Get the other part of this conversation on Anna’s podcast “Get Strong and Healthy” where Philip breaks down how to train for aesthetics without sacrificing your health.
--
Are you healthy just because you look the part? Strong from the outside but running on empty? Chasing steps, supplements, and skinny without feeling your best?
If you’ve been chasing surface-level goals, it might be time to rethink what true vitality looks like.
Today, Anna Clough, founder of Strong and Healthy and host of the “Get Strong and Healthy” podcast, unpacks what it means to pursue health and longevity. We’re talking about energy, vitality, muscle, metabolism, and how to build a strong body that lasts, without falling into diet culture extremes or burnout.
Don’t miss part two of this special collab—head over to Anna’s podcast to hear Philip break down the aesthetics side of the conversation.
Main Takeaways:
- Looking fit isn’t the same as being healthy
- Strength training is essential for longevity, bone density, and vitality
- Building muscle supports hormones, insulin sensitivity, and metabolism
- Crash diets and restriction backfire on long-term health
- You can look and feel great without sacrificing your well-being
Timestamps:
02:40 – Why you can’t chase every goal at once
05:38 – Biohacking vs. basics: what actually matters
09:31 – Muscle mass, injury prevention, and aging
11:25 – The “bulky” myth and strength as empowerment
14:47 – Bone health, lifting heavy, and real progress
18:33 – Dumbbells, barbells, or machines?
20:40 – Nutrition for health vs. diet culture extremes
23:01 – The danger of crash dieting and rapid weight loss
26:39 – Can you be too lean? What real health feels like
30:09 – Using blood sugar tracking to improve vitality
33:22 – Best ways to improve cardiovascular fitness
Get the other part of this conversation on Anna’s podcast “Get Strong and Healthy” where Philip breaks down how to train for aesthetics without sacrificing your health.
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Philip Pape (00:01):
If you've been told that looking fit is the same
thing as being healthy, it'stime to question that premise.
Maybe you've tried cuttingcalories, hitting the gym harder
or chasing a lower number onthe scale, only to end up more
tired, more frustrated and stillwondering why you don't feel
better.
The truth is real health isn'tabout those extremes.
(00:22):
It's about having energy,balanced hormones, strength that
you can use and a body thatsupports you for the long haul.
Today, we're exploring thedifference between training to
look fit and training to livewell.
You'll learn why the obsessionwith aesthetics can sometimes
backfire, what sustainablehealth actually looks like and
how you can still build a strong, lean body without burning out
(00:46):
or giving up your long-termgoals.
Welcome to Wits and Weights,the show that helps you build a
strong, healthy physique usingevidence, engineering and
efficiency.
I'm your host, philip Pape, andtoday I'm bringing you a special
collaboration with Anna Clough,founder of Strong and Healthy
(01:08):
and host of the Get Strong andHealthy podcast.
Yeah, thank you so much forhaving me on, philip.
Yeah, no, it's awesome becauseI know our missions are pretty
well aligned.
I know your mission is to helpwomen step out of self-sabotage,
get a sustainable, strong,vibrant life, and today we're
going to talk about a big pieceof that right, which is health
and longevity how to train, eatand live for energy, for
(01:30):
vitality, however we define it,even when you might have
aesthetic goals, and so we'regoing to get into that in a
second.
But I do want the listener toknow that we've actually covered
this from two topics, twoangles.
The other angle is theaesthetic side, and I want you
guys to check out Anna's podcastwhere she's interviewing me
about that.
It's Get Strong and Healthy.
Look it up in your podcast appor click the link in your show
(01:53):
notes and again you get twohalves of the same conversation.
So it's two for the price ofone right, even though it's free
.
So go check out Get Strong andHealthy, but right now let's
dive into health and longevity.
Anna, thank you so much forcoming on the show.
Anna Clough (02:07):
Yeah, thank you again, and I'm excited to dive
into this topic today for ourlisteners, and I thought the
best way to kind of kick thisoff is let's define what is
health and longevity versusaesthetics.
And to me, I feel like this isvery, you know, oh, it's so
obvious type of thing.
But we have to remember we'vebeen in the industry for, you
(02:28):
know, however, many years, andnot everyone is knows what maybe
aesthetics means and so kind of.
What we're talking about istraining and eating in terms of
how we want to feel, how healthywe want to be in the long term
of life, versus there's kind ofanother goal we can have which
(02:50):
is how can we look the best thatwe can possibly look right now,
type of thing.
And there's a ton of overlapwithin both of these of how we
get to these goals, but they arevery different and there are
different nuances within how wecan go about reaching the
optimal place of these goals,and so that's what we're going
(03:11):
to be talking about today, andit's also something where, when
I'm working with a client, whensomeone comes to me and they're
like I want to, I want tooptimize my health, but you know
, I want to get.
You know, say shredded, for lackof a better word coming to my
mind and they have all thesegoals at once.
It's something where you kindof have to have that
(03:33):
conversation of love that I'mthe same way.
I want it all, but especiallyin a short-term sense, we do
kind of have to have the maybelike phases of prioritizing one
over the other.
If we're going to try and gofor maximum aesthetics, there's
going to be a little bit ofsacrifice within your health,
(03:55):
and if we're trying to go foroptimizing our health, there
probably is going to be a littlebit of sacrifice when it comes
to our aesthetic goals.
And so that's a really goodquestion for you listeners to
sort of reflect on right now iswhat is most important to me
right now and where are you atwith that?
There's no right or wrong,there's just different
(04:15):
considerations to both, and Ithink both of our episodes are
gonna be really, reallybeneficial to just help give you
some clarity on how to reachthese goals.
Philip Pape (04:24):
So I like that.
You added the time component,right, Because that is so
critical.
When we think of a goal, somepeople get overwhelmed, right?
They're thinking well, by thetime I die, when I'm 100 or
whatever age, like I want tolive a long, healthy life, right
, Don't we all?
And I want to look good, Don'twe all?
And what you said is well,there's a time component,
there's a phase or periodizationcomponent to it and you have to
(04:45):
prioritize.
At the end of the day, wouldyou say, can you have it all
long-term?
Anna Clough (04:50):
I would say, yes, you can.
I think where a lot of theissue goes is especially when
we're so excited about a fitnessjourney or a health journey
we're getting into this world.
It's very exciting when westart to see progress, see
results, and then we kind ofwant to have it all at once.
(05:11):
I think that's where we need toreally set expectations of okay
, like what's our focus rightnow, but in the longterm, maybe
we do a ton of work on yourhealth, we maybe overcome some
internal issues that we might'vehad going on, we get you to a
really amazing place.
And then we can get you to areally amazing place
aesthetically, where you feelamazing, but maybe talking in
the sense of like maximumaesthetics, in terms of like
(05:31):
bodybuilding I don't knowOlympia type level, probably not
we can't really have it allthere but I would say that for
most people who are generalpopulation, they want to look
really good, they want to feelreally good you can absolutely
have it all, especially in thelong term.
Okay.
Philip Pape (05:47):
So maybe we should scope what we mean by health and
longevity specifically, becausethere's a lot of misnomer or
misunderstanding, I think,around both.
Longevity is definitely atrigger word and a buzzword in
the marketing industry.
We were joking about the 200supplement for longevity and
people that talk about howthey're smashing, you know, age
related, uh, their chronologicalhealth or whatever.
(06:09):
You know this 80 year old who'sreally like he's 40, you know
all this.
I'll call it nonsense in theindustry, let's be honest.
But it's the idea that you needall of these protocols and all
this biohacking and the 1%solutions, the red light therapy
.
Is that what we're talkingabout or is it something else?
Leading question, I know.
Anna Clough (06:27):
Yeah, definitely not what we're talking about.
There's a lot of extremeswithin just you know the
craziness of just like why yousaid all the supplements, all
the crazy biohacking thingswhich you know a lot of might
have some merit to it.
A lot of it might not, and evenif things do have merit to it,
it kind of comes down to what'sreally worth it in terms of you
(06:49):
know, a time investment orenergy investment, when it's
maybe a marginal return thatwe're getting, and so definitely
being skeptical of just theextremes on with anything really
.
But yeah, when it comes to justbeing healthy, having long-term
health, it's going to reallycome back to you know, as unsexy
(07:10):
as it is, the, the foundationsand the basics of you know,
strength, training of nutrition,of all right let's, let's talk
about all these things and we'lltalk about how we can, you know
, optimize those things.
And then maybe the fun, funbiohacking tool here or there,
the things that you feel make agreat impact for you, those can
(07:30):
be absolutely amazing, but askind of like a cherry on top
type of thing.
Philip Pape (07:35):
Okay, perfect.
