December 8, 2025 • 39 mins
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--
If your fat loss strategy involves eating "perfectly clean" and you find yourself swinging between strict dieting and weekend blow-outs, you're stuck in the perfection trap.
Discover why chasing 100% compliance is sabotaging your fat loss progress, how the 20% "eat anything" rule creates sustainable flexibility while still driving body composition changes, and why this middle ground beats both extremes of all-junk and all-clean eating.
Learn the psychology and physics behind why rigid dieting fails, how to define your 80-20 split in practical terms (daily vs weekly), and the crucial guardrails that keep flexibility from becoming chaos.
This evidence-based approach to nutrition helps you lose fat, build muscle, and maintain strength without guilt, restriction, or the all-or-nothing mindset that derails most people during fat loss phases, especially around the holidays!
Episode Resources:
- Join the 3-Week Strong Finish Challenge - Kickoff today, starts Wed Dec 10: http://live.witsandweights.com/
- Try my AI coaching app Fitness Lab for personalized nutrition tracking and coaching. Special 20% off link for podcast listeners.
Timestamps:
0:00 - Why you're struggling to lose fat
2:50 - A more flexible (and sustainable) approach
6:30 - What to include in your 20% flexible eating
10:38 - Why this works for fat loss (psychology and physics)
16:26 - The 3-Week Strong Finish Challenge
21:35 - Guardrails for flexible eating (protein, calories, intent, etc.)
27:48 - How to apply to fat loss, maintenance, and muscle building phases
32:37 - Travel, holidays, and weekends
36:24 - 4 common mistakes to avoid with flexible nutrition
40:44 - Identity, mindset, and next steps
📱 Get Fitness Lab - Philip’s science-based AI app for fat loss, muscle building, and strength training for people over 40. It adapts to your nutrition, recovery, and training to improve body composition without guesswork.
🎓 Try Physique University - Evidence-based nutrition coaching and strength training to help you lose fat, build muscle, and master your metabolism with support and accountability (free custom nutrition plan with code FREEPLAN).
👥 Join our Facebook community - Free fat loss, muscle building, and body recomposition strategies for adults over 40 who want practical, science-backed fitness guidance.
👋 Ask a question or find Philip Pape on Instagram
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Philip Pape (00:01):
If your fat loss strategy involves eating quote
unquote perfectly clean, and youfind yourself swinging between
strict dieting and blowing it onthe weekends, this episode is
for you.
Today I'm gonna show you whyrigidity is sabotaging your fat
loss, how the 20% eat anythingrule actually gives you
sustainable flexibility whilestill hitting your body
(00:24):
composition goals, and why thismiddle ground beats both
extremes of all junk and allclean eating.
I'm your host, certifiednutrition coach, and the founder
(00:51):
of Fitness Lab, Philip Pape.
And today we're tacklingsomething that I see as one of
the biggest derailers of fatloss phases, and that is the all
or nothing approach to eating.
It's a pattern that comes up inall of us, and even if you know
that flexibility is the way togo, there's always a pressure
toward trying to be cleaner oreating higher quality food, you
(01:15):
know, avoiding what we mightthink of as junk or bad food.
And when you do that, youinevitably slip up.
You feel like you've thenruined your plan, and then
things start to fall apart,especially this time of year
around the holidays.
Or maybe you've seen the it ifit fits a macro, if it fits your
macros crowd, right?
Who eat the Pop Tarts andpizzas and donuts, and they're
(01:37):
like, you could just eatanything and lose fat and live
that way, and it's great.
And you're like, that can't beright either, can it?
And so the 20% eat anythingrule, the idea of 80-20 from a
whole foods to anything goesperspective, still stands up as
a really good practical middleground that works quite well for
(01:58):
those of us who live real life,who are busy, who we still want
the results, we still want tolose fat to build muscle, we
still want to have a life.
And it connects directly to ourphilosophy here, this physique
engineering we like to call it,where we use evidence-based,
flexible strategies that arebacked by research to make sure
the whole process issustainable.
(02:20):
And sustainable just means youcan sustain it for months,
years, or potentially the restof your life.
That's what we want to do.
And I see so many comments onthe YouTube videos and in
Spotify about clean eating andwell, I cut out all this stuff.
I cut out all sugar and allthis, all carbs, whatever, and I
feel great, and that's the wayto go.
(02:40):
And usually my first reply isdo you enjoy that?
And is that working for youlong time?
Long time.
Is that working for you longterm?
Right.
And that's what sustainabilityis.
So I'm gonna give you a quickpreview of what we're gonna
cover today.
The first thing is why chasingthis is a problem.
Okay, what psychologically andbased on this the evidence, what
(03:01):
it what it prevents or what itholds us back from.
Secondly, what the 20% ruletruly means, right?
If you want to put it intopractice daily and weekly, what
it looks like.
And then third, are theguardrails that you need so this
doesn't turn into afree-for-all, a binge restrict,
emotional eating, cheat days,all the things that I see this
(03:22):
devolve into often.
And then I'm of course going toend up with troubleshooting
when things aren't working tokeep it really practical.
So let's start with the whybehind this.
Why is this concept of eatingclean or perfect eating or all
high-quality foods killing yourprogress?
Because I do still see onsocial media even some people I
respect who kind of lean towardthis as if any junk food at all
(03:47):
is somehow a problem or opensthe door to everything falling
apart.
And I think it's the opposite.
I want to start with a hardtruth.
If you're trying to eatperfectly, you are absolutely
setting yourself up for failure.
Maybe 1% of people can do this,maybe with a lot of quote
unquote discipline andwillpower.
And even them, I wonder ifthey're completely miserable
doing it.
That's a separate issue.
(04:08):
But I've definitely worked withhundreds of clients at this
point, thousands of peoplethrough listening to the podcast
and telling me their stories.
And I see this pattern all thetime.
So anecdotally, it's there, butin the evidence we see the
difference between rigid andflexible dieting presents this
as well.
And that usually looks likethis: you want to lose fat, so
you have all the motivation inthe world.
(04:29):
And then you decide I'm gonnado it by cutting something out.
It's always a either a quickfix magic pill approach, or
these are the foods I can eat,these are the foods I can't,
right?
And for many people, that's nosugar, no more sugar, no more
alcohol, no more eating out,clean eating only, the word
clean.
And for a week or two, maybethree, maybe four, you know, you
(04:51):
crush it, you do it, you stickto it.
But then that one Friday nightrolls around, or the holiday, or
there's a work event, or afamily dinner, or just a long,
stressful week, or, or, or youhave a drink and some
appetizers.
And in your mind, you failed,right?
You're already like, ooh, thedoor is opening now to, you
know, blowing this thing, and Imight as well keep going, at
(05:13):
least for this dinner, and thenI'll start again tomorrow.
Now, I'm all for startingtomorrow, but I'm not for
sabotaging yourself now becauseyou're thinking ahead to, well,
I can start tomorrow.
And so, what was one drink orone appetizer or one snack or
one piece of candy or onewhatever think thing you think
is, you know, a bad choicebecomes an entire weekend of
(05:34):
eating without any structurebecause you've already set in
your mind that you didn't followwhat you intended to do.
And so why continue, at leastfor now?
And then by the end of theweekend, you've undone most of
the week's deficit if you'retrying to mean a calorie
deficit.
And this is what happens verycommonly.
This is the perfection trap,right?
The belief you have to be 100%compliant or adherent, or you
(05:57):
failed, and it creates a falsedichotomy.
It creates a binary, binarythinking that doesn't actually
exist in reality, because yourbody doesn't care about perfect
days, right?
Like it doesn't care that theentire day you ate quote unquote
clean.
It just cares about the overallinputs over time, the
accumulation of it, the compoundinterest, let's say, your
(06:19):
energy balance, your protein,your training stimulus, all of
the little behaviors that add upover time, even when they're
not perfect.
They're far better than zeros,they're far different than what
you would have done in the pastas a sedentary non-athletic
individual.
And this is where the 20% rulecomes in.
And honestly, 20%, an 80-20philosophy can apply to a lot of
things in life.
We've talked about the 80-20rule for the Pareto principle,
(06:42):
where 20% of the effort produces80% of the results.
We see this ratio a lot inreality.
And whether it's 20% or 15% or25, that's not the point.
The point is instead of chasing100% of something and then
inevitably falling short, right?
You build flexibility into thesystem from the start.
And therefore, you're neverreally breaking a rule, are you?
(07:04):
When you have dessert, when youhave that ice cream, when you
have that slice of pizza.
You are using the flexibilityyou planned for.
You have a buffer, you'reoperating within that already.
And so that connects back towhat I've talked about on the
show regarding like all junkversus all clean eating, right?
Both extremes fail.
The all-junk approach, whereyou just eat whatever you want
(07:28):
and track your macro, track yourmacros and calories, while
technically possible for weightloss, for energy balance, it
tends to leave you starving, lowenergy, nutritionally depleted,
not feeling great, not greatdigestion, et cetera.
Whereas the all clean approachthat leads to rigidity, stress
during social situations, andeventually you just blow up or
(07:50):
blow out, right?
And so the middle ground is tobuild in some of that.
If you want to use the wordjunk, 20% junk, 80% clean, fine,
but I wouldn't even use thelabels.
