Can You Lose Fat Without Tracking Macros? (Christina McClurken) | Ep 310 - Wits & Weights | Fat Loss, Nutrition, & Strength Training for Lifters

Episode Transcript
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Philip Pape (00:01):
If you've been tracking your food and logging
every gram of protein, carb andfat that crosses your lips, but
still struggle to see results,or, worse, you're exhausted by
the constant measuring andtracking, this episode is for
you.
My guest today has discoveredthat for many people, especially
those caught in chronic dietingcycles, tracking macros might

(00:21):
be masking deeper metabolicissues that no amount of
precision measuring can solve.
Christina McClurkin, known asyour Healthy Bestie, joins me to
discuss a surprisingly simpleapproach that's helped her
clients lose stubborn fatwithout the mental burden of
tracking macros.
Whether you're burned out fromtracking or simply curious about
alternative approaches, thisconversation will challenge you

(00:45):
to rethink what's trulynecessary for lasting fat loss
results.
Welcome to Wits and Weights, theshow that helps you build a
strong, healthy physique usingevidence, engineering and
efficiency.
I'm your host, Philip Pape, andtoday we're discussing an

(01:06):
approach to fat loss thatdoesn't rely on tracking every
calorie or macro, something manyof us in the evidence-based
fitness world, myself included,might find surprising.
You might think why am Italking about this on the show
when I'm such a data nerd?
Yet increasingly, it isrelevant if we are honest with
ourselves about the realunderlying principles, about
personalizing the experience tothe individual and what it truly
takes for.
Recently, it is relevant if weare honest with ourselves about
the real underlying principles,about personalizing the

(01:26):
experience to the individual andwhat it truly takes for fat
loss.
So my guest today is ChristinaMcClurkin known as your healthy
bestie, that's me.

Christina McClurken (01:35):
yeah, that's you all right, I love it.

And Christina began her career as a physical
therapist, specializing ingeriatrics, and that gave her
definitely a unique perspectiveon the long-term consequences of
neglecting health, which manyof us have probably seen with
individuals in our lives as theyget older.
And she wanted to break freefrom those patterns of diet
culture that she developedgrowing up in the 80s hey, we're

(01:59):
from the same generation, thatwe are.
And then she immersed herselfin the science of metabolism.
She developed a balanced eatingblueprint the balanced eating
blueprint and that's her programfocused on the six pillars of
sustainable weight loss, withoutconstant measuring or tracking.
So today you're going to learnhow understanding blood sugar
can reduce cravings and promoteenergy.

(02:20):
What's missing in your fat lossjourney tips you can implement
today if you're looking for thatmore intuitive approach to
nutrition that still deliversresults.
Christina, welcome to the show.

Hi, philip, thank you so much for having me
.
I'm excited to be here.

And so let me just start with this right the
research.
The research seems to show thattracking calories and macros
improves your outcomes andmaintaining your results.
If so, why would anyone notwant to track?

Oh, my goodness, wow, do we have a
whole hour for this?
Yeah, I think there's.
First of all, there's researchto support just about anything
and everything.
Right, whether you or I agreewith it or not, I think that
that is something that we canagree on, right, that there's
lots of research.
I am a big scientific nerdmyself and I am all about N of

(03:09):
one, meaning you need to be anexperiment of your own one
person, because whatever theresearch says, it may work for
you and it may not.
So I gosh I can't remember whosequote it was I heard, but it
was said just let researchrefine your approach, but not
define your approach, because wecan kind of lose ourselves in
the weeds if we're constantlyfollowing the research, because
you could be jumping ship everytwo days on a new weight loss

(03:32):
approach.
So, you know, I find, as likeyou said, a female especially
who grew up in the eighties andI always like to say diet
culture is basically part of ourDNA, right, when we grow up,
then it's just kind of builtinto the hard wiring.
There is a part of our DNA,right, when we grow up, then
it's just kind of built into thehardwiring.
There is a lot of negativeconnotation and stress and

(03:54):
emotional weight no pun intendedthat comes along with
constantly looking at your foodas in a calorie or a macro or a
point or a container or whateverway you want to look at it.
So while it may be helpful forsome to know numbers and to do
that, it may not be helpful forsome, and that is part of what I
found for myself for a periodof time in my life and for a lot

(04:16):
of women that I coach.
And I say a period of time inmy life because, now that I've
healed my relationship with food, I'm okay counting numbers if I
need to for periods of time.
But I think we have to honoreach individual and where
they're coming from in theirjourney.
And, as you and I both know,stress is a big impediment to
weight loss.
So if stress comes from numbers, we have to find a way to work
around that too.

Yeah, beautifully said and, honestly, I agree with
everything you're saying andwe're not going to be arguing
today, trust me.
Yeah, some we're not going tobe arguing today, trust me, yeah
, it's.
Some of this is around thelanguage and also where people
are starting from and what wemean by these different things.
So you said N equals one, andwhen we say evidence-based, I
think a lot of people go toscientific studies and from you
and I are experienced.
Evidence is you, the person, aswell as the anecdotes, as well

(04:59):
as the coaching experience.
So, when we talk about tracking, there's different types of
tracking, right, and Idefinitely want to single out
calorie macro tracking, but thenI also want to understand okay,
so how do you help people buildawareness or get over the issue
that they're struggling withwith some form of measurement,
tracking, awareness, whateveryou want to call it, because

(05:20):
that's ultimately, I think, theprinciple that we're probably
going for.

Yeah, yeah, I absolutely have my clients
track and I think that'sultimately, I think, the
principle that we're probablygoing for.
Yeah, yeah, I absolutely havemy clients track and I think
that's a big misconception.
It's not that we're nottracking, but we just are not
tracking numbers in that stretchof the imagination for the most
part.
So the way I believe my program, which formerly was called the
Balanced Eating Blueprint, isnow called the Metabolic Revival
Method, and I did change itbecause it really is.
You know, I think when you makeput the word eating in a

(05:45):
program, it's great.
But nutrition is one of my sixpillars, which you know.
As we know, the metabolism is aholistic thing, and so I coach
on what I call my six pillars ofa healthy metabolism, and that
is nutrition, yes, but movement,sleep, stress, gut health and
mindset.
Because they are pillars, theydo not.
I don don't call them silosbecause they do not exist
separately, like they arepillars.

(06:06):
And if we are, you knowourselves are a building being
held up by all six.
They all need to be strong,right and never in order to have
a real high functioningmetabolism.
But when it comes to thenutrition pillar and we talk
about food I do have my clientstrack, but we're like old school
, literally hand tracking, and Isay that because you absolutely
have to bring awareness to whatyou're eating, right, what gets
measured, gets managed and ifwhat, I would say what we think

(06:28):
we're doing, what we're actuallydoing are two different things
until you go write it down.
So I do have my clients trackand that is our data really for
a lot of things, including notjust are we able to lose weight,
but are we properly balancingour macronutrients, how is our
energy?
Are we responding well to ourfood?
So you know, when I have myclients track, we're not just

(06:49):
looking at the calories and themacro breakdown, we're looking
at Did it keep you full andsatisfied?
Right Cause, that's not justabout the macro composition.
Did you enjoy the meal?
Were you gassy, bloated, brainfoggy?

after, or did you feel fueled and energized and
have mental clarity, so reallyactually getting in touch with
not only the food you're eatingbut how your body is uniquely
responding to those things?
This is great.

So you have them track with side-by-side
with each meal, those factors,right, if I've created my own
tracker unique that I use insidemy program, and it's not only
those factors, but also I letmeal timing right.
So I want to know when you ate.
I want to know why you ate,whether that was actual hunger
or sometimes obviously we eatout of, not out of hunger, right
, this world would not have aproblem if we only ate when we
were hungry.