So then let's dive intospecifics, starting with
training, because again, there'sconfusion as to how to train,
and also what I've observed youprobably have as well is like
the idea of the principles oftraining supported by the
evidence versus all thedifferent methods of training,
right, like how many days perweek and how do you train and
what equipment and all that.
Is there a difference betweenhow you train for longevity
(07:59):
versus aesthetics, and are thosedifferences more of the methods
, or are there principles thatactually differ?
What are your thoughts?
Anna Clough (08:05):
Yeah, great question.
I think that overall, when itcomes to longevity, when it
comes to just like anti-agingstrength training and resistance
training I mean they're samething, but training for strength
versus training for gainingmuscle, both are going to be
absolutely incredible and Iwould say that you probably want
(08:26):
to do a mix of both.
And then, when it comes to youknow you're going to talk more
about aesthetics, but I wouldsay it's probably the same kind
of thing if we want to havethose phases of you know all
things, and so that's sort ofwhat I would say there.
But overall, strength trainingis honestly your like anti-aging
superpower.
(08:47):
So, when it comes to health,when it comes to living a long,
healthy life of vitality, thisis definitely what you want to
be having as your foundation ofhow you train.
Philip Pape (08:59):
Yeah, and let's pull on that right.
So someone says, well, do Ireally need to resist?
You know preaching to the choirhere, so I know we both know
the answer.
But someone says, do I reallyneed to strength train?
Because I heard longevity wasmore about, like you know, you
want to have healthy joints andmobility.
You don't want to get injured.
So what about the yoga?
And let's not even get intocardio, because that's a whole
(09:20):
separate thing, but just some ofthe mental health practices and
mindfulness stuff.
Why is it?
And when walking, why is thatnot enough?
Anna Clough (09:28):
Yeah, I have a lot of yogis who come to me and it's
always really fun when you knowall they know is yoga and calm
and stretching.
And then I introduced them tostrength training resistance
training it's it's a wholenother world.
That is extremely necessary andyou want to have just that
(09:48):
combination.
A lot of the times is going tobe best, because if you're super
into yoga, you might causeyourself some issues in terms of
injury, in terms of just notstrengthening your body in the
way that it needs to, and it'sunfortunately something I see a
lot.
And so we really want to bestrong in terms of for, you know
(10:10):
, our joints, for our justmuscle, especially if we're
thinking long, long termpreventing falling, preventing,
you know, injuries as we age.
There's some people that think,oh, I don't want to lift weights
, you know I'm going to injuremyself.
It's like, no, you actuallythat's the total flip.
You want to get strong, liftweights safely, because that's
(10:34):
what's going to prevent injuryin the longterm.
And also after about age 30,the science is very clear that
we start to naturally losemuscle mass every year if we're
not actively working to maintainit, and so you know that is
going to affect everything fromyour posture to your mobility,
(10:56):
to your metabolism, to yourhormones, metabolism to your
hormones, and so there's reallynothing more important or maybe
that's an extreme way of sayingit, but it's extremely important
to really make sure that youare resistance training, you are
actively working to buildmuscle, get stronger and,
overall, just pursuing this as apart of your lifestyle.
Philip Pape (11:19):
We need more people to hear this, anna.
That's why I don't mind talkingabout it every single episode
till this podcast dies.
What you just said is the flipof what people think.
Sometimes, oh, I'm going to getinjured or I have back pain or
knee pain and so I don't want tolift weights, and it's like no,
you start deadlifting.
Watch that back pain go away ifyou do it the right way.
And your phrase extremelynecessary.
(11:41):
I like that because it reallyis a non-negotiable.
For all that, and then thefalling and the aging and the
frailty it affects a lot of us.
I don't know about you.
I have in-laws and grandparentsand parents and all that that I
see just decline fast when theyget old because of the lack of
muscle.
It's the lack of function, butalso lack of muscle.
(12:02):
So, since you brought that up,why is muscle mass so critical
beyond the physical youmentioned you hinted at, like
metabolism.
I know there's things likeinsulin sensitivity and whatnot,
but like what are the bighitters there for health and
longevity?
Anna Clough (12:15):
Yeah, so the more muscle mass you have, the more
efficient your body is athandling blood sugar.
So when you eat, you know,carbs, your body's going to know
how to handle those carbs.
It's going to have the musclemass to be able to, you know,
shuttle those that glucose intoyour muscles and be able to
(12:36):
utilize that for energy, versusjust kind of like letting it sit
in your bloodstream, and soit's going to be better at
handling blood sugar, insulinand also, just overall, it's
going to help with inflammation,you know, preventing too much
inflammation in the long run,and so all of those things are
extremely important when itcomes to our health, and so
(12:58):
muscle mass is really going tobe the core piece to just make
all of that much better, do you?
Philip Pape (13:04):
still get the pushback that I don't want to be
too muscular, or like it seemslike it's just about vanity,
things like that.
Obviously it's the bulky thingwith women, but what do you get
on that front?
Anna Clough (13:15):
Oh yeah, totally.
I hear that here and there.
I feel like society is gettinga little bit better at just, you
know, overcoming thatmisinformation.
But I always like to just tellpeople upfront, like you, don't
have to worry about gaining toomuch muscle too quickly.
A lot of us have been trying todo that, for you know, I tell
(13:36):
people I've been trying to dothat for 10 years and it hasn't
worked.
I'm not there yet.
You know, I I don't um, it'snot very easy to get bulky.
It's very, very intentional,and you're not going to wake up
one day and be like oh my God,I'm Arnold Schwarzenegger, what
do I do?
So you'll be okay.
Philip Pape (13:53):
I joke about it all the time because I'm like guys,
I'm trying to chase physicals.
I didn't get started until Iwas like 40, but it works.
But it takes a lot of work, youknow, in a good way, cause it's
a process.
It's a process, so you didn'tmention injury risk.
The other objection that I hearfrom folks that we kind of
alluded to is like I want tohave more mobility, flexibility
or, um, maybe I don't want tolift heavy because I think that
(14:16):
can be a problem and there aresome risks versus benefits of
heavier versus lighter training.
Like, what are your thoughts onsomebody who's just focused on
longevity?
They're like I don't care how Ilook at all, I just want the
best thing for me, efficiently,for my time.
Anna Clough (14:30):
Oh yeah, like, in terms of you know what kind of,
what kind of training routine toimplement?
Yeah, yeah, like do you likelike.
Philip Pape (14:37):
Do you like lifting heavy Like I do, but not
everybody says you have to?
Do you like lifting heavy LikeI do, but not everybody says you
have to?
And the evidence supports?
There's a lot of flexibilityright In terms of both strength
and hypertrophy.
So is there one that you leantoward with like newer clients
who are, say, 40s, 50s?
Anna Clough (14:51):
Yeah, yeah, great question.
I would really, at the start,lean towards strength.
I really love building afoundation of strength with
clients.
I really love building afoundation of strength with
clients.
I think that for one, it's alittle bit more rewarding at the
start to really show clientswhoa, like I'm lifting
(15:12):
objectively this much more thanI was six weeks ago and I'm
blown away and showing.
You know, especially I workwith women most of the time but
showing women, showing peoplehow strong they can get and how
we can like sort of unlock, thatis really amazing from a
(15:34):
psychology lens versus you know,we can, we can build a good bit
of muscle.
But especially when I'm workingwith high achieving women, we
tend to be a little bit criticalon ourselves and I noticed that
women will be like, oh yeah, Idon't know, maybe it's there, I
don't know, maybe it's not, andthey'll kind of like downplay
when we are making progress ormaybe it's just a little bit
harder to tell.
(15:54):
So that's why I would say fromone lens, why I really love
strength training, but alsothinking about when we are like
lifting heavy and we're, we'rereally pushing, that's going to
be extremely beneficial for alsoour bones.
That was one thing that I meantto mention previously is our
(16:15):
bone health is also reallyimportant to think about, and
it's something that I don'tthink a lot of people do think
about.
And so knowing that resistancetraining, lifting heavy this is
going to prevent our bones fromdegrading.
And I have a woman that I met afew weeks ago.
(16:36):
She's in her early forties andthe doctor told her she has
osteopenia and she, she, uh.
I asked her first question.
I asked her do you resistancetrain?
She said no, I don't work out.
I hate.
I hate working out.
Philip Pape (16:53):
Of course, I hate working out.
Anna Clough (16:55):
And I was like oh yeah, me too I don't like
working out.
Um, I try to, like you know,really make sure I can relate
with that sort of stuff, butjust it goes to show the
importance of lifting, theimportance of training for our
bones, especially in the longterm.
So that's going to be a hugething there piece of it.