I would say the whole thingtogether, the idea of 80% whole
foods and 20% other, which we'regonna get into next, is itself
a healthy approach ornutritional pattern, dietary
(08:15):
pattern, right?
It's not about the individualfoods.
So let's move on to what the20% rule means specifically.
Let's define it clearly.
It means that roughly 80% ofyour weekly intake, this is
calories if you want to turn itinto numbers, comes mostly from
nutrient-dense, higher protein,we'll say minimally processed
(08:38):
foods, generally things you getin the produce aisle or the meat
department or the dairydepartment, right the edge of
the grocery store, that supportssatiety, that's keeping you
full, supports your performance,like lifting and you feeling
great, your biofeedback, and ofcourse your body composition at
the same time.
The remaining 20% can be foodsyou enjoy simply because, now
here's a shocking concept (09:02):
you enjoy them.
That's it.
As long as your total caloriesand protein targets are still
met.
So I don't like pigeonholingthat 20% into your macros per
se.
I want to make sure that youare on track to hit your
calories, macros, micros, allthose things with the 80% so
that the 20% truly has maximumflexibility.
(09:26):
Now, let me be very directabout what this is not.
It is not 20% of the time goingcompletely off the rails.
It is not an excuse to ignoreenergy balance.
So it's not like you're saying,well, 20% of my week in terms
of, I don't know, time or numberof meals, I'm just gonna go
hoggle out and eat thousands andthousands and thousands of
(09:46):
calories.
No, it's it's 20% roughly ofthe calories for your week are
taken up by this flexibleframework that still respects
the hierarchy, right?
Still calories first, proteinsecond, food quality third,
timing and preference fourth,and not always in that order,
(10:08):
right?
So think of it like a systemwith built-in margin.
When we design systems, we didwe don't build them to handle
exactly the expected load,right?
We don't design a bridge tohandle just the expected amount
of traffic.
We build in safety factors forreal world conditions.
So the 20% is your margin oferror for being a human with a
(10:31):
social life, stress, cravings,everything else that comes with
it.
Now let's turn it into numbers.
So let's say you're in a fatloss phase eating 1800 calories.
All right, and you can justscale this up or down depending
on who you are.
80% of 1800 is 1440 caloriescoming from nutrient-dense
staples.
Lean proteins, vegetables,fruits, whole grains, fat, you
(10:53):
know, fats from whole foods.
The remaining 360 calories,that's your 20%.
Now, 360, this is in a givenday.
That's not nothing.
That's still a decent amount ofcalories to allocate.
And, you know, whether youdrink alcohol or not, that's
part of the calories.
Maybe it's a small dessert,maybe it's a slice or two of
(11:14):
pizza, a couple slices of pizzacould fit in there, alongside,
you know, your lean foods,whatever.
And you can think about thiseither daily or weekly,
depending on your personalityand your schedule.
If you're veryroutine-oriented, I think daily
80-20 works great.
You know that each day you'vegot that buffer.
And then if your life is alittle bit more variable, if you
(11:36):
tend to shift calories around,if you have a lot more
challenges on the weekends,let's say, if you have social
events that are clustered on theweekends, like many, then
thinking weekly could make moresense, where you hit the 80%
mainly during the weekdays.
And then the 20% is more on theweekends.
And that works for a lot ofpeople.
(11:57):
And again, I want to think ofcheat days here.
Cheat days are like unfettered,nonstop, zero control.
This still has a sense ofcontrol to it and planning and
intention.
Now, here's what belongs in the80% versus the 20%, just to
give you specifics.
The 80% is gonna be lean meats,eggs, Greek yogurt, cottage
cheese, whey, heck, tofu, ifyou're you know vegan or you
(12:19):
like tofu, and that's where youget protein.
Your fiber and micronutrientsources like vegetables, fruits,
legumes, whole grains, yourfats like olive oil, avocado,
nuts, fattier cuts of meat, allthe foods that keep you full,
that support your training, thathelp with the hormones and
digestion, that make hittingyour targets practical in terms
of your macros, your calories,all of those things.
(12:40):
That's the 80%.
It's still a lot of delicious,amazing foods.
And for many of us who start toeat that way, we almost don't
feel we need the 20% as muchbecause of the 80% tasting so
good.
The 20%, however, that would beice cream, pizza, burgers,
fries.
And again, there's there's somewiggle room here.
Like when I say burger, I meana little bit more on the greasy
(13:03):
spoon fast food side, right?
If you're making your ownburger at home, it could still
fit into the 80%, depending onwhat's in there, right?
How processed it is, etc.
So French fries, candy,chocolate, chips, pastries,
maybe alcohol for some people.
Again, I discourage alcohol asmuch as possible because we know
it has no benefits, but it'spart of many people's lives.
(13:24):
And so I put it in thiscategory.
Uh, restaurant meals that aremore indulgent.
And I say it that way becausesome restaurant food or meals,
you know, still may fit in your80%.
So whatever you actually enjoyeating that doesn't fit the
nutrient-dense category, the keyis to fit these into your
framework, and that's calories,macros, micros.
(13:45):
You're not adding them on top,you're just keeping room or
space for them.
So I hope that helps define the80-20.
(14:18):
Now, I want to get to the nextsection on how why this works so
well, why psychologically andphysiologically this actually
works just fine.
And you've got to stoplistening to the extremists out
there who are like, nope, I cutsugar, that's gonna solve it.
Nope, diabetes is caused by toomuch red meat.
I don't know.
Nonsense claims that you hearonline all the time.
Just insane claims that areeither you know patently
(14:42):
incorrect or they are inferringfrom something and interpreting
the research incorrectly.
So, does this actually work forlosing body fat?
Absolutely, absolutely.
I mean, if look, if eating justPop-Tarts can lose for work for
losing body fat, even thoughit's not at all optimal for many
other reasons, then we knowanything less extreme than that
(15:03):
can also work.
And when we talk about fatloss, we're not just talking
about energy balance.
We're also talking about theprocess of going through that
deficit over several weeks ormonths.
And can you do thatsuccessfully mentally,
physiologically, andpractically?
And so the answer is yes, AD20works, and it usually, in fact,
(15:24):
almost always works better thana more restrictive approach in
either direction.
And here's why.
First, energy balance is at theend of the chain what drives
fat loss, not how clean or highquality or quote unquote good
your food is.
The type of food actuallydoesn't matter just for pure fat
loss.
(15:45):
Okay, you can eat the cleanestdiet in the world.
And if you're in a surplus,you're gonna gain fat.
You can gain fat eating toomuch of anything.
You can include less thanoptimal foods, and if you're in
deficit and you have enoughprotein, remember, protein's
still important here, you'regonna lose fat and preserve
muscle.
That's the physics of it.
Calories always determinewhether you lose weight, whereas
(16:05):
protein and lifting determinewhether you keep the muscle
while losing fat so that youchange your body composition.
So that's that's a simple thingto understand.
But second, and maybe most moreimportantly, is the
psychological sustainability.
And that's as, if not mostimportant as the precision of
your diet.
In fact, I'm coming to findover the years that if you can
(16:29):
get this part right, it oftentakes care of the first part,
the energy balance, thecalories, the macros.
Believe it or not, you canshift your diet to be
sustainable and feel great.
And then naturally it's a loteasier to hit the calories and
macros.
And so this is something that Iemphasize all the time.
If I'm going to go back topositive psychology, the perma
(16:51):
model, I did a whole episode onthis in the past.
Oh man, what does that standfor?
I'm not gonna go through ithere, but the perma model where
basically positive emotion andenjoyment are part of any plan
that lasts.
And if people say, Oh, you youshouldn't think of food as
enjoyment, right there, you'velost me.
I'm sorry, you've lost me.
(17:11):
If you're, and by enjoyment, itdoesn't mean it, it doesn't
mean hedonism or unfetteredindulgence, right?
There's a difference betweenthat and thinking of food as a
positive aspect of meaning inyour life because we eat food
every day.
We need it to survive and tothrive.
So if your fat loss approachdoesn't include some element of
reward and pleasure, it is notgoing to stick.
(17:33):
That I am unequivocal about.
And the 20% bucket is yourbuilt-in positive emotion lever.
It lowers the guilt, it reducesthe all or nothing thinking,
and it supports your long-termadherence.
Right?
We're not talking about 100%compliance, we're talking about
adhering to what you've set upfor yourself, where if you set
(17:55):
up an 80-20 approach, it's gonnabe a lot easier to adhere to
that and to be quote unquotecompliant to that.
And then the third piece here,so we we, you know, first was
energy balance, second waspsychological sustainability.
The third piece is that thisadherence over time, this
consistency, right?
Not perfection, but justconsistency, is what compounds
(18:16):
into your real body compositionchanges.
A moderate deficit that youstick to for 12 weeks is always
gonna be an aggressive,restrictive diet that you can
only maintain for three or fourweeks before you have inevitably
have that binge episode.
And the 20% rule increases yourprobability of sustaining the
(18:39):
approach.
That increases your probabilityof reaching your goal.
You see how this all tiestogether so nicely.
Now, I want to be clear, thisis not permission to be sloppy.
The 20% still fits within yourstructure.
If you're eating 1800 caloriesfor fat loss and your 20% eat
anything foods push you to 2,500calories regularly, well,
(19:01):
you're not doing the 20% rule,are you?
