November 10, 2025 • 33 mins
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How much protein do you need to build and maintain muscle?
Do you need to hit the "leucine threshold" for muscle protein synthesis?
Is there an "anabolic window" after strength training?
Does per-meal distribution, timing, and amount matter?
Today we're revisiting the latest evidence on PROTEIN! Whether you're eating 250 grams daily or struggling to hit 100, this evidence-based breakdown will help you dial in your nutrition strategy for maximum muscle gains without overthinking macros or wasting money.
Episode Resources
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Timestamps
0:00 - What the research actually shows about protein intake
5:28 - Daily protein targets for muscle building
10:56 - Why more protein doesn't mean more muscle gains
14:40 - Per-meal protein distribution and the leucine threshold
21:06 - The anabolic window myth and when timing actually matters
24:40 - Protein quality - animal vs plant sources for strength training
28:17 - When high protein intake backfires (and steals your gains)
31:42 - Common protein mistakes lifters make (and easy fixes)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Philip Pape (00:00):
How much protein do you actually need?
You've seen everything from thebros saying you need three
grams per pound, hundreds ofgrams of protein, to the
minimalists who say just barelyover the RDA.
Meanwhile, some coach onInstagram is telling you you
have to have exactly 30 grams ofprotein per meal, and anything
more than that gets wasted.
And my thought after all theseyears is the devils are in the
(00:22):
details, but it's about nuancemore than anything.
And so today we're gonna goback to the research, the
meta-analyses, the data acrosshundreds of studies to answer
the questions that actuallymatter.
How much protein per day, howmuch protein per meal, and does
timing matters?
(00:45):
Welcome to Wits and Weights,the show that helps you build a
strong, healthy physique usingevidence, engineering, and
efficiency.
I'm your host, certifiednutrition coach, Philip Pape,
and today we're gonna again cutthrough the noise and
conflicting advice on somethingvery important that we all care
about, and that is proteinintake for muscle building.
(01:07):
I think this topic isovercomplicated.
You have so many differentvoices from supplement companies
to studies to Instagram socialmedia influencers to science
experts to bros, all telling youdifferent things.
And I think there's a lot ofoutdated myths as well about
absorption and anabolic windowsand all of these.
(01:27):
So we're just gonna go back towhat the totality of evidence
actually shows.
We're not gonna cherry pickanything, we're not gonna rely
on bro science.
We're gonna take decades ofwhat we know from everything and
simplify it to the targets youwant to know.
So let's start with whyeveryone is still confused about
protein.
If you've spent any timeresearching this topic, and many
(01:50):
of you have, you listen topodcasts that you hear talk
about it all the time.
Here's yet another episode fromWits and Weights, you've
probably encountered fivedifferent recommendations at any
one time.
And they all claim to bescience-based and they all
conflict.
And that's as simple as it isas to why it's confusing,
because you you hear me talkabout a range of, say, 0.7 to 1
(02:11):
gram per pound.
And I pretty much stick to thateven to this day.
We'll get into that.
But I've seen much highernumbers, 1.2 to 1.4 in some
cases, when you hear the youknow, protein modified fast
community or the rapid fat loss,or the, you know, if you're an
athlete, you really need a lotmore.
I've seen a lot recommendedbecause you're a lot older or
you're a woman, so you need alot more due to inefficiency.
(02:33):
I've heard round numbers like,hey, you know, big dudes that
are trying to lift, you gottaget at least three or four
hundred grams of protein, right?
And then on the other end, youhave people coming out and
saying, you know what, the morewe see the research, the more we
realize that the threshold isactually much less.
And there's some truth to thatas well.
And then there's somewhere inbetween where people are arguing
(02:55):
that you have to get down to isit about your ideal body
weight, your current bodyweight, your lean body mass?
Like, how do we calculate allthis?
And that's another point ofconfusion.
And then there's the debateabout how much do you eat per
meal?
Can you absorb more than acertain amount of protein at
once?
You know, 30 grams, 40 grams.
You've heard about the 100 gramstudy where they looked at 100
grams, and that seemed to befine in terms of muscle protein
(03:17):
synthesis, and maybe it'ssuperior.
And do you need proteinfrequently throughout the day,
or can you have it just once ortwice?
So I think a lot of this comesfrom every time a study comes
out, we like moths to a flame,gravitate toward what it says
and give it a lot of importance.
And then when the next studycomes out, we like to use it to
say, oh, look, that thing waswrong.
Here's the other thing, and itcreates a nice hot take.
(03:39):
There's also supplementcompanies involved here, and you
know, who knows what to believewhen it comes to that.
I'm not the type to say, well,just because it's funded by a
company means the research isflawed.
But I also am not surprised ifif you're trying to sell whey
protein that you want people toeat as much whey protein as
possible.
Now, the good news is we have alot of information on this.
We have meta analyses whichpool together hundreds of
(04:02):
studies and data acrossdifferent populations and
trading statuses, ages.
And that's the other thing istraining status, right?
Are we talking about people wholift and perform and athletes
and those of us who listen tothis show want to build muscle,
or are we talking about thegeneral sedentary population?
And sometimes it actuallydoesn't matter.
Believe it or not, sometimesthere is a minimum, no matter
what, that you're going to needto, for example, hold on to what
(04:23):
little muscle you might have,even if you're not building it.
But if you're listening to witsand weights, you care about
building and maintaining muscleas effectively as you can.
So let's go to the nextsection, which is the number
that everyone wants to knowtotal daily protein.
For most people, liftingweights and trying to build or
maintain muscle, the researchconsistently supports a range of
(04:44):
about 0.7 to one grams ofprotein per pound of body
weight.
That's it.
Super simple.
Don't get hung up in, you know,is it 0.7 or 0.8?
Is it target body weight, idealbody weight, lean mass?
Just don't get hung up in thatbecause the 0.701, first of all,
it's a big range and your bodyweight's going to be changing.
(05:04):
And secondly, it's itsimplifies it so it's practical
and is more than enough to getthe job done.
By the way, in metric, that's1.6 to 2.2 grams per kilogram.
So if you weigh 150 pounds, itgives you a nice wide range of
about 105 to 150 grams.
If you weigh 175, that's 120 to175.
If you're a 200-pound person,so a lot of you guys out there,
(05:24):
my height, who are like 5'9,5'10, are kind of in that range,
you know, 180, 200, 220 in thatrange.
Then you're talking 140 to 200,right?
Not 300 grams of protein.
Now, some of you have heardthat you need way more than
that.
And somehow, and there's goodhot, there's a lot of hot takes
today.
We're like, well, I'm hearingall this stuff about lower
protein ranges, but really, youknow, serious lifters and
(05:46):
athletes and guys who want toget big just need a ton, a lot
more than that, right?
You see this with the bigjacked influencers, like you
need at least 250 grams.
You need 300 grams.
So can you eat more protein?
Sure.
Will it hurt you?
Probably not.
Okay.
However, if it starts todisplace other important macros
and nutrients and foods andmakes it harder to be practical,
(06:08):
that itself is a hugeconsideration when we think of
adherence and the benefits offats and carbs as well and other
nutrients.
Will having that much moreprotein lead to more muscle
growth?
No, and that's the point, islike you don't need it.
But if you like more proteinand that's a great way to eat
for you, and you're gettingenough of everything else, it's
fine.
So the protein's kind of aninteresting one in that there is
(06:30):
a minimum you want to hit onaverage, but there's not really
a maximum, but you also don'tneed a lot more than a certain
amount.
And there are plenty ofmeta-analyses on these that show
a plateauing of lean mass gainsstarting at around that 0.7
grams per pound.
Now you're thinking, oh, 0.7, Ithought you said 0.721.
(06:51):
Well, that's the point.
0.71 starts to get diminishingreturns, but still a worthwhile
set of returns for most peopleif you're lifting weights.
And then it really starts todrop off at one.
Now, there are corner caseslike rapid fat loss where you're
not eating very much and you'retrying to hold as much muscle
as possible.