Philip Pape (17:23):
I mean I personally believe, like when you're older
and you've never lifted before,like that probably is the most
efficient and best use of yourtime anyway because of all these
benefits.
Plus you're going to buildmuscle anyways from doing it.
The idea of not liking workingout, I mean you just mentioned
what potentially is the fix forthat is, when you make progress
and you get that reward offeeling stronger, more
functional, you're going tostart liking working out more.
(17:44):
Maybe it's still hard, right,maybe it's still hard, but
there's just a deep satisfactionfrom that.
That you don't get from YouTubeworkouts where you're just
sweating with 10 pound dumbbellsand there's like no progress,
right, just to put a littleimagery on that that's another
thing to note is actuallyspecifically this woman too.
Anna Clough (18:03):
She's like I think I'm going to start with some
doing some YouTube workoutsagain and kind of had to come in
with like want to make surethat that's actually enough,
right, because a lot of thetimes the workout videos or just
you know something like thatwhere you're just exercising,
maybe like a class where you'relifting the same weights every
week, like that's really maybenot going to so much do it for
(18:26):
you, and it's going to besomething where we want to make
sure we are resistance trainingproperly, progressing you week
after week, that we're reallychallenging your body in the way
that we need to challenge it,and so that's just.
Something else to note is thatyou know, not all methods are
created equal.
However, we love any form ofexercise.
I'm not saying not trying todiscourage anyone from
exercising, but making sure thatif longevity is really
(18:50):
important to you, if aestheticsare, you know, of importance to
you, it's going to be reallyimportant that you maybe skip
the the um, the YouTube workoutand you get some real good
programming in your life.
I can see why you're a greatcoach, anna.
Right YouTube workout and youget some real good programming
in your life.
Philip Pape (19:03):
I can see why you're a great coach and all
right, cause you have that levelof empathy and like I'm going
to meet you where you are.
But let's use some logic, someyour goals that you have and
shift you toward.
Hey, if you want to get from Ato B, this is the most effective
tool for the job real quick.
Do you have a preference forlike barbell training versus
machines, cables and some blendof free weights?
Anna Clough (19:23):
Yeah.
So personally, I prefer reallyfocusing on more dumbbell work,
especially when someone's a bitnewer, and just really being
able to build some stability,being able to learn different
movements before we can get intousing a barbell, which is going
to be starting at a little bitheavier weight, and so that's
(19:47):
typically really starting withdumbbell work.
However, if a client is dealingwith maybe some sort of pain or
some sort of specific issue,sometimes it might make more
sense to really lean intomachines for a bit and just
utilizing a little bit morestability slash.
Maybe I'm working with an olderclient who you know, maybe
(20:10):
they're not able to see me inperson and I'm maybe writing
workouts for them.
That's that's a time where Imight utilize machines more so.
Philip Pape (20:15):
So it's a very I'm kind of all over the place with
that answer, but no, that's goodCause, you're right, a lot of
it can work, and you've got tomeet them where they are.
And if a client doesn't evenhave access to X or Y, what you
know it's either do it or don'tdo it, then that's, that's not a
good.
That binary is not a goodoption, right?
You want them to do somethingthat gets them there.
Anna Clough (20:35):
Yeah, and I love like a little bit more of just a
functional training style whereyou know a lot of the people
that I'm working with they don'thave you know five plus days in
the week where they're able toget their mix of you know lack
of stability training you knowthrough like dumbbell work and
things like that and then alsodoing machines.
(20:56):
It's something where it's likewhat's going to be the most bang
for our buck type of thing, andso I think that I would
definitely say leaning towardsfree weights um, barbell, slash
dumbbell is going to be whereI'd want most people to be.
Philip Pape (21:07):
Yeah, it makes total sense.
So then then let's segue intonutrition, cause that's the
other big piece, and we couldspend a lot of time talking
about that and longevity andhealth.
Let's see, do we start with thefueling that aligns with your
training and how that can alsosupport health, like I'm not
sure.
Or do we start with, like,restrictive dieting versus
flexible dieting?
You take it away, like, whatmakes the most sense here when
(21:29):
we're thinking health?
Anna Clough (21:30):
Yeah, yeah, there's so many angles to come at this
from.
I totally agree.
I'm like, where do we start?
But what I would say first offis, when it comes to vitality,
when it comes to feeling reallygood now and in the long term,
it's really about less ofrestriction and eating less, and
(21:52):
more about eating smarter, suchas having protein with every
meal, having you know colorfulwhole foods in your diet, making
sure you're staying hydrated toreally you know colorful whole
foods in your diet, making sureyou're staying hydrated to
really you know support yourhormones, your energy and your
recovery, and just also likethinking of eating to fuel,
(22:12):
right.
I see so often people are maybejust really under eating during
the day or even around theirtraining and then maybe are
leading to so many cravings orjust overeating later and in the
long run, we're gaining weightdue to that.
And so, just overall, trying tofind a way to eat that's gonna
support your body during the day, that's going to be balanced,
(22:36):
that's going to not be such amaybe extreme of okay, we're
yo-yo dieting, we're crashdieting, really hard, putting
all that stress on your body,and then we're rebounding right,
like we see a lot of people do,and so if the goal is fat loss,
making sure that you'reapproaching it the right way,
we're not eating way too littleand that's going to just put you
(23:00):
in a worse spot long termterm.
I know that that's how Istarted my journey of just
eating way too little.
I was an athlete at the timeand I think I set myself at 1500
calories and no wonder I hadlike binge eating tendencies
coming out from that and thatswung me in the other way,
leading me to even worse health,and so we really want to sort
of avoid those extremes withthings and make sure that we're
(23:24):
just taking the right approachesto nutrition to make sure that
we're not affecting our health.
Philip Pape (23:29):
Yeah, I can get on board with that.
I mean smarter and not beingextreme.
It's antithesis to howeverything's marketed with the
weight loss industry, wherepeople want results now but the
result now.
Maybe tell the listener why.
Is going after like rapidweight loss or weight loss at
all costs or not a smart way toweight loss not good for your
(23:49):
health and longevity?
Anna Clough (23:51):
Yeah, oh, that's a great question, cause, again,
there's so many, so manycomponents to that.
I think that, first, from ajust a physiological stance,
your body's going to reallyfight you in terms of that, when
you crash, diet so quickly, youlose a ton of weight.
(24:12):
Your body's going to be underso much stress and, at the end
of the day, your body doesn'twant to change like that, it
wants to stay the same, it wantsto feel safe, it doesn't want
to have all this.
You know this stressor.
And so if you put that bigstress on your body, you, you
know, change really, reallyquick.
You're going to have yourhunger cues really fighting you.
(24:36):
You're going to have yourprobably like food, noise and
cravings really starting tofight you there.
And then, overall, like yourhormones might, you know, tank
your metabolism, those differentthings that you know, just from
that stress, your body's like Idon't care about producing
optimal hormones right now.
I'm trying to survive withwhatever this person's doing.
(24:58):
I don't know why I'm notgetting fuel.
I'm trying to survive withwhatever this person's doing.
I don't know why I'm notgetting fuel.
I'm going to start, you know,kind of shutting down and
conserving whatever energy I can.
So that's how you can kind ofthink about, like, what your
body's doing and why it's soimportant to come at things from
a, you know, periodized sort oflong-term lens of.
Maybe you have a big goal oflosing a lot of weight.
(25:18):
Amazing, maybe, instead ofgoing really hard, really fast,
doing it all at once, we makesure to add in some diet breaks
in there, to add in you know, aproper reverse, add in some just
maintenance days and makingsure that we can give your body
that those feelings of safety,first and foremost, just helping
(25:40):
boost your metabolism.
And so, um, yeah, definitelynot crash dieting, not going on
those crazy fad diets, is goingto be really important to
overall, just, uh, maintaininggood health.
Philip Pape (25:53):
Yeah, I think you tied a couple of concepts there
really well.
First, I think, is the ideathat, yes, we many people need
to drop some excess body fatfrom a health perspective, but
the way that they do it isextremely important, and you're
talking about being reasonable,taking the right glide path or
the rate of loss, and not justbecause it avoids, like you said
(26:16):
, the metabolic effects, but itdoes help along the way with
getting it done successfully,like not having the hunger and
the food noise and the cravingswhich is tied to sleep and
recovery and stress.
It's so interconnected.
And you just mentioned safety,which is like the fifth time in
the last month I've had a gueston where we got into that and I
don't know if I'm hearing itmore or just like the word is
(26:37):
getting around, cause I'm sureyou've talked about it a long
time.
