willingly.
And that's not the underworld.
(08:32):
I want to tell a little bit ofmy story and how I came to
necromancy before I jump intowhat necromancy is, because I
think it helps dispel some ofthe myths along the story and
the blockages that come up inour brains around it.
Because I think I've said thison other episodes.
I am a Taurus, I'm Venus, I amlife, I am a gardener, I am an
(08:56):
herbalist, I am all greenthings, happy, pretty much love
and light.
But deep in my soul is thisdark darkness.
And I think I was always thisreally growth love and light
piece because I was trying tobalance that.
And as I've continued tobalance that, I don't feel the
need for one over the otheranymore.
(09:17):
So it's interesting that thenecromancy has come forward.
And I was feeling uh Hekatecalling me towards something.
And this all happened about twoyears ago as I was working
through some trauma andrecovering some personal
memories.
And recovering those memoriesunlocked a piece of my magic.
(09:38):
And it was the necromancy.
And I didn't understand it.
I didn't know what washappening.
And so I went to a reader.
Uh, I was at Crescent Moon inTacoma, and they were having
like a spiritual fair.
And this gal had this beautifulset that was an astrology
wheel, and then she had allthese crystals and stones.
And you picked a certain amountof crystals and stones.
(10:01):
It's very much like bonereading, and then you toss them
onto the mat and they fall intothe different astrological
houses and things like that.
So I got a reading from her,and um, she kept saying, I I
feel like uh there's a goddesshere.
Uh, I think it's Hekate.
And she was worried that I wasgonna freak out that it was
Hekate, and I'm like, Oh, yeah,yeah, I work with her all the
(10:22):
time.
And she's like, Oh, okay, good.
Uh and then she goes on, seethat chick.
She's like, I think she'sasking you to be like a death
doula.
And so I was like, Okay, likeit didn't ping in my soul.
So I did a little research.
I'm like, what does a deathdoula do?
And I'm like, I don't want tosit at the bedside of dying
(10:44):
people.
I said, Hekate, I respectfullydecline.
And respect she's like, Yeah,she's like, come do a journey
with me.
So I got all set up.
She gave me some guidelines onwhat to do, and so I set up the
incense that she told me, thealtar, everything, and went on
this journey with her.
And she took me to theunderworld for the first time.
(11:06):
And unbeknownst to me was notthe first time.
So I went on this journey withher.
When I woke up from thisjourney, it was two hours later.
And I did not fall asleep.
Kate (11:20):
Holy shit.
Kristal (11:20):
I was gone for a long time.
I was exhausted, I wasstarving.
It was really intense.
And that's when she made itunderstood to me that she said,
I didn't say death doula, I saidnecromancer, and let me show
you what that means.
And so she took me on thiswhole tour of the underworld,
was introduced to Hades andPersephone, and they're like,
(11:43):
Finally she's back.
And I'm like, What do you meanI'm back?
Right?
And so this is what I say whenI say the old magics are coming
back into the world.
Our old magics are coming backto us.
So in a past life, I was anecromancer, full-blown, and not
necessarily a good person.
(12:05):
It was a tough one.
And to make an example, likeHades took me to some places
within the underworld, and hetook me to where all the souls
kind of are kept.
And he's like, This time, youdon't touch anything here.
This is not for you, right?
(12:27):
You prove to me that youdeserve to be here.
So I uh fucked something up.
It was a past me.
I'm like, it wasn't me.
He's like, I'm watching you.
And I feel like this is some ofthe ways that necromancy got
this bad rap.
I was male in that incarnation.
Um, and it was power.
(12:47):
It was about power and ego.
And necromancers not only spokewith the dead in those times,
they commanded them for theirown thing.
Kate (12:58):
That animation story comes from that we have today.
Kristal (13:02):
Exactly.
And they weren't necessarilygreat about it.
They would tie the dead totheir will, bind them to them
for their purposes, which makessense why I have so much
struggle with that in mypractice now of binding or
commanding demons or things ofthat nature, because I messed
(13:23):
that up once before, and Iapparently my soul remembers not
to go down that road.