That 20% has now become abigger percentage of the total
pie because you're justoverconsuming.
You're eating withoutawareness.
The flexibility exists withinthe boundaries, not instead of
them.
Does that make sense?
So it's always like intention,flexibility, and planning, but
the flexibility is built intothe plan.
(19:23):
So speaking of flexibilitywithin structure, I think this
connects perfectly to somethingthat we are kicking off today.
All right, we're kicking it offtoday.
It technically startsWednesday, but we're kicking it
off today.
It's called the three-weekstrong finish challenge.
This is specifically designedto help you make progress, be
(19:43):
focused, maintain your strengthand body composition through the
rest of the year, through theholidays, from this Wednesday
the 10th through the end of theyear, right before New Year,
when everyone else isbacksliding, right?
And it's perfect with thistopic today, because instead of
trying to be perfect during thecraziest time of the year, the
highest chaos time of the year,when everybody else is starting
(20:04):
to gain all their weight and getoff track and everything goes
out the window, we're using whatI call the flex framework.
Talked about it before, notgonna go into it here, but it's
having three different levelsoptimal, minimum, and bailout to
keep you moving forward nomatter what December throws at
you.
Plus, you're gonna get twocoaches that are gonna coach
you.
You're gonna haveaccountability, weekly
(20:26):
check-ins, lots of greatresources, strength training
templates to lose fat and buildmuscle.
All of these things areincluded in this challenge to
end the year.
And the kickoff call is today,Monday, December 8th at 5 p.m.
Eastern.
Now, if you're hearing this toolate for that, the there is a
replay that you will get if youregister anyway.
(20:48):
So we're giving you a coupleday buffer before the challenge
starts.
And heck, even if you'relistening to this Thursday or
Friday this week, you couldstill join because it's a
three-week challenge.
Okay, the kickoff calls today,live.witsandweights.com.
The actual challenge starts uhWednesday, so we're gonna get
you all the resources and answeryour questions to get ready for
that.
You've got two days then tojoin us, grab one of the 50
(21:11):
spots, and watch the replay ifyou can't make the live call.
Live.witsandweights.com.
This challenge is about provingto yourself that you can
maintain and even gain newprogress at the end of the year,
even when life is messy.
And we're not gonna make you doa restricted diet.
We're not gonna make you do afat loss phase if this isn't the
right time, which for mostpeople it's not, with all the
(21:32):
holidays happening.
You're not trying to have threeperfect weeks.
That's the whole point.
We're trying to help you buildthe system to survive the
imperfect conditions.
So go tolive.witsandweights.com to
register for the challenge.
Kickoff is today, Monday,December 8th at 5 p.m.
Eastern.
But if you can't make it, thereplay will be there.
And the actual challenge startsWednesday.
(21:52):
You're gonna have fullaccountability and support in
our community.
It's a private community justfor people who register at
live.wits and weights.com.
Link in the show notes, andyou'll get everything you need
to succeed, including directaccess to coaches, a custom
nutrition plan, strengthtraining templates designed for
this time of year, including ifyou have limited equipment or
(22:13):
are traveling, all of that,live.witsandweig.com.
All right, now that we'vecovered the what and the why,
let's talk about theseguardrails.
Let's talk about this idea ofstructure with flexibility,
because without the guardrails,the 20% can become 40%.
And then you're confused aboutwhy you're not losing fat and
why I just did what Phillip saidand it's not working.
(22:34):
The first guardrail is thatprotein and calories are still
gonna rule the day when it comesto energy balance and holding
on to muscle.
Your 20% flexibility existswithin those targets.
So you'd still have to knowgenerally what calories you're
hitting.
Now, I've mentioned before,even if you're not tracking
calories and protein and you'remaking sure that you are eating
(22:57):
predominantly whole foods thatare high satiety, high
nutrients, you're gonnanaturally be able to hit
calories and protein anyway.
But of course, I'm a big fan oftracking as much data as you
want or need.
So if including the dessertmeans you're over 400 calories
for the day, that's not the 20%rule working for you.
That's just adding extra food.
So let's be clear.
(23:19):
The hierarchy doesn't change.
Okay, we have the energybalance, it is really the first
driver weight loss.
Protein is the driver of bodycomposition, and everything else
supports that.
The second guardrail is this isa starting point.
It's not a law.
I know I've used the word rule,but in this case it's
colloquial.
It's not a law that you have tostick to 20%.
For some people, 10% might bebetter, right?
(23:42):
Because they just love eatingwhole foods and 10% is more than
enough, and that's all theyneed.
For others, they might want tocreep it up a little bit, 25 or
30%.
We're still not talking 50, 60%processed foods like the
average American.
We're still talking far moreshifted in the direction we want
to be.
The principle, remember, whatis the principle?
Is that most of your intake isaligned with your goals, and the
(24:04):
minority of the intake is very,very highly flexible.
And let's be honest, even theintake that's aligned with your
goals, the 80% is still superflexible.
There's a lot of foods thatfall under there.
You're not cutting out any foodgroups or macros, right?
You can still have bread andpasta and other potatoes and
fruits and stuff like that inthere, but that more highly
(24:24):
processed stuff fits into your20%.
You get to choose, really.
And it's an experiment.
You treat it as an experiment,and then you adjust based on the
actual results and how youfeel.
Okay.
And if you're in our challenge,if you're in a three-week
challenge, that's a great placeto test and share with the world
what's happening and getfeedback.
Like, hey, I'm having troublesticking in this 20%.
(24:45):
It's creeping up much higherthan I expected.
What do I do?
And we can give you some greatideas.
The third guardrail is to justdistinguish between this
deliberate flexibility and whatI'll call chaotic eating.
So eat anything within yoursystem means you choose foods
(25:06):
that you enjoy and you accountfor them and you adjust your day
around them accordingly.
So again, there's planning andintention.
Maybe you want a 400-calorieslice of cheesecake at dinner.
So you look at where 50 to 60grams of carbs and 10 to 15
grams of fat come from your dayand make it work, right?
(25:27):
Keep the protein high becausenow obviously the protein's not
going to be in the cheesecake.
Well, it'll be a little bit,but not very much.
And that's how you aredeliberate about it.
So this idea of eating anythingis deliberate and it's not
chaos.
Chaos is when you're nottracking or thinking, you're not
aware, you're using it as anexcuse, etc.
And that's the classic, youknow, I was in a deficit Monday
(25:49):
through Thursday, and I undid iton the weekend.
Pattern that we're trying toavoid.
All right.
The fourth guardrail is if youare someone with a history of
binge eating, emotional eating,very rigid kind of mindset or
dieting, the 20% might needextra structure.
And what this looks like ispre-deciding, pre-planning what
(26:12):
the 20% is.
Maybe it's one dessert per day,right?
A lot of us are in that mode.
I'm often in that mode becausemy wife cooks dinner and we like
to have a little dessert mostdays.
And so I just plan it in.
Maybe it's two indulgent mealseach week, right?
You get to decide what that 20%is.
And then you eat those funfoods mindfully.
(26:33):
You know, you sit down, you eatthem, you portion them out,
whatever makes sense, you putthem in a bowl.
You know, you don't justchaotically graze and say, well,
okay, I'm up to my 20% now.
Where's the bag of Cheetos?
Let me just start eating.
It's not that.
So you can start with a smallerpercentage if it helps you feel
more structured.
If you have a history of this,start with 5% or 10%.
(26:54):
If you're a classic, like cleaneater and you always try to eat
clean, maybe for you mentally,it's better to not jump right to
20% because you might feel likeyou lose control.
Just titrate it up to the rightlevel for you.
And for some people, it mightalways be 5%.
You just love to eat a lot ofWhole Foods.
It's fine.
I know farmers and ranchersthat eat that way.
(27:14):
This connects to what I'vediscussed in other episodes
about hidden triggers andemotional eating.
We want to use data andawareness to diffuse those
triggers.
We won't want to create newtriggers.
And then a quick note forspecial populations like if you
have celiac disease or severefood allergies or medical
(27:35):
conditions that limit foodchoices.
And I've spoken to a lot of youout there who I feel really
bad, right?
Because there's a lot of foodsyou just can't eat.
Your 20% still exists, but it'swithin your safe options.
You're not going to just usethe 20% to say, well, now I'm
going to eat the thing that Idon't usually feel great with,
but it's my 20%.
Well, that by definition,you're not going to enjoy that,
are you?
So the principle of flexibilityremains even when your specific
(27:59):
foods happen to be constrained.
So let's make this allpractical.
Let's tie this up into somepractical guidance for some
different situations, which Iknow people have been asking
about with these podcasts.
So in a fat loss phase, we'regoing to do fat loss maintenance
or body recomp, musclebuilding, and let's say chaos
like travel and holidays comingup.
Okay.
In a fat loss phase, the 20%rule is going to help you stay
(28:22):
on that deficit and not feel asdeprived, right?
Your calories are alreadylower.
So by so math-wise, the 20%portion is still smaller in
absolute terms than when you'renot in fat loss, right?
The actual calories are lessbecause it's still 20% of a
smaller amount of calories.
And that's fine.
It just means that yourflexible foods are going to be a
(28:43):
smaller amount of stuff or asmaller portion of the ice
cream, or you know, it's not apint, but it's a small bowl,
etc.