I'm just saying I noticed, anna, the more more discussion
around that and like homeostasis, safety, giving your body some
love, let's say, someone figuresthat out, they work, they hire
you and figure it out or theylisten to the podcast, and where
do they want to end up?
What I mean by that is, yes, wehave periodization, but one of
(26:58):
the confusing aspects people sayis well, I kind of want to end
up lean right and I want to lookgood and feel good and also
live a long life, but can youget too lean or it's not healthy
.
And also, what am I trying tosay here, ed?
I'm trying to say here's myexperience.
When I get too lean and it'sdifficult to do that it's not a
(27:22):
place I want to necessarilysustain.
I actually want to like comeback up a little.
That makes sense, like I wantto have a little bit of fat on
my body and kind of be in thatwalking lean.
Like what are your thoughts onthat whole concept of what's the
long game here for health?
Anna Clough (27:29):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Lisa (27:33):
Hi, my name is Lisa and I'd like to give a big shout out
to my nutrition coach, PhilipPate.
With his coaching, I have lost17 pounds.
He helped me identify thereason that I wanted to lose
weight, and it's very simpleLongevity.
I want to be healthy, activeand independent until the day I
die.
He introduced me to thiswonderful little app called
Macro Factor.
I got that part of my nutritionfigured out.
Along with that is the movementpart of nutrition.
(27:56):
There's a plan to it and hereally helped me with that.
The other thing he helped mewith was knowing that I need to
get a lot of steps in.
So the more steps you have, thehigher your expenditure is and
the easier it is to lose weight.
When it's presented to you likehe presents it, it makes even
more sense.
And the other thing that he hadwas a hunker guide and that
really helped me.
So thank you, Philip.
Anna Clough (28:21):
There's, I think, a lot of what we're seeing online
, especially nowadays.
There's a lot of glamorizationjust about being ultra shredded
and 10 pack yeah.
Yeah, and just as a goodreminder for everyone, it's
something we always have toremind ourselves is just because
someone is really really leandoes not mean that they are
(28:45):
thriving or they're reallyhealthy.
And I've been this myself.
I've seen women do this a lot,where you know they're under
eating, they're overtraining,they're constantly fatigued and
they look really fit on theoutside.
But just remembering that truehealth is internal.
(29:05):
It's how you're sleeping, it'show your digestion is working,
if your cycle is regular, if youhave energy, if you feel strong
, if you feel grounded, all thatsort of stuff, and so you can
absolutely get lean and behealthy.
But just remembering that itdoesn't always, they don't
always equal each other, but Iwould say that, especially for
(29:29):
women, but also for men, beingtotally peeled, meaning like
bodybuilding stage ready, that'snot going to be a healthy place
to be for anyone.
And so, yeah, just making sureyou do have a healthy amount of
body fat, we're not too, toolean.
But also just remembering that,like I'll give a personal
(29:49):
example I was at this weightthat I am now a few years ago
and I felt extremely hungry, Ifelt cold all the time.
I felt so many cravings andthis hyper fixation about food.
It felt very unhealthy for meand so, you know, I gained
(30:10):
weight, was able to, you know,get past some of those issues
and I just thought to myself Iguess I'm just not meant to be
that lean.
But recently I've been able toget this lean and not have those
issues that I did beforebecause of the methods that I've
been taking.
And so that's a little caveatjust to like think about is try
(30:34):
and not have that like fixedmindset about.
Oh, just cause I felt this waywhen I was lean means I have to
feel that way next time, becausejust where your body's at
hormonally, where your body's atin all the ways, the methods
that you take to get there, aregoing to matter a ton.
And what I've done now is beingable to really work on my blood
(30:55):
sugar regulation, which, oh mygosh, if you guys have it,
that's a nice like um, you knowa little bit more in like the
biohacker world type in my eyes,but it's just a really amazing
health tool to be able to trackyour blood sugars.
And how you can do that is takea fasted blood sugar reading
(31:15):
with a little uh blood sugarreader device first thing in the
morning and you can see whatyour fasted blood sugars are.
And then also, you want to getsome readings post-prandial, so
two hours or so after you eatactually after your last bite of
food set a two hour timer, takeyour blood sugar and see where
(31:38):
it's coming to, for you knowpeople who are really stressed.
You know you're training reallyhard.
Like me, I've been an athletefor a long time and I, you know,
put pressure on myself in termsof business and all that you
know, fun stuff.
Um, that really led me to justhaving dysregulated blood sugar,
and I think probably for awhile, and I didn't even know it
(32:01):
, and that was a really big keyfor me to say, all right, I need
to heal this, and that's what'sgotten rid of so many cravings
for me, helped me just come to amuch better place, and so
that's a really nice tool to use.
If you'd be interested intrying that out, I highly
recommend.
I actually just got a CGMcontinuous glucose monitor to
(32:26):
try out.
I hear a lot of conflictingthings about the accuracy.
However, I'm kind of looking atit as okay.
Even if it's not accurate.
You're going to be able to seethe differences and see.
You know the changes.
So you know, my coach told mewe're going to add five to 10
points to each reading.
Just, you know that's what wetypically do.
(32:46):
So that's what.
That's what I'm currently doingand that's just been a big
catalyst for my journey, but I'mso off track from what the
question is.
Philip Pape (33:00):
And we don't need to pick it back up.
It's okay Just to pull on thatthread a bit.
I do love the idea of okay, ifthe advice is to eat more fiber
and balance your macros andbalance meals, because the
result is it helps with yourblood sugar, just one way to do
it.
It's nice to have data andtrends that kind of correlate.
Okay, this is what happens whenI do this.
Not get freaked out because Ieat potatoes and my blood sugar
spiked, right.
(33:22):
So, um, in fact, holly Baxterwas on the show, right, ifpp
bikini pro.
She's awesome, and she talkedabout using the calories burned
from your wearable and exercise,which originally I was like, oh
no, what's she going to say?
She's like using the trend ofthat over time and how it
changes to see how active youare and how much volume you may
have.
I'm like, oh, that's cool.
Like the number is not accurateat all, but like, for you, the
(33:43):
trend over time could tell yousomething, so it's the right way
.
So, in the interest of timecause I know we're trying to
keep these two episodes likereasonable Can I do like three
rapid fire questions for you?
Yeah, go off, all right.
So the first one, which is kindof a big side topic, but what's
the best way to improvecardiovascular health and
markers, like you know, restingheart rate.
Anna Clough (34:02):
Ooh, yeah.
So walk, do some sort of cardiothat you enjoy If that is
biking, that is some hiking, ifthat is, you know whatever that
might be for you and thenpotentially some interval type
training, some high intensitytype training.
(34:27):
Even just a few minutes perweek is an amazing way to
improve your cardiovascularfitness Cool, Just don't overdo
the cardio right.
Yeah, don't overdo it.
It's a great compliment tostrength as being your base.
Philip Pape (34:37):
How do you lower cholesterol?
So people are that's, that's amarker of health Everybody and
their doctor knows to look at.
How do you do that?
Lower your lipids, your LDL?
Anna Clough (34:45):
Yeah, great question.
So, first off, nutrition isgoing to be huge Overall.
Just, I mean, improving all ofthese different factors is going
to lead to that, like such aholistic approach is going to be
really what's going to helpwith that.
Philip Pape (35:02):
And what is your favorite habit framework.
Anna Clough (35:05):
Habit framework who , like as in building, building
habits there's so many ways toapproach it, yeah absolutely so.
My where my brain wentimmediately was habit stacking
love, habit stacking love.
Taking a habit that you alreadydo every single day and pairing
that with something you'retrying to build.
That is going to make it stick.
(35:28):
That's going to make it so mucheasier.
So, if you're trying toimplement something, find
something you already do andjust do both same time.
Philip Pape (35:35):
Love it, love habit stacking.
That's a great tip for folks,just if they say I don't have
time for that, no, you're doingsomething else that you can
stack, all right.
So, kind of to recap, it soundslike if you do the right things
for your body in terms oftaking a reasonable approach,
strength training, eatingnutritious foods and protein,
keeping the stress managementthere, getting enough sleep
(35:57):
guess what?
All the things we you and Italk about all the time it's
going to give you health andlongevity and it's probably
gonna make you look good too.
So I know, if you love today'sconversation, um, again, go
check out Anna's show get strongand healthy.
What a simple, easy to remembername for a podcast where we're
going to talk about theaesthetic side of this, and
you're going to hear someoverlap, for sure, but there's
(36:17):
always little differences.
Is there any last thing abouthealth and longevity that you
really wanted to cover that wedidn't get to?
Anna Clough (36:23):
Yeah, I think really just making sure you're
coming at your journey fromthinking about building a
sustainable lifestyle.