And it helped to learn why, whyI had such an aversion to it.
It's not that I don't do it,but it takes a lot to get me
there.
And I always make sure my ego'snot involved.
Always before I get started.
(13:45):
So it makes so much sense.
Persephone's this was where Istarted building a relationship
with Persephone at that timebecause she was like poo-pooing
Hades almost.
Like, she's not gonna do thatthis time because she's her,
right?
She's not him.
And Hekate's like, I'm teachingher.
So you guys need to get onboard.
(14:06):
I'm teaching her.
And she started taking methrough and teaching me some of
the things I'll share in ourepisode.
And then I came across, Istarted doing research.
So a lot of the stuff that I'mgonna talk about came from the
Egyptian Book of the Dead, whichis a series of 12 or 8 books.
Don't quote me.
So it's only one book of all ofthem, but it's about the
(14:30):
funerary rites and rituals ofthe dead.
Very fascinating stuff.
And then actually, one of ourlisteners and a friend of mine
said, I came across this book.
And it's The Bones Fall in aSpiral, a necromantic primer.
So this is a more modern one.
And this is by Mortellus.
She is a mortician and anecromancer.
(14:52):
Fabulous book.
If anyone is interested innecromancy, definitely grab her
book.
So I started doing some moreresearch because everything was
personal gnosis and thesejourneys I was going on with uh
Hikate.
And I was like, I started toget really nervous.
And then uncovering that pastlife really helped me understand
why I was so nervous.
And I'm like, I'm gonna messthis up again.
(15:14):
And I'm like, why, why do Ihave these feelings?
So I started reading her bookand then saw maps of the
underworld.
I was like, this is real.
Like this other person I'venever met in my life or talked
to is seeing the same things I'mseeing.
So this is really real.
Um, so it's fantastic to havethat.
No, it's not just yourimagination.
(15:35):
Right.
So let's talk about that's kindof how I I am.
I am not an expert innecromancy.
I would say Mortellis isdefinitely an expert in
necromancy.
So take some classes from her,grab her books.
Um I am a newbie.
So this is what I'm new at, andreally working it very
(15:58):
differently, I think, than otherpeople are, because of what
Hekate has tasked me to do.
So a necromancer is simplysomeone who does divination
through consultation with thedead.
And uh, got this term fromMortellus's idolon, which is a
term that means specter orphantasm.
And I really like that becauseI don't see like a dead person
(16:22):
doesn't just appear to melooking like Kate staring at me
through the computer screen.
It's uh whispers of a person,it's a shadow of a person.
It looks like a phantasm or aspecter, but that feels very
horror movie kind of feel to it.
And so when I came across thatword Eidolon, I really love it.
(16:44):
And I feel that the spiritsthat I'm working with have more
respect from it.
Yeah, and I interactdifferently.
Yes, absolutely.
E-I D-O-L-O-N.
Kate (16:55):
Absolutely was not typing that correctly from the start.
That way we can all find this.
Yeah, I had to do the samething.
So it's been it's been a biglearning curve for me.
But it's all about this beliefin the dead that they have an
existence beyond life.
And I know that I've seenspirits and Eidolon my whole
(17:20):
life, but I couldn't control itnecessarily.
Today, I can control it andwhen I want to speak to them and
when I do not.
And I can control it in a bonereading when I'm in the middle
of a wine bar doing a bonereading for someone and their
ancestors come through.
I can get those messages tothem now.
(17:40):
And that's because of thisstudy in necromancy.
So I have found it now to be avery beautiful path.
And I was very scared of itwalking in.
And I think all thislife-giving Taurian energy that
I have blended with thenecromancy gives it so much
depth and life.
(18:01):
So I I'm really excited to beon this path and sharing it with
everybody today.
Fantastic.
Thank you.
And yeah, it isservice-oriented, it's a
service-oriented uh ministry oftalking to the spirits and
giving voice to the dead thatcan comfort the living.