(07:35):
But you know what, sometimes weeat for schedule, right.
Sometimes it's we had breakfastat eight and we're not really
hungry at 11, but we've got ameeting midday and we won't have
a chance to eat till three.
So sometimes we actually shouldeat for a scheduling purpose,
right.
So we're looking at all of thatsort of stuff.
So I track what they're havingwhen they're having a time of
day for meal timing, the moodthey're in when they're having

(07:56):
it right, because we shouldn'teat in a stressed state and then
, yes, how they feel after,whether they feel full,
satisfied, energized, mentalclarity or bloated, gassy, brain
, foggy, tired, need a nap, thatkind of stuff.

And how would you compare that to?
So, when people think oftracking and you mentioned how
it's stressful, it'soverwhelming or it's obsessive
or whatever the word is wheremost people think of an app a
food tracking app, a foodlogging app right, and I agree
that many of those apps are justterribly designed as well, and
they're also they're good atshaming you when you don't hit
targets and things like that.
How much of that is part of theproblem versus if you know.

(08:33):
If your hand tracking was anapp, would that be like the best
a good food tracking app, yeah,yeah.

I think one of the challenges that I find
with apps like MyFitnessPal, Iuse chronometer with my clients
who are tracking so we can seenutrient density and everything.
But I think part of the problemis is that as soon as we throw
an number, even if you tellsomeone not to look at the
numbers, and soon as we thrownumbers in there, a lot of
people have these again,especially if you've come from I

(08:59):
work with a lot of women rightof my age group so who come from
diet culture.
They see a number of grams ofcarbs that must be too much,
right, there's automaticallythis I feel like dieting has rid
women in particular of theirself-trust and they can't feel
like they can't trust their bodyto know.
None of my clients, when theycome in, are barely ever in

(09:20):
touch with their hunger cues.
Right, it's externally drivenlike well, this is an
appropriate number or portion orsize.
But if you took two people andask them that like right, it's
completely different dependingon what preconceived notions
they come in with.
So I just find that sometimes,sometimes the visible numbers
are helpful for people and I'mall about using when they are

(09:40):
oftentimes in the initial stages, when women have been tracking
by calories or macros orsomething for a long time.
They're so swayed by those thatit's hard to get in touch with
their own hunger cues, satietycues, relationship with food
issues.
So I find that removing thosenumbers for a period of time can
be helpful to actually get themback into touch.

(10:01):
Like why am I eating?
Am I actually hungry for this?
Am I trying to hit a numberRight?
Those sorts of things.

That makes a lot of sense, because these things can
be a distraction, right?
They're like this short-termmetric that, honestly, is
meaningless in the moment untilit's taken in context and
connected to something else.
And I wonder so, how do youfeel about the scale?
Because that's anothercontroversial area where one of
my struggles with clients is.
You know, we want to have dataover time, but I also don't want
them to even care what'shappening day to day because it

(10:28):
fluctuates so much.
What are your thoughts on that?

Yeah, so I do and again, very individual
with my clients.
In general, I do recommend useof the scale on a daily basis
and part of the reason is toactually decrease that emotional
attachment to it.
So, you know, I show themgraphs over time and really
explain that it we do have tozoom out right.
This is this is not day to daythat we're looking for.
We're looking for week to weekaverages and even as a female if

(10:52):
I have females that are stillcycling, we're look.
We're not, you know, a male youcould compare average week one
to two to three to four to fivewomen I'm looking at, you know,
period week of month one toperiod, week of month two.
Pms week of month one to two.
What are those sways?
I use it again as data for themto get to know their bodies and
this is also how I can teachthem that there are different

(11:13):
things that affect the scalethan just what you ate, because
women, when they start doingthis, will learn that they could
eat the same thing five days ina row and their scale is up and
down and they're like what theheck?
I must need to eat less.
I'm like, no, you know, this isnatural fluctuations, it can
fuck me.
This is why we track on ourtrackers also how much they
slept the night before, right,what their water intake is.

(11:34):
So it's a learning tool for meto be able to use it with them
to explain that okay, you see,the scale went up.
I, I must have to eat less.
I see you slept three hours thenight before, right, you're
stressed because you have adeadline at work and your kids
are this.
So they start to see thecorrelation between these other
factors and the scale and thatwhen they start managing stress,

(11:55):
that comes down.
So it really does actually helpthat detach that emotion from
it.

Yeah, and I'm going to put you in the same league
as Holly Baxter, who I recentlyinterviewed, and she brought up
something similar with fiber.
Right, how you know the intakeof fiber and carbs and things
can just massively change yourfluid retention and thus your
scale weight, but connecting toit is the key that you keep
coming back to.
This is like the theme.
So then, if you're starting tomake those connections for your
hunger signals and what you eat,when you eat, when you need it,

(12:23):
et cetera, where does a targetor a goal come in?

Yeah, well, do you mean in terms of like
actual?

nutrition, what you eat, how much you eat, things
like that.
Like, if you have a fat lossgoal, you got it.

Yeah.
So I use a plating system withmy clients a visible kind of
visual plate, and built intothat is ensuring they're getting
enough fiber and protein.
So each plate should have twoto three cups of veggies.
Breakfast is a bonus Noteverybody does that but at least
lunch and dinner 30 plus gramsof protein, and then the fats
and the carbs are what we toggle.
That's what's variable.

(12:56):
So I always say protein andproduce constant.
Other ones are variables andthat is where we toggle.
So this is where a lot of womencome in, and you I'm sure you
see this a lot.
I'm eating healthy but I'm notlosing weight.
Well, you can be eating healthyand maintenance.
I eat.
Once you get to your goalweight, I'm sure you're going to
be eating healthy andmaintaining Right.
So when we start tracking theythey under.
I teach them about the plate,the guidelines why I'm a big fan

(13:19):
of.
If you understand why, likethat, fiber helps stretch your
stomach, turns off your hungerhormones, keeps you full protein
.
Same thing turns down yourhunger hormones.
So they understand why they'recreating that plate the way they
are and that they have thefreedom and flexibility and that
not every day needs to lookexactly the same.
I think it would be strange ifwe were all the exact same
amount of hungry every singleday, right?

(13:39):
So it gives them that littlebit of freedom.
And then, when I look at theirdata again, we're going to look
at like a seven day period oftracking and once we have your
plates balanced and you'reeating fiber, protein, fats,
carbs and scale staying the same, then I say okay, what we're
going to do is we're going toskim down those fats and carbs
just a little bit off every mealand, for example, that can look

(14:01):
like taking a half a cup ofrice down to a third a cup, like
a half an avocado down to aquarter of an avocado, and then
they can still keep the sameflavor profile of their meals.
Right, it tastes the samebecause we're going to do little
bits off all meals.
They don't even really notice adifference.
And it's a very easy way to putsomeone into a calorie deficit
without them feeling like theyhave to remove their favorite
foods or, you know, leave thingsout, or I feel like they have

(14:23):
to measure it down to the gram.
And it gives them that freedomand flexibility to also just,
you know, maybe there's a mealthey say I don't really want the
carbs here, because I'm goingout to dinner, I know I'm going
to have actually, you know,quite a bit more.
So that's flexible like that.

I hear you.
My wife's birthday is next weekand I'm in a fat loss phase.
So I'm thinking about I alreadyordered her a cake and we're
going out to a nice restaurant.
So you know, you got to makethat work.
So what's cool is that you'regetting to the same behaviors
through different methods, asthe way I'll put it in that,
like if somebody was trackingmacros, what would change in a

(14:57):
fat loss?
Well, the fats and carbs wouldcome down, and if you're not
downing with protein and fiber,you're going to get super hungry
and you're not going to hold onto muscle.
So you're kind of approachingit just from a different angle,
which I love.
What about the situation wheresomeone the aggressiveness of
the fat loss is a factor andkind of the amount somebody is
hoping to lose, let's say, um,that's going to affect all of
this.
So there's a patient'scomponent to this, I imagine.

