April 30, 2025 • 27 mins
Book your FREE 15-minute Rapid Nutrition Assessment (not a sales pitch) and have me personally audit your training and nutrition approach or go to witsandweights.com and click "Free Nutrition Audit"
--
Feeling stuck between competing fitness goals? Unsure whether to focus on fat loss, muscle building, or maintenance?
In this episode, I share a real live recording of a 15-minute Rapid Nutrition Assessment with Sam, who wasn't sure which direction to take her fitness journey next despite already establishing solid nutrition and training habits.
Sam has made impressive progress with her nutrition and training habits but struggles with competing goals: wanting to build muscle and improve bone density while maintaining the lean physique she worked hard to achieve.
Having previously reached 14% body fat, she loved how she looked and felt, but found this difficult to maintain long-term. Now at 18%, she's hesitant about entering a building phase that might push her away from her aesthetic comfort zone.
You'll discover why the choice between building muscle and staying lean doesn't have to be binary, and how finding the right balance can transform both your physique and long-term health.
Main Takeaways:
- Why "aggressive maintenance" might be the perfect approach for building muscle without sacrificing leanness
- How to increase training intensity to improve bone density and muscle growth
- The importance of strength-focused training versus hypertrophy for overall health outcomes
- Why adding just 50-100 calories can make a significant difference in your body's ability to build muscle
Timestamps:
0:01 - Why you might be torn between competing fitness goals
4:11 - Bone density, muscle building, and training intensity
12:04 - Choosing between maintenance, fat loss, or muscle gain
15:44 - Why small calorie increases help with building muscle
19:44 - What is true maintenance?
21:51 - Improving bone density
👩💻 Book a FREE 15-Minute Rapid Nutrition Assessment:
https://witsandweights.com/free-call
🎓 Get your first challenge + 2 weeks FREE in Wits & Weights Physique University (WWPU)
👥 Join our Facebook community for live Q&As & support
👋 Let's connect! Ask a question, get my FREE newsletter, or find me on Instagram
📱 Try MacroFactor for free with code WITSANDWEIGHTS
🏋️♀️ Download Boostcamp for free for evidence-based workout programs
🫙 Get 20% off Legion supplements with code WITSpod
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Philip Pape (00:01):
What should you do next?
Build muscle, maintain yourcurrent physique or cut body fat
?
Today's episode will give youclarity, because you're going to
hear a real-time rapidnutrition assessment call with
someone who's made reallyimpressive progress but now
faces that familiar quandarywhat is my next phase?
We are going to talk about anapproach that honors both your
(00:21):
aesthetic goals and long-termhealth, especially bone density.
Approach that honors both youraesthetic goals and long-term
health, especially bone density.
You'll discover why intensityin the gym might matter more
than calories, how to breakthrough training plateaus
without compromising results anddeal with what feels like
competing fitness goals so thatyou can move forward with
confidence.
(00:52):
Welcome to Wits and Weights, theshow that helps you build a
strong, healthy physique usingevidence, engineering and
efficiency.
I'm your host, philip Ape, andtoday we are featuring another
recording from a rapid nutritionassessment call with someone
who is weighing differentoptions for their next fitness
phase.
Now, these are just 15-minutecalls that I offer for free to
help people identify their keyroadblocks, create a plan moving
forward.
(01:12):
It's not a sales pitch.
You can use the link in theshow notes anytime if you want
to schedule one with me, andtoday's conversation with Sam
perfectly captures the strugglethat many of us face wanting to
build muscle for health andstrength while maintaining a
lean physique that we workedhard to achieve.
And what makes this reallyvaluable, I think, is that, sam,
(01:33):
she has already establishedsome solid nutrition and
training habits, yet she stillneeds guidance on an optimal
path forward.
We always need support andguidance at these forks in the
road, no matter how muchknowledge we have, no matter how
much we've been there before.
I have coaches, I have systemsthat help me as well, and I feel
(01:53):
like these calls will give youa way to do that.
So, whether you're currently ina similar position as Sam or
you know, you'll be there oneday.
I think the insights fromtoday's conversation are still
going to help you navigate whatto do next in your fitness
journey with a bit more clarity.
Thanks, sam, for setting this up.
I know you've been listening tothe podcast a while, so you
also have a lot of knowledge andexperience.
(02:15):
You mentioned that you'relooking at counsel on what phase
to go into next.
Right, should you build?
Should you maintain?
Should you do fat loss?
Um, and let's see.
I, it says here, you'veinvested time in nutrition and
fitness coaching with greatresults.
Give credit for being dialed inin the behaviors, to the
behaviors we care most about.
So those would be the bigpillars we talk about a lot and,
(02:37):
um, I can make a case for eachof the three options.
We all can at any given time.
Every day I'm thinking aboutthese three options myself.
I'm like because are you thetype of person who just loves to
push a little bit and kind ofvary things up?
Speaker 2 (03:06):
nerd out on this stuff.
I have really good systems inplace and I frankly do get a
little bored and restless.
So I, like I probably too oftenkind of reconsider the plan,
like, oh, does it need tweaking?
Does it need tweaking?
And a lot of times the answersjust stay the course.
But that's sort of what I wantto talk about is like am I just
being restless and a little, youknow, do I need to just kind of
settle in?
But I do think it's helpful forme to hear what I'm settling
(03:29):
into and kind of for the rightreasons.
Philip Pape (03:32):
So yeah, and you hit the nail on the head by
saying the right reasons,because usually what I come back
to is the front of the loop andthe back of the loop.
The front of the loop is likeenvisioning your future self.
Why are you doing this?
What does it look like?
What are you actually trying toachieve?
Like, what is the real reasonhere, the purpose driving you
other than short-term?
(03:52):
Yeah, I like up a good project,which is also acceptable, and
then and then, um, knowing thatyou've been through this before,
you know there's some level of,I'll say, discomfort, um, in
change.
And so what's going to give youthe most momentum toward that
goal in the next, say, six to 12months?
So how does what resonates withyou there?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
I guess I'm I'm torn because one of your first
questions always is, and oughtto be, like what's your goal,
what are you working towards?
And kind of what's your why forthat goal Right?
Kind of what's your why forthat goal right?
Like fair questions, I thinkI'm torn because I want to build
muscle and I particularly wantto get my bone density score
(04:32):
higher.
I had a recent DEXA scan.
This is very much on my mind, soI know what's needed in order
to do that.
I need to push it in the gymmore, just as some very quick
backstory on gym training.
So I would say for many, manyyears I've always been a very
fit and active person, but formany years, kind of in my
(04:52):
twenties and thirties I'm now inmy late forties, I would say my
RPE during workouts, barcycling, hiking, that kind of
stuff my RPE was always likethree, four.