(18:23):
Right.
When I have someone sittingacross from me getting a bone
reading, and their father who'srecently passed, comes through
and I just simply say they'rehere and they love you, like the
amount of comfort that comes tosomeone in that moment, it's a
(18:44):
service.
And I feel honored that I getto do that.
And so if I'm stilted as I gothrough it, it's because I fight
with my past kind of lifenature, going, no, I shouldn't
be doing this.
One of the cool things that Ilearned, actually, before I step
into that, you don't have to bepsychic or a medium to practice
(19:05):
necromancy.
You can learn necromancy.
And uh Mortellis talks about,especially those who have
touched death.
So you've had a near-deathexperience, a major trauma,
things of that nature can bringyou really close to the
underworld and then thereby giveyou more of a connection.
But she shares lots of rituals.
(19:25):
There's lots of books thatshare lots of rituals that can
help you connect more and you donot have to be psychic or
medium to do the work.
Right.
And I make a distinctionbetween a medium and a
necromancer.
A medium to me is someone whoreceives communication, right?
They kind of get downloads,much like a channel.
They get a download of thatinformation.
(19:47):
A necromancer calls it forth.
And it's where I get in thatsticky space of, oh, should I be
commanding them?
And that's where a lot of mybeliefs around banishing and
commanding are not necessarilyharsh.
They are clear communication,right?
(20:10):
And so that helps me move intothat.
So I think that's thedistinction between the medium
and that.
And the other thing that Ifound fascinating is before
Christianity changed thenarrative on souls, that we have
one soul, we believed that thesoul was made up of a lot of
parts, like multiple pieces ofus.
(20:30):
And when I'm working withspirits, that's what I find,
right?
It's not the whole person.
Yeah, it's not the whole personthat appears in front of me.
It's one facet of that person,which explains a lot in
spirituality how Hikate can bewith me, but also with you.
And we have a similar butdifferent experience, right?
(20:51):
It's like those entities, thoseenergies, they're not one
piece.
I agree.
It and it I think it's reallyimportant for us to to pause in
this moment and like really dowhatever work is necessary to
allow yourself to sink into thatbecause I experience so much
variety in the woo.
And I work with deities thatother people have very different
(21:12):
interpretations of, and itreally can't invalidate either
of us.
We're still having theexperience we're having.
And I don't feel eloquent rightnow about it, but it is just
really important to begin toaccept multiplicity.
Yeah.
The fact that a bazilliontimelines can exist, right?
Even even beyond just the oneand the two, but like 700,000
(21:35):
million timelines are existingat the same time.
So if you're having onePersephone and they're having
another Persephone, it's just adifferent timeline where a
different thing came todifferent conclusions.
And anyway, I just my mind isnot completely wrapped around it
yet.
But it was a really importantmoment of like, because I come
from absolutism in Christianity.
(21:56):
There is one God and one way tobe, and we have the truth on
it.
Fuck no.
Kristal (22:00):
Yeah.
The world is almost never blackand white.
Kate (22:03):
Right.
There are a hundred millionbazillion gods and seven hundred
thousand million ways just forthat god to express itself in
her own way.
So do whatever shadow worknecessary to begin to accept and
open yourself to multiplicity.
Kristal (22:17):
Yeah.
Kate (22:17):
Well said.
Okay.
Sorry.
Commercial break ended.
Kristal (22:20):
And just start with your soul is lots of pieces.
It's not just one big chunk.
And I, you know, when you startlooking at it that way, past
lives make more sense.
It's like, how could how couldthis person be connected to that
person?
Well, it's not.
There was other parts that thatwere connected to this part
over here.
And so, yeah, it's just it canbe a little bit of a mind fuck,
(22:43):
but a cool mind fuck.
Kate (22:45):
Well, and to add to the mind fuck, I'm listening to the
Dolores Cannon books.
She's just changing my world.
So glad she got to exist and togive us what we what we have
from her.