It's the psychology of knowingthat you can have something you
enjoy that's more valuable oftenthan the actual food itself.
Let's be honest.
Now, you can just quick sidetangent.
You can almost trick yourselfhere by picking something that
(29:06):
you find enjoyable that'sactually not a 20% food, let's
say strawberries with somehomemade whipped cream, and it's
really not that many calories,but it actually psychologically
feels like part of the 20%.
That's a really cool trick touse for yourself as you start to
shift and make swaps,especially in fat loss when the
(29:26):
calories are lower.
Okay.
So you're still kind ofthinking 20%, but some 80%
stuff's leaking over into that20% if it makes sense.
All right.
Now, what about if you're atmaintenance or what if you're
doing body recomp?
Well, you obviously have moreroom to work with because the
calories are a little bithigher.
So your 20% is a little bitmore generous.
And this is a lot of timeswhere people find their
(29:49):
sustainable long-term eatingpattern, kind of that routine
that they can stick with for along time.
They're not restricting for fatloss, right?
They're not keeping thecalories tight.
They're also not pushingcalories and trying to eat extra
for muscle gain.
You're just living your lifewhile maintaining your physique.
This is a nice place to trythis out and see what that is
(30:10):
for you.
Okay, because effectively youshould be able to do it without
tracking eventually and justmaintain your physique that way
and your weights.
Well, it may not be your bodyweight.
Your body weight's gonna flexup and down.
And then during a musclebuilding phase, the 20% helps
with that.
Coherence as well, but in adifferent way.
Because when you're eating morefood in general, it's easier to
(30:33):
hit your protein and then stillhave room for enjoyment.
Right.
Because that's a little bit moreof a challenge in fat loss.
When you're doing the 20%,you're like, but I still need to
make sure I get my protein in.
The challenge during a surplusis making sure the 20% doesn't
creep up just because you havethe calorie budget for it.
I've seen this with, you know,some people struggle to get
enough food, but a lot of peoplewill get enough and they'll
(30:54):
actually start eating more andmore and more and kind of feel
like the there are no moreguardrails because, oh, well, I
need so many calories.
I'm not going to exceed mycalories.
So I'm just going to eat more,you know, chips ahoy cookies and
more ice cream and morePop-Tards and more of these
snacks.
And it ends up being just a lotmore processed food in your
diet than you really want longterm, because it's going to be
hard to back off from that.
(31:15):
And I'm not saying there's notmore room in general for that
stuff.
There is, just numbers-wise.
But you still want 80% of yourintake to support your training,
performance, and recoverybecause you're trying to build
muscle and you're trying topartition those nutrients to the
best place in your body, right?
You're still moving, you'restill building, all of that.
And then the last scenario hereis travel, holidays, just
(31:37):
busyness in general.
And again, as we end the, as weend the year strong here,
joining our challenge is a greatway to test all this out.
But this 8020 really shinesduring this time of the year
because if you think of it as aweek, you know, think of it on a
weekly basis over the rest ofthe year.
(31:59):
You know that you have, forexample, a work dinner on
Thursday and a family event onSaturday.
Well, maybe those two daysbecome your 20% for this week.
And then you have the Christmasholiday here and the New Year's
thing here.
Those are your 20% for thatweek.
Or, you know, Monday throughWednesday, you're at 90%
nutrient dense, and then you'reat like 70% on the weekends,
(32:20):
right?
So as long as it averages outover the seven days.
So what what about how dopeople mess this up?
Because I want to tell youabout four mistakes, actually,
that that um I see a lot.
The first mistake is I'vealluded to this already, but
it's the 20% turning into 40%.
And this usually happens whenyou're not tracking or when
you've jumped into this for thefirst time and kind of not even
(32:43):
sure what 20% is, if that makessense.
You don't even know how manycalories you should be eating.
And then you rationalize a lotof your choices that are you're
not super happy with as part ofthe 20%, and then it ends up
blowing up.
So the fix here is simple.
Just measure.
Just measure.
Okay.
If you're eating 2,000 caloriesa day, that's 400 calories of
foods.
And you don't have to do thisforever.
Like measure for a bit, for afew weeks.
(33:04):
You know, use my app FitnessLab or use MacroFactor or just
do it manually, it doesn'tmatter.
And track everything and seewhere it falls in terms of the
percentage.
Okay.
Is it 20%-ish or are youcreeping much higher than that?
All right.
Mistake number two is using the20% as an emotional coping tool
(33:25):
instead of genuine enjoyment.
And this is why I mentionedpositive psychology earlier.
I think there's a differencebetween meaningful positivity
and enjoyment and hedonisticemotional coping type, where you
say it's enjoyment, but it'snot really.
That is emotional eating that'sdressed up as some sort of
(33:57):
strategy.
Don't let yourself fall for it.
The 20% should be deliberatechoices that you make for
enjoyment, not reactive eatingto numb your feelings.
So if you're if you're ifyou're aware of this pattern, as
I say it out loud, be honestwith yourself that that's what's
happening, because that'llallow you to disconnect the two.
(34:19):
All right, mistake number threeis not adjusting when the data
says that your progress isslower than you're expected.
So, for example, if you'redoing the 20% and you're trying
to lose fat, but your weighttrend is pretty much not
changing, like you're not losingfat, then something's off with
energy balance.
Okay, either your totalcalories are higher than you
(34:41):
think, or your 20% estimate isactually more calorie dense than
you think.
I have seen this interestingphenomenon where it seems like
it's you could be more accuratetracking whole foods than
tracking processed foods.
You would think it's not thecase because of barcodes and
such, but it happens.
It happens for a variety ofreasons, because of extra bites,
because of mislabeledpackaging, and you're you end up
(35:04):
eating a lot, if you're eatinga lot more processed foods, it
tends to throw the error offeven more.
So if it's not working for you,don't blame the 8020.
Look at energy balance andtracking and some of the other
things, right?
Look at the data and figure outwhere that gap is.
All right, and then the lastmistake, number four here, is
using cheat day language.
(35:25):
Please don't do that.
Please don't.
I don't like the word cheat atall because it implies you're
breaking a rule.
Well, with the 20% rule, you'renot cheating.
And again, maybe this is aproblem of even me using the
word rule for this.
You're actually usingflexibility built into your
system.
And I mentioned already itcould be 10%, 15%, 30%.
It's not really a hard and fastrule, is it?
(35:48):
It's just a guideline.
Cheat days, however, come witha different mindset.
It's like a permission mindset.
Like, oh, I have permission todo this, and uh, and then that
leads to excess.
Whereas the 20% rule keeps youin control even with
flexibility.
So if you didn't pick up whatI'm putting down, notice that
(36:10):
this isn't about food.
The 20% rule is not about food,it's about your identity.
It really is.
Because when you follow rigiddiets and rules, which are the
vast majority of diets promotedin the space today, I mean, have
always been, then your identityis I'm someone on a diet.
I am on a diet.
And diets end.
And when you use a flexiblesystem instead, your identity
(36:30):
becomes, I'm someone who knowshow to manage my nutrition, or
something like that.
That's a permanent thing.
Whereas a diet is a temporarything.
The person who can have a sliceof pizza at their kid's
birthday party and log it or atleast be aware of it and plan
for it, and then adjust theirday around it, and then be move
on without any guilt or anxiety.
(36:51):
That person has a verydifferent, fundamentally
different relationship with foodthan the person who skips the
party or eats half the pizzabecause they already blew it, or
even goes to the party anddeliberately withholds from
eating pizza, thinking it interms of a guilty pleasure or
something that they cannot do.
All right.
(37:11):
So that's why we do what we dobuild building systems that work
for real life.
Right.
It's a it's like a pressurevalve.
It keeps the whole thingsustainable because you got a
pressure release valve.
And then when you combine thatwith the right lifestyle,
lifting weights, adequateprotein, moving, getting your
steps, right?
Those basic things that takework and effort, they do,
(37:34):
they're not automatic.
Nobody's gonna do them for you.
And then you track some levelof data that gives you that
awareness.
And then guess what?
You adjust based on that dataand feedback.
That's how you build yes, abody, but also a relationship
with food, with yourself that isgoing to serve you for the rest
of your life.
So here's your action for thisweek.
(37:56):
Just look at your eatingpattern and estimate what
percentage of your intake isgenuinely nutrient dense versus
flexible.
Because if you've been tryingto be 100% clean, then think
about what it would mean tobuild in 20% deliberately that's
maybe not so clean, if I'mgonna use that word, even though
(38:17):
I don't like that word.
And if you've been all over theplace, start tracking, see
where you land, and then adjustfrom there, right?
There are things that are gonnamove the needle that you have
to be aware of calories,protein, food quality,
flexibility, they all worktogether.
And this is exactly again whythe three-week strong finish
challenge is going to happen.
All right, kicking off todaystarts Wednesday.
(38:39):
We are heading into the hardestthree weeks of the year for
most people, trying to at aminimum maintain what they've
got.
And for many, they don't wantto backslide, but most people
do.
And so instead of pretendingthat you can be perfect this
holiday season, we're giving youa system that works when things
are messy and chaotic like theyare.
(39:00):
And you'll get coaching fromhuman beings, you'll get
training programs, customnutrition plan, you get all that
great stuff, along with theaccountability, the ability to
check in and say, hey, how arewe doing?