You know it's kind of mild tomoderate.
I would say the last two tofive years I've gotten much more
comfortable with being in likea five six zone and now I'm
(05:16):
looking, I know I need to movemore into an RPE of like seven,
eight and nine in the gym,particularly around strength
training, if I'm going to movethe needle on building muscle.
So I've recently startedfollowing a program I really
like I don't know if you knowMarcus Philly functional
bodybuilding.
Philip Pape (05:37):
Yeah, I know, I don't know that specific one
Continue.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
He's great.
He's kind of an ex crossfitterwho's really come up with a lot
more kind of sane approach toweightlifting and a lot of
mobility work.
So anyway, I really like hisprogram.
I'm weightlifting currentlyfour times a week, but I know
the direction I need to go inhas a lot to do with increasing
intensity, so, like when itcomes to the muscle building and
(06:02):
the bone density piece, I kindof understand how to do that.
I think the part that feels likemaybe I'm torn about is I also
would like to have um, lowerbody fat than I currently do and
, um, this is the part that Ijust sort of not sure about.
I'm currently sitting at 18%.
(06:24):
Last year I had done a fat lossphase and I got down to 14%.
I felt amazing.
I felt shredded, I felt strong,I liked how I looked in clothes
, I felt confident, and that wasa very hard place to stay.
In the course of a year I've putback on seven pounds, not
(06:45):
through being slovenly or notmoving.
I've been constantly active andtraining, but I do think my
body kind of likes to sit whereit always kind of has and to go
down from there requires acaloric restriction at being in
a calorie deficit, but it comeswith, I think, a pretty good
(07:08):
feeling, and that's where I gettorn.
Okay, you might tell me, inorder to put on muscle, you've
got to go into a build.
And I'm kind of sitting heregoing.
I feel really ambivalent aboutthat because I'm already at the
top end of my weight range.
If I just start kind ofincreasing calories, even in a
slow and steady way, I mightfeel a lot of discomfort with
(07:32):
that, and I so.
Anyway, I've said a lot.
Philip Pape (07:36):
No, you said a lot of great things on a lot of
really good points, so I tooksome notes, cause there's
different things we should coverhere.
Um, let's start strategic.
Let's start strategic.
Let's start high level.
When you talk about discomfortand top of your range and all of
that, it's very personal, right?
I always tell people how do youknow you're ready?
You just know that you're kindof uncomfortable where you are
(07:56):
and you want to go the otherdirection.
Having said that, one questionI always like to ask is besides
a seven pound weight gain, haveyou ever intentionally tried to
build muscle, or even beentraining to build muscle and
slowly gained weight?
Speaker 2 (08:09):
besides that, no, I've never gone into a caloric
surplus, um, I have only everbeen at maintenance and trying
to add muscle or been in adeficit and trying to add muscle
trying to add muscle, or beenin a deficit and trying to add
muscle.
Philip Pape (08:27):
Okay, and you mentioned that when you got
shredded it was hard to maintain, which means your body set
point might float a little bithigher than that, which is
totally normal, especially whenyou're talking 14%, which when I
always subtract 10 to think ofa man, it was like 5%.
It's very lean again, not rightor wrong, but it makes a lot of
sense.
So I would first ask and ruleout or accept in is there a
(08:50):
really driving reason to getshredded?
Speaker 2 (08:52):
right now?
Absolutely no, none of that.
It was just a feeling ofconfidence that I haven't
typically experienced day to day.
I really like how clothes fit.
I liked how I felt naked,frankly, like I just felt
(09:14):
comfortable, strong andconfident.
So, but no, there's no kind ofevent, there's no particular
anything that's significant.
Philip Pape (09:25):
Okay.
So the next thing I want to getto because I want to come back
to the three options maintenance, fat loss, muscle building is
when you talk about trainingintensity.
I like that because sometimeswe feel like we have to bring
out the intensity or, like yousaid, you're not feeling like
you're necessarily training asintensely as you can and you
understand that that's important.
(09:45):
How do you know?
So this is kind of just puttingyou on the spot how do you know
you're training intensely ornot?
Speaker 2 (09:53):
One obvious side effect for me is getting a
little sore at times.
I would say when I've beenweightlifting before exercising,
kind of prior to this year,last year, I didn't experience
soreness kind of ever, and nowI'm trying to feel it a little
bit more the next day as somebiofeedback, like hey, your body
(10:15):
responded to what you didyesterday.
So that's one thing.
I think the other thing is,mentally, when I'm choosing a
weight that I'm doubting can Ido that, that's usually an
indicator that I'm stepping outof my comfort zone.
Philip Pape (10:31):
That's a good one.
No, I like that right, becausesometimes it is about making the
attempt regardless.
So what I think of when you sayyou're doing four days a week
and it's kind of a bodybuildingthing, is um, when I work with a
beginner who's never liftedbefore, for example, we're going
to use like a very simplestrength based program I deal
with barbells if they have it,if not, we can use dumbbells,
(10:51):
and I would I would actually usea program that involves pushing
load and only load and not repsor rep ranges, not even rep
ranges.
Right Sets across like startingstrength, something like that,
only because it basically tricksyou into getting more intense,
like, involuntarily you aregoing to, it's going to get to a
point where the RP is gettingto six, seven, maybe eight or
(11:12):
even nine.
Um, assuming you don't push,you know the load too much from
one session to the next, causethat's one of the variables.
You don't push, you know theload too much from one session
to the next, because that's oneof the variables, and so have
you.
Have you done like a focus tostrength?
Speaker 2 (11:26):
training.
You know, push the numbers typeprogram A little bit.
I wouldn't say program, butlike.
So part of the help and thecoaching that I've gotten over
the course of the past 18 monthswas I worked with a trainer so
that I could feel what it feltlike.
Well, first of all I wanted toget like really good form, but I
also wanted to feel what itfelt like to go somewhere I
hadn't been before with someonewatching, because I was scared.
(11:50):
It brings up a lot of fear in meto go to like seven, eight,
nine.
So not a program per se, butI've, I've done, I've had some
rehearsal with what it feelslike to kind of push and get
uncomfortable.
Philip Pape (12:04):
Okay, and now this segues then into the phases.
Because if you're in a fat lossphase, you know a bodybuilding
style program can be greatbecause it's auto-regulated
right, like you can adjust um,you can be, you can push
intensely, even if your strengthisn't necessarily increasing,
and hold on to muscle.
But that that's.
That's.
The goal is to hold on tomuscle, which it sounds like
(12:25):
you've kind of already gonethrough.
That Um, I'm leaning, like foryou more toward maintenance,
recomp, man, maybe musclebuilding.