You can imprint, you can gointo the Akashic Records and you
can ask for these differentlives to be imprinted upon you
for this incarnation so that youcome in with that knowledge and
experience.
(23:05):
So you can manifest knowledgeand experience of lifetimes you
didn't even actually live,because it's just a library, and
we can also take thatknowledge.
And so it further should notinvalidate your experience to
think that there are you andsomeone else can both have
memories of being Cleopatrabecause one of you, or 10,000 of
(23:26):
you, downloaded that lifetimeand imprinted it on this
incarnation so that you wouldhave access to her experience.
It doesn't mean that someone isthe true Cleopatra and someone
else is not.
Yeah, well said.
Kristal (23:39):
When you brought up the um Akashic Records, I will put
this on our social media, butthere's this cool map that is
from the Bones Fall in a Spiral.
And she kind of mapped how thedifferent planes of reality work
together.
And you have like thecollective unconscious, which is
where our Akashic records arethe dreaming, the astral plane,
(24:00):
the realms of deity, and ofcourse the kingdom of the dead.
So it reminded me of how thosethings kind of move together,
and they're not, it's not likeupper world is up and underworld
is down.
It's more that they're on thesame field, the same plane.
They're just kind of Venndiagrammed together.
(24:22):
So it's not, even though wecall it underworld and upper
world, that's that's not quitehow it works.
So I love calling it thekingdom of the dead and trying
to switch my um verbiage fromunderworld to that, because I
think it helps dispel some ofthose myths too.
Right.
Um, things that thenecromancers do, other than
(24:45):
obviously giving voice to thedead and hope to those living,
uh, they can help assist thedead on their journey to the
underworld.
And this is where most of mywork is is assisting those that
are lost to find their way.
And my work is a littledifferent, and I haven't found
this in any necromantic text, isa little bit of an, I guess, a
(25:07):
necromantic shaman of becauseI'm doing soul retrieval of
sorts, but they're the soulspieces that are stuck in the
underworld, and I bring thoseback.
So, and I I do it willy-nilly.
I don't always do it like Katedoesn't come to me and say, go
find this piece.
It's I find a lost piece whileI'm journeying and I ask if it
(25:30):
wants to go home, and then Ibring it home, and then I ask
the person, their highest self,and it's people I don't know.
I ask them if if they want thispiece back, and this is where
it was lost.
And do they want it back?
And I bring it back to them.
So if you woke up one morningand you're like, How did I
remember this?
Why do I feel sad about this?
(25:50):
Or why do I feel more complete?
Could have been me.
Kate (25:53):
Could have been.
Feel free to tell me anytimeyou come across my parts and
pieces laying about.
I have a picture of you as alitter patrol.
And you're like, found a piece.
Okay, I'm the soul then and putit in the bag.
Just walking around litteringthe underworld with pieces and
parts of ourselves trailingbehind us, you know, and you're
like, fuck's sake, people.
(26:14):
Oh my gosh.
Kristal (26:17):
This is the work Hekate wants me to do.
And when she brought me throughthese pieces, and I saw how
many of these fragments were inthe underworld, it was me,
Hekate, uh, Persephone, andHades.
And he said, they don't belonghere.
They're not like the underworldwas never meant to house this
(26:38):
many fragments of people, butthis is stuffing your darkness
down.
This we're stuffing it intothese dark places and never
going back for it.
And that's why she's callingforth the necromancers to assist
in this work.
So I am working to document mywork and write a book on this
(27:00):
process.
That's where I veer from othernecromancers is this new
process.
When I look at someone likeMortellis, who's a mortician,
makes so much sense.
She has so much reverence forthe dead.
I and there's a lot of servicein that at least.
And that is a classicnecromantic path.
I do want to say the dead in mybelief are not all-knowing.
(27:24):
Just like I don't believespirits, guides, ancestors are
all knowing.
We don't die and all of asudden become God.
Like we're not all-knowingomnipotent, we're still flawed.
Kate (27:38):
I think it's a big fallacy that we're taught that the
other side is omniscience.