At the end of the day, we cantake some fun you know
short-term strategies but wealso need to make sure that we
are showing up for thesedifferent values we have of
(36:43):
taking care of ourselves, eatingwell, working out, training,
whatever in the long run andmaking sure that you can just
keep this up so that you can bestrong and healthy today and for
the longevity.
Philip Pape (36:57):
Sustainability, the underlying glue that binds all
of this.
Ask yourself if what you'redoing is, if it isn't, something
might be able to change and doeverything Anna's suggesting.
It doesn't take a lot toincorporate those and get a
massive result for your effort.
So thank you again, anna, fordoing this.
Again, I'm excited for thecollaboration.
Glad we got to talk through atleast the basics.
(37:18):
It's a big topic, I know.
Go find Anna's podcast.
Get Strong and Healthy.
Use the link in the show notes.
And, anna, thank you for comingon.
Anna Clough (37:26):
Yeah, thanks so much for having me.
If you've been told that looking fit is the same
thing as being healthy, it'stime to question that premise.
Maybe you've tried cuttingcalories, hitting the gym harder
or chasing a lower number onthe scale, only to end up more
tired, more frustrated and stillwondering why you don't feel
better.
The truth is real health isn'tabout those extremes.
(00:22):
It's about having energy,balanced hormones, strength that
you can use and a body thatsupports you for the long haul.
Today, we're exploring thedifference between training to
look fit and training to livewell.
You'll learn why the obsessionwith aesthetics can sometimes
backfire, what sustainablehealth actually looks like and
how you can still build a strong, lean body without burning out
(00:46):
or giving up your long-termgoals.
Welcome to Wits and Weights,the show that helps you build a
strong, healthy physique usingevidence, engineering and
efficiency.
I'm your host, philip Pape, andtoday I'm bringing you a special
collaboration with Anna Clough,founder of Strong and Healthy
(01:08):
and host of the Get Strong andHealthy podcast.
Yeah, thank you so much forhaving me on, philip.
Yeah, no, it's awesome becauseI know our missions are pretty
well aligned.
I know your mission is to helpwomen step out of self-sabotage,
get a sustainable, strong,vibrant life, and today we're
going to talk about a big pieceof that right, which is health
and longevity how to train, eatand live for energy, for
(01:30):
vitality, however we define it,even when you might have
aesthetic goals, and so we'regoing to get into that in a
second.
But I do want the listener toknow that we've actually covered
this from two topics, twoangles.
The other angle is theaesthetic side, and I want you
guys to check out Anna's podcastwhere she's interviewing me
about that.
It's Get Strong and Healthy.
Look it up in your podcast appor click the link in your show
(01:53):
notes and again you get twohalves of the same conversation.
So it's two for the price ofone right, even though it's free
.
So go check out Get Strong andHealthy, but right now let's
dive into health and longevity.
Anna, thank you so much forcoming on the show.
Anna Clough (02:07):
Yeah, thank you again, and I'm excited to dive
into this topic today for ourlisteners, and I thought the
best way to kind of kick thisoff is let's define what is
health and longevity versusaesthetics.
And to me, I feel like this isvery, you know, oh, it's so
obvious type of thing.
But we have to remember we'vebeen in the industry for, you
(02:28):
know, however, many years, andnot everyone is knows what maybe
aesthetics means and so kind of.
What we're talking about istraining and eating in terms of
how we want to feel, how healthywe want to be in the long term
of life, versus there's kind ofanother goal we can have which
(02:50):
is how can we look the best thatwe can possibly look right now,
type of thing.
And there's a ton of overlapwithin both of these of how we
get to these goals, but they arevery different and there are
different nuances within how wecan go about reaching the
optimal place of these goals,and so that's what we're going
(03:11):
to be talking about today, andit's also something where, when
I'm working with a client, whensomeone comes to me and they're
like I want to, I want tooptimize my health, but you know
, I want to get.
You know, say shredded, for lackof a better word coming to my
mind and they have all thesegoals at once.
It's something where you kindof have to have that
(03:33):
conversation of love that I'mthe same way.
I want it all, but especiallyin a short-term sense, we do
kind of have to have the maybelike phases of prioritizing one
over the other.
If we're going to try and gofor maximum aesthetics, there's
going to be a little bit ofsacrifice within your health,
(03:55):
and if we're trying to go foroptimizing our health, there
probably is going to be a littlebit of sacrifice when it comes
to our aesthetic goals.
And so that's a really goodquestion for you listeners to
sort of reflect on right now iswhat is most important to me
right now and where are you atwith that?
There's no right or wrong,there's just different
(04:15):
considerations to both, and Ithink both of our episodes are
gonna be really, reallybeneficial to just help give you
some clarity on how to reachthese goals.
Philip Pape (04:24):
So I like that.
You added the time component,right, Because that is so
critical.
When we think of a goal, somepeople get overwhelmed, right?
They're thinking well, by thetime I die, when I'm 100 or
whatever age, like I want tolive a long, healthy life, right
, Don't we all?
And I want to look good, Don'twe all?
And what you said is well,there's a time component,
there's a phase or periodizationcomponent to it and you have to
(04:45):
prioritize.
At the end of the day, wouldyou say, can you have it all
long-term?
Anna Clough (04:50):
I would say, yes, you can.
I think where a lot of theissue goes is especially when
we're so excited about a fitnessjourney or a health journey
we're getting into this world.
It's very exciting when westart to see progress, see
results, and then we kind ofwant to have it all at once.
(05:11):
I think that's where we need toreally set expectations of okay
, like what's our focus rightnow, but in the longterm, maybe
we do a ton of work on yourhealth, we maybe overcome some
internal issues that we might'vehad going on, we get you to a
really amazing place.
And then we can get you to areally amazing place
aesthetically, where you feelamazing, but maybe talking in
the sense of like maximumaesthetics, in terms of like
(05:31):
bodybuilding I don't knowOlympia type level, probably not
we can't really have it allthere but I would say that for
most people who are generalpopulation, they want to look
really good, they want to feelreally good you can absolutely
have it all, especially in thelong term.
Okay.
Philip Pape (05:47):
So maybe we should scope what we mean by health and
longevity specifically, becausethere's a lot of misnomer or
misunderstanding, I think,around both.
Longevity is definitely atrigger word and a buzzword in
the marketing industry.
We were joking about the 200supplement for longevity and
people that talk about howthey're smashing, you know, age
related, uh, their chronologicalhealth or whatever.
(06:09):
You know this 80 year old who'sreally like he's 40, you know
all this.
I'll call it nonsense in theindustry, let's be honest.
But it's the idea that you needall of these protocols and all
this biohacking and the 1%solutions, the red light therapy
.
Is that what we're talkingabout or is it something else?
Leading question, I know.
Anna Clough (06:27):
Yeah, definitely not what we're talking about.
There's a lot of extremeswithin just you know the
craziness of just like why yousaid all the supplements, all
the crazy biohacking thingswhich you know a lot of might
have some merit to it.
A lot of it might not, and evenif things do have merit to it,
it kind of comes down to what'sreally worth it in terms of you
(06:49):
know, a time investment orenergy investment, when it's
maybe a marginal return thatwe're getting, and so definitely
being skeptical of just theextremes on with anything really
.
But yeah, when it comes to justbeing healthy, having long-term
health, it's going to reallycome back to you know, as unsexy
(07:10):
as it is, the, the foundationsand the basics of you know,
strength, training of nutrition,of all right let's, let's talk
about all these things and we'lltalk about how we can, you know
, optimize those things.
And then maybe the fun, funbiohacking tool here or there,
the things that you feel make agreat impact for you, those can
(07:30):
be absolutely amazing, but askind of like a cherry on top
type of thing.
Philip Pape (07:35):
Okay, perfect.
So then let's dive intospecifics, starting with
training, because again, there'sconfusion as to how to train,
and also what I've observed youprobably have as well is like
the idea of the principles oftraining supported by the
evidence versus all thedifferent methods of training,
right, like how many days perweek and how do you train and
what equipment and all that.
Is there a difference betweenhow you train for longevity
(07:59):
versus aesthetics, and are thosedifferences more of the methods
, or are there principles thatactually differ?
What are your thoughts?
Anna Clough (08:05):
Yeah, great question.
I think that overall, when itcomes to longevity, when it
comes to just like anti-agingstrength training and resistance
training I mean they're samething, but training for strength
versus training for gainingmuscle, both are going to be
absolutely incredible and Iwould say that you probably want
(08:26):
to do a mix of both.
And then, when it comes to youknow you're going to talk more
about aesthetics, but I wouldsay it's probably the same kind
of thing if we want to havethose phases of you know all
things, and so that's sort ofwhat I would say there.