There are cases to be made forgoing above one gram per pound,
(07:13):
right?
So, in a fat loss phase ingeneral, we know that higher
protein preserves muscle masswhile in a deficit.
So I'm perfectly okay saying,you know what, going up to 1.2
grams per pound might be aworthwhile experiment for you.
It's worth trying that.
Now, it's going to be hard todo because your fats and carbs
are limited by the caloriesremaining and the carbs really
(07:36):
take a hit.
So for some people, theyactually feel less energetic
because of the fewer carbs.
And for others, it helps thembecause of, for example,
satiety, and they do see higherlean mass retention.
If you're older, over 50, over40, even, slightly higher
protein can probably overcomesome of your anabolic
resistance.
That actually is a thing whereyour body has a reduced
(07:57):
sensitivity to the musclebuilding signals, and you're
giving yourself an extra littleadvantage because you're just
not as efficient.
If you're a competitiveathlete, you're training at very
high volumes.
Again, you might benefit fromthe upper end.
These are the tails of thecurve, right?
When we talk about a normalcurve in a study, these are the
tails, the extreme ends of thecurve.
And I don't talk in extremeshere on this show.
(08:18):
I try to give a decent targetfor most people.
And then if you've gotten thereconsistently as a foundation,
well, now you're ready to pushinto other levels.
Don't try to jump all the way.
I doubt you're a competitiveathlete if you're not already
getting enough of thefoundational protein, right?
And I'll say most people whothink that they're under-eating
(08:39):
protein, they are able to getwhere they need to be once they
start tracking, trackingaccurately.
That's really it.
And you can track in a numberof ways.
You can track using a foodlogging app like Macrofactor or
MyFitness Power, whatever.
You can also do it justmanually.
You could do it by quantitiesand portions.
If you are eating, let's sayfour meals a day, or let's say
three meals plus a snack a day,and every single one of those
(09:00):
has a decent amount of protein.
You know, like a third of theplate is some sort of lean
protein, animal product, dairy,like yogurt, cottage cheese.
If you're eating plant-basedprotein, you're gonna need more
quantities to get that, right?
Like an oatmeal or a quinoa orsomething like that.
Obviously, protein shakes, youknow pretty much exactly what
you're getting.
Then you, then you know whereyou're at and you know where you
(09:21):
need to be.
And that's really the firststep for many of us, just to
have that awareness.
Again, even if it's just visualquantities and portions.
And I think people eating a lotof protein who just love to eat
a ton of meat.
I know ranchers who just getunlimited cow, you know, meat,
and they're up in 200, 250, andthey may not be aware how much
they're eating.
(09:42):
Same idea.
It's like, hey, now we canbalance it down and give us some
rooms, more room for a littlebit of those fats, but
especially the carbs.
The carbs, I know thisepisode's about protein, but
they all work together.
And to me, not having enoughcarbs can be its own major
detriment for a lifter,especially in say fat loss when
the calories are tight, but alsoeven when muscle building, if
(10:04):
you're jacking that protein upso high, and let's say you're
eating 3,000 calories, guys, andyet you're only getting 120
grams of carbs, that's a hugemissed opportunity to jack that
up to 300 grams of carbs by justdropping some of that
unnecessarily high protein.
All right.
And that's just a fact.
I've seen it happen.
I've talked to plenty oflifters, really good coaches in
(10:24):
the space, and they all agreelike you don't need that much
protein.
So 0.7 to 1 grams per poundstill stands as a really great
range.
All right, next, let's talkabout distribu distribution
throughout the day, because thishas evolved as well.
The per meal protein, I think,does matter, and it maybe it
(10:44):
matters even more than peoplethink, but not the way that you
think it matters.
So there are still claims thatyou can only absorb so much
protein at once, you know, andyou'll hear numbers like 30
grams.
And that's complete nonsense.
Your body doesn't waste proteinafter some arbitrary threshold.
If you eat a hundred grams ofprotein in one meal, your body
(11:07):
is still going to use it andstill stimulate muscle protein
synthesis over a longer periodafter that meal because you have
so much protein.
So it doesn't magicallydisappear.
You don't have to worry aboutthat.
But spreading protein acrossmultiple meals has lots of other
benefits that are worthexploring.
Okay, this is where the nuancecomes come in and the the
details.
(11:28):
So we know that every time youeat a protein-rich meal, you do
spike muscle protein synthesis,and the signal peaks a few hours
after eating and then graduallycome back comes back down.
So if you eat proteinfrequently enough throughout the
day, you're creating multiplepeaks.
Whereas if you eat most of yourprotein in one or two massive
(11:51):
meals, you get fewer peaks.
But the difference betweenthose two extremes isn't as big
as we used to think.
That's that's the thing I wantto say is that I still believe
the evidence tells us there's aslight advantage to having
multiple meals from thatperspective, spreading
throughout the day for muscleprotein synthesis, but it is
small enough that practicalconsiderations to me are more
(12:13):
important, like your digestion,eating balanced meals, those
other things.
So I I wanted to mention that,yeah, there might be a slight
advantage, but also there'sthings that offset it.
There's trade-offs.
And I would say if you had topick a range just for
practicality and evendistribution, for most people,
that's gonna be like 25 to 45grams of protein.
Like you don't want to havejust five grams of protein in a
(12:36):
meal unless you're you're justsaying, look, I'm not even
thinking of having protein inthis meal.
I'm having this meal because ofcarbs, or it's a post-meal
workout without protein,whatever, something like that.
But for the most part, ifyou're going to deliberately
have protein, you know, aim tohave some substantial amount,
20, 25, 30 grams in there.
And then the upper limitdoesn't really matter, right?
(12:56):
It all depends on your size andyour age and how much you're
trying to eat a day.
Us a petite female trying toeat 100 grams a day, you know,
has a little more flexibility onthat versus a man trying to get
200 grams a day, you know.
So if you're like a 200-poundlifter, then if you're gonna
have three to five meals, you dothe math, you're gonna need
(13:17):
like 30 to 40 five grams permeal on average.
Keeping in mind that yourdinner might have 70 grams,
which lowers than the averagesfor the rest of the meals.
But if you're only like 150pounds, then that comes down to
say 25 to 30 grams per meal.
Now, the minimum is anotherpoint of conversation here, that
25 grams.
(13:37):
There's still evidence thatshows us leucine, leucine is one
of the essential amino acidsand one of the most important
ones that triggers muscleprotein synthesis, that you need
two and a half to three gramsof leucine per meal to maximize
the signal.
Again, it's a matter ofdegrees.
It's not like a all or nothing.
But again, just to be smart andpractical about it and then
(14:00):
stop thinking about it afterthat, it getting a minimum of,
say, 25 total grams per mealincludes roughly that two and a
half to three grams of leucine,assuming it's mostly
high-quality protein sourcesthat have the leucine.
Remember, protein has essentialamino acids, but they don't
always have all of them.
Animal products do.
Most plant products don't.
(14:20):
They have to be combined, withsome exceptions.
I think quinoa might have themall.
It's definitely not a dealbreaker if you have a diverse
diet.
If you're vegan or vegetarian,it just makes a little harder.
You have to be a little moreintentional.
That's really all it is.
We don't want to fear monger onthis stuff.
So, eggs, dairy, beef, poultry,of course, whey protein is
probably the highest quality,which is why I'm not against
(14:42):
using whey as a little bit ofsupplementation in your diet.
And they will give you thatroughly 10% of the protein as
leucine, which means at least 25grams gets you at least two and
a half grams of leucine.
Does that make sense?
So, again, plant proteins,you'd need more than that to hit
the threshold.
And so combining plant proteinsand eating more high bigger
(15:04):
portions of those is gonna workreally well.
And you just have to watch outfor the carbs and fats that come
along for the ride.
Right?
There are protein powders thatare vegan, though, like pea and
rice blend that will give you asimilar advantage as whey.
So, in practice, if you'reeating, let's say three meals a
day, just have protein in everymeal.
I mean, that's really thesolution.