I know you came with maybe somepreconceived notions like he's
going to tell me to gain Um, andobviously it I don't.
I'm not going to tell me togain Um, and obviously I don't.
I'm not going to force you todo anything, obviously.
But where, where, where theoptions are, are um maintenance
right?
If, if your body fat is in whatyou think of as a healthy range
(12:48):
and your training isprogressing, um, that could be a
really beneficial place to be,because then you can, I'll say,
chase the numbers in the gym.
You can chase the progressionin the gym as your like metric,
and not worry about body weight,body anything really.
Just, yeah, I take bodymeasurements once a week, things
like that, but you can justfocus on the growth and the
(13:09):
energy and the performancewithout pushing yourself to that
level of, like my clothes don'tfit, discomfort, self doubt,
looking in the mirror and butalso not worried about like,
starving yourself to get to it.
I'm not saying that's what youdid, but there are sacrifices in
both directions.
Um, the pros being that youknow the pros of that approach
being you could potentially gainsome muscle with minimal fat
(13:30):
gain.
It's very flexible for yourlife.
You could just live and enjoythe summer which is coming up
right without feelinguncomfortable in a bathing suit.
Uh, if, if you have theoccasional high stress or other
demanding things in your life,it's, it's great Cause you're
energized, right, yeah, thereally only downside it's going
to be a little slower.
The visual changes are slower.
It requires a little morepatience.
Um, I like to track even moreprecisely in maintenance, just
(13:53):
cause it's, you know, sometimeshard to tell what's going on
without doing that, but it's agreat place to be.
So that's one option.
The other option when we talkabout muscle building is if
you're willing to accept alittle bit of fat gain, knowing
that you can really pack on somemore lean tissue so that later
lean phases you can get, say,shredded at a higher body fat,
(14:14):
with more food, with highercalories, with less impact to
your hormones, less negativebiofeedback.
It's a short-term kind oftrade-off for that, right, where
the benefit that you go afterand you focus on is on chasing
the strength and size, and sizein a good way, right, because I
know some people and women youknow chided that thought of
(14:35):
bulkiness.
You upgrade, upregulate yourmetabolism, you know you
potentially eat more food whichhelps you develop that skill of
doing that in a controlled way.
Uh, the cons, of course.
Now you're going to have alittle more fat there and maybe
psychologically run into someissues.
So, having said all this, isthere a place that you're
leaning toward so far, or do weneed to drill in a little bit
(14:57):
more?
Speaker 2 (14:58):
I guess it's one thing I feel a little bit
uncertain about, and maybe thewhole answer is like I've just
never really pushed to a levelof intensity where the muscle
building is really like aliveand well.
So I think that like that is aplace to really put my focus,
like that is something I cancontrol, is like regardless of
(15:22):
you know, we're really onlytalking about like 50 more
calories a week, if I do themath, kind of the way that I
think you counseled priorclients to do um, which is not
significant at all, but thebigger kind of lever it feels
like right now is okay, reallycommitting to the training yes
and if I did that at maintenance, just to see, like, does that
(15:43):
move the needle at all?
And the hypothesis is that alittle bit more food would be
the variable that would likemove the needle a little bit
more.
Um, I still don't entirelyunderstand why that's the case.
If my protein is really high,which it is right now, and I'm
(16:05):
training intensely, what wouldjust a little bit more food do?
Can maybe you address thatpiece, because that would help
me make sense of the deltabetween maintenance and a little
bit more.
Philip Pape (16:16):
Yeah, I mean, I think of the body as a system
and you've got lots ofmechanisms going on, like just
now sitting there, right, youhave so many mechanisms with
your hormones, um, keeping youalive, with your organs.
Organs actually are very hungry.
People don't realize that, andwhen you're at, let's say,
(16:36):
you're at true maintenanceexactly the maintenance you need
you have everything required tomaintain homeostasis and that's
where your body likes to be.
And so if you go into the gymand you hit it hard, your body,
let's say, has to hit a decisionpoint.
Do I devote some of theresources coming in to build
that muscle by sacrificingstorage of energy, which is like
(16:57):
a survival mechanism, or do Ijust, um, maintain what's there
and it's?
And here's the thing there's alot of debates today about
whether maintenance is reallyall you need.
I think what it comes down tois the experienced folks, the
trainers and lifters out therewho are talking about this.
They really know how to stay onthat aggressive side of
(17:17):
maintenance, which is kind oflike.
You mentioned 50 calories.
To me, that's like almostmaintenance, right, even though
you might be more petite and alighter body weight.
That's why your calories needsand now it can go out and give
you um, the, the amino acids youknow, devoted to structural
(17:44):
build, building of the muscles,and and it's a fine threshold.
Because if you, if you're notquite at that threshold, it's
still like maintenance and thenyour body is just kind of
floating.
And if it's well beyond that,you know, the more you go, the
more you're likely to hit thatmaximum.
But then you keep going andyou're going to gain more fat,
right?
That's why we're trying to findthat spot.
So I don't know if thatexplained it for you.
It's, I guess not wellunderstood as the exact
(18:06):
mechanisms.
Why?
Speaker 2 (18:08):
No, but I kind of think about it almost from like
a resources perspective, thatlike when resources are scarce,
obviously your body is going totry to hold on to it.
When resources are justplentiful enough, you're going
to kind of stay as things are.
But you kind of have to moveinto like a little bit more of
this surplus for your body to beable to release and like to
(18:29):
kind of change its focus somehow.
Philip Pape (18:32):
Yeah, it's a prioritization.
And also because you're leaner,you don't have excess energy and
so your body, like the hormonalsignaling, is even more errors
on the side of homeostasis, ofholding onto that energy.
So it's kind of like a slightdisadvantage that leaner folks
have.
Right, if you were overweightor even just a little bit, had a
(18:52):
little bit of extra fat, yourbody would perceive maintenance
as still potentially a surplusbecause of the extra fat storage
you know it's.
It's all just a net energysystem to think of it that way.
So that's why I do like for yousince you basically laid out
your thoughts uh, an aggressivemaintenance which would be like
a lean gain of like uh, 0.15%body weight a week, let's say
(19:16):
around that range which wouldgain very little scale weight
over a meaningful period.
Like you could do it for six tonine months and you're not
talking about a lot of pounds,right.
But you give your body the bestchance to build.
And what's neat about that too,sam, is even though how do I
put this there's a chance forsome recomp as well while you're
doing that, right, meaningbecause you're in that safety
(19:37):
point.
Your body might then releasesome more fat anyway as part of
that process.
So kind of interesting place tobe.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Yeah, okay, um, and then just last question, in
terms of like knowing I'm reallyat maintenance, I'm looking at
my trend weight and so over thecourse of from Jan one to now,
it has fluctuated within fourpounds.