(15:19):
Like I've got 30 pounds to lose, but like you know how hungry
do you want them to kind ofaccept, or are they doing this
in a way that they're notaccepting too much hunger?
Or you know what's your metricfor that?

My metric for that is I tell people when
we're in a weight loss phase,like your goal is to lose and
again, fat loss phase, becauseobviously the method I use is
based on fat loss, but I thinkmy clientele tends to use the
words weight loss more right isbased on fat loss, but I think
my clientele tends to use thewords weight loss more right.
But basically I tell them, ifwe could eat to about 80%
fullness, meaning at the end ofevery meal, you could eat more,
but you don't have to right?

(15:53):
I think we all know thatfeeling where it's like, yeah,
I'm not stuffed, I could eat,but I don't really have to.
And so that's usually the kindof guideline I give people to go
by when we're in a maintenancephase.
Then we can eat till we're likewe're full, right, like that
meal, like I don't think I couldhave anymore.
And again, you're not going todo that every meal of the day or
you'd probably end up being ina surplus.
But that's kind of how I tieinto like what is it that

(16:16):
feeling?
So I don't have to rely on anexternal number to know I'm in a
deficit.
And then the other thing is is Itell people.
That's why we're looking atyour weekly average weight.
Guess what?
If you're learning that feelingof eating to about 80% full and
the scale is going down, guesswhat?
You're in a deficit.
And you didn't need to look ata number to know you're in a
deficit, like we're figuringthat out.
Or if it's not the scale that'sgoing down, it's your inches,

(16:37):
right?
Like that's the other thing.
Program.
This is not going to be likeyou went on up to be a and you
dropped 20 pounds in a month,because that would be you know
the incorrect way, which is whyyou gain it back, right.
So I always say when you losethree to five pounds in my
program, it's going to feel likeyou, like 15 in a different,

(17:00):
because they're losing so manyinches, right.
So that's kind of a say likewhen we look at the data, if
either the scale's going down oryour inches are going down, we
know we're in a deficit or acorrect fat loss, without having
to actually be like you knowweighing your chicken breast.

Yeah, and it makes a lot of sense for folks who
track or don't track whenthey've at least mastered these
skills you kind of get in tunewith.
This is the level of hunger orfullness I have, and I know from
having just having tuna on some.
I actually use some low carbbread.
That's one of my processedfoods when I'm in fat loss.
Uh, I ate that and I'm like Ihave an apple over here, but I'm
gonna save that for my snacklater Cause I'm good.

(17:40):
You know you just kind of likegood, you get used.
People are hearing this and Iknow you want to get them ready,
like you need to be ready,including the emotional side and
the cravings, and some peopleare going to take longer than
others.
What are your criteria to beready?

Yeah.
So we start, um, you know myprogram with what I call a
priming phase and that is wherefor me it's all biofeedback
based.
So if people aren't familiarwith that term, you know
biofeedback is your hunger.
I always say, because I workwith women, like, ask yourself
how is she feeling?
And then it's like she S, s, h?
E.
So sleep, stress, hunger,energy, and you know hunger goes
with cravings, energy also goesalong with mood and recovery

(18:17):
from your workout.
So those are my criteria.
I will.
I will not put somebody into aattempt at fat loss or weight
loss until we're sleeping well,right, stress is well managed,
hunger is controlled, craving no, no outlandish cravings.
Energy is good and if they areactive and you know the
recovering from their workouts.
So really the criteria is thatwe learn how to balance our

(18:38):
plates so they're eating by themeal structure, right, we're
hitting protein goals, whichagain, at least 30 grams at the
meals, but that I help everyoneindividually figure out what is
their goal, based on whetherthey're looking to maintain
right, their their weight lossgoal, and then if, obviously
it's very hard for people to getthat in three meals, so then we
add in strategic protein snacks, et cetera.
So I have to make sure peopleare hitting their you know,
getting enough fiber, gettingtheir protein.

(19:00):
They have their balance platesdown.
We're at a place where they'renot feeling restricted, deprived
, binging behavior, any of that.
They're sleeping well, theirenergy is good.
So if all biofeedback is goodand they've learned their plate
structure, then we can startthat's kind of like the
foundational and then we canstart that kind of skimming

(19:21):
process of skimming things down.
But I, you know, I always tellwomen that you have to look at
the whole body and the person inwhich you are trying to
approach fat loss.
Because if you're mentallyready but your life is a big
stress bucket at the moment,right, dieting is a stressor,
fat loss is a stressor.
So I always tell people that itstill might not be the right
time.
There's plenty of progress tobe made in maintenance.
So we have to look at not onlyyou know, are your plates in

(19:44):
order, but like what's going onin your life at the moment too,
to make sure it's the right time.

Yeah, and are you?
I assume there's some level of,I'll say, tolerance or flex,
depending on it's like arelative improvement for the
person right, or you don't wanteverybody to be a 10 out of 10
on everything?

No, oh gosh , no, and yeah it.
You know, and this is like youknow, as a coach, and that's why
there's nuance.
And then the human coach you'recoaching, right?
That's why I say N of one,right.
So there's some people that are, you know, take a little bit
longer right To really kind ofunderstand.
There's other people that arejust given the surface of
balance in their meals andthey're ready, you know.
So it all kind of depends and,like I said, it depends on the

(20:18):
dining history and how long theyhave.
If someone came into my programand has been under eating for,
you know, a decade, five years,even one year, or have come off
a program like Optivia orsomething like that, we're going
to balance their plates andbuild them up to like a good
maintenance and learn that andstay there for a little bit,
right, before we pull thetrigger to skim, just like you

(20:39):
would with anybody else, becausewe have to keep in mind, you
know, how adapted or maladaptedtheir metabolism is when they
come into the program too.
So that history plays into it,yep.

And again, I'm always asking for a friend on
the show because my whole, ourwhole audience is friends.
There might be people new tothe show.
People have no clue who I am oryou are.
I'm playing the idiot here asif I don't know any of this
stuff, but half of it I mightnot, because you have your own
unique approach.
So blood sugar I want to.
I want to touch on that becauseI do love this topic.
I think it can get misconstruedand it could get definitely

(21:11):
overhyped like fear mongered,but there's I talk about all the
time as like a massive gamechanger, if you do it right.
So so talk about what thatmeans blood sugar balancing or
using blood sugar as a metric toimprove your food.

Yeah, and I get a lot of with the social
media world right now andeveryone wearing their CGMs or
continuous glucose monitors andstuff.
I get a lot of questions do Ineed one?
I'm like no, no, no, because wecan tell.

If you wear one of those, it's going to tell you
not to eat potatoes, right?
Well, so in here, yeah.

And then you won't.
But again, I think the normalperson doesn't quite know how to
, you know, interpret the data.
So you know, I always tellpeople when let's tie it into
symptoms, right, someone comesto you.
They're like I'm constantlyhungry, I've got a lot of
cravings, or I have a 2 PMenergy crash, or I'm in the
kitchen late at night, right.
So when I, when, when we talkabout balanced blood sugar
versus erratic and imbalancedblood sugar, the erratic and

(22:02):
imbalanced blood sugar iscreating mood swings, energy
dips, like highs and lows,cravings, hunger, so it's, that
is your body's interpretation ofthe highs and lows of a blood
sugar.
I always tell people thinkabout, like the six flags, like
the biggest rollercoaster in theplace, right, the highs and the
lows, the ups and the downs.
That's what we want to avoid.
We want to be on the littlekiddie roller coaster that has,

(22:23):
like you know, it looks like alazy river kind of thing.
Because, when you know, bloodsugar rises and dips are natural
and when you eat food, right,it's going to change.
But we want to avoid those highswings and lows because those
are typically what's creatingthe primary complaints of people
who are coming in strugglingwith nutrition and weight loss
right.
They have hunger they try to.
They have cravings, theirenergy dips, they need the

(22:50):
caffeine and the sugar atmid-afternoon.
So built into the structure ofmy plate is keeping your blood
sugar balanced right.
So when we have ourcarbohydrates in the presence of
protein and fiber right, itmitigates the effect on our
blood sugar and that's whathelps keep us on that kiddie
roller coaster.
So I really kind of I'm a bigfan of you know give a man a
fish he eats once.
Teach a man a fish he eats forlife, like I really teach women

(23:10):
about how their body is workingand how the foods they eat and
in the way they which they eatthem is impacting their blood
sugar.
I call it really foodorganization, not elimination.