I prefer you have justbalanced, balanced meals and
(15:27):
feedings.
I get that you might want tohave an afternoon snack with a
couple of cups of berries, let'ssay.
Okay, fine.
I'm talking about ones thathave substantive calories, make
them balanced.
And so let's say you have tohit 180 grams a day of protein,
like I do, that's 60 grams permeal if I'm eating three meals.
Now, I tend to eat four, if notfive times a day, depending on
(15:48):
the phase.
So I only need, say, 40 to 50.
Now, if I have a really bigprotein shake that right there,
that's 60 grams of protein, allright.
Well, that covers a good chunkof the protein right there.
So just do the math.
Avoid a pattern where you'relike 10 grams at breakfast, 10,
20 grams at lunch, and then 130grams at dinner, because you're
also gonna have issues withdigestion, practicality, meal
(16:11):
planning, whatnot.
But if it's a natural part ofyour pattern and it works for
you, what matters is the totalprotein.
Most of all, I just wanted toaddress the distribution and
timing anyway.
Now, we're talking ofoptimization here.
There is one thing that I wantto mention real quick, give a
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(16:32):
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All right, so let's get back toprotein.
And we talked about totalprotein, we talked about
distribution.
Now let's talk about timingbecause I see a lot of anxiety
(18:16):
from people who are asking mequestions about protein.
And some of it has to do withlike, do I need to have protein
right after my workout?
When do I have protein, etc.?
So the anabolic window, this issomething that used to be
talked about a lot more.
I hear less and less of it.
It is a theoretical window,like 15, 30 minutes after
(18:36):
training, where you must consumeprotein or you're gonna lose
all your gains.
I want to be clear.
It's almost nonsense.
I'm gonna say it that way.
It's an exaggeration, asignificant exaggeration.
Because yes, there is a periodafter training where your
muscles are primed to respond toprotein, but it's several
hours, sometimes even longerthan that, depending on when you
(18:59):
ate before training.
And total daily protein intakeis what still matters absolutely
the most, more than thedistribution or the timing.
But all of these things arepart of your experiment.
They're part of, hey, if you'renot doing this, try it and see
if it makes a difference foryou.
So if you train early in themorning, let's say 6 a.m.
(19:20):
and you train fasted, but youeat at seven or eight, that's
fine.
I mean, you you'll get used totraining fasted.
For most people, I find theyactually do better when they eat
before they train, but noteverybody.
Some people are cool with this.
If you train at noon and youeat lunch at one or two, again,
that's fine.
If you train in the evening andthen you eat dinner within a
couple hours, it's fine.
(19:41):
Like that's it.
Don't overthink it.
The only scenario where I thinkpost-workout timing becomes
really important is thatscenario I just mentioned where
you train, you train fasted andyou haven't had protein in like
many, many, many hours.
You actually will probably feelbetter if you have some protein
a little bit sooner, but itdoesn't have to be 30 minutes.
I mean, within an hour or two,I'm just saying don't wait hours
(20:03):
and hours and hours and hoursbecause that could give you a
suboptimal result in terms ofyour gym time, which is we're
trying to maximize that.
I think what matters more thanpost-workout timing is
consistent protein intakethroughout the day.
Oh, sound familiar.
It's the last thing we talkedabout.
(20:47):
And there's research thatcompares like front loading your
protein versus evenlydistributing.
And again, the evendistribution shows slightly
better protein synthesis, but itshouldn't override the
practicality of it that we'vealready discussed.
So that's really all I have tosay is just if you train fasted,
(21:07):
eat within a couple hours.
If you've eaten protein beforeyour workout, like I most I
recommend to a lot of people abanana and a whey protein, you
know, whey protein at least halfan hour before you work out as
a minimum.
Because that way you get somefast digesting, easy on your
stomach protein and carbs.
And the banana is pretty lowfiber and it has electrolytes.
(21:28):
That's just one thought.
Okay.
Try that out.
Then when you work out, yeah,you've got many hours before you
have to eat after that.
Most of us are gonna feelgreat, though, having some
protein and carbs within an houror two, anyway, to kind of
refill that glycogen.
But it's not like you're gonnaimmediately train again.
So it's cool.
It's cool, guys.
Okay.
All right.
Now let's move to where yourprotein comes from and protein
(21:50):
quality, because this is yetanother area that is highly
fear-mongered on social media.
Protein quality.
And usually it's people tryingto sell you something that is,
in their mind, in opinion,higher quality.
And this could be a supplementcompany that says, oh, we have
clean ingredients.
And I get it.
Look, if you if you formulatedsomething that you're really
(22:11):
proud of, people find itdelicious and it makes their
body feel good.
And they had trouble with otherproducts that had things like
additives, dyes, artificialsweeteners, sugar alcohols,
blah, blah, blah.
And that's a selling point foryou.
I understand that.
This is capitalism, as long asyou're not lying, right?
As long as you, you know, I getit.
But oftentimes they stretch thetruth a bit by suggesting that
(22:35):
the other product is so farinferior because it doesn't have
the same level of quality andtherefore it can't help you with
building muscle.
Look, pretty much protein isprotein, and I say it that way
in the sense that the samesource of protein.
Like if two protein bars havewhey protein, it's still whey
protein, despite all the otheringredients around it, right?
They're two different issueswe're talking about.
(22:56):
And I would say what makessomething high quality in this
context is just two things.
Does it have the complete aminoacid profile?
So that would be ananimal-based protein or a
combination of plant-basedproteins like pea and rice.
And does it have reasonableleucine content, which is solved
by what we just said?
So they go hand in hand, right?
Animal proteins, eggs, dairy,beef, poultry, fish, whey, they
(23:18):
check the boxes easily.
And plant proteins can totallybuild muscle, but many
individual sources are a littlebit lower in one or more of
these essential amino acids.
But it's a simple solution,just combine them throughout the
day.
And if you're if you are avegetarian or vegan, I would
hope that you have a thus have avery diverse diet.
Now, I've known what I calldessert vegetarians who don't
(23:40):
even eat vegetables and eat alot of like processed foods.
I'm not talking to thosepeople.
That that's a problem foromnivores and vegans and
vegetarians, right?
So I'm talking about if you eatwhole foods, you have a diverse
diet, you have enough foods inthere to cover all your bases.
For people who don't eat meator animal products, that's rice
and beans, soy and grains, peasand hemp, more total protein
(24:03):
from plant sources tocompensate, things like that.
It's not a big deal.
I would so if you're vegan orvegetarian, in other words, I
would go back to my first topictoday and shoot more for the
higher grams per pound just tocover your bases.
And also if you're over 40,when it comes to protein
quality, again, is it moreimportant?
It's only important from asense of are you able to absorb
(24:24):
enough of what you need?
And so I always like pushing ita little bit higher, just a
little bit, you know, more onthat 1.0 rather than the 0.7.
If you want to push to 1.1,1.2, perfectly fine.
Perfectly fine.
Okay.
This is more optimization, notmake or break.
If you're in that range, you'regood.
Okay, the next topic is whendoes more protein become
(24:44):
counterproductive?
I alluded to this already, butI had a special topic on this
because the idea is, okay, well,if protein is good, more
protein is better, and even moreis even better.
Up to a point that's true.
Past that point, you're gonnamake your diet just less
balanced and you're gonna makeit less practical.
And maybe it's gonna be moreexpensive too, because usually
(25:06):
it costs more to have moreprotein in your diet.
And so now you're displacingother nutrients, other macros,
potentially wasting your money.
And we mentioned how muscleprotein synthesis plateaus
around it starts plateauing at0.7 grams per pound, and then
going beyond one offers minimaladditional benefit.
So the point of revisiting thistopic is simply if you want
(25:27):
enough carbs for energy to keepyour stress low, to help with
your hormones, to help buildmuscle, to help preserve muscle,
if you want enough fat forhormone support, for taste, you
know, for having a deliciousdiet, then that's gonna be the
offset to having so much proteinin your diet.
