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October 10, 2025 53 mins

Download the Adaptive Cardio Workshop, cardio planning guide, training templates, and get a custom nutrition plan at live.witsandweights.com/adaptive-cardio

Can cardio really kill your gains? What if the truth is the exact opposite? Could you actually build muscle and endurance at the same time, without sacrificing either?

I am joined by Kris Gethin, a pro bodybuilder, Ironman finisher, and endurance athlete, to destroy the myth that “cardio ruins muscle.” Kris shares how he transformed from a 220-pound bodybuilder to a full Ironman in six months without losing his physique. We unpack the real science of hybrid training, how to combine strength and cardio effectively, and why recovery, not training volume, is what really determines your success. 

Tune in to learn how cardio and lifting can finally work together, not against each other.

Today, you’ll learn all about:

2:24 – Kris’s asthma story and recovery breakthrough
7:45 – How hybrid training changed the game
14:28 – Building recovery into your lifestyle
21:02 – Grounding, mindfulness, and HRV
26:58 – Key running, cycling, and swimming tips
32:26 – Why sprinting beats long slow cardio
39:28 – Nutrition, fasting, and fueling for performance
47:02 – Squats, balance, and hybrid strength
51:04 – Hydration, sleep, and long-term health

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Philip Pape (00:01):
You've been told that adding cardio will kill
your gains.
Today's episode is about toprove otherwise.
The conventional wisdom saysyou can't build muscle and train
for endurance at the same time.
The fitness industry hasconvinced millions of lifters
that cardio is the enemy ofmuscle.
But what if the research andreal-world evidence shows that
that's completely wrong?
My guest today performed one ofthe most compelling experiments

(00:24):
in fitness history,transforming from competitive
bodybuilder to Iron Man finisherin just six months while
maintaining his physique.
You'll discover why you canhold on to and build muscle as a
hybrid athlete and learn theexact framework for building
strength and endurancesimultaneously.
Welcome to Wits and Weights,the show that helps you build a

(00:52):
strong, healthy physique usingevidence, engineering, and
efficiency.
I'm your host, Philip Pape, andtoday we're going to answer the

question (00:58):
can you build and preserve muscle while training
for endurance?
My guest today is Chris Gethin,a drug-free pro bodybuilder who
has also competed as an Ironmantriathlete, ultra-marathon
runner, Spartan competitor.
At 50 years old, he's publiclydocumented his physique through
multiple transformations betweencompetitive bodybuilding and

(01:19):
extreme endurance events.
As the former editor-in-chiefof bodybuilding.com and
co-founder of Unmatched ChrisGetham Gyms and Chris Gethan
Coaching, plus his huge onlinefollowing, he's impacted
millions.
And the reason I invited him onWits and Weights is because of
his evidence-informed approachto hybrid training and his
willingness to test andexperiment with his own body.

(01:40):
Today you're going to learn whycardio doesn't kill your gains,
how to structure training whenyou want both muscle and
endurance adaptations, andstrategies that allow lifters of
any age to build resiliencewithout losing their physique.
Chris, thanks so much forcoming on.
Welcome to Wits and Weights.

Kris Gethin (01:56):
Thank you very much for having me on.
Really appreciate it, Philip.

Philip Pape (01:59):
So let's get right into the heart of the topic
here, right?
Most people think you have topick a lane, strength and muscle
or endurance type sports,cardio.
And a lot of the lifters I hearfrom, the older guys, they're
often worried about doing toomuch cardio, especially in terms
of their recovery, theiradaptation.
So what's the reality when itcomes to how our body can handle

(02:19):
these different types of uhmodalities and even doing them
at the same time?

Kris Gethin (02:24):
Yeah, so uh good question.
I've always like I've come fromlike more of a sporting
background, as a lot of peoplethat got into bodybuilding have.
You know, I was into uh a lotof extreme sports, motocross,
downhill mountain biking, anduh, you know, I had to do a lot
of cardio for that.
And I I was one of these peoplethat at the time when I was

(02:45):
doing the cardio, I didn'treally enjoy it so much because
I was dealing with chronicasthma.
I had croup as a child almostdied, and uh asthma was just
something that I just couldn'tget on top of.
And it wasn't until I was in mymid-20s and I've just started
bodybuilding at this time that Iwas able to eliminate myself of

(03:06):
uh asthma, you know, and I wason serotide, becatide, and you
know, ventlin, or all thesedifferent drugs to try to stay
on top of um their asthma.
And uh, you know, I removed alot of like gluten from my diet,
uh, the traditional dairy, youknow, I obviously had an
allergen and inflammatoryresponse to these things.

(03:28):
And uh I think because now Iwas actually transitioning into
bodybuilding, I'm starting tostudy nutrition.
I went to college to studyinternational health and sports
therapy, that I'm actuallylooking at what I'm putting into
my body.
So when I was actually able toget rid of the asthma, the
cardia that I was doing, I'mactually starting to enjoy now,
you know, where it was such atask before, it was a challenge

(03:50):
and now it was kind of ablessing.
I really, really enjoyed itbecause now I can actually see
the improvements and I can feelmore comfortable out there as
opposed to struggle and hatingit, not because of the cardio of
itself, but because of theasthma.
So then when I actually starteddoing a little bit more cardio
with the weight training, Ifound my ability to recover was

(04:11):
much faster.
Now I'm not, I wasn't doingextensive amount of cardio, I
wasn't going on eight mile runsor anything like that.
But that cardia was definitelycarrying oxygen and nutrient
rich blood to the localizedareas where I of what I was
training.
So, for instance, if I trainedback, I trained legs, chest,
whatever it may be, now theblood flow is taking those

(04:32):
nutrients that I'm consuming tothose localized areas.
So I found I was able to hitthose muscle groups with more
frequency, uh, more ferocity,and my ability to recover.
And I always say your recoverykind of dictates your
performance.
My performance was improving indoing so.
So it's always kind of been apart of my bodybuilding
heritage.
And then I think it was in2016, you know, I was really tie

(04:56):
in with the idea because I'dretired from natural
bodybuilding in 2009.
I was doing these kind ofvarious video trainers that was,
you know, I was publishing onbodybuilding.com, so they were
daily video trainers.
People would follow me gettingripped or follow me putting on
size, and I thought, well, whatelse could I do?
I thought, well, I love cardio,maybe I'll do a

(05:18):
performance-based one, maybeI'll do a marathon or something
like that.
But then I liked cycling.
I do a lot of mountain biking.
Uh, I liked running, perfect.
I suck at swimming, but I knewthat that would be something
that wouldn't have a compoundeffect on my joints.
It would actually alleviate myjoints and allow my

(05:39):
cardiovascular engine to stilltransition into my run and into
my cycle.
So I thought, well, maybe weshould give uh triathlon a go,
and maybe that could be the nextvideo trainers.
And, you know, when I startedtalking to people about that,
people said, Oh, you're gonnasuck at that.
And I had that mentality, well,if I'm gonna suck at it, sign
me up.
Let's see what can be done andif it can be achieved.