But overall, strength trainingis honestly your like anti-aging
superpower.
(08:47):
So, when it comes to health,when it comes to living a long,
healthy life of vitality, thisis definitely what you want to
be having as your foundation ofhow you train.
Philip Pape (08:59):
Yeah, and let's pull on that right.
So someone says, well, do Ireally need to resist?
You know preaching to the choirhere, so I know we both know
the answer.
But someone says, do I reallyneed to strength train?
Because I heard longevity wasmore about, like you know, you
want to have healthy joints andmobility.
You don't want to get injured.
So what about the yoga?
And let's not even get intocardio, because that's a whole
(09:20):
separate thing, but just some ofthe mental health practices and
mindfulness stuff.
Why is it?
And when walking, why is thatnot enough?
Anna Clough (09:28):
Yeah, I have a lot of yogis who come to me and it's
always really fun when you knowall they know is yoga and calm
and stretching.
And then I introduced them tostrength training resistance
training it's it's a wholenother world.
That is extremely necessary andyou want to have just that
(09:48):
combination.
A lot of the times is going tobe best, because if you're super
into yoga, you might causeyourself some issues in terms of
injury, in terms of just notstrengthening your body in the
way that it needs to, and it'sunfortunately something I see a
lot.
And so we really want to bestrong in terms of for, you know
(10:10):
, our joints, for our justmuscle, especially if we're
thinking long, long termpreventing falling, preventing,
you know, injuries as we age.
There's some people that think,oh, I don't want to lift weights
, you know I'm going to injuremyself.
It's like, no, you actuallythat's the total flip.
You want to get strong, liftweights safely, because that's
(10:34):
what's going to prevent injuryin the longterm.
And also after about age 30,the science is very clear that
we start to naturally losemuscle mass every year if we're
not actively working to maintainit, and so you know that is
going to affect everything fromyour posture to your mobility,
(10:56):
to your metabolism, to yourhormones, metabolism to your
hormones, and so there's reallynothing more important or maybe
that's an extreme way of sayingit, but it's extremely important
to really make sure that youare resistance training, you are
actively working to buildmuscle, get stronger and,
overall, just pursuing this as apart of your lifestyle.
Philip Pape (11:19):
We need more people to hear this, anna.
That's why I don't mind talkingabout it every single episode
till this podcast dies.
What you just said is the flipof what people think.
Sometimes, oh, I'm going to getinjured or I have back pain or
knee pain and so I don't want tolift weights, and it's like no,
you start deadlifting.
Watch that back pain go away ifyou do it the right way.
And your phrase extremelynecessary.
(11:41):
I like that because it reallyis a non-negotiable.
For all that, and then thefalling and the aging and the
frailty it affects a lot of us.
I don't know about you.
I have in-laws and grandparentsand parents and all that that I
see just decline fast when theyget old because of the lack of
muscle.
It's the lack of function, butalso lack of muscle.
(12:02):
So, since you brought that up,why is muscle mass so critical
beyond the physical youmentioned you hinted at, like
metabolism.
I know there's things likeinsulin sensitivity and whatnot,
but like what are the bighitters there for health and
longevity?
Anna Clough (12:15):
Yeah, so the more muscle mass you have, the more
efficient your body is athandling blood sugar.
So when you eat, you know,carbs, your body's going to know
how to handle those carbs.
It's going to have the musclemass to be able to, you know,
shuttle those that glucose intoyour muscles and be able to
(12:36):
utilize that for energy, versusjust kind of like letting it sit
in your bloodstream, and soit's going to be better at
handling blood sugar, insulinand also, just overall, it's
going to help with inflammation,you know, preventing too much
inflammation in the long run,and so all of those things are
extremely important when itcomes to our health, and so
(12:58):
muscle mass is really going tobe the core piece to just make
all of that much better, do you?
Philip Pape (13:04):
still get the pushback that I don't want to be
too muscular, or like it seemslike it's just about vanity,
things like that.
Obviously it's the bulky thingwith women, but what do you get
on that front?
Anna Clough (13:15):
Oh yeah, totally.
I hear that here and there.
I feel like society is gettinga little bit better at just, you
know, overcoming thatmisinformation.
But I always like to just tellpeople upfront, like you, don't
have to worry about gaining toomuch muscle too quickly.
A lot of us have been trying todo that, for you know, I tell
(13:36):
people I've been trying to dothat for 10 years and it hasn't
worked.
I'm not there yet.
You know, I I don't um, it'snot very easy to get bulky.
It's very, very intentional,and you're not going to wake up
one day and be like oh my God,I'm Arnold Schwarzenegger, what
do I do?
So you'll be okay.
Philip Pape (13:53):
I joke about it all the time because I'm like guys,
I'm trying to chase physicals.
I didn't get started until Iwas like 40, but it works.
But it takes a lot of work, youknow, in a good way, cause it's
a process.
It's a process, so you didn'tmention injury risk.
The other objection that I hearfrom folks that we kind of
alluded to is like I want tohave more mobility, flexibility
or, um, maybe I don't want tolift heavy because I think that
(14:16):
can be a problem and there aresome risks versus benefits of
heavier versus lighter training.
Like, what are your thoughts onsomebody who's just focused on
longevity?
They're like I don't care how Ilook at all, I just want the
best thing for me, efficiently,for my time.
Anna Clough (14:30):
Oh yeah, like, in terms of you know what kind of,
what kind of training routine toimplement?
Yeah, yeah, like do you likelike.
Philip Pape (14:37):
Do you like lifting heavy Like I do, but not
everybody says you have to?
Do you like lifting heavy LikeI do, but not everybody says you
have to?
And the evidence supports?
There's a lot of flexibilityright In terms of both strength
and hypertrophy.
So is there one that you leantoward with like newer clients
who are, say, 40s, 50s?
Anna Clough (14:51):
Yeah, yeah, great question.
I would really, at the start,lean towards strength.
I really love building afoundation of strength with
clients.
I really love building afoundation of strength with
clients.
I think that for one, it's alittle bit more rewarding at the
start to really show clientswhoa, like I'm lifting
(15:12):
objectively this much more thanI was six weeks ago and I'm
blown away and showing.
You know, especially I workwith women most of the time but
showing women, showing peoplehow strong they can get and how
we can like sort of unlock, thatis really amazing from a
(15:34):
psychology lens versus you know,we can, we can build a good bit
of muscle.
But especially when I'm workingwith high achieving women, we
tend to be a little bit criticalon ourselves and I noticed that
women will be like, oh yeah, Idon't know, maybe it's there, I
don't know, maybe it's not, andthey'll kind of like downplay
when we are making progress ormaybe it's just a little bit
harder to tell.
(15:54):
So that's why I would say fromone lens, why I really love
strength training, but alsothinking about when we are like
lifting heavy and we're, we'rereally pushing, that's going to
be extremely beneficial for alsoour bones.
That was one thing that I meantto mention previously is our
(16:15):
bone health is also reallyimportant to think about, and
it's something that I don'tthink a lot of people do think
about.
And so knowing that resistancetraining, lifting heavy this is
going to prevent our bones fromdegrading.
And I have a woman that I met afew weeks ago.
(16:36):
She's in her early forties andthe doctor told her she has
osteopenia and she, she, uh.
I asked her first question.
I asked her do you resistancetrain?
She said no, I don't work out.
I hate.
I hate working out.
Philip Pape (16:53):
Of course, I hate working out.
Anna Clough (16:55):
And I was like oh yeah, me too I don't like
working out.
Um, I try to, like you know,really make sure I can relate
with that sort of stuff, butjust it goes to show the
importance of lifting, theimportance of training for our
bones, especially in the longterm.
So that's going to be a hugething there piece of it.
Philip Pape (17:23):
I mean I personally believe, like when you're older
and you've never lifted before,like that probably is the most
efficient and best use of yourtime anyway because of all these
benefits.
Plus you're going to buildmuscle anyways from doing it.
The idea of not liking workingout, I mean you just mentioned
what potentially is the fix forthat is, when you make progress
and you get that reward offeeling stronger, more
functional, you're going tostart liking working out more.
(17:44):
Maybe it's still hard, right,maybe it's still hard, but
there's just a deep satisfactionfrom that.
That you don't get from YouTubeworkouts where you're just
sweating with 10 pound dumbbellsand there's like no progress,
right, just to put a littleimagery on that that's another
thing to note is actuallyspecifically this woman too.