And I've definitely had clientswho are big protein eaters and
(25:48):
it was almost, you know,challenging their philosophy of
existence to ask them to droptheir protein a bit.
But if you're listening andyou're in that camp, the way I
suggest doing it is actually afairly, how do I put this?
A fairly meaningful switch asan experiment.
Meaning if you eat 250 grams ofprotein, drop it by like 40
(26:11):
grams a day, you know, to like210 or even 200, and give all of
that to carbs.
Because remember, protein andcarbs are the same energy
density, whereas fat has higherenergy density.
So you can basically swap onefor the other.
So if you drop 50 grams ofprotein, you can increase 50
grams of carbs.
See what that does for yourbiofeedback, for your hunger,
(26:33):
your digestion, your energy andsleep, how you perform in the
gym, all of those things andsee, because you might be
surprised.
You might be like, whoa, I wasactually missing carbs all this
time.
And I'm reassured that I don'teven need that much protein.
So this is my new balance.
Pretty cool.
So just a quick recap (26:49):
take your body weight, multiply by
0.7, that's your minimum, andthat's in pounds, guys, right?
Or 1.6 if you're doingkilograms, and that's your
minimum.
And then you can kind of go upfrom there based on preference
and balance.
And push toward the higher endif you're a little bit older,
push toward the higher end ifyou're definitely into
(27:10):
performance and athleticism andlifting.
Push a little higher if you'rein fat loss.
Definitely push higher ifyou're in a very aggressive fat
loss phase.
Stop stressing about thewindow, just eat within a couple
hours after working out.
Spread throughout the daybecause it's pretty much pretty
practical and you will maximizemuscle protein synthesis, but
you don't have to have it atevery meal.
You don't have to spread itout.
It just tends to be morepractical.
(27:32):
Focus on quality, and qualityis simply diversity of your
foods and enough of it.
That's it.
Pretty simple.
So before we wrap up, I do havea few, I'll say myths or
mistakes people make that Iwanted to address based on your
questions and comments to meover the past few years.
So the first one is saving allyour protein for dinner.
If you're eating low-proteinbreakfast and lunch and trying
(27:54):
to have all this at dinner, I'mnot saying it's bad to do that.
What I'm saying is you end upgetting stressed because this is
where I hear somebody say, Ihaven't hit my protein, but I'm
almost at my calories.
What do I do?
Should I try to hit my proteinand go over my calories?
Or should I stay here and hitmy calories?
And I'm like, okay, the problemhere isn't the answer to that
question.
The problem is that you gotthere in the first place.
(28:15):
I don't really care about theanswer to that question.
I mean, usually I'll say, justhit your calories and be done
with the day and take the lossand the next day preload your
protein better.
That's all.
You know, spread it out.
That's that's why you do that,because we don't want to try to
get 100 grams at dinner.
The next thing is that, youknow, people dismiss plant
proteins or it's really anafterthought.
(28:37):
And we're finding more and morepotential benefits to just
having more plants in your dietin general.
So, you know, not just fiber,but you know, polyphenols and
compounds, vitamins, nutrients,so many reasons to have plants
in your diet, you might as wellbias that toward
protein-containing plants.
And so it behooves you to learna little bit about which foods
(28:59):
contain more protein than otherfoods.
Like oats and quinoa come tomind as having more, you know,
various uh grains, uh pastaproducts, cereal grains, are
crazy high in protein as well,right?
Like just bread.
People are surprised how muchprotein is in bread if you have
a sandwich.
Obviously, you get the carbsalong for the ride.
People are like, well, that'sprocessed foods.
Look, it's a matter of degrees,okay?
(29:19):
We talked about the anabolicwindow, so I'm not gonna hammer
that home again.
We talked about thinking moreis always better.
Okay, the next one I have isyou know, ignoring overall
calories, right?
It's not just about protein.
Yes, I think if you're notpaying attention to anything
right now and you start addingin protein to every meal because
you're under-eating, that's agreat first step.
(29:39):
Then I would add protein inevery meal as well.
I mean, uh fiber in every meal.
So once you got protein andfiber added to each meal, take
this additive approach.
You start to get in thesereally good foods for you on
your plate.
It starts to displace otherthings.
But then at that point, youstill might be overconsuming.
Now, maybe you'reunderconsuming too, different
issue.
The point is there is an aspectof energy intake that has to
(30:01):
be, you have to pay attentionto.
The good thing about protein isit's the most filling macro.
It also burns the most caloriesbeing digested.
So a lot of people when theyadd protein in, especially when
they double or triple becausethey were far under consuming,
they find that their hungersignals regulate better and they
eat less, they eat fewercalories after all, even though
they're eating more caloriesfrom protein, if that makes
(30:23):
sense.
So, just all together, if youstart your day with protein.
Your breakfast in a meaningfulamount.
That's where a lot of peopledon't even have that.
That's your action for today islook at your breakfast.
If you don't have at least 25grams of protein, how can you
change that?
And that's kind of the momentumbuilder or the catalyst to get
you going.
So the last thing I'm going toclose with here is really about
(30:43):
meal planning in general,because hitting your protein
targets consistently is aboutstructuring day to day what you
should eat.
And that's all it is.
So I have something called theMeal Planning Advisor GPT.
It's a chat GPT, GPT that Icreated and I've trained it.
It's inside PhysiqueUniversity.
So anybody who's in there getsaccess to it.
(31:05):
If you're not in PhysiqueUniversity, what are you waiting
for?
Join us, witsandwaits.com/slashphysique.
Use my special code for podcastlisteners.
It's FreePlan.
And you can get the custom thefree custom nutrition plan as
well.
But once you're in there, thisis one of the many tools we give
you.
And what I love about this toolis I've trained it with our
philosophy of flexible eating,with lots of stuff from my brain
(31:27):
and from what the science hastaught me that's super flexible
and practical.
So it's essentially aconversational way to say, okay,
where do I start?
I know I need to get moreprotein.
Here are my macros, or here'swhat I'm trying to do, here's
what I like and don't like, andit will prompt you for things
like that.
And here's your meal plan.
Like here's what you here's apotential meal plan.
(31:47):
And then you tell it what youlike to eat, how much time you
have, what your goals are, andit generates that for you,
whether it's a single meal, thea daily meal plan, the weekly
meal plan.
It could give you a grocerylist, all that fun stuff.
This is one of the aspects ofAI that I really love because
it's information.
I think information should befree.
Now I'm telling you to join apaid program to get access to
(32:09):
this.
This is a GPT that I spent timeand effort training, and I want
to give that value to ourclients and members.
That's one of the reasons theyjoin us.
Obviously, you can go to AI anddo this stuff yourself, but the
Meal Planning Advisor GPTcurates it all for you ahead of
time.
It's trained ahead of time, soit'll give you what I'll call
the right answer instead of youhaving to chase down and play
(32:30):
around with it.
And of course, in physiqueuniversity, you get all the
tools, support, trainingtemplates, community support
needed, and courses to help youlose fat and build muscle and
get to your goal in a much moreefficient way.
Go to wittowace.com slashphysique.
Use my code FREEPLAN to getthat custom nutrition plan.
And I hope that answered allyour questions about the big
(32:51):
things in protein.
If I didn't add answer aquestion you have about protein,
it's probably because itdoesn't matter.
And I don't mean that to be ajerk.
I mean that to take it off yourmind, take it off your chest,
and not even not even worryabout it.
But if you do have questions,you know how to reach me.
Until next time, keep usingyour wits, lifting those
weights.
And remember that your body iscapable of incredible things,
(33:12):
but it needs the right fuel, theright type of fuel, the right
stimulus over time.
One of those is protein.
This is Philip Pape, and I'lltalk to you next time here on
the Wits and Weights podcast.
How much protein do you actually need?
You've seen everything from thebros saying you need three
grams per pound, hundreds ofgrams of protein, to the
minimalists who say just barelyover the RDA.
Meanwhile, some coach onInstagram is telling you you
have to have exactly 30 grams ofprotein per meal, and anything
more than that gets wasted.