(06:02):
Then you know what it's likewhen somebody, you know, first
does, you know, what is it, likethe, you know, they'll break a
record in something, whether itbe a deadlift, whether it be a
marathon time, whatever, thenall of a sudden, other people
start breaking that record.
It's like you've blown off theimpossibility or that lower
ceiling that people live under,and then all of a sudden other

(06:24):
people to are able to achieveit.
So that's what I was kind ofhoping that would be done if I
was able to achieve this goal ofdoing an Iron Man in a space of
six months, a full Iron Man,then other people would follow,
and that's exactly whathappened.
So then that's where I startedkind of teaching other people
who are bigger, because I wasI'm about 214 pounds now, I was

(06:45):
about 220 pounds doing the IronMan's and the other endurance
sports, just to show people,like you've so rightly said, you
don't have to give one up forthe other.
Because a lot of people gotinto bodybuilding from a
cardiovascular sport, maybetriathlon or maybe running or
whatever it is, but they gave itup knowing that they were

(07:06):
stepping into the bodybuildingworld.
But now they had theopportunity to do both.
And since then, you know, a lotof people have come up to me at
expos with their medals,whether it be for a you know, a
half marathon or uh an Iron Man,and said, I was able to achieve
this now because I didn'tbelieve that I could before.
So, you know, what I'd set outto do, I definitely accomplished

(07:28):
in that world.
But, you know, and we can talkabout this in the show, you
know, it comes with severalcaveats, you know, when you're
trying to maintain and buildmuscle, being a bigger person,
you know, that you have to thinkabout in regards to your
training recovery and frequencyof the training.

Philip Pape (07:45):
Yeah, I definitely want to get into that in a
second.
But a lot of what you said, Ipersonally can relate to, and I
know folks listening have gonethrough that journey of, you
know, either they were in sportat one point or cardiovascular
activity.
Like for me, it was CrossFitfor like eight years, and then
got into lifting.
And I thought, okay, this iscompletely different.
So of course, you know, onedoesn't follow from the other or

(08:06):
blend with the other.
But then I started doingobstacle course races.
I'm like, man, this strength isreally helping, but so is the
conditioning.
And I, you know, I could seethe beauty of putting them
together from a fitnessperspective, which is, I think,
a really good word here.
Sometimes that word's overused,but in this case it makes a lot
of sense.
And you also talked about thebenefits we can gain from cardio

(08:26):
for things like blood flow.
Even just you walking on yourtreadmill right now, right, has
a big positive impact on health.
And people who sit all day fordesk jobs, who's a lot of my
clients right there, you know,busy people just getting up
occasionally, even uh has a bigimpact.
So, you know, you said youhated swimming and then took the
challenge.
I love that attitude becausethat's where I think uh a lot of

(08:47):
people can lean into the thingthey don't really like, is the
thing they need to improve andcan see a big step change,
right?
So, all right.
So when we look at then themisinformation about concurrent
training or about thisinterference effect, where did
that come from?
Because I've only been in theindustry like five years and it
was starting to turn aroundthen, but at one point it was a

(09:10):
big deal to say, like, okay,cardio is gonna kill your gains.
Let's understand where thatcomes from, and then it the rest
will make sense.

Kris Gethin (09:16):
Yeah, so I think it just came from the old age, you
know, you know you'd seebodybuilders basically eating
and sleeping.
You know, you think of a baby,a baby's always sleeping, and
they're growing because nowthey're you know basically
hibernating and allowing thenutrients that they're consuming
to grow, you know, grow themuscle.
And the more that they move,the more that they're going to

(09:37):
expend.
And you reserve that time andenergy and a calorific surplus
for your workouts, and that is,that is it.
But I think we've transitionedmore now into a health-oriented
society where, okay, maybe thatdid feed the bodybuilder, but
now we want to feed our healthspan.
And you see it in supermarkets,like you know, when we were

(09:59):
younger, there was no WholeFoods, there was uh no co-ops,
and now you see in your generalsupermarket store more
protein-fortified foods, some ofthem maybe not so good, but
we're going in that direction.
And I think that's where it'scome from.
And obviously, CrossFit was abig uh proponent of this,
because you'd see a lot of thosepro-athletes looking like

(10:20):
bodybuilders, built jet, butthey can swim, they can walk on
their hands, they can do cleanand jerks, they can run, you
know, they can they can do allsorts.
And I think a lot of it camefrom that as well, that hybrid
athleticism.
And what I feel, and this iswhat I've tried to, you know,
tell people, is that itshouldn't be a static ornament.

(10:41):
You know, I have a desk job,but I'm always moving.
But if not everybody is gonnahave a treadmill desk, I get
that.
But I'll ask people, you know,every 30 minutes, maybe do some
squats on your chair.
And maybe if you're embarrassedbecause you're in front of
other coworkers, do some toiletsquats, just some sort of
movement every 30 minutes or so.
I'll always do that when I'm ona plane.

(11:01):
I I travel a lot.
I'm not gonna be there on a16-hour flight the entire time
and just staying still.
No, I'm gonna move, you know,and I think it's very important
that we focus on the mostimportant muscle that there is,
and it's not the pecs, it's thedelts, it's the heart.
That is what is gonna carry usinto our adventurous years past

(11:22):
retirement.
And then, of course, the brain,the organ that requires blood
flow.
And you know what it's likewhen you move in the morning,
all of a sudden you can thinkclearer, you have more cognitive
function if you're eating well.
So the importance of cardio inboth of those realms, I think,
have come to a little bit moreof a forefront, especially with

(11:42):
the inclusion of biohacking now.
Since over the past, say 15years, people are understanding,
okay, we do need squatstrength, we do need grip
strength, we need that bonedensity and muscle density to be
more metabolically active, havestable blood sugar levels, but
we also need to have good VO2max.
We've got to have thatcardiovascular function.

(12:05):
It's not just one thing.
We know that the blue zoneswhere people live to a
disproportionate age, you know,centenarians around the world,
yes, they have connection withfamily.
They don't really train inCrossFit boxes or the gyms, but
it's not just this one thing.
It's the movement, it's thefeeling of belonging, it's
purpose, it's all of thesethings combined.