Yeah, I love that because even how you sequence
your foods in a meal can have aneffect on those right, and
people don't understand that.
And it doesn't have to becomplicated.
It sounds like even justbalancing your macros throughout
the day could help a lot offolks who are normally jumping
protein over here and then carbsover here.
Where does walking, movementand even strength training fit
into the blood sugar equation?

Yeah.
So movement is the secondpillar of my program and that
encompasses both exercise andnon-exercise movement.
And so you know, when it comesfrom the way our metabolism is
broken down, our total dailyenergy expenditure, you know,
15% of the calories you burncomes from non-exercise movement
, 5% from exercise.
So the first thing I teachwomen is that we don't have to
be stressed about not workingout seven days a week, right,

(24:02):
Because the non-exercisemovement is more important when
it comes to blood sugar.
They both have a huge impact,right.
So the more non-exercisemovement we do, particularly
timing your walks after mealsand such, obviously helps
balance your blood sugar,because your muscles are your
biggest uptakes of glucose.
So you eat a meal, you've gotglucose in your blood, If you
can put that to use, so go for awalk.

(24:22):
Or if you can't go for a walk,do 50 chair squats, go up and
down the stairs in your house orwalk down the hall at work or
whatever.
You're going to be utilizingthat blood, that sugar from your
meal.
So it's not going to be freefloating in your blood and
keeping your blood sugar spiked.
When it comes to exercise and,of course, weightlifting is what
I recommend that women aredoing and everyone really is
doing again, your muscles areyour biggest stores of your

(24:45):
glucose, so you will absolutelyhave a better blood sugar
response and insulin responsewhen you can build more lean
muscle tissue and when we'reexercising we actually don't
need insulin to take that sugarinto our blood as well, so it
helps with insulin resistanceand really our overall insulin
sensitivity.

Yeah, I like that.
I like to reframe insulin as ahuge friend of ours when we lift
weights.
You know it's a massive friendfor shuttling nutrients and
stuff.
Cool.
So when you one other thing youmentioned was um, you know, or
maybe you didn't mention thislet's talk about processed foods
and indulgences.
Right, that's a big one,because we're big into
flexibility and if people arecoming to you struggling with

(25:23):
emotional eating and you knowthey binge on that chocolate or
they eat the baked goods or thedonuts and the message is like,
well, you can probably still eatthose, but you know, how do we
make this all work?

Yeah, yeah.
Well.
So the first thing I always sayis my approach is definitely a
health first weight loss andhealth first fat loss.
So I always tell women, likefood quality matters, right, and
not only matters for, as weknow, you know, staying full and
all that stuff.
But it really does matter interms of we are doing everything
we're doing to promote health.
I will never assist someone inweight loss.
That's going to be detrimentalto their health, but food

(25:56):
quality does matter because Ithink this world is over
obsessed with macronutrients andnobody's talking about
micronutrients and it is thevitamins, the minerals, like all
of those things that we needthat come from our foods that
are giving us that glowing skinand shiny hair and good energy
and really essential for everymicroscopic process and cellular

(26:16):
turnover that's going on inyour body.
So we can't ignore food quality.
The way I teach women, becauseit is not.
I think that you know whenpeople say 80, 20, right, like
that works for some people, somepeople like 90, 10, some 70, 30
, like it's a hard thing tofollow.
I call and this is exactly howI teach my kids, which is a
great thing, because I feel likeyou know, working with women
that have kids.
I say we have our empoweredchoices for food, which those

(26:38):
are the whole foods.
And then we have our sometimesfoods, and that's how I call
them sometimes foods, becauseyou know, fruits, veggies, whole
grains, protein, lean proteinyou can eat those at any meal,
anytime.
But the things like the cake,the cookies, the donuts, the ice
cream, those are for sometimes,they're just not all the time
food, and so it's a really greatway for people to grasp concept
.
Like, yeah, I can have thosesometimes and we're.

(27:03):
When we're working on weightloss, I always say it's about
aligning your actions with yourgoals, and so sometimes, if a
woman has a week where, let'sjust say, all her meals, yes,
are balanced and she's sleepingwell and her stress is managed,
she's doing her movement, butthe scale is not moving.
You know, one of the firstthings we do is we look back and
say, well, like, how many daysdid you include some sometimes
foods?
Right, because maybe that snackis a little less favorable.
Or, you know, end of the daywith some wine or some ice cream

(27:25):
, and it might be four days.
I'm like, okay, well, thatmight be enough to put you in
maintenance right now.
So what if next week.
We just take that down to likeone or two and that's a simple
way to track where they don'tfeel restricted and they just
know okay, this is also teachingpeople to be intentional.
Think ahead, look at your week.
What do you have going on?
Yeah, maybe there's a dinnerout on Friday and you know
that's the day you want yoursometimes food.
So Monday through Thursdayyou're just going to keep it

(27:46):
pretty clean, right, and thenthey can see that if the scale
goes down the next week, that'show they're learning their
threshold of in weight loss mode.
How frequently can I, you know,have some of those less than
empowered choices?
Okay, and then when I'm inmaintenance, maybe that can be
three days a week and I'm good.
So it's a really nice way tohelp people kind of learn that
like, yeah, you have that wiggleroom for the fun and that sort

(28:08):
of stuff, but we're stilllooking at again when we're
tracking, how it's making youfeel like.
Did you wake up with a headachethe next day?
Did you feel like crap?
Because then it doesn't become.
I've told you you can't haveanything, because I will never.
I can't, it becomes.
I'm choosing not to have thatbecause I now I don't want to
feel that way anymore, you know.

You're a beast at the psychology, because this is
what it's all about, right,christina, like it really is,
and you kind of train yourself.
It sounds like if you put inplace a lot of what you've
talked about already, like fiber, blood sugar balance, enough
protein, a lot of those tend toteach people to like those foods
more anyway, and you get to.
You know, I don't feel greatwhen I go to the restaurant, or
I don't feel great when I havetoo much of this food over here.

(28:44):
Uh, sometimes food, so if it'smore than sometimes, maybe
that's that's the thing.

Look at the frequency of it Right, yeah,
yeah, yeah.

All right.
So you've got somebody into fatloss.
They've dialed in some of thesethings.
They're not perfect, you know80%, like, like many of us, um,
and metabolic adaptation isgoing to happen.
Right, you're going.
This is just inevitable foreverybody listening, metabolism
is going to decline duringfallacy, even if you're doing it
at a reasonable glide path.
And normally somebody goingthrough that with this history

(29:14):
of, say, yo-yo dieting, it'd bethis massive uncertainty and
black hole of what's going on.
And now I feel like I can'tlose weight, right.
So when you're working withwomen, they've gotten to this
good state they're in fat loss.
How do you deal with that?

Uh, yeah, and again, just kind of on a
case by case basis, and, as youknow, it all comes with like
what their dieting history was,how long they've done it, et
cetera.
So, uh, it let's just say twodifferent avatars.
So, for example, one woman whomaybe has 80 pounds to lose,
right, and she's been in a fatloss phase, weight loss phase,
and she's lost about 45 of it.
But you know, we're six monthsdown the road.