Are we winning here?
So that we're ready for the newyear.
And no guilt, no shame.
You're gonna feel great aboutyourself, you're gonna have more
energy, be super, superconfident.
(39:21):
So the kickoff is today, 5 p.m.
Eastern.
Challenge starts Wednesday, butdefinitely join at
live.witsandweights.com so youget in in time and get all the
resources and figure out, hey,what strength training program
do I want to follow?
If you're not already followingone, we can give you some
guidance on that.
And by the end of the threeweeks, you're gonna know your
sustainable baseline.
You're gonna know it.
(39:41):
You're not gonna wonder aboutit and think that you have to
white knuckle it in the newyear, because you'll be ready to
go.
Go to live.witsandweights.com,link in the show notes.
Let's finish the year strongwhile everyone else backslides.
Go to live.witsandweights.com.
Until next time, keep usingyour wits, lifting those
weights.
And remember, the best approachis not the strictest one.
(40:01):
It's the one that you cansustain.
This is Philip Tape, and I'lltalk to you next time here on
the Wits and Weights Podcast.
If your fat loss strategy involves eating quote
unquote perfectly clean, and youfind yourself swinging between
strict dieting and blowing it onthe weekends, this episode is
for you.
Today I'm gonna show you whyrigidity is sabotaging your fat
loss, how the 20% eat anythingrule actually gives you
sustainable flexibility whilestill hitting your body
(00:24):
composition goals, and why thismiddle ground beats both
extremes of all junk and allclean eating.
I'm your host, certifiednutrition coach, and the founder
(00:51):
of Fitness Lab, Philip Pape.
And today we're tacklingsomething that I see as one of
the biggest derailers of fatloss phases, and that is the all
or nothing approach to eating.
It's a pattern that comes up inall of us, and even if you know
that flexibility is the way togo, there's always a pressure
toward trying to be cleaner oreating higher quality food, you
(01:15):
know, avoiding what we mightthink of as junk or bad food.
And when you do that, youinevitably slip up.
You feel like you've thenruined your plan, and then
things start to fall apart,especially this time of year
around the holidays.
Or maybe you've seen the it ifit fits a macro, if it fits your
macros crowd, right?
Who eat the Pop Tarts andpizzas and donuts, and they're
(01:37):
like, you could just eatanything and lose fat and live
that way, and it's great.
And you're like, that can't beright either, can it?
And so the 20% eat anythingrule, the idea of 80-20 from a
whole foods to anything goesperspective, still stands up as
a really good practical middleground that works quite well for
(01:58):
those of us who live real life,who are busy, who we still want
the results, we still want tolose fat to build muscle, we
still want to have a life.
And it connects directly to ourphilosophy here, this physique
engineering we like to call it,where we use evidence-based,
flexible strategies that arebacked by research to make sure
the whole process issustainable.
(02:20):
And sustainable just means youcan sustain it for months,
years, or potentially the restof your life.
That's what we want to do.
And I see so many comments onthe YouTube videos and in
Spotify about clean eating andwell, I cut out all this stuff.
I cut out all sugar and allthis, all carbs, whatever, and I
feel great, and that's the wayto go.
(02:40):
And usually my first reply isdo you enjoy that?
And is that working for youlong time?
Long time.
Is that working for you longterm?
Right.
And that's what sustainabilityis.
So I'm gonna give you a quickpreview of what we're gonna
cover today.
The first thing is why chasingthis is a problem.
Okay, what psychologically andbased on this the evidence, what
(03:01):
it what it prevents or what itholds us back from.
Secondly, what the 20% ruletruly means, right?
If you want to put it intopractice daily and weekly, what
it looks like.
And then third, are theguardrails that you need so this
doesn't turn into afree-for-all, a binge restrict,
emotional eating, cheat days,all the things that I see this
(03:22):
devolve into often.
And then I'm of course going toend up with troubleshooting
when things aren't working tokeep it really practical.
So let's start with the whybehind this.
Why is this concept of eatingclean or perfect eating or all
high-quality foods killing yourprogress?
Because I do still see onsocial media even some people I
respect who kind of lean towardthis as if any junk food at all
(03:47):
is somehow a problem or opensthe door to everything falling
apart.
And I think it's the opposite.
I want to start with a hardtruth.
If you're trying to eatperfectly, you are absolutely
setting yourself up for failure.
Maybe 1% of people can do this,maybe with a lot of quote
unquote discipline andwillpower.
And even them, I wonder ifthey're completely miserable
doing it.
That's a separate issue.
(04:08):
But I've definitely worked withhundreds of clients at this
point, thousands of peoplethrough listening to the podcast
and telling me their stories.
And I see this pattern all thetime.
So anecdotally, it's there, butin the evidence we see the
difference between rigid andflexible dieting presents this
as well.
And that usually looks likethis: you want to lose fat, so
you have all the motivation inthe world.
(04:29):
And then you decide I'm gonnado it by cutting something out.
It's always a either a quickfix magic pill approach, or
these are the foods I can eat,these are the foods I can't,
right?
And for many people, that's nosugar, no more sugar, no more
alcohol, no more eating out,clean eating only, the word
clean.
And for a week or two, maybethree, maybe four, you know, you
(04:51):
crush it, you do it, you stickto it.
But then that one Friday nightrolls around, or the holiday, or
there's a work event, or afamily dinner, or just a long,
stressful week, or, or, or youhave a drink and some
appetizers.
And in your mind, you failed,right?
You're already like, ooh, thedoor is opening now to, you
know, blowing this thing, and Imight as well keep going, at
(05:13):
least for this dinner, and thenI'll start again tomorrow.
Now, I'm all for startingtomorrow, but I'm not for
sabotaging yourself now becauseyou're thinking ahead to, well,
I can start tomorrow.
And so, what was one drink orone appetizer or one snack or
one piece of candy or onewhatever think thing you think
is, you know, a bad choicebecomes an entire weekend of
(05:34):
eating without any structurebecause you've already set in
your mind that you didn't followwhat you intended to do.
And so why continue, at leastfor now?
And then by the end of theweekend, you've undone most of
the week's deficit if you'retrying to mean a calorie
deficit.
And this is what happens verycommonly.
This is the perfection trap,right?
The belief you have to be 100%compliant or adherent, or you
(05:57):
failed, and it creates a falsedichotomy.
It creates a binary, binarythinking that doesn't actually
exist in reality, because yourbody doesn't care about perfect
days, right?
Like it doesn't care that theentire day you ate quote unquote
clean.
It just cares about the overallinputs over time, the
accumulation of it, the compoundinterest, let's say, your
(06:19):
energy balance, your protein,your training stimulus, all of
the little behaviors that add upover time, even when they're
not perfect.
They're far better than zeros,they're far different than what
you would have done in the pastas a sedentary non-athletic
individual.
And this is where the 20% rulecomes in.
And honestly, 20%, an 80-20philosophy can apply to a lot of
things in life.
We've talked about the 80-20rule for the Pareto principle,
(06:42):
where 20% of the effort produces80% of the results.
We see this ratio a lot inreality.
And whether it's 20% or 15% or25, that's not the point.
The point is instead of chasing100% of something and then
inevitably falling short, right?
You build flexibility into thesystem from the start.
And therefore, you're neverreally breaking a rule, are you?
(07:04):
When you have dessert, when youhave that ice cream, when you
have that slice of pizza.
You are using the flexibilityyou planned for.
You have a buffer, you'reoperating within that already.
And so that connects back towhat I've talked about on the
show regarding like all junkversus all clean eating, right?
Both extremes fail.
The all-junk approach, whereyou just eat whatever you want
(07:28):
and track your macro, track yourmacros and calories, while
technically possible for weightloss, for energy balance, it
tends to leave you starving, lowenergy, nutritionally depleted,
not feeling great, not greatdigestion, et cetera.
Whereas the all clean approachthat leads to rigidity, stress
during social situations, andeventually you just blow up or
(07:50):
blow out, right?
And so the middle ground is tobuild in some of that.
If you want to use the wordjunk, 20% junk, 80% clean, fine,
but I wouldn't even use thelabels.
I would say the whole thingtogether, the idea of 80% whole
foods and 20% other, which we'regonna get into next, is itself
a healthy approach ornutritional pattern, dietary
(08:15):
pattern, right?
It's not about the individualfoods.
So let's move on to what the20% rule means specifically.
Let's define it clearly.
It means that roughly 80% ofyour weekly intake, this is
calories if you want to turn itinto numbers, comes mostly from
nutrient-dense, higher protein,we'll say minimally processed
(08:38):
foods, generally things you getin the produce aisle or the meat
department or the dairydepartment, right the edge of
the grocery store, that supportssatiety, that's keeping you
full, supports your performance,like lifting and you feeling
great, your biofeedback, and ofcourse your body composition at
the same time.
The remaining 20% can be foodsyou enjoy simply because, now
here's a shocking concept (09:02):
you enjoy them.
That's it.
As long as your total caloriesand protein targets are still
met.
So I don't like pigeonholingthat 20% into your macros per
se.
I want to make sure that youare on track to hit your
calories, macros, micros, allthose things with the 80% so
that the 20% truly has maximumflexibility.
(09:26):
Now, let me be very directabout what this is not.