This is the the only reasonthat we're not omniscient is
because we're alive and that'sit.
No, they are not omniscient.
I don't care what purpose theyhave, unless they are source,
they're really not omniscient,actually.
Kristal (27:53):
Yeah.
So it's really hard to accept.
Verify the information that youget, right?
The same, like go back to thespirit episode on elements.
We also did another episode,maybe on divination.
It was divination.
Kate (28:06):
And we talked about you can expect to meet on the other
side to uh guides and allows.
And how to verify.
Kristal (28:14):
So definitely do that.
And also another big fear I hadis, you know, the abusers that
are dead.
Yeah, you can block them fromcoming through too.
Like you don't have to confrontthem, you don't have to have
them in your space.
You can say, you know, no onewho has harmed me in life gets
access to me on the other planeeither.
(28:36):
So those are two big fears Iwanted to lay to rest.
I want to talk about what itlooks like in the underworld.
And this was the part that Iloved.
And I did put a map and I'll umput that out there.
This is it most looks like theGreek interpretation of the
underworld to me when I gothere.
But there is this access to allthese different places that I
(28:58):
can get to.
So I can also get to Duat,which is more of the Egyptian
space.
And when you're looking atthis, there's all these rivers.
So it made so much sense when Isaw this photo.
I was like, God, why is thereso much friggin' water in the
underworld?
It's just rivers.
It's all freaking everythingtogether.
Yep, exactly.
And so when I went on a journeyafter recovering some memories
(29:24):
and realizing there was a bigpiece of my soul that was in the
underworld and trapped, I cameinto the underworld and I found
myself in the like what would belike the Stygian marsh.
It's just like this black,inky, swampy pond that's just
(29:45):
feeding into the river ofmemory, which is where we go to
lose all of our memories of ourpast life before we were reborn
again.
And myself was broken andcovered in that kind of tar
black dirt.
And I pulled myself out andpulled all of that off of
myself.
(30:05):
It was really intense.
And I brought her back with meto my soul home.
We are still not integrated.
It's almost a split personalityfeel, but we're working on it.
And that is where I learned theprocess was by doing it on
myself.
And I've recovered other piecesthat were not quite so
(30:28):
dramatic, but that is probablywhere I got such a connection to
the underworld because part ofme's been there most of my life.
And she still hangs out there.
She is most comfortable there.
Kate (30:41):
Yeah, she's infused.
She's steeped, like a littleteabag.
Kristal (30:45):
She's like this over here.
And so for me, when I went downthere and started exploring,
and especially because I spend alot of time there with myself,
um, who lives there, I reallywanted to kind of map it out and
understand it because I feel soat peace when I'm there.
(31:07):
When other people talk aboutheaven, that to me is the
underworld.
It's this peace.
It's not all dark, it's notfire and brimstone.
There are groves, there aregardens, there are ponds and
streams and waterfalls.
All of that exists there too.
It's just, and it's probablyfor my neurodivergent little
(31:29):
brain, it's all muted.
So there's like it's like ashade of gray over it, like the
cloudy gray northwestern skyfeel to the whole thing.
Kate (31:42):
Yeah, that's how it felt when you were leading us through
it earlier.
And it feels like it's just thesaturation is toned down so
that it's less stimulating.
We don't have to beoverstimulated by those data
points because we need to bereceptive to different data
points while we're there.
So the saturation is justturned down a little.
Exactly.
Kristal (32:00):
Um, so I wanted to share that a little bit before I
jumped into some of the toolsof the necromancer.
Um, obviously, Hekate is acentral figure in necromancy and
probably the main figure ofnecromancy.
I did not know that, and Iworked with her for a long time.
She's the crossroads, she'storches, she's got that
(32:21):
psychopomp role of guiding.
So I am a torchbearer forHekate.
So I am a guide that helpsguide those through the
underworld.
I feel more every day, more ifI could spend more time on it.
Mercury is also tied withnecromancy because he's also a
guide of souls and sometimescomes alongside Hekate.