Anna Clough (18:03):
She's like I think I'm going to start with some
doing some YouTube workoutsagain and kind of had to come in
with like want to make surethat that's actually enough,
right, because a lot of thetimes the workout videos or just
you know something like thatwhere you're just exercising,
maybe like a class where you'relifting the same weights every
week, like that's really maybenot going to so much do it for
(18:26):
you, and it's going to besomething where we want to make
sure we are resistance trainingproperly, progressing you week
after week, that we're reallychallenging your body in the way
that we need to challenge it,and so that's just.
Something else to note is thatyou know, not all methods are
created equal.
However, we love any form ofexercise.
I'm not saying not trying todiscourage anyone from
exercising, but making sure thatif longevity is really
(18:50):
important to you, if aestheticsare, you know, of importance to
you, it's going to be reallyimportant that you maybe skip
the the um, the YouTube workoutand you get some real good
programming in your life.
I can see why you're a greatcoach, anna.
Right YouTube workout and youget some real good programming
in your life.
Philip Pape (19:03):
I can see why you're a great coach and all
right, cause you have that levelof empathy and like I'm going
to meet you where you are.
But let's use some logic, someyour goals that you have and
shift you toward.
Hey, if you want to get from Ato B, this is the most effective
tool for the job real quick.
Do you have a preference forlike barbell training versus
machines, cables and some blendof free weights?
Anna Clough (19:23):
Yeah.
So personally, I prefer reallyfocusing on more dumbbell work,
especially when someone's a bitnewer, and just really being
able to build some stability,being able to learn different
movements before we can get intousing a barbell, which is going
to be starting at a little bitheavier weight, and so that's
(19:47):
typically really starting withdumbbell work.
However, if a client is dealingwith maybe some sort of pain or
some sort of specific issue,sometimes it might make more
sense to really lean intomachines for a bit and just
utilizing a little bit morestability slash.
Maybe I'm working with an olderclient who you know, maybe
(20:10):
they're not able to see me inperson and I'm maybe writing
workouts for them.
That's that's a time where Imight utilize machines more so.
Philip Pape (20:15):
So it's a very I'm kind of all over the place with
that answer, but no, that's goodCause, you're right, a lot of
it can work, and you've got tomeet them where they are.
And if a client doesn't evenhave access to X or Y, what you
know it's either do it or don'tdo it, then that's, that's not a
good.
That binary is not a goodoption, right?
You want them to do somethingthat gets them there.
Anna Clough (20:35):
Yeah, and I love like a little bit more of just a
functional training style whereyou know a lot of the people
that I'm working with they don'thave you know five plus days in
the week where they're able toget their mix of you know lack
of stability training you knowthrough like dumbbell work and
things like that and then alsodoing machines.
(20:56):
It's something where it's likewhat's going to be the most bang
for our buck type of thing, andso I think that I would
definitely say leaning towardsfree weights um, barbell, slash
dumbbell is going to be whereI'd want most people to be.
Philip Pape (21:07):
Yeah, it makes total sense.
So then then let's segue intonutrition, cause that's the
other big piece, and we couldspend a lot of time talking
about that and longevity andhealth.
Let's see, do we start with thefueling that aligns with your
training and how that can alsosupport health, like I'm not
sure.
Or do we start with, like,restrictive dieting versus
flexible dieting?
You take it away, like, whatmakes the most sense here when
(21:29):
we're thinking health?
Anna Clough (21:30):
Yeah, yeah, there's so many angles to come at this
from.
I totally agree.
I'm like, where do we start?
But what I would say first offis, when it comes to vitality,
when it comes to feeling reallygood now and in the long term,
it's really about less ofrestriction and eating less, and
(21:52):
more about eating smarter, suchas having protein with every
meal, having you know colorfulwhole foods in your diet, making
sure you're staying hydrated toreally you know colorful whole
foods in your diet, making sureyou're staying hydrated to
really you know support yourhormones, your energy and your
recovery, and just also likethinking of eating to fuel,
(22:12):
right.
I see so often people are maybejust really under eating during
the day or even around theirtraining and then maybe are
leading to so many cravings orjust overeating later and in the
long run, we're gaining weightdue to that.
And so, just overall, trying tofind a way to eat that's gonna
support your body during the day, that's going to be balanced,
(22:36):
that's going to not be such amaybe extreme of okay, we're
yo-yo dieting, we're crashdieting, really hard, putting
all that stress on your body,and then we're rebounding right,
like we see a lot of people do,and so if the goal is fat loss,
making sure that you'reapproaching it the right way,
we're not eating way too littleand that's going to just put you
(23:00):
in a worse spot long termterm.
I know that that's how Istarted my journey of just
eating way too little.
I was an athlete at the timeand I think I set myself at 1500
calories and no wonder I hadlike binge eating tendencies
coming out from that and thatswung me in the other way,
leading me to even worse health,and so we really want to sort
of avoid those extremes withthings and make sure that we're
(23:24):
just taking the right approachesto nutrition to make sure that
we're not affecting our health.
Philip Pape (23:29):
Yeah, I can get on board with that.
I mean smarter and not beingextreme.
It's antithesis to howeverything's marketed with the
weight loss industry, wherepeople want results now but the
result now.
Maybe tell the listener why.
Is going after like rapidweight loss or weight loss at
all costs or not a smart way toweight loss not good for your
(23:49):
health and longevity?
Anna Clough (23:51):
Yeah, oh, that's a great question, cause, again,
there's so many, so manycomponents to that.
I think that, first, from ajust a physiological stance,
your body's going to reallyfight you in terms of that, when
you crash, diet so quickly, youlose a ton of weight.
(24:12):
Your body's going to be underso much stress and, at the end
of the day, your body doesn'twant to change like that, it
wants to stay the same, it wantsto feel safe, it doesn't want
to have all this.
You know this stressor.
And so if you put that bigstress on your body, you, you
know, change really, reallyquick.
You're going to have yourhunger cues really fighting you.
(24:36):
You're going to have yourprobably like food, noise and
cravings really starting tofight you there.
And then, overall, like yourhormones might, you know, tank
your metabolism, those differentthings that you know, just from
that stress, your body's like Idon't care about producing
optimal hormones right now.
I'm trying to survive withwhatever this person's doing.
(24:58):
I don't know why I'm notgetting fuel.
I'm trying to survive withwhatever this person's doing.
I don't know why I'm notgetting fuel.
I'm going to start, you know,kind of shutting down and
conserving whatever energy I can.
So that's how you can kind ofthink about, like, what your
body's doing and why it's soimportant to come at things from
a, you know, periodized sort oflong-term lens of.
Maybe you have a big goal oflosing a lot of weight.
(25:18):
Amazing, maybe, instead ofgoing really hard, really fast,
doing it all at once, we makesure to add in some diet breaks
in there, to add in you know, aproper reverse, add in some just
maintenance days and makingsure that we can give your body
that those feelings of safety,first and foremost, just helping
(25:40):
boost your metabolism.
And so, um, yeah, definitelynot crash dieting, not going on
those crazy fad diets, is goingto be really important to
overall, just, uh, maintaininggood health.
Philip Pape (25:53):
Yeah, I think you tied a couple of concepts there
really well.
First, I think, is the ideathat, yes, we many people need
to drop some excess body fatfrom a health perspective, but
the way that they do it isextremely important, and you're
talking about being reasonable,taking the right glide path or
the rate of loss, and not justbecause it avoids, like you said
(26:16):
, the metabolic effects, but itdoes help along the way with
getting it done successfully,like not having the hunger and
the food noise and the cravingswhich is tied to sleep and
recovery and stress.
It's so interconnected.
And you just mentioned safety,which is like the fifth time in
the last month I've had a gueston where we got into that and I
don't know if I'm hearing itmore or just like the word is
(26:37):
getting around, cause I'm sureyou've talked about it a long
time.
I'm just saying I noticed, anna, the more more discussion
around that and like homeostasis, safety, giving your body some
love, let's say, someone figuresthat out, they work, they hire
you and figure it out or theylisten to the podcast, and where
do they want to end up?
What I mean by that is, yes, wehave periodization, but one of
(26:58):
the confusing aspects people sayis well, I kind of want to end
up lean right and I want to lookgood and feel good and also
live a long life, but can youget too lean or it's not healthy
.
And also, what am I trying tosay here, ed?
I'm trying to say here's myexperience.
When I get too lean and it'sdifficult to do that it's not a
(27:22):
place I want to necessarilysustain.
I actually want to like comeback up a little.
That makes sense, like I wantto have a little bit of fat on
my body and kind of be in thatwalking lean.
Like what are your thoughts onthat whole concept of what's the
long game here for health?
Anna Clough (27:29):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Lisa (27:33):
Hi, my name is Lisa and I'd like to give a big shout out
to my nutrition coach, PhilipPate.