(12:26):
But we know the heart and thebrain is a big proportion of
that, and bone density andbalance.
Because if they look at thebone density of people, for
instance, in Sardinia, wherethey have a big proportion of
people that are living tocentenarians, they have perfect
bone density.
Same if you go to Okinawa.
Now, those people in Okinawamay not be squatting in a gym,

(12:48):
but you see these people over100 years old standing and
sitting from the floor about 40times a day.
That's their resistancetraining, and they've got great
balance.
And of course, you know, theymay be eating a little bit
different to what we do in awesternized world.
So I think we're learning a lotof these things and we're
including them into thatlifestyle, whether we're an

(13:09):
endurance athlete, bodybuilder,crossfitter, whatever it is,
it's just having thatsubconscious voice that's
telling us, okay, we got to dosomething a little bit different
further than what you know Iwas taught when I was a kid
looking up to ArnoldSchwarzenegger or whatever.

Philip Pape (13:25):
Yeah, for sure.
So we're originally I wasgonna, the hook of this episode
was hybrid athleticism, butreally I think we're talking
about that being uh the desireof anybody who wants to be
healthier, live a long time,have cognitive health.
Everything you just said, Ithink there's confusion as to
like what is the purpose ofcardio, and even the word cardio
has become kind of a bad wordfor some people.

(13:45):
And really what you're talkingabout is using your body in for
your everyday movement patternsand what it was designed for,
right?
Whether you're doing it to amore intense, ferocious level,
like you mentioned with slingingaround iron, or it's just a
natural part of your lifestyle,which in the Western world, for
many of us, if you're notlifting weights, you're
practically not doing anythingprobably beyond that.

(14:06):
So why don't we create aspectrum here and start with,
okay, people are listening here,they know the value of lifting
weights.
Now they want to become moreactive and move toward that
hybrid approach.
And then after that, we cansay, okay, what about more
extreme?
Like if you want to doendurance events or competition.
So maybe let's start with thegeneral what's next for somebody
who's lifting weights and maybewalking, but not much else.

Kris Gethin (14:28):
Sure.
Now I'd always look at thelifestyle first.
If I've got a client come to meand they want to participate in
endurance events, but they wantto work out or whatever, you
know, but yeah, hybrid athletes,I'll look at their lifestyle.
What is their ability torecover?
Are they looking at have theygot four kids and they're taking
some different sporting events?
They got a very stressful butsedentary job, uh, they're not

(14:51):
able to sleep much.
Well, that tells me thatthey're probably gonna be in a
more sympathetic, dominantstate.
Their ability to recover isgonna be lessened.
So I'm gonna give them probablyless to do because if they're
not recovering, they're notgonna perform.
And, you know, we couldpossibly see a decline in their
testosterone, their heart ratevariability, and it's not gonna

(15:11):
be good for them.
So always look at those thingsfirst, their ability to recover,
and that will dictate a lot ofthings from there.
And then we have thattransition in.
So let's say, you know, we weretalking about swimming, you
know, being that weakness, focuson that challenge.
So I'll always say, let's focuson turning your weaknesses into
your weapons.
You know, what why can't youswim?
Because if anybody comes to meand says, hey, I want to do a

(15:34):
triathlon, nine times out often, they'll always say, but I
suck at swimming.
I can't swim.
You know, it it's everybody,it's the majority of people.
So that's what we're gonnafocus the majority of our time
doing.
The frequency is gonna bethere.
Now, it isn't so muchdifficult, it's not difficult on
the joints.
You know, if anybody'slistening here, you'll know it

(15:55):
all comes down not so much evento fitness, it just comes down
to technique.
So once you've actually gotthat technique down, okay, then
we can work on speed.
And I like to do that witheverything.
If we're talking about running,which a majority of people are,
the majority of injuries from,you know, if you have a
comparison model of people thatwork out with weights,

(16:18):
strength-trained athletes, andthen endurance athletes, there
are much more injuries that areprevalent with endurance
athletes specifically runningbecause of that constant
repetitive nature.
And it's not something thatkind of pulls and snaps straight
away.
It's over time, and we ignoreit, we're in denial of it until

(16:38):
it's too late.
So we'll always focus on thattechnique specific to that
person, making sure that they'vegot the right footwear.
You know, I love hokers likethe Cliftons or the Bondy's in
Hokers are perfect for me, mystructure and my size.
I got very skinny ankles, myfeet avert a little bit, so
they're perfect for my gait andmy run.
You know, that technique couldbe making sure that your eyes

(17:01):
are as smooth as possible on theeye line.
They're not jumping up toomuch.
So we're trying to use ourposterior chain, our glutes and
our hamstrings.
If that person has access tolike a woodway or like a you
know a curved treadmill whereyou see a lot of the
crossfitters use, they're goingto work their posterior chain
much more.
Activate your glutes, activateyour hamstrings, perfect.

(17:23):
Okay, now we've got thattechnique down.
Now we start working onbuilding up the time, the speed,
the frequency, and alternatingthat with the workouts.
So to begin with, the workoutsare generally the weight
training workouts, are generallyon a non-cardio day to begin
with.
Okay, so we alternate betweenthe two.

(17:45):
As we get a little bit better,and I can see that person's HRV
is good, their ability torecover is good.
Now we start combining themboth on the same days.
Because what I like to do, andnot everybody would agree with
this, I like to pre-fatigue.
So let's say I go into the gymand I train legs.
As soon as I finish my legworkout, now I'm going for my

(18:07):
run.
Because I want to get used togetting my technique down and
allow myself to be prepared orto run on tired legs.
Because if I can run on tiredlegs and have my technique
perfect, then when I go on freshlegs, perfection is going to be
there even at the end of therun, where that's where the
injuries usually happen.

(18:28):
As you fatigue, your posturegoes, you start to slouch, you
don't use your posterior chain.
Now it's more of a compoundingexercise that you know leads to
injury over time.
So that's kind of how Itransition it over time.
It's kind of separated,technique, we focus on and then
we pull it over together.
And it's the same with the withthe weights workouts.
You know, we're just focusingmostly compound movements and uh

(18:52):
the auxiliaries are there, justyou know, like on your arms,
your shoulders, not so muchbecause you're going to get it
on the compound, such as yourbench press or like your uh bent
over row or whatever it is.
And then we start increasingand including like the arms, the
shoulders, the auxiliaries aswe get a little bit better with
our recovery.
Because a lot of people fallshort on a recovery as we've got

(19:15):
into this entrepreneurshipspace and you know we're more
dopamine dominant, we don'trelease as much oxytocin and
serotonin because we just don'tsit down and be and relax.
I like to focus on that first,the HRV.
And once we're able to get outof that, you know, uh
sympathetic dominant state andthat dopamine dominant dominant
state, then we start increasingthe frequency from there.