And my thought after all theseyears is the devils are in the
(00:22):
details, but it's about nuancemore than anything.
And so today we're gonna goback to the research, the
meta-analyses, the data acrosshundreds of studies to answer
the questions that actuallymatter.
How much protein per day, howmuch protein per meal, and does
timing matters?
(00:45):
Welcome to Wits and Weights,the show that helps you build a
strong, healthy physique usingevidence, engineering, and
efficiency.
I'm your host, certifiednutrition coach, Philip Pape,
and today we're gonna again cutthrough the noise and
conflicting advice on somethingvery important that we all care
about, and that is proteinintake for muscle building.
(01:07):
I think this topic isovercomplicated.
You have so many differentvoices from supplement companies
to studies to Instagram socialmedia influencers to science
experts to bros, all telling youdifferent things.
And I think there's a lot ofoutdated myths as well about
absorption and anabolic windowsand all of these.
(01:27):
So we're just gonna go back towhat the totality of evidence
actually shows.
We're not gonna cherry pickanything, we're not gonna rely
on bro science.
We're gonna take decades ofwhat we know from everything and
simplify it to the targets youwant to know.
So let's start with whyeveryone is still confused about
protein.
If you've spent any timeresearching this topic, and many
(01:50):
of you have, you listen topodcasts that you hear talk
about it all the time.
Here's yet another episode fromWits and Weights, you've
probably encountered fivedifferent recommendations at any
one time.
And they all claim to bescience-based and they all
conflict.
And that's as simple as it isas to why it's confusing,
because you you hear me talkabout a range of, say, 0.7 to 1
(02:11):
gram per pound.
And I pretty much stick to thateven to this day.
We'll get into that.
But I've seen much highernumbers, 1.2 to 1.4 in some
cases, when you hear the youknow, protein modified fast
community or the rapid fat loss,or the, you know, if you're an
athlete, you really need a lotmore.
I've seen a lot recommendedbecause you're a lot older or
you're a woman, so you need alot more due to inefficiency.
(02:33):
I've heard round numbers like,hey, you know, big dudes that
are trying to lift, you gottaget at least three or four
hundred grams of protein, right?
And then on the other end, youhave people coming out and
saying, you know what, the morewe see the research, the more we
realize that the threshold isactually much less.
And there's some truth to thatas well.
And then there's somewhere inbetween where people are arguing
(02:55):
that you have to get down to isit about your ideal body
weight, your current bodyweight, your lean body mass?
Like, how do we calculate allthis?
And that's another point ofconfusion.
And then there's the debateabout how much do you eat per
meal?
Can you absorb more than acertain amount of protein at
once?
You know, 30 grams, 40 grams.
You've heard about the 100 gramstudy where they looked at 100
grams, and that seemed to befine in terms of muscle protein
(03:17):
synthesis, and maybe it'ssuperior.
And do you need proteinfrequently throughout the day,
or can you have it just once ortwice?
So I think a lot of this comesfrom every time a study comes
out, we like moths to a flame,gravitate toward what it says
and give it a lot of importance.
And then when the next studycomes out, we like to use it to
say, oh, look, that thing waswrong.
Here's the other thing, and itcreates a nice hot take.
(03:39):
There's also supplementcompanies involved here, and you
know, who knows what to believewhen it comes to that.
I'm not the type to say, well,just because it's funded by a
company means the research isflawed.
But I also am not surprised ifif you're trying to sell whey
protein that you want people toeat as much whey protein as
possible.
Now, the good news is we have alot of information on this.
We have meta analyses whichpool together hundreds of
(04:02):
studies and data acrossdifferent populations and
trading statuses, ages.
And that's the other thing istraining status, right?
Are we talking about people wholift and perform and athletes
and those of us who listen tothis show want to build muscle,
or are we talking about thegeneral sedentary population?
And sometimes it actuallydoesn't matter.
Believe it or not, sometimesthere is a minimum, no matter
what, that you're going to needto, for example, hold on to what
(04:23):
little muscle you might have,even if you're not building it.
But if you're listening to witsand weights, you care about
building and maintaining muscleas effectively as you can.
So let's go to the nextsection, which is the number
that everyone wants to knowtotal daily protein.
For most people, liftingweights and trying to build or
maintain muscle, the researchconsistently supports a range of
(04:44):
about 0.7 to one grams ofprotein per pound of body
weight.
That's it.
Super simple.
Don't get hung up in, you know,is it 0.7 or 0.8?
Is it target body weight, idealbody weight, lean mass?
Just don't get hung up in thatbecause the 0.701, first of all,
it's a big range and your bodyweight's going to be changing.
(05:04):
And secondly, it's itsimplifies it so it's practical
and is more than enough to getthe job done.
By the way, in metric, that's1.6 to 2.2 grams per kilogram.
So if you weigh 150 pounds, itgives you a nice wide range of
about 105 to 150 grams.
If you weigh 175, that's 120 to175.
If you're a 200-pound person,so a lot of you guys out there,
(05:24):
my height, who are like 5'9,5'10, are kind of in that range,
you know, 180, 200, 220 in thatrange.
Then you're talking 140 to 200,right?
Not 300 grams of protein.
Now, some of you have heardthat you need way more than
that.
And somehow, and there's goodhot, there's a lot of hot takes
today.
We're like, well, I'm hearingall this stuff about lower
protein ranges, but really, youknow, serious lifters and
(05:46):
athletes and guys who want toget big just need a ton, a lot
more than that, right?
You see this with the bigjacked influencers, like you
need at least 250 grams.
You need 300 grams.
So can you eat more protein?
Sure.
Will it hurt you?
Probably not.
Okay.
However, if it starts todisplace other important macros
and nutrients and foods andmakes it harder to be practical,
(06:08):
that itself is a hugeconsideration when we think of
adherence and the benefits offats and carbs as well and other
nutrients.
Will having that much moreprotein lead to more muscle
growth?
No, and that's the point, islike you don't need it.
But if you like more proteinand that's a great way to eat
for you, and you're gettingenough of everything else, it's
fine.
So the protein's kind of aninteresting one in that there is
(06:30):
a minimum you want to hit onaverage, but there's not really
a maximum, but you also don'tneed a lot more than a certain
amount.
And there are plenty ofmeta-analyses on these that show
a plateauing of lean mass gainsstarting at around that 0.7
grams per pound.
Now you're thinking, oh, 0.7, Ithought you said 0.721.
(06:51):
Well, that's the point.
0.71 starts to get diminishingreturns, but still a worthwhile
set of returns for most peopleif you're lifting weights.
And then it really starts todrop off at one.
Now, there are corner caseslike rapid fat loss where you're
not eating very much and you'retrying to hold as much muscle
as possible.
There are cases to be made forgoing above one gram per pound,
(07:13):
right?
So, in a fat loss phase ingeneral, we know that higher
protein preserves muscle masswhile in a deficit.
So I'm perfectly okay saying,you know what, going up to 1.2
grams per pound might be aworthwhile experiment for you.
It's worth trying that.
Now, it's going to be hard todo because your fats and carbs
are limited by the caloriesremaining and the carbs really
(07:36):
take a hit.
So for some people, theyactually feel less energetic
because of the fewer carbs.
And for others, it helps thembecause of, for example,
satiety, and they do see higherlean mass retention.
If you're older, over 50, over40, even, slightly higher
protein can probably overcomesome of your anabolic
resistance.
That actually is a thing whereyour body has a reduced
(07:57):
sensitivity to the musclebuilding signals, and you're
giving yourself an extra littleadvantage because you're just
not as efficient.
If you're a competitiveathlete, you're training at very
high volumes.
Again, you might benefit fromthe upper end.
These are the tails of thecurve, right?
When we talk about a normalcurve in a study, these are the
tails, the extreme ends of thecurve.
And I don't talk in extremeshere on this show.
(08:18):
I try to give a decent targetfor most people.
And then if you've gotten thereconsistently as a foundation,
well, now you're ready to pushinto other levels.