It is not 20% of the time goingcompletely off the rails.
It is not an excuse to ignoreenergy balance.
So it's not like you're saying,well, 20% of my week in terms
of, I don't know, time or numberof meals, I'm just gonna go
hoggle out and eat thousands andthousands and thousands of
(09:46):
calories.
No, it's it's 20% roughly ofthe calories for your week are
taken up by this flexibleframework that still respects
the hierarchy, right?
Still calories first, proteinsecond, food quality third,
timing and preference fourth,and not always in that order,
(10:08):
right?
So think of it like a systemwith built-in margin.
When we design systems, we didwe don't build them to handle
exactly the expected load,right?
We don't design a bridge tohandle just the expected amount
of traffic.
We build in safety factors forreal world conditions.
So the 20% is your margin oferror for being a human with a
(10:31):
social life, stress, cravings,everything else that comes with
it.
Now let's turn it into numbers.
So let's say you're in a fatloss phase eating 1800 calories.
All right, and you can justscale this up or down depending
on who you are.
80% of 1800 is 1440 caloriescoming from nutrient-dense
staples.
Lean proteins, vegetables,fruits, whole grains, fat, you
(10:53):
know, fats from whole foods.
The remaining 360 calories,that's your 20%.
Now, 360, this is in a givenday.
That's not nothing.
That's still a decent amount ofcalories to allocate.
And, you know, whether youdrink alcohol or not, that's
part of the calories.
Maybe it's a small dessert,maybe it's a slice or two of
(11:14):
pizza, a couple slices of pizzacould fit in there, alongside,
you know, your lean foods,whatever.
And you can think about thiseither daily or weekly,
depending on your personalityand your schedule.
If you're veryroutine-oriented, I think daily
80-20 works great.
You know that each day you'vegot that buffer.
And then if your life is alittle bit more variable, if you
(11:36):
tend to shift calories around,if you have a lot more
challenges on the weekends,let's say, if you have social
events that are clustered on theweekends, like many, then
thinking weekly could make moresense, where you hit the 80%
mainly during the weekdays.
And then the 20% is more on theweekends.
And that works for a lot ofpeople.
(11:57):
And again, I want to think ofcheat days here.
Cheat days are like unfettered,nonstop, zero control.
This still has a sense ofcontrol to it and planning and
intention.
Now, here's what belongs in the80% versus the 20%, just to
give you specifics.
The 80% is gonna be lean meats,eggs, Greek yogurt, cottage
cheese, whey, heck, tofu, ifyou're you know vegan or you
(12:19):
like tofu, and that's where youget protein.
Your fiber and micronutrientsources like vegetables, fruits,
legumes, whole grains, yourfats like olive oil, avocado,
nuts, fattier cuts of meat, allthe foods that keep you full,
that support your training, thathelp with the hormones and
digestion, that make hittingyour targets practical in terms
of your macros, your calories,all of those things.
(12:40):
That's the 80%.
It's still a lot of delicious,amazing foods.
And for many of us who start toeat that way, we almost don't
feel we need the 20% as muchbecause of the 80% tasting so
good.
The 20%, however, that would beice cream, pizza, burgers,
fries.
And again, there's there's somewiggle room here.
Like when I say burger, I meana little bit more on the greasy
(13:03):
spoon fast food side, right?
If you're making your ownburger at home, it could still
fit into the 80%, depending onwhat's in there, right?
How processed it is, etc.
So French fries, candy,chocolate, chips, pastries,
maybe alcohol for some people.
Again, I discourage alcohol asmuch as possible because we know
it has no benefits, but it'spart of many people's lives.
(13:24):
And so I put it in thiscategory.
Uh, restaurant meals that aremore indulgent.
And I say it that way becausesome restaurant food or meals,
you know, still may fit in your80%.
So whatever you actually enjoyeating that doesn't fit the
nutrient-dense category, the keyis to fit these into your
framework, and that's calories,macros, micros.
(13:45):
You're not adding them on top,you're just keeping room or
space for them.
So I hope that helps define the80-20.
(14:18):
Now, I want to get to the nextsection on how why this works so
well, why psychologically andphysiologically this actually
works just fine.
And you've got to stoplistening to the extremists out
there who are like, nope, I cutsugar, that's gonna solve it.
Nope, diabetes is caused by toomuch red meat.
I don't know.
Nonsense claims that you hearonline all the time.
Just insane claims that areeither you know patently
(14:42):
incorrect or they are inferringfrom something and interpreting
the research incorrectly.
So, does this actually work forlosing body fat?
Absolutely, absolutely.
I mean, if look, if eating justPop-Tarts can lose for work for
losing body fat, even thoughit's not at all optimal for many
other reasons, then we knowanything less extreme than that
(15:03):
can also work.
And when we talk about fatloss, we're not just talking
about energy balance.
We're also talking about theprocess of going through that
deficit over several weeks ormonths.
And can you do thatsuccessfully mentally,
physiologically, andpractically?
And so the answer is yes, AD20works, and it usually, in fact,
(15:24):
almost always works better thana more restrictive approach in
either direction.
And here's why.
First, energy balance is at theend of the chain what drives
fat loss, not how clean or highquality or quote unquote good
your food is.
The type of food actuallydoesn't matter just for pure fat
loss.
(15:45):
Okay, you can eat the cleanestdiet in the world.
And if you're in a surplus,you're gonna gain fat.
You can gain fat eating toomuch of anything.
You can include less thanoptimal foods, and if you're in
deficit and you have enoughprotein, remember, protein's
still important here, you'regonna lose fat and preserve
muscle.
That's the physics of it.
Calories always determinewhether you lose weight, whereas
(16:05):
protein and lifting determinewhether you keep the muscle
while losing fat so that youchange your body composition.
So that's that's a simple thingto understand.
But second, and maybe most moreimportantly, is the
psychological sustainability.
And that's as, if not mostimportant as the precision of
your diet.
In fact, I'm coming to findover the years that if you can
(16:29):
get this part right, it oftentakes care of the first part,
the energy balance, thecalories, the macros.
Believe it or not, you canshift your diet to be
sustainable and feel great.
And then naturally it's a loteasier to hit the calories and
macros.
And so this is something that Iemphasize all the time.
If I'm going to go back topositive psychology, the perma
(16:51):
model, I did a whole episode onthis in the past.
Oh man, what does that standfor?
I'm not gonna go through ithere, but the perma model where
basically positive emotion andenjoyment are part of any plan
that lasts.
And if people say, Oh, you youshouldn't think of food as
enjoyment, right there, you'velost me.
I'm sorry, you've lost me.
(17:11):
If you're, and by enjoyment, itdoesn't mean it, it doesn't
mean hedonism or unfetteredindulgence, right?
There's a difference betweenthat and thinking of food as a
positive aspect of meaning inyour life because we eat food
every day.
We need it to survive and tothrive.
So if your fat loss approachdoesn't include some element of
reward and pleasure, it is notgoing to stick.
(17:33):
That I am unequivocal about.
And the 20% bucket is yourbuilt-in positive emotion lever.
It lowers the guilt, it reducesthe all or nothing thinking,
and it supports your long-termadherence.
Right?
We're not talking about 100%compliance, we're talking about
adhering to what you've set upfor yourself, where if you set
(17:55):
up an 80-20 approach, it's gonnabe a lot easier to adhere to
that and to be quote unquotecompliant to that.
And then the third piece here,so we we, you know, first was
energy balance, second waspsychological sustainability.
The third piece is that thisadherence over time, this
consistency, right?
Not perfection, but justconsistency, is what compounds
(18:16):
into your real body compositionchanges.
A moderate deficit that youstick to for 12 weeks is always
gonna be an aggressive,restrictive diet that you can
only maintain for three or fourweeks before you have inevitably
have that binge episode.
And the 20% rule increases yourprobability of sustaining the
(18:39):
approach.
That increases your probabilityof reaching your goal.
You see how this all tiestogether so nicely.
Now, I want to be clear, thisis not permission to be sloppy.
The 20% still fits within yourstructure.
If you're eating 1800 caloriesfor fat loss and your 20% eat
anything foods push you to 2,500calories regularly, well,
(19:01):
you're not doing the 20% rule,are you?
That 20% has now become abigger percentage of the total
pie because you're justoverconsuming.
You're eating withoutawareness.
The flexibility exists withinthe boundaries, not instead of
them.
Does that make sense?
So it's always like intention,flexibility, and planning, but
the flexibility is built intothe plan.
(19:23):
So speaking of flexibilitywithin structure, I think this
connects perfectly to somethingthat we are kicking off today.
All right, we're kicking it offtoday.
It technically startsWednesday, but we're kicking it
off today.
It's called the three-weekstrong finish challenge.
This is specifically designedto help you make progress, be
(19:43):
focused, maintain your strengthand body composition through the
rest of the year, through theholidays, from this Wednesday
the 10th through the end of theyear, right before New Year,
when everyone else isbacksliding, right?
And it's perfect with thistopic today, because instead of
trying to be perfect during thecraziest time of the year, the
highest chaos time of the year,when everybody else is starting
(20:04):
to gain all their weight and getoff track and everything goes
out the window, we're using whatI call the flex framework.
Talked about it before, notgonna go into it here, but it's
having three different levelsoptimal, minimum, and bailout to
keep you moving forward nomatter what December throws at
you.