(32:42):
And it was so interesting to methe first time Mercury came
alongside.
And it was like he was verynon-binary, somewhat effeminate,
and I thought it was Nike, andhe was so offended.
Yeah.
Um, and so I haven't done a tonof work with Mercury, but am
(33:03):
becoming acquainted with Mercurybecause what he does really
well is helps me messenger thosesouls back to people.
Like he has that skill andability.
So I need to do that.
Kate (33:16):
Sorry.
Now I just had an image of himyeeting souls.
You and him being like, off yougo, yeet that shit, yeet soul.
Kristal (33:26):
Goofball.
The underworld is the realmthat's overseen by gods of death
and liminality, and it'sinhabited by the dead.
It's not just inhabited by thebad people, it is inhabited by
all dead.
The Elysian fields are in theunderworld.
(33:47):
They're not in a heaven.
I'm not Christian.
All dead to me are in theunderworld.
They're just in a differentpart.
It's like a theme park that,like, this one over here is a
whole world unto itself, andthis one over here is a whole
world unto itself, and they'rejust connected through a liminal
(34:08):
space.
Just depending on your life,who you were and where you were,
is where you go to in theunderworld.
But all dead are there.
Um, tools for necromancers,grave salt.
So I will make grave salt bytaking the kind of shavings from
a headstone and mixing thatwith salt.
(34:29):
All ethically sourced.
I don't just wander around toeveryone's headstone.
It has to be someone I know orthat a spirit has invited me to
that grave site.
Mortellus uses corpse water.
So literally, as she's washingher beloved dead, she saves that
water.
I think in the type of workthat she does and classic
(34:51):
necromancy, it's probablyneeded.
She also uses sutures or sutureneedles that were used on the
dead.
Kate (34:59):
Yeah, I can see how it'd be imbued with an incredible
amount of power.
My first instinct is I don'twant to get stuck with someone
else's ick.
Kristal (35:08):
I think she's mostly using it from beloved dead or
those that she's had permission.
She doesn't just on anywilly-nilly person that she does
it, but she goes through thewhole ethical practice of it in
her book.
So definitely read that ifyou're curious about that part.
She also makes instruments andthings from bone, like she has a
bone flute that she uses tocall souls.
So she has a very differentpractice.
(35:29):
It's it's really quitebeautiful.
Um, I use grave dirt and gravedust.
So grave dirt is being takenfrom a grave, and I have a whole
ritual to go through to dothat.
And grave dust is using justlike a brush to brush the dust
off of headstones.
And so then when I do anecromantic circle, I have those
(35:51):
things on my altar that helpconnect me with the underworld
and connect me with the dead.
And of course, bones.
Bones for me, that's how I cameto bone reading.
As soon as I was around a bonereader and I had a full set in
front of me, all of the messagesthat were coming through from
(36:12):
spirit were just clean andclear.
And bones call to me now.
It's it's like a little conduitfor me to speak to the spirit
world to actually get clearmessages from Eidolon.
Nice.
Yeah.
Coffin nails I do use a lot.
I love coffin nails, especiallywhen I can get them that were
in someone's coffin and havebeen recovered.
(36:35):
Uh, because there's a bigconnection to the underworld.
So that really helps me in mypath of connecting to the
underworld and bringing bridgingbetween me and the underworld
to bring those pieces of soulback.
unknown (36:49):
Yeah.
Kristal (36:50):
So that's what all those tools are doing for me.
They're helping to create abridge between this world and
that world so that I can bringthings across.
Kate (36:58):
Nice.
They're like your uh ethericarchitecture.
That's very cool.
Yeah.
Kristal (37:03):
And then, of course, spirit boards, pendulum, any of
your divination can help inthose communication.
I find with my bones that Idon't really need all the things
I used to need.
It just channels it rightthrough the bones.
One of the things I wanted toshare is the difference in the
necromantic circle versus atraditional Wicca or spiritual
(37:23):
new age circle that you wouldcast is instead of just four
corners, you do all.