So some weeks it's up, someweeks it's down.
The weeks it's down it's oftendeliberate, it's not accidental.
(20:05):
I'm like, oh, I didn't like thespike from a couple weeks ago.
Let me kind of pull my caloriesdown a bit.
But within that four poundrange, do we tend to think of
maintenance as a range or do wetend to think of maintenance as,
like within a pound, like avery kind of tidy little unit?
Philip Pape (20:24):
No, the former, yeah, the former.
Um, two or three pounds plus orminus is a good.
You know, the lighter you are,the smaller the absolute number,
but, like for most people, it'slike two to three pounds in
either direction.
So you're talking about like asix pound swing.
So you've been a maintenance.
That's what I would say.
If I saw your purple graph,it'd be like kind of right in
(20:46):
that window, right, yeah, yeah,in which case then, a dedicated
lean gain should see a veryslight drift upward over time.
You know, um, the the what.
So here's an interesting, sinceyou've never done this on
purpose, um, one of thechallenges you might run into is
your metabolism responds upwardand you fall behind and you're
actually no longer in aggressivemaintenance, and so you kind of
have to get it and look at yourexpenditure and see how it's
(21:07):
trending.
If it starts to take off likereally steeply, I would usually
advise getting ahead of that byeating more, you know, just to
kind of avoid a plateau, becausethe plateau is just kind of
wasting time.
If you know, just to kind ofavoid a plateau, cause the
plateau is just kind of wastingtime, if you will, at
maintenance.
Um, and then the training side.
This is really up to you.
But, um, if you've never donelike a super meaningful strength
(21:27):
training focus, I would.
I would bias your programtoward that where you have
either full on main lift focusor a hybrid like what they'd
call power building, which ismain lifts with some
bodybuilding but like focused onthe heavier side, especially
when your concern is bonedensity you know you're saying
versus hypertrophy versus justhypertrophy or just like eight
(21:49):
to 12 rep range type stuff, notto say.
I mean, you probably have heardthe science by now.
There's a lot of flex in all ofthat and you could have a
hypertrophy bias.
In a strength program, forexample, you might have one lift
that's a main lift and you youdo it in like an eight to 12 rep
range but then you'll progressover time to like a lower rep
range as it gets heavier and itbecomes strength, but then it
(22:09):
cycles back to the higher reprange as it gets heavy.
Um, you can do more of a pot,power building, which is like
I'm going to do a main lift,heavy, I'm going to do a support
main lift or developmental lift.
So you might do like a squatand then a sumo deadlift and
then two or three bodybuildingstyle, right.
Or you could do just straight upstrength, where it's like I'm
(22:31):
going to do three or four mainlifts and variants of main lifts
, all compound lifts.
You know I'll do a, I'll do asquat, I'll do a sumo, I'll do
an RDL, maybe one bodybuildingsupport thing and call it a day,
but like they're all prettyheavy, right, how do you?
How do you do?
You have a trainer that'sgiving you a program now, or
what are you following?
Speaker 2 (22:50):
No, I'm.
I bought Marcus program and sofollowing it I move every day of
the week, but I'm weightliftingfour days.
It does tend to be the higherrep range stuff which I was
thinking about more like from anaesthetic perspective, looking
like I lift, which is alwayslike a fantasy, but you're
(23:12):
saying from a bone densityperspective, especially thinking
about going heavier and notbeing as hemmed in by those
higher reps.
Philip Pape (23:20):
Yeah, it's.
It's mainly for that, becauseyour strength and function and
bone density is all I think.
I think that's like prioritynumber one.
Did you listen to my recentepisode, strength versus
hypertrophy?
Yeah, I mean, maybe re-listento that Cause, then you kind of
hear the logic and theprogression of it yeah.
Yeah, re-listen to that,because then you kind of hear
the logic and the progression ofit.
(23:41):
Yeah, yeah, re-listen to thatone.
Um it all works, I'll say, Um,but I like efficiency, you know.
Yeah, yeah, Me too.
If you can get super strong, itcan then translate to having
more confidence and higher liftswith your hypertrophy work Also
.
Doing it that way gives youeven more idea of intensity and
training close to failure.
Yeah, Because when it's fivereps for three sets and you can
(24:05):
only do five reps, you're upthere like RPE eight maybe and
you feel it and you know whatit's like.
But it also won't necessarilymake you sore.
But for the first time you doit right, Because the body
adapts quickly and maybelearning to not necessarily
chase soreness but really chasegrowth is the way to go.
(24:26):
Anyway, I think you have a good.
I think you have a good planaggressive maintenance, um,
strength focus.
Obviously, if you need specificresources, I've got plenty.
I can send you some of ourworkout programs or point you to
some trainers that I like forthat Um.
And then, since you're alreadyusing macro factor, you know how
to set that up.
So I think you're golden.
What?
Speaker 2 (24:44):
do you think I feel great.
I mean, I'm just basicallylistening to your podcasts as
like a little coach in my earand trying to make adjustments,
kind of based on what I'mhearing and learning all the
time.
Um, so I'm going to, I'm goingto try this out and I might come
(25:05):
back to you at some point andjust sort of say I think I'm
ready to do more of a build, butI'd like to kind of partner and
have somebody helping me dothat.
Just cause that every time.
You know it's like the firsttime you do anything.
Sometimes it's helpful to havea coach A hundred percent.
Philip Pape (25:16):
There's so many things.
You don't know.
You don't know.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
That's where I like to put it.
Philip Pape (25:20):
So now you're now you're playing offense, now
you've got some good data to getstarted.
I'm really excited for youbecause it's you've got so much
like potential there.
I just know it, I can feel it.
You have a great attitude and Ithink you're you're committed
and you're going to make ithappen.
So awesome, sam.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Okay, awesome Phil.
Thank you, I so appreciate yourtime.
Philip Pape (25:37):
Thanks so much.
You know how to reach me andhave a great day.
Enjoy your time in New York andwe'll talk soon.
Thank you, sounds good, take iteasy.
All right, and that was myrecording with Sam and if you
found value in that, if you wantyour own personalized guidance,
like Sam received for yoursituation, I invite you to go
ahead and book your own free15-minute rapid nutrition
(25:57):
assessment with me.
Don't be shy, I'm a nice guy,I'll make you feel at ease.
It is not a sales pitch.
Basically, it's us talkingabout the thing holding you back
right now, whether it'snutrition, what to do next, your
training, really anything andgive you some targeted,
actionable steps in a fast-paced15 minutes.
(26:18):
So to schedule it, use the linkin the show notes or go to
witsandweightscom and click thebutton at the top.