Don't try to jump all the way.
I doubt you're a competitiveathlete if you're not already
getting enough of thefoundational protein, right?
And I'll say most people whothink that they're under-eating
(08:39):
protein, they are able to getwhere they need to be once they
start tracking, trackingaccurately.
That's really it.
And you can track in a numberof ways.
You can track using a foodlogging app like Macrofactor or
MyFitness Power, whatever.
You can also do it justmanually.
You could do it by quantitiesand portions.
If you are eating, let's sayfour meals a day, or let's say
three meals plus a snack a day,and every single one of those
(09:00):
has a decent amount of protein.
You know, like a third of theplate is some sort of lean
protein, animal product, dairy,like yogurt, cottage cheese.
If you're eating plant-basedprotein, you're gonna need more
quantities to get that, right?
Like an oatmeal or a quinoa orsomething like that.
Obviously, protein shakes, youknow pretty much exactly what
you're getting.
Then you, then you know whereyou're at and you know where you
(09:21):
need to be.
And that's really the firststep for many of us, just to
have that awareness.
Again, even if it's just visualquantities and portions.
And I think people eating a lotof protein who just love to eat
a ton of meat.
I know ranchers who just getunlimited cow, you know, meat,
and they're up in 200, 250, andthey may not be aware how much
they're eating.
(09:42):
Same idea.
It's like, hey, now we canbalance it down and give us some
rooms, more room for a littlebit of those fats, but
especially the carbs.
The carbs, I know thisepisode's about protein, but
they all work together.
And to me, not having enoughcarbs can be its own major
detriment for a lifter,especially in say fat loss when
the calories are tight, but alsoeven when muscle building, if
(10:04):
you're jacking that protein upso high, and let's say you're
eating 3,000 calories, guys, andyet you're only getting 120
grams of carbs, that's a hugemissed opportunity to jack that
up to 300 grams of carbs by justdropping some of that
unnecessarily high protein.
All right.
And that's just a fact.
I've seen it happen.
I've talked to plenty oflifters, really good coaches in
(10:24):
the space, and they all agreelike you don't need that much
protein.
So 0.7 to 1 grams per poundstill stands as a really great
range.
All right, next, let's talkabout distribu distribution
throughout the day, because thishas evolved as well.
The per meal protein, I think,does matter, and it maybe it
(10:44):
matters even more than peoplethink, but not the way that you
think it matters.
So there are still claims thatyou can only absorb so much
protein at once, you know, andyou'll hear numbers like 30
grams.
And that's complete nonsense.
Your body doesn't waste proteinafter some arbitrary threshold.
If you eat a hundred grams ofprotein in one meal, your body
(11:07):
is still going to use it andstill stimulate muscle protein
synthesis over a longer periodafter that meal because you have
so much protein.
So it doesn't magicallydisappear.
You don't have to worry aboutthat.
But spreading protein acrossmultiple meals has lots of other
benefits that are worthexploring.
Okay, this is where the nuancecomes come in and the the
details.
(11:28):
So we know that every time youeat a protein-rich meal, you do
spike muscle protein synthesis,and the signal peaks a few hours
after eating and then graduallycome back comes back down.
So if you eat proteinfrequently enough throughout the
day, you're creating multiplepeaks.
Whereas if you eat most of yourprotein in one or two massive
(11:51):
meals, you get fewer peaks.
But the difference betweenthose two extremes isn't as big
as we used to think.
That's that's the thing I wantto say is that I still believe
the evidence tells us there's aslight advantage to having
multiple meals from thatperspective, spreading
throughout the day for muscleprotein synthesis, but it is
small enough that practicalconsiderations to me are more
(12:13):
important, like your digestion,eating balanced meals, those
other things.
So I I wanted to mention that,yeah, there might be a slight
advantage, but also there'sthings that offset it.
There's trade-offs.
And I would say if you had topick a range just for
practicality and evendistribution, for most people,
that's gonna be like 25 to 45grams of protein.
Like you don't want to havejust five grams of protein in a
(12:36):
meal unless you're you're justsaying, look, I'm not even
thinking of having protein inthis meal.
I'm having this meal because ofcarbs, or it's a post-meal
workout without protein,whatever, something like that.
But for the most part, ifyou're going to deliberately
have protein, you know, aim tohave some substantial amount,
20, 25, 30 grams in there.
And then the upper limitdoesn't really matter, right?
(12:56):
It all depends on your size andyour age and how much you're
trying to eat a day.
Us a petite female trying toeat 100 grams a day, you know,
has a little more flexibility onthat versus a man trying to get
200 grams a day, you know.
So if you're like a 200-poundlifter, then if you're gonna
have three to five meals, you dothe math, you're gonna need
(13:17):
like 30 to 40 five grams permeal on average.
Keeping in mind that yourdinner might have 70 grams,
which lowers than the averagesfor the rest of the meals.
But if you're only like 150pounds, then that comes down to
say 25 to 30 grams per meal.
Now, the minimum is anotherpoint of conversation here, that
25 grams.
(13:37):
There's still evidence thatshows us leucine, leucine is one
of the essential amino acidsand one of the most important
ones that triggers muscleprotein synthesis, that you need
two and a half to three gramsof leucine per meal to maximize
the signal.
Again, it's a matter ofdegrees.
It's not like a all or nothing.
But again, just to be smart andpractical about it and then
(14:00):
stop thinking about it afterthat, it getting a minimum of,
say, 25 total grams per mealincludes roughly that two and a
half to three grams of leucine,assuming it's mostly
high-quality protein sourcesthat have the leucine.
Remember, protein has essentialamino acids, but they don't
always have all of them.
Animal products do.
Most plant products don't.
(14:20):
They have to be combined, withsome exceptions.
I think quinoa might have themall.
It's definitely not a dealbreaker if you have a diverse
diet.
If you're vegan or vegetarian,it just makes a little harder.
You have to be a little moreintentional.
That's really all it is.
We don't want to fear monger onthis stuff.
So, eggs, dairy, beef, poultry,of course, whey protein is
probably the highest quality,which is why I'm not against
(14:42):
using whey as a little bit ofsupplementation in your diet.
And they will give you thatroughly 10% of the protein as
leucine, which means at least 25grams gets you at least two and
a half grams of leucine.
Does that make sense?
So, again, plant proteins,you'd need more than that to hit
the threshold.
And so combining plant proteinsand eating more high bigger
(15:04):
portions of those is gonna workreally well.
And you just have to watch outfor the carbs and fats that come
along for the ride.
Right?
There are protein powders thatare vegan, though, like pea and
rice blend that will give you asimilar advantage as whey.
So, in practice, if you'reeating, let's say three meals a
day, just have protein in everymeal.
I mean, that's really thesolution.
I prefer you have justbalanced, balanced meals and
(15:27):
feedings.
I get that you might want tohave an afternoon snack with a
couple of cups of berries, let'ssay.
Okay, fine.
I'm talking about ones thathave substantive calories, make
them balanced.
And so let's say you have tohit 180 grams a day of protein,
like I do, that's 60 grams permeal if I'm eating three meals.
Now, I tend to eat four, if notfive times a day, depending on
(15:48):
the phase.
So I only need, say, 40 to 50.
Now, if I have a really bigprotein shake that right there,
that's 60 grams of protein, allright.
Well, that covers a good chunkof the protein right there.
So just do the math.
Avoid a pattern where you'relike 10 grams at breakfast, 10,
20 grams at lunch, and then 130grams at dinner, because you're
also gonna have issues withdigestion, practicality, meal
(16:11):
planning, whatnot.
But if it's a natural part ofyour pattern and it works for
you, what matters is the totalprotein.
Most of all, I just wanted toaddress the distribution and
timing anyway.
Now, we're talking ofoptimization here.
There is one thing that I wantto mention real quick, give a
shout out to our sponsor, CozyEarth, because when we talk
(16:32):
about training, nutrition,protein, everything we do here
when it comes to strengthtraining and fat loss and muscle
building depends on recovery.