(19:38):
Because most people just don'tsleep enough.
They really don't.
Because in as I that's what Iwas getting to, in this
entrepreneurship space, we'relike, okay, we don't have any
time left.
What can we tap into?
It's usually sleep.
And um, you know, the one thingthat I have found has been the
best biohack for most people outof all the technology, then

(19:59):
thousands of dollars that youcould spend out there on stem
cells and stuff is sleep.

Philip Pape (20:03):
100%.
I I thought you were gonna saythousands of dollars you could
spend on things to improve yoursleep, because you could do that
too.

Kris Gethin (20:10):
Yeah.

Philip Pape (20:10):
No, that's but you're right, sleep is free.
So, okay, what I was thinkingof when as you pulled that whole
story together was the idea ofspecificity as a hybrid athlete.
In other words, we think wealways try to separate these
things into okay, specificity tostrength, specificity to
endurance.
And what you're saying isyou're building them both
together based on those metrics,including recovery being the

(20:32):
big one.
And when you start, just likeany newbie, you know, there's
newbie gains to be had, but atthe same time, you can't, you
know, overshoot, or it soundslike you're going to hit that
fatigue wall or thatover-training wall and maybe
backslide or get injured.
So that's one thing that cameto mind.
When we talk about recovery,you said that's the first step
is to assess their ability torecover.
We're in a very high-wiredworld, sympathetic, dopamine, I

(20:54):
mean dominant is what you said.
You say we want to get theirHRV to a better place.
What's kind of a progressionthat occurs to do that early on?

Kris Gethin (21:02):
So, you know, it's some of this sounds a little bit
woo-woo and hippie, but a lotof the time I'm asking that
person, what are you doing yourcardio?
Okay, it's indoors.
Let's get outside a little bit,make sure that we're including
our hormones into this equation.
So, vitamin D, as we know, isbasically a hormone, it's like a
precursor to testosterone.
So, get out in the nature, getout in the sun.

(21:25):
Again, we're releasing too muchdopamine, so don't take your
headphones out.
You know, we're gonna justlisten to the sound of our
footsteps, maybe the wind orwhatever it is, but you get in
that sunlight as well at thesame time.
I will go as far as sometimeshaving that client, dependent on
their gate, actually weargrinding shoes or grinding
trainers.

(21:45):
So there's a company, I'm notI'm not sponsored by this
company by any means.
They're called Bahi.
They're out of the UK and theyhave grinding trainers, and some
of them uh are very, verycomfortable.
Like if I'm traveling and Iwant to travel lights, I'm
wearing those trainers because Idon't want to take a load with
me, and uh they're great to runin because we know if we're

(22:06):
absorbing the negative eons fromthe earth that's gonna be
anti-inflammatory as well, couldpossibly help with our ability
to recover and HRV, etc.
You know, if I and some peopleare electrosensitive, if I hold
a phone here and I've got my EMFreader here, then that number
goes all the way up.
You know, everybody at home cantry this if they've got an EMF

(22:28):
reader.
But now, if I take my shoes andsocks off and stand out on the
grass, that number goes downbecause that EMF is penetrating
through me and not into me andkind of stabilizing itself there
and causing inflammation.
So there's the technology mixedwith the ancestral wisdom side
of things, there's that aspectfirst, and then I look at their

(22:50):
ability to absorb the foods thatthey're consuming.
So when they're eating food,because this is our fuel, this
is gonna give us our fuel toperform and our ability to
recover, you know, this iseverything.
But is the concentration ofthat food, number one, perfect?
And are we absorbing that food?
A lot of people will consumetheir meals while they're

(23:10):
distracted.
They could be driving, theycould be scrolling, they could
be in the middle of a meeting.
So they're not allowing theirbody to understand and be
cognizant of the fact thatthey're eating food and now
they're full.
Okay, it's much like youtraining in the gym and having a
full-on conversation or ameeting with someone while

(23:32):
you're doing bicep curls.
You're not gonna have thatneuropathway connection to
adequately contract that muscle.
It's the same when you'reconsuming food.
You cannot be distracted andexpect to absorb all the food.
And this isn't just me talking,this is science.
You can look at the scientificliterature out there.
There's a great book out therecalled The Slow Down Diet that

(23:53):
people can read on this subjectas well.
So it's very important that youare cognizant, you haven't got
distraction, you're putting yourfork down between bites.
Maybe you're thinking of yoursenses, your smell, your taste,
the you know, the look of thefood, the texture, etc.
So now once you consume it,you're actually absorbing it.
Because a lot of people, youknow, um miss that passive

(24:16):
digestion.
So there's that aspect ofthings as well.
And then, you know, hydrationis a big proportion of it,
dependent on the climate thatthey're living in and how much
that person sweats.
So, you know, you can't justconsume water and then dilute
yourself of all the essentialminerals and and uh you know
electrolytes that the body isneeded and the heart is needing

(24:40):
just to relax and contract soyou can adequately recover while
you're actually moving as well.
And then dependent on that sizeof that person.
Again, if they want to be ahybrid athlete, the person that
they're training with, who is anendurance athlete and that is
it, you can't expect to consumethe same amount of food or
supplements as that person.

(25:00):
You're gonna require a lot, lotmore.
It's basically like a rollingbuffet when you're out there
cycling.
You're gonna have to have abackpack.
You cannot go out there with acouple of gel packs and a couple
of bars and expect to reach theend of that ride.
That muscle that you have isrequires so many more calories
just to maintain itself, letalone continue to repair itself

(25:23):
to build.

Philip Pape (25:24):
Yeah, we was just talking to somebody earlier
today about hunger during abulking phase, because it's one
thing that surprises a lot ofguys, right, when they start
bulking for the first time.
And it's just so resourceintensive when you layer the
cardio on top of that.
Um, I know what you mean,right?
Because I've spoken to guys andthey're like, yeah, 4,000 is
the bare minimum calories onlike a slow day, a non-training

(25:45):
day, and then it goes up fromthere.
So these are really good tipsbecause I think a lot of folks
jump right into the I'll call itthe well-known fundamentals of
okay, train, eat, sleep, thisand that.
And what you're you're sayingis there's this other aspect of
slowing down of mindfulness, ofphysically interacting with what

(26:05):
we're meant to, which is I'mlooking at a warm sunny day here
in Connecticut.
I feel like going out in mybare feet right now after
talking to you, just going inthe grass.
And I'm gonna look up thosegrounding trainers too.
That's interesting.
And then just hydration andfood and how all of that impacts
your ability to be successfulhere and become more
parasympathetic dominant.
I guess it'd be the opposite,right?
Of sympathetic dominant.