Again, no sales pitch, justsome guidance from me to you to
help you achieve your goals moreefficiently.
All right, so as we wrap up, Ithink the most exciting thing
about my conversation with Samand hopefully you got that as
well is just focusing on thefundamentals, the pillars right,
progressive overload, propernutrition, consistency with your
(26:40):
habits.
You're gonna transform yourselfwithout anything radical.
You just need to know adirection and then a consistent
plan to get there, knowing therewill be deviations along the
way, and that's totally okay.
Your metabolism's veryadaptable, you're very adaptable
.
So get on that and alsoschedule your call if you think
it'll be helpful.
Until next time, keep usingyour wits lifting those weights
(27:01):
and remember that the mostpowerful fitness tool it's not
in a supplement, it's not in thelatest YouTube workout program.
It is the intelligentapplication of effort where it
matters most.
I'll talk to you next time hereon the Wits and Weights Podcast
.
What should you do next?
Build muscle, maintain yourcurrent physique or cut body fat
?
Today's episode will give youclarity, because you're going to
hear a real-time rapidnutrition assessment call with
someone who's made reallyimpressive progress but now
faces that familiar quandarywhat is my next phase?
We are going to talk about anapproach that honors both your
(00:21):
aesthetic goals and long-termhealth, especially bone density.
Approach that honors both youraesthetic goals and long-term
health, especially bone density.
You'll discover why intensityin the gym might matter more
than calories, how to breakthrough training plateaus
without compromising results anddeal with what feels like
competing fitness goals so thatyou can move forward with
confidence.
(00:52):
Welcome to Wits and Weights, theshow that helps you build a
strong, healthy physique usingevidence, engineering and
efficiency.
I'm your host, philip Ape, andtoday we are featuring another
recording from a rapid nutritionassessment call with someone
who is weighing differentoptions for their next fitness
phase.
Now, these are just 15-minutecalls that I offer for free to
help people identify their keyroadblocks, create a plan moving
forward.
(01:12):
It's not a sales pitch.
You can use the link in theshow notes anytime if you want
to schedule one with me, andtoday's conversation with Sam
perfectly captures the strugglethat many of us face wanting to
build muscle for health andstrength while maintaining a
lean physique that we workedhard to achieve.
And what makes this reallyvaluable, I think, is that, sam,
(01:33):
she has already establishedsome solid nutrition and
training habits, yet she stillneeds guidance on an optimal
path forward.
We always need support andguidance at these forks in the
road, no matter how muchknowledge we have, no matter how
much we've been there before.
I have coaches, I have systemsthat help me as well, and I feel
(01:53):
like these calls will give youa way to do that.
So, whether you're currently ina similar position as Sam or
you know, you'll be there oneday.
I think the insights fromtoday's conversation are still
going to help you navigate whatto do next in your fitness
journey with a bit more clarity.
Thanks, sam, for setting this up.
I know you've been listening tothe podcast a while, so you
also have a lot of knowledge andexperience.
(02:15):
You mentioned that you'relooking at counsel on what phase
to go into next.
Right, should you build?
Should you maintain?
Should you do fat loss?
Um, and let's see.
I, it says here, you'veinvested time in nutrition and
fitness coaching with greatresults.
Give credit for being dialed inin the behaviors, to the
behaviors we care most about.
So those would be the bigpillars we talk about a lot and,
(02:37):
um, I can make a case for eachof the three options.
We all can at any given time.
Every day I'm thinking aboutthese three options myself.
I'm like because are you thetype of person who just loves to
push a little bit and kind ofvary things up?
Speaker 2 (03:06):
nerd out on this stuff.
I have really good systems inplace and I frankly do get a
little bored and restless.
So I, like I probably too oftenkind of reconsider the plan,
like, oh, does it need tweaking?
Does it need tweaking?
And a lot of times the answersjust stay the course.
But that's sort of what I wantto talk about is like am I just
being restless and a little, youknow, do I need to just kind of
settle in?
But I do think it's helpful forme to hear what I'm settling
(03:29):
into and kind of for the rightreasons.
Philip Pape (03:32):
So yeah, and you hit the nail on the head by
saying the right reasons,because usually what I come back
to is the front of the loop andthe back of the loop.
The front of the loop is likeenvisioning your future self.
Why are you doing this?
What does it look like?
What are you actually trying toachieve?
Like, what is the real reasonhere, the purpose driving you
other than short-term?
(03:52):
Yeah, I like up a good project,which is also acceptable, and
then and then, um, knowing thatyou've been through this before,
you know there's some level of,I'll say, discomfort, um, in
change.
And so what's going to give youthe most momentum toward that
goal in the next, say, six to 12months?
So how does what resonates withyou there?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
I guess I'm I'm torn because one of your first
questions always is, and oughtto be, like what's your goal,
what are you working towards?
And kind of what's your why forthat goal Right?
Kind of what's your why forthat goal right?
Like fair questions, I thinkI'm torn because I want to build
muscle and I particularly wantto get my bone density score
(04:32):
higher.
I had a recent DEXA scan.
This is very much on my mind, soI know what's needed in order
to do that.
I need to push it in the gymmore, just as some very quick
backstory on gym training.
So I would say for many, manyyears I've always been a very
fit and active person, but formany years, kind of in my
(04:52):
twenties and thirties I'm now inmy late forties, I would say my
RPE during workouts, barcycling, hiking, that kind of
stuff my RPE was always likethree, four.
You know it's kind of mild tomoderate.
I would say the last two tofive years I've gotten much more
comfortable with being in likea five six zone and now I'm
(05:16):
looking, I know I need to movemore into an RPE of like seven,
eight and nine in the gym,particularly around strength
training, if I'm going to movethe needle on building muscle.
So I've recently startedfollowing a program I really
like I don't know if you knowMarcus Philly functional
bodybuilding.
Philip Pape (05:37):
Yeah, I know, I don't know that specific one
Continue.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
He's great.
He's kind of an ex crossfitterwho's really come up with a lot
more kind of sane approach toweightlifting and a lot of
mobility work.
So anyway, I really like hisprogram.
I'm weightlifting currentlyfour times a week, but I know
the direction I need to go inhas a lot to do with increasing
intensity, so, like when itcomes to the muscle building and
(06:02):
the bone density piece, I kindof understand how to do that.
I think the part that feels likemaybe I'm torn about is I also
would like to have um, lowerbody fat than I currently do and
, um, this is the part that Ijust sort of not sure about.
I'm currently sitting at 18%.
(06:24):
Last year I had done a fat lossphase and I got down to 14%.
I felt amazing.
I felt shredded, I felt strong,I liked how I looked in clothes
, I felt confident, and that wasa very hard place to stay.