And we know that the foundationof recovery is sleep.
And I am a huge fan of CozyEarth's bamboo-derived sheets.
I have a set of my own.
I'm getting another because itactually annoys me when we have
to wash them and I have to goback to the regular sheets.
(16:52):
So because I really love these.
They're super comfortable,they're temperature regulating,
they wick away heat andmoisture.
I run hot at night.
Lots of you guys might do that.
Now that it's winter and it'scold, it actually still feels
amazingly temperatureregulating.
So it seems to be able tohandle whatever the actual
temperature is in the room tokeep you comfortable and calm.
(17:13):
And this could be a gamechanger for you because that is
part of getting restful sleep,you know, deep in REM sleep.
I also like that the companygives a hundred-night sleep
trial.
That's a long time to try themout and return them for your
money back.
They give a 10-year warranty.
You can test them for likethree months and return them
hassle-free.
(17:34):
Think about you spend a thirdof your life in bed.
That's 2,500 hours a year.
You're investing in your gymmembership and your training and
potentially your coaching, yournutrition.
But what about those eighthours a day?
Are you optimizing those aswell?
So go to wits and work wits andweights.com slash cozy earth
and use code wits and weightsfor 20% off.
(17:56):
Again, the bamboo derived sheetset, that's my favorite.
They do have lots of otherproducts.
Just go to wits and weights.comslash cozy earth and use my
code wits and weights for 20%off.
All right, so let's get back toprotein.
And we talked about totalprotein, we talked about
distribution.
Now let's talk about timingbecause I see a lot of anxiety
(18:16):
from people who are asking mequestions about protein.
And some of it has to do withlike, do I need to have protein
right after my workout?
When do I have protein, etc.?
So the anabolic window, this issomething that used to be
talked about a lot more.
I hear less and less of it.
It is a theoretical window,like 15, 30 minutes after
(18:36):
training, where you must consumeprotein or you're gonna lose
all your gains.
I want to be clear.
It's almost nonsense.
I'm gonna say it that way.
It's an exaggeration, asignificant exaggeration.
Because yes, there is a periodafter training where your
muscles are primed to respond toprotein, but it's several
hours, sometimes even longerthan that, depending on when you
(18:59):
ate before training.
And total daily protein intakeis what still matters absolutely
the most, more than thedistribution or the timing.
But all of these things arepart of your experiment.
They're part of, hey, if you'renot doing this, try it and see
if it makes a difference foryou.
So if you train early in themorning, let's say 6 a.m.
(19:20):
and you train fasted, but youeat at seven or eight, that's
fine.
I mean, you you'll get used totraining fasted.
For most people, I find theyactually do better when they eat
before they train, but noteverybody.
Some people are cool with this.
If you train at noon and youeat lunch at one or two, again,
that's fine.
If you train in the evening andthen you eat dinner within a
couple hours, it's fine.
(19:41):
Like that's it.
Don't overthink it.
The only scenario where I thinkpost-workout timing becomes
really important is thatscenario I just mentioned where
you train, you train fasted andyou haven't had protein in like
many, many, many hours.
You actually will probably feelbetter if you have some protein
a little bit sooner, but itdoesn't have to be 30 minutes.
I mean, within an hour or two,I'm just saying don't wait hours
(20:03):
and hours and hours and hoursbecause that could give you a
suboptimal result in terms ofyour gym time, which is we're
trying to maximize that.
I think what matters more thanpost-workout timing is
consistent protein intakethroughout the day.
Oh, sound familiar.
It's the last thing we talkedabout.
(20:47):
And there's research thatcompares like front loading your
protein versus evenlydistributing.
And again, the evendistribution shows slightly
better protein synthesis, but itshouldn't override the
practicality of it that we'vealready discussed.
So that's really all I have tosay is just if you train fasted,
(21:07):
eat within a couple hours.
If you've eaten protein beforeyour workout, like I most I
recommend to a lot of people abanana and a whey protein, you
know, whey protein at least halfan hour before you work out as
a minimum.
Because that way you get somefast digesting, easy on your
stomach protein and carbs.
And the banana is pretty lowfiber and it has electrolytes.
(21:28):
That's just one thought.
Okay.
Try that out.
Then when you work out, yeah,you've got many hours before you
have to eat after that.
Most of us are gonna feelgreat, though, having some
protein and carbs within an houror two, anyway, to kind of
refill that glycogen.
But it's not like you're gonnaimmediately train again.
So it's cool.
It's cool, guys.
Okay.
All right.
Now let's move to where yourprotein comes from and protein
(21:50):
quality, because this is yetanother area that is highly
fear-mongered on social media.
Protein quality.
And usually it's people tryingto sell you something that is,
in their mind, in opinion,higher quality.
And this could be a supplementcompany that says, oh, we have
clean ingredients.
And I get it.
Look, if you if you formulatedsomething that you're really
(22:11):
proud of, people find itdelicious and it makes their
body feel good.
And they had trouble with otherproducts that had things like
additives, dyes, artificialsweeteners, sugar alcohols,
blah, blah, blah.
And that's a selling point foryou.
I understand that.
This is capitalism, as long asyou're not lying, right?
As long as you, you know, I getit.
But oftentimes they stretch thetruth a bit by suggesting that
(22:35):
the other product is so farinferior because it doesn't have
the same level of quality andtherefore it can't help you with
building muscle.
Look, pretty much protein isprotein, and I say it that way
in the sense that the samesource of protein.
Like if two protein bars havewhey protein, it's still whey
protein, despite all the otheringredients around it, right?
They're two different issueswe're talking about.
(22:56):
And I would say what makessomething high quality in this
context is just two things.
Does it have the complete aminoacid profile?
So that would be ananimal-based protein or a
combination of plant-basedproteins like pea and rice.
And does it have reasonableleucine content, which is solved
by what we just said?
So they go hand in hand, right?
Animal proteins, eggs, dairy,beef, poultry, fish, whey, they
(23:18):
check the boxes easily.
And plant proteins can totallybuild muscle, but many
individual sources are a littlebit lower in one or more of
these essential amino acids.
But it's a simple solution,just combine them throughout the
day.
And if you're if you are avegetarian or vegan, I would
hope that you have a thus have avery diverse diet.
Now, I've known what I calldessert vegetarians who don't
(23:40):
even eat vegetables and eat alot of like processed foods.
I'm not talking to thosepeople.
That that's a problem foromnivores and vegans and
vegetarians, right?
So I'm talking about if you eatwhole foods, you have a diverse
diet, you have enough foods inthere to cover all your bases.
For people who don't eat meator animal products, that's rice
and beans, soy and grains, peasand hemp, more total protein
(24:03):
from plant sources tocompensate, things like that.
It's not a big deal.
I would so if you're vegan orvegetarian, in other words, I
would go back to my first topictoday and shoot more for the
higher grams per pound just tocover your bases.
And also if you're over 40,when it comes to protein
quality, again, is it moreimportant?
It's only important from asense of are you able to absorb
(24:24):
enough of what you need?
And so I always like pushing ita little bit higher, just a
little bit, you know, more onthat 1.0 rather than the 0.7.
If you want to push to 1.1,1.2, perfectly fine.
Perfectly fine.
Okay.
This is more optimization, notmake or break.
If you're in that range, you'regood.
Okay, the next topic is whendoes more protein become
(24:44):
counterproductive?
I alluded to this already, butI had a special topic on this
because the idea is, okay, well,if protein is good, more
protein is better, and even moreis even better.
Up to a point that's true.
Past that point, you're gonnamake your diet just less
balanced and you're gonna makeit less practical.
And maybe it's gonna be moreexpensive too, because usually
(25:06):
it costs more to have moreprotein in your diet.
And so now you're displacingother nutrients, other macros,
potentially wasting your money.
And we mentioned how muscleprotein synthesis plateaus
around it starts plateauing at0.7 grams per pound, and then
going beyond one offers minimaladditional benefit.