(29:49):
Uh, we take a break and that'sprobably one of the hardest
things to convince people of,cause I think a lot of people,
women, everyone thinks that it'slike, from this way to go, wait
is, as certainly you know,point A to point B.
We're not stopping or taking adetour, but, as you know and
this is where I come fromeducating about how their body
works is that that adaptation ishappening and that we do need a

(30:11):
break for the body and also themind.
And that's the other thing isthere's a level of burnout when
someone has this moresignificant amount of weight to
lose.
Right To be focusing on weightloss for so long.
So I tend to do that season,like on a season by season basis
, right?
So I had a lot of women who Iactually had them take a
maintenance break over theholidays because guess what?
Maintenance is a skill.
So to learn.

(30:31):
I think so many of us come from.
We're either in a in a mode oflosing weight or we're gaining
weight and that we don't knowhow to just kind of pause and
maintain.
So I have people, if they havea long time, a lot of weight to
lose and we need to take thatlittle break to prevent any sort
of too much adaptation, that wetake a maintenance break.
And just how I taught you ishow we analyze, you know, when

(30:51):
we're in weight loss versusmaintenance, what do they get to
do?
In maintenance?
That can look like differentfor everybody.
If someone likes to includemore, sometimes foods, maybe
that's what it looks like.
If someone just wants to eat alittle bit more at every meal,
like even like then morenutritious fats and carbs, add
those like increase a little bitright, maximize your energy,
lift a little bit more right,think all this.
There's so many things that canhappen and it's a skill to
learn how to maintain and notgain right?

(31:13):
So we take breaks and then weresume.
So I did a lot of that withpeople over the holidays and we
resumed in January and thencontinued into weight loss mode
and now they feel like theybuilt that little bit of trust
in themselves Like, wow, I canmost people are.
I used to gain five pounds overthe holiday.
Now I actually know how tomaintain and then I can go back
and lose some more and I'mrefreshed for it.
So I definitely incorporatebreaks If someone has maybe just

(31:40):
comes in and they only have,you know, under 20 pounds to
lose.
Oftentimes we don't need toinstitute that in terms of the
adaptation, but sometimes we dofor the psychology, like you
said, the psychology piece, themindset piece.
Sometimes it can be like I'vegot a calendar where a month of
travel for work and socialevents and everything and and
honestly, like let's justmaintain because that's what a
month is a really short periodof time and you can get right
back out after.
And sometimes that stress oftrying to be focused on weight

(32:02):
loss when food is out of yourcontrol a little bit more often
we're traveling, then we don'tneed that added stress.
So let's focus on movement,let's focus on stress management
, let's focus on sleep, mindset,work and then slide back into a
weight loss, fat loss modeafter.
So it can be seasonally, it canbe situationally and again, I
think it's just all embedded inthat is helping women understand

(32:24):
that they can start to trusttheir bodies again, that they're
not going to, just like youknow, turn on them.

Yeah, that confidence in physique
development and or not, it's notjust your physique, but you
know what I mean your body,being able to control it, and
control, not gaining and notjust losing is really powerful
because, like you said, then youcould go after it with a
newfound energy.
I wonder how?
So what about the extreme casewhere someone has a very
over-responsive metabolism right, it drops a lot, like you know

(32:52):
you've seen these avatars.
It runs the gamut where theywould just have to really eat a
lot fewer calories to continuewith that pace.
Do you reassess and say, um,where they would just have to
really eat a lot fewer caloriesto continue with that pace.
Do you reassess and say, hey,we're going to slow down the end
goal of where you're going toget to, or what Cause, even if
you take a break, it's going toresume at that level?

Yeah, I go really biofeedback based, Like I
said the body will not lie toyou.
So I feel like if people, if Ido start to notice, like people
are telling me I have morecravings this week, or I found
myself, like you know, justthinking about that ice cream in
my freezer every night, thosesorts of things, or gosh my
workouts, I just can't, I'm soreall the time, you know.
So it really kind of depends onI go by biofeedback, because

(33:30):
that really is the language ofyour metabolism.
I always tell you if you canlearn how to speak metabolism,
which is those sorts of thingslike, then you can kind of know.
So if someone's biofeedback isall good and they're still
losing weight, and even if itseems like, well, we probably
should take a break.
But biofeedback is fine, Idon't mess with anything.
Right, I don't, I don't messwith anything.
It's only when I start to seebiofeedback start to suffer,

(33:51):
that then we will maybe put thepause on things until everything
.
Then we build that back up, getbiofeedback where we want it
and then resume.

Okay, cool.
And when somebody takes a break?
So here's where, like, ourapproaches are slightly
different in what we tracksometimes.
But like one thing I like, Idefinitely like to calculate
someone's TDEE based on theirfood and weight and you'll see
situations where when you dotake a break, they're not eating
enough to fully recover.
They're kind of like hoveringright under there and partly
it's because the skill you'vegiven them kind of allows them

(34:22):
to stay in that state without itfeeling too bad, but it also
kind of slows down that recovery.
So how do you help address that?
Again, is it biofeedback?

still, yeah , no, I definitely do kind of
exactly the opposite of what wedo to lose like skim, fats and
carbs, and you don't reallynotice the difference.
I strategically instruct themhow to add that in without
really noticing like they'regoing to get over full right.
So, oh.
So I know you're feeling prettycomfortable with that.
You know like half a cup ofoats at breakfast and you know I
don't know like one tablespoonof dressing at lunch on your

(34:52):
salad.
Why don't we actually bump thatup a little bit?
You know a little bit more oats, three quarters a cup, maybe
put two tablespoons on.
So you're not really noticingit.
It's not making you feel thatyou're not feeling overstuffed,
we're not getting digestivedistress, but I know in my head
that like that's a simple way toadd 150, 200 calories a day
without peanut butter.
Yeah, that's what I said.
I said give me a drop of peanutbutter, I can crush that in

(35:14):
like 30 seconds so I get 500extra calories.
But yeah, so that's really howI do it.
It's kind of teaching them thatsame skill without having to
look at the number.
Like let's just incrementallyadd a little bit, nourish your
body, because when we eat notenough, there's always some
system of our body that's havingto pull from and we don't want
that right.
So kind of explaining to themthat, like that's again how your
body's working.

(35:34):
So we need to actually boostthat back up.
And that's the same method Itake with them at the end, when
we're kind of you know whateveryone else would technically
call a reverse diet.
I call it like we're just goingto fuel you back up.
So, yeah, you feel good becauseyour hunger hormones are
controlled, but now we're goingto slowly and incrementally add
back in so that you don't gain.

You don't really notice it, but now we're giving
your body more of what it needsPosing that loop again where you
said maintenance is a skill andthey'll know that, when all is
said and done, they'll be ableto sustain these results forever
.
What about?
Do you use refeeds or kind ofcalorie cycling?
Again, I know you're nottracking calories, but you said
seasonally.
So I assume even week to weekor intro week, you might have

(36:11):
people change their patterns.

Yeah, yeah.
And that again is, you know, Idon't tend to.
I don't tend to attract peoplewho are I don't want to say
attract Most of my clientele isnot maybe like lifting so
significantly heavy or intenselythat they need these refeeds.
I'm often working with more ofthe perimenopausal woman who
needs to learn how to scale backon the intensity of the

(36:34):
exercise and that sort of stuff.
So typically with my clientelewe're not really there where we
need like refeed.
I again am all about the moreso, yeah, the mental and the
physical break.
So if it happens to be, youknow, a weekend where there's a
couple nights out or a couplenights where you just have more
or whatever, like great thatyour body needed, that you use

(36:55):
that, put it to use for a greatworkout the day after.
But it's not so likestrategically planned in, it's
more self-guided or, like I said, I kind of use that intuition
with them.

Which is consistent with it computes, and also the
word refeed.
All these terms we use are souh, I don't want to say they're
pretentious sometimes, butsometimes they are, like you
said, reverse dieting.
Um, it's funny.