In the course of a year I've putback on seven pounds, not
(06:45):
through being slovenly or notmoving.
I've been constantly active andtraining, but I do think my
body kind of likes to sit whereit always kind of has and to go
down from there requires acaloric restriction at being in
a calorie deficit, but it comeswith, I think, a pretty good
(07:08):
feeling, and that's where I gettorn.
Okay, you might tell me, inorder to put on muscle, you've
got to go into a build.
And I'm kind of sitting heregoing.
I feel really ambivalent aboutthat because I'm already at the
top end of my weight range.
If I just start kind ofincreasing calories, even in a
slow and steady way, I mightfeel a lot of discomfort with
(07:32):
that, and I so.
Anyway, I've said a lot.
Philip Pape (07:36):
No, you said a lot of great things on a lot of
really good points, so I tooksome notes, cause there's
different things we should coverhere.
Um, let's start strategic.
Let's start strategic.
Let's start high level.
When you talk about discomfortand top of your range and all of
that, it's very personal, right?
I always tell people how do youknow you're ready?
You just know that you're kindof uncomfortable where you are
(07:56):
and you want to go the otherdirection.
Having said that, one questionI always like to ask is besides
a seven pound weight gain, haveyou ever intentionally tried to
build muscle, or even beentraining to build muscle and
slowly gained weight?
Speaker 2 (08:09):
besides that, no, I've never gone into a caloric
surplus, um, I have only everbeen at maintenance and trying
to add muscle or been in adeficit and trying to add muscle
trying to add muscle, or beenin a deficit and trying to add
muscle.
Philip Pape (08:27):
Okay, and you mentioned that when you got
shredded it was hard to maintain, which means your body set
point might float a little bithigher than that, which is
totally normal, especially whenyou're talking 14%, which when I
always subtract 10 to think ofa man, it was like 5%.
It's very lean again, not rightor wrong, but it makes a lot of
sense.
So I would first ask and ruleout or accept in is there a
(08:50):
really driving reason to getshredded?
Speaker 2 (08:52):
right now?
Absolutely no, none of that.
It was just a feeling ofconfidence that I haven't
typically experienced day to day.
I really like how clothes fit.
I liked how I felt naked,frankly, like I just felt
(09:14):
comfortable, strong andconfident.
So, but no, there's no kind ofevent, there's no particular
anything that's significant.
Philip Pape (09:25):
Okay.
So the next thing I want to getto because I want to come back
to the three options maintenance, fat loss, muscle building is
when you talk about trainingintensity.
I like that because sometimeswe feel like we have to bring
out the intensity or, like yousaid, you're not feeling like
you're necessarily training asintensely as you can and you
understand that that's important.
(09:45):
How do you know?
So this is kind of just puttingyou on the spot how do you know
you're training intensely ornot?
Speaker 2 (09:53):
One obvious side effect for me is getting a
little sore at times.
I would say when I've beenweightlifting before exercising,
kind of prior to this year,last year, I didn't experience
soreness kind of ever, and nowI'm trying to feel it a little
bit more the next day as somebiofeedback, like hey, your body
(10:15):
responded to what you didyesterday.
So that's one thing.
I think the other thing is,mentally, when I'm choosing a
weight that I'm doubting can Ido that, that's usually an
indicator that I'm stepping outof my comfort zone.
Philip Pape (10:31):
That's a good one.
No, I like that right, becausesometimes it is about making the
attempt regardless.
So what I think of when you sayyou're doing four days a week
and it's kind of a bodybuildingthing, is um, when I work with a
beginner who's never liftedbefore, for example, we're going
to use like a very simplestrength based program I deal
with barbells if they have it,if not, we can use dumbbells,
(10:51):
and I would I would actually usea program that involves pushing
load and only load and not repsor rep ranges, not even rep
ranges.
Right Sets across like startingstrength, something like that,
only because it basically tricksyou into getting more intense,
like, involuntarily you aregoing to, it's going to get to a
point where the RP is gettingto six, seven, maybe eight or
(11:12):
even nine.
Um, assuming you don't push,you know the load too much from
one session to the next, causethat's one of the variables.
You don't push, you know theload too much from one session
to the next, because that's oneof the variables, and so have
you.
Have you done like a focus tostrength?
Speaker 2 (11:26):
training.
You know, push the numbers typeprogram A little bit.
I wouldn't say program, butlike.
So part of the help and thecoaching that I've gotten over
the course of the past 18 monthswas I worked with a trainer so
that I could feel what it feltlike.
Well, first of all I wanted toget like really good form, but I
also wanted to feel what itfelt like to go somewhere I
hadn't been before with someonewatching, because I was scared.
(11:50):
It brings up a lot of fear in meto go to like seven, eight,
nine.
So not a program per se, butI've, I've done, I've had some
rehearsal with what it feelslike to kind of push and get
uncomfortable.
Philip Pape (12:04):
Okay, and now this segues then into the phases.
Because if you're in a fat lossphase, you know a bodybuilding
style program can be greatbecause it's auto-regulated
right, like you can adjust um,you can be, you can push
intensely, even if your strengthisn't necessarily increasing,
and hold on to muscle.
But that that's.
That's.
The goal is to hold on tomuscle, which it sounds like
(12:25):
you've kind of already gonethrough.
That Um, I'm leaning, like foryou more toward maintenance,
recomp, man, maybe musclebuilding.
I know you came with maybe somepreconceived notions like he's
going to tell me to gain Um, andobviously it I don't.
I'm not going to tell me togain Um, and obviously I don't.
I'm not going to force you todo anything, obviously.
But where, where, where theoptions are, are um maintenance
right?
If, if your body fat is in whatyou think of as a healthy range
(12:48):
and your training isprogressing, um, that could be a
really beneficial place to be,because then you can, I'll say,
chase the numbers in the gym.
You can chase the progressionin the gym as your like metric,
and not worry about body weight,body anything really.
Just, yeah, I take bodymeasurements once a week, things
like that, but you can justfocus on the growth and the
(13:09):
energy and the performancewithout pushing yourself to that
level of, like my clothes don'tfit, discomfort, self doubt,
looking in the mirror and butalso not worried about like,
starving yourself to get to it.
I'm not saying that's what youdid, but there are sacrifices in
both directions.
Um, the pros being that youknow the pros of that approach
being you could potentially gainsome muscle with minimal fat
(13:30):
gain.
It's very flexible for yourlife.
You could just live and enjoythe summer which is coming up
right without feelinguncomfortable in a bathing suit.
Uh, if, if you have theoccasional high stress or other
demanding things in your life,it's, it's great Cause you're
energized, right, yeah, thereally only downside it's going
to be a little slower.
The visual changes are slower.
It requires a little morepatience.