(26:26):
Okay, so those are great tips.
And then you mentionedtechnique, um, and you alluded
to a few things like, and I knowrunning is a big deal.
We had Brad Kearns on the show,you know, co-author of Born to
Walk, and he loves talking abouthow most people don't know how
to run properly and they getinjured and footwear, have big
cushion footwear and all that.
Thinking about all the peopleyou work with who are trying to

(26:48):
improve their cardiovascularfitness and their hybrid
athleticism, what would you sayare like the big two or three
technique, like low-hangingfruit for most people listening
to the show?

Kris Gethin (26:58):
Yeah, good question.
So, you know, knowing that thiscould potentially be a big part
of your life and you don't wantto wear down your cartilage,
you know, in your knees anytimesoon, because now you're
running, you're also squatting,you're leg pressing, your leg
extending, that's a lot of wearin tear.
And there's thankfully today,there's peptides that can

(27:18):
actually help regrow cartilage,but we don't want to rely upon
it, obviously.
We want to just kind of preventthat need.
So I always suggest if you havethe ability that you run
off-road whenever possible.
You know, if you're doing anultra marathon, which is why I
chose uh ultra marathon overconventional marathons, a lot of
them are off-road.

(27:39):
You know, they can beunforgiving because of the
inclines and the declines, butat least you're not dealing with
that hard surface uh, you know,the whole time that you're
doing a lot of running.
So I always suggest people todo off-road as much as possible
because you are actually goingto strengthen the stabilizing
muscles around your ankles,around your knees, around your

(28:00):
hips, and of course your torsoat the same time if you're on an
uneven surface.
And it's going to be moreforgiving on your knees.
So that's that's the one.
And again, if you don't haveaccess to that, try to find a
facility that has something thatis a self-propelled treadmill,
like a like a curve, like awoodway curve or a rogue, where
you're actually pulling ityourself and you're not using

(28:22):
the momentum of the treadmill,because that will really help
take a lot of the strain fromyour knees and put it onto that
posterior chain.
So you're going to be able toget so many more miles out of
your knees and more reps out ofyour knees if you do so.
Okay, so that's one big aspect.
The other thing when it comesto uh technique is let's talk

(28:45):
about cycling for instance.
Again, a lot of us not using aposterior chain, we're usually
quad dominant, but there's a lotthat you can do with the propel
of that bike when you're usinga posterior chain.
But not only that, if you're abigger person, you're probably
not very well hydrodynamic.
So you want to do whatever youcan to tuck it, get used to

(29:06):
tucking yourself into a smallerposition.
Now, most people that are on aon a larger side, they're not
flexible.
So you have to really work onyour flexibility and your
mobility to be able to tuckyourself.
Because, like, if you're onaerobars, like I had to have
aerobars made for me to beginwith, because I just couldn't
bring my elbows in, you know,from just from being too big.

(29:28):
So I got used to just reallyclosing that distance and using
a lot of mobility techniques anddoing yoga in order to do so.
Because if you're out theredoing like a 115-mile bike ride,
over time that adds up,especially when you've got the
wind coming towards you.
You know, it really increasesyour calorie expenditure.
So there's a ride that I usedto do here in Boise that is just

(29:52):
over 100 miles.
Uh, and there's another onethat I'd do that's 88 miles, but
I'd measure the calories thatI'm burning.
During that time, so I couldkind of estimate how much food
that is needed.
If the wind is against me, asopposed to just no wind or
behind me, the difference incalories is huge, absolutely
massive.
So if you're really focusing onbeing an aerodynamic, you're

(30:16):
not gonna have to have as manycalories, or you could just be
hitting a wall and not haveenough calories with you.
And the same with hydration, ofcourse, you know, you're gonna
go through a lot more hydrationwater and uh volume of fluid if
you've got weather patterns thatyou're not kind of used to.
So that's why it's very, veryimportant.
And then a big mistake that Inotice when it comes to

(30:39):
swimming, if you're eventhinking of doing like a
triathlon, is a lot of peoplewill just get used to swimming
in the pool, uh following thatblack line and not getting used
to sighting, even if they areswimming in the pool.
So I always tell people youneed a sight like maybe every
four to six strokes, becauseyou'd be surprised if you do not

(31:00):
have a black line to follow andyou're used to following it,
you'll be all over the place,you know, and you can lose so
much time just going off track alittle bit and get used to
sighting directly in the sun,because the chances are you will
be, you know, facing face thosechallenges when you're out in
the open waters, whether that'swhen you're breathing to one

(31:22):
side, you're gonna be facing thesun, or you're gonna be facing
the sun in front of you, becausea lot of the time it's a
circle.
So at some point, and it's youknow, the triathlons are usually
in the morning at sunrise,you're gonna be facing the sun.
So you've got to get used toall these kinds of dynamics that
you wouldn't necessarilyprepare yourself for.
So you have to think of theunexpected.

(31:43):
When I start the swim withanother thousand people, what
are the chances of my gogglesgetting kicked off?
You know, I've got to beprepared for these scenarios.

Philip Pape (31:50):
Interesting.
Yeah.
Things many of us don't thinkabout.
Not to mention the current, Isuspect, right?
Which can point I grew up inFlorida and uh some pretty
strong currents there in theocean.
Before you know it, you're, youknow, wondering where your
family is.
But uh, no, that's great.
So you gave us a technique foreach of the three sports, and
that raised the question to me,what where does sprinting come

(32:11):
into this?
Because I know sprinting can bean important part of training
when it comes to running, andthey're not the same thing by
any chance.
There, there's there's a lot ofdifferences.
Just in general, what are yourthoughts on sprinting for
training itself and as aspecific, I guess, sport that
you have to train for?

Kris Gethin (32:26):
Yeah, so that's a very good question.
So the bigger that person is,the more muscle that they're
holding, the more they shouldactually focus on more sprint
work.
And there's several reasons whyI say this.
So when I first started gettinginto hybrid athleticism,
anybody that's followed me knowsthat I'm a big volume trainer.
I like to train with like 30,40, 50 reps.

(32:48):
You know, I like the challenge,I like the pain associated with
it because I feel that I've gotmore of a reward after dealing
with that sacrifice.
I've got more success overhere.
And I figured, okay, with allthis repetition that I've done,
especially on my legs and on myback, I'd be better prepared for
like the cycle, the swim, therun.
And it worked the oppositebecause I found that I

(33:12):
overtrained so easy, hitting allthe volume in the gym and then
hidden all the volume outside ofthe gym.
So what I figured out over timeby the mistakes is that I
needed to bring down the volume.
So my repetitions went fromvery high to very, very low.
And I'm talking about likeeight to ten repetitions.
And then the frequency of myworkouts went from like five to

(33:35):
six times a week, the weighttraining workouts, down to like
four days a week.
Evidently the same with theendurance aspect.
I'm thinking, okay, I've got torun for eight miles, I've got
to do this hundred-mile bikeride or whatever it is.
During the week, I'm gonnafocus on just long, long, long,
long, and that's it, becausethat's what I've got to do when
I compete in the Iron Man.