Well, I think the only reason I put that
in air quotes because I alwaysapproach my program where it's
not a diet, right, it's alifestyle.
But that's how I explain thatis a phase of my metabolic
mastery program, which is what Icall stabilization, meaning
we're now going to stabilize youat this new weight eating more,
and it essentially is thereverse diet, which is what most
people would term.
You know, term it yes.

Yeah, let's talk about sleep and stress.
I know you mentioned themearlier.
You can lump them together, butalso not there's very distinct
things about them.
So there's a lot of conventionalwisdom or like the same old
kind of advice about both.
Like for sleep, it's okay, youneed a certain amount of hours
of sleep, you need to do allthese hacks not hacks, but you
know change your environment.
Ritual, sleep ritual, blah,blah, blah.

(37:59):
And then for stress, the talkis always about sleep or stress.
Um, coping mechanisms.
Uh, is that the way that youframe this, or is there?

a more targeted, practical approach for
people.
Yeah, when I talk about stress,I use the term stress Cause
that's what you know translatesto people.
I really mean nervous systemregulation.
So you know, we, as we know,and I explained to my clients we
have two arms of our nervoussystem sympathetic,
parasympathetic, right,sympathetic is that fight or
flight which most women are infrom the minute they get up to
the minute they go to bed.

(38:31):
It is go mode until you hit thepillow.
And then parasympathetic, thatrest and digest which none of us
are really accessing during theday.
So you know, the way I explainit again is that that is the
shift that happens with thefemale metabolism as we enter
perimenopause is we are lessstress resilient and more
sensitive to stress.
And when I say stress, it can bein all forms.
A lot of people think theperceived stress like I got a
deadline at work, my kids aredriving me crazy, I'm playing

(38:52):
parent Uber, I've got sportsgames to go to, right.
But that's one form of that'sperceived stress.
But there is circadian stress,which is where sleep comes into
the stress mix there are.
There is stress from, you know,imbalanced blood sugar.
That's inflammatory stress,right, there's.
There's stress in our body onthat.
There's stress from the toxinsin the food we eat and the
environment we have in ourcleaning products and our all of

(39:13):
that sort of stuff.
So, um, and there's stress fromexercising too much, right,
there's stress from moving toolittle.
So it really is.
When I talk about stress, it'sabout mitigating all forms of
stress on the body as best wecan.
And that's where you'll hearsleep like tied into that, even
though I think sleep is its ownseparate entity.
But I really kind of amtraining women.
When you're thinking of theperceived stress is that we're

(39:35):
looking at nervous systemregulation.
So how often during the day canwe activate that
parasympathetic nervous system?
Because when that's activated,the sympathetic is not.
They cannot be going at thesame time.
So using simple things likebreath work, right, like three
squared breaths, quickest way toactivate your parasympathetic
nervous system grounding, youknow, can be things like a
guided meditation, a quickgratitude practice, a journaling

(39:56):
.
So when we're talking stress,as in the perceived stress, um,
that is really how I'm talkingabout it.
It's like let's actually talkabout it as nervous system
regulation.
So taking out out of our stressnervous system and into our
rest nervous system.

And what are your thoughts when it comes to
perceived stress, if you can'tchange a situation right which
is oftentimes true, but twodifferent people perceive the
same stressor differently,causing different internal
stress in that part of thenervous system, so do you talk
through that?
Are there mechanisms wherepeople can let things go when
they happen to them?

Yeah, yeah, and.
I use a lot of.
That's where it comes from.
It's not about, like,everyone's perception, like you
said, it's different.
This is subjective, it's notobjective.
So it's more about you know.
I always get that cliche sayinglike what happens around you is
not a match for what happenswithin you.
So it's like it's not aboutremoving the stressors in your
life.
We're about mitigating thestress on your nervous system.

(40:49):
So it might take somebody, youknow, and that's some salt bath
for a half hour, some legs upagainst the wall of meditation
and 20 minutes of breathing toget over a snafu during their
day, where for somebody else itmight take, okay, a quick little
release, like, and that's it.
So that's on a person to personbasis.
It's about how, you know, Ialways say we have this like
stress management toolbox andit's like how many tools do we

(41:11):
need to pull out of the toolboxat any given time?
And that is going to be basedon your perceived amount of
stress.
So, um, you know, for oneperson it might mean like, yeah,
let's just insert a little bitof midday breath work like a
physiological site, and that'senough for them.
For someone else, it's likewell, I'm doing that, but I'm
still, like you know short, withmy kids craving sweets and all
this stuff, then we need to addin a little bit more layers to

(41:32):
that puzzle.

Okay, and I asked do you know Adam Badger?
And he's in our group.

Yeah, he's local to me.
Actually I was on his podcast.

So he was on the show, I was on his and he was on
my show and his episode will becoming out soon Probably a
little before yours actually andone of his specialties seems to
be helping people understandthe trigger of why they react
the way they do to stressors,and I just thought that was a

(42:00):
very intriguing.
Yet other helpful angle forfolks, cause I was thinking of
my own life, how I used to likebe road rage was easy to come to
me and then I, and then I hadkids and I got too many speeding
tickets and I started to likeactually obey the speeding laws
and then when I met my wife waslike super kind and forgiving of
people and she'd be like thatguy's just having a bad day and
I started to integrate thatthinking just by osmosis.
We're now like all this shit onthe road doesn't really affect

(42:22):
me and I'm like, well, can wetrain ourselves by digging into
the tree?
That's why I bring it up.
It's just a cool.
No, I love that.
I'm actually reading.

I don't know if you've ever heard of the
motion code and the body code,so I just but yeah, I use a lot
of you know and just pullingfrom my own experience because,
as we were talking about thecancer card of my family before
you know, when I was goingthrough some real hard times
with my sister being ill and I'man empath and I worked in

(42:50):
healthcare and I was workingwith sick patients, I was just
holding everything right, likeeverything.

Oh, you were a vessel for everyone's emotional
stress.

And so you were a vessel for everyone's
emotional stress, and so I dowork with women on specific
mantras and things andaffirmations that can help them.
So one of my favorite ones thathas become now a favorite of my
clients is when you'resupporting people through things
, I would say to myself I helpbut I don't hold.
I'm helping you but I'm notholding this energy.
Or I care but I don't carry.
I care about you but I'm notcarrying this as something
that's happening to me or you,but I'm not carrying this as
like something that's happeningto me.
And or deep breaths, like youknow, inhaling, saying I release
and a big, open mouth exhale, Ilet go.

(43:23):
So I really use kind ofstrategic things and mantras
because, as we know, those haveto like, resonate with you, to
use, but like for eachindividual and whatever they're
going through.
And this is why coaching iscoaching right, it's not a
transfer of information, it'snot just I manage your stress
and get seven, eight hours ofsleep.
It's like let's actually diginto your own stressors and what
will help you around that.
So, yeah, I definitely believethere is a nuance to all of that

(43:46):
, depending on the person,depending on how they react in
response to certain things, andthen what tools I can give them
to help them manage that ontheir own.
Got it.

Berkeley (44:02):
Hello, I am Berkeley and I wanted to give a huge
thank you to Philip of Wits andWeights.
He has helped me so much, gaveme a completely free 30 minute
call where he answered all of myquestions, gave lots of great
insight into programming andnutrition.
All of his content is reallywonderful and he has a great
Facebook group that issupportive and informational.

(44:23):
He has tons of free resourcesthat I really really enjoy and
they're all super science-based.
What I really love about Philipis that he always updates his
guides and he makes time toanswer any questions, even
though I am not currently apaying client.
He really has helped me so muchand I'm just so grateful.