So you have north, northeast,east, southeast, south,
southwest, west, northwest,north.
Kate (37:38):
Because you don't want to fucking get lost in the
underworld.
Kristal (37:41):
No.
So your compass is far moresophisticated when you're there.
The anchor between the worldsneeds to be more solid to do the
work that we're doing too.
And each of the points lines upwith a part of the soul.
So you have the ethereal form,the verdure, the ceaseless one,
(38:02):
the character, the carnal form,vitality, the witness, and the
umbra.
And then because we are workingwith a lot of water in the
underworld, we are facing west.
And I've found that in prettymuch the Book of the Dead and
Mortellus's book.
So you can find them in a lotof those different places that
(38:25):
it's all facing west.
So that's our main altar.
Kate (38:29):
Yeah, what she's describing is her west is like
north for every other compass.
This image is oriented withwest at the top in the same way
we would see north at the top,just so you all have a visual
before you come and look at theimage.
Kristal (38:43):
Yeah.
Exactly.
And so I will do grave saltwith water instead of like in a
normal ritual, I would do waterand mix it with salt to create
my protections.
What I'm trying to consecratein a space for a necromantic
circle versus my basic Wiccancircle is I'm trying to create
(39:04):
an anchor for me in this worldso that I can travel safely to
the underworld and move throughit and still come back to my
life.
When you definitely want toanoint all nine points.
So the eight kind of cardinalpoints plus spirit, right?
And what's different is callingthe quarters.
(39:25):
You have eight.
So it's a little more involved.
There's eight differentquarters to call, or eights, as
it as you will.
So when I do my normal circle,I would invoke Earth and bring
it, right?
Come to me.
When we do necromantic, webanish Earth to cast the circle
and call the quarters becausewe're trying to let go of our
(39:48):
earthly and move into the realmof spirit.
So those are those are bigdifferences in working a
necromantic.
Another is we will consecrateourselves as dead to go walk
through the realm of the dead.
I don't find I have to do thisas much in my work as I imagine
those who do work like uhMortellus do need to because I
(40:09):
see them, because I do have thepsychic touch.
It's so it's a little bitdifferent.
But those who don't aren'tpsychic, aren't medium, this
would, this is a definite spaceto go.
And you're gonna use uh gravesalt or corpse water.
Um, I usually do grave dust andsalted water myself.
I don't feel like I have to gothat far.
And I throw that on each, soit's kind of like I'm letting go
(40:32):
of my body and moving intospirit.
And then we do offerings andlibation at this point versus at
the end, like we do on atraditional Wiccan ritual.
Like usually choose foods thatare for the dead I'm working
with, but if I'm just general,it's just flat wine or stale
bread, so somewhat tasteless.
And I set that aside for thedead, and then I take a toast to
(40:56):
the inhabitants of theunderworld.
So I say to the unseen ones whodwell beyond the veil, not lost
but changed, to Osiris whoguides the way, and to Hakate,
torchbearer at the crossroads,to the silent company who yet
hear our call, drink with me inshadow and in light.
So you like throw yourself amini funeral and then enter.
(41:19):
Yeah.
And then as we do any work andthen come back, we have to do a
consecration of life to comeback into the land of the
living, to be resurrected,right?
This is also probably wherestories of necromancers reviving
the dead come from.
Um, and so I do facing eastwith clean salt and water.
(41:40):
I sometimes use wine as wellbecause that connects with
hikate.
And I stir that together, andthen I do on my body, I am
revivified, touching the back ofmy neck.
And by this, my vitality isrestored, right?
And then I touch my throat,neutral, unwavering, cleansed of
(42:01):
all that that would do harm.
My hands chose this life, andthis life works only my will.
Bring myself back.
And it also, like one and thatvery part is like my hands chose
this life.
It's like this part of almostcleansing off any attachments,
right?
And I do that when I leave acemetery as well.
I do it when I leave bonereading, right?
(42:23):
So I'm just like, I'm revivedby this.