So the point of revisiting thistopic is simply if you want
(25:27):
enough carbs for energy to keepyour stress low, to help with
your hormones, to help buildmuscle, to help preserve muscle,
if you want enough fat forhormone support, for taste, you
know, for having a deliciousdiet, then that's gonna be the
offset to having so much proteinin your diet.
And I've definitely had clientswho are big protein eaters and
(25:48):
it was almost, you know,challenging their philosophy of
existence to ask them to droptheir protein a bit.
But if you're listening andyou're in that camp, the way I
suggest doing it is actually afairly, how do I put this?
A fairly meaningful switch asan experiment.
Meaning if you eat 250 grams ofprotein, drop it by like 40
(26:11):
grams a day, you know, to like210 or even 200, and give all of
that to carbs.
Because remember, protein andcarbs are the same energy
density, whereas fat has higherenergy density.
So you can basically swap onefor the other.
So if you drop 50 grams ofprotein, you can increase 50
grams of carbs.
See what that does for yourbiofeedback, for your hunger,
(26:33):
your digestion, your energy andsleep, how you perform in the
gym, all of those things andsee, because you might be
surprised.
You might be like, whoa, I wasactually missing carbs all this
time.
And I'm reassured that I don'teven need that much protein.
So this is my new balance.
Pretty cool.
So just a quick recap (26:49):
take your body weight, multiply by
0.7, that's your minimum, andthat's in pounds, guys, right?
Or 1.6 if you're doingkilograms, and that's your
minimum.
And then you can kind of go upfrom there based on preference
and balance.
And push toward the higher endif you're a little bit older,
push toward the higher end ifyou're definitely into
(27:10):
performance and athleticism andlifting.
Push a little higher if you'rein fat loss.
Definitely push higher ifyou're in a very aggressive fat
loss phase.
Stop stressing about thewindow, just eat within a couple
hours after working out.
Spread throughout the daybecause it's pretty much pretty
practical and you will maximizemuscle protein synthesis, but
you don't have to have it atevery meal.
You don't have to spread itout.
It just tends to be morepractical.
(27:32):
Focus on quality, and qualityis simply diversity of your
foods and enough of it.
That's it.
Pretty simple.
So before we wrap up, I do havea few, I'll say myths or
mistakes people make that Iwanted to address based on your
questions and comments to meover the past few years.
So the first one is saving allyour protein for dinner.
If you're eating low-proteinbreakfast and lunch and trying
(27:54):
to have all this at dinner, I'mnot saying it's bad to do that.
What I'm saying is you end upgetting stressed because this is
where I hear somebody say, Ihaven't hit my protein, but I'm
almost at my calories.
What do I do?
Should I try to hit my proteinand go over my calories?
Or should I stay here and hitmy calories?
And I'm like, okay, the problemhere isn't the answer to that
question.
The problem is that you gotthere in the first place.
(28:15):
I don't really care about theanswer to that question.
I mean, usually I'll say, justhit your calories and be done
with the day and take the lossand the next day preload your
protein better.
That's all.
You know, spread it out.
That's that's why you do that,because we don't want to try to
get 100 grams at dinner.
The next thing is that, youknow, people dismiss plant
proteins or it's really anafterthought.
(28:37):
And we're finding more and morepotential benefits to just
having more plants in your dietin general.
So, you know, not just fiber,but you know, polyphenols and
compounds, vitamins, nutrients,so many reasons to have plants
in your diet, you might as wellbias that toward
protein-containing plants.
And so it behooves you to learna little bit about which foods
(28:59):
contain more protein than otherfoods.
Like oats and quinoa come tomind as having more, you know,
various uh grains, uh pastaproducts, cereal grains, are
crazy high in protein as well,right?
Like just bread.
People are surprised how muchprotein is in bread if you have
a sandwich.
Obviously, you get the carbsalong for the ride.
People are like, well, that'sprocessed foods.
Look, it's a matter of degrees,okay?
(29:19):
We talked about the anabolicwindow, so I'm not gonna hammer
that home again.
We talked about thinking moreis always better.
Okay, the next one I have isyou know, ignoring overall
calories, right?
It's not just about protein.
Yes, I think if you're notpaying attention to anything
right now and you start addingin protein to every meal because
you're under-eating, that's agreat first step.
(29:39):
Then I would add protein inevery meal as well.
I mean, uh fiber in every meal.
So once you got protein andfiber added to each meal, take
this additive approach.
You start to get in thesereally good foods for you on
your plate.
It starts to displace otherthings.
But then at that point, youstill might be overconsuming.
Now, maybe you'reunderconsuming too, different
issue.
The point is there is an aspectof energy intake that has to
(30:01):
be, you have to pay attentionto.
The good thing about protein isit's the most filling macro.
It also burns the most caloriesbeing digested.
So a lot of people when theyadd protein in, especially when
they double or triple becausethey were far under consuming,
they find that their hungersignals regulate better and they
eat less, they eat fewercalories after all, even though
they're eating more caloriesfrom protein, if that makes
(30:23):
sense.
So, just all together, if youstart your day with protein.
Your breakfast in a meaningfulamount.
That's where a lot of peopledon't even have that.
That's your action for today islook at your breakfast.
If you don't have at least 25grams of protein, how can you
change that?
And that's kind of the momentumbuilder or the catalyst to get
you going.
So the last thing I'm going toclose with here is really about
(30:43):
meal planning in general,because hitting your protein
targets consistently is aboutstructuring day to day what you
should eat.
And that's all it is.
So I have something called theMeal Planning Advisor GPT.
It's a chat GPT, GPT that Icreated and I've trained it.
It's inside PhysiqueUniversity.
So anybody who's in there getsaccess to it.
(31:05):
If you're not in PhysiqueUniversity, what are you waiting
for?
Join us, witsandwaits.com/slashphysique.
Use my special code for podcastlisteners.
It's FreePlan.
And you can get the custom thefree custom nutrition plan as
well.
But once you're in there, thisis one of the many tools we give
you.
And what I love about this toolis I've trained it with our
philosophy of flexible eating,with lots of stuff from my brain
(31:27):
and from what the science hastaught me that's super flexible
and practical.
So it's essentially aconversational way to say, okay,
where do I start?
I know I need to get moreprotein.
Here are my macros, or here'swhat I'm trying to do, here's
what I like and don't like, andit will prompt you for things
like that.
And here's your meal plan.
Like here's what you here's apotential meal plan.
(31:47):
And then you tell it what youlike to eat, how much time you
have, what your goals are, andit generates that for you,
whether it's a single meal, thea daily meal plan, the weekly
meal plan.
It could give you a grocerylist, all that fun stuff.
This is one of the aspects ofAI that I really love because
it's information.
I think information should befree.
Now I'm telling you to join apaid program to get access to
(32:09):
this.
This is a GPT that I spent timeand effort training, and I want
to give that value to ourclients and members.
That's one of the reasons theyjoin us.
Obviously, you can go to AI anddo this stuff yourself, but the
Meal Planning Advisor GPTcurates it all for you ahead of
time.
It's trained ahead of time, soit'll give you what I'll call
the right answer instead of youhaving to chase down and play
(32:30):
around with it.
And of course, in physiqueuniversity, you get all the
tools, support, trainingtemplates, community support
needed, and courses to help youlose fat and build muscle and
get to your goal in a much moreefficient way.
Go to wittowace.com slashphysique.
Use my code FREEPLAN to getthat custom nutrition plan.
And I hope that answered allyour questions about the big
(32:51):
things in protein.
If I didn't add answer aquestion you have about protein,
it's probably because itdoesn't matter.
And I don't mean that to be ajerk.
I mean that to take it off yourmind, take it off your chest,
and not even not even worryabout it.
But if you do have questions,you know how to reach me.
Until next time, keep usingyour wits, lifting those
weights.
And remember that your body iscapable of incredible things,
(33:12):
but it needs the right fuel, theright type of fuel, the right
stimulus over time.
One of those is protein.
This is Philip Pape, and I'lltalk to you next time here on
the Wits and Weights podcast.
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