All right.
So there's something you liketo talk about that is also very
popular now and the research isstill being developed.
It's gut health, right.
Well, I want to talk about thatbecause it's one of your
pillars, it's like a wholepillar, right, and that's
important because I used to bekind of skeptical.
This is like two years ago.
I was just getting intocoaching, like what is this?
But it's powerful.
Tell us why it's so importantto everything.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, you'll hear a lot of
those terms Like the gut is thesecond brain.
I actually kind of think of itas like the first brain.
You know it's not just braincommunicating down to the gut,
it is absolutely the other wayaround as well.
So you know the gut brainaccess is very for real.
So, psychologically, what'sgoing on with us will affect our
gut.
What's going on our gut willaffect us psychologically.
So when we, you know our gut,if you think of it as this, you

(45:33):
know the microbiome, right, thisbig series of all these little
microbes in there.
You know they're all feedingoff of what we put in our body,
right, and if they're nothealthy, then we could be eating
all the healthy food in theworld and not absorbing those
nutrients, right, and so andthere's a lot of women who are
coming from a place of, yeah,completely eliminating food
groups, right, and if you'reeliminating an entire food group

(45:54):
, the microbes that like to feedoff, that will die off until
you start to feed them again.
There's people that might becoming from something like
Optivia, eating a lot of highlyprocessed foods.
Right, your body's not gettingnourished, it's not getting the
nutrients that it needs and itcannot translate those to you
and your body.
And sometimes that's why womenwonder I lost all this weight on
a program like that, but I feltlike crap.
My stomach hurt, my digestionwas really crappy, Crappy.

(46:18):
No, I'm dead dead literally.
I mean I came from healthcare.
There's never TMI.
I think of bowel movements aslike an additional vital sign,
so it's kind of an inclinationof what's going on in your body.
And inflammation stems from thegut.
We both know systemicinflammation is one of the
biggest disruptors of yourweight loss attempts, fat loss
attempts.
So we really do have to carefor our gut and the way I do

(46:39):
that.
Again, without beingeliminating foods or being
nitpicky, I'm all aboutnutrition by addition, right.
So when we part of my plate is,yes, two to three cups of
veggies, but how many differentcolors are you getting right?
Those sort of things?
The whole foods, the new.
That's why we're choosing ourempowered choices and not our
sometimes foods all the time,because those empowered ones are
feeding our gut with what theyneed to to digest our food

(47:00):
properly.
You know our serotonin is madein the gut primarily.
So if you're wondering why yourmood is imbalanced, we have to
have a healthy gut to have ahappy life.
So, yeah, it's an entire pillarbuilt in, because if we're not-
.

Some amylose is tied to the gut.

Yeah, exactly.
So you know it's a pillar that,again, I address in, not a way
that we have to.
You know, I'm not bombardingpeople with tons of supplements,
because I think that's also oneof the worst things.
There are certain ones.
Yes, I'm a functionalnutritionist.
I strategically supplement withpeople that who need it.
But a lot of people are lookingfor, you know, the, the bloat,
debloat pill or something onInstagram, or not even slowing

(47:35):
down enough to chew our foodRight, even slowing down enough
to chew our food right.
So we, you know I talk abouteven the process of chewing and
meal hygiene and how it impactsyour digestion and then what you
absorb from your food, and soit's all built in around the
habits and the plate that we areworking on improving our gut
health throughout.

Yeah, and even even , like you mentioned supplements
, prebiotics, probiotics, peoplethink supplement, and yet the
food you eat and how it fermentsin your gut creates all of
those four Correct yeah, so inmy gut health module we talk
about the prebiotics, theprobiotics, the postbiotics,
which are made by the two, andwhat those roles play, so that
again it becomes okay.

I'm choosing my foods now because I
know the benefit they're havingin my body, not just because it
was on an approved or notapproved list.

Yeah, and you mentioned different colors and
diversity of food.
I mean, if I suppose, if you'retrying to get a certain amount
of fiber and vegetables,naturally you're going to have a
little more diversity.
But do you, do you advise onspecifics like, hey, get
different types of apples,different types of this,
different like to that level ofdiversity?

bottom, like how many colors you know
are you getting?
Yeah, for that reason, becauseobviously, like you know, our
purple veggies are going to comeon and red are going to come
along with different than greenand orange and um, so that's
really kind of you know, the.
It's again a visualrepresentation of just be
mindful that we're gettingdifferent colors.
And I'm not, you know, I'm avery realistic person.
So if I have someone that comesin, they're like I don't like

(49:02):
veggies that much.
I'm like let's pick the one ortwo you like and let's roll with
that at first, right?
So again, it's just part of theprocess eventually.
So if I don't want someonestressing over not getting you
know 10 different colors ofveggies in a week, if there's
fruit too, right, yeah, well,exactly, exactly, yeah.

No, I asked that cause I man who was on the show
a long time, a long time ago hewas great Um, judson Brewer I
think it was Dr Judson Brewertalking about all the different
compounds and the differentvarieties of the same types of
fruits and vegetables can helpwith your gut bacteria.
I'm just curious.
I'm going to call out thecarnivore people here, uh, and
you're going to call them outwith me, I think.
And basically, what do you sayto the person who's like I did

(49:35):
carnivore, I cut out all myfiber.
Now I did carnivore, I cut outall my fiber.
Now I'm feeling great,everything's awesome, and of
course, it's the one.
It's the you know this is goingto work for everybody type of
deal.
My theory is just you know youdid an elimination diet and
you're just haven't reintroducedanything.

Yeah, I mean I think you know you cannot
.
If you know this fiber is not asexy topic, right?
So there's not a millionInstagram reels on the power of
fiber, although they're comingnow, like there is protein and
stuff.
But you cannot, if you go andread any of the research, right,
you cannot deny that you aresignificantly lacking.
You know you're a vitamin andmineral deficient if you are

(50:10):
only eating meat.
And you know, oftentimes youknow, having worked in
healthcare, I did counsel a lotof clients on nutrition and I
would encounter some that weredoing carnivore and were great,
and then a few months down theroad they've got gallstones and
kidney issues and you know.
So I think that there is.
This is why I always say myapproach is health first, weight
loss, because, sure, carnivoremight help you lose weight Great
.
But you cannot deny that whenyou're removing a lot of

(50:33):
essential vitamins, minerals,nutrients from your body, which
we get from our fiber and ourgut, there's eventually going to
be a catch to that right, yourbody will let you know.
So, again, I think, when we'retalking about weight loss,
there's a million ways to do itthat might not contribute to
long-term health, and so I andI'm not opposed to those for
short periods of time, if that'swhat people choose to use.

(50:55):
But again, having worked withgeriatrics and people who only
wish they could go back in timeand get their health back, you
can't deny that having thosefoods in your repertoire that
are providing you with fiber andall of those sort of things are
eventually going to be neededto be reintroduced.

Yeah, I agree, and it's one thing to have
flexibility and say, well, if itworks for you, but it's another
thing is long-term, is itreally working for?

if you're not tracking the right things
here no-transcript cake on yourbirthday, right, or your wife's

(51:48):
birthday, Like I value that andmaybe not, but eventually you
know there's going to said youmainly work with
peripostmenopausal women whoaren't like big, huge into
lifting.

Do you ever work with, like physique goal
oriented folks who are wantingto be really precise and are
they tracking?

or do some of them also use this approach?
So some it depends Again, someof them are using this approach
and having great success withthat and some of them I do try
to understand into tracking andI will say I kind of am like the
backward approach, where mostpeople will come in and have a
program where you track macrosand the goal is eventually to
wean off, to not track macrosRight.
So I actually do the reverse.
We come in and we actually like, don't track that stuff,
because we get them back intouch with you know,

(52:34):
understanding how their bodyworks hunger, fullness, why
we're choosing the foods we are,how to balance our plate,
biofeedback from an actual likein, you know, inside, we get it
now.
Then all there is people thatthen we're like, okay, now we're
at a point where we need themore meticulous data and then we
go to tracking right, and thenwe go to tracking and then now
usually, even if they've, thisis where I am in my life Now I

(52:55):
can do that without being swayedby numbers or having that
negative connotation, becauseI've kind of relearned that
process.
So there are people that wedefinitely end up now Okay, and
even even someone who's maybedoesn't have extreme physique
goals.
But now we're just kind ofstuck right.
We're like it seems on paperthat we're doing everything
right but the scale is notmoving.
So like let's actually putnumbers to this because, as you
know, there's an human error intracking, even whether it be in,

(53:17):
you know, writing it down or inan app and so yeah, so then
we'll, we'll use it and, like Isaid, I tend to use chronometer
or chronometer, I don't evenknow how you say it, but it is
my favorite, because then we canalso look at, you know, vitamin
and mineral and are there gapsthat we need to fill in and that
sort of thing, when people aregetting a little bit more, more
in that we want to optimize,kind of stage.