Plus, you're gonna get twocoaches that are gonna coach
you.
You're gonna haveaccountability, weekly
(20:26):
check-ins, lots of greatresources, strength training
templates to lose fat and buildmuscle.
All of these things areincluded in this challenge to
end the year.
And the kickoff call is today,Monday, December 8th at 5 p.m.
Eastern.
Now, if you're hearing this toolate for that, the there is a
replay that you will get if youregister anyway.
(20:48):
So we're giving you a coupleday buffer before the challenge
starts.
And heck, even if you'relistening to this Thursday or
Friday this week, you couldstill join because it's a
three-week challenge.
Okay, the kickoff calls today,live.witsandweights.com.
The actual challenge starts uhWednesday, so we're gonna get
you all the resources and answeryour questions to get ready for
that.
You've got two days then tojoin us, grab one of the 50
(21:11):
spots, and watch the replay ifyou can't make the live call.
Live.witsandweights.com.
This challenge is about provingto yourself that you can
maintain and even gain newprogress at the end of the year,
even when life is messy.
And we're not gonna make you doa restricted diet.
We're not gonna make you do afat loss phase if this isn't the
right time, which for mostpeople it's not, with all the
(21:32):
holidays happening.
You're not trying to have threeperfect weeks.
That's the whole point.
We're trying to help you buildthe system to survive the
imperfect conditions.
So go tolive.witsandweights.com to
register for the challenge.
Kickoff is today, Monday,December 8th at 5 p.m.
Eastern.
But if you can't make it, thereplay will be there.
And the actual challenge startsWednesday.
(21:52):
You're gonna have fullaccountability and support in
our community.
It's a private community justfor people who register at
live.wits and weights.com.
Link in the show notes, andyou'll get everything you need
to succeed, including directaccess to coaches, a custom
nutrition plan, strengthtraining templates designed for
this time of year, including ifyou have limited equipment or
(22:13):
are traveling, all of that,live.witsandweig.com.
All right, now that we'vecovered the what and the why,
let's talk about theseguardrails.
Let's talk about this idea ofstructure with flexibility,
because without the guardrails,the 20% can become 40%.
And then you're confused aboutwhy you're not losing fat and
why I just did what Phillip saidand it's not working.
(22:34):
The first guardrail is thatprotein and calories are still
gonna rule the day when it comesto energy balance and holding
on to muscle.
Your 20% flexibility existswithin those targets.
So you'd still have to knowgenerally what calories you're
hitting.
Now, I've mentioned before,even if you're not tracking
calories and protein and you'remaking sure that you are eating
(22:57):
predominantly whole foods thatare high satiety, high
nutrients, you're gonnanaturally be able to hit
calories and protein anyway.
But of course, I'm a big fan oftracking as much data as you
want or need.
So if including the dessertmeans you're over 400 calories
for the day, that's not the 20%rule working for you.
That's just adding extra food.
So let's be clear.
(23:19):
The hierarchy doesn't change.
Okay, we have the energybalance, it is really the first
driver weight loss.
Protein is the driver of bodycomposition, and everything else
supports that.
The second guardrail is this isa starting point.
It's not a law.
I know I've used the word rule,but in this case it's
colloquial.
It's not a law that you have tostick to 20%.
For some people, 10% might bebetter, right?
(23:42):
Because they just love eatingwhole foods and 10% is more than
enough, and that's all theyneed.
For others, they might want tocreep it up a little bit, 25 or
30%.
We're still not talking 50, 60%processed foods like the
average American.
We're still talking far moreshifted in the direction we want
to be.
The principle, remember, whatis the principle?
Is that most of your intake isaligned with your goals, and the
(24:04):
minority of the intake is very,very highly flexible.
And let's be honest, even theintake that's aligned with your
goals, the 80% is still superflexible.
There's a lot of foods thatfall under there.
You're not cutting out any foodgroups or macros, right?
You can still have bread andpasta and other potatoes and
fruits and stuff like that inthere, but that more highly
(24:24):
processed stuff fits into your20%.
You get to choose, really.
And it's an experiment.
You treat it as an experiment,and then you adjust based on the
actual results and how youfeel.
Okay.
And if you're in our challenge,if you're in a three-week
challenge, that's a great placeto test and share with the world
what's happening and getfeedback.
Like, hey, I'm having troublesticking in this 20%.
(24:45):
It's creeping up much higherthan I expected.
What do I do?
And we can give you some greatideas.
The third guardrail is to justdistinguish between this
deliberate flexibility and whatI'll call chaotic eating.
So eat anything within yoursystem means you choose foods
(25:06):
that you enjoy and you accountfor them and you adjust your day
around them accordingly.
So again, there's planning andintention.
Maybe you want a 400-calorieslice of cheesecake at dinner.
So you look at where 50 to 60grams of carbs and 10 to 15
grams of fat come from your dayand make it work, right?
(25:27):
Keep the protein high becausenow obviously the protein's not
going to be in the cheesecake.
Well, it'll be a little bit,but not very much.
And that's how you aredeliberate about it.
So this idea of eating anythingis deliberate and it's not
chaos.
Chaos is when you're nottracking or thinking, you're not
aware, you're using it as anexcuse, etc.
And that's the classic, youknow, I was in a deficit Monday
(25:49):
through Thursday, and I undid iton the weekend.
Pattern that we're trying toavoid.
All right.
The fourth guardrail is if youare someone with a history of
binge eating, emotional eating,very rigid kind of mindset or
dieting, the 20% might needextra structure.
And what this looks like ispre-deciding, pre-planning what
(26:12):
the 20% is.
Maybe it's one dessert per day,right?
A lot of us are in that mode.
I'm often in that mode becausemy wife cooks dinner and we like
to have a little dessert mostdays.
And so I just plan it in.
Maybe it's two indulgent mealseach week, right?
You get to decide what that 20%is.
And then you eat those funfoods mindfully.
(26:33):
You know, you sit down, you eatthem, you portion them out,
whatever makes sense, you putthem in a bowl.
You know, you don't justchaotically graze and say, well,
okay, I'm up to my 20% now.
Where's the bag of Cheetos?
Let me just start eating.
It's not that.
So you can start with a smallerpercentage if it helps you feel
more structured.
If you have a history of this,start with 5% or 10%.
(26:54):
If you're a classic, like cleaneater and you always try to eat
clean, maybe for you mentally,it's better to not jump right to
20% because you might feel likeyou lose control.
Just titrate it up to the rightlevel for you.
And for some people, it mightalways be 5%.
You just love to eat a lot ofWhole Foods.
It's fine.
I know farmers and ranchersthat eat that way.
(27:14):
This connects to what I'vediscussed in other episodes
about hidden triggers andemotional eating.
We want to use data andawareness to diffuse those
triggers.
We won't want to create newtriggers.
And then a quick note forspecial populations like if you
have celiac disease or severefood allergies or medical
(27:35):
conditions that limit foodchoices.
And I've spoken to a lot of youout there who I feel really
bad, right?
Because there's a lot of foodsyou just can't eat.
Your 20% still exists, but it'swithin your safe options.
You're not going to just usethe 20% to say, well, now I'm
going to eat the thing that Idon't usually feel great with,
but it's my 20%.
Well, that by definition,you're not going to enjoy that,
are you?
So the principle of flexibilityremains even when your specific
(27:59):
foods happen to be constrained.
So let's make this allpractical.
Let's tie this up into somepractical guidance for some
different situations, which Iknow people have been asking
about with these podcasts.
So in a fat loss phase, we'regoing to do fat loss maintenance
or body recomp, musclebuilding, and let's say chaos
like travel and holidays comingup.
Okay.
In a fat loss phase, the 20%rule is going to help you stay
(28:22):
on that deficit and not feel asdeprived, right?
Your calories are alreadylower.
So by so math-wise, the 20%portion is still smaller in
absolute terms than when you'renot in fat loss, right?
The actual calories are lessbecause it's still 20% of a
smaller amount of calories.
And that's fine.
It just means that yourflexible foods are going to be a
(28:43):
smaller amount of stuff or asmaller portion of the ice
cream, or you know, it's not apint, but it's a small bowl,
etc.
It's the psychology of knowingthat you can have something you
enjoy that's more valuable oftenthan the actual food itself.
Let's be honest.
Now, you can just quick sidetangent.
You can almost trick yourselfhere by picking something that
(29:06):
you find enjoyable that'sactually not a 20% food, let's
say strawberries with somehomemade whipped cream, and it's
really not that many calories,but it actually psychologically
feels like part of the 20%.
That's a really cool trick touse for yourself as you start to
shift and make swaps,especially in fat loss when the
(29:26):
calories are lower.
Okay.
So you're still kind ofthinking 20%, but some 80%
stuff's leaking over into that20% if it makes sense.
All right.
Now, what about if you're atmaintenance or what if you're
doing body recomp?
Well, you obviously have moreroom to work with because the
calories are a little bithigher.
So your 20% is a little bitmore generous.
And this is a lot of timeswhere people find their
(29:49):
sustainable long-term eatingpattern, kind of that routine
that they can stick with for along time.
They're not restricting for fatloss, right?
They're not keeping thecalories tight.
They're also not pushingcalories and trying to eat extra
for muscle gain.