Um, I like to track even moreprecisely in maintenance, just
(13:53):
cause it's, you know, sometimeshard to tell what's going on
without doing that, but it's agreat place to be.
So that's one option.
The other option when we talkabout muscle building is if
you're willing to accept alittle bit of fat gain, knowing
that you can really pack on somemore lean tissue so that later
lean phases you can get, say,shredded at a higher body fat,
(14:14):
with more food, with highercalories, with less impact to
your hormones, less negativebiofeedback.
It's a short-term kind oftrade-off for that, right, where
the benefit that you go afterand you focus on is on chasing
the strength and size, and sizein a good way, right, because I
know some people and women youknow chided that thought of
(14:35):
bulkiness.
You upgrade, upregulate yourmetabolism, you know you
potentially eat more food whichhelps you develop that skill of
doing that in a controlled way.
Uh, the cons, of course.
Now you're going to have alittle more fat there and maybe
psychologically run into someissues.
So, having said all this, isthere a place that you're
leaning toward so far, or do weneed to drill in a little bit
(14:57):
more?
Speaker 2 (14:58):
I guess it's one thing I feel a little bit
uncertain about, and maybe thewhole answer is like I've just
never really pushed to a levelof intensity where the muscle
building is really like aliveand well.
So I think that like that is aplace to really put my focus,
like that is something I cancontrol, is like regardless of
(15:22):
you know, we're really onlytalking about like 50 more
calories a week, if I do themath, kind of the way that I
think you counseled priorclients to do um, which is not
significant at all, but thebigger kind of lever it feels
like right now is okay, reallycommitting to the training yes
and if I did that at maintenance, just to see, like, does that
(15:43):
move the needle at all?
And the hypothesis is that alittle bit more food would be
the variable that would likemove the needle a little bit
more.
Um, I still don't entirelyunderstand why that's the case.
If my protein is really high,which it is right now, and I'm
(16:05):
training intensely, what wouldjust a little bit more food do?
Can maybe you address thatpiece, because that would help
me make sense of the deltabetween maintenance and a little
bit more.
Philip Pape (16:16):
Yeah, I mean, I think of the body as a system
and you've got lots ofmechanisms going on, like just
now sitting there, right, youhave so many mechanisms with
your hormones, um, keeping youalive, with your organs.
Organs actually are very hungry.
People don't realize that, andwhen you're at, let's say,
(16:36):
you're at true maintenanceexactly the maintenance you need
you have everything required tomaintain homeostasis and that's
where your body likes to be.
And so if you go into the gymand you hit it hard, your body,
let's say, has to hit a decisionpoint.
Do I devote some of theresources coming in to build
that muscle by sacrificingstorage of energy, which is like
(16:57):
a survival mechanism, or do Ijust, um, maintain what's there
and it's?
And here's the thing there's alot of debates today about
whether maintenance is reallyall you need.
I think what it comes down tois the experienced folks, the
trainers and lifters out therewho are talking about this.
They really know how to stay onthat aggressive side of
(17:17):
maintenance, which is kind oflike.
You mentioned 50 calories.
To me, that's like almostmaintenance, right, even though
you might be more petite and alighter body weight.
That's why your calories needsand now it can go out and give
you um, the, the amino acids youknow, devoted to structural
(17:44):
build, building of the muscles,and and it's a fine threshold.
Because if you, if you're notquite at that threshold, it's
still like maintenance and thenyour body is just kind of
floating.
And if it's well beyond that,you know, the more you go, the
more you're likely to hit thatmaximum.
But then you keep going andyou're going to gain more fat,
right?
That's why we're trying to findthat spot.
So I don't know if thatexplained it for you.
It's, I guess not wellunderstood as the exact
(18:06):
mechanisms.
Why?
Speaker 2 (18:08):
No, but I kind of think about it almost from like
a resources perspective, thatlike when resources are scarce,
obviously your body is going totry to hold on to it.
When resources are justplentiful enough, you're going
to kind of stay as things are.
But you kind of have to moveinto like a little bit more of
this surplus for your body to beable to release and like to
(18:29):
kind of change its focus somehow.
Philip Pape (18:32):
Yeah, it's a prioritization.
And also because you're leaner,you don't have excess energy and
so your body, like the hormonalsignaling, is even more errors
on the side of homeostasis, ofholding onto that energy.
So it's kind of like a slightdisadvantage that leaner folks
have.
Right, if you were overweightor even just a little bit, had a
(18:52):
little bit of extra fat, yourbody would perceive maintenance
as still potentially a surplusbecause of the extra fat storage
you know it's.
It's all just a net energysystem to think of it that way.
So that's why I do like for yousince you basically laid out
your thoughts uh, an aggressivemaintenance which would be like
a lean gain of like uh, 0.15%body weight a week, let's say
(19:16):
around that range which wouldgain very little scale weight
over a meaningful period.
Like you could do it for six tonine months and you're not
talking about a lot of pounds,right.
But you give your body the bestchance to build.
And what's neat about that too,sam, is even though how do I
put this there's a chance forsome recomp as well while you're
doing that, right, meaningbecause you're in that safety
(19:37):
point.
Your body might then releasesome more fat anyway as part of
that process.
So kind of interesting place tobe.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Yeah, okay, um, and then just last question, in
terms of like knowing I'm reallyat maintenance, I'm looking at
my trend weight and so over thecourse of from Jan one to now,
it has fluctuated within fourpounds.
So some weeks it's up, someweeks it's down.
The weeks it's down it's oftendeliberate, it's not accidental.
(20:05):
I'm like, oh, I didn't like thespike from a couple weeks ago.
Let me kind of pull my caloriesdown a bit.
But within that four poundrange, do we tend to think of
maintenance as a range or do wetend to think of maintenance as,
like within a pound, like avery kind of tidy little unit?
Philip Pape (20:24):
No, the former, yeah, the former.
Um, two or three pounds plus orminus is a good.
You know, the lighter you are,the smaller the absolute number,
but, like for most people, it'slike two to three pounds in
either direction.
So you're talking about like asix pound swing.
So you've been a maintenance.
That's what I would say.
If I saw your purple graph,it'd be like kind of right in
(20:46):
that window, right, yeah, yeah,in which case then, a dedicated
lean gain should see a veryslight drift upward over time.
You know, um, the the what.
So here's an interesting, sinceyou've never done this on
purpose, um, one of thechallenges you might run into is
your metabolism responds upwardand you fall behind and you're
actually no longer in aggressivemaintenance, and so you kind of
have to get it and look at yourexpenditure and see how it's
(21:07):
trending.
If it starts to take off likereally steeply, I would usually
advise getting ahead of that byeating more, you know, just to
kind of avoid a plateau, becausethe plateau is just kind of
wasting time.