With his coaching, I have lost17 pounds.
He helped me identify thereason that I wanted to lose
weight, and it's very simpleLongevity.
I want to be healthy, activeand independent until the day I
die.
He introduced me to thiswonderful little app called
Macro Factor.
I got that part of my nutritionfigured out.
Along with that is the movementpart of nutrition.
(27:56):
There's a plan to it and hereally helped me with that.
The other thing he helped mewith was knowing that I need to
get a lot of steps in.
So the more steps you have, thehigher your expenditure is and
the easier it is to lose weight.
When it's presented to you likehe presents it, it makes even
more sense.
And the other thing that he hadwas a hunker guide and that
really helped me.
So thank you, Philip.
Anna Clough (28:21):
There's, I think, a lot of what we're seeing online
, especially nowadays.
There's a lot of glamorizationjust about being ultra shredded
and 10 pack yeah.
Yeah, and just as a goodreminder for everyone, it's
something we always have toremind ourselves is just because
someone is really really leandoes not mean that they are
(28:45):
thriving or they're reallyhealthy.
And I've been this myself.
I've seen women do this a lot,where you know they're under
eating, they're overtraining,they're constantly fatigued and
they look really fit on theoutside.
But just remembering that truehealth is internal.
(29:05):
It's how you're sleeping, it'show your digestion is working,
if your cycle is regular, if youhave energy, if you feel strong
, if you feel grounded, all thatsort of stuff, and so you can
absolutely get lean and behealthy.
But just remembering that itdoesn't always, they don't
always equal each other, but Iwould say that, especially for
(29:29):
women, but also for men, beingtotally peeled, meaning like
bodybuilding stage ready, that'snot going to be a healthy place
to be for anyone.
And so, yeah, just making sureyou do have a healthy amount of
body fat, we're not too, toolean.
But also just remembering that,like I'll give a personal
(29:49):
example I was at this weightthat I am now a few years ago
and I felt extremely hungry, Ifelt cold all the time.
I felt so many cravings andthis hyper fixation about food.
It felt very unhealthy for meand so, you know, I gained
(30:10):
weight, was able to, you know,get past some of those issues
and I just thought to myself Iguess I'm just not meant to be
that lean.
But recently I've been able toget this lean and not have those
issues that I did beforebecause of the methods that I've
been taking.
And so that's a little caveatjust to like think about is try
(30:34):
and not have that like fixedmindset about.
Oh, just cause I felt this waywhen I was lean means I have to
feel that way next time, becausejust where your body's at
hormonally, where your body's atin all the ways, the methods
that you take to get there, aregoing to matter a ton.
And what I've done now is beingable to really work on my blood
(30:55):
sugar regulation, which, oh mygosh, if you guys have it,
that's a nice like um, you knowa little bit more in like the
biohacker world type in my eyes,but it's just a really amazing
health tool to be able to trackyour blood sugars.
And how you can do that is takea fasted blood sugar reading
(31:15):
with a little uh blood sugarreader device first thing in the
morning and you can see whatyour fasted blood sugars are.
And then also, you want to getsome readings post-prandial, so
two hours or so after you eatactually after your last bite of
food set a two hour timer, takeyour blood sugar and see where
(31:38):
it's coming to, for you knowpeople who are really stressed.
You know you're training reallyhard.
Like me, I've been an athletefor a long time and I, you know,
put pressure on myself in termsof business and all that you
know, fun stuff.
Um, that really led me to justhaving dysregulated blood sugar,
and I think probably for awhile, and I didn't even know it
(32:01):
, and that was a really big keyfor me to say, all right, I need
to heal this, and that's what'sgotten rid of so many cravings
for me, helped me just come to amuch better place, and so
that's a really nice tool to use.
If you'd be interested intrying that out, I highly
recommend.
I actually just got a CGMcontinuous glucose monitor to
(32:26):
try out.
I hear a lot of conflictingthings about the accuracy.
However, I'm kind of looking atit as okay.
Even if it's not accurate.
You're going to be able to seethe differences and see.
You know the changes.
So you know, my coach told mewe're going to add five to 10
points to each reading.
Just, you know that's what wetypically do.
(32:46):
So that's what.
That's what I'm currently doingand that's just been a big
catalyst for my journey, but I'mso off track from what the
question is.
Philip Pape (33:00):
And we don't need to pick it back up.
It's okay Just to pull on thatthread a bit.
I do love the idea of okay, ifthe advice is to eat more fiber
and balance your macros andbalance meals, because the
result is it helps with yourblood sugar, just one way to do
it.
It's nice to have data andtrends that kind of correlate.
Okay, this is what happens whenI do this.
Not get freaked out because Ieat potatoes and my blood sugar
spiked, right.
(33:22):
So, um, in fact, holly Baxterwas on the show, right, ifpp
bikini pro.
She's awesome, and she talkedabout using the calories burned
from your wearable and exercise,which originally I was like, oh
no, what's she going to say?
She's like using the trend ofthat over time and how it
changes to see how active youare and how much volume you may
have.
I'm like, oh, that's cool.
Like the number is not accurateat all, but like, for you, the
(33:43):
trend over time could tell yousomething, so it's the right way
.
So, in the interest of timecause I know we're trying to
keep these two episodes likereasonable Can I do like three
rapid fire questions for you?
Yeah, go off, all right.
So the first one, which is kindof a big side topic, but what's
the best way to improvecardiovascular health and
markers, like you know, restingheart rate.
Anna Clough (34:02):
Ooh, yeah.
So walk, do some sort of cardiothat you enjoy If that is
biking, that is some hiking, ifthat is, you know whatever that
might be for you and thenpotentially some interval type
training, some high intensitytype training.
(34:27):
Even just a few minutes perweek is an amazing way to
improve your cardiovascularfitness Cool, Just don't overdo
the cardio right.
Yeah, don't overdo it.
It's a great compliment tostrength as being your base.
Philip Pape (34:37):
How do you lower cholesterol?
So people are that's, that's amarker of health Everybody and
their doctor knows to look at.
How do you do that?
Lower your lipids, your LDL?
Anna Clough (34:45):
Yeah, great question.
So, first off, nutrition isgoing to be huge Overall.
Just, I mean, improving all ofthese different factors is going
to lead to that, like such aholistic approach is going to be
really what's going to helpwith that.
Philip Pape (35:02):
And what is your favorite habit framework.
Anna Clough (35:05):
Habit framework who , like as in building, building
habits there's so many ways toapproach it, yeah absolutely so.
My where my brain wentimmediately was habit stacking
love, habit stacking love.
Taking a habit that you alreadydo every single day and pairing
that with something you'retrying to build.
That is going to make it stick.
(35:28):
That's going to make it so mucheasier.
So, if you're trying toimplement something, find
something you already do andjust do both same time.
Philip Pape (35:35):
Love it, love habit stacking.
That's a great tip for folks,just if they say I don't have
time for that, no, you're doingsomething else that you can
stack, all right.
So, kind of to recap, it soundslike if you do the right things
for your body in terms oftaking a reasonable approach,
strength training, eatingnutritious foods and protein,
keeping the stress managementthere, getting enough sleep
(35:57):
guess what?
All the things we you and Italk about all the time it's
going to give you health andlongevity and it's probably
gonna make you look good too.
So I know, if you love today'sconversation, um, again, go
check out Anna's show get strongand healthy.
What a simple, easy to remembername for a podcast where we're
going to talk about theaesthetic side of this, and
you're going to hear someoverlap, for sure, but there's
(36:17):
always little differences.
Is there any last thing abouthealth and longevity that you
really wanted to cover that wedidn't get to?
Anna Clough (36:23):
Yeah, I think really just making sure you're
coming at your journey fromthinking about building a
sustainable lifestyle.
At the end of the day, we cantake some fun you know
short-term strategies but wealso need to make sure that we
are showing up for thesedifferent values we have of
(36:43):
taking care of ourselves, eatingwell, working out, training,
whatever in the long run andmaking sure that you can just
keep this up so that you can bestrong and healthy today and for
the longevity.
Philip Pape (36:57):
Sustainability, the underlying glue that binds all
of this.
Ask yourself if what you'redoing is, if it isn't, something
might be able to change and doeverything Anna's suggesting.
It doesn't take a lot toincorporate those and get a
massive result for your effort.
So thank you again, anna, fordoing this.
Again, I'm excited for thecollaboration.
Glad we got to talk through atleast the basics.
(37:18):
It's a big topic, I know.
Go find Anna's podcast.
Get Strong and Healthy.
Use the link in the show notes.
And, anna, thank you for comingon.
Anna Clough (37:26):
Yeah, thanks so much for having me.
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