My vitality is restored,neutral, unwavering, cleansed of
all that that would do harm.
My hands chose this life, andthis life works my own life.
Very cool.
I think so.
Kate (42:38):
That's far more ceremony than I anticipated.
Kristal (42:41):
It is, and it feels honorific.
It feels very much in service.
And also when I'm coming backand I'm now reviving myself, I
have probably moved or touchedthree, four, maybe five souls
and brought them back tothemselves.
Sometimes only one if it'sdifficult, right?
(43:01):
They have a hard timeassimilating.
Right.
So sometimes I'll spend thatwhole time with one person, but
others I'm doing two or three.
So then when I come back, Iwant to get all of that stuff
off of me.
Like so only Kristal remains.
Kate (43:16):
Yeah.
I think I think possession isprobably people's greatest fear
around this.
Is like, well, what if theyoverpower me?
What if I don't have controlover whether or not they leave?
It would be mine.
Kristal (43:27):
I think big difference between kind of a channel and a
medium is you're calling thatinto you and it's moving through
you.
And as a necromancer, I'm not.
I am calling it to me.
It's outside of me.
It doesn't come into my body.
And I think that's a bigdistinction, possibly.
(43:47):
Right.
And so someone who is a naturalchannel like yourself might
need to do some more protectionswhen you go in than I do.
But I do have protections.
I always wear a hood and thatcovers my nerika, which is where
you enter the soul.
It covers the top of my head,my crown chakra.
(44:10):
And so I'm not gettingattached, I feel like.
Gown that I wear that has ahood that covers all of that.
I also put braids in my hairthat help confuse people and
spirits from being able toattach and then cleansing myself
afterwards.
Kate (44:26):
That makes sense.
Because my body is my tool, Iwould ingest.
I would just be like, well, I'mgonna cleanse you through me.
You know, whatever that wouldbe my instinct.
So I'm really, really glad thatyou um shared the whole
process, not just the funhighlights or whatever, because
it would be my firstinclination.
Like, well, I'm gonna let thatpass through me.
(44:48):
And then on the other side,it's ready to reintegrate with
you.
Don't worry about it.
That might not be wise.
Again, we have another Kateismwhere Kate just like walks right
into the water and is like, Idon't know, dissolve me.
But it would be my instinctbecause my body is the channel.
Thank you for saving me.
Kristal (45:09):
I don't let them pass through me.
I'm I tell them where to go andwhat to do.
That's the power of anecromancer.
I can command the ghost, thepiece of what to do and where to
go.
An example of things that catchme often, especially when I'm
driving and I see roadkill,right?
I see a raccoon on the side.
(45:29):
It's like I feel them just likethey have this violent end and
they're stuck.
And I just have a little ritualI do even as I'm driving past
them to guide them.
Like it's okay to let go and gohere.
So I when I pass a cemetery, Ifeel calm and peaceful.
Because most of them have movedon.
(45:51):
They're not really hangingaround there.
They're hanging around people.
They want to be close to theliving.
And as a necromancer, I get theprivilege to bring them closer
to the living.
Oh, that feels like a goodending.
Kate (46:03):
It does.
Thank you for sharing this.
This has been an amazinginsight into who you are and
what your practice is and alsounderstanding ways that I can
overlap and support as well.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Kristal (46:18):
I am going to do a necromantic ritual live on
November 1st here in Kitsap atBremerton.
So you can find thatinformation on my website for
those who are local.
And I will probably do somestuff on my own social media
around that.
So you'll be able to check thatand I can share it over to
Witching Out Loud as well.
(46:38):
All right.
I've got it blocked out on mycalendar.
I'm going to absolutely bethere with my Persephone.
Go talk to Eidolon and dowitchy shit.
Thanks for listening toWitching Out Loud.
You can find us at Witching OutLoud on Instagram.
Follow us for highlights,reminders, witchy tips, and
(46:59):
seasonal celebrations.
And share with us how you arewitching out loud.
Until next time, do witchyshit.
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