Yeah, that makes sense.
You got a right tool for thejob, depending on what level of
precision you're trying to get,um, even if it is by hand.
That's why you made yourtracker, so that's awesome.
Um, do you have time for acouple of rapid fire questions?
Absolutely, love it.
All right.
So what food is worst for yourblood sugar balance, if that's a
thing um, it's not a food, itis how you eat the food right?

So I say food organization, not
elimination.
I think there was this timewhere it was like pick the
lowest glycemic index,everything.
Well, you can essentially lowerthe glycemic index again by
pairing it with protein andfiber.
So my whole thing is just trynot to eat carbs alone and pair
it with fat protein, becausethat will buffer the blood sugar
response.
So the worst thing for yourblood sugar is to just eat a

(54:18):
simple burning carb on its own.
That you know.
Yeah.

Is there a caveat right before you lift?

weights, your muscles will put it to use.
And then but, I, also stillthink you should have some
protein before you lift weights.
Well, that is when I tellpeople have the simplest carb
you can find right.
Like we're not talking highfiber or anything right before
you go lift.

For sure, for sure, and there's other reasons for
that which we're not going toget into.
Yeah, is there?

one habit you would say is most important
than all others for successSleep, yeah, sleep, okay, yeah.
I think sleep sets people upfor success.
I think people don't realizethe effect it has on your eating
choices the next day, yourhunger, your craving.
So if I could say that thehabit and break it down to the
micro habit, get off your phonean hour before bed, that's the
habit.

I can see that, because it's also one of the
hardest, I think, for people tochange.
It's just so ingrained in, likeeverything about your life.
So then my next question iswhat is the hardest of your
pillars, would you say the mostchallenging to implement?
Is it the sleepers and one ofthe other ones?

Gosh, you know, I really think the mindset
pillar is probably the hardestfor a lot of people and again,
that there's so much that weencompass, whether it be
relationship with the hood,behavior change, right, the all
or nothing thinking.
So I, and that is what willhold everybody up, you know,
it's how long we can get tobefore we can kind of really
peel back the layers of theonion of the mindset.

Yeah, and that can be its own episode.

We didn't even dive too much into that.

But yeah, much about that.
But yeah, how long you talkabout hunger cues.
So how long does it take forsomeone to see their hunger cues
?
Basically normalizing, let'ssay.

I mean it can happen in a week.
I've done even like a freechallenge.
I did in January.
The first week was the themewas protein and produce right
and it was just like get 30grams at your meals, get your
two to three cups of veggies.
The amount of people that arelike I can't believe.
My hunger, my cravings, thatnighttime like binging is gone
in like five days.
So it can take.
It's like rapid fire if,depending on you, know where
you've come in in your life.

(56:06):
But to actually feel thatphysiological difference it can
happen in three days.

Yeah, that's good.
That's good for people to know.
It's not even though you haveto be patient for some of this.
That can happen quickly.
What's the most overratedsupplement that people keep
recommending?

I would say , oh my God, there's so many
that yeah, there are, it's atough question right.
That could be a whole notherepisode itself, but I think you
know, I honestly will saysupplements like the, you know,
melatonin I'm just going to saythat for state and I'm going to
use this example because, andwhether it's melatonin or some
other, like nighttime sleepysomething, I'm all for it, right

(56:43):
, but it's a supplement and itcannot take the place of you
should not be scrolling yourphone till 11 and popping a
melatonin to try to go to bed,right?
Well, I think, I think a lot ofthese sleep supplements because
the world is slow, so sleepdeprived, and that is one of the
things that almost everybodystruggles with that they're
trying to supplement for when,when they're not realizing that
if we can get natural sunlightduring the day, balance our

(57:03):
blood sugar, stop eating twohours before bedtime and get off
our phone and like dim ourlights, you're going to sleep
way better.
And you could save that 80bucks a month on your like sleep
supplement.

For sure I love my Amber.
Amber glasses.
You know throw them on at night, um, and I just started using a
pillow that helps my head kindof hang back a little bit.
So you know I'm a, I'm a sidesleeper, so I'm trying to be a
back sleeper now and kind ofsupport my neck a little bit
more evenly.

It's a little bit of things like that.

It's um, it's a oh my gosh, I should know what it
is, Cause I had them on.
I just had them on the show.
You can put me on the spot, DrMartoni Neck nest.

I use pillow eyes.
It's one of the like PTs andchiropractors use, like a little
curve, and I love it too.
It makes I sleep on my back asmuch as I can too.

Yeah, you can get that cervical spine supported,
and I wear a sleep mask too,which is so awesome.

Yeah.

Okay, last one, what's the number one benefit?
Your clients report.
That has nothing to do withweight loss or fat loss to fit
your client's report.

that has nothing to do with weight loss
or fat loss, not fearing foodanymore, being able to eat like
a normal human.
I always say that's like thegoal of my program is like I can
just eat, like I think many ofus forget, like what it's like
to just eat and not, you know,over-.

Confidence in food and like you're not going to
lose control.
That's awesome, all right.
Is there anything we didn'tcover?
I know there's a million things.
Oh my.

God, I know I could talk to you for days
Anything you wish.
I asked in this topicspecifically around tracking and
not tracking.
Yeah, no, I don't think.
I think the take-home messageshould be when people hear like
you can lose weight withouttracking, it's really not.
As you know, we need to trackright, we need data.

It's not quote-unquote, just like not
tracking.

You know, and there's there's guidelines
to it that are going toinherently build in that control
, but it's like we are tracking.
It's just a way to trackwithout numbers, without
weighing and measuring, as youknow, so that you feel like
you're not, I guess, like soencompassed by by all of that
sort of stuff.
So just to remove the stress,but there, but there's always
got to be tracking to it,because you know, like we say,

(58:58):
what good measures get managed,so we have to have an awareness
of some way.
It's just a different form oftracking right To, to pull a
little bit of stress off that.

I agree, and you're covering the key variables,
Like, I think, even people whosubscribe to tracking calories
and macros.
Like you said, if it's justabout macros, you are missing
out on so much other context.
But if you can put it as partof an overall system and now you
can kind of pick and choosepieces that work for you.
There was Dr Sarah Balanzai.
She was on the show and shewrote the book Nutrivor and it's
funny because she has a littlecomment in there about like you

(59:26):
don't have to track calories andmacros, but then she has a
tracker based on nutrientquality.
So I'm like, okay, there you go.
So anyway, where can peoplefind you, Christina?

They can find me on Instagram at it's
underscore Christina, underscoreMcClurkin, which I'm sure you
can write that out, and mywebsite is yourhealthybestiecom.

Awesome, we will do that.
Let's see website and IG.
We'll throw that in the shownotes.
Thank you so much, christina.
It was a lot of fun.
Listeners are always lookingfor just different approaches.
Something's going to work forthem, something's going to
resonate, so I hope they reachout to you if that's right for
them.

Christina McClurken (01:00:00):
Amazing.
Thank you so much.
I totally enjoyed it it was alot of fun.

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Can You Lose Fat Without Tracking Macros? (Christina McClurken) | Ep 310

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Can You Lose Fat Without Tracking Macros? (Christina McClurken) | Ep 310