(33:55):
But again, my ability torecover was so bad that my
performance in the gym was nowuseless.
There was too much of acrossover.
So then I started bringing downthe volume and the duration and
the miles of that endurancedown into more VO2 max and
sprints.
So those sprints would be inthe water.
Let's say if I'm swimmingusually for 45 minutes on a

(34:18):
Thursday, now I'm bringing itdown to 25 minutes, but with a
lot more sprints in there.
There's the warm-up.
I'm using more paddles, so I'musing more resistance and using
sprints as my purpose to improvemy endurance.
And then the same with theruns, I'm finding like on the on
the treadmill, I'm hitting moresprints, or I'm finding hills

(34:39):
and I'm doing repeat sprintsjust to help propel my
cardiovascular fitness withoutover-training my physical aspect
or causing central nervoussystem fatigue.
Same with the cycle as well.
I'm putting it up the gears asopposed to just keeping it in a
low gear and spinning high.
And I'm standing, I'm finding ahill.
There's, you know, where I liveactually is the hill that I

(35:02):
used to train on.
I've just moved to this house,but right behind me is a hill
that I used to do a lot oftraining on.
I'm like, okay, I'm gonna bestanding for a lot of this
training session, really workingon those sprints as well.
And what I found again overtime, my HRV improved, my
testosterone markers improvedbecause I found just with all
this endurance and all thisovertraining, my testosterone

(35:24):
was coming down.
I just wasn't feeling good, Iwasn't feeling vibrant, I
wasn't, I didn't have thestrength, I felt fatigued.
But athletes and entrepreneurshave this very strong mental
strength and we'll just pursueand go, it's okay, I'm living in
denial, I'll be fine, I've gotthis.

(35:44):
When we're actually doing a lotmore harm and our ability to uh
recover has obviously just gonethrough the hole.
We don't acknowledge that, andthen we get injured,
testosterone keeps coming down,and we're just digging self into
a hole.
And a lot of endurance athletesthat have signed up with me,
you know, we'll always do theblood work first.
Usually their testosterone isin the tank because a lot of

(36:06):
athletes just want more, more,more, and they don't understand
the ability to recover becausethey think more is better, you
know.
So a lot of the time, if we'vegot beginners, we need to do
more.
A lot of the time, if we've gotathletes, we have to do less.

Philip Pape (36:22):
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.
I'm a huge fan of sperminingit, which is why I ask, because
when I finally got into it, itreminded me of back in my
CrossFit days, how you know youhad the metabolic conditioning.
Effectively, we were we weresprinting a lot, right, with
your wads.
And I realized how that carriedover very well into some of the
endurance, you know, justweekend stuff that I would do
occasionally where I had to runfive miles and I hadn't run five

(36:43):
miles in, you know, years, butI was capable of doing it where
I feel like it wouldn't havebeen possible without that, all
that um conditioning.
So there, like you said,there's a crossover and there's
also a fatigue to work ratiothat we have to be careful of.
I've spoken to guys on the showthat, you know, used to put in
a lot of miles, they get getinjured, and then now that

(37:03):
they're older, they do just whatyou're saying.
They actually have very fewlong runs during the week, you
know, maybe not even any forweeks at a time, and they're
actually focused much more onthis kind of very efficient mode
of improving your fitness.
So let me ask you this.
Let's say someone doesn't careabout competing in an event or
triathlon or anything like that,and they just want peak
cardiovascular fitness for itsown sake, could sprinting be the

(37:26):
dominant form of cardiovascularconditioning?

Kris Gethin (37:28):
If that person wants to be in hybrid athlete
and hold a decent amount ofmuscle and continue to build
muscle or maintain it, for sure.
For sure.
If they're focused on justendurance, endurance only, then
it needs to be a part of it,doesn't, but it doesn't have to
be a bigger ratio of thatproportion.
So my five days a week or fourto five days a week would be

(37:49):
that.
And then my one day a weekwould be the long and slow.
So that is okay, now I'm goingout for my hundred-mile bike
ride because I've got to getused to time in a saddle, or now
I'm gonna go for that uh, youknow, 12-mile run because I just
got to get used to being outthere and fueling and
understanding where my fuel andhydration uh you know

(38:10):
measurements are.
So you understand that.
So I would always do that likeon a weekends, and then during a
week, knowing I'm gonna bebusier anyway, I'll just keep it
short and sweet to thosesprints.

Tony (38:20):
My name is Tony.
I'm a strength lifter in my40s.
Thank you to Phil and his witsand weights community for
helping me learn more aboutnutrition and how to implement
better ideas into my strengthtraining.
Phil has a very, very goodunderstanding of macros and
chemical compounds and hormonesand all that.
And he's continuously learning.
That's what I like about Phil.
He's got a great sense ofhumor, he's very relaxed, very

(38:43):
easy to talk to.
One of the greatest thingsabout Phil, in my view, is that
he practices what he preaches.
He also works out with ourbells.
He trains heavy, not as heavyas me, but he trains heavy.
So if you talk with him aboutgetting a better shape, eating
better, he's probably gonna giveyou some good advice.
And I would strongly recommendyou talk with him and it'll help
you out.

Philip Pape (39:03):
Yeah, that's great.
And then I presume as you ifyou are going to compete in an
event, even if it's not a bigevent, but something, you're
gonna have to change the ratioof your conditioning more toward
the specific maybe distance asyou get closer to the event,
right?
Just for the conditioningaspect, I suppose.
Yeah.
And then the nutrition has tochange.
Do you do you know carbloadingor you know, do you start

(39:24):
switching up the ratios ofmacros as you get closer to that
event?