You're just living your lifewhile maintaining your physique.
This is a nice place to trythis out and see what that is
(30:10):
for you.
Okay, because effectively youshould be able to do it without
tracking eventually and justmaintain your physique that way
and your weights.
Well, it may not be your bodyweight.
Your body weight's gonna flexup and down.
And then during a musclebuilding phase, the 20% helps
with that.
Coherence as well, but in adifferent way.
Because when you're eating morefood in general, it's easier to
(30:33):
hit your protein and then stillhave room for enjoyment.
Right.
Because that's a little bit moreof a challenge in fat loss.
When you're doing the 20%,you're like, but I still need to
make sure I get my protein in.
The challenge during a surplusis making sure the 20% doesn't
creep up just because you havethe calorie budget for it.
I've seen this with, you know,some people struggle to get
enough food, but a lot of peoplewill get enough and they'll
(30:54):
actually start eating more andmore and more and kind of feel
like the there are no moreguardrails because, oh, well, I
need so many calories.
I'm not going to exceed mycalories.
So I'm just going to eat more,you know, chips ahoy cookies and
more ice cream and morePop-Tards and more of these
snacks.
And it ends up being just a lotmore processed food in your
diet than you really want longterm, because it's going to be
hard to back off from that.
(31:15):
And I'm not saying there's notmore room in general for that
stuff.
There is, just numbers-wise.
But you still want 80% of yourintake to support your training,
performance, and recoverybecause you're trying to build
muscle and you're trying topartition those nutrients to the
best place in your body, right?
You're still moving, you'restill building, all of that.
And then the last scenario hereis travel, holidays, just
(31:37):
busyness in general.
And again, as we end the, as weend the year strong here,
joining our challenge is a greatway to test all this out.
But this 8020 really shinesduring this time of the year
because if you think of it as aweek, you know, think of it on a
weekly basis over the rest ofthe year.
(31:59):
You know that you have, forexample, a work dinner on
Thursday and a family event onSaturday.
Well, maybe those two daysbecome your 20% for this week.
And then you have the Christmasholiday here and the New Year's
thing here.
Those are your 20% for thatweek.
Or, you know, Monday throughWednesday, you're at 90%
nutrient dense, and then you'reat like 70% on the weekends,
(32:20):
right?
So as long as it averages outover the seven days.
So what what about how dopeople mess this up?
Because I want to tell youabout four mistakes, actually,
that that um I see a lot.
The first mistake is I'vealluded to this already, but
it's the 20% turning into 40%.
And this usually happens whenyou're not tracking or when
you've jumped into this for thefirst time and kind of not even
(32:43):
sure what 20% is, if that makessense.
You don't even know how manycalories you should be eating.
And then you rationalize a lotof your choices that are you're
not super happy with as part ofthe 20%, and then it ends up
blowing up.
So the fix here is simple.
Just measure.
Just measure.
Okay.
If you're eating 2,000 caloriesa day, that's 400 calories of
foods.
And you don't have to do thisforever.
Like measure for a bit, for afew weeks.
(33:04):
You know, use my app FitnessLab or use MacroFactor or just
do it manually, it doesn'tmatter.
And track everything and seewhere it falls in terms of the
percentage.
Okay.
Is it 20%-ish or are youcreeping much higher than that?
All right.
Mistake number two is using the20% as an emotional coping tool
(33:25):
instead of genuine enjoyment.
And this is why I mentionedpositive psychology earlier.
I think there's a differencebetween meaningful positivity
and enjoyment and hedonisticemotional coping type, where you
say it's enjoyment, but it'snot really.
That is emotional eating that'sdressed up as some sort of
(33:57):
strategy.
Don't let yourself fall for it.
The 20% should be deliberatechoices that you make for
enjoyment, not reactive eatingto numb your feelings.
So if you're if you're ifyou're aware of this pattern, as
I say it out loud, be honestwith yourself that that's what's
happening, because that'llallow you to disconnect the two.
(34:19):
All right, mistake number threeis not adjusting when the data
says that your progress isslower than you're expected.
So, for example, if you'redoing the 20% and you're trying
to lose fat, but your weighttrend is pretty much not
changing, like you're not losingfat, then something's off with
energy balance.
Okay, either your totalcalories are higher than you
(34:41):
think, or your 20% estimate isactually more calorie dense than
you think.
I have seen this interestingphenomenon where it seems like
it's you could be more accuratetracking whole foods than
tracking processed foods.
You would think it's not thecase because of barcodes and
such, but it happens.
It happens for a variety ofreasons, because of extra bites,
because of mislabeledpackaging, and you're you end up
(35:04):
eating a lot, if you're eatinga lot more processed foods, it
tends to throw the error offeven more.
So if it's not working for you,don't blame the 8020.
Look at energy balance andtracking and some of the other
things, right?
Look at the data and figure outwhere that gap is.
All right, and then the lastmistake, number four here, is
using cheat day language.
(35:25):
Please don't do that.
Please don't.
I don't like the word cheat atall because it implies you're
breaking a rule.
Well, with the 20% rule, you'renot cheating.
And again, maybe this is aproblem of even me using the
word rule for this.
You're actually usingflexibility built into your
system.
And I mentioned already itcould be 10%, 15%, 30%.
It's not really a hard and fastrule, is it?
(35:48):
It's just a guideline.
Cheat days, however, come witha different mindset.
It's like a permission mindset.
Like, oh, I have permission todo this, and uh, and then that
leads to excess.
Whereas the 20% rule keeps youin control even with
flexibility.
So if you didn't pick up whatI'm putting down, notice that
(36:10):
this isn't about food.
The 20% rule is not about food,it's about your identity.
It really is.
Because when you follow rigiddiets and rules, which are the
vast majority of diets promotedin the space today, I mean, have
always been, then your identityis I'm someone on a diet.
I am on a diet.
And diets end.
And when you use a flexiblesystem instead, your identity
(36:30):
becomes, I'm someone who knowshow to manage my nutrition, or
something like that.
That's a permanent thing.
Whereas a diet is a temporarything.
The person who can have a sliceof pizza at their kid's
birthday party and log it or atleast be aware of it and plan
for it, and then adjust theirday around it, and then be move
on without any guilt or anxiety.
(36:51):
That person has a verydifferent, fundamentally
different relationship with foodthan the person who skips the
party or eats half the pizzabecause they already blew it, or
even goes to the party anddeliberately withholds from
eating pizza, thinking it interms of a guilty pleasure or
something that they cannot do.
All right.
(37:11):
So that's why we do what we dobuild building systems that work
for real life.
Right.
It's a it's like a pressurevalve.
It keeps the whole thingsustainable because you got a
pressure release valve.
And then when you combine thatwith the right lifestyle,
lifting weights, adequateprotein, moving, getting your
steps, right?
Those basic things that takework and effort, they do,
(37:34):
they're not automatic.
Nobody's gonna do them for you.
And then you track some levelof data that gives you that
awareness.
And then guess what?
You adjust based on that dataand feedback.
That's how you build yes, abody, but also a relationship
with food, with yourself that isgoing to serve you for the rest
of your life.
So here's your action for thisweek.
(37:56):
Just look at your eatingpattern and estimate what
percentage of your intake isgenuinely nutrient dense versus
flexible.
Because if you've been tryingto be 100% clean, then think
about what it would mean tobuild in 20% deliberately that's
maybe not so clean, if I'mgonna use that word, even though
(38:17):
I don't like that word.
And if you've been all over theplace, start tracking, see
where you land, and then adjustfrom there, right?
There are things that are gonnamove the needle that you have
to be aware of calories,protein, food quality,
flexibility, they all worktogether.
And this is exactly again whythe three-week strong finish
challenge is going to happen.
All right, kicking off todaystarts Wednesday.
(38:39):
We are heading into the hardestthree weeks of the year for
most people, trying to at aminimum maintain what they've
got.
And for many, they don't wantto backslide, but most people
do.
And so instead of pretendingthat you can be perfect this
holiday season, we're giving youa system that works when things
are messy and chaotic like theyare.
(39:00):
And you'll get coaching fromhuman beings, you'll get
training programs, customnutrition plan, you get all that
great stuff, along with theaccountability, the ability to
check in and say, hey, how arewe doing?
Are we winning here?
So that we're ready for the newyear.
And no guilt, no shame.
You're gonna feel great aboutyourself, you're gonna have more
energy, be super, superconfident.
(39:21):
So the kickoff is today, 5 p.m.
Eastern.
Challenge starts Wednesday, butdefinitely join at
live.witsandweights.com so youget in in time and get all the
resources and figure out, hey,what strength training program
do I want to follow?
If you're not already followingone, we can give you some
guidance on that.
And by the end of the threeweeks, you're gonna know your
sustainable baseline.
You're gonna know it.
(39:41):
You're not gonna wonder aboutit and think that you have to
white knuckle it in the newyear, because you'll be ready to
go.
Go to live.witsandweights.com,link in the show notes.
Let's finish the year strongwhile everyone else backslides.
Go to live.witsandweights.com.
Until next time, keep usingyour wits, lifting those
weights.
And remember, the best approachis not the strictest one.
(40:01):
It's the one that you cansustain.
This is Philip Tape, and I'lltalk to you next time here on
the Wits and Weights Podcast.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com