If you know, just to kind ofavoid a plateau, cause the
plateau is just kind of wastingtime, if you will, at
maintenance.
Um, and then the training side.
This is really up to you.
But, um, if you've never donelike a super meaningful strength
(21:27):
training focus, I would.
I would bias your programtoward that where you have
either full on main lift focusor a hybrid like what they'd
call power building, which ismain lifts with some
bodybuilding but like focused onthe heavier side, especially
when your concern is bonedensity you know you're saying
versus hypertrophy versus justhypertrophy or just like eight
(21:49):
to 12 rep range type stuff, notto say.
I mean, you probably have heardthe science by now.
There's a lot of flex in all ofthat and you could have a
hypertrophy bias.
In a strength program, forexample, you might have one lift
that's a main lift and you youdo it in like an eight to 12 rep
range but then you'll progressover time to like a lower rep
range as it gets heavier and itbecomes strength, but then it
(22:09):
cycles back to the higher reprange as it gets heavy.
Um, you can do more of a pot,power building, which is like
I'm going to do a main lift,heavy, I'm going to do a support
main lift or developmental lift.
So you might do like a squatand then a sumo deadlift and
then two or three bodybuildingstyle, right.
Or you could do just straight upstrength, where it's like I'm
(22:31):
going to do three or four mainlifts and variants of main lifts
, all compound lifts.
You know I'll do a, I'll do asquat, I'll do a sumo, I'll do
an RDL, maybe one bodybuildingsupport thing and call it a day,
but like they're all prettyheavy, right, how do you?
How do you do?
You have a trainer that'sgiving you a program now, or
what are you following?
Speaker 2 (22:50):
No, I'm.
I bought Marcus program and sofollowing it I move every day of
the week, but I'm weightliftingfour days.
It does tend to be the higherrep range stuff which I was
thinking about more like from anaesthetic perspective, looking
like I lift, which is alwayslike a fantasy, but you're
(23:12):
saying from a bone densityperspective, especially thinking
about going heavier and notbeing as hemmed in by those
higher reps.
Philip Pape (23:20):
Yeah, it's.
It's mainly for that, becauseyour strength and function and
bone density is all I think.
I think that's like prioritynumber one.
Did you listen to my recentepisode, strength versus
hypertrophy?
Yeah, I mean, maybe re-listento that Cause, then you kind of
hear the logic and theprogression of it yeah.
Yeah, re-listen to that,because then you kind of hear
the logic and the progression ofit.
(23:41):
Yeah, yeah, re-listen to thatone.
Um it all works, I'll say, Um,but I like efficiency, you know.
Yeah, yeah, Me too.
If you can get super strong, itcan then translate to having
more confidence and higher liftswith your hypertrophy work Also
.
Doing it that way gives youeven more idea of intensity and
training close to failure.
Yeah, Because when it's fivereps for three sets and you can
(24:05):
only do five reps, you're upthere like RPE eight maybe and
you feel it and you know whatit's like.
But it also won't necessarilymake you sore.
But for the first time you doit right, Because the body
adapts quickly and maybelearning to not necessarily
chase soreness but really chasegrowth is the way to go.
(24:26):
Anyway, I think you have a good.
I think you have a good planaggressive maintenance, um,
strength focus.
Obviously, if you need specificresources, I've got plenty.
I can send you some of ourworkout programs or point you to
some trainers that I like forthat Um.
And then, since you're alreadyusing macro factor, you know how
to set that up.
So I think you're golden.
What?
Speaker 2 (24:44):
do you think I feel great.
I mean, I'm just basicallylistening to your podcasts as
like a little coach in my earand trying to make adjustments,
kind of based on what I'mhearing and learning all the
time.
Um, so I'm going to, I'm goingto try this out and I might come
(25:05):
back to you at some point andjust sort of say I think I'm
ready to do more of a build, butI'd like to kind of partner and
have somebody helping me dothat.
Just cause that every time.
You know it's like the firsttime you do anything.
Sometimes it's helpful to havea coach A hundred percent.
Philip Pape (25:16):
There's so many things.
You don't know.
You don't know.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
That's where I like to put it.
Philip Pape (25:20):
So now you're now you're playing offense, now
you've got some good data to getstarted.
I'm really excited for youbecause it's you've got so much
like potential there.
I just know it, I can feel it.
You have a great attitude and Ithink you're you're committed
and you're going to make ithappen.
So awesome, sam.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Okay, awesome Phil.
Thank you, I so appreciate yourtime.
Philip Pape (25:37):
Thanks so much.
You know how to reach me andhave a great day.
Enjoy your time in New York andwe'll talk soon.
Thank you, sounds good, take iteasy.
All right, and that was myrecording with Sam and if you
found value in that, if you wantyour own personalized guidance,
like Sam received for yoursituation, I invite you to go
ahead and book your own free15-minute rapid nutrition
(25:57):
assessment with me.
Don't be shy, I'm a nice guy,I'll make you feel at ease.
It is not a sales pitch.
Basically, it's us talkingabout the thing holding you back
right now, whether it'snutrition, what to do next, your
training, really anything andgive you some targeted,
actionable steps in a fast-paced15 minutes.
(26:18):
So to schedule it, use the linkin the show notes or go to
witsandweightscom and click thebutton at the top.
Again, no sales pitch, justsome guidance from me to you to
help you achieve your goals moreefficiently.
All right, so as we wrap up, Ithink the most exciting thing
about my conversation with Samand hopefully you got that as
well is just focusing on thefundamentals, the pillars right,
progressive overload, propernutrition, consistency with your
(26:40):
habits.
You're gonna transform yourselfwithout anything radical.
You just need to know adirection and then a consistent
plan to get there, knowing therewill be deviations along the
way, and that's totally okay.
Your metabolism's veryadaptable, you're very adaptable
.
So get on that and alsoschedule your call if you think
it'll be helpful.
Until next time, keep usingyour wits lifting those weights
(27:01):
and remember that the mostpowerful fitness tool it's not
in a supplement, it's not in thelatest YouTube workout program.
It is the intelligentapplication of effort where it
matters most.
I'll talk to you next time hereon the Wits and Weights Podcast
.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Intentionally Disturbing
Join me on this podcast as I navigate the murky waters of human behavior, current events, and personal anecdotes through in-depth interviews with incredible people—all served with a generous helping of sarcasm and satire. After years as a forensic and clinical psychologist, I offer a unique interview style and a low tolerance for bullshit, quickly steering conversations toward depth and darkness. I honor the seriousness while also appreciating wit. I’m your guide through the twisted labyrinth of the human psyche, armed with dark humor and biting wit.