Kris Gethin (39:28):
Yeah, so that this is what I would, this is, and I
did this for my second uh ironman, actually.
I uh really tried to challengemyself to see how far I could go
fasting before I actually got,you know, and then when I knew
where that number where thatlevel was roughly, that's when I
would consume my caloriesbecause I'd always try to find a

(39:49):
way to make my training a lotharder than what I actually
would on training on actuallythe event day, for instance.
So as I mentioned before, I'dgo and like train legs and then
go for my run.
I'd train back and then go formy swim.
So I'd make it harder.
And the same thing from thenutrition, not from the
hydration, but I would fast.
So I'd go, you know, I'd trainin the morning, uh, fasted, but

(40:12):
I would take supplements.
I'd take essential amino acidsto prevent that catabolism.
I'd have glutamin as well toprevent a lot of that
catabolism.
Uh, but that was something thatI kind of experimented with
just to see if it would actuallyhelp on the day.
And I found like a balancebetween both.
It wasn't necessarily justamino acids and it wasn't

(40:32):
necessarily a huge load.
It was a proportion betweenwhere I just found like having
some carb powder and proteinpowder would suffice.
You know, so a lot of the a lotof my nutrition, I guess, came
from supplementation duringthese times.
And it's not because I owned aown a supplement company, it's
just I found it so much easierto consume, especially for the

(40:56):
endurance aspect, without itjust taking a lot of blood into
my stomach to digest it where Ifeel nauseous, or I feel
fatigued.
If I've got that blood in themuscles and in my brain as
opposed to in my stomach tryingto digest, I just felt so much
better for it.
So I did rely on supplements alot more and I was able to
condense a lot of calories intofluid.

(41:17):
And my my uh wife would makelike these protein balls as well
that I'd have in my bag on theon the front of the bike, and
I'd just be consuming them asI'm going along as well.

Philip Pape (41:29):
Yeah, it's it's it's amazing how impactful
digestion and gut content is andlike the timing of food, right?
We talk about it even just inthe lifting context with pre and
post-workouts, and everyone's alittle bit different, right?
Their response.
Like you said, you had to findwhere that limit was.
Some people really thrive on,say, fasted strength training,
and some people don't, or theyjust need something, like you

(41:49):
said, uh calorie dense but notvoluminous, right?
Yeah.
So what was I gonna?
Oh, you so you mentioned thisis good.
You've mentioned some of thethings you've tracked as well
along the way as you'retraining.
You mentioned blood work fortestosterone, I'm sure other
markers as well.
You mentioned HRV.
Sometimes we get into the weedswith this stuff and people
shouldn't even care until theyget to a certain point.

(42:10):
But what are the big thingsthat are important for just
about anybody to track in thisspace?

Kris Gethin (42:14):
Yeah, well, number one, just how you feel, because
a lot of people, especiallyinsurance, kind of look at
quantification too much.
And you know, they focus on onthat, that, their, their wattage
and their heart rate, and andthey become consumed by it.
Even if they feel okay, now allof a sudden they see their
readings not looking okay, youknow, that now they've convinced

(42:35):
themselves they're not.
It's much like if I haveclients measuring their sleep.
If they measure their sleep andthey look and they they wake up
in the morning, they feelstrong.
I'm gonna hit my personal besttoday, and then they look at
their numbers and go, oh my God,I didn't get that much sleep.
Now all of a sudden they're noteven considering that.
I think you have to take itwith a grain of salt and just go

(42:56):
by your instincts to a certaindegree.
But the quantification that Ireally do like is what I meant,
what I said before, is heartrate variability along with
sleep, uh, just to ensure thatyou are getting good quality uh
sleep there because a lot ofpeople are using devices before
bed or they're watching TV, andnow that artificial blue light

(43:17):
is penetrating their retina, sothey're not able to release the
melatonin to keep them calm andallow them to sleep.
And you know, again, it'scoming down to adrenaline and
dopamine, uh, which can raisecortisol if that person's not
sleeping.
And cortisol is going to becatabolic.
So always kind of measuringthese things.
The other thing that I alwayslike to measure, as I mentioned,

(43:40):
is you know, like the heartrate, making sure that we are
pushing ourselves, but not tothe limit where we feel that we
just cannot recover.
What is that heart rate afteryou've finished your workout
session?
How long is it taking to comeback to baseline?
So I kind of like to look atlook at those numbers as well.
And the other thing,intermittently, is always the

(44:02):
blood work.
Just see where the hormonalresponse is amongst all of this.
You know, how is their bodyability to recover?
Are they depleted in anyvitamins?
A lot of people, they will takeus, let's say they take a
certain supplement.
So let's take, you know, we'retalking now in the world of
peptides in endurance aspect.
People are taking somethingcalled sloop, S-L-U-P 3-3-2.

(44:25):
I don't know if you or yourlisteners have heard of it, but
a lot of people will take thatand it depletes them of their
vitamin B levels.
And they're wondering, why am Ifeeling so fatigued?
Well, number one, it's anexercise mnemic.
So you're actually utilizingmore calories at rest.
And number two, you'redepleting yourself of B
vitamins.
So now you're wondering, oh,maybe I'm just over-trained.

(44:45):
No, you're depleted.
So I think it's very importantthat you have your blood work
done as well, just to see ifthere are any depletions.
And we kind of use that as ourgamifications to improve.
Now, there's a lot of otherthings that we can quantify out
there as well.
VO2 Max, I like to do that.
But I don't like to go that toofar into the weeds because I
think people can take technologya little bit too far and rely

(45:09):
on it a little bit too much.
And if we look at some of theamazing triathletes from years
ago, and I'm talking about likethe 80s when they had no
quantification, a lot of thosestill hold records today.
So it goes for sure that if wewere able to do it on the
trainers that they were wearing,on the heavier bikes that they
were riding, and still holdrecords, then you know, maybe
the quantification can be takena little too far.

Philip Pape (45:32):
Yeah, I totally agree because we could confound
the number with the resultssometimes, even just in the
physique world where you'relike, well, my numbers suggest I
didn't put on much lean mask,but you know what?
I'm happy with what I see inthe mirror.
It's like, okay, which do youwant to care more about right
now?
I love data as well, but I alsoknow the world of biohacking is
so big now in the podcastingspace, and and it can go

(45:54):
overboard where like that's allyou're caring about.
Something like VO2 Max, youknow, I've had it tested once or
twice, which that's a torturoustest I don't like to do, but
you know, even that number ishighly dependent on your
condition that day, but alsoyour weight and same things like
that that are happening, thatwe have to not read too much
into it.
And then as far as blood work,I'm I'm really getting into that

(46:14):
now, Chris.
Actually, I'm kind of a latecomer probably, but uh, and
understanding that there are somany system level effects,
right?
Where there, you know, if youlook at vitamin B, like you
mentioned, there could be 12blood markers or mechanisms that
are tied to vitamin B in someother way, and and it's all kind
of linked together.
So you gotta be careful, right,to not overread that.

(46:34):
Um, you mentioned training alittle bit.
You mentioned the pre-fatigueand kind of mixing the
modalities to make it harder onyourself so it's easier when you
compete.
Where do uh squats and lowerbody training come in?
Uh, because you know, I've I'vemet a lot of runners who never
lifted before and then they'reshocked at how much better their
running becomes, you know, whentheir legs get a little

(46:56):
stronger.
So just kind of dig into thattopic a little bit: leg
strength, squatting, recovery,all that.

Kris Gethin (47:02):
Yeah.
So, you know, what I used to doa lot of was like a lot of the
isolation movements, you know,your leg extensions, your
hamstring kills, because I camefrom, you know, a bodybuilding
background where you have tolook at not only the function of
the physique, but the theaesthetics of the physique, the
sculpting of the physique andcertain muscles.
So they would come from a lotof these isolation movements.

(47:24):
But then as I started goingdown the rabbit hole of actually
trying and testing, I foundthat the compounds is where it
really helped, as opposed tojust that.
Because he was able to, youknow, you think about it, the
cycling is like a leg extensionand hamstring curl.
So I found that I was able tocontinue to have the shape of
the legs and the size of thelegs just by that alone.

(47:46):
So I think the compounds make agood cause for you to continue.
Now that could be in the formof a squat, it could be in the
form of a leg press.
Whatever your physique or yourstructure allows is what you're
gonna do.
So some people with very, verynarrow hips and very tight
Achilles tendons don't do wellon squat.

(48:06):
They start to bend forwardbecause they're attendons, they
feel pain and tightness in theirflexes because they're narrow,
narrow hips.
So maybe a squat isn't forthem.
It's gonna be more of a legpress.
That's gonna be the movement.
But you know, you kind of haveto try before you bite.
What I actually did myselfbased on my structure, and I've
torn attendons in my ankles likeseven times, so I've got very,

(48:29):
very skinny ankles on a largerupper body and larger legs.
So I would do my squats a lotof the time on a bosom ball, as
weird as that sounds, because Icould really help strengthen the
stability muscles around mytendons, around the ankles,
being on a boso ball.
Now that may be a forward lungesquat onto the bosob ball, or a

(48:52):
squat in a conventional wayitself, with a bar on my back.
I'm not saying everybody shoulddo this, especially not
unsupervised, but it worked forme because touch wood, after
doing that, and of course I dothe rotations on my ankle in the
morning, like 30 to the left,30 to the right, and then plant
a flexion, 30 of them.
And touch wood, I've never hadany problems with my ankle since

(49:14):
then.
But that's how it kind ofhelped me for my runs because
the last time I tore the tendonsin my ankle was during a run,
you know, because my feet wouldadvert.
So that's kind of what helpedme in that regard.
Now, of course, if you areactivating muscles by doing a
squat, you've got now these newneuropathways that are reaching

(49:35):
your legs.
You're gonna use those sameneuropathways now when you're
running.
Because a lot of us rununconsciously, much like Brad
said, you know, a lot of peopledon't do don't know how to run
correctly, and they don'tbecause we're unconscious when
you're doing it.
But when you're squatting,you're more conscious of your
balance if you're pushing morethrough your left or your right,
and you'll transition that intoyour run now.

(49:58):
You'll be more conscious ofthat run as long as you're not
distracted.
So, you know, don't be on yourphone.
Maybe don't take the music outthere, just focus on your
ability to activate each fiberand each muscle group
accordingly.

Philip Pape (50:12):
Yeah, and so you brought it back to that
mindfulness you mentionedearlier, which I know I always
tell people when I when I lift,every time I do a rep, I don't
listen to anything like, oh, youdon't listen to rock music, get
yourself pumped up.
I'm like, no, I want to focuson my form because I know
something's going on.
And I want to hear my kneescracking too, you know?
So pay attention to that as weget older.

(50:32):
Exactly.
You know, you can find theproblem spots that way.
But uh, yeah, so mindfulness isthe name of the game, and it
and definitely I like thatproprioception or whatever you
want to call it.
We we like to throw away andthrow out nerdy words, but you
know, mind muscle connection,being in tune with your body,
with your form, with thosemovement patterns as a human.
Some people are definitely moreclumsy, right?
And they kind of have to trainmore for that, and others are

(50:53):
just naturally athletic.
I guess as we wrap up here,there's probably a lot more we
could have covered, but when youthink of hybrid athleticism for
the general population whowants to get into it, is there
anything we didn't cover that wedefinitely should hit on?

Kris Gethin (51:04):
Oh, good.
Uh let me think now.
Um, I'd say more so thananything, that, you know, again,
it all comes down on thatperson.
But nutrition and hydration iseverything, absolutely
everything, and your ability torecover, obviously, you know,
sleep is going to be huge.
But a lot of the time I find,especially with European

(51:25):
athletes or or clients, is thatthey think having a cup of tea
or a coffee is hydrating when itactually has a diuretic effect.
And if I look at people'sperformance and it's down on a
certain day or a certain week,it's usually coming down to
their hydration.
So knowing that your body ismade up of around 70% fluid,
just make sure that you get usedto hydrating constantly because

(51:48):
when you're out there actuallyrunning or cycling, you're gonna
have to hydrate yourself a lotmore.
And if you're not hydrated,then your tendons, your
ligaments, your musclesobviously become more brittle.
You don't have the ability topromote synovial fluid to your
joints.
So everything is gonna weardown a lot quicker.

(52:09):
Not just your ability toperform, but your ability to
have longevity in this game.
So, you know, I'd say focus onthat.

Philip Pape (52:17):
No, it's a good one.
Yeah, connective tissue.
Again, especially as we getolder, we seem to be more
sensitive to that.
And especially if you got intothis later, you know, I know
from personal experience, uhhydration is massive.
All right, man.
This has been awesome.
I think we covered some reallygood things, a lot of practical
tips from a guy who obviouslyhas a ton of experience.
So, where do you want people tofind you, Chris?
And we'll throw those in theshow notes so people can reach

(52:39):
out.

Kris Gethin (52:39):
Sure.
You know, if anybody has anyquestions whatsoever, they can
reach out to me on Instagram.
That's usually the best placeto find me, and I respond to my
DMs there as well.
So it's Chris K-R-I-S, Gethin,G-E-T-H-I-N.

Philip Pape (52:53):
That's it.
I G at Chris Gethin.
I'll throw that in there.
We'll connect everyone to you.
Also, check out Chris'spodcast.
A couple episodes ago, hetalked about building muscle,
losing fat, and mentioned someof the things he was discussing
here with preserving muscle.
So check out the show, checkout his IG.
Chris, it's been a blast.
Thank you so much for coming onon your treadmill.
Uh it's inspired me to get outas soon as we're done and move

(53:14):
around and get after it.

Kris Gethin (53:16):
All right, so I appreciate it, Philip.
Thank you guys.
Appreciate it.
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